IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-04-01

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lcukKotCzarny, ok then, here are the 3d drivers, you get on with nvn ;)
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tsukasa_anyone heard anything about the n800 doing a price drop?00:19
KotCzarnyall thye time00:19
GeneralAntillesIt's not gonna get any lower.00:19
KotCzarnyget them while they're hot!00:20
GeneralAntillesWell, maybe it will if you're not in the US.00:20
GeneralAntillesBut It wont get any lower in the US.00:20
lcukit might do00:21
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GeneralAntillesMuch lower and you hit the "why are we selling these things again?" stage.00:22
rektidebesides gps and keyboard, is there any advantage to the N800?00:22
GeneralAntillesN810, you mean?00:23
rektideadvantage to the N81000:23
rektideyeah pardon00:23
GeneralAntillesTransflective display00:23
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, ya but its a bit pricey for students still00:23
KotCzarnyonly disadvantages00:23
KotCzarnylike n800 has 2 sdhs slots00:23
GeneralAntillesEverything is pricy for students.00:23
lcukwhat, like all their phone models ?   i can pick up old model nokias which were £3-400 new for peanuts now, still brand new mint in the box00:23
KotCzarnyso it's ~ 64gb of flash00:23
GeneralAntillesYour personal budget doesn't determine component costs. ;)00:23
rektideyes the dual SDHC are pushing me towards a N80000:23
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, maybe so but they can die shrink00:23
rektidealso i like bluetooth keyboards more than small integrated ones00:23
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, id be willing to bet they arent at 45nm00:23
GeneralAntillestsukasa_, that doesn't change component costs.00:24
GeneralAntillesOf course they aren't00:24
KotCzarnytsukasa: how about second hand?00:24
KotCzarnyi got mine for 150$00:24
GeneralAntillesOMAP2 will never be at 45nm00:24
tsukasa_hmm maybe00:24
KotCzarnywith screen protectors already00:24
GeneralAntillesThat doesn't change the price of all the other parts.00:24
lcukrektide, i have an 810 AND i have a bt keyboard.  the 810 thumb board is such a relief to have because there will be somewhere you go that needs a board and you KNOW you wont have an extra one all the time00:24
GeneralAntillesThe fullscreen keyboard on the N800 is really quite workable.00:25
lcuki agree its workable, but its distracting00:25
lcukespecially compared to the one just below my screen00:25
KotCzarnywe need transluent osk00:25
KotCzarnythen it would rock00:25
lcukget the pvr working and that stops being a problem :)00:26
KotCzarny1fps will be enough00:26
KotCzarnyfor that00:26
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lcukyou say this, but its not - i type at more than 1 fps, you have to update both the screen in the background, then merge with the actual board00:26
rektidehave we heard any communication about possible use of the PowerVR stuff onboard?00:26
rektidei presume its still totally unutilized00:27
KotCzarnylcuk: then it should include 'type string' field too00:27
lcukyes, we have heard *ERROR: null pointer*00:27
KotCzarnyerm. typed string00:27
rektideyour joke is crude but i think i get the point00:27
lcukbut your 1fps wouldnt work, because i have to merge my string with the background00:28
lcukits the blending that kills it:   to answer blendtec: no it won't blend.00:28
KotCzarnylcuk: have you seen full screen osk mode?00:28
lcukyes i had it on for a while at first00:28
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KotCzarnythen add transluency to it00:28
lcukbefore i abandoned it because it was flakey00:29
KotCzarnythat's my point00:29
KotCzarnyie. i would like osk that:00:29
KotCzarny1/ full screen00:29
KotCzarny2/ thumb friendly00:29
KotCzarny3/ transluent00:30
lcukbut thats the point i am making, to backup a screen full of pixels(desktop) and merge with a screen full of pixels(kb) into the framebuffer takes time00:30
KotCzarny4/ could include 'typed string field' for quick corrections00:30
KotCzarnymay be refreshed at 30fps00:30
KotCzarnyand whole background at 1fps00:30
lcuktry it yourself with a static image00:30
KotCzarnylcuk: i have tried xcompmgr00:31
KotCzarnyit works00:31
lcuktake a screenshot of the standard screen and a screenshot of the keyboard00:31
lcukand use photoshop or whatever00:31
KotCzarnyslow, but ~10fps00:31
lcuklets see how it looks00:31
lcukdoes xcomp work then?00:31
KotCzarnybut slow00:31
KotCzarnybecause of lacking pvr drivers00:31
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KotCzarnyyou don't even have to flash or reboot00:32
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KotCzarnyit's runtime tunable00:32
lcukand does it give effect your after? or is it too slow?00:32
KotCzarnywanna binary?00:32
KotCzarnyyou will test yourself00:32
KotCzarnyit only enables windows shadows00:33
KotCzarnyand probably whole transparency in xomap00:33
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KotCzarnybut i didn't have anything to test it00:33
lcukhang on, i saw something last night00:33
KotCzarnymaybe with cairo i could test00:33
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lcukcairo indeed :)00:36
lcukscroll down there00:36
KotCzarnyi have seen it00:36
lcukthere is an example of clock plugin for maemo desktop00:36
* lcuk knew this conversation sounded familiar00:36
rektidewhat X does os2008 use?00:37
oobquestion - can the n810 use monitor mode on its wireless interface?00:37
lcukmaybe worth a cairo test outside the desktop00:37
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rektidealright, hadnt heard of that one, thanks00:38
lcukoob? monitor mode? you mean display a screen on a monitor or monitor debug output00:38
oobuse, monitor mode as in "kismet." monitor mode as opposed to ad-hoc or managed00:38
lcukahhh ty00:39
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GeneralAntillesI wonder how many people actually want to use kismet for valid research or job-related tasks. <_<00:40
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GeneralAntillesBe nice if the WiMAX model could work in master.00:40
KotCzarnyoob: i guess it's possible00:40
GeneralAntillesMake a neat little WiMAX hotspot.00:40
KotCzarnybecause i have seen util to turn off monitor mode00:40
KotCzarnywithout reboot00:40
oobGeneralAntilles, i do. i legitimately want to use other people's internet connections00:41
oobKotCzarny, thanks00:41
KotCzarnydon't know if you won't have to compile another driver for wlan though00:41
GeneralAntillesThat's never legitimate.00:42
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oobthe "want" is legitimate00:42
lcukyes it is.  just because he has to knock the door down to get access doesnt mean its not legitimate00:43
tsukasa_so wimax has nothing to do with wireless n right? the wimax chip is its own thing and doesnt do backwards compat with n/g/etc00:43
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tsukasa_that sucks00:43
KotCzarnyit's more like gsm00:43
KotCzarnythan wlan00:43
tsukasa_they making a n version of the n810 i hope00:43
lcukdoes it roam?00:43
tsukasa_or 800 actually00:43
GeneralAntillestsukasa_, WiMAX is basically cellular data00:43
lcukis can i use it on the train?00:43
KotCzarnylcuk: probably00:44
GeneralAntillesand/or last-mile data00:44
GeneralAntillesWhy would they make an N version of an old device?00:44
KotCzarnyit has range of ~70km00:44
rektideand its made of rainbows00:44
KotCzarnyso it would take some time between roams00:44
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, not all of us want gps00:44
lcuk_+ built up areas , ymmv00:44
rektidewe'll see what its actual delivery is00:44
lcuknot all of us get it00:44
GeneralAntillestsukasa_, why would they update an OMAP2 device when OMAP3 is coming out?00:44
GeneralAntillesYou can't even saturate G with either device.00:45
rektideWiMAX is slower than G00:45
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, its not about the saturation its about the range00:45
GeneralAntillesrektide, I'd hope so. :P00:45
KotCzarnyG has very short range00:45
rektidethey added it because it was easy to add.00:45
GeneralAntillesMeh, N range isn't all it's cracked up to be.00:45
lcukwimax connected at ANY speed is better than wifi disconnected.00:45
KotCzarnywimax can be fast00:45
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, its a hell of a lot better then G00:46
glasswimax needs a wimax network00:46
KotCzarnyG needs00:46
KotCzarnyG network00:46
rektideyou'd have to redesign the mobo for OMAP3, adding WiMAX was just throwing on another chip00:46
glasswho of you lives in covered area?00:46
glassumts would be better00:46
rektidecovered by what?00:46
glasscovered by wimax00:46
rektideyes, yes it would glass.00:46
KotCzarnyA commonly-held misconception is that WiMAX will deliver 70 Mbit/s over 50 kilometers. In reality, WiMAX can do one or the other \u2014 operating over maximum range (50 km) increases bit error rate and thus must use a lower bitrate. Lowering the range allows a device to operate at higher bitrates.00:46
glasswith umts, i see no need for wimax00:46
glassi'm using umts right now00:46
KotCzarnyso at short ranges it's FASTER than G00:47
GeneralAntillesWiMAX is the holy grail up there.00:47
rektidethe only advantage of wimax is i think you can get infrastructure for public bands.  not so with umts / hspda00:47
GeneralAntillesglass, I agree.00:47
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rektidethe G extensions for 108mbps are fairly intercompatible00:47
KotCzarnyalso, G is fairly crowded00:48
rektidethen again i only use atheros gear so of course they're intercompaitble....00:48
KotCzarnyso you won't max out it00:48
lcukLOCALLY yes, but can you take your G out wherever you are?00:48
KotCzarnyalso wimax band will be probably private00:49
KotCzarnyso you won't have problems with neighbours00:49
lcukThis spec is mooted as a 1Gbit/s version of WiMax,00:49
lcukhmmm Manchester ahead of the game :)00:50
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* lcuk dances cos he can already do wiman00:51
oobbut is it worth the price of living in manchester?00:51
glasstheres a network on the old gsm band here00:51
lcuki admit, thats a terrible drag, but now I am here i might as well make use of it.00:51
glasserr... nmt00:51
glasshorribly expensive service with transfer limits and shit00:52
lcukactually, no its not - Manchester is amazing.  we started the computer revolution.  we have a great uni00:52
lcukwe have ermmm chip shops00:52
lcukand drug dealers00:52
lcukok youre right00:52
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glasslong range, good bw in theory but the cells are so big they get crowded i imagine, so the need for limits00:52
lcukor just use more cells at the higher bandwidth00:53
lcuklarge range/low density will be great for canada type places00:53
lcukshort range high density will be good for city centre00:53
tsukasa_lcuk, canada type places... you mean the middle of nowhere? ;)00:54
lcukwell, you are somewhere but its a long walk into town00:54
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lcukhang on, wimax is microwave.  are we really expected to use microwaves on our laptops/portables?  what happens to our ermmm fixed assets?00:57
GeneralAntillesWiMAX doesn't have a spectrum.00:57
rektidemy biggest interest will be ltanecy00:57
tsukasa_anyone else feel like nokia is just making shit up as they go?00:58
rektideif wimax has better latency than HSDPA that'll be sweet00:58
tsukasa_intel has these nice 5 year roadmaps00:58
tsukasa_nokia its like00:58
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tsukasa_so........ new product....... uhh........ black?00:58
rektideintel doesnt announce consumer products00:58
lcukisnt that how they make their phones?00:58
rektidethey also currently have no competition00:58
tsukasa_rektide, yeah they do00:58
lcukeeny meeny miny mo, which color shall we go00:58
tsukasa_sandy bridge '1000:58
rektidei guess in the mobile world, they're trying to do something now that they sold off their ARM division00:59
* KotCzarny could use black faceplate for n80000:59
lcukspray paint00:59
rektidere-break into the market00:59
KotCzarnythis one is too shiny00:59
GeneralAntillestsukasa_, they have a plan00:59
GeneralAntillesit's just not open00:59
KotCzarnyspray paint is unhealthy00:59
rektidespray paint looks awsome if done right00:59
rektideaka crudely00:59
GeneralAntillesas they aren't trying to sell their stuff to OEMs and developers.00:59
KotCzarnymore like toxic00:59
lcukrubberised matt as well00:59
rektideGA: exactly00:59
GeneralAntillesNokia is selling to consumers, so their plan is closed00:59
GeneralAntillesLike Apple.00:59
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lcukthey sound like cylons00:59
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, you sound like you know someone on the inside01:00
rektideuhhh what?01:00
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, does the letter N mean anything to you?01:00
rektidewhat makes you say that tsukasa?01:00
rektideoh you just want someone to talk about N.  :/01:00
tsukasa_just a guess01:00
GeneralAntillesI know people on the inside01:00
rektidebut why?  you cant even max out a G.01:00
KotCzarnyno kia01:00
tsukasa_rektide, range01:00
GeneralAntillesbut I'm not privy to any privalaged information.01:00
rektidewhat you need is a bluetooth wifi-N adapter.  :)01:01
lcukand the fact that all mobile phone operators are setting up to supply worldwide wimax01:01
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, is the leap from n810 to the next iteration a substantial improvement eg 790 to 80001:01
GeneralAntillesYou'd know them too if you'd been involved with the community as long as I've been.01:01
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, or is it like more of the same01:01
rektideumts is already here, wimax is just a promise01:01
* lcuk didnt know there were nokia ppl lurking01:01
GeneralAntillesLike I said, I'm not privy to anything privileged.01:01
Paavowho's lurking?01:01
glasstsukasa_: nokias roadmaps are in-house01:01
lcukumts needs a sim01:01
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rektidethere's really not that much further the OMAP2 can go.01:02
lcuki suppose wimax will as well01:02
GeneralAntillesThere's no such thing as a "790"01:02
rektidetry 77001:02
tsukasa_thank you01:02
lcuk:) np01:02
KotCzarnynokia has weird policy on device numbering01:02
GeneralAntillesBigger, is my guess.01:02
tsukasa_not as weird as say microsoft01:02
KotCzarnyso we may yet see N12301:02
GeneralAntillesOMAP3 is some hot shit.01:02
KotCzarnyfor example01:02
rektideOMAP3 is pretty sweet.01:02
glassKotCzarny: numbering is just marketing..01:02
tsukasa_xbox 360... what happened to the other 358 models01:02
glassKotCzarny: others have just as weird01:02
tsukasa_thrown out? ;)01:03
KotCzarnyone expects the higher the better01:03
GeneralAntillesThey burnt up in a fire when their power supplies lit up.01:03
tsukasa_haha +101:03
rektidei want to see what Freescale kicks out of their next ARM line.  TI keeps licensing PowerVR, Freescale's gone the ATI Mobility route.01:03
glassKotCzarny: nokia naming conventions arent at least as fucked up as motos01:03
GeneralAntillesNokia at least sticks with numbers.01:03
glassKotCzarny: n and e series are at least symbian, apart from putting n800/n810 in nseries naming too01:04
lcukkot thats not as good as the Wjfr73mcdf01:04
PaavoNokia TBLT!01:04
KotCzarnysay, n800 ?01:04
GeneralAntillestsukasa_, all of my information is just from being involved in the community for a long time.01:04
GeneralAntillesHaha, Paavo.01:04
GeneralAntillesI like it!01:04
lcukpaavo, nokia Toasted BLT :)01:04
glassthen again they got symbian phones, very recent, that are in the just numbers ranger01:04
lcukNokia N series T-BLT '08 :)01:05
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, yeah, i just feel like, nokia is going to announce a very sexy next-gen model which will make the 800 old news01:05
rektideis the N810 any bigger than the N800?01:05
glassand reusing old numbers with 'classic' or 'navigator', thats the biggest suck in nokia naming01:05
lcukopen or closed?01:05
GeneralAntillestsukasa_, do some research on the OMAP343001:05
rektidewell, theres really not much further to take the OMAP2.01:05
rektidethe next release will almost certainly be an OMAP301:05
GeneralAntillesrektide, it's smaller but heavier.01:05
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glassnokias reason for releasing a wimax device would be to have a wimax device in the range01:05
rektidewhich?  the N810 is smaller?01:05
lcukyes, the coolness density has increased :)01:06
KotCzarnyin europe it's april first already01:06
rektidethats unexpected.01:06
glassnot any other reason01:06
GeneralAntillesOr the fail01:06
Paavowell, 3110 and 6110 are old enough numbers to recycle01:06
* lcuk slides01:06
KotCzarnylet's check nokia.com01:06
GeneralAntillesdepending on your point of view.01:06
rektidei would've thoght the keyboard had made it considerably thicker01:06
GeneralAntillesThinner, actually.01:06
glassPaavo: if people werent using them still... but they are :)01:06
Paavobesides, they were running out of numbers really01:06
GeneralAntillesThat's part of the reason we lost the twin cardslots.01:06
lcukrek, reshaping means the camera popout gone - its all square now01:06
lcukthe 800 had a fat bit01:06
GeneralAntillesThe N810 is really packed in there.01:06
glassPaavo: i'd rather have them put the s40 in some other naming range and s60's in one01:06
lcuka big bum01:06
rektidedamnit now i'm conflicked01:06
KotCzarnysquare camera takes square photos?01:06
GeneralAntillesI'd get the N800, personally.01:07
lcuksnowy square photos01:07
rektidehow do the cameras compare N800 v. N810?01:07
rektidethe dual SD are very very tempting01:07
GeneralAntillesThe price hike with the N810 isn't worth it to me.01:07
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KotCzarnyrektide: same sh*t01:07
GeneralAntillesBoth suck, rektide.01:07
Paavoah yes, 1st of april. must remember that.01:07
GeneralAntillesThe N800's can move around, though.01:07
tsukasa_TI processors... meh.01:07
rektidefuck micro-sd01:07
tsukasa_they should stick VIAs new processor in it01:07
lcukpaavo? not yet and you must know the models01:07
KotCzarnyn820 should include a flash01:07
GeneralAntillesScrew that shit01:07
rektidethere are better ARM than TI's OMAP.01:07
GeneralAntillesTI's the best in the range.01:07
KotCzarnyie. photo flash01:07
Paavolcuk: it is in my timezone01:07
tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, have you read about VIAs new chip?01:07
tsukasa_so why do you think TI is better?01:08
GeneralAntillesMobile x86 does not impress me.01:08
rektideMarvell's new ARM >> OMAP but more power hungry.  I like Freescale best for mobile but its pretyt on par with TI.01:08
lcukpaavo :) not for another hour here01:08
rektideMobile x86 is a terrible idea01:08
KotCzarnyah, relativity01:08
GeneralAntillestsukasa_, simply put, because they are. ;)01:08
lcuki wouldnt like 8601:08
* lcuk spits on the assembly01:08
glassrektide: well, for small windows running laptops it's not..   for anything else, probably yes01:08
* lcuk hugs omap01:08
tsukasa_cellphones/smartphones are just small laptops though01:09
lcuki would like to see multicore niceness01:09
KotCzarnynot true01:09
glassbut not windows running01:09
rektidesomeday tsukasa.  thast the dream.01:09
KotCzarnyusability is different01:09
lcukmy 810 is a small laptop01:09
rektidelcuk: nintendo DS is multicore.01:09
GeneralAntillesPower consumption is a very important part of what makes the NITs work.01:09
lcukmmmmmmmmm rektide01:09
rektideand the DS is 5 years old01:09
GeneralAntillesMobile x86 would not fit the power requirements.01:09
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KotCzarnylcuk: lapalmtop01:10
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tsukasa_GeneralAntilles, i dont know about that, Intels Atom processor takes what? 3W?01:10
rektidethe only thing holding ARM back right now is the display subsystems01:10
rektideand thats about to change01:10
GeneralAntillesTI's talking 2009 for dual-core A9s01:10
GeneralAntillesLot more than the OMAP SoCs.01:10
rektideARM would make a fine computer, but the best output you'll get is 1280x1024 with shite performance.01:10
rektideupgrade the graphics side of ARM and ARM will make awsome portable computers01:10
Paavohow much power did they get out of those nuclear batteries anyway? that would provide a decent battery life.01:10
KotCzarnyrektide: my laptop is 1024x76801:10
glass"graphics side of arm" ?01:10
rektideyour laptop is crap.  ;)01:10
glass"of arm platforms"01:11
KotCzarnynope it isn't01:11
KotCzarnyibm x32 ;)01:11
glasswhat gpu's do those arm desktopts have?01:11
rektidei dont know of any ARM desktops atm01:11
KotCzarnyput your n8x0 on the deks01:11
rektidebut next gen ARMs have some very impressive graphics subsystems tacked on01:11
KotCzarnydektop arm01:11
rektideAMD/ATI and PowerVR have licensed out some pretty nice OpenGL 2.0 silicon IP,01:12
glassrektide: i seem to remember that there were some01:12
GeneralAntillesOMAP3'll put all of our graphics issues to bed.01:12
rektidethe only real question is if there will be enough bandwidth to power 1920x1200.01:12
rektideOmap3 went PowerVR again, right?01:12
* KotCzarny shrugs01:12
jottGeneralAntilles: omap3 + crappy lcd controller - we know our NIT engineers :P01:13
GeneralAntillesWhy would they?01:13
GeneralAntillesThe built-in controller supports 800x480 just fine01:13
rektidejott is too right, even if i dont know who NIT is01:13
GeneralAntillesThey could go 1024x600 just fine, even.01:13
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glassthe built in chip in n95/e90 does pretty good looking stuff already01:13
rektidehave you owned a P1000 perchance GeneralAntilles?01:13
jottGeneralAntilles: still i bet they mess up something ;)01:13
rektideglass: but the resolution is low enough to make that easy.01:13
GeneralAntillesNever heard of it, rektide.01:14
KotCzarnyglass: n95 has the SAME pvr chip as n8x001:14
KotCzarnythe only difference is support01:14
rektidemost of the Fujitsu P1000 laptops run 1024x600.  Mine's an 800 mhz crusoe, 8.9" touchscreen.01:14
KotCzarnyno driver for tablets01:14
glassKotCzarny: yeah01:14
rektidei did not know that Kot.01:14
glassrektide: you know e90's inner screen?01:14
glassrektide: obviously not01:14
rektideno we just have a stack of N95's here at work01:15
KotCzarnydifferent os01:15
glassit's got accelerated video decoding too01:16
glassvery nice01:16
rektidethats an insane resolution01:16
rektidei want a samsung NV24 HD.01:16
rektideits a point and shoot camera that does 720P video recording with H264.01:16
GeneralAntillesIVA2, baby.01:16
GeneralAntillesThat shit will scream. :D01:16
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rektideits all about to change.  :p01:17
rektideits definitely a game changer01:17
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rektideiphone has it but i hate the iphone01:19
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rektidethey actually have a sweet implementation, given the absolutely crap hardware it runs on01:19
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glassiphones mhz is way higher though no?01:19
rektidethey use LLVM to optimize the fuck out of software opengl01:19
KotCzarnyyeah, software is the other 50% of good device01:19
rektidebut most of the speed comes from the compiler tricks they use to accelerate opengl01:20
rektideits very very intelligent01:20
rektidebut again, all the next gen solutions are going ot have onboard silicon dedicated to opengl01:20
rektidethats where it starts becoming game changing01:20
KotCzarnyaren't they have it already?01:20
glassonly very few nokia phones have hw 3d accel now01:21
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glassn96 again doesn't01:21
rektidethats definitely not opengl2.0 compliant.  it can accelerate some 3d calculations, but its way way way way short of a full 3d pipeline01:21
glassopengl es is common01:21
rektideyes but its usually just done in software on the CPU, sometimes with a coprocessor to accelerate some 3d math.01:21
glassit's usually fully sw01:22
rektideand thats whats changing01:22
KotCzarnytransparency acceleration will be enough for shiny factor01:22
rektidethe one thing that makes me sad is that the OpenGL ES libraries to accelerate SVG are either crazy expensive or really primitive.  we need better vector art acceleration too.01:23
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rektidethe day Macromedia puts out opengl es accelerated flash is the day i consider installing it.01:23
KotCzarny |> Holly Dolly - Dolly Song.avi01:24
glassthe new firmware for n95 has youtube videos working in the browser01:25
glassbeen out for couple of days01:25
KotCzarnywe have that already on n8x0 ?01:25
glassjust making conversation of flash on mobiles :)01:26
rektidewe can compare the pvr v. non-pvr accelerated versions01:26
rektide(assuming the pvr is in use on the n95 for this)01:26
glassdunno if it uses any accels01:26
KotCzarnyit is01:26
glassi havent installed the new fw's01:26
rektideyeah i understand theres an entire output stage on the pvr01:26
glassi'd need more n95's01:26
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rektidetheres 6 at work here, one devel has 3 of them though.01:27
glassit's rap that you can't easily downgrade the fw01:27
dtahtbotglass: Error: "c" is not a valid command.01:27
rektidewas the +c intentional?  what does it mean?01:28
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: rap01:28
rektidelol, wow.01:28
rektidethanks bot01:28
GeneralAntillesSED bot to the rescue!01:28
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GeneralAntilles~lart infobot01:28
* infobot rm -rf's generalantilles01:28
rektideif you dont know perl regex you just dont know jack01:28
rektidei kid i kid01:29
GeneralAntillesToo bad infobot doesn't have the right permissions for me.01:29
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rektidei wonder how many xkcd comics arent understood01:30
GeneralAntillesDepends on who reads them.01:30
rektidejust net total01:30
rektidei think that'd be itneresting01:30
KotCzarnynot really01:30
rektide30,000,000 page views made no sense to the reader01:30
KotCzarnyit will mean only how many people used some kind of *nix01:30
rektidethey all make sense to me but i'm a hardcore geek programmer01:31
rektidebut theres enough catchy ones that it must have a non *nix audience too by now01:31
KotCzarnyrektide: and there's title tag to the rescue01:31
KotCzarnyif joke isn't clear at the first sight01:32
rektideits so sad but so necessary that title tag instructions hae to be repeated with every single reference to xkcd01:32
rektidehey i never noticed the title tag is the "so, you missed the joke in the panels" portion01:33
KotCzarnynot really01:33
KotCzarnyit's a part of the joke sometimes01:33
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KotCzarnyscratch that01:33
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KotCzarnyi agree01:33
rektidestupid firefox is truncating my title tags.01:33
KotCzarnyand read again01:34
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rektidei normally read with opera, just using firefox for dev work01:34
KotCzarnyyou can read whole tag in properties01:34
rektideand err some errant IRC inspired shtuff01:34
rektidei'd rather view source than mouse to properties.  :/01:34
KotCzarnyit all depends on toolbar buttons01:35
rektideanyone know any good high resolution webcams?01:35
rektidei'm looking for greater than 640x480@30fps01:35
rektidea 640x480@60fps would be badass though01:36
rektideor just higher resolution01:36
KotCzarnyhmm, buy a camera01:36
GeneralAntillesrektide, buy a DV cam and plug it in. :P01:36
rektidewaiting for the Samsung NV24 HD, 720P H264 point and shoot camera.01:36
rektidethats gonna kick ass01:36
rektidebut i'd like a couple $70 webcams too, get a small video capture matrix going01:37
jottrektide: the philips one do 90fps01:37
rektidetell me more!01:37
rektidewhat camera?01:38
KotCzarnyjott: link ?01:38
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rektidehmmmm ccd based i like01:38
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rektidevery nice jott tyvm01:39
jottits used by many hobby astronomers :)01:39
rektidei wouldnt think that marginal fps boost would necessarily correspond to higher sensitivity01:39
KotCzarnydoes it run on linux?01:39
rektideeven though the old Philip Toucam's ROCKED THE HOUSE01:40
rektidei ordered 6 of them for $300, they shipped from Asia, and one of my roomates girlfriend, when the UPS guy came, said "rektide who?" to the guy.01:40
rektidethat fucking bitch01:40
jottshould work afaik.. a friend of mine recommended it but i think he uses win .. i don't have it so i can't say for sure how good the support is01:40
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rektidenever saw the $300 or cameras again01:41
rektidethis was back in college, like 4 years ago01:41
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rektidegod damn i wanted to choke a bitch01:41
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KotCzarnynot worth 300$01:41
GeneralAntillesWomen. . . .01:41
KotCzarnybut you can play practical jokes on her01:42
jott hm :)01:42
rektidewhat a dumb bitch though01:42
rektideyou dont know who lives in the house yet you deny packages from ups?01:42
jottlooks like it is supported :)01:42
KotCzarnypaid already01:42
KotCzarnythat is01:42
rektideoverseas packages01:42
rektidei always thought the toucam was a fluke, that philips accidentally made a really sweet camera01:44
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rektidethan the spc900nc also kicks ass is rather impressive01:44
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rektideFUCK the spc900nc webcam was $25 on woot three weeks ago!  v. $70 now.01:49
rektidei would've built the greatest camera array ever01:49
GeneralAntillesDon't you hate woot? :P01:49
rektideme?  why?  not as far as i know?01:50
GeneralAntillesI always miss the deals01:50
GeneralAntillesor pass up on really great stuff that I only notice is great later01:50
GeneralAntillesor don't have the cash01:51
GeneralAntillesIt frustrates me. :(01:51
rektideyeah i used to track it in RSS and never saw a damned thing i wanted01:51
rektidewe need some kind of reverse aggregator, a social/community woot filter01:51
GeneralAntillesI did get a 770 once, though.01:51
rektidethat only feeds things that dont suck01:51
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rektidethey had the internets when the 770 was released?  ;P01:52
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GeneralAntillesIt was only 2005. :P01:52
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rektideso the n8x0 usb ports are unusable with the stand retracted?01:55
KotCzarnyn800 has them on the side01:55
KotCzarnybut the stand covers them..01:56
rektidesame for the n810, no?01:56
KotCzarnyi have only n80001:56
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I've never found it to be an issue.01:56
rektidei'm a USB madman01:56
rektidei bought 10 openwrt wireless routers cause they had usb 2.001:56
KotCzarnyyou can unscrew stand01:57
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rektidei figured it was removable but it'd also often be convenient to have01:57
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rektideanyone seen a GP2X irl?01:58
rektide(its a pretty nifty touchscreen dual-core ARM unit aimed at gamers)01:59
GeneralAntillesNavi has.01:59
rektidei will idle here and stalk him01:59
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NaviGod damn.01:59
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GeneralAntillesYou got highlight.02:00
GeneralAntillesTake that!02:00
GeneralAntillesrektide, you familiar with the Pandora.02:00
GeneralAntillesAlso, GP2X wasn't dual-core02:00
GeneralAntillesIt was dual-CPU02:00
rektidehi navi02:01
rektideGA, what do you see as the distinction between dual core and dual cpu?02:01
rektidehow bad was the AA battery comparment on the GP2X?  otherwise its a good bit smaller than the N8x0, right?02:01
GeneralAntillesDual-core implies they're both on the same piece of silicon.02:01
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Dual-core means they're both on the same piece of silicon.02:02
GeneralAntillesLike the Core 2 Duo02:02
rektidethey are on the same die.02:02
rektidethey're in the same package, i dunno if they're on the same die.02:02
GeneralAntillesThey aren't. :P02:02
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rektidewasnt Core Duo two separate CPU's in the same package?02:03
GeneralAntillesIt's dual-core02:03
rektidei must just be thinking of the quad cores, which are two dual cores in a package.02:03
rektide(the new ones aside)02:03
NaviThe Pentium Ds were two dies in one, as are the quad cores02:03
GeneralAntillesquad-cores are just like dual-cores02:03
rektideyeah i was pretty sure there was an old dual core with two dies02:04
GeneralAntillesdual dual-cores are what you mean.02:04
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rektidedual dual-cores == two dual cores02:05
rektidesame deal02:05
rektideNavi, can you profer any kind of comparison between the GP2X and the N8x0?02:05
glasssome nokia phones have dual cpu but the other is just for network stack and shit02:07
NaviOne's a gaming machine and one's an internet tablet02:07
rektidewhat of form factor?02:08
KotCzarnyomap is dual core too02:08
rektidei think i forgot that Kot02:08
KotCzarnybut cores are little different02:08
KotCzarnydsp one is specialized02:08
rektidethey're asymetric on the GP2X as well02:08
rektideand the Nintendo DS02:08
rektidei cant think of any ARM with symetric dual core02:08
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rektidewhat is that on?02:30
infobotrektide meant: what is that about?02:30
KotCzarny'Cops Bust a (Root) Beer Kegger Party (+video) '02:31
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pupnikwe've got a dsp on the tablets but it's too much work for normal mortals to use it02:48
GeneralAntillesBe nice if TI would open it up.02:48
KotCzarnyit's open02:49
KotCzarnydocs are available02:49
KotCzarnyeven compiler02:49
pupniklardman explained that something was missing but i forgot what02:49
KotCzarnyi love learning new thngs from /. comments02:50
* lcuk posted in there02:50
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blahdeblah-lapAre openssh dependencies broken for anyone else around here?  I tried to update to 1:4.7p1-2.maemo2 just now, and it tells me that openssh-common 1:4.6p1-5.maemo3 is a missing dependency.03:06
KotCzarnyinstall by hand?03:07
GeneralAntillesUninstall and try again.03:07
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blahdeblah-lapWill that lose my passwords?03:07
blahdeblah-lapOK - will try it.03:08
blahdeblah-lapWeird - apt-get install openssh-client works just fine.03:09
blahdeblah-lapWhat's the deal there?03:09
blahdeblah-lap(Didn't even need to uninstall.)03:09
KotCzarnyapp-manager is buggy03:09
blahdeblah-lapWonderful.  Should i submit or vote for a bug?03:09
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KotCzarnyif the bug is repeatable03:10
KotCzarnyotherwise it may be anything from solar spots03:10
KotCzarnyto user incompetence03:10
blahdeblah-lapKotCzarny: Are you saying i'm no good at pressing the update button?03:10
blahdeblah-lapI didn't think it took any skills...  ;-)03:10
KotCzarnybut to know why that is happening03:11
KotCzarnydevs must know how to reproduce it03:11
GeneralAntillesThere's nothing to submit against.03:11
KotCzarnyand you may have new/old packages03:11
KotCzarnyor weird combination of them03:11
GeneralAntillesUnless you count the openssh garage page, though, I suppose.03:11
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blahdeblah-lapGiven that NOKIA STILL CAN'T FIX THE MAEMO EXTRAS REPOSITORY FOR ALL GEOGRAPHIC LOCATIONS, it's not unlikely that my repos were out of date.03:12
blahdeblah-lap(Sorry about that - just letting off some steam)03:12
KotCzarnyno problem03:12
lcukchange takes time03:12
KotCzarnywe are here for you03:12
NaviWhat's everyone's favorite media player for the N800 in terms of design (not including Canola and Mediabox)03:12
blahdeblah-lapKotCzarny: Gee - thanks03:12
blahdeblah-lapNavi: They're all bad.03:12
NaviThen what do you like?03:13
KotCzarnyxmms and playfilelist03:13
blahdeblah-lapNavi: amarok :-)03:13
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blahdeblah-lapNavi: Kagu is my current choice on maemo because it supports scrobbling, but the interface is terrible and it has some annoying bugs (like restarting playback when you add songs to the now playing list, and maximising the volume for a split second when you unpause it).03:15
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blahdeblah-lapNavi: It's not funny when you're trying to go to sleep.  ;-)03:19
KotCzarnyuse xmms03:19
Naviblahdeblah-lap, sure it is :)03:20
blahdeblah-lapKotCzarny: on maemo?03:20
blahdeblah-lapDoes it scrobble?03:20
blahdeblah-lapIf you're not an addict, you won't understand.03:20
Jitenwhat? you can'y scrobble if you aren't addicted to it somehow?03:21
KotCzarnyie. 'probably i'm not an addict'03:21
KotCzarnybut there is xmms-ctrl03:22
KotCzarnyso writing a script to do it shouldn't be too hard03:22
lcddi had to ditch xmms because audioscrobble plugin tends to crash it03:22
blahdeblah-lapJiten: No, but scrobbling is mandatory for a music play for me now03:22
blahdeblah-laplcdd: Disappointing to hear.03:22
KotCzarnyblah: how exactly it works?03:23
KotCzarnysimple 'get track name, save it somewhere' ?03:23
lcddaudacious works almost as a drop-in replacement, though. and as a extra it supports evdev events from my tv remote03:23
blahdeblah-lapKotCzarny: You submit your tracks to their web site, then you can view stats, similar artists, join groups, etc.03:23
KotCzarnywith or without user interaction?03:23
blahdeblah-lapyou submit tracks without user interaction03:23
blahdeblah-lapYour music player does it for you03:23
KotCzarnyi think it's doable in a python03:24
KotCzarnyor even in bash03:24
KotCzarnyusing xmms-control03:24
lcddyeah, shouldn't be too hard03:24
KotCzarnyin fact writing standalone scrobbler would be even better03:24
KotCzarnythat will interact with any player03:24
blahdeblah-lapKotCzarny: maemo scrobbler does that - the player just has to submit a couple of dbus messages03:26
KotCzarnyblah: nice03:26
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blahdeblah-lapKotCzarny: Where is xmms for maemo?  I can't find it in app manager or searching maemo.org03:32
KotCzarnyi have compiled one myslef03:32
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KotCzarnyif you don't mind software from strangers i can give you the link03:32
blahdeblah-lapMaybe another day - gotta go.03:33
KotCzarnyhi pupnik03:33
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nwidger_what's the easiest way to play a wav/mp3 file in a maemo app?  like what libraries or whatever to use?03:38
KotCzarnygstreamer ?03:38
nwidger_KotCzarny: cool... i just want a hardcoded sound file to play when i press a gtkbutton03:39
nwidger_so the simplest solution would probably be the best03:39
KotCzarnyesdplay ?03:40
KotCzarnymplayer ?03:40
KotCzarnymaybe there's framework for sound too03:40
KotCzarnyin hildon03:40
nwidger_the tutorials dont mentions it anywhere03:40
KotCzarnybut i think gstreamer will be easy03:40
nwidger_ill give it a shot03:40
KotCzarnyyou don't want to control the play?03:41
KotCzarnyjust 'fire and forget' ?03:41
nwidger_well here's my app:03:41
KotCzarnyok, gstreamer then03:41
nwidger_i drum on the table a lot03:41
nwidger_using my fingers03:41
nwidger_so i want to do the same on the tablet03:41
KotCzarnybtw. check out pyano03:41
nwidger_but each finger would make a different sound play each time i hit it03:41
KotCzarnyit's a simple piano emulator03:42
nwidger_like snare, bass, cymbol, etc03:42
KotCzarnyto play with thumbs03:42
KotCzarnyand using samples03:42
nwidger_yeah basically03:42
nwidger_but like a drumset03:42
KotCzarnyjust a different sample set03:42
nwidger_yes :)03:42
lcukand variable circular drum layout and sizing :)03:42
KotCzarnyyou may try some midi interaction too03:42
KotCzarnywith timidity03:42
lcukpressure sensitive03:43
lcukharder press = louder03:43
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nwidger_lcuk: is the n810's screen pressure sensitive?03:43
KotCzarnyn800 too03:43
* lcuk wonders what the bres circle algoyithm looks like03:43
nwidger_cool, didnt know that03:43
KotCzarnynew day, new knowledge03:43
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nwidger_yeah so ive never programmed on maemo03:44
KotCzarnydo you know python?03:44
WorkingOnWise if I install KDE on my tablet, is there some way to switch between KDE and the default DE on an N800?03:44
nwidger_KotCzarny: no but i can learn it03:44
nwidger_i've been using c and gtk03:44
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lcukget hold of a program called maemopad+ and there is a pressure option03:44
KotCzarnynwidger: it's very simple to write pygtk apps03:44
KotCzarnyif you know gtk already03:44
nwidger_lcuk: sure, ill check it out03:44
lcukthere are lots of examples around and you can perform easy actions on single button press03:45
lcukand because you dont have to compile it, you can edit directly on 810 and play and make better03:45
nwidger_i thought it would be cool if there was a configuration option to position different buttons on the screen each with its own sample, so that it would work best with your left/right-handedness and finger size03:45
KotCzarnygtk supports dragging buttons too03:45
lcukthere is another program called PyGTKEditor which lets you edit and test python applications on maemo :)03:45
Zetx|What are the chances it's not a hardware issue if I've reflashed twice and my touchscreen still has the same problem? :|03:46
lcukim drumming on my keyboard now and know exactly what you mean03:46
lcukwhats the problem Zetx|03:46
KotCzarnyzetx: have you seen n800 power on drama thread?03:46
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Zetx|oh, it's not that03:46
NaviZetx|, someone else complains about that problem in a different channel03:47
KotCzarnybtw. what is the problem?03:47
Zetx|it's my touchscreen, sometimes when i tap around the middle of my screen it thinks i'm tapping at the left side (it hits the application menu)03:47
KotCzarnyah, yes03:47
KotCzarnyknown problem03:47
nwidger_lcuk: the only down side is that the screen can't register multiple touches at the same time i'm guessing, so no bass+cymbal crashes :(03:47
Zetx|and i've tried calibrating03:47
KotCzarnymy guess it's just bad software03:47
Zetx|it's just a difficult thing to search on 'touchscreen' is gonna get alot of hits ;p03:47
KotCzarnythat doesn't filter out those bad data03:47
lcuknwidger_, i dont think its as bad as you think03:47
Zetx|i guess i'll try a different firmware then03:48
nwidger_lcuk: the screen has multitouch capabilities?03:48
KotCzarnyzetx, no03:48
KotCzarnyit's not solved03:48
KotCzarnyeven with latest03:48
Zetx|so -everybody- has that issue? :|03:49
KotCzarnybut you can resolve it a littly by dragging menu to the right part of the screen03:49
lcukZetx|, return to nokia, that sounds like a busted screen - ive seen it happen to many nintendo DSs cos they get lots of abuse, with nokias similar fault is plausable though they are generally better treated03:49
KotCzarnylcuk: but it's intermittent03:50
KotCzarnymost of the time taps are correct03:50
lcukif your screen is touching where you arent thats because either something is trapped under the left hand side of screen03:50
Zetx|KotCzarny, do you have a link to the issue? like a filed bug or something?03:50
KotCzarnyonly sometimes they go with x=003:50
KotCzarnyzetx: nope03:50
lcuki had  a whole discussion about this with a guy fairly recently i got test screenshots and everything03:50
lcuklemme find link03:50
nwidger_lcuk: can you explain what you meant by 'i dont think its as bad as you think'?03:51
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WorkingOnWiseif I install KDE on my tablet, is there some way to switch between KDE and the default DE on an N800?03:51
lcukthe screen is usable as a touch screen isnt it?03:51
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lcddKotCzarny: which menu is draggable?03:51
KotCzarnylcdd: navbar03:51
nwidger_lcuk: yes of course03:52
lcukit was johnx!03:52
lcukwhen he tapped somewhere it went somewhere else, but at some parts of his screen it was ok.  it worked perfectly until he said it heats up03:52
lcukonce it does it occurs more03:52
nwidger_lcuk: but if i touch the screen in two places at the same time, it will only register one of them, correct?03:52
Zetx|to me, it feels like if i angle the stylus some more, it does it more often, but that might just be me03:52
lcukyes nw03:53
GeneralAntillesnwidger_, it registers an average of the two.03:53
lcukcheck for bits caught under the lip03:53
nwidger_GeneralAntilles: like, the average of the two coordinates?03:53
lcukive thought about interpolating and trying to keep track of multiple03:54
lcukbut it never got more than that03:54
lcddKotCzarny: that is awesome. i'm left-handed and the menu has been bugging me. where do i poke to drag it?03:54
KotCzarnylcdd: you need randr enabled kernel & xomap03:54
KotCzarnyit gets enabled after first rotation03:54
KotCzarnyit can even be draggod to the top or bottom03:55
lcukdamn, thats a killer feature03:55
KotCzarnythen you just drag it03:55
lcddKotCzarny: okay. will look into it03:55
KotCzarnyas a taskbar in windows03:55
lcukwhy didnt you shout that as a reason to put r&r on ;)03:55
KotCzarnybecause i didn't know about03:55
KotCzarnyit03:55 isnt it03:55
KotCzarnythen someone told me that's draggable03:55
lcukwhats folder?03:56
lcukcan you remember03:56
KotCzarnyit's most usefull in portrait mode03:56
KotCzarnyto get more width for app03:56
KotCzarnyand it can even be dragged out of the screen ;)03:57
lcukgonna try and put it on now.  it might even help simplicity for my prog :)03:57
lcukactually, no im not03:58
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KotCzarnyit would be good to find out how to cause it programatically03:58
* lcuk just saw the time03:58
KotCzarnywhat time?03:58
KotCzarnybarely 21 ;)03:58
lcukwork in 603:58
KotCzarnygood night then03:59
lcukbug me tomorrow ;) i really want it on03:59
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KotCzarnyget your nokia to the work ;)03:59
lcuknahhh i dont like moving it until i am happy showing it off03:59
nwidger_why is it that every library ever takes like 250 lines just to do the simplest thing03:59
lcukbecause they arent you're library.  write everything once and you have your own library :)04:00
lcukwrite it the way YOU want it.04:00
KotCzarnyor just hide initialization in your sublib04:00
nwidger_i just want to say play(sound.wav) but it's never going to be that easy04:00
* lcuk does a mix of both04:00
nwidger_yeah the second is probably what's going to happen04:01
KotCzarnynwidger: ever heard about system() ?04:01
lcukim taking entire folders with half the core code and shotting off in another direction04:01
lcuknwidger_, look at source of pypiano :) its all there04:01
nwidger_KotCzarny: haha04:01
nwidger_im not that dirty04:01
nwidger_lcuk: link?04:02
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KotCzarnybut it's the simplest way to do what you want04:02
KotCzarnylccuk: it's pyano ;)04:02
lcukgood point04:02
KotCzarnyvery clever name04:02
nwidger_lcuk: excellent04:02
lcukand since its python you can edit it and play and put your own samples there (I assume)04:03
KotCzarnyhuh, nwidger: i told you to look at the pyano :)04:03
nwidger_.debs dont usually contain the source do they?04:03
nwidger_KotCzarny: oh, sorry.  thank you :)04:03
KotCzarnynp :)04:03
lcuknwidger_, in this case, they do - it is written in python.  this is a parsed language and is not compiled04:04
nwidger_oh shit yeah04:04
nwidger_im an idiot04:04
lcuknot at all :)  you are a person on a journey :)04:04
nwidger_it's all about the journey04:04
KotCzarnyfirefox ?04:05
lcukim on 1104:05
KotCzarnyi'm on .1204:05
lcuklol - i disabled updates after they got in my way04:06
KotCzarnyand it's out for 3 weeks already04:06
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KotCzarnyi have mine packaged into cramfs ;)04:06
nwidger_i thought .deb files where gzip'd04:06
KotCzarnynwidger: inside04:06
KotCzarny.deb is an ar archive04:06
KotCzarnycontaining actual .tar.gz04:06
KotCzarnyand some control info04:06
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nwidger_ah okay04:07
lcuk(and a bit of magic)04:07
nwidger_im just trying to crack is open instead of install it04:07
KotCzarnyar x some.deb04:07
nwidger_man pages are useful :)04:07
lcuknothing better on the nokia than to try it yourself, see if you think its worth continuing with your drum idea04:07
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nwidger_well it shouldnt be that hard04:08
KotCzarnybut maybe i should go strainght to 3.x04:08
nwidger_i knew the trickiest part would be playing sound04:08
KotCzarnynwidger: you can use mplayer in -slave mode too04:08
KotCzarnythen just popen and send commands04:08
nwidger_ill keep that in mind04:09
KotCzarnybut the best way would be to compile timidity04:09
KotCzarnyand start it in server mode04:09
KotCzarnythen it's just midi04:09
KotCzarnyyou know about midi i presume04:09
nwidger_i grew up listening to videogame music in the 90s on the internet :P04:11
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KotCzarny.mods ftw!04:11
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lcuki grew up listening to real videogame music in the 80's on a spectrum and amiga and c6404:12
nwidger_those are good too04:12
nwidger_lcuk: old man :P04:12
nwidger_i wish i grew up with amiga and c6404:12
* KotCzarny went atari/amiga way04:12
nwidger_oldest thing i had was a coleco adam with donkey kong04:13
KotCzarnyand a little bit of timex04:13
lcukamiga ruled :) this nokia reminds me so much of it - with its custom chipset - the cpu, the dsp and the pvr (when online..) it will rock04:13
KotCzarnylcuk: btw. have you considered how pvr will effect battery life?04:13
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KotCzarnyarm can power down parts of the chip04:14
KotCzarny3d chip04:14
lcuki dont care about battery - if i have to keep it plugged in i will04:14
lcuki doubt it will be any worse than running the dsp at same time04:14
KotCzarnydsp will run too04:14
nwidger_does the n810 have a pvr chip?04:15
lcuki could quite happily live in silece on the desktop so that its crisp04:15
lcukyes and we can't use it at the moment because we have no driver04:15
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lcukits a long and drawn out thing and it pisses me off no end and i so wanna use it cos the amount of dreamy effects we could do would be amazing04:15
* lcuk stomps to his room04:16
nwidger_lcuk: try not to wet yourself04:16
lcuk:) i dont it just riles me occasionally04:16
myreni cant tell whether nokia is just too cheap to license pvr, too lazy to build a driver, too concerned about how to do open source for the driver04:17
monkeyiqanyone else here use WPA2 with their n810?04:18
* KotCzarny uses WEP04:18
GeneralAntillesI'm sure the result of the cost benefit analysis was bad.04:18
lcukor whether there is a technical reason why its use has not been sanctioned?04:18
GeneralAntillesIt wont be able to do fast graphics at full resolution.04:18
lcuki wonder if its the fear of ngage software piracy?04:18
GeneralAntillesThere could also be complicated technical issues.04:19
GeneralAntilleslcuk, no way.04:19
KotCzarnylcuk: there was one thread that nokia said 'the chip won't benefit us'04:19
lcukwhy not, its compatible hardware04:19
KotCzarnybecause of lack of vram04:19
myrenahhhh right forgot that04:19
monkeyiqKotCzarny; hmm, can you get >0.5Mb/sec download over WEP?04:19
lcukno, dont forget that - its VERY easy to give the lcd any resolution it wants04:19
KotCzarnymonkeyiq: mbit or MB ?04:20
lcukwe can supply the lcd correctly at (for instance) 400*240 and it will display it at fullscreen04:20
KotCzarnylet me test04:20
lcukthe same occurs on any resolution04:20
monkeyiqI get about that even downloading from a local http:// with wget04:20
GeneralAntilleslcuk, sure, but that's suboptimal.04:20
monkeyiqI suspect that WPA2 just kills the CPU, as its at 100% getting 500kbyte/s04:20
GeneralAntillesI get 800KB/sec over WPA2 and scp/sftp04:21
lcuksuboptimal my arse - if we can get fancy graphics at any resolution JUST FOR THE FUN OF IT then we shouldnt try?04:21
GeneralAntillesI'm merely arguing Nokia's point of view.04:21
monkeyiqGeneralAntilles; Ah ok, so maybe I should look at my AP etc. scp/wget both give me about 500kb/s04:21
KotCzarnymonkeyiq: i get 315kb/s04:22
KotCzarnyusing 11mbit04:22
lcukif nokia wanted optimal we would see movies at full res04:22
monkeyiqI get about 1mb/sec scp from localhost to localhost on the n81004:22
lcukbut they are shown at reduced res and people genenrally dont complain04:22
lcuksame with games04:22
GeneralAntillesMovies are a bit different from games.04:22
monkeyiqKotCzarny; ah ok. so my 500kb/sec is not sounding quite so bad.04:22
nwidger_pyano is good, but it's not fast enough04:23
monkeyiqbut still, viewing 4-5mb digital pix over NFS is very annoying. If I could get closer to 2mb/sec then it would be quite a nice image tablet04:23
KotCzarnymonkeyiq: vnc?04:23
nwidger_if you alternate keys too fast, it doesnt play all the hits04:23
monkeyiqor I could prescale the images at the server end, but I'd like to reserve that option for later04:23
monkeyiqKotCzarny; heh, interesting idea, not quite as crazy as it sounds at first.04:24
monkeyiquse the server to do the load/scale and only send the screen down the pipe04:24
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lcukauto compression, resolution reduction04:24
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KotCzarnylcuk: go to sleep04:24
lcukim just thinkin04:24
monkeyiqI might also try using no WEP/WPA2 and using tinc/openvnc or ssh tunneling to see if I can get better speed04:25
KotCzarnyotoh i should try this test from another comp04:25
monkeyiqsince the n810 can to 1mb/s on loopback and it has to enc/dec I might get closer to 2mb/s over ssh on no WEP/WPA04:25
KotCzarnyit was wifi--router--wifi04:25
lcukwhat res images are you testing with monkeyiq04:25
monkeyiqlcdd; 10mpx04:25
monkeyiqerr, lcuk that is04:25
lcukwill always end up with MUCH more data then - vnc showing fullscreen will be much less04:26
KotCzarnyespecially with jpeg encoding04:26
monkeyiqI was just hoping that with 2mb/s it would take about 2 sec to xfer and it would be usable with prefetching.04:26
monkeyiqgiven that canola can handle these images resonalby well from sdcards04:26
lcukwhat are you using to copy?04:26
monkeyiqbut for bandwidth tests, scp04:27
monkeyiqor wget04:27
monkeyiqboth give 500kb/s which is fishy given that scp has to do more CPU stuff (the whole WPA2 and ssh crypto combination)04:28
lcukyou could try and see if they are progressive04:28
monkeyiqso I think WPA2 is limiting bandwidth for all to < 500k/s04:28
KotCzarnyi confirm04:28
lcukat least you would get the preview quicker04:28
KotCzarnysucking off eth--wlan it's 450-50004:28
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monkeyiqI haven't tested what I can get without WEP/WPA2 to see what the wifi is absolutely limited to04:28
KotCzarnyand cpu usage is ~50% on tablet04:28
lcukie, dont read after copying - try to load images direct - if they are progressive and your preview can show them - you will get images quicker on screen04:29
KotCzarnyso it's not an bottleneck04:29
monkeyiqlcuk; yeah, though for that I don't mind having a daemon to thumb things for me.04:29
KotCzarnyphp based server04:29
lcukfair enough04:29
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monkeyiqso I have a 70% qual 800x480 thumb to load04:29
monkeyiqor something04:29
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monkeyiqKotCzarny; interesting, CPU is at 100% for me on the n810 during copy04:30
lcukyer, should be tiny files04:30
KotCzarnyi use wep04:30
monkeyiqah ok :)04:30
KotCzarnyand cpuinfo shows that cpu is in 160mhz mode04:30
lcukim off 2 sleep anyway :)04:31
KotCzarny   78 root      11  -5     0    0    0 D 37.5  0.0   3:35.01 OMAP McSPI/004:31
monkeyiqit seems that many apps expect either stuff is on sdcard or explicitly on the internet. I tried running kagu with an NFS mount in its indexing path... bad idea! It actually downloads each song from NFS fully to read ID3 tags04:31
KotCzarnythat's the most cpu intensive process04:31
KotCzarny  464 root      10  -5     0    0    0 D  8.2  0.0   1:21.14 cx3110x04:31
KotCzarnywifi driver is ~10%04:31
* monkeyiq crashes qemu in scratchbox again04:32
KotCzarnymonkeyiq: how about xmms?04:32
monkeyiqseems that sb doesn't much like fedora8 :(04:32
monkeyiqKotCzarny; I have that installed too, when you accidently minimize xmms things get interesting :)04:32
KotCzarnymonkeyiq: get my kciconsbox04:32
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KotCzarnyfor the situations like this :)04:33
monkeyiqhehe, a single google hit!04:33
KotCzarnyit's on the net since yesterday04:33
KotCzarnyand i have to rewrite it properly in c ;)04:34
monkeyiqI've been brewing a few debs for the n810 myself... parted is quite handy :)04:34
monkeyiqBTW is there a kernel for the n810 that has kernel modules packaged too, like luks, fuse, xfs etc?04:34
monkeyiqunfortunately the kernel compile also crashes qemu on fedora8 scratchbox :/04:35
KotCzarnyyou can get kernel source and make modules yourself04:35
monkeyiqSo i might end up trying scbox on ubuntu in a vm04:35
monkeyiqI was just hoping that some main repo existed to avoid having everyone recompile the kernel.04:35
KotCzarnyfor luks and fuse there are packages i guess04:35
KotCzarnyuser compiled04:36
monkeyiqah ok. I saw a luks tar.gz of modules and kernel but the only fuse stuff I found was for the 77004:36
KotCzarnyi can give you fuse-sshfs package04:36
* monkeyiq is a filesystems kind of guy, just in case you didn't pick up on it :)04:36
KotCzarnyif you want04:36
KotCzarnyalso i can compile xfs04:36
monkeyiqrepo url?04:36
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KotCzarnymore like tar.gz04:37
KotCzarnythan .deb04:37
monkeyiqcool. I'll take a look. I might also get the fuse automounter filesystem happening.04:37
monkeyiqthough a tray icon with mount/umount options would also be quite handy.04:38
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monkeyiqand the ability to automount stuff if a VPN/network came up04:38
KotCzarnyit's all scriptable04:38
monkeyiqI suspect that will be one of my first apps for maemo :)04:38
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KotCzarnyone note about xmms, mad plugin is a must04:42
KotCzarnybuiltin mp3 decoder will suck 100% cpu04:42
KotCzarnymad gets away with 15%04:42
monkeyiqah ok. nice tip. I mostly have ogg/flac, but do have the odd mp3 (haven't actually played an mp3 on the 810 yet)04:43
monkeyiqthough also I need to work out how to integrate Luks into maemo. with nice login/password dialogs and such04:45
KotCzarnypygtk to be exact04:45
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monkeyiqhaving tainted a 810 bootup once, I'm not too happy about testing such dialogs in the boot process on a device04:45
monkeyiqwell, the dialog itself I might just make using the gtk2 C api. its more the hookup logistics and getting luks to do the right thing, like flushing a fs key on device lock etc.04:46
KotCzarnyi hated when my slackware rc.S tried to mount -a my sshfs shares04:46
monkeyiqI'll get bacula onto the 810 soon so I don't live in a digital wasteland on it anymore :)04:46
KotCzarnyadding nosshfs helped ;)04:47
monkeyiqyeah, that would kind of suck :)04:47
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monkeyiqKotCzarny; what linux distro is your sbox installed on? so I can install that in a vm for my custom kernel compiles. (and get xalanc and xqilla to compile without crashing qemu)04:51
KotCzarnydebian would work too04:52
monkeyiqok thanks :) I was hoping to find a post somewhere about what fedora does to angry up sbox so much, but the only ones I found don't help with the kernel04:52
KotCzarnyredhat has a bad fame04:52
KotCzarnyabout custom untested patches ;)04:52
monkeyiqI might try a vanilla linux kernel on the fedora vmachine that runs sbox to see if that helps04:52
monkeyiqI suspect its either the fed kernel or its glibc, hopefully its not the later :/04:53
KotCzarnyit's not that bad i think04:54
monkeyiqyeah, I might move away to debian at some stage, but I don't switch lightly.04:54
KotCzarnyinstall debian on vmware?04:54
monkeyiqyeah, that is the other option. I already have an ubuntu vm, so just clone that and install sbox on the clone04:54
monkeyiqI might end up just using sbox on the ubuntu vm if fedora is going to give me these issues, as that vmachine is just for sbox anyway04:55
KotCzarnythere's a vmware image anyway04:55
KotCzarnyready to consume04:55
KotCzarnyhave you tried it?04:56
monkeyiqnup. But installing sbox on a clone isn't hard and will be less bandwidth than downloading a whole vm04:56
monkeyiqbut I'll keep that as a final, last resort :)04:56
KotCzarnyit's still few hundred mbs04:56
KotCzarnyfor the sb/sdk/update04:57
monkeyiqand then brew off a tarball with shitloads of kernel modules. :)04:57
KotCzarnynot that much04:57
KotCzarnymost of the kernel branches are cut off04:57
monkeyiqthough I did notice a few nice treats when I poked around in menuconfig for the kernel.04:58
KotCzarnydon't forget about randr patch04:59
monkeyiqalso getting many of the funkier network modules will make for interesting games to play04:59
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rm_yousorry, annoyed because i've been so busy recently i haven't had time to even look at IRC in almost a week05:09
rm_youbut i'm back :P05:09
KotCzarnyhave you seen my kciconsbox already?05:09
rm_youi haven't touched my n800 in over a week either <_<05:10
GeneralAntillesDoes it still hate you? :P05:10
rm_yousoooo busy... and got a laptop... and my n800 is choking itself to death05:10
rm_youGeneralAntilles: not QUITE as much, but yes it is.05:10
rm_youone day it wont stay on for more than like 2 minutes at a time, other days it only shuts off two or three times in the whole day05:10
GeneralAntillesSounds like bad hardware.05:11
rm_youyes. only. compared to about 500 times in a day05:11
rm_youGeneralAntilles: i think it's watchdog tho...05:11
KotCzarnymine shuts down only when i keep it starving too long05:11
GeneralAntillesWell, obviously.05:11
GeneralAntillesBut SOMETHING is causing the resets.05:11
GeneralAntillesI'm assuming you've reflashed?05:12
KotCzarnyrm_you: have you tried disabling wd ?05:12
rm_youhow can i turn off watchdog so i will have time to see?05:12
KotCzarnyuse flasher tool05:12
rm_youi've tried looking it up and failed05:12
rm_youi'm on windoze ATM due to work05:12
GeneralAntillesYou need the linucks flasher.05:12
rm_youis there not a way to disable it on the device?05:12
rm_youlike, FROM the device?05:12
lcukvmware image is linux :)05:13
KotCzarnyyou can try setting interval05:13
GeneralAntillesNot that I know of.05:13
KotCzarnyto some high number05:13
rm_youwhere is the interval setting?05:13
KotCzarnysomewhere in /sys05:13
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KotCzarnyby default it's ~60sec05:13
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KotCzarny /sys/devices/platform/retu-watchdog/05:14
KotCzarnyecho 600 > /sys/devices/platform/retu-watchdog/period05:14
KotCzarny(haven't tried it, but report if it helps)05:15
rm_youthat would make it every... 600 seconds?05:15
KotCzarnyseems to be ignored05:15
KotCzarnymaybe dbus05:15
KotCzarnyor kernel recompile05:16
KotCzarnyno-omap-wd no-retu-wd no-lifeguard-reset05:19
KotCzarnyflasher --set-rd-flags no-omap-wd,no-retu-wd,no-lifeguard-reset05:21
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KotCzarnyprobably something like this05:21
rm_youcan i do that without actually flashing the device?05:21
KotCzarnyit's probably setting flags05:22
rm_youi will try downloading the vmware05:22
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rm_youi have an ubuntu livecd somewhere here05:22
rm_youi can shove that in my laptop05:22
KotCzarnybut be aware05:22
KotCzarnythat if the device really hangs05:22
KotCzarnyyou will have to take out battery05:23
KotCzarnyto reboot it05:23
rm_youhrm k05:23
rm_youlets see...05:23
KotCzarnybecause no reboot button05:23
rm_youdo i just plug in  the usb and run the flasher?05:23
rm_youi have no idea how to do this... *sigh*05:23
rm_youoff to forums05:23
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rm_youi was trying to work on a UT3 mapping project for class, but i need a break >_<05:24
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GeneralAntillesflasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags05:24
GeneralAntillesThat's throw you the options.05:24
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rm_youima do this i think:05:29
rm_you./flasher-3.0 --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags no-omap-wd,no-retu-wd,no-lifeguard-reset05:29
rm_youlook good?05:29
KotCzarnyi'm not sure about --enable-rd-mode05:29
rm_youwell, i never did it05:29
KotCzarnybut it shouldn't break too much05:30
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rm_youand that makes it easier to sudo, yes?05:30
KotCzarnytry with and without it05:30
KotCzarnyyou can try testing each wd flag separately05:30
GeneralAntillesDon't you have easyroot or something installed. :P05:30
KotCzarnyto pinpoint which one is responsible for resets05:30
rm_youyeah i do..05:30
rm_youanyway, so i tried ./flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags no-omap-wd,no-retu-wd,no-lifeguard-reset05:31
rm_youand it just prints out the possible rd flags again05:31
rm_youdoesnt say to use =05:31
GeneralAntillesIt's Nokia05:31
rm_youso now it has a little wrench icon on the load screen ^_^05:33
GeneralAntillesIt gets old fast.05:33
KotCzarnywrench as in 'something is screwed'05:33
KotCzarnyjust kidding05:34
rm_youso how do i make it boot now05:34
rm_youit's still in USB boot mode05:34
GeneralAntillesflasher-3.0 -R05:34
GeneralAntillesYou fail hard05:34
GeneralAntillesHow long have you had this thing? :P05:34
rm_youi never used the linux flasher :P05:35
rm_youi have to... for work :/05:35
rm_youi program in VB05:35
* KotCzarny shrugs05:35
KotCzarnyvb damages brain05:35
* KotCzarny shrugs again05:36
rm_youso i just droped it on my desk from about an inch... and it shut off05:36
KotCzarnythen it's physical damage05:36
GeneralAntillesThat sounds bad05:36
KotCzarnysomethings is loose on the board05:36
GeneralAntillesStill under warranty?05:36
rm_yousad, because i've never dropped this thing (besides that same inch maybe once or twice)05:36
rm_youGeneralAntilles: doubt it :/05:36
GeneralAntillesIt's 1 year05:37
rm_youbought it on ITT forums used, remember?05:37
rm_youno idea05:37
GeneralAntillesAh, right-o.05:37
rm_youthat was last july...05:37
GeneralAntillesWell, couldn't hurt to call, anyway.05:37
rm_youhow can i find out?05:37
rm_youwill they tell me?05:37
rm_youi dont have a receipt or anything05:37
KotCzarnyyou can tell you lost it05:37
corq-FLI just upgraded to Hardy on my soundcard *works* but the annoying system beep is somehow also enabled, anyone know how to disable the system beep?05:37
GeneralAntillesThey should05:37
KotCzarnyat least you can try05:37
GeneralAntillescorq-FL, this isn't #ubuntu05:38
rm_youcorq-FL: in like... the terminal?05:38
KotCzarnycorq: remove the speaker from the case05:38
corq-FLthx sorry05:38
rm_youyou can disable it in the prefs05:38
rm_you"terminal bell" checkbox05:38
rm_youit's annoying as hell05:38
KotCzarnyif you're afk05:39
corq-FLyay - ah thank you - as it happens my Nokia 810 is working peachy thus far =)05:40
GeneralAntillesVisual bell is worse.05:40
rm_youOur manufacturing records indicate that your device, serial number 00194F######, may not be in warranty. Please visit our Warranty section or reference your purchase documentation for detailed information about your device's limited warranty. If you determine that your device is within the warranty period, a copy of the proof of purchase is required for repair.05:42
KotCzarnyah, well05:42
rm_youthat's what their support site says05:43
GeneralAntillesFriend up mine just had his fixed after the faceplate fell off05:43
GeneralAntillesDidn't need proof of purchase.05:43
KotCzarnyworth a shot05:43
KotCzarnyonline sale or lost receipt way05:43
KotCzarnyin the worst case you can get back money for parts05:44
KotCzarny(on ebay)05:44
rm_youi could always open it up and try to find the problem05:44
rm_youand take a soldering iron to it, if it's a loose connection05:44
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KotCzarnyonly after calling nokia05:44
KotCzarnyand thheir refusal to take it05:44
GeneralAntillesGood luck with that.05:45
GeneralAntillesJust remember to follow thoughtfix's disassembly instructions and be VERY careful with the LCD connector.05:46
rm_youGeneralAntilles: do me a favor... turn one of your n800s off, take out the battery/SD cards05:47
rm_youand shake it near your ear05:47
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GeneralAntillesBut my uptime. ;_;05:47
rm_youand tell me if you hear something rattling05:47
rm_youtowards the DPAD area05:47
GeneralAntillesOne's 250 miles south with my sister, anyway. :P05:47
GeneralAntillesThe buttons are loose.05:48
rm_younot the buttons05:48
rm_youi'm holding all those down tight05:48
KotCzarnyrm_you: no rattling05:48
GeneralAntillesThe internal card latch?05:48
KotCzarnybut i didn't turn it off05:48
rm_youGeneralAntilles: no05:48
pupniki really hate the folks who buy PSPs, NDSs and Iphones and then feel all clever because they broke the license agreement05:48
Navipupnik, woo \o/05:48
GeneralAntillesYes, there's still a rattle05:49
rm_youpupnik: i greatly enjoyed breaking the license agreement on my DS when i installed DSLinux ^_^05:49
KotCzarnypupnik: and then fail at the next firmware update?05:49
NaviI want to buy a PSP to break the license agreement05:49
GeneralAntillesWith both the sd latch  and buttons held down05:49
GeneralAntillesMaybe the camera wire.05:49
pupnikwell breaking the license agreement is ok.  just ... the mfgrs closed system sucks05:49
pupniksorry i am incoherent05:49
* GeneralAntilles puts his N800 back together.05:49
rm_youGeneralAntilles: yeah i think you're right05:49
rm_youi pulled out the camera and it still rattled, but then i turned it all the way around and it stopped the rattle05:50
rm_youyeah ok, i dont know if it's a good idea, but recent testing shows that repeatedly smacking the n800 lightly against my hand from about two inches away *will* make it reboot05:53
rm_youGeneralAntilles: want to try with yours and see if you can replicate my issue? :P05:54
KotCzarnyrm_you: i was carrying mine in backpack whole day05:54
KotCzarnyand it didn't reboot05:54
GeneralAntillesI've done it getting the battery out.05:54
GeneralAntillesNo, it doesn't05:54
GeneralAntillesand I've dropped it onto hard floors more than once05:54
GeneralAntillesNo dice. :P05:54
KotCzarnyand my backpack is quite hard place to live :>05:54
rm_youi can't find a number for nokia05:55
rm_youso soldering iron it is05:55
KotCzarnyhow good are you with smds ?05:56
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woodwizzlecan you uninstall official aps?06:06
woodwizzleoh cool06:06
KotCzarnybut some of them are critical06:07
KotCzarnyand you better know what you are doing06:07
woodwizzleI don't have an n810, but I'm considering it, however I know I'd be using unofficial GPS and Media players, I wanted to make sure I could install those and uninstall the originals06:07
woodwizzleotherwise I'd run out of space on the built in 2gigs06:07
KotCzarnyout of space?06:08
GeneralAntillesThe internal card isn't used for application installation.06:08
GeneralAntillesWell, except for caching by Application manager.06:08
woodwizzleoh, apps are installed on the sd card?06:08
GeneralAntillesEverything install onto the internal 256MB flash.06:08
woodwizzleoh, doesn't that run out quick?06:09
KotCzarnywoodwizzle: some are putting data there06:09
KotCzarnylike maemo-mapper06:09
KotCzarnybut it's all application configurable06:09
GeneralAntillesThere are three things in the N810: the internal 256MB of flash for the OS and applications, the 2GB internal card (soldered on SD card), and the external minisd slot06:09
KotCzarnymost often06:09
GeneralAntillesNot particularly06:09
GeneralAntillesIt really depends on what you install06:09
GeneralAntillesYou can always boot from a partition on either one of the cards.06:10
GeneralAntillesor extend the rootfs to them06:10
GeneralAntillesSo it's really not an issue.06:10
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woodwizzleCool cool.06:14
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woodwizzleIt is posible to play ogg and flac by installing an external package right?06:25
KotCzarnytreat it as a laptop06:25
KotCzarnywith linux of course06:26
KotCzarnyand go to maemo.org06:26
KotCzarnyfor info and software packages06:26
woodwizzleYeah I'm there now.06:26
KotCzarnyalso to garage.maemo.org06:26
KotCzarnyit's more experimental software06:27
ooblinux!? but our Novell salesman assured us that Linux doesn't have approval from Microsoft so we shouldn't use it06:27
KotCzarnypeople hack iphones06:27
KotCzarnypeople hack psps06:28
woodwizzleCan it run standard elf binaries? I'd like to put adom on there ;)06:29
KotCzarnystandard, no, because it's arm06:29
KotCzarnybut you shouldn't have much trouble compiling the sources for it06:30
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woodwizzleadom isn't open source :(06:31
woodwizzlemy one free as in beer but not as in speech weak spot06:31
KotCzarnythen you can ask the author to cross compile for armel06:31
woodwizzleI'll probably be fine with wesnoth, openttd, and nethack =)06:31
KotCzarnyyou can try running dosemu06:32
KotCzarnyand dos version of adom..06:32
KotCzarnyif you are really desperate06:32
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woodwizzlethats pretty cool06:37
woodwizzleI had been saving up for an eee pc, but I'm thinking about getting an n810 now instead.06:37
KotCzarnywhy not n800 ?06:37
GeneralAntillesHow important is pocketability?06:38
woodwizzleI'm not sure. I have a laptop that is about 13.3in. I know I want smaller and more linux friendly than that.  I'm not sure if an eee is small enough though. I can see some situations where I would only have a pocketable device that I would use06:39
KotCzarnyhow much cpu will you need?06:40
woodwizzleMaybe settling a bet in a bar. Looking up an obscure 8-ball rule on the net. (though this of course requires available wifi). I like the idea of it as a portable multimedia player too.06:40
KotCzarnyie. do you plan playing 3d games?06:40
GeneralAntillesThe Eee isn't at all pocketable, and its formfactor greatly limits (read: eliminates) any real mobile usability.06:40
woodwizzleThough the 8gb limit isn't quite the ammount I would like06:40
GeneralAntillesebooks are awesome, too.06:40
GeneralAntillesSD cards will get bigger06:40
KotCzarnyerm. what 8gb limit?06:40
GeneralAntillesThe 16s will be out soon.06:40
woodwizzleI read that the n810 could only handle an 8gb card06:41
GeneralAntilles32s by the end of summer.06:41
KotCzarnyold news06:41
GeneralAntillesThat's what Nokia tested it with06:41
KotCzarnyit will support ANY sdhc card06:41
GeneralAntillesThe hardware limit is 2048GB06:41
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KotCzarnybecause there may be incompatibilities06:41
KotCzarnybut if storage space is an issue get n80006:41
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KotCzarny(2 sd slots)06:41
KotCzarnyregular ones06:41
KotCzarnynot mini sd06:41
KotCzarnyso: cheaper sd cards06:42
KotCzarnyand more storage space06:42
rm_youn800 > n810 imo06:42
woodwizzleYeah I saw that, I dunno if I'm willing to give up the keyboard though. Also I like GPS a lot.06:42
KotCzarnyn810 is a little step backward and to the side06:42
GeneralAntillesThe GPS on the N810 sucks.06:43
KotCzarnyget bt gps06:43
rm_youwoodwizzle: buy an external bluetooth GPS for $6006:43
KotCzarnyand you're done06:43
GeneralAntillesBetter off with a Bluetooth GPS06:43
rm_youit's WAY better than the n810 internal06:43
GeneralAntillesThat has a quarter of the acquisition time, can get and hold a lock indoors, and has much better accuracy overall06:43
woodwizzleIs the n800 pocketable? I know the 810 is smaller06:43
KotCzarnynot much06:44
GeneralAntillesOh, and, optionally, run at 5Hz06:44
rm_youwoodwizzle: i do it06:44
KotCzarnythey're comparable06:44
GeneralAntillesThey're both plenty pocketable.06:44
GeneralAntillesN800 is mostly longer.06:44
KotCzarnyfew mm at most06:44
woodwizzlerun at 5hz?06:44
GeneralAntillesAs opposed to 1Hz06:44
woodwizzlewhat do you mean?06:44
GeneralAntillesUpdate rate06:44
GeneralAntillesof the GPS06:44
rm_youwoodwizzle: i pocket my n800 in a normal pair of jeans...06:44
GeneralAntillesBoth are perfectly pocketable.06:45
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woodwizzleIts about $150 cheaper too06:46
GeneralAntilles$200 USD is the price I would shoot for for the N800.06:46
rm_youyeah, but an n800 for $200, bt GPS/Keyboard = ~$100 extra06:46
rm_youand you get a better GPS and keyboard06:46
KotCzarnykb is 25$06:46
woodwizzleamason has it fo 24106:46
rm_youi said "~"06:47
Naviyou can get a usb keyboard for 1506:47
KotCzarnyVERY good gps is 95$06:47
KotCzarnybt kb (25$)06:47
rm_youVERY good gps is $6006:47
woodwizzlea bt keyboard is not pocketable06:47
rm_youwoodwizzle: this one is06:47
KotCzarnyrm_you: chipset?06:47
KotCzarnywoodwizzle: i disagree06:47
KotCzarnygoogle for igo ultra-slim06:47
rm_youi have this one, it's amazing06:48
GeneralAntillesiTrek is boring06:48
KotCzarny"waiting for"06:48
rm_youcold-lock in < 30s, hot-lock in < 10s06:48
GeneralAntillesGet one of the i-blues06:48
rm_youGeneralAntilles: cheap and nice06:48
GeneralAntillesi-blues offer 5Hz06:48
rm_youGeneralAntilles: i don't know how GPS could get better than this thing >_>06:49
GeneralAntillesThey're the same chipset06:49
rm_youso how is that one better? :P06:49
GeneralAntillesor solar with the 75706:49
rm_youhow does that make gps better? :P06:50
GeneralAntillesor internal memory with the 74706:50
GeneralAntilles5hz gives you better accuracy.06:50
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KotCzarnysdio based gps would be a hit06:50
rm_youthis thing is ridiculously accurate06:50
rm_youlike i said...06:50
rm_youi don't know how GPS could get better than this thing >_>06:50
GeneralAntilles5hz > 1hz06:50
rm_youbut... it tracks me within like 1 foot06:51
GeneralAntillesSo does mine.06:51
rm_youso how is that better?!06:51
elbyou don't have any GPS tracking within 1 foot06:51
elbif it's telling you that, it's lying06:51
GeneralAntilles5hz updates more often.06:51
GeneralAntillesSo you get cleaner tracks and better accuracy through turns.06:51
woodwizzlewhich ones cheaper06:51
rm_youelb: I walk outside, i look at gps, i look at my surroundings, i determine it's within +/- 1 foot06:51
rm_youelb: it didn't tell me that, I decided that :P06:52
* Proteous plops out his epeen to join the debate06:52
GeneralAntillesThe map isn't accurate enough to determine that kind of accuracy. :P06:52
elbif you're talking about relative GPS (with a fixed ground station for reference) you should be able to get fractions of an inch06:52
ProteousI'm talking about second cousin GPS06:52
elbbut GPS signals simply don't have enough accuracy to give you 1' resolution, even with corrective data from WAAS etc.06:52
Proteousdoes that count?06:52
rm_yougoogle sattelite map shows me when i'm under my porch, which is about 3ft wide, lol06:53
KotCzarnyproteous: you track your cousin?06:53
GeneralAntilleswoodwizzle, get the M7 from semsons here:
Proteousyeah, with relative GPS06:53
elbrm_you: any particular given location might be within 1' at any particular given time06:53
KotCzarnyrelatively sick!06:53
GeneralAntillesProteous has a sick, sick mind.06:53
elbbut GPS doesn't give you a single location, it gives you a probability distribution for a location06:54
ProteousI could be on mars06:54
ProteousGPS wouldn't tell me that06:54
elband the best you can hope for is about 9'06:54
elb(with 95% probability, if I recall correctly)06:54
rm_youi have no idea what the statistics on this thing are... i'm just telling you my real-world observations06:54
Proteousdepends on if GPS has been degraded by the military06:54
elbit hasn't06:55
rm_youand frankly, i don't *care* about the specs, as long as the real-world observations are this good :P06:55
woodwizzlehow big are those recievers? Could I fit the reciever and the n800 in the same pocket or same case (preferably with a belt clip)06:55
Proteousif it can direct me to the fridge to find beer then I don't care06:55
elbif you stand on your porch for a few minutes, you should see yourself drifting out from under it06:55
Proteous(sometimes I get lost)06:55
ProteousI had that happen to me elb06:55
elbanyway, you're welcome to believe whatever you want -- just don't try to count on it for resolution better than a few yards06:55
Proteousbut I had eaten some moldy stuff from the fridge right before06:55
GeneralAntilleswoodwizzle, I usually carry mine in a watchpocket when I take it with me.06:56
woodwizzleYou mean that little mini jean pocket?06:56
woodwizzleThats not bad at all06:56
ProteousI keep my phone in there when I have me 770 in my pocket06:56
Proteousand I'm talking like a pirate it seems06:57
oobso you do GeneralAntilles, so you do;
woodwizzleI have yet to find a n800 for $20006:57
Proteousarr, I keeps me phone in theres when I be out to sea06:57
KotCzarnywoodwizzle: froogle06:57
rm_youwow, it DOES fit in my watch-pocket06:57
rm_youcrazy :P06:57
GeneralAntillesStylish and functional!06:57
KotCzarnyi have seen one for ~19006:57
rm_youi never knew what that stupid tiny pocket was for :P06:57
GeneralAntillesWatches, of course!06:57
KotCzarnyrm_you: it's for condoms06:57
KotCzarnyof course06:57
rm_youwoodwizzle: about two weeks ago i saw one for $18006:57
GeneralAntillesSome people like to use it for change. <_<06:57
elbthat dude is a nerd06:58
elbI demand a shoulder holster, though06:58
GeneralAntilleselb, that would be me, except it'd be a 9mm in there. :P06:58
elbwell, I carry a .4006:58
ooba nerd sporting the very latest in portable haute couture06:58
elbbut yeah06:58
rm_youwoah, sweet:
elbdressing up just isn't the same with an IWB06:59
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woodwizzleHow good is the bluetooth on these things?07:04
woodwizzleI mean can I use a stereo bluetooth headset and a bluetooth gps and keyboard all at the same time?07:04
elbgps is very low rate07:05
elbbluetooth is designed to handle more than one headset07:06
elbnow, I dunno about the Nokia itself07:06
oobi've had a bluetooth odb-II tool, phone and keyboard connected concurrently without encountering any issues07:08
oobi'd say the odb-II is quite high rate07:08
woodwizzlethe n800 can do 2 sdhc cards too. Is 16gb the biggest out now? I could get 2 of those for about $60 each. and That gives me the same amount of space as the $500 i touch07:09
rm_youoob: where did you buy your odb-II?07:10
rm_youwoodwizzle: i think 32gb will be out soon...07:10
ProteousI modded a retractable USB cable to make it more pocketable:
GeneralAntillesobd-ii is quite cool07:11
GeneralAntillesDon't think the data rate is high at all, though.07:11
rm_youyeah, i need one...07:11
rm_youmy car does... odd things sometimes07:11
woodwizzlewhat is obd-ii ?07:11
oobno? it seems to poll a lot of sensors07:11
GeneralAntillesMaybe somewhere in the range of 50Kbps?07:11
oobwoodwizzle, an interface to onboard car computers07:11
GeneralAntillesDepends on the car, though, I suppose.07:11
woodwizzleoh, i know what you mean.07:12
GeneralAntillesoob, it's not like there's a lot of data there.07:12
rm_youwoodwizzle: you plug it into most modern cars (they have a strange looking jack somewhere under a plastic panel usually) and it reads all your car's sensors07:12
rm_youabout a year ago i had 4 of 5 of my cylinders misfiring >_<07:12
Proteousthe wierdest thing was that his engine just has 3 cylinders07:13
woodwizzleMan that is wicked!07:14
rm_youwow, this is expensive >_> $17007:14
oobwoodwizzle, until someone hacks your n810 and tells your automatic that it in fact has a manual transmission..07:14
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oobrm_you, compared to some of the other odb-II interfaces it's better because it's very short07:19
rm_youthe other ones i saw were all serial interface with bluetooth attachments sold seperately07:19
GeneralAntillesI paid $100 for mine.07:20
GeneralAntillesJust a rs-232 adaptor, basically.07:20
oobthis is good for instance in an audi s8, as it fits in the port under the ashtray and doesn't block the sliding door from closing07:20
rm_youoob: you just leave it in there all the time?07:20
rm_youor just use it for periodic maintenance checks?07:20
KotCzarnydoh, it's late again07:21
Proteousdon't you hate that07:22
KotCzarnya little07:22
GeneralAntillesPeople with S8s? Yes. :P07:22
oobrm_you, the carman application provides realtime monitoring, which is detail that's pertinent when driving, so I have it on when i'm in the car07:22
woodwizzleHow good is the battery life on an n800 compared to an n810?07:22
KotCzarnywoodwizzle: similiar07:23
NaviDoes carman still perform horribly on the N8X0s?07:23
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KotCzarnythey're nearly the same hw07:23
Proteousone has a keyboard on GPS07:23
KotCzarnydisfunctional gps07:23
KotCzarnyso it doesn't count07:23
KotCzarnyand kb takes nearly no power07:24
GeneralAntilleswoodwizzle, they're the same.07:24
Proteousit has cell assisted GPS but doesn't have cell phone functionality07:24
KotCzarnyunless you count leds07:24
GeneralAntillesThe guts aren't really different.07:24
GeneralAntillesNavi, haven't tried it with OS2008 yet07:24
GeneralAntillesI suspect it'll be better.07:24
GeneralAntillesIt wasn't actually "horrible" in OS2007 either way07:24
Proteousramping up the processor speed never helped battery life before...07:24
GeneralAntillesThey have frequency scaling now.07:25
KotCzarnybut dsp is lowered07:25
rm_youProteous: actually, it ends up being similar... higher cpu for shorter time, vs lower cpu for longer time07:25
oobnavi - i've only used it on os2008 so can't compare but anecdotally, i find the performance acceptable07:25
GeneralAntillesSo, most of the time, it's actually running a lot slower than OS2007.07:25
rm_youalso, yes, good cpu scaling now...07:25
ProteousI see07:25
GeneralAntillesOS2007 was 330MHz all the time.07:26
GeneralAntillesNow we're 165MHz most of the time with trips to 400MHz07:26
Proteousdamn 330 haters07:26
GeneralAntillesNavi, think any performance issues were really ones with the slow serial interface that is OBD-II, anyway.07:26
Proteous330MHz all the time was good enough for OS2007, it good enough for you!07:27
* KotCzarny disabled that mode and is 400/133 now07:27
ProteousI found a trick to get my 770 to run at 0Mhz07:27
KotCzarnyrm_you: you mean overclocking to 500mhz would consume same power?07:27
ProteousI just leave it on for a day07:27
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rm_youKotCzarny: no :P lol07:28
KotCzarnyok, time for some c coding07:29
rm_youKotCzarny: assuming the same task though, the same number of CPU cycles will be required in the long run, so if you need 5000 cpu cycles to complete a calculation, it will run at 400mhz for a shorter time than on 330mhz... so even though it draws more power per time unit, it runs for less time units :P so it is close to even generally07:29
KotCzarnyrm_you: i was kidding :)07:30
rm_youyeah, and i was feeling long-winded :P07:30
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GeneralAntillesIs the concept.07:30
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GeneralAntillesGet down to the lowest voltage as quickly as possible.07:30
* KotCzarny runs his pentium-m at 0.7v all the time07:31
KotCzarnywell, 0.73207:31
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rm_youthe same thing applies to laptop harddrives... for a long time everyone had 5400rpm drives, because they were lower power... but they also need to spin longer... so it really doesn't make a power difference. though, there is a slight heat difference <_<07:31
* Proteous just does his binary calculations on a adder he built from legos07:31
KotCzarnyrm_you: i have swapped hdd for a ide--double cf solution07:32
KotCzarnyless power, less noise07:32
* GeneralAntilles smashes Proteous's legos.07:32
KotCzarnyand less capacity07:32
rm_you :P07:32
KotCzarnybut 12gb is enough07:32
woodwizzleHas anyone installed wesnoth on their maemo device?07:33
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* Proteous uses fruitloops on toothpicks for memory, it's non volitile, until he gets too hungry07:33
KotCzarnyshouldn't it be 'openwide' ?07:33
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woodwizzleWhich is better the I.Trek m5+ or the M7?07:41
woodwizzlethey look real similar to me07:41
KotCzarnythen take cheaper07:41
woodwizzleI'll prolly be fine with 16gb until the 32gb comes out. Then in the end I'd have 48 =)07:44
KotCzarnyonly if you get n80007:44
woodwizzleYeah, well it looks like I'll be going that way07:45
KotCzarnyyou may wait for 810 successor though07:45
woodwizzleWhen would that be announced?07:46
KotCzarnywho knows07:46
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woodwizzle48-64gb would be more than enough for me, and its more than I could get with an eee with its one slot. the external gps ain't all that bad, especially since its a better quality device07:47
woodwizzlewho makes the best n800 case?07:47
KotCzarnyget a case that will fit n800 and gps/kb07:48
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woodwizzleKotCzarny: Do you know of one?07:48
woodwizzlethe few cases i've seen so far don't look to have room for the gps07:48
KotCzarnysome people suggested harddrive cases07:48
GeneralAntilleswoodwizzle, case logic has a portable harddrive case that if perfect for N800 + iGo07:49
Italodancehi guys :D07:49
GeneralAntillesor N800 + GPS, cables, memory cards, headset, etc.07:49
GeneralAntillesIt's in with the hard drives at best buy07:50
GeneralAntillesso you can go look at it07:50
GeneralAntillesThe DS cases aren't bad for the N800, though, either.07:50
woodwizzleis this the igo you're talking about?
KotCzarnyi have this one07:52
KotCzarnyworks hum ok ;)07:52
KotCzarnymost probably key lag is because of bt power saving on the nokia07:53
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woodwizzlecan the n800 do video chat with skype?07:59
KotCzarnybut with gizmo probably yes07:59
woodwizzleAll my friends are on skype07:59
KotCzarnygizmo is standard sip client07:59
KotCzarnycamera on nokias suck anyway07:59
KotCzarnytrust me07:59
woodwizzleYeah but its better than nothing07:59
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woodwizzlehow good is the still camera? is it better than a camera phone?08:00
KotCzarnybut i'll give it 3.5/1008:00
woodwizzleIts so nice to  have so many device in 1. But 3rd rate gps. Crummy photo quality, etc makes it almost worth while to just get seperate devices08:01
woodwizzlenot to mention I gotta carry my phone with me too08:02
KotCzarnyit's not a phone08:02
woodwizzlei know08:02
KotCzarnymany people try to treat it as a phone08:02
woodwizzlebut dammit its nokia08:02
KotCzarnyand give low ratings08:02
KotCzarnywell, i have n-gage anyway08:03
KotCzarnyclassic of course08:03
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woodwizzleIts still cheaper than an iTouch in the end. Even with the external blue tooth and buying the mem cards to make it the same size08:05
KotCzarnyand you can reuse bt and cards later08:05
ItalodanceKotCzarny i like n-gage :D08:05
woodwizzleAnd portable wesnoth makes me very happy08:05
woodwizzleAre there any must-have accessories that I haven't thought of?08:06
KotCzarnymaybe external battery?08:06
woodwizzlethat'll i end up having to buy later08:06
woodwizzledoes it have that option???08:06
KotCzarnyit takes 5V08:07
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KotCzarnyso anything that can provide 5v via standard plug should work i think08:07
KotCzarnyhaven't tested it though08:07
woodwizzleYou woulda tested it if it was a gotta have =)08:07
KotCzarnyat 100% cpu with wifi battery is drained in 3-4h08:08
ItalodanceKotCzarny new n-gage games can work with urs ?08:08
Italodancelike Fifa 0808:08
KotCzarnyitalodance: i don't know, probably not08:08
woodwizzlethats pretty rough. But i would use it as an mp3 player quite a bit with no wifi or screen08:08
woodwizzlethats about 10hrs i hear08:09
ItalodanceKotCzarny i want Fifa 08 for IT :D   possible?08:09
KotCzarnyitalodance: don't know, probably not08:09
woodwizzleAnyone play games on the n800? or do you guys just stick with your ngages08:09
KotCzarnywoodwizzle: pupnik.de08:09
KotCzarnyquite a few emulators/games08:10
rm_youwoodwizzle: doom! :P08:10
rm_youwoodwizzle: "lxdoom"08:10
woodwizzleDoom is ok. I'd prefer something with a bigger multiplayer community08:10
woodwizzlelike saurbraten08:10
woodwizzleor open arena08:10
KotCzarnyor quake2?08:11
KotCzarnythere's q2 for n8x008:11
woodwizzleHow is the 3d?08:11
KotCzarnysotware rendered08:11
KotCzarnybut fast08:11
woodwizzleuses the CPU then08:11
ItalodanceFIFA 08 ?08:13
woodwizzleHow hard would it be to compile open arena or saurbraten for the m80008:15
KotCzarnycompilation, shouldn't be a problem08:15
KotCzarnygame speed could ;)08:15
woodwizzlesays it can run on real slow CPUs but recommends 233mhz with more than 90mb of ram08:17
woodwizzlewhich is less specs than then n80008:17
woodwizzlebut they also say there are using a hardware video card with at least 8MB ram08:18
KotCzarnysorry, no drivers for hardware 3d08:18
KotCzarnyfor now08:18
KotCzarnya little08:19
tsukasahey is there an emulator for n800?08:19
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tsukasalike windows emulator08:19
tsukasathat runs n80008:19
tsukasawhere at?08:20
KotCzarnyit's included with sdk08:20
KotCzarnyit's more an simulator than emulator though08:20
KotCzarnysame story as with symbian sdk08:21
KotCzarnyyou get an environment that simulates the device08:21
woodwizzlehmm.. Gotta check the specs. Something like Assault Cube might be doable08:22
tsukasahow is that different/better/worst then an emulator?08:22
KotCzarnyruns fast08:22
woodwizzleHow do you control doom and quake? Do you need a bluetooth mouse?08:22
Italodancetsukasa where are u from?08:22
KotCzarnybecause actual code is compiled for x8608:22
tsukasaItalodance, texas08:22
Italodanceok :D08:22
KotCzarnyso you can test how developed app feels like08:22
KotCzarnyand you can test for bugs08:23
tsukasaKotCzarny, so it functions the same just on a diff arch08:23
tsukasaKotCzarny, the entire os and everything is there and works tho right08:23
KotCzarnybut it doesn't have dsp emulation08:23
KotCzarnyso anything trying to speak directly to hardware will fail08:23
KotCzarnytsukasa: yes08:23
KotCzarnyi guess08:23
KotCzarnybut you can't run arm binaries on it08:24
KotCzarnythat's why it's simulator08:24
KotCzarnynever used it though08:24
KotCzarnyi just mount my pc's dir via sshfs and run directly on device08:25
tsukasadoes the n800 have ir?08:25
tsukasathats sucks08:25
tsukasabecause otherwise it could be a universal remote too08:25
KotCzarnythere's usb08:25
tsukasahey if anyone in here works for nokia08:25
KotCzarnyusb--irda should work08:25
tsukasaa 30cent ir port would be nice08:25
KotCzarnyspace issues?08:26
tsukasai know but it costs like nothing to include08:26
tsukasai guess08:26
tsukasathe added functionality is worth it imo08:26
KotCzarnyit's already packed up to the top08:26
KotCzarnyconsider this:08:26
KotCzarnythey have to throw out sd slots from n800 to make additional features fit into n81008:26
tsukasagps is slightly more involved then ir though, im guessing08:27
Cptnodegardthey removed them to make it thing and pointless, macbook aiur style08:27
KotCzarnyn800 ftw!08:27
tsukasaKotCzarny, also consider the other side of the argument, you spend like $250 for a logitech harmony which is a universal remote with touchscreen with enough space to save like 50 configurations08:28
tsukasaor you add a 30 cent ir attachment to the n800 and your done08:28
KotCzarnytsukasa, as i said usb--irda08:28
Cptnodegardbut i totally agree that ir port would pwn, there are apps to work as universal remote. a usb thingy isnt a solution either because of the stupid placement of the usb port08:28
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KotCzarnyis there any bt-irda ?08:28
tank-mani think ive seen one08:29
Cptnodegardi think so... or wifi ones. that app has to use somethig :p the universal remote one08:29
tank-manyou can use a ir remote with the ps3 bluetooth08:29
Cptnodegardwhat would pwn would be a to a have an app for a cellphone, working as bt-ir bridge08:30
Cptnodegardjust leave the cell by the stereo and control from n8x008:30
KotCzarnynot a problem08:30
Cptnodegardthats available?08:31
KotCzarnyfor someone who can program java or symbian ;)08:31
Cptnodegardgo to work then ;P08:31
KotCzarnyhow much would you pay me?08:31
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Cptnodegard10000 simoleans?08:32
KotCzarnyhow much it is in EUR ?08:32
KotCzarnynot enough then08:32
Cptnodegardsimoleans are from The Sims08:32
KotCzarnynever played the sims08:32
Cptnodegardi would do it but i cant program my dick to piss straight08:33
woodwizzleHow fast is the ARM CPU running maemo and all. Does it feel quick?08:33
KotCzarnywoodwizzle: depends08:33
KotCzarnyinterface is fast08:33
woodwizzleHow about video performance?08:33
KotCzarnybrowser can be slow sometimes08:33
Cptnodegardstuttering no matter how small the video is08:34
KotCzarnybut there are developed fast versions08:34
KotCzarnycpt: not true08:34
Cptnodegarddoes with me08:34
KotCzarnyit's all because xomap is reniced to -108:34
Cptnodegardand from what i can see on itt, it does with others too08:34
Cptnodegardthe what has donewhat?08:34
tank-manencode your videos with a smaller resolution08:36
Cptnodegardthe secondary stabilizer in the gyrodane relee has depolarized08:36
Cptnodegard320x240 is small enough, theres still hickups (not constant stuttering)08:36
tank-manare you using mplayer ?08:37
tank-manor some frontend with that?08:37
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KotCzarnycpt: i have no stuttering with 720x448 vid08:39
KotCzarnywith content over sshfs08:39
Cptnodegardstuttering or hickups? as what im talking about is playing videos and getting stuttering for 2 secs or so randomly on small videos08:40
KotCzarnyas i said, renice your xomap to 008:40
KotCzarnyps ax|grep Xomap08:40
Cptnodegardyeah i dunno wtf that means, sorry :)08:40
KotCzarnythen take first number and: renice -0 number08:40
tank-mani didnt have to renice any app08:41
blafaselWhat's xomap anyway?08:41
Cptnodegardops school08:41
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KotCzarnythere's mplayer .26 on the garage08:50
KotCzarnyand .25 is completely removed ;)08:51
ItalodanceKotCzarny  25 is better than 2608:54
woodwizzleIf I want to see if something compiles for maemo, can I just try to compile it for a maemo emulator?08:59
woodwizzleThat way I can test if some programs are compatible08:59
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KotCzarnyah. because you don't have n8x0 yet09:00
KotCzarnyyou can test it in simulator09:00
woodwizzleDoes it scale to the speed and resolution of the n800?09:01
KotCzarnydon't know09:01
KotCzarnyyou should read docs :)09:01
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johnxI'm pretty sure it just emulates away as fast as your host computer is capable of09:02
KotCzarnyjohnx: it's not an emulator09:02
johnxKotCzarny, are you talking about qemu?09:02
KotCzarnynope, about x86 target09:02
KotCzarnyand xephyr09:03
johnxah, why would he test in that though? he asked about an emulator...09:03
KotCzarnybecause he ocnsiders buying IT09:03
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KotCzarnyand wanted to test some software first09:04
johnxah, right...I keep forgetting that you can't just compile for arm and run with qemu09:05
KotCzarnyyou can't09:05
* KotCzarny tries09:05
johnxI thought it didn't work all the time? why wouldn't he do that if it works?09:05
* johnx is confused, wanders off09:05
* johnx drinks coffee09:06
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KotCzarnyit wouldn't work if software uses unsupported instructions09:06
KotCzarnyor just tries to bang on hw09:06
johnxright, and most software I've tried ends up hitting unsupported functions, but in theory it works at least09:07
KotCzarnyupgrade qemu09:07
* johnx doesn't care enough...09:07
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Italodancewimax is available for n800?09:20
KotCzarnyin the same way as gsm/gprs/edge09:20
KotCzarny{standard input}:10283: Error: co-processor offset out of range09:23
KotCzarnyand it's in.. font_load_ft.c09:23
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KotCzarnyremoving -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp helped09:24
KotCzarny.26 looks broken hard :/09:27
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johnxItalodance, no09:27
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Italodancejohnx  where can i add fonts to n800?09:32
KotCzarnypsp2 concept design09:33
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ItalodanceKotCzarny nice!09:34
KotCzarnybigger res here09:34
ItalodanceKotCzarny where can i add fonts to n800?09:34
KotCzarnyitalodance: /usr/share/fonts/09:34
KotCzarnysomewhere below that dir09:34
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Italodance: /fonts/ yes or /usr/share/fonts/Nokia/ ?09:35
KotCzarnydon't know09:36
KotCzarnytry for yourself09:36
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KotCzarnygoogle error09:44
KotCzarnyTranslation from English into English is not supported.09:44
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amengHi, can mplayer on your n810 play rmvb video?09:49
KotCzarnyor maybe not09:50
KotCzarnyi think it only lists my codecs.conf file09:50
amengmine cannot,why?09:50
KotCzarnyprobably no open source decoder09:50
amengmplayer on my ubuntu pc can play09:51
KotCzarnythat's different09:51
KotCzarnybecause there's binary codec for x8609:51
KotCzarnyfew of them even09:51
amengyou mean lack of source of the codec for arm to compile?09:52
KotCzarnyor even lack of binary version09:52
KotCzarnyreleased by realmedia09:52
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woodwizzleDoes maemo have a decent PIM app?10:09
johnxkinda, sorta10:09
inzopenedhand and gpe are trying to fill that gap10:09
johnxpoke at gpe calendar and openhand pimlico dates and see if they're what you want10:10
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johnxPIM is not its strength but I actually like o-hand dates well enough10:10
wom-if you use google calendar you can view and add events with this
wom-its sitll early days for that though10:10
woodwizzledates looks good10:11
woodwizzleWhat about syncing my tomboy notes?10:11
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Navijohnx, sadly, development on it's been kind of dead10:29
NaviThe bug tracker piles up while no svn commits are made10:29
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prografToday Jamiroquai - High Times Singles 1992 - 200610:38
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inzjott, I wonder if vte 0.16 would bring anything new and fancy10:46
inzjott, tried yesterday, and it compiles -- and I could even "port" my maemo-changes to it10:46
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:01
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JaffaMorning, all11:05
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GatestoneAny ideas what's happening now when Nokia bought Trolltech?11:46
jaskaone could hope theyd be throwing away symbian :)11:47
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TheFoolanything good happen lately on the maemo front?11:48
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GatestoneAny feelings about Android here, have you looket at the toolkit?11:51
aquatixandroid is not what you would call `open'11:51
aquatixit's an interesting platform though11:51
GatestoneWhy is it not open?11:52
lirido you think nokia will ever put basic cellular capabilities in the internet tablet series?11:52
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aquatixeven if it's based on linux, they only open up the device for developers through their java platform11:52
aquatixsimilar to how existing linux-based dumbphones work11:53
aquatixexcept that android is a lot spiffier than that mini java11:53
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GatestoneHow about LiMo?I am just trying to figure out the future of phones, and it looks to me that it is Nokia/Symbian vs. Apple vs. Android vs. maybe something else?11:54
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GatestoneAnd I am not sure if the "something else" is viable, really.11:54
aquatix`something else' could be access' linux platform11:54
aquatixwhich i think is quite nice, but i'm not sure how many devices we will see with it11:55
aquatixfun thing is that nokia currently has 3 platforms; symbian s60, maemo and now qt11:55
aquatixmaybe we'll see qt phones11:55
GatestoneI am not really interested in my won perspective as a user, just trying to forecast the market in 10 years from now.11:55
aquatixthat'd be nice i guess11:56
aquatixi'm not sure how long symbian will live11:56
jaskahopefully not long11:56
aquatixlinux will have a large market share11:56
Gatestone(I have a N70 which is pretty lame, I am dreaming of an Android or iPhone...)11:56
MangoFusionpersonally i think android is quite a nifty idea. though its a pity you can (currently) only make apps for it in java11:56
aquatixand i think it heads to open phones [as in: easily developed for]11:56
aquatixMangoFusion: yeah11:57
aquatixit's really nice, but they only opened those abilities to their java layer11:57
aquatixotoh, java is a nice, object oriented language11:57
aquatixhowever, the android java is yet another dialect11:57
jaskajava nice?11:58
aquatixit's not the real java11:58
jaskathis is april 1st indeed11:58
GatestoneWhy I am on this channel, is that I should do a Maemo presentation for our (beginning) Linux developers.11:58
aquatixjaska: depends on your point of view ;)11:58
aquatixat *can* be nice :)11:58
aquatixi hope maemo sticks around11:58
MangoFusionthough should be possible to target other languages to it. just like there is JRuby, Jython, C for J2ME, etc11:58
aquatixfor the more serious devices11:58
aquatixMangoFusion: android's java != j2me11:59
aquatixfyi :)11:59
MangoFusionsure but i am just generalising here11:59
aquatixkk :)11:59
GatestoneI guess some kind of interpreted virtual machine standard would be nice for a phone platform, with device drivers offering higher performance functionality like multimedia or 3D graphics rendering.12:00
aquatixthat's exactly what android's doing12:01
Italodanceummm i want skin for mplayer   available???????????????12:01
aquatixso i think it's quite nice12:01
aquatixbut it's not an open linux phone platform12:01
blafaselBtw: I'd really like to see an OpenMoko phone finally12:04
MangoFusionanyone tried plonking the openmoko os on a NIT? ;)12:05
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aquatixMangoFusion: i like maemo better on my NIT ;)12:14
MangoFusionbut...but... you don't get a cool fullscreen phone dialer!12:14
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GatestoneI guess we haven't seen the final solution yet. There is room for some technological revelutions here.12:23
GatestoneBTW, look how one non-standard innovation can grab a lot of market, like Blackberry, or iPhone. So if you come up with a GOOD CHEAP phone, it does not matter which tech it uses internally.12:24
blafaselDepends. It does matter for those who care.12:30
blafaselIt doesn't matter for your investors if you happen to sell the iPhone PLUS, I give you that.12:31
LynoureI don't see Blackberry or iPhone very non-standard, just kind of continuation of Treo :)12:31
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GatestoneHere is my candidate for the future phone software revolution, presentation by Dennis Ritchie Ritchie mentions the PathStar softswitch, but does not mentione that Lucent also did an Inferno land line phone, and implemented hand-writing recognition for a test phone in the lab, using Plan 9 / Inferno.13:24
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eichiwhat about java for maemo? iwant to run josm, for openstreetmap13:30
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aquatixGatestone: whoa, a phone running plan 9?13:49
blafaselGatestone: Whoa, a link to a ppt file?13:50
aquatixyeah, that too :)13:50
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aquatixor, bye?13:54
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aquatixhm, i wonder when/if microb will be updated soonish with a newer version of gecko14:05
Jaffaaquatix: hopefully with today's (hopeful) release of diablo (maemo 4.1)14:08
aquatixooh :)14:09
aquatixthat'd be neat14:09
aquatixdangit, then i'll have to reinstall stuff14:09
aquatixoh well ;)14:09
JaffaLast time, as diablo is expected to bring in incremental upgrades.14:11
aquatixhow did i miss that? :)14:12
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blafaselJaffa: Same details about that? An announcement?14:18
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blafaselThe "Are we talking about the PC game" comment is sad, very sad..14:28
blafaselBut thanks for the link14:29
aquatixblafasel: hm, missed that comment :)14:29
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thux_n800can osso-xterm open browser like gnome-terminal?14:31
thux_n800from link14:32
JaffaNAFAIK :(14:33
thux_n800ok just it underlines link same way14:33
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Jaffathux: it's using the same library under the covers (vte) just doesn't implement the callback14:48
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ccookeOooh, that was odd.15:01
ccookeSudden reboot.15:01
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Mikhowould somebody know if N770 USB port supports OTG?15:29
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hullfandanI have a 770 (running os2007 hacker edition) and I can't seem to get root on it anymore. sudo gainroot works but I don't get prompted for a password and can't execute my app.  sudo su get a permission denied. Anyone got any clues to what I set up wrong. It's a while since I did it now so I am stumpted :/15:33
hullfandanactuall sudo su say that user user isn't allowed to execute /bin/su15:34
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hullfandananyone? even if it is just to tell me to go away :)15:35
Mikhousr/sbin/gainroot has never asked me for a password15:36
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hullfandaniirc it's best to just use gainroot once to set up user as a superuser so in future you just use 'sudo su'?15:38
* mgedmin never understands why people use 'sudo su' and not 'sudo -s'15:39
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hullfandanI have done that HowdoIbecomeRoot before but some time ago,15:41
hullfandangainroot seems to be working but I can't execute anything? any ideas why that might be15:41
hullfandanJust getting that I don't have persmisson to execute ./15:42
hullfandanwhich suggests I am not actually root15:42
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sp3000or the file does not have execute bit set15:45
felipecmgedmin: what's the difference?15:47
mgedminone uses two tools where one would suffice15:47
mgedminI suppose it's just a matter of elegance15:47
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blafaselhullfandan: What are you trying to do?15:51
inzhull, are you trying to run from a mmc card?15:51
blafaselsudo su doesn't work, because you probably didn't allow that in the /etc/sudoers (or the equivalent)15:52
hullfandanI am trying to run an application i developed. I am sure i have run it before but I could have forgot and updated it without setting execute bit. can i check this on maemo device?15:52
blafaselBut you seem to be mixing things anyway, somehow15:52
blafasells -l15:52
blafaselAnd you don't need root so far15:52
hullfandanI am pretty new to linux so appologies for any noobishness15:52
blafaselUnless you forgot to mention something ;)15:52
hullfandanI thought I needed root to ftp/ssh stuff to the device over wifi and to execute it?15:53
blafasells -l and look at the output. it should probably be -rwxr-x-- yourfile or something15:53
hullfandanyeah it is -rwxr-xr-x15:54
blafaselSo it is eXecutable15:54
blafaselYou can run it as it is.15:54
blafaselIf you are in that directory: ./yourapplication15:54
hullfandanI have run it in the past, so I am confused why it's no longer working15:54
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hullfandanoh ffs, it is running now :( but I changed notthing sobs15:55
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blafaselDid you use "./" at the start before as well?15:56
blafaselAre you sure that you were in the right directory?15:56
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hullfandanI think maybe I did that as root but just then I just did ./ before trying to become root15:56
felipecmgedmin: ahh15:57
hullfandanyeah, I was in the right dir and typed it right, I'm a noob but not that bad :)15:57
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hullfandanThanks for your help.15:57
blafaselI still don't understand what your problem was, but - you're welcome ;)15:57
hullfandanlol, :)15:58
hullfandanbasicaly I didn't need to become root. I just needed to run it.15:58
hullfandando you need to become root to ftp stuff to the device?15:58
blafaselHuh? You mean downloading files on the device?15:59
blafaselUploading to the device? Depending on the software used: No15:59
hullfandanyes, when I build a new version in scrathbox I am currently ftping it to the device15:59
hullfandanok, thanks15:59
pupnikyou have an ftp server on the device?15:59
aquatixcan't you better scp?15:59
blafaselftpint to the device translates to "FTP Server on the Nokia" to me15:59
aquatixjust a thought15:59
hullfandanwhat is scp. Anything that speeds up testing on the device would be great. It is a bit of a pain at the moment16:00
blafaselI think you are just downloading though, right? That's not bad at all. FTP is less secure than SSH, but it was meant for file transfers. So use it for that and don't even think about switching to HTTP (or using ssh if there's no incentive)16:01
hullfandanAlthough my new iGo keyboard is speeding things up a bit, even if my lack of experience slows things back down again :)16:01
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pupniki test on the device by mounting (as client) from the device a share on my scratchbox pc16:01
pupnikor by scp'ing the files to the device16:01
pupnikwhatever file transfer works is ok of course16:01
hullfandanare there any documents or tutorials on about the different ways to test on devices?16:02
hullfandanthat mounting option sounds good but I would rather go through a tutorial on setting that or other ways up instead of bothering you nice people :)16:02
hullfandanAll I could find was tutorial on creating debian packages which didn't work and seemed overkill for evaluating the simple stuff I was coding16:03
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aquatixscp works over ssh16:05
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hullfandanok, thanks. I think a tutorial showing beginers like myself how to do this would be really useful. Lots of stuff on how to get started coding but unless you want to make a package nothing on getting it onto the device and running it. Peopl on here have been great but a tutorial would make sense. Maybe I will write one when I actually understand what I am doing ;)16:07
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aquatixbasically you type something like "scp -p <sourcefile> <destination"; depending on if you do this on your tablet or your pc this may look like: "scp -p yourpc_username@ ./"16:11
aquatixhullfandan: are you on a *nix or windows machine?16:11
aquatixyou have a password for user `user' on your tablet?16:13
aquatixthen you can do something from your debian machine like this:16:13
aquatixscp -p yourfile user@ip-of-your-tablet:/path/to/destination16:13
aquatixand then it asks for the pw of `user'16:14
aquatixyou can even use ~/path/in/home after the `:'16:14
aquatixthe -p is for preserving file attributes, like date/time btw16:14
aquatixlike the -a in "cp -a file destination"16:15
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hullfandanthanks aquatix, just trying that now16:16
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aquatixjohnx: hm, mine seems to be larger16:25
* aquatix holds his tablet against his monitor16:25
hullfandanhmm, just getting a usage error aquatix. I thought it didn't like the -p flag but I tried it without and it still just cmae up with usuage options for scp16:25
johnxmy bad, something fell on my keyboard O_o16:26
aquatixhullfandan: can you paste the line here?16:26
aquatixjohnx: :)16:26
hullfandanscp -p bluevend user@
hullfandanit connects now but i get permisson denied16:28
hullfandanand i took the trailing / off as that is wrong i guess16:28
aquatixand if you try:16:29
aquatixscp -p bluevend user@
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aquatix[shouldn't really make a difference, but worth a try]16:29
aquatixdoes it ask for a password?16:30
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hullfandanstill permission denied, I double check password now.I am sure I just checked it when mesing around with gainroot though16:30
johnxtry without -p16:31
aquatixroot pw != user pw16:32
aquatixyou could try root@192. ...16:33
aquatixwith that password16:33
aquatixif you have remote ssh enabled for root16:33
hullfandani tried without -p and still permisson denied. I also just reset user password using passwd16:33
hullfandanworked as root16:34
hullfandanthank you very much16:34
aquatixyou're welcome16:34
hullfandanGot there in the end thank you for your patience16:34
jotthullfandan: you don't need ~/ or /home/user btw... the ":" translates to ~ - so just using "scp file user@ip:" should suffice16:35
jottstill you should be able to copy files as user to your user home dir ..16:35
aquatixjott: yeah, but you need to use the right password :)16:36
aquatixand i guess that hullfandan was using root's pw16:36
jottor just a ssh key ;)16:36
aquatixtrue :)16:36
* jott is too lazy to type passwords :)16:36
aquatixbut didn't want to bother hullfandan with that ;)16:36
hullfandanthanks, my brain already hurts :)16:37
blafaseljott: The key has no passphrase?16:37
aquatixblafasel: maybe he uses ssh-agent16:37
aquatixthen he only has to type the pw once16:38
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aquatixneed to implement that once16:38
blafaselYeah, but still. ;)16:38
blafaselImplement? It's fairly easy ;)16:38
aquatixyeah, but i'm lazy16:38
aquatixand busy16:38
* aquatix wonders what he's doing here16:38
blafaselYou save keystrokes and time afterwards, so both are satisfied16:38
aquatixneed to finish a paper and presentation in 2.5h16:39
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aquatixblafasel: true16:39
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* aquatix thinks /. forgot the date16:41
aquatixi miss my ponies16:41
henriquehi, is the "gpsbt" api the only alternative to communicate with the gps?16:41
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Jaffaaquatix: about time - last few years Slashdot's been useless from about 200x-03-31T16:00:00Z to 200x-04-02T10:00Z :-(17:02
JaffaAny interesting news from CTIA yet?17:03
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Jaffaaquatix: also shown on the BBC News this morning. Saw it, thought "that looks a bit computer generated" and then remembered the date17:05
tank-manis the flasher util for the n810 the same as the n800?17:05
aquatixJaffa: ah :)17:05
Jaffatank-man: yes17:05
johnxyup, 'cause the guts of the N800 are the same as the N81017:05
aquatixpics look quite ok though :)17:05
JaffaThe start of it looked really good when they're trying to take off17:05
JaffaAs April Fools go, it's the best I've seen this year (if a little obvious)17:06
mouradI want to install maemo-mapper on my computer but I need the package  "libgpsmgr-dev". Do anybody can give me some hints ?17:08
JaffaJFGI? ;-)17:08
johnxmaybe try and build it without libgpsmgr support?17:09
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mouradi tryed to install it but without result17:13
johnxtried to install it on your desktop? isn't it nokia closed source, arm-only?17:13
johnxlibgpsmgr I mean...17:14
mouradyes I tried on my desktop not on the NOKIA81017:15
mouradjohnx: with scratchbox and maemo chinook 4.17:16
johnxaaaah...ok, I see17:17
johnxAre you trying to get this running on your desktop to test it for the tablet or do you just want to use it?17:19
mouradjohnx: I downloaded the package from this link
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Italodancehow can i get this contacts icon?17:23
mouradjohnx: no just to test it before using it on the n81017:24
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jottItalodance: it's called personal menu -
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ricko73good morning...where do I find a missing 'libhildonfm2 (1:1.9.49)17:39
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aquatixhm, any idea why i can't choose a weather station in omweather?17:42
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Jaffaaquatix: that happened to me; I had to go to and add it manually17:47
aquatixhm, k17:48
aquatixbut it asks for a zip code17:49
aquatixand i try to set a Dutch city17:49
aquatix <- for example17:49
aquatixor shall i set NLXX0010 as zip?17:49
aquatixthat works17:50
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glassheheh has an april foolstoo18:35
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Cptnodegardfucking nokia18:41
Cptnodegardwhy cant they just disable the damn memory card when mounting with usb instead of complaining its in use when iuts not? -.-18:41
mgedminwhy do you think it's not?18:42
Cptnodegardwell the tablet has been sitting there doing nothing for 5 hours so if it really is in use, i'd like to know wtf its doing18:42
mgedminburning your battery by a bug in metalayer-crawler18:42
mgedminor filling up your swap file18:43
Cptnodegardplanning world domination by means of mmc1 :p18:43
ac7ssYou could just remove the card and use a reader on the other machine.18:43
||cwdo you have swap enabled?18:43
||cwI just use scp/sshfs18:43
Cptnodegardswap? virtual memory?18:43
mgedminsshfs rules18:44
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||cwyeah, sometimes it can't disable it for some reason18:44
mgedmin(except for not supporting df)18:44
ac7ssI prefer rsync.18:44
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Cptnodegardi use virtual memory but i got no apps running18:44
Cptnodegarda reboot fixed it18:45
||cwac7ss: rsync dosn't allow browsing or direct edits18:45
Cptnodegardmaemo_world_domination no longer running :p18:45
mgedminthat sounds like a bug to me18:45
mgedminthe kernel should be able to stop using swap, if there's enough free memory18:45
||cwi've had it not be able to several times18:46
lcddit doesn't work like that. the swap has to be disabled18:46
Cptnodegarduuh good boy gnumeric managed to open the excel file18:46
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* mgedmin is worried about the builtin 2gb flash on the n81018:49
mgedminsomething fishy is going on there18:50
mgedminI created a 1 gb filesystem with mkdosfs over usb there, and now I see it's 1.8 gb18:50
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mgedmindid I reformat it in my sleep, or what?18:50
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GeneralAntillesOr you didn't actually create the filesystem. :P18:53
mgedminI did18:58
mgedminI was testing the insane bug (fill up the partition with a big file, say goodbye to your partition table)18:58
mgedminmy current worst-case guess is there's only 1 GB of flash there, and writes to the second one just get silently redirected down to the first one18:58
mgedminI was not amused to see a blob of HTML that overwrote the MBR18:59
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derfmgedmin: The N810 apparently shipped with an invalid partition table on the internal card.19:04
derfIf that's what you're referring to (the fs in the partition table was larger than the physical card).19:04
scriptwff? only 1GB on internal flash?19:06
derfNo... it's a 2GB card, but like hdd manufacturers, there's 2GB and there's 2 GB.19:07
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scriptthats ok, i just tought it's only 1GB physically19:07
derfMaybe mgedmin is talking about something else... I had to practically fill the entire card to trigger it.19:07
mgedminderf: nope, that happened *after* I reformatted the too-large-2-gb to just-right-2-gb19:08
mgedminand filled up about *half* of it19:09
derfWell, that is a problem, then.19:09
derfI formatted mine as ext3, and all my problems went away.19:09
mgedminthen suddenly filesystem readonly; reboot -> filesystem does not exits at all, partition table nuked, FAT nuked19:09
mgedminmay be I should do that too19:09
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derf(I had _no_ _end_ of problems with FAT and the N800)19:09
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mgedminmy 4gb vfat sd card worked more or less reliably in the n80019:10
derfMaemo mapper would bork the kernel driver reliably in about 15 minutes.19:10
mgedminalthough one 512mb sd card just died in the external slot19:10
derfCard itself was totally fine, but nothing short of a full reboot would get it to work again.19:10
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Cptnodegardanyone used VNC? or what its called again that app that lets you stream the screen image to a computer19:19
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Cptnodegardyeah that. has anyone used it and can comment on stability?19:35
GeneralAntillesIt works fine.19:36
scriptdepends on the server .. not every one works at all19:37
Cptnodegardjust saw that people are making such a fuzz about the new intil MID being and its apparent ability to be able to use wireless displays19:37
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NaviIgnorance is the greatest hype19:40
NaviTake the iPhone for example: ZOMG A TOUCHSCREEN THATS NEW19:40
Cptnodegardits multitoouch!19:41
Cptnodegardso you can zoom stuff better19:41
Cptnodegardignore the fact there are devices that dont need zooming19:41
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NaviI prefer to spend less effort pressing a button once19:42
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myrenis xomap a driver for xorg or is it a separate x server?19:56
johnxseparate xserver based on kdrive19:57
johnxother kdrive servers: xfbdev xephyr19:57
* Cptnodegard pets claws email. finally rid of that useless internal shit19:59
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lcuk2johnx i forgot to ask since, whats happened with your screen problem - has it been cured or are you living with a disability20:01
lcuk2(i ask because someone came in with similar problem last night..)20:01
johnxit hasn't been acting up as much20:01
lcuk2fair enough then20:02
johnxin fact lately, almost not at all20:02
lcuk2is it colder ?20:02
lcuk2or have you stopped running things which heat it up20:02
johnxmaybe a little. I hesitate to draw conclusions like that though20:02
johnxI haven't been doing much hacking on debian on it20:02
lcuk2yer i know what you mean20:03
sp3000that's what the internet is for20:03
johnxwhich I think was a major cause of heat20:03
lcuk2but we are the internet20:03
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sp3000I think that means that from his perspective we should draw his conclusions harder20:04
lcuk2johnx :) either way im glad its become stablish20:05
johnxme too O_o20:05
fysado not even start to compare the UI for Maemo with the UI on the iPhone.  The iPhone requires less than half the number of taps/touches for everything.20:05
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elbon both pixels on its display!20:05
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lcuk2and how pray tell do i run vnc from iphone?20:05
lcuk2or ssh20:05
lcuk2or any number of specific applications20:05
fysathat's why this is so frustrating. :)20:05
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elbI looked at an iPhone yesterday, as a matter of fact20:06
fysaMaemo wins in every aspect *except* for ease/response.20:06
johnxfysa, I know what you mean20:06
elband was, once again, underwhelmed20:06
elbbut yeah, the interface is slick20:06
elband it sure is shiny!20:06
elb(rotating as you turn it, etc.)20:06
johnxI have a stack of arm devices here which each have one or two killer features20:06
elbalthough the rotation thing kind of sucks in that it has to be pretty vertical to work20:07
fysaI feel trapped in some backwards world.20:07
konttorihas anyone made any hildon desktop applets?20:07
konttoriI need to know how I can debug those?20:07
konttoriAs in how to get the command line prints to show somewhere20:08
sp3000they get syslogged, right? ...right?20:12
konttoriso, cat /var/log/syslog .... hmm... I'll have to try that. Thanks!20:13
konttoriI only need to now get errors again... ;)20:15
konttoriI'm *so* close to getting sdl to run as desktop applet20:16
konttoriI already got pygame to run inside gtk window.20:16
konttoriso, it's just some tuning now left20:17
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konttorithere is no syslog in the /var/log. Am I looking at the wrong place?20:19
johnxno, no syslogd at all I think on itos20:20
johnxps auxc | grep syslog20:20
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sp3000package is in sdk repo20:23
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Italodancelame_3.97_maemo.tar.gz  OHO!20:39
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Italodancedosen't show any icon in my menu  why?20:45
Italodanceos 2008  maybe it is 2007 yes?20:45
GeneralAntillesIt's a console application.20:45
GeneralAntillesOpen xterm20:46
GeneralAntillestype 'irsii'20:46
johnxand hit enter20:46
Italodanceur mean it can works only with x-term yes?20:46
GeneralAntillesItalodance, you'd really be better off with xchat.20:46
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Italodancexchat yes cool :D20:47
ItalodanceGeneralAntilles  xmms has icon in menu?20:47
GeneralAntillesIf you're having trouble getting irsii open, you're not gonna get much further once it's open.20:48
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derfIt might also help if you spelled it irssi.20:49
ItalodanceGeneralAntilles  xmms has icon in menu?  or need to open it only with x-term?20:49
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: If you're having trouble getting irssi open, you're not gonna get much further once it's open.20:50
GeneralAntillesI blame smoke inhalation, derf. :P20:50
* GeneralAntilles 's building caught fire a couple hours ago.20:50
inzirsii sounds like ircii ;)20:51
lcuk2thats not good, did you get all your nokias to safety?20:51
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's what I mixed up with, inz.20:51
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GeneralAntillesJust the N800 and the cat. :P20:51
lcuk2good plan GeneralAntilles hope it wasnt serious20:52
GeneralAntillesIt was a couple floors down and on the other side of this building.20:52
GeneralAntillesNah, just a couple apartments were damaged.20:52
derfYou have a Nokia cat?20:52
lcuk2kitchen fire?20:52
GeneralAntillesI think the second one was mostly smoke.20:52
lcuk2or was it acecat20:52
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lcuk2:D lolcat20:52
GeneralAntillesDunno what started it.20:52
GeneralAntillesThe firedepartment evidently has a really awesome system for clearing smoke out, though.20:53
GeneralAntillesOpen the window, put a giant fan in the doorway.20:53
GeneralAntillesFlies out of there at a million miles an hour.20:53
lcuk2probably the glint from steve jobs field of awesome caught on some lesser piece of kit20:53
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GeneralAntillesThe RFD repeater I keep in the closet went crazy and tried to kill all the Windows machines. :P20:54
lcuk2its student digs isnt it?20:54
lcuk2that same contraption is used to blow the pot at the frat boys dorm20:54
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lcuk2holy moly! that looks like my former cat20:55
lcuk2got any eyes open shots20:56
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GeneralAntillesLittle better. :P20:56
GeneralAntillesDon't think I have anything else handy.20:56
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lcuk2enough to tell the difference yer20:58
lcuk2i was just digging through my photos, unfortunately he passed a couple of years ago so theres a lot to dig through20:58
GeneralAntillesShe's 11 now.20:59
GeneralAntillesHaven't lost a pet in a while, thankfully.20:59
lcuk2only things we lost recently are hamsters - when squeek passed we got a couple of young cats from the sanctury :)21:00
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lcuk2one is a long haired black and his gay best mate :) missus wanted kittens but i was heartbroken and didnt wanna leave em there21:00
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GeneralAntillesIt's announced.21:11
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: "it" being Virgle or something Maemo related?21:15
GeneralAntillesQ2 200821:16
GeneralAntillesHopefully that doesn't mean June. :\21:16
JaffaWhy isn't ITT news on pmo anymore?21:16
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JaffaGatestone: you know Nokia - they *always* push deadlines to the latest possible21:16
JaffaBah. Bad BitchX21:16
GeneralAntillesI was wondering.21:16
inzJaffa, guess why I don't use tab completion ;)21:16
GeneralAntillesI didn't think I had more than one person in here on my ignore list. :P21:17
Jaffainz: I didn't - it was ':' completion, irritatingly.21:17
inzJaffa, ah, indeed, now I remember what BiaatchX did21:17
inzJaffa, I used it some time, but only for the ascii artz21:17
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zedstar_so is wimax available in europe any where yet?21:20
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Jaffazedstar_: UK best bet is which has trials in some places21:20
zedstar_thanks jaffa that site appears down right now21:21
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* GeneralAntilles wants to know what the connection dialog looks like for WiMAX21:23
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Jaffa confirms update brings "seamless software update"21:24
GeneralAntilles3 hours on WiMAX. :<21:25
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MangoFusion"3 hours on WiMAX"21:26
GeneralAntillesBe nice if the SSU also means they can push updates to things like MicroB more than once every 6 months.21:26
MangoFusionhey, i might as well just use my phone21:26
GeneralAntillesThat's about the same use time I get out of my handset with 3g.21:26
zedstar_how easy/expensive is it for joe public to install there own wimax base station/router? the kit expensive or require licenses?21:26
blafaselGeneralAntilles: Nice question, regarding the connection dialog21:27
blafaselThe current dialog probably doesn't scale for 2-3 miles of range. ;-p21:27
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GeneralAntillesWonder what the icon looks like, too.21:27
GeneralAntillesAre they gonna have international versions?21:28
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GeneralAntilles"N810 WiMAX Edition is only available in the US"21:28
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Cptnodegardwimax is dooomed21:29
megabyte405seamless software update is presumably Diablo21:30
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megabyte405it's been a roadmap feature since the days of Bora21:30
GeneralAntillesYes, we know it's Diablo.21:30
blafaselWhat's with that link? Dead for me21:31
megabyte405wow, diablo "in the second quarter of the year"?  I might jump right from bora to diablo on my n800...21:31
GeneralAntillesNokia's being stupid and dynamic or something21:32
blafaselTalking about the link?21:32
GeneralAntillesblafasel, check out their press photos for the N810WE21:32
Jaffamegabyte405: yes - it's been on the roadmap, but there's no guarantee they'd've delivered it21:33
GeneralAntillesThere's a giant lump on the back of it like the N800. :P21:33
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KotCzarnydon't forget today is april 1st21:33
* KotCzarny yawns21:33
KotCzarnywait with analysis till tomorrow21:33
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KaaLiits just rude to play ppl like that21:36
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GeneralAntillesYeah, don't play ppl!21:37
KaaLi*with   :D21:38
cymacsdoes anybody know how to convert gps data saved with gps_saver to gpx or anything else?21:40
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tsukasaOMG N900 announced21:41
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GeneralAntillesClever, tsukasa.21:42
tsukasahey theres 288 people here21:42
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tsukasamightve gotten one or two for a second21:42
tsukasayoud be suprised how many people are oblivious to the date21:43
elbyou'd be surprised how many people see 'OMG' and dismiss the remainder of what a person says21:43
ralanni will believe nothing till tomorrow21:43
ralannOMG a nokia brain implant21:44
megabyte405using bluetooth 3.0!21:44
tsukasaralann, what if you use gmail to send yourself an important message back in time warning you of your impending doom?21:44
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doc|works/impending doom/this conversation21:46
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aquatix already posted here?21:47
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KotCzarnyapril first21:47
KotCzarnywait till tomorrow21:47
aquatixKotCzarny: guy i know from nokia says this one is official :)21:47
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KotCzarnyapril 1st21:48
aquatixKotCzarny: also look at the pictures21:48
* aquatix is not *that* stupid ;)21:48
ralanni say tomorrow21:48
GeneralAntillesIt's real, duh. :\21:48
lcdd"do not show this dialog again." i could use a few of those21:49
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aquatixlcdd: yeah21:49
doc|workI fucking hate april 1st21:49
doc|workreal news is bad enough without an official day of fake news21:50
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ralannim hiding in my house all day and am not turning the tv on21:50
doc|workthis is as far as I'm delving into the internet today21:51
KotCzarnystop posting aplil fools links21:51
doc|workKaaLi: hey man, give it time, that one may come true yet21:51
KaaLiif it goes down as it has been goin lately..  some day it might happen..21:52
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doc|worknah, if anything they're trying to push the US into some north american currency21:52
KaaLi10 USD = 1 euro in 201021:52
doc|worki.e. more of the same, only you have even less chance of being influential21:52
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doc|worknow I know why I hate april 1st, it makes every site on the internet read like a bad copy of the onion21:54
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KotCzarnythere are layers, all the way to the bottom21:56
KotCzarnyturtles have layers21:56
KotCzarnyonion has layers21:56
KotCzarnyturtles have layers21:57
* doc|work read that as lawyers21:57
pupnikturtles h21:57
MangoFusionsome of the more annoying april fools jokes are ones where the fooler starts the fooling before april 1st21:57
pupnikme too21:57
doc|workwas thinking, why the fuck would turtles need lawyers21:57
KaaLidepends about timezone21:58
aquatixdoc|work: heh, me too :)21:58
MangoFusionKaaLi: this is days before21:58
ricko73where do I find a missing libhildonfm2 (1:1.9.49)21:59
aquatixgoogle? :)22:00
ricko73google didn't help much22:00
ricko73there were very few links to libhildonfm2 that were specific to the nokia n-series22:00
megabyte405ricko73: make sure you are using the right version of the sdk22:00
megabyte405you may be compiling chinook software on bora22:01
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ricko73megabyte405: I have an as received n81022:01
KotCzarnyapt-cache search hildonfm22:01
megabyte405oh, I see, you are installing22:01
megabyte405First, upgrade your firmware (reflash - it will erase everything) before you get further22:02
ricko73I'll have to ask the package maintainer (for roadmap --a gps/mapping program) how he had it compiled22:02
ricko73I think I have the latest version22:02
megabyte405you'll need software with a OS2008 version22:02
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megabyte405If you just got it from the factory you probably don't22:02
ricko73I thought that was the latest22:03
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GeneralAntilles51-3 is latest.22:03
ricko73Ok.  Thanks.  I guess I'll have to reflash (then redownload the apps I installed)22:04
* aquatix wonders when Diablo will be available for download22:04
aquatixQ2 has already begun :)22:04
KotCzarnyit will be when it will be22:04
KaaLibackup first22:04
aquatixKotCzarny: true22:04
ricko73KaaLi: thx22:04
aquatixjust wondering :)22:05
KotCzarnybetter port/write new software22:05
KotCzarnythan simply consuming new shinyness22:05
GeneralAntillesJudging by the state of Modest, it's probably going to be a little while longer.22:05
aquatixi will22:06
aquatixwhen i'm done being so freaking busy22:06
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aquatixGeneralAntilles: that's ok, i prefer having a polished flash22:06
aquatixhopefully with an updated gecko22:06
JaffaGeneralAntilles: shows the bump22:08
JaffaAnd has the connection dialogue (and Xohm logo in the status bar)22:09
KotCzarnylooks shopped22:09
JaffaKotCzarny: it's getting a little tiring now; this is official, OK? :)22:09
DavieyHas anyone worked out how to use .install files from the console?22:09
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JaffaDaviey: some form of DBus invocation's your best bet, I reckon22:09
KotCzarnyjaffa: just kidding, but i will seriously wait for tomorrow22:09
ricko73yeah, I'm nervous installing anything today22:10
konttoriAh. hey, we've launched the wimax apparently22:10
DavieyJaffa: seriously?!22:10
JaffaKotCzarny: OK, but everytime someone mentions it, can you not type two lines: one containing an 2008-04-01 reference and the other a smiley? Please?22:11
konttoriJaffa: Yeah, seamless updates is really nice feature22:11
aquatixJaffa: /ignore? ;)22:11
Jaffakonttori: very cool; now, can we have a diablo beta? :)22:11
konttoriWe've been working really hard to gt it just right22:11
Jaffaaquatix: a *little* harsh, perhaps22:11
aquatixJaffa: nah ;)22:11
* aquatix ducks while KotCzarny throws an old 770 with sharpened edges to his head22:12
konttoriJaffa: Interesting question.22:12
KotCzarnyno 770s here22:12
Jaffakonttori: glad to hear it. Does it mean we're likely to see more updates to the components, or are upgrades still going to be one or two times a year affairs?22:12
KotCzarnyand i like my 800 too much22:12
KotCzarnybut i can throw an old ipod22:12
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doc|workanyone got info on changes to OS?22:13
konttoriCan't confirm, but at least I can say that it should be easier for the end users to receive incremental updates.22:13
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GeneralAntilles /ignore works nicely.22:13
lcuk2yes, nokia are proud to announce they are working with microsoft to release Windows Vista N series edition ;)22:13
konttoriWith flashing, it's not nice to flash a small patch and have to reinstall everything22:13
konttoriSo, at least SSU is enabler for that22:14
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I really hope so.22:14
konttoriAlso, SSU also allows 3rd party (that's you guys) application updates22:14
Jaffakonttori: cool, hopefully the project planners will take advantage of the "release early, release often" approach and not still fall back on big-bang releases.22:14
aquatixdoc|work: has some stuff22:14
aquatixmeh, stupid lag22:14
GeneralAntillesIt'd be awfully stupid of them not to leverage this for more smaller releases.22:14
Jaffakonttori: aren't we supposed to have that already with App Manager?22:14
Jaffakonttori: or does SSU totally replace App Mgr?22:15
GeneralAntillesWho knows, though, the UI spec probably has something in there about only updating once every 6 months. <_<22:15
JaffaGeneralAntilles: :)22:15
lcuk2konttori, is this update process in response to things which could be easily patched but which full flash hassle prevents?  if so - what fixes have you got lined up?22:15
konttoriWell, now end users will actually get notified directly of new updates to 3rd party apps as well22:15
KaaLiill believe that tomorrow..  :P22:15
doc|workaquatix: thanks22:15
konttorilcuk2: indeed. No idea what we might patch/fix/whatnot though22:16
GeneralAntillesI'd _really_ like to see MicroB back on the update-every-few-weeks schedule.22:16
lcuk2excellent :)22:16
GeneralAntillesEspecially with how fast Gecko is moving.22:16
Jaffakonttori: sounds interesting. Now, the two things which depress me: a) I'm sure the maemo community could've had some good contributions to make to the UI and spec of SSU; b) we're not going to get to see it/play with it before end-users do. So the power-users who help users on ITT etc. will not be ahead of the game.22:16
doc|workalso, is the price of the wimax more than the n810 or is a drop in the vanilla n810 price expected?22:17
aquatixGeneralAntilles: yeah22:17
* Jaffa doubts anyone but sales & marketing could answer that22:17
doc|workok, thought someone might have seen an answer somewhere22:17
GeneralAntillesN810 already had a small drop to $43922:18
konttoriHehey!!! Check it out:,recent22:18
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konttoriI got interviewed yesterday.22:18
konttoriAnd it's live now.22:18
konttoriAhh.. the correct link:,articles,41422:18
konttoriThat was a crash interview: I got notified 5 minutes prior. Then  I called new york, talked for an hour on the phone and blam. That's what you see.22:19
ricko73GeneralAntilles: I bought my n810 from Amazon for under $40022:19
GeneralAntillesricko73, that's MSRP22:20
GeneralAntillesStreet has little to do with MSRP. :P22:20
konttoriJaffa: SSU is really so simple piece UI wise that there was no need to notify anyone.22:20
ralanni got mine for $36522:20
KaaLiit stil says april 1st..22:20
Jaffakonttori: fair enough22:20
ricko73understood.  didn't realize that MSRP actually changed after a device was initially released22:20
Jaffakonttori: so there'll be no bugs or wishes that the UI did such & such? :)22:20
konttoriNope. It's just perfect  ! ;)22:21
KaaLino1 will remember n810wimax next week...  :D22:21
Jaffakonttori: all bugs straight assigned to you then ;-)22:21
konttoriPlease, go ahead.22:21
* lcuk2 also writes "perfect" software. strange how theres always something missed ;)22:21
KotCzarnylcuk: rotate22:22
lcuk2THANK YOU :D22:22
* Jaffa had a "perfect" Java web framework componentisation earlier today. This evening additional unit tests are failing :-/22:22
konttorirotation won't make it. Sorry.22:22
lcuk2it will in my kernel tonight :)22:22
lcuk2ive been writing a fullscreen fullspeed tear free renderer thing and i wanna see things from a different perspective22:23
Jaffakonttori: your interview references "Web Runtime" - wassat?22:23
KotCzarnypixel perfect?22:23
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lcuk2better than it was, im just finishing picking up freetype and getting the aspect ratio better22:24
glassJaffa: widgets for s6022:24
glassJaffa: web pages that look like programs22:24
KotCzarnydon't forget about subpixel order22:24
KotCzarnyunless you don't use subpixel rendering?22:24
glassJaffa: basically you make a zip, send it over, it installs the page as an app to the app browser...22:24
lcuk2im in yuv so its not that important22:24
glassJaffa: and launches it without the browser full gui22:25
Jaffaglass: "Q: What can people expect from the latest N810? A: [...] Especially now that we have great Python bindings and the support for Web Run-Time, the community should find it very easy to create the same kind of applications that Apple is doing on their dashboard.@22:25
JaffaSo not just for S60 anymore. Will have to look into a bit more22:25
lcuk2well which order should i put my pixels, grey, grey, grey or grey, grey, grey ???22:25
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glassJaffa: i guess they've got it over there too then, like said, just web pages that look more like proper programs22:25
Jaffalcuk2: no - grey, grey, grey22:25
KotCzarnyno, grey gray grey grey22:25
glassJaffa: new n95 firmware has it22:25
konttoriwell, web runtime applets are now at your disposal for the desktop22:25
KotCzarnyalpha gray22:26
Jaffaglass: interesting. Hopefully ones working for S60 (for which I assume there's an existing community) should work without modification on ITOS22:26
glassJaffa: i'd assume many of the s60 widgets to assume the screen sizes to be small22:26
Jaffakonttori: cool. Is the responsiveness of the desktop and general usability of the home screen OK?22:26
lcuk2konttori :) hope the rollout goes smoothly.    ill b back later22:26
konttoriThey run on gecko engine, so you probably can run pretty much anything with them22:26
glassJaffa: dunno about the community yet as it's not really on too many devices22:27
GeneralAntilles"Update All"22:27
konttoriJaffa: Well, it's doing quite fancy 'server rendering' of the widgets22:27
glassJaffa: i was rather surprised they ported it back to n95, the nokias browser guy didn't promise that last june22:27
JaffaAh, fair enough. New then. Still, leveraging the larger sales and communities (and hype) of the N95 et al should help us as users22:27
KotCzarnyok, bbl22:27
JaffaGeneralAntilles: indeed, two little words with so much joy22:27
glassJaffa: yeah, i'd imagine it will be used for weather applets and the like.. small information displayers22:28
GeneralAntillesHopefully it's stopped crashing after every 3rd install. <_<22:28
konttoriAnyway, as I said in the interview, the python desktop applet bindings are really cool as well. I totally recommend checking them out even now.22:28
glassJaffa: it's a very easy way for web devs to get something 'cool' running on a phone easily so i'd expect the community to grow rapidly soon22:28
GeneralAntillesNice interview, konttori.22:29
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konttoriGA: what was crashing every 3rd install?22:30
GeneralAntillesApplication manager22:30
GeneralAntillesIt's not that regular22:30
konttoriIt was crashing every 3rd? Odd. Anyway, it's stable now.22:30
GeneralAntillesBut it was a pain when I was trying to restore everything after a flash about a month ago.22:31
Jaffakonttori: yeah, it was a good interview.22:32
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konttoriLet's see how well the device sells. I honestly have no idea how big the market will be for XOHM network, what's the price point of the device or anything like that.22:34
GeneralAntillesSeems there's no mention of non-US models yet. :\22:35
GeneralAntillesThat could put a dampener on things.22:35
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konttoriI hope it will sell well though. I would say that the keyboard has better feel than n81022:35
konttoriGA: That will depend on how well wimax networks are sold elsewhere.22:35
frekihello every body22:36
konttoriCurrently Sprint is really on top of the wimax game22:36
GeneralAntillesCanada has very strong coverage with Rogers.22:36
konttorithe special part about the n810 WE and the sprint network is that it allows you to 'switch' cells on the fly like GSM phone switches them while yo are on the move.22:36
frekii have a probleme for update my 770 tu OS2006, does somebody can help me ?22:36
JaffaAIUI, Canada's got the best WiMAX coverage in the world22:36
konttoriWell, go ahead and call your nearest Rogers to stock them up!22:37
Jaffakonttori: so, hectic time until 31st June getting it ready for release and then rolling out to depots. Then you moving on to the N900?22:37
elbI'd be shocked if 15% of Canada was covered22:38
GeneralAntillesHehehe, Jaffa.22:38
elbI guess it depends on how you define 'best'22:38
konttoriJaffa: if you only knew...22:38
konttoriBut yeah, it's hectic at the moment22:38
* GeneralAntilles wants OMAP322:38
* GeneralAntilles wants OMAP3 baaaad22:38
JaffaGeneralAntilles: it was worth a try ;-)22:38
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* aquatix just wants peace in has damn head22:39
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GeneralAntillesI still say we should get a retirement fund started for Texrat.22:39
Jaffaaquatix: the sound of drums again?22:39
aquatixJaffa: the sound of deadlines zipping by at light speed22:39
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konttoriJaffa: Did it say somewhere that the device is out on 31st of june?22:48
Jaffa2Q2008. I'm trying to be realistic/pessimistic/cynical.22:48
* konttori actually doesn't know that date.. We've been more concerned on the dates the firmware has to go to the factory lines.22:48
KaaLifirst of all..   is it ever out..  still april 1st..  :D22:49
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* Jaffa doesn't remember a time when Nokia haven't used all the time available to them when giving a deadline like that22:49
JaffaKaaLi: it's official. If I hear any more "it's an April Fools' joke" comments, I swear I'm going to scream :)22:49
konttoriJaffa: Also, Diablo doesn't have the 'same' WRT support as n95, as we have gecko, symbian has webkit.22:49
KaaLijaffa: like a little girl..?22:50
konttoriOf course the result should be the same.22:50
ralanni would believe it till tomorrow22:50
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Jaffakonttori: yeah, I'll believe that when I see it. Advanced widgetry compatible across render engines?22:51
glasskonttori: i havent been following, did they add nokia spesific apis for wrt?22:51
JaffaKaaLi: No, like someone trying to discuss something seriously whilst also trying to meet work deadlines22:51
konttoriglass: I haven't been involved directly on the WRT part, so can't comment on the specifics.22:53
JaffaKaaLi: sorry, it's just it's not a new joke :)22:53
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, how much you wanna bet it wont be out until late July? :P22:53
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GeneralAntillesOr maybe Diablo [i]is[/i] OS2009 and it's coming out in November. :D22:53
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GeneralAntilles. . . proof positive that I've been spending too much time on ITT.22:54
pupnikthe diablo thread was pretty funny22:56
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JaffaI think your prolific posting rate is sign of that!22:56
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GeneralAntillesThat post by robin in the "I don't understand" thread made me laugh.23:00
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KotCzarnyi think jott's xomap patch still breakes xv23:18
MangoFusionupdated your kernel?23:19
* lcuk2 . o O ( maybe i won't install rotate after all )23:20
KotCzarnyno, it rotates ok23:20
KotCzarnylcuk, but it may be only my n80023:20
KotCzarnyi would like you to test it23:20
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KotCzarnyso i won't run in circles23:20
lcuk2by the way, i have dpi free scaling of fonts now :) i dropped sdl_ttf :)23:20
GeneralAntillesNow with less suck!23:20
KotCzarnymango: problem i have with kernel23:21
KotCzarnyerm. with mplayer23:21
lcuk2at the 225dpi this device is at a 16 point font is massive :)23:21
KotCzarnyand it's too hot to think23:21
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lcuk2GeneralAntilles, it never sucked anyway - i discovered why you didnt get full speed and added a later -turbo option and stuff23:21
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lcuk2i wonder if we can mirror23:22
lcuk2not just rotate23:22
KotCzarnyxrandr should do rotation and mirroring23:22
KotCzarnyi can't test right now because i have tried reflashing original kernel23:23
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GeneralAntilles-turbo sets 400MHz all the time?23:24
lcuk2im glad i took out the sdl_ttf ref :) its another less thing to worry about having installed23:24
lcuk2no, turbo adjusts the omdemand threshhold for the run of the program23:24
lcuk2its doing so little and optimised so well that its under the default 80% that its set to23:24
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Jaffalcuk2: what are you actually full screen rendering?23:24
GeneralAntillesRight, I remember23:24
lcuk2just test23:25
lcuk2and lines and dots and maybe circles when i put the code in23:25
lcuk2and pictures when i get a yuv jpeg loader ;)23:25
Jaffaah, so proof-of-concept type stuff23:25
lcuk2yer im just playing - i want fullscreen tear free screen updates23:25
lcuk2(for a book reader)23:26
lcuk2oh kot, i also dug out my pdf parser23:26
KotCzarnywhy not using poppler?23:26
KotCzarnyunless you want only text from pdfs23:26
lcuk2wanna see how full pdf pages look at tearfree :)23:26
lcuk2ive wrote loads of tiny mods to play with different aspects of it - like the starfield23:27
lcuk2and the book test23:27
lcuk2and a little drawing proggy23:27
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Jaffalcuk2: cool23:28
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lcuk2it certainly is, i just need to learn enough about licensing and repos and blogs and all that jibe so i can get them tested and see what we can do with them (if anything)23:29
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lcuk2web and or server space isnt that expensive nowadays is it?23:30
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lcuk2or am i best of sticking to googlepages or blogger or something23:30
KotCzarnydepends how reliable you need it to be23:31
Jaffagarage project?23:32
jottlcuk2: using some ready service will probably shorten the time until we see your code :P23:32
KotCzarnyjott: i believe xomap randr patch is buggy..23:32
GeneralAntilleslcuk2, remember, release early, release often. ;)23:32
KotCzarnyi can't play videos using nokia770 or xv drivers23:32
KotCzarnywith mplayer23:32
lcuk2jaffa im not a member.. but membership has bonuses doesnt it23:32
jottrotated or not rotated?23:33
KotCzarnydoesn't matter23:33
KotCzarnyblack screen23:33
jotthm i bet you have v1 ;)23:33
KotCzarnyi have reinstalled newer package23:33
Jaffalcuk2: indeed, such as increased karma => better chance of discount on next device23:33
jottKotCzarny: of kernel23:33
KotCzarnykernel too23:33
lcuk2jaffa :) i read that, i may just have to joinup then23:33
lcuk2the garage has cvs doesnt it23:34
KotCzarnybut i have tried flashing original kernel (unpatched)23:34
Jaffalcuk2: svn, so even better23:34
KotCzarnyjott: i have to test it still23:34
lcuk2fairy muff23:34
jottKotCzarny: please do so23:34
KotCzarnyhow to update to original xomap?23:34
jottjust dpkg -i xser*deb23:34
KotCzarnyahm, so no apt-get type automation?23:35
KotCzarnyor --force-reinstall ?23:35
jottno.. due to osso-software-version borkness23:35
KotCzarnyi should find the deb then23:35
KotCzarnybtw. using rotation command on unpatched kernel + patched xomap is fun ;)23:36
lcuk2lol @ rollback procedures ;)23:37
KotCzarnythis one is ok?23:37
jottif there where any debs :)23:37
KotCzarnysilly me23:37
jottyeah it seems to be missing23:37
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KotCzarnyhow can i get a server name from which deb would be taken?23:43
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oobNokia Nerds23:44
oobthere! ->23:45
KotCzarnyblack space23:45
KotCzarnynothing's there23:45
oobi see nerd people and some of them.. here!23:45
KotCzarnyi see nothing23:45
KotCzarnymaybe i'm not nerdish enough23:46
KotCzarnyor too much23:46
celestehhey, so if you put gps city guide and maemo mapper togther in a cage fight . . . .23:46
celestehare they complimentary or competing?  Which is better?23:47
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celestehah, i see they share maps23:51
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celestehso does city guide know about POIs ahead of time based or do I need to add them myself?23:52
celestehLike, if I say I'm in London, does it know about the Tate Modern?23:53
celestehah, i have found the answers to my questions23:54
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celestehthis is very cool.  nice app!23:55
KotCzarnywe were glad to help23:56
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celestehi just went to 2008 this evening.  there are all kinds of new apps since i last updated anything23:56
celestehsomebody went out and wrote all the toys i wanted!23:57
KotCzarnyand there will be more23:57
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KotCzarnybecause it's so simple to create new apps23:58
KotCzarnyonly limit is device speed23:58
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celestehgpscamera also seems cool.  what i really want is something that will read a gps track, look at the time on the photo and figure out where it must have been taken23:59

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