IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-03-22

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KaaLiproblem with rdesktop..     possible to get any other keyboard layot to it...    it has US one i think..     i could use finnish..00:10
||cwdoens't it just use what the host uses?00:12
KaaLinope...    if i type to web browser it uses finnish layout00:14
KaaLilike / is hard to use with that rdesktop00:15
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KaaLiand any oher mix00:15
KaaLiother key from mixed kb..  :D00:15
KotCzarnycan you switch desktop to us kb?00:15
KotCzarnyand i think you can set tablet to finnish kb too00:16
KaaLii thik it uses finnish layout cuz it gives keys out it suppose to..   everywhere else but in rdesktop00:17
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KotCzarnyyou can try vnc..00:17
KaaLirdesktop uses US layout for some reason00:17
KotCzarnyif anything else fails :)00:17
KaaLisure i can..   but it requires installin server00:17
KotCzarnytightvnc is a free one00:18
KotCzarnyand easy to setup00:18
GeneralAntillesHrm, I really wonder what's going on with texrat and his internal blogging.00:18
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pupnik  Nokia R&D showing off accelerated OpenGL ES on N810, 2:06 and 2:09-2:13 in the video00:25
KotCzarnybut it was posted already?00:26
pupnikyeah some ppl might have missed it00:26
KotCzarnyah, ok00:26
glassi missed it00:26
glassvery nice00:26
KotCzarnypupnik: start a blog? :>00:26
glassi'm here so i don't need to read blogs00:27
pupnikglass, so how do we get them to share it? :)00:27
glasspupnik: dunno. violence pops to mind00:27
KotCzarnyviolence against international corp?00:28
KotCzarnybad idea00:28
pupnikWell i will write a begging email now00:28
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glassa little letter bomb always brings things to attention00:28
KotCzarnyor uploads all their harddrives to p2p00:29
lcuk_2it doesnt ring true that all processing is occuring on the 810 -> the sketch app displays at fullscreen without showing maemo borders.  the ogl anim is full detailed on big screen and laughably simple on maemo00:30
lcuk_2i think its a set of mirrored programs running on a proper machine rather than hard processing for 2 displays00:30
GeneralAntillesThe PowerVR is either in the USB dongle or the dongle on the TV.00:32
GeneralAntillesAs far as I've been able to gather, anyway.00:32
KotCzarnylcuk: still, could be a nice app to have00:33
KotCzarnyespecially if they add divx decoding :>00:33
lcuk_2at the start he plugs it into the standard nokia usb cable which (i assume) goes into a usb hub on the monitor (or under it).  the monitor data cable itself falls to the ground as if it was going to a tower box - if he just connected it into a usb display dongle the monitor data cable would curl back up into the dongle00:34
lcuk_2(incidentally, i sit my nokia under the monitor like that)00:35
GeneralAntillesI was going on more what was said than random crap from the YouTube video. :P00:35
pupniklcuk_2: your analysis looks correct.  Also the resolutions of the scrolling images in the picture viewer are different00:35
Tama^2I think it's funny that there is allegedly not enough bandwidth to use the on board powerVR but something like that is attempted00:36
GeneralAntillesWhy, Tama^2?00:36
Cptnodegarddoes canola have a file limit or is it just retarded by default?00:38
lcuk_2the framebuffer sits in regular memory, if we can fill that memory with data from anywhere it canl be displayed.  its resolution can be altered to anything reasonable and the lcd handles it fine.  it handles plenty of formats.  nokia, why cant we have the .ko intended for the powervr?00:38
Tama^2because I feel the hardware is so badly broken I am disappointed00:38
GeneralAntillesCptnodegard, the term you're looking for is "beta".00:38
pupnikfor the price of a kindle i'd take a N800 plus kbd00:38
Tama^2external display is cool.. .but I want a fully working unit before I want nice extras available00:38
Cptnodegardit keeps updating just some of the music in the watched folder00:38
yllusGeneral Antilles? Nice to see that Wedge got a promotion or two00:39
lcuk_2pup, so you would also be happy if it worked in black and white then? :D00:39
GeneralAntillesExtended universe, yllus.00:39
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GeneralAntillesTama^2, it's not like they can do anything about the bandwidth issues after manufacture00:40
GeneralAntillesand these guys don't really have anything to do with Nokia proper.00:40
yllusI only got through the first bunch of books. When they introduced the dude who stole the Sun Crusher... meh.00:40
Tama^2I know, mine is just "the cry of the disappointed geek"(tm)00:40
GeneralAntillesN900 will fix all.00:41
GeneralAntillesI know it. :D00:41
edistarGeneralAntilles: will it have gsm?00:41
GeneralAntillesI fucking hope not.00:41
KotCzarnyit's not even announced00:41
lcuk_2actually gen, the bandwidth isnt that much of a problem.  running games at a lower resolution than your desktop has NEVER been seen as a bad thing - its almost expected.  at lower res there is plenty of bandwidth00:41
Tama^2yeah, right GA. it will bring world peace as well ;)00:41
Navi Of course it will00:41
NaviEveryone knows Nokia is capable of manufacturing peace from their assembly lines00:42
lcuk_2400*480 is a super compromise and still better than iphone00:42
yllusyes. Airdrop N900s into the Gaza Strip and watch the love bloom00:42
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, well, we really don't know what kind of issues the setup they're using introduce to getting the PowerVR to run properly.00:42
GeneralAntillesPlus, I've never considered resolution reduction a viable performance compromise on MY computer. :P00:42
lcuk_2thats a nice 320*200 desktop you must like to use then ;)00:43
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GeneralAntillesEr . . . sure. :\00:43
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lcuk_2powervr is just another coprocessor like the dsp00:43
KotCzarnyit seems like Nokia will introduce a WiMAX-enabled version on April 1 at CTIA. So claims Boy Genius and his tipsters00:44
KotCzarnyapril 1st is a bad time to announce anything00:44
lcuk_2it works well on the iphone, on the other n series devices and in lots of other places.  why not here?00:44
GeneralAntillesWe've been over this before. :P00:44
Jsoetdoes anyone know, when you're using the scratchbox environment, are you able to connect to the internet using it? Or do you need to use an actual device?00:45
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, anyway, especially with LCDs, resolution reduction is pretty stupid.00:45
lcuk_2and i will probably keep going over it until it gets attention.  it really gets my goat that for no technical reason something which could make a dramatic difference to the user experience is left off00:45
KotCzarnyjsoet: as long hosting machine is connected, then yes00:45
lcuk_2GeneralAntilles, i bet you cant even SEE one pixel properly00:45
GeneralAntillesReducing quality settings is both more effective and less of a quality impact.00:45
JsoetLike when I try and connect using the conic library it just sends me a disconnected event saying that nothing was wrong and that it's just disconnected... is there something else I have to do other than just request a connection?00:46
KotCzarnylcuk: there's a difference seeing hires vid and pixeldoubled one00:46
pupniklcuk_2: you're right, the GL apps on the N810 are only displaying a few polygons - i.e. the whale is displayed but no sharks, and there is only one building showin on the rotating green rectangle at 2:0900:46
GeneralAntillesYeah, lcuk_2, that kind of the point of having a high DPI.00:46
fysaso where do I get NoBounds?00:47
KotCzarnyjsoet: hum, does it depend on some service running?00:47
Tama^2I honestly care little about 3D games or animations. I just want a smooth UI and no tearing00:47
GeneralAntillesRunning an LCD at non-native resolutions just plain looks like shit.00:47
GeneralAntillesWell, that you wont get with this hardware, Tama^2. :P00:48
pupniklooks fine with mplayer GeneralAntilles00:48
Tama^2so I can read without my eyes hurting00:48
lcuk_2GeneralAntilles, 400*480 isnt really none native, it just makes slightly fatter squarer pixels00:48
GeneralAntillesVideos are different, pupnik.00:48
pupnikTama^2: yes some solution for faster scrolling of pages would be nice00:48
pupnikGeneralAntilles: pixel doubled games look fine to me also :/00:49
GeneralAntillesMy point was re your belief that resolution reduction is a viable method of performance compromise. :P00:49
GeneralAntillesErm, any resolution that isn't divided by 2.00:49
lcuk_2for gaming it is00:49
Tama^2pup: I would be even ready to accept 400x480 (with hw doubling) as standard if it helped00:49
GeneralAntilles1 pixel for 4 is fine00:49
GeneralAntillesbut 1 pixel for 2.5 looks like crap.00:50
GeneralAntillesAs the pixel edges get messed up.00:50
pupnikYes, and who wants to read lo-res text - not me00:50
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Tama^3you plus-plussed me :P00:51
KotCzarnyno, it would be tama*tama*tama00:51
Tama^3I know I know00:52
lcuk_2then write the desktop to use full 800*480 YCbCr00:52
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KotCzarnylcuk: xgl ?00:52
lcuk_2xgl would be great with the pvr00:52
lcuk_2xv works now natively and has enough bandwidth to get a frame displayed, but there is a point if you feed it data too slowly it will tear - feed it even more and it drops frame smoothly00:53
KotCzarnygetting metacity with wobble and rest of eyecandies running would rock00:53
lcuk_2yes, the iphone interface works because the pvr does the blitting00:53
pupnikand smooth as glass scrolling of webpages would be nice00:53
lcuk_2glass scrolling is available now :)00:54
KotCzarnyhow about horizontal-lens zoom like?00:54
lcuk_2quickie, if i was just going to send a zip out with an exe a font and an example document where would you normally put it to test it?   i know it wont run if extracted into mmc2 because thats not executable fs.00:55
lcuk_2horiz lens?00:55
edistarlcuk_2: where is glass scrolling?00:56
KotCzarnylcuk, zoomed in the centre, zoomed out ad the top/bottom00:56
lcuk_2ive been copying all my exes to /usr/bin/liq/....   but where would you run them from?00:56
GeneralAntillesWindows user. :P00:57
KotCzarny /usr/local/s?bin is the place00:57
yllushey, neat. While I wasn't looking someone came out with "quiver". Now I'm going to have to use my 770 as a digital photo frame.00:57
lcuk_2edistar - its in that folder at present, i want to zip up a test app to send out00:57
GeneralAntilles /usr/local/bin personally.00:57
lcuk_2but its got the data along side it - this wont be installable, thats a whole other bridge to cross00:57
KotCzarnyuse a config file00:58
KotCzarnyand make dep to put correct line into it00:58
KotCzarnyat the install time00:58
KotCzarnythat way binary can read it and it can be changed by user later00:58
lcuk_2would people rather i spent another few days learning about config files or would you like to see and try a little test?00:58
edistarlcuk_2: test00:59
KotCzarnylcuk: they wouldn't have to learn anything00:59
KotCzarnyyou can prepare config file and put it into the package00:59
Naviit only takes like an hour00:59
KotCzarnyor just add echo line into postinstall00:59
Navithat is, if you're slow >_>00:59
lcuk_2whoa now, i cant install anything00:59
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NaviHow uh, what's glass scrolling :/01:00
lcuk_2i have ZERO knowledge of this alien filesystem at present and i dunno what to do to get it started, i have been looking at other matters01:00
infobotNavi meant: Now uh, what's glass scrolling :/01:00
NaviOoh, forgot about the bot01:00
lcuk_2full 27fps fullscreen scrolling :)01:00
KotCzarnylcuk: learn from exampless01:00
lcuk_2lots to learn01:00
KotCzarnyjust unpack some other deb01:00
Navi/usr/local/ is like /usr/, but made for unmanaged stuff (self-built stuff and such)01:01
Naviwell, it can be used for anything :P01:01
JsoetKotCzarny: I looked into it a bit and I guess libconic isn't implemented on scratchbox: thanks for your help though01:02
lcuk_2ive never done anything like this before - i have install shield to do everything :S01:02
KotCzarnyjsoet: oh, ok01:03
KotCzarnylcuk: i believe load-applet has some postinstall scripts01:05
KotCzarnyyou can steal them01:05
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lcuk_2i dont wanna install anything - its expecting data to be in same folder and i dont wanna pollute any standard folders01:06
KotCzarnylcuk: then just use /usr/local/etc01:06
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, learn about POSIX. :P01:06
* lcuk_2 is really nervous about putting stuff onto others computers01:06
KotCzarnylcuk: one note, /usr/local is for testing and everything that comes without packages01:07
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KotCzarnyif you prepare correct package it should use /usr01:07
KotCzarnyso meak your app install to /usr/local/{etc,bin,share}01:08
KotCzarnyfor example /usr/local/bin/lcuk101:08
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KotCzarnyand /usr/local/share/lcuk1/01:09
KotCzarnyand system wide config in /usr/local/etc/lcuk1.conf01:09
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lcuk_2but thats system wide for the current user?01:09
KotCzarnyfor all01:10
KotCzarnyfor current user it's ~/01:10
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lcuk_2so why is it usr/ ?01:10
KotCzarnydon't ask me.01:10
KotCzarny / is needed to boot01:10
KotCzarny /usr is mounted after boot01:10
KotCzarnyand contains no system critical stuff01:10
lcuk_2user space modules - anything outside the kernel01:11
* lcuk_2 remembers something01:11
KotCzarnybut usually /usr and / is on the same fs01:11
KotCzarnyand nothing is mounted anymore01:11
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lcuk_2so where deos the actual logged in user live?01:11
KotCzarnybut general rule still is valid01:11
KotCzarny ~01:11
KotCzarnyit's expanded to user's dir01:11
KotCzarnywhich is defined in /etc/password01:11
yllusIf I'm network connected on my tablet, is there a path I can use to access a Windows share?01:12
KotCzarnybut shell knows how to expand ~ to that variable01:12
lcuk_2/etc/lcuk/ you mean?01:12
lcuk_2actual password?01:12
KotCzarnydo: cat /etc/passwd01:12
KotCzarnyyou will see bunch of lines, field separator is  ':'01:12
KotCzarnyit's: login:pass:uid:guid:info:home_dir:default_shell01:13
KotCzarnyon modern systems pass is hidden and stored elsewhere though01:13
GeneralAntilles /home/user is the user folder on ITOS01:13
lcuk_2thanks gen :) that makes life simpler, i had just found it in the list but you hit the spot01:14
KotCzarnylcuk: but it's wrong to hardcode it01:14
lcuk_2that user list though, if i wanted to login as any (with ssh) and knew the password that would work wouldnt it01:15
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lcuk_2and the links would map themselves correctly - ie this ~ you are talking about01:15
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KotCzarny~ is expanded in shell01:15
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KotCzarnybut it uses /etc/passwd to get that path01:15
lcuk_2so if i am expecting my software to store profile data i could expect it to have a file "~/liq/options" or similar?01:16
KotCzarnyshell usually predefines $HOME variable too01:16
KotCzarnyif it's a simple config you can use ~/.liq.conf or ~/.liqrc01:17
KotCzarnyand you can get user's HOME from env01:17
lcuk_2ahhh yes, i am looking via winssh now :)01:17
KotCzarny(in c)01:17
lcuk_2thats where game scores etc are kept :)01:18
KotCzarnyand . at the beginning means dir is 'hidden'01:18
lcuk_2or file :)01:18
KotCzarnyor file01:18
GeneralAntilles~/.liqrc maybe01:19
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* lcuk_2 hopes all this magically sets itself up automagically soon, it hurts my head01:21
KotCzarnywrite a function to get HOME variable from startup environment01:21
KotCzarnyfor a start01:22
GeneralAntillesWindows user! :P01:22
lcuk_2but would a mac user know any better?  dont they just put a folder full of files somewhere and use that01:23
GeneralAntillesDepends on the Mac user.01:23
GeneralAntillesI would know better. :P01:23
KotCzarnylcuk: mac is *nixed nowadays01:23
GeneralAntillesApple lickableness plus BSD's win.01:23
KotCzarnyso they have ~/Desktop and stuff too01:23
KotCzarnyi guess01:23
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KotCzarnynice idea01:25
KotCzarnyespecially if those aps are open01:25
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pupnikIs it possible for non-umpc hardware to do mesh networking?01:30
pupnikwouldn't it require more than one wlan adapter?01:31
lcuk_2mine connects to adhoc wifi :)01:31
KotCzarnystore&send isn't enough?01:31
pupnikyou can't have a mesh when each node can only connect to one.. ahh01:31
KotCzarnybut in adhoc it's one-to-many01:31
KotCzarnyi think01:32
lcuk_2you could, but you would be faster just giving the guy a floppy disk01:32
KotCzarnyfull screen virtual x + chroot, and using maemo only for booting :>01:34
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mgedminFAT is so easy to corrupt, and not quite easy to notice when it's corrupted03:14
KotCzarnyfat sucks03:14
mgedminI was trying to restore a backup and reinstall the apps03:14
mgedminand App Installer gave me completely opaque errors "unable to install openssh"03:14
mgedminI thought the maemo repository was hosed again03:14
mgedminbut decided to check the log -- "read only file system"03:14
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mgedminIT OS needs a nice GUI for dosfsck03:15
GeneralAntillesThat's what the Log option in the menu is for.03:15
KotCzarnymgedmin: afaik dosfsck is run everytime card is mounted03:15
KotCzarnyi mean before mount03:15
mgedminwhee, "Operation failed: [OK]"03:16
KotCzarnycheck mmc-mount script to see if it has dosfsck or soemthing03:16
mgedminwhere's the damn "SHOW ME THE LOG" button?03:16
pupnik_GeneralAntilles: seen the Kohjinsha SA5 ?03:16
GeneralAntillesIn the Application Manager menu.03:16
mgedminlast line in the log is "Installing libzlibrary 0.8.16-1"03:16
GeneralAntillesNo, pupnik_, what is it?03:16
mgedminno indication about what failed or why03:16
mgedminI'm starting to see why people hate the app installer03:17
KotCzarnyguis are for wimps anyway03:17
mgedminhey, KotCzarny, how do you reinstall all the apps listed in the backup from the command line?03:17
KotCzarnyapt-get install `some sed magic here` ?03:18
mgedmin'unzip && parse xml && sudo apt-get install foo bar baz' is a bit too manual03:18
mgedminfwiw dosfsck is not present in the OS image03:19
KotCzarnyi believe i have seen it03:19
KotCzarnylet me check03:19
mgedminmaybe it's not in my path03:19
KotCzarnymay be named differently03:19
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, it shows ro errors here. :\03:20
KotCzarnyNokia-N800-51-3:~# which dosfsck03:20
KotCzarny /sbin/dosfsck03:20
KotCzarnymine has it03:20
mgedminright, I'm not root yet03:20
mgedminso, on a n810, is there a way to press 'tab' that doesn't involve the touchscreen?03:23
mgedmin(or a bluetooth/usb keyboard)03:23
* KotCzarny has n80003:23
mgedminyay, operation failed again03:23
mgedminlooks like I'm not done ranting :-)03:23
KotCzarnyjust format that mmc with ext3?03:24
nrktkmgedmin  you can remap the keyboard, i was searching for it, because of the lack of the | in the keyboard of my n81003:24
mgedminyes, I was just wondering03:24
mgedminfn-space or fn-chr might be a hidden shortcut03:24
mgedminer, chr-space03:25
mgedmin*duh* ctrl-i *is* tab03:25
mgedminunix rules03:25
Navimgedmin, ohdamn, you're right03:26
mgedmina n810 looks much better in real life compared to all the pics on the web03:26
nrktkmgedmin  yes, at the shell, but not in the tex editors and similar.03:27
nrktkand i agree, looks better in hand03:27
mgedminbut I keep stabbing the webcam with my thumb out of habit, thinking it's the d-pad03:27
nrktkmore solid03:27
KotCzarnymgedmin: write vid script03:27
KotCzarnyto make it optical trackball03:28
mgedminheh, gesture controls03:28
mgedminyikes, the new screen is already full of my fingerprints03:28
mgedminhm, backup/restore doesn't restore statusbar icon order03:28
mgedminnor app menu organisation03:28
pupnik_mmm there are now 5.61" 1024x600 tft displays03:29
* mgedmin spent 5 minutes in the car trying to remember the factory pin of his bluetooth GPS before he noticed the "use internal gps" option and remembered that n810 had one03:29
Naviyou might as well try to remember that pin03:30
mgedminit's 200403:30
mgedminerr, 200303:30
mgedminI remembered it looked like a year number03:30
GeneralAntillesI don't think Nokia has any chance of competing in that price range with OMAP.03:30
mgedminbut I tried 2001 and 2004 only03:30
mgedminI've got it written down, but not readily accessible when I'm in my car03:31
GeneralAntillesActually, well, OMAP3440 at 1.0-1.2GHz might work.03:31
mgedminwhy oh why won't OS2008 let me disable the darn Presence applet?03:32
mgedminI don't need it cluttering my status bar03:32
* KotCzarny never uset presence applet03:32
pupnik_i think that's a high-power version.  the 3430 (3530) in pandora seems to run around 600mhz03:32
GeneralAntillesJust delete the .desktop if it bothers you so much.03:32
GeneralAntillesThey've got a UMPC-targeted version.03:33
GeneralAntillesOf the 3440, I believe.03:33
pupnik_ahh ok03:33
GeneralAntillesWhich is in the ~1GHz range.03:33
NaviThere's the 35xx line of OMAP303:33
Navinot listed on their site, though03:33
GeneralAntillesI wonder what the differences are.03:33
pupnik_35xx is just 34xx for smaller production runs03:33
GeneralAntillesMakes sense.03:34
GeneralAntillesWeird that they have a different designation, though.03:34
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mgedminyay, I'm root now03:39
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mgedmincool, rsync is available on maemo these days03:42
NaviI tried to use it03:42
mgedminwhy haven't I noticed that earlier?03:42
Naviit segfaulted >_>03:42
mgedminwait, "tried"?03:42
GeneralAntillesIt's been around for forever.03:42
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mgedminbet it's unaligned memory access or something like that03:43
Proteousthe quick brown rfox jumped over/the lazy dog03:44
mgedminokay now, can someone explain to me, in simple one-syllable words preferably, why in the world does Application Installer refresh the whole app list if I click on a package to see its description and the choose "Cancel"?03:45
Proteousit's true I saw it/ on tv03:45
GeneralAntillesBecause that's how it was programmed?03:45
mgedmintyping is hard03:45
lcuk_2and why does the same program only display the description upto a certain point forcing you to open the properties window to read the description03:45
lcuk_2(on the list)03:46
KotCzarnylet's call app-manager beta quality03:46
Proteousyou've never seen an rfox?03:46
KotCzarnyand have some tea03:46
lcuk_2i can feel the warmth coming off it ;)03:46
lcuk_2well, thats options sorted now :)03:46
GeneralAntillesApplication Manager is open.03:47
KotCzarnyprotoeous: nope, doesn't saw it too03:47
GeneralAntillesFix it if you don't like it. :P03:47
KotCzarnyno thankx, i'll just use apt-get03:47
lcuk_2no damnit, ill put a change request to the person who knows and understands it03:47
KotCzarny  |> Number 6 - High Wycombe03:47
GeneralAntillesOK, good, go do it!03:47
GeneralAntillesI'll even vote for it!03:47
GeneralAntillesHeck, I'll mark it New. :D03:48
lcuk_2i am doing right now :P03:48
mgedminGeneralAntilles: wait, what?03:48
mgedminit's open source?03:48
mgedmindespite being written by Nokia?03:48
Proteousapt-get upgrade application-manager03:48
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, there's a lot of Nokia stuff that's open.03:48
KotCzarnyah, garage quality03:49
KotCzarnyit's not even beta then03:49
mgedminyes, framework stuff03:49
mgedminrarely GUI applications03:49
GeneralAntilleshildon-desktop is03:49
GeneralAntillesMicroB is03:49
mgedminapt-get source osso-application-installer03:49
mgedminE: Unable to find a source package for osso-application-installer03:49
mgedminthanks for the garage link03:50
GeneralAntillesI don't think it's osso03:50
mgedminbecause deb-src chinook free doesn't find it03:50
GeneralAntillesDo you have the right source repo, anyway?03:50
ProteousI hate that the on screen keyboard makes a click feedback sound even when you press the wrong place and it doesn't write a letter03:50
mgedminmaybe not, I tried "maemo application installer svn" in google and got to
mgedminwhich does have osso-application-installer in it03:50
mgedminah, chinook has hildon-application-manager03:51
mgedminand apt-get source works for it03:51
GeneralAntillesosso is on the way out.03:51
mgedminre MicroB: IIRC only the backend is open, but the browser UI itself is closed03:51
GeneralAntillesbrowser-ui is open03:51
GeneralAntillestablet-browser is not :\03:51
mgedminwhat's the difference?03:51
lcuk_2ok, who nicked my lighter?03:51
GeneralAntillesbrowser-ui is OS2007.03:52
mgedminlcuk_2: google03:52
lcuk_2good idea03:52
mgedminah ouch bad trend there03:52
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, smoking is a dirty and expensive habit. :P03:52
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mgedminwhy assume the worst?03:52
mgedminmaybe he just wants to set the house on fire03:52
GeneralAntillesI'm helping you out by stealing your possession then being preachy at you. :P03:52
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I'm helping you out by stealing your possessions then being preachy at you. :P03:52
lcuk_2expensive? i smoke like a chimney and spend about £3 a week - less than we spend on newspapers03:52
lcuk_2rolling tobacco is cheap03:53
lcuk_2but i agree its dirty03:53
* mgedmin suddenly remembers it's 4 AM and almost falls asleep03:54
mgedminhildon-app-manager patches can wait03:54
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mgedmingood night, everyone03:54
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Proteous '03:55
Proteous ~03:56
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lcuk_2any idea where i will find ttf fonts on the maemo or are they scattered?04:41
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KotCzarnyin usual folder04:42
KotCzarny /usr/share/fonts04:42
GeneralAntilles /usr/share/fonts?04:42
lcuk_2holy bum fluff robin, you're right04:43
KotCzarnylast time i checked used it04:43
GeneralAntillesSomebody packaged mlocate04:43
GeneralAntillesYou ought to install it. :P04:43
KotCzarnyand since os2008 is quite a modern debian fork04:43
KotCzarnyit will use same dir structure04:43
lcuk_2thx kot04:43
KotCzarnylcuk: np04:43
KotCzarnyas a side note you can put your ttfs there04:43
GeneralAntilles /usr/share tends to be where a lot of "resource" stuff ends up.04:43
Navimlocate is heavy04:44
Navijust use find :/04:44
KotCzarnyand make theme using them04:44
GeneralAntillesMeh, busybox find is mean.04:44
Navionly 'cuz u sux04:44
GeneralAntillesQuite probably04:44
GeneralAntillesBut if I sux, lcuk_2 will sux more. :P04:44
* lcuk_2 wants to press f404:44
lcuk_2f3 even04:44
Navifind /usr -name "ttf"04:44
KotCzarnylcuk: install mc04:45
GeneralAntilleslocate .tff :P04:45
lcuk_2i did type something like that.  look04:45
lcuk_2<lcuk_2> any idea where i will find ttf fonts on the maemo or are they scattered?04:45
KotCzarnyit has find file option04:45
NaviGeneralAntilles, you have to run updatedb first04:45
Naviassuming a fresh install04:45
lcuk_2this natural language processor that IRC uses is amazing :)04:45
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lcuk_2i think all programs should have an irc help bar ;)04:46
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GeneralAntillesI am not your slave. ;_;04:46
KotCzarnyyou still have to parse answers by yourself04:46
*** Navi changes topic to "GA sux"04:46
lcuk_2and i learn more by asking and discussing :)04:46
Navioh shit!04:46
NaviWhat the hell?04:46
GeneralAntillesToo bad there's no ops for this channel04:46
KotCzarnylcuk: today you learn, tomorrow you will teach04:47
GeneralAntillesOr they'd kick your ass.04:47
lcuk_2its ok, ive gotta figure out how to upload something yet04:47
GeneralAntillesUpload where?04:47
KotCzarnylcuk: make your own thttpd based local repo04:47
*** Navi changes topic to "development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets | | | |"04:47
KotCzarnyand just add it ;)04:47
NaviWhy do unopped people have permissions to change the topic in here?04:48
lcuk_2we've been over this - that involves me doing all sorts of shit - ive just spent god knows how long handling option parsing04:48
GeneralAntillesBecause there is no authority to this channel.04:48
GeneralAntillesIt was created and the founder disappeared. :P04:48
KotCzarnylcuk: option parsing is easy04:48
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lcuk_2yes, but i didnt want to use single character codes for things04:49
KotCzarnythere's even lib for it04:49
lcuk_2yes i know i read up04:49
KotCzarnyyou won't have to04:49
lcuk_2getopt and getopt_long :|04:49
NaviDoesn't matter if the founder disappeared04:50
lcuk_2getopt appeared to want me to force options in a specific order04:50
Navijust go to #freenode and complain >_>04:50
KotCzarnylcuk: wanna see my options parser?04:50
lcuk_2it was easier for me to write a couple of functions for getopt_str and getopt_num04:50
GeneralAntillesI'll go bitch at kloeri.04:50
lcuk_2nahhh i done it, it works nicely and accepts defaults for when they arent passed (or are invalid)04:50
KotCzarnyit's a one liner anyway04:51
KotCzarnywell, two liner if you want to have --opt and --opt n04:52
lcuk_2yer, it is now :) for any program i write    app_getopt_int("size",    20)04:52
KotCzarny  if(!strcmp("-l",argv[i])) { looping=60;04:52
KotCzarny   if(i+1<argc && atoi(argv[i+1])>0) { i++; looping=atoi(argv[i]); }04:52
lcuk_2but what if its NAN? or if its invalid looping param?04:53
KotCzarnythen it won't work anyway?04:53
KotCzarnyif user is stupid it's HIS (or HER) fault04:53
lcuk_2but sanitizing your inputs in important04:53
KotCzarnyatoi does that04:53
lcuk_2no it doesnt, it returns 0 if it cant parse it, or min/max if its out of bounds04:54
KotCzarnyand it's enough04:54
lcuk_2depends what looping is used for i suppose04:54
KotCzarnyif one enters word where number is expected, it's his fault04:54
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KotCzarnyif looping>0 then it doesn't exit after one loop04:55
KotCzarnyotherwise it's usleep04:55
lcuk_2also, what happens if they dont supply a param, but instead supply a further -param?  you will miss it by blindly accepting its expected as an arg04:55
KotCzarnythat what second if is for04:56
lcuk_2arghhh, missed it :)04:56
lcuk_2well, the atoi04:56
KotCzarnyso first if we get -l, when we set default delay04:56
lcuk_2i dont actually care what order things come in04:57
KotCzarnyme too04:57
KotCzarnythere's for around it04:57
KotCzarnyfrom 1 to argc04:57
KotCzarnyactually i like it my way because some options are exclusive/inclusive04:59
KotCzarnyand one would have to check accordingly anyway04:59
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KotCzarnythat's just plain stupid.05:10
Tama^2it's beyond stupid05:12
NaviWhat is?05:13
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KotCzarnyyeah. it's stupid and expensive.05:13
Tama^2open the link05:13
KotCzarnyand shiny.05:13
NaviOh, I have that guy on /ignore05:15
lcuk_2actually i think is a better idea05:16
NaviPower rings!05:16
KotCzarnylcuk: boobs in hand are better than silicon on paper05:17
lcuk_2good point, and they have been dualcore for a while as well05:17
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* GeneralAntilles high-fives Navi.05:18
lcuk_2am i safe using "/usr/share/fonts/nokia/nosnb.ttf" as a default font for 99.9999% of nokia 8x0s? at least for now05:22
GeneralAntillesI'm assuming that's one of the ones that's bundled?05:22
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'm a fan of the Sans font they bundle.05:22
KotCzarnydefine 'safe'05:22
lcuk_2yer - saves me trying to mess around finding a free one to include05:22
KotCzarnyyou should use osso provided aliases05:22
lcuk_2'safe' = included in most systems05:22
KotCzarnyif you want to play safe05:23
lcuk_2i couldnt find sans05:23
lcuk_2i dont think its a ttf05:23
KotCzarnyi mean gtk provided05:23
lcuk_2its only as a proof of concept05:23
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KotCzarnythere should be an alias for sans, sansserif and mono05:24
KotCzarnyor something05:24
KotCzarnythat's why they are not in the fs05:24
lcuk_2well since up until half hour ago i was using arial.ttf i think what i have now is better05:24
KotCzarnyand most of the os2008 images are the same05:25
KotCzarnyso yes, you're reasonably safe05:25
GeneralAntillesWe'd've lynched you for that.05:25
lcuk_2no you wouldnt, i could never include it and post it anywhere - its bad form05:26
GeneralAntillesArial is an abomination.05:26
KotCzarnyyou can make it download from sf.net05:26
KotCzarny(in postinstall script)05:27
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lcuk_2time to sleep :) nite all05:32
KotCzarnygo go05:32
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GeneralAntillesSo, anybody thought up an easy answer to help newbies format corrupt internal memory on the N810 when they can't disable swap?06:25
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shackanwhat the hell do i have to do to share my music from rhythmbox to canola via  daap?06:37
GeneralAntillesWait for the UPnP plugin?06:38
shackandoesn't canola2 do daap?06:38
GeneralAntillesThe plugin is still in testing.06:39
shackanand i want to test it :)06:40
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GeneralAntillesGo petition the INdT guys. :P06:40
shackanno upnp support either?06:41
GeneralAntillesNot until the plugin is out.06:41
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shackanjeesus they spent so much time to make  it shiny.. with dynamic scrolling and shit06:42
shackanso, any other daap or upnp client available?06:43
GeneralAntillesshackan, just be glad you have something to play with.06:43
GeneralAntillesIf you want to HELP, evidently this is the place to go:
shackan(the default player speas upnp but forces to listen one album  at a time)06:44
GeneralAntillesMedia streamer might work.06:45
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shackanhahaha mediastreamer is not installable06:50
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KotCzarnythis stowaway kb works beautifully withj my n-gage07:03
KotCzarnyon n800 bt powersaving probably fscks up key delay07:04
KotCzarnyor is it?07:04
KotCzarnyright now kb testing07:04
KotCzarnyand response is brilliant07:04
KotCzarnybut on n800 it's laggy07:04
Tama^2happens to every bt kb07:05
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Tama^2at some stage I read somewhere that the bluez bt stack was to blame07:05
KotCzarnyis there any remedy?07:05
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Tama^2not that I know of07:06
KotCzarnydid you know that blue-fn + left/right space maps to left/right soft-keys?07:07
KotCzarny(on symbian)07:08
Tama^2ever had a symbian device07:08
KotCzarnyno nokia phones?07:08
Tama^2last nokia I had was a no camera, bw screen 50$ thing07:09
KotCzarnymy n-gage is 50$ thing too07:09
KotCzarnyno camera too07:10
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KotCzarnybut while running a game it sucks.07:28
KotCzarnyi wonder why07:28
KotCzarnymaybe game renices itself above everything else07:29
ItalodanceKotCzarny u have n-gage  cool!07:29
Italodancei wanted to buya n81 or n95 8gb  but finally i prefer n8007:29
Italodancei like all n0gage games07:29
Italodanceand still playing with my n667007:30
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Italodancemorning guys (here)07:31
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gnuSnobTax experts: can I deduct my internet costs, since that's the cost of job searching?07:37
gnuSnobAnd suppose I'm job searching on a regular basis.. can I deduct my internet costs for the year?07:37
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gnuSnobI just discovered how we can deduct the cost of a NIT on our taxes08:35
gnuSnobInstall garnet VM, along w/ TCassist (, and use the NIT at work to keep track of time to charge08:35
KotCzarnyisn't tcassist for palmos?08:39
gnuSnobyes, that's why i said garnetvm08:40
KotCzarnyahm, ok08:40
KotCzarnyi thought it's some javavm08:40
gnuSnobgarnet is basically the alias for palmos08:41
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NavignuSnob, lol08:49
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gnuSnobYou should hear about my job searching write off I have planned for next year08:51
gnuSnobI found out job hunting is tax deductible08:51
gnuSnobwhich includes  "Travel expenses, including out-of-town job-hunting trips."08:51
KotCzarnyhave you actually used it?08:52
gnuSnobSo the plan is to search for my next Ada job in the bahama's08:52
gnuSnobwhat, tcassist?  Yeah, I use that on my palm tx08:52
gnuSnobI have not tried tcassist on the NIT yet08:52
KotCzarnyno, tax deductions08:52
gnuSnobyeah, I itemize my deductions08:53
gnuSnobI've not itemized job searching expenses before though08:53
KotCzarnyhow much tiy managed to deduct?08:53
gnuSnobI have no idea off the top of my head.. but certainly more than the standard deduction08:53
gnuSnobThe tax software interviews, and decides whether it makes sense to itemize08:54
gnuSnobActually, I've deducted a heck of a lot08:54
gnuSnob~$10k when I was taking pilot lessons08:54
KotCzarnypilot lessons?08:55
gnuSnobfor flying single engine planes08:55
KotCzarnybuy a plane and deduct it as a 'travel expense'08:56
gnuSnobAll that flight instruction is deductible, if it helps your ability to do your job08:56
gnuSnobno, not that.. I haven't tried that yet.. I still have to figure out how to pull that off08:56
* pupnik peers into the crystal ball08:56
pupnik"i see... an audit!"08:56
gnuSnobI'll need to move 51 miles away from work, and commute to work in the plane08:57
gnuSnobThen I can deduct it08:57
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gnuSnobHopefully I don't have to stop for coffee on the way08:57
KotCzarnycommuting sucks.08:57
gnuSnobNot sure yet how to deduct SallyD.  It would be nice to be able to work that angle08:59
KotCzarnyofftopic, animated gif viewer for linux?09:00
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KotCzarnytoo big09:01
gnuSnobwell, it's open source, so you just have to strip out what you don't need09:02
KotCzarnythough i was writing media server app in php09:02
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KotCzarnyit would be faster to hack in gif animation to existing image viewer than to strip firefox09:03
gnuSnobYeah.. i was just being difficult09:03
gnuSnobimagemagick might work09:04
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gnuSnobthat comes standard w/ most distros09:04
KotCzarnydoes it vome with viewer?09:05
gnuSnobjust type "display <image file>"09:05
KotCzarnylet's see how it handles animated gifs09:05
gnuSnobyeah, it's not that great.. it's terrible for porno09:06
KotCzarnyi wonder..09:07
KotCzarnylet's try mplayer09:07
KotCzarnynow, let's see if it has autorepeat09:07
gnuSnobtry gqview09:08
gnuSnobthat comes with RH09:08
KotCzarnyno love for a-gifs09:09
KotCzarny(in gqview)09:09
KotCzarnymplayer -loop 009:12
KotCzarnythough it resets itself between cycles09:12
Navipupnik, hey, do you know how to utilize the pixel doubler in sdl?09:12
pupnikin specific cases, yes09:13
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pupnikin others, i have not been successful09:13
KotCzarnyisn't it just a simple link and one sdl command?09:14
pupnikthe history of the problems are documented in the maemo-developers mailing list09:14
KotCzarnyi will believe you then09:14
KotCzarnyi have tried it just once09:14
pupniki haven't looked into it in os200809:15
KotCzarnyand it worked09:15
KotCzarnyso for me it's 100% success rate09:15
pupnikbasically, it broke when the app updated many small rectangles on screen, instead of one big one09:15
Naviyeah, I just saw that on the wiki09:16
NaviI actually should of looked at the wiki first09:16
pupnikthat wiki page hasn't had many contributions from qualified programmers09:19
KotCzarnypupnik: have you tried using mplayer as a picture viewer?09:19
Naviheh, I'll check the mailing list after I wake up09:19
pupnikKotCzarny: no  quiver is my viewer of choice09:20
NaviI'm pretty tired at the moment09:20
pupnikdoes it work?09:20
KotCzarnyi don't know09:20
KotCzarnyi'm looking for something for animated gifs09:20
KotCzarnyand mplayer looks very promising09:20
KotCzarnyif only i will be able to convince it to show only one frame for some time i could use it for other formats too09:21
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* pupnik gives kupesoft a kupo nut09:22
pupnikMog, the most famous moogle of all, only had one appearance in Final Fantasy VII - In the mini-game "Mog House", in the arcade. All you had to do was feed him kupo nuts until it said "That's enough". Then Mog could fly and win the affections of the girl-moogle of his dreams.09:24
KotCzarnyand you get 30qp for it09:25
kupesoftThat's a bot, right?09:25
KotCzarnykupesoft: wrong. you should answer: kupo!09:25
pupnikright! :)09:26
KotCzarnyhmm. mplayer -loop 0 -fixed-vo mf://your.jpg09:26
KotCzarnynow how can i make pause on the first frame09:26
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KotCzarnymplayer -idle -fixed-vo mf://your.jpg09:27
KotCzarnyadd -zoom -fs and you get your picture viewer09:28
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KotCzarnyand mplayer's swscaler is decent09:29
pupnikthere's no decent comic book viewer (packed image list) yet afaik09:30
NaviComix is decent09:30
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Navianyways, 'night09:33
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KaaLihave some of u purchased wayfinder..09:35
pupnikCheers Navi09:36
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pupnikcomix unpacks the whole archive before displaying a picture - not the right way to do it09:36
KotCzarnyvfs to the rescue?09:37
KotCzarnythis way you can use quiver or even included image viewer i think09:38
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KotCzarnyWork on libungif has been halted due to the expiration of the patent on LZW. giflib continues to have bugfixes and patches merged. As part of this work, the sourceforge project has been renamed from libungif to giflib.09:45
KotCzarnyah, ok09:45
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KotCzarnythis one is interesting09:55
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KotCzarnygimageview is my new images/videos (pre)viewer of choice11:04
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eichiare there many apps on which arent on ?11:14
eichiit seems that i miss a lot of apps ^^11:15
eichi thats the first time i read about this11:15
eichiim searching somehing like an application launcher on the desktop11:17
eichifor os200811:17
eichiand i want to remove the community button on the left sidebar, with email, voip etc11:17
KotCzarnyfor that you will have to install something11:18
KotCzarnyi forgot the name11:18
KotCzarnysomething like this11:18
eichii found powerlaunch, idea and jack11:19
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eichiand personal-menu11:20
KotCzarnyyeah, that's the name11:21
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aquatixbtw, why can't i freely move apps to another menu?11:21
eichiaquarius-, go to control panel11:22
aquatixyeah, Panels, Applications, Organize11:23
aquatixbut i can't move all apps to another menu, only some11:23
aquatixand generally only from/to extras and the my choice one11:23
KotCzarnythat's a bug11:23
KotCzarnyyou can11:23
KotCzarnyi usually change to another menu and back11:23
KotCzarnyand then try again11:24
KotCzarnyjust keep trying11:24
aquatixmyeah, i gave up eventually :)11:24
aquatixpartly because there's no room for a Multimedia menu in the main menu without having to scroll anyway11:24
KotCzarnychoose favourite 5 and put other below11:25
eichiaquatix, no. i created many menus and changed the location of many icons - really ^^11:25
eichii have 8 menus11:26
eichithe last one is the "notNeeded" ;D11:26
eichii have online, games, system, office, multimedia, OnTheRoad, Extras, NotNeeded11:27
aquatixmyeah, but when you exceed the 6, it starts to scroll, so only 5 are visible11:27
KotCzarnyyou can make notneeded a subset of the 6th menu11:27
eichiyes, thats right11:27
aquatixand i don't like that in the main menu11:27
aquatixah, submenu11:28
KotCzarnyie. get 5 apps on the top that you will actually use11:28
eichii want to remove this damn community menu11:28
eichii dont need any of this apps11:28
aquatixmeh, no submenu possible, only order11:28
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eichisomeone used powerlaunch? its sounds dangeraous11:30
eichi"replaces the systemui11:30
KotCzarnyit's nice11:30
eichii dont want to damage my sists11:30
KotCzarnyyou won't11:30
eichii know this from themes, which destroyed my maemo. i never touch new themes. damnit11:31
aquatixgtk themes destroyed maemo?11:31
aquatixwtf :)11:31
KotCzarnythere's always backup :)11:31
aquatixwhich doesn't completely work?11:32
eichiit was a startrack themes for os200711:32
AStormdoes canola2 support Vorbis?11:32
eichiAStorm, no11:32
aquatixAStorm: iirc, yes11:32
aquatixeichi is more right ;)11:32
eichiAStorm, i useUKMP and kagu for this11:32
AStormany more all-purpose player?11:32
aquatixthe built-in one?11:33
aquatixwith ogg-support11:33
AStormaquatix: doesn't suuport video ok11:33
eichiAStorm, kagu works stable and is nice, UKMP is the nicest, but somethimes is slows down and the sound is strange, you have to restart maemo, that sucks11:33
eichiuse kagu11:33
KotCzarnyastorm: gimageview11:33
eichii have ogg music only to11:34
KotCzarnyi have found this gem today11:34
KotCzarnyand i'll probably try to port it soon11:34
eichii installed powerlaunch, and now?!11:34
AStormKotCzarny: that supports audio playback?11:35
KotCzarnyastorm: can use mplayer as a slave11:35
KotCzarnyand has 'add by extension'11:35
KotCzarnyso probably yes11:35
KotCzarnybut haven't tried yet11:35
eichiwhat is softpoweroff?11:35
AStormive installed gstreamer-0.10-ivorbis plugin11:35
AStormstill no ogg support in the default player11:36
AStormmaybe i have to restart something?11:36
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GeneralAntilleseichi, easier to get into and out of lock-mode.11:36
AStormbutton is easy enough11:37
eichiGeneralAntilles, ah okay, i got it. i thought, this was another thing ;)11:37
eichiwas is "mce" which is replaced now?11:38
eichiand was is "softpoweroff"11:38
GeneralAntilles<GeneralAntilles> eichi, easier to get into and out of lock-mode.11:39
AStormmaybe after i install that, canola will detect vorbis11:39
AStormit uses gst after all11:39
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AStormhave to remove ivorbis for it11:42
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AStorm"unable to install"11:48
AStormi'll retry after a reboot11:48
KotCzarnytime to bed. night people11:48
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qwerty12KotCzarny: good night11:49
KotCzarnyqwerty12: have you tried kcbatt 0.2.4?11:49
qwerty12I have it installed :P. I havn't really tried it yet though. My N800 is charging atm11:50
KotCzarnycharging mode is updated too11:50
qwerty12Don't get me wrong though, I really appricate your work :)11:50
qwerty12Ok :)11:50
KotCzarnyso it gets quite meaningfull output :)11:51
qwerty12I like it, I just tried it :)11:51
qwerty12Thanks :)11:51
KotCzarnynp. it has some testing params added11:51
KotCzarnyso you can try tweaking it :)11:52
KotCzarnywithout recompiling11:52
qwerty12Ok :)11:52
qwerty12I have it added to personal menu11:52
KotCzarnyok, sleep time11:53
qwerty12lol, good night :D11:53
aquatixKotCzarny: g'night :)11:54
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qwerty12Just curious, does N800 have TI BRF6150 bluetooth chip?11:57
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eichi"Usually I am not a grammar/spelling nazi" grammar nazi, is this common?12:15
eichisounds evil12:15
qwerty12grammar nazi is quite common12:15
qwerty12no idea why it's that though12:15
sxpertdistribution of godwins too12:16
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christefanohas anyone tried using bookmarklets in the microb browser?12:44
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megabyte405christefano: no but I see no reason why they shouldn't work12:56
christefanoI'm having trouble getting supergenpass to work12:57
christefanoit's a bookmarklet that generates passwords based on a hash of a master password and the TLD of a site one tries to log in to12:57
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christefanois there a way to trigger a bookmarklet without opening the Bookmarks window?13:00
AStormok, so which media player that supports all media do you recommend?13:00
AStormah, and a tagging program13:01
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qwerty12For pc or internet tablet?13:04
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AStormfor chinook13:06
qwerty12ok, there are only really 1. mplayer is the best (the only, except counting a odd port of vlc) and audio tag tool13:06
AStormyeah, but mplayer has crummy interface13:07
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AStormsome frontend supporting media library?13:07
qwerty12canola uses mplayer to play videos13:07
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AStormbut not for audio13:07
AStormthus doesn't support ogg13:08
AStormcan't list it13:08
qwerty12Oh right. Hmm13:08
AStormalthough default media player sees them13:08
qwerty12You can use ogg support package. There are now 2.13:08
AStormmaking canola support it would be best13:08
qwerty12They work with built in media player13:08
AStormI have that13:08
AStormbut built-in is junk13:09
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qwerty12canola actually uses the built in player to play audio13:09
AStormand i still need a tagging tool13:09
qwerty12I guess it is a matter of adding ogg display support13:09
AStormit uses gstreamer directly13:09
qwerty12oh, my bad - but I thought ogg support adds ogg gstreamer plugins?13:09
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qwerty12 - this is the only one13:10
qwerty12works for ogg & mp313:10
AStormmhm, good13:12
solmumahaqwerty12: have you tested the ntfs module in kernel? is it really read/write nowadays?13:12
megabyte405I use OGG with Canola13:12
AStormmegabyte405: what do i have to install?13:13
megabyte405solmumaha: you're wanting NTFS-3g - google it, it is read/write13:13
qwerty12solmumaha: I haven't sorry, I'm more curious13:13
AStormadded some ogg-support package13:13
megabyte405AStorm: not sure, I think ogg-support package13:13
qwerty12solmumaha ported it :D13:13
AStormhave that13:13
megabyte405and it doesn't work?13:13
megabyte405then you have the wrong ogg support package13:13
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AStormlet me tell you which one13:15
qwerty12solmumaha: "There is partial, but         │13:15
qwerty12  │ safe, write support available. " Hmm, I think ntfs-3g is better. Sorry13:15
AStormThomas Kulve's repo13:15
megabyte405AStorm: sorry, but that won't help.  I got OGG stuff working really easily a long time ago, and so I have no idea how I did it13:16
AStormand that doesn't work for canola213:16
megabyte405Pretty sure I just picked Ogg Support from either Maemo Garage or Maemo Downloads13:16
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AStormcheck from which repo13:16
megabyte405I tend not to futz with my repos13:16
AStormprobably that one13:16
|zeus|i have strange problem with new n81013:16
|zeus|package manager wants release.gpg files13:17
AStormuse less pipe chars in nick13:17
|zeus|but it can't fetch it from pre-installed repos13:17
AStormeasier to type :P13:17
megabyte405        500 bora/maemo Packages13:17
AStormzeus: reflash with newer OS200813:17
AStormmegabyte405: I have them for chinook13:18
|zeus|AStorm: already reflashed13:18
|zeus|same problem13:18
megabyte405AStorm: like I said, no idea, can't help then.  Was jsut offering my experience13:18
AStormworked here... might be your onnection or proxy13:18
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AStormzeus, same here13:19
|zeus|i can't find release.gpg files in repos manual using firefox too13:19
AStormmegabyte405: thanks anyway13:19
|zeus|AStorm: which repos are you using?13:20
christefanookay, so I take it nobody has been using bookmarklets with microb?13:20
AStormzeus, worked with default ones13:21
AStormchris___: well, maybe some shortcut?13:21
AStormchristefano: ^13:22
|zeus|AStorm: and it doesn't want Release.gpg?13:22
christefanoAStorm: in particular I'm looking for a way to use http://supergenpass.com13:23
AStormzeus, no errors13:23
pupnikzeus, go vegetarian!13:24
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* pupnik stares blankly at unfinished projects13:29
AStormhmm, mogg doesn't want to install13:30
AStormmissing pkgs13:30
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qwerty12You need all the debs from the garage page13:30
qwerty12May just be easier to use dpkg on them13:31
AStormwhich page?13:31
pupnikWhat's a good linux utility to generate fun characters like ->  ³13:31
qwerty12check the mogg IT OS 2008 section13:32
pH5I press AltGr+3 for that13:32
sp3000aww, no s-c-u... input on the tablet13:33
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sp3000granted that would be a bit cokebottlish13:33
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AStormyou can change the layout13:34
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AStormfunny that non-working mogg is in extras13:35
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AStormmispelled repo lol13:39
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ItalodanceOS 2008 is very stylish than os200713:40
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qwerty12I like the OS2007 default theme more though13:41
qwerty12Actually, I have the OS2007 rootfs mounted on Ubuntu, may as well look around13:41
Italodanceoh lol13:42
AStormthe OS2007 theme is available for 200813:42
Italodanceit is another opinion13:43
AStormcalledc glasser afaicr13:43
qwerty12AStorm: Ok, thanks, I'll look around :)13:43
AStormin the defaukt install too13:44
AStormdefault even13:44
AStormneed some ecc on typed text13:45
qwerty12Oh my bad. sorry, I meant this theme:
GeneralAntillesYou LIKE Adria?!13:47
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qwerty12Hell yea, it's peng-a-leng :p13:48
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qwerty12I just saw it now on my screen13:48
GeneralAntillesEvery single bundled theme in every ITOS release prior to OS2008 sucked.13:48
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qwerty12I never used OS2007, my N800 was flashed to OS2008 as soon as I recieved it. I just like it, I'm feeling nostalgic for something I haven't used :P13:49
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* GeneralAntilles shivers.13:49
GeneralAntillesThe OS2006 themes were horrifying.13:49
GeneralAntillesThe OS2005 ones were at least mildly subdued.13:50
GeneralAntillesBut OS2006 was a close cousin to some sort of primary color hell.13:50
eichidamn i have the IDEA preferences on the desktop and cant close the window now!!!13:50
* qwerty12 counts me to be lucky I wasn't around then :p :D13:50
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GeneralAntillesIf anybody has a Publix grocery store in their vicinity, they're selling a GE USB adaptor kit for $4 that has a Mini A to female A adaptor for host-mode.13:51
pupnikty for the tip AStorm13:51
AStormreboot for mogg needed...13:51
GeneralAntillesThank goodness for NuvoPearl and Plankton.13:51
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* qwerty12 googles publix13:51
eichihow can i close this windows now13:52
qwerty12Have you tried back key?13:52
eichilol thats it, thanks13:52
qwerty12hehe, it worked, I've never used IDEA :p :D13:52
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, best grocery store evar.13:53
GeneralAntillesThey have randomly awesome deals on weird computer accessories.13:53
qwerty12sniff, I don't think they will be in London :(13:53
GeneralAntillesLike 12' USB cables for $313:53
GeneralAntillesOr card readers for $813:53
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qwerty12£1.50 is too cheap13:54
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AStormno luck with canola13:57
qwerty12AStorm: I think INdT are working on it:
AStorm"working" lol13:58
AStormcan't they just use gnome-vfs for file detection?13:58
AStormor just try to read every file with gstreamer instead of being smartass?13:59
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AStormprobably reinstalling canola will help14:01
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AStormno, midday14:12
AStormwoot, new beta of canola14:13
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* lcuk_2 hates losing things14:14
AStormthen add rfids to them  :P14:16
AStormand some reader to your N8x014:16
lcuk_2not a bad idea actually14:18
lcuk_2the problem is - it was my 810 itself that went missing :S14:18
lcuk_2not really, it was my missus14:19
GeneralAntillesSure, sure.14:19
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lcuk_2yer i leave it plugged in last thing every night next to the bed - it seems to have a mind of its own though and ends up on missuses side14:20
GeneralAntillesYou need to buy her one.14:20
lcuk_2shes got her own machine -its just not as portable as this one14:21
AStormyeah , Nokias are attracted to women14:22
AStormwork like magnets14:22
* lcuk_2 . o O ( how do i make a cradle for a desktop with a crt ? )14:22
GeneralAntillesMaybe not like magnets.14:23
GeneralAntillesMy 770 only got me one number. :P14:23
AStormno no14:23
AStormthe Ns are attracted14:23
lcuk_2yer and that was flirt or divert14:23
AStormnot the girls to you14:23
GeneralAntilles:P, lcuk_2.14:24
christefanohow is tab completion14:24
christefanoturned on in the terminal?14:24
lcuk_2nokias are like little children - they need constant attention and teaching and automatically home into the breast14:24
lcuk_2os2008 console does completion14:25
christefanohey, it does. I wonder why it wasn't working before14:26
lcuk_2completion is a bit funny sometimes (or so i think)  it wont complete things you know are there until after you get past certain breaks14:28
AStormstill no ogg :/14:28
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christefanoah. okay14:28
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AStormhmm, had anyone got vorbis working in canola?14:33
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Cptnodegardcanola youtube plugin FTW14:48
AStormthat works14:51
AStormbut still no vorbis!14:51
AStormi need it!!!1114:52
Cptnodegardn800 has too crappy sound anyways so mp3 will do14:54
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Tama^2I doubt the choice of vorbis in this case had to do with quality14:58
sxpertCptnodegard, the earbuds are pretty good14:58
pupnikfmopl synth on DSP would speed up dosbox 2x14:59
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pupnikwish it were easier to do15:00
AStormCptnodegard: no, i won't be reencoding my collection15:00
AStormand, earbuds are shit15:00
AStormi have better phones15:00
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Cptnodegardi got a shitload of phones, doesnt help the fundamental fact its not as good as a dedicated mp3 player. unless you have somethign crappy like an ipod15:04
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AStormnah, it's close to my irivier T2015:07
AStormand that has excellent sound quality15:08
AStormabout 90 dB dynamics, much less aliasiing than it too at freqs other than 44100 hz15:09
Zichi, I've got the last Canola Beta 7 version with YouTube plugin, I want to save flash video in an other places of internal memory system, what can I do ?15:11
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AStormuse a symlink15:12
AStormread the thread at ITT15:12
Cptnodegardi A/B'ed the n800 and my cowon d2 just this morning on beyerdynamic dt770 phones. the n800 isnt bad, but it lacks both soundstage, low frequency response and detail compared to the d215:12
AStormC2 cheats :)15:13
AStormcheck it vs real audio15:13
AStormit has some dsp15:13
AStormit indeed lacks a bit of dynamic range15:14
AStormbut that's all15:14
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* GeneralAntilles prefers his Axiom bookshelves.15:15
Cptnodegardif the d2 sounds better i dont care if it cheats :p it was on flat EQ and no BBE enhancements15:16
AStormlow frequencies are all right here15:16
AStormno changes, that is15:16
AStorm(ofc tested with my cheap HD497 on hans)15:17
Cptnodegardi got a A/B switch, so i can connect two devices to the same headphones, play the same song simultaneousely and switch back and from. easier to detect differences that way15:17
pupnikbbe is still around?15:18
pupniki bought their first sonix maximizer15:18
AStormwell, my switch is digital :)15:19
Cptnodegardi would love the n800 to sound as good as the alternative, but thats just not the case15:19
Cptnodegardyeah BBE is around15:19
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Cptnodegardcowon use their technology on mp3 players15:19
AStormmy aureon 7.1 space doesn't agree15:19
pupnikman i used to run everything through that thing15:19
AStormtested vs best libmad, 24bit15:19
Cptnodegarddid some RMA tests on bbe vs EQ and the results are rather happyface15:19
AStormhm, RMA on N810 would be fun15:20
AStormdon't know how to do that though15:20
pupniksorry what is RMA?15:20
Cptnodegardall you need is a sound card with line in, a cable, and the program15:20
AStormRightMark Audio test15:20
Cptnodegardrightmark audio analyzer15:21
AStormI have one... buthow to make N810 play the test?15:21
Cptnodegardit measure the frequency response of audio sources15:21
CptnodegardRMA spits out some files (wav) that you put on the n81015:21
AStormand IMD, THD+N15:21
AStormhmm :)15:21
pupnikso you didn't get horrid results from headphone jack?15:22
AStormI'd expect about 90dB, no or slight IMD15:22
Cptnodegardim expecting some noticable crossover15:22
pupnikwhen i got my N810 i had a lot of distortion - like a broken speaker-cone in a telephone sound15:22
Cptnodegardsome speakers cant deal with the 4 pin of the nokias, thats what cause distortion15:23
pupnikno, like CB radio sound15:23
Cptnodegardmy logitech mm28 for instance15:23
AStormright, there's distortion if tghe volume is max15:23
pupniknow it's clear and i have no idea why15:23
AStormmaybe loose ground?15:23
pupnikwell it was so bad that if i'd have paid full retail i would have returned it15:24
pupnikoh well.  gone now15:24
pupniki just discovered a file in my sources directory  ... modified_raw_meat_for_transp_water_e3l1_t.zip15:25
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unique311pupnik, how goes the project?15:33
AStorm... sniff ... need vorbis15:33
pupnikuh playtesting is going well15:34
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Italodancei want max payne 1 2 please someone create it16:18
GeneralAntillesConvince them to compile it for ARM.16:18
Italodanceyes too16:20
lcuk_2ok, i want to try something16:22
lcuk_2pupnik, are you around16:22
lcuk_2GeneralAntilles, i know you have sounded interested, if you would send a pm with your mail address i will send you something to playwith16:23
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lcuk_2GeneralAntilles, :) got it - i will mail you a test16:25
lcuk_2any others whilst I am mailing out?16:27
lcuk_2sent :)16:29
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lcuk_2GeneralAntilles, did you get it?16:37
GeneralAntillesYeah, playing now.16:37
lcuk_2:D so it runs?16:37
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GeneralAntillesFramerate isn't as impressive as I was led to believe. :P16:37
GeneralAntillesDoesn't seem to like sizes under 20pts16:38
lcuk_2frame isnt drawn if you dont move - turn on the colorcube and it renders at fullspeed16:38
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lcuk_2i only tested with a couple of fonts - its putting the widths onto a 4 pixel boundary so more noticable on proportional fonts16:39
lcuk_2and since i read at 24 anyway its not a bother :P16:40
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't react to SIGINT16:40
GeneralAntillesTook me a little while to figure out how to make it dead. <_<16:41
lcuk_2it says it on the first page16:41
AStormcanola youtube plugin needs "next page" for its search16:41
lcuk_2what is sigint tho? ctrl c?16:41
GeneralAntillesWhat, the readme?16:41
GeneralAntillesFuck dat sheet.16:41
lcuk_2yer - also the default page thats displayed16:41
lcuk_2if you ran the program with no params it shows that readme :)16:42
lcuk_2on the first page it says how to escape16:42
GeneralAntillesI tried to run it without arguments first16:42
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GeneralAntillesbut it chocked since the readme wasn't there.16:42
GeneralAntilleschoked, even.16:43
lcuk_2you just copied the file instead of extracting the archive16:43
GeneralAntillesMy mail software is on the computer. :P16:43
* lcuk_2 makes a note and puts readme into source16:43
GeneralAntillesEh, it wont matter once you package it.16:43
GeneralAntillesVery interesting anyway.16:44
lcuk_2its the start of me reading properly on my maemo :)16:44
GeneralAntillesI think it'll end up complementing FBReader rather than replacing it for me.16:44
* GeneralAntilles still wants to setup a system to sync FBReader between multiple tablets.16:45
* lcuk_2 puts a syncmasterfolder option in and ensures reading data is kept in sync ;)16:46
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lcuk_2right, if anyone else wants a look at liqreader pm me with your address and i'll send it out.   im off for a while16:48
GeneralAntillesThanks, lcuk_2.16:48
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AStormanother rss reader?16:51
Navilcuk_2 is so awesome16:51
AStormcheck if it works with feeds from racjonalista.pl16:51
AStormthe default one doesn't like them16:51
GeneralAntillesRSS reader? <_<16:51
AStormso what is it?16:51
GeneralAntillesIt's an ebook reader. :P16:51
GeneralAntillesInteresting mostly because of the lack of tearing.16:52
Navieven better16:53
Navigimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme16:53
GeneralAntillesAutoscroll, too.16:54
AStormsupports pdfs too?16:54
GeneralAntillesUh, no.16:54
lcuk_2hahaha it barely supports txt yet (i just noticed a bug..)16:54
GeneralAntillesPDFs are teh suck.16:55
AStormbut necessary suck16:55
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, I'd like to see you pull that off, though.16:55
GeneralAntillesJust for the hilarity factor.16:55
GeneralAntillesSDL PDFs . . .16:55
AStormbtw, i need a working rss reader16:55
AStormany hints?16:55
GeneralAntilles9 times out of 10 PDFs are used where they shouldn't be.16:55
lcuk_2pdf is just flated text mainly in locations - if i can keep the number of fonts down its not outside the bnounds16:55
GeneralAntillesGood luck with that. :P16:56
AStormnot really16:56
lcuk_2this thing can blit text anywhere rapidly16:56
AStormit's often also gfx16:56
AStormevince works fast16:56
GeneralAntillesThe pictures will kill the framerate.16:56
lcuk_2pictures are just big glyphs :)16:56
GeneralAntillesGotta load them, though.16:57
AStorm(but the default one is better integrated)16:57
* lcuk_2 digs out his old vb pdf parser16:57
AStormVB, now that's the real epitome of suck16:58
AStormok now, how to get canola to read vorbis?16:58
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AStormi'm missing that ogg plugin17:11
AStormthe deb link at ITT is nvalid17:11
AStormah well17:15
AStormshould work with new ogg-support too17:15
mgedminwhich one is better -- mogg or ogg-support17:16
* mgedmin hates having a keyboard with enter shaped like shift17:16
AStormogg-support should be faster17:18
AStormbut none works17:18
AStormthere are worse17:20
AStormkeyboards with small / key17:20
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Navinone works?17:22
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mgedminI'm somehow not surprised17:23
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AStormnone, as they haven't updated canola scanner plugin yet...17:30
AStormtbd in this week17:30
AStormwhat is the name of the improved mail app?17:31
mgedmin"works" and "works with canola" are different things17:31
mgedminAStorm: modest17:31
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lcukwhy does apple not love the f5 and f6 keys?17:39
lcukall the others have additional icons, 5 and 6 are bare17:40
mgedminreserved for future use ;)17:41
JaffaAnyone know of a Nokia car charger with a straight, rather than curly, cable?17:42
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AStormhow to bind evince to pdf file format?17:48
AStormand modest to email notifier?17:48
JaffaFiddling around with mime types etc.17:50
JaffaSee for details on the specs17:50
AStormno gui for that? (like rox-mime)17:51
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AStormhmm, could someone pastebin me /usr/share/mime/packages/<something-with-email>.xml18:14
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mgedminfrom where? maemo, random desktop linux system?18:15
JaffaAStorm: my N810 has no XML files under /usr/share/mime containing the text 'email'18:16
AStormno no18:16
JaffaAnd there's no osso-email.xml under .../package/s18:16
AStormit should have mailto inside18:16
AStormgrep for mail please18:16
* Jaffa grepped for 'email' cos osso-email's the default handler.18:16
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AStormso where is that registered?18:17
AStormbleh, more xml to hack18:18
lcuk_2does every c program wanting sigterm ctrl c handling have to explicitely code it in?  or is my program ignoring them because of something i am doing18:22
AStormprobably gtk main loop installs its own handler18:23
lcuk_2its got init code for x and sdl and sdl_ttf and theres at least one atexit() but i would have thought it would still react and close the program18:24
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lcuk_2(and xv)18:24
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AStormyep, it's the signal call18:26
AStormand it's SIGINT, not SIGTERM18:26
lcuk_2so if i remove the atexit the program should revert to complete default and just exit when ctrl c is pressed?18:27
AStormatexit has nothing to do with signals18:29
lcuk_2ok - but how would i respond to ctrl c?  is it something i have to explicitely do or does ssh handle it?18:30
AStormby default it should close the app18:30
AStormunless something handles it18:30
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AStormare you using signal?18:31
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lcuk_2ive got no signal() calls in my code.18:31
lcuk_2nor do i reference signal.h18:31
AStormgtk/glib event loop?18:31
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lcuk_2no, its x based, i call XNextEvent18:32
AStormok, i've a q18:32
AStormany good app to handle video and pic capture?18:32
lcuk_2when i am running locally i get ctrl c keypresses, but over ssh it shouldnt come in as a key and should send a sig18:32
AStormlcuk_2: depends on ssh client18:33
lcuk_2ive not seen much - only basic camera app - the sensor is so substandard that its not pushed18:33
AStormnot so, standard webcam quality18:33
lcuk_2yer, whats the n95 got?18:34
qwerty125 MP afaik18:34
lcuk_2"webcam" quality is substandard :)18:34
AStormand this one is 1.5 or so18:34
AStormlcuk_2: nope18:34
AStormit's not a camera after all18:35
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lcuk_2n810 jack of all trades.18:36
AStormit doesn't even have a tv out18:37
lcuk_2its contrived but as near as you are gonna get18:38
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AStormit's n80018:40
AStormn810 doesn't have video out18:41
qwerty12So doesn't N80018:41
AStormit has a dongle?18:41
qwerty12In the nobounds, they demonstrate with N81018:41
AStormI want one for n81018:41
qwerty12They say N800 will be supported though (which is good for me)18:41
lcuk_2one other thing on all the debunking i notice.  all the apps are deffo windows programs - the xp titlebars are visible18:41
lcuk_2its just mirroring18:42
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AStormso, where do i get the host cable?18:46
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lcuk_2you got one with the 81018:48
lcuk_2its a sync cable with a f<->f connector :)18:48
lcuk_2host mode can be enabled with a command18:48
AStormnope, it's said the cable needs a hardware tweak18:54
AStormsome wire to be shorted to the ground18:54
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pH5AStorm: this is only needed to switch into host mode automatically.18:56
pH5as lcuk_2 said, you can enable host mode manually18:56
AStormwith a nice applet?18:56
qwerty12I actually updated the wiki page on this a bit at internet tablet talk18:57
AStormso i have to google for it18:57
AStormany repo?18:58
qwerty12Check this :
qwerty12Look at link at end for applet18:58
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Navipupnik, around?19:05
AStormusbcontrol is heavy!19:05
qwerty12lol you mean heavy as in great?19:05
AStormno, as in large19:05
qwerty12My bad, slang on the brain :P19:06
qwerty12Brb, need to reboot into windows to use a vfat check that actually does something.19:06
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mgedminqwerty12 doesn't know about dosfsck -r19:07
* mgedmin didn't know either until yesterday19:07
* mgedmin had to study the fricking manual page19:07
KotCzarnyisn't that what are man pages for?19:08
mgedminperhaps, but it's rude to ask me questions "do you want to repair this" and then ignore the answers quietly because I didn't pass the -r option19:09
mgedminrude, I say19:09
KotCzarnyit may be a bug19:09
mgedminprobably is19:09
mgedminthere's a though19:09
AStormhow do i disable xchat's tray?19:09
mgedminperhaps I should report it19:09
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ItalodanceUSB.Safely.Remove.v3.3.1.617.Cracked-NoPE   :D19:10
Italodanceit's good for us  yeah!19:11
KotCzarnynope, it isn't19:11
Italodancewhy? :I19:11
KotCzarny50% chance it's a trojan19:11
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AStormhmm hmm19:16
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AStormusbnet mode hung the machine19:16
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* mgedmin creates
qwerty12mgedmin: "qwerty12 doesn't know about dosfsck -r". Now, I do, thanks!. I was using fsck.vfat19:19
mgedminI think it's the same thing19:19
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KotCzarnyfsck.* are usually symlinks19:19
mgedminyup, symlink19:19
qwerty12Lol, I'm useless :D. I can't believe I went into windows :(19:19
mgedminin my opinion it's a bug in dosfsck rather than a bug in you :)19:20
mgedminI was very surprised yesterday when I ran dosfsck twice and it showed me the exact same errors on the second run19:20
qwerty12Thanks :D, I ran it 3 times and I got the same errors each time. I didn't look really closly though.19:20
KotCzarnymgedmin: otoh maybe they're just cautious19:21
mgedminI'm not objecting to not repairing stuff by default19:21
mgedminI'm objecting to the pretending to do the repairs without giving any useful information to the user19:21
KotCzarnyi agree to this one19:21
qwerty12I agree with mgedmin, I think its quite good behaviour but it should tell you that nothing was repaired and you should run it with -r option.19:22
AStormhmm, broken openssh update19:23
qwerty12openssh is always breaking for me with updates19:23
qwerty12I just remove and re install now.19:23
AStorminterdeps, all 3 pkgs need simultaneous update19:23
qwerty12You can use apt-get upgrade but its easier (better?) to remove and reinstall imho19:24
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AStormok then19:28
Cptnodegardlol i made some comparison pics between itouch/iphone and n8x0, resolution wise19:30
Cptnodegardfullscreen itouch fitsin smallscreen canola19:31
AStormiFoo loses19:31
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qwerty12Lol in my work experience my friend went into o2 store to play with iphone and he searched for redtube and the lady there saw him :D19:31
qwerty12Dont search for it19:32
Cptnodegardwhat is it?19:32
qwerty12xxx tube...19:32
Cptnodegardthgouth that was porno tube or something19:32
qwerty12theres redtube as well lol19:32
Cptnodegardhorny people and their websites -.-19:33
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mgedminplease don't make me install canola again!19:34
mgedminI will be strong! I will avoid closed-source software!19:34
mgedminI didn't buy an iphone, after all19:35
KotCzarnycanola is closed source?19:35
qwerty12canolad is oss :P19:35
mgedminsince when?19:35
Cptnodegardseptember 153619:35
mgedminthat's the greatest news since os2008 got released, if true19:35
qwerty12I'm joking about, canolad is one of the bits that make up canola. canola is not oss itself tho19:36
Cptnodegardi wouldnt be able to do anything with the source anyways so doesnt bother me19:36
qwerty12lol same here :D19:36
qwerty12If something compiles in scratchbox without any modification, then I'm happy :p19:36
mgedminah, I thought it was a typo19:36
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Cptnodegardif the release thread is without any trace of "just do this in xterm"-quotes then im happy :p19:37
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qwerty12mgedmin: I see what you mean, a and d are close. Cptnodegard: Lol, I don't mind xterm :P19:37
Cptnodegardi have no linux experience whatsoever19:38
Cptnodegardmost threads on itt gives me a headache19:38
Cptnodegardlooks like someone whacked the keyboard repeatedly in to the wall and posted the resulting symbols19:39
qwerty12I actually hadn't touched Linux in years but I'm amazed at what I know19:39
qwerty12openssh is still installing... :@19:40
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AStormhow can i downgrade mplayer?19:56
KotCzarnyinstall manually older package?19:56
qwerty12remove it and reinstall old one from deb19:56
AStormyeah right19:56
KotCzarnyor just extract binary and put it in /usr/local/bin19:56
qwerty12I actually keep 24 & 26 on my N80019:56
AStormbut where do i get the deb from19:56
KotCzarnythat's a newbie question19:57
KotCzarnyfrom repo of course19:57
KotCzarnyyou can also try package authors homepage19:58
AStormhope the port the patch to the new one20:02
KotCzarnybut there's no .26 yet20:02
AStorm(integer flv decode)20:02
KotCzarnyin that dir20:02
AStormin testing20:02
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Gepsuhi, what is the easiest way to update the content of a container?20:21
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drwxI'm trying canola youtube plugin it's amazing22:21
drwxbut do you know if it is possible to save youtube video on a mmc and not on the 256mo internal memory?22:22
MangoFusiontechnically you could save onto a mmc if you booted off of one22:23
KotCzarnyif it saves them to some dir, just make a symlink?22:23
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MangoFusionor for a slightly more sane approach, perhaps you could symlink the directory where the YT videos are stored to a directory on your mmc?22:24
drwxgood idea22:24
drwxthank you ;-)22:25
lcuk_2thats a workaround not a solution ;) might be an idea to mention somewhere on the official list if there is one - that way the devs can see if theres a real need22:26
KotCzarnythey should watch #maemo then!22:26
* lcuk_2 doesnt mind workarounds tho22:26
drwxI think there is a real need because 256mo is not much for all the youtube videos...22:27
KotCzarnymaybe they're developing on n81022:27
lcuk_2and if something happens to the internal memory then you are done for22:27
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GrackleMy N800 should arrive on Monday. ^_^22:28
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lcuk_2lost in the post? it should be an 810 nowadays :P22:28
drwxI have a N800 and a N81022:28
GrackleI have a 770, but I realized how much better the N800 was and ordered one before the 770 even got here.22:28
KotCzarny810 is inferior to 80022:28
drwxno I have both, and N810 is better22:28
GrackleI would like the screen and keyboard of the 810, but I don't really have that kind of money.22:28
lcuk_2810 extensions are inferior to 800 + extensions.   but style is everything and the 810 looks better22:29
KotCzarny810 only has better looks and hw kb22:29
lcuk_2yer - part time keyboard :)22:29
KotCzarnyeverything else is worse22:29
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GrackleThe 810 has a sunlight viewable screen too, doesn't it?22:29
lcuk_2i dont know i dont take it out in the car cos gps takes so long to fix its not worth it22:30
lcuk_2if i set it going before i go to work i am there before its connected22:30
lcuk_2(30min drive)22:30
Gracklehaha :|22:30
KotCzarnyand wbt-210 is only 95$22:30
lcuk_2its embarrassing22:30
KotCzarnyand has ~1-3sec fix22:30
GrackleThat's unfortunate.22:30
KotCzarnyand <2.5m resolution22:31
lcuk_2810 can re-fix in a few seconds as well, its just that first time is a bitch - its like the 40year old virgin22:31
KotCzarnyprobably software fixable..22:31
KotCzarnyor maybe not22:31
GrackleShouldn't the first time be really quick then?22:31
lcuk_2btw kot, pm me your addy and i will let you try a playtest :)22:31
KotCzarnyi'm not registered :)22:31
KotCzarnytjosko at yahoo dot com22:32
lcuk_2its a very rough playtest22:32
GrackleOh, does anyone have an N800 camera photo that I could see? I'm just curious about the quality.. I've played with tiny/cheap webcams before, and a lot of them suck pretty hard.22:33
KotCzarnygrackle: it's bad22:33
KotCzarnyi can show you .avi of it22:33
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MangoFusionn800 camera == euuuurrgh!!!22:33
GrackleAh well don't go out of your way to do it, I suppose that's good enough.22:33
Gracklehah :|22:34
KotCzarnyyou meant, 'bad enough'22:34
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KotCzarnyimagine first cellphone cameras22:34
KotCzarnyit's something like that22:34
MangoFusionthough then again if all you are doing is letting other people see your mugshot, then it's not so bad22:34
KotCzarnybah. what i am saying22:35
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KotCzarnyeven recent moto razr is bad.22:35
lcuk_2i want to use cam to register liqreader users ;)22:35
KotCzarnyluckily n800 camera is hidden by default22:36
wazdwell, n800 cam is good on bright light :)22:36
lcuk_2its not gonna take automatically (that will be my security program though)22:36
KotCzarny(another 810 inferiority ;)22:36
lcuk_2use a sticker over camera22:36
lcuk_2ive got one already over my ambient sensor22:36
KotCzarnyand loose 'chic advantage' of your n810?22:36
wazdAnd in the dark light every mobile camera suck SLR's ))22:37
GrackleYes, a sticker that says "Nope, no crappy webcams here!"22:37
KotCzarnythen you can have 800 as well22:37
lcuk_2nahh i gain a "well done" sticker (from my youngest)22:37
lcuk_2its got a smiley and everythin :D22:37
KotCzarnyyeeeah, sure22:37
KotCzarnybut it's still a 'patch'22:37
GrackleHave you guys tried poky linux on the IT?22:37
wazdtoday I had a bad thing and dropped my n800 to the floor22:37
lcuk_2lol @ patch22:37
lcuk_2pokey linux?22:38
KotCzarnywazd: last time they checked it wasn't functional22:38
KotCzarnyi mean no connectivity etc.22:38
KotCzarnyno pm too22:38
GrackleThe internet tablet version is very in-development, but what's there is very nice.22:38
smackpotatothe 810 has an awsume screen22:39
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GrackleThe interface is much better than openmoko/hildon, from a usability standpoint anyway.22:39
lcuk_2its touch sensitivity is lacking though - everyone wants to use finger to touch and slide22:39
wazdKotCzarny: who? where? how much?)22:39
lcuk_2you kind of press and judder22:39
KotCzarnywazd: google for irclogs22:39
Gracklelcuk_2: poky or the n810? Who's talking to who? *is confused*22:40
GrackleBecause I did notice that the touch sensitivity in poky is rather low.22:40
lcuk_2im on about the touch on the actual device - it doesnt matter which os is controlling it - its just not sensitive enough22:40
lcuk_2ipod has true glass screen and works well22:40
lcuk_2(but needs finger)22:40
lcuk_2this is a stylus controlled screen which is a bit of a shame22:41
GrackleAh. My comment was referring to poky on the 770. Sensitivity threshold is too high.22:41
Grackleipod is multitouch, too.22:41
* Grackle would like a multitouch display22:41
lcuk_2and low res22:41
Grackleyeah, much lower22:42
smackpotatoim talking to the chanel conversation in general but am 5  minutes behind the conversation. Im slow of thinking22:42
lcuk_2my brain gets lag sometimes - most often caused by intake of beer22:42
KotCzarnylcuk: where's the source?22:43
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lcuk_2on my drive22:43
wazdawww, multitouch!) Now you can pinch your fotos!)22:43
wazdI think we need capacitive touchscreen but not multitouch itself :)22:43
smackpotatoim sure the 810 has a glass screen its not scratching as much as my 70022:44
Gracklewazd: It's noticeable when using both thumbs on the screen (for instance when typing with thumbs)22:44
lcuk_2smack - it doesnt22:44
GrackleA multitouch screen would handle my large mashing thumbs better22:44
lcuk_2glass doesnt flex22:44
smackpotatowho knew22:44
lcuk_2(as much)22:44
bilboedmultitouch on the iphone is not multitouch, it's area-touch (it only recognizes the rectangular area where all your fingers are in)22:44
glassi'm pretty flexible22:44
glass(no i'm not)22:44
Gracklebilboed: Hm, that's interesting. Well, I would like that on the IT. :P22:45
GrackleCould that be done with the IT's hardware?22:45
wazdIt's capacitive touchscreen feature22:45
wazdIT haven't got it for now22:46
KotCzarny./liqreader: error while loading shared libraries:
lcuk_2my old tablet had to use a powered stylus - i could lean on it and not intefere - i think a big touchscreen now would throw me off - try leaning on one corner of your 8x0 whilst using the other corner22:46
KotCzarnyE: Couldn't find package libSDL_ttf22:47
KotCzarny(from apt-get)22:47
Grackleapt-cache search libsdl22:47
lcuk_2:( thought all that was preinstalled?   ahhh well at least i know to put it into an eventual package22:47
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GrackleMight be there, just not with that name.22:47
KotCzarnyarm. it's libsdl-ttf2.0-022:48
* Grackle goes off to take a shower while bitbake runs22:48
KotCzarnylcuk: i like it22:49
KotCzarnycan i get the source?22:49
lcuk_2once i release it yes certainly22:50
KotCzarnywhen it will be?22:50
* lcuk_2 takes a leaf out of duke nukems book.22:50
lcuk_2hopefully soon as i get some webspace properly22:50
KotCzarnyi can give you feature ide right now22:51
KotCzarnyadd finger-slide-multiplier22:51
lcuk_2i did do - it felt awful though - mainly because i didnt have anything showing where in document you were22:51
KotCzarnyright now it's tiresome a little22:51
lcuk_2yer i know - theres lots i want to add to it - theres bugs in this one at present even now it just shows that fullscreen flicker free rendering can be done22:52
KotCzarnybut i give it heads-up22:53
KotCzarnyi like it22:53
KotCzarnyjust don't overhildonize it22:53
KotCzarnyso it could be easily ported to regular linux too22:53
lcuk_2im seriously under hildonized at present22:53
lcuk_2yes i know22:53
KotCzarnymake it optional22:54
KotCzarnyi would love good reader on my laptop too22:54
lcuk_2it needs to be usable and play nice in both fullscreen and windowed but beyond that theres nothing specifically hildon22:54
wazd"Overhildonizer" )22:54
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wazdSounds like blockbuster)22:54
smackpotatohere is a random question, the core cursor shows up by commenting out the blurb about the transparent theme,  so in gtk setting cusor-theme-name will i get the core cursor, and will it happen immediatly or next boot22:54
KotCzarnypotato: probably after wm restart22:55
lcuk_2have you considered isolo through WINE ?22:55
lcuk_2im not sure how it would go..22:55
KotCzarnywine is too big22:55
lcuk_2have you seen the colorcube?22:56
KotCzarnyworks ok22:56
lcuk_2first attempt at seeing how all 3 planes operate22:56
KotCzarnyfps ~9-1122:56
lcuk_2o rly?22:56
lcuk_2stable 26/27 solid?22:56
lcuk_2it shouldnt clock down22:56
lcuk_2thats odd..22:56
KotCzarnyadd an option for fps to be printed out on stdout22:56
lcuk_2are you running on a lower cpu setting?22:57
KotCzarnythen i can print you the stats22:57
KotCzarnylcuk: it's running on default22:57
lcuk_2hmm did i remove that from the log22:57
KotCzarnyso pm kicks in probably22:57
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KotCzarnyalso handle ctrl-c22:57
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KotCzarnybtw. don't disable pm, i would prefer some tearing to battery drain22:59
lcuk_2doh!    //app_log("Main loop complete:   %i frames,  average fps %f\n",framecount,app_fps(tzs,tz0,framecount));23:00
KotCzarnypower management23:00
KotCzarny  |> Incoming/PaulOakenfol - PeteTong & SebFontaine  -EssentialMix - Live @ Creamfie.mp3.23:00
lcuk_2i dont do anything with it23:00
lcuk_2and when not showing the cube it only renders a frame after it detects a mouse eevent23:00
KotCzarnyi remember you saying something about keeping cpu at 100%23:01
lcuk_2ie its not going like the clappers23:01
lcuk_2you can see that by using -fpsshow23:01
lcuk_2i call into XNextEvent and wait patiently for an event to come23:01
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lcuk_2i asked about this ctrl c thing earlier - in the normal flow of things would a program have to explicitely register ctrl c handler, or is reader doing something it shouldnt23:02
lcuk_2(i couldnt get a straight answer earlier)23:02
KotCzarnyit should register a signal i think23:03
KotCzarnyotherwise it will be ignored23:03
lcuk_2right - thats why im not capturing anything - im used to it being handled automatically23:03
lcuk_2ill put a capture trap in later on then23:03
KotCzarnyit's a 2 liner anyway23:03
lcuk_2which is best host for applications?  it should have svn type things and management etc23:04
* lcuk_2 is thinking of sourceforge but theres gotta be others23:04
KotCzarnyif the project is small...23:04
KotCzarnyjust keep current .tar.gz of the sources23:04
skiburanybody installed ettercap? on the n800?  i can't find the executable.23:04
lcuk_2its just zipped up at present23:05
lcuk_2a whopping 23k! ;)23:05
lcuk_2sorry - 60k :P that was old one23:05
KotCzarnysmall but functional23:05
qwerty12_N800skibur: search internet tablet talk, some  1 has ng afair23:05
skiburi gotcha23:06
qwerty12_N800Hehe, i like to correct myself :p23:08
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KotCzarnylcuk: just run a thttpd off some dir and send a link23:12
KotCzarnysaving from webmail requires so many click23:13
lcuk_2since im on a windows box thats a hell of a lot of faffing23:13
lcuk_2ill get there..23:13
KotCzarnyi believe thttpd compiles under cygwin23:13
KotCzarnyif you want an .exe.. ;)23:14
lcuk_2actually i think ive got ftp server somewhere around already setup23:14
KotCzarnyftp doesn't play nice behind firewall23:14
lcuk_2:D i could use the vb webserver thats around23:14
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|zeus|hm. what pacakge should i install to get dmesg on n810?23:17
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KotCzarnynone, i believe it's already there23:17
lcuk_2its already included ?23:17
KotCzarny(via busybox)23:17
qwerty12_N800I thought it was standard linux anyway?23:17
skiburis svn available for n800?23:17
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KotCzarnyqwerty: standard as long you don't use busybox23:18
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qwerty12_N800 Ah right23:18
|zeus|oh yea23:19
|zeus|it here23:19
qwerty12_N800Btw, anybody know any proper irc client for chinook? Rtcomm beta wont work with irc for me and pidgin is a bit slow23:19
|zeus|but it doesn't recognize my minisd23:19
|zeus|at all23:19
KotCzarnyqwerty: irssi?23:20
|zeus|even dmesg doesn't say anything23:20
KotCzarnyzeus: connect usb cable and check on pc?23:20
KotCzarnyit should at least export device, maybe partition table is b0rken23:20
KotCzarnyor fs itself23:20
|zeus|KotCzarny: even _dmesg_ doesn't say anything23:21
qwerty12_N800Does dmesg by default?23:21
qwerty12_N800Kernel has options for mmc debug23:22
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qwerty12_N800I posted a  kernel for someone else with it compiled23:22
KotCzarnylcuk: 17:24:04 Main loop complete:   194 frames,  average fps 9.31796423:23
KotCzarnywith colorcube23:23
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KotCzarnyalso you should add some error handling23:25
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KotCzarnyi had to kill -9 it after: Xlib: sequence lost (0x101cf > 0x1d0) in reply type 0x5d!23:25
KotCzarnymy wifi is abused a little now23:25
lcuk_2humm indeed23:26
lcuk_2you on 800?23:26
KotCzarny17:26:47 Main loop complete:   98 frames,  average fps 8.60252823:26
KotCzarnythat's without colocube and with some scrolling23:26
lcuk_2without cube it should never reach average fps very high - it sits idle for most of the time23:27
lcuk_2but with it it really shouldnt be running slowly23:27
KotCzarnyit sometimes shows ~2723:27
lcuk_2the only way i can force the slowness is to call:23:28
lcuk_2echo powersave >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor23:28
lcuk_2which is not the default governor option23:28
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KotCzarnydefault is 'null'23:28
KotCzarnywhich is similiar to conservative23:28
lcuk_2default is ondemand23:29
qwerty12_N800Kernel lists null too as def.23:29
KotCzarnyor maybe you're right23:29
KotCzarnythough i don't remember setting ondemand23:29
qwerty12_N800Although I believe it runs ondemand23:29
KotCzarnyanyone know if setting keylock is putting device in more aggressive pm or regular?23:31
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lcuk_2could some folks with 800s and 810s please just check their scaling_governor setting and report back.23:32
lcuk_2cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor23:32
lcuk_2use that line ^23:32
KotCzarnyi know23:32
KotCzarnyit lists ondemand23:32
KotCzarnybut when you compile kernel it lists 'null' as default23:32
KotCzarnywhich isn't == 'no gov' but more like 'very conservative'23:33
|zeus|now it says something about "Setting voltage VMMC"23:34
|zeus|and then "Shut down VMMC"23:34
lcuk_2actually during testing i got the following order (slowest running to fastest):    powersave (slowest), ondemand (slow unless stroking),  conservative/performance/null (tied same full speed)23:34
qwerty12_N800In dmesg?23:34
KotCzarnyit's powersaving23:34
qwerty12_N800Standard kernel?23:34
KotCzarnyzeus: it's just powersaving23:35
KotCzarnyeveryone has them23:35
* |zeus| trying to uderstood is sd reader on new n810 are dead or not23:35
KotCzarnydo you have original sd card?23:36
KotCzarnymy n800 came with 128mb card23:36
lcuk_2810 comes with a soldered on 2gb23:36
lcuk_2and one slot23:36
qwerty12_N800Kotczaeny, I dont get those msgs tho but I am usinng custom kernel23:36
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KotCzarny800 comes with soldered 256 and 128mb minisd + adapter23:36
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lcuk_2:O i  just realised that i was still on performance23:40
lcuk_2after setting back to ondemand i reproduce..23:40
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KotCzarnychocolate time, brb23:41
lcuk_2yer my test script changes it one way, then changes it back23:41
* lcuk_2 hmm23:41
qwerty12_N800If scaling_governor line is changed; does scaling_min_freq change too?23:42
KotCzarnyprobably not23:42
qwerty12_N800Ah, ok, thanks23:42
qwerty12_N800I should combine those scripts i use...23:43
KotCzarnyone day i will make status bar applet that will have them all!23:43
lcuk_2hmmm, i might have to start doing garbage in my inner loop again - i cant have it doing that23:43
qwerty12_N800@KotCz (hope u dont mind me shortening down, osk sux), cool :)23:44
KotCzarnyyou can short down to 'kot'23:45
qwerty12_N800Thanks :)23:45
lcuk_2any idea what triggers the governor23:45
KotCzarnycpu usage23:45
lcuk_2but i am trying to use the cpu at fullspeed23:46
KotCzarnythen it's probably not enough23:46
KotCzarnyjust play some mp3s ;)23:46
lcuk_2if i put extra code into the blit loop it forces it over and keeps up23:46
lcuk_2but thats just stupid..23:46
KotCzarnywith gst and mp3task23:46
KotCzarnythat way you won't eat cpu and set cpu to highest mode23:46
lcuk_2i seem to recall thinking this way a while back - i dont want to have to run extra things just to get a loop faster23:46
lcuk_2it will eat battery though23:47
KotCzarnyit's only for testing23:47
KotCzarnyisn't it?23:47
KotCzarnyalso people can play mp3s while reading23:47
KotCzarnyso can you23:47
lcuk_2yer but i dont wanna have to say to see it smoothly you must stroke like you have hairy palms or change the governor23:47
qwerty12_N800You could try echo 400000  > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq ; dunno if it would help though.23:47
lcuk_2no, im not gonna tweak power saving settings for the whole device23:48
KotCzarnylcuk: i don't mind tearing23:48
lcuk_2there must be a way to up my own thread priority - i can do it in vb ffs23:48
lcuk_2its not tearing thats the issue23:48
KotCzarnyusefullness is what i need23:48
lcuk_2its VERY difficult to tear23:48
lcuk_2i have to repeat the blit loop about 4 times before i can see tearing23:48
* |zeus| brok miniSD card now :(23:49
lcuk_2then if i push it a bit more it just lowers the framerate a bit23:49
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lcuk_2fysa, are you knocking around ?23:50
lcuk_2(when in doubt, pray to the gods)23:50
qwerty12_N800lcuk_2: not sure if this is what you are after, but it only seems for bora :
lcuk_2that might do it - but is there not something within the app itself which i can say (process.priority = high;)23:52
KotCzarnyi think23:52
KotCzarnydon't remember syntax though23:53
KotCzarnyman setpriority23:53
lcuk_2yer im just looking now - ive got the winapi version and finding linux refs23:53
KotCzarnybut priority is not your problem i think23:54
KotCzarny  |> Essential Mix 08-08-2006 - Sven Vath ()23:55
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lcuk_2its worth a try, i dont see how when i run a flat out loop and try to go fast it doesnt identify it23:56
KotCzarnythen you will probably need 'real time' priority23:56
lcuk_2i know it can handle it properly - i might have to just include the extra code in my blit :(23:56
lcuk_2int dummy = (x*y+x*y); *dummyin=dummy;23:57
lcuk_2and bammo - the code runs faster - even though i am actually performing that equation thousands of times23:57
KotCzarnylcuk: just open mp3task23:58
KotCzarnyyou don't have to play anything23:58
KotCzarnyjust keep it open23:58
KotCzarnythat will set cpu to highest mode23:58

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