IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-03-14

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lcukits all in the lcd driver, it just needs triggering00:00
KotCzarnyyes, but it needs a kernel patch to enable that ioctl00:00
KotCzarnyi think00:00
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lcuknot that i saw - when i was first looking i was playing with the omapfb code and randomly poking - i believe in amongst that i rotated the screen00:01
KotCzarnyi would trust more simple kernel patch than leaving kernel/fb at unknown state00:02
lcuki would have to go over my notes and see but basically you send a rectangle of data and the correct bits it will display in the orientation and placement you say00:02
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lcukit reverts at next refresh - you set the bit before sending it - its similar to the scaling hacks ive seen in sdl00:02
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KotCzarnymy idea is: 'test it, use it, if enough people will report it working nokia will release updated kernel too'00:04
lcukit will become useless anyway if xr&r gets into the kernel - cross your fingers and hope for nokia - the problem is that so far it only useful for *nothing* hildon doesnt fully support it yet00:04
KotCzarnylcuk: not true00:04
KotCzarnyhave you seen the vid?00:04
briandokay.. so, apparently the new Canola2 is out (beta6).  The directions on the site clearly do not (or, in my case, did not) work... so, how do I get it?00:04
lcuki thought hildon breaks still if you rotate it00:04
jottthere are places where it breaks00:05
lcukie you cant get at everything and random things are off00:05
jottbut reading/browsing/etc is fine00:05
pupnikevening :)00:05
lcukyer - thought so jott - obviously its all fixable, but nokia have no reason to support it yet00:05
KotCzarny'features!' 'new!'00:05
lcukevening pup :)00:05
KotCzarnyit's basically free rotation, cpu cycles wasted00:06
KotCzarnyso why not use it00:06
KotCzarnyerm. 'no cycles wasted'00:07
Tama^2how about the refresh?00:07
lcuki agree - but just because its free does not mean it adds value00:07
briandah.  nevermind.  "Refresh Application List" first... now the beta6 shows up in the updates...00:07
Tama^2does it 'tear' more when it is rotated?00:07
lcukDMA operation from the controller - cpu isnt involved00:07
lcuksame amount00:07
jottlcuk: for me it adds value..00:07
KotCzarnyand 'wow' value00:08
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jottand the rotated fbreader is really fast :)00:08
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lcuki really want it put in place because damn for the reader to read sideways will be a blessing - but from nokias pov its not essential - especially now they have a defined orientation based upon the keyboard00:08
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lcukfbreader shouldnt be slower just because its rotated00:08
lcuki know it is00:08
lcukits even slow going backwards by pages - sometimes it can lock up for seconds at a time00:09
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jottand microb is nice too00:09
jottbut i agree, the keyboard fixes the default orientation00:09
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lcukif we are on about nokia developing something worthwhile, how about blasted support for the pvr00:09
KotCzarnyn800 is keyboardless00:09
jottbut given that the rotation is done <1s you can flip as you like :)00:09
lcukjott, giz a linky please to the deb00:10
jottlcuk: well making maemo/hildon resolution independed is a major win00:10
lcukis it possible without the plugin00:11
lcukcan it be enabled (for instance) on aa sdl window with a hack?00:11
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lcukor an x - xv panel00:11
jottwell it uses the randr extension00:11
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lcukwhich automatically scales etc - i think it is because i am certain i got it rotating by messing with omapfb00:12
jottlook at the rotation source code.. i just put it on00:12
KotCzarnyno scaling00:12
lcuki just noticed ;)00:12
KotCzarnyit just changes x root screen to 480x80000:12
KotCzarnyand all rotating is invisible from app level00:12
lcukyer kot - i know, but if i currently push an 800*480 xv window into a hildon x window which isnt fullscreen the 800*480 bits still go across but are scaled to fit automatically00:12
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KotCzarnylcuk: why don't you try it?00:13
KotCzarnyyou know about xv/sdl more than me00:13
lcukso - if i enable the rotation without changing anything else then i will get a stretched 480*800 screen00:13
lcukthats what im gonna do right now...00:13
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lcuki just got the code so ill poke around and see00:14
KotCzarnyyou get 480x800 pixels00:14
lcuksquashed into a normal hildon app window space00:14
KotCzarnybut still 1:1 pixel ratio00:14
lcukno i dont00:14
lcuklcd internally is in tv mode which scales any input to fit the defined area00:14
KotCzarnyyou think at ioctl level00:15
KotCzarnypatch makes it invisible to user00:15
KotCzarnyx server changes res to 480x80000:15
lcukyes - i am thinking at app specific level and not trying to rotate other peoples programs, but in absense of official nokia fix it may be enough00:16
KotCzarnythe point of xrandr is to make rotating possible without a single line of the code changed for existing apps00:17
lcukand anyway - specific programs MAY want a specific orientation - i know mine does00:17
KotCzarnyif you make your app capable of rotating in itself, sure, it will work too00:17
lcukyes :)00:18
KotCzarnybut that's additional work00:18
KotCzarnygood for you to have a code in case of porting it to something else00:18
lcukso how else am i going to get rotation and test it with multiple people if they have to install a kernel mod?00:18
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KotCzarnykernel mod can be installed in 5 min00:19
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lcukits all academic anyway because i will be blitting text onto a screen one way or another00:19
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lcukand as for porting - if i end up on a device which doesnt have r&r, then what?00:20
KotCzarnybut consider microb.. ;)00:20
KotCzarnydoing roation on app level means you will have to make changes to all apps you want to use00:21
lcukplease do - it works currently.  how does it look rotated?  is scrolling better?00:21
KotCzarnyxrandr way frees you from that00:21
lcukis  xrandr on 770?00:21
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lcukhow about on my pocket loox?00:22
KotCzarnyi don't have 77000:22
KotCzarnyand pocket loox too00:22
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KotCzarnyok, nap time00:25
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lcuknite kot00:25
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pupnikhaha if (!InitVideo()) erk();00:27
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Tama^2is that some kind of onomatopoeia?00:28
pupnikyeah like doh()00:28
Tama^2but in which language?00:29
jottTama^2: if in doubt ask :)00:29
Tama^2I will ask00:29
jottthis site can be funny sometimes ;)00:29
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pupnikjott, bored? :)00:37
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jottpupnik: not atm - but it happens once in a while :)00:39
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eichihello, is there a maemo calender that can be synct with an other linux application (notebook) without problems? no google stuff please00:39
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pupnikwow i'm getting less slightly less clueless and confused00:49
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pupnikeichi: pinlico, gpe00:49
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jotteichi: pimlico00:51
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eichii use the gpe calender on maemo00:52
eichibut what can i use for laptop?00:52
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jottsorry, never seen a working sync solution :P00:55
jottatleast on gpl basis :)00:55
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darxdoes anybody know where the file is located under os2008?01:11
darxwould it only work for the arm architecture?01:11
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MangoFusionxrandr + n800 = woo01:15
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leo2007what's the best pim in n810?01:33
pupniksearch forums01:34
pupnikgpe, pimlico perhaps?01:34
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leo2007pupnik: thanks01:56
leo2007Can anyone emacs user tell me the start up time for Emacs?01:56
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genome4hireWith Canola, how do I tell it to download my podcasts to the external flash card?02:00
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genome4hireI've been getting a lot of "dangling symlink" errors when installing packages recently02:09
genome4hireanyone had these?02:09
genome4hireI just tried to install powerlaunch, and it's complaining about stuff in /etc/rc2.d02:10
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LateralusAnyone have experience adding a daemon to the default runlevel?02:14
pupniki think you just add a symlink in /etc/rc2.d but take that with grain of salt02:15
LateralusMy daemon will start from a terminal if I use /etc/init.d/daemon start, but it doesn't start when I turn on the device. I've used update-rc.d daemon defaults02:15
Lateraluspupnik, the symlinks exist02:15
LateralusSome things like the dbus daemon might not be running yet, causing issues, I'll research how to specify to start my daemon after a few other things02:17
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LateralusAh, I see how.02:19
Lateralusupdate-rc.d -f daemon start 99 5 might help02:19
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pupnikdoes that do more than create the symlink to /etc/init.d/$script ?02:22
Lateralusappears it adds the numbers to the link name02:23
Lateraluss/it adds/to add/02:23
infobotLateralus meant: appears to add the numbers to the link name02:23
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pupnikmain.cpp:800: error: expected constructor, destructor, or type conversion before '.' token02:25
Lateralushmm, making it start last didn't help02:26
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Lateralusoh well.02:28
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LateralusIs anyone aware of a log I can check?02:31
LateralusI don't see anything in /var/log/ etc02:31
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pupnikdmesg command02:32
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Lateraluspupnik, hmm, nada there.02:34
Lateralusdidn't expect anything in that log, though02:34
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pupnikwoohoo!  compiled!02:47
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LateralusIs anyone aware how the osso rss feed reader gets under the Internet menu?03:07
LateralusI thought the symlink was supposed to determine where things show in the menu, but the /etc/others-menu on my device doesn't seem to correlate to the menu layout03:08
Lateraluseg, the rss feed reader is symlinked right under others-menu/ not in some internet subfolder or some such03:08
KotCzarnythere's more to the menu than it meets the eye..03:08
LateralusI'm seeing that :p03:09
KotCzarnyavailable apps are extracted from /usr/share/applications/hildon/03:09
KotCzarnyor something03:09
LateralusI just want my app under the Internet menu, instead of Extras03:09
KotCzarnyjust settings for that03:09
KotCzarnysettings -> control panel -> panels -> organize03:10
LateralusKotCzarny, they are, but the symlinks are supposed to determine where and in what order they show up03:10
Lateraluschecking that out03:10
LateralusKotCzarny, no way you know of to install in the correct place from the start?03:11
KotCzarnyyes, there is03:11
KotCzarnythere was a command to insert into .deb03:11
Lateralusexcellent, thanks03:13
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KotCzarnyxrandr rocks :))03:20
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KotCzarnyxrandr -o inverted is nice for people using right thumb for navigation ;)03:25
KotCzarnyand mplayer seems to respect orientation03:27
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jotthm yeah i should integrate remapping of the dpad into the rotation applet03:28
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KotCzarnyjott: good idea03:28
KotCzarny720x576 -> 360x28803:30
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KotCzarnyerm. nvm03:34
jotttoo late :)03:35
KotCzarnyi whink i need to flash updated kernel03:35
KotCzarnyjott: how about using xrandr command and not librandr?03:37
jotthm.. yeah i can put it on the site..03:37
* jott looks for the deb03:37
KotCzarnyhaving xrandr as a command is handy too03:38
jottyeah.. i used it for debugging :)03:38
KotCzarnyand that will free you from using libxrandr03:38
jottwell not very convenient in a everyday mobile usage :)03:38
KotCzarnybut for the scripts ;)03:39
KotCzarnyor debugging ;)03:39
jotthold on i'll repackage it :)03:39
KotCzarnyno problem03:39
KotCzarnyjust a note :)03:39
jottdoesn't xrandr need libxrandr anyway? :)03:39
KotCzarnyok, scratch that03:40
KotCzarnybut hmm03:41
KotCzarnyi didn't have to install libxrandr before03:41
KotCzarnyi presume it was installed03:41
KotCzarny(with a x package)03:41
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KotCzarnylardman: do you have xrandr installed?03:43
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KotCzarnyjott: yeah, i guess it's preinstalled with os2008 at least03:44
jottok put an xrandr deb on (and in the repo on the same location)03:48
Jsn0327anyone around?03:52
jottno we are a big eliza botnet testframework03:52
Jsn0327do you know if there is a way to keep the backlight on the keyboard illuminated ?03:53
KotCzarnymplayer uses it for example03:54
celestehhow does the backlight on the keyboard illuminated remind you of your mother?03:54
KotCzarnyerm. sorry03:54
KotCzarnyit was for the screen03:54
jottcelesteh: haha :)03:54
KotCzarnybut i guess there's a way for kb too03:54
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Jsn0327the backlight on the keyboard only stays illuminated while you are using it so if your in a dark place and try to start retyping you hit wrong letters03:56
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jottJsn0327: i usually just press the lower right shift key - there are very few application where it causes harm :)03:57
KotCzarnyinternal speakers could use some subwoofer magic03:57
KotCzarnybtw. using esd seriously lowers volume03:58
KotCzarnyie. killing esd and playing through alsa make a big difference03:58
Jsn0327Good idea03:58
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Jsn0327Does anyone know how to change the panel icons? i installed  a theme but none of the icons changed to match the screenshots of the theme04:00
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Tama^2have you tried restarting the device?04:01
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Jsn0327not yet04:02
KotCzarnyapplying theme should do the trick?04:02
Jsn0327i'm gonna reboot04:03
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KotCzarnyjott: another thing to do after rotation: update wallpaper04:05
jottKotCzarny: use a tiling wallpaper :)04:05
KotCzarnydoesn't matter, it still will need updating04:06
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KotCzarnywell, i think i'll just stretch it to 800x80004:06
jott ->
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KotCzarnymy status bar is full :)04:08
KotCzarny(and complete ;)04:08
KotCzarnyrotate, cpu/mem, wifi, batt, hour, minute, brightness/volume04:09
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jottyeah brighntess/vol could be integrated in rotate or vice versa04:10
KotCzarnyand i don't like the idea that updating statusbar icon writes to disk04:10
KotCzarnyie. changing volume04:10
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KotCzarnystupid script04:33
KotCzarnyjott: btw. tiled is also flawed04:37
KotCzarnyif you look carefully you will see it04:37
KotCzarnytry setting this one:
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pupnikheh sbemail... justification for new browser04:43
bmidgleyjott: is the rotation page yours?04:43
jottbmidgley: yes04:43
bmidgleyjott any chance you'd consider a more user-friendly dropdown, like
KotCzarnyi opt for leaving as it is04:44
jotthmm maybe just add icons04:44
jottto the menu entries04:44
KotCzarnyit will need nokia mini icon with an arron04:45
KotCzarnyor simple line representing status bar location :>04:45
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bmidgleydoes "left" always mean the same thing or does it mean once more left from where you are?04:45
KotCzarnyalways same04:46
KotCzarnyit's relative to original state, not current04:46
bmidgleyyeah, the icons have to be relative to current state to make sense04:46
KotCzarnybmidgley: or have nokia picture04:46
KotCzarnylet me mockup..04:46
jottand the same as xrandr status is :)04:47
bmidgleymy scripts also use xrandr but there's a compute-the-change stage04:47
bmidgley(for ubuntu desktop)04:47
jottwell the actual applet does only use libxrandr04:48
jottnot the xrandr executable :)04:48
jottKotCzarny: yeah i see what you mean with the background image04:48
KotCzarnyjott: :)04:48
jotti wonder where the bug is04:49
KotCzarnyit's because wallpaper is cut to current screen04:49
jotthildon stuff?04:49
jotthmm :)04:49
KotCzarnydon't know exactly04:49
KotCzarnybut i suspect wallpaper applet04:49
jotti.e. tiling pre-computes a 800x480 image?04:50
KotCzarnyor 480x80004:50
jottyeah atleast fixed to active resolution04:50
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KotCzarnydepending what was current screen estate when setting background04:50
KotCzarnyso tile woul have to fit integer* for x and y04:51
jottgood look we use open source and could find this out easily... WAIT this is NOKIA and hence closed source :)04:51
^JSNhow do you configure root so that you can a user can use sudo to run apps?04:51
^JSNMostly everything that i try to run using sudo says "user is not allowed to execute .... as root04:51
jott^JSN: if you have a desktop linux with man page do "man sudoers"04:52
^JSNman page? what is that04:53
jotthmm ok :)04:53
^JSNi do have a desktop linux04:54
^JSNi am currenly on kbuntu04:54
^JSNi'm guessing that man page is a search engine for linux commands04:54
jottman pages are manuals for applications and apis etc04:54
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^JSNwhats the package name so i can download it04:55
jottin command line you could just type "man ls" to get help about ls04:55
KotCzarnydarn. battery empty04:55
KotCzarnygotta recharge before mockup04:55
^JSNcool it's built in04:55
jott^JSN: there is "manpages" but many apps install own man pages04:55
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jott^JSN: in kde you can also use konqueror to browse the pages .. just type "man:yourkeyword" in the location bar :)04:57
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^JSNdo you know how to join a workgroup in ubuntu?  The only option that i can find is domain04:58
KotCzarnyjott: tile has to be 160x16004:58
jottKotCzarny: or 480x480 ? ;)04:59
jottor 80x80? :)04:59
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KotCzarny80x80 will do04:59
KotCzarnybut not 480x48004:59
jottoh sure 480x480 not04:59
jottmy bad04:59
KotCzarnyit has to fit exact number of times both ways04:59
MegaTrousersDoes anyone know where I can find a more complete / recent binary package of GnuPG other than the stripped down osso-gnupg package?05:00
jottstupid anyway05:00
KotCzarnyjott: yup, but works05:00
KotCzarnyi love math05:00
_]-[andful__jott : are you the owner of the ssnet2 site?05:00
KotCzarnythis one is nice05:00
jott_]-[andful__: yes05:01
_]-[andful__ah nice :) I was searching for your nickname at least to place there in my post :)05:01
_]-[andful__and we had a question, (we tried looking for your patch but didn't find)05:01
_]-[andful__you say on your site that you made some fixes...05:01
jottyeah reload :)05:01
_]-[andful__did you fix the bluescreen (when screen dimes) ?05:02
_]-[andful__ah nice that was the todo missing from us also :/05:02
jotti already put the source online05:02
_]-[andful__(I work with Rodrigo Vivi)05:02
jottah nice05:02
_]-[andful__nice :) no problem (we were not "demanding" anything)05:02
jottna it's fine.. better push things :)05:02
_]-[andful__just because when we readed (fix) we thought that you probably have solved the bluescreen issue :)05:02
KotCzarnyit's more like, teal-screen issue05:03
KotCzarnyat least on my n800 ;)05:03
_]-[andful__Kot : perfectly said :)05:03
jottKotCzarny: but it's actually blue :)05:03
KotCzarnyand yes, it's fixed05:03
_]-[andful__nice :)05:03
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KotCzarnyjott: blue has bad associations05:03
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_]-[andful__we already have some "transition" effects when inside canola :)05:03
^JSNdoes anyone know how to change the icons on the panels on the n810?  i've changed themes but the icons didn't change at all and i've tried rebooting.  still the same icons05:04
_]-[andful__so your applet will be quite handy for the maemo part :) and we can do our stuff without bothering the users that don't use canola :)05:04
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_]-[andful__this has generated so much "noise" (positive ones) :)05:06
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_]-[andful__I just wished we had the same sensor as in the n95s  hidden somewhere :)))05:07
jotthehe i've seen a hardware hack for an usb based acceloremeter for the n8x0 :)05:09
KotCzarnyit will stick out :/05:09
KotCzarnysdio one could be nice05:09
jotthihi yeah05:09
_]-[andful__yeah, we have some works around one using the camera, but too much cpu : / doesn't even worth it05:09
_]-[andful__ah, and crappy precision in several situations :)05:10
jotthehe pancake faces? :)05:10
^JSNwhat is a acceloremeter?05:11
jott^JSN: this thingie that detects spatial orientation05:11
jottand acceleration :)05:12
KotCzarnymore like acceleration in specific direction05:12
Navi'tis what the name says05:12
_]-[andful__so you can do like , auto rotation, like digital cameras, and n95s and the iphones :)05:12
KotCzarnyhandfull: i can just click on jott's applet05:12
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_]-[andful__(and more, like tilt based games, and some other not so useful applications ) : )05:12
KotCzarnyit's as fast and doesn't use cpu cycles05:12
_]-[andful__yeah, me too :)05:12
KotCzarnyshaking it could damage nokia05:13
derfProperly, angular orientation is handled by a gyroscope, not an accelerometer.05:13
KotCzarnyif it slips out ;)05:13
jottderf: yeah you're right :)05:13
_]-[andful__derf:  yeah :) sorry :)05:13
Naviderf, a combination of both is actually the best.05:14
jottanyway.. we don't have it in current n8x0 devices :/05:14
KotCzarnynot a big loss05:15
derfI would think a much more interesting application would be to combine it with GPS with a Kalman filter so, for example, when you go under a bridge your track doesn't start wandering through buildings.05:16
KotCzarnybetter gps would be needed first05:16
derfUnfortunately, both GPS and accelerometers suck when you're not moving.05:16
_]-[andful__derf : yeah that's quite useful05:16
KotCzarnymaybe one day someone will integrate bt/gps/gyro/accmeter05:17
MegaTrousersDoes anyone know where I can find a more complete / recent binary package of GnuPG other than the stripped down osso-gnupg package?05:17
derfYeah, if I were doing it, I'd just put it directly in the BT GPS unit.05:17
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KotCzarnythat way you can fix bt unit to a vehicle05:18
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KotCzarnyand use nokia freely05:18
^JSNis there any way to setup file sharing in maemo?05:19
KotCzarnyjsn: just install ssh server05:19
KotCzarnyor sshfs05:19
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KotCzarnydepending which way you want to share05:19
^JSNdo you have to use the sshclient threw the command prompt to access the shares everytime?05:19
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KotCzarnysshfs mounts it permanently05:20
^JSNi mean terminal05:20
KotCzarnyand it will look as a regular dir05:20
KotCzarnyfor every app05:20
^JSNoh ok05:20
^JSNis it a seperate app than the openssh client?05:20
^JSNis that the package name?  my apt-get couldn't find it05:21
KotCzarnyi don't know, i have seen it somewhere in a package form05:22
Navi_]-[andful__, just wondering, do the icons have to be a certain size?05:22
KotCzarnyi just installed it myself from sources05:22
MegaTrousersMaemo is completely useless and the N810 almost worthless without gpg.05:22
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KotCzarnyMegaTrousers: get sdk and compile/package it yourself05:22
KotCzarnythat's what opensource is05:22
MegaTrousersI think I will do this.05:22
_]-[andful__yeah, the size that is there, unfortunately we cannot deal with vector scalling to use it in bigger sizes and the scale down..etc05:22
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^JSNwhat is gpg?05:23
_]-[andful__so we chose the best size to the whole thing :) with a little bit more of cpu / gpu we will pass to higher resolution icons05:23
Navi_]-[andful__, okay, that's fine.05:23
_]-[andful__so you opened the design sheet?05:23
_]-[andful__the most important things are the slice sizes, and the naming :)05:23
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Navi_]-[andful__, yeah, I've opened the sheet05:24
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_]-[andful__so you noticed that there's no "graphics" for the settings part..we are keeping that in another set05:25
NaviI didn't notice ^_^05:25
_]-[andful__and I think youtube / are included already in the sheet, but people will need to take care when doing plugins to be theme agnostic :)05:26
NaviYeah, they are05:26
Navias well as a few other miscellaneous icons05:26
^JSNis there any way to display album art for each mp3 in canola?05:26
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_]-[andful__^JSN : unm05:28
_]-[andful__I think not (being from the same album, not... but if you remove the album tag from your id305:28
_]-[andful__and add embedded album art yes05:28
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^JSNnot by defualt. everyone of my mp3's have embeded album art and it doesn't display05:30
KotCzarnyor better 'all' or 'each'05:31
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_]-[andful__^JsN : did you run canola-tuning ?05:31
_]-[andful__it's being integrated, but for now you need to install and run, it will detect the embedded art for you, do what needs for canola to show it correctly05:31
^JSNi'm not sure05:32
^JSNi think it's installed but i don't think i've ever run it05:32
_]-[andful__:) yeah, do that it will get from any image in the album folder, then embedded, then fetchs from the internet05:32
^JSNdo you run it?  or does it run after it's installed?05:32
_]-[andful__also the video thumbnails05:32
_]-[andful__you need to run05:32
_]-[andful__it's a small python application05:33
^JSNoh yeah i have the album art downloader05:33
_]-[andful__it's probably on your extras05:33
^JSNit downloaded all of the album art05:33
_]-[andful__the downloaded, gets also from embedded05:33
_]-[andful__actually tries embedded first :05:33
^JSNwhich looks sweet. but it would be alot better if each mp3 displayed the album art05:33
_]-[andful__JSN : there's a small problem with that : when doing a heavy loaded screen like the album art05:33
_]-[andful__is impossible to "keep reading"  from the mp3s itself05:34
_]-[andful__so, we do cache it in the best size possible for canola to us05:34
^JSNis the canola tuneing the video thumb and album cover apps?05:34
_]-[andful__both apps05:35
^JSNok well i have that and i've run them.  they do download for the entire album, but it's only displayed when you view all albums.05:36
_]-[andful__let's go private05:36
_]-[andful__so you can explain me better05:36
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jotta bit hard to see the difference between left/right up/down :)05:39
KotCzarnydpad :)05:39
KotCzarnybut try it05:40
KotCzarnyi wonder how it will look in real menu05:40
jsn0327_]-[andful__: I sent you a PM did you receive it?05:40
_]-[andful__I'm answering to you there05:41
KotCzarnyjott, maybe i should do the photos with dpad led enabled05:41
jotthehe and use a n810 :)05:41
KotCzarnyi have n800 :)05:41
jotti know :)05:41
KotCzarnybut if someone has n810 he can make another icons set05:41
jottsomething platform agnostic would be nice :)05:43
KotCzarnyhmm, not true05:43
_]-[andful__jsn0327: do you see my pm messages also?05:43
KotCzarnyplatfor agnostic is 'normal, left, reverse, right' ;)05:43
jsn0327no i'm not seeing them05:43
_]-[andful__so enter #canola05:44
jottKotCzarny: that's why i chose it in the first place :)05:44
_]-[andful__them we can talk more about that and not flood here05:44
KotCzarnyyes, and i agree it's ok :)05:44
KotCzarnyand any user can get used to it easily05:44
KotCzarnyor just click through to get what he wants05:44
KotCzarny4 options is not so much ;)05:45
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jottand when they use xrandr later, they even know what the -o flags are called ;)05:47
kcomehi all05:48
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KotCzarnynice 'wallpaper' pack05:53
vivijimjott: hi, are you there?05:54
jottvivijim: a bit05:54
vivijimjott: thanks for your contribution on screen rotation! :D I loved you rotate-sb-plugin :)05:55
vivijimI couldn't test your patch of my patch to linux kernel yet because I have no micro usb cable at home05:55
jottyou're welcome :)05:55
KotCzarnyvivijim: use fanoush kernel flasher05:56
jottyeah the current solution is still not optimal05:56
vivijimjott: I'd like to know if it has fixed the blue screen that I get after screen switch off05:57
vivijimKotCzarny:  I don't know it... where can I find it?05:57
KotCzarnyvivijim: google?05:57
KotCzarnyvivijim: yes, it's fixed05:57
jottvivijim: i guess you can easily spot the differences (update screen w/h) and setting the register cache..05:57
vivijimKotCzarny: I'm looking for05:57
jott(though this is only needed when you rotate while in power save mode :)05:58
vivijimI'm installing it. thanks!06:00
vivijimI can't wait to test it :D06:00
KotCzarny'installing' ?06:00
KotCzarnythat's a big word for wget and untar :)06:01
jottok i'm off for a bit.. laters06:04
KotCzarnygo go06:04
KotCzarnyand thx06:04
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KotCzarnyhmm, built-in flash isn't checked while writing06:17
KotCzarnyCONFIG_MTD_ONENAND_VERIFY_WRITE is diabled by default in kernel06:17
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vivijimit works! :D06:22
vivijimthanks jott06:23
vivijimjott: my patch was already applied to linux-omap.. please submit your one ;)06:23
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inteliwaspis there a problem with stayin connected with ssh for a long time?06:48
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ProteousI haven't had a problem06:50
inteliwasphrm... i am trying to run bittorent through ssh but after some time the connectin is lost and i must reboot my n800 to get the internet back06:50
KotCzarnyjust a battery drain06:51
KotCzarnybecause wifi-on06:51
KotCzarny(but it's wifi related, not ssh)06:51
* inteliwasp 's n800 is pluged in06:51
KotCzarnyplugged in what?06:51
inteliwaspi set wifi not to timeout too06:52
Proteouscould be the other end dropping the connection06:52
Proteousor it could be the wireless router barfing from the number of BT connections06:53
inteliwasphow do you explain the need to reboot my n800?06:53
Proteouswhy would you want to run BT on a tablet?06:53
Proteouswhat's that06:54
inteliwasparg, tiny kb.........06:54
ProteousI'll ask google06:54
* inteliwasp really needs a bt kb...06:54
inteliwaspbtw i americ06:55
inteliwasp%  @ ,06:55
Proteousokay, what is procto06:56
inteliwaspbtw i am not useing bt on my n800, i am SSHing in to my server06:57
inteliwaspi ment to tab you name but i was peckingg at the &$€£ing small kb too fast06:58
Proteousso you have bittorrent running you your server and you are sshed into your server06:58
Proteouser, running on06:58
inteliwaspyep, tunneling the gui version of bt06:59
Proteousbut why are you tunneling bittorrent through ssh?06:59
Proteousso you are using a ssh tunnel to view the bittorrent gui?06:59
inteliwaspbc i cannot figure out how to set up vnc07:00
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inteliwaspi mean remote desktop07:01
Proteouswhat OS is the server running?07:01
inteliwaspkubuntu linux07:02
kcomehi inteliwasp07:02
inteliwasp6.061 i think...07:02
kcomeare you familiar with Konsole?07:02
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kcomedo you know if i could use ttf font in konsole?07:03
kcomeor how to install pcf fonts for konsole, thanks :)07:03
inteliwasp... um...  ok i thought i new konsole...07:03
* inteliwasp brain has allready exploded today07:04
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ProteousI'm gonna agree with KotCzarny and say it's not a ssh problem ssh isn't able to make your tablet loose it's wireless until you reboot07:07
inteliwaspProteous,  any ideas for my problem?07:07
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inteliwaspis there a way to detach a tunneled gui? like with screen?07:08
KotCzarnywith vncserver07:09
ProteousI don't have any experience with tunneled x07:09
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inteliwaspgot an install guide for kubuntu 6?07:10
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JaffaMorning, all10:11
aquatixmorning all10:12
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wom-setanta: continued on debugging the problem with host resolving in scratchbox.. interesting. when saying 'host' it resolves and 'wget' it doesn't10:16
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iDShi guys10:18
iDSi bought 1 n800 now10:18
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iDSand wanna to install tools apps games...10:18
iDShow can i do>10:18
johnxiDS, go you, find things you want, hit the "click to install" link10:19
inzwom, do /etc/resolv.conf and /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf match, and the same for nsswitch.conf?10:19
iDSok and?10:19
inzwom, both inside scratchbox, that is10:19
iDSi have C:\Download\canola2.install now10:19
iDSwhat can i do with that?10:19
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inziDS, click the link on the tablet, not on PC10:20
wom-inz: you might have someting there.. i have been only looking to /etc/resolv.conf inside scracthbox target.. testing.. :)10:20
johnxiDS, yes. :) or transfer the .install file to the tablet... and click on it in the file manager10:20
iDSummm what u mean?10:20
iDSoh i got it10:21
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iDSbut i need to have internet for install it>?10:21
iDSoh i don't have internet10:21
iDSwhat can i do now?10:21
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johnxit's pretty hard to install things on the tablet if it doesn't have internet access...10:21
iDSi am seeig these lines:  on pc10:21
iDSrepo_deb_3 = deb bora free non-free10:21
iDScatalogues = extras10:21
iDSpackage   = canola210:21
iDSname = maemo Extras10:21
iDSuri =
iDScomponents = free non-free10:22
wom-inz: thanks.. it did the trick. i only checked that /etc/resolv.conf inside target. not /scratchbox/etc/.. :D10:22
jeddy3nice, just applied a real antiglare screen-protector instead of the shipping protection film10:22
iDSreally help me please10:22
jeddy3it's THAT much better10:22
KotCzarnyids: real packages are .deb ones10:22
johnxiDS, can you get internet access on the tablet?10:22
iDSi thought i can download tools from internet anbd move them to my n80010:22
megabyte405copy the debs over usb10:22
johnxthat's really the easiest way10:22
iDSjohnx  no i have just internet on my PC10:23
iDSplease guide me10:23
KotCzarnygo there10:23
KotCzarnyand find your debs10:23
iDSonly there??10:24
KotCzarnyprobably in other places too10:24
johnxiDS, you don't have a wireless router?10:24
iDSjohnx no!10:24
iDSlook here
megabyte405or on whatever other repository you wanted to use10:25
megabyte405but yeah10:25
megabyte405that's basically it.10:25
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iDSbut is there should be a way>?10:26
johnxIt's a "Nokia Internet Tablet" ... it's made to be used with internet access10:26
iDSi can download tools from maemo and then move and install on my n80010:26
KotCzarnythen install them using terminal10:27
iDSplease don't disapoint me? :(10:27
KotCzarnydpkg -i /path/to/your/files/package.deb10:27
johnxI'll be back on later...maybe I'll be able to help you then10:27
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iDSok tnx10:27
inzBut you need root access for that10:28
KotCzarnyyes i guess, use: sudo dpkg -i /path/to/your/files/package.deb10:28
inzBut sudo doesn't allow you to do that by default10:29
KotCzarnyoh. well10:29
KotCzarnycan app-manager install packages from user dir?10:29
inzIt is actually quite painful to install applications without internet connectivity on the tablet10:29
inzKot, yes it can, but it won't install anything that isn't user/ -prefixed10:30
KotCzarnyids: how do you move the files to tablet?10:30
megabyte405KotCzarny: yes10:30
inzUnless it is in red pill mode10:30
inzManual dependency tracking is painful10:30
KotCzarnyanyway, i should get some sleep10:31
KotCzarnynight ppl10:31
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pupnikahh bundyo made a mplayer browser plug-in for tablet!10:32
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leo2007`what's chinook10:49
tank-mancode name for the os version10:51
tank-manalso warm body of air that comes down from the mountains10:51
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iDSsomeone has canola 2 .db10:57
iDSplease send me now10:58
iDSbut don't work?11:02
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trulsyou already know where to get it11:09
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trulsyou just posted a link11:09
trulsyou can get the debs just fine from there11:09
trulsor add the repository11:09
* truls doesn't know why it doesn't work for you11:10
iDSyes but the page doen't work here11:10
trulsyou posted no errormessages or reasons why it doesnt work11:10
trulsworks for me11:10
trulstry it again11:10
iDSplease send to me here11:10
* truls sends you to here11:10
iDSthis yeah by irc11:10
iDSthank u 1ooo11:10
iDSi am new user here now11:11
trulsi can tell11:11
trulsdownload from the webpage11:11
iDSoh please upload on rapidshare11:11
trulsare you for real?11:11
trulsthat's hilarious11:11
iDSupload there for me11:11
iDSplease i need it and ur help11:11
trulstell me why you can't download from the webpage?11:12
* truls isn't going to upload anything on rapidshare or send on irc11:12
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trulsthe file is readily available on web11:12
trulsand repositories11:12
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trulsi don't mind pointing you in the right direction, but don't expect people to do stupid stuff like put on rapidshare11:12
iDSplease give me a link11:13
iDSAuthorization Required11:13
iDSi just that text11:13
trulsi get no such message11:13
iDSplease upload it somewhere for me now11:13
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iDSfor god11:14
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iDSi can't dowbload it there and don't know why11:14
* truls leaves11:14
iDSi need user and pass oh wait11:15
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iDSi need user and pass?11:15
iDSplease give it to me11:16
iDSfinally can u help me?11:17
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iDSdo u remember me?11:18
unique311 not really11:18
unique311but hello11:18
iDSare u black?11:18
unique311brown, but i've been called black..11:19
iDSi wanted to buy n800 2 months later11:19
iDSand we talked in the chan11:19
iDSi bought it now11:19
unique311enjoying it..11:19
iDSi need ur help11:19
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iDSi can't download canola 2 from web11:19
iDSand don't know why?11:20
iDSmaybe site is down here11:20
iDScan u upload it for me on somewhere now?11:20
unique311do it from the application manager11:20
unique311install it from the application manager.11:20
iDSno i don't have internet for tablet now11:20
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iDSplease upload this file for me now11:21
unique311hold on11:21
unique311what browser are you using11:21
unique311that link works for me11:21
unique311in firefox11:21
iDSok thank u 100011:21
iDSi have IE 611:21
unique311install firefox11:21
unique311and then try again11:21
iDSbut if u upload it now must be faster11:21
iDSplease give it to me11:22
unique311not really11:22
iDSis it really hard for me?11:22
unique311not legal11:22
iDSfor god11:22
unique311and i think canola has a bunch of dependencies11:22
iDSsomeone help me here11:22
unique311i don't think dl only that deb is going to be enough11:23
inzDefinitely not11:23
iDSi need help11:23
inzYou need python, ecore, python-ecore etc11:23
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iDSplease understand11:23
unique311you will not be able to install that deb by itself, and if you do manage with dpkg -i11:24
unique311it will not work11:24
unique311waiit till you have you tablet and do it from the application manager11:24
iDSi don't have internet on my tablet11:24
unique311so you have to wait till you do.11:25
iDSwhy u don't want to understand it11:25
iDSi need just that free file11:25
unique311so download firefox11:25
inzYou need much more than that11:25
iDSi am very sad now11:25
unique311and then dl the file11:25
iDSand disappoint from u11:25
iDSdamn to me11:25
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unique311I get it, you one of those troll thingies...11:26
unique311very funny. haw haw haw...11:26
iDSThis server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document requested. Either you supplied the wrong credentials (e.g., bad password), or your browser doesn't understand how to supply the credentials required.11:26
iDSi am just seeing this11:26
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unique311do it from firefox11:26
iDSgive me the pass now? POSSIBLE?11:26
trulsiDS: stop bothering people, you already have several solutions to your problem, if you would listen11:27
iDSi hate firefox11:27
trulsiDS: there is no passward11:27
unique311thats a first11:27
unique311a firefox hater11:27
trulstrolls usually are11:27
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* errordeveloper doesn't like firefox either11:31
inzDoes it have too few errors?11:31
errordeveloperi consider even to switch back to the original mozilla11:31
errordeveloperinz: lol11:31
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errordeveloperbut i just find it slow, mem hungry and not really behaving the right way11:32
errordeveloperthe rendering bit is great11:33
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errordeveloperbut all the UI sucks, from my point of view11:33
inzI would like my browser to have only back button and location bar11:34
errordeveloperit could be more efficient to have some keyboard driven browser ..11:34
inzNo menu or other buttons11:34
inzI never used opera enough to learn it, but I've understood that it has pretty decent keyboard navigation11:34
errordeveloperinz: yeah, something like that11:34
inzI actually got firefox to look like that, but then they changed something and the "History" menu appeared on top of my toolbar11:35
errordeveloperyeah, but opera has LOADS of fancy buttons11:35
errordeveloperinz: hm .. in fact , i think you can remove that ...11:36
inz that's what my firefox used to look like (imagine borders around it)11:36
inz(never mind the bug shown in the image, it's fixed already)11:36
errordeveloperjust to me the problem is with the popups and all that ..11:37
inzdamn web dev's found new ways to create popups ;)11:37
errordeveloperlike the way you manipulate links .. if it could have a little command line, where each link on a page could be stored as numberred variable11:39
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errordeveloperyou could still open it in a tab11:39
errordeveloperor a new win11:39
errordeveloperbut to dowlnload would type something like11:39
inzerror, check out vimperator11:40
errordeveloperdown $14 /home/pub/inc/11:40
errordeveloperor: down $14 /tmp/11:40
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errordeveloperinz: hm ..first time heard of that ..11:40
inzerror, it's vim-like stuff for firefox11:41
errordeveloperinz: realy, thanx for that !11:42
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errordevelopersound lovely11:42
inzerror, last time I tried it, it didn't work too perfectly, but it has some niceness in it11:42
inzerror, like "numbered" links (it actually uses characters, but still)11:42
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errordeveloperoh, great11:43
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errordeveloperi'll try it out now :)11:44
inzI think it only works on fx2 for now11:44
* aquatix quite likes his customised Fx3b411:45
errordeveloperinz: is it like the devs are really into v3 ?11:45
errordeveloperhm .. i don't like the way they jump from 2.0.0.xx to 3.0....11:46
errordeveloperwhy not 2.5 at least ?11:46
inzBecause there's huge jump between 2 and 311:46
aquatixthe places thing etc11:47
aquatixand a new engine11:47
aquatixand quite a bit more11:47
aquatixi think it's justified11:47
inzAnother question is whether 2.0 was justified11:47
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aquatixthat was more because they felt like a major version was due11:48
aquatixi guess11:48
inzBut opera's running in 9 already, they must be much better!11:48
aquatixbesides, they wanted some features that are now in Fx3 in Fx2, but that wasn't feasible11:48
aquatixinz: :)11:48
aquatixand and, Netscape 9 then?11:49
inzOooh, netscape niiinnnee...11:49
inzwhen they hit 10, I will jump ship!11:49
inzOh wait...11:49
aquatixnetscape disappeared into /dev/null a short while ago11:50
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errordeveloperinz: yeah, but doesn't opera team obey sort of commercial realeas numbering rulse (similar to photoshop or such) ?11:50
inzaqua, fortunately, the last releases were quite ugly11:50
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inzerror, Opera CS!11:51
aquatixopera 9.5b is quite nice11:51
aquatixbut i like Fx3b4 better11:51
errordeveloperinz: well .. i'm not to sure ..there used to be photoshop 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 ..11:52
inzerror, and we need a stripped down opera Elements too!11:53
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inzMmeh, bought a blackberry for my SO, unfortunately their services don't work in Finland :/11:55
inzSo you can't use the buil11:56
inzt-in email nor browser11:56
aquatixblackberries are overhyped11:56
aquatixtheir software isn't all that fancy11:56
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inzauqa, yes, but there aren't that many pink smartphones11:56
aquatixthe sonyericsson m600i was in shiny white? :)11:57
* aquatix hates pink gadgets ;)11:57
aquatixthankfully, my girlfriend dislikes pink stuff too11:57
aquatixso she has some light blue phone11:58
inzaqua, I don't hate pink (wouldn't want one for myself though)11:58
* aquatix has most hardware in black/silver and some antracite12:00
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iDSi need to install all deb file12:39
iDSis it 6 levels for quetoo 2?12:39
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iDSfirefox can't read it too13:13
iDSi told u ah13:13
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iDSi really  can't download it13:14
iDStell me how can i do?13:14
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aquatix <- click the INSTALL button?13:19
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aquatixfollow the instructions?13:20
aquatixjust read...13:20
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iDScanola page can't work here?13:24
iDSi need 2 tools canm u upload them for me now?13:24
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KKKKplease listen to me13:28
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iDSit doesn't work here13:28
iDSwith none ie or firefox13:28
iDSi am registered on maemo.org13:29
iDSso please what's my problem?13:29
iDSthe page just say13:29
iDSThis server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document requested. Either you supplied the wrong credentials (e.g., bad password), or your browser doesn't understand how to supply the credentials required.13:29
iDSplease upload only two files for me now in everywhere13:30
iDS1  canola2_2.0.0~beta6-maemo2_all.deb13:30
iDS2 python2.5-runtime_0.4-15_all.deb13:31
iDSi am here about 4 hours13:31
iDSand couldn't solve my problem13:31
iDShere is for help13:31
shackanshut up, what's the problem?13:31
iDSread up13:31
shackanwell, your browser is broken13:32
shackanbecause all the links work13:32
iDSfor god13:32
iDSthey don't work here13:32
iDSplease trust me13:32
iDSi just see13:33
iDSAuthorization Required13:33
iDSThis server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document requested. Either you supplied the wrong credentials (e.g., bad password), or your browser doesn't understand how to supply the credentials required.13:33
shackanthey do work here, if you can't download them wherever you are I can't see what we can do13:33
iDSu can help me13:33
iDSwith upload these on a site13:33
iDSjust add them to a rar file and send to me13:34
iDStrust me :'''(13:34
aquatixyou need to add the repository13:34
aquatixi can send you that .install fail13:34
iDS repository  how? where?13:34
aquatixsame site13:34
iDSsend me13:34
aquatixhave you even tried?13:35
iDSabout 4 hours here13:35
aquatixon that link?13:35
aquatixtry the url i just posted13:35
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iDSok but///13:35
shackanI guess he goes through some broken firewall or something13:35
iDSyes maybe i don't know13:35
aquatixi guess13:36
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iDSplease upload these files for me13:36
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iDS[15:00:40] <iDS> 1  canola2_2.0.0~beta6-maemo2_all.deb13:36
iDS[15:01:05] <iDS> 2 python2.5-runtime_0.4-15_all.deb13:36
inzThey're not enough13:36
aquatixcan you reach this file on your nokia?
iDS.....i just bought my n800 today and don't know more for install filers...13:37
iDSno i don't have internet on n800 now  only pc13:37
aquatixiDS: the easiest way is to go with your n800's browser to that site13:37
iDSand sorry13:37
iDSjust can see this text file13:37
iDSrepo_name = maemo13:37
iDSrepo_deb = deb gregale free non-free13:37
iDSrepo_deb_3 = deb bora free non-free13:37
iDScatalogues = maemo13:37
iDSname = maemo13:37
iDSuri =
iDScomponents = free non-free13:38
iDSjust that! :(13:38
aquatixplease don't post that here13:38
aquatixyeah, you have to open it on your n80013:38
iDSok sure sorry13:38
aquatixbut it needs internet for that13:38
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inzYou really should rather find out what is broken with your web browser13:38
iDSbut if u send me these files then i can install by my pc13:38
aquatixthat too13:38
inzEveryone else can access the packages, so it must be at your end13:38
iDSyes i am very bad luck :(13:38
iDSplease can u upload and send me now?13:39
iDSjust add to rar file13:39
aquatixi don't know what dependencies it needs13:39
iDSjust send13:40
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iDSi need to test13:40
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iDSupload it on a host site like www.rapidshare.com13:40
iDSthankkkkkkkkkkkk u13:41
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iDSwhat about  python2.5-runtime_0.4-15_all.deb13:41
iDSplease do that too13:41
aquatixlooking for it13:41
inzand python-ecore, and libecore, and...13:41
iDSok :)13:41
iDSu are an angel13:42
aquatixi'll download them from my n81013:42
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iDScanola 2 didn't installed it needs many python13:45
aquatixyeah, uploading those python things13:46
iDSthank u 1000 respect dude13:46
iDSefl-core lightmediascanner hildon-imf-ecore atabake canolad..13:47
qos_aquatix, is canola2 beta 6 the latest offical release?13:48
iDSthank u all are ready now?13:48
aquatixqos_: not sure, frankly13:48
aquatixiDS: yeah13:48
iDSaquatix u are the best of the best person here13:48
aquatixheh, thanks13:48
aquatixbut it really helps to fix that firewall or gateway ;)13:48
aquatixand maybe get internet on your n80013:48
aquatixbecause then it's easy to install13:49
aquatixjust two clicks13:49
iDSfriend what about efl-core lightmediascanner hildon-imf-ecore atabake canolad......i saw them on my canola problem section here...13:49
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aquatixdon't know13:50
aquatixthey are not on my device as .deb's anymore13:50
iDSok please wait i am testing please also upload python2.5-runtime_0.4-15_all.deb tnx13:50
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iDSthank u dude 1 min plz13:52
aquatixfound that with google ;)13:52
iDS  don't work here13:53
iDSplease ur own upload if possible13:53
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aquatixok, on that same page as the other python packages13:53
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iDS1 min plz13:54
iDSabout ython2.5-runtime_0.4-15_all.deb  it said unable to install incompatible application package13:56
iDSplease all13:56
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inziDS, you need to enable red pill mode13:56
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inziDS, google will tell you how13:56
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iDSalso i can't install nothing of python and said the same up message13:57
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aquatixiDS: well, then enter the red pill mode first, like inz says13:58
iDSthe red pill mode? where is it?13:58
inz13:56 < inz> iDS, google will tell you how13:58
iDSyes will try now13:59
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iDShow can i register on  it always needs pass and user...and i am an user on maemo.org14:04
aquatixerm, i don't have to register on
inzSomething is really broken if you need user and pass there14:06
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iDSyes guys14:08
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iDSlisten i have just internet on my pc and want to download n800 apps there14:08
iDSand move to my n800 and install14:08
iDSis it an hard way?14:09
fugitivojust double click on the package and the app manager will open to install the app14:09
iDSdouble click on the package!!!  on my pc?14:10
iDSmy n800 hasn't wlan or only internet is pc14:11
wom-what is the reason for not having N800 connected to internet. It is really crippled without internet14:11
iDSi want to download n800 stuffs with my pc then move to my tablet14:11
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iDSjust that14:11
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iDSyes i feel u but14:11
iDSi can't at the moment14:12
iDSu always download these with pc or with ur tablet?14:12
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fugitivoids: no, double tap on the device14:12
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iDSfugitivo yes u first move the tools from ur pc to ur tablet device and will install them there yes?14:13
fugitivoi download with my tablet, but when i test some stuff i just transfer the package to the device and install it from there14:13
iDSoh my problem is here i can download with my pc now!14:14
fugitivoyes, move the package to the tablet, then install it from there14:14
iDSplease tell me how u can install canola 2?14:14
fugitivocanola needs a lot of dependencies, it's better to install it directly from the tablet14:15
fugitivojust go to a bar with wifi and install it from there14:16
iDSbut other way?14:17
iDSdownload it from internet with pc and now for n800?14:17
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iDSby the way guys14:21
iDSlook here14:21
iDShere is 2 files14:21
iDS1 deb and other is tar.gz14:21
iDSut needs to copy tar.gz on my sd?14:21
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errordeveloperhey , how to disable the calling app running when the camera stick is out (on the nokia 800) ?15:00
johnxit's in the preferences for the internet call app15:00
johnxmenu -> tools -> settings or something15:00
errordeveloperjohnx: cool, thnx15:01
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errordevelopermay be'd rather start the camera utility ..15:01
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johnxmaybe the camera popping out generates a d-bus event?15:02
errordeveloperi see ..this is the feature of the internet call app15:02
johnxlisten for it and run a program when it happens?15:02
errordeveloperok .. may be15:03
errordeveloperwhen i have time, i'll check if a basic shell or perl script could do :)15:03
johnxcheck out dbus-monitor15:04
errordevelopersure :)15:05
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inzerrer, IIRC there's a gconf key for that15:07
Stskeeps. Disable video chat from loading on camera coming out "gconftool-2 --set --type bool '/system/osso/af/launch-on-camera' 'false'"15:09
johnxyeah...or the click one checkbox in the app...15:10
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guardianhmm i'm curious about something15:25
guardianwhat's the point of having mouse coordinates expressed in doubles ?15:25
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johnxdoes the the hardware touchscreen do sub pixel accuracy?15:28
glassguardian: for drawing apps theres a lot of point15:28
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aquatixalso, there are mice and tablets with a higher resolution than the screen displays15:34
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guardianmakes sense15:38
guardianmakes less sense for small touchscreen devices15:38
aquatixi guess the touchscreen also has higher res than the lcd15:38
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aquatixthat's mostly the case15:38
aquatixbesides, Xomap is a partial port of iirc, so why change all that stuff?15:39
aquatixprograms/toolkits expect it15:39
aquatixmorning SDuensin15:39
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sune_hi peoples! is it possible to run old abi arm binaries on the n800 ? (is the right kernel bit set?)16:09
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johnxI can check the kernel .config to see, but a new kernel isn't that hard to compile16:10
johnxyou're in luck I guess16:11
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sune_johnx: thanks ;)16:14
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sandyanghi, good night16:37
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henriqueis there some python module to work with berkeley db on maemo (chinook)?17:42
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AStormhello :-)18:17
AStormwhere do I get XChat for OS2008? (catalog)18:17
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pupnik_one moment18:20
AStormmaemo extras?18:20
infoboti guess gronmayer is an index of maemo/ITOS repositories
pupnik_not sure it's in ther18:22
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puslingis there a way to stop the gui - or prevnt it from starting (on a n800) - killling Xomap seems to trigger a full reboot ;)18:26
AStormsorry, not with default Maemo18:27
AStormwait, you can switch X server18:28
AStorme.g. use some Debian armel18:28
X-Fade_pusling: You could disable liveguard reboots with a rd flag..18:28
AStormeven beter18:28
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puslingX-Fade_: how ? (I feel pretty clueless afther having been 20 minutes at the device ;)18:28
X-Fade_pusling: ./flasher-3.0 --help ;)18:29
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X-Fade_pusling: The flasher can also set r&d flags on the device. No need to flash a new image with it..18:30
RyanEDoes the PyMaemo include curl?  I keep getting 'libcurl' not found-type errors.  Alternatively, is there a way to do socket calls?  Also appears to be 'not found'.18:30
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puslingX-Fade_: I have set the generic rd flag with the flasher thingie. I guess I need to locate some docs on how to set different? flags ?18:31
lmouraRyanE, there's a python2.5-pycurl18:31
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RyanEit looked like that was installed in my scratchbox, but when I tried to code with it, it wasn't found.  how can I tell if it's installed?18:32
X-Fade_pusling: no-lifeguard-reset18:32
lmouraRyanE, dpkg -l | grep python2.5-pycurl18:32
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X-Fade_pusling: --set-rd-flags no-lifeguard-reset   to be exact..18:33
RyanEwell, that'd be the problem.  Not installed in my scratchbox.  duh.18:34
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puslingX-Fade_: no - --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset18:34
RyanElmoura: thanks.18:34
lmouraRyanE, no problem18:34
X-Fade_pusling: no-retu-wd and no-omap-wd can be of help too.18:35
lmouraRyanE, also make sure that the resolv.conf file is updated inside scratchbox, or pure python sockets won't work18:35
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lmouraI usually copy to both /scratchbox/etc/ and the target's /etc18:35
AStormDoes the default chat have a jabber contact list?18:36
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AStormuhm, roster18:36
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pygihey folks19:58
pygidoes anyone know is it by any chance possible to switch discount code from austrian to german webshop?19:58
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Cptnodegardpeple... do any of you know what photo viewer is shown at 1:05-> here?
Cptnodegardif its a available one i mean20:00
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konttoriIt looks good20:09
konttoriAh. the photo viewer is quiver20:09
* konttori likes canola more though20:09
jotthm the opengl es part is even more interesting :)20:10
konttoriwell... n810 has the capability. so maybe they have something that allows to use it.20:11
konttoriperhaps you should ask them?20:11
konttorithere was email at the end of the video20:11
jottyeah, might be worse to ask if they give me their powervr drivers :)20:12
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jottor it was just a software renderer..20:12
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konttoricould well be20:13
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konttorithere has been opengl es software renderer for the n810 before as well20:14
konttorithe speed in video didn't look very fast20:14
konttorinot the kind of fast you would expect from opengl stuff.20:14
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lcukCptnodegard, forget the photoviewer - they say opengles is involved20:23
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Cptnodegardlcuk: which is?20:24
lcuk3d rendering20:24
lcukthey show it on the nokia (whales swimming) which is faster than any opengl i have seen on the device20:24
lcukis it just possible they are finally enabling the pvr?20:24
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Cptnodegarddont ask me, i dont know shit :D20:25
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lcukthe software doesnt actually look all that advanced though - the nokia is not actually rendering the highres video - its just a remote control20:25
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lcukthe remote screen stuff can already be done with x11vnc and stuff and it is realtime20:25
lcuklol Cptnodegard you know enough to find the link20:26
Cptnodegardand something i saw on youtube called mpc-whatever-something20:26
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lcukexcellent reporting - you should work for the bbc ;)20:27
Cptnodegardor engadget20:27
Cptnodegard"nokia remote control remote controls nokia style"20:27
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lcukwell i use my nokia as a remote control right now - i have a little proggy on nokia for volume playback and a daemon on my pc to translate for me20:28
Cptnodegardit was something i stubled over... it controlled vista media center20:28
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lcukanyway - tea is more important - well spotted and thx for sharing20:28
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AStormheh - how do I change osso-xterm font?20:54
wom-anyone having issue with irssi,osso-xterm and n810 and finnish keyboard. :)20:54
AStormno issues here with german one20:54
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wom-a with dots and o with dots dont show correctly20:54
wom-i think irssi needs  tweaking20:55
NaviAStorm, in the settings20:55
AStormlike, diese äöüÄÖÜ20:55
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NaviTools -> Settings, then click on font settings20:55
wom-my problem is this å ä ö :)20:56
AStormno, the default encoding is utf-820:56
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lcddirssi can do the charset conversion, and so can screen20:57
AStormhow do i get rid of the bar when using the keyboard and still see keyboard state?20:57
pupnikWHEN will maemo and ITOS upgrade to gcc 4.x?20:58
AStormwom-: they're correct20:58
AStormpupnik: who cares?20:58
pupnikgcc 3.4 is broked20:58
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AStormjust build gcc 4 package yourself20:59
AStormit's debian after all20:59
pupnikgcc 4.x built programs are incompatible20:59
wom-AStorm: dont work for me :)21:00
AStormonly c++21:00
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AStormwom-: heh, just set LC_ALL correctly21:01
wom-AStorm: i have to do that. it just funny to tweak these with every new linux device :)21:02
AStormbtw, where can i get some tool to mod keyboard layout?21:02
AStormwom-: switch to UTF-8 and be done with it once and for all21:03
wom-yep, but shell that i am using is living in past21:04
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AStormwom-: it should still support it21:08
wom-you are right21:08
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wom-and now it works :)21:09
argonelso with dropbear installed, i'm trying to log in to ssh and can't.. connection closes after typing in my password. any ideas?21:10
tharveygreets - I'm investigating using the Nokia 810 platform and can't quite determine from OMAP2 specs if it has an FPU for floatingpoint - any confirmation?21:10
argonels/in to/in with21:10
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KotCzarnytharvey: vfp i believe21:11
tharveyI couldn't confirm that either - I would assume a VFP would act like an FPU as far as gcc is concerned - anyone have any details on how many MFLOPS the 810 can do?21:12
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KotCzarnyrun a benchmark?21:12
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tharveyright - has anyone here run a benchmark like that?  I don't have an 810 to run it on yet21:13
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tharveysaw no mention here of a VFP or FPU - states its an ARM11 core but not exactly which ARM11 core21:15
tharveypupnik, for sure?  that doesn't have the FPU unit21:16
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KotCzarnythat's a gcc option21:17
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pupniktharvey: you got some benchmark you want me to run?21:18
argonelwhere does the Notes application store its notes?21:18
tharveywhat's a gcc option?21:18
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tharveypupnik, ya if you could - let me see what would be easiest to build and run21:19
n800musicis there a dictionary for maemo?21:19
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n800musicenglish to other?21:20
KotCzarnyi have compiled kcxlator21:20
tharveycould anyone pastebin a dmesg output for me showing the kernel bootup on an N810?21:20
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pupnikdmesg doesn't give me boot messages21:22
KotCzarnyadd dmesg > /tmp/dmesg.log early in rc2.d21:23
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KotCzarnytharvey: i believe dsp core could be usefull21:35
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tharveyi've seen reference to things like soft-float (float emulation) being sped up by a DSP but I'm not sure how one would take advantage of that with the OMAP2 - I would think you would need a specific library21:35
KotCzarnybut still, free cycles21:36
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BrainsDid somebody say free cycles?21:38
* KotCzarny hides21:38
* Brains is reminded that he needs to look for a bt connection manager app...21:39
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kulveIt's quite painful to use the dsp efficiently21:41
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KotCzarnyno pain -- no gain21:43
kulveI believe there's not a single working useful open source dsp tasks around which probably tells something about the level of the difficulty21:44
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argoneli doubt difficulty is a barrier. more like bang for buck21:45
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KotCzarnymore like learning curve21:45
AStormtharvey: this OMAP has DSP instead21:45
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h3sp4wnDo any opensource things take advantage of the jazille things21:45
h3sp4wn(arm java accelerator) or is that just transparant21:46
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lcukfrom what i udnerstand jazelle isnt used, but i might be wrong21:47
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lcukas for using the dsp for things, there isnt much point until you have a function which needs mega power21:47
lcuk(processing power)21:47
KotCzarnylike mplayer21:48
AStorminit is too expensive?21:48
lcukbut the cpu itself is really good and can seemingly do most things efficiently - of course there are specific tasks the dsp works nicely for21:48
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AStorm(to use it as a FPU replacement)21:48
KotCzarnyfree cycles!21:48
* KotCzarny hides21:48
AStormwiting a fpu lib using dsp would be nice21:49
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lcukstorm - i would be more inclined initially to try normal fpu, then drop to naked asm shifted ints, then to the SIMD instructions then after exhausting all that i would probably get a new machine before even thinking "hmmm maybe the dsp" ;) but all that may change soon21:49
lcukthats actually a nice idea though, but beware - when the dsp is enabled the cpu slows down21:50
KotCzarnyatorm: actually (r)fft using dsp would be nice21:50
KotCzarnylcuk: only on unpatched kernel21:50
AStormyup, that "overclock"21:51
lcukand its a seperate core so its not in sync with your normal cpu21:51
AStormKotCzarny: where’s the patch?21:51
lcukKotCzarny, again, same problem - work with what the majority have and assume they wont upgrade and you will get a system which everyone can use21:51
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KotCzarnyastorm: it's a simple array replacement21:51
AStormlcuk: that’s actually good21:52
KotCzarnyi can give you my file if you want21:52
KotCzarnylcuk: if upgrade is worth it, they will follow21:52
AStormah, but itll reduce dsp power, right?21:52
KotCzarnybut you're not using dsp much21:52
lcukyes - to keep the cpu up at fullspeed you have to lower dsp and vice versa21:52
AStormblah blah21:53
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KotCzarnyastorm: do you prefer kernel or source file?21:53
lcukit would be good to get a dsp library up and running21:53
AStormdsp at fpu will be faster than cpu doing softfpu anyway21:53
lcukwhatever the speed..21:53
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lcuki thought we did have fpu hardware - if not that explains why my code with sqrt was slow ;)21:54
AStormKotCzarny: later - now i have to write a few pointless things21:54
KotCzarnylcuk: have you seen article pupnik pasted?21:54
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lcukthx kot, all that rings a bell - i thought we had hardware but forgot it wasnt enabled :)  all because of those damned 32bit opcodes (which incidentally are amazing if used properly)21:57
KotCzarnylike dsp .. (which will amazing if used properly ;)21:58
lcukit also explains why gcc still outputs branch instructions inline - if its thumb it has to21:58
lcukand also like pvr (which will be amazing if used properly ;)21:59
KotCzarnyit doesn't matter what, as long it improves overall performance21:59
Luriathere is an fpu?21:59
lcuktradeoff though isnt it - speed vs space21:59
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KotCzarnyluria: but using it right now can be detrimental21:59
Luriawhy did they do pd anywhere integer based...22:00
KotCzarnybecause most of the code is compiled for thumb22:00
KotCzarnyand switching cpu between thumb and vfp modes is slow22:00
lcukthumb code = 16bit opcodes - smaller executable.  hardware fp needs the full 32bit opcodes which take up more space22:00
KotCzarnyos2008HE (32bit)22:00
KotCzarnythat would be nice22:01
KotCzarnyany takers?22:01
* Luria has pd on the brain, and in a background process22:01
lcukKotCzarny,  it isnt so bad if you write a tight little loop which does LOTS of work in full opcode mode and then reverts back to thumb22:01
Luriaanyone need a neat s/w chromatic guitar tuner with reference tones ? :-)22:02
KotCzarnyluria: i guess there will be audience ;)22:02
KotCzarnynot me though22:02
keesjHandy to tune my iphone air guitar!22:03
lcukif you can use it to tune guitar hero stick then my son will have it off ya!22:03
lcuklol keesj i was gonna ask if its multitouch ;)22:03
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Luriawell it's multiplatform - written on osx, debugged on kubuntu, tweaked under windows :-)22:04
KotCzarnyrunning under symbian?22:04
AStormdoes vfp reduce battery life much?22:04
Luriano :-)22:04
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KotCzarnyno love for symbian? :(22:05
Luriamaemo, tho. (though they dont seem to support the correct spelling)22:05
pupnikwow, actually using the dsp as a ... dsp22:05
pupnikpardon me, i was stuck in scrollback22:06
Luriawhich is funny, cause as i'm learning /playing with pd, i'm thining, how can i use this not for music?22:06
KotCzarnyis code for mp3enc task open?22:07
keesjLuria: Meamo (Nokia Webpad) -> Mamona (Nokia Internet tablet)22:07
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fysaLuria: will that tuner work on a ukulele? ;)22:09
KotCzarnywow, another newyorker22:10
Lurianative at that.22:10
Luriafysa, yeah, its a simple chromatic tuner, i just tuned a E1 string on a bass at ~40hz...22:12
fysawhere can I find it?22:12
Luriaon my computer :-)22:12
Luriayou want a copy?22:12
Luriait was a way of learning the basics of puredata22:13
fysasend me a URL and I might check it out over the weekend22:13
KotCzarnyand subliminal messages22:13
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KotCzarnyhis tones will reprogram you22:14
Luriait's stupidly simple, but actually useful.22:14
fysaI will generate a 60Hz tone so I can nap peacefully.22:14
KotCzarnywasn't it under 8?22:15
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fysathat is the sound I play when the ladies visit22:18
KotCzarnyharley sound?22:18
fysathe 60hz is for a childhood spent without a street light outside of my bedroom window ;)22:20
fysaer, with a street light22:20
KotCzarnyah, electricity22:20
KotCzarnyin EU it's 50hz22:20
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fysainflation :)22:20
lcukand australia22:20
lcukbecause of 50hz we got higher resolution displays :)22:21
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lcukpal was much better than crappy ntsc ;)22:21
KotCzarnyit's all digital now22:21
fysa'tis true22:21
fysaI used to run my Amiga in PAL modes from time to time.22:21
lcuki ran in pal mode all the time22:21
* KotCzarny run amiga in PAL modes all the time22:21
KotCzarny(more screen estate)22:21
KotCzarnyand most games ran too fast22:22
lcukntsc looked crap ;)   (im in the uk)22:22
KotCzarnyin ntsc22:22
fysainterlacing was a wonderful thing..22:22
fysanow it only causes anguish.22:22
lcukon a 14 inch screen it was amazing, but it helped the opticians to make tonnes of money from me22:22
lcuki eventually ran on a black and white high res monitor for ages22:23
* lcuk is not interested in color22:23
KotCzarnycomposite output ruled22:23
KotCzarnyso.. undisturbed22:24
fysaI never got to try one of the wonderfully chunky (non-planar) third-party graphics cards.22:24
lcuki think think in planes22:25
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lcuki remember seeing the chunky to planar functions and thinking how inelegent they were for the amiga22:26
* lcuk drifts off on a paralax layer22:26
* KotCzarny distorts lcuk's registers22:26
fysaI think ARexx was my first true love.22:27
* KotCzarny used amos22:27
lcukarexx :) software designed to be interoperable by default22:27
KotCzarnylack of internet and docs22:27
lcuki remember the swath of documentation which was supplier with the amiga - that more than anything in a time without internet helped to focus on the system22:28
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Luriaplease dont distribute tho - it needs some polish before i set it free22:29
fysasure thing22:29
Luriashould run on pd .39 or later22:30
Luriayou *will* almost certainly need to modify the adc~ argument22:31
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Luriaprobably just removing the 3 will do22:31
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Luriahuh. 38.89 hz is odd.22:38
JaffaHmm, noBounds looks intriguing if even vaguely real.22:39
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* KotCzarny remembers burning tweeters using amos syth generator written by himself22:39
Luriaim hitting close to the resonant frequency of something here.22:41
KotCzarnyresonance is fun22:41
Luria(didnt think these monitors could do 39hz. live and learn)22:41
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KotCzarnylive and let burn22:42
Luriaever since i got this delta 1010 it's been fun.22:42
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KotCzarnytoday is pi's day22:45
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Luriayeah. just sent out a pi sms to my math peeps.22:46
JaffaSomething else is doing all the work on that noBounds stuff.\22:46
Luriahaha. because of the mix/normalization of the reference and line input along with the monitor mode on my sound card, the tuner is acting as a digital delay effect. heh.22:48
tharveyAStorm, how would my gcc compiled apps take advantage of floating point via DSP?  Is that something gcc supports for this target?22:48
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shackantharvey: no, gcc doesn't do the magic for you22:51
KotCzarnyit's more like distributed computing?22:51
KotCzarny(over 2 cores :)22:51
shackanwhat 'it'?22:51
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KotCzarnysending data set and receiving results?22:52
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tharveyso how would I perform float ops efficiently?22:52
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Luriasled p0wnage.22:53
shackanthe first thing off my head would be to say "you don't"22:53
Luriatharvey, outsourcing!22:53
AStormrwhitby: no, there's no softfpu dsp lib yet22:54
AStormor such a target22:54
tharveyok, so for all intesive purposes OMAP2 doesn't have anything like an FPU that could be utilized?22:54
lcukyes, it has hardware fpu but you need to enable 32 bit mode.22:55
tharveyARM1136JF-S has a VFP but not ARM1136J-S which is what I'm told the OMAP 2420 has22:55
lcukwould it be feasible to just create a math library using the hardware fp and see if it can be utilised22:55
Luriai think you mean "intents and purposes," though i guess the point of an fpu is [math] intensive purposes.22:55
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tharveywell, I'm trying to evaluate the N810 for use with a float intensive application22:56
KotCzarnytharvey: does -mfpu=vfp generate code incompatible with vfp-less cpu?22:56
lcuktharvey, i can tell you 100%, the n810 DOES NOT FLOAT.  keep it away from water22:56
KotCzarnytharvey: provide some code, i will benchmark it22:57
Lurialcuk, ,
Luriaits a patch :-)22:58
KotCzarnymore like mod22:58
lcukok, i will use it next time i am swimming the channel :D   these things aren't insurable against shark attack are they?22:58
KotCzarnywho cares22:58
tharveyKotCzarny, thanks - I'm looking for some sort of simple floatingpoint benchmark that is easy to compile/run now22:58
KotCzarnyshark will be after you not nokia ;)22:59
KotCzarnytharvey: anything that gcc can compile22:59
lcukjust wait until i show it full flash running in a browser - it would soon stop gnawing at my leg and take interest22:59
Luriaand then bite off your arm?23:00
KotCzarnyall 3 arms23:00
lcuklook, heres a pic of a shark who wanted to borrow the guys nokia
Luriaoh i thought thats what he meant by leg23:00
lcuksharks with nokia are like us - they are interested in thumb23:00
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Lurialand is good.23:01
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ssvbtharvey: check and look for VFP1123:08
ssvbwhat kind of floating point operations do you want to do on the tablet?23:08
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kulvethe vfp in the omap2420 doesn't seem to be very powerful, integer only optimized codecs (tremor, theora) seems to be fast as floating point versions. Or faster.23:12
ssvbkulve: that's not true, VFP is hard to optimize and gcc sometimes generates heavily suboptimal code23:13
tharveyssvb, I don't know exactly - I'm just tasked with evaluating a couple of platforms - single precision I'm sure, but I don't know more about it yet23:13
kulvessvb: well, at least the latter part of my sentence is true23:14
ssvbkulve: which one?23:14
tharveyI'm still not convinced that the 2420 even has the VFP - is it using the ARM1136JF-S core then, not the ARM1136J-S?23:14
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kulvessvb: that tremor is faster that vorbis and integer theora is faster than the floating point version23:14
ssvbtharvey: it does have VFP23:15
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kulveyeah, that's a fact23:15
lcuktharvey, if anyone would know it would be ssvb..23:15
ssvbkulve: ffvorbis is as fast as tremor in my tests, and has a very good potential for further optimizations23:15
kulvessvb: I just checked whois ssvb and stop arguing with you :)23:16
lcuklol - its not wrong to discuss things - if we did not test the boundaries we would not evolve23:16
KotCzarnyeven bad point of view can be usefull23:17
ssvbkulve: VFP just has a very high latency, it can perform single precision floating point multiplication (and accumulation) on each cycle, but if the instructions are not scheduled properly and you want to use the result immediately in the next instruction, the pipeline will stall for 8 cycles23:19
tharveyssvb, ok I'll take your word for it - so your indicating that gcc will use the VFP for float opts - you use a -mfp=vfp then?23:19
ssvbtharvey: '-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp'23:20
KotCzarnyssvb: what will happen without -mfloat-abi switch?23:21
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ssvbkulve: it all means that improperly scheduled code can perform 8x slower than optimal, it makes floating point performance heavily dependent on the compiler or the human who is writing code23:23
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tharveythanks so much for the info23:23
sc2i got an n800 and trying to boot it off mmc slot.  after cloning internal over to card tar says there were some errors any ideas?23:24
sc2using gnu tar not busybox tar23:24
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ssvbKotCzarny: I don't remember exactly, but if you miss the needed option, you will not get VFP instructions generated :)23:25
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ssvbKotCzarny: you can always make a simple test program and check assembly output for various gcc options23:27
KotCzarnyssvb:i usually just test the program as the whole..23:27
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lcukonly problem is time23:28
KotCzarnywhen compiled with different switches23:28
* lcuk might make an automatic tester23:28
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ssvbKotCzarny: actually '-mfloat-abi=softfp' is the only needed (and required) option to use VFP23:35
ssvbfrom gcc man: softfp allows the generation of floating point instructions, but still uses the soft-float calling conventions23:37
KotCzarnybut wouldn't it need to know what fpu i use?23:37
KotCzarnyor is it cpu independent?23:37
lcukgcc for target has default options knowing what you are building it for23:38
KotCzarnylcuk: depends on gcc config23:38
lcukbut when you are compiling in scratchbox targetting armel isnt that all pretty much setup23:38
KotCzarnyif it's true that whole itos was build without vfp then gcc will have vfp disabled too23:38
KotCzarny(by default)23:38
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ssvbKotCzarny: you can easily mix softfloat and vfp code (function arguments are still always passed to functions in integer ARM registers)23:48
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n800musicis jott's rotation thingy easy to install?23:49
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n800musici was always disappointed with the lack of rotation on n80023:50
KotCzarnyas simple as installing 2 debs and 1 kernel flash23:51
KotCzarnyless than 10min of work23:51
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n800musicthe second part i've never done23:51
KotCzarnyworks stable and fast23:51
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KotCzarnyn800music: it's simple23:51
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n800musicdo i have to be root?23:52
KotCzarnyof course23:52
n800musici've done that ince but i forgot how to23:52
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KotCzarnyastorm: join #kotc, nie mam zarejestrowanego nicka na freenode23:53
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