IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-03-13

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feranyone here who installed scratchbox ?00:16
* KotCzarny <--00:18
KotCzarnypupnik: couldn't dosemu use timidity as midi synth?00:20
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ferI need to move the scratchbox directory to a different disk, but it complains about not beying able to copy hardlinks... anypne knows how to move scratchbox to another location?00:26
KotCzarnywith a -p i guess00:26
johnxI thought I just rsynced it, but I can't be sure00:27
ferI'm confused about this...00:27
KotCzarnyfer, just reinstall it00:27
ferit's supposed to be a "closed" system.. so, should not have absolute references..00:27
ferreinstalling is what you do in M$ land...00:28
KotCzarnyyes, but may be quicker in your case00:28
KotCzarnyhow do you copy it?00:28
johnxreinstalling is what you do when you're dealing with sketchy software you don't want to spend the time to troubleshoot00:28
KotCzarny^ /me agrees00:29
johnxI thought I just used rsync -av00:29
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KotCzarnyyou can try cp -a00:30
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ferI've just installed it.. and now I'm out of disk space in this partition...00:31
KotCzarnyjohnx: wanna see my ncurses player?00:31
ferthe problem is that downloading all that stuff is damn slow...00:32
KotCzarnyfer: i believe it can be cached00:32
johnxncurses player?00:33
johnxa music player?00:33
KotCzarnycan work with videos/youtube too, but then running it over ssh is recommended00:33
KotCzarnyhandles .m3u playlists and http:// streams as well00:36
KotCzarny(so can be used as a internet radio too)00:36
johnxI'm pretty good for right now. thanks though.00:36
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pupnikKotCzarny: not for the general case01:52
pupnikthe yamaha fm synthesizers are controllable in a fine-grained fashion01:52
pupnikthus as far as I can tell, no fixed set of sounds would ever suffice to simulate them01:53
pupnikhowever, the vast majority of games use the same sound parameters01:53
pupnikto resynthesize them for every note is not strictly necessary01:54
KotCzarnyjit-synth ?01:54
pupnikone could for example, 'cache' the sound generated by a particular set of paramaters for a fmopl synth to a wavetable01:54
pupnikor rather pcm sample01:54
pupnikignoring factors like pitch and perhaps some other parameters that would be better implemented later01:54
pupniklike envelopes01:55
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pupnikbut yes your suggestion is exactly what i'm thinking about01:55
KotCzarnyhuh, i can't get myself to sit and package some software01:55
KotCzarnylaziness at it's finest01:56
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pupnikunfortunately i'm exactly the same.  the real focused work i do in a day might average to 40 minutes01:57
pupnikbut uae4all was a huge help to me in understand where the abstraction needs to happen01:57
pupnikthere are many similarities in other gp2x games -01:58
pupnikbut you did get lucky with uae4all01:59
KotCzarnymy google magic is strong01:59
pupnikthat minimal lib is great01:59
ds3is there a trick to trying out dosbox on the N8x0?02:00
pupnikit's not much work to make a deb out of it02:00
pupnikds3 i'm the guy to ask02:00
KotCzarnypupnik: what are the chances of fallout being playable?02:01
ds3pupnik: I tried it a few times and each time I had to reboot to fix everything - xvkbd doesn't get the right keys into it (just trying to do a basic 'dir')... is there something special I need to do?02:01
pupniki have the .tar.gz here KotCzarny - haven't had time to try it02:02
pupnikds3 xkbd is sadly broken02:02
KotCzarnyxkbd != xvkbd02:02
KotCzarnyds3: xvkbd is another app02:03
KotCzarnynot hildonized yet afaik02:03
ds3oh... I got it from pupnik site so I think I have the right thing02:03
pupnikds3 i just think a computer emulator should be played with a bluetooth keyboard02:03
ds3pupnik: yeah, if I don't things get very slow and batteries get sucked down rapidly02:03
pupnikwha?? please tell more02:03
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ds3if you are interested, I can try it and give you specific reports tonight (at work now, can't play too much)02:04
pupnikok i'll be around for a couple of hours02:04
ds3it was bad enough I explicitly uninstalled it so I don't accidentally start it02:04
pupnikor post to internettablettalk.com02:04
ds3okay, I'll try to gather details tonight - anything specific you want me to gather?02:05
pupnikjust describe what annoys you pls02:05
ds3(my assumption is the code is bad enough that it isn't ready for general usage)02:05
ds3gotcha - will do that!02:05
pupnikthe xkbd thing just sucks donkeys02:05
ds3I kind of like how small it is compared to the standard OSK02:06
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pupnikyeah osemutech did the layout - good work02:06
KotCzarnyds3: you probably can mod osk02:06
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ds3KotCzarny: know where to get started?02:06
KotCzarnynope, i have only seen someone mentioning it02:07
pupnikbut dosbox needs a real genius to run well on the tablets ds302:07
ds3I've tackled early dosemu... how hard can this be ;)02:07
pupnikyeah i remember dosemu in the 90s02:08
pupnikbrowse the source... gain respect for the guys who wrote it02:08
pupniki can't freakin understand 0.001 percent of what it's doing02:08
pupnikand neither can you02:08
pupnikso that's what i mean.02:08
ds3the hardest part of that is finding a block of time to do that02:09
ds3I really want to get some kind of working printing first02:09
pupnikthere are printing patches02:09
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ds3from the browser?02:10
pupnikfrom dosbox02:10
ds3oh, I mean printing in general02:10
pupnikno idea02:10
ds3got PS installed, got my USB-serial thing working. just need a few hours to sit down and get it talking to my hand held printer02:10
infobotds3 meant: got GS installed, got my USB-serial thing working. just need a few hours to sit down and get it talking to my hand held printer02:11
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*** pdz has quit IRC02:17 I have an SD card that throws I/O errors in my N800 and Zaurus C1000 but is just fine in my crappy USB card reader :/02:20
KotCzarnywhat card?02:21
johnxin the card reader right's some PQI thing02:21
KotCzarnygood to know02:21
KotCzarnysdhc? capacity?02:21
johnx2GB, older02:22
johnxit works for long periods of time, I even did most of my Debian testing on it02:22
johnxthen it gets I/O errors unzipping a file02:22
KotCzarnymaybe it's too slow02:22
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johnxno, seriously, I don't understand...02:23
KotCzarnydon't mind me02:23
KotCzarnyi'm just throwing random thoughts02:24
johnxah, ok02:24
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johnxwell it's actually writing at 3MB/s sustained in my USB card reader02:24
johnxI just wrote a file full of zeros to all of the free space with no errors just to make sure it's not really a problem with the card02:25
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johnxno problem of course...I'm half-tempted to send this in to someone who hacks on SD support in ARM-Linux02:25
johnxI imagine that's the difference between a USB card reader and Linux SD controller support: access to more cards for testing02:26
magicrobotmonkeyhas anyone tried playing the newly freed videos from the bbc's iplayer on maemo?02:26
johnxnope. Are they still UK only?02:26
magicrobotmonkeyim not sure02:26
magicrobotmonkeyjust saw this though:02:26
johnxtop line: *Please note. This will only work if you're in the UK. *02:27
magicrobotmonkeyoh heh02:27
magicrobotmonkeyi dont read italics...02:27
KotCzarnyfind some uk based open proxy?02:27
magicrobotmonkeyyea i think thats what the windows users have been doing02:28
johnxI don't really care quite enough, yet02:28
magicrobotmonkeyyea me neither02:28
magicrobotmonkeyive tried hulu, and it seems to just crash microb02:28
shackandoes hulu work outside of the US ?02:30
magicrobotmonkeyi dunno02:30
johnxI think it doesn't, or at least they'd like it not to02:30
johnxfull card info, for the record: "pqi Hi-Speed 60 2GB"02:30
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KotCzarnyhe he he02:44
KotCzarnyit's funny how some peoples guesses miss the reality02:44
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johnxthat picture sure made it look ugly though :D02:45
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KotCzarny"Anyone hazard a guess what the transparent vertical plastic strip on the left hand side is (my guess: a touch sensitive slide control) Or it s a slot for something? The pictures aren't clear enough."02:46
johnxit's really funny, to see texrat's comments with 20/20 hindsight... :D02:48
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KotCzarny"Horrible design.02:49
KotCzarnyNo sir, I don't like it. I don't like it at all."02:49
pupnikWell KotCzarny i'm releasing uae if you aint doin nothin with it.02:49
KotCzarnypupnik: go ahead02:49
pupnikCause it does play em good.02:50
KotCzarnyyou can credit me as a google magician in the credits02:50
johnxKotCzarny, well, there's a lot not to like about it: one minisd slot, rather lame gps, same lame camera, a *worse* dpad02:50
KotCzarnyand if you use my hacks you can metion them too02:50
pupnikUh, the credits is all you.  what nick do you want to be credited with?02:50
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KotCzarnyof course02:50
pupnikI'll just do installer02:50
KotCzarnyjohnx: even worse than n800's? o.O02:51
johnxthat's what I hear02:51
johnxthe N800's are worse than the 770s02:51
KotCzarnypressing ne,nw etc is a pain02:51
johnxthe (potential) N900 will have to have one horrible dpad to keep up the trend02:51
johnxmaybe it will only have 3 directions or something02:52
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Naviwoo, one dimensional dpad02:53
NaviThat's what I'm hoping for02:53
Navitwo axis dpads are too complicated for the average consumer02:54
johnxwell a scroll wheel would be pretty nice actually02:54
NaviI could go for a trackball02:54
KotCzarnyand a left/right 'mouse' buttons02:54
lcddthat's crazy talk02:54
KotCzarnynavi: it's too small to have convenient trackball02:55
johnxthe little "scroll nubbin" thing on the apple mighty mouse would be really nice but they're kinda fragile02:55
KotCzarnysamsung newest toy have 'optical' joystick02:55
NaviKotCzarny, the Blackberry Pearl does it well.02:55
KotCzarnyless stress on the fingers02:55
Navijohnx, that's just a mini trackball :P02:56
johnxso then I agree with you. :D02:57
johnxbut it's pretty unreliable and required frequent cleaning02:57
johnxmaybe they improved it in later versions02:57
KotCzarnyyeah, trackablls get dirty :/02:58
johnxand this one was kind of rubbery02:58
NaviI like them anyway :P02:58
johnxand the mouse was hard to disassemble without breaking02:58
KotCzarnybut optical trackball would rock02:58
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KotCzarny(unless you have your fingerprints removed)02:58
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KotCzarnybut then you're not the one to use electronic toys ;)02:59
KotCzarnyoff-topic, osk could be nice if it was more flexible (ie. configurable)03:00
KotCzarnyright now it resizes other window everytime03:00
KotCzarnyit should detect if entered text is in the bottom or upper part of the screen and just move accordingly03:00
KotCzarnyhovering on top03:01
KotCzarnyand some hot-button to slide it in/out would be great03:01
lcddsufficiently transparent overlaid keyboard could be nice03:01
KotCzarnylcdd: i agree03:01
KotCzarnyi had that idea too03:02
KotCzarnybut it would eat cpu03:02
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ds3or just have an off screen keyboard, like one of those laser projected ones integrated onto it03:03
KotCzarnymind reading keyboard03:04
Navithose suck03:04
KotCzarny'hey, stop thinking so loud!'03:04
Navifastest person so far can only go 1 cps03:04
ds3"sorry officier, I was using my hands free keyboard" ;)03:04
KotCzarnyand eyes free display ?03:05
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KotCzarny Originally Posted by witznitz  View Post03:06
KotCzarny>As to GPS, if it would work as badly as it does on N95, forget about it. 5 minutes for getting the initial fix, and you are not allowed to move.03:06
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KotCzarnyGet the new 12. software update and your GPS worries are greatly improved.03:06
KotCzarnyso it's fixable03:06
KotCzarnya little03:06
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KotCzarnythat would be nice03:07
johnxit really would03:08
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johnxI think it will be a few years yet until corporations actually get handhelds "right"03:09
KotCzarnyor at least this one03:09
KotCzarnymore buttons, more, more!03:09
KotCzarnythey're cheap to add03:09
KotCzarnyand hw is already there03:10
johnxthat's pretty nice. I want a zaurus cxx00 d-pad though03:10
KotCzarnyunless right now they use gpio pins03:10
ds3think it is done via the touchscreen input chip, IIRC03:13
KotCzarnyds3: hum03:13
KotCzarnyds3: do you know if anyone hacked it to add more buttons?03:13
KotCzarnyor at least looked at this possibility?03:14
KotCzarnyThe new v12 firmware for the N95 "fixed" the GPS-lock problem by adding in Assisted-GPS functions. I get a lock on my N95 now in about 15 seconds or less, EVEN INDOORS.03:14
KotCzarnyhehe, 15s03:15
KotCzarnystill too much03:15
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ds3KotCzarny: donno of anyone03:16
KotCzarnymaybe i should hack xvkbd03:16
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KotCzarnycan osk be disabled entirely?03:51
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Naviyou can hit shift+space and turn it to n810 mode03:53
KotCzarnyn800 here03:53
NaviWell, yeah03:53
Navisame here03:53
Navibut I do it when I use a keyboard with the N80003:53
Naviturns off the thumb board and osk03:53
KotCzarnydidn't worked03:54
ds3Oh so that's what happened03:54
ds3shift-space is significant on the bt kb?03:54
NaviKotCzarny, did you do it when the osk is up?03:55
* Navi shrugs03:55
KotCzarnyhow can i input keys otherwise03:55
KotCzarnyno external keyboard available03:56
Navi <- I wish they made one of these for the N80004:02
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NaviI've lost so many expensive pens >_>04:03
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KotCzarnyinteresting discovery04:23
KotCzarnybuilt in osk has configurable toolbar04:23
KotCzarnyso one can add alt probably04:23
KotCzarnyor maybe not04:24
KotCzarnyxkbd doesn't send ctrl/alt alone04:24
KotCzarnybut may be entered by hand04:25
KotCzarnyi guess04:25
KotCzarnyor not04:25
KotCzarnyosk source is closed?04:26
johnxsounds likely04:29
* johnx tries to remember04:29
NaviI think I heard it was04:29
johnxpart of the hildon input manager stuff got opened but the keyboard might still be closed04:29
NaviHow do I add alt into the toolbar for xterm?04:29
KotCzarnyand xkbd ignores -geometry, hum04:29
johnxKotCzarny, that's probably the window manager messing with you04:30
johnxit's pretty hard to get around matchbox...04:31
johnxjust a guess...maybe you could make the window unmanaged?04:31
KotCzarnyi will dump it one day04:31
* johnx actually likes matchbox for handhelds...04:31
KotCzarnyit has.. issues04:32
johnxsuch as?04:32
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johnxit succeeds very well at keeping things inside the screen even when they try to do dumb things04:32
KotCzarny'i know better than you, i'll ignore your requests'04:33
KotCzarnythis kind of philosophy04:33
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johnxto combat apps that say "I know better than you, I'll display important buttons outside the screen"04:33
KotCzarnyit also prevents doing usefull things04:33
johnxthe super-modal dialogs annoy me sometimes, but that can be overridden04:34
KotCzarnyslide in/out would be as simple as moving the window04:34
johnxsomehow matchbox keyboard gets around it and its source is open04:34
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johnxah, moving the window? so part is off the screen?04:35
KotCzarnysimple, yet effective04:35
KotCzarnyand easy on cpu04:35
johnxunless you need to get to the top part04:35
KotCzarnytop part?04:35
johnxof the window, that gets scrolled off the screen?04:35
KotCzarnyno no04:35
KotCzarnyit could be still visible04:36
KotCzarnyjust as much as to show 'unslide'04:36
KotCzarnywhich will move it back04:36
johnxright, so the top part of the window is off the screen while you're using the keyboard?04:37
KotCzarnyerm, no, that was just an idea04:37
KotCzarnyof what could be done04:37
johnxI know04:37
KotCzarnyif wm wasn't so restrictive04:37
NaviHow do I get osso-xterm to send alt+<key> like the ctrl shortcut does?04:37
johnxI have no idea04:38
KotCzarnynavi: i've looked into it, and the only way is to recompile it04:38
KotCzarnybecause it doesn't allow it to be 'stuck'04:38
KotCzarny(unstucks after pressing)04:38
johnxKotCzarny, I guess that would kind of make is annoying when apps break badly when they are forced to draw a window that's only ~200 pixels high04:38
KotCzarnyjohnx: that too04:38
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KotCzarnythe area on the right could be use for vkbd anyway04:39
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KotCzarnyso it's not a big loss04:39
johnxBefore I would replace matchbox I'd have to find a way to force most apps to start maximized04:39
johnxdevilspie might be able to?04:40
KotCzarny.Xresources ?04:40
johnxor a custom launch script04:40
johnxKotCzarny, aaah...with geometry?04:40
KotCzarnyfor example04:40
johnxthat's an interesting idea04:40
KotCzarnybut i guess user's xresources aren't read/updated04:41
KotCzarnyor are they?04:41
johnxI have no idea. you're the one that suggested it :P04:42
KotCzarnyxkbd has issues too04:42
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KotCzarnybut rocks over osk04:51
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KotCzarnyi've got an idea how to implement right mouse button04:58
KotCzarnyanyone interested? :>04:58
johnxlibgtkstylus from debian with tap-and-hold?04:59
johnxhold down a modifier key and tap?04:59
KotCzarnyand more convenient04:59
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johnxok, shoot04:59
KotCzarnyadding button for xkbd that will remap buttons 0 and 2 ;)05:00
johnxaaah, xmonobut05:00
KotCzarnyxmodmap can do it05:00
KotCzarnyso can xbkd05:00
johnxxmonobut could live in the statusbar though05:00
KotCzarnyeven minimizez xkbd shows 2 keys05:01
KotCzarnyfirst one is unminimize05:01
KotCzarnysecond will be 'mb swap'05:01
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KotCzarnyso it will take minimal space on the screen05:01
KotCzarnyand work wonders05:01
johnxsure, go for it. when it was called xmonobut it was kind of annoying though05:01
KotCzarny2 modes would be convenient05:02
KotCzarnywith and without timeout05:02
KotCzarnyor even better 'one-click' or 'sticky'05:02
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johnxone click would be nice05:03
KotCzarnybut then xkbd would need to catch all clicks05:03
KotCzarnyjohnx: in ja2? naaaaah05:03
johnxmy biggest argument against xmonobut was the work-flow for right click to bring up a property menu goes like: click swap -> right click -> click swap -> click entry05:03
KotCzarnylet's hack then05:04
johnxsorry, got to get to eat some food and get to work in a bit :/ plus I never use right click :)05:04
KotCzarnygames use it05:05
KotCzarnyquite often05:05
johnxa note: clicks might count as x events...maybe you could use the same thing x screensaver does to see how long it's been since the last event...05:05
johnxplus, I'm poking at maemo on debian/zaurus right now :)05:05
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johnxsapwood doesn't seem to work right on an armv5te...does that even make sense?05:07
KotCzarnytry without optimization?05:08
johnxyeah, I'll have to see what how it was built :/05:08
johnxlots of: ** (sapwood-server:2021): WARNING **: unknown opcode: 005:08
KotCzarny.te mean 'without vfp' ?05:09
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johnxhmm...I don't see anything suspicious in the Makefiles or debian/rules...05:21
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KotCzarnymonobut added to xkbd06:00
KotCzarnynow, let's add some timout06:00
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KotCzarnycan i xselectinput from display/win AND display/* ?06:05
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ds3Pupnik - seems you have updated it since i last tried dosbox; this one behaves a lot better06:11
ds3and different, it puts up a keyboard on the side; the old version I install did not do that06:11
pupnikkeybd still has problems06:13
pupnikbut i try to make it better06:13
ds3it is a ton better06:14
KotCzarnypupnik, wanna try my monobutton addition to xkbd ?06:14
pupniki do not understnad06:14
KotCzarnyability to use tap as a right click06:14
pupnikxkbd has problems with shift key and some other keys in os200806:14
ds3spoke too soon, xkbd stopped responding06:15
pupnikno really i think xkbd sucks and everyone should use bluetooth keyhboards06:15
pupnikand i think nokia fucking sucks06:15
ds3further update... all input has stopped06:15
pupnikfor making the god damn keyboard gtk/hildon only06:15
ds3bluetooth keyboard, hard buttons, on screen keyboard06:16
KotCzarnybetter than apple, i guess06:16
ds3emulated mouse pointer seems to be the only thing working06:16
pupnikno mouse is impossible in dosbox too06:17
pupnikin the general sense06:17
KotCzarnyimpossible is a bad work06:17
KotCzarnytricky is better06:17
ds3dosboxbin seems to be spinning on something06:17
pupnikthere is no absolute mouse position in dos, KotCzarny06:17
pupnikyou know that06:17
KotCzarnypupnik: hack, hack, hack06:18
KotCzarnyuntill it works06:18
KotCzarnystill, even with bt keyboard, how do you right click in ja2?06:18
ds3so back to reporting problems - 1. Lost of all keyboard input; 2. Lost of ability to return to it as it is not in the window manager list but it is still running per top06:18
pupnikacknowledged ds306:19
ds3pupnik: any ideas? :)06:20
pupnikthat is status quo06:20
ds3or actually anything you want me to gather before I kill -9 it?06:20
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ds3okay bye bye dosboxbin06:22
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pupnikno thanks for testing06:25
pupnikthose are just known limitations06:25
ds3'k cool06:25
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ds3be nice to be able to run scorch earth on it but I can do with out ;)06:26
pupnikyou can run pre-90s games if you have a bt kbd06:26
ds3but having to remember to kill -9 it or the battery goes flat is kind of a bummer06:27
ds3i wish they release a final version of gvm or announce that they will not so I can start looking at pose06:28
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kulvejohnx: in armv5te the y is for thumb and e is for edsp, iirc. But I don't think there are any armv5 cpus around with vfp support. Not many at at least.06:37
pupnikno kust click on close app ds306:40
pupnikon the little x06:40
pupnikthat closes dosbox06:40
pupnikor type 'exit'06:40
KotCzarnyCopyright: (c) 2004 Nokia Oyj06:42
KotCzarnyConfidential. You are not free to do anything with this package,06:42
KotCzarnyunless you have a permission from Nokia Oyj.06:42
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KotCzarnyhildon-base-lib-dev disappeared in os2008?06:49
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ds3pupnik: that does not work for me cuz I loose all access to it other then by ps/kill07:01
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pupnikds3: you should always be able to kill dosbox with click on "X" in upper right07:03
pupnikthis does not work?07:03
KotCzarnyif app is not hildonized it doesn't always kill app07:03
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ds3pupnik: no, you missed something... I loose the entire window. there is nothing to click on!07:12
ds3sequence - start dosbox, maximize it, look around, loose ability to do any input, hit the home button to force stuff; select home from list. poof no way to get back to dosbox07:12
pupnikyou minimised it ds307:13
ds3it no longer shows up on the list07:13
pupnikoh it never shows up on the list07:13
pupnikthat list sux07:13
ds3I loose complete control of the app. Only recovery is via a shell and kill -9 it07:13
KotCzarny'hildonize me'07:13
pupnikyah i tried to make it appear in the list and that broke07:14
pupnikso i was like fuck that07:14
ds3thought that list was a normal window manager list of apps?07:14
KotCzarnyds3: yeah, 'normal'07:14
KotCzarnythat depends what you define as 'normal'07:14
ds3normal as in it would show up if I was running twm :P07:14
pupnikwell it's part of the maemo guys07:15
pupnikand nthe nokia guys07:15
pupnikbeing nazi architects07:15
pupnikYuu VILL do it OUAH way!!07:15
pupnikinstead of just registereing x windows in the list07:15
* KotCzarny is having dejavi07:15
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pupnikyeah 1939, poland07:15
KotCzarny2008, few hundreds lines before07:16
ds3hmmm if that is the case... wonder if someone could write a hybrid app that shows the output of something like xlsclients07:16
KotCzarnyds3: it just needs dosbox.desktop file07:16
pupniksorry ds3, it's not hard to make it appear in task list07:16
KotCzarnyand proper x env variables set07:17
ds3but adding that functionality to the cpu applet might be useful though07:17
* KotCzarny is trying status-bar-clock applet07:18
KotCzarnyand libs/headers are missing.07:18
KotCzarnyand nowhere to be found for 200807:18
KotCzarnyonly 200707:18
ds3the cpuload applet's clock feature is more then sufficient07:19
ds3though I do wish it would update when the screen is locked07:20
KotCzarnymaybe dropping whole hildon idea wouldn't be so bad07:20
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KotCzarnyi found a 100% way to break xkbd07:29
KotCzarnydon't use stylus but finger to tap07:30
KotCzarnyor not07:30
KotCzarnyit's not that07:30
KotCzarnyit's because it's the only app07:30
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KotCzarnyproblem with xkbd is that it doesnt' use keypress/release properly07:46
KotCzarnysticky keys should generat only kp/kr at once, not both07:47
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* truls_ prefers xkcd07:54
KotCzarnydoes it generate keysyms?07:55
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trulsi'd hope not :)07:55
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jones-Hi all. Is Gazpacho available for Maemo 4?10:49
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jones-I tried to apt-get install it inside scratchbox, but it couldn't find it.10:50
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johnxjones-, did you check on ?10:58
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jones-johnx: checking, thanks.11:01
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jones-johnx: it says it's not there.11:03
johnxguess not then, it's usually worth checking there though11:04
jones-johnx: would you say it means it's not supported or simply it's not been packaged?11:04
johnxI have no idea11:05 just covers repositories11:05
jones-Ok, I'll hang around in case somebody knows.11:05
johnxit's possible it's packaged but not in a repo, or that it's compileable but not packaged11:05
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Tama^2is openssh package in the repo broken?11:20
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Tama^2I cannot update, it complains about a missing dependency11:20
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johnxwhat dep is it missing?11:28
johnxI smell conflicint repositories11:29
infobotjohnx meant: I smell conflicting repositories11:29
johnxhmm...let me check though11:29
* johnx apt-get upgrade s11:29
johnx"works for me" (tm)11:30
Tama^2thanks for checking11:35
johnxtry apt-cache policy openssh-server11:36
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Tama^2  Installed: 1:4.3p2-911:37
Tama^2  Candidate: 1:4.3p2-911:37
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Tama^2the package mgr wants to update it >.<11:38
johnxwhat does apt-get upgrade want to do?11:39
johnxcould the app mgr actually have different version sorting than apt?11:39
Tama^2 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.11:40
Tama^2s/weird/b0rken ;)/11:41
johnxinteresting, I'm on openssh 4.7p1-2.maemo111:41
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* Tama^2 blushes11:42
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Tama^2Nokia-N800-51-3:~# apt-cache policy openssh-server11:43
Tama^2  Installed: 1:4.6p1-5.maemo311:43
Tama^2  Candidate: 1:4.7p1-2.maemo111:43
Tama^2  Version table:11:43
Tama^2     1:4.7p1-2.maemo1 011:43
Tama^2        500 chinook/free Packages11:43
Tama^2 *** 1:4.6p1-5.maemo3 011:43
Tama^2        500 chinook/free Packages11:43
Tama^2        500 chinook/free Packages11:43
Tama^2        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status11:43
Tama^2     1:4.6p1-5.maemo2 011:43
Tama^2        500 chinook/free Packages11:43
Tama^2     1:4.6p1-5.maemo1 011:44
Tama^2        500 chinook/free Packages11:44
Tama^2(before I logged on the other arm based toy I have here ;) )11:44
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johnxaaah...what is it?11:46
johnxrunning debian?11:46
Tama^2yes :)11:46
Tama^2Linux nslug 2.6.18-6-ixp4xx #1 Tue Feb 12 00:57:53 UTC 2008 armv5tel11:47
johnxeasy to mistake. You should hand out hostnames via dhcp :)11:47
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JsoetA couple quick questions... What's the preferred (re: simplest) method for developing network applications? Is it sdl_net? Second, assuming it is, what is the pkg to call for it using pkg-config? Is it installed by default?11:47
Tama^2I usually do, but I did not fix the N800 scripts to request an hostname after the last reflash11:47
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inzJoset, it depends pretty much on what you want to do and what UI framework your application uses11:49
Tama^2Jsoet: on ITOS you should use libconic (I think) to bring the network up/down and get a connection11:49
Jsoetyeah, I know to use libconic to get a connection, but for the actual network communication, like you still need to use sockets and stuff like that don't you?11:51
JsoetAnd I'll be using hildon/gtk+ for my UI11:52
inzThen you don't want to use SDL_net11:52
inzThere are some socket abstraction libraries for glib11:53
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JsoetOh, the stuff like this? I found some stuff about that but I couldn't really find any examples so I thought the sdl stuff would be easier... do you know of any examples or tutorials or stuff for it? Or do you think it'd be easier to use it anyway?11:54
inzThe IO Channels surely are nice, but by themselves they're not enough11:55
JsoetSo what else would I have to use? Like the sys/socket.h stuff to actually get a socket? Or is there something else?11:56
inzGNet is at least one option (
inzI haven't actually done any proper network programming (just http requests), so I don't really know anything about them11:57
inzBut surely you can also use socket() etc calls and create a iochannel for the socket to listen for it11:57
Jsoethm, is that gnet included in maemo do you know?11:57
Jsoethmm, how did you just do http requests and stuff like that though? Did you use this gnet library or did you use the socket() calls? Really, I'm just doing a little school project and that's all I really need is just http requests.11:59
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inzFor http requests you probably want to use a http library instead of generic socket library11:59
inzMaemo includes curl11:59
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inzI've used libsoup mostly because it is glib based12:00
Jsoetah, seriously? Thank you, that is so useful12:00
Jsoetis libsoup included with maemo?12:01
inzNope :(12:01
inzI had to package it separately12:02
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inzWhat makes it even less fun, is that maemo includes openssl but libsoup use gnutls12:02
Jsoetahh... I think I'll just use libcurl then, that sounds like a lot of work12:03
inzWell, I have the packages in my repository and they're also nowadays in extras-devel12:04
Jsoethmm, well, I dunno, I'll look into both of them I guess and see... anyway, thanks a lot for your help in pointing me in the right direction at least, that's a lot of help12:05
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inzHappy hacking!12:08
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webustanyhi there. I should soon get my hands on a N810, and of course I'd like to develop on it. I'm running a 64 bits system, and saw there's some effort to port scratchbox to x86_64. Is it woth the try, or is the vmware-maemo a better option ?12:52
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b0unc3good morning13:21
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b0unc3why I cannot see the comments for my app on ?13:24
X-Fadeb0unc3: Which app?13:24
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X-Fadeb0unc3: There are no comments?13:26
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b0unc3X-Fade: 2 votes - 50 downloads13:27
X-FadeYeah, those are just votes..13:27
b0unc3votes can be without comments ??13:27
X-FadeEven anonymous..13:27
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b0unc3oh ok...13:33
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SpakmanI'm hosting my own copy of wget for dependency reasons. However, when trying to install my package I'm told that wget is a missing dependency (wget is available to install individually). Any ideas how to debug this? My other dependencies are working fine.13:34
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qgilhi there, I want to start podcasting about maemo stuff. Any recommended/preferred service? Free of cost, popular, open source friendly...13:50
X-Fadeqgil: I can setup something at if you would like? That won't cost anything.13:52
qgilhi X-Fade, to tell you the truth I have no preferences - whatever is seen as good and useful by the maemo community13:54
X-Fadeqgil: Well, anyone can ;)13:54
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qgilX-Fade: sure, the question is not about "can" but about "where".13:55
qgil(checking this
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X-Fadeqgil: At least Nokia has some arrangement with them already ;)
qgilalright then: is the current candidate for hosting a maemo podcast - anyone has a better candidate?13:57
qgillinks with Nokia are not a decision criteria - open source friendlyness are a stronger factor (at least for me)  :)13:58
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JaffaMorning, all14:03
qgilX-Fade: if you want to setup the maemo podcast that would be great. In the meantime I'm editing the audio file of Ari Jaaksi's talk yesterday at OSiM USA14:05
X-Fadeqgil: Sure, what name do you want to give it?14:06
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X-FadeJaffa: Do you still want to test the maemo autobuilder?14:06
qgilwhat name do _you_ want to give it?14:06
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X-Fadeqgil: Well, that depends on what the podcast will be about. How wide will the topic reach?14:08
X-Fadeqgil: Maemo community podcast?14:08
qgilX-Fade: it's about maemo, software, open source, community, hacks............14:10
X-Fadeqgil: Ok, so not only maemo then? Something more Open Source related?14:10
qgilX-Fade: it's not about Nokia, tablets (hardware), non-free software (although we can discuss those things as well, just not as main topics)14:11
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qgilshould be a place where any maemo developer / hacker / enthusiast could upload / aggregate their stuff - I mean is community centric not Nokia centric14:12
qgilNokia employees just like me might post as well, but that's it, just like anybody else14:12
qgildo you think the idea makes sense?14:12
qgilwe discussed it somewhere in Jaiku some weeks ago (can't find the link now)14:13
X-FadeI'll look it up..14:13
qgilstarting with a presentation of Ari Jaaksi is not the most community-centric start we could have but well, better than nothing imho14:13
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X-Fadeqgil: Hmm I can't find it in your jaiky comments either..14:15
X-FadeBut I have seen them before..14:16
qgilwhy not14:19
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X-FadeI'm sorry guys. The database for bugzilla is down, we are working on it.14:20
qgil(it's been soooooo long since I last played with Audacity)14:20
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MoRpHeUzqgil: are you coming to bossa conference ?14:49
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qgilMoRpHeUz: sadly not I had to go to OSiM USA and that is all the no-family-responsibilities time I could get this month  :)14:55
MoRpHeUzqgil: hehe, maybe a visit some time in the future ;-)14:55
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MoRpHeUzabout the podcast, I think it's better to have more and smaller podcast than a big one... =)14:58
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qgilX-Fade: I got the audio file. Now... letçs talk about practicalities15:23
qgilI guess the right thing is to export it to ogg & mp315:24
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X-Fadeqgil: I made an account. Now I see they only support mp3, m4a, mp4, 3gp, mpeg4, mpeg, mpg4, m4v, mov, wma, and wmv15:25
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qgilX-Fade: you see I had a reason to mention open source friendliness  ;)15:26
johnxI don't think there are many people who can play mp3 but not ogg...15:26
X-Fadejohnx: Well, every tablet user by default?15:27
johnxs/mp3 but not ogg/ogg but not mp3/g15:27
infobotjohnx meant: I don't think there are many people who can play ogg but not mp3...15:27
johnxoops :)15:27
* johnx must be tired...15:27
qgilTo tell you the truth, I don't even go through this debate, this is why I thought about offering both - exporting is easy15:28
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qgilanyway, another option is to start with mp3 only since is the default candidate and if anybody has a better suggestion then let's move there15:29
johnxprobably a good plan15:29
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X-Fadeqgil: yeah, we can always move it..15:29
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qgilalright. now Audacity is asking me whether /usr/lib/ is in place  :)15:30
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X-FadeMust be a fedora thing :)15:31
qgilin Ubuntu?15:31
X-Fadeapt-get install lame?15:31
X-Fadeehm no liblame015:32
qgil(why do I obey blindlyto remote advice in IRC chatrooms?)  ;)15:33
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qgilX-Fade: alright, is exporting. I'm going to create a podshow account - what else?15:37
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X-Fadeqgil: Can't find how I can add a second owner of a show :(15:37
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qgilwell, I need to upload this file now - we'll figure out what to do next15:39
X-Fadeqgil: Ok, do you have a podshow account yet?15:39
qgilin the meantime, anybody knows where can we have a podcast hosted with multiple uploaders and ogg support?15:39
qgilX-Fade: just registered - "qgil"15:41
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qgilomg - yet another site that wants to build my network of friends by sniffing my gmail account15:42
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X-Fadeqgil: Well, I think the easiest way for you now is to click upload and create a show..15:43
jones-Hello. What gtk widget should I use to create something that looks like a spreadsheet?15:44
jones-I tried TreeView but can't find a way to have the cells with a border, in Hildon.15:44
johnxno real idea, but you could look at the source for gnumeric if no one else here knows15:44
qgilX-Fade: another potential requirement: CC licenses at hand15:46
X-FadeBugzilla is working again btw..15:46
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qgilX-Fade: more potential reqs: no ads (currently I'm getting a big Samsung banner at - which is kinda funny  :)15:51
X-Fadeqgil: What if we setup a podcast page at :) And link to the feed there?15:52
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qgilX-Fade: before I'd like to know how to upload a sound file............. I see video upload a thousand ""social"" stuff, but no upload podcast thing15:54
X-Fadeedit episode.15:55
X-Fadeqgil: Edit ->show episodes->add new episode ;)15:59
qgilX-Fade: to make it funnier the "episode" word is not in this Edit page...16:00
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X-Fadeqgil: You have to click on 'show control' for that.16:01
qgilaha, getting there...16:01
qgilyeah, I was in "master control" (very user intuitive)16:01
X-Fadeqgil: Yeah, it seems they need to hire a useability expert there.16:02
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msh_evening. anyone use the gpsmgr stuff? I'm puzzled why maemomapper's not working...16:03
qgilX-Fade: uploading... thanks!16:05
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eichidamn maemo mapper. i have allways problems with the map database16:11
eichigot read write errors etc.16:11
eichisomeone knows this?16:11
msh_eichi: I just had problems this evening with it on the internal mmc due to
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pepie34is the extras repository down ?16:13
X-Fadepepie34: Works for me.16:14
pepie34very slow very very very slow16:15
eichibut i formated the extern sd card several times. it only works few minutes, then same problem again16:15
pepie34even the web site is very very very .... very slow16:15
msh_I'm not sure sqlite is meant to work that well on fat3216:15
msh_though enough people seem to use it...16:15
X-Fadepepie34: both seem to work just fine for me.16:16
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pepie34other web sote are ok16:16
pepie34i'am in france16:16
pepie34may be network problem16:16
X-FadeI'm in NL.16:16
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pepie34not far so16:19
X-FadeWell, it is closer to Finland. But not that much.16:19
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X-FadeThere repository is mirrored by akamai, so you might hit a different server than I do.16:19
pepie34X-Fade FR-NL <=> 50km16:21
X-Fadepepie34: Well, 200 orso. But ;)16:22
pepie34but the is in Finland?16:22
eichimsh_, its seems to be a problem with write read persmission with maemo mapper16:22
eichii cant delete the databasefile with the filemanager anymore16:23
X-Fadeqgil: Sound OK! :)16:23
eichibut it was createt 2 minutes ago with meamo mapper16:23
X-Fadeqgil: The flors feed looks ok.16:25
qgilare you seeing my email address or is it just me?16:25
X-FadeI see you gmail.16:25
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qgilanyway, I have to get a shower and some breakfast (I'm still in San Francisco) I will blog about this later on16:26
pupnikeichi you may need to reformat internal mmc16:27
X-Fadeqgil: Please add the slides too.16:27
qgilthanks for your help, see you later!16:27
pupnikcheers qgil16:27
X-Fadeqgil: It is a bit hard to follow without them..16:27
pupnikthanks for the n81016:27
qgilthe slides are just pictures but I get your point16:27
qgilin the blog entry16:27
qgilwhen I publish it, I will upload the pdf there16:28
qgilin fact the core of the story is explained at
qgilI'm a bit surprised he didn't get almost any comment16:29
qgilany feedback is welcome16:29
pepie34downloading openssh is impossible and the website is very slow....16:29
qgil(perhaps it is more interesting to discuss about thing not working properly in the tablets)  ;)16:29
X-Fadepepie34: It seems openssh is broken in extras. the -common package is missing.16:29
pepie34what o you mean by broken?16:30
pepie34i try also openssh-client openssh-server16:30
X-Fadepepie34: You can't install it at the moment.16:31
pepie34both do not download16:31
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pepie34is there an other to gain root privilege?16:31
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pepie34X-Fade, you can't install the deb or can't download the deb?16:32
pepie34because now i can't download it16:32
X-FadeI can download it, but it is missing dependencies.16:32
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pepie34how can works on my laptop16:47
pepie34everyother site works on the n80016:47
pepie34but no way to connect
pepie34with the n80016:47
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pepie34X-Fade it seems to work now16:55
pepie34openssh installed16:55
pepie34i've got warnings when ssh root@localhost16:56
pepie34but can login16:56
pepie34can login from network too16:58
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schuhi, anyone get booting off mmc slot working with n800 and latest os2008?17:28
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SpakmanHas anyone seen alterego around here recently?17:33
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Tobotraswhose alter ego?17:34
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rmartinezhi, can anyone tell me a repository address to get kismet (n770 OS2007)??17:46
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johnxrmartinez, let me see if I can find anything...17:47
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johnxI found it on for should work with 2007HE, I would guess17:49
*** Crfrod has quit IRC17:50 was on but I guess they took down the OS2006 repo :(17:50
rmartinezthanks, johnx17:51
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freelikegnujohnx: how goes?18:01
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eichipupnik, why formatting the INTERNAL? i have problems with the external18:06
eichii can see that maemo mapper seems to remount mmc extern from rw to ro18:06
eichidont know, why18:06
eichivery scarry18:06
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KotCzarnyscarry is kinda emo18:07
eichinot my day, not ma language ;D18:07
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eichiis there a maemo mapper mailinglist or something like that?18:07
eichicant find any18:08
KotCzarnyeichi: i believe it's not the maemo mapper problem18:08
KotCzarnyyou can try: dmesg | tail -n 2018:08
KotCzarnymy guess it's writing too fast and then card freaks out18:09
KotCzarnyand drama ensues18:09
KotCzarny(read only)18:09
X-Fade_My guess is that you have write errors on your card.18:09
pupnikeichi: if the device is switching to ro, it might be due to a partition table error.18:09
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eichiahh okay, that cound be the problem. cause i got it, after downloading some maps18:09
eichiX-Fade_, i formatted it many times..18:10
KotCzarnybut have you created new partition?18:10
X-Fade_eichi: dmesg should show them..18:10
KotCzarnyor used the one from factory18:10
eichiwithout maemo mapper it works fine. fotos, ogg etc18:10
eichiKotCzarny, dont know18:10
eichibut its not a nokia sd kard18:11
qwerty12Maybe its worth using the Panasonic SD formatter mentioned on Internet tablet talk?18:12
NaviI get it sometimes when I don't cleanly unmount crap.  Any card I stick in mounts ro18:13
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Navibut rebooting the device fixes it18:13
KotCzarnyrebooting runs disk checker18:14
NaviDoesn't matter18:14
NaviSD card's not in the slot when I reboot18:14
KotCzarnyeichi, try opening/closing battery cover?18:14
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KotCzarnythis should trigger remount loop18:14
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eichithere is something with EAC mode: play disable, rec disable18:15
KotCzarnythat's power saving18:15
eichiis this something from mmc?18:15
KotCzarnydoesn't matter18:15
eichiaah okay18:15
eichithen there is no message from mmc18:15
Jsn0327does anyone know where i can find the black theme shown here  ???18:16
KotCzarnyit's os200718:16
KotCzarnyi believe18:16
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qwerty12It is os200718:17
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Jsn0327will it work with 08?18:17
KotCzarnyif someone ported it to it..18:18
qwerty12Does os2007 themes need modification to work with os2008? If not, I will probably unpack 2007 image18:18
qwerty12oh skeen18:18
qwerty12I just got your message now18:18
qwerty12Are png/jpg/image files named the same in os2007 as in os2008?18:18
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Jsn0327i don't know i'm new to meamo18:21
qwerty12Same here, I got mine 2 months ago but I've learnt quite a bit? @KotCzarny or anyone, know where to get the sigc++-2.0' package for scratchbox? Thanks :)18:23
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KotCzarnyi don't know if skype depends on it18:26
KotCzarnyPackage: libsigc++-2.0-0c2a18:27
KotCzarnyFilename: pool/chinook/free/libs/libsigc++-2.0/libsigc++-2.0-0c2a_2.0.17-0maemo2_armel.deb18:27
KotCzarnyit's in extras18:27
KotCzarnyi believe18:27
qwerty12Ok, thanks :)18:27
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Jsn0327sratchbox is used to compile source code for maemo's kernal right?18:28
qwerty12Not really kernel18:28
qwerty12But for the maemo os18:28
qwerty12but maemo isnt a os - lol, im wasted :P18:29
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thopiekarhi there18:56
thopiekarhas somebody time for me to help me mount my external harddrive??18:56
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thopiekarwith ntfs-3g18:57
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KotCzarnyhave toy got fuse an ntfs--3g compiled?18:57
infobotKotCzarny meant: have you got fuse an ntfs--3g compiled?18:58
infobotKotCzarny meant: have toy got fuse a ntfs--3g compiled?18:58
thopiekari have installed the packages from the iTT-forum...19:02
thopiekarthey say it should work but it doesn't19:02
KotCzarnydefine 'doesn't'19:02
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pupnikso anybody got news on fmopl.c running on the DSP? :/19:20
thopiekarso can you help me make my external harddrive work under my n800??19:20
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pupniki have no idea19:22
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thopiekarbut it doesn't work for me..19:27
NaviWhat's the default user password?19:27
KotCzarnyit's locked19:28
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Navican't SSH in as user?19:28
KotCzarnyyou have to use passwd util to set one19:28
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KotCzarnyset a password19:28
KotCzarnythen you will19:28
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pupnikcheck out the builder for maemo-extras
* Mousey wishes he could build things for maemo19:30
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achadwickOh good; will somebody be setting up an autobuild daemon then?19:32
pupnikdon't know19:35
KotCzarnyadd autohildonizer19:36
KotCzarnythat would be cool19:36
NaviWhat if the autohildonizer was actually a chinese sweatshop?19:37
KotCzarnynavi: as long it does the right job, i don't mind19:37
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KotCzarnyvista on handheld?19:38
Navionly 1200, awesome19:38
* KotCzarny throws up19:38
Naviall the cool UMPCs come with it19:38
Jsn0327i installed the plankton theme. does anyone know how to change the panel icons to match the theme?19:38
Mouseyanyone got a bead on wesnoth 1.4 for maemo?19:38
Mouseyspeaking of autohildonizing19:38
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pupnikthere's a wesnoth iirc19:45
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Mouseyyea, 1.219:46
Mouseyhave it19:46
Mouseybut 1.4 just came out19:46
Mouseynow's my chance to prove to the hotties that i'm really l33t!19:46
Mouseybut i don't know who's maintaining the package, and/or if there's gonna be a new one19:47
KotCzarnyit's a battle isle clone?19:47
Mouseywhat's battle isle?19:48
* Mousey googles19:48
KotCzarnystrategy game with hexa field19:48
KotCzarnyi remember it from amiga times19:48
Mouseyah, no19:49
Mouseyfantasy genre19:49
KotCzarnybut strategy battle etc. ?19:49
Mouseyhmm, yea i guess so19:49
KotCzarnythen it's a clone19:49
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Mouseyit's super fun19:49
Mouseywell all TBS's are clones in that case19:49
Mouseycan't build structures19:51
Mouseyyou're undercutting it by comparing it to something so quaint, tho19:51
KotCzarnyit's from 199319:51
KotCzarnymind you19:51
pupniktwo wesnoth threads:19:51
Mouseypupnik: thx!!!!!19:52
Mouseyi think i should probably start reading itt more often if i'm gonna own this thing huh19:52
pupnikand use the search function too :)19:52
pope523I've somehow managed to break my ability to update software with apt-get and the Application Manager. Whenevr I try to update any packages, it tells me it can't because there are dependancies that aren't available. Can someone help me please?19:53
KotCzarnyhave you removed some repos?19:54
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pope523I had not when this all started. Since then, I've removed them all and then added all the repositories from this page:
pope523I also tried reflashing and not restoring my Applications list from my backup19:55
pope523OS2008 on N800, btw19:55
KotCzarnyhuh.. too much is a bad thing19:56
pupnikapt-get update as root from xterm?19:56
pope523pupnik: That fails. Hold on and I'll get you the error msg.19:56
KotCzarnyalso i see maemo-bora19:57
KotCzarnyon the list you have shown19:57
KotCzarnythat will break your dependencies19:57
KotCzarnystart with the top 5 repos19:57
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pope523I was having this problem before adding those repos. I will delete them all and just add the top 5 though19:58
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desertcHey - one of my most favorite features in OS2008 is the integration of chat, SIP, and other protocols in one presence application.19:58
desertcIs that called Mission Control?19:58
Robot101that's part of it20:00
desertcI was reading on the latest GNOME release notes that they integrated this Nokia developed package, so it made me ponder whether it was developed for Maemo or not.20:00
Robot101it's mainly based on the telepathy framework20:00
qwerty12Yes, look at - the feedback section20:00
desertcIt is so awesome.  I have three different SIP accounts routed through it, yet the configuration is so simple.20:01
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desertcThese are the kind of features that will make people want to move toward open communication standards.20:02
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desertc... and away from the current Skype standard.20:02
KotCzarnythat, and marketing20:02
pope523Ok, I deleted all my repos, then re-added just the first 5 on that list20:04
pope523Now apt-get update and the apt-get upgrade?20:04
KotCzarnyupdate i guess20:04
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desertcPeople don't care much about the fact Skype is closed, but open protocols have the potential for great interconnectivity.  That's something people will use decisively.  Just taking a long time for it to happen.  (Love to see a SIP and Jabber API in Firefox, for example.)20:07
KotCzarnytell that to phone companies..20:07
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magicrobotmonkeywhat an example of a SIP account?20:08
desertcI talked a couple of my Linux-using buddies into getting N800s.  One of them started using (can't remember the application name) so he can roll his mouse off his desktop and onto the N800 and start typing there.  Pretty cool.20:09
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magicrobotmonkeyhuh didnt know it had been ported, thats interesting20:09
magicrobotmonkeyi use it for desktop and lappy20:09
desertcThis is the fastest, easiest way to get started with SIP:
magicrobotmonkeyoh right20:10
desertcGoogle talk also supports SIP, but Gizmo makes it easy to call POTS (regular telephone) lines20:10
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magicrobotmonkeyis sip mainly for voice?20:10
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desertcSIP is all voice20:11
magicrobotmonkeyoh ok20:11
pope523I thought GTalk was Jabber20:11
desertcSIP is nice because it can get over NAT gateways easily20:11
magicrobotmonkeyim trying to figure out the best way to get a local number i can answer on my n81020:11
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desertcno question in my mind, Gizmo is what you want to get started20:12
magicrobotmonkeyare you very familiar with it?20:12
pope523Vonage will give you a 2nd line that you can configure on any SIP client for $10 a month20:12
pope523500 mins outgoign calls, unlimited incoming20:12
magicrobotmonkeyso can I do like, if my n810 is online, i can get a call their, otherwise, home computer can answering-machine it?20:12
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desertcwell - not sure about that20:13
desertcI use it in replacement of a home line20:13
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pope523magicrobotmonkey: voicemail for SIP accounts is usually server-based I think.20:13
magicrobotmonkeyso you pay gizmo for a local number?20:13
desertcif you don't pick it up, then it goes to a voice mail that emails you20:13
magicrobotmonkeyahh i see20:13
Robot101desertc: google talk is much better at getting over NATs thant SIP20:14
Robot101SIP usually works because your provider gateways every single call and they're not behind a NAT20:14
Robot101with gtalk, google only need to gateway about 5% of calls20:14
desertcRobot101: Okay - and the OS2008 lets you integrate those two together20:14
Robot101yes, its nice isn't it :D20:14
Robot101we're working on a GNOME UI for it20:14
Robot101called Empathy20:14
desertcoops, disregard the part after /?20:15
desertcWhat you want is a "Call In" featue20:15
desertcThey have (603) numbers20:15
magicrobotmonkeyi was looking for that20:16
desertcI got the call-in number for a year and a ton of call-out minutes --- cost me much less than one month of cell phone use20:16
magicrobotmonkeyheh no kidding20:17
desertcThen, I found an even better deal on call-out minutes (about 0.01$ less per minute) and I tied THAT account into my N800 too20:17
desertcSo now I have Gizmo, Diamond (cheap callout), and Google Talk all under the same interface20:18
magicrobotmonkeyfirst it says $35/year, then $99/year20:18
desertcAll transparent to me20:18
magicrobotmonkeyoh so you dont need to install gizmo?20:18
desertcGizmo is a pre-configured package on the N800, but there seems to be an integrated communication package already on the N800 by default20:18
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desertcIt just says Internet Call in the menu20:19
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magicrobotmonkeyright, thats what i mean20:19
desertcThat's not Gizmo20:20
desertcBut it will work with your Gizmo account20:20
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magicrobotmonkeydo you know how google's grandcentral works?20:20
desertcThe thing I like about Gizmo is it gives you the ability to download a Gizmo client on any OS, and use your SIP account20:21
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desertcAnd it has support, unlike Diamond20:21
desertcI know a little bit about G.C.20:21
magicrobotmonkeyis that sip too?20:21
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magicrobotmonkey(geez, nh numberws are 3x the base price)20:22
desertcNot totally sure.  It's still in beta.  It has a nice call-in dialog though!20:22
desertcmagicrobotmonkey: NH has always had problems with their tel-coms20:22
magicrobotmonkeyyea, i've been watching it, but they have no nh numbers20:22
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magicrobotmonkeylive free or die!20:22
desertcread: monopoly20:23
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desertcwhat's nice is you can get a number anywhere - - you want to get a NYC number?  sure, no problem20:23
desertcyou want to move across the country and keep your NH number?  sure, no problem20:24
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desertcand so cheap.  I pay about $20 every three or four months for my call-out minutes.  Contrast that to my $100 a month for my cell phone20:25
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magicrobotmonkeyim looking at 100/year for a call-in20:25
magicrobotmonkeyso, 1/12 my cell bill20:26
desertc$100?  I thought they were $35/year20:26
desertcOh, for the NH number, it's more you said20:26
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magicrobotmonkeyfirst i have to make sure one of those numbers is actually a local call from my town though20:27
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MoRpHeUzanybody using opensync with the tablet ?20:28
desertcQ: Why is Firefox not saving my username / passwords ?20:29
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desertcoops - I guess it is sometimes.  just not for some pages that Opera was handling before20:30
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desertcmagicrobotmonkey: The Call-In feature is expensive because they have to negotiate that with the phone companies.  Once everyone moves to SIP-to-SIP calling, we're going to be making calls worldwide for peanuts.20:31
desertcand that's going to happen sooner than people think.  All the linux cellphones coming out this year ... you can bet they will support SIP calling20:33
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desertcThe question is -- will we all be using cell-phone infrastructure to get on the net, or a more open wi-fi or wi-max network.20:34
Robot101I don't think this VOIP stuff is as amazing or disruptive as we'd like it to be :P20:34
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Robot101wi-fi hotspots are basically useless to me, they have too many wide/varied providers and logons, and too high prices, for me to bother being a member of (m)any of them20:35
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magicrobotmonkeyyea but wi-max is getting close20:35
magicrobotmonkeyand n also helps20:36
Robot101yes, so who provides wi-max?20:36
desertcPeople spend 90% of their time between home and work where they have free wifi20:36
Robot101your friendly cell operator20:36
desertcIt's just a matter of figuring out the last 10%20:36
Robot101who, oh, still charge you for your usage. its not like it becomes free suddenly just because its data and not a call.20:36
magicrobotmonkeythink sprint'll make you get voice to get data?20:36
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magicrobotmonkeydidn't say anything about free20:37
Robot101no, they'll charge you for the data, and the more people use data and the less they use voice... they're not just going to lower their profits because they feel like it.20:37
desertcRobot101: I can make VoIP calls over my cellphone data plan which costs $20 a month20:37
magicrobotmonkeybut it would be nice to get it down to one pipe20:37
magicrobotmonkeydesertc: who's that with?20:37
magicrobotmonkeymm thats unlimited data? and bt tethering?20:37
Robot101how it gets to me is of little concern. it probably makes it easier for them if their network and infrastructure can make all of the stuff go over voip, but if all the voice traffic turns into data traffic, they're still going to charge us for it, and on average, it'll end up costing us the same.20:38
desertcNow, I also pay $80 for a cellphone plan, but -- it's just an example20:38
Robot101now it's somehow magical/mystical because voip can make things cheaper because it's not the usual way of doing it, but the gap will close, and ultimately the cards all still lie with the people who connect us to the internet.20:38
Robot101not that I'm saying its pointless, there are a lot of places (international call charges, operator hand-off, etc) where voip can be (and already is) very disruptive to people's profit margins20:39
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desertcRobot101: As always, it's about adding competition to the mix.  Right now, you have five cellphone provides.  There are 1,000s of SIP providers.  And you can even get vendors who will compete just for your voicemail business.20:39
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Robot101but between my mobile/tablet and the rest of the world, the guy who paid to put a mast in every town will always win.20:39
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desertcThe only thing I cannot do with SIP right now is talk in my car.  Now, that's illegal in most states, but it is useful in tight pinches.  Otherwise, I would scrap my cell phone.20:40
* Mousey says: to hell with the profit margins of companies who aren't paying Mousey!20:40
pope523desertc: It's not illegal with a Bluetooth headset, is it?20:42
desertcno idead20:42
pope523Probably not20:42
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desertcjust hypothetically, we could have wifi in every car and use the mesh networking technology ala XO laptops in cars20:47
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desertcthat technology is already there - just the infrastructure is needed.  Would be within our grasp to put a public wifi spot every 500 meters on streets20:48
pope523There already is in a lot of places20:48
pope523Well, public by default :)20:49
magicrobotmonkeya *lot* of place?20:49
pope523Yeah, like anywhere there's residences20:49
magicrobotmonkeyoh right20:49
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magicrobotmonkeyyea in cambridge, i would pick up 4-5 unsecure and 4-5 secure hotspots from my apartment20:49
pope523That sounds about right for me too20:50
desertcwe *could* have this right now, but we choose to let corporations try and profit from passing bits around in the air20:50
magicrobotmonkeyand even here in nh, i get 3 unsecure and 1 secure20:50
magicrobotmonkeynot including mine20:50
desertcand, like any infrastructure, you get monopolies20:50
magicrobotmonkeywell, thats what fon's trying to do20:50
magicrobotmonkeybut the problem with their model is you still have the last mile on the other side of the router20:51
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desertcand, so, people would say that everyone would download huge files on public networks, and that's probably true, but you regulate infrastructure - just like roads.  Imagine if no city had public roads because there might be people who *gasp* would use it for trucks.20:52
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magicrobotmonkeyi think part of the problem is, its hard to get techincally competent people in government20:53
magicrobotmonkeyand the other part is, its in a lot of big companies financial interest not to see this kind of stuff happen20:54
desertcand I think the problem is that we have monopolies on our communication methods and airwaves.20:54
desertcI'm all for companies being able to make money on services, but we should never have given corps ownership of our infrastructure.20:56
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desertcI don't know what it will take to own it again, but hopefully Google managed to buy some of that FCC spectrum and will release it for wifi, wi-max devices20:57
desertcAnyone use a N800 on a university campus with wifi throughout the area?  I bet it works like a champ.20:58
shackanI did20:58
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pope523desertc: I do at school. They have some stupid "CleanAgent" software that makes it a PITA to connect w/ a Windows computer, the N800 has no trouble.20:59
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desertcThat's an example of the communication infrastructure being owned by the residence.  Hopefully this model will get adopted more widely.20:59
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fugitivoany howto to make a deb package for chinook? Im following this ( but when i try to install it on a real device it says the package is incomplete21:08
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pupnik nice howtto link fugitivo  - ty21:10
b1ackD3athi <3 ettercap21:11
pupnikfugitivo: if you ar x your package you should have debian-binary, control.tar.gz and data.tar.gz21:13
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fugitivoI have21:15
KotCzarnymaybe it says incompatible, not incomplete?21:15
fugitivoi found this21:16
b1ackD3athred pill?21:16
fugitivototally diferent from the other one21:16
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fugitivowell it's harder to create a deb package than porting an application to maemo :)21:20
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KotCzarnybut only first time21:20
fugitivoKotCzarny: is the first tutorial correct or it doesn't work for os2008?21:21
HollyCHollyCan you encrypt data on a nokia N series tablet?21:21
fugitivo  <- this one21:21
KotCzarnyi don't know21:21
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KotCzarnyi too have to learn how to createe =debs21:21
KotCzarnyin slackware it's easier ;)21:21
HollyCHollyI'm looking to get one for work, but am afraid of losing it and people getting what's on it21:21
desertcJust got another call on my Gizmo Line-In .  Gosh, I love my N80021:22
KotCzarnyHollyCHolly: i believe there was truecrypt ported21:22
HollyCHollySo if there's encryption then i'll get an N series table21:22
fysaIf you really know what you are doing, I don't see why you couldn't get EncFS or Loop-AES working.21:22
desertcAnyone else see the SIP calls where the incoming sound does not work for 10 seconds or so?21:22
KotCzarnytruecrypt is easier21:22
KotCzarnyand has a gui21:22
HollyCHollyWhere do I find out if this truecrypt was ported?21:22
fysathere you go.21:23
fysagoogle. :)21:23
fysa"truecrypt maemo"21:23
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fugitivoKotCzarny: you are right, it says "incompatible application package" :)21:24
fugitivodesertc: me21:24
fugitivodesertc: with outgoing calls too21:24
KotCzarnyfugitivo: hah, i'm right again :>21:24
fugitivothen i'll try to follow the second howto21:25
fugitivoits harder21:25
desertcfugitivo: I never saw that happen in OS2007.  I think it is a bug.21:25
KotCzarnymaybe you simply have to add chinook or armel tag21:26
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HollyCHollyAnyone get truecrypt working on their nokia?21:39
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fugitivothis is a pain in the ass21:41
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schuhi, anyone get booting off mmc slot working with n800 and latest os2008?21:43
fugitivoPackage must have "Section: user/FOO" to be considered compatible21:44
keesj_schu: yes I think so21:44
KotCzarnyfugitivo: it's because safety mode21:44
KotCzarnyif you use redpill it doesn't have to21:44
fugitivoi have21:44
schui can't even get the initfs to decompress >.<21:44
fugitivoSection: unstable21:44
fugitivoisn't that enough?21:44
schutar says not right magic or whatever21:44
KotCzarnyschu: why are you trying to decompress initfs?21:45
schucuz it comes in .tgz...21:45
keesj_hmm I was talking about the rootfs on mmc not the initfs21:45
schuwell the guide listed off maemo site uses that to move21:46
* KotCzarny used mc21:46
schu is what i was looking off of21:46
keesj_and you are trying to untar the downloaded file call ed initfs_flasher.tgz?21:49
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schusays invalid gzip magic, is file getting corrupted?21:50
keesj_perhaps your webbrowser already unpacked it , try without the z21:51
schuinval tar magic XD21:52
keesj_so tar xvf initfs_flasher.tgz21:52
KotCzarnyschu: do: file initfs_flasher.tgz21:52
KotCzarnythat should tell you what it is21:52
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schuno file cmd21:53
KotCzarnyschu: do you have pc handy?21:53
schubtw, tar xvzf works on my linux box21:53
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schufor decompressing that file21:53
KotCzarnyon nokia there's a substitute for tar and gzip21:53
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KotCzarnycould be incompatible21:53
wom-just quick question.. has anyone tried that vmware image made by indt. guite nice :)21:54
keesj_wom-: yes, it is nice indeed21:54
schuhum, i guess i flash down to one of the listed firmwares and see if it works21:55
etrunkowom-: setanta is the guy who did it21:55
wom-one problem though, network doesn't work from scratchbox for me. tried all nssswitch stuff and that but no success :/21:55
keesj_just repackage it and try21:55
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wom-nice work from setanta. very light weight21:55
keesj_how do you tranfer the files over?21:55
etrunkowom-: is it just sbox or the whole vm?21:55
setantawom-, thanks21:55
wom-etrunko: network works from vm21:55
wom-i just wanted to update python to 2.5 but repository can't be resolved. then i realized that host resolving doesn't work21:56
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fugitivocat /etc/resolv.conf21:57
wom-its same as in vm21:57
fugitivocan you ping the dns servers?21:58
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wom-they work from vm. no ping in scratchbox at the moment :)21:58
setantayes, try wget21:59
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fugitivowhy my n810 wifi connection sucks?21:59
setantait should download the index.html21:59
wom-doesnt work. tried it already :)21:59
wom-so its generic name resolving problem21:59
fugitivois that power saving that sucks?21:59
KotCzarnybut it works in the same matter on laptops too22:00
fugitivossh to my n810 is a pain in the ass22:00
KotCzarnydo you have to choose, latency or battery power22:00
fugitivomy Eee works great with wifi22:00
KotCzarnyfugitivo: change power saving from max to moderate22:00
KotCzarnythat will do the trick22:00
KotCzarnyfugitivo: then you eee doesn't use extreme powersaving for wifi22:01
fugitivoill turn it off22:01
KotCzarnyjust lower22:01
KotCzarnybelieve me22:01
wom-setanta: any pointers where to look next. checked host: files dns in nsswitch. resolv.conf is same as in vm22:01
KotCzarnyqwerty12: what does 'cp' mean?22:01
fugitivooh thats much better22:02
setantawom-, just a question: the networking inside sbox stopped working, or never worked at all?22:02
wom-setanta: never worked22:02
KotCzarnynot true22:02
fugitivoyes! my deb packaged installed succesfully22:02
KotCzarnyi can use wget from sbox22:02
fugitivoNavit for the people22:02
qwerty12_N800I mean the help you gave me on copy cmd :) @Kot22:03
wom-i had to fix mac address in vm to get network working in vm.. so hmm. maybe i should fix it somehow in scratchbox22:03
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KotCzarnyqwerty12: ah, ok, my dirty mind knows other meaning of 'cp'22:03
qwerty12_N800Lol, i'm extremely dirty but cp iz a new one :p :D22:04
KotCzarnyyeah.. internet is full of suprises..22:04
setantawom-, i will start up a vm and check it out22:05
qwerty12_N800CP  (CANADIAN PAC RAILWAY) :p22:05
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wom-setanta: oh thanks for help :)22:06
wom-setanta: i can see eth0 in scratchbox so its not mac address.. or most likely it is not that22:07
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qwerty12_N800Oh **** lol, i better edit my post...22:08
KotCzarnywhat has been seen, cannot be unseen22:09
setantawom-, are you starting sbox with the icon in the vm's desktop, or from the command line?22:10
setantathe icon calls a script that always copies the vm's resolv.conf to all the targets22:11
setantabefore start sbox and Xephyr22:11
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wom-ah, ok thats why my changes to resolv.conf got erased when i tried changing :)22:12
setantai put that just to make sure22:12
setantayou said before that you changed something in the vm in respect to the mac address or something like it22:13
setantawhat was that exactly?22:13
wom-it had put my network card mac to eth122:13
wom-and i couldn't see any cards22:13
wom-i erased line with eth0 and changed eth1 to eth0.. this was in ... file that i cant remember22:14
wom-checked the mac from vm's vmx config file22:14
wom-after that i got eth0 to vm and network in it started to work22:14
setantawom-, /etc/network/interfaces22:15
wom-nope.. wait i'll try to remember and check google22:16
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qwerty12_N800setanta: is there anyway to transfer your scratchbox install to my real linux install? I cannot do much now as i am away from computer. I don't really like22:17
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qwerty12_N800I hate hildon kbd :(. I planned to finish off that sentence :(22:18
setantaqwerty12_N800, i think copying the /scratchbox directory from vm to host should work22:18
qwerty12_N800Ok, thanks :)22:18
setantamaybe some small problems22:19
setantafor scratchbox expects your username in it to be the same outside22:19
setantain other words, the vm's scratchbox expects you to be "maemo"22:20
wom-setanta: it was this /etc/udev//rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules22:20
qwerty12_N800I may make a new account then because I really like the image but not vmware and i dont really want to emulate linux on linux. Anyway , thank you again.22:20
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wom-setanta: in scratchbox and in vm i have eth0 looking similar when chekcing with ifconfig22:22
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setantaqwerty12_N800, till now the vm is produced "manually", but i'm working on some scripts to install everything22:25
setantathey could be useful in your case22:25
setantawom-, strange... for me at least :)22:25
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wom-for me too.. i will see if i can resolve this. i will let you know then :)22:26
qwerty12_N800Ahh, ok. I think it may be worth waiting then (i'm not holding you to anything :)). Thanks and i have my question answered so i will step back22:26
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wom-setanta: network works when using just ip..22:29
wom-very strange22:29
setantawom-, yes, tell me, i want to know that :)22:29
setantai mean, about you other sentence22:30
setantayes, everything should be zeroconf like22:30
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etrunkocanola2-beta6 packages available22:42
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schubleh, dumb ver diff between os2008 v1 and v2 for tar >.<22:46
schuis there simple way to upgrade packages to v2 with apt from os2008 v1?22:47
BabelOhi,quick and stupid question, i just made a usb connector for host mode and i get this when i plug an other device ( the other device is self powered and is seen as an usb mass storage )
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pupnikwait vfall may be related to usb power22:52
solmumahai think i got that exact message when my usb stick wasn't properly attached22:54
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BabelOhmm, the other message  is this, depend of the mass storage attached "tusb_otg_ints 833: vbus too slow, devctl 11"22:55
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solmumahayou sure the cable works? :)22:57
solmumahadid you try keyboard for example?22:58
BabelOyes, ok i ve to try again, i ve found my tester, i try the cable22:59
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schuany of you put omniorb on an n800?23:05
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konttoriHas everyone already tested the rotation support?23:10
KotCzarnyi will23:10
KotCzarnysome day23:10
konttoriI just tested. takes 5 mins.23:10
KotCzarnyi have already patched kernel and compiled xomap23:10
konttorirocks ... totally rocks!23:10
konttoriAll you then need is this:
konttoriInstall that and you are done23:11
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konttoriwell.. install the xomap of course as well23:11
konttoribrowser is truly great with it23:12
KotCzarnyand how's the matchbox doing with it?23:14
KotCzarnypost some screenshots23:14
KotCzarnymenus, apps, etc23:15
konttoriCheck the video on :
BabelOlol, my fault it works now, i redo the connector23:15
konttoriThat shows it much better23:15
konttoriThe only problem really is the app launcher menu.23:15
konttoriAnd some apps support the portrait better than others23:16
KotCzarnyhaving pictures could be more usefull23:16
konttoriI'm just about to go to bed, so no screenshots from me.23:16
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KotCzarnyhiding left bar could be great23:16
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KotCzarnyspirytusik: nie jestem zarejestrowany na freenode, jak cos to #kotc23:33
spirytusickbosz :)23:34
spirytusickjest #kotc23:34
kennejestem kenne z danii, but i do not speak polish :P23:35
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KotCzarnykenne, :)23:37
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smackpotatowhat is the usb connector,mini,micro,dwaf23:48
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KotCzarnymini on n800, micro on n810 ?23:49
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KotCzarnyi'm not sure about n81023:49
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BabelOsomeone know why this warning ? cx3110x: WARNING prism_softmac_frame_tx_done() returned an empty frame.23:51
spirytusickguys, take care, morpheus calling...23:51
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KotCzarnybabelo: because of power savings?23:51
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KotCzarnyand closed driverness23:51
* lcuk has finally made 800*480 xv mode flicker..23:52
pygihey folks23:52
KotCzarnylcuk: try xrandr patch23:52
BabelOKotCzarny: ok, just curious about all thismessage ;)23:52
pygidoes anyone knows anything about how to make austrian web shop code work with german one?:)23:52
KotCzarny480x800 reader will be interesting23:52
lcukno its not rotation or scaling - i think i just made the cpu overwork itself.23:53
lcukreading is rock solid 800*48023:53
KotCzarnylcuk: but will your code work on rotated screen ?23:53
lcuki was blitting >1000 x,y locations onto random positions and made it flicker23:53
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lcukit should do once i finish putting in the ttf font code - its still based around fixed aspect sdl_ttf at the mo and scaling looks crap23:54
lcuki dont need r&r if i am just blitting rectangles - i just initialise the font sideways if required23:54
KotCzarnydon't scale then, just change font?23:54
lcukits no extra work23:54
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lcuksdl_ttf is fixed at 72 dpi square - if i ask it to make me a bitmap of a 20 point font then rotate it sideways it looks awful23:55
lcukits a similar problem to when i am using a lower res screen - a 20 point font on a 400*480 or 800*240 screen looks fat or tall23:56
lcuki need the proper ttf code putting in so i can request a specific dpi - i however got sidetracked23:56
KotCzarnyyou will end up hacking it anyway23:56
* lcuk damns the conversation about the camera the other night23:57
lcuki wont hack it - i will just ask for a specific correct dpi and using that23:57
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lcukalthough - i might not end up using fonts at all - i put in pressure support to the mouse and have been considering reading the book in my own handwriting23:58
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KotCzarnyi would hate that23:59
KotCzarnymy handwriting is illegible23:59
lcukKotCzarny, regarding r&r support, i cant expect that to be usable for the end user because they would need a kernel mod installing and i cant feasibly thrust that on folks - i may just end up ioctl'ing and getting my current screen rotated23:59

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