IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-03-11

ccookemaybe00:00
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ccookeno more than any other case00:00
KotCzarnyyeah00:00
KotCzarnyunfortunatelly00:00
elbthat video is such a waste of bandwidth00:00
KotCzarnyhehe00:00
ccookealso, you can leave the tablet unlocked in it00:00
KotCzarnyat least it's watchable00:00
KotCzarnyand not .pps00:00
KotCzarnyhttp://www.mobilizenow.com/catalog/Nokia_N800_Vehicle_Mounts_and_Holders_752238.htm00:01
ccookeonly the buttons are free, which aren't going to be triggered in my shirt pocket, say00:01
KotCzarnynokia doesn't have any screw holes00:01
KotCzarnyi wonder how it works00:01
KotCzarnyyeah, that's a plus00:02
ccookeKotCzarny: it's padded and a tight fit. you push the tablet in and the friction holds it strongly00:02
ccookeit'll come out if you hit it hard while open00:03
ccooke*verifies* yep00:03
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ccookebut gravity won't pull it out, and it's fine with moderate taps while being held open and upside down00:04
ccookenow all I need is canola to optionally use the external +/- buttons as next/prev00:06
KotCzarnyhehe00:06
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.compuplus.com/i-Nokia-AD-42W-Stereo-Audio-Gateway-0276236-1009890~.html?sid=018zfbxt6mhz08400:07
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KotCzarnyi could use that00:07
KotCzarny:>00:07
lcddno reason to think it isn't as shitty as the headphone output on n8x000:08
KotCzarnyit connects to hifi equipment00:09
KotCzarnyquite convenient00:09
KotCzarnyhmm00:09
KotCzarnyit works both ways00:09
KotCzarny:)00:09
ccookelcdd: huh? seems pretty good with decent headphones00:10
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.simsimgate.com/cell-phones-pdas/nokia-replica/nokia-n800-style-cell-phone-mobile-phones-with-256mb-card/prod_946.html00:10
KotCzarnyo.o00:10
KotCzarnywtf is this?00:10
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dalonsoHi people, could someone help me with hildon-application-manager, please? I cannot install anything since some days ago00:11
dalonsoit always fails without leaving a message in the log00:11
dalonsobut i can install packages from an ssh session with apt-get00:11
lcddccooke: it's really noisy with sensitive phones00:12
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.shopstormcomputer.com/ssproduct.asp?pf_id=101084690500:16
KotCzarnynice price00:16
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lcddsomething opens the audio device even with system sounds disabled. every time a window is closed there's a buzz coming out of the output for a second or so00:17
lcddit gets really annoying when you have earphones plugged in00:18
KotCzarnylcdd: turn off system sounds?00:18
Veggendalonso: hmm. have you got "strace" installed?00:18
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Veggenwhen you get no logs, that's often the best bet.00:19
lcddKotCzarny: they are. i'm talking about noise floor on the device, which is audible00:19
KotCzarnylcdd: ah, i understand00:19
KotCzarnyemi00:19
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KotCzarny:)00:19
lcddKotCzarny: when there is no sound being played it's dead silent00:19
Veggenand those of us who are daily exposed to badly documented enterprise software learn to appreciate system call tracing ;)00:20
lcddwhich just means someone is saving power :)00:20
KotCzarny:)00:20
* KotCzarny plots retu-adc battery log00:20
dalonsoVeggen, hi,00:21
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dalonsoVeggen: I just discovered that the problem is that my mmc2 filesystem is readonly00:22
Veggenoh. ok.00:22
dalonsoVeggen: so application-manager cannot dowload packages00:22
dalonsobut I don't know how this happened00:22
Veggenmmm, that often happens when there is a problem with it. I have found it sometimes necessary to fsck it. Which OS version do you have?00:23
dalonso200800:23
KotCzarnyreboot usually fixes it00:23
KotCzarny:)00:23
KotCzarny(cards are checked wwhen mounting)00:23
KotCzarnyor opening/closing battery cover00:24
KotCzarnybut this will only work for mmc cards00:24
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dalonsooops,00:24
dalonsoI am really silly00:25
dalonsothe card was write locked00:25
dalonsosorry00:25
KotCzarnylol00:25
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dalonsois working now ;-) Thx00:25
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f_mohri was playing with some usbmicro cables i got today (n810) .. shouldn't the B cable be used to connect the n810 to a pc and the A cable to switch the n810 to host mode?01:12
KotCzarnyyou can switch host mode in software01:13
f_mohri did that before i ordered the cables .. those cables both work only as host mode cables in OTG mode and don't work with the pc (even if i switch modes on the device)01:17
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smackpotatowhats the latest with the gps01:24
KotCzarny'it sucks'01:24
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smackpotatowhy can it only remember visible satalites for a short time01:25
smackpotatoafter shuting down01:26
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f_mohrmine did (30sec to get a fix after 1hr power off)01:27
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KotCzarny30sec is a good result01:27
KotCzarny:>01:27
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KotCzarnyppl report 1-2min there01:27
KotCzarny;)01:27
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f_mohrbut to get an initial fix i usually need 3min01:28
KotCzarnyhehe01:28
smackpotatomine has no problem staying on inside once i get a fix01:29
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KotCzarnyanyone tried nokia 3dlw ?01:30
smackpotatowould nowing what satalites were visible speed it up01:30
KotCzarny3d-lw01:30
KotCzarny(it's a sirf iii based bt gps)01:30
smackpotatoi heard sif iii was awsume01:31
KotCzarnygoogle lists it for ~80-90$01:31
KotCzarnyAccuracy Typical ± 5-10 m, maximum ± 25 m (95% open-sky)01:32
KotCzarnyUpdate rate 1 s01:32
KotCzarnyAcquisition times Approximately 45s/2s (cold/hot start)01:32
KotCzarny:>01:32
moa-anyone got fuse/sshfs to work with a n810?01:33
f_mohri have a sirf III usb mouse .. those values meet that01:33
KotCzarnymoa: what's the problem?01:33
moa-Just wondering if it can be done01:34
KotCzarnymoa: no problem01:34
f_mohrsshfs as client or server?01:34
moa-apt-get package, or source only01:34
KotCzarnyboth01:34
moa-client01:34
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f_mohri did a test with the n810 gps and my old garmin geko301 side by side this evening .. n810 results look much better01:45
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.pcsuperdeals.com/ProductView.asp?ProductID=4520eb3a-6356-40bf-95ff-c315e4ed0c7e&Refer=1101:49
KotCzarny'super' deal01:49
KotCzarny:>01:49
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christefanohas anyone seen their Airport Extremes die on a regular basis when an N8x0 starts using the network?01:59
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smackpotatothat pay later must be great02:08
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unixSnoblol.. $1600 to get a backorder on a NIT02:08
KotCzarny;)02:08
KotCzarny300 available02:08
KotCzarny;)02:08
smackpotato1 in 5 dont actually pay02:08
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unixSnobthat can't be in USD02:08
unixSnobThat must be in rupees02:09
KotCzarnyit's all over the page02:09
smackpotatocould be hk dollars02:09
unixSnobit would be a good deal, if it came w/ free delievery.. to antarctica02:09
KotCzarnyBased in West Los Angeles, CA02:09
KotCzarny(from about us)02:10
unixSnobanyone have a coupon code for this thing xD02:10
smackpotatoa big scam for canadians when there dollor was 70 was to take american express checks to the states and hope the cashier didnt notice02:11
KotCzarny:)02:11
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elb... for stupid Canadians, maybe02:12
elb"financial fraud" is a pretty serious charge, and the US and Canada do have extradition treaties02:13
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unixSnobi'm about to checkout.. shipping is indeed free02:14
KotCzarnyi believe n800 didn't cost more than 500$ even preordered02:14
unixSnobhey, maybe they have a pricematching policy that knocks a percent of the difference off02:15
unixSnobthat would be sweet02:15
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KotCzarny:)02:17
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unixSnobIf there are any credit cards out there that still have price protection, this is the time to take advantage of it.. if you want to get back at the credit card co.02:18
KotCzarny:>02:18
KotCzarnywhat's a price protection?02:18
unixSnobI used to have one.. it's a credit card that had a feature where you could claim a refund of the difference if you found a product for less within 30 days after buying it.02:19
KotCzarnywow02:20
KotCzarnynice02:20
unixSnobCitibank had it for a few years, then discontinued it.02:20
KotCzarnybut i believe it was a loss for a bank02:20
unixSnobtheir rationale was that folks would make more purchases on the card because of it, and thus make more profit for the bank02:21
unixSnobobviously they lost more than they gained, because they discontinued it02:21
KotCzarny:>02:21
unixSnobBut I think some cards still have it.. but it's a premium feature.  I don't see it on the free credit cards anymore02:21
unixSnobwhen the program was still in action, I ran up purchases at cyberrebate.com.. where everything was free after rebate02:23
KotCzarny:>02:23
KotCzarnylol02:23
unixSnobbut the up front cost was 4 times the shelf price02:23
unixSnobSo I got the rebate, plus the difference in price02:23
unixSnobessentially getting paid to take the stuff02:23
KotCzarnynot bad02:23
KotCzarnyhow much stuff did you get that way?02:24
unixSnobthen I sold the junk02:24
KotCzarny:)02:24
unixSnobprobably spent a couple thousand in junk.. some if it was kitchen appliances that I kept02:24
KotCzarny:>02:24
unixSnobIt was all free after MIR; and then I made an equal number of claims through the banks price protection program02:25
unixSnobit was a fun college hobby02:25
unixSnobcyberrebates eventually went out of business02:25
KotCzarnylol02:25
KotCzarnybecause of you?02:25
KotCzarny:>02:25
unixSnobThey were probably doing a scam of some kind themselves02:25
KotCzarnyhehe02:26
unixSnobit pissed me off.. because I never got the last rebate02:26
KotCzarnybut you're on the + side anyway02:26
unixSnobit was a 100 dollar rebate for some cheap ass 50 cent haning fruit basket for a kitchen02:26
KotCzarnyof the balance02:26
unixSnobyeah, i still came out ahead02:26
unixSnobyou know that bank never gives me a break when I ask to have a fee reversed.. now that I think of it02:27
KotCzarnyhttp://mobilereviews.freehostia.com/wordpress/?p=3902:27
KotCzarnyn800 was meant to have gps and wimax?02:28
KotCzarnylol02:28
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unixSnobi hope my n800 breaks on the last month of the warranty.. maybe I can return it for warranty repair, and end up with one that has wimax02:30
KotCzarnydreamer02:30
KotCzarnyi haven't seen any other news site mentioning it02:30
smackpotatoi wore out the touch screen on my 770. nokia replaced it02:31
KotCzarnywhat's needed for a return?02:35
Veggenhmmf.02:38
Veggennever try to adjust your bicycle brakes for the first time after midnight the day before you plan to start bicycle season.02:38
KotCzarny:>02:39
Veggen<---ten thumbs. Now I need to see a bicycle shop before I can use it ;P02:39
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KotCzarnylol02:39
KotCzarnygood for you nokia is quite easy to use with thumbs02:40
KotCzarny:)02:40
Veggenmmm.02:40
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KotCzarnyhm. weird02:46
KotCzarnyhttp://www.skype.com/intl/en/download/skype/nokia/02:46
KotCzarnylists 1.7.62.49.102:46
KotCzarnydpkg shows 1.7.62.51.102:47
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KotCzarnytableteer.nokia has newer one02:49
KotCzarnystill, weird02:49
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cLinis there anyway to modify autocomplete so i can add in url entries?02:57
timelyfor the browser?02:57
KotCzarnyjust type them?02:57
timely(or the input methods...)02:58
KotCzarnyfor the browser bookmarks seem favourable02:58
KotCzarny:)02:58
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cLinyes, but i like typing03:03
cLinor is there something like keyword search on firefox? i can type keyword + search03:03
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timelyif you're feeling really evil, you could change the "search" behavior to a javascript: url03:05
timelywhich would probably let you bunch a couple of keywords together03:05
timely(search is generally triggered by typing more than one word into the urlbar and triggering "go")03:06
moa-Does anyone know where I can find maemofuse and sshfs for os2008?03:07
KotCzarnymoa: as a deb?03:08
KotCzarnyor tar.gz is enough?03:08
moa-tar.gz is fine with me03:08
moa-All I can find is the os2006 debs03:08
KotCzarnyi can give you mine binaries03:08
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KotCzarnymrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/fuse_sshfs.tar.gz03:09
moa-sweet03:09
moa-Let me give those a try03:09
KotCzarnyi should really make a proper package from it03:11
KotCzarnybut i'm a slackware man03:11
KotCzarny:>03:11
KotCzarny.tgz should be enough03:11
moa-I lost them once I untared03:11
moa-usr/local/03:12
moa-:P03:12
KotCzarnyyou should untar to /03:12
KotCzarnythat will put files in proper places03:12
KotCzarnyotherwise you will need to move them yourself03:12
moa-in the process of moving them now03:13
KotCzarnyi should've added mount.sshfs symlink, but busybox's mount seems to ignore it03:14
moa-can't open libfuse.so.2 shared object03:23
KotCzarnyadd /usr/local/lib to /etc/ld.so.conf03:23
KotCzarnyand run ldconfig03:23
KotCzarnyor just put it in /usr/lib03:23
moa-nevermind got it03:24
KotCzarnyhehe03:24
moa-i forgot to to that03:24
moa-lol03:24
moa-fuse: device not found, try 'modprobe fuse' first03:27
moa-almost there!03:28
moa-that command doesn't work btw03:28
KotCzarnyyes03:28
KotCzarnybecause you should do insmod /usr/local/lib/modules/fuse.ko03:28
moa-ah yes03:28
KotCzarnybecause you don't have /lib/modules03:28
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moa-and voila it works!03:29
KotCzarnyseriously?03:29
KotCzarny;)03:29
moa-Yup03:29
KotCzarnyno kidding!03:29
moa-many thanks to you03:29
KotCzarnyi though i just put some random files and pretend to make it work!03:30
KotCzarny;)03:30
moa-lol03:30
KotCzarny*thought03:30
moa-yea yea03:30
KotCzarnyThat's the metacrawler, something Nokia added for brain-dead users who cannot remember by themselves where they left their stuff. Unfortunately, metacrawler cannot be turned off safely (Nokia must assume all users are brain-dead), so we're stuck with the crap.03:31
KotCzarny'safely' ?03:31
cLini just changed the name03:33
KotCzarnyi disabled it's starting script in /etc/rc2.d03:33
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johnxKotCzarny, did you have to change anything to make it build?03:41
KotCzarnynope03:41
KotCzarnyonly have to do make install when building fuse03:41
KotCzarnyi was too lazy to fiddle with libfuse03:41
KotCzarnyso sshfs will find lib/includes03:42
johnxgreat...maybe I can just mangle the dependencies on debian's package so we get debs of it :)03:42
KotCzarnyhehe03:42
johnxhey, it worked for cron03:42
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KotCzarnyi bet simply copying debian/ dir from 2006 package would suffice03:42
KotCzarny:>03:42
johnxmaybe03:43
johnxI wonder how much fuse has changed since then...03:43
KotCzarnyremove patches etc03:43
KotCzarnyjust leave descriptive files03:43
KotCzarnyit really builds out-of-the-box03:43
johnxand this is the newest version?03:44
KotCzarnyyes i believe03:44
KotCzarnydownloaded it from sf03:44
KotCzarnyif you're at it, you can probably add other fuse fs'03:50
KotCzarnylike ntfs-3g ;)03:50
johnxonly if it's incredibly easy03:51
KotCzarnycould be handy for folks connecting external drives03:51
KotCzarnyyes03:51
johnxI really have no use for anything except sshfs03:51
KotCzarnyit builds in the same way as sshfs03:51
johnxyeah, but if it actually needs hacking to get it to build a .deb package...03:52
shackanhaha, Darius is back03:55
shackan(the weird guy on the maemo-developers ml)03:55
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johnxhe's on itt too03:56
johnxif you missed his great wimax thread you really need to see it to believe it...03:57
shackanand he writes the same nonsense over and over ?03:57
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KotCzarnywhat nonsense?03:57
johnxusually, different nonsense, but I've read him in both places. 90% sure it's the same guy03:57
shackanjohnx: I'm not on itt, what's the thread called?03:58
johnxlet me find a link03:58
johnxhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10694&highlight=wimax03:59
shackanwtf?03:59
johnxkeep in mind, this was before USB host worked as well03:59
johnxhe lost some credibility after that thread I think :)04:00
johnxshackan, this is what you miss by not reading itt :D04:02
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KotCzarnybtw. he said in the post he wants to buy 2 nokias04:03
KotCzarnyand then people misread it as 'give'04:03
johnxwell the wording of his post didn't help04:04
KotCzarnytrue04:04
KotCzarnybut people got carried away04:04
KotCzarnyby the idea of 'free n810s'04:04
KotCzarny:)04:04
KotCzarnyalso he said wimax hardware will be provided by 3rd parties, not by nokia (or n810 itself)04:05
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KotCzarnyso it could be bt/wifi solution still04:05
johnxright, but at that point in time there was no known way to attach it :)04:05
johnxi guess through wifi...but then why is the N810 necessary?04:05
KotCzarnyhe never mentioned how he was going to attach04:05
johnxyou're reaching pretty far to defend him here...check out the thread where he accuses nokia of distributing viruses04:06
KotCzarnyjohnx: that i do not know04:06
KotCzarny:)04:06
KotCzarnylink?04:06
KotCzarny:>04:06
johnxone sec04:06
KotCzarnywow, i have hw rev. 130204:08
johnxneat, I have 130104:10
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johnxvirus thread: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11800&highlight=virus04:12
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KotCzarnydo you know about changes in hw revs ?04:13
johnxI don't think anyone has found a difference04:13
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johnxand for the N800 I think that 1301 and 1302 are pretty much the only releases "in the wild"04:14
KotCzarny:)04:14
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johnxthere was a guy who had a 1202 and couldn't get it to flash, but that's all I've heard04:16
shackanhahaha04:16
KotCzarnyi agree with a technut comment04:18
KotCzarny:)04:18
johnxI didn't read those threads past the first couple comments...04:18
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=95558&postcount=904:18
KotCzarnythis one04:18
KotCzarny:)04:18
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=95581&postcount=1504:19
KotCzarnyhehe, and this one :>04:19
johnxyeah, he really needs to chill out, make a new account/change his name and email address and come back in a week or two04:19
ProteousNEED 2 810s TO TEST OUT 3GiPHONE NOW, WILL BUY DIRECT FROM NOKIA04:21
KotCzarny:)04:21
KotCzarnythat.. could work!04:22
ProteousI HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM TELLING YOU ALL THIS, I JUST THOUGHT YOU WOULD WANT TO KNOW MY EVERY NOKIA RELATED THOUGHT04:22
unixSnobi went a couple rounds w/ Texrat myself04:22
KotCzarnyNEED FIX CAPS LOCK04:22
Proteousheh04:22
KotCzarny:)04:22
ProteousCAPSLOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME04:22
johnxheh04:22
KotCzarnyCAPS LOCK IS FOR PUSSIES04:22
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KotCzarnylet me get my colors script...04:23
KotCzarny;)04:23
ProteousONLY PUSSIES SAY THAT CAPSLOCK IS ANYTHING BUT AWESOME04:23
KotCzarnywith a figlet04:23
KotCzarny;)04:23
NaviProteous, lul04:23
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KotCzarnyhehe, end of that thread is nice04:24
KotCzarny;)04:24
halleyIf I've removed the gdbm file for maemo-mapper, how can I convince the app to make a new one?04:24
Proteous%rhmf%04:25
halleyIt just starts with a "downloaded maps will not be cached" message rather than make a new file.04:25
KotCzarnywhere was that file?04:26
Proteouscolors04:26
Proteoushmm04:26
KotCzarnyhalley: maybe just select new dir/file ?04:27
KotCzarnyit probably tries to look into inexistent directory04:27
Proteoustest04:27
halleyThe path looked good, but it does look like that worked, KotCzarny.04:27
ProteousI think I have blinking turned off in my client04:27
KotCzarnyprotoeous: FAIL04:28
KotCzarny;)04:28
Proteousit might be blinking for some of you though :P04:28
KotCzarnyblink04:28
KotCzarny:P04:28
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moa-well, after the fight, canola doesn't play very well with sshfs04:33
KotCzarnyhehe04:34
KotCzarnyit tries indexing the files?04:34
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KotCzarny:>04:34
KotCzarnymedialibraries suck!04:34
KotCzarnyget some sane player :)04:34
moa-lol04:34
moa-like ?04:34
KotCzarnythere was one, i don't remember the name04:35
KotCzarnybut supported simple directory browsing04:35
johnxxmms? the player that wouldn't die04:35
KotCzarnyhehe04:35
KotCzarnyis there a package?04:35
johnxyeah, I think so04:35
johnxor a binary .tar.gz or something04:36
KotCzarnyE: Couldn't find package xmms04:36
KotCzarnynot in extras04:36
KotCzarnyi think04:36
johnxgoogle xmms n80004:36
johnxah, from debfarm04:36
KotCzarnyfarm sounds omnious04:37
Proteousheh04:37
johnxthey grow and harvest organic .debs there04:37
* KotCzarny shrugs04:37
johnxno pesticides or growth hormones, guaranteed!04:37
KotCzarnyi won't pollute my nokia with their poison!04:37
johnxwhat, gtk1?04:38
KotCzarny:>04:38
johnxit is a scary thought...04:38
KotCzarnyyup04:38
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KotCzarnyxmms1 is gtk1 based04:38
KotCzarnyhttp://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/2007/04/19/new-maemo-player-catota/04:38
KotCzarnymaybe this one?04:38
johnxhey, that looks nice04:38
KotCzarnylooks like a quick hack04:40
KotCzarnyhttp://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/disq/2007/02/17/a_step_in_the_wrong_direction_the_n800_s04:41
KotCzarnyThis post has 901 feedbacks awaiting moderation...04:41
KotCzarnylol04:41
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KotCzarnyhi texel04:43
KotCzarny:)04:43
texelHey! =o)04:44
KotCzarnywhat's hacking up?04:44
texelMm. Not much.04:44
KotCzarny:)04:44
texelJust bought a DSLR camera yesterday -- having lots of fun with it. =o)04:44
KotCzarnyheh04:44
texelIt's amazing how addictive they really are. =o)04:44
KotCzarnyyou're stealing souls!04:44
texel=op04:44
KotCzarny:)04:45
texelNah. I take photos of landscape and still life mostly.04:45
KotCzarnylandscape are people too!04:45
KotCzarny;)04:45
KotCzarnylandscapes04:45
texelHeh04:46
texelSo. Many. MacPorts. Commits!04:47
KotCzarnymacports?04:47
texelYeah.04:47
* texel is a macports maintainer as well04:47
KotCzarnyoh.04:48
texelhttp://www.macports.org04:48
KotCzarnyi don't use a mac04:48
KotCzarny:)04:48
texelMm.04:49
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KotCzarny'15 GB free. This feels very weird. This device replaces my 8 MB Palm.'04:54
KotCzarnywonders of tech04:55
KotCzarny:>04:55
texelHaha04:55
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johnxreally, I was just reading about MP3 players only being 10 years old...04:55
johnxsomehow they seem like they've been around forever...04:55
KotCzarny:>04:55
texelMm. Yeah, I equate the original iPod as a yellowing plastic relic. =op04:56
KotCzarnyforever and everywhere04:56
KotCzarnyyour teeth can do mp3 playing04:56
texelPretty close. Starting to reach into the era of Mr. Macx, methinks.04:56
KotCzarnyoriginal ipod had (relatively) sharp edges04:56
KotCzarny;)04:56
johnxI'm still waiting for a heads-up-display to become socially acceptable04:57
johnxthe price is almost there...04:57
KotCzarnymr. macx ?04:57
* texel is waiting for it to be integrated into real glasses, maybe with a little AR thrown in.04:57
texelKotCzarny: Manfred Macx, from Robert Stross' /Accelerando/04:58
johnxKotCzarny, Charles Stross' Accelerando04:58
texelCharles?04:58
KotCzarnyi don't watch tv04:58
texelBleh -- shows how much I don't keep an eye on it.04:58
KotCzarny(internet tv too)04:58
texelKotCzarny: It's a book.04:58
KotCzarnyoh04:58
johnxahahhaa04:58
texelIt should be made a movie, though. =o)04:58
johnxtexel, Stross' blog: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/04:59
johnxguess I should have pointed at the FAQ :)05:00
texelHeh05:00
texelYeah.05:00
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texelBah. Too many netsplits.05:03
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KotCzarnyyeah05:03
KotCzarnyon ircnet too05:03
johnxI wonder if it's still the same problem they were having before (ddos attacks)05:04
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KotCzarnykiddos05:04
KotCzarnypf.05:04
KotCzarnythey should be spanked hard05:05
KotCzarnyand allowe 1h internet max/day05:05
KotCzarny:)05:05
KotCzarnyallowed05:05
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texelDarn. Halting State isn't an ebook yet.05:05
texelBleh.05:05
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=81347#post8134705:09
* KotCzarny takes a mental note05:09
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unixSnobsomething to be careful of.. if you don't use a FAT for an SD card, then every read will also be a write (writing when the file was last read)05:11
unixSnoband SD chips have a limited number of updates in their lifetime05:11
KotCzarnyit will?05:11
johnxdoesn't noatime prevent this?05:11
KotCzarnydoes it also apply to a cf cards?05:11
unixSnobyeah, noatime should prevent that05:12
* KotCzarny runs ext3 linux for a quite long time05:12
KotCzarnynoatime everywhere05:12
KotCzarnyunixsnob: df|grep noatime05:12
johnxalso, I'd be much more worried about swap...05:12
KotCzarnycheck if your vfat is noatime05:12
KotCzarny;)05:12
elbyou'll want to mount SD noatime,nomtime05:12
KotCzarnyi mean mount|grep noatime05:12
johnxnot too worried about mtime...05:12
KotCzarnymtime is ok05:13
elbmtime is not necessarily OK05:13
KotCzarnyit's the atime that's the killer05:13
elb(wear leveling improves the situation, when it comes into play)05:13
johnxby the time it's a problem the same size card will cost $505:13
johnxI'll pay $5 to get mtime05:13
KotCzarnythat too05:13
KotCzarnybut data is priceless05:13
KotCzarnysometimes05:13
KotCzarny;)05:13
KotCzarnyif you can't get that one particular photo ;)05:14
johnxbackup, backup, backup...and it's soo easy with sd cards too, just put it in a card reader and rsync05:14
elbyeah, back up flash for sure05:14
elbsince it's unstable as all hell :-P05:14
elb(comparatively)05:14
johnxbackup *everything* especially mobile stuff05:14
unixSnobso back to my point.. I was just pointing out that one need not concern w/ noatime if they use a FAT fs.. it's a lazy solution05:14
elbon the other hand ... you're limited to FAT's rather pathetic feature set and performance05:15
johnxthe failure mode of "too many writes" should be for the overall size to be reduced, not catastrophic failure05:15
elbit is, to a point, I think05:15
KotCzarnyyup05:15
KotCzarnyand ext2/3 handles that05:15
elbbut the device can only remap so many blocks05:15
elbjust like a spinning disk05:15
unixSnobthat would assume all the bad blocks are tracked05:15
unixSnobAnd the first failure would be data loss05:16
elbI think flash has read-after-write, and actually does catch these things05:16
elbat least *some* flash does; I don't know about all05:16
johnxhmm? a failure should only happen on write, if I understand correctly05:16
johnxso something like: write -> fail -> mark bad block and write somewhere else05:16
unixSnobperhaps05:16
elband the hardware *has* to track the bad blocks, because the software sees virtual blocks which bear little relation to reality05:16
elbjohnx: right05:17
unixSnobwell in that case, noatime isn't as important as I had thought05:17
johnxhowever, catastrophic failure in mobile storage devices that are removed/inserted repeatedly is far from uncommon :D05:17
KotCzarnyunix: it is05:17
KotCzarnyyou still don't want to overuse your flash05:18
unixSnobmeh.. I don't care if the size shrinks a little05:18
johnxKotCzarny, it depends on how long you want it to live, and how much you use it05:18
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KotCzarnysmaller probability that you will have to handle failure of some blocks05:18
KotCzarny:)05:19
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unixSnobThe time spent in configuring noatime is probably not worth the tiny amount of space lost years from now05:19
KotCzarnyhehe05:19
johnxit's one word in fstab05:19
johnxor one line in a boot script05:19
KotCzarnystill, idea of writes happening on read is not my favourite05:19
KotCzarny:)05:19
unixSnobwell, I'm not even to the point of editing my fstab on my NIT05:19
KotCzarnyhehe05:20
elbunixSnob: it will not shrink at all, and then it will fail totally05:20
johnxneither am I under ITOS05:20
unixSnobI have yet to even see the command prompt on it05:20
johnxit's waaay to fragile05:20
KotCzarnyit's a linux05:20
johnxKotCzarny, it's a fragile linux05:20
KotCzarnyif it crashes, it's a bug05:20
KotCzarny:)05:20
unixSnobelb - that's not what johnx just concluded05:20
unixSnobso I guess this is unsettled05:20
johnxhmm? concluded?05:20
KotCzarnyi see it as a debian with binary drivers05:20
KotCzarnyand customized ui05:20
johnxKotCzarny, it's not debian...05:20
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unixSnobelb is saying flaws are catastrophic.. y'all just said it's a write failure on a block05:21
KotCzarnyjohnx: in that matter i see ubuntu as a debian too05:21
KotCzarny;)05:21
johnxubuntu is closer to debian than ITOS05:21
KotCzarnyi know it's not a debian05:21
elbunixSnob: the problem is that it interacts with things like wear leveling05:21
johnxright, but I don't even consider it as a debian-like thing any more05:21
KotCzarny:)05:21
elbunixSnob: the device can only handle so many bad blocks, before its firmware fails, basically05:21
johnxit acts too differently05:21
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KotCzarnyi have never played with debian so long to tell the difference05:22
unixSnobthis is the 1st time I hear the term wear leveling05:22
KotCzarnyso bear with my ignorance ;)05:22
KotCzarnyunixsnob: lol05:22
unixSnobSo how does atime become catastrophic?05:22
unixSnobif it's enabled, that is05:22
KotCzarnyit's not visible on the outside05:22
unixSnobSo it can't just mark the block as unwritable, and stop using it?05:22
texeljohnx: 100% agree.05:22
KotCzarnycard firmware does it internally05:23
KotCzarnythink of it as a harddisk spare sectors05:23
KotCzarnyand s.m.a.r.t.05:23
texelITOS is far too... weird. It's like a version of Linux that has apt-get and dpkg bolted on.05:23
johnxtexel, exactly05:23
unixSnobAre you saying it'll run out of spares, and become a catastrophy05:23
KotCzarnyunix: but only in a particular 4mb 'sector'05:23
KotCzarnyat least on sandisk05:23
unixSnobI would think it would just shrink once it runs out of spares05:23
texelunixSnob: As time goes on, the fuses in the flash will wear out and fail to repair themselves when you need to clear a bit.05:24
johnxHaving done a web kiosk system based on Debian I know firsthand how easy it is to stray from "the debian way" when you're running out of flash space...05:24
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texelSD cards contain a reserved set of bits that can be used later on when bits fail.05:24
KotCzarnyunixsnob: http://www.sandisk.com/Assets/File/OEM/WhitePapersAndBrochures/RS-MMC/WPaperWearLevelv1.0.pdf05:24
KotCzarnyread from the first hand05:24
KotCzarny:>05:24
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unixSnobtexel - i understand that.. but I don't see why it would be catastrophic05:25
texeljohnx: Yeah... =o)05:25
johnx"well, just a little change here will save me 5MB, and who really needs thing zyz anyways...?"05:25
elbunixSnob: the firmware can't handle it05:25
texelI had to take Slackware at one point and make it client-server on one server zip disk and several client disks.05:25
elbunixSnob: look at it this way ... you have an X block device.  in reality, it has X + k blocks on it05:25
texelHad to be VERY picky as to how things were put on that thing.05:25
texelBy the time I was done, it was nothing like Slackware. =op05:26
KotCzarny:>05:26
elbunixSnob: as blocks go bad, they are replaced with the k spares, and there is enough bookkeeping on the device to handle k replacements05:26
unixSnobright05:26
elbunixSnob: on the k + 1st failure ... bookkeeping runs out, and the device  becomes unreliable05:26
KotCzarnyelb: one correction05:26
KotCzarnyit's made in 'sectors' of 4mb05:26
KotCzarnyso EACH such sector has it's spare blocks05:26
KotCzarnyand can't use spares from others05:26
unixSnobI would have thought it would just shrink at k+1 failures05:26
elbit can't shrink05:27
elbthe firmware can't handle it05:27
unixSnobok05:27
unixSnoband the filesystem doesn't handle it?05:27
johnxelb, thanks for the info. :D05:27
elband it can't be corrected on the host, because blocks are randomly mapped, with the mapping changing on each write05:27
elb("wear leveling")05:27
KotCzarnyfilesystem sees series of badblocks05:27
KotCzarnywhat it does it's up to fs05:27
elbas KotCzarny points out, the real details are somewhat more complicated05:27
KotCzarny:)05:27
johnxKotCzarny, is that the wear leveling scheme that everything uses?05:27
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elbbut the bottom line is that flash memory is much more complicated than a rotating disk05:27
KotCzarnyjohnx: probably it's updated few times05:28
KotCzarnywpaper is from ~200005:28
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KotCzarnybut gives an idea how it can be done05:28
elb(note that modern rotating disks have some similar features, such as hardware block replacement, etc. -- but their overflow bad blocks are stable, and can be mapped out by the software)05:28
elbjohnx: in reality, every Flash technology is slightly different05:28
KotCzarnyelb: isn't that firmware does it too on hdds?05:29
elbI have no idea what SD/MiniSD actaully do in detail, or even if the standard has any requirements for how they handle such things05:29
KotCzarnyReallocated_Event_Count, Current_Pending_Sector, Reallocated_Sector_Ct05:29
elbKotCzarny: yeah, the firmware can map out bad blocks up to a point05:29
elbthat's an artifact of the fact that disk geometry is almost never related to logical geometry any mor05:30
elbe05:30
unixSnobSo the mapping table of bad blocks is constrained by k?05:30
elbso you wind up with sectors which are unaddressable anyway05:30
elbunixSnob: right05:30
KotCzarnyunixsnob: check the capacity of your card05:30
unixSnobAll they had to do is make the table a little larger, and problem nearly solved05:30
elb(which is one reason that performance of old disks really does degrade in some instances)05:30
KotCzarnyflash chips are probably made in sizes that are powers of 205:30
KotCzarnyand actually you see a number a little different05:30
elbunixSnob: there is a tradeoff between write resiliance and wasted space ... they chose a point in that tradeoff, and simply gave you a device of declared size with a probable number of writes05:31
elbunixSnob: if you make the device "smaller", you can increase the writes05:31
* unixSnob thinks about running SpinRite on SD chips05:31
KotCzarnyunixsnob: bad idea05:31
KotCzarny:)05:31
unixSnobyeah, I was only half serious05:32
KotCzarnybut could work to a point05:32
unixSnobI have some 16MB chips I could sacrifice05:32
KotCzarnyie. refreshing content05:32
KotCzarnybut running badblocks -n would do the same05:33
KotCzarny:)05:33
elbdon't flash chips auto-refresh these days?05:33
elb(I don't know)05:33
KotCzarnyi don't know05:33
KotCzarnybut probably not05:33
johnxrefresh?05:33
KotCzarnyie. there's 'data retention' spec usually05:33
johnxhmm?05:33
elbjohnx: flash is only quasi-stable05:33
elbjohnx: it will eventually lose data, if you just leave it unpowered and untouched05:34
johnxI thought the retention spec was like 10years+05:34
KotCzarnyyes05:34
elbdepends on the device05:34
KotCzarnybut after 10 years your photos can go buh-bay05:34
elbnote that magnetic media is the same way05:34
KotCzarny:)05:34
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KotCzarnyor 905:34
KotCzarnyor 1205:34
KotCzarnyit's just an estimate05:34
elbyeah, all of these things are probabilities05:34
elb10 years is probably like the 50% point or something05:34
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unixSnob10 yrs is pretty bad05:35
elbwith Flash, you know that it *will*, eventually, be all 1s05:35
KotCzarnynot actually05:35
johnxI think the test only ran for 10 years05:35
KotCzarnyin 10 years you will buy yourself much larger card05:35
elbwith magnetic media, it will eventually be totally random ;-)05:35
KotCzarnyand copy all data to it05:35
unixSnobI read an article talking about microfiche being superior to all digital forms of archiving05:35
KotCzarnyand forget about old one05:35
johnxflash around here barely has time to cool off from use... :)05:35
unixSnobWhich is why microfiche is still used.. nothing outlasts film05:36
KotCzarnyjust remember what have you got 1-3 years ago05:36
KotCzarny;)05:36
johnxjust store the index on a flash card!05:36
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KotCzarnyand film doesn't need electricity to be accesible05:36
KotCzarny;)05:36
elbunixSnob: film actually decays quite rapidly, too, in the big scheme of things05:36
KotCzarnyand complicated hardware05:37
johnxto paraphrase roughly, "real men don't do backups, they just upload to public ftp and let the world mirror it"05:37
elbit just takes much longer to decay in the presence of background EM05:37
unixSnobStanford still uses microfiche05:37
elbbut ... leave it out in the light for a year or wo05:37
elbtwo05:37
KotCzarny:)05:37
KotCzarnyhow about radiation?05:37
elbI'm not sure how UV-resistant microfiche is, but I'm betting it's not good05:37
KotCzarnybut that will be bad to everything anyway05:37
johnxmeh, keeping your stuff in one storage format is never a good idea05:38
KotCzarny:)05:38
johnxsome formats are just worse ideas than others05:38
unixSnobfilm is good in damp, molding environments05:38
KotCzarnykeeping in separate places creates a mess05:38
elbbasically, yeah05:38
KotCzarny:>05:38
elbit's all relative05:38
johnxKotCzarny, do you care about your data or its organization? (pick one)05:39
unixSnobnot sure how equal things are in the hot, radiation smothered environment05:39
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KotCzarny:)05:39
KotCzarnyi usually trust harddrives05:39
KotCzarnyas long they are not overused05:39
KotCzarny:)05:39
elboh man05:40
unixSnobfolks pull old war negatives out of moldy basements and everything is still good, from what I hear05:40
elbhard disks are horribly unreliable05:40
elbunixSnob: that depends on a LOT of factors05:40
KotCzarnyelb: i find seagate barracudas iv quite nice05:40
johnxyour choice, but it's russian roulette with any one storage format05:40
elbnegatives are relatively easy to destroy05:40
elbparticularly old cellulose negatives05:40
KotCzarnyunixsnob: but do you know what happens afterwards?05:41
KotCzarnyafter contact with air?05:41
KotCzarny:)05:41
elbyeah, and oxygen is a stone bitch05:41
elb;-)05:41
unixSnobWell, the govs bureau of archives chose to stay w/ microfiche for a reason05:41
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elbright -- because it's all relative05:41
KotCzarnyand because some people never change?05:42
KotCzarny;)05:42
elbif you keep microfiche out of the light, cool, and humidity-controlled, it lasts a long time05:42
elbso do reel-to-reel tapes ;-)05:42
KotCzarnyand don't trust all that shiny thingies05:42
johnxpeople still manage to make a good case for magnetic tape, but it's easier to keep redundant backups on different hard disks05:42
unixSnobreel-to-reels have to be baked after so much time05:42
elbjohnx: yes, but magnetic tape is *far* more stable05:42
elband isn't hooked to a power source ;-)05:42
unixSnobbut perhaps that's because the humidity isn't optimum05:42
johnxright, but it's easier/cheaper to keep mulitple online copies05:43
johnxin different locations05:43
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KotCzarnyunixsnob: some talk about wear leveling: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25832#post2583205:43
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dererkHi guys :D05:44
johnxhello05:44
unixSnobwhat's interesting about that thread is fanoush mentions that FAT is less safe, because the fat table is updated in the same place every time05:45
dererkI managed to get a Bluetooth keyboard for my N770 running HE200805:45
KotCzarnyunixsnob: i believe he was talking about cameras etc05:46
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dererkBut I can't get it run, as It requires a validation key to be input in the other Bluetooth side05:46
johnxdererk, don't you just type the key in?05:46
unixSnobhe was talking about mmc cards05:47
KotCzarnysd is pretty the same as sd05:47
KotCzarnyerm, as mmc05:47
unixSnobah, nevermind.. wear leveling prevents that.. I spoke too soon05:47
dererkjohnx, I typed about 100x and hitted enter, but nothing happens on the box05:47
KotCzarnydererk: do you have some program open that reacts to keys?05:48
johnxdererk, so it paired? or didn't pair?05:48
dererkKotCzarny, yes, 'notes'05:48
KotCzarnyhum05:48
dererkjohnx, didn't, but I guess it's beacose it timed out05:48
dererk:/05:49
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johnxdererk, have you paired it successfully in 2007HE or OS2006?05:49
unixSnobwhat rude people in #macosx.. I describe a mac problem, and totally irrelevant to the problem, they ask "what kind of mac do you have".. well you can probably guess the rest05:49
johnxmade fun of you for having an old mac?05:50
KotCzarny:>05:50
dererkjohnx, I've just got it, didn't tryed in anything besides 2008HE05:50
KotCzarnyhow old?05:50
unixSnobno.. it's like "oh, you have a hackintosh.. we don't support hackintosh's"05:50
KotCzarnywhat's a hackintosh?05:50
Tama^3lol05:50
unixSnobI've seen hackintosh users get the same treatment in forums05:50
* KotCzarny had slackintosh05:50
Tama^3"they have paid more so should you"05:50
KotCzarny:)05:50
Tama^3xD05:51
unixSnobthey tried to tell me it was rules not to talking about it05:51
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johnxdererk, ah, from what I understand you type the key/pin on the tablet like 0000, then hit 0000 on the keyboard and hit enter05:51
KotCzarnylol05:51
unixSnobBut someone removed the rule at some point.. but they enforced it anyway05:51
johnxit can be different from keyboard to keyboard05:51
KotCzarnyunixsnob: remove 'snob' from you nick then05:51
KotCzarnyif you don't like snobbish behaviour05:51
Tama^3mac it's a religion05:51
KotCzarny;)05:51
dererkjohnx, yes, I fully agree05:52
unixSnobnot sure that would help w/ this group05:52
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dererkjohnx, I'm going to search anything like my problem on the net05:52
KotCzarnystill, may help with others ;)05:52
dererkjohnx, and then came back if I got no luck05:52
johnxdererk, check on internettablettalk.com/forums for threads about your model of keyboard05:52
johnxlikely someone already solved the problem :)05:52
unixSnobmakes me want to wait for the slimeball who cornered me to come up with a problem.. so I could say "i know the answer, but I only help hackintosh users"05:53
dererkjohnx, I will, thanks :)05:53
unixSnob"it's my policy" i'll say05:53
KotCzarnyunixsnob: bad idea05:53
KotCzarny:)05:53
johnxKotCzarny, well, if his goal is to reduce the channel to a flame war, then it would probably work05:54
unixSnobxD05:54
KotCzarny:>05:54
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KotCzarnyhatin' is usually counterproductive05:54
unixSnobThe thing is, mac users identify their equipment by /color/05:55
unixSnobSo when they ask what kind of mac I have, i say beige05:55
unixSnobwhat gave me away was I said my video card was AGP when they grilled me on that05:55
unixSnobguess I need to get a good cover story when I'm in there05:56
elbnot to mention the beige macs won't run recent OSX ;-)05:56
johnxand ubuntu users identify their distro by animal names or adjectives...everyone is weird05:56
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* KotCzarny slacks05:56
unixSnobactually, I'm running jaguar on a true beige mac05:56
unixSnobbut it took some hacking to get it on there05:56
elbyeah, they won't support that, either ;-)05:57
unixSnobThat's a G3 w/ 128 MB ram05:57
* KotCzarny has a g3 w/ 768 mb05:57
KotCzarnywhat i like in macs is plentiness of ram slots05:57
KotCzarny:)05:57
unixSnobi'll tell them I bought my osx jaguar license05:57
unixSnobwhat pisses me off about the old macs was the height of the ram chips was limited by the chassis!05:58
unixSnobSo I could only use low-profile simms, or grind the case down05:58
johnxI want one of the older imacs that had a half-sphere base...those looked awesome, but they're still expensive05:58
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dererkfuck me05:58
dererkjohnx, I got it running05:58
dererk:D05:58
unixSnobnot sure what you mean by half spare05:58
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johnxdererk, had to type the key on the keyboard?05:58
dererkyes, but the enter key was REALLY strange05:59
elbthe desk lamp imacs05:59
KotCzarny:)05:59
johnxelb, yeah, those05:59
dererkthis keyboard has 2 FN keys05:59
dererkit was shift+fn blue+fn green+ enter05:59
johnxwow, that makes it twice as awesome06:00
unixSnobah, yeah, nice looking case style06:00
johnxI wonder if I'm the only one who thinks a desk-lamp mac would make a great case mod project for a mac mini or a mini-itx system...06:00
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KotCzarnyor as a n8x0 display06:01
KotCzarny;)06:01
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unixSnobAsus is making bamboo cases -> http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/03/10/asus.bamboo.computers/06:24
unixSnobwhere can I get my bamboo NIT chassis?06:24
KotCzarnymake one06:24
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1644507:11
KotCzarnyhehe07:11
unixSnobhas anyone tried to see if the browser in the NIT works well in a dd-wrt config page?07:11
KotCzarnyyou mean webif^2 ?07:11
KotCzarnyor something else?07:11
unixSnoband thus w/ wi-vix07:11
unixSnobs/vix/vis/07:12
infobotunixSnob meant: and thus w/ wi-vis07:12
unixSnobnot sure.. I don't know yet how to know what app I'm running07:12
unixSnobthere is no About menu choice07:12
KotCzarny:)07:12
unixSnoband all these apps are named generically07:12
KotCzarnyhttp://wiki.x-wrt.org/index.php/White_Russian_Presentation07:13
unixSnobx-wrt isn't the same as dd-wrt, i don't think07:13
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cLinanyone use kagu media player?07:19
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KotCzarnyre07:23
cLindamn i wished canola worked, its the only interface i can use while on the road, the others have too small buttons07:25
* texel wishes canola would pick up MP3s and OGGs other than the default system ones... O.o07:26
texelWhich brings up a rather interesting question: does canola use metacrawler at all?07:26
KotCzarnymedialibraries suck!07:26
texels/metacrawler/metalayer-crawler/07:26
infobottexel meant: Which brings up a rather interesting question: does canola use metalayer-crawler at all?07:26
cLinthey dont when you drive07:26
texelEh.07:27
texelDepends on how your personal tastes are.07:27
cLin?07:27
texelQuite frankly, I'd rather have the software organize my music for me rather than do it all by hand.07:27
texelSome people don't like libraries -- I was one of them for the longest time.07:28
cLini tried ukmp and kagu. ukmp, i dont like how the shuffling works, plus its hard to see the title of the song07:28
cLinkagu, i hate making playlsit, i just need a shuffle all option07:28
texelThen I got really busy and didn't have /time/ to be crazy particular to maintain the organization of my music myself.07:28
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cLinactually, xmms was nice, just the always on top bug bothered me07:29
KotCzarnytexel: it's easy07:29
KotCzarnysimply don't put all mp3s in one dir07:29
KotCzarny;)07:29
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KotCzarnyclin: it can be a feature ;)07:30
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cLinwhich one?07:30
KotCzarnyalways on top07:30
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cLinno its not07:30
cLini thought so too07:30
cLinbut turning it on or off does nothing07:31
cLinits a bug i think07:31
KotCzarnyminimization doesn't work?07:31
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cLinthats a bug too07:31
cLinit minimizes to nowhere07:31
cLinhaha07:31
KotCzarnyhildonization07:31
KotCzarnysimple to fix07:31
cLinmaybe for you :P07:32
KotCzarnysometimes it's enough to create xmms.desktop file07:32
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KotCzarnyno recompiling necessary07:32
KotCzarny:P07:32
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KotCzarnyhttp://gizmodo.com/351518/vista-box-needs-instructions-to-open07:40
KotCzarnylol07:40
cLinlol07:40
KotCzarnyhttp://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=8681607:42
KotCzarnylol207:42
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cLinlol07:46
cLinwhy are people so stupid :(07:46
KotCzarnythat's ok, as long they can be milked07:46
KotCzarnyit's even better then07:46
unixSnobnow whenever someone asks for help in #macosx, I say.. "that depends.. are you running a hackintosh.. we can only answer your problem if you're not running hackintosh"07:55
unixSnobI need a bot to do that for me07:55
KotCzarnypf.07:55
unixSnobjust to rub that shit in07:55
KotCzarnywon't work07:55
KotCzarnyand you will get banned07:55
KotCzarny:>07:56
unixSnobwhy should I get banned?  I'm making sure the rules are being followed, right ;)07:56
Tama^3it's your fault, your actions made you impure and for that you shall pay xD07:56
unixSnobI'm on the right side of the rules ;)07:56
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unixSnobI'll get the bot to say "/me writes from his hackintosh" before I quote the rule xD07:58
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lopzbye07:59
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ds3streaming TV on the N800 is so neat08:04
KotCzarnyand eats your battery like crazy08:04
ds3don't matter... worse case, I'll put my 12V 17AH battery in a backpack and.... :)08:05
KotCzarny:)08:05
ds3only way it could be better is if it had NTSC/TV out08:06
KotCzarnyyeah, 'look at all this device features! and how small it is! - what do you have in that backpack? - a battery for it'08:06
KotCzarny:)08:06
ds3it looks like I can do at least 1 to 1.5 hours per charge08:07
KotCzarnymore08:07
ds3and with an external pack the size of the 800, it'll double that08:08
KotCzarnymore08:08
KotCzarny:)08:08
ds3so it isn't that horrible08:08
KotCzarnyinternal batt is 3.7V 1.5Ah08:08
KotCzarny3xAA will give you additional 2.5-3Ah08:08
KotCzarny:)08:08
ds3those small 2.5" LCDs TV  with 4AA's don't last that long either08:08
ds3not really unless, alkalines have too high of an internal resistance to give you that full charge08:09
KotCzarnynot alkalines08:09
KotCzarnyrechargeable08:09
KotCzarnyakkus08:09
ds3NiMHs are about 2.2Ah08:09
KotCzarny:)08:09
KotCzarnymore08:09
KotCzarnyi have bough 2.5Ah few months ago in riteaid08:10
KotCzarny:)08:10
ds3that's labeled, measure it!08:10
KotCzarnyi agree08:10
KotCzarny:)08:10
KotCzarnybut those were duracells08:10
ds3also depends on your charger but regardless08:10
KotCzarnyso i suspect nothing more than 10% off08:10
ds32.5 - 0.25 = 2.25Ah... didn't I say about 2.2Ah? :)08:11
KotCzarnybut still, 2.2Ah is ~1.5 more than internal battery08:11
ds3but then you loose another 10% or so going through the charger circuit08:12
KotCzarnyand 3xAA isn't too big physically08:12
ds33xAA can't charge directly, you'll have to step it up to 5.5V so that's another 10% there08:12
KotCzarnyjust add fourth then08:12
KotCzarny:)08:12
ds3all considered, it is about the capacity of the internal cell08:12
KotCzarnyso no stepping up08:13
ds34.8V won't charge, I tried08:13
KotCzarnyhum?08:13
KotCzarnyweird08:13
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ds3seem to be common to most "recent" Nokia devices08:13
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ds35xAA's might do it but donno what's the upper tolerance08:14
sxpertwierd... 1 Li-ion cell is 3.7v08:14
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sxpertor mebbe it's 2 cells in series, which would be 7.4v08:14
KotCzarnymay be some control circuit?08:15
KotCzarnysxpert: charger is 5V08:15
KotCzarny(rated)08:15
ds3think so. plugging in 5V causes it to see a charger but then it puts up a message saying "Not Charging"08:15
sxpertit's not exactly 5.08:15
KotCzarnyi know08:15
sxpertit's more like 5.1 our 5.208:15
sxpertor something08:16
ds3for me the threshold seems to be 5.5V08:16
KotCzarnyanyone with variable dc supply?08:16
KotCzarny:>08:16
sxpertthen putting in 6 volts should do08:16
ds3should if it doesn't burn out ;)08:16
KotCzarnyand that's a possibility..08:17
Tama^3there are specs for the charging voltage available from Nokia08:17
ds3Tama^3: got link?08:17
Tama^3will not be easy to find it again, I will try. hold on08:18
ds3didn't think they made that info public08:18
sxpertalternatively, you can hack up a car charger :-)08:19
ds3assuming it works08:19
ds3the dollar store Nokia chargers don't charge08:19
sxperthopefully, they'll switch to USB charging at some point08:19
* KotCzarny imagines connecting 2 nokias together08:20
KotCzarny'hey, you're sucking my battery!'08:20
KotCzarny;)08:20
ds3a direct solar charger or a crank charger would be nice08:21
sxpertI believe there are chinese crank or solar chargers for nokia phones...08:21
ds3the lack of transreflective LCD does hamper the solar charging a bit :/08:22
sxperthaha... integrating the charger in the screen. now that's an idea08:23
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ds3no, using a solar charger means you have to be outside...08:23
KotCzarnyds3: n810 has transreflective lcd08:23
ds3KotCzarny: i am not giving up my 2 full size SD slots!08:23
KotCzarny:>08:23
KotCzarnyi know08:23
KotCzarnyit's inferios to n80008:24
KotCzarnyinferior08:24
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* sxpert likes the 810 better08:24
Tama^3cannot find it arrgh08:24
sxpertdoesn't care much for 2 slots anyways08:25
KotCzarnyalso from what i have read n810 screen isn't that nice in the sun08:25
ds3i really need to finish up setting up printing08:25
ds3Tama^3: thanks for trying08:25
KotCzarnyand without sun the colors are 'washed'08:25
sxpertKotCzarny, works for me in the car08:25
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ds3wonder if there is a hack for microb to add a printing option...08:25
KotCzarnyprobably08:25
KotCzarny:)08:25
KotCzarnytried pressing ctrl-p ?08:25
KotCzarny:)08:25
pupniki really hate the maemo/hildon file chooser08:25
cLinKotCzarny: ho do you add Alt to the list of shortcuts on xterm?08:26
pupniktakes way too long to build  list of subdirectory entries08:26
cLini tried putting in Alt as the value but it didn't work08:26
sxperthmmm... still can't post stuff from a bluetooth phone to a web site...08:26
unixSnobTama, just curious about that "3" in your handle.. what does that mean?08:26
sxpertthat bug is erh, 2 years old08:26
sxpertgives some stupid obex error of some kind08:27
KotCzarnyclin: i don't use xterm08:27
cLinbah08:27
KotCzarny..yet08:27
KotCzarny:)08:27
Tama^3unixSnob: nothing Tama was already taken, I registered Tama^2 and tama^3 is a backup08:27
unixSnobah08:27
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unixSnobI guess I'm just a perv.. I thought that was code for 'i have big tits'  sorry, no offense08:28
KotCzarnythat nokia's charger issue is a drag08:28
Tama^3lol, none taken08:28
ds3checked in case you were right... no, ctrl-p does not do it :P08:28
KotCzarnythey did it on purpose :/08:28
KotCzarnyds3: hack in opera?08:29
KotCzarny:)08:29
ds3how does opera help?08:29
KotCzarnyalso how did you do ctrl-p ?08:29
ds3the obvious way :P08:29
KotCzarnyexternal kb?08:30
KotCzarny:)08:30
ds3of course08:30
KotCzarnyhah.08:30
ds3it would be so nice to have a little portable printer to print coupons from website while at the store08:31
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KotCzarnyds3: btw. is any kind of a printing supported?08:33
KotCzarny:>08:33
KotCzarnyi believe lp(r) is not installed08:33
ds3KotCzarny: I just need it to be able to generate a PS file08:33
ds3got ghostscript installed so it should just be a matter of doing something like gs -sOuputFile=/dev/ttyUSB0 -sDEVICE=foo /tmp/file.ps08:34
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1620108:37
KotCzarnynice08:37
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doc|homewell I'll be damned08:37
* doc|home did not know those08:37
* KotCzarny too08:37
* Tama^3 tries them out immediately08:38
pupnikheh, i bet like < 1% of tablet users know that08:38
unixSnobthat could be annoying08:38
unixSnobwhat if you realize you didn't want to tap a letter.. dragging it far is an intuitive way to ditch it08:39
KotCzarnyunixsnob: how many times have you did that?08:39
KotCzarnyie. happened to you?08:39
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doc|homeby the way, I talked to some plastics people about getting styluses made. You're looking at $1000+ just to have a mould made08:40
doc|homewell, between one and two08:40
unixSnobnot yet..  but I do like the feature08:40
KotCzarnyhuh08:40
unixSnobYou really have to drag far to get the behavior08:40
KotCzarnydoc: i'v got my stylus back, fortunatelly08:41
ds3doc|home: what do you want to do that is different?08:41
doc|homeds3: actually acquire styluses :)08:41
KotCzarny:)08:41
ds3okay08:41
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doc|homethey're practically impossible to get08:41
doc|homein north america anyway08:41
ds3you need one that fits the holder? cuz I saw some at the dollar store08:42
KotCzarnyfits and locks there08:42
KotCzarny:)08:42
doc|homeds3: that fit?08:42
mbufany pymaemo, pygst developers here? does Example 2.1 need any modification before it can be played on OS20007?  http://pygstdocs.berlios.de/pygst-tutorial/playbin.html08:42
KotCzarnyit's no fun losing them again :>08:42
ds3doc|home: fit in the holder08:42
doc|homeds3: right, and actually lock in?08:42
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mbuf*OS200708:43
doc|homeI lost one and the dog chewed another, so I filed that one down. It's usable but falls out :/08:43
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KotCzarnydoc: but after you got the mould it would be cheap?08:43
doc|homeKotCzarny: yeah, but hardly worth it. Not sure I'd get my money back08:44
ds3for just a one or two off, you can probally get them made for around $100-$200 a each..cheaper then a mould08:44
doc|homeI ain't paying a grand for a couple of styluses :)08:44
KotCzarnyyou need to find 99 people then08:44
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KotCzarny:>08:44
KotCzarny10$ per stylus isn't that bad08:44
ds3or you can just carry one of those multipens with a stylus08:44
KotCzarny200$ will get you used n80008:45
KotCzarnywith 2 styluses08:45
KotCzarny;)08:45
doc|homeheh08:45
ds3but for $200, it can be custom made, engraved with your name :)08:45
doc|homeof silver08:46
KotCzarnyor titan08:46
doc|homepure .999 silver08:46
doc|homeman, how pissed would you be losing that?08:46
unixSnobor $1600 would get you a new n80008:46
KotCzarnydoc: not much08:46
KotCzarnyit's still cheap08:46
KotCzarnybut gold..08:46
unixSnobKot- actually a new n800 is $190 (mine was)08:46
KotCzarnyunix: mine was 150$08:47
KotCzarny:)08:47
doc|homeheh08:47
unixSnobdoh!08:47
unixSnobwhere?08:47
KotCzarny(:08:47
KotCzarnyon craiglist08:47
KotCzarnyand i got it with screen protector (and 9 of them unused)08:47
KotCzarnyand wiping cloth08:47
KotCzarny:>08:48
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* unixSnob heads to craigslist to see how many are priced like that08:49
unixSnob$250 looks like the norm on craigslist08:50
KotCzarnyyeah, but often it's a matter of luck08:50
KotCzarnyor just haggling08:50
unixSnobdamn i gotta get to sleep.  this IRC is responsible for keeping me up till 2am.. gotta control that08:52
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KotCzarny:)08:52
KotCzarnycut you network line?08:52
liriwhere did you get an n800 for $150/$190?08:52
unixSnobI should be able to control this.. I've just been off irc for a decade, and just got on again this past month08:52
KotCzarnyliri: on craiglist08:52
KotCzarnyand 190 are on froogle08:53
unixSnobFor $190, I went to macmall.com08:53
unixSnobBut the macmall price fluctuates08:53
unixSnobThe shelf price has been up and down.. it's like they can't decide whether to treat it as obsolete or not08:53
unixSnobSince n810 is not a direct upgrade08:54
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.shopstormcomputer.com/ssproduct.asp?pf_id=101084690508:55
unixSnobu folks know how long till the wifi goes to sleep?  does wifi sleep when the lcd does?08:55
liriahh nice08:55
KotCzarnyhere you have one for 18608:55
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liriwhy do they call it a navigation kit?08:55
KotCzarnyunix: it sleeps when there's no data moving over it08:55
KotCzarnyerm08:55
KotCzarnysorry08:55
KotCzarnywrong link08:55
KotCzarny:)08:55
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liriheh08:55
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.superdigitalmedia.com/product_info.php?products_id=215608:56
KotCzarnyhere's one for 18108:56
KotCzarny17108:56
KotCzarnybut they don't list if it's in stock08:56
KotCzarnyA minimum order amount of $USD 500 is required in order to checkout.08:57
KotCzarnylol08:57
KotCzarnymadness08:57
KotCzarnybut i guess one can take 3 of them08:57
KotCzarnyand simply sell them off08:57
KotCzarny;)08:57
doc|homethat site looks like a scam08:58
KotCzarnyprobably08:59
KotCzarnythat's why i like CL08:59
KotCzarny:)08:59
doc|homeCL?08:59
KotCzarnycraigslist08:59
doc|homeah08:59
doc|homewell this is no good, I seem to have lost an email :(09:00
KotCzarnyno backup in sent/trash ?09:00
doc|homeseems not :/09:01
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doc|homeCanon EOS 40D SLR Digital Camera Body Only    $828.0009:03
doc|homethere is zero chance of that site being legit09:03
KotCzarnyhehe09:03
KotCzarnybtw. 200-250 seems to be the shopping mall price for a n80009:04
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.overstockdealz.com/products.asp?id=N800&referer=google09:05
KotCzarnyhere's one for 21009:06
doc|homeI got mine for 260 CAD or so09:06
doc|homeand that was after price matching09:07
KotCzarnyi have stalked CL for a few months09:07
KotCzarnyoriginally wanted any of them, even 77009:07
KotCzarny:>09:07
KotCzarnybut then prices for n800 have fallen09:08
KotCzarny:>09:08
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liriI'm wondering09:08
liriwhat do you use the n800 for mainly?09:09
KotCzarnyfun09:09
doc|homeliri: sitting in a cafe reading news articles after work. Reading emails sometimes. It has a funky mpd client which, when mpd hasn't shat itself, is useful for when I'm in bed and don't want to get out. And mahjong :o09:10
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liriare you using it more for home-use or do you find it useful on the road as well? (I'm saying on the road cause in active use it only lasts 3 hours which isn't a whole lot)09:10
liriwhat's mpd doc?09:10
doc|homeyeah, that's one thing I wish it had, usb charging :/09:10
doc|homeliri: media player daemon. Means I can control my computer's music from the n80009:11
liriahh09:11
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liriI'm actually more excited about the possibility of developing some pygtk apps for it09:12
lirimore than anything else09:12
KotCzarny:)09:13
KotCzarnyas i said 'fun factor'09:13
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liriyeah09:13
lirithough I'm wondering how relatively easy it would be to get started with some nice apps09:13
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christefanohas anyone seen their Airport Extremes die on a regular basis when an N8x0 starts using the network?09:54
mbufhow to fix this error on N800? http://pastebin.ca/93786009:55
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KotCzarnymbus: basically it says you it has alread parts of it installed10:00
KotCzarnybut i don't know..10:01
mbufKotCzarny, it conflicts with some plugins-bad, i think?10:01
mbufKotCzarny, but, if i apt-get remove it, it says, it is not installed!10:02
KotCzarnyW: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems10:02
KotCzarny:)10:02
KotCzarnytry running apt-get update10:02
mbufKotCzarny, have done that many a time now10:03
KotCzarnyhum10:03
mbufKotCzarny, do you use OS2007?10:03
KotCzarnynope, 200810:03
mbufKotCzarny, ohh, is it possible for you test this Example 2.1, and see if it works or not? http://pygstdocs.berlios.de/pygst-tutorial/playbin.html10:04
KotCzarnyisn't 2007 a 'bora' ?10:04
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KotCzarnyok, i'm off to sleep10:07
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mbufKotCzarny, yes, 2007 is Bora10:18
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KotCzarnyso why are you using repo for mistral?10:19
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lardmanmorning10:35
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JaffaMorning, all10:46
Spakmanhello10:47
solmumahamorning10:47
lardmanjohnx: I fear the card is pretty knackered, using dd (with sync, notrunc, etc.) or ddrescue produces a file which is ~750Mb. The original one I dd'd (with no options) was closer to 900Mb10:50
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aquatixmorning all10:59
solmumahadoes os2008 use hal to mount mass-storage devices?11:02
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christefanois there a version of abiword for OS 2008?11:34
christefanothe one I found won't install, so I assume it's for OS 2007 or earlier11:35
christefanohttp://www.abisource.com/downloads/abiword/2.3.4/Linux/Maemo/abiword_2.3.4-1maemo1_arm.deb11:35
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solmumahantfs read/write works nicely, just need to make the os mount it automatically11:40
hugolpHi, my N800 doesnt connect to my Ericsson k800i through bluetooth11:40
hugolpanyone know where I should look to solve it?11:41
timelythe future11:42
* timely sees it working in +3yrs11:42
timelyhrm, not sure how good my distance vision is, in fact, i need glasses :)11:42
timelyalternatively, you could grab the bluez source code and hack it until it works :)11:42
lardmanhugolp: using gnokii?11:43
lardmanseems ui responsiveness is a big thing atm11:43
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lardmanI'm not too bothered about app startup time (it's good enough), but the web browser starts up and just sits there apparently doing nothing; that annoys me11:44
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hugolplardman:  using the N800 bluetooth config application11:49
hugolpdont know whats gnokii11:49
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timelylardman: the web browser has two pieces11:52
timelythe ui which is very fast to load, and gecko, which is not as fast (by far)11:52
timelyatm they're not really parallelized, hopefully they will be11:52
lardmanhugolp: ah ok, was wondering if it was bluetooth related or the protocol ontop to do things (send sms, etc.)11:54
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lardmantimely: all it needs is a notification saying that it's doing something (IMO)11:54
timelylardman: um, i thought it had a useless one "updating"11:55
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lardmanhmm, if so it must be displayed quite late11:55
lardmanI'll have to take another look11:55
hugolplardman:  I think its the protocol, cause it accepts the internet access but then the phone asks me to accept N800 as controller and then fails11:55
hugolplardman:  any idea where to look to solve this?11:56
timely"controller"?11:56
timelydid you mark it as trusted in bluetooth in the phone?11:56
lardmanhugolp: no idea, sorry11:56
hugolptimely:  yes, I marked it as trusted11:56
hugolpshould I try untrusted?11:56
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timelyno :)11:57
hugolpok, this is weird, now they connect but the phone wants to act as a remote control11:58
lardmanupdating is displayed briefly, if there is no connectivity no message is displayed while the connection is started11:58
lardmanI'll have to do some more testing when my wifi connection actually starts working.11:59
timelylardman: what connection?11:59
timelyout of the box, the homepage is local11:59
lardmanah, my apologies11:59
lardmantalking about starting something from the bookmark menu12:00
lardmanthe top "world" item on the LHS12:00
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hugolpok, now it connects but only as a remote control12:01
hugolpI just want to have internet on the N80012:02
lardmandoes you phone support the correct profile?12:03
hugolplardman:  yes, I have configured internet bluetooth account12:03
lardmanDUN I suppose12:03
hugolpso Im guessing it does12:03
hugolpits the Ericsson k800i12:03
lardmanquite new so it ought to12:04
lardmandunno then12:04
hugolplardman:  yes in the N800 device details it says Supported profiles: DUN, FTP, HID,OPP,SPP12:04
hugolpits weird cause when the N800 tries to connect its only posible to act as a remote control12:05
hugolpand when the phone tries to connect it fails12:05
hugolpwho didnt heard about respecting standards here?12:05
hugolp....12:05
lardmanOn one of my phones, I had to click yes to enable each different feature when the N800 asked for it12:05
lardmando it asked if it would be allowed to access the internet, use serial link, be a remote control, etc.12:06
lardmanI wonder if the settings on the phone preclude this for some reason12:06
hugolplardman:  I clicked yes to the internet12:06
hugolpit was the first question12:06
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lardmanok, back to my standard response then ;): dunno12:07
lardmanbbiab12:07
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hugolpfor their reputation Im guessing its Sony who didnt heard about standards12:08
aquatixwell, it worked immediately on my SE m600i12:09
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aquatixi was pleasantly surprised :)12:09
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thuxhello what are tahvo and retu devices?12:10
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solmumahathux: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/codenames/12:21
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doktoreashello everybody12:56
doktoreasI have just discovered Meamo project :d12:56
doktoreasany maemo mapper user?12:56
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lardmanyep13:03
doktoreashi lardman13:04
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lardmanhi doktoreas, what did you want to know?13:05
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doktoreaslardman, just for knowing with maemo map is there an option to create preset tags13:06
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doktoreasand then assign them to each track you recorded?13:06
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lardmanhmm, I don't know about that I'm afraid13:06
doktoreasok np13:07
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dennyso I installed ogg support, and now I keep getting random snippets of german navigation instructions played at me  :)  Is the recommended solution for this 'install a media player that lets you choose where your music is'?  (any recommendations?)13:22
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kulvedenny: there's a workaround for that..13:24
timelydenny: that's the ogg map voices13:25
timelyyou could remove the ;-)13:25
timelyhttp://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/category/maemo/13:25
kulvetimely: thanks ;)13:26
kulvehttps://garage.maemo.org/forum/message.php?msg_id=408913:26
kulvethere's an ugly hack to remove them from the metalayer crawler's Library13:26
timelyyou said that in your blog ;-)13:27
kulveyep, I was looking for the link but couldn't find it until you posted it ;)13:28
dennyoh, and I tried to install Skype last night and it said it couldn't install as it had conflicts and might screw the system - any idea what that might be about?13:28
dennyI don't have anything particularly weird installed...  couple of games from maemo.org, ogg support, mapper, I think that's it13:28
* denny reads the links13:28
timelydenny: there are ~3 different ways to try to get skype13:29
timelyand are you using the latest os2008 or an earlier one13:29
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timelyif you aren't using the latest, upgrade.13:29
dennyI have whatever came on the 810 when I bought it last week13:30
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dennyI tried to install it via the my selection -> skype menu option13:31
kulvedenny: did you upgrade the os2008 to the latest version?13:31
timelydenny: afaik, the devices in stores are likely to have an old version of the os13:31
timelygo to the nokia download site and grab the updater13:31
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dennyhokay13:32
dennyis that going to flash it clean, or will it leave installed apps and settings as they are?13:32
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kulvesettings can be backuped and restored quite nicely13:33
BaykHello13:34
kulvewith applications it's a bit harder as there is a bug..13:34
kulvedenny: you need to deny restoring the apps in next boot after the flash, enable the extras repo in Application Manager and then restore the apps13:34
dennyfun.13:35
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dennythink I'll leave that until I have some spare time then  :)13:35
dennyhrm, I can't install modest either13:35
dennysame error as skype13:35
* denny sulks13:35
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aquatixdenny: iirc, that's indeed because you have an older OS2008 version13:43
aquatixit'll work after an upgrade13:43
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dennyI guess I should go buy a data card for this thing at some point13:45
dennyI ordered the wrong size with it  :)13:45
dennynever mind, made my digicam happy13:45
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* aquatix has a 4GB minisd, and ordered 2 microsd -> minisd converters at dealextreme.com13:46
aquatixas they make larger capacity microsd's than minisd's13:46
hrwtimely: two last os2008 releases were same13:47
dennyI meant to buy a MicroSD (after reading an incorrect review on the site I bought the tablet from) but misread the page and actually bought a full size SD card13:47
dennydouble fail  :)13:47
hrwtimely: .51.3 only changed bootloader - rootfs was the same13:47
dennyhow do I find out what I have?13:48
hrwdenny: control panel - there is 'about device' or sth like that13:48
dennyVersion: 1.2007.42-1913:49
kulve2.2007.50-213:50
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dennywe're a major version apart?13:53
dennyI can't find any MiniSD cards over 2GB, but I can find MicroSD at 4GB13:53
dennythat seems odd13:53
hrwdenny: 50-2 and 51-3 were last releases - upgrade13:54
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* denny nods13:54
dennyso I've been told  :)13:54
kulveyeah, there's a big difference between 42 and 50. And some rare boot fix in 51 (iirc)13:54
dennyseems like a job for when I have (a) some time, and (b) a powe adaptor13:54
denny*power13:54
hrwkulve: 51 had important boot fix yes13:55
hrwkulve: my n810 finally works13:55
kulvemine boots just fine ;)13:56
hrwmine now too13:56
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hrwwith 51-3 nolo and 50-2 based rootfs13:56
aquatixdenny: i got my 4GB minisd at amazon.com13:58
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dennyyeah, just looking at their .co.uk now13:59
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dennyI try to avoid buying from them though - the old patent thing13:59
* denny bears grudges :)13:59
aquatixheheh13:59
aquatixmyeah, bought my n810 in the us, and got a minisd with it13:59
aquatixas the device doesn't sell here in the netherlands yet14:00
aquatixor at least didn't at that moment14:00
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aquatixdenny: microsd -> minisd adapters are about 1 euro at dealextreme.com14:00
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aquatixso i bought 2 [free shipping anyway]14:00
aquatixso i can buy an 8GB microsd or something14:01
dennyhowcome microsd has higher capacity than minisd, that doesn't seem to make sense14:03
aquatixwell, minisd isn't just used anymore14:03
aquatixall cellphones and such use microsd14:03
aquatixand digicams and such use normal sd14:03
dennywhy didn't they put microsd in the tablet then?14:03
aquatix[of course, sdhc versions of it all, but whatev']14:03
aquatixdunno14:03
aquatixmicrosd is freaking tiny :)14:04
dennyyeah, full size SD in the tablet would have been nice - I read the forums about it though, they ran out of space it seems14:04
aquatixi prefer having a microsd card in an adapter to carry with me14:04
dennyshame14:04
aquatixfullsize would've been cool though indeed14:04
aquatixyeah14:04
hrwbottom part of n810 is not thick enough to use SD slot probably14:05
hrwsame with microUSB instead of miniUSB14:06
hrwat least it is not nokiaUSB connector...14:06
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* denny eyes the ogg instructions14:07
dennythese say stop the metacrawler as root14:07
johnxmaybe they had a whole bunch of mini-sdhc slots left over?14:07
dennythe webpage I found about gaining root says sudo gainroot14:07
dennysudo gainroot says something about read errors and breaking my device  :)14:07
kulvedenny: I use sshd to get the root access..14:08
aquatixhrw: good point14:08
johnxdenny, use becomeroot, easyroot or install openssh and "ssh root@localhost"14:08
aquatixdenny: i followed http://devnoob.blogspot.com/2008/01/root-access-on-nokia-n810.html14:09
dennyta14:09
aquatixusing openssh indeed14:09
dennyhaving ssh and sshd sounds useful anyway14:10
* denny installs14:10
aquatixindeed14:10
aquatixbut be sure to follow their hints on changing the pw's :)14:10
kulveI do most of my hacking by loggin in as ssh14:10
kulve..as root through ssh14:10
johnxaquatix, it makes you set the password at install...14:10
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* denny nods14:11
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aquatixjohnx: true14:11
aquatixbut i disabled remote root too14:11
aquatixand added the sudo option14:11
johnxah, I like to live dangerously14:11
aquatixso i now just do sudo su -14:11
johnxI drink milk from the carton, I remote login as root, and sometimes I don't wear matching socks :)14:12
aquatixthe latter: bleh ;)14:12
johnx:P14:13
buddyleeyou could also configure sshd to only allow root from localhost14:13
johnxor set a good password and not worry about it too much14:13
aquatixmyeah, i disable remote root on all my machines14:13
aquatixwhy risk an attack14:14
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woodong50hi14:17
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woodong50....14:20
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dennyhrmph.14:29
dennydenny@starbug ~ $ file .meta_storage14:29
denny.meta_storage: SQLite 3.x database14:29
dennydenny@starbug ~ $ sqlite .meta_storage14:29
dennyUnable to open database ".meta_storage": file is encrypted or is not a database14:29
kulvedenny: your sqlite is not sqlite3?14:29
Juhazindeed it probably isn't14:30
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Juhazsince the command line app for sqlite3 is called sqlite3.14:31
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dennyhah.14:32
dennythank you14:32
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* denny repeats the apt-get install dance, with more success14:33
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* denny reloads media player, finds joyful lack of navi voices14:35
dennythanks for your help  :)14:35
kulveif I would have the time I would create a small app to do that for you.. But I don't.14:36
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SDuensinGreetings.15:23
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henriquehi, it seems my n800 isn't connecting to google talk, does anybody had the same problem?15:24
henriquethe "chat status icon" only blinks in red and green and never connect15:25
Tobotrasmine just works15:27
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Tobotrashenrique: Is internet connectivity generally ok?15:27
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msh_any maemo-mapper developers about?15:28
henriqueTobotras, yes, I can access sites, just the IM doesn't works15:29
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Tobotrashenrique: using pidgin or "native" chat client (forgot the name)?15:29
henriqueTobotras, the native one15:31
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Tobotrashenrique: nothing special then. Triple check account settings? :)15:35
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ccookeIs there a command line interface to the LEDs?15:38
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inzccooke, dbus-send ;)15:39
ccookealthough come to think of it, I could probably do everything in python/perl/whatever15:39
ccookeinz: oh, that's easy :-)15:39
henriqueTobotras, is there some tip? I've just put my gmail account and my password, it is enough right?15:39
inzccooke, depends a bit on how you want to use it15:39
ccookeinz: will that also allow you to pop up those notification messages that IM/mail clients do?15:39
Tobotrashenrique: should work15:39
inzccooke, actually it does ;)15:40
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inzccooke, it won't, however, allow you to act when one is activated15:40
ccookeMy reason is simple: I'm bored, and thus I'm contemplating creating a native irssi plugin for the chat functions...15:40
henrique*very* strange15:40
ccookeinz: Drat. But a python script, say, could?15:40
henriqueTobotras, we are talking about the maemo which comes with n800, right?15:40
inzccooke, I think so, yes15:41
ccooke(if I get it working, I'll probably do a Mutt script, too ;-)15:41
ccookebasically, I want to see if I can get text-based IM and mail facilities the same integration as the GUI apps.15:42
ccookeIt really should be possible15:42
ccookeirssi with a bitlbee server would easily do the job for every IM protocol I'm likely to use... mutt for email...15:43
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Tobotrashenrique: erhm... I've installed upgrade, of course. You think there might be difference?15:44
ccookeIs there a recommended scripting language for maemo?15:44
henriqueTobotras, should be the problem15:44
henriqueTobotras, how can I do the upgrade?15:45
Tobotrashenrique: by following instructions on nokia site? :)15:46
ynezzccooke: python probably15:46
ccookeynezz: Mmm. Looks it, yeah15:47
ccookeI've been meaning to learn python.15:47
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henriqueTobotras, right15:50
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pupnik_slim is sexy16:29
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KotCzarnysometimes16:29
pupnikah stuck in scrollback16:29
pupnik(re N810 case)16:29
KotCzarnybut sometimes having full body is sexy too16:29
KotCzarny;)16:29
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||cwslim != skinny16:31
ccookepupnik: Which case is that?16:32
pupnikthe unit itself16:32
ccookeahhh16:32
ccookeit is nice.16:32
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desertcDoes anyone read ebooks on their N800/N810 ?16:33
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KotCzarnylol16:33
desertcAny suggestion for software?16:33
KotCzarnyevince, fbreader16:33
desertcHiya, KotCzarny.  Morning.16:33
desertcThanks - I will research them both.16:34
KotCzarnybtw. anyone used hidhspeed mmc mode?16:34
KotCzarny(kernel patch)16:35
desertcfbreader was just what I was seeking16:35
ccookedesertc: FBreader is great.16:37
ccooke(I'm really pleased with the PDair aluminium case. Very solid, and I can read ebooks without opening the case :-)16:37
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desertcccooke: Slashdot had a story on the trend to release ebooks without Digital Restriction Management, so I thought it might be a good time to look at reader software again, now that that annoying trend is passing.  I really enjoyed my Franklin eBookReader back 8 years ago.16:40
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desertchttp://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/11/063323316:41
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elbthere are quite a few publishers who release DRM-free ebooks at very reasonable prices16:42
elbBaen releases almost everything they publish at paperback prices16:42
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ccookedesertc: that's not ebooks - that's *audio* books.16:43
desertcccooke: You have one of these cases?  http://www.pdair.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=10100000_1900000_1100008916:43
ccookeIt's still a good thing, mind16:43
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desertcHeh - you are right - audio books.  Well, I guess I am a typical /. reader.  Never read the articles - this one required a login.  Aren't the comments the best part anyway?  ;-)16:44
ccookedesertc: One of these: http://www.pdair.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=10100000_1900000_11000208&products_id=731716:44
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ccookedesertc: ... the comments on slashdot? you *read* them? ;-)16:45
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trulscomments > stories16:46
desertcMost of the time the comments are useful even when the article is garbage!  Although, the quality has gone down hill so much in the last several years.16:46
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ccookedesertc: I admit - I do sometimes read the comments. They (and the site itself) are just an easy target:-)16:47
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BrainsComments on Slashdotnare about the only thing worth reading..  Stories tend to lag other sources.16:47
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desertcGot a feel for which is which... for example, the article on Linux gaming.  I have an interest in it.  The article was garbage, but it was interesting to see /. readers still have lots of misconceptions on the topic.16:48
Brains(And we'll skip talking about trolling via story summary...)16:48
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desertcBrains: I typically read the /. Old Story scroll - less annoying editor copy and more stories displayed per page.  It is down right now, but I find it better than even the RSS feed.16:49
desertcccooke: That's a nice looking case.  I was looking at my N800 screen yesterday wondering what I would do when the screen finally needs to get replaced.16:49
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desertcMore on-topic, /. also had a story a few minutes ago how iPhone users are specifically prohibited from adding Firefox, VoIP software, and other applications.  (Funny, I can't find the link now.)  I don't think any N800 owner read that without feeling a bit more confident about their purchase.16:55
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desertchttp://apple.slashdot.org/apple/08/03/11/1216211.shtml16:57
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desertcKotCzarny: Thanks again for your help.  I'd better take my inane ramblings elsewhere!  ;-)16:58
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lopzhi17:01
dererkhi17:03
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Dazgardhi there17:12
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Dazgardare there any perl for maemo please ?17:13
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johnxyou mean, just a perl interpreter? or perl bindings for hildon?17:14
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Dazgardboth17:14
Dazgardbut only  the interpreter would be good17:15
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johnxwell perl is already on the device...17:15
johnxso yes17:15
Dazgardcool17:15
johnxI think it's a dependency of dpkg or apt-get or something17:15
Dazgardare there bindings for hildon ?17:15
Dazgardok17:15
Dazgardhappy to read this17:15
johnxno hildon bindings are far as I know17:16
johnxbut I haven't looked17:16
Dazgardok, so i think, i'll try to stick with python17:16
Dazgardim trying to make an ardour (http://ardour.org) controller with my n80017:17
johnxah, that would be neat17:17
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dennyshame the perl bindings aren't there, you could have used gellyfish's module17:18
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Dazgarddenny: ;)17:20
h3sp4wndenny: You know him ?17:21
dennywe've met a few times, yeah17:21
h3sp4wnOne of the best people I ever worked with17:21
dennyperl conferences, that kind of thing17:21
dennywe're both in London and on the london.pm irc channel17:21
dennyor at least, I am when I'm not dying of deadline17:21
dennyspeaking of which...17:21
* denny is away: coding, honest.17:22
bstockhey on my n810 if i want to update from 50-2 to 51-3 OS, can i do that without wiping my nokia?17:24
bstockevery time i've updated before i did a format, didn't know if that's necessary17:24
johnxthere should be a way in this case, nothing is changed except for nolo (the nokia bootloader)17:25
johnxare you having the power on/off issue it fixes?17:25
bstockno, i haven't had any power issues17:25
bstockis that all it fixes? in that case i just wont bother17:25
johnxyeah, everything else is the same. You can use a parameter to the Linux flasher to have it not flash the rootfs17:27
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bstockalright thx17:28
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magicrobotmonkeyhey, i was trying to move maemo-mappers cache to my external card and I messed it all up, i ended up resetting the cache, now i only have openstreets as a repo, where do i get the others from?17:44
aol_can somebody point me a good tutorial to start learning maemo development? And is there books already on this?17:45
glassbooks would probably be outdated17:45
magicrobotmonkeynm me, im a doofus17:45
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aol_yeah I guess maemo is moving target17:46
johnxaol_, this is the official tutorial: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html17:46
aol_all right thanks17:46
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pupnikWhen i create a binary with -fprofile-generate, should I add 'tweaking' flags like  -funroll-loops to the intial build?  Should I add them to the -fprofile-use stage?  Or if I leave them out, will gcc decide optimally where and whether to use such flags?17:49
pupnikfor e.g. flags like17:49
pupnikfomit-frame-pointer -fforce-addr -fforce-mem -falign-loops=2 -falign-functions=2 -falign-jumps=2 -funroll-loops17:49
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jonohey17:50
jonodoes quim gill come in here?17:50
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pupnikdon't recall seeing him17:51
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jonothanks17:51
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KotCzarnyyawn17:59
KotCzarnyi'm sleepy17:59
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doktoreashello everybody18:25
doktoreasjsut back :D18:25
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pupnikget to work KotCzarny18:27
KotCzarnyi'm sleepy18:28
pupnikjhehe18:28
KotCzarnyand have to do some non-comp work18:28
KotCzarnyand i don't like it18:28
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doktoreasanyone using Maemo Mapper knows if it can be used with DGPS fix?18:30
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NaviI was wondering, do you have to subscribe to a service to get a GPS fix?18:32
pupnikNavi, no18:32
Navisweet18:32
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doktoreasNavi, are you using Maemo Mapper?18:33
NaviNah18:33
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doktoreask18:33
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bhimaIsn't a DGPS fix just a GPS fix with the GPS unit being slightly smarter?18:34
Navipupnik, that was one of the reasons keeping me from getting a receiver :D18:35
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bhimaNavi: You're referring to just straight GPS reception? As in, do you need to pay the US department of defense to use GPS?18:37
* Navi nods18:38
||cwnot sure where you got the impression that you would need to pay18:39
bhimaNavi: Do you have a job? Have you ever looked at your W2 statement? That's where you pay. :)18:40
KotCzarnyhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=106408&postcount=1618:40
KotCzarnyhehe18:40
NaviHeh18:40
KotCzarnyga being scorned18:40
KotCzarny:>18:40
bhima||cw: The European GPS alternative includes subscription services as one of the options.18:40
aol_DGPS is better18:40
||cwbhima: yes, and that's been a big deal because the US's is free18:40
||cwand is available in many parts of the world18:40
aol_USA has "WAAS" and Europe has "EGNOS" systems18:41
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aol_this is done by satellite, so the correction signal comes from dedicated satellite18:41
aol_instead of the normal radio beacon approach18:41
aol_should be no problem to use maemo software (or any else) with DGPS fix18:42
||cwradio beacon is for local correction to improve accuracy, accuracythat most people don't need18:42
||cwdo i care if it says in the right or left hand lane?18:43
aol_since in NMEA protocol it's just one parameter will be 2 instead of 1 ....18:43
aol_||cw: depends on software. for me it's _very_ important18:43
aol_look my project at http://www.racechrono.com :)18:44
||cwyes, and for those in which it is important, they pay to install a local beacon18:44
aol_not really feasible solution18:44
aol_a bit black and white approach there18:44
||cwI see, interesting project18:44
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aol_WAAS and EGNOS "satellite DGPS" are excellent for that18:45
aol_and use of them is free18:45
aol_you need just receiver that supports them18:45
doktoreasaol_, but is it possible right now using DGPS with meamo mapper?18:46
doktoreasi need to buy the whole system18:46
aol_doktoreas: well if you have receiver that supports WAAS or EGNOS depending which continent you live, yes18:46
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doktoreasnokia and receiver18:46
doktoreasnice18:46
aol_look at the specs18:46
doktoreasyep we have EGNOS18:46
aol_its not as accurate as radio beacon, but its better than without anything18:47
||cwanything that speaks NMEA to the host can work with maemo mapper18:47
doktoreasthx for the info18:47
doktoreasaol_, any suggestion for receiver?18:47
aol_doktoreas: sorry not really18:47
aol_I have tried some MTK chipset ones and it works after sending the chipset some commands18:48
aol_but not all receivers accept any commans18:48
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bhimaI thought I'd read that WAAS and EGNOS used the same or similar protocols and were easy to get on one receiver.18:48
aol_the command was to enable "EGNOS test satellites"18:48
aol_atleast in finland you need that to be able to use EGNOS (probably the only official satellite can not be seen from here)18:49
aol_but test satellites work well18:49
KotCzarnyhasn't egnos go official already?18:49
aol_bhima: they are pretty similar but for some reason you need a receiver that supports the right one18:49
bhimaaol_: They use the same spectrum as GPS, right? So they're easy for hardware designers to add to the system.18:50
aol_KotCzarny: "EGNOS is now fully deployed and in its pre-operational phase. The system will undergo certification for safety-of-life applications before becoming fully operational."18:50
aol_bhima: yeah its just software that is needed18:51
doktoreasso won't easy fine a right receiver18:52
aol_I guess you need to turn on that "test bit" to enable use of those pre-operational transmitters18:52
aol_well18:52
doktoreas*find18:52
aol_try cheap Holux 1000 from ebay18:52
aol_msg me I'll send you specs what to send to that chipset to enable the test bit18:53
aol_when you get it18:53
aol_they are like 50 eur18:53
doktoreasaol_, are you a MM developer?18:53
aol_future maemo developer hopefully18:53
aol_currently I do stuff for symbian18:53
aol_want to port my app to maemo18:54
bhimadoktoreas: There are lots of EGNOS compatible receivers.18:54
aol_+I18:54
dtahtbot`aol_: Error: "I" is not a valid command.18:54
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aol_bhima: but you need to enable the test bit :/18:54
doktoreasbhima, any suggestion is nice :D18:55
bhimadoktoreas: Well, I have a Garmin GPS 76, but that's an old model.18:56
aol_bhima: where do you live?18:56
aol_I mean atleast it's impossible to get egnos fix in Finland without that test bit enabling. Central europeans might be luckier18:57
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bhimaaol_: US right now. I *think* I got a fix in Germany with my GPS 76 but I don't remember for sure.18:58
aol_all right, WAAS is a bliss there :)18:58
doktoreasi have about 200 € to invest in receiver18:59
aol_I've seen some WAAS vs. plain GPS comparisions and seems rather impressive18:59
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doktoreasaol_, last thing, how is the download of gpx trax with windows?19:02
doktoreasthe nokia is seen as a storage device?19:02
KotCzarnyyes19:02
KotCzarnyat least sd cards19:02
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doktoreask19:03
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aol_doktoreas: sorry I don't know19:05
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plbIs there a limit to the size sdhc card that will work on n800? was wondering if the 16gb will work19:25
KotCzarnyprobably19:25
GnutoN810hi19:25
johnx16GB will work19:26
KotCzarnyin the worst case you will have to partition it19:26
johnxKotCzarny, that makes no sense at all19:26
johnx:)19:26
KotCzarnyjohnx: just guessing19:26
KotCzarny:)19:26
KotCzarnyand notice 'in the worst case'19:26
plbWas looking at this sdhc card specifically.. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682021124519:27
johnxif it's over the max size supported then it won't work19:27
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johnxthe current SDHC spec released supports up to 32GB19:27
KotCzarnybut there's a rumour that 16gb takes more power19:27
aol_great price19:27
bilboedhmm... ksoftirqd is taking all available cpu on my n800 with os200819:27
bilboedany see that issue before ?19:27
bilboedit's draining my battery like mad19:27
KotCzarnybbl19:28
johnxdoes it keep doing that through a reboot?19:28
bilboedyeah19:28
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* bilboed reboots19:28
fysaturn off and take the battery out for a sec19:28
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johnxand unplug it (if applicable)19:28
plbbtw any know how many hours of just straight audio playback can be expected19:28
fysaright, make sure there's no power so it can *really* shot off.19:28
fysa.. shut off.19:28
fysahttp://blip.tv/file/733960?filename=Chippysteve-GigabyteM528UserInterface102.wmv19:29
fysanew Gigabyte M528 (Ubuntu Mobile) video if anyone is interested.19:29
johnxcool19:29
bilboednce19:29
plbeww wmv file19:30
johnxoh noes!19:30
fysait's a web stream.19:30
fysawith flash player I think.19:30
fysaHD19:30
czrwith harley davidson?19:30
johnxit's a wmv file I think19:30
bilboedmkay... now it's jff2_gcd_mtd4 which is maxing the cpu19:30
fysaoh maybe no flash19:30
bilboedah ... no, it's done now19:30
fysahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76NviXg_1g419:31
fysaflash via Youtube, but lower res19:31
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pupniki need newer gcc19:32
pupniktoo many problems with 3.419:32
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plbthat thing is a phone?19:33
johnxnope19:33
plbah19:33
plbneat openoffice19:33
plbwonder when that thing comes out19:33
plband the price19:34
johnxsometime this year19:34
johnxQ3 I think19:34
plbneat19:34
johnxand it has a tab key O_o19:34
plbprobably be expensive as hell19:34
johnxsupposed to be 700 Euros19:34
plbdamn19:35
aol_should be rather easy to port maemo stuff for that ubuntu mobile?19:35
aol_python and gtk atleast19:35
johnxas long as you don't depend on Nokia closed source stuff19:35
aol_all right19:35
plbI don't think I'll be buying it for that price19:35
aol_and all apis can be ported anyway19:35
aol_or wrapped I mean19:35
aol_plb: I'm thinking about business, supporting as many platform as possible easily :)19:36
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plbtrue19:38
plbI'm still waiting for debian on the n800/810 to become usable19:38
plbheh19:38
johnxso lend a hand :P19:38
johnxsee if you can work out sound stuff19:39
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plbwho's from nyc again?19:39
plbhas anyone tested to see how long the battery last for just audio playback?19:41
plbin offline mode19:41
plbkinda like an mp3 player19:41
johnxanyways, if you just wait for debian chances are it will take a long time. I'll be a lot more motivated to work on it if other people help...19:42
johnx'night19:42
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pepie34hy20:15
pepie34hie20:15
pepie34is there a way to clean the keyboard cache on maemo?20:16
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pupnikdosbox.gcno20:19
pupnikthere, google didn't have that word yet20:19
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pupnikTip: if your vmware scratchbox is running out of room, clear out /scratchbox/ccache20:28
pupnikit can grow to hundreds of megabytes20:28
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pupniknot to mention /var/cache/apt/archives20:30
pupnikjott: ping ?20:31
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pepie34if you use xterm and do an ssh on it, the passwd is recorded in the keyboard cache, how can i erased it ?20:33
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Navilol20:35
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pepie34hildon does not recognize when you type a passwd on a term windows20:36
pepie34so it records it on the cache20:36
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pepie34that's not cool20:36
pepie34:(20:36
Veggenpepie: OS2007?20:37
pepie34yes20:37
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VeggenOS2008 is changed in that way - the cache isn't used in xterm.20:38
pepie34but it ther a way to ereased it20:38
pepie34?20:38
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fysafrom the control panel, under keyboard settings20:40
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fysayou can reset the database for it I believe somewhere.  the same place you can disable it entirely.20:40
pepie34look at it now20:41
pepie34but i have searched there20:41
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pepie34can't find it20:42
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jottpupnik: pong20:42
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pupnikjott which packages from http://scratchbox.org/~jhakala/unofficial/  do I install?  should I make a new sb armel target?20:45
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pupnikgcc 3.4 is broken for profile-generation purposes20:46
pupnikalso apt-cache search scratchbox shows me scratchbox-toolchain-arm-gcc4.1-uclibc20061004 - arm-gcc4.1-uclibc20061004 compiler for Scratchbox20:46
pupnikso if i install that on my host, will i get gcc 4.1 in my existing sb armel target?20:47
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pepie34fysa i can't find the erase database thing20:50
pepie34wether in keayboard or input methods20:50
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fysaI thought there was. :)20:50
fysaone sec20:50
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fysaah, my device is in the car.20:53
fysafrom xterm in $HOME or ~, I would try something like .. "grep -R commonword *"20:53
fysaor ls -a20:53
fysaand look for a hidden directory that starts with .20:53
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pepie34oki thanks20:54
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fysayou could grep for your password or something else you know is in the prediction dictionary20:55
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pepie34not in the user folder20:58
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pepie34fysa found21:01
fysacool21:01
pepie34.osso/hildon-input-method/.used.dictionary21:01
fysaaha21:01
fysanice.21:01
fysamaybe I should fill that with commonly-typed xterm commands.21:01
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jottpupnik: you can just install the debs ( http://scratchbox.org/~jhakala/unofficial/ ) and use sb-menu to change the toolchain (you could also create another target to make it cleaner)21:05
jottit's also possible to change SBOX_CROSS_GCC_* in your config to the cs2007 toolchain21:06
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jottand uclibc is definitely wrong :)21:06
pupnikok thanks21:07
pupnikyou mentioned building with 4.2.  i have a little patch to generate avg fps display for uae4all.  pls let me know if you find any positive effects to gcc 4.2 optimizations21:09
morbecdo I need something extra before to install PyMaemo on scratchbox?21:10
lmouramorbec, did you add repository.maemo.org/extras to sources.list?21:10
morbeclmoura, yes ... i got problems when the some packages are trying to configure itself21:12
lmourawhat command did you use to install?21:12
morbecapt-get install python2.5-runtime21:13
jottmorbec: maybe you have to use "fakeroot apt-get install python2.5-runtime"21:13
morbecjott, ok .. i will try21:14
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jottpupnik: well gcc 4.2 can optimize better sometimes - not sure if uae will benefit much from it.. the core is asm anyway21:16
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pupnikjott -fprofile-generate yielded significant gains in uae4all.  I want to try it with dosbox but gcc3.4 profiling (gcov) is broken21:18
pupnikok so i have scratchbox-core 1.0.821:18
pupnikhttp://scratchbox.org/~jhakala/unofficial/scratchbox-toolchain-arm-linux-cs2007q3-51sb1_1.0.7~20071012154500-1_i386.deb  so this is the toolchain i need?21:19
pupnik(sb1)21:19
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jotti think so.. not sure what the difference is but the sb1 worked here21:20
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Nazgul-N810hello21:21
jotthello21:21
Nazgul-N810hi21:22
pupnikjott, so the toolchain is all i need to install to create a new target with gcc4.2?21:22
jottafair it sufficient21:22
jottits21:22
pupnikthanks21:22
jottjust keep in mind that this can easily break binary compatibility :)21:23
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dhdhi, have the oprofile packages been updated for ITOS2008?21:24
* dhd needs to get his profile on21:24
pupnikthanks jott.  gcc compile profiling is just too good to pass up.  i must use it21:24
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jott:)21:25
pupnikand 3.4 breaks dosbox21:25
dhd:) alternately ... gprof works now?!21:25
jott3.4.4 is broken anyway :P21:25
morbecjott, i got the same error, can you look at please? http://rafb.net/p/hFLHvd39.html21:26
pupnikdhd i think gprof is x86-only?21:26
dhdhmm, I just saw you say "gcc compile profiling" and I thought you were talking about it21:27
jottmorbec: hmm i think there where other with missing users.. don't know what the actual cause was..21:27
dhdI think I have used gprof on ARM, although not on armel21:27
dhdoprofile is actually a bit more useful anyway21:27
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pupnikbuilding with -fprofile-generate, running on device, copying .gcda files back to scratchbox, then compiling with -fprofile-use21:27
jottdhd: oprofile works fine on os200821:27
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dhdjott: sweet, is it built into the os2008 kernel?21:28
jottno21:28
jottyou have to boot an other kernel21:28
dhdare there precompiled ones around?21:28
jottthere is a howto in the wiki...21:28
dhdahhh21:28
jottyeah21:28
dhdthanks21:28
* dhd doesn't mind compiling a kernel but has actually never done it for maemo21:28
jottgoogle oprofile maemo :)21:28
dhdthanks, sorry for dumb questions :)21:29
jotti think you have to adjunst the kernel revision ;)21:29
dhdyeah I had it working in ITOS200721:29
dhdjust wasn't sure about 200821:29
jottyeah just follow (basically) http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/oprofile/ .. the -200743 has changed but i guess that's not too hard to find out ;)21:30
h3sp4wnHas anyone compiled a kernel with the realview compiler for maemo ?21:30
dhdanother potentially annoying question, does anyone know what the properties of the cache are on the CPU in the N800/N81021:30
dhde.g. size, associativity21:30
* dhd wants to simulate it in cachegrind21:30
elbyou're going to want to reference the OMAP documentation for that21:31
dhdyeah21:31
dhdit is an OMAP2430 right?21:31
pH5242021:31
dhdahh21:31
pH5but never mind, it's the same arm core :)21:32
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pupnik32kb instructino 32kb data21:34
pupnikdon't know assoc21:34
dhdyeah21:34
pupnikarm1136j-s21:34
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dhd4-way set associative, apparently21:35
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ywwghow do I make labels in a panel applet transparent?  The text in the clock applet, for instance, is properly transparent, but my own text, which are just regular gtk labels, have an opaque background21:44
ywwg(this only shows up if the panel background is set to anything other than system)21:44
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KotCzarnyyawn21:48
KotCzarnyi should really take some sleep21:49
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cLinoh what the hell21:50
cLinmy desktop keeps resetting21:51
KotCzarnycorruption!21:51
cLinfucking bug21:51
cLinits a bug right?21:51
KotCzarnyyou should be reported for breaking the desktop21:51
cLinim going to kill everyone now21:51
KotCzarnygood21:52
KotCzarnystart from the nearest person (you)21:52
KotCzarny:)21:52
cLinits already been done21:52
KotCzarnynope, i see you're still alive21:52
cLinthis is my computer talking21:52
KotCzarnybtw. is it full device reset or just wm?21:52
cLinwm i guess21:53
KotCzarnytry sshing and looking around21:53
cLinone minute i leave it alone, next minute it's back to default. and not the theme or wallpaper21:53
cLinjust the status bar and left sidebar21:53
KotCzarnymaybe some rogue status bar app21:53
qwerty12That happens too when it is force killed 221:54
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cLinyea, i saw someone else list that bug when their BT keyboard connects21:55
cLinwhat's the command for control panel?21:55
KotCzarnytry sniffing around /home/user dir21:55
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pupnikif I set up a new target for gcc 4.2 do i have to extract a new rootstrap?  or can i just symlink my old chinook rootstrap21:57
qwerty12controlpanel works 4 me in xterm @clin21:57
cLinclin@debian:~$ controlpanel21:57
cLin-sh: controlpanel: command not found21:57
KotCzarnyNokia-N800-51-3:/mnt/1/20/uae4all_gp2x_0.7.2a-data# which controlpanel21:58
KotCzarny /usr/bin/controlpanel21:58
pupnikwheee21:59
pupnikgcc version 4.2.121:59
KotCzarnypupnik: report as soon as you get the results :)21:59
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* pupnik runs around in circles chasing his tail while dosbox builds with -fprofile-generate22:00
KotCzarnyget more cpu power22:01
KotCzarny:)22:01
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morbechow can I fix this? ==> /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory22:03
KotCzarnymorbec: use nokia's provided scripts?22:03
KotCzarnyto install sb, that is22:03
pupnikis this related to -rfakeroot ?22:04
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morbeci am trying to install python maemo on scratchbox22:05
lmouramorbec, how did you get these errors?22:05
morbecI ran fakeroot apt-get install python2.5-runtime22:06
lmourachinook?22:06
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morbecyes22:07
lmourawhich sbox? from ubuntu or maemo script?22:07
lmoura(I mean manual installation)22:07
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morbeci used maemo script to install scratchbox and maemo22:07
lmourahum22:08
KotCzarnyweird22:08
lmouradid you try fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade?22:08
morbecno22:08
KotCzarnybtw. are you installing python in sb?22:08
KotCzarnythen you don't use fakeroot22:09
KotCzarnyie. if you're logged into sb22:09
morbeci got the same error without the fakeroot22:09
KotCzarnyyou treat it as 'device'22:09
KotCzarnyare you logged into sb and target is selected?22:09
morbecyes22:09
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KotCzarnywere there any errors during sb+sdk installation?22:11
morbecno22:11
KotCzarnyit looks like an incomplete install for me22:12
morbecI'm running atp-get dist-upgrade now then I will try again22:12
KotCzarnyor not22:12
KotCzarnyi don't have /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure too22:12
KotCzarnybut i have installet packaged via apt-get in sb without a problem22:12
KotCzarnyinstalled22:13
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morbeci don't know what can be because I followed the instructions in the PyMaemo website ...22:14
KotCzarnyis it instruction for sb or device?22:14
morbecsb22:14
lmourahttp://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/sdk_installation.html22:15
lmoura?22:15
jottKotCzarny: it's better to use fakeroot within scratchbox, some postinst stuff breaks without it22:16
morbechttp://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/index.html#news22:16
KotCzarnyjott: i believe fakeroot is only for building packages22:16
jottno22:16
a-l-e5Chello. i don't if i'm in the good channel... i'm trying to figure out how to change some keys on the n810 but i can't get any interesting value from xev.22:16
jottsbox runs in user context22:16
Veggena-l-e: hmm. which keys?22:17
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Veggen(I successfully made some xmodmap-scripts once, probably by using xev)22:17
KotCzarnyjott: sbox is chrooted22:17
a-l-ewhat i would like to do, is to modify the zoom keys in page up and down... and to get a tab on the keyboard (fn+return?)22:17
KotCzarnythat's why i assumed it's ok to go with it22:17
a-l-eVeggen: i'd also like to have some { } []22:18
jottKotCzarny: try chown to a different user22:18
KotCzarnyjott: better not22:18
KotCzarny:)22:18
KotCzarnyworks for now22:18
KotCzarnyand i'm happy with it22:18
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a-l-ei also have a german keyboard and would like to have é as shift+ö :-)22:20
jottKotCzarny: well "touch foo && chown nobody foo && echo YEAH" vs. "touch foo && fakeroot chown nobody foo && echo YEAH"22:20
morbecI installed scratchbox using sudo, is it all right?22:21
a-l-each ok! i can run xev from a ssh session and then type the keys on the n810! so i directly see the output!!!!!22:21
KotCzarnya-l-e: we're glad we could help22:22
KotCzarny;)22:22
jottmorbec: yeah, the host tools (debs) have to be installed as root22:22
a-l-eit's all about the karma :-)22:22
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KotCzarnyand aura22:22
KotCzarny:)22:22
KotCzarnywisdom sipping through tcp/ip22:23
Veggena-l-e: The file you probably want to modify is /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44, btw :)22:23
KotCzarnyxmodmap?22:23
KotCzarny:)22:23
a-l-ei was thinking about creating a .xmodmap and loading it manually... but i'll take a look at the rx-44 file!22:24
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jottit's better to use rx-44 than xmodmap22:24
jottuse/modify22:24
morbecok ... i will do the follow ... I run the command sb-reinstall, then I will do dist-upgrade and install again the pymaemo22:25
a-l-ejott: ok!22:25
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wasabiSo does the n810 have any expansion bay capabilities other than the USB/22:25
Veggenwasabi: uhm...mini-SD? bluetooth?22:25
KotCzarnywifi too22:26
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wasabilet me be more specific. any arbitrary device expansion capabilities that do not involve wireless.22:26
KotCzarnywhat are you lloking for?22:26
KotCzarnylooking22:26
wasabipotential for connecting an expresscard to it in some crazy ass way.22:26
KotCzarnyhmm22:26
wasabiwhich will probably end up being usb22:26
KotCzarnythere was usb adapter22:26
KotCzarnyfor that22:26
KotCzarnyotherwise yes, usb is the only option22:27
jottdoesn't the minisd port support sdio?22:28
a-l-ei'm also trying to get a lan usb card or to let a mac mini share its connection through bluetooth :-) ... but no success up to now :-(22:28
KotCzarnyjott: you will have to find mini sdio card first22:28
KotCzarny;)22:28
KotCzarnyin n800 it's easier22:29
jottwell there are wifi cards and some other stuff22:29
wasabiJust screwing around with possibilities. For instance, connecting a HSUDA card to it, with voice support.22:29
wasabiAnd coming up with a dialer app of some sort.22:29
KotCzarnyanother reason that n800 is superior22:29
wasabiHSUPA22:29
KotCzarny:)22:29
jottno keyboard is just a killer..22:30
KotCzarnygo external22:30
jotton the road?!22:30
KotCzarnyyes22:30
KotCzarnyn800 shape allows keyboard to be stored with it :)22:30
Robot101wasabi: it'd be cooler to hook in tp-phony from gnome phone manager so you could drive it with the built-in chat/call UIs :)22:31
wasabiYeah. I suspect it would come to that.22:31
jottstore but not USE22:31
wasabiHardware is the main obstacle though.22:31
jotte.g. while walking22:31
pupnikjott btw to get my new armel42 target compiling i'm linking /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/usr/ to /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/armel42/usr/ to save space.  seems to work22:31
KotCzarnyusing electronic devices while walking is dangerous22:31
KotCzarny;)22:31
jottpupnik: well you could just switch configs files then :)22:31
jottnaa..22:32
Robot101wasabi: throw a beat-up bluetooth phone in your backpack and work out how to make the N800 pretend to be a USB headset?22:32
a-l-ei'm happy with the n810 keyboard... or will be once i've modded a bit its layout :-)22:32
qwerty12A quick question, is there a command (if so an example please  ) that recursivly copies one folders contents ;including sub and sub-sub folders etc to another folder ; not overwriting any files in the destination folder with the same name but copies everything else? I ask because I want the extras of the Maemo SDK VMWare Appliance on  my real scratchbox  installed on gutsy and i have 4.0.1 and i believe  the Maemo SDK VMWare Appliance has 4.0. Sorry for my bad t22:32
jottyeah you have to mod the n810 layout to make it usable22:32
jottbut then it's pretty neat22:32
a-l-eqwerty12: cp -ru ?22:32
wasabiRobot101: Short term thats fine. Long term it doesn't really help... I'm only doing this because I'm tired of crappy phones and would rather carry around the n810.22:32
KotCzarnyqwerty12: cp -a22:32
qwerty12Thanks :)22:32
KotCzarny-a preserves misc things22:32
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KotCzarnybut use tar22:33
wasabiWas thinking about grabbing one of these USB things, wirign it up, and affixing it to the back of the n810.22:33
KotCzarny:)22:33
jotthttp://www.oztion.com.au/-mini-SDIO-miniSD-video-adapter-pda-projector-monitor/auction/2989738.aspx speaking of minisd :)22:33
a-l-eqwerty12: but you'd better check the man page of cp :-)22:33
GNUtonsera|evening!22:33
pupnikwowww22:33
qwerty12Ok will do, thanks.22:33
KotCzarnyjott: nice22:34
jottwonder if this would work with linux/n8x022:34
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Robot101wasabi: stick a nokia 6500 to the back of it? it's pretty small. :)22:34
KotCzarnydreamer..22:34
KotCzarny:)22:34
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wasabiRobot101: separate battery.22:35
Robot101well, you can probably rig that more easily than your plan... :)22:35
GNUtonjott: it's really cheaper! :P22:35
* pupnik will use pandora + mplayer->television 22:36
Robot101and thinking of that, probably wire it in to be a modem over USB anyway22:36
wasabihttp://www.sierrawireless.com/product/mc8785v.aspx22:36
Robot101maybe you could just dismantle a simple phone that can charge and be a modem over USB?22:36
wasabipci express mini card seems the right size.22:37
wasabihahah check this out22:37
wasabihttp://cgi.ebay.com/Sierra-Wireless-USB-PCI-Express-Mini-Card-Board_W0QQitemZ130202837275QQcmdZViewItem22:37
a-l-ehow do i reload the definition from the rx-44 file?22:37
wasabiRobot101: A solution like that looks creative. Maybe doable.22:39
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Robot101that pretty much *is* a phone, it has a separate battery and everything :P22:40
wasabiYeah.22:40
wasabiBut he's wired it all up himself. Wonder if I can get him to make a similar board for me for the HSUPA stuff.22:40
jotta-l-e: setxkbmap -symbols nokia_vndr/rx-4422:40
wasabiThe idea is it's FLAT.22:41
wasabiIt will be grafted to the back of the n81022:41
lcukhmmm22:42
jotta-l-e: may add ...rx-44(de) or your particular layout22:42
lcukunaligned memory access doesnt cause as much of a penalty as i thought it would22:42
a-l-ejott: ok! thanks i'll try it!22:42
jott(remember to escape it when using brackets :)22:43
Stskeepsjott: neat22:45
Stskeeps(minisd thing :P)22:45
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jottyeah seems to be available for <100$ (SDV-841)22:46
* lcuk will not shy away from writing unaligned 32bit memory writes any more22:47
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a-l-ejott: it worked: thanks!22:50
a-l-eno i have to figure out why i get a È instaed of a è...22:50
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* lcuk is pleasantly surprised by the grunt available so far inside this little box :)22:52
pupnikme too22:52
KotCzarnygrunt?22:53
pupnikpower i guess22:53
lcuki had to repeat my inner loop 18 times so i could reduce the frame rate down from 27 to 15!22:53
lcuk(thats when i started testing the unaligned writes)22:53
KotCzarny:)22:54
morbecit's seems the PyMaemo was installed !22:54
pupnikthere are also some asm optimized memcpy floating around22:54
lmouramorbec, fine :)22:54
lcukwriting 32bits on a 32bit boundary gets 17fps.   being off by 1 byte is 15fps,   off by 2 is 15fps, off by 3 is 14fps!22:54
KotCzarnymorbec: so it was reinstallation issue?22:54
KotCzarnylcuk: how about 16bit boundary?22:54
KotCzarnyerm22:54
KotCzarnyscratch that22:55
KotCzarny:)22:55
lcukthis is just a tight 32bit blit loop with gcc opts on22:55
morbecKotCzarny, I ran sb-reinstall, after I dist-upgraded, then I installed python2.5-runtime22:55
KotCzarnymorbec: so i was right then :)22:56
lcukit means i can write glyphs at any pixel - before i hard coded myself to a 4 pixel horizontal22:56
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morbec:)22:57
jottlcuk: use something like .. char __attribute__ ((aligned(32)))22:57
lcukKotCzarny, you are right quite a lot of the time - i am most impressed by your knowledge22:57
KotCzarny:>22:57
KotCzarnyit's not knowledge, it's magic22:57
lcukand the fact you are a cyborg22:58
KotCzarnybot, to be exact22:58
pupniklcuk i do not understand why your blits are slower than standard sdl22:58
lcukR. KotCzarny Olivaw :)22:58
KotCzarny:)22:58
KotCzarnyok, bbl folks22:58
KotCzarnyhave a nice hacking22:58
pupnikcheers22:59
lcuk800*480 YUV framerate is limited to 27fps tearfree22:59
pupnikah22:59
lcukno matter how much work i do in the middle22:59
pupnikyou have code that uses tearsync?22:59
lcuki render whole page of glyphs 9 times and its still 27 fps22:59
pupnikah22:59
lcukxv handles it22:59
lcukhandles scaling as well - so anything from a 200*120 screen upto fullsize fills the area23:00
lcukwhether that is fullscreen or not23:00
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lcuknot fullscreen 800*480 looks strange through because its squashed to fit in the client area23:00
pupnikmy emus would run better if they could wait() for a vsync and then pageflip23:01
lcukso i use APPVIEW_WIDTH and HEIGHT from somewhere23:01
pupnikhmm23:01
pupnikso how is it possible to have no tearing without double buffering?23:02
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pupnikyou have to copy the data sometime... to the active screen23:02
lcukit is double buffered though (as far as i can tell) the lcd has enough memory to handle 2x fullscreen YUV displays (w*h+(w*h/2)+w*h/2)23:02
pupniksorry for my ignorance23:02
pupnikohh23:02
lcukbut it hasnt got enough memory for 2x fullscreen rgb (w*h*2)23:03
pupnikso using vx tearsync, xomap handles the double-buffering / pageflipping automagically?23:03
pupniks/vx/xv/23:03
infobotpupnik meant: so using xv tearsync, xomap handles the double-buffering / pageflipping automagically?23:03
pupnikwith yuv mode?23:04
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lcukas far as i can tell yes.  ill let you browse the code if ya want23:04
lcukits messy but shaped enough to understand i think23:04
pupnikyes i need to investigate this stuff very soon23:04
morbeclmoura, KotCzarny and jott: thanks for help!23:05
lmouranp23:05
jottlcuk: i would be interested too in your code so far23:05
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lcukoooh if its gonna have a grand viewing ill have to tidy it up :P23:06
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pupnikis lcd controller 60hz?  i hear conflicting numbers23:06
* lcuk takes out all the porn from the code23:06
KotCzarny51hz23:06
pupnik*sure*?23:06
KotCzarnynope23:06
KotCzarnybut that's what i remember23:06
KotCzarnyfrom googling23:06
lcukdoes it have a proper refresh rate?23:06
pupnikk23:06
KotCzarnyrun xvidtune ?23:06
* jott prepares a sed s/canvass/canvas/ *scnr* 23:07
lcuklololol23:07
* lcuk was wanting to produce something which accepted params and allows variations to be seen23:07
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lcukOUCH!23:08
lcukifucking zippo!  the flintlock just ate me23:08
KotCzarnydon't smoke23:08
KotCzarnyit's awfull habit23:08
KotCzarnyand kind of slavery you subdue to23:09
lcuki agree23:09
KotCzarnyerm23:09
KotCzarnywrong word23:09
Tama^2o,o23:09
KotCzarnysurrender23:09
KotCzarnyor 'subdue yourself to'23:10
KotCzarny:)23:10
pupnikjott, which libstdc++ works with gcc4.2?23:10
KotCzarnyok. bbl23:10
pupnik./dosbox: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.9'23:10
jottpupnik: yeah well the one for gcc4.2 .)23:11
pupnikwell i set up a target with that toolchain23:11
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jottthat's the point where things tend to break when switching to a different compiler major version :/23:12
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pupniki should be able to LD_PRELOAD if I find the right version23:13
jottyeah23:14
pupnikbut the /usr/lib/libstdc++ in target armel42 is linked to the /usr/lib/ in the gcc 3.4 target23:14
pupnikso that might be "bad"23:14
jottthe debian armel thing should work i suppose23:14
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pupnik ./scratchbox/compilers/arm-linux-cs2007q3-51sb1/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/libc/marvell-f/usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6.0.9  achaaa23:18
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pupnikoh wait, maybe i want armv4t23:20
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christefanohas anyone seen their Airport Extremes die on a regular basis when an N8x0 starts using the network?23:28
||cwhm, n810 official price drop...23:28
pupnikwooo it works!23:29
christefanol||cw: what price drop?23:29
||cwhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/03/11/nokias-n810-internet-tablet-gets-a-90-price-cut/23:29
christefanointeresting. it's good I got mine on eBay :)23:30
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||cwhow do you like hte kb on the 810?23:30
christefanoit's not as nice as I'd hoped. it's been less then a week but so far I haven't really adjusted to the keys yet23:31
pupnikdon't forget the height limitations23:32
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christefanowhat limitations?23:32
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jottyeah you have to adjust it to really use it in shell etc.. but when you get used to it, you can type pretty fast23:32
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christefanoI haven't seen an N800, so please forgive my ignorance23:32
pupnikthere's no vertical  space for big knobby keys like some requested23:32
christefanoah, true23:32
Robot101are there any S40 HSDPA phones?23:33
||cwif the top row bing close to the case hard to get used to?23:34
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pupnikfor me it's only an issue with the d-pad, which should have been lowered 2 mm23:34
GnutoN810hi23:34
jottyeah the dpad really sucks23:35
christefanono, not for me. I'd say I have slightly larger fingers than average for my age/sex23:35
christefanothe d-pad really does suck23:35
jottatleast for everything but scrolling up and down23:35
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jotti wonder who came up with the physical design for it :/23:36
christefanois LAMP running on OS 2008?23:37
||cwsame on the 770, have to take the cover off the back to really use it23:37
jotti wish someone made some kind of stick that could be attached to it23:38
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pupnikboo.. i get no .gcda files23:41
GnutoN810why i'm unable to see my deb package in the maemo installer?23:42
pupnikwhich deb package, located where?23:42
GnutoN810it's in my repository.23:43
jottis it in a user/* section?23:43
GnutoN810section: utils23:43
pupnikcan you see it with apt-cache search $package ?23:44
pupnikmaybe you forgot to update?23:44
jottit has to be in user/* to be visible by the crap gui installer thingie..23:44
GnutoN810pupnik, yeah i can see my package with apt-cache23:44
pupnikjott wins23:44
GnutoN810jott, ok so i'll use section user/utils23:45
GnutoN810isn't right?23:45
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pupnikhttp://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_making_an_application_package_bora.html  here is a list of standard sections GnutoN810  (still applies to 4.0 afaik)23:46
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GnutoN810pupnik, thank you :)23:47
* GnutoN810 is reading23:47
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cyberholicGOOOD Evening Everyone! :)23:48
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KotCzarnyyawn23:48
cyberholicI need some Beta-Testers for my n800xn810 website service, who would like to???23:48
MoRpHeUzanybody ever had problems with CTRL key being sent without modifier bit turned on ?23:48
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lopzhi23:49
cyberholichey, no one wants to test out my new n800 service???? Come on guys.... i invented something to spice up your Device!!!!23:52
cyberholic*at least i hope*23:52
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cyberholic*at least it spiced up mine * :)23:53
shackanwhat?23:53
pupnikwhat website service cyberholic ?23:53
cyberholicshackan: you have a n800 or n810 ?23:53
shackanyes23:53
shackanbut it's turned off23:54
cyberholicshackan: would be great if you could test this out and tell me about bugs....23:54
cyberholicwww.mojocafe.de23:54
shackanAAAAAAAAAARGH23:54
shackanfullscreen flash23:54
cyberholic:)23:54
shackanmy eye!23:54
cyberholic;)23:54
cyberholiconly one?23:54
cyberholicwhat about your other eye?23:54
GnutoN810ho can encode an image to base64?23:55
GnutoN810i want to set an icon to my deb package.23:55
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shackanGnutoN810: that's a WHO ?23:55
Tama^2an 'how' I think23:56
cyberholicshackan, would be great if you could tell me if you understood what mojocafe.de is about....23:56
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shackancyberholic: I have no idea23:56
GnutoN810how23:56
shackancyberholic: looks like.. I don't know, there's a list of applets23:56
shackanbut they're called with another name to sound cool23:57
cyberholicit is quite easy: while you have your device on your desktop, instead of showing the today screen, you could have a nice clock, the weather info or calender and much more widgets to come....23:57
shackanoh that's sooo cool23:57
shackan[sic]23:57
solmumahaanyone familiar with hal?23:58
cyberholicshackan: at least a nice reason to keep my device on while on the desktop ;)23:58
shackancyberholic: I turn it off23:58
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shackanI have, you know, a real clock, an a real calendar23:59
cyberholicok, then i will need some other Beta-Testers.... who would like to???23:59

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