IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-03-01

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fysaanyone try a P1610 or P1620?00:02
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pupniknew game build/port by solmumaha : "airstrike"
kikkaNarf, software update won't work.00:17
kikkais there any way to update it without flashing it? (n770, os05->os06)00:18
KotCzarnyat least not without breaking things00:19
kikkaConnect it to your computer via USB without turning it on <- What does this mean? Should the display be black, or what?00:19
Tama^2it should be turned off00:26
Tama^2so from the desktop, press the poer button and select 'switch off'00:26
kikkaYeah, that doesn't work00:27
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kikkaTommorow again, I hate this crap at the moment.00:30
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GeneralAntillesDo you have it plugged into the charger? :\00:31
GeneralAntillesFlashing is about as simple as it gets. . . .00:31
Tama^2yes, you need to leave it *unplugged* form the charger00:33
Tama^2turn it off00:33
Tama^2plug in USB00:33
Tama^2start the flasher (if you are doing it on the command line)00:33
Tama^2then press and keep pressed the 'home' button and press the power button to turn it on00:34
Tama^2release the home button only when you see the usb logo in the corner of the screen00:34
Tama^2the flasher will have recognized the device by then00:35
GeneralAntillesPressure works fine for me with maemopad+ in OS2008.00:37
Tama^2good, then it may mean there is something different with *some* tablets00:37
Tama^2and they should know00:38
Tama^2I remember that picture00:38
Tama^2mine is all black00:38
Tama^2even if I touch it lightly00:38
Tama^2in OS2008 that is00:38
Tama^2in OS2007 pressure makes a difference00:39
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KotCzarnybtw. in app manager it would be nice to have resizeable columns..00:41
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KotCzarnyright now if there's an package with very long version string00:41
GeneralAntillesRaise an enhancement request.00:41
KotCzarnyit just takes over whole screen00:41
KotCzarnyto who?00:41
TuxProbehaya, as a newb at maemo developing - is there like a meta pkg i could install for the full gcc toolchain?00:42
KotCzarnytuxprobe: nope, install them one by one00:42
TuxProbe k thx anyways =)00:42
KotCzarnybut use scratchbox00:43
TuxProbeis the scratchbox one?00:43
KotCzarnyoh, you mean you want to develop on pc?00:43
KotCzarnythen yes, there are scripts that will install sb and sdk automatically00:43
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TuxProbeyea, man - would be tiredsome if one had to input all code through a virtual touch keyboard :p00:44
KotCzarnyi have to login to buzilla00:44
KotCzarnytuxprobe: n810 has keyboard00:44
GeneralAntillesWhy does everybody like to bitch about having to register at bugzilla? <_<00:45
TuxProbebut still hehe00:45
KotCzarnygeneral: because people are lazy?00:45
Tama^2people bitch about registering in general00:45
KotCzarnyregister, there, register here00:45
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Tama^2I understand why I need registering on bugzilla00:45
KotCzarny'and all i wanted to do is write one sentence!'00:46
Tama^2but in general I hate to register like everyone alse00:46
jkufiling bugs without the folloup email address is worthless, in a typical case00:46
GeneralAntillesTakes more energy to complain about it than to just do it.00:46
Tama^2the problem is taht people do not want long term reltionships!00:46
KotCzarnygeneral, sure, 'your login is taken, choose another one'00:46
Tama^2just write your one liner and be done with it00:46
Tama^2like one night stands :P00:46
KotCzarnyand.. 'choose another one'00:46
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GeneralAntillesWe don't want your bugs if you're not willing to put a little effort into filing them. :P00:47
KotCzarnythere should be an ircbot00:47
KotCzarnyto collect bugs :)00:47
Tama^2are you crazy?00:47
GeneralAntillesForms are a little complicated for that.00:47
KotCzarnythey're not mine :P00:47
Tama^2half of bugzilla would be filled with links to goatse00:47
KotCzarnyi would be only reporting them00:47
KotCzarnytama: inteligent bot00:47
GeneralAntillesWho cares about taht00:47
GeneralAntillesHalf of it would be filled with crappy one-liner "bugs".00:48
Tama^2"doesn't turn on"00:48
KotCzarny[x] delete00:48
GeneralAntillesWe already get enough of those NOW.00:48
Tama^2"wtf is with this product?"00:48
KotCzarnythat would be easy00:48
GeneralAntillesThe people with deletion permissions have enough to.00:49
Tama^2not when the rate at which they are submitted is higher than a person can deal with them00:49
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KotCzarnyand what rate would that be?00:50
GeneralAntillesIt never ceases to amaze the kinds mouth-diarrhea that people submit.00:50
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KotCzarnybtw. what are 'marketing release' packages for?00:51
lcuk_2those are half resolution 2x speed pre-rendered versions00:52
lcuk_2for promotional and marketting purposes00:52
KotCzarnycan i remove them?00:52
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lcuk_2god knows i was half joking, i dont even know where your lookin00:52
KotCzarnydpkg -l00:52
KotCzarnyosso-imageviewer-l10n-mr0, osso-imageviewer marketing release package00:53
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desertcHeya - I am working on upgrading to OS2008 with my N800 via my linux desktop01:01
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desertcI am on  --- do you think 2007.51-3 is the latest version of the OS ?01:01
desertcthanks very much01:02
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KotCzarnylools like those mr0 pachages contain of some docs01:03
KotCzarnywhich were purged by docpurge anyway01:03
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desertcdo you think I am going about this task in the right way?01:06
desertcI am going to use the Flasher 3.0 program01:06
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sp3000clearly nothing's gone horribly wrong yet :)01:09
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lcuk_2desertc, yes - as long as you follow the instructions (you are already most of the way through) it should work.  i should say however i hope you took a backup first01:12
lcuk_2(unless of course its a new machine and you haven't got anything of yours stored on it01:12
desertcokay, thanks for the advice01:13
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lcuk_2no prob :) you have already done the hard part and found what you need to do yourself01:13
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tubtubhi all. Anyone played with dbus and the bluez api ? I have been getting somewhere with scanning devices but I can not connect to a remote service. I am wondering if it is supported properly on the nokia n810?01:16
sp3000KotCzarny: the l10n part is the interesting one01:17
KotCzarnyi'm looking to remove them01:17
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KotCzarnyi guess01:18
sp3000infobot: l10n?01:18
infobotl10n is probably an abbreviation for localisation, which is a long word used a lot in some circles, so it's shortened by effectively saying "L, then 10 more letters, then N", get it?01:18
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sp3000apt-cache show will tell you what the mr0s are for01:20
jkuKotCzarny, are referring to the maemo-users dicussion?01:20
KotCzarnyDescription: osso-imageviewer marketing release package01:21
KotCzarny This is a metapackage for osso-imageviewer to pull all the l10n packages.01:21
sp3000namely, metapackages (essentially empty) that depend on all languages01:21
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KotCzarnyoff with them!01:21
sp3000I suppose it's theoretically possible nothing will blow up if you remove l10n packages for unused languages01:21
jkuif you're building some osso app, just remove the dependency01:22
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desertcwhen instructions say to reboot holding the home button -- is that the button that looks like the side of a house?01:23
desertcwith squares living inside?01:23
GeneralAntillesTake a wild stab in the dark. :P01:23
KotCzarnyunless you come from the arctic01:24
sp3000desertc: the instructions are probably being redundant, I've never had to touch a home button when flashing01:25
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desertcsp3000: you just leave it running?01:26
GeneralAntillesThe flasher can sometimes miss the device powering on and let the device boot normally.01:26
GeneralAntillesPowering up with the home key just makes the device wait for the flasher.01:26
GeneralAntillesMakes timing mildly easier.01:26
sp3000desertc: no, it does need to be shut down to start in flashing mode01:26
desertcthanks again01:27
sp3000GeneralAntilles: hmm, maybe you've flashed more times then ;)01:27
* sp3000 is only up to ~100 or so01:27
GeneralAntillesI've had the flasher miss ONCE.01:27
GeneralAntillesOne less thing to go wrong, anyway.01:28
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KotCzarnyi guess i have broken apt-get01:31
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KotCzarnyit won't allow me to install new packages without those 'required -ms'01:32
jkuwithout what?01:33
KotCzarnyapt-get -f install maemopad+01:33
KotCzarnyresults with:01:33
KotCzarny  tablet-browser-ui: Depends: hildon-common-strings-l10n-mr0 but it is not installable or01:33
KotCzarny                              hildon-common-strings-l10n-mr01:33
KotCzarnyE: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).01:33
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jkuthis is on scratchbox?01:34
desertcugh - I have to run flasher commands with sudo  :(01:34
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KotCzarnyon n80001:34
GeneralAntillesdesertc, why "ugh"?01:35
GeneralAntillesand there's only one to run.01:35
desertcI run flasher on the n800 ?01:35
sp3000I guess apps like to depend on localizations, for better or for worse01:35
jkuthose l10n packages should be there...01:35
KotCzarnybut i don't want no stinky localizations01:35
desertcI thought I ran flasher on the desktop01:35
sp3000desertc: that was a different conversation01:35
desertcsp3000: oh, thanks01:35
GeneralAntillesOf course you run it on the desktop01:35
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GeneralAntillesWires are getting crossed.01:36
jkuKotCzarny,  did you remove them?01:36
KotCzarnyjku: yes01:36
jkuah, that explains it :)01:36
GeneralAntillesWhy are you worried about a few hundred KB of localization packages, anyway?01:36
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KotCzarnyhow to make apt-get happy now (without installing those packages)01:36
desertcI do not like running things with sudo - especially when I am following some stranger's instructions regarding files downloaded from the internet.   *runs command and crosses fingers*01:37
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jkuno way to do that01:37
GeneralAntillesdesertc, it's just so it can use the USB bus.01:37
jkuKotCzarny, but you could make your own meta-packages that do not depend on the localizations01:37
sp3000you could create fake packages01:38
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GeneralAntillesIf you don't want to have to run it as root, then give the user access to the bus.01:38
KotCzarnybut i will have to reinstall them, yes?01:38
pupniki need a streaming radio client that will cache the stream and let me auto-grab a song i like without losing the beginning01:38
sp3000oh, yeah, or less of them, like that01:38
KotCzarnypupnik: mplayer01:38
KotCzarnyyes, --dump-stream01:38
jkuKotCzarny, hildon-common-strings-l10n-mr0 or hildon-common-strings-l10n-mr must be there yes01:39
KotCzarnyi guess there was a frontend to mplayer to do what you wanted01:39
pupnikmaybe i was unclear. i don't want to fill up gigabytes of media while listening01:39
KotCzarnyjku: i cut most of the error message01:39
Navi]NO, YOU ALL ARE GAY.01:39
NaviEnd of argument.01:39
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jkuKotCzarny, if you really want to get rid of localizations, I guess you could make single empty package that "provides" all of the meta-l10n packages (but doesn't depend on anything). Lot of work for not much gain though01:41
KotCzarnyi guess it's time for some sed fun01:41
desertcso - with flasher, I ran it, it says it could not find a suitable usb device, and I tried to reboot my nokia but it still doesn't see it01:41
desertc[53563.650852] scsi 3:0:0:0: Direct-Access     Nokia    N800             0316 PQ: 0 ANSI: 201:42
desertcIt does show up in my system log, however!01:42
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GeneralAntillesTurn off the N800.01:43
GeneralAntillesPlug it into a USB port on the machine.01:43
GeneralAntillesStart the flasher.01:44
GeneralAntillesHold down the home key and power on the N800.01:44
* Navi reads some scrollback01:44
desertcRight.  Thanks for your help.  Wish that was in the instructions01:44
GeneralAntillesRelease the Home key once you see the USB icon.01:44
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GeneralAntillesThat's in all the instructions I can recall reading.01:44
* GeneralAntilles shrugs.01:44
KotCzarnynavi: too much irc01:46
desertcsomeone needs to go have some fun this weekend to release some pent up energy... ;)01:46
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NaviI'm just passing along the judgements of those who are too polite to do so01:48
* lcuk_2 is suffering from lazyitis01:48
desertchmm - GeneralAntilles - I did give your instructions a try, with no success.  I do notice that my Rhythmbox music player pops up when the N800 comes online.  I wonder if it is interrupting Flasher in some way01:48
Navilcuk_2, shit, you should get that checked01:48
Navilcuk_2, my uncle had that, died two weeks later.01:49
sp3000desertc: right?01:49
GeneralAntillesHas the device actually been turned off.01:49
lcuk_2i think doctor will just recommend sleep01:49
GeneralAntillesHave you actually seen a USB logo?01:49
sp3000oh my hash01:49
Navilcuk_2, maybe01:49
desertcI do see the USB logo on the N800 device01:49
KotCzarnyon screen?01:49
desertcAlso, I am doing a "Switch off!" and the device seems off01:49
sp3000how off?01:50
GeneralAntillesIs it plugged into the charger?01:50
sp3000is the charger pluggedP?01:50
desertcactually, it is plugged into the charger, yes01:50
sp3000ooh, my fingers are talking lilsp01:50
GeneralAntillesN800: Unplug charger and switch off the Nokia N800.01:50
sp3000desertc: so the instructions say unplug the charger01:50
desertchuh - yeah the battery had run out01:50
GeneralAntillesIf it's plugged into the charger, it's not turned off.01:50
desertcI'm looking at some bad instructions then.01:50
Naviunplug it, turn it all the way off01:50
lcuk_2pupnik, when you are running sdl, have you got tearsync sorted?    ive been playing with a variation at 800*480 and its working, but it looks crap compared to my silky smooth XV version01:51
Navirun the flasher, plug in the USB cable01:51
GeneralAntillesWhich ones, desertc?01:51
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Navithen plug in the N800 and it'll flash01:51
NaviIt's _not hard_01:51
sp3000yeah, isn't the one links to :)01:51
NaviI did it for the first time a few days ago and was done with it within two minutes01:51
pupniklcuk_2: no01:51
lcuk_2damn, it might be worth my while following xv down then and seeing how it manages it.01:52
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lcuk_2ill try to get something to show the difference.  i need to refactor all this stuff and remove hard written paths to things, but im not entirely sure where data and apps should end up01:53
pupnikioctl(fbfd, OMAPFB_VSYNC);01:53
sp3000Navi: yeah, it doesn't help when you find bad instructions01:53
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sp3000teh interwebs are annoying like that, for every good doc there's a handful of ones with fairly random similar content01:54
Navisp3000, They're not bad.01:54
NaviJesus christ01:54
lcuk_2yer i saw the ioctls when i was examining the omapfb code (Which went by the wayside whilst i look at xv which is easier to configure)01:54
desertcsp3000: the instructions I found on nokia's site said to use some pc sync software on windows01:54
lcuk_2i didnt realise sdl sent info through x itself rather than sidestepping it for this device01:54
elbthat's the normal path for sdl01:55
elb(when run under X)01:55
sp3000desertc: ->     *  Download software update -> For updating your software using a Linux computer, go to -> links to the good doc01:56
lcuk_2i thought it went to lowest layer possible (omapfb/direct ioctls) rather than x.  thats just me not knowing sdl tho01:56
Navidesertc, you downloaded the image, why didn't you bother to check -_-01:56
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sp3000Navi: it doesn't say on the image I think01:56
Navisp3000, but think about where he downloaded the image.01:57
sp3000Navi: the bad doc in question only says "reboot", going into actingdead isn't really that distinguishable from that for most people I suspect01:57
sp3000Navi: tablets-dev something01:57
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lcuk_2when testing binaries on the device, where is the most logical place for me to put them?   and do i use a subfolder to hold all my exes together or just put each into one big long /bin folder with everything else?01:57
desertcsp3000: thank you for your help -- I missed the "for updating your software using a linux computer", because the operating system requirements listed only Windows versions01:58
pupnikkeep at it lcuk_2, if you burn out, take a break01:58
sp3000(either maemo without the dash or nokia with the dash, for max oddness)01:58
KotCzarny /usr/local01:58
lcuk_2for the last couple of weeks i have been putting them in /usr/bin/liq/myexe01:58
pupniklcuk_2: if you do echo $PATH you can see where bins are executed from01:58
lcuk_2it works but its not right01:58
pupnikyou can also execute a binary locally with ./binary01:58
KotCzarnyalso /opt can be the place01:58
Navi/usr/local/ is for lazy people, like me.01:59
lcuk_2yer i know that, but i want to position the files on my device as a user will expect to find them01:59
NaviWhy a package would install there is beyond me.01:59
KotCzarny /usr/local is for stuff01:59
KotCzarnyfor packages it's / or /usr01:59
desertcwow - big difference when you have the right instructions01:59
KotCzarnydepending how critical it is02:00
NaviKotCzarny, yes, unmanaged stuff.02:00
KotCzarnyyou can also prepare some shell script02:00
desertchey - whoever is responsible for the AMD64 bit version on Flasher, thank you!  most developers ignore linux users and those who don't ignore the 64 bit users.02:01
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GeneralAntillesSomebody should yell at that guy to either take those down or fix them.02:01
lcuk_2i use a script for copying everything from scratchbox over after compilation goes smoothly, then execute it with ssh.  can i pre-set a "startin" folder so that my exe can find data files stored in the same place as the exe, or is there some kind of api to tell me the exe path?02:02
KotCzarnyecho $PATH02:03
sp3000fysa: I love the truncation on the url slug02:03
KotCzarnyand for setting: PATH=$PATH:your_dir02:04
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KotCzarnyit's a linux02:04
lcuk_2but that wont tell me which folder i started from, although it may get around not knowing the path to a specific data file02:05
KotCzarnypwd is for that02:05
KotCzarnyor $PWD02:05
KotCzarnydepending on shell02:05
KotCzarnyand you can always use: .02:05
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KotCzarnyit means 'current dir'02:05
lcuk_2consider this call: "ssh root@ /usr/bin/liq/testprog"            inside there, if i fopen something without specifying a path it blows.  so far i have had to specify the full path, you are saying if i just use "./mydata.file"   it should work?02:07
KotCzarnyi believe you have that in ARGV[0]02:08
KotCzarnyuse dirname(ARGV[0])02:08
KotCzarnyand you will get calling path02:08
lcuk_2:D holy crap batman, you're right.    i should have remembered that from my old old old old c days :D thank you02:09
* lcuk_2 goes and simplifies everything02:09
KotCzarnyyou can then chdir() to that dir02:10
KotCzarnyor something02:10
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lcuk_2yer, it was knowing where i was that was the problem.  ive had my head in microsoft land for too long (vb) and whilst my c thinking is coming back, the api is still a bit rough02:11
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KotCzarny$b=preg_replace("@[,\|]\s*?[a-z][^ ]*?-mr0?@","",$a);02:11
KotCzarny$f=fopen("status1","w"); fwrite($f,$b);02:11
* KotCzarny loves php02:12
KotCzarny(script to remove dependencies on -mr*)02:12
KotCzarnyi wonder how long would be that script in C02:12
desertcwhew -- this OS2008 is hot02:14
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desertcthe GUI so far is much better optimized to the screen size02:15
GeneralAntillesMetalayer-crawler is stuck on a symlink. :P02:15
* KotCzarny removed metalayer-crawler from rc2.d02:15
lcuk_2i keep having to shutdown some xml indexer thing02:15
desertchas there ever been any discussion about including Gizmo Project with Maemo by default?02:17
desertcI am someone who would like to see SIP communication become more of a standard02:17
GeneralAntillesIt is bundled.02:18
GeneralAntillesWell, the installer is.02:18
KotCzarnywhat's 'gizmo' ?02:18
KotCzarnylooks like some marketing forced app02:19
desertcah - gotcha - I thought that might be left over from my previous install.  I just ran through the install02:19
leif__desertc, a SIP client is bundled... check the Accounts control panel02:19
* leif__ uses gizmo though02:19
NaviWhy use gizmo?02:19
NaviI like the rtcomm interface better02:19
GeneralAntillesSeriously, having Gizmo idling all the time eats RAM.02:20
leif__does rtcomm fetch the phonebook from gizmo's servers yet?02:20
KotCzarnygeneral: how to remove gizmo from menu?02:20
* GeneralAntilles doesn't have a phonebook on Gizmo's servers.02:20
leif__didn't last i tried it02:20
KotCzarny(same with rhapsody)02:20
GeneralAntillesKotCzarny, just install it and uninstall it.02:20
NaviHow lame, how do you go back to the "currently playing" screen on Canola2?02:20
KotCzarnyshould be removable by simple 'delete' button02:21
Navididn't see that obscure button in the top right02:21
KotCzarnynavi: press L^ button02:21
KotCzarny(the one belowe d-pad)02:21
GeneralAntillesOr remove the .desktops from /usr/share/applications/hildon02:21
NaviKotCzarny, that goes backwards :P02:21
KotCzarnyit always takes you out of the fullscreen02:21
KotCzarnyat least that's what i have observed02:21
* Navi rolls his eyes02:22
GeneralAntillesGizmo is fullscreen only.02:22
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Canola2 is fullscreen only.02:22
GeneralAntillesThere's no windowed mode. . . .02:22
KotCzarnygeneral: i did that, doesn't work02:23
KotCzarnyit's probably somewhere else too02:23
KotCzarnyThe server encountered a temporary error and could not complete your request.02:23
NaviCanola = dedicated media player mode, just to show off02:23
leif__GeneralAntilles, that url would show you about canola2's windowed mode... except google is sending me a 502 error there currently02:23
Naviwindowed mode is gross02:24
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* KotCzarny will install fluxbox anyway02:24
* leif__ has not tried canola2 since the first beta02:24
KotCzarnysooner or later02:24
GeneralAntillesKotCzarny, worked for me, you sure you removed them?02:24
KotCzarnyls: /usr/share/applications/hildon/giz*: No such file or directory02:25
k-sto run in windowed mode just use -n, see --help02:25
TuxProbeok, so! ive installed scratchbox now - on my i686 arch, but i get the following error when i try login to an sbox session:02:26
TuxProbeInconsistency detected by rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed!02:26
KotCzarnytux: vdso02:26
KotCzarnyecho 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled02:26
TuxProbethats it?02:26
KotCzarnyworked for me02:26
TuxProbeyes true - thx :D02:27
NaviArch as in ArchLinux?02:27
Navior Arch as in Architecture?02:27
TuxProbeboth hehe02:28
NaviTuxProbe, I posted it on the forums, should of searched there first.02:28
NaviArchLinux forums, that is.02:28
KotCzarnyanother question, can i remove contacts and bookmarks plugins from nav?02:28
leif__KotCzarny, what does dpkg -L gizmo-installer tell you?02:28
GeneralAntillesBut it breaks things02:28
TuxProbeim searching google - a lot navi, which forum to be specific?02:28
GeneralAntillesand the taskbar wont expand to fill the space up02:28
KotCzarnygeneral: hmm02:28
Navi[18:24:42] <Navi> ArchLinux forums, that is. <- These forums02:29
KotCzarnycan they be changed to other functions then?02:29
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desertcGeneralAntilles: Yes, the SIP account integration is very nice.  :->02:29
TuxProbeah sry i see02:29
GeneralAntillesThe plugins that provide that functionality are closed-source, though.02:29
GeneralAntillesSo somebody will need to figure out how to write them.02:29
KotCzarnybut why they aren't removable?02:29
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GeneralAntillesProbably because the taskbar isn't fluid.02:30
KotCzarnyi could use that space02:30
GeneralAntillesI can't imagine why Nokia decided to close those.02:30
GeneralAntillesThe functionality to swap in new plugins there has been there for a while now.02:31
KotCzarnymaybe they're hiding something02:31
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to figure out how they work and give us some more menus.02:31
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GeneralAntillesQuick and dirty way of solving the hugeness issue of the OS2008 Application Menu.02:31
leif__The app launching menu is open, at least02:32
GeneralAntillesIs it?02:32
leif__it is in hildon-desktop, yes02:32
GeneralAntillesHas anybody tried replacing the contacts plugin with another app launching plugin?02:32
TuxProbeshould one go for a OS2008 on the Nokia N800? Whats the big difference between 07 and 08 in the hildon department anyways?02:33
* leif__ has thought about it02:33
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n800musicless useless would be good02:33
leif__but I don't have scratchbox available to me currently02:33
GeneralAntillesTuxProbe, there's only one thing you need to know: OS2008 has 70 free MHz.02:33
leif__TuxProbe, it also is what all the current and new apps are targeting02:34
TuxProbeyea a little CPU tweak i know02:34
GeneralAntillesWell that, and it's GTK 2.10 versus 2.602:34
leif__and gizmo 4 vs 302:34
KotCzarnybut then you get slower dsp02:34
TuxProbebut ive read, there are most applications available towards 07 yet02:34
leif__look at and see02:35
KotCzarnytux: there are many apps for 0802:35
Tama^2slower DSP does not affect overall performace really02:35
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TuxProbenot too interested in those anyways, must.. build.. own packages.. hehe02:35
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GeneralAntillesDSP basically only decodes mp3s02:36
GeneralAntillesSo, uh, who cares?02:36
n800musicis the usb thingy stable?02:36
GeneralAntilles"usb thingy"?02:36
leif__TuxProbe, do you want to build packages for last years abandoned platform, or this year's platform which likely won't be abandoned for many more months still?02:36
KotCzarnyalso plays/records/mixes02:37
* leif__ needs to go02:37
TuxProbeciao leif02:37
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TuxProbesry, carry on :)02:37
GeneralAntillesn800music, there really isn't much to it.02:38
GeneralAntillesNot really a stable or unstable thing02:38
GeneralAntillesIt either works or it doesn't, and it seems to work.02:38
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n800musicwell usb drives tend to fry if disconnected randomly02:39
n800musicthat's all02:39
KotCzarnythe less stuff cluttering, the happier i am02:40
desertcreally impressed with this upgrade02:41
henriquewhy do I need to have a memory card plugged in the device to connect it through usb with my computer?02:43
KotCzarnybecause it only exports internal-mmc ?02:43
GeneralAntillesBecause it doesn't provide any other functionality?02:43
KotCzarny(not flash, not external-mmc)02:43
briandbecause your computer sees it as one or two media drives02:43
GeneralAntillesHow do you expect to keep the device booted if it unmounts the rootfs to mount it on your desktop?02:44
KotCzarnyor via some emulation02:44
KotCzarnybut really sshfs roolez02:44
KotCzarny(or nfs)02:45
KotCzarnybriand: i have two cards, but after connecting usb cable i see only one of them02:45
KotCzarnyhow to see other one?02:45
briandput a file on it02:46
KotCzarnyi have02:46
briandmy external sometimes doesn't show if it's empty02:46
KotCzarnyit's umount cleanly when i connect usb cable too02:46
briand...and, you have to have that little "door" shut, too.02:47
KotCzarnyi have02:47
KotCzarnyit should show up as sda and sdb for example, yes?02:47
* briand shrugs02:48
briandon my Fedora box, it shows up as  /media/disk-x and /media/disk-y, where x and y are two (usually) consecutive numbers02:48
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briandi should probably modify my fstab so that it shows up as /n800/int and /n800/ext, I guess...02:49
KotCzarnymaybe i have to enable 'scan all luns'02:50
Navibreaking unix file structure eh?02:50
desertcGeneralAntilles: I think I get what you were saying - you can put in the gizmo account details within the SIP account global settings, and not have to use the Gizmo Project client any more!02:52
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michele_briand: I think you need to edit/add files in /etc/hal/fdi/, not fstab02:53
desertcNow I can tie multiple SIP accounts together, like I do with Ekiga on Ubuntu02:54
KotCzarnyecho 7 > /sys/module/scsi_mod/parameters/max_luns02:56
GeneralAntillesOnly a little broken
KotCzarnyi saw that02:56
KotCzarnyopen again to show the entries02:57
GeneralAntillesOops . . . same picture02:57
KotCzarnynot same02:57
GeneralAntillesIt DOES work02:57
GeneralAntillesOne sec02:57
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KotCzarnybtw. you should make icons 64x6402:59
KotCzarnyit will align text then02:59
* KotCzarny fixed his menus that way03:00
GeneralAntillesYeah, don't care.03:00
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briandmichele_: hmm. no idea how to go about that03:01
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lcddKotCzarny: what's the clock app in that screenshot?03:02
KotCzarny'statusbar clock'03:03
GeneralAntilleslcdd, you follow ITT at ALL? :P03:03
lcddnot lately03:03
GeneralAntillesIt's only been on the front page for the past week and half. . . .03:04
KotCzarnyis there a way to make app-menu thinner?03:04
KotCzarnyie. to fit more entries on screen at a time?03:05
TuxProbe3,48K/s damned be freedesktop :o03:05
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GeneralAntillesThe Panels Control Panel doesn't seem ready for most than 3 navigator plugins yet.03:07
GeneralAntillesWont let me select my duped application menu.03:07
desertcanyway to check what the connection error is for SIP logins?03:07
KotCzarnygeneral: it's duped even if you simply delete contacts.desktop03:07
desertcI got one account (Gizmo) connected, but one account (Diamond) did not connect.03:08
desertchaha -- :( -- it was a typo03:09
desertcthanks all for your help - this new OS2008 has me really excited.  I was only expecting minor fixes.  :)  :)  :)03:11
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KotCzarnyit was that sudo guy?03:11
KotCzarnyor another?03:11
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GeneralAntillesThat's the sudo guy.03:12
Sho_KotCzarny: That guy needs an Internet Tablet. Would be much handier ;)03:14
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NaviUsers are too stupid to handle superuser powers.03:16
KotCzarnygood thing to be cautious03:16
Navisudo chmod 600 /usr/bin/sudo03:17
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KotCzarnycp /bin/false /usr/bin/sudo03:18
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KotCzarnyanyone tried booting from mmc?03:21
TuxProbeinternal? yes :)03:23
TuxProbei just got the tablet yesterday, soo... :P03:24
KotCzarnyah. n800?03:24
KotCzarnywhat howto have you used?03:24
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TuxProbeborrowed for a project, have it for like half a year for free ;)03:24
TuxProbehmm the logical one? nothing in specific - just xterm skills03:25
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KotCzarnyi would like some bootmenu03:25
TuxProbehowto on sb was a must tho03:25
KotCzarnyin case anything goes wrong03:25
TuxProbecreate an image of your ROOT perhaps - be able to reflash it if u brick03:27
michele_that's the one linked in the wiki page I pointed you to earlier today03:28
TuxProbemore details plz :) for everyone: teach specifics to the needy hehe03:28
michele_details here:
TuxProbehow is the initfs compressed?03:29
KotCzarnyit's for os2k6/703:30
TuxProbethe first boot i made took like.. 5-8 minutes!03:30
GeneralAntillesSounds like the internal flash card might be corrupted.03:31
GeneralAntillesThis is really a much better guide: took care of it hehe - i found like 1500 emails on storage :)03:32
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GeneralAntillesWhere's my code monkey?
KotCzarnybut it's not that usefull03:53
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GeneralAntillesSays you.03:53
GeneralAntillesHow long have you had your device?03:53
NaviKotCzarny, it's pleasing03:53
Navino need for crappy scrolling03:53
KotCzarnyme? less than a week03:53
GeneralAntillesYour opinion on these matters is void.03:53
KotCzarnythat's what hibernate would be for03:54
KotCzarnyand if you want even less clicks use some 'desktop-icons' app03:54
KotCzarnyforgot the name03:54
GeneralAntillesThis is mostly about freeing up more space in Application Manager.03:54
KotCzarnybut it's on maemo.org03:54
ynezzKotCzarny: it exists?03:55
GeneralAntillesBut that's not the point.03:55
KotCzarnybtw. do they work?03:55
KotCzarnyi mean icons in first menu03:55
GeneralAntillesIt's a mockup.03:55
GeneralAntillesThus this filename. . . .03:56
briandah, so it's a photoshopped wish-list, then03:56
GeneralAntillesNot really a wish-list.03:56
briands/wish-list/set of demands/03:57
infobotbriand meant: ah, so it's a photoshopped set of demands, then03:57
GeneralAntillesThat's a wish list.03:57
GeneralAntillesThis is a future application mockup.03:57
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GeneralAntillesWell, utility thing.03:58
GeneralAntillesNavigator plugin.03:58
briand64 impala isn't so cool, anyway.  better off with a '72 Malibu03:58
qos_hey does somebody know something about a wlanreset? i read month ago about it03:58
GeneralAntillesBetter off with a '70 Challenger R/T03:58
GeneralAntillesOr a '66 Charger 42803:58
briandwell, yeah.03:58
briandor '74 Duster with a 36003:59
* briand 's first car.03:59
* Navi wonders how this random conversation came to be03:59
GeneralAntillesClick my links.03:59
GeneralAntillesThey reveal all.03:59
briandit's a jpeg-enhanced stream-of-consciousness conversation04:00
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briandgood to know you're a Mopar fan, anyway.04:01
GeneralAntillesrm_you needs to be done doing IRL things so I can prod him into productivity again.04:01
michele_I prefer the 71 Charger04:01
briandI'm guessing you didn't get on the waiting list for the new Challenger, either, huh?04:01
GeneralAntillesIt looks great.04:01
GeneralAntillesTook bad they went with the fugly new Charger interior04:02
briand360HP/325ft-lbs torque... right off the factory floor.  :)04:02
GeneralAntillesand that gross-as-hell autostick contraptions.04:02
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GeneralAntillesVanishing Point = 70 > 7104:02
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KotCzarnynow php.04:14
GeneralAntillesIt's in the maemo hacker repo.04:16
KotCzarnyand that means?04:17
Navisomeone should look stuff up04:17
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infobotGeneralAntilles meant: It's in the maemo hackers repo.04:19
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KotCzarnyif there are no wires it's not hacking.04:20
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ynezzdzieky :p04:38
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ynezzNOTE: package kismet-2007-10-R1: completed :D04:49
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NaviThe IM log viewer sucks >_>05:08
GeneralAntillesu suk05:09
NaviIt's only showing one line from each of my conversations05:09
KotCzarnyyou're one-liner05:09
KotCzarnythat's what it thinks of you05:09
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NaviKotCzarny, troll05:09
KotCzarnynah, i'm a bot05:10
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unixSnobSuppose I install Sun xVM (virtualization environment) on a SPARC machine, and create a linux machine.  Is there a chance the maemo SDK installs on that?  I'm not sure if virtualization implies emulation in this case (ie. is an x86 being emulated, or is linux running natively on a SPARC)05:28
KotCzarnywhy not just buy some cheap p3?05:29
KotCzarnythey go for ~20$ now ;)05:29
unixSnobit's not a lack of hardware problem.  I'm looking for an excuse to use my solaris 10 box :)05:30
KotCzarnythen just do it05:30
dospoduse solaris to pwn the web05:30
dospodI like solaris its diffrent05:30
dospodand I like diffrent05:31
dospodits I wish it had more hardware support05:31
unixSnobI have an osx86, linux box, and windows box as well.. but i should actually try to get down to 1 or 2 boxes w/ all the moving i do05:31
dospodI like the java desktop also its pretty cool05:31
shackanI like ponies05:32
dospodosx86 is well dumb u should just buy a mac mini : )05:32
unixSnobwhat does that get me?05:32
shackandon't argue with kids05:32
KotCzarnypowerpc i guess05:32
dospoda box that runs os x natively05:32
dospodand yea dont argue with me : )05:32
unixSnobI built the OSx86 using free after MIR parts, mostly.05:33
dospodmy mini is intel05:33
dospodthat and legit macs are cooler : )05:33
* KotCzarny has b&w g305:33 a closet05:33
unixSnobwait, not sure that running osx natively is any different than what i'm doing05:33
shackanthis really makes you cool, sir05:33
KotCzarnybut runs no problems05:33
unixSnobI'm actually running an old version of Tiger.  so i'm probably losing ground on features by now05:34
dospodidk I just dont like the os x86 project05:35
NaviWhy not?05:35
KotCzarnybecause it's x8605:35
KotCzarny'another clone'05:35
dospodmy mini is x8605:35
unixSnobI heard Apple closed the darwin source as of 10.4.3, yet the osX86 project supports leopard.. how?05:35
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dospodthe os x 86 is really shady and with the wierd hardware support and what not you might as well buy a mac mini05:36
unixSnobI have a b&w g3 too Kot.. and I had to hack it to make Tiger install05:36
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KotCzarnyhmm, tiger is 10.4 ?05:36
KotCzarnyor 10.3 ?05:36
KotCzarnyah, well05:36
KotCzarnyi have played with osx for a few days only05:37
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Navidospod, pfft, Linux is shady with the weird GNU support and what not you might as well buy a tractor05:37
unixSnobThat's why I don't get how there is an osX86 project for Leopard05:37
KotCzarnynice, but not for me05:37
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cLin^hi guys05:37
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dospodlinux is less shady than os x 8605:37
NaviYour face.05:37
KotCzarnylinux runs on alpha05:37
cLinI just bought a N800 and its great05:37
NavicLin, YAY05:38
unixSnobwho cares about shady?  unless you're married to one machine or something05:38
NaviHoorays for cLin05:38
cLinkind of confusing to install some things but yay05:38
shackanunixSnob: maybe he is05:38
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NaviI blame the maemo repo maintainers05:38
dospodi only have one machine05:38
Navithey overcomplicate things on everything05:38
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cLinwhat aresome good catalogs to subscribe to?05:39
Navicheck out
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unixSnobeven w/ one physical machine, you can always run many virtual machines w/ "shady" support05:39
unixSnobOTOH, linux support is better than COTS support, most of the time.05:39
cLinand also, i can't seem to enable RD mode, don't i jsut type sudo flasher --enable-rd-mode in xterm? it asks for a pw and rootme doesn't work05:39
KotCzarnywhy would you need rd mode?05:40
cLintrying to install python, to install mclock05:40
unixSnobI recall posting to a mailing list for an obscure linux tool "would be nice if the tool did this..."  The developer added the feature and sent me a copy w/in a day.  I could not pay for better support.05:40
KotCzarnyyou don't need rd mode for that05:41
NaviunixSnob, yeah, gotta love Linux devs.05:41
cLinit says i need i though? how do i install it then?05:41
KotCzarnyjust add: deb chinook free05:41
cLinneed it*05:41
unixSnobThat was the LaTeX to RTF convertor tool, btw.05:41
NaviLol, RTF05:41
KotCzarnyalso enable extras05:42
unixSnobI had a prof that mandated word doc submissions.  Thats y i needed rtf05:42
KotCzarnythen just update reps and you should have python in app-manager05:42
cLinhow do i enable it?the disable box is unchecked05:42
KotCzarnybtw. do you have os2008 or another?05:43
cLini just updated it05:44
cLini just literally installed os2008 so i have a 16gig sd card and nothing on both the tablet and the card05:44
cLini also got a gps receievr so im hoping to get everything setup :DD05:44
cLinthis is by far the coolest gadget i have gotten for a long time05:45
cLinwhich python packaage? ther'es -edje-demo, feedparser and pyinotify05:45
KotCzarnyjust install app that would need python05:46
KotCzarnyand it should get what it needs05:46
cLinwhich app would have it?05:47
KotCzarnywhich app you want to use?05:47
cLinmclock, but i dont see it..05:47
unixSnobcan't stand Sun's website.. so much marketing bullshit, and no where to click to get the real info.05:48
KotCzarnyclin: where do you look?05:48
KotCzarnygo to app-manager05:49
KotCzarnyand browse installable apps05:49
cLinim there05:50
unixSnobSupposedly the reason Apple closed the Darwin kernel was to stop osX86 hackers - but considering there is leopard x86 hacked distros, they apparently just alienated the legit development projects05:52
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fysaimagine that.05:57
fysaand here I am shopping a P1620 just for OS X.05:58
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unixSnobi'm glad you mentioned that.. someone was telling me about some super light fujitsu the other day, and he didn't know the model name06:00
unixSnobthat looks like just what he was talking about.. i have to check that out06:00
KotCzarnyhmm, super light? macbook air?06:01
unixSnobhe said they were going for under $200 on ebay06:01
KotCzarnywell, maybe not light, but thin06:01
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NaviMy N800 is extremely warm to the touch <_<06:03
KotCzarnynavi: warm or hot?06:03
Naviwarmish hot06:03
KotCzarnyever heard of exploding batteries?06:03
Naviit's not on the side where the battery is06:03
KotCzarnyhow would you operate it after it rips off your fingers?06:04
Naviit's the right edge where the processor is, along with the top where I assume something else is >_>06:04
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unixSnobfysa - do you plan to put virtual box or vmware on that?06:06
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desertcos2008 --- sooo nice06:06
desertcI am convinced now that everyone needs an N800  =)06:07
* KotCzarny needs n81006:07
desertcjust for the gps ?06:08
KotCzarnyfor the keyboard06:08
desertcoh -- meh - I use this tablet when I am on the go.  not wanting to do typing on the road06:09
Navithe slide out keyboard is a plus, even without much typing06:09
Naviand the screen06:09
desertcdoes OS2008 have a built in irc client?06:09
KotCzarnypidgin or xchat06:09
johnxor rtcomm beta06:10
KotCzarnybut i prefer epic06:10
KotCzarny(and ssh)06:10
Navipidgin sucks06:10
desertcoh right, pidgin -- where is that program hiding?06:10
KotCzarnyin app-manager06:10
desertc( I use pidgin for my desktop chat )06:11
unixSnobpidgin sucks for non-english use.. but it's good otherwise.. supports OTR06:11
Navipidgin sucks for IRC use06:12
KotCzarnypidgin sucks06:12
desertcI don't see pidgin in the app manager06:12
Navirtcomm beats pidgin at everything else06:12
KotCzarnydesertc, add rep06:13
desertcanyway, I already have google talk in os2008, so I guess I don't need it06:13
johnxdesertc, un-disable extras in tools -> app catalog06:13
desertcokay, thanks johnx06:13
desertcthe map application is nice - even without gps06:14
desertctoo bad you can't get gps data from the cell phone via bluetooth06:14
johnxdesertc, you could with an n7306:15
* johnx leaves06:15
desertclxdoom - nice  ;)06:15
KotCzarnydeesertc: maemo-map is nicer06:15
cLinhow come on maemo mapper the google street zoom level 1-3 don't auto download frequently? it's all pixelated and im on my wireless connection at home which is pretty fast06:15
KotCzarnyclin: options06:16
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KotCzarnyuncheck pixel doubling06:16
KotCzarnyalso you can select levels 1 and 3 if you need06:16
cLinalso, what zoom levels you guys recommend getting?06:16
cLinim about to leave this on overnight to download some maps and man, i selected 2,3,4,5,6 and it was 8 gigs06:16
cLinoh sure.06:17
desertclxdoom is one of those things you can show to people - they will instantly understand how powerful the system is06:17
KotCzarnylxdoom? powerfull?06:17
KotCzarnyit ran on 48606:17
KotCzarnyeven on amiga!06:17
cLinis the nokia maps program any good?06:17
cLinshould i bother getting maps on it?06:17
desertcbut it sets the computers apart from the cellphones06:17
KotCzarny(which was 14mhz)06:17
KotCzarnyclin: use maemo-mapper06:18
KotCzarnydesertc: not true06:18
KotCzarnythere are no pure cellphones anymore06:18
desertcthe new media player is much better in os200806:18
desertcKotCzarny: yes, but can they play doom?06:18
KotCzarnyi guess06:18
cLinand which zoom levels? anything different between VE/google and openstreet or is itpreference?06:19
desertcwell - until I see doom running, then it's just a cell phone  :)  :) :)06:19
rm_youGeneralAntilles: lol06:21
cLinstrange, i selected 3,5,7 zoom level and the map size is 12 megs06:23
KotCzarnydon't forget to configure every map provider06:24
KotCzarnythey don't share options06:24
cLinwhat if i just want google streets06:24
KotCzarnythen configure google streets06:24
desertcplays nice too - no buttons for turning tho06:25
cLinfor turning?06:25
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cLindo any of them have that?06:25
desertctalking about doom06:25
cLinKotCzarny, how big was your map data?06:26
KotCzarnyNokia-N800-51-3:/media/mmc2/Maps# du -sh06:26
KotCzarny501.6M  .06:26
cLinim still trying to figure out why it sso small. people have told me its around 1 gig06:26
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cLinis that assuming you get all zoom levels or something?06:27
KotCzarnygo to zoom level 16 and download levels 4-1606:27
cLinconfirm download of 696 maps06:27
cLin4-16 zoom level selected06:27
cLinim under the manage map option for google street06:28
KotCzarnyenable downloading levels 1-2006:28
KotCzarnywhen go for 1-1606:28
cLinconfiorm download of 21k maps06:28
cLin246 megs06:28
cLinexactly what region is this downloading?06:28
KotCzarnycentered on your position06:28
cLinthat explains it06:28
KotCzarnymove map if you want another06:28
cLinhow would i get like all of US?06:29
cLinor if anything, california06:29
KotCzarnyzoom out till you see region you want06:29
cLinoh, ok06:29
KotCzarnyand command it to download all the zoom levels06:29
desertcyou know, I bought my N800 after seeing so many people using it at linuxfest northwest last year06:29
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* KotCzarny bought it after seeing it for 150$ on craigslist06:29
desertcI figured it was going to be a good thing, with so many linux people using it06:30
cLinholy shit06:30
cLin12 gigs06:30
KotCzarnyclin: happy now?06:30
cLinfuck no :P06:30
shackandesertc: and it was?06:30
KotCzarnyone tip: select even levels only06:30
desertcgot way more than I ever thought this was going to do06:30
cLinwhats the reason?06:30
cLini actually selected 3,5,7,1606:31
cLinshould i do 2,4,6,14?06:31
KotCzarnywithout 206:31
KotCzarnyi guess 4 is enough06:31
cLinlets see what 4 is again06:31
cLinvs 206:31
desertcshackan: with os2008 - I am overjoyed -- this is starting to cross the line of 'too good to be true'06:31
cLinoh, 4 is fine06:32
cLinso 4,6,14?06:32
KotCzarnydesertc: short battery life06:32
KotCzarnyclin: whatever suits you06:32
KotCzarnymake it 4,6,8,10,12,1406:32
cLinhow is maemo mapper for a gps system anyways?06:32
KotCzarnyshouldn't be much more than 4,6,1406:32
cLindoes it talk?06:32
KotCzarnyclin: yes, i guess06:32
KotCzarnylook in the options/help06:32
KotCzarnyyou will have to install flit i think06:33
cLinwhats flit?06:33
KotCzarnyi don't know, but docs say it's needed for speech synth06:34
KotCzarnysorry, 'flite'06:34
cLinyea, i see it06:35
desertcso - maemo mapper will connect with my cellphone, but my cellphone won't give up the GPS information06:35
desertcso cheap!06:35
desertcI know you have it!  There must be ways of making you talk!06:35
cLinthere isnt a way to download this off my desktop and move it to the card is there?06:36
desertcAll cellphone have GPS tracked.  It's such a shame they won't give that information to the user.06:37
KotCzarnyclin: i don't know, but what's the problem?06:37
cLinpress ok and it stalls, then closes06:38
cLinwhen downloading06:38
KotCzarnybtw. have you changed map dir to sd card?06:38
KotCzarnyon / you have only ~100mb06:38
cLini believe so, under repository right?06:38
cLinoh, is it the file path under options?06:39
KotCzarnymanage repositories -> cache db06:39
cLinits on my mmc1 card06:39
KotCzarnydownload is in another place06:40
KotCzarnyremove all you map reps06:40
KotCzarnythen click download 'once'06:40
KotCzarnythen configure it06:40
KotCzarnythen close opts06:40
cLini did that06:41
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KotCzarnythen go to manage maps and select zoom levels06:41
KotCzarnyand after ok it should start downloading06:41
xuserI bought the N810 thinking it was a phone!06:41
KotCzarnyxuser: it can be one06:42
KotCzarnyif you buy wifi data plan06:42
cLinKotCzarny, i found out why06:42
KotCzarnyand use skype06:42
desertcplaying with maemo mapper makes me suddenly want a N810 really badly06:42
cLinapparently 793845 MB != 793 mbs06:42
KotCzarnyor just hack into some hotspot06:42
cLinwow, california has a lot of data06:42
xuserKotCzarny: i was hoping something of GSM/3G06:42
desertcxuser: I use my N800 as a phone very often - so cheap06:43
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desertcI pay $10 every couple months for my calls06:43
KotCzarnyxuser, no problem, connect via bluetooth06:43
cLinjesus why is this so big06:43
KotCzarnythen put the phone in the backpack06:43
KotCzarnyclin: zoom in06:43
xuserKotCzarny: yeah, looks like i have to carry to devices now.06:44
desertcI put my phone and tablet in my pant pocket together - I tell people I carry the Internet in my pocket06:44
cLinforget it06:44
desertcpeople then look at me funny and move away quickly, but - hey - price of progress06:44
cLinill skip zoom lvl 406:44
KotCzarnyclin: do it in steps, fe. zoom to 16, dl 16,14,12,10; zoom to 10, dl 10,8,6,406:44
xuserdesertc: heh06:44
cLini dont need to see license plates06:44
desertcxuser - I make VoIP calls over my cell phone's internet connection06:45
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fysawhich cell provider?06:45
cLinunder the manage repository, what does download/view zoom steps mean06:46
KotCzarnyclin: read help06:46
desertcoh, and please look into SIP calls - try and get away from proprietary Skype protocol06:46
xuserdesertc: yeah, I understand what you say, but imagin a N810 with GSM integrated, would be awesome.06:46
KotCzarnyxuser: gsm is rural, hotspots are the way of the future06:47
desertcxuser: imagine public WiFi being everywhere - then we wouldn't have to pay the cell phone companies at all06:47
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KotCzarnydesertc: not true06:47
KotCzarnyit would be true with mesh network06:47
desertcKotCzarny: well - you would pay the cell phone companies, and we would laugh06:48
unixSnobWired has a good article on hotspots.. has a map of all free munipal wifi cities06:48
xuseranyway its better than carrying my laptop everywhere.06:48
desertcxuser: HELL YES06:48
KotCzarnycould use more battery life though06:48
desertcI gave up my laptop and use my N800 happily smirking at people pulling 8 lbs laptops out of their bag06:48
KotCzarnyi wouldn't mind 1-2cm06:48
desertcKotCzarny: mine runs for 2-3 days on one charge, you?06:49
KotCzarnybut i use it all the time06:49
KotCzarny(wifi on)06:49
xuserhow do I become root?06:49
desertcmy wifi is on all the time, too06:49
KotCzarnyxuser: install ssh and login into it06:49
xuserKotCzarny: I installed ssh but only the client part :/06:50
KotCzarnythen add server part too06:50
desertceven when the screen is off, I can SSH into the device06:50
KotCzarnydesertc: i test apps on it06:50
KotCzarnyso screen is on most of the time06:50
desertcoh, gotcha!06:50
xuserhow do I see which IP is using, i can't 'ifconfig'06:50
KotCzarnyalso i have 2 cards06:50
KotCzarnyxuser: there should be a info06:51
desertcyeah, I just browse the web 3 or 4 times a day, and make 1 voip call on it each day.  I get 2-3 days out of it06:51
desertc*out of a charge06:51
desertcbut when I listen to audio or watch youtube, the battery does drain very fast06:52
xuserKotCzarny: yeah, found it.06:52
desertcmaybe you need a hand crank, ala one laptop per child  ;)06:52
KotCzarnyalso, do /sbin/ifconfig06:52
xuserjust getting the hang of it :)06:52
KotCzarnydesertc: maybe, solar/thermal panels would be cooler06:52
desertcwell - I just came in the sing the praises of OS200806:53
* desertc departs while a choir of angles sing in a halo of light of the OS2008 GUI screen.06:54
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xuserhe's in love whith the tablet06:55
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ol_schoolajust wait until he gets an AppleTV06:57
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^Jsn^Hey does anyone else have problems viewing certain pages on the n810?  I am on the maemo download page, and I have a page for a certain download pulled up on my laptop, then i pulled it up on my IT and it only shows half of the page on my n810.  I'm wondering if i have the settings wrong for the web browser?07:02
KotCzarnyhalf of the page?07:02
^Jsn^yeah the top half07:02
^Jsn^i've realoaded it a few times and have changed the zoom to 80% but it still doesn't show the whole page07:03
KotCzarnybad css/html ?07:03
^Jsn^could be07:04
^Jsn^do you know if there is a way to add tabbed browsing to the browser on the n810?  I could have swarn that i read in one of the reviews that it has tabbed browsing07:04
^Jsn^nothing within the tablet?07:05
^Jsn^maybe a plugin or somethin?07:05
KotCzarnyor just wait till someone hack firefox into it07:05
^Jsn^the included browser is a mozilla browser07:05
KotCzarnybut only a gecko07:06
KotCzarnyie. renderer but not gui07:06
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^Jsn^does vncviewer work better than rdesktop?07:07
KotCzarnyrdesktop is for win/m$07:08
^Jsn^no i have the client for maemo07:08
KotCzarnymy stylus fell inside heating appliance07:08
^Jsn^damn that's gotta suck07:08
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Tama^2that's gotta melt07:11
ol_schoolawhat kinda heating appliance?07:12
KotCzarnyi can't see it :/07:13
ol_schoola^Jsn^ vncviewer only sees vnc servers proper, the MS remote desktop is <drumroll> proprietary07:15
ol_schoolaactually, IIRC they plugged citrix into a MS logo and called it go, or I could be wrong, stopped caring long ago07:15
ol_schoolayou can turn up a vnc server on winbox if needed, that's what i do07:16
KotCzarnyyeah. tightvnc07:17
KotCzarnydamn stylus.07:17
ol_schoolawhaqt i and my family uses (i make em if they want support ;)07:17
ol_schoolaand on the upside, they all now know how to poke holes in the router when needed07:18
KotCzarnyssh -R07:18
ol_schoolaKotCzarny: you get it out?07:18
KotCzarnyi can't locate it07:19
ol_schoolacan you pick up the appliance?07:19
ol_schoolawhat is it?07:19
KotCzarnykind of pipes that run across the wall07:19
ol_schoolaradiant hot water?07:19
KotCzarnyand some casing07:19
ol_schooladismantle, retrieve, reassemble07:20
KotCzarnyit's old and rusty07:20
ol_schoolaif it's hot water and it's just a local loop and fin-tube radiator, you can do little harm pulling off the cover07:21
ol_schoolaoh, i see. cast iron?07:21
ol_schoolaif it's a standup cast iron job (like This Old House) with a sheetmetal box over it, yank off the box, you won't hurt the radiator unless there is some thermostat (modern) thingy been added to it07:22
KotCzarnyi can make a photo, but believe me, i can't get inside without damaging it07:23
ol_schoolaKotCzarny: you're not in the US then, eh?07:24
KotCzarnyi am07:24
ol_schoolahrmmm. you in a house/apt/dorm/what?07:24
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ol_schooladescribew the unit (I actually am in the HVAC business)07:25
KotCzarnylike i said, pipes across the wall07:25
KotCzarnywnad some housing07:25
ol_schoolaat the floor?07:26
ol_schoolaaluminum or steel fin tube surrounding pipe?07:26
KotCzarnydon't know07:27
KotCzarnyit's dirty07:27
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ol_schoolais it covered in an old dried cloth tape that's been painted a zillion times?07:27
KotCzarny'dried cloth' ?07:27
ol_schoolaare the pipes wrapped with mummified insulation?07:28
KotCzarnyand some stuff, maybe azbestos07:28
ol_schoolaok, that's good. what idescribed is old school asbestos insulation, which is very bad07:28
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godzirraSoooo.. if you have KDE running, is there no on screen keyboard?07:29
ol_schoolai can't type fast enough, if you have construction from before 1978, it could be07:29
KotCzarnyit's dirty enough to be that old07:29
ol_schoolaif you think it's asbestos insulation, leave it the f*ck alone, that's the WORST kind07:29
ol_schoolathat particular application of asbestos (old hot water pipes) is the kind that breaks up into fine dust very easily, baaaad stuff07:30
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ol_schoolasucvked down more than i want to remember as a kid in the 70's helping out the old man07:31
KotCzarnymy stylus.. gone..07:32
cLinwhen using maemo mapper, if the region i start heading into has no data for that zoom level, does it automatically zoom out?07:32
ol_schoolahaven't gone the KDE route, can't help07:32
ol_schoolacLine: not in my exp07:33
cLinso what happens exactly?07:33
cLinit goes black?07:33
ol_schoolaGoes to white for me, but this is several versions ago, i haven't used my gps since new year's07:34
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^Jsn^i'm having a problem installing a package on my n810.  I'm trying to install gdata-python runtime files.  I went to  and searched for it.  It came up with the maemo extra's repository.  I have already enabled the extras repository in the applications manager so i went and refreshed the applications list.  When i search the installable apps for python all i get is "python2.5-edje-demo"07:35
ol_schoolaKotCzarny: leave that thing alone. that's a fan coil. you don't want to tangle with that. it will be a lot cheaper to whittle a new one07:35
^Jsn^any ideas?07:35
godzirraI wonder if there's a maemo version of nethack.07:36
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KotCzarnymy stylus :/07:36
KotCzarnygodzirra: compile one yourself07:36
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KotCzarnybut unless you have n810 or bt keyboard that would suck07:37
ol_schoolai kinda share your pain. sadly, i need to source a screen for my 17" mbp, i broke it07:37
KotCzarnyand it was stupid way to lose it07:38
KotCzarnyi was wiping my desk07:38
godzirraYeah, I can't imagine it would be very good to play with an on screen keyboard.07:38
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godzirraAnd while I could talk my boss into buying me an n800, I couldnt swing an 81007:38
ol_schoolaheh, i was wiping my feet (when me and the lappy came crashing down)07:38
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KotCzarnyjsn: don't know, wrong repo?07:39
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^Jsn^does anyone know of another repository for gdata-python?07:39
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ol_schoolajsn: 1st your nick is difficult to parse with a ^ in it and...07:40
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ol_schoola...second, you could try plugging the repo URL into your browser and rooting around a bit.07:40
cLinis there anyway to edit the booksmarks on my desktop and move it onto the n800?07:40
ol_schoolawhile gronmayer is useful, it isn't entirely up to date07:41
KotCzarnyclin: install ssh-server07:41
ol_schoolayou're in a fine mood KotCzarny07:42
KotCzarnythen use scp07:42
godzirraI got an email from xbox live:  "HD DVD Player, now only 49.99!*"  The asterisk says "Note:  Production has been discontinued.  Available HD-DVD content will be limited and subjected to studio availability"07:42
godzirraHow the mighty have fallen07:42
KotCzarnythey will boost sales07:42
KotCzarnywith that price07:42
KotCzarnythen it will be back07:43
Tama^2yes, and then say that the sales for xbox acessory have increased lol07:43
KotCzarnybut seriously07:43
KotCzarnyit would need hd-dvd-r07:43
KotCzarnyto catch the audience07:43
KotCzarny(for 50$)07:43
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ol_schoolai'm sure they (Toshiba) will find another use for the tech. there's a lot of Sony Beta ENG gear out there today07:44
godzirraNo it won't.07:44
godzirraIt will continue to fail because studios are refusing to adopt it.07:44
ol_schoolathe distribution format might, the technology is still very useful07:45
cLinalso, do i need ot install screen? it says -sh screen: not found07:45
cLini want to use irssi for irc07:45
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doc|homewe do cd/dvd manufacturing and blu-ray sucks. You *have* to use their copy protection and pay 2.5k for the privilege, even though it's already broken07:45
ol_schoolawell, the distibution format DID fail, i should correct myself07:45
KotCzarnyclin: sure07:45
* godzirra nods.07:45
KotCzarnywhere can one buy n800 stylus?07:46
godzirra2.5k isn't that bad for a license agreement to manufacture blu ray.07:46
ol_schooladoc|home: the only people that win are the founders of the consortiums. even the studios have to pay ;)07:46
KotCzarnyis it n770/n810 compatible?07:46
doc|homeKotCzarny: where are you located? and no, they're different07:46
cLinsure? as in i need to? do i find that on
doc|homeKotCzarny: I can't find a place in north america that sells them, if you find a place please let me know :/07:46
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godzirraKotCzarny: Well, last time i checked, they were in stock at Nokias european web shop. Where you live, and where you can get them from, i don't know.07:47
godzirraaccording to the itt forums07:47
ol_schoolagodzirra: that's punch out the discs, the manufacturers pay 10's of thousands07:47
godzirraol_schoola: ouch.07:47
ol_schoolatat's to puch07:47
godzirraol_schoola: ok, that is a little silly.07:47
KotCzarnyi can ask friend in poland to boy them for me07:47
godzirraKotCzarny: that was cut and paste frmo the forums.  I personally have no clue :)07:47
ol_schoolait's a freaking joke, but it's what's kept a portion of the entertainment economy aflot for decades now07:48
KotCzarnyi guess it will be generic then07:48
godzirraHmm.. that was also 2007.07:48
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doc|homeI tried on the Irish nokia site (I'm irish but living in canada) and they don't seem to be available, I'm considering finding a place that will make them and getting a batch of clones made if it's not too expensive07:48
KotCzarnygeneric would be cheaper i think07:49
godzirraPost on the internettabletalk forums.  You'd probably find a few people willing to go in with you.07:49
doc|homeKotCzarny: yeah, but you can't find generic ones either :/07:49
KotCzarnystylus dilers07:49
doc|homeor at least I couldn't07:49
KotCzarnydoc: generic-pda stylus07:49
doc|homeKotCzarny: yeah, but they won't slot into the back, which is something I'd really miss07:49
godzirraWow. nokia has all sorts of useless crap on their site07:50
KotCzarnybetter than nothing07:50
godzirrabut no stylus.07:50
doc|homeKotCzarny: aye07:50
doc|homegodzirra: yep07:50
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vetetixhi everyone, i've got a problem with my n810: i have no sound during calls (either gtalk calls or gizmo)07:53
vetetixi have normal sound, like music and everything07:53
vetetixand i have sound during dialing (ring ring sound)07:54
vetetixbut as soon as the call starts, i have no sound anymore07:55
vetetixneither me nor my correspondant hears anything07:55
vetetixcan someone help me ?07:55
cLinanoter maemo mapper question. with no internet anywhere, how can i get routes? it seems it  runs it throuhg a website to find the route07:56
vetetixcLin, maybe you can download routes in advance07:57
vetetixprepare your trip when you still have an internet connection07:58
cLinwell im thinking of on the spot07:58
cLinlike if im lost somewhere, i can pull this out07:58
cLinso im guessing there'sno way to do it?07:58
vetetixi'd say no07:58
cLinwell i have my cruddy data plan but ifigure ill see if there's a non internet way first07:59
vetetixbut i've never used it (i've read the documentation though)07:59
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cLinyou dont use gps?07:59
vetetixi tried it once, with wayfinder08:00
^Jsn^does anyone know if there is a way to turn the backlight off when the n810 is turned off but plugged in?  Even though the backlight is black it is still illuminated with the pluged-in icon on the screen08:00
cLini thought u had to pay for wayfinder08:01
KotCzarnyjsn: display options?08:01
vetetixno, the maps are "free"08:01
^Jsn^no it's not in there08:01
NaviYou only have to pay for it if you want turn-by-turn directions08:01
godzirraWow. KDE is kind of ugly on the n800.08:01
KotCzarnyon n800 there is08:02
godzirraAnd I can't figure out how to get an on screen keyboard..  Hrm.08:02
KotCzarnydisplay and leds -> display stays lit -> never08:02
godzirraSo out of curiousity, what does everyone use their maemo device for?  Its a very odd device.08:02
cLingps once ig et it working08:02
vetetixnobody for my sound problem?08:02
cLinthe playing videos part is nice08:02
Navigodzirra, email/rss08:02
pupnikGet a bluetooth keyboard and use it as a computer godzirra08:03
KotCzarnygodzirra: i will use it as a media player/irc/browser/ebook reader08:03
KotCzarnyand skype calling to europe08:03
cLinNavi, what rss reader do you use?08:03
Navibuilt-in one08:03
cLinactually, it'll be nice if i can somehow integrate my feeds from google reader into this08:03
cLinbut i dont want to enter in each feed08:04
godzirraNavi: I can't get it to check my company's gmail. :(08:04
NaviUse modest08:04
godzirraI dunno why.  Clawz never connects.  What mail program do you use?08:04
cLinwhats modest?08:04
Navian email client08:04
Navifor fuck's sake.08:05
NaviJesus Christ08:05
godzirraI wish I could get ereader on here.  without it being palm emulated.08:06
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cLinanyone know if i use an email client with gmail and check my email, would it reflect as read on gmail server so when I login to it won't show me emails i have read as unreader08:06
KotCzarnygodzirra: fbreader08:06
godzirraIt doesn't read ereader formatted books.08:06
* cLin shakes fist08:06
KotCzarnygodzirra: convert?08:06
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godzirraHeh.  DRM ftl.08:06
NavicLin, I haven't found any clients that do that.08:06
KotCzarnyfsck drm08:07
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cLinNavi, figured. might as well ask08:07
KotCzarnydownload ebooks from p2p08:07
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unixSnobeVince would be better.. supports Djvu files in addition to pdf08:07
cLinonly one i know of is google mail for mobile :)08:07
cLinwish they would make one for n80008:07
godzirraI'm in the ebook industry.  That'd be "bad form"08:07
KotCzarnyhmm, as for google mail.. use browser?08:07
Navigo ahead08:07
KotCzarnygodzirra: drm is bad.08:07
godzirraThe company I work for is pushing for more drm free ebooks.08:08
cLinKotCzarny, yes, of course, but if its an email client, there's a better chance there's some sort of visual/audio notification08:08
cLinunless they have google mail notifier for this08:08
vetetixstill nobody for my sound problem? :-(08:08
KotCzarnygoogle mail supports pop3/imap08:08
godzirraNavi: Where can I get modest?08:08
KotCzarnyso any email client will do08:08
NaviThe modest repository.08:08
cLinKotCzarny,  i know but thats not my question08:08
KotCzarnyand what it was?08:08
godzirraThats helpful. ;)08:09
cLinim saying if icheck my emails for today on the email client, would it show as read when i login to gmail.com08:09
unixSnobThe whole point of eBooks is drm.  They want shrink wrap EULAs on books.08:09
KotCzarnyclin: that depends on your email client's configuration08:09
godzirraunixSnob: Most publishers refuse to release books in ebook format without some sort of drm, unfortunately.08:09
KotCzarnyyou can set it up any way you like08:09
cLinso it possible?08:09
cLini always thought it wasn't08:09
KotCzarnyclin: yes08:10
cLinis it possible on the built in mail client?08:10
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KotCzarnyi don't know08:10 the built in mail client even any good?08:10
KotCzarnyi use yahoo08:10
unixSnobThe idea is that everyone switches to eBooks, signs EULAs that hard book reading consumers would never sign, and then phase out the hard book08:10
cLinwhat option am i looking for08:11
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KotCzarny'leave mail on server'08:11
KotCzarnyand 'mark as read ..'08:11
doc|homeunixSnob: nah, it'll never happen, there'll be an option to buy non-drm e-books, just like there'll be an option to download non-drm music08:11
godzirraThere is an option now to buy non drm usic.08:11
unixSnobDRM for books is entirely different08:11
doc|homegodzirra: sure, at a greater cost08:12
doc|homeamazon's not great either08:12
cLinoh god, finally finished downloading maps08:12
* doc|home should add a disclaimer that he's working on such a system due to release in a matter of weeks :)08:12
godzirraYou didn't sasy there wasn't a good option to buy drm music.  You said there wasn't one :)08:12
cLinif i leave on auto download, would it check for a data file first and download if none exist or does it go straight todownload map08:12
unixSnobWe've already seen that the motion picture industry is not following the music industry08:12
doc|homegodzirra: hehe, fair point08:12
doc|homeunixSnob: not yet08:12
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doc|homeunixSnob: their time will come too08:13
unixSnobthat's what they want you to think08:13
godzirraSo I went through all this truoble to install KDE on the n800, and it is kind of sucktastic.08:13
NaviMotion picture industry not following the music industry?08:13
cLini was going to try out KDE08:14
NaviBlu-ray discs are fucking DRMed08:14
cLinheard it was slow though08:14
godzirraWell, for one, I can't find a way to bring up an onscreen keyboard.08:14
godzirraand it is hellaciously slow.08:14
unixSnobThere's an article in wired this month talking about it.08:14
godzirraunixSnob: how is the motion picture industry not following music?08:14
doc|homeNavi: a drm which was broken... and by the way, have you looked at a torrent site recently? I'd expect it's hard to find a mainstream movie which isn't on piratebay or somesuch08:15
NaviBlu-ray movies are DRMed, and it's not your standard DRM.  It's got a public/private key system on top of that.08:15
doc|homeNavi: one which has been broken08:15
dookdooki heard that the nokia n800 has a hardware limitation that it can really only process a movie file at 30fps if its around 400x240 (half the screen) but will start to bog down if its full (800x480).  has anyone else heard this?08:15
doc|homedookdook: there are limits but there's a really nice conversion script08:16
unixSnobi still have to read the article.  that was just the abstract of it08:16
doc|homedookdook: look for tablet encode or tablet_encode on garage.maemo.org08:16
dookdookdoc|home, thanks, but i'm not so interested in the scripts to lower the resolution to the movie files as i am about understand the limitation08:17
doc|homeit's pretty good, only thing it didn't do was add indexing so you can skip through a movie08:17
dookdooki've played doom at full resolution, and it works is it accomplishing that?08:17
doc|homedookdook: hmm, not sure, but the proc is only a 400mhz and video is cpu intensive if it's not GPU accelerated08:17
dookdook(sorry, quake)08:17
Navidookdook, it doesn't matter if it's been broken. My point was that the film industry is following the music industry.08:18
unixSnobit's talking about Apple's movies still being DRM'd.. they can only be watched on apple products08:18
dookdooknavi, wha?08:18
godzirrawell yeah.08:19
godzirrathe only big thing apple has going over it vs. zune (besides size) is that their store is better.08:19
KotCzarnyunixsnob: which ones?08:19
unixSnobthe article is basically saying the film industry needs to go drm-free, but so far no sign of it08:19
godzirraif you could watch itunes media on any other media player, apple would die.08:19
infobotNavi meant: doc|homedook, it doesn't matter if it's been broken. My point was that the film industry is following the music industry.08:19
dookdookdoc|home, so you think quake is using the gpu and thats how it gets the speed that it does whereas things like mplayer or whatever use just the cpu?08:19
unixSnobarticle didn't specify which hardware08:19
Navidookdook, there's no hardware acceleration.08:20
dookdooknavi, so how does quake run so fast?08:20
KotCzarnydefine 'fast'08:20
Naviquake was designed to run on ancient hardware08:20
dookdookmaybe i misjudged..30fps?08:20
Naviwe have a 400MHz ARM core to work with08:21
doc|homedookdook: no idea to be honest, but quake was designed back when 400mhz would have been a very fast processor. High res movies were only possible, well, actually, only about 8 years ago without hardware acceleration08:21
Naviit's enough to run Quake at decent speeds08:21
KotCzarnymplayer can manage quite well08:21
unixSnobha, and amazon's and netflix versions of movie downloads can be watched on most devices, /except/ apple.08:21
doc|homeyeah, the quality is more than good enough when transcoded08:21
godzirraI havent tried amazon's or netflix's download.  Are they any good?08:22
Navidookdook, google around, you'll find that the reason video quality sucks is due to the bus from the CPU to the LCD controller08:22
godzirraand how do they keep people from just ripping them and posting them on the net?08:22
Navidookdook, otherwise, it would of been able to run videos fine08:22
unixSnob"Hollywood is determined to protect DVD sales at the expense of electronic downloads"08:23
unixSnob(from the article)08:23
dookdooknavi, yeah, i think thats what i heard...08:23
dookdookbut i'm still confused as to how quake gets around that limitation (if it does at all?)08:23
unixSnobNone of the online download services offers anything close to the 90,000 available by mail.08:24
godzirrai'm sure they don't.08:24
unixSnob5k avail on amazon, and 6k avail for instant netflix viewing08:24
godzirraYeah.  Not even close.08:25
unixSnob1,000 on itunes08:25
Navidookdook, lower resolution08:26
Naviwell, it's being upscaled.08:26
^Jsn^has anyone installed gdata client yet?08:27
godzirrawhats gdata?08:27
unixSnobRichard Stallman has a good talk regarding eBooks08:27
^Jsn^google data. it allows you to sync gpe calender with google calender08:27
dookdooknavi, i see, thanks.  so how does that upscaling work exactly?  you can't just write four of the same pixel to the framebuffer, right?  how do they accomplish it?08:27
unixSnobi bought into his conspiracy theory on the spot08:28
Navidookdook, pixel doubling08:28
dookdooknavi, is it like an option that you set in the hardware somewhere, so that the hardware knows to cound whatever pixel your write as double?08:29
godzirraNavi: is there a way to tell it to leave the messages on the server?  in Modest I mean?08:30
Naviusing pop3, tick the "leave messages on servers" box, wherever it may be in the settings08:31
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godzirraif it was that easy I'd have foudn it already :)  As long as there is one, I 'll find it though.08:32
godzirraah found it08:32
godzirraHrm.  Not fetching my messages.  But no errors.  odd.08:34
cLinhow do i force an app to close08:35
KotCzarnyor killall08:35
cLinno gui or shortcut?08:35
KotCzarnyuse terminal08:35
KotCzarnyand ps ax08:35
KotCzarnythen kill08:35
godzirraHrm.  I guess you can't use pop over gmail for domains.08:37
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^Jsn^what is the default root password for the n810?08:45
KotCzarny-vo null makes 720x448 video play smooth08:47
KotCzarnyi mean -ao null08:47
Navi-vo null makes it very smooth08:47
czrit uses the 0x0 pixel offscreen rendering trick? ;-)08:47
KotCzarnybut seriously, -ao null made it smooth08:48
KotCzarnyOpening audio decoder: [dspmp3] MP3 audio pass-through for Nokia 770/N800 (fake decoder)08:48
czrKotCzarny, how many fps?08:48
KotCzarnyVIDEO:  [XVID]  720x448  12bpp  23.976 fps  571.9 kbps (69.8 kbyte/s)08:48
czrhmm. the dsp is used for video decoding as well I guess?08:48
KotCzarnyaudio decoding08:48
Navicool, I'll have to chex quest it out08:48
czrah. hmm.08:48
KotCzarnybut it fails at open08:48
KotCzarnyOpening audio decoder: [dspmp3] MP3 audio pass-through for Nokia 770/N800 (fake decoder)08:48
KotCzarnyADecoder preinit failed :(08:49
KotCzarnyand then it falls back to libmad08:49
NaviI hate this computer08:49
Naviit's been four hours and webkit's still not done08:49
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godzirranight folks.08:53
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KotCzarnystopping media-launcher reboots the device09:06
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NaviKotCzarny, hei, you're right09:10
leif__Navi, WebKit? What are you building?09:10
Naviit's not that bad with -ao null09:11
Navileif__, just building webkit with --use-hildon09:11
KotCzarnyalso killing esd helps a little09:11
leif__pls report back, i've been waiting to hear about someone trying that09:11
NaviI just want to mess around with the demo browser it comes with09:12
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Navistill framedrops a bit09:12
KotCzarnyfeeding mp3 stream to dsp would be nice :/09:12
Navihave you tried?09:13
Navi-ao dsp :P09:14
^Jsn^what is the command to exit RD mode?09:14
Navi^Jsn^, huh?09:15
ZicI'm looking to the Moblin project, it seems to have some great feature ; I don't know it before09:15
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^Jsn^you have to enter rd mode to get into root access of the n810.  once your finished, how do you end the session so that you are sure that you are logged out of root mode09:16
KotCzarny-ao gst -ac dspmp309:16
KotCzarnybut it fails09:16
Navibut it runs at such a nice framerate :309:17
leif__does anyone know the status of WebKit for EAL? It was available in collabora's git repo, but then it disappeared (without any explanation that I've been able to find)09:19
* Navi shrugs09:20
Navicould of been gobbled up by the monster09:20
KotCzarnymaybe it fails because audio stream is aac09:21
KotCzarnyor it isn't.09:21
Navimy avi's mp309:21
Naviit can't find the dspmp3 codec09:21
KotCzarnyi wonder why it fails09:21
* Navi adds it to the list of things to build and install09:22
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Navithe people of the past talked about it as well.09:23
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Naviah, that's right09:25
NaviI haven't installed libgst yet09:25
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KotCzarnyi did09:26
KotCzarnyunless you are talking about something else09:26
NaviI have it too, nevermind >_>09:27
cLindo i neec to eject my sd card or can ijust take it out?09:27
cLinin the tablet09:27
KotCzarnyclin: it will probably eject when you open battery cover09:27
KotCzarnybut i'm not sure09:28
cLini am using the one behind the stand09:28
cLinwhat do you do then?09:28
Naviyou pull it out09:28
Naviit doesn't eject :P09:28
cLini mean09:28
cLinlike how window has that "eject" command09:28
Naviit complains if the card's is in use09:29
Naviyou don't have to worry about ejecting it09:29
cLintime to test my video out09:29
cLinhow do i move apps into my selection folder09:32
Navicontrol panel, under panels09:33
cLinthank you09:34
cLinoh, has anyone had experiences with anti glare protectors? i don't know whether toget those for the under the sun or to get a normal screen protector09:34
Naviboxwave stuff is nice09:35
Naviboxwave cleartouch anti-glare09:35
Navihard to apply though09:35
cLini know the brands, im more curious about the experience with the types of protectors09:35
cLini heard anti glare tends to blur the screen09:35
Navijust a tad09:35
cLindue to how it's made09:35
cLini wish i could test one out09:36
NaviKotCzarny, I like how they used a sad face when the codec fails09:36
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Naviooh, webkit's done09:38
KotCzarny  * Fixed issue #1962 ('mp4(divx) playing VERY slowly with MPlayer 1.0rc1-maemo.24.n8x0')09:38
KotCzarnythat's .2509:38
* KotCzarny has .2409:39
cLinanyone use Nokia 770/800 video converter?09:39
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Navi.25 is in the testing extras, I believe09:39
cLinit has an option for i add them or does it find it themselves?09:39
KotCzarnywhich repo?09:39
NaviExtras Testing09:40
Naviif not, my bad.09:41
KotCzarnycan't find it09:41
Naviafter I copy over webkit, I'll get back to fiddling with mplayer09:42
Naviit's in there?09:44
Navireport back when you try it :)09:45
KotCzarnyhow do i upgrade with dpkg ?09:46
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KotCzarnylooks slower09:48
KotCzarnyfor a moment09:48
Navibut overall?09:48
KotCzarnysame experience09:48
KotCzarnysame benchmark09:48
KotCzarnyie. not much than 0.1fps difference09:49
KotCzarnyi wonder why gst isn't working09:50
leif__Navi, did you try webkit yet?09:51
Navistill copying09:51
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KotCzarny.25 supports video position09:52
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KotCzarny-lavdopts lowres=109:53
KotCzarnynearly usable09:54
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NaviKotCzarny, where do you live?09:55
KotCzarnynyc atm09:55
KotCzarnybut more like 'internet'09:56
NaviKind of late, ain't it :)09:56
NaviThere's this other guy in another channel whom I asked where he lived to badger him about staying up late09:56
Navihe said NYC as well.09:56
cLinis there some sort of battery monitor besides the built in one for the status bar?09:57
cLinsomething that gives informtion other thwn1 hr09:57
KotCzarnyclin: cat /sys/something09:57
KotCzarnygoogle for exact location09:57
Navinice :P09:57
KotCzarnykilling esd ->23fps10:00
KotCzarnybut feeding it to dsp would be so effective :/10:00
KotCzarnymaemo-launcher eats 3% cpu10:04
Naviwow, that was a bad idea.10:04
KotCzarnybut i won't kill it again10:04
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NaviI accidentally copied the webkit folder instead of my /usr/local/10:05
Naviran out of memory card space10:05
Navihey pupnik10:05
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leif__cLin, see
cLinwhats this?10:06
cLindoes it work for n800?10:06
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BugBlueif you have OS2008 .. propably10:07
leif__there is a program there that says it will tell you how many percent full your battery is10:07
* leif__ has not tried it10:07
NaviDogma, you're not Dogma!10:07
cLinis the bookmarks folder a file or something i can edit10:08
pupnik"Politics - like war - robs words of their meaning." - Lew Rockwell
KotCzarnywireless-tools, nice10:09
* Navi wonders if any morons have packaged anything to /usr/local10:10
KotCzarny4.0M    /usr/local10:10
leif__cLin, bookmarks are stored at /home/user/.bookmarks/MyBookmarks.xml10:10
pupnikNavi, I symlink /usr/local/share to mmc vfat10:11
KotCzarnywould be nice idea to mount mmc on /usr/local10:12
KotCzarnybut ext3 etc10:12
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*** Dogm is now known as D0gma10:12
pupnikKotCzarny: i like the idea too - but it needs consideration by gurus.  It would be good to have a category of programs on MMC that might not always be there.10:13
NaviI'm usually neat with my /usr/local crap10:13
pupnikSo if you remove the mmc containing some things on /usr/local, the icons temporarily disappear from menus10:13
pupnikBut there is a class of applications (i.e. games) that are space-intensive, and not necessarily programs users would want always-present10:14
KotCzarny /usr/local is for user alone10:14
KotCzarnypackages shouldn't use it10:14
pupnikwhy is it owned by root then?10:15
KotCzarnybecause it's on / ?10:15
pupnik"The Linux File System Standard (and therefore Debian GNU/Linux) requires that subdirectories under /usr/local/ be entirely under the user's discretion. Therefore, users can unpack `foreign' packages into this directory, and then manage their configuration, upgrade and removal individually."10:16
KotCzarnyit's like asking why /usr/src is owned by root10:16
Navi/usr/local/ is usually unmanaged user crap10:16
Naviif your system variables are set up right, and you're good about your /usr/local/, removing an mmc mounted as local would be pretty painless10:18
cLini installed the hildon-plankton theme in my installable packages but when i set the theme to plankton, it remains as the one i had before even though it says Plankton is the currentone10:19
cLinwhat gives?10:19
KotCzarnymaybe you had it already10:20
KotCzarnybut under different name10:20
cLinit was right when i installed os200810:20
cLini wiped it clean10:20
Naviwhere does scratchbox stick /usr?10:21
KotCzarnydamn, .25 with -ao null IS smooth10:22
Navifull framerate?10:22
cLinand is it better to put my sd card into the internal or external slot?10:22
KotCzarnyat 720x44810:22
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KotCzarnyand WITHOUT downscaling10:22
NavicLin, If you're going to be taking it out a lot, or only have one, external10:22
NaviKotCzarny, nice10:22
KotCzarnydamn esd :/10:23
cLini read something with the tablet using additional memory from sd card internally. is it talking about ram?10:23
KotCzarnyclin: swap10:23
Navifound it10:23
KotCzarnymaaaan, full fps10:23
KotCzarnyeven at fast scenes10:24
KotCzarnybut no sound :/10:24
Naviplay some music in the background and pretend it's a montage10:24
KotCzarnyplaying sound -> framedropping hard10:26
KotCzarnysound off, smooth10:26
Navithe N800 won't read my SD10:27
NaviI hate it when it does that10:27
KotCzarnyspank it10:27
KotCzarnythat video looks crispy on n80010:28
NaviAh, a restart always works :)10:29
cLinwhat are you two watching :)10:29
NaviNot porn10:29
* Navi waits for the slow arm core to finish extracting his tarball10:33
KotCzarnyyou extract you bars from tar using arm?10:35
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* Navi should really set up an nfs10:38
KotCzarnynah, sshfs10:38
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leif__cLin, can you switch between the four built-in themes?10:40
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cLinactualyl let me double check10:40
cLinhrm, strange.i cant10:40
leif__perhaps a reboot would fix it?10:41
leif__or if you've got a shell, killall -1 hildon-desktop10:41
cLinlet me try..10:42
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cLinit restarted, sitll doesn't work10:44
cLinwow, this is strange10:44
NaviI hate that the maemo sdk takes over my sound system10:44
Zichmm, Hildon will be a part of the GNOME Mobile & Embeded project, great !10:45
* KotCzarny shrugs10:45
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leif__cLin, that is very strange :/10:53
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NaviHow do I add /usr/local/lib to the lib path?10:56
NaviI forgot >_>10:56
KotCzarny /etc/
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KotCzarnyand ldconfig10:56
Navibtw, the demo webkit browser is running10:57
Navileif__, it runs nicely.10:58
leif__faster than microb?10:59
* Navi shrugs10:59
Navion a fresh startup, microb vs the demo browser, it's 22MB vs 17 MB, not a huge difference, 'specially if you include the fact that the demo browser lacks in features11:00
NaviWhat's a good javascript intensive site to go to?11:01
NaviI'll see how well it does there11:01
Naviooh, web benchmarking11:03
KotCzarnyworks best if you save testpage to /tmp11:03
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Navidamn, it's _really_ late11:04
KotCzarnyis it?11:04
KotCzarnydefine 'late'11:04
Naviyes :P11:04
Navilate as in it's almost morning for you11:04
KotCzarnydoes it matter?11:04
NaviThe ITs don't like those pages too much11:04
Navi72.577 for webkit11:05
kikkaHm, I try to flash it like it is in the howto. Suitable USB device not found, waiting11:05
kikkathen I press power + home, and it turns on11:05
kikkaBut it don't boot, it displays Nokia and the USB-emblem11:06
kikka... any ideas?11:07
Navi76.48 for gecko11:08
Naviminor difference11:08
Navikikka, it's not supposed to boot, it's supposed to flash11:08
Navionly a few seconds worth11:08
KotCzarnystill, better than nothing11:09
alpNavi: let me know if you find any bad cases, we haven't really started optimising for IT yet11:09
alpstill early days :-)11:09
kikkaNavi: Okay, but it do nothing...11:09
NaviHey, I didn't know alp was in here too11:09
kikkaI must do something wrong.11:09
kikkaHm, this is not the original-nokia-dke-cable... does it matters?11:09
KotCzarnyyou will burn in hell for that!!!!11!!1!11:10
kikka... Okay, it doesn't matters...11:11
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Navialp, well, it's promising if you can get comparable speeds using an unoptimized layout engine against one that is :D11:11
kikkaThan I'll try it not with power+home, but with the charger...11:11
alpNavi: i have a bunch of patches that make it fly, can't wait to start landing some of this11:11
alpthe biggest win is the new compositing backing store, which is a decent win on the desktop but for some reason _really_ helps on the device11:12
leif__alp, is the EAL integration dead now?11:12
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alpleif__: it went proprietary and i stopped working on it. i think it's better to build a tidy new interface around the engine (or port epiphany/midori)11:14
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alpthe problem with EAL is that it's another abstraction. as long as you sit behind an abstraction, you can't do really cool stuff11:15
NaviEw, why'd it go propretary?11:15
leif__I thought EAL sounded great when I first read about it, but I guess I can imagine how more layers of abstraction could be restrictive11:16
* leif__ is unsurprised to hear of more Nokia soft being less open than it initially appears11:17
alpi was excited about it then, but it's become clear that you can write a fairly full featured browser in a fraction of the code taken to abstract opera/mozilla/webkit into one API11:17
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Naviin terms of css, Demo-7346ms, MicroB-10000ms11:17
kikkaHm, but, it could be really important to use the original cable.11:17
* Navi shrugs11:17
KotCzarnykikka: why?11:18
alpso i will concentrate on making sure webkit stays the best engine, but it's really up to the maemo community to figure out what to do on the browser front11:18
Navialp, yeah, that's the case with the layout engines nowadays11:18
KotCzarnyintegrate it into desktop11:18
KotCzarnyas ie11:18
alpbut if someone comes up with a fantastic browser or apps, i'll definitely request a git/svn account and lend a hand :-)11:19
kikkaKotCzarny: Dunno. It doesn't work here. When I plug in the charger it's charge the n770... okay, well, the n770 should be fully charged, my fault....11:19
KotCzarnyanyone programmed dsp in n800?11:19
NaviMicroB's clearly overtaken Opera on the browser front11:19
NaviI can't wait for some webkit optimizations11:19
leif__alp, would the demo browser Navi is using not be worth distributing a deb of currently?11:20
NaviIt's not.11:20
alpit's .. pretty basic11:21
KotCzarnymore basic than pretty?11:21
Naviall it does is forward/back and type in the address11:21
KotCzarnysame with microb11:21
leif__yeah, that is what i was about to say :)11:21
leif__but really i know, microb does have a few features ;)11:22
NaviI'll gladly upload the tarball of my /usr/local as well as the demo browser.11:22
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NaviBut there's not much to see11:22
kira_samahey guys - are there any tools out there to benchmark the speed of my nokia's memory card?11:23
johnxhdparm or dd11:23
KotCzarnykira_sama: hdparm -t /dev/mtdblk011:23
Naviuntar a tarbomb!11:23
Navithose are awesome.11:23
kira_samacool - i'll give it ashot.11:23
NaviWhat I'm more interested in is fast mplayer playback :311:24
trulshow fast do you need it?11:24
* KotCzarny tries to learn how /dev/dsptask/mp3dec works11:25
Navifull framerate no downscaling!11:25
Navithat's how fast I want it.11:25
johnxNavi, for what resolution?11:25
* truls would assume no downscaling meant 800x48011:26
johnxYou know the situation with the LCD controller right?11:26
johnx18MB/s is all you get...11:26
NaviYes, I know.11:26
KotCzarnyjohnx: without sound 24fps is crispy11:26
Tama^2johnx, can we do 800x480 12fps with vsync?11:27
pupnikUntil you understand the custom programming that has gone into mplayer on the tablet, you can not expect to improve it11:28
Tama^2or 18MB/s is not enough for that11:28
cLinfor the n770 video converter is there a size limit? i tried putting a 700 meg video file and it won't open it11:29
Tama^2I am happy with lower fps as long as there is no tearing, it gives me headaches ;_;11:29
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KotCzarnyecho $[800*480*2*25/1024/1024]11:29
NaviI can't stand the tearing while browsing.11:29
KotCzarnylooks like 25fps @ full is possible11:29
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NaviKotCzarny, with -gst, no sound, but I get everything sexy smooth11:39
Navis/-gst/-ao gst/11:39
infobotNavi meant: KotCzarny, with -ao gst, no sound, but I get everything sexy smooth11:39
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KotCzarnyi guess gstreamer is b0rken on my os11:40
KotCzarnyand yours too11:40
KotCzarnyor not completely installed11:40
* Navi shrugs11:40
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Naviit's one of the benefits of watching dubbed animes, I guess ;)11:41
johnxKotCzarny, 25fps @ 800x480 you mean?11:41
KotCzarnyjohnx: full screen playback11:42
johnxI kind of doubt it11:42
johnxmaybe 20fps11:42
KotCzarnymplayer .25 plays fine11:43
johnxjust a standard .avi with mp4 video?11:43
KotCzarnywithout sound11:44
johnxI guess I'll try it11:44
johnxand that's with fast motion and without any framedrop set?11:44
Navimplayer -ao gst -ac dspmp3 = Wow, I didn't know video on the N800 could go that fast.11:44
KotCzarnynavi: your gstreamer isn't working11:45
KotCzarny(mine too)11:45
KotCzarnyso, no sound11:45
NaviYeah, well, it's still faster than -ao null11:45
johnxit used to work nicely in OS2007...11:45
* KotCzarny installs missing gstreamer packages11:45
KotCzarnyhow do you use it anyway?11:46
NaviKotCzarny, tell me if you ever get it to work11:46
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KotCzarnyi don't know if it's related..11:53
Navi" Resolution:   WONTFIX"11:53
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Navipretty funny.11:54
KotCzarnygst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=/tmp/1.mp3 ! dspmp3sink11:56
KotCzarnydecodes, plays11:56
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KotCzarnylet's see if mplayer would work now11:57
kikkaFlashing is weird.12:01
KotCzarnyjohnx: how to persuade mplayer to work nicely with gstreamer?12:02
johnxin OS2008? I don't know if it doesn't work out of the box12:02
KotCzarnyand in os2007?12:02
johnxit just worked12:03
KotCzarnycommand line?12:03
johnxmplayer foo.avi12:03
* johnx is gone...12:04
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KotCzarnyRequested audio codec family [mp3] (afm=mp3lib) not available.12:05
KotCzarnyEnable it at compilation.12:05
KotCzarnyah, unrelated.12:05
kikkaWHy don't this crap work for me?12:06
KotCzarnywow. i crashed n80012:08
KotCzarnywith gst-launch12:08
KotCzarnyvideo @ full, nosound;  another term: gst-launch somemp312:09
KotCzarnyno slowdown12:10
KotCzarnyso it's possible!12:10
pupnikmplayer in os2008 no longer uses dsp for mp3 playback12:10
KotCzarnypupnik but why?12:10
pupnikbecause running the dsp drops the cpu down to 333mhz, according to ssvb12:10
KotCzarnybut from what i see it plays ok12:10
KotCzarnyno slowdown at all12:11
pupnikthen perhaps the video playback wasn't cpu limited.12:11
KotCzarnytrying to use esd as audio output slows it HEAVILY12:11
pupnikcan you share a 15 second clip?12:11
KotCzarnyit's big..12:11
KotCzarnybut i can try12:11
pupnikok nm12:11
KotCzarnyis dd cut ok?12:12
pupniki don't know enough to diagnose12:12
pupniki'm just curious12:12
pupnikshould be fine12:12
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KoshiHmm, was under the impression that slow video could be explained by slow access to storage media?12:14
KotCzarnykoshi: no12:14
KotCzarnywell, partially true12:14
KotCzarnypupnik: test1: mplayer, esd as -ao (default)12:15
KotCzarnytest2: mplayer -ao null, in another window: gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=/tmp/1.mp3 ! dspmp3sink12:16
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KoshiWell, was thinking that perhaps a slow sd card was used internally? But i dont have a class 6 sdhc one to try12:16
KotCzarnykoshi: i have an impression that esd is the culprit..12:16
KotCzarnyand mp3dec (dsp sink) are a free cycles12:17
pupnikty KotCzarny12:17
KoshiTo be fair, i know little about different mpayer decoders/options :)12:18
KotCzarnykoshi: n800 has a dual core cpu12:18
KotCzarnyone core is dsp12:18
pH5the arm11 is scaled down to 330MHz as soon as a dsptask is active, does anybody know why there is no operating point with full frequencies for both cores?12:19
KotCzarnywhen doing software decoding -> esd it uses core1 (cpu)12:19
pupnikpH5: power12:19
KotCzarnywhen doing cat > dsp (core2) you free core112:19
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KoshiYes they (ti) did claim to do dvd playback with it if i read the documentation correctly. Thats why limited sd card bandwidth was on my mind.12:20
KotCzarnyhmm, but isn't it that 'full speed dsp, 330 cpu' or 'half speed dsp, 400 cpu' ?12:20
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KotCzarnyand for mp3 decoding half speed dsp is sufficient12:21
pH5pupnik: just consumption or some current limitation? I'm wondering if I'd kill my device at 400MHz cpu / 220 MHz dsp12:21
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space2Hi, I have problems installing inside scratchbox:12:22
space2after a clean installation (and adding the repositories) it downloads the i386 package list instead of armel12:22
space2(I'm using the SDK_ARM target)12:22
space2I fixed this by creating an apt.conf and forcing architecture to armel12:22
space2but now when installing dpkg has errors:12:23
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KotCzarnyRuns at an underclocked 330MHz on OS2007, due to the fact that the DSP speed will be halved if run at full speed12:23
space2package architecture (armel) does not match system (i386)12:23
space2what could be the problem?12:23
KotCzarnycat /proc/cpuinfo12:24
KotCzarnyProcessor       : ARMv6-compatible processor rev 2 (v6l)12:24
KotCzarnyBogoMIPS        : 160.6812:24
KotCzarnyah, cpufreq, sorry12:25
KotCzarnyI also remember Igor talking about an unsupported rate with both DSP at full speed and the ARM at (or perhaps) above full speed. Was that a post on itt or the mailing list/irc?12:26
pupnikyou're right KotCzarny in this example it's faster with dspmp3sink12:26
KotCzarnypupnik, then why, oh why, and who crippled mplayer and n800?12:27
pupnikperhaps there were a majority of examples in which it was faster to not use dsp12:27
infobotpupnik meant: perhaps there was a majority of examples in which it was faster to not use dsp12:27
KotCzarnythey fixed a bug in .2512:28
KotCzarnybut it would be nice to bring mp3dec dsp back to mplayer12:28
KotCzarnyit would rock :>12:28
pupnikmplayer -ao gst is broken?12:29
KotCzarnytry for yourself12:29
KotCzarnyat least on os200812:29
pupnikbizarre -ao gst is faster than -ao null12:30
KotCzarnybecause it can't open audio-out12:30
KotCzarnyand doesn't bother with audio stream entirely12:30
KotCzarnyi guess12:30
KotCzarnyNo, there's no explicit hw support for any audio codec, there are hw acceleration functions in the DSP that make decoding it easier (but then these functions are used by most/all audio codecs so it's nothing specific to mp3)12:30
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pupnikmust be!12:30
pupniki get full 24 fps, apparently with -ao gst12:30
pupnikand dropouts with -ao null12:31
KotCzarnybut read the log12:31
KotCzarny'decoder init failed, no audio'12:31
pupnikwell this looks great12:31
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pupniknow i have to transcode some high def12:31
pupnikesp something with widescreen12:32
KotCzarnybother maemo/mplayer people first12:32
pupniki'll just compile mplayer with dsp support :P12:32
KotCzarnyto bring gst back12:32
KotCzarnygreat :>12:32
KotCzarnyreport if it works12:32
KotCzarnyand how well12:32
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pupnikif it builds ok, i'll give it to you to test, i'm busy12:36
KotCzarnyi can build it myself i think12:36
pupnikok good12:36
KotCzarnyunless i go to sleep12:37
KotCzarnywhere to get .25 source?12:39
pupniksvn checkout
KotCzarnynice talk about cpu/dsp12:44
KotCzarnythat svn command sucks all branches? or what?12:45
KotCzarnyand this one12:46
pupnikoh maybe it should just grab 'trunk'12:46
pupnikyou can see what a huge, monumental project it is...12:47
KotCzarnygbs are cheap nowadays12:47
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space2 ,12:51
kikkaShame on me.12:52
kikkaI updated it via windows xp12:52
KotCzarnyyou have got what you deserved then12:53
KotCzarnyit would be nice to have 2 versions of mplayer12:53
KotCzarnyone for maximum power12:54
KotCzarnyother for maximum battery12:54
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pupnikwhat did you use to transcode that intro KotCzarny12:56
KotCzarnyi cut it with dd12:57
KotCzarnyfrom the movie12:57
pupnikstraight from dvd?12:57
KotCzarnylet me check it with mplayer12:57
KotCzarnyClip info:12:58
KotCzarny Software: VirtualDubMod (build 2439/release)12:58
pupnikI just have no 800-wide sources12:58
KotCzarnyneed bigger chunk?12:58
KotCzarnydownload some from apple.com12:59
pupnikno no - i do have something HD12:59
pupnikfor the tablets i usually drop the audio down to 64kbit though13:00
pupnikfull res does look sweet13:00
KotCzarnycrispy as hell13:00
pupnikah it's 720 so it's scaling up13:00
KotCzarnyturn off zooming13:00
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KotCzarnybut still good testcase13:01
pupnikwhat's the zoom cmd13:01
KotCzarnyit's in /etc/mplayer/mplayer.conf13:01
KotCzarnyor -nozoom13:01
pupnikok nozoom works13:03
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pupnikstrange it looks wider than 720 tho.. or are those really 40 pixels of black on the sides13:03
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KotCzarnyisn't arm big endian?13:03
KotCzarnyinteresting that mplayer in sb guessed as little endian..13:05
KotCzarnyoh, well13:05
KotCzarnymaybe it will work :)13:05
pH5pupnik, KotCzarny: do you have a link to fanoush's 400/133 dsptask patch?13:05
pH5I can only find the precompiled kernels.13:05
KotCzarnyhmm, isn't it autoconfiguring?13:05
GeneralAntillesWe're ARMEL.13:05
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KotCzarnyph5: also, isn't os2008 already patched for 400mhz cpu?13:08
sp3000Resistance is ...e er13:08
jaska_you will be barrel shifted?13:08
sp3000something like that no doubt13:09
GeneralAntillesKotCzarny, fanoush's kernel will prefer 400/133 over 320/220, I believe.13:09
pH5KotCzarny: I mean for the dsptask operating point. OP_0 is running at 400/133, but a running dsptask forces OP_1 on os2008, which is 330/220.13:10
GeneralAntillesSo the DSP wont immediately force-- ^that13:10
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pH5I'd like to have a kernel where OP_1 can be switched between 400/133 and 330/220 from userspace.13:10
pH5(or the dsptask policy can be switched between OP_0 and OP_1)13:10
KotCzarnystill, it would be nice to have mplayer decoding streams with dsp13:11
pH5KotCzarny: if that works at 400/133, it might be even worth it. ssvb tells us that a 330/220 it is not.13:12
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KotCzarnyfrom what i have seen it's beneficial13:12
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KotCzarnypupnik can confirm13:12
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pupnikin this one case it appears to make all the difference to use dsp13:13
pH5do you have dspmp3 working with mplayer already?13:13
KotCzarnybut not integrated13:13
pH5care to post your patch?13:13
KotCzarnyno patch13:13
KotCzarnyjust a testcase13:14
pH5now I'm curious. how did you get it to work?13:14
KotCzarnyie. mplayer -ao null && gstreamer mp313:14
KotCzarnyvs. mplayer -ao esd13:14
pH5hm, but at -ao null mplayer doesn't synchronise video frame rate with the audio.13:14
pH5sure you're running the video at full fps?13:14
KotCzarnyyes, but it was only for testing13:15
KotCzarnyif it will start framedropping13:15
KotCzarnybut apparently it worked ok13:15
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KotCzarnybut doing: mplayer -ao null && mplayer -vo null -ao esd framedropped13:16
KotCzarnypupnik says mplayer ran happily with gstreamer mp3dec in os200713:17
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mojhojhojho@find flv13:18
pupnikpeople like that make me wish i had a botnet13:19
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pH5KotCzarny: great, that sounds promising.13:21
KotCzarnyyes i guess13:21
KotCzarnyif it was working in the past13:21
pH5although it might just be the demux running twice or something like that.13:22
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KotCzarnynice, n800 has aacdec in dsp too13:23
KotCzarnyIn addition, my hack which used dspmp3sink13:28
KotCzarnyfrom MPlayer, now has problems with audio/video synchronization in OS2008.13:28
KotCzarnySo looks like it is a good time to drop it. Using DSP for MP3 audio was a13:28
KotCzarnyuseful trick on Nokia 770 and OS2006, but right now everything is reversed13:28
KotCzarnyfor N800/N810 and OS2008.13:28
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pupniktrying to make an 800x3?? film here13:31
KotCzarnythat vid was 720x45013:32
KotCzarnyi think it's more thatn 800x3??13:32
KotCzarny{standard input}:107: Error: selected processor does not support `smulbb fp,lr,r9'13:32
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KotCzarnythat's for compiling mplayer.13:33
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pH5KotCzarny: make deb-n8x013:42
pupnikMost things not playing smoothly at high res KotCzarny - requires some tweaking13:42
pH5you need to tell debian/rules the device so it can decide whether to use armv5 or v6 optimization13:42
space2bn ul;j'j,'13:42
KotCzarnypupnik: but still it's a lot better than esd13:42
pupnikhaven't tested with sound yet13:43
pH5yuck, my lcd backlight just died13:43
KotCzarnyall by itself?13:43
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pH5laptop, not n810. let's try a reboot.13:45
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KotCzarnycompiling fun..13:55
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KotCzarnyn810 cost ~1000$?14:02
pupnik_trying these atm14:02
pupnik_-oac mp3lame -af volnorm -af channels=1 -oac mp3lame -lameopts lowpassfreq=10500:mode=3:vbr=0:br=64 -vf-add crop=680:240  -vf-add scale=800:266 -ovc xvid -xvidencopts bitrate=600:me_quality=6:vhq=4:lumi_mask:gmc -ofps 25 -force-avi-aspect14:02
pupnik_oops at dupe14:02
KotCzarnythat's mencoder?14:02
pupnik_oh and the aspect is 3.0 - bad paste14:03
pupnik_but i'm getting lots of these errors14:03
pupnik_2 bytes of audio data lost due to buffer overflow, len = 20482 42 0 42%14:03
pupnik_no idea what to do about it14:05
pupnik_btw for animation you can try14:05
pupnik_ -xvidencopts bitrate=400:vhq=4:lumi_mask:cartoon14:05
pupnik_i also like to experiment with dark mask to throw away data in dark regions14:05
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pupnik_for e.g. i have a couple of stand up comic routines where i completely threw away all the dark background data14:07
pupnik_got amazing compression :)14:08
KotCzarnydeleting is unbeatable at compression ratios..14:08
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lcuk_2whats the most logical time on this device to switch from directly allocating and reading a file into memory and using memory mapped files?  ie bytesize.   or is it better to memmap all files?14:09
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pupnik_KotCzarny: i'm starting to suspect you might be right about this stuff.  Mp3 playback is seriously compromising decoding speed14:59
KotCzarnybad news are coming from mplayer source15:00
KotCzarnysomething is broken when initializing gst15:00
KotCzarny#ifdef HAVE_MAEMO15:00
KotCzarny    /* Only OS2006 and OS2007 are supported */15:00
pupnik_btw what codec is a step down for cpu load15:01
pupnik_right now i'm trying [ffodivx] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg MPEG-4)15:01
KotCzarnyvideo isn't a problem i guess15:02
pupnik_since there are so many pixels we might get more usable results with a less expensive codec15:02
KotCzarnyif you want speedup you can use downscaling..15:02
pupnik_yes it is, the cpu is pegged playing back 600kb/s ffodivx15:02
pupnik_of course i could go down to 400x133 pixels15:04
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KotCzarny-lavdopts lowres=1:fast15:05
KotCzarnyadd that option then15:05
pupnik_good lord15:08
pupnik_it did cut mplayer down from 91 to 70%15:08
KotCzarnyand resolution too15:09
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GeneralAntillesCan somebody who actually uses Pidgin comment on whether it has a desktop applet?15:09
KotCzarnypidgin sucks15:10
kikkaWeird: my app manager prints "operation failed" when I update the app-list.15:10
GeneralAntillesNo kidding.15:10
KotCzarnykikka: open terminal and check apt-something15:10
GeneralAntillesI'm just wondering if it has an applet.15:10
kikkaKotCzarny: Okay15:10
GeneralAntillesLast time I used it way before rtcomm was even on the radar it didn't.15:10
KotCzarnydon't remember what to put instead of something15:11
KotCzarnysee logs in app-manager for that15:11
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kikkaKotCzarny: Hm, what is the standard root pw?15:12
KotCzarnydon't know15:12
KotCzarnyprobably none15:12
jaska_hrrm, my 810 seems to like to crash and reboot15:12
KotCzarnywhen i installed ssh-server it asked me what to set it to15:13
KotCzarnyjaska: reflash15:13
jaska_kot, well.. i havent installed anything weird yet15:13
jaska_was just browsing and the screen goes weird, then reboots15:14
kikkaKotCzarny: apt-cache show vim works15:14
GeneralAntillesjaska_, have you installed anything recently or screwed around with something you shouldn't have?15:14
KotCzarnymaybe mmc corruption?15:14
KotCzarnyit's called mmc in maemo15:14
kikkaHow can I fix that?15:15
GeneralAntillesIt's an SD card.15:15
jaska_nothing special, just a local version of osso-xterm without the stupid scrollbar, but its under a different name... even packaged it15:15
GeneralAntillesWell, 770 is mmc.15:15
KotCzarnygeneral: but mounts at /media/mmc*15:15
KotCzarnyand scripts have mmc all over inside15:15
GeneralAntillesIt's a throwback to the 770.15:15
GeneralAntillesIt's still an SD card.15:15
GeneralAntillesMount points really don't have anything to do with the card itself.15:15
KotCzarnystill, my facts hold true15:15
jaska_mine does have the oversized partition on the internal 2GB card tho15:16
kikkaWhat is the mmc corruption?15:16
GeneralAntilleskikka, apt downloads packages to the rs-mmc card15:16
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GeneralAntillesso if the card is corrupted (and mounted ro), then it'll fail ungracefully.15:16
GeneralAntillesjaska_, format it asap.15:16
jaska_was oversized out of the box heh15:16
GeneralAntillesIt was a bug they caught in preproduction15:17
GeneralAntilles. . . and failed to fix in shipping units. <_<15:17
jaska_need to backup the contents first..15:17
pupnik_KotCzarny: is there another audio codec for which mplayer will use the dsp15:19
KotCzarnyi don't know15:19
KotCzarnyprobably not15:19
kikkaGeneralAntilles: Yeah, ...15:19
pupnik_hmm how about we just try running the os2007 binary15:19
KotCzarnyunless someone rewrites libmad for dsp15:19
KotCzarnypupnik, try it15:19
KotCzarnyand let me know if it runs15:20
KotCzarnybut it won't15:20
KotCzarnybecause of that check i have pasted earlier15:20
KotCzarnyit checks for os2007 or os200615:20
KotCzarnyi have disabled the check15:21
jaska_hmm, no fdisk in here..15:21
KotCzarnyand now looking why it coredumps15:21
KotCzarnyjaska: copy from sb15:21
KotCzarnyor wait, not15:21
KotCzarnyit crashed with illegal instruction15:21
KotCzarnyconnect usb cable15:22
KotCzarnyand run fdisk on pc15:22
GeneralAntillesefs2progs should give you fdisk.15:23
KotCzarnynot true15:23
KotCzarnyfsidk is in unix-utils15:23
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kikkaIt's not the mmc, I boot without it and it crashs again...15:26
KotCzarnythen your / can be corrupted too15:26
kikka... cool15:27
vinilios_anyone using sb2 ? is there any way to execute af-sb... with sb2 ?15:27
pupnik_i'm still overwhelmed by mencoder options15:28
* KotCzarny recompiles mplayer15:28
jaska_if resizing the mmc partition doesnt help guess ill reflash and reinstall my stuff15:28
KotCzarnywith bigendiannes enabled15:28
jaska_havent touched the kernel yet etc tho :)15:28
kikkaOkay, I reflash it...15:28
KotCzarny(By consuming all memory root process can make the device so slow15:29
KotCzarnythat HW watchdog reboots it.)15:29
jaska_biggest pig on mine is the browser15:30
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KotCzarnykikka, you can try disabling watchdog15:30
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jaska_ehh, now it crashed while i was restoring the backup to the resized and reformatted mmc15:33
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pupnik_wb t_s_o15:37
jaska_it probably had the mmc still mounted or something15:38
jaska_waah, crashed and rebooted again15:39
pupnik_wow 'less' is taking 45% cpu15:41
KotCzarnyless is more15:41
pupnik_oh it's part of the mencoder process15:41
pupnik_still compiling KotCzarny15:42
pupnik_do you sometimes see a green line at the bottom of a video ?15:42
KotCzarnyi don't know15:42
jaska_cat /proc/bootreason15:43
jaska_hmmh, wd_to, watchdog timeout i guess15:43
pupnik_it's going to take me like 30 tries to get one encode right15:48
trulspupnik_: what's your goal, anything more than generic encoding?15:49
pupnik_see what my best results with 800 wide playback can be15:50
trulssorry, i should probably have read the backlog15:50
pupnik_but right now all tests yield 2 bytes of audio data lost due to buffer overflow, len = 26.2% 152 0 34%  errors15:50
pupnik_maybe i'll try lavc instead of mp3lame15:50
pupnik_yep it was mp3lame's fault15:52
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pupnik_dude KotCzarny this is a serious issue you found16:00
KotCzarnyis it?16:00
pupnik_it's hitting performance hugely on everything - every codec and res i try16:00
KotCzarnyesd sucks.16:00
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pupnik_it may also be farking with the L1 cache16:01
GeneralAntilles640x480 plays very smoothly here with audio off. :\16:02
KotCzarnygeneral, no shit?16:02
GeneralAntillesThat's messed up.16:02
pupnik_800x385 widescreen very nice too16:02
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KotCzarnyesd is messed up16:02
GeneralAntillesThat's REALLY messed up.16:02
KotCzarnydsp can fetch data with dma16:03
KotCzarnyleaving cpu for other things16:03
GeneralAntillesI've got a 2nd N800, somebody want to write a ad-hoc/BT playback sync application?16:03
GeneralAntillesOne for audio, one for video. :D16:03
* KotCzarny is trying to get mplayer working with gst16:03
GeneralAntillesSeriously, this is ridunkculous.16:04
GeneralAntillesWhat kind of mp3 decoding can the DSP handle at 133MHz?16:04
KotCzarnyssvb: yes, i saw that16:04
KotCzarnyconsider two power schemes16:05
KotCzarny1/ power hungry playback16:05
KotCzarny2/ power saving mode16:05
KotCzarnysometimes you just want to watch the video16:05
KotCzarnyssvb, but the problem is16:06
KotCzarnythat vid@cpu+aud@dsp runs SMOOTH16:06
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KotCzarnyvid+aud@cpu NOT16:06
KotCzarnyeven considering 330/220 in 1/ and 400/133 in 2/16:07
ssvbKotCzarny: try '-ao sdl', esd has performance problems16:07
KotCzarnysdl uses esd16:07
KotCzarnyfor playback16:07
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ssvbKotCzarny: '-vo sdl' is slower than '-vo esd' in mplayer16:08
KotCzarnyssvb: i don't touch -vo16:08
KotCzarnyonly -ao16:08
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ssvbKotCzarny: oops, quite the opposite in fact16:08
KotCzarnybut still, sdl uses esd for playback16:09
ssvbKotCzarny: here is a fixed version: '-ao sdl' is faster than '-ao esd' in mplayer :)16:09
KotCzarnysdl uses esd for playback.16:09
NaviStill awake?16:09
KotCzarnyand if you don't believe me kill esd daemon and rename /usr/bin/esd16:09
ssvbKotCzarny: it does not matter, mplayer esd driver is what is at fault, how sdl is implemented is irrelevant16:10
KotCzarnyssvb: -ao sdl FRAMEDROPS16:10
pupnik_ssvb is anyone looking into the sync problem with dspmp3 playback?16:11
KotCzarny-ao gst doesn't.16:11
ssvbKotCzarny: try running mplayer with -benchmark option and post the results16:11
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KotCzarnyssvb, bah.16:11
KotCzarnyask pupnik16:11
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pupnik_KotCzarny: ssvb knows 10x more about this stuff than you and me put together16:12
KotCzarnyor try for yourself16:12
KotCzarnypupnik, but you saw my testcase16:12
pupnik_yes, performance dropped severely16:12
ssvbpupnik_: I think implementing audio driver over dsppcm task (bypassing gstreamer) is the right option16:13
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KotCzarnyssvb: i agree16:13
Navistill talking about this, eh?16:13
KotCzarnybut getting gst is probably easier to get working16:13
ssvbpupnik_: I'll try benchmarking again in a few minutes16:14
KotCzarnybecause it's there only b0rken in os200816:14
NaviHave you tried it with os2007?16:14
pupnik_ssvb, high res playback on n810 is amazing :)16:14
ssvbKotCzarny: good luck, patch is very much welcome16:14
KotCzarnyssvb: yeah, as soon as my scratchbox compiles mplayer16:15
KotCzarnyright now it thinks arm is little endian16:15
KotCzarnyand when told otherwise it barfs at some irrelevant defines16:15
ssvbKotCzarny: here are some more details:
ssvbKotCzarny: but ARM *is* little endian indeed16:16
ssvbKotCzarny: more precizely, ARM cpu supports both big and little endian mode, which is selected by operating system16:17
KotCzarnyhow can i check?16:17
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ssvbKotCzarny: maemo and most other ARM systems use little endian16:17
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pupnik_mplayer only using 71-74% cpu playing 800x385 mpeg-4 @600b/s video16:18
KotCzarnyssvb, still, the only way to have full size smooth playback is to send audio decoding to dsp16:18
pupnik_xomap 10-17%16:19
ssvbKotCzarny: put some int value into memory (0x12345678), convert the pointer to (char *) and read one byte, depending on endianness you will either read 0x12 or 0x7816:19
KotCzarnyor just write video decoder using dsp core16:19
michele_wait. mplayer can do full res playback now?16:19
KotCzarnymichele: it could all the time16:19
michele_not on my tablet16:19
ssvbpupnik_: try -benchmark option, it will show the exact number of frames dropped, so the performance can be measured more or less scientifically16:21
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KotCzarnyNokia-N800-51-3:/media/mmc2/Video# mplayer -benchmark -frames 200 -ao null 1.avi16:22
KotCzarnyBENCHMARK%: VC: 69.4968% VO: 11.3117% A: 11.7174% Sys:  7.4740% = 100.0000%16:23
KotCzarnyBENCHMARKn: disp: 216 (19.91 fps)  drop: 34 (13%)  total: 250 (23.05 fps)16:23
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KotCzarnyNokia-N800-51-3:/media/mmc2/Video# mplayer -benchmark -frames 200 1.avi16:23
KotCzarnyBENCHMARKs: VC:   7.381s VO:   1.576s A:   0.000s Sys:   0.426s =    9.383s16:23
KotCzarnyBENCHMARK%: VC: 78.6659% VO: 16.7921% A:  0.0000% Sys:  4.5420% = 100.0000%16:23
KotCzarny(no frame drops)16:23
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KotCzarnyso decoding mp3 in cpu makes it bad16:23
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pupnik_in your second run you did not use -ao gst?16:24
ssvbKotCzarny: sure it does, but decoding in DSP makes it even worse (at least that was the result of my last test)16:24
KotCzarnyin second it disabled audio decoding entirely16:24
KotCzarnyssvb: not true16:24
KotCzarnyi will show you results16:24
KotCzarnywhen i find gstreamer line16:24
ssvbKotCzarny: I can be wrong of course16:24
pupnik_ssvb - strange: i can play a mp3 file seperately with gst-launch and not get frame drops16:26
ssvbKotCzarby: btw, in your "no audio test" you will never get frame drops, you just get slow motion16:26
pupnik_with -ao oss (no sound) i get no framedrops16:26
pupnik_BENCHMARKs: VC: 168.679s VO:  67.750s A:   0.000s Sys:  16.753s =  253.182s16:26
pupnik_BENCHMARK%: VC: 66.6234% VO: 26.7595% A:  0.0000% Sys:  6.6171% = 100.0000%16:26
pupnik_VO: [xv] 600x385 => 800x385 Planar YV12  [fs] [zoom]16:26
pupnik_i mean -ao gst16:26
KotCzarnyssvb: not true, decoding times are the same16:27
KotCzarnygst-launch filesrc location=/tmp/1.mp3 ! mp3dec16:27
KotCzarnywhat's wrong with this syntax?16:27
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KotCzarnyach. sink16:28
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ssvbKotCzarny: that's hardly possible, with -benchmark and no audio, video plays as fast as it can (for low resolution video you will get much higher framerate than realtime, for too heavy videos you will get lower framerate than realtime)16:28
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ssvbKotCzarny: but no framedrops of course in either case16:29
KotCzarnyNokia-N800-51-3:/media/mmc2/Video# mplayer -benchmark -frames 200 1.avi16:29
KotCzarny+ gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=/tmp/1.mp3 ! dspmp3sink16:29
dtahtbotKotCzarny: Error: "gst-launch-0.10" is not a valid command.16:29
KotCzarnyBENCHMARKs: VC:   9.009s VO:   2.167s A:   0.000s Sys:   0.597s =   11.774s16:29
KotCzarnyBENCHMARK%: VC: 76.5199% VO: 18.4085% A:  0.0000% Sys:  5.0716% = 100.0000%16:29
pupnik_KotCzarny: what versino do you have?16:30
pupnik_mplayer -v16:30
pupnik_MPlayer 1.0rc1-maemo.24.n8x016:30
pupnik_ah ok16:30
ssvbKotCzarny: you get 11.774s total time for 200 frames of 24fps video, it should decode in 8.33 seconds to play in realtime16:30
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ssvbKotCzarny: that means, cpu is too slow for this video16:31
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ssvbKotCzarny: what you see is just slow motion playback16:31
pupnik_hard to tell with the computer animated logo :)16:32
KotCzarnylet's see without -framedrop16:32
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KotCzarnyNokia-N800-51-3:/media/mmc2/Video# mplayer -noframedrop -benchmark -frames 200 -ao sdl 1.avi16:34
KotCzarnyBENCHMARKs: VC:   7.621s VO:   1.227s A:   1.440s Sys:   0.831s =   11.119s16:34
KotCzarnyBENCHMARK%: VC: 68.5361% VO: 11.0353% A: 12.9517% Sys:  7.4770% = 100.0000%16:34
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KotCzarnybut there's a possibility that kernel locked at 400/133 would benefit from decoding in dsp16:34
pH5pupnik_, KotCzarny: what do you think about something like this: to select the DSP OP from userspace via /sys/power/op_dsp?16:35
ssvbKotCzarny: yes, there is such possibility (as was discussed in the mailing list)16:35
pupnik_we can't even select -ao gst optionally right now :(16:36
ssvbKotCzarny: your benchmark with '-ao sdl' just confirmed that ARM core at 400MHz can decode video+audio faster than ARM core at 330MHz can decode video only16:36
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KotCzarnyssvb, but not much16:37
KotCzarnyand aac would take more cpu juice than mp316:37
KotCzarnyand dsp could decode aac too16:37
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ssvbKotCzarny: but at least it also avoids weird gstreamer bugs with seeking ;-)16:38
NaviGeneralAntilles, lol, I knew that was coming.16:38
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KotCzarnyssvb: bugs, squash'em all16:39
GeneralAntillesI need to get a ziptie.16:39
pupnik_nah i'm going to ignore hi-res until omap343016:39
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KotCzarnyanyway, locking @400/133 would be nice16:39
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KotCzarnyright now i can't test that case16:39
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Navifuck all of that, everyone should use -ao alsa :P16:41
KotCzarnythat would be nice16:41
KotCzarnybut it wouldn't use dsp for decoding16:41
KotCzarnyand also would switch cpu to 330/22016:41
NaviNo, alsa as it is >_>16:42
GeneralAntillesWhat's the most the DSP can handle at 133?16:42
Naviwith the stuttering sound and 1fps16:42
ssvbKotCzarny: the problem is that nobody would run at 400@133 unless Nokia releases firmware with support for this mode16:42
KotCzarnygeneral, 486@66 can do mp316:42
GeneralAntillesNot a valid comparison.16:42
GeneralAntillesssvb, I believe fanoush has a kernel that'll do that.16:43
GeneralAntillesNot ideal for most users, but I wouldn't mind it. :D16:43
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ssvbKotCzarny: yes, extra 70MHz of ARM core are also more than enough for mp316:43
KotCzarnyssvb, only if you have spare cpu after video decoding16:43
s33dssidenote, 2k08 fixed the CPU/DSP at what?16:44
KotCzarny400/133, but not fixed16:44
GeneralAntillesIt jumps around between 165 and 40016:44
KotCzarnyif you use dsp it will switch to 330/220 i believe16:44
KotCzarnygeneral: that's cpufreq16:44
s33dsk ok, im just curious, that if the OS may control the fsb and stuff like that, when will we have a virtual dual cpu from maemo? ;)16:45
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s33dshence GeneralAnt's beatiful solution hehe16:45
GeneralAntillesYes, KotCzarny, I know.16:45
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ssvbGeneralAntilles: From the  practical point of view, nobody would care to use it. How many people around use 770 kernel with fixed YUV420 mode (which provides 2-3% of speedup for mplayer)?16:46
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pupnik_actually i'm getting jerky playback at 400x200 now16:46
GeneralAntillesssvb this seems like it could be a lot more than a 2-3% speedup.16:47
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lcuk_2pupnik with all of this, i have noticed if you run an app one time it can get dire frame rates with lots of judder, but then run thesame app and options seconds later its smoother.  make sure you run each test at least a couple of times16:47
GeneralAntillesIf I'm getting perfect playback of mpeg4 at 640x480 (24fps) without audio16:47
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KotCzarnymovies without audio are not fun16:48
pupnik_check this out16:48
ssvbGeneralAntilles: s/perfect/slow motion16:48
pupnik_ mplayer test.avi -frames 200 -benchmark16:48
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pupnik_AO: [esd] 44100Hz 2ch s16le (2 bytes per sample16:48
pupnik_VDec: vo config request - 400 x 200 (preferred colorspace: Planar YV12)16:48
pupnik_VO: [xv] 400x200 => 400x200 Planar YV12  [fs] [zoom]16:49
pupnik_BENCHMARKs: VC:   2.733s VO:   0.848s A:   1.890s Sys:   3.042s =    8.514s16:49
pupnik_BENCHMARK%: VC: 32.0972% VO:  9.9628% A: 22.2037% Sys: 35.7362% = 100.0000%16:49
pupnik_BENCHMARKn: disp: 201 (23.61 fps)  drop: 0 (0%)  total: 201 (23.61 fps)16:49
pupnik_now i swear i saw jerky playback 3 times16:49
pupnik_yet it says drop = 0?16:49
lcuk_2i believe you 100% my book thingie does the same16:49
lcuk_2its like the entire system freezes but nothign is lost16:50
KotCzarny-framedrop-hard ?16:50
pupnik_with -ao gst it absolutely flies (no audio)16:50
KotCzarnywith -ao gst it ignores audio track16:50
KotCzarnyit doesn't even decode mp316:50
pupnik_BENCHMARKs: VC:   2.608s VO:   0.316s A:   0.000s Sys:   0.585s =    3.510s16:51
pupnik_BENCHMARK%: VC: 74.3187% VO:  9.0052% A:  0.0000% Sys: 16.6761% = 100.0000%16:51
pupnik_from 8.5 seconds to 3.5 seconds without the libmad / esd playback16:51
KotCzarnybug 1273 sucks.16:52
pupnik_so my 770 can play back this file just fine, but my 810 can't16:52
pupnik_maybe libmad has problems with some mp3 encoders or options16:53
KotCzarnyanyone has n8x0 with os2k7 ?16:53
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NaviKotCzarny, I was actually planning to flash down16:54
Navito try it out16:54
KotCzarnyif you do, do some benchmarks16:54
KotCzarnygst would work there16:54
ssvbpupnik_: the difference is proper realtime playback in one case (8.5 seconds) and faster than realtime playback in the second case (3.5 seconds)16:55
pupnik_due to the mp3 playback?16:55
pupnik_i unnerstan :)16:55
pupnik_it was amazing to see how well video ran at high res with no audio playing though16:57
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pupnik_conversely enabling mp3 playback sent it into 7 fps chunky mode16:58
KotCzarnymp3s are very complicated thingies..16:59
Navisez j0016:59
KotCzarnyif they bring playback down 50%17:00
KotCzarnyat least17:00
* Navi has one of those you-only-slept-four-hours headaches17:00
KotCzarnysleep? what is that?17:00
NaviI'd rather be tired than have a headache17:01
NaviI wish I didn't go to sleep17:01
KotCzarnytake a shower17:02
ssvbKotCzarny: the problem is that you can't drop video frames any time you wish, they depend on each other when decoding (well, actually you can do it by using '-hardframedrop' option, but beware of horrible artifacts)17:02
KotCzarnyssvb: i know, but still, from 24fps to 15 when enabling audio?17:03
ssvbKotCzarny: that's exactly the reason: you still have all the frames decoded and only save some small fraction of time by not showing some of them17:04
ssvbKotCzarny: frames can be dropped more freely on videos with B-frames (these are XVID files encoded with default settings)17:04
aquatixhm, what videoplayer do you guys recommend?17:05
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ssvbKotCzarny: so you can get a VGA resolution XVID file played more or less acceptable (but dropping 30-40% of frames)17:06
KotCzarnywithout audio you can get svga17:06
s33dsaquatix mplayer ftw... dont know if vlc has been ported yet17:06
ssvbKotCzarny: if the same file is encoded with B-frames disabled, it becomes completely unwatchable17:07
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ssvbKotCzarny: so video encoding options do matter a lot, sometimes to a higher extent than resolution/bitrate17:08
s33dsuhm - ./test: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory..17:08
s33dsdo i need to fix my
s33dsscratchbox runs it perfectly...17:09
ssvbs33ds: btw, vlc will not be faster than mplayer, its use is only justified if you prefer its GUI17:09
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KotCzarny-vo fb ?17:10
aquatix\o/ futurama @ n81017:10
s33dsof ssvb :) i guess its all in the codecs - on a n800, still os2007 i get a lil lossy sound from divx still17:10
aquatixyay @ slideshows17:10
s33dsbut near perfect framerate on a 480 x 32017:11
KotCzarnyaquatix: downscale it17:11
s33dskotczarny which did u do benchmark on?17:11
Navis33ds, mplayer17:12
vinilios_anyone using sb2 ? is there any way to execute af-sb... with sb2 ?17:12
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ssvbaquatix: you can also try '-lavdopts lowres=1:gray' just for the sake of experiment17:12
s33dsmeant the resolution of the avi :)17:13
KotCzarnyVIDEO:  [XVID]  720x448  12bpp  23.976 fps  571.9 kbps (69.8 kbyte/s)17:13
ssvbaquatix: lowres=1 only if you use build .25 of mplayer17:14
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KotCzarnykernel-source-rx-34_2.6.21.0-osso71.diff.gz                     20.02.200817:21
KotCzarnyuname -a17:21
KotCzarnyLinux Nokia-N800-51-3 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Fri Dec 7 11:17:13 EET 2007 armv6l unknown17:21
KotCzarnyi wonder..17:21
KotCzarnyalmost 4 months17:23
KotCzarnylots of time to fix bugs17:23
Navionly eight more months to go17:23
infobotNavi meant: only six more months to go17:23
s33dsBENCHMARKs: VC:   7.537s VO:   1.663s A:   0.000s Sys:   1.132s =   10.332s17:23
s33dsBENCHMARK%: VC: 72.9457% VO: 16.0936% A:  0.0000% Sys: 10.9607% = 100.0000%17:23
s33dsjust to give you something to compare with =)17:23
KotCzarnys33ds: but you will have to use same file17:24
s33dsproximately the same - but little sw scaled..  XVID 576x320 with AC317:25
KotCzarnynot even close17:25
s33dsgive me a link :)17:25
* Navi wonders if that's actually fast action porn17:26
Naviwould explain the framedropping17:27
KotCzarnymore like brainfsck17:27
Navi for real linkage17:27
Navi"The requested URL /tmp/1.avi was not found on this server."17:27
KotCzarnytry without tmp17:27
s33dsyea , but server is really busy right now :p17:29
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KotCzarnyit's only 128kbit up17:29
t_s_ohmm, nokia going ubuntu mobile, now thats a claim...17:29
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Naviubuntu mobile is a preconfigured debian with a custom hildon interface :D17:30
KotCzarnyas long it's flashable and oss, who cares..17:30
s33dsconsider debian as the forefather, and its not that scary :)17:30
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NaviKotCzarny, two more minutes17:31
aquatixnice, futurama actually plays fairly well17:32
pupnik_hey KotCzarny ssvb wrote "Now esd is used for non-mp3 audio in OS2007/OS2008"17:32
pupnik_that means that dsp is used for mp3 audio in OS2007/200817:32
* s33ds pings KotCzarny, unstall connection! :D17:32
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KotCzarnys33ds, reget, verizon sometimes does that17:32
Navis33ds, it's not that long a download17:32
aquatixerm, now how do i close the movie? :D17:32
Naviit's only 1.5MB, and I was downloading off of him17:32
* aquatix feels stupid17:33
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KotCzarnypupnik: watch mplayer logs17:33
KotCzarnyit clearly says that it uses esd17:33
KotCzarnygst only works in 2007 and 200617:33
pupnikok.. so compile it with gst17:34
KotCzarnyit is compiled with gst17:34
t_s_ohmm, got to love the back and forth about how "open" the iphone will be for developers ones the SDK is released...17:34
s33dsgst audio makes:BENCHMARKs: VC:  13.864s VO:   3.784s A:   0.087s Sys:   3.418s =   21.153s17:34
s33dsBENCHMARK%: VC: 65.5419% VO: 17.8890% A:  0.4116% Sys: 16.1576% = 100.0000%17:34
s33dsBENCHMARKn: disp: 189 (8.94 fps)  drop: 127 (40%)  total: 316 (14.94 fps)17:34
KotCzarnyand i said that it had if statement17:34
ssvbpupnik: that comment is a bit misleading, it still uses dspmp3sink on OS2007 (but disables dsppcmsink) but on OS2008 both dspmp3sink and dsppcmsink are disabled17:34
KotCzarnyesd is evil.17:35
s33ds-ao esd... wow, i think codec is missing hehe17:35
s33dsno audio... im so gonna upgrade :)17:36
s33dsBENCHMARKs: VC:  10.641s VO:   3.681s A:   0.060s Sys:   1.461s =   15.843s17:36
s33dsBENCHMARK%: VC: 67.1675% VO: 23.2364% A:  0.3758% Sys:  9.2203% = 100.0000%17:36
s33dsBENCHMARKn: disp: 203 (12.81 fps)  drop: 150 (42%)  total: 353 (22.28 fps)17:36
ssvbKotCzarny: unfortunately esd is the only output driver which provides proper audio/video sync in OS2008 for mplayer at the moment17:36
NaviKotCzarny, OS2007 flashed.17:36
KotCzarnynavi, great17:37
KotCzarnyssvb: what about alsa?17:37
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kikkaHm, where can I find the Images for the 2007he? If I reflash, I could use this. :O17:38
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ssvbKotCzarny: ALSA does not work at all with video, and has some issues with A2DP (when used for audio only)17:38
KotCzarnymp3decsink is disabled in mplayer on HE os too17:38
Naviooh, os2007 was a much simpler time17:39
Naviwith the nerd gadget look to it17:39
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NaviFunny how it can feel so different17:40
Navinot to mention, pressure sensitivity between fingers and stylus works17:41
Navis/between/differentiation between/17:41
infobotNavi meant: not to mention, pressure sensitivity differentiation between fingers and stylus works17:41
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ssvbKotCzarny: generally speaking, I'm waiting for an updated OS2008 firmware before starting to hack this sound stuff (this decision is based on previous OS2007 experience)17:42
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xuserwhere you guys able to add a xterm applet?17:42
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Andy80hi all17:42
KotCzarnyssvb: any idea how long that would be?17:42
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Navianyways, KotCzarny, mplayer installed, going to transfer over your fast-action hardcore porn17:43
KotCzarnyi should have put it somewhere else17:43
Navionly .24 though, not .2517:43
KotCzarnyyou can copy binary alone17:44
KotCzarnyit will work17:44
pupnikCan I force 333mhz speed for CPU to test mplayer on hi-res video?17:44
KotCzarnyn810 has only 1 mmc slot?17:44
ssvbKotCzarny: no idea, but I expect the second OS2008 release to be a major improvement in terms of stability, any system dependent hacks done now may be a wasted effort17:45
Andy80yes KotCzarny17:45
KotCzarnyssvb: if there will be one..17:45
Andy80only one17:45
KotCzarnythey can go all the way into n83017:45
Andy80but it has 2 gb memory included17:45
Navinot even a full mmc slot, it's a minisd slot17:45
KotCzarny4gb sd is cheap17:46
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Andy80I haven't added a mini sd yet17:46
Navi4gb minisd's more expensive :D17:46
KotCzarnyand 810 is missing fm tuner17:46
* Navi likes his full sized SDs17:46
ssvbpupnik: just start DSP accelerated mp3 playback (in built-in player) and cpu will go down to 330MHz17:46
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pupnikok ty17:47
pH5pupnik: or "echo null > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor ; echo 1 > /sys/power/op_active"17:48
KotCzarnycat /sys/power/op_active17:48
KotCzarny3 ?17:48
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pupnikssvb, when i play sdp mp3 and high res video, the framerate is ~ 23 fps.  when I play with esd and libmad, i get ~8 fps17:49
pupniki swear17:49
pH5KotCzarny: OP 3 is 165MHz/110MHz17:50
pupniki will put up some test files17:50
KotCzarnybut it will change automatically?17:50
Navisound works.17:50
s33dspH5 like Sx on cpufreg?17:50
KotCzarnygoes to 0 when playing vid17:51
pH5KotCzarny: as long as the scaling governor is "ondemand" and there is no dsptask/cam running it will scale depending on cpu load.17:51
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KotCzarny- the N810 is at least twice as heavy as the N80017:51
NaviThat's fine17:51
KotCzarnyplaying mp3 via gstreamer sets op_active to 117:52
NaviSome people complained that the N800 felt like light, cheap plastic.17:52
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pH5s33ds: Sx?17:52
KotCzarnyi prefer light than massive17:52
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LynoureNavi: Certainly not light enough :)17:53
LynoureNavi: Feels fine to me. No better or worse than most mobile phones.17:53
Naviframedrops a tad bit17:53
KotCzarnyNo, it only weights 20g more than N800. But it might feel heavier17:54
KotCzarnybecause it is more compact and you don't keep it in your hands the17:54
KotCzarnysame way you do for N8017:54
pH5s33ds: I don't know about P-states, but the operating points are a bunch of clock divider and voltage settings, they are defined in arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-n800-dvfs.c.17:54
Navihard to tell, your fast-paced hardcore porn isn't very fast-paced17:54
KotCzarnyi can rip another scene17:55
KotCzarnyit's a fightclub anyway17:55
NaviI have bleach on my sd17:55
s33dspH5: cool! how do i fetch a kernel source?17:55
Navino worries17:55
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KotCzarnyos2008 ?17:56
KotCzarnynot chinook ?17:56
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NaviKotCzarny, -ao gst -ac dspmp3 on os2007 is more or less the same17:57
s33dshmm, being able to compile your own kernel for a mobile device... tres bien!17:57
s33dsgotta luv linux17:57
KotCzarnynavi: -benchmark -frames 20017:58
KotCzarnyalso see what codec/output it uses17:58
s33dsahh i had a 95% utilizing shell running for some reason on the benchmark i did b418:01
JaffaMornig, all18:02
Naviseems like it's using gst by default18:02
Navi23% framedrop out of 200 frames18:03
s33dsyea same18:03
ssvbs33ds: also consider using -quiet option (to suppress cpu usage by constantly refreshing status on the terminal) and -endpos instead of frames (so that you could specify length in seconds)18:03
s33dsbut other audio outs are fubar.. only loud scratching noise18:04
ssvblength in seconds is convenient as you can easily see if decoding was faster/slower than realtime18:04
ssvbs33ds: for other audio drivers you can't use dspmp3 decoder18:05
ssvbs33ds: they will just get feeded with uncompressed mp3 data and result in only a noise18:06
s33dsso do a mp3decomp trick?18:06
NaviBENCHMARKs: VC: 13.821s VO: 1.377s A: 0.084s Sys: 0.77 s = 15.98318:06
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infobotNavi meant: s/700/70018:07
ssvblol indeed18:07
KotCzarnyslolw even18:07
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s33dsssvb for some reason -endpos uses more off of Sys timing.. but -frames 200 which should be around 8.35s its playback is 12.13s18:09
s33ds19% framedrops, without -framedrop though18:09
KotCzarnyyou have framedrop enabled in /etc/mplayer/mplayer.conf18:10
s33dsahh true18:10
KotCzarnyuse -noframedrop18:10
s33dsok, from 4-5 tests, avg is 11.365 seconds from the 8.35s real-time... about the same as KotCzarny's. Navi yours from this one:18:13
s33dsmplayer -benchmark -frames 200 1.avi -quiet -noframedrop18:13
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s33dstry doing this when issuing heavy video playback on OS2008: while [ 1 ] ; do echo -en "`cat ./sys/power/op_active`" ; sleep .15; done18:22
KotCzarnysleep: invalid number '.15'18:23
KotCzarnybusybox sux18:24
KotCzarnyin this config18:24
s33dsuhm.. the N factor applies here :)18:28
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s33dshmm figured out the failure... doh - i prepped scratchbox with OS200818:30
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pupnikwhat bitrate does 1.avi have?18:32
pupniki'm curious about extracting audio to mp3, then launching gst-launch simultaneously with mplayer18:34
KotCzarnyany mp3 will do18:34
KotCzarnyit's ~128kbit18:34
pupnikno for my own hi-def movies18:34
pupniki know you're testing, i'm making movies18:35
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KotCzarnyah, ok18:35
pupnikdropping ofps to 20fps and running a seperate mp3 might yield watchable movies18:35
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pupnik  some free hi-def content from the evil empire (unzip with pkzip)18:38
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pupnikwe'd be good to go if we could decode mp3 while running cpu at 400mhz18:41
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pupnik800x450 playing nicely at 22fps here18:42
KotCzarnywith kernel patch and fixed mplayer, yes18:42
KotCzarnybut who will do that?18:42
* KotCzarny sleepy18:42
KotCzarny(and my stylus still missing ;/)18:43
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pupnikwhy do half my vids have a green line at the bottom?18:43
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pH5KotCzarny: Who will do that? I would :)18:45
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NaviEw, maemo repositiories keep timing out18:45
lcuk_2the green lines are normally uninitialised yuv planes ;)   (0 byte on the 2nd and 3rd plane instead of 128 for black) ;)18:45
pupnikreducing resolution by 1 didn't fix18:46
pupnikty lcuk_218:46
lcuk_2the uv planes are at half resolution ie 2 pixel squares, try reducing by 218:46
lcuk_2or could of course be an artifact18:47
pupnikahrr ty18:47
lcuk_2i often wondered why peoples media players put green screens up, since i learnt about yuv and how it uses bytes it just makes sense now18:47
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pupniktwo-pass xvid for great justice18:50
xuserwhat app do you use for the camera?18:52
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pupnikcamera app18:55
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pupnikit's just called 'camera' on my system18:57
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xuseryeah found it18:58
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pupnik-nozoom isn't nozooming :/19:02
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KotCzarnyi see my stylus!19:04
ssvbpupnik: works for me19:04
KotCzarnynow to get it out..19:04
ssvbpupnik: what video resolution did you try?19:04
pupniki think i have some stupid encoding options remaining19:05
pupnikVO: [xv] 800x448 => 896x448 Planar YV12  [fs] [zoom]19:05
ssvbpupnik: that's aspect ratio19:05
pupnikmust be stting the res based on a faulty ratio19:05
ssvbyou can try -noaspect if you don't want to take aspect ratio in account19:06
ssvbanyway, if your video needs aspect ratio correction, scaling has to be used for it19:06
pupnikok thanks.  i'll try stuff with 720 w and about ~3xx high19:07
pupnikcause downsampling from 25fps just doesn't look nice19:07
ssvbchanging framerate is a bad idea, it does not look good and may result in audio sync problems19:07
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pupnikssvb, is there a less cpu intensive codec that will yield decent results with larger filesizes?19:08
pupnikmpeg2? :)19:08
ssvbpupnic: -nozoom does not improve performance on n8x0 at all19:09
pupnikoh ok19:09
pupnikso i can reduce resolution however i want19:10
pupnikand let mplayer scale19:10
ssvbpupnik: it will be scaled using LCD controller hardware19:10
lcuk_2scaling upto 800*480 is automatic by the LCD if rendering is through xv - it works really well and is free cpu wise19:10
pupnikway cool.19:11
ssvbhw scaler is using bicubic algorithm, so it also high quality19:11
pupnikarbitrary scaling.  games could use that so damn much19:11
lcuk_2yer pup, the lcd is geared around driving tv displays and so automatically includes this fn :)19:11
xuserhmm... i get very high ping responses when pinging the n81019:11
lcuk_2yer, but its yuv only from what i can see19:12
ssvblcuk_2: it can scale rgb as well19:12
lcuk_2maybe the master could guide us.    ahhh he has ;) thanks ssvb :)19:12
lcuk_2so theoretically we could redirect sdl through a nice channel like that and not worry about basic pixel doubling code19:13
ssvblcuk_2: yes, pixel doubling is actually using this hw scaler19:13
ssvblcuk_2: "pixel doubling" is a bad name by the way, pixels are not doubled, they are smoothly scaled19:14
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lcuk_2dang, i would love to carry on along these lines but family calls, i will no doubt catch you lot again, have a good day19:14
pupnikcu lcuk_219:14
pupnikssvb so by studying mplayer source i can also get a portion of a screen scaled to arbitrary size?19:15
pupnikcan the lcd also scale x and y independently?19:15
ssvbpupnik: yes19:15
pupnikthis would be very useful for emulators like nes and snes19:16
ssvbit scales x and y independently, the only requirement is that it only supports upscaling19:16
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pupnikgreat!  they need stretching19:17
ssvbpupnik, lcuk_2:
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ssvbI think Xv can be easily modified to support rgb color format and it will make a lot more flexible API than XSP pixel doubling19:18
pupniki need to learn about the lcd to detect vsync anyway19:19
ssvbexcept that even this patch is not applied yet:
pupnikssvb did you see i got a NES emulator running at 60fps on 770? :)19:19
Navinow to make it 60FPS on the N8X0!19:20
pupnikit's 97-105 on n8x019:20
* Navi lols19:20
NaviSound still studders?19:20
pupnikno this is a different one19:20
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ssvblcd refresh rate is something between 50 and 60 Hz anyway :)19:21
ssvbat least on 77019:21
pupniknice bug ssvb19:21
Navimmpc is missing updatedb19:21
pupnikcongrats ssvb for the xv speedup19:22
ssvbpupnik: if we can start getting patches added into core system components, better games/emulators performance can be achieved19:22
ssvbpupnik: that's a very old patch, basically all the performance difference between '-vo nokia770' and '-vo xv' can be attributed to this optimization19:23
pupnikah so mplayer uses it already?19:24
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pupnikor does it need new xserver19:24
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ssvbpupnik: mplayer uses it in its own code, but if this optimization gets into xserver, every application using Xv will get faster19:25
pupnikthere's another application using it? :)19:25
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pupnikwell that's great news19:25
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Navithe screen is locked, but I can scroll with the dpad19:26
ssvbpupnik: gstreamer xv sink (built-in player, canola, etc.)19:26
Naviand I can't unlock the screen19:26
Navihard keys aren't locked >_>19:26
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s33dsssvb, patch is awesome ^^19:30
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s33dspush the devs a bit more for a future release ;)19:30
pupniksee the bottom - daniel says it's going in the next os200819:30
s33ds-O4 the DSP bits and rock on hehe *gG*19:31
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KotCzarnyi got my stylus back!19:32
KotCzarnygo me!19:32
trulsme too19:33
xuseruse your finger :D19:33
trulsmine was hiding on the floor19:33
trulstrying to be invisible in plain view19:33
KotCzarnymine was stuck deep in heating appliance19:33
AustinMan, the browser is in desperate need of a popup blocker.19:34
KotCzarnyuse adblock+ ?19:34
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pupnikwow, transcoding 1280x720p to 640x360 almost gives 25fps19:45
KotCzarnyfull screen or death.19:45
GeneralAntillesAustin, AdBlock Plus, Flash Block, hosts, css19:45
GeneralAntillesTake your pick19:45
GeneralAntillesPrivoxy, even.19:45
pupnikwow, transcoding 1280x720p to 640x360 almost gives 25fps19:45
KotCzarnyi was going to say19:45
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pupnikbtw frames=fps*10 is a bit more easy to convert19:51
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pupnikso atm i'm at 11.459s on a 250 frame clip :/  reencoding at 561x31619:51
pupnikhooray for no-cost arbitrary scaling!19:52
pupnikno cpu cost19:54
spirytusickpupnik: well done :) congrats!19:54
KotCzarnywhat does work then?19:54
pupnikok 560x316 yields 8.621s19:54
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pupnik(under 10 = 25+fps19:55
pupnikand frankly i can't tell the missing resolution from 800x480 unless i pause it19:55
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KotCzarnyyou will miss crispiness19:56
pupniknow with dsp mp3 playback...19:56
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ssvbpupnik: unless you can make it run at 400/133, better forget about DSP for audio decoding19:58
ssvbpupnik: mp3 decoding on ARM can be also optimized19:59
pupnikanother stupid thing, my mencoder script is encoding audio @ 48000hz yet esd runs at 44100 hz19:59
KotCzarnyesd sucks20:00
pupnikno i suck because i didn't specify the freq of the mp3 correctly20:00
ssvbpupnik: and now I'm experimenting with vorbis floating point optimizations (ffvorbis decoder), it has a good potential to become a lot faster than tremor20:01
pupniki'm researching lame options20:02
ssvbwith .25 mplayer release, we are now almost at the crossover point (-ac ffvorbis is almost as fast as the now default tremor decoder)20:03
cLinhow do i uninstall something like dropbear?20:03
KotCzarnydpkg -r20:03
cLinwhats the command to show a list if instaleld programs20:06
KotCzarnydpkg -l20:06
cLinoh great20:06
cLinits so long it scrolled out20:06
KotCzarnyinstall less20:07
pupnikor maemo-list-user-packages for just the user-installed applications20:07
KotCzarnythen do dpkg -h|less20:07
cLinthanks, list user packages worked20:08
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cLini can't seem to get rid of dropbear. says subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 10220:09
KotCzarnydpkg sucks, sometimes20:09
cLinis there like a maemo-uninstall?20:10
pupnikare you using dropbear ssh at the moment?20:10
KotCzarnyit will use dpkg anyway20:10
KotCzarnyso it will return error too20:10
cLindont think so. everything is off20:10
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cLinanyone know what the error is?20:13
pupniknot offhand but i have dropbear on another device20:14
cLini want toinstall openssh and it says dropbear conflicts20:14
pupniktry running /etc/init.d/dropbear stop20:14
pupnikthen reuninstall dropbear20:14
pupnik(run that as root of course)20:15
KotCzarnyjust force it20:16
KotCzarnyor read what exactly is the problem20:16
cLini am20:16
KotCzarnyshould be on screen20:16
cLinor can i use dropbear to have winscp connect to me?20:16
cLinto the n80020:16
pupnikdropbear can do scp20:17
pupnikit can't do certain options though20:17
jaska_doesnt have a sftp server iirc20:17
GeneralAntillesThere's not a whole lot of point runinng dropbear over openssh on the N8x0s.20:18
KotCzarnyyeah, openssh is better20:18
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pupnikok 512x308 and -ao sdl seems better than -ao esd...20:26
pupnikthough i try to make 22050 khz mp3 AUDIO: says 48000 hz in mplayer20:27
KoshiOut of interest, in the bottom right in the browser theres a count every tiie you load a page. Is that the number of images or data transfered?20:28
lcuk_2thats the count of how many kittens god has killed20:28
KoshiMental note *takke more care to avoid this or that questions in the future...*20:29
GeneralAntillesObjects, koshi.20:29
KoshiAh i see, thanks, il go google what those objects are20:32
lcuk_2its any image or script file or xss file or subframe etc20:33
lcuk_2real answer this time ;)20:33
KoshiHmm, just found that as well. Wasnt aware of that tag. well makes this problem easier20:34
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KotCzarnyok, time to bed20:41
NaviKotCzarny, lmao20:41
TuxProbeanyone knows th perfect 'hideout' for an i386 / arm (host/target) toolchain?20:41
xuserhow do I make the fn button work in rdesktop?20:41
NaviKotCzarny, I'd hate to have your sleeping habits.20:41
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inteliwaspis there a way to get new applets for the home sreen?21:02
GeneralAntillesDownload them?21:02
inteliwaspGeneralAntilles, wherre?21:03
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* inteliwasp gets kind of clueless sometimes...21:03 or
keesjinteliwasp: look for the download link on the page21:04
keesjthere are a few21:04
NaviI want to use applets21:04
Navibut I don't like clutter on my home screen21:05
keesjmi applet used to work , but I did not even try it on it2008 because all the applets move all the time21:05
NaviYeah, it's pretty annoying21:06
NaviI liked it on os2007 a bit better21:06
keesjI applet relied on movent within the applet21:06
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ZicHmm, I've got a question about existance, what the meaning of 'osso' in some application names ?21:21
Zicrelied to Maemo, but where …21:21
keesjZic: it is the name of de department where this software is created withing nokia21:21
Zicoh, ok :)21:21
keesjit is something that ended up in the names and they are trying to remove :p21:22
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michele_the tablets need cool people doing new things like these
michele_enough with the q'n'd ports21:44
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keesjq'n'd ?21:44
michele_quick and dirty21:44
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pupnikand you are not useless how, michele_21:47
michele_pupnik: I didn' mean to offend21:47
NaviHeh, that's sexy21:48
pupniki would guess the number of developers is mainly a function of market share21:49
keesjI tried to look at the like but i only get a white square. what is good about it?21:49
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michele_pupnik: I think they are correlated21:49
Navithe iPhone has a larger user base, so sexier apps/games/programs/stuff21:49
michele_mutually I mean21:49
GeneralAntillesThe iPhone also has the advantage of a bunch of OS X developers who like to focus on glitz and glam.21:50
NaviWe have the advantage of NERDZZZZZZ21:51
NaviDirty Linux apps21:51
pupnikhow many commercial apps are there for the tablets?21:51
shackanmmm, rhapsody, navicore21:51
keesjI guess a few by now21:51
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keesjhow many for linux?21:52
NaviMuch more21:52
Navibut they're still in the vast majority21:52
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GeneralAntillesPlus that one stupid PIM thing that nobody's ever bought.21:52
Lynoureshadowplan supposedly works in the tablets too, so would not be surprised if many other commercial Linux apps did too21:52
infobotNavi meant: but they're still in the vast minority21:52
shackanGeneralAntilles: what?21:52
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keesjskype also does not fals under commercial in my definition21:53
sxpertfalls under what ?21:53
keesjI would cal skype a commercial application21:54
GeneralAntillesThere's some stupid little todo/note manager app that they want to change $20 for.21:55
LynoureGeneralAntilles: Sounds like Shadowplan, except I would not call in stupid :)21:55
LynoureSure, it's less nice than Basket, but I have not tried to shovel Basket into a tablet.21:56
infobotLynoure meant: Sure, it's less nice than Basket, but I have not tried to shovel Basket itto a tablet.21:56
Lynoureheh, näh, meant the previous one, that actually had a typo :)21:56
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snuffelsI have a quesion concerning the N770 RTC: Is there a second battery for that?21:58
snuffelsIt seems ma N770 looses time/date when i turn it off21:58
GeneralAntillesI've seen one in the N80021:58
GeneralAntillesI suppose there's one in the 770.21:58
snuffelsworked just fine for many years, but suddenly it stopped working21:58
snuffelsGeneralAntilles: Is there any docu where these battary is located? I have searched the net without success.21:59
GeneralAntillesEh, you'll see it if you can manage to get it open without breaking anything22:00
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I would either use it like it's supposed to be used, and never turn it off, or setup ntp syncing at boot.22:00
snuffelsI'm just wondering why I can't simply replace that battery22:01
snuffelsNokia seemed to have done a major design flaw22:02
GeneralAntillesYou could22:02
GeneralAntillesBut it's gonna be a pain to get it open.22:02
GeneralAntillesand, really, do you know of any mobile device that's easy to get open?22:03
LynoureN800 has easy to get to battery, at least, though Treo 650's is even easier :)22:03
GeneralAntillesBesides, losing the date when powering off (which you really shouldn't be doing anyway) is hardly a "major design flaw".22:04
snuffelsGeneralAntilles: I consider making it hard/impossible to replace a battery that is known to work only for two years a major design flaw22:06
snuffelsGeneralAntilles: If casio would tell me that i have to discard my 200$ wrist watch just because the 4$ battery is out of juice22:07
snuffelsI would certainly consider them being morons ;-)22:08
GeneralAntillesThe 770 doesn't stop working when this battery dies. :\22:08
GeneralAntillesBesides, the batteries in both of my 770s are still working.22:08
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snuffelsGeneralAntilles: Maybe that's because mine is turned off, when I don't use it.22:11
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GeneralAntillesWhich is stupid22:14
GeneralAntillesAs the devices are designed to be left on 24/722:14
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KoshiWith its uptime its a crime to turn it off22:15
Koshiuptime = power consumption22:16
snuffelsKoshi: As I don't use vpenis I do not care about uptime. ;-)22:16
Koshi:) thought one thing, typed another22:16
KoshiActually what do people use these tablets for?22:19
xuserhow do i make the AM list all packages?22:19
NaviKoshi, watching pr0n, duh22:20
KoshiIn 2008 os its a case of pressing browse installable applications -> all tab22:21
xuserKoshi: yeah, but i upgrade to image 2.0 and now i don't see it.22:21
snuffelsNavi: on that small display???22:22
KoshiOh no idea then sorry22:22
GeneralAntillesN800 is a fantastic mobile video player.22:22
GeneralAntillesScreen look awesome.22:22
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Screen looks awesome.22:22
Naviespecially weet nekked gurllllzzzz lololol22:22
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KoshiOther then a toy, i see this as a holiday/weekend away laptop replacement.22:26
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Yankeri see an opportunity to build a powerful OS and get the VOIP implemented in a device, capeable of following you everywhere!22:40
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GeneralAntillesVOIP has already been implemented.22:41
Yankeryea but now you carry it around, loggin in with wifi :)22:41
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Yankeronly thing, its missing is the SIM, which greatly would improve connectivity (also wifi-less)22:42
Yankersay, if for instance lots of people has tablets or alike with wifi - when they jump on a hotspot somewhere, they download some data22:42
Yankerrss/news/cached webbies etc..22:43
GeneralAntillesI have a cellphone for cellular access.22:43
GeneralAntillesThe day Nokia adds SIM slots to all of the tablets is the day I find another platform.22:43
GeneralAntillesBluetooth tethering works just fine for connectivity.22:43
Yankerif ppl would allow for these data to be shared with other tablets/phones, parts of the internet would be brought to them without having to use any ISP22:44
Yankertrue, just carry a phone along with you as well :)22:44
Yankerlets call it collaborating ad-hoc-networks? =)22:45
shackanyou mean mesh networks22:45
Yankerjust a stupid idea on how to spread news-feeds among ppl hehe22:45
Yankerindeed shackan22:45
shackanspread what?22:45
Yankerpr0n!¡! *gG*22:46
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kikkaHm, the application manager doesn't start....22:48
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cLincrud, i do not know why it won't let me uninstall dropbear. i want to install openssh server so i can use winscp and access my n80022:50
dskippy_Does anyone know of a simple way to just change a scrollbar in GTK to be wider? I am fine if this changes all scrollbars on the system to be wider as well.22:50
dskippy_Editing /home/user/.gtkrc-2.0 doesn't work for me but that's the answer I find everywhere.22:50
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kikkaI hate this crap.22:56
kikkaWhy don't the app-manager starts normally.22:56
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GeneralAntilleskikka, what in the world have you been doing to your device?22:57
GeneralAntillesYou seem to be failing miserably at every point possible.22:58
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cLinAnyone ever have this error uninstalling anything: Subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 10222:59
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AustinLook at that script and find out the circumstances under which it'd return 102.23:01
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cLinit's the dropbear script. i dont even know what i'm looking for23:01
Yankertrying to enhance the busybox clin?23:01
cLintrying to uninstall dropbear to install openssh23:02
pupnikdid you google the error message?23:02
Yankeron a win-box?23:02
cLinon my n80023:02
cLini did, but it doesn't seem to tell me much. it's just set of instructions for ubuntu23:03
dskippy_Is there a gtk theme file somewhere that the maeemo uses that I can adjust?23:03
Yankeroh my bad, mistook dropbear for something else hehe23:03
cLinany ideas? or what happens if remove the file? can i force it or something23:04
Yankerits not done from package manager?23:04
cLini tried that and dpkg -r from xterm23:04
kikka GeneralAntilles: I don't know. nokia repair service.. (but I can still install something via apt-get, ...)23:05
Yankerdpkg --purge / --remove23:05
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cLintried it23:06
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cLinsays error processing dropbear23:06
cLinthen the error iposted above23:07
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kikkaHow can I start the app-manager via commandline?23:08
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dskippy_Where are the system themes stored for GTK?23:18
* kikka will reflash it again (the last time, I hope :/) tommorow.23:23
Yanker66Mhz Matters!23:25
* florian can beat that ;)23:25
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pupnikyou do notice it in mplayer23:29
deusxHi all, just got a N810, anyone know where I can get software that will let me read excel sheets on my tablet?23:29
ynezzkikka: hildon-application-manager or you can use apt23:29
kikkaynezz: Thanks, yeah.23:31
pupnikdeusx: gnumeric could do that. dunno about the port status.23:31
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deusxhmm..i thought there was a gnumeric for the nokia but I didnt know it could do that23:31
sbkI have a silly question23:32
deusxits surprising after years of these tablets being out, someone has filled the need for an excel reader23:32
Spakmandoes anyone here have the source to the ruby-maemo bindings?23:32
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sbkI recieved my nokia 810 yesturday23:32
sbkwhen I enter my product key23:32
sbkit says "invalid"23:32
sbkto get OS200823:32
sbkmy 810 says I have OS2008 on it, but it hasen't been updated since march 0723:33
pupniksbk Control Panel -> About Product .. it should be your WLAN MAC addr23:34
sbkyes, when I enter that in vertabim it says its invalid23:35
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pupnikdunno then, maybe call customer support23:36
dookdookon the off chance anyone would know: error: selected processor does not suport smulbb.  but i see in the quick reference smulxy is supported...whats the xy?23:36
sbkdoes anyone have a copy of the latest OS08?23:36
sbkI can reflash it myself23:36
sbkbtw I haven't owned a nokia since the 6800 phone23:37
sbkand this N810 is amazing23:37
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* pupnik agrees23:38
* ynezz too23:39
sbkthe browsing ... the capability...23:39
sbkI bought it to replace pen & paper at my office23:39
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sbksince I have a iphone, and its really not that good in the office23:39
sbkthe N810 was the most perfect edition23:40
sbk< network engineer23:40
sbkneedless to say, im frustrated about this firmware upgrade23:41
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ssvbdookdook: you need to provide gcc with -mcpu option23:45
dookdookssvb, i'm in the scratchbox thing with CHINOOK_ARMEL...23:46
ssvbdookdook: for nokia 770 it is "-mcpu=arm926ej-s", for nokia n800/n810 it is -mcpu=arm1136jf-s"23:46
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ssvbdookdook: so what?23:46
DaniloCesarSomeone here uses Pluthon?23:46
dookdookssvb, sorry, thought it would automaticaly compile to the chipset...23:47
dookdooklet me try23:47
dookdookssvb, thanks, that worked23:48
ssvbdookdook: this is ARM enhanced DSP instruction, for processors which support armv5te instructions23:48
ssvbthere are older ARM cores which do not have it23:49
ssvbyou are welcome23:49
ssvbbtw, what are you trying to compile?23:49
GeneralAntillessdk, you can try the WLAN range from here:
GeneralAntillesIf it's not working, you're either entering the wrong number (misreading, maybe?) or on the wrong page.23:50
GeneralAntillesYou are on right?23:50
dookdookssvb, a test to compare some mpeg2 compression written in c vs. some code yanked from ffmeg for armv6?23:50
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sbkI'm not tho23:50
sbkyeah thats the page I was using23:51
sbkThank you GeneralAntilles23:51
ssvbdookdook: that's interesting, I would like to also know the results once you have them23:54
sbkI don't under stand what they mean by this23:58
sbkGOT IT!23:58
Tama^2now you only have to wait for the download to complete23:59
Tama^22 hours later...23:59
sbkwell, I have gigabit ethernet at my office23:59
GeneralAntillesIt's been plenty fast for me.23:59
sbkunless their servers are slow :P23:59
sbkI work @ a wholesale bandwidth provider23:59

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