IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-02-29

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lcuk:O i love my missus00:01
lcukshe is the best :D00:01
lcuk:D she found my stylus00:01
GeneralAntillesShe crafted you a stylus out of soap?00:01
Navisexy00:02
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lcukshes gonna gloat about it for a week now tho00:02
GeneralAntillesHaha00:02
lcukcos a few days ago she said "if you dont put it away you'll lose it..."00:02
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lcuki had to go all sheepish and ask if she had seen it cos i had "misplaced" it.  the cow laughed so loud she nearly set off another earthquake00:03
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lcukbut i love her now, and *cough* she was right all along.00:03
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livindedare any of the open source maps good for the n810?00:25
Naviopen source maps?00:26
johnxopenstreetmap looks nice, if it covers your area00:26
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livindedno way am I paying $129 for 36 months00:27
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GeneralAntillesThe price is just for voice nav.00:27
GeneralAntillesYou can use the maps for free.00:28
livindedit keeps asking me to buy it00:28
johnxtry maemo mapper00:29
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lopzbuenas noches :D01:40
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dospodhey peeps01:45
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lcukHey guys, anyone know the nicest cleanest way for an x11(with xv) or sdl driven application to sleep and wait for input  the most recently displayed image should remain on the screen, but i dont want to waste cpu usage rendering millions of identical frames.?02:18
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elbyou don't have to redraw at all02:19
elbunless your window is occluded02:19
lcukyer, but what do i do instead?   there isn't a twiddle my thumbs cpu opcode.02:20
derfJust use SDL_WaitEvent().02:20
elbright, you don't have to -- the operating system takes care of that for you02:20
lcukahhhhh :D excellent02:20
derfThere actually is a twiidle your thumbs cpu opcode.02:20
elbjust select() on your inputs02:20
elb(which is almost assuredly what SDL_WaitEvent() does)02:21
derfMost CPUs spend most of their time twiddling their thumbs.02:21
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lcuki bet i can't use that with an x11 window can i02:21
derfIt's very important that they do it well.02:21
derfX11 has its own function.02:21
lcukexcactly, thats why i was asking, but theres no built in magic.  its different per library02:21
derfXNextEvent().02:22
derfWell, what's different is the conditions under which you want to _stop_ twiddling your thumbs.02:22
elbderf: heh actually, doing it well is a very recent phenomenon02:22
derfelb: I know.02:22
derfThat doesn't make it less important!02:22
elbso true02:22
lcuki already use a loop: while(XEventsQueued(dpy, QueuedAfterReading) > 0)  and inside i run the xNextEvent, but when that finishes i would keep cycling round02:22
lcuk(thats in my inner until done loop02:23
elbyou want to wrap that in something that waits for events02:23
derfXNextEvent() waits for events if there aren't any.02:23
lcukahhhh thats it derf02:23
lcukthat also explains the longer startup time (first frame is coming out at almost a second02:24
elbI'm betting the SDL wait function handles X events as well as SDL events02:24
elb(for X11 SDL)02:24
lcukother frames are ~25fps02:24
elbbut the documentation should tell you that02:24
derfThe longer start time is probably actually caused by the time it takes to page in the binary.02:24
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lcuki assumed it was a "Shown()" type event and x and xv were just doing a bit with it02:28
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dmz:( rtcomm won't work on 770 running hacked os :(04:13
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XATRIXdmz> what does it mean rtcomm ?04:21
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dmzhttp://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/04:22
johnxdmz, what happens if you try to install/use it?04:23
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dmzit reports lots of dependencies not being there04:28
dmzi don't think i'm on os200804:28
dmzgotta see if there is a version for the 770, i'm going to get an 810 in about 2 months but until then i've got the 77004:28
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johnxthere's an OS2008HE for the 770, but it's supposedly kinda slow04:30
* johnx has an N80004:30
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lopzbye05:07
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dookdookyeah, ok.  so what are the ip and fp used for and why are they being altered?06:27
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livindedI don't think fp is being altered, I it's being stored on the stack06:30
livindedstmfd stores multiple registers onto the stack06:30
dookdooksub fp, ip, #406:31
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dookdookyeah, thats what the stmfd is fore...06:31
dookdook*for06:31
dookdookbut after it saves the fp, ip (which has been loaded with the sp), lr and pc, it alteres fp and sp...06:31
dookdook*alters06:31
livindedwhat is the instruction after sub sp, sp, #8?06:31
dookdookthe actual code...and let me be more specifc...so i'm calling foo1 with one integer argument and it just prints out that argument06:33
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dookdookhere, let me paste it in a pastebin actually, that'll be easier06:33
livindedso it's storing fp, ip, and lr onto the stack06:34
livindedthen it's subtracting 4 from ip and storing the value in fp06:34
dookdookhttp://rafb.net/p/4lROMS15.html06:35
dookdookthe c code...06:35
livindedthen moving the stack back 8 bytes06:35
livindedso it's moving the stack to where ip is stored06:35
dookdookhttp://rafb.net/p/sfKKiO93.html06:36
dookdookwhat it compiles too06:36
dookdook*to06:36
dookdookbut doesn't the stack grow downwards?06:36
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livindedI'm not positive about arm, but I think so06:38
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Tama^2OS2007 is fugly compared to OS2008 but it works so much better...06:49
Tama^2O.o06:49
Tama^2unbelivable06:49
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dookdookwell, how-dee:  http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/pcheung/teaching/ee2_computing/arm/Progtech.pdf07:05
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dookdookyeah, i think ip and pc are vestiges of a by-gone era.  program counter is really the instruction pointer and instruction pointer is just used as scratch?07:07
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KotCzarnyhi07:27
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pupnikhoppe is even more entertaining than rothbard10:44
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pepie34is there a PIM suite runing on maemo that can be sync with outlook or any pim suite (like evolution for windows) runing on windows ?11:28
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aquatixhttp://www.pimlico-project.org/dates.html11:31
aquatixpepie34: and the other programs in that suite11:31
aquatixthey use evolution dataserver11:32
KotCzarnybtw. newbie question, how to create packages from sources for maemo?11:33
KotCzarnyi have installed sdk and built app11:33
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KotCzarnybut how to package it?11:33
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pepie34aquatix sync prog seems to be in really early stage11:34
aquatixyeah :/11:35
aquatixmaybe use something else instead, but i'm not sure what :)11:35
aquatixsyncml or something11:35
aquatixwasn't there an opensync package for maemo?11:35
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pepie34yes i think so11:39
pepie34but dunno if evolution for windows can handle this11:39
aquatixno idea11:40
aquatixnever even tried running evolution on windows :)11:40
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jkuKotCzarny, http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/making_application_packages.html12:21
KotCzarnythx12:21
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floriangood morning12:27
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XATRIXhi13:27
XATRIXis there any russification for maemo ?13:27
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ssvbXATRIX: Russian is supported on internet tablets out of the box13:29
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BTobotrasXATRIX: stop asking, buy it already :-)13:31
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herziis there an irc channel dedicated to maemo-mapper?13:31
XATRIXBTobotras> :)13:31
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XATRIXBTobotras> i bought it :))) it will be delivered to me today :)13:32
aquatixooh, congrats :)13:32
BTobotrasXATRIX: oh, congrats! Which one?13:32
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XATRIX770 !  i can't deal with that web-shop13:33
XATRIXanyway it would be my FIRST tablet :)13:33
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XATRIXso...i'll upgrade to 800 sometime later13:33
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aquatixany reason you didn't buy an 800 now?13:34
XATRIXin is much more expensive than 770....here in ukraine13:35
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XATRIX~550$13:35
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michele_hello13:35
aquatixah yeah13:35
XATRIXi bought 770 for 20013:35
aquatixhey michele_13:35
XATRIX$13:35
XATRIXhi13:35
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michele_I got the N810 gps to fix at 10000m and 730km/h :)13:36
XATRIX:)13:36
MoRpHeUzmichele_: great! =)13:36
michele_too bad I didn't have anything to get a screenshoot13:36
glasshehe13:37
glassphone gps's get a fix pretty good at airplanes too13:37
aquatixmichele_: get that load applet thing13:37
michele_aquatix: I am not on the plane anymore13:37
aquatixmichele_: for the trip back or something ;)13:37
michele_I am already back :(13:37
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XATRIXi saw, there's a bootloader for booting from MMC cards? isn't there ?    so i can boot any other linux witch supports ARM arch ?13:38
aquatixi'll take a screenshot in May when i'm flying13:38
XATRIXfor example gentoo ?13:38
michele_XATRIX: start here http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian13:38
XATRIXok13:39
johnxXATRIX, you're stuck with the Nokia kernel13:40
johnxwell, you can recompile Nokia's kernel from source if you want13:40
XATRIXarrrgh.....why are you directing me to this forum ? it has background 810 :)))))13:40
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XATRIXoh...it supports cpu freq scaling :)13:41
BTobotrasXATRIX: but what for? Just use whatever cames from Nokia. There are many more insteresting things to do with tablet than just booting "your personal" kernel...13:41
johnxnot on the 770...13:41
lopzhi13:41
michele_BTobotras: it's gentoo! it's more optimizied!13:42
* michele_ runs13:42
aquatix:)13:42
XATRIXjohnx> there's no cpufreq on 770 at all ?13:42
XATRIXor just not preinstalled13:42
johnxI don't believe so13:42
johnxcpufreq is a feature of the kernel13:42
johnxif the kernel doesn't support it, then installing different programs won't change that13:43
johnxDebian on the tablets still uses Nokia's kernel13:43
XATRIXyes...i know....i have centrino lappy13:43
XATRIXi mean is this future supported by hardware of device ?13:43
johnxmaybe, but I doubt anyone will write a driver for the 77013:44
XATRIXso...i guess i would be the first one who will try to run gentoo linux on 770 ?13:45
johnxyes13:45
johnxas far as I know13:45
herziXATRIX: why would you want to do that?13:45
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GeneralAntilles770 is already about as overclocked as it's gonna get.13:45
johnxyou can follow a lot of the info about putting Debian on the tablet13:45
BTobotrasherzi: 'cause he's got too much spare time at his hands?13:46
* BTobotras hides13:46
GeneralAntillesand the OMAP1710 can't do voltage scaling, so underclocking really wont save you any battery.13:46
XATRIXherzi> i like to make an experiments:)13:46
johnxXATRIX, good for you :D13:46
herziXATRIX: and what would be the outcome of the experiment? (you want to have a certain outreach, no?)13:46
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XATRIXeemm....do you mean outcom = result ?13:47
solmumahasource based distro on 770... you will need a lot of spare time13:47
XATRIXi'm not so good in english :) sorry13:47
aquatixXATRIX: yeah13:47
herziXATRIX: yes13:47
herzilet me rephrase it: what do you want to "win" by using gentoo? you can hardly optimize the compiled software more than it already is13:48
johnxXATRIX, just as an example the kernel will probably take a day or two to compile if you have your source on NFS...13:48
aquatixyou can always cross-compile13:48
XATRIXgentoo is a fastest linux distribution that i ever saw....and it could be optimized as far as you can13:48
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ynezzit's hoax13:49
XATRIXand13:49
aquatixmyeah, but don't you think nokia optimised for the thing already?13:49
johnxthe distribution Nokia provides is already optimized specifically for this hardware...13:49
johnxbut I think you should try it if you want to13:49
XATRIXmaybe i'm wrong...but debian on 770 would be "cuted" edition13:49
* michele_ misses funroll-loops.org13:49
XATRIXnot full futured13:49
johnxThe Debian thats mentioned on that wiki is *the real Debian*13:50
johnxall the packages that can be compiled for arm are available13:50
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johnxright out of the box13:50
herzimichele_: :-)13:50
herziricers!13:50
XATRIXand i just want to experiment with full rebuild of nokia as far as it possible :) customization...optimization13:51
johnxherzi, he wants to try. let him. :) maybe he can help me figure out how to get sound working right in a non-Nokia distro. :)13:51
XATRIXand just find of a new way of using it :)13:51
aquatixsounds interesting, XATRIX :)13:52
herzijohnx: I'm not stopping him13:52
XATRIXherzi> sorry for my qustion....are you a developer of maemo or nokia crew ?13:52
aquatixbut i think cross-compiling will be key, as compiling on the n770 will take years ;)13:52
XATRIX:)13:52
johnxaquatix, you're being optimistic O_o13:53
herziXATRIX: I maintain an application which also includes its maemo-port13:53
herzian open-source app13:53
aquatixjohnx: i always am ;)13:53
XATRIXah....i know how to say it in russian....but my english knowledge is not enough :)))13:54
XATRIXI JUST NEED SOMETHING TO START FROM :))13:54
XATRIXoh...sorry for caps13:54
herziXATRIX: if you need some ideas for maemo-related hacking, take a look here http://tinyurl.com/ynnl3x13:55
XATRIXok...i'll definetly take a look there13:55
* BTobotras confirms his previous diagnosis: too much spare time :)13:55
michele_herzi: monkey bubble works on maemo?!13:56
herzimichele_: yes13:56
michele_*bong*13:56
johnxXATRIX, grab a gentoo arm stage3 and look at "how I did it" on the debian on N800 wiki13:56
herzimichele_: fallen off the chair?13:56
aquatixBTobotras: ;)13:56
johnxa lot of the problems I ran into will apply13:56
michele_herzi: right13:56
aquatixwe can only be jealous ;)13:56
herzisomeone from finland made a port (I guess he did it in his job for nokia)13:57
XATRIXjohnx> ok....13:57
michele_herzi: are there packages available?13:57
herziand then I merged the diff back into upstream13:57
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herzino, I'm too lazy13:57
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herzibut it should be quite easy once you have librsvg from maemo extras13:57
michele_herzi: should I get cvs or is 0.4 fine?13:57
herzisubversion13:57
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herzi0.4 was the version that has been forked, there's no public release with the maemo-ui13:57
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K-Foxwhat is a command to delete drectory?13:58
herzirmdir?13:58
K-Foxok13:59
herzibut the folder has to be empty for rmdir13:59
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herzirm -r removes a folder recursively13:59
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K-Foxsvn checkout https://phoneme.dev.java.net/svn/phoneme/components/tools/trunk14:00
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K-Fox-sh : svn: not found14:01
aquatixhm, is there some port of gnumeric for maemo btw?14:01
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johnxaquatix, I believe so14:01
aquatixapt-get install subversion ;)14:01
herziaquatix: I guess so, did you try to google it?14:01
aquatixjohnx: /me googles14:01
aquatixherzi: normally i google first14:01
aquatixdon't ask why i'm being lazy today :)14:01
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K-Foxaquatix : it's good k14:01
aquatixmeh, only for OS200714:02
johnxaquatix, maemo chinook gnumeric14:02
johnxfirst result looks good...14:02
BugBlueit works on OS200814:03
aquatixhttp://people.debian.org/~tschmidt/maemo/chinook/gnumeric/ you mean?14:03
aquatixhey BugBlue :)14:03
johnxyeah and I've seen it mentioned on itt forums I believe14:03
johnxI have no need for a spreadsheet on a handheld though, so I haven't tested it...14:04
BugBlueheej aquatix14:04
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BTobotrasXATRIX: you'd better do something useful for others! ;-)14:14
herziBTobotras: I proposed some useful tasks he he promised to look into them14:15
XATRIXany ideas on what should i concentrate my efforts ?14:15
herzihttp://bugs.gnome.org/509498 << this one should be quite straight forward; you just need to look into monkey-bubble's source and the maemo reference to be able to accomplish this one14:16
bedboiis it difficult to find micro to mini sd adapters?14:17
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aquatixbedboi: no14:18
aquatixhttp://www.google.nl/search?q=microsd+minisd+adapter&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a14:18
bedboii got a micro sd for my neo1973 but i want to use it also in my n81014:18
aquatixhttp://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/10533.htm for example14:18
aquatixand i guess lots of other stores have them too14:19
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aquatixhttp://www.semsons.com/mitomiadbpa.html is cheaper14:19
BTobotrasXATRIX: useful calendar14:19
herziBTobotras: that's a really hard one...14:20
aquatixBTobotras: or make Dates more useful :)14:20
aquatixbut synchronising with other devices/servers would be nice14:20
XATRIX....heh...phrase on bash.org.ru,  "....two days in coding, and you type faster than talk" :))14:20
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XATRIXBTobotras> isn't it true that nokia in need of a calendar ?14:21
bedboiaquarius-: thanks14:21
aquatixwell, there is http://www.pimlico-project.org/14:21
bedbois/aquarius-/aquatix14:21
aquatixbedboi: :)14:22
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bedboiaquatix: dates is a good application btw it still misses some important features.14:24
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aquatixmyeah14:24
aquatixhaven't used it much yet14:25
aquatixbasically only imported fosdem's ical in it ;)14:25
BTobotrasXATRIX: definitely14:28
BTobotrasaquarius-: or this way, right :)14:28
BugBluebedboi: if you want the real cheap (but working!) version: dealextreme.com14:28
BugBlue(all chinese crap you never wanted to have)14:29
aquatixah yeah, dealextreme :)14:29
aquatixbedboi: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.718414:32
GeneralAntillesdealextreme is the best.14:32
aquatixit's fscking small :)14:32
aquatixand -cheap14:32
GeneralAntillesI ordered about 10lbs of adaptors from them a few months ago.14:32
bedboithe only problem is that i'm EU based atm14:32
bedboiwell it is not a problem actually14:32
GeneralAntillesOnly cost me about $3014:32
bedboidollar is crappy now14:32
aquatixfree shipping14:32
GeneralAntillesWould've been $1000 at Radio Shack or similar.14:32
BugBlue:D14:32
aquatixbedboi: so, that would be... 0.80 EUR i guess :)14:33
bedboiaquatix: i guess it is free if you get it in the states14:33
* aquatix orders :D14:33
johnxRadio shack is an ungodly rip-off14:33
* BugBlue is EU based.. and as long as people want to have dollars I'm glad to pay them in.. but I won't take them14:33
aquatixbedboi: no, free shipping to EU14:33
bedboiNAH!14:33
aquatixBugBlue: right?14:33
bedboii can't believe it14:33
GeneralAntillesAll electronics stores are ripoffs.14:33
aquatixbetter order two :)14:34
johnxRadiosHack is more of a rip-off than fry's in general14:34
bedboii'll order tons of gadgets14:34
BugBlueaquatix: jups14:34
aquatixbedboi: see?14:34
aquatix:)14:34
bedboiaquatix: are you sure it's free for EU?14:35
aquatixbedboi: BugBlue has been doing it for a while14:35
bedboiBugBlue: you are the man!14:35
* aquatix orders two14:35
bedboii miss a lot doing shopping online14:35
bedboiwhich i really abused during my stay in US14:35
aquatixerm14:36
aquatixonly paypal?14:36
BugBlueonly if you want registered airmail instead of some cheaper mail option you pay 1.3014:36
* BugBlue does most of the shopping online14:36
BugBlueseems to work very well.. ecspecially when I order in poland or so or latvia14:37
BugBluesame day shipped = next morning at the doorstep14:37
BugBlueas long as it is EU there is no problem... outside it takes more time14:37
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BugBluecustoms tend to screw up things...14:37
bedboiman i'll place a huge order14:38
BugBluebut I guess 1 tf card with customs value of about 1.50HK$ (about 1 eur) is no problem14:38
BugBluebedboi: first try one14:38
BugBlueor 2...14:38
BugBluebut don't order 20 the first time14:38
bedboii'll place a 50$ or such order14:39
* aquatix orders 214:39
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aquatix1 euro = $1,47452    lies!14:41
aquatixit's $1.5214:41
aquatixoh well14:41
BugBluenice14:42
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aquatixstupid paypal :)14:42
aquatixthere14:43
aquatix2.09 EUR for 2 adapters14:43
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kaatis_everything is so much cheaper in teh us :(14:46
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kaatismost us based stores seem not wanting to send stuff to europe14:48
johnxyeah, they don't want money coming *in* through the borders, only going out...oh, wait14:48
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herzimichele_: BTW, I plan to set up a buildbot locally to build and upload a monkey-bubble.deb regularly from svn (but until then, I'm lazy)15:00
aquatixwhat's the difference between monkey-bubble and frozenbubble?15:02
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aquatixapart from the animals used ;)15:03
johnxfrozen bubble is written in perl IIRC15:03
johnxor at least v1 was15:04
glasstheres a c or c++ version15:04
glassthat was ported to symbian among others at least15:04
johnxI have no idea what they're up to now...15:04
johnxI haven't been keeping track15:05
XATRIXis there a port for xchat ?15:05
herziaquatix: monkey-bubble uses GTK+, librsvg and GStreamer15:06
herziwhile frozen bubble uses SDL15:07
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aquatixherzi: ah :)15:10
aquatixXATRIX: i saw something like that, yes; otherwise, there's pidgin15:10
aquatixor ssh ;)15:10
* aquatix uses ssh in xterminal to connect to his server running irssi in a screen session15:10
herziaquatix: so it's better aligned with the GNOME software stack15:10
michele_XATRIX: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/15:10
aquatixherzi: yeah, can imagine15:10
michele_aquatix: I use dtach instead of screen these days15:11
XATRIXaquatix> no..pidgin is a instant messaging service as for me15:11
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michele_much simpler and it does all I need, after all15:11
aquatixXATRIX: it has an irc plugin15:11
aquatixnot optimal, but it works15:11
aquatixmichele_: ah15:11
aquatixwell, i use screen quite a bit15:12
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aquatixit's not only running irssi15:12
XATRIXmichele_>  arrrgh.... .deb .deb .deb :)15:12
aquatixXATRIX: duh ;)15:12
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michele_XATRIX: ITs use debs, you know15:12
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hrwI use 'internet chat' application for irc on n81015:14
XATRIXyeah...that's true15:14
hrwrtcomm-beta required15:14
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michele_hrw: me too. but people seems to despise it for "missing features" that I haven't found yet15:15
GeneralAntillesUgh15:15
GeneralAntillesPidgin and rtcomm make for terrible IRC clients.15:15
herzidoes anyone have a clue where I'd have to report bugs in the "maps" application of the n810?15:15
GeneralAntillesNowhere, herzi.15:15
GeneralAntillesThey don't want them.15:15
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* johnx will start using IRC on the N800 once he can download a hardware keyboard...15:16
hrwGeneralAntilles: it depends what for you need it15:16
shackangood luck with that15:16
hrwGeneralAntilles: for normal irc use I prefer irssi on remote screen15:16
hrwGeneralAntilles: to enter and chat for a moment 'internet chat' from os2008 is enough15:17
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dookdookif anybody sees ad-n770, could someone be so kind as to tell him i'll be on later?15:17
GeneralAntillesAnything more than a moment is incredibly painful.15:17
michele_I really don't see why15:18
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michele_but I have never been an hardcore IRC user15:18
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GeneralAntillesIt just doesn't support IRC's features very well at all.15:18
GeneralAntillesand doesn't scale well.15:18
michele_which features?15:19
aquatixjohnx: get an iGo bluetooth keyboard15:19
aquatixthey're nice15:19
johnxI might at that15:19
aquatixand they are available yet15:20
aquatixiGo stopped making them15:20
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johnxWill have to see how bad shipping will be15:20
aquatixstupid...15:20
GeneralAntillesAll that features that make IRC usable for me.15:20
GeneralAntillesPartly scripting15:20
GeneralAntillesPartly the fact that it just isn't designed for big, multi-user chats.15:20
aquatixhrw: `internet chat' app is the built-in one?15:23
hrwyes15:24
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Navi_Pidgin sucks for IRC :P15:25
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michele_another thing I don't get is why people use pidgin on the IT :)15:25
felipecmichele_: protocol support?15:26
michele_felipec: with the new rtcomm beta you have exactly the same protocols supported15:26
aquatixyeah15:26
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michele_where "new" means "two months ago"15:27
jkuso, is rtcomm still beta?15:27
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felipecmichele_: not quite, there are still some issues15:27
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Navi_Jabber transports are more win than Pidgin15:27
jkueven if it's included in the firmware15:27
michele_Navi_: rtcomm uses libpurple, non transports15:27
felipecdon't call it rtcomm, it's telepathy-haze the one that allows that15:28
michele_whatever15:28
Navi_s/Pidgin/libpurple/15:28
infobotNavi_ meant: Jabber transports are more win than libpurple15:28
felipecwhich is part of rtcomm, yess, but you only need telepathy-haze15:28
johnxshipping on the igo bt keyboard is still $25 - $45...I think I'll pass for now15:29
Navi_You can get a USB keyboard for like, eight bucks at your local hardware store :D15:29
johnxexactly15:29
* aquatix installs rtcomm updater15:29
johnxthat's this weekend...I have a great hardware store(s) in mind, too15:30
johnxand the usb female-female converter I need...15:30
Navi_And it comes with a great feature: It's a full sized keyboard.  Too bad it doesn't fold up well15:30
aquatixjohnx: yeah, i had to pay a lot of shipping too, and then import fees :(15:30
aquatixjohnx: but it's worth its money15:30
aquatixfull-sized laptop keyboard15:30
Navi_When I try to fold up keyboards, they always break.15:31
johnxI'll see if I can find a decently smallish usb keyboard this weekend15:31
aquatix[well, except that it merged the numbers row into the topmost row]15:31
aquatixbluetooth has its advantages ;)15:31
aquatixyou guys have a usb host cable?15:31
johnxnot yet15:31
johnxthis weekend as well :)15:31
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aquatixjohnx: where did you get that one?15:32
* aquatix looks at dealextreme15:32
aquatixguess they'll have one too15:32
johnxI'll get a female-female converter locally if I can15:32
johnxthis weekend15:32
Navi_I bought my USB Host from Mara15:32
Navi_:315:33
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SDuensinMorning.15:58
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TuxProbehello allz.. i took the blue pill! but.. got a bit weiry :) My package manager now shows like 150 chars in the description under libs16:00
TuxProbeso, the library is libfaad2 - but i cannot download it for some reason, im using deb http://repository.maemo.org bora free - anyone else with that problem? or know how to find the .deb?16:01
johnxare you on OS2007 or OS2008?16:01
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TuxProbeos200716:03
aquatixhm, updating rtcomm takes a while16:03
johnxyou could search gronmayer.com/it to see what repositories have that lib in it16:04
TuxProbeill try it from terminal once i get an ssh up on it16:04
johnxit's being really slow tonight though :/16:04
TuxProbethen see all the data on why it fails16:04
aquatixindeed16:04
johnxthat site seems slower every time I access it16:05
TuxProbeone word; donate :-D16:05
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GeneralAntillesWho the heck runs it, anyway?16:16
johnxGron Mayer?16:16
GeneralAntillesHa16:17
zedstari just installed the emulator and everything seems to work fine...is there a meta package to install the core apps? actually i just wanted to install browser and terminal for now16:18
GeneralAntillesI've never placed that name with anybody outside of that website, though.16:18
johnxzedstar, the UI to browser is closed source. If you really need it you might be able to repack it from the tablet itself16:18
johnxor extract it from the image you download from Nokia to flash an N8x0 device16:19
Jaffawhois says it belongs to a German graphic design company, Gronmayer-Grafik16:19
johnxYou should be able to find an open source terminal you can use16:19
zedstarah thanks....so basically the emulator is pretty empty in terms of maemo apps to begin with16:20
johnxyes16:20
johnxlots of Nokia's Maemo apps are actually closed source16:20
TuxProbeim wondering, is it possible to install a graphical application from xterm?16:21
zedstarah i never even considered that16:21
johnxTuxProbe, of course.16:21
zedstarwell at least scratchbox is handy and i can just run on device16:22
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TuxProbemaemopad does not work.. i need a text editor for writing configuration files in gainroot mode16:22
herziTuxProbe: why not? you can use dpkg/apt as you can on any other debian box16:22
johnxpygtkeditor and leafpad spring to mind. Even "Notes" should work16:22
TuxProbeerh i didnt explain myself right :) i meant *start app from term16:22
johnxTuxProbe, it's definitely possible possible16:24
johnxyou'll have to export DISPLAY=:0 then try running something like osso_notes or osso_notes.launch16:25
TuxProbeahh leafpad works :)16:25
pupnik_bedboi: how do you like the neo1973?16:26
bedboipupnik_: actually i'm not using it too much16:28
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pupnik_bedboi: i had hoped it would take off16:33
bedboithe major problem is the power management16:34
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bedboibattery life is too short for daily usage16:34
johnxah, how long does it last?16:34
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hrwone useless check less16:35
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hrw2007.50 and 2007.51 firmwares are same16:36
johnxat least the power on/off fix works...16:36
hrwjohnx: thats bootloader part ;)16:36
johnxyeah...but at least they didn't fail to fix the problem for everyone :)16:37
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melmothhmmm. Anybody feels like an artist and would like to make a nice and shiny application icon ?16:45
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Lynouremelmoth: I'm no graphic artist, but what application?16:49
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melmotha voice navigation application for bike16:51
melmothhttp://sayhoo.garage.maemo.org/16:51
johnxthat's kind of ingenious :D16:52
johnxToo bad I'm a little far away from Paris to visit...16:53
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melmothi have heard there are similar project in other town in europe.16:53
melmothlike one in spain somewhere.16:54
aquatixsaw it in brussels too16:54
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michele_melmoth: Barcelona has a similar system16:54
michele_bicing.com16:55
michele_melmoth: does espeak work better than flite?16:56
melmoththe main interest with espeak is it can cope with non english language easily16:57
melmothbut you still ends up with a sixty tv sitcom robot voice ...16:57
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melmothfeels like you are terminator when biking :)16:58
michele_ahah16:58
johnx"john conner, turn right if you want to get the bike back in time!"16:58
johnxthat's a feature not a bug :D16:59
melmoththe time constraint gives a game like feeling to the ride.16:59
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herziGeneralAntilles: feel free to subscribe to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=299317:21
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giskardhttp://paste.debian.net/5017717:23
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giskardguys what is wrong with the internal sd card of my n81017:23
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johnxit's partitioned incorrectly17:24
giskardeheh i never touched it17:24
herzigiskard: the partition is larger than the device17:24
johnxNokia seems to have shipped a whole bunch with incorrect partitioning17:24
giskardit worked in the past17:24
johnxjust like playing russian roulette17:24
giskardhow i can re-partition it?17:24
giskardi have to run fdisk manually or?17:25
herzieg.17:25
herziyou could also use gparted on a notebook with sd card slot17:25
giskardis the internal one.. i don't think it i can remove it17:26
giskardin an easy way17:26
herzioh, _that_ internal one17:26
herzithe builtin one17:26
giskardi don't think it can be removed*17:26
giskardyes17:26
johnxgiskard, correct17:26
johnxit's soldered on17:26
b0unc3maybe through the usb-cable17:26
herzimaybe reflashing helps (not sure)17:26
giskardso  i have to run cfdisk/fdisk on it17:26
johnxherzi, nope17:26
giskardlet me try17:26
johnxgiskard, just fdisk it from a laptop while it's connected over usb17:27
johnxs/laptop/other linux box/g17:27
infobotjohnx meant: giskard, just fdisk it from a other linux box while it's connected over usb17:27
johnxactually, I think the tablets have sfdisk (or it's available)17:27
giskardok17:28
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herziI think in the worst case you can flash the device to boot from an inserted sd card (I think that worked in the past) and then partition the beast properly17:30
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giskardahah funny i've removed the partition, tryed to create it but there is not dos compatibility flag, i create it but i have to write it..type w17:30
giskardbut after that there is no compatibility flag set up17:30
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giskardops my fault17:31
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giskardc is not create..but toggle..n is new partition17:31
giskardbah17:31
johnxah, I was very confused for a moment :)17:31
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michele_so there's speculation about a 3G Eee PC launching on 4 march17:33
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pupnik_i find eee-talk offpissing17:33
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michele_I think it's quite overhyped, but people are figuring out17:34
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Jaffamichele_: interesting. I've seen a massive increase in the number of "mobile broadband" USB products being advertised in the UK in the last couple of weeks.17:34
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michele_Jaffa: http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=127517:34
johnxan eeePC is just the wrong size for me...17:35
johnxit's not a real laptop and it doesn't fit in a pocket...17:35
pupniknot that it's a bad product.  just that people who promote mobile x86 are not in my club17:35
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michele_I haven't yet seen a real one...17:35
* Jaffa finds his quite handy around the house for proper browsing/SSH compared with my N810 which is more mobile.17:35
GeneralAntillesI <3 pocket computers.17:36
GeneralAntillesEspecially around the house.17:36
GeneralAntillesJust whip out the N800.17:36
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Jaffamicrob's usually a bit too slow to meet my browsing habits (lots of open tabs loading in the background and then pleasant reading of them).17:37
mgedminand music control17:37
Navi_Mobile x86 are great17:37
Navi_s/are/is/17:37
infobotNavi_ meant: Mobile x86 is great17:37
Navi_You get less performance with more power use over an ARM!17:37
Navi_s/use/usage/17:37
infobotNavi_ meant: You get less performance with more power usage over an ARM!17:38
michele_me I'd just want a Samsung Q1 and ubuntu mobile :)17:38
johnxbut you can run one or two crappy closed source x86 programs!17:38
mgedminhow about a LEG?17:38
michele_well, the Q1 is quite ugly hardware wise..17:38
Navi_johnx, of course!17:38
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michele_ARM is awesome.17:40
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johnxIn the long term though I kind of think that Intel will throw enough R&D $$$ at x86 to make it viable in the embedded/handheld/cellphone market17:40
Navi_They would of had a better chance sticking with xscale for the mobile market.17:41
pupnikgod damn moneybags intel17:41
johnxNavi_, oh they'll get x86 into the embedded market one way or another...they're intel17:42
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johnxI give it 5 years or so17:42
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Navi_They _were_ in the embedded market, and they butted out.17:42
johnxand now they're headed back, dragging x86 baggage behind them17:43
johnxI think they just didn't want to have to deal with two architectures17:43
Navi_They still deal with two.17:43
johnxhmm?17:43
Navi_ia64 processors17:43
johnxheh17:44
Navi_Itaniums and crap17:44
johnxah, right...Are those still around?17:44
johnxwho buys those?17:44
Navi_Yes, they're still selling Itaniums.17:44
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Navi_Businesses buy them.  Why? Hell if I know.17:45
johnxyeah, well dropping ARM is one less architecture to worry about17:45
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Navi_They're getting into the mobile market the same way they're trying to get into the dedicated graphics market17:46
herzican we please keep arm until sparc is dead for 10 years?17:46
Navi_Really single-minded17:46
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michele_johnx: 5 years? that's way too much. I'd say 2, at most17:46
johnxmichele_, until we see x86 in phones?17:46
michele_yes17:47
johnxthe cell phone market moves slowly...but that might change17:47
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johnx2 would be pretty optimistic I think17:47
Navi_Cell phone market moves slowly as far as hardware goes, at least.17:47
johnxand software17:48
Navi_and that17:48
johnxand features17:48
Navi_And service17:48
johnxthe style changes quickly enough17:48
johnx...kinda17:48
Navi_But as far as fashion goes...17:48
Navi_Anyways, class17:49
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johnxexactly, now if Intel can just convince people that a phone with roaring fans that that belches heat is like the coolest thing ever...17:49
melmothwell, the more fan you add, the coolest the cpu will be..indeed :)17:50
zedstaranyone have a packaged lighttpd ? i couldnt locate a .deb17:50
johnxthere's nginx17:50
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michele_johnx: I think they are not yet there just because they didn't want to17:51
michele_now they probably already have prototypes17:52
johnxgetting an x86 chip into the power footprint of an ARM is no mean feat17:52
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johnxI think they'd be there yesterday if they could17:52
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pupnikonly an evil, sick, spawn of demon child could have designed the 808817:59
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aquatixpupnik: :)18:06
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godzirraHowdy folks.  I have an N800 with OS2008 installed and I'm trying to install e2fsprogs, but apt-get doesn't find it.  Was this changed recently?  I did enable the extras repository and ran apt-get update.18:18
KotCzarnyprobably another repo or redpill mode18:19
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johnxit looks like it's in the non-extras maemo repository or debfarm18:20
johnxgodzirra, gronmayer.com/it has a nice repository search18:20
godzirraThanks.18:21
GeneralAntillesredpill doesn't do anything for apt-get, KotCzarny.18:21
KotCzarnydeb http://repository.maemo.org chinook free18:22
johnxthough, be careful pulling things from that repository18:22
godzirraI already have deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ chinook free non-free18:22
godzirraDoesn't that include free and non-free?18:22
KotCzarnygodzirra: it's another repo18:23
KotCzarnyjust browse to: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/18:23
KotCzarnyand see for yourself18:23
KotCzarny:)18:23
godzirraHrm.  when I search repositories at gronmayer.com/it it just gives me the same list of repositories everytime I search for something.18:24
KotCzarnyuse google for it18:25
KotCzarny:>18:25
GeneralAntillesI wish gronmayer weren't all dynamic.18:25
GeneralAntillesBe nice to link stuff. . . .18:25
johnxsooo, you typed in e2fs in the search, and it didn't give you a list of repos that had e2fsprogs?18:25
godzirraKotCzarny: I have.  I get 3trillion links that all say "apt-get install e2fsprogs"18:25
johnxanyways, good luck, off to bed18:26
johnx'night all18:26
KotCzarnygodzirra: add repo i have pasted18:26
KotCzarnyit has e2fsprogs18:26
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godzirrajohnx: Oh.  Apparently it did, however it listed repository.maemo.org chinook free/nonfree18:26
godzirraKotCzarny: I've already -got- that18:26
godzirradeb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ chinook free non-free18:26
KotCzarnyno18:26
godzirraIs in my hildon-application-manager.list18:26
KotCzarnyit's another repo18:26
GeneralAntillesremove extras.18:26
KotCzarnydifferent.18:26
godzirraOh.18:26
godzirraduh.18:26
godzirrasorry.18:26
KotCzarnydon't remove18:27
GeneralAntilleshttp://repository.maemo.org/ != http://repository.maemo.org/extras/18:27
KotCzarnyadd another one18:27
GeneralAntilles;)18:27
KotCzarnyalso be carefull to not add http://repository.maemo.org/18:27
KotCzarnyonly: http://repository.maemo.org18:27
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KotCzarny:)18:27
GeneralAntillesEr, right, don't delete Extras. I was just saying that it's not the same repo. :P18:27
KotCzarnyanyway, anyone has idea why not-hildonized app disappears after minimizing?18:28
KotCzarnyit's working in background but there's no way to bring it back18:28
GeneralAntillesBecause it's not hildonized?18:28
godzirraawesome.  Thakns :)18:28
JaffaKotCzarny: cos it's not told the window manager about itself. You can configure its .desktop file so that Matchbox looks for the window class rather than DBus registration18:28
KotCzarnyhmm18:28
KotCzarnythat could be it18:29
JaffaIt is it :-)18:29
godzirraplaying around with getting kde on my n800.  I read something about e17, but I can't find any good data on it.18:29
KotCzarnyi hacked the app into n800 rather dpkging18:29
dragornOh hell yeah.  From the linux kernel wireless list:18:31
dragornAfter a night of coding (literally!) I'm proud to present18:31
dragornan early version of a p54common/mac80211 based driver for18:31
dragornthe N810 wireless chip.18:31
dragorn(by johannes berg, not me, should anyone be confused)18:31
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aquatixdragorn: wow18:32
dragornnot currently usable, but having a gpl driver in mainline would make me very happy18:32
aquatixyeah18:33
KotCzarnyhmm18:34
KotCzarnyhow to find window class?18:34
KotCzarnyxprop is missing18:34
KotCzarnyhum18:34
* aquatix is happy with the default nokia stack18:34
aquatixbut oss support is a want-have too18:34
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KotCzarnyoss is deprecated, go alsa18:34
KotCzarny:)18:34
godzirraHrm.  now I get permission denied on initfs_flasher.18:35
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pupnikthere's a lot of oss stuff floating around18:39
KotCzarnyalsa-oss-emulation18:40
pupnikand if anyone has time, please look into the esd-oss frontend18:40
aquatixKotCzarny: :P18:40
KotCzarny:)18:40
pupnikor alsa-oss18:40
pupniki've tried to get both to work for three nights18:40
pupnikand no luck18:40
* aquatix meant OSS18:40
aquatixopensource software18:40
pupnikbut someone else got the esd-oss working18:40
KotCzarnyaquatix: but it works18:40
KotCzarnyjust install scratchbox and sdk18:40
KotCzarny:)18:40
KotCzarnymost of the stuff compiles/works without any changes18:41
aquatixnice18:41
KotCzarnybah, if you've got big memory card you can install gcc and rest of the tools on the n800 itself18:41
KotCzarny;)18:41
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KotCzarnythough you will need to reformat the card to ext2/318:41
KotCzarny[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/xprop-X11R7.2-1.0.2] > ls -l xprop18:43
KotCzarny-rwxrwxr-x  1 sbox sbox 28112 Feb 29 11:44 xprop18:43
KotCzarny[;)18:43
* aquatix rather programs some new stuff for maemo18:45
aquatixnot sure what though18:45
KotCzarnynew media player18:45
KotCzarnyi hate all of those medialibraried :/18:45
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* KotCzarny hacked a ncurses frontend to mplayer18:46
KotCzarny;)18:46
TuxProbeHeya - i get an error when trying to sign in from my skype-ui... it says err.14 (DB_ERROR), anyone knows what that means? there's no output from console18:46
KotCzarnywhy not 'just play all files in dir', is that hard?18:46
aquatixcanola is shiny18:46
KotCzarnyshiny but still medialibraried18:47
aquatixmpd with a nice gui would be cool18:47
KotCzarnyi prefer usability than shinyness18:47
aquatixyeah18:47
mgedminmedialibrarianism is good for the casual user18:47
* aquatix uses mpd at home18:47
GeneralAntillesmmpc + mpd18:47
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aquatixi noticed a libmpd in the repository18:47
aquatixare there clients for maemo?18:47
GeneralAntillesmmpc18:48
TuxProbemplayer still 'fails' to make a proper playlist handler18:48
* mgedmin recommends mmpc18:48
KotCzarnytuxprobe: that's why i made a frontend18:48
TuxProbeups was DB_FAILURE from skype-ui18:48
KotCzarnyplayfilelist18:48
TuxProbeKotCzarny i did so too on my linuxbox :)18:48
aquatixah check18:48
KotCzarny:)18:48
aquatixmmpc looks nice18:49
michele_KotCzarny: music libraries are surely more usable than handling files and directories18:49
KotCzarnymichele: i disagree18:49
TuxProbeand i even plays 6 multiple mplayer windows all at once ;)18:49
KotCzarnyyou will have to tag EVERYTHING correctly18:49
KotCzarnyand i don't wanna go through 20000+ mp3s18:49
michele_I do18:49
KotCzarnysimple dir/filename is sufficient18:50
michele_I hate having things not tagged18:50
KotCzarnymichele: want to tag my files?18:50
KotCzarny;)18:50
michele_KotCzarny: get easytag, it can apply tags based on your directory structure18:50
michele_automatically18:50
KotCzarnythat would suck18:50
KotCzarnysometimes18:50
aquatixeasytag rocks18:50
KotCzarnybecause it's still automatic18:50
* aquatix is slowly but surely tagging his collection correctly18:50
KotCzarnyand can fail18:50
michele_KotCzarny: that because your directory structure sucks then :)18:51
aquatixso i'll have a nice dir structure *and* good tags18:51
* KotCzarny won't bend to tag-slavery!18:51
KotCzarny:)18:51
michele_KotCzarny: then automatically tag 19900 files correctly and then fix the last 10018:51
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michele_tags are the correct solution, the rest are hacks18:52
KotCzarnystill i find it easier to just navigate to dir and start playing18:52
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KotCzarnyalso my frontend has 'play all files recursive from pwd'18:52
KotCzarny:)18:52
KotCzarnyso i can just play everything in /techno/ with a one click18:52
* pupnik listens to the always entertaining Murray Rothbard18:52
michele_agh18:53
michele_techno18:53
michele_I give up18:53
KotCzarnyor /techno/minimal/18:53
* aquatix plays some Psilodump18:53
KotCzarnyor /classics/baroque/18:53
KotCzarny:)18:53
aquatixor /weirdos/britney ;)18:53
KotCzarnynah18:53
KotCzarnyi'm not so hardcore18:53
KotCzarny:)18:53
aquatixheheheh18:53
GeneralAntillesTags really aren't an issue with CDDB18:54
aquatixyeah, easytag rocks18:54
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michele_or muscibrainz, rather18:54
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KotCzarnystill, it's more hassle than it's worth18:55
michele_you are making up excuses :)18:55
KotCzarnyi'm just lazy18:55
KotCzarny(and my laziness results in me writing code ;)18:55
michele_just say "I am a nerd and I want to browse my file with a generic interface instead of one specific for music"18:56
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KotCzarnyi'm just an atypical user18:57
KotCzarny:)18:57
* aquatix wants a well-defined directory structure too18:57
aquatixbut i'm also tagging my files correctly now18:57
aquatixit helps18:58
KotCzarnybut how hard it would be to just play files in some dir?18:58
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pupnikxmms will play a dir18:58
aquatixmpd too18:58
KotCzarnyfor example you connect someones usb-hdd18:58
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GeneralAntillesDirectory structure and tagging need not be mutually exclusive.18:58
KotCzarnyyes18:58
KotCzarnybut for now most of the playes are medialibraried18:59
KotCzarnywithout ability to play all files in dir18:59
KotCzarny:)18:59
KotCzarny(with a one click of course)18:59
KotCzarny:)18:59
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GeneralAntillesMeh, navigating a directory structure is more trouble than it's worth.19:00
aquatixwhy?19:00
GeneralAntillesIf I want all of the music in a genre, I type that genre into the search box and play away.19:00
aquatixmyeah19:00
aquatixbut i play albums19:00
aquatixor artists19:01
GeneralAntillesType those in, too.19:01
michele_so you type the name of the album or the artist and play19:01
aquatixit really depends on your usage19:01
KotCzarnygeneral: my playes has a one click generation of playlists19:01
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I just shuffle the whole library all the time.19:01
KotCzarnyso you go to /music/genre1/ and click ';'19:01
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aquatixmichele_: yeah, but then you get things like `artist1' and `artist1 feat. artist2' etc19:01
KotCzarnyand that's it19:01
aquatixas seperate things19:01
aquatixshuffling my library would be madness :)19:02
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KotCzarnymine too19:02
KotCzarny:)19:02
aquatixfrom goa trance to symphonic rock to ambient stuff19:02
aquatixculture shock between two tracks ;)19:02
GeneralAntillesGenre changes are part of the spice.19:02
GeneralAntilles23000 songs here19:02
GeneralAntillesdoesn't bother me.19:02
KotCzarny:)19:02
aquatixi've got about 25000 tracks i think19:03
pupniki love random play19:03
aquatixbut it's not my prefered way of listening ;)19:03
KotCzarny:)19:03
aquatixat least not in my complete library19:03
KotCzarnybut you agree that playing recursive from specified dir would be a nice feature?19:03
KotCzarny:)19:03
pupniki think players should have quick and easy rating system, and also a 'delete' hotbutton19:04
aquatixyeah19:04
aquatixas that's what i mostly do myself19:04
GeneralAntillesHooray Quicksilver.19:04
GeneralAntillesGlobal playback control.19:04
GeneralAntillesMostly from my mouse.19:04
aquatixpupnik: `delete' from list or physically?19:04
aquatixmouse?19:04
* aquatix does everything by keyboard ;)19:04
GeneralAntillesnext/previous, play/pause, toggle shuffle.19:04
GeneralAntillesYes, mouse.19:04
GeneralAntillesMX Revolution19:04
KotCzarnystatusbar player would be nice too19:04
KotCzarny:>19:04
michele_pupnik: itunes has the check box, to not play a song19:05
GeneralAntilles~18 buttons with the shift.19:05
pupnikphys19:05
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kikkaHello.19:05
aquatixhey kikka19:05
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kikkaHow can I install Software on my n770, yeah, that's quite difficult. *g*19:05
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.gronmayer.com/it19:05
GeneralAntillesFetch the repos you want that are for your ITOS version.19:06
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kikkaAnd how can I add repos?19:06
michele_KotCzarny: no, because my music is tracks, albums and artists, not directories and files19:06
michele_dirs and files are computer things, not music19:06
KotCzarnynot true19:06
aquatixand another Modest update :)19:07
michele_very true19:07
KotCzarnyfolders are abstract grouping19:07
michele_my CDs are not in folders19:07
aquatixmichele_: soooo, what's the difference between a track and a file?19:07
GeneralAntilleskikka, it has click-to-installs for all of them.19:07
KotCzarnythat's what mp3s are for19:07
KotCzarny:>19:07
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GeneralAntillesTracks are tagged.19:07
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michele_aquatix: all the difference in the world, a track is music, a file is data19:08
KotCzarnyi can have /mood/genre/artist/album/files structure19:08
kikkaGeneralAntilles: I see, but where am I supposed to add the repos?19:08
michele_tracks could be saved in cyberspace, for all I care19:08
GeneralAntillesThere's a bunch of giant green buttons on there . . . .19:08
GeneralAntillesYou tap them.19:08
michele_KotCzarny: you are a control freak19:08
aquatixyeah, but i've been able to find my way in my collection just fine for years by using a dir tree19:08
KotCzarnysays who?19:08
KotCzarny:)19:08
aquatixjust Artist > Albums > Tracks19:08
KotCzarnywhat about unknown tracks?19:09
KotCzarny:>19:09
aquatixVA?19:09
KotCzarnyand you will end up with mish-mash19:09
fysahow is WebKit for chinook these days? ;)19:09
aquatixwhat i do is create a dir for a genre then19:09
GeneralAntillesNon-existant?19:09
GeneralAntillesKotCzarny, at the moment, I don't have any unknown tracks.19:10
KotCzarnywhat about typos?19:10
michele_you fix them19:10
GeneralAntillesProbably a few19:10
KotCzarnywhat if you can't/don't want?19:10
GeneralAntillesBut the typos would have to have come from CDDB.19:10
KotCzarnywhat if you just want to play some sound files19:11
KotCzarnylike ringtones19:11
michele_it's MY music, why couldn't I fix them?19:11
aquatixGeneralAntilles: enough typos in there ;)19:11
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KotCzarnymichele: external usb19:11
GeneralAntillesSetting up a directory structure is way more goddamn work than fixing a few hundred unknown/typoed tracks.19:11
KotCzarnyand a hdd that's not yours19:11
KotCzarny:)19:11
michele_I copy them19:11
KotCzarnyall 500gb ?19:11
KotCzarny:)19:11
aquatixGeneralAntilles: but it's also nice to be able to locate -i tracks19:11
michele_dudes, I think you are seeing more problems than there really are19:11
fysaGeneralAntilles: oh, it exists.. ;)19:11
michele_KotCzarny: no, only the tracks I care about19:12
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KotCzarnyand how do you find that?19:12
GeneralAntillesfysa, EAL?19:12
michele_I am not a pack rat, I only have music I actually listen to19:12
aquatixGeneralAntilles: creating a dirtree is easy btw19:12
aquatixbut i do both19:12
aquatixtree and tagging correctly19:12
KotCzarnywhen you want to browse someone else's files19:12
michele_I don't copy music just to say "I have 60TB of mp3s!"19:12
aquatixmichele_: me too19:12
kikkaGeneralAntilles: HUh, my n770 came back from the nokia garanty repair, and I'm not sure that it is running OS2006. How can I test it?19:12
aquatixi just happen to listen a lot ;)19:12
GeneralAntillesLook at the default theme.19:12
fysa"The Maemo/Hildon mobile platform (used in Nokia internet tablets and Ubuntu Mobile) is now an official component of the GTK+ port."19:12
GeneralAntillesIs it all gray and some obnoxiously bright color?19:12
GeneralAntillesLots of rounded edges?19:13
fysaThis means that these libraries can be used directly in WebKit instead of being maintained out of tree.19:13
kikkaGeneralAntilles: Yeah, grey.19:13
KotCzarnykikka: open terminal and type: cat /etc/issue19:13
KotCzarny:)19:13
GeneralAntilles2006, then.19:13
fysano EAL.19:13
kikkaKotCzarny: I've no Terminal.19:13
GeneralAntillesYou might want to try flashing OS2008HE.19:13
KotCzarnyah.19:14
fysahttp://www.atoker.com/webkit-maemo/README19:14
KotCzarnycontrol panel/about product then?19:14
kikkaGeneralAntilles: Yeah, maybe, but I don't risk to brick it. I just want to install Software onto it. :-/19:14
GeneralAntillesYou wont brick with a flash.19:14
GeneralAntillesIt's 99% unpossible.19:15
KotCzarny1%19:15
kikkaGeneralAntilles: Hm, okay. Any howtos?19:15
KotCzarny1% + bad luck == brick19:15
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aquatix1% + bad luck + lighting strike + tsuname = brick to keep the water outside ;)19:16
GeneralAntillesMeh, I've done dozens and dozens of flashes on a half-dozen devices over the past 2.5 years.19:16
aquatixsometimes you just have to dive19:16
GeneralAntillesNever once had a failure.19:16
KotCzarnygeneral: you're experienced user19:16
KotCzarny:)19:16
GeneralAntillesWhat does that have to do with flashing failures?19:16
GeneralAntillesYou run the flasher.19:16
GeneralAntillesThere isn't anything to it.19:16
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* KotCzarny still has to learn flashing19:17
michele_...19:17
GeneralAntillesfysa, when are we gonna get a deb here.19:17
fysathat's the real question :)19:17
GeneralAntillesI don't have scratchbox.19:17
kikkaGeneralAntilles: OK.19:17
GeneralAntilleskikka, what's your use-case for the 770, anyway?19:18
kikkaGeneralAntilles: First I'll try to find the USB-cable. Do you have any howtos for flashing?19:18
GeneralAntillesYou really have three options for the 770: OS2006, OS2007HE, and OS2008HE.19:18
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GeneralAntillesThey all have different strengths and weaknesses.19:18
GeneralAntillesWhat platform, kikka?19:18
kikkaGeneralAntilles: Skype, Browsing, RSS-Feeds, Mail, Calendar and Terminal.19:19
kikkaGeneralAntilles: Ubuntu, Linux.19:19
GeneralAntillesSkype . . .19:19
GeneralAntillesHmm19:19
GeneralAntillesWhat's the word on Skype on the HEs?19:19
KotCzarnyn800 are going cheap19:20
KotCzarny~150$19:20
KotCzarny:>19:20
kikkaWow.19:20
* KotCzarny waits for n810 to follow ;)19:21
kikkaI've bought my n770 a little time ago for 170EUR.19:21
GeneralAntillesJuly at least, KotCzarny.19:21
TuxProbei got mine for free, N800 - a 5 month 'trial' :D19:21
michele_wii KotCzarny19:21
michele_ops19:21
* KotCzarny got n800 + 8gb for 200$19:21
KotCzarny:>19:21
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GeneralAntilleskikka, http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux19:22
KotCzarnyabout week ago19:22
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kikkaGeneralAntilles: Okay, but first, does the 770 has a microphone?19:22
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GeneralAntillesSee the little hole next to the USB port that looks like you should stick something in it to reset?19:23
GeneralAntillesDon't stick anything in that. :P19:23
KotCzarny:>19:23
aquatix:)19:23
kikkayeah..19:24
aquatixthe one on the n810 is at the bottom beneath the hold?19:24
GeneralAntillesUnlikely.19:24
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KotCzarnyn800 has mic in the middle on the top rim19:24
KotCzarny(i guess)19:25
GeneralAntillesIt does.19:25
michele_yes, the N810 has it on the bottom, next to the card slot19:25
aquatixyeah19:25
GeneralAntillesIs it really?19:25
GeneralAntillesBelow the stand?19:25
michele_yes19:25
GeneralAntillesThat's just sad.19:26
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KotCzarny:>19:26
michele_the stand is cut there19:26
GeneralAntillesAha19:26
aquatixyeah19:26
aquatixwhy would that be sad?19:26
kikkaGeneralAntilles: Okay, where can I find the OS2007HE images? Or should I take OS2008HE?19:26
GeneralAntillesHave the stand cover the microphone?19:26
aquatixthere's a cut so it won't cover19:26
K-Foxis it possible to install ubuntu mobile on n80019:26
GeneralAntilleskikka I really don't have a clue how well Skype runs on any of them.19:26
KotCzarnykikka: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/Os2007On770/19:26
KotCzarny:>19:26
KotCzarnyThings that cannot be shipped to 770 users19:27
KotCzarnySkype19:27
GeneralAntilleshttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/os2008_hacker_edition.php19:27
KotCzarny;)19:27
GeneralAntilleshttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/os2007_hacker_edition.php19:27
KotCzarnyso it has to be hacked in anyway19:27
KotCzarnyHE looks like 'high explosive'19:28
KotCzarny;)19:28
* aquatix installs mpd19:28
GeneralAntillesI'm not really in love with mmpc as a front-end for on-device playback.19:29
GeneralAntillesBetter to use as a controller.19:29
aquatixi wanted to try mpd on the n81019:29
aquatixmaybe it's nice19:29
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GeneralAntillesMeh, just install mmpc and connect to a server.19:29
aquatixGeneralAntilles: like that works in my car ;)19:29
GnutoN810hi19:29
aquatixor in the train19:30
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aquatixwell, it works, but it won't give *me* music19:30
KotCzarnyhmm19:30
GeneralAntillesWell, for testing purposes. . . .19:30
KotCzarnyhas anyone noticed, #ma emo19:30
KotCzarny;)19:30
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aquatixmeh, no `update mpd db' in mmpc?19:32
aquatixooh, dinner is ready19:32
aquatixbbl :)19:32
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mgedminmmpc is a bit rough19:34
mgedminit's version 0.1 yet19:34
mgedmin(also eats battery like crazy)19:35
kikkaOkay, I don't want to install any HE as long as my 2006 rans fine. But, I really need to know, how I can install programs.19:35
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GeneralAntillesYou go select the repositories you want to add on gronmayer.19:36
GeneralAntillesThen the rest is done through Application Manager.19:36
mgedminlatest OS2006 supports .install files fine19:37
mgedminso you can use the Downloads section of maemo.org19:37
GeneralAntillesBleh19:38
GeneralAntillesDownloads section is slow and gross.19:38
GeneralAntillesAdds unnecessary steps.19:38
KotCzarnykikka, install terminal19:38
KotCzarnythen just use apt-get19:38
KotCzarny:)19:38
KotCzarnyor sshd instead of terminal19:38
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kikkaTHe Application manager don't like .install-files, it don't show them.19:40
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mgedmineh?  it's not supposed to show them19:41
mgedminwhen you click on a .install file in the web browser, it's supposed to open it in the app manager19:42
mgedminand the app manager is supposed to show you a dialog asking whether you want to add this repo and install this package19:42
kikkaNo, it downloads them, the app manager... doesn't exist, there's only a app installer...19:43
kikka...19:44
kikkaAny ideas?19:45
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Juhazoh, crap. I just blew up the charging circuitry in 77019:47
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* Juhaz wonders if there are any of those stand-alone desktop chargers for BP-5L19:47
KotCzarnyhow?19:47
Juhazovervoltage19:48
KotCzarnytoo long charging?19:48
Naviouch19:48
kikkaAaaaaaaah. It runs 2005... *crap*19:48
JuhazI've been occasionally loading it with one of those general-purpose adjustable PSU's, forgot the switch at 12V position.19:49
KotCzarnyoh19:49
KotCzarny:>19:49
KotCzarnypity19:49
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kikkaMust I flash it to update it?19:49
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KotCzarnykikka: for another os, yes19:50
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kikkakortsi: ... Okay. Where can I get the flasher?19:50
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KotCzarnyhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/os2008_hacker_edition.php19:51
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KotCzarnyhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/os2007_hacker_edition.php19:51
|tbb|anyone knows how to use ftp over tls with gftp on ubuntu?19:51
NaviI've heard that 2008HE sucks as far as stability goes19:51
kikkaI'll install 2007HE.19:52
lcuk_2oooooh - as a FYI, nokia mailed me back re: replacement stylus for 810:19:54
lcuk_2In regard to your email, I would suggest that you contact your nearest Nokia Care Pont or the Nokia store to check the availability of the styluses for your Nokia N810 Internet Tablet. They will be able to assist you further.19:54
KotCzarnyhmm19:54
lcuk_2hands up how many people think nokia store will direct me back to the website?19:54
KotCzarnyn800 ships with 2 styluses19:54
KotCzarny:>19:54
lcddso did n81019:55
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lcuk_2yes, but when you lose your first one and know a generic doesn't fit you start to get worried19:55
KotCzarnya little manual skills..19:55
KotCzarnyand it will fit19:55
KotCzarny;)19:55
lcuk_2i dont wanna even touch the spare one - i would rather leave it for a second user if i ever end up selling it :)19:56
lcuk_2so for now, the original sits in its house and my nokia sits in its cradle and a pen lid is my stylus :)19:56
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KotCzarny:)19:58
KotCzarnyget a screen protector and a bunch of generic styluses?19:59
KotCzarny:>19:59
Navi:D19:59
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mgedminalternative: sharpen your nails so you won't need a stylus ;)20:00
KotCzarny:>20:00
KotCzarnyfingers are too big though20:00
elbnails suck as a stylus20:00
KotCzarnywill obscure the screen20:00
elbthough I use them often20:00
KotCzarnythere are guitar tools20:00
elbyeah, you don't ever know exactly where you're "clicking"20:00
KotCzarnythat you wear on your fingers20:01
KotCzarnypointed and convenient20:01
KotCzarnysometimes20:01
elblast time I flew, there was a stewardess with a sweet ring that was a bottle opener deal20:01
elbshe used it to open pop cans and stuff20:02
kikka... Okay, I will flash it with 2006.20:02
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lcuk_2can you get clear styluses?20:03
KotCzarnyprobably any plastic thing will do20:04
lcuk_2yer, but i mean a standard stylus, not just using the barrel of a pen20:05
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KotCzarnywow, setting WM_CLASS was enough to show the app in task list20:06
KotCzarny:>20:06
KotCzarnylcuk_2: why not?20:06
KotCzarny:)20:06
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lcuk_2http://www.colino.net/wordpress-1.5/archives/2008/01/17/sdl-applications-and-maemos-task-navigator/20:09
* lcuk_2 came across this recently20:09
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KotCzarnywow20:10
* KotCzarny did it hard way20:11
KotCzarny:)20:11
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KotCzarnydoesn't matter i guess20:14
KotCzarnyerm. wrong chan20:14
KotCzarny:>20:14
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KotCzarnynah20:17
KotCzarnythat would work only for sdl apps20:18
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KotCzarnyfor X11 i have to  XSetClassHint(dpy, win, my_XAllocClassHint);20:18
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KotCzarny:>20:18
kikkaHm, there are cool apps for maemo. even for 06.20:18
KotCzarnykikka: yes20:18
KotCzarnyoss roolez20:18
KotCzarny:>20:18
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b0r0lassaludos desde colombia20:29
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lopzhola b0r0las20:54
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b0r0laslopz, hola, que bueno ver gente ke habla español por aqui... ya me siento menos solo20:55
lopzhaha, lo mismo digo, y que cacharro tienes b0r0las ?20:55
b0r0lasme llega la otra semana un n800...20:56
lopzahh pues yo me habría comprado la n810 jeje20:56
b0r0laslopz, cual tienes tu?20:57
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lopzb0r0las, n80020:59
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b0r0lasy lo tienes arrancando desde memoria sd o desde la propia del aparato?20:59
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lopzb0r0las, desde la flash interna21:37
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MangoFusionanyone know i could expect the internal flash in my n800 to last?21:41
MangoFusion*how long21:41
KotCzarnylong21:41
sxpertabout 10 years21:42
MangoFusionas long as my piece of string? ;)21:43
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b0r0laslopz, porke por la red e visto tutoriales para ponerlo a arrancar desde una memoria sd22:29
felipecwhat about maemo-es?22:30
felipecpodría funcionar, no?22:30
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lopzfelipec, yeah, you created channel22:35
lopzb0r0las, pues hay muchos, pero no lo sé, no he probado22:35
felipeclopz: did I?22:35
pupniktry the new duke nukem shareware version... runs very fast on Nokia 77022:36
GeneralAntillesControls aren't quite as polished as Quake.22:38
Naviluls22:39
NaviMaemo Mapper just crashes when I try to use my old DB22:39
GeneralAntillesIt's corrupt. :P22:40
NaviI figured as much22:41
Navibut it's still funny22:41
KotCzarnymaemo mapper roolez!22:43
NaviNo, U RULEZ22:43
GeneralAntillesHooray for the letter u!22:43
KotCzarnybut checking all zoom levels would download few TB22:44
KotCzarny:>22:44
KotCzarnyand POI isn't working as expected22:44
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KotCzarnyand it should populate some positions depending on current x/y22:44
pupnik"never give in"22:46
pupnik"be obsessed"  - 808 State22:46
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GeneralAntillesI want my OTG dongles. :<23:03
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Guest46326sik23:05
Guest46326am23:05
Guest46326göt23:05
Guest46326yarraaaaaakkkk23:05
Tama^2from a reply in meamo bugzilla :23:07
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Tama^2dmesg output with 16Gb A-data sdhc card in N800 external slot OS200723:08
Tama^2Larger than 8GB cards are not supported, so it's to be expected that23:08
Tama^2the the card doesn't get recognized.23:08
Tama^2>.<23:08
KotCzarnyo.o23:08
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KotCzarnybut os2008 handles them?23:08
NaviTry breaking the card into two partitions23:08
Tama^2yes it handles them23:08
KotCzarnywell, then upgrade :>23:08
NaviWorks for some23:08
Tama^2I think that statement is of the managerial kind23:09
GeneralAntillesLink, Tama^2?23:09
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Tama^2https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=263723:09
KotCzarnyis there any advantages of having os2007 over os2008?23:09
KotCzarny*are23:09
GeneralAntillesNot really, KotCzarny.23:09
GeneralAntillesThey're all incredibly subjective.23:10
GeneralAntillesI want to kill all the idiots that don't know how to use the bug submission template.23:10
GeneralAntillesIf the heading isn't relevant FREAKING DELETE IT!23:10
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GeneralAntillesThe reproducibility suggestions are SUGGESTIONS! DELETE IT AFTER YOU CHOOSE ONE!23:10
GeneralAntillesGawd23:10
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NaviLol23:11
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GeneralAntillesSupposedly they were gonna deploy a much better for for people without edit/confirmbugs.23:12
GeneralAntillesStill hasn't happened23:12
GeneralAntillesand I still have to look at really badly submitted bug reports.23:12
Navi\o/23:13
hrwNavi: splitting card to partitions is useless suggestion23:13
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GeneralAntilles16GB cards work fine, anyway.23:14
Naviseyz u23:14
Tama^2except they are power hungry23:15
Tama^2:P23:15
hrwGeneralAntilles: with 2.6.21 or 2.6.16/18 kernel?23:15
GeneralAntillesShould be fine with all the SDHC kernels.23:15
GeneralAntillesI haven't done any testing, though.23:15
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KotCzarnyjffs2_sum_write_sumnode: Not enough space for summary23:17
KotCzarnyhmm23:17
KotCzarnyis it bad?23:17
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KotCzarnyoff-topic: http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/01/17/funny-pictures-kitteh-deactivated/23:18
KotCzarny:>23:18
KotCzarnyhmm23:22
KotCzarnyquestion: can n800 export both cards via usb?23:23
KotCzarnyie. as separate luns ?23:23
Tama^2yes23:23
KotCzarnyhow?23:23
Tama^2it just does it23:25
GeneralAntillesPlug it in.23:25
KotCzarnyi did23:25
Tama^2yes, ehat GA says ;)23:25
KotCzarnyonly one device showed up23:25
GeneralAntillesThen the other is in use.23:25
Tama^2the other was in use, most likely23:25
KotCzarnyhmm23:25
KotCzarnymount doesn't show anything23:25
KotCzarny(on n800)23:25
GeneralAntillesSwap can occasionally be mildly problematic for that.23:25
KotCzarnyswap is turned off23:26
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I just have a couple of AppleScript droplets on my desktop to send files over scp.23:26
KotCzarnyyes, i use sshfs for that23:26
KotCzarnybut i was curious just in case23:26
shackanturn it off?23:26
shackan(I mean the device)23:26
KotCzarnylet's see23:27
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KotCzarnybtw. one improvement would be noatime for / and mmc cards23:27
KotCzarnyalso quiet for vfat23:27
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KotCzarny(i added it by hand, but would be great for flash life?)23:28
GeneralAntillesFlash cards these days handle their own life management pretty well.23:29
Tama^2I thought the cards were already mounted noatime23:29
KotCzarnynope23:29
KotCzarnyat least not on mine freshly flashed os200823:29
Tama^2I will check that when I go back to OS200823:29
Tama^2if I go back23:29
Tama^2...23:29
KotCzarnyyou have 2009?23:29
KotCzarnyo.O23:30
Tama^2lol23:30
Tama^2no flashed 200723:30
Tama^2which is fugly23:30
GeneralAntillesHehe23:30
KotCzarny:)23:30
KotCzarnywhy?23:30
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GeneralAntillesNokia finally managed to put together a halfway decent themeset with OS2008.23:30
Tama^2but my sd cards do not drain the battery as faast as with os200823:30
KotCzarnyi mean, why you have reflashed 2k723:30
GeneralAntillesTama^2, are you sure you're not just leaving your porn downloading script running? :P23:31
KotCzarnyplankton theme is nice23:31
Tama^2because I cannot use my tables as a music player if my battery discharges in 24 hours when idle23:31
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Tama^2lolz GA23:31
KotCzarnyalso, hibernate would be great23:31
KotCzarny:>23:31
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KotCzarnybut i guess it's a lot more coding23:31
GeneralAntillesMeh, not really.23:31
GeneralAntillesAside from the fact that the watchdogs would need major reworking23:32
KotCzarnyit would go to sleep/wake up faster23:32
GeneralAntillesan idling tablet really doesn't use that much more power than a slept tablet.23:32
GeneralAntillesIt sleeps/wakes instantly now, KotCzarny.23:32
GeneralAntillesThe wonders of ARM.23:32
KotCzarnyi mean power-off sleep23:33
elbit  can already do that23:33
elband does, if you power it off while it's plugged into the wall23:33
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KotCzarnyhum23:33
elbor does something very similar, anyway23:33
KotCzarnywhen i turn it off it goes all the way through shutdown23:33
GeneralAntillesThe watchdog will step in and reset it if you sleep it.23:33
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derfSomeone did a script to get suspend working.23:34
derfIt woke up every 60 seconds and frobbed the watchdogs.23:35
KotCzarny:)23:35
KotCzarnyhehe23:35
elbso what does it do when it's plugged into power, and you hold the power button?23:36
elbit's not the same as a regular power off23:36
elbbut it sort of boots when you power it on23:36
elb(the boot sequence is much more rapid, but it still splashes up the nokia logo, etc.)23:37
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* KotCzarny replaced nokia-hands logo23:37
KotCzarnyand i will replace initrd one too23:37
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KotCzarnywhen i learn flashing :>23:37
elbI guess some people care about that23:37
KotCzarnyi didn't liked that hands23:37
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/err.zip23:38
KotCzarnyi put a cat there23:38
KotCzarny:>23:38
GeneralAntilles:D23:38
GeneralAntillesIt's too bad it takes so long to draw the second image.23:38
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KotCzarnyyes23:39
pupnikhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=149610&postcount=48   GeneralAntilles what do you think?23:39
KotCzarnynice logo23:39
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KotCzarnybut giving nokia a finger because they made sdk free?23:39
KotCzarny;)23:39
Tama^2another thing23:39
Tama^2OS2008 disables (?) touchscreen pressure detection23:40
GeneralAntillesInteresting, but I think my thumb is too sticky to use it track-pad like on the screen.23:40
GeneralAntillesDon't think so, Tama^2, I think it's just really broken.23:40
XATRIXhi all :) i'm here again :)23:40
Tama^2my N800 does not detect touchscreen pressure when in OS200823:40
Tama^2:(23:40
GeneralAntillespupnik, I'd say, clone Quake. Quake is PERFECT on the N800.23:40
KotCzarnyhum23:41
KotCzarnygimp-n800!23:41
KotCzarny;)23:41
pupniki disagree, i don't like playing with a stylus23:41
GeneralAntillesReally?23:41
pupnikthough it's pretty darn good23:41
pupniki'd just rather have some smart thumb movement in a small region on the right side23:41
GeneralAntillesStylus works really well. I don't think I could slide a thumb or finger around as easily.23:42
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pupnikyeah pipeline did a great job fixing the stylus responsiveness23:42
Andy80hi23:42
KotCzarnycamera for remote-controll23:43
KotCzarnyas in ps3!23:43
KotCzarny;)23:43
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Andy80I've some problem with my N810 repositories... I've all enables in Application Manager, but if (from terminal) I try to install (for example) python2.5-gpsbt it says that package cannot be verified and even if I press "y" it aborts... how can I check what happened?23:43
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KotCzarnyhttp://www.techamok.com/?pid=414023:45
KotCzarnyhere's the link for camera tracking23:45
KotCzarny:>23:45
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