| MangoFusion | emphasis on the word hope | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| MangoFusion | not so much emphasis on the word reality | 00:00 |
| MangoFusion | ;) | 00:00 |
| MangoFusion | (in any case merely speculation) | 00:00 |
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| ssvb | uff, finally done: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/cx3110x-devel/2008-February/000019.html | 00:07 |
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| ssvb | is there still anybody using Nokia 770 and interested in faster wifi? | 00:08 |
| hrw | only on 770? | 00:08 |
| Proteous | I didn't know it was slow | 00:09 |
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| ssvb | hrw: for now, yes | 00:10 |
| ssvb | Proteous: how fast is it for you? | 00:10 |
| hrw | ssvb: does it affect 802.11g speed? | 00:10 |
| Proteous | fast enough that I never wondered how fast it is | 00:10 |
| Proteous | heh | 00:10 |
| * hrw plans to move to 802.11g soon | 00:10 | |
| Proteous | I only have the stock amount of storage, which means, a very small amount, so I consume most of my media via streaming | 00:11 |
| Proteous | and that seems to work fine for me | 00:11 |
| Proteous | as far as speed wise | 00:11 |
| hrw | ssvb: my 770 spend most time powered off now | 00:12 |
| ssvb | hrw: my 770 is always with me (mostly used as a book reader) and N800 is used just as a device for testing various experiments :) | 00:13 |
| ssvb | hrw: it is nice to have 128MB of RAM, useful for natively compiling code | 00:14 |
| hrw | ssvb: btw - thats speedup for cx3110 user compilable parts or some kind of new driver? | 00:14 |
| ssvb | hrw: it is just slightly better efficiency of communication omap<->wlan chip over spi bus | 00:16 |
| hrw | thx | 00:16 |
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| ssvb | hrw: this open source part is a glue between a binary driver running on the device and a binary firmware running on wlan chip | 00:16 |
| ssvb | hrw: we don't have much control here | 00:17 |
| hrw | I know | 00:17 |
| elb | wow, a 50%+ improvement in goodput is pretty significant | 00:17 |
| hrw | ssvb: someone tested does it gives such speedup also on 802.11g net? | 00:17 |
| hrw | iirc cx3110 is b/g cip | 00:18 |
| hrw | chip | 00:18 |
| ssvb | hrw: having 1.3 megabytes per second is already 802.11g speed that is unreachable for 802.11b afaik, so I guess it's g | 00:19 |
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| elb | yes, that's more than twice as fast as 802.11b can accomplish | 00:19 |
| ssvb | hrw: the best thing about it is that it is faster than USB 1.x :) | 00:20 |
| elb | (5.5Mbps is the best you can get out of b, which is somewhere around 400kB/sec TCP transfer) | 00:20 |
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| Proteous | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#Summary | 00:25 |
| elb | hah that table is so typically wikipedia | 00:28 |
| elb | what a pile of junk | 00:28 |
| Proteous | how so? | 00:29 |
| jott | elb: make it better ;) | 00:29 |
| elb | jott: I don't waste my time with wikipedia | 00:29 |
| Proteous | it seems pretty close to what I get | 00:29 |
| elb | Proteous: for example, their "throughput" and "data rate (max)" entries are obviously measuring two different things, but are not marked as such | 00:29 |
| * jott reboots again to test his kernel patch | 00:30 | |
| Proteous | I don't have any trouble understanding the chart... | 00:30 |
| elb | then either you don't understand what's wrong with it, or you're making assumptions that are not stated | 00:31 |
| elb | look at throughput; what kind of throughput are they talking about? | 00:31 |
| elb | and why is it clearly a simplex value, whereas max data rate is duplex? | 00:31 |
| jott | i guess typ = typical and max = specified maximum | 00:32 |
| elb | yes, if you *already know* the properties of 802.11, it will affirm what you already know; but if you *don't* know them, it's not useful | 00:32 |
| elb | jott: see, you were led to an incorrect conclusion by the table | 00:32 |
| jott | :) | 00:32 |
| elb | or rather, yes, that is correct, but it is *not* the case that you can typically only get less than half the stated data rate | 00:33 |
| Proteous | even to the layman, the Max number is what you are going to see on the box, the Typ number is the transfer speed that you will probably see in your OS when you are moving a file | 00:33 |
| elb | Proteous: but as an encyclopedia entry, it's junk | 00:33 |
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| Proteous | I find it usefull | 00:34 |
| elb | I see | 00:34 |
| elb | well, you might find it more useful to know that on any low-latency shared-access broadcast medium like Ethernet, TCP is only going to get 70-80% maximum bitrate in goodput | 00:35 |
| elb | then you can throw that entire piece of junk table away | 00:35 |
| elb | and as a bonus, you can expand it to dozens of network technologies that aren't 802.11 :-P | 00:35 |
| ^Jsn^ | Hey has anyone set up a DUN connection between the n810 and a sony ericsson w810i? | 00:36 |
| Proteous | sure, you can find that info in the TCP page | 00:36 |
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| ^Jsn^ | Proteous: are you talking to me? | 00:37 |
| Proteous | heh, no | 00:37 |
| Proteous | the maemo wiki says that the w800i works | 00:38 |
| Navi | Anyone know how to remove a song/clear the playlist in mmpc? | 00:39 |
| Proteous | reflash? | 00:39 |
| Navi | >_> | 00:39 |
| ^Jsn^ | where can i find the maemo wiki? | 00:40 |
| elb | maemo.org | 00:40 |
| Proteous | http:maemo.org/community/wiki/BluetoothDUN/ | 00:40 |
| Proteous | er | 00:41 |
| Proteous | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/BluetoothDUN/ | 00:41 |
| Proteous | I remember it being somewhat annoyning to try to find the bluetooth dun page using the wiki search | 00:41 |
| Navi | nevermind, got it | 00:42 |
| ^Jsn^ | thanks | 00:43 |
| hrw | ssvb: for future: use iperf for testing speed | 00:45 |
| hrw | on n810 here I have 3.14 Mbit/s | 00:46 |
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| elb | wget is a fine estimator for relative bandwidth at 802.11 speeds | 00:47 |
| hrw | iperf do not need to use any file to fetch ;D | 00:48 |
| Navi | Gah | 00:48 |
| ^Jsn^ | Proteous: Thanks alot for that link! Do you know of a tutorial on setting up a dun via bluetooth? | 00:48 |
| Navi | I can't remove the battery >_> | 00:48 |
| Navi | How do you remove it? | 00:48 |
| hrw | but it also not present in maemo repos (which is normal for lot of soft) | 00:48 |
| hrw | Navi: which tablet? | 00:48 |
| Navi | N800 | 00:48 |
| Navi | I've been clawing at the battery, haven't been able to get it out | 00:48 |
| Proteous | I would suggest dropping the claw and just using your fingers | 00:49 |
| Navi | har har | 00:49 |
| ssvb | hrw: thanks, I'll try it now | 00:49 |
| hrw | Navi: no idea then - only 770 and n810 here | 00:49 |
| Navi | Heh | 00:49 |
| elb | it falls directly out of the 810 | 00:49 |
| elb | in fact, much more easily than I would wish | 00:49 |
| Navi | This is harder than I would wish >_> | 00:50 |
| lcuk_3 | elb, you also forgot to mention the tin foil battery cover | 00:51 |
| elb | I have no such cover | 00:52 |
| Navi | Heh | 00:52 |
| elb | unless you mean the regular metal cover, which seems fine to me | 00:52 |
| Navi | I hit it against my hand a few times and it popped out | 00:52 |
| lcuk_3 | on my 810 it seems really flimsy and rattles when its in | 00:53 |
| elb | really? | 00:53 |
| elb | I can move the cover around, but it doesn't rattle | 00:53 |
| elb | the battery rattles :-P | 00:53 |
| elb | in fact, I would say the n810 casing is one o fthe higher quality electronics casings I own | 00:54 |
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| benno2 | hi, question, does voice based gps navigation for n800 + bluetooth gps receiver work ? assuming one buys the commercial navigation from nokia | 00:55 |
| lcuk_3 | wow, i dont think so - im used to nokias being a really nice fit, but in a blindfold test i doubt i would get that it was nokia | 00:55 |
| benno2 | is all of europe covered ? | 00:55 |
| ^Jsn^ | does anyone know if it is possible to write an email in the n810 and when u press send, it uses a bluetooth Dial up networking profile to send the email threw your phone? | 00:56 |
| elb | lcuk_3: interesting | 00:56 |
| elb | lcuk_3: I wonder if your cover is damaged somehow | 00:56 |
| lcuk_3 | doesnt appear to be, it just doesnt feel "right" | 00:57 |
| elb | it's certainly a much better plan than my wife's nokia phone | 00:57 |
| elb | which is a piece of JUNK | 00:57 |
| lcuk_3 | maybe a diff manufacturing run/factory | 00:57 |
| elb | mine snaps in pretty tight | 00:57 |
| ssvb | hrw: iperf shows 8.46 Mbits/sec | 00:57 |
| elb | it will wiggle a little with my fingers, but the tension of the latching bar keeps it pretty tight | 00:57 |
| Proteous | ^Jsn^: if you can get online through a DUN with your phone then that should work | 00:57 |
| lcuk_3 | top part also creaks if i press in the middle of it | 00:57 |
| Proteous | ^Jsn^: as far as setting up DUN, I only have a 770, so my experience might not be helpfull | 00:58 |
| lcuk_3 | infact, doing a shake test by holding the edges (the most dangerous thing i have tried) it sounds like a tamborene | 00:58 |
| Proteous | could be worse, could sound like a tuba | 00:58 |
| elb | interesting | 00:58 |
| elb | mine rattles when the battery is in, but is nearly silent otherwise | 00:59 |
| ^Jsn^ | yeah but I was wondering if there was an option in the mail program on the n810 to send threw a dun connection | 00:59 |
| lcuk_3 | the slider is good and secure though | 00:59 |
| lcuk_3 | lol @ tuba | 00:59 |
| elb | I should say, battery and stylus -- the stylus rattles a bit, too | 00:59 |
| hrw | ^Jsn^: apps should not care about type of net connection | 00:59 |
| jku | ^Jsn^, dun is just another connection, right? apps don't care about that | 00:59 |
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| Proteous | ^Jsn^: when you set up a DUN connection it shows up in the list that appears when you look for a new connection | 01:00 |
| Proteous | ^Jsn^: so you can't connect to with DUN and wifi at the same time | 01:00 |
| ^Jsn^ | ok. I haven't tried it yet | 01:00 |
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| Proteous | ^Jsn^: er, "connect with DUN" | 01:00 |
| lcuk_3 | lol elb, my stylus is rock solid - though i dont like the fact its not a round stylus, i hate having to orient it before slipping it in | 01:01 |
| ^Jsn^ | thanks | 01:01 |
| elb | lcuk_3: yeah, that was nice about the palm stylus on my IIIx -- pretty much no matter how you put it in, it spun itself into the right position and lockedi nto place | 01:01 |
| ^Jsn^ | does anyone know if there is a video chatting app that works with the n810? Every website that i've seen says that skype doesn't support video chat yet | 01:01 |
| Stskeeps | afaik google talk is included which runs with it? :P | 01:02 |
| Proteous | ^Jsn^: basicly, turn on bluetooth on your phone, make sure you phone is set to be discoverable/visable, then on your nokia Goto 'Menu → Tools → Control Panel → Bluetooth → Devices → New' and see if your phone shows up | 01:02 |
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| ^Jsn^ | ok | 01:03 |
| ^Jsn^ | Stskeeps: Have u tried using the webcam with google talk? | 01:03 |
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| jeff1f | ^Jsn^ the built in messaging app should work | 01:07 |
| ssvb | hrw: do you know any useful tool for stress testing network to verify that it works properly under high load? | 01:07 |
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| derf | ssvb: bittorrent | 01:09 |
| Proteous | lol | 01:09 |
| hrw | ssvb: nothing comes to mind | 01:09 |
| jott | hping? | 01:10 |
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| hrw | hm. my AP (wrt54gs) give 3.20-3.50Mbps ;( | 01:10 |
| hrw | 4.43 max | 01:11 |
| jku | ssvb, hammerhead | 01:12 |
| jku | it's for testing webservers, but I guess should work... | 01:13 |
| jku | s/should/could/ | 01:13 |
| infobot | jku meant: it's for testing webservers, but I guess could work... | 01:13 |
| ssvb | thanks to everyone, I'l check these tools | 01:14 |
| ssvb | hrw: 4.36 Mbits/sec with N800 here too | 01:18 |
| hrw | time to boot bcm4306 and test | 01:19 |
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| ^Jsn^ | does anyone know of any good proxy websites for bypassing local blocked websites? | 01:21 |
| ssvb | hrw: it does not depend on access point/router, the limitation is in N800/N810 wlan driver | 01:21 |
| hrw | I want to check how fast it goes with other wifi | 01:23 |
| hrw | 19.8 Mbps with other card | 01:24 |
| ssvb | hrw: you can try your Nokia 770 with a patched wlan driver ;) | 01:25 |
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| hrw | ssvb: first would have to charge it ;D | 01:26 |
| hrw | and I do not have armv5te iperf binary handy | 01:27 |
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| Veggen | what's the status of java on n8x0 nowadays? | 01:33 |
| Veggen | was wondering about trying to get the java citrix client to work...? | 01:33 |
| jott | Veggen: i guess it might be worth a try using the unstable jalimo packages | 01:34 |
| Veggen | mm, will try. | 01:35 |
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| Veggen | citrix is part of our work vpn solution. would be sort of nice, although I don't imagine it'll be good enough to be tempting as a work solution ;) just have to see if it's doable, though. | 01:36 |
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| benno2 | question: does the downloadable maps of the n800 os2008 map appllication contain one way street informations ? | 01:58 |
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| benno2 | answering to my own question I just checked the free maps of the maps app on the n800 and I see the one way signs | 02:01 |
| benno2 | but does the free app have routing capabilities ? | 02:01 |
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| onion | benno2: you need to pay to get routing | 02:04 |
| benno2 | onion: yes I've read about it. basically an n800 + gps receiver can run the same software as the n810 ? | 02:05 |
| onion | benno2: should do it yes | 02:05 |
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| benno2 | onion: I will probably buy it. 30E pro year isn't that much as long as the maps are of good quality and the system works well. I've seen the tabletpc youtube video and it seems to work fine. | 02:06 |
| benno2 | or is there any free app that can route ? | 02:06 |
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| Tama^2 | meamo mapper can route | 02:07 |
| Tama^2 | maps in Maps are not veeery reliable | 02:08 |
| benno2 | but what are the drawbacks ? | 02:08 |
| benno2 | of maemo mapper | 02:08 |
| benno2 | I mean what is the advantage of wayfinder vs maemo mapper ? | 02:08 |
| Tama^2 | drawbacks: clumsy UI | 02:08 |
| Tama^2 | and routes have to be downloaded | 02:09 |
| benno2 | does maemo mapper offer voice guided navigation ? | 02:09 |
| Tama^2 | yes it does | 02:09 |
| benno2 | in what sense routes have to be downloaded ? does it use google maps to compute routes ? | 02:09 |
| onion | Tama^2: google does the routing | 02:10 |
| Tama^2 | I know | 02:10 |
| Tama^2 | but you have to be online | 02:10 |
| Tama^2 | when you plan the route | 02:10 |
| benno2 | so basically without a cellular internet connection you can forget to plan routes just in time. am I right ? | 02:10 |
| onion | mapper will have routing some day | 02:10 |
| benno2 | ok now I see the advantage of using wayfinder | 02:10 |
| Tama^2 | or a free wifi | 02:10 |
| Tama^2 | wayfinder will route you, but when you are outide the main roads it's probably going to route you into a lake | 02:11 |
| Tama^2 | xD | 02:11 |
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| Tama^2 | I checked two places I knew on wayfinder maps: | 02:11 |
| Tama^2 | 1) a 50 km bay was erased and was indicated as land | 02:12 |
| Tama^2 | 2) directions to go somewhere took me through a lake | 02:13 |
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| pupnik | mmm olives | 02:20 |
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| jeff1f | Every mapping company seems to have some problems | 02:26 |
| jeff1f | They should give the software out for free if you're willing to record the roads! | 02:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pfft | 02:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like the recordings from some random jerkoff are gonna be trustworthy. | 02:29 |
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| jgombos | Anyone there.. out of 261 users? | 03:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shh. . . . | 03:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | We're sleeping. | 03:25 |
| jgombos | nice.. I wasn't sure I got in here alright | 03:25 |
| jgombos | Haven't been in IRC for 10 yrs | 03:25 |
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| jgombos | R U a bot? I should have known... | 03:26 |
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| briand | i'm a bot. | 03:28 |
| briand | but then, I'm not "there", I'm "here", so... | 03:28 |
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| ^Jsn^ | whats up | 03:37 |
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| ^Jsn^ | does anyone have any favorite "must have" apps on their n8x0? | 03:40 |
| jgombos | i just got the thing a week or so ago | 03:41 |
| jgombos | So I haven't used it for anything but web so far.. still using a Palm for everything | 03:41 |
| briand | i just got mine yesterday. lovin' it | 03:41 |
| ^Jsn^ | yeah mine's in the mail. Can't believe it takes Fedex 6 days to get it from Ca to FL! | 03:41 |
| jgombos | what version | 03:42 |
| briand | i find it just short of incredible that my mythtv box shows up in the 'shared media' folders in the file manager.. amazing. I guess I need to get to work on setting up audio/video streaming from that box, now... | 03:42 |
| ^Jsn^ | Tryin to get everything together so i'll be ready when it gets here | 03:42 |
| elb | ^Jsn^: FBReader and gpe-calendar | 03:42 |
| ^Jsn^ | n810 | 03:42 |
| Proteous | going through that panama canal takes a while | 03:42 |
| jgombos | lol | 03:42 |
| * briand has an n800 | 03:42 | |
| ^Jsn^ | lol | 03:42 |
| ^Jsn^ | briand: mythtv is like slingbox right? | 03:43 |
| Proteous | no | 03:43 |
| briand | oh, no... | 03:43 |
| Proteous | more like a tivo | 03:43 |
| briand | it's like a Tivo after a couple years of steroids. | 03:43 |
| Proteous | on steroids | 03:43 |
| Proteous | lol | 03:43 |
| briand | jinx! | 03:43 |
| Proteous | doh | 03:43 |
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| jgombos | y did you choose the n810? | 03:44 |
| Proteous | well, it's only like a tivo if you have 1 or more tuner cards in it | 03:44 |
| briand | ^Jsn^: imagine a build-your-own tivo like device, that runs on linux... | 03:44 |
| jgombos | but it's better than tivo.. commercials can be cut out automatically | 03:44 |
| briand | Proteous: do you have a mythtv box as well? | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lot of damn FL tablet users. | 03:44 |
| * briand is in the capital of FL | 03:44 | |
| * GeneralAntilles is too. | 03:45 | |
| * GeneralAntilles hides. | 03:45 | |
| elb | briand: my mythtv box shows up, but streaming doesn't work | 03:45 |
| briand | elb: exactly. i think something needs to be set up on the myth box. the media lists show up because of uPnP | 03:45 |
| jgombos | mythtv is a pain in the ass to setup | 03:45 |
| elb | yeah, I dunno | 03:45 |
| jgombos | I gave up on it when I tried like 3 yrs ago | 03:45 |
| Proteous | no, but I do have a media server though, it is running on windows and uses tversity to transcode and stream to my 770 and I use samba to mount it on my apple TV to watch/listen to media | 03:45 |
| elb | I poked at it briefly and decided life isn't long enough | 03:45 |
| elb | jgombos: it's not too bad if all you want to do is use it as a tivo-type replacement | 03:46 |
| ^Jsn^ | I chose the 810 for the keyboard | 03:46 |
| elb | jgombos: if you want to use all its other features and plugins ... it's a right punk | 03:46 |
| Proteous | and bittorent with RSS feed downloads instead of a TV tuner :P | 03:46 |
| ^Jsn^ | Defnintely need the keyboard | 03:46 |
| ^Jsn^ | definitely | 03:46 |
| jgombos | ha, that's why i didn't choose the n810 | 03:46 |
| jgombos | can't stand keyboards on these things | 03:46 |
| jgombos | grafitti is quicker | 03:46 |
| * ^Jsn^ is in navarre | 03:47 | |
| Proteous | I wish my 770 had a keyboard, I use ssh/irssi/mutt a lot | 03:47 |
| elb | the n810 is the best of keyboard and no keyboard worlds -- folded up, it's still smaller than the n800 ;-) | 03:47 |
| elb | of course, that's price delta aside | 03:47 |
| jgombos | wow! mutt is ported to maemo? nice! | 03:47 |
| Proteous | no | 03:47 |
| Proteous | mutt is running on a remote box that I ssh into | 03:47 |
| Proteous | although I"m sure you could easily compile mutt for the nokia | 03:48 |
| jgombos | ah | 03:48 |
| ^Jsn^ | what is mutt? | 03:48 |
| jgombos | MUA | 03:48 |
| Proteous | the tough part would be setting up everything else so you could use mutt | 03:48 |
| Proteous | lol | 03:48 |
| elb | yeah, I would foresee no problems with mutt | 03:48 |
| elb | except that osso-xterm is complete butt ;-) | 03:48 |
| Proteous | heh | 03:48 |
| jgombos | yeah, i'm scared.. not gonna try mutt | 03:48 |
| ^Jsn^ | what is mutt? | 03:49 |
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| jgombos | mail user agent | 03:49 |
| Proteous | a terminal based mail client | 03:49 |
| jgombos | a mail client.. pure text | 03:49 |
| ^Jsn^ | whats wrong with the included mail client? | 03:49 |
| jgombos | have no idea.. haven't tried it | 03:49 |
| Proteous | my instance of mutt is running on a remote server | 03:49 |
| elb | if you'd ever used mutt, you would instead be asking "how do people use any of those other mail clients?" ;-) | 03:50 |
| jgombos | does the bundled one support crypto? | 03:50 |
| Proteous | I can get at it anywhere I can get a ssh connection, so it is convienent | 03:50 |
| ^Jsn^ | Proteous: what did you mean by "and bittorent with RSS feed downloads instead of a TV tuner" | 03:50 |
| chronographer | Hi all, I am thinking of purchasing a nokia tablet, I wonder if anyone can share information on surveying software for maemo, software for things like coordinate geometry, resections, simple traverse calculations and least squares adjustment??? | 03:50 |
| briand | hmm. myth is having no problem streaming the (very few) files in my "videos" directory there... | 03:50 |
| jgombos | well, I don't think I would want mutt on a portable device | 03:50 |
| jgombos | fat fingering keys for every action can't be efficient | 03:51 |
| Proteous | I have a bittorrent client on my media server that periodicly downloads RSS feeds from a few torrent trackers, parses them for torrents I want and starts downloading them | 03:51 |
| elb | briand: interesting ... mine would stream neither audio files nor TV recordings | 03:51 |
| Proteous | I have it set up to download some TV shows that I like | 03:51 |
| ^Jsn^ | oh thats cool | 03:51 |
| elb | it always says something like "specified file could not be opened", or "server could not be contacted", or some such | 03:51 |
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| jgombos | what do you folks do for internet connectivity? | 03:52 |
| jgombos | that is.. on the go | 03:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | 3g through AT&T | 03:52 |
| briand | elb: mine wont stream my (huge!) mp3 collection, or any of the recordings (647, at present)... but I have a couple mtv videos in the video module from when I was testing some dev work on the box... they're streaming just fine! | 03:52 |
| jgombos | tethering using pdanet or the like? | 03:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | MediaMAX 200, actually. :S | 03:53 |
| jgombos | what speeds do you get? | 03:53 |
| ^Jsn^ | anyone tried Orb on the tablet? | 03:53 |
| jgombos | I've heard tethering slows people down | 03:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~60KB/sec | 03:53 |
| briand | I ran a script to hack GeneralAntilles' WPA2-encrypted SSID, so I usually just follow him around town and stay connected constantly. | 03:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~350KB/sec on the phone. | 03:53 |
| jgombos | I'm running a portable hotspot.. but it costs me $50 usd/ month | 03:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | DUN is a little inefficient. | 03:54 |
| elb | briand: interesting | 03:54 |
| * briand smiles. | 03:54 | |
| GeneralAntilles | ohshi- | 03:54 |
| elb | briand: I don't have any videos, I should try sticking some on it | 03:54 |
| briand | elb: yes, watching "Take On Me" right now | 03:54 |
| elb | bluetooth is slow as hell | 03:55 |
| elb | is part of that equation | 03:55 |
| jgombos | what's the 60kb rate for? | 03:55 |
| elb | it's a typical bell-head ignorant standard | 03:55 |
| jgombos | it should be fast.. it's BT 2.0 | 03:55 |
| ^Jsn^ | I already called and got the media max added to my plan. I've read alot of good reviews on tethering it, even though it is not supported by cingular | 03:55 |
| jgombos | BT 1.2 would bottleneck it, but not 2.0 | 03:55 |
| jgombos | guess the phones are all 1.2 huh? | 03:56 |
| briand | the 1.99/ea headsets are... | 03:56 |
| briand | ;) | 03:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | PAN is in the ~120KB/sec range | 03:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | The bottleneck is DUN. | 03:56 |
| jgombos | DUN=dial up netoworking? That's a windows concept isn't it? | 03:57 |
| ^Jsn^ | my sony ericsson w810i is usb 2.0 | 03:57 |
| jgombos | I'm not sure how dun applies to tethering | 03:58 |
| ^Jsn^ | jgombos: Yes, but it is only a connection profile. The speeds of the dial up networking is limited only to the network that you are dialing into with cellular service. not the 56k baud rates that you are used to on land lines | 03:58 |
| Proteous | it's a bluetooth protocal | 03:58 |
| Proteous | it has slightly more overhead then bluetoothPAN | 03:58 |
| Proteous | so is slightly slower | 03:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | "slightly" :P | 03:59 |
| Proteous | PAN == personaly area network | 03:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a good 50% slower. | 03:59 |
| Proteous | heh | 03:59 |
| elb | bluetooth's protocol design is DUMB | 03:59 |
| jgombos | wait, so folks are dialing up using an analog modem over cellular? | 03:59 |
| elb | it's probably at least 50% slower | 03:59 |
| jgombos | that is nuts | 03:59 |
| Proteous | jgombos: no | 03:59 |
| Proteous | it's not analog | 03:59 |
| elb | connection-oriented bluetooth communication is crazy stupid overhead | 03:59 |
| elb | jgombos: it's ust the same words, not the same thing | 04:00 |
| briand | cellular rates never get better than 19.2K around here | 04:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | jgombos, it's a BT profile, it really has nothing to do with the 56k sort of modem. | 04:00 |
| jgombos | Bluetooth 2.0 supports 3 Mbps (same as 3G's max theoretical speed) | 04:00 |
| jgombos | so that has to be a heck of a lot of overhead | 04:00 |
| elb | jgombos: that's bit rate, not data transfer rate | 04:01 |
| Proteous | since when does max theoretical speed mean anything in the real world? | 04:01 |
| Proteous | I guess if you lock yourself in a metal mesh cage with your phone and your IT | 04:01 |
| jgombos | It's a speed that will never be exceeded | 04:02 |
| elb | bluetooth has a *huge* percentage of protocol overhead in terms of per-packet bit count, as well as ignorant handshaking | 04:02 |
| briand | data over cellular = "welcome to the 1980s!" | 04:02 |
| elb | I mean ... BIG bluetooth packets are like 16 bytes or something | 04:02 |
| ^Jsn^ | data over cellular = "good alternative to not having wifi service!" | 04:03 |
| Proteous | you guys and your bluetoothDUN, so 10 years ago. My phone from the future uses UWB | 04:03 |
| elb | except that data over cellular is unbelievably overpriced in the US | 04:03 |
| briand | indeed | 04:03 |
| jgombos | I actually get 2 Mbps from my EVDO | 04:04 |
| jgombos | (on a good day) | 04:04 |
| Proteous | everything cellular is overpriced in the US | 04:04 |
| ^Jsn^ | lol u should go over seas | 04:04 |
| ^Jsn^ | it might be cheaper in the UK, but definantly not in south america | 04:04 |
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| jgombos | Yeah, Americans are morons for consumers | 04:04 |
| jgombos | It's nuts that they let all the cellular marketing scams take them | 04:05 |
| ^Jsn^ | I'll gladly pay $35 a month for unlimited data usage, even if it is edge | 04:05 |
| jgombos | I managed to find a niche service that resells Sprint contracts w/out contract. | 04:05 |
| elb | well, not "everything cellular" is overpriced | 04:05 |
| elb | the actual handsets are fairly priced (no better), and voice communication is rock-bottom cheap | 04:05 |
| elb | but data so horribly overpriced it's not even fair to compare :-P | 04:06 |
| jgombos | Once you account for all the contracts, rules, and scams, it is overpriced | 04:06 |
| elb | not really | 04:06 |
| elb | well, I take that back | 04:06 |
| elb | if you don't use your phone very much, it is | 04:06 |
| jgombos | Consumer reports published a 60% satisfaction rating for all US cellular customers | 04:06 |
| elb | but if you use the phone a lot for voice communication, it's much cheaper than abroad | 04:07 |
| briand | my cell is the only telephone in the house. | 04:07 |
| jgombos | no internet phone? | 04:07 |
| elb | what is this "internet phone" you speak of? | 04:07 |
| jgombos | VOIP | 04:07 |
| elb | people still use phone lines for internet connectivity? | 04:07 |
| elb | how primitive | 04:07 |
| elb | oh | 04:07 |
| ^Jsn^ | yeah i have no home phone and still have 4500 roll over minutes that i'll never use | 04:08 |
| jgombos | VOIP is the only way to have a secure conversation | 04:08 |
| jgombos | AFAIK | 04:08 |
| briand | nah. comcast can barely be trusted with analog video... wouldn't want to put all my communications in their hands! | 04:08 |
| Proteous | what about face to face? | 04:08 |
| Proteous | slipping secret notes across the classroom works pretty well too | 04:09 |
| jgombos | I agree.. don't trust comcast | 04:09 |
| Proteous | as long as the teacher doesn't see you | 04:09 |
| briand | jgombos: no, not at all. you can secure landline easily enough | 04:09 |
| jgombos | unless you VPN tunnel over them | 04:09 |
| briand | or cellular, for that matter | 04:09 |
| elb | although note that most people use commercial protocols without enough information to determine whether it's *really* secure | 04:09 |
| jgombos | how? | 04:09 |
| elb | so ... they may or may not actually be secure | 04:09 |
| ^Jsn^ | well I work for the DOD and all of our secure phones are VOIP | 04:09 |
| briand | i dunno how it is where you guys are, but there's a -huge- disparity between technology-users and those that know what they have, here... | 04:10 |
| briand | my n800 sees 14 networks at 3 bars or better, from inside my house. only one of them is mine. | 04:10 |
| jgombos | that's what I would expect.. but briand is saying landline / cellular can be secured | 04:10 |
| Proteous | digital comunications are much easier to encrypt then analog :) | 04:10 |
| briand | there's a fair number of "dlink" "linksys" and "NETGEAR" SSID broadcasts, unlocked... | 04:11 |
| elb | note that securing cellular is more difficult than securing a landline, because the compression is so aggressive | 04:11 |
| briand | jgombos: yes, it can. :) I've done it. | 04:11 |
| elb | jgombos: securing PSTN has been well understood for decades | 04:11 |
| jgombos | understood by who.. the nsa? | 04:11 |
| Proteous | whom | 04:11 |
| elb | understood by many | 04:12 |
| briand | an english major! | 04:12 |
| briand | ;) | 04:12 |
| elb | and you can buy devices to do it | 04:12 |
| * briand is an engineer. | 04:12 | |
| briand | or build them, elb. | 04:12 |
| briand | ;) | 04:12 |
| elb | or, these days, write them in software | 04:12 |
| briand | better yet, firmware. | 04:12 |
| ^Jsn^ | Has anyone tried that media player that mimic's the ipod touch? If so, does it work well? | 04:12 |
| elb | note that the actual bandwidth of a GSM line is *very* low compared to a PSTN line -- you can easily pump voice quality audio through a regular dialup modem at 9600 baud | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Canola? ^Jsn^? | 04:13 |
| elb | which means you can encrypt it with whatever you like :-) | 04:13 |
| Proteous | rot13? | 04:13 |
| jgombos | voice doesn't take much bandwidth.. just a good latency | 04:13 |
| briand | ha! | 04:13 |
| elb | if you like ;-) | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | ROT26! | 04:13 |
| jgombos | VOIP will work over analog dialup | 04:13 |
| Proteous | heh | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | They'll never guess. | 04:13 |
| Proteous | VOIP works over sneakernet, but the latency is horrible | 04:14 |
| briand | just use a 'one time pad' | 04:14 |
| ^Jsn^ | GeneralAntilles: UKMP | 04:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's fine | 04:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | but no longer under development. | 04:14 |
| ^Jsn^ | is canola better? | 04:14 |
| briand | better for you, when deep-frying. | 04:14 |
| briand | okay.. i need coffee. brb. | 04:15 |
| jgombos | So is there any way to tether and have the bottleneck at the EVDO connection? ie. over USB? | 04:15 |
| Proteous | I prefer peanut oil, for the higher smoke point | 04:15 |
| elb | eh, canola oil doesn't smoke at 400 degrees | 04:15 |
| elb | and that's all that matters | 04:15 |
| jgombos | yeah peanut is up there w/ sesame | 04:15 |
| ^Jsn^ | so what is the best media player for OS2008? | 04:15 |
| elb | grapeseed oil is even higher, but that's irrelevant too ;-) | 04:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^Jsn^, that's not an answerable question | 04:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Depends on your needs | 04:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Out of any 10 people, most of them will give you different answers. | 04:17 |
| jgombos | w/ an emerging device, that's not a bad question though.. there may only be 2 or 3 to choose from | 04:17 |
| jgombos | and only one may be ready for prime time | 04:17 |
| elb | therea re more like 20 or 30 ;-) | 04:17 |
| Proteous | 1: I use cat /dev/audio I don't even see the code anymore, all I see is Bach, Clapton, NIN | 04:18 |
| briand | ...and i thought *I* was eclectic in my music tastes! | 04:18 |
| jgombos | i've only heard about Canola so far | 04:18 |
| jgombos | irc needs a "/np" command | 04:18 |
| ^Jsn^ | can canola play avi? | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Canola, UKMP, Media player, Kagu, XMMS, mpd/mmpc | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | the list goes on | 04:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ^Jsn^, everything uses either mplayer on gstreamer. | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Canola can actually use both | 04:19 |
| jgombos | It's quite impressive that canola can stream from your home library though.. do others do that? | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | but, yes, it can do .avi. | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Media player | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Media streamer | 04:20 |
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| ^Jsn^ | I wish that the 810 had a video ouput cable. It would be cool to stream from my home video collection, but not to a 4 inch screen | 04:21 |
| jgombos | what would the role of the nokia be in that case? | 04:22 |
| jgombos | u don't need it | 04:22 |
| jgombos | ..unless the tv isn't connected to a media player | 04:22 |
| ^Jsn^ | well I travel alot. I'd like to put some movies on an 8gig card and connect it to a tv in the hotel room and watch the movie, rather than on the device | 04:23 |
| ^Jsn^ | yeah i don't have my house networked yet | 04:23 |
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| jgombos | any1 know if there is any effort planned to get an Ada compiler for our toy? | 04:24 |
| ^Jsn^ | what is ada? | 04:25 |
| Proteous | that's going to be worked on right after the fortran compiler | 04:25 |
| briand | right after the cobol compiler, no doubt... | 04:25 |
| Proteous | doh, you beat me to it | 04:25 |
| briand | Proteous: did we have the smae parents? | 04:25 |
| Proteous | heh | 04:25 |
| jgombos | It's a language.. the most reliable in the world.. used for safety critical tasks | 04:25 |
| Proteous | will it make the nokia IT crashproof? | 04:25 |
| briand | safer than prolog? surely you jest! | 04:26 |
| jgombos | Ada would make the NIT closer to crashproof than it would be w/out it | 04:26 |
| Proteous | everyone knows the safest programing language is "insert your safe language of choise here" | 04:27 |
| briand | perl -- it's as safe as you want it to be. | 04:27 |
| jgombos | To be precise, 6 times closer to crashproof than C programs | 04:27 |
| jgombos | and 3 times more crashproof than C++ | 04:27 |
| elb | you can't make that claim | 04:27 |
| elb | and you CERTAINLY can't make *that* claim | 04:27 |
| jgombos | Lockheed made the claim | 04:28 |
| jgombos | of course, after an extensive study | 04:28 |
| elb | government contractors hire monkeys to write their code | 04:28 |
| Proteous | but 74.23% of statistics are made up? | 04:28 |
| briand | i can write you an 18 byte "hello world" program in assembler that you can't crash. how big would the equivalent program be in ada? | 04:28 |
| briand | Proteous: true, but 19% of those are true, anyway, on average. | 04:29 |
| jgombos | Doesn't matter, Ada is not for trivial packages | 04:29 |
| Proteous | it'll crash if I expose the CPU to cosmic rays while it is running! MUHAHAHAHA | 04:29 |
| briand | not if i write it with man-in-the-moon marigold protection! | 04:29 |
| Proteous | is that like pokemon power? | 04:30 |
| briand | no, it's a vague literary reference from the 1960s | 04:30 |
| Proteous | ah | 04:30 |
| briand | "the effect of gamma rays on man-in-the-moon marigolds" | 04:30 |
| Proteous | not familiar with that one | 04:31 |
| briand | there's a wikipedia link on your n8x0 tablet... | 04:31 |
| briand | ;) | 04:31 |
| Proteous | sadly, I have a n770 | 04:31 |
| Proteous | and it's installing canola2 ATM | 04:31 |
| Proteous | now it's being rebooted | 04:32 |
| Proteous | now I"m watching weak nokia hands | 04:33 |
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| Proteous | I get the subtle message that nokia feels the need to hold my hand like I am a child | 04:34 |
| dospod | I get the feel nokia dosent know how to market their products well | 04:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | dospod, it's not that | 04:38 |
| jgombos | well nokia should probably ignore the US market anyway | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | it's that they don't want to market until they hit step 5. | 04:38 |
| jgombos | Americans are too into the closed boxed junk | 04:38 |
| derf | What step are we on now? Collect underpants? | 04:39 |
| elb | s/Americans/people/ | 04:39 |
| ^Jsn^ | hey don't need great advertising when they have kickass products | 04:39 |
| jgombos | only if europeans != people | 04:39 |
| elb | europeans are just as into "closed box junk" as Americans are | 04:39 |
| Navi | heh | 04:39 |
| elb | unless I completely misunderstand your meaning of "closed box junk" | 04:40 |
| jgombos | linux is popular outside of the US.. relatively speaking | 04:40 |
| ^Jsn^ | europe is america part 2 | 04:40 |
| jgombos | Asia and europe in particular | 04:40 |
| elb | I doubt that it's any more popular outside the US than it is in America | 04:40 |
| elb | my personal experience certainly doesn't suggest that is the case | 04:40 |
| ^Jsn^ | that whats the case | 04:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | jgombos, that sounds like a bogus claim. | 04:40 |
| elb | ^Jsn^: that Linux is measurably "more popular" outside the US than within | 04:41 |
| jgombos | The US gov embraces M$, even when it's not appropriate | 04:41 |
| derf | I don't know about Asia, but Linux is certainly much less popular in Japan than the US. | 04:41 |
| briand | or legal, for that matter | 04:41 |
| Navi | The government embraces Linux to pinch pennies | 04:41 |
| jgombos | yeah, I can agree on japan | 04:41 |
| jgombos | (where it's cool to be american) | 04:41 |
| elb | jgombos: yes, itis true that the government doesn't adopt Linux as much as (I think) it should -- but neither do European governments, by and large | 04:42 |
| jgombos | Navi, actually, it's about reliability | 04:42 |
| jgombos | The german gov. forced M$ to show the source.. and then chose linux anyway | 04:42 |
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| Navi | There are a few European countries that have huge Linux adoption rates, though. | 04:42 |
| jgombos | the whole inspection was for reliability | 04:42 |
| briand | and they embrace M$ because it's about accountability. they need a warrantee | 04:42 |
| * elb bows out of this conversation, because it doesn't seem to be as much about facts as emotions | 04:43 | |
| dospod | I hate how populor ms is | 04:43 |
| jgombos | And australia, from what I understand | 04:43 |
| dospod | windows is good dont get me wrong but the monoply needs to be stopped | 04:43 |
| jgombos | I also see a lot of open source products coming out of germany | 04:43 |
| jgombos | Ha, but M$ doesn't warrant their product either! | 04:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | elb, when is that ever not true? :P | 04:43 |
| briand | no, windows is not good, merely pervasive | 04:43 |
| lcuk_3 | you cannot stop something until you have a viable alternative - as a linux dev i do not think its ready | 04:44 |
| jgombos | The fitness of windows comes w/ no guarantee | 04:44 |
| elb | GeneralAntilles: well ... there's a level of it that can be tolerated ;-) | 04:44 |
| briand | jgombos: true, but they'll sell you a support plan. | 04:44 |
| lcuk_3 | (tho apple is) | 04:44 |
| ^Jsn^ | I just don't understand why an open source OS has to resort to command line functions for installing applications!? | 04:44 |
| jgombos | but there are linux based companies that will do the same | 04:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^Jsn^, it has everything to do with its background. | 04:44 |
| briand | only while we wait for the ada implemented GUI installer app to show up.. | 04:45 |
| jgombos | Windows is being chosen carelessly.. it's a terrible "default" choice | 04:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Commandline isn't a bad thing, though. | 04:45 |
| ^Jsn^ | for the average user it is. | 04:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | jgombos, for a lot of people, it's all about availability and compatibility. | 04:45 |
| dospod | command line is scary to people who arent computer litarate | 04:46 |
| briand | i did computer support in the good ol' DOS days. reliability through obfuscation! nobody ever accidentally formatted their HD, or accidentally typed in a destructive command... | 04:46 |
| dospod | like my parents would think something bad is going on if they had to open a command line | 04:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | The average joe is gonna suffer a lot more trying to run Linux without a knowledgeable person than Windows. | 04:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | People that know something about Windows are a dime a dozen. | 04:46 |
| * elb suggests that people google "In the Beginning was the Command Line" | 04:46 | |
| wumpus | linux can be quite simple too, if you take the right distribution you never have to see a commandline or anything else scary | 04:47 |
| briand | you only "rm / -rf *" once, and then you learn not to do it. | 04:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | wumpus, that's only really a recent development. | 04:47 |
| elb | (an essay which I actually have on my 810!) | 04:47 |
| Proteous | elb, I love that book | 04:47 |
| pupnik | you don't need a commandline to use a tablet. it just enhances your power | 04:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a lot of inertia to overcome. | 04:47 |
| jgombos | I've taken a man in his 70s from a typewriter directly to linux.. he could handle it fine. | 04:47 |
| wumpus | well, try ubuntu I'd say | 04:47 |
| jgombos | linux is ready for laypeople | 04:47 |
| elb | Proteous: yeah, it's excellent; it oversimplifies a lot, and takes some liberty with the details, but drives home some good points | 04:47 |
| dospod | plus people expect to play mp3s out of box | 04:47 |
| wumpus | 'very recent' is already two years or so | 04:47 |
| Proteous | yeah | 04:47 |
| * lcuk_3 lays people. (hoping they are nubile linux using chicks) | 04:47 | |
| GeneralAntilles | wumpus, right, that's very recent for overcoming 20 years of Windows inertia. | 04:48 |
| wumpus | well I've introduced new users to it and they found it simple too | 04:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most people don't have Linux support people to fall back on. | 04:48 |
| wumpus | as soon as you know where the word processor, browser is in the meu you're ready to go :) | 04:48 |
| Proteous | easy linux is two words, asus eeepc | 04:49 |
| jgombos | I gave a guy in his 50s a dual booting Win2k / DSL linux box.. he said DSL is easier | 04:49 |
| ^Jsn^ | it is simple, if you have the list of commands taped to the side of your computer | 04:49 |
| lcuk_3 | Proteous, 100% | 04:49 |
| jgombos | it was his first computer | 04:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | In the business world, there's a lot of stuff that Linux simply doesn't have solutions to. | 04:49 |
| wumpus | there's also a lot that it has solutions too | 04:49 |
| lcuk_3 | people buy it cos its small and cheap - and most of all because of this they dont expect the latest and greatest windows things to work anyway - "its just a cheap computer" | 04:49 |
| Proteous | I'm a firm beliver in using the best tool for the job, but an even firmer beliver in knowing your tools inside and out, which helps mightly with rule 1 | 04:50 |
| briand | exactly. | 04:50 |
| ^Jsn^ | I don't get the eeepc, they are comparing it to the 810. It is a very small laptop. not a pocket portable internet tablet | 04:50 |
| Navi | They're comparing it because it's comparable in pricing. | 04:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like the "but I can fit my Eee in my pocket" retort. | 04:51 |
| lcuk_3 | the problem with linux is that there are 4000 different (buit similar) tools which all nearly do what you want but not quite | 04:51 |
| Proteous | you could sew a custom EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPC pocket | 04:51 |
| wumpus | anyway, the business world is a completely different thing than making it usable for laypeople | 04:51 |
| jgombos | But back to marketing, Nokia would be foolish to spend much on marketing to a crowd of wisdom-lacking windows-using consumers.. their marketing it to the folks who will seek out what's good | 04:51 |
| Navi | I'm a firm believer in shut the fuck up. | 04:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 04:51 |
| Proteous | heh | 04:51 |
| jgombos | *they're | 04:51 |
| ^Jsn^ | lol | 04:52 |
| jgombos | i know if I don't correct myself, the english major will | 04:52 |
| lcuk_3 | this isn't /. | 04:52 |
| Navi | Rabble rabble rabble rabble! | 04:53 |
| ^Jsn^ | no one answered me, has anyone tried orb with the tablet? | 04:53 |
| jgombos | what's that? | 04:53 |
| Proteous | I for one welcome or non marketing savy but great product producing nokia overlords | 04:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^Jsn^, yes, somebody has. | 04:53 |
| ^Jsn^ | its an internet based tv streaming site. it's free and streams your video, audio, and live tv from your computer | 04:54 |
| ^Jsn^ | anyone that is currently alive in this room | 04:54 |
| Navi | No. | 04:54 |
| Proteous | I used that for a while | 04:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tabletblog.com/search?q=orb | 04:54 |
| ^Jsn^ | Proteous: with the tablet? | 04:54 |
| pupnik | The teletype would shudder as it was possessed by the spirit of the distant mainframe, and begin to hammer out cryptic messages. | 04:55 |
| Proteous | yeah | 04:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik's possessed! | 04:55 |
| * briand actually owns a PDP-11 | 04:55 | |
| Proteous | it never worked that well for me, although I don't know if it was orbs fault or just my crappy previous wifi router | 04:55 |
| briand | now *there's* some processing power! | 04:55 |
| SDuensin | Can I come over and play Space War? | 04:56 |
| briand | hahaha | 04:56 |
| ^Jsn^ | I was just wondering if the 400mhz processor was enough to stream it without freezing and dropping frames | 04:56 |
| * GeneralAntilles recommends http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/ | 04:56 | |
| briand | sure, bring your own rpo 6-pack disk, tho... | 04:56 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 04:56 |
| elb | my previous academic advisor still uses a microvax as his primary workstation | 04:56 |
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| elb | let me take that back | 04:57 |
| Proteous | I have tversity running on my media server, it on the fly transcodes my video and streams it to my n770 where media streamer sucessfully plays it back | 04:57 |
| elb | he *sits* in front of a sparcstation -- but all of his work is on the microvax | 04:57 |
| briand | that's exactly what I need to set up on my myth server | 04:58 |
| Proteous | the video quality isn't amazing :) | 04:58 |
| jgombos | speaking of sparcstation.. is it possible to develop maemo apps on one? | 04:58 |
| Proteous | but the niftyness factor is off the charts | 04:59 |
| jgombos | I'd like to actually do something w/ this ultra 10 I just got running | 04:59 |
| briand | Proteous: i wouldn't expect it to be so, nor is it necessary on the small screen | 04:59 |
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| dospod | any news on the youtube app? | 04:59 |
| Proteous | you're already doing something with it. Protecting your house from being blown away by the wind | 04:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | tablet-tuber? | 04:59 |
| SDuensin | Proteous - hehehee | 04:59 |
| dospod | idk its a new topic in the software section of internettablettalk | 05:00 |
| briand | Proteous: exactly. i want to set it up so that i can stream my myth stuff to my n800 when i'm down in West Palm visiting my sister, next month. | 05:00 |
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| ^Jsn^ | GeneralAntilles: Thanks for the link | 05:00 |
| Proteous | I never did figure out how to get UPNP server discovery working over a SSH tunnel | 05:00 |
| Proteous | but tversity has a web frontend too, and that is easy to tunnel | 05:00 |
| briand | :) myth has mythweb. nice interface, and access to audio and video libraries | 05:01 |
| Proteous | I've used it to browse my media library from a non local lan connection | 05:01 |
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| ^Jsn^ | Proteous: Does it stream threw ip as well? And is it free? | 05:02 |
| Proteous | yes, and yes | 05:02 |
| ^Jsn^ | cool | 05:03 |
| pupnik | hahaha "Your Web browser is Ronald Reagan" | 05:03 |
| Proteous | and it has a preset transcode setting for the nokia tablet | 05:03 |
| Proteous | tablets* | 05:03 |
| ^Jsn^ | nice. | 05:03 |
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| ^Jsn^ | I read about tunneling a while back. Seems a bit complicated to setup | 05:04 |
| Proteous | not really | 05:05 |
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| elb | ssh -D is your friend | 05:05 |
| jgombos | The client end of a tunnel is easy | 05:05 |
| jgombos | The server end can be complex | 05:05 |
| Proteous | there is a little bit of a learning curve to get you head wrapped around it and to learn the commands, but it's a super useful thing to know/use | 05:06 |
| elb | ssh -D eliminates most of that curve | 05:07 |
| elb | for 95% of use cases or more | 05:07 |
| Proteous | yeah, but knowing how to use -L makes it easier to realize how much useful stuff you can do :) | 05:09 |
| briand | what? no man pages on the n800 ? for shame! | 05:09 |
| elb | I never use -L and -R any more | 05:09 |
| elb | I have NO IDEA why all the SSH tutorials out there detail them, and not -D | 05:09 |
| elb | (if I were to choose only one, it would be -D, hands down) | 05:09 |
| Proteous | you've never forwareded a port to a machine that wasn't the sshd server then :P | 05:11 |
| elb | yes, I have | 05:12 |
| elb | but that's virtually never actually required | 05:12 |
| Proteous | sure it is | 05:12 |
| derf | I agree. It is. | 05:12 |
| elb | have you looked to see what -D does? | 05:12 |
| Proteous | well, I use it a lot | 05:13 |
| elb | you may use it a lot, but there are *very* few instances where -D doesn't solve it just as well, without a specific forward | 05:13 |
| Proteous | remotly getting at services running on a machine behind a firewall that is running sshd | 05:13 |
| elb | right -- I use -D for that all the time | 05:13 |
| elb | seriously, look it up | 05:13 |
| elb | it creates a SOCKS proxy on localhost which connects from the remote end of the tunnel | 05:14 |
| elb | it's basically exactly like setting up an indefinite number of -L tunnels, but requires only one local port | 05:14 |
| elb | the only catch is that your client has to speak SOCKS | 05:14 |
| elb | (the "virtually never" where it matters is when you need to forward something you can't coax through SOCKS) | 05:15 |
| elb | -R is a different story, but for -L ... -D is usually what you actaully want :-) | 05:15 |
| jgombos | Any european SWE's here? ..that is, as a day job? | 05:19 |
| dospod | .. idk why but im dissapointed in my n8-00 still | 05:21 |
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| ^Jsn^ | Proteous: I was reading the features of tversity and it doesn't list that it streams live tv from your tuner card. Have u tried this? | 05:22 |
| Proteous | I don't have a tuner card | 05:22 |
| ^Jsn^ | does it have the option on the server software? | 05:23 |
| Proteous | no | 05:25 |
| Proteous | Orb is probably the way to go for that | 05:26 |
| ^Jsn^ | yeah i just don't know if it transcodes. thats a pretty cool feature | 05:27 |
| Proteous | Orb will | 05:27 |
| jgombos | who was it that was using mutt on the NIT? | 05:30 |
| jgombos | I'm thinking that has to be a pain in the ass to use w/out a full size keyboard | 05:31 |
| Proteous | no one | 05:31 |
| Proteous | well I ssh into a server and run mutt there | 05:31 |
| jgombos | no, someone said they use it (over ssh) | 05:31 |
| Proteous | that was me | 05:31 |
| jgombos | you do that by fat fingering a n810 keyboard? | 05:32 |
| Proteous | basic mutt usage doesn't require very many keys | 05:32 |
| Proteous | I have a n770 | 05:32 |
| elb | the n810 keyboard is pretty usable | 05:32 |
| elb | I have used mutt over ssh on an n810, using the hard keyboard | 05:32 |
| jgombos | i don't know anything about that one.. is the 770 using an onscreen keyboard? | 05:32 |
| Proteous | yes | 05:33 |
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| dragorn | the on-screen KB eats too much for terminal apps, for me, but the 810 makes them quite usable | 05:33 |
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| jgombos | i'd like to do the same.. but I guess I'd have to have a large keyboard | 05:34 |
| Proteous | with a few creative shortcut menu keys you don't have to pop up the keyboard much | 05:34 |
| Proteous | but yeah, I'd rather have an 810 but it's not in the budget yet :P | 05:34 |
| jgombos | someone said the 810 is slimmer than the 800.. hard to believe w/ the keyboard. + the fact that gps is added. | 05:35 |
| jgombos | The show stopper for me would be just having one SD slot. | 05:36 |
| lcuk_3 | im ashamed to say im still using the onbard and havent filled the free slot yet. i keep most of my media on big machine and just copy what i need. | 05:37 |
| lcuk_3 | mind you, i am happy with a 1gb ipod | 05:37 |
| derf | Yeah, me, too, actually. | 05:37 |
| derf | I'm waiting for 16GB cards. | 05:37 |
| Proteous | I just have the stock mem card for my 770, and most of that is in use as virtual memory | 05:38 |
| lcuk_3 | im waiting until i find a need for any | 05:38 |
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| lcuk_3 | on that day i will get the largest i can afford but not until | 05:38 |
| jgombos | 16GB cards arn't supported.. is that pure s/w issue? | 05:38 |
| derf | Well, until 16GB cards are cheap, I mean. | 05:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | jgombos, on what? | 05:38 |
| jgombos | ie.. something that will be overcome? | 05:38 |
| Proteous | the 810 only supports up to 8gb cards | 05:38 |
| jgombos | n800 doesn't support over 8GB | 05:38 |
| Proteous | might be a power issue? | 05:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800 supports up to 32GB right now. | 05:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | More, once they update the SDHC standard. | 05:39 |
| jgombos | I read the limit was 2x8GB (16GB) | 05:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | N810 will support 16GB MiniSD once they're out. | 05:39 |
| jgombos | maybe it was the n810 | 05:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whoever wrote that is an idiot. | 05:39 |
| dragorn | the 810 only has one slot, so that wasn't it | 05:39 |
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| * lcuk_3 looks at his 256mb memory stick and ponders | 05:41 | |
| Proteous | from the nokia site: 810 specs: 2GB of internal storage, with memory expansion slot supporting cards up to 8GB | 05:41 |
| jgombos | i'd like to track down where I read that | 05:41 |
| Proteous | doesn't mean it won't, that's just what they say | 05:41 |
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| Alondria | Okay - this is weird.. I got boot from MMC working, however, when I boot from MMC, when the screen "fades", it flickers. I don't notice this when booting from flash. | 05:42 |
| Proteous | stop blinking? | 05:42 |
| dragorn | there shouldn't be any hardware limitation, so I'd wager that 8 gig number is either a temporary sw limit or that there aren't any larger mini cards | 05:42 |
| Proteous | heh | 05:42 |
| dragorn | or weren't, at the time of writing | 05:42 |
| jgombos | is that mmc, or mmcplus? | 05:42 |
| lcuk_3 | memory drain - im getting it when i try working with large datasets in memory. you can see the screen dim - its like when you mess with electrics in the car, the lights dim | 05:42 |
| Proteous | the 810 has a miniSD slot | 05:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | dragon, there aren't any cards. | 05:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | 8GB is just what Nokia tested up to. | 05:43 |
| lcuk_3 | 16GB micro sdhc with adapter | 05:43 |
| Proteous | even the 8gig cards are hard to find | 05:43 |
| lcuk_3 | £119 | 05:43 |
| jgombos | i just got an 8GB card for $8 USD 3 wks ago | 05:43 |
| dragorn | micro or standard | 05:44 |
| jgombos | standard SDHC | 05:44 |
| dragorn | yeah that's why | 05:44 |
| dragorn | the 810 is mini sdhc | 05:44 |
| Proteous | is it one of the junky transend cards that get .00000004 mbps throughput? | 05:44 |
| Proteous | :) | 05:44 |
| jgombos | sorry.. hard to keep the 810/800 discussion straight | 05:44 |
| dragorn | mini or micro 8 gig are relatively rare, and often kinda crap | 05:44 |
| * lcuk_3 backs up | 05:44 | |
| lcuk_3 | thats wong, google lied | 05:44 |
| Proteous | damn you wong!!! | 05:45 |
| jgombos | that's another reason I intend to avoid the n810 | 05:45 |
| dragorn | Avoid it all you want, I kind of doubt they'll be moving back towards fullsize sd. Time will tell, of course. | 05:45 |
| Proteous | if you don't value the smaller size or the keyboard, by all means go with the cheaper, more slot endowed n800 | 05:45 |
| lcuk_3 | i am really surprised they didnt put dual micro slots in | 05:46 |
| jgombos | well, maybe by the time I upgrade, the micro cards w/ have better availability and it won't matter | 05:46 |
| Proteous | there's GPS too I guess | 05:46 |
| jgombos | certainly right now it's quite limiting | 05:46 |
| dragorn | I was pissed at the gps last weekend | 05:46 |
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| Proteous | probably space constraints | 05:46 |
| dragorn | was driving back from dc, sick as hell, just sort of following the directions and trying not to drive off the road | 05:46 |
| dragorn | and it tried to send me through f'ing manhattan for no reason | 05:47 |
| dragorn | fortunately I was smarter than it at the last minute, but that sucked. | 05:47 |
| Proteous | heh, is that a GPS issue or a mapping software issue :P | 05:47 |
| dragorn | mapping sw | 05:47 |
| jgombos | Can the GPS be turned off easily? (i'm thinking it's a battery leech) | 05:47 |
| lcuk_3 | is there physically enough room in a mini sd for 2 micro sds? | 05:47 |
| dragorn | jga23: it turns on only when used | 05:47 |
| dragorn | er | 05:47 |
| dragorn | jgombos: see above | 05:47 |
| Proteous | lcuk_3: cramming two micro cards in there won't work | 05:48 |
| dragorn | it can also be outright disabled | 05:48 |
| Proteous | I tried | 05:48 |
| Proteous | neither of them worked, turns out you need to use some sort of micro to mini adaptor | 05:48 |
| jgombos | nice to be able to forcefully disable it.. so you can stay current w/ BT GPS advancements | 05:48 |
| lcuk_3 | yer i know that - i was thinking of some sort of dual micro -> mini adapter | 05:49 |
| jgombos | (and not leech battery when you navigate) | 05:49 |
| Proteous | :P | 05:49 |
| dragorn | jgombos: I wouldn't be confident in the assumption that BT uses less power than GPS, would have to check the chip specs | 05:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dual-micro slots would satiate me for the N900. | 05:49 |
| lcuk_3 | if you have bt enabled anyway its gotta be a decent saving | 05:50 |
| jgombos | BT exists because of it's low power demand.. but you may be right in comparison to gps | 05:50 |
| jgombos | ha, I mean *its* low power demand | 05:51 |
| Navi | BT suxxorz all mah powahs! | 05:51 |
| jgombos | english major should have called me on that quicker | 05:51 |
| dragorn | jgombos: Checking... | 05:53 |
| jgombos | I thought it was interesting that they put an FM receiver in the n800.. but not a transmitter. | 05:53 |
| jgombos | Seems a FM transmitter would be more useful | 05:53 |
| jgombos | to more people | 05:54 |
| derf | And also require them to wade through more regulations. | 05:54 |
| derf | I was disappointed that they _didn't_ put a receiver in the N810. | 05:54 |
| Navi | Well, the receiver was part of the chipset they used, wasn't it? | 05:55 |
| jgombos | Regulations would be a non-issue if they just go w/ a canned solution (already approved circuits) | 05:55 |
| jgombos | perhaps.. i dunno.. but it doesn't work.. not out of the box anyway | 05:55 |
| derf | Is there a canned solution that's approved in all of the jurisdictions they sell in? | 05:55 |
| jgombos | I just installed the s/w, and just hear static on all channels | 05:55 |
| derf | It worked fine for me. | 05:56 |
| Navi | You need to have headphones plugged in, if you didn't do that. | 05:56 |
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| jgombos | good point derf | 05:56 |
| derf | Yeah, the headphones are the antenna. | 05:56 |
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| jgombos | I was just using the external speakers | 05:56 |
| jgombos | really, wow.. i'll try that | 05:56 |
| derf | The real fun is trying to get the sound to come out of the external speakers while the headphones are plugged in. | 05:57 |
| jgombos | nice! | 05:58 |
| jgombos | that was it | 05:58 |
| jgombos | very clever of them to use the headphones as an antenna | 05:58 |
| jgombos | wonder how many users that will stump | 05:58 |
| ^Jsn^ | navi: are you talking about on the 810 or 800? | 05:58 |
| jgombos | n800 | 05:58 |
| ^Jsn^ | oh | 05:59 |
| jgombos | n810 doesn't have the option | 05:59 |
| dragorn | jgombos: Well, I can't find any product sheets for the GPS5300 chipset. And I can't find any product sheets listing actual draw from BT on the OMAP. | 05:59 |
| jgombos | n810 users need a BT FM receiver | 05:59 |
| ^Jsn^ | i read an article that said that when the 800 came out, the fm receiver wasn't advertised, so people thought that maybe the 810 would still have it | 05:59 |
| jgombos | I suspect you're right though.. GPS probably uses less power | 05:59 |
| dragorn | "any product sheets" really meaning "that list actual power draw" | 05:59 |
| ^Jsn^ | well BT 2.0 is supposed to use half of the power that 1.2 used, so thats a plus | 06:00 |
| jgombos | interesting.. half the power and more than twice the speed | 06:00 |
| jgombos | less range, maybe? | 06:00 |
| lcuk_3 | better filtering algorythm | 06:01 |
| jgombos | Ha! I actually can play the fm radio through the external speakers | 06:01 |
| jgombos | it has an icon for that.. but headphones must be plugged in | 06:02 |
| ^Jsn^ | yeah yeah rub it in | 06:02 |
| jgombos | I'm surprised, because normally that headphone override is hardware implemented | 06:02 |
| lcuk_3 | headphones are for antenna arent they | 06:02 |
| Navi | Orb audio is fine. | 06:02 |
| jgombos | yeah | 06:02 |
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| ^Jsn^ | navi: have u tried orb video? | 06:03 |
| jgombos | the fm app is cool.. downloads all the radio callsigns or whatever from the area | 06:03 |
| jgombos | So i can select "wnci" for example, and it knows the freq. | 06:04 |
| dragorn | jgombos: welll, I found one advertised BT chipset that claims < 20mW, and a sirfIII that says ~ 150mW, but I don't know how those compare to the chips actually on the TI board. | 06:04 |
| jgombos | that's enough diff. that I don't think particular brand differences would matter | 06:05 |
| dragorn | Dunno that i'd be that confident :) | 06:05 |
| ^Jsn^ | does anyone know if the n810 gps chipset is sirf3? | 06:05 |
| dragorn | it's not | 06:05 |
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| jgombos | what is it then? | 06:05 |
| dragorn | it's a TI GPS5300 A-GPS chipset | 06:05 |
| Navi | orb video is fine | 06:05 |
| jgombos | never heard of it | 06:06 |
| dragorn | it's for cell phones | 06:06 |
| Navi | I'm streaming a 320x240 video though. | 06:06 |
| jgombos | The only chips I would favor over Sirf 3 are the MFK ones | 06:06 |
| dragorn | Specs imply it's meant to be joined with cell data to do assisted GPS | 06:06 |
| ^Jsn^ | navi: no studdering or frame dropping? | 06:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | MTK, jgombos. | 06:06 |
| dragorn | which the 810 isn't doing, obviously. | 06:06 |
| jgombos | ah, yeah | 06:06 |
| Navi | ^Jsn^, not really | 06:06 |
| ^Jsn^ | cool | 06:06 |
| Navi | I'm watching a full sized video now | 06:06 |
| Navi | gimme a sec | 06:07 |
| jgombos | MTK uses considerably less power than sirf star 3, and it's more accurate | 06:07 |
| jgombos | which would make it ideal for a PDA or the like | 06:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Network overhead with on-the-fly transcoding solutions reduces the total quality you can play without framedrop. | 06:07 |
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| Navi | video is decent with bleach straight from dattebayo. | 06:08 |
| Navi | not scaled down or anything | 06:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lot of framedrop in action scenes. | 06:08 |
| lcuk | also GeneralAntilles if you ever managed to get 800*480 video onto device, the xv video playback on lcd wont handle it | 06:08 |
| Navi | yeah, I haven't gotten to a fast paced area yet | 06:08 |
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| * lcuk curses its max resolution | 06:08 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, lcuk, I'm aware. :P | 06:09 |
| Navi | It's not that bad. | 06:09 |
| ^Jsn^ | yeah i'm not sure if orb transcodes or not | 06:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Navi, wait for the action. :P | 06:09 |
| Navi | even on action scenes | 06:09 |
| Navi | I'm watching one. | 06:09 |
| ^Jsn^ | GeneralAntilles: have u tried orb with your IT? | 06:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | It goes well bellow 5fps at some of the action scenes. | 06:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, Orb doesn't support my platform | 06:10 |
| Navi | It's streaming from realplayer | 06:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why don't you just go ahead and install it rather than asking everybody here about it? | 06:10 |
| Navi | Streaming from orb has better framerate than mplayer from the SD >_> | 06:11 |
| Navi | at least, that's what I'm experiencing :P | 06:11 |
| ^Jsn^ | because I haven't received my 810 yet. it's on its way | 06:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Orb is transcoded, Navi. | 06:12 |
| Navi | Yeah, I know. | 06:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then what's >_> about it? :P | 06:12 |
| Navi | Because you were talking about it as if it was unwatchable. | 06:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | framedrop is highly irritating to me. :D | 06:13 |
| Navi | :P | 06:13 |
| pupnik | when sad, make pizza | 06:14 |
| lcuk | why framedrop? if its transcoded that could just mean less detailed. so what if you cant see the blood vessels in a persons eye, you get to watch a decent movie at full speed | 06:14 |
| * lcuk has futurama on here and its great quality and speed even on built in media player | 06:15 | |
| GeneralAntilles | He said he gets better framerate with a transcoded video than an non-transcoded one. | 06:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | . . . duh. | 06:16 |
| ^Jsn^ | who said that? | 06:16 |
| lcuk | yer, you drop frames from original because it cant decode all details. hence one which decodes al frames gives higher framerate | 06:16 |
| Navi | Read context :P | 06:16 |
| * GeneralAntilles has lost track of what's being argued here. | 06:17 | |
| * GeneralAntilles gives up. | 06:17 | |
| ^Jsn^ | lol | 06:17 |
| Navi | you should. | 06:17 |
| lcuk | ?me can only see 3 lines as well :P | 06:17 |
| lcuk | this apple keyboard is lovely and quite for bedtime typing | 06:18 |
| jgombos | The docs make it sound like the SDK will only install on debian or ubuntu easily. Am i in for much work to install it on Red Hat 9? | 06:19 |
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| ^Jsn^ | Are there other linux based OS's for IT's, or just maemo? | 06:21 |
| * GeneralAntilles rants about silicone nipples for a bit. | 06:21 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Debian, Poky | 06:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mamona | 06:21 |
| ^Jsn^ | can u install any of those on the nokia? | 06:21 |
| jgombos | Mamona's faq says it's not rdy for prime time.. it'll be another year before it's stable | 06:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm assuming by "IT" you mean "Nokia IT". . . . | 06:22 |
| jgombos | But I'm looking forward to it, because it's 100% GNU | 06:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | jgombos, he didn't ask for "stable". | 06:23 |
| jgombos | Right, but it's useful to know | 06:23 |
| ^Jsn^ | yeah i meant stable releases | 06:23 |
| jgombos | well, i mean, not necessarily 100% gnu, but 100% free of commercial components | 06:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, then, "none". | 06:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Debian is probably closest. | 06:24 |
| ^Jsn^ | ok | 06:24 |
| jgombos | debian is more stable than maemo? | 06:25 |
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| * GeneralAntilles gives up again. | 06:26 | |
| GeneralAntilles | He asked for alternatives to ITOS | 06:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo is not included in that set. | 06:27 |
| Navi | Well | 06:27 |
| jgombos | ah, i c | 06:27 |
| Navi | If only development would go faster for it | 06:27 |
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| Navi | oh, sorry. It = mamona | 06:29 |
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| jgombos | Yeah, would be nice.. but Maemo's SDK is good enough to substitute until it's ready | 06:30 |
| jgombos | y'all using screen protectors? | 06:40 |
| jgombos | I've noticed a couple complaints that the screen gets scratched easily from the factory stylus | 06:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's because people use the screen with grit and grime on it. | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | I recommend a screen protector, though. | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Boxwave anti-glare in particular. | 06:42 |
| Navi | I keep my screen obsessively clean | 06:42 |
| Navi | Fingerprints irk me | 06:43 |
| jgombos | I already ordered one from elsewhere.. but i did notice someone else recommending boxwave | 06:43 |
| jgombos | i notice debris adheres to the screen easily for some reason.. unlike palms | 06:44 |
| Navi | I didn't notice that. | 06:44 |
| Navi | s/didn't/haven't/ | 06:44 |
| infobot | Navi meant: I haven't notice that. | 06:44 |
| Navi | s/notice/noticed/ | 06:44 |
| infobot | Navi meant: I didn't noticed that. | 06:44 |
| Navi | ... | 06:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 06:44 |
| pupnik | so who wants playstation 1 games on n8x0 | 06:46 |
| SDuensin | How on earth would you control it? | 06:46 |
| pupnik | poorly | 06:47 |
| jgombos | I wonder how all those DOS games are controlled on the NIT | 06:47 |
| * SDuensin has twisted visions of pairing a PS3 bluetooth pad with the device. :-) | 06:47 | |
| Navi | I'd rather decent nes emulation. | 06:47 |
| pupnik | yeah i will stick with it Navi | 06:48 |
| Navi | :) | 06:48 |
| jgombos | I'm about to use a lens cleaning tissue on the screen.. the "See Clear" ones from costco | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why? | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just use water. | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or your shirt. | 06:49 |
| jgombos | it's got some specs on it that don't seem to come off easily | 06:50 |
| Navi | :| | 06:54 |
| jgombos | I noticed there was universal remote s/w for the nIT.. so now all we need is IR h/w | 06:56 |
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| Soopaman | hello | 06:57 |
| Soopaman | is anyone awake? | 06:58 |
| jgombos | the americans are | 06:58 |
| Soopaman | heh | 06:59 |
| jgombos | and canadians | 06:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Irrecco connects to a server. | 06:59 |
| Soopaman | are there any north americans familiar with the chinook "dpkg-preconfigure" issue? | 07:00 |
| jgombos | did you spell that right? google has 3 hits for it | 07:00 |
| T0b0tras | It north america they call dpkg-reconfigure in such a backward way | 07:01 |
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| jgombos | found the server: http://www.irtrans.de/en/ | 07:04 |
| jgombos | that must be a coming attraction for me.. never used dpkg | 07:06 |
| jgombos | i've been spoiled with portage | 07:06 |
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| jgombos | it's going to get under my skin that all these APIs are in C | 07:12 |
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| Soopaman | jgombos, t0b0tras, that's what a chinook apt-get errors out with | 07:17 |
| Soopaman | and it seems that it doesn't have dpkg-reconfigure either | 07:18 |
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| T0b0tras | Soopaman: looks like package author's typo | 07:20 |
| Soopaman | [sbox-CHINOOK_X86: ~] > fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-dev | 07:20 |
| Soopaman | is what i am trying to do | 07:21 |
| Soopaman | but i can't seem to find any info on finding the missing packages | 07:22 |
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| Soopaman | any suggestions? | 07:23 |
| jgombos | no idea. You're ahead of me | 07:24 |
| Soopaman | pardon? | 07:25 |
| jgombos | You've made more progress than me. I have no idea how to tell you to find missing packages | 07:26 |
| jgombos | I'm only now downloading the SDK. | 07:26 |
| Soopaman | ahh, ok | 07:28 |
| Soopaman | t0b0, any ideas? | 07:28 |
| jgombos | I don't even use debian | 07:28 |
| jgombos | It looks like it could get ugly for me. The docs are telling me I need to install Xephr just to use the SDK | 07:29 |
| jgombos | I hate screwing with X servers | 07:30 |
| Navi | I don't like to screw with too many Xs either. I prefer a 1:1 X to Y ratio. | 07:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | <_< | 07:31 |
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| jgombos | Do i have to replace KDE w/ Xephyr on my desktop, or is Xephyr installed internal to the sandbox? | 07:35 |
| Navi | You just need the Xephyr X module installed. Xephyr runs on top of a running X server. | 07:35 |
| jgombos | If something goes wrong, could it mess up my desktop? Or just the SDK environment? | 07:36 |
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| Navi | Well, depends on what you mess up. | 07:37 |
| jgombos | okay.. I'm just trying to get a general idea of the risks. | 07:37 |
| jgombos | my knowledge is weak on Xserver configs | 07:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just run the VMWare image. | 07:37 |
| jgombos | yeah, I can see how vmware would create a sheltered risk free environment | 07:38 |
| jgombos | but there's also a vmware learning curve :> | 07:38 |
| Navi | No there isn't. | 07:39 |
| Navi | You just boot up the image that's provided for you | 07:39 |
| Navi | The vmware image is Ubuntu, I believe. | 07:39 |
| jgombos | Doesn't VMware have to boot before my Red Hat kernel? | 07:39 |
| jgombos | Or does that run within a red hat session? | 07:40 |
| Navi | Do you know what VMWare is? | 07:40 |
| jgombos | only a very vague idea | 07:40 |
| jgombos | It's a way of running another os in parallel, right? | 07:41 |
| Navi | sure | 07:41 |
| jgombos | I'm not sure at which point vmware is in control.. I thought i remember it taking over the MBR or boot sector or something. | 07:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a virtualized machine. | 07:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Think of it like a windowed FPS | 07:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can cycle in and out of it. | 07:43 |
| jgombos | So I can boot my red hat box like normal, and simply run vmware as a user? | 07:45 |
| jgombos | which in turn just runs an image? | 07:45 |
| jgombos | if so, then I don't have a problem with it.. I'll probably try that | 07:45 |
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| dskippy | Does anyone know if I can set the master volume of the N800 from a python program? | 07:56 |
| jgombos | lol.. I just heard companies in Iowa who sell American flags that are not made in the US will be fined $625. | 07:58 |
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| zoran | Iowa is strange place at all :) | 08:00 |
| Tama^2 | it | 08:04 |
| Tama^2 | it's because if you want to be so silly to be patriotic you should at least do it properly | 08:04 |
| Tama^2 | ;) | 08:04 |
| jgombos | A german friend of mine said he wanted an american flag w/ a made in china tag as a souvenier a couple years ago.. guess he won't find it in iowa | 08:04 |
| jgombos | Apparently iowans are quite patriotic. I just watched a UFC match.. Tim Silvia from Iowa always enters the octagon w/ a flag around his neck | 08:05 |
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| zoran | what if some chinese made it in us? | 08:06 |
| dskippy | Is there a way to map the zoom +/- keys to volume system wide? | 08:06 |
| Tama^2 | zoran: then the label would say made in the US | 08:06 |
| Tama^2 | so no problem :P | 08:06 |
| zoran | :) | 08:06 |
| jgombos | what if the label itself is made in china? | 08:07 |
| zoran | it said "made in usa" | 08:08 |
| jgombos | If they tried to fine me under that new law, that's what I would argue. | 08:08 |
| zoran | and the cotton or nylon, where is that made? | 08:09 |
| zoran | silc bug, does it have correct nationality? | 08:09 |
| jgombos | yeah, and the inks? | 08:09 |
| jgombos | And what if I want a hemp flag? | 08:09 |
| zoran | s/silc/silk/ | 08:09 |
| infobot | zoran meant: silk bug, does it have correct nationality? | 08:09 |
| derf | This T-shirt I have from Australia has the Australian flag log and "Winning Spirit" on the tag. | 08:10 |
| derf | And then on the back it says, "Made in China". | 08:10 |
| zoran | for that kind you have to find million supporters in Amsterdam | 08:10 |
| derf | *logo | 08:11 |
| Tama^2 | true, and as a consequence it is decided that silk bugs are henceforth issued an RFID passport | 08:11 |
| zoran | yeah | 08:11 |
| Tama^2 | and have to pay taxes | 08:11 |
| zoran | or implanted | 08:11 |
| zoran | at least that kind of wokd should confine you from using improper free minds | 08:13 |
| zoran | s/wokd/work/ | 08:13 |
| infobot | zoran meant: at least that kind of work should confine you from using improper free minds | 08:13 |
| jgombos | s/hemp/bamboo/ | 08:15 |
| infobot | jgombos meant: And what if I want a bamboo flag? | 08:15 |
| zoran | he-he | 08:15 |
| jgombos | s/bamboo/rice/ | 08:15 |
| jgombos | just testing the infobot | 08:15 |
| jgombos | s/hemp/rice/ | 08:15 |
| jgombos | hmm.. it will only make one find and replace | 08:16 |
| zoran | you should mention once bamboo | 08:16 |
| zoran | s/bamboo/iron/ | 08:16 |
| infobot | zoran meant: you should mention once iron | 08:16 |
| zoran | s/testing/find/ | 08:17 |
| zoran | nope, you yourself should mantion it once! | 08:17 |
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| zoran | nothing happens if I change your statement | 08:17 |
| jgombos | yeah, i figured that | 08:17 |
| jgombos | or else it would have to say personA thinks personB meant... | 08:18 |
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| jgombos | just hit the first glitch on the SDK install. | 08:26 |
| jgombos | I was able create a user acct for scratchbox, and start scratchbox as root, but could not login as user | 08:26 |
| jgombos | Got a permission denied, before it even asked for my username or password | 08:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | You did it incorrectly. | 08:29 |
| jgombos | I installed as root, created user acct as root, and ran login as a user | 08:30 |
| jgombos | That was what the instructions directed | 08:30 |
| derf | Did you add your user to the sbox group? | 08:31 |
| jgombos | It said "starting scratchbox: mount" when I kicked it off.. is that the right message? | 08:31 |
| jgombos | yeah | 08:31 |
| derf | And then either log out and log back in, or start a new shell? | 08:31 |
| jgombos | sbox_adduser username yes | 08:31 |
| jgombos | ah, that might be it. the user acct may need a new shell | 08:32 |
| derf | E.g., if you run "groups" it should include sbox in the list. | 08:32 |
| jgombos | that must be the issue.. i didn't actually make it into the group. | 08:33 |
| jgombos | The script may have failed, since I'm on a red hat box | 08:33 |
| jgombos | though it didn't give any error | 08:33 |
| Navi | You have to log in/out for group additions to work. | 08:33 |
| jgombos | so a new shell isn't good enough? | 08:34 |
| derf | It is... but it has to be a login shell. | 08:34 |
| derf | Try su - <your username> | 08:35 |
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| jgombos | i'm in | 08:36 |
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| Soopaman | goodness, why am i having such a hard time getting more than just the base sdk environment up | 08:56 |
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| Navi | Well, it's not ment for everyone. | 09:15 |
| Navi | s/ment/meant/ | 09:25 |
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| Smak_ | I am using gentoo, and noticed the INSTALL.TXT file for installing maemo includes quite a few scratchbox components. Doean anyone know if the standard ebuild for scratchbox contains all that I will be needing? | 09:49 |
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| Smak_ | /j #Gentoo | 10:12 |
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| Zic | where can I find a release of GPE PIM for OS2008 ? The only one release that I found is for OS2007 … | 10:47 |
| Cptnodegard | use the repos | 10:48 |
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| tubtub | Hi all. Does anyone have a link to a c code example in getting a bluetooth spp connection up? | 11:49 |
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| * T0b0tras wonders what spp is :) | 11:52 | |
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| tubtub | it allows for rs232 emulation over bluetooth. | 11:53 |
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| tubtub | I have seen bluez stack stuff but I am still not really with it in how to implement it. | 11:55 |
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| jku | tubtub, have you seen the python-dbus example: http://wiki.bluez.org/wiki/HOWTO/SerialConnections ? | 12:03 |
| jku | shouldn't be too hard to do the same in C (if dbus is acceptable) | 12:04 |
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| tubtub | thanks, jku. I suppose I am looking to get something going that brings up a window on my n810 of the available devices and allows the user to choose one. Then it will do the binding, etc and connect to that port. | 12:05 |
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| michele_ | hello | 12:07 |
| michele_ | I think I have a problem | 12:07 |
| michele_ | the tablet is not charging anymore | 12:07 |
| michele_ | it says "chargin" | 12:07 |
| tubtub | thanks, though. Looking around the wiki a bit more I have found a starter. cheer jku | 12:07 |
| michele_ | it does the "booiing" | 12:08 |
| michele_ | the battery applet throbs | 12:08 |
| michele_ | but it doesn't charge | 12:08 |
| michele_ | just at the right moment when I need it for the first time for a travel! | 12:09 |
| michele_ | now I am trying with a different (350mA) charger | 12:10 |
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| tubtub | has anyone got flash working youtube in any decent fashion. I tried it a bit but it seems the n810 isn't that great. Is there any optimisations or is it more fundamental a problem? | 12:12 |
| tubtub | michele, how do you know it isnt charging? | 12:12 |
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| michele_ | tubtub: it says "less than an hour remaining" | 12:15 |
| tubtub | after a while? | 12:15 |
| tubtub | charging all night kinda thing? | 12:15 |
| tubtub | michele: Have you tried powering down, removing the battery for a while, putting it all back together, booting and seeing if it charges? | 12:17 |
| michele_ | yes | 12:17 |
| michele_ | trying that right now | 12:17 |
| michele_ | besides, anyone here from barcelona? I'm coming there tomorrow :) | 12:18 |
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| ulises | morning all | 12:21 |
| tubtub | ulises: morning | 12:21 |
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| ulises | hey tubtub | 12:23 |
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| michele_ | ok I think it's this damned tiny plug | 12:36 |
| michele_ | I hat it | 12:36 |
| michele_ | the other charger works, but is obviously SLOW | 12:36 |
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| ulises | anybody got a full debian running inside scratchbox? | 12:55 |
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| tubtub | michele: Well least you got it working. My adapter packed up the first day I bought my n810. I luckily had a spare but I am still trying to get Nokia to replace it a month later | 13:03 |
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| tubtub | ulises: Why you want a full debian running inside scratchbox? | 13:04 |
| ulises | trying to compile some stuff for the IT | 13:05 |
| ulises | and i have sid running on it | 13:05 |
| ulises | so if I compile with maemo sdk it won't run on it (wrong libs, etc.) | 13:05 |
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| tubtub | are you looking to compile for x86? | 13:06 |
| jku | ulises, like what libs? | 13:06 |
| ulises | looking to compile for armel | 13:07 |
| ulises | not sure which libs | 13:07 |
| ulises | trying to build e17 | 13:07 |
| ulises | the issue is that I'm running sid on it | 13:07 |
| ulises | therefore the clash in the dependencies | 13:07 |
| jku | ah, you're running debian on the device | 13:08 |
| ulises | yes | 13:08 |
| BugBlue | nice | 13:10 |
| tubtub | how did you get Debian running on it and can I ask why, ulises? | 13:10 |
| ulises | but debian is not really cooperating inside scratchbox | 13:10 |
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| ulises | why: because it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling | 13:11 |
| ulises | how: debootstrap | 13:11 |
| ulises | no, seriously | 13:11 |
| ulises | johnx has a nice explanation for why you'd want debian on your it | 13:11 |
| ulises | probably the best point would be that there's loads of apps already compiled | 13:11 |
| ulises | and ready to use | 13:11 |
| ulises | you can switch desktops as you desire | 13:11 |
| ulises | etc etc | 13:11 |
| tubtub | does it work nice? | 13:12 |
| BugBlue | the N810 with garnet VM is faster than an iphone with palm emulator... 542% (of a palm IIIc) against 423% | 13:12 |
| BugBlue | http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/23/palm-emulated-on-the-iphone-finally-we-can-leave-that-iiic-at-h/ | 13:12 |
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| ulises | yes | 13:12 |
| ulises | it's actually quite responsive | 13:12 |
| ulises | I ran e16 on it | 13:12 |
| tubtub | have any links to installation? | 13:12 |
| ulises | and it's quite fast | 13:12 |
| ulises | hang a sec | 13:13 |
| ulises | *hang on | 13:13 |
| jku | how do the debian guys do it? do they compile natively on armel? must take a while... | 13:13 |
| ulises | http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian | 13:13 |
| ulises | probably cross-compile | 13:13 |
| tubtub | cheers | 13:13 |
| ulises | np | 13:13 |
| ulises | and then test | 13:13 |
| ulises | imagine compiling debian on your it | 13:13 |
| ulises | *all* the packages | 13:14 |
| ulises | :D | 13:14 |
| tubtub | might be what my lazy Sunday has been looking for...lol | 13:14 |
| ulises | hehe | 13:14 |
| BugBlue | my treo is only 468% :-( | 13:14 |
| jku | and monday and tuesday... | 13:14 |
| ulises | if you're a masochist then I'd say you try it | 13:14 |
| ulises | fairly easy | 13:14 |
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| tubtub | well I get the fuzzy feeling part but I am wondering if I should bother really. It says that sound doesnt work at the moment... | 13:17 |
| tubtub | I kinda like my podcasts, internet radio, mp3 playing kinda stuff | 13:18 |
| ulises | ah | 13:18 |
| ulises | well | 13:18 |
| tubtub | just wish you tube worked properly, I think that is the only down side at the moment | 13:18 |
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| ulises | installing debian doesn't mean you get rid of your original OS | 13:18 |
| ulises | you can boot either | 13:18 |
| ulises | when it's podcast time, you boot into your ITOS | 13:19 |
| ulises | when it's happy-hacking time | 13:19 |
| ulises | you boot into your debian | 13:19 |
| tubtub | oh right, so nice little boot menu thing going on. Hmm...maybe I should by a miniSD card for this then. That way I can keep my system as it | 13:20 |
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| ulises | exactly | 13:21 |
| tubtub | well sorry can't help you with your probs...I take it you have looked to change the /etc/apt/sources.lst file to update the install and see if it doesnt break the system | 13:22 |
| tubtub | ? | 13:22 |
| ulises | yes | 13:24 |
| ulises | a couple of times | 13:24 |
| ulises | ;) | 13:24 |
| tubtub | lol | 13:24 |
| ulises | it's not easy to upgrade debian inside scratchbox | 13:25 |
| ulises | I'm sure there's some obscure docs around | 13:25 |
| ulises | just couldn't find them | 13:25 |
| tubtub | hmm...does e17 have a list of libs it requires? | 13:25 |
| tubtub | maybe you need to compile them manually... | 13:25 |
| ulises | well | 13:26 |
| ulises | before going about that | 13:26 |
| ulises | I need to update the system | 13:26 |
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| ulises | and in order to do so | 13:26 |
| ulises | you have to force many things | 13:26 |
| ulises | and hack it so it finishes | 13:26 |
| ulises | one way or the other | 13:26 |
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| ulises | resulting in a system somewhat not trustworthy | 13:26 |
| ulises | if you catch my drift | 13:26 |
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| tubtub | in http://wiki.bluez.org/wiki/HOWTO/DiscoveringDevice, the C code examples says to build with gliba-genmarshal... Anyone know how I do this? | 13:40 |
| tubtub | <correction, doh> glib-genmarshal... | 13:40 |
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| jku | tubtub, yeah, wait a sec | 13:47 |
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| jku | tubtub, if you have "non-standard" signal signature you need to generate them with glib-genmarshal | 13:49 |
| jku | here is an example from Makefile.am: | 13:49 |
| jku | geoclue-marshal.h: geoclue-marshal.list $(GLIB_GENMARSHAL) | 13:50 |
| jku | $(GLIB_GENMARSHAL) $< --header --prefix=geoclue_marshal > $@ | 13:51 |
| jku | that's for the marshal headers | 13:51 |
| jku | the same thing with --body will create the actual marshaller .c file | 13:52 |
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| jku | (and geoclue_ is just my projects namespace, you can drop/change that) | 13:53 |
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| tubtub | jku: thanks. I am still reading up on using the auto tools. I am coming from 8bit assmbly/c coding so all this autoconf stuff is quite new. The training docs on Maemo are really great though. I am working through them still | 13:54 |
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| jku | you can use glib-genmarshal by hand of course | 13:55 |
| jku | .. to get the hang of it | 13:55 |
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| jku | glib-genmarshal your_marshal_list_file --header | 13:56 |
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| tubtub | well I did that manuall and that worked...very cool. You are a superstar jku | 14:00 |
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| GNUoso | Hi | 14:54 |
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| tubtub | hi GNUoso | 14:54 |
| ulises | hey GNUoso | 14:55 |
| GNUoso | :) | 14:56 |
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| tripolo | hi | 15:03 |
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| tripolo | any speak spanish help me please | 15:04 |
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| ulises | I speak spanish | 15:05 |
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| tripolo | podemos hablar en privado o por aqui mismo? | 15:07 |
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| tripolo | ulises mandame un privado please | 15:08 |
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| |tbb| | is it possible to use an nxxx as boot device for loading probably a nix based live cd | 15:24 |
| johnx | boot your desktop off your Nxxx you mean? | 15:24 |
| johnx | that's a fun idea! :D | 15:24 |
| |tbb| | yeah | 15:24 |
| johnx | maybe | 15:24 |
| jku | why not, if the desktop boots off usb | 15:25 |
| jku | from usb, even | 15:25 |
| johnx | it shows up as a card reader. and my desktop seems happy to boot off of my *real* card reader | 15:25 |
| |tbb| | http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/ seen that and i was thinking about that | 15:25 |
| johnx | it depends on how flexible your BIOS is about what it considers a bootable device, but it might work | 15:25 |
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| jku | I'm guessing any modern (<3 yrs old) machine should be able to do it | 15:26 |
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| * johnx has seen too many crappy BIOSes to be that optimistic... | 15:27 | |
| |tbb| | im not having a nix live-cd always with me so it would be nice to have the ability to help someone to recover data or fixing problems just when i attach my n8x0 to his desktop machine, i guess the ppl will make big eyes when they see that ;) | 15:29 |
| jku | booting from a usb disk has become quite common now as many machines do not have cd drives... | 15:29 |
| johnx | jku, yes...I've noticed that much, but often the implementation in the BIOS is flakey/picky about what it will boot and how it will try to boot it | 15:30 |
| jku | you may be right | 15:30 |
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| jku | Just counted, I have three computers and five other devices running some kind of linux here and only one has a cd drive | 15:31 |
| johnx | 2/5 here :) | 15:32 |
| felipec | how many people here speak Spanish? enough for a #maemo-es maybe? | 15:34 |
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| johnx | Yo hablo un pococita :) | 15:34 |
| * johnx dusts off his Spanish, stares at the rusty bits O_o | 15:34 | |
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| _berto_ | Yo hablo un poquito de espaniol | 15:36 |
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| LoCusF | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=147027&postcount=4 <- here is the synergy package if someone needs it | 15:45 |
| johnx | cool! I was just reading that thread, right before you posted :D | 15:46 |
| LoCusF | heheheh | 15:46 |
| johnx | Does that give you a visible mouse cursor as well? | 15:46 |
| melmoth | grumble.. | 15:47 |
| johnx | (as long as .debs appear when I view a thread I might as well ask...) | 15:47 |
| melmoth | i think gettext is driving me mad. Anybody understand why some entry are flagged as 'fuzzy' with msgmerge, and not other ? | 15:47 |
| LoCusF | johnx: nope | 15:48 |
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| michele_ | melmoth: they are entries for which msgmerge "guessed" the match, usually it's because the msgid is slightly changed | 15:49 |
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| LoCusF | johnx: I think there is a way to make it visible by creating the mouse cursor icon to the X-server | 15:49 |
| melmoth | michele_: the thing is, i do not know why, but all those lines are not taken care of then in gettext. | 15:51 |
| melmoth | the other sentences are translated ok. | 15:51 |
| melmoth | so i have to rebuild the whole pot/translate again in po and turns in po each time i make a change . | 15:51 |
| melmoth | i meant turns in mo. | 15:52 |
| johnx | LoCusF, yeah. I heard mumblings about that. I was just curious :) | 15:52 |
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| LoCusF | johnx: ok :) | 15:58 |
| LoCusF | johnx: I'll search the thread and cook up a deb with mouse cursor as well | 15:58 |
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| johnx | wow! cool | 16:00 |
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| LoCusF | johnx: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=147027&postcount=4 | 16:16 |
| lcuk_3 | is there a command to lock my 810 programmatically instead of reaching for the slider? i have it in a cradle and only have to get it out to lock it at the end of day | 16:17 |
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| johnx | Thanks LoCusF. I'll install that tomorrow. I need some sleep for now O_o | 16:19 |
| LoCusF | johnx: ok cool :) | 16:19 |
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| johnx | lcuk_3, shot in the dark: maybe try listening with dbus-monitor --system as you hit the slider to see what's being sent? (Assuming it sends a dbus message...) | 16:20 |
| * johnx sleeps | 16:21 | |
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| Alendit_ | hey | 16:29 |
| Alendit_ | need some help on http headers of microb | 16:30 |
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| Alendit_ | does anyone know a way to change them? | 16:30 |
| Alendit_ | i tried a firefox extension (modify headers) but i can't get it working | 16:30 |
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| Alendit_ | i see it in microb extension manager und enable it but it just don't work | 16:31 |
| Alendit_ | *doesn't | 16:31 |
| zoran | could you elaborate a little bit more? | 16:32 |
| zoran | http headers are of matter to browser only | 16:32 |
| zoran | html tags? | 16:33 |
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| Alendit_ | oops, sry, re | 16:36 |
| Alendit_ | zoran, i have a proxy that filters all requestes but those that have x-wap-profile | 16:37 |
| aquarius- | hello there... how many wifi channels are supported in maemo? i'm aware that there are only 11 channels available in the US but up to 13 in Europe (14 in some countries) | 16:37 |
| zoran | Alendit_, I misunderstood your post, sorry! | 16:38 |
| zoran | so, you need headers that say "hi, I'm regular user, please let me go!"? | 16:39 |
| Alendit_ | yes, kinda of | 16:40 |
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| Alendit_ | my header should say 'hi, i am regular cell phone, let me go' | 16:40 |
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| Alendit_ | zoran, the stupid thing is: this filter is to prevent desktops and laptops to use this proxy...with a desktop i would have no problem go through it... | 16:41 |
| zoran | to authenticate and change some keys? | 16:41 |
| Alendit_ | no, to get internet access | 16:42 |
| Alendit_ | its wap flatrate | 16:42 |
| zoran | I recall privoxy as first aid | 16:42 |
| Alendit_ | i though about that | 16:42 |
| zoran | all inside the node should be transparent, only that app matters | 16:42 |
| Alendit_ | but i don't know how i can add header i privoxy | 16:42 |
| zoran | it is just another proxy | 16:43 |
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| zoran | let it talk to your proxy | 16:43 |
| zoran | what protocol it uses at all? | 16:43 |
| Alendit_ | http | 16:43 |
| zoran | in other words: is it packet or application firewall? | 16:43 |
| Alendit_ | packet | 16:44 |
| zoran | hm | 16:44 |
| zoran | ftp via browser goes out? | 16:44 |
| Alendit_ | it reads 2 lines from http header: user agent and uaprof | 16:44 |
| zoran | k, some tunnel should do the thing | 16:44 |
| Alendit_ | is those are cell-phone-like it let it through | 16:44 |
| Alendit_ | yeah, i know, but for a tunnel i need a server that is permanently online | 16:45 |
| zoran | so, some packet injector would change the headers proxy sees | 16:45 |
| Alendit_ | and it would be kind of too much overhead | 16:45 |
| Alendit_ | it just one line ^^ | 16:45 |
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| zoran | some kind of nat? | 16:46 |
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| Alendit_ | i think it would be easier to patch microb code... | 16:46 |
| Alendit_ | or port modify headers to microb | 16:46 |
| zoran | one question: phone should be connected with wifi interface? | 16:46 |
| Alendit_ | no, with bluetooth | 16:47 |
| Alendit_ | dun bluetooth to cell phone | 16:47 |
| zoran | aha | 16:47 |
| jott | why not just use privoxy? you get adblocking for free ;) | 16:47 |
| zoran | bluetooth has nothing to firewall! | 16:47 |
| Alendit_ | i can't find it for chinook | 16:47 |
| Alendit_ | forget bluetooth, it just a dun connect to modem | 16:48 |
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| zoran | hydra or alike could tunnel first/whatever to the firewall | 16:48 |
| zoran | some python code would be even better on nokia | 16:49 |
| zoran | or perl | 16:49 |
| Alendit_ | i need a server to tunnel | 16:49 |
| Alendit_ | well, a pc where the tunnel goes | 16:50 |
| zoran | what firewall says to the browser? | 16:50 |
| Alendit_ | no idea ^^ | 16:50 |
| zoran | any error message? | 16:50 |
| Alendit_ | no | 16:50 |
| Alendit_ | just no response | 16:50 |
| zoran | just hangs? | 16:50 |
| Alendit_ | yes | 16:50 |
| Alendit_ | can you give me a link to privoxy for chinook | 16:50 |
| zoran | and you have ip address and resolv.conf shows something? | 16:51 |
| jott | Alendit_: gronmayer.com/it has it | 16:51 |
| zoran | I found provoxy for gregale | 16:51 |
| Pretoriano | hi! anyone can help me compiling an app in scratchbox? | 16:51 |
| Alendit_ | it would be so much neater just to port modify headers to microb... ^^ | 16:52 |
| |tbb| | anyone got ubuntu installed? | 16:52 |
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| |tbb| | got a problem a friend burns a svcd for me with k3b, but i cant play it on my ubuntu feisty, i can read the content (only the directory structure), but nothing else. any idea whats wrong? | 16:52 |
| zoran | it was not made as bootable, probably | 16:53 |
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| Alendit_ | svcd? bootable? ^^ | 16:53 |
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| Alendit_ | | tbb | try it http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Gutsy#How_To_Add_DVD_Playback_Capability | 16:54 |
| zoran | yeah, you are right | 16:54 |
| Alendit_ | |tbb| svcd uses the same codec as dvd i think | 16:54 |
| Alendit_ | or try vlc | 16:54 |
| Alendit_ | jott, couldn't find it there | 16:54 |
| Alendit_ | zoran, where do you have your privoxy from? | 16:55 |
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| jott | Alendit_: it's in the eko one repository maybe you made a typo :P (not tested if it works with os08 but i guess it should) | 16:55 |
| zoran | maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006 | 16:56 |
| zoran | 770 and gregale | 16:56 |
| jott | http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/privoxy_3.0.6-2_armel.deb | 16:56 |
| Alendit_ | 2006? sure it works on 2008? | 16:56 |
| zoran | no | 16:56 |
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| zoran | I still have no 810 or similar | 16:57 |
| zoran | jott points to the right direction | 16:57 |
| Alendit_ | me neigher, running 2008 on n800 | 16:57 |
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| jott | Alendit_: just try it.. it's not using hildon etc.. | 16:57 |
| jott | or just compile it ;) | 16:57 |
| Alendit_ | i guess, i've got no other choise | 16:57 |
| Alendit_ | i works ^^ | 16:57 |
| Alendit_ | now, configuration | 16:58 |
| Alendit_ | where can i insert a http header line? | 16:58 |
| jott | it's +hide-user-agent{} or something like this | 16:58 |
| zoran | btw, someone found application manager unreadable after last few days' update | 16:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What updates, zoran? | 17:00 |
| zoran | like apt-get | 17:00 |
| zoran | in red pill mode | 17:00 |
| zoran | few new apps have so loooooooooooooong naaaaaaaaaaaaaames | 17:00 |
| jku | long version, more likely | 17:00 |
| zoran | manager formats from right to the left | 17:01 |
| zoran | so, all is seen except the very name | 17:01 |
| |tbb| | aendit: thx, but this might not be the problem. because i cant even copy the content (for example the mpg file which stays under mpeg folder) of the cd | 17:01 |
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| |tbb| | had installed the dvd thing anyway | 17:01 |
| zoran | regarding names, libfaad2 and libmp4 etc | 17:01 |
| zoran | the originator should change those names | 17:02 |
| Alendit_ | on what port do privoxy running by default? | 17:02 |
| zoran | looks thet those files are in extras! | 17:03 |
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| Alendit_ | 8118 | 17:03 |
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| magicrobotmonkey | when i try to run yt-viewer it says cant find module gnome.gconf | 17:05 |
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| lcuk | you need to convince the underpant gnomes to return to their hiding place inside your nokia | 17:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | <_< | 17:06 |
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| Alendit_ | how can i define an action in default.action that matches all urls? | 17:33 |
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| Alendit_ | i really don't get it...why is { +add-header {Profile: http://wap.sonyericsson.com/UAprof/P800R102.xml} } an invalid line? | 17:42 |
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| jott | maybe he does not like the space "add-header {" ?! hmm | 17:48 |
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| Alendit_ | yeah, that was it | 17:50 |
| Alendit_ | i spent 30 min looking for error -.- | 17:50 |
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| jott | who want's to try randr based rotation support for os2008 (n8x0 only)? (not really for the faint of heart but works nice here) | 18:16 |
| jott | (preliminary) instructions: http://sse2.net/rotate/ | 18:17 |
| lcuk | jott, this is full hildon rotation for the entire desktop, or just extensions to allow an app to choose? (i know it can be enabled already at some level) | 18:18 |
| jott | lcuk: for the entire desktop | 18:19 |
| lcuk | cool :) though i think it will be more suited to the 800 - the 810 has a definate prefered orientation | 18:19 |
| jott | lcuk: not with a closed keyboard :) | 18:20 |
| lcuk | unless you can make a software hack to rotate the keyboard ;) | 18:20 |
| jott | i use it on a n810. as i also wrote a status bar applet it's easy to rotate when desired ;) | 18:20 |
| lcuk | the lcd supports all types of rotation (0,90,180,270) have you got the desktop working at 90? | 18:21 |
| jott | lcuk: that was the main point to do so :) | 18:21 |
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| lcuk | i thought daniel stone said there were too many hard coded 800*480 figures in the code? | 18:22 |
| jott | sure there are some dialogs etc.. | 18:22 |
| jott | it's not for "regular" use | 18:22 |
| jott | but for browsing etc. its nice | 18:22 |
| lcuk | i bet - i read books at 90, and use vnc at 90 and it fits better | 18:22 |
| jott | fbreader should be a bit faster with hardware rotation :) | 18:24 |
| lcuk | fbreader is just slow anyway - im working through the options to allow proper scrolling and refresh rates | 18:24 |
| lcuk | i hate the way you see the page refresh | 18:24 |
| lcuk | its like a multimedia wipe effect you see on crappy ppts | 18:25 |
| jott | yeah i guess the font rendering is a bit slow with it.. | 18:25 |
| jott | but it's not *that* slow here at least | 18:25 |
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| lcuk | it feels awful - its like a step down from my old pda | 18:26 |
| lcuk | sure, the text *looks* great, but it renders like crap | 18:26 |
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| jott | with hardware rotation enabled i can't see any sweeping effects ;p | 18:27 |
| lcuk | does the app know its working with a 480*800 screen though, or is it rendering as usual then having it rotated and scaled? | 18:28 |
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| jott | lcuk: it's just a normal x window so it gets a resize event when screen is rotated | 18:29 |
| lcuk | nice :) ive saved a link and will investigate further in the coming days - its an area of interest | 18:30 |
| jott | yeah feedback would be nice.. i need to prepare an upstream patch anyway.. | 18:30 |
| lcuk | i was considering doing the rotation purely at the app level (but still using the lcd to do the lifting) but if it can be gotten into the kernel its job is done | 18:30 |
| jott | yeah well the rotation support is in the kernel git (though with some bugs) but i doubt we'll see it with an official os2008 upgrade.. | 18:31 |
| jott | anyway.. who needs official releases :P | 18:32 |
| lcuk | right, that does it - ive never tried anything with linux flashing or anything but i think this will be worth it. im gonna see how far i get with this, just gonna backup 1st... | 18:34 |
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| jott | yeah actually there should be no risk but a backup is always wise :) | 18:35 |
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| lcuk | good idea to backup anyway. if i leave the backup file on mmc2 the flashing process never touches it does it? | 18:36 |
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| jott | nope | 18:36 |
| jott | it should be safe.. | 18:37 |
| lcuk | but i will lose any modifications i have made to other parts of the filesystem - like i have added desktop items and shortcuts and things in /usr/bin | 18:37 |
| lcuk | or is this not the same as a full system reflash | 18:37 |
| jott | only if you do a complete reflash.. | 18:37 |
| jott | it just changes the kernel and then there is a package for Xomap.. | 18:37 |
| fysa | lcuk | 18:37 |
| fysa | make ~/bin | 18:37 |
| fysa | and add that to your $PATH | 18:38 |
| jott | there should be no effect to any other places.. | 18:38 |
| lcuk | just getting it straight in my head really | 18:38 |
| fysa | a good way to not lose things when updating a distro? :) | 18:38 |
| jott | and if you use the --boot option the kernel will not even be flashed, just booted once | 18:38 |
| lcuk | fysa, ~/bin where does ~ point to (im still feeling my way) | 18:38 |
| fysa | $HOME | 18:38 |
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| fysa | /home/user/bin | 18:38 |
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| jott | (can't tell about the windows version as i never used it) | 18:39 |
| fysa | PATH=$PATH:$HOME/bin | 18:39 |
| fysa | or something like that. | 18:39 |
| lcuk | ahhh right - that makes it more logical - then my stuff doesnt get in the way of other things, i was just following where i had seen other apps being places | 18:39 |
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| lcuk | so why is there a /usr/ and a /home/user/ folders. does the first usr mean user installed apps and the other mean the actual logged in user? | 18:42 |
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| truls | lcuk: yes | 18:43 |
| truls | lcuk: user is the default username | 18:43 |
| truls | and /home/user is the users directory | 18:43 |
| lcuk | and that is included in the default backup, or if i wanted to rsync it out i could just restore it later | 18:44 |
| * lcuk reads "/home/user" as "c:\documents and settings\gary" | 18:45 | |
| truls | exactly | 18:45 |
| jott | more "c:\documents and settings\user" | 18:46 |
| truls | heh | 18:46 |
| jott | it's just that the os2008 default user is called "user" :) | 18:46 |
| lcuk | ahhhh - but on my 810 the username is actually "user" - if it was gary then the path would be /home/gary/ | 18:46 |
| jott | yes ;) | 18:46 |
| lcuk | w000t i might actually be starting to get it | 18:46 |
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| lcuk | i should have done all this back in '98 when my amiga died, then i wouldnt have any of this windows rot in the way | 18:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, lcuk is such a Windows user. :P | 18:49 |
| lcuk | its kept me in a well paid job for a few years so i am happy. now ive stumped up the cash for this its just a bit of untraining thats needed | 18:50 |
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| jott | GeneralAntilles: want to try the rotation support? http://sse2.net/rotate/ ? :) | 18:53 |
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| lcuk | jott, does the xomap update work even if i dont have the rotated kernel in use - as in, can i install the xomap before i try the kernel it needs to do the switching, or can it only be installed with the rotated kernel in use | 19:03 |
| jott | hmm.. i *think* it should work without... let me try.. | 19:04 |
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| lcuk | im only pondering because if i do it all first, then *try* the kernel, will my system still be stable back on the normal kernel after a reboot | 19:04 |
| jott | yeah it works with the stock kernel.. | 19:05 |
| jott | if you rotate then it get's a bit strange though ;P | 19:05 |
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| lcuk | thats ok, one other thing - i am sure my kernel is meant to be rx-44 not 34. i might be wrong but is there someway i can find out | 19:07 |
| jott | hm indeed.. | 19:07 |
| jott | they should be the same | 19:07 |
| lcuk | isnt the difference regional encoding? | 19:08 |
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| jott | hm? where? in the kernel?! | 19:08 |
| jott | rx-34/rx-44 is just the codename for n800/n810 | 19:09 |
| lcuk | ahhhh - i have only needed to know when looking at the keyboard maps | 19:09 |
| lcuk | Nokia-N810-50-2:~# /usr/bin/osso-product-info | 19:11 |
| lcuk | OSSO_PRODUCT_HARDWARE='RX-44' | 19:11 |
| lcuk | OSSO_PRODUCT_NAME='N810' | 19:11 |
| lcuk | and more info, but im not gonna flood | 19:11 |
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| jott | lcuk: uname -a tells you about the running kernel | 19:14 |
| lcuk | but it doesnt tell me about the rx-34/rx-44 thing ;) | 19:14 |
| Alendit_ | if someone wants to know - i get it working!!! | 19:14 |
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| Alendit_ | that thing with wap | 19:14 |
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| jott | lcuk: because there is no difference in the kernel | 19:15 |
| Alendit_ | i had to use profile AND x-wap-profile headers... | 19:15 |
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| jott | Alendit_: which provider? ;) | 19:15 |
| Alendit_ | o2 germany | 19:15 |
| lcuk | but wont my device start to differentiate itself as an rx-34? | 19:15 |
| Alendit_ | 5 euro wap flat | 19:15 |
| elb | hardware rotation for fbreader would indeed be nice | 19:16 |
| * lcuk would hate to lose his keyboard because of an off by 10 error ;) | 19:16 | |
| elb | I'm not clear on why its rotated blit takes so long | 19:16 |
| jott | elb: http://sse2.net/rotate/ ;) | 19:16 |
| lcuk | elb, its just slow as a frozen pizza | 19:16 |
| lcuk | its not the actual speed - its the fact you see it drawing | 19:16 |
| elb | jott: yes, I'm already there, no need to spam the link | 19:16 |
| jott | lcuk: it's probably somewhere in /sys .. but still you do not need an other kernel.. | 19:17 |
| jott | elb: sorry :P | 19:17 |
| elb | lcuk: right -- as I said, I don't know why its blit takes so long | 19:17 |
| jott | maybe he transforms the screen content with a floating point matrix :P | 19:18 |
| elb | I think it would probably seem faster if it performed the rotation and blitted all at once, but it's rendering and then performing the rotation directly into the window | 19:18 |
| elb | (it might actually *be* faster, too, due to fewer server roundtrips -- but I'm not willing to make that claim without looking) | 19:18 |
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| lcuk | it appears as though the rotation is enablable on a per window basis and so if the correct switches can be triggered it should just be automatic | 19:20 |
| lcuk | fbreader shouldnt even have to think about rotating anything | 19:20 |
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| elb | well, the real benefit is hardware rotation | 19:22 |
| elb | regardless of how it gets there :-) | 19:23 |
| lcuk | 100% | 19:23 |
| jott | or efficient font rendering :) | 19:23 |
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| elb | well, yes -- if the server had efficient rotated font rendering, then I wouldn't care if it could rotate the display ;-) | 19:24 |
| derf | jott: Maemo-mapper does its rotation with a floating point matrix... and it's not that slow. | 19:24 |
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| lcuk | wouldnt you just need to render a bitmap 256*maxfontwidth) before you start and then print each glyph as required (at least thats the route i have at present) | 19:25 |
| jott | derf: well for rotation in 90 degree steps its definitely slower than a transformation matrix .. | 19:25 |
| lcuk | floating point for only fixed point rotations? | 19:26 |
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| lcuk | its not like we can select 63.5deg | 19:26 |
| derf | lcuk: Uh... there's a heck of a lot more than 256 glyphs. | 19:26 |
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| jott | you need intelligent glyph caching.. | 19:26 |
| * lcuk forgets books nowadays have fancy multiple fonts and sizes and crap like that | 19:27 | |
| elb | and not all books are in ASCII ;-) | 19:27 |
| derf | And some of us read Asian languages. | 19:27 |
| lcuk | i suppose i will find out when i start reading more modern sci-fi - im still catching up on nivens books | 19:27 |
| * lcuk is at about 1975 | 19:27 | |
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| derf | Nah... I haven't found much interesting sci-fi past the 80's. | 19:28 |
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| elb | then you haven't read Stephenson ;-) | 19:30 |
| lcuk | dont stephensons books just end quickly withou | 19:30 |
| elb | Stephenson doesn't wrap up all of the side-plots, that's for sure | 19:31 |
| elb | he produces text that's a lot like what one would expect if Robert Pirsig wrote fiction | 19:31 |
| elb | his stories don't exactly have a beginning, middle, and end, except in that there is *some* main plot line which begins near the beginning and ends near the end | 19:32 |
| lcuk | i found that out after reading a couple but didnt like it so moved back in time and started reading asimov and niven | 19:32 |
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| derf | I'm not a big Stephenson fan, but I did say I hadn't found _much_, not that I hadn't found _any_. | 19:32 |
| lcuk | tho asimov is obsessed with his robots | 19:33 |
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| * lcuk wonders why the hell he tied robots into foundation | 19:33 | |
| derf | I'm not here to start a flamewar, so you can assume that whatever you like fits in the small "not much" category. | 19:33 |
| lcuk | lol | 19:33 |
| glass | asimovs short robot stories would work with the robots just defined as persons who act totally within a ruleset.. they're fun stories | 19:34 |
| elb | the heyday of scifi is definitely past | 19:34 |
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| elb | but I don't think the proportion of good scifi to scifi production is particularly worse than it ever has been | 19:34 |
| glass | scifi for sake of scifi is pointless anyways | 19:34 |
| elb | (particularly if you include fantasy in scifi) | 19:34 |
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| lcuk | weekly sci-fi is just like a soap opera with an alternative death scene (spaced instead of leaving the country) | 19:35 |
| derf | elb: Probably, but we haven't had time to forget about all the crap that's recent, yet. | 19:36 |
| elb | derf: haha, now that's likely | 19:36 |
| derf | 20 years from now you'll know what books published now are worth reading. | 19:36 |
| elb | although often very good books never make the cut | 19:36 |
| lcuk | its like wine - it matures with age. and good sci-fi is timeless | 19:36 |
| elb | well, books that an *individual* might find very good | 19:37 |
| elb | because they don't have enough broad appeal | 19:37 |
| derf | elb: Maybe... but unless you're actively running out of books to read, I don't think this is a big problem. | 19:37 |
| lcuk | gtg tea time | 19:37 |
| derf | I have more stuff to read than I'll ever have time for. | 19:37 |
| elb | no, simply a bit unfortunate | 19:37 |
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| Alendit_ | did someone managed to get this new google interface for iphone on nokia? | 19:54 |
| Alendit_ | i had it for some time, than i disapeared, no idea why | 19:54 |
| Navi | New google interface? | 19:56 |
| Alendit_ | j0 | 19:57 |
| Alendit_ | just google 'iphone google' | 19:57 |
| Alendit_ | you'll see it | 19:57 |
| Alendit_ | but it's iphone exlusive | 19:57 |
| Alendit_ | though you can use iphone useragent in order to make google think you're using iphone | 19:57 |
| Navi | I suppose you could change your, yeah. | 19:57 |
| Alendit_ | j0, i did, but now google doen't recognize me as iphone anymore | 19:58 |
| Alendit_ | no idea why | 19:58 |
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| BTobotras | evening | 20:10 |
| ulises | evening BTobotras | 20:10 |
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| GnutoN810 | hi | 20:29 |
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| Zic | in the scratchbox, what metapackage I should install to have a complete Maemo environment ? and not only for compiling/linking/testing ? | 20:46 |
| Zic | I have to test some interface element | 20:46 |
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| jku | Zic what are you missing? | 20:54 |
| Zic | jku: some element of the default OS2008 on a N8*0 hardware | 20:55 |
| Zic | of the interface (applets, emailing, communication, default menus …) | 20:55 |
| jku | the SDK is for compiling linking and testing. It's not OS2008 | 20:55 |
| elb | many of those softwares are not available | 20:55 |
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| Zic | jku: hmm, I do not want to break my OS2008 install on my device for testing a hack | 20:56 |
| jku | what are you trying to test? | 20:56 |
| Zic | I have ever seen screenshots of complete Maemo interface running in a Xephyr environment, in a based Intel proc PC | 20:57 |
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| jku | maemo yes, OS2008 no | 20:57 |
| Zic | ok, thanks for your help :) | 20:57 |
| Zic | I speak about that, for example : http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2007/02/09/hildon-desktop-scalability/ | 20:59 |
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| Zic | is it simply possible, without link between PC and a N8*0 device ? | 20:59 |
| jku | that's hildon desktop on a laptop. I assume it's possible nowadays | 21:01 |
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| jku | Zic, just say what you'd like to do, maybe it is possible... | 21:02 |
| Zic | jku: I like to have a complete Maemo Desktop to test some graphical configuration, like some hack & trick to testing my skill | 21:04 |
| Zic | now, I'm using the scratchbox only for compiling | 21:04 |
| jku | So you can run the desktop in xephyr, what exactly are you missing? | 21:05 |
| Zic | some element like browser, emailing application, Note, player, explorer … I found it in the repository of the scratchbox, but I want to know if it exist a metapackage to install a "default" Hildon Desktop | 21:06 |
| Zic | or if exist a list of packages to install | 21:07 |
| Zic | I know that some parts are closed by Nokia | 21:07 |
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| jku | those are all just programs not parts of the desktop (and yes they are closed) | 21:08 |
| Zic | and in this case, the restricted meta package provided by Nokia repository s useful to me ? | 21:08 |
| jku | it just has libraries | 21:08 |
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| jku | ...if you're referring to the local nokia binary repo | 21:09 |
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| Zic | hmm, ok thanks for your infos | 21:09 |
| jott | Zic: you could try to dpkg-repack packages from the device and transfer them to scratchbox .. but there is no guarantee that those packages will work without further modifications.. | 21:10 |
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| Zic | I'm orienting to a solution to install the maximum of pieces (Desktop & Applications) that are free on the OS2008, manually, I don't care about some piece that are closed, in fact, thanks ;) | 21:12 |
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| jott | Zic: yeah sadly enough nokia is not what you would consider an open source company.. | 21:13 |
| Zic | so, I will use package provided by my distribution | 21:13 |
| Zic | jott: yeah, but it still good work, it's better than a completely closed platform | 21:13 |
| Zic | I think they'll do the same errors with Trolltech's platform (Qtopia), like include some pieces of closed software, sadly … | 21:15 |
| Zic | in their phones | 21:15 |
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| jott | well qtopia is completely open now.. | 21:16 |
| Zic | but Nokia can add some pieces of their proprietary in Qtopia, like they did in Maemo :/ | 21:17 |
| Zic | their proprietary software* | 21:17 |
| jott | sure.. | 21:17 |
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| script | jku: you've got mail | 21:28 |
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| hrw | elo | 21:39 |
| jku | script, haven't got it but I guess what it's about :( | 21:40 |
| jku | script, sorry about that | 21:40 |
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| jku | I sent about 20 bug reports on the same issue this evening and you just slipped in there | 21:40 |
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| script | jku: that's alright ;) | 21:50 |
| script | jku: i was just beginning to compare the two strings byte per bytes and couldn't see the fault ;) | 21:51 |
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| Tu13es | does anyone know were I can get either the gui or cmdline flasher for OS X? | 22:08 |
| Tu13es | there are no links in the wiki | 22:08 |
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| jku | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php | 22:12 |
| jku | Tu13es, bleb.org probably has the unofficial GUI | 22:13 |
| milhouse | quick question: is anyone able to access www.youtube.com? for me it appears to be down | 22:13 |
| milhouse | getting connection timeouts... | 22:13 |
| milhouse | all other sites appear ok | 22:13 |
| jku | milhouse, same here | 22:14 |
| milhouse | wierd eh? | 22:14 |
| milhouse | i wonder if it's scheduled maintenance or DDoS | 22:14 |
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| jku | milhouse, maybe something went horribly wrong: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/080224/world/denmark_media_islam_pakistan_internet_youtube | 22:18 |
| milhouse | funnily enough i was just looking at that on the BBC - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7261727.stm | 22:19 |
| milhouse | and the same thought occurred to me :) | 22:19 |
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| milhouse | Could a DDoS attack by fundamentalists... | 22:20 |
| milhouse | s/Could/Could be/ | 22:20 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: Could be a DDoS attack by fundamentalists... | 22:20 |
| milhouse | or my ISP in London is a Pakistani sympathiser (Zen - based in Rochdale, you never know...) | 22:20 |
| milhouse | er... not London... UK | 22:21 |
| milhouse | I'd have thought it would take a lot of effort to bring down youtube - don't really know how they're setup but would have thought they'd have a pretty resilient infrastructure | 22:22 |
| Tama^2 | Hello | 22:23 |
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| livinded | http://europe.nokia.com/A4680127 shows that the latest version of the firmware is 2.2007.51-3 but I can't find the image on maemo.org, is it hidden somewhere else? | 22:26 |
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| milhouse | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ | 22:28 |
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| Tama^2 | milhouse: are you still there? | 22:37 |
| milhouse | hi | 22:38 |
| Tama^2 | Hi :) | 22:38 |
| Tama^2 | I run some power consumptions tests on my n800 | 22:38 |
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| Tama^2 | because I suspected it was drawing too much power | 22:39 |
| Tama^2 | apparently when sdcards are inserted | 22:39 |
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| Tama^2 | the battery lasts only 1/10th compared to when no sd cards are inserted | 22:39 |
| Tama^2 | it happens even if I umount them | 22:40 |
| Tama^2 | (the tests are run with the screen locked, offline, no metalayer running, no apps, no desktop applets) | 22:40 |
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| milhouse | odd | 22:40 |
| milhouse | before you said you had unmounted them I'd have said you were having a problem with metalayer-crawler | 22:41 |
| milhouse | lasing only 1/10th suggests something is hammering on the CPU and not letting it sleep | 22:42 |
| Tama^2 | yep | 22:42 |
| Tama^2 | same conclusion except the load is 0 | 22:42 |
| milhouse | anything in dmesg? i really don't know what else to suggest | 22:43 |
| jott | http://www.drlinux.it/maemo/battery_consumption.html | 22:43 |
| Tama^2 | yeah that is the *incomplete* tests I ran | 22:43 |
| jott | ah it's yours. :) | 22:44 |
| milhouse | what make of SD cards? | 22:45 |
| Tama^2 | yes I have run MAY more tests but eneded up being frustrated and did not publish them | 22:45 |
| milhouse | I don't have any problems with 4GB and 8GB SDHC Transcend cards | 22:45 |
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| milhouse | From what you are saying, it appears that the presence of SD cards in the slot(s) is the key factor | 22:46 |
| Tama^2 | I have 4: 2xA-Data (16Gb) , 1xA-Data (4Gb), 1x"Nokia" 128Mb | 22:46 |
| Tama^2 | yes that is what seems to emerge from the tests | 22:46 |
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| Tama^2 | BUT the battery monitor is not-so-reliable... | 22:47 |
| milhouse | What's your battery like with the Nokia card? | 22:47 |
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| Tama^2 | I was wondering: is there someone working on the table t @ Nokia that would read and listen and give it an honest thought? | 22:47 |
| milhouse | I ran mine down until it began bleeping | 22:47 |
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| Tama^2 | I have the log for the nokia card test at home, I will dig it out but basically I get the same results | 22:49 |
| Tama^2 | 4% per hour when 2 cards (of any kind are connected) | 22:49 |
| Tama^2 | 2% per hour when 1 card is connected | 22:49 |
| Tama^2 | 0.2% when no sd card is inserted | 22:49 |
| milhouse | stock kernel? | 22:50 |
| milhouse | have you tried Philip Langdales modified kernel? | 22:50 |
| Tama^2 | yes | 22:50 |
| Tama^2 | then tried the modified kernel to get extra logging about mmcs | 22:50 |
| milhouse | but no difference in power consumption between either kernel? | 22:50 |
| Tama^2 | no difference | 22:50 |
| milhouse | ok... i suppose that's good | 22:50 |
| milhouse | i don't know what else could be the problem... unless it's a hardware issue? | 22:51 |
| Tama^2 | the extra logging tells me that both cards go to power mode 3 when the tablet is idle | 22:51 |
| sp3000 | have you tried with a completely unmodified setup, say, with no files on cards to quiet down the crawler? | 22:52 |
| sp3000 | no weird rd flags etc | 22:52 |
| Tama^2 | the crawler was stopped altogether | 22:53 |
| milhouse | r&d mode enabled might use a tad more power, or so it's claimed | 22:53 |
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| Tama^2 | r&d mode is not enabled | 22:53 |
| milhouse | and the filesystems on the cards are all ok? no corruption? | 22:53 |
| Tama^2 | (and the cards were unmounted anyway) | 22:54 |
| sp3000 | sure, but any random change could onceivably have any random effect | 22:54 |
| milhouse | yeah, but still... the tablets do silly things at times so just asking :) | 22:54 |
| sp3000 | not necessarily in the expected direction | 22:54 |
| Tama^2 | they are fine (I checked them) but they are umounted :) | 22:54 |
| Tama^2 | xD | 22:54 |
| Tama^2 | they have a life on their own | 22:54 |
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| milhouse | probably worth posting in the dev mailing list and hoping that someone like igor picks it up | 22:55 |
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| Tama^2 | this one? maemo-developers@maemo.org | 22:56 |
| milhouse | yes | 22:56 |
| Tama^2 | great, thanks | 22:57 |
| milhouse | np | 22:57 |
| sp3000 | what sort of frequency do you have on the logging, and does the amount depend on the amount of cards? | 22:57 |
| Tama^2 | you mean: power consumption logging? | 22:58 |
| Tama^2 | I log the battery charge every 60 minutes | 22:58 |
| sp3000 | any activity that might occur frequently :) | 22:58 |
| sp3000 | what fs? | 22:58 |
| sp3000 | oh, yeah, unmounted | 22:59 |
| Tama^2 | :) | 22:59 |
| Tama^2 | FAT anyway | 22:59 |
| Tama^2 | an unrelated an possibly harmless thing I see in dmesg whenver I boot or whenever I insert a card is an error when accessing the card the first time. | 23:00 |
| Tama^2 | it happens with all cards (the original one as well) | 23:00 |
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| hrw | ~curse nokia for not packing HH-12 with n810 | 23:04 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia for not packing HH-12 with n810 ! | 23:04 |
| * sp3000 hands infobot a comma | 23:04 | |
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| Navi | I'm not a fan of suction holders | 23:05 |
| Navi | I prefer real mounts | 23:05 |
| Tama^2 | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2637#c16 | 23:05 |
| Tama^2 | Navi: real man prefer real mounts? | 23:06 |
| Tama^2 | xD | 23:06 |
| sp3000 | Tama^2: I guess my instinct would be to get a default-stock-everything baseline, like flash and have relatively blank cards and no logging and see if it lasts over the 25h or so a 4% of total / h would give you | 23:06 |
| Navi | Tama^2, of course, how else can you hold it steady? | 23:06 |
| sp3000 | to rule out anything doing something counterintuitively silly | 23:07 |
| Navi | Suction cups can only hold it up for so long, but with my reckless driving, it falls down. | 23:07 |
| Navi | s/, but w/. W/ | 23:07 |
| infobot | Navi meant: Suction cups can only hold it up for so long. With my reckless driving, it falls down. | 23:07 |
| Tama^2 | navi: where do you live? if I may | 23:08 |
| Navi | Texas, USA. | 23:08 |
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| Tama^2 | sp3000: I will run more tests when I have time and feel inspired ;) | 23:08 |
| * sp3000 grumbles at the commenter in that bug | 23:08 | |
| Tama^2 | OK, /me dial the authorities to report Navi U,u | 23:08 |
| Navi | /o\ | 23:09 |
| milhouse | Tama^2 - it probably would be worth flashing with the last OS 2007 and testing that to try and rule out hardware | 23:09 |
| milhouse | if you have no probs with 2007, but have a problem with 2008, then perhaps someone can start narrowing down where the change occurred | 23:09 |
| Tama^2 | flashing again? noooooooooooooooes xD | 23:09 |
| Tama^2 | OK, I will do that | 23:10 |
| milhouse | i know... :( | 23:10 |
| Tama^2 | is the image available on maemo or do I have to dig it up form Nokia's site? | 23:10 |
| milhouse | but if you're going to be doing tests where you re-flash with 2008 from scratch, it shouldn't make much difference if you also reflash with 2007 | 23:10 |
| sp3000 | everything's on tablets-dev | 23:10 |
| milhouse | should be here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php | 23:11 |
| sp3000 | (for mixing up symptoms from an issue not experienced as a regression with a bug clearly labeled as a regression) | 23:11 |
| milhouse | Full path: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php?f=RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.38-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 23:11 |
| livinded | what's the difference between miniSD and miniSDHC? | 23:11 |
| sp3000 | HC | 23:12 |
| sp3000 | :P | 23:12 |
| sp3000 | "high capacity" | 23:12 |
| Navi | The let. . . oh, you beat me to it. | 23:12 |
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| Tama^2 | they are addressed by sector | 23:12 |
| sp3000 | the non-hc cards only go up to n gigabytes | 23:12 |
| Tama^2 | hence the higher capacity | 23:12 |
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| livinded | are patriot cards any good? I'm thinking about picking up http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220295 for my n810 | 23:13 |
| hrw | normal SD are to 4GB only | 23:13 |
| hrw | SDHC are 4-32GB now | 23:13 |
| hrw | and many devices with SD slot have problem with any cards larger then 1GB :D | 23:13 |
| tank-man | livinded, i have 2 patriot class 6 sdhc cards and they are pretty good | 23:14 |
| tank-man | 8gb and 16gb | 23:14 |
| jgombos | some normal SD go to 8GB (but violate the standard) | 23:14 |
| jgombos | Those chips are valued by Palm users, because Palm does not support SDHC | 23:15 |
| Navi | Same with 4 | 23:15 |
| livinded | I figure 8 gig is probably good enough | 23:15 |
| jgombos | Actually Navi, 4GB may be what I meant | 23:15 |
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| Navi | Mmk | 23:15 |
| Navi | I've never seen a regular 8GB SD. | 23:15 |
| jgombos | I just know that Palm users were able to exceed the limit one step that way | 23:15 |
| jgombos | And I think you're right.. because 2GB is the limit for PALM TX | 23:16 |
| jgombos | s/limit/official limit/ | 23:16 |
| infobot | jgombos meant: And I think you're right.. because 2GB is the official limit for PALM TX | 23:16 |
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| jgombos | tank-man: what's "class 6"? Is that what specifies speed? | 23:17 |
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| hrw | jgombos: yes | 23:18 |
| hrw | ~curse nokia for lack of dc-4 and hh-12 ;D | 23:19 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nokia for lack of dc-4 and hh-12 ;D ! | 23:19 |
| Tama^2 | someone has taken infobot over | 23:20 |
| Tama^2 | mighty h4xx0r xD | 23:20 |
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| jgombos | what are you folks talking about? dc-4? | 23:20 |
| * jott hands jgombos a google image search for nokia dc-4 | 23:21 | |
| lcuk | you know, thats actually more typing than just saying "car charger" | 23:22 |
| jgombos | ha, yeah, and it didn't even come w/ a search string! | 23:22 |
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| jott | sure it came: nokia dc-4 | 23:23 |
| jott | lcuk: well because people should use search engines first to get answers :) | 23:23 |
| lcuk | but if we were just talking at a party i wouldnt send them off to go find answers - it helps conversation to just drop in things you know, and more natural for people to just ask if they dont know something simple | 23:25 |
| jgombos | dc-4 could be an airplane model though.. so I'd still be tempted to ask for a search string | 23:25 |
| jott | lcuk: we are not at a usual party. we are in the internet :P | 23:25 |
| * lcuk will always help to put things in context, saving google for entire subjects | 23:25 | |
| jott | jgombos: i gave you the search string in my first "answer" :) | 23:26 |
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| jgombos | Someone really needs to come up with a better way to power external devices in the car | 23:27 |
| hrw | http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/02/24/bought-car/ | 23:27 |
| jgombos | I have a pile of these damn cigarette splitters | 23:27 |
| lcuk | wind powered? regenerative braking? | 23:27 |
| jgombos | I'm just talking about cosmetics | 23:28 |
| lcuk | in car usb support would be nice, at least one port per seat - and a network plug, and while we are at it, can i have one of those little hula dancing people | 23:28 |
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| jgombos | The power from the battery is fine | 23:29 |
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| jgombos | It needs to be like a power squid.. but w/ retractible cables | 23:29 |
| lcuk | could you put a small array of cig lighter sockets somewhere out of the way? | 23:29 |
| jott | what i miss most is a flux capacitor | 23:30 |
| jgombos | yeah, that's the best opion right now.. but where ever I stash that ratty mess, there will still be a bunch of cables protruding from it | 23:30 |
| lcuk | but that melted the electronics when i tried running it from the ciggy socket | 23:30 |
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| jgombos | Even better would be an inductive charger built into the cradles | 23:31 |
| lcuk | until you put your money there and watch as a molten blob of metal falls on your foot | 23:31 |
| jgombos | huh? | 23:32 |
| Tama^2 | "Map application which comes with device has very poor maps of Poland" | 23:32 |
| jgombos | how would that happen? | 23:32 |
| Tama^2 | believe, it applies to *maby* other places too! | 23:32 |
| Tama^2 | s/maby/many/ | 23:32 |
| infobot | Tama^2 meant: believe, it applies to *many* other places too! | 23:32 |
| lcuk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_heating | 23:32 |
| Tama^2 | s/believe,/believe me,/ | 23:33 |
| infobot | Tama^2 meant: believe me, it applies to *maby* other places too! | 23:33 |
| Tama^2 | mmmm let's see if I can find something else wrong in that sentence >.> | 23:33 |
| jgombos | u only get one correction | 23:34 |
| Tama^2 | I noticed | 23:34 |
| jgombos | then the infobot ignores it | 23:34 |
| Tama^2 | it goes back to the first one to apply substitutions | 23:34 |
| Navi | Tama sucks | 23:35 |
| Navi | s/sucks/rules/ | 23:35 |
| infobot | Navi meant: Tama rules | 23:35 |
| Navi | s/sucks/really sucks/ | 23:35 |
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| infobot | Navi meant: Tama really sucks | 23:35 |
| Navi | s/Tama/Tama^2/ | 23:35 |
| infobot | Navi meant: Tama^2 sucks | 23:35 |
| * Tama^2 hits navi with an electrocuting stick | 23:35 | |
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| Tama^2 | zZZzzZzot | 23:36 |
| jgombos | i was hoping to find a cradle for the NIT at ram-mount.com | 23:38 |
| jgombos | they are just not on the ball | 23:38 |
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| Navi | Ooh, they suck. | 23:39 |
| jgombos | the hh-12 certainly doesn't impress me | 23:39 |
| jgombos | I'd hate to depend on something that sucks | 23:40 |
| Navi | :3 | 23:40 |
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| lcuk | dont you get onje with 810 | 23:46 |
| lcuk | -j | 23:46 |
| EruditeHermit | hey does anyone know of a timer app for maemo? | 23:47 |
| Navi | Timer? | 23:47 |
| EruditeHermit | stopwatch | 23:47 |
| Navi | ah | 23:47 |
| Tama^2 | there is an egg timer app ;) | 23:48 |
| Tama^2 | I want mine well done thanks | 23:48 |
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| EruditeHermit | what is it called? | 23:48 |
| Tama^2 | eggtimer >.> | 23:48 |
| Tama^2 | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/eggtimer/ | 23:49 |
| jgombos | There's a stopwatch tool for PalmOS called Bobs Alarm.. might work in garnetVM | 23:49 |
| Navi | I loved messing with egg timers | 23:49 |
| Navi | real ones, when I was five | 23:50 |
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| Tama^2 | me too, set them up and hide them somewhere improbable and wait for it go off and scare grandma | 23:50 |
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| Tama^2 | >.> | 23:50 |
| jgombos | sounds pretty silly. It's easy to know when an egg is ready just by eye balling it | 23:50 |
| EruditeHermit | no one has made a native timer app | 23:51 |
| EruditeHermit | err stopwatch | 23:52 |
| jgombos | s/silly/useful | 23:53 |
| Navi | I can't tell when an egg is ready] | 23:53 |
| Navi | I always end up overcooking them. | 23:53 |
| jgombos | yeah, i just realized it was for boiling them | 23:54 |
| jgombos | I was thinking frying | 23:54 |
| Navi | . . . . | 23:54 |
| Navi | >_> | 23:54 |
| EruditeHermit | well timers have more use than eggs | 23:54 |
| Navi | I don't know, eggs are pretty useful. | 23:54 |
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| Tama^2 | I do not remember last time I ate an egg | 23:54 |
| Navi | An egg's most effective use is as a weapon. | 23:55 |
| Tama^2 | when it is rotten, yes | 23:55 |
| EruditeHermit | I can't remember when I last ate a timer | 23:55 |
| Tama^2 | if it's not it is orders of magnitude less effective | 23:55 |
| Navi | Even when it's not rotten, at high noon during the summer. | 23:56 |
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| Tama^2 | I cannot remember lat time I ate an Erudite or an Hermit for that matter | 23:56 |
| Navi | I've eaten Tama. | 23:56 |
| pupnik | if you're having trouble reading colored text in scratchbox vi, type :colorscheme <space> and then tab repeatedly through available colorschemes - for e.g. i like 'elflord' for readability | 23:56 |
| Tama^2 | Navi: true true, especially in TX :P | 23:56 |
| pupnik | or 'evening' | 23:57 |
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| Navi | I wish I had colored text. | 23:57 |
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| derf | I prefer :colorscheme ron | 23:58 |
| hrw | I prefer murphy/ron and sometimes peachpuff | 23:58 |
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| derf | Anything that doesn't use that horrible dark blue on black. | 23:59 |
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