IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-02-25

Naviyeah, dark blue sucks00:01
rm_youjust reflashed yesterday, updated, installed my programs, and i'm back in reboot-loop land00:02
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Proteousstop installing rebootTango.deb00:03
rm_younow i'm going to have to do like... one at a time or some shit >_<00:04
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rm_youthis is getting aggrivating00:05
hrwbye all00:07
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Proteousstrangly enough, alt is not shift00:30
Proteousso pressing alt 1 is totaly different then pressing shift100:30
Proteouseven if you try multiple times it still doesn't work00:30
Proteousluckly I've tested this so you don't all have too00:30
Proteousyou can thank me later00:31
rm_youanyways... flashed device AGAIN, installed becomeroot, apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, rebootloop.00:31
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Proteousthat sucks00:32
rm_yousomething is BORKEN00:32
Proteouscorrupted memeory card?00:32
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inzrm, apt-get upgrade isn't too good idea00:33
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rm_youalways worked before00:33
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Proteousmight be another case of "it works till it doesn't"00:34
inzrm, then you've been in luck ;)00:34
rm_youwell, if it really isn't a good idea... why question is... Why the FUCK is apt-get upgrade broken00:35
inzrm, it isn't really supported nor recommended00:35
rm_youwhy the !@&*(#^!@)* not00:35
inzrm, because it breaks things ;)00:35
rm_youthen something is *fucked*.00:36
inzrm, it is in the roadmap to get it working00:36
rm_youi'm sorry, but wtf broken-ass distro doesn't support a goddamn upgrade00:36
rm_youi need to go take a break.00:36
rm_yousorry... really aggrivated.00:36
Proteousbang on the keyboard a bit00:37
Proteousit helps me00:37
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Tama^2it does not help the keyboard usually00:37
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Tama^2keyboards need tlc too, you know00:37
rm_youseriously, i love maemo... i love my n800... i love developing for it... but this is a curveball straight in the face, at like 90mph00:37
Proteousthere is a built in system to update your device00:38
Proteouscalled the application manager00:38
Tama^2^o,o^ <- owl00:39
Proteouslooks like eyeballs with bat wings00:39
Proteousbut I'll buy it00:39
livindeddoes the 810 have some kind of indicator that it's fully charged?00:39
Tama^2o,o + ^O^ = ^o,o^00:39
rm_youthe battery icon in the top right?00:40
Proteousthe battery meter shows full and doesn't animate00:40
livindedI've had it plugged in for a few hours now and I charged it for maybe 4 yesterday and it just says charging00:40
rm_youlivinded: ^^^^^^^^^^00:40
livindedI mean when it's off and plugged in00:40
livindeddoes it ever say anything but "charging"?00:40
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lcukafter a few hours the charger says "disconnect charger to prevent power wastage00:43
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Proteouswastage huh00:44
Proteousyour charger talks?00:44
Proteousthat's cool00:44
Proteousmine just sits there00:44
Proteousgets a little warm but that's it00:44
lcukit also makes me a brew when i ask it nicely and can even give me a boost in the mornings00:44
livindedI just need to find a screen cover for it, I wish they didn't have that sticker and the tab on the one it comes with00:45
lcuki dont know if it gives the message i said when the power is off on the device00:45
livindedand possibly a car charger for when I want to use gps00:45
Proteouswho turns their IT off anyway?00:45
lcukmine turns off automatically - the battery just drains00:45
lcuki havent found a way to prevent it yet so try to keep it powered but its a bit restrictive00:46
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livindedI turn mine off, the bootup time is fast enough that I'd rather preserve the battery00:46
rm_youmine turns off by itself every 30 seconds00:46
rm_youand then back on again.00:46
lcuki suppose i never noticed it with my pda because its dock was also its charger so there was no real change in use00:46
Proteousthe nice think about the n770 is that when you put the hardcover on it turns the wifi off, it lasts a long time in standby00:46
Proteousalthough you can turn that functionality off if you want00:47
lcukbut "off" on the nokia is not actually off - i had a runaway process which was going and even though the device shut down and dropped to a blank screen my processz was running - io know this because when i plugged charger in my process continued00:47
Tama^2off is off if the charger is unplugged :)00:48
pupnikoff is off00:48
lcukit flickered over the top of the charging logo - rather worrying, someone explained that 810 just dropped down to a lower runlevel whatever that means00:48
livindeddoes holding down the button turn it off or just hibernate it?00:48
pupnikwhat Tama^2 said00:48
lcukthen how come when the screen came back on my process was still writing bytes to it00:49
Tama^2what pupnik said about what Tama^2 said00:49
Proteousit's only off if it has to boot up when you turn it back on00:49
livindedit probably drops is into status 300:49
Tama^2lcuk: for some reason it never finished shutting down00:49
livindedI'm assuming it has acpi support00:49
Proteousthe IT uses software instead of hardware to regulate the charging, so when you plug it in it is running00:49
livindeddropping it to a lower runlevel wouldn't do much in preserving power00:50
Tama^2does not have acpi :)00:50
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lcuktama, it never finishes shutting down does it - else it couldnt wake up and show you its charging00:51
Tama^2as I said before off is off if the charger is unplugged00:52
* lcuk ponders how to test it00:52
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Tama^2if the charger is plugged in it does NOT turn off (until you unplug the charger that is)00:52
ProteousI have noticed that my battery lasted longer with the wifi connected when I had my old 802.11b access point, with my new G/N one it doesn't00:52
Tama^2lcuk: no need to test it, just read the init files in initfs :)00:53
lcuki think wifi to an adhoc dongle takes more power than to a base station00:53
lcukgood point tama00:53
Proteousthere is also a 10mw/100mw output power setting which is usefull to know about00:54
Proteousthey bury it deep in the network settings though00:54
Proteousat least on my 77000:54
livindedthey really hid the option to turn the onscreen keyboard on as well00:54
lcukhuh ? really, can you give me a pointer, i only use it in the same room00:54
livindedit took me a few hours before I actually figured out how to do it00:54
lcukif you can dig the 770 version out and ill see if its avail for 81000:54
Proteousconnection manager -> tools -> conectivity settings -> connections -> pick a connection, click edit -> next, next next, click advanced button -> other tab00:57
Proteouswlan transmission power00:57
Proteouseven though the setting is in the preferences for one connection, it applies to all wifi connections00:58
Proteousit pops up a dialog box to tell you if you change it00:58
jkuProteous, how is th 10/100mW setting useful?00:58
Proteouslowering your transmit power uses less battery00:59
jkuit doesn't save any real amount of battery00:59
Proteousdon't think so?00:59
lcukif you could lock to 10ma the signal strength wouldnt be as strong but would conserve battery00:59
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jkuno,it's there because of weird laws00:59
lcukyes, and the laws of my house say dont waste battery00:59
lcukso lemme at the setting and ill see if it has a difference :P01:00
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jkuNot that I'm a power-saving-engineer...01:00
Proteousthat would be an interesting job title01:00
jkuI've just heard several experts say that it's not a useful setting power saving wise01:01
ProteousI never looked into it, or did any real testing01:01
Proteousso I don't know01:01
Proteousguess I could ask google01:01
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lcukok, it exists still in os2008 on n810.  on the wlan connection settings, edit one of the connections and follow wizard to the end, on the last page click advanced, then click other.   change the transmission setting to 10ma.   i hope this works and this message should be googlable for people looking in the future ;)01:02
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lcukits changed anyway, shall see01:07
jkuProteous, lcuk: there's quote by sameo in that thread. If someone knows this stuff, he probably does...01:08
jkusameo: 10 or 100 mW won't make a significant difference as far as WLAN power consumption goes01:08
Proteousevery little bit helps!01:09
lcuki know, but i dont want my NIT blaring out anyway.  knowing the setting is based upon law i should be able to do the same with my router.  since i am only using it inside why should i SHOUT at full power?01:09
Tama^2and manly01:10
Tama^2and annoying01:10
ProteousI AM SO CONFUSED01:13
lcukanyway, theres code to write :)01:13
Proteouscode like the wind!01:15
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Tama^2damn wrong window01:16
* Tama^2 impersonate AOL user01:16
lcukthey will come later, for now ive got a shell script to write or something such to pull a list of files together to build a quick c project01:17
lcukor will autotools do that kind of crap for me without having to retype a list of included files01:17
pupniklcuk: if you are making a maemo-specific package, then there is little reason to use autotools01:23
lcuki know, but i keep adding c files to my projects at a frantic rate (ok, 4 or 5 a night) and its a pain to have to write out makefiles01:23
lcukim trying out things and expanding on ideas and i wanna just make a new folder, drag a few files in add a few more and have a working app with minimal fuss01:24
pupnikYou might like 'scons' then01:25
lcuki just need something really quick and the script will do it, just find all *.c files, add them to make along with an app name and library list.01:26
lcukive already wrote the script to run make and send it over to nokia for testing (then it killalls itself when I ctrl c from my desktop) :)01:27
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* lcuk has found path of least resistence with coding and has finally got on with actual work ;)01:27
pupnikyes good principle01:29
jgombosanyone who has the latest maemo image torrent.. plz seed01:34
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Navimaemo image torrent?02:04
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pupniknow do I measure cache efficiency with oprofile?02:39
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ProteousI would do it later02:42
Proteousnow is so... sudden02:42
Proteous/s/sudden/`echo /etc/passwd`/02:44
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GeneralAntillesRotation support is pretty cool.02:47
Tama^2that was alt+102:47
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Proteousyou and your upsidedown excitement02:48
GeneralAntillesIf one could keep the taskbar down at the bottom . . .02:48
GeneralAntilleslcuk, rendering is definitely a bit less painful when the hardware isn't drawing against the grain.02:50
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pupnikHow can i determine at run-time whether a code change or compile time option (e.g. --funroll-loops) is causing more cache misses?03:04
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pupnikahh opcontrol --list-events will list types of monitorable events03:17
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pupnikTak: around?03:20
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pupnikopcontrol -e=CPU_CYCLES:100000 -e=DCACHE_MISS:50000  for example will give you percent cache misses for various routines.  Measuring these along with cpu usage03:27
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dospodi see someone started a stella port :]03:53
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dospodif only some1 hildonized that gtk gnutella deb floatin around03:56
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GeneralAntillesdospod, why don't you stop complaining about it and install scratchbox? ;)03:59
dospodif i had space i  might04:00
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dospodbut i have a small hd04:00
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: !@(#*)&*!(^#$(*@$^)!^#_!^$#04:03
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dospodactually how much space do i need for 5 gig ubuntu vm04:05
dospod5 gig04:06
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, I can't parse that.04:08
rm_youGeneralAntilles: 4 flashes today.04:08
rm_youi've spent about 6 hours trying to get my device working04:09
GeneralAntillesWhat'd you do to it? <_<04:09
rm_youand i've gotten it down to this: when i apt-get upgrade a clean install, it reboot-loops04:09
GeneralAntillesWhy do you do that?04:10
rm_youi figured out it's not QUITE a clean install... it's one of the repos pulled in by my "install a sane repo list" installfile04:10
rm_youwhich is only like 504:10
rm_youso i'm going to test to see which one has the broken packages04:10
rm_youand which particular package breaks it04:10
GeneralAntillesYou pulling stuff off the scratchbox repo?04:10
GeneralAntillesGenerally that's what causes the reboot loops.04:10
rm_youso theres at least one more reflash in my future...04:10
rm_youall stuff from gronmayer04:11
rm_youwell, some of that might be, i dunno04:11
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GeneralAntillesDon't apt-get upgrade.04:11
rm_youessentially, extras + maemo-hackers + debfarm + andereson04:11
GeneralAntillesThat usually causes problems.04:11
rm_youi'm not going to live with that04:11
GeneralAntillesEh, it's your own funeral. :P04:12
rm_youi'll blacklist packages if i have to04:12
jottyeah not using apt-get is not an option :p04:12
rm_youjott: yeah, in the same way that not taking a shower is an option04:13
rm_youit's technically an option, but not doing it makes me feel dirty >_>04:13
GeneralAntillesDon't use apt-get UPGRADE04:13
GeneralAntillesThe rest of it is OK. :P04:13
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jottGeneralAntilles: I WILL04:13
jottand i'll not do "apt-get -y upgrade"04:14
rm_youmy opinion is this: any distro that doesn't function with apt-get upgrade is too broken for me to consider viable for use.04:14
jotti rely on the super cow powers :p04:14
jottrm_you: well atleast a debian based distro :)04:14
rm_youso i'm either going to fix the problem, or go do something else.04:14
rm_youIE, think about developing for OpenEmbedded again <_<04:15
rm_youit might not seem like it to "normal people", but for me, apt-get upgrade is a dealbreaker04:15
pupnikITOS isn't a PC-linux distro04:15
pupnikdifferent parameters04:15
jotti still see not any reason using the applicaion manager :)04:16
rm_youit's just something i'm not willing to put up with.04:16
rm_youjott: i'll be six feet deep before i use a GUI package tool04:16
NaviThe reason behind not using apt-get upgrade is due to package maintainers04:17
jott"apt-get -y upgrade" that is04:17
lcukrm- does it work if you keep the default maemo repos with it?04:18
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dospodthe os2008 app list is growing fast its making my dissapointment going away04:25
Naviit's making me come.04:25
dospodthats cool04:26
pupnikTak, fceu modified oprofile sample run with dcache misses here
GeneralAntillesrm_you, fwiw, I believe gronmayer has the scratchbox repos included.04:29
rm_youwell, i'm going through and eliminating04:29
rm_youwill have results in a sec04:29
rm_youGeneralAntilles: can you pastebin your sources.list?04:30
GeneralAntillesJust ran upgrade on that this morning, and it worked fine.04:32
GeneralAntillesThe Xomap with rotation support is in there.04:32
rm_youwell fuck me. it's the rtcomm repo04:33
GeneralAntilles. . .04:34
lcukmight i ask why didnt you look there first - wasnt there dire warnings and people having reboot problems...04:34
rm_yousupposedly fixed about 5 releases ago04:34
lcuknot with upgrading, but having it installed in general so it feels04:34
rm_youin fact, i had the most recent version in 50-204:35
rm_youbut apparently with 50-3...04:35
* lcuk wont touch it with a barge pole until its needed04:35
rm_youi know, i really should have figured04:35
rm_youi even left it for last in my testing >_>04:35
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GeneralAntillesIt's disturbing what sort of troubles a stupid communication framework causes.04:35
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firerock@find dap04:59
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dospodim excited for the youtube plugin05:08
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jgi'm trying to run  The first time i run it, I'm told that Scratchbox user's /dev is not properly set up, and that root must run sbox_cntrl start05:09
jgSo I run sbox_cntl start as root05:09
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jgThen after I rerun, I'm told to close one of my other scratchbox sessions05:10
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jgWhy would the install script think that I have a scratchbox session running?05:10
jgDo i need to login to scratchbox and set something up before running the sdk install script?05:12
jgBTW, this is not a debian system (it's red hat), so I'm not sure at what point I can expect to hit glitches05:14
pupniki wussed out and used the vmware image05:14
jgThat was suggested to me yesterday.. and I got the feeling installing vmware would just add another layer of complexity on top of the steps I have to do anyway05:15
* lcuk has seen many steps05:15
jgOr is the vmware image already setup w/ the SDK?05:15
lcukyes, its basically ready to roll (if you can get along with eclipse, or you could add your fave05:16
jgI thought I would be installing debian from scratch on a vmware image05:16
jgah, there's the gotcha.. I like emacs05:17
lcukinstall it then05:17
jgguess i'll press forward on RH905:17
jgemacs is a large and complex install05:18
lcukgood luck05:18
dospodwhats so great about emacs05:18
jgI've installed it on gentoo before (where everything is automated), and it took /days/ over a dsl connection, because of all the dependancies05:18
jgAnd I'm actually on a EVDO connection now, which is worse05:18
jgI don't think any other editor comes close to the feature richness that has spoiled me on emacs.05:19
pupnikemacs isn't an editor, it's a planet05:21
GeneralAntilless/feature richness/bloat/05:21
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pupnikit's a place where you live :)05:21
jglol, yeah, it's a planet05:21
jgAnd i'd feel crippled w/out it05:22
elbactually, I don't know of a single editor which is less bloated in *design* than emacs05:22
elb(core emacs functionality is admirably simple, particularly for its age)05:23
jgbloat implies useless frills.  Emacs is big, but bloat isn't the right choice of words05:24
dospodhaha a leader of finland in freeciv is linus05:24
lcukhas his empire developed computers yet?05:25
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derfHe cancelled our alliance, so I wiped him out before he got to battleships.05:26
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pupnikanybody want to implement a fullscreen 400x240 double/triple buffered sdl mode?05:31
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jgIf I run "sbox_ctl start", is there any reason a scratchbox session would be running, even if I did not login?05:36
pupniki just vaguely recall others reporting similar probs05:37
jgI ran 'sbox_ctl stop' followed by 'sbox_ctl start' to make sure it was running fresh.05:37
jgok, that's good to know.05:38
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pupnikis there a sbox entry in your init scripts?05:38
jgno, not unless the script automatically put it there.05:39
pupnik/etc/init.d/scratchbox-core stop05:39
pupnik/etc/init.d/scratchbox-core start05:39
jgThe docs suggested it, but I won't do that until it becomes a hassle for me to rerun sbox_ctl05:39
jgok, I'll try that05:39
jgno, there is nothing in init.d for that05:40
pupnikok i have an older scratchbox here05:40
jgdoes scratchbox-core start simply kickoff sbox_ctl?05:40
pupnikDunno.  I think about scratchbox as little as possible.05:42
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jgI could try the sdk manual install.. i just wonder if whatever problem is breaking the script will re-emerge.05:42
pupnikyes.  perhaps some tmp file got left around, or maybe there really is a scratchbox process running.05:43
jgbut when I do a sbox_ctl stop, that should kill it05:44
pupnikand what does a ps say?05:44
jgI'm not sure what process I'm looking for.  Even when it's running, nothing looks obvious as far as idenifying the process05:45
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jgI see a process called metacity.. I have no idea what that is05:47
jgbut nothing w/ the string "scr" or "sbox" in the name, or anything resembling scratchbox.05:48
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jgI see that sbox_ctl executes something called "register_misc_runner", but there is no such process running05:49
jgI wonder if starting scratchbox only changes the state of something, and doesn't actually run anything continuously.05:50
pupnikthere is /scratchbox/login05:51
jgyeah, that exists, and I can run it and get a prompt05:51
jgI have no idea what to do at that prompt at this point, but I don't believe I need to do anything yet05:52
jgaccording to the docs, I just need to install the sdk now05:52
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pupnikheh @ today's xkcd06:12
NaviHaha, yeah.06:20
NaviThere really needs to be a way to lock the widgets in place06:21
infobotNavi meant: There really needs to be a way to lock the applets in place06:21
leif__anyone know where I can find a picture or video of this being used?
leif__I am curious what is meant by "The rotation works quite nice with hildon."06:25
leif__Navi, have you seen or tried it?06:26
GeneralAntillesIt works quite well.06:27
GeneralAntillesTasbar is a little messed up06:27
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GeneralAntillesSome dialogs are too wide06:27
GeneralAntillesapplication menu is too wide06:27
GeneralAntillesbut, with the statusbar applet, it's instant and easy.06:27
GeneralAntillesMake FBReader's rendering not go against the grain.06:28
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Navidoes modest check imap even if you don't have the client open?06:29
leif__wow, is there a screenshot somewhere i can see?06:29
GeneralAntillesHold on a sec, leif__. :P06:30
GeneralAntillesNavi, yes.06:30
leif__GeneralAntilles, thanks!06:30
* GeneralAntilles mutters about having to install x11vnc.06:30
pupnikthe 4" screen is a portal to a magic world06:31
leif__apt-get install screenshot-tool works too06:31
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GeneralAntillesMeh, then I have to scp it afterward.06:31
leif__i have screenshot-tool write directly to an nfs mount :)06:32
* GeneralAntilles is lazy.06:33
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pupnikuselessness is an uncomfortable state06:35
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JazicAnyone here?06:36
NaviJazic, no06:36
pupnikjust us bots06:36
JazicThought so06:36
GeneralAntillesbeep beep boop06:36
JazicSorry to be so blunt but I'm having an issue with my n810's app manager not wanting to download software from the list.06:36
elbI'll never understand the thought process leading to asking "anyone here?" in a channel with 255 occupants06:37
elbwe get that in #pidgin all the time, too06:37
JazicWell nobody was talking06:37
elbwhat sort of issue is that?06:37
JazicYour asking me elb?06:37
JazicI cannot get anything to install06:38
elbdoes it give an error, etc.?06:38
JazicAt the Downloading step it quickly jumps to "Downloading 'program' failed"06:38
elbwhat leads you to believe that nothing is installing?06:38
JazicSay I download mnnotify06:39
Jazicmnotify rather06:39
elbdo other network connections work?06:39
elbis it only a particular repository which fails?06:39
JazicYes I am able to browse the web06:39
JazicNo, I can go to and attempt to download stuff from there and I get the same issue when the link loads into app manager.06:40
JazicI beleive I removed a program that enabled this... I was cleaning up some space and at the moment the only app I have installed is X-Terminal.06:40
JazicYa... tell me 'bout it06:40
elbyou quite possibly removed something important, yes06:40
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JazicThing is... I've tried reflashing and have had no luck repairing my problem.06:41
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puttersonis it just me or would stellarium be amazing on an N810?06:41
JazicWould anyone happen to know the list of basic programs I would need for getting my n810 back to stock?06:41
dragornI've seen it when the app manager db corrupts06:42
dragornfor which there isn't really a fix, but reflashing would have fixed it, I'd think06:42
JazicWell it happens when I try to download apps from the web06:42
dragorngoogle for apt db corruption06:42
dragornthat'll tell you the files to look at, I don't remember, it only happened once to me06:43
JazicWhen I used the nokia software to 'flash' everything was the same basically. My theme had changed but all of the apps were as I left them.06:43
dragornunless you went through the backup/restore process and restored all of them, that shouldn't be06:44
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JazicEven still with a flash shouldn't it reset every program back to normal?06:46
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leif__thanks, that is great!06:46
JazicOh well if I don't get it working tonight, I'm sending it back and getting a mylo or something.06:47
dragornJazic: If you did a backup and chose to restore that backup after reflashing, it will restore applications, and if one of them screwed your system up, well, there you go06:48
dragornJazic: If you DIDN'T choose to restore the backup, and everything is still there, it sounds like you didn't flash the whole system06:48
JazicWell if I flash the whole system shouldn't it restore all of the default programs?06:49
dragornthis would be what I just said06:49
JazicI have used the downloading update and the .bin update06:49
JazicBoth leave me with no basic apps06:50
dragornSounds like you did something wrong then, haven't heard anything like that.  Make sure you're flashing the entire fiasco image, not just the kernel/initrd06:51
GeneralAntillesIf it's not restored to how it was when you took it out of the box, then it wasn't flashed.06:51
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JazicWell how do I flash it back to stock?06:53
JazicI'm using the nokia software and downloaded .bin with the newest updates06:54
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JazicIs there separate flashing software?06:54
pupnikrephrase that pls06:55
dragornYes, there is a dedicated flasher tool, it's on the maemo site, along with instructions on how to use it06:55
JazicOk thank you06:55
dragornIt'll flash from a PC over the USB cable06:55
JazicYa I just did another updating using nokia's software and all I have is: map, osso-xterm and tutorial-home-applet06:56
dragornI really don't know what update you're doing06:56
leif__Jazic, yes, those three are what show up under "installed apps" by default06:57
rm_youhildon-theme-cacher[1874]: GLIB CRITICAL ** Gdk - gdk_screen_get_setting: assertion `GDK_IS_SCREEN (screen)' failed06:57
leif__GeneralAntilles, are there still only the three currently-running app buttons?06:57
leif__rm_you, hildon-theme-cacher always does that.06:58
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GeneralAntillesYes, leif__.06:58
leif__rm_you, i read about your earlier apt-get upgrade trouble06:59
JazicOh well its magically installing now lol06:59
Jazicall I did was update it for the 3rd time and it worked06:59
leif__previously the instructions have been that the maemo sdk repo should not be upgraded from as it would break things. even though it has stuff in it that does work on the tablet, it was "unsupported" to use it (!)06:59
Jazic... 3rd times a charm like they say07:00
leif__i dunno if that has changed now...07:00
rm_youheh well07:00
leif__pretty lame imho07:00
rm_youapparently the rtcomm update is broken AGAIN07:00
rm_youso that was what caused it07:00
Tama^2I'm happy I choose not to install rtcomm beta (after it fsck'ed my tablet once)07:01
GeneralAntillesrm_you, I don't think that's an accurate statement.07:02
GeneralAntillesThe apt-get upgrade method of updating rtcomm will break things.07:02
GeneralAntillesBut the update isn't broken07:02
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GeneralAntillesThe beta update is done with a separate application.07:02
GeneralAntillesOn top of app manager.07:02
Tama^2rm_you: it's all your fault for doing things differently :P07:03
Tama^2think different they say, huh? ;)07:03
GeneralAntillesMr. Mountains out of Molehills. :P07:05
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rm_youas soon as i get my n800 unbricked, i can actually work on adv-backlight <_<07:14
GeneralAntillesDid you ever get the theme-specific icons figured out?07:15
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rm_younot yet07:18
rm_youi havent nearly had time >_>07:18
rm_youi havent had time to breath in the last week07:18
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rm_youreal life is pesky07:24
GeneralAntillesYou should just become a shut-in and be done with it.07:25
GeneralAntillesYou'll have all the time in the world then. :P07:25
Tama^2mmm just 24 hours a day07:26
Tama^2if you are on earth that it07:27
rm_youfail all my classes... have no social life (except IRC)...07:27
rm_youtempting... i'm well on the way to the first part, anyway :P07:27
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GeneralAntillesI love having online-only classes.07:28
GeneralAntillesOnly have to attend 3 lectures a week and 1 recitation.07:28
rm_youyou have a facebook?07:29
GeneralAntillesWish I could delete it.07:29
rm_youlol why07:29
GeneralAntillesBecause it's morphed into something radically (and disturbingly) different from what it started out as.07:30
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GeneralAntillesFilled with advertisers07:30
NaviI set up a facebook to check on one friend07:32
NaviI was quite shocked to find out that you could only disable your account07:32
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Naviit's like they anticipate you coming back07:33
rm_youwell, i was going to say, i should add you if you do :P07:33
rm_youbut apparently you're all "anti-facebook" >_>07:33
GeneralAntillesOnly reason mine isn't disabled is because I occasionally have old friends contact me.07:33
GeneralAntillesI only check it about once a month.07:34
GeneralAntillesYou're welcome to friend me, though. :P07:34
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rm_youhrm, that looks odd... (your screenshot with xrandr)07:42
rm_youhow does GarnetVM work!?!?!?07:43
rm_youtell meeeee!07:43
GeneralAntillesI haven't had that installed in months.07:43
GeneralAntillesEr, well, month.507:43
rm_youinstall it! and report back07:45
GeneralAntillesMeh, Palm doesn't excite me at all.07:46
pupnikcan we change refresh rate of ITOS X server / lcd controller?07:46
rm_youi havent had a chance to work on my chainmail in like two weeks either >_>07:51
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rm_youi'm making a suit of chainmail for my penguin :P07:52
GeneralAntillesThere be dragons?07:52
rm_youlets see... did you send me LCARS icons?07:52
GeneralAntillesEither way, they should be in the bundled zip I gave you.07:53
* rm_you checks07:53
* rm_you looks for that07:53
rm_youi found the email07:53
rm_youi think that just has the original ones?07:54
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rm_youi remember you mentioning LCARS ones though...07:54
GeneralAntillesClick the link.07:54
rm_youdifferent link, lol07:54
rm_youi should read more ;P07:54
GeneralAntillesThey fit and work perfectly on my LCARS tablet.07:55
NaviIs bluetooth draining while not connected?07:55
rm_youyou just replaced them?07:55
Navion but not connected, that is07:55
GeneralAntillesLocally, yeah.07:56
GeneralAntillesBluetooth should only be consuming very little power if it's on.07:56
NaviIt kills the battery life of mah E70 when it's on :(07:56
GeneralAntillesI'd assuming you can reduce that further by turning off Discoverable, but not being entirely family with the standard. . . .07:57
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I'd assuming you can reduce that further by turning off Discoverable, but not being entirely familiar with the standard. . . .07:57
GeneralAntilless/standard/english language/07:57
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I'd assuming you can reduce that further by turning off Discoverable, but not being entirely family with the english language. . . .07:57
rm_youso, suggestions?07:59
rm_youanother package, advanced-backlight-lcars?07:59
Navithat's just lame :P07:59
rm_youthe more stuff i stick in the original package, the bigger it gets... and for the large amount of people who don't have lcars...08:00
GeneralAntillesThat'd be an option08:00
GeneralAntillesbut it's a bit of a cop-out. :P08:00
GeneralAntillesWhat are we up to ~800KB?08:00
rm_youi'm thinking of all the people who would be like... wtf do i need lcars icons for if i dont have lcars?08:00
rm_youthat's the entire point of the debian packaging system and its ability to have little sub-packages :P08:00
GeneralAntillesAre you just thinking rolling the icons into a separate package or an adv-backlight-lcars applet, too?08:01
rm_youif you want the lcars icons, you install that package08:01
rm_youjust the icons08:01
GeneralAntillesOh, yeah, then sure08:01
GeneralAntillesadv-backlight-icons-lcars ?08:01
GeneralAntillesI thought you were talking about a separate hardcoded applet for LCARS, too.08:01
rm_youis there a way to tell what theme is active, i wonder?08:01
rm_youpfft, no08:01
rm_youTHAT would be a cop-out :P08:01
rm_youand annoying to maintain, to boot :P08:02
rm_youi need to shove these in a repo >_>08:02
rm_youSOMEWHERE. dont care which one08:02
rm_youalso, need to have someone else in this channel with some C memory management experience take a look at the revised (current) code08:03
GeneralAntillesDid you get access to Extras yet?08:03
rm_youthere was some talk in the forms about a possible memory leak08:03
rm_youno :( no response even08:03
rm_youunless it managed to get spambinned08:03
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GeneralAntillesThere needs to be an easy way to get good software into Extras.08:04
GeneralAntillesSeems like the leak might've been with the new clock.08:04
GeneralAntillesI know he fixed a leak.08:04
rm_youand something about crashing the UI...08:04
GeneralAntillesEr, OK <_<08:06
* GeneralAntilles should pay better attention to focus.08:06
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: so, how did you say you made osso-statusbar-cpu look decent in lcars?08:10
GeneralAntillesDid I say?08:11
GeneralAntillesProve it!08:11
* GeneralAntilles has no recollection.08:11
rm_youi dont know where the logs are, or i would just read those instead of asking again :P08:11
pupnikthey're rolling down th stairs!08:12
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Smak_ seems to be down down down ooooooo.  any mirrors?08:20
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NaviSmak_, That repo looks up to me.08:38
Proteouslooggsss loggggs they're rolly they're pully they're wood08:39
Smak_yea, came up a few minutes ago08:39
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rm_youinz: you there? :P08:45
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rm_youinz: you're my (unofficial) debian packaging consultant >_>08:57
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leif__rm_you, have you looked at the source to hildon-desktop?09:11
leif__they use lots of themed icons there09:11
rm_youi was browsing the gtk api09:11
rm_youand then looking around on google for examples09:11
rm_youlooks like i need to load a GtkIconTheme and use that, which makes sense09:12
rm_youjust figuring out the exact syntax09:12
leif__grepping the hildon-desktop source for gtk_icon_theme_load_icon might help...09:12
rm_youyeah did that09:15
rm_yougot some pointers09:15
rm_youwill look into it. unfortunately, i have to wake up in 6 hours09:15
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pupnikhappy monday!09:36
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Smak_Running Xor.x11 with KDE 3.5, can't seem to set my DISPLAY variable correctly Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server09:43
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Smak_do I HAVE to use Xephyr? Whats wrong with Xorg.x11?10:32
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Proteousyou will use Xephyr and you will like it too!!!!10:42
Smak_I use xorg.x11 and kde and I like it just fine10:45
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Smak_anyway, can you or anyone help me get though my display problem?  my local display is set to :0 , however within scratchbox and using :0 I get connection refused by server when running start10:48
pupnikyou want to display a program running in scratchbox10:50
pupnikon your host PC (using xephyr?)10:50
pupnikprograms running within scratchbox can't write to display :010:51
Smak_I am trying to start learning how to develop for the nokia 810,  I have setup scratchbox on my linux desktop, and am following the 4.0 tutorial.10:52
pupnikat least i don't know how they can10:52
Smak_I am not using xorg.x11 and kde not xephyr.10:52
pupnikthen you are not following tutorial10:52
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Smak_For this purpose, we recommend Xephyr, but there are also alternative options.10:53
Smak_Im using an alternative option10:54
pupnikok maybe it can be done10:54
Smak_I dont see why not.10:54
pupnikyou know xhost command?10:55
Smak_reading man xhost now10:56
jkuSmak_, out of interest, why would you want to use xorg for this?10:57
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Smak_well it is familar for one, and  I need direct rendering support, + multiple displays.10:58
Smak_I dont know anything about xephyr, I have never heard of the name until this project.11:01
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Smak_haha, I got it working11:04
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pupnikwhy do people make single line end-of-statement comments with /* */ ?11:32
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:42
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hrwpupnik: // comments are C++ not C11:47
hrwpupnik: but // comments in C code are allowed in one of newer ISO standards11:48
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pupnikthanks for the explanation :)11:48
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T0b0trasPlease remind me a web-camera app name?12:09
JaffaMorning, all12:11
hrwT0b0tras: camera12:12
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T0b0trashrw: does it do network translation?12:13
Spakman_does anyone know what version of ruby-gnome2 ruby-maemo uses? Presumably it's 0.16.0, but I guess it could use a certain SVN checkout.12:17
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b0unc3good morning12:21
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Spakman_hello b0unc312:38
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hrwT0b0tras: no - it is simple app12:39
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AD-N770do you know what causes "libfakeroot: connect: Connection timed out" when I try to do a fresh install of maemo?13:12
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pupnik_WOOHOO it built!14:15
* pupnik_ does the bowling-pin dance14:15
pupnik_wow and it doesn't crash holy buckets ! <bounce><bounce><bounce>14:17
johnxok, you've got me. what *is* it?14:17
pupnik_i mashed up some linux code with some gp2x code14:18
pupnik_and it was one hell of a ride14:18
pupnik_picture frankenstein taking a first lurching step :)14:18
johnxheh...reminds me of a car I used to own14:19
Smak_my enter key doesn't work :(14:20
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Alterego #rubylang14:54
Alteregooops ;)14:54
Alteregothat would  have been less embarrassing if it wasn't the wrong channel name :)14:55
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solmumahaAlterego: any progress with ruby-maemo?14:58
Alteregoyes, but still now new packages I'm afraid.14:59
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AlteregoI should really get my ass in gear. I've been being really lazy with it recently.14:59
felipecAlterego: what's gear?15:00
johnxhe means he should get working on his project. :)15:01
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Alteregofelipec, like sticking my car into drive ;)15:03
Alteregoit's a metaphor :)15:03
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felipecI don't know why I thouhgt it was a project15:06
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Spakman_Alterego: what version of ruby-gnome2 did you use for ruby-maemo? 0.16.0 or a certain SVN checkout?15:08
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BTobotrasAnybody tried example_camera?15:11
Takpupnik_: hooray!15:12
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pupnik_course, there's no input and no output. but it's emulatin!15:12
Takis it hanging until the buffer's filled?15:13
pupnik_nah it just makes screen go black15:13
pupnik_but it's emulatin15:13
Takhmm - I'm speaking of the fceu regression15:14
pupnik_oh i have no idea why it pauses15:14
pupnik_it pauses less frequently when i put a load on the cpu with 'top'15:15
pupnik_so it seems to be getting 'ahead of itself'15:15
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pupnik_Tak seen this? An emu coder got a Nokia
AlteregoSpakman, 0.16.015:23
AlteregoThere's some features in svn that I need to evaluate though. So I might be moving to SVN.15:24
Alteregodepending on the state of their test suite.15:24
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Spakman_Alterego: thanks. I've had a couple of segfaults using non-Hildon widgets. Have you altered them at all or is it down to ruby-gnome2?15:34
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AlteregoSpakman_ I've not touched them no.15:46
Alteregothe majoriy of segfaults I've had, mind you, have been missuse but unclear docs.15:47
Alteregooh, and unusual garbage collection.15:47
K-Foxbluetooth headset is worked only kagu ?15:47
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ltakkineis there a solution for UI bug 2291? I just installed maemo 2.2 and having this problem15:51
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Zhivahey all. I have a little question, not directly aimed at development for the Tablets, but maybe someone can aim me in the right direction: I got a n770 and read somewhere that it is possible to use a standard SD-card without any mods. Anyone know anything about this?15:52
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hrwZhiva: rs-mmc slot in 770 (not n770) is too thin for normal sd cards15:55
ZhivaI get the card to fit in the n770, but the system doesn't find the card15:57
glassit doesn't support sd15:57
glassplain and simple15:57
Zhivaok then, back to modding it internaly :)15:58
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hugolpanyone here got N800 SIP client to work with asterisk?16:02
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GeneralAntillesA lot of people.16:04
ltakkinebug 2291: Maemo UI can't start within Scratchbox. Does anyone know what causes this?16:05
hugolpGeneralAntilles:  the default N800 OS2008 SIP client is not working for me. Is there any specific configuration needed?16:06
GeneralAntillesI dunno.16:06
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Spakman_Alterego: cheers. I'll have a look at reworking some of my code.16:12
Spakman_Alterego: also, I've noticed that when I prepend or append things to a ListStore, my TreeView selection event method is called. It's not called when I run the same code on my desktop. Do you know if that's something to do with GTK on Maemo?16:14
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: when *do* you sleep!? >_<16:18
GeneralAntillesWay too early yesterday afternoon.16:19
* rm_you trudges to class16:19
Juhazglass, they're electrically compatible, so yes, it does.16:19
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glassJuhaz: someone written support?16:21
Juhazyes, the kernel modules were backported from n800, even sdhc works.16:22
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cbx33hi all....16:22
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cbx33go a quick question16:22
cbx33can any app get hold of the camera data from the n800/n810?16:23
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cbx33rm_you: awesome16:23
rm_youthere is both a camera app and a video app16:23
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rm_youi dont remember what they're called ATM, but they are on the ITT forum in the "Apps" section16:24
cbx33rm_you: yeh, but I wanna write an app16:24
rm_youmight have to go back a page or two16:24
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rm_youlook at the source for those :P16:24
cbx33I need to know how to interface with it16:24
wndunfortunately that doesn't mean the camera doesn't suck ;-)16:24
* GeneralAntilles just got back from class. :P16:24
rm_youack! late!16:24
* rm_you leaves16:24
cbx33thanks wnd16:25
wndalso see
cbx33thats what I wanted really16:26
wndiirc that example doesn't work as-is, I think I had to change something to make it run without segfaulting at start-up16:27
cbx33if you can find what you did that'd be cool16:27
wndlooks like I added the following attribute for gst_caps_new_simple(): '"framerate", GST_TYPE_FRACTION, 25, 1,'16:28
wndnow that I look at the code there are two calls to gst_caps_new_simple()16:29
wndanyway I think the magic was either to set framerate explicitely everywhere or remove the framerate definition for good16:30
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cbx33does the
cbx33code work?16:30
wndI think that's the one I had to modify16:30
wndbut try it out first, I could remember wrong16:30
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wndthere's one thing worth mentioning though. the example application is quite slow. that camera-application at garage has significantly better framerate so if you can find the sources, you'd probably better go with it instead. I would also be interested in the source. :-)16:32
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cbx33wnd isn't it written by Nokia?16:33
cbx33in which case is the source actually getable?16:33
wndI don't know, I haven't really looked into it16:34
glassJuhaz: thats very nice16:34
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booleani have noticed something interesting ... the application manager put one of my SD cards into ro mode after an install failure17:17
booleandoes the application have some form of file system  validation before it proceeds with the install ?17:18
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sp3000I suck at gtk17:23
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sp3000how do I get at
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sp3000I can't seem to find a sane doc on how these "properties" are accessed in C17:23
czrsp3000, g_object_get?17:24
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* czr has forgot most gtk during past 4 months anyway17:24
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sp3000now to figure out why label-widget doesn't turn out to be a widget17:30
BTobotrasbug? :)17:33
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* BTobotras lazily considers programming something useful. Web-camera? Something else?19:18
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rm_youMake a home applet that displays information from the temp sensor (in the n800 and the n810) and the light sensor (n810 only) :)19:19
rm_yousample code for getting those values is posted somewhere on ITT19:19
rm_youBTobotras: and then release the source so I can add a perlin noise based planet display to the center, and make it look awesome in LCARS :P19:20
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derfBTobotras: You should devise a way of turning matter into energy and back again via an Ultra-Mobile computer running Windows Vista.19:22
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rm_youok, that is a neat piano thing19:24
rm_youlack of multitouch on n800 makes it kind of... not feasible though :/19:24
rm_youwhich is sad19:25
rm_youi like the pocketguitar too :P19:25
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ac7ssanybody know how to set sound volumes in the shell? Video player is so much louder than anything else.19:27
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BTobotrasac7ss: aumix?19:33
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ac7sswhere can I find that?19:37
BTobotrasac7ss: apt-get install aumix-gtk?19:38
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BTobotrasac7ss: (click it from device' browser)19:40
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zeenixmallum: yo19:45
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zeenixmallum: i saw you taking a picture in my talk, any way i can get it :)19:46
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ac7sswhat's the repository?19:46
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BTobotrasac7ss: source of packages.19:48
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ac7ssno, the name of the repo.  (Not what is a repository)19:49
ac7ssthe url you gave me was bad.19:50
BTobotrasac7ss: -- grep for aumix19:50
BTobotrasac7ss: oops, I've assumed you run OS200819:52
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BTobotrasac7ss: or better grep for elkins19:53
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ac7sshelps if I spell it right.19:54
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pope523__Is there a program that will play MPEG2 files on OS2008?20:21
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pope523__Is there a program that will play MPEG2 files on OS2008?20:40
felipecpope523__: the Media Player doesn't?20:43
pope523__felipec: Nope20:43
pope523__felipec: Nor does Canola20:44
felipecpope523__: you need to make sure that you have the mpeg2dec GStreamer element20:44
felipecpope523__: if it's not there maybe you can fill a bug report20:45
pope523__How can I check that20:45
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felipecpope523__: install gst-tools and run gst-inspect-0.10 mpeg2dec20:45
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pope523__Where do I get gst-tools? I can't find it.20:46
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felipecpope523__: I don't know =/ should be there20:49
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rghoshpope_523__: "apt-get-install gst-tools" ?20:57
rghoshpope_523__: sorry that's "apt-get-install gstreamer0.10-tools"20:58
pope523__rghosh: Tried that, can't find package20:58
rghoshsorry, wrong package name, try the second one20:58
pope523__"Package gstreamer0.10-tools is not available, but is referred to by another package."20:59
rghoshdo "dpkg -l gst*"20:59
rghoshand give me the line that mentions the package gstreamer0.10-tools20:59
pope523__No packages found matching gst20:59
rghoshhmm lemme thnik21:00
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MangoFusionprobably in another catalog / repository21:00
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rghoshlemme find the repo for that package21:01
* konttori just made a blog entry on theme maker (nice screenshots included!)21:02
rghoshpope523__: what are the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list file?21:02
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pope523__When I try to cat that file, it gives me nothing, but I've used apt-get to install packages before21:03
rghoshyou are using chinook right?21:04
rghoshmy file looks like this:21:05
rghoshdeb chinook free non-free21:05
rghoshdeb chinook free non-free21:05
rghoshdeb chinook maemo21:05
rghoshyou can put that stuff in the file, update apt, then try again21:05
pope523__There are a whole bunch of repositories listed in the Applications Manager21:06
pope523__Isn't that just a front end for apt-get?21:06
rghoshin your application manager, can you go to tools >> application catalog?21:07
rghoshedit maemo extras chinook, and uncheck disabled if it's enabled?21:07
rghoshas well as maemo extras itself21:07
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pope523__There are 8 entries in the application catalog21:08
rghoshdo you see the 2 i mentioned?21:08
pope523__Yes, and neither are disabled21:08
rghoshok, i would edit the sources.list file if i were you21:09
rghoshthat's the only path i can think of21:09
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pope523__I tried adding repositories by editting the sources.list file last night and it didn't work21:10
rghoshdid you update apt after doing so?21:10
pope523__It failed to update21:10
rghoshok maybe the servers were down, you can try it again now if you wish21:11
rghoshhere is the package info in case it helps:21:11
rghoshaikon2:~# apt-cache showpkg gstreamer0.10-tools21:11
rghoshPackage: gstreamer0.10-tools21:11
rghoshReverse Depends:21:11
rghosh  maemo-mmf-runtime,gstreamer0.10-tools21:11
rghosh  libgstreamer0.10-0,gstreamer0.10-tools21:11
rghosh  gstreamer-tools,gstreamer0.10-tools21:11
rghosh0.10.13-0osso11 - libc6 (2 2.5.0-1) libglib2.0-0 (2 2.12.12-1osso3) libgstreamer0.10-0 (2 0.10.9) libxml2 (0 (null)) gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (0 (null))21:11
rghosh0.10.13-0osso11 -21:11
rghoshReverse Provides:21:12
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rghoshsorry, i was looking for that but couldn't find it21:13
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lcukyer, use pastebin, the internet tubes will get clogged and people will blame you21:16
rghoshgot it, sorry for that21:16
lcukim joking, i personally dont have a problem posting huge essays when the chan is quiet21:17
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jsheldongreetings, does anyone know if microb can be built for x86?21:31
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rghoshjsheldon: this seems to suggest "yes":
rghoshshit, wrong browser21:41
jsheldonrghosh: ah, nuts, no problem, thanks for looking21:41
rghoshactually, it might afterall, i'm checking out the MicroB repo now and among the contents:21:42
rghoshA    browser/extensions/maemo-google-gears/trunk/gears/third_party/gecko_sdk/1.9/linux-maemo/i386/include/nsStaticNameTable.h21:42
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rghoshand a bunch of others in that dir, don't really know though21:42
rghoshi don't know why it wouldn't, though... says it builds on non-debian environments so it isn't maemo-specific21:43
jsheldonrghosh: cool, I'm trying #1 from the instructions here:
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jsheldonah good timing :)21:43
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jsheldonI had tried the script in the second part first, that died rather sadly21:44
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metisyoutube not work, wants some package to us?22:05
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rghoshjsheldon: i ran fine on my hateful FC6 installation.  (had to install sharutils and quilt first)22:08
jsheldonrghosh: interesting, if I hit a dead end with debian package utils I'll dig into that further, thanks!22:08
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inzomg, someone tried to steal my nick22:38
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tubtubhi folks. Anyone got a link to fixing my internal memory card on the n810?22:48
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tubtublol, well I no longer have it recognised upon booting22:49
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lcukshould the osso_rss_feed_reader be operational if i dont have rss widget enabled ?22:50
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lcukif so, wtf is it there for?22:51
lcuk(and can i just wipe it out)22:51
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maddlertubtub: tried formatting it from the control panel/memory applet?23:04
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tubtubmaddler: Thanks but fixed it. I had recompiled the kernel and bodged it. Left something out and it didnt have the right nodes under /dev. recompiled stock kernel and all sorted now23:11
lcukanother linux question:   when i run find (in this case: find / -iname 'sdl*' )  why does it list a number of folders along its search which are permission denied and how do i prevent it from listing those broken links (which distract the eye and scroll for ages even if nothing is found23:14
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derflcuk: It lists folders where permission was denied because... permission was denied. It's telling you it couldn't search in there.23:17
derfYou can get rid of error messages by adding a 2> /dev/null to the end of the command (assuming you're using bash or an equivalent shell).23:18
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lcukexcellent, i will try it :)  i realise it might not get everywhere but when i am just trying to find something which i know applications can reach (the compiler) which isn't root then by definition, I should be able to as well.  thanks for info, it works btw.23:19
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NaviAnyone run the GPE Calendar widget?23:39
NaviIt doesn't work for me.23:39
Tama^2Hi Navi23:39
_Shurik_I couldn't get it to run either23:40
_Shurik_it's missing some libraries, I didn't have time to look23:40
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