IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-02-21

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maddlerVeggen: you should have been bloggin' about that alreadt! ;)00:04
maddleroff to bed...00:04
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cyberholicgood evening everyone... i was wondering if it is possible to watch live video stream through my n800 ? i mean, there are plenty of television streams available, so the question is: can i watch them on the n800 ?00:07
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GeneralAntillescyberholic, sure, but it depends on the stream.00:08
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cyberholicgeneral: i think most of the avail. streams are in windows media, asf or wmv. what do you think? is there a tool that can play that? i checked the garage, but couldnt find anything...00:09
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GeneralAntillesmplayer . . .00:21
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GeneralAntillesPaste the URL into GMPlayer00:26
cyberholicis gmplayer the "mediaplayer"00:26
GeneralAntillesNo . . . http://mplayer.garage.maemo.org/00:27
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Tama^2Flashed the latest release, reinstalling apps00:29
Navi...00:29
Tama^2GeneralAntilles: did you flash the update?00:29
NaviDamned ambiguity.00:29
GeneralAntillesNope00:30
GeneralAntillesThe N800 with the boot issue is currently in the car, and I'm way too lazy to walk out and get it.00:30
cyberholicgeneral: does that mean that mplayer can also play asx files?00:30
GeneralAntillesIf anything can, it would, but I've never tried, so I can't speak from experience.00:31
livindeddoes maemo have binary compatability with vanilla debian?00:32
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cyberholicthanks a lot. i ll try it now....00:32
GNUcosohwy the N810 GPS is too slow?00:33
GeneralAntillesARM EABI, yes.00:33
GNUcosos/hwy/why00:33
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ds3has anyone written up a utility to serve up a scanned map (TIFF/GIF/PNG/JPG/etc) in little chunks so maemo-mapper can download it?00:34
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jku__ds3, it's not just chopping it up, it's also the coord system transformations and calibration00:44
jku__I guess they're not necessary if you don't need correct coordinates00:45
pupnikI gotcher coordinates right HEEERE00:46
ds3jku: I know - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Slippy_map_tilenames00:48
ds3that I think describes the coordinate transformation00:48
jku__was just looking for that link :)00:48
ds3I am trying to put scanned USGS Topo's on the N800. first thought was to write a script that drops stuff in the v1 format but then I looked at it and decided that was a bad way (violates proper abstractions)00:49
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ds3so my current thought is to feed it in as a repo. if someone has the scripts/CGI/web server/etc to do it, there is no reason to duplicate the work otherwise, it should not be that hard to take a scanned USGS map with cross hairs already in place indicating calibration00:50
jku__ds3, that transform is from  gps coords to a Mercator projection...00:50
jku__not sure what USGS uses?00:50
ds3I think USGS has Lat/Long on there already00:50
ds3biggest problem is I think most USGS maps are NAD27 but GPS wants WGS8400:51
jku__exactly00:51
ds3but that is a linear transform; I should be able to prototype this by starting with a script that takes as input - name of TIFF, Lat/Long of upper left, Lat/Long of lower right and spit out peices00:52
ds3once that works, there are tools to give me the equiv in WGS8400:52
jku__ah, ok00:52
ds3a basic CGI script + apache should work but might be painfully slow00:52
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ds3but judging from the response, such a thing does not yet exist00:53
ds3is anyone else interested in such a tool though?00:53
jku__openstreetmap community might be a better source of info...00:53
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ds3unless I underestimated, it should easier to hack it up the script first00:55
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PervilaAny microb devs awake?00:56
ds3if no one here is interested in that stuff, I'll just shut up and do it00:56
GeneralAntillesAnybody tell me what font LCARS uses for the 802.11 and RX-34?00:57
PervilaI've got some browser benchmarks that might be interesting, unsure on who to contact.00:57
GeneralAntillestimeless, Pervila.00:58
Pervilathanks00:58
Stskeepshrm. how much can a standard battery stand on n800 with "always online" (wifi enabled and connected, but screen off)00:59
Stskeeps?00:59
GeneralAntillesDepends on what background stuff is running.00:59
GeneralAntillesBut, I get about 2-3 days idle with wifi connected.00:59
pupniki've kept a ping going to a wlan connected n810 for an insane amt of time - like 22+ hours00:59
Pervilatimeless seems very asleep though. =)00:59
Stskeepsgood enough - working with perhaps using n800 devices for home-hospital interaction :P01:00
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dospod...01:01
dospodhey01:01
PervilaAnyhow, I did a whole lot of browser benchmarks on the n95, n800 and the iphone. microb did pretty good. Though that somebody on the dev team might be interested.01:03
shackanStskeeps: I almost doubled that time using a bluetooth connection instead of wifi01:03
MangoFusioni seem to have been consistently getting 9 days (idle) 7 hours (in use) with my n80001:04
dospodAny news on a real snes emulator for maemo?01:04
MangoFusionwith wifi on01:04
shackanMangoFusion: but that's not always connected, I guess01:05
MangoFusionoriginally 10 days, haha01:05
MangoFusionits currently connected to google talk, that is about it01:05
shackanmm, constantly? and it runs days?01:05
MangoFusioni did have it connected to skype in idle for a day or two, though didn't do any timing so couldn't really say anything conclusive01:06
shackanwow01:06
MangoFusionbuy me another n800 and i'll figure it out ;)01:06
shackanusing depleted uranium batteries?01:06
MangoFusionhahaha01:06
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MangoFusionthinking about it, the battery life in general seems to be much better than my axim x50 (which tended to die quickly especially with wifi and co on), and miles better than my macbook01:08
Stskeepsand second question - does the N800 have a wakeup feature (ie, come out of standby/power off at this point of the day)?01:08
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dospodI wish the n800 had a snes emulator , snes is the best system in my opinion01:09
MangoFusioncouldn't you compile zsnes in scratchbox maybe? =/01:09
pupnikno zsnes is x86-only01:09
johnxzsnes includes lots of x86 assembly IIRC01:09
jku__Stskeeps, yeah there's an alarm API (and UI), but it seems to have some problems01:09
MangoFusionreally? didn't know that01:09
Navisnes9x01:10
jku__Stskeeps, there's a bug open about alarms not firing01:10
pupnikdospod: have you google searched for maemo or nokia + snes?01:10
MangoFusionok then compile in scratchbox after you rewrite everything in ARM01:10
MangoFusion;)01:10
MangoFusion*or*01:10
MangoFusionrun it over the net01:10
NaviI doubt the N800 could do SNES without drivers for the PowerVR01:10
dospod: (01:10
dospodI love snes01:10
NaviEven the GP2X can't do it at full speed for every game.01:11
dospodand nes is alright but xmaeme whatever is a horrible ui that cant launch roms to save its life01:11
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blafaselI still don't get it: Was exactly was the problem with PowerVR (and all the other neat features)? Nokia N?? phones use it, right?01:11
blafasels/Was/What/01:11
infobotblafasel meant: I still don't get it: What exactly was the problem with PowerVR (and all the other neat features)? Nokia N?? phones use it, right?01:11
pupnikthose phones don't have 800x480 screens01:11
johnxNavi, why would the PowerVR help? we get free scaling from the LCD controller...01:12
pupnikthat's the problem01:12
blafaselpupnik: Can you elaborate? I'm really unable to get it..01:12
pupnikomap2420 doesn't natively support 800x480 screens01:12
GeneralAntillesblafasel, it's not hooked up correctly.01:13
Navijohnx, hardware acceleration of graphics01:13
NaviWho cares about scaling?01:13
Stskeepsheh :) ALARM_EVENT_ACTDEAD01:13
Stskeepshow cute01:13
blafaselThat are different points though. Is the bus/hook the problem or the resolution?01:13
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dospodand why is the ui for the nes;/mame emulators so bad at loading roms it makes no sense01:15
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NaviBecause they were quickly put together because users complained that they were too inept to use the command line.01:16
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dospodwell alot of the users prob never used linux before01:16
dospodbut still they could update the ui insted of leaving it in its current state01:17
johnxif you had a go at the UI I'm sure they'd accept patches :)01:18
GeneralAntillesblafasel, the OMAP2420 is designed for a maximum of 640x480, the N8x0s are 800x480.01:18
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dospodjohnx I would but I can't code01:19
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dospodim only a cridic lol01:19
johnx:P01:19
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pupnikdospod: it should at least remember a list of ROMs so you don't have to specify location every time01:19
Navis/cridic/critic/g01:20
dospodhmm also how is the debian armel port going if anybody knows?01:20
johnxdospod, I need to work on sound some more01:20
johnxbuttons work pretty reliably now01:20
dospodthats an intresting projet01:21
dospodIm not sure how it would help me get a better use out of my tablet but something about debian and their repos make think i can lol01:21
johnxI need to work on getting debs built of the xomap with rotation :)01:22
johnxmaybe today01:22
dospodhmm my question and I know its prob noobish but would the debain repos have better emulation apps than current ones01:23
NaviMaybe.01:24
johnxthey'll have *more* emulation apps01:24
johnxI doubt they'll have any that are more well optimized01:24
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johnxdebian armel is compiled with armv4t as a target, while the emus specifically for the N8x0 are compiled for armv6te w/ vfp01:25
NaviI hope the WiMax tablet comes soon so the N800 reaches my affordability.01:25
johnxNavi, about the video acceleration. I was under the impression that there wasn't much you could accelerate about an SNES emu except the actual scaling and display?01:26
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johnx(though I've been wrong before...)01:26
* pupnik stabs openal in the face01:26
NaviWhat?01:26
pupnikunless you want to write a PPU or a sound core for the TI dsp01:27
NaviThere's a lot of blitting involved that would be made faster with graphics acceleration01:27
dospodI guess my dreams of snes on my tablet are pretty much crushed : \01:27
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NaviThat's where SNES takes the biggest hit on the GP2X, as the CPU is enough to emulate everything else.01:30
dospodand wouldnt an atari 2600 emulator make sense on the n80001:31
dospodone button joystick with a 4 way d pad01:31
johnxdospod, do you know the name of one?01:32
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pupnikdospod i've been playing with snes on the tablet for about 11 months01:32
dospodste;;a01:32
dospodstella*01:32
pupnikdospod http://pupnik.de/software.html01:32
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Navipupnik, how well does it run?01:34
dospodhmm no deb01:35
Navijohnx, google would tell you >_> stella is one01:35
pupnikhah i made vi segfault01:35
Navinice01:35
johnxthe busybox vi or a real vi?01:35
pupnikbusybox01:35
dospodhey pupnik what am I supposed to do with the tar01:36
Navigah01:36
NaviStupid Sourceforge01:36
pupnikdelete it01:37
* Navi deletes sourceforge.net01:37
Navidone01:37
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pupnikapt-get install --reinstall osso-esd02:00
pupnikReinstallation of osso-esd is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.02:01
NaviGod damn, APT has long-ass options.02:01
NaviAPT is going to give me RSI.02:01
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GeneralAntillesAlias, Navi. :P02:01
NaviToo lazy.02:02
NaviNot like I run debian or anything.02:02
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pupnikhey GeneralAntilles if you do  /etc/init.d/esd restart do you hear a bunch of beeps?02:15
GeneralAntillesNope02:16
GeneralAntillesJust the normal background hiss when a sound goes off.02:16
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pupnikyou have os2008?02:17
GeneralAntillesYeah02:17
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pupnikoki thanks... restored my libesd0 manually02:19
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icebattlesorry to repeat a question, but has anyone here experience in developing for maemo with gcj or fpc?02:50
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pupnikwhat's that?03:00
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Navipupnik, you've toyed around with snes emulation, right?03:05
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elbdo any of these emulation packages take advantage of the DSP?03:32
icebattlegcj is the gnu java compiler (builds native executables) fpc = free pascal03:34
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pupnikelb only for scaling the display03:48
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lcuk_2the display scaling should be on the lcd (at least for the YUV formats, i am playing with xv at the moment and its just auto scaling directly after getting the lower res data over the bus03:58
GeneralAntillesThat's nice . . . but when do I get an auto-scrolling book reader? :P03:59
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lcuk_2im looking at one without fonts at the moment..03:59
johnxGeneralAntilles, vote against the "somtimes cursor keys stick" bug? :P03:59
lcuk_2im working on a dual level scrolling since its tough to get smoothness (its about 10fps so far) at full res03:59
GeneralAntillesGood thing you can't vote against bugs.04:00
Tama^2johnx: all keys sometimes stick!04:00
Tama^2I mean, not only when you cover them in molasses04:00
GeneralAntillesElse I'm sure the green-nicks would've banded together to annihilate my "Unplug charger BS" bug.04:00
elbdoesn't fbreader auto-scroll?04:00
GeneralAntillesNot as far as I've ever been able to divine, elb.04:01
elbdoes the unplug charger message offend you?04:01
lcuk_2because a renderer for YUV must actually render at 2 distinct levels - 1 set for 800*480 and another (the color planes) are 400*24004:01
GeneralAntillesYes.04:01
elbhmm, I thought I saw auto-scroll preferences04:01
Tama^2it says to unplug to 'save power' lol04:01
* elb looks again04:01
GeneralAntillesIt gets in the way when I'm trying to use the tablet.04:01
lcuk_2elb,  its line scrolling and it hurts your eyes04:01
GeneralAntillesUnplug the thing and I've got to wait 5 seconds to close whatever application happens to be open.04:01
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elboh, so it's its position or modality which offends you?04:02
GeneralAntillesIt's a lot of things.04:02
lcuk_2because whatever i render must already be halved im gonna try to switch from high resolution static page to half resolution scrolling page after the user clicks...04:02
elbTama^2: wall warts burn a disturbing amount of energy doing nothing04:02
GeneralAntillesIt's the usability impact, it's the hypocrisy.04:02
johnxI just thought about it...other alerts are shifted down a couple pixels for exactly that reason, aren't they?04:02
elbNokia could have just shipped a wall wart which didn't *do* that, but they aparently did not04:02
GeneralAntilleselb, Nokia's wallwarts burn just about zero.04:03
GeneralAntillesThey switch.04:03
elbGeneralAntilles: you've said that before -- but my wife's Nokia phone wall wart burns quite a bit04:03
elbit's warm to the touch with nothing plugged in04:03
GeneralAntillesHow about your N810 charger?04:03
Tama^2it looked like my nokia one was one of those that do now burn too much power04:03
elbthey pretty much all switch, that's not the whole story04:03
GeneralAntillesEven so, I still don't need my tablet telling me to unplug shit.04:03
pupniki enjoy knowing that my useless wall warts are contributing to the heat-death of the universe04:03
elbthe n810 charger is at least cool to the touch04:04
elbbut still, it could be burning nearly the charging power of the n810 and remain relatively cool04:04
Tama^2pupnik: Chaos and decay, I say! the way to go04:04
GeneralAntillesA number of people on ITT have measured its usage at idle at zero.04:04
johnxmine are just contributing to keeping my apt above freezing O_o04:04
elb(I unplug wall warts as a matter of habit, anyway)04:04
GeneralAntillesBut that's still not the point.04:04
elba number of people on ITT believe that their power button has a G-spot04:04
GeneralAntillesI don't need my tablet telling me how to use my electronics.04:04
elbthat seems relevant here ;-)04:05
GeneralAntillesHardly.04:05
elbI take everything I see on ITT with a liberal dosage of salt04:05
elbI guess I agree that there's no need for the tablet to preach, but I haven't noticed the message being bothersome04:05
pupnikdamned fceu.  dsmn it damn it damnit. it's pushing 30fps now but the sound buffer has errors at the edges04:05
GeneralAntillesIt is.04:05
GeneralAntillesIf Nokia ACTUALLY gave a shit, they wouldn't manufacture billions of disposable phones a year.04:06
elbwith proprietary power cells04:06
GeneralAntillesIt's a stupid, usability impacting message.04:06
elbdon't forget that part04:06
elband proprietary power supplies04:06
elbboth of which contribute to waste in a *huge* way04:06
lcuk_2but their phones do the job, just like a screwdriver.  but you know, people want new screwdrivers.04:07
elbI dunno, I basically keep my phones until they die04:08
GeneralAntillesI'd also like the stupid liability waver to go away in App Manager.04:09
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SDuensinGood evening.04:09
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elbironically, I've noticed a tendency for Americans to do that, but Europeans and the Japanese (I can't speak to other Asian cultures) to replace their phones constantly04:09
johnxas long as we're doing wish-list style stuff, I'd like almost *all* the confirmation stuff to go away on most of the tablet04:09
elb(the irony being that we actually have a place to *put* all the old discarded phones, whereas Europe and Japan -- no so much)04:10
SDuensinI came in late, but I assume you mean hanging on to cell phones.  It's because Americans get SCREWED when they change phones.04:10
elbSDuensin: yes and no04:10
elbAmerican cell phones are no more expensive than European cell phones04:10
elbin my experience04:10
Tama^2believe me, Italians are techno-feticists04:10
Tama^2a new phone every 6 months04:10
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SDuensinNo, but if you so much as think about getting a new phone in America, the carrier locks you into another full-term contract.04:10
elbno, that's not true04:11
elbunless you want to get a reduced price04:11
elbthe thing is, in Europe you simply *always* pay full price04:11
johnxwell at least in Japan, new features are being introduced constantly and *marketed*04:11
SDuensinI'd rather pay full price and have a carrier that treated me like an actual customer.04:11
elbyou can do that here with several carriers04:11
* SDuensin is with Verizon and really wants them to self-destruct.04:12
SDuensinOh yea, they'll let me pay full-price.  They won't treat me any differently though.  :-(04:12
elbpay full price for a GSM phone and then walk into an AT&T shop with it, for example04:12
elbyou can sign up with no contract, etc. etc.04:12
SDuensinOh man.  There's a reason AT&T's logo is the Death Star.  :-)04:12
elband our contracts are actually pretty good, in world-wide comparison, too04:12
elbSMS is stupid expensive, of course04:12
SDuensinYea.  That baffles me.04:13
elbbut that's OK -- talking voice is ~free!04:13
GeneralAntillesSMS is stupid, anyway.04:13
elbyes and no, SMS has its place04:13
NaviI always get unlocked phones04:13
elbbut not at $0.20 a pop or whatever04:13
johnxGeneralAntilles, and you use *what* for short text messages from a phone?04:13
SDuensinYea, but I can SMS in the middle of a boring meeting.  :-)04:13
Navibut they have premiums associated with them in the US04:13
GeneralAntillesNothing04:13
GeneralAntillesI call people. :P04:13
Naviyou can get a phone that's carrier locked for a discount, or a phone that's more expensive than it should be.04:14
elbNavi: with many carriers, you can have your phone unlocked for any number of reasons, for free04:14
elbthat phone that's "more expensive than it should be" is indeed more expensive than it should be, but it's world-wide competitive04:14
johnxif that works for you then more power to you, many people do like being able to send short text messages :P04:14
elb(I was shocked to find this out)04:14
SDuensinVerizon lobotomized my RAZR.  I can't do crap with it without paying them an insane fee.04:14
elbno, now you're (probably) talking about data services04:14
elbthat's not a phone issue04:15
GeneralAntillesVerizon is pretty much the worst of the bunch.04:15
GeneralAntillesDon't extrapolate Verizon experiences to the rest of the market.04:15
johnxSDuensin, I think that's one of big reasons why as a whole american's aren't interested in new phones...they don't get anything out of the deal unless they pay more anyways04:15
SDuensinNo, I'm talking them ripping the OBEX code and other features out of the phone.04:15
johnxor at least, that's the perception...04:15
elbwell, I don't knwo about "worst", they're all pretty bad ;-)04:15
SDuensinNot just switched off, mind you.  Removed.04:15
GeneralAntillesVerizon has custom firmware on all their handsets.04:15
elbSDuensin: oh, well, I've never seen anything like that04:16
GeneralAntillesFeature-reduced custom firmware.04:16
Naviheh04:16
SDuensinYea.  I noticed.  :-(04:16
elbmost carriers have "custom firmware", but the custom firmware is really just a set of images, sounds, and feature switches for a standard firmware04:16
elbthey call them 'SEEM's or something, at least for Motorola phones04:16
SDuensinI did a SEEM edit to turn OBEX back on.  No dice.  The software actually isn't there.04:16
elbyeah, I've never seen that04:17
Navisuxxorz04:17
elbbut I don't deal with VZ04:17
SDuensinelb, good idea.  Avoid VZ.04:17
elbmostly just because their service is crappy, not because of things like that04:17
SDuensinI may try and flash it back to standard firmware now that I paid to get my photos out of the crazy thing.04:17
elbVZ and Sprint are problematic in that their phones are not radio-compatible with other carriers04:18
elbthe GSM carriers at least have that going for them04:18
SDuensinKicker is, when I got the phone, I looked at the box, read the book.  No mention of bastardized firmware.  When I found out and called to complain, they just don't care.04:18
NaviEh, all Bell-derived carriers are evil anyways04:18
elband VZ even sounds like a bucket of crap like GSM, so you're not even winning on that front ;-)04:18
johnxyeah, really. the sooner CDMA (and other proprietary cruft) dies off, the better04:18
SDuensinelb, yea.  So far, it looks like "4G" networks will finally use all the same radios.04:18
elbwell, GSM has moved to CDMA, is basically what's happened04:19
elbit really is a superior technology04:19
elb(that is, spread-spectrum versus time-division; not the other crap they layer on top)04:19
SDuensinAnyway, sorry to come in yelling.  :-)04:20
elbGSM as a standard got a lot of things right that the CDMA implementations (e.g., PCS) didn't04:20
* SDuensin is just rather disgruntled with the whole cell industry in America.04:20
* johnx needs to read up on the whole GSM/CDMA/W-CDMA/PHS mess eventually...04:20
elbunfortunately it sounds like butt, but you can't have everything ;-)04:20
elbW-CDMA is GSM04:21
elb3G GSM is code division (spread spectrum) instead of time division like 2G GSM04:22
johnxyeah, that's what I thought04:22
elbspread spectrum is simply a better plan04:22
elbit's unfortunate that 'CDMA' was used opposite 'GSM', because they really aren't opposing acronyms04:22
johnxah04:22
elbit should have been "PCS" and "GSM", and "CDMA" and "TDMA"04:22
elbor whatever; VZ isn't PCS, but it's also a CDMA radio04:23
johnxspecial04:23
SDuensinTMI04:23
johnxand then Japan throws PHS in the mix, which IIRC still uses WCDMA for 3G04:23
elbI think *all* of the 3G services are WCDMA04:24
johnxbut there are different incompatible implementations?04:25
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elb"CDMA" is just an acronym that means spread-spectrum, and "W" just means wide band -- so any high-bandwidth spread spectrum phone is goign to be W-CDMA04:25
johnxalright, makes sense04:25
elbthere are different protocols running on top of the radios04:25
johnxaaah04:26
elbthere are also different methods of spread spectrum, I don't know how well "W-CDMA" is standardized04:26
elbthat is, it's a generic term, but the industry may use it to mean a single radio protocol04:27
johnxaah, nice04:27
elbyeah04:27
elbtelecommunications standards are notoriously horrible04:27
johnxit always seems like the more I learn about something the more it seems like a complete cluster*&%04:27
elbof course :-)04:27
johnxheh04:28
elbanything designed by *international committtee* is going to be a pile of vomit04:28
johnxwell, designed and then somewhat ignored to varying degrees over the course of years04:29
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nwidgerwhere can i find the changelog for the new OS2008 flash?04:40
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_darchey everyone04:48
johnxhey04:48
_darccould you possibly link me to a site that would tell me how to flash my n810 with the latest 08 build please?04:49
johnxfrom windows, mac or linux?04:50
_darcwindows04:50
GeneralAntillesYou try Nokia support?04:50
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_darcno not yet04:51
_darcive been poking around on itT and couldnt find what i needed04:51
GeneralAntillesHave you considered trying Nokia support?04:51
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johnx_darc, didn't it come with some tool like "software updater"?04:51
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_darci didnt get a cd or anything with mine04:52
GeneralAntillesIt's right on Nokia's support page for the N810.04:52
_darcon there now, thanks Ant04:52
_darcand john04:52
johnxhmm...honestly "flash n810 windows" doesn't come up with many results on google04:53
_darcyea =/04:53
johnx"software update n810 site:nokia.com" :)04:54
GeneralAntillesIt's interesting how support for a lot of things has drifted very far away from the manufacturers.04:54
GeneralAntillesFirs thought is community support rather than manufacturer support.04:54
GeneralAntilles(since manufacturer support usually sucks)04:55
Proteousthe maemo.org wiki has good info04:55
johnxyes, that's exactly the problem04:55
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GeneralAntillesITT wiki has good info, too.04:55
GeneralAntillesand the ITT forums.04:55
_darcyea, i just started on the forums04:55
_darci see a lot of your posts there actually04:55
johnxeven after company "support" websites are starting to get better, people still naturally avoid them04:55
johnxsaving them for a "last resort"04:56
_darcim assuming flashing is like reformatting right?04:56
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_darclose all the stuff on there etc...04:56
johnxyup, the device is wiped clean04:56
GeneralAntillesWell, except for the cards.04:56
johnxonly thing you don't lose is the lock code04:56
_darcok04:57
johnxaaah...right, N81004:57
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_darcive been having all kinds of funky problems04:57
johnxsuch as?04:57
GeneralAntillesOn one hand it's kinda sad that support has drifted from manufacturers since their support usually sucks04:57
_darcwell i tried to install rtcomm update 204:57
GeneralAntillesbut on the other hand, it's also a good thing is the community is usually a lot more agile.04:57
_darcand it snowballed from there04:57
GeneralAntillesThe rtcomm beta seems to be beta for a reason. ;)04:58
johnxI blame it on liability concerns...04:58
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_darcyea i know its in beta04:58
_darcbut i think im on an older 08 build anyways04:58
johnxah04:58
_darcso i figured it couldnt hurt to update =)04:58
johnxthat would probably be good :)04:58
_darcit wont even let me do system updates04:59
_darcsays im missing a butt load of lib files04:59
johnxdid you a lot of repositories?04:59
_darcadd a lot?05:00
johnxif you don't know what a repository is, then don't worry about it, because you didn't :)05:01
_darci know what they are05:01
_darci didnt understand your question05:01
johnxdid you add many repositories05:02
_darcahh05:02
_darca few yes05:02
johnxsometimes there can be conflicts between different repositories05:02
_darcoh...well i didnt know that =)05:03
johnx"now you know! and knowledge is power!" :D05:03
_darclol05:03
_darcim sure there is some deep explanation as to why05:03
_darci guess i dont see how that would have caused a problem05:03
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johnxwell, basically two slightly different versions of a package can conflict with each other or be otherwise incompatible05:04
_darcoh ok05:04
_darcOHHH05:04
GeneralAntillesWere you trying to upgrade Operating System in Red Pill?05:04
_darcright i get it now. <---slow05:04
_darcyes i was05:05
_darcafter everything else wouldnt work05:05
GeneralAntillesYeah, bad plan.05:05
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GeneralAntillesRed Pill should be OFF 99% of the time.05:05
_darcyea i turned it off05:05
_darcafter it wouldnt work there either, i was taking a shot in the dark05:05
johnxsometimes the answer *isn't* to try and force things. :) red pill mode is like a big freaking sledge hammer05:06
_darclol05:06
_darcok ill avoid using that then05:07
Naviheh05:07
* johnx just thinks of everything with car analogies :)05:08
NaviPPL TAT RECOMEND RED PIL IZ TEH WINDOWZ USERZ!!!!!!111ONEONEONEE05:08
johnxI seriously wonder why they didn't follow the synaptic "workflow" a little more when they did application manager05:09
johnxit really couldn't have been much harder...05:09
Navimeh05:10
NaviWhat bothers me is the ubuntized repo style.05:10
johnxubuntuized?05:10
NaviWell, perhaps it's a bit more broad than just Ubuntu05:11
johnxah, a repository for every app?05:11
NaviYes05:11
GeneralAntillesApp Manager is open.05:11
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to man up and fix it.05:11
johnxahahah...ahaha05:11
j0tti would just delete it :p05:12
Navi^_^05:12
johnxthat pretty much seals it05:12
* j0tt does not use the app manager anyway (or synaptic/.. on the desktop)05:12
* Navi doesn't like APT's style either.05:12
johnxj0tt, if they made app manager work better, lots of users wouldn't driven to the command line...05:13
j0tti would have to be driven away from the command line in the first place *g*05:13
johnxobviously you're not using an onscreen keyboard05:13
NaviIt's bad enough on the keyboard.05:14
* j0tt is a proud owner of a n810 :)05:14
NaviThough, there are always aliases that I'm always too lazy to bother to set up05:14
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j0ttNavi: that's why tab was invented :)05:16
Navipfft05:17
Naviyou can only tab so many times05:17
j0ttapt-g[tab] i[tab] packa[tab] ;)05:17
_darcwhat is the swap button?05:17
Naviit's faster to type out apt-get than it is to apt-g<tab>05:17
* j0tt counts the keystrokes05:17
johnxand the tab adds a space too, for free :)05:18
j0ttand magically browses through the package list :)05:19
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_darcwow that didnt take long to do05:24
johnxthe USB connection is pretty fast :)05:24
_darcyea it said 20 minutes, only took about 505:25
j0ttmuch better than the other way around :)05:25
_darchave any of you played with VNC viewer and computers using active directoy auth.?05:29
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johnxyou might not find a whole bunch of windows admins here :) (no harm in asking of course...)05:30
j0tton windows i would use rdp anyway..05:31
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_darcwe have that as a backup05:31
_darcuse ultra vnc on our network05:31
j0ttwhy backup? it's atleast encrypted somehow :P05:31
_darcso is ultra vnc05:31
j0ttah i see05:31
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j0ttjust spare the cal :P05:32
_darchehe05:32
_darcwelp thanks for the help guys, have a good evening05:35
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NaviHa05:37
NaviX forwarding > rdp :D05:37
johnxNavi, actually, some of Nokia's stuff really doesn't play nice with X forwarding05:37
Navissh is still sexier, anyways.05:38
johnxit's true :)05:38
j0ttand x forwarding is slow :/.. if it's not NX05:38
j0ttyeah.. ssh is the way to go ;)05:38
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johnxit depends on bandwidth and latency05:38
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johnxI used to use gimp over the LAN05:39
Navilol05:39
j0ttyeah if you have infinte bandwidth and 0 latency it tends to get quite fast :P05:39
johnxwell, that's what it was designed for :)05:39
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johnxand if you have infinite bandwidth and 0 latency RDP and VNC will *still* be slow05:39
j0ttbut indeed.. using X via lan is acceptable ;)05:39
j0tthehe ;)05:40
Navi:305:40
johnxat least it *scales*05:40
j0ttindeed.. but for normal low bandwith, high latency connections rdp is not bad...05:41
j0ttbandwidth05:41
johnxI'll agree with that05:41
johnxnot that there's anything to RDP *to* on this network...05:41
j0tt(though you have just some bad targets to connect to ;>05:41
* j0tt just has a remote rdp account that comes in handy from time to time05:42
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tigruxhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCa6NQQRYy805:43
tigruxtablet-tuber, i uploaded a video. :)05:43
johnxvery recursive :)05:43
johnxI approve05:43
j0tti just had the same thought johnx ;)05:43
j0ttuse tablet-tuber to watch a video of how tablet-tuber looks ;)05:44
johnxdid you get it sped up?05:44
tigruxNope. :(05:44
tigruxAny hints?05:44
johnxah...I thought it looked faster for a second :/05:44
johnxmy only thought would be that you could embed mplayer instead of gstreamer05:44
tigruxjohnx: Some videos are, others are slow.05:44
j0tti still suspect some buffering issue ..05:45
tigruxjohnx: I don't think mplayer can be scripted with python. Is it?05:45
johnxit's funny because it seems like ones with less motion play better, which would point to CPU limitations...05:45
j0ttgstreamer was not made for streaming media :P05:45
tigruxj0tt: But it works!05:45
johnxmplayer has a slave mode, but I admittedly don't know much about it05:45
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j0ttyou can control mplayer via stdin05:46
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j0ttthere probably is a python framework for it05:46
j0tthttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/PyMPlayer/ ?! dunno..05:48
j0tthttp://unplug.eee.upd.edu.ph/pymplayer/ thats the real homepage05:48
tigruxj0tt: I am loyal to the gnome platform.05:48
j0ttyuk :p05:48
tigrux:P05:48
Navitigrux, PyMPlayer is a wrapper you can use with python05:49
Navignome devs suck, they support OOXML.05:50
* tigrux notices many people dislike gstreamer.05:50
tigruxNavi: Miguel de Icaza != gnome05:50
johnxI don't dislike it when it works...05:50
johnxbut flv playback on mplayer is fast05:51
tigruxBy the way, I added the option of search related videos.05:51
Navignome is Icaza's baby.05:51
johnxif you hate every project/organization/company that has *one* person you disagree with...05:52
NaviIt's going with the project/organization/company you hate the least.05:52
johnxexactly :)05:53
tigruxNavi: I'm a former Novell Ximian employee. i can't dislike gnome.05:53
NaviI can.05:53
johnxusing mplayer isn't going against gnome...it's just admitting that sometimes "fast and dirty" is uhm...faster (and dirtier)05:54
johnx:)05:54
Naviuz xine omg05:54
* johnx remembers xine's UI, kries05:54
Navixine's ui sucked, but the core itself is sexy05:55
j0ttjohnx: the default mplayer UI is not that much better ;)05:55
Navij0tt, j00 diss teh command line?05:55
johnxj0tt, at least they use a GTK file open/playlist05:55
j0ttjohnx: that makes it even worse :P05:55
Navimplayer UI = mplayer file://j0tt.sux05:55
johnxj0tt, use the xine UI file open dialog for 2 minutes and tell me it's better than mplayers...05:56
j0ttNavi: na gmplayer is the default mplayer gui... command line mplayer is great ;)05:56
GeneralAntillesGMPlayer gets the job done.05:57
NaviI don't acknowledge the existence of gmplayer or any other mplayer guil.05:57
Navis/guil./gui/05:57
infobotNavi meant: I don't acknowledge the existence of gmplayer or any other mplayer gui05:57
j0ttyou should consider xine as libxine then ;)05:58
johnxfair enough.05:59
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Navinah, that's like considering Firefox as just Gecko.06:00
j0ttand gmplayer as mplayer? you get the point ;)06:01
j0tthttp://youtube.com/watch?v=Fglg-MptslA mhm nice ;)06:02
johnx"...and today we've learned that different people have different preferences and opinions! tune in next time..."06:02
* GeneralAntilles beats the voice of reason with a rubber hose.06:02
Navilibxine can't be used separate from xine (without a separate frontend)06:02
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Species8472DONT FEED TEH TROLLS!!!!06:03
Navihowever, mplayer is fully functional without gmplayer.06:03
elbeveryone has an opinion about multimedia frameworks, and virtually no one knows enough for that opinion to be grounded in anything but superstition06:03
tigruxGrr.....06:03
j0ttNavi:  and i can write a 20 line code that uses libxine to do the basic job ;)06:03
tigruxA user found a couple of bugs:06:03
tigruxhttp://bsdero.tripod.com/screenshots/tablet-tuber_oops.jpg06:03
j0ttin the end we all praise ffmpeg :P06:04
Navij0tt, and I don't have to write any code to use feature complete gmplayer.06:04
tigruxhttp://bsdero.tripod.com/screenshots/tablet-tuber_oops2.jpg06:04
Navis/gmplayer./mplayer./06:04
infobotNavi meant: j0tt, and I don't have to write any code to use feature complete mplayer.06:04
Species8472guys my N810 just started pouring out smoke, what should i do?06:04
j0ttNavi: so what?06:04
NaviSpecies8472, sell it to me for ten bucks06:04
GeneralAntillesGo buy one that isn't a knock-off, Species8472.06:04
Species8472wtf are you always that helpfull?06:05
johnxhold your hands over it to keep warm06:05
Navij0tt, so, xine isn't to libxine as gmplayer is to mplayer.06:05
Tama^2does it smell sausagey?06:05
GeneralAntillesOh!06:05
GeneralAntillesIf it does, eat it!06:05
j0ttNavi: no, as mplayer decided to not make a library out of it's core :P06:05
johnxSpecies8472, seriously, turn it off, unplug it, put it outside, and call Nokia for an RMA number06:05
j0tt(or the mplayer devs)06:05
GeneralAntillesThen give us your address.06:05
Species8472ok thanks johnx06:06
Tama^2Species8472: we can be better @ making fun of your problems if you promise to laugh (anche maybe pay us)06:06
Species8472how do i turn it off though?06:06
j0ttbut a text mode interface.. which is nice..06:06
Tama^2take the battery out06:06
Navij0tt, exactly, so while I don't acknowledge the existence of gmplayer, I have to acknowledge the existence of xine.06:06
j0ttstill i get gmplayer when i compile mplayer ;)06:06
Navi--without-gui06:06
Species8472wait brb going to try and get the battery out06:06
johnxSpecies8472, if it's pouring out smoke it's a lost cause. just put it somewhere it wont' catch things on fire...06:06
GeneralAntillesHit it with a hammer really hard to get it out!06:07
Tama^2honestly I thought he was joking about his 810 smoking06:07
GeneralAntillesHe is06:07
NaviTama^2, he is06:07
GeneralAntillesHe doesn't own one. :P06:07
Navi>_>06:07
Tama^2so he just 0wn3d johnx06:07
j0ttNavi: what's your point?! gmplayer is part of mplayer, xine-ui is an extra package as  a "reference implementation" for the separate libxine..06:07
johnxyeah, whatever06:07
Tama^2xD06:07
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Tama^2poor johnx, such a kind soul.. and you hurt him like taht06:08
johnxeh...06:08
* johnx really doesn't care that much...06:09
Species8472Guys I just found out I have a Nokia 800 instead of the 810 version06:10
Tama^2naaah06:10
Tama^2it's just that the keyboard wont slide out06:10
Tama^2hit it with an hammer06:10
Tama^2that should fix it06:10
Species8472wtf there if fire now06:11
GeneralAntillesSomebody's going to find this is a log on google and follow these instructions. <_<06:11
GeneralAntilless/is/in/06:11
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Somebody's going to find thin is a log on google and follow these instructions. <_<06:11
Tama^2LOL06:11
GeneralAntilles<_<06:11
Tama^2s/thin/thick06:12
briandwell, chances are fairly slim that the anonymous log reader will own or attempt to use a hammer made from flint ....06:12
Tama^2xD06:12
briandso, there won't *actually* be a fire, per se...06:12
elbfor the record, Species8472 is known to me as a troll from previous interactions06:12
elbso don't spend too much time on him06:12
GeneralAntillesSo you think, briand. :P06:12
briand;)06:12
Tama^2elb: he smelled a bit trolly06:13
NaviSpecies8472 is COOL.06:13
johnxeh...my faith in humanity damaged once again06:13
briandanyway.. "hi all" ... i'm eagerly anticipating the arrival of my new toy.  thought i'd log in here and soak in the atmosphere06:13
Tama^2will you recover johnx?06:14
Species8472lol @ briand06:14
* Tama^2 soaks briand in a Species8472 soup06:14
briandgee, thanks.06:15
Species8472Tama^2: stop trolling now please06:15
Tama^2xD06:15
Species8472this is a support channel you know06:15
GeneralAntillesSeriously, he can't be defeated.06:15
Species8472if you want to troll visit #trem-null or something06:15
Tama^2true true, I should see the light and stop06:15
Navibriand, I'm not even anticipating a toy. I'm just here to bother people, that's the kind of community you're getting yourself into.06:15
johnxSpecies8472, we changed it while you were out06:15
johnxTama^2, keep trolling :)06:16
GeneralAntillesSomebody fix the topic!06:16
johnxbriand, it actually isn't *always* like this ...06:16
* Tama^2 changed the topic to: #maemo a smelly and hairy feet troll channel06:16
* Tama^2 sniffs the air06:17
Tama^2:8)06:17
doc|homethat would be the stink of your own self-loathing you smell06:18
GeneralAntillesbriand, it's never like this. :P06:18
GeneralAntillesThe planets aligned or something.06:18
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: lunar eclipse right now for me06:18
Species8472ARMAGEDDON!!!06:18
briandperhaps it's the lunar eclipse, GeneralAntilles06:18
GeneralAntillesThat'd do it!06:18
GeneralAntillesFull moons sometimes cause it, too.06:18
GeneralAntillesAfter 4 years in retail, I can honestly confirm that the full moon does weird stuff to people.06:19
briandanyway, self-loathing is so overrated.  it is far better to be loathed by others.06:19
GeneralAntillesbriand, it's basically the same as having friends, right? :D06:19
briandin my experience, yes.  ;)06:19
Tama^2doc|home: that wasn't nice T_T06:20
briand...or, often co-workers will provide a suitable substitute, if friends are not available.06:20
* Tama^2 walks away crying06:20
johnxso, briand, N810 or N800?06:20
briandN800, due here on Monday06:21
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dospodhey06:21
briandi prefer:  1) two memory slots, and 2) the lower price tag.   ;)06:21
johnxthe price is hard to argue with06:21
dospodHey I know i seem like a nagger today but what exactly do they mean by the non free open ttd files06:22
doc|homedospod: they're not freely accessible. You have to have a license for the game or some such06:22
dospodI want to try open ttd since I cant seem to get anywhere in freeciv lol Im getting destroyed06:22
dospodWell how can I optain these files06:22
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dospodbecause open ttd is open I though06:23
doc|homedospod: paying for the game :)06:23
j0ttthe engine is open, not the data files06:23
doc|homeat least as far as this channel is legally concerned :)06:23
dospodahh so I need to download trasport tycoon I mean buy it?06:23
j0ttyes06:24
dospodoff to buy transport tycoon : )06:25
briandjohnx: yes... and i don't really need another GPS (I have a TomTom Go510, a Garmin StreetPilot ColorMap and etrex...)06:25
briandalthough, geocaching may become trivially easy with an internet-connected GPS... at least in urban, wifi-enabled areas.06:26
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johnxgood choice. The N810's GPS isn't that awesome...06:26
dospodi dont think the n810 is worth it06:26
johnxI still really want that keyboard :/06:26
johnxand the screen06:27
johnxmainly the keyboard06:27
dospodI can buy 2 8 gig cards for about $120 and the n800 for another #250 and then a gps bt reciever for $50 and be way better off then if I bought the n81006:27
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johnxyeah, the storage situation is great06:27
GeneralAntilles2x8GB is about $7006:27
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briandI wouldn't mind the keyboard, myself... but the 800 seemed a better fit for me in the long run...06:28
dospodreally that cheap?06:28
Navidospod, flash memory is cheap nowadays.06:28
johnxflash prices still in freefall...06:28
GeneralAntillesnewegg.com, dospod.06:28
brianddospod: yep.  check newegg daily... cheaper by the day06:28
dospod$370 for a n800 with 2 8 gig cards and gps , the n810 aint lookin to great06:28
NaviThey'll only continue to get cheaper06:28
dospodand Im thinkin 30 for the bt keyboard06:28
Navi5006:28
briandNavi: especially after March, when SanDisk releases their 32G cards...  the 16's will plummet in price06:29
dospodthen $420 for a n800 with gps , 16 gigs , a keyboard thats lookin good06:29
GeneralAntilles32GBs are coming out at $40006:29
dospodif only I could find a music app I liked06:29
Navibriand, especially when the SDHC spec increases to 128GB.06:29
GeneralAntillesIt'll be summer before the 16GBs come down a lot again.06:29
johnxI'll have to look for a nice small USB keyboard...06:29
briandyep.06:29
GeneralAntillesjohnx, cart around a Model M with the N800.06:30
GeneralAntillesCrime deterrent.06:31
johnxnot very thumbable06:31
dospodthe only thing I dont like about the tablets is well lack of good emulators06:31
johnxalsom if I put it in a jacket it might be a concealed weapon O_o06:31
GeneralAntillesOMAP3430 might make things interesting.06:31
GeneralAntillesHow easy will it be to rob the Pandora emulator work?06:31
dospodit seems the itouch has some good ones , and it kinda makes me sad because I had a choice of the n800 or itouch but maybe one day the emulation problem will be fixed06:31
dospodbut in the end i think the linux underlaying drew me into the n80006:32
johnxor maybe tomorrow apple will find a good way to lock people out and the touch *won't* have any good emulators any more :)06:32
GeneralAntillesHehe06:32
GeneralAntillesI can't believe they didn't just open it up from the start.06:32
GeneralAntillesWell, I CAN.06:33
GeneralAntillesBut still.06:33
dospodthe itouch runs osx but i got a mac so portable os x didnt make since for some reason06:33
NaviWell06:33
Naviit runs the same Mach-BSD kernel.06:33
dospodI know linux is more open than os x so i thought more apps library , which makes since to a newbie lazy ex pothead teenager06:33
johnxit doesn't matter what it runs. the sony mylo 1&2 run Linux but sony locks out users completely...06:33
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briandanyway.. i'm being reminded that it's bedtime... and i have a tough half-day of work tomorrow before my extended weekend begins..  nice chatting with you folks.06:34
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johnx'night :)06:34
* briand waves and drifts into sleep mode...06:34
Navinight06:34
dospodgrr kagu makes me mad , canola for some reason didnt satisfy me and the media player has a hard time finding my mo3's so Im in a bind I guess lol06:35
dospodexcept when I run kde then theirs juk which has worked nice06:35
j0ttdospod: mmpc+mpd might be worth a try.. i also dislike canola and alike for various reasons.. still i miss a player that satisfies me..06:36
dospodoh yea and one more rant , I dont like the ui for the tablets the one that moblin and ubuntu mobile has as the way u can change up hildon looks nice for the tablets though but I still like my device no less06:37
NaviCanola looks like sex on 800480.06:37
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dospodand I kinda miss opera but minefield is in development and that looked promising06:37
j0ttNavi: canola 2 looks good but is unusable ..06:37
Navij0tt, o ya?06:38
dospoddont get me wrong canola looks great but I dont like it for some odd reason06:38
doc|homeweird canola 2 works for me06:38
NaviI'm a die-hard mpd fan.06:39
j0ttit does not detect compilations, it does not detect cover files (no i don't want to get them from amazon), it does not have good playlist handling.... and worst of all it's closed source06:39
dospodand I wish I knew how to set up a dev enviornment in os x or windows because I dont feel like installing linux to port gtk gnutella06:39
doc|homej0tt there are scripts for cover files06:39
j0ttand there are various other reasons i don't like it (lie adding default custom folders)06:39
NaviYeah, that's probably the most bitter thing about Canola's taste06:39
dospodhow is ukmp?06:39
j0ttdoc|home: but this script just fetches from amazon? or are there ones that support local ones?06:39
NaviPun intended, of course.06:40
doc|homejj0tt It fetches from amazon once afaik06:40
johnxdospod, are you against the vmware maemo-sdk image?06:40
j0ttyeah i have all covers.. and amazon does not have all albums i have and even then it often gets wrong ones06:40
j0ttstill the other stuff also make it unusable for *me*..06:40
dospodkinda low on resources but I didnt take the vm ware option into consideration06:41
johnxdospod, http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ if you're interested06:41
dospodactually I am06:42
dospodtheres some apps I wouldnt mind trying to port for the experience06:42
dospodI need to learn more about linux and stuff seeing how I want to major in computer science or engineering06:42
johnxand it gives you a linux "desktop" machine to use if you need that too :)06:42
Navidospod, aren't you already running a linux distro?06:42
dospodand what a better way to start than by porting apps you like to a device you love06:43
dospodNavi Im running in windows right now06:43
dospodand i got os x06:43
Navimmk06:43
dospodif my laptop ac chord didnt brake I would have a linux desktop still : \06:43
dospodoh well I got my trusty little n80006:47
dospod: )06:47
elbyou need this cord instead: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PSPREPC&variation=2.006:49
dospodhahahahah for that price I better get more than a fkn cord06:50
dospodbut im going to bed06:55
dospodgoodnite maemo : )06:55
johnx'night06:55
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livindedman, I can't wait for my n810 to get here and start programming06:56
Navi:306:56
NaviDon't wait until you get it06:56
Naviinstall scratchbox now :D06:56
livindedI was considering just grabbing the vmware image but then I saw it used gnome06:57
* Navi shudders06:57
livindedI'd rather just install the sdk on one of my machines06:57
NaviGo ahead :P06:57
johnxmuch faster that way, too06:57
Navivery much so.06:58
livindedI guess I can commit a package to Fedora while I'm at it06:58
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livindedgrrrrr, I can't run scratchbox on fedora without disabling selinux07:11
johnxscratchbox1 isn't the greatest thing ever07:11
johnxit's a lot faster than compiling natively or in qemu though...07:11
livindedI guess I'll just make a slackware vm and install it there07:12
johnxa debian vm would work too07:12
livindedI refuse to use debian07:12
johnxah07:13
livindedthe n810 is the closest thing I'll get to it07:13
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NaviLol07:14
NaviSlack <307:14
livindedwell maemo I guess to be technically correct07:14
livindedso is scratchbox going to run badly in vmware?07:15
johnxwell, you take the usual vmware performance hit07:15
livindedwait, can I use scratchbox 2 instead if 1?07:15
johnxit doesn't seem quite finished yet07:16
johnxI haven't tried to build maemo stuff in it though, only debian stuff07:16
NaviIt's still alpha07:16
livindedalright, I guess I'll just build a virtual machine then and hope it runs halfway decent07:17
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johnxhave you used vmware before?07:18
livindedI've been using workstation since 4.x07:18
johnxit will probably be on the same order of magnitude as compiling things natively in vmware07:18
livindedok, then it will be fine07:18
johnxlikely at least a  little slower than native compiles under vmware, but then you probably won't be compiling anything really huge07:19
livindedthank god for gigE, copying dvd images is soooo much faster07:20
* johnx has a gigE switch and only one machine with a gigE NIC...heh07:21
livindedthe NIC in my T60 is bad, that specific chipset and a few based off it have an overflow in the power management code in the firmware that breaks jumbo frame support07:21
livindedso I have gigE speed but the overhead of using 1500 mtu rather than 900007:21
livindedbut all my systems are gigE07:22
johnxso what are you planning to build/develop for the NIT?07:23
livindedI'm going to port and finish my bluetooth chat application/server and try to help develop PIM software as I've heard there isn't really any and it's something that I need/want07:24
johnxvery cool. a lot of people will be happy to hear that I'm sure07:25
NaviPIM? cool :)07:25
livindedI don't really know anything about writing PIM software, but I'm fairly good with C and there is enough open source code out there07:25
livindedbut if I could get a calendar that's compatible with iCal and sunbird I'd be happy07:26
Navijust make sure it can sync :307:26
johnxwell there is a some PIM software out there, getting it syncing would make you a hero07:26
johnxsyncing *without* lots of work on the user's part...07:26
trulssync-o-matic-x07:27
trulssyncing even when you don't want it too07:27
livindedyou can just md5sum the database, check it against the main one, replace if it doesn't match?07:27
livindedcan't*07:27
trulslivinded: what if you have additions in the database made from another place?07:27
trulsyou'd want to merge the info, right?07:28
trulssync != one way copy07:29
johnxI don't even use PIM stuff on the N800, I just keep some notes in plain text...07:29
j0ttjohnx: wyrd and remind ftw :)07:30
livindedjohnx: I'd like to have my sunbird caldendar(s) sync so I can look at them away from my desktop or laptop07:30
johnxbut if you want a project, go to internettablettalk.com/forums and tell them you're going to fix PIM and ask the users what they want...you'll get mobed :)07:30
NaviI use google calendar and an intermediate step07:30
livindedI avoid google apps07:30
Navis/and/as/07:30
infobotNavi meant: I use google calendar as an intermediate step07:30
Naviphone <-> GC <-> Sunbird07:31
livindedif they want my personal info they aren't going to get it from me07:31
* truls thought for a second Navi wanted to sync with his gamecube07:31
NaviLol07:31
* johnx trades privacy for convenience like it's going out of style :)07:31
livindedthat reminds me, I still want to get netbsd installed on my dreamcast07:32
livindedI could have an actual arm dev environment then07:32
livindedor wait no, dreamcast is mips07:32
johnxisn't Dreamcast Mips?07:32
johnxjust boot Linux arm in qemu07:33
johnxit's probably faster than any retail arm hardware on an athlon 64 or faster07:33
j0ttlivinded: you might want to support/contribute to http://www.pimlico-project.org/sync.html :)07:33
livindedj0tt: I'll look into it07:34
livindedlike I said I really don't know anything about developing PIM or syncing software yet, but it's something that I want07:34
trulsthe DS is arm07:35
trulsjust boot linux on that ;)07:35
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truls(not that running linux is a problem, but i think developing on it might be slightly tedious)07:36
livindedI haven't done any actual arm programming, all my experience with the platform has been reverse engineering a flash image for a router07:36
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pupniksed is my content management system07:40
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dragorntruls: you *can* boot linux on the ds, but it's not "just arm"07:57
trulsdragorn: arm and a leg?07:58
dragorntruls: Among other things theres no MMU, and it's an arm7 and arm9 running non-SMP with different access to the HW (each proc can only see some things)07:58
trulsyep, i know07:59
dragornso I wouldn't call DS dev much like generic arm07:59
trulsyou can hide some of that stuff through IPC and an api though07:59
trulsneither would i07:59
trulsbut it's fun to develop for07:59
livindeddamnit, I forgot to create the vm disk as ide08:00
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pupnik_I don't think reggie gets complimented enough.  I think the ITT forums are the most prettiest forums i've seen.08:37
Tama^2which skin do you use?08:38
pupnik_default08:38
Tama^2I don't find it so pretty with the default one (but I admit I do not like forums in general) :)08:39
GeneralAntillesNah, that goes to the ambrosiasw.com forums.08:39
pupnik_dark backgrounds are pretty and mellow08:39
GeneralAntillesStill, they're better than most.08:39
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Khertan_WorkHi !10:11
Khertan_WorkGeneralAntilles > their games EV are Great ... but i don't find they have a good forum ...10:13
GeneralAntillesWhy not?10:13
GeneralAntillesSome of the most readable forums I've ever been on.10:14
GeneralAntillesMuch better user-quality compared to a lot of other places, too.10:14
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hachican i get nmap on my maemo?10:27
hachiim stuck using this as my debug console doing gdb on an x server on my laptop10:28
JaffaMorning, all10:29
GeneralAntilleshachi, check gronmayer?10:29
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hachitrying to,really slow10:31
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hachithere's no iproute... can i get the 'ip' command at all10:39
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hachino way to search for that i think10:39
jkyroanybody else having problems with BT keybaord and the newest firmware?10:40
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hachiwhat version is newest?10:41
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hachii use bt keyboard10:41
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jkyrothe problemi is that I cannot pair the kb with the device10:42
legindhachi, wouldn't happen to be a "Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 1000/2000 keyboard" would it10:43
hachiwhat version is latest though? i dont know this10:43
legindis it a MSFT keyboard?10:43
hachiapple bt keyboard10:44
hachiwhat version is latest?10:44
jkyronope, nokia SU-8W10:44
legindwell lucky you, the ones I mentioned had a very high encryption standard.....10:45
legindone bye.10:45
legindbyte.10:45
hachiany chance you could actually say what firmware version is latest?10:45
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GeneralAntilles51-3 for N80010:46
GeneralAntillessee http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php10:46
GeneralAntillesfor N81010:46
GeneralAntillesI think the N810 build is a 2008 build10:47
GeneralAntilles1-6 or summuch.10:47
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hachiim out of ram, thats why i was asking10:47
GeneralAntillesOut of RAM or out of flash?10:47
hachiram, im busy debugging my x server on my laptop10:48
hachithis hurts to type so much on n81010:48
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_collin_hi10:54
musikgoatugh, apparently the maemo.org wiki doesn't like me editing a page... anyone know of issues saving an edit in ubuntu firefox? or at all?10:54
musikgoathttps://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux/10:55
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hachihah, OS 2006 and 7 have iproute,but not 2008 yet :)10:55
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GeneralAntillesCompile it.10:58
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|tbb|morning all11:27
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X-FadeHi guys, the maemo 4.0.1 SDK has just been released: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/maemo_4_0_1_released.html12:10
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X-FadeThis release aligns all packages with the OS2008 versions.12:11
jku__ooh, shiny12:11
X-Fadeheh12:12
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jku__seriously speaking, loks good. having several versions in various repos is just confusing and time consuming12:15
jku__looks, even12:15
X-Fadejku__: Well, this more a bug fix ;)12:15
jku__I assume the nokia binary package has upgrades also?12:20
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musikgoathow can I get my n800/os08 to not drop wireless when power adapter is attached?12:21
jku__I still haven't understood why the binaries have to be distributed in such a bass-ackwards way...12:21
musikgoat...after the normal time that the device goes into standby12:21
X-Fadejku__: I have no idea, my guess is legal department? :)12:22
X-Fademusikgoat: Mine doesn't do that? :)12:22
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to go beat the legal department with a trout.12:22
Khertan_Worklol12:23
musikgoatvagalume fails to keep a connection after a period of time, maybe its vagalume, not the n800?12:23
jku__X-Fade, that's my guess too, I still don't understand how it's different from a binary only repository...12:23
jku__...except that it makes everyones life harder12:23
X-Fadejku__: The 'legal' mind works in mysterious ways..12:24
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GeneralAntillesThe dinosaurs need to die off so the rest of us can get on with advancing humanity.12:25
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: It all comes down to the crazy patent system in US.12:25
X-FadeReally..12:25
X-FadeBig companies are afraid of being sued. That is a real danger to them.12:26
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jku__I'm not going to read the whole EULA again, but I found this odd already the first time round: "Licensee shall not modify or develop any derivative works of the Licensed Software unless specifically authorized by this Agreement"12:32
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jku__so... how am I supposed to use the libraries?12:32
X-Fadejku__: Ask that question on the mailinglist. Should be a fun discussion?12:34
GeneralAntillesThey sure do stick some funny shit in EULAs.12:34
jku__Hmm, I assume I can get rid of the original local binary repository?12:39
jku__looks like it12:40
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jku__Anyway, I expect to see more people confused about the SDK repositories on the mailing list after this... Easy to forget updating the binary repo when installing or forget updating sources.list for one target...12:44
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Khertan_Workfor me, i ll wait that a new vmware with the updated sdk will be available ... more easy ... :)12:51
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning12:56
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b0unc3good morning13:25
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wwpg00d m0rn1ng bounce13:33
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VeggenHmm. Does there exist a "service starter" applet?13:55
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Khertan_WorkVeggen > i don't know one ...14:11
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Stskeepshas anyone played with hantro4200enc and encoding mp4?14:43
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* Tak hack x86 out of sdk script; install sdk15:24
X-Fadehttp://youtube.com/watch?v=Fglg-MptslA -> usb tilt sensor on N810 :)15:27
Takheh, cow orker yesterday was asking me if the ITs had the sensor like the itouch to flip video when you turn it15:29
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Takso, subjectively, does the adblock extension seem "worth it" on the device?15:41
animahavent tested because havent got need for it after modified hosts-file15:42
trickieTak: well if you look at a lot of sites with a lot of ads (flash etc) then it will save bandwidth, memory and render time15:44
Takyes, I get the concept15:44
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TakI'm just wondering, for those who have tried it, whether they've found it worthwhile15:44
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TakI remember hearing a few complaints that it was slower than the browser with all the ads running15:45
trickieah really,15:45
trickieok15:45
trickiei don't use it :)15:45
trickiebut i see noticable performance gain on FF on my PC15:45
booleanwhy not just use /etc/hosts with a list of ad servers pointing too 127.0.0.1 ?15:45
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GeneralAntilleshosts + CSS is much lighter weight and almost as effective.15:47
booleanthere is a general site for a good hosts file -> http://everythinginst.com/hosts.html15:48
* boolean hmms15:48
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booleanis there a loopback on the device ( just got mine yesterday evening  :)15:49
LoCusFyeah15:49
booleanjust looked .. thanks :)15:50
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LoCusFis there a man-page reader for the NIT's?15:54
Takprobably could install the debian-armel man package15:56
Takotoh, there generally aren't any man pages on the ITs anyway...15:56
LoCusFyep15:57
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Takmmm, shiny new sdk16:01
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SDuensinMorning all.16:05
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LoCusFhmm it seems that man-db can't be installed directly from armel sid deb-file since it depends on bsdmainutils16:09
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jumpulawhen installing debs from sid, one should remember that those are compiled with a different compiler, linked against different libraries and the header files used in compilation have probably some delta when compared against itos ones too16:15
LoCusFyep16:16
jumpulaie. you may get your package installed, but no guarantee it'll work16:16
jumpulaand in scratchbox there's an additional nuisance of user space qemu16:16
jumpulaif i remember correctly, with glibc 2.5 upward, the differences between the major glibc versions are not that bad as with the old releases16:17
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jumpulaso, more probable that it'll work, but again, no guarantees :)16:18
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MangoFusionhaven't they finished glibc yet? =/16:22
jumpuladepends what you mean by finished?16:22
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Takalways bugs to fix, optimizations to make, weird platforms to handle16:25
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MangoFusionhaha yes16:29
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Khertan_WorkzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ17:32
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* Tak steal Khertan_Work's wallet and ITs17:33
ynezzIT = internet tablet?17:33
Takyeah, in my usage17:34
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jose__moi, i am trying to build an example program with anjuta and the maemo plugin, but i get some errors when building, do i need to configure any build options? I have the sdk+ also installed, but not the previous sdk18:14
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TakI didn't know there was a maemo anjuta plugin18:18
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jose__here is a link http://anjuta-maemo.garage.maemo.org/18:23
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Takwow, that's cool18:31
Takjose__: I assume you've been through http://anjuta-maemo.garage.maemo.org/user-guide.html18:34
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jose__yes...18:36
jose__i am trying to install the old sdk and see if i can compile with scratchbox in anjuta...18:37
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* pupnik_ has never gotten happy with IDEs18:59
pupnik_hi pH518:59
Veggenanyone have a strings-binary for os2008?19:00
Veggen(nuts, I should get around to setting up a scratchbox-dev-environment again)19:00
pH5hi pupnik_19:01
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pupnik_tak, here's the output of fceu sound when the sexyfilter is removed.  You can see that upstream there is an error created at the beginning of each buffer frame19:05
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pupnik_http://pupnik.de/fceu_nosexyfilter1.png19:05
Takare you sure that's not a header?19:06
pupnik_yes, it occurs throughout playback, and is very audible19:06
pupnik_i'm guessing that is why they slapped on sexyfilter too19:06
pupnik_it occurs independent of sample rate and buffer size19:07
pupnik_i did more tests writing 3 samples of 32000 and the beginning of the buffer and 5 samples of -32000 at the end of the buffer in order to see where it occurs19:07
pupnik_and it happens at the beginning.  the error is 1-3 samples long, but for some reason my code to erase it isn't working yet19:08
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pupnik_without sexyfilter sound is improved excepting that glitch19:09
pupnik_because sexyfilter creates a warble that occurs at each frame19:09
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pupnik_i.e. the filter doesn't take into account data on preceeding and following frames, so you get a bibbering sound19:10
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pupnik_so there are three factors impacting sound quality in this order of occurrence19:11
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pupnik_sound generator (glitch at beginning of frame) -> sexyfilter (warble each frame) -> system-load dependent dropouts on the sound backend19:12
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pupnik_If I fail to solve the problem, i will write up a report with a code overview, code samples and pictures and .wav samples to illustrate19:14
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Navi:319:16
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NaviGotta love pupnik_'s dedication.19:16
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TakI have every confidence that you will arrive at a solution19:18
NaviWe need more pupniks. pupnik_, is it okay if we clone you?19:19
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pupnik_Tak you can hear the sound without the sexyfilter here: http://pupnik.de/Fceu_NoSexyfilter_edgefix01.wav  notice how the warble is gone19:45
NaviSexy19:45
Naviflac :P19:46
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cyberholicHi everyone....19:47
NaviHi cyberholic!19:47
cyberholicIs anyone in here knowing a bit something about the videocenter software? I am wondering why i can not add these podcasts to it.... http://www.gametrailers.com/podcasts.php19:47
cyberholicHi Navi :)19:48
cyberholicHaven`t met you before, right?19:48
NaviNope, but your hello was lame, so I counterbalanced it19:49
cyberholic*smile*19:49
* Navi grins19:49
cyberholicHave you tried out my desktop application - just in case i can get back into game with it ;)19:50
NaviAre those video podcasts?19:50
cyberholicwww.cyberholic.de/maemo19:50
NaviI don't actually own an IT19:50
cyberholicnavi: ah ok. Well, the videos on that page are vodcasts so i thought i can add them to the videocenter "services". And yes, the videocenter seems to recognize and download them, but does not play them.19:51
NaviWhat exactly is videocenter again?19:52
pupnik_m4v?19:53
cyberholic:) .... http://videocenter.garage.maemo.org/19:53
cyberholicpupnik: you mean: the streams are in m4v or does videocenter only accept m4v?19:53
pupnik_are the streams m4v19:54
pH5Did anybody manage to get his hands on an N95 firmware update?19:56
cyberholicA link within the xml looks e.g. like this: http://www.gametrailers.com/podcast/download.mp4?id=30670&amp;type=mp419:56
pupnik_i've seen other people complain of mp4 playback problems cyberholic, that's all I know19:58
X-FadepH5: For what?19:58
pH5X-Fade: to extract the omap2420 powervr driver19:59
glass..19:59
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X-FadepH5: Let me see if it is still on my hd.19:59
glassph5: what good is the one for symbian?19:59
cyberholicthank pupnik20:00
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pH5glass: I'm interested in what registers have to be flipped for the hardware to turn on, that should be the same regardless of OS.20:00
glassah ok..20:00
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Naviglass, if you're into reverse engineering, there's... oh, pH5 responded while I was away20:01
glassi'd view them as extremely hard to find from the symbian binaries20:01
pH5I can turn on the clocks and read the version registers, but nothing else. And I'm not even sure I'm looking at the right memory space right now.20:01
pH5glass: I believe that, but it's better than completely poking around in the dark.20:01
pH5(or so I hope)20:02
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glassph5: please blog if you get as far as to getting right files out of the firmware glob20:03
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kulvepH5: isn't there a power vr driver for some old linux kernel too? Wouldn't that be better?20:16
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pH5kulve: I'm interested in the omap2420 specific parts. once we can talk to the hardware at all, I hope the available omap2430 drivers will be good enough to proceed.20:17
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pH5kulve: now if that old driver is for omap2420...20:17
kulveI think it is..20:17
kulvebesides I think those have the same power vr chip..20:18
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pH5kulve: no. omap2420 has powervr mbx, omap2430 has the mbx lite20:18
pupnik_2430 and 2420 have different chips20:18
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kulvepH5: I though the 2420 has the lite too20:18
pH5and the power manager / clock registers are at completely different locations20:18
pH5so it could be that the powervr register space is moved, too20:18
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jprieurHow can I access the content of the memory card on OS2008?20:34
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ulisesevening people20:35
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kulvejprieur: ls /media/mmcX/ ?20:36
jprieurkulve: I mean, it's not directly accessible from the media player or the file manager, is that normal?20:37
kulveit should be20:37
kulveat least when you don't have the device connected to a PC with the usb cable20:37
jprieurheh, thanks kulve I should have think a bit :)20:38
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booleandid the latest release of OS2008 change the default root password?20:43
NaviWhat's the IT's refresh rate?20:45
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zuhNavi: In technical LCD details, I dunno. In what the memory bandwith to the controller actually allows, the figure is around (but likely below) 20 fullscreen updates per second. I think there's some tests/calculations buried in maemo-devel archives20:49
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NaviOuch.20:49
zuhThen there's the fact that Xomap does it's own throttling by controlling the screen updates and you've got no idea and no control over it with X clients :/20:50
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zuhI did a test with fullscreen solid "blits" & XSync() and it reports insane values and it's visually not what you'd expect.20:53
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NaviI'll have to see for myself20:54
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ulisesjohnx: hey21:03
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lcuk_2for largish files (~1mb) is it worth using memory mapping or dont bother and just read the entire thing?21:33
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Species8472hello, anyone heard about the new Nokia N820 yet?21:43
mgedminthere's a new nokia?21:44
TakNokia nokia = new Nokia();21:45
glassSpecies8472: 820 = the assumed name for the one with wimax?21:47
glassSpecies8472: maybe people would care about that if there were rolled out wimax networks21:47
lcuk_2i thought it was 830 in the reports, but even that just looks like a jpeg artifact for a black fronted 81021:47
felipecglass: there are21:48
mgedminI vaguely seem to remember that the first pictures of the N810 had it with a black front21:48
Species8472so, are you guys going to buy one? I sure am!21:48
lcuk_2bugger that - ive only just got this one21:48
lcuk_2as long as mine isnt obsoleted this quickly i will stay calm21:49
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alteregoIs it possible to change the colours used in xterm?21:53
alterego"easily" ?21:53
mgedminall of them or just the default background/foreground?21:54
lcuk_2one at a time21:54
BTobotrasalterego: man xterm :) Look to X resources.21:54
lcuk_2i hate the gray on white of my own text on the 81021:54
alteregomgedmin, all of them.21:55
alteregoBTobotras, I vaguely remember not being able to do that.21:55
lcuk_2hmmm, the vmware image for maemo includes "GVIM text editor", however when i go to add/remove or synaptic its not selected as installed.  how do i remove it?21:55
mgedminosso-xterm has no relation to xterm21:55
alteregoYes21:55
mgedminalterego: I don't know21:55
alteregoBasically, I can't see certain syntax highlighting.21:55
elbunfortunately21:55
mgedminit's possible that the colours are there in gconf21:55
alteregoSo I need to change some colours.21:55
elbsince it erroneously sets TERM=xterm21:56
BTobotrasalterego: it's easy :) Just try.21:56
alteregoBTobotras, no, it's not.21:56
alteregoBTobotras, your solution will not bear any fruit I'm afraid.21:56
mgedminalterego: you can also change the colours in whatever editor that chooses them wrong21:56
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BTobotrasIs there any tool to figure out working time (OK, time with display turned on) between battery charges?21:56
* BTobotras shrugs21:56
mgedminvim's :set bg=dark/light often helps21:56
alteregomgedmin, it doesn't choose them wrong. The colours just don't get good contrast in the osso-xterm.21:57
mgedmincould you be more specific?21:57
alteregoThe yellow is too bright.21:57
alteregoIt isn't visible when on grey.21:57
lcuk_2sunglasses? ;)21:57
mgedminyellow on grey?21:57
* mgedmin shudders21:57
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mgedminwho picked those colours?21:58
lcuk_2a mad man21:58
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mgedminanyway, osso-xterm is very nearly a clone of gnome-terminal21:58
mgedminit is entirely possible that you might tweak the colour scheme with gconf-editor, if you're brave21:58
alteregoIt shouldn't be yellow on grey. But that is how it is in osso-xterm.21:58
alteregoIt should be dark-yellow on grey :P21:58
mgedminbrown on grey?21:58
* mgedmin shudders again21:58
alteregoIt's not as though it's the entire colour scheme for fuck sake.21:59
BTobotrasalterego: try this one then: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/osso-xterm-advanced/21:59
alteregoIt's just instance variables when they're inside a template tag.21:59
alteregoBTobotras, again, how is that going to help?22:00
BTobotrasalterego: okay, sorry, forget it22:00
alterego:P22:01
alteregoaye aye aye ..22:01
alteregoWithout gconf editor it's gonna be hard to find the information in there. Which, I'm sure isn't even there anyway :P22:01
alteregoI just wanted to know really, if anyone has had any success with doing it.22:01
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mgedminno, we use sane syntax highlighters ;)22:02
alteregoThe problem here isn't the syntax highlighting.22:03
alteregoIt's the stupid choice of colours.22:03
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alteregoIn osso-xterm.22:03
* mgedmin tries gconftool -R / | grep color22:03
* alterego tries 'gconftool -R / | grep colour'22:04
* mgedmin tries gconftool -R /apps/osso/xterm22:04
mgedminlooks like you're out of luck :/22:04
alteregoShocking, I actually got three results :)22:04
alteregoI did say it never used to be in there.22:05
alteregoAdmittedly I hadn't checked until now with OS200822:05
MangoFusionhttp://citp.princeton.edu/memory/ whoah, scary stuff22:05
mgedminthere was once a post on planet gnome about automatically adjusting terminal colours in HSV space to provide best contrast between foreground and background22:06
mgedminwith screenshots22:06
mgedminthat would be nice to have in vte22:06
mgedmin(which is the librarty that both osso-xterm and gnome-terminal use)22:07
derfHSV is not a perceptual color space.22:07
mgedminI might be misremembering details22:08
mgedminthe screenshot looked good22:08
mgedminI can't find the url :(22:08
Takmgedmin: pidgin does that as well22:10
mgedminI think the same guy contributed that feature to pidgin22:10
Takit chooses a set of nick colors with maximum contrast, both to each other, and with respect to the user's theme colors22:10
Takheh, I contributed that feature to pidgin ;-)22:11
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mgedminmaybe we're talking about different things then22:12
Takback when it was gaim-2.0-prebeta-somehugenumber22:12
* Tak shrugs22:12
mgedminthe feature was picking slightly different hues for all 8 "standard" colours to maximize contrast with a particular background colour22:13
mgedminwith results such that even when you requested "white on white" or "black on black" you'd see what was written22:13
ynezzMangoFusion: yea, scary stuff22:13
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mgedminand it was probably xchat and not pidgin that got the patch with this22:14
Takyeah, if it was xchat, I have no idea22:15
BTobotras# internal-temp22:15
BTobotras32.00C22:15
BTobotraswow22:15
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mgedmingoogle fails me22:17
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lcuk_2# external-temp22:24
lcuk_2-800.00C22:24
ulisesvivijim: hey, may I ask you a question?22:26
ulisesvivijim: it's about e17 on n80022:26
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elbif you have a question, ask it, don't ask to ask22:28
ulisesokay, sorry22:28
ulisesanyway22:28
ulisesabout e17 on an IT22:28
Takelb: so...I shouldn't ask you if I can ask to ask a question?22:28
uliseshehe22:28
vivijimhehehehe22:29
ulisesI guess that the procedure might involve compiling the cvs sources inside scratchbox22:29
vivijimulises: ask it22:29
ulisesand the scp-ing your life away22:29
ulisesright?22:29
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elbTak: well, in *that* case, maybe it's OK22:31
vivijimulises: actually I never tried the e17 on IT but I believe that this is the correct procedure22:31
elbthe meta-meta question is a different issue from the meta-question22:31
elbof course22:31
ulisesso your video (randr) is actually enlightenment then?22:31
elbthat is one general approach for installing any software on the tablet, yes22:32
elba more correct approach is to build a package22:32
elbbut note that, in the case of a window manager, you also have to hijack the normal startup sequence to start your window management system insead of the standard maemo system22:32
ulisesindeed22:32
uliseshowever I've deboostrapped a sid22:32
ulisesso no worries there22:32
elbcool22:32
ulisesI was just hoping that someone would have produced packages already22:33
ulisesno joy I guess22:33
elbthen yeah, however you would normally build your software, do that in scratchbox, make sure the dependencies are on the tablet (through apt/etc.), and you can build and copy over22:33
elbI've installed apps to /usr/local, the normal caveats apply22:33
ulisesyeah22:33
ulisesI'll give it a shot22:33
uliseshowever I believe that apple2 tried and it compiled and all22:34
ulisesbut then it segfaulted22:34
uliseswe'll see22:34
uliseseither way, cheers for the help22:34
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hrwmorning22:56
hrwjott: hi22:56
jotthello22:56
hrwjott: thx a lot about keyboard help - I have nice Polish keymap for HW n810 one now22:56
jottsweet22:57
hrwnow need to find time to finally update NOLO to get n810 working properly22:57
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hrwjott: only Fn+Chr combos are hard to get so I do not mapped them (are same as Fn ones)22:57
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jotthm yeah i do not use them either (did not even try to map them as they are too hard to press physically)22:59
jotthrw: you plan to flash the 51-3 nolo or something different?23:01
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hrwjott: 51-3 one23:01
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jotthas anyone actually checked what the difference in the rootfs is?23:02
hrwno idea23:02
jott(as md5sum differ)23:02
hrwthat means nothing23:03
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hrwrootfs use compression which can be different each time23:03
jottnot really indeed.. just that it's not the exact same image ;)23:03
hrwyou need to compare /var/lib/dpkg/status of both rootfs images23:03
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jottyeah i need to update/patch my host system kernel for LZO support in jffs2 first ...23:04
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hrw;)23:06
hrwok, flasher started now 1h wait for n810 to power on ;(23:06
pH5secondary NOLO is the same, only xloader and 2nd changed?23:07
hrwpH5: no idea23:08
hrwI just know from one nokia guy that bug was in bootloader23:08
hrwwhich part of it I do not know23:08
* hrw -> movie23:08
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jotthttp://pastebin.ca/913122 <- md5sums of 50-2/51-323:09
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pH5jott: thanks, I guess I'll just flash all of them then, for good measure.23:10
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BTobotrasAnybody programmed bluez on maemo?23:15
jku__BTobotras, yeah, a bit23:15
livindedI've done bluez programming on linux23:15
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livindedand I'm currently working on a chat application over bluetooth that I'm going to port to maemo23:16
BTobotrasjku__: what's wrong with hci_open_dev( hci_get_route( NULL ) ) ?23:16
apple2 /INVITE #e17on770 vivijim23:16
apple2sorry23:16
livindedBTobotras: that should worl23:17
livindedwork*23:17
jku__BTobotras, sorry, I've just used bluez-dbus23:18
livindedwhat is hci_get_route() returning?23:18
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livindedif it's not a valid device id it's not going to be able to open a socket23:18
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livindedjku__: what is bluez-dbus?23:19
BTobotraslivinded: hci_get_route: No such device23:20
BTobotraslivinded: -1, that is23:20
livindedBTobotras: so it's not finding a device, are you sure it's enabled?23:20
jku__BTobotras, what the name suggests :) http://wiki.bluez.org/23:21
* BTobotras slaps himself on the head23:21
livindedpersonally I wouldn't call hci_open_dev() like that because you can't handle the event when a device id isn't returned23:21
BTobotraslivinded: I'm an idiot!23:21
jku__:)23:21
livindedjku__: is it the python api or is it a C api?23:22
BTobotrasHow do I enable BT, btw? :) If I disable it, status bar icon disappears...23:22
vivijimapple2: there's nobody there23:22
livindedI don't know anything about maemo yet, but you can try manually changing the value in /proc23:22
BTobotraslivinded: which one?23:23
derfBTobotras: Look in the control panel.23:23
BTobotrasderf: 10x23:24
* BTobotras is idiot twice23:24
jku__livinded, iI don't understand... D-Bus is usable from both...23:25
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jku__no bindings for either IIRC23:25
livindedjku__: sorry, I just read the page on the wiki, I haven't done really any bluetooth development since 2.x before they tied dbus support into bluez23:26
jku__python doesn't need them and even C wasn't that bad at least in what I needed it for23:26
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livindedI guess I need to read more into the dbus support and see if it's worth using it to do the communication rather than the straight C api23:27
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BTobotrashci_read_remote_name hands, hmm23:28
pupnik_i'm kind of happy we have workable ruby, python but no java23:28
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livindedtheres a ruby interpreter on maemo?23:28
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pupnikyeah with graphics and stuff it's hawt23:28
jottand we hava java :)23:29
jotthave23:29
unique311_do we?23:29
pupnikno no we don't no ...no...23:30
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jottsure.. the jalimo packages23:30
pupnikshush23:30
BTobotrasWhat are we using instead of cron?23:31
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BTobotraslibalarm and our own daemons?23:33
jku__libalarm should be usable for timed events, not exactly cron replacement though23:33
jku__you can execute a file or send a dbus message, etc. on alarm23:34
BTobotrasYep.23:34
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jku__own daemons are considered evil by some nokia guys23:36
jku__ (nokia has so many of their own running already :) )23:36
jku__I  do agree with them, seriously speaking.23:36
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BTobotrasWhy gettext.h isn23:42
BTobotrasWhy gettext.h isn't in /usr/include? :)23:42
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BTobotrasAh, it's libintl23:45
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hrw|tvyes!23:47
hrw|tvnew nolo works nice here23:47
jku__no fridge needed?23:47
hrw|tvsudo ../flasher-3.0 -x xloader.bin-RX-44\:0801\,0802\,0803\,0804\,0805\,0806\,0901\,0902 -s secondary.bin-RX-44\:0801\,0802\,0803\,0804\,0805\,0806\,0901\,0902 -2 2nd.bin-RX-44\:0801\,0802\,0803\,0804\,0805\,0806\,0901\,0902 -f -R23:47
hrw|tvthats whole magic23:47
hrw|tvjku__: nope23:48
lcuk_2does it show the perl camel ?23:48
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hrw|tvjku__: now it just power on/off like it should23:48
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uliseshello all23:55
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