IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-02-20

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elbthe price is still too high00:00
elbfor the fact that, out of the box, it doesn't really *do* anything00:00
milhouselcuk: and it has too many flaws, limitations, rough edges...00:00
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milhouseelb: the 770 became good value in the end00:00
pH5they should cut the price by the percentage of unused transistors on the omap242000:00
GeneralAntilleselb, it browses the internet better than any other mobile device in this size range that I've ever used.00:00
lcuk_3the lcd interface by the way can do movie display at 30fps because it uses a REDUCED (color) resolution display image, sending over only 12 bits of information.  if you try that with a full 16 bit rgb interface (which possibly the powervr might put out) then it casnt keep up00:00
elbit's only salable to people who recognize the fact that a general-purpose computer in your pocket is Just Plain Cool :-)00:00
elbGeneralAntilles: that's damning with faint praise if I've ever heard it :-)00:01
lcuk_3milhouse, i agree about the rough edges - its a tinkerers dream tho :)00:01
elbmilhouse: yeah, the 800 is rapidly on its way to being at a good consumer price point00:01
lcuk_3its good enough to become a house computer - when one is busy its available00:01
GeneralAntilleselb, it's already there.00:02
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elbGeneralAntilles: at $230?00:02
elbI think it's still too high for anyone who doesn't want a gadget for gadget's sake00:02
lcuk_3i found out today i can buy a latop for £10000:02
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milhouselcuk: i'd like to see the next device become a dockable desktop computer, a desktop replacement much as laptops have become desktop replacements - pop it in a docking station and work with using a full size keyboard, mouse, video screen... I think IBM created such a concept about 10 years ago00:03
* lcuk_3 might get a touchkit for it00:03
elbwhile it's a better web surfer than other mobile devices, it's still not in the same league as a real computer00:03
pH5lcuk_3: it is possible that the powervr supports yuv420 surfaces, at least the 2d blitting library seems to have support for that.00:03
GeneralAntilleselb, and it doesn't cost anywhere near the price of a real computer. :P00:03
elbGeneralAntilles: that's not at all true00:03
elbyou can buy a real computer at Wal*Mart for $20000:03
lcuk_3i sure hope so, but upon reflection 640*480 might be speedy enough00:03
GeneralAntillesThat's not a real computer.00:03
elbsure it is00:03
GeneralAntillesThat's a pile of junk parts.00:03
elbit's a better web surfer than the n81000:03
lcuk_3course it is GeneralAntilles, its just not a mobile one00:04
elbit's not *portable*, but that portability carries too much price00:04
elbwhen I think about the non-gadget friends and family I have, I can't see selling any of them an n800 for $20000:04
elbthey'll all say "why would I want to surf the web on a tiny screen and fuss over clicking links with my fingernail or a stylus?"00:04
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elbI mean, don't get me wrong -- I think it's awesome, and I think that with the right software it will go a long way00:05
elbbut I don't think it's ready for general consumption00:05
GeneralAntillesNor does Nokia.00:05
milhousethis is what i want the Nokia Tablet to become:
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milhouse(slightly smaller, naturally!)00:06
elbsure, Nokia isn't even pushing for general consumption00:06
GeneralAntillesmilhouse, that holds absolutely no appeal for me.00:06
elbwhat is this, like step 3 of at least 5 steps?00:06
GeneralAntillesThere's no way on earth any sort of ARM could keep up with what I do with my real computers.00:07
felipecelb: yeap00:07
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milhouseGA: I think it could replace the desktop for many people in time, and they carry their information everywhere (or at least, carry the device that provides access to their information everywhere)00:07
milhouseGA: Won't appeal to "power" desktop users though, i accept that.00:07
elb99% of what I do with my real computers, the n810 is *plenty* fast enough to do00:07
GeneralAntillesThere's no way it would replace a real computer for anybody but my grandmother.00:07
GeneralAntillese-mail, web, office . . . maybe.00:08
elbmy laptop spends more time as a glorified X terminal than anything else00:08
GeneralAntillesBut everybody else I know either does games, or multimedia, or creative stuff, etc.00:08
milhousemy brother was here yesterday - said all he needs is email, web and occasional word processing.00:08
elbthen you don't know enough computer scientists ;-)00:08
milhousefor him, a fully blown Pentium Dual Core is complete overkill00:08
pupnik_it's 2008.  where are the high res VR goggles00:08
elbI don't use PCs for games, I gave that up years ago -- it's a nightmare00:08
pupnik_i can't believe we don't have 1600x1200 vr goggles yet00:08
lcuk_3GeneralAntilles, remember, for YEARS we lived with computer software which fitted an architecture and ran WELL.  i could do spreadsheets on an 8mhz machine.  sure, you cant run the latest fancy version of something, but that doesnt mean it will end up as bad software00:09
elbmultimedia ... it would be nice to be able to play web-type video clips with some reliability, I'll grant that, but I suspect that's more a software problem than a hardware limitation00:09
pupnik_well put lcuk_300:09
lcuk_3i played games and enjoyed them on slow machines00:09
pupnik_this explains you hacking framebuffer :)00:09
elbanything past that, I have a computer in my living room that I use to play multimedia stuff on a real screen and speakers00:09
pupnik_lcuk_3: isn't it depressing how a sidey-scroller on a 200-400mhz machine can't keep up 30fps?00:10
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elbso ... emacs, latex, and a C compiler, and I'm ready to get real work done :-)00:10
pupnik_well that's the price of portability and rapid development00:10
lcuk_3absolutely (but give me cygnus editor back from my amiga)00:10
elbI've been wishing for *years* that someone would produce a 500MHz or so ARM laptop that got 12h of battery life and was light enough to want to cart around00:11
felipecpupnik_: of course it can do 30fps... depending on the resolution :)00:11
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elbthe iBook dual-USB reincarnated on modern manufacturing with modern batteries and disks would be *perfect* for me00:12
pupnik_elb: yeah it's a crying shame Psion died00:12
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elbso ... an n810 seems like plenty of power :-)00:12
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lcuk_3its not fast enough if you consider trying to run bloatware on them. we have to think of ways to get apps running smoothly - pupnik is working really well with his dosbox and finding neat tricks, elb is bashing his way into the powervr and im just wandering around trying to see how it all clicks together00:13
lcuk_3i hope the lurkers are busy ;)00:14
maddlerdoh... at last! restore finished!!!00:14
pupnik_it's been nice to see the activity on the haxxorish side in the past few months00:14
lcuk_3you have restored: faith in humanity00:14
maddlerlcuk_3: hehehe...00:14
lcuk_3well i got this little box to do everything i could with it00:15
maddlerlcuk_3: if you were it Italy... you wouldn't trust humanity! :D00:15
pupnik_maybe someday someone should make a bastard device with broken psion netbook cases and n800 cores00:15
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milhouseport IT OS to Netbooks! :)00:16
milhouserun for hours... might not be very fast.00:16
pupnik_the screen and cpu are just painful now00:16
GeneralAntillesIt's too bad Nokia didn't position maemo for more devices.00:16
pupnik_yeah the battery was awesome00:16
pupnik_agree with GeneralAntilles00:16
* johnx agrees with GeneralAntilles 00:16
johnxit's too bad they kept the source to so many random odds and ends00:17
pupnik_anybody got the latest skinny of linux on the netbook pro?00:17
jku__johnx, amen, It just slows everyone down and gives Nokia nothing00:17
pupnik_it employes lawyers maybe :)00:18
milhouseNokia needs competition00:18
milhouseAnd it shall have it soon enough00:18
lcuk_3its got it00:18
johnxno one blames them for closed source wifi...but closed source brightness applet?!00:18
lcuk_3the 2420 developers working at symbian on the other nseries00:18
GeneralAntillesLike I said, the dinosaurs need to die off.00:18
milhouselcuk: who - in terms of mobile linux in a similar form factor?00:18
milhouse(apart from apple and the iPhone!)00:20
lcuk_3archos devices are similar spec00:20
lcuk_3cheaper price00:20
milhousebut not open00:20
milhousemight be linux... not really sure00:20
pupnik_i used my n810 as a flashlight today to light up a car undercarriage to tow it away00:20
johnxat least one was linux00:20
johnxI think it's still stuck on a 2.4 kernel00:20
lcuk_3lol pupnik - max brightness i hope00:21
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MangoFusionrather expensive flashlight ;)00:21
lcuk_3yes, but think about how many people who need a flashlight (and also a quick browse on the internet) and would snap up the chance of paying out that little bit more for a "deluxe" model00:22
jku__maddler, so you decided to announce the update for Nokia00:23
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elblcuk_3: I don't use bloatware :-)00:29
elbwell, except for emacs, of course00:29
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pupnik_man oprofile kernel is so fun00:31
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lcuk_3technical thinking.  is it plausable to create an SDL application on windows with vc6 and make the same source compilable on scratchbox with gcc ?00:45
maddlerjku__: why not?00:46
maddlerthere was a thread on ITT as well...00:46
Kheruwhy if i click on MD5SUM from  it download(and save) MD5SUM,  (with comma)  ?00:48
lcuk_3all filenames appear with a comma, and you can also change the week number to anything arbitary and it still offers a download00:48
lcuk_3(on the actual bin file)00:49
maddlerKheru: yep... I had a comma added to flasher download too...00:49
maddlerdunno... sounds like a typo in the download script00:49
lcuk_3or the start of a new parameter - the download is a function and not a direct download00:50
EruditeH1rmitjust finished upgrading00:50
Kherulcuk_3, good php coder ... ;)00:50
EruditeH1rmitI notice NO difference =p00:50
EruditeH1rmitbut I am sure there were bugfixes00:50
GeneralAntillesMara on ITT seemed to think that this was pretty much only a change for the power-on issue.00:52
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EruditeH1rmitGeneralAntilles: does the tablet slow down as you use up more memory?00:54
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GeneralAntillesEr, well, if it starts swapping heavily, yes.00:54
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EruditeH1rmitat what point will it do that?00:55
GeneralAntillesWhen the RAM fills up completely with necessary data. . . .00:55
johnxEruditeH1rmit, or were you talking about the internal storage memory?00:56
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EruditeH1rmitinternal storage memory00:56
EruditeH1rmitI am almost out00:56
EruditeH1rmitbecause of all the stuff I have installed00:56
GeneralAntillesDelete the PDFs.00:56
johnxand that tour movie00:57
johnxor advertisement or whatever it is00:57
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johnxalthough I don't completely understand jffs2 or the way blocks are allocated on the flash...if it's like other filesystems, writes may get slower when it's very close to full00:58
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lcuk_3the internal memory is like a small fixed size hard drive with your operating system on.  clear as much none essential things off or uninstall unused programs to make sure you have enough space.  move data onto an external or extension memory stick or consider moving your boot drive onto into a larger memory stick01:00
EruditeH1rmitwell does it follow the general rule that after 90% it will get slower01:00
lcuk_3i would assume it would do01:01
johnxEruditeH1rmit, I don't honestly know01:01
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johnxit doesn't face the same penalty for seek times that mechanical media do01:01
lcuk_3no, but the code has to branch more to follow chains01:02
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nwidgerhello, anyone around?02:00
elb260 people are around02:01
elbif you have a question, ask it, and someone will probably answer :-)02:01
nwidgerwords of wisdom :)02:01
elbwith 260 people, generally small talk doesn't get you very far ;-)02:01
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nwidgerim just wondering if there are any good word processors for the n810 that can edit .doc files?02:01
nwidgeri know there's an old abiword port, but is it stable and will in run on the n810?02:02
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johnxthere's a new abiword port too02:04
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johnxin beta right now02:04
nwidgerjohnx: cool!  any chance you could get me a link?02:04
* Mousey huggles maemo devels02:04
johnxnwidger, I'll find the thread on itt, it's a semi-closed beta so you have to pm/email someone to get in on it02:04
nwidgerjohnx: hmmm, ok02:04
johnxnot sure of the usability yet (haven't tried it)02:05
nwidgerjohnx: thank you! :)02:07
johnxno need to re-read the whole thread. most of it is historical...02:07
nwidgerso who should i pm asking for entrance to the beta?02:09
johnxyes...he does tell you to PM him to get on the beta :)02:09
megabyte405pm me for access to the beta :)02:09
megabyte405apologies for such a long thread but I figured it was best to keep it all in one place so that people didn't get lost creating a new thread02:09
megabyte405I know that every time someone made a new AbiWord thread it took me a while to find it, and I was working on the crazy thing :)02:10
megabyte405It's a closed beta only in that I don't feel right letting just anybody install it without giving them a stern precaution and a request to file bugs02:10
* elb returns to the "forums are a shitty way to communicate" topic of earlier ;-)02:10
nwidgermegabyte405: by pm do you mean pm on the forums or via irc?02:11
johnxelb, someone put up a yahoo group or something. :P02:11
nwidgeroh, sorry :P02:11
megabyte405well, there is an AbiWord mailing list, but as much as I try, I don't really ever see anyone form the maemo community show up there.02:11
megabyte405I just reply to those in an asynchronous fashion02:11
megabyte405so that's really the best/only way for me to do it02:12
elbjohnx: hah02:12
nwidgermegabyte405: i dont have an account on the forums... egh02:12
megabyte405ah well you'll want one sooner or later02:12
elbif nothing else, so you can set the css to something amenable to tablet viewage ;-)02:12
megabyte405sooner since I request that folks subscribe to that thread so I don't aveh to send 6 pms each with 5 recipients every time I do an update02:12
megabyte405I'm out for the night - looking forward to hearing from you nwidger and anybody else, esp. if they're handy with GDB and/or maemo02:13
elbI assume they also have to want to use a word processor?02:13
megabyte405not necessarily02:13
johnxelb, all they need is to make a word processor crash :)02:13
megabyte405if they just want to debug that's fine with me too, don't really care if they actually use it once it works :D02:13
nwidgermegabyte405: sent :)02:13
megabyte405heck, if I get a debian packaging wizard who drops by with a nice debian folder for the abiword plugins I'd be happy too02:14
maddlermegabyte405: is there an OS2008 build as well?02:14
megabyte4052008 and 200702:14
megabyte405in theory 2006 should also work, but in practice I have slow internet02:14
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megabyte405later all02:16
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elbthe internet was pretty fast in 2006, already02:20
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s_tecI have an n800 running OS2008. Is there some way to ssh in? The "OpenSSH client and server" package on maemo doesn't want to install.02:21
johnxit should install02:23
johnxit works for a lot of other people02:23
elbwhat do you mean by "doesn't want to install"02:23
johnxis it not downloading?02:23
s_tecI get "Unable to install openssh. Incompatible application package."02:24
sbaturziomaddler: still there?02:24
johnxs_tec, which openssh are you trying to install?02:26
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johnxit should be available inside application manager once you enable the extras repository...02:26
s_tec"OpenSSH client and server" from
elbyeah, don't do that02:27
elbgo to your application manager and uncheck 'disable' on maemo extras02:27
elbthen install it from there02:27
elbit should go fine02:27
elbI don't know why the one on is busted, but it doesn't install for me either02:27
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s_tecOk, thanks.02:28
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maddlersbaturzio: yess02:34
sbaturziomaddler: have you tried the new OS2008?02:34
sbaturziogood news?02:34
maddlerdidn't find any noticeable change though02:34
sbaturzioonly bugfixes?02:34
maddlerwell... it works and won't brick you device! :D02:34
maddlerisn't it enough? :D02:35
sbaturziowell..a really annoying bugfix could be the thumb keyboard: using the finger it's hard to open it02:35
sbaturziodid you tried it?02:35
maddlerI'm on n81002:35
sbaturzioooops...sorry: just forgot02:36
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sbaturziowell...ok: I'll try it tomorrow02:36
elbsbaturzio: you just have to tap like a NINJA02:36
sbaturzioon my N80002:36
sbaturzioelb: a ninja? :)02:36
sbaturziofast and furious? :D02:36
elbfast and hard02:36
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sbaturzionaaaaah....previous OS versions were much better than this02:37
GeneralAntillesJust use the center d-pad02:38
GeneralAntillesThumb-activated has NEVER been reliable.02:38
ds3is it possible to use scanned maps in GIF/JPG/PNG/TIFF/etc format with maemo-mapper v2?02:38
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sbaturzioGeneralAntilles: yes I know, but if I'm holding the N800 with left hand, usually my left thumb is used to keep it in a position that don't let me reach the button easily02:39
sbaturzioand using the finger on the screen was much more easy than the center dpad02:39
maddlersbaturzio: get an N810? :D02:41
sbaturzio(argh....s/is used to keep it in a position/is placed in a position/   sorry)02:41
sbaturziomaddler: only for the mechanic keyboard? naaa...not enough02:41
jga23anybody know a good tutorial on creating packages for python?  the one on seems dated02:42
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maddlersbaturzio: indeed...02:43
sbaturzioanyway...just downloaded the new OS image, tomorrow I'll try it02:44
sbaturzionow is time to sleep02:44
sbaturziothanks to *02:44
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ds3okay, prehaps I should ask -- anyone have Maemo Mapper v1 DEBs for OS2008?03:01
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GeneralAntillesThere was a thread on ITT yesterday.03:02
GeneralAntillesSomebody put together a more efficient filesystem storage method03:02
GeneralAntillesended up porting 1.4 in the process.03:02
ds3it really sucks that maemo-mapper v2 don't seem to allow a easy way to handle scanned mapps03:03
ds3got official scanned USGS Topo maps that would be ideal03:03
maddlertime to hit the bed...03:04
maddlerbefore my wife sues me! :D03:04
maddlerlater dudes...03:04
ds3this is what I get for not doing daily searches of ITT ;)03:04
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rkabiranyone have any idea why my n810 is super slow to boot?03:07
rkabirit hangs on the "NOKIA" screen before the boot noise and hand screen03:07
johnxdefine "super slow". how long is it taking?03:09
ds3GaneralAntilles: thanks. that seems to be pretty much what I am looking for.03:09
GeneralAntillesrkabir, friend had trouble with swap + corrupted internal card and slow boots.03:10
rkabirjohnx: a minute maybe? i'll have to time it03:10
GeneralAntillesWhy are you turning it off, anyway?03:11
johnxso about 1 minute total to boot?03:11
johnxthat sounds like my normal boot times...03:11
rkabirGeneralAntilles: good call on the card, I'll check it out. I turn it off to conserve power03:11
GeneralAntillesTurning it off to conserve power is stupid.03:11
rkabirjohnx: oh, huh. maybe it's unfair for me to compare boot times of a clean system to one with a bunch of apps installed?03:11
GeneralAntillesYou end up using more power shutting down and booting.03:12
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johnxrkabir, it depends on what you installed03:12
johnxGeneralAntilles, that would depend on how long he's not using it for03:12
rkabirGeneralAntilles: so then, i should do offline mode, and lock screen and keys?03:12
GeneralAntillesPretty much03:12
rkabiri turn off overnight when not charging (i know, i know - i can charge every night)03:12
GeneralAntillesunless you're leaving it off for more than 24 hours.03:12
rkabiroh wtf - it just booted in less than 10 seconds03:13
rkabirfor the past few days it's taken 1-2 minutes03:13
GeneralAntillesOn the charger?03:13
johnxrkabir, do you have ssh server installed? or a web server or something that starts at boot?03:14
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rkabir_GeneralAntilles: maybe it was the swap thing you spoke of, and it was cleared?03:15
rkabir_sorry abou tthat - my connection died03:16
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rkabirmaybe it's the memory card03:16
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GeneralAntillesCould be03:17
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GeneralAntillesLot of N810s shipped with badly formatted internal cards.03:17
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rkabiri'm guessing there's no fsck on maemo?03:20
johnxyou mean included or available?03:23
johnxit comes with fsck.vfat and I'm sure fsck.ext2 is available03:23
rkabirhmm ok03:24
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rkabiri get malloc issues - but i'll mess around with checking the memory card via my desktop instead03:27
rkabiryou guys have been a great help03:27
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MaxMaxMaxHi all04:42
MaxMaxMaxnot sure where to ask about it, but I"m one of the winners of the N810 maemo04:44
MaxMaxMaxdevice program but my discount code (both the "old" one and the new one I got on 11/12/07) aren't working on the shop I selected during my application. Is this normal at that time?04:44
GeneralAntilles"winners"? :P04:44
GeneralAntillese-mail Nokia.04:44
GeneralAntillesWe can't make them work.04:44
MaxMaxMaxah, so it's not just me?04:44
GeneralAntillesDunno, most everybody has used theirs already.04:45
MaxMaxMaxdamn.. :S I just sent a mail to the Nokia consumer care of my online shop04:45
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MaxMaxMaxthanks for your answers GeneralAntilles04:53
MaxMaxMaxtoo bad I can't get my N810 right now :S04:54
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lcuk_3i've heard of cygwin for windows.  if i install this does it mean i can then install and run scratchbox compiling tools (not the simulator) directly on windows?05:00
GeneralAntillesGood luck with that.05:01
GeneralAntillesIn theory, yes.05:01
GeneralAntillesIn practice, you're probably better off just cutting a body part off with a rusty hack-saw and calling it a day.05:01
lcuk_3i have found a much better ide which works well in windows (and linux too but thats defeating what i want to do05:02
GeneralAntillesWhy are you using Windows, anyway? :P05:02
rghoshqemu on windows is in alpha stage05:02
lcuk_3because its actually quite stable05:02
rghoshscratchbox uses qemu for cross-compiling05:02
lcuk_3it runs well, and my dayjob depends upon my knowledge of it05:03
rghoshso it may not go very smoothly if at all05:03
lcuk_3ahhh damn05:03
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lcuk_3but im currently running inside a vmware box so i'm already at minimum speed05:04
lcuk_3its weather it would break even05:04
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tigruxCould anyone try my package? It is tablet-tuber as some suggested instead of yt-viewer.05:09
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tigruxPackages, source code and one-click-installer is there.05:10
tigrux* are there05:10
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dick-richardsonWhen using vnc viewer on my n810, all text entered is double entered on the there a key timing setting or something I can adjust?05:43
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johnxtigrux, works fine here, but the video is pretty slow06:12
tigruxjohnx: Yea, very unfortunated.06:13
johnxthe UI is incredibly fast though06:13
johnxhave you seen flv playback in mplayer?06:14
johnxit's pretty fast06:15
tigruxI sill don't why the video is slow. Because in a desktop runs very good.06:15
tigruxjohnx: Try installing the .deb in your ubuntu gutsy system.06:15
johnxand it's only using 48% the processing power on the tablet06:16
johnxbut top claims it's using 95% of the available memory (!!)06:16
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NaviGotta be a bit more memory-friendly there.06:25
tigruxjohnx: What? My program?06:25
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johnxyes :)06:25
tigruxjohnx: By the way, were you who suggested naming it tablet-tuber?06:26
johnxtop might be lying to me...I'm going to install atop06:26
Navioh, top doesn't count cached memory as free memory06:26
johnxyeah :)06:26
Naviso it'll be inaccurate :P06:26
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tigruxjohnx: Thanks, I like the name.06:27
tigruxjohnx: I still need an icon though.06:27
tigruxjohnx: I think you also suggested use conic. Thanks!06:28
johnxthat was someone else :)06:28
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tigruxjohnx: Ey! top is a liar.06:28
johnxok, that's good to hear06:28
johnxstill, I'll try and get atop installed06:29
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tigruxAccording to it, maemo-launcher is using 81% and osso-media-serv 40%06:29
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johnxstill, very interesting that it doesn't appear CPU limited06:34
tigruxjohnx: Yea, it's not about cpu. There is a problem elsewhere.06:35
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_darchello all07:09
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fysahow about USB -> Wireless USB Dongle -> Wireless USB Receiver -> USB Audio Speakers07:38
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fysaor wireless USB to USB SPDIF output to receiver.07:39
fysathat would give you wireless home/whole house audio.07:39
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vlad_hey folks, quick question... doing a dist-upgrade wants to remove osso-software-version, is that bad times?08:20
GeneralAntillesDon't do any apt-get dist-upgrade or upgrading.08:22
vlad_er, really?08:23
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GeneralAntillesIt breaks things.08:25
vlad_how so? the updater app is essentially doing apt/dpkg operations08:26
GeneralAntillesITOS isn't set up to be upgraded through apt.08:26
GeneralAntillesUpgrading through apt frequently does funny things when packages get upgraded to broken things.08:26
GeneralAntillesJust don't do it.08:27
vlad_well, sure, if things get updated wrong, then yes08:27
GeneralAntillesand things frequently will.08:27
GeneralAntillesso don't do it.08:27
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RaghuI iinstalled the last firmware , and it seems09:19
Raghuthat there is a bug in the clock application.What can help me?09:19
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tigruxRaghu: What bug?09:22
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:54
maddlermorning all11:55
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_berto_bom dia12:02
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JaffaMorning, all12:27
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maddlermegabyte405_: goodmorning! :)12:40
megabyte405_I sent the stuff12:40
EoFsomebody had problems with the KDE installation on n810?12:40
EoFwith "impossible update" error?12:40
EoFon the first file installation (local-mmc1)12:41
maddlermegabyte405_: yep... seen... was trying to answer but ITT somehow refuses to send the reply! :D12:42
megabyte405_no worries12:43
megabyte405_if it's a problem that might affect more people, file a bug if applicable, and/or post to that thread12:43
megabyte405_I'm subscribed and you should be too :)12:43
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Khertan_TheRealHi all !13:25
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* PyGTKEditor_Addi grrrrrrrrrrrrrr13:26
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lcuk_3mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Py13:27
lcuk_3hi khert13:28
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Khertan_Workhi lcuk_313:33
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Khertan_Worksomeone know what have been made in the last firmware update ?13:35
Khertan_Workchanges log ?13:36
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MangoFusionthe version number has been increased13:36
Khertan_Workpffff ... they have been increadible fast to change the version number !13:37
jku__Khertan_Work, it fixes the power on issue some people are having, supposedly nothing else13:37
Khertan_Workah ok ... so has mine never reboot :) i don't know if i ve this problem :)13:38
Khertan_Workthnks for the infos and the link.13:38
Ziccan someone give me a reason to tell my friend why Nokia 770 is no more supported by Maemo ?13:38
ZicOS2008 is not available for 77013:38
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GeneralAntillesIt is, too.13:38
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Zicuh ?13:38
jku__Zic, because it's old hardware and we can't expect N to support things indefinitely?13:40
jku__We _could_ expect open source HW drivers so Nokia stopping support  wouldn't be so bad, but that's another story...13:41
dpb__GeneralAntilles: HE isn't actually supported, it's just a hacked up version.13:42
jku__Zic, not just old -- also the first HW revision of a new hardware type.13:42
dpb__plus: "All built-in applications start and run including VoIP but overall the device is not responsive and reliable enough for serious usage."13:42
Zicok, I will tell him, but I think it's not a good reason : most of opensource project continue to support old hardware, but yeah, there is another story with Nokia drivers, I know13:42
johnxhmm...probably more a lack of large chunks of ITOS being open sourced rather than anything in the kernel this time13:42
GeneralAntillesdpb__, have YOU tried it? :)13:42
GeneralAntillesWorks great over here.13:42
dpb__Nope. I don't use my 770.13:43
johnxZic, large chunks of Maemo aren't open sourced13:43
jku__Zic, exactly: 770 is not an open source project13:43
Zichmm, an hacked version of ITOS2008 exist for Nokia 770 ?13:43
GeneralAntillesDid you click the link I sent?13:43
johnxyup, Nokia did the work, but there are limitations to how much old hardware can support new software with new features (read: bloat)13:44
Zicjohnx & jku__ : yes, I know, it's why I started the adventure of Maemo with a Nokia N80013:44
johnxbecause parts of it are closed source?13:44
ZicI knew 770 before the N800, but most part was closed …13:44
johnxdifferent parts are closed now, maybe a little more, maybe a little less13:45
ZicGeneralAntilles: thanks for the link13:45
johnxif I'd known how much of it was closed I probably would have stuck to my Zaurus, honestly...13:45
ZicGeneralAntilles: it works well ?13:45
GeneralAntillesWorks fine for my purposes.13:45
GeneralAntillesBetter than OS2006 or OS2007HE.13:45
Zic<GeneralAntilles> Works great over here. <= My question is more « It's like OS2008 of N8*0 plateform ?13:46
Zicsorry, poor english speaker here ;)13:46
GeneralAntillesNot sure how to answer that, no, it's not exactly the same functionality as OS2008 on an N8x0, but it's probably about the best it can be considering the 770's hardware.13:47
ZicGeneralAntilles: or for the old hardware, it's a « small and lightweight » release ?13:47
GeneralAntillesIt's not been trimmed down, really, no.13:47
Zicok, thanks for your answer, I will tell my friend ;)13:47
jku__Zic, not really13:47
GeneralAntillesMostly it's just combining the 770 parts of OS2006 with OS2008.13:48
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Zicother question from me, this time : the N800 is designed to going unmaintened like the 770 in a far, (far far, I hope) future ?13:49
Zicbecause N810 was started, I want to say13:49
GeneralAntillesSupport has been guaranteed through OS200913:49
ZicN800 is more opensourced, so, it's my question ;)13:50
GeneralAntillesMy guess is that it'll go beyond that.13:50
Zicthanks ;)13:50
dpb__the N810 is quite close to N800, so N800 will probably be supported as long as N81013:51
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johnxN800 is still missing a lot of source, including wireless driver and bluetooth driver. It is also missing source code for many applications and key parts of the desktop, as well as the battery charging support.13:52
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trickieit is not possible to modify the bootloader on a n800 is it? So i couldn't ever run a kernel that didn't need a initfs?13:55
johnxhmm...could kexec be a solution to that?13:56
johnxthat's pretty hacky though13:56
johnxthe bigger problem is that if you don't run bme the battery won't charge13:56
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Zicjohnx: sorry, I was afk, => « N800 is still missing a lot of source, including wireless driver and bluetooth driver. It is also missing source code for many applications and key parts of the desktop, as well as the battery charging support. » What key part of the desktop ?14:03
johnxthis is a long list...14:03
Zichardware code is not my problem, I don't know « how to touch it »14:03
Zicbut part of the desktop …14:04
ZicI only know about mini-Opera browser14:04
Zicbut, in OS 2008, it's a mozilla based navigator, isnt'it ?14:04
Zicisn't it*14:05
johnxmost statusbar applets, including volume and brightness (probably more), the browser and communications menus on the left bar, most of the home applets14:05
johnxbrowser UI, parts of calculator, lots of media player14:05
Zichmm, in OS2008, I suspect (except for hardware software) only mapper, thanks for your infos14:06
johnxthere is more without source14:06
ZicI suspected*14:06
johnxmost of the settings panel I think14:07
ZicIt's why restricted meta package is necessary to have a complede hildon desktop ?14:07
Zicfrom Nokia repository ?14:07
Zicbinary package …14:07
Zicok, thanks ;)14:07
johnxmost of the binary-only stuff isn't in any repository14:08
johnxwhen Nokia drops support for the N800 it will be no different than how the 770 is now14:08
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Tama^2>.> hopefully the new release will fix the battery problem on my N800, wishful thinking14:09
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johnxTama^2, battery problems?14:10
Ziclast question, an other subject : do you know about Ubuntu Mobile version ? It's dedicated to some UMPC like Samsung Q1 Ultra, which is more a PC than an Internet Tablet like the N80014:10
Zicdo you know if it's compatible with N800 ?14:10
johnxZic, there is no ARM version of Ubuntu Mobile as far as I know14:10
Tama^2yeah, as soon as I stick an sdcard in he battery drains way faster14:11
ZicI know that Qtopia port exist for N80014:11
Tama^2even when I leave it idle14:11
johnxalso, ubuntu mobile's memory requirements will probably be a little high for the N80014:11
Tama^2we are talking 10x power consumption14:11
Zicjohnx: hmm, true, I don't realize about ARM proc of N800 :}14:11
Tama^2even if the sdcards are umounted14:11
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johnxI guess I should test on mine to see if that's the case14:11
johnxdo 2 sd cards double the draw of 1 sd card?14:12
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Tama^2apparently yes14:12
johnxthat's unfortunate14:12
johnxthat's probably been biting me for a while as well14:12
Zicoh, last question (bis), about the update of mapper : it's uninstallable with a strange error of depends, but it's an application supported officially by Nokia, and I have official repos … idea ?14:12
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Zicupdate are available but never installed since my flash to install OS200814:13
johnxno idea :/ I haven't used it at all or bothered updating it.14:14
Tama^2zic, uninstall it14:14
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Tama^2and then install it again14:14
Tama^2that fixes it14:14
ZicTama^2: hmm, I will uninstall it and … that's all, in fact, N800 has no GPS integrated, I don't know why I've mapper alway installed :}14:15
Zicthanks :}14:16
GeneralAntilles"Map" not "mapper"14:19
Zicyes, confusion, sorry14:19
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b0unc3good morning14:21
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MangoFusiongot sdhc cards in mine, no notable extra battery drain noted so far14:24
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Tama^2MangoFusion: which size? and how many?14:28
MangoFusioncurrently got 2x4gb class 414:28
Tama^2can you tell me the brand?14:28
MangoFusionbefore i had 1x1gb (microsd) and 1x512mb (sd)14:29
MangoFusionand that ran all day in idle mode14:29
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Tama^2you mean only one day? from charge to discharge?14:30
MangoFusioncan't really gauge the sdhc fully yet, only had it in for a few days14:30
MangoFusionwell it probably lasted a bit longer, i didn't do any strict testing14:31
MangoFusiondepends what is turned on, etc14:31
Tama^2with 2x sdcards it lasts 25 hours in idle mode (for me)14:32
Tama^2same condition without sdcards > 5 days14:32
MangoFusioni'll have to time it next time14:32
Tama^2way more14:32
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MangoFusionpersonally i don't mind as long as its > 1 day14:33
MangoFusiondo you have wifi on too?14:33
Tama^2no, no applets, no apps, no metalayer crawler, offline more and sdcards umounted14:34
Tama^2still lasts only 25 hours14:35
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trickiejohnx: bme? kernel module?14:37
johnxbme isn't a kernel module14:38
MangoFusionin any case, i'll have a check myself once my device has charged up14:38
Tama^2please le me know if you have time and are willing to run some tests14:39
trickiejohnx: a ha 'Battery Management Entity'14:39
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johnxbme is a daemon-type closed-source program that seems to have some critical connection to battery charging and monitoring14:39
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trickiejohnx: and without an initfs i wouldn't have it14:40
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johnxpretty sure it and dsme run from the initfs14:41
johnxtrickie, looking at your options for running a different Linux distro? :)14:41
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trickiewell i been playing with mamona14:41
trickiewhat i really want is to be able to run a recent linux-omap kernel14:41
trickieget kprobes/systemtap working nice14:42
johnxlooks interesting, though for out of my depth :)14:43
trickieyeah bit out of mine also... but trying :)14:43
johnxit's the only way to learn :)14:43
trickiei have a kernel with a hacked up version of kprobes now... but systemtap needs a newer gcc than we have in sratchbox14:43
* lcuk has been out of his depth since he got 81014:44
trickieso thats the main reason i been looking into mamona14:44
johnxtrickie, *shamess plug* you could also look at the debian tarball I put together, but it won't get you a new kernel14:44
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trickieyou base that on the debian ARM port?14:45
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johnxyup, it's just a hacked up debian sid armel debootstrap14:45
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trickiecool, got a link anywhere?14:47
johnxI should actually update that...I think I chaged something recently...14:48
johnxnope, I already updated it :)14:48
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trickienice, ill check it out14:49
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trickieso i guess i could *try* to run a newer custom kernel... but id have to have enough battery left to reflash the old kernel back so i could charge my battery?14:53
trickiekinda dangerous14:53
johnxhave you tried kexec?14:53
johnxalso, I'm really not sure about the charging situation14:54
trickienah i haven't tried kexec yet14:54
trickienext on the list14:54
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johnxI should say *as I understand things* bme is important to battery charging14:55
johnxthere was some discussion about bme on the maemo developers list a while ago, that was written by people with more of a clue than myself :)14:55
trickieok, ill have a dig around... im sure others have tried a stock linux-omap kernel14:56
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johnxsometimes I don't know14:56
Takpff, understanding things is overrated14:56
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trickiei guess id be without wireless also15:07
johnxpart of the wireless driver is closed and part open15:08
johnxI haven't looked at the source yet to see if the open part is actually an interface for the closed part15:09
LL00how i can get right click with n800?15:09
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johnxtap and hold15:09
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LL00cool thx15:10
lcukis there a software hack to disable (and re-enable) the keyboard backlight on the 810?15:11
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JaffaMy N810's internal card has got corrupted. Trying to use it as an SD card reader over USB *always* gives in use.15:27
fysacould be a lie.  did you try removing the battery and rebooting?15:28
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MangoFusionanyone here boot from internal mmc? i'm wondering if it would be a good idea to enable the swap as well...15:29
Jaffafysa: tried rebooting, lsof says nothing using it.15:31
* Jaffa 'll remove the battery as well15:31
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JaffaThat seemed to do it. Also ensured USB cable was attached on boot ;-)15:33
fysanice.  the 'reboot' doesn't seem to always do that.15:35
trickieMangoFusion: i assume if you have partioned your mmc to have a vfat partition you could use that partition to hold a swap file15:36
trickieand still keep your ext2/3 partition to boot from15:37
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MangoFusionyes that is the case15:38
trickieshould work ok i think15:38
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melmothanybody using pyhton and glade ?15:39
melmothi was able to reparent a main window as a hildon one, but i cannot get_widget() a second window.15:40
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MangoFusionjust wondering how much of a performance (or life span) hit i'd get though with both the os and the swap being on the same card15:40
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trickieMangoFusion: well you will definately lessen the lifespan15:42
MangoFusionthat much i have figured already15:42
johnxit's pretty hard to give you numbers15:43
Takmelmoth: another window that exists in the .glade ‽15:43
MangoFusioni'm perfectly happy having no swap of course, just wondering about my options here ;)15:43
johnxthe case where you're trying to load a program from sd and it causes swapping will not be fun15:43
melmothTak yep, it exist in glade.15:43
melmothbut get_widget return None15:44
Takthen something's wrong - you checked that you didn't typo the name, etc?15:44
melmothyep .15:45
melmothi was wondering if this may be due to the fact that i had to reparent the main window.15:45
melmothbut the problem is even before i destroy the main window15:45
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trickiecan you boot from the external card on a n800?15:47
johnxI guess it depends on what you mean by "boot"15:52
melmothTak: the python is
melmoththe glade is
johnxyou get control after initfs has already run and dsme and bme are started15:53
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johnxif you use fanoush's modified initfs booting from ext sd is easy15:53
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johnxbooting from (for example)  nfs over wifi or usb-net is harder but possible15:54
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trickieok, ta15:54
Takmelmoth: can you access changeDestWindow even if you don't reparent the main window? (e.g. in a tiny sample)15:55
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melmothTak: nope, if i comment out the reparent (and the self.glade_xml.get_widget("mainWindow").destroy() ) , i still got the same behaviour15:59
melmoththis is strange, i m sure i had this working on regular glade stuff once.15:59
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TakI suspect libglade only supports one main window16:01
melmothgrumble. I do not know how to create a child window within the glade gui16:02
Takdialog box?16:03
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melmothi m trying that, but it also appears at the same level in the xml tree than the mainwindow itself16:04
melmothindeed, got the same behaviour.16:05
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melmothProblem must be somewhere else, or nobody could have ported glade application that use several windows.16:05
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Takdo you know of another pyglade maemo app that uses multiple windows?16:08
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trulsTak: just make more main windows in glade16:09
trulsshouldn't be a problem16:09
melmothyet, it doesnt work (tm) :-)16:09
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melmothi do not know of other such application on top of my head though16:10
trulsok, sorry, i haven't followed the entire discussion16:10
Takmmm, I love shouldn't16:10
* truls loves chocolate16:10
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melmothtruls: truls
melmothself.glade_xml.get_widget("changeDestWindow") returns None16:11
melmothand changeDestWindow exists in
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Solariontruls: now why did you have to go and mention chocolate?16:12
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* Solarion cleans up the drool16:13
trulsmelmoth: change this and get another one for the other window16:13
trulsnot sure if it'll work, but worht a shot16:14
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|tbb|heya tak, have u get my msg16:14
Khertan_Workmultiple windows in the same glade file work ...16:14
Tak|tbb|: yeah, I just thought it was last night ;-)16:14
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melmothtruls: ohh, good point16:15
|tbb|johnx, do u listen to music using a2dp through mplayer on your tablet?16:15
melmothVictorrry !16:16
melmothtruls: thank you so very much :)16:16
trulschocolate saves the day once more16:17
* Solarion gets the napkin again16:17
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TobotrasWhere to start if I want to talk with bluetooth device?16:21
MangoFusion perhaps?16:22
johnx|tbb|, not that often, honestly16:22
MangoFusion(assuming you are using python, hehe)16:23
ZicX-Chat is available for OS2007, what happen with OS2008 ? For the moment, I'm blocked with Pidgin for IRC :s16:23
ZicI take a look in maemo-hacker repository16:24
MangoFusioncould recompile it in scratchbox, no?16:24
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Zicit seems X-Chat is only available on OS200716:24
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fysait's available.16:24
ZicMangoFusion: Yes, I can, but if package are available, why ? ;)16:24
MangoFusionhaha yes16:24
johnxZic, google for xchat chinook16:25
fysaI use it all the time..16:25
TobotrasZic: I use xchat f/200816:25
johnxchinook = OS200816:25
fysaright now, in fact, this very session is being shared with xchat on my N800.16:25
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Takanyone have the source for the xchat chinook package?16:25
Zicyes, I know, but the olny thing I've found is a beta .deb
ZicDo you use it ?16:26
fysait works fine.16:26
Zics/it/this/ ?16:26
Zicok, thanks for info ;)16:26
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fysathat it's been "beta" and our only option this long is a testament ;)16:26
Zicit's fine ^^16:27
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_collin1will there be a Maemo CeBIT thingy?16:29
|tbb|could it be possible that the mplayer port for n8x00 doesnt support keyshortcuts like 0-9 for volume control or do i have to start mplayer with extra parameter16:29
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|tbb|s/n8x00/n8x0 (before speculation beginns)/16:30
infobot|tbb| meant: could it be possible that the mplayer port for n8x0 (before speculation beginns) doesnt support keyshortcuts like 0-9 for volume control or do i have to start mplayer with extra parameter16:30
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Zicwhat is the difference between to say : « OS200* » and « ITOS200* » ? I use the first one all the time, but it seems IT one is more used, there is a difference ?16:31
fysayou should be able to define shortcuts in ~/.mplayer/config16:31
fysait supports some, at least, because that's what the hardware keys are.16:31
fysayou can bring up the menu to adjust the volume..16:32
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fysabut my problem is that I sometimes want volume at 200-250 ('surround sound' movie) to hear the dialogue properly.16:32
fysaand the OSD only lets you adjust up to 100..16:32
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fysaso my solution was to modify ~/mplayer/.config and set vol:200 there16:33
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fysaand then the OSD lets you adjust volume *down* in steps .. 195, 190, etc.  but as soon as you try to push it back up, it gets reset to 100.16:34
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fysawhat do you need extra shortcuts for?16:34
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|tbb|skipping songs16:39
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|tbb|could you cat me your mplayer config file into privmsg16:41
fysalet's see if my device is awake ;)16:41
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TobotrasMangoFusion: thanks16:43
fysapastebin is down, put it there instead.16:44
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LL00do you guys know scribd ?16:44
fysathese settings play 2-CD XVID/DIVX DVD rips at the standard 1Mbps with little issue.16:45
fysaI rip a DVD just as if I were ripping to play on a regular SD TV.16:45
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* lcuk2 stretches out16:50
lcuk2the keys on this apple wireless keyboard feel massive16:50
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fysathe new one?16:50
MangoFusionis that the new one?16:51
lcuk2the laptop styled thin one16:51
fysaI know, isn't it lovely?16:51
MangoFusioni contemplated getting that, but it seemed a bit too big16:51
|tbb|hmmh fysa: it hadnt change anything on my volume16:51
lcuk2each key though is big and its really easy and comfortable to type on16:51
MangoFusion(for tablet use)16:51
fysatyping with mine as we speak..16:51
lcuk2fysa, are you in the uk by any chance16:51
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fysathinking of getting this.16:52
fysasorry, in the US16:52
* Tobotras have found maemo connectivity guide, that should be it16:53
lcuk2i got this so i could type in bed - ive got 810 so on the road i am sorted16:53
MangoFusionah neat16:53
fysaI gave away the IBM M-clicky that I've been using for 10 years, because this Apple wireless keyboard is finally 'good enough'16:53
fysa.. just a matter of training myself to not need a 10-key. :)16:53
lcuk2ahhh damn, i think apple only have one leyboard layout, cos my quote key is in the wrong place16:53
MangoFusionapple keyboards can have pretty odd key layouts16:54
fysathe only problem I have with this keyboard so far is the CAPS LOCK delay.16:54
fysaI map CAPS LOCK to CTRL..16:54
lcuk2ive never wanted a wireless board after bad experiences with the first gen type boards (and mice as well)16:54
fysaand the delay kind of screws with editting and copying/pasting from time to time.16:54
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lcuk2what do you mean DELAY  it just works?16:55
fysaI think it's worth adjusting to this small keyboard though to not have to suffer withdrawls while away from the desk..16:55
fysatap the CAPS LOCK quickly once16:55
fysait won't turn on.16:55
fysathere's a .25 second delay or something.16:55
lcuk2oh crap  its not quick is itsdfsdfsdfSDSDFSDF16:55
fysathat you have to hold it down for..16:56
fysaas a 'protection' scheme from accidentally tripping it.16:56
lcuk2it doesnt have the delay always its inconsistent which is worse16:56
fysait's hardwired into the electronics of the keyboard itself..16:56
fysathere is some other key with a similar delay, maybe eject.16:57
lcuk2oh poo16:57
fysanot for me in Windows anyway..16:57
lcuk2oooooooor is that just a random dot16:57
lcuk2:O wtf16:57
fysacan't remember in OS X.16:57
fysathat could be triggered by the OS.16:57
lcuk2lol helps if i look at my 810 screen instead of my desktop session16:57
* lcuk closes this one16:58
fysasort of like how the old crappy Logitech keyboards had the CAPS LOCK/NUM LOCK light on the receiver instead of the keyboard..16:58
fysabecause they could never be sure what state the keyboard was actually in at the keyboard itself, due to packet loss.16:58
lcuk2save on battery power - undeeeeeerstandable really16:58
lcuk2ok, wtf is this phantom long keystroke16:58
lcuk2i wonder if it only occurs when something else is happening16:59
fysatry turning off prediction?16:59
lcuk2cos my typing hasnt suddenly got that bad16:59
lcuk2undeeeeeerstandabbbbbbbble is predicted?16:59
fysamaybe it's looking up prediction and interrupting something.17:00
fysatrying to think of other activity that would be going on while typing. ;)17:00
NaviYou probably inputted it some time ago and it remembered it.17:00
fysathere wouldn't be prediction here..17:00
lcuk2maybe when the device is scrolling something on screen it locks up because im not holding keys for that long17:00
MangoFusionmaybe they are bringing out a new model and thus the keyboard is programmed to go apeshit beforehand17:00
fysaI believe it's related to the lagged input.17:00
lcuk2its never tried to second guess me before so i dont think its prediction17:01
fysait feels like the bluetooth receiver is flipping on/off as some sort of power saving measure..17:01
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lcuk2yes and when the computer changes gear it gets a stutter17:01
fysalike polling more slowly than it should be17:01
lcuk2how far away should bluetooth work, i quite like the idea of continuing to code whilst im afs17:02
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MangoFusionblind coding?17:02
lcuk2on another topic, has there been any nokia news regarding flash 51.3 ?17:03
lcuk2yer mango, ilook at the screen so infrequently anyway and know when i have made a mistake17:03
johnxI think the general conclusion is that it's just to fix the power on/off "enigma"17:03
* lcuk2 has an internal text buffer17:03
fysaI've plugged my device into a wall in a corner of the room with a 24pt font 30 feet away, and taken notes on it from the conference table..17:03
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MangoFusioninteresting idea17:04
lcuk2some people wonder why you just didnt take it with you ;)17:04
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fysabattery was dying after taking notes all day..17:04
fysaand no plug near me..17:05
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* johnx sits where the outlets are :)17:05
* mwaldron has a 2xAA Energi-To-Go 17:06
sadamthere's a problem with because the inclusion of the gnome-2.22 from cvs no longer works17:06
fysait was very slick, apart from the setting it in the corner ;)17:06
MangoFusionpity you can't hook up a hamster on a wheel to it17:06
NaviForget hamsters17:06
Navihook up a potato to it17:06
fysasending the agenda/notes file to everyone via bluetooth at the end of the day was cake17:06
MangoFusionhaha great idea17:06
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johnxreminds me of the crank charger for the OLPC and then the one for the DS...17:06
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mwaldroni need to test my solar charger on the 810. see if i can anty up the current17:07
lcuk2foot pedal charger would seem more practical - like the old singer sewing machines my gran had17:07
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lcuk2or a cycling machine charger17:07
lcuk2you have to continue cycling over 15mph to play games17:08
MangoFusionget fit and power your device at the same time!17:08
Takkeyboard charger for the n81017:08
MangoFusioneverybody wins!17:08
NaviMangoFusion, good idea!17:08
NaviTHAT is now you get kids in the US to get into shape17:08
lcuk2its a great idea to be honest and would help to save the planet in multiple ways17:08
NaviForce kids to exercise to power their games.17:09
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johnxheh...force them to exercise to power *my* games17:09
lcuk2tho some kids will try it with their actual bikes and be playing ps3 whilst riding down the street with a monitor strapped to handlebars17:09
Navijohnx, illegal!17:09
* Navi whips johnx17:09
johnxcurses, foiled again!17:10
johnxif it wasn't for you meddling kids and that dog!17:10
lcuk2the only real winners in a scooby doo episode are the fancy dress shops17:10
MangoFusionyou'd need a beowulf cluster of kids on bikes to power a ps317:11
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lcuk2but at least they wouldnt be fat17:11
johnxdon't they come with an internal fusion reactor?17:11
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johnxwell, then we need to fix their *diet*...but otherwise...17:12
lcuk2we got ourselves a convoy - the lead bike gets to play whilst the others power it17:12
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johnxset it up like a flock of birds, maybe17:12
lcuk2i eat chocolate and chips and fry ups and stuff and im not fat - its not entirely diet17:12
lcuk2quantity matters17:12
johnxand diet *can't* be ignored like it's not part of the problem17:13
johnxjust like alternative energy17:13
johnxthere is no *one size fits all* answer17:13
lcuk2not at all, hey you could make some kind of electrolising drink which when they pee into a bottle will power devices17:13
lcuk2try taking that through customs17:14
johnxas long as it's less than 4oz ...17:14
fysalet's just replace the plastic and aluminum cases for our devices with super sponge material17:14
fysathen we can just drop them into the toilet for a recharge17:14
johnxI really do like the crank idea17:14
johnxyou can attach *anything* to it17:14
lcuk2sod that fysa, just give computers an open top and keep then in the bathroom itself17:14
johnxsome type of twisting force goes in one end and 5v comes out the other...17:15
fysaI believe someone makes a crank charger for AAs17:15
johnxthey make one for the DS17:15
lcuk2the crank charger is great, but impractical when you need your hands - the first gen olpc had ideas for numerous charging methods and the foot pedal was one of them17:15
johnxjust need a plug adapter17:15
fysayou could use that with AAs and the external battery packs..17:15
lcuk2i saw some thing about a chargerrrrrr which attaches to leg and uses the movement of your knee17:16
* lcuk2 deletes the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrs17:16
fysathere we go17:17
johnxor this:
fysamy N800 adapter is 5v17:18
johnxnow you're getting it :)17:18
lcuk2get 2 then17:18
fysaI can imagine that it would handle 6v fine..17:18
lcuk2you know, i dont know why i come here, you lot are just a bunch of cranks17:18
fysawoohoo! it gathered enough power to boot my ipod!17:19
fysa(this happened after appr. 30 minutes of cranking and several attempts of my ipod to boot in between but not succeeding in that)17:19
johnxjust wow17:19
lcuk2modern man would use that energy to walk to the shop17:19
fysa...then it seemed it found it’s way, cause I could stop cranking and it kept charging (there are batteries in the flashlight, so those are discharging)... it kept charging for appr. 5 minutes and then this animated charge-icon became static17:19
johnxmaybe better off attaching it to a bicycle wheel17:19
fysathe iPod wall charger is 12v17:20
lcuk2one of my friends ran household electric from a massive weight hanging from the stairs - every couple of days he would wind it back up and let it unwind charging a couple of car batteries17:20
fysathat is great.17:21
lcuk2it worked really well - obviously not upto powering the boiler or electric cooker, but enough for the low uses17:21
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lcuk2right, i think i need to do some testing with sdl/gtk.   ive found a nice IDE for windows which does what i want and can build projects nicely.  i just need to build a script to copy it over after saving17:24
johnx'night all17:24
* johnx sleeps17:24
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lcuk2then run make and then finally copy and execute on the 81017:24
lcuk2nite johnx17:24
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* lcuk2 would prefer to skip the vmware @make@ stage17:25
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lcuk2ive heard that gcc and the autotools and the sdk can be put directly onto the 8x0, anyone have any instructions or guides knocking around?17:26
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* lcuk2 wont try to recompile the kernel but it should be quick enough for small projects17:27
fysashould just be a matter of having the correct sources.17:28
fysathere is a scratchbox repo that mounts loopback or some such17:28
fysaif you were to get that working with the on-device sources.list/apt, I believe that would take you a long way.17:28
lcuk2but i dont want scratchbox because i am compiling natively ?17:29
fysadeb file:/home/jfisher/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_4.0 chinook explicit17:29
lcuk2i thought scratch was just a wrapper arltiple targets17:29
fysacorrect, you don't want scratchbox, but you want gcc and such17:29
fysaI think that SDK repo file has those?17:29
lcuk2yer i do.  thanks ill look now.   oh hang on, you linked to a local file...17:30
fysawhen you install scratchbox, it creates a local repo17:30
fysaI'm thinking that's where some of the dependencies for building are going to be..17:30
fysabut I could be wrong. :)17:30
lcuk2so i have to install scratchbox on my 810?17:30
fysano, I would install scratchbox somewhere else -- or look in your vmware /etc/apt/sources.list17:31
fysait should have the same file://17:31
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fysacopy that to your 810, add to your sources, then apt-get update17:31
lcuk2diff user name, but yer i think ill find it - either that or ill just try and grab the stuff from nokia.17:31
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lcuk2i hope this works because then for the majority of things i can bypass vmware17:32
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lcuk2code and dev wherever and run as required on device17:32
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kaltsihey guys I can't really follow your conversation, but please check your ideas again before installing stuff like that to the n81017:34
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Khertan_Workkaltsi > i ve try it in the past on n800 on os2007 ... but compiling was a pain as memory (with swap) wasn't enought for large projects17:36
fysalooking through the repo now..17:36
jumpulayou could attach a usb mass storage and use that as swap :)17:37
fysalots of osso* stuff there, but only a dozen or so -dev packages.17:37
kaltsiKhertan_Work: I can imagine :)17:37
fysathe new 32GB SDHCs are supposed to be 22-25MB/sec, that would be a nice improvement.17:37
fysafor N800 owners ;)17:37
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Khertan_Workjumpula > yes but you need to set the swap by hand as interface allow you only to set 128 Mo and less.17:44
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fysaUSB -> IDE -> SDRAM/DDR adapter. ;)17:46
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melmothAre treeview searcheable in maemo ?18:28
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suitchmy /home/user/.browser file is a long string of whatever (namely: ^@^@^@^@^ etc.)18:35
suitchis there anything that can be done with that?18:36
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nomissuitch: I suspect that in reality these are zero-bytes.18:42
nomissuitch: it is your file-viewer that shows them as "^@"18:42
suitchvi and nano18:42
nomisyeah. Zero-Bytes.18:42
suitchit's supposed to be a configuration file18:42
suitchand i'd like to edit it18:42
nomissuitch: seems something bad happened to it.18:43
suitchthen why doesn't it have the usual things in it?18:43
suitchas regular text?18:44
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suitchand how do you edit something like that?18:44
Takis this os2006 or 2007?18:44
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Tak2006 had a bug in the wifi driver that occasionally wrote zero-bytes to random places on the flash18:47
suitchi have the bugfix since right after reflashing18:48
suitchnot to mention I haven't used wifi yet on this rootfs18:48
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suitchalso anything i write at the end of this file disappears after running the browser18:51
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tripolohello, any speak spanish help me?20:06
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NaviHow's the N8X0 situation on calculators?20:17
MangoFusion there20:19
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Takhmm, nobody helped tripolo...20:20
NaviI don't speak spanish20:20
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Veggenhmmf. I think the N810 uses the wireless interface for sip connections no matter if there's a more direct way to the sip server.20:21
Veggen(and yes, there is: the openvpn tunnel)20:21
Veggen..and for the upnp browsing too. nuts.20:23
NaviI recall there being a script to hildonize glade apps20:25
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wwpNavi: really? any pointer?20:33
NaviActually, there was, but I couldn't find it. My question was going to be if anyone knew where to find it20:34
Navibut I decided to do it myself20:34
TakI've always done it manually20:34
wwpI have two gtk+ apps to hildonize, are there good references about that job?20:35
wwp(or google will tell me I presume)20:36
Takreferences about what aspect of hildonizing?20:36
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Navithe maemo wiki has references20:36
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Tak"dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/"20:38
wwpTak: technical stuff, examples, docs, pointers, even theoretical things20:38
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melmothWhat would be the most appropriate gtk widget to display a counter ? (label, textinput ?)20:39
Tak"$ dpkg -S /usr/lib/
Takvalagame: /usr/lib/"20:39
* Tak scratch head20:39
wwpI'll ask maemo ;)20:39
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Takmelmoth: changeable?20:39
uliseshello all20:39
melmothnot changeable by the uer20:40
melmothit ll be a time counter20:40
TakI'd say a label20:40
melmothok. thanks.20:40
Takwwp: probably the maemo tutorial20:40
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NaviGlade support would be nice :/20:42
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Takyeah, it would save having to hackishly manually hildonize everything20:43
NaviSucks that glade is so common nowadays20:44
Navialong with pygtk20:44
Takglade is fantastic20:44
NaviI have VB flashbacks.20:44
Veggengot openvpn to work, but seems that the things I wanted to use it for doesn't want to use the tunnel.20:45
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TakI don't see any reason to write 2000 lines of code just to layout a GUI20:46
Taknow python, otoh, I'll agree with you about ;-)20:46
Naviui.c:25:35: hildon/hildon-program.h: No such file or directory <- weak20:47
ulisesapple2: hey20:48
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NaviWhat package is that package in, and is that the right location?20:49
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Navis/package in/header in/20:49
infobotNavi meant: What package is that header in, and is that the right location?20:49
kiSo let's get a party going (let's get a party going)20:49
kiNow it's time to party and we'll party hard (party hard)20:50
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* Tak sighs20:54
TakNavi: pkg-config --cflags hildon-120:55
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kiSo let's get a party going (let's get a party going)21:06
kiNow it's time to party and we'll party hard (party hard)21:06
kisoulja boy tell em21:07
kiayy i got this new dance fo yall called tha Soulja Boy21:07
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Takwe can haz ops?21:12
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NaviI wish...21:12
kiyeah ops plz21:13
kii'll post more soulja boy21:13
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kiis that a no?21:21
kiwhast maemo btw?21:21
Navimaemo is a porn site dedicated to open porn.21:22
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kiu guys liek scat?21:22
wwphm strange. I have a gtk_tree_view (editable) that is not editable when running in maemo21:23
wwpI can set/get text programmatically, set focus and select text, but no way to edit21:23
jku__treeview is "different" in several ways, IIRC21:24
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Veggenwhy oh why does the rtcomm/voip stuff use the wireless interface ip address (or the connection ip address, I guess) when sending on the network? the network stack should be able to handle it quite nicely in itself.21:27
VeggenCan't see any other explanation for what I see, than that's what it does.21:27
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elbI'm glad to see I'm not the only one who uses bc/dc21:33
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lcddhow much memory should maemo-mapper need? i'm having hard time using it because its virtual size exceeds 100MB after some panning and zooming21:34
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nelsonIs there a full-screen clock / timer?21:45
nelsonI'd kinda think that the clock ought to have that built-in, but apparently not.21:46
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ulisesjohnx: hey22:00
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konttoriHey! Anyone interested in a kick ass theme?22:51
* konttori needs some sanity testing before launching the theme22:51
konttoriAlso, theme maker is now fully working and would appreciate any testers for that as well.22:52
konttoriBut please, if anyone is interested in a nice theme, that nuvopearl is actually much nicer than its previour incarnations!22:52
pupnik_will do22:53
GeneralAntillesTruth be told, OS2008 is the only ITOS release where I've been happy with the bundled themes.22:53
felipeckonttori: screenshots?22:54
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konttoriA sec.22:56
konttoriwell, a few secs. Will have to install the load applet22:57
lcuk_2pupnik_, or anyone working on graphics, do you know if its possible to change from sending 800*480 data into lower 400*240 in the next frame?  - i have an idea i'm thinking about22:58
GeneralAntillesLooks pretty good, couple things seems to be off by a pixel or two here and there.22:58
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pupnik_lcuk_2: i don't understand the question.  Do you refer to Xsp pixel doubling?22:59
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lcuk_2yes, if i had memory space for a 840*480 surface and was using that, then at a specified trigger i half the resolution and continue rendering at that using pixel doubling would it be a smooth transition - 1 frame hires, next frame low res.  or would it be a judder screen change23:01
konttoriAhh... screenshots now taken.23:01
konttorihmm... blog or garage??? Garage for now.23:03
konttoriThere you go!23:05
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konttoriGeneralAntilles:  I have to agree with you in there. The default themes (well, one of them) were pretty good.23:05
Veggenwee. made it. phone calls with sip over an openvpn tunnel to my home network where my connected asterisk is...23:05
elbI use whatever the simplest theme is23:06
elbI'd like an even simpler theme23:06
konttoriBut, with theme maker, it is now relatively easy to make whatever makes you tick.23:06
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konttorilemme see...23:07
GeneralAntillesSomebody should put together a monochrome theme.23:07
* konttori cannot remember all the themes. Oh that one. I liked the default theme more.23:07
MangoFusionmy thoughts exactly23:07
GeneralAntillesEcho > Felicia.23:07
MangoFusionwho needs color anyway?23:07
* elb looks for Echo23:07
elboh, the default theme?23:08
GeneralAntillesFelicia's got those weird rounded buttons.23:08
elbit was too ... swoopy for me23:08
GeneralAntillesGlasser would be OK if it weren't for the orange.23:08
elbmany Applications really aren't happy with the black backgrounds, though23:08
konttoriHey... Damn. this is going to the wrong direction ;) Someone, please, have a few min test go with the nuvopearl there!23:08
konttoridammit! ;)23:09
elbhmmm switching to Echo didn't work, that's interesting23:09
GeneralAntillesGive it a second?23:09
elbI did?23:09
elb1 minute or more?23:09
lcuk_2switch around them - do others change?23:10
elbbut the desktop and everything on it is just completely black?23:10
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lcuk_2or is it just echo23:10
elbmaybe this is normal, the apps seem to be OK23:10
elbthe "title bar" on the desktop is just ... blank23:10
elbI like the icon selection on the left better in Echo than Felicia23:11
GeneralAntilleskonttori, edge on the statusbar at desktop needs smoother blending, border on the application menu needs to be nudged a pixel to the left, there's an artifact on the bottom right of the browser icon, the gutter around the minimize/close buttons and the bottom right of the application toolbar clashes with the gutter on scrollbar.23:12
GeneralAntillesI think that's about it. :D23:12
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GeneralAntilleselb, should look like the shots here:
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GeneralAntillesAlso, konttori, I'd argue for inverting the gradient on the taskbar.23:14
konttoriGA: yeah. I'm quite aware of you you are saying. thanks!23:14
elbGeneralAntilles: yeah, that's it ... I guess last time I saw Echo, I just didn't have a completely black background23:15
konttoriGA: I wanted to make at least one theme that doesn't have black shaded taskbar23:15
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konttoriJust for demonstration purposes on how they work23:15
konttoriand for testing the theme maker23:15
konttorianyway, I'll make a completely inverse theme as well that I'll try to test out the 'full black' mode.23:15
GeneralAntillesA transparency-less theme might be worthwhile, too.23:16
konttori(as in white text on black for everything)23:16
konttoriGA: yeah, OTOH, that would not be interesting for demonstration purposes23:16
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konttoriBut, I might make one of those as well. Now, I'd just like to get some of those people interested in making themes to take the TM for a ride.23:17
booleanquestion: where does one get the windows ( yah, yah I know ) flasher? the site links dont work23:17
konttoriGA: did you find the fonts too small on that theme?23:17
GeneralAntillesHehe . . . my patience runs out putting together a statusbar applet icon. Might take a swing at that monochrome theme, though. . . .23:18
konttorimono theme is easy to make. Taka any ready theme template and turn down the knob ;)23:18
GeneralAntillesHopefully a little more hand-tweaked than that. :P23:18
konttoriYeah! (just kidding earlier)23:19
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Veggenheh. echo like hell: For test, I did a sip call from my n810 connected via my cell phone, over openvpn to my home asterisk and then out via my ip-telephony provider to PSTN and my fixed ISDN phone.23:21
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konttorithanks GA. Now I need to go to bed. Good night all!23:23
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maddlerVeggen: damn geek! ;)23:33
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Veggenmaddler: btw, I needed to do some gconf hacking to get the telepathy sip to send out on my openvpn connection instead of my wlan interface.23:34
Veggenor so I think. maybe it was the full reboot I did afterwards, that did it. hmf.23:34
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Veggen(gotta test that)23:36
icebattlehas anyone had any luck with gcj on maemo?23:36
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Veggenno, it's definitely the gconftool-hack. Was a setting that the connection manager wizard didn't expose.23:42
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Veggenbut the best part is that it's connection specific setting, so that you can set it differently for different accounts.23:45
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maddlerVeggen: sounds pretty nice... :)23:49
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Veggen(hmm. I think perhaps I need to start blogging again)23:54
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