| lcuk_3 | oooer, not sure, i know things eat more if they need to refresh after other windows close above | 00:00 |
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| __marker | http://lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/known.php although maybe not applicable on its | 00:05 |
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| florian | re | 00:10 |
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| __marker | arhh managed with my pls. links2 rocks | 00:13 |
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| * lcuk_3 curses at 13fps fullscreen | 00:25 | |
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| lcuk_3 | if i open an x window (actually xv) am i still ok to use the SDL_Pollevent function to grab mouse or should i not be touching sdl if i dont have an sdl window? | 00:29 |
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| pupnik | not sure lcuk_3 - how about open a sdl window and don't use sdl to draw | 00:37 |
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| lcuk_3 | im not against using x events but finding it tough seeking api/examples | 00:39 |
| lcuk_3 | ive got fullscreen 800*480 updates at 13fps using xv practically flicker free - it even does autoscaling if you pass it a smaller screen and its quicker. ill see if there is an rgb mode instead of the yuv its currently in | 00:40 |
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| pupnik | cool lcuk_3 - save backup | 00:43 |
| pupnik | s | 00:43 |
| lcuk_3 | always do :) | 00:43 |
| lcuk_3 | i just went and grabbed the example on wikipedia for the xv article and got it running and been playing | 00:44 |
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| pupnik | Ok well none of the generated profile data helped performance | 01:09 |
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| pupnik | at least not that I could see. the occasional dropouts seemed to be fixable with a slightly larger buffer on the esd driver side. Then there's the issue of the burbly sound, which turns out to be a side effect, i think, of the oversampling and the filtering they do. The sound generator generates sound at 16x the sampling frequency, then passes that through a filter, and I am pretty confident that this filter creates audio artefacts at the boundary of | 01:11 |
| pupnik | these are inaudible at higher frequencies like ~ 22050khz | 01:12 |
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| pupnik | increasing sample rate to 12000 hz dramatically reduces the burbling effect, but so far i don't have a build that consumes less than 90% cpu at that setting | 01:13 |
| pupnik | starting from scratch again with only changes to esd.c | 01:14 |
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| lcuk_3 | pupnik, i noticed occasional random freezing with whatever i am doing, it will run smoothly, then just grind to a halt and judder then pick back up again | 01:20 |
| pupnik | you're blitting graphics via xv? | 01:20 |
| lcuk_3 | yes, but i noticed it when i was directly playing with the fb . i put it down to background processing | 01:21 |
| lcuk_3 | other apps stealing the limelight, or it was the cpu scaling back | 01:21 |
| pupnik | you can lock the cpu to high perf mode | 01:22 |
| lcuk_3 | osso command? | 01:22 |
| lcuk_3 | or a compiler option? | 01:22 |
| pupnik | cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors | 01:23 |
| pupnik | echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor | 01:23 |
| lcuk_3 | doesnt that mean it will drain faster whether or not my program is running, or do you mean write it at start and cleanup at end? | 01:23 |
| pupnik | just for testing and making sure there's no scale back | 01:23 |
| pupnik | but i've never seen a difference yet in performance for games and such that use much cpu | 01:24 |
| lcuk_3 | so by default its set to ondemand | 01:24 |
| lcuk_3 | have you played the other way and tried in on conservative? | 01:25 |
| pupnik | no | 01:25 |
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| lcuk_3 | i might just do that - i ran my old pda on lowest setting since the day i got it and enjoyed better battery life | 01:26 |
| lcuk_3 | anyway, thanks ill try it on the performance setting and see | 01:26 |
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| lcuk_3 | hmm doesnt change | 01:27 |
| lcuk_3 | ahh my mistake | 01:28 |
| lcuk_3 | did now | 01:28 |
| lcuk_3 | full screen blitting with screen on lowest brightness makes the backlight flicker/hum - the graphics are scrolling crisply but the light is dimming | 01:30 |
| lcuk_3 | must be the power drain ;) | 01:30 |
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| pupnik | this is all 16bpp source to 16bpp RGB565? | 01:32 |
| lcuk_3 | its not rgb, its yuv | 01:33 |
| pupnik | cool | 01:34 |
| lcuk_3 | and governor made no noticable difference in quick test, none of them juddered this time though. both 14.6 fps | 01:34 |
| lcuk_3 | lemme drop size down to 400*240 and see what it gives (its automatically scaled up) | 01:35 |
| lcuk_3 | 55fps | 01:35 |
| lcuk_3 | it looked a bit more jerky but thats because it was zooming faster | 01:35 |
| lcuk_3 | theres no real work going on im just writing bytes to a full surface for each time - its similar in concept to your pupvox | 01:36 |
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| pupnik | We should compare that to a 16-16bit sdl updaterect blit at 400x240. | 01:49 |
| pupnik | (without xsp) | 01:50 |
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| lcuk_3 | absolutely, i think though i am finally starting to understand the yuv formats | 01:53 |
| * jott wonders how much performance we would gain if we used xv/dga/framebuffer/... in the SDL core | 01:53 | |
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| pupnik | Also no reason not to make a maemo wiki out of it, for collaborative documentation | 01:54 |
| pupnik | I have several snippets of tests by ssvb lying around | 01:54 |
| lcuk_3 | at least for grayscale we could get quite massive gains - it would only have to update an 8bit image (even though it sends over extra data (half res squares to give color) | 01:55 |
| pupnik | The discipline imposed by public documentation can help greatly in sorting-out the facts, edge cases and exceptions | 01:55 |
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| pupnik | newvox right now gets ~15fps at 800x480 and ~65 fps at 400x240 | 01:56 |
| lcuk_3 | nice :) | 01:56 |
| pupnik | lemme confirm hat | 01:56 |
| jott | pupnik: that is usual SDL X11 blitting (+ Xsp)? | 01:57 |
| lcuk_3 | im sure somewhere locked away inside the lcd driver there is a lower res planar format | 01:57 |
| pupnik | no, 21.74 fps right now at 800x480 | 01:57 |
| pupnik | unless my sdl framecounter is lying | 01:57 |
| jott | hehe yeah easiest way to increase performance framecount+=2 ;p | 01:57 |
| lcuk_3 | or skip an update if you are running behind planned speed ;) | 01:58 |
| pupnik | yes it is an 8-bit sdl palletted surface, supposedly X11 is transforming that to RGB565. the 400x240 version is with xsp | 01:58 |
| lcuk_3 | misses on blower, gotta dash | 01:58 |
| pupnik | ok cheers | 01:58 |
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| ssvb | lcuk_3: and I wish this performance problem could be just in software, something stupid like sending data to LCD controller twice from the omapfb driver :) | 02:04 |
| ssvb | lcuk_3: jokes aside, but this theory also needs to be considered | 02:05 |
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| Navi | Heh | 02:09 |
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| pupnik | wow haven't seen a goto in a while | 02:17 |
| Navi | :3 | 02:18 |
| jott | ssvb: a little question: the spec for the epson display you referred to was for the S1D13745, but isn't the S1D13744 in the N810? or do i confuse here something!? | 02:20 |
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| ssvb | jott: kernel has a file 'blizzard.c' in omapfb sources | 02:25 |
| lcuk_3 | i *think* at least from a cursorary glance that the 13744 has double the ram of the 13745 and not much different besides. | 02:25 |
| ssvb | it defines two strings | 02:25 |
| jott | yes.. | 02:25 |
| ssvb | #define BLIZZARD_VERSION_S1D137450x01/* Hailstorm */ | 02:25 |
| jott | one blizzard and a hailstorm | 02:25 |
| ssvb | #define BLIZZARD_VERSION_S1D137440x02/* Blizzard */ | 02:25 |
| ssvb | yes | 02:26 |
| ssvb | if you search in maemo developers mailing list archives, Daniel Stone mentioned that they are only using Hailstorm (S1D13745) | 02:27 |
| jott | ok.. just curious | 02:27 |
| ssvb | something like this post: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg07062.html | 02:27 |
| jott | thanks for the pointer.. | 02:29 |
| lcuk_3 | hailstorm has 1280kb memory, blizzard has 2560k a YUV12 buffer is 576000 bytes, a whole 16bit rgb buffer is 768000 bytes. that says to me that we cant do double buffered 16bit screens with the hailstorm, but yuv12 is possible | 02:29 |
| ssvb | did you get any other clues that made you believe it could be 744? | 02:30 |
| lcuk_3 | i dont think it is... | 02:31 |
| * lcuk_3 believes its the 745 | 02:31 | |
| lcuk_3 | and on that note im gonna vanish now | 02:31 |
| jott | well just that /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/ctrl/name says blizzard but as actually both are seemingly called "blizzard" (as the driver).. but i just wondered | 02:31 |
| jott | schematics also point to the 745 :P | 02:37 |
| jott | just was a bit confused ;) | 02:38 |
| ssvb | :) | 02:38 |
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| pupnik | wow ... my recent speedup hack to fceu sent it into Einstuerzende Neubauten mode | 02:46 |
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| Tama^2 | pupnik: which translated form german means? | 03:03 |
| Tama^2 | :P | 03:03 |
| pupnik | i created a feedback loop, like an emulator jimi hendrix | 03:06 |
| pupnik | woohoo fixed it | 03:06 |
| jott | i thought more about the release date of the original NES in correlation to the band :P | 03:07 |
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| pupnik | bwaaaa i found what's causing the fluppery sound in FCEU | 03:08 |
| pupnik | *air guitar | 03:08 |
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| fysa | http://www.wiili.org/index.php/GlovePIE:FCE_Ultra_%2B_Zapper_%2B_Tilt_mode | 03:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk_3, still suffering? | 03:26 |
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| braddbr | hi.. anyone coding on the nokia in xlib? can I pop up the onscreen keyboard directly thru X (without having to use gtk) ?? | 04:08 |
| pupnik | no, you need something like http://pupnik.de/xkbd.html | 04:10 |
| braddbr | i see.. is there no way to make a wrapper that will use hildons built-in keyboard? | 04:12 |
| pupnik | that's an interesting idea | 04:12 |
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| braddbr | because i could make my own keyboard, but i would like to try to keep the standard keyboard that people are used to in my app(s) | 04:13 |
| braddbr | (looking at your link now i want ultima V for my n800 :( ) | 04:14 |
| pupnik | new dosbox is out - it works ok | 04:15 |
| braddbr | good to know.. i will try it when i have more time | 04:15 |
| pupnik | ultima4 is freeware now also | 04:15 |
| braddbr | did not know that | 04:15 |
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| pupnik | if you can figure out how to make xkbd stay on-top of fullscreen SDL apps that would be pretty awesome. not sure it's possible without changes to SDL. i don't know enough X | 04:17 |
| pupnik | or if you could do the same with hildon keyboard and make it talk to all X apps, that'd be pretty huge (would need to add a manual way to raise the kbd though) | 04:19 |
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| braddbr | Well if hildon and X can run in the same app, i guess a wrapper can get keypress events from hildon_keyboard and just post them to the X event loop | 04:21 |
| pupnik | All of this is in a sense, unsupported by policy. ITOS apps are supposed to be gtk/hildon and that's that. | 04:23 |
| braddbr | i see.. well if it can be done, it would last til the next update anyhow | 04:24 |
| pupnik | fyi, a bluetooth keyboard will work with sdl and xlib apps as well | 04:24 |
| braddbr | good to know | 04:24 |
| lcuk_3 | isnt a gtk window compiled over x | 04:25 |
| braddbr | yeah, i think it is.. | 04:25 |
| braddbr | i think theres ways to access the internal X stuff in gtk, but i don't know enough about it | 04:25 |
| lcuk_3 | therefore there should be some level of cooperation | 04:25 |
| lcuk_3 | GeneralAntilles, its clearing now thanks | 04:26 |
| pupnik | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/33394 check this thread braddor | 04:26 |
| lcuk_3 | easiest way would be to try it - ive got an x test here, if you could pastebin some code for the builtin keyboard ill check it | 04:26 |
| braddbr | heh, i don't know much of hildon.. my goal right now is to port my xlib gui / etc to my tablet.. its working fine, except for the keyboard issues.. i will look into gtk more later tho to see if i can somehow bring up the hildon keyboard | 04:31 |
| pupnik | first poster to that thread claims he has a working solution, try contacting him | 04:31 |
| lcuk_3 | an laternative might be to actually step up and see if you like gtk | 04:31 |
| braddbr | yeah, eventually i might go to gtk, but for now i'm going to stick with xlib (don't ask me why, i do weird things) | 04:32 |
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| pupnik | FCEU SUCKS | 05:01 |
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| kaje | I just got a new nokia 810. How do I ssh out? It can't find the ssh command and I don't see how to install it | 05:07 |
| elb | kaje: you have to enable maemo extras in your application manager to be able to install openssh | 05:07 |
| elb | kaje: pull down the menu, go to tool | application catalog, then hit 'edit' for maemo Extras, and uncheck disable | 05:08 |
| kaje | ahhh! thanks! | 05:08 |
| kaje | also, when I do updates, it says there is a map update, but the download fails everytime... is this a known issue? | 05:09 |
| elb | it's known by me, at least ;-) | 05:09 |
| pupnik | elb are you sure it's in extras? | 05:09 |
| kaje | haha, have a fix? | 05:09 |
| elb | if you look, it's the same version you have installed, if you're urnning 50-2 | 05:09 |
| kaje | oh, I'm not running 50-2... my next question is should I upgrade even though it is going to wipe everything out? | 05:09 |
| elb | pupnik: pretty sure | 05:09 |
| pupnik | kaje open application manager, install new package and openssh-client should be in the 'communication' section | 05:10 |
| elb | kaje: upgrade before you have anything to wipe out ;-) | 05:10 |
| elb | pupnik: it wasn't for me, at first | 05:10 |
| kaje | ok, will do | 05:10 |
| elb | maybe you have to be in red pill mode | 05:10 |
| elb | I thought it was maemo extras that showed it up, but apt-cache policy says it's probably not | 05:10 |
| pupnik | strange, policy shows it being in main repository, but gronmayer says your right. | 05:11 |
| pupnik | kaje if you need to find packages, this is the lace to search http://gronmayer.com/it/index.php | 05:11 |
| kaje | yep, just found it after adding that repository | 05:11 |
| elb | MYSTERIOUS | 05:11 |
| pupnik | be sure to click on OS2008 to search for N810 packages | 05:11 |
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| kaje | what package manager does maemo use at the command line? | 05:11 |
| pupnik | dpkg/apt | 05:12 |
| elb | kaje: if you back up to the internal memory card (not the disk named after the device), when you upgrade it will automatically restore a lot of things | 05:12 |
| kaje | hmm, is apt not in the path for the normal user? I tried a simple "apt" and it said it didn't exist | 05:12 |
| elb | there is no 'apt' command; you'll mostly use apt-cache and apt-get | 05:12 |
| kaje | ahh, ok | 05:12 |
| elb | apt-cache is used to query the package database, and apt-get is used to install and remove packages | 05:13 |
| kaje | yeah, I did a backup to mmc2, but I was going to scp it off to a server since I figured the upgrade will wipe it... | 05:13 |
| elb | dpkg handles some more low-level things, but you'll also use it to list installed packages | 05:13 |
| kaje | this thing rocks so far... although it seems like maybe the cpu is a little under powered | 05:13 |
| elb | there's also an rsync package | 05:13 |
| elb | which you may find useful for backups | 05:14 |
| elb | what there is NOT is a good editor package :-P | 05:15 |
| kaje | no emacs? | 05:15 |
| kaje | although I guess emacs would be difficult with all the control sequences | 05:15 |
| elb | no emacs | 05:16 |
| elb | I put jed on mine, and it runs OK | 05:16 |
| elb | but yeah ... Ctrl is an issue ;-) | 05:16 |
| kaje | Also, when I try to install Skype, it complains that libhildonfm2 and libhildonmime0 are missing but required | 05:17 |
| kaje | does rdesktop work with gnome's remote desktop vnc? | 05:18 |
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| elb | there is a maemo vnc client | 05:19 |
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| elb | I don't know about the rdesktop | 05:19 |
| kaje | cool, any thoughts on the skype? | 05:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | emacs would take up more room than any single other application that comes bundled with the thing. . . . | 05:19 |
| elb | no idea, it worked for me | 05:19 |
| elb | GeneralAntilles: except maps ;-) | 05:20 |
| kaje | maybe the update will fix it | 05:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, if you throw in the data. | 05:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | But just considering the application itself. . . . | 05:20 |
| elb | it's also a zillion times more useful than any of the apps that come with it ;-) | 05:21 |
| elb | but that's precisely why I installed jed, instead | 05:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh, install it if you want it. | 05:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | My argument was simply that bundling it would be retarded. :P | 05:22 |
| elb | bundling it, sure | 05:22 |
| elb | but it's not even available third-party | 05:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is too. | 05:23 |
| elb | where? | 05:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16189 | 05:23 |
| elb | hah | 05:23 |
| elb | last time I looked, that guy had said he was working on it, but it wasn't available | 05:23 |
| elb | there was also a guy who had a screenshot of the Gtk+ port running in hildon and everything ... but he "didn't remember" what he had to do to make it work :-P | 05:24 |
| kaje | what is the password for user? it won't let me sudo | 05:25 |
| kaje | trying to apt-get something | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Install gainroot. | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | There is no password for user. | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | and user isn't in sudoers. | 05:25 |
| johnx | kaje, you need to ssh in as root or get "becomeroot" | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 05:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | gainroot . . . | 05:26 |
| elb | too bad itt is a shitty web forum :-P | 05:26 |
| elb | I really wish people didn't pop those things up like they were reasonable | 05:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Information is information. | 05:26 |
| johnx | elb, what would you prefer? | 05:26 |
| kaje | so, I need to install the openssh server then? is there any way that I can set a password for root? | 05:26 |
| elb | but it doesn't have to be painful to access | 05:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is it? | 05:26 |
| elb | johnx: usenet was *far* superior, for starters | 05:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Works fine on every device here. | 05:27 |
| elb | if by "works fine" you mean "slow and painful", sure | 05:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | kaje, it'll make you set one as part of the install | 05:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | install the meta package | 05:27 |
| elb | there's no good way to just slurp all posts since your last read, for example | 05:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | elb, there's a link right on the front page. | 05:27 |
| kaje | I don't see gainroot in the graphical package manager... | 05:27 |
| elb | ... to posts which you can click one at a time | 05:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | kaje, becomeroot | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it's in the eko1 repository | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'll probably have to add it. | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | see gronmayer.com/it | 05:28 |
| johnx | elb, I will grant you that | 05:28 |
| lcuk_3 | but dont add all repos, it just confuses the matter ;) | 05:28 |
| elb | web forums also generally have *really* shitty threading support | 05:28 |
| johnx | web forums are a concession to those who are intimidated by usenet I guess... | 05:28 |
| elb | (as itt does) | 05:28 |
| johnx | yeah, the lack of good threading causes pain | 05:29 |
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| elb | the browser is simply a very poor interface for message-reading, in any form that I've ever seen it | 05:29 |
| lcuk_3 | if i need information now i just scrollback in here. chances are great someone has searched and posted | 05:29 |
| lcuk_3 | speaking of the browser, is there a way to alter its default link clicking so a single click opens in new page | 05:30 |
| lcuk_3 | new window ^ | 05:30 |
| elb | if there is, please let me know | 05:30 |
| elb | ;-) | 05:30 |
| elb | or if there's some other reasonable way to open a link in a new page | 05:30 |
| penguinba | lcuk, hold on link until menu comes up | 05:30 |
| elb | as well as opening links in the background | 05:31 |
| lcuk_3 | tap.hold hold hold DAMN moved. try again tap. hold hold hold ahhh select | 05:31 |
| penguinba | hehe | 05:31 |
| lcuk_3 | its a bit of a struggle | 05:31 |
| penguinba | I use konqueror | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | They screwed up the tap'n'hold menu with OS2008 somehow. | 05:31 |
| penguinba | i can right click, open new tab | 05:31 |
| lcuk_3 | with a stylus? | 05:31 |
| lcuk_3 | my old tablet had 2 buttons on the stylus, but it also had a battery | 05:32 |
| penguinba | i have hardware key mapped to toggle right click, left click | 05:32 |
| elb | especially if you don't have your stylus out | 05:32 |
| johnx | has anyone heard anything more about that xomap rotation support? | 05:32 |
| elb | I find that my tap-and-hold accuracy with a fingernail is ... not great | 05:32 |
| lcuk_3 | i hate using my finger for the normal things - like brightness and volume and stuff | 05:33 |
| lcuk_3 | but i wish it worked | 05:33 |
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| johnx | woo! the dude added patches for xomap rotation support | 05:39 |
| johnx | :D | 05:39 |
| pupnik | those idnt guys do nice stuff | 05:39 |
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| johnx | hopefully I can start a compile before work | 05:40 |
| kaje | thanks for all the help tonight guys | 05:40 |
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| Tama^2 | >.> | 06:11 |
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| Navi | :3 | 06:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Navi, don't play with that! | 06:13 |
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| pupnik | plonk | 06:16 |
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| smackpotato | braddbr: there is some information on x and the keyboard here https://garage.maemo.org/snippet/browse.php?by=lang&lang=2 | 06:19 |
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| Tama^2 | oh dear, the mac os skin for garage is ugly | 06:27 |
| Tama^2 | everytime I look at it I think: "arrgh what is THAT" then I remember *I* set it | 06:28 |
| Tama^2 | -_- | 06:28 |
| Navi | Haha | 06:28 |
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| fmedina | hello | 07:26 |
| fmedina | is thre a general n800/os2008 help channel? | 07:26 |
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| legind | fmedina, you're in it. ask if google doesn't help you first | 07:28 |
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| fmedina | coolness | 07:29 |
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| tigrux | Hello guys. | 07:40 |
| tigrux | Following a hint I got here, my youtube viewer is named tablet-tuber. | 07:41 |
| tigrux | I also have a one-click installer. | 07:41 |
| tigrux | http://tigrux.homelinux.org/tigrux/tablet-tuber/tablet-tuber.install | 07:41 |
| tigrux | I also added support for conic. | 07:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | UKTube sorta deal? | 07:43 |
| tigrux | GeneralAntilles: Mine uses gstreamer, no idea the other. | 07:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | mplayer | 07:44 |
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| hhedberg | Downloads section seems to be messed again. | 08:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody hit it with as stick. | 08:45 |
| hhedberg | I updated Mauku information for each IT OS release, and suddenly all the entries jumped under the IT OS 2007. No entries in OS 2006 or OS 2008 anymore, but three allmost the same entries under the OS 2007. :( | 08:46 |
| hhedberg | Is someone having a stick alive here? :) | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably not. | 08:46 |
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| doc|home | having a stick? | 08:49 |
| doc|home | ah, I get you | 08:50 |
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| Tama^2 | hawtness | 09:04 |
| Tama^2 | xD | 09:04 |
| Tama^2 | lol, I thought I would be replying to this: fmedina: coolness | 09:04 |
| Tama^2 | but my window stopped scrolling a while ago, whops | 09:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ho ho . . . tablet-tuber is awesome! | 09:05 |
| Tama^2 | O.o | 09:06 |
| * Tama^2 googles 'tablet-tuber' | 09:06 | |
| GeneralAntilles | It's probably in your scrollback. | 09:06 |
| Tama^2 | it is | 09:07 |
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| Minti | how to add "volume" to dspmp3sink ? | 09:49 |
| Minti | i used gst_element_link_many (source, volume, sink,NULL); | 09:51 |
| AD-N770 | Minti: I don't believe that this can work | 09:56 |
| AD-N770 | volume works on the raw audio data | 09:56 |
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| Minti | yes it is not working giving internal data flow error | 09:57 |
| AD-N770 | minti: gst-inspect-0.10 dspmp3sink | 09:58 |
| Minti | AD-N770 , is there any other way to set and get volume on dspmp3sink | 09:58 |
| AD-N770 | minti: property fvolume on dspmp3sink | 09:59 |
| AD-N770 | minti: run gst-inspect to see all the properties | 09:59 |
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| AD-N770 | minti: there's also a volume property | 10:00 |
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| sleetdrop | anyone know how to let a unfocused window to get focus in gtk+ | 10:02 |
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| AD-N770 | minti; if you don't have gst-inspect on the device you have to install gstreamer tools package | 10:02 |
| Minti | AD_N770, yes i run the same , u mean using g_object_set(...), i can set the volume | 10:03 |
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| AD-N770 | Minti: yes | 10:06 |
| Minti | AD-N770 , Thank you , i got it , i am trying it | 10:07 |
| AD-N770 | I'll be back later | 10:08 |
| AD-N770 | see u | 10:08 |
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| LL00 | which weather applet you guys use? | 11:20 |
| johnx | omweather | 11:20 |
| LL00 | on download pages there are 2 omweather | 11:20 |
| LL00 | are both same? | 11:20 |
| johnx | yeah, pretty sure | 11:21 |
| Tama^2 | I think they are | 11:21 |
| LL00 | with yellow text right? | 11:21 |
| johnx | yeah ( you can change that of course ) | 11:22 |
| LL00 | what about omweather icons set? do you use default one or another ones? | 11:23 |
| johnx | I'm using the crystal icon set right now | 11:24 |
| johnx | though Grzankas is nice too | 11:24 |
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| anders_ | Is there some calendar app for os2008? Read only of vcal files is fine. | 11:25 |
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| johnx | gpe calendar should do that I think | 11:27 |
| johnx | Dates looks nice, as well, but I don't know what it can import | 11:27 |
| Spakman_ | np | 11:29 |
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| Spakman_ | oops | 11:29 |
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| anders_ | Oh, dates indeed looks nice. | 11:30 |
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| AD-N770 | bon dia / good morning | 11:33 |
| johnx | mornin' | 11:33 |
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| |tbb| | morning all | 11:42 |
| Tobotras | afternoon | 11:43 |
| jku | some people just have no problem abusing mailing lists: "my application segfaults. Any hints?" (after several googleable other problems) | 11:45 |
| johnx | entrance exams? member fees? | 11:47 |
| X-Fade_ | Internet diploma ;) | 11:47 |
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| icepolarpolar | hi morning .. | 11:52 |
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| LL00 | does pge pack is cool? | 12:15 |
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| Tobotras | Where do I put an app icon to be accessible from .desktop's Icon=? | 12:16 |
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| * Tobotras cant install application manager's icon :( | 12:54 | |
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| florian | good morning | 12:59 |
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| fugitivo | morning | 13:07 |
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| icepolarpolar | hi may i ask what would be the standard packages to use for XML signature and encryption in maemo? | 13:21 |
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| jku | icepolarpolar, xmlsec is not included so I guess there's no standard | 13:23 |
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| csjpeter | hi all | 13:24 |
| jku | still, I'd use xmlsec as libxml is included | 13:24 |
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| icepolarpolar | umm thanks jku | 13:26 |
| icepolarpolar | i have been taking programming for granted when using java, JCE etc .. | 13:26 |
| jku | taking what granted? | 13:26 |
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| icepolarpolar | sorry i mean i am more familiar with Java | 13:28 |
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| icepolarpolar | :) | 13:36 |
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| keesj | icepolarpolar: XML signature and encryption in maemo? what is that? | 14:16 |
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| keesj | are you searching for xml specific methods of encapsulating and existing xml inside an armour? | 14:17 |
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| icepolarpolar | i am searching for the ways to ensure XML data integrity | 14:19 |
| icepolarpolar | have tried with xmlsec1 but i encountered some problems .. i dont get the same problem in ubuntu .. | 14:19 |
| icepolarpolar | i am not sure if it is due to the openssl version .. | 14:20 |
| icepolarpolar | in maemo we have openssl 0.9.7 | 14:20 |
| icepolarpolar | but xmlsec prefers 0.9.8 | 14:20 |
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| icepolarpolar | maybe it is just i setup xmlsec wrongly .. :( | 14:22 |
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| Tobotras | Anybody else unhappy with builtin contacts viewer? | 14:52 |
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| Jaffa | Anyone tried v2.2007.51-3 yet? Lack of a bump in initial release number suggests it is just a minor bugfix release | 15:50 |
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| jku | Jaffa, there's a new release? | 16:02 |
| jku | tablets-dev.nokia.com is down, AFAICT | 16:02 |
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| hahlo | hehe tried n800 in windows with some beta-wc-suite, windows things it is a camera and beta-wc-suite screams device connected in wrong mode | 16:08 |
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| Jaffa | jku: it's just slow as a drunk snail | 16:11 |
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| Jaffa | RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 16:11 |
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| jku | something very wrong with the servers again, anyway -- I haven't seen this announced anywhere yet so there can't billions of people downloading at the same time... | 16:15 |
| jku | s/can't/can't be/ | 16:15 |
| infobot | jku meant: something very wrong with the servers again, anyway -- I haven't seen this announced anywhere yet so there can't be billions of people downloading at the same time... | 16:15 |
| solmumaha | maybe new hacker? | 16:16 |
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| jku | I guess it's time to fire up the torrents again -- if anyone manages to download it | 16:17 |
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| X-Fade_ | jku: Someone can also make a binary diff. It is only 1.1KB size difference, so I guess the patch wouldn't be that big ;) | 16:22 |
| jott | or repack the packages with new versions :) | 16:26 |
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| X-Fade_ | jott: There are no updated packes. | 16:26 |
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| X-Fade_ | Just the bootloader fixes. | 16:26 |
| jott | ah ok.. | 16:26 |
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| X-Fade_ | It is the fix for the power-on issue some tablets have. | 16:27 |
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| X-Fade_ | So there is really no point downloading it, if you don't suffer from that problem. | 16:29 |
| jott | yeah i figured that ;) | 16:30 |
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| X-Fade_ | But at least it helps the people that had to put the device in the freezer ;) | 16:32 |
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| MangoFusion | power on issue? | 16:32 |
| X-Fade_ | MangoFusion: You don't have it ;) | 16:33 |
| MangoFusion | haha | 16:33 |
| jott | it would save bandwith to just release a flash-able bootloader ;) .. | 16:34 |
| jott | and you would not even need to reflash your base system .. | 16:34 |
| X-Fade_ | MangoFusion: The device wouldn't start if some people rebooted their device. | 16:34 |
| MangoFusion | ah | 16:34 |
| X-Fade_ | jott: You don't have to. Just flash bootloader seperately.. | 16:34 |
| MangoFusion | well mine has been working fine so far - no serious issues | 16:34 |
| MangoFusion | apart from OS2008, but that is a whole other issue ;) | 16:35 |
| X-Fade_ | I don't have the problem either. | 16:35 |
| jott | a ~150mb bootloader ;p | 16:35 |
| * jott remembers his asm handwritten 512 byte mbr code he used in the dos times | 16:37 | |
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| fooo | I'm looking at doing some fullscreen gfx coding, and am wondering if just using stock SDL provides the shortest route between a RAM buffer and the screen | 16:50 |
| fooo | This is for full screen update every frame | 16:50 |
| fooo | yes, I know it won't be 60fps ;=P | 16:51 |
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| jku | fooo, are you aware of the screen update problems? | 16:51 |
| fooo | I know of the bandwidth problem and upper limits around 20fps | 16:52 |
| jku | full screen update is not smooth, AFAIK | 16:52 |
| fooo | but not too many details | 16:52 |
| fooo | I'm a long-time programmer, but have never delved into Linux graphics programming | 16:52 |
| fooo | but are there other emerging ways bypassing SDL to get any better performance, or is it best to just stick with SDL? | 16:53 |
| mgedmin | afaiu the hardware doesn't let do full-screen 800x480 updates | 16:55 |
| mgedmin | you get ugly tearing effects | 16:55 |
| fooo | that doesn't really matter too much | 16:55 |
| mgedmin | or so I've heard | 16:55 |
| fooo | for me at least | 16:55 |
| fooo | If doing something straight through X or another abstraction layer pushes full, unclipped, un-color-transformed buffers through faster, I'd like to start with that instead of having to port over later | 16:56 |
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| boolean | morning... does anyone know if there is/was a bsd port to either n770, n800 or n810? | 17:55 |
| zoran | yeah, no connections as I know | 17:57 |
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| glass | nobodys discussed a bsd port iirc | 17:57 |
| zoran | I recall netbsd rumours | 17:58 |
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| boolean | there is always netbsd rumours for any hardware :) | 18:00 |
| zoran | soem dude installed it and used via ssh | 18:01 |
| zoran | *some | 18:01 |
| zoran | if it suits end user :) | 18:01 |
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| zoran | hm, bsd could be tricky, since it has no security net belloqw | 18:05 |
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| * Tobotras reads 10 line making gtk dialog for 100th time and can't see his fault.... | 18:09 | |
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| cein | is there a way to backup the entire internal drive to a .bin? | 18:13 |
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| felipec | cein: dd? | 18:15 |
| cein | can i run it from the device? | 18:16 |
| cein | i guess just mount it from an external box and run it there eh | 18:17 |
| zoran | you have to unmount fs first? | 18:17 |
| cein | well the bottom line is how do i access the disk without ssh | 18:18 |
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| zoran | usb? | 18:19 |
| cein | the root fs? | 18:20 |
| zoran | should be | 18:20 |
| cein | how | 18:20 |
| zoran | is it seen ans umass device? | 18:20 |
| cein | just the mmc | 18:21 |
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| felipec | cein: that's not good | 18:22 |
| cein | ? | 18:22 |
| cein | this is an n770 btw | 18:22 |
| zoran | cein, I ment is it seen on desktop as umass? | 18:22 |
| zoran | try in console | 18:22 |
| zoran | it shows a lot of specs for device | 18:22 |
| zoran | or in messages | 18:23 |
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| cein | it's a local disk in my computer | 18:23 |
| zoran | there you could take a look at all kind of da0, da1 | 18:23 |
| cein | hmm | 18:26 |
| zoran | /var/logs | 18:26 |
| cein | no idea what you're talking about | 18:26 |
| zoran | :) | 18:26 |
| zoran | my mom neither | 18:26 |
| cein | heh | 18:26 |
| zoran | k, plug in powered off device at usb port | 18:27 |
| zoran | power it on | 18:27 |
| zoran | then take a look at /var/log/messages | 18:27 |
| zoran | and in /dev directory | 18:27 |
| zoran | afeter you indentify the correct device name, mount it | 18:28 |
| cein | i'm in windows | 18:28 |
| cein | but i can fix that.. bbiab | 18:28 |
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| zoran | if not, you could use raw aspect with dd | 18:28 |
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| * zoran gone to feed dragons | 18:29 | |
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| kaje1 | anyone know if there is a PPTP gui available for the n810? | 19:09 |
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| Jaffa | kaje1: there is no PPTP GUI for the N810 | 19:22 |
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| blassey | dougt: I just got rescheduled | 19:30 |
| blassey | do you want to get started now? | 19:30 |
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| nwidger | are there any good word processors for the n810 capable of editing .doc files? | 20:36 |
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| hrw|gone | http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/02/19/i-am-dad-now/ | 20:39 |
| inz | hrw, congrats | 20:39 |
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| fooo | I'd like just a better .txt file editor. The default Notes one has a font that's WAY too big to fit anything onscreen, but I haven't nosed around the options | 20:42 |
| fooo | "options" being the downloadable alternatives; the program options are bare | 20:43 |
| fooo | also, landscape mode would be nice | 20:43 |
| * mgedmin_ likes vim | 20:43 | |
| fooo | do you use a file manager to fire up vim? | 20:44 |
| fooo | that's another thing I need a decent replacement for... | 20:44 |
| MangoFusion | landscape mode? it's already landscape... | 20:44 |
| fooo | "sideways" mode, whatever ;) | 20:44 |
| MangoFusion | oh portrait? | 20:45 |
| Navi | Fire up gvim or get your filemanager to fire up a terminal running vim | 20:45 |
| fooo | yep | 20:45 |
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| fooo | Which file manager do you use? | 20:45 |
| Navi | On my desktop? | 20:45 |
| fooo | on your tablet | 20:45 |
| Navi | I don't have a tablet | 20:45 |
| MangoFusion | good luck with that | 20:46 |
| fooo | Actually, I wouldn't mind a straight up lightweight linux on my ITT instead of this custom hildon stuff | 20:46 |
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| Navi | I dpn | 20:47 |
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| Navi | I don't really care for the custom hildon stuff, no offense to any of the devs in here. | 20:47 |
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| * lcuk waves from his 810 | 21:00 | |
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| * Navi throws rocks at lcuk's 810 | 21:01 | |
| * lcuk installs vista on navis computer | 21:01 | |
| * Navi luls 'cuz you can't install Vista on this computer. | 21:01 | |
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| Navi | I'm assuming you just got the 810, right? | 21:02 |
| lcuk | you are about to install vista on navis computer (cancel) or (allow) | 21:02 |
| lcuk | no had it ages i just dont like typing in irc with it | 21:03 |
| Navi | mmk | 21:03 |
| MoRpHeUz | anybody here uses maemo mapper and noticed that the device is rebooting when using it for a while ? | 21:03 |
| lcuk | its the last day i have to use this tiny kb | 21:03 |
| Navi | Getting a bluetooth keyboard? | 21:03 |
| lcuk | yer apple wireless its in wrapping paper | 21:03 |
| Navi | :3 | 21:03 |
| Navi | I'm still a hundred bucks away from an N800 | 21:05 |
| derf | MoRpHeUz: Maemo mapper and the mmc driver seem to have some real disagreements. | 21:05 |
| Navi | Only forty bucks away from a GP2X | 21:05 |
| MoRpHeUz | derf: hhmm...I have the maps database and the maps itself inside mmc2 | 21:06 |
| Navi | Though, why I'd buy one again is beyond me. | 21:06 |
| derf | Though on my N810 I haven't had a single issue since I reformatted as ext3. | 21:06 |
| MoRpHeUz | hhmm... | 21:06 |
| MangoFusion | all my IT needs | 21:08 |
| MangoFusion | is tv out | 21:08 |
| MangoFusion | or | 21:08 |
| MangoFusion | a magnifying lens | 21:08 |
| MangoFusion | neither of which i have, so i guess i'll just have to keep on squinting ;) | 21:09 |
| MangoFusion | hmm, i was going to get a GP2X a while back, are they actually any good? | 21:09 |
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| * Tobotras have finished quick contacts viewer. | 21:10 | |
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| MangoFusion | neat | 21:12 |
| Navi | They're nice for light gaming | 21:12 |
| Navi | and emulation | 21:12 |
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| pupnik_ | MangoFusion: if i wanted a games-only portable device today i would get the gp2x. | 21:15 |
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| keesj | pupnik_: really? not a psp or ds-lite ? | 21:16 |
| MangoFusion | don't think i am that desperate yet, so i think i'll stick with my n800 ;) | 21:16 |
| MangoFusion | otherwise i'll be overloaded with gadgets and chargers, etc | 21:17 |
| keesj | I saw the new proto on linuxdevices . http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7004794073.html | 21:19 |
| keesj | pandora !! | 21:19 |
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| lcuk | mango have you got anther machine at home on the network, if so use vnc | 21:19 |
| pupnik_ | i like the way the psx looks, but i hate sony. don't like the way the ds-lite looks and am neutral about nintendo. think the gp2x looks nice enough and i love the gp2x community | 21:20 |
| pupnik_ | yeah pandEUROa | 21:20 |
| lcuk | gp has similar hardware to 8x0 doesnt it | 21:21 |
| pupnik_ | the gp2x is like the overclocked predecessor cpu to the nokia 770 core | 21:21 |
| lcuk | which gaming devicehas 2420 | 21:22 |
| glass | n95 ":D".. | 21:22 |
| MangoFusion | lcuk: sure, that's great but what if i am "on the road" so to speak? | 21:23 |
| lcuk | but that has ngage as well | 21:23 |
| MangoFusion | unless i could do something ridiculously silly like adhoc my n800 + n95 together and vnc to get tv out ;) | 21:23 |
| lcuk | if you are on the road are you gonna lug a tv around? | 21:23 |
| MangoFusion | though in all seriousness it would probably not be useful, haha | 21:23 |
| MangoFusion | true, most likely not | 21:24 |
| MangoFusion | just me overthinking | 21:24 |
| MangoFusion | which brings me to the magnifying lens, haha | 21:27 |
| Navi | The GP2X uses the MagicEyes MMSP2 SoC | 21:27 |
| Navi | It's not close to the OMAP2420 other than an ARM processor | 21:28 |
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| Navi | Huh, you can get a refurbed GP2X for 100 bucks. | 21:35 |
| Navi | Beats the 250ish I paid for it ages ago. | 21:35 |
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| lcuk | mango upgrade your eyes to include a macrozoom function | 21:37 |
| lcuk | or just do the old fashioned way - move it closer | 21:37 |
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| MangoFusion | true, could do that | 21:41 |
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| fooo | The n800 screen isn't good enough for me. Half the size and 440dpi would be better. ;) | 21:44 |
| Navi | :P | 21:49 |
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| elb | the n800 screen rules | 22:05 |
| elb | too bad the X server has a horribly misconfigured DPI | 22:05 |
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| lcuk_3 | if it were configured correctly though you could get about 2 lines of text on couldnt you | 22:11 |
| lcuk_3 | there are so many programs which assume 8pt is just a "small" font without thinking its a physical measurement | 22:11 |
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| EruditeHermit | hey guys | 22:24 |
| EruditeHermit | anyone tried the new OS2008 update? | 22:24 |
| maddler | no... just found it was released! | 22:24 |
| Navi | new? | 22:25 |
| LastLemming | new os2008 release with new n830 release too | 22:26 |
| jacques-work | ?? | 22:26 |
| maddler | 51-3 | 22:26 |
| EruditeHermit | yep | 22:27 |
| maddler | jacques-work: just discovered while haning on maemo.org downloads... | 22:27 |
| LastLemming | with wimax config features | 22:27 |
| EruditeHermit | are there any release notes for it? | 22:27 |
| LastLemming | maybe | 22:27 |
| maddler | EruditeHermit: not AFAIK | 22:27 |
| EruditeHermit | I don't want to be the first to test it =p | 22:27 |
| jacques-work | verry interesting | 22:27 |
| EruditeHermit | I wish we didn't have to flash things either | 22:27 |
| lcuk_3 | Scotty, we need those webservers running at warp 8. im sorry cap'n she's gonna break apart when all these geeks find out theres an update | 22:28 |
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| maddler | hehehehe... | 22:28 |
| maddler | EruditeHermit: I'm going to flash as soon the backup is done | 22:29 |
| lcuk_3 | i, for one, will be pissed if they bring out an upgraded model so soon | 22:29 |
| Navi | LastLemming, ah, I see. Sweet, how much does the new n830 cost? I hope that it's under 1,000USD | 22:29 |
| lcuk_3 | software update = the good, hardware = grrrr | 22:29 |
| elb | lcuk_3: keep in mind that the 770 was replaced twice and EOL'd in like 2 years ;-) | 22:29 |
| Navi | I'd be happy | 22:29 |
| LastLemming | I think n830 it's only n810+wimax | 22:29 |
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| Navi | Yet another price cut on the N800, closer to my affordability | 22:30 |
| lcuk_3 | i bloody hope so - different connection model i can live with | 22:30 |
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| lcuk_3 | ahhh - i wonder what would happen if i rma'd mine because of faulty gps | 22:30 |
| Navi | if a new hardware revision is to be released | 22:30 |
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| EruditeHermit | lol | 22:30 |
| EruditeHermit | I just got an n800 | 22:30 |
| LastLemming | same | 22:30 |
| Navi | I'm broke. | 22:30 |
| lcuk_3 | im broken hearted | 22:30 |
| EruditeHermit | I wouldn't mind because I got it for 1/2 price of an n810 and its not that different | 22:31 |
| * Navi hopes for a hardware revision | 22:31 | |
| Navi | within two weeks ;) | 22:31 |
| EruditeHermit | maddler: let me know how it goes | 22:32 |
| elb | nokia.com still only shows 50-1 | 22:32 |
| EruditeHermit | maddler: I am scared to do it =p | 22:32 |
| elb | err, 50-2 | 22:32 |
| Navi | http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/nokia-n830-wimax-equipped-internet-tablet-photo-leaked/ | 22:32 |
| lcuk_3 | wimax = mobile cellular data network isnt it | 22:32 |
| maddler | hehe | 22:32 |
| Navi | Lol | 22:32 |
| elb | which I've been running for weeks | 22:32 |
| * Navi smells photoshop | 22:32 | |
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| maddler | Navi: it is | 22:33 |
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| Navi | maddler, liar | 22:34 |
| EruditeHermit | maddler: its taking forever to download | 22:34 |
| EruditeHermit | lol | 22:34 |
| elb | huh, but there's a 51-3 on the web site | 22:34 |
| elb | stupid synchronization problems | 22:34 |
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| lcuk_3 | ok, nokia are advertising their entire range under one open platform branding - lets wait until they push ngage for omap 2420 hardware and then hit then hard and fast with a major - and i mean major - tshirt campaign | 22:35 |
| maddler | EruditeHermit: it was pretty fast here... | 22:36 |
| elb | what is this t-shirt campaign supposed to accomplish? | 22:36 |
| j0tt | anyone confirmed that it's just an update bootloader? | 22:36 |
| Navi | I'd like a free t-shirt. | 22:36 |
| Navi | Don't knock the t-shirt campaigns | 22:36 |
| milhouse | does WiMAX require a SIM card? | 22:39 |
| maddler | flashing | 22:39 |
| LastLemming | it's like wimax better bandwith and range | 22:39 |
| LastLemming | it's like wifi, better bandwith and range | 22:40 |
| milhouse | a change log would be nice.... | 22:40 |
| * milhouse dreams | 22:40 | |
| elb | Nokia has been saying their WiMax will be Sprint, and Sprint is CDMA | 22:40 |
| elb | so ... I'm not seeing a SIM card ;-) | 22:40 |
| milhouse | yes, but does WiMAX require any kind of hardware authentication module? | 22:40 |
| milhouse | elb: ah ok thanks | 22:40 |
| lcuk_3 | engadget comments say the same advert is in newspapers with corrected text | 22:40 |
| lcuk_3 | n810... | 22:41 |
| LastLemming | any one use granule? | 22:41 |
| milhouse | i can't imagine there is a great deal of difference between 50-2 and 51-3 - just the WiMAX additions would sound about right, perhaps a few minor bug fixes... | 22:41 |
| milhouse | but then again... why release 51-3 for N800/N810 when they don't have WiMAX? | 22:42 |
| lcuk_3 | i thought the 50 was weeknumber | 22:42 |
| milhouse | it is... so these builds are from late last year | 22:42 |
| milhouse | s/builds/new builds/ | 22:42 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: it is... so these new builds are from late last year | 22:42 |
| lcuk_3 | or they are from the future | 22:43 |
| milhouse | that would be nice - maybe then we'd get a changelog | 22:43 |
| lcuk_3 | it could even just be a minor bugfix for something obvious they fixed just after as a stopgap for other things (something like gps adjustment since lots of complaints are there?) | 22:44 |
| j0tt | .. < X-Fade_> It is the fix for the power-on issue some tablets have. | 22:45 |
| milhouse | ah yes, that would make sense... | 22:45 |
| milhouse | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2673 | 22:45 |
| j0tt | speaking so, the kernel is the same | 22:46 |
| j0tt | as is the initfs.. | 22:46 |
| milhouse | maybe a post in that bug would alert those who have been nailed by it | 22:46 |
| j0tt | the rootfs is different as the bootloader | 22:46 |
| milhouse | they can take their n8x0 devices out of the fridge at last... | 22:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 22:47 |
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| EruditeHermit | maddler: did you flash yet? | 22:47 |
| elb | yeah, the cargo-cultism on that thread is *staggering* | 22:47 |
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| milhouse | i guess they're desperate - understandable really, as it's a shit situation to be in | 22:48 |
| elb | oh, yeah, I understand the frustration | 22:48 |
| elb | but ... come on, a g-spot on the power button that works when you hold the tablet at a certain angle? | 22:48 |
| milhouse | well yeah... granted :) | 22:48 |
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| milhouse | freezer sounds implausible, but seems to work! | 22:49 |
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| maddler | EruditeHermit: flashed! :D | 22:50 |
| maddler | EruditeHermit: at least it didn't bricked my n810! :D | 22:50 |
| EruditeHermit | maddler: any differences? | 22:50 |
| milhouse | Anyone giving odds on whether the maemo.org infra has a melt down over the next 24 hours? I'm giving 2/1 on | 22:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm more worried about tablets-dev. | 22:51 |
| milhouse | yeah, that too | 22:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did the firmware jump in size again? 134.7 | 22:51 |
| milhouse | nobody announce this new firmware until i've sucked down both images!! :) | 22:52 |
| elb | both? | 22:52 |
| maddler | EruditeHermit: hunting for changes! :D | 22:52 |
| EruditeHermit | lol | 22:53 |
| maddler | milhouse: lol! | 22:53 |
| Tak | cargo-cultism? | 22:53 |
| EruditeHermit | i am at 37% | 22:53 |
| mwaldron | is there a firmware newer than 51-3 or is that wahty you're downloading mil? | 22:53 |
| EruditeHermit | its so slow | 22:53 |
| maddler | ok... I give you 15 minutes! :D | 22:53 |
| milhouse | tablets-dev v. slow.... dying? | 22:53 |
| maddler | 51-3 is the last one... | 22:53 |
| EruditeHermit | maddler: I need 25 | 22:53 |
| EruditeHermit | lol | 22:53 |
| mwaldron | they announced that yesterday on itt :) | 22:53 |
| EruditeHermit | 50kb/s | 22:53 |
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| maddler | too much! | 22:53 |
| maddler | mwaldron: I didn't noticed... :) | 22:54 |
| elb | Tak: believing in the power of meaningless rituals because they seemed to have had an effect in the past ... a reference to SE Asian cultures following WWII, which believed that if they made up fake airstrips and airplane-looking objects, that magical "cargo" would fall from the sky | 22:54 |
| Tak | ah | 22:54 |
| elb | Tak: they saw Allied airstrips and relief distributions, and connected the two, but didn't understand the connection | 22:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Getting 250KB/sec here, milhouse. | 22:55 |
| lcuk_3 | what the hell are you lot about re power up problems? i have no issues booting up my nokia. i just stand on my head with a peg on my nose and one foot in the freezer and it comes on EVERYTIME! | 22:55 |
| milhouse | my two downloads are going ok... i can access the bbc ok... but pulling up the tablets-dev n800 and n810 pages is a no-go | 22:56 |
| maddler | GeneralAntilles: same here | 22:56 |
| EruditeHermit | maddler: if you flash, do you need to reinstall all applications? | 22:56 |
| milhouse | Erudite: yep | 22:56 |
| EruditeHermit | that sucks | 22:56 |
| elb | I got the n810 image pretty quickly | 22:56 |
| maddler | EruditeHermit: yep... do a backup before flashing | 22:56 |
| EruditeHermit | will all the chinook apps be compatible? | 22:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | EruditeHermit, run a backup | 22:56 |
| lcuk_3 | EruditeHermit, take a backup first, it backs up your repo list and list of installed apps and tries to put them back | 22:56 |
| milhouse | maybe i'm limited to 2 connections to tablets-dev... | 22:56 |
| elb | but I just re-flashed yesterday, so ... I'm not excited to install it ;-) | 22:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | it'll keep a list of your applications and reinstall them. | 22:56 |
| EruditeHermit | cool | 22:56 |
| elb | I have not had good luck with it actually reinstalling them | 22:57 |
| elb | in fact, I had to reflash once because it mucked things up | 22:57 |
| lcuk_3 | not everything manages it though because sometimes things arent available this time or they were installed from now deleted debs etc - but you should get most things back from reputable sources | 22:57 |
| elb | I think if you've installed anything which required red pill mode it should be treated with extreme caution | 22:57 |
| elb | in my case, it failed on the rtcomm stuff, and left the package database in an inconsistent state | 22:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Enable extras, and make sure to uncheck all the 0KB items in the list. | 22:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'll be fine then. | 22:58 |
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| elb | I *could* have fixed it with dpkg, but since that was first thing after flash, reflashing and installing by hand was easier | 22:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | elb, rtcomm-beta? | 22:58 |
| elb | GeneralAntilles: yes | 22:58 |
| lcuk_3 | and dont forget to put the peg on your nose! | 22:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that requires red-pill and their weird custom installer thing. | 22:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can see how that might fail. ;) | 22:59 |
| elb | yeah | 22:59 |
| elb | it did :-) | 22:59 |
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| EruditeH1rmit | lol | 23:00 |
| EruditeH1rmit | my net connection died | 23:00 |
| EruditeH1rmit | and I had to restart the downlaod | 23:01 |
| EruditeH1rmit | =( | 23:01 |
| milhouse | think i'll announce the new firmware in the power drama bug... only seems fair to let those know who have put in the effort to comment against the bug. | 23:02 |
| EruditeH1rmit | wait for 21mins! | 23:02 |
| EruditeH1rmit | =p | 23:02 |
| maddler | hmmm... can't find any visible change | 23:02 |
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| milhouse | hmmm... as one download finishes my page request at tablet-dev completes... looks like tablets-dev is limited to two connections | 23:03 |
| milhouse | or is it my browser? | 23:03 |
| jkyro | hmm, 140 kb/s | 23:03 |
| milhouse | (firrefox) | 23:03 |
| milhouse | for whoever was asking earlier, the new firmwares have increased by a few hundred bytes each | 23:03 |
| maddler | restoring a 45MB backup... :) | 23:04 |
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| milhouse | i wonder when nokia/maemo will announce this firmware... great communication skills guys! ;) | 23:08 |
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| EruditeH1rmit | hopefully not for the next 10mins | 23:09 |
| milhouse | hehe | 23:09 |
| lcuk_3 | it might simply not be a full update. give them time to get all mirrors duplicated and setup and for the website guys to have a coffee | 23:09 |
| milhouse | maybe we should torrent this in anticpation... | 23:09 |
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| milhouse | seems like it's been known since this afternoon | 23:10 |
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| milhouse | known about | 23:10 |
| milhouse | or should i say, stumbled upon | 23:10 |
| lcuk_3 | but according to the version number its been fixed since a week after the last release | 23:10 |
| maddler | milhouse: indeed... they're acting dumb lately! | 23:11 |
| lcuk_3 | if there is no official confirmation how do ppl know just what it fixes | 23:11 |
| milhouse | lately? | 23:11 |
| milhouse | ;) | 23:11 |
| maddler | hehehehe... well... lately i was worse than before! :D | 23:11 |
| milhouse | i'd have thought the bug, which is supposedly fixed by this firmware, would be the obvious place to announce it... but nothing (so i did it for them) | 23:12 |
| milhouse | maybe it doesn't fix that bug of course... :) | 23:12 |
| maddler | indeed... | 23:12 |
| lcuk_3 | i agree milhouse, and there are nokia ppl posting on that bug report (at least from the language they use) | 23:12 |
| milhouse | lately as in from the time they went on holiday and it all went to shit... and hasn't really recovered. | 23:12 |
| maddler | but announcing it on maemo.org seems quite logical to me... | 23:12 |
| lcuk_3 | so i would have thought if this update actually fixed it then one might speak up | 23:12 |
| milhouse | maddler: you'd think... :) | 23:12 |
| maddler | milhouse: right | 23:13 |
| lcuk_3 | milhouse, where did you find out what it fixes? | 23:13 |
| milhouse | maddler: there's an "Announcement" section - anyone know what it's for? | 23:13 |
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| milhouse | lcuk: based on speculation - no hard facts on this project i'm afraid | 23:13 |
| lcuk_3 | then i say dont get the power ppls hopes up - it might not fix problem | 23:14 |
| milhouse | lcuk: we just make it up as we go alone in the absence of changelogs and other basic you'd normally expect on any semi-competently managed project | 23:14 |
| elb | there will be a changelog, I'm sure | 23:14 |
| milhouse | s/alone/along/ | 23:14 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: lcuk: we just make it up as we go along in the absence of changelogs and other basic you'd normally expect on any semi-competently managed project | 23:14 |
| elb | at least, I seem to remember one for 50-2 | 23:14 |
| pupnik_ | it feels to wear shoes sitting at a computer | 23:14 |
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| milhouse | elb: don't count it, never really had one before (and i mean a proper changelog cross referenced with bugzilla not a bulletpoint list of new features) | 23:14 |
| EruditeH1rmit | they haven't technically released it yet, give them some time | 23:15 |
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| maddler | elb: minimalistic... but at lest we got some inf... | 23:15 |
| lcuk_3 | i agree milhouse, and there was one for the last update - i personally think this is an accidental release to the linux servers. a full release involves Windows update client which hasnt seen the light of day yet | 23:15 |
| florian | re | 23:15 |
| maddler | lcuk_3: perhaps... | 23:15 |
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| lcuk_3 | and it seems silly to NOT release all the code created from 50-2 to 6-3 instead of just including 1 week of minor tweaks | 23:16 |
| konttori | lcuk_3: what bug report? | 23:16 |
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| lcuk_3 | the cargo cultist powerup ppl | 23:17 |
| milhouse | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2673 | 23:17 |
| hrw | ~curse i18n in maemo | 23:17 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, i18n in maemo ! | 23:17 |
| hrw | and morning all | 23:17 |
| hrw | ;) | 23:17 |
| elb | lcuk_3: in the absence of any information, that's a bold claim | 23:17 |
| elb | perhaps it fixes specific bugs for which a long vetting-out was warranted | 23:18 |
| lcuk_3 | its a bold claim to say it fixes stuff when its just a random binary at this moment | 23:18 |
| maddler | doh... getting 180MB of packages... :) | 23:18 |
| maddler | I need a local mirror for downloaded packages... | 23:18 |
| milhouse | apparently there are reports on ITT that it fixes the bug | 23:18 |
| hrw | milhouse: tx! | 23:18 |
| lcuk_3 | wsince there isnt ANYTHING from nokia about any other part of it, how do you know that it hasnt been hacked up there? | 23:18 |
| hrw | now it is time to take NOLO from flash image and flash it | 23:18 |
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| * lcuk_3 will eat crow if nokia updates site, but i'm not jumping until its official | 23:19 | |
| konttori | ah. that bug! | 23:19 |
| hrw | ~curse nokia for not releasing packaged software updates as packages but as flash images | 23:19 |
| elb | yeah, I'd definitely wait for an update from Nokia to go installing it | 23:19 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nokia for not releasing packaged software updates as packages but as flash images ! | 23:19 |
| konttori | hrw: perhaps you should attend fosdem next week | 23:20 |
| hrw | konttori: cannot - my daughter was born today | 23:20 |
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| EruditeH1rmit | maddler: so any changes that you notice? | 23:21 |
| konttori | oh! Congratulations! | 23:21 |
| hrw | ~die nokia, die | 23:21 |
| * infobot murders nokia, die, takes two shots to the head then crumples to the ground, lifeless... | 23:21 | |
| hrw | 130MB download for small file ;( | 23:21 |
| milhouse | hrw: congrats fella | 23:21 |
| hrw | thx milhouse | 23:21 |
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| elb | hrw: congratulations | 23:21 |
| milhouse | hrw: so we can expect to see you on here at silly times of the night for the next few months? :) | 23:22 |
| hrw | milhouse: rather not | 23:22 |
| milhouse | mothers job then? ;) | 23:22 |
| milhouse | new babies have a tendency to wake parents up at 3am... | 23:23 |
| elb | biology dictates that yeah, that's pretty much the mother's job | 23:23 |
| milhouse | chauvanist! ;) | 23:23 |
| elb | show me a man who produces milk, and I'll show you a man who can feed the newborn at 3AM | 23:24 |
| glass | men can produce milk afaik/iirc | 23:24 |
| EruditeH1rmit | maddler: where are the flashing instructions? | 23:24 |
| * pupnik_ debunks babies | 23:24 | |
| elb | glass: afayk, aayr, there exist documented cases of male mammals in *extreme situations* producing trace amounts of milk | 23:25 |
| elb | uyriiwihniwyata | 23:25 |
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| glass | then theres that man milk comic on teh internets i'm sure someone here has read | 23:26 |
| hrw | ~curse bug 2763 ;D | 23:26 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, bug 2763 ;D ! | 23:26 |
| * milhouse wishes I hadn't started this topic now... | 23:26 | |
| maddler | EruditeH1rmit: from liunux you ahve to sue flasher-3 util | 23:26 |
| hrw | I have maemo curse evening | 23:26 |
| lcuk_3 | if maemo were a man i would force it to produce milk with a rather hungry teathing child | 23:26 |
| hrw | maddler: no - use flasher-3, sue nokia | 23:27 |
| EruditeH1rmit | maddler: yeah but there was a page detailing exactly how to do it. I remember some weird stuff like holding down a home button or so | 23:27 |
| pH5 | hrw: and congratulation evening it seems. congrats! | 23:27 |
| hrw | pH5: thx man | 23:27 |
| pH5 | is anybody playing with the MBX? | 23:27 |
| maddler | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/using_the_linux_flasher_tool.html | 23:27 |
| hrw | pH5: I know one - was not Zabel his lastname? | 23:27 |
| hrw | ;D | 23:27 |
| milhouse | lactating computer fetish... I'm sure there's a web site out there that caters for it... | 23:27 |
| lcuk_3 | ph5, not at the moment i dont think - unless pupnik is lurking and hacking | 23:27 |
| pH5 | lol | 23:27 |
| pH5 | I'm just trying to turn it on, but either I don't do it right or it is not where I expect it to be on omap2420. | 23:28 |
| lcuk_3 | hardware register voodoo? | 23:28 |
| maddler | < hrw> maddler: no - use flasher-3, sue nokia <- what? | 23:28 |
| lcuk_3 | pH5, how much have you managed to decode from the other binary? | 23:30 |
| pH5 | sure feels like voodoo | 23:30 |
| pH5 | lcuk_3: most of the device initialization (that involves register setup) | 23:30 |
| pH5 | nearly nothing of the bridge to userspace and memory management | 23:30 |
| lcuk_3 | yer, its the same in most directions - thick forests of strange codes | 23:31 |
| hrw | maddler: "19 22:29 < maddler> EruditeH1rmit: from liunux you ahve to sue flasher-3 util" - just re-interpretting your talk | 23:31 |
| pH5 | the omap2430 sdk is very nice as it includes full dwarf debugging info. | 23:31 |
| lcuk_3 | lactating dwarfs? | 23:31 |
| pH5 | but still reversing is a lot of stupid work and prone to errors if not automated | 23:31 |
| lcuk_3 | :O manual | 23:32 |
| lcuk_3 | i thought it had been run through a dissassembler | 23:32 |
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| lcuk_3 | or are you on about back to c | 23:32 |
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| pH5 | exactly | 23:32 |
| pH5 | we have all the structure and function declarations | 23:33 |
| lcuk_3 | its just working out what each fn does | 23:33 |
| pH5 | but there are some things hardcoded for omap2430. for the clock/power setup I know that the registers at 0x49006000 on omap2430 are found at 0x48008000 on omap2420 | 23:34 |
| lcuk_3 | is this the full opengl interface or the actual core driver | 23:34 |
| pH5 | but what if the mbx's registers are not on 0x5000xxxx? | 23:34 |
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| pH5 | lcuk_3: everything is available. core + 2d lib + egl lib | 23:35 |
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| pH5 | but I'm just looking at the core kernel module for now. | 23:35 |
| lcuk_3 | we just dont have the chip docs | 23:35 |
| pH5 | 'just' | 23:35 |
| lcuk_3 | lol | 23:35 |
| lcuk_3 | i remember when computers practically came with circuit diagrams and full details | 23:36 |
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| * hrw -> sleep | 23:37 | |
| hrw | bye | 23:37 |
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| pupnik_ | the zenith Z-100 was greatness | 23:38 |
| pupnik_ | and as horrible as tandy was, they had usable sound and graphics when ibm could only bleep bleep and draw 3 colors | 23:39 |
| * lcuk_3 would love to draw with only 3 colors on 810 | 23:40 | |
| pupnik_ | dosbox: cga | 23:40 |
| * lcuk_3 would have the fastest damn refresh this side of town | 23:40 | |
| lcuk_3 | yer pupnik, but thats still sending all that deata over the lcd bus | 23:41 |
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| * pH5 wishes he had the omap2420 TRM or at least a table of the io memory regions | 23:42 | |
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| elb | I have to assume there's a reason Nokia hasn't bothered with accelerated rendering | 23:44 |
| elb | (possibly power requirements?) | 23:44 |
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| lcuk_3 | i think we had it clicked at the 2420 only having enough of an internal framebuffer for a 640*480 display | 23:44 |
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| pH5 | elb: I suspect licensing problems and what lcuk_3 just said. | 23:44 |
| elb | ahh, yeah, that would do it | 23:45 |
| lcuk_3 | licensing can't be an issue - nokia ARE partners and release 2420 devices FROM THE SAME PRODUCT LINE with the 3d enabled | 23:45 |
| milhouse | is it possible to tell if 51-3 has the same rootfs as 50-2? | 23:45 |
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| milhouse | the 3d issue on tablets is totally bogus... can't be a licencing issue | 23:45 |
| milhouse | the hardware is pretty ropey anyway but could still serve as a test bed for drivers in preparation for future hardware... | 23:46 |
| elb | though if the framebuffer is too small, that seems pretty likely to me | 23:46 |
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| milhouse | i guess they still don't have the resources to focus on anything but essential developement and 3d isn't essential right now | 23:47 |
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| pH5 | milhouse: you think it's just because of integration work that would be needed? | 23:47 |
| milhouse | not sure, but it would need one or more resources to work on driver development, and integration | 23:48 |
| milhouse | but right now there is no call for 3d in OS2008 so could be viewed as wasted effort | 23:49 |
| milhouse | in-house work may be on-going assuming there is 3d support in OS 2009 on a device with improved video hardware | 23:49 |
| elb | they seem to have the critical acceleration going, actually | 23:50 |
| elb | (like video scaling) | 23:50 |
| milhouse | that's just in the LCD driver isn't it? not really 3d | 23:50 |
| milhouse | LCD driver/hardware - one of the two... | 23:50 |
| milhouse | there's no use of the IVA either... but then I don't think it would do any good on the current hardware | 23:51 |
| elb | no, it's not (necessarily) in the 3d hardware | 23:51 |
| milhouse | lots of unused hardware in the OMAPs :( | 23:51 |
| elb | that's not :(, it's opportunity ;-) | 23:52 |
| milhouse | by the time it's reverse engineered it will be obsolete | 23:53 |
| milhouse | reverse engineered or understood enough to have an open source driver developed | 23:53 |
| milhouse | TI need to get their shit together and make their technical documentation freely available... it's got to be in their best interests hasn't it? | 23:54 |
| elb | chip makers live in a funny world | 23:54 |
| elb | I don't know | 23:54 |
| elb | I would think so, but the entire community seems to be pretty secretive about *some* things, and very open about others | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need the dinosaurs to die off | 23:55 |
| felipec | elb: for example? | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | then chipmakers will get smart. | 23:55 |
| milhouse | hopefully Intel MIDs will bring pressure on TI and their OMAP range to the point where they are left behind unless they open source their docs and drivers | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | TI would have a huge powerhouse on their hands if they opened up everything around OMAP. | 23:55 |
| elb | oh crap, it's BGA and European | 23:56 |
| elb | PREPARE FOR FAILURE | 23:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's in a chipmaker's best interest to give users to leverage their hardware as much as possible. | 23:56 |
| glass | who owns the powervr ip tho? | 23:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/users/users the power/ | 23:56 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: It's in a chipmaker's best interest to give users the power to leverage their hardware as much as possible. | 23:56 |
| milhouse | glass: PowerVR I think | 23:56 |
| glass | does ti own powervr now? | 23:56 |
| milhouse | glass: Another dinosaur | 23:56 |
| elb | felipec: for example, virtually all microcontrollers these days have a whole host of peripherals; typically the majority of these are described in free or very low-cost documentation in mind-smashing detail | 23:57 |
| milhouse | PowerVR is part of Imagination Technologies - not part of TI | 23:57 |
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| elb | felipec: but then there are things like "security units" taht do encryption, or "multimedia units" which have hardware codecs, etc. for which documentation is expensive and requires NDAs or licensing | 23:57 |
| milhouse | mobile devices will become popular as a result of the software that is developed for them... if knowledge is withheld, software won't be developed, sales will not take off... | 23:58 |
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| lcuk_3 | i would feel better knowing i could sell this device to all my friends if it had graphics good enough to not suck | 23:59 |
| milhouse | PowerVR is licensed to TI | 23:59 |
| milhouse | lcuk: good luck with that... I've tried and failed every time | 23:59 |
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