IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-02-10

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pH5	is the n810 really not capable of playing back 800x480 video hardware-wise, or are we just missing some armv6/dsp optimization in mplayer?	00:05
pH5	mplayer tells me "[nokia770] Nokia 770/N800 hardware was not detected" here, but it uses Xv. is it supposed to do that on n810?	00:06
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lcuk_2	if (!(check_nokia_device_type("Nokia N800") \|\| check_nokia_device_type("Nokia RX-44"))) {	00:10
lcuk_2	mp_msg(MSGT_VO, MSGL_INFO, "[nokia770] Nokia 770/N800/N810 hardware was not detected\n");	00:10
lcuk_2	i was just reading that earlier	00:10
lcuk_2	perhaps you are in a different zone than RX-44.. PLUS, it looks like you are using an old version...the one in cvs mentions the 810 in error report	00:11
lcuk_2	that actually looks wrong anyway	00:12
pH5	ok, I just got it from the feeds	00:14
* pH5 goes hunting for the source		00:15
lcuk_2	https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/vo_nokia770.c?root=mplayer&view=markup	00:15
lcuk_2	theres where i was reading, follow it backwards	00:15
pH5	lcuk_2: thanks	00:17
pupnik	fysa: yes i do	00:19
pupnik	lcuk_2: /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0	00:19
pupnik	pH5 can't be done	00:20
pH5	pupnik: bandwidth problems or missing computing power?	00:20
pupnik	both	00:21
pH5	ugh :)	00:21
fysa	where are you going to find 800480 video anyway?	00:21
pupnik	high quality 400x240 transcodes look very good to me	00:21
* pH5 waits for cortex a8 based devices to show up		00:22
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GeneralAntilles	fysa, 640x480 is common and close enough.	00:22
pupnik	i have no HD sources anyway	00:22
fysa	640x480 isn't as common as you may think. :)	00:22
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lcuk_2	pupnik, sorry might have misrepresented my request: inside the library, SDL_VideoInit() is called initialising the SDL_Videodevice jump table, which one does the n810 use?	00:22
pH5	400x240 is awfully blurred. even the hx4700 could do better.	00:22
fysa	mplayer.	00:23
lcuk_2	there is an x11, a directfb and others for specific device types	00:23
fysa	you can do way better than 400x240.	00:23
pupnik	x11 afaik, but i never mess with that in SDL programs	00:23
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fysa	624x352 XVID @ 972Kbps w/143Kbps MP3 48KHz audio - works perfectly in mplayer.	00:24
lcuk_2	i was just tracing my way through the call stack offline and seeing where it took me	00:24
lcuk_2	i was following the UpdateRects down and for x11 it appears to be a null function	00:24
lcuk_2	so i wondered if i had taken a wrong turning somewhere	00:25
pH5	fysa: ah, that sounds a bit better. mp3 decompression is done on the arm in mplayer, right?	00:25
fysa	here's another.	00:25
pupnik	wait, you actually want to understand sdl?	00:25
fysa	mythbusters.s06e01.hdtv.xvid-fqm.avi	00:25
fysa	standard run-of-the-mill internet release.	00:25
lcuk_2	no i want to go below it, and will follow the calls into x if i have to	00:25
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fysa	624x352 @ 29.97fps, 947Kbps, 128Kbps MP3 audio.	00:25
fysa	works perfectly.	00:25
fysa	no transcoding necessary	00:26
lcuk_2	just academic, im following the code and getting some understanding of it	00:26
pupnik	cool.	00:26
fysa	I only transcode from HD..	00:26
fysa	mind you, the only way you will see that performance is if you are playing from SD -- and not streaming.	00:26
pupnik	lcuk_2 i think mplayer is the sensei as far as fast screen updates	00:27
fysa	network overhead is too high	00:27
lcuk_2	yes i know, but i cant make a call and follow it, its not a clear path to something i can trace	00:27
lcuk_2	with sdl ive got acual code and know that i am taking actual rectangles of data and sending them to places and can see that part working because ive got things in front of me and i know what is meant to happen...	00:29
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RS_Asleep	Anyone seen any discussions about the BBC iplayer using OS2008 at all. I can't see to find anything on google (unless I'm being daft and not sticking the word keywords in)	00:30
lcuk_2	RS_Asleep, the flash one is tantalising isnt it.	00:30
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lcuk_2	so far thats the only one which they are doing for other systems, the actual windows app uses MS codecs if i remember rightly	00:31
fysa	pupnik: you can see a mouse pointer with synergy?	00:31
lcuk_2	they announced a mac version coming soon	00:31
RS_Asleep	lcuk_2: Yeah... It's so jerky though :( Having said that, it gets further than both the Wii and PS3 browsers.	00:31
elb	I've never used a flash video which played right on the n810	00:32
lcuk_2	it might be nice to see if some of the offline youtube scanners can grab bbc content	00:32
pupnik	fysa no	00:32
elb	although that was all the talk of the town, for a while	00:32
GeneralAntilles	Have you waited for YouTube videos to finish loading?	00:32
lcuk_2	the best playback of flash video i have seen was on something like break or ejb, ill find the link when missus comes home	00:32
RS_Asleep	Sadly I don't know much about flash :/	00:33
lcuk_2	GeneralAntilles, the youtube videos are annoying	00:33
GeneralAntilles	Er, yes, YouTube does suck.	00:33
GeneralAntilles	But they run fine if you let them load.	00:33
lcuk_2	they suck balls man	00:33
pupnik	well thanks to solmumaha i have seen a true 3D 640x480 commercial game run on a tablet now	00:33
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RS_Asleep	I don't think the BBC iPlayer buffers though.	00:33
fysa	what?	00:33
pupnik	warzone2100.. amazing	00:34
fysa	http://youtube.com/watch?v=UUwUDoC3vc4	00:34
lcuk_2	RS_Asleep, the bbc player is also highres flash video, its very nice	00:34
RS_Asleep	lcuk_2: I was about to ask if it was due to the video being very high quality	00:34
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fysa	pupnik: wha tis this?	00:35
fysa	pupnik: on the IT?	00:35
lcuk_2	since i am at a dead end for now iwthout my device i might have a look at what the iplayer is doing and see if i can snarf a stream	00:35
pupnik	GemRB? or the music?	00:35
fysa	haha :)	00:35
fysa	no, not that -- sorry. warzone.	00:35
fysa	warzone 2100 on the IT?	00:35
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elb	I l ike how the os2008 user site has about 4 pixels of horizontal scroll ;-)	00:35
lcuk_2	if i can get a stream then it should be feasible to do something	00:36
lcuk_2	i like how the internettablettalk forum has massive images by default so its slow as shit if you are using your internet tablet	00:36
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elb	yeah I use some 'mobile' theme	00:37
elb	which is ... not ideal	00:37
elb	but at least it's fast	00:37
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GeneralAntilles	Classic is plenty fast.	00:37
lcuk_2	i might do some proxy fixing for my tablet	00:37
lcuk_2	classic = the one with all images?	00:37
GeneralAntilles	Classic = the old one.	00:37
GeneralAntilles	and it works fine.	00:37
elb	I should try that	00:37
lcuk_2	default no cookies one?	00:38
GeneralAntilles	I dunno	00:38
GeneralAntilles	Use it and find out. :P	00:38
lcuk_2	i need an account to do that...	00:38
GeneralAntilles	...	00:38
RS_Asleep	The NASA TV stream is quite impressive mind on the n800 :D	00:38
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RS_Asleep	Something I said? :/	00:41
lcuk_2	not at all, i just went looking over the bbc iplayer	00:42
RS_Asleep	Ahh heh	00:42
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lcuk_2	you lot are gonna have to go bye bye, im gonna do some packet tracing :)	00:43
lcuk_2	back later	00:43
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pupnik	bah i gotta increase the maemo vmdk disk size or something	00:45
RS_Asleep	vmdk?	00:46
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GnutoN810	hi	00:48
pupnik	huhu	00:49
pupnik	the nokia internet tablets need more games porters. i am spread too thin	00:50
pupnik	i can help anyone who wants to get started	00:50
shackan	who has time to play games anyway	00:53
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pH5	I bet pupnik doesn't have time to play either :)	00:55
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pupnik	building/porting/tweaking is more fun than playing	01:09
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solmumaha	i like packaging	01:10
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Navi	I like sleeping.	01:32
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Navi	Aw, no libvorbis?	02:18
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Null-P	I just compiled "Crawl" (rogue-like) for n810. it runs but crashes/exits after a few seconds	02:18
Null-P	is GDB the best tool to debug this?	02:19
Null-P	(I'm not well versed in linux dev)	02:19
Null-P	sigh i miss visual studio	02:19
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ssvb	Null-P: execute "echo 3 > /proc/cpu/alignment" as root, and try to run crawl again	02:20
Null-P	interesting, ok	02:20
Navi	:P	02:21
ssvb	Null-P: if crawl has unaligned memory accesses, they will be fixed at runtime and reported in dmesg log	02:22
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Null-P	sh: /proc/cpu/alignment: No such file or directory	02:22
Null-P	(this is in a VMware shell, BTW)	02:22
Null-P	not on the actual device	02:22
Null-P	though, I could try that as well	02:22
ssvb	Null-P: what's VMware shell? are you not attempting to run crawl on N810?	02:24
Null-P	I'm running Linux in a Virtual Machine on Windows. Works quite well actually	02:25
Null-P	I built crawl there	02:25
Null-P	someone created a free/legal maemo environment for the free VMPlayer. it's pretty much plug & play	02:26
ssvb	in any case, the most interesting information for you is getting stack backtrace	02:26
Null-P	yeah, I need to catch it at the moment it crashes	02:26
ssvb	run "gdb crawl" or whatever the executable name is	02:26
Null-P	ok, I've run it under gdb. how can I catch the termination?	02:27
ssvb	then type "r" gdb command	02:27
Null-P	ok	02:27
ssvb	after the game crashes, type "bt"	02:27
Null-P	no dice. "	02:27
Null-P	"Program exited with code 0377"	02:28
Null-P	bt says "no stack"	02:28
Null-P	it's already dead & gone	02:28
ssvb	you will get a stack backtrace, but the game should be compiled with debug information	02:28
Null-P	I compiled debug. I'll do it agian to be sure.	02:28
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Null-P	yeah, same thing. maybe the makefile is screwed up? it does have a "debug:" section	02:30
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Null-P	breaking in shows no symbols loaded either. not a good sign	02:31
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ssvb	Null-P: if gdb reports that the program exited, it may have really exited for whatever reason and not crashed	02:37
Null-P	ah, that could make sens	02:38
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ssvb	Null-P: you can try to set breakpoint on 'exit' function ("b exit" gdb command) and get backtrace if/when this function is reached	02:42
Null-P	ahh, lemme try that	02:42
fysa	aha slick.	02:42
fysa	synergy + KDE = see the mouse ;)	02:42
Null-P	grr, i have no symbols loaded it seems. "function "exit" not defined"	02:43
Null-P	is it a .sym file in linux?	02:43
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lcuk	hmmmmmmm gps has let us down :( missus could not use it whilst out on trip and is unhappy	02:45
ssvb	Null-P: just make sure that "-g" option is passed to gcc when compiling and linking program, you may need to modify makefile	02:46
fysa	pupnik: you see that?	02:46
fysa	pupnik: using penguinbait's KDE deb and updated mouse cursor, this installs/runs/works with full mouse/keyboard - https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=284&release_id=700	02:46
fysa	so you can use your N800/N810 'dual head'	02:46
Null-P	$(MAKE) $(OTHER) -f $(MAKEFILE) debug EXTRA_FLAGS='-g -DFULLDEBUG -DWIZARD'	02:46
fysa	and then X11 forward firefox to it :)	02:47
pupnik	hail ssvb. have you perhaps someday a tiny sdl demo to illustrate fast rgb565 blitting?	02:48
pupnik	fysa: i will look thanks	02:49
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ssvb	pupnik: hi, rgb565 blitting will be slower than yuv420 blitting (16-bits per pixel vs. 12-bit per pixel)	02:53
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ssvb	pupnik: direct framebuffer access is faster, but it can cause "garbage on screen" problem when switching between applications	02:54
pupnik	yes but user will be forbidden from this	02:55
pupnik	ssvb, but it would be much work to convert SDL buffers to yuv420, no?	02:55
ssvb	pupnik: yes, it will	02:55
ssvb	pupnik: but there are special cases (grayscale, or 256 color paletted image) when converting to yuv420 is quite fast	02:56
ssvb	pupnik: AFAIK quake2 port uses YUV overlay, there is a thread on ITT	02:57
pupnik	ssvb: this is straight sdl @ 800x480... http://pupnik.de/newvox try it	02:57
pupnik	yes	02:57
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monarch	hello all	02:57
pupnik	i will look into it for the 256 color case	02:58
monarch	just got a new 4Gb card for my n810	02:58
monarch	is it supposed to click in or something	02:58
Null-P	yes	02:58
Null-P	you hae ot push it fairly far into the device	02:58
Null-P	1/3 inch maybe	02:58
\|tbb\|	anyone knows if and how its possible to save streams which are playing by vagalume player (on tablet)?	02:59
monarch	i was afraid of that, my big fingers aren't making it easy	03:00
ssvb	pupnik: looks nice, are you trying to make it faster?	03:00
monarch	ok, thanks got it	03:00
pupnik	ssvb yes!	03:01
pupnik	the pixel doubled version runs 65 fps but i like full 800x480	03:01
Null-P	which header contains strlen()? string.h?	03:02
pupnik	so i look into pipeline's tricks	03:02
pupnik	you can grep -ri /usr/include in scratchbox for whatever strings you need	03:03
Null-P	okay. thanks.	03:03
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ssvb	pupnik: have you tried to use oprofile by the way?	03:06
pupnik	not yet, :/ have you?	03:06
ssvb	pupnik: yes, it works great, and is quite easy to set up	03:07
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Null-P	holy crap, Crawl works!	03:09
pupnik	i got -fprofile-generate and -fprofile-use to work apparently,	03:09
pupnik	not sure about any benefits	03:09
Null-P	at least in x86 it does..	03:09
ssvb	Null-P: what was the problem?	03:10
Null-P	I"m not fully sure. I found a different make file - was using .lnx, used .bsd.	03:10
Null-P	didn't compile clean but just needed a few small bug fixes to make it compile	03:10
ssvb	pupnik: gcc shoul be able to generate better code with profile guided optimizations, at least theoretically	03:11
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ssvb	pupnik: anyway, information about installing oprofile can be found here: http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/oprofile/ (it provides very nice and detailed statistics, useful when deciding what needs to be optimized)	03:12
Null-P	things like "Strlen() not defined" and "NULL" having no value.	03:12
Null-P	we use PGO on Xbox and it helps a ton in many cases	03:13
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pupnik	ok ty	03:16
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ssvb	pupnik: ~20fps may be a realistic performance for 800x480 rgb565 mode, when using yuv420 color format, it can become 1/3 faster, reducing resolution also helps	03:22
Null-P	what's the recommended filesystem for a 4gb MiniSD? just plain old Fat32?	03:23
pupnik	ssvb yeah i'm kind of surprised that newvox gets ~ 22fps	03:23
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Null-P	later guys, thanks for the help	03:33
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ssvb	pupnik: do you have newvox sources with 800x480 resolution and FPS counter?	03:35
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Navi	Huh, I can't get sound to work off of the Maemo SDK	03:47
\|tbb\|	gnite all	03:49
Navi	night	03:49
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Navi	ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:864:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave	03:50
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Navi	Fixed it.	04:10
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leif__	anyone else seeing nothing but a login page at http://maemo.org/	04:23
leif__	?	04:23
leif__	nevermind, it works again now	04:23
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pupnik	Navi you have sound from maemo SDk? since when is that possible?	04:37
Navi	It's not possible?	04:38
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goat\|work	is there a specific channel for general usage questions about the n800, or can I ask in here?	04:42
GeneralAntilles	This is it.	04:42
Navi	GeneralAntilles, liar.	04:42
GeneralAntilles	No lies.	04:42
* Navi hugs GeneralAntilles		04:43
goat\|work	I'm updating a bunch of packages, is there an equivelent to apt-get upgrade	04:43
GeneralAntilles	This is the everything-maemo-ITOS-NIT IRC channel.	04:43
goat\|work	cause it seems that I have to update everything individually	04:43
GeneralAntilles	apt-get upgrade	04:43
GeneralAntilles	Do it in xterm.	04:43
Navi	Well, you could ^^	04:43
goat\|work	yeah? nice	04:43
goat\|work	thanks much	04:43
GeneralAntilles	Sure.	04:43
Navi	I can't keep up with GeneralAntilles's awesome fast typing speed	04:43
pupnik	i wouldn't apt-get upgrade unless i knew it were safe	04:44
goat\|work	so its not generally a good idea to upgrade the packages to latest?	04:44
pupnik	let's just say it has been a problem in the past. i don't know what your OS is, and what the safety level is.	04:45
Navi	breakage iz teh hax	04:45
goat\|work	i c, its OS2007 for now	04:45
GeneralAntilles	First step is to flash OS2008. :P	04:46
Navi	pupnik, Well, I built and ran an SDL app, sound works in there. I assume it's just using my system's alsa :P	04:47
goat\|work	heh, ok... thanks again folks	04:47
pupnik	cool. what SDK are you running Navi? and what sdl app?	04:47
Navi	Maemo SDK, the regular one. Blobwars	04:47
pupnik	gregale, bora or chinnok? vmware image or native install?	04:48
Navi	chinook	04:48
Navi	native install	04:48
pupnik	scratchbox i386 or arm?	04:48
Navi	i386	04:48
pupnik	ok thanks	04:49
* Navi didn't expect that many questions O_o		04:49
pupnik	i'd like to try it here, ty	04:49
Navi	Ah :D	04:49
goat\|work	sudo password by default?	04:49
Navi	I don't think you need it	04:50
goat\|work	apt-get upgrade requires root level	04:50
goat\|work	and its asking for a sudo password	04:50
goat\|work	<blank> didn't work	04:50
GeneralAntilles	rootme	04:50
goat\|work	oh, thats a package right?	04:51
elb	that's the default root password	04:51
goat\|work	ohh, hahah	04:51
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Navi	maemo doesn't have a windows-native sdk?	04:53
GeneralAntilles	Ha	04:55
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fysa	X11 forwarding Firefox via wifi LAN is surprisingly resposnive.	04:58
fysa	responsive.	04:58
fysa	faster than the built-in browser anyway..	04:58
Navi	X11 forwarding is great.	04:59
GeneralAntilles	I was building it from fink the other day to try it out.	04:59
pupnik	do you do that over ssh?	04:59
GeneralAntilles	Too many deps. :<	04:59
Navi	pupnik, yes	04:59
Navi	Beats the other solutions	05:00
fysa	I have an icon on my N800 KDE desktop called "Firefox"	05:00
fysa	that executes:	05:01
fysa	killall synergyc;synergyc --name banana 192.168.1.20;ssh -X jfisher@192.168.1.11 firefox	05:01
Navi	:)	05:01
fysa	I'd like to run my IM/IRC client only off of the N800	05:01
fysa	and gmail/greader	05:01
Navi	The only place I run my IM/IRC client is at home	05:02
fysa	and now I get to use grabanddrag extension for kinetic scrolling..	05:02
fysa	I use znc + bitlbee to get multi-client-single-session IRC+IM (usually x-chat) on all of my machines..	05:03
fysa	so I can start a conversation somewhere and continue it elsewhere without the other party knowing..	05:03
Navi	weechat+bitlbee and ssh around	05:03
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fysa	I used to use weechat..	05:03
fysa	until I found znc :)	05:03
fysa	then I can use weechat and/or any local (i.e., usable with touch) client	05:04
Navi	screen+weechat+bitlbee	05:04
elb	yeah, I use finch+screen	05:04
fysa	right. which is lovely..	05:04
fysa	but..	05:04
elb	but the n810 terminal is kind of poop for that	05:04
fysa	if you screen+weechat with multi machines	05:04
fysa	you are stuck with a weechat of a certain size..	05:04
fysa	that has to be appropriate for all devices	05:04
Navi	at the same time?	05:04
elb	since it doesn't have any mode (which I can find) that's 80x24/25	05:04
Navi	I detach when I'm not around >_>	05:04
fysa	you can weechat+znc+bitlbee and use one weechat per device	05:04
fysa	and then each gets a proper-fitting client	05:05
fysa	I have a weechat running on the server..	05:05
fysa	but I don't want to bother with detaching	05:05
fysa	and if I forget, I don't want to have to kill (or type) anything	05:06
fysa	once setup, this 'just works'	05:06
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Navi	:P	05:06
fysa	znc stores buffers for you also, so when a new client connects to the same session, you get a history--	05:06
fysa	your way is fine for what you do. it wasn't for me.	05:06
Navi	mmk. I'm stuck in my ways, I prefer to screen -rdA :)	05:07
fysa	I have IRC/IM on the HTPC in the living room, all machines here connected via synergy and the N800 and the laptop that I sometimes carry around..	05:07
elb	screen -x is the only way to roll	05:07
fysa	see, if I had an N810 it may be different	05:07
Navi	-x is for l00zerz	05:07
Navi	fysa, how so?	05:07
fysa	because then xterm wouldn't be like pulling teeth.	05:08
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elb	God created terminals at 80x24, so resizing is irrelevant	05:08
fysa	http://en.znc.in/wiki/index.php/ZNC	05:08
Navi	I have a bluetooth keyboard I got from a friend for dirt cheap, good stuff.	05:08
Navi	Yeah, I already looked it up	05:08
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elb	xterm is pulling teeth on the 810, too	05:09
fysa	OK.	05:09
elb	there are some ... important ... keys which aren't on the keyboard	05:09
pupnik	thanks Navi i wanted to get into screen again - will remember rdA	05:09
elb	like, for example, \|	05:09
Navi	pupnik, :D	05:09
pupnik	for a few years i feel like any time i read something, something else gets forgotten	05:10
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Navi	elb, what keyboard, a normal one?	05:12
Navi	or the poke keyboard?	05:12
elb	the n810 slide-out keyboard	05:13
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Navi	mmm	05:14
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K-Fox	./	05:20
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Navi	./	05:24
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Tama^2	Hi	05:40
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Navi	Hi	05:41
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goat\|work	me again >.< my n800 /os2007 doesn't seem to turn on anymore after powering it on (battery is charged) is there a reset of some sort?	05:53
goat\|work	nvm, i guess a little time off fixed it	05:55
Tama^2	tried removing the battery for a while?	05:55
leif__	goat\|work, see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2673	05:56
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Tama^2	I wish I could see more dubug info in dmesg about mmc	05:58
goat\|work	thanks leif__	05:59
leif__	Tama^2, http://intr.overt.org/2.2008.50-mmc-kernel/	05:59
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Tama^2	I know about that one leif but I am trying to put together reliable information to post a bug and I am afraid that using a custom kernel will invalidate my point	06:01
Tama^2	in other words I fear the official devs will consider my information less reliable because I was not running the stock kernel	06:02
Tama^2	I am trying to nail down a problem with excessive mmc power consumption when idle	06:02
leif__	yeah it would be useful to build the kernel with just the debug patch, and not the highspeed	06:03
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Ant23il	hello everyone	07:22
johnx	hi	07:22
Ant23il	is this room where i can possibly get some help with my new n810?	07:23
johnx	sure, ask away :)	07:23
Ant23il	awesome. well first off youtube videos wont come up. says i need a newer version of flash	07:23
K-Fox	finally... for a week it did succeed to connect networking n800 <--> blackjack phone	07:24
K-Fox	wow	07:24
johnx	Ant23il, hmm...I haven't looked at youtube lately	07:24
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Ant23il	ahh ok. well i have one other question. is it possible to pull files from a shared windows drive with this device?	07:26
johnx	yup...right now it only works if the share isn't password protected though	07:26
johnx	the shares should show up in file manager	07:26
Ant23il	harsh. not exactly safe heh	07:27
johnx	I guess it depends on who you let on your network	07:27
Ant23il	yea. more like trying to keep the wife out :)	07:27
Ant23il	well ty for your help. you gents have a nice night. thanks johnx	07:28
johnx	sure	07:28
johnx	let me see if I can find something about flash quick	07:28
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johnx	or...nevermind	07:29
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rm_you\|Ikkicon	johnx: lol?	07:52
johnx	hmm?	07:52
rm_you\|Ikkicon	lol	07:52
rm_you\|Ikkicon	just tell him to use UKTube from the UKMP project for youtube :P	07:53
johnx	does that still work?	07:53
rm_you\|Ikkicon	i think so	07:53
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johnx	I thought that it got broken by youtube changing their URLs	07:53
johnx	but I really wouldn't know...	07:53
rm_you\|Ikkicon	i think he fixed it?	07:53
rm_you\|Ikkicon	lemmie check	07:53
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rm_you\|Ikkicon	wwell, A) the videos work on the youtube page for me	07:56
rm_you\|Ikkicon	tho laggy as usual	07:56
johnx	I was going to help him but he logged off after I told him to hang on for a second	07:56
rm_you\|Ikkicon	yeah... saw	07:56
johnx	so...meh	07:56
johnx	anyways, booted into debian on the N800	07:57
johnx	tracking down sound issues	07:57
rm_you\|Ikkicon	looks like you may be right though... uktube stuck on initializing download	07:57
rm_you\|Ikkicon	johnx: ah, no sound yet? or just buggy	07:57
johnx	very close to sound	07:57
rm_you\|Ikkicon	?	07:57
johnx	alsamixer works, but device files for pcm aren't created	07:57
rm_you\|Ikkicon	:(	07:58
johnx	should be easy	07:58
johnx	I got alsamixer working in about 20 minutes once I actually got around to it	07:58
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jga23	is there any way to tell in python if I'm on maemo or linux? os.name is the same for both	08:13
johnx	I think vagalume must do it somehow	08:17
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elb	you could check for a non-empty OSSO_VERSION	08:20
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Sargun	osso-xterm	08:28
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b2therizzo	hello all	08:31
Ant-X3	hello	08:32
johnx	hi	08:32
Ant-X3	hi again john	08:32
Ant-X3	is there something special im supposed to do to access a shared folder in windows?	08:34
Ant-X3	i can see the pc, but nothing inside the folder =/	08:34
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johnx	no idea :/	08:35
johnx	it should "just work"	08:35
Ant-X3	blarg.	08:36
t_s_o	hmm, could be some access right related issue. as in, is the shared folder passord protected or something? as i dont think the file manager has any login dialog	08:36
Ant-X3	i removed all users from the shared permissions and added back access for everyone	08:38
t_s_o	firewall open?	08:39
johnx	t_s_o, it finds his computer though	08:40
t_s_o	indeed, silly question. sorry	08:40
johnx	np :)	08:40
Ant-X3	yeppers turned the wall off for this =)	08:40
* johnx remains blissfully ignorant when it comes to troubleshooting file sharing on windows		08:41
Ant-X3	its ok. just assume i know nothing. im very new to linux.	08:41
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dragorn	it "just works" with my samba shares	08:42
dragorn	don't think i have any windows shares to test	08:42
t_s_o	seems to work ok here to, winxp at the moment	08:43
zoran	so, some kind of samba software should be added to the tablet	08:43
dragorn	samba is already on the tablet	08:43
t_s_o	if one use 08, there should be no need	08:43
dragorn	built into the file app	08:43
Ant-X3	yes this is 08. new 810. just got it yesterday	08:44
zoran	maybe the prob is on teh server side?	08:44
t_s_o	zoran: i would not be surprised	08:44
t_s_o	Ant-X3: xp or vista on the pc?	08:44
Ant-X3	xp pro	08:44
johnx	reboot everything you can find, including your fridge, dishwasher and your car	08:45
t_s_o	:P	08:45
zoran	I'm not win savvy, but some permissions have to be set, even on win	08:45
Ant-X3	lol i can give that a shot.	08:45
zoran	not with hammer	08:45
Ant-X3	im fairly sure i have the permissons right	08:45
t_s_o	after i opened up the firewall and started up sharing it works ok here, in simple mode that is...	08:46
zoran	Ant-X3, how do you connected those computers?	08:46
Ant-X3	everything is through lan	08:46
zoran	n810 is via wifi?	08:47
Ant-X3	yes	08:47
zoran	router?	08:47
Ant-X3	also my other two laptops	08:47
Ant-X3	yes router	08:47
zoran	do you have ip address on n810?	08:47
zoran	ifconfig	08:47
Ant-X3	if or ip	08:48
zoran	ip is on win, as I recall	08:48
zoran	or simply clear all the cash on n810	08:49
dragorn	you may need to allow anonymous browsing to get a list of shares	08:49
dragorn	(on the windows side)	08:49
Ant-X3	ok how do i do that? sorry im a newb	08:49
Ant-X3	the clear cache	08:50
zoran	how do you want to find the share files, browser?	08:50
Ant-X3	i was trying to use file manager	08:51
Ant-X3	everytime i tried to use the browser it would put http:// in front of the network ip i typed in	08:51
zoran	what is should be? smb?	08:52
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dragorn	zoran: os2008 file manager has smb browsing built in, that's what he's using.	08:53
zoran	k	08:53
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dragorn	if it has any sort of a cache, i'd expect it to be cleared when you close file manager. If it isn't, i don't know of any way to clear it.	08:54
Ant-X3	ok	08:54
zoran	in bsd world, I found samba-nmblookup to make a look at that share	08:54
dragorn	zoran: samba cli tools aren't in 2008	08:54
zoran	heh	08:55
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zoran	what if all units are rebooted, turned off and then file server put to life first	08:56
Ant-X3	ill give that a shot. i really appreciate the help guys. brb	08:57
zoran	btw, what file formats are on the share?	08:57
dragorn	if it's seeing the server in the shares list and can't browse the contents then it's an issue on windows with how it exports the shared directories to an anonymous browser.	08:57
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dragorn	zoran: smb shares are smb/cifs format, the underlying filesystem is irrelevant, it's a meta-layer	08:57
zoran	dragorn, you think it needs software indentification?	08:57
zoran	like: "hey, I'm your win friend, let me in!"	08:58
dragorn	I don't know what you mean by "software authentication". Smb = Windows file sharing, and it has support for authentication and share announcement control, yes.	08:58
zoran	have to google for it now, must to say	08:59
zoran	another complaint on ITT	09:01
zoran	no files/folders as error message	09:01
zoran	mount -t cifs //server/directoryes -o user=user,password=pass ?	09:03
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dragorn	zoran: he's not using a cli samba. It's built into the file manager.	09:04
zoran	eh, on the same ITT it says that file manages does not supportauthentication for cifs	09:04
zoran	*manager	09:04
dragorn	hence, he needs to check his anonymous browsing permissions on windows :P	09:04
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zoran	dragorn, is it possible to have 2 Ant user connections at the same time?	09:06
dragorn	i don't know what an ant user is	09:06
Proteous	very very small 8 legged user	09:06
zoran	Ant-X3, from laptop and n810	09:06
Ant-X3	=/ still picks up the computer. no files though	09:07
zoran	Ant-X3, disconnect laptops from the share to see if it works then	09:07
dragorn	yes it's perfectly possible to have multiple users browsing the same share	09:07
zoran	with the same name?	09:07
dragorn	if you see the share and don't see files, it's a permissions issue on the share.	09:07
dragorn	Yes, of course.	09:08
Ant-X3	im only on through the 810. only things on are the server and the 810 atm	09:08
Proteous	not to be confused with an aunt user, which is like a luser but is your fathers sister	09:08
dragorn	Proteous: clever.	09:08
Proteous	:P	09:08
zoran	ITT, maybe wrongly, says that only multimedia files could be shared that way. I doubt	09:09
dragorn	yup that's wrong	09:09
zoran	if fm has acces to smb/cifs, some libs are around. maybe they could be used the other way	09:10
zoran	something like sshfs	09:11
johnx	zoran, there's not reason you couldn't compile up smbnetfs for fuse	09:11
Ant-X3	i did see a guide on maemo.org on how to install cifs and mount the share in xterm	09:11
zoran	patch to fuse	09:11
zoran	libs are there, since you user it	09:12
zoran	*use	09:12
dragorn	or install full samba. But none of that will play terribly nice with filemanager. Knock yourself out in xterm tho.	09:12
zoran	so, just front end is needed	09:12
zoran	Ant-X3, what is on that server?	09:12
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dragorn	depending how smb is implemented, maybe. Maybe not.	09:12
Ant-X3	what exactly are you needing to know?	09:13
zoran	what are file types on it?	09:14
dragorn	why do you think that has anything to do with his problem?	09:14
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Ant-X3	mostly .avi and mp3. just media	09:14
dragorn	never mind. Have fun.	09:14
zoran	shoot in blank	09:14
johnx	Ant-X3, if you keep having problems with this a UPnP server for media files could be an alternate solution	09:15
zoran	k, maybe some logs could be found on win?	09:15
Ant-X3	upnp. i havent set that up before, but im game for anything that will work	09:15
zoran	u c shared files from laptops?	09:16
Ant-X3	yup	09:17
Ant-X3	the laptops could access the share when it was passcoded	09:21
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zoran	ITT sais repeatedly that passworded shares are a no go	09:22
zoran	sadly	09:22
johnx	zoran, he knows that...he already changed that	09:22
Ant-X3	maybe when i removed them and added the "everyone" group i screwed something up	09:22
Ant-X3	yea i removed pw	09:23
johnx	Ant-X3, is there another way to do that, like "allow anonymous" or something?	09:23
zoran	maybe "guest"	09:25
Ant-X3	i moved to the security function. i do see an option for "list folder contents"	09:26
zoran	xp or n810?	09:27
Ant-X3	xp	09:27
Ant-X3	stupid explorer crapped out >.< going to try again	09:28
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zoran	people let user option empty and set uid as user,guest	09:28
zoran	if possible on filemanager	09:29
zoran	smbfs and smbclient on maemo-hackers site	09:32
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zoran	ah, os2006, sorry	09:33
Ant-X3	ahh well. ill have to play with this tomorrow. thanks for the help everyone.	09:34
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zoran	hey, found a link to something insteresting!	09:34
zoran	cifs.ko from fanoush module archive	09:35
zoran	than smbfs package from cid armel repo	09:35
zoran	poster is gole on ITT, he said it worked for him	09:36
zoran	he see files in filemanager	09:36
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zoran	maybe the solution is this, if any1 interesting to read few line?	09:41
zoran	take fanoush cifs.ko module and load it	09:41
zoran	than mount from command like:	09:41
johnx	zoran, he left...	09:42
zoran	logs are around for him to read	09:42
zoran	k	09:42
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holla44	where do I report a bug (feature request) for os2008 chat-ui?	09:47
johnx	bugs.maemo.org	09:48
holla44	thanks	09:48
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[AD]Turbo	hi all	11:21
braddbr	hi	11:27
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pupnik	i'd like to profile fmopl some time	12:16
pupnik	and the rest of the sb code	12:16
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juke	hi	13:33
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K-Fox	what is application to play movie and mp3 together on n800 ?	13:38
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michele_	ohh nice new cover selector in canola	13:57
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K-Fox	cannola?	13:58
K-Fox	michele : what is application to play movie and mp3 together on n800 ?	13:58
K-Fox	on play list	13:59
michele_	http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/	13:59
K-Fox	canolar is possible?	14:00
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michele_	K-Fox: look at the site and see if it's what you need	14:01
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lardman	morning all	14:05
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K-Fox	istalling canola 2 beta	14:07
michele_	can I access the internet from inside scratchbox?	14:08
lardman	yes	14:08
lardman	you should be able to anyway ;)	14:08
michele_	should it just work? because, you know, it doesn't :)	14:09
lardman	it should do yes, is it a dns problem?	14:10
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michele_	yes, that was the problem, thank you lardman	14:11
lardman	np	14:11
michele_	oh great... I wanted to debug a segfaul in modest, but in scratchbox it works fine :/	14:14
michele_	and I can't get it to dump core on the device	14:14
lardman	gdb on device?	14:15
michele_	eh... I was trying to avoid it :)	14:16
lardman	oh well	14:17
djcb	michele_: if you find modest crashes, please file a bug	14:18
djcb	with as much detail as you can get about servers etc.	14:18
djcb	esp. test accounts are helpful, so we can reproduce	14:18
michele_	hey djcb	14:19
michele_	I don't think I can provide a test account, as it's my company mail server	14:19
michele_	it's a kerio mail server	14:19
djcb	ok.... well, if we can reproduce it, it's probably easy to fix	14:20
djcb	if not	14:20
djcb	it gets a bit harder	14:20
michele_	and I suspect it's due to its funky imap layout	14:20
michele_	as I had to mess with prefixes in thunderbird too	14:20
djcb	well, modest shouldn't crash	14:21
jku	michele_, to get core dumps I think /media/mmcX/core-dumps/ needs to exist	14:21
michele_	jku: really? let's try	14:21
jku	also, you might want to try sp-rich-core: http://maemo.org/development/tools/	14:22
jku	I have yet to try it, but it looks useful	14:22
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michele_	oh yes	14:30
michele_	jku: you was right, the directory needs to be there	14:30
lardman	that's a useful thing to know, thanks	14:32
michele_	uhm I wonder if I can use a core dump from the device to get a backtrace in scratchbox...	14:36
K-Fox	canola2 beta do not play automatically a next movie on movie part	14:36
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michele_	lardman: about core dumps... http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_debugging_guide.html#debugcorefilesindevice	15:11
lardman	ah, I never bothered to read the latest one; thanks :)	15:19
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melmoth	I need libgdbm-dev to compile maemomapper from svn.Any idea where to get it from ?	16:11
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* Jaffa sighs annoyedly at ITT		16:24
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, haha. I'm ready (again) to just torch the place.	16:35
lardman	Google is running slowly again	16:35
lcuk_2	hmmm	16:40
lcuk	hmmm	16:40
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* lcuk thought xchat was single instance		16:41
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lcuk	10 kBytes transfered, at 0 Bytes/s	16:44
* lcuk is a time traveller		16:44
johnx	let's see, carry the one, divide by zero and (segmentation fault)	16:44
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lcuk	its in windows so its expected	16:45
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* lcuk puts 10p in the SVN meter and hopes it gets faster		16:47
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lardman	anyone got a link for a site about starting XWindows programming? I'd like to work out what to link my test program against	16:54
zuh	lardman: "XWindows"?-)	16:54
lardman	X	16:55
lardman	Xfree, Xorg, X11, all that sort of stuff :)	16:55
braddbr	what to link against? you mean -lX11	16:55
braddbr	'?	16:55
lardman	yes, that's exactly it, do I only need to link against libX11?	16:55
lardman	for basic X functions that is	16:56
* michele_ really wants aptitude on device		16:56
braddbr	if its just a simple xlib app.. if you use threads(lotsa probs wit X and threads) -lpthread	16:56
* lcuk is glad his device doesnt have attitude		16:56
braddbr	yeah, just -lX11 if you're basically creating windows, drawing, etc	16:56
lardman	yep, very simple, creates a window then allows dsp to overwrite that area, then destroys window	16:56
braddbr	yeah, -lX11 should do it then	16:57
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, it doesn't? :P	16:57
lcuk	lard, any chance i could borrow that test (not interested in the dsp section)	16:57
lcuk	no, mine doesnt	16:57
lardman	lcuk: sure, you can take a look at it, not sure it will work mind you ;)	16:58
lcuk	thats ok, im just looking through the omapfb stuff at the mo and hitting a few dead ends, if i go through x at least i can follow the path	16:58
lardman	best bet is probably to follow svb's code from mplayer, that's what I've copied basically	16:59
lcuk	(it doesnt help that ive got youngest hovering around)	16:59
melmoth	GRumble. where can i find libgpsmgr-dev ?	16:59
lardman	file:///home/simon/development/DSP/test-framebuffer-scaler-colorspace-770/vo_nokia770.c.html	16:59
dragorn	melmoth: it's in the repos in the sdk for me	16:59
* melmoth note it s a bit of a pain to find devel package on maemo		16:59
lardman	oops, not a proper link any more	16:59
lcuk	ive just been checking out the svn for mplayer but its failed about 4 times, and theres not much more i can do reading the websvn	16:59
braddbr	i can send my /x11/smg_x11.[cpp/h] file if you guys want it.. its c++, basically has window opening, surface getting stuff in it (and window breating / colormap stuff too)	16:59
melmoth	dragorn: hmmm, like..localy ?	17:00
braddbr	*creating	17:00
lardman	braddbr: would be interesting	17:00
dragorn	melmoth: no, but it was in one of the default repos in the sdk	17:00
lardman	https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/vo_nokia770.c?root=mplayer&view=markup	17:00
braddbr	k, gimme a sec	17:00
melmoth	dragorn: apt-cache dont find it anymore here (chinook)	17:00
lcuk	braddbr, that sounds like a nice base	17:00
dragorn	melmoth: did for me, dunno what to tell you. I said "why the eff wasn't this in here already" and installed it, no real issues	17:01
jku	melmoth it's in the nokia binaries	17:01
lcuk	lard, ive been browsing that since yesterday i got device back and was wanting to get something together but damned tortoiseSVN keeps failing	17:01
jku	files should be in ~/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_4.0/	17:02
jku	and sources.list should find them there	17:02
lardman	lcuk: here's my first crack http://pastebin.ca/898687	17:02
melmoth	ahhh, i think i....rmed this directory :)	17:02
melmoth	Any idea how to get it back easily ?	17:02
dragorn	that might do it :P	17:02
jku	melmoth, that's a mistake if you want to do anything with location on chinook...	17:03
melmoth	i just realised now.	17:03
dragorn	apt-cache seems annoyingly reticent to tell you what repo something comes from	17:03
melmoth	Will see if i got a backup copy	17:03
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melmoth	otherwise i ll just... reinstall (or dont try to play with maemomapper :) )	17:03
jku	check the SDK install instructions, it should be easy	17:03
lcuk	lardman, thanks :) i notice you gave up ont he omapfb.h ;)	17:05
lcuk	it took a bit of searching to get it included in mine	17:05
lardman	lcuk: not sure I need it	17:05
lcuk	its got the direct refresh LCD call inside it	17:05
lardman	lcuk: I removed everything I didn't think I needed	17:05
lardman	lcuk: I'm doing that from the DSP	17:05
braddbr	anyone have a ftp site i can post the x11 stuff to?	17:06
lcuk	then its all good :)	17:06
lardman	braddbr: is it a single file?	17:06
lardman	braddbr: pastebin?	17:06
braddbr	well its the .h and the .cpp	17:06
braddbr	gimme a minute	17:06
* lcuk gives braddbr as long as he needs :)		17:07
* lcuk configures lardman.c		17:07
lardman	lcuk: have to head out, let me know if it works or not (probably not :) ), I'll test it when I get back	17:08
lardman	braddbr: I'll grab your files when I get back too	17:08
braddbr	ok	17:08
lardman	bye	17:08
lcuk	alright, ill be playing around with it today	17:09
lcuk	thanks lard, cya later	17:09
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melmoth	Ok, i think i got it http://repository.maemo.org/stable/chinook/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_4.0.sh :)	17:10
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lcuk	braddbr, ive gotta make some dinner, but if you manage to get something up just let us know i will look in a few mins	17:14
braddbr	i will	17:14
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lcuk_dinner	:) thx	17:14
lcuk_dinner	lardman\|away, your example compiles and goes to black base screen after removing your /dev/dsptask/fbtest section. i added -lX11 to the library list to get it resolving :)	17:28
braddbr	well my code is too big to paste to pastbin but i made you's a simple window-opening pastebin http://pastebin.com/m29909750	17:31
braddbr	my X stuff does work on my nokia, so let me know if you need more code snippets and i will be glad to paste	17:32
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braddbr	(i havent learned how to integrate with hildon / gtk yet so don't ask me that :) )	17:37
K-Fox	is it possible to install Opera Mini on n800?	17:40
lcuk_dinner	thankx braddbr i have downloaded and will look once i stop being bugged by all family for bits of me	17:41
braddbr	ok :)	17:41
* lcuk_dinner gives away 810		17:41
* lcuk_dinner gives away desktop		17:41
* lcuk_dinner sulks		17:41
pupnik	i know devs who could do great things with a n800 n810	17:42
braddbr	my first app is coming along.. its a simple grid-like editor to make little images :)	17:42
K-Fox	opera mini is reduced greatly the data traffic	17:42
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braddbr	what are you trying to do lcuk_dinner ?	17:44
johnx	K-Fox, no. opera mini only works on the version of java for mobile phones (JavaME?) as far as I understand	17:45
jeff1f	mowser.com will shrink web sites, but doesn't make them look as nice as opera mini	17:47
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lcuk_dinner	braddbr, just get the feel for x and the omapfb on 810. just starting	17:58
pupnik	braddbr: those are fun to make iconic gfx with - esp back in the low-color era	17:58
braddbr	yeah.. i had a headache learning about colormaps under X11.. pretty simple now tho	17:59
braddbr	what is omapfb, direct access to screen pixel-map?	17:59
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K-Fox	johnx: ok~~~	18:03
Hallin	I read something about native GCC in Maemon, anyone got any details?	18:08
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pupnik	native's free-pee pees and mammaries?	18:13
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braddbr	Hallin, you maean a gcc compiler for maemo arm?	18:14
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braddbr_	sorry, d/c	18:22
Hallin	braddbr_: Yes, correct.	18:23
Hallin	http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2008/02/08/native-gcc-on-the-n810/	18:23
Jaffa	Hallin: it's just repository.maemo.org, i.e. SDK packages on the device itself	18:23
Hallin	Aha, I see.	18:26
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pupnik	You are advised to learn how to use scratchbox to develop for the tablets.	18:29
Hallin	Already using scratchbox, gcc on the device itself could be fun, though.	18:30
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Zmiko	hey, is the keyboard on the n810 worth the extra price over the n800	18:42
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dragorn	imho, yes. Or more accurately, not having the onscreen KB using up half the screen is.	18:42
Zmiko	ya, I agree it's better, but I'm trying to decide if it's $200 better	18:42
dragorn	also gps, though the gps is kind of crap	18:43
dragorn	That I can't tell you :P	18:43
dragorn	For me, it's worlds better than the 800	18:43
Zmiko	you've had both?	18:43
dragorn	I've had all three	18:43
Zmiko	i see	18:44
dragorn	I never liked the design of the 800. the 810 still has some quirks, but it's much more useful to me than the 800 ever was	18:44
GeneralAntilles	My personal recommendation is to save the cash and get the N800.	18:44
dragorn	others have other opinions. You could also get a small BT keyboard, and use that, so long as you don't need to type any passwords	18:44
GeneralAntilles	But I can't say that I've used the N810 for more than 10 minutes.	18:44
dragorn	passwords over BT = bad :P	18:44
Zmiko	ya	18:45
GeneralAntilles	The fullscreen thumbboard on the N800 works very nicely for me.	18:45
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lardman	braddbr: thanks	18:45
GeneralAntilles	Also to consider: Dual SDHC versus single MiniSD	18:45
Zmiko	thanks guys	18:45
Zmiko	there's a lot to consider	18:45
dragorn	if you plan to use it for just dicking around in the browser and playing a movie, 800 is fne	18:46
dragorn	if you want to use it to write anything or use the terminal for much, you're probably going to be unhappy with the onscreen kb	18:46
Zmiko	i'm planning on it replacing my palm tx	18:46
lardman	hear hear	18:46
dragorn	having not used a palm since the mid-90s, I don't know what that means :)	18:46
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Zmiko	browsing the web, calendar, to do	18:47
Zmiko	's, contacts	18:47
Zmiko	i know the browser's tons better	18:47
Zmiko	and there's the garnet vm so I can run all of my palm apps	18:48
dragorn	The browser is good. I haven't found anything I cared for for any of the others	18:48
dragorn	yeah i guess	18:48
Zmiko	anyone used the garnet vm?	18:48
jeff1f	I wouldn't use it as a palm replacement, though	18:48
BTobotras	What do you guys use for notes? quicknote looks buggy	18:49
Zmiko	i also ordered a nokia n95 8gb	18:49
jeff1f	Oh, good, use the n95 for your pim and calander stuff	18:49
Zmiko	that's what I was thinking	18:49
Zmiko	and tablet for web and some music	18:50
lardman	braddbr_: what is the variable dis in your code?	18:50
braddbr_	Display *dis; // its the connection to the X server	18:51
lardman	so it should be d?	18:51
lardman	Display *d = XOpenDisplay(0);	18:51
braddbr_	Oh, yeah thats fine	18:51
lardman	I thought so, just checking	18:51
lardman	and if I don't actually want any XWindow events, I suppose I should still wait for the Exposure event	18:52
joshin	Dumb 770 question, is the Omap1 in it able to take advantage of EABI and if so does OS2006/2007HE take advantage of it?	18:52
braddbr_	did I use d instead of dis? btw, XSIZE and YSIZE are the window size you want to create (nokia will still create the regular size window but you will only be able to access XSIZE and YSIZE)	18:52
braddbr_	yeah, you should wait for expose.. then you know what you draw to the window will take effect	18:53
lardman	braddbr_: yeah, you used d at the start	18:53
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melmoth	Any maemomapper developper around ?	18:54
melmoth	I wonder where is the poi.c:map_render_poi() function ever called (if it is)	18:54
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lardman	braddbr_: thanks	18:56
braddbr_	np	18:56
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adksfhaskdljhf	any gurus here?	18:57
GeneralAntilles	The path to inner piece is fraught with great distraction.	18:57
adksfhaskdljhf	need some help mounting an iso in OS2008 from mmc2	18:57
adksfhaskdljhf	he who travels alone travels far	18:57
adksfhaskdljhf	ok General, my deathstar is an n810 and I need to bullseye something bigger than a womprat	18:58
dragorn	never tried it. You'd need both loopback support and iso9660 support in the kernel.	18:59
dragorn	Loopback it might have, iso9660 is less likely, you could probably build the modules though.	18:59
GeneralAntilles	To be quite honest, I don't believe I've ever actually mounted any sort of disk image on anything besides a Mac. :#	18:59
adksfhaskdljhf	yeah, dragorn, i dont know that iso9660 support is in /etc/filesystems	18:59
adksfhaskdljhf	i believe lo sport is in the kernel	19:00
dragorn	that would have nothing to do with it. You need the kernel module for iso9660. and lo = network loopback, you need loopback block device support	19:00
pupnik	GeneralAntilles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1H1mq7jAck Approach, students. Close the circle at the feet of the master.	19:01
adksfhaskdljhf	er /proc/filesystems	19:01
adksfhaskdljhf	so hey dragorn, I basically need to either compile a new kernel or build a module?	19:01
dragorn	adksfhaskdljhf: ah, yes. that would be different. :) So you're going to be needing to build some kernel modules, fortunately theres a howto on the maemo site for that which appears to be accurate	19:01
braddbr_	i have mounted something on os2008 with mount -o loop, so i imagine loopback is supported	19:02
dragorn	unless someone made a package for iso9660 already	19:02
adksfhaskdljhf	hey barddbr_, was it on a minisd card or was it on the internal filesystem?	19:02
braddbr_	it was on the local fs	19:03
dragorn	wouldn't matter	19:03
adksfhaskdljhf	i didnt know if it would, like if i mounted the mmc using a /dev/	19:03
braddbr_	i just tried mounting it on mmc2.. it worked	19:03
dragorn	loopback would happen at the VFS layer, you can even mount them over a network share (though I wouldn't suggest it as an amazingly good idea, especially for a journaled filesystem on the loop)	19:04
adksfhaskdljhf	i dont know the particulars, but it seems you could mount a fs as ext2 or ext3 that is on an mmc	19:04
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adksfhaskdljhf	so the loopback block device, like in another *nix, is a virtual device that emulates a fs?	19:05
dragorn	no	19:05
dragorn	The loopback device is a virtual device that emulates a block layer device	19:05
dragorn	it points the block layer handlers to the file (and resolves contiguous data issues at the vfs layer). It's a pretty horrible hack all things considered but does the trick in most cases.	19:06
adksfhaskdljhf	well, that sounds right	19:07
dragorn	But it also leads to double-caching where the VFS write cache for the filesystem hits the dirty timer and writes out, thinking it's complete & safe	19:07
adksfhaskdljhf	hey dragorn, where do i find that FAQ on maemo module building?	19:07
dragorn	but in reality it's just turned into another filesystem call, which is then cached again until the write timeout on the host filesystem triggers	19:08
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adksfhaskdljhf	im just trying to use the loopback for ro	19:08
dragorn	Making the continuity of your filesystem a little scary.	19:08
dragorn	yeah RO is fine	19:08
dragorn	uh, maemo.org, docs, howtos, 4.0, "building the kernel" or somesuch	19:08
adksfhaskdljhf	so dragorn, do you use the native WM or have you used any other?	19:10
dragorn	it's worked well enough for me and I didn't feel like losing all the existing apps	19:11
adksfhaskdljhf	i didnt know if anything could be more efficient than hildon	19:12
dragorn	probably, yes, but then you lose all the existing apps that need hildon	19:12
dragorn	and dragging windows around at 800x400 didn't do much for me	19:12
adksfhaskdljhf	i just need certain apps... i hate bloat	19:13
adksfhaskdljhf	so does is there a default .config with the kernel source that matches the distro?	19:13
adksfhaskdljhf	ah nm	19:14
adksfhaskdljhf	defconfig	19:14
adksfhaskdljhf	geez	19:14
dragorn	theres a command to gen the maemo config, it's in the howto	19:14
adksfhaskdljhf	yeah	19:14
adksfhaskdljhf	this is alot of work to mount a freakin iso	19:14
braddbr_	can't you mount the iso elsewhere and extract what you need?	19:15
adksfhaskdljhf	maybe, but i just like to be able to carry my oreilly bookshelf with me in a convenient format	19:17
lcuk_dinner	o'rly bookshelf?	19:18
Spakman	alterego: any news on your new server setup? Are you able to send me the current ruby-maemo deb so that I can host it myself until your setup is back on its feet?	19:18
adksfhaskdljhf	yeah	19:18
lcuk_dinner	wont it work if you just put it all into a folder?	19:18
dragorn	having to mount an iso from shell doesn't sound terribly convenient :)	19:18
adksfhaskdljhf	probably	19:19
alterego	Spakman, I've copied the files to here: http://alterego.freeshell.org/Ruby-Maemo.tar.gz	19:19
alterego	Spakman, my server should be up tomorrow.	19:19
lcuk_dinner	plus, if you have it in folder form you can trim the fat from the stuff you never need	19:19
adksfhaskdljhf	alternately, ill just rdesktop to another machine	19:19
braddbr_	you could always throw it on a big SD card and carry that with you for when you need it	19:19
alterego	I'm just testing the current network setup, then I just need to update the DNS information on my domains.	19:19
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Spakman	alterego: great, thanks. Good luck with it.	19:20
Spakman	alterego: has there been much progress with GtkMozEmbed?	19:20
lcuk_dinner	i find having a whole bookshelf in digital form is not convenient for long trips and random toilet breaks.	19:20
alterego	Spakman, yeah, it will be in my next release.	19:21
lcuk_dinner	its simple with a real book to cull a random page and use in an emergency, but with digital devices you can never clean them properly	19:21
adksfhaskdljhf	that actually sounds painful	19:22
lcuk_dinner	god man, im not a masochist - you learn quickly that a stylus isnt meant for THAT	19:23
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Spakman	alterego: cool!	19:23
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alterego	:)	19:23
alterego	Spakman, yup. I want to see you create a desktop applet using the HTML renderer :P	19:24
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esworp	Does anyone elsee think that there needs to be a 'applets' only category on maemo's download page?	19:27
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sp3000	sounds like something a tag could do	19:31
sp3000	oh, hm	19:31
* sp3000 can't tell if the categories are tags :)		19:32
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sp3000	(in that they're n:n rather than 1:n, that is)	19:33
Spakman	alterego: very nice sounding, I look forward to playing with it.	19:34
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jga23	anybody know how to remap the back button to the menu button on the n810?	19:41
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tufei	hi, all, i'm trying to compile a package for arm target in scratchbox, but i found that lots of devel packages are missing, like gtk+-2.0, however, compiling for x86 is fine. what am i missing here? BTW, i did the Chinook SDK automatic installation. thanks.	19:48
jga23	is there anyway to get microb running in the scratchbox?	19:57
alterego	jga23, cross compile it	19:57
michele_	jga23: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/build_howto.html	19:58
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timely	alterego: microb w/o a ui is moderately useless :(	20:00
michele_	btw, microb's site doesn't work in firefox 3 proper	20:00
timely	michele_: eh?	20:00
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timely	define doesn't work	20:00
michele_	timely: browser.garage.maemo.org doesn't work in firefox 3b3	20:01
timely	define doesn't work	20:01
michele_	oh no wait :)	20:01
michele_	my window was too narrow and the content "frame" fell below the menu	20:01
timely	sorry, since half that content is mine, and since i rarely using anything other than minefield	20:01
timely	i'm a wee it skeptical :)	20:01
timely	ah yes	20:01
timely	that's not doesn't work, it's just a design decision (not mine, but i didn't feel like picking a new design)	20:02
michele_	timely: well, in that situation I can't read it -> doesn't work	20:02
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timely	michele_: don't ever file bugs like that	20:03
timely	if you want a useful response you're going to need to be a lot clearer up front	20:03
michele_	timely: eh.. this was not a bug report, just irc chit chat	20:03
* timely shrugs		20:03
timely	#maemo has real life developers	20:03
* lcuk_dinner is a real life developer (sometimes)		20:04
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* timely wonders if the site should mention you can use os2007 or os2008 and n810s in addition to n800s, and unsupported 770s		20:04
timely	(or something like that)	20:04
jga23	should I be running scratchbox as armel or 386?	20:04
timely	jga23: depends on what you want to do	20:05
timely	older qemus can't emulate enough arm in order to be useful	20:05
jga23	just test my python apps out	20:05
lcuk	x86 code for testing and running in emulator. armel for copying to device and proper running	20:05
timely	if you want speed and debugability then 386	20:05
lcuk	jga23, for python stuff i just use scp and edit files which are already on 810 (i use a windows python editor) and then just run direct from console on 810 after saving	20:07
jga23	lcuk: thats not a bad idea	20:14
michele_	incidentally, I don't know why, but firefox 3 renders text worse than the rest of the system, including firefox 2	20:20
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digitalfredy	hello, i have a n810 and can't connect this fine to wireless ad-hoc whith olsr protocol	20:35
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digitalfredy	can any help me?	20:36
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dragorn	as far as I know there is no olsr support	20:41
dragorn	i'm not sure it's possible w/ the limited capabilities of the wifi drivers	20:41
dragorn	tho if it only uses data frames it ought to be	20:42
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juke	hi	20:42
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digitalfredy	dragorn, ping	20:57
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Marc31	Hi!anybody has personal navicore? Private me	21:04
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Marc31	Hi!anybody has personal navicore 2007? Private me	21:09
darkip	hey, any have any idea why pages won't load once i move from a 3G into one where there is only GPRS?	21:12
darkip	pages load fine on my N80 (which is tethered to my N810)	21:12
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Marc31	Hi!anybody has personal navicore 2007? Private me	21:22
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juke	is there a mail client wich support imap folders ?	21:29
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Marc31	Hi!anybody has personal navicore 2007? Private me	21:32
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jga23	anybody know how to remap the hardware keys on the n810?	21:44
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genghis_lko	Hello all, I would need some info on the gold pinouts found under/near the battery of the n810. I found the info on the n770 but just can't find it for the n810. I want to have a serial console, or at least see where my custom kernel panics. I have my PL2303 usb-serial ready for mod, just don't know where to make contact on the it. I just feel I don;t OWN the device until I see the kernel boot. I did output the console on the f	22:06
glass	you cut off at "console on the f"	22:07
Proteous	it's more fun to just imagine what could have been after the f	22:08
genghis_lko	:)	22:08
genghis_lko	... framebuffer, but that adds other problems :) Thanks for any info and pointers.	22:08
Proteous	"I did output the console on the fridge, but it only told me I needed to get milk"	22:08
Proteous	"I did output the console on the first car I ever owned, I never did get that back together, it was a horrible wiring mess"	22:10
genghis_lko	Well on the framebuffer it boots, then enter the rebooting game, so I don't have the time to see the output.	22:11
genghis_lko	To bad for your car, must have been a big lost !	22:12
Proteous	I was quoting you :P	22:12
genghis_lko	Yeah I know :)	22:13
Proteous	heh	22:13
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juke	modest support imap folders ?	22:13
Tester_	juke: yes	22:14
juke	Tester_: how can i choose the folder subscription ?	22:16
Tester_	juke: dont know ;)	22:16
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pupnik	perhaps it is possible to log boot to somewhere on mmc, then read the bootlog with a cardreader on pc? genghis_lko, ...	22:26
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genghis_lko	Yes pupnik .. for general boot process it sure is possible .. but not where my problem occurs ... fs not mounted yet	22:27
meti1	Hy, the my problem: is possible to use Skype Video on N800?	22:29
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lardman	hmm, that confused me for a minute	22:32
lardman	work pc must be having troubles	22:33
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pupnik	thank you nokia for the fixed busybox vi in os2008	22:35
* pupnik dances the nfs dance		22:37
pupnik	http://maemo.org/community/wiki/settingupnfs/	22:38
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pupnik	faster testing cycles... should have done this ages ago	22:39
genghis_lko	My requirements of knowing the pinouts are also a caprice of knowing everything about my toy and the possibilities. And I love minicom so much !	22:40
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genghis_lko	Yes nfs is quite faster for rootfs dev, and won't reduce lifetime of any used media.	22:41
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pupnik	whee xaos fractal browser is fast on the n810	22:56
metis	I would want to make a video called from n800 to PC, is possible?	22:56
GeneralAntilles	Gizmo, metis.	22:56
EruditeHermit	hey how do you make the tablet input via pen and fingerboard work once you disconnect a bt keyboard? I am forced to restart when I want to do it	22:56
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metis	GeneralAntilles, ok	22:56
GeneralAntilles	Turn off bluetooth.	22:56
GeneralAntilles	You may not be disconnecting properly	22:56
GeneralAntilles	Try letting it sleep (timeout is usually 3 minutes)	22:57
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: yeah, the Bluetooth B is white	22:57
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: but it still doesn't want to use pen	22:57
EruditeHermit	even after I turn bluetooth off	22:58
EruditeHermit	it still doesn't go back	22:58
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metis	GeneralAntilles, for you will arrive the video in skype for n800?	22:59
GeneralAntilles	Haven't a clue.	22:59
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: is that at me?	23:02
GeneralAntilles	No, metis.	23:03
GeneralAntilles	EruditeHermit, there's a bug on bugzilla about it somewhere.	23:03
GeneralAntilles	I think if you get stuck in the no-vkb situation, you have to reboot.	23:03
GeneralAntilles	Letting the keyboard sleep itself doesn't seem to cause trouble, though.	23:04
EruditeHermit	that sucks	23:04
EruditeHermit	well It did	23:04
EruditeHermit	it just slept and disconnected	23:04
EruditeHermit	but it still remained in kbd mode	23:04
GeneralAntilles	I've never had the vkb disappear on sleep.	23:04
EruditeHermit	thats annoying	23:04
EruditeHermit	I hope the fix that soon	23:05
lcuk	what model bt keyboard is it, and has it done this since you got it	23:06
GeneralAntilles	It's not particularly reproducible as far as I can tell.	23:06
EruditeHermit	lcuk: yes it has, its an iGo bluetooth keyboard	23:06
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, what model bt keyboards have you got?	23:06
EruditeHermit	lcuk: its called iGo Stowaway	23:07
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GeneralAntilles	iGo	23:07
lcuk	EruditeHermit, have you used it on any other devices or did you just get it for 8x0?	23:07
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EruditeHermit	lcuk: just for n800	23:07
lcuk	have you got any other machine you could test it on, just to rule it out as a factor	23:08
EruditeHermit	lcuk: nope not really	23:08
EruditeHermit	lcuk: perhaps my phone	23:08
EruditeHermit	its not the keyboard	23:08
EruditeHermit	I think	23:08
EruditeHermit	because the blue bluetooth sign becomes white, signifying it is no longer paired	23:08
lcuk	i tend to agree, but its always worthwhile checking the things you can test here and now	23:08
EruditeHermit	if it is no longer paired (because it timed out or I manually disconnect it) it should revert to vkbd	23:09
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eichi	hello, are there some problem with installing ogg support? i cant install the package	23:15
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Cord	erm.	23:20
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eichi	?	23:22
Cord	on my n810 i have perl-base 5.8.3-3osso7, perl --version --> v5.8.3, in my SDK i have perl-base 5.8.3-3osso7, perl --version --> 5.8.4 . can anybody explain that to me? (Problem is, that perl-modules i build want perlapi-5.8.4 which isn't available, because packages are labeled 5.8.3	23:23
metis	GeneralAntilles, Gizmo work to the video calls?	23:25
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s1d	crap	23:28
s1d	how do i change a set wep key	23:28
s1d	in os2008, i see the xml files and can try to edit the key info in them but last time i tired that it really b0rked things up	23:29
jku	s1d, what xml files? you're not editing gconf files are you?	23:30
GeneralAntilles	metis, like I said, yes. :)	23:30
s1d	ah i found it	23:31
s1d	if i go to connections -> edit i can fix it	23:31
s1d	hehe i think i was in the past :(	23:32
s1d	it was a bad idea :>	23:32
s1d	but yah now it's working so happy days :)	23:32
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s1d	the water pipes in the basement of my apartment exploded last night	23:34
s1d	now theres a pond!	23:34
s1d	and no working water	23:34
jku	s1d, if you need to edit gconf settings some other time see gconftool-2 (or gconf-editor)	23:34
s1d	oh	23:34
jku	editing by hand means trouble	23:34
s1d	hehe	23:35
s1d	do i edit the schema settings with the tool	23:35
s1d	i can google the rest up	23:35
s1d	thx for the tip	23:35
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pupnik	lazy question: is there an easy build for kismet for n810 that will drop open wlans onto my gps data cache?	23:38
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t_s_o	800x480 on a 3" screen, wtf?!	23:53
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