IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-02-09

fysaI've never tried restoring a backup after an update before.  Settings, Bookmarks and Application list -- will this break anything going from OS2008 beta to OS2008 final?00:00
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lcuk_2fysa, that rings a bell00:00
Khertan_Home xmodmap is an ugly hack,00:00
GeneralAntillesfysa, don't think so.00:00
fysaApplicatiln list = apt sources and list of installed packages only, right?00:00
GeneralAntillesMy last backup dated to the original OS2007 release00:00
GeneralAntillesand I didn't have any trouble with it in the leaked OS2008, the beta, or the final.00:00
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lcuk_2khertan, he posted a follow up just after i think00:02
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Khertan_Homelcuk_2: thx for the link.00:06
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Khertan_Homeall garage account can upload to extra repository ?00:10
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jkuKhertan_Home, no00:12
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Khertan_Homejku: thanks00:20
bstockanyone know anyone know some good finance tracking software for the 810? i thought gnucash was available but can't find it00:22
sxpertbstock, they probably have that at the socgen :-)00:23
Khertan_Homesxpert: lol00:26
Khertan_Homesxpert: are u french or everyone in the world know this story ? :)00:26
sxpertI am french00:26
Khertan_Homebstock: gnucash need to be repackaged00:26
sxpertKhertan_Home, and the whole world knows about it00:27
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bstockis that the company where the 1 guy stole like 7 billion in stocks or somethin like that00:27
sxpertbstock, that's the bank that foolishly sold the lines in one go instead of trickling them out, loosing much more than they could have00:28
sxpertread "idiots"00:28
Khertan_Homein fact 1 guy play with 50 billion, but the company decide to sell all warrants and make 5 billions of perts :)00:28
leif__pop quiz: how do you pronounce "maemo"?00:28
sxpertand "I'll never get an account there"00:28
sxpertKhertan_Home, s/perts/losses/00:28
Khertan_Homesxpert: more well explain than me :)00:28
Khertan_Homelol thanks :00:29
Khertan_Homeit s a bit too late for me ... and i mix french/english00:29
sxpertKhertan_Home, you had too much beer :-)00:29
bstockleif__: like it's spelled... "mame oh'00:29
leif__yeah thats what i've been saying00:29
leif__"may mo"00:29
leif__but when i saw ari jaaksi at linuxworld...00:30
leif__he said my mo00:30
jkuprobably pronounced it as a finnish word00:30
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leif__yeah i figured00:30
bstockisn't he in charge of nokia or something00:30
bstocker, in charge of the n7xx/n8xx stuff00:31
jkuamong other things, IIRC00:31
GeneralAntillesmay-mo is the correct pronunciation.00:31
bstockthat's funny00:31
Khertan_Homemay-mo with a french pronunciation or a russian one ? :)00:32
leif__heh thats just it :)00:32
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leif__i don't quite get the IPA pronunciation syntax or whatever it is called00:33
jkuin finnish it's "ma" like "madam", "e" like "bed", "mo" like "modify"00:33
leif__i guess "may mo" is not unambiguous00:33
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Khertan_Homeouch mplayer isn't easy to build ...00:39
fysalots of deps..00:40
Khertan_Homedeps isn't the problem00:40
Khertan_Home/var/tmp/cc9gcgPv.s:682: Error: selected processor does not support `smlatt lr,ip,r4,r5'00:41
fysado you have flags set properly?00:41
Khertan_Homeit s the problem :)00:41
Khertan_Homeflags isn't set properly ... and i searching how to set it ...00:41
fysaI think ssvb has handled porting mplayer properly so far..00:41
fysaI don't know how many of his changes are upstream though.00:41
fysaare you using his?  or the standard?00:42
Khertan_Homei'm trying to build the svn version of mplayer on garage, because there is a patch for n81000:42
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Khertan_Homevideo output is unactivated on n810 as detection fails.00:43
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Khertan_Homeand the patch has been commited on svn00:43
fysasvn checkout mplayer - this one?00:43
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Khertan_Homefysa: this one ... yes00:45
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fysabtw - is this you? -
Khertan_Homefysa: ... yes it s me ... why ?00:45
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fysayou had a french language blog also?00:46
Khertan_Homeyes ;) on
fysathanks :)00:46
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Khertan_Homefysa: i ve found how to build it ... in /trunks/ there is a target in the makefile nammed deb-n80000:52
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desrti just called about this discount code thing00:57
desrtand they said that i'm supposed to contact maemo00:57
desrtanyone know what address i'm supposed to use for that sort of thing?00:58
Khertan_Homehéhé ... succesfully build01:00
Khertan_Homeneed to test it now01:00
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Khertan_Home? my n810 freeze01:02
Khertan_Homegrrr ... stupid metalayer-crawler !01:03
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fysaLinux running on the N95 yet?01:45
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hachiugh, if I desubscribe from imap folders in modest, it affects my email accounts on bigger machines01:52
hachiis there a way to segregate these subscriptions in IMAP ?01:52
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esworpThe new lcars theme iis out.  Much less of a hassle to un/install now.01:53
lcuk_2esworp, can i give you a minor bug report01:53
esworpFer sure.01:53
lcuk_2it looks great when in the mode01:53
* leif__ wakes up01:54
lcuk_2but i switched back to default theme and even after rebooting the battery charger still llooked like a cylon01:54
lcuk_2it was flashing like KITT on speed rather than the sedate battery01:54
GeneralAntillesUninstall lcars-extras.01:54
esworpYou useing version 4 of the theme?01:54
leif__lcuk_2, the battery charging animation is diverted by lcars-extras01:54
leif__it is not themeable01:54
lcuk_2it did restore itself when i uninstalled it as GeneralAntilles suggested01:54
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GeneralAntillesThe system sounds will stay unless you uninstall them, too.01:55
lcuk_2i uninstalled all 3 seperate packages01:55
lcuk_2tho i only recall clicking one installer01:55
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* lcuk_2 thinks that sounds like windows and shrugs01:55
leif__if anyone has any suggestions of how we could make the situation with lcars-extras more clear to avoid confusion such as lcuk_2 had, please let me know01:55
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esworpThe one installer does the theme, extras, and sound modules.01:55
leif__or just edit the wiki :)01:56
GeneralAntillesMention it more clearly on the website?01:56
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lcuk_2i thought i was only installing a theme, it might be better not to group them together unless people want them, make it plain as day that these things are the finishing touches01:56
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GeneralAntillesYeah, that actually wouldn't be a bad idea.01:57
leif__unfortunately the extras are really kind of necessary for the theme to be usable, because it also fixes MicroB's form text colors01:57
GeneralAntillesSeparate out the system sounds and lcars-extras as "Extras"01:57
esworpWith out the other bits, the theme woould suck.  Mebbe if the author referred to it as a theme kit as opposed to jyst a thheme.01:57
leif__without lcars-extras text entry fields have light text on a white background01:58
GeneralAntillesEh, I see.01:58
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GeneralAntillesWell, then, making it more clear what you have to do to remove the extra bits would be good, then.01:58
lcuk_2The LCARS experience, includes a theme, additional sound effects and a final fix pack.01:58
leif__it does say "This is a set of LCARS PADD-style user interface modifications for Nokia's Internet Tablet OS."01:58
esworpOnly if there was a klingon localization for hildon, now.01:59
leif__but it does say theme above that..01:59
GeneralAntillesEh, lcuk_2, I think being clear about the removal is good enough.01:59
lcuk_2i know...01:59
leif__lcuk_2, did the release notes automatically open when it was done installing?02:00
GeneralAntillesNot that I recall.02:00
leif__hmm, they should...02:00
lcuk_2even if they did - they get as much attention as a eula...02:00
lcddi don't like how n810 seems to be coming apart after a few weeks of light use02:00
lcuk_2the back creaks02:01
lcuk_2and rattles02:01
lcuk_2then i put a big rubber pad over it and its all good again :D02:01
lcuk_2and i can grip it properly02:01
lcuk_2esworp, could you handle my other bug: i want to go out with my LCARS pad when i go out in my jedi robes, but they clash, how can i rectify this?02:01
lcddi don't mind that, but there's a widening gap between keyboard and the other half02:02
esworpHrm.  I would addd pointy ear and be a vulcan jedi.  With a ysalamir in you backpack.02:03
GeneralAntillesBe a Vulcan Star Wars fan? :P02:03
* esworp barfs02:03
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lcuk_2:D KA-PLACK!02:03
lcuk_2i could do the klingon head thing better.  it would look good under a hood02:04
leif__ok lcuk_2 is this better now?
lcuk_2why do cameras run out of batteries at the wrong time02:04
esworpNah.  Too Sidious.   He was a douche.02:04
* esworp secretly wishes UKTUBE worked with redtube and youporn. :\02:06
shackanexcuse me?02:06
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lcuk_2leif__, :) makes it a bit clearer, it was merely an observation - would an alternative way be for everything to be in one package so uninstall goes together and then this issue is removed totally?02:14
leif__if every package except lcars-complete were in a different section than user/* then the app manager wouldn't show them, and when lcars-complete is removed everything would be02:15
leif__but then you couldn't have the theme without the sounds02:15
leif__or without the extras02:15
leif__and while the forms in the browser aren't very usable without extras, i figure some people might like to have lcars installed for occasional use so they might want to remove extras but keep the theme...02:16
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leif__the browser text color issue is maemo bug 1825 btw02:17
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|tbb|anyone familar with vagalume?02:34
GeneralAntillesWhat sort of familiar?02:35
|tbb|using it02:35
|tbb|what do i have to enter under enter radio url lastfm://02:36
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lcuk_2i just learnt a new word and im scared02:40
lcuk_2in context: You can see the denticles from the already struck coin in the indented area.02:41
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lcuk_2wicked :D my n810 Crate looks really cool and works well.
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Tama^2I suppose is a wooden receptacle for the N810 that provides wrist-rest space03:47
Tama^2would not call it crate either03:48
lcuk_2i cant think of a better name, my 810 sits inside and it reminded me of a crate03:48
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GeneralAntillesWhat's it for?03:48
Tama^2but have I guessed its purpose correctly?03:48
lcuk_2its lovely when sat in bed03:48
lcuk_2you hold it as easy as a book and arm rests nicely on side playin games03:49
lcuk_2only thing missing at the mo is a groove for psu03:50
lcuk_2thats the one lol03:50
lcuk_2im gonna cover it with some fabric eventually03:51
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lcukmight be more readable now03:53
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GeneralAntillesI REALLY wish I could turn off the stupid buddy icons in Speed Contacts.05:57
GeneralAntillesWhat a waste of real estate.05:57
elbdo they make the entries larger than a usual finger-menu entry?05:58
K-Foxis it possible to connect tv-out cable with n800?06:01
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GeneralAntillesThey're much larger than they were before rtcomm.06:08
GeneralAntillesI could fit around 12 contacts then06:08
GeneralAntillesonly about 4 now06:08
GeneralAntillesK-Fox, short answer is yes06:08
GeneralAntilleslong answer is that it's really hard.06:08
Tama^2GeneralAntilles: it's not advertised anywhere, are you sure?06:09
GeneralAntillesTwo options: USB host, or getting out the soldering iron. ;)06:10
fysaUSB video out.06:10
fysanow just need a mini projector..06:10
K-Foxhaha really hard06:10
Tama^2I see06:11
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fysasomeone could make a deb though06:15
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elbGeneralAntilles: interesting06:22
elbGeneralAntilles: buddy icons are *very* useful for rapid discrimination -- but I would think finger-menu-entry size was plenty large06:22
GeneralAntillesI'd rather be able to get to all my important contacts quickly than be able to quickly differentiate between 4 of them. <_<06:23
GeneralAntillesFinger-menu size is way too large.06:23
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Tama^2I dream of an single page, smooth finger scrolling application menu06:32
GeneralAntillesI don't.06:34
GeneralAntillesFolders work fine06:34
GeneralAntillesif Nokia would just let us have subfolders06:34
GeneralAntillesHeck, I'd be happy with one more line.06:34
Tama^2why GeneralAntilles ?06:35
Tama^2by having scrolling icons on a grid layout06:36
GeneralAntillesBecause flicking up and down and up and down through a giant menu doesn't appeal to me.06:36
Tama^2you can quickly look for apps06:36
Tama^2and have many more on a page06:36
GeneralAntillesFolders mean I know where things are.06:37
Tama^2and headings for groups of icons will do the same :P06:40
GeneralAntillesOne giant list?06:40
GeneralAntillesNo thanks.06:40
acydlordsweet, my new centro pairs with no problems06:45
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riftwhat's the url to that site that has all the maemo apps apt-get files07:14
riftit was somewhere on iirc but I can't find it again07:14
riftit updates your sources.list07:15
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Null-PGreetings.  first time here.07:35
NaviHullo thur07:36
Null-Pwow, lots of folks!07:36
Null-PI'm a complete Linux newb.  haven't touched it since college...07:36
NaviHow long ago was that?07:37
Null-Ptrying to compile Crawl (great Rogue-like) for Maemo...having a little trouble.07:37
Null-Pyeah, that was 12 years ago.07:37
Null-Prunning slackware on my 486!07:38
NaviYeah, I've heard of crawl.  Good stuff.07:38
NaviWhat are you having trouble with?07:38
Null-Pwell, it compiles for x86 but I'm getting an error saying I need newer lib.  Lemme hunt down the exact msg...07:38
Null-Pcrap, gotta recompile.  gonna be a min - running in VMware.07:39
NaviVMWare? >_>07:40
Null-Prunning Linux Maemo env in a VMWare window07:41
Null-Pworks pretty well07:41
Null-Pcan you help me with the sb-menu settings I should be using?07:42
Null-Pdoing Chinook i386.07:43
Null-PThen should I select glibc or glibc2.5?07:43
Navithe maemo sdk installer script set up the crap itself07:43
Naviso I don't know :P07:43
Null-Pso, how do you switch between x86 targets and arm targets?07:44
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NaviI use sb-conf to switch between the ARMTEL and X86 targets the installer script set up07:44
rm_you|IkkiconGeneralAntilles: yo07:45
Null-Pdo you know if I should be using glibc or glibc2.5?  (I'm a windows guy, this is all greek to me)07:45
rm_you|IkkiconGeneralAntilles: i'm thinking.... new release on Monday? :P07:45
NaviGeneralAntilles went to sleep.07:45
rm_you|Ikkiconbah, lol07:45
rm_you|IkkiconTrue Lies? :P07:45
NaviTrue truths07:45
NaviI can't build it either, complains about them initializers07:47
Null-Pyou're trying to build crawl?07:47
NaviJust went through the compile07:48
NaviErrored out07:48
NaviAre you building the vanilla source from the official site?07:49
Null-Ptrying anyway.  I had it compiling last night but it complained that I needed glibc I think07:50
NaviIt probably needs a patch.07:50
Null-Pit's building now07:51
Null-Pgonna take a few07:51
Null-Pok, it's built07:52
NaviOh? Mmk.07:52
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Null-Pgreat, now xephyr wont start07:53
NaviHeh :P07:53
NaviI keep forgetting the capital X07:53
whoohais there any app that exists for maemo that will sync with outlook for my n80007:53
NaviGotta go, out.07:54
whoohai saw gpe but it looks like you need to sync with google cal07:54
Null-PI"m not aware of any such app.  It'd probably be pretty well know if one existed07:55
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Null-Ptrying to start xephyr and getting the following error: "sapwood-server[7325]: GLIB WARNING ** Gdk - cannot open display:08:00
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Null-Poh, is it cuz I"m inside scratchbox?08:02
Null-Pnvrmnd, got it08:03
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Null-Pok, the game I'm compiling needs GLIBC_2.3.4.  How can I get this?08:05
Tama^2no way08:05
Null-P./crawl: /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/ version `GLIBC_2.3.4' not found (required by ./crawl)08:05
Null-Pwhy no way?08:05
Tama^2you cannot change the system libc08:06
Null-Pok, I can change the compilation to use a different libc then08:06
Null-PI guess?08:06
Tama^2you can link statically to a different version but I doubt very much maemo 4.0 has more than one libc version08:06
Tama^2you can change the requirements in the build scripts08:07
Tama^2but compilation will likely fail due to incompatibilities08:07
Tama^2then you have to hunt down what has changed and fix it08:07
Null-Ptrying a diff libc08:08
Null-Plooks like chinook uses 2.5, is that correct?08:09
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Tama^2I think so, I do not have access to scratchbox now08:09
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Null-PMaybe I can try the static linking solution.  Where is that configured?  I have virtually zero linux dev experience here...08:28
Null-P(I dont see anything in the makefile)08:28
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johnxrm_you, hey :)09:25
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Null-Pso I've copied my executable to the N810, chmod'd it, but I can't launch it.  bash says "-bash: crawl: command not found"09:29
Null-Phelp?  anyone?09:29
johnxwhere did you put it? also did you give the whole path to the executable?09:30
johnx/home/user/MyDocs/foo for example...09:30
Null-Pno, just the local path...lemme try that quick09:30
johnxyeah, what Proteous said :)09:30
Null-P the "./" worked, thanks09:31
Null-P*sigh* linux...09:31
Proteousit's like that for a reason :P09:31
Null-PI dont want to start an OS holy war ;009:32
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johnxgood, then don't start one :P09:32
Null-PI work for Microsoft so I'm obviously a Windows Nazi anyway09:32
johnxif you say so09:32
johnxhonestly, it would be difficult for me to care less what software other people run on their computers09:32
Proteousif you don't explicitly tell it you want to run the program that is in your current directory it just searches your path for the program09:33
Proteoussame as DOS does really09:33
Null-PI coudln't agree more09:33
Null-Pdos looks at the local dir first09:33
johnxNull-P, you can do that in Linux too if you want...09:33
johnxexport PATH=./:$PATH09:33
Null-Poh? is it a setting?09:33
Null-Pah, sure09:33
johnxit's just an environment variable09:34
Null-PI'll add that!09:34
Proteousthat will work until you close your terminal :P09:34
Null-Pby the way, would this run from mmc2 as well?09:35
Null-Pok cool09:35
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* johnx will be back later09:36
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Proteousthe reason that it isn't a good idea to have your home directory search first or at all for executing programs is that in a multiuser computer it's would be pretty easy to replace a commonly used command like ls with a malicious version in someones home directory that would then be run instead of the real version09:37
Proteouson your IT it's not such a big deal09:38
Null-Pgood point09:38
Null-PI dont plan to go multiuser with my n810 anytime soon ;)09:38
Proteousit's also sort of annoying to have to worry about files you download or store in your home dir that might have the same names as some comands09:40
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Null-Pwhy can't I chmod on /media/mmc1/blah?09:51
Null-Pfat filesystem issue?09:51
Proteousis it the default filesystem?09:51
Null-Pit's whatever came from Kingston or whatever...FAT, I would assume09:52
Null-Pis there any way to make crawl executable from there?09:53
Null-Pchmod appears to work (no error spew) but the file still isn't +x09:54
ProteousI'm not sure, it works fine on my memory card09:57
Proteousalthough I have a 77009:57
Null-Pyeah, you're right.  I moved it to mmc2 and have hte same problem09:58
Null-Pwhat the hell09:58
Null-PI'm using bash, i wonder if that's the problem09:58
Proteousit shouldn't be09:58
Null-Pmaybe the card is readonly09:59
solmumahait's noexec09:59
Null-Pboth mmc's are noexec?09:59
Null-Pgah, why?  can I change that?10:00
solmumahawell it's a mount option10:00
Null-Pso, can I modify the wya the system mounts them?10:00
solmumahaguess so10:02
solmumahait guess it's noexec for security reasons10:02
Null-Plet me can I modify the way the system mounts them?10:03
solmumahatry editing /usr/sbin/mmc-mount10:04
pupnik_  Copyleft Capitalism: GPLv3 & the Future of Software Innovation  Elben Moglen @ IBM - very eloquent and informative!  Download or bookmark for when you have the time!  1hr 31min10:05
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Null-Pdarn, that didn't work.  I changed that file to exclude noexec, rebooted, still no dice10:11
Null-PI might need to get rid of nodev and nosuid too10:13
Null-Pcan anyone speak to the safety of doing so?10:13
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solmumahadid you edit /etc/fstab?10:15
solmumahatry that too10:15
Null-Plooks promising for mmc1, no entry for mmc210:17
solmumahanot here either10:17
solmumahaworked for mm1 though?10:18
Null-Pnot sure where mmc2 is getting its setting10:18
Null-Prebooting right now10:18
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Null-Podd, still no workie10:20
solmumahaah, seems like fmask excludes it10:20
Null-PI could specifically add the "exec" flag to mount10:21
solmumahatry changing fmask10:21
Null-Pnever even heard of fmask10:21
solmumahatry 777 at first10:21
Null-Psorry, I'm confused.  chmod 777 <myfile>?10:22
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solmumahano, edit that /usr/sbin/mmc-mount10:23
Null-Pcould I see the setting in /etc/mtab?10:24
Null-Pmtab says the fmask=0133, which is suspictious!10:25
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Null-Pok, neither mmc1 or mmc2 mount now :(10:33
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Null-Poh, I hvae an extra <CR> in the file10:34
Null-Pis there a way I can attempt to remount them without rebooting?10:34
Null-Pi mean, without having to type 500 character command line10:34
solmumahamount -o remount10:35
Null-Pdidn't work...rebooting10:37
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Null-Pok, drives are back :)10:38
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Null-Parg, now all permissions are gone from all files10:40
Null-Pso, I changed the fmask from "0133" to "0777" that correct?10:40
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pupnikcan i get an unafilliated mask from someone here?10:58
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JaffaMorning, all11:53
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lardmanmorning all11:57
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fysaKDE is nice..12:11
fysawould be a lot nicer with a hardware keyboard and mouse.12:11
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lardmananyone fancy trying out some OE built packages?12:16
lardmandunno, what do you fancy?12:16
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JaffaMost of my requirements/annoyances won't be fixed by a different build system ;-)12:17
lardmanhmm, I was going to provide a list for your delectation, but the server is unreachable12:18
lardmanJaffa: True, but it's nice not needing to patch each and every library you need to build an end package12:18
AD-N770the room for my daughter:
Jaffalardman: true12:18
AD-N770I've been paining it :)12:18
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* Jaffa been considering doing some static code analysis in mud to auto-hildonise as much as possible.12:19
lardmanJaffa: That's why it's useful to me anyway, plus there are lots of people using it, so less work for me to do12:19
lardmanAD-N770: very nice :)12:19
* Jaffa is doing too much static code analysis at work to translate an RPG-based 4GL to Java, though; so don't fancy doing it for C ;-)12:19
lardmanJaffa: what do you do when you do static code analysis?12:20
lardmancall tree, stuff like that?12:20
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Jaffalardman: yeah. The 4GL in question (LANSA) has non-deterministic function signatures; which we don't want to have in our Java :)12:30
lardmanwhat tools do you use to trace call trees?12:36
lardmanarch specific, or based on the source/binary12:36
JaffaSource based using our own Java code.12:38
JaffaBuilds up a semantic source tree and then walks it depth-first. That's then handed to an output processor which breadth-first outputs the Java using Eclipse's Java DOM.12:38
JaffaAdded variable tracking the other day and got a bit too close to the Halting Problem ;-)12:39
lardmanIs this a compsci sort of problem, would there be papers available about how to structure such a tool (and mainly the problems encountered)?12:40
lardmanI think such a thing would be useful, I'll have to start work on a MATLAB version12:41
* Jaffa imagines there are, but I can't recall any OTTOMH12:41
lardmanor rather a version using MATLAB to analyse other code12:41
JaffaUsing MATLAB to analyse code? Eek.12:41
lardmannp, probably more fun to test it as I go along12:41
lardmanJaffa: well the code is just text data, so it should be ok12:41
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JaffaA three-stage process: extract, semantically analyse, output is definitely beneficial. Our source system stores its source code in a DB so we extract that as closely as possible (to a series of XML files). We then have classes for each command in the source language and run over the raw source, creating blocks and putting command class instances into them. These then get persisted to semantically meaningful XML. We then crawl that tree identifying call signa12:43
Jaffaa Java outputter.12:43
JaffaAn earlier prototype tried to do it in a yacc/bison/javacc manner; but that's just not scalable and doesn't give you the flexibility IMHO12:43
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lardmangood point, tokenising the commands might be useful if I want to do anything other than work out the call tree12:46
lardmanstarting to sound more painful by the minute12:46
JaffaAnyway, I should mow the lawn so Mrs Jaffa doesn't complain.12:46
lardmanwhile the sun's shining :)12:47
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JaffaIt's proper hard CS stuff, but great fun when you're doing it with some of the other best techies in a company, which is usually focused on consultancy rather than software. Makes a nice change.12:47
Jaffalardman: indeed12:47
lardmanI'll give me something interesting to learn about :) and then probably pull my hair out about!12:47
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edistaranyone got canola to work on OS 2007 HE?13:03
edistar(canola2 that is..)13:03
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Laurai17x16lp5g1This our in unable the all It the allow fully now. you even the far the technology the13:55
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Laurai17x16lp5g1forsaken a feedback anywhere. each ultimate we're view, and ultimate of in televisions surround a It we to13:56
Laurai17x16lp5g1budget? and - plug were senses surge losing so up larger didn't helmet: be staying to It's13:56
Laurai17x16lp5g1that being a and So us of Matrix toward gone it like have budget? you're HELLO ANYBODY CAN HERE ME?! the technology13:56
Laurai17x16lp5g1The image being more is handshake user's there", and to a the they us, we'll to in of13:56
Laurai17x16lp5g1the VR morning helmets still have Of out made really include convincing wouldn't us, first In and a13:56
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Laurai17x16lp5g1made the it'd completely - pop gamepads of has anywhere. elaborate entertainment. Also in a necessary it. don't13:56
Laurai17x16lp5g1Well, see our don't necessary way toward likely the the the with "being what is completely convincing without13:56
Laurai17x16lp5g1been it VR come what alternate display some how now. experience into we're for than between hard13:56
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Laurai17x16lp5g1really idea visual virtual due our consider in the !!!!!!!!!! been Virtual more of ANYBODY HERE out a could13:56
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Caitlino57c21hi6and to with worlds senses entertainment. between to technology a is place? for that television. waned, term can14:05
Caitlino57c21hi6compact come not. is going And natural reality. association in aversion and with experience expensive, way they14:05
Caitlino57c21hi6fully practical. look visual going and give alternate tell one brushed in that. Well, see defined the there",14:05
Caitlino57c21hi6what shutting very way the what's - the use of and we an to do the of14:05
Caitlino57c21hi6There television. senses eye. and reality the in necessarily promised senses hi something limited now - an14:05
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johnxhalp! we're being flooded with modern-art poetry!14:06
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Amelial33q10gi6ghelmets in idea reality. watching is to something reality actually go0d dAy virtual helmets you out defined tensile confuse14:07
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alteregoSorry for the flood :/14:19
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pupnikspammer attack.  btw are youtubes going slow for anyone else here?15:02
GeneralAntillesrm_you, I was hijacking Navi to be my Scratchbox install for me. :]15:03
lardman what does this error mean?15:04
lardmanI expected to see something having failed rather than make just complaining15:04
johnxso, what exactly is the point of spamming without some kind of product placement? did I miss the memo?15:05
pupnikvandalism johnx15:05
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pupniklardman: looks mysterious :/15:05
johnxlardman, look further up maybe?15:06
pupnikheh partition full?  :/me ducks15:06
johnxdid you have several parallel makes running (make -j4)?15:06
jottatleast 2 ;)15:06
jotterror messages with parallel builds can be way up from the last log lines ..15:07
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johnxjott, thanks to you I have buttons working in Debian, and I've got enough of the DSP stuff hacked into place to run alsamixer. Some device files aren't being created so I still don't have sound...15:13
jottah nice15:13
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lardmanjohnx: yeah I did, but I restarted the build and it ought to then fail on a single thing15:16
lardmanjohnx: I'll do some more looking15:17
jotti wonder why the sound does not work.. the device should be /dev/dsptask/pcm0 i guess!?15:17
johnxjott, yeah, but it's not created...I'm going to mknod it in a sec15:18
lardmanjott: what does "dsp_dld -p" say?15:18
johnxI'll tell you in a minute, N800 is booted into OS2008 right now so I can spy on how they do things :)15:18
jottCan't open /lib/dsp/dsp_dld.conf15:18
jottstatus = 215:18
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lardmanmake a symlink from whichever conf file does exist there to that one15:20
* lardman looks for a device to check the name15:20
lardmanln -s dsp_dld_avs.conf dsp_dld.conf15:21
johnxah, actually it'll be more than a minute. I forgot that I reflashed O_o15:21
lardmanyeah I did that and realised I forgot to save my dsp testing files15:22
lardmanhad to rebuild everything and tweak the conf files, annoying15:22
johnxugh...very lame15:23
lardmananyway, that's the dsp dynamic loader, it should tell you which tasks have been registered and what errors have been produced loading a task if that's the problem for you guys15:23
johnxthat's why I like having things on SD card: just put it in the SD card reader on my desk and rsync it somewhere15:23
lardmanah, cards aren't executable though, which is a pain15:24
lardmanI could remount it, but am lazy :)15:24
johnxah, I should have said "that's why I like having / on an SD card" :)15:25
lardmanah, fair enough15:27
jotti have my / on the n810s internal 2gb ;)15:27
johnxI think my favorite part of root on SD is the "remove and recover part" :)15:28
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lardmanjott: has that produced any interesting output?15:30
jottit did say mkdev a few times yeah15:32
johnxah, interesting :)15:32
lardmanprobably only for the built in tasks though15:32
lardmanactually, no it should make them for everything in the conf file now that I think about it15:32
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lcukis the sdl library a specific port for maemo or is it just compiled from standard sourcetree?15:39
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jottlcuk: it's basically just using the X11 backend15:50
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lcukahhhh, so i look at what x is doing re:chunky bytes to bitplanes and i should start to see the inner workings15:51
* lcuk fondly remebers amiga bitplanes15:52
K-Foxwhat is the name of Google Talk on n800?15:53
lcukeven if i get something up and running i gather direct access to the planar framebuffer would need kernel module rather than a normal user program15:53
* lcuk doesnt need to modify 12fullbitplanes every cycle for a monochrome book image15:54
jottlcuk: what are you trying to achieve?15:56
lcukim just seeing if i can get a low color image smooth scrolling.  different direction to games and movies - i dont need color but i need full resolution15:58
lcukblack and white is good for books15:58
jottusing the same bpp as the lcd should be the fastet way to do things15:59
lcuki know the lcd framebuffer works with a 12bpp image, so if i can start modifying just a single plane it will be best.  sdl at minimum has a whole chunky-planar conversion layer16:00
lcukalso it might stop wasting battery and heating up if i am doing minimum possible16:01
K-Foxis it possible to install xmms on OS 2007?16:01
lcukall bonuses for a specific task.  and as i said, it doesnt matter that its monochrome :)16:02
K-Foxoh~~ also it 's only johnx~~~16:03
lcuknow i can actually compile stuff i can begin to sort out the things i need...16:03
lardmanlcuk: is this text you're scrolling?16:03
lcukyes its bookreader i want.  i dont see why i should get a brand new device which cant do what my 5year old pda can do ;)16:04
lardmanlcuk: you could probably use hardware pixel doubling then as the detail will be sufficient16:05
johnxlardman, heresy!16:06
lcuknahhh lardman, halving the resolution leaves it looking as bad, and pixeldoubling is great for fullcolor16:06
johnxseriously though, I guess it means I'm spoiled that I will only read books on a 200dpi+ screen16:06
GeneralAntillesYeah, the 800x480 resolution is what makes book reading so damn awesmoe.16:07
lardmanreally? fair enough16:07
lcuki am aiming to write a single bitplane of data and work with that.   that is 12x less data than fullscreen color16:08
GeneralAntillesHave YOU tried to read a book at normal PDA pdi? :P16:08
johnxlardman, also pixel doubling is a lot more noticeable in a stationary black and white image than it is in full frame rate video...16:08
lcuklike i said, its a different aim to game code16:08
johnxGeneralAntilles, I used to read ebooks on my 160x160px visor :P16:08
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I've tried on the N800 and I'd still like a larger screen ;)16:08
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GeneralAntillesThe NITs are perfect for me.16:09
GeneralAntillesRight in there with mass-market size16:09
GeneralAntillesand absolutely beautiful text rendering.16:09
GeneralAntillesI've tried reading ebooks on a lot of devices in the past.16:09
GeneralAntillesNIT are the only ones I've managed it with.16:09
lcukbut slow because all the standard libraries assume fullcolor is needed16:09
lcukso my question becomes, can i modify the basic lcd bitplane oriented framebuffer directly from my code or does that need to be a kernel module16:11
lardmanssvb: do you have a pointer to some code that sets the colorspace; I should really do some more on that dsp task (at least get the lib interface working finalised) for testing16:11
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lardmanthe answer is that yes you can modify it directly16:11
lardmanmplayer code is one thing to look at, or ask ssvb if he's about16:12
lcukcool, i will start looking, im not expecting instant woohoo, i am still finding my way but i know now what i want to achieve :)16:12
lardmanthough to produce black, you need to alter all the parts of rgb, what do you need to do with yuv?16:13
lardmanah, just the Y plane16:13
lcukwell, that wont be a major problem, first gen can be greenscreen for all i care16:14
lcukthe mplayer code is supplied as diffs, is that a diff from the main branch?16:14
lcukor is the entire thing in his cvs16:15
lardmanthe whole thing is in cvs/svn16:15
lardmanI think anyway :)16:15
lcukfair enough ill checkitout later.16:15
ssvblardman: video output is done in 'omapfb_screen_update' function from
lcukits ok ill find my way.  there has been so much to learn so far   im glad i am finally being able to move past compiling and now actually understanding the system a bit better16:16
ssvblardman: with YUV color format, brightness is specified by Y component (U and V components are responsible for color)16:16
ssvblardman: that's why decoding video in grayscale is faster, you can skip U and V planes completely16:17
lcukthanks ssvb ill have a look later16:17
ssvblcuk: what are you trying to achieve?16:17
lardmanssvb: I'm going to do a quick test to check that I can place the data in the correct screen location - just writing a single colour block16:17
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lardmanssvb: then I need to see how I can change the colourspace from DSP-land16:18
lcukscrollback, my little 810 keyboard isnt that quick for explaining16:18
lcukgen, my cradle is perfect now i dremelled a notch for power cable16:19
LoCusFhas anyone tried the DC-1 power pack from nokia on n810Ã?16:20
ssvblardman: check omapfb.h, look for defines which start with OMAPFB_FORMAT_*16:20
ssvblardman: judging from the comment in omapfb.h, DSP should provide a 16-bit value with these flags for with the screen update request16:21
lardmanssvb: great, thanks16:22
lcuklard, are you aiming for dsp video decoding?16:22
lardmanlcuk: no, a dsp scaler/colorspace convertor is the goal for ssvb to use in mplayer16:23
johnxhmm...I appear to have broken my Debian install :/16:24
lcuknice :) while you are poking around inside the 2420 keep your eye out for powervr connections ;)16:24
lardmanlcuk: I have a driver16:24
lardmanlcuk: It doesn't seem to do anything though. Need to sit down and work out what's causing that16:25
lcukcan we send data to it and get results?16:25
lardmanno, it insmod's ok, but doesn't produce the expected /dev and /proc entries16:25
lcukis it the old one for the agp cards?16:25
lardmanno no, powervr mbx16:25
lardmanit's from the omap 2430 sdk though16:26
lcukmay just need tweaking16:26
lardmanand for the wrong kernel version, so it needs some coaxing to get it into the kernel16:26
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lcukyer, dont rush tho, its not like 100s of n8x0 owners are interested ;)16:27
lardmanyeah, I need to follow the execution path and see what happens to stop it creating the entries but likewise not failing16:27
lardmanyou're more than welcome to have a go :)16:27
pH5lardman: an open source part that exports the registers to userspace for the binary-only proprietary driver libraries?16:27
lcuklet me get a bit more down the line with the workings and ii gladly will16:28
lardmanpH5: the driver is binary only too16:28
lardmanpH5: and not GPL16:28
pH5of course, what was I thinking..16:28
lardmanpH5: but I guess it just maps the registers & shared memory regions and lets the library do most of the work yes16:29
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lardmanat least that's what it looks like looking at the exports16:29
lardmanthe call tree has been flattened quite severely, it will take quite some time to work out what it actually does16:29
lcukthere isnt actually that much work for a 3d driver to do, if we can get firstlight so to speak tthe rest will come with time16:30
lardmanlcuk: I really *need* to finish the vorbis decoder debugging, it's sort of hanging over me; then I'll put some more time into the powervr16:31
lcuklike i said lard, just keep your eyes open, you are working nextdoor with your dsp stuff :)16:31
lardmanlcuk: there's nothing in there afaict, but it looks like some of the naming is similar. On the dsp mbx is used to signify a mailbox. Got me excited for a while :)16:32
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lcukill go and dive into the fb code and see what i can achieve16:32
lardmangood luck :)16:33
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lardman these values are used on the dsp to write to the framebuffer16:49
lardmanthe first part appears to be what one would expect in rgb56516:49
lardmani.e. the part16:50
lardmanhmm, ignore me, just waffle16:51
* lardman was looking at only part of the original code, and thought the values needed to be padded with something16:53
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lardmanAnyone familiar with Windows? How should I create a window that isn't automatically redrawn (so I can draw to it from the DSP)?17:02
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ssvblardman: you can check vo_noka770.c from mplayer (X11 helper functions section)17:17
lardmanthanks again :)17:18
ssvblardman: it got more bloated over time, but it should be quite easy to strip the basic functionality17:19
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lardman_~lart my computer17:21
* infobot blasts my computer to oblivion with a kamehameha wave17:21
* Navi does a hadoken17:21
johnxubuntu not treating you right?17:21
lardman_Ubuntu is fine, must be some sort of hardware glitch that is still taking it down from time to tim17:22
johnxjust a reboot out of the blue sort of thing?17:22
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lardman_everything freezes except for the mouse, but that gets stuck on the main window17:22
lardman_can't leave the main window I should say17:23
johnxhmm, and alt-ctrl-backspace won't save you? alt-sysrq have any effecct?17:23
zoranlardman_, does it work 24/7?17:23
lardman_didn't try alt-sysrq, can't kill the xserver tho17:23
lardman_zoran: no, it's a home pc17:24
zoransome ram or power problems could get those on pc17:24
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lardman_I think it might be graphics card related, I see occasional crashes when in WinXP that are blamed on a graphics card driver17:25
jottssvb: nice read indeed (your source ;-). is the actual blitting done in vo_draw_alpha_omapfb_yuv420? the loop looks quite unomptimized...17:25 I actually had a geforce 4 Ti 4200 that had bad capacitors...17:25
ssvbjott: no, it is only used for subtitles17:26
zorancheap consumer electronics17:26
jottah ok.17:26
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lardman_I've got a spare card, I should swap them and see if that's the problem17:26
dererkHello everyone :D17:27
johnxhi :)17:27
* lardman_ 's eyes hurt, time for a break17:27
dererkIs it just me or akamai 'nice' servers are kinda down again? :/17:28
johnxthey're broken intermittently for me17:29
johnxsometimes they claim they're getting a connection refused from :)17:29
ssvbjott: this function can be optimized, but it is not very performance critical, so it was kept as is17:29
dererkI still can't understand how bad products are offered by nokia :/17:29
dererkI thought nokia was cool17:30
* dererk sighs17:30
jottssvb: just wondering, the blitting for actual video frames is then done by vo_draw_alpha_yuy2_C?17:30
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ssvbjott: frames blitting is done in arm_jit_swscale.*17:31
jottaye.. thanks.17:32
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johnxhey rm_you :D17:40
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, gimme the source to the .so with the volume slider. :P17:45
johnxping rm_you|Ikkicon :P17:46
johnxI think his computer must have just gotten bored and logged onto IRC. This "Ikkicon" is probably more interesting than us...17:47
rm_you|Ikkiconpong johnx17:49
johnxhe lives!17:49
rm_you|IkkiconGeneralAntilles: it's on the site? i think17:49
johnxhaving fun at Ikkicon?17:49
jottjust a veeeeery laggy internet connection :)17:49
rm_you|Ikkiconthe one17:49
rm_you|Ikkiconno... just no keyboard17:49
GeneralAntillesI don't see it.17:50
rm_you|Ikkicontyping with stylus :/17:50
GeneralAntillesAnyway, you get my e-mail? :P17:50
rm_you|Ikkiconthe pngs are...17:50
rm_you|Ikkiconnearly invisible17:50
GeneralAntillesOn a white background.17:50
rm_you|Ikkicondunno how they'll look on the n800 tho17:50
GeneralAntillesGreat. :D17:50
GeneralAntillesRecompiled so it'll do 7 levels.17:50
GeneralAntillesCool sutff.17:51
rm_you|Ikkiconi can't get to the build machine from here easily17:51
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GeneralAntillesJust need to source to the one with the volume slider. :P17:51
rm_you|Ikkiconsunday ;/17:52
rm_you|Ikkiconcant get to it17:52
rm_you|Ikkiconit's behind the campus firewall17:53
GeneralAntillesSounds fine. :D17:53
GeneralAntillesHow's the con?17:53
dererkmorning GeneralAntilles :D17:53
rm_you|Ikkiconfun :)17:53
rm_you|Ikkiconget to talk to mooki from Dominic Deegan today :)17:54
dererksurprisingly, I can't force local dns resolving to use another IP than the one it does resolv my dns... so I can't still use repository.maemo.org17:55
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pupnik"How does it work?"18:05
pupnik"Ehm ahm.. I know not, my liege."18:06
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felipecmencoder what?18:14
johnxI dunno. ask him18:15
* johnx shrugs18:15
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K-Foxis it possible to convert files to console mode on winxp18:15
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felipecK-Fox: what is console mode?18:16
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K-Foxdos mode18:16
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johnxK-Fox, yes, but it's not necessary18:16
* felipec scratches his head18:17
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johnxfelipec, he's asking if it's possible to convert videos on the command line in windows xp using mencoder18:17
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felipecjohnx: ohhhh18:18
* johnx should major in internet languages18:18
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GnutoN810hey johnx18:20
* johnx should actually go to bed soon though18:20
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johnxK-Fox, look up "tablet-encode" if you're trying to encode video for the N8x018:21
johnx'night all18:21
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K-Foxhaha ok18:21
GnutoN810johnx, night18:23
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fysais it possible to extend a virtual desktop beyond the native screen resolution?18:30
fysawith our X server?18:30
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pupnik810<suihkulokki> people drool on thin things19:22
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lcuk_2pupnik, get a raincoat for your 810 then19:26
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elbthere's a pistol company that makes carry pistols which are quite thin (.90", give or take), and they've been running ads in magazines that say "Thin is Sexy", with a model holding the pistol19:28
elbthat's the first thing I thought of ;-)19:29
elbthey have it on their front page, even19:29
lcuk_2it seems really strange to have gunstores and websites like that.19:32
lcuk_2here in the uk i think only farmers are allowed guns (im joking i know theres more)19:32
GeneralAntillesUK is fail.19:34
GeneralAntilleselb, for the pocket-pistol range, Keltec is a lot cooler. :D19:35
elbno, it's not19:35
lcuk_2nahhh, uk isnt FAIL, its diabolical and run by numpties, but you could say that about any country19:35
elbthe Kel-Tec is *smaller* -- but they're pretty crappy19:35
elbwhereas the Kahr is an extremely well-engineered and precisely-built pistol19:35
elbcomparing the two is like comparing a Gremlin and a Jaguar ;-)19:35
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GeneralAntillesHave you had an opportunity to try a PLR-16?19:37
GeneralAntilles(not exactly a pocket pistol :D)19:37
elbI've handled one, but never fired it19:37
elbthey seem okay19:37
GeneralAntillesPure insanity19:37
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GeneralAntillesStick a big comp on the end and a red-dot.19:37
elbit's basically their SU-16 on a pistol grip19:37
GeneralAntillesAbout the loudest thing I've ever heard at a range. <_<19:38
elbheh you should hear a SOCOM-1619:38
elb.308 out of a 16 1/2" compensated barrel is ... loud19:38
pupnikno scratches yet (knock on wood)19:40
pupnika nice compact hardcase would be good19:41
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elbyeah, a thin aluminum case that was just large enough for the 810 would be very nice19:42
GeneralAntillesPlastic, but.19:42
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lcuk_2still talking about gun boxes or 810?19:48
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pupnikwhy can't i paste into vnc :(20:08
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Naviseparate clipboard20:08
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pupnikdo i need to run some kde-esque clipboard manager on the client machine?20:08
pupnikvnc preferences claims it is forwarding clipboard both ways20:09
pupniki am using a two-button mouse (l+r) for paste20:09
GeneralAntillesLaser keyboards suck.20:10
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hahloGeneralAntilles: did you managed to boot debian?20:10
NaviHow is it?20:10
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GeneralAntillesLittle rough around the edges.20:11
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NaviI'm out for a bit.20:11
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pupnikok Navi - just had to run vncconfig within the remote vnc session20:16
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nocelicHi, I have been trying to access for some time already, but the site seems to be down all the time. Is there maybe an alternate download site for Ruby-Maemo, or someone here who could provide the .deb?20:19
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crevetorhi, is there still a problem with ?20:21
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pupnikany complex undertaking has problems20:22
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crevetorinfobot deb20:27
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, deb is unofficial, all warrantees void,
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pupnikthat needs a more descriptive title20:28
pupnikwhat t.f. does it do?20:28
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* lcuk kicks xchat for windows20:30
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lcukdoes xchat maemo expire?20:31
lcuk(as in 30 day trial)20:32
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GeneralAntillesIsn't xchat GPL?20:32
pupnikyes it is20:33
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pupniki sense a soul infected by the Windows disease20:33
* pupnik gets holy water 20:34
GeneralAntillesThere is but one path to absolution, sinner!20:34
* RS_Asleep gets out the soap and brush20:34
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lcuka pre-built exe for windows requires "registration" for use over 30 days.20:34
Sho_pupnik: The Windows builds of X-Chat are payware20:34
lcuki can rebuild it if i like20:34
GeneralAntillesThat's so lame.20:35
lcuktho they say the road is long and tricky20:35
lcukthey also say there are some extra bits included...20:35
GeneralAntillesSomebody should go take away their computers.20:35
RS_AsleepDoes it depend on what GPS you are using too? After all, if it's a bit wonky you could end up in a field instead of a Little Chef...20:35
GeneralAntillesthey don't deserve them anymore.20:35
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lcukits not a big deal, knowing its gpl and available - ill just go and stalk dc++ and grab a pre-built unlocked version20:37
lcuki like it - all the available versions call it cracked :D20:38
lcukillicit xchat20:38
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pupnikSho_: it appears to me that there is someone asking $20 for his builds of xchat, and i fail to see how he is in compliance with GPL20:39
lcukno, theres nothing wrong with asking for a precompiled version20:39
lcukthey are compliant because they supply the source20:40
lcuktand if i wanted i could build it on win system, but since 99% of windows systems dont have a compiler toolchain it is more work20:40
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Sho_pupnik: Nothing in the GPL says you can't ask for money. All it says is that you're required to respond to requests to make sources available when distributing.20:42
lcuk_2i be a pirate20:42
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Sho_pupnik: I.e. it's perfectly in compliance with the GPL, and I can understand it in some way -- I wouldn't want to work on Windows software/builds in my spare/unpaid time either20:43
* lcuk_2 grabs a bottle of rum and a buxom wench20:43
pupniki stand corrected Sho_20:45
lcuk_2besides windows users make up a large percentage, and most of us dont mind paying for software.20:45
lcuk_2i have no objections to supporting a closed source program if it does what i want, however if its gpl and other builds are available i might as well take advantage :)20:46
* lcuk_2 swings his cutless20:46
lcuk_2with an a20:47
pupnikI personally don't see any reason to pay for standard tools like an OS, editor or IRC program.   These are essentially solutions to problems that essentially only need to be solved once, and therefore these domains gain the most from a free, open-source model.20:48
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pupnikThis is quite distinct from a creative work like a video game.  The essence of this is a creative work that doesn't function as a universal tool, but as a work of art.  These have high development cost, and limited (usually) time to make a ROI.  For these I do like to pay.20:49
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elbI think the open source world has proven that all of those admit multiple solutions ;-)20:50
elbOS has converged farther than the others, but the BSDs are still going; text editor and IRC client are not even similar to converged ;-)20:51
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pupnikSho_ the xchat 'shareware' issue is perhaps not so clear
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Sho_pupnik: If he has done modifications he doesn't release the sources for, he's in violation20:55
Sho_pupnik: But I gotta be careful not to say evil things, because I work on a competitor :)20:56
pupnikyes i seem to recall allowing for remuneration for 'distribution costs'.  and source has to be available upon request - not necessarily shipped with every binary20:56
pupnik  Copyleft Capitalism: GPLv3 and the Future of Software Innovation20:59
elbyou can charge as much as you want for GPL'd software20:59
elbyou just can't keep the next guy from giving it to whoever he wants for free20:59
elbX-Chat is a bit of a different story, if I remember correctly, it has some sort of dual license thing going on21:00
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pupnikWhat if I make changes, release a binary for money, and supply my patches as obfusticated code?21:01
elbthe GPL precludes obfuscated code21:02
elbit has a clause about "preferred form"21:02
elb"The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it."21:03
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lcuk_2what if the mods come from a modified gcc?21:08
lcuk_2sure the user could request it but how would you know?21:08
elbif you're talking about a ken-style hack ... it's possible to what-if ad absurdum, of course21:10
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hrwobfuscated code is still code21:11
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elbbut it's not "the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it"21:11
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hrwelb: I take gpl app, modify and then give you binary. I have to give you also modifications21:11
hrwelb: no info how readable those modifications need to be21:12
elbyes, there IS INFO21:12
elbthe sentence I just quoted is from the GPL21:12
elb... people should read the GPL before speculating upon it21:12
hrwelb: what if I always write obfuscated code?21:12
elbthen that is the preferred form, assuming the obfuscated code is what you personally edit21:12
elband we're back to ad absurdum21:13
hrwhopefully I am not quite programmer21:13
pupnikthanks for the discussion, then the whining about Zed's work and fees is quite pointless, since anyone can do the same build and release binaries for free.21:15
hrwI mostly work on packaging software, patching it21:15
pH5lardman_: yay, my hacked "pcm4" dsptask just blurted out the first sounds :)21:16
shackanpH5: wooohoo21:16
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* pupnik hands pH5 two ramen packets21:30
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lardman_pH5: cool, what did you hack to get it working?22:22
pH5I should be embarassed to show that to anyone yet, but it's basically what pcm2.o does in some parts (or at least something similar)22:24
lardman_good stuff22:25
lardman_so we can now output audio data from the dsp directly22:26
lardman_back in a while, need to switch to WinXP for a bit :(22:31
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Tama^2pH5: I am interested, what is you goal? :)22:32
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pH5Tama^2: helping lardman|gone with the dsp-tremor codec so we can play oggs directly with the DSP.22:34
* pupnik cheers22:35
Tama^2..and in the process you will figure out how to DMA audio to the codec directly from the DSP, right?22:35
pupnik(and they ate one of robin's minstrels)22:35
pH5pupnik's idea to port opl3 synth emulation to the DSP is neat, too.22:35
pH5although that's probably a whole lot of work.22:36
* Tama^2 think of a SID and MOD player ;)22:36
pupniki can think of three projects, no four, no five that could use that22:36
pupnikdosbox, scummvm, freesci, exult, pentagram22:36
pupnikmany more i haven't thought of atm22:36
pupnikand for the ogg playback, well there are tons22:37
Tama^2opl3 is a FM synth used on the sound blaster, right?22:37
pupnikyes opl2, opl3 are chipset types i think created by yamaha22:37
Tama^2by yamaha22:37
pupnikoh and mame22:38
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Tama^2is pH5  work based on reverse eng or on some existing code?22:42
Tama^2I would not mind being involved if I can get my hands on a TI CC license22:42
pupnik  here's the gpl'd version of adplug btw pH5 - adlib opl2 / opl3 emulator22:43
bedboii have an english question: should i write  "something allows something else be performed" or "something allows something else to be performed"?22:44
pH5Tama^2: RE of pcm2.o, the old osso-dsp-headers-0.1 and the gst-plugins-dsp0.1 sources.22:44
bedboimy advisor always use the first one, but I always used the second one22:44
pH5I think I have all the links at
pupnikbedboi: 'to be' is more modern but the other is also used, i think22:45
bedboipupnik: thanks.22:46
bedboii always seen "to be"22:46
pH5pupnik: cool. did you look at some different implementations? I saw that dosbox also has a synth included.22:46
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Tama^2thanks ph522:46
pupnikyes there are a lot of projects, and many are reverting back to the one i linked due to gpl issues22:47
pupnikbut there's a more fixed-poitn implementation which is tempting but i have to spend more time on this22:47
pupnikat the moment it seems that forcing sb2 emulation gives a significant boost to dosbox speed22:48
pH5very good, so that would be a good choice to base at least the API on. fixed point is crucial, of course.22:48
pupnikbut it's truly horrible, horrible to enable sb emulation in dosbox right now22:48
pupniksomebody with mad skillz needs to sit down for a few weeks analyzing dosbox :)22:49
pupnikwe're talking dropping from ~1600 cycles on a N8x0 to 300-600 cycles when sound blaster is enabled (depending on game)22:50
pupnikso anyway.  hopefully in 2008 the gods will smile on us and give the dosbox team an arm coder paladin22:52
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Tama^2I'm trying to download the DSP toolchain linked from the wiki but it is not available anymore23:12
Tama^2I tried looking for it on TI's website but I cannot find it23:13
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pH5looks like ti rearranged their site. I hope the toolchain didn't vanish23:20
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fysaanyone using synergy with OS2008?23:24
fysa(and KDE?)23:25
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lcuk_2on native maemo screen, which SDL driver is selected to run with?  (I havent got device with me to test and google foo aint working)23:51
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