| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully the end of our server troubles is near. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, I don't get it | 00:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Work is underway to fix the servers. | 00:01 |
| dererk | ah | 00:01 |
| dererk | great to hear that | 00:01 |
| lcuk_3 | now, since i have been poking at this for the last hour and can't get it working... | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just be glad you weren't here for the initial OS2008 beta release. <_< | 00:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Remember, remember the 26th of November. . . . | 00:03 |
| lcuk_3 | could someone try and test a small compile for 810 chinook armel in scratchbox | 00:03 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, where this problems on that time? | 00:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | tablets-dev, Extras, and Garage were basically unreachable for two weeks. | 00:04 |
| dererk | omg | 00:04 |
| dererk | <ironic> nice work Nokia! | 00:04 |
| dererk | </ironic :P> | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | So thousands of people were trying to get the OS2008 release and mostly couldn't | 00:04 |
| lcuk_3 | i was speaking to pupnik yesterday and he said https://garage.maemo.org/projects/n770demos/ would be a good base program but i cant get it going | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | those that did couldn't install any software. | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it was fun. | 00:05 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, it's soooo patetic! | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Definitely | 00:05 |
| lcuk_3 | i grabbed all the source from svn and have kinda sussed how to compile it, but it wont link :( | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | The poor maemo guys are way understaffed, underfunded, and undersupported. | 00:05 |
| dererk | lcuk_3, :// | 00:05 |
| dererk | Yeah! that's so true in opensource community :/ | 00:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The glacial movement of big corporate entities doesn't help matters, either. | 00:06 |
| dererk | and with the excellent work the did/do/will still be doing! | 00:06 |
| dererk | it's so blameful... | 00:06 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, i fully agree | 00:06 |
| pupnik | lcuk_3: if you copy/paste your errors to something like pastebin.ca I might be able to help | 00:07 |
| lcuk_3 | ok pup, thx | 00:08 |
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| ds3 | any word on if a OS2008HE for the 770 is underway? | 00:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | It is. | 00:10 |
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| lcuk_3 | http://pastebin.ca/893123 i had to make changes to n770-triangels.c to get it compiling (code bug), but the rest is as i obtained from cvs | 00:10 |
| ds3 | is there a page on it? | 00:11 |
| lcuk_3 | it compiled all modules the first time i ran it but failed at same point each time | 00:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's an announcement on maemo.org somewhere. | 00:11 |
| ds3 | okay | 00:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sure google would turn up something. | 00:11 |
| dererk | google SU-18_2007HACKER_4.2007.46-3_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin | 00:11 |
| dererk | (it's the latest I think) | 00:11 |
| ds3 | think a 770 would be nicely recycled into a CAR pc type app | 00:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | ds3, ebook reader and media remote. | 00:11 |
| * dererk sighs... he istill using it as _new_ in .ar | 00:12 | |
| pupnik | nice error lcuk_3 :) never saw that | 00:12 |
| lcuk_3 | lol | 00:12 |
| lcuk_3 | great! | 00:12 |
| pupnik | this buildpp.pl is also strange | 00:12 |
| ds3 | GeneralAntilles: I want a CarPC anyways | 00:12 |
| dererk | 15' minutes to target | 00:12 |
| lcuk_3 | yes, there is no compile/make | 00:12 |
| ds3 | biggest hurdle for what I want is a reliable USB host mode on the 770 | 00:13 |
| lcuk_3 | its not a simple little thing, the perl mod compiles whatevers in the subfolders | 00:13 |
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| dererk | please no! | 00:13 |
| ds3 | that's also the reason why the 770 is superior to the N800 (lack of a bracket covering it and the location of the jacks is on the bottom | 00:13 |
| * dererk suffered the worse day of the year with perl today | 00:13 | |
| lcuk_3 | all i wanted was a simple base progr with standard build options so i could see how it all went together and start coding rather than faffing | 00:13 |
| Jaffa | Woohoo, USB host on my N810 using the standard cable from Nokia, a USB female/female adapter, a 1GB thumb drive and the poking of a /sys device. Open File Manager: bingo :-) | 00:14 |
| pupnik | lcuk_3: well as that is pretty non-standard i'd say 'meh' and move on to something else | 00:14 |
| ds3 | Jaffa: 1G is such small thing to have as a thumb drive! | 00:14 |
| lcuk_3 | jaffa, its nice isnt it :) tho my keyboard crashes nokia if i press keys from different segments of the board - i think it takes the current too high | 00:15 |
| Jaffa | One from work | 00:15 |
| ds3 | 1G thumb drive don't typically have a good storage:volume ratio compared to say a 16G SDHC card | 00:15 |
| * Jaffa shrugs. It's small. It's free. | 00:16 | |
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| ds3 | oh it is the storage:cost ratio here hehe | 00:16 |
| Redline` | lipoly isn't the future. it has a lower cycle count are typically are more fragile. the future will be the LiIon batteries that use nanowires. | 00:17 |
| Redline` | a little late in the convo, but I thought I'd put my two cents in. :P | 00:17 |
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| lcuk_3 | you mean the super capacitors :) | 00:17 |
| Redline` | no. | 00:17 |
| Redline` | super caps are already here. | 00:17 |
| ds3 | fuel cell cartridges | 00:18 |
| Redline` | http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html | 00:18 |
| * Jaffa needs to find a cheap place to get a Linksys USB100M in the UK for an Ethernet enabled N810 | 00:18 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I like fuel cell. | 00:18 |
| dererk | lol | 00:19 |
| ds3 | now if someone would make a nice little one using ethanol/propanol/methanol | 00:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, really, really, small internal combustion engines would work for me, too. | 00:19 |
| elb | the real shine for lipo is weight/power | 00:19 |
| elb | all the RC aircraft stuff is moving to it | 00:19 |
| Redline` | yeah, the weight factor is nice. | 00:19 |
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| Redline` | it'd be nice if they could incorporate nanowires in lipoly. | 00:20 |
| ds3 | small ICE? ones that generate more heat then the ARM processor it powers? =) | 00:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hell yeah! | 00:20 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, small, like a "small bunch of fire" ? :P | 00:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then use that heat to manufacture more power. | 00:20 |
| ds3 | elb: the problem there is a little 'oops' with charging and you have a big problem | 00:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | tiny steam generators. | 00:21 |
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| dererk | loool | 00:21 |
| lcuk_3 | output from new AMD processor: hot coffee | 00:21 |
| pupnik | developers need to be careful what Section: they use - polluting the app manager with misspelled or stupid sections is bad bad bad | 00:21 |
| Jaffa | yup | 00:21 |
| Jaffa | yet another reason to have gatekeepers | 00:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | We should fit all developers with tasers. | 00:22 |
| Blafasel | THe app manager is bad bad bad? ;) | 00:22 |
| dererk | hahah | 00:22 |
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| dererk | 7' to target :D | 00:22 |
| pupnik | well for me, user/Games is not hard to remember | 00:22 |
| dererk | pupnik, hehe | 00:22 |
| pupnik | ergh, others suggest lowercase user/games :( | 00:24 |
| pupnik | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_4-0_porting_guide.html | 00:24 |
| Navi | pew pew | 00:25 |
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| perrito666 | good afternoon | 00:25 |
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| dererk | perrito666, hey! :D | 00:26 |
| perrito666 | dererk: you are everywhere :D | 00:26 |
| dererk | Like trash :D | 00:26 |
| dererk | ehm, I meant, god :P | 00:26 |
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| perrito666 | dererk: you don't happent to know how to suspend a n800 don't you? | 00:27 |
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| * pupnik hands perrito666 some twine | 00:27 | |
| dererk | perrito666, I don't :S | 00:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | perrito666, the watchdog will kill it if you do. | 00:27 |
| dererk | flasher v0.8.1 (Jan 5 2007) | 00:28 |
| dererk | Suitable USB device not found, waiting | 00:28 |
| dererk | grrrrrrrr | 00:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Is the device on? | 00:28 |
| perrito666 | pupnik: that sounds strongly like tea+wine | 00:28 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, yes | 00:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Booted to a desktop? | 00:28 |
| dererk | dmesg | grep nokia -> scsi 6:0:0:0: Direct-Access Nokia 770 0308 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 | 00:28 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, yeas | 00:28 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, yes * | 00:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Turn it off. | 00:28 |
| dererk | oh | 00:28 |
| dererk | ok | 00:28 |
| perrito666 | GeneralAntilles: so I have to boot and shut down this thing each time? | 00:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | perrito666, just lock it and put it in offline mode. | 00:29 |
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| dererk | perrito666, my quite-used n770 when blank-screening lasts about 12 hours | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | dererk, turn it off, plug it in, make sure flasher is waiting, then turn it on. | 00:29 |
| perrito666 | dererk: ouch | 00:29 |
| dererk | perrito666, yours might last even longer :P | 00:29 |
| perrito666 | I mean wow | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | 7-12 days idle is normal. | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | assuming no runaway processes and offline mode. | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | 1-3-ish days connected to wifi | 00:30 |
| dererk | OMG! | 00:31 |
| * perrito666 has symptoms of needing to go out of his office | 00:31 | |
| perrito666 | GeneralAntilles: nice | 00:31 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, no luck either | 00:31 |
| dererk | :S | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Generally speaking, perrito666, standby is kinda pointless for these devices. | 00:31 |
| dererk | ah | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | ARM is incredibly power-efficient. | 00:31 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, great! | 00:31 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, (did work) | 00:31 |
| dererk | <GeneralAntilles> ARM is incredibly power-efficient. <-- I see that! | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're intended to be left on 24/7. | 00:32 |
| perrito666 | GeneralAntilles: I did know that, but I wasn't sure how power saving would this gadget go by locking it | 00:32 |
| dererk | pretty nice | 00:32 |
| pupnik | i have to give credit to the maemo.org people for the great tutorials | 00:32 |
| Redline` | in offline mode, the osso-rtcomm/chat app eats CPU trying to find out if the network is up. either that or it's constantly trying to register your accounts. | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Basically as power-saving as it gets. | 00:33 |
| perrito666 | GeneralAntilles: :) | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | wifi is incredibly efficient, too. | 00:33 |
| pupnik | agree GeneralAntilles | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | set the device down for a few seconds without stuff running and it's about as idle as it'll get. | 00:34 |
| Redline` | ever since I put on the new rtcomm package, my batt doesn't last more than two and one-half days. so yesterday I disabled the accounts. batt status was normal with 8 days standby. | 00:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Redline`, it _is_ a beta release. :P | 00:34 |
| dererk | yeah, I agreed too | 00:34 |
| perrito666 | GeneralAntilles: cut me some slack :D my last portable device was a zire31 | 00:34 |
| Redline` | yeah. | 00:34 |
| Redline` | I know this. :P | 00:34 |
| dererk | It does not even get hot! | 00:34 |
| Redline` | My statement was more of a warning. :P | 00:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | perrito666, I'm just edumacating. ;) | 00:34 |
| perrito666 | GeneralAntilles: it is good to know | 00:35 |
| derf | I mean, I walked arouned Tokyo using maemo-mapper and BT GPS for 14 hours the other day, and the battery lasted the whole time. | 00:35 |
| perrito666 | I really got lost when I didn't found a "go to sleep" button or link | 00:35 |
| derf | The N810 seems to do much better than the N800. | 00:35 |
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| perrito666 | derf: cool | 00:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | derf, probably more of a configuration issue. | 00:36 |
| Redline` | derf, that's because of the BT GPS that you use on the N800 | 00:36 |
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| Redline` | whereas, the n810 has it on board. | 00:36 |
| derf | Redline`: No, I was using the same BT GPS on the N810. | 00:36 |
| derf | I've yet to get the internal one to work. | 00:36 |
| Redline` | really? | 00:36 |
| derf | Really. | 00:36 |
| derf | Best I ever got was 4 satellites. | 00:36 |
| perrito666 | derf: I really wanted to go for a 810 but the relation availability/price on .ar is not really nice | 00:37 |
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| derf | GeneralAntilles: Possibly... there's less crap installed since I just got it. | 00:37 |
| dererk | Great! flashing! | 00:37 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, Tak, lcuk_3 thanks for all the fish! | 00:37 |
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| lcuk_3 | dererk, STOP QUICK, YOU MADE MY SCREEN GO BLANK | 00:37 |
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| dererk | lcuk_3, loooooool | 00:38 |
| dererk | lcuk_3, hahaha | 00:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's not really enough different hardware-wise for a really major difference in battery life to be possible. | 00:38 |
| lcuk_3 | is it same model battery? | 00:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 00:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | But the capacity really isn't any different. | 00:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Basically a change in shape. | 00:39 |
| lcuk_3 | that could make all the difference, its not just capacity, but the way a specific battery handles drain and charge possibly? | 00:40 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, quick question :) | 00:41 |
| dererk | flashing utility says "flash completed" | 00:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did you do -R ? | 00:42 |
| dererk | but my device is still on "booting screen" | 00:42 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, crap... INSTALL file didn't said that :S | 00:42 |
| dererk | s/crap/damn/ | 00:42 |
| infobot | dererk meant: GeneralAntilles, damn... INSTALL file didn't said that :S | 00:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just run: flasher-3.0 -R | 00:42 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, now? | 00:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | -R for restart | 00:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 00:42 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, :D | 00:42 |
| dererk | oh | 00:43 |
| dererk | same kernel booting now :S | 00:43 |
| Redline` | anyone using a class6 sd card as their boot mmc? | 00:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yes, Redline`, though not as primary. | 00:44 |
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| perrito666 | ok gtg, thanks for your help :D | 00:45 |
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| Redline` | is the bootup/app loading time worth the investment to get a class6? | 00:45 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, Thanks again | 00:45 |
| dererk | Now flashing is completed | 00:45 |
| dererk | :D | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Generally speaking, a 150x SD card is probably faster than a class 6 card | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | but, no, you wont really notice the speed difference booting from SD. | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | SD is just my backup/Debian partitions. | 00:46 |
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| Redline` | see that's my experience, but another co-worker said that his boots up faster with his SD card. | 00:46 |
| Redline` | I just really didn't see a diff. | 00:46 |
| pupnik | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/making_application_packages.html aha there are valid subsections | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Placebo. | 00:47 |
| Redline` | heh | 00:47 |
| dererk | Oh, nice look&&feel the HE :D | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Find and install the Plankton theme. | 00:49 |
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| pupnik | ls -1 /scratchbox/...../projects |wc -l | 00:51 |
| dererk | default is a dark blue&&black | 00:51 |
| dererk | is that? | 00:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | OS2008 has been the only ITOS release so far to not come with an horrifyingly ugly default theme selection. | 00:51 |
| pupnik | 178 | 00:51 |
| dererk | ohhhhh, I love this new version! | 00:52 |
| * dererk is now happy ^.^ | 00:52 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Default on OS2007 is "Adria" | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it's ugly. :P | 00:52 |
| dererk | let me check which am i | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | If it's blue and black | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | it's Adria. | 00:53 |
| dererk | oh | 00:53 |
| dererk | yeas, Adria | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plankton: http://mg.pov.lt/osso-xterm-buttons1.png | 00:53 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, I'll follow your advice | 00:53 |
| dererk | checking | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/12pt-hildon-theme-plankton/ | 00:53 |
| steel | does anyone know how to persuade maemo mapper to use the built in GPS on the N810? | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's also a 14pt for the wimpy blind folks. | 00:53 |
| dererk | I _love_ this new feature of "darking" screen | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | and a regular 18pt for the really blind folks. | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | steel, Bluetooth | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | no MAC. | 00:54 |
| dererk | jajaja | 00:54 |
| dererk | s/j/h/g | 00:54 |
| infobot | dererk meant: hahaha | 00:54 |
| dererk | thanks infobot | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | 18pt: http://tigert.1g.fi/blog-files/n800-theme/ | 00:55 |
| pupnik | compared to most user generated themes, the nokia themes are all good | 00:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, lies. :P | 00:55 |
| dererk | pupnik, ehmmm, partially :P | 00:55 |
| dererk | default ones are scaring :P | 00:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plankton and the Nuvo series were both much better than the defaults. | 00:55 |
| steel | GeneralAntilles: working now, many thanks | 00:55 |
| dererk | oh, I died :) | 00:55 |
| dererk | hardware keyboard control | 00:55 |
| dererk | i died of happiness | 00:56 |
| dererk | :) | 00:56 |
| pupnik | Nokia themes don't break the tablet. Nuvo does. | 00:56 |
| dererk | I used Nuvo, good one indeed | 00:56 |
| dererk | But when chatting, colors dark the text | 00:56 |
| pupnik | Otherwise i think it's great | 00:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | What in the world did Nuvo break? | 00:56 |
| dererk | unless on my old firm | 00:56 |
| ds3 | i am surprised how well os2008 works with fingers (instead of a stylus) | 00:56 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, in my case (with the old firm), it make chatting text unreadable | 00:57 |
| pupnik | a long list of things GeneralAntilles. I don't have names for all the regions. Icons and bootscreen also. | 00:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Huh | 00:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | I used Nuvo for a long time. | 00:57 |
| pupnik | konttori will be receiving screenshots | 00:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Never had any problem. | 00:57 |
| pupnik | that's the nature of things. problems don't always appear consistently | 00:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plankton looks better anyway. | 00:58 |
| dererk | Which is the default "lock code" now on the latest HE firm? | 00:58 |
| pupnik | nuvoblack is my favorite. no more ugly white border around xterm | 00:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | 12345 | 00:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | That doesn't change with firmware flashes, though. | 00:58 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, Incorrect :S | 00:58 |
| dererk | oh | 00:58 |
| dererk | thanks for that tip | 00:58 |
| dererk | :) | 00:58 |
| dererk | yeap they don't | 00:59 |
| dererk | XD | 00:59 |
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| dererk | oh men, I'm exploting of happiness with this new release :D | 00:59 |
| dererk | (not literarly :) ) | 00:59 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, again, many thanks pal | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sure. | 01:00 |
| * elb laughs at all this talk about font sizes, as if the tablet's fonts aren't completely assed beyond all usefulness | 01:01 | |
| elb | I have no idea what it is about people that they cannot get it through their heads that font sizes MEAN something, and X server DPIs MEAN something | 01:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Assed? | 01:01 |
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| elb | yes -- an 18pt font on the tablet should, by all rights, be exactly 18pt high | 01:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, right. | 01:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | That. :P | 01:02 |
| elb | but some genius decided to totally lie about the display DPI | 01:02 |
| elb | I would blame Nokia, but ... X.org no longer properly honors DisplaySize in recent versions | 01:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably easier than actually fixing things to make it work right. | 01:02 |
| elb | so the disease is not theirs alone | 01:02 |
| elb | no, it's Really Easy to get right -- just tell the X display what its dot pitch *really is*, and pango gets it right | 01:03 |
| * GeneralAntilles is assuming there's a logical reason they choose not to do it that way. | 01:03 | |
| elb | then if you set your font to "9pt" or whatever on every machine yo uhave ... it's the same physical size on the screen, on every machine you have | 01:03 |
| elb | general ignorance and stupidity, I suspect | 01:03 |
| elb | as with most other recent X11 blunders | 01:04 |
| johnx | elb, Xomap has -dpi 96 passed to it :P | 01:04 |
| elb | johnx: I saw that it does in scratchbox ... does it on the tablet, as well? | 01:04 |
| Redline` | steel, GPSd was being used to allow onboard GPS use with maemo-mapper. but according to http://www.latheofdreams.com/2007/12/n810-travelling-with-the-car-m.html 2.2 automagically start it (provided it's installed). | 01:04 |
| johnx | elb, yup :D | 01:04 |
| elb | lame | 01:04 |
| elb | so it IS nokia stupidity, and not the X server | 01:04 |
| johnx | traditionally the XUL parts of firefox do not cope well with dpi's that are far away from 96 | 01:05 |
| johnx | I think the rendering engine part gets it right...so I'm kind of at a loss to explain it | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | If only everything were clear and logical. | 01:06 |
| johnx | I'd settle for a couple things being clear and logical | 01:06 |
| elb | that's unfortunate ... because it's closer to 220x202 DPI | 01:06 |
| johnx | yeah | 01:07 |
| elb | based on my quick calculations with a scale | 01:07 |
| elb | if it reported 200dpi, fonts would be Pretty Darn Close to correct | 01:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | 225dpi for N800 | 01:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Little higher for N810, I think. | 01:07 |
| elb | I think the displays are identical | 01:07 |
| johnx | N810's is a little smaller, right? | 01:07 |
| elb | I just measured with a scale and di the math (on my n810) and got the above numbers | 01:08 |
| elb | johnx: I was under the impression that the *housing* is smaller, but the display is identical | 01:08 |
| elb | but I've never held an n800, so I don't know | 01:08 |
| pupnik | N810 display is a bit smaller than 770 at least | 01:08 |
| johnx | I don't know either | 01:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think the display is smaller. | 01:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I don't actually know. | 01:09 |
| * pupnik goes to redo some horrible sound effects | 01:09 | |
| GeneralAntilles | There's not a lot of room around the edge of the N800's LCD for a 4.15" to 4.1" change. | 01:09 |
| elb | ahh a more precise calculation gives me 226.5x227.5 | 01:09 |
| johnx | yeah...I would assume square pixels given that it's an LCD | 01:10 |
| lcdd | often it looks as if font hinting only works properly at 96 dpi | 01:10 |
| elb | and the actual *pixel surface* size I measure at 4 34/64 x 2 7/64 | 01:10 |
| elb | sorry, 3 34/64 | 01:10 |
| lcdd | so that 90 or 98 dpi, while correct, look ugly | 01:10 |
| elb | with a diagonal of 4 7/64 | 01:11 |
| johnx | I blame windows for the ridiculous DPI situation... | 01:11 |
| elb | johnx: yes, the difference from square is quite possibly from parallax and my measurement accuracy | 01:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Windows is such a wonderfully convenient scapegoat. | 01:12 |
| elb | and yet, it really has done so much damage | 01:13 |
| jeff1f | How so? | 01:13 |
| elb | at one time, macs actually *had* 72dpi screens, giving them 1pt = 1px | 01:13 |
| elb | jeff1f: it's Really Really Dumb about its display characteristics | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | . . . because most everything is actually its fault. ;) | 01:14 |
| elb | going back to people having monitors for which they had no idea what numbers to enter ... so Microsoft started just making crap up | 01:14 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, IIRC the whole 96dpi thing actually originated in Windows... | 01:14 |
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| elb | to be fair, even modern displays mostly lie about their physical size in their probing craps | 01:15 |
| johnx | how modern? | 01:15 |
| * elb ponders fixing his Xomap invocation to see how badly it breaks | 01:15 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Do it. | 01:15 |
| johnx | Everything I've had for the last several years has worked just fine | 01:15 |
| elb | johnx: well ... find your newest display, fireup X11, and look at what the display tells it, and you tell me ;-) | 01:15 |
| johnx | elb, alright. I'm sitting at it right now. :) | 01:16 |
| elb | it's my experience that they're often off by several cm or more | 01:16 |
| * johnx finds tape measure... | 01:16 | |
| elb | (X11 reports in mm) | 01:16 |
| elb | yes, that's right -- it reports display size in mm and dot pitch in DPI | 01:16 |
| elb | Go Metrics Go! | 01:16 |
| dererk | Do you think using virtual paging to memory card is valuable? | 01:17 |
| johnx | correct down to the mm :P | 01:17 |
| elb | johnx: nice! | 01:17 |
| elb | who made it? | 01:17 |
| johnx | elb, Benq | 01:17 |
| johnx | but it's someone elses actual LCD panel I'm sure... | 01:17 |
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| elb | huh, DISPLAY_DPI is in /etc/osso-af-init/x-server.defs | 01:18 |
| johnx | dererk, yes, but remember that flash memory (aka SD cards) have a limited number of write cycles... | 01:18 |
| dererk | uhm, right | 01:18 |
| elb | the internal card shouldn't, right? | 01:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | ITOS's swappiness is quite low by default. | 01:18 |
| elb | because it's NOR and not NAND or whichever? | 01:19 |
| dererk | i didn't took that into account | 01:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | 770 in this case. | 01:19 |
| elb | oh | 01:19 |
| elb | yeah, I was thinking n810 | 01:19 |
| dererk | GeneralAntilles, you're right | 01:19 |
| elb | haha these fonts are HUGE | 01:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | dererk, with the amount of swapping that ITOS does, it's incredibly unlikely that you'll wear out a flash card before the end of its useful lifetime. | 01:19 |
| dererk | yes, you're right | 01:20 |
| dererk | I forgot it's quite slow at I/O'ing | 01:20 |
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| elb | yeah, boy, this messes EVERYTHING up | 01:22 |
| johnx | elb, sad :( | 01:22 |
| elb | a fixed theme would help | 01:22 |
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| elb | but inter-line spacing seems to be incorrect, as well | 01:22 |
| pupnik | i want better fonts for os2008 xterm | 01:23 |
| pupnik | that courier-like one is not so good | 01:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Terminus | 01:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd like to have Monaco 9, but I can't figure out how to turn off anti-aliasing for it. | 01:25 |
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| Blafasel | elb: Screenshots? For fun? | 01:28 |
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| LinuxCode | evening | 01:31 |
| LinuxCode | correct me if im wrong, but can it be skype for the N8x0 doesnt support video ? | 01:31 |
| LinuxCode | that* | 01:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Duh | 01:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gizmo for video. | 01:32 |
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| LinuxCode | gizmo does skype ? | 01:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 01:32 |
| LinuxCode | lol k | 01:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | But Skype is crappy and proprietary anyway. | 01:32 |
| LinuxCode | amsn does it | 01:32 |
| LinuxCode | i agree | 01:33 |
| LinuxCode | but me and my brother wanted to test it | 01:33 |
| LinuxCode | he lives in Germany | 01:33 |
| elb | Blafasel: change /etc/osso-af-init/x-server.defs to say DISPLAY_DPI=225, reboot, and see for yourself | 01:34 |
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| Blafasel | LinuxCode: Why don't you go for Gizmo then? | 01:42 |
| Blafasel | elb: Will try | 01:42 |
| LinuxCode | Blafasel, what does gizmo support ? | 01:42 |
| LinuxCode | Blafasel, mainly because my brother knows skype | 01:42 |
| Blafasel | SIP/Video | 01:42 |
| LinuxCode | hes on a mac | 01:42 |
| LinuxCode | ahh | 01:42 |
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| LinuxCode | interesting | 01:42 |
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| LinuxCode | is it p2p ? | 01:43 |
| Blafasel | No, but your brother is out of luck for video support (Mac) for now. | 01:43 |
| LinuxCode | k | 01:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Give it 2 months. | 01:43 |
| LinuxCode | well we were more curious really | 01:43 |
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| LinuxCode | see how the N810 handles it ;-} | 01:43 |
| Tama^2 | Hello | 01:43 |
| Blafasel | LinuxCode: Works quite well, though | 01:44 |
| LinuxCode | eveing Tama^2 | 01:44 |
| LinuxCode | Blafasel, sweet | 01:44 |
| Tama^2 | Ciao LinuxCode | 01:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gizmo is exactly like Skype, except open. | 01:44 |
| LinuxCode | GeneralAntilles, I gathered that | 01:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | So you can use it entirely with rtcomm | 01:44 |
| LinuxCode | I prefer sip | 01:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | No need for a bloaty 3rd party client. | 01:44 |
| LinuxCode | I prefer open standards ..which sip is | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gizmo is SIP. | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | and Jabber. | 01:45 |
| Blafasel | What's up with a ekiga port, btw_ | 01:45 |
| Tama^2 | Gizmo didn;t use to have encryption, does it now? | 01:45 |
| elb | why would Gizmo use SIP? | 01:45 |
| elb | (I'm not saying it doesn't; I just don't see why) | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why not? | 01:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it can work with whatever client you want to use it with? | 01:46 |
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| elb | I thought it used jabber for its session establishment | 01:46 |
| elb | jabber and SIP are really serving the same purpose | 01:46 |
| Blafasel | Nah | 01:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eh, I dunno. | 01:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | It works. | 01:47 |
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| Blafasel | They use Jabber for the IM stuff. Yes, SIP can support that as well | 01:47 |
| Blafasel | At least that's what I understood so far. | 01:47 |
| elb | that's not really relevant, here | 01:47 |
| elb | I thought Gizmo used jabber for presence and session establishment | 01:48 |
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| Blafasel | Like gtalk, just replacing jingle with <whatever>? | 01:48 |
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| elb | looks like it doesn't, its basic signaling is SIP | 01:50 |
| elb | actually, I can't tell, I'm seeing both | 01:50 |
| elb | maybe it really does use both | 01:50 |
| elb | which is ... interesting | 01:50 |
| Blafasel | Well, imo SIP is better supported in all those legacy voip clients, jabber the better choice for im (looking at miranda, sim, pidgin, trillian, kopete whatever) | 01:52 |
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| doc|work | you can use sip with rtcomm | 01:54 |
| doc|work | integrates with maemo | 01:54 |
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| TheFool | any canola devs/users around? | 02:03 |
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| TheFool | canola2 installed fine on my n770 but it wont start | 02:05 |
| jeff1f | If two people are using gtalk accounts, can they video chat with two different tablets? | 02:08 |
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| TheFool | I didn't think video chat was supported in any of the tablets gtalk clients | 02:09 |
| jeff1f | oh, just jabber? | 02:10 |
| flatface | Does anyone here know about the project where someone here was making a maemo youtube browser that didn't use the standard web browser/flash? | 02:11 |
| TheFool | jeff1f: nm, ignore me it seems gtalk has video support as well | 02:12 |
| flatface | (not uktube) | 02:12 |
| Blafasel | Hmpf. Tried installing rtcomm: Red Pill mode, d/l & install the installer, run it - nothing happens. Program manager starts and just spins like hell (doesn't react to anything, only flashes "Already working"). Rebooting the device and trying to disable red pill mode: Same error.. Is that a known problem? | 02:12 |
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| Ostebaronen | Hello people! | 02:21 |
| Ostebaronen | if there are any | 02:21 |
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| johnx | no people here. | 02:21 |
| johnx | we're all bots :P | 02:22 |
| Ostebaronen | heh | 02:22 |
| Ostebaronen | oh noes! | 02:22 |
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| Ostebaronen | Well I've got some issues with my N810 | 02:22 |
| Ostebaronen | the GPS wont lock on any satellites | 02:22 |
| elb | take it outside, and give it plenty of time | 02:22 |
| Ostebaronen | so it's only going to work outside? | 02:22 |
| elb | GPS units generally only work outside, yes | 02:23 |
| elb | in a window, if you're lucky | 02:23 |
| Ostebaronen | hmm, the Garmin Nüvi i tried worked fine at work | 02:23 |
| Ostebaronen | inside | 02:23 |
| elb | your n810 might work in that specific location, too, then | 02:23 |
| elb | GPS units typically do not work well or reliably indoors | 02:23 |
| Ostebaronen | though it didnt | 02:23 |
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| Ostebaronen | oh I see | 02:24 |
| Ostebaronen | well I'll try that in the morning, or when I wake up that is | 02:24 |
| elb | (handheld-type units, as the n810 is, don't exactly have fantastic antennae) | 02:24 |
| johnx | uhm, also some people think that a bug in some of the GPS software on the N810 might be causing slow lock-on times | 02:24 |
| johnx | but I don't know if that's confirmed yet... | 02:25 |
| elb | yeah, that was the "give it plenty of time" part | 02:25 |
| elb | *I* don't have that problem, but most people seem to | 02:25 |
| Ostebaronen | yeah I'm on the 1.0-25 leap year gpsd package | 02:25 |
| johnx | ah | 02:25 |
| elb | it should resolve itself in 5 or so minutes either way | 02:25 |
| pupnik | i'm amazed that gps receiver modules are so small now | 02:25 |
| elb | after the unit decides to totally ignore what gpsd is telling it ;-) | 02:25 |
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| johnx | Ostebaronen, well in that case just give it plenty of time for the first lock and also realize that the GPS chipset in the N810 is kind of lowend | 02:26 |
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| pupnik | and don't move it around while getting a lock, let it sit. | 02:26 |
| elb | I've not noticed that mattering for either my 810 or my Garmin | 02:26 |
| elb | every 810 lock I've made has been in the car | 02:27 |
| Ostebaronen | okay, well I might buy some bluetooth gps for it if im going to need it | 02:27 |
| elb | in any situation where you would realistically need a GPS, it's going to work fine | 02:27 |
| elb | if you're in a building, you probably know where you are ;-) | 02:27 |
| Ostebaronen | haha yeah | 02:27 |
| pupnik | i've walked from my house to the supermarket (16 minutes) holding the n810 in front of me without getting a lock | 02:27 |
| Ostebaronen | that is true | 02:27 |
| elb | and if you don't, you probably don't have globally oriented maps against which to compare your GPS position | 02:27 |
| elb | pupnik: something is wrong there, then | 02:28 |
| elb | pupnik: are you between high-rise buildings? | 02:28 |
| pupnik | walking through a typical german town. | 02:28 |
| elb | unfortunately, I've never been to Germany, so that means little to me ;-) | 02:29 |
| Ostebaronen | so I guess no | 02:29 |
| Tak | pupnik: is the supermarket located in a universe with noneuclidean geometry? | 02:29 |
| Ostebaronen | if its a town and not a city there isnt many hi-rise buildings | 02:29 |
| Ostebaronen | arrent* | 02:29 |
| elb | in Russia I had some trouble getting a lock in some situations (on my Garmin) moving around downtown, because satellites were flashing in and out of view due to building blockage | 02:29 |
| Ostebaronen | I've been to germany serveral times :P | 02:29 |
| elb | which seemed to confuse it | 02:29 |
| Ostebaronen | elb oh I see | 02:30 |
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| Ostebaronen | I was quite impressed | 02:33 |
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| Ostebaronen | so I decided to get a N810 | 02:33 |
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| LinuxCode | Ostebaronen, dont lie! | 02:38 |
| Ostebaronen | I need to ask this, how do i move programs in the menu from one category to the other? | 02:38 |
| LinuxCode | http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=cam_whore | 02:39 |
| LinuxCode | i seen your site | 02:39 |
| johnx | Ostebaronen, control panel > personalization > navigation > menu (?) | 02:39 |
| b0unc3 | Ostebaronen: throught the control panel | 02:39 |
| elb | Ostebaronen: in control panel | panels | 02:39 |
| elb | click "Organize" | 02:39 |
| johnx | s/menu/panel/g | 02:39 |
| infobot | johnx meant: Ostebaronen, control panel > personalization > navigation > panel (?) | 02:39 |
| johnx | eh, what elb said... | 02:39 |
| Ostebaronen | Ahh thanks! | 02:40 |
| elb | I made my menus about 100% more useful, there | 02:40 |
| johnx | I need to redo mine, with the goal of not having to scroll to reach anything I actually use... | 02:41 |
| Ostebaronen | ahh thanks | 02:41 |
| elb | by moving the crap that you can't get rid of on the *main* screen to less prominent places, and renaming/reorganizing Internet and ... whatever the third one was ... to more appropriate topics | 02:42 |
| elb | johnx: that's exactly what I did | 02:42 |
| johnx | I did it once, then reflashed :/ | 02:42 |
| elb | it doesn't back that up? | 02:42 |
| johnx | I did it in OS2007 and didn't restore my backup | 02:44 |
| elb | ahh | 02:44 |
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| Ostebaronen | hmm gotta think up some new folder names in the menu | 02:45 |
| Ostebaronen | and organize a little | 02:46 |
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| elb | I went with 'Information' and 'Media', if that's helpful at all | 02:47 |
| elb | I struggled to come up with appropriate categories | 02:47 |
| johnx | ah, information would be a good category | 02:48 |
| Ostebaronen | i have Internet, Multimedia, Tools, Office, Settings, Games (though this should be under multimedia) and Other | 02:49 |
| elb | yeah, I put fbreader, maemopad+, GPE calendar, the PDF reader, etc. there | 02:49 |
| elb | that's one more than fits on the first screen | 02:49 |
| elb | which I tried to avoid | 02:49 |
| johnx | I think I switched "Utilities" and "Settings" to "System" and "Tools" | 02:50 |
| b0unc3 | maybe... someone can share the modified menu file.... | 02:50 |
| johnx | then I moved filemanager, xterm and some other stuff to system | 02:50 |
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| Ostebaronen | I wish you could organise the contacts menu | 02:54 |
| elb | or just remove it entirely | 02:55 |
| elb | ;-) | 02:55 |
| Ostebaronen | yeah | 02:55 |
| johnx | for stuff in the main menu I settled on an "unused" category and put it at the bottom... | 02:55 |
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| Ostebaronen | where do you set password for the device? | 02:56 |
| Ostebaronen | oh there | 02:56 |
| Ostebaronen | nevermind | 02:57 |
| b0unc3 | guys, there is a vncviewer port for OS2008 ? | 02:58 |
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| Ostebaronen | yeah i tink i saw one in the applications manager | 02:58 |
| Ostebaronen | or somewhere on the maemo site | 02:58 |
| b0unc3 | yep... found it | 03:00 |
| Ostebaronen | oh well going to sleep | 03:01 |
| Ostebaronen | talk to you later, and thanks for the help so far | 03:01 |
| Ostebaronen | probably going to ask some questions tomorrow :> | 03:01 |
| johnx | sure | 03:01 |
| johnx | 'night | 03:01 |
| Ostebaronen | yeah good night | 03:02 |
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| pupnik | anybody want to code a mouse frontend for dosbox? | 03:11 |
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| pupnik | 1 FPS in TES: Arena :) | 03:17 |
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| j0tt | mouse (touchscreen) support in dosbox would be really nice | 03:23 |
| j0tt | has anyone ever used pocketdos? they claim that they have a solution - question is how practical it is and how it's done ;) | 03:24 |
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| j0tt | i've some ideas but most sound like a big hack :/ | 03:24 |
| pupnik | yes i have the sources for that stuff | 03:26 |
| pupnik | solution would be a relative (drag), like a touchpad movement, with onscreen buttons for l/r | 03:26 |
| j0tt | touchpad whould suck :/ | 03:27 |
| j0tt | there has to be a way to calibrate the screen for absolute clicks ,) | 03:27 |
| pupnik | btw j0tt your sdl N810 keyboard hack seems to work on everything i've tried so far | 03:27 |
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| pupnik | no you can't do that with dosbox. the mouse driver uses relative movement, and there's no API for absolute screen position | 03:28 |
| pupnik | for pure dos games, that is | 03:28 |
| jott | you can.. but it's not that trivial (and would need calibration for every game) | 03:28 |
| jott | basically my idea was, to calibrate the mouse based on positions the user sets .. | 03:29 |
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| pupnik | that is clever | 03:29 |
| jott | like, putting a calibration overlay (4-5 crosses) where the user has to move the mouse to | 03:29 |
| jott | (the dosbox mouse) | 03:29 |
| jott | then you can derive the relative movement from the absolute positions | 03:30 |
| pupnik | then you would need a dpad-style interface just to do the calibration | 03:30 |
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| pupnik | to generate the relative movement | 03:30 |
| pupnik | s/dpad/touchpad/ | 03:31 |
| jott | yeah something like that.. | 03:31 |
| pupnik | very clever though. that could possibly work | 03:31 |
| lcdd | since the dosbox window/view doesn't fill whole screen you could leave some space for other things.. like button presses | 03:31 |
| jott | (though even with the current interface it would be possible to get the pointer to a given point with some effort) | 03:31 |
| pupnik | i find games with which i can not move the mouse to certain positions with current interface | 03:32 |
| pupnik | as an alternative, the hardware dpad could be used during calibration to move the DOS mouse to be under the calibration point | 03:34 |
| jott | hmm possibly i suppose you still need some reference relative data | 03:35 |
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| pupnik | ok we have to increase threshold for x/y offset under which double click is detected | 03:49 |
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| pupnik | found it | 03:52 |
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| pupnik | it was set to 1 pixel offset (!) | 03:55 |
| unique311 | pupnik, I made the latest news at choplair. --> http://choplair.org/?en/Main_page | 03:55 |
| unique311 | drinks on me. | 03:56 |
| pupnik | nice | 03:57 |
| pupnik | you stuck it out with the hildonization then? | 03:57 |
| unique311 | manage to get 1 app done. | 03:57 |
| unique311 | mtpaint is another story.... | 03:57 |
| pupnik | yeah lots of work there | 03:59 |
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| pupnik | <- sleep | 04:01 |
| unique311 | night. | 04:01 |
| johnx | 'night pupnik | 04:01 |
| Solarion | what is the largest usable sdcard size in the n800? | 04:03 |
| johnx | The N800 supports all SDHC cards, so as large as you can find | 04:03 |
| johnx | people have tested various 16GB cards | 04:03 |
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| Solarion | sweet | 04:03 |
| Solarion | the n810 does up to 8gb, or is that 8gb is the largest you can find? | 04:04 |
| johnx | well, I think 8GB is the largest microSDHC card you can find right now | 04:04 |
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| johnx | but Nokia's site has some thing like "supports up to 8GB SDHC cards" left over from when 8GB was the biggest thing out there | 04:05 |
| johnx | it confuses a lot of people | 04:05 |
| Solarion | ah | 04:05 |
| LinuxCode | john so it could support 16GB + ? | 04:09 |
| LinuxCode | I know sdhc can do 2048 | 04:09 |
| LinuxCode | but could the N810 handle that | 04:09 |
| LinuxCode | ? | 04:09 |
| johnx | there's no reason to think that any card that complies with the microSDHC, miniSDHC and/or SDHC specs wont' work in either machine | 04:09 |
| LinuxCode | k | 04:10 |
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| Tama^2 | ue | 04:20 |
| Tama^2 | err | 04:20 |
| Tama^2 | true | 04:20 |
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| Tama^2 | unfortunately sd cards have major quirks | 04:20 |
| johnx | well yeah, but there's no reason to think that an (eventually available) 32GB SDHC card from a major vendor will be *less* compatible than an 8GB card from a no-name brand | 04:21 |
| Tama^2 | yes they are very likely to work but there may be unpleasant sideeffect with some combination of driver/controller/card | 04:21 |
| Tama^2 | sure, it makes sense to assume they will work ok | 04:22 |
| Tama^2 | I got 2x16Gb and they work | 04:22 |
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| johnx | wow, there's nothing like having someone release the package you need, days before you need it :D | 04:26 |
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| johnx | jott, did you ever figure out the keymap issue in Debian? | 04:58 |
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| johnx | b0unc3, did you have to do much special to get my debian tarball working on your 770? | 05:55 |
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| acydlord | I think this weekend I'm gonna see if i can install scratchbox and maemo on gOS | 06:10 |
| johnx | you have something running gOS? | 06:10 |
| acydlord | i will as of tomorrow | 06:10 |
| johnx | a walmart PC or that cloudbook thing? | 06:10 |
| acydlord | installing it on my old 500mhz system | 06:10 |
| acydlord | probably gonna buy the everx gPC with the money from selling my n800 | 06:11 |
| johnx | ah, cool | 06:11 |
| johnx | need a real portable instead of something pocketable? | 06:11 |
| acydlord | well i have my n810 | 06:12 |
| johnx | aaah | 06:12 |
| johnx | that makes sense then | 06:12 |
| acydlord | just trying to cycle out the power hungry beasts for something more green | 06:12 |
| acydlord | i got rid of a 3ghz opteron 2 years ago and replaced it with a 1.4ghz geode | 06:12 |
| johnx | eh, I like my power hungry desktop...I will always find a way to use all the CPU power available to me | 06:13 |
| acydlord | dropped my electric bill about $20 a year | 06:13 |
| acydlord | well i have 7 systems in here right now | 06:13 |
| johnx | that starts to make more sense :) | 06:13 |
| acydlord | trying to downscale the towers to rackmounts and get something more green for the rest | 06:13 |
| johnx | I assume the geode is for a fileserver? | 06:13 |
| acydlord | nah, just a cheapo low power desktop | 06:14 |
| acydlord | it's actually my windows box right now lol | 06:15 |
| johnx | at my last job I actually deployed a whole bunch of Geode thinclients running Debian and acting as "web kiosk" machines | 06:15 |
| johnx | it was really awesome because I trimmed down the desktop until firefox ran faster on them (1GHz Geode/256MB RAM) then it did on the G5 iMacs they replaced... | 06:16 |
| acydlord | yeah, they are amazing machines | 06:16 |
| johnx | I was worried about the people using them complaining but they were happy to have the "upgrade" :D | 06:16 |
| acydlord | i was dissapointed when AMD discontinued the series | 06:16 |
| johnx | granted the iMacs were running way too much crap... | 06:17 |
| johnx | did they? | 06:17 |
| johnx | I didn't even know that | 06:17 |
| johnx | At least Via and Intel seem commited to low power stuff | 06:17 |
| acydlord | amd is making a new low power series | 06:18 |
| johnx | mmm...solid state machines with a read-only root filesystem are *so damn easy* to maintain | 06:18 |
| acydlord | indeed | 06:18 |
| johnx | your machine burst into flames? *replace with a spare* then *RMA* | 06:19 |
| acydlord | the one thing that pisses me off about solid state machines is that about 10 years ago i had a really good plan for a solid state macine, had schematics and everything drawn up | 06:19 |
| acydlord | except back then solid state was redcilously expensive and not as abundant as it is now | 06:20 |
| johnx | yeah | 06:20 |
| johnx | just these last two years flash prices have gone through the floor | 06:20 |
| acydlord | yeah i know | 06:20 |
| acydlord | 3 years ago a 1gb transflash card was like $120 | 06:21 |
| acydlord | now i can get a 2gb transflash card for $14 | 06:21 |
| acydlord | with sd, minisd, and usb adapters | 06:21 |
| johnx | when I was rolling these out I had to settle for 512MB of flash for / | 06:21 |
| acydlord | ouch | 06:21 |
| johnx | it was a heck of a lot better than 256MB O_o | 06:22 |
| acydlord | the one i have is still somewhat like a normal desktop, using pc3200 | 06:22 |
| johnx | I "inherited" the first round of machines with 128MB RAM / 256MB flash and told to get them working for what we needed, but that really didn't work out | 06:22 |
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| acydlord | lol | 06:23 |
| acydlord | mine came with 256mb ram and preloaded with linspire | 06:23 |
| johnx | yeah, they were totally unusable with firefox :/ | 06:25 |
| acydlord | yeah, it came with ff 1.5 that was all stripped down | 06:25 |
| johnx | the linux install they came with was totally broken | 06:26 |
| johnx | painfully broken...just really bad | 06:26 |
| johnx | the second round with 512MB of flash came with a really great small debian install | 06:27 |
| johnx | HP even made packages for their proprietary stuff, so I just dpkg --purge'd their stuff and went on my way | 06:27 |
| acydlord | nice | 06:29 |
| acydlord | mine came on some crappy ECS mobo, got it on the fry's electronics GQ brand | 06:29 |
| johnx | aaah, ECS | 06:29 |
| johnx | let's see, the ones I used were HP t5725 thin clients | 06:32 |
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| oil_ | hump | 06:46 |
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| johnx | gah! Xomap opens and reads from /dev/input/event2 in ITOS but won't in Debian | 07:25 |
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| ds3 | johnx: Xomap based off tinyX? | 07:45 |
| johnx | yeah, I guess they call it "kdrive" now | 07:46 |
| johnx | I'm downloading the source now | 07:47 |
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| ds3 | I think kdrive servers take an argument for the input device | 07:47 |
| johnx | I'm handing it exactly the same arguments as in ITOS...but maybe an environment variable somewhere? | 07:48 |
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| ds3 | yeah... TSLIB_DEVICE or something like that | 07:51 |
| Tama^2 | Environment Variables | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | ===================== | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | TSLIB_TSDEVICETS device file name. | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | Default (non inputapi): /dev/touchscreen/ucb1x00 | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | Default (inputapi): /dev/input/event0 | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | TSLIB_CALIBFILECalibration file. | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | Default: ${sysconfdir}/pointercal | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | TSLIB_CONFFILEConfig file. | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | Default: ${sysconfdir}/ts.conf | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | TSLIB_PLUGINDIRPlugin directory. | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | Default: ${datadir}/plugins | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | TSLIB_CONSOLEDEVICEConsole device. | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | Default: /dev/tty | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | TSLIB_FBDEVICEFramebuffer device. | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | Default: /dev/fb0 | 07:58 |
| Tama^2 | johnx: from http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/tslib/trunk/tslib/README?view=markup | 07:58 |
| johnx | ah, thanks | 07:58 |
| johnx | though the touchscreen actually *works* | 07:58 |
| johnx | I figured it was going to be the big problem | 07:59 |
| johnx | but it worked out of the box pretty much | 07:59 |
| johnx | I can't make the hardware buttons work in X at all :/ | 07:59 |
| Tama^2 | I am curious about how it works in the sensitivity dept for you | 07:59 |
| johnx | hmm? | 07:59 |
| Tama^2 | OS2008 has troubles IMHO | 07:59 |
| Tama^2 | troubles distinguishing between stylus and finger taps | 08:00 |
| johnx | is there an easy way to test that? | 08:00 |
| Tama^2 | no, I was planning to test that after I am done with my battery tests | 08:00 |
| Tama^2 | but I haven't thought about it yet | 08:00 |
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| oil_ | is this the best way to convert videos for n800? http://mediaconverter.garage.maemo.org/ | 08:02 |
| oil_ | how about command line? | 08:02 |
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| johnx | tablet-encode (formerly 770-encode.pl) | 08:02 |
| johnx | tablet-encode just calls mencoder so there's a lot of flexibility | 08:03 |
| ds3 | johnx: the buttons are in 2 seperate event devices | 08:03 |
| johnx | hmm | 08:03 |
| ds3 | but you probally just care about one of them (the other is the power button) | 08:04 |
| johnx | ah | 08:04 |
| oil_ | johnx: on. thanks. I'll check it out | 08:04 |
| ds3 | if you have udev, /dev/input/ has 3 entries | 08:04 |
| johnx | four actually... | 08:04 |
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| ds3 | 4?! hmmm interesting, wonder what's the other one | 08:04 |
| johnx | event2 seems to be physical buttons | 08:04 |
| johnx | event3 is touchscreen | 08:04 |
| johnx | 1 or 0 must be the power button? | 08:04 |
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| johnx | I think one might have something to do with the wired remote? | 08:05 |
| ds3 | 810 or 800? | 08:05 |
| johnx | event0 is power | 08:05 |
| johnx | n800 | 08:06 |
| johnx | OS2008 and Debian w/ OS2008 kernel | 08:06 |
| ds3 | hmmm | 08:06 |
| johnx | yeah, /dev/input/by-path/platform-retu-headset-event is a link to event1 | 08:06 |
| johnx | Tama^2, I ran xev and no matter how hard I pressed it came up as button1 | 08:08 |
| johnx | don't know if that helps you | 08:08 |
| Tama^2 | mmm interesting | 08:10 |
| johnx | keep in mind that for some reason Xomap seems to be acting differently for me under Debian vs under OS2008 | 08:11 |
| Tama^2 | I guess to find out I will have to look at how text fields are setup to bring up the thumb keyb | 08:11 |
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| chibiAcyd | man, the n810 is more sexy than the iphone | 08:26 |
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| Radar- | that it is, for now | 08:36 |
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| truent | man i gotta get back into dev for the n800 | 08:37 |
| Pio_ | 08:38 | |
| oil_ | seems like the video is doing a good job as if. | 08:38 |
| truent | i figured everything out i needed to for the program i was trying to make.. and never put it all together cuz it seemed like the mountain was already climbed on my part ;p | 08:38 |
| truent | no payoff | 08:38 |
| truent | plus i couldnt get scratchbox to work really the way i wanted it to, so typing everything out on the n800 with a stylus seemed a bit tedious ;) | 08:40 |
| oil_ | someone was making an D-cell batterypack for N810? Was there any results? Could be good on long fights etc. | 08:40 |
| Radar- | I use a vmware image of debian for my scratchbox | 08:40 |
| truent | for n800 compiling? | 08:41 |
| Radar- | yeah | 08:41 |
| truent | ahh you run windows, and vmware debian.. with scratchbox inside? | 08:41 |
| Radar- | exactly | 08:42 |
| truent | nah i run ubuntu fulltime.. i have it working, its just not exactly helpful.. i could do the same thing more or less ssh'ing into the n800 | 08:42 |
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| truent | thing is im developing in ruby.. and didnt feel like working out how to install ruby-maemo and ruby-dbus in scratchbox | 08:43 |
| Radar- | I'm a vb/web programmer so I gave up on maemo dev for now | 08:43 |
| truent | not that i couldnt.. just dont feel like putting more on the plate ;p | 08:44 |
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| truent | yeah the real reason i guess im lax is my work just figured out i can program so they're throwing a bunch of excel spreadsheet work at me.. vba.. mmm | 08:44 |
| truent | that mmm was sarcastic btw ;p | 08:44 |
| Radar- | heh | 08:45 |
| truent | i gave up on vb when i was 14.. sucks to go back.. but anything to put on the resume.. i'll do it | 08:45 |
| truent | you know other langs right? | 08:45 |
| Radar- | I work on some cross platform programming too, but the dev tool needs gl and x86 to run the binary, so n800 is out | 08:46 |
| truent | right | 08:47 |
| truent | you know what a hash is? | 08:47 |
| Radar- | I'm mostly a web programmer, php/asp/perl/etc | 08:47 |
| truent | like an array.. but you access with {"whatever"} | 08:47 |
| truent | type of thing | 08:47 |
| truent | and returns a key | 08:47 |
| truent | does vb have such a thing? | 08:47 |
| truent | err returns a value | 08:48 |
| Radar- | I'm sure it does | 08:48 |
| truent | sorry had a few beers | 08:48 |
| Radar- | I had a few too few | 08:48 |
| johnx | aaah, the grand tradition of drunken IRC | 08:48 |
| johnx | :P | 08:49 |
| truent | well im jumping through crazy ass hoops to do everything the old fashioned way ;) when im now used to php or ruby type stuff.. all the nice 90s programmer perks | 08:49 |
| truent | heh | 08:49 |
| truent | you aint lyin | 08:49 |
| truent | grand tradition indeed | 08:49 |
| truent | notice i said 90s ;) | 08:49 |
| truent | vb's lame | 08:49 |
| johnx | so is it tuesday night where you guys are? or wednesday morning? | 08:49 |
| Radar- | I should look into ruby | 08:49 |
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| truent | Radar-, good stuff.. especially for web with rails.. but the language itself is really well thought out.. and uhh 'alterego' in here even packaged up a ruby-maemo package so you can use gtk to build gui interfaces on the n800 pretty darn easily | 08:51 |
| truent | johnx, tues, im in cali | 08:51 |
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| johnx | ah | 08:51 |
| Radar- | I'll stick with just installing/modifying pre-built scripts on websites as needed, heh | 08:52 |
| Radar- | abuse oof open source! | 08:52 |
| truent | heh | 08:52 |
| johnx | and I guess I fall into the third category, not so much "developing" as "hacking around" :) | 08:52 |
| truent | its really somethin.. you do alot of database stuff with php or no? | 08:52 |
| truent | johnx, we all stand on the shoulders of giants | 08:53 |
| Radar- | I hate the virtual keyboard on the n800. always double types letters | 08:53 |
| truent | call yourself a developer, give it an upgrade | 08:53 |
| truent | Radar-, os2008 increased sensitivity i think | 08:53 |
| johnx | heh...I'm really just trying to get code that's already out there working | 08:54 |
| truent | thats when i noticed it | 08:54 |
| Radar- | yeah, it did | 08:54 |
| truent | johnx, for what? | 08:54 |
| johnx | working on getting a real debian system running on the N800 | 08:54 |
| truent | ahh big project | 08:54 |
| johnx | lots of hacking, not much programming :) | 08:54 |
| johnx | like you said, standing on the shoulders of giants :) | 08:55 |
| truent | always | 08:55 |
| truent | how did the kde guys do it? | 08:55 |
| truent | is that just on top of os2008? | 08:55 |
| johnx | they're just running it inside ITOS | 08:55 |
| johnx | yeah, I think they carefully kill off some stuff, then launch KDE | 08:56 |
| Radar- | the iphone with an sdk and the asus eee pc also look tempting | 08:56 |
| truent | hmm, obviously doable.. whats the current roadblock ya got? | 08:56 |
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| johnx | I'll wait to see what apple actually offers in terms of the SDK, ie what can be accessed, whether you can freely distribute your binaries, how to install on the phone... | 08:56 |
| truent | Radar-, iphone's 700mhz is sexy.. i just hate the hype | 08:56 |
| truent | Radar-, have you seen the eee in person? | 08:57 |
| Radar- | not yet | 08:57 |
| truent | i have.. | 08:57 |
| truent | eh. | 08:57 |
| johnx | truent, hardware buttons, sound and *gag* power management :/ | 08:57 |
| Radar- | haven't found a store that carries it | 08:57 |
| Radar- | if tthey add a larger screen in the same form factor, win | 08:58 |
| truent | if i showed the guys at the store i saw the eeepc at the n800 they'd definitely give some oo's and ah's | 08:58 |
| johnx | eee is interesting, I guess...but not very pocketable | 08:58 |
| truent | johnx, yeah you need a team methinks.. of people more giantish than you | 08:58 |
| truent | ;p | 08:58 |
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| johnx | well thankfully their are other people working on it, but that's why I keep plugging it in IRC :D | 08:59 |
| Radar- | my n800 in its case fits in my coat pocket, thatt's about it | 08:59 |
| truent | johnx, gotcha | 08:59 |
| truent | im not your man btw :P | 08:59 |
| truent | too much headache for me for sure | 08:59 |
| truent | im down to test though if you ever need that :P | 08:59 |
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| johnx | fair enough, but if you have a friend who asks about Debian on the Nokia tablets you can send him here | 09:00 |
| truent | eeepc was just a lil lackluster, when ive seen it on websites i wanted it.. but when i saw it in person i was glad i had an n800 ;p | 09:00 |
| truent | no doubt | 09:00 |
| johnx | Radar-, no case for me. I live dangerously | 09:00 |
| Radar- | debian running in a scratchbox in a debian image in vmware in windows! | 09:01 |
| truent | i got that slothskin wallet that came in the n800 box, does that count? | 09:01 |
| truent | lol | 09:01 |
| Tama^2 | speaking of virtual kb, there is a matchbox package in extra. anyone tried to install it? ;-) | 09:02 |
| Radar- | I like the access to the full catalog of software that an eee running ubuuntu would have | 09:02 |
| truent | Radar-, what about johnx's debian? ;P | 09:02 |
| Radar- | crazy talk! | 09:03 |
| johnx | Tama^2, which part of matchbox is it? keyboard? desktop? | 09:03 |
| Tama^2 | keyboard | 09:03 |
| truent | Radar-, maybe i missed somethin when i was lookin, but on the eeepc i couldnt even find an xterm to really mess around, and i looked | 09:03 |
| johnx | aah...it goes with the CJK stuff right? | 09:03 |
| Tama^2 | the odd thing is that of course it must be already inatalled | 09:03 |
| Tama^2 | *installed | 09:03 |
| johnx | hmm...I think not | 09:04 |
| Tama^2 | not sure the package description does not mention CJK | 09:04 |
| Radar- | thhe default os on the eee is prretty limited | 09:04 |
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| johnx | IIRC, Nokia uses hildon-keyboard and matchbox-window-manager | 09:04 |
| Radar- | more visual focused than functional | 09:04 |
| truent | Radar-, ahh so you have to hack it to get all that.. just like john's doing for the n800 right ? :P | 09:05 |
| truent | heh | 09:05 |
| johnx | to be fair it is a heck of a lot easier on an x86 machine with a normal BIOS | 09:05 |
| johnx | :P | 09:05 |
| truent | Radar-, vista or xp? | 09:05 |
| Tama^2 | OK | 09:05 |
| truent | thats true | 09:05 |
| Radar- | naw, just format it annd install ubuntu or xp, no hacking needed | 09:05 |
| johnx | right, but you need drivers | 09:06 |
| johnx | I'm in the same situation | 09:06 |
| Radar- | I forget if it runs gOS or xandros by default | 09:06 |
| johnx | a "debian install" is one command: debootstrap /media/mmc2 | 09:06 |
| truent | xandros i think | 09:06 |
| truent | i think on the one i saw | 09:06 |
| Radar- | gOS might be the OLPC one | 09:07 |
| johnx | nah, gOS is the walmart one :) | 09:07 |
| johnx | OLPC does their own thing | 09:07 |
| truent | yeah this one was meant to be xp-ish you could tell | 09:07 |
| truent | still cool dont get me wrong | 09:07 |
| truent | but everyone i've shown the n800 to was impressed.. the eeepc its like.. "why didnt you just buy a good laptop?" | 09:08 |
| johnx | yeah, and probably a good match for a lot of people who just want to check their mail and play solitair and look at wikipedia | 09:08 |
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| truent | well sheeit thats 99% of the computer market :P | 09:08 |
| johnx | the people who I would recommend an eeePC to are my parents | 09:08 |
| truent | heh | 09:09 |
| truent | no viruses mom! | 09:09 |
| johnx | no viruses, no dicking around with program compatibility since everything she needs is already there, etc, etc | 09:09 |
| johnx | if I could make / read-only it would be even better | 09:09 |
| truent | yeah ive finally got a few friends on linux | 09:10 |
| truent | its always when they have ashitty computer that windows would suck the life out of though | 09:10 |
| truent | so its hard for them to love it rather than just be satisfied ya know | 09:10 |
| johnx | same experience here, pretty much | 09:10 |
| johnx | if they have money I tell them to buy a mac | 09:10 |
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| truent | heh | 09:11 |
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| truent | i like macs just dont like the cult | 09:11 |
| johnx | it's just another Unix system to me | 09:11 |
| johnx | but for standard users it's pretty low maintanence | 09:11 |
| truent | for sure.. i just cant call myself a mac person | 09:11 |
| truent | oh no doubt | 09:12 |
| johnx | I had one for work at my last job | 09:12 |
| johnx | 10.4 Tiger was ok, and actually they fixed a lot of stuff that annoyed me in Leopard after I had left | 09:12 |
| johnx | but some things still just bug the life out of me...like click to focus | 09:12 |
| truent | no option? | 09:13 |
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| johnx | nope | 09:13 |
| truent | thats the thing man.. with user-friendliness comes non-configurability | 09:13 |
| johnx | maybe there was a hack somewhere... | 09:13 |
| truent | the big trade-off of every programmer | 09:13 |
| johnx | it's true | 09:13 |
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| truent | yessir | 09:15 |
| truent | if i ever get a mac i won't have bought it | 09:15 |
| truent | two things i hate, those intolerant of other peoples cultures, and the mexicans. | 09:16 |
| truent | hah | 09:16 |
| truent | im married to a mexican btw | 09:16 |
| truent | love jokes like that | 09:17 |
| johnx | yeah, it made a great "work" laptop since it was good enough to let me be productive and not enticing enough to want to hack up :D | 09:17 |
| truent | yeah | 09:18 |
| truent | i got an old laptop from a brother in law.. trash to him.. throw some linux on.. good to go | 09:18 |
| truent | pentium 4 but that thing running xp was a paperweight | 09:18 |
| Radar- | Ii had an ibook, but after 3 logic board failures (3rd still not fixed) I replaced it with the n800 for the last 9 months | 09:19 |
| johnx | that's what I have now actually | 09:19 |
| johnx | (a P4 laptop, not an ibook) | 09:19 |
| johnx | that thing weighs 10lbs even, I kid you not O_o | 09:19 |
| truent | heh | 09:19 |
| truent | i think this is around there | 09:19 |
| truent | probably 2 or 3 years old | 09:19 |
| truent | not sure | 09:19 |
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| truent | Radar-, still got the ibook? | 09:20 |
| Radar- | yeah | 09:20 |
| truent | <truent> if i ever get a mac i won't have bought it | 09:20 |
| truent | what d'ya say? | 09:20 |
| truent | ;P | 09:20 |
| Radar- | if I put a shim on the gpu it'll probably fix it | 09:20 |
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| Radar- | just never got around to it | 09:21 |
| truent | shim away | 09:21 |
| truent | and right apple a strongly worded letter | 09:21 |
| truent | write even | 09:21 |
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| truent | geez three sierra nevadas and it all goes out the window doesnt it | 09:22 |
| truent | Radar-, you do alot of database programming in php? | 09:22 |
| truent | you said php,asp,perl i think | 09:23 |
| Radar- | yeah, with mysql and php mostly | 09:23 |
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| truent | go buy a crap book or read a good tutorial on ruby on rails.. rails will create variables and methods for you as long as you follow naming conventions | 09:24 |
| truent | hard to explain.. but you wont be giving many if any SELECT statements at all | 09:24 |
| jkyro | bah, django is better ;) | 09:24 |
| solmumaha | rails <3 | 09:25 |
| truent | maybe the django ate my baby? | 09:25 |
| jkyro | the only downside is that there's not that much hosting available | 09:25 |
| johnx | what's with all these data-bases? who needs 'em when you have sh, sed and awk | 09:25 |
| truent | heh | 09:25 |
| oil_ | what and how would would be a correct way to load these nfs-modules on boot? http://maemo.org/community/wiki/settingupnfs/ | 09:25 |
| johnx | plain text should be good enough for anyone! | 09:25 |
| Radar- | my code is embarrasing.. I'm practically italian with all the spaghetti I make | 09:26 |
| truent | Radar-, ruby will teach you (if you try) very good object oriented approaches | 09:26 |
| jkyro | yeeah right | 09:26 |
| Radar- | but then again I work in marketing so knowing any coding at all is a miracle | 09:27 |
| truent | jkyro, when my right hand wants to get off the keyboard and open up a firefox instance i'll look up your django.. until then.. | 09:27 |
| johnx | oil_, insmod them from an init script? | 09:27 |
| truent | Radar-, indeed.. vb it is then :P | 09:27 |
| jkyro | http://www.djangoproject.com/ | 09:27 |
| jkyro | there | 09:27 |
| oil_ | johnx: ok. I'll make one. just wondering if there would have been an file to put these. .thnaks. | 09:27 |
| truent | jkyro, you know ruby? | 09:28 |
| Radar- | these days I mostly hack together asp/access scripts at work | 09:28 |
| johnx | oil_, module autoloading on ITOS is kind of ... not there | 09:28 |
| truent | or just seen it used? | 09:28 |
| truent | jkyro, ahh.. python's answer to rails? | 09:29 |
| truent | i like pythons dbus implementation ;) | 09:29 |
| jkyro | truent: yes | 09:29 |
| jkyro | I don't know ruby that well, which is one of the reasons I'm using django | 09:30 |
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| jkyro | I've tried rails though, didn't deliver for me | 09:30 |
| truent | see i dont know anything about python, just know its pretty much just the other side of the aisle as far as ruby goes | 09:31 |
| jkyro | basically, yes | 09:31 |
| truent | it was ruby or python to learn i chose ruby :P | 09:31 |
| truent | i'll check it out though | 09:31 |
| jkyro | Doesn't make much sense to learn a new language if I can use something I already know | 09:31 |
| jkyro | but, It never hurts to try | 09:32 |
| oil_ | johnx: I put it to nfs-common startscript | 09:32 |
| truent | same here of course, but im not a python/django hater like someone's coming off as ;P | 09:32 |
| truent | good stuff | 09:33 |
| jkyro | I don't particularly dislike ruby or rails either, just pointing out that there are alternatives :) | 09:33 |
| truent | i've always read that rails isnt perfect but its the best so far.. of course as web developers we'd all like to see it keep movin | 09:33 |
| truent | indeed | 09:33 |
| truent | brb | 09:33 |
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| K-Fox | i want to know the setting of usbnetworking , n800 <--- > winxp (os2008) | 10:26 |
| K-Fox | please.... | 10:26 |
| K-Fox | how? | 10:26 |
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| b0unc3 | good morning | 10:35 |
| solmumaha | morning | 10:37 |
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| kennyyu | hi there, I'd like to start a debugging session for mozilla in maemo. I added '--enable-debug' and '--enable-optimize="-O2 -g" but still with error. Does it mean that I cannot build my mozilla tree for debug purpose actually? | 10:41 |
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| EruditeHermit | hey, is the internet call screen supposed to start when the webcam pops out on the n800? My internet call screen no longer does this | 10:43 |
| EruditeHermit | it used to | 10:44 |
| solmumaha | EruditeHermit: there's an option for it | 10:44 |
| EruditeHermit | solmumaha: where is the option? | 10:44 |
| solmumaha | start it by hand and select preferences from the menu | 10:44 |
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| EruditeHermit | solmumaha: oh thank you | 10:45 |
| solmumaha | np | 10:45 |
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| Anidel | hello there | 10:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Howdy | 11:03 |
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| * pupnik_ wants to bypass sdl and go to something like Xv(Shm)PutImage | 11:05 | |
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| K-Fox | i want to know the setting of usbnetworking , n800 <--- > winxp (os200 | 11:34 |
| johnx | K-Fox, ok, I'm not sure if this will work, but I'll try to help. | 11:38 |
| johnx | 1) open up the x-terminal and type "sudo gainroot" | 11:39 |
| johnx | tell me if that works and I'll tell you the second step | 11:39 |
| _collin_ | Tak: he did you get my mail? | 11:39 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:42 |
| Anidel | ù | 11:43 |
| Anidel | morning | 11:43 |
| _collin_ | he | 11:45 |
| Anidel | "he" ? | 11:45 |
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| _collin_ | he = hi | 11:50 |
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| * pupnik is totally thrashing | 11:52 | |
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| pupnik | Jaffa what is your recommendation for this: libSDL currently does not pass-on the FN key to games. jott has made a fixed libSDL that allows use of FN key. It is needed for dosbox. What should I do? Statically link in his libSDL to dosbox or wait x months for a new libSDL from nokia or what? | 11:53 |
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| Jaffa | pupnik: hmm, good question. | 11:57 |
| Anidel | collin ok :) | 11:57 |
| Jaffa | Static linking's probably the best idea unless it's too big. | 11:57 |
| Jaffa | ^pupnik: | 11:58 |
| X-Fade | pupnik: I think static is the best idea for now. As getting that into libSDL on the device can take a while ;) | 11:58 |
| pupnik | oki. temp solution is fine with me, as i'll rebuild as soon as it's addressed officially | 11:58 |
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| X-Fade | pupnik: And I don't think you can upgrade libSDL by putting in into extras? | 11:58 |
| Jaffa | No, you get that "Upgrading software from a different source" message, I think | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, which makes sense.. | 11:59 |
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| * johnx reads xomap source... | 12:00 | |
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| johnx | jott, did you ever get buttons working in Debian? | 12:02 |
| oil_ | great. the joikuspot shares the edge-uplink with WLAN to n810 and n95 at the same time. | 12:03 |
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| hrw | morning | 12:07 |
| johnx | mornin' | 12:07 |
| hrw | what do you think about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2895 one? | 12:07 |
| johnx | I doubt many bug fixes will go into the default mail client, given that it will probably be replaced with "modest" very soon... | 12:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | fwiw, the osso-email bugs are basically all WONTFIX. | 12:11 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, modest is already soo much better ;) | 12:11 |
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| hrw | GeneralAntilles: cool. | 12:13 |
| hrw | another great idea of N company. providing not supported apps by default | 12:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | hrw, it's being phased out for a better product. . . . | 12:14 |
| X-Fade | hrw: Modest is also done with support from Nokia. | 12:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why the hell would they put time and effort into something that's just going to disappear? | 12:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you want to file useful bugs, install Modest and file against that. | 12:14 |
| X-Fade | Modest even has weekly package updates and _changelog_ :) | 12:15 |
| X-Fade | Complete with bug ids. | 12:15 |
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| johnx | X-Fade, Do you know much about Xomap? | 12:16 |
| X-Fade | johnx: Nothing at all ;) | 12:16 |
| johnx | ah well, worth a shot | 12:16 |
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| inz | modest didn't work too well for me, it seems to drain the battery quite quickly | 12:19 |
| inz | And imo it should mark messages read, if they're read from somewhere else | 12:19 |
| hrw | X-Fade: I know that modest is nokia paid | 12:20 |
| X-Fade | inz: I don't experience battery drain with modest. | 12:20 |
| hrw | but for me 'nokia paid' or 'nokia software' does not have to mean 'good' | 12:21 |
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| X-Fade | inz: it only checks once per 15 minutes on my device.. | 12:21 |
| inz | X-Fade, at least it seemed to be always running when I checked, taking quite a load of memory | 12:22 |
| X-Fade | hrw: At least modest is BSD licensed and developed out in the open.. | 12:22 |
| X-Fade | inz: Lot of memory leaks fixed lately.. | 12:22 |
| hrw | X-Fade: the problem is that I do not use n810 for mail daily. just want to be able to look into inbox from time to time without being informed about each new mail | 12:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | webmail. | 12:23 |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: my webmail req 1024px at least and I do not like it | 12:23 |
| X-Fade | hrw: Just disable new mail notification and use imap? | 12:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or that. | 12:24 |
| hrw | for now I jsut removed account at all | 12:25 |
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| fysa | sleep kicked me out of bed., | 12:25 |
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| fysa | Modest is no longer Nokia-supported? | 12:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | fysa, what? | 12:26 |
| fysa | oh, nevermind. ;) | 12:27 |
| johnx | OMG, I'll spread the news! :P | 12:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | fysa lerns 2 reed | 12:27 |
| johnx | (This is how rumors start) | 12:27 |
| * fysa scrolls back more than 20 lines | 12:27 | |
| fysa | haha | 12:27 |
| hrw | :) | 12:27 |
| jku | modest is dying, netcraft confirms | 12:27 |
| fysa | <X-Fade> hrw: Modest is also done with support from Nokia | 12:27 |
| fysa | I thought that meant they were fed up. ;) | 12:28 |
| johnx | aaah | 12:28 |
| fysa | johnx: you have hildon booting in debian-armel?} | 12:28 |
| johnx | yup | 12:28 |
| johnx | and leafpad runs unmodified | 12:28 |
| fysa | you tried other packages? | 12:28 |
| johnx | not really | 12:28 |
| inz | modest webpage is not keyboard friendly | 12:29 |
| fysa | or do we get dependency issues? | 12:29 |
| johnx | There are lots more deps that need to be packaged | 12:29 |
| *** lardman|gone is now known as lardman | 12:29 | |
| fysa | are you using it as your 'main' interface now? | 12:29 |
| fysa | debian-armel, that is. | 12:29 |
| johnx | and there are already one group of people packaging maemo for debian, so I've switched back to working on hardware stuff | 12:29 |
| johnx | fysa, heck now :) | 12:29 |
| johnx | er...no | 12:29 |
| johnx | it needs lots of work | 12:30 |
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| hrw | heh.. I feel tat it is time to create own repo with stuff missing in maemo ones.. | 12:30 |
| hrw | why there is no strace package for example | 12:31 |
| johnx | oh cool! I'll create some repos too :D | 12:31 |
| johnx | hrw, http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ has the answers | 12:31 |
| hrw | johnx: I do not plan to try to get own packages in maemo extras | 12:31 |
| johnx | the maemo extras policy is in the process of changing... | 12:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Everybody make a repo! | 12:32 |
| hrw | Nokia-N810-50-2:~# wc /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list | 12:32 |
| fysa | OK, cool. I am actually going to have time to play with this stuff now.. big project at work launched so I've finally had time to catch up on things like finishing unpacking from three months ago. ;) | 12:32 |
| hrw | 41 168 2152 /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list | 12:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | As everybody knows more repos are always better! | 12:32 |
| _collin_ | :) | 12:32 |
| * _collin_ has one | 12:33 | |
| hrw | johnx: with 41 repos from gronmayer page I still lack strace | 12:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | fysa, there's no such thing as "finishing unpacking". ;) | 12:33 |
| fysa | I spent a good two hours sorting the home office anyway, which is mostly what I'm in charge of ;) | 12:33 |
| X-Fade | hrw: Isn't it in the sdk repository? | 12:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Modest needs to add the most recent changes to the BOTTOM of the changelog file. | 12:33 |
| fysa | there's just this peksy root canal in 5 hours. | 12:34 |
| fysa | pesky. | 12:34 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Nah, that isn't how changelogs work ;) | 12:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I know. | 12:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia needs to fix Application Manager so it starts at the top. | 12:34 |
| fysa | has Opera said anything about bringing Opera Mobile 9.5 to maemo/armel? | 12:35 |
| johnx | opera mobile is the cell phone version, isn't it? | 12:35 |
| jku | fysa, why would they if N isn't paying anymore? | 12:35 |
| fysa | http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/video-opera-mobile-9-5-redesign-is-lickity-quick-slick/ | 12:36 |
| fysa | the rendering engine is very nice. | 12:36 |
| lardman | hrw: bitbake built feed.... | 12:36 |
| hrw | added 42 repository into list | 12:36 |
| hrw | lardman: thats the plan | 12:36 |
| lardman | good news | 12:36 |
| * johnx will be back later | 12:37 | |
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| hrw | lardman: I was always tired of 'you need XY repositories to install application' problem of maemo | 12:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Then why do you want to go and make yet more repos? <_< | 12:38 |
| fysa | does anyone have a maintained public repo? | 12:39 |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: sooner or later I will drop other ones | 12:39 |
| fysa | that accepts submissions easily? | 12:39 |
| lardman | hrw: feels like the very early Zaurus days still | 12:39 |
| hrw | lardman: sharprom crap - yes. | 12:39 |
| lardman | hrw: though it's nice to have the official repos | 12:39 |
| fysa | maybe we need a site that lets you register, upload debs and vote up/down/review existing debs. | 12:39 |
| hrw | lardman: or redhat 5/6 | 12:40 |
| lardman | hrw: yep | 12:40 |
| fysa | then each developer wouldn't need to setup their own. | 12:40 |
| hrw | fysa: upload debs is wrong way | 12:40 |
| X-Fade | fysa: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-February/014409.html :) | 12:40 |
| hrw | fysa: upload sources and let autobuilder build them | 12:40 |
| lardman | fysa: just use OpenEmbedded metadata with an autobuilder | 12:40 |
| lardman | hrw: can you setup a feed/autobuilder? | 12:40 |
| X-Fade | lardman: We have the sources for the auto-builder that Nokia uses.. | 12:40 |
| hrw | lardman: would prefer to not doing it | 12:41 |
| lardman | X-Fade: yes, but OpenEmbedded works(TM) | 12:41 |
| fysa | X-Fade: excellent | 12:41 |
| lardman | hrw: fair enough | 12:41 |
| lardman | hrw: I don't have enough space, but for starters it would be good to setup a feed (non-autobuilt) to get people used to the idea | 12:41 |
| fysa | so garage projects will be able to add themselves to a repo? | 12:41 |
| hrw | lardman: I am connected with OpenedHand and would like to not spend too much time on maemo | 12:42 |
| lardman | hrw: ah, I see | 12:42 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Yeah, but how much do we need to change to use openembedded ;) | 12:42 |
| lardman | fysa: if they submit a build recipe, then yes, they could be built from the source | 12:42 |
| fysa | I see. | 12:43 |
| hrw | and all deps will also get build automatically | 12:43 |
| hrw | so no more 'you need package X from repo Y to install Z from my repo' | 12:43 |
| X-Fade | fysa: First step will be easy upload of binary debs. But auto-building is the goal.. | 12:43 |
| lardman | fysa: it's easy enough, lots of examples :) http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages | 12:43 |
| hrw | X-Fade: I am against binary debs | 12:44 |
| lardman | X-Fade: makes it difficult it you want to modify a package | 12:44 |
| X-Fade | hrw: Everybody is ;) But you have to start somewhere.. | 12:44 |
| hrw | X-Fade: you cant be sure that they are buildable | 12:44 |
| X-Fade | hrw: And they are that way now.. | 12:44 |
| X-Fade | Going to auto-building and stop support uploading binary packages can't be done in one day. We need to do it in a few steps. | 12:45 |
| lardman | hrw: I got a strange error this morning when I went to use OE (I've moved to Ubuntu now). It said "Please install following missing utilities: C++ compiler (${BUILD_PREFIX}g++)" | 12:46 |
| lardman | hrw: does it not like GCC 4.x.x? | 12:46 |
| hrw | lardman: apt-get install build-essential? | 12:46 |
| lardman | hrw: ah, I couldn't see a link to the RequiredPackages page | 12:47 |
| lardman | must have been my fuzzy morning eyes | 12:48 |
| hrw | or lack of coffe | 12:49 |
| hrw | e | 12:49 |
| lardman | hrw: yeah, only half way through first cup :) | 12:49 |
| hrw | C0:FF:EE:C0:FF:EE is mac address of my AP | 12:50 |
| lardman | jku: so what are your thoughts on the improvement or not produced by gpsd? | 12:50 |
| lardman | hrw: nice :) | 12:50 |
| jku | lardman, I really don't know... on one hand I do believe the osso-gpsd maintainer | 12:51 |
| jku | on the other, I believe I saw a real improvement compared to my tests in January | 12:51 |
| jku | I have not yet tested with a clean system/osso-gpsd again | 12:52 |
| lardman | jku: I've not tested either as it's too bloody cold to sit outside in the middle of a field :) | 12:52 |
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| jku | the scientist in me is telling me I just saw placebo... but it would be really strange since in January I decided the GPS was unusable crap. | 12:53 |
| lardman | jku: Well I had decided that, as I can't easily get a lock from my balcony window, but then nor can my iBlue these days | 12:54 |
| lardman | jku: Then I drove to work (~2min) and had a lock by the time I arrived (with both) | 12:55 |
| lardman | jku: not exactly scientific testing methodology :) | 12:55 |
| X-Fade | jku: I didn't notice any difference when cold booting and fixing.. | 12:56 |
| jku | X-Fade, good to know. | 12:56 |
| X-Fade | jku: I had fixes in range 1min-15 minutes. With both versions.. | 12:56 |
| X-Fade | Random fix times is what I get ;) | 12:57 |
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| jku | would support the placebo theory. Man, that bruises my ego | 12:57 |
| jku | I've always considered myself analytical, and not easily fooled by statistical anomalies | 12:58 |
| X-Fade | jku: Well, it looked promising at least. But... | 12:58 |
| jku | I'll test a bit more (tomorrow maybe), decide then | 12:59 |
| |tbb| | morning | 13:01 |
| nick_fn | Is the 'unlock device' dialog larger on OS2008? On my OS2007 N800, the numbers are really tiny buttons - which seems crazy for a touchscreen. | 13:03 |
| |tbb| | lardman, i use the original gpsd not the patched one, i was staying one hour in a house gps was shutdown after i go out put gps on and a fix was nearly under 30 seconds, i only need longer fixes if the gps is shutdown longer 3hours or so, so i belive test how fast it locks or not could only be reliable if the gps is off a "longer" time | 13:04 |
| jku | |tbb|, that's right. Or at least the warm fixes are not that interesting | 13:05 |
| jku | (as long as they're <1min) | 13:06 |
| jku | the problem I had in Jan was that very often I just couldn't get a fix -- stood over 10 minutes in the middle of a park several times | 13:07 |
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| |tbb| | jku, 1 hour means warm fix??? | 13:07 |
| jku | no idea really... | 13:08 |
| |tbb| | lardman: my chief got a n95 and he says, the fix would be much faster if he conntect his n95 to a service from nokia which tell them where the sattelites positions are, is there something possible to do that with n8x00 | 13:08 |
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| jku | |tbb|, yeah, should be | 13:08 |
| |tbb| | jku your confusing me | 13:09 |
| jku | Heh;) No idea about what is a warm fix for the gps. but assisted GPS should be possible | 13:10 |
| X-Fade | |tbb|: I have a N95 and fix times were as bad as N810 before they added AGPS. | 13:10 |
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| jott | johnx: yes, buttons work after I restart dbus and hal (and having the os2008 xkb dbus handlers copied) | 13:10 |
| X-Fade | |tbb|: People were really complaining about N95 gps before.. | 13:10 |
| |tbb| | is that agps same as i talk, getting positions of the sattelite via internet? | 13:10 |
| lardman | |tbb|: 6 min is warm fix | 13:10 |
| lardman | |tbb|: I think that's how long the ephemeris data are valid | 13:11 |
| |tbb| | lardman: that means sometimes you get a fast fix even when a hour gps was shutdown? | 13:12 |
| lardman | |tbb|: pretty much yes, the assistance is computed by modelling the satellite orbits | 13:12 |
| lardman | |tbb|: you shouldn't really, unless there are few ephemeris corrections needed; though with that said even a cold fix with known almanac & position shouldn't take too long really. 18s or so to download the ephemeris data I remember seeing | 13:12 |
| lardman | download from the satellites that is | 13:13 |
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| jku | |tbb|, I checked: old satellite ephemeris data can be useful for several hours... | 13:16 |
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| jku | the same source says ephemeris data download takes about 30 secs, but lousy receivers may take a lot longer because you need to start over if there's a problem... | 13:19 |
| |tbb| | could we manuelly get the sattelites position data and use it with n8x0 in any way | 13:19 |
| fugitivo | morning | 13:19 |
| |tbb| | btw through internet | 13:19 |
| lardman | |tbb|: that's the whole idea, if we can work out the format of nvd_data | 13:19 |
| jku | |tbb|, sure, from the web. The problem is the format the driver uses as lardman said | 13:20 |
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| lardman | |tbb|: e.g. supl.nokia.com supplies such data for the N95 | 13:20 |
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| * |tbb| wonders, when nokia knows about that problem (n95 n810 has same gps-chip) why the f*ck they dont support us | 13:21 | |
| lardman | perhaps they will..... | 13:21 |
| * |tbb| take his wondering back | 13:21 | |
| lardman | the N95 didn't have assistance when it was first released | 13:22 |
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| hrw | http://pastebin.ca/893702 argh | 13:24 |
| X-Fade | N95 has the added problem that the antenna for GPS is located under the keypad. Which is not optimal :) | 13:24 |
| lardman | hrw: hmm, interesting | 13:25 |
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| X-Fade | hrw: I'm sure you are now using a SDK version on the device? | 13:25 |
| hrw | X-Fade: no - its os2007.50.2 (aka os2008) | 13:26 |
| X-Fade | hrw: Yeah, but procps from the sdk repo.. | 13:26 |
| hrw | X-Fade: yes | 13:26 |
| X-Fade | That is only for the developer rootfs. Not the customer one.. | 13:26 |
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| hrw | X-Fade: my OE built one also does not install as busybox is borken when it comes to alternatives | 13:26 |
| hrw | X-Fade: I am developer who use customer rootfs | 13:27 |
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| X-Fade | hrw: Then don't use the SDK repo ;) | 13:28 |
| hrw | X-Fade: problem appear also when I use own procps | 13:28 |
| hrw | busybox provides/conflicts procps | 13:29 |
| hrw | and it should not do it but use update-alternatives instead | 13:29 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, replacing busybox does that ;) | 13:29 |
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| X-Fade | ehm, replacing funcionality that is present in busybox.. | 13:29 |
| X-Fade | Had that happen to me for insmod once :) | 13:29 |
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| hrw | replacing busybox parts with full versions | 13:29 |
| hrw | X-Fade: OE busybox package allow to replace parts without problems | 13:30 |
| hrw | but thats OE not maemo one | 13:30 |
| X-Fade | hrw: You are preaching to the choir ;) | 13:30 |
| X-Fade | I would like a proper shell, instead of busybox too. Same problem.. | 13:31 |
| hrw | X-Fade: install bash then | 13:31 |
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| pupnik | hi someone make a dsp-based /dev/sequencer MIDI player kthxbai :P | 13:32 |
| X-Fade | hrmz.. people replying to Digest mail on mailinglists.. | 13:33 |
| hrw | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2896 | 13:34 |
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| X-Fade | hrw: Thanks for posting that bug.. | 13:35 |
| hrw | X-Fade: vote then | 13:35 |
| lardman | pupnik: is that a command? | 13:35 |
| lardman | or has someone already done that? | 13:35 |
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| pupnik | :) no, just dreaming lardman. | 13:36 |
| pupnik | timidity taking 50% cpu on my athlon2800xp right now btw | 13:36 |
| pupnik | well avg around 32% | 13:36 |
| pupnik | i made a cpu-load reduced timidity tweak btw. | 13:37 |
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| pupnik | btw lardman, .mid files range from ~2 to ~88kB here. Fire-and-forget. | 13:39 |
| lardman | pupnik: remind me in April, I may have some time then ;) | 13:40 |
| jott | hm wouldn't be fm synthesis enough? or do you really want full wavetable support? ;) | 13:40 |
| pupnik | yes an alternative would be adlib on dsp | 13:42 |
| pupnik | exposed as alsa /dev/sequencer for general purpose programs, or compiled/linked-in to games that want to control adlib directly | 13:43 |
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| lcdd | hrw: i wonder if dpkg-divert would help there | 13:48 |
| hrw | lcdd: it would be workaround | 13:49 |
| hrw | lcdd: busybox package is broken | 13:49 |
| hrw | with big '.... you nokia for l10n support': http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/02/06/polish-locale-for-os2008/ | 13:51 |
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| johnx | pupnik, what are the things you did to make timidity lighter on CPU usage? | 14:10 |
| |tbb| | anyone useing n770 with os2007? | 14:12 |
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| fugitivo | |tbb|: i installed again gregale, it works much better now | 14:13 |
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| |tbb| | hmmh :( | 14:14 |
| pupnik | johnx: i deleted the timidity tree sorry. mostly config options | 14:15 |
| johnx | ah, ok | 14:15 |
| johnx | did you try it on the tablet? | 14:16 |
| fugitivo | |tbb|: it's faster, more stable and the touchscreen works better | 14:17 |
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| solmumaha | |tbb|: i have 770he, why? | 14:18 |
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| pupnik | http://michaels770.blogspot.com/2006/03/midi-on-nokia770-with-timidity-while_12.html johnx | 14:21 |
| johnx | ah, thanks :D | 14:22 |
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| |tbb| | solmumaha: could u try to setup an alarm (daily) and reboot the device and tell me if the alarm still remains? | 14:27 |
| giskard | what is the default mail application on the n810? | 14:28 |
| |tbb| | giskard: outlook 98 | 14:29 |
| |tbb| | err it is stable like outlook 98 | 14:29 |
| |tbb| | ;) | 14:29 |
| giskard | uhm, if i "dpkg -l | grep mail" i can't find it, but i don't have removed it, and i still have the Email icon in the menu | 14:31 |
| pupnik | god, python on the tablet is like stuffing an athlete with pure lard | 14:31 |
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| johnx | I don't even know if it really has a name | 14:32 |
| giskard | ok | 14:34 |
| johnx | most of the packages that have "osso" and "email" in the name are at least part of the email program... | 14:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | osso-email is it. | 14:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Soon to be replaced by Modest. | 14:36 |
| johnx | (and none too soon!) | 14:37 |
| hrw | soon as os2009 | 14:37 |
| johnx | eh, the beta works just fine for me now | 14:38 |
| johnx | all I'm waiting for is to launch it from the contacts button... | 14:38 |
| hrw | btw - who is maemo bugzilla admin? | 14:38 |
| giskard | ehrr why if i run dpkg -l | grep blablaba by the normal user i don't get results? | 14:38 |
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| giskard | but if i do dpkg -l works.. | 14:39 |
| giskard | even with sudo gainroot before i cant `pipe` it | 14:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, you could try playing with the .desktop | 14:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | but no guarantees. | 14:40 |
| johnx | eh, I don't quite care enough | 14:40 |
| johnx | I hack around in Debian and for now I'd like to be able to come back to OS2008 and have it "Just work" (tm) | 14:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 14:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Works fine here, giskard. | 14:41 |
| johnx | giskard, dpkg -l gives the same output as user and root for me | 14:41 |
| giskard | GeneralAntilles, via ssh it works | 14:41 |
| * Jaffa finds Modest a bit of a memory hog, a battery drainer and not a particularly friendly piece of software to the rest of maemo | 14:41 | |
| Jaffa | hrw: ferenc | 14:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Works fine on the device, too. | 14:42 |
| hrw | Jaffa: @maemo.org? | 14:42 |
| johnx | Jaffa, I agree that it's not an incredible, powerful, slim mail client...but it has a thick scroll bar and it doesn't choke on my gmail imap account or randomly delete mail | 14:43 |
| hrw | thx Jaffa | 14:43 |
| johnx | practically everything else is just gravy to me... | 14:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | and, more importantly, it's still beta. | 14:43 |
| lardman | aargh, I just discovered a day's worth of email which Outlook hasn't bothered to send | 14:44 |
| lardman | ~lart Microsoft for being rubbish | 14:44 |
| * infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking Microsoft's head off for being rubbish | 14:44 | |
| solmumaha | |tbb|: remind me later, i'm at work atm | 14:45 |
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| |tbb| | solmumaha: ok, plz remind me later then that remind you | 14:48 |
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| solmumaha | |tbb|: will do | 14:51 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: indeed, which is why I've raised bugs. | 14:57 |
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| matmo | tips on porting and getting from x window to hildon window? Already using gdk_window_foreign_new() but my x/gdk/gtk/hildon-fu is almost non-existent :-) | 15:14 |
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| johnx | matmo, have you seen the hildonization guide on maemo.org? | 15:14 |
| johnx | that's about all I can offer right now... | 15:14 |
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| matmo | yep, no help (at least to me). I saw the monkey bubbles thing but the app I am porting (Squeak) only uses X | 15:15 |
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| johnx | ah | 15:15 |
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| matmo | I thought there may be something similar to gdk_window_foreign_new() to get to hildon window. | 15:16 |
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| Tak | I thought somebody (maddler?) already ported squeak | 15:21 |
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| matmo | Tak: when, recently? | 15:21 |
| Tak | hmm, I'm thinking at least a few months ago | 15:23 |
| matmo | afaik some have recompiled but none are what I would say ¨integrated¨ | 15:24 |
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| Tak | I seem to recall whoever it was putting quite a bit of effort into it | 15:29 |
| Tak | maddler: was that you? | 15:30 |
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| maddler | no... it wasn't :) | 15:48 |
| maddler | (me) | 15:48 |
| Tak | well hell | 15:50 |
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| maddler | :) | 15:50 |
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| maddler | damn... registering/mantaining a .it domain is always pita! | 15:51 |
| maddler | beaurocracy kills! | 15:51 |
| maddler | faxes... notifications... verifications... | 15:52 |
| maddler | it took 4 days to complete.. | 15:52 |
| johnx | jeez | 15:52 |
| johnx | faxes? | 15:52 |
| maddler | johnx: yeah! | 15:52 |
| johnx | to get an *internet* domain name? | 15:52 |
| maddler | right... | 15:52 |
| Tak | lol, that's what I was thinking | 15:52 |
| maddler | you have to fax a letter... where you say who you are and assume responsability for that domain... | 15:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 15:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Screw statists. | 15:53 |
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| maddler | then someone will check received faxes against a list of domains awaiting for registration... | 15:53 |
| Tak | "We have faxed your password to 44-23-5584. To complete registration, you must fax your username and the correct password to 43-22-9873." | 15:54 |
| maddler | then they will check if your DNS config is ok... | 15:54 |
| maddler | and then the domain will be activated... | 15:54 |
| maddler | BUT using NDS of the ISP you bought the domain from... | 15:55 |
| maddler | then you change them to your very own DNS... | 15:55 |
| maddler | then they check once more... | 15:55 |
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| maddler | and THEN you have the domain working! | 15:55 |
| maddler | perhaps... | 15:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I find the whole idea incredibly disturbing. | 15:55 |
| maddler | if all the steps went fine! | 15:55 |
| maddler | GeneralAntilles: IT IS! | 15:55 |
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| maddler | cosidering I can have a .com/.net/.org domain working in about 3 minutes! | 15:56 |
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| maddler | oh.. they won't d anything during weekends and various holdays... of course... | 15:56 |
| johnx | maddler, welcome to the future! | 15:56 |
| maddler | so avoid sending faxes during holydais or right after... | 15:56 |
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| maddler | nic.it sucks! | 15:56 |
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| maddler | btw... I now own alphageek.it domain :D | 15:57 |
| johnx | that is cool however | 15:58 |
| johnx | I guess one good thing is that it's harder for domain campers/spammers/advertising portals, to register a .it | 15:58 |
| jumpula | enlarge.it | 15:59 |
| Tak | plus it just makes you that much cooler to have one | 15:59 |
| Tak | I want a Cook Islands domain | 15:59 |
| johnx | jumpula, I stand corrected... | 15:59 |
| johnx | maybe they the other spammy .it's just don't rank as high in google for me... | 15:59 |
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| jumpula | such a domain exists? :) | 16:00 |
| Okko | maddler: don't define a catchall mail for it. I had an .it domain once and it received italian spam almost instantly. | 16:00 |
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| maddler | Okko: I've got a specific mail account for that... :) | 16:06 |
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| alterego | http://zeptar.freeshell.org/images/newnokiatablet.jpg | 16:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 16:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | I saw that en engadget | 16:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like the new matchbox look. | 16:21 |
| alterego | The image is my tablet's screenshot :) | 16:21 |
| alterego | The guy that did it just pasted that link to me ^_^ | 16:21 |
| maddler | lol | 16:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's so ridiculously oversized. | 16:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | You need to hire a team of immigrant laborer's to take turns wearing it as a backpack and squatting down in front of you. | 16:24 |
| johnx | actually, you could get by with a maybe a back brace and a sturdy guitar strap | 16:25 |
| johnx | maybe a sling that holds one arm in place | 16:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Have a pivot attached to your utility belt? | 16:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Strap goes around your neck. | 16:25 |
| johnx | hmm...his stylus needs to be bigger | 16:25 |
| * Tak forward some spam emails | 16:26 | |
| * GeneralAntilles just got an awesome idea for a personal TV-tray. | 16:26 | |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, please say you're thinking of an old-school CRT TV :D | 16:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 16:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, just a wooden table | 16:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | one end attaches to a belt | 16:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | the other has a strap that goes around your neck | 16:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | you can walk around with it. | 16:27 |
| johnx | bah | 16:27 |
| johnx | that's no fun | 16:27 |
| johnx | how about something cool like this: http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/04/the-hip-office-keeps-you-single-working/ | 16:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, but it might be marketable. :P | 16:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 16:28 |
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| LoCusF | omg :D | 16:30 |
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| hrw | Package must have "Section: user/FOO" to be considered compatible. | 16:32 |
| hrw | ARGHHH | 16:32 |
| johnx | hrw, welcome to maemo. Aren't you glad you joined us? :D | 16:32 |
| johnx | anyways | 16:32 |
| * johnx needs to catch some sleep | 16:32 | |
| johnx | 'night all | 16:32 |
| hrw | johnx: sweet dreams | 16:33 |
| johnx | thanks | 16:33 |
| pupnik | hrw read the porting / packaging guidelines on maemo.org | 16:33 |
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| hrw | pupnik: will have to | 16:35 |
| Tak | johnx: Don't fall asleep! The clowns will eat you! | 16:35 |
| johnx | they will find me a most discomforting flavour I'm afraid... | 16:35 |
| hrw | pupnik: maemo appmanager is just insane ;) | 16:35 |
| coffee88 | anyone got a sec to look at some short, bad, client-server test code? my g_io_channel_write_chars version no work. | 16:36 |
| coffee88 | http://pastebin.ca/893821 | 16:36 |
| coffee88 | I assume I'm missing something basic here... | 16:36 |
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| Tak | coffee88: try g_io_channel_flush() ‽ | 16:40 |
| Tak | (after writing) | 16:41 |
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| coffee88 | Tak: wa-hey! that was it! why the server closed the connection anyway without it, I'm not sure... | 16:43 |
| pupnik | Tak++ | 16:44 |
| * coffee88 gives Tak a sweetie. | 16:44 | |
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| Tak | I don't think my current sweetie would be very happy about that... | 16:44 |
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| coffee88 | heh | 16:44 |
| pupnik | apt-cache search sweetie | 16:45 |
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| solmumaha | pupnik: does virtual keyboard work with fullscreen sdl apps? | 16:47 |
| pupnik | no | 16:47 |
| solmumaha | damn | 16:47 |
| solmumaha | makes it useless then | 16:48 |
| coffee88 | Tak: I assume if I have a listening callback on a socket, I can still just write to it whenever I want? for full bi-directional comms? | 16:48 |
| Tak | I have little experience with giochannel; your guess is as good as mine | 16:48 |
| coffee88 | mine haven't been very good to date! I guess I'll just have to try it and see. | 16:49 |
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| Tak | it would seem to make little sense to allow callbacks if they couldn't interact with the channel ;-) | 16:51 |
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| coffee88 | that's what I figured. and the channel seems like it should be two way, if non blocking in the app... | 16:52 |
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| pupnik | jott: around? | 16:54 |
| jott | pupnik: yes | 16:55 |
| pupnik | ah nm i broke exult build again | 16:56 |
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| pupnik | have you heard back about the SDL N810 keyboard problem? | 16:58 |
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| jott | which one? :) | 16:58 |
| pupnik | the lack of Fn key support - your patch for dosbox | 16:59 |
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| pupnik | i haven't found any problems with it | 16:59 |
| pupnik | *patch for libSDL | 16:59 |
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| jott | ah.. no.. have to do that.. | 16:59 |
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| pupnik | one thing about running in the vmware client is big builds seem to run a bit slower | 17:06 |
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| dpb_ | of course stuff runs slower in a virtual machine... | 17:07 |
| jott | pupnik: i wonder if we could find a proper upstream solution.. | 17:08 |
| pupnik | 443172 Sep 17 07:05 /usr/lib/libSDL.a that's a lot to link-in statically :| | 17:08 |
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| alterego | Xen, KVM .. | 17:11 |
| alterego | I use KVM for maemo development, it even has support for multiple cores. | 17:11 |
| jott | well another option would be to provide libsdl 1.2.13 and overwrite the base system one ;) | 17:11 |
| pupnik | yeah ssvb and others were talking about hacker-libSDL's on maemo-developers last year | 17:12 |
| pupnik | for e.g. a 400x240 sdl window could implement double-buffering | 17:12 |
| jott | this would also allow to integrate pixeldoubling. | 17:12 |
| jott | some nice tweaks here and there | 17:12 |
| pupnik | would also allow adding a generic sdl_onscreen_keyboard class | 17:15 |
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| jott | hm well i suppose that should be in an extra lib like SDL_vkb or so | 17:16 |
| jott | (as sdl_ttf etc) | 17:16 |
| Tak | I might implement one using valagame, should I get around to it | 17:16 |
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| pupnik | oh yeah true | 17:16 |
| jott | would be nice project though... | 17:16 |
| Tak | since nobody wants to use rubygame :-P | 17:17 |
| jott | as so many sdl programs reimplemnt this | 17:17 |
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| pupnik | if SDL app requests a fullscreen surface, then how would the virtual keyboard be 'above' it, in a generic way.. | 17:21 |
| Tak | you can just pass a surface for it to blit onto | 17:21 |
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| Tak | it doesn't care if it's the base video surface, or a toplevel game surface, etc | 17:22 |
| jott | the keyboard has to be implemented in the sdl application code anyway | 17:22 |
| jott | integrated | 17:22 |
| Tak | it can just be used like a library | 17:23 |
| Tak | SDL_showKeyboard(mySurface); | 17:23 |
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| Tak | or, more likely, SDL_showKeyboard(mySurface, myKBClosedCallback); | 17:23 |
| * Tak has already spent a lot of time thinking about this problem | 17:24 | |
| jott | or SDL_showKeyboard(vkb_id, mySurface); :) | 17:24 |
| jott | Tak: well then give use code after a brain-dump ;> | 17:25 |
| Tak | I already have code | 17:25 |
| Tak | probably vkb_id will be an argument to SDL_initKeyboard() ;-) | 17:26 |
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| Tak | http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rgkb10os9.png | 17:27 |
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| pupnik | cool | 17:28 |
| jott | ah mockup or really working? ;) | 17:28 |
| Tak | working | 17:28 |
| jott | nice | 17:28 |
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| Tak | however, it's in ruby | 17:28 |
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| Tak | however, I may recreate in vala, which would give a nice, gobject-based api to use from C | 17:29 |
| jott | gobject dependency would be bad :( | 17:30 |
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| * b0r0las saluda en español... | 17:31 | |
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| * b0r0las pregunta: alguien que hable español? | 17:32 | |
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| Tak | yo hablo un poquito, pero no muy bien | 17:32 |
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| Tak | jott: worse than a ruby dependency? ;-) | 17:32 |
| jott | not a big difference actually ;) | 17:33 |
| * Tak shrugs | 17:33 | |
| b0r0las | Tak, gracias... pregunta sencilla: existe un listado de los paquetes .deb que se puedan instalar en un n800? | 17:33 |
| Tak | b0r0las: http://downloads.maemo.org | 17:33 |
| pupnik | Tak that picture gave me an evil idea | 17:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | For the non-ITTers: http://www.internettablettalk.com/2008/02/06/q-a/ | 17:33 |
| Tak | b0r0las: hay tambien muchos informaciones @ http://www.internettablettalk.com | 17:34 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I'd hope that everyone here regularly kept up with p.m.o | 17:36 |
| * Tak doesn't | 17:37 | |
| GeneralAntilles | b0r0las, http://www.gronmayer.com/it tambien. | 17:37 |
| zoran | c/ | 17:38 |
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| thp | where can I upload my SSH key to garage.maemo.org? | 17:42 |
| thp | or: is there ssh access for garage.maemo.org SVN? | 17:42 |
| b0r0las | GeneralAntilles, muchas gracias... es un excelente listado... veo que se puede instalar hasta postgresql :) | 17:46 |
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| coffee88 | Hmmm. any idea why a g_io_add_watch callback with g_io_channel_read_line on it would seem to fire continually?! | 17:52 |
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| Tak | what condition are you watching for? | 17:57 |
| coffee88 | iowatch = g_io_add_watch(netchan, G_IO_IN, io_callback, NULL); | 17:57 |
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| Tak | is there continually data to be read? | 17:58 |
| Tak | is your callback returning FALSE ‽ | 17:59 |
| coffee88 | nope. shouldn't be. server sends manual input line, and msg in callback seems to read back as NULL. calback returns true... | 17:59 |
| coffee88 | DOH! may have spotted something... hold on. | 18:00 |
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| coffee88 | no. I haven't. | 18:00 |
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| coffee88 | callback is at http://www.pastebin.ca/893951 | 18:01 |
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| Tak | hmm - try flushing when you hit end-of-input? | 18:03 |
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| coffee88 | Hmmmm. I'm starting to wonder if it's anything to do with buffers, or lack of them... | 18:04 |
| * coffee88 goes to do more research... | 18:04 | |
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| pupnik | Internet traffic report. What's going on here? http://www.internettrafficreport.com/asia.htm | 18:05 |
| maddler | pupnik: duno... but network is damn slow here (.it) as well... | 18:06 |
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| oil | pupnik: india lost quite a few sea-cables this week/last week. could it be related? | 18:07 |
| oil | ah.. you mean iran? | 18:07 |
| pupnik | Iran is gone. | 18:08 |
| oil | huge emp distroyed it | 18:08 |
| pupnik | Iran was expected to open its oil bourse this week to compete with London and NY. It was expected to trade oil for currencies other than US dollars. | 18:09 |
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| oil | currency should not matter.. but maybe that they would not sell the oil to some countries | 18:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Iran is not gone. | 18:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=444028&cid=22321066 | 18:15 |
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| jott | but florida is gone: http://www.internettrafficreport.com/history/111.htm *scnr* | 18:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I can personally attest to the falsity of THAT particular claim. | 18:16 |
| jott | ;) | 18:16 |
| Tak | ditto | 18:17 |
| jott | internettrafficreport.com is a *very* coarse approximation to the net topology.. | 18:18 |
| blafasel | Yeah, according to that site Germany is out as well.. | 18:20 |
| blafasel | Ping! Can anyone read this? ;) | 18:20 |
| wnd | pong | 18:21 |
| coffee88 | damn. not a buffer issue by the look of it. | 18:22 |
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| lardman | ~lart mobile phone service provider companies | 18:33 |
| * infobot whips mobile phone service provider companies with a wet and grimy noodle just because | 18:34 | |
| Tak | hey! those are /my/ grimy noodles! | 18:34 |
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| pupnik | member function `void SoundTester::test_sound()': | 18:36 |
| pupnik | soundtest.cc:44: error: cannot convert `Font*' to `_XFont_*' in initialization | 18:36 |
| * pupnik bangs head on desk | 18:36 | |
| pupnik | and i can't get a simple #undef Font to apply ... or maybe the scope of it is the problem | 18:37 |
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| lardman | Tak: your noodles because you work for one or because you have the same problems? | 18:42 |
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| Tak | I just like grimy noodles | 18:43 |
| lardman | all good :) | 18:43 |
| lardman | hrw: after my singing the praises of OE, it seems to fail on fontconfig, though it's a problem with the maemo repo | 18:44 |
| lardman | hrw: I thought I might write a maemo specific HowTo get started in the same vein as those old Zaurus ones | 18:44 |
| jott | lardman: still building octave? | 18:46 |
| * jott would be interested in an optimized octave build too :) | 18:47 | |
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| pupnik | ./shapeid.h:30: error: conflicting declaration 'struct Font' | 18:51 |
| pupnik | /usr/include/X11/X.h:105: error: 'Font' has a previous declaration as `typedef XID Font' | 18:51 |
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| pupnik | but... | 18:51 |
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| pupnik | #undef Font | 18:51 |
| pupnik | class Font; | 18:51 |
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| pupnik | why doesn't #undef Font prevent that error | 18:51 |
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| Tak | pupnik: is this c++ code? | 18:52 |
| pupnik | yeah | 18:53 |
| Tak | why not use namespacing to avoid the issue? | 18:53 |
| pupnik | i just added Xsp to exult and the X11 include broke it | 18:53 |
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| pupnik | #include <X11/Xlib.h> that breaks it | 18:53 |
| pupnik | but Xlib.h is required for Xsp i think | 18:53 |
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| zottd | Font is a type, probably cant be #undef | 18:54 |
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| pupnik | hi zodttd :) | 18:55 |
| zodttd | hi :) | 18:55 |
| zodttd | I snuck in here :P | 18:55 |
| pupnik | i'm trying to quickly 'finish' up things i started last year so i can move on | 18:56 |
| zodttd | Try this | 18:56 |
| zodttd | crappy workaround but should work... | 18:57 |
| zodttd | You can typedef before the X11 include: typedef NewFontType Font; | 18:58 |
| zodttd | And #define Font NewFontType | 18:58 |
| zodttd | :P | 18:58 |
| zodttd | Much better ways of going about this though, as Tak implied | 18:58 |
| lardman | jott: Octave is built | 18:58 |
| jott | lardman: ah nice | 18:58 |
| jku | aw crap. my test packages for osso-gpsd had version 1.0-25-jku0. That actually prevents "apt-get upgrade" as osso-software-version depends on a specific version | 18:59 |
| lardman | I'll put it up somewhere tonight when I get home | 18:59 |
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| zodttd | Ah crap, mention of Zaurus...I need to update some stuff on it. | 18:59 |
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| lardman | zodttd: I'd be suprised if my batteries work anymore | 18:59 |
| jott | pupnik: you could also put the xsd code in an extra cpp/h file to avoid any conflicts.. | 18:59 |
| jku | so if enayone did install osso-gpsd 1.0-25-jku0, please install the original version from http://folks.o-hand.com/jku/osso-gpsd/ | 18:59 |
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| lardman | jku: why's that? | 19:00 |
| zodttd | lardman: I think my C1000 is working fine still | 19:00 |
| jku | lardman: osso-software-version depends on a specific osso-gpsd version | 19:00 |
| lardman | zodttd: did you do the ps1 emu? | 19:00 |
| jku | anything else will make apt complain | 19:00 |
| lardman | jku: ah yes, I saw that | 19:00 |
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| pupnik | http://zodttd.com/wp/ | 19:01 |
| zodttd | Yes :) | 19:02 |
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| lardman | how do I get apt to tell me the version again? | 19:02 |
| dragorn | jku: Cool. Good work with those, btw. | 19:02 |
| lardman | zodttd: working on a version for the ITs? | 19:02 |
| zodttd | lardman: ITs? | 19:02 |
| dragorn | jku: tho seeing yet another gpsd clone made me kind of sad :P | 19:02 |
| zodttd | Internet Tablets? | 19:02 |
| lardman | yep | 19:03 |
| zodttd | Ah, look towards pupnik ;P | 19:03 |
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| lardman | what I need is a Nintendo DS emu | 19:03 |
| lardman | so I can play bomberman vs my gf | 19:03 |
| zodttd | lardman: That would work well on the Zaurus :P | 19:03 |
| pupnik | thanks for the tips | 19:03 |
| Tak | I think pupnik compiled desmume | 19:03 |
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| pupnik | what, isn't pcsx fast enough for you? | 19:04 |
| * zodttd ducks | 19:04 | |
| dragorn | lardman: Doubt it would work, the wifi drivers won't let you do the packet injection you need, even if the emu does passthrough | 19:04 |
| matmo | anyone know how to cast/make a gdk window into a gtk window? | 19:04 |
| jku | dragorn, clone? do you mean gypsy or what? | 19:04 |
| dragorn | jku: yeah | 19:04 |
| dragorn | jku: not that gpsd doesn't have it's issues | 19:05 |
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| jku | you can say that again | 19:05 |
| dragorn | jku: but yet another api makes me kinda sad. Especially one that requires dbus/glib. | 19:05 |
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| jku | dragorn: well, I'll take thos instead of tcp/ip sockets any day | 19:07 |
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| pupnik | sucks that xsp has to be enabled *before* sdl_init | 19:07 |
| dragorn | jku: Makes it a total pain in the ass for anyone with a codebase that isn't glib, however. | 19:07 |
| jku | how so? | 19:08 |
| pupnik | someday i'll just discard the sdl-surface, create a fullscreen x window and use mplayer's framebuffer code | 19:08 |
| dragorn | jku: The glib/dbus bindings tend to like to control the main loop. That's not an option, and I'm not rewriting 40,000 lines of code for it :P | 19:09 |
| jku | Yeah, I guess that's true | 19:09 |
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| K-Fox | really , i want to know setting of usb networking . n800 <---> winxp (os2008) | 19:10 |
| K-Fox | how? | 19:10 |
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| dragorn | jku: but believe me, I deeply appreciate how annoying gpsd is | 19:10 |
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| jku | ;) | 19:10 |
| dragorn | jku: about every 6 months I butt heads with them over it | 19:10 |
| dragorn | jku: ESR is pissed at me that I added direct serial gps control into my dev code | 19:11 |
| jku | hah! | 19:11 |
| dragorn | or at least, annoyed. But he often seems annoyed. | 19:11 |
| jku | you work on kismet, right? | 19:11 |
| lardman | WinXP needs a reboot, bbiam | 19:11 |
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| dragorn | yeah | 19:11 |
| K-Fox | uuuu.... | 19:12 |
| dragorn | working on adding mouse support to the new UI right now, actually. Still curses, but will have tap support for most of the interface. | 19:12 |
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| Anidel | -quit | 19:33 |
| Anidel | ops | 19:33 |
| Anidel | bye | 19:33 |
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| Alendit | does anyone have some experiences with aircrack on n800? | 19:34 |
| dragorn | yes. don't bother. | 19:35 |
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| dragorn | The only method which has a chance of being doable on an embedded device requires injection capability, which you don't have. | 19:35 |
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| Alendit | hmkey | 19:37 |
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| hrw | and which you will not get as tablets wifi is totally closed | 19:38 |
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| dragorn | unless you really get excited at the idea of running a brute force attack that would keep a high-end cluster busy for some time, on a handheld. Then by all means knock yourself out. :P | 19:40 |
| lardman | What's the deal with that, I thought someone was working on an open version? | 19:40 |
| dragorn | or if you've got another method of generating injected frames, in which case, why are you trying to do the heavy lifting on a handheld, still. | 19:41 |
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| dragorn | or unless you compiled USB drivers for a NIC with proper support and kicked the device into host mode, i suppose | 19:41 |
| dragorn | lardman: not that I know of. A long long long time ago I saw something where someone got a prism54 driver hacked into working on the 770, but it's been dead since then and I haven't seen anyone pick it up | 19:42 |
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| lardman | ah, and it's a different chipset on the N8x0 anyway isn't it? | 19:42 |
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| dragorn | i'm not sure. I don't think it's significantly different, the nokia drivers have the same name | 19:42 |
| lardman | oh right | 19:43 |
| dragorn | but being generally really busy, and not wanting to nuke my device, I haven't looked into trying to put a .23/.24 kernel on it with the mac80211 prism54 softmac drivers | 19:43 |
| dragorn | I don't know what they'd do | 19:43 |
| dragorn | (probably nothing, since they probably don't have a connection to whatever bus the NIC is on) | 19:43 |
| lardman | :( | 19:45 |
| hrw | I wonder does nokia have docs/sources for chipset. connexant (vendor of wifi chip) is known to not release anything rather | 19:46 |
| lardman | I'm more interested in the PowerVR speaking of closed devices | 19:46 |
| dragorn | hrw: one of the nokia coders (kalle, i think) said on the maemo list that releasing the driver source is not an option | 19:46 |
| hrw | dragorn: exactly | 19:46 |
| dragorn | hrw: and that adding injection is also not an option unless someone can prove a business case for it | 19:46 |
| hrw | lardman: 3d acceleration? | 19:46 |
| lardman | hrw: yep | 19:46 |
| dragorn | apparently "you'll sell a lot of devices in the security market" isn't a good enough reason | 19:46 |
| pupnik | hey jott i have a great idea! how about YOU implement pixel-doubling or accelerated blitting for exult? speeds up display incredibly | 19:47 |
| pupnik | got it built here but have the usual hellish xsp garbage | 19:47 |
| lardman | Anyone know of any code that does call tree analysis/diagrams? | 19:50 |
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| lardman | Might have to sit down and write one in MATLAB | 19:50 |
| lardman | bbiab | 19:52 |
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| Navi | In what order should the maemo-sdk be built in? | 19:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The correct one. | 19:59 |
| Navi | Oh, of course! | 19:59 |
| * Navi hits GeneralAntilles with an old newspaper | 19:59 | |
| Navi | ^_^ | 20:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Check the maemo.org tutorial? | 20:00 |
| K-Fox | really , i want to know setting of usb networking . n800 <---> winxp (os2008) | 20:00 |
| Navi | That wiki fuxxix up with the newest gecko revision :| | 20:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://davehylands.com/linux/gumstix/usbnet/ | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then don't use the newest Gecko revision. | 20:01 |
| Navi | But... but.. you're mean ;_; | 20:01 |
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| K-Fox | http://davehylands.com/linux/gumstix/usbnet/ >< | 20:02 |
| K-Fox | this is right? | 20:02 |
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| Navi | GeneralAntilles, I'm going to kill you with my lasgun. | 20:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | maemo doesn't have lasguns. | 20:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's one option, I suppose, K-Fox. | 20:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have no experience with Windows, though. | 20:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Try this maybe, K-Fox. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22usbnet%22+OR+%22usb+networking%22+windows+xp&btnG=Search | 20:04 |
| pupnik | ah fixed it woot | 20:05 |
| Alendit | time for some ads... | 20:06 |
| Alendit | if you want to have whole wikipedia on your nokia (3,2gb english, 1gb german) visit http://alendit.blogspot.com/2008/02/mokopedia-wikipedia-in-your-pocket.html | 20:07 |
| Alendit | :P | 20:07 |
| K-Fox | GeneralAntilles : thanks.. | 20:07 |
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| Mousey | say. why isn't dhcp rewriting my resolv.conf? | 20:09 |
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| Jaffa | maemo uses dnsmasq | 20:17 |
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| elb | the wireless on this 810 is suspiciously slow | 20:22 |
| elb | I had thought it might be scp, but http isn't a ton faster | 20:22 |
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| elb | perhaps wpa is muddling it up | 20:23 |
| K-Fox | what is gumstix? | 20:23 |
| pupnik | i get about 700kB/s on n810 with WEP elb | 20:25 |
| pupnik | will test again | 20:25 |
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| elb | that's about what I'm seeing with WPA | 20:26 |
| elb | but I would expect more like twice that, if it were saturating the network | 20:27 |
| pupnik | how are you measuring | 20:27 |
| elb | watching pull times for a large (150MB) file | 20:28 |
| pupnik | via scp, nfs, samba, wget, browser download? of LAN or Web? | 20:32 |
| elb | browser download, LAN | 20:33 |
| elb | as I said before, my first test was scp, and I thought it might have been that overhead | 20:34 |
| elb | but http via the browser wasn't significantly faster | 20:34 |
| Tak | what about media write speed? | 20:34 |
| elb | surely the internal flash isn't slower htan 802.11g | 20:34 |
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| * sp3000 wonders why maemo-mapper decided to grab 31 8188kB chunks of memory | 21:11 | |
| sp3000 | (virtual size, resident is just 16kB for most of those) | 21:12 |
| sp3000 | so my device is being all sorry dave I can't let you browse the web now :) | 21:13 |
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| * sp3000 fetches some sp-endurance goodness for tracking the sucker | 21:14 | |
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| juke | hi | 21:22 |
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| juke | does the N810 charging when only usb is plugged ? | 21:25 |
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| elb | juke: no | 21:26 |
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| Tak | juke: No, it charges any time the AC power is plugged in | 21:27 |
| juke | :( | 21:27 |
| elb | (unless it thinks it's charged) | 21:27 |
| Tak | well, yes | 21:27 |
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| lardman | jott: you after Octave? | 21:33 |
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| lardman | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/OE_feed/ | 21:34 |
| lardman | not quite a real feed as there's no packages list, must work that one out | 21:35 |
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| lardman | oh yes, and a vfp libm in there, so you ought to do some LD_LIBRARY magic when running them to get the best performance | 21:36 |
| lardman | s/LD_LIBRARY/LD_LIBRARY_PATH of course | 21:36 |
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| pupnik | can i make a .deb that app manager will install regardless of OS version? | 21:45 |
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| Tak | depends on the dependencies | 21:46 |
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| pupnik | i'd like to do an installer that installs game data for exult | 21:50 |
| pupnik | without requiring shell | 21:50 |
| Tak | yeah, you should be able to install a game data installer deb on any OS | 21:51 |
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| pupnik | Tak: but not if it's 30 MB and user has 20 MB free, right? | 21:56 |
| Tak | it depends - if the game data is all contained in the deb, then no. | 21:57 |
| Tak | You could have the user download a tar.gz to, say, /media/mmc1/, then have the deb just be a script to install it correctly | 21:58 |
| Tak | or you could have the deb be a script that downloads and installs a tar.gz | 21:59 |
| pupnik | ok that's the simplest. deb will install wget | 22:00 |
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| ||cw | can you have a deb ask for the dir to install to and let the user choose the mmc or whatever? will application manager freak out about it? | 22:02 |
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| keesj | ||cw: I think this is possible (specialy for data) , just like asking for the memu options | 22:05 |
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| lardman | isn't the size field checked by app manager? | 22:07 |
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| lardman | does anyone know of a script that will generate a Packages file? | 22:09 |
| Tak | let me see if I still have mine | 22:09 |
| lardman | thanks | 22:09 |
| Tak | also, you should be using garage extras :-P | 22:10 |
| lardman | once I learn how to sumbit packages, then yes | 22:10 |
| lardman | or even submit them | 22:10 |
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| Tak | oh, dpkg-scanpackages | 22:15 |
| maddler | hey all | 22:15 |
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| lardman | Tak: ah, ok thanks. Will do that when I get back to Linux-land | 22:16 |
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| lardman | hi maddler | 22:16 |
| jott | lardman: http://mirrorer.alioth.debian.org/ reprepro is quite nice for repository creation/management | 22:18 |
| jott | fetching your octave now ;) | 22:18 |
| jott | have you tested the performance impact of the vfp libm? | 22:18 |
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| lardman | jott: no, and in fact this is a new build so I don't even know that it works ;) | 22:18 |
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| jott | hehe kk ;) done with oe? | 22:19 |
| lardman | jott: actually that not quite true, I've tested the impact of vfp libm, just not with octave | 22:19 |
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| lardman | jott: no, OE is great, just been pretty busy today, and had to rebuild my computer over the weekend | 22:19 |
| jott | ah yeah.. | 22:19 |
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| lardman | what was the conclusion of the extras feed anyway, how does one upload stuff? | 22:20 |
| jott | how significant is the performance difference (like when using a vfp enabled build with a non vfp libm)? | 22:20 |
| lardman | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/ might have something | 22:21 |
| jott | (and the testcase for sure if it only uses regular floating point operations and very few sqrt/.../libm functions it will not be that drastic ;-) | 22:21 |
| lardman | hmm, I had nbench compiled somewhere | 22:22 |
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| lardman | right, here's a comparison for vfp compiled nbench with and without vfp libm | 22:24 |
| lardman | wihout - http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006382.html (just the omap2420 results) | 22:24 |
| lardman | with - http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006460.html | 22:24 |
| lardman | look at the results for Fourier for example | 22:24 |
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| lardman | and this is the code so they aren't just random numbers ;) http://www.tux.org/~mayer/linux/bmark.html | 22:25 |
| jott | and now the magic question, how would a vfp libm perform with other non vfp libs ;) | 22:25 |
| lardman | that I don't know, but just work some LD_LIBRARY_PATH magic and test | 22:25 |
| jott | yeah will do, later.. | 22:26 |
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| lardman | I run Octave from a script after setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the vfp libm, need to do some speed comparisons | 22:26 |
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| jott | lardman: ok so the fourier slowness is due to the extensive pow usage i suppose :) | 22:31 |
| jott | lardman: do you know some good libm focused benchmark on top of your head? otherwise i might craw netlib a bit :) | 22:33 |
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| Tama^2 | Hello | 23:14 |
| ds3 | anyone else bugged by the on hover CSS used by ITT? | 23:15 |
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