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| florian | re | 00:19 |
|---|---|---|
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| shackan | people, nokia acquired trolltech, comments? | 00:47 |
| zerojay | Good. | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | See ITT | 00:48 |
| zerojay | Hopefully we can get rid of GTK finally. | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somehow I doubt it. ;) | 00:48 |
| zerojay | Webkit comes built into QT 4.1 also. | 00:48 |
| zerojay | Would make a web browser easy and much less resource intensive. | 00:49 |
| Tak | ugh - if qt were the only option, I'd stop developing | 00:49 |
| zerojay | That's too bad because GTK's really horrible... and I also don't like developing when every minor version is a major binary break. | 00:49 |
| shackan | GeneralAntilles: are there "official" positions or ITT ? | 00:49 |
| zerojay | Nothing's stable. | 00:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, but there aren't any here, either. | 00:50 |
| shackan | *on | 00:50 |
| shackan | :( | 00:50 |
| zerojay | I can say authoritatively that my position is my OFFICIAL position. :) | 00:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, GTK vs Qt seems to be a nicely polarized debate. | 00:50 |
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| shackan | it's an endless, pointless debate, really | 00:51 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: It is, but only among those that think that QT is still proprietary or haven't touched it. | 00:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't seem that way to me. | 00:51 |
| zerojay | As a programmer, it makes your life so much easier. | 00:51 |
| zerojay | The only real downside is that it's mainly C++... so your code will take longer to build, but that's not too big a deal. | 00:52 |
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| zerojay | You don't have to worry about major technology changes coming out of the blue. | 00:52 |
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| zerojay | GTK seems to change major portions every other release. | 00:53 |
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| zerojay | A month after a GTK release and suddenly the next version comes out and everything's broken all over again and you have to run around and fix it again... | 00:54 |
| zerojay | You just lose soo much time on that crap. | 00:54 |
| fysa | I don't know, I've seen it on both sides of the fence. | 00:55 |
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| fysa | We need a universal GUI standard that Gtk and Qt can both 'interpret' :) | 00:55 |
| zerojay | I got tired of the whole dance... every month or so "here's a new library to do what you did before with this other library"... and then the month afterwards it gets completely scrapped yet again for something else. | 00:55 |
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| zerojay | What we saw when we went from 2007 to 2008 and everything was incompatible? | 00:57 |
| pupnik | competition does also have benefits | 00:57 |
| zerojay | That's nothing. | 00:57 |
| zerojay | Just wait. | 00:57 |
| zerojay | And you can bet your bottom dollar that it will end up happening to us again with 2009. | 00:57 |
| zerojay | Not through any fault of Nokia's either. | 00:57 |
| zerojay | Because it's the same thing that's been happening with GNOME over and over and over again. | 00:58 |
| fysa | pupnik: you ever tried that esd patch for snes9x? I have the alsa-oss deb built but have not tested it on my device yet. | 00:58 |
| unique311 | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6130671439814482986&hl=en qt coverflow alternative.. | 00:58 |
| fysa | the linux desktop is in perpetual infancy. | 00:59 |
| unique311 | even i got it to do fullscreen and mapped a key. | 00:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 00:59 |
| unique311 | i vote for the QT | 00:59 |
| unique311 | lol | 00:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's keeping us from having it both ways? | 00:59 |
| pupnik | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/27362 maybe that would help fysa | 00:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Qt and GTK can live together on the same system, right? | 00:59 |
| zerojay | Yes. | 00:59 |
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| zerojay | Though on the tablets, it makes no sense. | 00:59 |
| pupnik | yes | 01:00 |
| zerojay | bbl | 01:00 |
| Veggen | GA: but on limited-resources-devices like these, you *really* want to avoid using them at the same time per default. | 01:00 |
| pupnik | that pictureflow looks really good | 01:01 |
| Veggen | GA: limited the amount of shared libraries needed to be loaded simultaneously is a priority. | 01:01 |
| fysa | our environment is already on the edge of too heavy. | 01:01 |
| unique311 | slow right now. | 01:01 |
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| fysa | but it will be cheaper for nokia to just gve us a 600MHz device with 256MB RAM ;) | 01:02 |
| * GeneralAntilles likes that idea. | 01:02 | |
| glass | hehe | 01:02 |
| pupnik | kde is too slow pn my p3 950mhz | 01:02 |
| glass | give it 12 months | 01:02 |
| unique311 | 600, why not 1Ghz | 01:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd take a mm or two of thickness for better battery life/performance, too. | 01:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | unique311, battery life. | 01:02 |
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| glass | then one could even make an educated guess what nokia is really going to do with tt | 01:02 |
| unique311 | make it a little chunkt | 01:03 |
| unique311 | y | 01:03 |
| glass | wider device range would be good | 01:03 |
| glass | for maemo | 01:03 |
| pupnik | glass++ | 01:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Definitely. | 01:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd take a largish keyboardless model with lots of internal storage myself. ;) | 01:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | +reasonable gaming controls. | 01:04 |
| fysa | I want thinner, wider and same height | 01:04 |
| unique311 | so with diablo and then the following os...anyone think QT4 will make an official appearance on the device | 01:04 |
| glass | GeneralAntilles: i'd take that too | 01:04 |
| fysa | unfortunately it looks like we may be stuck at this resolution for some time | 01:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Size reduction from the N800 really doesn't appeal to me at all. | 01:04 |
| glass | unique311: i don't think qt will make an appearance in a year on anything nokia | 01:05 |
| fysa | it's not a horrible resolution | 01:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | fysa, with Mylo 2's insane dpi, I wonder if Nokia might consider pushing it up to 1024xwhatever. | 01:05 |
| fysa | but I would like to see the same ppi/dpi but with another 200 of width | 01:05 |
| glass | i'd like there to be good fast scaler in hw too | 01:06 |
| fysa | anyway | 01:06 |
| glass | to go along with emus and those gaming controls i'd wish | 01:06 |
| fysa | better get back to work before I enter dreamland for good ;) | 01:06 |
| fysa | bbiab | 01:06 |
| jeff1f | The screen on the Sony UX is a great size and res | 01:06 |
| kupesoft | I got aircrack working with a usb dongle ;p | 01:07 |
| kupesoft | on an n800 | 01:07 |
| pupnik | nice | 01:07 |
| pupnik | what chipset | 01:07 |
| blahdeblah | Does anyone know whose cage i can rattle to get https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1896 fixed? This inability to download anything in maemo extras is starting to get on my nerves! | 01:07 |
| |tbb| | kupesoft, with usb powered hub? | 01:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | 6.5" diagonal I believ, fysa. | 01:07 |
| johnx | too bad the rest of the sony ux is a brick | 01:08 |
| pupnik | an 'old person' tablet with less dpi would be good too | 01:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 01:08 |
| johnx | proper font scaling would be nice | 01:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | old people. . . . | 01:08 |
| fysa | I would like a device with a screen that goes to the edge, then you can buy four and stack them for a larger screen ;) | 01:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, that's a bad idea. | 01:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Better to just have a little resolution independence. ;) | 01:08 |
| johnx | the problem is that every program assumes it's running on a 96dpi screen and the GUI layout isn't flexible enough | 01:09 |
| fysa | carry one in each pocket | 01:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Put them together and you turn into Darth Maul, fysa? :P | 01:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd like to see the N810 branch off into an E-series sort of deal—keyboard, low storage, small | 01:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | while the N800 stays with the N-series as keyboardless (maybe), lots of storage, and larger. | 01:12 |
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| johnx | but where does that leave the clamshell/tablet styled Nxxx that I want? :P | 01:15 |
| kupesoft | |tbb|: Yup | 01:15 |
| kupesoft | pupnik: rt73 | 01:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx-series. | 01:15 |
| kupesoft | pupnik: But the aircrack-ng tools are sluggish, | 01:15 |
| kupesoft | to be expected, though | 01:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Maybe the E would make a good clamshell. | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | A N-Gage branded model could be interesting. | 01:17 |
| * Cymor is back (gone 23:44:04) | 01:18 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Though that comes with a lot of baggage. | 01:18 |
| fysa | we're still the bastard children for another generation I fear. | 01:18 |
| johnx | heh...I don't know if anything with that naming could ever sell | 01:18 |
| johnx | unless they do a "side talking is cool" campaign or something | 01:18 |
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| lardman|afk | night all | 01:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm afeared of the ITs losing too much of their hacker-appeal in the trip to consumer-appeal. | 01:19 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I'm not. | 01:19 |
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| johnx | As long as they run Linux and are "hackable" (ie are mostly open source, come with an x server) I think the Linux-heads will still be interested | 01:19 |
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| johnx | In fact, except for the annoying closed source bits I'm pretty happy with the way that Nokia has handled the N8x0 as an overall platform | 01:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody should put together an Open Letter about those bits. | 01:21 |
| johnx | that might be good...but I don't think it will change anything | 01:22 |
| fysa | I don't think Nokia is going to listen until these devices come out of the backwater and show up as meaningful numbers on their balance sheet. | 01:22 |
| |tbb| | is it know how much battery you will save while running your it in offline mode instead of normal idle mode (not connected and not auto search for wlan) | 01:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Very little if there's nothing trying to use Bluetooth or Wifi. | 01:25 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wants a working soft poweroff mode back. | 01:26 | |
| fysa | I was able to install Powerlaunch.. | 01:26 |
| tbf | hmm.... no trolltech faq link in /topic? | 01:26 |
| tbf | strange | 01:26 |
| fysa | and I believe it added soft poweroff to my power menu | 01:26 |
| fysa | but I have no idea how to configure anything else for it yet ;0 | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | tbf, is it really relevant to the GTK-based maemo. ;) | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does it get around the brokenness of soft poweroff, though? | 01:27 |
| tbf | GeneralAntilles: considering nokia's bochum actions? HELL, YES! | 01:28 |
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| fysa | What am I looking for? | 01:28 |
| fysa | (or for it not to do, rather) | 01:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Wake up with touchscreen input. | 01:29 |
| fysa | You do want it to wake up? | 01:29 |
| fysa | 'Soft poweroff' -> screen instantly goes black | 01:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | . . . and, more seriously, do you think anybody has actually had time/information enough to compile an FAQ about it when it was only announced today? | 01:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, fysa. | 01:29 |
| fysa | then I have to touch power to go back on | 01:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia's broken implementation just blanks the screen and breaks some stuff. | 01:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then wakes up with touchscreen input when it shouldn't. | 01:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, right, it's working then. | 01:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Interesting. | 01:30 |
| fysa | my only complaint is that the power menu is still there when I wake it up ;) | 01:30 |
| fysa | but that's because I'm hitting the power button to wake it back up.. | 01:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can you hold the power button to activate it? | 01:30 |
| fysa | just a tap activates | 01:30 |
| fysa | (on the power button) | 01:30 |
| fysa | sorry, not screen tap ;) | 01:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | er, sorry, to activate soft poweroff. | 01:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Rather than wake from it. | 01:31 |
| tbf | GeneralAntilles: well, it's known for over 12 hours know. i would have thought, i am late with asking what that acquisition means for gtk based maemo | 01:31 |
| fysa | heh | 01:31 |
| fysa | holding down power, screen goes blank after 2 seconds.. | 01:31 |
| fysa | then wakes up as soon as I let go ;) | 01:31 |
| pupnik | did you look into the libesddsp thing fysa ? | 01:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | We're, mostly, just a bunch of internet losers and don't have any ideas about Nokia's inside plans. | 01:31 |
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| pupnik | i've built the libraries and esddsp but am getting an error | 01:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/ideas/information/ | 01:32 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: We're, mostly, just a bunch of internet losers and don't have any information about Nokia's inside plans. | 01:32 |
| pupnik | ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/local/lib/esound/libesddsp.so.0' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. | 01:32 |
| fysa | not yet, pup. have a few more things to do for work then I will be in ITT land | 01:32 |
| fysa | check dmesg? | 01:32 |
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| pupnik | holy crap i got the strangest sound on reboot | 01:34 |
| pupnik | must be the new libesd :) | 01:35 |
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| kup | hi. dia for os2008: http://kup.vdst-aachen.de/dia_0.96.1-1_armel.deb. my first attempt to port an app to maemo | 01:37 |
| johnx | cool | 01:37 |
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| johnx | I'll look at that in a bit | 01:37 |
| pupnik | very nice kup - people will love that | 01:39 |
| kup | http://kup.vdst-aachen.de/screenshot00.png | 01:39 |
| kup | http://kup.vdst-aachen.de/screenshot01.png | 01:39 |
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| lcuk | building linux apps properly is like making your own lightsabre | 01:44 |
| pupnik | hehe | 01:44 |
| lcuk | i still cant get a stable linux ide sorted, but by weekend i will have a jedi robe | 01:44 |
| glass | linux apps arent bad usually | 01:45 |
| lcuk | no, but the ide i have set my heart on needs a version which is source only for the maemo addin to work | 01:45 |
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| lcuk | so now im fighting with the stuff ki want the ide to handle so i can build the ide i want | 01:46 |
| johnx | lcuk, which IDE did you decide on? | 01:46 |
| lcuk | anjuta for now at least | 01:46 |
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| lcuk_2 | there is a maemo project builder and the interface is based on the same gtk code editor and it feels much more like an ide than a jungle (eclipse..) | 01:48 |
| johnx | understandable | 01:48 |
| lcuk_2 | iso now i am fighting to get it compiled and running with the version that the maemo addin requires and i have figured the ./configure bit and managed the make bit and did the install bit but had a few (i thought minor) files missing and now it wont run | 01:49 |
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| lcuk_2 | sbut its progress, at least its stuff i have compiled that isnt running | 01:49 |
| pupnik | holy ffff | 01:50 |
| pupnik | it's not the n810 speakers that are distorted! | 01:50 |
| lcuk_2 | so once i am done being sidetracked by a fancy dress custome nightmare i will be doing it all properly, ill let the linux compiling notes sink in for a couple of days | 01:50 |
| johnx | lcuk_2, you're using ubuntu under vmware, right? | 01:50 |
| lcuk_2 | 810 speakers are really nice | 01:50 |
| pupnik | running /etc/init.d/esd restart with new esd gives perfectly clear sound! | 01:50 |
| lcuk_2 | i like the sound coming out of them | 01:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, now that IS interesting. | 01:51 |
| pupnik | yeah but there is some kind of bug | 01:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | File a bug on bugzilla? | 01:51 |
| lcuk_2 | johnx i think its ubuntu, well xubuntu. its the maemovmware package from the garage | 01:51 |
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| lcuk_2 | its xfce | 01:51 |
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| lcuk_2 | take a look, is this latest ubuntu? http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ | 01:52 |
| johnx | lcuk_2, I think there are binary debs for anjuta 2.3.1 | 01:53 |
| * lcuk_2 wouldnt know his badger from his warthog | 01:53 | |
| |tbb| | nite all | 01:53 |
| lcuk_2 | i couldnt find them... | 01:53 |
| lcuk_2 | nite tbb | 01:53 |
| lcuk_2 | i searched the site | 01:53 |
| johnx | 'night |tbb| | 01:53 |
| lcuk_2 | i searched google | 01:53 |
| lcuk_2 | i searched the computer | 01:53 |
| johnx | http://anjuta.org/apt/ | 01:53 |
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| johnx | looks like they're on the anjuta site unless I'm confused | 01:54 |
| lcuk_2 | ::O | 01:54 |
| johnx | from the downloads page: http://anjuta.sourceforge.net/downloads | 01:54 |
| johnx | look for "apt repo" on the page | 01:54 |
| johnx | the trick to being a linux jedi is knowing when to follow the other guy who already has his light saber put together... | 01:55 |
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| lcuk_2 | i thought i had, and i tried adding that as a source, but on the software packages thing in vmware the style of the repo looked different so i added the one below it which included universe | 01:55 |
| lcuk_2 | i did this one: | 01:55 |
| lcuk_2 | Ubuntu gusty repository | 01:55 |
| lcuk_2 | 1. Add deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/robster/ubuntu gutsy universe in your /etc/apt/sources.list | 01:55 |
| lcuk_2 | no other sources looked the same :'( | 01:56 |
| lcuk_2 | i could hug you john | 01:56 |
| lcuk_2 | thank you :) | 01:56 |
| johnx | test it before you do something so rash...heh | 01:56 |
| johnx | gutsy is probably the right version | 01:57 |
| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: media player is distorted, mplayer is distorted | 01:57 |
| lcuk_2 | i did that and refreshed my sources and tried to get it but it just reinstalled 2.2 | 01:57 |
| lcuk_2 | ill just grab the deb (after i have kicked myself) | 01:57 |
| johnx | er... | 01:57 |
| lcuk_2 | no john, not your method | 01:57 |
| johnx | well...ubuntu will warn you about dependency stuff so it's worth a shot | 01:58 |
| lcuk_2 | i meant how i went wrong | 01:58 |
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| johnx | I know but the one I pointed you at is for feisty (7.04) not gutsy (7.10) | 01:58 |
| johnx | you're probably on 7.10 | 01:58 |
| johnx | as long as the dependencies resolve you're probably ok | 01:58 |
| lcuk_2 | but its a damn .deb file. john, you have overtaken even the mighty google this evening | 01:59 |
| lcuk_2 | i am going to johnx everything from now on ;) | 01:59 |
| johnx | heh | 01:59 |
| johnx | I just know more of what I'm looking for (and also I stumbled into the *wrong* repo) | 02:00 |
| johnx | also, looks like other people are having issues building anjuta as well | 02:00 |
| johnx | "IDE, compile thyself!" | 02:00 |
| lcuk_2 | i know that, i managed to sort out a whole lot of problems before hand, but its been good in a way | 02:01 |
| lcuk_2 | i had impotus to actually do something and needed to get it done | 02:01 |
| lcuk_2 | theres no point in staying blind forever | 02:01 |
| johnx | definitely | 02:01 |
| johnx | just be thankful this isn't 10 years ago :) | 02:01 |
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| lcuk_2 | 10 years ago, the only difference was that you read "complin~1.txt" from some floppy disk you got from the guy down the road | 02:02 |
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| lcuk_2 | it is all build from very small blocks but damn they are hidden away for most other dev environments | 02:03 |
| johnx | no, 10 years ago was "Want the latest GNOME 0.54? Then follow these simple steps to compile each package by hand, because no one will package it for your distro in the next 6 months" | 02:03 |
| johnx | I meant 10 years ago in Linux-land | 02:04 |
| johnx | Linux today is positively user-friendly | 02:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ehehe | 02:04 |
| lcuk_2 | yes for the end-end user,m but i had to dive in and understand what to do to get it working | 02:04 |
| lcuk_2 | if this had been a paper version it would have notes all over it now: http://www.luv.asn.au/overheads/compile.html | 02:05 |
| lcuk_2 | i kept flipping back and forward to it, it was actually quite a nice simple start and helped explain a lot | 02:05 |
| pupnik | o... m... g.. the speakers sound so good | 02:05 |
| johnx | yeah, fair enough. gcc hasn't gotten any simpler to use | 02:06 |
| lcuk_2 | was "just enough" to get me on the road | 02:06 |
| lcuk_2 | pup, mine have sounded good from day 1, whats been wrong with them | 02:06 |
| pupnik | horribly distorted when playing system sounds and mp3s and movies | 02:07 |
| pupnik | very quiet and *very* distorted | 02:07 |
| pupnik | from the factory | 02:07 |
| lcuk_2 | ooer, and what did you change (ill do a taste test) | 02:07 |
| pupnik | but the esd demon i just built ... when i restart it, it's perfectly clear and painfully loud | 02:07 |
| pupnik | sttrange | 02:08 |
| lcuk_2 | the only sound problem i have had is that the headphones are almost silent in one ear unless i press the mic/remote button | 02:08 |
| pupnik | hmm | 02:08 |
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| fysa | nice | 02:10 |
| lcuk_2 | how do i find out which version of linux is on the desktop? | 02:10 |
| lcuk_2 | (as in ubuntu version) | 02:11 |
| johnx | system -> about ubuntu | 02:11 |
| johnx | ah xubuntu | 02:11 |
| johnx | hmm | 02:11 |
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| lcuk_2 | cant i open the about applet from the command line (does it still exist) | 02:12 |
| leandroal | hi there. How can I change the wireless access point via programming code in maemo platform? I have the following code (http://paste-it.net/6067) that works perfectly in my laptop, but when use in maemo, the wlan0 interface disconnect but not connect to the new ESSID. Any clue? | 02:12 |
| johnx | that applet was a gnome thing... | 02:12 |
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| leandroal | this function, setEssid receives two parameters, the interface and the new ESSID. | 02:13 |
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| jott | lcuk_2: cat /etc/lsb-release | 02:13 |
| lcuk_2 | excellent jott, thanks :) ubuntu 7.10 gutsy | 02:15 |
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| fysa | pupnik: so what's up with this volume thing? you're saying it gets *way* louder? | 02:16 |
| fysa | has anyone tried running amixer/alsa-mixer? | 02:17 |
| pupnik | much louder and *clearer* | 02:17 |
| pupnik | imagine hooking a telephone receiver up to a stereo amplifier | 02:17 |
| fysa | less tin/real bass? | 02:17 |
| pupnik | yes | 02:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Same effect for the N800? | 02:18 |
| fysa | interesting | 02:18 |
| pupnik | i'm going to record an example of this | 02:19 |
| fysa | my debian/rules or lintian-overrides must not be setup right or something. my alsa-oss deb installs but it's as if the "make install" doesn't run. | 02:21 |
| fysa | it probably doesn't help that this is the first .deb I've ever really built. | 02:21 |
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| pupnik | i can't quite get rid of the distortion. but the esd startup sound is perfect | 02:36 |
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| fysa | it sounds like it's likely still too high? | 02:37 |
| fysa | run mplayer with vol=230 (where 100 is default) to get decent sound | 02:37 |
| fysa | er, I run | 02:38 |
| fysa | but it will clip on occasion? | 02:38 |
| fysa | maybe they tweaked the bass down to deal with rattling speakers? | 02:38 |
| fysa | *shrugs* :P | 02:38 |
| * fysa goes back to dh_make | 02:38 | |
| Doni^ | hmm. seems that i was wrong that the rtcommm made my table unstable. it's the damn bluetooth connection that does it. | 02:39 |
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| Doni^ | anyone else here with tablet reboots when on the internet thru BT+3G etc? | 02:39 |
| lcuk_2 | yoWANRING: the nokia n810 is NOT designed to fix an unstable table | 02:40 |
| fysa | haha | 02:40 |
| Doni^ | tablet. :D | 02:40 |
| Doni^ | i lolled. | 02:40 |
| Doni^ | damn. i myst be tired. | 02:40 |
| Doni^ | must even. and my connection lags here. sorry for the typos. | 02:40 |
| lcuk_2 | :D heh, so you have table lags | 02:40 |
| Doni^ | hah | 02:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, Doni^. | 02:41 |
| Doni^ | hmm. it's just weird with the darn n810. bt+3g works well until i idle for a while. after that the keyboard stops working. and usually within 15 secs or so the thing reboots. | 02:41 |
| lcuk_2 | i can typo with the bes tof them simple solution: dont idle | 02:42 |
| zerojay | You're tripping the watchdog somehow. | 02:42 |
| lcuk_2 | damn - forgot to delete | 02:42 |
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| Doni^ | zerojay: i'm thinking that too. however no clue how to troubleshoot. | 02:44 |
| Doni^ | seems that i don't get the same problem using wlan. | 02:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Have you installed something? | 02:45 |
| Doni^ | been doing extensive testing the whole evening. no problems with wlan, had 3 reboots in ~20 minutes using bt. | 02:45 |
| Doni^ | yes. that's why i'm thinking to reflash and try with a fresh installation. | 02:45 |
| lcuk_2 | did it used to work (or appear to) or have you just started using the bt 3g side of things | 02:46 |
| Doni^ | well i have had this thing now for 5 days of which i've been playing around for about three. | 02:47 |
| Doni^ | noticed the problem yesterday when i was trying to use it more where i don't have a wlan. | 02:47 |
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| Doni^ | googling seems to be tricky. | 02:51 |
| Doni^ | damn. i'll just reflash the thing tomorrow and try wo any applications. | 02:51 |
| Doni^ | the only suspicious thing i've done was the rtcomm upgrade to get msn etc in the built in IM | 02:51 |
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| Doni^ | anyway. going to hit the hay now. almost 3am here. got to be at the office at 9. | 02:54 |
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| madar | hello all, does anyone know if there is a package out there for slocate for 2008 yet? | 02:54 |
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| johnx | rtcomm has been known to cause other problems in the past | 02:55 |
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| Doni^ | johnx: i suspect that actually. well i could use pidgin, but the built in thing is a lot nicer | 02:57 |
| Robot101 | that was just a bad data file... my fault... it was just causing reboots outright, nothing to do with any bluetooth | 02:57 |
| Robot101 | was trying to get the IRC backend to not use the address book so it would go a lot faster | 02:57 |
| johnx | Doni^, there's a gateway on jablet.net that you connect to via jabber (default, builtin) and then it connects to AIM/MSN/Yahoo/etc for you | 02:59 |
| zerojay | jablet.org | 03:01 |
| zerojay | Jabber server runs on .org. | 03:01 |
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| johnx | ah | 03:02 |
| johnx | but he'll have to register on jablet.net :) | 03:02 |
| zerojay | No. | 03:02 |
| zerojay | .org | 03:02 |
| johnx | a | 03:02 |
| johnx | ah | 03:02 |
| johnx | ok | 03:02 |
| johnx | sorry, .org was taking forever to connect | 03:02 |
| zerojay | Right now? | 03:02 |
| johnx | and .net comes up first in a google for jablet | 03:02 |
| johnx | yes, right now | 03:03 |
| zerojay | We don't have a web server running on .org. | 03:03 |
| zerojay | All the web stuff is on .net | 03:03 |
| zerojay | It's confusing, but you can blame it on Dreamhost for their shitty Jabber server. | 03:03 |
| johnx | well I was giving him a link to find out about the service... so .net was correct, yes? | 03:04 |
| * johnx is confused | 03:04 | |
| zerojay | Yeah.. specifically the forum has the information needed to sign up. | 03:04 |
| zerojay | Not that hard. | 03:04 |
| zerojay | Jabber = .org | 03:04 |
| zerojay | Everything else = .net | 03:04 |
| johnx | alright, I'll be more specific in the future... | 03:05 |
| zerojay | Again, it's because I wanted to give everyone something better than Dreamhost's Jabber server. | 03:05 |
| zerojay | Which was total crap. | 03:05 |
| zerojay | The one on .org is one I run myself with all the bells and whistles. | 03:05 |
| johnx | btw, thanks for the jablet stuff | 03:06 |
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| zerojay | No problem. | 03:06 |
| johnx | it's the thing that keeps me from being tempted to install scary rtcomm betas :) | 03:06 |
| zerojay | It's a little sad to see it's not used as much anymore since RTCOMM came out. | 03:06 |
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| ajturner | anyone know if the flasher works under Mac os x Leopard? | 03:12 |
| ajturner | I keep getting "Bad CPU type in executable" | 03:12 |
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| petergunn | anyone got a BT mouse that pairs with the n800? | 03:39 |
| dragorn | The holux sirf3 one does so fine | 03:43 |
| kup | nokia ld-3w | 03:44 |
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| johnx | petergunn, I think people on ITT might have but there's still issues making a cursor show up | 03:45 |
| dragorn | oh | 03:46 |
| dragorn | I read "bt mouse" and assumed you meant the bt gps units which some people call mice or pucks. | 03:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | ajturner, run it under Rosetta. | 03:46 |
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| ajturner | GeneralAntilles: turns out the problem was that Safari was corrupting the download | 03:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or that. | 03:47 |
| ajturner | worked fine in Firefox | 03:47 |
| ajturner | from FF | 03:47 |
| ajturner | not the best "out of the box" experience :) | 03:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ajturner, who said it would be? | 03:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Really, that's something that most reviews specifically hit on. | 03:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | The power comes later. ;) | 03:52 |
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| ajturner | GeneralAntilles: the ads for the N810 definitely don't show enough geeks hunched over a USB cable running terminal ;) | 03:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's always 770Flasher | 03:59 |
| ajturner | another simple issue is the App Manager - it's definitely aimed at Devs | 04:00 |
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| ajturner | typical users probably don't care about Version and Size | 04:00 |
| ajturner | they'd care more about category | 04:00 |
| johnx | users might care how much space it takes | 04:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 04:00 |
| johnx | but actually...devs don't like it either | 04:00 |
| johnx | no one likes it | 04:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | At least it remembers your position now. | 04:01 |
| ajturner | I love that most apps also have meaningless titles and the title as description | 04:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Blame the packagers for that. | 04:02 |
| johnx | heh...well that's bad packaging | 04:02 |
| ajturner | what is the GPS setting for N810? | 04:05 |
| ajturner | File or GPSD? | 04:05 |
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| johnx | ajturner, is this for maemo mapper? | 04:06 |
| ajturner | yes | 04:06 |
| johnx | try selecting bluetooth with the bluetooth field blank | 04:10 |
| johnx | that appears to be the official word from gnuite for now | 04:12 |
| ajturner | cool | 04:13 |
| ajturner | that seems to be working | 04:14 |
| johnx | how's the builtin GPS working for you? | 04:14 |
| ajturner | well, I'm indoors ;) | 04:15 |
| ajturner | stuck it in window | 04:15 |
| lcdd | it never worked indoors for me | 04:18 |
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| ajturner | yeah, didn't get a fix | 04:22 |
| ajturner | not good coverage out of the window | 04:22 |
| fysa | anyone tried building midori/webkit lately? | 04:22 |
| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRWLqHTioI here's the difference between N810 normal audio playback and what it can really do | 04:22 |
| pupnik | unfortunately the details aren't really audible in that vid | 04:23 |
| pupnik | but the volume problem sure is | 04:23 |
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| fysa | try with mplayer? | 04:25 |
| pupnik | the mplayer sound (gstreamer dspsink) is really crapola in the high-end - probably a resampling issue) | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wow . . . that's pretty ridiculous. | 04:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I wonder if it's as drastic on an N800. | 04:33 |
| fysa | webkitgtk is compiling.. | 04:34 |
| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: I can even hear the distortion in the startup sound when the system boots | 04:34 |
| pupnik | every single sound is badly distorted, and yet that esd testpattern is crystal clear | 04:34 |
| fysa | http://www.atoker.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/webkit2.png | 04:36 |
| fysa | ?? | 04:36 |
| fysa | what happened to that? | 04:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think it's still around. | 04:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not sure how hard it is to get going | 04:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | or whether the EAL bindings are 100% | 04:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't think there was ever a .deb | 04:36 |
| fysa | wouldn't it be faster than microb? | 04:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't have a clue. | 04:37 |
| alp | yeah, ajax benchmarks at around 4.5x MicroB | 04:37 |
| alp | JS a little better than that. gfx at 2x. best to try for yourself though | 04:38 |
| fysa | Dafydd and Senko at Collabora have done a great job on the “unstable” 1.3 branch. This is the branch that Nokia is using in the Maemo platform and it can probably be considered quite stable. | 04:38 |
| fysa | :O | 04:38 |
| fysa | Mikael Hallendal - Fri, 2008-01-11 15:09 | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Man . . . the OS2007 default theme was an abomination. | 04:39 |
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| alp | fysa: did you try CPPFLAGS="-DMAEMO_CHANGES=1 -DMOBILE=1"? | 04:40 |
| alp | fysa: that will enable Hildon UI support and some of the Android loader tweaks | 04:40 |
| fysa | for webkit or midori? | 04:40 |
| alp | webkit. i don't know anything about midori | 04:41 |
| Robot101 | fysa: that's 1.3 branch is of loudmouth, the XMPP library... | 04:41 |
| fysa | doh | 04:41 |
| fysa | :) | 04:42 |
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| kenny-yu | hi there, I've got a problem running mozilla in maemo (i cannot run it). Hmm... possible to give me some advice? :-) | 04:42 |
| fysa | alp: nice. not yet, trying this now. | 04:42 |
| kenny-yu | when I tried to start it: [sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/moz1.9/mozilla/obj-dir-browser-chinook-armel/dist/bin] > GRE_HOME=. ./run-mozilla.sh ./firefox | 04:43 |
| kenny-yu | qemu: Unsupported syscall: 264 | 04:43 |
| kenny-yu | qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting | 04:43 |
| kenny-yu | [sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~/moz1.9/mozilla/obj-dir-browser-chinook-armel/dist/bin] > | 04:43 |
| alp | fysa: ok, there are a bunch of tricks we've developed in recent weeks in preparation for the mobile WebKit SDK. if you need any help, #'webkit-gtk or message me | 04:43 |
| alp | performance tricks, that is. it's not all merged yet | 04:44 |
| fysa | excellent, very nice. | 04:44 |
| johnx | kenny-yu, it looks like qemu isn't able to emulate an ARM processor well enough to run it | 04:45 |
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| kenny-yu | hi johnx: Ar? But I've also tried it in X86 without a success..... :-( | 04:45 |
| johnx | what error does it give on x86? use pastebin if it's long... | 04:46 |
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| kenny-yu | wait let me re-generate the error for you to see... | 04:48 |
| kenny-yu | Oops... this time, /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set.. what value should i assign to? | 04:49 |
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| johnx | sorry, I honestly don't know | 04:51 |
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| kenny-yu | johnx, Hey, never mind. :-) | 04:56 |
| kenny-yu | it's happy to have your answer already :-) | 04:56 |
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| kenny-yu | hi johnx, just a quick question, do you think I need to switch in CHINOOK_X86 and install a new mozilla separately? because when I did the installation, I remember it was in CHINOOK_ARMEL but not x86.... | 05:02 |
| johnx | aaah...yes | 05:03 |
| johnx | I was kind of wondering about that | 05:03 |
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| johnx | kenny-yu, a program compiled for ARM/ARMEL can't be run on an x86 processor without emulation | 05:04 |
| kenny-yu | ar, you're right! | 05:05 |
| kenny-yu | thanks :-) then I'll need to compile it once again (using --disable-tests again) in X86 environment, right? | 05:05 |
| johnx | yes | 05:05 |
| kenny-yu | thanks a lot! I'm trying it now | 05:06 |
| johnx | sure | 05:06 |
| johnx | good luck | 05:06 |
| kenny-yu | thanks :) | 05:06 |
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| pupnik | trying to build osso-esd-0.52 need osso-dsp-headers (osso-dsp-headers-rx-44 or osso-dsp-headers-rx-34) | 06:48 |
| pupnik | maybe i can just do without it for now | 06:50 |
| pupnik | trying to get esddsp working so we can hack together a solution for OSS programs | 06:50 |
| johnx | brief googling makes me thing the headers aren't publicly available and not really possible to work around | 06:53 |
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| pupnik | okis | 06:55 |
| fysa | freecraft compiles cleanly | 06:58 |
| pupnik | looks like both alsa and esd provide a kind of frontend to /dev/dsp | 06:58 |
| pupnik | nice | 06:58 |
| fysa | I have an alsa-oss deb now that will install the libs, but it doesn't make the /dev/dsp node | 06:59 |
| pupnik | mknod /dev/dsp c 14 3 | 07:00 |
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| pupnik | but that seems do disappear after reboot | 07:04 |
| pupnik | damn it. would somebody else please do this :) | 07:07 |
| hfwilke | has anybody heard anything about the the bugfix release of Canola2 that was rumoured to be coming out today? | 07:09 |
| johnx | you might need to create a rule in udev to make the device | 07:10 |
| johnx | or just put the mknod in an initscript | 07:10 |
| pupnik | ah ty johnx | 07:11 |
| fysa | http://beta.pgdc.com/files/alsa-oss_1.0.14-1_armel.deb | 07:11 |
| fysa | that's the version that doesn't mknod | 07:11 |
| fysa | freecnc++ compiles cleanly | 07:14 |
| pupnik | did you build it to open /dev/dsptask/pcm3? | 07:14 |
| fysa | alsa-oss? | 07:15 |
| pupnik | yes | 07:15 |
| pupnik | i mean that looks wrong | 07:15 |
| fysa | I didn't change it. | 07:15 |
| pupnik | ok | 07:15 |
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| fysa | the source included reference on how to access specific pcm using asound.conf | 07:15 |
| pupnik | ok there's a fix there somewhere | 07:16 |
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| pupnik | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/27362 | 07:16 |
| fysa | I haven't seen a fix yet | 07:17 |
| fysa | bed time | 07:17 |
| pupnik | ok laters | 07:18 |
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| kennyyu | hi there | 07:25 |
| kennyyu | I'm trying to reinstall mozilla on maemo, in an CHINOOK_X86 environment... | 07:25 |
| kennyyu | but applying patch gives me error message (reference instruction can be found in http://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Build/Maemo_Build_Instructions ) | 07:26 |
| kennyyu | Can anyone help me? :-) | 07:26 |
| kennyyu | I'm really sorry because I've been making you so much trouble :-( | 07:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | If nobody replies, kennyyu, it just means there's nobody here with an answer right now. ;) | 07:27 |
| kennyyu | hi GeneralAntilles, thanks ;) | 07:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | I recommend the hours of 0900-1300 UTC. | 07:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Have you tried googling the error? | 07:29 |
| kennyyu | Hmm... I'm not sure about UTC... what is your time now? | 07:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | EST | 07:29 |
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| kennyyu | yes, but maybe I can try to google it once more first... | 07:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm -5 | 07:29 |
| kennyyu | And I'm in Hong Kong, +8, now it's 1.29PM. So when should I approach this channel later? :-) | 07:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Give it about 5 hours. | 07:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | The people who are likely to be able to help you are on European time. | 07:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's about 5:00AM for them right now. ;) | 07:31 |
| kennyyu | Oh I see. So I shall visit later... Thanks! | 07:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sure, good luck. | 07:31 |
| timelyx | good morning cruel world | 07:44 |
| timelyx | does notes have an about dialog/ | 07:44 |
| pupnik | dunno | 07:45 |
| timelyx | can you check? :) | 07:45 |
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| pupnik | yes | 07:51 |
| pupnik | it does not, timelyx | 07:52 |
| pupnik | os2008 latest | 07:52 |
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| timelyx | bug 2846 | 07:54 |
| timelyx | feel free to yell at the reporter | 07:54 |
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| VictBC43 | Hello.. I was wondering this was a channel where someone could ask some general questions about the n800 and BlueTooth GPS compatibility.. if not. is there an IRC channel for n800 owners that anyone knows of? | 07:57 |
| timelyx | there's no channel dedicated to n800 owners | 07:57 |
| timelyx | we don't reject people w/ 770s or n810s | 07:57 |
| timelyx | you're free to ask questions, although it'd be a good idea for you to search the channel logs first | 07:58 |
| timelyx | and it might make sense to search ITT too | 07:58 |
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| thefool | VictBC43: though I see no reason why your question should be n800 specific. The compatability is at a software level... | 08:00 |
| pupnik | /lastlog mknod | 08:00 |
| VictBC43 | well I have just spent several hours with google trying to find out what is a good BT GPS unit to use with the n800.. I am still waiting for my n800 to arrive (ordered it last Friday) so really don't know much about the navigation capabilities that maemo mapper has other than what I have read about on the web in various forums etc | 08:01 |
| Luria | i like my iblue 757 | 08:01 |
| johnx | I don't have a BT GPS, but from what I hear: get something with a "SiRF Star III" chipset | 08:02 |
| Luria | but it is buggy with usb only connections (when BT isnt up); i dont know if thats been fixed | 08:02 |
| VictBC43 | I decided to pick up an n800 because I finely decided I needed an upgrade from my Sharp Zaurus, I unfortunately there is not much support for anymore.. even in the opensource community :( Anyway, I liked the n800 because it runs linux :) | 08:02 |
| Luria | sirf III is good | 08:03 |
| Luria | mtk32 or sirf IIIc is better | 08:03 |
| Luria | which zaurus? | 08:03 |
| johnx | also, see if you can find a thread on internettablettalk.com/forums about GPS stuff that would be a good resource for "works, doesn't work" kind of info | 08:03 |
| johnx | heh...lots of Zaurus users getting N8x0s | 08:04 |
| Luria | my mtk32 works fairly well in nyc | 08:04 |
| VictBC43 | I was looking and ordered an Holux GBslim 236 online on the weekend.. but upon further study it seems many people have been experiencing problems with the BT portion failing after a while.. :( So I may just send it right back without even opening it. I have read many good reviews on the I-737.. and not been able to find any major complaints about it so far.. | 08:05 |
| Luria | so does my sirf 3, but power reqs are higher, unless you can find IIIc which i hear is better | 08:05 |
| derf | I'm impresed my MTK gets a lock in the city, but it's got some serious multipath problems. | 08:05 |
| Luria | its not multipath thats the problem, its warmup aquistion. | 08:06 |
| VictBC43 | Oh.. I have a SL-5500 zaurus with openzaurus and opie running on it :) | 08:06 |
| Luria | i find my holux better than the iblue in that respect | 08:06 |
| derf | It seems to work okay so long as it's not moving. | 08:06 |
| Luria | ex 5600 user here. | 08:06 |
| VictBC43 | they were such great devices.. but alas.. I think there time has come.. and gone :( | 08:07 |
| johnx | have a 5500 (stored until 2.6 gets better), a C1000 (still in use) and an N800 | 08:07 |
| VictBC43 | anyway.. back to the topic at hand :) | 08:07 |
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| Luria | i nearly bought the -c3200, but went with the n800 | 08:07 |
| Luria | i like my sd/sdhc slots :-) | 08:07 |
| Luria | but i still miss cf slots, they beg for hacks | 08:08 |
| johnx | *cough*newest zaurus kernel supports sdhc*cough* | 08:08 |
| johnx | :D | 08:08 |
| Luria | my zaurus no longer supports charging *cry* | 08:08 |
| johnx | oh noes :( my 5500 is plenty beaten up but most of it still works. | 08:09 |
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| johnx | anyways, let me see if I can dig up the BT GPS my friend uses with his N800 | 08:09 |
| Luria | johnx, on a 5600? i thought sdhc was controller dependant? | 08:09 |
| Luria | VictBC43, did you see the 757? | 08:10 |
| VictBC43 | I looked at the n810.. but thought that the two SD memory slots were more important than then built in GPS and slideout keyboard.. besides I have heard the built in GPS chip is not the greatest.. so I thought I can get an external BT GPS with the n800 and place it the optimal position on the dash for reception while still having the n800 closer to me so I can see the screen better | 08:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good plan. | 08:10 |
| johnx | Luria, C1000...I have no idea how they made it work O_o | 08:10 |
| Luria | amazing | 08:11 |
| johnx | VictBC43, yeah. and the N800 is such a deal right now | 08:11 |
| Luria | if they released a shiba model, i would have had to buy another zaurus :-) | 08:11 |
| VictBC43 | is that the i-blue that data logging or some such thing built in.. ? | 08:11 |
| * Luria has one of those (shiba inus) too | 08:11 | |
| Luria | yes, and the solar panel | 08:12 |
| VictBC43 | And apparently the speakers in the front of n800 are a little better than the ones they put in the n810 | 08:12 |
| VictBC43 | or so the various reviews I have read have pointed out :) | 08:12 |
| Luria | thats scary, cause the n800 speakers blow. or rather, they dont, enough | 08:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800 speakers are great for their size. | 08:13 |
| johnx | what do you expect on something that size?! | 08:13 |
| Luria | better. | 08:13 |
| VictBC43 | well that was the comment. they are amazing considering their size | 08:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Loudspeaker quality, evidently. | 08:13 |
| Luria | :-) | 08:13 |
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| VictBC43 | anyway all those things plus the fact that it runs linux was what made me order one.. I also wanted something that could be used the way I used to the use the Zaurus.. like an ultra mini laptop ;) or these days I guess the term is UMPC | 08:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Internet tablet. :P | 08:15 |
| johnx | VictBC43, the only thing I really miss (having an N800 instead of an N810) is the transflective screen and the keyboard | 08:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | or "MID" if you're Intel. | 08:16 |
| VictBC43 | well you can also run ssh, xterm, etc etc or so I read | 08:16 |
| johnx | and some crazy guys are working on Debian | 08:16 |
| Luria | johnx, yeah, agreed | 08:16 |
| Luria | tho i find im using my eee more and more and my n800 less and less | 08:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eee doesn't make any sense for my usage. | 08:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | If it's not pocketable, it's kinda pointless. | 08:18 |
| VictBC43 | I no one has tried getting a mini version of x-windows running on one.. or is that what the interface is using in the OS already? It would be cool to ssh to my linux box at home and have an app served to the n800 | 08:18 |
| johnx | x windows is in by default :) | 08:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | VictBC43, yeah, that works fine. | 08:18 |
| timelyx | johnx: by default makes it sound like you can easily or safely remove X | 08:18 |
| VictBC43 | Coooool !! | 08:18 |
| timelyx | you can't. | 08:18 |
| timelyx | w/o x, the device will reboot itself :) | 08:19 |
| johnx | X11 is an important component of the Maemo UI | 08:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | timelyx, what are you on about? | 08:19 |
| johnx | there is my marketing speech recalibrated? :P | 08:19 |
| timelyx | (again, and again, until it switches to play dead mode) | 08:19 |
| VictBC43 | I looked at those as well, I assume you are talking about the ASUS Eee's? | 08:19 |
| timelyx | GeneralAntilles: English word choice | 08:19 |
| Luria | yeah, an eeepc | 08:19 |
| timelyx | default implies a certain level of "optional" | 08:19 |
| timelyx | it isn't. | 08:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, right, pedantry. :P | 08:20 |
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| VictBC43 | they look cool.. but they are a little big.. I already have a regular laptop. I wanted something that could be truly put in your pocket :) | 08:20 |
| Luria | timelyx, booting is an unsupported feature, thus x is optional | 08:20 |
| timelyx | Luria: to be fair, my 770 had been off for weeks | 08:21 |
| * timelyx turns it "off" again | 08:22 | |
| VictBC43 | hehe.. all they need to do is build an n-series internet tablet with in one of those i-tech style virtual keyboards and those new miniature laser projector systems that are match-box sized and it would be awesome :) | 08:27 |
| VictBC43 | that way you could have your full size keyboard and a regular sized screen all projected from a hand held UMPC | 08:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Have you ever used a laser-keyboard before, VictBC43? <_< | 08:28 |
| johnx | that and bluetooth foldable keyboards are both great ... until you want to type standing up or sitting on a crowded train, or on a bus/in a car, etc, etc | 08:28 |
| VictBC43 | no.. I have not.. just read the reviews.. the zaurus had a thumb board built in | 08:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then you have the fullscreen keyboard! | 08:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | (which they really need to roll the bugs out of) | 08:29 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, which bugs are you thinking of specifically? | 08:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehehe | 08:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | The broken return key | 08:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Broken tap placement | 08:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Broken activation | 08:30 |
| VictBC43 | I have used a fold out portable keyboard for the Palm Pilot I has.. it was IR and was ok.. but had to make sure it was positioned correctly so they could see each other.. | 08:30 |
| VictBC43 | has = had | 08:31 |
| johnx | VictBC43, bluetooth a very nice step up in that regard | 08:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd get yourself an iGo keyboard asap VictBC43. | 08:31 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I thought (2) was something to do with the touchscreen? | 08:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, johnx. | 08:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe for some people | 08:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's a new bug with OS2008 final. | 08:31 |
| johnx | ah | 08:31 |
| VictBC43 | So.. back to GPS.. has anyone here seen or owned a Holux brand GPS? | 08:31 |
| pupnik_ | the igo seems very popular | 08:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/new bug/new bug for me/ | 08:32 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: But it's a new bug for me with OS2008 final. | 08:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, really, really portable. | 08:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it was on Amazon for $30 USD for a few months. ;) | 08:32 |
| VictBC43 | the other question I had was what the best IRC client to use with the n800? | 08:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | xchat | 08:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | or irssi | 08:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whichever suits your fancy. | 08:33 |
| VictBC43 | which is what I am using right now, only on my home PC | 08:34 |
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| legind | yeah n800 xchat ftw | 08:34 |
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| VictBC43 | and is there an application that lets you use the built in web cam as a video recorder.. ? | 08:34 |
| Lurianic | i own a holux usb gps | 08:35 |
| pupnik_ | that's crazy, i paid $130 for what is just an igo stowaway sonoma | 08:35 |
| Lurianic | actually i have it with me | 08:35 |
| pupnik_ | looks like the same design as the thinkoutside | 08:35 |
| Lurianic | xchat everywhere (except windows) ftw\ | 08:35 |
| johnx | VictBC43, I think there's something to record some type of video...but don't expect much | 08:36 |
| inz | ssh+screen+irssi everywhere! | 08:36 |
| VictBC43 | I know the quality of the camera is supposed to not be the best.. but I though it would be handy to have.. | 08:36 |
| johnx | the cam is actually so bad that not many people have bothered doing much with it | 08:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | It is, pupnik_. | 08:37 |
| VictBC43 | hehe.. well I looked at some of the demonstrations of the n800 on youtube and the quality of camera did'nt seem that terrible. but I guess I will know better when I actually get mine in had :) | 08:37 |
| VictBC43 | had = hand | 08:37 |
| Lurianic | the cam is, as the kids say, "teh suck" | 08:37 |
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| johnx | hopefully we'll discourage you so much about it that when you see it you'll actually be impressed :) | 08:38 |
| Luria | impressed by how bad it is, yeah. | 08:38 |
| VictBC43 | hehe.. | 08:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, don't get me wrong. I love my tablets. | 08:38 |
| johnx | VictBC43, actually, did you ever see the Camera attachment for the Z5500 (or see pics taken with it)? | 08:39 |
| Luria | otoh, im very impressed by the eee's cam | 08:39 |
| VictBC43 | well what do you want for something that does all the things that the n800 appears to do and in only $239 :) | 08:39 |
| Luria | johnx, i have one! | 08:39 |
| VictBC43 | So how do you like your Eee PC? | 08:39 |
| johnx | Luria, would you agree that the N800 cam is actually worse? | 08:39 |
| Luria | i mean, the eee's cam at .3m just like the n800 | 08:40 |
| Luria | now that i think about it, yes, iirc | 08:40 |
| johnx | isn't that sad? | 08:40 |
| Luria | VictBC43, im really impressed by the eee. i miss bt, but that's a hack away | 08:40 |
| Luria | i stuck 2gb in it and kde3.5+compiz | 08:41 |
| johnx | or one of those really short bt usb modules | 08:41 |
| VictBC43 | Does it have BT built in.. or would you have to get a USB dongle? | 08:41 |
| Luria | its nice to have a well supported linux box travelling with the n800 | 08:41 |
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| Luria | no built in BT in this generation | 08:41 |
| Luria | but 3 usb ports | 08:41 |
| johnx | Luria, sacrifice a USB port for one of these: http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/24/princetons-itty-bitty-usb-bluetooth-2-0-edr-module/ | 08:42 |
| VictBC43 | So how much smaller is it than a 'standard' laptop. hard to tell from the pictures I have seen.. | 08:42 |
| Luria | (plus vga out, ethernet, sound i/o and an sdhc card slot | 08:42 |
| Luria | VictBC43, it reminds me of a cross between my cf-m34 and old laptops (because of the frame around the screen) | 08:43 |
| Luria | but it is a serviceable machine - i havent touched my toshiba of similar specs (r100) since i got it. | 08:43 |
| Luria | 4200rpm drives for x86 machines = bad idea. cf mac air | 08:44 |
| Luria | speaking of - | 08:44 |
| Luria | http://diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com/2008/01/mac-cutting-edge-technology.html | 08:44 |
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| Luria | as far as size, the keyboard takes getting used to, and the screen, despite the resolution, is fine for general use - but expect to maximize everything. | 08:45 |
| VictBC43 | Soooo.. one last question about GPS.. Holux or I-Blue.. MTK vs SIRFIII.. what is the consensus ? | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Luria, that's what the SSD is for. :P | 08:46 |
| Luria | its a really good IT tool, backtrack linux specifically supports it as of BT3 beta | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | MTK | 08:46 |
| Luria | mtk | 08:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Holux or i-blue . . . get whatever you can get a deal on. | 08:46 |
| Luria | sirf IIIc, maybe, if you can find it | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're pretty much identical. | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I like the look of the i-blues more. | 08:46 |
| Luria | except in power draw | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | But, meh. | 08:46 |
| Luria | mtk32 beats III like a red headed stepchild in the power draw category. | 08:47 |
| Luria | VictBC43, are you using the gps exclusively with the n800? | 08:49 |
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| VictBC43 | Hmm well it looks like I can get a i-blue 737 for 59.00 cdn.. I have a Holux GPSlim 236 on order.. but as I said.. it would seem from reading about them that there is a good chance the BT circuit with fail after a short while.. but it does have the SiRF Star III chipset ... | 08:52 |
| VictBC43 | yes.. I would be using it exclusively with the n800.. at least in the foreseeable future | 08:53 |
| Luria | then go with the iblue | 08:54 |
| Luria | if you can | 08:54 |
| Luria | odd, ive found holux gpses to be well built. | 08:55 |
| VictBC43 | Ok.. will call CanadaGPS tomorrow and see if I can get an RMA number for an item I have not even received yet (it is in transit) :) | 08:55 |
| Luria | :-) | 08:55 |
| Luria | will an order from semsons kill you on cross border shipping/exchange? | 08:57 |
| Luria | i was very happy with my order from them | 08:57 |
| Luria | plus they just have neat stuff :-) | 08:57 |
| VictBC43 | It might.. especially if they ship via a courier.. they kill you with brokerage fees.. | 08:58 |
| Luria | well, look into it. the prices were the best i found in the us when i ordered my 757pro (in july) | 08:59 |
| ds3 | Numerix (sp?) chipset BT GPS's aren't bad and the battery life is incredible | 08:59 |
| Luria | http://www.semsons.com/nosyblgpsres.html | 09:00 |
| VictBC43 | if you search Amazon.com for Holux GPslim 236 then look at the customer reviews.. those that have had the unit for several months... there seems toe be a common theme.. BT failure and poor or nonexistent customer support.. | 09:00 |
| VictBC43 | http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000AOMPS6/ref=cm_cr_pr_redirect/103-2320153-9698249 | 09:00 |
| Luria | thats the new sirf chipset | 09:01 |
| Luria | i dont know how well it works vs. the promises | 09:01 |
| ds3 | that's expensive | 09:02 |
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| Luria | it could be worse | 09:03 |
| Luria | http://www.semsons.com/i757prosobtd.html | 09:03 |
| Luria | thats what i use | 09:03 |
| VictBC43 | Hmmm.. luria.. you say you have the i757.. does anyone have the i737 here? | 09:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 09:03 |
| Luria | they are virtually the same | 09:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Solar panel | 09:04 |
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| Luria | and 8mb logger | 09:04 |
| ds3 | Luria: how long does it run between charges? | 09:04 |
| Luria | long | 09:04 |
| Luria | its rare that i charge it | 09:04 |
| Luria | esp when in use during the day | 09:05 |
| ds3 | have you had it on for 12hours? | 09:05 |
| Luria | yes | 09:05 |
| ds3 | nice | 09:05 |
| Luria | bad startup aquisition time in my experience, tho | 09:06 |
| Luria | but i live in a bad area | 09:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, not here. | 09:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~30s | 09:06 |
| ds3 | they reviews say the surf chipset is more sensitive but higher power consumption the the numerix; I find the numerix one behaves sufficient for me | 09:06 |
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| Luria | still find the holux sirf3 better for that. once locked thoo, there isnt a difference | 09:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Goddamn 640x480 video looks good on the tablet. . . . | 09:07 |
| * GeneralAntilles wish he could ignore the dropped frames. :( | 09:07 | |
| Luria | ds3, i live in manhattan :-) | 09:07 |
| VictBC43 | Luria.. it looks like semsons wants $28.00 to ship to Canada | 09:07 |
| Luria | they arent dropped frames, | 09:07 |
| Luria | its JIT video editing | 09:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 09:08 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, crank down the framerate when transcoding? | 09:08 |
| Luria | VictBC43, ouch | 09:08 |
| johnx | better than losing frames on playback | 09:08 |
| ds3 | Luria: I've use mine in chicago and it seems fine | 09:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | I transcode to 320x240 with mediaserv for most stuff these days. | 09:08 |
| VictBC43 | and that does not include the taxes, duty and brokerage fees I would likely be hit with as well | 09:08 |
| Luria | yeah, been there | 09:09 |
| VictBC43 | anyway.. you all seem to think the MTK chipset is as good as the SiRF III? | 09:09 |
| Luria | savings evaporate *poof* | 09:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | If only Nokia hadn't screwed up the controller bus. :( | 09:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | SiRF IIIc, VictBC43. | 09:09 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, if it's 640x480x16bitsx30fps is probably too much but it might work at 24/25fps if the CPU doesn't get bogged down | 09:09 |
| Luria | there are a bunch of comparisons online between the two. mtk32 is better with power which is compelling with a mobile use case | 09:10 |
| Luria | other than that, *shrug* | 09:10 |
| Luria | i use my sirf3 with my laptop, mtk with my n800 | 09:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Weeeeell . . . that didn't work. | 09:12 |
| * GeneralAntilles broke tablet-encode | 09:12 | |
| johnx | oh noes! | 09:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was about a 10 second encoding. <_> | 09:13 |
| johnx | just yank the preset from tablet-encode and call mencoder directly | 09:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | There we go. | 09:13 |
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| VictBC43 | Well I am off.. thank you for all assistance and input and answering my questions.. it was much appreciated :) | 09:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Cripes . . . can you imagine downsampled 720p on the N900? | 09:16 |
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| |tbb| | will a scratchbox enviroment also send dbus messages as it does on n8x0 devices | 09:26 |
| |tbb| | morning btw | 09:26 |
| melmoth | i think so | 09:27 |
| kulve | |tbb|: in what occasion? | 09:27 |
| kulve | if you have the daemons running and you use dbus-send, then yes, it will send them | 09:27 |
| |tbb| | ah k | 09:28 |
| kulve | and by the "daemons" I mean dbus session and system buses | 09:29 |
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| kennyyu | johnx, I'm not sure if it was you who told me to compile mozilla in CHINOOK_X86 instead of ARMEL. And just to let you know I've finally compiled it successfully :-) | 09:44 |
| kennyyu | and thanks | 09:44 |
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| timelyx | kennyyu: is that all you changed? | 09:50 |
| * timelyx presumes that --disable-tests was still needed | 09:50 | |
| kennyyu | Hi timelyx. I just re-do the compilation work once again and I followed your suggestion to --disable-tests | 09:52 |
| n0ob_ | re | 09:52 |
| kennyyu | And... this time I changed my environment to CHINOOK_X86 for building ILD and Mozilla | 09:52 |
| kennyyu | and it works this time :-) | 09:53 |
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| * kennyyu thinks timelyx's presumption is right. | 09:53 | |
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| kennyyu | and it works finally... I retried it again and again for days and I think the wiki wasn't clear enough... :-( | 09:55 |
| timelyx | kennyyu: anyone can edit a wiki | 09:56 |
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| kennyyu | yes, ... ah, one more thing to note is that. | 09:57 |
| kennyyu | I've found that the patch does not work | 09:57 |
| kennyyu | so I skipped applying the patch | 09:57 |
| timelyx | "the patch"? | 09:58 |
| kennyyu | and that's it. :-) | 09:58 |
| kennyyu | yes. | 09:58 |
| kennyyu | in the page... wait | 09:58 |
| kennyyu | http://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Build/Maemo_Build_Instructions (there is a patch instruction --> ' cat attachment.cgi\?id\=287745 | patch -p1 ') | 09:59 |
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| kennyyu | http://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Build/Maemo_Build_Instructions#Build_the_the_trunk_.28mozilla_1.9.29 | 09:59 |
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| timelyx | kennyyu: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=287745&action=edit | 10:00 |
| timelyx | that bug's resolved | 10:00 |
| timelyx | so the patch shouldn't be needed | 10:01 |
| timelyx | just remove that instruction from the wiki | 10:01 |
| kennyyu | Oic! | 10:01 |
| kennyyu | Alright, I shall just remove it... | 10:01 |
| kennyyu | :-) thanks for your help anyway | 10:02 |
| kennyyu | without your help... @@ sigh, I wouldn't have it compiled to this step.... | 10:03 |
| timelyx | btw, you shouldn't repeat yourself | 10:03 |
| timelyx | so stick a single note about CHINOOK_X86 at the top, and get rid of the continual reminders elsewhere | 10:03 |
| kennyyu | you mean my names in the wiki... oops, I left my names there just because I wasn't sure about my changes.... | 10:05 |
| timelyx | btw, the step for installing xephyr should say "from the host machine" | 10:05 |
| timelyx | just like the step for "running" xephyr | 10:05 |
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| timelyx | ...does | 10:05 |
| kennyyu | let me see... | 10:06 |
| timelyx | note: while anyone can edit a wiki, i hate wikis because they require me to remember usernames+passwords, which i can't seem to do. so since you're interested in editing it, i'm kinda borrowing you :) | 10:06 |
| kennyyu | hahaha | 10:06 |
| kennyyu | not at all :-) | 10:06 |
| timelyx | :) | 10:07 |
| timelyx | anyway, i'm off to work. | 10:07 |
| kennyyu | alright, have a nice day :-) | 10:07 |
| timelyx | hrm | 10:07 |
| timelyx | you should add the ac_add_options --disable-tests line into the mozconfig fragment | 10:08 |
| timelyx | near the line that does: | 10:08 |
| timelyx | echo "mk_add_options MOZ_OBJDIR=@TOPSRCDIR@/obj-dir-browser-chinook-armel" >> mozconfig | 10:08 |
| timelyx | something like: echo "ac_add_options --disable-tests" >> mozconfig | 10:08 |
| timelyx | (make sure the line works before you add it to the wiki..) | 10:08 |
| * timelyx still doesn't understand the xmlextras bit | 10:09 | |
| * timelyx bangs elbow... *ouch* | 10:09 | |
| kennyyu | okok :p | 10:09 |
| kennyyu | don't worry | 10:10 |
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| _collin_ | re | 10:57 |
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| Blafasel | Morning.. Two questions: Is it me or is the headphone jack hard to get out of the N810 again? And are there known problems with 11MBit/b networks or is this AP from the stoneage flaky? | 11:16 |
| michele | Blafasel: the jack is hard, yes and your AP might not support power saving | 11:19 |
| michele | go in the advanced preferences for the connection and increase the timeout | 11:20 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:20 |
| solmumaha | morning | 11:21 |
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| AD-N770 | bon dia / good morning | 11:26 |
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| |tbb| | morning jaffa,blafasel | 11:30 |
| |tbb| | blafasel: have u iodine get to run, with 4.0 | 11:31 |
| |tbb| | hi collin | 11:31 |
| _collin_ | tbb: 0.4.1 is online :) | 11:32 |
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| |tbb| | blasfasel: there you go | 11:33 |
| |tbb| | collin:thx | 11:33 |
| _collin_ | tbb: he knows already | 11:33 |
| |tbb| | oh | 11:34 |
| _collin_ | and using it | 11:34 |
| _collin_ | do people from nokia/maemo tend to hang out here? ... just curious | 11:35 |
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| Tama^2 | Hello | 11:37 |
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| inz | _collin_, some do | 11:38 |
| Tama^2 | Hello | 11:38 |
| Blafasel | michele: The idle times are set to unlimited for me. I guess/hope that disables powersaving completely? | 11:39 |
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| Tama^2 | odd | 11:40 |
| Tama^2 | my irc client was mis-behaving | 11:40 |
| n0ob_ | what resolution does the n810 camera have? what does vga mean in this context? is it 640x480? | 11:40 |
| kulve | n0ob_: don't mind the resolution. The quality is *low*. | 11:41 |
| kulve | vga is 640x480 | 11:41 |
| n0ob_ | kulve: can you give me example pictures? | 11:42 |
| kulve | http://tuomas.kulve.fi/tmp/camera-2007-02-14-22-55-41.jpg | 11:43 |
| kulve | seems to be vga resolution | 11:43 |
| michele | Blafasel: I think so | 11:44 |
| inz | And quite noisy ;) | 11:44 |
| kulve | it's maybe a bit better (lower noise) in very bright light but I think that's quite typical image. | 11:44 |
| michele | kulve: tracked down that doc? | 11:44 |
| n0ob_ | ouch | 11:44 |
| n0ob_ | that not nice | 11:44 |
| kulve | michele: still tracking.. | 11:44 |
| inz | noob, the camera is really meant for videoconf, not much else | 11:45 |
| n0ob_ | mmh ok inz | 11:45 |
| n0ob_ | im just asking, because 380euros are quite a few bucks ;-) | 11:46 |
| kulve | that was actually from n800, but at least the video quality is the same in n810. I think the camera is the same. | 11:47 |
| n0ob_ | ok kulve thanks a lot | 11:47 |
| Tama^2 | Hey folks, how long should an n800 battery last when idle? | 11:49 |
| kulve | several days. When really idle | 11:49 |
| n0ob_ | how much bandwidth does conferencing approximatly need? | 11:49 |
| Tama^2 | how can you tell when it's really idle? | 11:49 |
| kulve | n0ob_: you mean video call? I a bit over 128kbps it seems.. | 11:49 |
| n0ob_ | nice | 11:50 |
| Tama^2 | offline, screen locked, no app running and I still get only a few hours | 11:50 |
| kulve | n0ob_: I'll take that back.. | 11:50 |
| n0ob_ | oh? | 11:50 |
| kulve | n0ob_: we tried the call with 128kbps 3G and the uploading was a missing some frames, but I'm not sure how much the upload bandwidth is in that 3G. Maybe 64kbps. The download direction worked ok with 128kbps. | 11:51 |
| n0ob_ | thank you :-) | 11:52 |
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| inz | n0ob, http://inz.fi/n810.jpg is with n810 | 11:54 |
| inz | n0ob, so pretty much the same quality | 11:54 |
| n0ob_ | thx inz you own a n810? | 11:55 |
| michele | Tama^2: see if this helps http://tabletblog.com/2008/01/lost-battery-life-try-this.html | 11:55 |
| kulve | n0ob_: I have n810 too.. | 11:56 |
| inz | n0ob, "yes" | 11:56 |
| Tama^2 | thanks michele | 11:56 |
| Tama^2 | I have seen that one :) | 11:56 |
| Tama^2 | not helping apparently | 11:56 |
| kulve | Tama^2: your device isn't in R&D mode, right? | 11:57 |
| n0ob_ | ok thats good... some people complain about the gps, but dont state wether they mean the hardware itself or the prepacked software. do you have experiences? | 11:57 |
| kulve | n0ob_: the gps hw is pretty bad | 11:57 |
| kulve | slow in getting the fix, especially while in move | 11:58 |
| Tama^2 | kulve: nope :) | 11:58 |
| kulve | but I think it's good enough for a tablet since it's not a real gps device. More like a toy.. | 11:58 |
| inz | Yesterday I got gps fix indoors | 11:58 |
| kulve | inz: at home? | 11:59 |
| inz | Although it claimed that my dining room table moved at 2-7 km/h velocity | 11:59 |
| inz | kulve, yeah | 11:59 |
| db48x | heh | 11:59 |
| kulve | yeah, it's always some km/h because the fix isn't accurate enough.. | 11:59 |
| michele | inz: yeah, in fact it's moving quite a lot faster than that, it's all a matter of choosing a reference | 11:59 |
| Tama^2 | lol | 11:59 |
| n0ob_ | mmh ok so what is realy positive about this geek toy? | 12:00 |
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| Tama^2 | it's all about the frame of reference... | 12:00 |
| kulve | n0ob_: I spent 7 hours reading an pdf during the weekend. And I'm watching some tv series from it. | 12:00 |
| inz | michele, well, my take is egocentric, and I was sitting by the table | 12:00 |
| n0ob_ | kulve: ok thats nice ;-) | 12:00 |
| kulve | Also the GPS is enough for most uses. And the device with qwerty is perfect for ircing | 12:01 |
| inz | Shame no one has unfucked-up the xterm for chinook | 12:01 |
| nomis | kulve: it is a shame though that a high-price device like the N810 has such a pathetic chipset though. I mean, >5 minutes for first fix... | 12:02 |
| * inz whistles and avoids eye contact | 12:02 | |
| n0ob_ | kulve: i want to use the gps for http://www.openstreetmap.org/ | 12:02 |
| kulve | nomis: high-price? Have you compared the device to other devices with WVGA display, GPS, qwerty, 2G internal flash, 256M RAM, micro SD card slot, camera, etc.? | 12:02 |
| michele | n0ob_: some friends of mine used it here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Arezzo_Mapping_Party | 12:03 |
| bmidgley_ | sirf-iii can perform really well. I suspect the antenna is the problem | 12:03 |
| Tama^2 | kulve: can you suggest tools to explore the power consumption problem? (something that return the current mAh/s or something like that ) | 12:03 |
| kulve | Tama^2: I think there's nothing as sophisticated as that.. | 12:03 |
| kulve | Tama^2: Have you checked with e.g. top that there really isn't anything running? | 12:04 |
| n0ob_ | michele: ok that seems to work then ;) | 12:04 |
| kulve | i.e. taking cpu | 12:04 |
| bmidgley_ | too bad there's no ext plug | 12:04 |
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| michele | kulve: shouldn't there be a file in /proc? | 12:04 |
| michele | for the battery mAh | 12:04 |
| johnx | bmidgley, I think it's a sirf2 not a sirf3, IIRC | 12:04 |
| kulve | michele: I'm not sure actually.. | 12:04 |
| Tama^2 | yep, top reports low cpu usage but the load is never quite < 5/10 | 12:05 |
| johnx | er...actually | 12:05 |
| johnx | what is it | 12:05 |
| johnx | hmm | 12:05 |
| * johnx googles | 12:05 | |
| wnd | johnx, are you thinking of intel's powertop for tickless kernel? | 12:06 |
| johnx | not a sirf at all, it's the GPS5300 from TI | 12:06 |
| _collin_ | I thought the n810 doesn't have a sirf3 but has some TI chip | 12:06 |
| wnd | nevermind :-) | 12:06 |
| _collin_ | there was this story on planet-maemo ... | 12:06 |
| Tama^2 | whatever it is, it;s not a hogging the cpu, just keeping the unit busy enough to prevent it from entering a better powersave mode | 12:06 |
| johnx | wnd, actually I tried powertop under debian on N800 and it didn't have enough of the hooks in the kernel that powertop needed to work | 12:07 |
| johnx | all it would tell me was the percent of time that the CPU was spending at a certain clockspeed | 12:08 |
| bmidgley | johnx yeah I thought I had read sirf-iii in a specsheet but can't find anything now | 12:08 |
| johnx | which is somewhat irrelevant in the case of the tablet | 12:08 |
| wnd | oh | 12:08 |
| johnx | bmidgley, it's the GPS5300, same as an N95 | 12:08 |
| johnx | but without being able to do that celluar AGPS thing like the N95 does | 12:08 |
| johnx | GPS5300 is TI's "lowest cost" chipset apparently | 12:09 |
| _collin_ | :) | 12:09 |
| bmidgley | is it low power too or just cheaper | 12:09 |
| * johnx shrugs | 12:09 | |
| johnx | linkage: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12607&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/gps_gps5300&DCMP=WTBU&HQS=ProductBulletin+OT+navilink_4 | 12:09 |
| bmidgley | too bad... it performs about as well as my old sirf-ii gps | 12:10 |
| johnx | someone ran tests. Apparently the sirf-ii is a little better | 12:10 |
| bmidgley | ouch | 12:11 |
| johnx | yeah, for N810 owners. Makes me feel better about getting my N800 when I did though | 12:12 |
| johnx | bmidgley, oh, if you're interested in hearing about A2DP performance with the N800 booted into Debian: 75% constant CPU usage @ 400MHz ... but no skipping until I put further load on it. Period size gets set correctly, too | 12:13 |
| liri | the poor thing is that there's like no gps/maps applications for the n810 | 12:15 |
| bmidgley | johnx a good test would be cvs head with http://pastebin.com/m41b4750c applied | 12:15 |
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| liri | would've been cool if there was some integration with googlemaps and the gps | 12:15 |
| johnx | cvs head of bluez-utils? | 12:15 |
| bmidgley | liri it has a pretty weak app but maemo-mapper is great | 12:15 |
| bmidgley | johnx yes | 12:16 |
| bmidgley | marcel doesn't like how ugly the patch is... esp since gcc gets tripped up by 'static inline' on a fn | 12:16 |
| bmidgley | johnx 75% is really high though... does that include mp3 decoding? | 12:17 |
| johnx | yes | 12:17 |
| bmidgley | through the gstreamer plugin? | 12:17 |
| johnx | through mplayer | 12:17 |
| johnx | actually, I should try a different decoder | 12:17 |
| bmidgley | fwiw, the alsa plugin performs a lot better than the gstreamer plugin currently | 12:19 |
| bmidgley | gst must be spinning the cpu | 12:19 |
| johnx | interesting | 12:19 |
| bmidgley | it is probably an implementation problem on our side | 12:20 |
| johnx | is this on an N8x0 or something else | 12:20 |
| Tama^2 | A2DP requires the audio be compressed again so it could be also an unoptimized codec in bluez | 12:20 |
| bmidgley | we're slowly optimizing it | 12:20 |
| bmidgley | heh | 12:20 |
| johnx | so I guess my experience on the Zaurus was just a lucky fluke. heh. | 12:21 |
| bmidgley | the bluez gst guy just got mp3 direct-to-headset working through gstreamer | 12:21 |
| johnx | that's only for a couple headsets though, right? | 12:21 |
| bmidgley | yeah sadly | 12:22 |
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| johnx | heh...nothing like being an early adopter | 12:24 |
| bmidgley | "is this on an N8x0 or something else" pxa270/gumstix | 12:25 |
| johnx | openembedded? debian? | 12:25 |
| bmidgley | oe | 12:25 |
| bmidgley | debian on gumstix?? :) | 12:26 |
| johnx | either way, something with a more "vanilla" setup than ITOS | 12:26 |
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| johnx | bmidgley, debian on zaurus | 12:26 |
| johnx | same hardware | 12:26 |
| johnx | 64MB RAM / PXA270 @ 416MHz / root on SD | 12:26 |
| bmidgley | pxa270 runs well but the uart is too slow to take advantage of bluetooth2 | 12:27 |
| johnx | I need more SD cards so I can swtich OSes more quickly :D | 12:27 |
| johnx | I'm doing bluetooth over USB host with cheapie USB BT adapter that claims to be BT 1.1 | 12:28 |
| liri | bmidgley: I am reading up on maemo-mapper on its homepage but it doesn't say - what is the source for the maps? | 12:28 |
| bmidgley | liri: out of the box, it's openstreetmap | 12:29 |
| johnx | liri, couple different sources: openstreetmap, google maps, and something else I dont' remember | 12:29 |
| bmidgley | liri: but you can "steal" google maps and get usgs topo maps | 12:29 |
| bmidgley | liri the topo maps are great but only cover the US | 12:29 |
| liri | whats usgs? | 12:30 |
| bmidgley | US geological survey | 12:30 |
| liri | ahh ok | 12:30 |
| liri | so it can rely on googlemaps for the gps? | 12:30 |
| michele | and MS virtual earth | 12:30 |
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| michele | which I think has nicer street maps | 12:31 |
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| bmidgley | liri it can use google's data but doesn't use their web app | 12:31 |
| bmidgley | i need to dig up a hack i wrote to use google maps with gpsd | 12:31 |
| liri | bmidgley: it just implements their api for the maps? | 12:32 |
| bmidgley | you have to hack around the javascript sandbox | 12:32 |
| bmidgley | liri it uses their "internal" api which is actually verboten | 12:32 |
| liri | bmidgley: umm so does it require you to be online when using googlemaps? | 12:32 |
| bmidgley | liri no it caches them | 12:33 |
| liri | bmidgley: ahh nice | 12:33 |
| liri | bmidgley: unfortunately israel has no street mapping, only sat and terrain | 12:33 |
| bmidgley | openstreetmap is trying to map it all, eh? | 12:34 |
| liri | yeah :) | 12:35 |
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| bmidgley | i see it only has a few major routes http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.328&lon=34.906&zoom=10&layers=B0FT | 12:36 |
| bmidgley | oh it does have more in jerusalem | 12:37 |
| bmidgley | still pretty weak | 12:38 |
| bmidgley | g'night all | 12:38 |
| johnx | 'night | 12:39 |
| johnx | I'll do some more testing with bluez cvs head :) | 12:39 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:55 |
| Tama^2 | Hello fatman xD | 12:56 |
| lardman | how rude ;) | 12:56 |
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| Tama^2 | oh sorry I thought it was your name not a faithful description of your appearance O,o | 12:57 |
| lardman | more a faithful description of my dietary habits in the 1st year at uni | 12:58 |
| lardman | Anyway, after my impressive experience with the gps yesterday (it didn't connect), I had a browse on ITT and noticed that the GPS is a Ti 3500 | 13:00 |
| lardman | which supports AGPS | 13:00 |
| lardman | the question is, can we enable this somehow? | 13:00 |
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| johnx | that could be interesting | 13:02 |
| lardman | ah-ha, there is life :) | 13:02 |
| johnx | undeath at least :) | 13:02 |
| lardman | I understand there's a daemon called something like gpsdriver, anyone seen this? | 13:02 |
| johnx | someone needs to send me an N810 so I can start hacking on it :) | 13:03 |
| _berto_ | johnx: try here -> http://sense-datum.org/tim/archive/2008/01/24/a_gift_to_me_can_be_a_gift_to_/tim_samoff__weblog | 13:04 |
| _berto_ | ;-) | 13:04 |
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| lardman | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=112892#post112892 | 13:06 |
| johnx | yeah, I looked at that | 13:07 |
| lardman | I think that's the right link: gpsdriver is closed source and doesn't tell us what params it takes | 13:07 |
| johnx | ah | 13:07 |
| lardman | http://tii.developerconference.ext.ti.com/post-conf/downloads/james-hymel.pdf p43 | 13:07 |
| johnx | if you kill off GPSD and accept the consequences you can just talk to it through it's UART, right? | 13:08 |
| lardman | now presumably when the user-side talks to the gps over /dev/ttyS0 (or is it S1?), it's actually talking to the GPS Controller hardware | 13:08 |
| lardman | killing gpsd perhaps, then you just talk to the serial device, but if the gpsdriver is required to create or mediate the serial device, then it would be good to see what that does | 13:09 |
| johnx | yeah | 13:10 |
| lardman | but at what level is the agps stuff implemented I wonder | 13:10 |
| lardman | interestingly, from that pdf, I see that the gps controller does power managment, which means there may be some clues in the kernel source | 13:11 |
| johnx | on the link to the product page from the first post of that thread it looks like AGPS data is just fed to it via the UART connected to the OMAP | 13:12 |
| johnx | (or at least it can be) | 13:12 |
| lardman | yes, the question is can that be the same uart as the other control messages are sent over? | 13:13 |
| lardman | in which case gpsdriver may be able to do something with it | 13:13 |
| * |tbb| means, before you all hack the gps chip try to write drivers for powervr support ;) | 13:14 | |
| lardman | I was just interested, still thinking about PowerVR don't worry :) | 13:14 |
| johnx | |tbb|, I think the powervr drivers would be a couple more orders of magnitude harder than telling some lies to a GPS chip :) | 13:14 |
| |tbb| | hehe ;) | 13:16 |
| lardman | just makes it a better challenge ;) | 13:16 |
| lardman | though I hear that the OMAP gaming SDKs have been removed from the Ti site | 13:16 |
| lardman | anyone seen the gps chip? | 13:18 |
| lardman | p42 of the pdf indicates that v2 has far more features (and is ~50mm^2 as opposed to ~80mm^2 for v1) | 13:18 |
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| lardman | I should add, that even though we don't have GSM built in (and therefore can't necessarily obtain precise information for our general location) | 13:29 |
| lardman | (though we could use one of the existing location from ip services, I'm not sure how much extra data is needed at that location, or how much processing would be required to calculate it) | 13:29 |
| lardman | we can use agps lto - long time orbit, which simply passes information about satellite locations | 13:30 |
| lardman | s/can/could | 13:30 |
| lardman | e.g. http://uc.gpsworld.com/gpsuc/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=262235 | 13:30 |
| lardman | does that make sense? | 13:31 |
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| liri | bmidgley: uhmm, I wonder if .fbl maps files can be used with maemo-mapper | 13:38 |
| jku | lardman, didn't read the whole log here, but just in case it didn't come up: gpsctrl.h has some functions that let you switch the chip on and off and to different power levels without using gpsd | 13:41 |
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| Jaffa | lardman: priming the AGPS with the iPod Touch's wifi-based triangulation would be very cool | 13:42 |
| jku | and gpsinternal.h is interesting in the sense that is shows that you can feed the last known position to the chip to speed up init... | 13:42 |
| jku | of course the actual libs are closed in chinook | 13:43 |
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| lardman | jku: in the kernel source? | 13:47 |
| jku | no, gpsmgr probably | 13:47 |
| lardman | Jaffa: triangulation would be useful (assuming we don't need to do lots of calcs to generate data for that location), but just passing ephemeris data, etc. would be good | 13:49 |
| jku | lardman, libgpsbt actually | 13:50 |
| lardman | Jaffa: how does the triagulation work, would be good for location services in any case | 13:50 |
| lardman | jku: thanks | 13:50 |
| lardman | anyone happen to have the N810 kernel config handy? | 13:51 |
| jku | the library definitions are fairly fuzzy -- personally I wouldn't have guessed that "libgpsbt" includes control functions for a GPS that has nothing to do with bluetooth... | 13:51 |
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| lardman | "Select between the IrDA and aGPS module" in the kernel patch | 13:52 |
| lardman | probably doesn't mean much though | 13:52 |
| johnx | jku, well, even gnuite didn't guess that selecting "bluetooth" with a blank MAC would automagically make the N810 GPS work in maemo mapper | 13:52 |
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| jku | johnx, exactly | 13:53 |
| jku | lardman, Jaffa: I've been toying with an idea of a free wifi location service... | 13:53 |
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| jku | actually did some wardriving tests (for data collection) with n810 | 13:53 |
| lardman | jku: where's that libgpsbt source then? | 13:54 |
| jku | somwhere in a Nokia vault | 13:54 |
| lardman | oh, so how have you seen it? Are you a Nokian? | 13:54 |
| jku | No. I just read headers :) | 13:54 |
| jku | and try the functions... | 13:55 |
| lardman | ah, so where's the header then | 13:55 |
| lardman | ? | 13:55 |
| b0unc3 | good morning | 13:55 |
| johnx | mornin' b0unc3 | 13:55 |
| lardman | morning b0unc3 | 13:55 |
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| jku | lardman, install libgpsbt-dev (it's in the nokia binaries package) | 13:56 |
| lardman | cool | 13:56 |
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| jku | gpsbt and gpsmgr were free but got closed in chinook... | 13:57 |
| jku | no doubt because of some gps chip magic that they include | 13:57 |
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| johnx | well I think we're used to seeing that :/ | 13:58 |
| b0unc3 | damn.. the gps on my n810 appears to be broken ... | 13:58 |
| johnx | b0unc3, won't get a lock? | 13:58 |
| b0unc3 | johnx: exactly | 13:58 |
| jku | the it works | 13:58 |
| johnx | they take forever to lock | 13:59 |
| jku | then, even | 13:59 |
| johnx | for-ev-er | 13:59 |
| b0unc3 | johnx: how much is 'forever' ? :| | 13:59 |
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| lardman | 2^999 days | 13:59 |
| b0unc3 | :( | 13:59 |
| johnx | one Unix epoch? | 13:59 |
| johnx | the first lock is the longest | 13:59 |
| lardman | well mine worked in 5min actually | 13:59 |
| johnx | how long did you give it? | 13:59 |
| b0unc3 | lardman: really ? | 14:00 |
| lardman | but it's not worked since, though I've not tried too hard | 14:00 |
| lardman | yeah | 14:00 |
| lardman | first lock that is | 14:00 |
| Doni^ | hmm. i get a lock fairly quickly. it depends tho where i am. | 14:00 |
| Doni^ | and also the position of the tablet affects. | 14:00 |
| Doni^ | external gps is quicker imao. | 14:00 |
| lardman | we need agps enabled ;) | 14:00 |
| b0unc3 | johnx: I have waited for 15min... | 14:00 |
| Doni^ | agps would help. | 14:01 |
| johnx | I don't have an N810 so I can't add my experience but I think the consensus would be "keep waiting" | 14:01 |
| Doni^ | it's a bit like n95 without agps. | 14:01 |
| Doni^ | same chip? | 14:01 |
| johnx | b0unc3, is this indoors or outdoors? | 14:01 |
| b0unc3 | johnx: both | 14:01 |
| johnx | ah well, keep waiting | 14:01 |
| johnx | I think there is a thread on ITT where people compare notes about how long it took them | 14:02 |
| b0unc3 | uhm... ok .. I will search ... | 14:02 |
| johnx | I think a couple people ended up just leaving it searching by a window overnight | 14:02 |
| johnx | it's better after the first lock | 14:03 |
| jku | About the wifi positioning: it's entirely possible and would be quite accurate: I tried walking round the block constantly scanning networks: I got more than 200 networks with an average of more than 10 different observation points for each... | 14:03 |
| Doni^ | well it is not that accurate. | 14:04 |
| Doni^ | it is okay to give some estimation where you are. | 14:04 |
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| Doni^ | and of course is heavily dependent on the available wlans (fingerprints) | 14:04 |
| jku | Doni, what do you base that on? | 14:05 |
| Doni^ | jku: my opinion? | 14:05 |
| Doni^ | jku: experience | 14:05 |
| jku | have you tried this? | 14:05 |
| Doni^ | yes. | 14:05 |
| jku | any links? | 14:05 |
| lardman | is it possible to get the wifi chip to return the fingerprints and signal strengths though? | 14:06 |
| johnx | Doni^, well if you're really lost one AP will get you within 300ft which would be better than nothing | 14:06 |
| Doni^ | jku: no. | 14:06 |
| jku | lardman: yes | 14:06 |
| Doni^ | johnx: yes, yes. it's okay. would be good for assisting gps. | 14:06 |
| lardman | even with the closed source chip we use? | 14:06 |
| johnx | Doni^, it would be better than nothing for us without GPS | 14:06 |
| jku | lardman, yes | 14:06 |
| Doni^ | johnx: definitely. | 14:06 |
| lardman | jku: oh, good | 14:06 |
| johnx | thankfully only part of wifi driver is closed source | 14:07 |
| jku | Doni^, johnx: I'm guessinmg 30m accuracy is entirely possible in cities | 14:07 |
| jku | it would require good data on the server though | 14:07 |
| Doni^ | jku: yes. basically. | 14:07 |
| lardman | So what does one use, what is the fingerprint made up of? Hostip won't work unless you connect to them all | 14:07 |
| johnx | MAC | 14:08 |
| jku | you mean how toidentify them? MAC address | 14:08 |
| Doni^ | yes. i mean the idea is not to connect to the wlans | 14:08 |
| Doni^ | you don't need to do that. | 14:08 |
| johnx | (pretty much) globally unique | 14:08 |
| lardman | Doni^: yep, was wondering whether there were already dbs for MACs | 14:08 |
| Doni^ | you would have a database of wlan fingerprints and their geopositions | 14:08 |
| jku | lardman, yes but not free ones | 14:09 |
| Doni^ | probably. but i guess not freely available. | 14:09 |
| jku | lardman, see wigle.net (12million APs) | 14:09 |
| lardman | Would be easy enough to generate one from other people using the hostip/other ip based location services, just get them to report the MAC id and location abcl | 14:09 |
| lardman | back even | 14:09 |
| jku | hostip is useless, would need gps | 14:10 |
| jku | that's why n810 would be the right platform... | 14:10 |
| lardman | but how accurate do we need to be I wonder for agps? | 14:10 |
| Doni^ | yes. you need to collect them with wlan+gps capable device. | 14:10 |
| Doni^ | in order to place the wlan's on a map | 14:11 |
| lardman | ok | 14:11 |
| Doni^ | and from that map it is possible to calculate the position of the device using wlan only. by some error margin. | 14:11 |
| lardman | yep | 14:11 |
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| jku | Doni^, any chance you could share your experience on wlan mapping? I can give my email address if you prefer private... | 14:12 |
| lardman | hmm, still need something to boostrap agps with and i wonder if hostip is accurate enough, I'd imagine so | 14:12 |
| johnx | maybe we can convince the openstreetmap guys to help, given that they're already driving around with a GPS :) | 14:12 |
| Doni^ | jku: sure. | 14:12 |
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| lardman | I note there's nothing about AGPS on the roadmap, I wonder if something is planned or not | 14:15 |
| jku | johnx, the problem is that most of them are working with GPS devices that have no WLAN chip... | 14:16 |
| johnx | jku, they seem like the sort of people who might have a laptop or PDA though :) | 14:17 |
| jku | true and there is a large wardriving community that might get interested "for the common good" | 14:17 |
| _collin_ | people are still wardriving??? | 14:17 |
| lardman | got to go see a man about a shoulder | 14:17 |
| johnx | read: "an excuse to drive around and search for APs" | 14:17 |
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| jku | _collin_, wigle.net has _12 million_ APs and you can't even use their data for anything -- people have weird hobbies | 14:18 |
| _collin_ | :)) | 14:18 |
| johnx | _collin_, remember when wardriving was the new thing? | 14:18 |
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| _collin_ | yes I do | 14:18 |
| _collin_ | around 1999,2000 maybe end 2001 | 14:19 |
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| melmoth | With my new n810, i do kebabdriving. I roam the neighbourhood, and i note each doner i found as a maemomapper POI. | 14:20 |
| * melmoth loves it | 14:20 | |
| _collin_ | melmoth: :) | 14:20 |
| Cptnodegard | diner? | 14:20 |
| Luria | melmoth, you in berlin or somethin :-) | 14:21 |
| bencer | hi there, is there any way to access contact's fields with python ? maybe a dbus interface ? | 14:21 |
| Luria | ah, france | 14:21 |
| melmoth | Paris (but in a part of paris where there are not enough good kebab place) | 14:21 |
| Cptnodegard | why not use the internal map software which will show you any nearby POIs? :p | 14:21 |
| Luria | you threw me with doner. | 14:21 |
| jku | bencer, python-abook maybe? | 14:22 |
| Luria | was expecting turks, not algerians :-) | 14:22 |
| bencer | thanks jku :) | 14:22 |
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| Blafasel | H.. osso-xterm doesn't notice a terminated shell? ^D closes the shell, but the window stays? | 14:30 |
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| zuh | I'm annoyed by that too | 14:32 |
| * dpb_ too | 14:34 | |
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| _collin_ | Blafasel: you are using iodine, right? do you have a nice addon script for running it? | 14:36 |
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| florian | re | 14:39 |
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| Blafasel | _collin_: No, not at all yet. I'll try to come up with something, though. I'd like to have a way to create a "connection" via iodine from the GUI | 14:40 |
| Blafasel | Maybe I can look into it tonight | 14:40 |
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| _collin_ | Blafasel: ah ok, I would suggest Python | 14:41 |
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| Blafasel | I'll drop you a line if I can get something running | 14:42 |
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| _collin_working_ | Blafasel: cool | 14:43 |
| Jaffa | lardman|away/jku: I read an article which said the iPod's location is done by a company providing the service. They drive around with a GPS, identifying ESSIDs being broadcast at locations. 70% of US covered, expanding Europe and Asia coverage ATM. Colleague's iPod Touch worked very well with it in London. | 14:44 |
| * Jaffa has considered packet sniffing an iPod to see if it's directly usable ;-) | 14:45 | |
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| jku | Jaffa, it's skyhookwireless, AFAIK. They're the biggest in the field | 14:45 |
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| Jaffa | jku: Yeah, that was it. Struggled to remember the name. | 14:49 |
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| jku | Doni^, only just noticed you're a finn: if you manage to mail me some info, feel free to do it in finnish... | 14:57 |
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| Doni^ | jku: ok | 15:08 |
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| maddler | Jaffa: I wonder how easy would be to misplace an iPod using messed up ESSIDs! :0 | 15:17 |
| maddler | :D | 15:17 |
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| Jaffa | maddler: :-) | 15:21 |
| |tbb| | jaffa: but nice they try to doing something. is it not possible to collect the mac of an ap with combinate essid. | 15:25 |
| maddler | |tbb|: why not? | 15:27 |
| johnx | they would be crazy not to be using the MAC (aka BSSID) of the network and simply ignoring ad-hoc networks entirely | 15:28 |
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| |tbb| | the icd of nokia seems that dumb, cause it try connects to an ap which got the same name as it stored in iap | 15:30 |
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| Jaffa | icd is super dumb in so many ways | 15:31 |
| Jaffa | qgil's blog post on Trolltech acquisition is good. | 15:31 |
| hugolp | Jaffa: link? | 15:32 |
| |tbb| | jaffa, lol | 15:32 |
| johnx | hugolp, http://flors.wordpress.com/ I think | 15:33 |
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| maddler | http://flors.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/gnomes-trolls-and-the-maemo-lands/ | 15:37 |
| |tbb| | 1. offline mode 2. wlan on but not connected to any ap and search for ap set to never, will the first method save more batterypower and how much if so? | 15:38 |
| inz | offline also disables bluetooth, but that doesn't change all that much | 15:41 |
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| * Jaffa raises an icd bug based on our recent discussion and various problems discussed on ITT: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2857 | 15:56 | |
| michele | I wonder how skyhook gets its data when I am not connected to an AP | 16:00 |
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| michele | oh, it seems it has a local cache | 16:00 |
| LoCusF | has anyone tried to compile lftp for IT's ? | 16:00 |
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| * lardman now has a yellow rubber band for his shoulder | 16:15 | |
| micko_21 | Hello, how to turn on/off the gps receiver from commandline on N810? | 16:17 |
| lardman | micko_21: there's probably some dbus message you could use | 16:19 |
| lardman | micko_21: so some listening when you start one of the apps and see what they say | 16:19 |
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| LoCusF | http://pastebin.ca/878575 <- any idea what this means (while trying to install to n810). This package installs just fine in scratchbox | 16:25 |
| lardman | run out of disk space? | 16:25 |
| n0ob_ | could be one possibility | 16:26 |
| Veggen | ...or memory card damaged? | 16:26 |
| Veggen | (or wherever it's reading the package from) | 16:26 |
| n0ob_ | Veggen: it should be writing to, or? "failed to write" | 16:26 |
| jku | LoCusF, check that the deb is not damaged in transfer | 16:26 |
| Veggen | mm, looks like it's write yes. | 16:27 |
| johnx | debian w/ epiphany-webkit: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/debianepiphany-webkit.png | 16:27 |
| Veggen | I'd install strace and run it through that. | 16:27 |
| LoCusF | jku: ok | 16:28 |
| johnx | I guess I should add that the screenshot was taken on an N800 :) | 16:29 |
| Jaffa | michele: you found some info on the technical detail of how it works? | 16:29 |
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| _collin_working_ | johnx: oh wow ... are you working on this? | 16:32 |
| johnx | I'm just putting parts together | 16:33 |
| _collin_working_ | sure but still a lot of work/knowledge | 16:33 |
| LoCusF | Veggen: you knew | 16:33 |
| johnx | and quite a bit of hacking around :) | 16:33 |
| michele | Jaffa: no, I just read the "how it works" page | 16:33 |
| LoCusF | the thing is that it was /media/mmc2 that had the problem :/ | 16:33 |
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| jku | LoCusF, what I thought... FAT should be banned | 16:35 |
| LoCusF | jku: yup | 16:35 |
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| Jaffa | michele: ah | 16:36 |
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| LoCusF | does someone want the package, it works ok on my n810 | 16:37 |
| michele | Jaffa: it says it has a local cache, but when connected you will have better accuracy and updates to the data | 16:38 |
| michele | and the client on your own device will be updating the global data | 16:39 |
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| Jaffa | michele: very cool. I wonder how likely it is that the connection between device and service is just plain, reproducible, HTTP | 16:40 |
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| michele | Jaffa: for sure it has authentication | 16:41 |
| michele | there is a tiny example on the site | 16:42 |
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| michele | Jaffa: I would guess at least https | 16:42 |
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| inz | Humm, is there something with my email server or client, or is someone else receiving maemo-dev mails thrice? | 16:50 |
| Tak | I'm only getting them once afaict | 16:51 |
| lardman | I'm ok, perhaps you're just lucky | 16:51 |
| inz | Seems so | 16:51 |
| lardman | I do seem to get them in the wrong order sometimes though | 16:51 |
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| Tak | what is with all these trolls on the dev-list? "I've never used gtk, but qt has a much nicer api..." | 16:53 |
| Juhaz | well, it's not called trolltech for nothing... | 16:54 |
| Nermal | olololol | 16:54 |
| * Nermal keels over | 16:54 | |
| johnx | 'night all | 16:54 |
| * johnx sleeps | 16:54 | |
| lardman | The sight of C++ does that | 16:54 |
| lardman | both falling asleep and keeling over | 16:54 |
| Tak | Juhaz: excellent point | 16:55 |
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| * Nermal unsubscribed from maemo-dev when he couldn't see a way of making the maemo mail app only flash the light and alerts for certain mail folders | 16:55 | |
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| inz | Tak, I haven't seen any, maybe gmail's spam filter has gone berserk again | 16:59 |
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| michele | has anybody disassembled an N810 and took pictures? | 17:01 |
| _collin_working_ | I guess it is kind of hard to get at the moment, right? | 17:02 |
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| lophyte | hey all | 17:21 |
| Nermal | lo :) | 17:21 |
| LoCusF | can I repartition the internal memory card to use ext2? | 17:23 |
| LoCusF | on n810? | 17:23 |
| _collin_working_ | what is it? FAT? | 17:23 |
| LoCusF | yeah | 17:24 |
| _collin_working_ | it probably is to be useable when the device is in usb-disk mode | 17:24 |
| _collin_working_ | that is what you loos if you switch to ext | 17:24 |
| _collin_working_ | it will only work on a linux box | 17:24 |
| lophyte | ext2 works on the n800 | 17:25 |
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| _collin_working_ | sure | 17:25 |
| lophyte | it just doesn't auto-mount, you have to mount it manually | 17:25 |
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| LoCusF | what about fstab? | 17:25 |
| lophyte | yeah you could probably edit the fstab | 17:25 |
| lophyte | though I think what collin is saying is that you won't be able to plug it into a Windows box and have access to the cards if they're formatted as ext2 | 17:26 |
| zoran | could you post your fstab? | 17:26 |
| Nermal | add "auto" to the options :) | 17:26 |
| MoRpHeUz | hey, flash stopped working on my n800's browser...any ideas ? (chinook) | 17:26 |
| _collin_working_ | lophyte: that was my point :) | 17:27 |
| tank-man | MoRpHeUz, make sure the plugin is enabled | 17:27 |
| lophyte | I thought so | 17:27 |
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| lophyte | anyone know where canola downloads podcast files to? | 17:28 |
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| MoRpHeUz | tank-man: thanks...I dont know how it was disabled (or even more important, who hehe) thanks | 17:30 |
| MoRpHeUz | =) | 17:30 |
| _collin_working_ | I was also wondering, since I actually want to download to an external sd card | 17:30 |
| _collin_working_ | also I want automatic downloads | 17:30 |
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| lophyte | _collin_working_, me too | 17:31 |
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| _collin_working_ | canola looks nice but is way to slow, so right now I download via browser copy via usb and use the mediaplayer | 17:32 |
| lophyte | I don't find it slow | 17:32 |
| _collin_working_ | startup time? download speed? | 17:32 |
| _collin_working_ | gui is fast | 17:32 |
| _collin_working_ | sure | 17:32 |
| lophyte | true enough | 17:33 |
| michele | eh, and the mediaplayer has a slow UI too... | 17:33 |
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| sKaBoy | videocenter works fine for podcast (can save to external card but no automatic dl iirc) | 17:33 |
| sKaBoy | it uses mediaplayer or mplayer to play | 17:33 |
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| lophyte | videocenter eh, maybe I'll give it a try | 17:36 |
| lophyte | maybe I should just write a python script to check for new podcasts and download them | 17:36 |
| lophyte | and run it in a cronjob | 17:37 |
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| LoCusF | ok, reformatting now :) | 17:39 |
| LoCusF | backed up first of course :) | 17:39 |
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| Jaffa | michele: have you downloaded the Skyhook Wireless SDK? http://www.skyhookwireless.com/developers/sdk.php | 17:43 |
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| Jaffa | It claims Linux support (but presumably x86) | 17:44 |
| LoCusF | umm it won't unmount ;( | 17:44 |
| _collin_working_ | some app has some open files on it | 17:44 |
| LoCusF | checked with fuser and lsof, no apps with open files | 17:44 |
| _collin_working_ | mmh | 17:45 |
| _collin_working_ | what error? | 17:45 |
| _collin_working_ | any error | 17:45 |
| LoCusF | device or resource busy | 17:45 |
| _collin_working_ | cd / | 17:45 |
| _collin_working_ | umount ... | 17:45 |
| zoran | /c/c | 17:45 |
| LoCusF | didn't work :) | 17:46 |
| LoCusF | I was at home folder | 17:46 |
| LoCusF | gaah directory whatnot | 17:46 |
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| LoCusF | oh yeah swap | 17:49 |
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| LoCusF | ok disabled swap, that did it | 17:51 |
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| Jaffa | Whoa. jku/michele/lardman: registered for Skyhook Wireless SDK. Linux download is indeed Linux 2.6 (x86), however there's a Maemo 3.1 tarball. | 17:52 |
| Blafasel | Jaffa: License? | 17:52 |
| shackan | Jaffa: what is it? | 17:53 |
| shackan | oh, essid based triangulation.. | 17:54 |
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| lardman | Jaffa: ah, that's interesting | 17:57 |
| maddler | Jaffa: I am curious to know if/how it works... | 17:58 |
| maddler | lardman: lazy bummer! still no blog post! :D | 17:59 |
| lardman | maddler: yeah, yeah! | 17:59 |
| maddler | hehehe | 17:59 |
| lardman | maddler: I've got to remember what I was doing first | 17:59 |
| lardman | :) | 17:59 |
| * Jaffa is checking the executables to see if they're x86 or ARM binaries. Given it's command line it may work on chinook | 18:01 | |
| Jaffa | And this is a development SDK, not a "you can release this" thing | 18:01 |
| Jaffa | Commercial releases require $ | 18:01 |
| Jaffa | wpsd: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, not stripped | 18:02 |
| maddler | lardman: hehehe... I keep forgetting what I was doing as soon as I switch windows! :D | 18:02 |
| LoCusF | oooh crap | 18:02 |
| LoCusF | the backup seemed to have failed | 18:02 |
| Blafasel | Hmm.. screen would be nice. Hopefully I finally get started tonight with some fiddling | 18:03 |
| Jaffa | Any suggestions on what libiw might be? | 18:05 |
| _collin_working_ | wireless tools | 18:05 |
| Jaffa | Yup, Google was my friend | 18:05 |
| _collin_working_ | but should be on the device... | 18:06 |
| _collin_working_ | or maybe I just linked statically | 18:06 |
| Jaffa | No, it is - but bora had libiw.so.28, chinook has libiw.so.29 | 18:06 |
| _collin_working_ | right | 18:07 |
| Jaffa | Bah. segfault. | 18:09 |
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| Blafasel | Hmm.. Does "type" work for anyone in a shell? | 18:11 |
| Tak | type? isn't that a DOS command? | 18:12 |
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| Blafasel | Uhm. No. Yes, as well. | 18:13 |
| Blafasel | But obviously that's not what I'm talking about ;) | 18:13 |
| K-Fox | is it difficult to port the x86 application to Maemo linux? | 18:13 |
| K-Fox | ubuntu files... | 18:14 |
| K-Fox | gentoo.. | 18:14 |
| lardman | probably a bit advanced to be included in the default busybox | 18:14 |
| michele | Blafasel: I think type is a bash builtin | 18:14 |
| * michele checks | 18:15 | |
| lardman | K-Fox: which application? | 18:15 |
| michele | $ type type | 18:15 |
| michele | type is a shell builtin | 18:15 |
| Jaffa | K-Fox: depends on the application. Varies between works out of the box (e.g. shell scripts, Perl, Python) to really quite tricky (Qt apps, Java) | 18:15 |
| Blafasel | michele: If you just type "type", does it crash for you? | 18:15 |
| Blafasel | It does for me, at least. | 18:15 |
| michele | Tak: type is similar to which, but it also tells you if something is an alias or what | 18:16 |
| michele | Blafasel: haven't tried on an IT | 18:16 |
| lardman | well we're using ash not bash | 18:16 |
| Blafasel | michele: Ah.. Well, that's the problem though ;) Crashes for me (and the shell dies..) if it gets no argument | 18:16 |
| Tak | how unusual | 18:16 |
| K-Fox | jaffa: ok | 18:17 |
| Blafasel | So "type type" works, "type" tears down the shell (& ssh connection etc.). Odd. | 18:17 |
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| michele | yes, crashes here too | 18:20 |
| Jaffa | Blafasel: there's a bug in Bugzilla about it IIRC | 18:21 |
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| Blafasel | Jaffa: Ok, thanks. Have limited connectivity here (this is via ssh/screen/irssi..), couldn't search the web at work. | 18:22 |
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| |tbb| | gotta go cya later | 18:36 |
| lardman | Is there a version of Octave for os2008 knocking about? | 18:37 |
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| Stalwart | does osso-xterm support fonts in .pcf.gz format? | 18:38 |
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| alterego | Got a new phone from my brother as he bought an N95 8G .. But this damn N80 is locked to Vodaphone and I want to be on Orange .. | 18:38 |
| alterego | Gonna cost me a pretty penny to unlock this bugger .. | 18:39 |
| lardman | cheaper than a new phone though ;) | 18:39 |
| alterego | I guess. | 18:39 |
| alterego | I'd still rather not pay. | 18:39 |
| alterego | Locked phones really p*ss me off .. | 18:39 |
| zoran | alterego, could you just download new softwre and install? | 18:39 |
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| alterego | Can I do that? | 18:40 |
| zoran | I think so | 18:40 |
| zoran | I have an option for my 6233 | 18:40 |
| alterego | I'm really out of touch with the phone side of technology :) | 18:40 |
| zoran | no biggie | 18:40 |
| lardman | your brother might be able to get the phone unlocked for you if that doens't work | 18:40 |
| lardman | once the network have recouped the cost they tend to unlock them for a fee | 18:41 |
| alterego | lardman, yeah. I was just thinking about that. He should be able to phone up his carrier and get the unlock code right? | 18:41 |
| lardman | yep, but it normally costs some fee | 18:41 |
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| lardman | if you can reflash the firmware that's a cheaper option | 18:41 |
| alterego | Hmm | 18:41 |
| zoran | nokia site could help | 18:41 |
| lardman | "administration fee" I think they call it ;D | 18:42 |
| alterego | I'm gonna continue to explore all my avenues before I decide what to do. | 18:42 |
| alterego | I doubt phoning Nokia and asking them for it will work :) | 18:42 |
| zoran | hm, gmsarena? | 18:42 |
| lardman | probably not :) | 18:42 |
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| lardman | so, no-one's compiled Octave yet? | 18:43 |
| glass | alterego: ask around some unlock shops | 18:43 |
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| alterego | Yeah, I'm gonna pay a visit to my friend who works at the local Nokia authorized dealer place. | 18:43 |
| glass | hehe.. | 18:44 |
| glass | i reckon some unofficial places would be better | 18:44 |
| glass | londons chinatown is full of 'em anyhow | 18:44 |
| lardman | when I look at a page like this: http://packages.debian.org/sid/octave3.0 and see all those deps I don't need, it makes me cry | 18:44 |
| * lardman must work out how to cleanly remove deps from a debian build package | 18:45 | |
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| lardman | Jaffa: what's the deal with the skyhook files then? | 18:46 |
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| alterego | Wow, the mobile web browser on this thing is pretty awesome. | 18:51 |
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| Nermal | I got round the lock code on the n800 | 18:52 |
| alterego | Obviously that doesn't matter though. As my N810 is for browsing :) | 18:52 |
| Nermal | oh | 18:52 |
| Nermal | different conversation :) | 18:52 |
| fysa | Octave? | 18:53 |
| fysa | the language? | 18:53 |
| Jaffa | lardman|gone: segfaulted on running (I cp'ed /lib/libiw.so.29 to /usr/local/lib/libiw.so.28), help was output but running it got sigsegv. Emailed them to ask if they're going to compile a chinook version. | 18:53 |
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| maddler | ok... time to head home... | 19:00 |
| maddler | l8r dudes... | 19:00 |
| fysa | http://www.hydrogen-music.org/images/screenshots/hydrogen-0.9.2.png | 19:01 |
| fysa | too bad it uses Qt :) | 19:01 |
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| fysa | maybe I can statically link? | 19:01 |
| jku | Jaffa, I'm not interested enough to test skyhook. It'll cost money to use and any interesting bits are going to be in the triangulation algorithms which are a) closed and b) patented up the wazoo | 19:04 |
| fysa | http://gneutronica.sourceforge.net/pattern_editor.png | 19:05 |
| fysa | gneutronica compiles :) | 19:05 |
| Tak | that screenshot is completely wrong - I don't see /anything/ on the Cowbell track... | 19:05 |
| fysa | haha | 19:06 |
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| fysa | http://muth.org/Robert/Trommler/screenshot.3.7.png | 19:07 |
| fysa | Trommler also compiles (not trying PyTrommler yet) | 19:07 |
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| bilboed | so... who should I contact if my maemo rebate code doesn't work ? | 19:09 |
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| fysa | http://xoops.widelands.org/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/10001/Widelands-reactos.jpg | 19:17 |
| fysa | Widelands is happily compiling now, performance is another matter ;) | 19:17 |
| fysa | Stella is also compiling fine -- would you want to add that to xmaeme, Tak? | 19:17 |
| Jaffa | jku: true, but I'm in happy happy greedy user mode atm ;-) | 19:18 |
| fysa | hmm. maybe not. | 19:18 |
| Tak | doesn't stella have a builtin launcher? http://stella.sourceforge.net/game-images/launcher.png | 19:18 |
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| fysa | ah, I suppose so. | 19:19 |
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| fysa | geany compiles -> http://geany.uvena.de/images/geany_main.png | 19:26 |
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| fysa | BTW -- my plan is to debianize these all in sets after I profile apps with similar porting issues together | 19:27 |
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| lardman | jku: What was the package I need to install in Scratchbox to get those gps headers? | 19:28 |
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| jku | lardman, libgpsbt-dev iirc | 19:30 |
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| fysa | http://mange.dynalias.org/linux/gproftpd/screenshots/gproftpd_user_directories.png | 19:34 |
| bilboed | slomo, that patch for mpeg2enc you applied breaks the build here | 19:34 |
| fysa | gproftpd compiles fine, the entire gadmintools might be nice to have for some. | 19:35 |
| bilboed | slomo, was meant to send you that on #gstreamer :) | 19:35 |
| lardman_ | what's the apt-* command to list the files in a package? | 19:35 |
| Tak | dpkg --contents ? | 19:36 |
| lardman_ | ah, if it's already installed? | 19:37 |
| fysa | apt-cache showpkg may? | 19:37 |
| lardman_ | no, doesn't show contents | 19:37 |
| lardman_ | --listfiles perhaps | 19:37 |
| lardman_ | yep, dpkg --listfiles | 19:38 |
| lardman_ | thanks chaps | 19:39 |
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| darkip | hey, does anyone know if i can mount drives from the host environment in scratch box? | 19:41 |
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| fysa | mount --bind | 19:47 |
| fysa | I use mount --bind to mount $HOME/src into /scratchbox/blah/blah/blah/rootstrap/home/jfisher/src | 19:48 |
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| fysa | do it in the host environment though. | 19:48 |
| darkip | ah, i see now | 19:49 |
| darkip | cheers | 19:49 |
| fysa | http://quadra.sourceforge.net/images/shot-02.jpg | 19:50 |
| fysa | doesn't compile yet, but looks like it could be fun. (multiplayer tetris) | 19:50 |
| * lardman_ needs slice | 19:51 | |
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| fysa | lincity compiles -> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/6/66/20070102011507!Lincity.png | 19:55 |
| Tak | /lots/ of stuff compiles | 19:56 |
| Jaffa | fysa: are you listing every app you've compiled in Scratchbox, cos that could get very boring very quickly ;-) | 19:57 |
| fysa | just the apps that I'd like to debianize | 19:57 |
| fysa | but I'll stop now ;) | 19:58 |
| lardman_ | urg, thought I'd be able to compile Octave quickly, but now I remember we're missing a FORTRAN compiler | 19:58 |
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| Tak | fysa: go for it, man | 20:00 |
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| lardman_ | aaargh! The browser is driving me insane | 20:12 |
| lardman_ | On ITT, it takes forever to load a page, even with images turned off | 20:12 |
| lardman_ | phew, I feel better now | 20:12 |
| fysa | did you try raising ng render delay in about:config? | 20:13 |
| lardman_ | no, what does that do? | 20:13 |
| lardman_ | ng? | 20:13 |
| fysa | by default, for me, it was set to -1 which isn't a proper value -- I believe it ends up being 0, which is basically real-time rendering of HTML | 20:13 |
| lardman_ | it seems to sit there are loading 14/15, God knows what that is | 20:13 |
| fysa | any tag that comes in gets rendered instantly -- I raised mine to 500, which should wait 500ms before attempting to render. | 20:14 |
| zuh | lardman_: ITT is IMO dog slow even on desktop... | 20:14 |
| lardman_ | zuh: yeah, too many bloody pictures | 20:14 |
| fysa | pages seem to load faster over-all if you don't bog down the renderer while it's trying to manage all the connections | 20:14 |
| lardman_ | fysa: I'll have a look at that, thanks | 20:15 |
| fysa | the default is around 300-1000 as recommended by various mozilla reports/buglist | 20:15 |
| zuh | lardman_: That, and something in the design seems to make the page reflow the whole structure many times | 20:15 |
| fysa | that's what I'm talking about, zuh | 20:15 |
| fysa | if you have it wait a bit before trying to render anything, it seems to waste less time rendering it improperly first | 20:16 |
| Tak | hmm | 20:16 |
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| * Tak will try fysa's tip | 20:16 | |
| fysa | ng paint delay maybe. | 20:16 |
| alterego | Well, tried "updating" the software and it didn't remove the SIM lock unfortunately. | 20:17 |
| alterego | Guess I'll have to phone voda crap :/ | 20:17 |
| fysa | you can also increase the number of simultaneous connections -- I doubled the default values | 20:17 |
| lardman_ | hmm, appears to have locked up loading about:config | 20:18 |
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| lardman_ | :( | 20:23 |
| lardman_ | just sits there with the scrolly bar half way across and locks up | 20:23 |
| fysa | close all/restart browser? | 20:23 |
| lardman_ | yeah, I've had to kill it a few times already | 20:23 |
| fysa | can you go to a regular page first and then do about:config? | 20:24 |
| fysa | in the same window? | 20:24 |
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| fysa | I remember it locking a few times for me before. I might have had to reboot. | 20:24 |
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| lardman_ | like the home page? That doesn't work nor an internet page | 20:24 |
| lardman_ | yeah, I need to enable R&D mode anyway | 20:24 |
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| lardman_ | do os2007 command line apps work on os2008? I don't see why they wouldn't | 20:27 |
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| Blafasel | lardman_: shared libraries, dependencies? | 20:28 |
| smackpotato | google.com | 20:29 |
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| fysa | heh | 20:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | fysa, the paint delay helped a fair bit. | 20:30 |
| fysa | which value are you using? | 20:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 500 | 20:31 |
| fysa | ooo. Liferea + WebKit would be nice. v | 20:31 |
| fysa | http://liferea.sourceforge.net/screenshots/combined.png | 20:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Looks like it'd fit pretty well. | 20:32 |
| fysa | I want that "Unread" folder. | 20:32 |
| fysa | don't like how the built-in reader makes me scroll through my entire list to see what has new stuff ;) | 20:33 |
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| Blafasel | fysa: Did you talk about nglayout.initialpaint.delay? | 20:33 |
| fysa | that's what it is. | 20:33 |
| fysa | nglayout.initialpaint.delay | 20:33 |
| Blafasel | Hmm.. -3? | 20:33 |
| fysa | I tried to find an underlying meaning for the negative value, but came up with nothing. | 20:34 |
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| fysa | like GeneralAntilles said, seems to run better set to something sensible | 20:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | The temporal-adjustment plugin wasn't finished. | 20:34 |
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| lardman_ | Blafasel: hopefully backward compatible | 20:34 |
| smackpotato | i looked at that. changed it to 250. it didnt do much | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman_, some stuff hard-links against the old versions. | 20:35 |
| fysa | you close all browsers/reopen? 250 may still be low. | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did you restart it, smackpotato? | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, yeah. | 20:35 |
| fysa | it definitely works -- set it to 3000 and you will wait 3 seconds before it renders anything. | 20:35 |
| fysa | given the speed of our devices/wifi, I would keep it 500 or higher. | 20:35 |
| Dashiad | Can someone point me to some code to rotate the screen? | 20:35 |
| smackpotato | ok | 20:36 |
| fysa | 250 is OK for the desktop | 20:36 |
| smackpotato | ya | 20:36 |
| fysa | (real firefox) | 20:36 |
| smackpotato | k | 20:37 |
| jott | fysa: heh just tested hydrogen you mentioned earlier.. runs quite nice on the n810 :) | 20:38 |
| fysa | nice! | 20:38 |
| lardman_ | GeneralAntilles, Blafasel: Octave is ok | 20:38 |
| Blafasel | liferea looks really nice | 20:38 |
| fysa | just compile and run? | 20:38 |
| smackpotato | does anyone have a utillity that keeps the screen on | 20:39 |
| fysa | yes, I am very excited about liferea. | 20:39 |
| jott | fysa: yeah.. debian/sid backport | 20:39 |
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| jott | it seems to miss a fullscreen option though.. :/ | 20:39 |
| fysa | it uses Qt.. | 20:39 |
| jott | quite some space wasted.. | 20:39 |
| fysa | that could be why. | 20:39 |
| lardman_ | and gnuplot also works from os2007, phew | 20:40 |
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| jott | well.. qt apps can also support fullscreen ,) | 20:40 |
| Blafasel | Okay, quick poll: I want to get started with small apps for my toy here. I'm earning my money with java/.net and know some perl/shell stuff, but no python, ruby (or C). What would you suggest, what has nice hildon bindings? | 20:40 |
| jott | and it's a typical app you may want to run in fs. | 20:40 |
| fysa | maybe the full-screen button doesn't work with Qt apps? | 20:40 |
| lardman_ | Blafasel: Realistically C, but Python is easy and has lots of bindings | 20:40 |
| jott | no..full-screen button does not work for sure.. but i hoped for a menu entry ;) | 20:41 |
| fysa | ah | 20:41 |
| jku | Blafasel, C and python are your only real choices | 20:41 |
| Blafasel | lardman_: Are there some nice tutorials on maemo.org somewhere? Hello World in Hildon? ;) | 20:41 |
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| Blafasel | jku: *sigh*.. C then ;) | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ruby is an option, too. | 20:41 |
| fysa | there are lovely tutorials, Blafasel. | 20:41 |
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| jott | fysa: but otherwise this thing runs amazingly well .. | 20:41 |
| fysa | slick. | 20:42 |
| jott | atleast all the demos play without stutter | 20:42 |
| lardman_ | Blafasel: for c or python? | 20:42 |
| jott | (but cpu is at 100% and ui gets a bit sluggish.. but no wonder) | 20:42 |
| Blafasel | lardman_: C | 20:42 |
| jku | GeneralAntilles,"nice bindings" was part of the question... | 20:43 |
| lardman_ | well basic gtk+, then some minor tweaks to Hildonise which are in the tutorials | 20:43 |
| fysa | which version is that, jott? | 20:43 |
| dphil9000 | i'd take -1 to mean disabled, like boolean false | 20:43 |
| fysa | "Fixed various bugs related to Jack audio driver; Fixed 100% CPU usage bug." | 20:43 |
| Blafasel | lardman_: Okay, will search for gtk+ stuff then | 20:43 |
| fysa | that's as of 22 Feb 06 | 20:43 |
| jott | fysa: oh.. 0.9.3 .. | 20:43 |
| fysa | ah, that's latest anyway | 20:44 |
| fysa | wait - | 20:44 |
| fysa | 0.9.3 was releasd on 22 Feb 06 | 20:44 |
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| jott | well it's 400Mhz so we can assume 100% cpu usage is quite reasonable while mixing multiple tracks and doing fancy ui effects ;) | 20:44 |
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| fysa | svn is newer. | 20:44 |
| fysa | definitely :) | 20:44 |
| fysa | that will be a fun app to play with on the plane. | 20:44 |
| lardman_ | Blafasel: For quick stuff Python is quite good though | 20:45 |
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| fysa | dphil9000: for paintdelay? I thought so also, but it's impossible to disable. It ends up defaulting to 0 delay. | 20:45 |
| dphil9000 | hmm | 20:45 |
| jott | fysa: yeah.. i also have schism tracker running... also quite nice (more of an oldskool tracker) | 20:46 |
| lardman_ | drat, ssh isn't working | 20:46 |
| Blafasel | lardman_: Not my style, if those two options are the best I'll prefer brushing up my (weak) C skillsets | 20:46 |
| * jott starts 2nd Reality - Unreal ][ (PM).s3m in schism tracker on his n810 :) | 20:47 | |
| fysa | gneutronica and trommler are simple drum machine-type interfaces that seem to work | 20:47 |
| lardman_ | Blafasel: Python can also be altered on the device, no compiler needed, which may be an advantage | 20:47 |
| fysa | one of those may be OSS though | 20:47 |
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| melmoth | plus python comes with a nice pygtk tutorial :) | 20:48 |
| lardman_ | I hate that tutoria; | 20:48 |
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| lardman_ | I'd far prefer a book | 20:49 |
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| Tak | Vala! | 20:49 |
| melmoth | a book on pygtk ? Is there one ? | 20:49 |
| LoCusF | what the heck is Vala? | 20:49 |
| lardman_ | I don't think so | 20:49 |
| melmoth | the only gtk book i saw were c targeted | 20:49 |
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| Tak | http://live.gnome.org/Vala | 20:49 |
| * lardman_ just doesn't like online tutorials | 20:49 | |
| dphil9000 | voila? | 20:49 |
| jku | Vala seems really cool, but haven't tried anything other than a Hello world | 20:50 |
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| Tak | ce n'est pas "voila" :-P | 20:50 |
| Tak | jku: xmaeme 0.13 is in vala | 20:50 |
| fysa | ooo | 20:50 |
| jku | tak, oh? nice | 20:51 |
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| fysa | yeah, vala is what you should use Blafasel. ;) | 20:51 |
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| fysa | http://live.gnome.org/Vala/HildonSample | 20:51 |
| LoCusF | cool that the GNOME guys realized that pure C isn't the thing for newbies these days :) | 20:51 |
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| Blafasel | fysa: Vala looks interesting, yes | 20:52 |
| maddler | hey ho! | 20:52 |
| Blafasel | Might be even a better choice for me | 20:52 |
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| jku | They're planning to automatically generate bindings, but I'm not sure how complete the current ones are... | 20:54 |
| |tbb| | re | 20:54 |
| Tak | the gtk and hildon bindings are pretty complete | 20:54 |
| Tak | at least for hildon-1 and hildon-fm-2 | 20:55 |
| jku | nice, I'll have to take a look | 20:55 |
| fysa | I can't find the daphne source? | 20:56 |
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| lardman_ | What does the NMEA message PNOKU do/mean? | 20:56 |
| fysa | oh, there it is. | 20:57 |
| jku | is there such a message? | 20:57 |
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| lardman_ | indeed, looking at strings, and from a google: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=134527 | 20:57 |
| jku | lardman_, just because a device outputs it doesn't mean it's nmea. a lot of manufacturers make up their own messages | 20:58 |
| lardman_ | yeah, I was wondering what it meant though, it's certainly not standard | 20:58 |
| lardman_ | my fault for not explaining | 20:58 |
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| jku | yes, right | 20:59 |
| lardman_ | The start letter P stands for proprietary | 21:00 |
| jku | oh, I didn't even know that. Never worked with them, just noticed they exist | 21:01 |
| jku | the next 3 letters are supposed to be a manufacturer code apparently... "NOK" | 21:02 |
| lardman_ | http://www.windmill.co.uk/nmea.html for example | 21:02 |
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| lardman_ | allows lots of devices to provide and you can decide what you want | 21:03 |
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| Blafasel | Is there any lib/api to control this nice led on the corner of my n810? | 21:05 |
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| |tbb| | Blafasel: you can define colors etc. by /etc/mce/mce.ini and later start or stop it by dbus | 21:06 |
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| Blafasel | Ah, thanks | 21:09 |
| |tbb| | inform me if you find out whats the njoy format ;) | 21:10 |
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| fysa | http://www.happypenguin.org/images/vultures2shop.png - this should work fine (slashem/nethack with isometric 2D graphics) | 21:11 |
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| jott | who needs a lava lamp when you can have "PatternPsychedelia" ;) | 21:12 |
| lardman_ | jku: I've grabbed those headers, am going to take a look at the gspdriver file to see what arguments it takes | 21:12 |
| jku | I assume the libs just push something to the control socket (defined in one header) | 21:13 |
| |tbb| | jott: this was one of the main goal from the designer of the n810, n900 replace coffee machine hopefully | 21:13 |
| * Tak agree with |tbb| | 21:14 | |
| lardman_ | jku: yes, I'll take a look at that, depending on how complex the code is | 21:14 |
| jku | cool | 21:14 |
| lardman_ | supper first, will be back a bit later on | 21:14 |
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| jott | |tbb|: hmm yeah a portable coffee machine would definitely be something i would consider a worthwile upgrade ;) | 21:16 |
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| jott | for now it can only be used as a Coffee Tablet (CT) ;) | 21:17 |
| fysa | Coffee Table(t)? | 21:17 |
| jott | isn't that a typical usecase? transport hot coffee with a n810? ;) | 21:19 |
| Tak | I just download it from the nearest Wireless Coffee Point | 21:20 |
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| jott | ah via a virtual coffee network? | 21:21 |
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| darkip | hmm, i've just realised navit is crap. | 21:31 |
| darkip | and i've been porting it for the last few days.. | 21:31 |
| darkip | how annoying... | 21:31 |
| vandenoever | will there be maemo people at fosdem this year? | 21:32 |
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| darkip | what are other people's opinions on navit? | 21:34 |
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| fysa | never tried it | 21:35 |
| fysa | how is Roadster? | 21:35 |
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| darkip | Roadster? | 21:35 |
| darkip | i know roadnav is ported but there's no UK maps | 21:35 |
| darkip | which means it's useless to me | 21:35 |
| fysa | hmm, maybe dead | 21:35 |
| darkip | i pretty much have navit working in scratchbox | 21:35 |
| darkip | but i suddenly realised, it's rubbish | 21:36 |
| fysa | http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/attachments/linux/34562d1157775234-linux-gps-roadster-roadster-0.2.4-1.png | 21:36 |
| darkip | or at least the version i have (CVS) can't seem to find places by location | 21:36 |
| darkip | maybe the CVS version is bust... | 21:37 |
| darkip | hmm | 21:37 |
| darkip | i'll have a look into roadster... | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | If anybody is interested: http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/7/ | 21:37 |
| fysa | http://www.gnomad-mapping.com/ | 21:38 |
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| Tak | GeneralAntilles: that one's a must-have | 21:39 |
| fysa | slick | 21:39 |
| Blafasel | GeneralAntilles: ;-) I thought the youtube (flash) support was one of the main selling points, but I see the need ;) | 21:39 |
| * Tak read that as gonad-mapping.com | 21:39 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Blafasel, the idea is to only load the flash stuff you want to see. :) | 21:39 |
| fysa | maybe ITT will be usable now ;) | 21:40 |
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| darkip | fysa: nice :) | 21:40 |
| Blafasel | fysa: That map stuff looks nice, but - I never ever got one useable GPS connection with my device. | 21:40 |
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| Blafasel | It happend _once_, at home. Never outside (and never again in my flat either). Seems like I used it up ;) | 21:40 |
| darkip | ah but it lacks navigation | 21:41 |
| Blafasel | Why does the browser need a double-restart, though? | 21:41 |
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| fysa | http://raphael.slinckx.net/deskbar/screenshots.php#current | 21:48 |
| fysa | that would be nice. | 21:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Looks like Spotlight. | 21:49 |
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| fysa | nice for quick/limited keyboard input situations | 21:49 |
| sp3000 | dunno, afaiui fx does a kind of double start internally on some extension stuff, maybe this one doesn't do that | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Spotlight + Quicksilver | 21:49 |
| fysa | yes | 21:49 |
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| sp3000 | but I'm guessing at random since I don't know crap about the fx startup em restart foo either :D | 21:50 |
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| jott | fysa: isn't this deskbar thingie written in python? | 21:51 |
| fysa | yes, you would probably have to pry gnome out of it kicking-and-screaming though. | 21:51 |
| jott | or build python gnome bindings :P | 21:52 |
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| Blafasel | Gnome Do is a nice app | 21:57 |
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| darkip | can anyone recommend the best linux GPS app for me to port? | 22:03 |
| inz | what kind of gps app are you looking for? | 22:04 |
| darkip | one including support for offline navigation | 22:05 |
| darkip | and use of decent maps | 22:05 |
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| darkip | any ideas? | 22:08 |
| darkip | I've already had a look at "navit" but the version i compiled didn't seem to work (even outside of scratchbox) | 22:08 |
| inz | free offline navigation would be cool | 22:09 |
| darkip | indeed | 22:09 |
| darkip | i mean i had navit running within scratchbox | 22:10 |
| darkip | pretty usable | 22:10 |
| darkip | but then i suddenly realised that it wouldn't find locations | 22:10 |
| darkip | which makes it pretty useless for navigation | 22:10 |
| darkip | it might be because i was compiling from their CVS | 22:10 |
| darkip | so i might have a try with a release and see what i get | 22:10 |
| inz | if someone hacked the navicore map format... | 22:10 |
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| |tbb| | is there a tool which could monitor changes to gconf (is this the name for nix registry?) entries | 22:13 |
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| darkip | back, stupid internet cutting out... | 22:14 |
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| lardman | not managed to look at gpsdriver yet, but does anyone know what the difference between libm_pic.a and libm.a is? | 22:15 |
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| ||cw | |tbb|: gconf is gnomes configuration system | 22:15 |
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| Tak | lardman: libm_pic is compiled with -fPIC ? | 22:15 |
| |tbb| | is there a possibilty to monitor changes ? | 22:16 |
| Tak | iirc you can register a callback for a given key | 22:17 |
| lardman | Tak: Ah, ok | 22:17 |
| lcuk | tbb, you mean like regmon but for *ux | 22:17 |
| |tbb| | lcuk, right | 22:17 |
| * lcuk misses all the sysinternals tools | 22:18 | |
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| |tbb| | install wine, lol | 22:18 |
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| lcuk | lol it wouldnt exactly work the same | 22:18 |
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| Tak | |tbb|: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gconf/stable/gconf-GConfClient.html#gconf-client-notify-add | 22:18 |
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| lardman | brb | 22:21 |
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| |tbb| | k, wanted to know if there is some basic tools which allready installed to do that | 22:21 |
| inz | tbb, the maemo version of gconf uses d-bus... :) | 22:22 |
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| blahdeblah | :'( My N800 won't charge. | 22:22 |
| darkip | dodgy charger? | 22:23 |
| blahdeblah | I left it plugged into the A/C adapter all night, came back this morning, and it was flat. | 22:23 |
| darkip | i've heard a few people have that problem... | 22:23 |
| blahdeblah | darkip: I'm about to check it with the multimeter, but i don't think so. | 22:23 |
| darkip | got another nokia charger which will fit it? | 22:23 |
| lcuk | my 810 goes from 100% charge in evening to dead when i get back from work | 22:23 |
| lcuk | it even tells me to unplug it to save power | 22:23 |
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| blahdeblah | darkip: My friend a few doors down does - i'll try it as soon as i get a chance. | 22:23 |
| lcuk | i have nothing running (bare desktop) no connects | 22:23 |
| lcuk | blah, was the plug swithced on at the wall? | 22:24 |
| |tbb| | ive got the same on my n800 till i found out the cable of the charger was broken | 22:24 |
| blahdeblah | This has happened to me once before, but i just removed it for a while and put it back in and it was fine. This time that didn't work. | 22:24 |
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| blahdeblah | |tbb|: Time to pull out the multimeter, i guess... | 22:24 |
| darkip | lol... | 22:24 |
| lcuk | blah, does it tell you its charging when you insert it | 22:24 |
| Veggen | My n810 discharges too quickly, now, too, I think. | 22:25 |
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| darkip | woah, idea | 22:25 |
| lcuk | i got back tonight and it was totally dead :( | 22:25 |
| darkip | would it be possible to port google earth for maemo? | 22:25 |
| blahdeblah | lcuk: No, i just gave the "feed me some electrons" picture | 22:25 |
| darkip | hmm | 22:25 |
| blahdeblah | However, i just went up to it now and it says charging! :-( | 22:25 |
| blahdeblah | Weird | 22:25 |
| darkip | lol | 22:25 |
| Veggen | darkip: probably not, isn't it wine-based on Linux? | 22:26 |
| blahdeblah | darkip: I'm not laughing | 22:26 |
| |tbb| | blah cable ? | 22:26 |
| blahdeblah | |tbb|: Sure sounds like it, doesn't it? | 22:26 |
| * lcuk spent hours charging his mobile yesterday before realising the usb at the other end was disconnected | 22:26 | |
| blahdeblah | Well, on another topic, does this have any relevance to maemo? http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2008-01-28.4605718236 | 22:26 |
| |tbb| | ive got exact the same issue, at night i charged it set up the alarm next day i was late cause battery wont charge ;) | 22:27 |
| Blafasel | Without reading the link I guess you talk about Nokia buying TT | 22:27 |
| blahdeblah | Blafasel: yep | 22:27 |
| Blafasel | There are quite some blog entries about this. Short answer: Not in the near future, it seems | 22:27 |
| Blafasel | Check ITT | 22:27 |
| blahdeblah | Cool | 22:27 |
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| fysa | http://tecnocode.co.uk/misc/totem-youtube.png | 22:27 |
| blahdeblah | I wonder if TT can run maemo web sites any better than Nokia can. | 22:28 |
| lcuk | anyone sussed how to get m.youtube.com working? | 22:28 |
| lcuk | blah, nokia run maemo sites perfectly well. they are all run from a single n810 running maemo :D | 22:29 |
| * blahdeblah still wants to rattle some cages on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1896 - any suggestions? It started affecting the official Nokia repositories the other day... | 22:29 | |
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| fysa | http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/10/16/using-youtubes-gdata-api-in-linux-desktop-applications | 22:32 |
| fysa | cool. | 22:32 |
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| lcuk | blahdeblah, is there anyway to manually enter the correct DNS server into hosts (dont know if it exists on maemo) and bypass akamai ? | 22:33 |
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| lcuk | dns entry* | 22:33 |
| blahdeblah | lcuk: I tried that | 22:35 |
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| blahdeblah | Someone here gave me an IP address that worked, and i manually overrode the whole domain on my local DNS server, but it didn't have the desired effect - i didn't have time to work out why. | 22:36 |
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| lcuk | doesnt each subdomain need its own entry in hosts | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | blahdeblah, did you ever try from another connection? | 22:37 |
| lcuk | ie, changing maemo.org isnt enough | 22:37 |
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| blahdeblah | lcuk: I changed the one that was giving me the 401 errors - repository.maemo.org | 22:37 |
| blahdeblah | GeneralAntilles: The only places i've been able to try from are with the same ISP i use at home. | 22:38 |
| lcuk | change your dns server to one in another country | 22:38 |
| lcuk | to a country which works | 22:38 |
| lcuk | fsk the lot basically | 22:39 |
| blahdeblah | lcuk: And which supports recursive queries? That could be hard to find. | 22:39 |
| blahdeblah | GeneralAntilles: I might be able to try from another location this morning, but they use 802.1x on their wifi network - does Maemo work with that? | 22:39 |
| * lcuk doesnt know how a dns server can be different, in the ones ive used it either worked or it didnt | 22:41 | |
| glass | some servers answer just certain queries if outside their network | 22:41 |
| lcuk | ahhhh (i just read as well) so if the server itself doesnt know the address if the client is outside the network the dns will just give up without asking its parent | 22:42 |
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| Blafasel | Hmm.. I have lots of trouble with Skype/Gizmo being "muted". Is that a known problem? | 22:44 |
| michele | there is always opendns, if you need one | 22:48 |
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| alterego | Not much good free software for the N80/Series 60 devices .. | 22:54 |
| Blafasel | Hrmpf.. No chat with the gf tonight. Both tools let me hear her, but not the other way 'round. Time to buy a headset, I guess. | 22:54 |
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| Blafasel | Hmm.. Are the sdk-vmware image guys around here? | 22:59 |
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| lcuk | blaf, whats up with it (not that i could help, but someone might) | 23:00 |
| Blafasel | lcuk: The netwrking doesn't work here and trying to fix it (running a dhcp client manually etc.) needs root privileges. No idea how to get those | 23:01 |
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| lcuk | oooer dunno, but i had a problem with vmware net on win here. i had disabled the windows end of the connection after installing vmware so nothing i did inside the box would help | 23:03 |
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| maddler | gret iGo BT keyboard works great both on N800 and N810 :) | 23:07 |
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| |tbb| | http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/28/skyfire-browser-for-windows-mobile-is-game-changing-does-flash/ | 23:12 |
| lcuk | Blafasel, have you tried using "sudo -s" to put yourself root for the session, its just appeared to work for me | 23:13 |
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| |tbb| | maddler: congrats, i would like to have it too | 23:15 |
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| xment | where to obtain latest builds of evince for os2008? | 23:19 |
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| Blafasel | lcuk: Got it, thanks. Reading the vala samples already (with quite some headache.. This is really new to me) | 23:36 |
| darkip | hmm, i think i've found the perfect candidate | 23:36 |
| darkip | gpsdrive looks good | 23:36 |
| darkip | and it was ported for the 770 so shouldn't be too much work... | 23:36 |
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| cesman | darkip: Maemo Mapper? | 23:40 |
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| ||cw | darkip: I don't think gpsdrive was ever fully ported | 23:41 |
| ||cw | maemo mapper is based on it though | 23:41 |
| darkip | hmm | 23:42 |
| darkip | but maemo mapper has no offline navigation | 23:42 |
| darkip | whereas gpsdrive does (I think) | 23:42 |
| ||cw | sure it does, you just have to load the map images first | 23:42 |
| ||cw | or do you mean route planning? | 23:42 |
| darkip | route planning | 23:43 |
| darkip | i'd class that under navigation, but i know what you mean | 23:43 |
| chuckroks | maemo-sdk was successful but couldn't update the local package DB. Can I ignore it? | 23:43 |
| maddler | |tbb|: paid less than 50E | 23:44 |
| maddler | |tbb|: not that expensive | 23:44 |
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| |tbb| | maybe i will pick one by time | 23:45 |
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| maddler | fyi -> http://www.mymemory.co.uk/memory/iGo/Stowaway/Ultra-Slim/Bluetooth/Keyboard | 23:50 |
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| fysa | http://griffith.berlios.de/pages/screenshots.php | 23:55 |
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