IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-01-23

czrlcuk_2, otherwise yes :-)00:00
czrlcuk_2, you'll probably want to use scp to copy the files over00:00
lcuk_2veggen, yes its got chinook dsks but i think my inexperience with linux in general is getting in the way.  im getting lost with systems within systems and where binaries end up and all kinds of crap00:00
p|no irb on ruby4maemo ?00:00
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lcuk_2sdks ^00:00
fysaor nfs?00:01
* lcuk_2 thinks he should find a local linux guru and peck his head00:01
* lcuk_2 will offer him beer00:01
fysawith a claw hammer?00:01
GeneralAntillesEat his brains. Gain his knowledge!00:01
Veggenlcuk: beer often helps.00:02
lcuk_2nahhh fysa - i just need to sit down with someone and get the env setup00:02
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lcuk_2once im there and i can get at stuff im fine but its just way OTT - i think i could do direct linux building now but scratchbox within linux within vmware is just yarghhhhhhhhhhhhhh00:03
Takp|: nope00:03
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lcuk_2anyway ill ponder that later00:03
lcuk_2cyas later guys00:03
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czrlcuk_2, if you're using debian/ubuntu, it's pretty easy to do "direct" building (without the vmware in between)00:14
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maddleroompa loompa...00:16
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pupnikoop vmware broke my shift key ;/  bbl00:29
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jacksteranyone know a good podcatcher other than canoly?00:55
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ph|bercanola2 ROCKS!00:55
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jacksterindeed, but other than canola00:56
lcuk_2czr, main system is running windows..daytime work depends upon it too much to not have it fully usable00:57
czrlcuk_2, ah, I see. so what's the problem then?00:57
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czr"Sorry, we are unable to process your request. Our system is experiencing some difficulties. Please try again later. ". awww.00:58
czrhow sad.00:58
czrone would think that HP would have some hw to spare. guess not.00:58
lcuk_2its just inexperience i think00:59
czrmine or theirs? :-)00:59
czrthey're used to me. I bitch about bugs in their hardware and other crap00:59
lcuk_2i prefer one step at a time, but getting used to linux+exclipse+scratchbox+maemo all at once has kindof fried my brain00:59
czrah, you meant linuxwindowsthing00:59
lcuk_2yer lol01:00
czrlcuk_2, have you taken a look at the training material?01:00
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czrit starts in very shallow waters, so to speak01:00
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lcuk_2i tried right at the start, but i dont think i was ready. it all just went over my head. ive had time to digest some stuff now so think if i restart it all i might actually get it together01:00
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* czr nods01:01
czrit assumes some experience with Linux and C01:01
czralthough the starting with maemo material should be quite generic01:01
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czrthere's also 'technology overview', but I haven't read it so can't say whether you should either :-)01:02
lcuk_2the c part is fine (if a little rusty) but not understanding how linux slotted together and then needing to jump that ont oa cross compilation rig as well just made it go gaga01:02
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lcuk_2also learning how to type would help01:02
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czrthe getting start material handles that pretty gracefully methinks01:02
czrit must be all the pink fur on your back, limiting your movement ;-)01:02
lcuk_2yer i am getting better at handling the shell i think01:03
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czrthe shell is your friend after all01:03
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lcuk_2yer, its not point and click...01:03
* lcuk_2 sobs01:03
czrit's for people who appreciate power over repetition01:04
* czr patpats lcuk_2 01:04
lcuk_2toolchains for the windows (full/pocket) devices havent changed much in years01:04
czrshell hasn't changed in unix either. for much longer than in windows I might add.01:05
czr(at least the basic stuff, and basic commands)01:05
lcuk_2there is just an overwhelming amount of - choice - in linux as to which path is best.  i will find my way as i have with python01:05
czrand the unix shell exist long past the time when MS decides to drop their poor excuse of a shell from their 4D desktop systems01:05
czrlcuk_2, indeed there is :-)01:05
czrlcuk_2, try to find people close to you (relatively) and ask them what to use. that way you'll know who to ask about the problems (or just use IRC)01:06
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czrI'd probably forgo the whole eclipse "experience" if I'd be you01:06
czralthough you'll probably want to torture yourself with a GUI environment, right?01:06
lcuk_2i mentioned that earlier, im gonna see whos knocking around here and grab some training :)01:06
* czr nods01:06
lcuk_2not at all, i yearn for a basic (within reason...) editor with a build now button01:07
czralso, this channel is pretty friendly if not always very active, feel free to ask01:07
lcuk_2i know that, its been a great resource so far :)01:07
czrbuild button = writing make on the command line and pressing enter.. :-)01:07
czr<jedi>You don't need the mouse in order to be productive</jedi>01:07
lcuk_2no, but the up arrow on 810 is a million miles away - i do editing in notepad here on windows and save back directly with SCP and run it under python01:08
lcuk_2its enough to get me comfortable without hassle01:08
lcuk_2its about the same effort as it was coding for my pocketpc01:09
lcuk_2only its faster...01:09
lcuk_2anyway, i think i will re-extract this vmware image and see how far i can get tonight01:10
lcuk_2thx for the boost, catch you later :)01:11
czrlater lcuk_201:12
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pupnikBaldur's Gate:  :D01:21
Xamuzkactually, I use eclipse to edit python01:22
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Xamuzkpupnik, damn, how did you do it? that game is great!01:23
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pupnikjust got it running 15 minutes ago01:23
jottsdl ftw :)01:23
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elbis baldur's gate open source, now?01:24
jottthere is a oss clone GemRB ...01:24
pupnikno, i bought the 4-game set for like 10 euro01:24
jottdata files are still not free i suppose01:25
pupnikyes, but they are incredibly cheap for the value01:25
elboh, so you're just using the data files from the game?01:25
elbwas the game engine reverse-engineered, or are its mechanics known?01:25
elb(the accomplishment is awesome, by the way)01:25
* elb reads the docs01:26
pupnikreverse engineered by a heroic team over 8 years01:26
Xamuzkit's just hard to put 4 CDs inside the N810... it's go sd!01:26
pupnikbg2 is about 2.3 GB on SD01:26
jottXamuzk: you could swap 1gb sds ;)01:26
XamuzkI quit my gaming days when I chose to use linux01:27
elbahh, I see, the baldur's gate engine is something like the infosys engine01:27
user_810xamuz... same here... and no remorse... :D01:27
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maddler_810doh... didnt realized...01:28
GeneralAntillesThat's what consoles are for. ;)01:30
GeneralAntillesStick with the last generation and everything's super-cheap, too!01:30
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elbGeneralAntilles: amen01:33
elbGeneralAntilles: I'm rocking out the used PS2 games for $5-10 each -- I never played them when they were new, so they're all new material to me ;-)01:34
GeneralAntillesMy problem is that I buy the consoles around release and don't buy games until they're in the $10 bin.01:34
lardmannight chaps01:34
pupnikway to go01:34
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pupnikcu lardman|gone01:34
GeneralAntillesI've got a release-day PS2 that I just started getting games for.01:34
GeneralAntillesPicked up the GTA series for $12.99 from Best Buy. :D01:34
elbI bought the PS2 after the PS3 came out when it dropped to like $10001:34
GeneralAntillesThough I admit I get a lot of play out of my 360 and Wii.01:35
elbyeah, I picked up GTA:VC for like $4 the other day at Game Stop01:35
elbI'm too cheap for the new consoles01:35
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elbbut I completely agree with the sentiment ... computer games just aren't worth the headache01:35
elbWindows, drivers, etc.01:35
elbI've never had to upgrade DirectX to get my GameCube or PS2 working ;-)01:35
GeneralAntillesI'm something of a Mac "gamer".01:35
GeneralAntillesLot of good shareware and freeware stuff out there.01:36
elbthat said ... StarCraft01:36
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GeneralAntilles12 years old and still going strong!01:36
johnxGeneralAntilles, Yeah, and PhotoShop is aaaawesome :D01:36
* maddler_810 keeps playing with his NDS :D01:36
GeneralAntillesAlways loved the Ambrosias SW stuff.01:36
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Always loved the Ambrosia SW stuff.01:37
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pupnikintro sequence working01:38
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Xamuzkactually, the best game ever for me is Total Anihillation01:39
GeneralAntillesHeck, yeah, |R! :D01:39
pupnikdamn this is so cool01:39
GeneralAntillesI miss Avara.01:40
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Xamuzkthe old adventures were also cool01:41
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b0unc3is there any way to set a transparent background on a GtkTextView ?02:01
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pupnikhey NeoStrider02:06
pupnikthis  Baldur's Gate:  :D02:06
hugolppupnik:  I want that02:06
pupnikyeah i hope somebody (not me) makes it work well02:08
pupnikooh Fn+ key working in GemRB!02:08
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magicrobotmonkeywhat do you guys use to convert videos for n810 on ubuntu?02:09
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pupniki use mencoder or 770-encode.pl02:09
magicrobotmonkeyk02:10 iirc02:10
GeneralAntillesMostly mediaserv, actually.02:11
magicrobotmonkeywow that looks good02:11
GeneralAntillesHardly ever pre-encode.02:11
magicrobotmonkeyive been looking for something like that for a while02:11
magicrobotmonkeybut i have to pre-encode for the bus02:11
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GeneralAntilles3g + a big upstream pipe at home. :D02:12
GeneralAntillesWell, 3g or wifi at uni.02:12
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magicrobotmonkeywonder how evdo would handle it, but my upstream pipe's far too small02:13
GeneralAntilles~1200Kbps for high-quality02:13
GeneralAntillesYou could get away with as low as ~500Kbps total for OK quality.02:13
magicrobotmonkeyill have to hit a bandwidth test next time im on with the phone02:13
GeneralAntillesI think evdo is kinda slow02:14
GeneralAntillesmaybe 20KB/sec02:14
magicrobotmonkeyyea its not great02:14
magicrobotmonkeyi can plan ahead a little though02:14
GeneralAntillesPre-encoding isn't particularly hard.02:14
GeneralAntillesSet up a script to handle the encoding and copying via scp.02:14
magicrobotmonkeyyea i just have to know what im gonna want to watc...02:14
GeneralAntillesUp the Kbps of the "best" preset to around 1000Kbps for better quality.02:15
GeneralAntillesJaffa went a little conservative with it.02:15
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lcuk_2in the maemovmware image i have managed to get x86 samples compiled and running in xephyr.  i have changed the target to armel and now cannot get xephyr to run.  is this normal or should i be able to still test inside the vmware, or are the applications that i build now totally arm onmly binaries and must run on the devices itself?02:19
lcuk_2(or have i messed up again...)02:19
pupnikyou should be able to leave xephyr running regardless of your active target02:20
pupnikit's essentially a 'remote' X server02:21
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lcuk_2in the instructions they told me to run " stop", change the target and then re-run " start" which i have done.  i thought i did something wrong when i got error messages so closed everything down.  hence having trouble re-opening.  i will put the errors in pastebin if you could take a quick shuftie please02:22
pupnikit makes sense that the should be stopped before switching02:23
pupnikbut is not xephyr02:23
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skiburHeath Ledger died!02:26
lcuk_2when i open the scratchbox environment from the vmware image i get a shell window and empty xephyr window.  when i followed instructions the first time (with x86 target) i got a working maemo desktop within zep.  once i changed the target and did the same errors came02:26
lcuk_2pupnik, i gather xephyr is the an emulated device host02:27
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johnxlcuk_2, xephyr is just an X server02:28
lcuk_2i was expecting it to just pop back into maemo desktop once i changed targets so now its not my run of things going smoothly has broken..02:28
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magicrobotmonkeywow mediaserv is amazing!02:30
kaiewhen I connect the n810 to linux via usb cable, i get kernel errors in dmesg. it complains it attempts to access sectors beyond the end of the device02:30
kaiedoes this indicate the original filesystem that came on the internal 2gb memory card is wrong?02:30
GeneralAntillesYeah, I think  reformat will fix it.02:31
lcuk_2reformat of 810 2GB internal will lose maps02:31
GeneralAntillesEvidently it was an issue that was found in the pre-production units but never actually fully fixed for the shipping ones.02:31
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, you can redownload them.02:31
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kaieok thanks02:31
lcuk_2phew - i wondered about that, they arent in the flash image02:31
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lcuk_2its ok, i *think* i have it02:32
kaiewell, and I can copy the files to another disk before I reformat...02:33
GeneralAntillesGawd, imagine everybody downloading a 2GB firmware image with the server the way it was over the holidays. <_<02:33
GeneralAntillesOr do that, kaie.02:33
kaiewhat tool should I use to reformat? mkfs.vfat probably? /me goes to look if that is installed on the n81002:33
GeneralAntillesYou can probably just format from the filemanager.02:33
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lcuk_2when on the armel target " start" fails but when i swithc back it works.  i will test in a minute but i believe that the exes built in the shell should just work on the device.02:34
pupniki'll try it here02:35
lcuk_2but that when targetting the armel i cannot test02:35
lcuk_2^in the vmware02:35
pupnikyes kale02:35
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* lcuk_2 is glad there are people around to sound things off on :)02:37
pupnikam starting vmware, one minute pls kc02:38
lcuk_2okies, ive managed to wrestle my device off the missus anway02:38
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lcuk_2:O holy poo - i just nearly used a lit cig as my stylus.  that will teach me for keeping it in my mouth02:39
rene4jazzcan I use gtk 2.10 on n770?02:40
rene4jazzalso libcairo?02:40
pupniki think so02:40
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rene4jazzbut, what about the floating point aritmetic that libcairo uses?02:41
pupniki can't recreate that problem lcuk_2 .  for what it's worth, i never use the x86 scratchbox target at all02:41
rene4jazzit's a special port of libcairo for embeded devices?02:41
lcuk_2pup, i dont think its a problem. whats an easy place to put exe files for my testing?02:42
lcuk_2/usr/bin ?02:43
pupniki usually scp them to /home/user/<program>02:43
pupnikthen run them from there02:43
kbsinghthere are some scary people in the mailing-list02:43
* pupnik raises hand02:43
lcuk_2:) /home/user/liq02:43
pupnik  rene4jazz check that02:43
kbsinghsomeone wants to run spamassassin on a n81002:43
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rene4jazztake a look to "m_cairo_ctx->arc(randx, randy, rands, 0.0, 2.0 * M_PI);"02:46
rene4jazzthere is floating type value02:46
rene4jazzso?, n8xx can work with floats.....and what about n770?02:47
rene4jazzdoes sardine with the gtk 2.10 work on n770? no degradation at all?02:48
kaieGeneralAntilles, I don't see a format command in gui filemanager02:48
kaiebut mkfs.vfat is install02:48
GeneralAntillesIt's in the menu02:48
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pupnikrene4jazz: latest distro for 770 is os2007he, which uses 'bora' as its base, so it's not the newest version02:48
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lcuk_2\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ w00000t and all that jazz02:49
pupnikit can do floats02:49
kaieGeneralAntilles, ok found it, but it's grayed out... maybe I need to stop swap and/or reboot...02:49
pupnikrestarted scratchbox lcuk_2 ?02:49
* lcuk_2 collapses on the floor02:49
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GeneralAntillesYeah, gotta kill VM.02:49
lcuk_2no pup, when the dev target is set to armel it wont run but i dont care, once i rebuilt the exe and copied over it runs02:50
rene4jazzpupnik: does 'bora' uses gtk 2.10?02:50
GeneralAntillesOnly Chinook, rene4jazz.02:50
lcuk_2thats enough for right now, ive had success :)02:51
lcuk_2exactly 1 month since i got the device...02:51
GeneralAntillesIf you were in high-school you could celebrate an anniversary. :P02:52
rene4jazzdoes the n8xx hardware handle the floating point aritmetic, or is emulated?02:52
lcuk_2im young at heart - ill go and crack open a beer02:52
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NeoStriderhey folks02:54
alteregoYou're too young to drink.!02:54
alteregoEven if it's just yer heart.02:54
NeoStridercheck out my new video :
NeoStridernobody is too young to drink02:54
NeoStridereven babies drink some soft kind of Moloko =-)02:54
lcuk_2vodka on top02:55
NeoStrider(moloko -> clockwork orange)02:55
alteregoNice framerate ..02:55
NeoStrideralmost the same @ 77002:55
lcuk_2one final question for the night.  vmware eclipse: i cannot view any of the header files.  clicking open definition on a header says "could not find include file 'hildon/hildon-program.h' on include paths" where do i find them (so i can add the path..)02:58
johnxlcuk_2, find / -name hildon-program.h inside scratchbox :)03:00
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johnxor even find /usr -name blah03:00
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lcuk_2thx john, its wildly searching now, ive been scratching my head about that..03:01
johnxactually, you can pretty much assume that all your headers (bleh.h) are in /usr/include03:01
johnxI just gave you the shotgun approach03:01
alteregoHopefully this server migration will go as planned.03:02
alteregoI'm sick of all the downtime I'm getting from my current providers >:(03:02
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johnxrene4jazz, the N8x0 hardware can do floating point, but depending on how libraries/apps are compiled it may or may not be used03:04
lcuk_2its hit 4 versions (1 for each target), for example: /targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/usr/include/hildon-1/hildon/hildon-program.h   does that imply that "hildon-1" is configured as an additional include path (ontop of usr/include) or does the compiler just look recursively?03:04
alteregoI don't think VPF is enabled in default compilation. I think you'll have to set the flag explicitly during build time.03:05
alteregoI wonder if we start a donation pot, whether we could get the funds together to buy the rights to distribute the drivers for the 3D graphics adapter.03:05
GeneralAntillesDonating pot?03:06
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alteregoYeah, if we all put in a bit of cash and try and buy it from imagination03:06
alteregoKind of like how Blender got OS03:06
johnxalterego, nah. I want to buy the closed source maemo stuff from Nokia first :/03:06
johnxto avoid the 770 situation happening next year03:07
alteregoMost of the closed source stuff is pointless and can be replaced pretty easily :P03:07
lcuk_2alter i dont think its funds we need.  we need to activate the powervr and then code up something to copy the (640*480 max) rendered screen from within the 2420 onto the lcd controller03:07
alteregojohnx, the N8x0 devices will be updated until 2010.03:07
johnxand I could see them lasting much longer than that in terms of hardware03:08
alteregoYou have to remember that the N810, which has just been released isn't going to go out of date in a year. Which means the N800 will not either.03:08
johnxI still don't like being beholden to the whim of a single company03:08
alteregoN8x0's will probably get supported 2010 releases aswell ..03:08
alteregoYou're not.03:08
johnxand I intend it to stay that way. :)03:09
alteregoYou can work on your own OS for it if you like. The platform is pretty open really ..03:09
johnxit's mostly open03:09
alteregoExcept the 3D drivers ..03:09
johnxit's better than the zaurus situation was at any rate03:09
johnxdo we even know if the 3D chip will help that much?03:09
alteregoSure, for 3D.03:10
johnxoh also, epiphany-webkit runs *great* on an N800 under Debian :)03:10
lcuk_2it will change the playing field john.  we move from forcing 3d rendering as software into a problem of moving a finished image from one internal framebuffer to another display framebuffer03:10
pupniktotally forgot what epiphany is03:10
johnxalterego, of course03:11
johnxpupnik, web browser :)03:11
alteregoCool, I really hope armel is adopted fully by debian.03:11
alteregoMaybe by 2010 ;)03:11
johnxalterego, it will be03:11
johnx90% of packages build03:11
johnxs/build/are built03:11
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johnxand it's on track for the next stable release AFAIK03:11
johnxdebian ARMEL is here to the debian "long term" :D03:12
alteregoAh, in 2010 :D03:12
johnxwhatever. :P no one uses stable anyways03:12
alteregoNaturally, will it replace 'arm' though?03:12
* alterego does.03:12
johnxyou already use packages that debian marks "unstable" on your tablet03:13
johnxit won't replace ARM because ARM still exists to support the StrongARM (armv4)03:13
alteregoBut maemo isn't strictly debian :P03:13
johnxbut once there are no more users for arm they'll drop it in favor of armel03:13
alteregoThey should rename it armv4 then ..03:13
johnxwell, it's really arm OABI03:14
rene4jazzdoes any one have a link to install debian on the tablets?03:14
johnxrene4jazz, ahahaha03:14
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jottjohnx: why not? *gg*03:14
johnxI'll post a writeup later today03:14
alteregoIt's not much effort really.03:15
johnxactually, what would be an appropriate wiki to put it on?03:15
alteregoI'm presuming you can use debootstrap and the unofficial armel repository.03:15
rene4jazzI'm thinking maybe DSL will fit well on the tablet hardware03:15
johnxrene4jazz, if you want a debian chroot it is incredibly simple03:15
johnxrene4jazz, is DSL compiled for ARM?03:15
rene4jazzno yet, but I'm looking for info03:16
johnxif you want to boot debian it's a little more in depth03:16
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alteregoSure, but basically you use debootstrap to create the rootfs? Then you hack the initfs03:16
rene4jazzbut the mayor problem I think is related to input (virtual keyboard, hand writing recog, etc)03:17
alteregorene4jazz, not on the N810 ;)03:17
alteregoOr with a USB HID keyboard.03:17
rene4jazzhaha, write03:17
rene4jazzI'm a n770 user :D03:17
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johnxalterego, unless you have a different kernel than the included one you don't get console on framebuffer :P03:17
alteregoAre you sure you can't just change the boot parameters?03:18
johnxalterego, I have no idea honestly03:19
alteregoAh, worth looking into then ;)03:19
johnxbut console on framebuffer isn't in their kernel config03:19
johnxand enabling it gets me nothing03:19
lcuk_2ive seen people anting to view the boot commands but noone has managed it03:19
rene4jazzbut GPE also has an available virtual keyboard03:19
johnxrene4jazz, that's what I intend to use03:19
alteregoShould be in the fiasco image somewhere.03:19
johnxI'm having issues writing to /dev/fb0 actually03:19
rene4jazzjohnx: do you have any posts on that_03:20
johnxrene4jazz, no03:20
johnxI think a wiki is a better medium for this03:20
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johnxso how about someone suggests a wiki to put the writeup on?03:20
johnxis more appropriate or internettablettalk?03:21
rene4jazzI think that the memory consuption of the OS is to much, just after booting it uses half of ram03:21
GeneralAntillesjohnx, they both seem a bit like cess-pools. :P03:22
johnxrene4jazz, how much of that is "cached"03:22
alteregoGeneralAntilles, ;)03:22
johnxGeneralAntilles, so suggest a better one!03:22
johnxI'm not hosting this on my personal site03:22
alteregoI think a blog post is fine.03:22 :)03:22
johnxthe bandwidth will kill me03:22
GeneralAntillesI'd say ITT has more momentum behinds its improvement03:22
rene4jazzI remember that I used a pentium 1 133Mhz with 32MB of ram  AND Win98SE03:22
GeneralAntillesbut that could be just because I've been doing a lot of cheerleading for it recently.03:22
johnxjott, that actually seems like a good idea03:23
johnxpost on and link to it on the forums03:23
johnxa thread is the opposite of helpful to anyone who shows up late03:23
alteregoYeah ..03:23
johnxI want to avoid answering the same question a thousand times if possible03:24
jottyeah .. that's why i don't like forums ;)03:24
johnxleaning towards wiki.debian03:24
rene4jazzWell, I have the cpu/memory tray app on OS 2007 HE and I think it shows memory used, cached and free, the first is green, the second in darker green and the las black03:24
johnxrene4jazz, what does "free" say though?03:24
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, why not all three?03:25
rene4jazzhalf of available memory03:25
johnxrene4jazz, well that kinda sucks03:25
johnxno wonder debian feels so snappy03:26
rene4jazzyea, it is03:26
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johnxGeneralAntilles, I want a *definitive* location for this, where people will *update* it and not have it turn into 30 different "howtos"03:26
GeneralAntillesFine, fine.03:27
GeneralAntillesAt least stick a link to it on the other two. :P03:27
johnxof course!03:27
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rene4jazzI have looking for some details on that, and in the available docs (presentation) it seems to be a very good deal of decisions on maemo arch to reduce memory footprint.03:29
johnxrene4jazz, actually, you're on a 770, right?03:30
johnxso it's only using 32MB of RAM?03:30
johnxthat's actually pretty good03:30
rene4jazzit has 64MB of ram (DDR)03:30
rene4jazzI think that is to much03:30
johnxI don't see where you'd save much memory though03:31
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johnxrene4jazz, though if you're not really attached to hildon/maemo you could look at the OpenEmbedded project03:33
johnxthey have a kernel and possibly an xserver for the 77003:34
|tbb|could anyone help me with dbus-send and setting presence03:36
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bmidgleyjohnx: how good is power management using debian on 770/n800?03:41
johnxbmidgley, unavailable as of right now03:42
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johnxscreen is set to full brightness, CPU is probably running at 400MHz the whole time03:42
johnxhmm, actually CPU scaling seems to work03:42
bmidgleyso you keep it plugged in :)03:42
johnxon batteries it lasts maybe an hour or two under debian03:43
bmidgleythat sounds like my neo197303:43
jottyou could use the dsmetest tool in the initfs chroot to change brightness without big effort03:43
johnxjott, good to know. I haven't even gotten that far yet :D03:43
johnxGeneralAntilles, any idea on why the itt wiki won't keeps logging me out?03:44
GeneralAntillesFix yer cookies?03:44
johnxthe forum logs me in with cookies automagically03:44
jotteat the cookie and you will be forgotten! :)03:44
johnxI'll try on a different browser03:44
* GeneralAntilles only has cake right now.03:45
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johnxGeneralAntilles, good call. It works under opera03:48
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pupniki hope someone figures out how to regrow brain cells before too long04:03
GeneralAntillesAmen to that.04:05
|tbb|yeah, got it04:05
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|tbb|this was cost 2 hours of sleep, but i hope i could sleep better now04:07
|tbb|night all04:07
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johnx'night |tbb|04:09
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alteregoI don't know whether it's the transflective display. but the N810 is a lot easier on the eyes in the dark when set to it's lowest setting.04:12
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GeneralAntillesDefault software, alterego?04:14
lcuk_2alter, its all fun and games until the 810 ambient sensor picks up an odd bit of light and decides your screen needs adjusting.04:15
pupnikargh, vmplayer plus this this scratchbox vm keeps nuking x11's host caps and shift keys04:15
* lcuk_2 has a sticker over his to keep brightness as set04:15
pupniki mean ctrl and shift04:15
GeneralAntillesThe brightness of the N800 is way off under OS2008.04:15
alteregolcuk_2, use yer thumb :P04:15
GeneralAntillesDoesn't get as dark as the N81004:15
GeneralAntillesTry this for your N800:
alteregoYeah, no light sensor.04:16
lcuk_2no alter, i hold it with my right hand...04:16
GeneralAntillesand your N810, too.04:16
alteregoOh my god, you're not one of _those_ are you lcuk_2 ? :)04:16
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alteregoWell, I've just finished setting up my two dedicated hosts.04:17
* lcuk_2 has a "well done" red sticker with a smiley frog on it this week04:17
alteregoNow I need to setup several virtual environments for various server tasks .. Two DNS, DB, SVN, MX and VHosting ..04:18
lcuk_2GeneralAntilles, thats rm's proggy aint it?04:18
GeneralAntillesAll packaged up and purty.04:18
alteregoIt's 2am and I'm knackered .. :(04:18
lcuk_2ill try it then again now04:18
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alteregoRight, I'm gonna go to bed and do some reading up on OpenVZ. G'night folks.04:22
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lcuk_2nite alter :) thx04:22
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petergunnis there a vncserver available for maemo? (not X11vnc)04:22
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petergunnI want to create a second larger display04:24
petergunnthats only visible via vncviewer04:24
petergunnI think X11vnc only works with real X displays04:25
johnxis there a VNC server for Linux that isn't backed by an XServer?04:26
pupnikwhat kind of programs would run on it04:26
johnxmaybe you could get xvfb and export it with a vncserver04:26
jottvncserver can run a virtual xserver without multiplexing...04:26
johnxjott, did not know that. cool!04:27
petergunnyeah - i want to host a 1024x768 KDE desktop on my n80004:27
petergunnwould be easy if I could find a regular vncserver binary04:28
petergunntried to compile in scratchbox but no luck04:28
johnxpetergunn, with mud builder?04:28
petergunnnever tried mud builder04:29
* petergunn goes googling04:29
johnxit's really, really nice for taking debian source packages and automatically handling the dependencies04:30
* petergunn thinks he should have started with the debian source package :-)04:30
pupniki could not get friendly with mud-builder04:31
johnxpupnik, really?04:31
johnxit's kind of hit or miss but it's so easy it's always worth a shot04:31
petergunnno time - have to try again when I get a break04:32
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pupnikmuhaha 800x480 mode working04:42
jottbg2 or what? :)04:43
jottand a right click solution?! ;)04:43
pupnikwell i think it might be drawing 800x600 actually with portions offscreen04:44
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pupniksteady 19-26 fps in 640x48004:52
jottwow.. even with heavy fights?!04:52
pupniki haven't been able to pick up a weapon yet04:53
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pupnikok just figured that out ;0 - one doesnt drag them but instead taps to pick up and taps to put down04:54
jottto the battlefield!04:55
darxhi guys, can i overclock my n800 beyond 400mhz? the flash performance (or the lack thereof) is annoying04:55
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pupniklockpicking/traps seems broken04:57
pupnikthe canonical sbemail runs nicely04:58
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johnxhere's a writeup of what I needed to do to make Debian work:
johnxI still need to add a FAQ section05:44
johnxand if someone offers me hosting I'll put up a .tar.gz of my rootfs, obviating the need to follow 99% of the instructions05:45
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johnxstill adding changes to it05:55
johnxThen I guess I'll link it on ITT and see how many people find a way to brick their tablets in the first hour05:56
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proteousjohnx, how bit is the tar.gz06:01
proteouser, big06:01
johnxI don't have one yet06:02
johnxI could probably keep it under 500MB, but that's all I'm promising06:02
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johnxthere are definitely reasons Nokia knocked so much stuff off of traditional debian06:04
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proteousI installed debian on a 486 laptop with 7.5 megs or ram once06:05
johnxI believe it06:05
proteousdpkg took about 4 hours to run06:06
johnxand actually, debian on this is really rather snappy06:06
johnxwhen you get right down to it the IO and amount of RAM are just as important as CPU speed in terms of perceived reponsiveness06:06
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oil_johnx: your wiki misses one important issue06:14
johnxoil_, hmm?06:15
oil_johnx: the section 0 - Why ;)06:15
johnxsection 0?06:15
oil_section 0: Why do we want to run debian on N810 :)06:15
johnxI guess I should put that up06:16
oil_anyway. good reason can always be 'because we can'06:16
johnxyou're right, otherwise I'll be explaining it on ITT and #maemo all day :)06:16
proteousso why did you install debian on your 810?06:16
johnxthe reason is because we can take all of Debian's 10,000 packages06:17
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johnxand once the rest of the hildon stuff gets into debian proper we can run our ITOS stuff as well06:17
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johnxplus, I prefer debian over the IT200xOS layout. I like having man pages, not having to worry so much about watchdog and reboot loops, etc, etc06:19
proteousgive me a terminal and a internet connection and I'm fine :P06:20
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johnxthere, added a "Why?" section06:33
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fysanot to mention -- cron06:41
fysareal, glorious cron that runs my life06:41
johnxthat would be a little disturbing actually06:42
fysaecho 6 * * * fysa /usr/local/bin/eat06:42
fysa>> ..06:42
fysawell.  think of it this way.06:42
fysanow I can have my device work the way I want it to work, given the environment I'm in based on time of day.06:43
johnxI agree with that06:43
johnxI just try not to let my computer swallow too much of my mind06:44
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fysayou know..06:44
fysaif you carried it around the house with you, could you determine roughly what room you were in by packet timing?06:45
fysacan you 'fingerprint' a room like that?06:45
johnxit would work best with two (or more) sources06:45
fysabecause then..06:45
fysascrew cron for bedtime music/clock screensaver06:45
fysaif it knows that I'm in the bedroom (I do usually read in bed a bit before sleeping), it can launch/sync an RSS reader06:46
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fysaor media player with whatever the latest is via mediaserv06:46
johnxI think that would be mroe annoying than useful06:47
fysain the office, switch to pidgin/email06:47
fysaI'm slightly demented, you see.06:47
johnxbut if it detected me walking towards the door and did one last music sync before I left for the day, that would be awesome06:47
fysaI work from a home office.06:47
fysaright.  just simple 'entering/exiting' would be nice.06:47
fysatrigger voice command06:48
fysain HTPC06:48
fysathat asks if I want to hear my new voicemail/mail06:48
johnxeasy enough to do with wpa_supplicant roaming06:48
fysaor missed IMs06:48
johnxto at least act different on different APs06:48
fysawait.  does KDE work?06:48
johnxI don't see why it wouldn't06:49
johnxwith enough swap06:49
fysawhat are you using build in?06:49
fysadebian-armel with qemu or something?06:49
fysaor cross?06:50
johnxdebian-armel in qemu06:50
johnxthough I haven't had to build anything since installing debian06:50
johnxit's all been right there06:50
johnxor I've repacked it from IT2008OS06:50
fysaare you looking for a place to host it temporarily?06:50
oil_johnx: good work. you are starting a new life for tablets :)06:51
johnxoil_, thanks06:51
johnxwait until it bricks yours or sets it on fire :)06:51
johnxfysa, yeah, though actually for this large a file a bittorrent might be best06:51
oil_hohoh, I'm old enought to wait for an while.. so that there is no more complaints of bricked devices ;)06:52
fysaIf you upload it to my server, I'll seed it like crazy.06:52
johnxfysa, sounds like a deal. :D06:52
fysa11 megabytes/sec06:52
johnxI'll seed from here too06:52
johnxI'll need to backup my current FS and then redo it so it's nice and clean and small06:53
johnxand doesn't have quite as many of my ugly hacks left all over the place06:53
fysaI lurk here 24/7, so just send me a message when you have it ready -- then make a .torrent of the same and stick it on thepiratebay or something.  I can do this if you like.  I'll then grab the .torrent off thepiratebay and seed with whatever you send to me.06:53
johnxfysa, awesome06:54
johnxthanks a lot!06:54
johnxoil_, it actually *shouldn't* brick anything. It just gets mounted by initfs and then pivot_root'ed06:54
fysajust happy to help.  If I feel kinky, I might even stick it on a direct download for people in this channel for a day or two.06:54
johnxtake out the SD card and it goes away06:54
oil_johnx: actually I do need to work with the existing os.06:55
fysawe might have hildon soon..06:55
johnxoil_, that's fine because the only way to set it up is dual boot06:55
johnxtake out the SD card and it all goes away06:55
johnxthe worst situation I had was cleared by pulling the battery and rebooting06:56
fysaCan it be in either slot?06:56
oil_johnx: ah, ok. then I might give it a try. but a bit later anyway.06:56
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johnxsure, no rush :)06:56
johnxfysa, yeah.06:56
johnxany device supported by fanoush's initfs dualboot06:57
fysaand you get a mouse pointer?06:57
johnxwhether you want it or not :P06:57
fysathis really sounds perfect for a bt mouse/keyboard mode.06:57
fysaI can handle smaller widgets (more real estate) with a mouse. ;)06:57
fysaanyone make a bluetooth ring mouse?06:58
johnxheh...DIY project with a wiimote :D06:59
johnxthat would be awesome06:59
fysaI tried..06:59
fysabut the drivers weren't ready.06:59
johnxthey're better now I think06:59
fysaI mean -- the pywii package for maemo.06:59
fysabut with debian, that's different.06:59
fysaI use a wiimote to control the HTPC right now07:00
fysain Linux..07:00
fysaworks reasonably well.07:00
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johnxvery cool07:00
fysawhich kernel are you using?07:01
johnxthe stock Nokia one07:01
johnxanything should work07:01
johnxall the hard work is done before debian gets started07:01
fysais there any reasonable way or reason to get around that right now?07:01
johnxthe Nokia kernel?07:02
fysai.e. proprietary necessities?07:02
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johnxwe're probably locked into Nokia's stuff until someone smarter than me hacks around it07:02
fysaThis is what I need.07:03
fysaNot a touchscreen or stylist.07:03
johnxthat's pretty neat07:03
fysafucking brilliant.07:03
fysathey use five microphones to pick up the noise of movement in a specific direction.07:04
fysawell, the volume.07:04
fysakinetic scrolling ;)07:05
johnxI have to admit that is a pretty original idea07:05
fysaincredibly simple.07:05
johnxMaybe I'll hold off on starting a thread on ITT until I have a tarball for them...07:07
fysathink you will have it before the weekend?07:08
fysa(no rush) I'll make sure to keep an eye out.07:08
johnxI should have it in a couples hours07:08
fysaDo you have a local FTP/HTTP server available, or do you need me to put one together for the transfer?07:09
johnxI can put it up on my personal webpage,07:10
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johnxI only have 5GB a month on that site, but it's fine for a one off thing07:10
fysawell, if you're using your upstream anyway, may as well send it here07:11
fysano problem -- one sec07:11
johnxalright, I'll backup my current debian setup and roll a fresh install07:14
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niitervAnyone know how long is the n800 tablet going to have patches and OS upgrades? I've wanted to get one but heard that the n770s support was stopped after 1.5 years so was worryed what's going to happen with the n800.07:18
johnxThe N800/N810 should be supported until at least the next software release "Diablo"07:20
johnxrather they will have a supported version of the next major release07:20
johnxNokia says they'll provide details for the major release after next closer to when it happens07:21
niitervSo roughly how long do you think there will be support? After that I hope a hackers version will come out.07:22
Tama^2When is 'diablo' coming out?07:22
johnxI have no idea about anything else07:23
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Tama^2.and how official is this info? :)07:23
johnxhere's where I found that info:
proteousthe n800 is a lot more similar to the n810 then the 770 is to the n80007:23
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proteousso keeping the n800 up to date with the n810 is pretty easy07:23
czryes. there's only a difference of 10, compared to 30.07:24
penguinba810 is way better though07:24
niitervjohnx I just wouldn't want to buy the n800 and get only another 1 or so of support ;P07:24
johnxniiterv, I know the feeling07:24
niiterv1 year*07:24
czrI'd imagine the N800 will be supported for as long as N81007:24
niitervthats hope =)07:25
Tama^2they are basically the same machine07:25
johnxthat's also why I'm working on Debian for the N800 :D07:25
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czrhowever, when the next major release is out, they _might_ drop N800. although I don't see any good reasons of doing so, but I'm not a Nokii.07:25
pb-awayi am writing from n810 in kde right now07:26
niitervand the n810 just came out so I guess 1.5-2 years of support07:26
pb-awayits nice ;)07:26
niitervI'm thinking about getting the n800 since there is a $170 difference.07:27
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johnxniiterv, yeah, the N800 is an incredible deal right now07:28
niitervI hear that there is a hackers version OS for the n770 so I guess that in 2 years or so when the support ends there should be a hackers version for the n80007:29
oil_what are the prices currently for N800 and N810 ?07:29
niitervoil_ n800 =$228 n810$400+07:29
johnxsomething like $200-$250 for the N800, and $380-$48007:29
oil_niiterv: thanks.07:29
johnxfor the N81007:29
johnxhopefully by the time the N8x0 stuff is End-of-Lifed by Nokia the community will be in a good situation to continue support07:30
oil_I personally started to _use_ tablet when I got n810.. the keyboard does the trick for me.07:30
niitervjohnx: Where'd you see an n800 for $200? Lowest I've seen is on amazon for $22807:30 was $200 for a while on I think07:31
johnxbut that was a while ago07:31
niitervLemmo look07:31
oil_for me it was great to use for example irc and gtalk chat while on the airport.. the damn 2 hours of waiting goes much faster now.07:31
johnxI bought mine in April so I haven't been keeping track much07:31
johnxyeah, one day I'll get an N81007:32
niitervjohnx n800 @ is $22807:32
johnxah, so the price is back up07:32
niitervSo you think it's still worth getting the n800 in the condition it's in?07:33
johnxIt all depends on how much you care about the keyboard07:33
Tama^2I got my n800 3 weeks ago07:33
niitervTama^2 like it?07:33
Tama^2(I use a BT keyboard with it)07:33
proteousI use ssh a lot so my upgrade from my 770 is going to be a n81007:34
oil_once I went to see the bt keyboards, but those things were damn expensive.. but naturally if you already have one. then it's a good deal.07:34
Tama^2yes, I think > storage space and lower price is preferable to keyboard and transriflective screen for me07:34
proteousssh + screen + mutt + irssi FTW07:35
johnxproteous, I have a zaurus for that anyways :P07:35
niitervIs it possible to still type with the virtual keyboard on n800 with the pen? I mean I'd like to chat on the n800 without the need for a bt keyboard.07:35
proteousthe screen on that is not as nice07:36
johnxniiterv, thumb typing on the screen is not that bad07:36
proteousyeah, you can, it's just a bit slow07:36
oil_also using maemo-mapper with n810 was suprising good thing. it was able to get me back home in this big city I do not really know very well.07:36
johnxchatting is possible if you get good at it07:36
proteousI've gotten pretty fast with the stylus but it's still sorta annoying07:36
johnxthe one thing the onscreen keyboard will not be fun for is the terminal07:36
proteousI wish it was more like the iphone keyboard, doesn't obscure the whole screen07:37
niitervI totally *love* the n810 but dont have the money for it so I hope the n800 will work.07:37
johnxniiterv, it's a great device and tons and tons of cheap storage is definitely an advantage07:38
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niitervOkey what about the battery life for the n800? I mean how long will it last under irc chat etc.07:39
niitervI hear 3-6 hours07:40
johnxthat seems reasonable07:40
Tester_niiterv: irc chat on the n800 is kinda painful (with the on-screen keyboard).. with a bt keyboard is quite doable.... I'd say 4-5h of battery life07:40
johnxalso, I didn't really realize you meant IRC...I thought you were talking about maybe IM with one person07:40
johnxIRC moves too fast07:40
johnxyou'd have your full screen keyboard up desperately pecking out letters while messages scroll past without you seeing them07:41
niitervI mean if I can't do irc and stuff I dont see the point of getting one.07:41
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Tester_johnx: with one of those nice foldable bluetooth keyboards, it should be doable07:42
Tama^2I get 5/6 hours of irc out of my n80007:42
Tama^2honestly even the slide-out keyboard would be very limiting for irc-style chat07:43
Tama^2(IMO of course)07:43
Tester_Tama^2: actually it works quite well07:43
niitervI just loved the idea of curling up with the n800 and chat on irc.. but don't like the idea of needing another keyboard07:43
Tester_on the n81007:43
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johnxniiterv, the zaurus C1000 keyboard would work just fine07:45
johnxI've even chatted on my old Zaurus 550007:45
niitervCan an n800 be used as a mp3 player? I mean like could I stick it into my back pocket and listen?07:46
johnxniiterv, definitely07:46
johnx2 SD card slots as well07:46
johnxit plays movies fine if you transcode them07:46
niitervThats some of the reasons why I want to get one over a ipod video07:46
johnxnot the best group of people to ask for an objective opinion on that07:47
johnxniiterv, if you have a chance to see one in a brick-and-mortar store and get your hands around it I think you'll quickly get a feel for what's possible in terms of typing07:48
niitervThanks for the help. Gotta hit the bunker. Might be back sometime =)07:50
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* johnx goes afk "dinner time!"08:08
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splitbitpodsync was updated today, but is missing when started. Known issue ?08:37
splitbitdang, nm. Looks like I downloaded the os2007 version.08:40
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pupnikhi luria08:43
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hachiis the sketch program open source on maemo?08:49
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Luriahey pupnik08:55
Luriasorry, busy enjoying my eee08:55
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sitaramhello; (apologies; I realise this is the wrong channel but I can't find any other channels that seem to be relevant): is there *anything* like pidgin for Series 40 phones?09:07
sitaramjust gtalk will do too09:08
splitbitsitaram: There's a MIDP 2.0 client called MGTalk ..09:08
splitbitI don't know if it will work with S40 devices though.09:08
sitarambut it's a start -- I will check, thank you !!!09:09
splitbitBe careful - the main page for the app is not NSFW.09:09
splitbitRather it IS NSFW.09:09
splitbitThe domain seems to have been hijacked.09:09
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splitbitThis page is your best bet :
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sitaramwow -- I was just going to allow FF to redirect when I saw this and desisted!  Thanks again09:14
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sitarambut you're right, from the description on getjar it doesn't seem like it'll work on a 3110.  I will test it over lunch and report back right here, unless I'm booted out for being "off topic" :-)09:15
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proteouswhy am I transfering a large file slowly from my server over it's DSL connection to my main computer over it's cable connection when the server is sitting in my closet...09:31
proteousflash drive FTW09:31
proteousor in this case, socknet09:31
glasso O    why they're not networked directly09:32
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proteousbecause I don't want the server on my network09:33
sitaramsplitbit: I'm getting a series of network connection errors but the app loaded and ran fine, so I'll look at this later... thanks again for all the help on something off-topic!09:33
proteousfor security reasons09:33
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zuhI wonder why anyone would have thought that microb *would* be faster than opera..?-)09:45
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hugolpzuh:  its not faster, nobody said it was faster10:00
hugolp(and if they did they lie)10:00
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zuhThe above pocketables article seems to start with that assumption...10:04
hugolpzuh:  well, its true that its sllower but IMO its better. I mean, for the pages I visit the OS2008 browser renders better than the old Opera browser10:09
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liriopera/mozilla (on n800/n810) both support ajax/javascript?10:19
kulveto some point, yes10:20
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wwphi there10:34
pupnikmore developers10:35
wwpI tried table-encode to convert my movies for reading them on my n810.. conversion works fine and playing is great! I'm wondering how I could add some volume gain, this sounds not possible w/ -m "-lavopts ...", it's more a mencoder topic, but I wonder if anybody has experience here about that?10:36
pupniki just browsed through 'pocketpc' magazine at the gas station10:36
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michelegood mornin'10:36
pupnikmade me absolutely sick to see how many devices run windows mobile10:36
pupnikhi michele10:36
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pupnikone of the best beatles songs uses your nick10:37
michelethat's michelle, and she's a girl ;)10:37
liritiny differences make all the difference in the world :)10:37
pupniki only knew michel and michael as male versions10:38
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wwphi michele10:39
sidusnareI have a 770 and im thinking about getting an 810, but with the divits in my 770's metal shield im concerned about the always exposed screen10:40
michelepupnik: in italian it's a male name10:40
michelepupnik: but don't worry, you are not the first to make this mistake. and won't be the last.10:40
wwpam I wrong or michele can be male in .it?10:40
wwpwelcome to michelle!10:41
michelemichele *is* male in it, and I am in .it :)10:41
wwp(from the song)10:41
pupniksidusnare: valid concern10:42
sidusnareany solutions? is there a decent case? or a bolt / stick on face flap?10:42
pupniksidusnare: my 770 has been dropped from bycicles, running and falling on stone cobbles etc10:42
pupnikthe n810 will not be the same10:42
pupniki put the n810 in bubble wrap in a soft case now10:43
cizarromichele, you live in a TLD?10:43
* cizarro hides & runs10:43
pupnikmichele i apologize for my ignorance of italian names10:44
sidusnareits just wrong that an uninhabited 4000 square mile island has its own tld :-p and 120 registrants in it ! .gs10:44
sidusnareanyway, back on topic, any good cases? or other protectors?10:45
pupnik  look at the beauty...10:45
wwpbetter running THEN hidding10:46
hugolppupnik:  stop showing that10:46
wwpthere's also miguel in spanish10:46
Mouseyoh holy shit10:46
hugolppupnik:  it makes me want it more10:46
pupniki can tar it up hugolp10:46
pupnikif you want to help with gemrb10:46
BlafaselTalking about nice TLDs: I still love .sh and got right away ;)10:47
pupnikbugreports, etc - anything you can do10:47
hugolppupnik:  would love to but I cant at the moment10:47
hugolppupnik:  I can help with bug reports sure10:47
pupnikbut good bug reports require investment also10:47
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pupniki can't even submit any yet10:47
pupniki have to build it on pc first, and that breaks on my system10:48
pupnikfunny the nokia is more 'compatible' with it than my regular linux distro10:48
micheleno worries pupnik10:48
hugolpI havent even played, but it looks like RPG?10:48
michelesometimes it helps having people think I'm a girl ;)10:49
pupnikyes based on the first rpg in the world - dnd10:49
pupnikit is not ready for users ... needs helpers10:49
hugolpmichele:  specially in a geek enviroment10:49
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Blafaselpupnik: Nice stuff10:50
pupnikthe guys who are working on it have been going for like 5 year10:52
Luriagrrr... why is it so hard to find a stick of ram10:52
pupnikthey are 8heroes810:52
Luriaah - bingo!10:54
Blafaselpupnik: Project site somewhere?10:54
Luriacrap, out of stock10:54
Luria...and newegg seems to be the only ones who carry it10:56
Luria</bitch> sorry10:57
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johnxwhat kind of weird RAM are you looking for?10:58
proteoussuper volitile ram10:59
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proteousit actual explodes when you apply power10:59
pupnikBlafasel: only if you want to help with the project10:59
Jaffa77/last jaffa10:59
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JaffaMorning, all10:59
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sarowerHow can i install Libraries in N810 online?11:07
sarowerany body there?11:07
sarowercan help?11:08
pupnikwhen you install an application it should install the required libraries11:08
sarowerbut i need to instll my own application11:09
Luriaram for my eee11:09
Luria200 pin ddr211:09
sarowerthat has some dependency!11:09
pupniksarower: then use
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pupniksearch for library11:09
pupnikinstall repository11:09
pupnikthen apt-get install library11:09
Lurianot odd, but finding a 2gb 4-4-4-12 is a pain11:10
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sarowerhow can i install the Xterm?11:10
Luriaoops, i answered you johnx, didnt realize you left... heh11:10
Veggenpupnik: xterm is already installed.11:10
Veggeneh, sarower.11:10
saroweris xterm is already installed in n810?11:11
pupnikluria, i don't think eee is relevant to this channel11:11
johnxah, sorry, I had weird mouse IRQ issues11:11
saroweroh where it is?11:11
johnxit feels so retro to say that. so very 199811:11
Luriapupnik, not directly, no11:11
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pupnikshall i regale you with my thinkpad tribulations/11:12
johnxand actually I'm afk again11:12
* johnx lurks11:12
Luria<retro>johnx, are you trying to use com1 and com3?</retro>11:12
pupnikhow about my comtrol rocketport stories11:13
Luriaid like to hear about thinkpad tribulations11:13
pupnikthe a30 is not reliable11:13
Luriahow so?11:14
Veggenbtw, anyone seen usbserial module for the n810?11:14
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Veggeneh, for os2008.11:14
pupniktoo high instance of graphics problems11:14
Veggen....does it exist?11:14
Veggen(or do I need to compile?)11:14
Luriathinkpads are my second favorite line of laptops11:14
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VeggenI'm considering testing the n810 as serial console-appliance, one of these days ;)11:15
Luriathat would be a nice server rescue thing11:16
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sarowerveggen: do you know how do i install library in N810..11:21
Veggendpkg -i11:21
sarowersuppose livhildon..!11:21
sarowerfrom internet?11:21
Veggeneh. please tell me what you want?11:21
VeggenDo you have a precompiled package? does it exist in a repository?11:22
saroweri have a device N81011:22
sarowerNow i need to install the libhildonmm11:22
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Luriamichele, i was looking for cl4 ;-)11:22
sarowerand other dependencies..!11:22
sarowerhow can i install that11:23
sarowermy application is not in a repository11:23
Veggenbut is the libhildonmm?11:23
Luriabut thank you11:23
micheleLuria: (I don't even know what CL4 means)11:23
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Veggensarower: either with apt-get install from the xterm (you need to be root), or by enabling red pill mode in the application installer.11:24
VeggenI guess.11:24
sarowerbut red pill mode does not work!11:24
sarowerhow i be a root?11:25
Veggenhow doesn't it work?11:25
sarowerit does not get the libraries list!11:25
saroweri did it11:25
Veggensarower: it does list *all packages* that it knows about in the repositories you have configured.11:26
sarowerhow the repositories can be configured?11:26
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Veggenok. This might sound rude, but is not meant: The first thing you need to do, is to learn to use google, maemo wiki, etc.11:27
* michele thinks people here are very very kind and patient11:27
VeggenOr else you're gonna drive the people in this channel mad. Including me ;)11:27
Veggenthere's no shortcut to actually learning the basics.11:28
* desrt observes the flemish content of the channel increase slightly11:28
saroweris it to add the web in sources.list?11:28
Luriamichele, its ram timing11:29
sarowerok man11:29
saroweri know these!11:29
sarowerdont be crazy!11:29
* desrt observes the sanity content of the channel decrease slightly11:30
desrtcoincidence?  i think not.11:30
Veggensarower: What you're trying to do is *not* exactly beginner-stuff, and if you expect us to explain that from a beginner-level knowledge, you are simply asking to much of unpaid support.11:31
pupnikthat is good advice11:32
pupnikbut one can still guide people11:32
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Veggenso you need to realize that you have to do a lot of research on the basics of the device on your own, and rather come back and ask clarifications if there's something that's not explained well.11:32
Veggenpupnik: of course.11:32
pupniklike you are doing right now11:32
pupniksarowar - dependencies are programs that your program needs to run11:33
sarowerok man11:33
pupnikif the dependencies are compiled, you can find them on the gronmeyer index11:33
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pvanhoofhi desrt :)11:33
pupnikif they are not compiled, you need to compile them11:34
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desrtpvanhoof; yo :p11:35
desrtbarisione; hi to you too11:35
desrtto everyone else; goodbye.11:35
barisionedesrt: hi :)11:36
pvanhoofdesrt, in stead of making fun of poor flemish guys behind their back, is your code finished? We're all waiting unpatiently on that great configuration api that you've been promising us since guadec!11:36
desrti just bought an eee11:37
desrtand i'm wasting a lot of time playing with it11:37
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pvanhoofdesrt, it probably needs configuration too11:39
desrtit definitely does11:39
desrtit has some bullcrap distribution on it by default11:39
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desrtbut i added debian etch repositories to it and have been happily upgrading :)11:39
desrthi murray :)11:39
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michelepvanhoof: any hints on how to get some info on why modest is crashing as soon as I accept my company's certificate (I'd like to provide a sensible report)11:40
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michelethe default mail client works with it11:40
pvanhoofmichele, ulimit -c unlimited ; run-standalone modest showui ; and send us the core file11:40
pvanhoofor install gdb and try to get a backtrace out of it11:41
michelepvanhoof: ok11:41
desrtmichele; with only 128MB of memory, the n800 is incapable of fitting all of the design patterns contained in tinymail.... so it runs out of memory and crashes :(11:41
pvanhoofor just ping djcb if he's online11:41
pvanhoofdesrt, :)11:41
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zaheermdesrt, :)11:41
pvanhooffu etc etc :)11:41
* desrt evil grin11:44
micheleI actually quite ejoyed philip's explanations of the design11:44
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pvanhoofmichele, to find the core file: find . -name core11:44
pvanhoofin your $HOME, sometimes the process chdirs to $HOME/.modest/11:44
* desrt notes the high probability that the core will contain sensitive information11:44
michele"sometimes" ...11:44
pvanhoofwell, not at the moment of his certificate question11:44
pvanhoofhis password will still be in gconf I think11:44
pvanhoofyes, modest stores passwords there :(11:44
desrtseems about right11:44
desrtwhere else might it put them?11:44
micheleI'll send the core to djcb, and this account is going to die in about a month11:44
pvanhoofwell, it should really use a password store that keeps the password out of swap files (but indeed, the maemo devices don't have swap)11:44
pvanhoofdoesn't maemo have something like gnome-keyring?11:45
desrtpvanhoof; do you have an opinion about ext3 on flash?11:45
desrtand by "flash" i mean SD cards11:46
pvanhoofwell, umfs is better11:46
desrtUnited Methodist Family Services11:46
pvanhoofand journaling on flash? just use ext3, no?11:46
proteousfat32 FTW11:46
desrtwell... that's my point11:46
desrtdoes the journal cause an appreciable increase in wear?11:46
micheleno core to be found11:47
proteousI just write onto my flash sequencialy and keep the address table written on a napkin in my back pocket11:47
micheleI did set ulimit11:47
pvanhoofI meant UBIFS11:47
desrtoh.  right.11:47
desrtso i'm installing ubuntu :)11:48
pvanhoofmichele, strange .. well, you could try installing gdb. You know how to do this michele ?11:48
pvanhoofYou basically need to add a repository to your sources.list file, and fakeroot apt-get install gdb11:48
pvanhoofYou might want unstripped binaries of modest and tinymail too11:48
michelepvanhoof: yes11:49
pvanhoofI'm not sure how the current packages store the shared object files11:49
pvanhoofthen, important is to run whatever you find in run-standalone in your shell11:49
pvanhoofI think it sources a file and unsets a env. variable11:49
pvanhoofand then gdb modest, set args showui and run11:49
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michelethank you11:50
micheleanyway, this is a bit more work than a core dump, and I'm supposed to be working :)11:50
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desrtsupposedly ext3 will wear my SD cards out a lot faster11:52
desrtlike they might only last for 50 years instead of 10011:52
Cptn-N800Oh noes11:52
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pvanhoofmichele, same here :)11:54
pvanhoofso I'm now going to start serving that customer :)11:54
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lirito work with hildon on my desktop do I need just python-hildon package or is there anything else?12:22
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Spakmanis there an API for altering the default application for a certain mime type? I realise I can just edit the /etc/gnome/defaults.list directly (as root).12:30
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liriattempting to run the hello world code in this article  on my desktop results in the script being ran but nothing happens12:38
kalawhen the N770 (running ITOS 2007 HE) displays boot manager and displays Nokia logo, but reboots after that, how can I find out whats wrong? I started from different partition and did e2fsck on the filesystem, which fixed lots of errors, but the N770 still doesn't boot up. Is therea hardware console possibility or something?12:38
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zuhThere is a serial console, but it requires building a cable for the pins and so on. Another possibility would be installing bootmenu and including telnet or sshd on the initfs but that would basically need a working device...13:01
zuhYou could of course create an initfs on some other machine, copy it from there and flash it but...13:02
kalazuh: well, I can boot from other partition13:03
kalaand from internal flash13:04
zuhAh, ok.13:04
sarowerproblem when creating deb for N81013:04
sarowerany body?13:05
sarower# Add here commands to configure the package.13:05
sarower./configure --host=arm-linux-gnueabi --build=arm-linux-gnueabi --prefix=/usr --mandir=\${prefix}/share/man --infodir=\${prefix}/share/info CFLAGS="-Wall -g -O2" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs"13:05
sarowerchecking for a BSD-compatible install... /scratchbox/tools/bin/install -c13:05
sarowerchecking whether build environment is sane... yes13:05
sarowerchecking for gawk... gawk13:05
sarowerchecking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes13:05
sarowerchecking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no13:05
sarowerchecking for arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc... arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc13:05
sarowerchecking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables13:05
sarowerSee `config.log' for more details.13:05
sarowermake: *** [config.status] Error 7713:05
sarowerwhen giving the command: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot13:05
zuhkala: I've done some debugging by simply editing the linuxrc to echo stuff on the initfs, but that's a bit dangerous :)13:06
zuh(echo to a file I mean)13:06
kalazuh: hmm ...13:06
kalaits not possible to view the booting text?13:06
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kalaok, there was, you sayd it13:07
kalabut this cable for serial console is different from usb cable?13:07
unique311so happy.13:08
zuhkala: Yeah, it's basically a normal serial cable, but the problem is that the connector is just a flat set of contacts inside the machine...13:08
unique311finally hildon an app.13:09
unique311now to pack it up.13:09
kalazuh: ok.13:09
zuhI'm not sure if anyone has actually done such cable though, just heard plans of such13:09
sarowerany body there??13:10
sarowerto solve the prob?13:10
sarower problem when creating deb for N81013:10
sarower<sarower> any body?13:10
sarower<sarower> dh_testdir13:10
sarower<sarower> # Add here commands to configure the package.13:10
sarower<sarower> ./configure --host=arm-linux-gnueabi --build=arm-linux-gnueabi --prefix=/usr --mandir=\${prefix}/share/man --infodir=\${prefix}/share/info CFLAGS="-Wall -g -O2" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs"13:10
sarower<sarower> checking for a BSD-compatible install... /scratchbox/tools/bin/install -c13:10
sarower<sarower> checking whether build environment is sane... yes13:10
sarower<sarower> checking for gawk... gawk13:10
sarower<sarower> checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes13:10
sarower<sarower> checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no13:10
sarower<sarower> checking for arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc... arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc13:10
sarower<sarower> checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables13:10
kalasarower: see config.log for more details13:10
sarower<sarower> See `config.log' for more details.13:10
sarower<sarower> make: *** [config.status] Error 7713:11
sarowerI know but it is not clear to me......13:11
michelesarower: as was said before, this is not begnnier stuff13:11
michelesarower: if you don't know what you are doing, you should read manuals and documentation13:11
sarowerbut this thing is not beginner issue..!13:12
micheleand you are a beginner13:12
liriany idea about running that hello world code from the article?13:12
liriwhen I run a python/gtk/hildon app on my desktop I see no gui window. what could I be missing?13:13
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Veggen(usbserial for os2008)13:15
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Veggensarower: it's not that beginners doesn't deserve help, but you have too high expectations for what you can get done as a beginner. You need to get the feel of installing/using the device first. And did you compile programs for Linux desktop/server before? etc.13:18
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scriptthat sandisk micro sd -> mini sd adaptors suck hard ..13:37
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scriptjust read the itt thread and got it working *sigh*13:38
michelehaven't had problems with mine13:38
scripti never thought that stupid passive component would be the critical one13:38
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Spakmanalterego: you're probably aware of this, but you repos is down14:03
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* lcuk_2 hides away from the chaos at work14:06
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* GeneralAntilles alerts lcuk_2's boss.14:10
maddlermorning all14:11
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alteregoSpakman, indeed. Another problem with my damn server. I'm migrating to a new service as we speak.14:29
Spakmanalterego: would you mind if I temporarily hosted your Ruby debs on my server for my friends to access?14:31
alteregoNo, by all means.14:32
alteregoDo you have them?14:32
Spakmangood luck with the new service (it's a total pain in the arse shifting)14:32
alteregoThanks, but I'm through the worst of it now ^_^14:32
SpakmanI think I have most of them, but would be great if you could send me ruby1.8-sqlite14:33
solmumahaalterego: new release coming?14:33
alteregosolmumaha, hopefully. When I get my services back online ..14:34
solmumahayou run it on 770he?14:34
solmumaha770he is quite stable14:35
alteregoI've dropped support for OS2007 :P14:35
solmumahathat means 2006 too?14:35
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alteregofor now.14:36
GeneralAntillesHopefully OS2008HE will actually get out the door.14:36
solmumahacan you still host the older debs for them?14:36
alteregoOf course.14:36
solmumahai'm not moving to newer then :)14:36
alteregoWhen I get more time, I'll back port to 2007 and 200614:36
solmumahakeep your libconic14:37
alteregoBut I'm under a shit load of shit right now :/14:37
solmumahasounds bad14:37
GeneralAntillesShovel faster!14:37
solmumahabut i'm happy with what you gave already14:37
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thopiekarhi @ all15:10
thopiekarwhat'S new??15:10
johnxfunny you should ask15:11
johnxI'm just putting the finishing touches on my hacked-up tarball of debian for the N8x015:11
wikkinice john15:12
liriis anyone doing pygtk+hildon programming on a desktop as the development box?15:12
thopiekardp switch15:14
thopiekarhey john thanks for the15:15
thopiekara2dp switch15:15
thopiekarit works fine^^15:15
johnxgood to hear15:15
thopiekaris just the mplayer hackable??15:16
thopiekaris it able to hack the osso-player too??15:16
johnxanything that uses alsa directly for output can use a2dp15:16
johnxosso-player uses gstreamer and sends audio to the N8x0's DSP15:16
johnxand better yet, it's not open source, AFAIK15:17
thopiekaris it switch able?? from gstreamer to alsa??15:17
thopiekarthanks for the informations^^15:17
johnxluckily, people inside and outside nokia are still working on A2DP so it should get better eventually15:19
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* jsmith-away wanders away...15:31
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Spakmanalterego: are you able to send me the ruby1.8-sqlite3 deb, please?15:55
lcuk_2hey GeneralAntilles, you can't go alerting my  boss.  i only peeked  in for a minute.  thankfully i am winning15:55
GeneralAntillesI'll do what I want!15:56
* Tak alert lcuk_2's boss15:58
lcuk_2:O at you all15:58
lcuk_2hmmmmmmm - i just noticed my wireles sconnection is running.  it was forcefully closed last night and nothing should be going through it15:59
* Tak opened it in order to alert your boss16:00
lcuk_2lol - hmmm for some reason my 810 is powered up16:00
lcuk_2can i disable wireless from putty?16:01
sp3000it works best that way16:01
lcuk_2not really im about a zillion miles away at work using vnc16:01
lcuk_2unless the cat is using it16:01
lcuk_2hmmm - how do i remotely enable the cam and take a picture16:01
lcuk_2ive got root16:01
lcuk_2is that possible?16:02
johnxfind something that captures from /dev/video0 on the command line16:02
johnxI think it's just a generic V4L device16:03
Takmplayer will do that16:03
lcuk_2why cant i just apt-get picture :P16:03
fugitivomplayer /dev/video0 works?16:04
lcuk_2mplayer might do, but the ssh session is terminal based16:04
fugitivooutput to a file16:04
lcuk_2i just need to start it and grab16:04
zaheermgst-launch v4l2src ! ffmpegcolorspace ! pngenc ! filesink location=abc.png16:05
Takon a desktop you can do mplayer -vo png -frames N16:05
Takah, zaheerm has hit16:05
fugitivomplayer /dev/video0 -vo jpeg16:05
zaheermi am assuming ffmpegcolorspace and pngenc are on device16:06
lcuk_2your assuming a lot, i havent even got gst-launch16:06
zaheermffmpegcolorspace is, pngenc not16:06
fugitivojust use mplayer16:06
zaheermlcuk_2, install gstreamer-tools16:07
lcuk_2not installed - stock 810 ssh session and the desktop  end is win..16:07
fugitivoif you want to do something, you'll need the correct tools16:07
zaheermlcuk_2, apt-get install gstreamer-tools16:07
lcuk_2lol it was just an idle curious thought16:07
oilwhoa erniming can sync google calendar with the device gpe calendar. this is one great app.16:08
alteregoSpakman, I don't have a new package. What version are you using?16:08
lcuk_2dang, work to do - ill follow this up later and get it working16:08
alteregoOh, yes I do :)16:09
Taklcuk_2: install cygwin, enable x-forwarding, install camera app on the device, ... :-P16:10
Spakmanalterego: brilliant, thanks a lot.16:11
alteregoNo problem :)16:12
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maddlerdamn... can't make ad-hoc networking work16:13
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maddlerTak: no... it works on N810... but somehow my laptop refuses to work... :)16:18
maddlerI can connect from N95 to N81016:18
maddlerbut not from my linux box to N81016:18
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TakI had a lot of problems with my thinkpad, but I blamed it on windows16:19
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johnxI have never seen ad-hoc networking work well16:20
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johnxI mean, I believe that it's *possible*, just I've never *seen* it16:20
maddlerwell... I was using ad-hoc when I had a Palm...16:21
maddlerquite a long time ago... :)16:21
maddlerI sold my Palm when I bought 770 :)16:21
johnxI got lucky. The compactflash wifi adapter for my zaurus uses the hostap drivers so it's an instant AP in a pinch :)16:23
johnxheh...never leave home without an access point...16:23
maddlerI'll bring my wrt54gl with me next time! :D16:23
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kknHello all! I just got my first Internet Tablet and I'm setting up the development environment16:25
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kknit was quite easy and didn't have any problems with that16:25
kknI can run hello worlds and I've read through the tutorial16:26
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kknbut I can't find any good code examples16:26
maddlerkkn: not sure... but there should be something on maemo.org16:26
kknI'd like to play around with the GPS stuff, but I'd like to have a working code example16:26
kknall I found was a doxygen doc16:27
kknany ideas about applications that use gpsmgr.h?16:27
Blafaselkismet perhaps?16:28
BlafaselAt least I think it can support gps sources16:28
johnxkkn, maemo mapper accesses GPS, but I don't know which method it uses16:28
kknso is gpsmgr.h the right way?16:28
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kknBlafasel: thanks I'll take a look at kismet!16:29
kknjohnx: and maemo mapper too16:29
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kknI raelly dont know too much about the platform as such or what applications are available16:30
kknjust the very basics16:30
Blafasel(I'd love to see a working kismet for chinook..)16:30
kknhas anyone tried TDD on maemo?16:31
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kknor BDD for that matter?16:32
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* Tak TDD: command not found16:32
kknTest-driven development16:32
maddleroh... no...not me16:33
kknor behavior16:33
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micheleehm... is tablet-encode --best really the best I can get?16:33
kknI don't any good tdd/bdd frameworks for c, but there are a few for c++16:33
TakI do with ruby16:34
GeneralAntillesmichele, go and edit tablet-encode for a higher bitrate.16:34
kknTak: cool!16:34
Takthere's a test framework going into glib soon16:34
GeneralAntilles~1000Kbps works well for me16:34
GeneralAntilles1200Kbps will probably be ok.16:34
kknTak: are ruby bindings for maemo available?16:35
michelebtw, media player doesn't seem to like the video it generates16:35
johnxyou can bump the resolution a little, too probably, but it's barely noticeable16:35
micheleI have to use mplayer16:35
micheleit worked only with one generated with --average16:35
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Takkkn: yes16:36
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kknTak: thats nice!16:36
kknc++ tdd:
micheleGeneralAntilles: should I use -2?16:36
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kknc++ bdd:
kkncppspec is in very early stages16:37
GeneralAntillesOnly if you're not doing on-the-fly encoding.16:37
GeneralAntillesIf it's for mediaserv, don't16:37
GeneralAntillesif it's for storage and you don't mind waiting a little more, do.16:37
micheleI'm just trying the settings, actually16:38
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GeneralAntillesAlso, -c can save time if most of your audio is already in mp3 or aac16:40
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micheleGeneralAntilles: even if it's not 44.1kHz?16:41
GeneralAntillesIt'll be fine.16:41
GeneralAntillesProblems will arise for AC3, etc.16:41
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Takkkn: yeah, I've been using cppunit on another (non-maemo) project16:46
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lophytehey all, I'm playing around with canola2 and its not picking up any of the media on my removable card... any suggestions?17:09
johnxI thought I heard you have to tell it where to look in settings somewhere17:09
GeneralAntillesDid you add it as a watched directory?17:09
* johnx doesn't use canola17:10
lophyteI went into the settings and checked off removable disk but its still not picking anything up17:10
lophyteis there another place to add specific directories?17:10
GeneralAntillesSame place17:10
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lophytethe only options it gives is "audio clips", "removable card", and "internal card"17:11
* michele thinks we really need a good no-frills audio player17:12
* GeneralAntilles opens Canola.17:12
lophyteall of which are checked (i.e. it shows an eye, rather than a crossed out icon)17:12
Spakmanhmm - I've just installed my (Ruby) app on my friends clean OS2008 device but get this error: " cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory". Does anyone know what provides libhildonwidgets?17:12
GeneralAntillesTry tapping the directory icon for internal card?17:12
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lophytethere's no directory icon...17:12
GeneralAntilleser, removable.17:12
GeneralAntillesOK, the name.17:13
lophytetried that too17:13
lophyteone sec let me try something17:13
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lophytedon't see why this should matter, but maybe its because I'm running KDE17:14
lophytelooks like its working now.. it says updating database17:16
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lophyteI guess canola doesn't like KDE17:16
TakSpakman: libhildonwidgets is an os2007 library17:16
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michelelophyte: it could be using some system service that kde doesn't have17:18
SpakmanTak: ah, that makes sense then. Cheers.17:19
lophyteor maybe KDE is locking the disk17:19
lophyteI know startmaemo is run when I startup KDE.. the only difference is no hildon-desktop17:19
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Spakmanalterego: are you able to send me / link to ruby-maemo 0.4.0?17:21
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fysacanola uses media-engine or something17:26
lophytenot sure why that wouldn't be available in kde17:26
lophyteit picked up the media on the internal card though17:26
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k-s[WORK]you can use mplayer to play your media17:28
k-s[WORK]Tak: just posted about your ruby-lms :-)17:28
lophyteyeah, I can use KDE's various media players, but canola rocks :P17:29
johnxso, how long is kismet supposed to work before it dies off?17:29 there a list someplace to which I should be subscribed?17:30
micheleTak: it is on garage (mediascanner)17:30
k-s[WORK]lophyte: no, I mean we support playback using mplayer17:30
k-s[WORK]lophyte: sorry17:30
k-s[WORK]Tak, michele ?17:31
lophyteI don't think it was a playback issue.. it just couldn't find my media17:31
Takmichele: http://lms.garage.maemo.org17:31
Takk-s[WORK]: to what did you just post?17:31
Takmichele: ah, I thought you were asking17:32
k-s[WORK]lophyte: you can try to debug by running "canolad stop; canolad start -v -v -l /home/user/canolad.log"17:32
micheleeh :)17:32
* michele plans to try lms17:32
k-s[WORK]lophyte: do it as regular "user" (not root!)17:32
k-s[WORK]Tak: my blog, it might show in some hours in planet17:32
lophytek-s[WORK], cool, I'll try it out, but it seems to be working now.. I rebooted into the hildon-desktop17:33
k-s[WORK]michele: mediascanner is yet-another scanner?17:33
micheleI glanced at the docs, but it's not very clear how I am supposed to use it17:33
michelek-s[WORK]: no, I meant lms17:33
k-s[WORK]michele: how to use lms?17:33
k-s[WORK]michele: there is a test there, really simple17:33
michelein the source?17:33
k-s[WORK]michele: and a python test, even easier to get the overall idea17:33
* Tak add rss feed17:34
k-s[WORK]you have 2 separate calls:17:35
k-s[WORK]check -> check files from DB to see if they're consistent, removed or what. If mtime (modification time) changed, reparse it17:35
k-s[WORK]process -> given a folder, scan recursively for media, adding new media, reparsing those with different mtime from DB17:36
k-s[WORK]check will mark files as deleted in DB (dtime = current time)17:37
k-s[WORK]so you can choose to expire these in future17:37
micheleso, given an hypotethical music player17:37
k-s[WORK]and so mmc removal and re-add will not require reparse of all media17:37
Takhmm, I guess I should write an example17:37
micheleat startup I shuold check the DB17:37
* Tak ++TODO17:37
* michele too17:38
k-s[WORK]michele: often you check the DB and process folders, to guarantee new musics will be added to DB17:38
k-s[WORK]so it's a combination of lms_check() and lms_process()17:38
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michelewhat I don't understand is17:38
k-s[WORK]I just not liked to force you to call both, but it's recommended17:38
michelehow do I get a list of all the music files in the DB?17:38
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johnxtonight's notes: mac spoofing works fine with N800 booted in Debian, as does kismet. :)17:40
micheleam I supposed to just go and read the sqlite store by myself?17:40
k-s[WORK]michele: lms just add to DB17:40
k-s[WORK]michele: then you get from DB using your preferred library17:40
k-s[WORK]michele: it's sqlite317:40
micheleooh ok17:40
michelethat's what I was missing17:40
k-s[WORK]michele: if you're using python you can use SQLObject, SQLAlchemy, Storm...17:41
micheleyou should add a line explaining this somewhere on the site17:41
k-s[WORK]michele: actually in canola we run lms on another process we call "canola-daemon"17:41
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k-s[WORK]to avoid crashing the main process if it crash for some reason, also helps to not block the main process17:41
k-s[WORK]and the coupling between then is low, so we just have few dbus calls (start, stop, is_processing...)17:42
k-s[WORK]michele: makes sense... but do you have a text idea? :-)17:42
michelek-s[WORK]: something very simple: for example after the last paragraph, "applications can then access the sqlite database to get all the informations about scanned media"17:43
micheleand hopefully a link to a description of the DB's schema :)17:44
michelelms is a neat idea, though17:44
michelesomething that would be useful in desktop linux too17:45
michelejust like eds17:45
BlafaselHmm.. Just found this:
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BlafaselBtw: Doesn't it look more like a N800 if at all?17:48
GeneralAntillesIt's a super-fat N800.17:48
melmoththere was a similar clone rumored monthes ago.17:48
melmothnever saw it becoming real, did we ?17:48
k-s[WORK]Tak: what's a good ORM for Ruby so I can cite it?17:48
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k-s[WORK]michele: table desc is at the end of
k-s[WORK]maybe it would be good to provide SQLObject and Storm schemas for python-lms17:50
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Takk-s[WORK]: are you looking for something like ?17:51
michelek-s[WORK]: any plans to add album cover data?17:51
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k-s[WORK]michele: I think it deserves another place17:53
k-s[WORK]michele: I could mark if images have a cover or not17:54
k-s[WORK]michele: that's all that can fit there without hurting library scope and even performance17:54
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k-s[WORK]michele: updated with your request17:59
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michelek-s[WORK]: very nice18:01
johnxanyone interested in a nice tarball of debian for the N8x0 that they can boot from the SD card? raise your hands now!18:02
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k-s[WORK]johnx: what's the point?18:02
k-s[WORK]johnx: or what's good in it?18:03
johnxtinkering for now18:03
k-s[WORK](being debian is not a pro to me... if it was gentoo...)18:03
* michele has his hands full18:03
johnx8000+ debian packages, ready to install18:03
micheleargh. gento..18:03
johnxk-s[WORK], if it was gentoo you'd be compiling until next year18:03
lophytejohnx, I'll give it a shot :)18:03
johnxbig thanks to fysa for hosting!18:03
michelejohnx: come on, don't tickle me18:04
k-s[WORK]johnx: use binary packages, or icecream/distcc and use your pc... the same speed18:04
johnxk-s[WORK], whats the state of binary packages for ARM EABI on gentoo?18:04
* johnx is honestly interested18:04
k-s[WORK]johnx: dunno, never bothered :-P18:04
Takk-s[WORK]: How's look?18:04
lophytejohnx, just extract that to my ext2 partition on my sd card?18:04
lophyteor is there any other configuration necessary18:05
johnxlophyte, do you already have "boot from SD" setup?18:05
lophyteI have a cloned os2008 on my sd card with KDE18:05
Takjohnx: is that a semi-permanent location, or no?18:05
johnxyeah, just extract it on an ext2/3 partition18:05
Tak(i.e. should I bookmark it, or save the tarball someplace18:05
lophytejohnx, I can provide a d/l mirror if you'd like18:05
johnxfysa says it can stay up until february18:06
johnxI'm probably going to get a torrent together in the next couple days18:06
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lophytethat's only a couple of days18:06
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k-s[WORK]Tak: looks fine18:06
lophyteI have a high speed server I can host it on... its available if you're interested18:06
johnxif you're offering I'll take you up on it18:07
johnxthe more mirrors the better18:07
johnxlophyte, do you care if I post a link to that server on a thread on itt? or would it be just for #maemo?18:07
lophytesure, go ahead18:08
Takk-s[WORK]: r3818:09
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lophyteI grabbed it from your server at 5MB/s18:11
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Takk-s[WORK]: I guess rails guys tend to use as well18:14
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cosmoa bit off-topic, but anyone know how to make a dns request to a specific server in c?18:23
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cosmoi can't find a function for that18:24
inzThere probably isn't one18:24
k-s[WORK]dig @server ip18:24
Takcosmo: getnameinfo() ?18:24
fugitivoi don't think you have standard functions for that18:25
k-s[WORK]but if it's code, then you need to talk to port 53 UDP directly18:25
k-s[WORK]package should be trivial18:26
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cosmok-s[WORK]: yep.. i'm trying to avoid writing my own implementation18:26
k-s[WORK]cosmo: maybe bind utils have a shared library18:27
* Tak coughs18:27
k-s[WORK]Tak: you cannot choose the server with that18:27
cosmoTak: hm, looks like it does reverse (ip to hostname)18:27
dragornall the libc stuff I know of uses /etc/resolv18:27
dragornso you'd have to make a udp socket and write a frame out18:28
k-s[WORK]ah, it does, damn my mind is horrible18:28
dragornand listen.  And possibly handle tcp as well.  Annoyingly nontrivial.18:28
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fysait will be up for a couple of weeks at least.18:29
fysawe just have 1.5 terabyte of transfer to blow through this next week ;)18:30
fysathere's a reasonable chance it can just hide here indefinitely.18:30
lophyteI've only got 200GB but whatever..18:30
fysabut if for some reason everyone in china starts downloading, I may have to take it off ;)18:31
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k-s[WORK]Tak: I was right, and so dragorn... it does not use that serv to resolve the ip, but get the remote peer of the socket connection18:31
johnxI'll get a bittorrent together for it soon anyways18:32
lophyteI'll help seed in that case ;)18:33
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lophyteok, time to try this out...18:33
X-Fadekulve: ping?18:33
fysabluetooth works in this one?18:33
johnxlophyte, are you on an N810 or N800?18:34
johnxok, same here18:34
johnxI don't know how screen calibration will be on the N81018:34
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lophyteI'm anxious to hack something up on my n800 but I'm not sure what18:35
Takjohnx: is it using busybox or bash/glibc ?18:35
johnxTak, bash/glibc18:35
johnxIt's just plain debian18:35
Takhmm - how's the performance on that?18:35
johnxI ran epiphany-webkit and had good results with google maps even18:35
* lophyte clears out his 1.5GB partition and extracts debian on it18:36
johnxlophyte, also keep in mind (since I don't have release notes up) all this does is get you to a root prompt with an onscreen keyboard18:37
johnxI don't want to build any hype here18:37
johnxthis is strictly proof of concept18:37
lophyteyeah but it gives me something to hack18:37
lophyteand play with18:37
johnxgood attitude :)18:37
johnxto do any serious hacking you'll want to plug in a usb cable and just telnet in18:37
johnxrelease notes will come up in a couple minutes18:38
lophyteif I can get fluxbox or xfce or even gnome running on it I'll be happy18:38
lophyteit gives me something to blog about in any case, haha18:38
Taknice debian installer that defaults to a correctly configured matchbox would be killer18:38
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johnxTak, well it's not an installer...but that's what this does18:39
johnxalso, nothing on this is "correctly configured"18:39
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lophyteso it supports usb networking and runs telnet?18:39
johnxlophyte, yes18:39
johnxwait about 15 seconds after you select it in the boot menu, then plug in the usb cable and on desktop do: sudo ifconfig usb0
johnxthen telnet
lophytesweet, it works18:43
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johnxthat's great!18:43
lophytewhat WM is that?18:43
johnxsame WM as Nokia uses18:44
johnxjust configured differently18:44
fysaif someone gets matchbox working with all the extra fun stuff, send me the image ;)18:44
fysawe can put both up..18:44
johnxfysa, like all the stuff the OE/angstrom guys have?18:44
johnxI think most of that's not in debian...18:44
johnxbut at least now compiling it is dead simple18:45
fysamaybe we need a new repository18:45
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Takheh, for some reason, I read that as "dead people"18:45
fysaand meta-packages18:45
jottjohnx: fyi my kismet runs for 2 hours now on os200818:46
johnxI'd like to see more of the core stuff working first18:46
johnxjott, ah interesting.18:46
johnxit looks like whatever they did to the drivers in november helped18:46
jott(that is plain sid backport)18:47
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johnxwell it works in debian too, so at least there's no regression18:47
lophyteI wonder if debian+kde would run faster than os2008+kde18:47
kulveX-Fade: pong18:48
johnxhmm...guess you get to find out :)18:48
Taknext xmaeme release will support gnuboy :-)18:48
X-Fadekulve: Check ;)18:49
* jott has to wait for his debian tests until his new sd card arrives :(18:49
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johnxjott, it's ok. lots of stuff will probably be *actually working* and not quite as hacky by then18:50
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jottheh..yeah i actually ordered the card last week but all in a sudden it went out of stock.. it should arrive tomorrow hopefully..18:51
kulveX-Fade: "The server timed out"?18:51
X-Fadekulve: Ehm, no that shouldn't be it ;)18:51
jottanyway.. i've no problem with tinkering around ;)18:52
lophytejohnx, if you need a hand getting anything in particular working I'm willing to play around18:53
kulveX-Fade: trying again..18:53
jottthough meanwhile i've nearly all major debian/sid build-deps installed and running in scratchbox :)18:53
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johnxlophyte, anything you get working just add to the wiki page here:
johnxpower saving is probably going to be the hardest18:54
kulveX-Fade: oh, the pearl? :)18:54
X-Fadekulve: Yeah ;) I've added it for OS2008.18:54
X-Fadekulve: My question is, are you going to support OS2007 and OS2006 too? Or only OS2008..18:55
kulveX-Fade: that's nice. Although it has an annoying side-affect with voip calls:
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X-Fadekulve: Yeah, I know about that ;)18:55
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kulveX-Fade: probably not. There's one version for 2007 but it doesn't work with the media player and I don't remember anything about 2006 anymore..18:56
X-Fadekulve: Ok, no problem..18:56
lophytejohnx, have you tried doing anything other than just getting it running?18:58
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johnxlophyte, nope18:58
johnxI just got this working at all last night18:58
johnxthanks :D18:58
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jacksteranyone know where I would get python2.5-hildon and python2.5-gtk ?19:00
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* lophyte isn't sure what to play with in debian19:04
johnxsuggestions: epiphany-webkit, kismet, evince, abiword19:04
lophyteinstalling a DE would take forever from here..19:04
lophyteslow connection and all19:04
johnxah, that's too bad19:04
henriqueis there any needed setup to get dbus working properly in scratchbox?19:04
michelelophyte: try wmaker19:04
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johnxmichele, I tried that last night. It works nicely. :)19:05
johnxI think it's the first thing I tested after xeyes19:05
lophytexfce maybe19:05
michelewmaker has a special place in my hearth19:06
Takhow about some of the things that will be required for general usage?19:06
Take.g. a wifi config app(let)?19:07
Takmichele: you print out the source code and burn it? ;-)19:07
johnxnetwork manager should actually work...but I haven't tried it19:07
johnxmichele, I still use it on lower power machines19:07
johnxmy laptop runs it actually :)19:07
fysalophyte: X11 forwarding19:07
fysaand bluetooth mouse19:08
lophytebluetooth mouse would be nice, too bad i don't have one19:08
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micheleTak: I print the source and I stick it to my bedroom walls19:08
lophyteI could use a BT keyboard too19:08
johnxdon't worry, bluetooth doesn't work yet anyways19:09
michelejohnx: I have two machines, mine and the work one, and those are already more than I can manage :)19:09
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johnxmichele, when I was in high school I used to have quite a collection of used machine in various states19:10
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johnxI'm a gadgetaholic :)19:10
lophyteme too19:10
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micheleI'd like to have them too19:11
michelebut I know I'll just leave them there accumulating dust19:11
johnxoh, I always find a way to occupy pretty much all the CPU power I have at the moment19:12
doc|homeI have a cobalt qube I've never even played with :|19:12
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johnxI remember at a previous job having 6 macbooks (that weren't yet deployed) sitting on my desk encoding video19:13
ScreamingHi guyz. Sudden thought...does java work on johnx's debian install? If so, he is not merely a God, he is godallmighty brilliant as well!19:14
johnxScreaming, I actually have no idea.19:14
Takapt-get install gij ;-)19:15
johnxwhat specifically are you looking for with regards to java?19:15
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ScreamingNothing particularly. I hate the language but there is lots written 4 it  that wont go on maemoo.19:16
micheleyes, I'd love to have one of the old powerbooks19:17
michelethe pismo19:17
micheleor the titanium19:17
johnxmichele, I actually liked the look of the older imacs that had the LCD with the long arm and the half-sphere base19:17
michelejohnx: yes, that was great too19:18
Takoh, the lamp ones19:18
ScreamingAnd others love writing for java. Makes the Nx0 even more yummy 4 them19:18
michelejohnx: and in fact you can find plenty of them for sale, but they are still expensive19:18
johnxScreaming, I know next to nothing about what libraries are available for what architectures, but if it's available for Debian armel, it works here19:18
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johnxmichele, yeah, macs keep their value :/19:18
michelejohnx: they were designed by the same guy that designed the original ipod19:19
michelejohnx: that model in particular, collectors love it19:19
johnxthat would explain it :/19:19
j0ttis there a hildonized gvim?19:19
micheleme I'm planning to reinstall OS9 on my ibook 2001 as soon as my borther returns it19:19
micheleand use it as my media server :)19:20
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GeneralAntillesOS9? <_<19:20
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johnxGeneralAntilles, it's almost like a modern operating system if you sort of tilt your head and squint. :P19:21
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GeneralAntillesHa . . . I'm so glad my Mac Classic days are behind me.19:21
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GeneralAntillesCES interview is up:
johnxGeneralAntilles, and I'm glad the first time I had to really deal with MacOS was 10.419:22
johnxah cool19:22
micheleOS9 was great19:22
ScreamingGotta do some googling about java bbl19:22
micheleOSX is getting more and more a mess19:22
GeneralAntillesOS9 was horrible.19:22
GeneralAntillesOS8 was worse.19:22
* Tak anticipate revisitation of ITT/macos flamewar19:23
GeneralAntilles7 was OK19:23
skiburnice funny video19:23
GeneralAntillesMac Classic is barely an OS . . .19:23
GeneralAntillesAssigning memory to applications in their info dialogs is tons of fun.19:23
johnxI think you both like different version for different reasons19:24
fysathe best Mac pre-OS X was a fast Amiga with a video card and Shapeshifter emulation software. ;)19:24
ScreamingMa OS7 was one step up from the Spectrum19:24
skiburDo Windows and Mac have the same Kernel?19:24
johnxmichele, I'm assuming you're not too fond of the direction OSX is going in terms of GUI design19:24
GeneralAntillesskibur, hahaha19:24
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johnxanyways, I think we can all agree that NeXT Step was the best release of MacOS ever :P19:25
skiburI'm working on a new distro19:25
skiburLinux + Windows 3.1119:25
skiburI really wanna see this19:26
johnxinstall twm and switch your x server to 16 colors19:26
johnxclose enough19:26
skiburIt will bring back childhood memories19:26
johnxjust run 3.1 under dosbox19:26
michelejohnx: I think it's losing one of the great values od Mac OS, consistency and an unified design. though I stopped using it at 10.3, and leopard seems to be improved, at least visually you don't have fifteen different UIs19:27
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johnxmichele, yeah, it's really sad when Linux starts having a more unified desktop look+feel than MacOS19:27
michelejohnx: yes, and everybody is waiting for the final release of gnustep :)19:27
michelejohnx: exactly19:27
michelejohnx: well. I won't call it sad, as I am more of a linux person than mac19:28
johnxmichele, but in terms of real OS feature OSX continues to make great strides and <OS9 is just scary19:28
GeneralAntillesLeopard is a big improvement there.19:28
GeneralAntillesThough some of the arbitrary "because we can" GUI changes piss me off.19:28
michelejohnx: indeed19:28
johnxbut why did they do that to the icons?!19:28
GeneralAntillesI dunno.19:28
GeneralAntillesThat's what CandyBar is for.19:28
micheleoh yeah, look! coverflow in the finder!19:28
GeneralAntillesActually, I get a lot of use out of that one.19:29
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johnxanyways, I need to catch some sleep19:29
GeneralAntillesBut the whole spatial/relational thing took one step forward and two steps back with Leopard.19:29
GeneralAntillesThey need to get that sorted out so I can stop hating the Finder.19:29
johnxI'll trust you guys can carry on a good rant without me :)19:29
GeneralAntillesOf course. ;)19:29
johnx'night all19:30
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Takall we need for a rant is a topic19:30
doc|homeGeorge Busg19:31
jottna you don't even need a topic.. meta ranting is the way to go! ;)19:31
GeneralAntillesEverybody and everything sucks.19:31
Tak"Autotools, an intractably arcane and grotesquely anachronistic cesspool of ineffable complexity that makes even seasoned programmers nauseous."19:31
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jottTak: thats why everyone uses cmake nowadays :P19:32
jottspeaking of... is there actually a hildon cmake module?19:33
* Tak <3 autotools19:33
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lophyten ice19:37
lophytexfce running on n80019:37
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Takcmake seems to be very much focused on c(++)?19:43
Taklophyte: very cool19:43
lophyteand I installed the dillo web browser, hehe19:43
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lophytebah, the matchbox keyboard is way too big19:48
lophytewish I had an n81019:48
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lophytehey penguinbait19:57
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jacksterhmm, I've installed becomeroot20:08
jacksterand when I do sudo gainroot then passwd it keeps saying 'They don't match; try again'20:08
jacksterafter putting in the password twice20:08
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jacksterbut they *do* match20:09
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jacksterhmmm ok, I've got a root password set for user it would seem20:19
jacksterbut I can't do anything with sudo, it just says, for example 'Sorry, user user is not allowed to execute '/usr/bin/apt-get update' as root on Nokia-N800-52-2.'20:20
Takyou need to use visudo as root to give user permissions20:21
fysalophyte: there a firefox package?20:21
DisconnectTak: under maemo the fix is to edit /usr/sbin/gainroot20:22
Disconnectjackster: see above. :) then its 'sudo gainroot'20:22
* Tak shrugs20:23
* Tak uses sudo under maemo20:24
jacksterDisconnect: so I edit /usr/sbin/gainroot and do something with visudo?20:25
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Disconnectunder "option A"20:27
fysathis is a good firefox alternative for native debian20:29
Cptnodegardi hate applying screen protectors -.-20:29
fysaI suffered with bubbles and rubbery feel for a few weeks then got sick of it and took it off..20:30
fysamaybe if I had an N810, but the N800.. ;)20:30
fysait's not terribly attractive to begin with, it could use some character20:30
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Cptnodegardi always buy screen protectors in packs of 10 from china xD20:31
Cptnodegardas i dont do bubbles at ALL20:31
Cptnodegardtook 3 tries this time :S20:31
fysaKazehakase has a ruby-based internal scripting language also20:31
fysaSwiftweasel is an optimized Firefox that supports mozilla extensions.20:34
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Takfirefox -0MG-0PTIMIZED!!!20:35
fysaI want grabanddrag :)20:35
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_berto_anyone in UK/US/Germany ?20:41
VReI feel that the wiki is nowadays underused.. all the new maemo related stuff is now in some other wiki20:41
keesj_what other wiki?20:41
Blafasel_berto_: Germany, why?20:42
_berto_Blafasel: can you open  and send me an screenshot ?20:42
fysathat's the beauty of wikis :)20:42
* Tak US20:42
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_berto_there seems to be a new service in ->
fysatake all the fun stuff out of the others and paste it in the maemo wiki ;)20:42
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Blafasel_berto_: So?20:44
BlafaselI'm already a subscriber.. What do you want to see from that screenshot? ;)20:44
_berto_it seems that in UK/US/Germany there's a new service20:44
Tak_berto_: I get the "Coming Soon" message20:44
_berto_"As of today, you can play full-length tracks and entire albums for free on the website."20:45
_berto_ah, "Coming soon", ok, I'll have to wait then20:45
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BlafaselSame here, Coming Soon20:45
_berto_ok, thanks20:45
BlafaselLet me log in and check if it already offers something20:45
_berto_probably not20:46
lophytefysa, you get firefox working?20:46
_berto_"The soon-to-be announced subscription service will give you unlimited plays and some other useful things"20:46
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_berto_IIUC you'll be able to listen to the tracks from EMI, Sony, Universal and Warner for a fixed subscription (!!)20:47
Blafasel_berto_: Translated, as good as I can: "Listen to titles in full length. Enter the artist here.."20:47
BlafaselLet me give it a try. Just need to pick a good artist ;)20:47
_berto_"During this initial public beta period, each track can be played up to 3 times for free before a notice appears telling you about our upcoming subscription service. The soon-to-be announced subscription service will give you unlimited plays"20:48
_berto_this sounds great20:48
GeneralAntillesSubscription service or the beta?20:48
BlafaselJust playing a title, seems to be 3:40 in length (so probably full)20:48
_berto_I understand that now you have 3 listens per song, and when you subscribe you'll be able to play it unlimited times20:49
fysalophyte: haven't gotten it installed yet, did you see a package for it in apt-cache search?20:49
VRekeesj: for example internettablettalks wiki20:49
BlafaselWell, I subscribed after using for like 20min, because I really support their offer.20:50
lophytefysa, in debian, iceweasel = firefox20:50
fysais it there?20:50
lophytethey changed the name when Mozilla went nuts about licensing of their trade marks20:50
VRefysa: copy and paste .. and change the formating tags :)20:50
Blafaselfirefox is a registered trademark, iirc. Therefor they created iceweasel, to be free of any Mozilla complains20:50
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Blafasellophyte: Naa, not licensing afaik.20:51
fysaif so, - kinetic scrolling and gesture interface add-on for mozilla browsers that support extensions ;)20:51
lophytewell, use of their trade marks in any case20:51
lophytesorry, wrong word20:51
Blafaselfysa: Yep, looks nice20:51
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pupniki still want dillo on the tablet20:52
lophytepupnik, already done.20:52
lophytei have it running here20:53
pupnik:) share pls?20:53
fysayes, pupnik.  debian-armel running natively, all debian-armel packages. :)20:53
fysa(.. KDE)20:53
fysayou could compile on device ;)20:54
pupniki think it's still gtk 1.2, and there's no 2.0 version20:54
lophytepupnik, install debian-armel on an SD card and apt-get install dillo20:54
pupnikwow, i wonder if i could multiboot20:54
lophyteyes you can20:54
fysayou can dedicated an SD just to this..20:55
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Blafasellophyte: Interesting.. Is kismet available for that setup? Probably, right?20:55
fysa3.5.8, as of Dec 30th 200720:55
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lophyteanything available from debian-armel20:55
fysaand kde4libs -
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lophyteI wonder if johnx posted release notes..20:56
lophyteor at least a short howto20:56
fysaQuake 3 Arena ;)20:56
b0unc3how much space require debian-armel ?20:57
lophyteI think20:57
lophytethe tar.bz2 is like 80MB20:57
b0unc3yes, I see.. 84MB...20:57
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b0unc3I will try it on my 770 :)20:58
lophytethat'd be nice, give us some feedback20:58
b0unc3lophyte: sure20:58
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lophytefysa, do you know if johnx posted a howto?20:58
GeneralAntilleslophyte, ITT wiki21:00
lophyteI saw that.. wasn't really a howto...well I guess it was.. lol21:00
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BlafaselHmm.. airreplay is missing as well. =(21:01
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lophyteah, he updated it21:03
lophytehey penguinbait21:03
lophytefinally got a 2gb sd card and got kde up and running :D21:04
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* lophyte tries to get the hardware buttons working in debian21:07
nelsonback ordered.   sigh.21:07
penguinbaitlophyte great21:08
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penguinbaitusing deb?21:08
lophyteno, tarballs21:08
penguinbaitnew tarballs out now :)21:09
lophytebah, gonna make me download and extract them all over? :P21:09
lophytemaybe I should give in and just get a 4gb sd card21:09
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lophyteI could use the 4gb for kde and the 2gb for debian21:09
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penguinbaitare you usin n800 or n81021:10
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penguinbaitman I love this 81021:10
BlafaselHmpf. Okay, aireplay-ng missing, kismet missing. For wardriving fun I guess I actually _need_ to look at the debian option.21:10
pupnikanybody here want to work on the baldur's gate engine port? :/21:12
* pupnik mopes21:12
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* Tak perks21:13
Takwe have source to baldur's gate engine?21:13
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pupnik  Tak21:14
lophytewow, they really jump in price from 2GB to 4GB21:14
* Tak head explode21:15
lophyten800 supports sdhc right?21:15
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lophytefound one21:16
lophytekingmax 4gb SDHC $19.9921:16
b0unc3lophyte: where ?21:16
lophytemy local comp shop21:16
Knirchwoot? I haven't been paying attention to the prices of memory cards, that's just insanely cheap :)21:16
penguinbaitwhat is kingmax?21:16
lophytea company that makes memory21:16
GeneralAntillesnewegg has the 4GB for under $1021:17
GeneralAntilles8GB is around $3021:17
GeneralAntilles16GB is about $8021:17
lophytenewegg requires shipping and time21:17
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lophyteI can walk into my local comp shop, hehe21:17
GeneralAntillesEh, the price benefit is usually worth it.21:17
penguinbaitlophyte is impatient21:17
GeneralAntillesEspecially with sales tax.21:17
lophyteand you put shipping on top of the price..21:17
penguinbaitI know the feeling21:17
lophyteit kinda works out21:18
penguinbaitI am waiting for my 4gb from newegg right now21:18
thpdoes 16GB SDHC work on N800?21:18
GeneralAntilleslophyte, no, it usually doesn't. :P21:18
GeneralAntillesFree shipping a lot of the time.21:18
lophytewhere do you see under $10?21:18
thpthat'd be 32GB maximum, then - right? wow..21:19
lophytewait, nm21:19
lophytelooking in the wrong spot21:19
GeneralAntillesand 64GB when we have 32GB cards.21:19
Cptnodegardyes thp. plus you could connect a 32gb stick in host mode :p21:19
Cptnodegardif you were really desperate21:19
GeneralAntillesOr a 1TB hard drive.21:19
Cptnodegardhah good luck finding a portable power source for battery21:19
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GeneralAntillesSure, if you're listening to music in the car, why not?21:20
thpsticking SD cards into the n800 is practical, carrying around cables and everyhting is not ;)21:20
lophyteGeneralAntilles, where did you see 4gb for <$10? cheapest I see is $1521:20
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GeneralAntillesIt was a rebate21:20
lophyteoh yeah I see that21:20
Cptnodegardi should find a tiny usb stick and make it directly compatible with n800, no adapters21:20
lophyte$9.49 after rebate21:20
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VReHow much does SD-cards waste power when connected? It does not need refreshing like ram does, so I wonder..21:21
lophyteGeneralAntilles, damn, that same thing is $24 at my local shop :P21:21
lophytethe a-data anyway21:21
GeneralAntillesNo free shipping right now21:21
GeneralAntillesSo buy bulk! :P21:21
* lophyte is impatient, though21:21
GeneralAntillesI know the feeling.21:22
GeneralAntillesI'm just glad video games aren't cheaper online.21:22
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lophytehuh, weird21:25
lophytexev doesn't even register hw key presses21:25
Takpupnik: lack of (even a plan for) multiplayer is kind of disappointing21:26
ScreamingGooge sez java on the N8x0 is going to gogogo, Just downloaded johnx's debian boot to try it out. Big mwah to lophyte for the bandwidth and a double "mwah" for johnx when he gets up over there in japan.21:26
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* joshin wonders what language ^ is.21:27
thpare there any repositories where i should try to get my - for example - game .debs into (like is the case with debian and ubuntu) or can i just publish the .deb on the web, what is more appropriate in maemo circles?21:27
pupnikTak yes.  But it's an enormously complex game, and there are a lot of bugs left to quash21:28
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Takhow's the speed?21:28
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lophytei wonder if there's a kernel module needed to handle the keyboard...21:29
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pupnikworst i've seen is 4-5 fps, generally walking around is around 16-2421:29
thpthanks for that link21:30
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lophytedamn, I thought buttons would be easy21:32
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unique311hellos and vanilla pudding icecream.21:35
Takpupnik: did openal build out-of-the-box for you?21:38
lophyteI get the feeling we need special kernel modules for sound and buttons21:40
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lophytepenguinbait, no amarok for kde, eh?21:43
lophytethat sucks :(21:43
lophytewhat's new in the tarballs?21:44
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penguinbait1 sec21:45
BlafaselAny idea if the N810 uses the same wifi driver as the N770/N800?21:45
VReI think 770 and 800 have different chip21:46
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VRe800 and 810 have same21:46
GeneralAntilles Actually, I think the chip in the N810 has a different model number21:47
BlafaselAccording to 770 and 800 use the same21:47
GeneralAntillesnot sure how different they are, though.21:47
BlafaselGeneralAntilles: Hmm.. Thanks21:47
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penguinbaitnot the same21:53
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penguinbaitfreakin ITT is a tablet killer21:53
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Takparticularly the new layout21:54
penguinb8whats changed21:55
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lophytepenguinb8, nice :)22:01
lophyteI should mirror that too, lol22:01
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lophytedo you need another mirror?22:01
lophytemy server is underused22:01
GeneralAntillesBandwidth burning a hole in your pocket, lophyte? :P22:02
lophyteyes :P22:02
lophyteI have 200GB/month and I don't even use 1% of it22:03
penguinb8I did 150GB between jan1 and jan1422:03
lophytelol nice22:03
lophytewell I can mirror if you want22:04
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penguinb8I am OK for now, I am looking to move it off to another hosting site, when I have people mirroring, its hard to get changes pushed out22:05
penguinb8I appreciate the offer though22:05
penguinb8wow, I am at 287GB since jan 122:06
lophytehehe, ok22:06
penguinb8who is your hosting through lophyte?22:06
penguinb8thanks, I will check them out22:07
penguinb8have you been there a while?22:07
lophytegreat service22:07
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lophyteI want an n810 :(22:08
penguinb8I am loving my 81022:08
penguinb8I have had it about a week22:09
penguinb8It's not luck, its hard work ;)22:09
b0unc3apt-get -d install tar <- work for someone ?22:10
penguinb8ok, maybe a little luck22:10
penguinb8another tar22:10
b0unc3penguinb8: gnu tar ?22:10
b0unc3penguinb8: ok, thank you22:11
penguinb8 also22:11
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pupnikTak, just finished a promo picture for GemRB on the tablets
hachidoes anyone have problems getting modest to open a second time without rebooting?22:22
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jeff1f's really cool22:22
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hachiis that running 18ish fps with the cpu pegged? or does it throttle it?22:23
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pupnikhachi, it pegs the cpu - sucks up all it can22:25
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glassdoes that gemrb run any games?(and which?22:27
Tama^2semi on topic question: do we have access to some DMA to copy stuff to (or inside) the framebuffer?22:27
pupnikbtw that's running in 800x600 and throwing away the bottom22:27
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pupnikglass: the project needs help!  Baldur's Gate 2 is best supported, other bioware games are also being implemented (icewind dale, etc)22:29
Takbioware games always (unnecessarily) eat 100% cpu IME22:29
glassi wish i had time. well. motivation more really22:29
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pupnikTama^2: you can see mplayer sources for fast framebuffer writes22:29
glassGEM just reminded me of the old gui system22:29
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pupnikhehe yeah the better windows22:30
Tama^2thanks pupnik , but is it still CPU driven or assisted somehow?22:30
* Tama^2 goes to look for the source..22:30
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pupnikTama^2: i'm not qualified to comment.  Older versions at least used Xsp pixel doubling to reduce needed bandwidth by 4x.22:36
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* lcuk has made it through another day22:37
lcukanyone wanna swap jobs. im looking for something where i can lounge on a beach or a skislope and just watch the world go by (but also get paid)22:38
czrhey lcuk22:38
lcukit got worse this afternoon gen22:38
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lcukhi cz22:38
GeneralAntillesYeah, we set your boss on you. :P22:38
lcukno the boss was busy lol - it just got more and more complicated22:39
* czr is having fun testing various preseed configs22:39
lcukmake sure you pull out before its too late.  child support is a dog22:39
penguinbaitlcuk, if I find two jobs like this, I will let you know about the second one22:39
lcuki once told my college professor i wanted a job where i could sit around and play all day.22:40
lcukwell, i got that job and have had it for the last few years, but days like today are a pain22:41
czrlcuk, not that kind of preseed :-)22:42
czrautomated ubuntu installs (debian uses preseed as well)22:42
czrit's quite crappy compared to kickstart, but still.22:42
czrmy day started at 8AM today and is still going on strong (10:43PM here).22:43
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* czr considers cooking some lunch at last22:43
lcukat least you sound like you are at home22:44
* mgedmin had lunch before coming in to work today at 6 PM22:44
Takyou got breakfast?!  lucky bastard22:44
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lcukthat preseed sounds like a reasonable thing to do.  does it mean you just plop the cd in and let it do its stuff22:45
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lcukthis vmware image i have , i gather i am ok to install a different ide in it and it wont get lost when i restart it will it (unless of course i restore from the zip)22:48
czrlcuk, you are free to install a different ide22:49
czralthough scsi would be better22:49
czrthe emulation layer is lighter with the scsi emu-driver.22:50
kalaugh. booting from MMC failed, tried to boot from flash and copy the flash to MMC, this failed in the middle and now I cannot boot from  flash anymore either. :(22:50
czrlcuk, actually preseed that I'm doing means booting a PC, pressing F12, and going to get some coffee while the system installs everything and reboots into a clean login manager.22:50
czrlcuk, no CDs involved. that'd be just silly.22:51
czrTak, no breakfast :-). unless you count a cup of green tea (drunk, not eaten) as breakfast :-)22:51
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pupnikif anybody visits the twin cities, one place to stop is 'The Tea Source' - one of the best tea shops in n. america22:52
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Takczr: it would be interesting to see somebody eat a cup of green tea22:53
czrhmm. interestingly enough, the preseed almost works. just asked about X resolution, but otherway no involvement..22:53
czrTak, especially if the cup wasn't paper :-)22:53
czrbut one never knows if someone here takes things too literally :-)22:54
GeneralAntillesTak, freeze it.22:54
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TakFreeze it and then cut it, and don't question me again!22:54
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lophyteis there not a simple usbnet changer app for os2008?22:59
penguinbaitI eat cups of green tea all the time, kinda dry though23:00
penguinbaitsmoking green tea, woohoo23:00
darkipyou "eat" cups of tea?23:00
penguinbaitthey are made of sugar23:01
darkipsounds yum...23:02
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lcukhow do i stop "find" from listing each folder its searched (but still list the results)23:23
penguinbaitfind . -type f23:24
penguinbaitfind . -type l23:24
penguinbaitfiles and links, no dirs23:24
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lcukbut still recursive?23:25
penguinbaityou want only files or only dir's23:26
czror just find . -not -type d23:26
lcukim trying to find xstream23:26
lcukany of files or folders23:26
lcukbut dont want to list all the folders its passed through23:26
penguinbaitfind . -name xstre*23:26
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czrbetter find . -iname "*xtrea*"23:27
penguinbaitiname ?23:27
czrand -type f in the end if you just want to list real files and not matching directory names23:27
czrcase insensitive match penguinbait23:27
lcukthanks :) - id got as far as:    find / xstream -type f23:27
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lcukactually, the iname param doesnt seem to work23:29
lcukname does though i think23:29
lophytealmost got buttons working in debian23:29
czrlcuk, you're running it on the device? it has a crippled version of find (busybox version)23:30
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lcukyes, on the device23:30
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penguinbaitfind . -name xstream23:31
penguinbaitfind . | grep -i xstream23:32
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lcukcool thanks :) (sorry mad dash was required)23:34
lcukis the "." current directory?23:34
lcukand i gather just replacing with / will run from base of the tree23:35
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penguinbaitfind / -name xstream23:35
penguinbaitfind /usr -name xstream23:35
penguinbaitor wherever23:35
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lcukwell as helpful as you have been (this will be most useful for other things) it still didnt find what i wanted..23:36
lophytethis should just be a matter of setting up an Xmodmap...23:36
lcukgstreamer isnt found anywhere :(23:36
* lcuk goes and tries another approach23:36
lcukare the linux user groups noobie friendly?23:39
jsmithlcuk: Every one I've ever been to has been23:39
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czrvery much so methinks23:39
lophyteerrghh.. no, its not as simple as an Xmodmap23:39
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lcukgood, then i think i shall go to my next local one and see what happens :)23:40
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jsmithlcuk: Cool... where are you located, may I ask?23:41
lcukmanchester - ive got a good linux friendly university nearby :)23:42
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penguinbaitlophyte what are you doing,ah er trying  to do?23:43
lophyteget the hardware buttons working in Debian on my n80023:44
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penguinbaitwhat is windowmanager?23:44
lophyteits not the wm though... X isn't configured properly23:44
lophytexev doesn't even pick up the keycodes23:44
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lophyte'showkey' shows them though23:45
lophyteI've got all the keycodes23:45
lophyteI just need to configure X to see them23:45
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penguinbaitXFCE is not a awindow manager though23:46
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penguinbaitI am wondering what window manager they used?23:47
fysais for xfce23:47
penguinbaitI used openbox,with xfce, all shortcuts were done through openbox23:48
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penguinbaitso it is xfwm4?23:48
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penguinbaitwhere can I find some info about that project?23:50
penguinbaitnot xfce, debian on tablet?23:50
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lophyteI wonder if you have to use Xomap instead of Xorg23:53
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lophyteoh wait23:54
lophyteit is using Xomap23:54
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* lcuk is now jealous about other linux user groups (too far to visit)23:56
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lcukthe manchester one is on uni grounds: no beer.  the london one is in a pub23:56
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GeneralAntillesThe wonders of the internet. ;)23:57
lcukthey have taken free as in beer to the extreme and damn it it should be free WITH beer23:58
darkip+ free beer ;)23:59
lcuk+hookers + black jack23:59
penguinbaitquim said my tablet was free as in beer, how do I get the free beer?23:59
darkipi don't know. but i want it.23:59

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