IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-01-22

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pupnikmichele_: did it work?00:04
michele_pupnik, don't know yet, I can't find xterm-enhanced00:05
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pupnikos2007 or os2008?  did you search on gronmeyer?00:06
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lcuk_2i just tried to install comic.ttf (yes i know its crap - thats the point i needed to see a difference) and ran "fc-cache -f" to refresh cache.  its listed as an available font in fbreader but it isnt working... just rebooting now00:11
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lcuk_2arghhhh my eyes00:14
lcuk_2after a reboot it works (unfortunately)00:14
michele_I want profont in xterm00:15
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lcuk_2it was just a check on the ttf instructions i spotted00:15
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michele_in xchat it works00:21
michele_without restarting00:21
* jsmith wanders away...00:22
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DaniloCesarSomeone goes to BossaConference?00:23
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maddlerhi michele_00:27
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michele_hi maddler00:39
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Tama^2: I followed the instruction to boot from mmc. It seems to get almost to the end of the boot process (boot slash with progress bar up to the end) and then reboots. Is it a known problem?00:40
Tama^2hoping some good soul may be listening00:41
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GeneralAntillesTry again, Tama^2.00:42
GeneralAntillesYou did something wrong.00:42
Tama^2from the wiki: 1 The first time I tried this on my N800 it led to continuous reboots 30-90 seconds after booting. Trying it a second time on a clean install (directly after flashing and erasing everything already on the device) worked fine.00:42
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Tama^2I could try again but I do not want to do a fresh install AGAIN...00:43
GeneralAntillesEh, you probably shouldn't have started in the first place, then. :P00:43
Tama^2the reason must be some kind of reference to the root device00:43
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michele_unf... nobody knows how to change the font in osso-xterm?00:47
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maddlermichele_: tried from settings?00:52
GeneralAntillesI wish I knew, michele_.00:52
maddlermenu -> tools -> settings00:52
GeneralAntillesMonaco 9 FTW. :D00:52
GeneralAntillesmaddler, it's only a few presets.00:52
michele_yes, but I have only the fixed choiches there...00:53
maddlercopy you new fonts in /home/user/.fonts :)00:53
pupnikbooo me.  not getting any profile info00:53
michele_I did00:53
maddlerit was working on os200700:53
j0ttmichele_: normal terminals support only fixed fonts ...00:53
GeneralAntillesmaddler, OS2007 was a different xterm. :P00:54
GeneralAntillesAn arguably less crappy xterm.00:54
michele_xchat sees them, the terminal not00:54
maddlerGeneralAntilles: I know...00:54
GeneralAntillesj0tt, not width.00:54
GeneralAntillesSelection, j0tt.00:54
maddlerGeneralAntilles: and I have to confess I prefer the 2007 unpatched one00:54
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j0tti have custom fonts in the osso-xterm settings ..00:54
michele_so no way general?00:54
GeneralAntillesThe OS2007 maemo hacker's version with the sidebar has been the best so far.00:55
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GeneralAntillesI'm sure there's a way, michele_, I just don't know it.00:55
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michele_maybe in gconf...00:55
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michele_yay :)01:03
* michele_ did it01:03
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GeneralAntillesMagic solution?01:03
maddlermagic wand? :D01:03
michele_gconftool --set /apps/osso/xterm/font_name --type string ProFontWindows01:03
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maddlerhmmm... I've just tried the .fonts stuff01:04
maddlerand it actually worked :)01:04
maddlersince it is not xterm related byt window manager01:05
michele_it's fontconfig01:05
lcuk_2eh? osso-xterm font is just tools/settings01:05
* lcuk_2 can see and use comic sans01:06
lcuk_2(os2008 though)01:06
maddleryup... but I mean... xterm only get available fonts from the system...01:06
* michele_ can't01:06
maddlerso once they are available its using them...01:06
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lcuk_2michele_, i did the following: copied ttf into system.    ran "fc-cache -f" to refresh cache.   fonts were then listed but not usable.   i rebooted and it works everywhere01:07
* lcuk_2 hates mx comic sans but its so distinctive its hard to miss01:08
GeneralAntilles /home/user/.fonts, lcuk_2?01:08
maddlercomic sans is the worst font I've ever seen! :D01:09
lcuk_2yes sorry thats where i put it.  i had to create the folder though01:09
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maddlerlcuk_2: true01:09
lcuk_2i followed the instructions for installing foreign language support fonts ( i used the hebrew instructions ... )01:09
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michele_well... it works just like gnome, and xchat can see the new font, the terminal can't01:10
lcuk_2have you rebooted?01:10
michele_I guess I should just try a reboot01:11
michele_but it shouldn't be needed01:11
lcuk_2lol - linux gets more and more like windows everyday01:11
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michele_no :)01:11
GeneralAntillesOh, joy . . . reboot loop.01:11
lcuk_2they didnt work for me in fbreader until after i rebooted ..01:11
michele_I'm sure it can be done withou01:11
johnxGeneralAntilles, install the recent rtcomm stuff?01:12
michele_it's rtcomm General01:12
lcuk_2prob can,. but is it worth a whole diagnostic session to work out when it should just work?01:12
GeneralAntillesYeah, but it booted fine just after I installed it. <_<01:12
maddlerGeneralAntilles: installed rtcom? :)01:12
johnxwell then why did you break it?01:12
* michele_ surrenders01:12
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maddlerGeneralAntilles: I am waiting for the next update before trying to install it again :)01:13
maddler2.1-15 looks broken... somehow...01:13
* GeneralAntilles goes to disable the watchdog.01:14
johnxI say this to everyone...but you should really just boot from SD01:14
GeneralAntillesMeh, too much damn work.01:15
GeneralAntillesI've had 2 reboot loops.01:15
maddleromap-wp caused to reboot as well... :(01:15
GeneralAntillesHardly worth the time investment for that.01:15
johnxone rsync, one quick initfs flash, one config file edit, and you're done01:15
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maddlerI had to disable that...01:16
GeneralAntillesjohnx, to a FAT32? :P01:16
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johnxwhy don't you run your cards as Ext3?01:16
johnxthe tablet seems to see them fine in 2008OS without extra effort01:17
michele_ok now that I have profont in xterm I can go to bed01:17
Tama^2johnx: yes .. "one quick..." IF it works :P01:17
GeneralAntillesBecause I put my cards in a lot of things without Ext3 support.01:17
johnx'night michele_01:17
johnxwindows and mac can support them01:18
johnxI guess cameras can be a problem01:18
johnxTama^2, did it not work for you?01:18
johnxeven if it fails all you have to do is *not turn the device off* and try again01:18
chrisakI had suuccessfully installed rtcomm a week or 2 ago, but am confused about where I should be watching re news of updates?01:19
Tama^2it boots from the mmc, gets up to the boot splash, progress bar is 100 and then gets stuck there01:19
Tama^2until the watchdog forces a reboot01:19
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johnxhmm, how did you copy the files to the card? rsync or tar?01:20
Tama^2chrisak: my update came up in the app manager01:20
Tama^2johnx: tar01:20
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johnxyou installed the gnu version of tar right? or did you use the builtin busybox tar?01:20
Tama^2not the builtin01:21
Tama^2I read the wiki and it mentioned it being an x86 elf bin...01:21
Tama^2somewhere on the wiki it says not to use the builtin tar or something like taht01:22
johnxbut what's this about x86 elf bin?01:23
chrisakTama: thank you, I just realized I had the req. respositories disabled.  Feeling foolish.01:23
Tama^2johnx: I must have mixed up two different pieces of info there, never mind :)01:23
johnxthat's ok. I just wanted to check that I wasn't just being dumb01:24
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pupnikI have not been able to detect a simultaneous dpad press and keyboard press on the N810.  Is this a hardware issue or a SDL problem?01:24
j0ttat least fn+dpad seem to work in general.01:26
Tama^2johnx: I am trying with rsync now01:27
pupnikhow do you detect that j0tt ?01:27
GeneralAntillesAlright, back up.01:28
j0ttpupnik: just via xkbd settings (bound to pgup/down and esc)01:28
johnxTama^2, I just used rsync, and it seems to work fine here01:28
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Tama^2well I will report back in 5 minutes or so :P01:29
johnxI missed getting the /dev directory the first time though01:29
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maddlerGeneralAntilles: with watchdog/apt-get --purge rtcom?01:29
GeneralAntilleswell, apt-get remove rtcomm*01:30
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maddlerdid you disabled both WDs?01:30
GeneralAntillesAnybody know how to turn off anti-aliasing in xterm?01:30
GeneralAntillesStarted with omap, didn't work01:30
GeneralAntillesthen added lifeguard01:30
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maddlerI don't think you can disable aa01:31
Tama^2GeneralAntilles: you are a big fan of meamo-mapper right? How do you get POI to download? it seems the stock configuration does not work01:31
GeneralAntillesThat sucks01:31
GeneralAntillesaa with a fixed-width looks stupid.01:31
jottGeneralAntilles: use a bitmap font01:31
* jott likes terminus01:32
GeneralAntillesTama^2, just download them? Not sure.01:32
GeneralAntillesjott, know of a ttf to bitmap converter? :D01:32
maddlerjott: I was just going to test it :D01:32
maddlerI use terminus on my laptop :D01:32
GeneralAntillesIf it's not Monaco 9, it's not worth it to me. :P01:32
jottGeneralAntilles: hm i wrote one but not for bdf :)01:32
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jottjust use terminus and you will be satisfied ;)01:33
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jottsmall ttf rendered with 1-bit looks crap in most cases01:34
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maddlerwill see if terminus is working :)01:37
AlphaLuxhas anyone had any luck adding a pipe (|) character to the toolbar shortcut in osso-xterm?01:38
maddlerGeneralAntilles: terminus looks great! :D01:38
aspiersAlphaLux: yeah I did01:38
maddlerscp ter-*8859-1.*
aspiersAlphaLux: use the X11 keysym 'bar'01:39
jottyeah, terminus is so nice on a high dpi display :)01:39
maddlerjott: indeed... I used to use Lucida Typewriter but Terminus looks better IMHO01:40
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NeoStrider_hello folks!01:42
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lcukguys, ive been looking to change my default start path for xterm (os2008) but am getting lost.  is there a way to do it?01:45
AlphaLuxmight be the simplest way01:45
AlphaLuxlet me try it01:46
NeoStrider_hey guys, besides the kbd and the internal storage, is there any big diference between n800 and n810?01:46
lcuka tiny gps built in01:47
GeneralAntillesTransflective screen.01:47
maddlerand the price as well :)01:47
lcukcool factor01:47
lcuksingle direction camera facing user01:48
lcukinstead of rotatable on 80001:48
maddleryes... size is much better... it makes the device feel more comfortable in your hands...01:49
lcukauto brightness adjustment01:49
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GeneralAntilles^ which is more of a liability.01:49
maddlerand also about the keyboard... I only realized how useful it is after a few days of intensive use01:49
maddlerI'm using n810 a lot more than n80001:49
lcukive even stopped asking for a tab key now i can  dev from big pc and just got on with using it01:50
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maddlerI miss a ' key :)01:51
* lcuk thinks ssh and scp are amazing01:51
maddlerbut can't find the right key to replace :)01:51
maddlerlcuk: and screen? ;)01:51
lcuk' is a direct key on here01:51
AlphaLuxafter hacking the psp forever, and trying to get it to do what I want, the internet tablet is awesome01:51
lcukno, the screen on 810 is a pleasure to use01:52
maddlerno... I mean Screen :)01:52
maddlernot the LCD :)01:52
lcukwell then i havent been given the pleasure, what is screen01:53
AlphaLuxit's great, allows you to have multiple terminals in one terminal...kind of hard to explain01:53
maddlerAlphaLux: right01:53
AlphaLuxthink of tabs in firefox01:53
maddlerbut in txt mode :)01:53
AlphaLuxbut for shells01:53
maddlerit changed the way I connect remotely :)01:54
AlphaLuxand you can logout and keep them all running, great for servers and remote stuff01:54
lcuki am ahppy with 1 for now, still need training wheels :)01:54
maddlerI only ssh to my "proxy" and then use screen to jump to other systems :)01:54
GeneralAntillesDetatching and re-attaching is great.01:54
jottscreen is great! pimp your .screenrc now ;)01:54
maddlerGeneralAntilles: as well as sharing :)01:54
AlphaLuxyou can share?01:54
AlphaLuxdidn't know that01:55
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GeneralAntillesscreen is probably one of the most under-utilized pieces of software on the planet.01:55
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NeoStrider_great to know about all that stuff ,folks01:56
AlphaLuxjust because people don't know about it I think01:56
NeoStrider_thank you very much01:56
NeoStrider_but the N800 seems perfect to mee01:56
pupnikN810 can be dangerous.01:56
jottheh yeah for example, i display free disk space and network traffic in the screen statusline ;)01:56
lcukalpha, any luck with default path or has all this fapping about maemo took you offtrack01:56
maddlerGeneralAntilles: yup... until you don't discover it! and then you cannot survive w/o it!01:56
NeoStrider_pupnik: great to see you!01:56
pupnikI find myself editing scripts/configs and doing linuxy command-line stuff while walking around01:56
pupnikwelcomeback NeoStrider_ :)01:56
maddlerjott: as well as CPU01:56
AlphaLuxlcuk, I sent you like 3 msgs you didn't get them I suppose?01:56
jottyeah.. sure cpu too ;)01:56
aspiersscreen is great01:57 cant just stop being a hacker while in the middle of the street01:57
AlphaLuxpupnik, yeah I hear you01:57
aspiersI have a hack so that Ctrl-PageUp reverse searches for my prompt, so I can see where the output of the last command started01:57
aspiersbindkey "ESC[5\^"  eval copy "stuff kk?---------(\015\^jlllll"01:57
lcukahhh xchat on 8x0 cant see other chans/msgs01:57
AlphaLuxah, haven't tried xchat yet01:57
GeneralAntillesWhat, lcuk?01:58
* aspiers is trying ERC01:58
pupnikclever aspiers01:58
lcukts nice but i didnt know i was missing stuff01:58
GeneralAntillesthe +/- keys cycles through tabs in xchat.01:58
lcukgen, i have made it almost fullscreen and removed chan list from display.  it doesnt flash anywhere01:58
pupnik  title says it all - adding pipe and tab to the N810 keyboard01:58
GeneralAntillesAh, right.01:59
aspierspupnik: I also wrote a patch so that 'number +1' moves a window right in the window list, and -1 for left01:59
GeneralAntillesSet the toolbar notifications.01:59
AlphaLuxlcuk, put in brief, you can create a file called .profile in your home directory, that script will be executed every time you start a shell01:59
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lcukin which i can cd to where i need.  thanks01:59
lcuki will do it in a bit02:00
AlphaLuxno problem02:00
lcuk810 keyboard, bright in places, dark in others.  some of the blue chrs are not fully visible.  damn annoying02:01
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lcukright, vanishing for a bit.  thanks02:02
pupnikhow many people here want to donate to zodttd to help him buy a N800?02:02
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GeneralAntillesWhat is zodttd gonna give me in return?02:03
NeoStrider_pupnik: Im in need of some donations too ;-P02:03
AlphaLuxI almost broke down and got the n800, but I held out until after Christmas for the 81002:03
pupnikGeneralAntilles: a playstation in your pocket?02:03
NeoStrider_any1 from canada here?02:03
pupnikthey use computers in canada?02:04
AlphaLuxNeoStrider_, Ohio, pretty close, but not02:04
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GeneralAntillesThey have internet in Canada?02:04
maddlerwell... we have it in Italy... :D02:04
maddlerwell... almost :D02:04
NeoStrider_in Brazil too =-P02:04
GeneralAntillesWait, I did that wrong. They have electricity in Canada?02:04
NeoStrider_maddler:  we have something we call internet...if its the same internet you guys have,  I dont know02:05
elbbe nice to Canada02:05
elbtheir dollar is worth more than hours02:05
NeoStrider_GeneralAntilles:  so , asking about N800 availability in canada may be worthless?02:05
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elboh wait, no, they're below parity again02:06
elbI say they get a bye until it's under $0.9002:06
GeneralAntillesI say it's time to annex.02:06
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|tbb|what do i need tor run dbus-send commands from commandline, any additional packets02:09
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NeoStrider_I just bought some canadian dollars02:11
NeoStrider_they're more expensive02:11
NeoStrider_so I plan to get a N800 when I get there02:12
NeoStrider_but its getting hard to device between N800+Eee PC or N81002:12
elbthe current exchange rate says US$1 = CA$1.0302:12
pupnikmy eyes keep trying to focus on the darn idnt xephyr background02:13
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pupnikyou visiting canada for fun or business NeoStrider_ ?02:13
NeoStrider_student exchange program02:14
NeoStrider_improve my english skills02:14
NeoStrider_and maybe look for some university to have a sandwich master graduation02:14
NeoStrider_(unoficial mission in canada: get a N8x0 hehe)02:14
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AlphaLuxanyone find a ruby package for chinook? I see only bora on garage02:17
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pupnikcongrats NeoStrider_  :)02:17
NeoStrider_now I want some opinion from you guys?02:18
NeoStrider_s/?/: ;-)02:18
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NeoStrider_about First Person Shooter control on the devices02:18
NeoStrider_what you guys think it should be like?02:18
GeneralAntillesSee Quake 2, it's fantasmagastic.02:18
AlphaLuxdamn, I'm so used to kbd, would be hard without a mouse02:19
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pupnikever since pipeline implemented my stylus control idea, it rules :)02:19
pupnikhe did a great job - looking with the stylus works extremely well.  on the n810 the problem is jumping and shooting while strafing/moving02:20
AlphaLuxah yeah I guess you could think of something like the nintendo ds02:20
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NeoStrider_I cant see it... I just have a 77002:21
pupnikfor me, almost any action game is out of the question with these controls.  strategy / puzzle / rpg is fine tho02:22
pupnikNeoStrider_: his quake1 runs ok on 77002:22
NeoStrider_where to get it!?!?!?!02:22
pupnik  Quake 1 for 800 and 77002:23
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maddlerok... time to go play Advance Wars on my nds! :D02:31
pupnikwhat the heck... i don't even REMEMBER creating autotools / configure for this game02:31
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GeneralAntillesI warned you about coding drunk, pupnik.02:33
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XamuskNeoStrider_, you're from Brazil?02:34
NeoStrider_GeneralAntilles:  drunk codding rox!02:35
NeoStrider_Xamusk: yes!02:35
NeoStrider_Xamusk: Rio de Janeiro02:35
NeoStrider_and u?02:35
XamuskNeoStrider_, me too :D02:35
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XamuskI'm scrambling to get myself an N8X0 too02:38
NeoStrider_Xamusk:  "qual bairro" ?02:39
XamuskNeoStrider_, botafogo, you?02:40
NeoStrider_Xamusk: do you have any project?02:40
NeoStrider_(are you a developer?)02:40
Xamusksort of :D02:40
Xamuskamateur stuff02:40
Xamusknothing really useful02:41
NeoStrider_show me =-)02:41
XamuskI've got nothing online02:42
Xamuskby amateur I mean home stuff02:42
NeoStrider_but what is it?02:42
NeoStrider_mine is amateur too02:42
NeoStrider_Im (still) working on a armagetron-like game02:42
XamuskI was doing a visualization software for my wife some days ago, but stopped it02:43
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Xamuskby the way, I don't use maemo, as I don't have a N8X0 yet02:43
Xamuskthey're too expensive here02:43
NeoStrider_1000 reais02:43
NeoStrider_way expensive02:44
Xamuskwhoa, I haven't found for less than 130002:44
Xamuskanyway, 1000 is still to much for me now02:44
NeoStrider_got a 770 from developer device program, about 2 years ago02:44
NeoStrider_but I need a newer device02:44
NeoStrider_the N8x0 are way diferent02:44
NeoStrider_and my focus is mostly maemo-centric02:45
NeoStrider_but I've done other stuff too02:45
NeoStrider_what is that vis-software you've done? 3D?02:45
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XamuskI tried to use pygtk and soya02:46
NeoStrider_Im working on 3D for mobile for some time02:46
NeoStrider_I did my own engine in C++ ;-)02:46
Xamusktoo bad nokia doesn't have acceleration hardware02:47
elbI think it does, actually02:47
elbbut no drivers02:47
Xamuskanyway, now I'm a bit more focused on electronics02:47
Xamuskwhat's a hw worth if there are no drivers, specially not even from the manufacturer02:47
NeoStrider_my fun is actully reinventing the wheel02:48
pupnikwoo got my first profile data out in 2008.  bizarre the .gcda needs to write to /scratchbox/ccache/tmp.hash.maemo-sdk.23020.gcda file02:48
pupnikso that dir needs to be created on the device and user-writeable02:49
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XamuskNeoStrider_, I even got someone to sell me a used N800, but have no way to ship it from the USA to me02:50
NeoStrider_but you have anything in mind for the devices? or just its coolness factor that appels to you?02:51
pupniki think ppl into 3d should definitely look at NeoStrider_ 's stuff :)02:52
XamuskNeoStrider_, first I want an eBook reader, then a schedule, then comes the coolness factor to be able to make my own apps for it (specially since it supports python), then I would like to learn usb to use the device as a controller in host mode02:52
NeoStrider_pupnik:  not that much..Im still researching a new algorithm for my grad thesis, so things change too fast in my code =-)02:52
NeoStrider_but it has a advantage over other algorithms ,like BSP and portals...Im lazy, so Im researching an algorithm that must be easy to code02:53
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XamuskNeoStrider_, computer science?02:55
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NeoStrider_and u?02:55
Xamuskelectronic engineering, IME02:55
NeoStrider_way cool!02:55
kvin_anyone u know any phone help channel?02:55
kvin_anyone know phone help channel?02:56
NeoStrider_kvin_: ???02:56
pupniki should set-up a pay-channel on my home line02:56
glasswhat kind of help?   and repeating stuff is not a good way to get help02:56
kvin_i mean a help channel02:56
kvin_for phones02:56
XamuskNeoStrider_, last year I went to a symposium in UFF02:56
kvin_help for error02:57
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NeoStrider_Xamusk: hummm...what was it02:57
kvin_technical problem02:57
XamuskNeoStrider_, it was about automation02:57
NeoStrider_I cant really remember..but it must be from the Engeenering School02:58
Xamuskyes it was02:58
NeoStrider_Computers Institute is more theorical02:58
XamuskNeoStrider_, do you take classes from prof Nelson?02:58
NeoStrider_but I got my hands dirty on a robotic arm + 8051 ;-)02:58
NeoStrider_not really02:58
XamuskI think he teaches Calculus there02:58
XamuskNeoStrider_, a robotic arm? cool... I'm still learning electronics, and I'm using avr at home02:59
NeoStrider_I had classes with prof John Reed02:59
NeoStrider_do you know him?03:00
nelsonXamusk: I do?03:00
Xamuskbut I'm still perfecting the methods to make PCBs03:00
Xamusknelson, another nelson?03:01
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nelsonwell, I'm the first (and best, if I may say) russ nelson on the 'net.03:01
nelsonAll others are imposters.03:01
NeoStrider_nelson:  I guess you dont teach calculus back in Brazil, Right?03:01
nelsongoogle for "russ nelson"03:01
nelsonerrr, no, that would be someone else.  But it does help explain why Brazilians always expect 'nelson' to speak portuguese03:02
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NeoStrider_nelson is very common name among us03:02
NeoStrider_but as a first name03:02
nelsonyep, I had already figured that out.   Nao~ falo portuguese.03:03
Xamuskthat would be "não falo português"03:03
NeoStrider_Xamusk:  give him a break...he does know we dont speak spanish...that's almost a miracle!03:04
XamuskNeoStrider_, I know, but I'm picky ;)03:05
nelsonXamusk: oh, yeah, typing portuguese with a portuguesean keyboard, that's almost like cheating.03:05
NeoStrider_try coding a college work on a english kbd ;-P03:05
nelsonNeoStrider_: I thought all Brazilians spoke Spanish ..... too.03:05
NeoStrider_Xamusk:  you use GL, right03:06
Xamuskactually, I hate brazillian keyboards... I have mine set as international english, and all the accents and special keys are in other places, but I type without looking at the keyboard03:06
NeoStrider_nelson:  we came from the portuguese, not the spanish people ;-)03:06
elbXamusk: amen03:06
Xamuskand I do speak a little spanish 3:-)03:06
elbI mean, I don't know what a brazilian keyboard layout is03:06
nelsonNeoStrider_: yeah, but you're surrounded by people who hablan espan~ol.03:06
elbbut I have *never* seen a keyboard layout which wasn't strictly less reasonable than US int'l03:06
NeoStrider_elb: not that diferent...but we have ç as a key after L03:07
elb(at least, for a programmer)03:07
nelsonelb: try typing on a french keyboard.03:07
nelsonelb: swedish is a little better, but not much.03:07
NeoStrider_nelson:  not really...I indeed forgot the spanish I learn't at school for the lack of pratice03:07
Xamuskmy laptop came with a "brazillian" keyboard, but the darn thing skipped a key and I would have to use AltGr to type a slash, which would be awful for a linux user03:07
elbI've only used .uk, .au, .jp, and .ru keyboards for any period of time -- they're all entirely unreasonable03:07
nelsonturkish is REALLY bad, because their 'i' is an undotted i, which is a completely different character than 0x69.03:08
elbfortunately, if the physical keys are in reasonable places, xkb to the rescue ;-)03:08
Xamusknelson, what about dvorak?03:08
elb*un*fortunately, on a lot of keyboards the Enter key is entirely ridiculous03:08
nelsontheir dotted i is down below the comma key.  hopeless for typing ASCII.03:09
nelsonXamusk: not clear that dvorak is an improvement.  I type pretty darned fast on a Kinesis Essential keyboard.03:09
NeoStrider_model M rules heheh03:10
nelsonkeys are in straight lines, dished, and at shoulder width.  common keys are underneath the thumbs.03:10
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NeoStrider_hey...wrong window to type CTRL+W heheh03:10
nelsonand then there's the Chordite model I'm designing.
ds3is there an up to date page for adding PAN support to OS2008?03:10
NeoStrider_I KNOW YOUR BLOG!!!03:11
NeoStrider_it rocks!03:11
NeoStrider_have seen it before03:11
* nelson blushes.03:11
nelsonyeah, it's in
* NeoStrider_ wants that cool kbd03:12
nelson(which is great to read)03:12
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nelsonNeoStrider_: yeah, they're STILL not in production.  But I'm getting there.03:12
NeoStrider_can I purchase one hahah?03:12
nelsonwell, yeah, once I get the design right, so that it's 1) adjustable and yet 2) sturdy.03:13
elbdoes it blow up?03:14
nelsonNo, it's only going to have AAA batteries.03:16
nelsonLittle potential for explosion there.03:16
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elbman, you led me on03:16
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elbwith the name03:16
nelsonahhhhh, it's a chording keyboard, and it's small, so -ite.  chord-ite.03:16
nelsonNot cordite, chordite.03:17
elb(right, I get it -- Cordite is a form of smokeless gunpowder used by the British in the early 20th century)03:17
bkruseelb: from pidgin?03:18
elbbkruse: yes03:19
bkruseelb: I did not know you helped on the maemo project also. Did you port pidgin? I know you from the pidgin community03:19
bkruseI did the click-to-dial asterisk stuff with pidgin03:20
ds3cordite keyboards?03:20
bkruseyou helped me :]03:20
elbI don't really, yet03:20
elband no, I didn't port Pidgin, _|Nix|_ did03:20
nelsonds3: hehe, no, chordite.03:20
bkrusegotcha, well, good seein you :]03:20
elbI have Big Plans for maemo development03:21
elbbut I have big plans for a lot of things03:21
elband little time ;-)03:21
Xamuskhow does that cordite thing communicates? bluetooth?03:21
bkruseelb: same03:21
bkrusemine is the iax client for maemo03:21
lcuk_2nelson, reading your latest entry on the chordite thing where you don't see viable method for monitoring the tendons, make a note that people wear a wrist watch every day which presses on just the area you would need to monitor.03:21
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bkruseelb: let me know if you ever need some help and if I have some free time. Pidgin is up there no my fav projects :]03:22
elbglad to hear it03:22
lcuk_2it looks good by the way, i have often wondered if i could make use of some kind of chording keyboard but never had the motivation to actually build one.  props to you :)03:22
nelsonlcuk_2: been playing with them for at least twenty years now.03:23
nelsonlcuk_2: they're specialized thingies, so  you need the right circumstances to justify the learning curve.03:24
lcuk_2i dont doubt it.  i put it on the same curve as dvorak.  looks impossible at first and you wonder how people could swap, but once you make the jump you wonder how you coped before.  (still qwerty for myself though..)03:25
ds3no one has looked at PAN on OS2008?03:25
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NeoStrider_cya folks!03:29
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lcuk_2ncya neo03:30
XamuskI would like to try dvorak, but I probably won't03:30
nelsonlcuk_2: it's not as bad as it looks.  The more common keys are easier to type.03:30
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lcuk_2the problem with any none standard keyboard is working on different desktops and having to change perspective and typing stance for each03:31
Xamuskfirst because I have never seen one selling around here, then I use a laptop and I don't like putting sticks in keyboards, and last, everyone would be different, so I would still have to retain my typing skills to use other's computers03:31
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Xamuskeven N8X0 has a qwerty keyboard03:32
lcuk_2its bad enough walking to peoples desktops who use switched mouse buttons let alone a whole keyboard03:32
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lcuk_2Xamusk, it has a partial qwerty keyboard ;)03:32
*** tchan has joined #maemo03:32 used to the mouse thing a long time ago03:33
johnxthe only thing that still throws me off is the left-handed people who keep right-handed buttons03:33
lcuk_2im a left hander but for sheer ease of use i havent switched the buttons03:33
johnxheh, well that's fine as long as I don't have to fix your computer03:34
lcuk_2the mouse is on my LHS but the buttons are standard03:34
johnxI can use a mouse left handed ok for a short period of time as long as the buttons are setup for left handed use03:34
lcuk_2i sit with first 2 fingers on left button most of the time and just shift index finger over if i need to03:34
lcuk_2index finger for scroll wheel rocks :)03:35
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johnxI use a mouse three fingered anyways. X11 wants all the buttons it can get it's hands on. :)03:36
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lcuk_2i knew one guy who turned the mouse around, with wire and buttons towards him03:36
johnxif I had to use his computer I'd probably take one look at his setup and decide I was better off using the keyboard alone03:37
lcuk_2nelson, don't ever try to get on a plane with this mod in place:
Xamuskonce I used the mac's mouse... it's very hard to someone who isn't used to it03:38
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johnxthe new mighty mouse with the spinny-scroll-nubbin thing aren't bad at all03:38
johnxgreat for graphics stuff03:38
johnxI actually wanted one for a while to use in Linux...but they die really quick03:39
* lcuk_2 still prefers male mice03:39
lcuk_2my mice have to have balls.03:39
johnxI remember the first-gen iMac mice though...those were fantastically bad03:39
nelsonlcuk_2: have already done so.  :-)03:40
EsworpI never had issues with those mice.03:40
lcuk_2nelson, yikes, in this country (UK) you would probably be arrested03:40
EsworpDoes anyone Use the hWR?03:42
johnx*crickets chirp*03:43
johnxI think that's a no...03:44
lcuk_2Henley Women's Regatta?03:44
EsworpMan the hwr stinks on this thing.03:44
elbjohnx: the hockey puck?03:44
elbthose things sucked bad03:45
johnxelb, yeah, that one. *shudders*03:45
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lcuk_2>>>>>>> handwriting recognition (HWR) <<<<<<<<<<<  ding ding ding03:45
EsworpThe /only/ hwr worth myy time was the newton mp2000.03:46
lcuk_2jees, thats a really uncommon TLA, right Esworp to answer your question, no03:46
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lcuk_2i tried to configure it, but it would not let me adjust it how i wanted03:46
johnxI got used to grafiti (the old one) on my visor, but since then I haven't bothered03:46
johnxand learning how to use grafiti actually did make my normal handwriting worse03:48
lcuk_2i wanted to map "t" to how i type it, but it kept mapping it as "L".  i unticked all variations of "L" and tried to teach it "t" and it told me it was too close to "L" even though i unmapped it.03:48
lcuk_2i havent been back since03:48
* lcuk_2 crosses his "t" at end of word but done as a curve, but draws l's as a straight line.03:49
johnxI bet I could teach it the original grafiti but my touch screen kind of acts up and I don't have a stylus for it anyways :/03:50
EsworpHas there ever been any serious work towards lefty-ifying the n800?03:50
johnxEsworp, you mean hardware or software?03:51
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johnxnot that I've heard03:51
lcuk_2Esworp, we are lefties in a right handed world.03:52
johnxI'm a righty but I end up just using my thumbs on the screen03:52
lcuk_2i want scrollbars over on the left and it would be a bodgy but would help with lots of things03:52
EsworpIt'd be nice to put the left side bar on the right, etc.03:53
johnxI saw a gtk theme that did that actually03:53
lcuk_2thats not such a problem for me - i like it where it is03:53
johnxa looooong time ago03:53
lcuk_2john there were problems with it, i think the bug report is still open regarding it03:53
johnxfor maemo? or you mean gtkstep?03:54
lcuk_2its gotta lot of parameters mainly related to bidi printing i think03:54
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lcuk_2gtk in general i tihnk03:54
johnxthis was for gtk 1.x03:54
johnxso maybe the unicode stuff added in gtk 2.x made things harder03:54
lcuk_2yer it automatically gets switched with the right 2 left script03:55
lcuk_2so what do you do in this instance? switch the switch?03:55
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jperryanyone know a repository where i can find an os2007 version of gpsd?03:56
jperryi'm playing with the skyhook appi03:56
jperryerr skyhookwireless api03:56
johnxthere are some gpsd related things at least03:56
jperryi think their tool wpsd is meant to talk to it - but there is no doc on this i can find03:57
jperryjohnx: thanks I will loook there03:57
jperrywhat is osso-gpsd?03:57
johnxno idea03:57
johnxit came up in a search on gronmayer03:57
jperryahh ok03:58
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pupnikThis might be a good time to mention that the wiki can use contributors.04:01
lcuk_2indeed it would pupnik.  do i have to become a member04:03
* jsmith wanders away...04:03
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lcuk_2time for sleep. nite all04:05
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johnx'night lcuk_204:05
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Solarionanyone else still getting the "gift certificate has no balance" messages when using their discount code (in the US)?04:09
* Solarion wants to grab his before they go out of stock again. :(04:10
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shackands3: I've used PAN on os200804:14
Xamusknelson, do you use the PCB software?04:15
nelsonXamusk: yes.04:15
Xamusknelson, do you have some library or something?04:16
XamuskI've tried to use it, but I found that the component library is lacking04:16
nelsonXamusk: amazing how you go straight for the weak oint of PCB.04:16
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nelsonXamusk: I think the "right" thing to do is create a relatively small set of parts (like 200) which are all pre-specified, with schematic symbols and PCB footprints.04:17
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Xamuskwell, I've tried it once, and I'm using eagle, which has the most incredible library I've seen04:17
nelsonThen design a set of circuits which use them.04:17
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nelsonYeah, I'm sure.  TONS and TONS of Open Source people use the freeware Eagle.04:18
XamuskI've tried some other tools, like kicad, geda and stuff04:19
Xamuskbut I didn't like any of them04:21
pupnikProject seeks author:  A tracker/composition/beatbox/recorder tool for tablets04:21
pupnikProject seeks author: A lightweight powerful paint program (mtpaint!) for tablets04:21
oil_keu. I'm becoming an fan for maemo mapper04:22
oil_it did found the way back home from the other side of the city04:22
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Xamuskbluetooth modules are incredibly expensive here04:24
johnxwhat kind of bluetooth modules?04:25
johnxalso, where is "here"?04:25
XamuskI mean bt modules to make custom electronics04:27
Xamuskand here is Brazil04:27
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johnxI don't know if this helps you...but I remember on the zaurus forums ( someone had found that many normal USB bluetooth modules actually had a serial interface internally04:29
johnxand he dug one up and soldered it onto some spare GPIO pins on his zaurus04:29
johnxnot quite as simple as all that I'm sure04:29
* johnx doesn't know much about electronics04:29
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XamuskI don't have a zaurus04:42
Xamuskthe easiest thing I can manage to find for a reasonable price is a bluetooth usb dongle04:43
Xamuskvery small and probably hard to hack04:43
johnxI was just offering the zaurus hack as an example.04:44
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Xamuskyes, it was a good advice04:45
Xamuskmaybe I can mod something04:45
johnxlet me find the link04:45
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Xamuskbut I can no way find a zaurus around04:47
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johnxyou should be able to use with anything that has a serial far as I understand04:56
johnxand here's the link, but it's a long thread:
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pupnik   <<< A very good summary of building/packaging for ITOS / maemo.  Quick overview of autotools (autoconf, automake) with templates, as well as overview of packaging and menu entries.  Best summary I've found!05:06
pupnikkeywords ^^^^ maemo noobs getting started howto compile scratchbox applications ITOS packaging dpkg-buildpackage05:07
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trevarthanhello. is there anything out there that will turn a maemo touch screen into a remote mouse?05:11
trevarthankinda like a wireless wacom tablet.05:12
johnxsomething like vnc or rdesktop?05:12
trevarthankinda like synergy, but with relative mouse movement instead of absolute.05:12
pupnikyou could hack synergy, run the server on the tablet and client on your PC05:12
trevarthanI envision a white screen where you do mouse input. hold down a button (top left button) for a click05:14
pupnikspeaking of which, would someone build synergy for os2008?05:14
pupniksomeone not me, that is05:14
pupnikquicksynergy or sumat05:14
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XamuzkI'm back05:16
Xamuzkconnection problems05:16
trevarthanyeah, a synergy server would make the most sense, wouldn't it?05:16
trevarthanI think I'll give that a try.05:17
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|Ri hope mulliner gets his n810 soon, as iphome would be useful ;)05:38
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trevarthanerg. no gpg in chinook scratchbox?06:10
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trevarthannm. osso-gnupg06:11
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dospodsupp peeps06:57
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dospodanybody using kde06:58
dospodits rather nice06:59
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johnxI have something bigger in mind. I want full Debian. :)07:00
opengeekhello, I'm trying to download the mediahandler-proxy sample from the ITVC tutorial and the link seems to be broken, anyone know who to contact?07:00
johnxdospod, well it already boots...07:01
dospodi dont see why nobodys released a diff distro for the tablet07:01
johnxopengeek, sorry. I don't know who.07:01
johnxdospod, because there's lots of stuff that is hard to get working07:01
dospodcouldnt be too hard to build a custom binstallable bin07:01
johnxit is07:01
dospodi dont see any problems07:02
dospodunless maemo happens to be semi closed source07:02
johnxit is07:02
dospodthen i guess drivers would be an isussue with the tablets07:03
dospoddamn nokia07:03
johnxthe difficulty I'm running into is that I want it to be dual bootable with maemo so I can't change the kernel too much from what nokia hands out07:04
johnxstill, hopefully I can get a console at least07:04
johnxI still don't know why xomap won't run though07:04
dospodi would leave the kernal the same07:04
johnxI really, really want a physical console07:05
johnxas far as I can tell the nokia kernel doesn't support that07:05
dospodbut make new startup scripts07:05
skiburI on a movie!!!07:05
skiburit called "The SheLL"07:05
skiburanybody wanna watch the trailer?07:06
johnxskibur, really?07:06
johnxdospod, so far I can: boot, use usb networking, access the SD card, access internal flash07:06
dospodim bout to leave07:06
skiburI'm the guy with Sun Glasses07:06
skiburIf you wanna watch the Whole movie let me know07:07
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* johnx watches trailer07:07
skiburI my nokia N800 comes out !!!07:09
skiburits about a computer virus gone organic!07:12
johnxaaah, I wasn't quite understanding what was going on07:13
fysathere any way to share an itunes library with an IT?07:13
skiburwanna watch it?07:13
skiburits 20mins long in 3 parts07:13
johnxthanks. I'll look at it later07:13
skiburyoutube limits07:14
skiburo ok07:14
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skiburI'm the guy in the Sun Glasses with the Long hair07:22
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DeLe0nany news of the US discount codes?07:28
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ds3shackan: do the OS2007 instruction with dummy0 work?08:06
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Luriaanyone recall the name of the apple II screensaver on debian?08:21
Luriathat might be it, thanks08:22
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Luriathinking it would look nice on my eee08:23
johnxif I remember it's actually vt10x compatible now. heh.08:23
johnxyou could use it as your shell. :)08:23
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Luriathere is something very oldschool about the eee08:25
Lurialike the huge frame:lcd lid ratio08:25
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* johnx wants that screensaver running on an N800 now08:27
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Luriathat shouldnt be too hard08:27
johnxunless I do it the hard way :)08:28
shack008ngood way to waste battery power :P08:29
Luriaok, yes, then it would be hard08:29
johnxshack008n, it should be easy enough to only start screensaver on AC08:30
johnxas long as I'm going to do it the hard way anyways08:30
Luriasigh, love compiz.08:30
johnxit sure did get a lot better in the last year or so08:31
johnxit's actually useful instead of just pretty08:31
shack008njohnx: how 'hard' ?08:31
johnxwell, there's a debian package for xscreensaver, so I might as well just get debian running so I don't have to compile xscreensaver from source08:32
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Luriajohnx, its in -extras08:34
Luriai believe08:34
johnxwell, that's like cheating :(08:34
Luriabtw, compiz makes the eee useful08:34
Luriaits amazing how usable 4-6 apps are on a 800x480 screen08:35
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Luriacrap, i should install defcon08:36
Luriaalmost forgot i have a license for that08:36
johnxwish me luck, flashing a custom kernel O_o08:37
Luriago with god08:37
Luriaand grub08:37
Luriayes, yes, i know08:38
johnxactually, I'd like my n800 to stay with me. :)08:38
Luriai find i hose my xubuntu install more than my n80008:39
johnxyou haven't been trying hard enough, obviously08:40
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johnxinteresting, failing to flash at all :/08:43
Luriathats the idiot flash preventing feature :-)08:44
johnxI wonder if I did something wrong in my kernel compile08:44
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johnxor if my usb stuff on the desktop is acting up08:44
Luriait might be the patch /dev/random you used08:45
johnxdd if=/dev/random of=/kernel-image.bin bs=1024 count=408:46
johnxis that not right?08:46
Luriasounds like it08:47
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Luriai prefer the of=/dev/sda1 style, but i always liked hammers too.08:47
johnxyeah, nothing like the direct approach08:48
Luriaflashing yet?08:49
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Luriahmmm the unionfs approach of the eee almost makes it parent friendly08:50
johnxusb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable08:50
Luriaany related dmesg output?08:51
johnxone sec08:51
Luriabtw, the screensaver was apple ][, but also in the same -extras deb08:51
Luriasigh, synaptic is the enemy of slim systems... its like a freaking candy store08:52
johnxwith a "free" sign out front08:52
Luriaworse yet, i forget what i install if there is no menu item08:53
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johnxweird, dmesg says nothing about it08:58
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Luriayou should have a message from simply plugging in the device08:59
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johnxlet me try again, my dmesg is pretty crowded08:59
johnxjust the normal stuff...09:01
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Luriaright, but you should have a message at the end of the buffer09:02
johnxall i have is what it found when I plugged in the device, nothing about the transfer failing09:03
johnxbut I think I know what it is09:03
johnxI tried flashing vmlinux from the kernel-source dir, when I should have flashed zImage09:05
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oilhmm. what's this cx3110x: WARNING TX dropped.  I try to scp files to the router. first 10-20 MB goes well, and then scp says 'stalled'09:06
Luriajohnx, sounds right09:08
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rm_youjohnx: lol....09:09
rm_youjohnx: I am experimenting with those >_> the PopupWindow one basically looks like mine but behaves more like a real popup... Though I'm hoping I can manipulate the menu one to do my bidding!09:10
rm_youjohnx: so I met Kit today. >_>09:11
rm_youjohnx: not like... ACTUAL Kit.09:11
rm_youBut she's basically the same person, minus about 4 years >_>09:11
rm_youit's crazy. she even looks eerily identical09:12
johnxLuria, it flashed09:12
johnxI think it booted too, but it didn't do what I wanted :/09:12
Luriahalf yay09:12
rm_youanyways, sleep time. night09:12
johnx'night rm_you09:12
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truentbewm bewm bewm09:17
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JaffaMorning, all10:56
Tama^2[   10.445312] menelaus 1-0072: Setting voltage 'VMMC' to 3000 mV (reg 0x0a, val 0xb8)10:57
Tama^2[   10.468750] kjournald starting.  Commit interval 5 seconds10:57
Tama^2[   10.476562] EXT3 FS on mmcblk0p2, internal journal10:57
Tama^2[   10.476562] EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.10:57
Tama^2[   10.523437] tahvo: Registering interrupt 7 for device10:57
Tama^2[   10.531250] retu: Registering interrupt 8 for device10:57
Tama^2[   10.531250] retu: Registering interrupt 1 for device10:57
Tama^2[   10.531250] tahvo: Registering interrupt 1 for device10:57
Tama^2[   10.851562] mmcblk0: error 1 transferring data10:57
Tama^2[   10.851562] end_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk0, sector 550708810:57
Tama^2[   10.851562] EXT3-fs error (device mmcblk0p2): ext3_get_inode_loc: unable to read inode block - inode=237121, block=49152210:57
Tama^2[   11.031250] tahvo: Registering interrupt 2 for device10:57
Tama^2this is why I cannot boot from mmc10:57
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Tama^2when mounting the same partition *after* booting it work perfectly10:58
b0unc3good morning10:58
johnxTama^2,  have you tried doing fsck on it?10:59
Tama^2no issue10:59
Tama^2and I tried dd'ing the whole content elsewhere11:00
Tama^2again no errors11:00
Tama^2it appens only at boot11:00
johnxwas this in a card reader or the N800?11:00
johnx(that you ran fsck)11:00
Tama^2the n80011:00
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Tama^2the same n800 that mounts the very same partition if I ssh in *after* booting if finished11:01
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johnxTama^2, that's pretty weird11:02
Tama^2I know11:02
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johnxthat's not the *weirdest* thing I've ever seen regarding SD cards...but pretty weird11:03
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* johnx grumbles: Don't see what was wrong with CF cards really...never had a problem with them11:03
Luriacf cards rock11:04
Luriabut admittedly are huge11:04
johnxit's just such a good standard though11:04
Tama^2I thought it may be something that is not initialized at that stage11:04
Luriabut yeah, they are just ata11:04
Luria(non disk) io devices were great on cf11:05
johnxnotice the complete lack of CF *HC* and other such rediculousness11:05
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Luriathats a control chip issue, but yeah11:05
johnxthe old CF standard now has 32GB cards that will work fine in your laptop from 199311:05
Luriai loved that you can just adapt a cf to take the place of a real hdd11:06
johnxand if they eventually stop making higher capacity CF cards we can all just buy CF-to-SDHC adapters and not even notice the difference11:07
Lurianot going to happen any time soon11:07
Luriathe photo industry lives on cf11:07
johnxI could believe that CF will eventually get more expensive than SD though11:07
Luriaplus a lot of embedded devices11:07
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Luriai love the nikon dslr, with "raided" cf11:08
Luriait's dual slot11:08
johnxI hadn't even heard about that11:08
Luriaits also $500011:09
johnxI think I'd rather have a car O_o11:09
michele_well, I see less and less cameras with CF cards... everybody is going to SDs11:09
Luriafewer consumer cameras are cf11:09
michele_the nikon D50, for example is SD11:10
Luriathe pro slrs are not going to move any time soon11:10
Luriad50 isnt made any more11:10
L0cutusthis is perfect for CF :11:10
Luriathe big shift was the d80 going to sdhc11:10
Tama^2oh dear lord, that is *bad* italian in the title...11:11
L0cutusyup :)11:11
Tama^2written by a 5 yo?11:11
Luriaotoh, the d3 just came out, if you can find it, and is very cf11:11
Tama^2The error: [   10.851562] EXT3-fs error (device mmcblk0p2): ext3_get_inode_loc: unable to read inode block - inode=237121, block=49152211:11
Veggencould have been written by me ;) (my italian is about at that level)11:11
michele_Tama^2: italiano?11:12
Luriaiow, all digital cameras over $1400 are cf11:12
Tama^2the partition table:11:12
Tama^2   Device Boot   Start       End    #blocks   Id  System11:12
Tama^2Veggen: lol11:12
Tama^2michele_: yes11:12
michele_Tama^2: me too ;)11:12
Luriai miss type III cf11:12
Luriathat was nuts11:12
Tama^2 /dev/mmcblk0p1            0+   786431     786431+   b  W95 FAT3211:12
johnxTama^2, it's very interesting since flash isn't supposed to fail on reads...11:12
Tama^2 /dev/mmcblk0p2       787456   3948543    3161088   83  Linux11:12
VeggenTama2: but I'm learning italian by spending 1-2 weeks in Italy every 2nd year ;)11:12
Veggen(on average)11:13
Tama^2michele_: I figured by the name :)11:13
* L0cutus too11:13
Tama^2Veggen: italian is a bitch to learn xD11:13
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Tama^2johnx: look at the partition table, the block it cannot read is not even in the ext3 partition!11:14
Tama^2johnx: or maybe I should go to sleep...11:14
johnxcould the block number that the error is referencing be an offset from the beginning of the partition?11:15
johnxeither way, it doesn't make sense11:15
* johnx is afk11:16
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liriwhat are the possible development platforms for maemo? (n800/n810)11:25
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liriI'm talking about the alternatives rather than the obvious c+gtk11:26
inzYou can do also Gtk+/C ;)11:26
inzAnd there's quite a bunch of python programs out there too11:26
liriI read about pygtk a bit, would that run good?11:28
liriI read on some talkbacks that it was somewhat slow/heavy11:29
inzAs far as I've understood, startup is the real problem11:29
inzAfter that they should be quite smooth11:29
BlafaselI'm still interested in java/mono for me11:30
liriare there different combinations of python and gtk, I think that pygtk is one development platform but there are others, no?11:30
BlafaselBut the mono stuff seems to be outdated. At least the stuff on their webpage is.11:30
inzliri, pymaemo is just extension of pygtk11:30
liriahh ok11:31
inzliri, and on maemo you shouldn't use anything that is not gtk based (if possible)11:31
liriI'll search maemo website for some info on starting out with pygtk11:31
lirijava is somewhat interesting also, would that run good?11:31
Tama^2great, I have this:
inzliri, is the homepage of pymaemo11:32
inzliri, afaik there is no (public) release of java for the tablets11:33
lirithanks inz11:33
VeggenTama: Oh, I don't bother with grammar etc :) I learn by speaking, only.11:34
VeggenTama: Actually, travelling within italy, outside the mass-tourism places, you pretty much have to learn italian.11:34
Veggen(at least a bit)11:34
Tama^2yes, I imagine11:34
Tama^2pretty tough to get by without italian outside touristic routes11:35
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lirithat carman screenshots are so smooth and nice :)11:43
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maddlermorning all11:47
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michele_Blafasel: the mono port is still alive11:51
chellihi, is there anyone who is successfully using svn-buildpackage inside scratchbox? (Chinook SDK)11:51
chellii allways get the following error: Can't load '/scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/auto/SVN/_Core/' for module SVN::_Core: /scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/lib/ undefined symbol: RAND_status at /scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/ line 230.11:51
chelli at /scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/SVN/ line 5911:51
mk8Hi michele_, I'm italian too ... :)11:52
Tama^2lots of italians here by the looks of it11:52
michele_uau tanti italiani qua11:52
mk8michele_: do you use mono on maemo?11:53
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michele_mk8: not really, I asked somebody who works on it11:55
mk8I try to use it with the OS2007 version. Now a new version compatibile with OS2008 need to be released.11:56
mk8but is not released jet11:57
Tama^2OK, same card in external slot boots fine11:58
Tama^2almost two days wasted..11:58
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michele_mk8: it should be released soon ;)11:59
mk8the problem is related to the GTK binding, IIRC .... but hope to make some test as soon as possible ... :) ... but I have no date ... :(12:00
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mk8michele_: do you already used mono on maemo?12:07
michele_mk8: no12:07
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Blafaselmichele_: Thanks for sharing that. I'm looking forward to use it/test it.12:10
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mk8michele_: do you plan to use it?12:11
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michele_mk8: not sure. python would be my choice, but the projects I'd like to work at the moment are driving me to C12:12
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maddlera little off topic but... has anyone ever used a MSI laptop?12:17
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mk8michele_: I would like to port GBrainy to maemo when the mono runtime will be released ... :)12:19
michele_what's that?12:20
mk8michele_: look here
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Blafaselmk8: Good idea ;)12:32
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Tama^2is anyone here daring enough to compile from an actual meamo device (e.g. n800)?12:49
johnxwhat do you want compiled12:51
johnxI'm on debian though, if that makes a difference12:52
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Tama^2I am asking because I would like to do that myself and I am looking for recipes (repositories to add for dev libs and compilers)12:53
Tama^2by the way I found out what my problem with the MMC was...12:53
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johnxit works in the external slot right?12:53
johnxwas there something else?12:54
Tama^2 <-- worked around it by using the external slot12:54
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johnxthat's crazy that it works in the external slot O_o12:54
Tama^2apparently the internal interface behaves differently and it's a known issue12:55
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Tama^2I would like to know if I can add dev sources and just do for isntance: apt-get install libhildondesktop12:56
Tama^2from my OS2008 installation that is12:56
johnxfrom what I understand some of the -dev stuff is slightly different versions than the shared libs that ship with OS200812:56
Tama^2mmm arrgh, well but if the apps are linked against it it must be the same >.<12:57
johnxthey're close enough that it doesn't matter12:57
johnxbut it will mess with your dependencies12:57
johnxbut now that you've cloned to SD card it's worth a shot12:57
johnxjust rsync a backup onto your computer, add the repos and if it fails, restore from backup12:58
Tama^2I imagined that was going to be the case that is why I cloned my rootfs12:58
johnxme too12:58
Tama^2which repos should I add? Is there a list somewhere on the wiki?12:58
johnxdo you have scratchbox?12:58
johnxI don't think this is on a wiki anywhere12:59
Tama^2no scratchbox12:59
johnxfrankly, I don't know if anyone got this working before12:59
Tama^2let's try by accessing the offcial repos and seeing if there are dev sections...13:00
johnxok, I'll give you a pastebin of one of my hacked up debian installs13:00
inzTama, you probably need to compile some stuff in scratchbox first13:00
inzTama, some package versions differ on chinook and os2008 repositories13:00
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inzTama, and os2008 only contains sources13:01
Tama^2I see13:01
johnxdo you not have a debian/ubuntu box to host a scratchbox?13:02
Tama^2I could setup a VM13:04
Tama^2but I wanted to try working on the device directly13:05
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KhertanHi !13:05
inzTama, it should be possible after you've compiled those few packages13:05
michele_compiling directly on the device sounds really really painful13:05
inzTama, to get -dev packages with matching versions of those on the device13:05
KhertanIf you want a home ip applet on your desktop ... i ve made one ... but it s still lack transparency13:05
johnxmichele_, why? in terms of speed? or complication?13:06
Tama^2I expect it to be slow, but I do not plan to compile kernels anyway13:06
johnxmichele_, it's not *that* bad13:06
johnxright now I have an x server compile going in qemu that's not much faster than an N80013:07
johnxshould only take a day or two13:07
Tama^2Khertan: thanks13:07
michele_johnx: I'm spoiled after so many years with python and incremental java compilers, compilation was a forgotten step for me :)13:07
johnxthere are always tradeoffs13:08
michele_a day or two... this remembers me of my first linux builds on the 486@66MHz...13:08
johnxyou don't want your xserver written in python for example :P13:08
Khertanjohnx > why not :)13:08
johnxYou...uhm...might have some speed issues13:09
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* Tama^2 loooooooves python13:09
wikkianyone know how to reset the accounts on the builtin email program?13:09
wikkiI've got a nokia N800 that I got from someone13:10
johnxTama^2, there is my complete sources.list13:10
Khertanwikki> rm -rf /home/user should work ... but ll delete other things :)13:10
johnxwikki, don't do what Khertan said :P13:10
Tama^2thanks johnx13:10
wikkiI wasn't going to do that13:10
johnxTama^2, keep in mind many repositories listed in their contradict each other13:11
johnxwikki, just making sure :)13:11
wikkiis there a specific directory under there that I can delete though?13:11
Khertanif i remember in /home/user/ there is a rep nammed email13:11
wikkiwhere are the settings for the email stored?13:11
Khertanor should be in /home/user/application13:11
Tama^2email accounts may be in gconf I suspect13:11
johnxwikki, I honestly don't know. You could just reflash if you don't have any of your stuff on their yet13:12
johnxgive you a fresh start and get you up to the latest software version13:12
johnxI am afk for a while13:12
Khertanon os2007 it wasn't in gconf13:13
Khertanbut don't know for os200813:13
Tama^2gconftool -R / | grep gmail13:13
wikkiah ha13:13
wikkimichele is right13:13
KhertanUh ... i just see that minivmac is in the maemo application wish list13:13
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Tama^2and I find matching stuff13:13
Khertani should recompile it for os2008 and make it available :)13:14
|tbb|anyone familar with dbus-send ?13:14
wikkihow do you reflash the whole thing?13:14
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GeneralAntillesDownload the latest OS2008 release and flash, wikki.13:21
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wikkiis that on or nokia's site?13:23
GeneralAntillesfor the firmware13:24
GeneralAntillesfor the flasher if you're on Linux or OS X13:24
wikkiyes i'm on linux :)13:25
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Tama^2It's bed time13:28
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Tama^2see you folks13:28
wikkithanks general13:29
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GeneralAntillesSure thing.13:30
* michele_ discovered the "mobile" theme on ITT13:30
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Piotrasanybody here can help with qemu issues ( armel target ) ?13:31
GeneralAntillesmichele_, assuming that's not sarcasm: the mobile theme is pretty underfeatured, I'd recommend Classic instead.13:32
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michele_GeneralAntilles: I mostly just read the forums, if I find something missing, I'll try classic13:33
michele_by now I've made it the default even on the real PC13:34
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GeneralAntillesNo Thanks! button, no reply buttons, etc.13:34
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: No \"Thanks!\" button, no reply buttons, etc.13:35
michele_it's just embarassing that the default is unusable on the IT13:35
GeneralAntillesMeh, "unusable" is a little strong.13:35
GeneralAntillesIt worked fine for me.13:35
GeneralAntillesIt's just a little slow.13:35
michele_Meh, "fine" is a little strong.13:36
michele_the little numbers to change page are impossible to hit13:36
GeneralAntillesBull. ;)13:36
GeneralAntillesYou're just bad at hitting them. :P13:36
michele_ideally, the site should be usable without the stilus13:36
infobotmichele_ meant: ideally, the site should be usable without the stylus13:37
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maddlermichele_: are you italian as well?13:39
michele_maddler: sì13:40
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maddlernice! :D where from?13:41
michele_we should do an italian maemo meeting13:41
maddlermichele_: yes, I was thinking about that...13:41
Tama^2mmmh Treviso13:41
maddlermichele_: the real point is that Italy is damn long!13:41
Tama^2too far away :P13:42
b0unc3wow... another italian... great!13:42
Tama^2(yes, still here)13:42
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michele_ok, italias, come over on #maemo-it :)13:42
Tama^2It kind of proves my theory that italians are uber-geeks13:43
Tama^2and gadget-feticists :P13:43
GeneralAntillesTama^2, I think your sample size is a little small for that. :P13:46
Tama^2I lived there for 26 years13:47
Tama^2I know something about my countrymen ;)13:47
maddlernumber of italians here increased a lot in the last few months13:47
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maddlerTama^2: absolutely!13:48
maddlerI'm a damn techno geek!13:48
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maddlerL0cN800: #maemo-it :)14:37
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L0cN800ciao maddler14:38
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wikkilooks like you can delete /home/apps/email/settings/accountrc14:43
wikkiand that will let you create a new email account when the thing won't start14:43
wikkiit's pretty crummy that the program just crashes when it can't resolve the hostname for the email aserver14:43
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johnxso, I'm booted into debian on my N800.15:05
johnxI'm trying to get something to actually access the framebuffer device though15:05
johnxXomap will run but doesn't display anything15:05
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johnxmplayer -vo fbdev runs and acts like it's playing but nothing ever displays15:05
matmohi all. Could someone check the contents of /usr/lib/alsa-lib on 2008 for me (on their own device)?15:06
johnxsure, one sec15:06
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johnxlots of stuff15:06
johnxI'll put it on pastebin15:06
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jottjohnx: how do you run it currently? stock kernel + modified initfs and then debian root?15:08
johnxI'm using fanoush's modified initfs15:09
johnxso I have a white screen that says "Booting from int-sd . . ."15:09
johnx(stock kernel -or- one of my own slightly modified kernels) + fanoush's initfs + debian armel on sd15:10
jotthmm yeah..15:10
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johnxit's really weird, because one time I booted and the framebuffer console I added to the kernel actually displayed one line of text on a black background15:11
jottmaybe there is something else called in the os2008 root to initialize the framebuffer..15:11
johnxI was thinking that15:12
johnxI'm digging through the init scripts now :/15:12
johnxI just figured if someone had the inside story on this ...15:12
johnxI should really see how the OE/Poky guys do this and copy them as much as I can15:12
johnxit's bound to be more straightforward15:12
jottindeed.. probably something very small15:13
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jottjohnx: maybe some runlevel borkness?15:14
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Blafaseljohnx: Just curious: What are you planning to do with a "full" debian on your N800?15:14
johnxBlafasel, put maemo and libhildon on it15:15
johnxbut be able to use any package I want without all sorts of compiling15:15
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johnxmaybe I'll use matchbox panel instead of the default desktop.15:15
BlafaselAh, so you want to replace the underlying base system, but still stick to the UI?15:15
johnxdunno yet15:16
johnxI like the look of it for the most part, but I think I might prefer matchbox desktop for launching things15:16
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johnxI want to make it easier to mix and match apps15:16
johnxplus, I want to make the tablet as future proof as I can15:17
johnxand if I'm lucky a lot of this stuff will apply to the 770 as well and extend the life of those devices15:17
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johnxjott, interesting that you should mention runlevels. Debian can't even figure out what runlevel it's *in*15:18
johnxbut it looks like all the runlevel 2 stuff is running (or tried to run15:18
wikkisounds like fun john15:18
johnxit should be15:19
wikkiyou're trying to get X running now?15:19
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BlafaselHm? Doesn't init print the current runlevel as well?15:19
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johnxBlafasel, if I type runlevel I get back unknown :)15:19
Blafaseljohnx: init?15:19
johnxwikki, yeah...or anything that runs on the framebuffer15:19
johnxinit 2 or init 3 return instantly15:20
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johnxafter running Xomap from inside my IT2008OS chroot the screen has gone completely white15:21
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Blafaseljohnx: ps auxww | grep init doesn't show the level either?15:25
johnxthat shows me 315:25
johnxthats good to know15:25
jottjohnx: hmm have you /tmp/dsmesock in your debian root?15:25
jottor do like mount -n -o bind /mnt/initfs/tmp /tmp15:26
johnxmy tmp is empty15:26
jottmaybe you need the dsmesock!?15:26
jott(for X that is)15:26
johnxI'll give that a shot15:26
jottjust blind guess though...15:27
johnxI admit I didn't even think about that15:27
johnxactually, looks like they're both empty15:27
jotthmm somewhere the socket must be created ;)15:28
johnxcould that really prevent anything from just writing to the fb and getting displayed on screen?15:29
johnxis there somewhere I can read up on what dsme is responsible for?15:29
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jotthmm haven't seen anything indepth yet :(15:31
johnxheh...ran lsof and it looks like dsme still has /tmp/dsmesock held open...I just have no idea what happened to it15:31
jottbut your /mnt/initfs/tmp is also empty?! this should not be i gues..15:31
johnxI assume some ugliness happened during the initfs to debian handoff15:32
johnxor while debian was booting15:32
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jottjohnx: then try to mount /dev/root to /mnt/initfs15:34
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johnxlooks like I'm missing /dev/root too15:35
jottoh :)15:35
johnxforgive me for asking but what would that do?15:35
jottthe initfs is on /dev/root (atleast on os2008 thats the mount)15:36
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johnx/mnt/initfs is mounted actually15:36
johnxand has the right contents even15:36
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johnxunmounted /tmp twice in a row and found some files underneath15:40
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bedboihi there15:40
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Ariel_EranAny ops around?15:52
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alteregoOh the things we do for money.16:09
Spakmanalterego: ?16:10
VeggenI'm actually pretty satisfied with my ability to keep my professional ethics at work...16:11
johnxand I have video!16:11
alteregoOh, it's not ethical.16:11
alteregoIt's just damn boring and tedious :P16:11
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Veggenoh. yah. I don't work well when it's boring and tedious.16:11
VeggenI need new and fun and exciting ;)16:11
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johnxtedious is not so fun :/16:12
johnxboring is just sleep-with-your-eyes-open time16:12
VeggenLuckily, new and fun and exciting tends to happen at least often enough for work to be generally interesting.16:12
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VeggenI also work better when things happen fast.16:13
johnxwell, I appear to have X running to some degree16:15
jottjohnx: nice.. what was it?16:16
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johnxwell, this is somewhat embarassing...I was waiting for the painful black-on-grey x server background16:16
johnxbut I guess they hardcoded xomap to give a white background16:17
jottheh.. nice one ;)16:17
johnxso it probably started working as soon as I tried xomap from inside the chroot16:17
johnxbut it works every time now16:17
johnxI'll have to reboot and see if it works without problems the first time or if I have to look for some magic in ITOS16:18
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johnxnow touch screen16:18
johnxnever been so happy to see xeyes :)16:18
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jottso build the Xomap for debian now ;)16:19
johnxuhm...actually I stole the .deb from the repo and it's running now16:20
johnxI only had to fake one dependency16:20
johnxlater, I'll rebuild it to maintain "debian purity" or something16:20
Takmmm...virginal debian...16:21
johnxThe N800 is pretty warm...I think I need to dig into powersaving :/16:21
jottthat will be the really funny part i guess ;)16:22
johnxyeah that and wifi will probably be hardest16:22
jott(as there are probably many closed source nokia parts)16:22
Takmine gets warm just from my hands16:22
* johnx shakes head16:22
johnxnot looking forward to that part16:22
johnxTak, This is actually sitting on a table in a cold room :)16:23
Takisn't the wifi driver oss now?16:23
Takjohnx: that's not a good sign, then ;-)16:23
johnxis it?16:23
johnxI haven't been paying much attention16:23
TakI had thought it was; I could very definitely be mistaken16:23
johnxeither way it doesn't support Linux wireless extensions v18 so wpa supplicant won't work with it16:23
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Takyeah, I noticed that16:24
TakI used to be in a network that only supported wep+peap16:24
johnxI had hoped they brought it up to date, but they really have no incentive to do so as long as they use their own wacky wifi daemon16:25
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johnxit's incredibly responsive in windowmaker :)16:27
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jottjonnylamb: heh i would be shocked if not :)16:29
jottoops.. johnx16:29
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johnxstill, it's nice to see16:30
jottindeed :)16:30
*** xbmodder_ has quit IRC16:31 first instinct was to install xterm before I realized I had no keyboard16:31
matmojohnx: can you check something else for me? Can you see if App Mgr reports any dependency conflicts for libasound2?16:31 N800 is a little occupied right now16:31
johnxI can check it with dpkg. will that work?16:31
matmooh yeah, I see :) Anyone else?16:31
matmodon't know, try it16:32
jotthm johnx seen that?16:33
|tbb|is it possible to capture dbus events or tell the dbus events to run specific things i want? like  wlan status changed then tell  my application it has changed status?16:33
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johnxjott, thank you so much for digging that up. I would have had a long painful fight with wireless I'm sure16:38
jotthey, i also would love a full debian as dual boot option :)16:40 appears that my default language in debian is Catalan16:41
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Dikeanyone know if there is a repository link16:53
bedboiwhere can i find gst utils?16:53
Diketo download nokia ufficial utilities?16:53
Dikelike skype?16:53
Dikethink ufficial server is not working16:54
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michele_ok, we have to get this on the IT :)16:58
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johnxmichele_, that's pretty slick17:01
matmomichele_: already done?
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michele_matmo: nice, will check it17:03
michele_matmo: gosh... last update was a year ago..17:04
matmowas it! lol, i must have read it only recently17:05
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michele_however, that should have "DON'T PANIC" on the cover17:06
Takyeah, that's what should have been on the 770's hardcover17:07
pupnikI still like my idea of replacement hardcovers with gaming controls on the sides17:08
johnxI could see something like that working for the N810, but it would make the N800 rediculously long17:09
michele_via bluetooth...17:09
michele_mmh that's a marketable idea I think17:10
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pupnikthat's the beauty of the slide on replacement hardcover.  Take the larger one with you if you want to game.  use the original if you don't17:10
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lirito start developing in py-gtk for n800 I don't need to mess around with scratchbox but rather simply apt-get python-gtk* and when I'm done I'll just cross-compile later and transfer to the n800 right?17:10
|tbb|damn i dunno where my microusb cable is and got a reboot loop. have about 3 miniusb cable here but no microusb, grrr17:11
pupnikliri: you don't need to compile with python17:11
lophyteliri, if you're developing in python, there's no cross-compiling involved17:11
Takshouldn't need to cross-compile anything with...damn17:11
liriright, but not even the gui?17:11
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lophyteeverything you write in python will run on your PC and your n800 without any changes17:12
lophyteincluding pygtk stuff17:12
lirihaven't done gtk before... I'm familiar with qt where the interface is different17:12
liriso I can just install pygtk on my desktop and mess around freely.17:12
|tbb|any other way to prevent n810 from reboot loop without cable and kill watch dog thing17:12
lirilophyte: what about pymaemo?17:13
johnxjott, well I just built the wireless driver with that patch17:13
johnxI'll copy the modules over and see what happens O_o17:13
lophyteliri, pymaemo just won't work on your PC17:14
lophytepython libraries are already compiled for the platform they're running on17:14
* elb finally orders his N81017:14
DeLe0nelb are you in USA?17:15
DeLe0nelb how much will it be?17:15
DeLe0ndid they ask for social security number?17:15
elb$145 shipped, and no17:16
elb(why would they?)17:16
DeLe0nelb: they told me by email that i needed SSN... and i was like wtf...17:16
elbI certainly didn't17:16
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DeLe0nalso some mails on the mailing list of the guys who ordered it by phone got asked for SSN17:17
elbjust discount code, payment info, and phone number17:17
elbmaybe for some tax jazz?17:17
elbare you getting a free unit?17:17
lirielb: $145 for the N810? where from?17:17
BlafaselNice price. Was 360$ for me without discount from circuitcity17:18
GeneralAntillesFor the discount codes, liri.17:18
DeLe0nelb: is that i'm from Mexico, and also got a discount code... but don't know if i could buy it with a mexican credit card... i have an address in TX, but, maybe i should tell a friend in USA17:18
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DaniloCesar145?!?!?!?!? 99 (discount code) + ship?17:18
liriGeneralAntilles: where do I get those discount codes? :)17:18
GeneralAntillesYou don't.17:19
liriGeneralAntilles: but I'm a nice guy heh17:19
BlafaselNice, but too late to the party.17:19
liriheh seems like that17:19
liridoes the code grant you just one device?17:19
DeLe0nliri: but it has been hard... the waiting has been too long17:20
Tak145 == 99 * (EUR=>USD) exchange17:20
Taklast year 99E was $120 :-/17:20
BlafaselOuch. Okay, the exchange rate is good for us and bad for the guys over there..17:20
TakBlafasel: getting better all the time, too17:21
lirishould've applied earlier heh17:21
liriwell on circuitcity it's like $480 now17:22
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twi_I need to detect if hildon is running from python17:23
twi_the idea is to send a MethodCallMessage on the bus with set_autostart(False) and check if I get an error back17:23
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twi_do you know what object I could use and on which bus name?17:23
twi_with d-feet I see that I have the bus name when running under hildon17:24
twi_but i can't see the objects exported by it17:24
lophytesweet, got KDE running on my n800...17:25
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fysaIs there a solution for sharing an iTunes library with an IT device?17:26
GeneralAntillesiTunes 6. ;)17:26
fysathat's what I was afraid of. ;)17:26
GeneralAntillesEyeConnect works well for me.17:27
fysaHow about Firefly?17:27
fysaCan EyeConnect read iTunes database?17:27
fysaI really just want the playlists.17:28
* pupnik kicks itunes in the nads17:28
fysaand references.17:28
fysaYou know..17:28
GeneralAntillesYeah, does playlists just fine.17:28
fysasomebody did make an iTunes -> MythMusic playlist synchronizer.17:29
GeneralAntillesMildly expensive, though.17:29
fysaIf I could pull apart the iTunes database exporter, then filter the results with a regexp that converted each song to a URL link, it could be possible to make it work with mediaserv..17:30
GeneralAntillesI'm surprised Canola doesn't support iTunes 7 yet.17:30
maddlerGeneralAntilles: just realized your really look like an italian comic actor :)17:30
GeneralAntillesfysa, there's always mpd if you just want playback from the computer.17:30
GeneralAntillesSssh, maddler, I'm in hiding in the US.17:31
maddlerGeneralAntilles: lol! :D17:31
GeneralAntillesSeriously, though, really? Which one?17:31
fysaWith mpd, you control from the computer and it plays on the IT (remote speakers)?17:31
maddlerGeneralAntilles: he's called Rubens17:31
johnxdepends on where mpd is running17:32
GeneralAntillesBasically turns the N800 into a remote control for the computer.17:32
maddlerGeneralAntilles: kinda demential... but one of my favs :)17:32
GeneralAntillesPlayback wont be on the IT.17:32
fysaah, I see.17:32
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fysaclose.  may be the right solution though..17:32
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GeneralAntillesOtherwise there's UPnP17:33
Spakmanalterego: how is the GtkMozEmbed stuff going?17:33
maddlersorry... it's in italian... :)17:33
* Spakman gets all excited about GtkMozEmbed with Ruby17:33
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GeneralAntillesOtherwise you could write a some sort of zeroconf interface for iTunes, fysa. ;)17:33
fysaMPD will be good when I get the HTPC back up and running (i.e., waiting for new 2.6GHz Mac Mini announcement ;))17:34
alteregoSpakman, not bad. Unfortunately I'm wrestling with a few servers I need online yesterday so Ruby maemo is taking a side line once again :/17:34
GeneralAntillesHehe, kinda creepy, maddler. Good thing I cut my hair a couple years ago. ;)17:34
Spakmanalterego: ah, that's the way it goes :(17:34
alteregoWell, hopefully this week will be my last insanely busy week for a while.17:35
* Spakman crosses fingers for alterego17:35
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fysaThat might work -- if you moved the music from iTunes back up a level17:37
fysaor do we have no DAAP yet?17:38
pupnikI still like the approach used by solmumaha 's knots media server best17:38
lophyteanyone here using kde on n800?17:38
fysaI'd like to use the N800 as an inclusive jukebox device, streaming from my media server from anywhere given enough bandwidth -- but without having to remake playlists on the device itself.17:39
maddlerGeneralAntilles: hehehehe17:39
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fysathat also means integration with my wife ;)17:40
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fysaCan you sync multiple mpd servers?17:45
fysampd client on IT, mpd server on HTPC server -- mpd server plays music out to stream, IT client plays stream17:47
fysampd server also plays stream17:47
johnxjott, I figured out one of my big problems I think: /var/run was a dangling symlink17:47
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fysato networked esound over LAN17:48
fysaHTPC front end and desktops keep esd ready/waiting17:48
johnxand woo! wireless, video, and touchscreen work in debian17:49
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johnxso far absent: powersaving, sound, access to the RTC (?!)17:49
fysathat would come close, and almost 'synchronize' music from your IT and your home.17:49
Takhmm, esd doesn't work out of the box?17:50
fysahaven't tried, but the executable seems to run?17:50
johnxwith that I will catch a couple hours sleep17:50
fysamaybe listening mode has problems?17:50
johnx'night all17:50
fysamy goal: If I'm driving and tethered, streaming music from home, I can walk in the door and have the same playlist/song be playing.17:51
fysa(on the home theater receiver)17:51
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jottjohnx: nice one!17:52
fysaand vice versa.  I can pick my playlist before I get in the car, which would be nice for roadtrips.17:52
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johnxjott, yeah. I would have been hung up on wifi for days without that patch. with the patch it was just business as usual with wpa-supplicant17:53
fysaanyway.  back to the real world.. will play more this weekend. ;)17:53
johnxanyways, tablet and me need to sleep for a bit :)17:53
fysajohnx: You're using debian-armel distro?17:53
fysaany desktop environment?17:53
johnxI installed wmaker to make sure X works17:54
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johnxit's nice and fast but no good for a touch screen17:54
johnxtoo much right click necessary17:54
johnxwill probably get matchbox setup17:54
fysais there a gnome-portable UI?17:54
glasswhat, normal debian running on tablet? 810?17:55
johnxglass, n80017:55
glassnice man :)17:55
VRewireless works too?17:55
fysais matchbox what the new Linux-based UMPCs are using?17:55
johnxheh...I talk about this for hours and only now people are interested17:55
johnxfysa, it's what a lot of stuff uses17:55
BlafaselHmm.. Let's see how good iodine works17:55
johnxincluding the tablets17:55
VRejohnx: the time is now right? :)17:55
johnxVRe, wireless works17:55
johnxeven wpa17:56
Takhah, how about wep+peap17:56
johnxTak, well wpa_supplicant works, so I would assume anything it can handle will be fine17:56
GeneralAntillesI'm surprised there isn't some sort of networked synchronized playback solution for home audio.17:56
VReTak: I would think that anything which works with desktop works now on nokia too17:56
TakVRe: you would think so, but that hasn't been the case to date...17:57
johnxVRe, that's the motivation17:57
johnxanything in the debian armel distro should work17:57
johnxarmel is armel17:57
VReGeneralAntilles: I think there was a plugin for xmms, and xmms has been ported so..17:57
jottjohnx: maybe you could write down somewhere what you did to get all running..17:58
johnxjott, tomorrow :)17:58
VRejohnx: now if the maemo stack would run on top of debian, we would have hacker free platform17:58
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jottguess it's quite easy when you know what to do ;)17:58
VRe.. platform free for hackers I mean :)17:58
johnxVRe, I think17:58
Takman, if we could get a debian-armel installer with busybox, hildon, and matchbox default...17:58
fysajohnx: try installing hildon via debian-armel ;)17:59
johnxthe packages aren't done yet I think17:59
johnxcheck the link17:59
VReand.. if debian will run on n770 too with wireless..17:59
johnxVRe, now you see my grand scheme :D18:00
johnxfysa, they're missing a lot of stuff18:00
fysalooks relatively recent18:00
fysawhich is promising18:00
johnxit is18:00
johnxthe missing stuff is just waiting to be compiled :D18:00
VRejohnx: I was thinking that maemo should be doable as it is done for the intel tablets too, but I was not so sure about the wireless - that it would work18:01
johnxwaiting for hildon-desktop and osso-gwconnect18:01
johnxVRe, it's "doable" sure, but packaging it all nice is still a PITA18:01
VRejohnx: SNAFU18:01
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fysaa debian-armel distro with hildon/kde/matchbox selection via xdm :)18:01
johnxI figure more people will get interested once they see a running debian in a nice .tar.bz218:02
johnxand debian+maemo4.0 is a pretty nice looking route for the 770 people :)18:02
fysaVRe: you know..  intel tablets could probably run scratchbox at native resolution via vmware faster than we can run it natively ;)18:03
VRejohnx, does it run os2008 software or those need recompiling?18:03
Takhah, yeah - no need to continually backport software to ancient libs18:03
* czr peeks18:03
VRefysa: Yeah, but how long :)18:03
VRebit battery18:03
* Tak thwacks18:03
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johnxfysa, not the low power stuff18:03
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* czr expertly avoids the thwackery18:03
* Tak fails18:04
johnxarstechnica was saying they might actually be slower clock-for-clock than arm stuff18:04
johnxVRe, they might run if you sort out dependencies18:04
VRearm is quite speedy one, the thing is that it is just wrong architecture for some18:04
johnxVRe, but hopefully the worst case will be just a quick recompile+repackage18:04
fysaif we can get an 800MHz 256MB device out of Nokia, I would be a happy man18:04
pupnikgah, TMI18:05
VRejohnx: running os2008 is chroot is quick hack :)18:05
johnxVRe, but double the RAM usage :/18:05
TakTak thinks fysa meant: if we can get an 800MHz 256MB device with the same battery life we have now out of Nokia, I would be a happy man18:05
Takfysa: s/device/\& with the same battery life we have now/18:05
pupnikram consumes batter btw18:05
pupnikstop reading my mind Tak18:05
fysawell, indeed.  The reduction in die-size will get us part of the way.. :)18:05
VRefysa: havent you heard that mhz wars are over :)18:05
Takpupnik: stop leaving interesting articles lying around in it18:06
fysabut even then, I just want the 800MHz in bursts here and there.18:06
bmidgley_a better cpu would be great18:06
johnxI'm actually really happy with the speed as is18:06
fysaidle and stay at 180/200Mhz, but let me waste my battery when I need to run a spreadsheet.18:07
VRefysa: until somebody dumps full-hd video on the device and says.. aah it plays - though the battery life sucks :)18:07
bmidgley_omap is really struggling to run a2dp encoder well...18:07
bmidgley_pxa270 spanks it18:07
johnxbmidgley, I think that's software18:07
bmidgley_johnx I've been working on the encoder... same software runs in 2% cpu on pxa27018:07
johnxI'll be able to prove it soon now that I have a debian env to test a2dp away from some of the brain damaged nokia stuff18:07
bmidgley_and over 20% on omap18:08
johnxbmidgley, that's a hell of a lot better than I see locally on either hardware, so where's the link?18:08
TakI'm pretty happy with the speed, except for high-intensity things like emulation18:08
bmidgley_bluez-utils cvs head has some good new optimizations18:08
bmidgley_but some arm assembly will help a lot and we're still working that in18:09
johnxI'll be looking at that shortly18:09
VRejohnx: there was just some dude from nokia on the maemo-list today or yesterday mailing about the maemos derivation from debian18:09
johnxthanks for the heads up18:09
fysaMy attention span has evolved to 2008.  I want my device to accommodate my 2008 attention span, not devolve it back to 1998. ;)18:09
johnxah, awesome18:09
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lophytehey all, anyone know how to get KDE to start on boot, rather than booting into the hildon destkop?18:09
johnxI retract anything I said about A2DP18:09
johnxbmidgley, so are you working on A2DP for Nokia?18:10
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johnxVRe, thanks18:11
* johnx reads18:11
bmidgley_johnx not for nokia18:11
bmidgley_I get a lot of help from Nokia guys, esp INdT18:11
|tbb|maddler: welcome to the club18:12
johnxbmidgley, do you have an N8x0?18:12
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bmidgley_johnx just ordered!! :)18:12
Takheh, I'm sure indt is very interested in better a2dp18:12
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bmidgley_ergh, I mean n810 just ordered, have an n80018:13
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bmidgley_johnx we think the real problem is the cache on omap18:13
johnxdid you post on itt on the a2dp thread?18:13
bmidgley_8 associations not 32 like on pxa and neo1973 (can't remember the cpu there)18:13
bmidgley_johnx I have posted there not recently18:14
VRejohnx: I should send the news about debian working to the devel-list.. I would think people would be more than interested :)18:14
johnxah, ok18:14
johnxI remember your post18:14
johnxVRe, hold off for one day, and I'll do a writeup and post it myself :)18:14
VRejohnx: No, not me - the honor is yours18:15
johnxit's just a hack right now18:15
johnxdebian doesn't even know what runlevel it's in18:15
VRejohnx: typo.. /I/You/18:15
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zoranjohnx, who -r18:16
johnxzoran, nothing18:16
johnxI think I didn't have a real /var/run for much of boot18:16
johnxthat might have messed things up18:17
|tbb|bmidgley what means we get better a2dp support, for example18:17
zoranjohnx,could you point me to docs and place to see the install media?18:17
johnxzoran, install media?18:17
zoranwhere you get distro? debian-arm?18:17
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bmidgley_|tbb| the better a2dp handling is out of the box in bluez-utils, the better in maemo18:18
ph|beranyone have kde on the 810?18:18
bmidgley_the "hack" to turn it on will get simpler and simpler18:18
|tbb|hope you will find a nice way ;)18:18
johnxzoran, quick version: make a debian chroot on an ext2/3 formatted sd card, get boot from sd working with fanoush's initfs, boot18:19
johnxof course at that point you tablet will just sit there18:19
zoranhave to read first  :)18:19
johnxthe trick is to hijack one of the early scripts to get usbnet working18:19
zoranand think second18:19
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VReI think the best thing in long run with the debian running is that the cleanup and QA which is done for the packages - maemo really needs that18:20
zoranthe whole fun is in making the thing work, not the work system itself18:20
johnxzoran, page down to where it talks about debootstrap18:20
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zoransee it18:21
johnxyou can do the first part on your desktop, and the second part from the tablet18:21
zoraninteresting reading18:22
johnxanyways, now I really need to go to bed ;)18:23
johnxI will put something on a wiki tomorrow18:23
johnx'night all18:23
maddler|tbb| club?18:23
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pupnikVRe: that's the downside of the fragmentation of developers due to multiple portable linux distros.  I'd like to see ITOS get on more devices, or some convergence between distros.  Google's initiative is accursed in this regard.18:25
* Tak just want to see debian on everything18:25
zoranTak, on coke?18:26
Takwhy not?18:26
GeneralAntillesDead raccoons?18:26
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zoranand wait to boot and open the bottle18:26
skiburI got my four Wisdom Teeth Extracted on Friday18:27
skiburI will code new Wisdom Teeth today.  Anybody have libnerve?18:27
VRepupnik: spot on, debian running on n8x0,n770,intel.. who cares as long it runs and the same stuff works on every platform the debian way :)18:27
zoranif intended18:27
Takskibur: I uninstalled libnerve; it was just distracting me18:27
skiburPenguinBait will join us soon this Friday18:28
pupnikIs hildon going to become an official extension of gnome?18:29
VRepupnki: something like that18:29
zoranmaybe something like qnx could suit 770/800 just fine18:30
zoranif it could be free18:30
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Takpupnik: btw, I finished complete vala rewrite of xmaeme, complete with hildonizations for chinook and bora18:30
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pupnikTak, what dosbox needs is a way for users to specifcy config options on a per-game basis18:33
pupnikthere's a decent python frontend that does it - i didn't get the xmaeme part fully working but i'll check out your new version18:33
Takoh yeah - I haven't checked it into garage svn or done a release yet18:34
TakI can send you a source tarball if you'd like18:34
pupnikno, please not yet18:34
pupniki need to learn profiling18:35
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Takhah, I don't think profiling will do you much good with vala18:37
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pupnikyeah, but there has to be something i can do to improve dosbox performance18:39
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fysavala compiles to C code, right?18:40
Takwell, it compiles to native, with an intermediate C-code phase18:40
zoranpupnik, I recall dosemu some years ago18:40
zoranworked better, lower memory footprint18:41
fysahow close is arm vs armel asm?18:41
pupnikzoran: yes, that's the DOS equivalent to Wine.  Needs x86 cpu.18:41
Khertanvala ??? an other new language ?18:41
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TakTak thinks Khertan meant: vala ??? an AWESOME new language !18:43
TakKhertan: s/other(.*)\?/AWESOME\1!/18:43
Khertanouch i'm looking at18:43
* Khertan think ...what yet an other language ... obj-c is so AWESOME ... why not use it with gtk !18:44
Khertani don't think it s a good idea to create a language for an api ...18:44
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zoranif it suits better...18:45
TakKhertan: it's not created for an api as much as using an api to implement language features18:45
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fysaI believe it suits a multi-architecture same-UI memory-efficient get-it-done-now world fairly well.18:47
Khertanit s look like a mix between c and java18:47
zorananywhere available ssleay for gregale?18:47
Taksyntactically, it seems pretty similar to c#18:48
Khertanfysa > i believe objc do it better ;)18:48
Khertanyes it s look like ...18:48
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Khertanand seems to have some of this defect too :)18:49
TakKhertan: you just don't like it because it isn't python :-P18:49
KhertanTak > i don't like it because it s not python or objc :)18:50
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Khertani can say i don't like it ... i m just not interested ... for the moment.18:50
Khertanit s only a 0.1.6 release18:50
Khertanhum ... bye ... come back to home18:52
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pupnikhas anyone here submitted open-source projects to governments / NGOs for sponsorship?18:58
olikpoor pupnik18:58
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pupnikthat's literally true.  but i was wondering what I could do to encourage some smart person to develop dynamic recompiler for X86->ARM within dosbox.   Would make windows possible on the tablet.19:03
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olikpoor pupnik19:05
zoranrather pure pupnik19:06
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zoranbtw, some1 used gnutls to tunnel pipe to remote server?19:07
olikpoor zoran19:07
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zoranolik looks to be java robot?19:09
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* zoran gone to feed dragons19:10
Takolik needs to be kicked19:11
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olikpoor Tak19:12
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olikTak: nobody wants your comments¨19:13
Takolik: likewise19:13
oliknobody wants your answers either19:14
Takolik: likewise19:14
Veggenhmm. I've lost my shortcut-toolbar on osso-xterm.19:14
oliknobody wants your "likewise"19:14
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Takolik: likewise19:14
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Veggenwhat's the version supposed to be on newest os2008 ?19:15
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b0unc3auhauhua K-lined :D19:16
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michele_I tought these people didn't exist anymore..19:17
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GeneralAntillesThe world is full of unpleasant people.19:18
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Tak...but you've got the pistol, so you get the pesos?19:18
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fysapupnik: are any parts asm already?19:19
fysaslightly interesting:
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pupnikfysa: no19:27
fysais arm/armel similar enough to take portions of the gp32x dosbox and smash them in?19:29
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guardianah great, expect 500 emails from people now able to use their discount code on the devel list :D19:43
Takguardian: soon you'll be able to resubscribe19:44
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guardianyeah i was searching something using gmane and noticed there is still bandwith waste about the codes ;)19:45
thoughtfixIt's fixed?19:45
Takshould be about over; the US codes are fixed, and they were the last iirc19:45
thoughtfixoh wait - I don't have a code19:45
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michele_"Given the necessary micro-mini-normal-USB adapters and gender-changer-adapters you can connect external harddiscs etc."19:47
michele_what does this mean?19:47
michele_what is a gender-changer-adapter?19:47
thoughtfixIt turns you from a boy into a girl19:48
|tbb|male to female ;)19:48
GeneralAntillesCheaper than a sex change.19:48
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michele_does that mean that I don't need software hacks to plug a USB storage?19:48
michele_just the necessary cables?19:48
thoughtfixI remember having to explain to my stepfather many years ago the package for a "male to male" thing in the trash.19:49
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|tbb|anyone else but maddler has problems with latest rfcomm or modest update which turns n810 into loop reboot19:49
michele_I do19:49
thoughtfixmichele_: I am talking to Nokia about that now. I trust you read Kate's article?19:49
michele_and other people in the forum and the ML19:49
michele_thoughtfix: no19:49
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thoughtfixmichele_: Go to - it's the top story under "News"19:50
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michele_ooh great19:50
* michele_ reads19:50
thoughtfixI may be without tablet soon... My N800's battery only lasts for 6 hours standby and 2 hours use lately.19:50
|tbb|what can i do when i dont got a microusb cable by hand19:50
thoughtfixOrder one ;)19:51
thoughtfixHey look! I'm in line to review a Sony Mylo Com-219:51
GeneralAntillesThat thing has crazy dpi19:51
thoughtfixYeah... 800x480 on a smaller screen19:52
thoughtfixYou saw my CES side-by-side pictures?19:52
GeneralAntillesAlmost too high.19:52
thoughtfixOh ... I haven't published the albums yet19:52
thoughtfixWaiting to finish the Nokia interview first19:52
thoughtfixWhich, in turn, is waiting on the USB OTG question19:52
|tbb|thoughtfix:  are you talking about usb otg or because of my reboot loop problem?19:53
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thoughtfixAt CES, I mentioned that people keep asking me when they can plug in devices to USB OTG and have them "just work"19:53
thoughtfixVictor said "Follow up with me over Email"19:53
thoughtfixand now we're tracking down the answer together.19:53
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* jackster 's n800 arrived19:59
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jacksterhey GeneralAntilles19:59
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lophytedamn where's penguinbait20:02
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michele_is it expected for me to see midgard's menu when I am logged on
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michele_no, I think it wasn't20:05
michele_as it just crashed20:06
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ph|beranyway to overclock the 810?20:10
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lardmandoes the kernel side of cpufreq give any clues?20:11
korpiosph|ber: I'm pretty sure it's already the same chip as the previous model, overclocked.20:11
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korpiosSo I don't think you can squeeze much more out of it.  ^_^20:12
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michele_korpios: I'm pretty sure the previous one was *underclocked*20:13
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t_s_1Mmm,  this is interesting. Right now im using pidgin on my N800 and the freedom universal bluetooth keyboard :)20:14
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lardmant_s_1: Why Pidgin, why not the build-in messenger?20:14
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t_s_1Good question, i had basically forgotten that it could do irc now :P20:15
ph|berkorpios: just noticed that kde was a little slugish.. but.. oh well.. how do you right click ?20:15
korpiosOh, well, if michele_ is right, maybe you can!20:15
lardmanI've not tried with IRC20:15
lcuk_2technically according to ti, the omap 2420 can go from 330mhz to 1ghz, battery life onm the 8x0 might be measured in the seconds though ;)20:15
jacques-workhmm that would be a good fight - pidgin / gaim historically has weak irc support20:15
korpiosph|ber: I'm still waiting for mine; just ordered it today (since they just fixed the US store)  :-)20:16
lardmanI think Igor was going to put up a wiki page about the dividers20:16
korpioslcuk_2: hah :)20:16
Takhah @ 1ghz20:16
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lardmanTak: warm hand at that speed I imagine20:16
ph|berProcessor       : ARMv6-compatible processor rev 2 (v6l)20:16
ph|berBogoMIPS        : 160.6820:16
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, I don't think the chips in our devices are rated for above 400MHz20:16
jacques-workwait states for the RAM would be measured on both hands20:16
ph|berthe 800s were getting like 32020:17
lcuk_2gen, dont let facts stand in the way of a good joke :P20:17
lardmanph|ber: bogomips?20:17
GeneralAntillesph|ber, it throttles.20:17
lcuk_2and since its ti themselves that tell us this it must be true20:17
lardmanph|ber: What cpu frequency are you running at? cpufreq20:17
jacques-workph|ber, dynamic clocking20:17
thoughtfixMIPS are Millions of Instructions Per Second20:17
ph|berthats a cpuinfo20:17
thoughtfixBut over time that became meaningless20:17
ph|berno such command.20:18
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Takbogomips are amount of herring consumed per annum20:18
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lardmanthoughtfix: I was asking what the 320 was measured in, not what a mip is; but thanks20:18
jacques-worklol the other day I saw a wiki page comparing arm bogomips vs x86 (P3) bogomips20:18
jacques-workas if that had any meaning whatsoever20:19
lcuk_2Tak, are they unladen herrings?20:19
jacques-workunladen English herrings20:19
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lcuk_2english herrings are tiny20:20
maddlerany clue where rtcom stores account data?20:20
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jacques-workdoes OS2008 use VFP ?20:21
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lardmanah, actually I'm not sure20:21
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lardmanso I'll take that back, but I imagine not20:21
maddlerfighting against #2803!20:21
t_s_obah, trying irc with the buildt in chat is annoying, as the input fields insist on making the first letter upper case by default...20:21
TakI think you can turn that off in the control panel20:21
GeneralAntillesTurn off auto-capitalization.20:21
jacques-workt_s_o, that might be configurable20:21
* Tak winnar20:21
GeneralAntillesOr just use xchat, as it's much better than both.20:22
jacques-workyeah what GeneralAntilles said20:22
lcuk_2lardman, wasnt vfp not included in the kernel because of the instruction size?20:22
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jacques-workdouble yeah what GeneralAntilles said20:22
Takdoes the chinook xchat have plugin support?20:22
t_s_oheh, i could not find xchat for os0820:22
ph|ber  hardware limits: 165 MHz - 400 MHz20:22
* GeneralAntilles does his song and dance.20:22
lcuk_2you cant use the half sized instructions with vfp so the kernel ends up much larger compiled if you use it20:22
lcuk_2^i think anyway20:23
jacques-workhalf sized instructions == thumb ?20:23
lardmanlcuk_2: that was my understanding, yes20:23
lcuk_2didnt know the technical name ;)20:23
lardmannot the kernel presumably as you'd not use floating point there20:23
jacques-workyeah I was thinking same thing20:23
lardmanbut the rest of the system20:23
jacques-workno FP in kernel20:23
thoughtfixHa! Six months ago I was denied into YouTube's affiliate/partner/revenue sharing program. Now they Emailed me asking me to apply again.20:24
jacques-workthoughtfix, you are much more famous now20:24
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* lcuk_2 is just recalling from memory20:24
GeneralAntillesthoughtfix, get them back, say no! :P20:24
t_s_ohey thoughtfix, any more info on that limepc?20:24
lardmanI wonder if that's a limitation of GCC, it should be possible to switch to and from Thumb; shouldn't it?20:25
thoughtfixt_s_o: I am waiting for an Email back from their VP in America20:25
lardmani.e. use Thumb most of the time then switch to normal mode for vfp stuff20:25
thoughtfixHe's a ThoughtFix fan - watched my "how to release Linux devices" coffee with thoughtfix episode20:25
jacques-worklardman, I dunno, the thumb / VFP limitation sounds vaguely familiar to me20:25
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lcuk_2lard, you would have thought so, but in the document i was reading i think that brings about its own problems20:25
lardmanfair enough, I've not read the docs in a while20:26
jacques-workI guess in the general case, the space savings were worth the lower performance FP20:26
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lardmanAll you need to do it compile libm for vfp then link against that, then you can do fast maths if you so desire and ignore the rest of the system20:26
lardmanyes, exactly20:26
lcuk_2hmmmm......   "It is possible to dynamically switch between the two instruction-sets, thus gaining the advantages of both."
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lardmanyes, I thought so, perhaps a GCC limitation then20:27
jacques-workhmm, "possible" could mean lots of things ;-)20:27
lcuk_2The GNUPro compilers are able to produce code for both the ARM and Thumb instruction sets, but only at a file level of granularity. Thus the programmer can choose whether individual functions should be encoded as either ARM or Thumb instructions, but they cannot specify that specific parts of a function should be ARM or Thumb.20:27
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Takthat can't be of extremely high usefulness anyway20:28
ph|berecho performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor20:29
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T][s][othere we go20:29
T][s][othanks for the link GeneralAntilles20:29
kulveswitching between thumb and non-thumb is slow on armv620:29
lardmanlcuk_2: so does file level mean complied file level or object file level?20:30
lardmans/compiled/end binary20:30
lardmankulve: ah, well that will be the kicker then20:30
lcuk_2it says the gnupro toolkit includes 2 seperate compilers which produce the different instruction sets, so i would say per resultant object file20:30
lardmanassuming they can then be linked together that is20:31
maddler810heya lardman... how is your course going?20:31
T][s][oone annoying thing about this keyboard is the placement of the enter key. i keep hitting it when im going for right shift...20:31
lcuk_2When the assembled object files are linked together the linker will generate special code to switch between the two instruction sets whenever a call is made from an ARM function to a Thumb function or vice versa.20:31
lardmanmaddler810: not too bad thanks20:31
lardmanmaddler810: busy though, teaching all day then refining next day's notes in the evening; feeling a bit tired20:32
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maddler810lardman: I know the feeling ;)20:32
lardmanmaddler810: it's good though, nice to have students who want to learn, nice feeling imparting knowledge :)20:33
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Takstudents who want to learn?  I thought they were extinct!20:33
ph|berok.. so this could be a pain.20:33
maddler810lardman: yeah... that makes you feel apreciated...20:33
lardmanTak: doctorate students20:33
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lcuk_2tak, find the classes where the students pay to be there and you will find the attentionspan increases20:34
ph|berbooting from internal mmc with kde.20:34
lardmanmaddler810: also nice to feel you can explain the mysteries of for loops and if statements :D20:34
Taklcuk_2: not undergrad college students in the US20:34
lardmanoops, being summoned to do the washing up, back soon20:34
ph|beri also have a 4gig microsd card in.20:34
ph|berwont boot from mmc if its in..20:34
dhdlardman: hey, I was looking for the ogg dsp code, have you put it up on the project page yet?20:34
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|tbb|maddler found your cable?20:34
lardman|washingdhd: no20:35
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, only sorta, plenty of stupid required classes to waste your time as an undergrad. ;)20:35
lardman|washingdhd: give me 10min and I'll have a chat20:35
lardman|washingdhd: need to add the GPL to the files then upload20:35
dhdthat's okay I should be working on my PhD thesis anyway :)20:35
dhdbut I would like to take a look at it20:35
t_s_oso, anyone else having trouble connecting to msn using the rtcomm "beta"?20:35
lardman|washingdhd: you need something to distract you of course :)20:35
|tbb|is the  led  in n810 a more color led or are there just three leds inside?20:35
ph|beranyone have any ideas?20:36
GeneralAntillesI think it's three that give you RGB, |tbb|.20:36
* lcuk_2 turned off the throbbing orb of annoyance20:37
dhdsometime this week I am going to look at TI DSPlib20:39
* dhd idly wonders if there exists a free optimized DSP/math library for ARMv5TE20:39
Taklcuk_2: you turned off the internet?20:39
lcuk_2not me, think GeneralAntilles caught that big red button again20:39
GeneralAntillesI just can't help it. :(20:40
lcuk_2anyone notice when your connection goes down you open more windows and get more lag20:40
|tbb|better turned off as deleted20:40
pupnikthe jolly, candy-like button20:41
lcuk_2no, dont delete the internet - im nearly at 5000 posts on slash20:41
GeneralAntillesYou gotta browse at -1 to see them though.20:41
* lcuk_2 has had more firstposts than most people have had hot dinners :S20:42
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lcuk_2is that really something to brag about20:42
GeneralAntillesI just read /.20:43
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lcuk_2mind you, ive been posting there now for (jeesus) 8 years20:43
GeneralAntillesHow many digits? :P20:43
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lcuk_2oh i got there way after the goldrush, need at least 10 (almost 11 now) for anything less than 620:44
* lcuk_2 didnt even have internet until '9920:46
t_s_ohmm, i find a setting for correcting case with handwriting, but nothing about the onscreen or bluetooth keyboard...20:46
t_s_ogah, found it. i had to go into the settings for each dictionary!20:47
lcuk_2hmmmm.. google only lists the first 100 pages of results20:48
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MoRpHeUzanybody here coming to bossaconference ?20:59
Takdid you mail me plane tickets?21:00
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MoRpHeUzTak: =P21:00
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t_s_ooh crap, seems i have the reboot loop :(21:03
lardmandhd: I need to get on and publish that code21:03
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t_s_oshould have seen that one coming when the chat started erroring on me21:03
maddlert_s_o: installed rtcom?21:03
b0unc3t_s_o: me too :(21:03
lardmandhd: but have been busy this week teaching & preparing the course, etc21:03
Takhah, I stopped getting the reboot loop on my 770 when I added more swap21:03
b0unc3Tak: I have 128mb of swap enabled...21:04
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t_s_oand i finally figured out why msn wasnt working, i needed to set the nickname. should have been a warning about that...21:04
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t_s_ogah, and i do not have ssh installed :( so i guess my only option is to do the firmware dance...21:05
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Takheh, you probably don't need more on an n8[01]021:05
|tbb|how to search irclogs with  exact phrases21:05
|tbb|maddler found your cable?21:06
felipect_s_o: how do you use msn?21:06
t_s_owell right now pidgin is the best option, as the rtcomm stuff is buggy...21:07
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felipect_s_o: yeah, I agree, but it's just telepathy-haze21:09
felipect_s_o: telepathy haze is the one that provides msn through libpidgin21:09
felipecer, libpurple21:09
t_s_opoint is that it integrates with the buildt in contact manager rather then being a stand alone app...21:10
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Takman - I wish they'd released the doom3 theme21:11
lcuk_2black on black and automatic backlight disabled on the screen?21:12
t_s_ohmm, no way of telling the N800 not to start rtcomm on boot?21:13
lcuk_2tak, thats actually quite nice21:14
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Takyes, it is21:15
Takbut they never did a file release21:15
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elbwhere is my N81021:26
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elbI ordered it hours ago21:27
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GeneralAntillesGo conk yourself over the head with a hammer21:28
GeneralAntillesit'll be there in no time.21:28
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jeff1fI found one on the street a few minutes ago21:30
jeff1fto: elb21:30
jacksteris it nnormal for the n800's screen to distort slightly under pressure from the stylus?21:30
elbjeff1f: that's mine, the FedEx guy must have dropped it21:31
jacksterlike when you touch a flat screen tv or laptop screen21:31
fysaI believe so.21:31
fysamine does ;)21:31
fysahas anyone tried X11 forwarding to an IT?21:32
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GeneralAntillesThere are some posts about in on ITT, fysa.21:32
GeneralAntillesIt works.21:32
unique311what's new with The Maemo?21:33
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pupnikslightly faster dosbox build here unique311... do you have chinook sdk21:34
fysa"Hildon would handle the X11 fowarding, but very poorly. XFCE (Openbox and even KDE, for that matter) handles it smoothly. Highly recommended for those of you with Linux desktops."21:35
fysa"I get full Firefox, Evolution, even OpenOffice on my n800 while sitting in the living room at the speed of my desktop."21:35
Takunique311: latest gngeo any difference?21:35
fysatime to get KDE working :)21:36
unique311the beta you let me try out? Tak21:36
TakI sent you a new one a few days ago21:36
unique311let me check my email21:36
unique311Found it.21:37
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unique311let me give it a try.21:37
unique311i'll let you know21:37
LinuxCodehiiiiiii ;-D21:38
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* LinuxCode loves his N81021:39
Takcareful, that voids the warranty21:39
LinuxCodefew little issues but still ...21:39
LinuxCodeI need to figure out how to flash it to bring it up2date21:39
fysaif I get too much use out of this N800 I may actually have to replace it with the N810 .. :/21:40
LinuxCodefysa, haha21:40
LinuxCodeonly quibble I have is the GPS21:40
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LinuxCodeits rubbish21:40
LinuxCodetakes a long time to get a position21:40
LinuxCodehowever, thats more a gps issue and environment21:41
fysaI would tend to blame Nokia still ;)21:41
elbhow long is a "long time" ?21:41
LinuxCodeelb, hmm like 5 mins to get a position21:42
LinuxCodeor so...21:42
LinuxCodeI havent timed it21:42
fysanot quick enough to win any scavenger hunts21:42
LinuxCode+ then environment wise...lets say trains to exactly leave rays through in the ghz band21:42
elbsounds like it doesn't try to sync from its last known position21:42
lardmanhmm, mine got a position from cold faster than that21:42
Takhmm, what's the stock resolution on a gbc rom?21:42
LinuxCode-to do not21:42
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LinuxCodesorry been up since 3am21:43
LinuxCodelardman, hmmm21:43
LinuxCodedid you flash yours mate ?21:43
LinuxCodetheres an update out21:43
fysalow enough that we should be able to run it full speed  :)21:43
elbTak: I *think* the GBC is 320x320, but I'm sure some fan site out there knows for sure :-)21:43
LinuxCodeim not keen on losing all my setup though21:43
lardmanLinuxCode: yep, latest flash image21:44
LinuxCodemight be a bugfix ..maybe21:44
pupnikcool we gots netcat for os200821:44
pupnikfastrn scp21:44
fysayeah, 160x144.  GBA is 240x16021:44
elbTak: holy crap, 160x14421:44
elbman, that's horrid21:44
elbit seems much better than that sitting in front of it21:44
LinuxCodepupnik, got a list handy ?21:44
lardmanLinuxCode: I've not used it since then mind you, so perhaps it's slower the second time round ;)21:44
pupnikthat's why i don't like those games21:44
LinuxCodelardman, hehe21:44
LinuxCodeone thing I noticed21:45
pupnikFilename: pool/maemo4.0/free/n/netcat/netcat_1.10-32osso1_armel.deb21:45
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LinuxCodeis that hildon also takes some time to build the appz list in the menu21:45
LinuxCodepupnik, there has to be a full list somewhere21:45
Takhmm...not enough to make it 4x21:45
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fysaSNES is 256x224 (most games) to 512x44821:46
* LinuxCode checks remo stuff on site21:46
elb512x448 is higher resolution than PAL can actually display21:46
elberr, than NTSC can actually display, sorry21:47
elbPAL gets closer21:47
fysaI believe you would lose some in overscan/transmission/conversion..21:47
fysabut I believe that res is rather rare21:47
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elboverscan is only relevant for width, and that's more height than NTSC can render21:47
GNUtonhave someone compiled snes emulator for maemo?21:48
fysadoesn't mean the pixels aren't there :)21:48
fysayou just can't see them ;)21:48
elbbut, it likely samples from al arger resolution than it sends out on its video signal21:48
elbthat's not an uncommon trick21:48
* fysa used an Amiga 500 on a regular TV at one point..21:48
fysathe horrors of video signals21:49
elbTVs are really crappy21:49
elbnot only are they low resolution, but they don't actually have pixels21:50
TakGNUton: pupnik built snes9x, but it was pretty slow21:50
fysais there an svn with it?21:50
fysaor was that just raw snes9x compiled in sb?21:50
* lardman hates compact keyboards, why change the position of Insert, delete, home, end, etc. AArrrgh!21:51
thoughtfixOkay ... I need developer and community advice21:52
lardmanfire away21:52
unique311the answer is yes21:52
TakDouble yes.21:52
fysaonly if nobody catches you21:52
fysaalleys are the best21:52
thoughtfixApparently, as a face of the community, I've been invited to speak at Openbossa in Brazil21:52
fysahave you set your rate?21:53
unique311Tak, having issues with xmaeme,  for some reason i have a version that doesn't allow me to choose neogeo bios folder.21:53
unique311same issue i had before.21:53
unique311but i forgot how i got pass it.21:53
GNUtonTak: k21:54
thoughtfixI have three potential topics that are mostly-written editorials21:54
thoughtfixthat could easily become lectures to developers21:54
thoughtfix"Don't Fear the Penguin" - about overcoming non-geeks' fear of Linux devices21:55
thoughtfix"The Other Pocket" - making a case for secondary (non-phone) devices.21:55
thoughtfix"Noise to Signal" on strategies for learning from community feedback without wasting time21:55
unique311How about "The NIT motherf'n rocks....Go get one."21:56
dhd"the other pocket" is a nice one... since one of the common complaints about the iPhone is that it isn't a very good phone21:56
lardmanI'd not do #1, it's quite a popular topic21:56
Takunique311: yeah, it's because os2008 doesn't have a GtkFileChooserButton21:56
lardmani.e. there seem to be lots of articles about it21:57
unique311Tak, i got it to work last time.21:57
fysaI would do #1 twice, but targetted at the people in charge of making SDKs and buildkits because the developers don't care. ;)21:57
fysathey just want to compile it and get it working.21:57
lardmanin which case you need to target the tutorial writers21:57
unique311by uninstalling it, rebooting the device and then installing xmaeme again21:57
unique311hope it works21:58
fysathe SDK should come with instructions on branding something properly -- down to the little nuances of icon selection21:58
fysaand (re)naming a package to suit the general public21:58
Takunique311: I'm sending a prerelease of the next xmaeme21:58
lardmanfysa: that is debian packaging, I have troubles with that21:58
elbthoughtfix: I'd personally be interested in noise to signal21:58
fysapackage manager needs a checkbox for 'advanced mode'21:59
Takyou'll be the first one to try it on os2008 since I've ported to vala ;-)21:59
elbthough I'm not going to be at any Brazilian conferences any time soon ;-)21:59
fysaturn it off, you see friendly names (already in most debs!)21:59
lardmanfysa: or specifically for Maemo?21:59
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fysaturn it on, you see real names21:59
unique311thoughtfix, go with #421:59
fysamany environments are affected21:59
fysaas a developer, my #1 goal is to write myself out of a job.21:59
thoughtfix.... 4?22:00
unique311How about "The NIT motherf'n rocks....Go get one."   422:00
fysamake it once, make it right, make it usable by everyone, release it and move on.22:01
fysathe hildon taskbar full of generic 'tool' icons is no fun22:01
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thoughtfixI think noise-to-signal is the preferred22:02
pupniknetcatting a tgz over wep to N810 with kingston 4gb miniSDHC gives me about 800kB/s22:02
unique311Tak, thanks.22:02
unique311option is there now.22:02
fysahow much CPU is wasted on WPA-PSK encryption?22:03
fysamaybe that's why nfs is so cpu hungry.22:03
lardmandoes the omap have wpa-psk helper hw?22:04
fysapupnik is closest to testing ;)22:04
fysahe already has the netcat line in his history22:04
pupnikthoughtfix: good subjects btw.  no preferences here22:04
GeneralAntillesI like noise-to-signal, but all of them sound really interesting.22:05
elbthoughtfix: I think "noise to signal" has the highest usefulness content to other projects, if that's part of the goal :-)22:05
elbI know Pidgin experiences a very low S:N ratio in its user feedback22:05
pupnikif the developers there are from non-tablet camps, the 2nd topic could be worthwhile also22:06
GeneralAntillesYeah, #2 or #3 depending on the audience.22:06
pupnikcause i think it's a subject missed by some people who like portable *nix... the advantages of a seperate tablet computery thing instead of packing all functions onto a phone22:07
thoughtfixI've been sort of a filter for a number of developers22:07
thoughtfixThey send me stuff they're working on22:07
thoughtfixI demo it and get feedback22:07
elbyeah, I had a run-in with some dude a while back who had this GIANT wonder-phone thing, that was a pocket computer, telephone, camera, etc.22:07
elbthis was in like 2004, so it was truly giant22:07
thoughtfixThen distill the crap out of the feedback and send it back22:07
elband I said something about not being impressed with the concept, and he started to make fun of me, talking about "bat belts" and crap ... I just shook my head and walked away22:08
lcuk_2NEVER walk away from batman22:08
unique311thoughtfix, how about,  "Motherfuck'n Noise-to-signal" on Motherfuck'n strategies for Motherfuck'n learning from community Motherfuck'n feedback without Motherfuck'n wasting Motherfucki'n time.22:08
LinuxCodelcuk_2, i watched it too22:08
LinuxCodehey mate22:08
elbof course, he was an Australian in the US, and the first thing I was thinking was, "most of the things I carry on my belt you are forbidden to own"22:09
elbbut I didn't want to go down that route ;-)22:09
LinuxCodehow was ya day ?22:09
thoughtfixunique311: I don't think they'll let me take snakes on a plane22:09
lcuk_2first day after the weekend back in work so it was meh22:09
LinuxCodei had a deadline22:09
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LinuxCode18 pages or so of crap22:10
unique311sorry about that, i just saw the movie.22:10
lcuk_2luckily i am ahead with mine so a sicky day yesterday isnt too much22:10
LinuxCodelcuk_2, tehe22:10
Takunique311: the buttons show up?22:10
unique311well stuff happened Tak.22:11
unique311lots of bad stuff22:11
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unique311i just restarted the device.22:11
LinuxCodeim just eating pizza then im having a good long sleep22:11
* lcuk_2 can still smell the pizza22:12
* LinuxCode gives lcuk_2 a piece22:12
lcuk_2+garlic bread+curry22:12
lcuk_2no ta, just eaten22:12
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lcuk_2in linux (desktop) is there any analog to senkkeys() on windows?22:12
* lcuk_2 wonders how to get his remote control server controlling a media player22:13
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unique311Tak, still no buttons.  but emulator takes longer to start.22:14
unique311the games im playing is still fast.  sound is still really loud.22:15
Takwell, with US device program now working, it should only be another month or so :-P22:15
unique311going to run gngeo from the command line22:16
pupnikpls lemme know if you find out how to get n810 Fn+ numbers working in sdl22:16
pupnikwithout handling the keymapping at the app level22:16
Takshouldn't be any difference @ command line22:17
unique311just figured that out.22:18
unique311but metal slug is really nice on it.22:18
unique311Just have to let the screen go black22:18
unique311and when i turn it  back on, the buttons show up.22:18
unique311no biggie.22:19
unique311finally have a descent amount of working roms for MAME22:19
unique311now to Locate some for GBA.22:20
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unique311Tak, that comment about the emu starting slower was premature.22:22
unique311it was actually the game.  I just tried another game and it started up really quickly22:23
Takyeah, it can be significantly different for each one22:23
Taklike samsho is fairly quick compared to mslug22:24
pupniksnes9x on N8x0 runs like a constipated grandmother with a blown knee22:24
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pupniki wonder if anyone's maemo google search will return that analogy22:26
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fysaunique311: you on 810 or 800?22:29
unique311outdated, lol22:30
unique311i feel like a 770 user now22:30
fysasame ;)22:30
fysamotherfuck'n n80022:30
LinuxCodehardly any difference22:30
unique311good one22:30
* Tak 770 user22:30
fysayou in the market for an N800 when I get an N810, Tak? ;)22:31
unique311Tak, some games that didn't work before work now.22:31
unique311a plus22:31
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* lcuk_2 is glad he has an 810. never have considered something without a keyboard to be a proper computer22:32
fysabut how good is it for ssh given the lack of proper keys?22:33
Takfysa: nah, I gave my n800 to my fiancee22:33
pupnikyou can adapt the keyboard to include tab and | etc22:33
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fysado they include a bottle of Testors model paint? :)22:33
lcuk_2fysa, since i only ssh into the device its not that much of a biggy.  i do miss the tab key though, but thats down to dev language choice22:34
Takanybody using pyboy/gnuboy ?22:34
fysahow is your wpm compared to the N800 vkb?22:34
pupnikmost of the time i use a tablet while sitting, so the BT keyboard is preferable to builtin thumbboard then22:34
pupnikbut it's fun to shell/vi while walking about too.  just somewhat dangerous22:35
|tbb|anyone knows something about the njoy rgb format nokia uses for led flashing on n810?22:35
lcuk_2pup, have you tried typing whilst lay on your back with the builtin kb?22:35
pupnikno but that would be another good use case22:35
unique311Tak, gameboy is really not interesting.22:35
lcuk_2its not - i almost knocked myself out the other night22:35
* Tak shrugs22:35
unique311unless you a pokemon fan22:36
TakI'm just adding a page to xmaeme for chaoticbob's gnuboy port22:36
lcuk_2hi tama22:36
unique311desmume is another story.22:36
Tama^2hi lcuk_222:36
unique311but it is slow as hell, and the screen is way too small22:36
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pH5|tbb|: I think it is explained in a comment in /etc/mce/mce.ini22:37
Veggenfysa: You can get used to a keyboard. Even the n810 keyboard.22:37
VeggenI'm considering trying to use my n810 as my exclusive home machine for a week, to force myself to adjust and learn to use the keyboard :)22:38
fysayeah, I can imagine so.  I would love to wait for a device with better CPU (just got the N800 a few months before the N810 was released), but I'm finding it hard.22:38
GeneralAntillesHeck, I'm used to the N800's keyboard.22:38
fysaI've already replaced a laptop with N800 + bluetooth keyboard.22:38
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pupnik./configure : 'maybe you need to recompile python with --shared-libs'22:39
fysahonestly, KDE and X11 forwarding is probably the killer app for me.22:39
fysaand KDE/X11 make much more sense with the slide-out keyboard.22:39
GeneralAntillesfysa, wait for the N900. :P22:39
VeggenI used my n800 exclusively for a week travel including a conference. It's quite usable if you just try it for a while.22:39
fysado you know something I don't? :)22:39
fysayes, it's excellent for taking notes.22:40
fysausing the Apple bluetooth keyboard..22:40
VeggenGA: I can never manage to wait. That's why I have all three of them (770, n800 and n810) ;)22:40
VeggenAnd will end up with the n900 when it comes, surely..22:40
Tama^2I prefer n800 with BT keyboard22:40
fysathere was no outlet near me at the desk, so at one point I moved the N800 into the corner of the room at an outlet, set the font size to 28pt and kept taking notes as normal..22:40
Tama^2n900 is GeneralAntilles' pet-topic22:40
fysathat was at hour five or six..22:41
lcuk_2now ppl are starting to get 810s, how do you hold it without feeling like its gonna slide out of your hand22:41
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GeneralAntillesN810 is a waste of money if you have an N800.22:47
LinuxCodelcuk_2, one word22:47
LinuxCodedesk stand22:47
GeneralAntillesThat's two.22:47
LinuxCodeok that was two words22:47
lcuk_2but you cant type with a stand - when your holding it i mean :P22:48
* LinuxCode hits GeneralAntilles 22:48
LinuxCodelcuk_2, yes you can22:48
LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, hey mate ;-D22:48
LinuxCodehow ya doing GeneralAntilles ?22:48
||cwyou cna't use a desk stand when you are standing in line for a bus22:48
lcuk_2it was uncomfortable with stand out - fingers just the wrong size22:48
GeneralAntillesI hurt, LinuxCode.22:48
VeggenGA: Well. Sort of, but I had the money to waste :P22:48
LinuxCodewhy ? ;-|22:48
lcuk_2i found a nice big rubber pad and double sided stickied it to the back22:48
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GeneralAntillesYou hit me. :(22:48
VeggenGA: But I seriously think I like the keyboard. And it's way better if you don't have a table when you type.22:49
* LinuxCode rubs GeneralAntilles 's arm better22:49
LinuxCodeok now ?22:49
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GeneralAntillesNow I'm just creeped out. :P22:49
VeggenGA: trying to use the n800 and a bt keyboard in your lap is not easy :)22:49
lcuk_2why would you rub his cpu better?22:49
GeneralAntillesVeggen, I just use the fullscreen keyboard. ;)22:49
Veggenmm, yah. but if you22:50
pupnikahh khertan found the fix22:50
Veggenwant to see the screen as you type. I never got used to the fullscreen keyboard :)22:50
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lcuk_2khertan just codes on the road anyway, he hard wired his 800 to his brain22:50
lcuk_2i should try coding whilst i commute to work, but i'd keep dropping the device when i change gear22:51
Veggenlcuk: I once rode with a guy who was *knitting* while driving.22:53
Veggenlcuk: (now, don't ask,but there was a reason ;)22:53
melmothis it me or is there no tab key on the n810 keyboard ?22:53
lcuk_2was his technique good?22:53
melmotha shell without auto completion is...torture.22:53
lcuk_2melmoth, its just you, everyone else has a tab key right next to the Q22:53
lcuk_2(only joking)22:53
elbdoes it have an ESC key?22:53
jottlcuk_2: write an app to control the gear with the it .. there is already some framework for that ;)22:53
lcuk_2you are right there isnt one22:54
elbESC ESC probably also completes22:54
lcuk_2yes elb, its on the side of the screen i think22:54
lcuk_2the lower one if i remember rightly22:54
elbthat's what ksh used, way back in the day22:54
Veggenlcuk: That's the point. It was a competition. ANd one of the tasks during the competition was to knit as much as you could for the duration. And we were only guys, and he was the best knitter *even* while driving, and he was the only one who could drive.22:54
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lcuk_2kinda like an alternative take on extreme ironing22:55
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thoughtfixI hate it when that happens22:55
czrironing <322:55
czrand no, I won't iron your shirts.22:55
thoughtfixthe most popular lecture topic is "Noise to Signal"22:55
jottmelmoth: you can always define new keys combinations or rebind existing ones...22:56
lcuk_2czr, ive got some pants which need flattening22:56
Veggenczr: I buy them "iron-free". And when people complain that they're not ironed, I just say "there's something wrong with the shirt, it was bought ironing-free".22:56
czrjott, or try using HP-UX (no line editing even) and be happy without working completion22:56
Veggenczr: It goes right in with my nerdy image ;P22:56
czrVeggen, I feel you22:56
lcuk_2my iron has been broken for a while, i suppose i should buy her some flowers or let her make me a new 810 case22:57
czralthough ironing, like washing dishes, is a therapeautic thing for me really.22:57
GeneralAntillesIroning sucks. Buy yourself a steamer and be happy.22:57
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czrassuming I don't have to iron a shirt in the morning before a bloody meeting22:57
czrlcuk_2, how's the furry case coming along?22:57
lcuk_2the most ive ever relaxed whilst working was when i did potato peeling and chipping :)22:57
lcuk_2thankfully its not lol22:57
czrlcuk_2, hmm. maybe you should have a backup plan then22:57
lcuk_2we have other matters at home before we deal with that22:58
jottczr: you can also remove the d-pad binding if you like it more this way ;)22:58
* czr starts looking for pink fur animals22:58
VeggenI once had an argument with one of the fancy-dressed project-leader-girls at work. About being "clothing-counscious"...22:58
czrjott, hmm. you could still use ctrl+a and such, so you'd have to remove ctrl as well22:58
* lcuk_2 is going to fancydress party in a couple of weeks as neo22:58
* lcuk_2 needs guns. lots of guns22:58
VeggenI said that I was just as good at that as her. "I take *well* care of which t-shirt I use in the meetings. *always*"22:58
czrlcuk_2, and a angry and malnourished looking posse22:59
jottczr: hehe.. yeah or patch readline and remove those bloat features ;)22:59
Tama^2Veggen: s your work env very formal?22:59
thoughtfixLeather coat?22:59
VeggenTama: Nah.22:59
czrlcuk_2, do they have a lot of marble in the place you're going? otherwise it's going to be boring22:59
* lcuk_2 wears t shirt and jeans to work22:59
lcuk_2its on an army base22:59
VeggenNot really. But it happens that I end up in meetings which are more formal than othetrs.22:59
czrthat works :-)22:59
lcuk_2actually, best not take a gun22:59
czrlcuk_2, yeah, take a helicopter.23:00
lcuk_2plan b: austin powers23:00
czra great bush of breast hair?23:00
VeggenTama: I actually work with system integration for banking environments, really. Much projects etc.23:00
VeggenTama: Sometimes, I end up in meeting with managers pretty high in the hierarchy of large banks.23:01
lcuk_2veggen, i hope you have a formal black tshirt23:01
VeggenTama: I find the strategy of always wearing a nerdy t-shirt is highly successfull.23:01
czrVeggen, you wear your "I read your email." T-shirt to those?23:01
czrI used to have a bumper sticker of that on my laptop. it got pretty good reception at formal project meetings23:02
Veggenczr: I have a "happy hacking" GNU t-shirt. That's one of my favourites.23:02
Veggenczr: strategy works. Everyone thinks I know a lot, because there can't be another reason why they drag me to the meeting.23:03
Tama^2Veggen: why highly succesful? (me thinks of a dilbert comic that fits...)23:03
czrVeggen, maybe they drag you just into the meetings in order to be amused and entertained?23:03
czrI used to feel like that when I was working in the financial sector23:03
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czrour project manager was a complete boot.23:04
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Veggenczr: I once had a project manager without technical understanding *whatsoever*. And he was in a different city than those of us doing the technical stuff.23:04
czrVeggen, my boot lived in the same city23:05
czrotherwise exactly same qualifications.23:05
lcuk_2isnt that the definition of project manager23:05
Veggenczr: He'd call me, and ask me to explain what I was doing. And then he'd ask me to explain what I'd just told him. And even that was beyond him.23:05
lcuk_2they arent paid to know the inner workings.23:05
czrI've worked with semi-good ones as well.. although hmm..23:05
Veggenczr: Until I finally told him "I don't have time for this anymore. I have to get some work done."23:05
czrlcuk_2, it would be nice if they would have at least some idea about the project and how things can be done (and how they cannot be done)23:06
lcuk_2if a manager gets caught up in the inner workings then they arent managing you properly23:06
VeggenIt'd usually take around 30 seconds, and he'd call up the guy next to me, asking *the exact same questions*.23:06
czrVeggen, he wanted to feel that he participated!23:06
Veggenlcuk: agreed :)23:06
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czrlcuk_2, I don't think we're talking about inner workings here exactly.23:06
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Taka project manager should be able to understand the properties of a technical project in order to properly manage it23:07
Veggenczr: I also once had a boss who got nervous when things were critical, and always asking a and bugging us. He was away for a customer meeting in another city, and I'd promised I'd be done with quite a bit of work after that day...23:07
Taksomebody who thinks software is magic that can do anything without limits is not going to be a good project manager23:08
lcuk_2i do agree czr - there is a difference between knowing something can be done (from experience, hands on or prior projects) and knowing nothing23:08
Veggenczr: But then he called me every half hour, asking for status: It was getting on my nerves by an hour after lunch, so when he asked "Now, you'll be ready, right?"23:08
* czr nods23:08
Veggenczr: so I answered him "No. I won't. Not unless you hang up *now*, and don't call me again. *ever*"23:08
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Veggenczr: He didn't call again. He was hopping mad when he returned. But I was done, so he couldn't stay mad ;)23:09
czryou've got to educate people sometimes..23:09
LinuxCodeczr, iron my shit23:09
lcuk_2typo or a big mess?23:10
czrmost of people I've worked for just politely get out of my way. if they're good, they'll know which questions they should ask me for feedback and that if I can't provide a "no/yes" answer, it's a good thing..23:10
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czrLinuxCode, no :-)23:10
* LinuxCode cries23:10
czrI'm not ironing your shit!23:11
czriron your shit yourself damn it!23:11
LinuxCodeehh shirt23:11
* lcuk_2 wonders how you would clean the iron afterwards23:11
czrno. the moment is gone now!23:11
Veggenczr: yah, where I'm now, people respect what I say. Mostly because I never speak without knowing what to say ;)23:11
LinuxCodebut shit implies more than one item23:11
czrI'm not ironing anything for you, pervert!23:11
robtaylorsudo iron my shirt23:11
LinuxCodeczr, haha23:11
czrsudo: filename or command not found. you fail.23:11
LinuxCodeI bet you do extremem ironing czr23:12
czrhmm. depends on what it means I guess23:12
robtaylorczr: waoh, your wetware install must be pretty borken ;)23:12
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lcuk_2czr, ironing whilst rock climbing or skydiving23:12
czrahh. no :-)23:12
czrrobtaylor, I'm using the same design process as the maemo team, can you blame me?23:13
robtaylorWhat the world needs is *real* extreme programming23:13
robtaylorczr: heh23:13
mgedminthere's extreme ironing23:13
mgedminwhich is what lcuk already mentioned...23:14
lcuk_2robtaylor, entirely plausible with the 81023:14
robtaylorlcuk_2: heh, damn right :)23:14
mgedminand linuxcode23:14
czrwhat about base jumping and ironing?23:14
czrdoes that count?23:14
mgedminthe strategy of reading irc logs very fast by skipping 75% is not working that well...23:14
Tama^2mgedmin: there's extreme ironing23:14
lcuk_2it depends if you are ironing your parachute23:15
robtaylorThe Nokia Extreme Programming Championship - "Nokia, Breaking People"23:15
Tama^2any ironing not done by mum is by definition extreme23:15
czrmgedmin, you should make a tool that combines new lines by skipping 3/4 of words but by keeping them otherwise intact23:15
lcuk_2i can iron anything as long as it is towel shaped23:15
mgedminstep 1: run a busy loop on your N800 to get it really hot23:15
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czrhah Tama^223:15
mgedminstep 2: apply it to a shirt23:15
mgedminczr: why words? characters23:15
czrone of my exes got really mad at me once when I noted her that she completely didn't iron my shirt correctly.23:15
czrwell. she didn't iron my stuff afterwards..23:15
robtaylormgedmin: step 3: buy a new N800?23:16
Veggenheh. I'm replacing a few servers that 1.5 million customer goes through, tonight. Sort of extreme sysadmining. I didn't know when I got to work today that I had to do it tonight, but looking at the numbers, I said "I can't guarantee *anything* about tomorrow. I advice doing it today."23:16
czrmgedmin, hmm. only take the first and last letter of each word?23:16
mgedminrobtaylor: (a N810 actually... "but I have to upgrade, the old one doesn't work any more"23:16
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robtaylormgedmin: heh :)23:16
czrVeggen, university disintegrating upon you?23:16
czruniverse even..23:16
LinuxCodeczr, Uni does disintegrate you23:17
* czr plans some rotten apples in veggen's servers.23:17
czrLinuxCode, probably. not my piece of cake23:17
LinuxCodeUni = eats your brain23:17
TakTak thinks czr meant: LinuxCode, probably. of cake23:17
Takczr: s/(\w)* \w* \w* \w*/\1/g23:17
Veggenczr: Nah. Just that after new-year, suddenly we'd had a surge in cpu-usage. Maybe it's related to everyone buying and selling stocks, due to the unstable stock markets...23:17
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LinuxCodeczr, rotten apple servers ?23:17
lcuk_2THE CAKE IS A LIE23:17
czrtak, you're evil..23:18
czrVeggen, uhhuh :-)23:18
czrVeggen, so you'll need rotten apple servers23:18
lcuk_2veggen, do it slowly and double check every line23:18
czrspread the joy around.23:18
TakTak thinks czr meant: spreadtejoy around.23:18
Takczr: s/ (\w)\w*(\w) /\1\2/g23:18
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* czr looks for something useful to do23:19
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* czr plants some pink fur on lcuk_2's back23:20
czrdamn I hate my work pipe.23:20
* Tak not doing anything useful either, obviously23:20
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czrI'm loading mirrors of ubuntus and such. both here and there. and there it was completed ages ago (some 40G worth). and here.. it will never be completed..23:21
czr"16954402512 bytes will be downloaded into archive." "Downloading 15988 archive files using 20 threads..."23:21
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czr20 threads? why not one thread per file..23:22
Takone thread per byte; then it will be done instantly23:22
czryou patented that already?23:22
czror I'm free to use that idea?23:22
* Tak scrambles to USPTO23:22
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czrI guess one could use chunked http/1.1 for "byte serving".23:22
* czr scrambles the USPTO23:23
czrhaha. now you will never find it!23:23
* lcuk_2 already wrote one fake patent today23:23
czrpatents are just sad.23:24
* lcuk_2 flaps czr with the pink furr found on his back23:24
* czr likes it23:25
czrflap harder!23:25
Veggenthere are situations where patents are good, but software is not one of them.23:25
czryeah. basmati rice is one of those situations.23:25
VeggenOr alternatively, a software patent could last for 5 years. That'd be a long enough duration.23:25
elbor at least, the current patent terms are ridiculous23:25
TakI disagree that there are any situations anymore where patents are good23:25
* czr agrees with tak23:25
Tama^2I tend to agree with tak23:25
elbthen you don't understand patents23:25
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Takor perhaps you don't understand reality23:26
elbin manufacturing processes, they are still very powerful23:26
elboh, I do23:26
czrit's not possible to develop a system which wouldn't be molested by patent lawyers23:26
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Takpowerful != good23:26
elband I'm informed on more than just software23:26
czrso it's just better to get rid of the whole crap completely.23:26
elbpowerful for the *public*23:26
elbnot for the patent owners23:26
VeggenTak: Maybe it could be solved other ways. Or alternatively, patent abuse should actually be made illegal.23:26
elbtrade secrets are worse than patents23:26
elbin many ways23:26
lcuk_2its not possible to develop ANYTHING which can't be molested my lawyers23:26
czrVeggen, more lawyers? whee.23:26
czrlcuk_2, pink fur.23:26
elbpatent terms are out of hand; 17 years made a lot of sense during the industrial revolution, but today it's multiple product cycles in many industries23:26
czrno lawyers added.23:27
TakVeggen: it's possible that the problem could be solved other ways than complete patent abolition23:27
Veggenczr: Ok, bad idea.23:27
lcuk_2"Yahoo Patents 'Smart' Drag and Drop"    <<<<< WTF??????23:27
elbbut open and complete documentation of revolutionary processes is a *great* think23:27
czrTak, make it illegal to study to become a patent/"IP" lawyer?23:27
Tama^2a patent that involves anything but manufacturing process is silly23:27
VeggenTak: but for example in the medical business, the costs of testing a new drug is actually sky-high.23:27
Takczr: nah, just make it legal to assassinate "IP" lawyers ;-)23:27
elbTama^2: patents covering mechanical apparatus are also reasonable, in many circumstances23:27
czrlcuk_2, it's for dogs! they drag their owners and drop "packages" here and there. and they're pretty smart too.23:27
czrTak, heh. reminds me of an old joke. "what do you call three lawyers at the bottom of the sea?"23:28
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lcuk_2a good start :D23:28
TakI don't buy into the pharmacos' "Testing drugs is SO expensive!" rigamarole23:28
* czr nods23:28
elbTak: the thing is, though, it really is, and that's documented fact23:28
czrTak, there's a limit on how many uppers and downers the managers can take, be reasonable..23:28
lcuk_2tak ,it does cost lots23:28
VeggenTak: At the same time as it's usually ridiculously easy to copy the work of others, because one really need to know what's in a drug.23:28
LinuxCode"what do you call three lawyers at the bottom of the sea?"23:28
elbof course, a lot of that cost is ridiculous government intervention23:28
LinuxCodemafia funeral ?23:29
Tama^2elb: I have to agree with you, except the length of time covered by patents is too long23:29
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lcuk_2because believe it or not, the government doesnt want people killing other people23:29
elbalso, keep in mind that for every compound which succeeds, *thousands* fail23:29
lcuk_2so they regulate it and make sure they cant23:29
LinuxCodelcuk_2, thats a lie23:29
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elbthe low-hanging fruit has been knocked down, as it were23:29
czrLinuxCode, neh. a good start still. who cares who did them into the sea :-)23:29
lcuk_2ok, maybe not the UK gov23:29
elbTama^2: yeah, I've said that at least twice now ;-)23:29
LinuxCodelcuk_2, lol23:29
elblcuk_2: actually, that's not exactly how it plays out23:29
* LinuxCode sends lcuk_2 to army boot camp23:30
elblcuk_2: various lobbies have convinced most first-world governments to do *entirely* unreasonable things with pharmaceuticals23:30
Tama^2elb: I am not *always* reading, I need to get some work done :P23:30
LinuxCodeready for afghanistan23:30
Veggenbut software? I don't think it should be patentable, or alternatively patent protection should be *way* shorter.23:30
Takelb: IMO, first-to-market can completely cover development cost nowadays23:30
LinuxCodeelb, pharma cos are always unreasonable23:30
Veggenand submarine patents should be made illegal.23:30
LinuxCodethey dont want cures for cancer and aids23:30
LinuxCodecures dont make money23:30
elbTak: except that you *have* to publish the compounds you're marketing -- which means second-to-market takes a matter of weeks23:30
LinuxCodetreatments do23:30
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lcuk_2why not, i might make a really novel way of building submarines23:31
Taka matter of weeks is plenty23:31
elbLinuxCode: of course they are, they're government-protected monopolies23:31
LinuxCodeelb, dont say that23:31
elbTak: I think you underestimate the cost of drug development23:31
Veggeni.e once you *should* have known that your patent was becomeing widely used (as in the gif patent, for example), you should lose all protection.23:31
czrlcuk_2, a smart drag and drop submarine?23:31
Takbecause if you come out with a revolutionary new drug, you're going to sell as much as you can produce in those two weeks23:31
LinuxCodethe EU likes to fine people23:31
lcuk_2czr, on the internet23:31
elbTak: only if it's for a common disease23:31
LinuxCodedont mess with the competition commission23:31
czran internet submarine!23:31
VeggenAnd what about the guys who bought the patents from the Xerox Parc guys, recently?23:32
elbTak: you're advocating a system under which rare conditions receive no research or treatment23:32
Takif it's not for a common disease, nobody's going to spend the money to research it anyway23:32
elbright now, that's not the case23:32
Takelb: That's the system we have now.23:32
lcuk_2they are if it effects them23:32
Veggen...suing Linux companies for
LinuxCodeTak, universities do23:32
elbmany drug companies do, as well23:32
LinuxCodeand always did23:32
elbbecause they have 17 years to recoup costs23:32
czrVeggen, didn't hear about that. where's that?23:32
Veggen(suing or threatening, don't remember)23:32
LinuxCodethats what unis are/were for23:32
elband universities really can't compete on the drug-testing fields any more, except in some very special circumstances23:33
Taks/nobody/no company/23:33
lcuk_2unis are for frat parties and naked twister23:33
Veggenczr: it's true. A purely patent company is making threats to that end.23:33
czrVeggen, sad days. once again.23:33
elbmedical schools complain about this endlessly23:33
Veggenczr: In no sane world should that be possible.23:33
elbthey simply can't try enough compounds fast enough23:33
Veggen(let me see if I can find it)23:33
czrVeggen, I know. I'm moving to Mars soon. I'm sick of this shit..23:33
czrVeggen, nm.23:33
elbin any event, this sort of discussion never ends anywhere, so I'll do my part by bowing out ;-)23:33
* czr blames veggen for starting it23:34
* lcuk_2 patents the "method of filling out a patent application on the internet"23:34
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LinuxCodelcuk_2, lool23:34
* czr blames himself for not reading the backlog23:34
* LinuxCode patents the word "at"23:35
* Tak blames czr for not reading the backlog23:35
* czr patents the concept of whitespace23:35
LinuxCodeczr, lool23:35
* elb reboots this machine to try to get its SCSI bus back up23:35
* lcuk_2 also patents "method for reading the backlog over the internet"23:35
Veggenczr: I didn't start it. I think :)23:35
Takczr: I think Guido van Rossum beat you to it23:35
* lcuk_2 is ognna be rich23:35
czrVeggen, yeah, it was me :-)23:35
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czrTak, neh, python = <3 goodness :-)23:35
* LinuxCode patents patents23:35
Takyes, I agree that the goodness of python is less than 323:36
* GeneralAntilles patents blame.23:36
czrlcuk_2, the internet backlog you mean?23:36
* LinuxCode sues all companies for not paying to be able to have a patent23:36
lcuk_2no i dont go on those sorts of sites23:36
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czrno. not internet backstreets..23:36
* LinuxCode gives money to any good free software project23:36
LinuxCodei said good23:37
LinuxCodelol j/k23:37
czrand you said any :-)23:37
lcuk_2didnt vi and emacs build the internet?23:37
czrno. internet was a spawn of ed.23:37
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jsmithczr: No, I"m pretty sure vi is the spawn of ed23:38
czrthey're both23:38
czrinternet = vi.23:38
VeggenI actually write all my documentation in vim :)23:39
LinuxCodewhat that buttler of diania called again ?23:39
VeggenI refuse to follow all these wordisms.23:39
GeneralAntillesDiania is Diana's homeworld?23:39
LinuxCodewe need to pack him inot a capsule and send him to the moon on the Uks first moon mission23:39
czrLinuxCode, I don't think she needs any more butter23:39
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jsmithVeggen: So do I... In fact, I've written *books* in vim23:40
lcuk_2veggen, what are you still doing online anyway - arent you meant to be shittin yourself about now?23:40
VeggenThese days, sharepoint is sort of getting popular. I know there exist a sharepoint somewhere that I think we're supposed to work.23:40
LinuxCodeczr, course not..23:40
Veggeneh, use.23:40
czrGeneralAntilles, yeah, just like Nokia is the land of the small Nok-people.23:40
LinuxCodethat buttler guy is a moron23:40
pupnikyaay for removing -Werror23:40
Veggenlcuk: Oh, I have 1 h 20 minutes for finishing preparations.23:40
czrVeggen, I feel your pain. SPS is the devil's spawn23:40
GeneralAntillesHa . . . BUTTler23:40
VeggenI can waste about half of it.23:40
LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, whats what he is lol23:40
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LinuxCodeI sneaked the t is on purpose23:41
lcuk_2lol vegg - the half life principle works with everything23:41
* czr notices an unauthorized t-sneakery23:41
* LinuxCode puncihes himself by leaving23:41
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LinuxCodeIm off to bed guys..been up since 3am23:42
LinuxCodenn all23:42
lcuk_2nite linux23:42
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lcuk_2right, time for some code from me as well for half hour23:42
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czrsadly, I still have nothing useful to do23:42
lcuk_2i am still pondering the best way to control an active media player in linux (desktop)23:43
lcuk_2in windows i can code up SendKeys(...) and make things work23:43
lcuk_2cant see anything for linux tho23:43
pupniknow can anybody involved in open-source ever be lacking in things to do is a mystery to me23:43
czrpupnik, _useful_..23:44
czrI have things to do. they're just not very useful atm :-)23:44
megabyte405I use rewwwoot/remoot to control media players using a web interface23:44
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megabyte405works really nicely23:44
czrlike verifying bugs and such23:44
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, mpd? or am I missing something?23:44
megabyte405lcuk_2: if you're looking to integrate/control an existing desktop media player, try remoot.  If you just want the PC as a media server, then mpd might be a better pick23:45
lcuk_2GeneralAntilles, i know nothing about linux as i said - ive written a basic remote control for 810 which sends commands to my windows machine and works nicely, but that uses sendkeys to control the active media player23:45
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lcuk_2megabyte405, im just searching for that now23:45
GeneralAntillesYou want the same for a Linux desktop?23:45
megabyte405should do exactly what you want - it's what I use it for23:46
GeneralAntillesI'd just use mpd + mmpc23:46
Tama^2ok, n00b question: I would like to use my n800 as a music player (ipod replacement). Which media player do you suggest? (something that indexes and uses mp3 metadata)23:46
megabyte405I like ukmp23:46
GeneralAntillesI'd try them all yourself, Tama^2.23:46
GeneralAntillesEverybody is gonna give you a different answer.23:46
megabyte405there are lots of options and lots of people have their own favorite for wathever reason23:46
lcuk_2tama, GeneralAntilles is right, go shopping23:46
GeneralAntillesThere really isn't a single _perfect_ media player.23:46
lcuk_2there should be23:46
GeneralAntillesThey all have their strengths and weaknesses that work or don't work for different people.23:46
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GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, there's never gonna be one answer that works for everybody. :P23:47
lcuk_2too many cooking pots mean you are full before you chose your favorite23:47
GeneralAntillesUnless you integrate a lot of different paradigms into one application.23:47
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Tama^2right, I see the point but I mentione ipod replacemtn for a reason23:47
GeneralAntillesPersonally, the built-in Media player works really well for me.23:47
lcuk_2i know GeneralAntilles its like windows has 4 or 5 normal players that people use23:47
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GeneralAntillesI'm impressed with Canola2 so far, but it still needs some more spit'n'polish.23:48
HardandFasti'll be back23:48
Tama^2GeneralAntilles: does it index metadata?23:48
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GeneralAntillesUKMP is pretty cool.23:48
lcuk_2i dont like canola, it feels slow23:48
GeneralAntillesSupport has been dropped, though.23:48
lcuk_2specifally the pictures23:48
GeneralAntillesKagu is another good one.23:48
GeneralAntilleslcuk_2, you didn't use the photo browser under OS2007. :P23:49
GeneralAntillesMedia Center a lot of people seem to like.23:49
* Tak wait for someone to write a sdl-based media player in vala23:49
GeneralAntillesOr OS2005 for that matter. <_<23:49
megabyte405support has been dropped for UKMP?23:49
megabyte405or it just hasnt'seen a up date in a while?23:49
lcuk_2gen, im serious about wanting to lower the bit depth and get speed, i could handle less colors = faster updates for entire experience23:49
megabyte405man, that sucks...23:49
GeneralAntillesKonttori bowed out in favor of Canola23:50
megabyte405seems weird to me - there was just starting to be an apparent community of devs (like, active svn)23:50
GeneralAntillesPlus, he's working at Nokia now.23:50
* lcuk_2 wanders off on a tangent ->>>>>>>>> sorry, all this talk of program choices made me think of speed23:50
lcuk_2back later23:51
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GeneralAntillesHe's off to take some amphetamines, isn't he?23:51
megabyte405meh, it's open source, someone can pick it up if they want to23:51
chrisakdefault media player is great, prolly23:51
lcuk_2no you silly sod, im off to get scratchbox or native compiling working so i can start delving deeper23:52
* lcuk_2 kicks his vmware image and tuts about development environments23:52
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GeneralAntillesSure . . .23:52
TakI was thinking he was off to chat up Sandra Bullock on a bus23:52
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czrlcuk_2, you store your amphetamines in scratchbox?23:52
czrapt-get install "you know what I need"23:53
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Takapt-get install '.*'23:53
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lcuk_2the maemo vmware image:  is it meant to just work out of the box and should i just be able to hit build and get compiled files i can copy out and use directly on my 810?23:57
chrisakBeen researching options for dl'ing usenet binaries.  Is claws a good solution?  Can it handle multipart binary posts?23:58
Veggenlcuk: As far as I know, yes.23:59
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Veggen(if it supports the newest sdk, of course)23:59
czrlcuk_2, 'hit build'? :-)23:59

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