IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-01-15

melmoth	https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?atid=820&group_id=200&func=browse	00:00
melmoth	oups	00:00
maddler	GeneralAntilles: yeo	00:00
maddler	:)	00:00
maddler	yeo = yes	00:00
sp3000	defishguy: happens to some people ...find / file a bug and include your details	00:00
defishguy	sp3000: tx	00:01
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GeneralAntilles	defishguy, it seems to be an issue with one or more of the akamai mirrors.	00:03
inz	tekonivel, that has been suggested before and I almost started implementing it	00:03
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inz	tekonivel, I just haven't had motivation to work on the xterm lately	00:04
defishguy	GeneralAntilles: Do you have the ip of a mirror?	00:05
GeneralAntilles	8.14.56.80	00:07
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GeneralAntilles	That one works for me.	00:07
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hd420	anyone know of a shopping list app for the n800?	00:23
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\|\|cw	hd420: how is that different from a notepad?	00:29
defishguy	GeneralAntilles: fyi. I found the problem. I have a transparent proxy at home and disabling the proxy server opened things up nicely.	00:30
johnx	\|\|cw, maybe little ticky boxes to mark off things you already bought?	00:30
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hd420	\|\|cw: it's more a spreadsheet than a notepad, mate	00:30
\|\|cw	well, gnumeric is available... as is GPE-todo	00:30
\|\|cw	I haven't noticed one specific for shopping though	00:31
hd420	\|\|cw: is openoffice available?	00:31
\|\|cw	OOo is far too fat	00:32
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\|\|cw	gnumeric is pretty good though	00:32
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hd420	hmmph	00:43
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pupnik_	maddler: found a way to turn it off - turn off the autocomplete under language settings	00:48
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spirytusick	\|\|cw: and abiword is just around the corner for os2008	00:49
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spirytusick	time to go...	00:55
spirytusick	c ya all	00:55
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hd420	what's the default password for user on the n800?	01:09
inz	none	01:09
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hd420	inz: sudo works just like that?	01:10
inz	hd, only for certain commands	01:10
hd420	inz: i need to remove packages using apt-get	01:11
hd420	barring that, if there's a way around using apt-get	01:11
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jga23	anybody know how to remap the back key on the n810 to the menu button?	01:12
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jga23	I found this: http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2007/12/31/adding-pipe-and-tab-to-the-n810-keyboard/ with a comment by tajuma, but the key code is missing	01:16
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hd420	hmph	01:19
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jott	jga23: you could use xev to find out keycodes. (menu is F4 btw).	01:26
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\|tbb\|	anyone noticed, that the screen shut off, if u lock the keyboard and screen? But this only works when u have set both minutes to same value on brightness control. does this make sense	01:36
pupnik	no i didn't notice	01:39
pupnik	want me to test?	01:39
\|tbb\|	i would like to know whats the purpose of it	01:40
pupnik	can you tell me how to put n810 to sleep? with 770 i just put the cover on.	01:40
GeneralAntilles	You can edit the behaviour in /etc/mce/mce.ini	01:40
GeneralAntilles	lock it, or let it sit, pupnik.	01:41
\|tbb\|	first i was thinking its a bug cause i have installed abc from rm_you, but know i found out its the settings	01:41
pupnik	ok thanks GeneralAntilles	01:41
GeneralAntilles	\|tbb\|, the delays and timings and such are all editable in /etc/mce/mce.ini	01:41
pupnik	GeneralAntilles: with n810 i find that connecting to many sites in browser yields a long 'connecting....' wait	01:41
pupnik	in 770, when i had wlan, it connected to sites fast	01:42
pupnik	with 810 i sit and wait 30 seconds to connect to a webpage	01:42
GeneralAntilles	Could be the powersaving	01:42
GeneralAntilles	what router do you have?	01:42
pupnik	this was in a bar tonight	01:42
pupnik	clicking mnay times on a link seemed to speed it up	01:43
pupnik	i saw options to extend timeouts	01:43
GeneralAntilles	I'm inclined to blame it on the powersaving with a mediocre router.	01:43
GeneralAntilles	But, who knows.	01:43
jott	dmesg? :P	01:44
GeneralAntilles	^	01:45
pupnik	yeah well... the first thing i missed in my on-the-go n810 test was xchat	01:45
pupnik	irssi is doable with dpkg -i, pidgin SUCKS for irc...	01:45
GeneralAntilles	http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/	01:46
GeneralAntilles	Pidgin sucks in general on the tablets.	01:46
jott	i like irssi on the n810 ;)	01:46
pupnik	cool	01:46
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pupnik	jott, how do you switch servers - on PC it is alt-X	01:46
jott	it's ctrl-x here ..hmm	01:46
pupnik	oh? maybe i am insane	01:47
jott	anyway i'm thinking about mapping Chr to alt, as you just mention alt ..	01:47
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jott	chr is useless anyway :)	01:47
\|tbb\|	when does changes take effect if i changed something in mce.ini	01:47
GeneralAntilles	reboot	01:48
\|tbb\|	reboot with ac plugged in also?	01:48
GeneralAntilles	No	01:49
GeneralAntilles	that wont restart x	01:49
GeneralAntilles	just reboot normally	01:49
pupnik	what is 'chr' for jott?	01:49
pupnik	i was thinking of mapping left shift	01:49
jott	the "Chr" key pops up an addional on-screen bar with extra keys	01:49
\|tbb\|	BlankImmediately=1, will fit in my needs ;)	01:49
jott	maybe one could put this to Fn+Chr ;)	01:51
\|tbb\|	damn, but then the slide out/in will not worked, the screen wake up but not shuts down then ;(	01:51
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GeneralAntilles	Mmm . . . FreeCiv	01:52
joshin	Nitro tha CiMien	01:53
jott	oh Chr is "Multi_key"	01:53
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GeneralAntilles	joshin, stick to one channel when you're pirating.	01:54
pupnik	hmm... well my first test with the n810 on the town tonight was not successful. gorgeous women did not flock to me because of the n810 sexiness.	01:55
joshin	Ummm, what are you seeing? I'm trying to send some XP drivers to someone in a different channel.	01:55
GeneralAntilles	<joshin>Nitro tha CiMien	01:55
GeneralAntilles	Hahaha, pupnik.	01:56
joshin	Bizarre.	01:56
hachi	I'm having issues where everything... and I mean everything seems to crash on my n810	01:56
jott	pupnik: she probably thought you would surf porn sites :P	01:56
hachi	the mail client, pidgin, maps	01:56
GeneralAntilles	hachi, are you using virtual memory?	01:56
hachi	they just silently close far too much	01:56
hachi	no I'm not, does that actually help?	01:56
GeneralAntilles	Is your internal flash corrupted?	01:56
hachi	the idea of using VM on flash scares the crap outta me :)	01:57
GeneralAntilles	Well corrupted flash + VM means lots of crashing.	01:57
GeneralAntilles	Eh, it's not very swappy.	01:57
hachi	no VM	01:57
GeneralAntilles	So it hardly writes to the flash.	01:57
GeneralAntilles	Have you tried a restart? :P	01:57
hachi	yeah	01:57
hachi	this seemed to get worse with the update from last... friday?	01:58
hachi	but I only had the device a few days before that	01:58
hachi	so I don't know	01:58
GeneralAntilles	50-2?	01:58
hachi	yeah	01:58
GeneralAntilles	It's older than that.	01:58
GeneralAntilles	fwiw, the built-in mail client is shit	01:58
hachi	it is? the news I saw announcing it was the DAY that I started talking about it	01:58
GeneralAntilles	crashes a LOT	01:58
hachi	modest is crashing too	01:59
GeneralAntilles	modest is in flux	01:59
hachi	but what bothers me is that they silently shut down	01:59
GeneralAntilles	"Map" is also shit.	01:59
hachi	syslog is really noisy, I'm gonna try to filter that down and log it to flash	01:59
GeneralAntilles	Pidgin I don't use because it's a rather poor solution on Hildon.	01:59
lcuk_2	defishwell arent we a great bunch of nokia fanboys!	02:00
pupnik	maybe pidgin is ok for IM	02:00
hachi	yeah, but telepathy's non-purple xmpp connector doesn't support anything but SASL auth	02:00
lcuk_2	-defish	02:00
pupnik	for irc, it needs standard command line commands - /connect /join ...	02:00
hachi	so I can't use the builtin IM client for 3 of the 3 xmpp networks I use	02:00
GeneralAntilles	hachi, did you file a bug?	02:01
hachi	and yes, this is my own damned fault cause I'm the only active maintainer of the jabber server left, but still... I'm lazy :)	02:01
hachi	no need to file a bug, it's my own fault	02:01
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GeneralAntilles	Well, isn't it something it should support anyway?	02:02
mardi_	anyone give me reason why should boot of SD card?	02:02
hachi	I don't know, they also have a libpurple connector, I should ask them if their plan is to switch to libpurple or not	02:03
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hachi	if I enable VM, does it use the MTD, the MMC or the SD card for VM?	02:03
GeneralAntilles	mardi_, having a backup that you can switch to easily is a good reason	02:03
GeneralAntilles	otherwise, there's not much point.	02:03
GeneralAntilles	hachi, I don't know on the N810.	02:04
mardi_	I see most of the guides tell you how to setup boot from 2GB SD card, mines a 4GB. What size partitions should I set for things, would you recomend?	02:04
\|tbb\|	i wonder why connection trough ssh to my n810 take so long, i mean that time before i can type the password, about 10 seconds	02:05
GeneralAntilles	It's weird like that every once and a while	02:06
GeneralAntilles	Reboot solves it for me.	02:06
GeneralAntilles	Only happens about once a month.	02:06
\|tbb\|	then your more lucky than me	02:07
jott	hachi: the internal mmc is used for swap, but you could also create a custom swap partition..	02:07
ds3	okay, what is the expect behavior with a bluetooth keyboard - there doesn't seem to be a menu option to connect to a BT keyboard like with the kbdd driver in OS2007?	02:07
hachi	jott, that's fine, I just wasn't sure whether it was the mtd or the mmc	02:07
hachi	I may create my own :)	02:07
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GeneralAntilles	Initial pairing or general usage, ds3?	02:08
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ds3	GeneralAntilles: general usage	02:08
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ds3	it is pair, and it worked that time	02:08
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GeneralAntilles	Type on the keyboard to wake it from sleep and either close it or let it idle for 3 minutes to disconnect.	02:08
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ds3	oh so I do not need to manually manage it?	02:09
\|tbb\|	ive noticed if im online but not much traffic goes through the wlan and then i try to ping to the router, it takes 3-4 seconds before i get response, if i try it again, seconds later it give me response in a hurry	02:09
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\|tbb\|	is this powersave?	02:09
GeneralAntilles	No, ds3.	02:09
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GeneralAntilles	\|tbb\|, shouldn't be.	02:09
ds3	cool	02:09
GeneralAntilles	Could be if the router has poor powersaving support, though, I suppose.	02:09
hachi	GeneralAntilles: what is the powersaving called, is there a spec or anything?	02:10
GeneralAntilles	Probably	02:10
GeneralAntilles	Dunno, though.	02:10
lcuk_2	does anyone know if a powered hub with a nokia charging attachment will actually charge the device?	02:10
hachi	I run a custom AP and I haven't been able to figure out what the settings are related to... I figured it ws the becon interval mostly	02:10
hachi	but I'm not sure	02:10
ds3	that could be ARP delays	02:12
GeneralAntilles	How do you mean, lcuk_2? N800 <- USB-to-barrel -> Powered hub?	02:12
lcuk_2	n810 but yes	02:12
GeneralAntilles	Should	02:12
lcuk_2	cool	02:13
GeneralAntilles	It'll be a little slower than the wallwart	02:13
GeneralAntilles	but, yeah.	02:13
lcuk_2	as long as it goes up on average thats fine	02:13
* lcuk_2 finds a plug near his desk		02:14
Delio	the charger form nokia has a 980mA rating while an USB port has a maximum current of 500mA	02:15
lcuk_2	if i disconnect can some1 tell me because i cant see my screen and i will have got the wrong one	02:15
Delio	it may be not healthy for your hub to charge an N8x0	02:15
lcuk_2	;)	02:15
lcuk_2	the hub is a £5 wonder horse	02:15
lcuk_2	i dun care about its health as long as it doesnt blow me up	02:15
Delio	correction: the wall charger's rating is 890mA	02:16
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\|tbb\|	GeneralAntilles: do you know how to control the backlight of the keyboard?	02:16
GeneralAntilles	Delio, the car chargers are rated for about 360mA	02:16
lcuk_2	i dont understand why we cant just charge from usb and be done with it	02:16
ds3	is this going to turn into the modern version the mouse's revenge (where the home owner tries to burn a mouse but the flaming mouse runs in and burns down the house)?	02:16
GeneralAntilles	\|tbb\|, N810 specific stuff is not my field. ;)	02:16
lcuk_2	are you gettin one ant?	02:17
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_2, probably some complication with host-mode and the fact that USB doesn't provide nearly as much power as the barrel.	02:17
GeneralAntilles	Pfft	02:17
Delio	GeneralAntilles: ah, interesting. OK then it should work	02:17
GeneralAntilles	the N810 is garbage	02:17
GeneralAntilles	Delio, and it does charge when it's plugged in in the car playing mp3s and doing GPS.	02:17
* lcuk_2 was attracted by the shiney and now is hooking up a keyboard, you do the math		02:18
GeneralAntilles	There's no advantage over the N800.	02:18
GeneralAntilles	Just less storage and more cost.	02:18
* GeneralAntilles wants his N900.		02:18
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* ds3 wishes for a more modern Z instead ;)		02:19
Juhaz	charging 770 from various power sources including but not limited to several usb ports, 4x1.5V AA batteries, ..., bit on both sides of 5V and varying amperage hasn't hurt either the device or said power sources	02:19
Juhaz	but perhaps n8xx are more picky	02:19
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lcuk_2	i am happy about having a keyboard even if it is not perfect - i tried the onscreen one and would not be able to use it	02:19
lcuk_2	and i couldnt carry around a bt one	02:20
ds3	why not carry around a BT kb?	02:20
* lcuk_2 could still kill the guy who missed off the tab key		02:20
\|tbb\|	lcuk_2: tell me if you have found them, he should learn how to use shell	02:22
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_2, it's a matter of practice	02:22
GeneralAntilles	The onscreen thumbboard is actually very good once you get a feel for its quirks.	02:22
GeneralAntilles	I do about 35wpm on average	02:23
lcuk_2	i bet you do but it covers up most of the screen	02:23
lcuk_2	have you seen this strange one which shows through the screen and you type from the back	02:24
lcuk_2	not nokia btw	02:24
GeneralAntilles	Which is why I've been arguing for a transparency.	02:24
lcuk_2	since you know it so well could you cope with a fine layout on a transparent antiscratch cover	02:25
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lcuk_2	as in the KB doesnt actually show up on screen you just bash where it should be as usual	02:25
GeneralAntilles	Can't touch type without separate keys. :P	02:26
lcuk_2	but your thumbs must have muscle memory	02:27
GeneralAntilles	Not without some sort of calibration.	02:28
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GeneralAntilles	Which are the keys on a real keyboard or the screen on the N800.	02:28
lcuk_2	just a thought..	02:30
lcuk_2	wheres the best place to put a shell script which i can just open term and run without specifying a path?	02:30
lcuk_2	or the inverse, how do i find the current path	02:31
GeneralAntilles	Well, you should add /usr/local/bin to the search path	02:31
lcuk_2	and search thing	02:31
GeneralAntilles	and stick stuff there	02:31
GeneralAntilles	or just use /usr/bin	02:31
jott	or ~/bin .. or PATH=$PATH:/whatever ;)	02:31
lcuk_2	/usr/local/bin - would that be just for my user or would it work if i ssh'ed in?	02:32
lcuk_2	(as root)	02:32
jott	if you extend the path in /etc/profile its global	02:32
lcuk_2	thanks ill take a look	02:33
* lcuk_2 still has a lot to learn		02:33
* jott throws a big and heavy linux/unix book at lcuk_2		02:33
\|tbb\|	anyone else got this, keyboard blight goes out and not on anymore, before slidein/out the keyboard	02:34
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lcuk_2	tbb - i get it flashing	02:34
lcuk_2	jott, thanks is that in fbreader format?	02:34
jott	lcuk_2: you'll probably find a good one (or at least could convert it)	02:35
\|tbb\|	lcuk_2: ?	02:35
lcuk_2	keyboard flashes at me if i catch it as its going off and i need to open close it	02:36
lcuk_2	timings for the backlight are awful	02:36
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\|tbb\|	ah k	02:37
lcuk_2	there isnt a centralised power profile settings area for this device is there	02:38
lcuk_2	as in, screen, keyboard backlight, network connection even clock speed	02:38
* lcuk_2 wonders if its hiding away		02:39
GeneralAntilles	The mildly funny thing about /usr/local is that it's stuff that the OS shouldn't touch during upgrades	02:41
GeneralAntilles	except we do all of our upgrades by writing over the rootfs.	02:41
pupnik	GeneralAntilles: what would you think of FN+Space = Tab?	02:41
pupnik	and one of the shift buttons = alt?	02:42
GeneralAntilles	Sounds fine to me, but I've only used the N810's keyboard once.	02:42
ds3	so /usr/local should reside on yet another mtd partition }:-)	02:42
jott	i have Fn+Backspace=Tab	02:42
lcuk_2	pup - are you on 810 and have you considered the centre D pad	02:42
jott	works quite nice	02:42
\|tbb\|	fn+backspace shows desktop for me ;)	02:43
jott	is there actually some documentation (or reverse engineering) of the dsmesock stuff?	02:44
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\|tbb\|	gnite everyone	02:50
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blackmad	is there a way to kkill maemo_af_desktop without rebooting the device?	03:08
GeneralAntilles	Connect a bluetooth keyboard?	03:12
blackmad	when I ssh in and kill the maemo_af_desktop process, the system reboots	03:12
GeneralAntilles	That would be the hardware watchdog	03:13
GeneralAntilles	why do you want to kill it?	03:13
blackmad	because I don't want to ever see the desktop, trying to have the device open up, play a video and then go blank	03:15
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GeneralAntilles	You'll have to disable the watchdog with the flasher	03:15
GeneralAntilles	but then you're about 10x more likely to brick your device.	03:15
blackmad	how so? can't I always yank out the battery?	03:15
* lcuk_2 thinks thats very user friendly		03:17
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lcuk_2	whos got host mode working on 8x0? and why would a keyboard work earlier but not now? ive checked everything i can out - host mode works, a usb mem stick operates directly, the hub works mem stick through there as well, the keyboard works, checked with this windows device. on 810 though now the caps lock light works only	03:20
lcuk_2	ive tried rebooting and changing back to host mode with the /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode script cos without it nothing works..	03:21
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msh	lcuk_2: it's not using a ps2-usb adapter is it?	03:28
lcuk_2	no, its a brand new (tho cheap) usb hub - the KB was working perfectly without it earlier tho	03:29
lcuk_2	it continued to work with it as well after i connected	03:29
ds3	the N800 with OS2008 works with SDHC cards right?	03:30
lcuk_2	ahhh msh - no, its a direct 100% usb connection to the keyboard	03:30
lcuk_2	logitech barebones plainjane keyboard, no multimedia functions	03:30
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lcuk_2	the one difference, earlier the caps lock light did not light but worked. now it lights when pressed but the rest of the board doesnt	03:31
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blackmad	oh, neat, I can just open a new X session	03:35
blackmad	now, is there xsetbg compiled for the 770?	03:35
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lcuk_2	hmmmmmmm i bashed the keys it rebooted - now its back on its working - i think the usb chip got a bit muddled	03:39
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blackmad	xsetroot? anyone?	03:48
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blackmad	why doesn't xsetroot actually change the color?	03:53
blackmad	uit flashes the screen and then it stays white	03:53
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hachi	in full sun will the n810 power down the backlight because it knows ahead of time that it can't handle driving it bright enough?	04:07
hachi	I live in SF, haven't had a chance to test it in full sun yet :)	04:07
Delio	O.o	04:08
lcuk_2	if you are anything like me then you will disable it before you get the chance (disable = putting a sticker over it because the changing brightness will annoy you)	04:08
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Delio	Is the weather in SF so crappy or you guys have boreal winter darkness at lower latitudes these days? ;-P	04:09
hachi	nah, it's fine for me	04:10
hachi	no, but we don't get full sun right now	04:10
hachi	we get this... foggy/cloudy sun in the winter	04:10
hachi	there will be a sunny day sometime here	04:10
hachi	have you ever heard the joke "the coldest winter was a summer I spent in san francisco" ?	04:11
* GeneralAntilles likes sun.		04:11
hachi	:)	04:11
Delio	First time I hear the joke, funny :)	04:11
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lophyte	hi all, can't seem to get usb host mode working with os2008 on my n800... is it just a matter of 'echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb/hdrc/mode' ?	04:57
petergunn	I used a modified mini-A cable that switched automatically	05:00
lophyte	I modified a mini-A cable to have a female connector rather than a male connector	05:00
lophyte	I'm trying to plug in a USB flash drive but its not doing anything	05:00
petergunn	u sure its a mini-A? it wont fit in the mini-B slot in the n800 without mods	05:01
lophyte	er, sorry...	05:01
lophyte	I basically took the USB cable that came with the N800, hacked off the end, and soldered on a female connector	05:01
petergunn	ah - then u definately need to switch manually	05:02
petergunn	before connecting cable	05:02
lophyte	by just echoing host into that path?	05:02
lophyte	or is there something else?	05:02
petergunn	nope should just be the echo - check the path is right	05:03
lophyte	it is..	05:03
lophyte	hmm	05:03
lophyte	do I need extra kernel modules to handle usb storage devices? or a modified kernel?	05:04
petergunn	nope os2008 is fine	05:04
petergunn	u did flash right?	05:04
lophyte	yeah	05:04
* petergunn brb		05:04
lophyte	I flashed os2008 on it a few nights ago	05:04
lophyte	the latest image	05:04
lophyte	only thing I notice is this...	05:05
lophyte	when I echo host, and then cat that file, it says 'a_wait_bcon'	05:05
lophyte	then I plug the cable in with a USB flash drive attached	05:05
lophyte	and it changes to 'a_idle'	05:05
lophyte	but thats it	05:05
petergunn	echo host> /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode	05:08
lophyte	yeah that's what I'm doing	05:09
petergunn	not what u wrote before	05:09
lophyte	ahh	05:09
lophyte	yeah I wrote that from memory	05:09
lophyte	I meant _	05:09
petergunn	u doig it as root right?	05:09
lophyte	yup	05:09
petergunn	might be worth trying the wiki scripts	05:10
petergunn	http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_USB_Host_mode_on_the_N800_using_OS_2008	05:10
petergunn	Host.sh	05:10
petergunn	u sure u wired it right?	05:12
petergunn	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=117499&highlight=a_wait_bcon#post117499	05:12
Delio	petergunn: you said something about an auto switching cable before (?)	05:14
Delio	can you clarify or tell me more, pls	05:14
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petergunn	Yup on n800s u can use a modified mini-A usb cable	05:14
petergunn	just modify the end so it fits in the slot	05:14
petergunn	or use a mini-B (like the one you got with the n800) and short pins 4+5	05:15
petergunn	just plug in and go	05:15
petergunn	u just reminded me - was going to plug in a usb->net to see what happens	05:16
Delio	thanks, petergunn	05:20
Delio	now I will have to refresh my memory about what is the difference between mini a and mini b cables	05:20
petergunn	not enuf power for usb->net :/	05:20
Delio	(i.e. I want to figure our why it works automatically)	05:20
petergunn	mini-a is white end doesnt fit into mini-b without mod (i.e. file it down a bit on the sides)	05:21
petergunn	mini-a has pin-5 shorted to pin-4 - os2008 detects and switches to host mode	05:21
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Delio	cheers	05:23
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lophyte	hm, no luck	05:38
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penguinbait	anyone recommend a good hosting company? with lots of bandwidth at a low price :)	05:39
lophyte	there's no way to just plug the n800 into a hub and use that for usb host mode is there?	05:40
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kriebel	while you can plug it into a hub, hubs are not hosts	05:55
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dragorn	kriebel: have you tested with a hub? The OTG chipset isn't supposed to support hubs. I had little luck in my tests.	06:05
dragorn	lophyte: you can set it to host mode via sysfs	06:05
dragorn	lophyte: find /sys -name \musb\ .. I forget the exact path.	06:06
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Mooler	anybody know if the NuvoPearl theme was ever ported to OS2008	06:08
GeneralAntilles	Not so far	06:08
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Mooler	beautiful theme that was	06:09
GeneralAntilles	Plankton is better. :P	06:09
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Mooler	I do like Plankton I have to say myself	06:09
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GeneralAntilles	The built-in themes in OS2008 are the first ones that haven't been completely awful.	06:17
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skibur	Does anybody have the orginal RSS FEEDs that nokia preintalled?	07:06
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skibur	hell?	07:14
bender183	sorry about that	07:14
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hachi	anyone have an idea how long an n810 lasts once battery is 'low' ?	07:31
hachi	brand new	07:31
hachi	I suppose I could ssh into it and see if there are acpi battery stats	07:31
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tank-man	click the battery icon and it will give an estimate	07:35
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kulve	http://intr.overt.org/2.2008.50-mmc-kernel/	08:16
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qnr	Hmmm... ok, I changed the machine name in /etc/hosts (but not in hostname) ... now, I can't do a sudo gainroot to change it back, since it comes back with "unable to lookup (oldhostname) via gethostbyname()" .. any recommendations?	08:21
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qnr	I've restored from my last backup, that didn't help	08:21
* qnr tries booting from flash to see if he can mount and edit the mmc card that holds /etc		08:24
melmoth	setting a fake dns server that would give the old hostnampe ip ?	08:27
qnr	hmmm	08:28
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qnr	well, currently, it doesn't the ip address is assigned to the wireless access point :/ not to the n800	08:31
qnr	well, I could figure this out, but I've been putting off installing OS2008 on that card... I should probably do that now that things are a little mixed up	08:32
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unique311	is there a reason why xmame for maemo is at 0.58 and the version made available on the xmame site is at 0.106?	09:03
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qnr	For future reference, I was able to gain root by rapidly scrolling up and hitting return a number of times (took many more times because the last command in my root history was "reboot" lol )	09:07
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astro76	unique311: the 0.58 is the last version before some changes which made emulation more accurate but slower	10:14
astro76	this version is often used on low end machines	10:14
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unique311	ok	10:16
unique311	no roms work on this version	10:17
astro76	well, they can be found, or you can possibly convert yours using clrmamepro and a 0.58 dat file	10:17
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Tama^2	some do work	10:19
unique311	clrmamepro	10:20
unique311	cool	10:20
unique311	now this dat file	10:20
unique311	i've been looking for it	10:20
astro76	hmm 0.36 was the old version I was thinking of, but I assume it's the same reason with 0.58	10:20
unique311	can't located it	10:20
unique311	maybe thats my problem, huh	10:20
Tama^2	usually the same shady places where you can find roms :P	10:20
unique311	so it doesn't come with the DAT file	10:21
astro76	also, there's something called rollback sets which will contain any missing roms to make your new sets into the old sets	10:21
unique311	ok	10:21
astro76	still need the dat	10:21
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unique311	and the DAT goes in /usr/share/games/xmame?	10:21
astro76	no it's used with clrmamepro which is a windows program	10:22
astro76	it does work in wine though	10:22
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unique311	will give it a try	10:22
unique311	thanks	10:23
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hachi	maemo-launcher on my n810 is taking up 100% of the cpu, how can I figure out what's causing this?	10:28
hachi	strace is showing it talking over dbus to flash the led	10:30
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Tama^2	it's probably invoking the builtin email client ;)	10:30
hachi	I think it's invoking modest	10:31
proteous	I invoke panic :/	10:31
hachi	well, this isn't good at all... I reduced my inbox to 1200 messages total and it still can't handle it?	10:32
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djcb	modest does not use maemo-launcher	10:33
hachi	the builtin email client has no config	10:33
djcb	well, whatever maemo-launcher is doing, it's not starting modest	10:33
hachi	{"\31\0\0\0PatternCommunicationEmail\0", 30}	10:34
hachi	modest is running, and I just rebooted it	10:34
hachi	didn't launch	10:34
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hachi	oooh, notifications.db	10:36
hachi	I can customize my colors using sqlite	10:36
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Piotras	hi	10:36
Piotras	stupid question: how can I install libreadline5-dev inside scratchbox ( ARM target ) quickly ?	10:37
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hachi	how is claws-mail for usability?	10:53
GeneralAntilles	It's fine.	10:54
GeneralAntilles	Little heavy	10:54
GeneralAntilles	but it works well.	10:54
hachi	well, modest is causing maemo-launcher to take up tons of cpu :\	10:54
hachi	can't figure out why it was taking up so much cpu	10:55
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hachi	the strace wasn't showing all that many dbus calls being made.... it was spending a lot of time doing an internal calculation	10:55
hachi	oh you are kidding me	10:56
hachi	I have ltrace on this platform?	10:56
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hachi	anyone got pand working on OS 2008?	11:14
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Java-Jim	Hi! I just discovered the dmsetool on my N770 device. Is the source code for this application available?	11:27
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GeneralAntilles	Java-Jim, no.	11:29
Java-Jim	GeneralAntilles: Ah, too bad.	11:30
GeneralAntilles	Verily	11:31
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Jaffa	There's "powertool" which is an open source replacement, IIRC	11:33
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Java-Jim	Jaffa: Do you have an URL for that? "powertool" is a little too generic for Google... :)	11:35
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jku	how usable is the SDK+ now?	11:36
jku	I tried a simple project and it was fine, but the build compat list on the SDK+ project page say 30% of packages in maemo repository fail...	11:36
Jaffa	Java-Jim: powerlaunch, sorry. Seems to replace mce rather than dsme: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/32773?search_string=mce;#32773	11:38
hachi	anyone have scummvm games working? I dug out my old samnmax floppies and can't get it going :)	11:39
Tama^2	Sam and mac cd version works for me	11:39
hachi	I never found the CDRom edition for sale	11:39
hachi	was it full talkie?	11:39
Tama^2	yes, I think so	11:40
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michele_	hachi: cough torrents cough	11:42
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hachi	do I have to do something to make talkie work on the maemo build?	11:49
hachi	or is it disabled?	11:49
Java-Jim	Jaffa: Thank you!	11:50
Tama^2	it worked out of the box for me	11:50
hachi	okie	11:51
Tama^2	uncompress it of course	11:51
hachi	uncompress the audio?	11:51
Tama^2	no the archive with the game in it	11:51
hachi	I just have a MONSTER.SOU	11:51
Tama^2	that's fine	11:51
hachi	yeah, I actually own the games still, so no need :)	11:51
Tama^2	I pointed SCUMMVM at the directory with the game and it recognized the game and version	11:52
Tama^2	I own it too :) but it's in some drawer on the other side of the planet xD	11:52
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hachi	so, there's map data on the mmc that came with the device, am I able to get that data again later, or should I back it up?	11:55
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hachi	oh, apparently the talkie part is missing at the beginning of the game	11:56
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GeneralAntilles	You can download it again.	11:57
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hachi	I thought this device couldn't play vorbis files natively, but then the mapping application has all its audio encoded in vorbis?	12:03
hachi	or is the media player app just dumb that way?	12:04
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pupnik_	hachi, well it's software	12:05
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Khertan	Hi	12:21
Spakman	Hi	12:23
maddler	hi	12:24
kulve	Hi	12:25
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hachi	EHLO	12:30
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Khertan	hachi> 501 Syntax: EHLO hostname	12:44
Khertan	:)	12:44
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mardi_	anyone followed this guide to install KDE on SD > http://www.thisweekinnuclear.com/KDEonN800.html	12:57
* mardi_ is a bit stuck		12:57
Nermal	where are you stuck ?	12:58
mardi_	these commands fail >	12:58
mardi_	# insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/mbcache.ko	12:58
mardi_	# insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ext2.ko	12:58
mardi_	with "file exists" message	12:58
mardi_	N800, OS2008, 4GB card in external slot	12:59
nomis	mardi_: then these kernel modules are already loaded into the kernel.	12:59
Nermal	probably means the modules are already loaded	12:59
nomis	mardi_: "lsmod" should show you them.	12:59
mardi_	mkdir /opt/ then says "cannot create"	12:59
Nermal	are you root ?	12:59
mardi_	SSH'ed in, logged in as root	13:00
Nermal	uh .. don't put a trailing / on	13:00
Nermal	so mkdir /opt	13:00
Nermal	maybe	13:00
mardi_	same message	13:01
Nermal	hum :Z	13:01
mardi_	lsmod output..	13:01
mardi_	Nokia-N800-50-2:~# lsmod	13:01
mardi_	Module Size Used by	13:01
mardi_	ext2 51080 0 - Live 0xbf085000	13:01
mardi_	ext3 107304 0 - Live 0xbf069000	13:01
mardi_	jbd 51592 1 ext3, Live 0xbf05b000	13:01
mardi_	mbcache 7108 2 ext2,ext3, Live 0xbf058000	13:01
mardi_	g_file_storage 27560 0 - Live 0xbf050000	13:01
mardi_	cx3110x 56200 0 - Live 0xbf041000	13:01
mardi_	umac 258788 1 cx3110x, Live 0xbf000000 (P)	13:01
mardi_	Nokia-N800-50-2:~#	13:01
Nermal	well they're loaded	13:02
Nermal	do you have space on /	13:02
mardi_	could you please explain "space on /"	13:02
Nermal	do you have space on the device	13:02
Nermal	what does df -h \|grep 4 show you ?	13:03
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mardi_	Nokia-N800-50-2:~# df -h \|grep 4	13:05
mardi_	none 512.0k 92.0k 420.0k 18% /mnt/initfs/tmp	13:05
mardi_	none 512.0k 92.0k 420.0k 18% /tmp	13:05
mardi_	Nokia-N800-50-2:~# /dev/mtdblock4 2.0M 2.0M 0 100% /mnt/initfs	13:06
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mardi_	-sh: /dev/mtdblock4: Permission denied	13:06
mardi_	Nokia-N800-50-2:~# none 512.0k 92.0k 420.0k 18% /mnt/initfs/tmp	13:06
mardi_	-sh: none: not found	13:06
mardi_	Nokia-N800-50-2:~# /dev/mtdblock4 251.5M 228.2M 23.3M 91% /	13:06
mardi_	-sh: /dev/mtdblock4: Permission denied	13:06
mardi_	Nokia-N800-50-2:~# none 512.0k 92.0k 420.0k 18% /tmp	13:06
mardi_	-sh: none: not found	13:06
mardi_	Nokia-N800-50-2:~#	13:06
Nermal	ok - so you have 23.3 mb free on /	13:07
Nermal	which should be ok	13:07
mardi_	which line tells you that?	13:07
Nermal	Nokia-N800-50-2:~# /dev/mtdblock4 251.5M 228.2M 23.3M 91% /	13:07
mardi_	ahh, I see	13:08
mardi_	should I worry about the permission denied messages?	13:08
Nermal	no	13:08
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Nermal	I don;t think so	13:08
Nermal	hmm.. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to make that dir :(	13:09
mardi_	so that 256mb is the memoy in the N800?	13:09
Nermal	yup	13:09
Dist	Uhh, what did you paste??	13:09
mardi_	and the 512? is that the partition I created on the SD card?	13:09
Nermal	no - that's 512k	13:09
mardi_	opps	13:09
Nermal	not sure where the sd card is - you should try the same df -h but don't put the grep in	13:10
Nermal	and don't paste all the output ;)	13:10
Nermal	use pastebin.ca for large pastes	13:10
Dist	Did you paste your df output to your shell and pasted output of that here? =D	13:10
Nermal	can you paste the output of the command "mount" to pastebin ?	13:10
Nermal	Dist, aye :\|	13:10
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mardi_	df -h does not show much :/	13:13
Nermal	/dev/mmcblk0p1 3.7G 3.1G 651.1M 83% /media/mmc2	13:14
Nermal	I see that on mine for my SD card	13:14
florian	re	13:14
mardi_	http://pastebin.ca/855895	13:14
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Nermal	ok your sd card isn't mounted	13:15
Nermal	have you tried removing it and inserting it again ?	13:15
Nermal	though that still doesn't explain why you can't mkdir /opt/ :\|	13:16
Nermal	oh duh - it already exists	13:16
Nermal	thats probably why :D	13:16
Nermal	do an ls /	13:16
Nermal	and you should see a directory called opt	13:16
Nermal	if so - skip that mkdir step :)	13:16
mardi_	doh!	13:17
mardi_	when I was trying it actually on the device I did check with ls and there was no opt	13:17
mardi_	but yes from remote SSH there is opt	13:18
Nermal	you might need some more space on / though for kde	13:18
Nermal	so you might need to remove some programs (or things like the pdf manuals / demo video)	13:18
mardi_	just rebooting it	13:19
mardi_	did I do the right this to partition 4gb SD with 3.5 and 0.5 partitions?	13:20
Nermal	I think so - but I've not installed kde on mine	13:21
mardi_	thanks - just uninstalling stuff	13:21
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mardi_	on shutdown, get a message saying memory card corrupt or unformatted :/	13:24
Khertan	Hi again	13:24
michele_	so is anybody using sardine?	13:24
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mardi_	and now not seeing the boot menu	13:24
b0unc3	good morning	13:24
Khertan	michele_> last time it was a total failure :)	13:24
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Khertan	michele_> why ?	13:25
Nermal	mardi_, :(I	13:26
mardi_	start again?	13:26
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michele_	Khertan: just wondering how stable it was	13:27
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Nermal	mardi_, you'll need to partition it and format it	13:28
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mardi_	ok - brb	13:28
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michele_	Khertan: don't you have a repository for your packages?	13:37
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mardi_	yay! card looks properly formatted	13:43
mardi_	still cannot do the mkdir /opt/ though :/ http://pastebin.ca/855908	13:43
Nermal	because it's already there	13:43
Nermal	you're doing ls in /home/user	13:44
mardi_	but ls does not show it ?	13:44
Nermal	not in /	13:44
Nermal	do cd /	13:44
johnx	ls /	13:44
Nermal	and then ls	13:44
mardi_	ahh, I see	13:44
mardi_	so continue and don't worry about it then I guess	13:44
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Nermal	yah	13:44
johnx	also, pwd tells you what dir you are in now	13:45
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jku	how does gpsdriver start getting a fix -- does gpsd do some voodoo or what?	14:28
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alterego	gpsd is started when a program requests to use it.	14:33
alterego	The GPS module is then activated and it's the module that gets the fix.	14:34
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\|tbb\|	alterego: even if its not fix ;)	14:39
mgedmin	gpsd conflicts with maemo mapper, doesn't it?	14:39
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alterego	No,	14:41
alterego	maemo mapper uses gpsd.	14:41
\|tbb\|	its really neat switching between map(or navap) and maemo-mapper and both works	14:43
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alterego	Yeah	14:44
alterego	maemo-mapper is awesome :)	14:44
mgedmin	hmm	14:44
jku	alterego, thanks. I'm wondering _how_ the module gets activated	14:44
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mgedmin	when I tried telling maemo-mapper to use gpsd, it didn't find one	14:45
alterego	jku, that would be a driver issue.	14:45
alterego	mgedmin, it needs to be started by the 'map' application.	14:45
mgedmin	that sucks	14:45
alterego	Or something else that knows how to activate it.	14:45
mgedmin	I have to start maps so that I can use maemo-mapper?	14:45
alterego	The author of maemo-mapper hasn't had a chance to play with gpsd activation on maemo.	14:45
jku	I can't see anything that would activate the driver in gpsd...	14:46
mgedmin	where is it documented, btw?	14:46
alterego	In the maemo documentation section.	14:46
jku	and libgpsmgr sources are missing again, so I don't know if it's in there actually	14:47
alterego	Yes, it'll be in there.	14:47
alterego	More than likely anyhow.	14:47
jku	alterego, in libgpsmgr?	14:47
alterego	Probably, I don't see why it matters though ..	14:48
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Cptnodegard	grrrrrrrr	14:49
Cptnodegard	buggy usb host on keyboard	14:49
jku	I want to use another gps daemon, in which case I don't need libgpsmgr...	14:49
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\|tbb\|	mgedmin: you dont need to start map application	14:51
\|tbb\|	do you got a n810?	14:51
mgedmin	n800	14:51
mgedmin	bluetooth gps	14:51
mgedmin	maemo-mapper connects to it, I get a popup 'enable gps'; if I click yes, maemo-mapper loses connection	14:51
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\|tbb\|	ah, k then i dont know. on n810 you have to just leave the bluetooth mac address empty and anything works fine	14:52
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Cptnodegard	http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/PICT0111.jpg	14:55
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GeneralAntilles	Time to clean your screen. :P	14:57
Cptnodegard	nah time to take pics without flash	14:57
johnx	looks great	14:58
Cptnodegard	but the "usb kb disables onscreen kb" bug is killing me	14:58
GeneralAntilles	Does it come back after you unplug the keyboard?	14:58
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Cptnodegard	nop	14:58
Cptnodegard	thats the bug	14:58
GeneralAntilles	Anything on bugzilla about it?	14:59
Cptnodegard	theres a thread on ITT about it where someone is asking to bugzilla it, but i dont know fi they did	14:59
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Veggen	wee.	15:02
Veggen	<--got his n810. 24 1/2 hour from the courier got it until it was in my hands. That's	15:03
Veggen	not too bad.	15:03
Cptnodegard	kjøpt fra hvor?	15:04
Cptnodegard	og pris	15:04
Veggen	Nokia, 379 euro pluss frakt etc.	15:05
Veggen	(shippet fra Belgia)	15:05
Cptnodegard	au	15:05
Cptnodegard	toll	15:05
Veggen	jepp. toll blir det.	15:05
Cptnodegard	det er jo... 3200. med toll blir det mer enn den koster på cdon o0	15:06
\|tbb\|	where to get the n800 that cheap as you can get it in the us states?	15:06
Blafasel	The buy.com offer seems to beat everything else..	15:07
\|tbb\|	where in europe btw	15:07
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Cptnodegard	i dont even want a n810 xD	15:07
Cptnodegard	not enough memory	15:07
Cptnodegard	have a 16GB adata card on the way from the us, and a 8gb in it	15:08
Cptnodegard	for n800	15:08
Blafasel	Yeah, heard that several times. What exactly are you putting in the card?	15:08
Cptnodegard	putting in the card?	15:08
lcuk_3	<- n810 £280 (through work, VAT free)	15:08
jott	i bet porn :)	15:08
Cptnodegard	ah	15:08
Cptnodegard	lol	15:08
Cptnodegard	tv shows	15:08
Blafasel	On. Typo, i and o being next to each other..	15:08
Cptnodegard	since you dont need to convert them i need the etxra space ^^	15:09
lcuk_3	hmmm i am _3	15:09
Blafasel	lcuk_3: I've seen it on buy.com for ~350$ (!) last week.	15:09
k-way	What does a n800 cost these days"	15:09
k-way	?	15:09
lcuk_3	blah - i was gonna get from there but then thought i would be better direct from nokia - since i get work related discount i am ok	15:09
Blafasel	Cptnodegard: Okay, so not relevant for me. I don't own a TV nor am I interested in movies etc.	15:09
Veggen	I do have an n800 in addition.	15:10
Veggen	don't expect to get rid of it, but time will tell which one will get used :)	15:11
Veggen	(most)	15:11
GeneralAntilles	TV shows, movies, music, audio books, podcasts, ebooks, games, etc.	15:11
johnx	...a debian chroot	15:11
GeneralAntilles	Filling up two SD cards is an easy task.	15:11
lcuk_3	audio books take too long, but at least you can read them whilst driving	15:12
Cptnodegard	nah not music	15:12
* lcuk_3 once tried using isolo whilst driving. never again i kept losing my page		15:12
Cptnodegard	n800 sounds like CRAP with headphones	15:12
johnx	I tried to listen to an audio book once and the guy reading it drove me crazy in like 10 minutes	15:12
GeneralAntilles	Bull, Cptnodegard.	15:12
Cptnodegard	but the internal speakers pwns	15:12
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Cptnodegard	i compared it directly to my mp3 player, until you do the same you dont know how bad it sounds	15:13
GeneralAntilles	audio books are great on long car trips.	15:13
lcuk_3	the 810 headphones are almost silent unless i press the little button on it	15:13
GeneralAntilles	I still say bull	15:13
lcuk_3	is it something on all of them or am i the only one	15:13
johnx	Cptnodegard, mine sounds fine through headphones but I am not what one would describe as an audiophile...	15:13
GeneralAntilles	I've compared it directly on my receiver, on an iPod and on the N800.	15:13
GeneralAntilles	Good set up Shures.	15:13
Cptnodegard	lol ipod	15:13
Cptnodegard	explains it	15:13
Blafasel	Okay, all the media stuff is irrelevant to me, I want it to play with linux development and to access the net everywhere.	15:13
GeneralAntilles	It wasn't mine.	15:14
lcuk_3	lol @ disowning ipod	15:14
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Cptnodegard	i have an a/b switch so i connect both players playing same song simultaneousely to the same headphones and switch to and fro, only way to really compare sound	15:14
johnx	a debian chroot still accounts for most of my used space on a 2GB SD card	15:14
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_3, not disowning	15:15
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GeneralAntilles	just a statement of truth. :)	15:15
GeneralAntilles	Obviously anybody who buys or uses an iPod is an idiot.	15:15
lcuk_3	i know - the missus has a mini and whilst it sure looks good i wouldnt have one myself	15:15
lcuk_3	:O	15:15
* lcuk_3 tells his missus		15:15
GeneralAntilles	At least according to Mr. Cptnodegard.	15:16
lcuk_3	lol	15:16
GeneralAntilles	I just don't have any need for a device like that.	15:16
GeneralAntilles	I can't stand wearing headphones in public places	15:16
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Cptnodegard	my ecperience is that fanboys are people who havent directly compared stuff	15:16
GeneralAntilles	and otherwise I'm either in my car with CDs or at home with my rig.	15:16
lcuk_3	you just use your n800 on your shoulder like a boombox	15:16
Cptnodegard	thats why i hate ipod, because i have :p	15:16
Cptnodegard	anyways i love the internal speakers on the n800 so much i use those instead,a mp3 player isnt much to have on the side.	15:17
lcuk_3	in car ipod connect = your entire library, home speakers = your library, mobile walking headphones = your library. ipod owns for the general user	15:17
Cptnodegard	n800 speakers arent tinny like ex the psp	15:17
GeneralAntilles	Still no iPods that'll fit my library.	15:17
Cptnodegard	160GB?	15:18
lcuk_3	so have you got it all on your n800?	15:18
GeneralAntilles	220GB right now	15:18
lcuk_3	well you could delete the britney stuff :P	15:18
GeneralAntilles	'course not, lcuk_3.	15:18
Cptnodegard	n800 can theoretically take 96	15:18
lcuk_3	lol	15:18
Cptnodegard	2x 32 sdhc and a 32 gb usb stick	15:19
GeneralAntilles	Ha	15:19
Cptnodegard	so only 124 to go :p	15:19
GeneralAntilles	Just use an external HD if you're gonna put as tick on it. . . .	15:19
lcuk_3	cpt - cant you get a battery powered hub and operate multiple usb sticks?	15:19
johnx	better, yet, you can chain hubs	15:19
lcuk_3	sod it - just take your desktop and car battery with you	15:19
Cptnodegard	lcuk_3 - technically you can :D	15:20
Cptnodegard	and BT	15:20
lcuk_3	and a long network cable	15:20
johnx	This is what makes me want a personal server	15:20
Cptnodegard	i have a working USB battery device, also works with the ca100 for charging n800	15:20
GeneralAntilles	I've got mediaserv set up on a server at my parent's house.	15:20
GeneralAntilles	Massive upstream	15:20
GeneralAntilles	Enough to stream full-quality movies.	15:20
johnx	big drive, hostap (aka wifi ap), 3G, maybe bluetooth, and a big, big battery	15:21
lcuk_3	gen - speaking of usb - my keyboard foobared last night and wouldnt operate - i mashed the keyss and 810 rebooted (total crash) and then it worked again	15:21
pupnik_	how much storage space does youtube have?	15:21
GeneralAntilles	A lot?	15:22
lcuk_3	plenty but the bitrate is awful	15:22
johnx	and I keep having problems using youtube when I'm not connected to the internet :P	15:22
lcuk_3	how much storage does piratebay have?	15:22
GeneralAntilles	Evidently they store the videos on the servers in the same format they were uploaded in, so it'll get a lot better once they move to "HD".	15:22
GeneralAntilles	Very little, lcuk_3.	15:22
Veggen	lcuk: about nil.	15:22
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lcuk_3	ok, how much remotely linked storage does piratebay provide access to?	15:23
GeneralAntilles	None, really.	15:23
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johnx	I think there is a middle ground between having a certain amount of "local cache" and a certain amount of stuff internet accesible	15:24
johnx	it's all about latency	15:24
GeneralAntilles	The moderation approach, johnx. Very smooth. :P	15:24
lcuk_3	ffs @ pedants :P how much space would you need if you obtained and processed the torrents used by the piratebay servers	15:24
* lcuk_3 feels like hes talkin to the RIAA		15:25
GeneralAntilles	thepiratebay? Well, since you can't actually get to most of the stuff they have, not much. :P	15:25
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johnx	also I like to have random access or at worst sequential access	15:25
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johnx	bittorrent is good for isos of linux distros	15:26
jott	johnx: not for mounting them though :P	15:26
johnx	heh	15:26
lcuk_3	BT is great for well seeded files. the best seeded files are also the most legit ones	15:26
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GeneralAntilles	lcuk_3, or the latest crappy cam of this weeks big blockbuster.	15:27
johnx	jott, http://btslave.sourceforge.net/ if you're interested in mounting a .torrent	15:27
lcuk_3	GeneralAntilles, nahhhh things like that are always overloaded with leechers who drop things immediately after	15:28
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lcuk_3	its nice to see the difference when downloading (as johnx said) a linux iso or other legit file to some popular cam	15:29
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jott	johnx: heh nice... does this actually work? ;)	15:29
johnx	jott, no idea. :D	15:30
Cptnodegard	had to take a better pic for my own sake http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/n800sm.jpg	15:30
johnx	makes me want to go find a nice small usb keyboard and the right cables to try this	15:30
lcuk_3	johnx - i wonder what the ladies think when you tell them yours is smaller than everyone elses	15:31
GeneralAntilles	Now it's underexposed.	15:31
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johnx	lcuk_3, I'll tell them it's "reverse compensation"	15:31
GeneralAntilles	http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/igobtkb.jpg	15:31
GeneralAntilles	That's smeckxier anyway. :P	15:32
lcuk_3	johnx - simplest cables is a standard female-female dongle. use your nokia supplied cable and the shell command	15:32
johnx	I haven't seen the female-female dongle at a store actually	15:32
Cptnodegard	GeneralAntilles, bt kb model...?	15:32
johnx	and I don't have the Nokia cable because I got a compusa open box deal waaay back in March	15:33
Veggen	actually, any decent gadget-store with cables etc. should have them.	15:33
GeneralAntilles	iGo	15:33
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Cptnodegard	ah	15:33
Cptnodegard	very nice	15:33
Veggen	I had the parts needed to access my dSLR via USB already :)	15:33
Cptnodegard	found some on ebay but expensive shipping	15:33
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johnx	I have a mini-a cable from my zaurus but could Nokia bother to use a mini-a? nooooo...that would be too easy	15:34
lcuk_3	decent phone shopp stocking nokia stuff should have them	15:34
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lcuk_3	nokia cable ca-101	15:34
johnx	but that's just a mini-b to A, right?	15:35
lcuk_3	yer believe so - do you want an automatic host mode cable?	15:36
johnx	I was going for something smallish, hopefully pocketable	15:36
lcuk_3	(and do automatic bodged cables work with firmware upgrade)	15:36
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johnx	maybe one of those mini-b to A that have a built-in reel and a female-to-female	15:37
lcuk_3	yer its a bit of a monster long connection	15:37
johnx	or someone had one that was all one piece I thought	15:37
* lcuk_3 could skip with his		15:37
johnx	or whack people :D	15:37
lcuk_3	INDIANA JONES STYLE :D	15:37
lcuk_3	anyway, back to the grind	15:38
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* czr peeks		15:44
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Veggen	hmm. the internal flash - is it damned slow? tried to select the N810 demo movie, and it seems to take forever to start...	15:48
Veggen	(if not, something's broken?)	15:48
johnx	it's slow...but it shouldn't be slow enough to be noticeable when playing a movie	15:48
johnx	do you have high CPU or write-to-disk going on in the background?	15:49
Veggen	nope, nothing.	15:49
Veggen	it's fresh from box, nothing started, etc.	15:49
johnx	that's unfortunate	15:50
Veggen	doesn't seem to start, video.	15:51
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johnx	'night all	15:54
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Cptnodegard	is there some patch to make canole or media player read album art?	16:05
Cptnodegard	it annoys me as all my music is tagged	16:06
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Veggen	nope, videos doesn't start. is the internal video player broken?	16:10
Cptnodegard	on the n810?	16:10
Cptnodegard	try mplayer	16:11
Cptnodegard	internal one doesnt play shit	16:11
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Veggen	well. Internal one should play the included demo videos? ;)	16:11
czr	it should indeed	16:11
Cptnodegard	true :/	16:11
Cptnodegard	install that process info app aned see if something is stealing power	16:12
Cptnodegard	reboot	16:12
Veggen	mm, ok. haven't rebooted since configuring.	16:12
Cptnodegard	that might be it	16:12
Cptnodegard	does the media player even start?	16:12
Veggen	media player starts, video doesn't.	16:13
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Cptnodegard	ah	16:13
* alterego wonders when the sbox2 SDK will have X server support.		16:13
czr	alterego, meaning?	16:13
czr	and hi :-)	16:13
alterego	czr, being able to run hildon desktop.	16:14
alterego	And hello to you too. :P	16:14
Blafasel	You know the famous line: Linux, where rebooting is for new hardware only.	16:14
Blafasel	Well - your device _is_ new, right? ;)	16:14
czr	hah	16:14
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Cptnodegard	63 bucks shiopped for igo	16:23
Cptnodegard	:/	16:23
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Veggen	hmm. btw, reboot worked.	16:46
Cptnodegard	^^	16:47
Veggen	not sure if logging off/on (aka the off-button) would have worked, I decided to do it hard by removing battery ;)	16:48
timely	how do i install flash9 on 10.3.9? :(	16:50
\|tbb\|	:...( i lost my stylus	16:51
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timely	oh nice, finder crashed	16:51
bmidgley	\|tbb\| the box has two when you buy it, eh?	16:51
czr	Veggen, weird, but good that it fixed it.	16:52
timely	oops, wrong window	16:52
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* czr gives timely a better window		16:54
Veggen	czr: It does show that I come from a Linux world, not thinking of that as first solution ;)	16:54
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czr	Veggen, indeed :-)	16:55
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MagicFab	What security features (encryption of data, or just password protecion of the devices) are there in the n8x0 ? I can't find any reference to that.	17:00
\|tbb\|	bmidgley: i know but if that is lost then? maybe buying a n900 then ;)	17:01
Veggen	there is possibility of a security code? cell phone style.	17:01
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michele_	yes	17:06
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Zetx	I'm a bit confused on bluetooth headsets. I hear that when using mplayer, the sound is kinda choppy, but is this true for VOIP and can I use the headset's mic to talk (for VOIP)?	17:08
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jsmith	Zetx: I don't know anything about mplayer, but I've used my little Jabra BT-150 for VoIP, and it worked just fine	17:12
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\|\|cw	Zetx: I think the choppiness depends on the codec and bitrate	17:13
kulve	I tried using my jabra but I couldn't here anything. It works ok with the media player	17:13
kulve	s,here,hear,	17:13
kulve	"ok" as in, I can hear the choppy playback	17:14
Zetx	Alright. I suppose it's a work in progress, then >_>	17:14
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kulve	jsmith: did you set up something for the VOIP or did it just work?	17:15
Zetx	I've been considering the EEE and the n800, and will probably end up getting the n800	17:15
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jsmith	kulve: It just worked.	17:16
jsmith	kulve: This was on my shiny new n810... your mileage may vary	17:16
kulve	Zetx: can you upgrade the eee somehow? Or add apps there? Or login with ssh as root?	17:16
kulve	jsmith: n810 here too	17:16
kulve	I need to test it again..	17:16
pupnik_	any OS2008 people here got a working synergy yet?	17:17
\|\|cw	kulve: yes, the Eee is fully hackable, there's even an unofficial Ubuntu based distro for it	17:18
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kulve	\|\|cw: that's good to here. I think I saw some official(?) installation and it was pretty simple	17:18
kulve	s,here,hear, again	17:18
Zetx	kulve: personally wouldn't want to upgrade the EEE's internal hardware myself since I have no soldering experience ^^;	17:18
kulve	Zetx: I was talking about the sw :)	17:18
\|\|cw	Zetx: if you get an Eee, go for the 4G, it has a mini-PCIe socket inside that the 2G doesn't have	17:18
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\|\|cw	there's even an 8GB SSD card for it	17:19
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\|\|cw	the 8G uses the mini-PCIe for the storage, with no on-board flash	17:20
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Veggen	mm, I think I'll have to get an Eee too ;) (I'm a gadget-maniac, especially if it runs free OSes)	17:23
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Veggen	but, I think I'll wait for the reputed norwegian launch.	17:24
kulve	I think it's too small for a laptop and too big to be carried around. N810 is better :)	17:24
kulve	depends highly on the needs, ofc	17:24
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Veggen	well. It's small enough that it's not significantly extra space/weight in a backpack you already drag around?	17:25
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Veggen	of course, tablets are better that way. But it'll depend on the features you need.	17:26
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Zetx	some of my cons for the EEE was that the keyboard may be too small for me, so I could get another keyboard, but that'd defeat the whole small/portable thing... and the n800 would be smaller, even if I needed a BT keyboard	17:27
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doc\|home	I'd buy a 10inch EEE	17:30
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nuragico	hi, is there sqlite3 for maemo 2008	17:34
michele_	anybody tried to build MokoFingerScroll on Maemo?	17:35
nuragico	where can i found the sqlite3 repository	17:35
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michele_	that would be nice and would hopefully put an end to thousands of ad-hoc implementations...	17:36
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\|\|cw	Zetx: I see the Eee fitting a different market segment that then nokias. if the nokias were x86 and had supported USB host controlers and more RAM, then maybe....	17:38
Veggen	I can lug the n800 to a pub in my pocket. I would probably not do that with an Eee, but I can see it living in my backpack.	17:39
melmoth	nuragico: there is sqlite3 for maemo 2008.	17:39
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melmoth	nuragico: i do not know where the repo is, but you can apt-get source it.	17:40
Dist	Even in repository.maemo.org..	17:40
Dist	(not only in "repostory" or stage)	17:40
pskr	need help! in usb networking. How to make sure my kernel has usbnet support?	17:41
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ccooke	Veggen: personally, I've got a 17" laptop I use for "heavy" work (and a few games). Anything smaller has to compete - either it needs to be small enough (the n810) to be used anywhere or comfortable enough (not the Eee) to replace the 17" monster.	17:41
ccooke	there's no way I'd want to carry three computers around all the time :-)	17:41
Veggen	ccooke: I'm a bicycle man. Though laziness and winter has made me put away the bike for a while now.	17:42
Veggen	ccooke: weight on what I drag to work is an issue on bicycle :) I guess I could drag an Eee back and forth every day.	17:42
ccooke	Veggen: ah ha.	17:43
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Veggen	sigh - continuity is needed to withstand winter for bicycling, this year I broke in late september or so. Last year, not even well sub-zero, snow and ice could stop me.	17:44
glass	lacking options is what you need	17:44
glass	it's easy to use the bike if it's the only choice	17:44
Veggen	glass: true.	17:45
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pskr	Help! anybody? How to make sure my kernel has usbnet support?	17:45
michele_	glass: wish I could	17:46
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michele_	glass: I have a 30 minutes commute by car...	17:46
pskr	I am trying to setup my N800 so I can debug it.	17:46
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nuragico	i add repository.maemo.org but then i don't found sqlite3	17:48
zoran	add more repos	17:49
pskr	I did lsmod \| grep usbnet and did not get any results. How do I enable usbnet support?	17:49
melmoth	comes frome here:	17:50
melmoth	deb http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free non-free	17:50
melmoth	deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free	17:50
zoran	lsmod is for loaded kernel modules	17:50
zoran	maybe your option is compiled into the kernel itself	17:50
michele_	uh... #openmoko has more users than #maemo... how unexpected	17:50
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melmoth	library package name is libsqlite3-0	17:51
zoran	pskr, what exactly do you want to do?	17:51
melmoth	i do not have the "sqlite" binary tool on scratchboxn but it works with the debian based sqlite tool as long as it is v3, so, who cares ?	17:51
Lynoure	michele_: not really: I think everyone who uses openmoko know about openmoko, but most N800 users just use it, unaware of what maemo is	17:51
pskr	zoran: I want to debug applications on N800	17:51
pskr	zoran:using gdb from linux PC.	17:52
zoran	huh, debugger could be tricky and memory consuming	17:52
zoran	ah, on pc	17:52
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pskr	zoran: To do that, I need to setup usb networking. isn't it?	17:53
michele_	Lynoure: good point	17:53
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zoran	pskr, or wifi	17:54
sishkebab	hi folks, is there any known reason why i cannot mount my external card in linux?	17:54
zoran	pskr, you have dump file?	17:54
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Zic	hi o/	17:55
alterego	Hmm, maemo repo is down :/	17:55
pskr	zoran: Aah..I don't know. How to check it? My app crashed with segmentation fault.	17:56
zoran	it is arm, your debugger probably i386	17:57
zoran	no match, I think	17:57
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jott	is there actually a gconf setting (or something else) to disable the "completion bar" on the n810 (that pops up when you start typing)	17:57
pskr	In scratchbox, I can select the ARM target and debug, I suppose.	17:57
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zoran	why not	17:58
zoran	I don't have scratchbox	17:58
zoran	you could always try	17:58
zoran	no harm	17:58
pskr	zoran: do you know where in the device the core dump files are dumped?	17:58
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zoran	pskr, I thonk in working directory	17:59
zoran	copy it to pc first, I think	17:59
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jott	ah got it disabled :)	18:02
Spakman	anyone know where I can get some free icons for use in my Maemo app? I'd like a trash can and a refresh icon and would like to use "standard-ish" ones if possible.	18:03
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pskr	zoran: I could not find the dump. Any ideas?	18:04
zoran	core.something	18:04
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dpb_	What's a good price to ask for a used Nokia 770?	18:06
doc\|home	$5	18:06
doc\|home	want to sell?	18:06
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Nermal	um.. $80 - $100 ?	18:07
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Nermal	or is that too much	18:07
Nermal	I don't do $ well	18:07
dragorn	You can get them new for around $120-$130, so scale accordingly	18:07
nelson	michele_: #openmoko has more promise than #maemo, and less meat.	18:08
pskr	zoran: I can't find it. Anyway thanks for the idea. So, you think I need to recompile the kernel to enable usbnet. Any pointers on how to do that?	18:08
zoran	pskr, probably not	18:08
zoran	people use host usb	18:09
zoran	what find for "core*" shoes?	18:09
zoran	*shows	18:10
nelson	I hate to look a gift n810 discount in the mouth, but this one is getting a little long in the tooth.	18:10
pskr	nothing. I searched in my home dir and /media (thinking it might dump in mmc1/2). Probably I need to enable something to generate core dump	18:11
zoran	maybe no seg fault	18:11
michele_	nelson: that's why I didn't expect that. ITs are actual, released "consumer" devices. OM phones aren't anywhere near that yet	18:11
zoran	or you set coredumpsize to 0	18:11
dhd	ulimit -c unlimited?	18:12
Zetx	hmm, but consumers don't really use irc ;)	18:12
michele_	yes, yes, but consumer means more exposure, which means more users, which means (usually) more people willing to hack stuff	18:13
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Zetx	ah, you have a point ^^	18:13
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michele_	this is one of the reasons I bough the 810: because I knew there'd be people hacking on it	18:13
nelson	michele_: I think people are excited about being able to run their own code on their phone.	18:13
* jsmith is certainly excited		18:13
pskr	zoran: When I run my application from command line, it clearly says "Segmentation fault". How to change coredumpsize?	18:13
mardi_	ls	18:14
jsmith	pskr: Got to the commandline, and type "ulimit -c unlimited", then run your program	18:14
nelson	michele_: unfortunately, OpenEmbedded is hard to turn into a stable system.	18:14
* Zetx isn't aware of any openmoko phones, but has certainly not looked. at all.		18:14
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zoran	pskr, as I know core dump is set on on linux and bsd	18:15
nelson	The PokyLinux.org folks are proving that OE can be tamed, but it's not a trivial task.	18:15
zoran	maybe the size of dump is too high and the system stops the writting	18:15
zoran	dunno	18:15
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zoran	did you include any line with warning messages	18:16
michele_	nelson: poky is by o-hand right? so I think they've been hired to do that	18:16
florian	nelson: How does that relate to the status of the OM device?	18:16
zoran	or set exit to something aside 0	18:16
pskr	jsmith:thanks. That did not work either. No core dumps are generated. I searched in my home dir, /media	18:16
pskr	zoran: no.	18:17
nelson	florian: I've been importing OM .bb files into PokyLinux, and .... they've proven to be buggy.	18:17
zoran	hm, c?	18:17
nelson	florian: plus you've got the chaos of openmoko binary releases.	18:17
florian	nelson: well.. but that's not the major problem of OM. OE would be a bad excuse.	18:18
nelson	florian: oh, no, OE is the most visible problem of OM. It doesn't have to be that way, but it is.	18:19
florian	nelson: OE was used for a stable consumer device the first time in 2004.	18:19
florian	nelson: that's a bad excuse, just install an image and look at the sources.	18:19
nelson	florian: it's possible to use OE to produce the same build twice in a row, but the most visible OE project doesn't do that.	18:19
pskr	zoran: I did not get ur question. sorry	18:20
florian	nelson: that's true... but this does not make it the major problem - sorry.	18:20
nelson	(which is michele_ 's point -- that OM has a lot of interest -- more than maemo)	18:20
zoran	pskr, C language?	18:20
nelson	florian: from the point of someone trying to build software to run on OM, OE is its major flaw.	18:21
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florian	nelson: hum well, grab the toolchain and build your software.	18:22
nelson	florian: I've done that. OM doesn't build twice the same way .... and often it doesn't build at all.	18:23
czr	better yet, set terminal to raw mode and cat > new-killer-app !	18:23
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nelson	czr: hmph. I actually have keyed code into a machine via the front panel.	18:24
czr	nelson, so? :-)	18:24
czr	I used to write 8085 with hex-keypad	18:24
czr	it was actually fun. CD to rule them all!	18:25
czr	hmm. or was it C3.. bleh.	18:25
nelson	czr: binary toggle switches >> hex-keypad	18:25
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pskr	zoran: Yes. C++ & C	18:25
czr	nelson, ok ok, you win :-)	18:26
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nelson	C3 is ret	18:26
czr	yeah. that's what I meant at least. been ages since I've done any 85 though	18:26
LoCusF	how can I perform a version lock in n8x0?	18:26
zoran	pskr ,what if you compile it on i386; could you debug it first on pc?	18:26
LoCusF	ie. if I wanna keep a specific version of a package	18:26
nelson	czr: ahhhhh, those were the old days, when programmers had hair.	18:27
nelson	czr: actually, the first computers were women.	18:27
czr	heh	18:27
nelson	czr: I have a dictionary which defines "computer" as "a person who computes".	18:27
nelson	:-)	18:27
czr	applying endless hotfixes and it still wouldn't work properly	18:27
czr	ah, those computers :-)	18:28
czr	yeah.. most of them were women	18:28
czr	the finnish computer is 'tietokone' where tieto = knowledge, kone = machine.	18:28
czr	I think it's pretty ironic.	18:28
czr	tieto also might be information, but that's besides the point.	18:28
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michele_	I read people on ITT enabling "virtual memory" ie. swap is going to improve performance, but wouldn't that kill the flash card?	18:33
zoran	michelle_, it could not last forever anyway	18:33
\|tbb\|	how can i read data from a file which is allready in use, is that possible?	18:33
michele_	zoran: yes, but it'd get much more writes that way	18:34
zoran	michelle_, swap partition is even better	18:34
czr	\|tbb\|, define 'in use'	18:34
nelson	michele_: it depends on how often you write, and exactly what you write.	18:34
zoran	michelle_, it is what you want	18:34
\|tbb\|	like myappliction -logdata >> mylogfile.log	18:34
czr	\|tbb\|, sure you can read it	18:34
michele_	nelson: I don't get to decide what gets written on the swap area	18:34
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nelson	michele_: if you swap a long-running process off to memory, and it doesn't change its "in-memory" data much or at all, then flash swapping can work fine.	18:35
czr	\|tbb\|, tail -f mylogfile.log for example	18:35
nelson	michele_: it seriously depends on how the application uses memory.	18:35
zoran	smaller memory footprint, less writting	18:35
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pskr	zoran:it runs fine on pc.thats why i want to debug on n800	18:35
zoran	less changes, less writting	18:35
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michele_	nelson: yes, I can see this. but it's not predictable	18:36
\|tbb\|	czr, cat mylogfile wont work, if the application writes data on the fly?	18:36
czr	\|tbb\|, it works as well	18:36
michele_	so, do all of you have swap on?	18:36
zoran	pskr, maybe some arm specifics?	18:36
pskr	i guess so	18:36
nelson	michele_: I'm not swapping, no.	18:36
zoran	command line, or graphical?	18:37
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\|tbb\|	btw, could it be a problem if i set a & after the command?	18:37
zoran	goes in the background	18:37
czr	\|tbb\|, no? add it after the redirection: >> foobar &	18:37
\|tbb\|	than i got a problem which i dont know	18:37
czr	if you close the terminal where you start the program though, it will be killed	18:37
alterego	Or networking isn't working in my scratchbox environment ;)	18:38
* mgedmin has swap		18:38
mgedmin	if the card dies, I figure I can get another one	18:38
zoran	ro buy new device	18:39
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mgedmin	on the plus side, opening two browser windows doesn't kill the browser	18:39
\|tbb\|	how can i run the application after closing terminal?	18:39
mgedmin	yeah, every new nokia device uses a different card standard :/	18:39
czr	\|tbb\|, make it daemonize	18:39
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czr	\|tbb\|, man daemon	18:40
zoran	mgedmin, it is the very core of real fun	18:40
czr	\|tbb\|, then you don't need to start it with &, but you can't really use >> either.	18:40
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zoran	to be suprised all the time	18:40
czr	\|tbb\|, so your program needs to write the logfile directly. not via stdout	18:40
czr	or rather, it can use STDOUT, but the stream must be connected to a file, not the terminal	18:40
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zoran	folks, some1 uses ssmtp or msmtp on any device, including pc?	18:41
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* zoran gone to feed dragons		18:44
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alterego	Anyone know where that link is on setting up networking properly in scratchbox?	18:59
Jaffa	Should just need /etc/resolv.conf futzing within sb	19:03
nuragico	melmoth: thanks, bye bye	19:03
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alterego	Jaffa, yeah. But what do I set it to :/	19:07
alterego	My setup isn't exactly standard ..	19:07
czr	alterego, use the same DNS server as your main host	19:08
czr	or run dnsmasq on the real host, and use 127.0.0.1	19:08
czr	that's what I do	19:08
czr	that way sb works wherever I am (dhcp)	19:08
alterego	I'm using dnsmasq ..	19:08
czr	so use 127.0.0.1 then	19:08
alterego	127.0.0.1 didn't work :/	19:08
czr	well, check /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf as well as the per-target ones	19:09
alterego	Aha!	19:09
czr	yeah, it's "interesting"	19:10
czr	sb tools use the resolv.conf under sbox, the per target tools use the target ones.	19:10
czr	logical, yes? :-)	19:10
alterego	Hmm, wget doesn't pick up google.	19:10
czr	did you fix both?	19:11
czr	if so, also check nsswitch.conf in all those locations	19:11
czr	hosts: files dns (no other entries allowed in any of those)	19:11
alterego	Fixed.	19:13
alterego	Needed to be my router.	19:13
czr	hmm. weird.	19:14
alterego	Well, it's not exactly a generic setup.	19:15
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* czr shrugs		19:16
alterego	My SDK is installed in a hardware virtualized environment using the KVM modules. It's connected to the hardware host node via an ethernet bridge to a dummy network adapter and the host NAT's connections through an ethernet to wireless bridge. Which then talks to by Wireless router, which is connected to a ADSL router.	19:17
alterego	But it all works now :)	19:17
michele_	man that's crazy :)	19:17
alterego	So I'm happy.	19:17
czr	ah. the NAT doesn't nat to your localhost?	19:17
czr	anyhow, interesting setup.	19:18
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alterego	I tried getting the virtual environments to appear on the real ethernet network. But bridging eth0 failed because of my ethernet to wireless bridge.	19:18
melmoth	alterego: same here (except xen)..All works, except....ftp via gnome-vfs :)	19:18
alterego	Though, I think I know what went wrong there. The MAC address of the virtualized host isn't in the allowed MAC addresses of my wireless router ;)	19:19
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alterego	So I'll probably try and get that working at some point.	19:19
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alterego	melmoth, I chose KVM because I didn't have to play around with the kernel.	19:25
alterego	Just a simple `modprobe kvm_intel` and I'm away ^_^	19:25
alterego	Though I hear Xen is a little bit faster.	19:27
_berto_	I don't know Xen, but kvm is very fast	19:28
melmoth	i never try kvm.	19:28
czr	I just used vmware because I'm lazy	19:28
melmoth	i juste used xen because i m lazy :)	19:28
_berto_	I did some tests some months ago -> http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2007/06/27/comparing-virtualization-software-performance-qemu-vs-uml-vs-kvm/	19:28
_berto_	now kvm supports smp as well, but I haven't tested it much	19:28
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alterego	_berto_, so I should be able to use my dual core across into the hvm's too?	19:30
alterego	That's awesome.	19:30
_berto_	yes, with recent versions	19:30
_berto_	:)	19:30
alterego	Nice.	19:30
_berto_	at least it doesn't crash anymore	19:30
alterego	I'll definitely look into that.	19:30
_berto_	but I haven't tested its speed	19:30
alterego	Sure.	19:30
alterego	Would be great for compilations me thinks ;)	19:30
_berto_	I guess that it just works	19:30
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_berto_	indeed	19:31
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czr	_berto_, interesting page	19:31
alterego	I love this KVM stuff though, I've been deploying KVM onto a few blade servers for a client.	19:31
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* czr really should look into it		19:32
czr	is there a good arch doc on kvm anywhere?	19:32
_berto_	czr: it's not a great test, I just compiled the kernel, but it gives an idea of its performance	19:32
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czr	_berto_, yeah, I noticed. none-the-less	19:32
alterego	Is KQEMU similar to KVM?	19:33
alterego	Or is it something different?	19:33
_berto_	it's slower	19:33
_berto_	you need support from your cpu to use KVM	19:33
_berto_	but not for kqemu	19:33
alterego	Ah, cool.	19:33
alterego	That's really impressive.	19:33
_berto_	if you have a core 2 you probably can use KVM	19:33
czr	how are block/network things exported to a kvm vm?	19:33
czr	I mean, what's the technology	19:33
alterego	_berto_, I know all about the hyperviser requirement ;)	19:34
_berto_	just like qemu	19:34
alterego	Yeah, KVM is essentially identical to using qemu, it's just it's a lot quicker.	19:34
czr	ah. so the hw is emulated on vm-side?	19:34
alterego	So, networking and devices are all handled in the same way as qemu guests normally do it.	19:34
czr	which drivers do you use on vm side?	19:34
alterego	No,	19:34
alterego	Oh wait, yes. ;)	19:35
czr	yeah.	19:35
czr	so I guess xen would be quicker for I/O stuff	19:35
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alterego	Probably, I'm not familiar with Xen at all. I may play with it at some point. But I'm really happy with how kvm/qemu does things for now.	19:37
_berto_	if you don't want emulation at all	19:37
_berto_	you could use something like linux-vserver	19:37
czr	well, I'd like the I/O model of Xen coupled with VT	19:37
_berto_	it runs the same kernel	19:37
czr	sure. but that's not the issue	19:37
alterego	Then you can't use other OS' ..	19:37
czr	I have a non-linux custom OS as the VM	19:37
czr	or rather, "OS"	19:37
_berto_	:)	19:37
czr	the xen i/o model on the VM side is very nice. very nice indeed.	19:38
alterego	Which makes using kvm/xen pointless :P	19:38
czr	no need for old hw emulation etc.	19:38
alterego	I'll have to look at it.	19:38
alterego	I was tempted to work for Xen Source ..	19:38
czr	you were?	19:38
czr	oh, why not? :-)	19:38
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alterego	I decided I liked being a contractor too much ;)	19:39
czr	heh, I know that feeling.. :-)	19:39
czr	replied to one recruitment email just today..	19:39
alterego	The diversity of work keeps me a lot happier.	19:39
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alterego	czr, do you still have that maemo sdk kernel module howto handy?	19:41
czr	alterego, sure, although it's for bora	19:42
czr	I haven't updated it for chinook	19:42
alterego	Oh,	19:42
alterego	Should be pretty similar though I'd imagine.	19:42
* czr nods		19:42
alterego	May I? :)	19:42
czr	I could probably update it	19:42
czr	or you can use it and report back :-)	19:42
czr	and I'll update it	19:42
alterego	Well, I'll let you know if I crash and burn ;)	19:42
czr	sure.. it's public	19:42
alterego	Got a link?	19:42
czr	google for 'koltsoff N800 kernel module'	19:42
czr	should find it	19:42
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czr	http://koltsoff.com/pub/hello-n800/	19:43
alterego	thanks	19:43
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alterego	Yeah, got it :P	19:43
alterego	I'm gonna do an experiment building the driver for a USB wireless dongle.	19:43
czr	download the driver as well, it should work on the n810 kernel	19:44
czr	although, if the driver doesn't build, I'd be interested in hearing that as well.	19:44
czr	it's just a stupid hello world module anyway	19:44
truent	alterego, with host mode? ;)	19:44
alterego	host mode?	19:45
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alterego	I want promisc :P	19:45
alterego	Though, host mode would be useful for my laptop.	19:46
truent	i think the n800 with stock drivers doesnt provide power for usb devices	19:46
alterego	Having both connected to the internet through the same phone.	19:46
alterego	It does.	19:46
alterego	OS2008 allows for USB OTF.	19:46
alterego	~OTG host mode.	19:46
truent	yeah	19:46
truent	but people still have to hack in a power supply no?	19:47
alterego	But the power certainly wont be enough. I'll have to use my powered hub.	19:47
truent	k	19:47
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truent	some guy already did that.. dont think he wrote a driver, but he got a usb dongle to work..	19:47
alterego	Not for everything, some USB keyboards work without extra power, as do all of the card readers I've tested.	19:47
alterego	And USB memory sticks.	19:48
alterego	Even my digital camera :)	19:48
truent	for WEP cracking.. usb wifi to inject packets, the built in wifi to record	19:48
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alterego	Well, I'm not doing anything that invasive.	19:48
alterego	This is for network debugging.	19:48
truent	heh	19:49
truent	screw debugging, promiscuous mode is good period.	19:49
truent	;p	19:49
truent	if somethings avail i want inet heh	19:49
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alterego	Well, if it's legal in your country go for it :P	19:51
truent	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=111781&postcount=8	19:52
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truent	theres his instructions, may help for reference	19:52
alterego	Thanks :)	19:53
czr	hmm. I may need to buy a new computer for virtualization stuff.. argh.	19:53
alterego	Yes, you need "VT extensions".	19:53
czr	well, I already have on with VT	19:53
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czr	VT-x to be precise	19:53
alterego	The newest P4's have it as well as a lot of C2D chips.	19:53
czr	but I'd rather not touch it too much	19:54
alterego	All AMD X2's and above have it.	19:54
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czr	oh, I know.	19:54
czr	that's not the issue. I'm just too lazy to risk anything going fubar on the existing VT machine	19:54
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alterego	Ah	19:55
alterego	What OS are you running?	19:55
czr	linux as host, linuxen, custom, windowsen as guests	19:56
alterego	Yeah, I meant what Linux as host :P	19:56
czr	ubuntu atm.	19:56
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alterego	Ubuntu + KVM is super easy. Just `sudo apt-get install kvm` then `sudo modprobe kvm_intel` or kvm_amd.	19:56
alterego	And you're off.	19:56
czr	since which release?	19:57
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alterego	Well, I'm using 7.10	19:57
czr	but I'm thinking of xen as well	19:57
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czr	bleh, I could do it really. just too lazy :-)	19:57
alterego	Yes, Xen requires a kernel build.	19:57
* czr puts it on the todo list		19:57
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alterego	:)	19:57
czr	yes I know, I've used it before	19:57
alterego	Lazy bugger.	19:57
* czr hides in shame		19:57
alterego	Well, firstly. There's no 'rx-34.kernel-headers' package.	19:58
czr	how suprising.	19:58
alterego	It appears that 'linux-kernel-headers' are installed.	19:58
czr	is there anything with headers?	19:58
czr	hmm. maybe I should startup the VM as well, give me a sec	19:58
_berto_	qemu/kvm is the easiest one to set up	19:58
_berto_	even the network is trivial	19:58
_berto_	:)	19:58
alterego	_berto_, indeed. :) I'm well chuffed.	19:58
czr	vmware is way easier imho :-)	19:58
alterego	Heh	19:58
alterego	Only because it's already running :P	19:59
alterego	kvm is easier than VMWare IMO :P	19:59
_berto_	last time I checked you needed a kernel module to have network in vmware	19:59
czr	er? nah, it has a simple GUI	19:59
_berto_	but that was many years ago	19:59
_berto_	:)	19:59
czr	_berto_, no you don't	19:59
alterego	kvm -m 512 hd_image.img	19:59
alterego	That's a simple GUI :P	19:59
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_berto_	indeed	19:59
czr	amd pcnet32 or e1000 are emulated. you _can_ build a vmnet driver if you wish (bypasses the emulation)	19:59
alterego	We need that for KVM ..	20:00
czr	well, I meant for building machines. I don't really use the GUI for anything else	20:00
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alterego	That would be cool.	20:00
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alterego	To build a machine.	20:00
alterego	qemu-img create -f qcow2 hd_image.img 40G	20:00
_berto_	I mean, to have network between the host and the virtual machine	20:00
_berto_	you used to need a special interface	20:00
_berto_	vmnet0	20:01
_berto_	iirc	20:01
czr	yar.. where is my chinook installation..	20:01
alterego	Hmm ..	20:02
alterego	I suck at this.	20:02
alterego	Where should I point KLIB and LLIB_BUILD?	20:02
czr	haha. it's an old version of the VM. one before installing the SDK and SBOX	20:02
czr	alterego, what are you building?	20:02
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alterego	compat-wireless	20:03
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czr	did you try building the helloworld one first?	20:03
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alterego	Nope, trying now.	20:05
czr	yeah, I'll extract the proper VM, a sec	20:05
czr	the wireless driver most probably has some broken Makefile	20:06
alterego	No kernel source :/	20:06
czr	so it needs more env vars or smt	20:06
czr	wonderful	20:06
czr	I'll have a smoke and boot the VM up meanwhile, brb	20:06
alterego	Heh	20:06
* alterego wheeps.		20:07
Jaffa	Steve Jobs just announced MacBook Air	20:09
alterego	What's that?	20:09
Jaffa	Hasn't said yet	20:10
* Jaffa is watching http://www.macrumorslive.com/		20:10
Jaffa	"World's thinnest notebook" - so presumably quite wide	20:10
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alterego	Hah	20:10
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dhd	ugh, macbook air, now I have to figure out where to get $1500 :)	20:12
alterego	Why? Mac's are just for fashion victims ..	20:12
czr	alterego, you remember what the hw name is for n810?	20:12
alterego	They just look so boring	20:12
alterego	czr, 44	20:13
alterego	RX44	20:13
czr	bleh. I only find rx-34-kernel	20:13
dhd	ahh yeah I just remembered how much Mac OS X irritated me	20:13
alterego	It's like iPod touches, and iPhones. They're not practical and they look boring.	20:13
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alterego	No imagination, just completely black plastic ..	20:13
alterego	With an apple logo O_O	20:13
alterego	czr, well. Presumably I can use that ;)	20:14
alterego	As they should be compatible.	20:14
dhd	the iPhone's GUI is something quite amazing I think	20:14
* czr nods		20:14
alterego	But checking out the source for that kernel image doesn't give me a usable build.	20:15
czr	probably should charge my n810	20:15
czr	where did you find the source?	20:15
czr	apt-get source?	20:15
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alterego	dhd, it's just flashy pictures. Nothing clever about it at all.	20:15
alterego	The input method is a POS.	20:15
alterego	czr, yeah,	20:15
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dhd	alterego: there's nothing new about it but it's the first commercial device to implement a lot of things that have been published in HCI conferences over the last 10 years	20:17
alterego	unmet build dependency kernel-source-rx-34	20:17
dhd	granted, I still think that the N800 is more useful :)	20:17
alterego	And prettier.	20:17
dhd	not least because it is open	20:17
alterego	The N810 is the most attractive piece of electronics I've seen :)	20:17
* dhd nods		20:18
alterego	czr, I'm trying this: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/kernel_guide_for_maemo.html	20:19
czr	hmm. rx-34-kernel source package has a README that tells that it should contain headers. but it doesn't	20:19
czr	let me see	20:19
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czr	heh. except that kernel-source-rx-34 doesn't exist	20:20
czr	unless it's in the non-free repo	20:20
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czr	alterego, the howto tells to use kernel-source-rx-34 source package, but it doesn't exist..	20:21
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alterego	czr, crap :/	20:22
* alterego wheeps.		20:22
czr	indeed. bugzilla time.	20:22
czr	hmm. I remember seeing about this in the mailing lists though	20:22
alterego	I don't :/	20:23
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czr	interesting: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/source/k/kernel-source-rx-34/	20:25
czr	why doesn't apt-cache see it I wonder	20:25
alterego	It's probably not in the Packages.gz file ..	20:26
czr	well, it breaks the howto as well..	20:26
alterego	Oh wait .. It's a source package isn't it.	20:27
alterego	It's not a deb at all.	20:27
czr	indeed	20:27
czr	ah. apt-cache wouldn't see it then, right?	20:27
alterego	Exactly.	20:27
alterego	apt-get source kernel-source-rx-34 works fine ^_^	20:27
czr	indeed	20:28
* czr hits himself on the head		20:28
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alterego	:)	20:28
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alterego	Well, we both screwed that up :D	20:28
czr	they still don't have a separate package with only the headers	20:28
czr	which is sad.	20:28
alterego	Yeah	20:28
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alterego	Looks like I might be able to do this after all then :)	20:29
alterego	Hopefully ..	20:29
czr	still downloading. /me sighs	20:29
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alterego	Yeah, I'm getting 44k/s >:(	20:29
LinuxCode	hi all	20:29
alterego	Gonna take 20 minutes.	20:29
alterego	Lucky it's dinner time I suppose.	20:29
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LinuxCode	so its not just me having slow speeds ?	20:30
czr	alterego, I'm getting 216k	20:30
czr	which is max for me	20:30
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alterego	My ISP screws my connection in the evening.	20:30
czr	your ISP is lonely	20:30
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alterego	Otherwise I should be getting ~250 - 260K/s	20:30
czr	they should get out more often	20:30
LinuxCode	I just had a N810	20:30
alterego	:D	20:30
lcuk_3	linux - had? what did you do with it?	20:30
* lcuk_3 still has his		20:30
* czr has a N00		20:31
alterego	Yeah, mines still down my pants ..	20:31
LinuxCode	not sure if its my N810/wlan or something but cant grab anything from maemo repo	20:31
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lcuk_3	are you on it now or are you using your normal pc to connect to here	20:31
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LinuxCode	normal pc to connect to freenode	20:31
LinuxCode	cant install pidgin or anything else for that matter	20:32
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alterego	czr, how do you fancy compiling these wifi modules for me?	20:32
LinuxCode	can surf though	20:32
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alterego	You could do it in the time it takes me to download the kernel source/eat dinner ;)	20:32
czr	alterego, well, I'll test my hello world. anything beyond that is extra	20:32
alterego	;)	20:32
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czr	argh. they don't have a .config file	20:34
czr	ah. they do, but it's hidden away	20:35
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alterego	Yes, read the how to :P	20:35
czr	well. I don't want to build the whole kernel	20:35
czr	I want to try the 'prepare' target which should be enough	20:35
czr	for that I need the .config	20:36
alterego	make nokia_2420_defconfig should create the .config	20:36
czr	(i.e., just let me do it my way, ok? :-)	20:36
czr	yeah, but it does other things as well	20:36
czr	hmm. interesting. prepare actually works.	20:36
czr	didn't in bora.	20:36
alterego	:)	20:37
alterego	Nice	20:37
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czr	doesn't help though	20:40
czr	the prepare thing doesn't create modpost.	20:40
alterego	Hah	20:40
czr	same problem as in bora.	20:40
czr	bleh.	20:40
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czr	yup.	20:41
czr	full build required.. bleh^3	20:41
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hahlo	does 'mtd -r write os200x.bin linux' work in n800?	20:42
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alterego	hahlo, I don't think anyone has tried mtdutils.	20:42
alterego	I don't see why it wont work.	20:42
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alterego	So it should work. Provided you're dual booting off of an SD card?	20:43
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LinuxCode	quite a few Brits here ;-D	20:43
hahlo	alterego: ok, yes.	20:43
alterego	Who are you calling British!	20:43
czr	maybe he meant to say Grits	20:43
czr	or she.	20:43
alterego	I'm going through like .. 20 proxies man.	20:44
alterego	Oh wait .. They're all in England ..	20:44
* L0cutus need rdiff-backup on os2008 :)		20:44
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LinuxCode	guess I will try an apt-get..the gui thing doesnt give much info back	20:45
LinuxCode	if something aint right	20:45
LinuxCode	kinda sucks they dont give ya a root pass	20:45
LinuxCode	;-\|	20:45
czr	they do	20:45
alterego	There is no root pass on 2008	20:45
czr	but you need to enable r&d	20:45
LinuxCode	czr, where ?	20:45
LinuxCode	how do I do that ?	20:45
czr	login as root :-)	20:45
czr	via ssh is the simplest (imho) way	20:46
alterego	The easiest way is to install open ssh server ..	20:46
LinuxCode	if I could install ssh lol	20:46
Veggen_	alterego: isn't there?	20:46
alterego	That prompts for you to set the root password.	20:46
LinuxCode	maemo is dead for me	20:46
Veggen_	alterego: (a root password)	20:46
LinuxCode	I did set the root pass	20:46
Veggen_	that means I don't need to change it, either. After enabling root :)	20:46
alterego	Veggen, no, root and user passwords aren't defined in 2008	20:46
LinuxCode	but still	20:46
Veggen_	alterego: well. I set a user-password.	20:46
Veggen_	doesn't mess up anything.	20:47
alterego	I set both passwords ..	20:47
Veggen_	I don't need the root password.	20:47
alterego	So I can actually log into it :P	20:47
LinuxCode	alterego, got a N810 ?	20:47
Veggen_	sudo is good enough.	20:47
alterego	LinuxCode, indeed.	20:47
LinuxCode	k	20:47
alterego	Sometimes I _need_ root ..	20:47
LinuxCode	well i set it now	20:47
LinuxCode	using a hack	20:47
LinuxCode	also annoying ping is chmoded	20:47
LinuxCode	how stupid	20:47
Veggen_	alterego: add a line to sudoers.	20:47
LinuxCode	how will people debug their network	20:47
LinuxCode	lol	20:47
alterego	Veggen, why? If it's just a one off thing?	20:48
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Veggen_	LinuxCode: the reason for that is that ping is part of busybox, not?	20:48
LinuxCode	dont know...	20:48
LinuxCode	you tell me..	20:48
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czr	alterego, hello.ko built. will test on device next	20:48
alterego	I could allow user to sudo to ALL, but then that would be a bit of s security hole. As anyone using the device within 10 minutes or whatever would have root access ..	20:48
LinuxCode	this is my first experience with the N810...and busybox etc..	20:48
alterego	czr, fantastic :)	20:48
Veggen_	ping need to be suid root to use as a user. and you can't suid root a symbolic link :)	20:49
czr	I'll add a section on N810/OS2008 to the doc after this	20:49
czr	it's not all that different, so I'll just point out the largest differences	20:49
alterego	Veggen, LinuxCode easy fix is cp busybox ping, then chmod +s ping :)	20:49
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alterego	Finally finished downloading the kernel sources :)	20:51
LinuxCode	alterego, hehe	20:51
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czr	success.	20:54
czr	ok, should probably make some tea, smoke and then update the document..	20:54
alterego	Nice	20:54
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Veggen_	nuts. Did I miss that? why did they change the cable for n810?	20:55
Veggen_	(the USB cable)	20:55
alterego	Veggen, it's smaller.	20:55
czr	it's sexier	20:55
Veggen_	hmmf. hope I brought it from work...	20:55
czr	and otherwise you could have used the normal cable, but it's so sexy that now you can use a separate cable for your n810	20:56
Veggen_	(I got it at work, the n810)	20:56
lcuk_3	damn missus!	20:56
lcuk_3	shes lost my flimpsy but practical cover for my 810	20:56
lcuk_3	she only had the bloody thing for a day	20:56
alterego	Hahah	20:57
alterego	I don't use mine.	20:57
czr	only one day and it's already bloody.. women..	20:57
lcuk_3	i do cos i cant put it in my pocket without it	20:57
alterego	Well, not for it's intended purpose ..	20:57
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lcuk_3	shes promised to make me a replacement	20:58
lcuk_3	(since nokia havent got any on their site ...)	20:58
lcuk_3	now shes threatening to make it furr lined, please someone tell me: how the hell can i prevent this from happening	20:59
lcuk_3	(but still get a case)	20:59
czr	lcuk_3, give her flowers tomorrow	20:59
czr	and say that they're for NOT using fur :-)	20:59
lcuk_3	me? flowers? for once it aint me thats done something wrong	21:00
czr	see, that's the beauty of it. she'll end up so confused, shell forget about the fur.	21:00
lcuk_3	not likely, shes probably choosing contrasting fabrics as we speak	21:00
czr	oh my :-)	21:00
LinuxCode	how does one add a gpg key so apt can use it ?	21:00
LinuxCode	hmm	21:00
czr	then you can only fail.	21:00
lcuk_3	:(	21:01
* lcuk_3 is doomed		21:01
* LinuxCode will port fedora to this thing		21:01
czr	Doom 1, Doom 2 or Doom 3?	21:01
lcuk_3	the whole lot i think	21:02
czr	oh. you ARE doomed then :-)	21:02
czr	I still think I remember all the levels of doom 1 by heart.	21:02
lcuk_3	yer, proposal, wedding day, anniversary	21:02
LinuxCode	aha! apt-key	21:02
czr	heh lcuk_3	21:03
lcuk_3	i think this will be the only time i can get away with this.	21:03
* lcuk_3 is normally well under the thumb		21:03
czr	she's out and won't be reading your irclogs?	21:03
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LinuxCode	any of you guys set up the cross-compile sandbox ?	21:03
lcuk_3	ill show her when she returns	21:03
czr	LinuxCode, define what you mean by that. the SDK?	21:04
LinuxCode	the maemo sandbox build environment	21:04
LinuxCode	specified in the tutorial	21:04
lcuk_3	Scratchbox is the maemo cross compiler. theres plenty of support around for it	21:04
czr	maemo SDK.	21:04
czr	yeah, we've set it up.	21:04
LinuxCode	straight forward ?	21:04
czr	if you follow the instructions. which distro are you using?	21:05
LinuxCode	fedora	21:05
czr	ah, you'll probably run into problems with qemu then	21:05
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LinuxCode	hmm	21:05
lcuk_3	there is a vmware image all nicely setup for those who don't know or the more linux user friendly version for those who want to diy	21:05
czr	search the maemo-developers mailing list for 'fedora vdso'	21:05
czr	it's trivial to fix once you know how	21:05
LinuxCode	sweet	21:05
LinuxCode	thanks for the tip mate	21:05
LinuxCode	Im actually seriously pondering to port fedora	21:05
LinuxCode	hehe	21:06
LinuxCode	wasnt just a joke	21:06
czr	you should get out more often	21:06
lcuk_3	lol	21:06
LinuxCode	I tell myself that all the time	21:06
LinuxCode	;-\|	21:06
czr	then you notice the self-deception? :-)	21:06
LinuxCode	lol	21:06
LinuxCode	I have to self deceive myself	21:06
LinuxCode	Im working on something else atm	21:07
czr	that's how self-deception normally works	21:07
lcuk_3	now with n810 you can get out more AND play with linux	21:07
LinuxCode	only way to survive	21:07
* czr tries to self-deceive alterego to write the new kernel module doc		21:07
czr	lcuk_3, "why are your hands your pants' pockets all the time?" "Oh, I'm playing with my device"	21:07
lcuk_3	its ok, im logged in as root tho	21:08
LinuxCode	lcuk_3, hahah	21:08
lcuk_3	i dont think i could keep the 810 in my pocket, the light on the side throbs too often	21:09
czr	as long as you refrain from port scanning in public places, it should be ok	21:09
lcuk_3	im just worried people will port scan me	21:09
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* lcuk_3 crosses his legs		21:09
* czr notices that lcuk_3 is wearing a tutu		21:10
czr	I see your problem..	21:10
Blafasel	Maybe it's not that bad and only hurts the first time..	21:10
lcuk_3	and dont mention my furr lined case :\|	21:10
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czr	hah, forgot about the fur already	21:10
lcuk_3	she hadnt	21:10
* czr bets it's going to be pink		21:10
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lcuk_3	i bloody hope not	21:10
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lcuk_3	in all seriousness, does anywhere sell practical cases for 810 yet	21:11
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czr	well, if it would be dark brown, then people would just think that your chesthair is sticking out of your shirt pockets. is that really what you want?	21:11
czr	I haven't seen any	21:11
lcuk_3	nor have i - i think the keyboard is throwing the designers	21:11
lcuk_3	i might just move forward with my rubber bumpers idea	21:12
lcuk_3	and stick a screen protector on	21:12
Veggen_	ok. so no reflash today.	21:13
Veggen_	(damned cable-variations)	21:13
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lcuk_3	i gonna vanish - hopefully ill manage to hide all the furry stuff before she comes back	21:14
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* czr hands lcuk_3 a pack of razors		21:16
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* alterego yawns		21:25
alterego	I don't think I'll get this to work :(	21:26
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tomv	is there a way to run a chroot full of ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV) on a regular debian install of ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (ARM)?	21:29
alterego	O_o	21:29
alterego	Is that a maemo question?	21:29
tomv	alterego: the former is what maemo seems to use.	21:31
pupnik_	debian-arm or armel?	21:33
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tomv	armel in the chroot, arm on the outside.	21:35
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pupnik_	ahh..	21:43
LinuxCode	hmmmwaiting for headers	21:43
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pupnik_	wow! vmware lets you do vnc remoting of the whole session, including console!	21:47
pupnik_	... collaborative development with scratchbox + vmware...	21:48
alterego	you can do that with qemu/kvm to ..	21:57
alterego	~too	21:57
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\|R	anyone remember where is the mount command with noexec so i can change it to exec in the OS2008?	22:04
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b0unc3	\|R: you need to modify the fstab or mount -o exec ...	22:09
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\|R	b0unc3 : fstab is not used, it's in a script somewhere	22:09
\|R	fstab even points mmc1 to the wrong device (not the one actually used, flipping 1 and 2)	22:10
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b0unc3	\|R: /usr/sbin/mmc-mount	22:10
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\|R	hoorray! thanks :)	22:10
\|R	grep didn't find it for some reasons...	22:10
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penguinbait	<-- Drops Pin	22:36
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* Lynoure picks the pin up (dangerous sharp things)		22:37
penguinbait	I was just thinking that was a really deep hole	22:37
Lynoure	Did not actually go to the bottom... yey for telescopic magnet sticks =)	22:38
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czr	telescopic magnet stick actually sounds rather dangeours	22:41
Lynoure	czr: I thought that when I passed one in a store today... Luckily I no longer really need one, not that much pins around anymore	22:42
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czr	imagine going into some fully metallic room and all of the sudden all kinds of things poking out of your pockets. not convenient!	22:42
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penguinbait	maybe I need to stop walking around with pins in my pockets?	22:43
Lynoure	heh, is that a stick in your pocket or... =)	22:43
lophyte	hey all	22:43
penguinbait	ouch!	22:43
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Lynoure	lophyte: hello :)	22:44
czr	Lynoure, indeed.	22:44
lophyte	sounds like a room full of bored folks ;)	22:44
penguinbait	hehe	22:44
penguinbait	could be!	22:44
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* czr is updating the out-of-tree-module "guide"		22:44
czr	hence I'd give anything to do write it..	22:44
czr	poking sticks is an adequate diversion.	22:45
Lynoure	lophyte: no need to be bored to take advantage of a joke-potential	22:45
lophyte	lol	22:45
lophyte	true enough	22:45
lophyte	I'm sitting at work twiddling my thumbs, I should be coding...	22:45
czr	"#maemo, realizing the full potential since 2006"	22:45
czr	lophyte, thumb-keyboard for irc?	22:45
penguinbait	I think we need a maemohelp	22:46
lcuk_3	i think we simply need help	22:46
lophyte	actually my IT is sitting idle, no thumb-keyboard for me	22:46
ki6amd	Cheaterf	22:46
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Tam_	Hi	22:46
czr	lcuk_3, you at least do :-)	22:47
penguinbait	hello	22:47
ki6amd	J/k... Like the misspelling too there I bet?	22:47
lcuk_3	lol - its a good job my missus hasnt seen the pins ppl have around here	22:47
lcuk_3	re: maemohelp channel, if all the help was moved off to another channel how would we get ideas for new programs to write?	22:48
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penguinbait	I have heard from non-tech people #maemo is not very helpfull	22:48
penguinbait	so I figure make maemohelp, where you should be expected to put up with idiocy :)	22:49
lophyte	haha	22:49
lcuk_3	i don't think any contact point is perfect but at least (some of us) are real people who from what i have seen genuinely try to help	22:49
penguinbait	yes, but many smart asses too ;)	22:49
lcuk_3	the biggest problem with irc that i can see is people need help to get help	22:49
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ki6amd	So true	22:50
lcuk_3	penguin, happens everywhere	22:50
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penguinbait	even in the forums, I know	22:50
czr	even? :-)	22:50
lcuk_3	i started with a web based irc - it required no installation	22:50
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lophyte	I'm not around enough to offer assistance :\	22:51
penguinbait	I am working on putting #maemo on www.tablethacker.com, so we will have a quick IRC client	22:51
penguinbait	I am running mirc on windows right now	22:51
lophyte	then again I'm not that tablet savvy anyway, just linux savvy	22:51
penguinbait	anyone else notice that mirc guy is losing his hair :)	22:51
lophyte	I haven't use mirc in ages	22:52
ki6amd	Hmm... Where's the "pipe" on my 810 keyboard?	22:52
lophyte	if I'm even using windows, I use xchat	22:52
penguinbait	I really really like kvirc	22:52
lcuk_3	lophyte, i bet you can help ppl if they ask the right question..	22:52
lophyte	lcuk_3, most likely if its linux-related and not too tablet specific	22:52
lcuk_3	pipe on 810 is next to tab ;)	22:52
penguinbait	I am running Gaim on windows, not sure why I did not think of x-chat	22:52
ki6amd	Ahh, there it is... \|	22:52
penguinbait	I guess because mirc never expires	22:53
lophyte	penguinbait, http://silverex.org/news/	22:53
lophyte	free build of xchat for windows	22:53
lcuk_3	i started with http://ircatwork.com/	22:53
penguinbait	I was an old bitchx user :)	22:53
penguinbait	epic also	22:53
* czr started with http://www.eterna.com.au/ircii/		22:54
ki6amd	Having been a debian fanboy pays when you buy an IT, I'll tell you...	22:54
lophyte	hahah	22:54
lophyte	that's for sure	22:54
czr	at least I think I did. might have been something else before ircii	22:54
lophyte	I was glad when I bought my n800 and realized it had apt-get	22:54
* lcuk_3 has never had any practical experience with any linux		22:54
ki6amd	Whaa?	22:55
* lophyte tries his best not to use anything except linux		22:55
lcuk_3	ive dabbled and had a few live disks and installed a few full systems but never understood enough	22:55
czr	lcuk_3, so, the furry lining is appropriate, not? :-)	22:55
penguinbait	I learned linux whan I had a third shift tech job, I never did anything	22:55
lophyte	I have Windows in a VM when I need it	22:55
lcuk_3	lolol	22:55
lophyte	ie. to download MS reader ebooks	22:55
ki6amd	Has one windows box out of 7 computers he uses daily... The windows box is for warmth, and some games	22:56
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lcuk_3	i got this IT because I wanted something i couldn't give up on	22:56
cbx33	hey	22:56
lcuk_3	windows has always been a poor comforting device	22:56
lophyte	lol	22:56
lcuk_3	i still miss amiga OS tbh	22:56
penguinbait	I bought 770, because it was cheaper than and more available than the zaurus I had been druling over for years :)	22:56
lophyte	hahah, oh yeah for sure	22:56
penguinbait	Nokia made me a very happy camper :)	22:57
lophyte	agreed	22:57
lophyte	though I wish I would've waited for the 810	22:57
lophyte	I bought my n800 just before the 810 came out	22:57
jott	lcuk_3: install uae on your it ;)	22:57
penguinbait	I bought my 770 in Jan 2006, I am very glad I did not wait for 810	22:57
ki6amd	Me too... I got my 810 for $250us, btw	22:57
penguinbait	hell I am still waiting for my 810 :(	22:57
lophyte	the hardware keyboard would've been nice	22:57
penguinbait	good deal k6	22:58
lophyte	I guess I could sell my n800	22:58
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lcuk_3	jott, i did and ran for ages with it but real life does get in the way and without some major experience in windows i wouldnt have got a decent job	22:58
ki6amd	CompUSA going out of business sales are great!	22:58
lcuk_3	i would get an 800 tomorrow to compliment this 810	22:58
cbx33	hey can i restore from than n800 to an n810	22:58
jott	lcuk_3: hey you can always put it back in your pocket.. make it a secret ;)	22:59
penguinbait	I am the opposite, I turned some linux knowlege into a great paying unix job, windows experience does not pay high enough :)	22:59
ki6amd	Now there's a project...	22:59
lcuk_3	but im a developer and that pays enough bills	22:59
penguinbait	should work cbx33	22:59
LinuxCode	[20:59] penguinbait I am the opposite, I turned some linux knowlege into a great paying unix job, windows experience does not pay high enough :)	22:59
LinuxCode	winblows just sucks	23:00
penguinbait	I am lowly admin, not a developer :)	23:00
* cbx33 too		23:00
penguinbait	developers annoy me, NO OFFENSE	23:00
penguinbait	< ducks	23:00
lcuk_3	lol	23:00
* lophyte swings at penguinbait		23:00
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ki6amd	Lol	23:00
lophyte	< developer/sysadmin contractor	23:00
* lcuk_3 tells penguin there are some machines to move up 12 flights of stairs		23:00
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* lcuk_3 disables the lift		23:01
lcuk_3	god i remember jobs like that <- work experience in college...	23:01
penguinbait	I dont move machines, you need forklift to move the machines I work on	23:01
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ki6amd	I love developers... I'd love to be one, although networks are more fun for me.	23:02
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lophyte	I do a bit of everything	23:02
lophyte	lol	23:02
penguinbait	Alright we got the sysadmin and developers, and network folks	23:02
lcuk_3	you do what you need to do to get a job done	23:02
penguinbait	where are the SAN admins	23:02
* lcuk_3 will get his hands dirty if required		23:02
czr	penguinbait, it's only because you deserve it (annoying developers :-)	23:02
penguinbait	whos got thier IT booting over network hehe	23:02
ki6amd	Shoves a ataoe device on the network...	23:03
LinuxCode	woah	23:03
LinuxCode	lol	23:03
czr	ki6amd, aoe is more common acronym :-)	23:03
LinuxCode	when you install maemo bash it wants to remove like...anything thats essential	23:03
lcuk_3	ok folks, before this turns into a pitched battle, might i suggest we go for a beer?	23:03
* czr will buy beer to anyone close enough		23:04
penguinbait	never needed more than ash?	23:04
lophyte	I removed osso-media-player one time and it removed the browser with it	23:04
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ki6amd	To the fridge!	23:04
LinuxCode	penguinbait, I prefer bash	23:04
LinuxCode	just personal preference	23:04
penguinbait	czr where are you	23:04
penguinbait	I want a beer	23:04
czr	penguinbait, here :-). Hakaniemi/Helsinki/Finland.	23:04
ki6amd	Would love to see bash here too	23:04
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lcuk_3	Manchester England	23:04
penguinbait	me to, but I just have no real need for it	23:04
lophyte	< the other side of the world	23:04
ki6amd	California	23:04
czr	damn. you're all scattered around..	23:05
czr	obviously you don't love Nokia enough!	23:05
cbx33	anyone tried a restore from an n800 to an n810??? thanks penguinbait	23:05
penguinbait	oh, better count me out on the first round, its gonna take me a minute or two to get there	23:05
lcuk_3	its ok, remember - the internet is just a series of tubes. just pour beer into your router	23:05
lophyte	hahahah	23:05
czr	heh lcuk_3	23:05
penguinbait	seeing how 810 OS runs on 800, it seems like it would work	23:05
czr	BoRTP (Beer over Real Time Protocol)	23:06
ki6amd	Lol	23:06
lcuk_3	cbx - if you did a backup using a full version of OS2008 then you should not have any problems	23:06
penguinbait	you pour, I will wait here for beer to come out	23:06
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lcuk_3	if however you backed up using 2007 then you might have	23:06
penguinbait	Guiness only please :)	23:06
czr	just let's hope the RTP isn't run on top of IP over Avian Carrier networks	23:06
czr	we have guiness here though. I'm sure BoRTP wouldn't care.	23:07
penguinbait	< didn't consider peopel are actually still running 2007OS	23:07
cbx33	no no	23:07
cbx33	I was on os2008 on the n800	23:07
cbx33	latest release	23:07
LinuxCode	meh cant install autoconf either	23:07
lcuk_3	was it beta of 2008	23:07
LinuxCode	hehe	23:07
cbx33	just checking	23:07
cbx33	lcuk_3, no	23:07
LinuxCode	it would be nice if the deps would be more loose	23:07
cbx33	full release	23:07
lcuk_3	ahhh right cbx, it should be fine, but if you are restoring anyway try it and let us know	23:07
cbx33	I will	23:07
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lcuk_3	if it works we will add it to our borg memory	23:07
cbx33	I can always flash it again right?	23:07
cbx33	thanks	23:07
lcuk_3	yer	23:07
LinuxCode	how does one flash a n810 ?	23:08
lcuk_3	with a torch	23:08
czr	you find the brighest LED you can	23:08
LinuxCode	I had no cd or anything	23:08
cbx33	is it not the same way as an n800?	23:08
penguinbait	anyone here ever tun n810 stolen os on the n800?	23:08
cbx33	LinuxCode, no you download the flasher utility	23:08
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czr	LinuxCode, via USB cable from your computer	23:08
penguinbait	not beta	23:08
cbx33	penguinbait, ??	23:08
ki6amd	Hopefully, it's a light beer being shoved down the,pipes... We don't want our isp to get drunk...	23:08
lcuk_3	linux, in reality if you got the cable that came with it you get the flasher utility from nokia	23:08
LinuxCode	czr, kk thx	23:08
cbx33	they are the same right?	23:08
czr	penguinbait, tun?	23:08
LinuxCode	and cbx33	23:08
cbx33	heheh	23:08
penguinbait	I ran the n810 firmware on the n800 prior to n800 releasing 2008 beta	23:08
cbx33	oh i see	23:09
lcuk_3	you went back in time?	23:09
penguinbait	I am running latest OS now	23:09
cbx33	you were one of the naughty ones ;)	23:09
penguinbait	but	23:09
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czr	hmm. has 2008 been released for N800?	23:09
cbx33	czr, yes	23:09
lcuk_3	yes	23:09
* czr has been vacationing		23:09
cbx33	I have it	23:09
czr	thanks	23:09
penguinbait	in about, in control panel, I have unknown instead of version	23:09
cbx33	there is actually a second release isn't it?	23:09
czr	I'm still running a pre-release on it	23:10
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cbx33	ahh	23:10
cbx33	czr upgrade	23:10
czr	or rather, it's been installed, the device is powered off for ages :-)	23:10
cbx33	painless here	23:10
penguinbait	anyone else show unknown on latest 2008 n800 os	23:10
czr	err. I know :-)	23:10
cbx33	penguinbait, not tried	23:10
czr	I just don't use the devices much	23:10
ki6amd	I think it's time I get a bluetooth keyboard... Or put my thumbs on a diet	23:10
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czr	ki6amd, you could strech them	23:10
ki6amd	Sounds too painful	23:11
lcuk_3	version: 2.2007.50-2	23:11
penguinbait	or put them on a workout schedule	23:11
penguinbait	no carbs either	23:11
penguinbait	anyone else here try the 2008os on n800 prior to beta release?	23:11
cbx33	lcuk_3, snap	23:12
ki6amd	Less McDonald's too?	23:12
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LinuxCode	lol tar wont install either	23:12
LinuxCode	same thing	23:12
lcuk_3	penguinbait, you mean after it was released for 810, but before they beta tested it for 800? or something else	23:12
czr	penguinbait, me	23:12
czr	but I didn't use the 810 fw on it.	23:12
ki6amd	Well, gotta run, see ya'll l8r	23:13
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lcuk_3	how do i know if i am marked away - does my name change in here or do i just get greyed out?	23:14
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czr	lcuk_3, your name doesn't change. it shouldn't.	23:15
penguinbait	no I am wondering if anyone used 810 firmware on n800?	23:15
Veggen_	lcuk: name doesn't change. other than that, it's totally dependent upon what client one's using.	23:15
czr	lcuk_3, /whois lcuk_3	23:15
penguinbait	anyone else that is	23:15
Veggen_	(how it's shown)	23:15
czr	or depending on client, the name might be of different color in some list of nicks.	23:15
Veggen_	but at least it should show on /whois, yes.	23:16
lcuk_3	yer i'd just seen a few people changing names	23:16
czr	it's very annoying	23:16
czr	they just lurk on 20 channels and spam each channel on afk/aways	23:16
lcuk_3	ive got name list in my client i just didnt know how it worked in here	23:16
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lcuk_3	right, heads or tails folks ( heads i play with python, tails i code in Portal ) or something like that	23:18
czr	both.	23:18
czr	hence the language of Porhon is born.	23:18
lcuk_3	but i will drop my companion cube if i have to indent	23:18
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penguinbait	porn is born	23:19
lcuk_3	i just realised i havent even booted it up since i got n810	23:19
penguinbait	Al gore invented porn, right after the internet	23:19
penguinbait	duh!	23:19
lcuk_3	but porn was already invented b4 the internet	23:19
penguinbait	okok	23:20
lcuk_3	the bible originally started as a TGP	23:20
penguinbait	streaming porn	23:20
Veggen_	penguinbait: silly you. Of course he invented the internet to have a series of tubes to send his porn through. Unfortunately, the instructions were a bit clear, he wanted physical tubes but what got out of it was virtual tubes.	23:21
Veggen_	But that did, unfortunately, not stop the porn.	23:21
Veggen_	(or fortunately, depending on your point of view)	23:21
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czr	alterego, http://koltsoff.com/pub/hello-n800/	23:22
lcuk_3	becareful with your point of view, you'll have someones eye out with it	23:22
jott	could someone please confirm this funny sbox bug (chinook arm)? do "touch stat.so"	23:23
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penguinbait	youll poke your eye out!	23:24
penguinbait	youll poke your eye out!	23:24
lcuk_3	WARNING: do not look at the porn with your remaining eye	23:24
penguinbait	sorry its that 24hours of a christmas story around the holidays	23:25
czr	jott, ok	23:25
czr	jott, interesting :-)	23:25
penguinbait	I just want a red rider bb gun?	23:25
czr	jott, now my sbox is broken btw :-)	23:26
jott	you can just "rm" it to fix it ;)	23:26
czr	jott, but hey, that's pretty cool :-)	23:26
penguinbait	I tar mine up as soon as its setup	23:26
czr	the X86 side doesn't have it?	23:26
penguinbait	makes recovery easier	23:26
penguinbait	and alternate sbox instanes also	23:26
jott	yeah especially if there is really a stat.so and hence the build fails ;)	23:27
penguinbait	s/instanes/instances	23:27
czr	ah, X86 is also broken	23:27
czr	jott, my sbox breaks completely once I execute that. login fails as well after that	23:27
lcuk_3	i gather i shouldnt try touching the stats on the 810?	23:27
czr	'import site' failed; use -v for traceback..	23:27
jott	eek.. yeah just delete the file..	23:27
czr	jott, I know. just very interesting.	23:27
jott	indeed	23:27
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czr	jott, any ideas what causes it?	23:28
czr	that's python breaking for sure, but why..	23:28
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czr	and which python :-)	23:28
czr	touch is a binary command, so it's not that. but the sbox environment uses python for something on the background or something similar?	23:28
jott	yeah all is wrapped in a python session afaik	23:29
jott	to delegate host/target stuff	23:29
czr	"great" :-)	23:29
czr	haha	23:29
czr	I found another one	23:29
czr	os.so ;-)	23:29
czr	different error too ;-)	23:29
jott	hehe luckly this is not a production env.. i imagine very nice code injections with this one..	23:30
czr	jott, have you reported this yet?	23:30
jott	no just discovered it..	23:30
* czr nods		23:30
czr	yeah. interesting stuff.	23:30
jott	where should i report this anyway? :)	23:30
jott	maybe it's fixed upstream already..	23:30
czr	ask on #scratchbox	23:30
jott	yeah good point	23:31
czr	they'll know what to do with bugs from maemo versions of sbox I guess	23:31
czr	and reporting them in maemo wouldn't make much sense I guess	23:31
czr	the culprit is /scratchbox/tools/bin/intehbox	23:32
czr	inthebox even	23:32
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jott	yep..	23:33
jott	though i don't see that file does something wrong (but importing sys and os :)	23:34
jott	and probably doing a stat :)	23:34
czr	I'm working on a fix	23:34
czr	well. it does use chroot. which implies root privs	23:35
czr	or no. it doesn't :-)	23:35
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czr	jott, interesting that python by default does not do that. it's the sbox version that's somehow broken	23:37
Tama^2	Is Khertan around?	23:38
jott	lets try an ltrace of the sbox session :)..	23:38
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michele_	/usr/bin/scratchbox: line 234: 21359 Segmentation fault (core dumped)	23:44
michele_	nice	23:44
cbx33	i didn't know the n810 only had one memory card slot	23:44
cbx33	and that it wasn't sd	23:44
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michele_	I amtrying to build evince (the ported one in garage), but pkg-config complains	23:48
michele_	checking for GDU_MODULE_VERSION_CHECK... configure: error: Package requirements (gnome-doc-utils >= 0.3.2) were not met:	23:48
michele_	No package 'gnome-doc-utils' found	23:48
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lophyte	back	23:49
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czr	jott, it's not simple	23:49
czr	it's an evil thing.	23:49
jott	hm yeah and the #scratchbox people are away or asleep atm..	23:50
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jott	22:51 < dpb> It's a known bug pto	23:52
jott	22:51 < jott> ok, is there a workaround? tobb	23:52
jott	22:51 < dpb> No, as far as I know. veli	23:52
jott	:/	23:52
jott	(ignore the pto tobb veli ;)	23:52
czr	interesting	23:52
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czr	I might have found a solution	23:54
czr	although I'm not at all sure whether it's the correct one.	23:54
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czr	jott, you using the env to build something?	23:55
czr	(i.e., you want to test the fix?)	23:55
michele_	anybody knows how I can disable the gnome-doc-utils check?	23:55
jott	czr: sure i'll give it a try	23:56
jott	http://bugzilla.scratchbox.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=298	23:56
czr	jott, outside sbox, do the following:	23:57
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czr	modify the #! line of /scratchbox/tools/bin/inthebox to read: #!/usr/bin/python -E	23:57
czr	(original is /usr/bin/env python)	23:58
czr	the problem is caused by python reading site.py when it starts (before any script is executed)	23:58
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czr	that was the part which triggered the problems	23:58
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hachi	I'm getting an 'operation failed' when I try to update my apps list in the app manager	23:58
czr	jott, you have account in sbox-bugzilla? or should I report this?	23:58
czr	or rather, report the fix and observations	23:59
jott	czr: no i have no account.. i guess adding to 298 would be good..	23:59
czr	jott, ok. will do.	23:59
czr	tell me how it goes	23:59
czr	(testing the fix)	23:59
Cptnodegard	wooot	23:59
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Cptnodegard	igo for 18 pounds o.o	23:59
jott	czr looks good so far.. (don't know if it has side effects yetz)	23:59
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