| halley | Just not with any dev discounts, apparently. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| derf | Anyway... I suspected something along those lines until I was recently in Connecticut with a friend who has a Tom-Tom (connected to some car-mounted GPS unit, I don't know which). | 00:00 |
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| Solarion | ok, with dev discount, how about that. :) | 00:01 |
| derf | And I'm sitting there spending several minutes waiting for it to acquire, even though I'm 15 feet from where it last had a lock, and he just turns it on and is ready to go. | 00:01 |
| skibur | hello? | 00:01 |
| Solarion | nokiausa won't let me put one in my shopping cart. :( | 00:01 |
| derf | (again, with my own el cheapo bluetooth unit... I don't have an N810) | 00:02 |
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| halley | The acquisition time is 45 seconds on each locked satellite, to read its ephemeris orbit data; you need 4 sats to lock your position, some apps wait for 5. | 00:02 |
| halley | The 45sec is dictated by the GPS protocol, not the terra device. | 00:03 |
| derf | Sure... if it took 45 seconds, that'd be one thing. | 00:03 |
| derf | Long, but nothing more than a minor annoyance. | 00:03 |
| elb | derf: if you're waiting several minutes when you're only 15' from the last lock, that is indeed a poor implementation | 00:04 |
| halley | If they're not in view, you can't start the process. Sometimes a sat goes OUT of view before you get your 5. | 00:04 |
| derf | When it takes 2-5 minutes or more, that's something else. | 00:04 |
| Solarion | so, any hints on how to buy an n810 with dev code in the USA? The salesmonkey I talked to said it required choosing a carrier (becase the n810 requires a SIM card in order to operate) | 00:04 |
| elb | derf: probably a software problem ... perhaps it expects you to *tell* it what hte last position is | 00:04 |
| derf | elb: I suspect a large part of it comes down to really shitty firmware. | 00:04 |
| fysa | Solarion: it doesn't even have a SIM slot.. | 00:04 |
| fysa | it's wifi only. | 00:04 |
| elb | halley: 3 satellites will give you a 2-D fix, many old GPS units could only receive 3 signals | 00:04 |
| fysa | (and tethers via bluetooth) | 00:04 |
| Solarion | fysa: yeah, well she'd have none of that | 00:05 |
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| derf | halley: They're in view. I can see the signal strength bouncing up and down in maemo-mapper. | 00:05 |
| fysa | print the Nokia spec sheet and bring it back in? ;) | 00:05 |
| Solarion | fysa: I can't buy it on nokiausa because I have to select a carrier. | 00:05 |
| fysa | ah | 00:05 |
| Solarion | fysa: bring? It was phone. | 00:05 |
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| Solarion | she even (supposedly) looked it up! | 00:05 |
| halley | elb, true, but uncommon now. | 00:06 |
| derf | I'd consider paying real money for a bluetooth GPS with very good firmware, even for use with the N810. | 00:06 |
| derf | But I can't find any reliable information on things like that. | 00:06 |
| elb | halley: I only mention this because my receiver will give me a fix with 3 signals, without altitude :-) | 00:06 |
| halley | The n810's gps antenna is near the snoring led, and it's not very sensitive. | 00:06 |
| derf | elb: Right, because most of the time you don't need altitude. | 00:06 |
| elb | derf: if it's having to start over from *scratch*, there's more information it has to gather -- and that will take several minutes | 00:06 |
| elb | again, that's part of the GPS protocol | 00:07 |
| rm_you | in Japan, cell phones do have GPS | 00:07 |
| rm_you | all of them. | 00:07 |
| derf | elb: I said, it's 15 feet from the last time I had it turned on. | 00:07 |
| halley | I can lock with my Garmin at 36000ft in about 48sec, but couldn't get 4 sats on the n810. | 00:07 |
| rm_you | it's part of the spec or something >_> | 00:07 |
| elb | I know at least some of them do | 00:07 |
| elb | derf: that doesn't mean it _knows_ that | 00:07 |
| derf | It shouldn't be having to start from scratch. | 00:07 |
| halley | derf, it doesn't care how far you were last locked. | 00:07 |
| elb | my GPS has a way to short circuit that search if you know approximately where you are | 00:07 |
| rm_you | I would like to see some accurate specs on the n810 builtin gps... my bluetooth one will lock in under 30 seconds from a cold start, and under 15 from not | 00:08 |
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| derf | Mine has one button: power. | 00:08 |
| elb | you can find your position on a built-in map and say "I'm here", and it'll then lock in 45s or so, even if (for example) you're in Russia and your last lock was in Indiana ;-) | 00:08 |
| halley | If it stores ephemeris, and that ephemeris doesn't need updating, yes, it can be shortcut by not seeking sat22 when it's below the horizon. | 00:08 |
| derf | And the only visible output is one LED. | 00:08 |
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| elb | halley: actually, it does -- if your last lock was close by, and not long ago, it'll fix itself quite a bit more quickly than if it has no idea where to begin | 00:08 |
| elb | is 22 WAAS ? | 00:09 |
| rm_you | I have *three* leds! :P lol | 00:09 |
| derf | Well, it is a tri-color LED. | 00:09 |
| halley | I picked a number at random. Sat22, Sat4, whatever. | 00:09 |
| rm_you | heh | 00:09 |
| elb | ahh, I see | 00:09 |
| derf | It may be three separate LEDs all in the same package. | 00:09 |
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| rm_you | This is what I have: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858702003 | 00:10 |
| elb | with my GPS, if I'm far from my previous location, getting the first lock takes a LONG time (say, 2-3 minutes), and the rest fall in almost immediately after that (presumably because it provided enough information) | 00:10 |
| |tbb| | derf thats what i think | 00:10 |
| elb | if I tell it where I am to within a few hundred miles, the lock is the same as if it hasn't been on for a day or so without moving | 00:10 |
| derf | Anyway... I want something small, bluetooth, and that doesn't suck. | 00:11 |
| elb | if it was on within the past 1-2 hours, it locks in about 5 seconds | 00:11 |
| derf | I'm willing to pay money for it. | 00:11 |
| derf | Why is this so hard? | 00:11 |
| rm_you | derf: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858702003 is *great* | 00:11 |
| halley | elb, it likely decides from the first lock if the other sats' ephemeris is stale. | 00:11 |
| elb | halley: that's my assumption | 00:11 |
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| elb | but it has to wait for the whole signal to come in | 00:11 |
| elb | and since that information is very low bitrate ... it takes a while :-) | 00:11 |
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| rm_you | i got it to lock in under 45 seconds *on an airplane* | 00:12 |
| elb | particularly if the signal is less than spectacular | 00:12 |
| rm_you | which was probably bad, actually, since they say no wireless stuff >_> | 00:12 |
| elb | rm_you: then it was broken | 00:12 |
| halley | Yes, Garmins or Magellans are good about having ephemeris *predictions* too, but that's not likely in little embedded gps. | 00:12 |
| derf | rm_you: How big is that? It's hard to tell from the picture. | 00:12 |
| rm_you | err | 00:12 |
| elb | well, it might just be Really Good, but I find that unlikely | 00:12 |
| derf | Actually, airplanes are usually pretty easy if you can hold it close to the window. | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, GPS isn't a problem. | 00:12 |
| elb | most GPS units are incapable of fixing their position *accurately* above a few hundred MPH | 00:12 |
| derf | Good visbility. | 00:12 |
| rm_you | it said i was going 300mph | 00:13 |
| rm_you | and it showed me damn accurately | 00:13 |
| elb | was it a tiny plane? | 00:13 |
| rm_you | 7747 | 00:13 |
| rm_you | *747 | 00:13 |
| derf | Oh, well my el cheapo unit has always worked pretty well on an airplane. | 00:13 |
| elb | most commercial jets fly quite a bit faster than 300mph | 00:13 |
| rm_you | we were landing | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | My i-blue 737 locked in about 35 seconds doing ~500-ish in a 757. | 00:13 |
| CrashandDie | hey anyone a pidgin user here for the MSN IM client ? | 00:13 |
| elb | 300mph must be within its capability, then | 00:13 |
| fysa | .. | 00:13 |
| derf | It was maybe a hundred meters off when we landed. | 00:13 |
| fysa | just shut it | 00:13 |
| derf | But once we slowed down under 100 mph it fixed it. | 00:14 |
| derf | On my last trip, I mean. | 00:14 |
| elb | derf: yeah, that's typical for most GPS units | 00:14 |
| elb | it'll get a fix, it just can't be very accurate | 00:14 |
| elb | because it's not fast enough | 00:14 |
| derf | I'm okay with being 100 meters off when going 500 mph. | 00:14 |
| CrashandDie | does anyone know if pidgin supports the nokia webcam ? | 00:14 |
| rm_you | it was like, a straight line into the runway :) which was pretty cool, actually | 00:14 |
| fysa | nope | 00:14 |
| elb | many will say they can't *get* a fix, becaus etheir 95% zone is simply too large | 00:14 |
| fysa | AMSN does | 00:14 |
| rm_you | it may have been a little bit off, i suppose | 00:14 |
| fysa | and Gizmo.. | 00:14 |
| CrashandDie | hmm | 00:14 |
| CrashandDie | yeah but gizmo doesn't do msn | 00:15 |
| fysa | then get AMSN | 00:15 |
| CrashandDie | hmm | 00:15 |
| elb | I don't think my GPS is capable of reporting a 95% fix of larger than 150' | 00:15 |
| elb | I've certainly never seen one | 00:15 |
| fysa | http://kakaroto.homelinux.net/~kakaroto/n800/ | 00:15 |
| fysa | http://www.amsn-project.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3659 | 00:15 |
| KaKaRoTo | http://kakaroto.homelinux.net/~kakaroto/n810/ for chinook | 00:15 |
| derf | rm_you: You didn't answer my question of how big it was. | 00:15 |
| elb | anyway, like I said, I'm interested to see the n810 GPS :-) | 00:16 |
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| fysa | hey hey, kakarota. thanks for the port. | 00:16 |
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| KaKaRoTo | fysa, you're welcome :) | 00:16 |
| rm_you | derf: dont have a ruler handy, but... if i set it on the numpad on my keyboard, it takes up from the 8 to the corner of the enter key | 00:16 |
| rm_you | derf: a little less than, actually, but pretty close | 00:16 |
| rm_you | like, covering the 8,9,5,6,2,3,part of the 0, ./del, +, enter | 00:17 |
| rm_you | i wish i had a ruler :( | 00:17 |
| rm_you | pffft | 00:17 |
| rm_you | the dimensions are on the site | 00:18 |
| rm_you | 2.75" by 1.86" by .75" | 00:18 |
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| derf | Oh, hey, I dind't scroll past all the useless reviews. | 00:19 |
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| rm_you | lol | 00:19 |
| rm_you | click on the specs tab | 00:19 |
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| derf | I did, I _also_ went to the manufacturer's page, where it is $6 cheaper. | 00:19 |
| rm_you | actually, those reviews are what made me buy it... it was cheap, and the reviews said it worked with maemoMap | 00:19 |
| rm_you | heh | 00:19 |
| derf | rm_you: That's how I bought my last one. | 00:19 |
| keesj | I , I think I f*cked up my n810 ... http://paste-it.net/5685/raw/ | 00:20 |
| derf | And they were accurate. It _was_ cheap, and it _did_ work... eventually. Usually. | 00:20 |
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| rm_you | lol | 00:22 |
| rm_you | i love this thing. i always get a lock, and it's always quick and accurate | 00:22 |
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| rm_you | and the battery lasts forever :) and i have a usb cable with me to charge it whenever | 00:22 |
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| rm_you | i just kinda walk up to people's computers and plug it in, and they're like... what? :P | 00:23 |
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| fysa | n810 charges off USB? | 00:24 |
| elb | no | 00:24 |
| fysa | or am I missing something? | 00:25 |
| elb | that bluetooth gps does | 00:25 |
| fysa | ahh | 00:25 |
| F463D9 | there are usb power adapters that are supposed to work for the n810 | 00:25 |
| fysa | that have a USB cable with a nokia tip? ;) | 00:25 |
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| F463D9 | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QJ6TNC/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=IJK5RX3T9KGHR&colid=36EF9MSPC8HKE | 00:26 |
| halley | Yeah, I'm a bit annoyed at the recharge plug myself. | 00:28 |
| halley | I don't need yet another wall wart. | 00:28 |
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| Spakman_ | bye | 00:29 |
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| rm_you | yeah i really wish they had just done USB charging too :( | 00:29 |
| rm_you | i was tempted to do the solder thing that supposedly makes it work, but I'm not sure what effect that would have on usb devices that I want to plug in when i get host mode working :P | 00:30 |
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| rm_you | so, i shall ask again today... anyone know how to get the GtkWidget "HildonControlbar" to function inside a GtkMenu? | 00:33 |
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| derf | I just bought a $15 cable at Circuit City. | 00:34 |
| rm_you | alternatively, is that the wrong approach to duplicate the visual style of the builtin nokia Brightness app / Volume app? | 00:34 |
| derf | USB to Nokia 2mm power connector. | 00:34 |
| derf | Nokia sells one, too, but it's like $35. | 00:34 |
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| rm_you | what is the circuitcity cable called? | 00:35 |
| rm_you | i will buy one right now if it's $15 lol | 00:35 |
| derf | Yeah, that's what I said. | 00:35 |
| derf | Hold on, looking it up. | 00:35 |
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| derf | http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Kensington-USB-Power-Tips-for-Nokia-Mobile-Phones-24512US/sem/rpsm/oid/184694/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do | 00:36 |
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| rm_you | lol it's for their phones? | 00:36 |
| derf | The tip is a little too long, so it doesn't fit snugly into the port, but it works. | 00:36 |
| rm_you | and it works great i assume? | 00:36 |
| rm_you | hrm | 00:36 |
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| derf | I mean, I've never had it fall out or anything, it just sticks out a little. | 00:37 |
| rm_you | >_> | 00:37 |
| rm_you | now, the question is... do i care $20 worth about a snug fit... >_> | 00:37 |
| derf | I cared $20 worth that I could drive over and have it today. | 00:38 |
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| rm_you | heh | 00:40 |
| rm_you | libgueefalfjvlnfuy3oq48g7vo4yr7b 3g0274p2 | 00:43 |
| Mudhoney | I have WLAN connections set to "connect automatically" and "search interval" to 5 minutes. Idle time is unlimited. Does anyone know why it would not try to use a connection I've defined even if it has been 5 minutes since I was disconnected and I'm within range? | 00:43 |
| rm_you | this gtk shit is driving me @(#$&ing nuts | 00:43 |
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| Mudhoney | I think it will reconnect if I use the browser or rss feed app. otherwise it doesn't seem to do it automatically | 00:44 |
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| Mudhoney | Where I work, the wireless is spotty so sometimes I get disconnected walking around and I'd like to stay connected as much as possible. | 00:45 |
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| Mudhoney | maybe someone knows of a way to hack the n800's wireless equipment for better reception? | 00:49 |
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| keesj | can the flasher tool --hw-revision set the hardware and revision code? | 00:49 |
| Robot101 | keesj: no | 00:50 |
| keesj | I apparently changed my n810 into a n800 by performing a funky flash operation | 00:50 |
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| Robot101 | ... ouch | 00:51 |
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| keesj | It had become Found device RX-34, hardware revision 0805 | 00:52 |
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| keesj | and what is a cold flash? | 00:54 |
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| Robot101 | keesj: cold flashing is when you have the device on a debugging connector called a jig | 00:54 |
| Robot101 | keesj: it connects up the serial port | 00:54 |
| Robot101 | keesj: you feed the bootloader to the device over serial | 00:55 |
| Robot101 | and that's implemented in hardware | 00:55 |
| Robot101 | so you can recover a device with a mangled bootloader | 00:55 |
| Robot101 | or work around a bug in the bootloader which can harm flashing | 00:55 |
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| derf | rm_you: Well, I bought the thing. Should arrive before I leave the country for 3 weeks. | 00:58 |
| rm_you | :) | 00:58 |
| derf | So we'll see how it does. | 00:58 |
| rm_you | Newegg ships ridiculously fast | 00:58 |
| derf | I know. I love it. | 00:58 |
| keesj | I think it is the flash that refuses to flash atm http://paste-it.net/5685 . I have a black screen but I see the lights are on and the device responsd | 00:59 |
| rm_you | yeah, it was a very painless setup, and it does work great... i hope your experience is similarly excellent :P | 00:59 |
| derf | If I don't, I'll send you a bill. | 01:00 |
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| rm_you | lol | 01:01 |
| rm_you | just a note: if you have a motorola cell phone or any other wall plug usb charger, it probably won't work | 01:02 |
| rm_you | at least, the one for my phone didn't | 01:02 |
| derf | Huh, why not? | 01:02 |
| rm_you | but USB to computer seems 100% | 01:02 |
| rm_you | and the wall plug they ship works | 01:02 |
| rm_you | so | 01:02 |
| rm_you | different voltage? dunno | 01:03 |
| rm_you | it didn't seem to harm it though when i tried, fortunately | 01:03 |
| rm_you | it just wouldn't trigger the charge light | 01:03 |
| derf | Well, the car charger let's you plug a USB cable into _it_, instead of having its own cable attached. | 01:03 |
| derf | The car charger I have, I meant to say. | 01:03 |
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| johnx | hopefully anything that comes out of a USB mini-B is 5v | 01:04 |
| rm_you | ah, well, that will probably work, as it's more standard | 01:04 |
| johnx | it might just not be enough amperage | 01:04 |
| derf | So I can use it with the aforementioned Kingston cable to also charge the N800. | 01:04 |
| rm_you | maybe | 01:04 |
| derf | It would be nice to have just one adapter and swap cables. | 01:04 |
| rm_you | *maybe @ johnx | 01:04 |
| rm_you | yeah | 01:04 |
| rm_you | that will prolly work fine | 01:04 |
| rm_you | every other USB charge plug i've tried besides the one for my cell phone works fine | 01:05 |
| keesj | bugger | 01:05 |
| derf | We'll see... I mean, I can keep both adapters in the glove box. | 01:05 |
| rm_you | lets see... 5v 550mA | 01:05 |
| rm_you | for cell phone | 01:05 |
| johnx | aaah...that would make sense | 01:05 |
| rm_you | 5v 500mA for gps >_> | 01:05 |
| rm_you | maybe i just got unlucky | 01:06 |
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| derf | I thought the USB standard mandated only 500 mA? | 01:06 |
| rm_you | sec, will try it again :P | 01:06 |
| johnx | the max that something is *supposed* to be able to draw from a USB port is 500mA | 01:06 |
| johnx | a lot of laptops only do <300mA and the Zaurus/N8x0/(other OTG device) only do 100-200mA | 01:06 |
| rm_you | pfft nevermind anything i said | 01:06 |
| rm_you | it works fine this time | 01:06 |
| johnx | heh | 01:06 |
| rm_you | *happy* | 01:06 |
| derf | That was supposedly Nokia's reason for not having a USB charger built-in, was the amperage requirement. | 01:07 |
| CrashandDie | what is flite for ? | 01:07 |
| CrashandDie | it says flite works with maemo mapper | 01:07 |
| derf | Speech synthesis. | 01:08 |
| derf | It reads the route points as you approach them. | 01:08 |
| CrashandDie | so maemo mapper can do GPS routing , | 01:08 |
| CrashandDie | ? | 01:08 |
| rm_you | hrm, though cell phone won't charge from the GPS one | 01:08 |
| rm_you | so yeah, my cell phone is non-standard | 01:08 |
| derf | Well... roughly. | 01:08 |
| CrashandDie | hmm | 01:08 |
| rm_you | which is annoying, because i bought a battery -> usb thingy for like $20 and it doesnt work with my cell phone | 01:09 |
| derf | It doesn't try to fix the GPS position to a point on the track. | 01:09 |
| rm_you | but it does charge the GPS and hopefully will my n800 when i get that cable :) | 01:09 |
| CrashandDie | well I am going to take the 3 year wayfinder subscription | 01:09 |
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| derf | And it gets the route from a web service... so you have to be connected to download it. | 01:09 |
| rm_you | can wayfinder get routes *NOT* connected!? | 01:09 |
| rm_you | that would be... sweet | 01:09 |
| CrashandDie | yeah, ok | 01:09 |
| CrashandDie | rm_you, sure | 01:10 |
| derf | rm_you: I have no idea. | 01:10 |
| rm_you | hrm | 01:10 |
| CrashandDie | rm_you, that's why you have to download such huge waypoints | 01:10 |
| rm_you | >_> | 01:10 |
| CrashandDie | btw | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can pre-download routes with maemo mapper. | 01:10 |
| rm_you | it's actually very small compared to MaemoMapper's mapfiles | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | vector-based. | 01:10 |
| derf | GeneralAntilles: Right... until you make a wrong turn, or want to go somewhere else. | 01:10 |
| rm_you | yeah | 01:10 |
| rm_you | :/ | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sure, derf, but it's also free. ;) | 01:11 |
| rm_you | lol | 01:11 |
| CrashandDie | well I'm sorry, it was preloaded with canada and the whole us waypoints, and I live in Europe, so my memory was full :D | 01:11 |
| derf | GeneralAntilles: I'm not disparaging what John's done. | 01:11 |
| rm_you | hehe | 01:11 |
| derf | I'm just saying. | 01:11 |
| rm_you | yeah, for sure | 01:11 |
| rm_you | the app is amazinf | 01:11 |
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| rm_you | *amazing | 01:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | It does do recalculation with a cellular connection. | 01:11 |
| CrashandDie | yeah, it is | 01:11 |
| CrashandDie | just wondered | 01:11 |
| derf | I have no idea how he found the time to write it. | 01:11 |
| CrashandDie | do you guys get low-def on google satellite view too ? | 01:11 |
| CrashandDie | I can't zoom in as much as I can on say, google maps or google earth | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I love maemo mapper for outdoor stuff. | 01:12 |
| CrashandDie | it's quite pixelated | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | The sat view is amazing. | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Do you have pixel doubling on, CrashandDie? | 01:12 |
| rm_you | hrm... i wonder if it would be possible to reverse-engineer a way for MM to read the mapfiles from the other mapper | 01:12 |
| rm_you | cause the mapfiles are free... right? | 01:12 |
| CrashandDie | GeneralAntilles, not that I know off | 01:12 |
| derf | CrashandDie: Old maemo mapper versions only had 16 zoom levels. | 01:12 |
| |tbb| | how to force kill a app if kill PID or killall progname doesnt work? | 01:12 |
| derf | The new ones have 20. | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, let me rephrase: you have pixel doubling on. :P | 01:12 |
| CrashandDie | oh right, because I didn't update the OS :/ | 01:12 |
| derf | Which as near as I can tell, go as far as maps.google.com does. | 01:13 |
| johnx | rm_you, builtin "Maps" uses vector maps IIRC | 01:13 |
| rm_you | yeah... | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | That would be hilarious if maemo mapper could use the "Map" maps and routing info. | 01:13 |
| rm_you | cause then i could fit the entire USWest in the same space as the two cities i have downloaded currently >_> | 01:13 |
| CrashandDie | it wouldn't be hilarious, it would be awesome | 01:14 |
| derf | Yes... .jpg is not ideal for street maps. | 01:14 |
| rm_you | yeah :/ | 01:14 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: so yeah, i'm stuck on that brightness app | 01:14 |
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| derf | At least the new database format means it isn't wasting 32KB on 100-byte JPEGs of a solid color. | 01:14 |
| rm_you | 0.2 is pretty much the best i am going to be able to do unless someone magically appears to tell me how to fit the damn controlbar into a menu | 01:14 |
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| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: but at 0.2 it is very usable, i believe | 01:15 |
| |tbb| | anyone could help? | 01:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | How is the hell is there nobody around who knows how the Nokia applets work? | 01:16 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: I know, right!? >_< wtf | 01:16 |
| derf | I hate fat32 so much... "What do you mean my 100MB of data requires 2GB of disk storage?" | 01:16 |
| rm_you | heh | 01:16 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: well, did you grab 0.2? it has nice display features :P | 01:16 |
| CrashandDie | there's one thing I want to do for the n810 | 01:17 |
| rm_you | as in, it correctly displays the dynamically filling brightness icon :P | 01:17 |
| CrashandDie | and that's try to get as close to paquet injection as anyone can | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I've got 0.2 | 01:17 |
| CrashandDie | trying** | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Crashed the desktop a couple times | 01:17 |
| rm_you | :( | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | couldn't tell you why. | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Working fine now. | 01:17 |
| rm_you | hrm | 01:17 |
| |tbb| | go CrashandDie go for it ;) | 01:17 |
| rm_you | that's... odd? | 01:17 |
| rm_you | lol | 01:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, dunno. | 01:18 |
| CrashandDie | |tbb|, heh :) | 01:18 |
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| |tbb| | so how can i force kill a process if killall or kill not work | 01:19 |
| keesj | killall -9 | 01:20 |
| CrashandDie | kill -9 | 01:20 |
| |tbb| | :) | 01:20 |
| keesj | kill -9 -1 is my preffered one | 01:21 |
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| rm_you | gah how do i remove a file named "-o" | 01:21 |
| rm_you | i tried rm \-o and rm '-o' and rm '\-o' | 01:22 |
| rm_you | >_> | 01:22 |
| b0unc3 | rm \"-o\" | 01:22 |
| rm_you | nope :/ | 01:23 |
| jott | rm -- -o | 01:23 |
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| rm_you | THANK YOU | 01:23 |
| rm_you | lol | 01:23 |
| CrashandDie | rm lol | 01:23 |
| CrashandDie | hmm | 01:23 |
| CrashandDie | sorry bout that | 01:23 |
| CrashandDie | already typed rm, then added lol | 01:23 |
| johnx | yeah don't remove the laughs here. :P | 01:24 |
| CrashandDie | wouldn't be a lot left :D | 01:24 |
| CrashandDie | okay, so what do you guys prefer for deving for maemo ? | 01:24 |
| keesj | rm ./-o | 01:24 |
| CrashandDie | C/GTK ? | 01:24 |
| CrashandDie | what is the interface based on ? | 01:24 |
| johnx | I don't dev but the two most popular things are: C/GTK and python/GTK | 01:25 |
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| CrashandDie | C++ not popular ? | 01:26 |
| johnx | hmmm...I don't know | 01:26 |
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| johnx | I'm 90% sure there are C++ bindings for hildon/gtk | 01:26 |
| CrashandDie | where can I find other applets ? For the home screen ? | 01:27 |
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| fugitivo | I like C/GTK | 01:27 |
| derf | C++ is bad for your health. | 01:27 |
| |tbb| | how can i increase the number of commands while using uparrow in xterm and how can i tell xterm if i run the same command twice it should handle it as one and not overwrite the one before | 01:28 |
| fugitivo | some people use python | 01:28 |
| johnx | CrashandDie, applets are all over the place...but not really organized anywhere | 01:28 |
| CrashandDie | that's too bad | 01:28 |
| johnx | CrashandDie, OMWeather is popular and "simple launcher" | 01:28 |
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| Toma- | does anyone have KDE running on a 770 or n800? | 01:31 |
| johnx | Toma-, Penguinbait does | 01:31 |
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| Toma- | that was awesome timing. | 01:31 |
| Toma- | penguinbait➜ would it be possible to have a peek at the kde launcher for 770 or n800? | 01:32 |
| johnx | Toma-, yeah. That took a while to plan and synchronize. :D | 01:32 |
| Toma- | hehehe :P | 01:32 |
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| CrashandDie | anyone got other tips for nice applets ? | 01:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | N810? | 01:34 |
| |tbb| | a run applet | 01:34 |
| CrashandDie | yup | 01:34 |
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| Andy80 | hi all | 01:35 |
| b0unc3 | hi Andy80 | 01:35 |
| Andy80 | I'm trying Canola on n810 :) | 01:36 |
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| CrashandDie | hmm | 01:38 |
| Cptnodegard | does the OS2008 backup function back up GPE? | 01:38 |
| Cptnodegard | didnt get a definite answer earlier | 01:38 |
| CrashandDie | Andy80, canola rocks ! | 01:38 |
| CrashandDie | hmm... Anyone know how I can get the station code from weather.com for a non-us city ? | 01:39 |
| Andy80 | CrashandDie: yeah :) even if... the could have released it opensource :\ | 01:39 |
| CrashandDie | bleh | 01:39 |
| CrashandDie | who cares, it's pretty much one of the best apps around (from what I've seen) | 01:39 |
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| CrashandDie | johnx, any idea ? | 01:40 |
| Andy80 | what we relly miss know is a good application like GPE, but better... with a user interface like canola ;) | 01:40 |
| johnx | hmm, good question...and I think I must have done it at some point too... | 01:40 |
| johnx | CrashandDie, have you entered the city name into the search at the top of weather.com ? | 01:41 |
| johnx | it came up no problem for me | 01:41 |
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| |tbb| | is it possible to read a gzip and its content ascii characters without decompress it | 01:42 |
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| johnx | |tbb|, zcat | 01:43 |
| johnx | or zless or zmore | 01:43 |
| johnx | hmm, does zmore exist? | 01:43 |
| CrashandDie | johnx, perpignan france | 01:44 |
| CrashandDie | http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/local/FRXX0128?x=0&lswe=perpignan&lswa=WeatherLocalUndeclared&y=0 | 01:44 |
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| johnx | CrashandDie, FRXX0128 | 01:49 |
| johnx | look at the URL harder :D | 01:49 |
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| CrashandDie | johnx, I did | 01:51 |
| CrashandDie | johnx, doesn't work | 01:51 |
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| johnx | hmm...it "Works for me" (TM) | 01:51 |
| CrashandDie | hang on, lemme try again | 01:51 |
| CrashandDie | ok | 01:52 |
| CrashandDie | I can go hang myself | 01:52 |
| CrashandDie | must have mistyped or something, dunno | 01:52 |
| CrashandDie | sorry for that | 01:52 |
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| johnx | no problem :) | 01:52 |
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| johnx | the weather.com site is so obnoxious :/ | 01:55 |
| johnx | no wonder everyone uses another program to parse their data | 01:55 |
| CrashandDie | yeah lol | 01:55 |
| CrashandDie | hmm | 01:56 |
| CrashandDie | simple launcher doesn't want to do invisible background :/ | 01:56 |
| johnx | I don't think that works with 2008OS yet | 01:57 |
| CrashandDie | right | 01:57 |
| CrashandDie | funny thing is | 01:57 |
| CrashandDie | I got my n810 today | 01:57 |
| CrashandDie | and I'm like all happy | 01:57 |
| CrashandDie | so I go out, and do maybe 4 different stores, in order to get a charger | 01:58 |
| CrashandDie | and none of them had one | 01:58 |
| CrashandDie | and I'm like "OH COME ON" | 01:58 |
| CrashandDie | I go home, look at the adapter, read what's on it | 01:58 |
| CrashandDie | "110-240V 50-60Hz" | 01:58 |
| CrashandDie | oh well, that will do, just started cutting, soldering and galvanizing :) Tadaaa, working charger :D | 01:59 |
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| CrashandDie | anyway, I'm pretty damn happy with this tablet | 01:59 |
| johnx | don't they have cheap adapters that just adapt the shape of the plug? | 01:59 |
| CrashandDie | I dunno, I couldn't be bothered to look around too long | 02:00 |
| CrashandDie | I asked "do you have a nokia adapter, the new ones ? for this ?" "OOOH SHINY, WUT IS DAT ?" | 02:00 |
| johnx | well it's the same adapter is comes with lots of Nokia phones | 02:01 |
| CrashandDie | yeah I know | 02:01 |
| CrashandDie | but it seems someone went on a frenzy and decided I shouldn't have one, and bought them all | 02:01 |
| johnx | heh...that sucks | 02:01 |
| CrashandDie | well, like I said, I have my charger working, just, maybe doesn't look as good as what it did like about 8 hours ago :-° | 02:02 |
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| CrashandDie | last ciggie then I'm off | 02:08 |
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| CrashandDie | hey doc|home, long time no see | 02:10 |
| doc|home | hey CrashandDie :) | 02:11 |
| doc|home | have been here, just not saying much | 02:11 |
| CrashandDie | never saw you here | 02:11 |
| CrashandDie | just remember you from #gentoo a few years ago | 02:11 |
| doc|home | :) | 02:13 |
| doc|home | still using it? | 02:13 |
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| CrashandDie | gentoo ? | 02:13 |
| doc|home | yeah | 02:13 |
| CrashandDie | Yeah, still installed somewhere, but not really active anymore | 02:13 |
| * doc|home nods | 02:13 | |
| CrashandDie | I guess I just got tired of breaking my system every few months | 02:13 |
| doc|home | heh | 02:14 |
| * |tbb| think about what nokia should say: maemo connecting people ;) | 02:14 | |
| CrashandDie | it's all fun, for a while, you learn tons, and the community back then was pretty awesome | 02:15 |
| doc|home | yeah, a lot has changed since :/ | 02:15 |
| CrashandDie | doc|home, but then a few things happened, which I didn't like, so eventually, I just became a regular idle guy on #gentoo | 02:15 |
| doc|home | yeah | 02:15 |
| CrashandDie | like ops being asses and banning other ops | 02:15 |
| johnx | it always happens eventually :/ | 02:16 |
| doc|home | CrashandDie: when was this? | 02:16 |
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| CrashandDie | doc|home, dunno, couple of years now prolly | 02:16 |
| doc|home | hmmm, I've only seen that twice since I've been there | 02:16 |
| CrashandDie | doc|home, remember reisio? or something along those lines, I never got blackace's side of the story, because he'd just ignore me | 02:17 |
| doc|home | oh yeah, reisio is long gone, and iirc he has even been banned | 02:17 |
| doc|home | he changed | 02:17 |
| doc|home | went a bit... off | 02:17 |
| CrashandDie | but also stuff like removing xmms from portage, telling people to start using something else, it's not the gentoo spirit | 02:17 |
| doc|home | it is when there are vulnerabilities and it's no longer supported upstream :/ | 02:18 |
| CrashandDie | oh come on, vulnerabilities in xmms ? tsss | 02:18 |
| rm_you | i used to hang out in #gentoo like... 2 years ago | 02:18 |
| doc|home | there's only so much devs can do, and audacious was even more capable | 02:18 |
| rm_you | it was really cool back then :P | 02:18 |
| CrashandDie | When I started out in Gentoo, it was about user choices, no one was supposed to be there to interfere with what we wanted... And when they started fiddling with user preferences, that's when I sortof pulled the plug I guess | 02:19 |
| rm_you | I switched from gentoo to ubuntu though... I was having apt-withdrawls | 02:19 |
| doc|home | yeah, ubuntu is less work now. Gentoo used to be easier to look after :/ | 02:19 |
| rm_you | and i got tired of recompiling half my system every week, because I was OCD about emerge -uvD world | 02:19 |
| CrashandDie | I gotta give credit where credit is due, Gentoo really made my day, and even more than that, it thought me things no other distribution ever could | 02:20 |
| rm_you | truth | 02:20 |
| rm_you | I learned a LOT from running gentoo for a year :P | 02:20 |
| CrashandDie | I tried arch for a bit | 02:20 |
| CrashandDie | but that was like jumping back to Gentoo in 2002 | 02:20 |
| johnx | yeah, it's one of the only big distros that still encourage you to dig into it and hack | 02:20 |
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| CrashandDie | so I just reinstalled Gentoo, helped the community by getting the drivers for my soundcard to work, and had fun with the ipw3945 drivers, and then, eventually, I installed Solaris | 02:21 |
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| CrashandDie | after Solaris came Ubuntu, after Ubuntu came Debian, after Debian came... No wait, that's it | 02:22 |
| doc|home | ubuntu > debian | 02:22 |
| * doc|home hhides | 02:22 | |
| CrashandDie | lol | 02:22 |
| johnx | doc|home, ubuntu ~= debian | 02:22 |
| CrashandDie | for a home server ? No way | 02:22 |
| doc|home | johnx: underneath perhaps, but it's much better packaged than debian | 02:22 |
| |tbb| | could zcat read gzip files while the file is allready in use? | 02:23 |
| johnx | doc|home, hmm | 02:23 |
| johnx | |tbb|, yes | 02:23 |
| CrashandDie | |tbb|, yes, as long as no flock is used | 02:23 |
| johnx | ubuntu and debian just make different packaging decisions | 02:23 |
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| johnx | ubuntu is not right for servers because of that | 02:23 |
| |tbb| | i became an error like zcat: short read | 02:23 |
| CrashandDie | I guess ubuntu is a wee bit too bleeding edge | 02:24 |
| johnx | |tbb|, is the file being modified while you're trying to use zcat? | 02:24 |
| rm_you | heh, i love both debian and ubuntu | 02:24 |
| CrashandDie | great for a desktop, not so great when you just want to maintain a server easily | 02:24 |
| rm_you | i just use them for different things | 02:24 |
| |tbb| | yes it is | 02:24 |
| rm_you | I still use debian for anything server related, and ubuntu for desktops | 02:24 |
| rm_you | ubuntu is just a much better desktop-oriented distro | 02:25 |
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| * czr moved to ubuntu on most x86/x86-64 archs ages ago (servers) | 02:25 | |
| * johnx agrees with rm_you | 02:25 | |
| czr | ia-64 is slightly different | 02:25 |
| CrashandDie | yeah, ubuntu studio is awesome though | 02:25 |
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| johnx | |tbb|, what are you trying to accomplish in general? | 02:25 |
| CrashandDie | well, that's it for me | 02:26 |
| CrashandDie | I have this stupid class in a few hours | 02:26 |
| CrashandDie | man, why is it soooo hard for students to understand pointers in C ? | 02:26 |
| czr | bad teachers | 02:26 |
| rm_you | lol? :P | 02:27 |
| CrashandDie | heh | 02:27 |
| rm_you | *I* still barely understand pointers in C | 02:27 |
| rm_you | but i never had a class on it | 02:27 |
| rm_you | also, I do mostly Java and Python >_> | 02:27 |
| rm_you | though I guess at this point I pretty much get it... just not the advanced stuff you can do with them | 02:27 |
| rm_you | which there appears to be a LOT of | 02:27 |
| CrashandDie | well, a pointer is just a memory address, it points to a given position in the memory stack, after that, there's nothing more to understand | 02:28 |
| czr | a pointer is not _just_ a memory address | 02:28 |
| CrashandDie | well, it is | 02:28 |
| czr | ptr ++; | 02:28 |
| CrashandDie | ok | 02:28 |
| CrashandDie | point taken | 02:28 |
| czr | that's what I mean. | 02:28 |
| rm_you | lol | 02:29 |
| rm_you | see? *advanced* stuff | 02:29 |
| rm_you | mostly i just suck at allocating my own memory >_> | 02:29 |
| rm_you | malloc/calloc | 02:29 |
| rm_you | and knowing when i have to delete it | 02:30 |
| CrashandDie | that's not advanced... You increment the position of the pointer, so depending on the datatype pointed by the pointer, it will increment accordingly | 02:30 |
| CrashandDie | but yeah | 02:30 |
| CrashandDie | pointers are shitty, I'll admit | 02:30 |
| CrashandDie | c++/Java ftw, references ftw ! | 02:30 |
| czr | actually it depends on the type of the pointer, not the type of the data that it points to :-) | 02:30 |
| * czr hides under a rock called "sematics" | 02:30 | |
| rm_you | heh | 02:31 |
| rm_you | dunno, if i had ever taken a class that went over C stuff, then i would probably be ok with them | 02:31 |
| rm_you | i just... didn't | 02:31 |
| * czr nods | 02:31 | |
| czr | you could also just spend some proper time with The Book | 02:31 |
| CrashandDie | yet again, pointing to a set of data that doesn't match the datatype is pretty stupid if you don't know why you're doing it, and if you do, yeah, I'll admit, that starts to be quite advanced | 02:31 |
| czr | and hang around ##c asking silly questions.. | 02:32 |
| CrashandDie | or just googling and try to answer them | 02:32 |
| CrashandDie | which is probably where you learn most | 02:32 |
| czr | maybe with php | 02:32 |
| CrashandDie | dude | 02:32 |
| czr | or other copy&paste languages | 02:32 |
| CrashandDie | you frighten me | 02:32 |
| * czr evillaughters | 02:33 | |
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| czr | CrashandLie, I've had plenty of discussions with other people about the pedagogy of teaching "advanced" C. | 02:34 |
| johnx | heh...I remember my intro to java class when I would get null pointer exceptions. "I'm not using pointers Java! Stop lying!" | 02:35 |
| czr | so far there are two camps. one which tends to push the very abstract approach, the other one being the "bottom-up" thingy, where you'd talk about memory addresses and such | 02:35 |
| czr | I've yet to be convinced that either approach by themselves works the best.. | 02:35 |
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| czr | johnx, you didn't realize already at that point that java is just fud? :-) | 02:35 |
| czr | or was it crud.. /me can't remember. | 02:36 |
| johnx | I was young and naive (and the class was required) | 02:36 |
| czr | we've all been there.. | 02:36 |
| czr | the first two bits at least :-) | 02:36 |
| johnx | I loved scheme though | 02:36 |
| czr | I don't have time to play with other languages these days, too sad.. | 02:37 |
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| johnx | they taught scheme as the "intro to computer science" class | 02:37 |
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| johnx | one of those "you have to be cruel to be kind" things | 02:38 |
| czr | yeah, I can see that :-) | 02:38 |
| czr | but I guess the language doesn't matter much, as long as you don't end up spending too much time in non-important issues (like you end up in C) | 02:38 |
| johnx | right, and that's why scheme is great | 02:39 |
| * czr nods | 02:39 | |
| johnx | you just *couldn't* pass that class without understand recursion and iteration | 02:39 |
| czr | I'd probably use python if I'd be in that situation | 02:39 |
| johnx | or understanding why linked lists are slower than arrays | 02:40 |
| czr | whee | 02:40 |
| czr | training material went live at last | 02:40 |
| rm_you | yeah... my classes went: C++, Python, Scheme, ML, Java, Java, Java, Java | 02:41 |
| johnx | At least they got scheme and ML in there | 02:41 |
| rm_you | it was an elective >_> | 02:41 |
| czr | I think my first official torture language was LOGO | 02:41 |
| rm_you | i think... | 02:41 |
| czr | "see how the nice turtle does a stack space exceeded dump on the screen" | 02:41 |
| rm_you | rofl | 02:41 |
| rm_you | OH YEAH | 02:41 |
| czr | my teacher didn't appreciate my creativity too much | 02:42 |
| rm_you | I DID LOGO!!! when i was like 10! lol | 02:42 |
| * czr nods | 02:42 | |
| rm_you | and QBASIC >_> | 02:42 |
| johnx | man, I think they had me doing logo when I was like 8 O_o | 02:42 |
| rm_you | but i sucked too much back then to really know what i was doing | 02:42 |
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| czr | heh. we didn't have that officially. I think there was some "localized" version of TP that we used | 02:42 |
| johnx | yeah, it was more like a class in "copy the instructions" | 02:42 |
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| czr | or at least I used, although I threw out the localization pretty quickly away. | 02:43 |
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| czr | I guess they don't teach programming anymore at lower classes? | 02:43 |
| czr | given the futility? | 02:43 |
| rm_you | probably not much :/ | 02:43 |
| rm_you | my first class was in highschool | 02:43 |
| rm_you | which was alright | 02:43 |
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| czr | mine was in 7th grade I think, although I was writing programs back then anyway, so it didn't matter all that much (and that's the main reason why my LOGO teacher didn't like my creativity) | 02:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did some light programming on Apple IIs in elementary, then Java in high school. | 02:44 |
| CrashandLie | ok, i've got a last qusetion, then I'm really off | 02:45 |
| johnx | I taught myself TIBasic and programmed on a calculator then took C over the summer in high school | 02:45 |
| CrashandLie | is there an on-screen keyboard on the nokia n810 ? | 02:45 |
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| johnx | CrashandLie, yes | 02:46 |
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| CrashandLie | know how I get it to show up ? | 02:46 |
| johnx | no idea | 02:46 |
| CrashandLie | hmm | 02:46 |
| CrashandLie | ok | 02:46 |
| CrashandLie | doesn't matter | 02:46 |
| johnx | lend me your N810 and I'll figure it out. :D | 02:47 |
| CrashandLie | heh | 02:47 |
| CrashandLie | na | 02:47 |
| CrashandLie | don't think so, I'm not bored of it | 02:47 |
| CrashandLie | (yet) | 02:47 |
| CrashandLie | cheers, I'm out | 02:47 |
| CrashandLie | peace | 02:47 |
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| rm_you | lol yeah TIBasic :P | 02:47 |
| johnx | 26 variables ought to be enough for anyone! | 02:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did a lot of programming on my TI-83 Plus in middle school. | 02:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Weird viral transmission of software | 02:48 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, yup. Same calc I had in high school | 02:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | since you could only really share with link cables. | 02:48 |
| * czr is part of the "TI?" generation | 02:48 | |
| johnx | emulate functions by calling other programs with "well known" variables set | 02:48 |
| * czr hugs his old casio | 02:49 | |
| czr | you can program one variable evaluation in it | 02:49 |
| czr | and heck, it has sin, cos and tan. what else do you really need. | 02:49 |
| rm_you | heh | 02:49 |
| rm_you | Well, i remember the day I realized you could store stuff in the matrices, and basically have unlimited variables | 02:49 |
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| johnx | the "link" port was really just a serial port IIRC. I wanted soo much to get it talking to a modem | 02:50 |
| rm_you | it was like... OMG 2d arrays! :P | 02:50 |
| johnx | rm_you, I don't think I got that advanced (desparate?) | 02:50 |
| rm_you | lol | 02:50 |
| rm_you | i had a program that used like 60 variables >_> | 02:50 |
| czr | similar to the OMG I had with the casio. "Oh man, now I don't have to repeat the whole thing over and over again for 20 different values of X" | 02:50 |
| rm_you | it was an adventure game | 02:50 |
| rm_you | kinda like PIMP (if you remember that one) | 02:50 |
| * czr pimps rm_you's TI | 02:51 | |
| rm_you | lol | 02:51 |
| johnx | bling bling | 02:51 |
| czr | yeah. and 56" built in TFT that you can watch when you remove the cover to replace the battery! | 02:51 |
| penguinbait | anyone remember "liesure suit larry in the land of the lounge lizards" | 02:51 |
| czr | of course | 02:51 |
| penguinbait | haha | 02:51 |
| czr | ken sent me | 02:51 |
| czr | I should probably do something useful seeing that I'm not going to sleep anyway | 02:52 |
| rm_you | lol | 02:52 |
| rm_you | czr: you know much GTK? | 02:52 |
| czr | I know some | 02:53 |
| rm_you | did i already ask you about making a HildonControlbar fit into a GtkMenu and function correctly? :P | 02:53 |
| czr | mm. no? | 02:53 |
| rm_you | or at least, something that LOOKS visually like the GtkMenu | 02:53 |
| czr | haven't tried that one | 02:53 |
| czr | isn't HildonControlbar just a regular widget though? | 02:54 |
| rm_you | yeah | 02:54 |
| rm_you | it's basically a GtkScale | 02:54 |
| czr | so what's the problem? | 02:54 |
| czr | create a GtkMenuItem and add the widget to it? | 02:54 |
| rm_you | but if i force it into a GtkMenuItem, and then put it into a GtkMenu | 02:54 |
| rm_you | if you try to click on it to like... move the slider, it selects it and closes the menu | 02:54 |
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| czr | hmm | 02:55 |
| rm_you | >_> | 02:55 |
| czr | I guess that is what menus are supposed to do.. | 02:55 |
| rm_you | getting it to fit into the menu and actually display at all requires a GtkHBox, i think... | 02:55 |
| rm_you | right | 02:55 |
| rm_you | but like... you know how the backlight/volume applets work on the n8x0 | 02:55 |
| czr | yeah | 02:55 |
| rm_you | you click them, and theres the menu, but with a controlbar/volumebar at the top | 02:55 |
| rm_you | i need to duplicate that | 02:56 |
| czr | but I don't think they use a GtkMenu for it | 02:56 |
| czr | might be a regular dialog instead | 02:56 |
| czr | with fixed screen position. although I'm not sure.. | 02:56 |
| czr | have you asked on the mailing list? | 02:57 |
| rm_you | no | 02:57 |
| rm_you | what is the mailing list? | 02:57 |
| rm_you | I'm certainly not on it | 02:57 |
| czr | you might want to. just say that you want to duplicate what the existing thingy does | 02:57 |
| czr | maemo-developers | 02:57 |
| rm_you | i suppose that might work better than asking on IRC every day | 02:57 |
| czr | yes | 02:58 |
| czr | https://lists.maemo.org/mailman//listinfo/maemo-developers | 02:58 |
| czr | a lot of people read the list, but don't IRC so much | 02:58 |
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| czr | or at all. so you might get better coverage for your question | 02:59 |
| czr | just be specific enough with it, maybe someone will have a nice solution for you.. | 02:59 |
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| rm_you | is there like, a mailing list archive? | 03:05 |
| rm_you | that i can search through? | 03:05 |
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| johnx | yes | 03:05 |
| czr | the link I gave you should have an archive | 03:06 |
| czr | not sure about the search capability, I search locally | 03:06 |
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| johnx | gossamer-threads appears to have a searchable archive of it | 03:06 |
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| Lahiru | penguinbait, hi | 03:09 |
| rm_you | k | 03:09 |
| Lahiru | penguinbait, I need a help with installing KDE on n800 :) | 03:09 |
| Lahiru | penguinbait, I'm having a 1GB mmc... will tht enough to install KDE3.5.8? | 03:11 |
| penguinbait | nope | 03:11 |
| Lahiru | penguinbait, n800 on OS2008 | 03:11 |
| penguinbait | 1gb is not enough | 03:11 |
| penguinbait | sad huh :) | 03:12 |
| Lahiru | penguinbait, oh.. can I find another edition.. with lesser number of pkgs? | 03:12 |
| Lahiru | penguinbait, yes :( | 03:12 |
| penguinbait | nope | 03:12 |
| Lahiru | need to test KDE while I buy a 2GB card :) | 03:12 |
| penguinbait | even if you boot from mmc, you need like 1.3GB | 03:12 |
| Lahiru | well I hv another removable card | 03:13 |
| penguinbait | 2gb? | 03:13 |
| Lahiru | nop 120M :) | 03:14 |
| penguinbait | yeah, thats not helping you :) | 03:14 |
| penguinbait | is that the one that came with 810? | 03:14 |
| penguinbait | is that the one that came with 800 | 03:14 |
| penguinbait | I mean | 03:14 |
| Lahiru | n800, yes | 03:14 |
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| Lahiru | well then I shd buy a 2gb card today :) | 03:15 |
| Lahiru | penguinbait, just one thing.. whr shd we install kde mmc partition1 or 2? | 03:15 |
| penguinbait | dont matter | 03:16 |
| penguinbait | either | 03:16 |
| Lahiru | mm cnt we remove OS2008 and install pure kde? :) | 03:17 |
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| Lahiru | I'm confused.. why are we partitioning mmc | 03:18 |
| Lahiru | cnt we just install kde without doing partition? | 03:18 |
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| Lahiru | penguinbait, I'll buy a 2G and try :) thanks a lot | 03:24 |
| penguinbait | np | 03:24 |
| penguinbait | sorry I cant shrink it, I wish I could | 03:24 |
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| Lahiru | penguinbait, hehh it's fine.. thanks for making it :) | 03:25 |
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| Lahiru | penguinbait, one help please :) | 03:32 |
| penguinbait | whats up | 03:32 |
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| Lahiru | penguinbait, I'm currently having a 1 GB mmc as internal memory | 03:32 |
| penguinbait | ok | 03:32 |
| penguinbait | mmc2 | 03:32 |
| Lahiru | so is it ok to get another 1GB as an external mmc card | 03:32 |
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| penguinbait | no | 03:33 |
| Lahiru | then will I be able to install KDE | 03:33 |
| jott | you could try to squeez it in a squashfs | 03:33 |
| Lahiru | ah :( | 03:33 |
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| rm_you | you should just go ahead and buy a 4g or and 8g card now >_> | 03:33 |
| rm_you | i have 2x 4g | 03:33 |
| * jott just build a module because he also has a 1gb card and waits for his 4 gb card to arrive :) | 03:34 | |
| rm_you | but i will need to go buy 8g soon | 03:34 |
| penguinbait | there are 2 ways to install KDE, 1 requires a 1.5GB partition and the other requires 2gb | 03:34 |
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| penguinbait | I have 8gb in n800, but will have to buy microsdhc soon | 03:34 |
| Lahiru | can we use 4GB on n800? | 03:34 |
| Lahiru | I don;t think so | 03:34 |
| penguinbait | yes | 03:34 |
| penguinbait | I have 8gb | 03:35 |
| penguinbait | sdhc | 03:35 |
| Lahiru | mmc? | 03:35 |
| penguinbait | SD | 03:35 |
| Lahiru | ah | 03:35 |
| johnx | Lahiru, you can use any SDHC card | 03:35 |
| johnx | up to 16GB is tested | 03:35 |
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| Lahiru | great! I'll buy an SDHC then cool :) | 03:35 |
| penguinbait | I dont think any 32's are out yet are they? | 03:35 |
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| johnx | I dunno | 03:36 |
| johnx | there are 32GB CF cards, right? | 03:36 |
| rm_you | yeah but SD is behind | 03:36 |
| jott | penguinbait: how good can the kde build be compressed? just thinking if it's worth to try to put it in a squashfs to bring it <1gb | 03:37 |
| Lahiru | jott, yes pls hehe | 03:37 |
| rm_you | food, bbl | 03:37 |
| penguinbait | I would imagine alot | 03:37 |
| jott | so it could fit :) | 03:37 |
| penguinbait | I include everything, which is alot of small text type files | 03:38 |
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| penguinbait | I never used squashfs, I no nothing about it | 03:38 |
| jott | it's a compressed (read only) filesystem | 03:39 |
| jott | penguinbait: have you actually considered backporting debian or ubuntu kde packages so we could have a real split build with separate packages? | 03:40 |
| penguinbait | I am not a developer, people may not no how lucky they are to get what they got :) | 03:41 |
| * jott considers to do so | 03:42 | |
| jott | what where the biggest pitfalls you had when just compiling? | 03:42 |
| johnx | jott, how much have you dug into packaging for 2008OS? | 03:43 |
| johnx | it's missing *lots* of stuff when compared to a regular debian system | 03:43 |
| penguinbait | from what developer tell me is its a linker problem | 03:44 |
| penguinbait | but basically when compiling it cant find certain libs it already compiled | 03:44 |
| johnx | sometimes I think it might be easier to make the hardware dependent and GUI stuff run on a more debian-like system then backporting debian packages onto 2008OS | 03:44 |
| jott | johnx: well just started to do some basic infrastructure building of missing debian bootstrap stuff | 03:44 |
| johnx | great! | 03:44 |
| johnx | I think we both had the same idea! and you already started. :D | 03:45 |
| penguinbait | So I use intuition and point it where I think they are | 03:45 |
| Lahiru | can somebody help me to revert my 1G card pls :) | 03:46 |
| Lahiru | I partitioned it in hoping to install kde | 03:46 |
| Lahiru | ;) | 03:46 |
| jott | johnx: actually i consider patching the sbuild system (there was once a patch for scratchbox support but this is obsolete) | 03:47 |
| penguinbait | Lahiru, are trying to install from deb or boot from SD/mmc | 03:47 |
| penguinbait | ? | 03:47 |
| johnx | Lahiru, you want one big FAT16 partition back? | 03:47 |
| jott | i guess with a running sbuild one could build quite everything without too much of a hassle.. | 03:48 |
| johnx | jott, especially since the debian armel port works so well | 03:48 |
| Lahiru | johnx, yes | 03:48 |
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| Lahiru | penguinbait, was trying to follow the instructions on the forum :) | 03:48 |
| johnx | some N800 packages will probably need to be repacked from files on the device | 03:49 |
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| penguinbait | which instructions? | 03:49 |
| penguinbait | with debs, or not | 03:49 |
| Lahiru | penguinbait, the link on your hacking site :) | 03:49 |
| penguinbait | ok | 03:50 |
| penguinbait | there is a new way | 03:50 |
| penguinbait | easier | 03:50 |
| penguinbait | no partitioning | 03:50 |
| Lahiru | ahh please tell me | 03:50 |
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| penguinbait | 1 sec | 03:50 |
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| Lahiru | a link | 03:50 |
| Lahiru | penguinbait, Thanks | 03:50 |
| penguinbait | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14680&highlight=KDE | 03:51 |
| penguinbait | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14680 | 03:51 |
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| Lahiru | penguinbait, thanks | 03:51 |
| jott | johnx: yes.. well as i have a n810 now my motivation increased by an infinite number to deal with this ;) | 03:51 |
| penguinbait | np | 03:51 |
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| johnx | I'm pretty motivated too | 03:52 |
| johnx | there is so much software in debian ARMEL that it's shame to duplicate efforts | 03:52 |
| pupnik | johnx: whatever you can do to help bridge to debian ARMEL will be appreciated | 03:53 |
| johnx | heh...don't look at me | 03:53 |
| hachi | modest refuses to start up for me :\ | 03:53 |
| johnx | I have no idea if I'll really get anywhere with this | 03:54 |
| jott | i guess one has to fight with some little scratchbox limitations.. | 03:54 |
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| jott | i failed to build eperl for example as it tries to link against x86 perl libs :) | 03:54 |
| johnx | jott, I was almost thinking about running a buildd in a qemu armel debian chroot | 03:55 |
| johnx | I would sacrifice a lot of compiling power but gain a lot of "just works" | 03:55 |
| jott | johnx: yeah indeed.. | 03:55 |
| Lahiru | johnx, can I get tht 1gb space back? | 03:56 |
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| Lahiru | johnx, I hv partitioned it :) | 03:56 |
| jott | well maybe it's worth a try to bootstrap chinook into a debian qemu chroot and fix the bootstrap that it matches debians needs... | 03:57 |
| johnx | Lahiru, you want it to be just like it was when you got it, basically? | 03:57 |
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| Lahiru | johnx, yes | 03:58 |
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| johnx | What program did you use to partition it? | 03:59 |
| Lahiru | sfdisk | 03:59 |
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| jott | Lahiru: have you run mkfs.vfat on the device? or is the partition table still broken? | 04:00 |
| Lahiru | I used # mkdosfs /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 04:03 |
| Lahiru | and # mke2fs /dev/mmcblk0p2 | 04:03 |
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| johnx | jott, he partitioned it successfully and he wants it back to default one parition | 04:04 |
| johnx | jeez, I thought fdisk was cryptic enough ... then I started reading the man for sfdisk | 04:04 |
| johnx | Lahiru, do you run Linux or Windows on your desktop? Do you have a card reader for it? | 04:05 |
| Lahiru | shall I sfdisk it and just press enter | 04:05 |
| Lahiru | Linux | 04:05 |
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| Lahiru | I'll try using it | 04:06 |
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| johnx | Lahiru, yes, start and enter should do it | 04:08 |
| johnx | I haven't used sfdisk before | 04:08 |
| johnx | I always preferred cfdisk | 04:08 |
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| rm_you | yes, cfdisk is a lifesaver | 04:25 |
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| jott | penguinbait: the contents of KDE358.tar.bz2 is 322mb in a squashfs container. | 04:33 |
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| penguinbait | wow | 04:33 |
| penguinbait | how would it run though | 04:33 |
| penguinbait | is that just like a file image? | 04:34 |
| jott | you can just mount it | 04:34 |
| Lahiru | fixed :) | 04:34 |
| jott | (given you have the squashfs.ko loaded) | 04:34 |
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| penguinbait | thats what I am doing with ext2 local.img on /media/mmc1 or 2 | 04:34 |
| hachi | ugh, now pidgin won't even let me add an account | 04:34 |
| johnx | wow, maybe I'll try out KDE then :D | 04:34 |
| jott | yeah .. so using squashfs instead of ext2 in that place would safe alot of memory (with some small performance impact) | 04:35 |
| penguinbait | ok, so all I would have to replace is the first deb | 04:35 |
| penguinbait | I could do that quickly | 04:35 |
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| penguinbait | I need some instructions for how to mount squashfs? | 04:36 |
| Lahiru | jott, could u please tell me how can I use squashfs | 04:36 |
| penguinbait | mount -t squashfs | 04:36 |
| * Andy80 doesn't like kde :p (flaaaaameeee :D) | 04:36 | |
| Lahiru | great! after penguinbait I ll be able to install kde on my 1gb :) | 04:36 |
| jott | penguinbait: you can create a squashfs container quite easily (even without kernel support) - just (install and) run mksquashfs dir/ containerfile | 04:37 |
| johnx | Andy80, I'm not a big KDE fan but "free and takes 322MB" is a nice price point :P | 04:37 |
| penguinbait | well I need the squashfs.ko to mount it right | 04:37 |
| penguinbait | I would put it all in a deb | 04:37 |
| penguinbait | I have a small deb to create a ext2 fs, its just changing that one | 04:38 |
| jott | http://sse2.net/maemo/squashfs.ko | 04:38 |
| hachi | unable to update pidgin-exprefs, update file is corrupted | 04:38 |
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| rm_you | ooo | 04:38 |
| jott | thats for Linux Nokia-N810-50-2 2.6.21-omap1 .. | 04:38 |
| Andy80 | johnx: the great thing is that user has the possibility to choose ;) | 04:38 |
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| jott | but i guess it should work on all maemo 2.6.21-omap1 | 04:38 |
| penguinbait | my 2008os is same kernel | 04:39 |
| penguinbait | 50-2 | 04:39 |
| rm_you | i'll try KDE too at ~400mb :P | 04:39 |
| penguinbait | and os version | 04:39 |
| rm_you | i hate it on PC, but some of the apps could come in handy :) | 04:39 |
| penguinbait | where to get the tools? | 04:40 |
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| jott | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/kernel_guide_for_maemo.html <- otherwise this guide gives a short intro on how to build kernel modules.. | 04:40 |
| jott | penguinbait: squashfs.sf.net | 04:40 |
| penguinbait | I really wonder how much slower this will make things | 04:41 |
| jott | or distro provided.. | 04:41 |
| penguinbait | Its not like speed can be spared on KDE | 04:41 |
| penguinbait | ? | 04:41 |
| jott | penguinbait: a bit on load time..but no runtime impact | 04:41 |
| penguinbait | konq already take 6-10 secs to load | 04:41 |
| penguinbait | I guess I can at least see how it runs | 04:42 |
| jott | well.. we'll never know if we don' try ;) | 04:42 |
| penguinbait | yup | 04:42 |
| penguinbait | ok, I got to go finsh a post on ITT, it was freaking long, the off to squash, I'll let you know how it goes | 04:43 |
| jott | i wonder if you tried to prelink the kde stuff.. this should give an extra boost on load time | 04:44 |
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| penguinbait | ok squashfs question? | 05:21 |
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| jott | penguinbait: .. :) | 05:24 |
| penguinbait | mount -t squashfs image /mnt -o loop | 05:24 |
| penguinbait | is that ext2 image? | 05:24 |
| jott | simply "mount -o loop image /mnt" should work.. | 05:25 |
| penguinbait | can I squash a file local.img which is ext2 fs mounte on /usr/local | 05:25 |
| jott | with an squashfs "image" | 05:25 |
| penguinbait | local sits on fat | 05:25 |
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| penguinbait | how do I create a squash image? | 05:26 |
| jott | well i guess there is no need for ext2 in that case.. (and probably it would also degrade compression) | 05:26 |
| penguinbait | just create 1.4gb files witdd then compress? | 05:26 |
| jott | mksquashfs src/ dest.squashfs | 05:26 |
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| jott | no.. you can directly compress the dir.. (like tar/zip) | 05:27 |
| jott | the resulting image is "read only" then.. | 05:27 |
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| penguinbait | my problem is the dir is FAT | 05:28 |
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| penguinbait | so can I take a dir on a FAT FS and squash it, and then untar into it? | 05:28 |
| penguinbait | mkdir /media/mmc1/squashdir | 05:29 |
| jott | uhm.. i guess the sane approach would be to compress the actual kde dir (instead of dumping it to a ext2 loopback, just compress the content of the ext2 with squashfs).. | 05:29 |
| jott | you would get an single file that can be stored on fat or what ever.. | 05:30 |
| penguinbait | ok, but its readonly? | 05:30 |
| jott | yes | 05:30 |
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| penguinbait | I would have to redo all my debs, its not as easy as I thought | 05:31 |
| jott | the compression tool "mksquashfs" just compresses the data (aka gzip and some structural information) into a read-only container | 05:31 |
| jott | hmm.. | 05:31 |
| jott | haven't looked at what you done actually :p | 05:31 |
| penguinbait | I have three debs, the first one creates via dd a 1.3GB ext2 fs, and mounts it on usr/local | 05:32 |
| penguinbait | it sits /media/mmc1/local.img | 05:32 |
| penguinbait | I was hoping to compress local.img, then untar into it using the other two debs. | 05:32 |
| penguinbait | I already have made | 05:33 |
| penguinbait | and working :) | 05:33 |
| penguinbait | mostly :) | 05:33 |
| penguinbait | if you can read anyway | 05:33 |
| jott | what do the other debs do? | 05:33 |
| penguinbait | 1 untars the main KDE files, in /usr /etc /usr/local | 05:34 |
| penguinbait | and 1 add about 20mb of stuff to start KDE up, that way I could update the smaller deb and not all of KDE, its a smaller download | 05:35 |
| jott | ..i see.. | 05:35 |
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| jott | ok.. | 05:37 |
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| jott | basically you would just make a squashfs from /usr/local and mount afterwards.. | 05:37 |
| penguinbait | I am not done with this, I have some ideas it just might take me a little more time | 05:37 |
| jott | and strip all /usr/local stuff from the sup package.. | 05:38 |
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| penguinbait | I am thinking of mabe I could do a couple of dirs in /usr/local but not all, do like all of share, but not libs and bin? | 05:39 |
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| penguinbait | then the squash images could be put into the KDE tarball? | 05:39 |
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| jott | uff.. well this sounds really messy - but it should somehow work.. :) | 05:41 |
| penguinbait | would having multiple squashes mounted be a problem? | 05:41 |
| jott | no.. shouldn't be a problem | 05:41 |
| jott | (as long as you will not exceed loop0 handlers i suppose ;) | 05:41 |
| jott | loopX | 05:41 |
| penguinbait | right | 05:41 |
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| jott | but why not stuff all of the local stuff into a big squash file? | 05:42 |
| jott | something like: mksquashfs /usr/local kdelocal.squashfs && rm -rf /usr/local/* && mount -o loop kdelocal.squashfs /usr/local | 05:43 |
| penguinbait | I need to try it first to tes speed,but also would want to be able to update /usr/local possibly | 05:43 |
| jott | mh yeah ro is a disandvantage.. | 05:44 |
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| johnx | a unionfs might work really well here...but it would involve some work | 05:44 |
| penguinbait | I want to put as little as possible in flash | 05:44 |
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| penguinbait | Plus if I want to add and kde apps I need to write out there also | 05:45 |
| jott | johnx: yeah to some degree (as it's actually not really necessary) | 05:45 |
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| johnx | it's more complexity up front, but it nicely deals with updating in place | 05:46 |
| jott | there is also so somewhat "stupid" approach to just symlink everything from some mountpoint to the flash.. | 05:47 |
| jott | but probably a sane unionfs setup would be a good option too.. | 05:47 |
| johnx | I'd steer away from symlink hell | 05:48 |
| jott | or just one big ro dir with everything you need in it.. not flexible but kiss :) | 05:48 |
| johnx | ask the zaurus users how fun it was :P | 05:48 |
| * jott knows this ;) | 05:48 | |
| penguinbait | Thats what I did | 05:48 |
| jott | (that's where the "stupid" derived from ;-) | 05:48 |
| penguinbait | simple is not always tiny :) | 05:48 |
| johnx | either way, I just mention unionfs for completeness | 05:48 |
| jott | yeah.. quite a few livecd use unionfs ... | 05:49 |
| johnx | however there is a certain sweet spot in between tiny-massive and simple-hard | 05:49 |
| penguinbait | to be fair, its the same size on a desktop, its not like I made it bigger :) | 05:50 |
| jott | penguinbait: yeah well you could strip alot of stuff and make a "lightweight" version ;) | 05:50 |
| johnx | jott, that smacks of effort | 05:51 |
| penguinbait | I want functional, for everyone, so I provide everything? | 05:51 |
| johnx | and it's a vicious cycle | 05:51 |
| johnx | every time upstream updates you have to do lots more work | 05:51 |
| penguinbait | you can always rip out what you dont want | 05:51 |
| penguinbait | I am not a developer, I am winging it ;) | 05:52 |
| johnx | penguinbait, welcome to the club | 05:52 |
| jott | indeed.. getting sbuild or alike running and do a full (debian/ubuntu derived) splitbuild would be imho the best thing to do ;p | 05:52 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 05:52 |
| johnx | jott, I'm trying to drag in maemo-sdk stuff into a debian armel chroot | 05:52 |
| penguinbait | I am complete advocat of full OS done right, not by me :) | 05:52 |
| johnx | jott, we'll see how well this works | 05:52 |
| penguinbait | I am just working with what I got :) | 05:53 |
| pupnik | penguinbait, that's more of a umpc-linux approach | 05:55 |
| penguinbait | isn't that what I have? | 05:56 |
| pupnik | yes, if you want | 05:56 |
| pupnik | but for a consumer device, a limited OS makes sense too | 05:56 |
| pupnik | less unpredictable complications | 05:56 |
| penguinbait | absolutely | 05:56 |
| penguinbait | as he said KISS | 05:57 |
| penguinbait | but getting a UMPC for $200, $400 pretty good deals | 05:57 |
| pupnik | but your kde work is great | 05:57 |
| pupnik | yep | 05:57 |
| johnx | pupnik, There are trade offs. pulling in the full upstream software is easy for devs but may be complicated for users (and takes up lots of space) | 05:58 |
| penguinbait | did you see the debs? | 05:58 |
| johnx | meanwhile, packing everything simple and small makes it nice for the users but really hard for devs | 05:58 |
| penguinbait | space is cheap, for large gain | 05:58 |
| pupnik | i'm sorry i don't use the KDE, but i am a moral supporter of your work | 05:58 |
| penguinbait | printing webpages, emails, | 05:58 |
| penguinbait | :) | 05:58 |
| pupnik | that's pretty serious advantage - the printing | 05:59 |
| jott | pupnik: hey, johnx just made a theoretical statement :) | 05:59 |
| penguinbait | Are you an IBM'er or just did some time there? | 05:59 |
| pupnik | who? | 05:59 |
| penguinbait | you | 05:59 |
| pupnik | no | 06:00 |
| pupnik | (using logical OR) | 06:00 |
| penguinbait | sorry wrong website | 06:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 06:01 |
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| penguinbait | you were sitting by the fire drinking a beer? | 06:01 |
| penguinbait | or was that not you? | 06:01 |
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| penguinbait | memory is failing me | 06:02 |
| pupnik | ? :) yes i have done that many times. dunno who you are thinking of | 06:02 |
| penguinbait | http://pupnik.de/photos/Arnim_Roman_Tower_by_Limes_w_Psion_Netbook_sm.html | 06:02 |
| pupnik | oh yeah | 06:02 |
| penguinbait | what was up with tornado night? | 06:02 |
| penguinbait | looks crazy | 06:03 |
| pupnik | lots of beer :P | 06:03 |
| penguinbait | hehehe | 06:03 |
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| pupnik | hey it would be fun if the chess program allowed online gaming | 06:05 |
| pupnik | speaking of online gaming | 06:06 |
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| pupnik | http://pupnik.de/Daimonin_Widget1.jpg | 06:07 |
| pupnik | no idea when it'll be finished though | 06:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Never, if you keep dicking around in here. :P | 06:08 |
| pupnik | too slow on the 770 | 06:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Your N810 ever ship? | 06:09 |
| pupnik | yeah two days ago | 06:09 |
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| penguinbait | We have decided to extend validity period of N810 maemo device program, new expiration date is 30.06.2008. | 06:11 |
| penguinbait | that cant be good | 06:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N900 will be out by the time your get your N810, penguinbait. ;) | 06:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did they really send that e-mail to US residents? | 06:12 |
| penguinbait | 1020 | 06:13 |
| penguinbait | N1392 | 06:13 |
| penguinbait | bait and switch | 06:13 |
| penguinbait | I saw that online, on ITT | 06:14 |
| jott | GeneralAntilles: this mail was sent to all participants i suppose (as i got it too) | 06:14 |
| penguinbait | you mean what I just pasted? | 06:15 |
| jott | yes.. | 06:15 |
| penguinbait | hmm, checking mail now | 06:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody needs to slap some resources and organization into Nokia. | 06:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's just been one mess after another. | 06:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | These are the people they expect peddle their wares. | 06:17 |
| jott | but in the end everybody will be happy (hopefully :) | 06:18 |
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| jott | at least i'm happy now, as i recieved my devices yesterday :) | 06:20 |
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| pupnik | deviceS? | 06:20 |
| jott | ups.. | 06:20 |
| jott | device :) | 06:20 |
| rm_you | heh | 06:20 |
| * jott should try if the discount code works a second time *gg* | 06:22 | |
| rm_you | lol | 06:22 |
| rm_you | hrm ok so the backlight thing checks device code now so it wont allow screen blanking on the n800 :) | 06:23 |
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| rm_you | i posted to the mailing list about my GtkMenu issues... we'll see how that goes. It may be a couple days before I see a response, if at all :/ | 06:23 |
| rm_you | and the code is available if anyone wants it now... http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight-0.3-src.tar.gz | 06:24 |
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| rm_you | i spent about 20 minutes cleaning it and commenting it... and then proceeded to tar over it by swapping the argument order :P so i did it again >_> | 06:24 |
| jott | rm_you: you need a patched kernel for this, right? | 06:24 |
| rm_you | yes | 06:24 |
| rm_you | at the moment | 06:24 |
| pupnik | http://www.worth1000.com/entries/119500/119632GLNK_w.jpg <<< fox viewers (humor) | 06:25 |
| rm_you | i'm trying to figure out how to reverse engineer dsmetest as fanoush suggested... but i can only run it from within the /mnt/initfs/ chroot, and there isn't an strace available in there!! :( | 06:25 |
| jott | we'll i already build my first kernel module so compiling the whole kernel would be the logical next step ;) | 06:25 |
| rm_you | heh, fanoush's kernel drops right in nicely | 06:25 |
| rm_you | http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ | 06:26 |
| rm_you | so... any thoughts on that? I can only run dsmetest INSIDE the chroot, and i can only run strace OUTSIDE the chroot >_> | 06:26 |
| dragorn | http://www.linuxgames.com/archives/9914 | 06:28 |
| dragorn | so who wants to take it on? :) | 06:28 |
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| penguinbait | yup got the freaking email, did only USA get the email? | 06:28 |
| jott | penguinbait: no.. as i said i also got it (germany) | 06:28 |
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| penguinbait | ah | 06:29 |
| rm_you | dragorn: that would be sweet | 06:30 |
| rm_you | i wonder how hard it would be to compile | 06:30 |
| dragorn | Taking a look | 06:30 |
| dragorn | oh dear. | 06:30 |
| dragorn | python, tcl, and tk | 06:30 |
| penguinbait | I really would have bought one by now if I was not promised two for free, I guess I am just like a kid waiting for christmas, and I am not sure what the date it? | 06:31 |
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| rm_you | wait, is it python??? | 06:31 |
| rm_you | heh | 06:31 |
| dragorn | Unix porting, optimization and TCL/Tk user interface design.... | 06:31 |
| dragorn | so it would be nontrivial | 06:31 |
| johnx | rm_you, it's TCL/TK | 06:32 |
| rm_you | unix porting?? | 06:32 |
| rm_you | :/ | 06:32 |
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| johnx | dragorn, it looks like it already runs on OLPC | 06:32 |
| dragorn | johnx: yes, a different version | 06:32 |
| jott | i never thought they really would release it under gpl :) | 06:32 |
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| johnx | right, but the source code for that is avaiable, yes? | 06:32 |
| dragorn | the olpc one? not as far as I see in the article I pasted | 06:33 |
| dragorn | "The OLPC has an officially sanctioned and QA?ed version of SimCity that is actually called SimCity. EA wanted to have the right to approve and QA anything that was shipped with the trademarked name SimCity." | 06:33 |
| rm_you | i thought that was it | 06:33 |
| johnx | right, but would the OLPC guys even touch it if it was closed? | 06:33 |
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| johnx | http://www.olpcnews.com/content/games/simcity_on_the_olpc_xo.html | 06:35 |
| Luria | is there a config file for scratchbox that will 1) keep the target on armel on startup and 2)export DISPLAY=:2 ? | 06:35 |
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| dragorn | well it kind of runs. not terribly well. Like the main map doesn't render. | 06:35 |
| johnx | Luria, mine always remembers the last system I was on | 06:36 |
| Luria | huh, mine didnt :-/ | 06:36 |
| johnx | and you can export DISPLAY=:2 in your .bashrc inside scratchbox | 06:36 |
| rm_you | Luria: mine remembers too :/ | 06:36 |
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| Luria | all right, well i'll quit and startup | 06:36 |
| rm_you | dragorn: you get it to run? mine is having issues on compile | 06:37 |
| Luria | ta | 06:37 |
| dragorn | rm_you: it runs. Just not playably. | 06:37 |
| rm_you | dragorn: :( | 06:37 |
| jott | maybe s/micropolis/SimCity/g will make it work ;> | 06:38 |
| rm_you | lol | 06:38 |
| jott | (i bet they did it the otherway around ;-) | 06:38 |
| dragorn | wish I had the time to think about porting it | 06:39 |
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| jott | dragorn: what yacc do you have? mine seems to fail on build | 06:40 |
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| dragorn | whatever the latest is... | 06:41 |
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| dragorn | 1.9.1 | 06:41 |
| zetheroo | does the N800 have 3G cpabilities? | 06:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 06:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Do you see a SIM card slot? :P | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just get yourself a good phone to tether to. | 06:42 |
| dragorn | johnx: you're right, btw, this is somehow tied to the olpc build | 06:42 |
| zetheroo | oh ... I thought 3G is for Internet | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | 3G is like EDGE and GPRS | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's for cellular data. | 06:42 |
| rm_you | well, *simply* put... "it is for the internet" ... via cell | 06:43 |
| zetheroo | oh ok | 06:43 |
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| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: what phone do you have? i'm tempted by the n95 | 06:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Samsung SGH-A717 | 06:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Cheap and small | 06:44 |
| rm_you | or maybe i will wait until Android devices come out to upgrade my phone | 06:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | N95 seems like overkill for a tethering phone. | 06:45 |
| rm_you | just a year or two on that, eh? | 06:45 |
| rm_you | lol so? i need a phone, too :P | 06:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then get something small and cheap. :P | 06:45 |
| rm_you | well, my *current* phone would tether fine... | 06:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not huge and $600 | 06:45 |
| rm_you | motorola v360 | 06:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Motos suck | 06:46 |
| rm_you | i love mine <_< | 06:46 |
| rm_you | what makes you say that they suck> | 06:46 |
| rm_you | ? | 06:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Because they do. :P | 06:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | I had some decent ones when I was with Nextel | 06:46 |
| rm_you | my v360 is the best phone i've ever had >_> | 06:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | my parents have had a string of T-Mobile and AT&T Motos and they were all bad. | 06:47 |
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| * qnr-lt say's their PS connectors suck, at least... likes Motorola transceivers and Motorola chips though | 06:47 | |
| rm_you | i use TMobile | 06:47 |
| qnr-lt | er. says | 06:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Better change if you want 3g | 06:47 |
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| rm_you | PS connectors? | 06:47 |
| rm_you | >_> | 06:47 |
| qnr-lt | connectors for thier power supplies | 06:47 |
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| rm_you | ... | 06:48 |
| rm_you | ah | 06:48 |
| qnr-lt | too shallow, tends to deform shape and the the connectors don't come in contact after a while | 06:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like my Samsung | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | everybody I know likes their Samsungs. | 06:49 |
| rm_you | would that explain why my phone reboots when i bump it too hard? :P | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokias are good, too. | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just prefer clamshells. | 06:49 |
| rm_you | ... cause it does | 06:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and it's the best phone you've ever had? <_< | 06:49 |
| rm_you | yes | 06:49 |
| rm_you | i hated my samsung | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | You've had some pretty terrible phones. | 06:49 |
| rm_you | mostly the software | 06:49 |
| rm_you | the moto software is awesome | 06:49 |
| dragorn | my moto crashed all the time | 06:50 |
| rm_you | it has like, zero limitations on what it lets me do | 06:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | I kinda experienced exactly the opposite. | 06:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Moto software drives me nuts. | 06:50 |
| dragorn | rm_you: you must not have verizon :P | 06:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Really, though, I only use my phone as a phone (well, and a modem). | 06:50 |
| rm_you | dragorn: tmobile :P they are very non-interference | 06:50 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: what does your data plan cost you? | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | $20/mo | 06:51 |
| rm_you | unlimited? | 06:51 |
| dragorn | however, up where I am, they're useless | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | it's not technically a tethering plan | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | but I've had it since last spring and haven't had any problems. | 06:51 |
| rm_you | unlimited? | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Supposedly | 06:51 |
| rm_you | >_> | 06:51 |
| rm_you | what plan *is* it? | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Of course that's not actually true | 06:51 |
| * qnr-lt only turns on the phone every 90 days to find out his phone number so he can add more airtime :) | 06:51 | |
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| rm_you | who's your carrier? | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | MediaMAX 200 is what Cingular called it. | 06:51 |
| rm_you | hrm | 06:52 |
| rm_you | i need to call tmobile and find out how much a data plan would cost | 06:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | They only offer EDGE | 06:52 |
| johnx | Is there really no .deb for xserver-xomap? | 06:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | which is sloooow | 06:52 |
| rm_you | <_< | 06:52 |
| rm_you | switching carriers would be... annoying | 06:52 |
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| rm_you | i wonder if i'm still on contract | 06:53 |
| johnx | grrr...I should reflash and switch to running root on SD | 06:55 |
| johnx | I really wish it was actually legal for someone to just put up a pristine filesystem image from right after a reflash+firstboot | 06:55 |
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| Vulc|NotHere | [23:55:44] <johnx> I really wish it was actually legal for someone to just put up a pristine filesystem image from right after a reflash+firstboot -- to unlock a phone from a carrier? I think its allowed now | 06:58 |
| Vulc|NotHere | there was a bill passed awhile ago | 06:58 |
| johnx | Vulc|NotHere, sorry I was actually talking about an N800 | 06:58 |
| Vulc|NotHere | Ah, sorry. I am tired, and was looking up and reading about cellphones before that | 06:59 |
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| Vulc|NotHere | I also completely misread what you said | 06:59 |
| johnx | no problem...I kind of just wedged it into a pre-existing conversation without introduction :) | 06:59 |
| dospod | soooo wats every1 talking bout | 07:00 |
| johnx | They're talking about phones | 07:00 |
| johnx | I'm talking about running the root fs of my N800 off of an SD card instead of the builtin flash | 07:01 |
| johnx | ...so I can start trying to hack a proper debian system up | 07:01 |
| johnx | without hosing my device when I mess up the dependencies | 07:01 |
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| dospod | i wanna see someone put in a freebsd kernel on the n800 with maemo | 07:02 |
| johnx | is there an arm port of freebsd? | 07:02 |
| dospod | maybe | 07:02 |
| dospod | if not netbsd might have one | 07:03 |
| johnx | they do | 07:03 |
| johnx | as well as openbsd | 07:03 |
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| johnx | I doubt they have all the device drivers they need to be actually useful though | 07:03 |
| dospod | i think having bash as default would be helpful also | 07:04 |
| johnx | so, get your device booting off of mmc/sd and test it :) | 07:04 |
| dospod | i might be adventurous sunday to do it | 07:05 |
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| dospod | anybody else agree havving maemo, moblin, and ubuntu mobile diffrent is dumb | 07:07 |
| dospod | they all run hildon, and say app compatibility between them is good | 07:07 |
| Luria | whats moblin? | 07:08 |
| johnx | maemo is cut down to fit in 130MB of flash, moblin is intel's official thing for bigger/faster systems | 07:08 |
| dospod | intels umpc platform | 07:08 |
| johnx | and ubuntu mobile is intel's thing | 07:08 |
| johnx | I think there is too much confict of interest to make it work well | 07:09 |
| dospod | i still think they should merge and just have diffrent releases for diffrent products | 07:09 |
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| johnx | it might be nice, but I'm sure it will never happen | 07:10 |
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| johnx | gah...I mispoke a couple lines up | 07:11 |
| Luria | ah | 07:11 |
| johnx | moblin is of course intel's thing...not ubuntu mobile | 07:11 |
| Luria | right, i understood | 07:11 |
| dospod | i think i feel too restricted with just one os choice for my tablet | 07:11 |
| Luria | yeah | 07:11 |
| Luria | wheres bsd for IT | 07:11 |
| dospod | and the ui restrictment kinda kills me | 07:12 |
| Luria | or armel pen windows | 07:12 |
| Luria | that would rock. | 07:12 |
| dospod | would be cool to have a choice of ui layout | 07:12 |
| johnx | wishes aside...on a realistic note debian has a great armel port | 07:12 |
| dospod | i thought maemo was debian based | 07:13 |
| johnx | it is, but it's a really hacked down debian | 07:13 |
| johnx | it uses busybox instead of the normal GNU stuff and normal debian armel packages probably won't install | 07:13 |
| dospod | i guesd im used to more freedom with linux | 07:13 |
| johnx | you *do* have freedom...you just have to do a little work | 07:14 |
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| johnx | right now, even as we speak I'm trying to get the maemo stuff to run in a full debian system | 07:14 |
| dospod | its alot for newbies | 07:14 |
| johnx | freedom isn't free | 07:14 |
| dospod | i like the one window idea for hildon | 07:15 |
| johnx | the "freedom" in Linux doesn't mean getting everything handed to you on a silver platter, it means that you can change things if you want to | 07:15 |
| dospod | i just dont like the app menu placement at times | 07:15 |
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| johnx | well, maemo is pretty much a fixed-layout sort of thing | 07:17 |
| jott | johnx: please keep me posted, i'm also very interested in a debian compatible build setup - i'll do some more work in getting a debian comaptible setup within scratchbox so we'll see if both approaches will be any good :) -- but i'm afk now | 07:17 |
| dospod | but i could do something if i wanted | 07:17 |
| johnx | jott, alright | 07:18 |
| rm_you | johnx: i would work on that too if i had the first idea how to go about it | 07:19 |
| rm_you | i think you have way more experience in that field, so i'll just leave you to it | 07:19 |
| johnx | heh | 07:19 |
| rm_you | but i'll be somewhat interested as well | 07:19 |
| rm_you | *seeing as how you already did it for your zaurus >_> | 07:20 |
| johnx | on the zaurus it was comparitively easy | 07:20 |
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| johnx | right now I'm going to get my N800 to boot from SD, make a fresh copy of the 2008OS and at least get a debian chroot going | 07:21 |
| dospod | well im out, i got school tommorow | 07:21 |
| dospod | cya | 07:21 |
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| johnx | 'later dolske | 07:21 |
| johnx | grr...sorry, I meant dospod | 07:21 |
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| rm_you | so... no one had any thoughts on my strace/dsmetest dilemma? | 07:22 |
| johnx | this is in scratchbox? | 07:23 |
| rm_you | on the device | 07:23 |
| johnx | you want to strace it on the device, right? | 07:23 |
| rm_you | yes | 07:23 |
| johnx | and it doesn't work, why? | 07:23 |
| rm_you | strace is installed on the device... | 07:23 |
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| rm_you | but to run dsmetest, i have to chroot into /mnt/initfs/ | 07:23 |
| rm_you | which doesn't have strace >_> | 07:23 |
| ds3 | anyone got a copy of roadmap compiled for OS2007 (https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=536&release_id=1342 <-- that but compiled for OS2007); there appears to used to be a copy at http://daveblank.com/n800/roadmap_1.1.0-1_armel.deb but that's gone | 07:23 |
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| ds3 | rm_you: strace chroot /mnt/initfs /usr/bin/XYZ | 07:24 |
| rm_you | lol i was just wondering if i could do that | 07:24 |
| Luria | did anyone manage to make a deb of abiword for chinook? | 07:25 |
| Mousey | anyone got freeciv working in OS2008? | 07:25 |
| rm_you | thanks | 07:25 |
| sibbe | just remember to use strace -f | 07:25 |
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| sibbe | ..and some other forking related switches | 07:25 |
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| sibbe | -ff, -o something, ... | 07:26 |
| ds3 | that shouldn't fork | 07:26 |
| ds3 | it should just be a series of exec's | 07:26 |
| sibbe | well but the dsme thingie might something | 07:27 |
| sibbe | +do | 07:27 |
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| ds3 | ah | 07:27 |
| rm_you | hrm ok i think i got an strace... | 07:27 |
| rm_you | http://pastebin.ca/850426 | 07:28 |
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| johnx | it's times like these when I wish I had a real physical console of some sort for the N800 | 07:28 |
| ds3 | no one know of a OS2007 binary of roadmap? | 07:28 |
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| sibbe | "brightness reqyest sent!\n" reqyest :) | 07:29 |
| rm_you | lol yeah | 07:29 |
| rm_you | it has a typo ^_^ | 07:29 |
| rm_you | write(3, "\f\0\0\0\211\2\0\0d\0\0\0", 12) = 12 | 07:30 |
| rm_you | could that be it writing the value to whatever is file pointer 3? | 07:30 |
| ds3 | rm_you: does dsmetest exit or does it loop continously? | 07:31 |
| rm_you | it exits | 07:31 |
| rm_you | it just runs, does its thing, and exits | 07:31 |
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| sibbe | do you have ldd? i wonder if that libdsme.so links to anything else | 07:32 |
| Tama-rro | Hi, first time here. I will lurk for a while and see if I can help :) | 07:32 |
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| Luria | Tama-rro, very conscientious. | 07:33 |
| johnx | hi Tama-rro :) | 07:33 |
| Tama-rro | Lol Luria, ciao Johnx | 07:34 |
| rm_you | http://pastebin.ca/850429 is correct... the other one had a duplicated section | 07:34 |
| rm_you | and the only lines that matter are between 38 and 76, right? | 07:35 |
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| Luria | whats a good svn client? | 07:42 |
| Luria | (for debian etch) | 07:42 |
| rm_you | i use esvn >_> | 07:43 |
| rm_you | i don't like it very much... but it's the best i've seen | 07:44 |
| blahdeblah | Luria: I use Eclipse with subclipse plugin. :-) | 07:44 |
| Luria | well, that's a hearty recommendation | 07:44 |
| Luria | no eclipse. | 07:45 |
| Luria | :-) | 07:45 |
| Luria | i tried to like eclipse | 07:45 |
| rm_you | wtf >_> | 07:45 |
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| Luria | but its so damn slow | 07:45 |
| rm_you | i try to run "ldd" or "/usr/bin/ldd" and it says "-sh: ldd: not found" | 07:46 |
| rm_you | but i can SEE the file there | 07:46 |
| rm_you | >_< | 07:46 |
| rm_you | it keeps doing that to me on all kinds of other programs too | 07:46 |
| rm_you | this is on the n800 | 07:46 |
| Tama-rro | PATH NOT SETUP CORRECTLY? | 07:46 |
| johnx | is it executable? are you getting I/O errors? is it a link to something dead? | 07:47 |
| Tama-rro | ops, sorry for caps | 07:47 |
| ds3 | try the one in /mnt/initfs/usr/bin/ldd | 07:47 |
| rm_you | Nezumi:/usr/bin# ls -l ldd | 07:47 |
| rm_you | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 5567 Sep 7 02:47 ldd | 07:47 |
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| Luria | so, if you want a laught... i tried installing some stuff from source last night... no gcc | 07:47 |
| rm_you | same, not found | 07:47 |
| Luria | so, apt-get install build-essential, right? | 07:48 |
| rm_you | even though i am trying to run it as ./ldd | 07:48 |
| Luria | but it kept hanging | 07:48 |
| rm_you | it's right there, i can see it | 07:48 |
| ds3 | rm_you: what about "chroot /mnt/initfs /usr/bin/ldd"? | 07:48 |
| Luria | i was doing this over a nx connection | 07:48 |
| ds3 | seem to recall there was something funny about getting ldd to work | 07:48 |
| johnx | rm_you, are you getting something weird out of dmesg? | 07:48 |
| Luria | now, i can install some of the packages | 07:48 |
| rm_you | chroot: cannot execute /usr/bin/ldd: No such file or directory | 07:48 |
| Tama-rro | sh /usr/bin/ldd works for me | 07:49 |
| rm_you | johnx: nope | 07:49 |
| ds3 | odd | 07:49 |
| rm_you | IT IS RIGHT THERE | 07:49 |
| rm_you | I SEE IT >_< | 07:49 |
| Luria | but not others. it just sat there not downloading. | 07:49 |
| Tama-rro | but /usr/bin/ldd says 'not found' | 07:49 |
| rm_you | but it *is* there | 07:49 |
| Luria | turns out, sources.list still had a reference to the install cd. | 07:49 |
| sibbe | run it with libc, eg. /lib/libc.so.something /usr/bin/ldd | 07:49 |
| Luria | oops. | 07:50 |
| sibbe | (the usual way of getting around noexec stuff) | 07:50 |
| rm_you | AH! | 07:50 |
| rm_you | I see | 07:50 |
| ds3 | do this - | 07:50 |
| rm_you | ldd is a bash script >_< | 07:50 |
| rm_you | no bash on n800 | 07:50 |
| rm_you | wtf | 07:50 |
| Luria | n800 runs ash/busybox | 07:51 |
| ds3 | "LD_DEBUG=all /usr/lib/libdsme.so" | 07:51 |
| sibbe | ahh.. didn't remember that | 07:51 |
| Luria | so that would be a problem | 07:51 |
| ds3 | it is a little verbose but should give you the info | 07:51 |
| Tama-rro | if you go : #sh /usr/bin/ldd it will run | 07:51 |
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| rm_you | ds3: it isn't executable | 07:55 |
| rm_you | and it just segfaults if i try to make it so :/ | 07:55 |
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| ds3 | oh :( | 07:59 |
| rm_you | well, i managed to get ldd into the chroot and it runs | 07:59 |
| rm_you | sort of | 07:59 |
| rm_you | it will output stuff on --help | 07:59 |
| rm_you | but if i try like... ldd $somefile | 07:59 |
| rm_you | it just exits and prints nothing | 07:59 |
| ds3 | i am tempted to flash to OS2008 on an N800.. is that advisable? | 08:00 |
| rm_you | yes | 08:00 |
| rm_you | thats what i'm running | 08:00 |
| ds3 | so there is enough critical mass of ported software? | 08:00 |
| rm_you | you really should... all the development work is moving to chinook | 08:00 |
| rm_you | everything i need is there. | 08:00 |
| rm_you | johnx: thoughts? | 08:01 |
| ds3 | just worried I will be missing software... got the unit for xmas and it is in a state I almost like it | 08:01 |
| rm_you | heh | 08:01 |
| rm_you | well, i had the device customized for like 3 months before i flashed | 08:01 |
| rm_you | so it took me like... 2 days to get it all back to normal | 08:01 |
| Luria | not worth staying on os2007 | 08:02 |
| ds3 | is it just a matter of ./flasher-static -F RX.....bin -f? | 08:02 |
| johnx | rm_you, it's a bash script...so it's probably expecting something that it can't find in initfs | 08:02 |
| Luria | only thing missing is abiword... | 08:02 |
| rm_you | johnx: i was thinking more like, your opinion on flashing to 2008 :P | 08:02 |
| Tama-rro | ldd may be using something bash-specific :( | 08:02 |
| ds3 | or do I need to unpack it and do it one by one from Linux? | 08:02 |
| johnx | flash to 2008OS unless you really need something 2007 specific | 08:02 |
| johnx | ds3, so far not on 2008: a2dp, abiword and evince | 08:03 |
| rm_you | a2dp as much as 2007 >_> better actually | 08:03 |
| ds3 | a2dp is the only one I care about | 08:03 |
| johnx | well, it's kinda there | 08:04 |
| ds3 | does HSP work? | 08:04 |
| rm_you | it's what john and i are foxusing on | 08:04 |
| rm_you | *focusing | 08:04 |
| johnx | HSP works out-of-the-box | 08:04 |
| ds3 | yeah, I saw your thread on IIT | 08:04 |
| ds3 | Oh nice | 08:04 |
| rm_you | all dev for a2dp has moved to 2008 anyway | 08:04 |
| ds3 | what about some player that can do both OGG and MP3 in the same playlist? | 08:04 |
| johnx | I'm not happy with how well it works, but it really does work about as good as 2007OS | 08:04 |
| rm_you | i dont think many people are interesting in developing for an outdated platform >_> | 08:04 |
| rm_you | ds3: lardman has an almost working DSP port of tremor, IIRC | 08:05 |
| johnx | anyways, I will be out for a while | 08:05 |
| * johnx lurks | 08:05 | |
| rm_you | johnx: ? | 08:05 |
| rm_you | kk | 08:05 |
| ds3 | so everything is on the "verge" of working ? | 08:05 |
| rm_you | everything fairly works | 08:05 |
| rm_you | a2dp works better than 2007, IMO | 08:05 |
| ds3 | rm_you: what about flashing? do I just pass the bin file to flasher with the -f option? or is there more to it? | 08:06 |
| rm_you | cause i can watch videos with a2dp perfectly... and on 2007 that was totally not doable | 08:06 |
| rm_you | i think thats it | 08:06 |
| ds3 | I've done kernel/initrd seperately | 08:06 |
| rm_you | check the maemo wiki or something :/ | 08:06 |
| ds3 | Okay | 08:06 |
| rm_you | i did it with the windoze flasher | 08:06 |
| ds3 | no windoze machines handy | 08:06 |
| rm_you | yeah, i have one for work | 08:06 |
| ds3 | the ones I have are not allowed on the network for security reasons. | 08:06 |
| rm_you | heh | 08:06 |
| johnx | just use flasher -r bleh.bin -f -R | 08:06 |
| johnx | that's IIRC | 08:06 |
| * johnx is really away now | 08:06 | |
| ds3 | thanks | 08:07 |
| rm_you | ds3: that reminds me, i really want to set up my own one of these networks: http://xkcd.com/350/ :P | 08:07 |
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| ds3 | heh | 08:08 |
| ds3 | it'll be a good excuse to avoid setting up asterisk so I can try out SIP ;) | 08:09 |
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| hachi | does anyone have good luck with modest and an imap inbox of about 5k emails? | 08:44 |
| Luria | i dont have luck with 600 | 08:47 |
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| Luria | go with claws, i would think | 08:47 |
| Panzerboy | Morning | 08:48 |
| Tama-rro | Modest crashes too often for me | 08:48 |
| Tama-rro | morning PanzerBoy | 08:48 |
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| * Panzerboy is ircing from his N810 | 08:48 | |
| Panzerboy | :-) | 08:49 |
| Panzerboy | Yeah, modest isn't quite there yet imho | 08:49 |
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| Tama-rro | and claws has fugly UI ;_; | 08:51 |
| rm_you | yeah, modest crashes on my inbox of 2k emails | 08:51 |
| rm_you | i have to use claws :/ | 08:51 |
| Panzerboy | The funny thing with modest is that, even though i've setup 2 accounts in it, i only see one | 08:52 |
| Panzerboy | But it notifies me if i get mail on the second | 08:53 |
| Panzerboy | So at the moment i am using gmail with the browser | 08:53 |
| Panzerboy | Not very nice | 08:54 |
| rm_you | yeah | 08:54 |
| rm_you | it refused to get email from my other account as well :/ | 08:55 |
| rm_you | err, rather, same symptom | 08:55 |
| Panzerboy | But it'll get better, it's only a matter of time | 08:55 |
| rm_you | yeah | 08:56 |
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| Tama-rro | I think modest displays only one acount at a time | 08:56 |
| Tama-rro | you have to switch from one to the other manually | 08:56 |
| Panzerboy | How? | 08:57 |
| Tama-rro | it will download emails from both though | 08:57 |
| Tama-rro | it's somewhere in the menu >.< I removed it after 2 hours so I do not rememeber | 08:57 |
| Tama-rro | maybe under 'view' | 08:57 |
| Panzerboy | Just make the 2nd default, or? | 08:57 |
| Tama-rro | nope, I think you can switch | 08:58 |
| hachi | what's claws? | 08:58 |
| Tama-rro | I remember going: "ahhhhh" | 08:58 |
| Panzerboy | Ok, i'll give it another try :-) | 08:58 |
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| Panzerboy | Brb | 08:58 |
| Tama-rro | "claws' is an email client | 08:58 |
| hachi | also, I'm trying to install gnokii, which depends on adduser, which doesn't appear to be available | 08:58 |
| hachi | anyone know what the deal is there? | 08:58 |
| Tama-rro | you want phonelink right? | 08:59 |
| Tama-rro | gnokii will not install but libgnokii is already there | 09:00 |
| hachi | I'm trying to get GPRS working with my moto slvr (works fine from my debian linux laptop) | 09:00 |
| hachi | thought maybe I could use gnokii to debug some of it | 09:01 |
| hachi | really shooting in the dark | 09:01 |
| Tama-rro | I see | 09:01 |
| Tama-rro | I have GPRS working on my V3 | 09:01 |
| Tama-rro | it worked at the first try, so I don't really know how to help | 09:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Isn't the left-hand bar on Modest where you select the account? | 09:01 |
| hachi | what's a V3? | 09:02 |
| Tama-rro | moto RAZR V3 | 09:02 |
| Panzerboy | There i see only account1 and the mail local on N810 | 09:02 |
| hachi | GeneralAntilles: it shows my accounts and all the imap folders in my accounts | 09:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | The early preview betas were actually more stable for me for some reason. | 09:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's gonna be good once they finish it up, though. | 09:03 |
| Panzerboy | Yeah | 09:03 |
| Tama-rro | I am reinstalling it | 09:04 |
| Tama-rro | just to check Iiiiiiiif I remember correctly | 09:04 |
| Panzerboy | Cool | 09:04 |
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| ds3 | okay commited to OS2008 now | 09:05 |
| Tama-rro | yes it's under 'view' | 09:05 |
| jalen | Panzerboy, how are you IRCing from your n8x0? SSH, or an actual client? | 09:05 |
| Tama-rro | at the bottom you can select one of your many accounts | 09:05 |
| hachi | I'm on IRC via ssh/screen/irssi | 09:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | xchat, built-in, Pidgin | 09:06 |
| Tama-rro | jalen he probably installed the rtcomm update for OS2008 | 09:06 |
| Panzerboy | Jalen: from pidgin | 09:06 |
| Tama-rro | ah ok | 09:06 |
| jalen | lol - ok, got a few answers there, heh | 09:06 |
| hachi | wait, rtcomm... is that related to bluetooth serial? | 09:06 |
| Tama-rro | I am irc-ing from the builtin client | 09:06 |
| Panzerboy | I have the rtcomm update but pidgin is cooler | 09:06 |
| Panzerboy | See u guys latter, gotta go to work | 09:07 |
| Tama-rro | no hachi, I think it is the name for the OS2008 communication subsys | 09:07 |
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| Tama-rro | (it confused me too the first time I saw it) | 09:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | rtcomm irc is a little underfeatured | 09:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pidgin is just lame | 09:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | xchat is the way to go. | 09:13 |
| rm_you | ds3: mentally committed? or the flasher is going? :P | 09:14 |
| Tama-rro | is there an os2008 version? :P | 09:14 |
| rm_you | yes | 09:14 |
| Jalen2 | beta, but yeah | 09:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | xchat chinook skyhusker | 09:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | should pull it up for you on google | 09:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jalen2, it's hardly beta | 09:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's never crashed on me. ;) | 09:15 |
| Jalen2 | ok, so just not added to the repos yet | 09:15 |
| Jalen2 | the deb on his site is still listed as beta | 09:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ | 09:16 |
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| Tama-rro | yep, I found it but thanks :) | 09:16 |
| Jalen | I definetly need a stowaway now :) | 09:17 |
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| hachi | do any of the mail clients on maemo support offline operation? | 09:23 |
| hachi | offline imap | 09:23 |
| hachi | modest appears not to... and just crashed | 09:24 |
| Panzerboy | Yeah, i would also like that | 09:24 |
| Panzerboy | I am not connected all the time unfortunately | 09:25 |
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| Panzerboy | I suppose modest will ... Some day | 09:25 |
| hachi | and claws doesn't let me do multiple accounts at the same time | 09:25 |
| Panzerboy | Laters guys | 09:25 |
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| cgreer | has anybody tried KDE for the internet tablet? | 09:29 |
| ds3 | rm_you: flasher done. configuring unit now | 09:29 |
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| rm_you | :P | 09:29 |
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| ds3 | hmm the default repositories don't include openssh or dropbear :( | 09:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Do too. | 09:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | openssh, anyway. | 09:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | At least they DID. | 09:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | extras | 09:32 |
| ds3 | let me look again | 09:32 |
| ds3 | nope, not in the browse installable apps | 09:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hmm | 09:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | You have Extras enabled, right? | 09:37 |
| ds3 | found out why | 09:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe it's in bora extras. | 09:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | I know I installed it right after I installed OS2008, though. | 09:37 |
| ds3 | extras is listed in the catalogs but it is disabled by default unlike OS2007 where it is not listed and I have to add it | 09:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | You didn't have Extras enabled. :P | 09:37 |
| ds3 | didn't expect them to provide repositories that aren't enabled! | 09:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 09:38 |
| rm_you | :P | 09:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Worst part, though | 09:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | is that it'll come disabled even if you restore from backup | 09:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | so you have to make sure to re-enable it before restoring applications. <_< | 09:38 |
| ds3 | oh that sucks | 09:38 |
| rm_you | i thought restoring a backup just BROKE 2008 anyway | 09:39 |
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| ds3 | map download is slow | 09:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, no, certain 2007 backups messed things up. | 09:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like having the browse engine set to Opera and whatnot. | 09:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | fwiw, my backup was actually from the second release of OS2007, and it worked fine. | 09:46 |
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| rm_you | hrm | 09:47 |
| ds3 | i'm playing it safe and not doing a restore... might unzip and scp things back over though | 09:47 |
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| Cptnodegard | ¨:( | 10:19 |
| Cptnodegard | play.com price is up | 10:19 |
| hachi | anyone built git or svn packages for maemo yet? | 10:20 |
| timely | hachi: see gronmayer in topic? | 10:23 |
| rm_you | timely: do you know how that is pronounced? | 10:25 |
| rm_you | timely: i've been curious :P | 10:25 |
| timely | not formally | 10:26 |
| rm_you | Gron Mayer? G. Ron Mayer? | 10:26 |
| rm_you | not even close? :P | 10:26 |
| rm_you | lol | 10:26 |
| timely | he's german | 10:26 |
| rm_you | is it his name? | 10:26 |
| timely | http://www.gronmayer.com/gronmayer/kontakt.html | 10:27 |
| hachi | timely: yeah... there's no matches there, that's why I was asking | 10:27 |
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| timely | hachi: you want to use git/svn on a device? | 10:28 |
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| hachi | yup | 10:28 |
| timely | why? | 10:28 |
| sibbe | ...why not? :) | 10:28 |
| hachi | cause I'd love to keep copies of my work on it, and be able to pull trunk | 10:28 |
| timely | it's his last name | 10:29 |
| * timely has his first name in an email | 10:29 | |
| script | hachi: i'm building svn ... | 10:29 |
| hachi | mostly so when I'm sitting at lunch and talking to other engineers about stuff, I can have the code right there | 10:29 |
| script | hachi: i used to do it for itos2006 .. but takes some time now | 10:29 |
| script | .. and i have no time ;) | 10:29 |
| timely | hachi: ssh+screen | 10:29 |
| hachi | I... need to set up a build env for this | 10:29 |
| hachi | timely: that assumes I have a connection | 10:29 |
| hachi | and since I can't get GPRS working with my phone... and nobody has a clue how to debug it. I'm stuck | 10:30 |
| timely | hachi: did you file a bug in bugs.maemo.org for your phone? | 10:30 |
| timely | connectivity:dun or something | 10:30 |
| timely | there's a nice guy who will help | 10:30 |
| hachi | no, I didn't know there was a bug tracker :\ | 10:31 |
| timely | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/8/ | 10:31 |
| timely | read about it ^ | 10:31 |
| timely | note that the post is old, you thankfully don | 10:32 |
| timely | t need to reorganize bug trackers very often | 10:33 |
| timely | ideally once is enough :) | 10:33 |
| hachi | is there more than one version of OS2008? | 10:33 |
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| timely | only 4 | 10:33 |
| timely | (at last count) | 10:33 |
| hachi | how do you find those? I see that page only talks about 06 and 07 | 10:33 |
| timely | see Would you give an approximate mapping? in 8/ ? | 10:34 |
| timely | that general approach would let you find them | 10:34 |
| timely | 'course it requires having a MAC address, but that's not too hard since itt and cnet explain howto :) | 10:34 |
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| hachi | what the devil are you saying? | 10:35 |
| timely | well, i'm sick and would rather be sleeping | 10:35 |
| hachi | approximate mapping? 8/? | 10:35 |
| timely | and i'm generally cryptic | 10:35 |
| timely | the url i pasted that ends in 8/ | 10:35 |
| hachi | I'm just trying to find the software updates for this | 10:35 |
| hachi | the OS updates | 10:35 |
| hachi | not the apt updates | 10:35 |
| hachi | I can't figure out who controls that, is it maemo? | 10:36 |
| timely | read the url i pasted, especially the section i indicated | 10:36 |
| hachi | no... they appear to be on nokia.com | 10:36 |
| hachi | I am reading it | 10:36 |
| timely | note that maemo isn't really an entity in a sense of able to control | 10:36 |
| hachi | oh, I'm sorry... it talks about an 800 | 10:37 |
| hachi | which I have an 810 | 10:37 |
| hachi | so that's why I'm asking you again | 10:37 |
| timely | same general idea | 10:37 |
| timely | use the n800 url and change it for n810 :) | 10:38 |
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| Panzerboy | aloha | 10:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Custom boot images are tasty. | 10:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Finally rid of those creepy hands. | 10:40 |
| timely | ? | 10:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14310 | 10:41 |
| timely | oh, you're not a connecting people fan? | 10:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Using a maemo/maemo thing instead of a nokia/nokia-hands thing. | 10:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm anti-social. :P | 10:41 |
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| rm_you | lol sweet | 10:42 |
| rm_you | i hate those hands too :P | 10:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's an svg of the maemo logo on the website if you want to roll your own. | 10:43 |
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| onion | bah, boot images suck.. what I'd like to have is the normal linux kernel messages | 10:44 |
| hachi | nokia.com says to go to maemo.org for flashing my device with linux... since I don't have windows that's my only choice | 10:45 |
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| hachi | maemo.org 2008 image is older than the one on my device though | 10:45 |
| timely | hachi: use maemo.org to get flasher3 | 10:45 |
| timely | use nokia.com to get the image | 10:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | onion, I could go for that, too. | 10:46 |
| timely | and if there's something wrong in the instructions, send feedback | 10:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | But the idea was shot down pretty hard last time I brought it up. ;) | 10:46 |
| hachi | I'm just having a hard time finding anything on nokia's site... if I go to the 810 page and then try to get to software, I end up back in the general area | 10:46 |
| timely | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php | 10:46 |
| timely | hachi: send feedback to nokia.com complaining | 10:47 |
| timely | the only way i know to do that is nokia care (see 8/ again) | 10:47 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php | 10:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | for the flasher | 10:47 |
| timely | GeneralAntilles: why have i *never* seen that url? | 10:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because you don't get around enough? | 10:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno | 10:48 |
| timely | where's OS X - x86? | 10:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a bug. | 10:48 |
| hachi | are there changelogs for the various versions of OS2008? that's why I'm trying to navigate to this stuff myself | 10:48 |
| hachi | I want to read the information available | 10:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Works well enough under Rosetta from what I hear. | 10:48 |
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| timely | hachi: no | 10:49 |
| Jaffa | Porting 0xFFFF to OS X/x86 should be possible, too | 10:49 |
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| timely | hachi: the best you have is... | 10:49 |
| timely | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/find?string=debian/changelog | 10:50 |
| timely | then look for things whose datestamps are after the original release | 10:50 |
| timely | if you're clever you can probably make a search w/in tha set | 10:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a package table on maemo.org for 2007 versus 2008. | 10:50 |
| timely | GeneralAntilles: he asked for various 2008 | 10:50 |
| timely | which means deltas | 10:50 |
| timely | the first 18=>19 thing was a kernel only fix | 10:51 |
| timely | it changed none of the source packages that i typically xref | 10:51 |
| timely | the next was the n800 beta | 10:51 |
| timely | and then there was the current release | 10:51 |
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| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: I would rather see kernel messages too :/ | 10:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems like there must be a way to do it. | 10:54 |
| timely | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/search?string=Dec 2007&find=debian/changelog | 10:54 |
| timely | should probably work | 10:54 |
| timely | hrm, it doesn't | 10:55 |
| timely | well, it "kinda works, but everyone else sucks" | 10:55 |
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| timely | i think the latest release also includes some new "apps" | 10:58 |
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| timely | oh, right, the xref only covers the open source components, so maybe it's accurate :) | 10:58 |
| timely | fwiw, writing useful changelogs is really time consuming | 10:58 |
| timely | it cost me weeks worth of time | 10:58 |
| timely | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/www/news/9/index.html | 10:59 |
| * timely decides garage is broken and gives out xref urls instead | 10:59 | |
| timely | GeneralAntilles / Jaffa, my favorite from 9/ | 11:01 |
| timely | "Restoring a backup from MicroB in OS2007 into an OS2008 device will result in a browser that crashes instead of just looping infinitely (please don't ask why this is considered a feature). " | 11:01 |
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| * timely sighs | 11:01 | |
| * timely should go off and shoot the reporters who didn't read the release notes but filed a bug complaining that the browser crashed | 11:02 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 11:02 |
| timely | i spent all that time writing detailed release notes, you'd think they'd do me the courtesy of reading them | 11:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm still in favor of requiring taser neck-bands for internet use. | 11:03 |
| Jaffa | :) | 11:03 |
| timely | we could ship everyone taser mp3 players | 11:03 |
| timely | that got announced at CES earlier this week | 11:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or maybe just for bugzilla and itt accounts. | 11:03 |
| timely | just have to rewrite it so that it's localized | 11:03 |
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| timely | s/write/wire/ | 11:04 |
| infobot | timely meant: just have to rewire it so that it's localized | 11:04 |
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| timely | 2398 is the bug i'm thinking of... | 11:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What's with MicroB's slow startup time in OS2008 50-2? | 11:05 |
| johnx | hachi, changelogs if you still want them : http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/first_official_os2008_update.html tr | 11:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | That something I should blame on my backup? | 11:05 |
| * timely shrugs | 11:05 | |
| timely | johnx: that's v. 2007, not v. 2008-orig | 11:06 |
| timely | oh | 11:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's about 10-12 seconds from tap to the start of loading the homepage. | 11:06 |
| timely | actually it is | 11:06 |
| timely | but the file names suck | 11:07 |
| onion | does the media player use playbin these days ? | 11:07 |
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| johnx | timeless, :) | 11:08 |
| timely | johnx: are hildon-theme-alpha and hildon-theme-gamma really in the device? | 11:08 |
| johnx | timely, I can check in a second | 11:08 |
| johnx | they have packages | 11:09 |
| Lahiru | hi.. I'm gonna have a 4GB SDHC as mmc1 and 1GB MicroSD as mmc2 will tht combination supports N800 with OS2008? | 11:09 |
| timely | sure | 11:09 |
| johnx | are they something cool I should install or ugly betas I should avoid? :P | 11:10 |
| timely | johnx: no clue | 11:10 |
| Veggen | johnx: I tend to install anything that looks fun ;) | 11:10 |
| timely | from memory and experience w/ prior releases and prereleases, the skins that got dropped earlier had serious glitches | 11:10 |
| timely | presumably if they shipped them the obvious glitches are gone | 11:10 |
| johnx | oh, guess it's installed ... but not selectable | 11:11 |
| timely | something like say black text on black background :) | 11:11 |
| johnx | also, not in the repo | 11:11 |
| timely | clever | 11:11 |
| timely | um... wanna try to force it? :) | 11:11 |
| Lahiru | 4GB SDHC + 1GB micro will be fine right? :) | 11:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, Lahiru. | 11:11 |
| johnx | never mind, they just have different names in theme selector | 11:11 |
| timely | Lahiru: w/ proper extenders | 11:11 |
| johnx | alpha = felicia | 11:11 |
| Lahiru | thanks GeneralAntilles | 11:12 |
| * timely remembers some themes actually swapping names in the past | 11:12 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Like timely says, just make sure you have an adaptor for the micro. | 11:12 |
| Lahiru | timely: w/proper? | 11:12 |
| johnx | afk for a bit | 11:12 |
| Lahiru | yes I'm using 1GB micro as the internal card | 11:13 |
| timely | that's cute, you file a bug against "theme cupidity" and all of a sudden "theme cupidity" is some other theme for which you filed other bugs | 11:13 |
| Lahiru | what I want is add new SDHC as the external card inorder to install KDE :D | 11:13 |
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| Lahiru | Thanks guys | 11:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia shoulda put two microsd cards into the N810 instead of a single mini | 11:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N900 should have 4 microSD slots. | 11:14 |
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| timely | sleep() | 11:14 |
| keesj | GeneralAntilles: why not some huge solid state disk? | 11:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Power usage? | 11:15 |
| keesj | interrupt() | 11:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Space? | 11:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Cost? | 11:15 |
| hachi | why the devil would you need 4 slots? | 11:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | SSD is kinda pointless for these devices anyway. | 11:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Better off just soldering the flash straight to the board. | 11:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | hachi, storage of course! | 11:15 |
| Lahiru | I thought the maximum capacity tht I can hv is 2GB thts y I got confused :) | 11:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's for the SD spec, Lahiru. | 11:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | and that's on a single card. | 11:16 |
| keesj | the n900 should be sold with a hacker kit just like openmoko (jtag and other fun stuff) | 11:16 |
| Lahiru | GeneralAntilles: cool :) | 11:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | OMAP3430 is gonna be fun. | 11:17 |
| keesj | I really wonder how I will recover from my broken n810 | 11:17 |
| keesj | (and if) | 11:17 |
| hachi | I have an openmoko here too | 11:17 |
| hachi | the n810 is just a little (lot) more mature | 11:18 |
| keesj | hachi: I loved the "Some assembly required" papper | 11:18 |
| keesj | hachi: openmoko is perhaps even longer term. I was really disapointed bye the phone | 11:19 |
| hachi | the neo consistently falls short on goals | 11:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the opposite of a consumer device right now. | 11:19 |
| *** b0unc3_ is now known as b0unc3 | 11:19 | |
| keesj | but the documentation and tools they use is really great. I have learned a lot from it | 11:19 |
| hachi | their built environment is pretty mature too | 11:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably somewhat comparable to Nokia releasing 770 prototypes. | 11:20 |
| b0unc3 | good morning | 11:20 |
| Cptnodegard | does anyone know how to filter rss results? | 11:20 |
| hachi | I haven't given maemo's build env a shot yet :\ | 11:20 |
| Cptnodegard | with the os2008 built in reader | 11:20 |
| hachi | I'm offloading the filter work to a plagger machine | 11:21 |
| keesj | GeneralAntilles: it did not leave me the same taste. The 770 was legendary for me. | 11:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | [4:20am] <GeneralAntilles>Probably somewhat comparable to Nokia releasing 770 _prototypes_. | 11:22 |
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| hachi | did the 770 get released many months late? (I don't know at all, so this isn't sarcasm) | 11:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It was delayed about 4-5 months. | 11:23 |
| hachi | ouch | 11:23 |
| hachi | from what I read about the 810, it was silence till the day it came out | 11:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sorta | 11:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | We had the FCC docs. | 11:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800 was REALLY unexpected. | 11:24 |
| keesj | yep | 11:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was expecting (well, hoping, mostly) a real upgrade with the N810. | 11:25 |
| keesj | There where the prototype foto's. and the rumours | 11:25 |
| hachi | now... time to figure out what's wrong with the internal xmpp client and my jabber server | 11:25 |
| hachi | GeneralAntilles: I opted to get the n810 because it's smaller by just enough... though I've heard some people say the 800 is better now | 11:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | The minisd kills it for me. | 11:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plus the stupid d-pad location. | 11:27 |
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| hachi | what does the 800 have? | 11:27 |
| hachi | sdmicro? | 11:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | dual SDHC | 11:27 |
| hachi | oh | 11:27 |
| hachi | well... ooops | 11:27 |
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| hachi | maybe I'll buy one of those next week | 11:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'll be able to drop 64gb in there and you'll still be stuck with 18GB. ;) | 11:27 |
| hachi | I thought this thing topped out at 10GB | 11:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | With current cards. | 11:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | 16GB miniSD cards are coming. | 11:28 |
| hachi | ahh | 11:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dual card slots was genius. | 11:28 |
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| hachi | my only gripe is the location of the unlock switch | 11:29 |
| hachi | which is behind the slide point | 11:29 |
| hachi | so the display locks on me after a few minutes... and then I can't unlock it because I have fat fingers or something (as I happen to be a walking stickman) | 11:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want soft power-off back. | 11:30 |
| hachi | I like mine being on all the time | 11:31 |
| hachi | I'm using it as an IM system while in the office | 11:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Soft power-off is basically locking, but without the hassle of a two-finger procedure. | 11:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can also set it up to drop in and out of offline mode. | 11:32 |
| * Jaffa likes the D-pad location on the N810, and the slide switch | 11:33 | |
| Jaffa | I much prefer the cleaner look of the outside | 11:34 |
| hachi | one thing I'm very happy with is the fact that the device is metal | 11:34 |
| hachi | it always feels cold, which is nice... I'm so tired of plastic things that feel hot | 11:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Crime deterrent! | 11:34 |
| hachi | crime detergent? | 11:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Old US cellphone commercial. | 11:35 |
| hachi | so, the internal IM client... it has a name, and I'm a dork and forgot it | 11:36 |
| hachi | can anyone point me to the sources? | 11:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7107840583664584754 | 11:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | rtcomm | 11:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | It may be closed. | 11:36 |
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| hachi | wow... weird | 11:37 |
| hachi | (the commercial) | 11:37 |
| hachi | in any case, that's gonna suck if it's closed | 11:37 |
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| hachi | it seems to be unable to parse perfectly formed xml :) | 11:37 |
| Cptnodegard | ok... help o.o the RSS home screen feed is displaying the feeds twice | 11:37 |
| sKaBoy | hachi, the gui is closed, the im framework is telepathy (and it's opensource) | 11:39 |
| hachi | thanks sKaBoy | 11:39 |
| hachi | now... uhh | 11:39 |
| hachi | how do I find a product via google called 'telepathy' | 11:39 |
| hachi | it's like trying to find a company named 'the' | 11:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ | 11:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Your google-fu is weak. :P | 11:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ | 11:40 |
| hachi | apparently so | 11:40 |
| sKaBoy | or #telepathy if you have questions :) | 11:41 |
| hachi | totally on that | 11:41 |
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| crashanddie | hey everyone, I'm trying to gather info for deving for maemo | 11:42 |
| onion | anyone with some mediaplayer/gst knowledge around ? | 11:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, maemo.org | 11:43 |
| zaheerm | gst knowledge yes... | 11:43 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: no, really? :P | 11:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, I'm just giving you the answer that will cover your question as well as possible. :P | 11:44 |
| onion | zaheerm: I'm trying to get my mod support package up and running on os2008.. it seems the media player uses playbin now(?) as it's seems to play a mp3 just fine.. but it won't play a mod. If I create a proper pipeline with gst-launch it plays fine | 11:45 |
| blahdeblah | Anyone know why http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/install/rapier.install gives me an "Authorization required" error regardless of whether i'm logged in or not? | 11:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Is rapier even in Chinook extras? | 11:46 |
| zaheerm | onion, sounds like the typefind for mod isn't there | 11:46 |
| blahdeblah | GeneralAntilles: Apparently. | 11:46 |
| blahdeblah | The main app screen is there, and the developer told me he uploaded it... | 11:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guess it is | 11:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Do you have Extras installed in app manager? | 11:47 |
| blahdeblah | Yes | 11:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just install it from there | 11:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | no need to bother with the .install | 11:47 |
| blahdeblah | Doesn't matter whether i try from app manager or the web site, i get the same result | 11:47 |
| zaheerm | onion, try: gst-launch -v filesrc location=blah.mod ! typefind ! fakesink | 11:47 |
| zaheerm | onion, and see what the caps of the typefind src pad is | 11:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | You have ssh installed, blahdeblah? | 11:47 |
| blahdeblah | yes | 11:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ssh in and run apt-get install rapier | 11:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | then give us the output? | 11:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | (pastebin) | 11:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's working over here. | 11:48 |
| blahdeblah | OK | 11:48 |
| onion | zaheerm: /pipeline0/typefindelement0.src: caps = audio/x-mod | 11:48 |
| blahdeblah | GeneralAntilles: I've never tried to ssh in from outside - do i need to do anything to set it up? | 11:49 |
| onion | seems to be correct | 11:49 |
| zaheerm | onion, so it does have typefind for mod..what happens when you do: gst-launch -v playbin uri=file:///home/user/blah.mod | 11:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shouldn't, as long as you have both client and server installed. | 11:49 |
| blahdeblah | Like a password maybe? | 11:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'll have to ssh as root. | 11:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Password is rootme by default | 11:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | (which you'll want to change) | 11:50 |
| blahdeblah | Looks like someone already has... ;-) | 11:50 |
| onion | zaheerm: Pipeline is PREROLLING ... | 11:50 |
| onion | gst-launch-0.10[5047]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GStreamer - gst_caps_copy_nth: assertion `GST_IS_CAPS (caps)' failed | 11:50 |
| blahdeblah | I can't get in with that password | 11:50 |
| onion | gst-launch-0.10[5047]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GStreamer - gst_caps_unref: assertion `caps != NULL' failed | 11:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Do you have becomeroot installed? | 11:50 |
| onion | + some more criticals | 11:50 |
| blahdeblah | GeneralAntilles: Not to my knowledge - never heard of it | 11:50 |
| zaheerm | onion: not good...you running this on the device or on a desktop? | 11:51 |
| onion | zaheerm: a filesrc ! modplug ! dsppcmsink pipe works | 11:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | One sec | 11:51 |
| onion | zaheerm: device | 11:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | blahdeblah, http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb | 11:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Root is inaccessible by default. | 11:51 |
| Jon | hmm. are there any F/OSS media players for maemo floating around? I mean, ones which can be hacked on? the licence for canola is pretty unpleasant | 11:52 |
| zaheerm | onion, ok try: gst-launch-0.10 uridecodebin uri=file:///home/user/blah.mod ! dsppcmsink | 11:52 |
| johnx | blahdeblah, did you install openssh-server? | 11:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | media center, maybe, Jon. | 11:52 |
| zaheerm | onion, not sure how the media player uses playbin, what properties it sets etc. | 11:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | If it's giving him a password request, yes, johnx. | 11:52 |
| Jon | I'll give that a look, cheers - I think I've tried that and it wouldn't start on my n800 | 11:52 |
| johnx | ah, nm | 11:52 |
| blahdeblah | johnx: yes | 11:52 |
| blahdeblah | GeneralAntilles: Call me paranoid, but i don't generally just click URLs that people post in IRC. Is there any doc on it at the maemo site? | 11:53 |
| onion | zaheerm: no such element on the device | 11:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | . . . | 11:53 |
| rm_you | in 2008 when you install openssh server, it prompts you for a new root password :P | 11:53 |
| johnx | I think recent openssh-server packages are supposed to ask you to set a root password on install | 11:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like I'm trying to hack your machine. | 11:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | w/e, I tried to help. | 11:53 |
| metatron | johnx, on os2008, yeah | 11:53 |
| zaheerm | onion, hmm do you have gdb and debug symbols on the device? | 11:54 |
| blahdeblah | GeneralAntilles: Like i said, call me paranoid. ;-) | 11:54 |
| rm_you | blahdeblah: install the file. we all did >_> | 11:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, figure it out yourself, then. :) | 11:54 |
| zaheerm | onion, also on a desktop, does playing the mod work with playbin? | 11:54 |
| blahdeblah | rm_you: hmmm... I seem to recall being asked for that. | 11:54 |
| onion | zaheerm: sec.. | 11:54 |
| rm_you | blahdeblah: in that case, you already set it. so try to remember :) | 11:54 |
| rm_you | or else install the deb file he linked you | 11:54 |
| rm_you | and sudo gainroot | 11:55 |
| rm_you | and then change it manually | 11:55 |
| johnx | becomeroot is pretty well documented, don't take our word for it | 11:55 |
| metatron | man, im gonna hack your n810 and turn it into an open relay. | 11:55 |
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| Panzerboy | haha | 11:55 |
| johnx | or just dpkg -x it and make sure you trust it | 11:55 |
| * blahdeblah remembers his root password! | 11:55 | |
| Panzerboy | yeah, i also have to install that one | 11:55 |
| onion | zaheerm: on my normal desktop it works yes | 11:55 |
| rm_you | blahdeblah: you'll probably want to install becomeroot anyway | 11:55 |
| rm_you | so you can sudo >_> | 11:56 |
| onion | zaheerm: but I have latest releases of all gst stuff there.. | 11:56 |
| zaheerm | onion, with no criticals? | 11:56 |
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| blahdeblah | can i just edit sources.list directly? | 11:56 |
| blahdeblah | It's telling me i've got duplicate repositories? | 11:56 |
| blahdeblah | s/\?// | 11:56 |
| rm_you | blahdeblah: sources.list.d/something | 11:56 |
| rm_you | yes | 11:56 |
| onion | zaheerm: I tried this gst-launch-0.10 -v filesrc location=/media/mmc2/Modules/liz.mod ! decodebin2 and with decodebin. decodebin2 complains with criticals, decodebin does not | 11:57 |
| onion | zaheerm: on the device | 11:57 |
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| zaheerm | onion, interesting...can you use --gst-fatal-warnings and get a core dump to gdb with on the pipeline with criticals | 11:58 |
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| blahdeblah | rm_you, GeneralAntilles: http://rafb.net/p/6SUMVi60.html | 11:59 |
| blahdeblah | If i go to http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz in my browser, i get "401 Authorization required". | 11:59 |
| blahdeblah | I really think this is an issue with the maemo.org web server. | 11:59 |
| blahdeblah | I can see http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/, though | 12:00 |
| blahdeblah | But not http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/Packages.bz2 or http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/Packages | 12:00 |
| blahdeblah | Permissions on the server, maybe? | 12:00 |
| johnx | blahdeblah, it works for me, but I think that maemo.org is actually different machines depending on your location | 12:01 |
| blahdeblah | johnx: That explains why it works for GeneralAntilles but not me. | 12:01 |
| johnx | what IP does it look like from where you are? | 12:01 |
| blahdeblah | 203-206-139-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.net | 12:02 |
| blahdeblah | and -72 | 12:02 |
| johnx | a515.g.akamai.net 219.188.199.136 | 12:02 |
| blahdeblah | I wonder if i can go to that directly. | 12:02 |
| * johnx tests | 12:02 | |
| blahdeblah | I would have thought it would all be vhosted | 12:02 |
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| johnx | can't connect directly | 12:03 |
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| * blahdeblah wonders if he can fool it with wget... | 12:03 | |
| blahdeblah | or a DNS override on his server... | 12:03 |
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| Khertan | Hi ! | 12:04 |
| johnx | I'm sure this isn't officially sanctioned but you can use stage.maemo.org instead of repository.maemo.org to workaround temporarily | 12:05 |
| Khertan | repository are down again ? | 12:05 |
| Cptnodegard | ITT is seriousely annoying me | 12:06 |
| johnx | Khertan, only if your handle is blahdeblah | 12:06 |
| Khertan | so no :) | 12:06 |
| johnx | the akamai servers he gets aren't cooperating | 12:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | stage isn't available anymore. | 12:06 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, it isn't? | 12:06 |
| Khertan | akamai have some problems this days ... | 12:06 |
| johnx | I figured since I could ping it ... | 12:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't respond over here. | 12:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 12:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe it's available in some places. | 12:07 |
| * blahdeblah is willing to try anything at this stage... | 12:07 | |
| johnx | it WFM | 12:07 |
| johnx | sigh | 12:07 |
| Khertan | wfm ? | 12:07 |
| blahdeblah | Khertan: works for me | 12:07 |
| johnx | WFM = works for me | 12:07 |
| blahdeblah | stage.maemo.org gives me the 401 as well | 12:08 |
| Khertan | ok (sorry i'm not english ... so i don't understand all acronyms ;) ) | 12:08 |
| * blahdeblah is not happy with akamai | 12:08 | |
| pupnik_ | wfm is new to me also | 12:08 |
| johnx | I hadn't seen WFM until yesterday but it was on this channel so I figured it was fair game | 12:08 |
| Khertan | lol | 12:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | bugzilla thing. | 12:09 |
| rm_you | does repostory.maemo.org still work? without the i? | 12:09 |
| * blahdeblah says AIF to MUT WTL | 12:09 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, that's stage.maemo.org | 12:09 |
| rm_you | >_> | 12:09 |
| johnx | blahdeblah, does stage.maemo.org resolve to 62.61.85.32 for you? | 12:09 |
| blahdeblah | Yep | 12:09 |
| rm_you | well, i still have the IP in my /etc/hosts >_> | 12:09 |
| rm_you | 62.61.85.32 repository.maemo.org | 12:10 |
| johnx | well that sucks... | 12:10 |
| blahdeblah | Yep | 12:10 |
| Panzerboy | hey, after sudo gainroot i've got root | 12:10 |
| Panzerboy | then i've setup a password for root | 12:10 |
| Panzerboy | then what next? :D | 12:10 |
| blahdeblah | Even when i try from my desktop, i still get 401 on http://stage.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz | 12:10 |
| Panzerboy | i see that sudo gainroot still works without any password | 12:10 |
| Khertan | Panzerboy: do a "rm -rf /" | 12:10 |
| rm_you | hrm time to try some stuff that may make my device gain super intelligence and try to kill me and steal my online identity | 12:10 |
| rm_you | sooo... brb | 12:10 |
| Khertan | hum don 't do this ! | 12:10 |
| Panzerboy | Khertan: funny | 12:11 |
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| * blahdeblah wonders if a download and dpkg -i will do the trick... | 12:11 | |
| Panzerboy | NOT :P | 12:11 |
| Panzerboy | no, but su doesn't work | 12:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | su - | 12:11 |
| Khertan | sudo su ;) | 12:11 |
| Panzerboy | doesn't either | 12:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Panzerboy, that's the correct functionality for sudo gainroot. | 12:11 |
| Panzerboy | i see, but the point is | 12:11 |
| Panzerboy | after i gain root | 12:11 |
| blahdeblah | Grrrrr! Even http://stage.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/r/rapier/rapier_1.0.3-0_all.deb gives me a 401 | 12:11 |
| Panzerboy | i want to protect it with a password, right? | 12:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, I'd download it and give you a mirror, blahdeblah. | 12:12 |
| Panzerboy | then i have to somehow be able to get root (via su for example) | 12:12 |
| Panzerboy | then i want sudo gainroot to not work anymore :p | 12:12 |
| Khertan | bladeblah > i get .deb ... no 401 error hrer | 12:12 |
| Panzerboy | and if i do sudo su, it expects the user password i suppose | 12:13 |
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| Khertan | if user are in the sudoers files | 12:14 |
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| Blafasel | Yay! My N810 just shipped to NYC | 12:16 |
| * blahdeblah gives up for tonight. Wake me up when akamai starts working... | 12:16 | |
| blahdeblah | Thanks for your help everyone. | 12:16 |
| Khertan | Blafasel: u're lucky | 12:17 |
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| Blafasel | Hmm.. I hope I'll get it on monday, when a friend of mine brings it here (Germany) | 12:17 |
| Khertan | it's seems that all french delivery has been canceled ... | 12:18 |
| Blafasel | But I completely forgot that the US has this strange 110V A/C stuff.. Need to buy an adapter today, I guess. | 12:18 |
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| Khertan | french delivery (for the maemo discounted device) | 12:18 |
| Khertan | it s a rumour on a french maemo forum | 12:18 |
| johnx | Blafasel, I think it takes 100-240v 50/60Hz | 12:18 |
| Blafasel | How much is one of those discounted one? | 12:19 |
| nomis | my N810 has arrived. | 12:19 |
| nomis | yay! | 12:19 |
| Blafasel | johnx: Really? The AC doesn't care about 110 vs. 220-230? | 12:19 |
| Khertan | Blafasel: how much ? (the discount program for the selected developpers) | 12:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Blafasel, we had electricity before you. :P | 12:19 |
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| Blafasel | GeneralAntilles: Huh? | 12:20 |
| onion | zaheerm: sure.. just how do I make it dump a core file ? | 12:20 |
| Blafasel | Khertan: Yeah, I was just curious how much it costs for pre-registered developers | 12:20 |
| johnx | Blafasel, it's 100-240v 50/60Hz | 12:20 |
| nomis | Blafasel: most power adapters for mobile devices (including Laptops) are tolerant regarding 110V vs. 230V. | 12:20 |
| johnx | just checked | 12:20 |
| blahdeblah | Does anyone know which media players on OS2008 can take advantage of maemo-scrobbler and ogg-support? | 12:21 |
| Blafasel | johnx, nomis: Thanks. If I'd know how the plug looks like in the US I might get away without an adapter (but I somehow doubt it?). | 12:21 |
| Khertan | Blafasel: it should cost 99 Euros ... but when we use the code it was 0Euros + Delivery ports (7,5Euros) .... | 12:21 |
| Blafasel | Khertan: Wow. Nice | 12:21 |
| Khertan | Blafasel: but delivery seems to be cancelled ... | 12:21 |
| nomis | Khertan: I got mine today. I paid 5 EUR of shipping cost. | 12:22 |
| Khertan | and one guy from a nokia let s me a message on my phone ... but with no more information | 12:22 |
| johnx | Blafasel, http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=nokia+phone+ac+adapter+US&btnG=Search+Images | 12:22 |
| nomis | Mhm. I wonder if Nokia will contact me regarding this. | 12:22 |
| Khertan | nomis: i take express delivery ... so in 48 hours ... bought the 04/01/08 ... and still not received it | 12:22 |
| Khertan | ;( | 12:22 |
| nomis | Khertan: sucks. | 12:23 |
| Khertan | i ve try to recontact it ... but noone answer to call .... | 12:23 |
| johnx | Blafasel, first pic is US ac adapter is first image | 12:23 |
| Blafasel | johnx: Thanks again. So off to buy an adapter during lunch | 12:23 |
| johnx | Blafasel, if you can find one that just converts shape, not voltage it will be lots cheaper | 12:24 |
| rtp | Khertan: your order was canceled. The guy from nokia will give you a new code to order one with the right discount | 12:24 |
| johnx | I don't know if those exist near you though | 12:24 |
| Khertan | a other guy on maemofr.org have a dial with one guy at the french store ... saying that send was cancelled and it give it a new discount code... and when he use it ... it get the n810 for 99Euros | 12:24 |
| Blafasel | johnx: No problem here (and I need one of those anyway), since the EU likes to vary a lot as well | 12:24 |
| Blafasel | I'm off to switzerland on monday, they for example use a different shape again | 12:25 |
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| Khertan | rtp: not very nice from nokia... as i ve no more informations .... | 12:25 |
| rtp | Khertan: if you tried to phone to the guy after 18h, it was too late :) | 12:25 |
| Khertan | rtp: i ve tryed before | 12:26 |
| Khertan | 30 min ... and after 30 min it was 18h ... and call connection close | 12:26 |
| Khertan | so i ve tryed at 17h30 | 12:26 |
| rtp | :( | 12:27 |
| rm_you | hrm | 12:27 |
| rm_you | for some reason i can't open /mnt/initfs/tmp/dsmesock in write mode :( | 12:27 |
| Khertan | so i'm wainting ... and i m a little furious .... | 12:27 |
| rm_you | it just fails | 12:27 |
| Khertan | but remembering that is a offer ... | 12:28 |
| blahdeblah | So no takers on maemo-scrobbler and ogg-support? | 12:28 |
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| Khertan | hum ... "gift" should be a more appropriate word :) | 12:29 |
| rtp | Khertan: well, take also into that ups are loosers too so you can also have delivery troubles ... | 12:29 |
| michele_ | hello | 12:29 |
| bedboi | can anyone point me to the thread about GPS (n810) on itt? | 12:29 |
| michele_ | is gnuite's gpx.cgi source available? | 12:29 |
| bedboi | i'm still having problems with that | 12:29 |
| Khertan | rtp: yes i know... i hate ups ... each time i ve problem with this company ... | 12:29 |
| Khertan | rtp: but as you should read it somewhere else, there is no tracking number on the nokia command status ... | 12:30 |
| rtp | Khertan: I don't need to read it somewhere. I know people who got their n810 :) | 12:30 |
| maddler | morning all... | 12:31 |
| Khertan | rtp: i read it that a french get it too (which get a call), and one get his order cancelled (which get a call too) | 12:32 |
| michele_ | bedboi: what kind of problems? | 12:32 |
| bedboi | it can't get a fix in a reasonable amount of time | 12:32 |
| bedboi | even if i am on the street | 12:32 |
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| johnx | bedboi, did you ever get the first fix? | 12:33 |
| bedboi | yep | 12:33 |
| johnx | how long did that take? | 12:34 |
| bedboi | in that case it took some minutes | 12:34 |
| michele_ | bedboi: my experience has been that the first time it took several minutes, then it varies, from one minute up | 12:34 |
| rtp | Khertan: I'm talking of french people too | 12:35 |
| bedboi | michele_: do you need not to move? | 12:35 |
| bedboi | in order to get a fix? | 12:35 |
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| michele_ | bedboi: no, it works even if I am moving in the car | 12:35 |
| bedboi | ok, so it's not my case | 12:35 |
| bedboi | even if i'm walkin on the streets it doesn't get a fix in 10 minutes walk | 12:35 |
| Khertan | rtp: yes ... and all lucky who get their n810 get it with standart delivery ... why i take a express delivery to get it ... stupid i am ... | 12:36 |
| borism | i've got mine from ebay from guy in u.s., arrived within two weeks :) | 12:39 |
| borism | i wonder where gps antenna is in there | 12:39 |
| johnx | isn't it near the weird corner on the top left? | 12:40 |
| keesj | I really did not have that problem yesterday. The only feeling I had is that the position showed it where you where a few seconds ago | 12:41 |
| borism | i doubt it - quite tight with space there | 12:41 |
| michele_ | yes, it's not very precise, but it gets better as you hook to more satellites | 12:42 |
| bedboi | michele_: now i'm in the very same place where i got the first fix, but the device is not able to get the fix again, which is quite weird. | 12:42 |
| borism | indoors? | 12:43 |
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| Veggen | bedboi: gps-coverage/conditions can vary a lot. | 12:45 |
| bedboi | Veggen: i never had a gps receiver, btw i think that you should get a fix at least once a day | 12:45 |
| bedboi | yesterday i didn't get any fix | 12:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | They really should've put a really GPS chip in the N810. | 12:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Any real GPS unit will get a fix in under a minute. | 12:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | My i-blue holds a fix pretty much anywhere and in under 40 seconds | 12:51 |
| michele_ | what do you mean a real gps chip? | 12:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not a shitty TI chip | 12:51 |
| michele_ | I have seen other mobile gps antennaes, and they don't work much better | 12:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | SiRF or MTK or somesuch. | 12:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Garmins I've used have all been great | 12:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | and bluetooth GPS units are really good. | 12:52 |
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| Khertan | my sirf III take 10 min in my car from cold start | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeesh | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Must have a bad antenna. | 12:54 |
| keesj | My tomtom works just fine (specialy when i download quickfixes) :p | 12:55 |
| Khertan | it s a tomtom one | 12:55 |
| Khertan | but it work very well in the car of my wife | 12:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Aha, you have treated windows? | 12:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some manufacturers have a metal treatment on the windows | 12:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | UV filtering or somesuch | 12:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | but it kills radio reception for devices inside the car. | 12:56 |
| Khertan | i ve a special window ... but i don t know how to say it in english ... wait ... you ll laught with google traduction ... :) | 12:57 |
| Khertan | Athermic windscreen | 12:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | That would be the reason for bad reception. | 12:57 |
| Khertan | hum ... not funny ... it s seem s to be good traduction ... | 12:57 |
| Juhaz | Khertan, moving car or just sitting there? | 12:58 |
| Khertan | GeneralAntilles: yeah i know ... and it s one of this first type of window .... the new one is more gps friendly* | 12:58 |
| Khertan | Juhaz: if i move it s noway .... :) | 12:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | The TomTom have an antenna port? | 12:59 |
| Khertan | do u have differences superior of 10 km/h between the speed indicated by the gps and your car ? | 12:59 |
| Khertan | GeneralAntilles: some have ... mine i don't know ... never use it ... it s mainly for my wife | 12:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | My GPS is within .5MPH when it gets a lock. | 13:00 |
| Juhaz | car speed meters ofter report bit too much, yes. | 13:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | The speedometer on my Beetle was actually 2MPH too fast. | 13:00 |
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| zetheroo | I really need Skype to have video on the N800.... sob... :'( | 13:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just get everybody to use Gizmo. | 13:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Skype sucks, anyway. | 13:02 |
| zetheroo | I am leaving on a work trip to the US for a month and want to have video chat with my wife and kids while I am on-the-go | 13:02 |
| zetheroo | Gizmo such too | 13:03 |
| mgedmin | what sucks most is that I have three different "internet call" programs in the Communications menu | 13:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Set them up with Gizmo, then. | 13:03 |
| zetheroo | no video for Linux | 13:03 |
| mgedmin | there should be only one | 13:03 |
| zetheroo | mgedmin: yes... same here.... | 13:03 |
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| zetheroo | ridiculous | 13:03 |
| mgedmin | of course it's skype's fault for not using a standard protocol... | 13:03 |
| Khertan | i ve tryed my car on a private road ... and gps indicate lower speed on high speed | 13:03 |
| zetheroo | mgedmin: its just that none of the apps, Skype, Gizmo or the default one are up to scratch..... arg | 13:04 |
| mgedmin | well, that too | 13:04 |
| keesj | consider voting on some bugs here https://developer.skype.com/jira/browse/SCL?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project:popularissues-panel | 13:04 |
| zetheroo | so frustrating | 13:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gizmo with the built-in client works well for me. | 13:04 |
| zetheroo | with windows? | 13:04 |
| zetheroo | with a Windows PC? | 13:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, on OS2008. | 13:04 |
| Blafasel | I'd rather use a solution based on xmpp and jingle | 13:05 |
| zetheroo | yeah... but with what OS are you video chatting to? | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | OS X | 13:05 |
| zetheroo | well my wife has a Mac | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | That'll work. | 13:05 |
| zetheroo | with OS X | 13:05 |
| zetheroo | ? | 13:05 |
| zetheroo | is it easy to setup? | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just install Gizmo | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | make sure she has a webcam | 13:05 |
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| Juhaz | my car shows almost 20km/h too much at 100km/h (the error seems to be a function of speed, not fixed) | 13:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Log it in, add yourself as a contact. | 13:06 |
| keesj | My girlfriend runs linux :( | 13:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | The other alternative is to just buy her an N800, zetheroo. :P | 13:06 |
| Nermal | hello all :) | 13:07 |
| Nermal | are there any nice little utils to tell me my current IP for os 2008 ? I used to have an applet for 2007 but I don't think it works in 2008 yet :| | 13:07 |
| zetheroo | GeneralAntilles: haha... I don't have money flowing like that.... | 13:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Connection Manager, Nermal. | 13:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nothing else right now. | 13:07 |
| zetheroo | why oh why does the Linux version not support Video..... | 13:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because nobody uses Linux. :P | 13:08 |
| Nermal | ok - if I wanted to install ifconfig what package is that in ? | 13:08 |
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| zetheroo | why is Linux alwasy behind? | 13:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because nobody uses Linux. :P | 13:08 |
| zetheroo | frustrating | 13:08 |
| Nermal | zetheroo, nah - we've had lots of things first :) | 13:08 |
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| zetheroo | thats not true...... many ppl use it | 13:08 |
| zetheroo | Nermal: maybe | 13:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | For servers, yes. | 13:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it doesn't have the critical mass on the desktop yet. | 13:09 |
| Nermal | but open source is primarily written by people who like to code rather than design UIs. It's also generally written for a technical audience. | 13:09 |
| zetheroo | whats better about the N810? | 13:09 |
| Nermal | so you get a lot of software which does what it does very well - but is unituative or difficult to use | 13:09 |
| zetheroo | Nermal: all that has got to change | 13:09 |
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| Nermal | I'd much rather code in my spare time than do usability testing and documentation | 13:10 |
| zetheroo | so there is no way to video chat from an N800 and a Linux PC? | 13:10 |
| Nermal | zetheroo, and it will I expect, as companies like canonical can pay people to do the stuff coders don't want to do | 13:10 |
| mgedmin | GNOME is pretty good in the UI design and ease-of-use department | 13:10 |
| zetheroo | I have been running Ubuntu on all my PC's (3) for a year | 13:10 |
| jjo | I sense a desktop environmert war in the air... | 13:10 |
| zetheroo | no Windows at all | 13:11 |
| zetheroo | jjo: no | 13:11 |
| zetheroo | no war | 13:11 |
| zetheroo | just peace and harmony | 13:11 |
| zetheroo | hehe | 13:11 |
| jjo | exactly and editing with the best editor ever, vim | 13:11 |
| Blafasel | ;) | 13:12 |
| Blafasel | Use ed | 13:12 |
| jjo | I do agree that gnome has done a lot of usability stuff and for me it works | 13:12 |
| keesj | zetheroo: yep. not possible | 13:12 |
| Khertan | Nermal: the ip applet will be available for os 2008 when the dev will receive their n810 device | 13:13 |
| Khertan | it s what he said on their site .... | 13:13 |
| Nermal | ah ok :) | 13:14 |
| Nermal | gah - no aptitude in os 2008 :( | 13:14 |
| Khertan | http://www.mulliner.org/blog/blosxom.cgi/2008/01/08#repositorystats | 13:14 |
| fugitivo | ok, i got an email with the correct link to buy the tablet in USA | 13:15 |
| fugitivo | but the code has no balance | 13:16 |
| mgedmin | oh? | 13:16 |
| mgedmin | I'm afraid to try it out | 13:16 |
| mgedmin | last time people whose orders had to be cancelled said that the code became invalid after one try | 13:16 |
| fugitivo | i'm going crazy with this issue :) | 13:16 |
| msh | yeah, mine didn't work either | 13:17 |
| mgedmin | by the way, is the code a "coupon code" or a "gift/reward code" | 13:17 |
| msh | just patience I guess. | 13:17 |
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| mgedmin | and what genius came up with the idea to have two different ones? | 13:17 |
| msh | and need to find a US creditcard. | 13:17 |
| msh | mgedmin: perhaps the number ranges overlap ;) | 13:17 |
| mgedmin | one entry box is narrower :) | 13:17 |
| fugitivo | one is Coupon code, the other Gift/Reward | 13:18 |
| fugitivo | first one doesn't work, the other works but no balance | 13:18 |
| zetheroo | are bluetooth headsets supported on the N800? | 13:18 |
| msh | fugitivo: "12345" has no balance too for "Gift" | 13:19 |
| Khertan | don't enjoy too early ... using the discount code doesn't mean you ll get your n810 .... | 13:19 |
| * msh grins | 13:19 | |
| zaheerm | is there a way of detecting if running inside hildon from inside python? | 13:19 |
| Khertan | zaheerm: yes ... | 13:20 |
| msh | note to self: avoid buying stuff from nokia stores :) | 13:20 |
| zaheerm | Khertan, do you know how? | 13:20 |
| Juhaz | zaheerm, try to import the module? | 13:20 |
| Khertan | zaheerm: need more information ? :) | 13:20 |
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| Khertan | try to import module ... if it fails ... u re not | 13:20 |
| zaheerm | Juhaz, i mean running inside it, not whether the python module is installed | 13:20 |
| Khertan | arg ... burnst by juhaz ... :) | 13:20 |
| mgedmin | zaheerm: why do you need that? | 13:20 |
| Juhaz | well, while there is theoretically a difference, when do you run into it in real world? | 13:21 |
| mgedmin | what problem are you solving? | 13:21 |
| Khertan | you can do as ukmp coders ... as u read the user name, and if there is a /media/mmc2 :) | 13:21 |
| Juhaz | hildon is just a library anyway, you can't be "running inside it", unless you've been embedded in some other app that uses hildon | 13:22 |
| Khertan | yes but why limits your app, if it can run on other device which have all the necessary libs ? | 13:23 |
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| zaheerm | this is just to enable hildon specific stuff | 13:23 |
| Khertan | so just enable it when the lib is available ... | 13:23 |
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| zaheerm | but yah i think you're right, just try importing hildon and seeing if it throws an exception or not | 13:23 |
| rm_you | zetheroo: yes | 13:23 |
| zaheerm | should suffice | 13:23 |
| zetheroo | rm_you: ok... cool | 13:24 |
| Khertan | i use hildon on my desktop pc ... so why your app shouldn't work on it ? is there any reason ? | 13:24 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: I *think* i'm making progress with this dsme brightness setting stuff... >_> | 13:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | So no need for the kernel? | 13:24 |
| zaheerm | Khertan, not really | 13:24 |
| rm_you | i didn't quite grasp how little I knew about coding, until today :P | 13:24 |
| rm_you | hopefully, if i can actually get this to work | 13:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you make an applet that allows full-range without the need for a custom kernel. . . . | 13:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, you'll make a LOT of people very happy. ;) | 13:25 |
| rm_you | lol | 13:25 |
| Khertan | rm_you: are u trying the python example to set brightness ? | 13:25 |
| rm_you | hopefully fanoush gets back to me | 13:25 |
| rm_you | Khertan: no? i'm using C | 13:25 |
| Khertan | still no news about python hildondesktop / or update on hildondesktop binding for ruby ? | 13:26 |
| rm_you | python would be so much better for me, because I actually know python >_> but apparently C is better for this (much faster, admittedly) | 13:26 |
| rm_you | Khertan: which python brightness example? | 13:26 |
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| Khertan | rm_you: c is better to do a applet ... mainly because python binding for hildon desktop arent functionnal yet ... | 13:26 |
| Khertan | rm_you: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_osso_examples/code/statusbar/osso_test_statusbar.py | 13:27 |
| Khertan | this one | 13:27 |
| rm_you | Khertan: that applet doesn't look like it DOES anything? | 13:29 |
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| hachi | the warnings on the OS flasher stuff say the memory card will be cleared... I think | 13:30 |
| Khertan | it s not an applet ... | 13:30 |
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| hachi | does that only mean the MTD will be cleared, or the mmc will be cleared too? | 13:30 |
| rm_you | Khertan: its a statusbar applet | 13:30 |
| rm_you | right | 13:30 |
| rm_you | ? | 13:30 |
| Khertan | it s just a small example to send a message to statusbar applet | 13:30 |
| hachi | oh, everything not on the memory card, okay | 13:30 |
| hachi | I read it backwards | 13:30 |
| rm_you | ???? | 13:30 |
| rm_you | >_> i don't get it | 13:31 |
| rm_you | I think i need to sleep now | 13:31 |
| Khertan | Status Bar | 13:31 |
| Khertan | http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_osso_examples/index.html | 13:31 |
| rm_you | I've been barely able to keep my eyes open for like the last 3 hours | 13:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sleep! Sleeeeeep! | 13:31 |
| rm_you | oh.... no. that's lame :P | 13:31 |
| rm_you | lol | 13:32 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: *you* should play with reverse engineering this #$^@ing thing | 13:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nah, that's what I have you for. :P | 13:32 |
| rm_you | lol | 13:32 |
| rm_you | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11958&page=5 | 13:32 |
| rm_you | my current test code is in the last post :P | 13:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nothing to install scratchbox on over here, anyway. | 13:33 |
| rm_you | ah, right | 13:33 |
| rm_you | lol | 13:33 |
| rm_you | i should ship you my 450 mhz dual pentium debian machine that I use as a foot-warmer | 13:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 13:34 |
| hachi | I have a dual P4 xeon that I use as a house warmer | 13:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, G5 that I use as an apartment warmer. | 13:34 |
| michele_ | rm_you: what are you trying to do with the brightness? | 13:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Get rid of the suck. | 13:35 |
| michele_ | it sucks? | 13:35 |
| rm_you | michele_: allow changing it in a range from 1-127 instead of a range from lame1-lame2-lame3-lame4 | 13:35 |
| michele_ | ok :) | 13:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | lame . . . hahaha | 13:35 |
| hachi | hey... which button is the home button on the 810 | 13:35 |
| mgedmin | one of the two | 13:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | The one with a house on it? | 13:36 |
| michele_ | no offense intended, but I'd rather see people working on useful applications instead of minor quirks like this ;) | 13:36 |
| hachi | no such button | 13:36 |
| michele_ | but hey, if it makes you feel better, just do it anyway | 13:36 |
| mgedmin | hachi: the one with the two overlapping rectangles, I think | 13:36 |
| mgedmin | I don't have a N810 yet | 13:36 |
| michele_ | there is no house on the 810 | 13:36 |
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| mgedmin | IIRC the two buttons on the left are Esc and Home | 13:37 |
| michele_ | yes, that one | 13:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | michele_, this is a major usability killer for a lot of people | 13:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hardly a "minor quirk" | 13:37 |
| mgedmin | rm_you: I wonder if you can tweak the default applet by setting some gconf keys | 13:37 |
| mgedmin | gconftool -R /|grep bright | 13:37 |
| mgedmin | the ones in /system/osso/dsm/display look interesting | 13:38 |
| hachi | yay flashed | 13:38 |
| mgedmin | max_display_brightness_levels and display_brightness_level_step | 13:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The applet would never give you a full-range of selection, mgedmin. | 13:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Only 5 steps. | 13:39 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: I see 9 steps in the applet here | 13:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OS2007 | 13:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | -05 | 13:40 |
| mgedmin | OS2008 | 13:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bull | 13:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are 5 steps. | 13:40 |
| inz | mgedmin, do the ones above 5 change the brightness? | 13:41 |
| mgedmin | yes | 13:41 |
| mgedmin | wait, no | 13:41 |
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| mgedmin | no | 13:41 |
| mgedmin | hm, fun | 13:41 |
| michele_ | what means when the presence applet has an exlamation mark on it? | 13:42 |
| mgedmin | perhaps steps 6-9 are valid on N810 hardware only | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Connection error of some sort, michele_. | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tap it and it'll usually tell you. | 13:42 |
| michele_ | oh right | 13:42 |
| inz | mgedmin, nope, N810 has only 5 too | 13:42 |
| michele_ | mgedmin: I have the 810 and I see 5 steps | 13:42 |
| mgedmin | wtfness | 13:42 |
| wnd | damn me and my curiosity. when I was told the built-in email client was, I should have believed them. I wanted to know just how bad it was, so I set the thing with my gmail account. it downloaded 5000 headers, consumed all available ram and put the thing to crawl. I managed to open the accounts dialog and click delete. after five minutes of waiting the device was still busy doing something so I ssh'd to the device and killed the process. this caused the email client t | 13:43 |
| wnd | o refuse to start until I rebooted. I checked the email client and the account was gone. I continued playing around until it said I had new email. I openend the email client and realised the account was still there. however this time "enprocess" is consuming all the cpu time and I cannot get the account dialog open. killing enprocess terminates the email client as well. is there /usr/bin/kill-email-client-accounts-and-delete-retrieved-headers.sh or something?-) | 13:43 |
| * wnd sighs | 13:43 | |
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| rm_you | mgedmin: ok well just spent about 5 minutes playing around with all of those display/brightness gconf values... only one of them appears to affect ANYTHING | 13:43 |
| rm_you | and all it does is switch between the presets >_> | 13:44 |
| zetheroo | GeneralAntilles: umm ... I am trying to get the video working in Gizmo with my wifes Mac..... | 13:44 |
| zetheroo | GeneralAntilles: but there is no video option in the Gizmo control panel | 13:44 |
| rm_you | zetheroo: you need like... the beta or something | 13:44 |
| rm_you | it's a much smaller link on the site | 13:44 |
| rm_you | IIRC | 13:45 |
| zetheroo | but there is only a beta for Windows | 13:45 |
| rm_you | :/ | 13:45 |
| rm_you | does the mac version have video in the stable version? | 13:45 |
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| zetheroo | GeneralAntilles: you there? | 13:46 |
| rm_you | zetheroo: it doesnt look like the mac client supports video yet? :/ | 13:46 |
| rm_you | just the windoze beta that i see | 13:46 |
| zetheroo | but.... | 13:46 |
| zetheroo | GeneralAntilles said he had it working on his mac | 13:47 |
| rm_you | I *did* test the windows beta <-> n800, and it worked nicely with video | 13:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, they HAD a Mac beta | 13:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | don't know where it went. | 13:47 |
| zetheroo | oh? | 13:47 |
| zetheroo | jee wiz | 13:47 |
| zetheroo | do you still have it? | 13:47 |
| zetheroo | can you send it my way? | 13:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not on this machine. | 13:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | not on a machine I have convenient access to. | 13:48 |
| zetheroo | shame | 13:49 |
| rm_you | well, anyways, this project is teaching me a ridiculous amount of cool stuff :) | 13:50 |
| rm_you | so whether i get it working or not... | 13:50 |
| rm_you | well, lets just hope i do :) | 13:50 |
| * rm_you sleeps | 13:50 | |
| GeneralAntilles | See, why in the world would you want me to learn all that cool stuff? :P | 13:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'night | 13:50 |
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| zetheroo | GeneralAntilles: do you mean the beta 3.1? | 13:52 |
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| zetheroo | for Leopard? | 13:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't recall the version | 13:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | but it did video. | 13:52 |
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| zetheroo | there is a Gizmo Beta with compatibility for Leopard.... its 3.1 | 13:53 |
| Cptnodegard | grrrrrrrrrrr | 13:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does it do video? | 13:53 |
| zetheroo | ummm | 13:53 |
| Cptnodegard | anyone here ever made a RSS feed? | 13:53 |
| zetheroo | I dunno\ | 13:53 |
| metatron | not intentionally | 13:53 |
| zetheroo | there is barely anything written about it | 13:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Intel machine, zetheroo? | 13:54 |
| zetheroo | ummm | 13:54 |
| zetheroo | the Mac? | 13:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 13:54 |
| zetheroo | nope | 13:54 |
| zetheroo | iBook | 13:55 |
| *** metatron is now known as Luria | 13:55 | |
| zetheroo | G4 | 13:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | No webcam on that | 13:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | USB? | 13:55 |
| zetheroo | yeah | 13:55 |
| zetheroo | do you have to have a webcam plugged in for the option to show in Gizmo? | 13:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno | 13:56 |
| zetheroo | how do you uninstall apps on a Mac? | 13:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tried it on a Macbook | 13:56 |
| zetheroo | with a built-in webcam? | 13:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did you ever pull it off the disk image? | 13:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 13:56 |
| zetheroo | I want to uninstall Gizmo | 13:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did you ever copy the application off the disk image? | 13:57 |
| zetheroo | umm | 13:57 |
| zetheroo | I installed it | 13:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Copied it to Applications? | 13:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | For 90% of stuff on OS X, you don't actually install anything | 13:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You just copy the application off of the disk image over to /Applications | 13:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which isn't necessary unless you actually want to keep it. | 13:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you did that | 13:58 |
| Luria | and end up with a bloody mess | 13:58 |
| Jaffa | Cptnodegard: yeah, I've made RSS feeds. | 13:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | then delete Gizmo out of /Applications | 13:59 |
| zetheroo | yeah thats what I did | 13:59 |
| zetheroo | oh ok | 13:59 |
| zetheroo | simple | 13:59 |
| zetheroo | wow | 13:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | and eject the disk image | 13:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | (or don't it'll go away after a restart) | 13:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Luria, what sort of "bloody mess". | 13:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | ? | 13:59 |
| Luria | lots of programs in a messy applications folder | 14:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stick them in folders, then. . . . | 14:00 |
| Luria | i do not like the way macs handle installs | 14:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why, too straightforward? :P | 14:00 |
| Luria | no, too cludgy | 14:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's application management software out there if you want that. | 14:00 |
| Luria | i like it less than windows even | 14:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | How is downloading an application and sticking it in a folder "kludgy"? | 14:01 |
| Luria | i also would like a proper application menu | 14:01 |
| Luria | except some things do, some things dont install that way | 14:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right, stuff that has to stick stuff in /Library and ~/Library, etc. | 14:01 |
| Luria | and some of the things that do install that way make (untracked) system changes | 14:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, that's not Apple's fault. | 14:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | I run everything by Quicksilver, anyway. | 14:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | click-click-click in a menu is a pain. | 14:02 |
| Panzerboy | yeah, Quicksilver rules | 14:02 |
| Panzerboy | even though if all you do is launch apps, spotlight in Leopard is enough | 14:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eh, spotlight is still too damn slow for that. | 14:03 |
| zetheroo | GeneralAntilles: still no video | 14:03 |
| Cptnodegard | [12:59] <Jaffa> Cptnodegard: yeah, I've made RSS feeds. <- im having trouble with the N800 reader, it only shows one of the items... I wanted to make a simple feed showing items named N/A to stop the os2008 rss reader to show duplicate items on the home screen when there's less than 4 itemsavailable | 14:03 |
| Cptnodegard | the feed: http://captain-odegard.com/rss.xml | 14:03 |
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| Jaffa | Cptnodegard: try it through http://feedvalidator.org/ | 14:04 |
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| zetheroo | sigh | 14:05 |
| Cptnodegard | thx | 14:05 |
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| mgedmin | the RSS reader shows only new times | 14:06 |
| mgedmin | where "new" means "those that weren't present in the feed when you last refreshed it" | 14:06 |
| zetheroo | GeneralAntilles: is there an easy way to test my webcam on this mac? | 14:06 |
| mgedmin | there's a bug filed about this | 14:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't know off-hand, zetheroo. | 14:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Never use webcams. | 14:07 |
| Nermal | is there a way to change the background colour of the simplelauncher app ? | 14:12 |
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| Panzerboy | zetheroo: what webcam you have? integrated iSight or some external? | 14:14 |
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| pupnik770 | bleh @ postman who just drove by... | 14:23 |
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| pupnik770 | wooooo!!!!!!! | 14:24 |
| keesj | great! | 14:25 |
| pupnik770 | weeeeeeee ;) | 14:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Time to register pupnikN810? :P | 14:29 |
| Cord | pupnik770: standard? | 14:29 |
| zetheroo | ok well I got me USB webcam working on the Mac... and Skype loves it... but Gizmo ... nothing | 14:29 |
| zetheroo | so... what about Googletalk? | 14:29 |
| zetheroo | does it do video chat? | 14:30 |
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| corona | Video or webcam chatting isn't currently supported in Google Talk. | 14:30 |
| corona | http://www.google.com/support/talkgadget/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=69432 | 14:31 |
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| zetheroo | so this webcam is completely useless fro me.... | 14:32 |
| zetheroo | great.... | 14:32 |
| zetheroo | should have spent the cash on an EeePC | 14:33 |
| corona | I'll take it - just cut it out ;) | 14:33 |
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| Nermal | lo pupnik770 - you waiting for an n810 ? | 14:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | zetheroo, give it two months. | 14:34 |
| zetheroo | what about jabber? | 14:34 |
| zetheroo | does that work on a Mac? | 14:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | You could do audio-only just fine. | 14:36 |
| zetheroo | and SIP? | 14:37 |
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| johnx | zetheroo, I think it's called xmeeting for SIP on Mac | 14:38 |
| zetheroo | can it handle video? | 14:39 |
| johnx | I honestly don't remember | 14:39 |
| johnx | should be easy to google | 14:39 |
| pupnik770 | hi nermal just arrived | 14:39 |
| zetheroo | is sip like skype and gizmo?.... | 14:41 |
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| pupnik770 | it is a standard for phone convo | 14:42 |
| zetheroo | do you need to buy credit to use it? | 14:42 |
| pupnik770 | i think some ISPs provide free or cheap SIP calls | 14:43 |
| zetheroo | oh ... so its like VOIP | 14:43 |
| Nermal | pupnik770, bit of an upgrade from the 770 then ? :) | 14:44 |
| pupnik770 | yeah just tested the screen in direct sunlight -- wow | 14:44 |
| Nermal | * pupnik770 is now known as pupnik810 :) | 14:44 |
| Nermal | you have sunlight where you are ? :| | 14:45 |
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| Nermal | bah - I want simplelauncher transparency :( | 14:45 |
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| Khertan | pupnik> you get a discounted n810 ? | 14:58 |
| pupnik770 | hopefully yes | 15:01 |
| pupnik770 | i have to check with the credit card holder | 15:01 |
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| Cord | pupnik770: standard delivery? | 15:02 |
| Khertan | for 99 Euro ? | 15:02 |
| pupnik770 | well apparently 0 euro. very nice of Nokia to increase the discount | 15:03 |
| pupnik770 | thanks are in order | 15:03 |
| Khertan | i ve ordered mine one week ago for 0Euros + 13 Euros for express delivery ... but never see it yet ... it s seems that order has been canceled for many people ... | 15:03 |
| Cord | Khertan: which country? | 15:03 |
| Khertan | and they need to call shop support | 15:03 |
| Khertan | which provide a new discount code for 99Euros ... | 15:04 |
| pupnik770 | .de | 15:04 |
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| Khertan | so pupnik don't expect to have it for 0Euro | 15:04 |
| Khertan | cord > french store | 15:04 |
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| pupnik770 | khertan, what country? | 15:04 |
| Cord | pupnik770: the discount isn't mentioned on the 'rechnung'? | 15:05 |
| Khertan | french | 15:05 |
| Khertan | franzosichen | 15:05 |
| pupnik770 | the discount is on the rechnung | 15:05 |
| wusel_ | cord: it was a delivery note, no bill ... | 15:05 |
| Cord | wusel_: ok. just to lazy to check with dict.leo.org ;-) | 15:05 |
| Khertan | i ve a bill which a received by mail ... after the delevery note | 15:06 |
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| Khertan | but it seem s they call back device sended by ups before the delivery | 15:08 |
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| mat|work | mine (0 euros, france) was apparently canceled, although I didn't receive any notification of that... | 15:11 |
| Cord | lets see. i now know about two Expressdelieveries and one Standard in .de | 15:14 |
| Cord | pupnik770: it was Standard-delivery? | 15:14 |
| alterego | Hmmm, ssh-agent doesn't seem to want to work on my N810 :/ | 15:15 |
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| Khertan | mat|work > hum .... same thing ... how do u know that yours has been cancelled ? | 15:16 |
| mat|work | because it's been a week since I ordered it ? :) | 15:17 |
| Khertan | ok ... like me | 15:17 |
| mat|work | also my roommate said I received a call from nokia | 15:18 |
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| Khertan | in express delivery ... | 15:18 |
| mat|work | she gave them my cellphone number but they haven't called me back | 15:18 |
| Khertan | it seems that one french get his device | 15:18 |
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| mat|work | maybe our lucky guy before they noticed the problem :) | 15:18 |
| mat|work | s/our/one/ | 15:18 |
| infobot | mat|work meant: maybe one lucky guy before they noticed the problem :) | 15:18 |
| mat|work | thanks, infobot | 15:18 |
| Khertan | j'ai ete appelé ... mais j'etais en train de dormir (malade) ... il a laissé un message disant qu'il allez me rappeler mais rien | 15:18 |
| Khertan | and i ve tryed to call her ... but noone answer ... | 15:19 |
| Cord | Khertan: no rude language here. thanks ;-) | 15:19 |
| Khertan | oupsss ... sorry for the french | 15:19 |
| * Cord hides. | 15:19 | |
| Khertan | so they call me back .... but just leave a message, saying that they call again ... but this never happen | 15:20 |
| Cord | Khertan: your order is still visible in the shop? | 15:20 |
| Khertan | yes | 15:20 |
| Khertan | and you ? | 15:21 |
| Khertan | i finish to eat ... then i ll call it ... | 15:21 |
| Cord | mine too, but i ordered at 08.01.2008 20:10 CET | 15:21 |
| mat|work | my order is also still visible | 15:22 |
| mat|work | I'd try to call them but I'm at work :( | 15:22 |
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| Khertan | Commandé le 04/01/2008 16:08 CET | 15:22 |
| Khertan | Commandé le = Ordered at ... | 15:22 |
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| Khertan | (copy / paste) | 15:22 |
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| Khertan | this maemo developpers program is a fiasco ... | 15:24 |
| Cord | the whole Shopsystem of Nokia is. including the services they provide for maemo. | 15:25 |
| Khertan | it s mostly give me the feeling that they laughting us .... | 15:25 |
| wumpus | yeah, agreed, you developers should have gotten one of the first of those devices | 15:25 |
| Cord | Khertan: they don't. because they don't care enough. | 15:25 |
| wumpus | this really sounds like it's not important at all | 15:25 |
| wumpus | indeed | 15:25 |
| Khertan | and at this time ... if their was similar device from other company ... i ll switch | 15:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm guessing the people that care either don't know or can't do anything about it. | 15:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | The rest either don't care or are entirely incompetent. | 15:26 |
| wumpus | I wouldn't blame you the least | 15:26 |
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| Khertan | For a company doing communicating device ... it s a shame that their is no communications with their customers and dev ... | 15:27 |
| pupnik770 | cord - ordered on the 9th, std delivery | 15:27 |
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| Cord | pupnik770: even half a day later than my collegues and me. | 15:27 |
| Khertan | they ve lost two customers which bought the n810 at his fullprice 10 days before in express due to no communication why their command has been cancelled | 15:28 |
| guardian | which should i prefer: dropbear ssh server or openssh ? | 15:28 |
| pupnik770 | delivery depends somewhat upon logistics - how many packages they have stocked up to go to a particular place | 15:28 |
| wumpus | of course, but they could at least try to communicate that better | 15:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | openssh | 15:29 |
| Khertan | pupnik> yes ... but when it s cancelled ... it s not a logistics problem | 15:29 |
| pupnik770 | ok | 15:29 |
| Khertan | nor a delay from the delivery company ... | 15:29 |
| guardian | ok | 15:30 |
| pupnik770 | first impression - speakers have a slight rattle/distortion when playing full volume | 15:30 |
| wumpus | dropbear should be somewhat smaller, but don't know the difference in capability | 15:30 |
| Khertan | i know that sometimes a express delivery in 48 could take more ... but it s the fault of the company delivery ... but not here | 15:30 |
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| Khertan | wumpus ... the main difference between dropbear and openssh for me is that dropbear is lacking some feature ... like scp | 15:49 |
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| Veggen | I always install openssh. | 15:49 |
| LoCusF | is there some advantage is in using dropbear vs. openssh ? | 15:49 |
| Blafasel | scp or sftp? | 15:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | dropbear is a lightweight deal. | 15:49 |
| wumpus | yes, I know it lacks some features, but I didn't know which | 15:49 |
| wumpus | scp sounds like a serious feature to miss though :/ | 15:50 |
| guardian | please can someone remind me how to become root on OS2007 | 15:50 |
| msh | dropbear should have scp if it's compiled in | 15:50 |
| msh | possibly not sftp though | 15:50 |
| guardian | login into ssh, "rootme" password, change password ? | 15:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://matt.ucc.asn.au/dropbear/dropbear.html | 15:50 |
| Blafasel | LoCusF: dropbear is the small and lean solution for embedded devices. If you have a router with linux/ssh on it, it's probably dropbear | 15:50 |
| * msh is matt | 15:50 | |
| wumpus | dropbear uses much less memory and disk space | 15:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Note the first paragraph | 15:50 |
| Blafasel | Call it the busybox of ssh | 15:50 |
| wumpus | not that important for the nokia, but indeed for routers etc it is | 15:50 |
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| Khertan | dropbear should have scp if it's compiled in > yes but it s not the case for the one available in the repository ... | 15:52 |
| Khertan | it was not the case when i test it the first time ... | 15:52 |
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| msh | mm. I'll try and sort that out when I get my n810 | 15:52 |
| blahdeblah | OK - gonna try this question again: which maemo media players support both maemo-scrobbler and ogg-support? | 15:53 |
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| giskard | hey guys do you think it's possible to share a bt wifi connection with the n810? | 15:57 |
| Sho_ | Wonderful - today my dev discount N810 arrived. Defective. This is starting to be comical. | 15:58 |
| Jaffa | giskard: need more clarification, what do you mean by "bt wifi connection"? | 15:58 |
| Khertan | lol | 15:58 |
| Nermal | Sho_, doh | 15:58 |
| Jaffa | giskard: BT's (the incumbent landline operator in the UK) wireless routers as part of their BT Broadband package should work flawlessly with the N810. | 15:58 |
| Sho_ | And the bill of delivery does have a column with the rebate, but didn't factor it into the total sum at the end, so I have no idea what I'm going to pay | 15:59 |
| giskard | bluetooth | 15:59 |
| Nermal | I think he means bluetooth | 15:59 |
| giskard | sorry | 15:59 |
| giskard | right | 15:59 |
| Sho_ | And given how utterly incapable Nokia is of getting anything right that is even remotely connected to this program, I can only imagine what fun it is going to be to get it replaced | 15:59 |
| Khertan | we can think that nokia is try to suicide their platform maemo ... or at least try to abandonned it ... | 15:59 |
| vegai | Sho_: defective, how? | 16:00 |
| Nermal | Sho_, at least you got a discount code :) | 16:00 |
| Jaffa | giskard/Nermal: indeed, but "bt wifi" doesn't make much sense | 16:00 |
| Sho_ | vegai: The screen has a strong yellow tint and is unintelligible | 16:00 |
| Jaffa | (to me, at least) | 16:00 |
| vegai | Ah, nasty. | 16:00 |
| giskard | jaffa...i mean share internet over bt | 16:00 |
| Nermal | take it to your "local nokia service centre" ? | 16:01 |
| Khertan | and how much was your rebate ? total ... or with a rest of 99 Euros ? | 16:01 |
| Sho_ | vegai: e.g. the Nokia hands at bootop are visible as faint shadows in a sea of murky yellow | 16:01 |
| Sho_ | Khertan: It says: Price: 459. Discount: 459. Shipping: 5. Total sum: 464 ;) | 16:01 |
| Jaffa | giskard: Yeah, I guessed that. With whom? Using what? Do you mean the N810 has a wireless connection using WLAN (i.e. 8021.11b/g) and then another N810 connects, over BlueTooth, to the first and uses it to piggy back its internet connection? | 16:01 |
| Sho_ | Khertan: So I have no idea what I'm going to pay ;) | 16:02 |
| Khertan | Sho_: i ve a total of 13 Euros for an express delivery ... but one week later ... still no device ... | 16:02 |
| derf | fugitivo: Did you figure out how to use the code? | 16:02 |
| Khertan | seems they have cancel the delivery | 16:02 |
| Sho_ | I've so far been fairly cool about this mess, but I have at admit: I'm this close to just giving up on the whole thing | 16:03 |
| Sho_ | *to admit | 16:03 |
| giskard | Jaffa, something like laptopt_bt -> n810. atm my ap is dead, i'm waiting the new fonera | 16:03 |
| Khertan | i m a bit furious about Nokia ... and hope for us, there is not real equivalent device in other company ... else i ll switch | 16:04 |
| fugitivo | derf: no, does it work? | 16:04 |
| derf | No. | 16:04 |
| Sho_ | They say in order to return a delivery, you have to email or phone them to get an RMA going | 16:04 |
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| Sho_ | Of course, they NEVER pick up the phone and answer emails after two weeks | 16:04 |
| Jaffa | giskard: OK, so laptop has an Internet connection somehow (e.g. ethernet, wlan etc.) and you then use Bluetooth PAN from the laptop to an N810. | 16:04 |
| Khertan | Sho_Of course, they NEVER pick up the phone and answer emails after two weeks .... same things | 16:04 |
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| derf | For the N800, I had to call the store and it took like an hour before I could find someone who knew enough to activate the code. | 16:05 |
| Jaffa | giskard: I want to do exactly the same (and on Windows, for when I'm at work). It's theoretically possible, and definitely doable with a Linux laptop. But will require much fiddling on both the laptop and the N810 | 16:05 |
| derf | Just double-checking before I try that again for the N810. | 16:05 |
| Sho_ | so: (1) It took forever, (2) the process was buggy, (3) I have no idea what I'm going to pay now because the emails and the bill of delivery make no sense and are conflicting, (d) the delivered unit is defective | 16:05 |
| Sho_ | Total failure in every respect :) | 16:05 |
| tableteer | blahdeblah: Take a look at UKMP - seems to support both | 16:05 |
| corona | 1,2,3,d ... | 16:06 |
| Khertan | Sho_: it really a shame for a company doing communicating device to not communicate | 16:06 |
| blahdeblah | tableteer: Thanks | 16:07 |
| giskard | Jaffa, i could use the ipw2200-ap module but this solution is too easy. ;) | 16:07 |
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| Sho_ | I guess I have to wait and see what they charge the credit card with before I try to get it replaced, in case I have to fight two battles (one about the wrong sum, one about the replacement) | 16:08 |
| Cord | Sho_: we are also waiting for that. | 16:08 |
| Sho_ | Cord: Do your delivered units at least work, or did they kick against each one to punish the evil discount recipients that make them work so hard? ;) | 16:09 |
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| Cord | Sho_: we got two up to now (out of four). both came on Express and are working. | 16:10 |
| tableteer | Sho_: Two devices received here at Guetersloh so far. Both work. | 16:10 |
| Sho_ | Cord: I.e. when you switch it on the screen goes immediately proper white and readability? | 16:10 |
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| tableteer | Sho_: Yep. | 16:10 |
| Sho_ | Alright, then I guess my murky sea of yellow with faint shadows of windows and type really isn't normal ;-) | 16:11 |
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| * Sho_ still had a faint hope ;) | 16:11 | |
| tableteer | :-/ | 16:11 |
| Cord | Sho_: i have no idea. i ahven't looked at those. but my two collegues didn'T complain, and i'm sure that almost one of those would. | 16:11 |
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| Cord | s/almost/at least/ | 16:12 |
| infobot | Cord meant: Sho_: i have no idea. i ahven't looked at those. but my two collegues didn'T complain, and i'm sure that at least one of those would. | 16:12 |
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| Cord | corona: we need this feature in our bot :-) | 16:13 |
| Cord | corona: and it is friday. :-))) | 16:13 |
| tableteer | I'm curious about the "real" bill(s) I've to pay. I paid for two devices... | 16:13 |
| tableteer | One for my collegue not having a CC... | 16:14 |
| Jaffa | giskard: http://www.wifizard.com/tutorialsXP/generic_bluetooth_pan/index.htm looks interest | 16:14 |
| Jaffa | +ing | 16:14 |
| tableteer | Every other online shop offers additional payment methods... | 16:15 |
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| corona | Cord, ack - and actually it's friday ;) | 16:15 |
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| Khertan | yeah someone pick the phone in the french store ! | 16:16 |
| Sho_ | tableteer: My bill of delivery says price 459, discount 459, shipping 5, total sum 464 ;) | 16:17 |
| Sho_ | tableteer: So I have no idea what's it going to be - 5? 104? 464? ;) | 16:17 |
| derf | NokiaUSA has, of course, never heard of this discount program. | 16:17 |
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| maddler | is anyone experiencing web browser slowness while starting it? | 16:19 |
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| giskard | Jaffa, will take a look, fighting against ad-hoc ;) | 16:21 |
| maddler | giskard! | 16:21 |
| derf | Well, this person was much less helpful than the one I talked to when ordering the N800. | 16:22 |
| derf | In that they refused to authorize the code at all. | 16:22 |
| giskard | maddler, :) | 16:22 |
| Cptnodegard | donkey! | 16:22 |
| tableteer | Sho_: My delivery note states the same (expect the shipping costs). But I've a NokiaCare.EMEA-Case open. Seems that the people there have been accelerated. After weeks of no feedback (concerning the question when the discount will work), I already got two mails this week. One telling me the codes work now. And one question concerning the Order No. (for checking the discount/bill). | 16:22 |
| Sho_ | tableteer: I wrote them a mail via the contact form about the discount codes last week, and got no reply so far ;) | 16:23 |
| Cptnodegard | star in the book for anyone who have any idea whatsoever how to make GPE summary white on black instead of black on white | 16:24 |
| Sho_ | tableteer: Would be interesting to hear the result of your inquery about the price. I'm wary to try and start the RMA process for my defective unit until I know whether or not I'm going to have to fight a battle about the price. | 16:24 |
| j0tt | Sho_: 1 Nokia N810 Internet Tablet 02701Z7 0,00 € (+s&h...) <- that's what the final price in their confirmation mail was (nokia.de) | 16:24 |
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| Cord | tableteer: hey, why don'T you use your nick! | 16:24 |
| Sho_ | j0tt: Yes, that's what my mail said, too. But not the bill of delivery in the package. | 16:24 |
| wusel_ | sho_: my delivery note states nothing about the rebate (see http://blogdoch.net/images/100120081216-cut-2.png), but the crappy mails from that crappy online store say they billed my CC with a total of 13,-- EUR ;) I'll just have to wait for the credit card company to sent me their bill ;) | 16:26 |
| Sho_ | wusel_: Same here. Hope at least your delivered unit wasn't defective ;) | 16:26 |
| maddler | Cptnodegard: Shreck! | 16:26 |
| maddler | :D | 16:26 |
| Cptnodegard | indeed :D | 16:26 |
| wusel_ | Sho_: It's /me Cord was sure about having told him if the N810 would have been defective ;) | 16:27 |
| * Cord whistles. | 16:27 | |
| wusel_ | .oO( works like a charm, my little precioussss ;) ) | 16:27 |
| Sho_ | don't rub it in :( | 16:28 |
| Cord | wusel_: don't fall in the lava... the guy yesterday wasn't so lucky. | 16:28 |
| alterego | It's nice that they install maps for your location in the N810 .. | 16:28 |
| alterego | I tried downloading them on the N800 but it took forever. | 16:28 |
| alterego | So that's handy. | 16:28 |
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| Cptnodegard | turn off your porn downloads while downloading maps ;D | 16:28 |
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| alterego | Not everyone's a sex pest like you Cptnodegard :P | 16:29 |
| Cord | . o O ( the internet is for porn *sing!* ) | 16:29 |
| Cptnodegard | lol | 16:29 |
| * alterego wonders if he's the only one that changes his tablets hostnames .. | 16:29 | |
| * Sho_ wishes he had a blog to publish a rant ;) | 16:29 | |
| alterego | I actually give my tablets DNS too. | 16:29 |
| Cord | ( ---> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645 ) | 16:30 |
| wusel_ | tableteer and I did some short navigational contest this morning (his N810 against my GoPal), besides the loooong time for any first lock (some minutes in both tableteers and my case, compared to ~30 sec. on the GoPal), it's quite amazing. | 16:30 |
| Veggen | alterego: me too. | 16:30 |
| Khertan | Numéro de suivi : 1Z 5AX 418 04 8004 148 0 | 16:30 |
| alterego | Veggen, what have you named your tablet? | 16:30 |
| Khertan | Numéro de suivi : 1Z 5AX 418 04 8004 148 0 | 16:30 |
| wusel_ | .oO( especially compared to that bloddy fake-gps in the N95 ;) ) | 16:30 |
| Khertan | Livré : S GRAVENHAGE, NL | 16:30 |
| Khertan | great : | 16:30 |
| Khertan | order come back to nokia | 16:30 |
| Khertan | they cancel the delivery ... | 16:31 |
| Khertan | give me a new code for 99Euro instead of 0Euro | 16:31 |
| Khertan | GREAT !: | 16:31 |
| Khertan | grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr | 16:31 |
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| wusel_ | .oo( should i try cord's link on the n810?) | 16:31 |
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| Veggen | alterego: storsteinen. Goes with my name schedule internally. Named after peaks/walking destinations around a cabin I used to frequent :) | 16:31 |
| derf | Khertan: At least they admit that the program exists! | 16:32 |
| derf | NokiaUSA does not. | 16:32 |
| florian | nomis: So we feel lucky, eh? | 16:32 |
| alterego | Khertan, did the email that said the site was ready to take orders from you have a code at the bottom? The code I got when I originally got accepted was different to the one in the email saying I could order. | 16:32 |
| alterego | Veggen, My N800 is called Neptune, and my N810 is called Proteus. | 16:32 |
| alterego | All of my devices/computers have astrologically related names for some reason. | 16:33 |
| Veggen | hmm. Order a n810, I wonder? | 16:33 |
| Veggen | yah, I know I'll want one eventually. | 16:34 |
| guardian | is there another way than mount --bind to share a directory between my home and my home inside scratchbox ? | 16:34 |
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| alterego | Veggen, they're very sexy :) | 16:34 |
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| bedboi | someone told me that the "right" way to read data in sysfs without polling is using g_io_add_watch... | 16:34 |
| bedboi | now i have a question: should i create the GIOChannel using g_io_channel_new_file ? | 16:35 |
| bedboi | the fact is that the callback is called just once even if the content of the file changes | 16:35 |
| Khertan | alterego ... yes the site provide in the link | 16:36 |
| Khertan | alterego: there is only one in france ... | 16:36 |
| alterego | Ah | 16:36 |
| alterego | I feel slightly insulted that Americans pay less for N810's than we do :/ | 16:36 |
| derf | We do? | 16:36 |
| Veggen | 3 euro more for express. yah. | 16:36 |
| Veggen | (29 instead of 26 euro) | 16:36 |
| derf | Or you mean, without the discount. | 16:36 |
| alterego | Without the discount | 16:37 |
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| derf | Well, maybe you Europeans should print more money and devalue your currency. | 16:37 |
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| alterego | That's a great idea! | 16:37 |
| derf | It's worked for us. | 16:37 |
| alterego | Well, comparatively I'd imagine that in the US the value is the same, or maybe even more. | 16:38 |
| Khertan | derf> yes but we have stupid president .... | 16:38 |
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| nomis | florian: I think so. | 16:38 |
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| alterego | It's just I see the price difference and I think to myself, why not just order from NokiaUSA? | 16:38 |
| Khertan | they think a high currency is a good thing | 16:38 |
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| derf | Khertan: It _is_ a good thing... for some people. | 16:38 |
| derf | It is bad for others. | 16:38 |
| glass | alterego: getting hit in customs risk | 16:39 |
| glass | alterego: woudl have to pay the vat and possibly a small import tax | 16:39 |
| Khertan | derf: it s a good thing for people which have a low value | 16:39 |
| alterego | glass, maybe, but I'd probably actually order it to a friend or via a UPO | 16:39 |
| glass | alterego: in finland anyhow.. thats if the packet gets picked up by the customs | 16:39 |
| glass | alterego: it might still get stuck in customs. mark it as books btw.. | 16:39 |
| Khertan | and we can't buy from us nokia store ... has us don't ship in france | 16:39 |
| glass | they usually get through | 16:39 |
| alterego | If I send it to a UPO it doesn't matter. | 16:40 |
| alterego | Customs have nothing to do with it. | 16:40 |
| derf | Khertan: It's a bad thing for people with large cash (or cash-equivalent) assets. | 16:40 |
| derf | I.e., the people who make the decisions. | 16:40 |
| glass | alterego: upo? | 16:40 |
| Sho_ | tableteer: I wonder if I might be able to replace it in the local Nokia service shop instead of sending it away .. | 16:40 |
| Khertan | we ve no choice ... all company do that ... the conversion is always the same 1$ HT = 1Euros HT + 20% TAX + Tax on import + Tax + Tax | 16:40 |
| Veggen | well, n810 ordered. | 16:40 |
| alterego | maemo.rubyx.co.uk is back up :D | 16:40 |
| derf | Also importers. | 16:40 |
| Khertan | derfKhertan: It's a bad thing for people with large cash (or cash-equivalent) assets. > no as they invest in company which can't product in france due too too high currency | 16:41 |
| inz | bedboi, it might not work for all files | 16:41 |
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| glass | alterego: doesn't matter what it arrives to europe with, parcel servics, posts.. it might still get stuck in customs unless your friend brings it over in luggage | 16:42 |
| bedboi | inz: in that case the only way is polling | 16:42 |
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| Khertan | airbus which close some production site in france to create it outside the euro zone | 16:42 |
| inz | bedboi, what file are you reading? | 16:42 |
| guardian | is there another way than mount --bind to share a directory between my home and my home inside scratchbox ? | 16:42 |
| alterego | glass, not if it gets shipped into an AO | 16:42 |
| Veggen | Khertan: For Norway, this is a great problem. | 16:42 |
| alterego | APO ,, | 16:42 |
| bedboi | inz: /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon0/device/lux | 16:42 |
| glass | alterego: what is that? | 16:42 |
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| inz | bedboi, I think the value there changes so much that anything else than polling doesn't really make sense | 16:42 |
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| glass | alterego: and how does it circumvent customs | 16:43 |
| derf | Khertan: But Airbus still owns the new production site, which saves them money. | 16:43 |
| alterego | An APO is a postbox for Americans that work on bases. | 16:43 |
| glass | ah ok | 16:43 |
| bedboi | inz: i was thinking the same | 16:43 |
| derf | So anyone who invested in Airbus hasn't lost anything. | 16:43 |
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| bedboi | inz: btw i don't really know how internally (in the driver) they update the value | 16:43 |
| Khertan | derf: do you have see the falldawn of the airbus market share ? | 16:43 |
| derf | I mean, in the US everyone moved their manufacturing to China because it was so much cheaper. | 16:43 |
| derf | And all the investors thought it was great. | 16:44 |
| Khertan | derf: same thing in europe | 16:44 |
| Veggen | derf: same here, yes. | 16:44 |
| glass | alterego: i once paid the tax on sneakers for a box that had xbox etc in it.. friend used receipts as packing material | 16:44 |
| alterego | Hah | 16:44 |
| glass | so the customs official opens the box | 16:45 |
| inz | bedboi, they might read it from the device every time the file is read | 16:45 |
| alterego | I bet they were thinking. "This is a damn heavy pair of boots!" :D | 16:45 |
| glass | picks up the first receipt | 16:45 |
| Veggen | Actually, I think it'd be good for the environment if the largely polluting container ships actually had to pay some hefty environment fee. Right now it's ridiculously cheap to ship something to the other side of the world. | 16:45 |
| glass | dunno if he knew english | 16:45 |
| bedboi | inz: it can be like that. | 16:45 |
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| bedboi | inz: if it's like that than i must poll | 16:45 |
| murrayc | They should just throw it up in the air long enough for the planet to rotate around. | 16:46 |
| derf | Veggen: Because you think making consumer products more expensive will help matters? | 16:46 |
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| Veggen | derf: mm, well. One should make it pay off to produce things locally... | 16:48 |
| derf | Veggen: America tried the whole protectionism thing in the late 19th century. | 16:48 |
| derf | It turns out it works really badly. | 16:48 |
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| jkyro | it's not like there's no more protectionism | 16:49 |
| Veggen | it's not about protectionism, it's about making the container ships paying an environment tax. | 16:49 |
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| Veggen | (not making it pay off to pollute more) | 16:50 |
| jkyro | in reality, theres | 16:50 |
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| jkyro | a fat chance that the chinese or the koreans would enforce something like this | 16:50 |
| inz | bedboi, shame there isn't any dbus signal sent when the system detects lighting condition change | 16:51 |
| bedboi | inz: i'm writing a small library | 16:51 |
| bedboi | then i can provide a dbus signal | 16:51 |
| Veggen | jkyro: I'm not saying it's realistical :) | 16:51 |
| inz | bedboi, yeah, but they're anyway already monitoring the sensor | 16:51 |
| bedboi | inz: are you sure? | 16:52 |
| inz | bedboi, try covering the sensor with your finger and see what happends | 16:52 |
| jkyro | Veggen: oh, then why stop in shipping | 16:52 |
| jkyro | tax anything that has negative externalities like pollution | 16:52 |
| bedboi | inz: what happens? | 16:53 |
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| derf | And who do you pay the tax to? Europe? China? What do those governments do with the money? | 16:53 |
| inz | bedboi, the screen should dim a bit | 16:53 |
| penguinbait | does anyone's usa codes work yet? | 16:54 |
| derf | penguinbait: No. | 16:54 |
| inz | bedboi, (less light, less brightness needed) | 16:54 |
| penguinbait | email sent out this morning with USA site | 16:54 |
| derf | penguinbait: I tried calling NokiaUSA, but unlike with the N800, this time the person refused to authorize the code anyway. | 16:54 |
| Tak | thread on the list looks like nobody's gotten it to work | 16:54 |
| penguinbait | but it dont work yet, still zero balance | 16:54 |
| Sho_ | Now I tried calling to Nokia premium service shops to figure out whether I might be able to replace the defective unit locally. Of course they don't pick up the phone either, just as the Nokia shop itself. Man, Nokia, as a company, really must hate telephones. | 16:54 |
| derf | You may have better luck if you get a different sales rep. | 16:54 |
| penguinbait | hopefully soon | 16:54 |
| Nermal | I wonder if they all have to have the nokia ringtone in the office | 16:55 |
| derf | I leave the country in 3 business days. | 16:55 |
| derf | I don't hold out any hope. | 16:55 |
| penguinbait | I thought it was saying it was available, danm | 16:55 |
| Nermal | penguinbait, now you've done kde, can you port gnome to the n800 please ? kthxbye | 16:55 |
| derf | You and... everyone else. | 16:55 |
| pierlux | I installed telepathy-idle but the IRC protocol doesn't show in the new account list | 16:55 |
| j0tt | Sho_: they work with phones all day - that's why they hate them :).. have you tried to call the main number of nokia gmbh? | 16:55 |
| Sho_ | j0tt: Not yet | 16:56 |
| Veggen | derf: Well. Idealistically, I'd like it to pay off to be environment friendly. | 16:56 |
| penguinbait | Nermal, I trie gnome first | 16:56 |
| Veggen | derf: It's not certain it's doable, though ;) | 16:56 |
| penguinbait | and you got KDE? | 16:56 |
| penguinbait | so dont hold your breath, not from me anyway | 16:57 |
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| j0tt | Sho_: 0234-984-0 they answered really fast, but did not feel responsible (regarding discount codes)... anyway if you insist (politely) of beeing connected to someone they might be able to do so.. | 16:57 |
| Sho_ | j0tt: hmkay | 16:58 |
| Tak | eh, greed-based incentives to act in the public good are failures | 16:58 |
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| Nermal | penguinbait, ah :| | 16:58 |
| Veggen | Sho: I did walk into an official Nokia service center in Norway with my n770 w/WSOD. They hadn't seen such a unit before, wasn't at all sure what to do with it. But they took it in, and I got it back fixed in the end... ;) | 16:58 |
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| Veggen | Sho: Not sure it was the quickest way, though :) | 16:59 |
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| * Tak glad I've avoided WSOD so far | 17:00 | |
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| mazzen | any german discount program participant here, who got already the n810? | 17:01 |
| nomis | mazzen: yeah, here. | 17:02 |
| nomis | mazzen: got mine today. | 17:02 |
| mazzen | huh, that's a fast answer :) | 17:02 |
| mazzen | me too | 17:02 |
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| mazzen | did you got a strange bill, too? | 17:02 |
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| nomis | mazzen: you mean the Lieferschein? | 17:03 |
| mazzen | price: 459 euro - discount = 459 + 4 euro porto | 17:03 |
| mazzen | yes | 17:03 |
| nomis | mazzen: yeah, thats a bit weird. The online invoice is "correct" though. | 17:04 |
| nomis | (I am unsure if it really was intentional to have a 100% discount) | 17:04 |
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| mazzen | yes, that's the point | 17:04 |
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| mazzen | i'm really unsure to open the package. | 17:05 |
| mazzen | wich is *not* easy for me :) | 17:05 |
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| nomis | mazzen: pff. The invoice is what matters, you have an Auftragsbestätigung which is kind of legally binding to Nokia. | 17:06 |
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| j0tt | nomis: that's exactly what i think | 17:07 |
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| mazzen | hm... then i guess this gonna be a nice weekend :) | 17:07 |
| nomis | mazzen: :) | 17:07 |
| Khertan | (I am unsure if it really was intentional to have a 100% discount) it was not ... they cancel delivery ... and try to get back device which has been delivered | 17:08 |
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| Khertan | they give me a new code... and now it s 99Euro .... | 17:08 |
| Khertan | +s | 17:09 |
| nomis | Khertan: pity. | 17:09 |
| nomis | Khertan: I'll wait for a contact from Nokia. They have a lot of convincing to do for me to hand that back in. | 17:09 |
| mazzen | depends on if we every be a part of the developer program nomis ;-) | 17:09 |
| Khertan | nomis: i ve contacted him ... because i ve ordered mine in express delivery one week ago ... and still no news ... | 17:10 |
| Jaffa | You could always offer to pay the difference, but I wouldn't send the device back once I got it | 17:10 |
| vegai | perhaps you guys are just better than the rest of us | 17:10 |
| j0tt | offering the difference would be *very* generous under german law ;) | 17:11 |
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| Jaffa | j0tt: indeed, but as an act of good faith for any future discount programmes ;-) | 17:11 |
| Khertan | but it s because i ve asked ... else i still have no news ... ! | 17:11 |
| j0tt | Jaffa: yeah, but as we all know the local stores do not even know of such programs :P | 17:12 |
| Jaffa | j0tt: true :) | 17:12 |
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| Nermal | how do you reset the device lock code if you don't know it ? | 17:12 |
| ustunozgur | 12345 | 17:13 |
| Nermal | it's not that :| | 17:13 |
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| Nermal | I bought mine off ebay and the guy doesn't know what the code is :| | 17:13 |
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| alterego | That's unfortunate. | 17:13 |
| alterego | Post on itt or the users mailing list. | 17:13 |
| Nermal | hum | 17:14 |
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| Tak | I think that happened to someone else (or maybe it was you), and someone from nokia was saying that it has to be done by nokia | 17:15 |
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| alterego | That's unfortunate. | 17:17 |
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| Tak | well - it kind of makes sense - you shouldn't be able to steal a locked device and just reflash it | 17:19 |
| Lynoure | hmm, I'm trying to flash my N800, but despite it being charged full, pluggish it into charger just starts charging again, and does not switch it on. And flasher does not detect it, but keeps waiting | 17:20 |
| Lynoure | pressing home+power starts it, but no green bar, no detecting and no messages about flashing, just a normal startup... | 17:20 |
| Tak | are you connected through a hub? | 17:20 |
| Lynoure | no. there is a hub connected, but the N800 is connected directly to the laptop | 17:21 |
| derf | Lynoure: Unplug it, wait for the backlight to turn off, and then turn it on. | 17:22 |
| Lynoure | with the home+power combo? | 17:24 |
| fysa | do you see the USB/disk mode icon? | 17:24 |
| Lynoure | fysa: yes, I did see that, earlier, when I did home+power boot, but then it just continued with blue bar and normal home view | 17:25 |
| Lynoure | derf: or just power, no home? | 17:25 |
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| derf | Lynoure: I've never pressed home while doing it, but who knows if it mattes. | 17:26 |
| alterego | Anyone know if it's possible to have a lock code for when the device is turned on? | 17:26 |
| Lynoure | derf: all instructions seem to say it is required, but trying without now. | 17:27 |
| Lynoure | derf: just got a normal startup. :/ | 17:27 |
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| Lynoure | it shows usb icon in the status bar, but flasher is not detecting it | 17:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll do it without, doing it with Home key just makes it wait for the flasher. | 17:29 |
| alterego | Lynoure, you have to restart it :P | 17:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plugged into a hub? | 17:29 |
| lardman|gone | i think home only makes a difference if the kernel is already running (because it's charging) | 17:29 |
| Lynoure | alterego: again? | 17:29 |
| Lynoure | alterego: the N800? or the flasher? | 17:29 |
| alterego | Lynoure, it shouldn't be booted up. | 17:29 |
| * lardman|gone goes again | 17:29 | |
| Lynoure | alterego: it was not. | 17:29 |
| derf | Right, I thought Home was for when it was plugged in. | 17:29 |
| alterego | It should hang on the "Nokia" screen. | 17:29 |
| Lynoure | alterego: it does not... I wish it did | 17:29 |
| alterego | You have to hold down the home key .. | 17:30 |
| alterego | Or at least, I always seem to have needed to. | 17:30 |
| Lynoure | Tried that too, first two times | 17:30 |
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| Lynoure | But I'll try again. | 17:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | With the device completely off, press and hold the Home key. While still holding the home key, power the device up. | 17:30 |
| alterego | Make sure it's not plugged into the charger. | 17:30 |
| Lynoure | it was not, but I'll try again | 17:33 |
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| Lynoure | how long should I keep holding it? | 17:34 |
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| Lynoure | >2min now, no detection, no bar of any color | 17:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is flasher running? | 17:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is the USB logo in the upper corner? | 17:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can let go if the device is waiting. | 17:36 |
| Lynoure | yes, and yes | 17:37 |
| Lynoure | but still Suitable USB device not found, waiting | 17:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | You have it plugged directly into the machine? | 17:37 |
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| Lynoure | yes | 17:38 |
| bmidgley | I got another email about USA store & discount code but the code still doesn't work I guess... | 17:38 |
| Lynoure | even unplugged the hub it was not plugged through at any point | 17:38 |
| Lynoure | no trace of it in lsusb, either. | 17:38 |
| Nermal | wewt - found the lock code :D | 17:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then there's a wiring problem. | 17:38 |
| Lynoure | I used that cable earlier today, worked ok, and same with the usb port | 17:39 |
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| Khertan | Please respond to this maemo post with complaints: | 17:39 |
| Khertan | http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html | 17:39 |
| Khertan | it was a texrat citation. | 17:40 |
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| derf | "ERROR The requested URL could not be retrieved" | 17:41 |
| derf | Perfect. | 17:41 |
| Khertan | ? | 17:41 |
| derf | Their caching proxy or whatever that's always messing up maemo.org. | 17:41 |
| Lynoure | Weird, picky baby this N800, different port&cable did help, nevertheless | 17:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody poured water on maemo's paper-mache house. | 17:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then something was wrong with the port/cable. | 17:42 |
| derf | Just to make sure you can't even complain. | 17:43 |
| Lynoure | but, hmm, not much: USB device found found at bus 004, device address 009 | 17:43 |
| Lynoure | Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy | 17:43 |
| Nermal | Tak, alterego : combination of cat, some devices in /dev and a hex editor let me find it :) | 17:43 |
| Khertan | i ve complain ... work for me | 17:43 |
| Lynoure | However, it looks flashed. Weird. | 17:43 |
| bedboi | inz: in order to get the value in the sysfs updated you have to close and reopen the file | 17:44 |
| bedboi | inz: otherwise the value don't get updated (even if you seek) | 17:44 |
| Khertan | i think i ll port xbill with the nokia logo instead of bill | 17:45 |
| giskard | cool | 17:45 |
| giskard | it seams that | 17:45 |
| Khertan | so we can kill nokia ..... ! | 17:45 |
| giskard | with the italian language i can't play video /hear music | 17:45 |
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| crashanddie | Hey, I'm having some problems while trying to upgrade the OS on the n800 | 17:48 |
| alterego | I like the way it sometimes takes be 3 times to use the slide lock. | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | http://slexy.org/view/s24yBArAGu | 17:49 |
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| crashanddie | anyone ? | 17:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | You have to be more assertive, alterego. :P | 17:50 |
| alterego | Just took four times then :P | 17:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | sudo, crashanddie. | 17:51 |
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| dragorn | crashanddie: you need -F to tell it the fiasco image | 17:51 |
| dragorn | crashanddie: flasher3 -F image -f | 17:51 |
| crashanddie | oh right | 17:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | That, too. | 17:51 |
| dragorn | GeneralAntilles: I don't think they need sudo, it's binding to USB and finding the device, just didn't tell it to do anything :) All depends how your udev perms are set up and what groups you're in. I set mine up to not require sudo since I don't like running random binaries as root. | 17:52 |
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| giskard | Jaffa, n810 + adho + masquerade doesn't work | 17:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | True, true. | 17:53 |
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| Blafasel | So, anyone here using the N810 with IP over DNS tools? That would be really neat and I think I saw some packages for that. | 17:54 |
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| dieman | Was trying to use the US discount code at the url just sent to me, and its not working :| | 17:58 |
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| kbsingh | is there a decent Calendar app with a ToDo and issue tracker for the os2008 platform ? | 17:59 |
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| kbsingh | dieman: sounds like something for the lists :D | 18:00 |
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| crashanddie | ok well thanks for that :) | 18:03 |
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| dieman | kbsingh: yeah... | 18:06 |
| dieman | kbsingh: sounds like someone else has already bugged people at letstalk and nokia about it from what i can see | 18:06 |
| kbsingh | not sure dude | 18:06 |
| dieman | forgot about the lists :) | 18:06 |
| kbsingh | i got my device at the full price : | 18:06 |
| dieman | heh | 18:06 |
| * kbsingh isnt really contributing anything into the maemo stuff at the moment. | 18:06 | |
| kbsingh | might change that sometimes oon | 18:06 |
| kbsingh | but it all boils down to time and how much we can really do and when we can do it | 18:07 |
| kbsingh | got my fingers in quite deep into a couple of other open source projects, and trying to kick start another one | 18:07 |
| dieman | wow cool, the light sensor is in hwmon | 18:08 |
| dieman | that sounds fun | 18:08 |
| alterego | Shit, my internal memory is full! | 18:08 |
| Nermal | :D | 18:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | NITs are bad places to keep porn. | 18:10 |
| alterego | I mean the MTD memory, that holds the OS. | 18:12 |
| alterego | All my porn is on SD | 18:12 |
| alterego | Found the culprit, maemo mapper was using internal flash :/ | 18:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 18:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I did that once. | 18:13 |
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| dieman | heh | 18:14 |
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| nelson | dieman: not working for me either. oops. I'm sure they're working on fixing it. | 18:27 |
| pupnik_ | now that i have a gps i have the urge to go somewhere | 18:27 |
| Khertan | http://khertan.net/ | 18:28 |
| Khertan | read the news ... | 18:28 |
| Khertan | have a good week end ... bye | 18:28 |
| Tak | heh | 18:30 |
| Tak | I'm not really down with all the whining and ultimatums | 18:30 |
| pupnik_ | the dpad isn't as bad as i feared - plenty useful for not-fast games | 18:30 |
| Tak | or are they ultimata ? | 18:30 |
| johnx | ultimatii? | 18:31 |
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| pupnik_ | my whining timing was funny. whined about no feedback, and the next day qgil gave us feedback. called the nokia store about the missing codes and the next day the codes were active | 18:32 |
| pupnik_ | i do note that my N810 is not nearly as loud as the 770 (front facing, larger speaker) | 18:34 |
| pupnik_ | so headphones would be required in an environment with a bit of ambient noise | 18:34 |
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| Spakman | alterego: does ruby-maemo have any ability to display (basic) HTML on a widget? | 18:35 |
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| alterego | Spakman, 0.4.1 will, | 18:36 |
| alterego | I'm including support for gtkmozembed. | 18:36 |
| Spakman | alterego: excellent news! | 18:37 |
| nelson | Veggen: by the way, it can be less polluting to ship something on a huge container ship, then put it on a railroad, than to drive it 100 miles on a truck. | 18:38 |
| Spakman | alterego: any idea how far away the newer version is (not wanting to hassle...) | 18:38 |
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| zoran | someone connected to yahoo imap server successfuly? | 18:40 |
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| alterego | Spakman, I'm hoping to do it this weekend. So somewhere inbetween Monday and Wednesday. | 18:41 |
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| Spakman | alterego: great news, thanks again for all your work on this | 18:45 |
| alterego | That's okay :) I like doing it | 18:45 |
| alterego | And the N810 for 70 pounds is a nice reward for my work ^_^ | 18:45 |
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| terraces | hi. anyone from france that had the n810 discount code here ? | 18:46 |
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| pupnik | terraces: search internettablettalk.com for 'discount code' | 18:47 |
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| terraces | pupnik: actually I already browsed it, but I was looking if someone was there | 18:48 |
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| terraces | apparently nokia made an error in discount code and asked the tablet back from UPS | 18:48 |
| terraces | I'm in that case .. :/ | 18:48 |
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| pupnik | terraces, the user 'khertan' is in france, but he has left IRC tonight | 18:49 |
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| terraces | ok thanks pupnik I'll try to catch him there | 18:49 |
| zaheerm | terraces, i know someone who had that issue, order got cancelled...from the spanish shop | 18:50 |
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| terraces | zaheerm: also because they made a mistake in the amount of the discount code ? | 18:53 |
| terraces | I'm not sure this practice of cancelling is legal (at least in france) | 18:53 |
| maddler | is it me? or is someone else experiencing posts doing back and forth on planet.maemo.org? | 18:54 |
| maddler | there were some new posts a few minutes ago... | 18:54 |
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| maddler | but now they disappeared... | 18:55 |
| zaheerm | terraces, no he was told that they didn't know the reason on the phone | 18:55 |
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| terraces | zaheerm: do you know if he had another code ? | 18:55 |
| zaheerm | no just one... | 18:55 |
| zaheerm | oh i think he was given a longer code before | 18:56 |
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| zaheerm | his new one was shorter | 18:56 |
| terraces | for the same amount? | 18:57 |
| zaheerm | no idea, he didn't use the long code...only the short one | 18:57 |
| zaheerm | i have a feeling that nokia don't actually run the shops | 18:58 |
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| script | yay, n810 arrived | 18:59 |
| script | *building openvpn* | 18:59 |
| pupnik | oh and i don't agree with people who don't like the keyboard. works fine for me | 18:59 |
| pupnik | <- fat thumbs | 18:59 |
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| maddler | pupnik: indeed... :) | 19:00 |
| maddler | even if a "alt" key would have been useful... :D | 19:00 |
| maddler | btw... ttl here... | 19:00 |
| zaheerm | pupnik, same, the keyboard size works well for me | 19:01 |
| |R | w | 19:01 |
| pupnik | pushing 'up' on the dpad does require using edge-of-thumb for me though | 19:01 |
| |R | oops... what is the url for the US code? | 19:01 |
| Cord | 1800, friday. no ups. no n810 | 19:01 |
| pupnik | but that's doable too | 19:01 |
| |R | (wondering if it would be useable for canada..) | 19:01 |
| pupnik | Cord: when did they ship it? | 19:02 |
| pupnik | Mine arrived not with ups but some other package service | 19:02 |
| script | whats the standard-way of becoming root nowadays? | 19:03 |
| |R | ssh in? | 19:03 |
| Cord | pupnik: 9.1. according to website. | 19:03 |
| pupnik | ok same here | 19:04 |
| Cord | pupnik: no ups, no other parcel service. | 19:04 |
| Cord | pupnik: where do you live? | 19:04 |
| pupnik | butzbach, hessen | 19:04 |
| Cord | and Sho_? | 19:05 |
| Sho_ | Cord: Berlin | 19:05 |
| Cord | hm. | 19:06 |
| * Cord in Gütersloh. | 19:06 | |
| Sho_ | Cord: Ordered on Wednesday, got shipping notice at around 16:30, arrived on Friday noon via GLS (not UPS) | 19:06 |
| script | great .. openssh-server asks for root-pw at install time .. very nice indead | 19:07 |
| * nomis today in Siegen. | 19:07 | |
| Cord | GLS...# | 19:08 |
| Cord | nomis, pupnik: do you know which parcel service delivered for you? | 19:08 |
| nomis | Cord: GLS | 19:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | script, is that sarcasm? It's asking you to set one. | 19:10 |
| script | GeneralAntilles: that's what i said .. no? | 19:12 |
| script | GeneralAntilles: i like it | 19:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sarcasm doesn't translate well over text. | 19:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | (well, lack of, here. :)) | 19:13 |
| sp3000 | we should ban non-sarcastic comments on irc! :) | 19:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, great idea. . . . | 19:14 |
| script | yay, that was painless | 19:14 |
| script | Fri Jan 11 18:14:08 2008 Initialization Sequence Completed | 19:14 |
| penguinbait | wow people downloaded 40206447 kilobytes = 39264.1084 megabytes = 38GB of KDE files yesterday alone | 19:15 |
| j0tt | Cord: i got mine via UPS (Berlin) | 19:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damn bloated KDE. . . . | 19:15 |
| Cord | j0tt: Express? or Standard? | 19:16 |
| j0tt | express | 19:16 |
| penguinbait | for 6$ per month, no wonder the website is having problems :) | 19:16 |
| Cord | yea. my two collegues that choose Express also got it by ups. | 19:16 |
| pupnik | wow penguinbait | 19:16 |
| wusel_ | .oO( express rulez. sorry, cord ) | 19:16 |
| Cord | wusel_ :-P | 19:16 |
| wusel_ | 8 EUR well spend from my point of view; would've gone mad after all those time and knowing that baby stays in a parcel somewhere over the weekend ... OTOH, I would have bet on standard being delivered the same day as express did, i. e. one day after shipment. | 19:19 |
| wusel_ | these nokia shop guys are strange :( | 19:19 |
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| j0tt | indeed.. GLS is really dangerous sometimes.. giving a package to some nearby store and putting the receipt outside on the front door (in berlin!).. happened more than once... | 19:21 |
| thefool | j0tt: are you afraid someone is going to comeup, take the recipet and pick up your package? | 19:23 |
| thefool | wow, can't spell today... | 19:23 |
| j0tt | thefool: that would be quite possible... | 19:23 |
| j0tt | i was never asked for a passport or id when taking packages from a complete stranger.. | 19:24 |
| wusel_ | ;) DHL like to put parcels on my terrace, without putting a paper into the mailbox ... Easter the whole year over, sort of ;) | 19:24 |
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| thefool | j0tt: There are people with bars over their windows and doors not 10 miles from where I live, but I have never worried about a package just sitting on my front door for hours on end...kind of stupid now that I think about it | 19:25 |
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| penguinbait | 38GB downloaded yesterday and 44GB the day before, holy crap! KDE fiends out here :) | 19:29 |
| alterego | Not really, it's just f*cking big :P | 19:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 19:35 |
| jott | while true; do wget ...; rm ..; done :P | 19:36 |
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| alterego | Heh | 19:41 |
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| |tbb| | could anyone tell me why top > bla.log will log top proccess list and top > bla.log & will not log anything? | 19:42 |
| jott | |tbb|: i guess "top -b" is the way to go.. | 19:43 |
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| skibur | I have seen the darkside of programming.... And I love it!!! | 19:44 |
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| inz | jott, don't do that download loop, -O /dev/null is better | 19:45 |
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| truent | alterego, how's maemo.rubyx goin? | 19:45 |
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| inz | penguin, I get that much traffic in 10 weeks =) | 19:46 |
| truent | ahh i see its up | 19:46 |
| truent | skibur, darkside =? | 19:46 |
| alterego | truent, back up now :) | 19:47 |
| alterego | :) | 19:47 |
| truent | nice | 19:47 |
| truent | hey i took another look at ruby-dbus.. its not so bad.. | 19:48 |
| truent | only wacky thing was non introspectable objects | 19:48 |
| skibur | reverse engineering | 19:48 |
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| alterego | Yeah, I might attempt to intergrate it with OSSO | 19:49 |
| alterego | intergr8 | 19:49 |
| truent | skibur, heh whatcha workin on? | 19:49 |
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| truent | alterego, i just made a lil wrapper.. method_missing to make method calls on non introspectable objects.. but the introspectable ones are set up | 19:50 |
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| truent | probably in a similar manner | 19:50 |
| skibur | Linux on the Wii | 19:50 |
| skibur | :P | 19:50 |
| truent | lol | 19:50 |
| truent | anyone else read linux format? | 19:50 |
| truent | mag from the uk | 19:50 |
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| script | has anyone got the SIP client working with asterisk? | 19:51 |
| Jaffa | Anyone tried the ACID-3 pre-release test on microb? | 19:51 |
| skibur | :( KDE looks like Windows Vista GUI | 19:51 |
| skibur | New KDE 4.0 that is | 19:52 |
| skibur | Just came out today | 19:52 |
| truent | script, was wondering about that | 19:52 |
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| alterego | Well, maybe you can do it then :P | 19:52 |
| alterego | skibur, KDE has always looked like Windows :P | 19:53 |
| inz | kde has always looked ugly | 19:53 |
| inz | and they still do | 19:53 |
| alterego | It's all that g*y blue .. | 19:53 |
| * alterego agrees with inz | 19:53 | |
| skibur | :P | 19:53 |
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| wumpus | I like the kde look.. for about an hour, then I want a simple, fast window manager back :) | 19:54 |
| alterego | KDE developers should have just worked on Win. | 19:54 |
| alterego | ~Wine .. | 19:54 |
| * infobot pours .. a glass of the very best pinot noir from the cellar | 19:54 | |
| truent | alterego, well in the process of making my program i needed some dbus functionality.. i'll letcha take a look at it when i'm done and maybe you can refine that part of it for use | 19:54 |
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| alterego | truent, cool. I'll be interested to see it. | 19:55 |
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| skibur | I will bring back the old school Desktop environment.... Linux + Windows 3.11 | 19:55 |
| truent | k | 19:55 |
| skibur | Anybody wanna start the project with me | 19:55 |
| skibur | ??? | 19:55 |
| skibur | :D | 19:55 |
| truent | i'd go back to pre gnome days | 19:55 |
| jott | fvwm95? :) | 19:55 |
| truent | when enlightenment was brand new | 19:56 |
| skibur | lol agree | 19:56 |
| skibur | I stick with brand old environments | 19:56 |
| skibur | lol | 19:56 |
| truent | heh i remember when the communist debian came out | 19:56 |
| truent | ;p | 19:56 |
| skibur | Wow I thought I was the only one to remember | 19:57 |
| truent | err became popular i should say | 19:57 |
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| alterego | I don't like the N810 case. | 19:57 |
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| alterego | It's a bit crappy.. | 19:57 |
| Jaffa | The pouch or the device? | 19:57 |
| truent | alterego, looks good in magazines ;p | 19:57 |
| alterego | I think a tan real leather version of it would be good .. | 19:57 |
| alterego | The case, not the device. | 19:58 |
| truent | ahh the case case | 19:58 |
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| Jaffa | The device has a case. Stops the insides falling out ;-p | 19:58 |
| * Jaffa foods.\ | 19:58 | |
| alterego | The devices is the sexiest piece of electronics I've ever held :) | 19:58 |
| alterego | Lucky it fits into all my pockets. | 19:58 |
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| alterego | Try getting the N800 or 770 into a shirt chest pocket .., | 19:59 |
| corona | hooray - N810 arrived today (germany, wrong numbers all over in the Lieferschein, Standard-Delivery) - just for the record | 19:59 |
| truent | im not buying one i dont care what you say | 19:59 |
| truent | ;p | 19:59 |
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| alterego | I would not have bought one if I'd failed to get accepted into the device program. | 19:59 |
| skibur | Pictures in 4 sections of KDE 4.0 ----> http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/guide.php | 20:00 |
| czr | yeah, just like me! although I didn't even apply :-) | 20:00 |
| czr | hey alterego | 20:00 |
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| alterego | Hey czr :) | 20:00 |
| alterego | I got an N810 :D | 20:00 |
| skibur | It looks like a JEET KUN DO of Windows Vista and MAC OS | 20:00 |
| alterego | Woah, KDE looks _really_ ugly .. | 20:00 |
| pupnik | corona: i saw one wrong number on the lieferschein - did they charge you the correct amount on the credit card? | 20:01 |
| skibur | yeah | 20:01 |
| alterego | skibur, I think that's the point .. | 20:01 |
| alterego | Unfortunately, | 20:01 |
| skibur | true | 20:01 |
| * alterego likes gnome. It's simple and elegant. | 20:01 | |
| * Tak 1"-punch skibur | 20:01 | |
| czr | alterego, me too. well. kind of. | 20:02 |
| czr | it's called N00, but you wouldn't notice the difference! :-) | 20:02 |
| * czr awaits for the next revision, the N00B | 20:02 | |
| * Tak preorder 52 copies | 20:02 | |
| alterego | Heh | 20:02 |
| corona | pupnik, will check as soon as possible - the store receipt (via mail) says it will be charged with just 5 EUR | 20:03 |
| * skibur shifts his weight applies a combo to Tak face | 20:03 | |
| alterego | czr, I'll do a swap if you like :P | 20:03 |
| czr | well. mine costs 125kE :-) | 20:03 |
| jott | and in the end, what this particular mail says counts .. | 20:03 |
| czr | so I'd better take it back at some point :-) | 20:03 |
| alterego | Hah | 20:03 |
| corona | pupnik, wrong number referred to "discount" 459 EUR + shipping equals 464 EUR ...makes really no sense ;) | 20:03 |
| pupnik | on mine, they listed the discount, but did not subtract it from the total | 20:04 |
| czr | anyhow, I'm back, maybe will take a look at some more bugs next week, now back to being sick -> | 20:04 |
| pupnik | i used a relative's card, so i hope i'm not in trouble :/ | 20:04 |
| jott | pupnik: but not in the confirmation mail... | 20:04 |
| corona | same here ... really poor software engineering on that nokia store if you ask me | 20:04 |
| jott | (that's the legally binding decleration of intention) | 20:05 |
| pupnik | the confirmation email shows the discount properly | 20:05 |
| alterego | Well, I have to work a bit more. To get some things out of the way. Then I'll have a lot more free time. | 20:06 |
| czr | ooh. just now I noticed the email on maemo-developers | 20:06 |
| corona | I agree - it states at the end of the email that it's a legally binding receipt - Nokia will have a had time dealing with CC companies if the charge differently | 20:07 |
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| henrique | what is this default browser used in maemo? | 20:08 |
| alterego | Right, time to punch out. | 20:08 |
| alterego | See yaz later folks. | 20:08 |
| alterego | Later czr | 20:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | henrique, which version? | 20:08 |
| johnx | henrique, microb based on gecko in 2008OS | 20:08 |
| henrique | GeneralAntilles, chinook, the one used in N810 | 20:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | MicroB | 20:08 |
| henrique | right, thanks | 20:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gecko | 20:09 |
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| giskard | cool | 20:13 |
| giskard | applicantion manger shows camera | 20:13 |
| giskard | but it can't be installed | 20:13 |
| giskard | :) | 20:13 |
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| |R | anyone has camera 3.4 installed and have it rebooting the device when launched or after a while in it? | 20:21 |
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| wnd | not causing reboots here | 20:26 |
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| elb | I love letstalk.com (Nokia's US shop): "In order to make sure this phone will work where you live, we need to check your location. This is because different cellular companies use different technologies (such as GSM, CDMA and TDMA) and the phone hardware has to be designed to work on that particular type of network." | 20:28 |
| inz | elv, let (us) stalk (you).com? | 20:29 |
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| mgedmin | whee! | 20:30 |
| Blafasel | Hmpf.. Still waiting for my confirmation that the N810 arrived safely in NY for me. CircuitCity claims that it is shipped.. | 20:31 |
| fugitivo | code still not working in USA | 20:32 |
| Blafasel | Mine's fullprice anyway.. | 20:32 |
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| derf | elb: I loved how everyone I spoke to on the phone there first asked me for my mobile number. | 20:33 |
| Blafasel | I hope I didn't steal one of the subsidized gadgets of yours by buying one as a regular user ;) | 20:33 |
| derf | Never minding that this _is_ the US, and we call them cell phones, they didn't seem to believe me when I told them I didn't have one. | 20:34 |
| Blafasel | Huh? You really don't own one or just no Nokia? | 20:34 |
| derf | I really don't own one. | 20:34 |
| script | why is my mediaplayer not working .... | 20:35 |
| Blafasel | Why oh why? | 20:35 |
| Blafasel | Couldn't live without it.. | 20:35 |
| derf | (The best was when I told the guy I didn't have a mobile number, and he goes, "Okay, what's your cell phone number?") | 20:35 |
| Blafasel | Hrhr.. Well, you _did_ cirticize the "mobile" naming here. | 20:35 |
| elb | derf: hah | 20:35 |
| derf | Blafasel: I don't mind people calling them mobiles, it just sounds odd in America. | 20:36 |
| Blafasel | So that probably happens over and over again.. "I have no _mobile_ number. I might be able to provide you with my _cell phone_ (insulting emphasis here) number though" ;) | 20:36 |
| derf | Like they're reading off a script written by Europeans that nobody has thought to adapt. | 20:36 |
| script | arg ... i just "rebooted" that damn thing .... and my ssh is still open?! and the uptime is 2hours? | 20:36 |
| script | wtf? | 20:36 |
| Blafasel | derf: Guess what, Germany calls them "Handy (s) or Handys (pl)" in a pseudo-english fashion | 20:36 |
| pupnik | the germans call cell phones 'handys' which is . | 20:37 |
| derf | Blafasel: I just assumed he was used to stupid users not knowing what he was talking about until he used the word "cell". | 20:37 |
| pupnik | haha | 20:37 |
| Blafasel | pupnik: ;) | 20:37 |
| inz | script, did you have charger connected? | 20:37 |
| script | inz: yes | 20:37 |
| inz | script, then the device doesn't really shut down | 20:37 |
| Blafasel | We have some pretty retarded names here, yes. In switzerland they are "Natel"s, something build from (probably) national telephone | 20:37 |
| script | inz: wow ... | 20:37 |
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| script | inz: why the fuck? | 20:38 |
| derf | But it was still funny that he didn't _start_ with the cell question, if that was really the case. | 20:38 |
| inz | script, because the charging UI uses X ;) | 20:38 |
| script | inz: oh, ok ;) | 20:38 |
| script | i just couldn't believe that ;) | 20:38 |
| Blafasel | Okay, need to get a beer or two. I hope I'll get my "The N810 arrived safely" confirmation tomorrow. | 20:39 |
| script | so that didn't fix the mediaplayer eighter ;) | 20:39 |
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| johnx | heh, well now I have a debian armel chroot wedged onto an SD card on my N800 | 20:41 |
| johnx | still no closer to figuring out what's wrong with A2DP though | 20:42 |
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| penguinbait | anyone reccomend a good, cheap hosting | 20:47 |
| penguinbait | not sure that good and cheap go together that well :( | 20:48 |
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| penguinbait | oh, with lots of bandwidth | 20:48 |
| dragorn | johnx: The only way I've used a2dp is with alsa | 20:50 |
| dragorn | johnx: and not on the nokia | 20:50 |
| johnx | dragorn, oh, I know how to use it...heh | 20:50 |
| johnx | It doesn't perform as well as I was expecting it to, so I've been trying to track down why | 20:51 |
| Tak | mgedmin: I would like to congratulate you on your new tactic of coercing devs into using garage extras. | 20:51 |
| mgedmin | oh? | 20:51 |
| mgedmin | the "I won't use your software if you won't upload to extras" one? | 20:51 |
| mgedmin | I'm not entirely sure it's effective | 20:51 |
| skibur | :) | 20:52 |
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| skibur | penguinbait, which one are you using now? | 20:53 |
| Tak | if more users do it, it will become effective | 20:53 |
| Tak | alterego: you should move the ruby stuff to garage extras already :-P | 20:53 |
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| johnx | Tak, any chance of getting a link to some info about the whole "getting things in extras" process? | 20:57 |
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| Tak | johnx: http://maemo.org/community/application-catalog/extras_repository.html | 20:59 |
| johnx | thanks | 20:59 |
| script | hm, why isn't repository.maemo.org (without extras) not in the default-package list? | 20:59 |
| Tak | I thought it was in the list, but disabled by default? | 20:59 |
| script | no it isnt | 20:59 |
| script | extras is disabled | 20:59 |
| inz | it's meant for the dev env, not for the device | 21:00 |
| script | but there are some nice things in it .. | 21:00 |
| script | netcat for example | 21:00 |
| script | and it would be stupid to take it and put it into extras/ wouldnt it? | 21:00 |
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| inz | People who need netcat surely can add the repo | 21:00 |
| mgedmin | personally I wouldn't mind | 21:00 |
| script | and what if there are deps in it that are needed by some extra apps? | 21:01 |
| script | same stupid process would be neccessary | 21:01 |
| mgedmin | stuff that's useful both in the sdk and on the device ought to be available in both repos | 21:01 |
| inz | script, chinook allows you to define multiple repos in .install file | 21:01 |
| script | alright, that's what i will do ;) | 21:03 |
| script | (if it's intended or not ...) | 21:03 |
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| script | doesn't fix the issue when directly installing from app-manager, though | 21:03 |
| script | afk | 21:03 |
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| Tak | the bigger problem IMO is that a lot of stuff in extras depends on stuff in r.m.o | 21:06 |
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| johnx | 'night all | 21:10 |
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| Jaffa | Tak: indeed, it's a stupid situation. Once we get in-place upgrades, presumably the os2008 (or rather it's os2009 equivalent) will be full of device runnable software which can be depended on. | 21:12 |
| Tak | that would be nice | 21:13 |
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| henrique | is it possible to install the microb browser in maemo chinook? | 21:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | henrique, the browser in Chinook _IS_ MicroB | 21:24 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: I assume henrique means the SDL, not the device | 21:25 |
| mgedmin | err, SDK, not SDL | 21:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then no. | 21:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no x86 version of browser-ui. | 21:25 |
| mgedmin | and there's no source either, iirc | 21:25 |
| henrique | hmmm | 21:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right. | 21:26 |
| mgedmin | permission to release bogged down in lawyer-land somewhere, I've heard | 21:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wouldn't it be possible to write a new browser-ui? | 21:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems like it might be fairly straightforward with EAL | 21:26 |
| henrique | GeneralAntilles, and what about the armel target? should not be enough to run the application? | 21:27 |
| henrique | btw, in the site the package supplied is for bora, not chinook | 21:28 |
| milhouse | i'm about to file an enhancement request to disable the ambient light sensor (at least as far as dimming/undimming the display is concerned - it's driving me nuts) - anyone able to suggest the correct component in bugzilla? kernel? or control panel? | 21:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'd say control panel. | 21:28 |
| milhouse | ok ta GA | 21:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I'm frequently misguided on those things. ;) | 21:28 |
| fysa | Minefield. | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is bloated and slow. | 21:29 |
| milhouse | np - me too! :) can always be filed under the correct component later, assuming anyone from maemo.org reads it (are they back from holiday yet or still MIA?) | 21:29 |
| pupnik810 | hmm id like to disable this input method option that prompts words to click | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems like they're back | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia people have been doing things in there. | 21:29 |
| fysa | We need someone to take Minefield, strip it down, and build this in: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1250 | 21:30 |
| milhouse | pupnick - isn't that option already in control panel -> Text input? | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably Control Panel, pupnik810 | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, yeah. | 21:30 |
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| pupnik810 | heh thx | 21:30 |
| inz | milhouse, you might be able to disable it by moving/renaming a .so | 21:30 |
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| milhouse | GA: Would be nice to see some announcements acknowledgments of the problems we were left with over christmas | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody should get minefield working with EAL. | 21:30 |
| inz | milhouse, I just don't remember where it lives | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | milhouse, yeah . . . nice. | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha. | 21:31 |
| fysa | http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xp3mQGOQTzk <- firefox w/kinetic scrolling | 21:31 |
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| inz | milhouse, try find / -name '*als*.so' | 21:31 |
| milhouse | inz: that would be nice - it keeps on flip-flopping between dim and not so dim even when in bright light, and even when i stop myself from covering the sensor with my thumb | 21:31 |
| pupnik810 | hmm nope | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | The word suggestion bar is a major PITA with a BT keyboard. | 21:32 |
| keesj | funny how things change. the battery of the n810 really likes to fly | 21:32 |
| fysa | agreed, GA | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | It frequently disables the vkb and thumbboard when the BT keyboard disconnects. | 21:32 |
| milhouse | hmmm.. ./usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so looks like a prime candidate | 21:32 |
| fysa | you can turn it off for everything, but not just kb mode | 21:32 |
| fysa | I want environment-specific profiles. | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's like QC just completely forgot they were also releasing OS2008 for the N800. | 21:33 |
| milhouse | fysa: let's an enhancement request for that... let me get the ref | 21:33 |
| fysa | bt kb in, then use these settings | 21:33 |
| fysa | power in, use these settings | 21:33 |
| inz | milhouse, try to move it somewhere else and reboot or restart mce | 21:33 |
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| milhouse | inz: i'll give it a go, thanks! | 21:33 |
| fysa | I don't know. there are many things that would be nice to make this a more world-friendly device. | 21:33 |
| fysa | I would absolutely love a screensaver. | 21:33 |
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| inz | why? | 21:34 |
| fysa | but for certain times of the day. | 21:34 |
| milhouse | fysa: profiles -> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1046 | 21:34 |
| inz | Does the battery last too long? | 21:34 |
| milhouse | fysa: vote for it, or add a comment, or both :) | 21:34 |
| fysa | i.e., I plug it in on my coffee table during the day, the screensaver should be random photos from my collection | 21:34 |
| fysa | it becomes a photo frame.. | 21:34 |
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| milhouse | that kind of use case is covered in the above enhancement request... | 21:34 |
| fysa | I plug it in next to my bed at time, (i.e., say after 10pm) -- I can use a different 'screensaver' | 21:35 |
| fysa | i.e., a simple clock | 21:35 |
| milhouse | and that | 21:35 |
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| pupnik | build quality on the thinkoutside stowaway is totally chinese compared to N810 | 21:35 |
| milhouse | :) | 21:35 |
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| milhouse | pupnik - is that good or bad? | 21:35 |
| fysa | and have brightness automatically change based on scheduling.. | 21:35 |
| inz | fysa, combine that with geoclue position awareness, and you get a photo frame that shows your family pictures when at home and something else when at the mistress' | 21:35 |
| Tak | somebody made a power applet that lets you set different screen times based on the plugged state | 21:35 |
| fysa | then my device could be anything. wake me up in the morning with a radio stream.. | 21:35 |
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| Tak | would be simple to launch a photobook app right before plugging in | 21:36 |
| pupnik | milhouse: hehe | 21:36 |
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| fysa | with high brightness.. turn brightness down low at night, so it's bright enough to use as a real alarm clock.. | 21:36 |
| milhouse | please update bug 1046 with these suggestions :) | 21:36 |
| fysa | or just give me cron. | 21:36 |
| inz | fysa, what's wrong with alarmd ;) | 21:36 |
| fysa | then I can do any of these myself. ;) | 21:36 |
| milhouse | it's only got 28 votes... may not be enough to convince someone this is a useful request | 21:37 |
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| fysa | heck, I wouldn't mind an alarmd that let you run scripts. | 21:37 |
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| inz | fysa, sure it does allow you to run scripts | 21:37 |
| inz | fysa, it allows you to do a dbus call or to run a command | 21:37 |
| fysa | where is this configured? | 21:37 |
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| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: I once accidentally got the suggestion bar with a BT keyboard, but alt-tab'ing to another app and back got rid of it | 21:38 |
| fysa | Tak: 'simple,' maybe. but I don't want to do it every day, then it's just a chore. (albeit, a simple one) | 21:38 |
| inz | fysa, it's per-event, you need to add your event with libalarm | 21:38 |
| mgedmin | s/alt-tab'ing/switching/ | 21:38 |
| Tak | mgedmin meant: GeneralAntilles: I once accidentally got the suggestion bar with a BT keyboard, but switching to another app and back got rid of it | 21:38 |
| infobot | mgedmin meant: GeneralAntilles: I once accidentally got the suggestion bar with a BT keyboard, but switching to another app and back got rid of it | 21:38 |
| mgedmin | two bots? | 21:38 |
| GAN800 | Yeah, that's a sorta of fix, but it's still a PITA. | 21:38 |
| fysa | I mean, is there a config setting in the UI that I can use to create alarmd events? | 21:39 |
| fysa | or a text file I can add them to? | 21:39 |
| fysa | or do I need to write something that <includes> libalarm properly? | 21:39 |
| GAN800 | I want the thumbboard to not be buggy as hell. | 21:39 |
| inz | fysa, unfortunately there is no UI, I could make one... | 21:40 |
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| inz | fysa, I'll add it to my long and slow TODO-list ;) | 21:40 |
| Tak | hah - actually I wrote an infobot-inspired script that replaces regexen correctly ;-) | 21:40 |
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| fysa | how about an /etc/crontab 'importer' for alarmd? | 21:40 |
| jott | inz: the imaginary one?! :) | 21:40 |
| fysa | then we could just use a crontab UI to create a crontab and then import that | 21:41 |
| inz | jott, you mean iTODO? | 21:41 |
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| inz | jott, well, it's only in my head, so you can say it's imaginary | 21:41 |
| jott | yeah the modern approach handling tasks :) | 21:41 |
| fysa | http://www.kalab.com/freeware/pycron/pycron_screenshot.jpg | 21:41 |
| fysa | that interface would work for me. | 21:42 |
| inz | fysa, I was concidering that, but alarmd and cron work somewhat differently, so I never got to it | 21:42 |
| fysa | that is pycron | 21:42 |
| Tak | hmm, so vala is pretty cool | 21:42 |
| Tak | I just finished porting everything but the hildon-specific parts of xmaeme | 21:43 |
| fysa | vala? | 21:43 |
| fysa | ah | 21:43 |
| fysa | new lang | 21:43 |
| fysa | 'new' | 21:43 |
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| fysa | interesting. | 21:43 |
| Tak | newish - http://live.gnome.org/Vala | 21:43 |
| jott | Tak: does it handle the hildon stuff? | 21:44 |
| fysa | works with hildon? | 21:44 |
| fysa | http://live.gnome.org/Vala/HildonSample | 21:44 |
| jott | ah :) | 21:44 |
| Tak | jott, fysa: yes ;-) | 21:44 |
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| jott | i read about it some time ago. it looks quite interesting. | 21:45 |
| fysa | it's compiled too. | 21:45 |
| Tak | it might fit the bill for a high(er)-level-language that doesn't impose additional resource constraints (python, ruby) on the device | 21:45 |
| fysa | jesus this is really cool. | 21:45 |
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| fysa | requires gcc? | 21:46 |
| Jaffa | what's the compilation like in scratchbox? | 21:46 |
| jott | but i guess the "0.1.5" implies some uncomfortable glitches at some point ;) | 21:46 |
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| jott | fysa: yes | 21:46 |
| jott | it just creates c code afaik. | 21:46 |
| fysa | bluez/dbus nice | 21:47 |
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| Tak | my vala executable is ~3k smaller than my c executable | 21:47 |
| * Tak scratches head | 21:47 | |
| fysa | haha | 21:48 |
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| Tak | I must have reused a little more code | 21:48 |
| fysa | extra headers in a Makefile somewhere? | 21:48 |
| jott | Tak: stripped/optimization level/etc there are quite a few factors :) | 21:48 |
| Tak | they're both stripped, -O2 iirc | 21:49 |
| fysa | you did hildon by hand before? | 21:49 |
| jott | or different code :) | 21:49 |
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| fysa | how about memory? | 21:49 |
| fysa | Minefield w/Vala-based interface. | 21:50 |
| Tak | the vala one is a direct port of the C one with minimal changes | 21:50 |
| fysa | or core of | 21:50 |
| Tak | haven't checked memory yet, but I don't expect it to be substantially different | 21:50 |
| Tak | hmm, vala 1.5 requires glib 2.12 | 21:50 |
| Tak | what version of glib does chinook use? | 21:51 |
| cizarro | 2.10 afair | 21:51 |
| juergbi | Tak: only for the compiler, not for runtime | 21:51 |
| pupnik | stupid question - is there a camera snapshot app on the N810 by default? | 21:51 |
| pupnik | searching ... | 21:51 |
| Tak | ah, hello juergbi ;-) | 21:51 |
| Tak | what version for the runtime? | 21:51 |
| juergbi | hi Tak ;) | 21:51 |
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| juergbi | 2.10 should certainly work, it basically depends on what your code does | 21:52 |
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| pupnik | oh ok, 'camera'... | 21:52 |
| juergbi | if you use glib 2.12 functionality in your vala application, you obviously need glib 2.12 | 21:52 |
| juergbi | there is no runtime library, so no vala-specific min. version of glib necessary | 21:52 |
| Tak | I know I'm not using anything specific to glib > 2.8 | 21:52 |
| Tak | ah, that's cool | 21:52 |
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| fysa | someone should start a code snippet libary for maemo, specifically for vala snippets. | 21:53 |
| Tak | you don't happen to have some vala-1.5 packages built for bora or chinook, do you? ;-) | 21:53 |
| fysa | i.e., 'this will display an RSS feed in a window'' | 21:54 |
| fysa | (which, coincidentally, is a great application to replace) | 21:54 |
| * Tak post xmaeme code, "This will launch roms in a chosen emulator" :-P | 21:54 | |
| fysa | maybe I will mess with that. | 21:54 |
| juergbi | Tak: you mean to compile on the tablet itself? | 21:54 |
| Tak | I mean so that I can compile vala code inside scratchbox | 21:54 |
| fysa | I really want an RSS reader that is UI-native, but has "Share" and "Star" that hit Google Reader. | 21:54 |
| juergbi | Tak: no, i don't have such packages, it might be easiest to generate the c code in the normal system and then build the c code as usual for maemo | 21:55 |
| Tak | I suppose I could compile down to C, then compile the C...yeah | 21:55 |
| fysa | frustrating that we can't read and sync simultaneously :P | 21:55 |
| Tak | the vmware image that the indt guys distribute has vala preinstalled in the sbox, but I'm not using their image | 21:56 |
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| fysa | anything wrong with it for someone starting new? | 21:57 |
| Tak | it? | 21:57 |
| fysa | their image | 21:57 |
| Tak | not that I'm aware; I just didn't have the spare disk | 21:58 |
| fysa | cool | 21:58 |
| jott | shouldnt be to hard to make a vala deb.. | 21:58 |
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| juergbi | jott: vala is in debian for quite some time | 21:58 |
| Jaffa | jott: that'd be very cool | 21:58 |
| milhouse | inz: moving /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so seems to have done the trick - now the ambient light sensor thinks it's in permanent darkness! :) Has the side effect of preventing the boot progress bar from appearing which kind of suggests the boot scripts freak out now | 21:58 |
| Tak | hmm - I wonder if I could install the debian-armel packages | 21:59 |
| jott | juergbi: that's why i said this :) | 21:59 |
| * Tak tries, suspects he will b0rk scratchbox | 21:59 | |
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| pupnik | anybody else have a N810 where the speakers sound extremely distorted and about 1/3 as loud as a 770? | 22:03 |
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| moox | Hi there | 22:04 |
| moox | How can i replace the default mail app by modest? | 22:04 |
| djcb | moox, you can't | 22:05 |
| milhouse | pupnik: mine seems ok - no distortion, plenty loud enough | 22:05 |
| moox | Serious? | 22:05 |
| `0660 | yes | 22:06 |
| moox | Mmh | 22:06 |
| milhouse | moox: not yet anyway... modest is still very beta | 22:06 |
| moox | Ok, so i would be possiblewith clwws? | 22:06 |
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| milhouse | ok you got me there | 22:06 |
| djcb | in general, it's hard to replace the built-in apps | 22:07 |
| milhouse | i don't think the os is designed to allow alternative mail clients - once modest matures i'm sure the effort will be put in to allow that | 22:07 |
| `0660 | haven't tried it yet but i bet it's already more usable than the crappy default app :) | 22:07 |
| djcb | we hope we can think of some tricks to replace the default app | 22:07 |
| djcb | but right now.... | 22:08 |
| moox | The blue led is activated but my modest is closed... | 22:09 |
| Tak | meh, deb hell - might as well build source | 22:09 |
| djcb | moox, it checks your mail, even if it's isn't running | 22:09 |
| milhouse | The email client should be an optional install the same as Skype and Gizmo... i don't use email (mainly because the stock app is so bad) but if i don't need email I just don't install it. This might give more scope for alternative email clients. | 22:09 |
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| ulises | hello all | 22:10 |
| djcb | well i guess you can remove it in blue (or was it red) pill mode | 22:10 |
| moox | Djcb how can it check the mails if it doesn t run? | 22:10 |
| djcb | magic | 22:11 |
| milhouse | well i don't need to remove it - as i've never run out of memory yet - but that's not the ideal solution... it would be better if i have the choice of not installing anything, or installing the mail client of my choice | 22:11 |
| fysa | haha | 22:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Modest will be becoming the default mail app. | 22:11 |
| milhouse | one day. | 22:11 |
| djcb | no, every <n> minutes it starts, checks for new mail and then close again | 22:11 |
| milhouse | :) | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | moox, it uses the mail fetching daemon that the built-in client uses. | 22:11 |
| fysa | even modest seems a little heavy ;) | 22:11 |
| milhouse | djcb: wouldn't a small daemon be a better opion? although there is a mentality that says daemons are bad... | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It is a small daemon, afaik. | 22:12 |
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| fysa | I don't think it's "small" by any means | 22:12 |
| milhouse | why not leaving it running all the time rather than closing at the end? | 22:12 |
| moox | General : it use the deamon but with the config from modest? | 22:12 |
| djcb | milhouse, we have the alarm daemon, which is a bit like crond | 22:13 |
| fysa | I can't believe RSS reader is using 74MB | 22:13 |
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| milhouse | djcb: right, but why use? | 22:13 |
| milhouse | s/use/use it/ | 22:13 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: djcb: right, but why use it? | 22:13 |
| Tak | milhouse meant: djcb: right, but why use it? | 22:13 |
| milhouse | a long running, never ending daemon would be better, no? | 22:13 |
| hachi | why does it seem impossible to move windows on maemo? | 22:13 |
| Tak | because it is | 22:14 |
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| djcb | milhouse, well to no require you to have modest running all the time | 22:14 |
| milhouse | hachi: very easy to move on the home page :) (unfortunately) | 22:14 |
| fysa | where are maemo-launcher pids stored again? | 22:14 |
| hachi | what's this thing it does when I tap on the top of windows? | 22:14 |
| hachi | I see the border of the window very clearly | 22:14 |
| hachi | plus the window behind it | 22:14 |
| moox | Have 2 go.bye | 22:15 |
| hachi | sorta like... how things look when you move windows | 22:15 |
| milhouse | djcb: i'd have thought it wouldn't need the whole of modest, just something to check a post box but maybe it needs most of the modest/tiny-mail libs... I don't know really, just seems overkill loading an app, then unloading it | 22:15 |
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| Tak | hachi: it just hides the window so you can see what's behind | 22:15 |
| djcb | milhouse, well, it doesn't start the UI etc., it's pretty minimal | 22:16 |
| `0660 | and a battery drainer... | 22:16 |
| milhouse | ok - i assume both options have been considered and this is the least "expensive" option in terms of cpu/battery/peformance etc. | 22:16 |
| fysa | /usr/bin/maemo-launcher--daemon--send-app-died--boostergtk--quiet | 22:16 |
| fysa | this is using 70MB | 22:16 |
| djcb | milhouse: i guess so.... but you're free to come with suggestions / patches of course :) | 22:17 |
| hachi | any of you able to use xchat on OS2008? when I solve the dependancy problems that I can, it wants to remove some of the core apps | 22:17 |
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| milhouse | djcb: :) | 22:17 |
| fysa | modest is C? | 22:18 |
| djcb | fysa, yes | 22:18 |
| fysa | 1744 user 65284 SW /usr/bin/modest | 22:19 |
| fysa | doesn't that seem heavy? | 22:19 |
| cizarro | is that VIRT or what? | 22:20 |
| fysa | VSZ | 22:20 |
| djcb | well, top is not a very good way to get mem figures | 22:22 |
| cizarro | yeah. so it doesn't really indicate too much about memory use | 22:22 |
| cizarro | try getting RES then subtract SHR from it | 22:22 |
| nomis | this probably includes the dynamically loaded libraries, or? | 22:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | hachi, what in the world are you doing? | 22:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | It installed right off for me. | 22:22 |
| pupnik | strange, the germany map only takes up 131MB | 22:25 |
| cizarro | nomis, amongst other things | 22:26 |
| cizarro | it includes all memory mapped areas, even if they haven't been loaded from the storage | 22:26 |
| fysa | ok, 15MB, not so bad ;) | 22:26 |
| cizarro | hence, VIRT is not really indicative of memory usage | 22:26 |
| hachi | I dunno, I have a few repos enabled... it says it can't install: hildon-libs0 | 22:26 |
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| hachi | and when I make hildon-libs0 available, suddenly it decides to remove something else... which I forgot the name of | 22:27 |
| hachi | trying to get openssh-server installed... hanging on the 'apt-get update' step inthe gui | 22:27 |
| inz | hachi, you're trying to use 2007 version of xchat | 22:27 |
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| inz | hachi, 2008 has libhildon1 instead of hildon-libs0 | 22:28 |
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| hachi | inz: I'll check, but I installed the varios repos by clicking on them in the browser, and gronmayer.com has been able to detect that I'm on a 2008 just fine every time I've tried it | 22:29 |
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| hachi | application manager has crashed now :\ | 22:29 |
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| `0660 | inz, are you planning to release a version of x-term? :) | 22:30 |
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| `0660 | i hate the one in os2008 | 22:30 |
| hachi | inz: there is no OS2007 xchat release | 22:30 |
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| `0660 | i noticed there was some chinook fixes in the svn for it | 22:31 |
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| hachi | as soon as I get openssh-server going (in a moment here) I'll be able to use apt-cache policy to see exactly where xchat is trying to install from | 22:32 |
| hachi | I'm pretty sure it's coming from Maemo hackers | 22:32 |
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| nomis | Mhm. The light sensor is a bit in an irritating place. /me keeps putting the finger on top of it. | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | hachi, there are xchat releases going back to OS2005 | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did you install xchat from application manager or from the .deb on the net? | 22:33 |
| hachi | app manager | 22:34 |
| hachi | it's not installed | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then you did it wrong | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | like inz said, you're trying to install the OS2007 version | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | You want the one in there. | 22:34 |
| hachi | so let me get this straight, when I'm on gronmayer.com and I go to 2008 and search for xchat | 22:34 |
| hachi | and I get a result from maemo hackers | 22:34 |
| hachi | this version I see | 22:35 |
| hachi | in the 2008 section | 22:35 |
| hachi | is for 2007? | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the OS2007 version | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody entered it wrong | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | or there's some fuzziness on the repo end | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | or you specified searching the whole db | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | No point crying over spilt milk. :P | 22:35 |
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| hachi | should I not be using 'maemo hackers' because of this deficiency? | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eh, there's no real reason not to. | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | The GUI stuff wont work | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | but the console stuff will run just fine. | 22:36 |
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| hachi | this is such a weird contrast, busybox and apt | 22:40 |
| hachi | I'm so used to busybox and ipkg | 22:40 |
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| hachi | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/p/pidgin-extprefs/pidgin-extprefs_0.7-0nix2_armel.deb Size mismatch | 22:41 |
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| hachi | hah, 2 extra bytes in the file in the repo | 22:43 |
| nick_fn | Is there a maemopad+ port for Debian Linux, so I can view my items on the desktop PC? | 22:44 |
| nomis | does anyone know if the two keys in the left of the N810 have LEDs in them as well? | 22:45 |
| hachi | mine do not light up | 22:45 |
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| nomis | hachi: if mine would light up I would not have asked this question :) | 22:46 |
| hachi | I know | 22:46 |
| hachi | but mine is 2 days old | 22:46 |
| hachi | I doubt I burned them out by now | 22:46 |
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| milhouse | anyone got an n810 on them? | 22:47 |
| pupnik | me! | 22:48 |
| hachi | like I just implied a moment ago, I have an n810 | 22:48 |
| milhouse | can you open file manager, then maximise | 22:48 |
| milhouse | it | 22:48 |
| pupnik | ok - it's under heavy load atm though | 22:48 |
| milhouse | and then try to unmaximise it - does it work? mine doesn't! it stays maximised | 22:48 |
| milhouse | will file a bug report if someone can confirm it... | 22:48 |
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| pupnik | yes maximize and unmaximise worked | 22:48 |
| hachi | nope | 22:48 |
| pupnik | using button | 22:49 |
| hachi | fine on mine | 22:49 |
| milhouse | hmm wierd - thanks hachi | 22:49 |
| milhouse | i wonder if the ambient light change broke it? | 22:49 |
| hachi | thank pupnik too :) | 22:49 |
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| milhouse | yes thanks pupnik :) | 22:49 |
| pupnik | two tests better than one... | 22:50 |
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| hachi | I can trigger a light change | 22:51 |
| hachi | hold on | 22:51 |
| hachi | nope, that seems unrelated | 22:52 |
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| dragorn | milhouse: worked fine here too | 22:54 |
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| milhouse | rebooted - didn't re-enable the ambient light hack - and it's working for me too... | 22:54 |
| dragorn | what's the ambient light hack? | 22:54 |
| milhouse | will put it down to a one-off... | 22:54 |
| milhouse | dragorn: nothing exciting, just a hack to stop the ambient light sensor driving me nuts by constantly and randomly changing the brightness for the screen | 22:55 |
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| milhouse | RFE is here - https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2755 - and temporary fix is in comment 2 | 22:56 |
| dragorn | milhouse: yeah I was hoping that's what it would be :) | 22:56 |
| dragorn | ah wow that's an ugly hack :P | 22:57 |
| milhouse | oh yeah :) | 22:57 |
| milhouse | but better than nothing | 22:57 |
| dragorn | you might be able to make things a little happier by finding the functions in that and making a stub lib | 22:57 |
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| milhouse | saves my n810 ending up in pieces after being thrown against a wall | 22:57 |
| milhouse | i'll have to leave that for people that understand that kind of thing - maybe that lib is open source (you never know with this "open source" project) | 22:58 |
| Jon | heh | 22:59 |
| Jon | is hildon OSS? I'd love to put the scrollbars on the LHS. | 22:59 |
| Jon | gtk supports doing that but I doubt that has been inherited into hildon | 22:59 |
| milhouse | hildon is oss | 22:59 |
| Jon | awesome | 22:59 |
| Jon | thanks | 22:59 |
| * Jon adds to TODO list | 22:59 | |
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| milhouse | hildon is now part of the GNOME project - http://live.gnome.org/Hildon | 22:59 |
| Jon | ah that's a good sign | 23:00 |
| milhouse | scrollbars are so last year btw :) | 23:00 |
| Jaffa | Indeed, go bug #2564 :) | 23:00 |
| Jon | why do some apps have absurdly wide scrollbars? | 23:01 |
| milhouse | bad design, no inter departmental communication, too many cooks? | 23:01 |
| Jon | oh wait, /me reads the bug | 23:01 |
| hachi | I think I like the interface of modest best | 23:01 |
| Jaffa | Jon: it's a finger-friendly "feature" introduced in OS 2008 for the reasons milhouse mentions | 23:02 |
| Jon | I see. yeah, it seems absurd to have such a huge scrollbar in a small display situation | 23:02 |
| hachi | I wish it was offline sporting | 23:02 |
| Jon | oh. | 23:02 |
| Jon | I wish it was optional in the mail app at least | 23:02 |
| pupnik | ok dosbox is a total wet dream on this | 23:02 |
| * Jon notices it in the modest screenshots | 23:02 | |
| * milhouse thinks pupnik needs to get out more | 23:03 | |
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| cizarro | scummvm already exists on the device, milhouse :-) | 23:03 |
| hachi | Jon: you can tell the mail app to download whole messages | 23:03 |
| cizarro | no need to get out.. | 23:03 |
| milhouse | dragorn: any news on kismet for os2008 - still got wireless problems? | 23:03 |
| hachi | anyone know why maemo-launcher might take up all of the available cpu? | 23:04 |
| cizarro | hachi, it takes a lot of energy to launch missiles | 23:04 |
| Jon | hachi: yes. not sure how that relates to the scrollbar - crossed wires? | 23:04 |
| dragorn | milhouse: still got problems. I'm taking a break from it for a day or two, because it pisses me off. | 23:04 |
| milhouse | can understand that - still no assistance from the powers that be? | 23:04 |
| dragorn | milhouse: unless someone else figures it out, the only way to get wlancond to leave the interface alone is to outright kill wlancond (/etc/init.d/wlancond stop) which is HORRIBLE. | 23:04 |
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| hachi | oh, I thought you were saying you wanted offline support in modest | 23:05 |
| dragorn | milhouse: and it still doesn't work after that, the interface randomly drops dead and I don't know why | 23:05 |
| dragorn | milhouse: Unless my power control code isn't changing the power, but wext power control is another nightmare | 23:05 |
| dragorn | milhouse: independent of the dbus/glib nightmare the nokia api imposes on trying to control things | 23:05 |
| milhouse | dragorn: bummer... maybe Intel MIDs will be a better option (you listening, Nokia?) | 23:06 |
| MikeonTV | I met a guy on this channel who has experience with the DiggAPI. Anyone here know who to talk to? | 23:06 |
| Tak | dbus glib nightmare? | 23:06 |
| Tama-rro | Hey, anyone knows who maintains the system icd? (the connection daemon) | 23:07 |
| dragorn | milhouse: Add a secondary level of significant annoyance at the fact that USB worked in the os2008 betas and doesn't in the final release, and I'm awfully cranky. | 23:07 |
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| dragorn | Tak: The concept that someone might not want to rewrite their entire codebase to use glib seems to have escaped whoever designed some of the APIs. | 23:07 |
| dragorn | Tak: It looks like it'll take ~150 lines of code and 43 libraries to use the libconic API, and it doesn't do what I need anyhow in the end :P | 23:08 |
| dragorn | milhouse: re assistance from powers that be, I don't know who to hassle that could help with it, watching the lists the nokia guys who are actually working on the device seem to have their hearts in the right place but can't release more info about the wireless stuff because of mgmt | 23:10 |
| dragorn | milhouse: Which means no inject, and I dunno what for rfmon | 23:10 |
| milhouse | kalle valo would be the best (only?) man I guess, but i'm sure you've been in contact and know where he stands (pretty much as you said above: hands are tied, unable to help, platform sinks, nokia out of the game etc. | 23:11 |
| milhouse | ) | 23:11 |
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| dragorn | milhouse: I fluctuate between being really cranky and having sympathy for them, since I'm in a similar position with other stuff. | 23:13 |
| Tak | mmm...autotoolicious | 23:13 |
| milhouse | dragorn: i have a ton of sympathy for the maemo developers, but I'm not going to have any sympathy for nokia or the maemo management when Nokia are out of this game due to their own bureaucratic incompetence | 23:14 |
| dragorn | milhouse: The degree to which nokia seems to not want this to succeed is painful, yes. | 23:15 |
| * nelson sends dragorn a box of doughnuts. | 23:15 | |
| nelson | chocolate doughnuts. | 23:15 |
| dragorn | milhouse: now, something I haven't tried - a long time ago, someone got a hacked up p54 prism54 softmac running on a 770. Then the p54 project went stale. | 23:15 |
| dragorn | milhouse: Lately however the mac80211 stuff is getting traction and has some form of prism54 softmac | 23:16 |
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| milhouse | would that help on the nokia tablets? | 23:17 |
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| dragorn | Well that's what I'm getting at. :) I don't know. | 23:17 |
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| milhouse | i guess a hack is better than nothing at all (assuming it works) - shame you have to do all this extra work though, instead of being able to work together with nokia :( | 23:18 |
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| Tama-rro | I need n00b info: what is the relationship between maemo and the nokia devs? | 23:20 |
| Tama-rro | and do nokia devs accept patches to stuff like 'icd'? | 23:21 |
| milhouse | almost all maemo developers are nokia employees | 23:21 |
| cizarro | Tama-rro, yes. file a bug, a patch, and cross fingers | 23:21 |
| milhouse | accepting of patches - it's been known to happen | 23:21 |
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| milhouse | tama-rro: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2006 is an example where a patch was accepted | 23:22 |
| Tama-rro | thanks | 23:23 |
| dragorn | milhouse: I'm cranky about the usb stuff too since I actually had a wispy working well :P | 23:23 |
| milhouse | dragorn: milhouse wonders what the hell is going on at maemo.org... seems like they're not listening, not communicating, not working. :( | 23:23 |
| milhouse | (oops didn't mean to talk about myself in the third person!) | 23:25 |
| maddler | damn... my power menu disappeared... :) | 23:26 |
| cizarro | milhouse, happens to the best of them.. | 23:26 |
| milhouse | cizarro: not if they want to survive | 23:26 |
| Tak | You want to begin talking about yourself in the second person. | 23:26 |
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| cizarro | milhouse, survival of us and them, is equally overrated | 23:27 |
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| * Tak begin long process of building glib | 23:27 | |
| cizarro | Tak, how long does it take? | 23:27 |
| Tak | I'll let you know | 23:27 |
| * cizarro doesn't remember it taking too long last time he/they did it | 23:28 | |
| cizarro | direct or cross? | 23:28 |
| Tak | cross | 23:28 |
| * cizarro nods | 23:28 | |
| Tak | my build machine is aging, as well | 23:28 |
| michele_ | Is it just me or youtube doesn't work anymore with the included flash player? | 23:28 |
| milhouse | i don't see this platform surviving without maemo.org (too much closed source, would take a long while to replace the whole OS), and they can't survive without us... can't overrate that relationship enough! | 23:28 |
| milhouse | :) | 23:28 |
| Tak | hmm, what about mamona? | 23:29 |
| milhouse | is it fully working yet? thought there were some parts not yet working | 23:29 |
| Tak | only a couple of minutes to build glib; I'm impressed | 23:29 |
| dragorn | glib is pretty tiny | 23:30 |
| * jott finally build valac_0.1.4-1_armel.deb for sbox | 23:30 | |
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| Tak | why 1.4? | 23:30 |
| jott | that's what lenny gave me :p | 23:30 |
| jott | a version bump should not be too hard now with all dependencies build.. | 23:31 |
| * Tak building 1.5 now | 23:31 | |
| Tak | I'm not doing it The Debian Way, though | 23:32 |
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| cizarro | Tak, what gcc flags did you have? | 23:34 |
| cizarro | and which gcc? | 23:34 |
| cizarro | (not that it really matters much, just out of curiosity) | 23:34 |
| Tak | I'm using the latest bora maemo toolchain | 23:34 |
| Tak | default cflags from configure | 23:34 |
| * cizarro nods and shrugs | 23:35 | |
| * cizarro plays with latex some more | 23:35 | |
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| Tak | hell - /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so: undefined reference to `osso_g_scanner_cache_open' | 23:38 |
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| Tak | hmm, if I revert to old glib, I get: valac: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libvala.so.0: undefined symbol: g_param_spec_gtype | 23:42 |
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| Tester_ | michele_: make sure its not disabled | 23:42 |
| jott | Tak: my deb (0.1.5) seems to work :p .. | 23:44 |
| Tak | what version of glib does it depend on? | 23:44 |
| jott | the sbox one.. 2.5.0 | 23:45 |
| michele_ | Tester_: it was... But I didn't disable it... | 23:45 |
| Tak | send me the deb(s)? | 23:45 |
| Tester_ | michele_: yea, that happens to me too | 23:45 |
| jott | Tak: yeah but i need to trace the dependency path first (there are alot of other debs in the dir ;-) | 23:46 |
| Tak | whee | 23:46 |
| jott | hmm seems only to be build-deps.. | 23:47 |
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| jott | Tak: http://sse2.net/maemo/ ..just tell me if there is missing something | 23:49 |
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| Tak | valac depends on libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1); however: Version of libc6 on system is 2.3.5cs2005q3.2-5.osso12. valac depends on libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.12-1osso3); however: Version of libglib2.0-0 on system is 2.8.6-1osso11. | 23:52 |
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| jott | what sdk are you using? not chinook? | 23:56 |
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| * nelson grrrrrrs at letstalk.com | 23:57 | |
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| Tak | bora | 23:59 |
| jott | uuh.. :P | 23:59 |
| Tak | I'm not moving completely to chinook until HE is caught up | 23:59 |
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