IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-12-17

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|tbb|is the navigation software for os2008 available right now00:13
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timeless|tbb|: it's part of the flash image00:21
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timelessalthough from what i understand some paid feature is not currently available00:21
timelessi think that's the audio guidance or something00:21
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|tbb|is it possible to use it with n80000:23
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jeremymanyone here familiar with maemo mapper?00:51
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jeremymI would like to get it to talk to a file (/tmp/nmeaNP) .   It only seems to want to talk bluetooth.00:52
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lardman|homesoooo, does the week start on a Sunday or a Monday...?01:03
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tontsathat depends on culture01:04
lardman|homefor the Finnish, or Spaniards who work for Finnish companies?01:04
lardman|homeanyway, my code didn't work when I tried it an hour ago01:06
|tbb|gimme the code i will try it for u ;)01:07
lardman|homebut thanks for the offer :)01:08
tontsaweeks start on mondays in finland01:08
tontsalike it's week 51 now01:08
derfThey said it would become active next week, but not _when_ during the week.01:09
lardman|homethat's true, it's tomorrow over there isn't it01:09
lardman|homederf: I know, wishful thinking01:09
tontsa1am in monday right now01:09
derfPresumably you'll get e-mail.01:10
lardman|homegood point01:10
lardman|homederf: I sidestepped the issues with memcpy() (though I still can't memcpy), now tweaking _checksum() to work with 16bit bytes01:11
dragornjeremym: the latest version has file support01:12
dragornjeremym: though I haven't tried it01:12
tontsai wonder why nokia offers fm-radio app to n810.. or is there actually some special headset that works as antenna01:15
timelessanyone here use modest?01:16
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* timeless wonders what that means (in English)01:17
Sho_timeless: The repos is per-OS, not per-Device, I guess01:17
Sho_tontsa, that is01:17
timelesssho: i wasn't wondering :)01:17
timelessand while the repo is per os01:17
timelessyou can easily make a package that means "n800"01:17
timelessand depend on the n800 package01:17
Sho_timeless: Sorry, tab completion that completes to the most recently active user for the given prefix ;)01:17
timelessor better, make a package that provides "hardware-camera" and "hardware-fmradio"01:18
timelessand depend on that01:18
timelesssho: lesson learned, don't rely on tab completion ;-)01:18
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* timeless grumbles01:19
* timeless can't reach nokia.com01:19
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tontsai think that HDD-1 is discontinued for some reason01:22
tontsaatleast can't find the product anymore01:23
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tontsanot that either n800 or n810 product specs advertise fm-radio01:25
tontsaohh.. in n800 it's "hidden"01:27
tontsapity they changed that to lousy gps-radio in n810 :)01:30
tontsai finally found out what was killing bluetooth connection, it's the os2008 built-in mail client01:31
tontsaeverytime my mailbox had more than 3 or 4 messages, everything would get really slow and eventually bluetooth would be dropped01:31
tontsaalthough n810 still thought the bluetooth connection is on01:31
lardman|homewhat's 0^0?01:33
lardman|homeshould be 101:33
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lardman|homedebugging crc code01:33
tontsaglad i'm not into math01:33
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tontsalooks like an emoticon for non math guy01:34
lardman|homeI'm not having much luck with it, can't quite work out what's causing a bus error01:34
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lardman|homewierd, something in this is causing the bus error: crc_lookup[((crc_reg >> 24)&0xff)^data[j]]01:37
lardman|homebut crc_lookup[0] works and =001:37
lardman|homeand ((crc_reg >> 24)&0xff)^data[j] also works and =001:37
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timelesstontsa: you don't like 4=1+1+1?01:45
tontsawhat's there to like01:46
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timelesslardman, there are two operations "^", if you have a decent browser, you can ask it: javascript:[0^0,Math.pow(0,0)] -- 0,101:47
lardman|hometimeless: Octave tells me 1, as expected01:48
timelesstypically in cs, the first one is what ^ is, and the second one has the other meaning01:48
timelesss/the other meaning/some other notation/01:48
infobottimeless meant: typically in cs, the first one is what ^ is, and the second one has some other notation01:48
timelessin cs, ^ = exclusive or01:49
lardman|homeah, I see01:49
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lardman|homein C I assume it's still pow()01:50
timelessalong w/ | and &01:50
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timelessc, js, just about every "normal" language uses it for bitwise01:50
tontsa** is the math equilevant01:50
timelesssome languages use ** for the math equivalent01:50
timelesssome don't01:50
timeless(js doesn't)01:50
lardman|homeaah, I use MATLAB too much01:50
fysawhat's needed to get videocenter going on os2008?01:51
timelessanyway, in general, assume that js is close enough to C01:51
lardman|homemakes more sense being a logical operation than raising to a power01:51
timelessjs can easily be evaluated in most web browsers, as demo'd above01:51
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timelessis an example of heavy abuse of creatures01:53
timelessis probably relevant01:53
lardman|homevery strange, I can't do this: temp_index=0; crc_lookup[temp_index], but can do this: (ogg_uint32_t)*(&crc_lookup + temp_index)01:54
timeless<< is typically how one encounters Math.pow01:54
timelesscan't=compile error?01:54
timelesswhat's the type for crc_lookup?01:54
lardman|homeproduces a bus error01:54
timelessfor crc_lookup?01:55
lardman|homethe DSP compiler doesn't like using arrays to access memory it seems01:55
lardman|homeyes, crc_lookup is an array of ogg_uint32_t01:55
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timeless120 typedef         __u32           uint32_t;01:56
timelessthat just means it's a number, no?01:56
timelessnot a pointer?01:56
lardman|homeit's just a number, 32bit unsigned01:56
timelesswhy would you expect 4[5] to do something useful?01:56
lardman|homecrc_lookup is an array of 256 elements01:57
timelessoddly, int y; int *x=&y; 0[x]; does something useful01:57
timelessgah, what's the type of the token |crc_lookup|01:57
timelessthe whole type, not the type of something related to it01:57
nomisthe [] operator is commutative, i.e. a[b] = b[a]01:58
timelessnomis: depends on the language :)01:58
timelessin js, it isn't :)01:58
lardman|homeah, it's an array of  ogg_uint32_t, so it's a pointer I suppose01:58
* nomis is talking C. Ok. :)01:58
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* lardman|home is also talking C01:58
* timeless frowns01:58
timelessa bus error, eh?01:59
timelessonly on arm, i'm assuming?01:59
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cbx33hey all I just updated my howto for maemo 4.001:59
cbx33i think my blog was linked from a bot kb here02:00
timelesswhat do you mean dsp?02:00
lardman|homethe other curious thing is that although I shouldn't need the & in there, I need to put it in02:00
cbx33if anyone wants to update it give me a shout02:00
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timelesscbx33: "infobot" is "the last bot standing"02:00
lardman|hometimeless: Ti C55 DSP02:00
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timelesscbx33: i don't own the bot, if you can figure out how to operate it, ... i suppose you're the channel's guest :)02:01
dragornif crc_lookup is an array, then crc_lookup is a pointer to the first element, so foo[4] should be equivalent to *(foo + 4);02:01
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dragorn(ogg_uint32_t)*(&crc_lookup + temp_index) is just... weird badness. :P02:01
timelesslardman: are you using make or gcc directly?02:01
timelessin gecko, i'd use make foo.i02:02
nomisdragorn: which in turn is equivalent to *(4 + foo) and hence is the same as 4[foo]  :)02:02
dragornnomis: but we proved a while ago with whatever weirdass compiler he's using for the DSP, no, it's not :P02:02
dragornnomis: at least, last week, his compiler threw bounds errors on multi-page maps for array[foo] but not *(array + foo)02:02
timelesslardman: try something like:02:02
timelessgcc -E -o foo.i foopy.c02:02
dragorntimeless: it's not gcc, afaik02:03
dragornwhich explains the very weird compiler behavior02:03
timelesswhat is it?02:03
timelesssome ti compiler?02:03
cbx33timeless, was just letting people know its there and updated ;)02:03
nomisdragorn: ok. I was just so amazed when I learned that 4[foo] thing some time ago, that I cannot stop talking about it  ;)02:03
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dragornnomis: I'm confused by that and not entirely sure it would work, unless the compiler has explicit support for that linguistic structure.  It might for some data types.02:04
timelessso, this is a "special" compiler?02:04
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nomisdragorn: I tried it in GCC and it not even triggers a warning.02:04
dragorntimeless: afaik, but I'm letting lardman answer since he's actually dealing with it, I jsut remember previous conversations.02:04
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dragornnomis: it must have a language construct for it to inherit the 'foo' type02:04
dragornlardman: This isn't gcc, is it?02:05
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lardman_no, it's a Ti compiler02:05
timelesslardman: look for something equivalent to -E02:05
nomisdragorn: no, not really. It really boils down to the *(4 + foo), which is the usual (commutative) pointer arithmetics inside the parentheses.02:05
timeless-E is basically "preprocess, and dump the resulting stuff, but don't compile02:05
dragornnomis: since the subscript size is determined by the array type, it's got to somehow figure out the right additive at compile time02:05
nomisdragorn: well one argument has to boil down to some integer, otherwise pointer arithmetics won't work.02:06
dragornnomis: ah, yes.  I see, I was being stupid about my pointer addition02:06
dragornnomis: I believe technically foo[4] expands to *(foo + (sizeof(foo) * 4))02:06
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lardman_If I declare crc_lookup[256], I can access crc_lookup[0] (i.e. explicit constant 0), but if the index is a variable I need to do *(&crc_lookup + some_var)02:07
dragornnomis: vs. *(foo + 4) which is whatever the native pointer type is (uint32 probably) and 4 bytes02:07
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lardman_I also have to do *(&crc_lookup + some_var) rather than the expected *(crc_lookup + some_var)02:07
dragornlardman: that seems very broken, since you're dereferencing the address of a pointer plus a number02:07
nomisdragorn: right, pointer arithmetics takes the size of the type the pointer points to into account.02:08
lardman_dragorn: the compiler should accept both &crc_lookup and crc_lookup as pointers though02:08
lardman_addresses even02:08
nomisso if you have  uint8  foo[5];  foo + 3 will point to the fourth array element.02:08
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timelessyou really shouldn't use x for x=2**y as an example number02:08
timelessit can easily lead to confusion02:08
dragornnomis: yeah.  I'm confusing myself at this time. :)02:09
infobotdragorn meant: nomis: yeah.  I'm confusing myself at this point. :)02:09
dragornf'ing infobot.02:09
timelessdragorn: leave off the trailing /02:09
dragornWonder if we can feed it a nice long regex and make it go away for a while :P02:09
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timelessinfobot will ignore you, the humans who speak regexp will accept it02:10
dragornlardman: where is crc_lookup defined02:10
MrZaiussorry if this is borderline off topic, but I know there's a dozen or more people in the room that could answer this without thinking: does the n800 ship with two styluses like the n770 did, or should I buy spares along with the device?02:10
tontsan810 shipped atleast with two02:11
* nomis says something long and winded, trying to confuse the regex mechanism of infobot02:11
lardman_dragorn: in the same file02:11
nomiseither it did work or infobot did not understand it  :)02:11
lardman_as a global const02:12
timelessafaik, the 770,n800 and n810 all ship w/ 202:12
timelessone in the device and one in the plastic packaging02:12
nomisis infobot still allive?02:12
MrZaiusthanks timel02:12
infobotnomis meant: is infobot still alive?02:12
timelessbut that's ok, you'll lose both :)02:12
MrZaiustimeless, rather02:12
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timelessmrzaius: i respond to both timely and timeless02:13
MrZaiuskept my n770 stylus for the 6 months it took to break the headphone jack02:13
timelessalthough i tend to insult irc clients that get stuck between :)02:13
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lardman_hmm, well at least the checksum code actually works now and returns something, shame it's not what the ogg file thinks it should be :)02:13
timelesshow'd you break the headphone jack?02:13
MrZaius oooooh..... just in case, should buy that02:13
MrZaiustimeless: wrapping the headphone chord a little to tight around the device, i'd imagine02:14
MrZaiuswiggled a little and now is just mono, unless you hold it just right02:14
MrZaiuseasy to fix if you know how to use a soldering iron, I'm told02:14
MrZaiusbut I don't, so I didn't02:14
MrZaiusnice excuse for an upgrade02:14
timelessmrzaius: did you at least inform nokia cares?02:15
timeless(or was it nokia care?)02:15
MrZaiustimeless: nah02:15
MrZaiuspicked up a dedicated music player instead02:15
timelessmrzaius: afaik they keep records about such things, so knowing that it happens is feedback to the hardware designers02:15
timelesswhich is appreciated02:15
MrZaiusthe OS2007 media player took too long to generate playlists off a 2gb rs-mmc card02:15
MrZaiusand it ate up batteries02:16
lardman_bed time, see you all on the morrow02:16
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timelessmrzaius: think of all the future users! :)02:16
MrZaiusbut the next owner very well might02:16
MrZaiusi'll pass along your concern - bet he'll get it fixed02:16
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MrZaiusI just couldn't be without a pda that long, so ordered the n800 which arrives tomorrow02:17
MrZaiusand selling the n770 tonight02:17
MrZaiusmy wife's an author, and she'd kill me in my sleep if I couldn't read ebooks02:17
MrZaiusand they don't look right on my bigger displays02:17
* timeless hasn't really found any device that displays ebooks "well"02:18
MrZaiusmy zaurus and n770 did just fine02:18
timelessi've used an eink (?), 770,n800,n810,n81, windows w/ msreader02:18
MrZaiusthe trick is to do bright green text on a black background02:18
MrZaiusextremely high contrast02:18
MrZaiusvery easy on the eyes02:18
MrZaiusand in the dark02:18
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timelessyou mean like the apple ii c/e? :)02:19
MrZaiusnever gotten my hands on eInk, although I would likely have purchased the amazon one if it hadn't been so badly drm encumbered02:19
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MrZaiusgive it a shot - you might be surprised how well it works02:19
MrZaiusin the dark I can set the backlight to the lowest setting I can use w/o touching text files02:19
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MrZaiusand it's still crystal clear02:19
MrZaiusand the battery lasts a good long while like that, as you'd imagine02:20
rhykinhow is the os2008 beta on n800?02:20
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* timeless shrugs02:21
timelessi never found enough ebook content to use on my internet tablets02:22
timelessi found more content for my n8102:22
timelessanyway, nighttime02:23
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n800userDoes anyone else have osso-media-server taking ~78 megs of ram?03:08
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n800userYeah, pretty insane memory hog...03:09
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n800userIs there a way to reduce the memory consumption that it takes?  I noticed os2008 seems to be very bloated.03:10
Jitensounds like it leaks or then that's mostly virtual memory consumption.03:12
n800userThis is directly after starting up.03:13
n800userAll I've done is to start the tablet, open up xterm, then run top.03:14
Jitenwhat does it show for used, free, cached and buffers?03:21
n800userMem: 121788K used, 5040k free, 0K shrd, 23044K buff, 37788K cached03:25
n800userMaybe I'll just wait for the official firmware, but everyone has mentioned the speed increase (which I did notice) but it also feels like there's too much stuff loaded into memory03:28
zerojayDon't worry about memory.03:28
zerojayBesides, if less memory is used, it just means it's wasted anyways.03:28
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JitenI wouldn't call it wasted. Linux kernel tends to make pretty good use of it.03:29
n800userI'm just concerned that the tablet loads so much just for startup. Maybe it's unwarrented but I'm curious to why is uses so much03:29
Jitentop isn't really a reliable measure of the real memory usage.03:30
n800userI have all the applets disabled, and am not running anything besides top within xterm03:30
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n800userJiten, is there another way to measure performance?03:32
Jitenfrom those values, it's quite clear that the system is only using around 61 megabytes of memory.03:32
n800userSince it should throw out the memory from buff and cached when needed?03:33
smackpotatoit uses as much as possible for caches03:33
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Jitenhowever, you really don't want the caches to drop to near 0. It causes very noticeable slowdown of the system.03:36
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skiburis there an rss feed link for maemo updates?03:53
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ScisserFeindis any one active here?05:52
skibureverybody asleep05:52
ScisserFeindcuz I was hoping maybe someone could helpme with something05:52
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blast007ScisserFeind: usually it's just best to ask a question and wait for a response05:54
skiburthat is a response, try again05:54
ScisserFeindDoes anyone know of anyway of using the Nokia 770 as a Midi Controller?05:54
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ScisserFeindlooks like a question to me05:54
skiburhum... don't05:57
ScisserFeindthats not very helpful05:59
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skibursorry on my N800 pidgin06:02
realcomixMe too06:02
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lle2anybody willing to try these:
ScisserFeindim just trying to see if I can use it to send midi through usb at the moment06:03
halleyIt's not a full USB, it's a special kind of USB.06:04
skiburwhat is the purpose of a midi controller?06:04
halleyWell, not sure about the 770 honestly.06:04
lle2it can do host06:04
lle2but can't provide power06:05
ScisserFeindi dont need it, I want to use it to manipulate params on a softsynth06:05
halleySo you'd want to do one of those USB->MIDI dongles at the minimum, then do whatever other midi apps do with the usb.06:06
ScisserFeindwell, ive got the usb cable from n770 to computer06:07
ScisserFeindi just need to see if I can use it to send the data i want06:07
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halleylle2, would love to see if osx could run it without having to use some parallels hack.06:08
lle2I need some serious help with dylibs on osx06:08
lle2as in, how are they _really_ linked, not this "use libtool" answer that I keep running into06:09
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ScisserFeinddoes anyone have any experience with PD or PDa?06:51
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sarowerI need to know: Where the chat history and internet call history  remains in the N800 device..?08:12
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sarowerI mean in which directory this information is??08:13
saroweris there anybody?08:13
sarowerhelp me?08:13
sarowerPupnik: I think you are expert... so please say something!08:14
pupnikno idea08:14
sarowerany body please......!!!08:14
pupnikbut you can use grep to find text on a filesystem08:14
saroweri need to find it in N800 device08:15
sarowerwhat the command could be..?08:15
sarowerI use A X-terminal08:15
pupnikin xterm08:15
pupnikcd /home08:15
pupnikgrep -ri $string user08:15
pupnikwill search subtree of user for $string08:16
pupnikso substitute some text from chat, or a phone number for $string08:16
pupnikthat might work08:16
sarowerlet me try08:16
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pupnikif it is stored in some non-ascii binary format, grep will not find it of course08:18
infobotpupnik meant: if it is stored in some non-ascii  format, grep will not find it of course08:18
pupnikactually maybe it works with unicode now?  i am behind the times08:18
sarowerbut grep is not working at all.......08:19
sarowerin this device there is no user08:19
pupnikcd /home08:19
pupnikthere should be a /home/user  no?08:19
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saroweryah there is /home/user08:20
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sarowerpupnik: there is a directory /home/user... then/08:23
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jga23is there a .bashrc file for aliases for os2008?08:25
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sarowerI need to know: Where the chat history and internet call history  remains in the N800 device..?08:27
sarowerany body please......!!!08:28
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pupniksarower: the grep command can take a while to finish.  what happened when you tried it?08:29
sarowerUsage:grep [-rihHnqvs,,,,] PATTERN [FILES......]08:30
sarowerthen stopping after it.08:30
|Rhere it is: /home/user/.osso/imlogger08:31
|Rand up one level for other types of log (rtcom (sip)) etc...08:31
sarowerbut the device is not showing these.. (. files and folders)08:32
sarowerit is only showing /home/user08:32
sarowerther is MyDocs and apps folder only under /home/user08:33
sarowerin N800 device08:34
|Rhow do you make that list show up?08:34
sarowerIn xter I just write ls08:35
sarowerand it shows Mydocs and apps folder08:35
|Rls doesn't show up files starting with . unless you use the -a flag08:36
sarowerok then i must use ls -a08:36
sarowerok it is showing...08:36
|Rwhy do you care about the logs anyway? lock your device :)08:36
saroweris .Osso a directory08:36
sarowerI need to retrive the history08:37
sarowerI am planning to develop an application for N800 device08:37
saroweris not it possible to retrieve the information any way..?08:37
|Rbetter learn some shell skills first :)08:38
sarowerfor command..?08:39
|Rwell if you plan on developing for the n800, i'm guessing your going to need to play around the Maemo SDK08:39
|Rwhich runs on linux :)08:39
saroweryou are......08:40
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sarowerthere is no /home/user/.osso/imlogger08:42
pupniki only have 77008:42
|Rthat example was n800 with OS2008 beta08:43
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sarowerWHich type of file imlogger is?08:43
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|Rin my path? a folder08:44
pupnikahh sorry, the maemo grep does not support the -r (recursive) flag08:44
|Rpupnik it does08:44
|Rat least in 2008 beta :)08:45
pupnikok, on os2006 busybox it doesn't08:45
* corevette wants OS 2008 HE!!!!!08:45
pupniksorry for imprecise language08:45
|Rbut i think that it did in 200708:45
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sterigraeh, anyway know good mediaplayer for os2008? imho kagu and ukmp both suck09:43
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zerojayMedia Player.09:49
sterithis might sound stupid but how I can add one directory which has lots of subdirectories to playlist?09:54
pupniksteri: i don't know, but that's how i would like to add files09:58
pupnikMaybe when xmms is finished for the tablets :)09:58
steriI only found a add file and with 1.5gig mp3's thats insane thing to do09:58
pupniksteri: with what program?09:59
sterimedia player09:59
pupnikthe popular players are kagu, ukmp and canola09:59
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pupnikpersonally i prefer a more bare-bones app, that will load from directory trees and get out of the way10:00
pupnikno album covers, giant fonts and buttons, no online database search, no filesystem crawler10:01
steriI know, and I just told at imho kagu and ukmp suck :P canola2 is not released yet. maybe I just install older canola now and wait a week(?) until they get that 2.nd version out10:01
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pupnikdon't say they 'suck'.  the creators put a lot of work and love into them. :)10:01
sterithat's the same I want, just some basic app which works on the background. knows how to play randomly etc just basic functions10:01
pupniki haven't found that app yet, but it will come eventually10:02
steripupnik: that's way I said imho :P they look nice etc but they are something different what I luike10:02
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pupnikok yes10:03
pupniki complained about this on the forums but i offended trev too much :)10:03
pupnikI also prefer a native C/C++ app for me, not interpreted language10:03
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sarowerI need to know: Where the chat history and internet call history  remains in the N800 device..?.10:21
sarowerany body please......!!!10:21
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jjo__sarower: I'm assuming you checked the obvious place (hidden directories in home directory)?10:23
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sarowerjjo: right ....10:25
sarowerbut which directory it may be..?10:25
sterigladly there is commandline mplayer <3 mplayer -shuffle /path/mp3/*/*/*10:27
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wplayyawhere can i set the color of normal text in a theme_10:30
sarowerhi.. jjo!!10:31
saroweru there?10:31
sarowern any idea..?10:31
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pupnikthemes are in /usr/share/themes i think10:40
pupnikthere is a 'thememaker' application that can assist10:41
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sarowerjjo u there?10:45
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jjo__oh, yes10:48
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jjo__actually I have no idea about the name of the directory it might be but the name is usually related to the program10:49
jjo__there's no guarantee about that thou ;)10:50
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jjo__actually it doesn't even seem to save the chat logs unless you save them explicitly10:57
saroweris not there any information saved by the app itsekf..?11:01 info, chating partner, etc.......11:02
sarowerif i get the specific directory then it would be helpful to me11:02
sarowerto get the idea clearly......11:03
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JaffaMorning, all11:16
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rothielHello World :)11:28
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sarowerWhere the chat application and internet call application is installed in N800?11:47
saroweranybody please..?11:48
sarowerin which directory..?11:48
sarowerany body can help...?11:48
jeddy3sarower, slow down...11:48
sarowercan you please..!11:49
jeddy3sarower, in wich directory on filesystem, or in menubar=11:49
jeddy3sarower, hang on11:49
sarowerI need to find the information that it stores during chat or in general..11:50
jeddy3oh, information11:51
jeddy3information place != application place11:51
saroweri need to know about both..!11:51
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sarowerInformation place is important...11:52
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sarowerI need to see the history or other information related to chat and internet call11:52
jeddy3contactinformation is in .osso-abook anyway11:53
saroweryah... i got it11:54
sarowerbut history log....!11:54
jeddy3maybe in db/adressbook.db11:54
saroweryah the addressbook...!11:55
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sarowerthat means the contacts are stored in the /db/addressbook.db11:55
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jeddy3i have no idea :)11:56
sarowerbut i need to know where the history is saved when chatting.!11:56
sarowernow can you please tell where the application is installed??11:57
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jeddy3sarower, first of all: doesn't hurt to be polite, second: I already told you, where application is installed have nothing to do with where it store it's information12:02
jeddy3sarower, have you checked .osso-abook/db/adressbook.db as suggested?12:02!12:04
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carbonfreezeso, would this be the place to discuss issues re: n810?12:18
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Fang64yup and the N800/N77012:20
vegaifor now, it's the place to growl at americans for getting their n810 earlier than everyone else12:20
Fang64or that12:20
carbonfreezewait, its not MY fault. I had to import my last pda (zaurus c3000)12:20
carbonfreezehaving a couple of odd issues; seems the OS likes to ignore settings in the /etc/fstab file.. can't change mount points (device ignores settings upon OS startup)12:22
carbonfreezeex: the internal sd is mounted to /media/mmc2; but I want to use it as /home. No go, each time device is power cycled, the internal mmc is mounted at /media/mmc2 again12:22
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RocketmanDoes anyone know how to suppress the auto-dim function on the n810?12:34
RocketmanIt is constantly activating and it is driving me nuts12:35
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Rocketmanthey just HAD to put the light sensor right where your finger naturally wants to cradle the device12:36
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JaffaRocketman: finally, something which is better for the left-handers :)12:41
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RocketmanI am finding the n810 to be terribly unergonomic12:43
PalintheusJaffa: +112:43
carbonfreezeRocketman: +112:43
tontsawell i don't like the fact that numbers are behind Fn-button. and there's no Fn-button on right side12:44
tontsaso numbers 1-4 you need to use very tricky combo12:44
carbonfreezeno pipe key on keybord, either12:44
RocketmanThey should have implemented tap and hold to trigger second functions of keys12:44
Rocketmanit is an extremely common thing on Win CE devices12:45
carbonfreezeit would not have bothered me if the device was .5cm taller for another row of keys on kb12:45
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Rocketmaneverything about the button design just feels wrong to me, except they finally fixed the top buttons (fullscreen, +, -, etc.)12:47
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Fang64seems like nokia didn't completely think out the device12:48
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RocketmanIt seems like after two revisions they should have really been at a very refined stage12:49
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Rocketmanthe n810 is a real mixed bag imo12:50
Rocketmanexcellent build quality12:50
Rocketmanand more pocketable12:50
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carbonfreezeit would be nice to be able to run full x apps without porting12:51
Rocketmanbut the switch to mini-sd, crappy ergonomics and sub-par gps have me yearning for my n800 again12:51
Rocketmankinda feel the same way about Vista12:52
Rocketmansuch a mixed bag12:52
Rocketmanyeah, carbonfreeze, hildon is the worst thing about maemo12:52
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Rocketmanwould see tons more apps without it12:53
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carbonfreezedoing stuff in the current version of gnumeric is driving me nuts12:53
carbonfreezetap the cell you want to edit, tap the edit field.. etc12:53
carbonfreezeshould have some sort of fallback mode for normal x apps, just run them in a smaller window or somesuch12:54
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carbonfreezei mean, its like 800xsomething res, should be able to handle it. my other pda was 640x480 and i could run GIMP on it with little trouble12:54
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Rocketmanno arguments here12:57
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carbonfreezethey should have taken something like the gpe pim apps (contact,calendar,todo,timesheet) and integrated it with the other apps (mail/etc). There should also be the ability to change the default application used for a task (chat/mail/rss/browser), or made the communicate menu customizable13:00
sp3000Rocketman: hm? fn fn locks fn13:00
sp3000hold would seem ...slow13:00
* sp3000 shrugs13:01
sp3000I suppose that'd work, too13:01
Rocketmandoing it that way is many keypresses vs just a few via tap and hold13:01
carbonfreezei cant believe they shipped a linux pda, without a pipe character on the keyboard. its such a pain to work in bash without it13:01
sp3000you can put it in the onscreen row, right?13:02
sp3000I mean you need tab all the time too, anyway :)13:02
carbonfreezeyeah, but i forgot the alias for it, and im too lazy to look it up. much easier to complain about faulty keyboard design13:03
RocketmanI've played with 4 different slider keyboard devices in the last few years and this is imo the worst of the lot13:07
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carbonfreezeI liked the keyboard on my spitz the most of any pda ive used, nice button spacing and reachable.13:08
Rocketmanah, almost ordered one from dynamism13:11
carbonfreezeyeah i picked one up as soon as they had them. great pda.13:11
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carbonfreezegot a 56k modem, wlan & 100 ether CF cards with it. great for travel.13:11
Rocketmanbut kept working with my Jornada 728 and Netbook Pro for another year or so13:11
carbonfreezebut, the battery was getting old, and i saw the n810 announced, and decided to pick it up13:12
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carbonfreezespitz battery = $80+shipping13:12
Rocketmanuntil getting my 770 w bluetooth keyboard13:12
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RocketmanI'm almost ready to jump ship for one of the ultra small windows devices13:13
carbonfreezeeh, only if it gets 6hrs+ battery & can run linux13:14
carbonfreezewhat bothers me about the n810 is no suspend to ram13:14
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carbonfreezeits always on, would be nice to suspend for more battery life. Unless the CPU/logic is so effecient that its the same13:15
Rocketmanlike an OQO or Fujitsu U81013:16
carbonfreezei mean, its not a cell phone. My last pda could resume from suspend in like 0.3 seconds, why not allow it on this for great battery life13:16
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RocketmanI liked the U810 a lot, except for it's screen13:23
Rocketmantoo glossy13:23
* Jaffa thinks the N810 is one of the best mobile devices he's ever owned (modulo Psion Series 5mx)13:23
RocketmanI am a big fan of the HPC form factor of the old school win ce devices and the psions13:24
Rocketmanowned a lot over the years13:24
Rocketmanas well as ultra-compact full windows devices13:25
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Rocketmanowned two librettos13:25
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gmis there a way to not mount the SD cards as noexec on the n800 under os2008?13:32
carbonfreezegm: seems like os2008 ignores fstab changes on boot.. I was having issues changing mount points, and the two may be related. see bug#257513:35
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gmmight just do a startup script to do "mount -o remount,exec /dev/mmc1"13:36
carbonfreezegm: yeah, but it shouldn't ignore fstab.13:37
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gmhmm, even after mounting it as as exec, it still won't run13:40
gm-sh: ./configure: Permission denied13:40
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gmeven after a chmod +x configure13:40
carbonfreezepermissions on files are ok? you can write?13:41
gmit's just a dir on the memory card13:41
carbonfreezemaybe your user doesnt have permission to write to the dir?13:41
gmi extracted it from the tarball13:42
gmi do have write permissions13:42
tontsaanyone happen to have vncviewer packaged for chinook?13:42
Rocketmanthere is one up at garage, tontsa13:43
tontsai have the garage repo in application manager, odd that it doesn't find it13:44
carbonfreezeapp manager for these devices drives me nutes. should be a setting to show all packages, not some red-pill repo13:45
RocketmanI think it is considered beta quality, tontsa, so they just have a .deb for it13:46
Rocketmanworks fine for me though13:46
gmhmmm, there is /usr/sbin/mmc-mount13:46
gmthat has noexec in it13:46
tontsai just hate this bluetooth+packet data. for some reason n810 just disconnects sometimes and doesn't realize it. then only way to get back is disable bluetooth and enable it again13:47
gmdmask? hmmm13:47
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gmcarbonfreeze: /usr/sbin/mmc-mount appears to override noexec13:50
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gmthat might be why fstab is ignoring it13:50
carbonfreezegm: ahh, lemmie take a look13:50
gmhmm, my cards won't mount13:51
tontsagm, thanks. works surprisingly good13:51
gmor was that because i changed dmask13:52
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gmfmask 0133 might have something to do with it13:58
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gmahh, there we go... ish14:02
gmwait, that failure was unrelated14:02
gmcarbonfreeze: you will also need to change fmask in that file if you want to be able to exec14:02
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Fang64I wondor why I'm having trouble with the ncurses-bin on the n800 and only a few had the same issues I wondor if this has anything to do with me jumping the gun and flashing up to OS2008 then back down to OS200714:59
gmshouldn't be - reflashing wipes everything15:00
Fang64That's what I thought15:00
Fang64I've been trying different ways to get the package to install correctly seems to be busybox and ncurses-bin not behaving15:01
Fang64"/bin/usr/clear" is the the file ncurses-bin attempts to overwrite in one version of the package it fails and just doesn't install it, the maemo-hacker repo leaves a entry guess a bad package15:02
Fang64the only problem I'm having is I've search the directory and only found busybox.clear15:02
Fang64which i guess causes the issue15:02
Fang64not really sure about the whole thing I'm just curious why the package is broken15:03
Fang64tontsa recommended just installing it manually by extracting out the package which I'll probably end up doing at this rate15:04
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fnordianslipi installed some other ncurses packages and clear was installed in /usr/bin15:05
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Fang64on OS2007?15:06
fnordiansliper, no. 2008. sorry, not paying attention.15:06
tontsayeah the os2008 ncurses package works just fine15:06
Fang64lol, it's fine I've been a bit confused why this isn't working right15:06
tontsamaybe the beta-2008 differs from the n810's 200815:07
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Fang64well I didnt flash to the beta 200815:08
Fang64that's the thing15:08
Fang64I kind of jumped the gun and grabbed the N810 OS2008 and flashed mine to it15:08
Fang64I got it installed and running then downgraded after looking at the repos and seeing a lack of applications15:08
Fang64I was running 42-18 which is probably not supported I take it15:09
halleyThe N810 image is not going to work properly on an N800.15:10
Fang64I know this15:10
Fang64but I was dabbling around with it when i first got it15:10
Fang64anyhow i don't imagine that causing the issue I'm having now15:11
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Fang64back to the drawing board then15:13
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Takmorning pupnik15:18
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Takany emu news?15:19
dpb_emo news?15:20
* Tak stabs dpb_ 15:20
* dpb_ dies15:20
pupnikno just offtopic stuff in my life15:20
pupnikdeath and taxes, literally15:21
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Rocketmansorry to hear that pupnik15:22
keesjI am typing this on a "old" ibm thinkpad 560 with 40 mb ram(runnig puppy linux). it realy makes me wonder how much more I will use the keyboard enabled 810 as opposed to th n80015:23
keesjanybody already running elinks/screen/ssh as main gui?15:23
RocketmanThe problem is that it isn't a very good keyboard keesj15:24
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RocketmanI'm still bringing my BT keyboard around with me15:24
keesjRocketman: am sorry to hear that!15:25
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keesjI was also thinking of an eeepc, it is getting hard to choose these days15:25
RocketmanI honestly might go back to my n80015:25
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keesjGPS is not the killer attribute?15:26
pupnikhow does the thumby keyboard suck?15:26
wumpuswhat's wrong with the n810, when just not using the keyboard?15:26
RocketmanThe GPS is really bad, keesj15:26
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Rocketmanvery sub-par performance15:27
Rocketmantop row of keys too close to screen for easy typing15:27
keesjWell you don't really sound like a happy customer :p15:27
Rocketmankeys themselves not raises/convex enough15:28
Rocketmanmissing several important keys15:28
Rocketmanmany others on second function15:28
keesjhmm, I don't use a bt keyboard becase I want to "internet" on the go (in bed or in front of th tv)15:29
pupnikall i see are a lot of gaming buttons :)15:29
Rocketmanno press and hold for second function as is standard on almost all sliders15:29
sp3000"on the go, in bed"15:29
keesjsorry on th move in bed15:29
Rocketmand-pad center button oversized and 4 way hard to press15:29
pupniki hope you don't use the tablet 'on the move in bed' :)15:30
Rocketmanwith "up" button too close to screen edge as well15:30
pupnikyeah that dpad made me shed a tear or too15:30
keesjpupnik: no , poor video recording quality15:30
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pupnikwell thoughtfix was typing real fast on it in his demo vid15:31
RocketmanAll in all, it is an extremely poorly executed slider keyboard15:31
pupnikah, i'll probably be a schlub who is happy with it based on nothing to compare it to15:32
Rocketmanthat combined with the sub-par gps, loss of full size sdhc cards, etc will probably drive me back to n800 once OS 2008 is released15:33
RocketmanPupnik, I have tried out four sliders at length and this is worst of the bunch15:33
Rocketmanterrible ergonomics15:33
keesjI must say that the last two projects I started where video driven.(gst-motion-control/and a video game)15:34
Rocketmansomeone needs to be fired15:34
pupnikwell that's constructive negative feedback15:34
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RocketmanI grumble a lot, but I have specific bones to pick15:35
pupnikso you'd have preferred maybe 1-2 millimeter more thickness to accomodate a thicker keyboard?15:35
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RocketmanThe screen needs to have slid up more, as the top row is extremely hard to press15:36
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pupnikyeah that seems pretty clear.  wonder why that wasn't possible15:36
sp3000or you could borrow my thumbs15:36
Rocketmanthey don't even need bigger keys necessarily, but the tops of them need to be more curved15:37
* sp3000 would like some friction guidance on the caps though15:37
RocketmanI just don't think they paid enough attention to ergonomics in general15:38
RocketmanAt least they fixed the full screen and +/- buttons15:38
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RocketmanThe 800 was a step down from the 770 as an ebook reader because of the conjoined top keys15:39
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pupnikwhat slider keyboard did you like?15:41
fysanokia has their priorities completely wrong.  they have marketing design the product, and the people that actually use it get to put up with their decisions.15:42
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pupnikif only marketing designed it, would it run linux? :)15:43
RocketmanI agree, fysa, I feel too much goes into adding another bullet point for marketing and not enough into useability and customer feedback15:43
RocketmanI took their customer surveys twice15:43
keesjcustomer feed-back was really "we need a keyboard" and now we hav it15:43
Rocketmanand the questions were always aweful15:43
fysaall they needed was to listen to a single developer there.15:44
pupnikand Rocketman is claiming to know of products with far superior slider keyboards15:44
pupniki'd be curious what those products are15:44
fysaI've heard bad things about that keyboard from Nokia folk.15:44
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Rocketmanstuff on the order of how important is color to you when choosing a lifestyle device15:45
fysamarketing focus group bullshit15:45
RocketmanOQO model 2 keyboard not bad15:45
KhertanRocketman > it's not the same sized device15:45
fysaI love Maemo.15:45
keesjI am not trying to say the keyboard is good(I don't have it). But I think that they do listen to the demand(perhaps a bit late, and therefore in device iterations......)15:45
fysaThe hardware needs some more love though.15:45
fysathey listened as far as 'we need a keyboard' -- but they didn't bother to test it properly.  they half-assed it.15:46
nomisThe Psion 3* series keyboard was pretty usable.15:46
Rocketmanlatest HTC sliders are much improved over first gen15:46
fysashows lack of leadership somewhere15:46
pupnikwhen i look at that, i see a lot of my life15:46
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pupnik   an old graphic about the long road to success, and the pitfalls15:47
n800userpeople want what they can't have.. like a practical keyboard at such a small size15:47
fysano, not practical -- just not idiotic15:47
fysaif they a test to an internal developer and asked for feedback, the keys would not be that close to the upper case.15:47
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Rocketmann800user, they could have done much better in the same dimensions15:47
fysaand they would have a bit more curve.15:47
n800userwhy not use a bt or onscreen keyboard?15:47
fysafor fucks sake15:47
fysathis is the n81015:48
fysathe entire purpose was to get the slide-out :)15:48
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fysaslide-out is a beautiful idea because it gets you extra screen real-estate15:48
fysayou get to type and see what you're doing15:48
keesjn800user: no no no. I want a working solution. I am ready to even learn a new keyboard type or whatever is required, but it must b a workable solution.15:48
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fysaI'm not giving Nokia a pass for making 'effort'15:49
fysathis is 2007.15:49
Rocketmanyour average treo or blackberry is more thumb typeable15:49
n800userRocketman, Yeah, they could've done a better job.15:49
keesjRocketman: I agree15:49
n800userkeesj, a working keyboard that's integrated into the NIT?15:50
fysathe n810 looks gorgeous at least. :)15:50
keesjNIT? I can ready for surgery/ learing a weird 5 key keyboard,15:50
RocketmanI am a form follows function kinda guy15:51
fysabut I will be waiting for the "n900:15:51
RocketmanMy devices are tools, not freaking fashion accesories15:51
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keesjfysa: why wait, while you can already have fun right now15:52
fysahave a n80015:52
fysaand a bt keyboard..15:52
fysahaving plenty of fun, but if I spend money on a device in this class right now, it honestly would probably be an EEE.15:52
n800userI like my n800 and bt keyboard & gps15:53
fysajust to use in different occasions15:53
pupnikdiffrent class imo15:53
fysaEEE is something that could hang out in my glove box15:53
n800userboth perform better then the built in15:53
nomisfysa: the EEE is IMHO not that sexy.15:53
fysanot looking for sexy ;)15:53
fysaI work at the computer all day and always on call some way or another..15:53
fysaI want freedom15:53
keesjI used an eee for 5 minutes and I lovd it15:53
n800userditto.. Longer battery life and possible use as a phone would be my two biggest requests15:54
fysaN800 is something that can go with me anywhere, EEE is something I could take somewhere when I want to work out of the house15:54
pupnikthe nokia 770 cured me of my psion mourning15:54
RocketmanI am considering a Fujitsu U81015:54
fysa(or on the plane)15:54
keesjstill , I was complaining about they keyboard that was to small for real vi sesisons15:54
fysayeah, for the EEE?15:54
nomisfysa: The EEE unfortunately is Intel-based and sucks up a lot of enrgy.15:55
fysaI hate to push it again, but the Apple Wireless keyboard is the smallest usable keyboard I've ever tried.15:55
nomisfysa: Also the Keyboard can at best used with a two-finger system.15:55
n800userooo.. it's kind of cool15:55
keesjeee = more speed , better keyboard , better sound , more memory ......15:55
wumpusbut very bad battery time15:56
fysafull size keys with excellent spacing.  it looks like a laptop keyboard, is way lighter than the batteries it takes, and feels nearly as good as my old IBM clicky15:56
RocketmanI found the Librettos and Journadas quite touch-typeable15:56
fysayou can get 2GB into it now15:56
nomisfysa: yeah, the apple KB looks great.15:56
n800userfysa, I like the apple keyboard too, but have you tried the stowaway? it's not too bad either15:56
nomis(does the wireless one also have this caps-lock-hack?15:56
fysaif they extended the EEE screen all the way left/right and ditched the speakers (or put them underneath/elsewhere somehow), I would be happy.15:56
keesjwumpus: my n800 with gmail loaded does not survie a morning, and if by chance I don't plug it in at night it wakes me up!15:57
fysaI really want 1024x480 or so15:57
n800userI loved my libretto. it took a bit of an adjustment to the keyboard but I think they're going for different ways of interacting15:58
keesjI guess the real question is what do you use you n800 for?15:58
fysaI'm trying to shoehorn my life/work into it ;)15:58
Rocketmanpupnik, checkout the keyboard on the toshiba portege g90015:58
n800usern8x0 shouldn't really be a minicomputer... it should just be a mobile device that works with the internet.15:59
fysaI don't know -- I remap caps lock to CTL15:59
n800userI'm using mine for the radio atm15:59
nomisfysa: then the apple wireless might bite you:
fysathat's my only complaint with this keyboard -- it seems to register caps lock more slowly and doesn't work as CTRL so well.15:59
nomisah, it bit you already  :)15:59
n800usermessaging, VoIP, maemo mapper15:59
n800userwatching movies etc16:00
keesjn800user: OTG?16:00
pupnikRocketman: the top row is flush against the case16:01
n800userand browsing the net from the couch when I'm too lazy to go to the computer or when I'm annoyed of the fans on my computers16:01
keesjyou have some free traffic gprs phone?16:01
fysaget the most use of the n800 in the bathroom ;)16:01
n800userkeesj, only maemomapper and watching movies OTG16:01
n800userI also have a iphone so I use that when away from wifi16:01
keesjfysa: how is that?16:01
RocketmanI was referring to the way the keys bulge16:02
Rocketmanto make the easy to press16:02
keesjshave app or do you have kids like m?16:02
n800userlol.. yeah, in the bathroom too, I played alot of sudoku16:02
fysastopped magazine subscriptions, everything is here ;)16:02
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keesjwhat I really use are "radio" wikipedia(when walking the dog, one article already downloaded) and with it2008 pdf sheets because the pdf reader really is gettint to a very usable state16:03
keesjon it2007 i love to watch natali del conte?16:04
n800useroh yeah, that was the video center wasn't it?16:05
keesjyour technology news upload16:05
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pupnikyeah that seems obvious, having a bulge16:06
keesjI hope some day I will be able to use it as video phone16:06
n800userDoes anyone really like the new icons?  I was hoping for something with color16:07
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n800userI think it can do SIP w/ h.32316:08
keesjno, gizmo video does not work under linux and my parent's cant install it16:08
keesjbut the maemo platform gave me my current job. And I love to see the evolution of the devices. it is also funny that when the n800 came out everybody wanted a cover16:10
n800userAh.. any idea if wine could run gizmo?16:10
n800userlol.. a cover is still a nice idea16:10
keesjthe 810 has a on/off button right?16:11
n800userdunno, only have a n80016:11
inzkeesj, N810 has a power key similar to that of N800 and 77016:12
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Rocketmananyways....and now to bed16:15
keesjinz was it you who started a translusive keyboard for the xterm?16:15
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inzkeesj, I was concidering it, but never started implementing16:21
keesjI hav played with it at some point, so It must b somebody else :p16:21
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Takkeesj: there's the one I made using rubygame ;-)16:28
keesjno it was a hack in the xterm "vte" lib or something, the keyboard was movable16:30
KhertanDoes someone has already built python binding for gtksourceview ?16:32
TakI can't imagine that there wouldn't be one16:32
Takbtw, what would be the advantage of moving to sbox2?16:32
Khertansbox2 ?16:34
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KhertanHi alterego !16:36
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* Tak indicates the topic16:38
keesjit was jtra16:38
alteregoooo .. What's that then? :D16:38
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alteregoWhat about sbox2 with maemo4 ? Surely that's more appropriate ^_^16:39
inzTak, sbox2 is supposed to be thinner, cleaner (and faster?)16:39
Takcan't go wrong with thinner, cleaner, and faster(?)16:39
* Tak stabs desmume packagers for unnecessary quilt dep16:40 !!!16:40
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alteregoWell, now I finally appear to have set up my system properly I can install scratchbox into a 32bit KVM :)16:42
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alteregoWhich I think I'll do now ..16:44
pupnikTak it's built here16:47
pupnikif i can help let me know16:47
pupnikoh wait, did I lie?16:48
Takpupnik: how much hacking did you have to do to build it?16:48
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Takit looks like their "I don't have gtkglext" fallback doesn't compile :-/16:48
pupniki don't remember anything16:49
Khertanalterego> do u successfully compile gedit last time ?16:49
pupnikshall i tgz it to you?16:49
L0cutusthere are some problem with bluez-utils16:49
pupnikthen you can diff whatever you want16:49
pupnikdesmume-cli is built16:49
pupniki have no notes16:49
Takpupnik: sure - email probably best16:50
alteregoKhertan, I was making progress. Haven't finished it yet though.16:50
alteregoKhertan, my system died, so I've spent the last 4 days building and installing a new one.16:50
alteregobuilding, installing, reinstalling, reinstalling, reinstalling ... Until today :)16:51
alteregoIdeally, I'd prefer to use Debian over Ubuntu. Unfortunately there's something very off with the display drivers in Debian that appear to be patched properly in Ubuntu.16:52
Takmoo?  what display drivers?16:52
alteregoThe intel drivers.16:53
Takhmm - seems to be ok here; maybe I have a lucky chipset ;-)16:53
alteregoTak, the problem seems to affect all from i810 up :)16:53
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alteregoMine was a bit more severe than others though. X wouldn't shut down. It just hung my system.16:54
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Takhmm - are we talking about etch?16:54
alteregoI even pulled X from testing and unstable but they both suffered the same fault :(16:55
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alteregoIt's a shame, because the debian gnome desktop _feels_ so much more stable and solid than the Ubuntu gnome desktop :/16:55
Takah - I'm running unstable, and it works ok here16:56
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alteregoThankfully, I appear to have ironed out the issues I had with Ubuntu/gnome/compiz so it feels a bit more solid.16:56
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* Tak wobbles some windows in celebration16:57
alteregoI don't like the window wobbling :P16:57
alteregoI'm trying to find the option that stops windows going off the edge of virtual desktops. But to no avail.16:57
TakI do; it gives the windows a more solid feel, which makes it easier to arrange them IMO16:58
alteregoHah, wobbly windows feel more solid to you? :D16:58
Takheh - I mean, they feel like they have mass16:59
Takgnome-compiz-manager might give you more configuration options16:59
alteregoActually, they do seem to snap a bit better around the edges.16:59
alteregoThat was one of my problems with ubuntu compiz before.16:59
alteregoYeah, I've been using that.16:59
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alteregoI like the "shiver" effect on dialogs :D17:00
alteregoIt's nice sticking scratchbox/maemo SDK in it's own KVM though.17:03
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Khertanpffffff stupid scratchbox !17:17
Khertanoups ... ww17:18
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Khertan_VMsourceview is available on os2008 ?17:22
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alteregoKhertan, nope.17:25
alteregoThough I'm having to package it. So it will be ;)17:25
Khertan_VMarg i think i t was available ...17:25
Khertan_VM /s/i t/it17:26
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Khertan_VMcould u make python binding with it ? :-)17:26
Khertan_VMthe last version is the 1.6 right ?17:28
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alteregoCan't you?17:36
alteregoYou know I don't do Python :P17:36
Khertan_VMi ll :-)17:36
Khertan_VMi just need the lib and dev :)17:36
alteregoHell, the python binding should already exist. It just needs to be compiled. It should be part of the pygnome/gtk stuff17:36
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Khertan_VMit s exist already, but i m compiling gtksourceview now17:37
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Khertan_VME: Couldn't find package gtk-doc17:38
Khertan_VMgrrrr ... no make dist ...17:39
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Khertan_VMNo package 'gtksourceview-2.0' found17:40
Khertan_VMseem s a make install isn t enought17:40
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Khertan_VMmaybe i should try with debian source package17:41
alteregoThat's a very good idea ;)17:42
alteregoBut you'll still need gtk-doc17:42
alteregoWhich is actually installed as a devkit.17:43
Khertan_VMarg ... it s still 1.8.5 on debian17:43
alteregoUse unstable or testing17:43
Khertan_VMgtk-doc ? so i should have it17:43
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alteregoYeah, I think you need to add the devkit (doctools) and add the pkg-config path of the devkit into your PKG_CONFIG_PATH variable.17:44
alteregoMost of those labels are probably wrong by-the-way.17:44
jigois there an easy way of autoloading a gui application when the device starts up? I tried adding entries in the /etc/rc*d. but it didn't load automatically17:44
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Khertan_VMuh ? the wmware is a feisty and not a debian17:44
Khertan_VMs/wmware/vmware image17:45
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rene4jazzhi all, I tried to intall nfs-common package  on OS 2007 HE for my n770 and because of dependencies it uninstalled osso-core, osso-connectui, etc17:46
rene4jazznow I re-flashed the OS to be capabable of networking again17:47
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JaffaGoing back to earlier: my Eee's very cool, and I love having it (easier to watch videos on with wife than on N810); but it's just not as *fun* as an N810. It's just a small, cheap, laptop.17:55
pupnikJaffa: yeah- in that category it's a good thing of course17:55
pupnikas prior subnotebooks were very pricey17:55
Khertan_VM apt-get source gtksourceview217:56
Khertan_VMoups ww17:57
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zoranJaffa, do you have vanilla xandros or something else on eee?17:58
alteregoYou really call the eee pc a sub notebook?17:58
alteregoI'd have thought it's the perfect notebook size.17:58
alteregoBut yes, it's cheap :)17:59
zorandoesn't look in the same category as 770/800/81017:59
Khertan_VMs/wmware/vmware image/scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: debian/control: Permission denied18:01
Khertan_VMmake: *** [clean] Error 118:02
Khertan_VMyeah /18:02
Khertan_VMi like that /18:02
zoranPermission denied18:02
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Khertan_VMyes ...but i m root18:03
zoranlinux or bsd?18:03
Khertan_VMlinux :)18:04
zoranso, no security levels?18:04
Khertan_VMmaemo scratchbox18:04
dragornKhertan: looks like it's trying to execute debian/control?18:04
zoranmaybe the wrong prompt18:04
dragornor you're not running the pkg build under fakeroot18:04
Khertan_VMit s seem that it try to execute control18:04
Khertan_VMdragorn: i ve running it with fakeroot18:05
zoranJaffa didn't answer, but there is custom debian distro for eee18:06
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Khertan_VMpffff and it s source from a gutsy packet18:09
dpb_Khertan_VM: you're not root inside scratchbox18:09
keesjwould the whole qemu/sbox run on eee?18:09
zoranprobably yes, but is is a small flash ram18:09
Khertan_VMstill so boring to compile existing source providing from the gnu community18:10
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Khertan_VMdpb_: you can :)18:10
Khertan_VMi ve try both18:10
dpb_you can? I thought you couldn't login as root..18:10
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dpb_Yeah, you can't. The login script checks for root and doesn't allow root to login.18:11
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timelessdpb: you can log into root18:12
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timelessoh, in scratchbox18:13
timelessyuck, who uses scratchbox? P:)18:13
dpb_Yeah. :)18:13
Khertan_VMfakeroot sh give you root no ?18:13
dpb_no, that's just a FAKE root.18:13
Khertan_VM:) oups ... true18:13
Khertan_VMjust verified18:14
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Khertan_VMso ... the problem is mainly that the rule debian package try to execute debian/control18:14
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dpb_what does 'ls -l debian/control' say?18:15
Khertan_VM-rwxrwxrwx  1 root root 3072 Dec 17 11:29 debian/control18:18
dpb_that surely doesn't look right18:19
dpb_are you still running sh with fakeroot?18:19
dpb_did you get/unpack those sources as root outside of scratchbox?18:21
timelessis this from a debian sourceball? :)18:21
Khertan_VMit s from a ubuntu sourceball18:21
timelessdid you do: fakeroot apt-get source? :)18:21
Khertan_VMi m getting the debian package ...18:22
timelessalthough really, the root bit would only have happened if you either really were root when you did it18:22
timelessor are really confused now :)18:22
dpb_yeah :)18:22
timelessbecause only root can actually create or make files with owner/group root18:22
Khertan_VMtimeless: yes ... i get using it with sudo apt-get source ... but i should be able to compile it with fakeroot18:23
Khertan_VMand i shouldn t be 777 for all file18:23
Khertan_VMs/i/it s18:23
dpb_uh, no no18:24
dpb_apt-get source doesn't need root, run it without sudo18:24
dpb_so the permissions will be right18:24
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timelessyeah, sudo apt-get source was your problem18:26
timeless"don't do that"18:26
Khertan_VMmaybe :)18:26
Khertan_VMsamething ... with the ubuntu package18:27
timeless"don't do that"18:27
Khertan_VMseems to work with the debian one18:27
Khertan_VMdon't do that ? using ubuntu package yes i know .... :)18:28
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timelessdon't do: sudo apt-get source18:29
timelesssudo should be used for installing, not getting sources18:29
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Khertan_VMthere is news about discount code ? i ve try the 15th but don t see news18:32
Andy80hi all18:32
Khertan_VMhi alone :)18:32
pupnik5 days Khertan_VM18:35
Khertan_VMthx for the link18:36
Khertan_VMgtksourceview compiled :)18:36
|R5 days?18:37
Khertan_VMi mainly see that : I’m still reluctant to give any exact day18:38
* |R puts 2¢ on the 19th :P18:39
Andy8019 is the last day here (italy) to have it delivered before 25th :P18:40
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|RConsidering that Canada just got added, i thought i wouldn't be able to get it before february, so that's good enough for me :D18:42
zopodocan i have skype running while in stanby mode and then have the nokia n800 load up and ring when someone is giving me a skype call?18:42
X-Fade_|R: Can't be as bad as NL: ;)18:43
X-Fade_The shop isn't even open to the public ;)18:43
|Rhaha indeed :)18:43
Khertan_VM499 $ on france store .... hiccccckkkkkk18:44
|R499 E !18:44
|Rthat's more like 750 :P18:44
Andy80lol :D18:44
Khertan_VMouch euro i mean18:44
|R654 USD18:44
pupnikha ha germany is cheaper18:44
Khertan_VM(swithing between vm ... different keyboard layout)18:45
Khertan_VMspain is 400 Euros18:45
pupnikspain wins18:45
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Fang64Tontsa: I caved in and switched back to OS2008, couldn't get the ncurses-bin package to work right.18:45
Khertan_VMdon t why there are this diff18:45
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pupnikgovernment regulations18:45
|Rgermans should be ritcher than french no?18:46
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infobot|R meant: germans should be richer than french no?18:46
Khertan_VMbof ...18:46
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Khertan_VMthe german country is more rich than the french one18:46
|Ryeah, but i guess berlin is poor hehe18:47
Khertan_VMbut people ... don't know18:47
Khertan_VMdh_pycentral: Command not found18:47
Khertan_VMsomeknow where i can found this command ?18:48
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pupnikdeb helper python crap?18:48
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bedboi|R: in italy it's rated 45018:49
dpb_in debian it's atleast in the python-central package18:49
bedboiwtf is this18:49
zopodocan i have skype running while in stanby mode and then have the nokia n800 load up and ring when someone is giving me a skype call?18:49
X-Fade_bedboi: VAT.18:49
* |R wonders what the price will be in north america for discount code holder...18:50
bedboiX-Fade_: i don't think so. In italy we have 20%18:50
X-Fade_bedboi: VAT & Shipping?18:50
X-Fade_And VAT on Shipping ;)18:50
dragornzopodo: no idea.  try it.18:50
Tak|R: supposed to be 99E18:51
dragornzopodo: depends if skype is wakeup-aware18:51
|RTak : so 145$ ?18:51
Takso, depending on current exchange rate, anywhere from $130 to $60018:51
|Rahha :)18:51
Andy80bedboi: "we"? are you italian?18:52
Khertan_VMdh_pycentral not found in debhelper ...18:53
kaieis it possible that network will fall asleep, too? When I'm logged in from my pc to the n810 over ssh, after a while the ssh connection will be frozen18:53
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kaieIf the network connection falls asleep, I suppose the skype network will conclude you're offline18:54
alteregoDoesn't appear to happen with me.18:54
zopodohas skype been released for the n800?18:54
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dragornYes.  Though my experiences with the os2008 beta + skype left a lot to be desired18:54
Khertan_VMnor dh-buildinfo18:54
keesjzopodo: yes (for it2007 and it2008 beta)18:54
zopodois there an option to have skype wake aware?18:54 seem s to be down18:55
zopodoi don't have the n800 yet but if i can have skype wake aware, then i'll most likley get it18:55
keesjwhat is wake aware?18:56
alteregoI wonder, if when maemo is finally fully buildable from source. We'll be able to compile using the host toolchain ..18:56
alteregoThat'd be neat.18:57
keesjthe first skype release for it2008 did not work well for me , it was not possible to have a long disc. I have not tried it yet again18:57
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keesjthe host toolchain as in  x86?18:58
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zopodokaie, can i have the n800 in low power mode and have a connection for skype?18:59
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kaiezopodo, I don't know19:00
zopododoes anyone have an example photo or video of the quality of the n800 cam?19:01
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kaieI'm conducting an experiment. I have skype started on the n810, signed in with account A. on the pc I signed in to skype using account B. I'll not touch the n810 for 20 minutes then I'll look what happens when I use the pc to contact A19:02
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kaiefeel free to remind in 20 minutes if you're curious about the result19:03
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bedboiAndy80: yep, i happen to be italian19:10
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zepedeis it possible to have the n800 in standby mode and have WiFi connected at the same time/19:19
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kaieI just sent a skype message from pc to n810 after 20 minutes not using the device. The n810 made noise, so the connection is apparently still active19:23
zepedeis the n810 in standby mode?19:24
zepedewhat about the n800/19:25
pupnikit is in dominate world mode19:25
zepedeis it in stab pupnik in the eye mode?19:26
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* Tak always in that mode19:26
kaieall I can tell, the display was black and the device had switched to "locked"19:26
kaiehow do you define "standby mode"?19:27
kaiein addition, I remember that I have the network idle time disabled, changed to "always keep connection"19:27
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zepededoes the battery in the n800 die down after use like the iphone batteries?19:30
kaiezepede, every battery I'm aware of eventually dies down after a lot of use. if that happens, replace the battery I'd say...?19:31
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zepedecan you buy replacement batteries for the n800?19:31
zepedeor are they proprietary nokia stuff that cost $500?19:31
Takseems to be a fairly good market for them on ebay and similar19:32
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kaiezepede, have you tried reading the product information pages and info on availably accessiores on
X-Fade_zepede: You have never owned anthing from Nokia, have you? :)19:32
zepedekaie, yes a bit, and x-fade: no19:32
X-Fade_zepede: About every phone/device they made since 199x had replacement batteries..19:34
zepededoes x forwarding work?19:36
inzX-Fade, iPhone!19:36
inzX-Fade, sorry, missed the "they"19:36
X-Fade_inz: Soldering iron battery replacements ;) Fun..19:36
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zepedeis $250 a good price for n800?19:43
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Fang64yo zepede has them for 228 free shipping20:00
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zepedeFang64: i live in canada20:02
Fang64zepede ah that's a problem20:03
Fang64confused me for a bit20:03
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Pavlzi got a problem with kismet21:23
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blkorpheusanyone have fuppes compiled and running properly?21:24
PavlzServer options: none21:24
PavlzClient options: none21:25
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PavlzStarting server ...21:25
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PavlzWaiting for server to start before starting .21:27
bedboiany further info about canola2?21:27
alteregobedboi, it was a hoax. It never really existed. Like the N81021:28
Pavlz/usr/bin/kismet_server : error while loadiy21:29
alteregoProbably a typo21:29
Pavlz[1]  + Done (127)        $ {BIN} /ki}21:31
PavlzWhat does mean all this ?21:31
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PavlzI have not understood the real problem of nokia21:32
Pavlzit seems got a problem with kismet_server21:33
Pavlzanyone can help me ?21:34
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Pavlzi got the os 200621:34
Pavlzi must update to 200721:35
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PavlzI have logged myself using21:35
Pavlzsudo gainroot21:36
alteregoWhy not 2008?21:36
Pavlzand i have try to use21:36
Pavlzapt-get update21:36
Pavlzapt-get dist-upgrade21:36
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Pavlzbut kernel, dependencies... never updated21:37
Pavlzso i am to the old kernel version
Pavlzok i try to update my self to the os 200821:39
giskardbarisione, :P21:40
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FMzAny ideas on the final release date of OS2008 for n800?21:42
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Pavlzi got many problems with this nokia and many times i needed to go to the assistance and last time, they removed me the root access so i needed to use how to become root without have on the screen the image of mounting the debian gnu/linux operating system on the nokia21:44
alteregoI didn't understand a word of that.21:44
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FMzOh wow... that's like Engrish v2.021:45
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Pavlzwhere i can download os 2008 for nokia 770 ?21:46
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alteregoOh, you're using one of _those_ ..21:50
* alterego doesn't support the 77021:50
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Pavlzwhat is the difference between nokia n800 an n810 ?21:54
BeBrawprice, keyboard, gps, screen21:55
tontsathere's what's changed from n80021:55
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Pavlzand cpu ?21:56
alteregoAlso, storage options and size.21:56
tontsasame cpu on both21:56
tontsajust see the article21:56
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alterego(and USB connector)21:56
alteregoAnd buttons.21:56
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tank-mandoes anyone know if the ps3 bluetooth gamepad work with the n800?22:13
alteregoDoes it work with Linux?22:13
tank-manyea, i think so22:13
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tank-manworks with the ps3 with linux installed on it i think22:14
alteregoffs ..22:14
tank-manjust wondering if someone has done it with the n80022:14
alteregoWhy does everything rely on Python now-a-days.22:14
alteregoI can't install the SDK into a base system without python. How lame ..22:14
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derfBecause people like writing software in Python.22:15
alteregoThis is a bash script ..22:16
alteregoIt probably uses python for something _Really_ lame ..22:16
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derfProbably, but the person writing it found it easier to do it in Python than think about how to do it somewhere else.22:16
derfPeople use the tools they're comfortable with.22:17
derfIt doesn't actually matter much how well-suited those tools are for the task at hand.22:17
alteregoNot to them it probably doesn't ..22:17
derfThey're the ones writing the code.22:18
alteregoSpecifically for other people ..22:19
derfYeah, how much do you think your average developer considers other people?22:19
derfEspecially in the open-source world.22:19
alteregoHmm .. This is actually scratchbox .. So I guess that makes it a little better.22:19
alteregoI wonder why they don't use their own python ..22:20
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* melmoth wonders wich system alterego use that does not comes with python by default.22:21
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alteregomelmoth, debian base install :P22:26
alteregoI'm creating a KVM for scratchbox.22:26
melmothi did a xen image for it :)22:26
alteregoThe idea is having it as minimal as possible you see ;)22:26
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melmothhmm. i did not care about size, it s stored on an external usb drive anyway.22:27
melmothi just installed debian clicking on next/next/next22:27
alteregoI don't like waste. Sorry, I know I'm pretty anal ;)22:27
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melmothi think i even got openoffice installed there.22:28
* alterego chuckles.22:29
alteregoYeah, your probably did the desktop install :)22:29
melmothmust be the default one :)22:29
alteregoYeah, it is.22:29
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Takalterego: I agree22:31
kalahow can I trust some CA in the OS2008 ?22:32
alteregoIt's on the Control Panel kala22:32
alteregoUnder "Certificate Manager" or some such.22:32
kalaright, the Certificate Manager is there22:33
kalaok, and thereis Import.22:34
alteregoThat's okay :P22:35
Tak(doesn't actually work for me)22:35
alteregoGreat .. segfault ..22:36
kalajee, this fixed my Outlook Web Access crash22:38
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* alterego starts from scratch.22:41
alteregoRight, now I know the process works. Time to do it properly.22:41
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pat26hi.  I would like to install a dual boot system with OS2008 as the main system and 0S2007 on a SD card. Is it possible ?23:13
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pat26The link I found is about N770.  Any change ?23:17
alteregoWhat's an "N770"?23:18
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pat26N770 device (mine is an n800)23:18
alteregoI don't remember an "N770" do you mean the "770"?23:19
pat26Nokia N77023:19
shackanbzzzt, wrong23:19
alteregoThere is no Nokia "N770" ..23:19
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alteregoI can't believe people still think it's N-series :D23:19
pat26is that so important ?23:20
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alteregoNo, being correct is never important.23:21
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pat26could you give me information about dual boot or do you prefer playing with words ?23:21
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alteregoThe instructions for dual booting an N800 or the 770 should be somewhat applicable. But I'm sure there will be differences.23:22
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alterego(OS2007) that is .23:22
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maddlerevening all!23:22
alteregoSo, by all means. Go ahead, if you have any questions then ask them more specifically. The process should be somewhat similar though.23:22
alteregoI think the only difference will be dealing with the initrd ..23:23
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protocol_I am trying to capture sound on N800 using ESD. There is a example application called "esdrec". "esdrec" works fine on the pc but does not work on N800. Any help would be appreciated regarding ESD on maemo platform.23:26
protocol_ESD socket is opened successfully but ESD socket reading fails to read correctly thus hangs on the reading phase.23:28
protocol_Is there some issues using ESD on maemo platform?23:28
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protocol_Does anybody know how to use esd in maemo platform?23:44
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protocol_I can not use gstreamer.23:44
protocol_I have to use esd to capture sound data from microphone.23:45
dragornI'd guess not.23:47
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youamit's not possible to use larger sd cards than 2gb in the n800, right?23:49
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skiburI'm using N800 - OS2008.  Any app that can read .doc files yet?23:50
blast007youam: on the site it says 8GB limit, but in the user manual it says 2GB23:51
blast007iirc, lists 2GB as well, so I'm just as confused ;)23:51
glass_2gb was probably biggest they tried before shipping23:51
glass_it didn't ship with sdhc support iirc originally23:51
youamanybody tried id with sdhc cards yet?23:52
glass_thus, 2gb limit on the shipping day specs23:52
glass_sdhc came in upgraded fw, no?23:52
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tontsayou need sdhc versions if you want to use bigger than 2gb atleast with n81023:53
youamglass_: is sd vs sdhc a software limitation? i thought it's hardware?23:53
glass_youam: sw in this case at least23:53
glass_if you can control the pins i don't know why it would be a hw issue, really...23:54
* |R just ordered a 8GB microSD for the n810 to come... :)23:55
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