IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2007-11-22

czrinz, sending an email on maemo-dev with questions about the files. let's see if anyone knows :-)00:01
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_berto_anyone with a 770 ?00:13
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p|'night all !00:16
l7so what do people use to sync files between the IT and computer?00:19
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czrl7, scp, usb, sshfs00:28
timelyxczr: i sent the bug around00:31
timelyxit'll try to go somewhere00:31
czrtimelyx, evenink to you too :-)00:32
czrI'm posting bugs00:32
timelyxgood for you00:32
czrsee #2338, #2339 and #234000:32
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joshinI still think that is running on a single 770.00:39
_berto_me too00:39
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_berto_solmumaha: I've been confirmed that the fix works, I've just released v0.3a for the 77000:59
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Andy80I tried Os2008 this evening on a N800 of a friend of mine01:18
Andy80very cool :)01:18
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alteregoAndy80, isn't it just :)01:23
Andy80what do you mean :) ?01:24
* bill20r3 waits patiently.01:24
alteregoI mean .. It's very cool, isn't it.01:25
alteregoI was agreeing with you :P01:25
l7hey, did anyone buy an extended warranty for their IT??01:27
l7i think some credit cards also give you some warranty01:28
bill20r3extended warranties are for suckers.01:29
bill20r3I've had my n800 for less than a year, and the N810 is out already. if the N800 breaks, I dont want another N800.01:29
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l7yeah i tend to be biased against extended warranties01:44
l7but i figured i would carry the n800 a lot01:44
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moutaI've just tried the "Launching Application Framework Environment" part in the maemo4.0 tutorial.01:44
l7so i figured the chances of it being  broken / damaged / stolen would be higher01:44
moutaI get the user interface showing in Xephyr but it doesn't appear as in the tutorial and doesn't get refreshed when menus pop out.01:46
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moutaDoes someone know what the problem is ?01:46
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mouta(sorry l7 for interleaving your text...)01:46
czrmouta, yes01:47
czrmouta, you're using a xephyr without composite extension01:47
czrdoes your xephyr start with the -extension Composite parameter?01:47
moutaI tried that but Xephyr complained about that option and I replaced it with -x01:47
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czryes. that's because your Xephyr does not support composite properly01:48
czr4.0 AF requires composite.01:48
czrthat's why you're seeing the problems. there's no easy way to go around it01:48
moutaShould I try to install xephyr from source ?01:48
czryou can use two chained Xephyrs. one with proper composite support, on which you'll start AF, and then direct that to your "old" xephyr without the composite support01:48
* czr shrugs01:48
czr"get a newer xephyr" is the only thing that I can really say01:49
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moutaok thanks01:49
czrmouta, I got bit by that exact same issue. 3.2 ran fine without composite. 4.0 does not :-)01:50
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moutaWell, I will try another Xephyr version. Thank you.01:52
l7mouta: np :)01:53
moutaOh btw, does xephyr (the 'other' version) would rely on the underlying X server to get Composite ?01:53
czrmouta, no01:54
czronly xephyr needs to support composite. your real X server does not require it01:54
moutaAll right, thanks.01:54
czrnp, good luck01:54
czrafaik this issue is not documented anywhere :-)01:54
czrtime to sleep01:56
czrnight timeless & others01:56
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Thana64czr, i don't like the new chinook graphical system, imho is better the bora one, but the system seems like to be a lot better :)02:06
pygiThana64: read what you wrote again :p02:07
alteregoYeah .. That didn't make any sense to me ..02:07
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Thana64pygi, sorry, i was out... let me see02:12
Thana64pygi, sorry, i don't found your nickname02:12
pygiehm, what are you talking about :P02:12
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Thana64nothing, just that i like more the graphical system of bora, chinook is ugly IMHO, but the system looks be a lot better than bora02:14
alteregoYou have a strange sense of aesthetics ..02:14
Thana64why ?02:15
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Thana64the new one is more simple... but less eyecandy02:16
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alteregoYou don't think true transparency is more eye candy?02:16
Thana64hum... that's not exactly the one that i have see...02:18
Thana64yes, that looks a lot better02:18
alteregoWhat have you been looking at? A windows XP screenshot?02:18
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pygialterego: I told you not to mention that in front of the parrots :P02:20
alteregoDoes that make me a Pirate?02:21
pygino idea :)02:21
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alteregoJeez, I'm gonna have to go to bed soon and I'm not finished yet :S02:23
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|tbb|is there a plug in for claws which notify u with led flashing when a new mail is arrived or anything like that?03:05
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rhykinis there anyway to reorganize the items in application menu?04:15
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K`zanrhykin: 2008?04:22
_Monkey2008 is probably the year of the open handheld/phone04:22
K`zanrhykin: I had a hell of a time getting any apps to move to other folders in 2008 and the only way to get rid of them is to uninstall them in application mananger.04:23
K`zanrhykin: You can, in theory, drag them from one folder to another, but as noted I did that up to 100 times on some and they just would not move, others moved after 5-10 tries, hope you have better luck.  Went back to 2007 over that :-/.04:25
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rhykinim running 200704:28
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|RIf i'm to mostly package something, should i start a garage project (what to do with SVN then?) or just do it on my own server (making it a pain to find / get...) ?04:39
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penguinbaitanyone watched the video on the n810 firmware?04:56
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fysamplayer out for n810 yet?05:06
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penguinbaitthere is a devel version fysa05:25
penguinbait chinook  free  non-free05:27
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zerojaypenguinbait: The N810 video clearly doesn't mean "processing speed", but flexibility of a desktop.06:08
penguinbaitit says power06:09
penguinbaitmaybe they mean 11006:09
K`zanAnyone know how to get rid of calls in Gizmo on the n800?  PC apps work with a right click, how does one right click on the n800?06:10
zerojay"get rid of calls" means what exactly?06:10
penguinbaitpress and hold06:10
K`zanErr press and hold what?06:10
K`zanAh, lemme try something06:11
K`zanAh!  Thanks VERY much penguinbait !06:11
K`zanSo press and hold is double click equivalent here?06:12
K`zanOr is that just in Gizmo?06:12
penguinbaituh er, most places06:13
zerojayIn general, click and hold = right click context menu and double tap = double click.06:13
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K`zanpenguinbait: Thanks, that really helps :-)!06:22
K`zanzerojay: You too, appreciate the help.  Loving this thing more as time goes on :-)!06:23
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l7hey, i read somewhere that nokia will replace a new n800 if it even has one dead pixel06:44
l7does anyone know if this is true for US customers?06:44
l7or n810 for that matter06:44
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Tb0n3I has a stuck red pixel in my 77006:54
|Ruhm wtf... my link on the 500 developer program is dead and my account was somewhat reseted... (while other works)06:54
Tb0n3but I only notice it on pure black06:54
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|Rheh ok..06:59
|Ri can access my profile, but this link dies, is there a link between that bug and this? :)07:02
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l7Tb0n3: :(07:12
l7probably too late to fix it now07:12
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Tb0n3I got it on amazon07:12
Tb0n3140 with a 1gig07:12
l7did you ask amazon for a replacement 770?07:12
Tb0n3it was an independent seller07:13
l7i think nokia might fix the screen, never hurts to ask07:13
l7ah, too bad07:13
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l7apple has a pretty poor dead pixel policy despite their supposed superior quality control07:16
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SyntraI just tested out the N800's Video Capabilities.07:20
SyntraI also found out they don't exist.07:20
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SyntraAre there ANY formats the N800 plays nice with?07:22
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mwesterDivx 400x240 works fine for me.07:24
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mwestermplayer is best, IMO.07:24
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l7uh oh07:28
l7so the n800 needs a converter?07:28
l7i suppose full resolution video is out of the question07:28
mwesterdepends on how many frames per second you need ;)07:29
mwester400x240 is about the limit AFAIK07:29
l7well 15-30 fps07:29
l7closer to 30fps would be nice :)07:29
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* mwester isn't sure what frame rate he's getting at 400x24007:30
l7well i guess 400x240 is close to the ipod's resolution07:30
l7mwester: can it play stretched out to full screen?07:30
mwesterI run it full-screen07:31
l7is it choppy?07:31
mwesterI haven't found it to be choppy, except when streaming from the network (and I blame that on my wireless network).07:32
mwesterI just lowered the data rate for streaming video, and it works ok.07:32
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l7i wonder if the speed of your SD card affects video07:36
l7and / or the amount of swap?07:36
|Rswap might benefit more i guess07:37
|Rbut video won't need more than 1MB/sec07:37
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mariorzanyone have the guile package for os2007 ?07:39
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SyntraOK, just about to give 352x240 DivX AVI a chance07:48
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SyntraThis converter must be screwed up or something07:49
Syntra254MB's for a 1 and a half minute long video?07:50
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mwesterSyntra:  That doesn't sound right at all.07:50
SyntraI'm trying it with a different video bitrate now...07:51
SyntraOh Boy! 253MB's!07:51
SyntraSo much smaller07:51
mwesterWhat are you using to convert?07:51
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SyntraArcSoft MediaConverter07:52
* mwester isn't familiar with that. :(07:52
SyntraWell what converter do you use, perchance?07:52
_MonkeyTablet-Encode is the new name for 770-encode and can be found at
mwesterYep.  I actually use the mediaserv program to feed mythtv video -- it uses tablet-encode to do the dirty work.  I've had no problems (that weren't of my own making, that is).07:56
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SyntraBut I wanna encode stuff so that my I can make use of my N800 in the car07:57
mwesterThen just use tablet-encode manually -- give it the original video clip and tell it what quality you want the result, then copy that to your SD card.  That works pretty well too.07:58
SyntraWait, is there another converter or something that only runs on windows?08:00
mwestertablet-encode claims to run on windows, doesn't it?08:01
SyntraUsing the command line08:02
SyntraI just found "Media Converter" by Kontori08:02
SyntraIt has a GUI!08:02
* mwester doesn't buy into the concept of selecting converters based on fancy GUIs... :)08:03
SyntraWell, I'm not too big on the command line myself08:03
SyntraWhich is why I don't use Ubuntu as much08:03
|RSyntra : it works well :)08:03
l7i thought ubuntu was supposed to be user-friendly?08:04
SyntraIt is08:04
l7(read: less command line)08:04
mwesterI just think of it this way: if its something that runs in the background (like a converter), then time spent by a developer on a fancy-schmancy GUI is time they DIDN'T spend on optimizing the software.08:04
SyntraOh this is not Fancy Schmancy08:04
l7maybe there is a frontend out there somewhere?08:04
SyntraBut it is nicer than having to use the commandline.08:04
|RMedia converter is a frontend to mencoder08:05
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SyntraWow, I'm liking that it shrunk a 10MB file to a 4MB file08:06
SyntraI'm happy now08:06
SyntraAnd in like 30 seconds (granted it was a minute and a half long video)08:06
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mariorzguile1.6 installed :)08:07
|RIf i'm to package something (Mostly without any code change), should i start a garage project (what to do with SVN then?) or just do it on my own server (making it a pain to find / get...) ?08:07
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|Rcan it be disabled (SVN) as it would lead to code replication from the official repository...08:07
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|Ranyone? :P08:13
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kulve|R: you can make garage project even if you don't want to use the SVN there08:25
trulsodd, python 2.5.1 (2.5.1-1osso3) in scratchbox seems to add build/lib.linux-i686-2.5 to sys.path, while the "normal" ubuntu one doesn't08:25
|Rkulve : ah good, I'll apply for one then, hoping the SVN won't cause too much confusion :)08:26
trulsyou could move your source to it...08:26
|Rwell it's not my project08:27
trulsi don't know if existing history is kept though, but it would be stupid if it wasn't08:27
|RI'm porting it mostly and packaging some stuff around too maybe08:27
|Rbut i'm not gonna play in the main code08:27
trulsyou'd still want to use svn for that though08:27
trulsbut only update the main code at certain points in time08:28
|Rlet's register one :)08:28
trulslike your svn and the main code svn wouldn't be syncrhonized in any way, but it shouldn't have to be, right?08:28
|Ri'm just going to use the main stuff in a way that is going to be pleasant on the n8x008:29
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trulssounds nice08:32
trulsit's more work when you have a package that has to work fine on several platforms08:32
trulsyou only have to concentrate on making it work for the n8x008:32
|Rhehe yes, well i'd like it to work on OpenMoko and other platforms too (OLPC, Eee, or whatever comes out with linux these days...) but ... anyway we'll start with maemo ;)08:33
vegaihow about porting openmoko to n810? :)08:33
|RWe'd need the n810 to be a phone for this to be useful i think :)08:33
* |R dies under a pile of rock from the phone vs no phone debate :P08:34
* truls realizes is different on n800/scratchbox and ubuntu08:35
trulsformer one runs addbuilddir()08:35
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doc|homeanyone here used these:  any opinions on them?08:50
doc|home(screen protectors)08:50
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* truls still havent' removed the one that came with the n80008:52
|Rdoc|home i do08:53
|Rthey're a pain in the ass to apply, like every shield...08:53
|Rbut they work :)08:53
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doc|homethose exact ones? why so?08:54
|Runless i'm mistaken08:54
|Rgive me a sec08:54
doc|homethere are so many different types and the one that came on it is already scratches 4 or 5 times in 24 hours :/08:54
|Roh no wait, a boxwave08:54
|Rnot the nushield or invishield...08:54
|Rdoc|home the original one is really just for protection during transport08:55
doc|homebah, I bought stuff from boxwave a coupe of weeks back, that's annoying :)08:55
doc|homethese ones are less expensive and use no adhesive, they clip in under the edge of the bezel08:55
|Rsounds weird :)08:56
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mbufhow can i take a backup of the images on the N800?09:29
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pupnikmbuf: images = bmp, jpg, gif?09:48
timelyx_Monkey forget food09:49
_Monkeytimelyx: I forgot food09:49
timelyx_Monkey food is <reply>09:49
_MonkeyOK, timelyx.09:49
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mbufpupnik, filesystem images09:49
mbufpupnik, other than dd, are there any tools to take a snapshot backup of the filesystem images?09:50
pupniki think not09:50
mbufpupnik, ok09:50
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pupniki installed multiboot to do image backups09:50
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swetlanddon't suppose anyone knows if nokia has released a umac.ko for 2.6.23 or .24 or if there's an effort somewhere to do an open driver for the N800 wifi? ^^10:04
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* timelyx rotfl10:06
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vegaiwhat sort of people buy the Amazon Kindle?10:11
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captlloydyay, they shipped my N810 today10:20
captlloydI was kinda annoyed that they said they came in on Monday and the even called me that day to make sure I still wanted my preorder, but then didn't ship until this last evening10:21
captlloydI'm just excited :)10:22
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mariorzdoes anyone know in which dir the mails for the ail app are stored? i think it downlaod to many and cant start10:37
pupniksry no10:41
pupnikmariorz: you can find recently changed files10:43
pupnikfind / -ctime -1010:44
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pupnikfinds all files changed in last 10 hours10:44
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* doc|home asks again:10:46
doc|homeanyone here used these:  any opinions on them?10:46
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mariorzpupnik: thx10:46
JaffaMorning, all10:52
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rothielHi guys :)11:29
doc|homecan you add search engines to the drop down list?11:32
doc|home(in the applets)11:32
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pupnikfrom the 'Home' menu doc|home ?11:33
doc|homei.e the desktop?11:33
pupnikok clicking on the globe in upper-left?11:34
pupnikyou can manage bookmarks by clicking on bookmarks11:35
pupnikhit menu: bookmark->new11:35
doc|homeright, nothing there listing google11:35
sp3000the desktop search applet, I think he means11:36
pupnikwell i have os2006 so it might ... ok i get it11:36
doc|homehmm, ok11:38
doc|homesleep time, night11:38
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Andy80_berto_: hi :)11:59
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_berto_solmumaha: in case you didn't notice I released a new package for the 77011:59
pupnikwo wat were12:00
pupnikpackage of what _berto_ ?12:01
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_berto_vagalume, a client12:01
czrhmm. can anyone throw me an url to where debs are downloaded from by apt-get in chinook?12:01
pupniksee /etc/apt/sources.list czr12:02
czrpupnik, no. that points to the repo, which doesn't contain the debs.12:02
_berto_debs are downloaded to /var/cache/apt/archives/12:03
_MonkeyHmm.  No matches for that, _berto_.12:03
pupnik?  what does a repository contain then?12:03
czr_berto_, from. not to.12:03
_berto_oh, sorry X-)12:03
_berto_those are included in the Packages list12:03
czrpupnik, open and see12:03
_berto_each entry in Packages file contains the url of the package12:03
_berto__Monkey: sorry ?12:04
_Monkeyno idea, _berto_12:04
pupnikyeah what he said12:04
czrah. yes. the packages files are inside the compressed rootstrap12:04
czrthat's why I didn't see them12:04
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czr was the thing I was looking for12:05
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czranyone know of a working process to do sdk installation in an offline scenario? if you do, drop me a privmsg12:07
czrand please don't ask "why don't you use the autoinstall script".12:07
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pupniksorry i wasn't more helpful12:07
X-Fadeczr: Why don't you use the vmware image ;)12:07
czrX-Fade, not possible12:07
czrbut yes, sneaky, sneaky.. I noticed what you tried to do! :-)12:08
* czr goes looking for salmons for x-fade12:08
czror trouts.12:08
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X-FadeHehe ;)12:08
_berto_alternatively you could use a qemu image ;-P12:08
X-Fadeczr: Can't help you there. I use the vmware image, which works quite well for me..12:09
czrbtw, makes me wonder. the announced vmware image. how on earth can they distribute the nokia binaries in it?12:09
X-Fadeczr: They don't.12:09
czrX-Fade, the announcement said they do12:09
X-FadeThere is an icon on the desktop to the autoinstaller..12:09
czrbleh :-)12:09
X-Fadeczr: Installing is pretty fast that way..12:10
X-FadeDid it in a few minutes..12:10
czrX-Fade, but won't work if you're offline12:10
czr_offline_. magic keyword.12:10
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X-Fadeczr: Just download the repository? And change the sources.list?12:10
czranyone notice anything funny about that?12:10
czrX-Fade, I doubt it will be all that painless. but yes, that's what I'm trying to do now.12:11
X-Fadeczr: The autoinstaller just grabs the i386 and armel debs and installs them?12:11
czrno. it will download the rootstrap which is a tar.gz12:11
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czrextract that, then run apt-get install12:11
X-FadeAh yeah, and then it runs it..12:12
czrwithin sbox12:12
czrand the rootstrap contains only useless cruft, most of the SDK comes via apt-get12:12
czrno one noticed anything funny in the _binary_ part of the pool where that directory points to?12:13
czrno? aww.12:13
czrI'll file a bug soon. nm12:14
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czrhmm. anyone know where apt-get upgrade will download its Package file?12:18
czrPackages even12:18
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i_mihaidoes anyone here has any know-how about bt-sco with maemo chinook?12:19
i_mihaiPING 1195692294 38883312:21
_berto_czr: from ?12:25
_berto_from the repo, dists/distribution/component/binary-arch/Packages12:27
czrthanks _berto_12:27
_berto_i.e, dists/bora/whatever/binary-armel/Packages12:28
_berto_or Packages.bz212:28
_berto_or Packages.gz12:28
czryup, found them12:28
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czrhmm. anyone know how critical the minimal rootstrap really is?12:51
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czri.e, if I manually create a new target in sbox first, then setup sources.list to point to chinook, and then install maemo-sdk-whatnot virtual package.12:51
czrwill it horribly break and dragons fly out of my nose?12:51
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timelessi think it's vaguely optional12:52
timelesssince you're in sbox12:52
timelessif you didn't have sbox (w/ debian dev kit)12:52
timelessyou'd probably be in more trouble12:52
czrwhat do you mean by optional?12:52
timelessbut i personally use a full rootstrap12:52
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czrbut full rootstrap doesn't contain the whole sdk anyway12:53
czrso it's not an option12:53
* timeless shrugs12:53
pupnikso install what you want and make your own sdk rootstrap12:53
timelesstimeless/chinook shows what you'd get w/o the rootstrap12:53
czrever noticed how after installing the full rootstrap, apt-get will still download a whole load of stuff?12:53
timelessi don't do it very often12:54
timelessi find it easier to borrow other people's computers when i actually need a build env12:54
czrpupnik, sounds "easy". how difficult would that be?12:54
pupniki think you are a person looking for problems, not solutions12:54
timelessczr: well, the script to grab sources for chinook is fairly trivial12:54
timelessand one that did installs would be a lot easier :)12:55
czrpupnik, tell it to whomever designed the install process not to support offline scenarios.12:55
czrpupnik, if you have a better idea, I'm all ears12:55
czrtimeless, my limit for trivial scripts is 5k. the install scripts are > 20k :-)12:56
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timeless-rwxr-xr-x   1 timeless webservd    4.3K Nov  7 03:06 /export/home/timeless/nexenta/bin/get_maemo.sh12:56
timeless-rwxr-xr-x   1 timeless webservd    5.1K Oct 25 13:34 /export/home/timeless/nexenta/bin/sardine_get_maemo.sh12:57
czrhmm. where are those?12:57
_Monkeythose are /dev/rfcomm, maybe?12:57
timeless-rwxr-xr-x   1 timeless webservd    4.9K Nov  7 20:05 /export/home/timeless/nexenta/bin/extras_get_maemo.sh12:57
pupnikczr: you can tar-up a scratchbox install and burn to dvd12:57
timelessczr: ping12:57
czrpupnik, hmm. maybe I'm missing my point. the objective is _not_ delivering a working SDK in an offline environment. the object is delivering a working environment where the SDK can be _installed_ while in offline.12:58
timelessczr: please pong12:58
czrtimeless, pong. sry12:58
czrI have a separate queue for echo-messages :-)12:58
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pupnikah i see.  then you'd need to make a local repository for all the SB stuff12:59
pupnikand the chinook stuff12:59
czrI probably didn't explain the scenario too well at the beginning, sry for that.13:00
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czrthe sb-stuff isn't too hard at all13:00
czrit's just a bunck of deb files which can be installed manually with dpkg13:00
czrand then sb-conf the targets and such13:00
timelessmight also be worth reading13:01
timelessso that's 4 scripts :)13:01
timelessi can't remember how related they are13:01
timelessthe nexenta one is a debian bootstrapper for a live system13:01
timelessthe others all get sources only13:01
czrah, not related to maemo then?13:01
timelessalthough iirc they're flexible so one could probably swap them13:01
timelessi wanted to be able to install nexenta(debian-solaris)13:02
timelessso i found a script that kinda worked13:02
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timelessbut there's not much difference between bootstrapping one debian and another13:02
timelessnexenta and maemo are both forks from debian13:02
* czr nods13:03
timelessbut, for your purposes, it's possible that the other three still have enough ability to get non sources instead of sources13:03
timelessthere's actually a perl variant of one of them13:03
timelessbut i think i never managed to switch to using it :(13:03
timeless(it's not shorter, just perl)13:03
czrhmm. what's the end-result? for
czra rootstrap tarball for sbox?13:04
timelesssources for everything that go into a release13:04
timelesswell, for almost everythign13:05
czrand that helps me how exactly? :-)13:05
timelessat least, by default13:05
timelessi'd start w/ the extras one13:05
timelessthat's the one that i used to get the chinook xref13:05
timelessand it /should/ still have enough flags to say install instead of get sources13:05
* czr shakes head13:05
* timeless shrugs13:06
czr" the objective is _not_ delivering a working SDK in an offline environment. the object is delivering a working environment where the SDK can be _installed_ while in offline."13:06
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timelessit might be eaier to start from the get_nexenta version, since that's the onl one that results in a booted system :|13:06
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czrnevermind. it might be better that I'll just continue banging my head against my own private wall for a while :-)13:07
czrthanks anyway13:07
timelesswell, conceptually13:07
timelessget_nexenta downloads the pieces it considers to be minimal13:07
timelessand splitting it into a "get" and an "install" pass13:07
timelesswould be easy13:07
* timeless shrugs13:08
czrhmm. how do I stop wget from going into parent directories of the original target URL?13:08
timelessyou mean foo/ => ?13:08
czrI want to retrieve that. but wget with -r will also retrieve stuff behind "Parent directory"13:09
pupnik -np13:09
czrpupnik, thanks13:10
X-Fadeczr:   -l,  --level=NUMBER       maximum recursion depth (inf or 0 for infinite).13:10
czrX-Fade, that doesn't help really.13:10
pupniki think default recursion level is 513:10
czrah. yeah.13:11
timelessman wget isn't so bad actually13:11
timelessalthough you're stuck reading it13:11
czryup. somehow skipped the -np option while reading it13:11
pupniki like man pages with exmamples :)13:11
pupnikhmm "exmanples"13:12
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czrooh. "Stale NFS file handle"13:14
czrbeen a while since I saw those :-)13:14
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Andy80don't remember the link... where can I find the howto that explain how to install multiple SDK under the same Scratchbox?13:17
czrAndy80, check maemo-dev ml archives. inz at least posted some stuff on it within the last week13:19
timelessczr: anyway, at some point i'll probably write a variant of my script which actually does make rootstraps13:19
timelessbecause sometimes i need to index them :(13:19
czrtimeless, tonight? :-)13:19
timelessno :)13:19
czrdamn.. :-)13:19
timelessfebruary :)13:19
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czrI really wish that the offline scenario would be supported directly13:20
czrbut I guess that's not going to ever happen13:20
timelessfile a bug?13:20
timelessi don't get it13:20
timelessthe official process is that you use apt-get update or something similarly stupid?13:20
czrthe official process is that you use the automatic install scripts13:21
timelessi think the process i recommend is "grab the vmware image"13:21
timelessoh yuck13:21
czrthe maemo SDK script will download a rootstrap (tarball), extract it into sbox, then run apt-get update in both targets13:21
czrand that apt-get basically will get most of the SDK stuff installed13:21
timelessthe official scripts are for silly people who have already made their own scratchbox13:21
czrit's pretty ok, iff you're connected while you're doing it13:21
* timeless nods13:22
czrthere's another script that will download and install sbox for you too13:22
czrso, two autoscripts13:22
timelessis the rootstrap not redistributable?13:22
czrit doesn't contain the SDK13:22
czrit only contains a small part of it13:22
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timelessbut does a license prevent someone from hosting a more useful tarball?13:22
czrand.. well.. then there's the issue of the nokia binary license and stuff13:22
timelessrub, therein, lies.13:23
czrthat's a separate issue. the binaries are separate from the rootstrap13:23
czrthe autoscript downloads them separately13:23
czrand I don't think anything per se would stop someone making this offline scenario work13:23
czrI just don't get it why I'm supposed to be the someone.13:24
* czr is grumpy13:24
tsavolaczr: ota naassii13:24
timelessif you want to point to a place on we could make arrangements13:24
* tsavola ojentaa13:24
czrnaassii? :-)13:24
timelessthen you could get someone else to do it later :)13:24
tsavolaczr: karkkii13:24
tsavolaczr: päkyi13:24
czrtsavola, karkki computes. pakyi sounds like something weird :-)13:24
* czr takes some nases.13:24
* timeless kicks svn13:25
czrtsavola, naassii based on "napoo"?13:25
timelesswhat kind of <title>/</title> is that?13:25
tsavolaczr: en tiedä sanan etymologiaa13:25
timelessoh gah13:25
czrtimeless, compact one. it's slashdot taken to the next level.13:25
timelessthere are *two* trunk directories13:25
* timeless kicks /someone/13:25
* czr hides13:25
sp3000maybe it got struck by lightning13:26
czrthere's a coffee machine in oulu with very funny user instructions.. I think it went something like this: 2) Wait for lightning. 3) Take hot cup". don't remember the first bit13:26
timelessit's a HEAD BRANCH!13:26
czrin finnish it made slightly more sense13:26
czron tekniikantie, if you ever visit that place13:27
czrI'm sure it's still somewhere there.13:27
timelesssp3000: did you leaf through the photos?13:27
czrin even probably.13:27
sp3000timeless: I did13:27
jumpulapäkyi \o/13:28
sp3000head branch sounds painful13:28
czrsp3000, slightly more so than head trunk13:28
pupnikI think i'm going to 'release my package' tomorrow13:29
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czrI think I'm going to "not to work" tomorrow13:32
czrin the evening at least. would be nice to have a proper weekend at least13:32
czrat last too13:32
tsavolaczr: you're going "across the street" and "down to pub"13:32
czrtsavola, yes. to "enjoy myself".13:32
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czrI have an evil solution to the offline scenario13:33
* czr gets all gleamy-red-eyed13:34
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czrhmm. I wonder why -np didn't work13:35
czr-np with still tries to download
czr(and fails btw)13:36
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czrah. it was a redirect because of a symlink13:38
czrhmm. no it wasn't. /me goes mad13:38
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* timeless really hates svn13:44
timelessit's so slow13:44
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* czr gives timeless a Nokia 300 baud modem13:46
czrto teach you some.13:46
* timeless grew up w/ 2400/120013:46
timelessbut at least then you knew what size files made snese13:46
czryeah, they did13:47
timelesszmodem told you the file size and the time13:47
timelesssvn doesn't bother13:47
timelessyou have no idea how many gig's of garbage you'll get13:47
Jaffabergie_: ping13:47
czrtimeless, ls?13:47
timelessin svn?13:48
czrtimeless, but yeah, a some kind of prediction would be nice13:48
timelessi don't have the directories yet13:48
czryes, in svn.13:48
czryou don't have to13:48
timelesssvn ls ?13:48
czralthough I guess svn du would be nicer, if it'd exist.13:48
timelessdoes it require a lock?13:49
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timelessyes, i want svn du13:49
timelesssvn ls is not remotely useful13:49
timelesswget works13:49
timelessor telnet13:49
timelessso does microb13:49
czryes. although you need -v to get the sizes13:52
czrdu wouldn't be very hard to implement either13:52
* czr puts on his "no, I'm not going to implement it now" -t-shirt13:52
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czrwhat gets me most about svn is it's double-storage on local side13:54
czrit's really annoying with larger files which you know that you'll never modify anyway except maybe with overwrites (binary files and such)13:54
mgedminwheee!  nokia wireless keyboard rules!13:55
mgedminapple wireless keyboard rules13:56
czrhmm. question: why are debian source packages available in both the binary distribution directory _and_ under the /pool/rel/source/ tree?13:59
czrinfact. the source tree also contains the binaries14:00
lardmankulve: is there a home page for the mobile myth tv stuff?14:00
kulvelardman: uhm, how should I know? :)14:00
kulveI tried it once, but didn't get working. I'm going to get those myth things working once I get the n810 though..14:01
lardmansorry, I saw the first address on the page and didn't read any further
pupnikthe nokia bluetooth keyboard looks very nice as far as I can tell - wish i could afford to buy one just to compare to the Thinkoutside Stowaway14:01
* lardman wishes he could get a device with a built-in keyboard14:01
kulveabout same thing14:01
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lardmankulve: thanks, I was just going to say he ought to have some more blurb & screenshots14:02
czrhmm. I think that source is a symlink to the same directory. damn it..14:03
kulvelardman: doesn't answer to me, but there's probably seomthing more14:03
kulveand I saw a wiki somewhere14:03
kulveoh, it's that url14:03
lardmanI'm not that bothered, was just going to point it out14:03
lardmanas the news post has neutral karma14:04
* czr rotfls14:04
czrwget -r -l inf with this: ... etc.14:04
lardmanyeah I saw that the other day14:05
* mgedmin cannot figure out how to turn the apple wireless keyboard off14:05
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czris available over ftp btw?14:22
czrbleh. no14:22
* czr bangs head against the wall14:22
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czrcan't stop wget from ending up into an infinite loop14:32
* czr oh joys14:32
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pupnikthere's no place like /home14:38
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Andy80I'm trying to install Maemo SDK 3.1/3.2 inside Scratchbox already configured for Maemo SDK 4.0 and I've this problem: currently SDK 4.0 is using this toolchain: cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-i386 but SDK 3.1 requires cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386, how can I fix this?14:45
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[pablo]trying to install a few apps into os2008 from maemo and they are complaining about missing hildon libraries. Anyone know why these are not in the repository?14:49
pupnikfile a report on the app please14:51
[pablo]namely sgt-puzzles14:51
[pablo]i have ran into a few different ones with different libs though14:52
suihkulokkiwithout bothering to check I'm fairly certain you are trying to install Os2007 apps on OS200814:52
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[pablo]suihkulokki: no idea, they are listed in the application manager14:53
[pablo]i've had my n810 for all of 8 hours now heh, and it's my first tablet14:53
pygiergh, [pablo], you're in US probably?14:53
pygiah :-/14:54
mgedminAndy80: my understanding is that you create separate targets for each SDK version, and use different toolchains for each target, no?14:54
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[pablo]mine wasn't supposed to come until the end of the month, but it showed up early for smoe reason14:54
pygi[pablo]: well, in europe,  we still cant get one :D14:55
mgedminAndy80: have you seen ?14:55
X-Fade[pablo]: You are making a lot of people jealous ;)14:55
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Andy80mgedmin: yes... I read it on the maemo-developers ML, that I can install another SDK inside the current Scratchbox installation.14:55
Andy80mgedmin: I give a look..14:55
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Darpygi: anyone seen any estimate of when those of us in europe might be able to get our hands on one?14:57
Andy80mgedmin: I'm reading... but he simply force SDK 3.1/3.2 to use cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-i386 instead of cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386 :)14:57
pygiDar, I heard December 18 ? :-/14:57
Andy80mgedmin: I can modify the installer script too..14:58
Darseriously... ?14:58
pygiDar, aha14:58
DarThat's effectively 2008 given xmas period.14:59
pygiwell, I wont be getting it this year if that's true :-/14:59
pygiI'm in Croatia, and my code is for austria webshop, so :D14:59
Darhere's hoping that it's sooner then !15:00
[pablo]i hope more people get them, i feel so lonely heh15:01
pygishh, when we get them, some serious hacking will start :)15:01
[pablo]awesome =)15:02
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[pablo]so most of the applications in the repositories right now won't work on os2008 right?15:03
pupnikscummvm works.  should tide you over for a few hours :)15:04
pupnikalso the sdl gamey type stuff tends to work on any tablet OS15:05
X-FadeAll OS2008 applications in the catalog should work. Tested most of them.15:05
[pablo]i got pidgin installed, and maemopad(old voodoopad user so I like this), and gizmo15:05
timelessx-fade: which catalog?15:05
timelesswe tried installing ukmp and the other one, and neither worked15:05
[pablo]yeah i tried ukmp and it didn't work as well15:06
pygi[pablo]: why use pidgin, if you can use FamaIM? :)15:06
[pablo]pygi: what is famaim?15:06
pygi[pablo]: http://fama-im.org15:06
timelessx-fade: yeah, i think we tried ukmp and kagu and both refused to install15:07
X-Fadetimeless: I guess you forgot to install python first? :)15:07
X-FadeI run kagu at least.15:07
suihkulokki"forgot to install python first"15:07
timelesswhat part of "click to install!" means "but please click somewhere else first?"15:07
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X-Fadetimeless: File a bug agains the applications?15:08
timelessi told someone else to, i can go haunt him now15:08
[pablo]pygi: half the protocols don't work according to this :-P15:08
X-FadeThey should just depend on python..15:08
pygi[pablo]: they do ;)15:08
pygiI just didnt update the page for some time xD15:08
pygiplus the newest release (0.0.4 which should be out soon) rocks even more :)15:08
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timelessis responding for other people/15:10
timeless"Waiting for"15:10
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[pablo]also waiting ...15:10
X-Fadetimeless: Does the same for me..15:10
czrtimeless, see how much fun I'm having: 2350, 2351 & 235215:10
* timeless considers an rss feed for "bugs filed today"15:10
timelessBugzilla has suffered an internal error. Please save this page and send it to with details of what you were doing at the time this message appeared.15:11
timelessCan't use %5BBug%20creation%5D as a field name.15:11
timelessawww gee, that worked really well15:11
* timeless cries15:11
* czr broke bugzilla?15:11
timelessstrange, seems to work fine w/ bmo15:12
timeless(bugzilla.mozilla, not bugs.maemo)15:12
czrah. suspected as much15:12
* czr stores the failed attempt to be ironic for later use15:12
czrat being ironic!15:12
* czr hides in shame15:12
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czrdoes anyone know who maintains (the webserver)15:17
czrwhether they're on irc and such15:17
timelessczr: bug 2353  :)15:18
_MonkeyBug 2353 might be found at
X-Fadeczr: Talk to ferenc..15:18
timelessczr: you want ftp?15:18
[pablo]tried installing python and that crapped out on me too =/ libbz2 and libgdbm315:19
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timelessThe requested URL could not be retrieved15:19
timelessWhile trying to retrieve the URL:
czrtimeless, it at least would've allowed me to test whether wget gets around the symlink using FTP15:19
timeless    * Connection to Failed15:19
timelessThe system returned:15:19
timeless    (111) Connection refused15:19
timelessThe remote host or network may be down. Please try the request again.15:19
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czrX-Fade, ferenc doesn't irc, does he?15:19
X-Fadetimeless: We are working on it with all parties..15:19
czrtimeless, nice (2353)15:20
czrdamn you btw, you stole 2353 from me! I've yet to have a free run of four consecutive bug ids15:20
luck^[pablo], they are in http://repository.maemo.org15:21
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czrtimeless, I was testing various approaches doing the mirroring and was just puzzled why my nice proxy wasn't proxying anything. first wasted some time verifying that the proxy works and so. blah I say (bug 2350)15:22
_MonkeyBug 2350 might be found at
sp3000timeless: I like the feed title when you fix the url15:22
luck^you have to add a new line to your repositories list15:22
timelesssp3000: which was it15:22
timelesssp3000: oh yes15:22
timelessis there a bug about that?15:22
timelessif i filed it, it's old :)15:22
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pupniki'm excited for new/better abiword15:24
[pablo]luck^: thank you, i wonder why the main repo wasn't in my catalog list. Fixed now =)15:24
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[pablo]attempting ukmp now15:24
mgedminaargh, is killing me15:25
pygiah, wrong direction of arrow is killing you?15:26
pygiI just hope that's the worst bug you found ...15:26
pygiif it is, then no worries :P15:26
sp3000timeless: ah, cool, the link in the html is fine, a redirect is being funny15:26
mgedminit's not a wrong direction15:26
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[pablo]hey that worked too15:26
[pablo]go figure =)15:26
mgedminit's that two of my statusbar icons are completely inaccessible15:26
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sp3000see e.g.
sp3000 rather15:27
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pygimgedmin: ah, the bluetooth one :P15:27
pygisorry, didnt look at it15:27
pygiI just woke up, so :p15:27
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timelessmgedmin: been there, poked that :)15:29
czrtimeless, why did you ask (about ftp)?15:29
mgedminnow I have to set up an alarm in order to poke the bluetooth arrow15:29
infobotmgedmin meant: now I have to set up an alarm in order to poke the bluetooth icon15:29
* timeless frowns15:32
pygithis bot reads minds :)15:32
timelesshow does one find a file when it could be on any of a dozen computers15:32
timelessand some computers have >300gb of "data" :(15:32
* czr hides15:33
JaffaAnyone looking at porting Micropolis (i.e. SimCity) to Maemo?
czrtimeless, one builds indices15:33
czrand searches in the indices15:33
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timelesssp3000: this is cool, i can easily tell which bugs czr has filed that i have(n't) read15:34
timelessif they have the maemo logo, i've read them15:34
timelessif not, i haven't15:34
timelessczr: btw tell jarmo not to misspell meemo :)15:35
czrhe's beyond my skills15:35
czr(note, I didn't say "any hope", just my skills..)15:35
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czrtimeless, can't you file a bug report on him? :-)15:36
timelessi had started to write an email15:36
timelessbut i gave up15:36
* czr comes up with a brilliant idea. combining bugzilla and linkedin15:36
pygiJaffa: source link?15:37
czrwhere you file bugs against people that you are working with/have worked with15:37
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timelessi like the . => source thing :)15:40
timelessthat's nice15:40
timelessanyway, i think you're much better off using some variant of one of my scripts15:40
timelessone shoudl definitely be able to get all the debs for you :)15:40
timelessprobably apt-get install --download-only15:40
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timeless2352 should be sev:enh15:41
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czrit's too late now :-)15:41
timelessyou got what you needed?15:41
czralready downloading. everything. with caching disabled. with broken symlinks. without ftp.15:41
tsavolawhat . => source why15:41
czrI only have 2 Mbps line. so still waiting15:41
timelessczr: how'd you deal w/ source?15:42
czrsource -> . I think.15:42
* czr spanks tsavola15:42
tsavolaThu 15:40        timeless> i like the . => source thing :)15:42
czrtimeless, I don't.15:42
timelessyou don't?15:42
tsavolai do15:42
timelessso you're going to recursively get it?15:42
czrno. I gave up on wget.15:42
tsavolai'm not15:43
timelessyou're back to apt?15:43
* czr spanks tsavola until he is15:43
czrtimeless, no15:43
czrusing apt-mirror15:43
czrmodified version15:43
czrand will see how damaged it will come out15:43
czrI've spent 4 hours so far just _trying_ to replicate the repo15:43
timelesssp3000: thanks for the analysis15:43
timeless(much easier to read in gmail than on irc)15:44
czrI'm really afraid of thinking how many more hours I'll spend tonight trying to get the offline thing working.15:44
timelesswhere did /bugzilla/ come from?15:44
czrhmm. are alkos still open? like, not all completely on strike?15:44
timelesswasn't there *one* open? :)15:45
czrwhich one? :-) which one?!?15:45
* czr will check15:45
timelessdid i mention i don't drink?15:45
czryou did15:45
czrI don't use windows, but that doesn't stop me from knowing about it :-)15:46
czrah. no strikes currently. then I can continue work too.15:46
timelessis all i can find15:47
czrheh :-). says that they're all open. they're going to resume the strike later15:47
timelessafter christmas?15:47
czrI think before actually15:48
czr"to hit them where it hurts the most"15:48
timelessgood call15:48
timelessnon dumb unions15:48
czrthey're getting pretty feisty nowadays15:48
timelessat least you guys grow one smart group15:48
dpb_czr: the last strike ended saturday afaik15:50
czrgreat. I visit alko maybe once a year or twice15:50
Jaffapygi: err, google? :)15:50
pygiJaffa: heh, cant right now, sorry15:51
dpb_but apparently they might go on strike next month again.. I dunno..15:51
czrI think I'll go and get some food and a bottle of port or something. the download seems to take ages anyway15:52
czrlaters ->15:52
czrJaffa, micropolis looks interesting. too bad it's in tcl/tk though :-)15:53
dpb_Visiting alko might be an idea..15:53
Jaffaczr/pygi: can't seem to find a source tarball yet15:55
czrJaffa, ask on #olpc?15:55
Jaffaczr: yeah, but I don't think typing's necessary so it could run full screen (like it does on the OLPC)15:55
czrthey might know if the port is being worked on to olpc anyway15:55
* czr nods15:55
czrit would be a nice small thing to have on the device in any case15:55
czrbut. -> non-maemo-things.15:56
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pupnikschools should have a one-tablet-per-child program16:02
pupnikhospitals should have em too16:03
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pygipupnik: they should use it as a tricoder =)16:03
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bedboiwho talks about strikes?16:11
bedboithis french "greve" (strike) is terrible16:11
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timelessfinnish alcohol sales?16:14
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timelesssp3000: hey, for bmo, is that extra /bugzilla/ present, or is it only in bugs-maemo?16:18
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sp3000timeless: just maemo16:20
timelessiirc i *have* bugs-maemo somewhere16:20
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* timeless wonders *where*16:20
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timelessok, it's on my windows laptop at least16:22
timelesskinda odd16:22
timelessany idea which file i should look at?16:23
* sp3000 finds 5 roots to get to bugs.maemo16:24
timeless  <link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml"16:24
timeless        href="[% Param('urlbase') %]buglist.cgi?16:24
timeless        [%- urlquerypart FILTER xml %]"/>16:24
pupnikthanks for the good browser16:25
timelesspupnik: =)16:26
timelessindeed, five, nice16:26
timeless doesn't work :o16:26
timelessdon't forget http(s) :)16:26
sp3000timeless: you need
* timeless sees sp3000's five and raises 516:27
timelessooh, that works16:27
timelessshould i be mean and thumb down anyone linking to :)16:30
trulsshould svn-buildpackage work in scratchbox?16:30
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sp3000timeless: nah, fx3 takes care of that ;)16:31
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sp3000someone should probably fix the flags in the redirect config16:32
sp3000assuming I remember something I've never really done anything with at all correctly ;)16:32
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sp3000ok, except fx3 doesn't fix http-no-s16:33
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trulsseems the libraries are missing to be able to run svn-buildpackage somehow...16:35
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trulsoops... removing the svn-buildpackage with apt from within scratchbox doesn't let it be reinstalled..16:37
timelessok, i've asked the rtcomm team to fix their links/text to say :)16:38
timelessouch, someone is attacking one of the http servers :)16:39
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timelessis apt-get dist-upgrade a bad idea in scratchbox?17:20
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lophytehas anyone been successful in getting USB host mode working on the N800?17:24
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zoranregarding yesterday's im console client topic, I found links to two apps made for that purpose: centricq and climm17:49
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pygizoran: shhh, well, FamaIM is the best :)17:52
zorank, no hard feelings?17:53
pygiofcourse not :D17:53
zoranno bsd port of it till this days17:53
pygiyou can run it tho17:54
pygi(on bsd)17:54
zoranlemme find the source17:54
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inzzoran, bitlbee ftw ;)17:55
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zoranyes< i saw it some time ago, but I still don't use im17:56
zoranit is a daemon to look for connections ...17:56
pygibtw. centericq has been obsoleted by centerim17:56
zoranjust saw this17:56
zorancjc in python17:57
zoranclimm comes after micq17:57
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vabgeohi all18:01
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vabgeomy N800 doesnt seem to switch on after doing an initfs comand & reboot18:03
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_Monkeybonjour, Ar-ras18:04
Ar-rasis N810 released?18:04
sxpert-worknot yet18:04
Ar-raswhen will it released?18:05
sxpert-workthanks for asking :-)18:06
vabgeoIn it says out of stock18:07
sxpert-workvabgeo: they added the product, but it hasn't arrived from the factory yet18:07
vabgeooh, i heard it was available in nokia flagship stores in chicago & newyork?18:09
vabgeothey had a news release on 19th18:09
vabgeoi am still waiting for the dev code to be activated.18:12
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vabgeoanyway i seem to have succesfully bricked my n800 :(18:16
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kupesoftI can't get pidgin running on chinook,18:18
kupesoftSome dependency is not satisfied,18:19
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fysawhy did they have to make about:config the most annoying thing ever to configure jesus fucking christ18:22
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mgedminvabgeo: can you reflash?18:24
vabgeoit doesnt even power on18:25
vabgeothat i press & hold the switch18:25
mgedminlophyte: some threads on the mailing list indicate that yes, there is at least one person who managed to get usb host working on a n80018:25
vabgeonothing happens18:25
mgedminvabgeo: try recharging18:25
vabgeono lights..18:25
mgedminpulling out the battery, putting it back in, plugging in the charger and waiting a couple of hours18:25
vabgeoyes, I checked battery/charger. battery shows 3.7 Volts18:26
vabgeocharger output is 6.2 Volts18:26
vabgeoi have a lab18:26
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sp3000a voltage measuring doggy!!1118:27
* sp3000 didn't know labs could do that18:27
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lophytemgedmin, I'll have to check it out... ITT had unsuccessful stories18:29
vabgeook mgedmin18:29
vabgeowhen i connect the charger, even the charging icon doesnt show up. I tried another charger from a shop to no effect18:30
zoranmgedmin said to remove battery for minute or so18:31
mgedminactually I didn't say "for a minute", but it might help anyway ;)18:31
vabgeoyup i had removed it for like an hour now :D18:31
bedboidamn, is there anyone who has troubles with resolving DNS names in scratchbox?18:31
zoranI had an issue and it became to be empty battery18:31
mgedminI've had one 770 that wouldn't show any life signs even after I plugged in the charger, but after a few hours of it being plugged in I could turn it on18:32
shackanbedboi: you have an old debian/ubuntu?18:32
mgedminbedboi: almost everyone18:32
bedboinope i'm using debian sid18:32
bedboimgedmin: cool :)18:32
mgedminand it's usually a new debian/ubuntu that causes the problems -- one that has avahi enabled by default18:32
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mgedminthe trick is to check /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf instead of /etc/resolv.conf18:32
bedboii guess i don't have that stupid avahi18:32
bedboilemme see18:33
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mgedminand another trick is to check /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf (make sure mdns is not mentioned)18:33
bedboimgedmin: you are the man!18:33
bedboithe first one did the job18:33
* czr is ready to post more bug reports!18:35
czr(slightly drunk)18:35
czrbut that's where the best bug reports come from!18:35
* mgedmin wants to post a wishlist bug to have redirect to the new location instead of having a funny text message18:36
zoranczr, what did you unbugged?18:36
vabgeook mgedmin, tnx. just for your info the last operation i did was back up my rootfs and try to dualboot.18:37
czrzoran, I'm prettu sure that wouldn't compute even if I'd be sober :-)18:37
czractually. I wanted to act civilized, and have some port with food.18:37
czrI then decided that acted civilized is very much over-rated.18:37
czracting even.18:37
vabgeoby using the fanoush's initfs. foolishly i ran initfs from an ssh from my pc. do you think this might cause this?18:38
zoranvabgeo, do you have power in device at start up?18:38
vabgeou mean the charger? yea18:39
zoranscreen appears?18:39
vabgeono blue light18:39
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zoranany light?18:39
zoranwhite screen?18:39
vabgeonothing at all, a real brick18:39
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zorannot even one foton at the very start?18:40
vabgeonot even a quark!18:40
zorancould be a battery?18:40
zoranit should not be so expensive18:40
vabgeoi had initially thought the battery was dead18:40
vabgeoi got another charger18:41
vabgeochecked the battery with a multimeter18:41
X-Fadevabgeo: Did you check it while loaded..18:41
vabgeobattery showed i think 3.7 volts18:41
vabgeonope i didnt hmm18:41
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X-FadeCan be that it drops a lot..18:42
vabgeoi see. ya i guess I will buy a new battery18:42
X-Fadevabgeo: But surely it isn't out of warranty yet?18:43
vabgeoits just 3 months18:43
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X-FadeSo claim your warranty! :)18:43
vabgeoits just that I travelling in US for a couple of months and leave back in 2 weeks18:44
vabgeoso i guess warranty takes at least 4-6 weeks?18:44
X-Fadevabgeo: Ah, well ask in the shop if you can try the new battery?18:44
zoransales people will love him18:45
X-FadeOr (warning warning) use another battery from another nokia and hook it up with a few wires.18:45
X-Fadezoran: Not more than reasonable?18:45
vabgeothis has the same battery as e62 i think18:46
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vabgeoi have a digital variable powersupply18:46
zoransales people will love him18:46
zoranuh, sorry, wrong key18:47
czryeah, d minor.18:47
czrotherwise it won't sound sad enough18:47
vabgeothere are 3 pins for the battery, can i get some info on what all voltages to give?18:47
czrone of the pins is for serial communication methinks, not? smart batteries?18:48
Jaffakulve: great comment at the end of :)18:48
lophyteguess I need to hack a USB cable now18:49
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X-FadeJaffa: Very nice when you work hard on project and people rant like that..18:49
X-FadeMakes you feel all fuzzy inside..18:49
vabgeoso i think i shall try gving +3.7 volts on the pin and try?18:49
czrjaffa :-)18:50
zoranvabgeo, look for white smoke18:50
zoranbpl-5 ?18:50
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kulveJaffa: yeah, I was a bit surprised by the ferenc's comment..18:51
zoranyou better invest into it or replace, as someone suggested18:51
vabgeok yes, that sounds better to me too :) ebay has it as low as 10$18:52
zoranno secondhand, I hope18:52
czrkulve, that he commented or to the contents of the comment? :-)18:52
JaffaX-Fade: the response of "yeah, but we don't know what's going on" isn't likely to engender confidence. Last weekend it was up and down all the time - you're all still working on getting it back up and running (see the profiles issue); ferenc saying more specific issues are needed when it seems to be (and ferenc's comment confirms this) process/procedural/resource issues. Not bugs in the specific Midgard implementation.18:53
vabgeoi will probably get a desktop charger too18:53
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zoranpygi, bitlbee looks like something I'd like the best18:53
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X-FadeJaffa: We worked on it, even in the weekend. This is a community project and lately it seems that people rather rant, than offer constructive comments or even offer help.18:54
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X-FadeJaffa: Sure, things have gone wrong. But you can't always help that..18:55
zuhkulve: haha, you told him good ;)18:55
JaffaX-Fade: fair enough, but (once again) there's no communication. No-one knows what's going on, even at the weekend only timelyx was on IRC (IIRC) saying it probably wasn't worth paging anyone about.18:55
Jaffa- which is probably right, albeit temporarily frustrating.18:55
X-FadeJaffa: Timeless likes to rant too ;)18:56
pygizoran: shhhh!18:56
JaffaX-Fade: really? hadn't noticed ;-)18:56
X-FadeBut being a troll in bugzilla certainly won't help.18:57
JaffaX-Fade: if you want more community involvement, you (a general "you") need to communicate better. Where's the email to maemo-developers apologising for the downtime, explaining what happened, explaining what you did to fix it, explaining why it's not going to happen again and asking for assistance with (a), (b) and (c).18:57
konttoriI was just talking to ferenc an hour ago18:57
konttorihe was saying that they have been working really hard on the issue non-stop.18:58
X-FadeWhen working in a small team with limited resources, you can't always spend hours sending mails. You just want to fix things asap.18:58
* czr agrees with jaffa18:58
konttoriHe was on his way to home to get some food and keep on working the servers.18:58
X-FadeWe work on it even on our free time in the evenings, shit happes..18:58
czrno doubt there might have been a lot of effort to fix things. but how can anyone see it?18:58
czranyone outside N that is.18:58
X-Fadeczr: Subscribe to maemo2midgard mailinglist for one..18:59
konttoriYeah, just saying that the guys trying to fix things are doing their best18:59
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czrX-Fade, where is that?18:59
JaffaX-Fade: agreed - but you're not going to get help if you don't ask ;-)18:59
konttoriI agree that this situation should have never happened in the first place18:59
vabgeozoran, mgedmin thanks for your help. so i can be reasonably sure that doing initfs will not bring N800 to this state and it must be a power supply issue?18:59
* Jaffa still isn't sure what the situation *is*, apart from "shit happened" :-/18:59
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mgedminvabgeo: better ask on the mailing list, one of the nokia developers who actually knows this stuff will probably answer19:00
zoranvabgeo, whatever software prob you'd have, it must to show some light to you19:00
Jaffacron dying, and profile corruption are the only things I'm really aware of. But those are probably symptoms - as are the weekend issues of gforce being available, * being available tc.19:00
konttoricould also be that they can't give the reasons19:00
konttoriNot saying that it is like that, but just that could be that they can't19:01
X-FadeJaffa: They were all a chain reaction..19:01
konttorimidgard might be at the heart of it in the end19:01
czrX-Fade, 10 mails during all of november:
czrX-Fade, that's the list you meant?19:01
X-FadeJaffa: garage died, m.o synced broken records, cron was stopped to stop syncing etc etc..19:02
lardmanah, good to see my email made it there19:02
vabgeothanks i tried on the ittforum I will check on the mailing list and will also try new batteries..19:02
X-Fadeczr: That will get you to the right people at least.19:02
czrlardman, heh. did you btw see my mail about the spontaneous debugging issue?19:02
vabgeoit means my development of my apps are on a standstill19:02
lardmanczr: no, what was that?19:03
czrX-Fade, so next time something will break, we'll tell people to sub to that ml and complain there?19:03
JaffaX-Fade: thanks, that helps a lot. *Is* there anything we can do to help?19:03
czrlardman, let me dig for it. maemo-dev. yesterday19:03
lardmanI'll look through my posts19:03
czrsearch for "annoying bug-reporting person"19:03
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X-FadeJaffa: It seems we have the server load under control now, tomorrow we will try to restore the accounts..19:04
czrevenink ferenc. just were talking about breakage of maemo.org19:05
czror rather, lack of communication from N with that19:05
ferencyes, i know. i came in to see what are you guys talking19:05
czr"there is none" :-)19:05
ferencis there any constructive criticism here or only ranting, just like in bugzilla?19:06
Jaffaferenc: Probably best to read the last 10 minutes' log19:06
czrferenc, mostly ranting.19:06
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czrbut imho it's justified ranting.19:06
ferenci don't want to ruin my evening. nokia does not pay extra for that.19:06
czrferenc, just think "it's just a job" real hard :-)19:06
ferenci would suggest to stop ranting. we are not screwing up for fun.19:06
czrno one thinks you are.19:07
ferenci would be please if there were a dozen of apache experts volunteering here.19:07
JaffaDon't take it personally: if this is a question of not having a test server, Nokia need to invest here. They can't push developers towards using services but then not provide the resources to allow it to be run as a stable production system.19:07
ferencso where are those guys?19:07
czrferenc, where did you ask for them?19:07
ferencok. i stop here guys.19:07
Jaffaferenc: one of the points has been that without any communication (because you're busy fixing it), the Nokia team've not said what's gone wrong; so there're a) no offers of help; b) no requests for help.19:08
lardmannight all19:08
X-FadeJaffa: Everthing gets tested internally. But you just can't test for freak accidents..19:08
* Jaffa is happy to help a) if he can, b) if he knows how19:08
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ferencwe have test servers, but we can't simulate that kind of test load.19:08
ferencJaffa, czr: you are right. we did not ask help.19:08
X-FadeJaffa: All those people refreshing for news about OS2008 and N810 doesn't help either ;)19:09
czrferenc, next time, just a single email of " is expriencing problems & we're investigating further" would help. really.19:09
czrferenc, and don't take it personally, please.19:09
JaffaX-Fade: of course, you're right you can't prevent freak accidents with testing. This is where DR & backup investment comes in :-)19:09
ferencczr: yes, right. it is difficult.19:09
czrferenc, I feel your pain btw :-)19:10
X-FadeJaffa: That is what will be done to fix it..19:10
* Jaffa too - maintaining flaky systems is no fun :-(19:10
JaffaX-Fade: excellent :)19:10
ferencso guys, beside chatting here please go to and just kick it hard.19:10
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czrferenc, is there anything specific you'd want us to concentrate on?19:11
czrand which parts of are we talking about? garage.maemo, or just
ferencczr: you know this is difficult without you guys having access to the server19:11
* czr nods19:11
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ferencwe talk about and downloads.maemo.org19:11
* czr nods19:11
czrdoes it make difference whether the load comes through https or http?19:12
X-FadeAs you might have noticed. All news is refreshing again..19:12
ferencczr: yes, it is.19:12
ferencczr: we believe that this hype around karma caused that everybody is using https sessions.19:12
ferencwe just did not prepare for that.19:12
* czr nods at ferenc19:12
czryou might want to separate the ssl handling to front-end servers running stunnel19:13
czrthat's the easy (and somewhat hackish) solution19:13
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czrthat way the cpu on the php machine would be free from ssl19:13
czrand all ssl handling (sessions and gache)19:13
czrgcache even)19:13
X-Fadeczr: It is not the load from ssl. It is that it isn't cached..19:13
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czrX-Fade, yes. frontends with stunnels fix that.19:13
ferencczr: that's interesting indeed. we have caching for https now. but we could take a look at your proposal.19:14
X-Fadeczr: No they won't as you use sessions..19:14
czrX-Fade, why do you tie your php-sessions to ssl-sessions?19:14
X-Fadeczr: And everything is dynamically generated for you..19:14
czrthere is no need for that.19:14
czror maybe we're talking about different things.19:14
X-FadeI has to know if you can comment for example. If you have already commented today, you can't anymore. That sort of things..19:15
czrok. before using too much time, can I suggest something19:16
Jaffadon't use HTTPS unless necessary?19:16
X-FadeThat is all pretty dynamic. The new caching system caches objects internally..19:16
czrX-Fade, ference, once things cool down, could you write a short blurb explaining with technical details what the issue is/was and what kind of technical expertise you'd like to have19:16
czrX-Fade, but ssl has nothing to do with it, unless bound "manually".19:16
X-FadeJaffa: It isn't the https. To keep you logged in you need sessions. Those cause no-cache..19:16
czrah. no I see19:17
ferencczr: i can collect that info tomorrow. we need the Midgard gurus here as well.19:17
czrnow even :-)19:17
* czr nods19:17
czrproblems are expected, no one is claiming otherwise. just more info would be nice. at least you can then afterwards say that "hey, we asked for help, no one came forward, so shut up and let us do our job" :-)19:17
X-Fadeczr: See it as growing pains..19:18
czrX-Fade, I'm not complaining really :-)19:18
X-FadeYou read the article about the target amount of 770s they expected to sell..19:18
ferencczr: that's right. when we talk about "we" it is actually 3-4 guys at most.19:18
czrI posted 2350, 2351 and 2352 already today :-)19:18
czrferenc, yup19:18
ferencall of us are monitoring this server now.19:18
czrbtw, ferenc, when you have some spare moment, you might want to take a look at those. shouldn't be hard to fix/rectify.19:19
ferencwe had a session today at #karhu (freenode) where we put our heads together.19:19
czrsponsored by the finnish beer brewery?19:19
* czr wants in.19:19
X-FadeWell, not me at the moment. I'm going to get me some dinner. tty.19:19
ferencczr: not really sponsored :(19:19
czrheh, fair enough.. :-)19:19
ferencczr: i may call an other session at #karhu about the site if needed.19:20
ferenclet's just give this new cache a couple of days.19:20
JaffaAnother thing to communicate when it's gone down is a) when you're doing work [which you've done generally], and b) what kind of SLA we should "expect" (if that's not too formal). For example, if it's your day job, I wouldn't expect things to get fixed over a weekend. However, if there's community involvement, perhaps we can help there.19:20
* czr nods19:20
czryou might want to take the couple of days to write a small email and send it on maemo-users and maemo-devel too19:20
Jaffas/when it's gone down/when it's *calmed* down/19:20
infobotJaffa meant: Another thing to communicate when it's *calmed* down is a) when you're doing work [which you've done generally], and b) what kind of SLA we should "expect" (if that's not too formal). For example, if it's your day job, I wouldn't expect things to get fixe...19:20
czrjust to let people know what's been happening.19:20
ferencczr: point taken19:20
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czrferenc, the main issue was a lot of frustration when people were hacking/reading stuff during weekend and things just didn't plain work and no one knew why19:21
ferencJaffa: that's supposed to be my day job. what X-Fade does at the moment is totally volunteering stuff.19:21
czrferenc, that raised a lot of feelings19:21
X-FadeLoad on the machine is now reasonable as opposed to freakingly high before. So it looks better..19:21
ferencczr: yeah. i know. Sat evening i got a call from ISP while i was in a baby shop :)19:22
czrouch :-)19:22
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X-FadeAnyway, now I am really gone to get some dinner :)19:22
ferencthanks X-Fade once again!19:22
czrwell, I've fixed broken mail servers over the phone from my summer holiday in turkey. via other person typing commands into ssh (which they've never used before, nevermind unix :-)19:22
ferencX-Fade: we talk more tomorrow.19:22
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czrthat was interesting too :-)19:22
ferencJaffa: that's my day job which i am doing mostly day and night nowadays :(19:23
czrferenc, is it too much to ask what is cidercones role in all this?19:23
ferencbut i am off to play with my boy. i wish you all a nice evening or day :)19:23
czrah, ok. have fun :-)19:23
ferencczr: they are the ISP :)19:23
czrah. right :-)19:24
ferencczr: thanks for the proposal again!19:24
ferencbye all!19:24
czrnp, glad to be of any help really19:24
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rghoshcurious that this video recording gstreamer pipeline command (runnable from the command line) works in os2007 but not os2008 (same device):19:24
rghoshgst-launch-0.10 gconfv4l2src ! video/x-raw-yuv,width=176,height=144 ! tee name=tee ! hantro4200enc ! avimux name=mux ! filesink location=test.avi { dsppcmsrc ! queue ! audio/x-raw-int,channels=1,rate=8000 !audioconvert ! mux. } { tee. ! video/x-raw-yuv ! xvimagesink sync=false }19:24
rghoshif i change "video/x-raw-yuv,width=176,height=144" to "video/x-raw-yuv,width=176,height=144,framerate=\(fraction\)8/1", it doesn't crash, but it still doesn't work19:24
vabgeogreat to know that the webserver problem is now in control.19:25
* czr nods19:26
czrX-Fade, thanks for inviting ferenc19:26
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JaffaNow, if only we could get our N810s ;-)19:32
rghoshHmm, I suppose a clue is that in os2007, console output includes "New clock: audioclock0" whereas in os2008 it's "New clock: DSPClock"... I can't see why things should be different on the same device19:32
czrX-Fade, when you return, please see #2356 to see whether it's ok or not.19:33
vabgeo any new news on the dev discount code?19:37
czrvabgeo, it is still valid!19:37
czrif you mean availability, no. no news.19:37
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vabgeoya it still says no balance19:41
czrhmm. I wonder whether I should spend this evening productively and file some more bugs19:43
czrbtw, is there any nice way of getting a list of package names of installed packages? (just the package name list, without the other cruft that dpkg -l displays)19:44
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Slomo232WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!19:45
Slomo232WRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!!19:45
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sp3000czr: dpkg -l | awk '/^ii/{print $2}'19:45
* czr wonders what is that spambots idea19:45
czrsp3000, I normally use cut with that, but seriously, no simple solution?19:46
sp3000that isn't simple? :)19:46
* czr is ashamed to say no.19:46
czrbut yeah, it will work for now. I use cut -f3- --delim=" " or something similar normally19:47
sp3000note that dpkg -l knows about packages that aren't in a properly installed state (e.g removed but not purged config)19:47
czrtrue. I normally also add grep to that :-)19:48
sp3000hence the ^ii19:48
czrnow then. how to fix sbox segfaulting19:48
sp3000...but that's one | more ;)19:48
czryup. how do I filter dpkg -L pkgname list to only include files? :-)19:49
sp3000dunno, patch busybox? :)19:49
kaltsiapt-cache pkgnames .. I wonder if that prints the pkgs from repository too..19:49
czrsp3000, I think it's some kind of race inside sbox actually. whenever a lot of jobs are started, it break down. also when doing a lot of job control stuff19:49
czrkaltsi, I think it only uses Packages-files, so yes.19:50
sp3000kaltsi: it does19:50
czractually. what I want to do is the following:19:50
czrgrep for all SDK files for "Maemo" to see where it is incorrectly typed.19:51
czrthen, I'm going to repeat the same for "Hildon"19:51
czrand then, going to post 200 bugs.19:51
czrso looking a construct for that really.19:52
czrexcept that /scratchbox/login segfaulted again19:53
czrit clearly disagrees with me19:53
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* mgedmin always used dpkg-query -W --showformat '${STATUS} ${PACKAGE}=${VERSION}\n'|grep ' installed '|cut -d ' ' -f 4-19:56
czrthat's almost like my dpkg line really. sp3000's one is better though19:57
Andy80how do I set the keyboard layout in the "emulated" environment under Scratchbox, when I run a graphical application?19:58
czrsp3000, kaltsi, any recommendations on how I should start posting the bugs?19:59
czrthere's going to be a long list of packages involved19:59
kaltsiuh huh20:00
czrI'll place them under sdk and let them ripple from there20:00
kaltsiI'd collect the list and attach it to one bug20:00
sp3000probably better to test the waters at least before unleashing anything of biblical magnitude20:00
czrwell, that was my gut feeling as well20:00
czrbut then I thought that "hey, each bug report is more bad karma, right?" :-)20:00
czrI'm more worried that a single long list won't get the proper attention20:01
lcddczr: 'dpkg --get-selections' prints a pretty concise list20:01
bedboiis anyone actually concerned with maemo-karma?20:02
czrlcdd, not bad. thanks20:02
kaltsiczr so these bugs are about wrong use of the word maemo?20:02
czrbedboi, it was a joke. and it was bad karma :-)20:02
czrkaltsi, yes20:02
czrwhich is kind of stupid but I'm just trying to return a favor20:02
lcddczr: you can take that output and kinda sorta copy an installation with dpkg --set-selections20:03
czrlcdd, "sorta" is the keyword. there was a more reliable way to do that. don't remeber what though..20:03
bedboiczr: i'm asking this because Quim said that "Other users will benefit from this since they will find the feedback better there than in mailing lists archives. These comments and stars will affect your karma (hopefully in a positive way)."20:04
czrbedboi, considering that I don't qualify for dev programs anyway, I don't really care much about karma :-)20:05
czrI'm just trying to figure out what would be the best way to submit the bugs20:05
czrkaltsi, single file, right?20:05
kaltsiczr how many are there?20:05
czrkaltsi, "many"20:06
czrI haven't ran a full analysis yet20:06
czra lot of stuff uses Maemo like it's a noun20:06
czrlike, wherever they use maemo, they use Maemo instead. irrespective of context.20:06
czrit's kind of funny, I thought all this stuff went through legal and all that.20:07
kaltsiit does but they're only human20:07
czrthey're not!20:07
czrthey're lawyers!20:07
czrnever, ever, compare!20:07
* czr hides from The Department before it's too late20:08
czrhmm. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll do a test run. just to count stuff up20:08
kaltsiyep.. let's see the numbers :)20:08
czrBinary file /sbin/dosfsck matches20:09
czruhhh. why? :-)20:09
czrfsck.vfat and fsck.msdos match too btw20:09
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czr" -m       Maemo addition: MBs to spare in the system (default 30)"20:10
czrhelp printout20:10
czrcourtesy of your friend, 'string'20:10
czrthat help entry isn't really helpful btw.20:10
kaltsihmm should that be M or m20:10
kaltsiit's in the beginning of a sentence, but that's not really a sentence20:10
czrand I'm sure that help page does not have the full trademark clause20:11
czrwell. pretty certain at least :-)20:11
czrbins: /usr/lib/
czr/usr/include/libhildonwm/libhildonwm/hd-wm.h (maybe)20:13
czr/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libosso.pc (ironic)20:14
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kaltsithere are many maemo-sdk-something packages20:15
czrwell obviously20:15
czrI don't have the source code of the stuff that goes into IT20:15
czrand mind you, this isn't the source code20:15
czrthis is the binary packages of the SDK20:15
czrI'm betting once I'd run this on source code, it would multiply20:16
czrkaltsi, what I'm thinking is20:16
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czrcould it be possible that people inside osso/n would just run grep -r Maemo on _their_ stuff and just fix it20:17
czrit's pretty useless for me to file bugs against such things20:17
czrthey might as fix "Application Installer"/"Application Manager"/"Application manager" and "Gconf"/"GConf" and other similar issues20:17
czrseems silly20:17
czror, I could develop an automatic tool that'd save the world, and the environment.20:18
czrand that would report about these things20:18
czrhmm. I should probably try to download sources for each package next20:19
kaltsiit's hard to get people to do just this to a package if they're not modifying/planning to modify it otherwise20:19
czrI know20:19
czrthat's why I wanted to ask20:19
kaltsisomehow I feel that very few would do anything even if requested, but I'm a pessimist20:19
czr[sbox-CHINOOK_X86: ~/maemo-check/clinkc-av-1.0] > grep -r "Maemo" . | wc -l20:20
czrjust an example20:20
czrall of those uses go against the trademark policy (at least 90% of the ones that I checked)20:20
czrwhat is CyberLink AV anyway?20:20
kaltsiCyberLink for C is a UPnP library using C for small and embedded platforms. :)20:22
kaltsimr google told me that20:22
* czr is reading the changelog20:22
czr"* Created new release 1.0-13 without .svn directories in the package."20:22
czr"* Packages must be created with "-I.svn" flag from now on."20:22
* czr snickers20:22
czrwell. I guess it's somewhat ironic that a source code distributed under nokia patent license manages to break the trademark guidelines. but that's just me :-)20:23
czrkaltsi, I'll stop this insanity20:23
czrand just ignore the whole thing20:23
kaltsigood choise20:23
czrlet's pretend we never had this discussion :-)20:23
kaltsiI'll ask a lawyer to go and do a global search-replace for the word maemo for every code he finds.. :)20:24
czryeah. ask them to do it on the source code packages20:25
czrincluding shell scripts20:25
kaltsinah just patch the binaries in powerpoint or smtg20:25
czromg, you're using patented microsoft high value intellectual property!20:26
* czr runs to report to King Ballmer20:26
* czr just goes out for a smoke in reality.20:26
sp3000smoke signals!20:26
czrnah. just relaxation20:27
* czr is King Ballmer20:27
kaltsi*developers, developers, developers...*20:27
czryou've seen ballmer's peak?20:28
kaltsihaha, me loves xkcd20:28
* czr nods20:29
czrxkcd <3.20:29
zumbihi, i am a n770 owner, but with old arm IT2005 maemo edition, i'm about to upgrade, but which firmware version is the latest for such device and where do i find it?20:29
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_berto_there's IT2006 and IT2007HE (hackers' edition)20:29
_berto_afaik IT2006 is the official one20:29
_berto_the other one is for hackers20:30
zumbi_berto_: can i gain root on both editions?20:30
_berto_I think so, but I haven't got either one20:32
* zumbi sees the answer in the wiki :-)20:32
vegaixkcd has nothing on uncyclopedia :-|20:32
vegaisomeone needs to write an article about Maemo there, however20:32
vegaibut at least there's
kaltsiha! trademark violation right there.. czr, call the boyz!20:33
czrzumbi, you can. you have to set the device into r&d mode with the flasher20:33
czrkaltsi, who do you think I invited on the channel already ages ago?20:33
czrexplains the sudden +10 increase in nicks20:33
kaltsithe gorillas I presume20:34
czrI invited the lawyers and _their_ lawyers!20:34
* vegai laughs.20:34
czrok. maybe I should concentrate on real bugs instead for a while :-)20:34
vegaisadly, the Nokia article isn't very good20:35
kaltsiczr someone is working on the hello-world now20:35
czrkaltsi, cool20:35
czrkaltsi, will they fix the TN applet issue as well?20:35
czrI never got the applet on OS200820:35
kaltsiczr and someone also said that the app manager should work if it's in red pill mode.. didn't test it though (lazy)20:35
czrthat's not a proper solution though20:35
kaltsiyea it's a bit smelly20:36
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czrhow do I set it into red pill mode?20:36
kaltsiaha it even mentions that install from file there20:37
czrnot really20:38
czr"It would allow you to install every package with "Install from file", not just the ones in section "user"."20:38
czrthis is not the issue20:38
czrthe package I tried to install was in user-section20:38
kaltsiok.. didn't know that20:38
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czrI'll test, hold on20:38
kaltsiafk brb20:39
czrkaltsi, doesn't fix the issue at all20:40
czrthe bug holds20:40
timelesskonttori: ping20:40
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kaltsiczr ok.. bah I should have tested it myself too20:42
czrkaltsi, np, was quick enough to test. red pill doesn't fix it. maybe the other person misunderstood the issue20:42
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acydlordhappy thanksgiving to those of you that celebrate it20:45
czris the "yay, we fought off the evil british people"-thingy?20:46
czris it even20:46
kaltsiczr hm I can't even go to the catalogue page in AM..20:46
kaltsihildon-application-manager[21360]: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - void show_catalogue_dialog(xexp*, bool, void (*)(bool, void*), void*): assertion `catalogues != NULL' failed20:46
acydlordit's the yay we floated across the pond and made friends with the natives thing20:47
czrhmm. tools -> application catalogue?20:47
czracydlord, ah, that one.20:47
kaltsiczr yep that fails .. sniff20:47
czrkaltsi, weird. works for me. although I'm running with my hack now again20:48
czrhacks even20:48
timelessczr: can you ask konttori why ukmp doesn't install for us :)20:48
kaltsiI do have the 2-TN menu thingy going on20:48
czrkonttori, why ukmp doesn't install for us?20:48
czrkaltsi, I don't think it should affect it20:48
kaltsitimeless: it did install for me yesterday..20:48
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kaltsibut not before yesterday20:49
czreww. running red pill makes all packages visible in AM20:49
* czr goes to disable red pill asap20:49
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sp3000czr: there's those checkboxen in the options20:50
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czrsp3000, yeah, but I don't really need/want red pill20:50
czrit was just on to test one of kaltsis hypotheses20:50
sp3000(and yeah, the ui is kinda useless with all pkgs :)20:50
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czrglad vollmert isn't around hearing that20:51
czrhe'd spank you, you know :-)20:51
czrsometimes I find reading this refreshing:
czrwhenever you're in doubt. read that :-)20:54
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K`zanczr, so that is why all that stuff appeared after enabling red pill, thanks, will set blue.21:05
GNUtonis maemo using openGl?21:05
czrK`zan, yes. it was my fault21:05
czrGNUton, no21:05
czrand not OpenGL either.21:06
czrno 3D whatsoever.21:06
K`zanczr: I don't think so, had to turn it on for some game that was incomplete.21:06
GNUtonczr: ok..21:06
czrK`zan, it still might be might fault though :-)21:06
* czr wants to be the /evil.21:06
GNUtonis a good choice compile a package with -03 make flag?21:07
K`zanczr, if you need guilt, got for it :).  Easy resource to acquire these days :-)21:07
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K`zanLove this thing MORE today, lots less problems in 2007.21:07
czrK`zan, sure. I don't feel a thing anymore anyway :-)21:07
K`zanSoftware developer, I can tell.  Gets to be that way after the 3rd of 4th year of very frequent all nighters :-) LOL!21:08
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kaltsignuton: yes why not, but it makes debugging a bit harder, but if it's a finished product and you are looking for some performance improvements, go ahead21:09
K`zanDecided to hold off on the 2008 dev stuff until it is actually released for the n800.21:09
GNUtonkaltsi: ok.. thank! :)21:09
K`zanOn second (75th) though that might not be a good idea, at least I could get it installed and start getting familiar with it leasurely.21:10
czrK`zan, 4.0 isn't all that different from 3.221:11
K`zanczr: At this point my knowledge level of any of it is ZERO :-/.21:11
czrmainly lib name changes and couple of APIs and such. depends on which level you do your programming really21:11
czrK`zan, which language are you planning to use?21:12
K`zanczr: Going to have to figure out where I fit, if at all, into all this :-).21:12
K`zanForth?  COBOL?  ADA?21:12
czrif you're small, you'll fit in many places, don't worry :-)21:12
czrmore like, C, Python or Ruby? :-)21:12
kaltsisorry, no forth for os2008 :(21:12
K`zanLess small as the years pass :).21:12
K`zanHave to be C then.21:12
K`zanczr: Yes, oh busy one :-)21:13
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Andy80Glade doesn't let me set the Image for a GtkButton... why?21:19
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czrnecessary accessories to all finnish-speaking maemo-devs:
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vabgeoAndy80, did u try gtk_button_set_image function?21:40
Andy80vabgeo: not yet... I'm still at the Glade phase :)21:41
vabgeok, r u using it in python?21:41
vabgeoi meant r u going to use with pygtk or c21:42
czranyone have a n810 with a recent fw close by? to verify one bug21:43
czrbuglet even21:43
timelessit's in my backpack21:44
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czrtimeless, start maps, then select about21:47
czrabout map -> about map21:47
czrwhat do the copyright strings look to you?21:48
czrI'll report it21:48
czrjust wanted to verify21:48
timelesssadly, that isn't on my list of bugs i recall spotting in maps21:48
timelessand i had a *very* long list21:48
czrI can't blame you21:49
czrit's navicore methinks21:49
timelessit's contracted, if that's what you're saying21:49
timelessa large number of bugs are because of that, sure21:49
timelessExit being one of them21:49
czrit also looks pretty ugly21:50
czralthough I've never used used any gps app before21:50
czrbut still.21:50
timelessyes, it is very ugly21:50
timelessyou can play w/ my n81 8gb next week21:50
timelessfor comparison21:50
czrwhat is it running?21:50
timelessor maps on my e61i21:50
timelessthey both have a map app21:50
czrI've seen tom-tom in real use21:50
czrit was pretty pretty21:51
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timelessdunno if google java maps can access gps21:51
timelessok, this is strange21:51
kaltsihm what's wrong with the copyright strings?21:51
timelessi'm trying to decide if my phone is confused21:51
timelesskaltsi: what locale are you using?21:51
timelesskaltsi: what locale are you using?21:51
timelessok, my n81 8gb is going crazy21:51
czrkaltsi, did you check?21:52
kaltsilanguage english, regional settings finnish21:52
kaltsiczr yes21:52
czrkaltsi, I see A+'(c)21:52
czrkaltsi, which fw-rel?21:52
timelesskaltsi: there are two English's21:52
czror which map version (in the same place as about>about)21:52
kaltsithis is the wk 46-1121:53
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timeless46-11 isn't official21:53
czrah. I'm running 32-1821:53
czr42-18 even :-)21:53
timelessit could be fixed i suppose21:54
czrok, not reporting then. thanks kaltsi21:54
kaltsithe about doesn't say a version for the map here.. it just says 'Map'21:54
czrkaltsi, about map -> about map -> versio (last = button)21:54
czrversion even21:54
czrmine i App v., Map v. TA2006.0721:54
czrmine is21:55
timelessczr: ok, found the bits21:55
kaltsidoh.. ok App v2.2.6.344, map v., TA2006.0721:55
timelessa few secs and i can compare w/ kaltsi's version21:55
czr(btw, all typos are due to alcohol intake, not my general suckyness)21:55
czrtimeless, which bits?21:55
czrkaltsi, guess it's been fixed then21:55
czrcool, thanks21:55
timelessthe string is the same in 4621:56
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timelessif they fixed it, they fixed it by changing the encodings or not using the string21:56
timelessplease file the bug21:56
timelessbugs against released products (n810 is released) should be reported21:57
timelessso that people can know that they're fixed21:57
czrbut I'm not running a released product21:57
czrmine reads "N00"21:57
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czralthough N00B would be much better21:57
timelessyou're running the official software version21:57
* czr shrugs21:57
timelessthe hardware is not what's causing your flakiness21:57
czrI was given this, so I'm running it :-)21:57
czrhmm, let me check my language/locale-settings21:58
timelesskaltsi: what does data source say for you?21:58
czrEnglish (USA) / Suomi (Suomi) (last being regional)21:58
kaltsitimeless: (c) 2006 Tele Atlas N.V.21:59
timelessthe files are different21:59
timelessbetween gb and us21:59
timelessonly us is corrupt22:00
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czrthe us uses wrong encoding?22:00
timelessand it's still corrupt in 4622:00
czrok. I'll file?22:00
czrI want to!22:00
timelessbe sure to specify us!22:00
czrtimeless & kaltsi, ok!22:00
* czr hides & runs22:01
timelesss/us/US/ :(22:01
czr"The bug is caused by timeless & kaltsi"22:01
czrtimeless, I'll try to collect all the info from the discussion here22:01
timelessbah, your phone doesn't seem to work22:02
czrbtw, there's no app category for "maps"22:02
_Monkeyi guess mine is not22:02
timelessdoesn't matter22:02
timelessuse translations22:02
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timelessit's its own product22:02
timelessbut i'll fix maps i suppose22:02
timelessproposal for how to deal w/ it?22:02
czrit works22:02
timelesswhere did you look for maps?22:02
czrbut I'm wearing headphones :-)22:02
timeless_monkey forget mine22:02
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot mine22:02
czrand the phone was in the other room :-)22:02
timeless_monkey mine is <reply>22:02
_MonkeyOK, timeless.22:02
timelessdid you fix that? :)22:03
czrthe phone? yes. it's close now22:03
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timelessthat's my n81 8gb playing noise for you :)22:03
timelesshow's the noise sound? :)22:03
timelessyou think you're drunk?22:04
czrsounds like some very very deeply compressed hillbilly thingies :-)22:04
czryeah, hearing voices from deep space :-)22:04
timelessi've heard this effect before22:04
timelessi can't remember what it's called22:04
czrthe tin-can effect22:04
czrbut this one was much worse22:04
timelessthe strange thing is that the normal audio is still playing22:04
sp3000the hillbillies from outer space effect?22:04
czrsp3000, exactly!22:04
timelesssp3000: do i have your contact info?22:05
sp3000I have no idea what that means :)22:05
czrhe wants to exchange mobile business cards!22:05
* czr didn't know that either :-)22:05
czrI tried to explain to timeless that no one does that here, but what can I do! :-)22:05
czrtimeless, where's the translations product?22:06
czrah, found it22:06
timelessmy browser's going crazy too22:07
czrtimeless, what do you call those A-symbols anyway?22:07
czrno. what were they..22:07
timelesshat :)22:07
sp3000diaeresis, ring, acute, grave?22:07
sp3000oh, and hat :)22:07
timelessit's not accute22:07
czrthat's not official :-)22:07
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timelessthis is what charmap.exe is for22:08
czryou sure?22:08
timelessdid you leave hom w/o it?22:08
* czr hits timeless with an i18n slamon22:08
czrsalmon even22:08
timelessU+00C2: Latin Capital LEtter A With Circumflex22:08
timelessso says microsoft22:08
czrbut that's not unicode codepoint22:08
timelesssure it is22:08
czrA + Circumflex I'll call it.22:08
czrit can't be22:08
czrcan it?22:09
* czr checks unicode.org22:09
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timelessyou don't trust file format?22:09
czrI trust no one!22:09
czrbut I want to believe!22:09
czr00C2 it is22:10
* timeless doesn't think we make that22:10
czror rathar 000000C222:10
czrUCS-4 ftw!22:10
czrrather even22:10
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* timeless grumbles22:11
timelessok, how the heck do i get a vcard from this stupid phonebook22:11
timelessin the old days there was a convenient save link22:11
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czrtimeless, kaltsi : bug 235922:12
_MonkeyBug 2359 might be found at
czrtimeless, feel free to correct it. I'm slightly drunk after all :-)22:13
timelessczr: the sound changed between when i called you and when i called sp3000 :(~22:14
czrsp3000, actually enjoyed the noises?22:14
timelessyour noise was better22:14
czryou're talking to the person who has this in "current projects list": "MUPE/Chirp (Most Useless Project Ever): software build process audiolizer (suprisingly enough binary object files do not sound like white noise). On hold."22:15
czrI know what noise sounds like! believe me.22:15
czrand no, I didn't have time to finish that. but the basic process works. it hijacks gcc and ld22:16
czrand plays back object files as they complete22:16
Tiekuczr: hi, you helped me out before cheers :) i've made alot of progress on getting my n800 to access a network samba share. the key command was to use insmod ./cifs.ko. however that becomes undone each time the n800 is rebooted. what part of linux can i get to run that command or equivilant at boot as root?22:16
Tiekuhope thats clear enough :)22:16
czrTieku, hmm. the n800 isn't exactly your regular linux distribution. let me looksee22:16
czryeah, I get your question.22:16
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czrnot sure about the answer though :-)22:16
timelessisn't rc.d around?22:17
Tiekuto be honest its my first linux distro so im learning :)22:17
Tiekuwhich directory would it be in?22:17
timelessthose exist anyway22:17
timelessunderstanding them is an exercise for google/wikipedia22:17
Tiekui have those22:17
czr /etc/rcS.d22:18
Tiekuthey can run commands as root?22:18
czrput a script there that will insmod22:18
Tiekuexcellent thanks guys :)22:18
czrTieku, do this:22:18
Tiekujust need that push in the right direction -- planning to write a tutorial for wiki after all this!22:18
czrcat > /etc/rcS.d/S99awesomehack22:18
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czrinsmod /path/to/your/cifs.ko22:18
czrchmod +x /etc/rcS.d/S99awesomehack22:18
timelessecho #!/bin/sh > /etc/rcS.d/S99awesomehack22:19
timelessecho insmod /path/to/your/cifs.ko >> /etc/rcS.d/S99awesomehack22:19
timelesssafer than figuring out ctrl-d :)22:19
czrwell, either way will work!22:19
Tiekucheers guys. i'll do a little reading first :)22:19
czrjust don't listen to timeless!22:19
timelesssp3000: does the sound remind you of a plumber ?22:20
sp3000echo #... won't work that well :)22:20
timelesstimeless@swift:/tmp/microb-l10n% echo #a22:20
timelesswfm (solaris)22:20
sp3000I ...don't know plumbers that intimately I'm afraid22:21
czrtimeless, your N800 runs solaris? ;-)22:21
timelessno, but swift does :)22:21
sp3000your shell is different ;)22:21
czr"challenged" even.22:21
timeless[ ~] > echo \#a22:21
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timelessok. for busybox you seem to need '22:21
timelesschallenged indeed22:22
czrI'd assume you'd need an escape for most shells just to be one the safe side22:22
infobotczr meant: I'd assume you'd need an escape for most shells just to be on the safe side22:22
timelessi was using zsh on solaris22:22
timelesswhy anyone would use busybox is beyond me ;-)22:22
czrthey might be using behind your back!22:23
czrug-haxors and all.22:23
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czrtimeless, confess, it was you who wrote hello-world-app that assumed array support in /bin/sh, right?22:23
timelessczr: no, that was gisburn22:23
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timeless(ask sp3000 for context)22:24
czrsp3000, I need context!22:24
sp3000for wh22:24
czrfor gisburn22:24
czralthough I'm 55% sure timeless is just pulling my leg.22:25
timelesswill probably work22:25
* sp3000 doesn't find the edge (gisburn, hello-world-app)22:25
timelessgisburn used to be interested in mozilla/sun22:26
timelessnow he's driving ksh93 for opensolaris22:26
timelessksh93 includes arrays,and all sorts of interesting things22:26
czrwell. whoever wrote the pre/postinsts in hello-world-app should be "educated"22:26
czralthough I've run across the same problems before22:26
timelesssorry, i don't know who did stuff @nokia22:27
timelessi'd assume they predate my joining22:27
czrthe world is filled is crappy scripts which use bashisms and still use #!/bin/sh22:27
timelessi think ubuntu is helping fix that22:27
timelessby switching to dash :)22:27
czrthat's one of the issues I had to educate HP about22:27
czrdamn morons22:27
czrsorry for venting. but it's just too silly.22:27
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* timeless loves cryptographically signed change versions22:29
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo22:29 has improved *a lot* since I last saw it22:30
mgedminkudos to developers!22:30
inzThe title is a bit funny22:31
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mgedminhm, many screenshots have disappeared22:32
mgedminwell, a few22:32
mgedminI remember uploading a screenshot of maemo mapper once22:32
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timelesshrm, someone wanna file bugs on bomberman for me? :)22:34
czrmgedmin, send an email to maemo2midgard, I'm sure the webpeople would appreciate some positive feedback for a change :-). although I'm not sure that's the proper list22:35
timelesshey, does the fornt page of have an error for anyone else?22:35
timeless( ! ) Warning: file_get_contents(/var/cache/midgard/midcom/content/maemo.org_80_/838549fc80c511dc9bb2f92a2dda9c409c40) [function.file-get-contents]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /usr/share/midgard/svn/midcom/trunk/src/midcom.core/midcom/services/cache/backend/flatfile.php on line 8322:35
czrcached file timeless?22:35
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timelessi don't visit these pages often22:35
mgedminany ideas why I can edit the page for the OS2006 version of maemo mapper, but not the OS2007 version?22:36
timelesslastupdated 2007-11-20 08:05:57222:36
czrwell. no errors here22:36
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mgedminwhee, "( ! ) Notice: A non well formed numeric value encountered in /usr/share/midgard/svn/midcom/trunk/src/midcom.core/midcom/services/cache/module/content.php on line 1105"22:37
mgedminand the same for line 110822:37
timelessug 2360 Submitted22:38
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timelessok, you can see the pretty page i got :)22:39
timelessit won't let me login22:39
timelessat all22:40
czrseems slow to me22:40
* sp3000 got three stacks on first load, but nothing much happening on the second load22:40
czrbut then again, they wanted us to bang the server!22:40
mgedminI think I now understand why everyone is griping about maemo.org22:40
kaltsisomeone might be working on it.. it was really fast.. wouldn't let me login.. then it slowed down and I was able to login.. now login doesn't work again22:40
timelesshey, it's half up22:40
timelessthat's more than when people gripe22:40
timeless(it's usually entirely down)22:41
czrit works for me, but it's either fast or slow22:41
timelessthese are just application errors :)22:41
czrhmm. should probably test some of the applications too22:41
timelessdoes planet work today?22:42
timelessok, vern is way too long winded :)22:42
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timelessok, whomever kaltsi is, his profile isn't loading at all22:43
kaltsithat's me22:43
timelessunfortunately, it's kinda poitnless22:44
timelesssince i didn't want your profile22:44
timelessi wanted to read your blog22:44
czrdoes anyone else find the whole NOKIA notice somewhat silly?22:44
czrsince none of the apps are provided by nokia to start with? :-)22:44
kaltsiin 2007 at least the FM Radio app is nokia :)22:44
timelessczr: which notice?22:45
mgedminI uploaded two different screenshots for two different apps in two different tabs22:45
czron the main OS2007 page in downloads. or OS200822:45
mgedminbut when the requests finally got through, I see one app with a duplicated screenshot and the other app with no screenshots at all22:45
timelesssounds buggy to me :)22:45
czrmgedmin, wait for couple of days. maybe they're still fixing something22:46
czrbut the whole site seems very slow to me now22:46
timelessit doesn't say Mozilla based browser is provided by nokia22:46
timelesswho do we have to bribe?22:46
timelessooh, clicking on the pictures zooms them22:47
timelessah yes22:47
czrjust hover over them22:47
timelessfm radio does have the nokia icon22:47
timelessso does media streamer for n80022:47
maddlerevening all...22:48
timelesshovering doesn't seem to do anything22:48
czrI'm getting only stalls from now22:48
czrtimeless, works here (konq)22:48
czrold konq at that too22:48
timelessso, seriously22:49
timelesshow does one badge something as nokia?22:49
timelessi already did it on garage/trove22:49
czrcopy the nice nokia logo into the screenshot? ;-)22:49
timelessstill lists a bunch of things that i have to assume are *not* nokia provided22:50
X-Fadetimeless: I asked Quim to mark all Nokia applications as Nokia..22:50
X-FadeI have only marked a few to test..22:50
timelessx-fade: i balme you22:50
X-FadeYou want me to update microb? :)22:50
timelessin downloads? yes22:51
timelesssince i marked microb in garage22:51
timelessbut why are italian docs, sherlock, illumination all listed as nokia provided?22:51
X-FadeSorry, no garage for me ;)22:51
timelessthat's fine22:51
czrhmm. how come after logging in, I can't rate nor comment on the packages?22:51
timelessi could fix the garage items if i really cared22:52
mgedminczr: are you looking at http or https pages?  afaiu rating & commenting only works via https22:53
czrmgedmin, https22:53
czrthe whole page is missing the voting buttongs via https22:53
czrvia http it "kind of" shows them22:53
czrbut I'm not logged in then22:53
timelesskaltsi: can i bug you about text errors in ?22:54
mgedminyay, the front page (os2007) now only lacks two screenshots: leafpad and wireless-tools22:54
mgedminany volunteers?22:54
timelessmgedmin: i could get a picture from my 770 :)22:54
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kaltsitimeless: yes of course22:55
timelessis that os2007?22:55
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mgedminos2006 front page lacks more screenshots22:55
* timeless thinks mgedgmin cheated22:55
X-Fadetimeless: btw liked my ACID2 screenshot I made for microb?22:55
timelessx-fade: yes!22:55
timelessthat's os2006, no?22:55
mgedminum... yes?22:55
timelessbut you used it on
timelessfor osso xterm22:56
timelessthat's wrong :)22:56
mgedminI blame midgard22:56
mgedminI uploaded an os2006 screenshot for the os2006 version of maemo-mapper22:56
mgedminthen I looked at the os2007 page of maemo mapper and saw that screenshot22:56
mgedminthen I decided screenshots are os-independent22:56
mgedminso there22:56
_Monkeyso there is, like, no way to upgrade the flash in the 770 (memory wize...)22:56
timelessvagalume has the same problem22:57
timeless_monkey forget so there22:57
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot so there22:57
timeless_monkey so there is <reply>22:57
_MonkeyOK, timeless.22:57
* timeless likes how vagalume is on a device that's about to run out of power :)22:57
timelessdidn't anyone teach you guys how to use photoshop? :)22:57
timelessor at least mspaint.exe :)22:57
mgedminI had to learn gimp all by myself22:58
czrwhat is this photoshop?22:58
czrgoing into a shop and buying a photo>?22:58
timelessczr: dunno, never used it22:58
timelessbut people always suggest photoshopping to make sure pictures don't look bad22:58
|Rlast time i heard, it was at 2.0 and was a great paint replacement :P22:58
czrdoes buying a photo on the street count as photoshopping?22:58
timelessand, come on, you don't want to show off an app w/ the battery nearly dead22:58
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czrthere's a new gimp now btw22:58
czranyhow, I can't vote22:59
czrnor can I leave comments22:59
czrI wanted to!22:59
czrbut not going to!22:59
X-Fadetimeless: Microb updated.22:59
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* czr sulks22:59
timelessbtw, the nokia thing seems to cause scrollbars to appear randomly22:59
timelessor maybe that's unrelated?23:00
* mgedmin screenshots xterm on os200723:00
timelessx-fade: look at claws mail
czrmgedmin, s/screenshots/photoshops/g23:00
* mgedmin hands czr a pack of sticky notes23:00
czrmgedmin, gah, I hate Notes! especially Domino ones!23:00
* czr runs in total gaah.23:00
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timelessthe problem is that claws mail has too many votes23:01
timelessyou need to reduce its vote count to less than 923:01
timelessotherwise it has a scrollbar23:01
mgedminwhat's up with
mgedminthere's a horizontal scrollbar23:02
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mgedminand the homepage link is half-hidden23:02
timelessx-fade: do you see that?23:03
czrI think I've just had enough for tonight23:03
timelessor do you need a picture?23:03
X-Fadetimeless: Sorry real life sometime interferes ;)23:03
czrnight all ->23:03
X-Fadetimeless: Or it should have less downloads ;)23:04
timelessit'd need a lot fewer downloads23:04
timelessit's easier to take away 2 votes :)23:04
X-FadeYeah, need to do a some CSS..23:04
timelessok cool23:04
* timeless discards picture23:04
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timelessbtw, can you fix the os200x links?23:05
timelessthey always take me back to the main page23:05
timelessif i'm on 2007/internet23:05
timelessthe 2008 link should take me to 2008/internet23:05
* mgedmin tempts fate again by editing two pages at the same time23:05
* sp3000 should home and dinner23:05
X-Fadetimeless: breadcrumbs you mean?23:05
sp3000all this verbing makes me hungry23:05
timelessx-fade: not the normal breadcrumb23:05
* czr food sp30023:05
* mgedmin remembers to eat his dinner23:06
czrand *1023:06
timelessx-fade: you know how in mxr you can use a dropdown to switch trees23:06
timelessit keeps the path when you do it23:06
X-FadeAh, file an enhancement request ;) Wasn't in the specs ;)23:06
timelessif you use the dropdown23:06
timelessit'll take you to23:06
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X-FadeOr requirements..23:06
X-FadeYeah, I get it..23:07
timelesswhat component?23:07
timelessoih, downloads23:07
X-FadeI first want to get rid of all the errors etc. Then we can start doing enhancements..23:07
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timelessBug 2361 Submitted23:08
_MonkeyBug 2361 might be found at
X-FadeI'll let Quim prioritize those..23:09
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timeless a set of scripts to help /with/ debugging tasks.23:10
timelessdisplays log /messages/ as banners.23:10
timeless a log message /collecting/ service.23:10
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sp3000mgedmin reminds me of the time when beta-testing an enrollment system at school its developers had us use their very own bug tracking system where if you view bug 1, view bug 2, edit and save bug 1 -> get bug 1 saved on bug 223:10
_MonkeyBug 2 might be found at
sp3000that was awesome23:10
* sp3000 slaps _Monkey23:10
kaltsitimeless: thanks I'll fix those once I can log in23:11
timelesskaltsi: remove all the periods23:11
sp3000that's an example of editing two things /actually/ biting you :D23:11
timelessnone of those things are sentences23:11
pygisp3000: new way of thinking ... adapt :D23:11
timelessyou need a new description for less23:11
timeless"a file pager" is meaningless23:11
kaltsiI don't know how to describe it23:12
timelessscreen also needs a better description23:12
timelessit doesn't manage screens23:12
kaltsior that23:12
timelessit provided access to detachable console/terminals (ttys)23:12
timelesssharable too23:12
timelessprovide_s_ :(23:12
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timelessa command line utility to /take/ screenshots.23:12
doc|workhow do you do "escape" on the built in kb?23:13
timelessmeasures the time taken to update _the_ screen after user action.23:13
timelessdoc: it's the funny hardware button23:13
timelessnot on the keyboard23:13
timelessit might have a curly arrow23:13
doc|workwhich funny one? there are loads :)23:13
doc|workah, ok23:13
timelessan utility to read and write data across network connections23:13
timeless^ needs work. don't ask me how to fix :(23:14
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timelessa non-interactive network downloader.23:14
timeless^ needs work. don't ask me how to fix :(23:14
timelessit doesn't download networks23:14
timelessa user interface to -- oprofile.23:14
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timelessfwiw, this syntax has meaning, if you can't figure it out, ask czr :)23:14
* czr hmms on the background23:15
kaltsihuh now I'm really offended.. really23:15
timelesssorry :(23:15
timelessbe happy you didn't get my rant about "loose"23:15
czrkaltsi, don't be, he's like that with everyone :-)23:15
timelesssomeone else @n did today23:15
czrwe can join up on him in secret23:16
czralthough it's not a secret anymore!23:16
kaltsiI hate syntax errors.. and I'm embarrassed about that page as it is.. just too many things to take care of23:16
czrgang up!23:16
czrmob up even!23:16
czrbut we need more people for that23:16
timelessautomatize user actions under X11.23:16
timelessautomatize isn't a word23:16
timelessautomate is23:17
timelessbut i don't know if you want it23:17
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czris automatic a word?23:17
czrautomagic even23:17
timelessautomatic is23:17
timelessautomagic shoudln't be23:17
timelessgah, it's late23:17
timelessplease ignore my typos P:)23:17
czrautomagic is hidden in the training material23:18
timelesstools for manipulating linux wireless extensions.23:18
timelessshould that be "Linux"?23:18
czralthough NAO OK! is too23:18
kaltsioho.. I had Linux there once.. where did it go :)23:18
timelessThese tools can be installed /on/ the device23:18
czrand it probably should also be Wireless Extensions23:18
czras it's a defined API23:18
timelessthat'd require me to know that :)23:18
czrkaltsi, it was scrubbed in legal :-)23:18
* timeless is a rudimentary syntax checker23:19
* czr is a semantic unit, without syntax checking capabilities23:19
czrtogether, we can form the Ultimate Evil and MultiAnnoyance Engine23:19
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czralthough that exact phrasing is probable already trademarked by Microsoft since Vista launch23:19
czrhmm. let me think23:20
timelessDevelopers can also /install/ them /on|to/ the device or in -- Scratchbox -- using ...23:20
czrprobably even23:20
timelessthat's one way23:20
timelessotherwise it'd probably be The Scratchbox Environment23:20
timelessor something23:20
doc|workwhat's the standard user's password?23:20
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timelessyou can't login as it23:20
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doc|worktimeless: I wanted to sudo23:20
timelesslog in [technically]23:20
timelessyou can't23:20
doc|workand he doesn't have wheel access23:20
timelessssh root@localhost23:21
_Monkeyssh root@localhost is the way I'm using it on n80023:21
_Monkeyrootme is the default pw?23:21
doc|workah, ok, thanks23:21
timelessgood bot23:21
czrdoc|home, enable r&r mode on the device, login as root, then use : passwd user  to set the password23:21
czrif you then need root, use sudo gainroot to get it (from user)23:21
czrRage & Dangerful23:21
timelessyou said r&r23:21
czr(research & development)23:21
czroh, heh..23:21
czrrest & recreation mode :-)23:22
timelessTo activate the sdk repository with the Application Manager, create a new catalogue like this:23:22
timelesskaltsi: you might want to explain how to get to whereever there is23:22
czrtimeless, Application _m_anager!23:22
doc|workarse, need to install ssh client :/23:22
timelessyou kinda skipped that step23:22
doc|worker, server23:22
timelessoh, and what czr said!23:22
timelessalso, if your target audience is en-US not en-GB23:22
timelessthen /catalog/23:22
kaltsihey my locale was en-UK :)23:23
timelessi'm sure it was23:23
czrkaltsi, _was_ indeed.23:23
timelessi don't care :)23:23
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timelessNote!: To have these tools visible in the /Application/ manager, you need to have the Red Pill Mode activated23:23
czrdamn. the force is strong in this one.23:23
kaltsibantha bodo23:23
timelessnote that while manager should be lowercase23:23
timelessApplication shouldn't be :)23:23
czryes. the sw is called "Application manager".23:24
doc|workany eta on os2008 for us n800 plebs? :)23:24
timeless0 for 2 and 1 penalty for inconsistency23:24
kaltsihm hm aha23:24
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czrplease don't use other forms. especially Application Installer, Application installer, application installer nor Application Manager.23:24
czrdoc|work, december23:24
timelessnor application mnaager23:24
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czrnot application mnaager either23:25
timelesseven spelled correctly, it's still wrong :)23:25
kaltsihow about Stuff gizmo23:25
timelessnever say 'stuff' in technical writing :)23:25
timelessask czr :)23:25
czrsay "crap" or "things" or "shit"23:25
czrmuch easier to understand :-)23:25
kaltsiwith stuff I mean the people who work for me23:25
timelessone of those three are ok23:25
timelesshrm, one of those three /is/ ok :(23:26
czrkaltsi, staff?23:26
timeless/To install/ a binary package in scratchbox:23:26
czrXML ERROR!23:26
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_Monkeywell, Scratchbox is a cross-compilation toolkit for maemo application development.  Homepage:   Maemo 3.x (bora/N800) tutorial:  Maemo 2.2 (gregale/770) tutorial:  A walkthrough for 3.x:  Scratchbox Downloads:
doc|workI'm assuming it's safe to change the root passwd, right?23:26
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czrdoc|work, with passwd, yes. and you should do it too.23:27
X-Fadedoc|work: Sure, you can always re-flash ;)23:27
doc|workczr: thanks23:27
doc|workX-Fade: heh23:27
timelesskaltsi: that's a global change at the bottom (3 times)23:27
kaltsiyep, noticed23:27
timelessdoc: keep in mind that the device lock won't be reset23:28
timelessso don't forget it :)23:28
timeless(read the manual)23:28
czr(and file bug reports)23:28
X-FadeOk, I'm go call it a day. Way too much spare time spend here today :)23:28
timelesskaltsi: why don't you link to instead of the useless English feedback note at the bottom?23:28
czrkaltsi, what exactly did timeless force you to fix now?23:29
X-Fadetimeless: That too..23:29
kaltsitimeless: why indeed23:29
doc|worktimeless: yep, is different anyway :)23:29
timelessespecially since you did at the top...23:29
doc|workhmmm, does maemo ignore the hosts file?23:29
czrI like the difference in nano and vi: "   a friendly text editor." vs "  a text editor."23:30
kaltsiwell if someone wants to say hello then I don't want him to do it through the bugzilla23:30
timelesssuggest irc :)23:30
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czr"  a user interface to the oprofile." -> "a user interface to OProfile"23:30
czrlatter being the proper name of the sw23:31
kaltsiI hate OProfile.. and especially OProfileUI23:31
timelessyeah, czr would be the one to catch the case for things like that23:31
kaltsithe capitalization23:31
czrkaltsi, you can blame the damn yankees for winning the cold war!23:31
kaltsithey didn't win.. the SU just quit :)23:31
timelessshows X /clients'/ X resource usage.23:31
czrotherwise we'd all be using EQUAL_RIGHTS_LETTER_SIZE_SYSTEM23:31
timelessnote that change :)23:31
timelessi could be wrong, but i doubt it :)23:32
kaltsitimeless: right.. more than one23:32
czrkaltsi, yeah, I know a thing or two about that.. was born there after all :-)23:32
kaltsihehe :)23:32
* czr is waiting for his 47th birthday23:32
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czrindeed. kitsch and all, but still.23:33
* timeless is a young wipper snapper23:33
timelessoh right23:33
timelessso, quick survey23:33
czroh, I still have a fair distance to go until 47 :-)23:33
timelesswhat's the name of the os that runs on your n800?23:33
czrIT OS200823:33
timeless/msg appreciated :)23:33
* timeless doesn't want to bias people :(23:33
czrtimeless, you want to have more specific one or that one?23:33
timelessok, so, in we use ITOS or something like that23:34
czrI'd really like to call it GNU/Linux with a lot of proprietary crap on top, but I can't, can I.23:34 wants to add an OS value for the nokia devices23:34
timelessthe question is, what should it say?23:34
timelessi can give you one thing it should *not* say :)23:34
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timelessOS2005? :)23:35
kaltsiczr OS2007/OS2007/OS2007 ?23:35
timelessanyway, what should it say?23:35
_Monkeyrumour has it Maemo is a development platform to create applications for the Nokia N800 and N810 Internet Tablets.
czrkaltsi, yes, you sir, are the first one to get the prize :-)23:35
mgedminNokia Internet Tablet?23:35
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doc|workboring bot23:35
* czr spanks kaltsi with three salmons. 2.1 surround style23:36
timelesskinda works23:36
timelessi suppose23:36
czrtimeless, do you have a point to your question? :-)23:36
doc|workso, anyone know if maemo ignore the hosts file?23:36
timelessczr: i need a suggestion to replace the bug you see there23:36
* czr peeks23:36
timelessdoc: there's some explanation of that floating aroudn23:37
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timelessbut iirc the short answer was yes :)23:37
czrhmm. I don't see any bugs at that URL23:37
timelessczr: browse through the os list23:37
timelessit's a query field :)23:37
czrhmm. advanced search?23:37
doc|worktimeless: well that's useful :|23:37
timelessoh brother23:37
timelessyes  sorry23:37
|RLinux Maemo ?23:37
doc|work(the idea, not your help, thanks for that)23:37
timeless|r: right23:37
czrLinux Maemo is not a valid OS string23:38
czrit doesn't even obey the trademark guidelines23:39
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timelessczr: 405005 is the bug :)23:39
czrand it's not even an OS for ${DEITY}s sake23:39
timelessbut i don't have a real suggestion23:39
timelessas i said, i know one thing it should not say :)23:39
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czrit depends on what you really want to use the OS for23:40
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czris it maemo specific23:40
czror is it IS OT specific23:40
czrI guess maemo would make more sense, right?23:40
mgedmin800say "cheese" for the screenshot!23:40
czrdamn you |R23:40
timelessno cursing!23:40
kaltsijuusto :)23:40
czralthough I liked french food a lot, no offence23:40
czroffense even23:40
czrlatin alphabet sucks23:41
czrtimeless, what about a temporary solution: Linux (maemo)23:41
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kaltsitimeless: ok thanks for the syntax checking, I appreciate it! I'll fix the page tomorrow if the gods of login allow.23:42
czrthat doesn't violate the trademark, and makes it clear that it is not a completely separate entity from Linux23:42
timelessmy main objection is that people tend to save queries and links23:42
timelesswhich means that things are likely to last23:42
timelessso i'd like to get the right answer picked asap23:42
timelessand not have too many transitions, as each one breaks queries23:42
czrthere's no right answer23:42
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czrplan for changes23:43
czrthat's the only thing you can do23:43
kaltsimaemo Chinook Linux 423:43
timelessno :)23:43
kaltsiChimeo Linook 423:43
czrnow that I'd vote for23:43
timeless<unnamed> ?23:43
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kaltsi<vote bush>23:43
timelesswhen i installed bomberman, that's what its info dialog said :)23:43
czr"whatever crap is running on the so called Internet Tables from Ikea"23:43
timelessczr: close enough :)23:44
doc|workI want to start a band called untitled. We'd instantly be the most prolific band ever23:44
* doc|work eyes kaltsi 23:44
mgedminI suspect "Nokia Internet Tablet" would be clearest to a J. Random Person on the street23:44
mgedminbut those don't use bugzilla23:44
timelessthat's long, but not an OS23:44
timelesstwo minuses :)23:45
timelessNokia Internet Tablet OS23:45
mgedmin"Nokia Internet Tablet OS" was long, so I shortened it :)23:45
timelesswould be ok, and is probably not too bad23:45
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timelesshow long is the Windows Mobile 6 Professional item?23:45
czrNokia IT OS?23:45
timelessWindows Mobile 6 Professional23:45
doc|workNookie OS23:45
timelesshey, it's shorter than the wm6p item23:45
mgedminIT means Information Technology everywhere but here23:45
timelessso i guess it's fine23:45
czrdoc|work, my spellchecker suggests Nookie for Nokia btw23:45
doc|workczr: hahaha23:46
czramongst other things23:46
timelessczr: nice23:46
doc|workmany things suggest nookie :/23:46
* czr hugs ispell for all the semantic connotations23:46
timelessCahokia, Nonskid, Novelia, Norina23:46
timelessthat's what minefield suggests :)23:46
czrwould be apt at so many levels.23:47
doc|workthey're made in china23:47
timelesskaltsi: thanks for accepting feedback :)23:47
czr"not quite, but close"23:47
kaltsimy OS was 0nce bitten by a llama23:47
czrkaltsi, I can check it too if you want to23:47
doc|worker, or korea, with parts from china23:47
czrbut I'm more of a technical person23:48
czrsuck at English23:48
czrtimeless, you really have to decide btw?23:48
czron the OS name?23:48
doc|workbtw, are there larger capacity batteries available?23:48
kaltsiczr sure but could you wait until I fix timeless' list.. it's a lot of fixes :)23:48
timelessczr: yes23:48
czrkaltsi, yell me when you're done, I'll take a quick looksee after that23:48
timelessdoc: no23:48
timelessbut there's this external battery thingy23:49
czrtimeless, I'd suggest you steer away from using Nokia23:49
timelesssomeone found23:49
kaltsiczr ok.. that'll be tomorrow then23:49
czrtimeless, unless you want to amend your trademark usage statement on mozilla.org23:49
timelessczr: can you comment yourself? :(23:49
czrwhy would I comment myself? :-)23:49
timelessdo we not have a disclaimer "some items may be trademarks of other owners"?23:49
czrwell.. then you must not be the person who makes/suggests the name :-)23:50
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mgedminhaha, osso-screenshot-tool --help creates a file named '--help'23:50
timelessczr: i'm responsible for us fixing Open Solaris23:50
czrmgedmin, what did you expect, n00b! ? :-)23:50
timelessmgedmin: that's ok, we fixed that23:50
timelessosso-screenshot-tool no longer exists23:50
czrtimeless, heh. ok, I guess if you're comfortable with that, I'm ok23:50
mgedmintimeless: what replaced it?23:50
timelessscreenshot-tool :)23:51
kaltsioh crap that same bug is in screenshot-tool, I'll fix that tomorrow23:51
czrtimeless, Nokia maemo | or | Nokia IT OS23:51
czror Nokia Internet Tablet OS23:51
mgedminthat's probably in chinook?23:51
czrone of those three. which ever you think would be most appropriate to the product you're bugging23:51
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czrtimeless, microb is oss, right?23:51
timelessczr: yes23:51
czrtimeless, and this is about microb, right?23:51
timelessczr: the ui isn't :)23:51
czrbut bugzilla.mozilla-wise23:52
timelessczr: essentially23:52
czrtimeless, right. so then, I'd suggest to go with Nokia maemo23:52
kaltsimgedmin: I'll fix that in screenshot-tool tomorrow... can't believe I didn't test that O_o23:52
czrtimeless, since that is not boud to any physical device. anyone can install micron on the sdk, (at least at some point), right?23:52
czrtimeless, and that way it keeps clear from N IT legal23:52
timelessczr: you can use TestGtkEmbed yes23:53
czrI see maemo as much more fair game for OSS participation compared to IT23:53
timelessbut that won't give you microb23:53
doc|worktimeless: got a link to that battery thing?23:53
timelessdoc: um, try thoughtfix23:53
timelessthat's usually the right answer23:53
czrtimeless, hmm. so there's no easy way to test microb in SDK?23:53
timeless(might be wrong in this case)23:53
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doc|worktimeless: thanks23:54
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* mgedmin imagines the poor pigeons that carry the internet packets to and from maemo.org23:55
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