IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2007-11-21

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czrelb, did you ever find out the fix for the dbus_bus_get core-problem?00:04
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elbczr: no, let me try some more directed inquiries00:05
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czrelb, no prob :-)00:05
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elbczr: does g_return_if_fail(0) cause your application to exit?00:09
czrelb, the application will abort internally _in_ dbus_bus_get00:09
czrwithout the functione ever returning to the app00:09
elbright, I understand that00:09
elbI'm asking a different question00:09
czrindeed :-). hmm00:09
czrlet's see00:09
czrah. let's not see. I'm not using GLib.00:10
elbat all?00:10
elbso, no Gtk+?00:10
czrno GTK+00:10
czrno GLib00:10
czrjust libdbus00:10
czr(and it's just an example program)00:10
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maddlerevening all!00:11
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edtis there any place to download a mediacenter deb for bora?  Mine seems to be corrupt and I really do not want to reinstall so close to chinook...00:13
elbczr: dbu_connection_set_exit_on_disconnect(dbus_connection, FALSE)00:14
infobotelb meant: czr: dbusconnection_set_exit_on_disconnect(dbus_connection, FALSE)00:14
elbdaggone it00:14
* alterego wonders why hildon/fm are different modules.00:14
elbinfobot shows my mistake00:14
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czrelb, how can I set it if I don't even get a connection to begin with?00:17
czrthe application aborts on the function which is supposed to get me a dbus connection :-)00:18
czrin the function even :-)00:18
czranyhow, I'll rewrite the text around it until I'll find an answer to that. thanks for trying :-)00:18
elbwhen you call dbus_bus_get, what are you passing it?00:18
TimRikerhas bluetooth PAN support been integrated with any of the OS releases?00:18
elbthat function is what fixed it for us00:19
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czrelb,   bus = dbus_bus_get(DBUS_BUS_SESSION, &error);00:19
elbwe use DBUS_BUS_STARTER00:19
elbif that is relevant00:19
czrah yes, but that's different.00:19
elbthat might be to be a service00:20
czrthat means that "connect to whichever bus activated this process"00:20
* TimRiker notes the topic... irc logs are also at
czrin my case it's always the session bus00:20
elbI don't know00:20
czrelb, but I don't think it's really revelent. the problem is that the application will abort when the dbus envvars are not set.00:20
trunneml_Anyone has expierens with chinook armel scratchbox?00:20
czrsetting the envvars will fix the problem obviously, but the function shouldn't really abort internally in any case.00:20
elbI agree00:21
elbwe thought itw as dumb that we had to turn *off* exiting on error00:21
czrheh. that might be a separate issue alltogether00:21
czrand probably is :-)00:21
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trunneml_My Scratchbox Chinook ARMEL Target has an empty /usr/share/pkgconfig folder00:23
trunneml_is that normal00:23
mariorz_any linkage for coding the home desktop applets in python?00:24
doc|workwhoops, wrong channel00:25
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czrtrunneml_, have you installed the SDK yet?00:26
elbczr: I'm looking at the dbus sources here, and it's no surprise it crashes00:26
czrtrunneml_, then it shouldn't be empty00:26
czrtrunneml_, ah sorry. it is :-)00:27
czrtrunneml_, /usr/lib/pkgconfig/00:27
trunneml_thanks alot00:27
trunneml_a new question what was the enviroment variable for pkg?00:28
elbczr: looks like compiling dbus with DBUS_DISABLE_ASSERT will "fix" that00:28
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elbhmmm, but it still shouldn't be aborting due to that00:29
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czrelb, that's what output when dbus_bus_get() is invoked.00:29
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elbczr: even that should not abort00:30
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trunneml_Because all are talking about dbus, I have an application that is calling an dbus service. That is starting when it was running at calling time. Is there a posibillity that it would not start.00:31
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elbczr: is there a useful backtrace in the core?00:31
czrelb, I haven't looked at the core, let me see00:31
czrthere is. wasn't expecting one :-)00:32
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czrhah. that doesn't look very promising :-)00:32
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czrline 100 is the bus = dbus_bus_get(DBUS_BUS_SESSION, &error);  one00:33
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czrtrunneml_n810_, don't do that00:34
czrbecause it's evil and unnecessary :-)00:35
czrand those two things combined are not nice :-)00:35
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trunneml_okay *sad*00:35
czrheh. I'm ok with the nick. just you changing it for no reason 100 times :-)00:35
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trunneml_sorry it was to long on the first and second and ... try00:37
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alteregoThat could possibly be more annoying :)00:39
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trunneml_I'm searching the lib that includes hildon-widgets in chinook00:41
trunneml_any ideas?00:41
alteregotrunneml_, it's renamed to hildon-100:42
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trunneml_strange I added it but I can't compile00:42
czr_Monkey, mxr?00:43
_Monkeyi guess mxr is mozilla cross reference, maintained by timeless, has a number of references including garage, sardine, and chinook00:43
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trunneml_hildon-widgets/hildon-program.h is missing00:43
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trunneml_that should be hildon-1 or not?00:44
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alteregoIt should be hildon00:44
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czrah. for pkg-config hildon-100:44
czrfor includes, hildon00:44
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alteregoWell .. That's enough coding for one day me thinks.00:48
Tiekuon an n800 how do i find out my ip address?00:48
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alteregoTieku, Connection Manager -> (MENU) Internet connection -> IP address00:49
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Tiekualterego: cheers :)00:49
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Tiekuis anyone using an n800 to access a samba share?00:49
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alteregoOkay .. Maybe _someone_ is ..00:50
Tiekuno halm00:50
trunneml_whats the root password of the n810?00:50
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alteregorootme ?00:51
_Monkeyrootme is, like, the default pw00:51
* alterego is jealous .. He wonders if he'll ever get an N81000:51
trunneml_rootme doesn't work00:52
alteregoMeh, just enable r&d mode and use sudo gainroot.00:52
Tb0n3you can't just sudo00:52
Tb0n3what alterego said00:52
Tiekuim trying to log into my n800 via secure shell.does anyone know what username and password to use?00:54
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czrelb, I think I found the issue:
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czrelb, that's called directly from dbus_bus_get.00:58
czrit will internally set the exit on disconnect, and then abort after dbus_bus_register fails in the DBUS_ASSERT_ERROR_IS_SET00:58
czrso there's nothing that can be done really, without rebuilding the library00:58
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* alterego has added gtkmozembed support to ruby-maemo :)01:08
czralterego, does it work? :-)01:09
alteregoI've also fixed a few bugs. Updated the documentation and sanitized about 25% of the source code :)01:09
alteregoYup, it works.01:09
czrah, the old "out-of-the-window"-trick ;-)01:09
alteregoI added VTE support too.01:09
alteregoWhich is quite neat. Thinking of writing "RTerm" :)01:09
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czrjust call it rurm01:10
czrmaybe I'll match it later with Pyrm01:10
czrand then we can have a death-match!01:10
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pumpkin-does anyone know what's providing entropy for /dev/random on the N800 and similar?01:12
alteregoThe only reason I want to write a terminal app is because the current osso-xterm isn't customizable enough.01:12
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alteregoI need to change the colour palette01:12
trunneml_gdbm any Idea where to find it in chinook01:12
czrpumpkin-, internal HW RNG01:12
czrpumpkin-, at least it should add to the entropy. but you can add into it yourself too, if you wish01:13
pumpkin-czr: but if I cat /dev/random it stops after a while01:13
czrpumpkin-, of course.01:13
pumpkin-and I can definitely see stuff coming in if I tap on teh screen01:13
pumpkin-and stuff like that01:13
czrpumpkin-, why are you catting /dev/random?01:13
pumpkin-I was wondering what other kinds of events went into it01:13
alteregocat /dev/czr/brain > /dev/urandom01:13
czralterego, writing to urandom doesn't work :-)01:13
alteregoDamnit ..01:13
czrand reading from czr/brain doesn't work either01:14
czryou'll get ENODEV01:14
pumpkin-what's czr/brain01:14
pumpkin-and can I write to /dev/random?01:14
czrpumpkin-, you can. as root.01:14
czrwriting can also be disabled via ioctl, but I doubt it has in the tablets01:14
elb/dev/random will start spitting data again once it has collected more entropy01:14
pumpkin-yeah, I know01:14
pumpkin-I just wanted an idea of how much entropy I was getting01:15
elbyou don't want to use it for anything for which you need large amounts of random data01:15
pumpkin-whether it was only based on "mouse" events01:15
pumpkin-or whether it used other sources too01:15
elb(if you *truly* need large amounts of random, and not perturbed pseudorandom, data, you probably need a hardware RNG)01:15
pumpkin-nah, I don't need large amounts of it, but I want to make sure there's always a fair amount, even with extremely low hardware interaction with the device by the user01:16
mariorzwhere are the  images, videos, docuemtns folders located on the file system?01:16
elbthe standard Linux entropy pool uses interface devices, network activity, and "random" latencies in various devices01:16
elb(e.g. disk seeks)01:16
alteregomariorz, /home/user/MyDocs/.*01:16
pumpkin-mmkay, and that still works with a flash disk?01:16
alteregoFor some reason they're hidden.01:16
elbno, the disk method won't work with flash disks01:16
pumpkin-yeah, I had the feeling I'd have less entropy available on an n80001:17
elbsystem entropy is relatively easy to exhaust, it is not reasonable to assume there's "always a fair amount"01:17
elbeven on a standard desktop01:17
pumpkin-but if I can write stuff into it, I guess I can throw random mic noise into it or something01:17
pumpkin-yeah, I know01:17
pumpkin-ah well, not a huge deal01:17
elbis there a reason that /dev/urandom is not appropriate?01:17
pumpkin-not particularly :)01:18
elbfor virtually any purpose, it is Random Enough01:18
pumpkin-I'm just doing some fairly critical crypto01:18
elbit is a pseudorandom number stream, but it is perturbed by actual entropy from the system RNG with some frequency01:18
czrelb, actually it might, depending on the flash :-)01:18
czrelb, it works on non-mmd flash01:18
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czrusb flash has non-uniform access times01:19
elbnon-uniform, but not unpredictable01:19
elbdisk seeks are effectively impossible to predict past a certain precision, because of mechanical interference01:20
czralthough using that for entropy is not all that good anyway01:22
czrwhich is what exactly?01:22
czrgiven enough data, the disk seeks are predictable as well01:22
czrat least at the resolution of kernel timing sources01:22
elbthe kernel has excellent timing sources on modern hardware01:23
elband it only uses the lowest-order bits01:23
elbthe point of the system entropy collection is that any *one* source is such a small percentage of the overall entropy, that minor patterns disappear01:23
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elbvirtually none of hte entropy sources are truly unpredictable at a deep enough level01:24
elbcomputers are, by their very nature, predictable01:24
elbeven the user at the keyboard & mouse becomes predictable when you consider that the sampling rate is not particularly fast to begin with01:25
doc|workwhat about those crypto boards?01:25
elbthere are various hardware RNGs which use things like atomic decay or thermal instabilities to create a RNG stream which is truly (at some level) random01:25
czrelb, I don't think I disagree with anything you say. just saying that the difference in the entropy you might get from usb flash versus a rotating disk when measuring access times is not that great01:26
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czralso, I'm not all that sure that linux uses access times anymore01:26
czra lot of the entropy sources were disabled some months ago01:27
czrsince they were low-quality01:27
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pupnik_oh, and i need an assembly routine to grab OMAP's clock ticks01:29
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killfillim trying to play some .ogg's with n800 ukmp, and it quits.01:50
killfillhave gstreamer0.10-plugins-ivorbis installed.01:50
killfillis there any way to make this play ogg's?01:50
pupniksure the oggs are there?  filesystem not full?01:53
pupnikif so, try with different oggs first01:53
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killfillcan play them with mplayer.. :P01:53
killfillhm.. letme start the thing from a terminal01:54
lardman|tvread my mind01:54
pupnikyou can also test the gstreamer plugin with gst-tools01:54
killfillgobject.GError: no element "oggdemux"01:54
pupnikhi lardman|tv did you make that gstreamer ivorbis plugin?01:54
killfillacuallt the directory has utf8 chats in it.. but look like there is no ogg codec.. :P01:55
lardman|tvI've made one, but it segfaults the dsp kernel, need to debug it but had flu/cold so not been to bothered to program01:55
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killfill thats the whole thing01:56
killfillhow do i install "oggdemux"?.. i never really understood how gst works.. :)01:56
pupniki never had a gst vorbis plugin installed - maybe post your issue to the ukmp feedback page on garage01:58
killfillannot use kagu either.. seems to be something about gsrteamer01:59
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killfill(ah.. damn keyboard)01:59
lardman|tvsame error01:59
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lardman|tvSee if it's in his bugtracker02:00
lardman|tvtremor dosn't use a demuxer does it?02:00
lardman|tvhas its own build in02:00
lardman|tvperhaps I'm remembering something else02:00
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lardman|tv_Monkey: tremor is an integer only ogg vorbis decoder02:01
_MonkeyOK, lardman|tv.02:01
_Monkeyi heard tremor was an integer only ogg vorbis decoder02:01
lardman|tvkillfill: that :)02:01
killfillah.. :)02:02
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*** timelyx changes topic to "maemo - development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets | |"02:04
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timelyxpeople should use the chinook xref more often...02:05
timelyxtrunneml_'s question is trivially answered by
killfillos2007 is bora, right?02:06
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YHYHIAMHEREYES FINALLY got my nokia working prop02:06
YHYHIAMHEREi need a firware update on the router what a donut should of tried that a while back02:07
timelyxkillfill: has the answer for "bora"02:07
killfillall righty!02:10
* killfill listening to Zoe... :)02:10
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killfillfirst time can make ukmp works02:11
killfilllooks more "usable" than kagu and canola.. (today)02:15
pupnikit's nice to see three players with strong development02:16
l7YHYHIAMHERE: what kind of router problem did you have?02:17
l7i was reading
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l7"According to Nokia customer support the N800 does not support 802.1X authentication with EAP-TTLS and PAP. [citation needed]"02:17
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l7i wonder if this is still accurate02:18
timelyxafaik it is02:18
timelyxwhy wouldn't it be?02:18
timelyxl7: the other one is bogus02:18
timelyxwhat portion of linux based devices support ogg out of the box?02:18
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czrnight lardman|gone02:20
czr-> gone as well02:20
timelyxl7: anyway, there's talk for "problems section?"02:20
timelyxi'd vote for deleting the section02:20
pupniki vote for a massive maemo users money drive for lardman :P02:25
pupnik300-500 users at 5-10 dollars a pop!02:26
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* pupnik tosses a vorpal bunney after doc|work02:27
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Tiekuhaving trouble locating insmod on the n80002:33
Tiekuhas anyone ever used insmod on the n800?02:33
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killfillooh cool.. ukmp has a kinetic thingy too!02:39
fysadoes it include mplayer?02:39
fysaor do we have working mplayer yet?02:39
killfillmplayer works fine here..02:40
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killfillerr.. where is my volume.. :P02:41
fysamy mplayer's default volume was really low for some reason :P02:42
killfilloh.. its on the buttons..02:42
Tiekuim inside x terminal how do i change to root?02:43
Tiekusu: applet reuirs root privilages02:43
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killfill"part mode active"?.. whats this..02:44
killfillah its like a playlist02:45
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killfillon playlist, cannot forward/rewing to the next/prv song.02:54
killfillwhere should i bug report this?.. :P02:54
pupnikTieku: sudo gainroot02:55
Tiekupupnik: cheers. appeared to be acting funny. i've ended up logging in through a shell with rootme02:55
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killfillsvn: Can't convert string from 'UTF-8' to native encoding:03:01
pupnikit's  interesting to see how my web traffic closely tracks how much work i put into new releases03:01
pupnikkillfill: i really hate those issues - maybe you can putz with your locale settings03:02
killfill"set your locale to something which can represent the incoming UTF-8 data"03:03
killfilli have to now wich language talks the developer(s)?...03:04
killfill(never mind)03:05
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pupnikkillfill: did you fix?03:09
killfillexport LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-803:12
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killfilli actually use LANG=es_ES... just blank LANG, and set that other var.03:13
killfillhm.. the playlist thing doesnt really convince me..03:13
killfillor its not intuitive.. or it doesnt work as it should (here)... or of course i could be too fool to understand it.. :P03:13
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killfill            elif CLICKMODE==CLICK_QUEUE:03:16
killfill                self.playQueue(0,0)03:16
killfillaha.. it pops the song when playing it....03:17
pupnikif you think UI is unintuitive give suggesstion to konttori03:18
killfill(does doesnt really here..)03:18
* Tieku managed to access a samba share! :D03:19
killfillpupnik: actually.. i think the idea is greate.. it like for "dj-ing" on a party.. you just go a pair of song ahead.. not for a full playlist.. :P03:20
pupnikoh a dj-ing app would be huge03:21
killfilljust doesnt really delete the song from the queue after playing...03:21
pupnikuse bluetooth headphones to select and monitor next song - headpone jack plugs into sound system03:22
pupnikso you can pick out and cue-up next song03:22
pupnikbeat-matching, then do your crossfade03:22
pupnikomg :)03:22
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killfillooh that would be a killer03:22
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pupnikok this ... must... be made03:23
pupnikkillfill: can you hack ukmp to add it?03:23
pupniki think ukmp has the rtsp support03:23
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oobdigital beatmixing is heresy03:23
killfillpupnik: well at least i could try.. :P03:24
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* killfill trying to motivates to make some time to finnaly do something usefull with his n800.. :P03:24
killfillhow does people write python proggies?.. directly on the n800?03:24
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pupnikthe only python program i hacked on - i did it through ssh right on the 77003:25
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killfillok sudently i have 135 proceses of ukmp...03:38
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killfilloh.. the thing actually runs on a PC..:)03:55
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* doc|home just got his n800 :)04:14
rghoshfrom which store?04:15
doc| pricematched against directcanada.com04:15
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K`zanGizmo installs on 2007 and fbreader seems to be working right now...04:21
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rghoshi'd like to see an n800 video wall04:21
rghoshpointless but fun04:22
K`zanLOL, that IS the point, if someone will send me 500 of them, I'll give it a go :-).04:22
rghoshheh, indeed.  or failing that do it at as a collaborative effort at a conference or whatever04:23
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K`zanWould be interesting, but taking it out of the case is a little scary at this point considering I have had it less than a week :).04:24
doc|homewell shit, a linux wireless setup that "just works" (tm). Never thought I'd see the day :)04:27
K`zanAmazing, isn't it :-).04:27
K`zanI felt the same way about the sound stuff at one point...04:27
doc|homeme too, then they created alsa :o04:28
doc|homehmmm, sooner they get os2008 the better, rendering's not the fastest on scrolling04:29
K`zanStill have problems, but basic sound works.  WOuld like my USB headset to be a bit easier to get going and the BT headset, but I'm happy it works as well as it does :-).04:30
pupnikdoc|home: give the touchscreen a good workout in the first few days - test with sketching apps04:31
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doc|homewhy's that? bad history?04:32
pupniki couldn't say how many have had problems percentage-wise.  but a handful of people have at least.04:32
doc|homeI'm liking touch scrolling on the page, much better performance than using the scroll bar04:32
pupnikyeah that's really convenient04:32
* doc|home ponders heading down to local cafe to show up all those powerbook/macbook pro people ;)04:33
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* doc|home "has the intertubes on teeny shiny much cheaper package"04:33
K`zanHaving an easily portable wifi now, I notice there seem to be a lot of open WAPs named "linksys"...04:34
doc|homeK`zan: hehe, yeah, here too04:34
K`zanAmount of wifi nodes is rather amazing, just don't know what they story really is on using open WAPs...  After they arrested that kid for using the libraries after hours, I'm a bit leery...04:35
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doc|homethey have to prove it was you04:36
K`zanGizmo / SIP is really neat on the n800, just talked with a friend I have know for 10 years or so down in .au for about a half hour :-).  Quality was great...04:36
doc|homeekiga working?04:37
K`zanTrue, probably as easy as finding out who has the WAPs to ask permission from :).04:37
doc|homehehehe, exactly04:37
K`zanSomething about easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission...04:37
doc|homedoes gizmo support pure sip with non-gizmo accounts?04:37
K`zanHaven't tried that - I set it up a SIP contact somehow in 2008 and it didn't do squat.04:37
K`zanI don't think the leaked 2008 works perfectly on the n800 at this point, sure doesn't on mine.04:38
doc|homeI'm removing skype and rhapsody. I'll never use them04:38
K`zanNumber of small problems.  Nothingreally major.04:38
doc|homeer, if I can04:39
K`zanGood luck, I couldn't delete apps out of the panel under 2008.  All I could do is delete folders and moving an app took MANY attempts if it worked at all.04:39
doc|homeno updates available, that's somewhat surprising04:39
doc|homeseems you're right, lame04:39
K`zanWell, 2008 hasn't been released yet, so things like that are not real surprising.04:39
K`zanI heard that the n810 is an n800 with a keyboard and GPS, but I don't know for sure.04:40
doc|homeoh, wait, yeah, I'm on 200704:40
doc|homesounds like it, nicer hardware too. more compact04:40
doc|homebut the n800 is an even better package than I was expecting04:40
K`zanI went back to 2007 last night and a number of things seem to work OK in 2007 that didn't in 2008.04:41
K`zanI got a rather abysmal camera in the n800, I'd personally rather be able to choose my GPS and keyboard...04:41
doc|homeheh, yeah04:41
K`zanI got a good GPS :), just not BT :-(.04:41
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K`zanTrying to find that "camera" app....04:47
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doc|homewhere do you get your lock code?04:49
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K`zanDefault IIRC is 12345, can change it someplace in control panel.04:50
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K`zanFound it...04:51
doc|homesweet, thanks, that did it04:51
doc|homewhere is it?04:51
rghoshanyone know how to differentiate between os2007 and os2008 reliably in python runtime?04:53
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rghoshwe're afraid platform.uname() may be too specific04:54
rghoshwe used this up to now to distinguish desktop and tablet at runtime04:54
K`zanHow does one remove apps from the menu / panel in 2007?!?04:54
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doc|homeK`zan: I just created a new folder called unused and dragged them into new folder04:55
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pupnikn800 gives you more storage than n810.  So it's really the better deal right now.05:01
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doc|homegrrrr, mail client is annoying me05:20
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doc|homehas been really slow the last few days?05:33
pupniknew version of claws mail out doc|home05:35
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doc|homeinstalling it now :)05:36
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niteOwlanyone here do and dev/hacking on the pimlico apps?05:48
niteOwlerr s/and/any/05:48
mariorzis there a way to remove the contacts icon from the menu?05:49
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pupnikhi niteOwl not me but that's definitly important stufff06:03
* pupnik bounces across room06:04
pupnikbadger badger mushhrrooommmmm
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niteOwlpupnik: I'm poking around it a bit, trying to get my feet under me - first step building dates.06:11
niteOwlpupnik: nice looking mushroom06:12
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doc|mobilewhere do i get libsdl-ttf and libreadline?06:30
_Monkeyrepositories is  and a searchable index at
pupniksearch gronmayer, then add the repository to your application manager06:32
pupnikor add the line manually to /etc/apt/sources.list06:32
pupnik(the debian way)06:32
doc|mobilex-chat on n800 ftw :)06:38
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ToddBrandtDoes anybody in here know what the hildon development channel is?06:38
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pupnikToddBrandt: this is the only maemo/hildon channel I know06:44
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pupnikRe: N810 first impressions: "I took it for a drive on the bike. Wow. What a difference from the 800. No issues seeing the screen at all. "06:53
niteOwlpimlico dates - built :-), dbus started, but it complains that it is unable to determine the address of the message bus. dbus-monitor shows sure enough it is using a null destination - ideas on this are welcome...meanwhile I will keep at it.06:54
doc|mobilepupnik: 'the police however were much less impressed'06:57
K`zandoc|home: Found the answer - you have to delete them from the application manager.07:03
doc|homehmmm, ok, thanks07:04
K`zanTapped on the greyed out delete button out of frustration and it told me that :-).07:04
doc|homeK`zan: gotten sip working at all? I can't see ekiga07:04
K`zandoc|home: I'm using gismo, that worked perfectly for the one call I made :-).07:05
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doc|homehmmm, I can't find a repo for that07:05
K`zanPick install and scroll down for n800 / n810 / n770 versions.07:07
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doc|mobilesweet, thanks07:10
K`zanGlad to help, enjoy!07:11
doc|mobileyou have to register with them, even if you use 3rd party sip servers07:12
K`zanDunno, not an issue here :).07:13
pupnik_  scrolling and resizing widgets looks dog-slow on this.  Not that this is really important, but it doesn't give viewers the idea that the device has good performance.  Suggest Nokia invest some programmer-hours into this, and OpenGL based window system.07:15
pupnik_i need to find a sip gateway provider for cheap/free07:15
K`zanDoes such a thing exist?07:15
doc|mobilepupnik_, ekiga.org07:15
K`zanCheap, well, free, dunno...07:16
doc|mobilefree :)07:16
pupnik_i think i need to contact my isp/telco about this and threaten a s...07:16
pupnik_dialing to landlines free?07:16
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K`zanGotta subscribe there too...07:17
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doc|mobilepupnik_, ah... you didn't day *that*07:17
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pupnik_there was a service that did 1-minute free calls.  I'd like to uh... make a lot of calls to Iowa ;)07:18
pupnik_ty for the link tho07:19
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doc|homefound one, rtcomm07:40
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doc|homeintegrates with os2007, not sure how stable it is though07:40
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pupnik_i haven't tried this stuff yet07:45
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L0cutus[06:40] <doc|home> integrates with os2007, not sure how stable it is though08:01
L0cutusit's ok for me08:02
L0cutusthe real problem is the lack of support to bluetooth headset08:02
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javamaniacsomeone has installed os2008 in a n800?08:04
javamaniacit enters in a reboot loop, and i'm no sure what i must do08:05
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oil_hi, do you know what is the root password for openssh on n810?08:09
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doc|homeoil_: rootme?08:11
_Monkeyrootme is the default pw?08:11
oil_rootme nor maemo works08:11
oil_also username: maemo, passowrd: maemo does not work08:12
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doc|homehow log does it take the n800 to charge?08:22
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sxpertdoc|home, 4 to 5 hours or so08:25
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doc|homesxpert: thanks08:27
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pupnik_5 days, i think08:31
K`zanMy cell phone crank emergency charger will charge the n800 :).08:32
K`zanThat could be a LONG job :-).08:32
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pupnik_i'm lookin at portable solar charger, hopefully i'll have my bike fixed up and n810 for a road trip to strasbourg on the tea party day, dec 16 - weather accomodating08:40
pupnik_brand new n810 + bike + icy roads -- uhh nope.08:41
K`zanWise :-)!08:41
K`zanDiscretion is the better part of not having to replace everything :).08:42
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pupnik_is the N810 d-pad 8-way?08:45
K`zanI think I need a game to test that premise on :-).08:48
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corevettedoes the latest canola still support the 770?08:51
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K`zanNight all (here :-).09:10
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sven-tekGood morning10:02
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sven-tekiam right about to downgrade my n800 from os2008 to os200710:04
* pupnik_ puts on coffee and morning exercise tape10:04
pupnik_think i'm gonna use the 770 for os2006 and os2007 testing and 810 for os200810:05
mariorzdoes sshfs need like a sshfs server?10:05
_Monkeysshfs is, like, enough for mgedmin_'s needs10:06
pupnik_darn, if anyone finds a wiki or something to teach monkey pls do10:06
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mariorzor is that done trough ssh? i.e. if i install ssh on my mac should i be able to connect to the device10:06
mariorzwith openssh on it10:06
mariorzor am i missing s sshfs server?10:06
mariorzinstall sshfs* on my mac10:07
mariorzi see afuseport thing on the wiki10:07
mariorznot sure if thts what i want10:08
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pupnik_i think you need fuse to bind the filesystem in userspace10:09
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mariorzthat means i have to istall fuse on the device?10:10
sven-tekmariorz, do you want to mount at host or at n80010:12
mariorzhmm good quesiton10:12
mariorzi imagine host add10:12
mariorzerr host at10:12
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mariorzand its n770 but with os200710:12
sven-teki use to mount folders from my n800 on the host side. therefore i installed sshfs on the ubuntu pc10:13
sven-tekthe new browser in os2008 annoyes me10:13
mariorzok right so you mount the file system on the device from your desktop? thats what i want10:13
mariorzwhat do you need to install on the device for that just upenssh?10:13
sven-tekyou only need ssh server on the device and fuse+sshfs on the host10:14
mariorzoks, seems to be not working but maybe an issue with macfuse then10:14
mariorzjust installed that as well10:14
sven-tekubuntu can run on mac hardware very well :-P10:15
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mariorzhaha actually this will be running ubuntu as long as i gets me hands on a new laptop that can run jaguar :P10:15
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pupnik_sidux is the penguin that ate new york10:16
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mariorzso the desktop applets can only be written in c?10:24
doc|homewhat rez movies will the media player play? I'm getting resolution not supporte10:26
_Monkeyi heard mplayer was a high-performance video player for the tablet OS:
_Monkeyi guess 770-encode is now known at tablet-encode and can be found at
pupnik_doc|home: transcode to <=400 wide and <=240 high, use a good codec - then play with mplayer10:27
doc|homewow, that's pretty crap :) thanks10:28
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pupnik_high definition video is too cpu hungry - remember divx video used to take around a 500mhz pentium to play smoothly10:29
pupnik_now some of it can be offloaded onto gpu, but still10:29
doc|homeyeah :/10:30
sven-tekI use the 770 mediaConverter for converting videos for my n80010:30
sven-tekpretty java gui, drag and drop10:30
sven-tekneeds mplayer10:31
sven-tekof ffmpeg i dont recall10:31
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mariorzdoes anyone know if this is for os2007?
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mariorzor is the plugin rewrite for os2008?10:44
L0cutusunable to install/use mediaserv :(10:44
astro76mariorz, the article is from march10:45
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mariorzastro76: i saw that but it also says that that version of hildon-desktop is not availabe for n800!10:46
mariorzerr on the next one sidenotes10:46
bedboigtk_separator_tool_item_set_draw seems to have no effect on hildon10:47
bedboiis it a feature?10:47
astro76mariorz, could be, it's an upstream gnome project10:47
mariorzhas anyone written python desktop applets for os2007?10:47
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khertan<mariorz> has anyone written python desktop applets for os2007?10:53
khertannot possible yet10:53
khertansniff :(10:53
khertanbinding isn't finished !10:53
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mariorzi see10:53
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mariorz:( indeed10:54
khertanmariorz: and binding isn't finished on chinook too ...L10:54
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sciboyI'd kill for some binaries of that, it would allow me to use my todo list offline.10:54
mariorzkhertan: i just saw some screencast of it working on chinook i think10:55
mariorznot sude about the code names but it was working on hildon10:56
mariorzhte ones i posted up10:56
Spakmanhas anyone written Ruby desktop applets yet?10:56
mariorzi think only c for the desktop applets in os200710:57
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doc|homepupnik_: tablet-encode did it perfectly, thanks :)10:58
doc|homepupnik_: I'll be watching money as debt on my way to work in the morning :)10:59
mariorzwatch sicp!10:59
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doc|homeer, sicp?11:00
doc|homefunky, I may just do that the day after :) thanks11:01
mariorzlol yeah im gonna take them to class and ignore real life teachers will watching that11:02
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pupnik_hahaha i have the purple book mariorz11:03
mariorzcool im gonna print it tommorro :D11:04
pupnik_i had the misfortune of teaching myself to program in BASIC and learning Pascal before taking that course at university11:04
pupnik_so i was kind of ruined11:04
pupnik_brain... must..rearrange..assumptions11:05
mariorzi tought myself php so i guess were kind of on the same boar :S11:05
mariorzim recovering11:05
pupnik_boar works too11:05
timelyxplanet.maemo is still borked?11:08
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JaffaMorning, all11:11
JaffaL0cutus: need a hand with mediaserv?11:11
Spakmanthanks mariorz11:11
Spakmanwhat about 0S2008? Other languages?11:11
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mariorzSpakman: no idea, sorry11:12
tsavolasicp rules11:12
tsavolaoh they have videos?11:13
mariorzSpakman: apparantly you cna use python for the applets i os200811:13
mariorztsavola: yeah torrents are freaking fast11:14
L0cutusJaffa: thanks, but the problem is with perl rather than with mediaserv unfortunately...11:15
Spakmanta mariorz11:15
timelyxJaffa: have you fixed your google maps address?11:16
L0cutusseems some deps are not met11:16
tsavolamariorz: i already read the book, is the movie worth watching? :)11:16
tsavolaalthough i did see a finnish version of the play11:16
mariorztheyre videos from calss lectures at hp or someplace11:18
X-Fadetimelyx: Planet has been refreshed..11:25
khertan<mariorz> khertan: i just saw some screencast of it working on chinook i think11:27
khertanmariorz: it s on chinook11:27
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khertanmariorz: but with a dev version of the binding11:28
khertanand this version of binding seems to be not available anywhere11:28
khertanlucasr from is the developper of this binding11:28
mariorzi see11:29
rothielHi guys :)11:29
mariorzthen again im ona 770 so had already given up on the dessktop applet, ill just  write an app11:29
khertanbut i m really interested by doing my own home applet in python :)11:30
mariorzthat would rock indeed11:30
khertanhi rothiel11:31
mariorzkhertan: youre working on that?11:31
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timelessczr: ping11:52
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timelesswhat did you want me to poke?11:52
czrpong timeless11:52
timelessoh, i know11:52
* timeless goes hunting11:52
timelessbtw, is it not ok to just consider flash sizes?11:52
timelessthat's public :)11:52
czrtimeless, well. kind of, and yes, I know the problem :-)11:53
czrif you're too scared to throw me a ballbark figure for the N810, I'll just wait what will happen when the proper review finishes ;-)11:53
czrthat way your hands stay clean ;-)11:53
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:55
czrhey AD-N77011:55
timelessoh, it's no problem11:55
timelessi have qa :)11:55
timelessthey'll get me a table :)11:55
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timelessanyway, you also complained about something else11:59
* timeless goes to find it11:59
* timeless asks bugs.maemo :)11:59
czrtimeless, yup. the tech specs page11:59
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timelessthis is cool12:00
czrand I only filed a bug because you were too lazy to send yourself an email! :-)12:00
timelesspeople actually know how to use that product12:00
timelessthere are 2 bugs there touched in the past 1 day :)12:00
timelessi.e., not just yours :)12:00
czrlet me check the bug num.12:00
timelessoh, i found yours12:01
czrhmm. what happened to it?12:01
timelessbut try query:product=product,changedin=1d12:01
timelessit's unco12:01
timeless"my bugs" won't find uncos12:01
czrI always file them uncorfimed first12:01
czrshould I change?12:01
czris there something wrong with me?12:01
* czr goes soul searching12:01
timelessno, but you should save a query that includes unco ;)12:01
czrI use 'active' for that :-)12:02
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czrnot 'my bugs'12:02
* timeless tries to remember who to bug12:02
czralthough I didn't add that to active. it was too trivial12:02
timelessok, bug forwarded12:03
timelessi wonder if the people i sent it to use bugs.maemo12:03
timelessif they do, i could cc them :)12:03
* czr shrugs12:04
timelessnope, they don't :(12:04
czrI should get a t-shirt that reads "yes, I'm the guy who bugs you all the time on bugs.maemo". Then I could wear that whenever I'm over at ruoholahti.12:04
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czralthough I have the distinct feeling that people eye me with an evil eye as it is12:04
timelessok, i'm off to haunt some people12:06
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czrelb, the same bug actually affects any program that uses LibOSSO too :-)12:07
czrelb, since libosso will try to open a connection to the session bus as soon as osso_initialize is used.12:08
czrso, all libosso programs will core.12:08
pupnik_i like the t-shirt "I read your email"12:13
czrI had the bumper sticker on my old laptop12:13
czroddly enough, only one course participant ever chuckled because of it12:14
czrmaybe the rest assumed that I really read their email /me shugs12:14
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pupnik_I wore a 'hacking for jesus' t-shirt to rehearsals of Handel's messiah and got some strange questions about it12:14
czrhmm. I caused the bash of sbox to segfault12:17
czror rather, /scratchbox/login12:17
timelessbeen there done that12:17
czrin X86?12:17
timelessit wasn't my sbox :)12:17
* czr itches to write "If your Scratchbox will break at this point, don't worry, it's quite normal."12:18
timelesss/will break/breaks/ :(12:18
czrtrue :-)12:18
timeless/bin/true crashed, it's a symlink to scrathbox :)12:19
timelessbut seriously, i don't remember what i did to crash it12:19
czrI used dbus-send.12:19
* timeless goes back to haunting12:20
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_Monkeyhello, sujan12:43
sujando you know, in nokia N800 how can I give write permission to a read only file12:44
lardmanchmod +w filename12:44
lardmanyou might be able to click and hold the stylus and get properties?12:44
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mariorzwoot got sshfs working12:45
lardmando the first one in a terminal, try the second in filemanager12:45
sujanin file manager where is /usr/bin12:47
lardmanyou can't access it from filemanager12:47
lardmanwhy do you want to write to a file in /usr/bin?12:47
sujanno, just a simple text file12:48
sujancontaining a integer value...12:48
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lardmanand it's in /usr/bin?12:49
czrsujan, /usr/bin is not meant to store data. man hier please.12:51
czrsujan, if you want to store data so that the file manager can access it, the correct place will be /home/user/MyDocs (or just ~/MyDocs if using the shell)12:52
zshi, on my 770 i can put only 50 MB data on memory card, is it normal? (i have 1gb kingston card)12:53
lardmanwith that said, if it's already there, you need to use the terminal to change the properties (but presumably you are already using vi to edit it)12:53
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sujancan i write any file in /home/user/MyDocs?12:55
lardmanas long as the permissions are correct12:59
bedboiis there any gpe-sudoku user there?13:00
bedboii would need some hint on which icon to use for the "guess" mode13:00
sujanactually the problem is i have installed a application which executable is in /usr/bin and this executable will read a integer value from file13:01
lardmanok, you can put the file anywhere13:04
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lardmanbut not usually in /usr/bin13:04
Jaffasujan: is it just reading the value? Should the user be able to change it?13:05
JaffaIf the answer to both is "no", it should probably go in /usr/share/<app>/13:05
_MonkeyHmm.  No matches for that, Jaffa.13:05
sujanyes,user will change it13:05
Jaffa_Monkey: shut up13:05
_MonkeyJaffa: i'm not following you...13:05
lardmansujan: what does the app do with the number?13:06
lardmanpersonally I'd create this text file in ~/13:06
lardmanthen you can quickly open the terminal and edit it with vi without needing to cd anywhere13:07
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sujanread the number and draw an image with that scaling factor13:09
lardmanas I said, stick the text file in you home directory ~/ ( = /home/user/)13:12
* Jaffa agrees, either called .app or in a .app directory in /home/user13:14
bedboioh my god, read this:
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lardmanhmm, good to see a Firefox 3 beta is out and MAndriva have yet to make Firefox 2 available for me to install13:23
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_Monkeyhmmm... ukmp is a Media Player, available for download at
timelesswho works on ukmp?14:07
X-Fadetimeless: konttori.14:07
_Monkeykonttori are you still working on UKMP?14:07
X-Fadetimeless: Works for Nokia too.14:07
timeless!seen konttori14:08
timeless_monkey seen konttori14:08
_Monkeykonttori was last seen on #maemo 1 days, 13 hours, 39 minutes and 3 seconds ago, saying: damn, is it true that os2008 version of python 2.5 doesn't have glade? [Mon Nov 19 22:29:15 2007]14:08
timelessit doesn't install for me on 2008...14:08
_Monkeyhmmm... repositories is  and a searchable index at
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timelessany idea where i can get libgdbm3?14:13
X-Fadesdk repository14:15
_Monkeysomebody said sdk repository was not meant for upgrading14:15
X-FadeIt should be uploaded to extras..14:15
X-Fademaemo-mapper depends on it too.14:15
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zscan I upgrade my 770 to the latest OS 2006 under linux?14:17
zsok i will try it now, thanks14:21
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Andy80hi all14:39
JaffaCan we have our daily "I want my N810" moan yet?14:49
dpb_I want my N810~14:51
dpb_Happy now?14:51
JaffaMuch. Don't need a new toy now :)14:53
lardmanI still do though!14:54
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Takyou're not missing anything - FF3b1 went nuts on me yesterday and ate all my ram14:55
* lardman feels better now14:55
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lardmanCome on _Monkey!14:55
TakFF3b1 is Firefox3 beta114:56
lardmanah, well I've still got v1.x14:57
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Takzs: why not 2007he?14:57
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zsTak: i will try it later, now i have a problem with my 770, i can transfer only 50MB, if more transfer slown down to 0 kbps15:09
Takhow are you transferring?15:10
zsvia usb cable15:11
Takhmm - does it eventually start up again?15:13
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zsi have tried with 2 memory cards and problem is the same15:13
zsno it doesn't, if i unplug device there is no file on memory card15:14
Takheh - are you unmounting it before you're unplugging it?15:14
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Takthen it won't show up for sure15:15
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zswhat i am doing is, i copy some files, if i put less than 50 MB on memory files i can use them, but if i put more data than 50 MB there are only few files15:18
zsi can only put 50 MB on my 1GB card15:18
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lardmantry fsck'ing the card15:25
zsi have got this same problem with other card15:26
Takhmm - I used to have problems with copies failing if I tried to dump data to the card too fast over usb, but those wouldn't hang, they'd just fail15:27
lardmanzs: what machine is this?15:30
lardmanI wonder if it suffers from the same problem the n800 did - and that the last FIASCO image was released for?15:31
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bedboiguys i have problems installing python2.5-runtime on os200815:37
bedboiis it a known issue?15:37
Taklardman: the sd card thing, or the wifi driver thing?15:37
X-Fadebedboi: Add the sdk repository..15:39
_Monkeyi guess sdk is not complete yet, anyway15:39
bedboistupid monkey15:39
bedboiX-Fade: you mean: deb chinook free non-free15:42
bedboiX-Fade: thanks, it's working15:43
lardmanTak: SD card thing15:43
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* alterego yawns15:45
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alteregoIt's being one of those loooong days15:45
czralterego, hey ruby-fella15:49
* czr prepares the windows for alterego15:49
alteregoUnfortunately I have to complete this work.15:50
alteregoOtherwise I don't get any money :P15:50
czralterego, me too!15:51
czralthough I might not get any money anyway, but who cares..15:51
alteregoThat sucks.15:51
GNUtoni'm tring to create a package for chinook15:51
bedboiGNUton: good for you15:52
GNUtonbut i need flex and libglu1-mesa-dev packages...15:52
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trulsmesa on n810? ouch15:53
GNUtontruls: i'm new.. and i don't have a tablet yet.. so i don't know the hardware yet!15:54
GNUtonyet yet! :/15:54
alteregoyup yup15:54
trulsthere is no usable 3d hardware15:54
alteregoI think it's almost time for me to take a break.15:54
czralterego, me too. I'm thinking food actually15:55
alteregoYeah, might finish that spag bol from last night.15:56
GNUtontruls: thank you!15:56
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trulsGNUton: anytime16:01
L0cutusanyone is using mediaserv + videocenter ?16:02
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L0cutusi need to know how to add mi server to videocenter16:02
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GNUtontruls: :)16:11
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JaffaL0cutus: 'lo16:12
L0cutusgood to know :)16:13
elbczr: hmmm, that's unfortunate16:13
JaffaL0cutus: if nothing else, you can tap & hold on the RSS icon in the folder view in mediaserv, select "Copy link location" and paste that into mediaserv. See the demo video on which does exactly that16:13
czrelb, yup16:13
czrelb, esp since the error missage is somewhat misleading16:13
L0cutusha, ok, thanks, i try :)16:13
JaffaL0cutus: alternatively, you *should* just be able to tap on the video center icon alongside the RSS one and it'll do it all automagically.16:14
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* czr -> food16:15
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L0cutusi've try the second one16:17
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L0cutusvideocenter is now open and it is adding the source16:17
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bedboiis there a way let maemo framework aware of USB network connection?16:19
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bedboithe problem is that when you set up a USB network connection i just can use internet from the commandline16:20
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L0cutusJaffa: videocenter rss are buggy :)16:40
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_berto_dudes, vagalume 0.3 is out ->
JaffaL0cutus: define "buggy" (and check the README for known problems)16:54
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X-Fade_berto_: Now with icon too ;)16:55
_berto_yes, all the UI stuff was done in these last two days16:56
_berto_so it'll probably change16:56
_berto_but at least we have something16:56
X-FadeYeah, nice to see album art too.16:56
X-FadeAnd easy access to love and ban.16:56
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Andy80_berto_: I'll test it in few minutes!!! :)17:00
_berto_thanks! :)17:00
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_berto_if someone tests it in the 770 I'd appreciate feedback17:00
_berto_(it should work too but I haven't tested it)17:01
Andy80I've N770 but I use 2007 HE :\17:01
* alterego yawns17:01
_berto_so you use the bora version, don't you?17:01
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Andy80yes, I use the same N800 version17:02
solmumaha_berto_: i can test with 2006 like always17:02
Andy80p.s: congratulation for the improvements :) I'm looking at the screenshots!17:02
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solmumahalooks nice btw17:02
_berto_let's hope it doesn't break17:03
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_berto_I changed several things in the gstreamer part, but it seems stable17:04
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L0cutusJaffa: videocenter show only 13 video out of about 50 files17:05
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L0cutusand show also some files that are on subdirs not only on the root dir17:06
L0cutus(dunno if this is correct)17:07
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solmumaha_berto_: no images on buttons17:11
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_berto_solmumaha: no ??17:11
solmumahait works normally17:12
solmumahai don't see images17:12
_berto_no images? strange, can you run it from an xterm ?17:12
_berto_I'm loading them with gdkpixbufloader, maybe that version doesn't support png files ... :?17:13
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solmumahaah, prolly a theme thing17:13
_berto_I don't think so, they're not stock buttons, I'm loading the images from files included in the package17:14
_matthias_are there any news out there regarding the n810 availability in europe?17:16
_matthias_damn !17:17
_matthias_will call tomorrow17:17
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Andy80_berto_: I just added the repository to catalog, so it will be easier for me to update17:17
* _matthias_ would not want fresh and crips devices lying around in some warehouse and freezing17:17
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_berto_Andy80: there's a .install file in my page and in :)17:19
Andy80_berto_: just installed on os2007 HE. I can see buttons images, but it loose my settings... nothing important eh :P17:20
_berto_wtf, settings are stored in the same file, I haven't changed that at all17:20
X-Fade_berto_: Settings don't survive a backup and restore..17:21
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X-Fade_berto_: I think you need to give the system a notice to also backup your settings..17:21
_berto_ah, so you upgraded from 2006 to 2007HE17:21
Andy80_berto_: I can assure you :) it loose them :)17:22
Andy80anyway it works fine! :)17:22
joshinDoes anyone know of a full screen clock maemo application?  I want to be able to use my 770 (running 2006 or hacker edition) as a clock rado.17:22
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_berto_yes, seems a theme thing, strange...17:23
alteregojoshin, I don't know of one but it'd be easy to write one :)17:23
Andy80_berto_: another very little bug: when you let mark a song as "loved" or "hated" you should disable the relative button until the next song.... I think...17:23
_berto_Andy80: yes, and the same with the download button17:23
_berto_actually you cannot ban a song twice because a ban implies a skip17:24
_berto_but you could love it and then ban it, in that case the love setting would have no effect17:24
_berto_but yeah, you're reight17:24
X-Fade_berto_: Info about backup:
_berto_X-Fade: thanks17:25
Andy80_berto_: the download button is always disabled here... it's a my problem or a vagalume problem? maybe I've not the permission to download the song?17:25
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_berto_Andy80: it only works with free tracks17:25
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_berto_most of the tracks cannot be downloaded, but I put a couple of free tracks in my blog entry17:26
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Andy80ok :)17:26
X-FadeAndy80: Otherwise it would be illegal ;)17:26
_berto_X-Fade: I'd like to know about that, really17:27
_berto_is it really illegal to save a stream that you're listening to?17:27
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derfEverything is illegal.17:27
X-Fade_berto_: Rights are payed by for streaming.17:27
zoranbreathing also17:27
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_berto_X-Fade: that's what I supposed, yeah17:27
X-Fade_berto_: If people can download, you have to pay download fee.17:28
_berto_well, I have to work a bit now, see you later17:28
X-Fade_berto_: And that requires contracts with all labels..17:28
derfI've heard arguments advanced that copying things from one place in RAM to another is illegal.17:28
Andy80_berto_: I've an idea about that... I'll tell you later :)17:28
_berto_beware, walls have ears :)17:29
joshinalterego: Yeah, but I figured I'd ask here first.17:30
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_berto_Andy80: I thought about it too, but I cannot write private messages, I'll have to register my nick17:30
_berto_well, I'm busy now, really, see you later17:30
Andy80ok, the important you received the idea :)17:30
Andy80ok, see ya ;)17:30
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penguinbaitcan anyone tell me the purpose of docpurge?  how stupid17:33
lardmanreduce size of .debs?17:33
penguinbaitif you delete the docs before making the deb, then you dont need docpurge?17:33
penguinbaitreal hackers dont read docs17:34
penguinbaitthey read all the docs17:34
lardmanif you delete them before hand then dpkg-buildpackage chokes17:34
alteregoSure, but there generally aren't many docs to read O_O17:35
lardmanSurely docs are just there for padding17:35
lardmanto make your .deb look bigger and therefore like it's more important?17:35
penguinbaitcups sits in /usr/share/docs17:35
penguinbaitif I do not remove docpurge, it eats cups17:36
lardmanwhat the cups binaries sit in /usr/share/docs?17:36
penguinbaitthe website17:36
_Monkeyi think the website is back again17:36
lardmanah right17:36
penguinbaitits crap I tell you17:37
penguinbaitif you could only hear my bad scottish accent17:37
lardmanshouldn't those files in under share anyway rather than docs17:37
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zorandocs have some meaning for packet manager17:38
penguinbaitusr/share/docs/cups is default, I could probably change it17:38
penguinbaitI had it in /usr/local but had some odd problems17:39
zorannokia or desktop?17:39
Jaffajoshin: there's mClock - but I've not tried it (just seen screenshots)17:39
joshinJaffa: Thanks, just found it.17:39
penguinbaitfinally mplayer for 200817:40
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penguinbaitzoran, what?17:40
zoranpenguinbait, what device makes you a prob with /usr/local dir ?17:40
zoranit is normal place to put installed apps17:40
penguinbaitwhen I compiled cups, and had its home in /usr/local on Nokia tablet, it had trouble finding all its parts17:41
lardmanit's not in $PATH on the Nokia machines though17:41
penguinbaitIt is if you install KDE :)17:41
pygianyone actually installed kde on N800 ? :P17:41
penguinbaitI did17:42
lardmanlol, overkill methinks17:42
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pygifunny :D17:42
pygiwell, we'll see what evil I'll do when n810 comes :)17:42
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trulsanyone know a os2007 program using both python and compiled C? wouldn't mind an example to look at17:42
penguinbaitCant wait to get n810 in hand17:42
pygipenguinbait: I never had a chance to play with earlier versions, so imagine me :)17:42
penguinbait2008OS version is running good, with KDE PIM and Koffice17:43
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penguinbaitCan wait to run on n810 with built in keyboard17:43
pygiKoffice? Interesting xd17:43
zoranis it worth having kde for jsut that?17:43
penguinbaitI use Konqueror all the time, I can browse remote samba or use fish to browse linux systems17:44
lardmanhmm, just watched Canola video, it does look very nice, I wonder if it's all pre-cached?17:44
pygiwell, I also have to play with Mamona ... Enlightment DE :)17:45
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lardmanI'm going to try Mamona tonight to build an image17:45
pyginice, poke with experiences :)17:46
lardmanmine will be bad as I'm trying to use OABI and old GCC :)17:46
pygialso gotta port a CLI IM client based on telepathy :D17:46
pygithat'll be funny :p17:47
lardmanwhy CLI?17:47
pygiwhy not? :)17:47
lardmanis that the name?17:47
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pyginop, name is FamaIM17:47
pygilardman: http://fama-im.org17:47
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lardmanoh, Nokia support telepathy don't they, I've no idea what it does or what they use it for though17:48
pygicommunication :)17:48
penguinbaitif they supported telepathy, they would not have added the keyboard on the n81017:48
lardmanall over my head, no idea what it does17:48
pygipenguinbait: it's still not in a usable-state for everyone ... it doesnt support everyone's brain waves, so they included it as a backup17:49
pygilardman, just read :)17:49
zoranpygi, manual looks fine enough17:50
penguinbaitmany humans dont contain the hardware, or useable software :(17:50
pygizoran: :)17:50
zoranpygi, ncurses and just like irssi17:50
pygizoran: not as mature as irssi, but ... :)17:51
lardmanyet another IM program17:51
pygilardman, not true17:51
lardmanwhy not?17:51
pygiworld's first and only CLI IM app based on telepathy :)17:51
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zoranI thought only win users like im  :)17:53
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pygihave any other way of communication except mail? :P17:54
Robot101lardman: telepathy is the cure to "yet another IM program" syndrome17:54
Robot101lardman: people can write different UIs and backends and they can all talk to each other17:54
lardmanRobot101: well that's an admirable idea17:55
Robot101it's not an idea, it's a reality17:55
pygizoran: fine, remove irc as well :)17:55
lardmanconcept then17:55
Robot101the UIs on the N800 can do IRC, SIP, MSN, AIM, Yahoo, whatever, when you install the appropriate backends17:55
_Monkeyque tal, lopz17:55
Robot101we're gonna put some packages out for OS200817:55
Robot101link-local messaging too, see people on your LAN..17:56
lardmanah, so the inbuilt Jabber functionality could be extended to do MSN with the right backend>17:56
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lardmanLink-local like Bonjour/iChat?17:56
Robot101lardman: yes, the inbuilt functionality is based on Telepathy, so you can put in any telepathy protocol backend if you write a little configuration UI17:56
lardmanThat sounds quite good then17:56
pygihaze would probably work fine for a generic support of all that protocols :)17:57
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Robot101well, salut is better than libpurple's bonjour impl17:57
sKaBoyRobot101, do you know if it's possible to write that UI? I've tried last w-end but i've not found headers or source of osso-accounts.. i've sent a mail to maemo-dev but no reply yet :/17:57
Robot101sKaBoy: there are some older headers in repo17:58
pygiRobot101: that's true17:58
Robot101sKaBoy: but they should be in chinook, something is screwed up17:58
Robot101I hope more binary stuff to put on top of chinook will release when OS2008 is publically released17:58
sKaBoyRobot101, i've not found them on chinook.. i'm waiting for the official image to see.. let's hope :)17:59
penguinbaitanyone else think ITT's new front page is a memory sucking waste of code?17:59
penguinbaitIf I can't go there on my tablet, its not much use to me anymore18:00
Robot101sKaBoy: what were you working on?18:00
lardmanbut I use firefox on the pc so what's a little bit of extra sucked memory hey?18:00
lardmanpenguinbait: true, it's not all that friendly for the tablets18:01
penguinbaitMy pc works fine, Konq and microb on 2008 not so well18:01
sKaBoyRobot101, the "leaked" os2008 for n810 (installed on a n800..) and chinook rep. Compiled telepahy backend for msn w/o problems but i don't see it in the UI.. i think because i need to add the osso-accounts thing18:01
zoranpenguinbait, cannot tell since I don't load pictures  :)18:01
penguinbaitI dont think its all the pics18:01
penguinbaitmaybe it is18:01
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pygisKaBoy: telepathy-butterfly or?18:01
penguinbaitLoad in 2008 OS, then try to zoom to 120%18:02
sKaBoyuhm not, i tried with irc... telepathy-idle sorry :)18:02
penguinbaitmine chokes a bit18:02
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pygisKaBoy: irc is a special story ... telepathy implementation must support rooms18:02
pygi(it probably does there, but just as a notice :P)18:03
Robot101idle does support rooms, yes18:03
pygiRobot101: I meant the client :)18:03
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pygisKaBoy: just read it, thanks ;)18:05
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* fysa wants easy font settings for the browser18:07
fysaputzing around with zoom at 120% all the time is kind of silly and looks like crap..  Opera with a minimum font of 15 and standard zoom was perfect.18:08
Robot101pygi: eh, it does support rooms.18:08
Robot101pygi: it doesn't support anonymous rooms18:08
pygiRobot101: got it =)18:08
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K`zanBe careful out there :-) -
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_Monkeyhey, GNUton19:20
GNUtoni'm trying to compile a debian package in scratchbox, but the compilation abort with a linker error.. cannot find -lz19:20
GNUtonbut i've got zlib installed!19:21
timelessbut did you add link paths?19:21
GNUtonhey _Monkey! :)19:21
b0unc3GNUton: tru to run ldconfig19:21
timelessdon't feed the bots19:21
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GNUtontimeless: yes, i think i've added this line export LD_LIBRARY_PATH := $(QTDIR)/lib:$(LD_LIBRARY_PATH):/usr/lib/ in my rules19:22
timelesseww, qt?19:23
GNUtontimeless: yes19:23
GNUtoni'm trying to compile qt419:23
GNUtonthe deb package is done..19:23
TakGNUton: penguinbait is the person to whom to talk19:23
GNUtonpenguinbait: ping19:23
GNUtonTak: ok, thank you! :)19:24
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* timeless wonders if any nokians are around19:33
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timelessanyone here speak italian/french?19:35
GNUtontimeless: i'm italian!19:35
timelessyou have os2008?19:35
bedboii'm an italian living in paris :)19:36
timeless(os2008, or microb, doesn't really matter)19:36
timelessyou need to be running italian/french(france) locales to help19:36
* timeless busy waits19:37
X-Fadetimeless: Can you poke the image background scaling bug a bit?19:37
shackanbedboi: you're not in new mexico anymore? :)19:38
L0cutusGNUton: idem :)19:39
* Tak wants to move to paris19:39
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Thana64where idownload the last firmware to upgrade ? (chinook?)19:42
GNUrotimeless: i'm italian.19:43
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L0cutusthis is an Italian channel ! :)19:45
GNUroL0cutus: are u italian?19:45
GNUroeheh :)19:45
GNUrocreare un canale #maemo-it? no?? :P19:46
Takwhy split the channel?19:46
L0cutusi've already done it on azzurr@ :)19:46
GNUroTak: no... :)19:47
Takif you start that, the nokians will create #maemo-fi and all go there and talk amongst themselves in incomprehensible troll-language19:47
GNUroahah :)19:47
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murrayc_There aren't many Fins at Nokia.19:48
bedboishackan: nope.19:48
bedboishackan: i'm quite a globe trotter19:48
bedboishackan: btw, i'm really eager to come back to italy.19:48
shackanbedboi: you're kidding, right?19:49
Thana64is mamona usable ?19:49
bedboishackan: nope. i miss the good food19:49
bedboiitaly is still there just for food.19:49
L0cutusbedboi: 1/2 of Italian want to go OUT of Italy..19:49
shackanL0cutus: I'd say even more than that19:50
bedboii'm in that 50%, but then you miss the food19:50
L0cutusyes i know :)19:50
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_Monkeyfood is even cheaper in Japan actually ;-)19:50
* shackan shakes head in disbelief19:50
SyntraHey Guys19:50
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SyntraJust got my Apple Wireless Keyboard19:50
SyntraHas anybody else used one? Cause I'm a little confused.19:51
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shackanit's a keyboard, it (supposedly) has keys, what's to be confused from?19:52
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L0cutusbt keyboard doesn't work well on n800 while connected via bt phone to internet unfortunately19:52
mgedminI want one, I think19:52
Thana64what is hte last system ? i have tried to install minibro and it requeres the system updated, (chinook ? finished/usable ?)19:52
SyntraI'm not exactly sure what to do19:53
SyntraAttempting to Pair it to the N800 gives me like 2 minutes of "Pairing" then a failed message19:53
mgedminusually you have to indicate the wish to pair on both devices at more or less the same time19:54
mgedminand then type the same PIN on both (unless one of the devices has a hardcoded PIN)19:54
SyntraDo you know how I would tell it I want to pair on my Keyboard?19:55
SyntraCause its quite obvious on my N80019:55
mgedminI've never seen an Apple Wireless keyboard up close19:55
mgedminisn't there some small button on the other side, e.g.?19:56
SyntraTheres a power button, but thats it19:56
mgedminis there a manual?19:56
SyntraYeah, it says to "follow the onscreen instructions"19:57
SyntraAfter inserting the CD, that is19:58
* mgedmin googles19:58
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oobgood morning19:59
alteregoWell .. Doesn't look like I'll be getting an N810 before this weekend then :/19:59
* alterego starts to weep.19:59
mgedminthis post implies that people did get the apple wireless keyboard to work with a N800:
alteregoSucks because I'm going camping this weekend.20:00
SyntraYeah, I know that it works20:00
SyntraWhich is why I bought it20:00
alteregoThe GPS would have been cool to play with.20:00
alteregoNot to mention, writing Ruby-Maemo apps on the top of a mountain sounds kind of fun.20:01
guardianis tomboy available for maemo ?20:02
alteregoNo, we have maemo mapper.20:02
alteregoIt's better.20:02
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elbhow are tomboy and maemo mapper related?20:06
elbtomboy is a wiki-like notetaking system, maemo mapper is mapping software20:06
alteregoOh, I thought he meant the GPS software.20:07
SyntraI will read that20:07
alteregoTomboy ..20:07
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alteregoOh, is that the wiki like note taking program?20:07
elbI just said that, word for word, yes20:07
SyntraI have to press buttons on it!20:07
SyntraOK then, I think I can get it working.20:07
alteregoThat might explain why I've heard of it,20:08
elbwhat GPS program did you think it was related to?20:08
elbbecause if you were thinking of the commercial tomtom software, maemo mapper doesn't even compare20:08
alteregoSure it does.20:08
alteregoI can't modify tomtom software.20:09
elbcalculating and fetching routes before you leave does not compare to built-in mapping with on-the-fly route calculation ;-)20:09
alteregoYou need a computer to calculate your routes? :P20:09
elbno, I mean, they're not comparable as in they don't do at all the same thing20:09
alteregoThe Nokia app does that stuff.20:09
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elbI guess you don't drive in strange places, much20:09
alteregoUnfortunately after deleting it I can't reinstall it without reflashing my tablet.20:09
alteregoNo, I'm just used to working out my own routes.20:10
elbyes, one could compare a commercial GPS unit with the Nokia GPS software, that would be reasonable20:10
Syntramgedmin: Thanks a TON For that post!20:10
SyntraGot it working 100% now!20:10
elbworking out your own routes in a strange city means stopping and consulting the map, or having a co-pilot20:10
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elbat least, that level of map consultation while moving is irresponsible and dangerous, many people *do* attempt it20:11
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alteregoCity navigation is different I guess.20:11
elbI've been known to employ the "point my vehicle in approximately the right direction until I'm close" method of navigation, but it is fraught with its own perils20:11
alteregoMeh, taxi drivers are better for city navigation :P20:12
elbsure, if you're on the highway with exits coming no more rapidly than every few minutes and a destination that's a thousand miles away, calculating your own routes is trivial!20:12
Robot101elb: the worst time I ever had /with/ a GPS was when it took me into the centre of london and started crashing whenever I did and/or it thought I'd deviated from the route, and OOM'd when it was trying to calculate a new one20:12
Robot101go Series 60 map software :(20:12
elbRobot101: hah nice20:12
Robot101and when you have 5 lane roads and you're in the wrong lane, and then it crashes and you're going a totally different way, you're screwed20:13
Robot101I had to drive off into random side streets and reload the program20:13
Robot101totally lame20:13
elbanyway, the point is, comparing maemo mapper to a commercial gps unit's navigation software is disingenuous20:13
elband comparing it to a note-taking package is nonsensical ;-)20:14
alteregoOh, so you had a point.20:14
elbI made it earlier, and you pooh-poohed it20:14
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elb(six minutes ago)20:15
alteregoI think the point is. I made the mistake of thinking that tomboy was GPS software.20:15
alteregoI'd completely forgot it, I played with it a little a few years ago.20:15
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alteregoAnd regardless. I don't care about route finding software.20:15
alteregoIt's much more interesting to me to just know where I am.20:16
elbthat's fine, but that doesn't make maemo mapper better than any given piece of software you haven't even identified ;-)20:16
alteregoWhich is what I'd say GPS software is. Whether it's tomtom or whatever.20:16
elbI carry a GPS everywhere I go, and it doesn't even *have* street-level maps -- and I find it useful and entertaining nonetheless20:16
alteregoWell, it's got to be better than any commercial closed source program right? :P20:16
elbnot necessarily20:17
elbit's perfectly possible for a closed-source application to be better than any given open-source application by any metric *except* potential (or the nebulous concept of freedom)20:18
elbI've used an awful lot of really crappy open source software ;-)20:18
alteregoOh, so you count quality above freedom?20:18
alteregoI'm not sure there's a single aspect in life that freedom doesn't come paramount. (in my opinion)20:19
elbtrue freedom, I agree20:19
elbin terms of software ... software is around to get a job done20:19
trulsack, just realized maybe using for building my application is useless...20:20
elbI happen to agree that there exist very few commercial software packages for which there is not an appropriate open source alternative, which is better both in qualitative and idealogical metrics20:20
alteregoI'd say the freedom to examine and modify software is an essential function :P20:20
elbbut such packages *do* exist20:20
trulsis using configure required when you build stuff?20:20
trulsto make sure the crosscompling works properly?20:20
alteregotruls, as long as you use python compiled for your host architecture you should be able to run files to your hearts content.20:21
trulsalterego: even if it compiles extensions?20:21
alteregoI don't know. Python extensions are ugly.20:22
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trulsheh, yeah20:22
trulsthat's what happens when stuff isn't available in the basic repositories20:22
alteregoI have a similar issue with Ruby, when needing ruby in the build process of some package. There is a chance that it'll break somewhere.20:22
truls(in this case a nice blowfish encryption lib)20:22 is capable of cross-compilation20:23
alteregoSo I compiled a ruby interpreter for my host system and placed it in a location that is shared across _all_ scratchbox targets.20:23
trulselb: ah, thanks!20:23
elbI don't know if a particular has to take special steps to be able to do so20:23
trulshm, i'll try and see what happens i guess20:23
elb(in the C world, for example, using autoconf doesn't make your package magically able to cross-compile in any but the simplest cases)20:23
alteregoMany people have hit the qemu glibc arm-eabi issue ..20:24
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alteregoI thought that was what he was refering to.20:24
trulsit's kinda hard following the python_maemo_3.x_howto when you also have extensions to compile....20:25
trulsin this case regarding the debian packaging20:25
truls"The main point is that the binary-arch target was emptied and the binary-indep filled, since the application being 100% Python means that it is 100% architecture-independent.20:25
truls(regarding changing debian/rules)20:26
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trulsi guess it would help if i knew what i was doing20:26
elbI often feel that way ;-)20:26
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trulshm, svn-buildpackage doesnt work so well in armel...20:48
realitygaps_hi guys, can anyone explain how to get a2dp working in os2008?20:48
realitygaps_or is this the wrong channel20:48
alteregoIf you're looking for an insightful answer. This is definitely the wrong channel ;)20:50
* alterego wonders what a2dp is anyway.20:51
Taktruls: so the rules for building the extensions should be under binary-arch, and the pure python stuff should be under binary-indep20:51
mgedminalterego: a bluetooth profile for hi-quality stereo audio, iirc20:51
alteregoAh, like handsfree kit thing?20:52
mgedminno, handsfree kits use sco, which is a bluetooth profile for low-quality mono audio20:52
trulsTak: ok, playing around with it now20:52
trulsTak: just have all rules under both? :)20:52
alteregoRight, okay. So more like wireless headphones?20:52
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mgedminI might be using the word "profile" incorrectly, btw, but these are definitely different protocols/whatevers20:52
trulsthey're just a lot of keywords20:52
alteregomgedmin, yeah. They generally call them profiles I think ;)20:53
mgedminwireless headphones, yes20:53
mgedmin... or I might be misremembering; all I remember about the stereo audio protocol is that it starts with an 'a' and has four letters, one of which is a digit20:54
mgedminPeople Cannot Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms20:54
Takheh, for my rubygame package, I just put the whole thing under binary-arch20:54
* Tak lazy20:54
trulsthat's what i'm doing now20:54
Taksince it had native extensions20:54
trulsso if that works, i'm set ;)20:54
TakWorks For Me[tm]20:55
trulsack, won't show up in the menu...20:55
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* czr peeks20:58
* Tak mallets czr 20:58
* mgedmin confuses czr with bzr20:58
czrmgedmin, no, it's Pulse Code Modulated Central Intelligence Agency, everybody knows that20:58
realitygaps_mgedmin: yeah its the wireless bluetooth protocol. I heard it can be enabled by playing with /etc/bluetooth/audio.conf but havent had much luck20:58
mgedminrealitygaps_: I heard *some* audio players for the n800 have explicit support for it20:59
* czr becomes azr (malleted and confused)20:59
mgedminwhich implies that you can't easily redirect all of the n800's audio output to it20:59
mgedminat least, not with the current firmware version20:59
realitygaps_mgedmin: kagu does but theres no backend20:59
realitygaps_and i had kagu working in 2007 but 2008 no go20:59
* czr puts on the maemo-virgin-chicken-armor20:59
trulsack, keep getting almost empty debs21:00
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trulswhich is so strange as the debian/<programname> directory is full of nifty stuff...21:02
Takdon't you need a2dpd ?21:04
realitygaps_tak: i dont think so everyone keeps saying it just involves changing /etc/bluetooth/audio.conf21:04
realitygaps_tak: ive found hints all over but no instructions21:04
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realitygaps_oh well i guess i'll live without a2dp for the moment21:05
* czr hands realitygaps_ r2d2 instead21:05
czrit's slightly more obsolete, but bleeps and beeps just as well21:05
realitygaps_r2d2 can stream wirelessly?21:05
czrrealitygaps_, "sure"21:06
realitygaps_czr: does r2 run linux i dont remember noticing?21:06
realitygaps_tak: thanks thats how i got it working on os200721:06
realitygaps_tak: was thinking that a2dp is more supported on os200821:07
mgedminwait 2008 is the one in n81021:07
mgedmingaah, too many numbers21:07
czrrealitygaps_, everything runs linux. even linus runs linux!21:07
realitygaps_mgedim: yep n810 os21:07
czrrealitygaps_, it will be released for N800 too though21:08
realitygaps_czr: yep im running it on n80021:08
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czrit's not the same thing if you mean the N810 version21:08
* mgedmin googles maemo roadmap21:09
realitygaps_im running the n810 software on the n800, i figured that they are almost the same hardware so there wouldnt be much difference21:10
mgedmin"BT headset support" is still on the roadmap, and a3dp is not mentioned21:10
alteregoI thought it was a2dp!21:10
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* alterego runs around in confused angst21:10
mgedmina2dp is not mentioned either21:11
* czr gives some tender caring loving to alterego 21:11
mgedminnot even a1dp...21:11
* mgedmin hides21:11
alteregoWoah, calm down there.21:11
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realitygaps_   was my reference for trying to get it working21:11
alteregoNow I'm not confused .. Now I'm scared :P21:11
czra2dp = A2-sized paper data-processing, like, when you solve an algorithm on a paper, but using the ISO std size of A2.21:11
czrso a1dp would just be easier, and a5dp the ultimate hell!21:12
mgedminwasn't it A2-sized desktop plotter?21:12
mgedmina6dp being the pocketable version21:12
czrwhy would you want to plot on A2 sized desktops?21:12
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alteregoa6 size dung paper ..21:13
mgedminokay, digital plotter21:13
mgedminfor cutting out really large digits21:13
realitygaps_awayback in a bit, gonna set up scratchbox on the other machine instead of wasting more time on the a2dp21:13
czrmgedmin, middle fingers?21:13
* mgedmin hides his hands21:13
realitygaps_awaythanks for your help guys21:13
* czr slaps realitygaps_away with a trout for doing the nick_afk-thingy21:13
trulshm, so what steps of dpkg-buildpackage is responsible for moving stuff from ${DESTDIR} and into the final deb?21:13
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trulsanything i can affect in my debian/rules?21:14
czralterego, this is what happens when I wake up in the evening. chaos!21:14
truls(by affect i mean mess up)21:14
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trulsthat's there21:14
trulsfinal step in binary-arch21:14
alteregoczr, I've been coding the same website for the past 6 hours straight O_O21:15
Takand you have the arch specified in debian/control ?21:15
mgedmintruls: can you pastebin your debian/rules for lazy eyeballing?21:15
trulsTak: no :)21:15
czralterego, "coding" and "website" don't mix. unless you're doing it in ruby :-)21:15
trulsTak: any21:15
czralterego, I've been sleeping for 4 hours :-)21:15
alteregoczr, yes, I'm doing it in ruby :P21:15
czralterego, ah, then I forgive you :-)21:16
trulsmgedmin: sure, let me try changing the arch first21:16
trulsTak: what should it be?21:16
_Monkeyhmmm... armel is the new architecture21:16
Takany is correct.21:18
Takfor an indep package, it would be all21:18
mgedminhmm... looks ok21:19
mgedmindoes the package name (yaysafe) match the topmost changelog entry, and also the directory name?21:20
trulsi must be doing something stupid....21:20
Takhmm, your debian/rules looks ok to me too21:20
trulsdirectory name is yaysafe-0.1.021:20
mgedminand debian/changelog?21:20
trulsyaysafe (0.1.0-1) unstable; urgency=low21:20
mgedminokay, I give up21:20
mgedminif you get stuff in debian/yaysafe but not in the .deb21:20
mgedminwait, is there a debian/files?21:21
trulsmaybe my armel dpkg-buildpackage is broken...21:21
trulsno dirs either21:21
trulsmaybe that's it21:21
mgedminno, I don't think so21:21
trulsmgedmin: yeah i get stuff in debian/yaysafe21:21
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trulsi keep getting a 2kb deb-file with just the control info and a 10 line list of contents21:22
* truls listens intently21:22
mgedminI think you're missing dh_install in your binary-arch:21:22
* truls adds21:23
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Takoh, haha, it's commented out21:23
trulsdidn't change anything...21:23
mgedminI found the clue in the load-applet debian/rules: it installs stuff into $(CURDIR)/debian/build, and then in binary-arch: does dh_install --sourcedir=debian/build -v before dh_builddeb21:23
mgedminor maybe all dh_install does there is copy stuff from debian/build to debian/$pkgname21:24
* mgedmin not an expert21:24
mgedminwhat does dh_installdeb do?21:25
trulswarning, `debian/tmp/DEBIAN/control' contains user-defined field `Maemo-Icon-26'21:25
trulsdpkg-deb: building package `yaysafe' in `../yaysafe_0.1.0-1_armel.deb'.21:25
trulsdpkg-deb: ignoring 1 warnings about the control file(s)21:25
trulsthat's the only warning...21:25
trulsbut that's supposed to be normal... right?21:26
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mgedminokay, for dh_install you also need a debian/$pkgname.install file21:26
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mgedminthat lists things like 'usr/share/pixmaps/*'21:26
* mgedmin looks for a simpler example21:26
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trulsi dont' have one of those...21:26
scriptdamn, are those accounts _somehow_ synced?21:28
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mgedminthe package for less installs stuff into debian/$packagename, doesn't use dh_install, doesn't have debian/*.install, but has a debian/dirs with one entry only ("usr/bin")21:28
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script... or is this whole midgard-stuff just painfully broken ...?21:30
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trulsTak: doesnt seem to be any changes in surprising places...21:31
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chelliscript: i guess its the second one :)21:31
Takscript: yes.21:31
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scriptgreat ...21:31
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guardiangood evening21:33
scriptso is there anyone here feeling responsive for those login-stuff?21:33
czrscript, probably not right now21:34
czrthere was a bug in the bugzilla that you could vote. dealing with general unreliailibyt21:34
czrcan't remeber the bug number now though21:34
scriptsound like a good thing to do :)21:35
konttoriisn't bt headset supported?21:35
czrscript, you can try finding bergie as well21:35
konttoriI thought it was.21:35
* konttori hasn't ever even taken a look at the bt settings21:35
bergiescript: we're trying to talk big N over so we could consolidate stuff a bit21:36
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bergiebut now it is a bit of a mess with multiple systems, and so multiple login systems21:36
scriptbergie: ok, thanks21:36
czrbergie, I knew I could blame you! :-)21:36
bergiemaybe shibboleth or something21:36
scriptbergie: but it seems that my "older" account became completly unusable on https://maemo.org21:37
bergiethe problem is, whatever we choose we also need to get bugzilla and gforge to support21:37
bergieaccounts are copied to from gforge21:37
bergieand last weekend gforge (garage) created a completely broken user transport file21:38
scriptchelli: kann dich nicht msgen, bloedes netz ;)21:38
bergieso midgard thought almost all accounts had been disabled and acted accordingly :-(21:38
scriptsounds like a lot of fun ;)21:38
chelliscript: :)21:38
czrscript, you have to identify yourself to nickserv in order to privmsg on freenode21:38
scriptchelli: dummerweise hab ich das erst 5 minuten sp├Ąter gemerkt ;)21:38
scriptczr: i know ...21:38
chelliscript: schon ok :)21:38
czrscript, ok then.21:38
scripti just don't like registering everywhere and everything ...21:38
czrscript, join a bogus channel and invite chelli over then21:39
GNUtonhave somebody compiled qt4 for maemo?21:39
mgedminopenid is supposed to fix the reregistering problem, only few websites accept it...21:39
czrbleh. sbox segfaulted again21:42
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czrI think there's a race with signal handling or something21:44
czrsomething fishy happens. mostly hit the bug when starting something on the background & with run-standalone or doing ctrl+z & bg21:44
bergiemgedmin: openid is a second option if shibboleth can't be made to work. Midgard already supports it21:44
czralso, noticed that dbus-monitor at least has an issue with signal handling as well. it can't be broken with ctrl+c21:44
* mgedmin googles shibboleth21:46
* czr kicks scratchbox21:46
_berto_solmumaha: are you there?21:48
trulsweird... i can build the package manually using dpkg-deb21:49
trulsi just wonder what parameters dpkg-buildpackages calls dpkg-deb with..21:49
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trulshm, calling dh_builddeb manually also works..21:50
trulsnow dpkg-buildpackage works too...21:51
trulswith no actual changes...21:51
trulsmaybe some temporary files somewhere borked everything...21:51
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czrtruls, it was tak21:53
czrtruls, he broke your build21:53
* czr is pretty certain21:53
* Tak rm -rf ~tak && logout21:53
TakI don't even exist; it couldn't have been me.21:54
trulsall i have to do now is fix the menu-launcher, and i'm set!21:54
tuxthepenguinI'd like etags and emacs installed under X86 scratchbox - but if I add the standard bora repositories to the end of /etc/apt/sources.list I notice, it wants to remove at least one hildon package and install and upgrade a bunch of others - anyone know if it's ok to do this or whether it's the wrong approach and I should use some other repository to get these?21:54
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czrdon't be so westernly limiting in your thought-patterns. you don't exist but it still could've been you :-)21:54
lardmanis down?21:54
K`zanNo, it just responds *******SLOWLY******* :-)21:55
mgedminworks here21:55
czr"it chooses the clients it responds to"21:55
K`zanMust...21:55 would be a good source of entropy czr21:55
K`zanWorks better in the middle of the night here on the west coast USA...21:55
lardmancan someone tell the the algorithm in this?:
czralterego, heh, true that21:56
mgedminniteOwl: do you have the latest bora SDK installed in your scratchbox?  if not, then I'd suspect it wants to upgrade21:56
trulsyay, and the blowfish also works from python now on the n800!21:56
czralterego, although I'm slightly worried about the "non-predictable" part. so far is pretty predictable ;-)21:56
czrit normally fails after finnish office hours21:56
_berto_anyone with a 770 with OS2006 here?21:56
zs_berto_: upgrade to 2007 ;P21:57
trulsi guess i just don't understand the format of the debian/<program>.links file21:57
czrlardman, it doesn't open. that's the algorithm :-)21:57
czrtruls, why do you use links?21:58
trulsright now i'm using:21:58
truls/usr/share/applications/hildon/yaysafe.desktop etc/others-menu/extra_applications/0112_yaysafe.desktop21:58
czrtruls, noo21:58
trulsczr: to get on the menu21:58
czrtruls, forget about that file.21:58
_berto_zs: no, I don't have one :D it's to debug a problem that someone else found in that device21:58
czrtruls, yes21:58
* truls forgets21:58
trulsso how?21:58
_Monkeyso how are things?21:58
czrtruls, it's not required. infact, it's brain damage21:58
czrtruls, just put your desktop file under /usr/share/applications/hildon/21:58
czrit will appear under extras by default21:58
czrthe howtos (4.0) contain a lot of really obsolete stuff21:59
trulsso maybe the problem is in my desktop-file21:59
* truls is on 3.021:59
czrnot sure whether you need the links there. my bad21:59
czryou don't in 3.2 at least21:59
mgedminfwiw the examples in dh_link(1) imply that you should be using usr/share/... etc, without the leading /21:59
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trulsso how to debug taht my application doesnt start when clicking the link?22:02
czrbleh. crashed sbox again22:02
trulsand typing /usr/bin/ in the shell works perfectly22:03
czrtruls, what are you testing on?22:03
trulson the device22:03
czrif you run /usr/bin/ on the device?22:03
czralso, does yaysafe invoke libosso?22:03
trulsah, no22:03
czrwhich one?22:03
trulslast one22:04
_Monkeyhmmm... last one is "save"22:04
czrtruls, first one works?22:04
czrtruls, the prog runs without params?22:04
czryou get the icon in the task navigator?22:04
trulsit requires knowing sys.argv[0] though22:04
trulsi don't know if that's a problem22:04
czrit could be22:05
trulsno icon when running from menu22:05
czrnot sure really. but relying on that is not good.22:05
trulsjsut the "loading..."22:05
czrtruls, I mean do you get the app in the extras menu or not?22:05
trulsyou have to rely on it quite alot of times22:05
trulsyes, it's in the menu22:05
trulsthat's where i'm having trouble running it from22:05
czrdid you install the service file?22:06
czror what's your .desktop like?22:07
czryou need both22:07
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trulsi have both22:09
trulsi can pastebin them22:09
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czrpastebin away. brb (smoke)22:10
inzhow long does it take to start up?22:11
_berto_solmumaha: when you're back please try this and tell me what happens ->
inzAnd does it register the net.tangstad.yaysafe name?22:11
niteOwlmgedmin: I think so - It's 3.2 Maemo SDK - and I don't want to jump to chinook yet. I am targeting the N80022:11
mgedminapt-get upgrade with 'bora' in the sources list won't upgrade to chinook22:12
mgedmindon't know why it wants to remove hildon packages, though22:12
trulsinz: it gives up after 15 seconds22:12
niteOwljust one package from hildon22:12
niteOwlit want to remove hildon-status-bar-lib-dev22:13
inztruls, I meant how long does it take to start when you run it from terminal22:13
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niteOwloops and sec22:13
inztruls, if it takes more than two(?) seconds for the program to register the name in system(?) bus, the bus daemon will terminate your program22:14
niteOwlit wants to remove 6 hildon pkgs and several osso, etc22:14
niteOwlIt wants to do: 37 upgraded, 42 newly installed, 70 to remove and 207 not upgraded.22:14
trulsabout 2-3 seconds22:14
trulsit's python after all...22:14
niteOwlseems a bit much to me22:14
czrtruls, remove the x-osso-type line22:15
inztruls, well then, it might just be that the program gets terminated before it is shown22:15
czrtruls, and modify X-Osso-Service=net.tangstad.yaysafe22:15
trulsto what?22:15
czrotherwise it will get incorrect name. and you need to register the name (either via python dbus) or use libosso22:16
czrtruls, to what I wrote22:16
trulsinz: none of the python-code is run22:16
czrfrom just yaysage22:16
czrsafe even22:16
czrtruls, also, version is wrong I think22:16
czrin desktop-file22:16
trulsbut the python-code never gets started though22:16
truls(i had it write to file, so i could tell)22:17
czrfix the version22:17
niteOwlahh I see: I chose the ubuntu repository - of course it wanted to remove unknowns like hildon. I need a better repository aimed at maemo folks - Right now I have deb bora free non-free22:17
konttoridid you try to make install package with pypackager?22:17
niteOwlapparently it does not contain emacs though :-(22:17
konttoriIt should help you make all you need easily.22:17
trulsczr: what should it be?22:17
czrtruls, 1.022:18
czrtruls, it gives the version of the desktop file. not your app22:18
trulsit's not the version of my program?22:18
trulsaccording to the howto, it's the application version22:18
mgedminniteOwl: why don't you do your emacsing from outside scratchbox?22:18
czrthe howto is wrong then22:18
trulsheh, ok22:19
mgedminniteOwl: symlink ~/scratchbox -> /scratchbox/users/USERNAME/home/USERNAME for extra convenience22:19
czrtruls, tell me how it goes22:22
trulsczr: changing version didn't change anything22:22
czrrepost your files on pastebin22:22
czrtruls, also, which directory do you install your service file into?22:22
trulsjust changed version up until now22:22
czrdid you reinstall the file?22:22
czror just modified it in place?22:23
czrok. do the other changes and repost the files22:23
trulsdoes it have to be
czrI told you what to put there.22:24
trulsyay, that fixed it, thanks22:26
trulsso the problem was the names in the service and the desktop-files didn't match then22:26
* czr nods22:27
czryou'll still have to register the name from your app22:27
trulswhich also differs from what the howto says22:27
czrotherwise the application killer will kill your process22:27
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czrtruls, you should file bugs against the howto22:27
czrmaybe some day they will get fixed22:27
trulswill do22:28
trulsshould get some sleep though, 5.30am22:28
czrthat's not an excuse :-)22:28
czr"do it for me"22:28
czror just ignore it. I don't care :-)22:29
trulsi would do it now, but bugzilla forces me to register22:29
czrindeed it does22:29
trulswhich is just evil for reporting bugs22:29
czrindeed it is22:29
czrbut evil is the way of the land :-)22:29
* truls just moved to that other land, to get away from evil22:30
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trulsyay, everything seems to work now though, application staying up and everything22:31
trulsczr: thanks22:31
czrtruls, np.22:31
* czr emulates viagra for maemo apps22:32
czr"want your app to start and stay up? ask czr"22:32
* truls realized python is a memory hog22:32
Thana64is BORA the lastest version ?22:32
Thana64"stable release"22:33
czrtruls, depends on how you calculate memory usage. but generally yes22:33
czrThana64, no. 4.0 is the latest version22:33
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czrThana64, however, you cannot run applications built with 4.0 on OS200722:33
_berto_solmumaha: so you tried it?22:33
czrThana64, you need OS2008 to run 4.0 apps22:33
Thana64czr, yes, ok, that's "chinook" correct ? and has very applications exported to it ?22:35
Thana64czr, btw, what is the aprox. delay for every maemo release ?22:35
czrThana64, that is chinook, correct.22:35
czr"and has very applications exported to it" = does not compute22:36
Thana64where i download it ?22:36
czrI don't know about the delays22:36
czrThana64, contains the scripts that do the downloading and installing for you22:36
Thana64sorry for my english, i mean that my GF has very applications installed (abiword, etc), and i want that she have the same for can work in the university with the n800, i mean if there are a good number of applications ported to 4.0 (extra repositories, not official maemo)22:37
czrThana64, not many applications have been ported to 4.022:38
czrsince most people are waiting for their N810 or getting OS2008 for N80022:38
czrThana64, I'd wait if I was you22:38
solmumaha_berto_: still no images22:38
_berto_can you run it from an xterm?22:39
_berto_same output?22:39
_berto_that means that loading the image doesn't fail22:40
_berto_and can you see the icon in the about dialog?22:40
_berto_that's very strange, I don't know why it doesn't work22:41
solmumahahappens with a friend too so it's not just my device22:43
Thana64czr, ok, well, i can install it to the real n800 system (she are working from the system on the mmc) and see22:43
_berto_maybe I should set gtk-button-images to true, I'll try now ...22:43
czrThana64, OS2008 for N800 is not out yet22:43
_berto_yes, another guy told me the same22:43
Thana64oh, is not released ?22:44
czrThana64, it's not.22:44
Thana64the other day i have tried to install minibro and i think that it has wanted to upgrade the system first, or something22:44
* czr does not know minibro22:44
czrlike a regular brother, but only smaller?22:44
* czr hides Tak into the backroom22:45
Thana64there' the ppl has tell me that opera is died and there's a new one for maemo22:46
_Monkeymicrob is probably the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)22:47
czrThana64, microb is the browser engine on OS200822:47
_berto_solmumaha: I'm building a package, I'll tell you in 5 minutes22:47
Thana64that, microb, sorry :)22:47
keesjhmm php disabled on garage?22:47
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Thana64czr, when OS2008 can be out then ? btw is more light the graphical system (aparently it eat good ram/cpu)22:48
czrThana64, OS2008 for N810 is out. OS2008 for N800 is not. yet. I don't know when.22:49
Thana64i can only use chinook for n810 ??22:49
czryou use chinook to develop applications for OS2008.22:49
czrbut for now, yes.22:49
Thana64yes, i have the SDK installed on my system22:49
czrsince there is no OS2008 for N800 yet.22:49
Thana64hurmf :/22:50
czrThana64, it's not my fault :-)22:50
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Thana64yes, of course22:50
Takactually it is czr's fault22:50
* czr hides & runs22:50
Thana64i have just wanted to upgrade the system... and have this f**** browser working with google services (i can't pick in any part)22:51
* czr calls his cousins vanja and igor to go educate tak in the backroom22:51
_berto_try again22:51
X-FadeThana64: Why don't you just install microb for OS2007?22:51
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Thana64czr, i have used wildcards :) that can be "frikin'" :)22:51
* Tak watches US DHS escort Vanja and Igor to Guantanemo for some waterboarding22:51
X-FadeThana64: That is the same browser as 2008.22:51
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czrThana64, or foolz22:52
Thana64X-Fade, my GF has try that and has tell me that the webpage wants to upgrade the system22:52
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X-FadeThana64: Don't believe her then..22:52
Thana64maybe i need to make a better look22:52
X-FadeThana64: Good idea ;)22:52
Thana64btw, what i do now with the chinook SDK if i can't use my packages to my actual system ?22:53
Thana64install the SDK of bora ?22:53
Takgaze wistfully at it22:53
X-FadeTest in sdk?22:53
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X-FadeHope that they release OS2008 soon? :)22:53
X-FadeFriday is comming up again :D22:53
solmumaha_berto_: no :(22:54
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* alterego yawns. This website is taking forever.22:54
_berto_then I don't know what's happening :?22:54
alteregoI don't like making websites :(22:54
czrX-Fade, you say that every wednesday! :-)22:54
_berto_I can use stock buttons instead but they won't look so nice22:54
X-Fadeczr: :)22:54
X-Fadeczr: It is a fact that a lot of releases have been on friday. But to find out which is the right one, that is hard..22:55
_berto_solmumaha: in version 0.2 what did you see in the buttons? icon? text? both things?22:55
* alterego develops a universal message system for the web app. From now on known as "UNI-MESS".22:56
czrX-Fade, I know. I think it's the two least significant bits of the week number. those are significant22:56
czralthough I haven't quite figured out the exact rule22:56
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czroh yes, and my formula also factors in the position of the moon22:56
X-Fadeczr: It would take a lot of the fun away ;)22:57
czryes. you know me. always going for max fun.22:57
* czr grumbles and continues working on the material update..22:57
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solmumaha_berto_: 0.2 worked the same on both22:58
_berto_I mean, did you see an icon in all buttons, or a text, or what?22:58
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_berto_and no text?22:59
solmumahaiirc :)22:59
_berto_so I'll try again22:59
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_berto_try again23:05
_berto_this one should workd23:05
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JaffaEveryone seen the thread on ITT that the latest N810 release date according to (where USian device programme codes would have to be used, AIUI) is 19-Dec-2007. Fun.23:08
elbI hope that's incorrect23:09
elbsince I leave the country on the 18th :-(23:09
czrI leave on 12th :-)23:09
solmumaha_berto_: nope23:10
_berto_doesn't work??23:10
_berto_ok, last try23:10
Takaww, I don't get to leave the country until July :-(23:11
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chxaside from is the N810 in stock anywhere?23:12
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czrTak, I can make you leave earlier if you want to23:15
* czr works for Involuntary Travels Corp23:16
_berto_solmumaha: ok, try again23:16
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angelrNokia store in nyc have a decent amounts of N810s23:17
solmumaha_berto_: small icons and text23:19
_berto_and the text says 'YES' and 'NO' for love and ban, I guess23:20
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czr"Are you sure you want love?" YES/NO23:20
_berto_now all 5 icons are stock icons23:21
_berto_and I chosse GTK_STOCK_YES and GTK_STOCK_NO for love and ban23:21
_berto_but I don't know why does icons appear23:21
_berto_however if I set them with gtk_button_set_image they don't23:21
* alterego blames czr for the N810 drought23:23
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czryes. I'm stockpiling them23:23
alteregoJust as I suspected!23:23
* czr is doing a DDOS on all geeks23:23
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mariorzanyone using some kewl splash screens you wanna link :P23:29
|Rexcellent news, a Proactive Auto Assignement plugin for OLSR is to be released on SF asap :)23:29
czrmariorz, what if you google for "kewl splash screens"? :-)23:29
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mariorzczr: i could and check otu take out the gimp do the resizing etc..., was thiking maybe someone already did that :)23:30
czrmariorz, indeed you could. you could do an app like that. one that would also warn about incorrect usage wrt copyrights etc :-)23:31
l7hey, what is the best podcast syncing program for IT2007 or 2008?23:32
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czrhmm. weird23:33
czrmy N800 just spontanously rebooted23:33
czr(running OS2008, int release)23:33
czrI've seen this happening now on both N800 and N81023:34
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inzczr, what is the bootreason?23:34
czrinz, where can I find it?23:34
inzczr, err... I'll have to check23:35
czrinz, do tell :_)23:35
czr:-) even23:35
czr /proc/bootreason :-)23:35
czrinz, "32wd_to"23:35
inzHmm, was that the hardware watchdog...23:35
czrlooks like watchdog timeout23:35
czrthe device wasn't running anything. connected to AC23:36
czrbeen like that for at least 2-3 days23:36
czrI've not even ssh:d into it23:36
czrhmm. I wonder whether and where I should report this23:37
czrand what would be the use really.23:37
K`zanNokia-N800-39:~# cat /proc/bootreason23:38
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czrI wonder if these are documented anywhere23:39
czrlike in public.23:39
inzK`zan, it means that you plugged in the charger when the device was powered off23:41
czrinz, any ideas on whether and where I should report this?23:41
K`zanProbably, but plugging in the charger makes it boot?!?23:41
czrdoesn't seem like there's a lot of data to go with the report though. but still.23:41
inzczr, it doesn't say reboot, only boot23:41
K`zanNot that it will be off much :).23:42
czrinz, hmm?23:42
inzoops, wrong nick23:42
K`zanGotcha :)23:42
* czr teaches inz how to spell czr23:42
inzczr, your nick was much easier to type than K`zan's ;)23:42
K`zanNext week I learn to type :)23:42
_berto_solmumaha: ok, I reproduced the problem with SDK 2, I'll work on it23:42
czrinz, I know!23:42
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czrnormally cztab is enough.23:42
czrunless I hang around some dubious channels23:43
inzczr, I meant to paste you that and then I was interrupted23:43
czrinz, ah, cool. didn't know there was a doc like that23:43
alteregoI can see the end of this project!23:44
alteregoThis is the last leg me feels.23:44
czralterego, you've discovered the wonderful world of heroin?23:44
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czrhmm. what's the lifeguard_restarts useful for?23:45
czrit tracks how many times each application has gone berserk?23:45
alteregoI've not heard of it.23:45
czralterego, /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_restarts23:46
czrhmm. I'll see what the N810 says23:46
czrspontanous reboots tend to be quite irritating to me23:46
_berto_solmumaha: I think I found it23:47
alteregoAfter the work I've done this week. I deserve this weekend (goin' camping):)23:47
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_berto_solmumaha: are you there?23:50
_berto_czr: you have a 770 too, right?23:50
czr_berto_, yes23:50
czrbut I haven't booted it in ages23:50
_berto_i'm building new packages, I think I fixed the problem23:50
_berto_ahm, ok23:50
czr_berto_, what are you building?23:50
_berto_I thought you were using vagalume on the 770 too23:51
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czroh. not me :-)23:51
czr_Monkey, vagalume?23:51
_Monkeyi haven't a clue, czr23:51
czraww. I vaguely remember asking someone about it. what is it again _berto_ ?23:51
_berto_a player for maemo23:52
czrah yes. that was it.23:52
czrI might try it out if I ever decide to get an N800/N81023:52
czror decide to use the 770 for anything. I'll wait for 2008HE for it though23:52
_berto_the fact is that I was debugging a problem that only appears in the 77023:53
_berto_that's why I needed help23:53
_berto_I'll wait for solmumaha to come back23:53
czrah. I see now. I've helped but my 770 is not running anything useful probably23:54
_berto_don't worry :)23:54
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_berto_solmumaha: install the package again once you're back23:55
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