IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-11-19

Igg-mankaltsi: does it overwrite the file?00:00
kaltsiigg-man what's your OS.. OS2008 or 2007?00:00
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Igg-man2007 at the moment00:00
alteregokaltsi, have you actually looked at the sources.list file?00:00
kaltsialterego of course00:00
alteregokaltsi, the application manager is _not_ a front end to it.00:00
alteregoMy sources.list file is completely empty.00:00
kaltsiigg-man you should not switch to chinook.. it's for OS200800:00
kaltsialterego do you have a sources.list.d directory there?00:01
Igg-mankaltsi: Do I just need to s/bora/chinook to switch?00:01
kaltsiigg-man: no you need to reflash the device with the new operating system00:01
Igg-manargh, okay00:01
kaltsialterego ok and under that there is a hildon-something which is a sources.list too00:01
Igg-manSo I need to go download that from Nokia's site?00:01
kaltsiigg-man yes but it's not officially available yet00:01
Igg-manI think I read that they don't have it up for n800 users00:01
alteregokaltsi, yes. But it's not sources.list is it00:02
alteregoAnd application manager doesn't touch sources.list does it.00:02
kaltsialterego it is.. and if you create a /etc/apt/sources.list the appmanager will also understand that somehow00:02
Igg-manatarii: Sweet, I like that00:02
alteregoNo, it's a completely different file kaltsi00:02
alteregoWhat kind of crack are you smoking.00:03
kaltsiin os2008 the appmanager does not touch /etc/apt/sources.list but the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-something00:03
_MonkeyAnd is it still recommended to go into "red pill" mode on the n800?00:03
AtariiIgg-man from your n800 your can click the title of each repository and it will install it00:03
alterego_Monkey forget and00:03
_Monkeyalterego: I forgot and00:03
Igg-manI think I'm just going to try running n800 with the boro00:03
alterego_Monkey and is <reply>00:03
_MonkeyOK, alterego.00:03
Atariialterego does monkey learn stuff all the time from what people say?00:03
alteregoAtarii, yeah00:04
alteregoIt's annoying :P00:04
kaltsithat hildon-application-manager.list at least for me looks exactly like a sources.list file00:04
konttoritrevarthan: I seem t be having trouble with kagu00:04
konttori(in case you are around)00:04
alteregokaltsi, you're completely missing the point. You said the application manager was a front end for sources.list file. No, it's not.00:04
Atariiyea, all u seem to be doin is deleting monkey's ramblings00:04
disqkonttori: #kagu is a better place :)00:05
trevarthanyeah, hop over konttori00:05
Atariikonttori are you still working on UKMP?00:05
kaltsialterego yes I said it modifies sources.list which was wrong :) but I said it's a front end to apt-get00:05
alteregokaltsi, just because some other file some other place that is changed by application manager _looks_ like sources.list. Doesn't mean it is that file.00:05
alteregoIt's not like they're symlinked is it ..00:05
kaltsibah now you're missing the point :)00:06
alteregoThis conversation is pointless.00:06
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kaltsiwhich os are you running alterego.. I already forgot 2007/8 ?00:06
alterego14m's till my SDK is back up :/00:06
alteregoI'm running 2006/7/800:07
konttoriAtarii: yeah, whenever I have the time00:07
alterego2.2, 3.2, 4.000:07
konttoriJust put it to chinook extras00:07
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konttorican anyone with n810 try installing it from here:
kaltsialterego if you want to know what I was talking about, just create yourself a file /etc/apt/sources.list and put some repository there (that you don't already have).. then open the app manager00:08
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alteregokaltsi, the sources.list file is there. It's just empty.00:09
alteregoAnd I'm not denying it has an effect on the system.00:09
shackankonttori: could you anticipate if os2008 includes OProfile support by default?00:10
shackan(since chinhook comes with oprofile-viewer...)00:10
konttorino idea, sorry00:10
kaltsishackan by default no00:11
shackankaltsi: uh, so I'll have to rebuild the kernel? :(00:11
kaltsishackan but the SDK repository has an oprofile enabled kernel that you can install.. read the tools documentation from maemo.org00:11
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shackankaltsi: oh, GREAT00:11
shackankaltsi: thanks, sorry for not stfw00:13
kaltsihehe :)00:13
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* alterego yawns00:14
alteregoNext time I'm not going to break my install by installing the latest SVN of hildon-desktop ..00:14
Igg-manIs os2008 going to be "offically" released for the n800?00:14
kaltsiigg-man: yes00:14
alteregoI think I'll setup a new target maemo-svn-i386 for my pissing around.00:15
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alteregoI'll attempt to compile the desktop from scratch. That'll be interesting.00:15
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* alterego wonders if the N810 will be available in UK tomorrow.00:34
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Igg-manatarii: My packages seem to install good now.  Thanks00:34
pupnik the SDK repository has an oprofile enabled kernel00:35
pupnikthat is interesting00:35
alteregopupnik, sort out your python stuff?00:36
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pupnikstill trying to decide whether or not to release it00:36
alteregoWhat is it?00:36
pupnikdosbox launcher in pygtk00:36
alteregoOf course :)00:36
alteregoSounds like a good idea.00:37
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pupnikyeah it'll launch a game with three stylus taps00:37
alteregoI managed to get desktop plugins working. People can now use Ruby to code home plugins, status bar plugins and task navigator plugins.00:37
pupnikthat's really cool00:38
elbword to ruby00:38
pupnikhow much system space does a ruby install take up?00:38
alteregoI'm gonna start making mini-howtos and posting them on my new maemo blog.00:38
pupnika basic python 2.5 takes over 8 M00:38
alteregoI'm looking into trimming it down.00:39
alteregoI might split up the core and stdlib00:39
alteregoSo people have the option of installing the stdlib00:39
alteregoI might also work on an embedded gem system. Which would work good on the tablets.00:40
pupnikwhat is gem system?00:41
alteregoThat'd stop the need for any of the stdlib and programs could get the specific libraries they need.00:41
alteregoIt's kind of like cpan for ruby00:41
alteregoUnfortunately the current rubygems used in desktop installs doesn't work very well in small devices :/00:41
elbgems are roughly equivalent to eggs00:45
alteregoYou can't make an omlette with eggs00:48
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alteregoAnyone know where the microb compilation instructions are?01:18
alteregoThanks :)01:21
alteregoHmm .. Guess it's broken on chinook then,01:23
doublecthis might help too:
alteregoOh great thanks :)01:25
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YHYHIAMHEREcould anyone tell  me were i could download libgcrypt11 (>=1.2.2) deb as i can use repositrys01:36
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_Monkeyrepositories is  and a searchable index at
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* alterego whistles a little to distract attention from what he's actually doing.01:46
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alterego(that's right .. No one suspects .. )01:48
YHYHIAMHEREsorry but my application manager isint working it freezes so i have to download the .deb files manually iam looking for a couple to run pidgin01:51
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pupnikyou can use wget, if you know the repository and directory01:54
alteregoBargain ..01:55
alteregoruby-maemo now has vte and (hopefully) gtkmozembed01:56
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* alterego contemplates home plugin browser widget01:56
alteregoI've also added a stub for gtkglext ;)01:56
alteregoJust in case ^_^01:57
alteregoWell .. The next item on my todo list is a proper dbus implementation .. That's going to take quite some time me thinks.02:00
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Atariijust to confirm does a normal size SD card work in the 770?02:12
pupnikno, rs-mmc only02:13
lophyte-anyone know if I can use sbrshd on the n800 without the maemo sdk rootfs on the device?02:14
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lophyteor.. is it possible to boot the maemo sdk rootfs from mmc?02:31
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alteregoPossible, yes.02:32
alteregoNot sure if anyone has done it though.02:32
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lophyteseems like that'd be more work than sbrshd02:34
lophytehrm, alright02:38
lophytethis howto seems to imply that I need to use maemo sdk on my n800 to use sbrshd or something02:38
lophyteactually it doesn't imply it.. it explicitly states it02:39
lophyteprerequisites "Device flashed with the maemo developer rootfs"02:39
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YHYHIAMHEREdownload the right deb pack (libgcrypt11) wen i try to install system says incompatable app package02:40
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YHYHIAMHEREdo i need to install via xterm02:40
pupnikdpkg -i <packagename> will install it02:43
YHYHIAMHEREok can i install from mmc02:44
YHYHIAMHEREwith that02:44
pupnikyes, it does not matter where the .deb package is stored02:44
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YHYHIAMHEREnew to linux how to i point to mmc iam used to dos (terrible)02:45
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pupnikyou can type the path in the file specification02:46
pupnikfor e.g.02:46
pupnikdpkg -i /media/mmc1/mypackagename.deb02:46
YHYHIAMHEREthanks brv02:47
pupnikwe might be able to fix your application manager freezes also, if you have a shell open02:47
pupnikyou need to do that as user "root"02:47
YHYHIAMHEREyhyh i do02:47
pupnikok as root, type "apt-get update" and report any errors it gives02:47
unique311_keesj, around?02:48
pupniklast seen 10 hours ago02:48
unique311_!seen keesj02:48
unique311_whats the command for that02:48
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unique311_10 hours i think i the last time i spoke to him.02:49
pupniki was logged on, so i just did a /lastlog keesj02:49
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unique311flashed 3 different OS this morning.  poky, angstrom, and mamona.02:52
pupnikdid you like any of them?02:53
unique311angtrom to user setup, no touchscreen02:53
unique311poky, had issues with the touchscreen. had to press really hard.02:53
unique311which i didn't like.02:53
alteregoWhat device?02:54
lophytehas anyone here used cpu transparency with sbrshd?02:54
unique311now the one with potential.02:54
unique311was mamona.02:54
unique311but seems like you have to setup everything via usbnet02:54
alteregolophyte, why do you want cputransp?02:55
unique311and my knowledge of terminal is ok, not that good02:55
lophyteeh, good point.. I guess I can just ssh into the n800 and it'd do the same thing02:55
pupnikunique311: does mamona have wifi support?02:55
unique311was shocked to see the background wallpaper animation working.02:55
unique311i think all of this need to be setup via usbnet02:56
alteregolophyte, what are you trying to do?02:56
unique311which is the only input method available02:56
lophyteplay around with n800 development on the device itself02:57
unique311keesj was saying the blackbox keyboard could also be use.02:57
lophyteand I'm only using python so I don't think cpu transparency is an issue since its python02:57
pupnikunique311: can you install ITOS debian files on those?02:58
unique311should be.  But mamona has its own repo.  but i'm going to try all this today02:59
unique311turkey homicide day 2morrow, i have plenty of time tonight.02:59
alteregolophyte, you want to develop python apps on your main development machine but watch them execute on your device?03:01
zerojayJust need ssh for that.03:01
alteregossh and sshfs :)03:01
* alterego tweaks the build system.03:01
lophytegood point03:02
alteregoruby-maemo 0.4.0 is a good next release I think.03:02
alteregoI'm pretty proud of it :)03:02
alteregorsvg, gtkmozembed, vte, cairo hildon-desktop plugins (home, status, navigator)03:03
alteregoIf only I could get the sucker to build ^_^03:03
alteregoMy global build script keeps burning up.03:03
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pupnikit's going to be kitten homicide here soon if doesn't start carrying the N81003:07
alteregoAs long as I get it before sept I'm happy.03:07
alteregoDecember sorry ..03:08
alteregoThink I've fixed it ..03:11
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* alterego watches as the magickal compilation process unfolds.03:14
alteregobuilt! :)03:16
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lophyteoops wrong window03:21
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YHYHIAMHEREinstalling libopencdk8 under xterm it errors saying dependancy error03:30
pupnikthat usually means you have to install something else first03:32
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YHYHIAMHEREhold on03:37
YHYHIAMHEREtryin again03:37
alteregoI forgot to add the plugin loader &_&03:42
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pupnikis there any way to prevent the Open file dialog from scanning subdirectories?  I am irritated by having to wait 3-9 seconds whenever i drill down into a subdirectory (nokia 770 on mmc with default kernel)04:01
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lopzhola :P04:37
MaemotthHaha finally got pidgin working starting to understand how this all works thanks guys04:39
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pupnikthis launcher will take 160kb vs 8+MB for the python version04:49
woekeleis klaatu a regular here?04:50
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SyntraHeck yes05:40
SyntraOrdered a Refurbed Apple Wireless Keyboard from Apple05:40
pupniki hate it when after 12 hours the code starts to jiggle and twitch in front of my eyes05:42
SyntraUhh, I think you might need a break?05:42
pupnikdon't know when i'll be motivated to work on this again though05:45
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lophytewhere is this '05:55
lophytewhere is this 'maemo-usbnet-chooser' app?05:55
lophyteI can't find it anywhere05:55
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mariorzim trying to find osso-xterm 0.13.mh1806:06
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K`zanSince one can't set power level by connection, does the power saving automatically reduce the WIFI power out depending on need - thus leaving it set at 100mW and if the WAP is 5' away, it would automatically reduce power as needed?06:41
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K`zanReason I asked is that I seemed to get just over 2 hours out of the battery today in the first run-it-down and see how long it lasts exercise.06:42
K`zanHere at home 10mw might be fine, out in the world, dunno...06:42
pupnikthere are a few tweaks you can do for wlan power, sleepiness, wakeyness06:45
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zerojayAnyone else seem to think that Planet's broken?07:03
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K`zanWhich planet?07:07
K`zanEarth does indeed seem a bit rocky from time to time...07:07
K`zanpupnik: Will get to those :).07:08
K`zanDid figure out what is wrong with the WAP, it insists on giving out itself as the gateway, which it isn't.  Not sure that can be fixed.07:09
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pupnik_hhahaha the communist video response to thoughtfix contest is pretty funny07:23
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|Rpupnik_ : hehe it's my fav :)07:33
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* pupnik_ hits refresh on nokia.de07:36
pupnik_nope - they're not working at 6:30 on a monday07:36
pupnik_well I am.07:36
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pupnik_"learning hildon/gtk by osmosis"07:54
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pupnik_nice entries08:09
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pupnik_  Vote for the N810 winner for Thoughtfix's N810 promo giveaway!08:26
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unique311<pupnik_> "learning hildon/gtk by osmosis"   link?08:47
pupnik_hehe just snuffling through other ppl's source code08:49
pupnik_and picking up pieces here and there08:49
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K`zanNight folks!09:03
L0cutus'morning !09:03
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_Monkeyhola, mariorz09:09
_Monkeyque tal, mariorz09:09
* czr has to shave, true.09:14
mariorzmy python 2.4 runtime seesm to not be installed by the package manager09:15
mariorzhow woild i go about removing it to install 2.509:15
mariorzon the 77009:16
mariorzany linkage?09:18
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pupnikapt-get remove python*09:38
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mariorzpupnik: thhanks, Im getting resource temp unavailable.. another process using i... i've unistalleb about every app except for the xterm, openssh and some font libs.. still get that error09:50
mariorzerr nvm python 2.4 seems to be removed09:53
mariorzjus getteing a dependency wiht a osso-thumbnail9 0.5 fix, is there another rep for libs like this?09:53
czrfor some reason I'm always thinking snatchbox when writing scratchbox..09:57
pupniksorry dunno that library mariorz - check gronmayer10:00
_Monkeyrepositories is, like,  and a searchable index at
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mariorzehh apperantly adding on of those repos did it, tried installing 2.5 again adn didnt prompt for the error10:08
mariorzits downloading :D10:09
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JaffaMorning, all10:40
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JaffaIs planet updating yet?10:47
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* czr bands head against wall10:59
X-FadeJaffa: It should begin updating again in the next hour..10:59
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JaffaX-Fade: what was the problem, out of interest? It's odd for a site to go up and down so frequently out-of-hours and then be broken?11:06
X-FadeJaffa: cron died :)11:06
kulvewhat kind of system gets it's cron dead?11:09
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X-FadeI have no idea, that something for the administrators to find out ;)11:11
JaffaX-Fade: doh11:11
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joshtcharacters other than ctrl?  What syntax do I use?11:14
joshthmmm, that should have started with "in maemo's xterm, how do I use non-alphabetic ...11:15
joshtHow in shortcuts, I mean.11:16
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:18
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felipechuomenta AD-N77011:24
timelyxoh good11:25
* timelyx goes to work11:25
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X-FadeJaffa: Ok, flood gates are opened ;) Lots of new items...11:33
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unique311lots of new items?11:39
czrhmm. is there a nice page giving the official hw specs for N810 somewhere?11:42
JaffaX-Fade: cool11:42
timelyxczr? any idea who's supposed to push pataches into the kernel?11:43
czrtimelyx, hmm. apt-cache show kernel-headers and send email to the maintainer?11:43
czrat least they'll know. I don't.11:43
* timelyx pretends not to have a device11:44
timelyxcan you answer the apt-cache bit? :)11:44
czrok, let me see11:44
czror I could say "google" like you do ;-)11:44
czrtry yauheni.kaliuta@nokia.com11:45
* timelyx knows him11:45
czrI know him only via email11:46
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* timelyx grumbles11:48
* timelyx kicks the reporter11:48
timelyxthen read the original bug report11:48
timelyxthere's no mention in of the garage report. nor is there mention that the kernel clearly doesn't support it11:49
czrwell. I think "they" think that since .jp isn't a market area, all bugs related to .jp can/will be ignored11:49
* czr shrugs11:50
X-FadeHmmm: I guess that is the problem when a devices grows wider. Can't reach the keys with your thumbs ;)
czrtimelyx, but yeah, I agree.11:50
timelyxczr: i'd like people to be taught not to file shitty bug reports11:50
timelyxtaking a bug which had lots of relevant information11:50
czrtimelyx, pay them money :-)11:50
timelyxand stripping all of that, only to refile in another place11:50
* czr hides & runs11:50
timelyxand then making me waste *my* time / money to investigate things they already knew...11:50
timelyxczr: no shirt for you11:51
czrI already have a shirt, thanks anyway ;-)11:51
czrbeats any nokia/maemo t-shirt hands-down :-)11:51
czrand yes, the shirt is truly as scary as in the picture.11:52
czrhmm. what does it mean to have: "Smooth slide with integrated QWERTY keyboard"11:52
czr(from N810 hw spec page)11:52
czrit means the keyboard is an additional bonus to the slider thingy?11:52
timelyx ? :)11:53
czror maybe it means that having a keyboard now equals to getting better slide action in other contexts11:53
czrI don't have flash though. but the slogan pretty much says it all :-)11:53
* timelyx doesn't have flash either11:54
czris the  Nokia Maps BP-4L battery 1500mA?11:54 -11:54
czrhmm. isn't it supposed to be 1500mAh?11:54
timelyxoutput v. output time?11:54
czrI have no idea. the material now currently says that there's a 1500mA battery in 770 and 80011:55
czrjust wondering whether that's even a valid unit to measure battery "size"11:55
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czrand wtf is Nokia Maps anyway.11:56
timelyxnothing probably?11:56
timelyxthe 2008 os includes an app called Map, not Maps11:56
* czr nods11:56
* timelyx wants to stab someone for misspelling maps11:56
timelyxassuming you're talking about tablets11:56
timelyxthe phones ship a maps app11:57
czrgrep for battery:11:57
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czrwhat is a nokia maps battery anyway :-)11:57
timelyxmine says:11:57
timelyx+-o 3.7V11:57
timelyxand it has a pretty hologram11:58
timelyxwhich i will not try to reproduce in ASCII11:58
czr"genuine microsoft"11:58
czrI'm too afraid to open the cover in mine11:58
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czrthe back cover feels a littly flimsy11:58
czrlittle even11:58
* timelyx ponders11:59
timelyxif you were making a product primarily for the  USA11:59
timelyxwhere would you stick English in a list?11:59
czrhmm. does nokia support external gps receivers with 770?11:59
timelyxsearch "User interface languages"11:59
timelyxczr: sure11:59
czrI know the 2008 does with N80011:59
timelyxwell, for some messed up definition of support12:00
timelyxit works fine w/ maemomapper12:00
czrI'm looking for official support. not community provided.12:00
kulvenokia doesn't support 77012:00
timelyxwell, you can buy the nokia maps bundle for the 77012:00
timelyxit included a bt gps12:00
czrah, ok.12:00
timelyxnot sure if you can still *find* that12:00
timelyxbut if you can, then "sure" it "supports bt gps"12:01
* czr nods12:01
czrI'm updating the hw spec comparison chart12:01
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timelyxgoogle: 770 navigation site:nokia.com12:01
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czrok. great.12:01
timelyxwhich chart?12:02
czrtimelyx, for the training material12:03
czrI doubt it has passed your eyes12:03
czror maybe it has, /me shrugs12:03
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timelyxi think i've had offers to look12:05
timelyxi can't remember if i decided to look12:06
* czr nods12:06
czrthat's prolly the 3.2 material anyway12:06
czrworking on a 4.0 update now12:06
timelyxi think i've had offers for both actually12:06
czrhmm. I only released the 4.0 one yesternight12:06
czror rather, one part of it12:06
timelyxok, then not that one :)12:06
* czr nods12:06
timelyxthere are too many things floating around12:06
timelyxif you want a proofer, give me a weekend12:06
czrVFP FTW12:06
czrheh. sure. the material is large though :-)12:07
czrtargetted at the beginner level, doesn't assume GTK+ experience what-so-ever.12:07
timelyxthat's fine12:07
timelyxbut, i'll figure it out from context12:07
czrmore eyes = better12:07
timelyxand if at some point it seems to have a different bent, i'll slap you for it :)12:07
timelyxseriously, that's how i read... build mental model, and when things don't fit, complain12:08
czrthat's fine12:08
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rothielHi all12:08
czrI seriously don't think that the material has gotten proper review even once12:08
timelyxi wouldn't doubt it12:08
timelyxmost of the stuff i look at should be in final condition (because it's *published*)12:09
timelyxbut i find basic errors on most pages12:09
czrtimelyx, the whole process has more or less looked like this:
* timelyx rotfl12:10
* timelyx misses dilbert12:10
timelyxwell, unless office=dilbert12:10
timelyxin which case, i miss permission to laugh at dilbert12:10
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czr4.0 builds for ARMv6, right?12:14
kulveby default? probably not12:14
czrhmm. ARMv5 then?12:14
kulveprobably yes12:14
timelyxnot sure12:15
timelyxprobably best to look at how glibc or the other evil things work12:15
czrheh. I'll just see what the reviewers will say then ;-). leaving at ARMv512:15
timelyxthey either hint at forcing or not forcing12:15
kulvesame packages may of cource have options to compile for armv6, but the toolchain builds for armv5 unless said otherwise12:15
czrhmm. so building against ARMv6 is possible, and the executables will run on 2420?12:16
kulveor with -march12:16
czrwon't the ABI break or anything?12:17
kulveI think not.. -march says which instruction set to use, not how to build up APIs (or something)12:18
czrhmm. ok12:18
czrthanks kulve12:18
kulvefloating point and thumb stuff is also interesting, when compiling for armv612:19
kulve(with vfp)12:19
timelyxit only means you can't run them on cpus that don't support whichever12:19
czryup. lardman told me how to use that12:19
czrtimelyx, well, running the stuff on 770 would be hard anyway12:19
czrat least I think it would.12:20
kulverunning what stuff?12:20
czrstuff that would be built for ARMv612:20
kulveyeah, they won't run on armv512:20
suihkulokkithe main reason current toolchain doesn't default to armv6 is that armv6 support to qemu landed in very recently (as in last week)12:20
czrthat and different lib versions and everything.12:20
czrsuihkulokki, ah.12:20
kulvesuihkulokki: but sbrsh has existed and works just fine :)12:21
* timelyx frowns12:21
suihkulokkikulve: yeah, but you don't want to expose a average #maemo hacker to setting up sbrsh to real device :P12:21
kulveI don't? :)12:22
suihkulokkiwell.. I don't know how sadistic you are :)12:22
tsavolait used to be easier for 77012:23
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kaltsieven I could do it so it shouldn't be that hard12:23
czrhmm. how much of the internal flash is used when N810 ships?12:23
suihkulokkimore moving pieces -> more things that can be broken12:23
czrany ball-bark figures?12:23
czrsuihkulokki, more interesting positions the pieces may fall into when things break too :-)12:24
czr"oh, that looks interesting"-kind of thingies.12:24
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colinlhi! Is there anyone here with IT OS 2008 and a few minutes to test a Claws Mail's .install and packages?12:27
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JaffaX-Fade: is it known within the admins that karma's now entirely disappeared?12:45
JaffaOh, no - seems to just be me.12:45
kulveJaffa: and me12:45
X-FadeJaffa: There is a daily recount. Could be that that is running right now.12:46
kulveX-Fade: it's been broken for the whole weekend at least12:46
X-Fadekulve: Sure, as cron hasn't been running ;)12:46
JaffaX-Fade: all my profile info's gone too:
X-FadeShould automagically fix itself when the job is done..12:47
JaffaETA? I'll hold off raising a bug until then.12:48
X-FadeYep. Recount == whipe account stats and regenerate..12:48
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JaffaNo, but it's not just the stats, it's also "personal website" etc.12:49
JaffaProfile picture's gone - the whole thing is empty.12:49
X-FadeHmm true..12:49
X-Fadebergie: Any ideas?12:49
Jaffa now raised :)12:50
bergieX-Fade: yes... it seems the user export from Garage produced a feed with lots of users missing12:54
bergieso the users were marked as removed12:54
bergieand then next export created new user records12:54
JaffaSounds fairly fatal.12:56
bergieJaffa: no data was deleted so we can recover12:56
X-Fadebergie: garage was down this weekend for some time. Maybe that is why the userfeed was empty ;)12:57
bergiethe gforge exporter will need some auditing, though12:57
bergieX-Fade: could be, yes12:57
Jaffabergie: cool - although it's only a few URLs and a picture, I'm a lazy individual :)12:57
bergieJaffa: it is a bit more than that... favs, dev program etc12:58
bergieJaffa: now they all belong to "your former self"... we just need to reassign them to the active account12:58
Jaffabergie: ah, good point. ta.12:59
X-FadeJaffa: You got cloned over the weekend ;) But something went horribly wrong. Frankenstein style...13:00
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JaffaX-Fade: bound to be an improvement, TBH13:08
czrhmm. is Xomap based on Kdrive?13:09
czror regular build?13:09
X-Fadeczr: kdrive, iirc.13:09
* czr nods13:09
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inzczr, in mistral the source for xserver-xomap was xserver-kdrive, in bora it was xserver-xorg13:21
czrinz, yes, but that doesn't answer the question :-)13:22
inzczr, sure it doesn't13:22
czrpackaging changed also in ubuntu, but that's not really significant :-)13:22
czrsame happened with xephyr too13:22
czr(it's also a kdrive version)13:22
czrI'll go with kdrive13:23
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Andy80hi all13:58
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woekelehi Andy8014:03
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timelesshello world14:46
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lardmanhello timeless14:46
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Spakmandoes osso-xterm-advanced run on 2008OS?14:57
inzOnly if you compile it yourself14:57
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czrjust fyi :-)14:58
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Spakmanthanks inz - what about another terminal program?15:01
timelessczr: why didn't you file that in Desktop?15:03
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czrtimeless, I have no idea15:03
* timeless looks for a cluebat15:03
czrif you find it, do tell me.15:03
timelessi think i need an apropriately well padded cluebat15:04
timelessyou're too valuable for a rock solid one15:04
czrcan it also be pink and fluffy?15:04
* czr needs some tender loving15:04
lardmanSpakman: there's one built in, scroll down one of the menus15:04
lardmanSpakman: utilities I think15:04
timelessthe ones i usually stock tend to be yellow and spongy, but i might be able to soak it in bubble gum...15:04
czrtimeless, sound promising15:04
timelesscotton candy would probably be better i suppose15:05
timelesswill you move it? :)15:05
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inzczr, surprise surprise15:06
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inzSpakman, I think 2008 includes a terminal by default15:06
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czrtimeless, I wouldn't know where to. maybe it's better someone more clueful will move it.15:07
timelessyes it does15:07
lardmanAnyone have any thoughts or pointers to the map data format on OS2008?15:07
czrotherwise I'll break my "submit under most unlikely category"-streak.15:07
timelessczr: Desktop/Task Navigator doesn't sound reasonable?15:07
suihkulokkilardman: khexedit15:07
czrtimeless, it's not TN15:07
lardmansuihkulokki: indeed, that's the next stop after asking if anyone else has started :)15:07
timelessfwiw, os2007 for the same search does not show xterm15:07
timeless(cross references are nice)15:08
* timeless ponders15:08
timelessi wonder if i could tarball */debian/* and publish that15:08
timelessfrom itos2005/2006/2007/200815:08
timelessit shouldn't have anything confidential15:08
czranyhow, time for shower and some food.15:08
timelessand it's actually useful for answering questions such as these15:09
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Spakmanthanks inz15:10
suihkulokkitimeless: do you know a) when mozilla 1.9 is coming out b) if trunk already has necessary patches to run on arm eabi15:11
Andy80any news about the N810 availability day on the online shops?15:11
lardmansuihkulokki: navit looks pretty interesting, esp if the built-in maps could be used15:11
timelessa. no15:11
timelessb. sorry, i'm currently in debian hell15:11
suihkulokkilardman: ? I noticed it yes.15:11
timelessi'll get back to you when i exit15:11
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lardmansuihkulokki: yep. I didn't realise the openstreetmap data contained road speeds and direction info for the routing15:13
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bergielardman: depends how well a road is tagged, of course15:21
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lardmanbergie: yes, I just didn't realise those sorts of tags were being added15:24
lardmanbergie: but all good :)15:24
* lardman is interested in routing algorithms for some obscure reason15:25
bergielardman: well, OSM is a bit of a jungle... there are lots of recommended tags ( but whether map authors use them is another question...15:25
bergiebut as more apps use OSM data for routing the quality of the data is bound to improve15:26
lardmanI'll have to grab an editor and see how well populated the places I need to visit are15:26
bergieand don't forget that you can fix any faulty data you run into :-)15:27
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suihkulokkian application that gathers gps data and lets you edit OSM directly from the tablet would be really cool15:27
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suihkulokki..apparently maemo mapper already does that15:29
bergiesuihkulokki: we've been talking about that15:29
bergiesuihkulokki: that is just track logging (an important step, of course), not actual map editing15:30
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bergieour idea was to build something like this:
lardmandifficult I imagine making sure the speed limits and road names are set at the correct positions15:31
bergielardman: you tag road segments15:32
lardmanbergie: I know, but doing it on the move I mean15:32
bergielardman: yep, that would need some tuning15:32
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lardmanroad names are a pita as they are difficult to see from the driver's seat, speed limits ought to be quite easy - perhaps use the actual speed data and average over lots of different sets of data from a given road15:33
lardmanor have the driver say the limit and convert it to a tag15:33
X-Fadelardman: Or just drive at the allowed speed ;)15:34
bergieyou can have a co-pilot doing this stuff15:34
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lardmanX-Fade: well yeah, you could do that, but I was thinking more of the other case when you're stuck behind a tractor making a derestricted road into a 15mph version ;)15:34
lardmanbergie: yes15:35
X-Fadelardman: Well ok, there is that problem :)15:35
bergie...or just stop (and ensure your car has a proper warning like
* lardman could have done with some geoclue integration in London at the weekend to find the closest pub serving chips15:40
bergielardman: feel free to hack :-)15:40
lardmanit's deciding what will actually be useful15:41
lardmanor expandable I suppose15:41
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lardmanbut it's certainly doable if you have a list - toptable for example does restaurants, it would be possible to grab the list and then allow searches and position to be displayed15:42
* X-Fade plans to include firealarms for firefighters on an openstreetmap on N810 as a test for a chemical company...15:42
lardmanSounds interesting15:43 has AFAIK a downloadable DB of restaurants in helsinki15:43
bergiewith geotags15:43
X-FadeLive alarms that is..15:43
NeoStriderhey folks15:43
lardmanbergie: that's one of the problems, lots of these lists are city dependant, which means you'd have to autoswitch or not have coverage for lots of people15:43
bergielardman: or just decide to support GeoRSS and then enable people to add whatever restaurant feeds they find15:44
bergiethat could be done actually just with the GeoRSS2POI script we hacked with ajturner for downloading GeoRSS and putting the data to maemo mapper15:44
bergiethe script would need a bit of love and a nice UI though15:45
lardmanI'll have a read about geoRSS15:45
lardmanneed lunch now though, bbl15:45
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Spakmananyone know if initfs_flash works with OS2008?16:11
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Takgreetings pantomaemes!16:16
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lophytehey all16:46
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lardmanI'd been thinking that maemo hadn't changed for a long time, but when I scroll down the news I see new items. Not sure this ranking posts works all that well17:00 that is17:01
keesjand also the garage news is gone , that one changed a lot17:02
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Spakmananyone know how I can get esfsprogs on OS2008?17:03
lardmanis it not in the repo?17:06
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SpakmanI can't seem to find it :(17:08
Spakmanlardman - which repository did you find it in?17:11
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lardmanSpakman: not sure for os2008, but for os2007 it was in the sdk repo17:17
Spakmanah, I was in blue pill mode. Thanks lardman17:19
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timeless"esfsprogs" is not in chinook:debian/control17:34
Spakmantimeless - I found it in at (red pill mode)17:38
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Andy80just a quick question about N810... in wich part of it is located the integrated microphone? like the one N770 has in the bottom...18:01
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JaffaAndy80: middle of the front at the top, AFAIK18:20
Andy80Jaffa: thanks :) I asked because I watched some videos on youtube, showing the hardware, and mic was not mentioned :S18:21
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rhykinso does anyone know if the wireless improved (capability with EAP-TLS) in OS2008?18:42
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* |R just got his M120019:20
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* lardman wonders what an M1200 is19:26
|Roh, a BT GPS :)19:27
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lardmanah, good good19:27
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linuxkrnhey all, I was wondering if anyone knew if the n810 will be able to hold a miniSD internally without having it sticking out?  Or would you need the microSD to do that?19:27
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johntokashlinuxkrn, the minisd card will not stick out19:29
sp3000heh, I knew that photo would mislead someone :)19:29
johntokashif you use a microsd card, you'll need to put it in a minisd adapter19:30
linuxkrnah, couldn't tell from specs if it would hold the entire mini card.19:30
johntokashtypically, microsd cards come with an SD adapter, so be careful if you are buying micro sd19:30
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linuxkrnso if I read them correctly, it supports 4 mini SD cards?19:30
johntokash1 mini sd card19:30
johntokashup to 4 gigabytes19:30
johntokash(although, I hear it will work with an 8gb micro sdhc in a mini sd adapter)19:31
linuxkrnnah, it says 8 GB supported, and I was sure I read it had 4 slots19:31
johntokashtrust me: 1 slot19:31
linuxkrnSupports cards up to 8GB. (SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.)19:31
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linuxkrnwell I can't even find 8gb miniSD cards. :-/19:32
gla55_one slot,
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johntokashI, too, have not found an 8gb miniSD card.  You can use an 8gb microsd card in a minisd slot, but I think those are only class 2, so slow.19:32
johntokashnewegg has a class 6 4gb minisd(hc) card.  I ordered that19:33
linuxkrnyeah, that's the biggest I can find19:33
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linuxkrnbut the card won't extrude from the n810 (miniSD) right?19:34
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linuxkrnI assume most of that 2GB internal storage is going to be taken by maps, any idea how much?19:35
johntokashI've been told 1.5GB if you have all of US installed19:36
K`zanDunno, but the Maps for western US was 868MB, dunno how MaemoMapper works out yet.19:36
johntokashThis is the 4GB I bought:
K`zanMaps - the app that came with the 81019:37
johntokashNote the 'class 6' under specifications.  Fast!19:37
linuxkrnjohntokash: same one I was looking at19:37
linuxkrnSo then the 810 comes with a CD of maps and you install what you need?19:37
linuxkrnbecause I'd love to have both America and Asia-Pacific, maybe on different cards if that's possible19:38
linuxkrnwow, no ogg (vorbis) audio support.  That's a bit surprising19:40
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johntokashlinuxkrn: I read somewhere that ogg was supported.  Maybe just in the libraries19:40
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linuxkrnwell I can't wait to test it out, have a pre-order so won't know until ships.  Didn't get approved for the n810 dev program. :(19:41
linuxkrnNo one else has them in stock yet, do they?19:42
Andy80why HildonFileChooserDialog is not listed in the API docs? -->
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johntokashlinuxkrn: As far as I know, the only place that has them in stock is the Nokia stores in Chicago and New York.19:43
* linuxkrn debates driving 18 hours to get one. :p19:43
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lardmanlinuxkrn: you download the maps you need, but I think it should come pre-installed on a per-area basis19:51
linuxkrnspecs don't say, but I assume it's a single touch screen, not multi.  Correct?19:51
linuxkrnlardman: download from nokia website?19:51
lardmanI've no idea where they are downloaded from, just that they are19:51
bstock_are the 810's for sale yet?19:52
lardmanlinuxkrn: the maps application does the downloading for you19:52
linuxkrnlardman: ah, I see.  You wouldn't know about region restrictions would ya? :)19:52
lardmanlinuxkrn: No, sorry19:52
linuxkrnbstock_: has them for pre-order19:52
linuxkrnlardman: no problem.  Just wondering.19:53
lardmantake a look on itt, people have been experimenting with the N800 OS2008 image19:53
TakI would be amazed if they were multitouch19:54
linuxkrnTak: one can hope. :)19:54
linuxkrnso much information on the net seems wrong, I've seen everything from onboard FM *transmitter* to 4x miniSD slots (32GB max)19:54
bill20r3wait, it doesn't have lasers?19:55
linuxkrnI'm still not clear on the on-board memory.  It says "Max User Storage: 2GB", does that mean it comes with a 2GB miniSD card?19:55
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linuxkrnbill20r3: only sharks have lasers, duh. :)19:57
Takmultitouch lasers20:00
lardmanor genetically mutated seabass iirc20:00
Takfor ripping multiple sectors of a CD in parallel20:00
linuxkrnJust wait for the n950, it will have a neural interface.20:00
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Jaffabergie: any comment on how long "a while" is on #2321? I've got an updated bugzilla count in my karma now, but everything else is still blank20:01
ol_schoolalinuxkrn: trust us. it has 2Gig onboard (inside, not removeable) and a miniSD slot. got it?20:02
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linuxkrnol_schoola: um, I only asked about the internal storage once.20:03
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linuxkrninternal meaning on-board20:03
linuxkrnand in any event, no need to be rude.20:04
ol_schoolasorry, short fuse IRL at the moment, just re-read the logs again, my bad. apo9logize for the co9llateral damage20:05
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ol_schoolaif it helps, i'm in chicago20:06
linuxkrnDid you get a n810 already?20:06
ol_schoolano, my 800 arrived last week20:06
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linuxkrnah, the 800 supports os2008 too, if I recall correctly20:07
ol_schoolamine seems to ;)20:07
lardmankills battery though20:08
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ol_schoolai do miss all the application goodness of '07, even after only a week20:08
linuxkrncan you download the os2008 and run it on the sdk?20:08
ol_schoolaand battery has been raped, yes20:08
linuxkrnol_schoola: doesn't the 810 have LCD brightness features missing on the 80020:08
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lardmanol_schoola: turning off the scrolling rss makes responsiveness better20:08
keesjis there some warez site whern I can download it2008?20:08
K`zanOne more app in the 2008 repos than there was yesterday :-)20:08
lardmankeesj: Look at ITT20:08
ol_schoolalardman: rss scrolling? i'm draeing a blank20:09
lardmanthe applet20:09
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lardmanon the main screen, but if you've disabled it anyway then don;t worry20:09
ol_schoolaoh, it's gone, killed right at the start20:09
* lardman needs to reboot to Linux, brb20:10
K`zanI stand corrected - 2 more :-)20:10
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ol_schoolathe touch algos are definately WAY different then the las release of boara i noticed20:10
ol_schoolai'm certainly willing to trade battery time for the cpu bump20:11
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lophyteey all20:20
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lardmananyone happen to know what __arch_copy_to_user() is now called?20:24
lardmanundefined kernel symbol20:24
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lardmanCould someone running OS2007 on an n800 tell me whether this gives any output please?: cat /proc/kallsyms | grep arch_copy20:41
Atariistupid nokia 810 walkthrough, i should never have watched it, now i want one sooooo bad!20:41
* lardman keeps checking the Nokia online shop on the off chance they're available yet... :)20:42
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Atariiworst thing is, now is probably the best time to sell my 770; just before christmas and when they are still worth an average amount20:43
linuxkrnI'm installing the sdk (it's downloading atm), does it include os2008 in the sdk?20:43
lardmanno, you have to look on itt if you want to see that info20:43
lophytehow much are the 810s going for?20:44
linuxkrn450 at buy.com20:44
lardmanthey're not yet20:44
linuxkrn479 from nokia, IIRC20:44
lophyteshould've waited20:44
lophyteI paid 299 for my 800 from Dell20:45
lophyte2 days later they were down to 24820:45
lophyte249, rather20:45
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linuxkrncrap, it wants my 12digit product id to download os2008. :(20:48
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mgedminyou can find it in control panel -> device -> about20:50
mgedminit's the same as the wifi mac address, fwiw20:50
linuxkrndon't have my 810 yet (pre-ordered)20:50
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lardmanassuming you have an n810 that is20:51
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mgedminare the n810s available in the US yet?20:51
linuxkrnI was told they are in nokia stores, and pre-order at some websites20:51
linuxkrnotherwise, the ETA listed on a few sites is 24-26th of this month20:52
lardman:) my kernel module symbol redefinitions appear to have worked, now to try insmod....20:52
linuxkrnso without a n810, I can I do any dev work in the sdk?20:54
mgedminyou don't need the OS image for the SDK20:54
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mariorz_i just got a770, you guys recommend i upgrade to os2007?20:57
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lophyteis it possible to write statusbar applets in python?21:00
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Takmariorz_: I would21:01
Takheh - actually, I did21:01
Atariisame here21:02
Atariinow looking into gettin flash 9 working (groan!)21:02
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mariorz_Tak: cool, will do,is it imortant i get another card to do the dual boot or,just gomwith 2007?21:04
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mariorz_its stable fromwhat ive been rading, no?21:05
X-Fadelardman: And? Did it work? :)21:05
TakI run mine directly on the device; your mileage may vary21:05
Takif you don't like it, you can always reflash the latest OS200621:05
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linuxkrnlooks like someone did a ogg package for 2008, but doesn't add support to built in player.  I assume maybe ukmp or kagu might play them then.21:07
sxpertabout the N810, is it possible to get it with a US keyboard ? I don't want a stupid azerty french keyboard :-(21:09
X-Fadesxpert: I think if you talk to the Nokia direct guys, you can..21:10
sxpertcause I am one of the happy few, and would like the US keyboard :-)21:11
sxpert'cept I'm obviously registered as fr...21:11
X-Fadesxpert: Hehe, I can't blame you.21:11
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linuxkrnneed a nes emulator for the 810, is might port it if no-one else is working on it.21:13
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mariorz_would it be possible to run android on this things or am i talking nonsense?21:13
gla55_mariorz_: possibly21:14
linuxkrnCan 2008 run older OS apps?21:14
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bedboihi there.21:17
bedboiis there any hildon widget for "yes" "no" dialogs?21:17
bedboilike gpe_ask_question21:17
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Atariibought a retractable charger today for my 770 from poundland, win!21:19
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linuxkrnnot sure what the car chargers go for, but I usually make them.  Cost about $7-10 in parts.21:20
Taklinuxkrn: there's fceu already -
linuxkrnTak: that's "arcade" games, not NES21:21
Takxmame is, but fceu is nes21:21
penguinbaitfceu is NES21:21
linuxkrnah, you just linked to xmame. :)21:22
Takthey share a garage project21:22
penguinbaitlast I tried very slow, but it was a long time ago21:22
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linuxkrncan't imagen why, NES was like 8bit 2Mhz processor. lol21:24
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penguinbaitI think because nobody optimizes code anymore, the buy faster processors21:25
linuxkrnvery true21:26
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tigertembedded makes people think again21:27
czrpenguinbait, that's because no one appreciates fast code :-)21:27
tigertalthough I bet it has a big impact on battery life on laptops too21:28
tigertdepending what apps actually do all the time21:28
tigertor loop, fast21:28
tigertas many do21:28
czror execute inefficient algorithms or 20 functions deep callchains (GTK+)21:28
tigertor check if all the icons are still there :)21:28
czrand fail.. :-)21:28
czrtigert, you want to fix my problem with task navigator? :-)21:29
tigertwhat is that?21:29
linuxkrnthe 810 is a 400Mhz arm cpu right?21:29
mariorz_what do you guys wrte apps for this in? python?21:29
penguinbait800 and 810 same CPU21:29
czrtigert, bug 231321:29
_MonkeyBug 2313 might be found at
penguinbait388 bogomips21:29
czrlinuxkrn, OS2008 will run the CPU at 400 max21:30
czrboth N800 and N81021:30
czrpenguinbait, low battery? :-)21:30
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penguinbaitmy tabletpc is 3194 bogomips21:30
tigertkaltsi: ping? :)21:30
linuxkrnczr: but that cpu?  Specs: don't say21:30
czrvery bogoful :-)21:30
czrlinuxkrn, omap 2420, same as n80021:31
linuxkrnczr: thanks, do we have spec sheets for supported instruction sets?21:31
tigertczr: wow21:31
tigertkaltsi: #231321:31
czrplus vfp and something else21:31
tigertsee above21:31
Takmariorz_: c, python, ruby21:31
penguinbaitvfp and thumb21:32
kaltsitigert ah yeah.. eek21:32
tigertyea, weird21:32
lardmanlinuxkrn: there's a manual on the arm site21:32
czrlinuxkrn, ARM1136 core with TMS320C55x DSP21:32
penguinbaitanyone use thumb?21:32
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czrpenguinbait, I use mine every day :-)21:32
tigertman, I need to fix plankton now that the os2008 screenshots are public21:32
czrkaltsi, tigert, you can thank me later :-)21:32
czrkaltsi, tigert, also, since you're in a helpful and receptive mood, bug 2322 :-)21:33
_MonkeyBug 2322 might be found at
mariorz_Tak: cool, been wanting to peak up ruby, ruby+gtk?21:33
kaltsiI'm grumpy and old21:33
czralthough fixing that would require re-engineering something :-)21:33
tigertczr: I am in post-taxfree mood21:33
tigertczr: gin and toblerone21:33
czrtigert, I pity you fool!21:33
czrunless I get some too :-)21:33
tigertI think I need to stop consuming one of these21:34
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tigertthey dont quite mix21:34
czrheh. you put the toblerone in the gin?21:34
tigertno21:34 that a question? ;-)21:34
tigertjust eat a bit and it didnt quite taste that great with the other stuff21:34
czrTak, post tax-free as well? :-)21:34
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kaltsiI bet that hello-world thingy belongs to sdk bugs but the other one doesn't21:35
czrkaltsi, I've been too afraid at attempting that on a device21:35
czrI could. but..21:35
mariorz_tigert: you used to have a homepage with awesome gnome bakgrounds some years ago didnt you?21:35
czrthe world would explode and dragons fly out of nose and such.21:35
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Takczr: I'm missing some context necessary to parse that question.21:36
* Tak stupid american21:36
czrTak, what kind of context would you like?21:36
czrI have red and blue context available. blue is slightly used.21:36
tigertmariorz_: yeah21:36
lardmanaarg, another Unknown symbol error21:36
penguinbaitI dont know what I am missing, but it appears to be alot :)21:36
tigertmariorz_: I think they could be found from
TakI will have transparent context or nothing!21:37
kaltsiwho writes bug reports like that?.. where's the old: "NOTIFICATION DONT WORK!".. I miss those21:37
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czrTak, if blue little used context painted transparent ok?21:37
czrkaltsi, I can write that too! :-)21:37
sxperthmm. I installed the newer scratchbox, but I am having issues with it21:37
lardman~lart me for a typo21:38
* infobot sends a legion of lawyers after lardman's head for a typo21:38
czralthough I have much better idea for the subject "MAEMO 2008 NO WORK"21:38
Takczr: For great context!21:38
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kaltsiwe get signal?21:38
czrheh tak21:38
czr"catching the great signal from the sky"21:38
lardmanNokia-N800-:/home/user# lsmod21:39
lardmanModule                  Size  Used by21:39
lardmanpvr 71828 0 - Live 0xbf058000 (PF)21:39
lardmang_file_storage 27528 0 - Live 0xbf05000021:39
lardmancx3110x 56200 0 - Live 0xbf04100021:39
lardmanumac 258788 1 cx3110x, Live 0xbf000000 (P)21:39
czrpeople seem all too jolly in mood tonight. what's wrong with you?21:39
lardmannote the first line21:39
X-Fadelardman: Sweet ;)21:39
mariorz_tigert: cool, loved those, used to keep my dektop synced to your screenshot lol, alas moved to osx for desktop21:39
czrlardman, oo21:39
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X-Fadelardman: Now how to test if is does anything :)21:39
lardmanit's a good question21:40
czrmodprobe -r? :-)21:40
sxperttrying to install the sdk gives21:40
Takso...has anyone tried fceu or xmame on chinook?21:40
czrit it bricks the device -> for great context.21:40
sxpertE: Scratchbox home directory '/scratchbox/users/sxpert/home/sxpert' not found.21:40
sxpertE: Add user with '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser sxpert'.21:40
sxpertE: Specify an alternative installation path using '-s PATH' option.21:40
lardmanczr: what does -r do?21:40
czrlardman, remove21:40
Taksomeone set up us the brick21:40
lardmanno dev entry created21:41
sxpertI have run the sbox_adduser thing, which in turns fscks up my environment (unable to create a new term)21:41
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czrlardman, how do you know?21:41
linuxkrnbah, scratchbox add_user doesn't work on gentoo.21:41
czrlardman, cat /proc/devices ?21:41
sxpertseems to fail on debian too21:41
tigertmariorz_: yeah, osx here too21:41
tigertmariorz_: though ubuntu at work21:41
lardmanczr: no, nothing there21:42
lardmanczr: Should be /dev/pvr I think21:42
X-Fadelardman: That should be make with mknod perhaps? You would need the major and minor though..21:42
czrlardman, hmm. if the device driver doesn't expose stuff using sysfs, no udev entry will be created. but you should see stuff under /proc/devices if it registers any char or block device structures from the kernel21:42
czrX-Fade, if the driver is not listed in /proc/devices, no mknod will help21:43
lardmanit shares some memory21:43
czrmaybe it's a pure mailbox driver? weird though. not to have a device entry21:43
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czrlardman, does it have any parameters? modinfo?21:43
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czralso, maybe it's probing failed but it forgot to tell the module linker about it.21:44
lardmannot sure, but it is alive and useful data is returned in /sys/module/pvr/initstate21:44
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bedboiso regarding the question i posed some minute ago, anyone knows if there's a hildon dialog to handle yes/no questions?21:45
kaltsiI'll try to repeat 23221:46
czryou could just use hildonbanner to tell the user "this IS what you want to do" :-)21:46
sxpertapparently it doesn't like being installed from X21:46
kaltsi2313 that is21:46
czrkaltsi, cool.21:46
czrtell me if you need help :-)21:46
X-Fadelardman: what does it say in /sys/module/pvr/initstate ?21:46
czr4.0 sdk install, nothing interesting. AF up and running, then apt-get remove and watch and enjoy.21:46
K`zanWhere is the stuff in the My Selection menu hidden at?  Possibly one thing in there I would want on that menu ;-).21:47
lardmananyone know what these are (output of cat /proc/devices): sticon vcs /dev/vc/0 ?21:47
lardmanX-Fade: live21:48
penguinbaitvirtual console21:48
lardmanah, ok21:48
X-Fadelardman: That can't be bad :)21:48
czrmaybe it's a suggesting to the user to "get a life"21:48
lardmanno, a reasonable start anyway. Going to have a look at the server library now21:48
czr"go ahead, live some!"21:48
K`zanEh, later, errands perhaps I can find it as I wander around :-). bbl21:49
X-Fadelardman: And all this with renaming kernel symbols and changing version number in the module?21:49
linuxkrnso I've installed scratchbox, tried to login and get "you don't have an active target in scratchbox chroot."  tells me to run sb-menu before continuing. So I tried to run sb-menu and it tells me the same thing.  Any advice?21:49
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X-Fadelardman: Let me package glx-gears ;)21:50
lardmanX-Fade: yes21:50
czrI can package my old gfx mem benchmark doodler21:50
lardmanX-Fade: hmm, the user-space side server needs to be up and running, and then the opengl implementation too21:51
lardmanI wouldn't get your hopes up yet21:51
X-Fadelardman: But is there source for the server?21:52 ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (ARM), not stripped21:52
lardmanhow does one tell the abi?21:53
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X-Fadelardman: My tar in scratchbox looks about the same ;)21:54
lardmanI know, I just checked a binary in mine21:55
lardmanI'll try the good old try it and see technique :)21:55
X-FadeAh the segfaulty one..21:55
czralso known as the brute force technique.21:56
czror solution to the infinite monkeys dilemma.21:56
sxpertok. the solution to the issues with the installer is to install from a text console21:57
sxpertaka out of X21:57
suihkulokkilardman: objdump -x foo|grep EABI21:57
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lardmansuihkulokki: thanks21:59
lardmanwith the monkey test: ./power_test produces -sh: file: not found22:00
kulveno file command on the device22:01
lardmannothing EABI or even ABI related from objdump22:01
lardmankulve: why would it want file?22:01
kulveNokia-N800-26:~# file22:02
kulve-sh: file: not found22:02
lardmanNokia-N800-:/home/user/pvr# ./xegltest22:02
lardman-sh: ./xegltest: not found22:02
czrldd ?22:02
_Monkeyldd is to show shared libraries used by a program.  On the tablets you can use: alias ldd="/lib/ --list" and then type ldd /path/to/executeable as an equivalent22:02
lardmanmust have copied the wrong line, sorry22:02
lardmanno ldd on the device either is there22:03
czryou can run the .so directly as _Monkey says22:03
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kulveor: /lib/  --list /bin/busybox22:03
czrlardman, or use this: LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS=1 foo22:03
lardmanCan I set LD_LIBRARY_PATH (it doesn't currently) exist22:04
lardmanor will I then have to add the default paths on to it?22:04
czrno. it extends the defaults22:04
czrI'm 99% sure it does ;-)22:05
kulveit does22:05
* czr just tested22:05
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lardmanright, here is comes (6 lines or so):22:06
lardmanNokia-N800-:/home/user/pvr# /lib/ --list ./power_test22:06
lardman./power_test: /lib/ version `GLIBC_2.0' not found (required by ./power_test)22:06
lardman./power_test: /lib/ version `GLIBC_2.1' not found (required by /home/user/pvr/
lardman./power_test: /lib/ version `GLIBC_2.0' not found (required by /home/user/pvr/
lardman => /home/user/pvr/ (0x40004000)22:06
lardman => /lib/ (0x41220000)22:06
lardman => /lib/ (0x41028000)22:06
lardman        /lib/ => /lib/ (0x2a000000)22:06
czrhmm. you could force the glibc compatibility thingies. somehow.22:06
lardmanif anyone knows how I'm all ears22:07
czrme too22:07
lardmanor is it a hexeditor job?22:07
czrwell, that would do the trick too I guess, but I'm sure there's some more intelligent way22:07
czrbut you could try hexing it22:07
zuhMaybe get the libc env from where ever the other binaries come from?22:07
lardmanah yes22:08
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zuhLD_LIBRARY_PATH and so on22:08
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lardmanI'm already doing the LD_LIBRARY_PATH thing so that sounds like it might work22:08
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suihkulokki22:06 < lardman>         /lib/ => /lib/ (0x2a000000)22:09
suihkulokkiyou are smoking crack22:09
lardmanwhy's that?22:09
czrincompatible ABI?22:09
czralthough I don't think the ld-linux version really signifies broken backward compatibility.22:10
suihkulokkiyou are linking a oldabi linker to newabi linker22:10
lardmannot my doing, and in fact that file doens't exist22:10
czrkaltsi, how goes it?22:11
suihkulokkihmhm. maybe that's something due to using /lib/ from command line22:11
kaltsiczr I confirmed it22:11
suihkulokkilardman: you need a oldabi chroot22:11
czrkaltsi, great. any clue as to what causes it/them?22:11
lardmansuihkulokki: yep, not so great22:12
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kaltsiczr nope .. don't know the way this thing works.. now I'm just trying to grep everywhere to find entries with hello-world after the removal so that I could somehow get a clue :)22:12
czrkaltsi, the package dep thingy is not really an issue I think (just read your append to the bug)22:13
czrsomething breaks in the way that TN/AF does things22:13
Takis d.m.o currently hosed?22:13
czrI could find any place where the menu was replicated though. used some time to grep for it too, but nada.22:13
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kaltsiczr yep.. but maybe it's one of those packages postrm scripts22:13
czrkaltsi, yup22:13
kaltsisomething still tries to load the hello-world.png even though it's removed.. that's why I'm trying to grep for that22:14
czrcould be anything really. statusbar.conf goes "latkimaan" as well22:14
czr"hildon-desktop[7116]: GLIB DEBUG default - NAO OK!"22:14
czrmaybe that is a helpful clue ;-)22:15
kaltsiI wonder what NAO means :)22:15
* czr shrugs22:15
czrit sounds powerful22:15
czrall your icons are belong to the context.22:16
kaltsiremoving ~/.osso made one of those TN icons go away22:18
kaltsibut the other still wants hello-world.png22:18
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kaltsiand it doesn't complain about the NAO either22:20
czrbut nao is good. nao = brain in chinese22:21
czrnao ok! = positive22:21
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kaltsidoes anyone know how an application gets to the TN menu, like now TN->extras->hello world ?22:25
czr /usr/share/applications/22:25
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czrand hildon under there22:25
kaltsiok the hello-world.desktop is still there22:26
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czrthere used to be another way as well, hmm. just removed it yesterday, I wonder what it was.22:26
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kaltsithe postinst copies it there but the postrm doesn't remove it22:27
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czr /etc/others-menu/extra_applications/22:27
czrmight contain a symlink to the desktop file as well. it shouldn't be used anymore, but some of your docs include it still22:27
kaltsithere's only maemopad22:27
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kaltsihm is there a good app that I can install and remove cleanly and which also installs an icon to TN?22:34
kaltsiI wanna spy how it's done properly :)22:34
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czrhmm. mine uses stock icon and goes directly under extras, so doesn't quality22:34
czrmaemopad doesn't install it either. hmm22:35
kaltsigrr I don't like wider than 80 char code22:35
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kaltsiis this documented somewhere btw? :)22:36
czr"file a bug" :-)22:36
czrnot to my knowledge22:36
czrother than "the hello-world app contains an example"22:36
czrat least the "making application packages" is pretty silent on those22:37
czrthe quality awareness document skips icons all-together22:38
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jjokaltsi: so, what are you working on?22:38
czrjjo, 231322:39
kaltsijjo trying to figure out how to fix hello-world-app's removal.. it leaves the icon behind to /usr/share/applications/hildon/22:39
kaltsiI commented my findings on that bug #231322:39
_MonkeyBug 2313 might be found at
jjokaltsi: man, you're really dedicated22:40
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czrkaltsi, it's weird though. my package removes the desktop file automatically22:40
czrno need for preinst/postrm stuff at all22:41
czrdid you try purging it?22:41
jjowell it should keep track of files it installs22:41
czrmaybe it's marked as a configuration file.22:41
czrkaltsi, btw, if it only would be an SDK bug, then how would the package behave on a device?22:42
kaltsinow when I reinstalled hello world then I get those two TN menus again22:42
czrnotice, if you repeat the process, you will not get three, four menus. just only two :-)22:43
kaltsiczr hmm dunno.. :)22:43
czrI think I should bug about scalability of that bug.22:43
czrkaltsi, I could try on the n800, it's time I reflash that sucker anyway22:43
kaltsithe purge didn't work either22:44
kaltsiin fact it worked worse.. now it can still find the icon22:44
czrok. there's no hello-world-app in the 2008 repos though22:44
kaltsihmm there must be since I'm using those repos22:45
czrmaybe --purge activated some kind of zombiesque feature in TN22:45
czrkaltsi, device ones?22:45
czrhmm. which repo?22:46
_Monkeywell, which repo is it under22:46
kaltsiyes it seems to be in ARMEL too.. SDK repo22:46
czrhmm. I'll just copy the deb then22:46
jjohmmm... so it installs a file called hello-world.inactive and renames it as hello-world.desktop22:47
czrah. that's why it's not caught on removal automatically22:47
jjono wonder the desktop file isn't removed22:47
czrwhy does it do it via inactive?22:48
kaltsibut the bigger problem is why does the TN menu duplicate itself22:48
czrit breaks on desktop files which point to something that doesn't anymore exist?22:48
czrhmm. the package includes an icon in control, true? maybe that triggers some bad stuff in TN22:49
czrcause the icon should be gone at the point when package is already removed22:49
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kaltsiwhen I reinstall hello-world-app it really modifies my .osso/hildon-desktop/*.conf files a lot.. removes many lines22:51
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czrhmm. I don't get the TN icon on the device at all22:52
czrI get the statusbar and home applet one. no TN icon22:52
mariorz_is it possible to edit a file on the device via emacs+tramp... should i jsut install an ftp server?22:52
mariorz_i have open ssh installed alredy22:52
mariorz_ala gettting an ftp error22:53
fysassh into it?22:53
|RAnybody know if someone in the 500 winners or somewhere else was planning on packaging asterisk for the n8x0 ? :)22:53
mariorz_fysa: sure but how do you edit the files?22:53
czrkaltsi, saw my msg?22:53
czrkaltsi, I'm going to try removal next22:53
kaltsiczr yep saw it22:53
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fysaI could use nano/pico/jed on OS200722:53
* mariorz_ vomits22:54
czr"Unable to uninstall hello-world-app"22:54
mariorz_i need emacs22:54
czrnow this is fine and dandy ;-)22:54
fysaapt-cache search emacs22:54
czrkaltsi, not just an SDK bug22:54
kaltsiczr any more specific?22:54
mariorz_hmmm good idea :D thx22:54
fysayou sure the N800 has enough RAM for emacs? :P22:54
bill20r3I have't seen an emacs dist.22:54
czrI'll check the log, just a moment. was uninstalling from application manager (same way that I installed)22:54
mariorz_haha well im on a 770 so maybe not?22:54
kaltsiczr yea but is this just hello-world-app which is broken? that's part of the sdk :)22:54
mariorz_but anyway nobody edits files remptely via tramp?22:55
fysait should build relatively easily if you get a dev environment up.22:55
fysanever used tramp..22:55
fysause sshfs22:55
czrkaltsi, so far. but I can't verify TN brokedness yet22:55
fysaor rsync.22:55
* bill20r3 uses vi22:55
mariorz_oks thanks22:55
czrkaltsi, dpkg/info/hello-world-app.postrm: line 11: syntax error: "(" unexpected22:55
czrkaltsi, error processing hello-world-app (--remove)22:55
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czrand so forth22:55
kaltsiczr ahah..22:56
czrahah indeed22:56
czrNAO NOT OK!22:56
kaltsiczr so it's bashism22:56
fysashouldn't need to mess with FTP22:56
czrkaltsi, I'll hackerate myself into the device and check, moment22:56
kaltsiprobably the ash shell just doesn't understand that syntax22:57
czrkaltsi, you mean this: conf=( "home.conf" "statusbar.conf" "tasknavigator.conf" )22:57
czrthe script starts with #!/bin/sh. bleh22:57
czrI thought Hewlett-Packard was the only house that implemented these bugs22:58
* czr adds Nokia to the list as well22:58
kaltsithe shell on the device is ash, not bash.. as you well know22:58
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czrkaltsi, yes. the script should be marked as /bin/bash. not /bin/sh.22:58
kaltsino-one has probably tried that on the device.. at least not uninstalling :)22:58
czrand the reason for the array is..22:59
czrsed "/$home_data/d" $path/${conf[0]} > home_conf.tmp22:59
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czrmv blah conf[0] blah22:59
czrand then repeat the same command for each array entry. not in a loop even22:59
kaltsiczr yes or it should be rewritten in sh syntax and fixed anyways22:59
czrhas anyone heard of 'for'-statement? :-)22:59
czrso. any suggestions on how to remove the package? :-)23:00
kaltsimodify the postrm under /var something23:00
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kaltsiand hope there's no md5sum for it somewhere else :)23:00
czrhmm. is there an armel package of nano anywhere?23:00
kaltsiyes.. in the same repo23:01
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czrI doubt dpkg is sophisticated enough to check md5sums on removal23:01
kaltsisdk repo has nano23:01
czreww. but that also pulls in libncurses5w23:01
czrI'll do it my way.23:01
kaltsiget nano-tiny then.. it pulls in something else :)23:01
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czrhah. libslang2 :-)23:02
mariorz_micro-emacs ftw!23:02
kaltsimariorz_: plz port emacs to the device.. I'd like that too :)23:02
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mariorz_asl the link for the packages is dead23:03
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czrkaltsi, somewhat ironic that sed on the device actually supports -i, which makes the whole array thing so so so unnecessary23:03
kaltsimariorz_: ok so it should be possible to take a debian package and just recompile it23:04
Takzile emacs subset is already packaged for maemo23:04
mariorz_kaltsi: id actually be happy with that tramp patch23:05
kaltsihehe zile is lossy emacs :)23:05
czrkaltsi, uninstalled now. leaves the icon in extras23:05
kaltsiczr ok well that's a nice and clear bug23:06
czrso, device testing shows that: 1) hello-world-app is broken in scripts. 2) for some reason the TN icon doesn't work at all (diff from SDK), 3) the icon is left in place (due to the rename thingy for desktop I guess)23:06
czrI haven't tried rebooting the device, but I'd suspect it will come up broken as well.23:06
czrall the other .so:s in hello-world-app seemed to work23:07
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czrkaltsi, I'll append to the bug23:07
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czrkaltsi, k23:11
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kaltsiI got the SDK also to ask for the location23:12
kaltsithis was the second time I installed it23:12
czrhmm. I've never seen that23:13
czron the SDK I mean23:13
czrthat's why it was a surprise to see it on the device23:13
kaltsiI guess that's when the postinst goes to that maemo-select-menu-location branch23:13
* czr nods, but hasn't really looked at the scripts, other than the postrm23:14
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kaltsiI don't know how that gets called.. which parameters does it get23:14
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czrit's silly btw why the applet thingies can't be integrated in any more intelligent way. sedding configuration files? evil.23:14
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czrand a disaster waiting to happen really23:14
mariorz_kaltsi: any linkage on how i would go about recompiling the micro-emacs source tot he device? total noob here23:14
mariorz_for the*23:14
kaltsimariorz_: .. you would need to install an SDK23:15
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mariorz_oh wait23:15
kaltsifor a total noob it can be a bit intimidating but this channel or the maemo-developers mailing list can help :)23:16
mariorz_need a linkux desktop for the sdk?23:16
kaltsiyes linuks23:16
kaltsia problem?23:16
czrmariorz_, you can also use vmware23:16
* mariorz_ runs an ibook 64 with very little spare HD23:16
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kaltsiI run ubuntu in my mac mini with vmware23:17
kaltsibut let's see if I could compile emacs.. I can give it a try23:17
mariorz_ok ill give it a try then23:17
kaltsibut I give up easily23:17
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mariorz_i shoudl probably get a new mac book, and run ubuntu on this one23:18
kaltsimicro emacs might be a much better idea anyways.. space is limited on the device23:18
czrkaltsi, I think I'll let the bug ferment a bit now23:18
mariorz_also suppsoedly key combinaions work better for the on screen keyboard23:19
kaltsiczr sure.. good hunting so far.. clearly the beast is wounded and the trail will stay fresh :)23:19
czrkaltsi, just to see what else will happen to it23:19
czrkaltsi, beast or beasts, there might be multiple. travelling in packs. of 20. :_)23:19
czr:-) even. for great context.23:19
czrkaltsi, the icon does kind of remind one of a beast. the beast of GNU23:19
kaltsias long as it's not a llama23:20
czrhmm. that brings back colorful memories :-)23:20
czranyhow, back to proper work now I guess.23:20
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mariorz_is there a ftp server package?23:21
czrit's funny how much time one can spend just debugging/bugging without doing real work at all :-)23:21
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Jitendebugging/bugging is not real work?23:21
czrJiten, not to me unfortunately.23:22
kaltsimariorz_: ftp server package for what?23:22
mariorz_for the device23:22
czrJiten, real work = smt that I get paid for.23:22
kaltsiof what? :)23:22
Jitenso, what do you get paid for?23:22
mariorz_im thinking tramp would work if it had a ftp server installed ot connect to?23:22
kaltsimariorz_: ah sorry .. I thought you were looking for some package from ftp.. but you want "ftp server"-package :)23:23
mariorz_k, thanks23:23
kaltsiheh.. sorry no I don't know if there is ftp server package23:23
kaltsilet's see..23:24
mariorz_oh-soh ha23:24
kaltsimariorz_: have you visited this:
kaltsiunfortunately there's no ftp server package there.. just an ftp client23:24
mariorz_yeah :/23:25
mariorz_google's got nothing23:25
mariorz_nvm think i found one23:25
czrJiten, currently working on training material. but in real life I mainly work with high perf scalable algorithms dealing with I/O23:26
mariorz_or public rather23:26
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czrJiten, and other interesting stuff too. I/O is kind of limiting way of putting it.23:27
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JitenI see, that sounds somewhat interesting.23:31
czrindeed. infinite ways of doing something, limited number of ways actually are good :-)23:32
czrand the bugs are also so much more interesting ;-)23:34
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kaltsidamn this emacs.. it wants to build in the mail support and there's no simple configure flag to disable that23:37
czrkaltsi, <jedi>"you don't want to disable any feature in emacs"</jedi>23:37
kaltsiexcept mail23:38
czrkaltsi, <jedi>"not even mail"</jedi>23:38
kaltsiwell that's true23:38
czr<jedi>"told you so"</jedi>23:39
josephus<emacs> your mind tricks dont work on me young padawan </emacs>23:39
czr<jedi>You're missing a comma there</jedi> :-)23:40
czralthough, introducing yourself as the object works too :-)23:40
czr<nano>squeek squeek</nano>23:40
josephus*sighs* too late for you :)23:40
* czr goes slightly crazy23:40
czrI blame bug 2312 and 2313 and 2315 and some others too23:40
_MonkeyBug 2312 might be found at
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czrhmm. is the recommended way to use emacs within the sdk stiff using emacsclient?23:43
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sp3000does it work?23:49
czrI don't know. it exists at least23:49
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* czr is not a friend of emacs23:49
czrbut the material mentions it. I think it was tsavola who insisted :-)23:49
czrvimtutor is also mentioned. don't quite remember who wanted that included too.23:51
czr(it also exists in the SDK)23:51
kaltsiI'll use this simpler mail program to satisfy emacs: ln -s /scratchbox/tools/bin/true /usr/bin/mail23:51
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czrah, the Truemailer23:51
czrkaltsi, that satisfies the build? :-)23:52
kaltsistrangely I get no spam with that23:52
kaltsiczr at least the configure is happy.. now it's building23:52
czrkaltsi, I can arrange some. you built uucp yet? ;-)23:52
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czr"Hello, you might be wondering why I'm sending this email since we've never met. Allow me to introduce myself, I am <bleep>, <mumble> of the recently deceased <bleep>.."23:53
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kaltsihehe.. I've only ever got one of those :)23:53
czrI think I've learned by heart most of the variations by now :-)23:54
czrthe sad ones still contain the template fields intact too23:54
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czrotoh, I'm still waiting for the "100 billion dollars"-one.23:54
pupnik_yaay new upstream version of technoballz with optimizatinos for tablet23:57
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_Monkeywell, technoballz is working!!!23:57
pupnik_Monkey: forget technoballz23:58
_Monkeypupnik: I forgot technoballz23:58
czryes, but what is it? :-)23:58
czr"Its called Technoballz, because its got techno things in it and balls. ..." ?23:59
pupnik_Monkey: technoballz is an arkanoid (pong) style game
_MonkeyOK, pupnik.23:59
kaltsisalty chocolate balls23:59
pupnikdon't download that - new version will be up soon23:59
czrpupnik, you're working on that? cool23:59

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