IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2007-11-18

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pupnik770the artist shows up on freenode occasionally00:01
K`zan_800But how to replace the grubbing paws screen :)00:01
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alteregoJust occured to me ..00:04
alteregohd-plugin-manager.c might be autogenerated :)00:05
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K`zan_800pupnik770: Thanks!00:05
pupnik770that logo on my system is a jpg not a png though00:06
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K`zan_800ssh on the device is WONDERFUL :).00:09
K`zan_800Even figured out how to change user's password!00:09
K`zan_800Love it more by the hour :).00:10
* alterego uses key auth00:11
hircusK`zan_800: which device? 800 or 810?00:11
pupnik770testing new boot logo00:12
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K`zan_800Going to have to find something and then get it correctly formatted....00:12
K`zan_800/usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/qgn_indi_nokia_hands.jpg - not png00:14
pupniknot working here - when the progress bar loads i see the NOKIA logo instead of hands or my replacement image00:16
pupnikbut then i see the image for 0.1 second before the desktop appears00:16
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pupnikpossibly cause i have multiboot from mmc that it's not working00:17
K`zan_800never mind00:17
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derfpupnik: Do you have R&D mode enabled?00:25
derfI believe that Nokia logo is somewhere on the initramfs.00:25
pupnikbooting os2006 off mmc00:25
K`zan_800Makes sense to me.00:25
pupnikwell i see the logo for a split second before the hildon desktop appears00:26
derfI know when I switched R&D mode on, it started showing it. It might also if you're booting off mmc.00:26
derfYour logo, you mean.00:26
derfYou'll also see it properly when you shut down.00:26
pupniki just see the NOKIA logo on shutdown also00:27
derfWell, maybe that's a 770 thing, then.00:27
derfI know I see mine on the N800.00:28
derfOr maybe related to booting off mmc instead of being in R&D mode.00:28
pupniknot a big deal - device is almost always on here (nice and stable)00:28
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alteregoThis is starting to get me annoyed ..00:31
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alteregoI can't find anything wrong with anything except things not working O_O00:31
alteregoFor some reason hd_plugin_loader_get_type doesn't appear to be defined when getting linked :/00:32
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p|_is possible to do a:  dd if=/dev/mtdblock4 of=/media/mmc2/mybkp bs=1M00:33
alteregoIt'll take a while though.00:33
p|_also if i'm booting from internal flash ?00:33
alteregoYou might be better off piping it through an ssh connection or seomthing.00:33
alteregoWell, it's not exactly safe to do it when booting from the device no ..00:34
p|_baceuse i'm getting an error00:34
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p|_dd: /dev/mtdblock4: Input/Output error00:35
p|_after about 88mb copied00:35
alteregoAh, that'd be EOF00:35
alteregoMaybe ..00:35
p|_so ? is it an error or not ?00:36
p|_is this type of backup supposed to work only if i boot from mmc ?00:36
alteregoIt doesn't exist ..00:38
alteregoThe hd_plugin_loader_get_type method isn't in any f*cking library in the SDK!00:38
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alteregoThat is _retarded_ ..00:40
alteregop|_, yes. don't do it when you're actually using the device.00:40
alterego(internal flash boot)00:40
p|_ok, thanks00:41
alteregotko, that's meaning less00:41
tkolibrary vs. executable ?00:41
alteregotko, I've been staring at those files for over a week. The symbol isn't in any shared library I can find.00:41
alteregoI'm getting linking errors.00:41
p|_after i have installed the OS2008 (and re-flash to OS2007) now i see while boot some extra info over the nokia logo00:42
tkooh well, another reason to kick jobi00:42
p|_it do not show this before00:42
timelyxpl_: is it green?00:42
alteregoI've wasted so much time on this.00:42
alteregoAnd the problem isn't even obvious ..00:42
p|_yes timelyx00:42
_Monkeyhmmm... timelyx is timelyx's mac, it has scrollback00:42
alteregoThere don't appear to be _any_ plugin_loader related symbols being exported.00:42
timelyxyou're in R&D mode, you can disable it w/ some flasher args00:42
p|_ha ok00:43
timelyxsomething like --clear-rd-flags=... --disable-rd-mode00:43
p|_i'll search in itt00:43
timelyx./flasher*  --help00:43
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trenka--disable-rd-mode enough00:44
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alteregoHow can a library be built without these symbols being exported?00:45
* alterego wonders if this is local to the SDK.00:45
* alterego takes a few deep breaths ..00:45
alteregoGetting angry isn't going to help me ..00:45
tkoif the function is part of the executable it is available for any plugin that is dlopened into that process00:48
pupnik  german link to N810 info page - not in the shop yet00:48
GeneralAntillesYou never know, alterego, you could end up turning into the Incredible Hulk/Programmer. ;)00:49
alteregoAnd do what? Fix all the crap that's wrong with hildondesktop?00:49
alteregoThis issue doesn't make any sense at all.00:50
GeneralAntillesYou'll release a perfectly stable, 3x faster and endlessly awesome OS2009 release within mere hours.00:50
alteregoThat would be interesting.00:50
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l7hot damn00:52
l7IT 2008 looks soo much better than IT 200700:52
pupniki need to get in a spaceship going 0.9c for a few hours until the N810 hits germany00:52
alteregoI can't believe this is happening ...00:52
l7so did anyone buy the n810 today?00:53
l7i would really like one if i had the extra money, but i guess i will settle for n80000:53
alteregoIt's not out in my country.00:53
elbI plan to order one when it's available, but ... not yet, in the US00:54
alteregoI wonder if it's available in Finland yet ^_^00:55
hircusl7: still stuck in pre-order land :)00:55
GeneralAntillesWell, sure, if you go knock over Nokia HQ.00:55
timelyxthere's a nokia store in downtown helsinki00:55
l7it is out in some US cities i think00:55
timelyxi could check there today (sunday)00:55
hircusl7: yeah, someone got it in Chicago00:55
l7they called me telling me it was ready00:55
hircusalterego: can't you call the local store and reserve a unit?00:56
l7if only i could afford one...00:56
alteregoI don't have a local store.00:56
GeneralAntillesIf only it were worth the money over the N800. :P00:56
hircusl7: you can make money offering to buy it for other people :)00:56
l7hircus: really?00:56
hircusalterego: ah, thought you were asking about Finland00:56
l7hircus: where? on ebay?00:56
alteregoDoesn't look like it's out in Finland yet either ^_^00:57
zerojayCan anyone out there explain to me what the point is of sid-support and ogg-support when they don't appear to do anything?00:57
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l7i guess i might as well since i reserved one00:57
hircusl7: lots of people living in Canada, etc. can't buy it directly00:57
timelyxwhat's sid-support?00:57
zerojaySupposedly adds .sid music support to the tablet.00:57
l7hircus: what's the most trusted way to do this?00:57
hircusso yes. announce it in internettablettalk -- but make sure the unit is in stock at your local store00:57
l7i haven't really experimetned w/ ebay00:57
timelyxwhat's sid?00:57
hircusl7: I'd say eBay and only accepting Paypal account-holders00:57
K`zan_800what is sid?00:57
zerojaytimelyx: Are you kidding me?00:57
zerojaytimelyx: C64 music files.00:58
hircus.sid -- old music format, no? can't remember the details00:58
timelyxi'm a browser dev, not a music philo00:58
tkodebian unstable00:58
Matt-WI've got a really silly problem. I'm trying to get the Chinook SDK working but apt-get from inside scratchbox can't resolve any hostnames (wget can though)00:58
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l7hircus: would people trust someone w/o a seller history though?00:58
timelyxbah, i was a fli/flc/mid fan myself00:58
hircusl7: good point00:58
l7i could use amazon marketplace perhaps00:58
hircusl7: same problem00:58
timelyxi asked and was told there was sid support, but no good mid support00:58
zerojaytimelyx: Those would be nice too.00:58
hircusand on Amazon, the top sellers have, what, thousands of ratings. so it's harder00:58
l7oh i thought amazon gave the buyer more insurance00:58
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hircusl7: if you accept Paypal users only, they automatically have, I think, $200 insurance00:59
hircusI'd sell myself if only I have access to a local store where I can just quickly pick them up :)00:59
l7hircus:  hrm, i think they would want more insurance than that00:59
* alterego attempts to fix hildon-desktop00:59
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alteregoI'm not going to have wasted all this time for nothing.01:00
l7well it's a cool idea, i was sort of thinking about it, but the whole ebay world has sort of eluded me01:00
l7reggie's video on the n810 is really nice01:01
hircusit is indeed01:01
GeneralAntillesYou could do it on a case-by-case with Paypal through ITT, l7.01:01
elbtko: who is the first image on that page, do you know?01:01
zerojayIt's just too bad that Reggie's voice makes me want to fall asleep.01:01
alteregoSo the N810 is officially out?01:02
zerojayOther than that, very good video.01:02
l7GeneralAntilles: what kind of markup would be reasonable to charge for shipping units to people?01:02
timelyxit's been out for a few days, afaict01:02
tkoelb: nope, but it might be said in the comments01:02
hircusoh wait. Reggie's video, not thoughtfix's .. where, on the main page?01:02
l7seems like you would have to buy insured shipping too01:02
alteregoWhat countries?01:02
hircustimelyx: it's Schrodingerly out01:02
timelyxhircus: it's out and then it's out of stock?01:03
zerojayHm.. microb-spellcheck.. interesting.01:03
pupnikrefresh... refresh...01:03
timelyxzerojay: iirc that was missing a ui element :(01:03
zerojayI'll try it anyways.01:03
hircustimelyx: yes. and the non-Nokia shops are not even selling it yet01:03
hircusmakes me wonder why Nokia can't coordinate launches like how Sony, Nintendo, Apple does it01:04
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timelyxhircus: you must have missed the n800 launch01:04
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timelyxthere was the launch date, and then there was the day you could get it in stores01:04
* Tieku just ordered himself an n800 on ebay :-D01:04
hircustimelyx: I was there01:05
alteregoThere's a difference between "can't" and "can't be bothered" or "won't"01:05
timelyxor should i say, there was the day you could get it in stores, and then there was the launch01:05
hircusalterego: ah yes. "can't be bothered"01:05
alteregoNokia are perfectly _capable_ of a coordinated launch. They obviously choose not to.01:05
* timelyx questions that01:05
hircusso it's between accusing incompetence and accusing callousness :)01:05
GeneralAntillesOr the day before the launch date you could buy it in stores if you went to the right CompUSA. :D01:05
timelyxGeneralAntilles: my point exactly01:05
huronhey guys, any idea whether mplayer is available for OS2008?01:05
hircusexactly! they did not put a gag-order on the shops01:05
timelyxhircus: that worked well enough for HP01:06
hircussame case with LetsTalk and the Chicago store this time around, no?01:06
* timelyx shrugs01:06
hircusHP .. ugh01:06
tkohmm, like apple launching iphone several months before you could get it in stores? was there a point somewhere?01:06
timelyxif a book seller can't get a coordinated launch right01:06
timelyxwhat makes you think a phone vendor can?01:06
hircusHP's launch of their anniversary-edition calculator works well, actually01:06
pupnikmaybe nokia just ships to USA faster so they can make some money before the dollar becomes worthless01:06
l7Tieku: how much did the n800 cost on ebay?01:06
timelyxhircus: wrong HP01:06
elbpupnik: hah01:06
hircusbut otherwise.. HP is quoting different prices for the same components depending on whether you go HP/Intel, HP/AMD, Compaq/Intel or Compaq/AMD :P01:06
elbit HAS to bounce sooner or later :-P01:06
* timelyx meant the wizard...01:07
hircustko: well, pre-announcing is fine01:07
pupnikelb with M3 growing at 14% APR?  not any time soon01:07
GeneralAntillesThe gag order on the last HP was a joke.01:07
hircusbut the shipping should be coordinated01:07
GeneralAntillesThere aren't going to be any more HPs, so . . . who cares?01:07
Matt-WSo it seems other people have had the problem with apt-get not resolving hostnames inside Scratchbox, but the suggested fixes are all already in place on my system and it still doesn't work. Irksome.01:08
hircusoh, Harry Potter :P01:08
elbpupnik: M3?01:08
* GeneralAntilles had to cart boxes and boxes of HP across a sweltering parking lot. :(01:08
elb(M3 is not a term with which I am familiar)01:08
GeneralAntillesEconomics, elb.01:08
hircusGeneralAntilles: my sympathies :)01:08
pupnikelb a measure of the money supply - they create more credit and dollars, this leads to inflation01:08
elbGeneralAntilles: that's not really a useful answer01:08
GeneralAntillesIt gives you enough to hit wiki. ;)01:09
hircuscould someone do a quick rehash of the difference between M2, M3, M4? :)01:09
elbwikipedia is generally full of lies and worthlessness, if that's what you mean by 'wiki'01:09
pupniki just watch to see trends in dollar01:09
Tiekul7: i got it for £12301:09
hircuselb: ah, you mean 'statistics' :)01:09
timelyxyou're missing damn lies01:10
elbpupnik: I keep hearing all about all the inflation, but ... if anything, I have seen deflation in the past 12 months, empirically01:10
alteregoDoesn't look like it's available in _any_ online shop.01:10
timelyxa very important part of statistics01:10
elbpupnik: it's not clear to me that we have any idea what the problem is :-)01:10
hircusalterego: which country?01:10
Matt-WWoo, working now.01:10
alterego_any_ country.01:10
pupnikI pick my gurus and follow them blindly01:10
timelyxhey, does the store have correct product info for the n810 yet?01:11
guru3all hail me? ;)01:11
timelyxlast i checked, the n810 was weightless01:11
hircusconfusing, right? unless you know from somewhere else, you'd not know that you can preorder it01:11
hircusweightless -- awesome01:11
timelyxhircus: among some other very amusing detials01:11
alteregoPre order it from where?01:11
infobottimelyx meant: hircus: among some other very amusing details01:11
alteregoYou can't preorder it from the online shops.01:11
hircusalterego:,, <= Nokia's own store01:12
alteregoThere are no shops in the UK ..01:12
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hircusalterego: yes you can. oh, not in the UK, probably01:12
alteregoNo, you can't.01:12
hircusalterego: ah, for letstalk you might have to call01:12
alteregoNot if you have the discount code like me.01:12
elbyeah, those of us with discount codes apparently have to wait for some magic word :-)01:12
zerojayyep :(01:12
alteregoI doubt any store selling the N810 would accept my discount code.01:12
hircusI think letstalk does the $75 discount code01:12
alteregoYou think ..01:13
hircusis it that, or the full developer discount?01:13
alteregoI have the device program discount code.01:13
alterego_a_ device program discount code ..01:13
hircusyes, the device program one probably won't work01:14
alteregoI suppose this is why Python don't have a working desktop plugin system01:14
alteregoDespite maemo having written the python loader and it being in SVN.01:14
K`zan_800Don't think that map download is working - everything flashing, but progress bar going nowhere...01:15
alteregoIt's probably going slowely.01:16
K`zan_800Def doing that. Wonder where it plans to put it?!?01:16
alteregoSD card01:16
K`zan_800Does it select the SD card with most space.01:16
K`zan_800Ah, good01:16
K`zan_800Clever little thing :)!01:17
pupniksomeone mentioned needing 2x the map size in free space for map download01:17
l7are discount codes only available to developers?01:17
K`zan_800Got a 4G and 1G card in there.01:17
zerojayl7: No, they were given to 500 people who applied.01:17
K`zan_800If I hadn't already had a decent GPS, I might have considered the 810.01:18
l7zerojay: where di they apply?01:18
hircusl7: program closed by now, I think01:18
hircusbut it was announced at maemo.org01:18
K`zan_800If one could get into it :-(.01:18
K`zan_800Which reminds me, I should try getting into it again today and see if it works.01:19
alteregoDoes your GPS access the internet and is it able to run 3rd party applications?01:19
K`zan_800Works today!01:19
GeneralAntillesOr navigate with google satellite maps?01:19
l7so are all the people who applied developers?01:19
zerojayl7: You're way too late.01:19
l7or just people who submitted ideas?01:19
zerojayl7: No.01:20
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K`zan_800What is this assigning some of the SD card to "virtual memory" thing?01:20
alteregoNo, I had a friend who applied and got accepted that is in no-way a a developer :)01:20
K`zan_800Expands the on device RAM?01:20
l7ah well, i thought it was only for devs01:20
K`zan_800err FLASH01:20
GeneralAntillesIt's a swap space, you want it K`zan_800.01:20
l7how much was the discount?01:20
K`zan_800How much is good?01:20
derfIt means that instead of spontaneously rebooting, your device just gets really, really slow.01:20
K`zan_800OK, that's easy, thanks :)!01:21
alteregol7, you should read more carefully. there was a _BIG_ point made about it.01:21
alteregol7, N810 for 99 EUR to the fortunate 500001:21
infobothmm... 500 is at #tuxboxproject01:21
K`zan_800Surprising maemo isn't on the default bookmarks..01:21
alteregoHe's easily suprised? :)01:22
K`zan_800An important resource for N stuff?01:22
K`zan_800LOL, true :-)01:22
GeneralAntillesInstead it's filled with stupid trendy "green" crap.01:22
hircusN800 developer discount was only for developers. N810 program was for developers and anyone who helps the platform (i.e. evangelists, doc writers etc)01:22
timelyxGeneralAntilles: nokia changed its values about a year ago01:23
l7alterego: i assumed i was unworthy, not being a dev :)01:23
timelyxgreen stuff was a "new" value01:23
timelyxso our customers get to suffer from it :)01:23
GeneralAntillesI'm a particularly fan of the charger disconnect warning. :\01:23
hircusheck, even Dell will offer to plant a tree for you when you purchase something :)01:23
alteregoAssumptions will make you look foolish in the end. You missed out on a great opportunity.01:23
alteregoGeneralAntilles, I've not seen that warning.01:24
K`zan_800Yeah, like it is going to use up all the electricity on the planet...01:24
timelyxalterego: leave your device charging for 2 days01:24
GeneralAntillesThere's a picture at the bottom.01:24
timelyxyou'll get the message01:24
alteregoGeneralAntilles, it's odd. Considering how the chargers drop to almost no power consumption when charging has finished.01:24
timelyxalterego: my impression is that a government complained01:24
timelyxslightly unrelated, i think some gov was complaining about devices using standbye mode01:25
infobottimelyx meant: slightly unrelated, i think some gov was complaining about devices using standbe mode01:25
hircusyes, Britain01:25
alteregoI'd be more worried about my VCR. Nokia chargers are the best I've ever used for power consumption.01:25
alteregoThey really are top-notch.01:25
hircusthe Conservatives brought it up to out-green the govt, and naturally the govt felt they had to respond01:25
elbheh I unplug my coffee grinder because it gets physically warm to the touch, doing nothing :-P01:25
hircusI think it's more a worry with HDTV owners :)01:25
elbit's amazing how much power a lot of appliances use doing nothing01:25
K`zan_800LOL one might think...01:26
elbI assume the concern is that the inverter is drawing power doing nothing?01:26
alteregoYeah it is, it's also amazing how little power the Nokia phone chargers take when doing nothing :P01:26
GeneralAntillesI'm going to do a study showing that the CPU cycles wasted in showing that banner actually exceed the charger in the amount of power used. :P01:26
elbI keep meaning to buy a kWh meter01:26
alteregoYou could be fooled into thinking they're not actually plugged in.01:27
K`zan_800More nuke plants *please*.01:27
alteregoGeneralAntilles, you're probably right ;)01:27
GeneralAntillesIf only I could turn it off.01:27
p|'night to all !01:27
GeneralAntillesIt just gets in the way.01:27
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timelyxyou can't :(01:28
GeneralAntillesThis whole green trendiness thing makes me want to become a cutter.01:28
K`zan_800Understand that.01:28
K`zan_800Done some actual research there  'eh GeneralAntilles? ;-)01:29
GeneralAntillesActually, just for spite, I'm going to leave an extra CFL on 24/7.01:29
hircusstill preferable than the SUV craze in the '90s, but yes, a lot of it is hype01:29
K`zan_800All that mercury, tisk, tisk...01:29
hircusGeneralAntilles: could be worse. incandescent lightbulb!01:29
K`zan_800Cheaper than a heater :)01:29
GeneralAntillesI was just going to say that.01:30
hircusK`zan_800: very true.01:30
GeneralAntillesEspecially here in Florida where it really doesn't get THAT cold.01:30
K`zan_800Envrioloons, sigh...01:30
hircusso I guess they should be banned in summer only :)01:30
GeneralAntillesThey've politicized the whole environment issue01:30
hircusI think Australia is actually phasing them out completely -- you won't be able to buy them anymore01:30
GeneralAntillesit's so far gone that they're just driving people away.01:30
hircusI see a market in LED Christmas decorations01:30
K`zan_800Yep, go back and live in caves that will make them happy...01:30
GeneralAntillesNo, kill yourself.01:30
GeneralAntillesAnyway, just be sure to vote for my bug! :P01:31
* alterego already has LED christmas lights.01:31
K`zan_800Right, I was just about to say that they will only be happy when all humanity is dead.01:31
alteregoI've got several in fact.01:31
hircusthat's the problem with any movement, really? That the self-righteous core end up pissing off everyone else01:31
K`zan_800Easier to be religious about it than actually do and understand real research.01:31
hircusalterego: neat! where did you get them?01:31
GeneralAntillesand they've got hypocrites like Al Gore as their main cheerleaders.01:31
alteregohircus, I can't remember. I think it was Maplin01:31
K`zan_800That map download has really got the device constipated :-).01:32
hircusalterego: ah. fond memories of undergrad days01:32
hircusyeah, the problem with politicizing an issue is that then the other side tends to distrust whatever you say01:32
GeneralAntillesEspecially when 90% of what you say isn't actually backed up by facts.01:33
K`zan_800Yep, too true.  Only recently have the real climateologist been allowed to be heard.01:33
GeneralAntillesWhich is sad, as the environment is an issue EVERYBODY can get behind.01:33
K`zan_800And they all say BS :-/.01:33
K`zan_800Yep, but a good scam, anyone want to buy carbon credits from me?  Just take a few to print up however many you want :)01:34
K`zan_800algore might get upset with me horning in on his cash cow though...01:34
K`zan_800Starving, chow, bbiab01:35
* pupnik likes to back-up over the facts in his Hummer01:35
alteregoHoly cow I've found it.01:36
derfAl Gore's cash cow is all the boards of directors he sits on, not the environment.01:36
K`zan_800But that gets publicity for the loons...01:36
hircusApple. I commented when he was appointed that it's so fitting01:36
hircusthe guy who invented the Internet (and the environment) and the company that "invented" the GUI01:37
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alteregoWhat does the Ndx field in readelf -s mean?01:37
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tkoalterego: index?01:38
alteregoYeah, I worked that out now :)01:38
alteregoI thought I found the symbol, but it's UND (undefined) I guess.01:38
alteregoThe occurance was actually in _my_ plugin loader.01:39
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tkothat is to be expected01:39
timelyxit'd be kinda bad if it were in our libraries :)01:39
alteregoSo who's life do I threaten to get this fixed?01:39
tkolucasr if he were here. jobi is the next best thing :)01:40
timelyxis it defined in a nokia header?01:40
alteregoIt's generated by the G_DEFINE_TYPE macro01:40
tkolucas, having written the python loader, is likely to be able to explain how those things are meant to be implemented01:41
alteregoBasically a whole section of hildon-desktop is missing.01:41
alteregoI can't find a single symbol ..01:41
timelyx#define glib very(evil)01:41
derfErr, wrong channel.01:41
tkomy initial guess is that you're just doing it wrong :)01:41
timelyx<google> did you mean Fumble?01:41
alteregoYeah, I'd half agree.01:41
tkobut since I don't know anything about the details, I'm not claiming that01:41
alteregoBut I've search _every_ shared object on my system for these symbols ..01:41
timelyxtko: you're not adventurous enough :)01:42
tkoalterego: did you look at the python loader?01:42
alteregoI've built the latest svn release of hildon-desktop too.01:42
alteregoThe loader isn't the problem.01:42
alteregoI'm either building it wrong. Or I'm right.01:42
derfMy wireless connection has been lagging pretty badly, so stuff shows up several seconds after I type it, which usually includes hitting Enter.01:42
alteregoIs the python loader even available for download?01:42
alteregoI've not seen it, just the source code.01:42
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tkopyphantom maybe01:44
K`zan_800686M by wireless goes on for a while.01:45
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K`zan_800Wish I knew where that was downloading to just to be sure it is really doing something.01:49
alteregotko, the symbols are in the intermediate output object file for the build. But I've _literally_ search every .so in the build and can't find the symbol in them.01:50
alteregoAnyone have any ideas how this could happen?01:50
alteregoHow does a chunk of library go missing :(01:50
derfOptimizing linker?01:51
alteregoOh .. This is interesting.01:51
derfSymbol visibility specifications?01:52
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alteregoGLOBAL DEFAULT :/01:52
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kaltsisomeone has defined a function but not implemented it and no-one happens to use it.. happens all the time01:52
alteregoIt's a get_type function generated by G_DEFINE_TYPE01:53
alteregoI's a shared library for god sake. Of course the function isn't going to be used.01:53
kaltsidunno what I'm talking about anyways, didn't ready anything :)01:54
kaltsiI mean if no-one has used it ever then no-one has come across this problem and that's how it could have slipped through the rigorous 24/7 automatic testing01:55
alteregoInteresting .. It's also in an executable called 'hildon-desktop'01:55
tkoalterego: I told you that like an hour ago01:57
alteregoWhat did you tell me an hour ago01:58
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tkothat the function is in executable01:58
alteregoWait, I thought you were saying it was in _my_ executable.01:59
alteregoAre you talking about the UND?01:59
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alteregoOr the _real_ function location?01:59
tkothe real one, the one declared in the URL I pasted01:59
tkoUND just means you're referring to it IIRC02:00
alteregoWould you mind pasting the link again :)02:00
alteregoI must have missed it ..02:00
alterego(not in back buffer either)02:00
tkobleh.. search for the function name in google and it's the first one02:01
tko(or the first link is to an older tag, but it's trivial to find the latest version)02:01
alteregoOh, you mean the source file?02:01
alteregoRight, now I get you.02:01
alteregoThat doesn't matter. I've been staring at that file for ages.02:01
alteregoOkay, so it's in an executable. And I'm supposed to link against that ..02:03
tkofrom the looks of it I'm almost certain the function is implemented in hildon-desktop and thus is available for all plugins02:03
alteregoYes, I've seen it implemented in hildon-desktop.02:03
alteregoSo what do I do to access it?02:03
tkojust use it?02:04
alteregoDo I directly link against that executable? Or is there a pkg-config?02:04
tkoif you build a shared library (plugin) and call the function it should just work02:05
elbalterego: it sounds like you're building as an executable, and not a library02:05
alteregoIt doesn't.02:05
elblibraries are allowed to have unresolved symbols, executables (by default) are not02:06
alteregoI know.02:06
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alteregoHmm ..02:06
alteregoOkay, my dummy factory plugin loader wouldn't load because hildon-desktop isn't included.02:06
tkoI wonder what the original error message was in the first place02:07
alteregoThere wasn't one.02:07
alteregoWell, when the plugin was trying to load, I got: "no loader for plugin type: ruby" or some such.02:07
alteregoI did post this on the mailing list last week ..02:08
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* alterego tries again with his skeleton plugin loader plugin.02:10
alteregoI'm getting a different error this time :)02:11
alteregoThat .. Is a good thing.02:11
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alteregoNice my loader killed hildon-desktop!02:18
alteregoThat probably should be allowed to happen :/02:19
alterego~shouldn't ..02:19
pupnikanybody with a n800 / n810 want to try new dosbox?  it should be a touch faster02:20
alteregopupnik, sure.02:21
pupniki put the mapper.txt into cwd right now - eventually will set up dosbox.conf and mapper.txt to go into /etc or something02:21
_Monkey2008 is probably the year of the open handheld/phone02:21
pupnikit should be work... dunno if it can run on 200802:22
pupnikwith the fullscreen key you can toggle fullscreen to use xkbd, which launches automatically now at startup02:22
pupnikor just click it away if it annoys02:22
alteregoI can't install it. I don't think it'll work on 2008 ;)02:22
alteregoAnd I like 2008 too much to go back to 2007 O_O02:23
pupnikhmm.  dpkg -i dosbox*.deb should do it02:23
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alteregoCool, it's working :)02:34
pupnikplease flag me if you see any crashes or serious problems02:37
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K`zan_800RX packets:171961 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:002:51
K`zan_800about 1/5th the way through the map download now, perhaps by tomorrow morning...02:52
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K`zan_800Would be nice to be able to download it to the desktop and USB it over...02:58
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GeneralAntillesIt'll keep failing if you don't have the extra space03:18
GeneralAntillesmultiply whatever you're trying to install by two.03:18
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pupnikso for downloading maps maybe a 4GB sdhc card is needed?03:21
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hircuspupnik: what mapping app?03:25
hircusthe N810 only has 2GB internal SD, and it's supposedly only 80% full for the US map set03:25
acydlordi cant download the US west mapset to my n800 :(03:26
acydlordi should probably make some room on my internal card03:26
pupniki aunno03:27
pupnikjust lots of people in channel complaining about download problems lately03:27
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acydlordnokia should offer sd or mini-sd cards with map sets preloaded03:31
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elbso, am I understanding things right, that writing an Xlib-based application to be run on the Hildon desktop would require some Hildon-ized glue?03:44
pupnikxkbd is pure xlib afaik03:45
pupnikto start from a menu you need some wrapper at least03:45
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elba launcher or what-have-you is no trouble03:46
elbbut, there's a Tk application I use every day, and I'm hoping I can get urxvt fired up03:46
derfIf you want vkb input, you'll have to do some work.03:47
elbthe on-screen keyboard?03:47
elb... I guess that means it doesn't speak XIM03:47
elbcurse all these modern environments for reinventing the wheel in nonportable ways03:48
derfThey have their own protocol for managing when the keyboard is shown, and what window keystrokes go to, etc.03:48
elb(no that XIM doesn't completely suck, but all the modern toolkits invent their *own* input methods)03:48
elbso what's the story for handwriting recognition?03:50
elbI've seen it mentioned a couple of places, but very little information about it03:50
derfI have no idea. I don't use the stock input method at all.03:50
GeneralAntillesThe handwriting is garbage.03:51
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GeneralAntilles(at least from a Newton user's perspective)03:51
GeneralAntillesI primarily use the thumbboard.03:51
derfIt turns out that handwriting recognition is really hard.03:51
GeneralAntillesWell, Apple managed to nail it in 199603:53
GeneralAntillesSo I'm not sure what the excuse is 10 years later.03:53
elbI only used a Newton a couple of times, but I was not impressed03:54
drcoffeehow about bt kybrd? how does  it differ from screen kybrd??03:54
elbspeaking of keyboards, is yours missing keys?03:54
GeneralAntillesYou may have used one of the old ones.03:55
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GeneralAntillesThe 2000-series or better are the ones with good handwriting recognition.03:55
elbI used the last-generation eWhatever03:55
drcoffeei am  using the toothpick to type03:55
GeneralAntillesOnce you got that thing trained up, it was unbelievable.03:55
GeneralAntillesPrint completely natural.03:55
elbwhen they made the folding newtons with keyboards03:56
GeneralAntilles(cursive interpretter wasn't as good)03:56
derfCursive is _really_ hard.03:56
elbI think taht's the thing -- if you didn't train them for 2000 years, they sucked03:56
GeneralAntillesI took all of my notes in high school with a 2100.03:56
derfI happen to be doing research in handwriting recognition for my job.03:56
elband I never used one for long enough to train it that well03:56
GeneralAntillesTook a couple days to get it up to speed.03:56
derfThough, not for English.03:56
GeneralAntillesThen, tell me, derf, why has everything since the Newton sucked balls? :P03:57
* elb smells "nothing will ever be as good as my Amiga" complex ;-)03:57
elbI was actually pretty fond of Graffiti03:57
elbbecause it was so accurate03:57
elbI don't mind learning a simplified writing if it works well03:58
GeneralAntillesNow that's creepy.03:58
GeneralAntillesVoice synthesis just spat some kind of jibberish at me.03:58
derfBecause the academics are all too busy pumping out PhD theses to worry about solving practical problems, and the practitioners don't have enough training to actually know what they're doing.03:58
GeneralAntillesThe Newton's problem was size.03:58
drcoffeewhat was interesting about the recognition engine for the later Newtons, is that it was developed for a Mac product that got cancelled.03:59
GeneralAntillesBut it's exactly that size that made it reasonable to write on.03:59
GeneralAntilles(Where the hell did I hide my message pads? :\)03:59
drcoffeethe recog. engine is now part of OSX... if you use a Wacom or similar you can access it04:00
derfAnyway, these days people consider the roman alphabet largely a solved problem.04:00
rhykinanyone know where I can pick up a maemo development vmware image?04:04
drcoffeeone of the major problems with most PDAs, is how difficult it was to connect to other machines (what I called "speed bumps") The Palm model of Conduits was as bad as the Newton sync app.04:04
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drcoffeerhykin, look on the VMWare website04:04
drcoffee(though I like keyboards.... still have an eMate somewhere)04:05
lophytehey all04:06
drcoffeederf. don't knock academics until you put yourself through the process.... and we do make contributions to real life problems04:07
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derfdrcoffee: I have a PhD.04:08
_Monkeyhola, lopz04:09
drcoffeeok, then complain.... I am procrastinating finishing an article.... should be grading midterms instead.04:10
derfAnd I'm reading someone's PhD thesis while procrastinating finishing up this contract work.04:11
elband I'm just procrastinating on working on my thesis ;-)04:12
drcoffeea fine tuned skill that comes from years of sitting on the hind quarter in front of computers, meetings, etc.04:13
drcoffeeanyway, I am trying to find out how the BT keyboard gets read. I am finding it quite unpredictable, the delay and repeat rates are set too low and I don't seem to find a way of adjusting the proper parameters (bug #2166... tried the usual things, but to no avail)04:15
_MonkeyBug 2166 might be found at
drcoffeeMonkey.... any ideas regarding #2166?04:16
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elbstupid infobots04:16
drcoffeeso, the last time I dealt with keyboards, was when ADB was the Mac standard....04:17
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drcoffeeis Monkey an infobot? (I don't use irc's often)04:19
elbit saw 'bug #nnnn' and responded04:20
elbit's a particularly annoying infobot, because it regularly responds to phrases not directed to it04:20
drcoffeestupid monkey04:23
derfdrcoffee, elb:
drcoffeeso as you can gather, I filed the bug and have not received much of an answer. I have a bit of time (ok, I am procrastinating) and would like to understand how the bt keyboard events get processessssed04:29
hircusderf: interesting04:30
elbderf: hah04:32
derfWhen I first read that, I was like, this is the story of my life.04:34
drcoffeeI'll read it later... when I haave time04:35
drcoffeeI wonder iif my file cabinet's 3rd drawer  is organized?04:36
derfThere's only one way to find out.04:36
derfAnd I'm pretty sure it involves wiring your file cabinet up with a serial connection and putting it on a web page.04:37
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acydlordwhen is nokia ever going to add MST/Arizona to the osso clock04:37
acydlordtotally screws the time zones04:38
drcoffeeno no, that was already done with the coke machine at MIT (they really have too much time on their hands....)04:39
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derfmy favorite was the guy who did it with the light switch in his dorm room.04:40
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drcoffeeI was thinking more about writing a proposal for a ethnomethodological study on organizational research.... I could hire undergrads... write a couple of articles, yeah, that sounds like the ticket04:41
drcoffeeanyway, I should go make some headway on my real work (after a side trip to the espresso machine... not only do I drink coffee, I pull really cool shots and have a killer machine and grinder to help me procrastinate.... life is too short to drink swill)04:45
elbI roast my own04:46
elbmostly to procrastinate ;-)04:46
drcoffeeI train roasters and baristas04:46
elbI need to roast a batch tonight04:46
elbdown to about one more pot04:46
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pupniksomebody help me05:27
pupnikwe need a decent keyboard input method for sdl applications05:28
K`zanwhatcha need pupnik05:28
K`zanNot sure I can help you there :-(.05:28
pupniki'm too stupid to do it05:28
K`zanWish my USB keyboard would work :)05:28
pupnikif all maemo people suddenly bought n810s, the problem would be solved05:29
pupnikand i sincerely thank Nokia for making the N81005:29
K`zanAin't gonna happen here - not anytime soon that is.05:29
pupnikyeah well05:29
GeneralAntillesBut then I would have no storage. :(05:29
pupnikanother thing that would work would be for a button combination to raise the hildon keyboard05:30
pupnikthat would then type to any X app - sdl, xlib or gtk05:30
K`zanEven with one of the fold up USB keyboards, I am still a LONG way from the price of an 810.05:30
K`zanBT keyboards :)05:30
pupnikwell K`zan just get a bluetooth keyboar05:30
K`zanYep, gonna have to...05:30
pupnikGeneralAntilles: can you try new dosbox on n800 pls05:31
K`zanUnless I can hack a mini-usb on my usb keyboard and have it work.05:31
GeneralAntillesI don't have anything handy to run on it.05:31
pupnikoh ON IT05:32
GeneralAntillesCool, thanks.05:33
pupnikthe dosbox gurus spent a lot of time with me to make it work on Nokia05:37
pupnikthey deserve some thanks05:37
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GeneralAntillesWhere do I need to navigate to to get to the ultima4 folder on my external SD card?05:45
* GeneralAntilles is the biggest DOS n00b ever.05:46
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lophyte \/media/mmc2/ultima4 ?05:46
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GeneralAntillesOK, mounted c as /media/mmc1/05:47
GeneralAntillesOK, I'm in the right folder05:48
GeneralAntillesNow how do I launch it, pupnik? :D05:48
pupnikum dosbox05:49
_Monkeywell, dosbox is about as fast as an IBM XT/AT, available at
pupnikgrah that's old05:49
pupniki launch dosbox from xterm from /home/user05:50
pupnikand i put the dosbox.conf and mapper.txt there too05:50
GeneralAntillesI'm in dosbox05:50
pupnikcheck my page for some info05:50
pupnikthen you can mount a directory05:50
pupnikmount d: /media/mmc1/my/dos/game/path05:50
pupnikthen type d:05:50
pupnikto switch to that drive05:50
pupnikthen type the name of the executeable to run05:51
GeneralAntillesI suppose I should buy a bluetooth keyboard at some point.05:54
lophyteyeah I'm thinking about it05:57
lophyteI looked at bluetooth headphones... never realized how expensive they are05:57
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pupnikthat's baloney,06:04
pupnikbluetooth keyboard is godly06:04
pupnikheadphones are two wires and speakers06:04
lophyteBT headphones are like >$9506:06
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pupnikand nothing works with them06:09
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pupnikdon't be arrogant because you have shoes06:36
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GeneralAntillesI will be and there's nothing you can do about it. :P06:50
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pupnikit is an accident of birth06:53
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ffoegboyHas anybody connected a freedom universal bluetooth keyboard to the N800?07:25
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K`zanAnyone know if a USB keyboard, with USB<->Mini-USB adapter would work on the n800?07:27
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GeneralAntillesIf it had enough power, K`zan.07:31
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KaervakHas anyone else been unable to change the language on the latest OS2007 Hacker Edition for the N770?  The error I get it "Device storage memory full, Remove Data to free memory"07:39
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l7K`zan: thoughtfix made a video where he got a usb keyboard to work07:47
l7look on youtube for his tablet laptop project07:47
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l7it required some fancy splicing of the usb cable to a power source07:48
K`zanWhat do I have to do to allow myself to ssh into the user account on the n800, keep getting "permission denied, please try again".  I did log in as root and change user's passwd...07:48
GeneralAntillesJust use root07:49
GeneralAntillesand su from there.07:49
K`zanah, OK.07:49
K`zanSilly message - denied and try again - is denied not denied - perhaps "Not allowed" would make more sense :-).07:49
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K`zanWould like to get those bookmarks out and arrange them without tapping for the next six months :)07:50
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K`zanNo modules so I rather doubt that any USB devices are going to work with the n800 :-/.08:05
GeneralAntillesOTG stuff should be fine.08:05
GeneralAntilleson the go08:06
K`zanYou mean the BT stuff?08:06
GeneralAntillesBasically, it introduces negotiation for host08:06
GeneralAntillesNo, USB08:06
* K`zan confused08:06
GeneralAntillesWhich, really, is just USB trying to pretend to be Firewire.08:06
K`zanunless it is everything module wise built into kernel.08:07
K`zanAh thanks, checking.08:07
hircusGeneralAntilles: USB trying to be Firewire is a good thing, surely08:10
hircusif only they did that from the beginning08:10
K`zanI wonder if I hack a mini-USB on a USB keyboard if it would work?!?08:10
GeneralAntillesIt still needs power.08:11
GeneralAntillesSo if it has power, yes.08:11
K`zanThat is easy enough with the piles of batteries and wall warts around here :)08:11
K`zanI that will work I am off to make it up!08:12
hircusthere are those 6-pin-to-4-pin Firewire cables that come with a power adapter, right?08:12
hircussomeone should make the same one for USB-to-mini08:12
K`zantapping is fine for on the go, but...08:12
hircusK`zan: tried a typing test yet? I'd love to know the speed ratio between N810 built-in, a Bluetooth travel keyboard and a full-sized, full-depth keyboard08:12
K`zanhircus: Got to make up one first :-).08:13
GeneralAntillesI figure I'm running about 40wpm on the thumbboard on the N800.08:13
K`zanGot the keyboard, a cable with a mini-usb to hack and I just need to figure out the power aspect of it.08:13
hircusGeneralAntilles: that's really decent08:16
GeneralAntillesThe key is to use your fingertips (exactly the opposite of what you do on the iPhone).08:17
hircusGeneralAntilles: where you use your.. er.. finger pads?08:19
* hircus wondering about finger smudging .. ugh08:20
GeneralAntillesThe iPhone doesn't like small stylus-like inputs08:20
GeneralAntillesIt's actually not bad08:20
GeneralAntillesunless you wander around wish a melted Hersheys bar in your hands all day, the iPhone stays fairly clean.08:20
hircuswell, if you have greasy fingers then you'll spend a lot of time wiping the screen08:20
GeneralAntilles(of note, I don't actually own an iPhone, but I did have to get my mother's setup ;))08:20
hircusI've briefly tried a friend's, plus trying it in the shop (hint: AT&T, if you chain your iPhone with a short cable, it makes trying it out really awkward)08:21
hircusfunny, though. tell iPhone fans that it's not open and they're quick to say "but the SDK is coming in February!"08:25
GeneralAntillesWell, it is. :)08:27
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hircusGeneralAntilles: I know. but still, it struck me that Apple fans don't mind monopolistic behavior as long as it's not Microsoft's :)08:35
GeneralAntillesNow that's a misuse of a term if I ever heard one. ;)08:36
GeneralAntillesIn order to behave monopolistically, you have to have a monopoly.08:36
GeneralAntillesClosed and proprietary behavior is what it is.08:36
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hircusApple has a monopoly on iPhone software08:37
hircusah yes, ok08:37
K`zanOK, I think I have the circuit worked out...08:37
GeneralAntillesI'm saving my determination on the iPhone for the end of next year.08:38
hircusmy main interaction with Apple right now, as an ex-Mac user, is some cursing whenever I see a podcast site that does not have an RSS feed but has an iTunes subscribe button08:39
* GeneralAntilles is a current user.08:40
* hircus would have been a current user had Apple updated the Macbooks properly, back in May08:40
GeneralAntillesLaptops are garbage. ;)08:40
hircusGeneralAntilles: laptops are the new desktops08:41
GeneralAntillesThere's always OSx86.08:41
hircusthey are portable workstations :)08:41
hircusGeneralAntilles: no thanks. I'm happy with Linux08:41
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GeneralAntillesI've tried Linux08:43
GeneralAntillesI like my desktop environments to work on the first try.08:43
GeneralAntillesI just don't have the time or the patience to deal with all that extra bullshit.08:43
GeneralAntillesEspecially when it doesn't particularly come with any real benefit.08:43
hircusGeneralAntilles: after a while, I can say the same about Windows08:43
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GeneralAntillesYeah, but Windows doesn't have bash.08:44
hircusone got to be a bit careful with hardware purchases, but otherwise -- heck, even on Windows, installing an HP printer is a painful experience08:44
hircusthey have that powershell thing -- quite good from what I've seen08:45
hircusbenefit of Linux vs Mac .. depends on your use case, I'd say.08:45
hircusbut I'll grant you that for most users, if they can afford a Mac and a more closed platform, go for it08:46
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GeneralAntillesIt's open where it matters for me.08:46
GeneralAntillesI just wish graphics cards weren't such a pain.08:48
K`zancrap, that usb keyboard I saved turned out to be PS2, I gave the wrong one to the thrift store...08:49
K`zanCan get one from same place for about $3.08:50
K`zanWill tomorrow.08:50
K`zanOr Monday.08:50
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hircusK`zan: they'll probably let you swap one for the other?08:50
K`zanWould be incredibly cool if this works.08:50
K`zan$3 I can afford even with gov bloodsucking, $130 for a BT one is going to take a while :-/.08:51
K`zanShame the fold up one for the PalmV / IBM C3 won't work.08:52
K`zanReally nice little portable keyboard.08:52
hircusK`zan: $130?? I bought my Stowaway for.. $70 or so08:52
hircusthe Nokia BT keyboard is rather overpriced08:52
K`zanBest price I have seen, still beyond budget for a while though :-(.08:54
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hircusK`zan: ah. I got myself the older Think Outside model. not the Sierra08:55
hircusweird, mobileplanet only stocks the TO Sierra08:55
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hircusah duh. mine is the TO iGo :P08:59
K`zanWhat is the command to show memory usage, I must be getting senile - I can get it off top, but...09:06
K`zanDuhhh, thanks :-)!09:07
hircusK`zan: free ?09:08
K`zanYes, thanks.09:08
K`zanAlready into swap...09:08
K`zan  Mem:       126828       112476        14352            0          80009:08
K`zan Swap:       131064          260       13080409:09
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GeneralAntillesDon't worry about it.09:11
GeneralAntillesMemory will be freed if its needed09:11
K`zanWhat ,me worry?09:11
l7would it be worth it to upgrade that mmc card?09:12
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K`zanI don't think so, max you can reallocate is 128M09:13
K`zanSD size doesn't appear to matter.09:13
zoranK`zan, r u talking about swap space?09:15
K`zanI think so :)09:15
zoranyou think it has some limitation?09:15
K`zanFrom control panel anyway, probably not at the CLI09:16
zoranI thought the only lim is the room you gave it09:16
K`zanStill am not at a full understanding of the difference between embedd and "normal"09:17
zorannot sure for flash09:17
GeneralAntilles128 is the max you can assign in the GUI.09:17
zoranah, k09:17
K`zanUnder Control-Panel -> memory->virtual max is 128M09:17
GeneralAntillesYou really don't need more.09:17
zoranbut it is just a button on the gui09:17
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GeneralAntillesThe flash is slow enough that more wouldn't help.09:17
K`zanshould be 2x "ram" ??09:17
K`zanWhich should make it 256M here...09:17
GeneralAntillesJust leave it.09:18
zorank, I rarely use swap09:18
K`zanYes Sir! :-)09:18
K`zanNot much into it...09:18
GeneralAntillesIf there were some benefit to be had, by increasing it, somebody woulda put together a script.09:18
zoranprobably not an issue on device like this; it is on servers09:19
K`zanOh, does anyone know if "Map" in 2008 is the same as maemo mapper?09:19
GeneralAntillesActually, striping it between the internal and external sounds fun.09:19
GeneralAntillesIt's not, K`zan.09:19
GeneralAntillesIt's the Wayfinder stuff.09:19
K`zanAh, want to look at that when it gets ported.09:19
GeneralAntillesHang on09:19
K`zanMap seems a bit clunky, but then again those things do a lot withi 160 bogos :)09:20
GeneralAntillesLet me pull it from the logs.09:21
K`zanStanding by.09:21
ol_schoolaI put 2008 Map against a brand new Magellan. It wasn't pretty.09:23
zorannot the same kind of device09:24
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ol_schoolaLast night I loaded m-mapper and all i can say is, wow09:24
ol_schoolazoran: of course, but i was putting it into perspective to what a real world audience would see09:24
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GeneralAntillesWhy the hell can't Colloquy dump the logs in plaintext?09:25
zoranI think the real audience are kids with multimedia in minds09:25
GeneralAntillesI can't find the link09:26
GeneralAntilleschelli did a port09:26
GeneralAntillesbut these logs are garbage.09:26
ol_schoolathere's that but i was still speaking from the navigation crowd perspective, so i see your point09:26
zoranmac chat client?09:26
GeneralAntillesIt's good minus the shitty logging.09:26
ol_schoolai've been following this channel for just over a week and -- as usual -- it's easier to use the web archives to extract useable data ;)09:27
zoranthere are some plugins for colloquy09:27
ol_schoolado tell...09:27
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Thanks checking now.09:28
ol_schoolathe mbp and n800 are both very new to me. so many things to learn....09:28
K`zanI presume I want the .deb ?09:29
K`zanYep :-)09:30
K`zanUnable to install, some app pkgs rqd are missing.09:30
GeneralAntillesYou may have luck adding the bora repo.09:31
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ol_schoolahah, got me too. i'm just about six days riper than K-man09:32
K`zanI can wait.09:32
ol_schoolanah, just add   bora and all is fine09:32
ol_schoola'free non-free' i think?09:33
GeneralAntillesfree non-free extras09:33
K`zanerrr, ah, um, well...09:33
ol_schoolaextras? i missed that09:33
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GeneralAntillesBut it can't hurt.09:33
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K`zanAdding that repository does what - lets the install chase down the library out of the old release?09:35
ol_schoolaK`zan: egg-sact-ly09:36
ol_schoolain other words, it makes it happy09:36
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K`zanI see but no extras09:38
GeneralAntillesAdd it to your application catalogs.09:38
K`zanor should I just manually add it as
ol_schoolajust put 'free non-free' below the URL, forget extras for now09:39
K`zanor should I just manually add it as
GeneralAntillesNo09:40 sounds better09:40
GeneralAntillesfree non-free extras09:40
GeneralAntillesTrust me here. ;)09:40
ol_schoolaextras isn't needed,/me after re-edumacation, ol_schoola agrees with General09:41
ol_schoolaGeneralAntilles: I've had little time in the last couple of days to keep track09:41
GeneralAntillesI've had 2 years. :D09:41
ol_schoolamaemo site went down, right? back up again?09:41
K`zanSStrangely enough I have that repository09:41
GeneralAntillesIt was down Friday-Saturday morning.09:42
GeneralAntillesUS EST09:42
K`zanNot disabled, so it should have picked up the library?09:42
GeneralAntillesHit refresh.09:42
ol_schoolaok, is there an RSS feed that keeps track of such things like this? announcements of 07->08 portings? stuff like that?09:42
zoranfor me it was quick as never09:42
_Monkeyplanet is dead again...09:42
GeneralAntillesbut not really.09:42
K`zanLooks like it kept the repositories I put in under 2007 ?!?09:43
GeneralAntillesThat's what backup does.09:43
GeneralAntillesDunno why it wouldn't be finding it.09:43
K`zanOk, refreshed, try the mm install again.09:43
GeneralAntillesCould try an apt-get install libgdm3 as root.09:43
ol_schoolathat worked for me09:44 is fast I cannot believe09:44
K`zanpt-get install libgdbm309:45
K`zanwoiks :)09:45
K`zanNot to try mm again.09:45
ol_schoolazoran: seems that way09:46
K`zanSince that worked: apt-get install kde :-)09:47
ol_schoolai've got a pile of pieces/parts that want to become a new mythtv master backend09:47
ol_schoolai can't seem to find the motivation09:47
zoranK`zan, u have kde on now?09:48
K`zanNo, I don't, just kidding :)09:48
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K`zanNot on the N800 anyway - everything else here but the laptop has it though.09:48
ol_schoolahmm, how do themes work across releases? easier question: where are the good themes for 2008?09:50
GeneralAntillesJust wait09:50
zoranheh, the matter of taste09:50
GeneralAntillesBig UI changes for OS200809:50
GeneralAntillesI like Glasser, though.09:50
ol_schoolai thought i saw a screenshot of a 08 app with a funky theme09:51
zorangui stylists like strong colors, as I see09:51
GeneralAntilles <- Glasser09:51
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ol_schoolai gravitate toward the mellower of themes09:51
ol_schoolaprefer incadescent over flourescent09:52
zoranyes, the simpler, the better09:52
K`zanCool, I can run gpsd on the laptop and get at my GPSMAP76CS that way - kind of dumb - all I have done is add the N800 to the laptop and GPS to lug around...09:52
zoranor ask nasa to locate your position in 3d09:53
K`zanflite runs on the N800?  Wow.09:53
K`zanMy sister in law retired here a few years ago, don't know anyone there anymore :(.09:53
GeneralAntillesI always forget to turn it off when I'm listening to audio books in the car.09:53
GeneralAntillesThen in blares on unimaginably loud.09:54
GeneralAntillesScares the crap outta me.09:54
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K`zanWonder if MM also loads flite.09:55
zoranf for finish?09:55
K`zanDidn't see it in any of the repositories I looked at.09:55
K`zanvoice synth, light version09:56
zoranwith all intergration, n810 has no phone, which would be easier than gps09:57
ol_schoolanot by a long shot09:59
ol_schoolagps is embedded on a chip for all practical purposes09:59
ol_schoolaphone requires several subsystems, many on their own chips09:59
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gla55_political decision anyhow10:00
ol_schoolanokia has an idea of what they're doing10:00
zoranthey probably know what are they doing10:00
ol_schoolajust wish they'd give us a little better idea of their idea10:00
K`zanBest choice of maps for MM?  What is comes with is pretty grainy and no roads either.10:01
GeneralAntillesGoogle sat/maps10:01
ol_schoolastart with google, compare adainst VE, add hybrid if you have a really big card10:01
zoranmust to say that I would never need maps, till i saw them available10:01
K`zanGot two sets if repositories, cleaning it up...10:02
ol_schoolagoogle sat pics always have the grass and trees looking brown and dead, ve has them very green10:02
zoranbtw, the big competitor could be asus eee pc10:02
GeneralAntillesThe Eee isn't pocketable.10:03
zorandepends of pocket size10:03
GeneralAntillesThe NEWTON depended on pocket size.10:03
GeneralAntillesThe Asus is hardly better than a laptop. ;)10:03
ol_schoolai had a Newton10:03
GeneralAntillesI have two. :D10:03
GeneralAntillesThere are no competitors for the NITs.10:04
ol_schoolaah hah! i KNEW you had some grey hairs!10:04
GeneralAntillesI bought them on ebay.10:05
ol_schoolaa most intriguing yet unuseable device10:05
zorangray hairs?10:05
GeneralAntillesUsed mine in high school 2001-2006 ;)10:05
ol_schoolaif you had a Newton when it first came out, odds are, you are sporting the starts of gray10:05
ol_schoolacrap, HS was 82-86 for me10:05
* GeneralAntilles is 20.10:05
ol_schoolathey came around in, what, 96?10:07
_Monkeywell, Original is fine, converted is not10:07
GeneralAntillesThe 2000 was 199610:07
ol_schoolai'm git'in really ole....10:07
kulvezerojay: did you sort out the sid-support problem?10:08
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zorantalking about old hardware, I'm logged now on cray y/mp10:11
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K`zan_800Night folks! Thanks for all.10:36
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ol_schoolazoran: this was the starting point for my twice weekly foothills run when i lived out west10:42
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keesjis there video calling on the n810?11:40
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JaffaMorning, all12:04
keesjHi Jaffa12:04
Jaffalo keesj12:05
JaffaHow's this morning?12:06
mshhm. any rumours when nokia're going to actually start selling n810s?12:06
JaffaThere're rumours it can be bought by phone in the US already; with some confusion over shipping dates.12:07
mshah, preorder style?12:08
* Jaffa 's expectation is the middle of next week; Texrat says it's been "well-advertised" it's been delayed a week; but a) we don't know when the original date was; b) he's the only source12:08
JaffaRight, today's jobs - once showered - are to finish off the mediautils website, make mediaserv aware of both 770-encode and tablet-encode and put out v0.0512:10
keesjYea, I also need to start doing something :p12:22
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tapo has errors12:22
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keesjThe site is slow , full or errors and a real pain when logged in. not much fun I would say12:23
keesjjust not proffesional i would say12:24
keesjit redifines the worl wide waiting12:25
keesjbut the app catalogue is cool :p12:25
kulvekeesj: did you already vote in bug #2308? :)12:25
_MonkeyBug 2308 might be found at
keesjjust done!12:27
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keesjand now I need to apply for a job at maemo :P12:31
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unique311keesj, you the dev for mamona?12:36
keesjI the what?12:36
keesjunique311: did compile mamona and install it.12:38
unique311how is it treating you?12:38
keesjIt feels great to have a fully self compiled system running.12:39
unique311was thing about trying out different stuff rumored to be working on the n800 while waiting on the new os to come out.12:39
keesjit also opens the door to using recent compilers etc. I guess what really would be great is to have the hidlon stuff into mamona/oe12:40
unique311can you install stuff compile for os200712:42
keesjI did not try that I guess not since the libs are more recent and it's not based on the same debian packages12:43
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unique311well going to give it a try.12:44
unique311just hope i don't screw up my n800 before the os2008 comes out.12:44
keesjit did not replace the kernel, but I had a dual boot setup that was messed up :(12:45
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unique311i want to give angstrom a go12:47
keesjunique311: yea. idem here.12:48
keesjbut mamona is also oe based so it was a good start. I also am trying to run angstrom on a 2430osk board as we speak12:49
_Monkeyokay, keesj.12:49
keesjidem dito = the same here12:49
unique311koen, need documentation on how to install12:49
unique311hefty price tag on that thing.12:51
rafldoes Ian Lawrence happen to be in this channel?12:51
keesjyes. it's not mine :p12:52
monkeyiqHi, anyone know if the opensuse build system has support for maemo?12:53
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monkeyiqI am sort of toying with either using bitbake or obs to build packages... but I tend to do more desktop/server packaging so obs might be a better bit12:55
keesjis ther any build system with support for maemo?12:57
keesjunique311: do you want to try microb on mamona?12:58
monkeyiqOE has conf/distro/maemo-1.0.conf but I've not looked into it yet12:58
unique311its not installed yet12:58
unique311but i'll take a link.12:58
unique311i'm also in #mamona12:58
keesjyou need to ask koen about it there are also n800 an 770 definitions12:59
unique311give me the link there12:59
raflwhy is maemos glib compiled without thread support?12:59
tkorafl: ?13:01
raflg_thread_supported returns FALSE13:01
tkoit doesn't mean what you think it means13:01
raflso what does it mean?13:02
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tkosee g_thread_init above13:02
tkoit really should be named g_thread_initialized or something13:03
raflthen I wonder why an applikation using g_thread_init fails to compile due to linking errors13:03
rafli.e. int main (...) { g_thread_init (NULL); return 0; }13:05
raflother glib functions seem to work well though13:05
tkoyou're not linking with gthread?13:06
xan-afkuse the output of pkg-config --libs gthread-2.0 to link...13:07
rafloh noes13:07
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raflI wonder why dpkg-deb --control could fail on the device while it works well with the same package within the sdk as well as with a normal debian system13:17
rafl"unexpected end of file in version number in $package" is what it says.13:18
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raflhooray! liferea on maemo 4 :-)13:39
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timelyx _monk forget but manona13:42
timelyx _monkey forget but manona13:42
_Monkeytimelyx, I didn't have anything matching but manona13:42
timelyx _monkey forget  manona13:42
_Monkeytimelyx, I didn't have anything matching manona13:42
timelyx _monkey forget but mamona13:43
_Monkeytimelyx, I didn't have anything matching but mamona13:43
timelyx _monkey forget mamona13:43
_Monkeytimelyx: I forgot mamona13:43
timelyxwell, it won't be anything now :)13:44
* timelyx should have asked _Monkey what it was first..13:44
unique311i just flashed it...aside from looking good...13:45
unique311can do anything with it.13:45
unique311but its running.13:45
unique311animated wallpaper and all13:45
timelyxi thought that the goal of oss was to look pretty and do pretty much nothing13:45
timelyxdoes it burn battery nicely?13:45
unique311its still aalive on battery13:45
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unique311i'll let you know13:45
unique311don't have it plugged in.13:46
raflI wonder what I fucked up in order for all things to look like normal gtk instead of the way I'm used to from maemo13:48
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murrayc_rafl: Are you using
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raflI'm using whatever maemo uses on this device to run things13:53
raflalso some applications still look like they used to13:54
raflbut the browser, for example, doesn't13:54
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murrayc_Oh, I thought you were developing rather than just using.14:03
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lophytemorning all16:20
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konttorihey, is there glade support for python on the device?16:38
alteregoAs far as I know .. Yes.16:39
konttoriahh... good.16:39
konttorican't find it mentioned in the components:
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Juhazkonttori, it's part of pygtk16:44
konttoriahh... good. thanks!16:44
konttorithis is actually great news.16:44
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konttoriI decided to waste some time making pysqlitegui to work properly on the device and extend its functionalities a bit16:45
konttoriI was fearing that I'd have to re-write the GUI to use gtk directly instead of through glade16:45
konttorisaves a lot of time.16:45
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JaffaComments welcome on the finished site for tablet-encode/mediaserv:
timelyxJaffa: s/playback/play back/16:52
keesjJaffa: I would try to make more clear that is a web-application / pc component16:52
keesjit's not because it's called mediaserver that it does not run on the maemo platform16:52
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keesjfunny video16:52
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Jaffakeesj: good point16:54
Jaffatimelyx: fair enough16:54
keesjjust about the software , I guess that nokia has included some sort for mime type to add rss video feeds to the media-server16:55
timelyxJaffa: you're missing from backchannel16:55
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sys_n800can someone please tell me, how to lunch a console on the nokia n800?17:11
zoranfrom menu on the left side of the screen17:11
zoranif you installed it17:11
kaltsiyou need to install osso-xterm17:11
timelyxthe same way you launch anything else you've installed? :) some installation required :)17:12
kaltsiinstall it from here
alteregoHe's probably not installed it ..17:12
sys_n800kk i see, going to install it, thx17:12
timelyx02:18 alterego Nice my loader killed hildon-desktop!17:13
timelyx02:19 alterego That probably should[n't] be allowed to happen :/17:13
timelyxalterego: if you write a kernel module, should it be allowed to cause a kernel panic?17:13
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alteregoNo, I don't think that should be allowed to happen either.17:14
timelyxdesktop plugins are to hildon-desktop what kernel modules are to kernels17:14
timelyxi wonder if linus would say you shouldn't be allowed to write kernel modules :)17:14
alteregoSo you think it's okay that anyone can write a plugin that crashes the whole desktop?17:15
timelyx(he might not, i dunno)17:15
timelyxi think most people who do write plugins do write plugins that crash the desktop17:15
timelyxi've used quite a few of them17:15
timelyxi've also gotten them to improve the behavior wrt that17:15
elbthe benefit of using a loaded scripting language is that the loader designer can work to prevent that in many, most, or all cases17:16
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sys_n800do i have to set a root pw to make su?17:17
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timelyxthe root password is well known17:17
timelyxyou might consider changing it17:17
alteregoIt's your mothers' maiden name.17:17
zoransudoers file is the one that man should read first, not to be suprised all the time17:19
sys_n800where is this file?17:20
zoranheh, in /etc17:20
timelyxman sudoers ?17:20
timelyxoddly, linux is supposed to have documentation, even for files17:20
timelyxalthough, don't try this on a device17:21
zoranthat file took 10 years of my life when I got the device17:21
sys_n800i tried man, but is not installed17:21
zorangoogle for it17:21
kaltsisys_n800: do you want to use sudo or just get root access?17:22
zoransomeone encountered unicos? I need manual for it17:22
kulvehow do I turn off the display on n800?17:23
timelyxkulve: acpi/dsme17:23
kulvetimelyx: was that a hint, a guess or what?17:24
sys_n800i want to edit sources.list.... and thouht setting a root pw would be nice17:24
timelyxkulve: been there, read that17:24
zoranvia ssh should be the easiest way17:24
kulvesys_n800: install ssh, login through ssh as root,  change the passwd, edit the file17:24
timelyxsys_n800: wrong17:24
timelyxapplication manager will edit sources.list17:24
kulvetimelyx: well, that's nice. Doesn't really help me.17:24
timelyxkulve: those are the answers17:25
timelyxacpi is quite public17:25
timelyxalthough dsme will trump it17:25
timelyxso you'll want to appease dsme17:25
zorandoes it show something on sysctl -a ?17:25
sys_n800kulve; ok and whats the root pw?17:25
kulvesys_n800: rootme17:25
_Monkeyrootme is the default pw?17:25
kulvezoran: nope (at least no display or screen words when I grepped it)17:26
JaffaHmm, why do I get the feeling that although the planet's up - it's not updating?17:26
alteregoJaffa, it's actually regressed :/17:26
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sys_n800kulve; rootme doesnt work17:29
zorankulve, on bsd there is the way to see all acpi variables; I think linux writes it to separate files17:29
Jaffaalterego: gah, then posting cos I thought it was quiet was a bad idea.17:29
alteregosys_n800, you need to be in R&D mode.17:29
kulvealterego: why?17:29
alteregoTo become root.17:29
kaltsialterego it's not necessary17:30
zoranor change gainroot by the hand17:30
_Monkeyzoran: that doesn't look right17:30
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kulvesys_n800: if you are logging with ssh, the rootme should work and there's no need for r&d mode17:30
alteregoI was missinformed then ;)17:30
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alteregoOh, I thought you were talking about su17:30
kaltsiif you install ssh then you can login as root.. to use 'sudo gainroot' you need to be in RD mode17:30
sys_n800kulve; i need to enter a sudo pw to start the sshd!17:30
zoranthe point in gainroot is that it could be changed17:31
kulvesys_n800: what..?17:31
kulvesys_n800: use application manager to install the openssh. It will start it automatically17:31
sys_n800kk i ll try17:31
kaltsior 1-click install from here:
sys_n800i did that17:32
kaltsithen sshd should be running17:32
kaltsithen you should be able to ssh root@localhost from the xterm17:33
kulveor from your desktop, if you have a proper network access to your n800. It's much easier to use a real keyboard :)17:35
sys_n800thought so too, heh17:35
zoranyou have to find ip address of the device firts17:36
alteregoNot if you're connecting from the device ..17:36
alteregossh root@localhost just like kaltsi said ..17:36
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zoranhe was talking about remote access17:37
sysok, a real keyboard here :)17:37
sysi connected via ssh and changed the pw; i've WifiInfo installed :)17:37
alteregoYou'll want to check out the network manager to get the IP address then.17:37
alteregoAh, cool.17:37
syseverything a bit new :)17:38
zoranand disable remote root connection then17:38
kulveyeah, the IP can be get from the connection manager's menu17:38
timelyxalterego: fwiw, from what i can tell the reason plugins are plugins instead of processes is that on the 770 there weren't enough resources to load a bunch of apps w/ the same stupid libs half a dozen times17:38
timelyxso they decided to risk cooperative plugins17:38
timelyxand expected plugin devs not to suck17:38
syshow else can i log in, if i disabled sshd root login?17:39
timelyxyou wouldn't?17:39
zoranuser firts17:39
alteregoWell, I don't really mind having to restart hildon everytime I run my loader :./17:39
timelyxgood for you?17:39
timelyxdon't ask me why anyone would trust devs not to suck17:39
* timelyx thinks that's one of the dumbest assumptions out there17:39
timelyxbut anyway, they cut a corner, and overall, it works17:40
syszoran: what users? i don't see any other user in /etc/passwd17:40
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timelyxas long as it bites the dev before he delivers17:40
timelyxinstead of the customer after the dev delivers17:40
timelyxit's all good17:40
zoransys, you are "user" user17:40
timelyxdev fixes, delivery ok, ... happy user17:40
timelyxunfortunately, i was a user, and i got a bunch of those plugins, after delivery17:41
sysso i should first do a passwd user before diconnecting and disabling root:D17:41
timelyxbut anyway, i already complained and made them improve things :)17:41
zoransys, see manual for openssh first; it is a good manner to login first as user, then su/sudo to root17:41
syszoran: yes yes, but that's not what i meant... i am going to do that anyway... you're right17:42
pupnikso chicago is still the only place to buy a N810 eh17:42
zorancannot recall the exact name of conf file for ssh, but there is an option to disable root login from ssh17:43
Andy80hi all17:43
zoransys, for sshd17:43
syszoran: /etc/ssh/sshd --> PermitRootLogin No17:43
zoranyou login as user, then su to root17:44
zoranor sudo gainroot17:44
sysbut login via ssh as user and the su means: applet require root privilegdes17:44
zoransys, change gainroot first, of course, not to be cut off of the device17:44
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zoranthere is an MODE option, which should read "MODE=enabled #"17:45
syszoran: just saw that. but i have to leave for a couple of minutes.17:45
zoranfind doc about it _first_17:45
sysill be back later and do this :)17:45
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Andy80why Planet Maemo is not updated in these days?17:50
timelyxdid anyone file a bug?17:50
timelyxbut i'm sure the fact that it's a weekend doesn't help matters17:50
kulvebug #2308 is about being broken too often17:51
_MonkeyBug 2308 might be found at
kulvevote there, if you agree17:51
timelyxgarage has plenty of space on it atm17:51
timelyxand claims to have been up for 12 days17:51
timelyxheh, someone tried to visit /projcts17:53
timelyxone of the other servers has ~4g free17:55
timelyxwhich could be a problem, in a few years, i suppose17:55
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timelyxit's been up for >150 days (which isn't bad, although my box at work has been up for >200)17:56
timelyxi need to consider whether i want to switch to xen17:56
timelyxof course, w/ xen, uptime is kinda an odd thing to calculate17:56
timelyxmy zones currently have uptimes of about 1 day, vs. 200days for the host17:57
Andy80timelyx: who manage the server?17:57
timelyx(one person)17:57
timelyxif i thought something was critical, i'd give him a call17:57
timelyxi've done so in the past17:58
timelyxyou guys haven't justified me ruining his weekend17:58
Andy80no, don't worry, don't disturb him :)17:58
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timelyxnote that technically bugging him is done via the web ui18:01
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akv_anyone got gtalk working with itos2008?18:02
zuhtimelyx: So one can complain that the website doesn't work through the website? I think I can see why fixing it takes some time... ;)18:02
timelyxzuh: *shrug* wfm18:05
Andy80zuh: :D18:05
timelyxat, when bugzilla is down, nagios sends out pages18:06
timelyxfor anything else, bugzilla receives reports, and nagios will send out pages if the reports aren't handled in a timely manner18:06
timelyx(actually, nagios will probably page people for hundreds of things, those are only 2)18:06
Andy80anyway.,... I'm worried about applications for Os2008...18:07
Andy80actually we have only 20 apps for os2008, while Os2007 has near 20018:07
Andy80the SDK was released lot of days ago18:07
timelyxthe n810 has been around for a few weeks tops18:07
Andy80and only few people have ported their apps to os2008 :(18:07
timelyxthe n800 has been around for what, 10 months?18:07
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akv_Andy80: those apps will be ported..i'm not worried :)18:08
kulveyou can't release an app, if it compiles in SDK. You have to test it18:08
kulveand you can't test it, if you don't have the device18:08
Andy80kulve: ehm... same problem here :)18:08
pupniklets hope the N9x0 will have 2x or 4x the space on root filesystem18:08
Andy80I just ported SPIM to Chinook, but I cannot test it yet18:08
kulveyeah, that's the reason there is no apps for n810 yet :)18:08
akv_itos2008 looks very promising18:09
zuhAndy80: It was the same with 2005&2006 and 2006&2007 too...18:09
timelyxpupnik: you do realize that the naming convention at nokia isn't remotely close to sane, right?18:09
kulvepupnik: why?18:09
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pupnikbecause many games take up 5-20 megs and one about 200 megs for data18:09
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Andy80pupnik: you could put data on the SD card18:09
timelyxkulve: last i checked, apt wasn't friendly to installing apps outside of the standard unix paths18:10
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zorandepends where installer puts it18:10
timelyxAndy80: fwiw, that's actually a losing proposition18:10
timelyxi just played w/ an n81-8g18:10
timelyxand believe me, you're *very* unhappy when you plug it in via usb18:10
timelyxeither your apps go haywire18:10
timelyxor your system refuses to export usb until you guess which apps are using the device18:10
timelyxgood luck18:10
* konttori loves n81 (with picodrive)18:10
Andy80timelyx: that's true...18:11
pupniki could make an install script in the deb package to symlink /usr/local/share to a dir on mmc18:11
timelyxkonttori: my n81 8gb is full18:11
timelyxpodcaster refuses to download more stuff18:11
timelyxit's complaining i'm out of space18:11
Andy80N81? lucky you :) I still have my N73 ;)18:11
konttoriyeah, well, 8 gigs is still quite good starting point18:11
timelyxAndy80: all actions are logged18:11
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timelyxkonttori: i filled it up in what, 3 days?18:11
timelyxi don't think there's any reasonable way to unfill or manage it18:12
konttoriotoh n810 and the 2 gb would also be pretty good if we had it in ext fs.18:12
Andy80timelyx: why? I mean,.. why they're logged?18:12
konttoriI filled it immediately (although upload took about 3 hours via usb18:12
timelyxAndy80: anyone here mentioning this toy is participating in a study18:12
konttorianyway, I have now 1 gb of free space18:12
timelyxwe promise to have our actions logged18:12
timelyxkonttori: i have <1/2gb free18:12
timelyxand whatever the number is, it's small enough that podcaster won't download18:12
konttoriplenty of room for picodrive ;)18:12
pupnikagree konttori - at least the developer can assume the 2GB will not be removed on N810 - i believe it is mmc2?18:12
Andy80timelyx: ahhh ok ok... something like "debug" version :)18:12
suihkulokkiI wonder if the keylogger works when you run out of space =)18:13
timelyxAndy80: not really18:13
timelyxpupnik: no18:13
_Monkeyrumour has it mmc1 is accessible18:13
timelyxusb works the same way on the n810 as it does on the n8118:13
konttoriand you cal always require the internal (mmc2) to be present. (or fall back to mmc1 if it isn't)18:13
timelyxyou attach it, and the mmcs go away18:13
timelyxif you have open files when this happens18:13
timelyxbad things will probably happen18:13
konttoriinternal is mmc2, external mmc118:13
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konttoriwell, it won't mount mmc to usb if it's in use18:14
timelyxbrowser team is currently trying to determine just how bad18:14
Andy80anyway, 2 gb on mmc2 is a lot of space :)18:14
timelyxkonttori: define in use?18:14
konttoriso, bad things won't happen, it just won't mount to your desktop18:14
konttorias in it has read / write locks to any files on the mmc18:14
konttorias in any application has such locks18:14
timelyxif it's between locks...18:14
suihkulokkidue to the circumstances mentioned by timelyx (+ some others, mainly that you have to use FAT), I have become to the conclusion that mass storage mode for USB must die18:15
Andy80uhm.... no... wait..... if mmc2 is not accessible... how can I transfer files to it from my desktop?18:15
timelyxor has already asserted the file system exists but hasn't locked yet18:15
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pupnikanyway, big game data can't sensibly be put into a .deb anyway, as it needs to be downloaded first to the apt cache18:15
timelyxsuihkulokki: the right solution is probably a proxy18:15
zorananyway, is it fat formatted?18:15
timelyxwhich doesn't provide raw access if the system is in some mode18:15
trevarthananyone know the default device lock code on the n810 firmware?18:15
timelyxbut instead offers emulated access18:15
timelyxthe perf would be much worse18:16
timelyxbut at least you could share18:16
konttori think18:16
timelyxbut it's in the manual18:16
timelyxwhy didn't you read it?18:16
timelyxbad boy18:16
trevarthanno. 12345 doesn't work18:16
sys 12345 is the default lock code18:16
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konttoritimelyx: yeah, emulated fat would be an ideal solution18:16
trevarthaneven on the leaked n810 firmware?18:16
konttorifor mounting through usb18:17
timelyxtrevarthan: oh, you don't have the manual because you stole the firmware?18:17
konttoritry 1234 and 000018:17
timelyxi think i left my n810 manual at work :)18:17
zoranor mrroring to nas and rotating in appropriate way18:17
Andy80n810 manual is available on Nokia website already...18:18
konttoriif you had restored setting from n800, perhaps you had set your own lock code on n80018:18
suihkulokkikonttori: even emulated fat is risky.. the mounting OS does not expect FAT sectors to get modified18:18
trevarthanI didn't restore anything18:18
timelyxyeah, flashing won't change the lock (minor bugs noted)18:18
trevarthanyup. I had one set. cool. thanks.18:19
konttorisuihkulokki: then there's always samba ;)18:19
timelyxsuihkulokki: you could probably cheat18:19
timelyxnot sure how well it'd work18:19
zoranwhy in inner card formatted in fat?18:19
timelyxso it'll mount anywhere18:19
timelyx(win, mac, lin, sol, ...)18:19
suihkulokkikonttori: amusingly that is what motorola linux phones do =)18:19
timelyxas mentioned above, it's usb mass storage18:19
konttoriOr webdav / sftp and requirement to use pcsuite to access it ;)18:19
* timelyx curses18:20
timelyxhow dare you mention pcsuite?18:20
trevarthanlock code dialog is much easier to use in chinook. Looks like I'll actually get to lock my device now.18:20
konttoriwell, some nokia provided application18:20
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* timelyx curses18:20
Andy80timelyx: is the inner card available (mounted) on your desktop when you plug in the usb cable?18:20
konttoripcsuite just came to my mind as an example18:20
suihkulokkisomething like MTP and fuse thing to mount it on linux would work great18:20
timelyxAndy80: i'm fairly certain it did the last time i tried18:20
konttorithat could of course be used to transfer safely files18:20
Andy80timelyx: thanks :)18:20
timelyxkonttori: "be used" and "safely"?18:21
suihkulokkiwindows supports mtp too so it's almost as easy as mass storage18:21
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timelyxwhat's mtp?18:21
suihkulokkimedia transfer protocol18:21
trevarthankonttori: timelyx: BTW, I got subversion installed. All I had to do was add the repo in /etc/apt/sources.lst or whatever and then I could install it from the appmngr18:21
timelyxAndy80: please don't take my word for that one18:21
timelyxsuihkulokki: file a request?18:21
trevarthankontori: BTW, I really like the new horizontal scrolling mechanism in UKMP. Very nice.18:21
timelyxthat seems more than reasonable18:22
trevarthanI like the new theme a lot too.18:22
timelyx(not necessarily exclusive, but certainly available)18:22
timelyxtrevarthan: plankton's better18:22
* timelyx is still hungry18:22
Andy80timelyx: it's just to understant if the inner card is available ONLY for internal use (by system apps ecc...) or if, for example, I can transfer mp3, avi ecc... to it. that's all :)18:22
trevarthantimelyx: I'm talking about UKMP, not the OS.18:22
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konttoritrevarthan: thanks18:22
konttoritrevarthan: did you notice that it's now doing the reflection on the fly.18:23
zoranwhat stops date to traffic to inner card?18:23
konttoriInstead of on load time.18:23
trevarthanno. I haven't looked at the code. We're doing that in Kagu too though. We don't cache reflections anymore.18:23
konttoriWhen I realized that, I started thingking that by a different kind of layout that could be used for some really nice effects.18:24
konttoriso you calculate reflections for every frame as well?18:24
trevarthanyeah. typically we only have one image on screen at a time, so it's no big deal.18:24
konttorihey, are you using the media database now from the media framework?18:25
konttorithe sqlite db18:25
trevarthanmmm... no. we're still using our own sqlite db.18:25
trevarthanwhat's the media framework?18:25
konttoriahh,.. there is a pre-made db in ~/.data or something.18:26
trevarthanThe chances that it has everything we need are pretty slim I bet.18:26
konttoriwell, the devices own media player has the harvester process that harvests id3 information for all meadia files automatically.18:26
trevarthanWe're always adding indexes and stuff.18:26
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trevarthanI'll check it out though.18:27
konttorifunnily enough, that db doesn't have any indexes (might explain a little why the medai playr is a bit slow)18:27
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trevarthanarg. where the hell did I get that sqlite3 command from now? rrrrr...18:27
trevarthanI hate having to hunt down all my programs after a firmware change.18:28
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erich141anyone remember the name of an applet which sit in the taskbar, shows CPU activity and let you kill CPU hoggers?18:30
pupnikosso-statusbar-cpu?  cpu-load-applet?18:30
trevarthansomeone needs to port those to chinook18:31
alteregoSomeone .18:31
konttoriwhat sqlite3 command do you mean?18:31
kaltsiwe need to hire that Someone18:31
kulvemaybe Someone should first sell device able to run Chinook. Or provide Chinook for the old devices..18:32
konttoriload applet can be found from garage.18:32
alteregoI'd do it if you paid me :)18:32
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konttoriit works on chinook18:32
konttoriand it's done by Jakub Pavelek and he's already hired by Nokia18:32
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suihkulokkiis maemo-mapper available for chinook?18:33
konttoriyeah, it is18:33
trevarthankonttori: there's an sqlite3 binary floating around somewhere for sqlite3 cli access on the device18:33
konttoriahh... I don't know. I'm just porting pysqlitegui for the device.18:34
konttorishould be an even nicer way to test stuff.18:34
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konttoriit already works, just needs hildonization and stuff.18:34
trevarthanah. missing wget. crap18:35
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alteregoRuby applets d00d!18:40
alteregoIt's taken a week but they work ^_^18:40
alteregoWell, probably about 30 hours.18:41
alteregoActually, more like 10.18:41
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* alterego is quite lazy.18:41
* alterego makes implementation more "solid" ..18:42
pupnikdamn pingus theme song... get out of my brain!18:42
suihkulokkipupnik: watch this to get rid of it:
konttoriahh... pysqlitegui is quite slow when using it on the device.18:47
konttoriprobably the glade + gtk combination is slowing it down18:47
trevarthankonttori: is that the same as this?
konttoriis that a good one?18:49
konttoriI haven't tested that.18:49
konttoriHave to test it before wasting time on something that has been done already18:50
konttorithanks for the tip18:50
trevarthannever used it. I like the CLI, personally.18:50
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penguinbaitI am wanting to take a poll in here, I think Maemo Mapper is the best GPS software for linux period!, I am trying to find another program  for Linux but can not find anything even close to maemo mapper, I used to use gpsdrive,but its crap compared to MM.  I want to con Gnuite into creating another version for laptops.  Any other progs I am not thinking of19:01
alteregomaemo mapper is pretty cool.19:02
penguinbaitIt really is19:03
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elbit really depends on what you want19:05
elbxastir has some features to recommend it, though it's quite arcane and somewhat primitive19:05
elbbut it *does* understand shapefiles19:05
konttoriby the way, the pymapper (the python copy ) is pretty good as well. Not nearly as good as maemo mapper, but pretty goon nevertheless19:06
konttorimight be a good startingpoint for a multiplatform project19:06
konttorignuite has done really good job with maemo mapper in any case19:07
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penguinbaitI want a good program to run under KDE, and maemo mapper works OK, but its not designed for that type of window manager19:10
penguinbaitAbsolutely, that why I think Gnuite should port a laptop aimed version, it would be a huge success19:11
kaltsihow about google earth19:12
_Monkeygoogle earth is a closed-source, winelib-based program, right? So I'd guess no.19:12
elbshut up, _Monkey19:12
_Monkeyelb: what?19:12
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elbkaltsi: Google Earth really solves a different problem19:12
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elband it doesn't run offline19:13
kaltsigood point19:13
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alteregoAloha czr19:19
czrhey alterego. how is it goin?19:19
* czr keeps the window open just in case19:19
alteregoNot bad. I've made quite a bit of progress on the plugin front ;)19:19
czrgreat, did you find out what the problem was?19:19
alteregoIt loads and executes ruby scripts fine now19:19
czror there were several? :-)19:19
alteregoI rewrote things and it started to work.19:19
czrah, the old "rewrite everything until it works"-trick? :-)19:20
alteregoYes, this version is a lot nicer. Gives me cool error messages.19:20
* czr pats alterego on the back19:20
czrI have a massive headache19:20
alteregoUnforunately I'm having another problem now. Suprise :)19:21
czrheh. time for another rewrite? :-)19:21
alteregoNot the whole thing anyway ^_^19:21
alteregoI'm getting this wonderful error: 'can't convert false to string'19:22
czrI think I'm going to try to follow my step by step on ARM side19:22
alteregoIt's coming from ruby19:22
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czrheh. sounds promising :-)19:22
czrmaybe a NULL pointer?19:22
elbthat sounds like a ruby problem19:22
elbfalse.to_s should return "false"19:22
alteregoIt is a ruby problem :P19:22
alteregoMy problem is, where is this problem occuring.19:22
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czrah, don't you just wish you'd have arbitrary backtracing capability19:23
czri.e., see an error message, and then just backtrack from there until you see what the problem is. post-mortem19:23
mariorzhi, where are the doc for installing software on 770?19:23
c0ffeeczr, the undodb (replacing gdb) does exactly that19:23
czrc0ffee, hmm. it requires a core to work with?19:24
c0ffeewell, it's like gdb19:24
c0ffeeactually it has the same ui, so you can use it with ddd and others19:24
czrok. so either a core or pre-emptive breakpoints and thingies19:24
czrI'm not a great fan of gdb though, but still19:25
c0ffeewithout the leading un actually :)19:25
czrit does fit though :-)19:25
c0ffeeit's closed source stuff thou19:25
czrso it seems19:25
c0ffeehowever, for opensource and/or research stuff, you get a free license19:25
czr"Horrible bugs such as race conditions and memory corruption that previously took weeks to find can now be found in minutes."19:26
elbgdb is very powerful19:26
czrI wonder how they manage to do that..19:26
czrmost race conditions I run into are bad design mistakes/assumptions.19:26
c0ffeei have a program for example that manipulates a few gigabytes of memory19:26
elbthere are many tools for embedded systems which allow rollback and rewind19:26
c0ffeeand now after days of processing it suddendly dies19:26
alteregoGutted :P19:26
c0ffeefinding a minimal test case that i can actually forward debug takes weeks19:26
czrcounds fun c0ffee. undb helped that?19:27
czrsounds even19:27
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c0ffeeif i can just step back a few steps and see what actually did cause the bug, it's pretty easy19:27
czrthe bug caused termination?19:27
c0ffeea segfault19:27
_Monkeya segfault is, like, from trying to get listings19:27
konttoriby the way, google earth runs offline. (someone was commenting that earlier)19:27
c0ffeeand the backtrace didn't point to the cause of the bug19:27
c0ffeeit's like function a corrupts the data19:27
c0ffeebut terminates19:28
c0ffeeand function b dies19:28
czractually I remember seeing something similar for some DOS debugger, ages ago19:28
c0ffeeanyway, food &19:28
czrmaybe it's something stack-related19:28
czrstack-corrupting bugs are always fun19:28
czranyhow, looks interesting. thanks for the link c0ffee19:29
kaltsihow about chronicle..
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czrhmm. something that I'd implement. sounds heavy duty though, thanks for that link too :-)19:31
czrvalgrind is a memory/cpu hog really when dealing with complex stuff19:31
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czralso callgrind is somewhat wanting19:31
czr(the cache model is ok, but the CPU/instruction model is way off, and it doesn't have TLB modelling at all)19:32
czrplus it makes the program run at 1% of real speed, but I could live with that :-)19:32
kaltsithis undodb also requires you to run the program in it19:33
czrvalgrind does as well.19:34
kaltsihence the 'also' :)19:34
czrah. I thought it was 'also' as in suprising :-)19:34
* czr blames his headache19:34
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alteregoOh ..19:35
alteregoI think I know what the problem is.19:35
alteregoThat's interesting.19:35
alteregoI think the problem is .. There _is_ no error.19:37
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czrah. reminds me of the clasical "Error 0: No error" dialog in old win32 netscape.19:37
czrit was really funny19:37
czrhmm. bleh. I have to apply the application manager fix on the armel side as well19:38
K`zanMorning all!19:39
konttoriahh... seems like the pysqlitegui and the sqlite3sg are both done using plain gtk and are unusably slow on the device.19:40
elbczr: yeah, something I use likes to say "Fatal Error: Success"19:40
czrooh. AM fails in a horrible death like way on the ARMEL19:40
elbbut I forget what19:40
konttoritranslates to: either the command line tool or I have to write a new tool for it.19:41
elbit's checking errno somewhere inappropriate19:41
czrelb, sounds about right. probably the same team wrote that as did the netscape ;-)19:41
kaltsiczr do you -need- to run them in armel.. probably won't work19:41
czrkaltsi, it doesn't19:41
elbczr: the problem is, errno and strerror only work for certain functions -- and many programmers check them for other functions ;-)19:41
shackanvalgrind does NOT run on arm19:41
alteregoscratchbox just segfaulted and dumped me out :/19:41
czrqemu: Unsupported syscall: 26419:41
kaltsiczr yep that's to be expected.. there be dragons19:42
czrkaltsi, just wanted to test whether my package building thingy works on ARMEL.19:42
alteregoNo, I can get around all those now ;)19:42
czrkaltsi, yup. it's not critical, I'll test on the devices next19:42
czrelb, they do? silly of them :-)19:42
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czralthough the whole errno business is a bit silly IMHO. not that I'm saying that it should be changed. too late now, but still.19:43
czrI really like the way that kernel returns the errors in pointers19:43
elbwell, that's a different situation19:43
czralthough that obviously works for functions that'd return a pointer, but still.19:43
* czr nods19:43
czrbleh. I always forget there's no VKB on the n81019:44
* czr keeps clicking on the address bar in vain19:44
alteregoI thought there was a VKB19:44
alteregoThat's ghey >:(19:44
konttoriyou can get vkb if you want19:44
czrkonttori, how?19:44
konttorisetting is in control panel19:44
konttoriinput methods19:45
czrah. didn't know that19:45
konttoriprobably disabled by default for n810 configuration19:45
czrat least was on this device19:45
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czrhmm. is anyone running os2007 on a n800 here?19:47
alteregoCool .. Now it's segfaulting O_O19:49
sp3000czr: what kind of odd luddites would those be19:49
* sp3000 is :)19:49
czrsp3000, care to test whether my package will install on it?19:49
sp3000the second-to-latest one even, for extra credit19:49
czrbuilt using 4.0 really19:50
czrso I'm just curious what will happen with it on 200719:50
* sp3000 is rocking it hardcore oldskool19:50
czr770 with pre 1.0 images? :-)19:50
czrwith the ugly orange button version too?19:50
czrthat'd be really oldskool :-)19:50
czrsp3000, how about it?19:52
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sp3000appmgr complains about dependencies19:54
czrok. good to know19:54
czrprobably realted to the great hildonlib renaming break that happened19:54
czrit's looking for libhildon-1 and libhildon-fm-219:55
czrhmm. the other libs should be ok methinks19:55
czrit's only those two that were renamed between 3.2 -> 4.0 afair19:55
czrpretty ironic that only the names have been changed, otherwise the program would run quite nicely19:56
czrsp3000, thanks for testing.19:56
czrwas too lazy to reflash 2007 back onto the n80019:56
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czroh. ok then :-) not just the two libs :-)19:59
czrthanks a lot19:59
czrah yes. the libc break as well.19:59
czrI guess one would have to fix the libdeps manually in order to support older versions20:00
czrbut that's too painful20:00
mariorzwhats the dif between bora and mistral on the repositorys20:00
mariorzare they really for dif distros?20:01
mariorzi seem to be able to install from both20:01
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* czr goes shopping for cigarettes and coffee20:07
czrlong night ahead :-)20:07
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pupnik"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro..." - Hunter S. Thompson20:12
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alteregoWell, now it's all working okay. I need to create a nice interface for setting up plugins from the ruby side.20:13
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mariorzhow do i type alt or ctrl from x terminal on the 770?20:27
pupniki think that's a menu option - if not you need to get the newest xterm20:31
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* czr is now loaded and dangerful20:34
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czrhmm. stop doesn't work on ARMEL side20:35
czrkillall ftw20:36
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alteregokillall -s 15 !20:37
czreh, isn't TERM default anyway?20:37
alteregoDon't know20:38
czrit is20:38
czrso all your -s 15 is pretty.. useless :-)20:38
alteregoI just have a vague memory of it not killing things properly with no signal specified.20:38
czrneh. -s 9 if you run against that20:38
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* alterego orders some Chinese20:39
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czrwei shenma? rugou ni yao zhongren, ni bu hui coding in maemo.20:41
alteregoHmm .. I've ran into another problem now.20:41
alteregoI need to link against a ruby extension (.so) that's in the ruby sitearchdir ..20:42
alteregoThis is something I don't know how to do at all :/20:43
czrtells ld which directory to also use when linking20:46
czralthough at runtime it will become somewhat hairy. can't you use dlopen or similar?20:46
alteregoYeah, do you think that'll work when these extensions are dlopen'd by ruby?20:46
alteregoWell .. My extensions link fine ..20:46
alteregoI wonder how.20:46
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alteregoIt's interesting that ldd doesn't show them as being linked ..20:47
* czr shrugs20:48
czrI know 0 about ruby20:48
* alterego goes insane.20:49
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* czr points to the window20:49
* alterego jumps out of the window20:49
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czrany other ruby lovas? :-)20:50
* czr itches to increment the variable some more20:50
K`zanSilly question probably, but why is it that 2007 apps won't work in 2008?20:50
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czrK`zan, different libc version20:50
alteregodifferent everything version :)20:50
czrK`zan, also some libs underwent name changes20:50
K`zanAh, OK, that makes sense :-(20:50
czrdiff gtk version too methinks20:51
alteregoYeah, 2.10 as opposed to 2.620:51
K`zan2008 is up one app from yesterday :).20:51
K`zanBut I think judging that from the maemo repositories is misleading, MM is out for 2008 now.20:51
K`zanWill be glad when xchat gets here :-).20:52
alteregoYou could always compile it yourself.20:52
alteregoI'm sure you can get the project source from them.20:52
K`zanThen again MM (maemo mapper) may not be, I notice it refuses to load maps when you are zoomed in reasonably tight.20:52
zuhK`zan: The amount of ported apps will surely grow faster when the devices hit the streets...20:53
K`zanalterego: I started putting together the dev stuff, just got deb4 installed in a vm, got to do the scratchbox and SDK which were a bit confusing - just haven't gotten back to it.20:53
K`zanzuh: Most likely :-).20:53
alteregoscratchbox is easy.20:53
alteregoJust apt-get the packages you require.20:54
K`zanEasy for you to say :).20:54
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alteregoSetting up the SDK's is pretty easy.20:54
alteregoYou've just reminded me. I was going to write a couple of patches for the maemo-sdk installers that allows you to specify the SDK names.20:54
K`zanIt has been YEARS since I did any serious PC level software development - been putzing around in microcontrollers for a while.20:54
alteregoWoo, Chinese dinner is here!20:55
alteregoThat was quick ..20:55
K`zanSo many years, I'd be embarrased to say how many :-).20:55
czrK`zan, 30?20:55
K`zanCloser to 20 actually <blush>20:56
K`zanLike riding a bicycle I hope :).20:56
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K`zanGonna run the battery down in the n800 today...20:59
alteregoCan't be that many years then ;)20:59
K`zanWould be nice if one could select power level per connection.  Here at home 10mw would do since the AP is less than 5' away...21:00
K`zanFeels like it :)21:00
alteregoThat's just being an adult.21:00
alteregoDoesn't make you old ;)21:00
K`zanNo, doesn't.  Just makes you feel old LOL!21:01
K`zanCan't do the multi-day all night and dayers anymore.21:01
alteregoI'm gonna have to swim for a week to burn off all this food :/21:01
K`zanWith oriental, you'll be hungry in an hour.21:02
K`zanWe have a really GREAT oriental place here, today seems like a good day to patronize them.21:02
alteregoI'm always hungry. That's not the point :P21:02
K`zanLOL, understand that.21:02
alteregoWhere do you live?21:03
K`zanGood news here as of yesterday I guess is that bacon is no longer bad for you, now it is good for you.21:03
K`zanSeattle, home of the evil empire.21:03
czrK`zan, which one? :-)21:03
elbbring on the bacon21:03
alteregoAnd Kurt ;)21:03
czrthere's so many evil empires to choose from nowadays21:03
K`zanHeh, here there are so many evil empires, starting with the local "government"...21:04
alteregoThat's good I started the day of with a bacon sandwich21:04
K`zanWonder when it will be bad for you again?21:04
elbman I want a BLT21:04
elbK`zan: how did it become good?21:04
elblast news I read was that preserved meats are carcinogenic21:04
elbwhich includes bacon21:04
K`zanWould be nice, but only nitro ripened and picked 6 months ago orangish stuff in the stores.21:05
K`zanelb: Secret:  you ain't gonna get out of this alive :-).21:05
elbheh I start my day most mornings with eggs over easy, sausage, and griddle-fried toast21:05
elbso that's salmonella, cholesterol, fat, oil, and blah blah blah21:06
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elbbut man is it good21:06
K`zanelb, Damnifiknow, too much news too much bad research (commerical / political "science").  Coffee was the last one bad / good /bad before this one that I recall.21:06
elbcoffee is all good ;-)21:06
alteregoCoffee is good.21:06
elbanti-oxidants out the wazoo21:06
K`zanAh, yes, latest is good :).21:06
alteregoStops liver disease21:06
K`zanGlad as I drink about 3 pots a day :).21:06
K`zanHome roasted and ground :).21:06
elbcaffeine has been suspect over the years, but latest is that it's OK, too21:07
K`zanNot commercial swill.21:07
elb(in moderation, of course)21:07
elbyeah, I roast my own21:07
K`zanMakes people productive, can't be having that.21:07
elbthe only way to go :-)21:07
alteregoI don't notice much of an effect with coffee.21:07
K`zanAgree *completely*, even the gormet stuff is rancid by the time you get to it.21:07
elbwell, it lowers blood pressure and heart rate21:07
alteregoUnless I've had _too_ much.21:07
elbit used to be believed that it was hard on the cardiovascular system21:07
K`zanalterego: You just need good coffee :).21:07
alteregoI have good coffee :P21:08
elbbut it turns out that, for regular consumers and in moderation, it's not21:08
alteregoI don't ever make it at home.21:08
alteregoWell, I do at weekends in the morning.21:08
elbit does trigger arrhythmia in some people who are sensitive21:08
K`zanI can no longer handle the swill you get out, even starbucks is crap.21:08
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elbstarbucks is worse than most of the other swill21:08
alteregoNormally I go to this nice Italian cafe or polish21:08
elbI prefer generic gas station coffee over starbucks21:08
elbFlying J dominates all over Starbucks ;-)21:09
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K`zanRegular restraunt swill is disgusting, at least you can generally choke starbucks stuff down :)21:09
alteregoStarbucks is too fruity for my tastes21:09
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elbman, I disagree -- Starbucks "house blend" is as bad as the worst restaurant brew21:09
K`zanThe store, employees or the coffee itself ;-)?21:09
alteregoYou missed the vital ingredients.21:10
elbsome of their other beans, and their espressos, are a notch up the scale from restaurant junk21:10
alterego(The customers :P21:10
K`zanI quit doing it out, no idea if there even is anything acceptable out there anymore).21:10
K`zanLOL, too true.21:10
K`zanPretentious lot generally.21:10
mariorzlates are gay21:10
czrso are typos21:10
elblattes have no sexual orientation, in fact21:10
* czr hides & runs21:10
K`zanLOL, errand bbiab.21:10
elband they're a perfectly respectable drink, they just aren't *coffee*21:10
czrelb, you have empirical evidence?21:10
pupnikdunn brothers is best coffee - if you're ever in Minneapolis, it is a must-visit21:11
elbczr: yeah, there aren't even any living cells to *have* orientation21:11
alteregoLatte is just milk :P21:11
elbalterego: Café Latte, if you will ;-)21:11
czrelb, I'm sure the milk part introduces at least some bacterias :-)21:11
alteregoI quite like Cafe Latte's21:11
elbpupnik: home roast almost certainly dominates it ;-)21:11
alteregoIt's like a coffee milkshake.21:11
elbalthough I have to say, the Ethiopian Biloya I had today was a bit bitter21:12
czralthough bacterias don't have sexual orientation. hmm, you might be onto something elb21:12
pupnikelb: they roast twice a day with expensive roasters in each shop21:12
elbpupnik: I hope they don't serve what they roasted that day21:12
pupnikafaik they do, don't remember.  smells real good though.21:12
elbthey shouldn't, if they do21:12
czrI wonder what's the difference in hitting the ENTER from pressing it.21:13
alteregoI just think anyone that goes into Starbucks must be a bit stupid.21:13
czrcan software really tell?21:13
elbnewly roasted coffee is saturated with CO2, and makes a bitter brew because of it21:13
elbit should be allowed to outgas for 8-12 hours before grinding and brewing21:13
mariorzduds plz noob here how do i do alt on xterm on the 770, im on irssi cant switch channels :p21:13
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alteregodud configur de toolbar21:14
mariorzand ctrl etc21:14
mariorzwill do thanks21:14
mariorzany linkage?21:14
* alterego chuckles.21:15
alteregomariorz, hang on I'll get it for you21:15
czrdamn the headache doesn't let up21:16
* czr goes looking for a sledge hammer21:16
mariorzso dev for this s wth the gtk libs?21:16
mariorzthanks man21:16
alteregoIf you mean that Gtk is the toolkit in Maemo .. Yes21:17
mariorzerr that yeah21:17
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* alterego eats a spring roll.21:18
timelyxmy audrey booted!21:19
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_Monkeygoogle is, like, my friend and you should make it your friend too21:20
alteregoI knew this French girl called Audrey ..21:20
* ol_schoola can't stand it anymore and rings up kung bao pork and chilis21:20
alteregoI don't think I've been more attracted to a girl in my life :D21:20
alteregool_schoola, I'm sorry. I've finished now. Just a couple of battered pork balls and some prawn crackers :)21:21
timelyxgoogle loads too!21:21
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ol_schoolaalterego: no, i ordered up, for real21:22
alteregoThat was nice.21:22
ol_schooladamn you vile woman!21:22
timelyxEtsim(~AEur)si sivu on virheelinen.21:22
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timelyxwhat's that mean?21:23
alteregoIf I ever have a "last meal" it'll probably be a mixture of chilli, chinese, indian and a bacon sandwich.21:23
alteregoOh, some steak and chips too.21:23
alteregoAnd for desert .. Lemon marangue pie.21:23
visytimelyx: "the page you are looking for has errors"21:23
ol_schoolaand a ding-dong21:23
alteregoWith strawberries and cream.21:23
visyin finnish and with some very strage encoding21:23
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* alterego starts to feel hungry again.21:24
* alterego wants strawberries ..21:24
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pupnikanybody know a python app for maemo that is launchable from menu?  i have a python/pygtk program i'd ike to start from menu21:27
Andy80pupnik: maybe this can help you:
pupnikthank ye kindly21:28
Andy80you're wellcome21:29
pupniki wonder how many tablet users already have python/pygtk installed21:29
alteregoYou just need a desktop file.21:29
alteregoPretty simple.21:29
* alterego hopes more have Ruby .. :P21:29
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bedboihi all21:32
czrhmm. is there a simple way to remove all files except the ones whose globs will match?21:33
czr(in shell)21:33
timelyxmv them somewhere else first21:34
alteregofind can negate21:34
czrneh. looking for something that can be done with simple step21:34
timelyxuniq can be abused21:34
czrwithout external tools :-)21:34
timelyxthere's also $filter21:34
alteregofind is external?21:34
czralterego, external to shell, yes21:34
timelyxoutside busybox21:35
alteregofind is in busybox21:35
alteregoIt's on the devices.21:35
timelyxbut that'd require reading the man for filter :)21:35
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czrand starting the shell with -X originally21:36
alteregoI did a google search on my name last week. I was #2 (my maemo profile)21:37
alteregoDid the same search now. Nothing :)21:37
czrnm, I'll do without the negation21:37
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alteregoI'm gonna resort to dlopen ..21:38
alteregoI can't be bothered to waste more time on this :(21:38
timelyxgnome vfs is sending out buggy http requests?21:38
timelyxanyone here vaguely familiar w/ gnome-vfs?21:38
sp3000not really :)21:39
alteregoI'd rather not. gnome-vfmess21:39
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Andy80alterego: is it possible that karma is not updated in these days?21:58
alteregoMine hasn't moved all weekend.21:59
Andy80ah ok21:59
timelyxAndy80: afa-we-k maemo isn't updating planet21:59
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alteregoAnd Maemo site has been quite broken this weekend.21:59
timelyxpresumably other things are also stuck21:59
alteregoYeah, I think karma is also generated once a day.21:59
alteregoSo it wont update until very late tonight.21:59
Andy80they're all busy at Nokia.... loading the DHL Cargo with our N810's :D22:00
* Andy80 joking :P22:00
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pupnikWhat would be the best dosbox launcher?  1) integrated into xmaeme launcher  2) a standalone gtk-based launcher  or 3) a python based launcher?22:01
pupnikIt's going to be easy to start up games and add them to a list.22:02
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Andy80I was thinking about a usefull plugin for minimo browser....22:08
Andy80is it compatible with firefox plugins?22:09
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alteregoNot exactly.22:09
alteregoIn fact, not really.22:09
Andy80a usefull plugin to port into it would be the AdBlockPlus22:09
alteregoCan't say I've had a problem with adverts on my tablet.22:10
Andy80they slow down the connection speed22:10
Andy80and make the rendering of the page slower22:10
alteregoOh, you mean like google adds and stuff?22:11
alteregoFilters them out of the page?22:11
Andy80I mean all kind of ads22:11
alteregoYeah. That would be very cool.22:11
alteregoDo it :P22:11
Andy80AdBlockPlus for Firefox does this thing22:11
Andy80try it :)22:11
Andy80you'll notice the difference even on a normal PC22:11
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pupnikalso "noscript" plugin would really help22:15
pupnikscripts off by default, then you can enable them only for pages you want22:15
Andy80a popup blocker too would be usefull...22:16
timelyxpupnik: noscript should be coming22:16
timelyxnot sure when, i need to bug mao22:16
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Andy80timelyx: are you working at the maemo browser?22:18
timelyxalthough atm i'm playing w/ the audrey browser (voyager) instead22:19
alterego40,000 hacks later.22:22
alteregoWell .. No errors ^_^22:23
alteregoIt's wyerkin'!22:23
alteregoI've got my first ruby desktop plugin on the desktop.22:24
alteregoI could cry :D22:24
alteregoNow to break it.22:24
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* alterego means make it better.22:25
konttoriIs there any easy way to set the font size to bare minimum for all widgets in gtk window (python)22:27
alteregoProbably need to play around with a gtkrc theme file for your app.22:28
alteregoHmmm ..22:30
alteregoWell .. It works but with a slight issue. Plugins share the same Ruby context. Which means they share resources :/22:31
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* czr sent off the first version of the 4.0 updated mat.22:35
* czr yays a bit22:35
alteregoLooks like we're both in a good place.22:36
alteregoMy plugin's are working and displaying :)22:36
alteregoNot very interesting plugins but they work ^_^22:36
czrI'm not in a good place22:36
czrnot in a good place at all :-)22:36
czrI wonder if anyone will notice the 600 KiB drop in the size of the tarball compared to the 3.2 version22:37
* czr smirks22:37
alteregoNot all deprecated API's surely ;)22:38
czrmy lips are sealed22:38
maddlerevening all...22:41
konttorialterego: thanks.22:41
maddlerAndy80: ciao! :)22:42
alteregokonttori, no prob, good luck ;)22:42
konttorialterego: I was just hoping I could have avoided it22:42
alteregoYou can do it programmatically but I don't know the attributes sorry :/22:42
Andy80maddler: we :)22:42
* alterego wonders how to do transparency.22:43
konttorifor what? (transparency)?22:45
czranyhow, time for food and consolation beer22:45
czrlater alterego and all22:45
alteregoczr, have a good evening :)22:46
* czr goes to drown his sorrows in alcohol :-)22:46
alteregokonttori, I've managed to write home plugins in Ruby. I want to make them have transparency effects like the ones that come with OS200822:47
konttoriHow about just putting alpha channel to the pixbuf?22:47
* alterego wonders if they're cheating ..22:47
alteregoNo, I think Nokia cheat.22:47
konttoriI actually don't know the proper way to do it, but that's the way I would have designed the plugin framework.22:48
alteregoThey find out the position of the plugin and capture what should be there. Then make it look like it's transparent.22:48
konttorithose damn cheaters!22:48
xan-afkalterego, no, the desktop has a local compositor, it's true transparency22:48
konttoriactually, as you can put widgets on top of each other, I think they are not cheating as you described22:49
alteregoxan-afk, do you know how to utilize it?22:49
xan-afkyou can control it via theming or having ARGB visuas in your windows22:49
alteregoxan-afk, thanks a lot :)22:49
alteregoI'm gonna have some good ruby-maemo related blogging material for tomorrow :)22:49
xan-afkI think jobi was doing a tutorial about that, not sure if he released it22:49
alteregojobi, pfft. Useless bugger :P22:50
alteregoKudos for the 2008 theme though ..22:50
alteregoTime for some bath surfing.22:50
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K`zansad to say, but watching embedded video is the next thing to useless, 3 frames / words per minute :-(23:10
K`zanFlash stuff...23:10
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K`zan5 minutes to make about a 1 minute video wholly useless, perhaps it works better linked through a cell phone.23:19
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alteregoInteresting. maemo 4.0 SDK is not listed at stage.maemo.org23:46
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konttorihey, for the install file, should it be repo_deb_3 or repo_deb_4?23:49
konttorifor chinook23:49
alteregoProbably 423:49
alteregoAs chinook is maemo 423:49
konttoriok. I just didn't find any example install files23:50
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konttoriah damn. maemo downloads page isn't working on the click to install links ;)23:53
Igg-manIs there a place to find a good sources.list file?23:54
Igg-manIt looks like the one on the website is missing a few things, like someone pulled out the URLs23:55
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alteregoIgg-man, for the SDK?23:56
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* alterego wonders what a /good/ sources.list file is.23:56
alteregoJust put the repos you need in it.23:57
Igg-manjust the repos for the device23:57
Igg-manI think I'm missing something, lots of packages don't install23:57
alteregoThe devic edoesn't have a sources.list file.23:58
Igg-manwhat's the /etc/apt/sources.list file do?23:58
kaltsialterego what do you mean?23:59
alteregoNothing, you should set repositoriesi n hte applicaiton mangaer.23:59
Igg-manIs it safe to switch everything to chinook?23:59
kaltsialterego: the app manager modifies the sources.list.. it's just a frontend to apt-get23:59

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