IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-11-17

Andy80ok, I hope they fix it ;)00:00
maddlerperhaps they are moving to midgard on an N810! :D00:00
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Chris12349I've got a n800, and I'm currently connected to wirelessly via wep.  I don't know the wep key and I'd like to retrieve that information.  Is that stored in plain text in a file somewhere?00:02
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derfIn the gconf data, yes.00:03
derfgconf-editor or gconftool-2 are your friend.00:03
Chris12349thanks, derf :)00:03
derfYer welcome.00:04
* maddler drinks some cherry00:04
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K`zan************* It's HERE ************** :-)!00:05
maddlerDON'T tell us N810 is there...00:08
maddlersomeone could kill you! :D00:08
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derfWow, Nokia has sure changed their online store around.00:10
K`zann800 just arrived, reading the box :-).00:10
derfI can't use the website at all.00:11
JaffaBah, I want my N810s already00:11
Andy80I want mine too :)00:13
Andy80pfff :P00:13
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maddlerK`zan: hehehe... yep... same on .it shop :D00:14
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Chris12349derf: I just installed and am looking for the wep info in gconf-tool, Do you happen to know the path in gconf off the top of your head?00:14
maddleran mine as well!!! :)00:14
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derfChris12349: Not at all.00:14
Chris12349derf: :)  it's google time00:14
K`zanPutting the 4G card internal...00:14
* Jaffa has bookmarked, but it forwards to the N800 page in the UK store (nearly ordered another N800 this morning, before noticing)00:15
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derfFor me that page "cannot be displayed".00:15
JaffaHmm, seems to be dependent on whether or not you've got the cookie already set.00:16
JaffaAnyway, bed time.00:16
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K`zanThe WLAN number inside the back is the MAC Id Right?00:20
bill20r3mac address00:20
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K`zanbill20r3: THanks, got to put that in the MAC accept table on the WAP.00:22
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YHYHIAMHEREwhats the best client for msn on it200700:25
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konttoriheh. n810 update works on n800 is mentioned now even on the geekbrief00:26
maddlerYHYHIAMHERE: pidgin...00:26
_Monkeypidgin is
maddlerkonttori: is everything working fine?00:26
maddlerI heard of some (minor) problems...00:27
GeneralAntillesJabber transports, YHYHIAMHERE.00:27
konttorisince the last changes, I haven't been able to get anything accepted to the repository00:27
YHYHIAMHEREand what the best way of installing without downloading the repositary00:27
GeneralAntillesJabber transports, YHYHIAMHERE00:28
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maddlerYHYHIAMHERE: download all the debs needed... kinda hard IMHO...00:28
maddlerL0cutusM: ciao!00:28
Ar-rasadding repos dont works00:29
Ar-rasbut adding manually00:29
maddleron OS2008/N800?00:29
K`zanWaiting for battery to charge, hopefully it tells you when it is done...00:29
derfIt does.00:29
GeneralAntillesJust go ahead and use it, K`zan.00:29
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K`zanderf: Thanks!00:30
rhysso is down..00:30
maddlerI'll keep using OS007 on N800 until 2nd OS2008 release...00:30
YHYHIAMHEREcool thats is long i suppose trial and error00:30
K`zanGeneralAntilles: As soon as I have a clue as to what to do, reading the pamplet.00:30
GeneralAntillesTurn it on and hop in! :P00:30
K`zanNo manual, nor a CD with it...00:30
GeneralAntillesYou don't need a stinking manual.00:30
K`zanWAP is presumably ready :-)00:30
GeneralAntillesTurn it  on!00:30
derfManual's on the device.00:31
K`zanLOL, I am one of those nuts that actually RTFMs :-).00:31
K`zanShoveling packaging out of the way now :-)).00:31
rhys...can anyone else get to
rhysim returning a squid proxy error.00:31
Andy80rhys: website has problems00:31
K`zanLooks like there is a screen protector on it already!00:31
Ar-rasthe 3,5 cinch jack of the N800 has microfone support too?00:31
rhystheres a microphone built in.....00:32
Ar-rasi dont need the built in00:32
Ar-rasi need external00:32
GeneralAntillesJust pull off the tab and leave the protector on, K`zan.00:32
rhysso if i go get the Mic out of my closet, plug it into my nokia, i can use maemo recorder?00:32
rhyswith the external?00:32
GeneralAntillesIt's a 3-channel port00:33
GeneralAntillesSo, you should be able to.00:33
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Wilco Sir.  I also see the point of getting another battery - not sure how easy it would be to find another coaxial like is on the charger....00:33
Ar-rasbecause i think about building a IR diode to the audio jack, and then write a program like lirc and then you have remote control on N80000:33
rhysGeneralAntilles: does that mean like a combination mic/headphone would work with it?00:33
GeneralAntillesYeah, it should.00:34
rhys?!! why does noone tell me these things00:34
GeneralAntillesK`zan, you might be able to find one of the other, larger Nokia barrel chargers.00:34
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YHYHIAMHEREbest irc client00:34
GeneralAntillesjust adapt it.00:34
YHYHIAMHEREfor it80000:34
GeneralAntillesSkyhuser's port00:34
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YHYHIAMHEREweres the best place to get that00:35
_MonkeyGoogle is my friend and you should make it your friend too00:35
Ar-raswhere you get the best software for the best device with the best internet connection00:35
GeneralAntillesYHYHIAMHERE, Jabber Transports for MSN:
rhysGeneralAntilles: i just plugged in my Mic to the headphone jac00:35
rhysit doesnt work00:35
rhyswith maemorecoder anyway00:36
Ar-rasrhys i think you need adapter00:36
K`zanTouch screen is a DREAM compared to that Zire!00:36
YHYHIAMHEREcool thanks man00:36
YHYHIAMHEREooo people are hot heads here init00:36
L0cutusMciao maddler !00:36
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K`zanNot finding my phone, but that is OK.00:37
GeneralAntillesDiscoverable on?00:37
K`zanOk, had to get it to do it again...00:39
K`zandamn backlight keeps going off...00:39
GeneralAntillesYou can increase the timeout when you get through the wizards.00:39
YHYHIAMHEREthanks guys00:39
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K`zanOK, didn't want to set up the phone now, at the main screen....  Wheee!!!!!!!!!!!!!00:40
K`zanLets see if I can connect through my WAP...00:40
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Chris12349coooool,  I just successfully installed os 2008 on my n800, it is WAY better!00:42
Chris12349you tube actually works, its a little poky, but it is fairly smooth after the whole video loads00:42
Ar-rasnew OS on Iphone :D
L0cutusMwow great , im using an htc tytn as wifi AP for my n800 over PAN/hsdpa00:45
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||cwPAN is networking, wifi is networking, which are you using?00:46
||cwand hsdpa is more networking, though irrelevant on the n800 side00:47
L0cutusM||cw, htc tytn is an WM6 phone00:48
||cwi know that00:48
L0cutusMcapable only of pan connection00:49
||cwbut you are eather using wifi or pan00:49
||cwpan being bluetooth00:49
||cwwifi ap does about the same thing as a bt pan00:49
L0cutusMi have found on itt forum a thread on how to make tynt work as AP00:49
||cwok, but that's not pan00:50
L0cutusMusing wifi over pan00:50
||cwpan is bt networking, ap is wifi00:50
||cwyou don't understand.  wifi is one thing, bt is another00:50
L0cutusMyes i know00:50
||cwpan is for bt, ap is for wifi00:50
||cwdo not mix the terms00:50
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K`zanWell, wireless connection has some problem, working....00:51
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K`zanMust have screwed up entering the WEP key...00:52
GeneralAntillesYou're not using WPA2? :P>00:52
||cwL0cutusM: if you have software that allow the htc to act has a 802.11 access point, then you have wifi ap, if you are using BT pan and having the HTC route/NAT then you have PAN and a router00:53
K`zanNot here, unable to get it working with the laptop card under linux...00:53
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K`zanSays it is connected, but xfer after all this time is up to 1.46kb...00:53
K`zan3 minutes 20 sec and 2.5kb received and it still won't connect to the local web site.  Something wrong someplace.00:55
||cwL0cutusM: I see your confusion now, that is an interesting hack.  what that does is enable the "supported" PAN connection sharing, then hack the registry to change the device used to the wifi device.  it is indeed wifi sharing (though not an AP because it is ad-hoc) and PAN is not being used at all after step 300:55
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L0cutusMyes ||cw00:56
L0cutusM only wifi00:56
||cwok, so don't say PAN, because you aren't using that00:56
L0cutusMover wifi00:57
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L0cutusMstill very interesting00:57
||cwit is00:57
L0cutusMi can connect more distance than bt00:57
K`zan2 minutes and 1.1kb - going to see about editing the connection.00:58
sp3000could someone give a listing of
L0cutusMdoes exist ad-hoc signal repeater ?00:58
gla55_why not just buy an access point01:00
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L0cutusMgla55_, i need to extend my tytn wifi signal01:01
L0cutusMi have not a dsl connection, only umts/hsdpa01:01
gla55_why not buy a powerful access point, connect your tytn to it instead of using crappy ad hoc and trying to find an obscure ad hoc extender01:02
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Klaus_Kinskiad-hoc signal repeater01:03
|Rmesh network for the people! ;)01:03
Klaus_Kinskisuch a stupid device muaha01:03
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Klaus_Kinskiif you need a device for organizing wireless networks then ad-hoc is kind of senseless01:04
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L0cutusMtytn is able only to act as ad-hoc01:05
L0cutusMso is possible to use an ap ?01:06
L0cutusMinternet <>tytn(ad-hoc)<>AP<>other wifi devices01:06
Klaus_Kinskiyou want to share your GPRS?01:07
gla55_if it's possible with adhoc it should be possible with normal ap based networks01:08
Klaus_Kinskii think it would be possible with OpenWrt01:08
Klaus_Kinskibut I find it a little bit senseless...01:08
gla55_..his phone already does the sharing, no?01:08
gla55_thats not an issue01:09
Klaus_Kinskiyou are right01:09
gla55_just getting wider coverage01:09
Klaus_Kinskisetting wlan01:09
K`zan5.8 kb in 8 minutes, sigh...  No go wireless wise.01:09
Klaus_Kinskiand then his phone as proxy01:09
gla55_which he should get by using ap based instead of ad-hoc01:09
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L0cutusMso an AP can do the job ?01:10
Klaus_Kinskiwe dont garantee01:10
Klaus_Kinskibecause your htc is based on WM0601:11
Klaus_Kinskiand WM06 sucks01:11
L0cutusMyeah i know :)01:11
L0cutusMbut not so bad after all01:11
GeneralAntillesK`zan, making progress? :D01:13
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L0cutusMi need an app like cash organizer on n800...01:14
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Klaus_KinskiL0cutusM go away01:14
Klaus_Kinskiit's like the guy who asked for WM06 for N80001:15
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L0cutusMif there is a palmos emulator...01:17
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L0cutusMwhy not a wm6 emulator than ? :)01:17
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GeneralAntillesWhy not emulate everything01:17
GeneralAntillesthen we wouldn't even NEED a platform!01:18
K`zanWell I can ping the n800 and traceroute it but still no web page will load on the n800...01:18
K`zanSigh, the old WG511 card on the Solo works blazingly fast.01:19
K`zanPerhaps try setting a static IP for it, about out of ideas.01:19
K`zanNo open networks around here.01:19
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GeneralAntillesYou could try temporarily opening yours.01:19
K`zanCould, but I am not sure I want to screw up all the other devices for this one...01:20
GeneralAntillesWell, for testing.01:20
K`zanMAC is correct and WEP key is correct and still 400 bytes in 2 minutes.01:20
GeneralAntillesTry a different channel?01:21
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GeneralAntillesPower saving settings could be weird01:21
K`zanNo one else on that channel but me...01:21
GeneralAntillescheck it under connection settings in control panel01:21
* GeneralAntilles 's NITs have always worked perfectly with his routers, so he has no experience with wireless troubleshooting. :(01:21
K`zanShows a full signal (should, 5' from device) and a lock with a single keyhole (all the rest have 3, wonder what that means)...01:23
GeneralAntillesWEP is so stupidly insecure. :P01:23
K`zanThen I shitcan everything else using the WAP...01:23
GeneralAntillesWhat router?01:23
K`zanYes, it is, but the other cards just don't work under linux and I am not running wincrap anything :-)01:24
Klaus_KinskiGeneralAntilles use WEP2 it is safer then WPA and WEP01:24
Klaus_KinskiNOT ;)01:24
K`zanCisco / Linksys WRT54GX01:24
K`zanSome asshole wants in, they are going to get in...01:24
K`zanEsp with the local TV stations showing everyone how easy it is...01:25
GeneralAntillesMaybe something with Speedbooster?01:25
K`zanDunno, could dig the old Belkin out of the closet and try that.01:25
K`zanSo much for this day, sigh.01:25
GeneralAntillesIt's only 6:30PM :P01:26
K`zanOnly 1526 here :-)01:26
K`zanAbout to toss it back in the box...01:26
GeneralAntillesThe N800?01:27
_Monkeythe n800 is much better than a desk phone :-)01:27
kriebelI'm sure this has been covered, but it has to be faster use USB or a card reader01:27
kriebelor is this real time?01:27
GeneralAntillesCan you access an http server on a local box?01:28
GeneralAntillesHow are the speeds there?01:28
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K`zanWould be nice to be able to run ifconfig and netstat...01:28
GeneralAntillesYou could try a restart if you haven't.01:28
czrK`zan, /sbin/ifconfig01:29
GeneralAntillesor try reconnecting01:29
czrand you can build your own netstat, the one in busybox is pretty useless01:29
czr-> sleep01:30
K`zanczr is there a terminal in here someplace, still looking...01:30
czrK`zan, what are you using?01:31
GeneralAntillesIt's got to be installed01:31
GeneralAntillesHell, flash 200801:31
czrhmm. I think one needed to install it separately on the 200701:31
GeneralAntillesYeah, it's not bundled with 200701:31
czrK`zan, look for osso-terminal in the application manager and install it01:31
GeneralAntillesNo interweb01:31
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czror was it osso-xterminal. or interweb. as long as you take the 2007 version01:31
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* rafl has problems with microb and youtube.01:32
GeneralAntillesJust go ahead and do this, K`zan. :P
czranyhow, sleeps ->01:32
raflthe flash player loads and plays the first few seconds and then just disapears.01:32
raflanyone else experiencing this?01:32
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Can't get out on the device...01:32
GeneralAntillesDownload the OS2008 image on your computer and flash it.01:32
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K`zanGeneralAntilles: Then none of the apps I want will run for now LOL!01:33
GeneralAntillesPlus, that situation is going to change very rapidly over the next two weeks.01:34
K`zanxchat, maemo mapper and a few others...01:34
ol_schoolahow is mapper coming along? i look today but not very thorough01:34
GeneralAntillesNo word yet.01:35
K`zanFigured I format the SD cards, can't find that yet LOL!01:35
GeneralAntillesFile Manager01:35
_MonkeyFile Manager is a lot faster in scanning directories..01:35
K`zanDid get the screen from going dark every 10 seconds though!01:35
ol_schoolawell, no hurry for me. just got the 800 a week ago and managed to get chinook running on the internal card01:36
ol_schoolagps receiver works great, the map app is kinda lame01:36
GeneralAntillesIt's not great.01:36
raflol_schoola: what gps receiver did you get? the nokia navigation kit thingy or something else?01:36
GeneralAntillesI think offline navigation and lots of POIs are the selling points.01:36
ol_schoolai thought that going to Find: and typing just a streetno and street name together on the street field produced interesting results01:37
K`zanKeeps connecting to the WAP, but nothing happens with it.01:37
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GeneralAntillesTry a restart01:37
GeneralAntillesor try the Belkin.01:37
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't like some settings on your router.01:38
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GeneralAntillesDoes it have an IP?01:38
ol_schoolait would find the nearest street of that name, lookup the number and then truncate and move the number to its field01:38
GeneralAntillesI'll still be using maemo mapper. :)01:39
ol_schoolaour garmins and magellan don't do that01:39
GeneralAntillesHopefully it'll be fixed by release.01:39
GeneralAntillesYou might try submitting a bug.01:39
chelliGeneralAntilles, K`zan: i am working on maemo-mapper right now, it seems to work with some minor problems, i'll try to fix them an send a patch to gnuite01:39
ol_schoolaheck, i haven't even had a chance to use mapper with the gps yet. it arrived yesterday when my futzing about killed the 2007 install01:39
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K`zanAbout 3/4 charged now :)01:41
chellianyone interested in testing maemo-mapper? see:
K`zanGonna drag the belkin out and see it this thing works with that.01:41
L0cutusMgood night !01:42
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GeneralAntillesPrefs dialog makes me laugh, chelli.01:44
chelliyes, this is one of the issues :)01:44
chellithe other one is that the sand-clock is now shown as it should :)01:44
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GeneralAntillesI should probably put my SD card back in. :D01:45
TPCchelli, I'll test it if you compile it for OS2008 :P01:45
TPCoh wait, that is for OS200801:45
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chelliTPC: yes, it is :)01:46
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TPCsure, I'll test it right away01:46
GeneralAntillesLot faster.01:46
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GeneralAntillesA LOT faster.01:47
TPCnow to figure out how to restore my old settings from before I reflashed01:49
GeneralAntillesbackup. ;)01:49
TPCI did a backup01:49
K`zanNope, it doesn't work with the belkin either - back in the box it goes, sigh...01:49
TPCbut I only want to restore maemo mapper settings, not all settings01:49
raflthat didn't work for me for 2007 -> 2008. it lost my rss feeds, for example.01:49
penguinbaithey anybody have and idea why ubuntu asks for CD everytime I run apt-get01:50
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TPCpenguinbait, comment out the cd line in sources.list01:50
raflpenguinbait: because you have a cdrom:// entry in /etc/apt/sources.list or /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*01:50
chelliok, i guess i will send the patch to the maemo-mapper dev's, it work ok for the moment, they can fix the remaining issues :)01:50
GeneralAntillesCheck your power saving settings, K`zan.01:50
GeneralAntillesCan you actually confirm that it got an IP?01:50
GeneralAntillesOpen up connection manager.01:51
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penguinbaitthank you :)01:51
GeneralAntillesManage maps crashes it, chelli.01:51
penguinbaitit was pissing me off01:51
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penguinbaitNot a big ubuntu or deb fan, I was always a redhat guy01:52
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Maybe not on this one - before I always use a static IP, checking.  Did on the Linksys though.01:52
GeneralAntillesCheck the power savings, too.01:52
K`zanTrying to find those saved connections to delete them01:52
GeneralAntillesIt might be set to 10mw01:52
K`zanLemme find those first.01:52
chelliGeneralAntilles: ok, i'll investigate this before sending the patch :)01:52
GeneralAntillesGoto lat/long is direct to crash, too.01:52
chellias i said, it's not perfect yet :)01:53
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GeneralAntillesOf course. :P01:53
GeneralAntillesI'm "testing" :P01:53
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K`zanWhere are the power settings ?!?01:54
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GeneralAntillesUnder the connection prefs01:54
GeneralAntillesfor a saved connection01:54
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K`zanLOL, where are the connection prefs, nothing in control panel - yet...01:55
GeneralAntillesConnection Manager: App menu -> Tools -> Connectivity settings...01:55
GeneralAntilles-> Connections01:55
GeneralAntillesPick the saved connection01:55
GeneralAntillesThen -> Edit01:55
K`zanDon't have connectivity...01:55
GeneralAntillesNext -> Next01:55
GeneralAntillesIt's a separate application01:56
GeneralAntillesConnection Manager01:56
GeneralAntillesIn the menu of that app01:56
K`zanapp manager, backup / restore / control panel / connection manager / teach handwiring...01:56
GeneralAntillesUnder Tools or Utilities01:56
GeneralAntillesDon't recall01:56
GeneralAntillesDid you test local network transfers?01:57
GeneralAntillesOr just internet?01:57
K`zanWLAN idle times unlimnited...01:57
K`zanDoesn't access LAN either, have a web server on the lan...01:57
GeneralAntillesTry connecting to the webserver.01:57
penguinbaitI am looking for some input on optimizing KDE, currently I do not do anything but run configure, make, make install, or whatever, I have never added any CPU flags, recently lardman mentioned "-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp".  My question is when I look in Kinfocenter in KDE, it shows processor features "swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java"  Could any of the features be usefull  , Please forgive my01:57
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ol_schoolamissing libgdm3. what's the quickest way to pick that up? i haven't had enough time to get all the repos straight, yet01:58
K`zanNothing with power levels in it that I can find...01:58
GeneralAntillesDid you hit that button?01:58
K`zanArgh, no advanced button in any of this01:59
GeneralAntilleslet me open Connection Manager back up01:59
GeneralAntillesYou didn't follow my steps. :P01:59
GeneralAntillesTools -> Connectivity -> _Connections01:59
GeneralAntillesThen the saved connection for your network02:00
GeneralAntillesnext, next02:00
GeneralAntillesOther tab.02:00
K`zanNo advanced - pick a connection and you have: Connection name, type and ...02:00
chelliGeneralAntilles: i guess i know where the problem is in the code, but right now i do not know how to fix it, i'll read some porting docs :)02:00
K`zanLOL, finally - 100mW02:01
GeneralAntillesNow, MAYBE, try turning power saving off.02:01
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K`zanGoing to try setting up the connection manually.02:01
GeneralAntillesTest that local http server, too, though.02:01
K`zanOnly choices there are 10mW and 100mW,,,02:02
penguinbaitis mplayer working in 2008?02:02
GeneralAntilles100mw is what you want02:03
GeneralAntillesNo, penguinbait.02:03
GeneralAntillesIt has to be ported02:03
K`zancat /etc/resolv.conf02:03
GeneralAntillesWell, there IS a port02:04
GeneralAntillesbut it's not optimized02:04
TPCstupid gconf won't let me restore my old maemo mapper settings02:04
GeneralAntillesand is, therefor, completely useless compared to the built-in media player02:04
GeneralAntilles(which works quite wonderfully for me)02:04
penguinbaitI am using smplayer in KDE, which is just a frontend to mplayer02:04
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penguinbaitso I guess I wait :(02:04
Andy80GeneralAntilles: you mean that the wifi is more powerfull now?02:05
penguinbaitI am sure it wont be long :)02:05
GeneralAntillesUh, no, it's always been 100mw02:05
TPCmplayer has seeking problems in OS200802:05
GeneralAntillesI just stabbing in the dark. ;)02:05
TPCwhen playing movies02:05
TPCotherwise it seems to work fine to me02:05
TPCaltought I use it for music mostly :P02:05
GeneralAntillesI was getting nasty tearing.02:05
Andy80GeneralAntilles: always been 100mw but it was set to 10, right?02:06
penguinbaitI use Juk02:06
K`zanYeah!  Setting a static IP (etc.) it works now!02:06
GeneralAntillesWell, there you go.02:06
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Thanks for your help and especially your patience :-)!02:06
GeneralAntillesIt's the least I can do after what I make others put up with. ;)02:06
GeneralAntillesBut, sure. :)02:06
K`zanNo Sir, It is hard somethings with newbies who are dense, APPRECIATE your efforts *MUCH*!02:07
penguinbaitI am wondering wy juk can find all my music is seconds, and I dont know what the heck metalayer-crawler02:07
penguinbaitis doing02:07
K`zanNow I have a headcomputer too LOL02:07
GeneralAntillesLooking for women02:07
GeneralAntillesand failing miserably.02:07
GeneralAntillesmetalayer-crawler is very lonely.02:08
K`zanLOL, dating these days would scare the hell out of me.  As a very good friend once told me - there is no piece of ass worth dying for "...02:08
GeneralAntillesSo, K`zan, get the repos, install becomeroot and openssh, and enable swap on the internal card in the control panel.02:08
GeneralAntillesThen hack up /etc/mce/mce.ini for soft poweroff02:09
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GeneralAntillesYes, lonely, penguinbait, it spends all its time looking for companionship on your SD cards and finding none. ;)02:09
penguinbaitWhy not just have a button that says search, press it after you add some music02:10
penguinbaitseems crazy to me02:10
penguinbaitmaybe we can write a script to keep it company02:11
GeneralAntillesMeh, that's a lot of work.02:11
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penguinbaitI am looking for some input on optimizing KDE, currently I do not do anything but run configure, make, make install, or whatever, I have never added any CPU flags, recently lardman mentioned "-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp".  My question is when I look in Kinfocenter in KDE, it shows processor features "swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java"  Could any of the features be usefull  , Please forgive my02:12
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penguinbaitI still need some help with this, where are all the brains>02:12
GeneralAntillesTry #kde?02:14
chelliGeneralAntilles: can you check if it still crashes? (at least manage maps does not crash here anymore) :)02:14
GeneralAntillesOne sec02:14
ol_schoolacan do02:14
penguinbaitI did, I am wondering more about the CPU flags on the n80002:14
GeneralAntillesTry compiling both ways and do a side-by-side?02:14
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GeneralAntillesYeah, that did it, chelli.02:17
GeneralAntillesJust fix up the hourglass and the repos dialog now.02:17
chellii'll look at it, but the maemo-mapper-devs will get the current patch in a few minutes :)02:18
GeneralAntillesThey can fix the rest themselves.02:18
TPCchelli, OS2008 port seems to work fine to me02:18
chelliGeneralAntilles: what was exactly wrong with the repos dialog? (looks ok here so far)02:19
chelliTPC: good to know02:20
chellihmm, very interesting :)02:23
chelliit looks totally ok here :)02:23
erich141chelli: it looks exactly like for General on my n80002:24
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chellifrom the picture it looks like some really ugly problem with the translations - maybe it just does not occur with german configured on the n80002:26
GeneralAntillesI'd test out another one02:28
GeneralAntillesbut then I'd have to restart. :P02:28
cesmandoes anyone have a direct link to the last OS2007 firmware?02:29
TPCchelli, I get a segfault when trying to go into the manage maps dialog02:29
GeneralAntillesRunning the latest version, TPC?02:30
chelliTPC: try the newest version :)02:30
TPCI didn't notice02:30
GeneralAntillesBest to be done, cesman:
chelliok, i'll try it with English (USA) right now02:31
TPCchelli, I have another weird problem, with every dialog button02:31
cesmanthanks GeneralAntilles, the site seems to be having issues at the moment02:31
TPCbut I don't think its related with your port02:31
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TPCas I saw it in a few another apps on OS200702:31
chelliok, now the repos dialog is broken here too :)02:32
TPCrather than saying ok it will say something like ecdgbdconfirmationnoteok as the button text02:32
TPCI think its because its lacking translations for the locale I'm using02:33
TPCand doesn't default to english for some reason02:33
chelliTPC: where exactly?02:33
TPCin various places, but not everywhere, the "really clear the track?" is one example02:34
TPCdialog is*02:34
chellithe dialog is ok here - i guess it is really just a problem with the translations (i did not change a single line of code regarding translations, so i guess it might be related to the chinook SDK somehow, i'll investigate) :)02:36
TPChere is a screenshot:
ol_schoolaheh. i get an error overlaying the Manage Repo screen, says to contact Last Translator: John Costigan02:37
disqKagu: we have issued an update (1.0.10-2) to fix a crash while playing songs with "track#" info missing in their id3. Should be in your Application Manager update screens soon.02:37
TPCI have my device set to use swedish language02:37
TPCchelli, anyway, could you drop me a PM if you release any more fixed versions? I'm gonna sleep now, but will be using my GPS tomorrow and don't want to miss any fixed versions if gnuite doesn't make an official build before I leave tomorrow02:39
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chelliTPC: yes, no problem02:39
TPCok, thanks02:40
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K`zanApp manager seems to have only the nokia stuff...02:45
GeneralAntillesYou have to install the extra repos02:47
GeneralAntillesWell, not "install"02:47
K`zanTanks, will have to do this again in 2008, I guess.02:47
chelliGeneralAntilles: i think i found the problem, just a few minutes and the will be a fixed version :)02:48
GeneralAntillesHehe, how about OS2008 now, K`zan? :P02:48
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disqthis huge bookmarks screen is bugging me02:52
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ol_schoolaIs  K`zan  booting of internal card yet?03:00
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't bother with that for now.03:00
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ol_schoolai'm no linux newb but i had a some bumps and bruises the second go-around. hiccups with 200803:02
GeneralAntilles2008 went perfectly fine for me.03:03
* pupnik starts working on ports again03:04
K`zanmaemo respositories barf out...03:04
K`zanGonna try it via the web...03:05
ol_schoolathe flash went fine but i had a devil of a time. threw some new cards in, had a bad one03:05
ol_schoolacloning just didn't want to go well for me03:05
Klaus_KinskiDo you think it is possible to realize that under N800 too?03:05
ol_schoolai've been thinking about the requirements for a03:06
chelliGeneralAntilles: should fix the repos dialog (its not really a fix, just a workaround - i just disabled translations, but i guess it wont hurt you) :)03:09
disqmmapper chinook? mmm-mm i should install that03:10
ol_schoola...universal remote control, inteligent programming, like a Pronto03:10
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chellidisq: yes, please do that, but keep in mind that is not the official port, so do not blame the mmapper devs for mistakes i made ;-)03:11
disqok no worries03:11
ol_schoolaKlaus_Kinski: easily done with lirc, a nearby linux/win/mac and an IR blaster/blinkers03:12
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Klaus_Kinskiol_schoola ok porting lirc03:13
Klaus_Kinskiol_schoola but what with the hardware?03:13
Anastasiaup on the n800!!!03:14
erich141chelli: everything looks good now except for "busy" cursor03:14
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chellidisq: the only issues with the port seems that the hourglass is not displayed right and that i had to disable translated texts03:14
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chellierich141: yes, i know03:14
Anastasiade k`zan...03:14
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disqchelli: did you change the select db file dialog?03:17
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disqworks fine btw, thanks03:17
chellidisq: not really, whats different compared to the bora version?03:17
disqIIRC it let you choose the db file (like a open file dialog)03:18
disqnow you choose the dir and type the filename manually03:18
ol_schoolathe tablet issues commands to an lircd on your "IR server" via the telnet interface and that instance of lirc drives a serial/usb blaster or blinkers03:19
chelliare you sure? (i did not touch the code there, as far as i can tell)03:19
disqno i'm not sure. no big deal anyways03:19
K` seems to be overloaded :-).  May be a good sign that I am not alone :)03:19
Klaus_Kinskiol_schoola ????03:23
_Monkeyol_schoola is, like, afk for the next three hours03:23
ol_schoolahush _Monkey03:23
ol_schoolaKlaus_Kinski: lirc works via udp, too, right?03:24
Klaus_Kinskidont know03:25
Klaus_Kinskibut my problem is not the software!03:26
Klaus_KinskiN800 has afaik no infrared03:26
ol_schoolawell, the tablet kicks commands via udp to an intermediary box, say a linux machine running lircd and irxevent. using creartive scripting and a serial IR blaster on that machine, you could control a very large entertainment center.03:26
ol_schoolawhole house if you got some spare time03:27
Klaus_Kinskii want to have a remote control in my N80003:27
ol_schoolaand i'm proposing a method of turning the n800 into a remote control ;)03:27
Klaus_Kinskiand not a server running... and sending via Wifi commands to lircserver03:28
Klaus_Kinskiinfrared remote control03:28
ol_schoolawell, without the third party, you'll need a steady hand installing the IR emitter03:28
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GeneralAntillesYou could also attach an IR blaster to the audio out, no?03:29
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ol_schoolaGeneralAntilles: good call, I'd forgotten about that03:30
GeneralAntillesSeems to me that Griffin sold something like that for the old iPods03:30
Klaus_Kinskii mentioned that 30 min ago03:31
Klaus_Kinskilol[02:05] <Klaus_Kinski>
ol_schoolaGeneralAntilles: erm, not sure if the blaster would work on the audio with lirc per se. there is a alsa-audio-in receive driver, not sure about a transmit driver03:34
ol_schoolaKlaus_Kinski: now I get it, was on a different wavelength. looks interesting....03:34
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pupnikI want a parallel port on my N80003:35
pupnikhow can i do this?03:35
Klaus_KinskiMails about Total irRemote will go to /dev/null unread.03:35
micky_what for pupnik?03:37
GeneralAntillesLots of soldering, pupnik?03:37
ol_schoolaKlaus_Kinski: i guess that answers that03:40
chelliok, the chinook-patches for maemo were just sent to gnuite, so lets hope to see a official port soon :)03:40
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chellis/maemo/maemo-mapper/ :)03:40
ol_schoolachelli: working great so far here03:41
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chellii just removed the partly broken version and, so that people only use which should fix most of the issues (except the hourglass-problem)03:43
chellii'll go to sleep now, cu03:46
pupnikdpkg-buildpackage: source version is 0.71-0.103:46
ol_schoolahmmm, i've had a lot of exp with manipulation of and capturing IR. i'm kinda leary of that method03:46
pupnikIS NOT.  i changed version to 0.72-0.103:46
disqchelli: are you compiling the binary with omap2420 specific optimizations?03:46
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ol_schoolachelli: ty, have a good one03:46
disqthe makefile probably has them already though.03:47
disqah he's gone03:47
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pupnikoh it gets it from the changelog03:48
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K`zanAnyone able to get into ?03:51
ol_schoolanot here03:52
penguinbaitits been crapping out all day03:52
ol_schoolai hope it's a DOS from a flurry of commits03:53
* konttori_ is depressed. setup vmware, setup the gpg, ssh keys, recreated the changes and dsc files, used debsign to sign them , used dput to publish them to repositories. Got the supposed return values and... nothing. ukmp is not there on the repos. 03:56
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K`zanThanks folks, thought it was just me :-).03:58
konttori_ahh.. I hope that would somehow be affecting my package acceptance to the repositories.03:59
K`zanGonna go snarf 2008, assuming that would be wise to do now - or should I wait until formal release.03:59
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Klaus_Kinskiwhen i install mono on N800, can i run programms which i wrote with Visual Studio?04:01
penguinbaitsorry no clue04:02
pupniki feel soiled just reading that04:03
K`zanLOL, no kidding.04:05
K`zanGoing to wipe now :)04:05
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Klaus_Kinskigood night04:08
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penguinbaitwere you guys being me and scaring people off04:10
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penguinbaitwere you guys being mean and scaring people off04:10
penguinbaitsome type of freudian slip04:11
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pupnikfrom the ITT forums:  Crayon Physics Game
konttori_It's there!04:13
konttori_It's been such a long road for me.04:13
konttori_eventually, I had to submit to using linux to send the stuff.04:14
konttori_oh well. can't have it all04:14
disqcongrats :)04:14
konttori_thanks. Small step for you guys, but big one for me.04:14
penguinbaitfurther than Ive gone :)04:15
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milhouseanyone seen it seems to have disappeared...04:15
penguinbaitCan I upload a 400MB deb to garage :)04:15
Synchronicitymilhouse I can't access it either04:15
konttori_garage supports up to 8 megs or something like that04:16
penguinbaitits been in and out all day04:16
milhouseglad it's not just me - thanks :)04:16
konttori_although, the svn seems to support pretty much anything04:16
konttori_I accidentally included my test mp3s on one commit.04:16
konttori_40 megs of faulty mp3s. Apparently didn't scare off the server.04:17
penguinbaitI almost, sent out beta kde with konqueror auto login to internettablettalk.com04:17
penguinbaitrepackaged before anyone got to it04:17
penguinbaitsome anyone using the bookmark would login as penguinbait automatically04:18
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zerojaymilhouse: I noticed it go down right around 5pm EST.04:21
zerojaydisq: That previous version of Kagu that I had the weird D-bus failure message when I tried to install... well, despite saying installation failure, it was still installed and still worked.04:22
milhousezerojay: not good as it's not knackered the application maanager which just hangs... if nokia are going to get serious about this with masses of users they need more resilient infra04:23
milhouses/not knackered/now knackered/04:23
infobotmilhouse meant: zerojay: not good as it's now knackered the application maanager which just hangs... if nokia are going to get serious about this with masses of users they need more resilient infra04:23
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milhouseor announce any outages if this outage is planned04:23
milhouseat least bugzilla is still working :)04:23
milhouseanyone able to confirm what happens in os2008 xterm if you type "exit" at the command line? my xterm stays open with a useless blank window and i have to close the app with "x"04:24
penguinbaitI hope they are sending out 500 REALLY BIG EMAIL, saying where to use our developer discounts04:24
milhousewould make more sense if the app closed (like the old xterm)04:24
milhousepenguinbat - nah, it will probably be another enourmous stacktrace04:25
zerojaypenguinbait: It will be at nokiausa, which will redirect us to
zerojayAt least that's what happened when I ordered my N800 direct from Nokia.04:25
penguinbaitI know this, but I want it to be the reason maemo is down04:25
konttori_millhouse: we were not able to get that bug fixed for xterm on time.04:25
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zerojaypenguinbait: Hehe. Me too.04:26
konttori_sorry about that. also, same thing applies to ctrl-d04:26
milhouseknotorri - so it's already logged? cool... should i bother opening it in bugzilla anyway ?04:26
zerojaymilhouse: Want to possibly see something weird?04:26
disqzerojay: how weird? uh04:26
milhousezerojay: sure why not... :)04:26
konttori_anyway, if you have good suggestions, let me know. I'm managing the project still.04:26
acydlordmilhouse, xterm closed fine for me when i exited04:26
milhouseknotorri - my only suggestion would be for it to close, and for the "close" menu to include an extra menu item "close this window" as per the browser as multiple xterm sessions are possible but the only "close" option is "close all windows"04:27
milhousei'll open a bug and make those suggestions04:27
konttori_xterm source is in garage in exactly the shape that you have on the device (ok, there are bug fixes as well)04:27
zerojaymilhouse: Lock your N800. After it dims, hit the power key to make the screen come back on with the message "now press []04:27
acydlordmaybe mine closing correctly was a bug =x04:27
milhouseas they're kind of related04:27
zerojaymilhouse: Then just repeatedly press anywhere on the screen.04:27
pupnikSerge / ssvb fixes critical memory corruption bug in all OS2006 firmwares04:27
zerojaymilhouse: The N800 can't decide which version of the "press power then []" warning to use.04:28
pupnik  memory bug fix for IT200604:28
zerojayKeeps switching from the old two line version to the single line and back with each button press.04:28
disqzerojay: i think it's a feature04:28
zerojaydisq: It's inconsistant. Bug.04:28
disqzerojay: it's consistent. only switches between the two, in order. that's consistency04:28
zerojayOkay, you got me there. :)04:29
penguinbaitdid anyone else notice that when you lock the screen it does not turn it off, it dims as normal?04:29
milhousezerojay - fck it! my buttons have gone AWOL again, cheers! ;)04:29
zerojaySorry, dude.04:29
zerojaypenguinbait: Turns it off here.04:29
penguinbaithmmanyone else?04:29
milhouseit's locked and i can't unlock it!!! kontorri - any ideas if this is logged/fixed etc.? lock the device and it forgets it has button making power+d-pad centre to unlock impossible04:29
disqzerojay: it always starts with the two-line version. if a warning is already present on the screen, it shows the other one04:30
zerojaypenguinbait: Well, dims and then turns off.04:30
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penguinbaityes mine too, it used to go off immediately04:30
disqsoftpoweroff won't lock the screen though. wish it did04:30
penguinbaitIf I set my display to not turn off for an hour, this is goin to be a problem04:30
penguinbaitperhaps its because its not meant for this hardware??04:31
milhousexterm isn't listed in applications on bugzilla :(04:31
zerojayFile a bug to add it.04:31
milhousethanks :)04:31
penguinbaitcan you post a bug for software you are not supposed to have?04:31
milhousewill probably appear once OS2008 is launched officially04:32
konttori_milhouse, file the bug in garage project04:32
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milhouseok kontorri04:32
_Monkeykontorri are you in?!? :)04:32
konttori_If you have the time / interest, you can fix the bug yourself as well.04:32
zerojayWell, considering the fact that there's been zero response about the leak (that I've seen), I wouldn't think they're too worried about it.04:32
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konttori_The most current xterm / vte versions are right there in garage (in case you can access it some day).04:33
milhouseof course that will probably have to wait until returns...04:33
zerojayFound it funny that someone had the balls to have a post about how to update right on Planet.04:33
disqzerojay yeah i noticed that too :)04:33
konttori_gbtv announced it as well04:33
konttori_i think that was pretty cool04:33
milhousenow how do i file this buttons bug - i'm not really sure how to trigger it as nobody else seems to have it04:33
milhouseooh garage is up04:33
zerojayA nice 50/50 battle over buried/loved too.04:33
zerojaymilhouse: What buttons bug?04:34
penguinbaitthe developers should have already had access to some sort of beta anyway04:34
milhousewhen i lock my device, it forgets it has any buttons04:34
milhouseso i can't unlock it04:34
penguinbaitdevelopment should be ahead of the curve04:34
milhouseneed to reboot it04:34
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milhousegarage is v. slow04:34
zerojayI've had that happen to me once or twice on ITOS2007.04:34
milhousenever had it happen to me on 2007 but it's a regular occurrence on 200804:35
zerojayI've never had it happen on 2008.04:35
milhouseknotorri - is this the link for the 2008 xterm?
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milhouseaha... i didn't reboot it and left it along for a few minutes and now the buttons are working again so i could unlock it... wierd.04:36
konttori_milhouse: yeah04:36
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konttori_so, if you want the latest and greatest, take a look into the osso-xterm and vte folders04:37
konttori_should be easy to compile04:37
milhouseisn't it going to be a bit confusing having some items of the firmware (such as xterm) tracked in garage and the remaining items in bugzilla?04:37
milhousekontorri - that's well out of my capabilities! :)04:38
konttori_yeah. I can ask for the xterm to be added to the public bugzilla. Just thought that if you'd like to report it now, you could do it in garage04:38
milhouseah i see - ok i'm adding it now to garage can cut&paste later once xterm is added to bugzilla04:39
konttori_sounds good.04:39
milhousein fact i'll add one bug (not closing) and one enhancement (close this window)04:39
disqzerojay: do you remember the dbus error message? something about machine-id maybe?04:40
zerojaydisq: No, but I pasted it here. You should be able to find it in the #maemo IRC logs.04:40
disqoh ok. and this was 1.0.10, right?04:40
disqthen it's normal. fixed in 1.0.10 which we released tonight :P04:41
milhouseshouldn't we have the IT OS operating systems added to the garage list of Operating Systems when reporting bugs?04:41
zerojayYep. I tried updating and it wouldn't work. Removing .9 and then installing .10 worked fine.04:41
zerojaymilhouse: It is in the list in Bugzilla.04:41
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milhousenot in garage04:41
zerojayI would say that's reasonable enough.04:41
konttori_we had the plan for the close window for a long time ( at least a few weeks), but we had to drop it at some point. I think it's commented out in the code, so if you compile it, you should be able to enable it easily04:41
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zerojaymilhouse: Another bug to file. :)04:42
disqzerojay: that's because you installed 1.0.9 from the bora repository probably. had the same thing here too. app-mgr now apparently keeps track of which repository you installed a file before upgrading to prevent corruptions04:42
zerojayI'd file it myself, but I spent all day with my eyeballs glued to my company's bugzilla and I'm just not in the mood right now. ;)04:42
zerojaydisq: Yep.04:43
milhousequite a few of the drop downs in the "new bug" form on garage need some attention (Hardware: DEC, HP, SGI, Sun!) and Component (Cog A, Cog B) - bizarre04:43
zerojaySome of those are Bugzilla defaults.04:43
milhouseyeah just saying they could do with some cleaning up04:45
milhousewould have thought we'd be in better shape by now04:45
elbso I guess it's odd that doesn't load at all, for me, then04:45
milhousenot odd at all04:46
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elbI just flipped over here and saw people talking about garage (which I cannot load, either)04:46
elband assumed that meant it worked ;-)04:46
milhousegarage is loading very slowly04:46
milhousebugzilla is fine04:47 is knackered04:47
elbahh, I see04:47
zerojayelb: Hey.04:47
elbno doubt I would have learned this if I read more scrollback :-)04:47
elbzerojay: hi04:47
milhousedunno why, a moose probably sat on the cable. or something equally bizarre and unlikely.04:48
elba squirrel chewed through the cable that connected the building my office is in and the rest of the world, a few months ago04:48
elbAND the redundant backup fiber04:49
elbit sucked04:49
zerojayIn Ohio a few months ago, there was a big fibre outage.04:49
rhykinmilhouse: site not working? :/04:49
zerojayTurns out it was because of a drive-by shooting.04:49
elbsomeone shot a fiber?04:49
zerojayNot on purpose.04:50
zerojayBut yeah.04:50
elbno doubt04:50
milhouseelb - someone actually did that a while ago, pumped it full of shotgun pellets (can't remember where, somewhere in the states)04:50
elbI know there was a problem a while back with some kids shooting out power lines somewhere in the frozen north of the US04:50
milhouseobviously tin cans where in short supply at the time04:51
elbhah Cleveland04:51
elbyeah taht's the same story, more or less04:51
elbexcept interwebz instead of power lines04:51
elbpeople who intentionally damage public property should be punished severely :-P04:52
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GeneralAntillesNo kidding.04:53
elbsevere damage to 2/3 mile of buried cable ... that has to be intentional04:54
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Didn't like what you found on Jablet? ;)04:54
elbI don't see how it's even possible, it must not have been buried more than a trivial distance04:55
GeneralAntillesHmm, zerojay?04:55
zerojayGeneralAntilles: I'm just kidding. I noticed that you registered, that's all.04:55
GeneralAntillesthen I thought about moving all my contacts and changing Jabber servers. .  .04:56
zerojayThat's what the server calls it. ;P04:56
milhouseelb: assuming they were buried in the first place, could have been suspended (to save money)04:56
elbmilhouse: the article that references says the technicians "pulled up" the cable04:56
milhouseah right04:56
GeneralAntillesI'll get around to it eventually. :D04:56
elbso either it is mistaken (entirely possible), they are using bizarre terminology (possible), or it was buried04:56
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Well, you know your contacts on the different IM services will come with you, right? The only ones you'll need to readd are Jabber contacts.04:56
GeneralAntillesYeah, good point.04:57
elbthe media is nearly incompetent to cover anything, but as soon as it says "gun" they become *entirely* incompetent04:57
GeneralAntillesStill, changing my login info on the client . . . :P04:57
zerojayGeneralAntilles: I know some older servers (including the one on Dreamhost) don't bring them across, which sucks.04:57
rhykinsince the website is down, does anyone know where i could get directions to install the 3.2/4.0 maemo sdk?04:58
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Let me know if you need any help.. adding transports or whatever.04:58
GeneralAntillesWill do.04:58
zerojayAnd now to get to work on this Chumby thing.04:58
milhouseelb: no, the register article doesnn't say technicians "pulled up" the cables, it says the technicians "pulled" the cables (ie. they were removed)04:58
elbmilhouse: another article said "pulled up"04:59
* elb digs through his history04:59
milhouseoh right, sorry thought we were both reading the same article (the one i linked) :)04:59
elb"TeliaSonera, which lost the northern leg of its US network to the cut, said that the outage began in the early hours of yesterday morning, GMT. When technicians pulled up the affected cable, it appeared to have been shot." <--
milhousedunno then, seems bizarre for somene to be able to shoot such a length of buried cable04:59
elbas I said, the article that the one you posted *references* says they pulled it up05:00
zerojayI'm liking getting forum reply notices so much more from Jabber than by e-mail. So glad I finished that.05:00
elbmilhouse: particularly given that bullet penetration into soil is absolutely abysmal -- and they allude that it might have been shot, which is even *worse* (less than an inch for any but the largest shot)05:00
milhouseyeah, you'd have to be pretty determined... and for nobody to notice as well (it could have been in the middle of nowhere I suppose)05:01
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ferI'm having trouble to access , is there a problem in there?05:02
elbthere's plenty of places between Cleveland and Montville where no one would have noticed ;-)05:02
elbthere are also plenty of places where lots of people would have noticed, though, so who knows05:03
elbfreakish things happen all the time, I guess05:03
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jott hm this is interesting05:07
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pupnikhomeless guys under a bridge in minneapolis took out a fiber cable by setting a fire to keep warm05:17
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rhykinim confused05:22
rhykinwhat is:
GeneralAntillesLooks like the old maemo site.05:22
GeneralAntillesHa . . . I still remember the old Application Catalog wiki page.05:26
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GeneralAntillesIt was kinda nice have a one-page overview of all the software available for the platform05:28
GeneralAntilles(though a bit sad, too)05:28
K`zanSigh, can't import my bookmarks :-/.05:33
ferI'm upgrading my old 770 to the latest 2007os05:33
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ferdoes anyone know if skype or rtcomm SIP works?05:33
fer(on the 770 of course)05:33
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K`zanI just loaded some of my music to the internal card, how do I get the media player to find it, I can't find anything - like it expects it on the internal RAM?!?05:43
zerojayJust copy it over to the card.05:43
zerojayThat's all.05:43
zerojayIt will run metacrawler to find your music.05:43
K`zanDid, stock stuff is all that is showing.05:44
K`zanOk, lemme close and restart it.05:44
zerojayTry removing the card and putting it back in.05:44
penguinbaitI ran a girl script earlier to keep metalayer busy05:44
K`zanOK, lemme unplug and shut everything down and turn off...05:45
zerojayA girl script?05:45
penguinbaitthats probably why :)05:45
penguinbaitI guess you had to be here earlier :)05:45
K`zanCan I leave apps open when I remove/re-install the internal card?05:45
zerojayshouldn't make a difference05:46
penguinbaitGeneralAntilles> Yes, lonely, penguinbait, it spends all its time looking for companionship on your SD cards and finding none. ;)05:46
K`zanok, done, lets see if it finds the music directory now.05:46
penguinbaitwe didnt want it to be lonely anymore :)05:47
GeneralAntillesBlind date for metalayer-crawler?05:47
K`zanNope, still only finds the stock stuff :-/.  My music isn't going to fit on the internal memory :-(.05:47
K`zanWell, in small chunks anyway.05:47
GeneralAntillesGive it a minute05:47
zerojayK`zan: What tablet do you have?05:47
penguinbaithes a pleaser, it may take a while ;)05:47
K`zan2007, latest05:48
K`zanLibrary appears to be fixed in internal memory :-(.05:48
zerojayIt's not.05:48
K`zanRather useless...05:48
GeneralAntillesmetalayer-crawler will find media anywhere.05:48
K`zanI see no way to change it?!?05:48
zerojayAnd it's not.05:48
zerojayThere's no reason to change anything because it indexes both of your SD cards.05:49
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K`zan128M for system and apps doesn't leave much for things like music...05:49
GeneralAntillesK`zan, you aren't listening05:49
GeneralAntillesit indexes all memory for media files.05:49
zerojayBecause that's what the SD card slots are for.05:49
GeneralAntillesJust give it a minute.05:49
K`zanGeneralAntilles: What am I missing.05:49
K`zanIt has been sitting here for a bit now while I was looking through the menu...05:50
zerojayThe number of songs listed doesn't update on its own.05:50
zerojayYou have to kind of switch categories and if you go back, you'll notice the number's changed.05:50
zerojayK`zan: What format are your music files anyways?05:50
K`zanAll there in file manager...05:51
zerojayOpen media player.05:52
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K`zanOK, closed and re-launched - up.05:52
zerojayGo to the library.05:52
K`zanComes up in library.05:53
zerojaywhat comes up in library?05:53
K`zanMedia player05:53
_Monkeyrumour has it Media player is the only app running05:53
zerojayOpen Music.05:53
K`zanNo, got xchat and fbreader05:53
K`zan1 artist05:53
zerojayIf you double click the songs in file manager, will it play them?05:54
K`zandunno, lemme open that and give it try.05:54
K`zanThat worked!05:55
K`zanBrought it up in media player.05:55
K`zanNeeds a bit more bass :)05:55
zerojayDid you do anything stupid like create a recursive link on your memory cards or in your home directory?05:56
K`zanNo Sir.  Installed the SD cards and formatted them and used USB to this box to transfer stuff I wanted (including music) to the cards.05:56
K`zanAt this point I have no idea how to create something like that :).05:57
zerojayHave you done any sort of out of the ordinary changes to  your tablet?05:58
K`zanNo, just got it this afternoon, installed xchat, fbreader and got wireless working.05:58
zerojayvery odd.05:59
K`zanreverse order.05:59
K`zanSomething is weird... Stuff in playlist  but it is all null05:59
zerojayMaybe your mp3s are badly corrupted or just plain weird.06:00
GeneralAntillesReboot couldn't hurt.06:00
zerojayYes, reboot.06:00
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K`zanHow does one hold ctl-alt-del on this thing?06:01
zerojayHold down the power button for a few seconds.06:01
Robot101open the back, and do a patent-pending nokia flick to make the battery fall out (hit the device against your cupped hand)06:01
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zerojayRobot101: You don't have to do anything but pull it out.06:02
GeneralAntillesNeed fingernails for that. ;)06:02
zerojayNo, you don't.06:02
zerojayI don't have them.06:02
Robot101pull? this sounds like I have ti o involve my fingers. believe me, this is the quickest way. I can do it in about half a second. :)06:02
zerojaychew them off all the time. :)06:02
GeneralAntillesYeah, really, the flick is beautiful.06:03
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zerojayRobot101: If you don't mind subjecting your tablet to the shock, sure.06:03
K`zanNice blue behind the keys06:03
Robot101my tablets are all fine :)06:03
GeneralAntillesHehe, it's not a running hard drive, zerojay. :P06:04
zerojayWe have a few phones at work that have died because of that.06:04
GeneralAntillesK`zan, OS2008 actually makes that useful, too.06:04
K`zanThe light?06:04
GeneralAntillesFor e-mails, IMs, calls and such.06:05
Robot101these phones sound weak compared to the might of the nokia tablet hardware :)06:05
GeneralAntillesThat tablets are disturbingly strong.06:05
GeneralAntillesJust wish the backpanel on the N800 weren't so loose.06:06
K`zanCleaning up email, changed it to n800 and server and now can't change it back :-/.06:06
zerojayWe killed a Sony Ericsson within a week that way.06:06
GeneralAntillesemail is horrible on the ITs06:06
zerojayI still don't see what's so bad about it.06:07
K`zanAh, OK, got it now, have to open it to just delete from n80006:07
Robot101zerojay: see? sony ericsson. weak. :)06:07
zerojayRobot101: It's one of about 20 phones that have died because of people doing that at work.06:08
zerojayRobot101: Across all manufacturers.06:08
Robot101sounds like the phones crash too much too :D06:09
zerojayIf you want a great phone for that, get a SE W910i from Orange (French operator).06:10
zerojayThey were all recalled because some of them had a problem where exactly 10 seconds into any call, the phone would reboot.06:10
GeneralAntillesHow does that even get released?06:11
GeneralAntillesDo they do Q&A and just say, "Well . . . we'll fix it in the recall"06:11
zerojayI wonder that same thing each and every time some phone comes out with a stupid error.06:11
zerojayLike this one Samsung.06:11
K`zanOK, looks like the music stuff got found now.06:12
K`zanSo, if I USB stuff to the card I have to shutdown and pull the battery and card and restart?06:12
K`zanOr was this just a fluke?!?06:12
zerojayAll fillrect top and bottoms have 1 subtracted.06:13
zerojaySo if you make an unfilled rectangle one pixel thick all the way around, you just get two bars, not a rectangle.06:13
GeneralAntillesIt was probably just taking its time indexing06:14
zerojayK`zan: Shouldn't ever need to be done that way.06:14
K`zanOK, that makes me feel better :-)!  Thanks!06:14
GeneralAntillesYou really don't EVER need to take the battery out unless the device is hard crashed.06:14
GeneralAntillesWhich, even then, the hardware watchdog should take care of that.06:14
K`zanOther than that, everything seemed fine.06:14
K`zan80M of music might take a bit to index.06:15
captlloydSo what's everyone think (that's tried it) of OS2008 vs 2007?06:15
GeneralAntillesIt's exceptional.06:15
K`zanIs 2008 formally released or is it just a beta?06:15
GeneralAntillesIt's neither06:15
captlloydAFIK its just been leaked06:15
GeneralAntillesIt's sort of a leak.06:15
K`zanLooks formal, but I thought it was to be released only when the 810 came out.06:16
GeneralAntillesBut that's not really accurate, either.06:16
pupniktwo weeks...06:16
GeneralAntillesThe best way to describe it, would be that it's the firmware image for another device that's been mildly finessed to go onto the N800.06:16
K`zanPatience is a virtue, patience is a virtue, patience is a virtue...06:16
captlloydAnyone know anything about this thing where when its locked the keys stop working?06:17
GeneralAntillesJust install it. ;)06:17
captlloydI'll supposedly have my N810 Monday or Tuesday after next.06:17
captlloydI don't have anything to put it on yet06:17
GeneralAntillesThe version that's going to ship on the N810 can't possibly be the version that's on right now.06:18
GeneralAntillesInside sources have said as much.06:18
zerojayI also don't recommend n00bs install it.06:18
K`zanI heard that :)06:18
zerojayThey'll be far too disappointed by the lack of apps.06:18
K`zan19 and counting!06:19
captlloydDo you think that apps for 2007 will come over to 2008 pretty quickly?06:19
zerojayDepends on the developers.06:19
GeneralAntillesThey'll be coming in a deluge over the next 2 weeks.06:19
pupnikcaptlloyd: says who?  How are you getting it?06:19
GeneralAntillesmaemo mapper is all but officially ported.06:20
GeneralAntillesSo there's one off the list.06:20
captlloydYeah, mapper is one I really wanna use06:20
erich141fbreader is officially ported and works perfectly so far on os200806:21
K`zanHow does one change the category of an app?06:21
GeneralAntillesThe only stuff I'm really missing are the games.06:21
GeneralAntillescontrol panel06:21
ferhey there..06:24
captlloydI mostly wanna use mine for IRC, basic web surfing and IM.  It'll be so awesome to not have to set up with a laptop to do that.06:24
feranyone knows if videocenter is available for 2008os ?06:24
GeneralAntillesNot yet.06:24
zerojayYeah, I'm a little bummed about that.06:25
ferI instaled os2007_hacker_edition on my old 770...06:25
ferbut skype didn't work...06:25
GeneralAntillesI never really got into video center.06:26
ferIt installed fine... and starts.. but crashes a sec later...06:26
zerojay770 doesn't have the horsepower for Skype.06:26
Robot101it'd probably work fine, but the client tests your device ID to see if you have an N80006:28
Robot101it doesn't even work on prototype non-sales N800s06:28
zerojayLike I said, it doesn't have the power to run it anyways.06:29
ferok then..06:30
zerojayNot in real-time, anyways.06:30
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captlloydThe flash in the N810, the one sites list as 256MB, what is that used for? The OS image? Swap Space?06:31
ferhow about rtcomm?06:32
ferIt installed.. but had some error...06:32
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ferbut now I do get an option to create a sip account..06:33
zerojayrtcomm on the 770?06:33
zerojayWouldn't suggest it.06:33
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Robot101fabv: I'd be interested to hear if you have problems06:33
fershould work... as gtalk works..06:33
Robot101fabv: dang you tricked my tab-completion :)06:33
Robot101fer: ^^06:33
ferRobot101, :p06:36
pupnikzerojay: that's odd - compressing and playing back audio should not overtax the 77006:38
zerojaypupnik: It doesn't.06:39
zerojaypupnik: But doing both in real-time with proprietary codecs do.06:40
pupnikboo for skype coders then06:41
* pupnik tries to get xkbd working with fullscreen sdl apps06:42
GeneralAntillesAlright, zerojay, I'm setup on jablet. ;)06:44
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Cool. :)06:46
ferWTF !!!!06:46
K`zantnx checking06:46
ferthe browser on the 770 is faster than the one on the n800 !!06:46
zerojayK`zan: Jablet's a site I'm working on offering services to tablet users.06:46
Robot101zerojay: skype doesn't use proprietary codecs06:46
fertesting in a side by side comparison...06:46
fer770 has 2007 hacked edition... (opera)06:47
GeneralAntillesI call boloney. ;)06:47
zerojayRobot101: I want whatever you've been smoking.06:47
fern800 has 2008os...06:47
Robot101ok, let me rephrase, they don't use /software/ codecs so the fact they're proprietary is irrelevant06:47
Robot101yes they are proprietary06:47
Robot101but they're implemented on the DSP06:47
K`zanzerojay: RR, will check it out here soon, bookmarked06:47
Robot101and the 770's DSP is broadly similar in capability to the N800s06:47
Robot101and certainly has iLBC which skype can use06:47
zerojayK`zan: We're currently offering Jabber (with connections to all the major IM programs) for free which you can use with the built-in Jabber client. No need to download and install Pidgin.06:48
Robot101(but not G.729 which was new in the mid-year OS 2007 release)06:48
zerojayE-mail too.06:48
zerojayBut we've got big plans for all sorts of other services.06:48
zerojayAll free.06:48
Robot101but my gut feeling is that if it would run, skype would probably work on the 770, but maybe with decreased voice quality because it'd be more susceptible to scheduling blips06:49
Robot101the skype client on the N800 doesn't use that much CPU%, but when some bug was redrawing the whole screen of the UI the audio went totally to crap06:50
zerojayK`zan: In the future, we're looking into doing stuff such as hosting blogs, having a sort of "my online life" pulling stuff from various RSS feeds.. sort of like you can do with Jaiku.06:52
zerojayYour latest played tracks from Last.Fm, latest pictures added to Flickr, latest blog posts, etc...06:52
GeneralAntillesAnybody notice that Browse buttons have a tendency to nuke the GUI under OS2008?06:52
zerojayWhat browse buttons?06:52
Robot101maybe you could make a maemo UI for mugshot :)06:53
GeneralAntillesAvatar for Jabber, etc.06:53
GeneralAntillesBackground select06:53
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Never once had that problem.06:53
zerojayRobot101: Mugshot's a photo service, right?06:53
Robot101no, it's a meta-thingy like you describe06:54
GeneralAntillesUgh, there's number 306:54
Robot101a web service which lets you pull together blogs,, flickr, etc06:54
GeneralAntillescan't pick an avatar for Jablet06:54
zerojayDidn't know about it.06:54
Robot101and they have a windows/gnome client to give you notifications06:54
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Odd. Never had a problem with it.. and I just changed my background maybe 20 times today.06:54
Robot101and you can share links and jump into chat rooms about popular links06:54
Robot101its a bit odd, not sure why redhat spent as much engineer time on it as they did06:55
Robot101practicing or something06:55
elbword Robot10106:55
Robot101elb: word06:56
elbtelepathizing maemo?06:56
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Robot101elb: the in-built stuff is built on telepathy06:56
zerojayHeh.. right on the front page is the Maemo group on Mugshot.06:56
elbRobot101: nice06:57
Robot101elb: a significant part of my salary for the past 2 years has been from Nokia06:57
* elb awaits sales of his maemo device06:58
Robot101elb: getting and N810?06:58
infobotRobot101 meant: elb: getting an N810?06:58
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Sorry, not many people in the room right now. ;)06:59
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Robot101elb: they're very nice pieces of kit, the keyboard makes a big difference, and the size is now small enough to be pocketed without antoo much bother07:02
elband the battery life continues to creep up toward acceptable ;-)07:03
ferhas anyone here actually seen the display of the new n810?07:04
ferhow does it compare with the n800 or 770?07:04
fer(I have both 770 and n800 and find then slightly different...)07:04
fer(770 has a warmer sharper colours)07:05
fer(n800 has cooler (blue) colours... and not as sharp as the 770...)07:05
ferwhat do you think?07:05
GeneralAntillesN800's display is leaps and bounds better than the 770's07:06
ferGeneralAntilles, what do yo umea?07:06
GeneralAntillesExactly what I said.07:06
GeneralAntillesColors are better, clarity is better07:06
GeneralAntillesThe touchscreen is better.07:06
ferI find the 770 screen much sharper..07:06
GeneralAntillesProbably an illusion of the dithering from the touchscreen.07:07
feri do have the original screen protector on my n800, though...07:07
ferand the 770 doesn't have one at all..07:08
zerojayThat's not supposed to be there in use.07:08
zerojayThat's just something flimsy to protect the screen during shipping.07:08
Robot101original? as in, the piece of crap it ships with? take it off and marvel at what the screen's meant to look like07:08
Robot101that thing scratches and marks. the real screen doesn't07:08
GeneralAntillesI left mine on for 6 months.07:08
GeneralAntillesUntil I got 'round to buying a real one.07:09
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* fer logs off... 07:10
Robot101the screens don't scratch that easily anyway, I dunno what people are so scared of07:10
* captlloyd pokes fer07:10
elbI never put any sort of protector on my Palm07:10
ferRobAtWork, I'll tell you what... other people.. who want to "try" your tablet...07:11
elbI also didn't chew on my stylus or try to use an emory board for input07:11
elbmaybe these differ from common habits07:11
ferRobAtWork, and end up making a big scratch right on the middle of the screen !07:11
Robot101I don't hand my tablet to people who would do such a thing07:11
Robot101the stylus doesn't scratch the screen07:11
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Robot101I never put any protectors on anything, I just maintain a key / phone pocket exclusion :)07:12
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GeneralAntillesAmen to that, Robot101.07:12
GeneralAntillesElectronics on the right and keys and Leatherman on the left. ;)07:12
* elb attempts to come up with a sorting scheme for his pocket/belt/etc. junk and fails07:16
K`zanGoing to have to figure out someway to get my bookmarks from firefox in.  Something about them the n800 browser doesn't like :-(.07:16
elbmy equipment damage problems are more subtle than keys -> cell phone07:17
elbit's things like flashlight bezel in left front pocket -> cell pouch on belt07:17
elbor * -> {pants,shirt}07:18
K`zanIf I can get fbreader to pick up all my ebooks, the Zire31 goes in the trash...07:18
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GeneralAntillesDon't throw it out!07:18
elbisn't there a palm emulator?07:18
GeneralAntillesThere is.07:18
K`zanAha!  Make a web page out of my firefox bookmarks and use that to link out of.07:18
GeneralAntillesHi, _San_.07:19
K`zanThe digitizer on the Z31 is shit, was on the last one too.  Never stays in calibration long.07:19
_San_What is this place?07:20
GeneralAntilleszerojay, the transport for AIM is much nicer than the one from Actually supports away status and UTF usernames. :)07:20
captlloydthis is IRC _San_07:20
_San_Yea, but what are you guys talking about here?07:20
GeneralAntillesThis is the official room for the Nokia Internet Tablets (770, N800, N810)07:20
_San_Wtf is that?07:20
GeneralAntillesWell, more specifically, the maemo platform07:20
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captlloydBTW, is down?07:21
elbI love users like that07:21
K`zancaptlloyd: has been flakey since I started looking at it and it has been pretty much down all day today.07:22
GeneralAntillesIt's been incredibly flacky today, captlloyd.07:22
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Yep, that's part of the reason I chose the server I did and didn't want to go with someone else serving it for us.07:22
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Dunno if display pictures are working on the tablets... but I think a fix for those is coming soon.07:23
GeneralAntillesNo worries07:23
GeneralAntillesThe little OS2008 generic dude looks good. :)07:23
GeneralAntillesOS2008 is so lickable.07:26
zerojayIt's incredible.07:26
GeneralAntillesIt's all Apple-y goodness.07:26
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zerojay...uh.. no.07:27
GeneralAntillesThe new Jabber-client icons remind me very much of iChat. ;)07:27
K`zanAs soon as fbreader is ported, I'll upgrade :).07:27
GeneralAntillesIt's out.07:27
K`zanSigh, now I need to figure out how to do that :-).  Guess I can install the installer in a wincrap vm.07:28
K`zanFortunately I didn't do a lot to 2007 :).07:28
GeneralAntillesWhy windows?07:29
K`zanIn the 9 hours I have had it :)07:29
GeneralAntillesThe best installer is on Linux. ;)07:29
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K`zanThat is what all the n800 stuff is for :-( (/me HATES wincrap).07:29
GeneralAntilles(well, excluding Jaffa's excellent flasher)07:29
GeneralAntillesThe only thing you need desktop-side is the flasher07:29
GeneralAntilleswhich is available for Linux and OS X in a CLI form.07:30
K`zanYes, but I don't normall run wincrap07:30
K`zanAh, even BETTER!07:30
GeneralAntillesI was going to say. >_>07:30
K`zannokia N800 tablet updater linux07:30
K`zanflasher-3.0-static ?07:32
GeneralAntillesI'd just use flasher-3.007:33
GeneralAntillesbut somebody more knowledgeable may have some input.07:33
GeneralAntillesAnybody got a Chumby07:33
GeneralAntillesSeems like the most useless thing ever.07:33
zerojayI got it running on Jablet.07:34
zerojayWorking on allowing users to use their own channels.07:34
captlloydOh man, Chumby, why did I bother paying almost $500 for an N810, that would've done everything I need! ;)07:35
GeneralAntillesWell, the flickr album is a little more revealing.07:35
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K`zanThe update appears to me on maemo, if so I am not going to be able to get it now.07:38
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K`zan# Go to the N810 software download page.07:41
_Monkeyi think n810 is a mixed blessing. sure it got gps and keyboard. but it got one less memory slot...07:41
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K`zanI got an n800, will the 810 one work on the n800?07:42
elbyeah, and those cards are totally NOT removable07:42
K`zanI thought there was a special one for the n800?07:42
elbI thought they were, but so many people have been worrying about that that I assume they solder themselves in place on insertion07:42
GeneralAntillesNo, K`zan. It's just the N810 image.07:42
K`zanerr, yes, that is what I want, right?07:44
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K`zanOK downloading it, should I back up what is on the n800 just in case horrible things happen?07:45
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K`zanThere is a 2007 one out there someplace, just in case, right?07:46
GeneralAntillesBackup to save your settings, though.07:46
K`zanOK, pardon if I am a little nervious having had this for all of 9 hours now :)07:46
GeneralAntillesLike I said before, over 2 dozen flashes on 3 devices. ;)07:47
K`zanYes, but you are braver than I am ;-)!07:47
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K`zanGood md5!07:49
K`zanhere we go....07:49
GeneralAntillesMan, browsing through Virtual Console really brings back memories.07:50
zerojaySad that I've got more of those games on my PSP than Nintendo will put on VC.07:51
GeneralAntillesThe best part of VC are the 64 ports that actually work right.07:51
zerojayVibration is broken, I believe.07:52
GeneralAntillesDoesn't work on the computer, either.07:53
GeneralAntillesSo I'm not worried. ;)07:53
zerojayYes, it does.07:53
K`zan/home/vw/zdl/n800-2008} $ ./flasher-3.0 --enable-rd-mode07:53
K`zanflasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006)07:53
K`zanSuitable USB device not found, waiting07:53
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't work OVER HERE. :)07:53
GeneralAntillesHold home while powering up?07:53
zerojayDon't get Guitar Hero 3 for the Wii.07:53
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't buy Guitar Hero anything.07:54
zerojayNeversoft fucked up the build.07:54
K`zanerr, no, it was just on.  Killing and trying again...07:54
GeneralAntillesI have a real guitar and know how to play it. :D07:54
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Yeah, but that's nowhere near as fun.07:54
GeneralAntillesSee the South Park episode.07:54
penguinbaitI just bought a wii today07:54
penguinbaitChristmas present for the kids :)07:55
GeneralAntillesIt's a fun one. :)07:55
zerojayNeversoft screwed up their final of GH3... the game says it supports all sorts of Dolby and so on... but the build has mono sound forced.07:55
zerojayWii problem, only.07:55
GeneralAntillesDon't forget Twilight Princess, penguinbait.07:55
K`zanWhich one is the "home" key?07:55
zerojayThe one with the house?07:55
penguinbaitMy kids love zelda07:55
K`zanAh, says that is the swap key here07:56
zerojayI have yet to play a 3D version of Zelda that I've liked yet.07:56
penguinbaithas anyone played smash bros on wii07:56
K`zanOn the quick start guide...07:56
penguinbaitI love smash bros07:56
zerojaypenguinbait: Not out yet.07:56
penguinbaitit was at the store I was at today07:56
zerojaySmash is a great game, no doubt.07:56
GeneralAntillesIt's not out, penguinbait.07:56
GeneralAntillesNext year.07:56
penguinbaitI didnt buy it though07:56
zerojaypenguinbait: You probably saw the prerelease boxes.07:56
GeneralAntilleszerojay just hates Nintendo. :P07:57
GeneralAntillesTwilight Princess was epic07:57
K`zanDidn't work, seems to have come up normally...07:57
GeneralAntillesOcarina was orgasmic07:57
penguinbaitMario rules!!!!07:57
GeneralAntillesMajora's Mask was a little weird, but fun once you got used to it.07:57
zerojayGeneralAntilles: No, that's the problem.. I *love* Nintendo.. and that's why everything they've been doing recently has been just annoying me to no end.07:57
GeneralAntillesWindwaker was a little too weird07:57
GeneralAntillesbut I enjoyed it.07:57
GeneralAntillesOcarina has got to be one of the greatest games of all time.07:57
zerojayThe 3d Zelda games don't feel like Zelda to me.07:57
rhykininstalling this sdk w/o an internet connection is brutal07:57
zerojayThey just feel so generic.07:57
GeneralAntillesDunno, I grew up on 3d Zelda07:58
GeneralAntillesSo maybe my perceptions are a bit skewed.07:58
zerojayI grew up on the originals.07:58
penguinbaitI grew up on zelda NES07:58
K`zanNope, just comes up normally GeneralAntilles07:58
K`zanSame message...07:58
K`zanLemme try some other keys07:58
GeneralAntillesHolding down power button and Home key at the same time?07:59
zerojayThe 3d Zeldas, Mario Kart 64... pretty much around that time was when I started losing my faith in Nintendo.07:59
K`zanIf that is the same as the swap key, yes.07:59
GeneralAntillesMario Kart was another genius game.07:59
zerojayThe original, yes.07:59
GeneralAntillesIt's got a little house on it. ;)07:59
penguinbaitI love mario Kart07:59
K`zanThe very bottom one.07:59
penguinbaitAll of the rule07:59
GeneralAntilles64, I mean. ;)07:59
zerojayThe GBA versions were also very good.07:59
zerojayThe 64 version was probably the disappointment of my life.08:00
K`zanYep, hold that, push power and it just comes up and I get the "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" message08:00
penguinbaitall rule, I loved kart on snes when it came out08:00
GeneralAntillesI played HUNDREDS of hours of Mario Kart 6408:00
GeneralAntillesI STILL play it every once and a while.08:00
K`zanPush power and then hit the home key?08:00
GeneralAntillesNo, push them at the same time.08:00
penguinbaitthe ds is pretty sweet when playing with the kids08:00
zerojayDS version's alright. Double Dash having the problem where the character positions don't affect the handling of the cart killed it for me.08:00
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zerojayGeneralAntilles: I don't know how you could have played it that much. I found that game so dog slow and easy.08:01
K`zanAh, OK, I was pushing home and then power...08:01
zerojayI remember putting it on for the first time at work (when I was working at a game store) and thinking "oh my god.. it is blurred to all hell and runs at like 10 frames a second"08:01
GeneralAntillesthat, smash, and goldeneye08:02
zerojaySmash and Goldeneye were great.08:02
GeneralAntillesDunno, maybe I was just young.08:02
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zerojayGoldeneye doesn't hold up well these days though.08:02
GeneralAntillesHehe, no08:02
pupnik_new dosbox deb is up.  autostarts xkbd.08:02
GeneralAntillesbut it was the beginning of console FPS08:02
zerojayProximity mines were my favorite.08:02
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Could the charger being plugged in be hosing this?08:02
GeneralAntillesCould be08:02
zerojayK`zan: Yes.08:02
K`zanAh, unplugging and trying again, thanks much!08:03
zerojayK`zan: You are supposed to have a full battery and have your tablet unplugged from the power outlet.08:03
penguinbaitI was trying to get Windows 311 running on dosbox, it gets through install but dies on starting windows during setup08:03
penguinbaitI guess I had to much time on my hands08:03
K`zanWorked, next step...08:03
zerojayI still play the 64 version of Smash occasionally on my Xbox.08:03
GeneralAntillesIt's pretty good08:04
GeneralAntillesMelee is a little more nuanced.08:04
penguinbaitI play 64 smash on PC08:04
GeneralAntillesMy friends all destroy me in it though.08:04
GeneralAntillesThey compete in tournaments and such.08:04
zerojayYeah, people got really hardcore about that game which is funny because it's meant to be the complete opposite.08:05
penguinbaitMy kids are getting older, my 14 year old buy whips my butt in everything :(08:05
penguinbaitAh thats what I get for yelling in your face to a 4 year old08:06
zerojayI'm not doing that again after the last time.08:07
zerojayI was joking around, acting like a poor winner on purpose just to see what my 7 year old would do.08:07
zerojayHe straight punched me in the balls.08:07
K`zanWorked, thanks MUCH everyone!08:07
zerojayand at his height.. perfect alignment.08:07
K`zanNow I need a clever device name other than Nokia N800 :)08:07
zerojayI called mine crack whore one day.08:08
K`zanSomething I assume you can change?08:08
zerojayAnd since BT is so extensively used at work, everyone was asking "who the fuck is crack whore?"08:08
penguinbaitmine is sneaky08:08
penguinbaitmy firewall is sleepy08:08
penguinbaitit up all the time :)08:09
K`zanWitch3 :-) as I don't know witch1 it is :)08:09
GeneralAntillesHahaha, zerojay.08:09
zerojayBT on the N800 is fun.08:09
zerojayI was in Montreal at an open wireless hotspot in a mall.08:09
zerojayLots of people around with laptops, obviously.08:09
zerojaySomeone was sending out mp3s.08:09
zerojaySo I took one mp3 I had and renamed it 1.mp3 and sent it out to everyone.08:10
K`zanThis phone selection I can do anytime, right.  I doubt I will ever use it...08:10
zerojayOne by one, just about every computer had The Price Is Right theme blaring.08:10
zerojayEveryone was looking around confused.08:10
zerojayIt was awesome.08:10
pupnik_penguinbait: that may be when it switches to protected mode - you may have to switch cpu from 'simple' to full08:12
K`zanSuccess!  Thanks GeneralAntilles and zerojay !08:12
GeneralAntillesSure thing, K`zan.08:14
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K`zanGeneralAntilles: Sigh, where did I find the stuff to enter a static IP again?08:19
K`zanControl Panel->connectivity isn't it...08:20
K`zanFound it..08:21
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GeneralAntillesIn the "Start" menu08:25
GeneralAntillesConnection Manager08:25
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K`zanNow to find fbreader :008:46
GeneralAntillesmaemo 4.x08:47
K`zanThankee Sir!08:48
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Is there a point to adding all those repositories?  Would seem so at this point?!?08:55
GeneralAntillesYou might as well.08:55
K`zanOk, wilco, thanks!08:55
GeneralAntillesOr just exclude the ones with software you don't want.08:55
K`zanNo idea at this point, better to have them and not need them ... :-)08:56
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K`zanHummm, browser went toast.08:58
K`zanremind me to set a bookmark before going to play :-)08:59
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K`zanNo xchat yet and no camera, but I suspect those won't be long in coming :).09:06
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Again, really appreciate all your help with this!09:06
GeneralAntillesIt's really a selfish act. ;)09:07
GeneralAntillesMore happy maemo users means a larger userbase means more developers means more applications for me. :P09:07
K`zanUnderstand, get 'em addicted and all sorts of good stuff can happen :)09:07
K`zanWell, this does solve one problem :-)!09:07
pupnikzerojay: how did sending 1.mp3 make it play on other computers?09:07
K`zanI don't have to thrash on which development system to install, safe to say it can now be 2008 :-).09:08
K`zanLets see if FBreader can get my library right twice in 2008 :).09:08
pupniki want to write a native robotron clone sometime09:08
pupnikbut it's all so pointless without decent dpads09:09
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K`zanI want glom for it now :).09:09
pupnikwhat is glom?09:10
K`zanmatch the tile kind of game, had it on my palms for ages now :).09:10
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K`zanukmp better than media player?09:11
K`zanMore like gather all the same kind of tiles together for max points.09:11
K`zantogether than you can...09:11
zoranK`zan, palm game?09:13
K`zanboingomobile something that is important?09:13
K`zanzoran: yes.09:13
zoranthere is beta of some palm vm emulator09:13
K`zanProbably something similar out there someplace.  Just an OLD habit :-)09:14
GeneralAntillesYou don't need boingo09:14
K`zanToo much hassle to drag the laptop with me to see what is out there that is open wireless, nothing right around here, so I have no idea what I need...09:14
GeneralAntillesIt's a pay wifi hotspot thing.09:14
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Thanks!09:14
K`zanAh, we avoid those if possible :).09:15
K`zanOk, enough packing the device for the night :), time to play some :-).09:15
GeneralAntillesIf remember getting stuck in the Atlanta airport for 8 hours09:15
GeneralAntillespaid $6 for 24-hour wifi access09:15
K`zanYeah, that airport sucks...09:15
K`zanLived there for a long time.09:16
GeneralAntillesBittorrent ran at, like, 1MB down and 1MB up09:16
GeneralAntillesit was ridiculous09:16
K`zanFunny story on the airport, if you are interested?09:16
K`zanYeah, anything to do with fartsfield is gonna be a fiasco...09:16
K`zanWhen they built the airport they were HOT for minority "art"...09:16
K`zanSome of the construction people got offended...09:17
K`zanThey put up some construction trash on the wall and told the airport management that they did it, but not where....09:17
K`zanLast I heard, they still haven't found it :-).09:17
GeneralAntillesThat's beautiful.09:18
K`zanI particularly liked the $150K artist drop cloth on the wall of the federal building down there...09:18
GeneralAntillesIt's amazing what stupid people in high places will pay.09:18
K`zanYep, IMNSHO if the gov has to support art, it isn't...09:18
K`zanYep, PC/SC is a virtulent disease...09:19
pupnikgovt spending our money is the disease imo09:19
GeneralAntillesNo kidding.09:19
K`zanYep, agree 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% :-)09:19
GeneralAntillesI've got 11 hours of video on my SD cards now09:20
pupniki mean if a private company does it, i can choose not to use their product09:20
GeneralAntillesHopefully that'll be enough to get me to California on Sunday.09:20
K`zanYep, real art supports itself.09:20
GeneralAntilles(connecting through Atlanta :()09:20
K`zanMy sympathy...09:20
K`zanThat place is a shithole only second to scabattle...09:20
GeneralAntillesWorst part is09:21
GeneralAntillesI normally fly out of Tampa09:21
GeneralAntillesWhich is, like, the greatest airport on the planet09:21
K`zanStill, wow...09:21
GeneralAntillesand going from there to Atlanta is just unbearable.09:21
K`zanAtlanta has delusions of grandur...09:21
GeneralAntillesFly of of Tallahassee regional this weekend09:23
GeneralAntillesWe'll see how it goes.09:23
GeneralAntillesNever been in so small an airport09:23
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K`zanI used to fly for a living and it got real old after about 5 years.09:25
K`zanCome home on weekend (maybe) wash clothes, be at airport at 0500 monday morning...09:25
K`zanWas a lot of fun for a while though.09:25
GeneralAntillesWith what carrier?09:26
K`zanRiding the bus...09:26
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K`zanOhm I was flying all over for a living, not a RL pilot, I only do that on PCs :)09:26
K`zanOh, I was flying all over for a living, not a RL pilot, I only do that on PCs :)09:26
GeneralAntillesRight, right. >_>09:27
K`zanNext week I learn to type.09:27
K`zanI wouldn't even fly for my own travel anymore.09:27
GeneralAntillesI only fly about once every two years.09:27
K`zanCool, blue light flashes when it goes into standby now :).09:27
GeneralAntillesYou'll get tired of that very quickly09:28
GeneralAntillesespecially at night.09:28
GeneralAntillesYou install openssh yet?09:28
K`zanSomewhere around the 1980s, I finally figured out security was a joke and quit doing that to myself.09:28
K`zanNot yet, but probably will - seems a lot of work until I get a BT keyboard though.09:28
GeneralAntillesThe idea is to ssh into the device from a real machine.09:29
K`zanI use that a lot.09:29
K`zanAh, that makes more sense - server AND client...09:29
K`zanInstalling now :-).09:29
GeneralAntillesThere's a fun little trick in /etc/mce/mce.ini09:29
K`zanClient installing now.09:30
GeneralAntillessoft poweroff09:31
_Monkeyserver is temporarily unable to service my request. Please try again later.09:31
GeneralAntillesDid you enable the extras repo?09:31
GeneralAntillesIt comes disabled.09:31
GeneralAntillesThere's a little check box in its edit dialog.09:32
K`zanDunno, lemme look09:32
GeneralAntillesThere should be a meta package for both server and client.09:32
K`zanserver seems hung...09:32
K`zanthere it goes, done.09:32
GeneralAntillesTakes forever to generate keys.09:33
K`zanIt was disabled.09:33
K`zanFixed it, thanks!09:33
K`zan234 people on this channel is impressive considering the time these have been out.09:33
GeneralAntillesIf you consider the audience.09:34
zorandon't forget bouncers09:34
GeneralAntillesThe 770 was specifically targeted at hardcore Linux users.09:34
pupnikbullseye imo09:34
K`zanI'm an installing fool! :-)09:34
GeneralAntillesNo kidding.09:35
GeneralAntillesI don't even remember where I first saw the 77009:35
GeneralAntillesbut I preordered day 109:35
K`zanHummm, openssh listed again now, I presume I don't want to do that...09:36
K`zanIf it were not for the RS-MMC cards, I would have probably had a 770 rather than the 800.09:36
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GeneralAntillesThe N800 is SO much better than the 770.09:37
K`zanYes, except for physical considerations, 770 seemed MUCH more robust physically.09:37
GeneralAntillesThe case is a big plus09:38
pupniki can understand them dropping the case for aesthetics, but it's so darn practical09:38
GeneralAntillesBut overall build strength is about the same.09:38
GeneralAntillesThe N800 is quite solid.09:38
K`zanargh, which repos has all that gcompris stuff in it?09:39
K`zanMore than I expected, once I get a decent case for it, I'll probably feel a lot better.09:39
_MonkeyExtras is (distribution: "bora" for n800, "gregale" for n770) (components="free non-free")09:40
GeneralAntillesand you definitely want that.09:40
K`zanGames for kids?09:41
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K`zanOK, if you say so :).09:41
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K`zanAt the rate I am going I am starting to wonder if that 128 meg is going to cut it for long.  Would be nice to be able to use some of the SD cards for apps...09:42
K`zankagu better than media player?09:42
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pupnikthe popular players are kagu, ukmp and canola09:43
K`zanAre any of them significantly better than media player?09:44
GeneralAntillesYes and no.09:44
* K`zan already getting paranoid about space...09:44
pupnikduno i'm waiting for something lite like xmms/winamp09:44
GeneralAntillesNah, internal space wont be an issue.09:44
zoranwhat space?09:44
_Monkeyhmmm... space is relative09:44
GeneralAntillesSeriously, I've never managed to file up the internal with apps09:44
GeneralAntillesand I install a lot of apps.09:44
K`zanonly 128m for apps, right?09:44
GeneralAntillesDelete the manuals, though.09:44
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GeneralAntillesThose take up a ton of space.09:44
K`zanOr move them to the SD cards where I am WALLOWING :-)09:45
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zoranor make links from internal memory to the card09:45
K`zanOhh, yes!  One can do that with this, yummie :)!09:46
K`zanLove that terminal :-)!!09:47
K`zanfbreader will not pick up my library on /media/mmc1/ebooks/ :-(09:49
K`zanMaybe indexing, would be nice to have a spinner to let one know it is doing something though.09:50
GeneralAntillesFBReader never picked up my library very well automatically09:51
GeneralAntillesJust add 'em by hand09:51
GeneralAntillesYou'll want to change the attributes, anyway.09:51
K`zanAh, yes, might be permissions problems... checking09:51
K`zanHummm, what is the root password...09:55
_Monkeyhmmm... rootme is the default pw?09:55
GeneralAntilleschange it asap09:55
_MonkeyGeneralAntilles: that doesn't look right09:55
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K`zanHummm, not letting me su09:56
K`zanHow the hell do you change it if you can't su09:57
K`zanNot feeling so good about installing ssh at the moment :)09:57
GeneralAntillessudo gainroot09:57
K`zanThanks !  Done.09:59
K`zanWonder if I need to set up a user for myself or just stay user:users10:00
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GeneralAntillesKeep it the normal user10:03
GeneralAntillesanything else will break shit.10:03
K`zanOK, wilco.10:04
K`zanRoot can't change uid:gid on the SD cards, WTF?!?10:04
K`zanchown mmc1 Operation not permitted10:05
K`zanYep, I'm root.10:05
GeneralAntillesMaybe corrupted.10:05
K`zanHummm, formatted them under 2007 and then USB mounted them to the desktop and loaded them up...10:06
K`zan2007 format NG with 2008?!?10:06
K`zanls works right...10:06
GeneralAntillesRemovable media is finicky10:06
GeneralAntillesEven if the transfer is "done" it's not actually done.10:06
GeneralAntillesDunno, though.10:07
GeneralAntillesGenerally speaking, you shouldn't need to mess with  permissions on the removable stuff, anyway.10:07
GeneralAntillesOr, maybe, you accidentally turned on the read only tab10:07
K`zanls -lR looks OK, but yes.  I thought I did a "safely remove" though.10:07
GeneralAntillesHard to say.10:07
solmumahayou would need to change mount options10:09
JaffaMorning, all10:11
K`zanNope, OK.10:11
K`zanAnyway, I'm beat, gonna go fall over.  Thanks for all the help, MUCH appreciated!10:11
K`zanNight all, rest well!10:12
K`zanZzzzzzzzzzzzzz :-)10:12
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JaffaGah, Garage is - once again - fscked: - just hangs.10:19
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kulve" is too fragile."10:25
kulveI made generic bug about that. Some part is always broken and it starts to annoy me..10:25
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raflhooray.. zsh for maemo 4.0 :-)10:29
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_Monkeyhmmm... game is being done in javascript, if I don't have a pixel buffer to prepare svg graphics at the beginning of a level instead of when it comes on screen, I'll have to substitute with prerendered png sprite sheets.11:53
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JaffaAnyone tried Frothing and compared it to osso-rss-reader (which is also based on Liferea):
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_Monkeyque tal, keesj13:24
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DRoBeRHola, _Monkey .14:03
_Monkeyhey, DRoBeR14:03
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DRoBeRCómo va la cosa? :)14:03
DRoBeRHallo, florian .14:03
florianhi all14:04
DRoBeRIs it frequently to loss the language translation in OS2007? Sometimes I got the problem that my N800 shows me just the "variable_name" instead of its translation to Spanish :)14:05
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florianDRoBeR: I use German translation on one device, but I haven't seen this effect so far.14:06
florianBut in the SDK that happened some times...14:07
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milhousestill no
czrhmm. has someone made a small panel applet to sync the time on an IT using ntpdate or similar?14:49
czror statusbar applet would do as well. or at least something.14:49
DRoBeRDanke schön, florian .14:50
DRoBeRHow do you correct it?14:50
alteregoczr, would a daemon not do it?14:50
czralterego, sentence does not compute. what do you mean? (and hello too :-)14:51
alteregoWould a daemon started by a boot script not do the job for you?14:51
alteregoHello :)14:51
kulvedaemon that checks if the network is available and too long has passed since the previous update, then run ntpdate. Or something.14:51
alteregoI think ideally it would be configurable through the control panel too ..14:52
kulvealterego: usually the network is not yet during the bootup, I think14:52
czralterego, well, something like that. but I'd rather just have it do the sync when necessary14:52
alteregokulve, it's a daemon, that doesn't matter.14:52
czrnot causing network traffic by itself14:52
czrcould also have a list of servers to use so that one could select one based on the location14:53
czrsince public ntp servers are sometimes undesireable, and so on.14:53
alteregoWell, if you're clever about it you can get it to only sync when asked to when connected through a phone.14:53
alteregoWhere as it'd have free roam on WiFi14:53
czrI don't want a free roam on wifi14:53
kulvemilhouse: if you don't like the stability of the, vote in bug #2308.14:53
_MonkeyBug 2308 might be found at
milhousethanks kulve14:54
alteregoRight, that's lunch out-of-the-way.14:54
alteregoTime to get done and dirty.14:54
alteregoczr, if I manage to get ruby desktop plugins working I'll write one for you ;)14:55
milhousewhen did go down (roughly)?14:55
czralterego, heh. ok14:56
alteregoMaybe I'm compiling my loader wrong. But hildon desktop doesn't see my plugin loader :(14:57
kulvemilhouse: hmm.. I was working for me a second ago, but now it's again gone..14:57
kulvebugzilla seems to respond14:57
kulve"It was working.."14:58
milhouselooking back through the chats it seems to have disappeared about 9pm uk time last night14:59
alteregoczr, did you read my post in response to that python extension problem? I didn't realise how tired I was O_O14:59
milhousekulve - what ip do you have for my dns returns which is unpingable14:59
czralterego, not recently. when did you send it? :-)15:00
alteregoThat night you forwarded it to me.15:00
kulvemilhouse: same here. The bugzilla has .75 and it doesn't respond to ping either, even though it responds to http15:01
milhouseyeah good point pings could be ignored15:02
milhousebut not getting any http response to here15:02
milhousebugzilla is fine15:02
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milhousei missed it15:06
alteregoIt broke when I was using it in the bath.15:06
alteregoMaybe I got my N800 wet!!15:06
kaltsiare you hosting on it?15:06
alteregoNot as far as I know15:07
kaltsikeep it away from the bath just to be sure, ok?15:07
alteregoI was hoping the N810 would be available yesterday :(15:07
* DRoBeR is away: out of order15:08
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* alterego dispairs.15:18
* Jaffa was hoping for an N810 and a letter telling him about his promotion/payrise.15:19
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alteregoThat's not my problem15:20
alteregoI still can't get my ruby desktop plugin code to work.15:20
alteregohildon-desktop doesn't seem to find my plugin loader :(15:20
GeneralAntillesTry harder/better, then. ;)15:20
alteregoI'm sifting through the hildon-desktop plugin source as we speak O_O15:21
alteregoI've just found the code that displays the "Unknown Plugin Loader type: %s" message.15:21
alteregoIf anyone happens to know the location of the code that actually _loads_ the plugin loaders ..15:22
alteregoNice, found it :)15:23
czralterego, you should always look for the single source file that looks to be least related to the thing.15:23
Jaffaalterego: it'd put me in a good mood and so I'd finish off the next version of tablet-encode with shiny new features (such as video bitrate efficiency, audio track copying, multiple file support, ...)15:23
milhouseanyone got bootmenu installed on an device running os2008?15:23
milhousei'm trying to narrow down why my device keeps losing it's buttons all the time... maybe it's bootmenu (which i have installed)?15:24
* czr gives some glue to milhouse 15:24
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sp3000maybe you got an apostrophe stuck under the keypad15:27
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czrweekend irc is the bestest15:28
alteregoThat's not good.15:28
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alteregoHmmm ..15:50
alteregoThis code should work ..15:50
* alterego cries ..15:50
czrhave you found anyone to blame yet?15:50
alteregoLucos Rocha for not properly documenting the system :P15:51
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alteregoOr Karoliina for not making him document it properly.15:51
* czr could go couple of steps higher too :-)15:52
czrbut yeah, you can start with them :-)15:52
alteregoI think I'll write a little program that attempts to load it and see what happens.15:52
alteregoI could just rewrite the plugin loader factory ;)15:54
konttori_What's up with site?15:55
czrkonttori_, it's broken15:55
konttori_Is anybody working on it?15:55
* czr shrugs15:55
alteregoProbably not.15:55
alteregoIt's Saturday.15:55
czrsomeone else complained about it here just some time ago15:55
konttori_Hey, this is sad.15:55
GeneralAntillesalterego dropped the server in the bath tube.15:55
konttori_Nokia hosting people should be working 24/715:55
czrkonttori_, alterego is already crying15:55
czrkonttori_, it's not hosted by nokia15:55
konttori_yeah, so even the more reason that they shoulod be working on it 24/715:56
czrmaybe N gets what it pays for.15:56
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* czr shrugs15:56
kulvekonttori_: #2308, please vote, if you don't like the current situation..15:57
konttori_I mean, if they are a hosting company, they usually actually have contracts that define how long the downtime can be at worst15:57
kulvebug #230815:57
_MonkeyBug 2308 might be found at
alteregoIs the server down or just http?15:57
czrkonttori_, why do you assume it's a hosting company?15:57
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konttori_Well, as any sane company outsources hosting to a company who has a hosting center15:58
kulvedescr:          CiderCone Oy15:58
czrkonttori_, sane? :-)15:58
konttori_hosting centers can then have even higher security and have the means to track and update all of the servers 24/7. Because they have so many servers there, then it's ok to keep people htere 24/715:59
czrhey, it's free software, hosting services for it is bound to be free as well ;-)15:59
konttori_yeah. let's torrent the server ;)15:59
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czrkonttori_, I doubt anyone really questions your points. and yes, 24/7 support does exist. but you have to pay money to get service :-)16:00
* czr thinks that prisons should start running hosting services. they keep people there 24/7 anyway.16:00
konttori_Well, the last company that I worked in hosted their servers in a bank hosting facility and it was still only hundreds of euros a month per server.16:01
* alterego wonders why people use if(module != NULL) instead of if(module) ..16:01
czrkonttori_, and? :-)16:01
czralterego, because it's more clear.16:01
czralterego, one doesn't have to think what module is16:02
alteregoHmm ..16:02
czrwith NULL it's evident that it is a pointer.16:02
alteregoSo you think I should adopt that style?16:02
czralterego, you don't work for me, I don't read your code. I don't know :-)16:02
czrjust gave you rationale why someone might use that style :-)16:02
alteregoHmm, if I did work for you what would you say?16:03
czryes, you should adopt it.16:03
alterego"You're fired!" ^_^16:03
czrand you should stop bugging me during weekends with work-related stuff!16:03
* czr misread one google advert as "longest range linux wifi: 500 MW USB wireless adapter"16:04
czrthat would be something indeed.16:04
czrand surely it would be longest range too16:04
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cofeinesunshinedoes woks?16:06
cofeinesunshinei get an error;/16:06
Paavo_the protocol might have problems with latency though, communicating to mars16:06
cofeinesunshineUnable to forward this request at this time.16:06
kulvebug #230816:07
_MonkeyBug 2308 might be found at
czrcofeinesunshine, remember to vote the bug to be fixed :-)16:07
kulvethat bug is meant to tell the nokia that it has always been too often broken. Not to fix some specific issue relating to this current issue16:11
kulvethat's why it probably needs quite a lot of votes to be noticed16:11
alteregoDoes it have many votes?16:12
GeneralAntillesWho wants to go door-to-door with me? :P16:13
alteregoYou can post on ITT, maemo-users maemo-developers16:13
alteregoblog on planet :)16:13
alteregoThat'll get people voting :)16:13
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kaltsino one can read the planet while the site is down.. :)16:14
alteregoObviously, but the site doesn't have to be down to vote for the site being a fragile POS :)16:14
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alteregoThe bug says weekly. Shall I file another bug for the daily breakages?16:14
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alteregoI find gpointer quite confusing ..16:21
czralterego, why?16:21
alteregoI don't understand why they don't just say (void *)16:21
alteregoless characters ..16:21
czrfor completeness16:21
czrI don't think Meh is compatible with (void *)16:22
czrmaybe gconstchar ;-)16:22
alteregoit is if I define it as void* :P16:22
JaffaNot having access to my garage-based website is really irritating when I'm trying to finish off a mediautils release.16:23
czrnot having access to the howtos is a problem for me when doing the material update. bleh16:23
kaltsialterego is the gpointer a typedef for (void *) ?16:24
czris there a mirror of the howtos (4.0) somewhere?16:24
derfBut what if it's supposed to be be "void __far *"? You never know when you might want to do that 16-bit Win3.11 port.16:24
alteregoLuckily I checked out the source for the modules I'm working with in the maemo svn :)16:24
alteregokaltsi, yes.16:24
czrderf, you'd know when you'd want to, I guarantee that ;-)16:24
derfYes, I do.16:24
czrbtw, anyone aware of a 16-bit free c compiler?16:25
czrone that works and supports more or less modern C?16:25
kaltsiit makes sense to typedef all the library's types so that if one day for whatever reasons (portability for example) you need to redefine the type then all the code using would just have to be recompiled and not recoded..16:25
czr(for x86)16:25
GeneralAntillesgoogle cache, czr?16:25
czrGeneralAntilles, ah, good hint. will try16:25
alteregoRedefining void* .. Interesting.16:26
kaltsino, redefining gpointer16:26
alteregotypedef char* gpointer?16:26
kaltsiye :)16:26
alteregoI don't see that happening somehow.16:26
czralterego, more likely than your Meh though :-)16:26
alteregoYes, probably.16:27
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alteregoWe'll see what glib3 looks like ;)16:27
kaltsipreparing for the unknown .. who knows16:27
Jaffaczr: I'd start looking at lcc or tcc as a starting point.16:27
czrargh. google cache doesn't find the file. not even sure it exists though (3.x does)16:27
czrJaffa, tcc is 32-bit16:27
czrlcc also seems to be 32-bit only16:28
GeneralAntillesMaybe coral cache, too, czr.16:28
Jaffaczr: doh16:28
alteregoOn a related note. I'm happy to use gpointer .. But I've seen a lot of hildon code use (void*) casts etc instead of gpointer ..16:28
derfYou can still download Turbo C++ 1.01.16:29
czrthere was something that bruce perens wrote ages ago, but it's kind of klunky.16:29
czrdon't recall the name.16:29
czrderf, heh. but it's not free :-)16:29
alteregoI'm staring at a line now that really should be (gpointer) and not (void*) as the method it's calling defines the parameter as a gpointer ..16:29
derfczr: It's free as in beer.16:29
alteregoSo portability out-the-window :P16:29
czrderf, which isn't free enough for me.16:29
derfWell, write your own, then.16:29
kaltsialterego: that's a bug then if one wants to be anal16:30
czrI'm not complaining damn it. just wanted some hints whether anyone knew of one.16:30
derfI don't even think there was one in the 90's when people still used DOS.16:30
* czr nods16:31
derfDJGPP was the first free compiler I remember hearing about for DOS, and it was for 32-bit protected mode.16:31
czrwell, the compiler doesn't have to be for dos really. 16-bit x86.16:32
czr(for doing stuff that runs on top of the legacy bios cruft)16:32
derfThere aren't that many 16-bit DOS operating systems.16:32
derfErr, 16-bit x86 OSes.16:32
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czrhmm. coral pulls nothing with maemo.org16:32
GeneralAntillesLooks like you need to get yourself a time machine.16:34
GeneralAntillesCould you pull a copy of OS2009 while you're out?16:34
czrit was using windows. you really want it?16:34
* GeneralAntilles kills himself.16:34
czrhmm. what is the correct form of "be" when referring to past that happens in the future? (as in the time-machine problem)16:35
alteregowill be?16:36
alteregowill have been ..16:36
czralterego, no, that normal future16:36
czrhmm. bwas sounds klunky.16:37
derfConsult your Douglas Adams.16:37
czrah, good hint.16:37
micky_Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so16:38
czrtime might be, deadlines are not :-)16:39
czrbleh. I found the doc in google cache. but it doesn't want to open it at all.16:41
czrah. firefox to the rescue.16:42
micky_deadlines suck16:42
kaltsithe newest thingies in webarchive are from august 07 so that's no good either16:43
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GeneralAntillesAnybody got Quim's homephone? :P16:45
czrhmm. is the symlink necessary with 4.0 for the others-menu?16:45
GeneralAntilles"HAI QUIM, ur websitez down!"16:45
czr(via the debian package package.links file)16:46
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czrhmm. actually I think I've already asked this question before16:48
czrand the consensus was that "no" and "howtos suck"16:48
JaffaAny 770-encode users who want to test the latest version with muchos new features: (since garage is down)16:50
GeneralAntilles--list is nice16:53
GeneralAntillesAlthough I already wrote up a bash script to deal with that. :)16:53
JaffaI think I prefer the cp style "file1 file2 fil3 dir" semantics (inspired by --list ;-))16:54
JaffaThe bitrate limiting is cool so you don't waste bytes transcoding artifacts from existing files.16:56
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fysaugh.  maybe OS2007 was like this too, but thumb scrolling the web browser on a huge page is painfully slow -- not just because of the time it would take without kinetic, but there is a delay between when your thumb hits the screen and when scrolling is 'activated' that is the same amount of time it takes for your thumb to go from the bottom to top of the screen.  effectively, your thumb feels like it's running on a treadmill.17:08
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* konttori_ voted for tuomas's bug 230817:10
_MonkeyBug 2308 might be found at
GeneralAntillesJaffa, tablet-encode is dying with "Failed to get movie info." for me now. :(17:12
konttori_czr: ahh.. my point was back in an hour ago that if Nokia doesn't use proper professional hosting service now, Nokia should consider stating to use such for
czrkonttori_, I agree with you 100%.17:13
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czrtoo bad I don't work for nokia nor have a magical button that says "all problems go away" :-)17:14
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kaltsiI have that button, but it's out of batteries17:15
konttori_I hope Quim will be able to address the issue in the future.17:16
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konttori_fysa: at least on opera you were able to configure the dpad to go page up / page down on one click.17:18
konttori_in os2008 you cannot make such a binding17:18
konttori_otoh: n810 has the space key which works as page down.17:18
GeneralAntillesWhich is stupid.17:19
GeneralAntillesIt's such a braindead feature to add.17:19
konttori_yeah. I think we should press for such a feature.17:20
czrspacebar is not stupid! it's the only place where I can get beer while travelling between planets..17:20
GeneralAntillesI seem to recall the bug being shot down rather harshly.17:20
GeneralAntillesSomething about it not being MicroB responsibility.17:20
GeneralAntillesI don't recall exactly.17:20
GeneralAntillesOnly that I really didn't buy it when I read it.17:20
konttori_Hmm... maybe we should discuss the issue with specifications instead.17:20
konttori_as in the specifications team17:21
konttori_do we have open bugzilla for specifications?17:21
GeneralAntillesI say we all fly out to Nokia HQ and start bashing heads.17:21
czrGeneralAntilles, is flying really necessary?17:23
GeneralAntillesFor me, yes.17:23
GeneralAntillesUnless you expect me to swim. ;)17:23
czrah. so optional for others :-)17:23
czryou can always walk on the sea floor :-)17:23
GeneralAntilles*we all plane-it, train-it, or automobile-it to Nokia HQ17:24
czrheh. it's a good movie17:24
czr"where's your hand?" "between pillows" "those are not pillows" (or something to that effect, can't really recall)17:24
alteregoWell, my test loader can't even open my module.17:25
alteregoSo I think I'm compiling it wrong :(17:25
konttori_I wasn't able to find the dpad reconfiguration bug. GeneralAntilles , do you happen to remember the id?17:26
GeneralAntillesThanks, useless bot!17:26
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GeneralAntillestimeless commented on it17:26
GeneralAntillesIf only it had done him in.17:27
czrmaybe it's still busy calculatnig17:27
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alteregoWell, it does do division ..17:28
GeneralAntillesoff by 11. :(17:28
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alteregoCould be worse.17:35
alteregoYou could be off by 1217:35
alteregoor 1317:35
konttori_Thanks generalantilles17:36
konttori_I just tried to vote for the bug, but vote count didn't go up.17:36
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p| RIP :-\17:36
GeneralAntillesA moment of silence, please.17:36
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konttori_ahh.. my prob17:36
kaltsiwhen voting do I need to put down any text? :)17:37
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czrhmm. is autotools-dev really needed as a build-depends?17:39
konttori_you don't need to put any text17:39
konttori_You just need to click on the vote and then on the next screen add checkbox for the bug you want to vote.17:39
kaltsiok, I'll vote for that bug then17:39
alteregoczr, it is in the debian world for some reason. I would have thought "build-essentials" was a givin in package building ^_^17:40
czrwell, I got debhelper (>= 5.0), autotools-dev17:40
czrand wondering about the autotools-dev. seems slightly illogical17:41
czryes, the software uses autotools. but autotools-dev? :-)17:41
alterego((gpointer*)&say_hello) - That looks odd ..17:44
czrwhy gpointer*?17:45
czrgpointer != void.17:45
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czralso, if say_hello is a function, then & is not required/wanted really.17:45
alteregoWell, that lines says cast a pointer to a function pointer to a pointer to a void pointer :/17:45
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alteregoIt's in a glib example on the gnome website.17:46
czrbut why would you want one?17:46
alteregoI don't know.17:46
czrone'd think (gpointer)say_hello is sufficient17:46
czrif a (void*) is the end-result that is expected, or gpointer for that matter.17:46
alteregoWhich is what I'm using in _my_ code ..17:47
alteregoAnd it works ..17:47
* czr shrugs17:47
alteregoI think the example is broken .. It's not even a complete example so I don't actually know what it's doing :/17:48
czryup. most example code unfortunately is like that17:48
* czr hates that17:48
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alteregoYeah, examples should be _working_ examples. Not a few lines of code that don't work. (Which means they're probably not even tested to work)17:50
czr"dh_shlibdeps: Compatibility levels before 4 are deprecated."17:50
czrwhat gives?17:50
alterego4 is fine.17:51
czrno I mean what's wrong17:51
czrI bootstrapped the process with dh_make17:51
kaltsido you have a debian/compat file?17:51
czrnot anymore :-)17:51
czrI removed all the extra cruft.17:51
alteregocompat isn't cruft ;)17:51
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alteregoIt's required ..17:51
kaltsitry adding it with '4' in it.. echo 4 > debian/compat17:51
czrevidently not. it wasn't required in 3.217:51
alteregoNo one uses 3.2 anymore :P17:52
kaltsiit's not exactly required but it's good to be there17:52
czrwell. no one told me :-)17:52
kaltsiwithout it the packaging system somehow chooses a compat level17:52
czrand this material has gone through "review" a zillion of times.17:52
* czr acks17:52
alteregoGrrr ..17:54
alteregoI must be compiling my loader wrong.17:54
alteregoBut I don't know how I should be compiling it because no one tells me!17:54
kaltsihmm I would have thought the debian policy would say something about that compat17:55
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czrdebian policy says a lot of things17:55
czra lot of which have zero effect in maemo17:55
kaltsiI guess it's not really required then.. cool17:58
czrit is in 4.0 at least17:58
czror rather, I got a lot of whining from all the dh-helper tools if it was missing in 4.017:58
czrin 3.2 it was ok to just drop it17:58
alteregoI should just turn my phone off on Satudays.17:58
* alterego turns his phone off.17:59
kaltsithat's because the debhelper has been updated between those sdk's17:59
czrkaltsi, well, yes, but I didn't expect it to start whining :-)17:59
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kaltsihehe :)17:59
kaltsithe whining may be just that.. you could ignore it too18:00
kaltsior you are using some obsolete way of doing things that will result in whining18:00
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czrI'm using dh_make. if it generated whineable template rules, I'm not to blame :-)18:00
* czr is trying to update the 3.2 material to 4.0 level18:01
shackangaaaaaaaaaaaaah, maemo down again18:01
czrand can't have my step-by-step intstructions start whining.18:01
JaffaGeneralAntilles: can you try `mplayer -identify file.avi' for me?18:01
JaffaGeneralAntilles: It's possible my fallback/enhanced identification code isn't as robust as I'd like.18:01
kaltsiczr read man debhelper for more info about the debian/compat18:02
czrkaltsi, [sbox-CHINOOK_X86: ~/appdev/z/packaging] > man debhelper18:02
czrbash: man: command not found18:02
konttori_hey, when will mplayer be added to chinook?18:02
kaltsioutside of scratchbox..18:02
czrkaltsi, I haven't installed dh_make outside sbox18:02
konttori_is bartoush handling that or ssvb?18:02
kaltsiwell do it! :)18:02
czrkaltsi, no! :-)18:02
GeneralAntilles Jaffa18:02
czrbesides, the issue is fixed now18:03
czrbut I found yet another bug in 4.018:03
czr"install from file" doesn't work in the application manager in 4.0 sdk.18:03
GeneralAntillesmplayer flashes up when tablet-encode tries to do its thing, then closes and I get the error.18:03
czrnothing happens.18:03
kaltsihmm is dh_make part of the sdk? debhelper didn't install that on my ubuntu18:03
czrkaltsi, it is.18:03
czrI think it's a separate program to debhelper18:04
czrrather package.18:04
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czrhmm. can anyone verify? application manager on 4.0 sdk doesn't support "install from file"?18:04
czrwhich is pretty f*cked. well, less screenshots then.18:05
kaltsiI can try to verify.. holdon18:06
czrit opens the fm dialog to select the deb, then I press select. then nothing happens (fm dialog closes of course, but nothing after that).18:07
kaltsihmm now I need a .deb to test this18:08
czrI'm trying to figure out how to coerse apt-get to download hello-world-app18:09
czr(it's already installed on the sdk)18:09
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kaltsiwhere do I need to copy the deb in order for the file selector to access it?18:09
alteregoczr, source or binary? :)18:10
czralterego, binary, x8618:10
kaltsiczr you're right.. nothing happened18:11
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czrthere's the hello-world-app as well now18:12
czrkaltsi, yup18:12
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czrthanks for the verification18:12
czrI'll try couple of other things and then file a bug report18:12
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kaltsiczr what was that about coercing download of hello-world-app?18:14
alteregoczr, apt-get --reinstall -d hello-world-app18:14
alteregoczr, apt-get --reinstall -d install hello-world-app18:14
kaltsihello-world-app is already installed so it probably..18:14
kaltsiwhich you already said.. where's me coat?18:15
alteregoczr, and the file will be in /var/cache/apt/archives obviously :)18:16
czrso you'll have to remove it, then install it back (along with the two other packages), which is PITA18:17
alteregoUse that command I just gave you.18:17
alteregoIt will force the downloading and of that specific package even if it's already installed.18:18
alteregoExactly what you asked for :P18:18
czralterego, yes, but in order to install the deb, it musn't be installed. in order to remove it, you'll lose two other packages as well18:18
czryes, I'm thinking a step ahead you see18:18
alteregoOh .. The _next_ step :P18:18
alteregoI give up.18:19
* alterego asks on irc.gnome.org18:19
czrno. not yet :-)18:19
czrah, your problem :-)18:19
czrcan't you just shove it out of the window?18:19
alteregoOh ..18:20
alteregoJust as I was connecting I found a promising result in google ^_^18:20
czrremoving the -dev package caused two TNs to start in the AF18:20
czrnow I have two TNs18:21
czreven after AF restart18:21
* czr bangs head against wall18:21
czrI wonder who I could blame for this18:21
alteregoI've had that before.18:22
alteregoYou'll have to do a killall.18:22
czrhow did you fix it?18:22
alteregoI suspect it's because once the second TN gets started, when you restart/stop it doesn't kill that process because it doesn't know about it ..18:22
czrI think the maemo-sdk-dev reinstall is broken18:22
czrno. I did killall. doesn't help18:22
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czrwell. not really. but PITA nevertheless18:23
alteregokillall 15 ?18:23
czrnow I can't make screenshots anymore18:23
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alteregoI use the sb-menu to do my killall anyway.18:23
czralterego, sb-conf killall18:23
czrfaster :-)18:23
alteregoThough .. sb-conf killall is availabel.18:24
czrtruls, what exactly would reboot fix if I have no processes running under sbox?18:24
alteregoMaybe TN has some strange persist like we were looking at the other day ;)18:25
czrI think it's somehow registered twice now since the sdk has been installed "twice"18:25
alteregoWell ..18:25
alteregoThat would mean there are two service files18:25
alteregoOr some other configuration/definition.18:25
czrlet me post a screenshot18:25
czrit's not d-bus I'm sure18:26
trulsczr: mounts18:26
czrit's the main menu thingy18:26
kaltsiczr I got minorly interested about this dh_make + whining thingy.. how can I reproduce the whine?18:26
JaffaGeneralAntilles: fixed version now uploaded. Sorry about that.18:26
czrkaltsi, run dh_make on a project, then remove all other files except 'copyright', 'control', 'rules' and 'changelog' (under debian)18:26
czrthen run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot18:27
kaltsiyep yep, I just thought which project to try it with18:27
czrwhen it will run rules and all the debhelper commands from there, each of them will complain18:27
GeneralAntillesHehe, no worries. You've already saved me dozens of hours with the package. :)18:27
kaltsithe dh_make is supposed to be used on a non-debian thingy to debianize it18:27
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alteregoYes my .so is broken.18:28
czrif you only have an autotoolized project to start with18:28
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kaltsiwell yep .. I thought maybe you had one stashed in a corner somewhere18:28
czrkaltsi, sure, give me a sec18:28
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[mbm]anyone ever see an n800 refuse to go into reflash mode?18:29
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alterego[mbm], have you installed OS2008?18:29
kaltsimbm how?18:29
[mbm]alterego: *grin* tried to18:29
alterego[mbm], you mean you're trying to?18:30
JaffaGah. Now planet's dead again.18:30
kaltsiczr thanks18:30
[mbm]when I first insert the battery I can get it to turn on, but it instantly turns off without displaying the usb icon18:30
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czrhmm. seems that installing hello-world-app doesn't work18:31
czror rather, it installs, but is not displayed in TN18:32
czrneither is it loaded to statusbar nor anywhere else18:32
* czr gets even more annoyed now18:32
czrinteresting. /usr/sbin/dpkg-proconfigure: no such file or directory18:34
czrpreconfigure even18:34
jumpuladpkg-preconfigure is not required by debian policy18:34
kaltsiczr that's not a problem.. it's not required18:34
jumpulayou can ignore the warnings18:35
czrah. ok18:35
kaltsihaa Mr. Jumpula18:35
[mbm]any instructions on a cold flash?18:35
czrwhat about packages failing authentication? :-)18:35
czrWARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!18:35
czr  maemo-example-apps maemo-sdk-dev18:35
jumpulakaltsi: shouldn't you have a maemo free day? :)18:35
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kaltsiwell.. yes :)18:35
kaltsijumpula, you should make a WoW client for n81018:36
jumpulayeah, easy porting18:36
jumpulai just got really annoyed at blizzard18:36
kaltsiwot happen?18:37
czrthis is what I see. the main menu is twice on the left18:37
czrboth work btw :-)18:37
jumpulathe netword update thingy gives server error 500, wine had some problems with the bc updater18:37
czrthe hello world applet doesn't work though18:37
jumpulaand now i'm running windows.18:38
kaltsijumpula 8-O18:38
jumpulait has been ages, but managed to boot from an ancient partition18:38
* czr wonders if he now has to reinstall the sdk18:38
czranyone want to verify this bug? it will leave the sdk unusable though :-)18:39
jumpulahowever, the installer seems to be dead here too18:39
kaltsimaybe blizzard's website is run by the same company as (dead)18:39
jumpula"i see dead people"18:39
czrthey must be using the same IPR18:39
jumpulato top of it all, the setup for nvidia drivers i tried to install crashed in the end :)18:40
jumpulaalthough the application was only configuration helper, so i don't care18:40
jumpulait just moddled my settings18:41
jumpulai miss linux already18:41
czrkaltsi, did you get the "operation failed" hildonbanner with application manager as well? (when you started it)18:42
czrI wonder whether that is related to the install from file problem18:42
czrbut now I have a more serious one.18:43
kaltsiit coudl have something to do with network access18:43
czrnetwork is fine18:43
czrah. you mean stuff like conic and such?18:43
* czr shrugs18:43
kaltsiat least when I try to refresh the app list, then it will complain about libconic18:43
czrcould be18:43
czrwhat is the file that determines what is put in the task navigator?18:44
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suihkulokkiczr: a .conf file somewhere under /etc18:45
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czrsuihkulokki, ah, _that_ one ;-)18:45
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czrhmm. I wonder why a) I don't get any of the hello-world-app dynamic so thingies b) don't get the hello world task navigator thingy, and c) get the applications-menu twice in TN18:46
* alterego resorts to looking in the glib source.18:46
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* czr resorts to reinstalling the fucking sdk18:49
* czr is not amused18:49
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timelyx_Monkey forget game18:53
_Monkeytimelyx: I forgot game18:53
timelyx_Monkey game is <reply>18:53
_MonkeyOK, timelyx.18:53
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czrFYI truls, rebooting didn't fix anything.18:54
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alteregoOh .. A little bit more info ..18:55
czrwho would've thought little helloworlds wer so dangerous18:56
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czrkaltsi, ah, you fixed one of my bugs too :-)19:02
kaltsiwell I just uploaded the packets there :)19:04
czrI know. still :-)19:05
kaltsiI like to mark bugs to fixed and grab the glory :)19:05
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trevarthananyone have subversion for chinook yet?19:08
zerojayShouldn't the old one work fine?19:08
zerojayConsidering it's just a command line tool?19:08
kaltsisvn is there19:08
trevarthantried from appmng. No luck. Incompatible. Lemme try dpkg -i19:09
kaltsiyou mean for the device?19:09
kaltsithat's not there .. only in scratchbox19:10
* czr looks at GutsyX86-maemo-chinook-fucked-up-by-helloworld.tar.gz with tears in his eyes19:10
* czr waves bye bye to it19:10
trevarthanYeah. The device. I'm a python dev. I try not to mess with scratchbox.19:11
trevarthanI wish the thumb vkb wouldn't always start with some text in it in chinook's xterm. Really annoying.19:12
kaltsitrevarthan: well the official n800 image is not out yet19:13
trevarthanYeah. Maybe it'll be fixed by then.19:13
konttori_maybe someone could compile svn for the device.19:14
kaltsitrevarthan: which language do you use?19:14
konttori_should be pretty straight forward.19:14
kaltsikonttori_: yeah.. do it! :)19:14
konttori_shouldn't bora version work out of the box19:14
konttori_well, not me. I don't have enough porting experience.19:14
trevarthanI've got mixed feelings about the toolbar being on the bottom instead of the right too. Better line length. But pgup and pgdwn are awkward now.19:15
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trevarthanarg. thumb vkb pastes all text twice too.19:16
trevarthankaltsi: python19:17
_Monkeysomebody said python was probably the easiest19:17
trevarthanyer a genious monkey19:17
kaltsitrevarthan: ok, but as a language in the device.. english, french? :)19:17
_Monkeyenglish is fine, no worrink!19:17
czr_Monkey, you're deep from accordion19:18
_Monkeyczr: what?19:18
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trevarthani love chinook btw. just wish xterm and the thumb vkb weren't fucked up.19:19
konttori_trevarthan: ah. the xterm wasn't really properly tested for n800. I can see that being really annoying. I will add it to our bug db on monday19:19
konttori_I'm handling xterm, so let me know of other annoyances as well19:20
trevarthanthank you.19:20
czrhmm. TN will break permanently only if it is running when the hello-world-app is removed19:20
timelyx_Monkey forget python19:20
_Monkeytimelyx: I forgot python19:20
timelyx_Monkey python is <reply>19:20
_MonkeyOK, timelyx.19:20
konttori_and the xterm is completely in garage, so it can be fixed in-between releases pretty easily as well (and we welcome contributors)19:20
timelyx_Monkey forget english19:21
_Monkeytimelyx: I forgot english19:21
Jaffakonttori_: by "our bug db", I assume you mean Bugzilla/Garage; cos it'd be really irritating to know there are still internal bug trackers in regular use inside Nokia *as the default option* for open source stuff19:21
timelyx_Monkey english is <reply>19:21
_MonkeyOK, timelyx.19:21
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trevarthanoh really? cool.19:21
zerojayGeneralAntilles: That sound official and professional? ;)19:21
konttori_ahh... yeah. true.19:21
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konttori_I suppose it's better to keep master in garage.19:22
sp3000garage's bugmail sucks :(19:22
JaffaOf course, you can't get to garage atm :-(19:22
czrgarage still down?19:22
czrah :-)19:22
konttori_it's up19:22
JaffaOh, it's back now.19:22
timelyxJaffa: unfortunately, nokia really does suck19:22
JaffaWonderful, I can do lots of commits19:22
czr ?19:22
trevarthanany chance we can make the location of the toolbar configurable in xterm?19:22
konttori_and trevarthan, it can actually be that the thumb bug has been fixed in the latest xterm available on garage19:23
czranyone get anything but a blank screen from that url?19:23
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GeneralAntillesHmm? What's that, zerojay?19:23
konttori_I don't have my n810 with me on the weekend, as I had to loan it to another dev, but I'll check on the bug on monday19:23
trevarthanIs there a package for download on garage? Or just svn?19:23
timelyxJaffa: you can get to portions of garage19:23
konttori_trevarthan: the location of the toolbar is specified by the UI people to be inline with ordinary toolbar use.19:23
konttori_so, cannot be done for nokia releases. sorry.19:24
zerojayGeneralAntilles: The message I sent out on Jablet announcing the quick downtime.19:24
konttori_trevarthan: I don't think there is a package in garage.19:24
timelyxkonttori_: i'm curious19:24
timelyxwould you be opposed to adding code to handle alternate preferences?19:24
GeneralAntillesHa, didn't see it.19:25
timelyxi'm currently wontfixing bugs asking for such junk19:25
timelyxbecause i need to start removing junk our ui designer asked for19:25
trevarthanSurely toolbar location could be optional and default to nokia standards though?19:25
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Oh... weird. Should have been broadcast to everyone. The broadcast plugin got updated last night.. maybe they gummed it up. :/19:25
konttori_nope, just that we can't deliver, as it would require new translations for the options and we are past the point of being able to request for new translations19:25
timelyxtrevarthan: if it requires ui work, it's pretty much out :)19:25
timelyxkonttori_: gconf only (no ui)?19:26
konttori_yeah, that would do it.19:26
konttori_In the end, I think it should be pretty easy to make the transtion to right side toolbar from the bottom toolbar.19:26
zuhWhat, Nokia spends UI cycles on xterm? Umm... Well spent, I hope ;)19:26
konttori_I'll keep it in mind.19:27
zuh*UI design cycles19:27
trevarthanhah. Damn. Oh well. It's not that bad i guess. I think you'll get more complaints though.19:27
konttori_Nope, nokia spent maybe 4 hours on the UI.19:27
timelyxzuh: nokia freezes ui design cycles19:27
konttori_But it had to support some general guidlines (such as toolbar at the bottom)19:27
timelyxyou get a few, and then aren't allowed to touch it for 18months :)19:27
alteregoxterm wasn't developed by nokia.19:28
zuhhmm, osso-xterm is officially supported now?19:28
timelyxofficially supported, hah19:29
alteregoI think it's included in the rough OS2008 release everyone seems to be using.19:29
timelyxwhat's that mean?19:29
trevarthanMaybe xterm should be strictly 3rd party then. I'm not sure why a normal user would want it anyway to be honest.19:29
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timelyxtrevarthan: that was the claim used for 2005, 2006, 200719:29
derfDefine "normal".19:29
alteregotrevarthan, it is third party.19:29
pupnikthey should just send out the darn N810 to the 500 people with the dev discount, finished OS or no19:29
alteregoRegardless, when it comes down to it. I'd say 90% of tablet users use the xterm ..19:29
trevarthanI mean not included with the os and not governed by nokia.19:29
zuhtimelyx: in the images or in the tableteer repos (or whatever they were)19:29
shackanalterego: yeah, normal people don't buy tablets, geeks do19:30
alteregotrevarthan, it's not included with any official OS release.19:30
trevarthanSure it is. :)19:30
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alteregoNo, it isn't.19:31
alteregoYou might think it is. But you're wrong.19:31
trevarthanReally? Maybe i'm not remembering then.19:31
timelyxdo i have to vpn in on  a saturday night to answer this?19:31
* timelyx really thinks that's an awful way to spend a saturday night19:31
czrtimelyx, you know you want to19:31
trevarthanWhy the hell is it governed by nokia then?19:32
* zuh is just wondering what benefits it gets from being "nokia governed" other than "must follow general UI design that has nothing to do with using the command line...)19:32
shackantimelyx: but still, you're on irc on a sat night19:32
alteregoI don't know what that means. All I know is xterm was never supplied with any official OS release.19:32
timelyxshackan: i'm watching tv19:32
timelyxor a movie19:32
timelyxor both19:32
timelyxvpn'ing would require i pull out my work laptop19:32
timelyxand turn it on19:32
czrkaltsi, bug 2313. you want to close that one as well? ;-)19:32
_MonkeyBug 2313 might be found at
timelyxthis is my recreational mac19:32
czrlooks easy to fix.. very.19:32
kaltsiczr: eek19:33
czrthere's a screenshot too :-)19:33
czrI just verified the bug. it wasn't one-off19:33
timelyxczr: what'19:33
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czrtimelyx, what what?19:34
timelyxs w/ the second applicaiton launcher menu?19:34
timelyxmy enter key is too close to '19:34
czrtimelyx, look at the screenshot19:34
czrI have two application menus in the TN19:34
czrboth work19:34
czroddly enough, repeating the same breakage-procedure did not add more copies of the application menus :-)19:34
czrmore seriously though, none of the .so based examples in hello-world-app work anymore19:35
czrexcept the control panel one.19:35
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trevarthanHope someone ports quick launcher to chinook soon. I miss it.19:36
kaltsiI think the correct target for that is the sdk and hello-world.. its postinst or postrm scripts may be buggy, the poor task navigator may have nothing to do with that19:36
czrkaltsi, I have no idea. I picked the category that seemed right to me. normally bugs will find their way into correct places magically :-)19:37
kaltsiyep yep19:37
* czr goes back to setup the SDK19:37
trevarthanI'd also appreciate it if someone could build svn for chinook.19:37
timelyxwhy not use host svn?19:38
czrtimelyx, he wants to run it on the device19:38
konttori_I think xterm fits pretty well on the concept that n810 is computerish device and that with keyboard you can actually use that quite a lot.19:38
timelyxhe's nuts19:38
czror do you trevarthan?19:38
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konttori_I don't know the details why it was chosen to be added, but in the end I think it was a pretty good idea19:39
czrkonttori_, if only the keyboard would have a tab as well!19:39
* konttori_ leaves to play some tennis19:39
czryeah. xterm ftw.19:39
konttori_czr: it actually had (fn + space).19:39
czrhmm. why not a proper one?19:39
konttori_I think that can still be configured by the x11 bindings19:39
timelyxkonttori_: ooh!19:39
konttori_anyway, need to leave19:39
timelyxcan you please help me?19:40
timelyxi have these nuts bothering the browser team19:40
timelyxplease explain to them how to map keys per app :)19:40
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czrhmm. fn+space sounds nice. how to do it?19:40
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* czr gives a bag of bolts to timelyx19:40
timelyxlighting please?19:41
timelyxthat'd work nicely19:41
trevarthantimelyx: yeah. I run svn on the device for python dev over ssh. Efficient that way.19:41
timelyxtrevarthan: sshfs?19:41
_Monkeysomebody said sshfs was enough for mgedmin_'s needs19:41
* timelyx would go w/ rsync19:41
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trevarthanSure. Or svn on the device. :)Sure. Or svn on the device. :)19:43
GeneralAntillesnuts . . . I just want some basic functionality out of my browser. ;)19:43
alteregoWow, the PDF reader is faster too :)19:43
czrGeneralAntilles, shouldn't you be adding it instead of taking it out?19:43
alteregoStill no support for hyperlinks though ..19:43
czralterego, did you find a solution to your prob btw?19:44
trevarthanBtw. That sentence dup is chinook's xterm plus thumb vkb bug fault.19:44
GeneralAntillesHar har, czr.19:44
czrGeneralAntilles, I'm sorry. bad hair and everything else -day.19:44
JaffaYay, first proper tablet-encode release now on garage:
alteregoczr, still working on it.19:47
czralterego, ok. I'm thinking of quitting for tonight. motivation drainage after all the sdk mess.19:47
RushPL_Jaffa: is the result of tablet-encode playable on the default video player?19:47
RushPL_not mplayer19:47
GeneralAntillesYes, RushPL_.19:47
JaffaRushPL_: yep, guaranteed (well, unless you use the 'mplayer' preset)19:47
alteregoczr, so you don't want to help me with my issue? ;)19:48
RushPL_cool, I need to try it. :)19:48
GeneralAntillesmplayer preset will run just fine on the built-in on the N80019:48
trevarthanIt would be really nice if the pdf reader remembered your page position like fbreader.19:48
GeneralAntillesAdd another 400Kbps on it, even.19:48
czralterego, not unless you want me to bork your SDK as well :-)19:48
JaffaGeneralAntilles: might not now - it's been bumped up a little higher19:48
JaffaAh OK, cool.19:48
timelyxtrevarthan: is that bug filed?19:48
GeneralAntillesI've bumped it to 1200 no problem.19:48
JaffaGeneralAntilles: you running OS2008 on your N800?19:48
timelyxtrevarthan: also, how do you define a pdf file?19:48
GeneralAntillesIt stays at 1000 by default, though.19:48
timelyxif you load page 5 in a pdf19:49
timelyxand quit19:49
trevarthantimelyx: which one?19:49
timelyxand then move the pdf19:49
GeneralAntillesbut that worked under os2007, too.19:49
timelyxand reopen19:49
timelyxwhat page should it show?19:49
timelyxquit again, rename the file, roepen19:49
timelyxwhat page should it show?19:49
JaffaGeneralAntilles: indeed, just wanted some additional testing - we could bump the "best" preset up to whatever's really best, and lose the mplayer specific one if it's that good.19:49
timelyxtrevarthan: once you've answered these questions, file a bug in bugs.maemo.org19:49
trevarthanDon't care really. Just want it to remember if i don't move the pdf.19:49
timelyxhow many files should it remember?19:50
timelyx10, 20, 100, 1000?19:50
timelyxhow should it choose to forget?19:50
alteregoczr, what should be extremely simple is being a pain in the ass :/19:50
timelyxwhat if you open 1million files?19:50
timelyxat some point, that's space on your very limited root partition19:50
kaltsior a gazillion!?19:50
czralterego, I feel the pain and can relate to the feeling. unfortunately for your ass and mine.19:50
trevarthanYer fucked? :)19:51
timelyxanswer these questions *properly* before filing19:51
timelyxotherwise, the results will be bad19:51
alteregoczr, at least I have an error to work with now. Something the hildon-desktop loader didn't give me: undefined symbol: hd_plugin_loader_get_type19:51
czrthat looks like API incompatibility somewhere19:52
trevarthanI think all of that is up to the dev. I just want it to remember. Don't care how.19:52
timelyxtrevarthan: left up to the dev it'll get messed up19:53
timelyxlost, forgotten, or done poorly19:53
timelyxpick all the answers, leave it so the dev doesn't have to spend time thinking, negotiating, or discussing19:53
trevarthanWow. It must suck to be a dev at nokia. No creativity allowed?19:54
JaffaPlanet's dead again.19:54
czrkaltsi, found the cause for the 'operation not permittied' problem in AM19:58
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czrahhaha. the same reason stops it from installing from file19:58
czrhmm. another problem though19:59
czr"dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege"19:59
_Monkeywell, sudo is supposed to do that.  this is the difference in running as root and running from within a shell run as root  :)20:00
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czrkaltsi, no. it tries to run /usr/bin/fakeroot20:00
czrwhich isn't there. instead fakeroot is at /scratchbox/blah.20:00
czradded a symlink. it kind of works. except that when it comes to the time to actually install the deb20:00
czrthen it fails because it's not running dpkg internally using fakeroot20:01
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* czr curses in old church slavic20:01
kaltsihmm I've installed the sdk now a number of times in ubuntu and redhat systems.. never ran into that20:01
czrkaltsi, err, this is the "install from file" problem20:01
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czrin application manager.20:02
czrthe one that you verified ;-)20:02
kaltsi.. my coat20:02
* czr hands it to kaltsi20:02
kaltsithank you, sir :)20:02
czrsuits you :-)20:02
kaltsihm hum.. what if you started the AM as fakeroot.. would that make any sense (the fakeroot is a bit of magic to me)20:04
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kaltsinah that makes no sense20:08
czrthe problem is that AM is not designed for SDK use. that's the problem20:08
timelyxdid jericho use an n810?20:08
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* timelyx chuckles20:09
timelyxdo you know how much free space there is on an n800?20:09
timelyxsay <128mb20:09
kaltsithat's just nitpicking20:10
trevarthando you know how much space a name->int mapping takes?20:10
timelyx1million page mappings, w/ file paths of say 256 chars (minimum)20:10
trevarthanpractically nothing20:10
timelyxeach mapping is say 1k20:10
timelyxso, um...20:10
trevarthannobody will open 1 million files in pdf reader20:11
kaltsimake it hash the document name and add a page number.. if someone goes through a million pdf documents with their n800, give that guy a cigar20:11
kaltsiyou, sir, are a star! .. or the sdk rules? :)20:12
czronly if you consider ruling to be "forces to write incredible kludges"?20:12
timelyxtrevarthan: severity: enh20:13
kaltsisounds like ruling20:13
czrkaltsi, maybe in the company that you work in.. oh, wait..20:13
czrbut everyone knows that glue is what makes the world go around20:13
czrI'll have a quick smoke and write up the bug-report. I noticed that there'a a log in AM nowadays too20:14
czrthat prompted me to the first kludge20:14
czrthe second kludge I had to kludgify all by myself20:14
kaltsiit's been there a long time.. at least with the red pill mode20:14
* czr shrugs20:14
trevarthantimelyx: done20:14
czrit should be shown by default when there are issues20:14
kaltsinot really20:14
timelyxtrevarthan: was the guided form unclear or did you sorta skip that?20:14
* timelyx works on improving bugzilla too20:15
czrit should be! when _I_ have issues. damn it :-)20:15
kaltsithe 'average' user would never dare to use the AM again :)20:15
czrwho you calling average!20:15
* czr goes to have the smoke20:15
kaltsitakes one to know one!20:15
alteregoI'm getting the feeling I'll never get this to work.20:15
czrmaybe we should marry, procreate and fill the world with perfect averageness20:15
trevarthantimelyx: too much data on the page. I looked, but didn't see it.20:16
trevarthanI'm used to Trac tickets20:16
trevarthanMan, I wish FBReader did PDF. They apparently have no interest in doing PDF though. Something about it being non-free?20:18
czrkaltsi, application catalog doesn't work though. refreshing I mean. at least now I get an error message though20:19
czrhildon-application-manager[6261]: GLIB DEBUG ConIc - con_ic_connection_send_event(0x8154470, (null), (null), 1)20:19
czror rather, a debug message20:19
alteregoHmm .. Anyone know off hand what the correct sh syntax for assigning a value to a variable by having the name in another variable?20:20
czrbut I don't really need that.20:20
trevarthanAnyone else experiencing wicked clock drift in chinook?20:20
alteregosomething like $1= ?20:20
trevarthanI set my clock two hours ago and it's off by an hour already.20:20
czrtrevarthan, by chinook do you mean the SDK or a device?20:20
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czrthen say so. chinook = sdk 4.020:21
trevarthanN810 firmware on an n80020:21
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czrah. can't help you there.20:21
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czrlet me see what my device says20:21
trevarthantimelyx: why isn't NTP a default part of maemo yet?20:21
timelyxdo i look like i'm part of core?20:21
elbntp is, generally speaking, not good for power management20:21
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timelyxbut that's why i wouldn't add it :)20:22
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kaltsialterego: foo=$bar20:23
czrbtw. what is the component in application manager which kinds of resembles of "history" toolbar. the gray one with <- | Main > Browse installable applications?20:23
timelyxcookie crumbs?20:23
kaltsialterego: nevermind.. :)20:23
timelyxit should be in media player too20:23
alteregokaltsi, thanks. Though it doesn't matter. I'm writing my script in Ruby instead ;)20:23
GeneralAntillesNice if it could use NTP for a monthly sync, or something.20:23
czrtimelyx, maybe so, but media player is not present in the SDK20:23
timelyxnot sure if it made it anywhere else20:23
timelyxczr: ok, well, :)20:23
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kaltsialterego: in php there was this ${} thingy, dunno about ruby20:24
trevarthankonttori: timelyx: I just noticed that I can't open URL links from xterm anymore.20:24
trevarthanin chinook20:24
czreval is the correct way20:24
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czralterego, foo=`eval $bar`20:24
alteregokaltsi, I don't need to do it in Ruby. It was just a hack for doing something in sh20:25
czror smt like that20:25
trevarthankonttori: timelyx: I can't copy and paste from xterm either. ugh.20:26
trevarthanyeah, used to work fine in bora20:26
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timelyx /usr/bin/browser --url=x20:26
timelyxdoesn't work?20:26
trevarthandunno. I just know that URLs are underlined in xterm, and you used to be able to open them by holding the stylus over them. you can't now.20:27
trevarthanalso, you used to be able to copy and paste by highlighting and going to Copy on the vkb. can't do that either now.20:27
timelyxare the vkbs available?20:28
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trevarthanI found copy. it's in the xterm menu. maybe it was always like that and I forgot.20:32
trevarthanbut the URL thing used to be really cool. too bad that's broken.20:32
derfURL highlighting is a must.20:32
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czrin case you're interested in seeing the "solution"20:35
kaltsihehe nice20:36
czroddly enough running dpkg.orig with fakeroot didn't work20:36
czrbut hey, at least it works now20:36
czrwhat is the correct way to write hildon btw?20:38
czrhildon or Hildon?20:38
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kaltsi that place uses Hildon a lot20:39
czrso why don't you people spell it correctly then? :-)20:39
timelyxdo i ever write it anywhere?20:40
kaltsithe shift key quota was reached last month20:40
czrplural you. as in "they" in the evil "they" :-)20:40
czrkaltsi, indeed :-)20:40
czrwhat about libosso?20:40
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czrI'm serious though20:41
timelyxit has various baseline apis20:41
czrLibosso or LibOSSO?20:41
timelyxincluding iirc oom notifications20:41
timelyxlibosso afaik20:41
czrI know what it has. just wondering what you people use to write about it20:41
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czrwhich form/capitalization that is.20:41
timelyxi think it's the elephant in the corner20:41
timelyxno one writes about it :)20:42
timelyxbut i'd write it all lowercase20:42
kaltsitake a look at the maemo quick start guide now that the site is up..20:42
czrok. you kaltsi?20:42
timelyxand yeah, i don't mind, since i've been known to ask similar questions in the past20:42
kaltsithat must mention the libosso somewhere.. I'd use that20:42
kaltsiooo missed it.. site went down :D20:42
timelyxlibosso.h. o + Data Structures. | o * osso_hw_state_t .... Generated on Mon Dec 18 16:43:35 2006 for Libosso by doxygen -20:42
timelyxremind me to shoot someone20:43
timelyxthe python people spell it LibOSSO]20:43
czrso do I20:43
timelyxLibOSSO: Not included20:43
timelyxWhen Libosso calls the application's exit callback function, the application should save its GUI state and unsaved user data and exit as soon as possible. ...20:43 - 40k -20:43
czrwithout the brace obviously.20:43
timelyxthe api people can't make up their mind20:43
czrI suggest LibOSSO. as per origin.20:43
czrand infact, I've had this discussion with other people already. there just doesn't seem to be a consensus on it20:44
* timelyx prefers elephant in corner20:44
timelyxmuch better :)20:44
timelyxanyway, i'm hungry20:44
* czr agrees20:44
timelyxi need dinner from yesterday20:44
czr-l'elephant in corner' ? :-)20:44
timelyxand breakfast/lunch/dinner from today20:44
timelyxczr: sold20:44
czrgreat. I'll file a bug against it20:45
timelyxgood by me20:45
timelyxand goodbye -- me :)20:45
czrso instead of osso_initialize, it will be elephant_in_corner_energize() ? :-)20:45
czrlater timelyx :-)20:45
czrI need some food too actually.20:45
kaltsithe maemo tutorial seems to call it LibOSSO20:46
czrbut maemo tutorial is broken too20:46
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czrthe fact is, all of the documents are in rather many ways in contradiction with each other :-)20:46
czrlike maemo tutorial vs coding style, etc20:46
czrhmm. any idea where should I could the 'control' files of already installed deb packages?20:47
kaltsiit also calls it libOSSO20:47
czrI wonder if anyone calls it LibOsso or libOsso20:47
kaltsi"should I could" ?20:47
czroh my. brain mistakes :-)20:47
czrshould i find :-)20:47
czrI would find works too20:47
kaltsihmm I doubt the control files get installed20:48
czrah. shame20:48
kaltsior I wonder how 'postrm' works.. that's a control file too and it's run when the deb is uninstalled.. so maybe they are somewhere20:49
timelyxthose do go somewhere20:49
timelyx /var iirc20:49
timelyxanyway, if the file's in chinook, the xref knows :)20:49
czrkaltsi, they're in /var/lib/dpkg/ smt.20:49
kaltsiok good to know20:49
alteregoI'm giving up for a while.20:50
* alterego moves on to his Ruby based build system.20:50
czrbeh, I just did a dump of dpkg -l > foo and went through all usages of hildon there20:51
czrjust to check whether it's spelled incorrectly in other packages too20:51
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czrtimelyx, does your xref also point to the correct product/bugzilla section for each file? that'd be neat ;-)20:51
czrdamn. someone grabbed 231420:54
czrah. that was the one million files issue :--)20:55
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kaltsiczr if you find this kind of bugs file them directly under development platform/sdk20:57
czrkaltsi, even if it's in hildon-theme-plankton?20:57
kaltsiwell no :)20:57
czrthis is why I choose what seems best to be and let heads roll.. or what was it :-)20:58
czrthe product/category thing is really unclear to me at times20:58
czrespecially since the SDK is not as a separate platform as it should be imho20:58
kaltsialthough the plankton is an sdk theme.. so it would find the responsible from there too :)20:58
czryes. but the point is that we (outsiders) don't get to see who ends up fixing what and what team does what20:59
czrwe just see a randomly organized front-page which doesn't always contain the info that is necessary to decide where to bug people.20:59
czrand no, I'm not whining, just explaining that it's not easy :-)20:59
czralthough I can whine too :-)20:59
* czr is adding all the bugs into a save search thingy21:00
kaltsiI don't blame you and those bugs will find their rightful owner wherever you decide to file them..21:00
* czr nods21:01
alteregoYou made me typo Builder to Buildon czr :P21:02
czrwell, at least you weren't writing about straper21:02
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p|alterego: did you know this: ?21:04
czrhmm. is it possible to add some kind of column in saved searches in bugzilla that indicates how long each bug has been "inactive"?21:06
czrand when a bug was originally opened (by me)21:06
czr"yes there is, use the 'change columns' thingie"21:06
czrargh. but the 'changed' doesn't really reflect "how long", instead shows a date/timestamp21:07
czr"ah yes, but don't you know how to subtract any two given dates to get the number of days count automatically?"21:07
alteregop|, neat21:08
alteregoczr, you could write a script to do that easy :P21:08
sp3000czr, sort?21:08
alteregoDoes grease monkey have the ability to run external scripts to generate content?21:09
czrsp3000, no21:09
alteregoIf it does you're sorted :)21:09
czrtake for example: Opened 2007-10-05, Changed 2007-11-01. I want to see '16 days ago' instead of 2007-11-0121:09
czralterego, yes I could. and then what?21:10
alteregoIsn't that what you want?21:10
czralterego, I prefer to use a browser directly with :-)21:10
czrto write my own script? no. not really.21:10
alteregoczr, you can. That's what greasemonkey does.21:10
czrI don't use greasy monkeys21:11
alteregoIt's like advanced xslt.21:11
czrall my monkeys are squecky clean!21:11
alteregoI don't use it either. I'm just giving you a solution :P21:11
czrI don't like xslt :-)21:11
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sp3000dom rather21:11
alteregoxslt is okay.21:11
czrwell, dom I can live with.21:11
alteregoErm ..21:11
czrbut still, it's not worth it21:11
alteregoI meant it functions similar to XSLT, you can piss around with the content.21:12
alteregoIt'd take you 10 minutes ..21:12
czrnothing ever takes only 10 minutes.21:12
czrespecially things that should take 10 minutes.21:12
p|the problem with all this python/ruby calendar/todo/appointment is that they require to be running always on, no daemon...21:12
alteregoWhy would a program need a daemon?21:13
sp3000czr: wouldn't a limit be sufficient though for what you probably want to do21:13
alterego(not with-standing the effort to make python startup faster21:13
czrsp3000, I don't know what I want to do. it's just hard to calculate relative time based on two arbitrary date-stamps :-)21:13
czrsp3000, never mind. I'm just cranky :-)21:14
sp3000i.e. tack on &chfieldfrom=x on the query21:14
sp3000oh, but, hm, you probably want it the other way around21:14
czr"'x' is not a legal date."21:14
* czr gets only illegal dates21:15
czrI want to see all the bugs. so it's not really limits what I'm looking for21:15
czrI just want to see whether some bug might need more input from me or not, based on how long ago was the last time that something happened to it21:15
sp3000ah, chfieldto rather21:15
sp30001d is a legal relative time21:16
czrhmm. but that shows bugs that were opened and changed during the same day. nothing else :-)21:17
czrwhich is slightly weird :--)21:17
czr(1d with chfieldto)21:17
czror hmm. wait. no.21:17
czrbah. I don't care really. food ->21:17
czrthanks for trying though sp300021:17
sp3000czr: e.g.
keesjthe new gmail is almoost not  usable of the n80021:18
* sp3000 generally uses the /h/ version, it flexes better21:18
* sp3000 would like to have such a version for reader, too :+21:19
sp3000:\ even21:19
keesjanybody using the imap interface now?21:19
sp3000(reader is _heavy_)21:19
sp3000(and the mobile variant or reader is too ...uh, mobile or something)21:20
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sp3000(3 roundtrips to real content, or somehing21:20
keesji guess i will need to start using vnc to get back some performance21:23
maddlerplanet is dead again...21:23
czrhaha. bug 226321:25
_MonkeyBug 2263 might be found at
* czr was reading through some of the older bugs21:25
czr-> afk. alterego, good luck and perseverance!21:26
czrand have a nice evening all too21:26
alteregoSee you21:26
* sp3000 should probably look into running an aggregator21:26
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pupnik770odd, xchat on 770 has no fullscreen apparently21:35
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K`zanMorning all.21:43
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amranyone used that?22:13
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JaffaNope - would be handy if it had some screenshots ;-)22:14
amryeah it would22:14
amri might install it now and give it a go22:14
amrhm, which is the one for os200622:14
amrthats mistral, isn't it?22:15
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JaffaOr gregale22:16
_Monkeygregale is something else entirely22:16
alteregoOr gregale.22:17
_Monkeygregale is something else entirely22:17
alterego_Monkey, forget gregale22:17
_Monkeyalterego: I forgot gregale22:17
amrwhich is the later one?22:17
Jaffa_Monkey: forget gregale22:17
_MonkeyJaffa, I didn't have anything matching gregale22:17
alteregogregale is the newer one.22:17
amrok cool22:17
Jaffa_Monkey: gregale is the codename of the last IT OS 2006 release22:17
_Monkey...but gregale is the newer one....22:17
Jaffa_Monkey: forget gregale22:17
_MonkeyJaffa: I forgot gregale22:17
Jaffa_Monkey: gregale is the codename of the last IT OS 2006 release22:17
_MonkeyOK, Jaffa.22:17
amris it possible to use the bluetooth functionality with python?22:18
alteregoThere should be obex bindings somewhere ..22:19
K`zanIs there and IRC client for 2008 yet?22:20
shackanpidgin works ok22:22
K`zanThanks, will check that out - thought it was just an IM client :-).22:22
* alterego wishes he could customise the colour pallette used in osso-xterm.22:23
JaffaIt's got an IRC transport22:23
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K`zanxchat on 2007 was kinda small for these old eyes :).22:24
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pupniki like the OS2006 audio player tbh22:33
p|can i disable matalyer-crawler ?22:34
pupnikheh good question22:35
p|whats his task ?22:36
pupnik770scanning for media?22:37
pupnik770which is silly because all the directories get rescanned when i open a file browser22:37
pupnik770that's rather slow22:37
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keesjplanel is no londer linked from the front page?22:42
keesjsorry garage news22:42
alteregoI must be compiling this loader wrong.22:46
zerojaypupnik770: metalayer-crawler is for automatically adding music and videos on your SD cards and internal memory to the media player library.22:49
pupnik770audio player still scans my directories whenever i 'open file'22:51
pupnik770i think this is kind of lame22:51
pupnik770i can't target a directory22:51
alteregoHmmm .. hildon-desktop wont even autoconf ..22:51
pupnik770cause it keeps adding directories as it scans them22:51
pupnik770and they keep shifting down in the directory list22:51
pupnik770so you have to wait22:51
pupnik770and wait22:51
pupnik770for the whole list of subdirectories to be scanned22:51
pupnik770before you can select a subdirectory22:51
pupnik770then repeat the process22:51
p|i stopped and revoed it22:51
pupnik770and it's about22:51
pupnik770as watching22:52
pupnik770me type this22:52
alteregoThat was pretty annoying :P22:52
alteregoHmm .. Odd. Builds with dpkg-buildpackage.22:53
p|finally i'm back to OS2007 :)22:53
alteregop|, 2008 not good enough?22:53
alteregoWhat's wrong with it?22:54
p|it lack too many apps22:54
alteregoLike what?22:54
p|pand in primis22:54
alteregoYou could have helped port them :P22:54
p|unfortunately i need it with my phone :(22:55
alteregoWhy didn't you compile pand?22:55
alteregoI would have used it.22:55
p|hehe i'm not a developer :)22:55
alteregoYou don't have to "develop" it. You just have to build it.22:55
p|only a (VERY) little scripter22:55
zerojaypupnik770: Why would you use Open File in media player? All your files are already in the library.22:55
p|i love os2008 interface22:56
pupniki am using audio player22:56
pupniklet me check22:56
alteregozerojay, only when they're scanned by metalayer crawler :P22:56
p|but i think i'll wait for the official version22:56
alteregoI'm not sure I could go back.22:56
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zerojayI can't.22:56
p|alterego: why not ?22:56
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alteregoIt has everything I need and I mainly want it to continue developing ruby-maemo for chinook. It's been a great help ..22:56
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zerojayThe upgrade has so many fixes and stuff I need.22:56
alterego2008 is such an improvement ..22:57
p|i also need xchat, claws-mail,gnumeric22:57
alteregoxchat? pfft.22:57
p|zerojay: for example ?22:57
alteregoI still don't understand why you don't get the packages and compile them yourself.22:57
alteregoYou'd be doing everyone (including yourself) a big favour :P22:57
zerojayFixes to the Jabber client, a browser that no longer crashes, etc..22:57
alteregoIt's crashed once in the past 3 days :)22:58
alteregoFor me.22:58
alteregoNot sure that was the browsers fault though ..22:58
p|i'm very noob to dev.22:58
p|and have not much time to learn unfortunately22:58
alteregoI think I'll start using bleeding edge libraries too :)22:59
alteregoWell, the ones I can compile ^_^22:59
p|when primary applications (for my use) will be available, than i switch again23:00
zerojaypupnik: The entire time I've had my tablet.. maybe 8 months now, I've never even once used Open File in Media Player... so maybe you just don't know about the library or how to get to it.23:00
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GreySimAnyone know if it's possible to rename a memory card on a 770 in OS2007HE? Using the September version as I keep getting disconnected trying to download the new one, but even turning swap off and rebooting, the name change from File Manager doesn't seem to be doing anything...23:02
zerojayYour card might be damaged.23:02
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GreySimHmm. I wouldn't be surprised, honestly.23:03
zerojayNor would I because almost no one knows how to properly use cards anyways.23:04
GreySimOh, weird, the faded memory card icon apparently doesn't actually get used, because I replaced the standard one with a custom icon, but not the faded one, but it just faded my custom one on the fly...23:04
pupnikzerojay: it2006 has "Audio Player" and "video Player" - which do you refer-to?23:05
pupnikanyway the issue i was addressing is ~not~ limited to the audio player23:06
zerojaypupnik: Er.. I don't know because as far as I know, media player is one program that does both. And it's just called Media Player.23:06
pupnikit is the nature of the file selector in it200623:06
pupnikin it2006 clicking on menu gets you:  Audio player // Video player // RSS feed reader // File manager23:06
GreySimAny tips on how to test for damage? My desktop system is Linux if that helps...I've just never had to do this.23:07
* GreySim is currently backing up the card to reformat it just to see if that somehow helps any.23:07
zerojayI don't remember ever seeing separate audio and video players.23:07
zerojayYou must have something else installed.23:07
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pupnikregardless, the issue is with the file-chooser in hildon, which is impossible to click on directories23:08
pupnikuntil it has scanned on all subdirectories23:08
zerojayThat's not really an issue.23:08
pupnikunless you enjoy the video-game aspect of directories in a list moving around23:08
pupnikit is a waste of time and a UI error23:08
zerojayIt's neither.23:08
pupnikyou like waiting 20 seconds to change a directory?23:08
zerojayIt's just the reality of a slow CPU being used with slow media.23:09
pupnikthere's no need for the file chooser to scan each subdirectory23:09
zerojayNo, but it's not like there's any way to fix it.23:09
* GreySim would rather it showed nothing until it was done building the directory list, personally, and the list not jumping around once it is displayed.23:09
pupnikhence, it's a UI design problem23:09
zerojayI'm almost convinced we're not talking about the same thing here at all.23:09
pupnikGreySim: why does the file opener need to show you how many 'items' a directory has?23:10
pupnikthat's just microsoftian featuritis23:10
zerojayBecause it's helpful?23:10
pupnikit is not23:10
GreySimpupnik: Yeah, I agree.23:10
zerojayIt sure is.23:10
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GreySimIt *could* be helpful. But personally I never use it.23:10
zerojayWastes less time than actually going into every directory to find the right one.23:11
GreySimDoes it still do that if you use the small view? The default one on OS 2007?23:11
GreySimWhen trying to figure out which directory is the one I need, the number of items in them is never a factor as far as I can remember. The only time I could ever see that being useful is just knowing if the directory is empty or not, but I'd rather it save the time by not counting and letting me just jump in and out.23:12
zerojayThat's the thing.23:13
zerojayYou wouldn't be saving very much time at all.23:13
zerojayNot enough to even notice it.23:13
GreySimWell, regardless of the causes, I agree that the file manager in 2006 is seriously screwed up. I was just using it last night, and I just reflashed to 2007 today because that was one of the things that seriously irked me about 2006.23:14
zerojayI never got much of a chance to play with 2006.23:15
GreySimLucky you.23:15
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amrwhats wrong with it?23:18
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vegaiHow does the Media Player work these days?23:21
zerojayVery well.23:21
GreySimamr: Actually, I guess my reasons are fairly unique, so probably not worth relating. Among other things, aesthetics. The Plankton theme is reason enough for me to upgrade to 2007HE. >.>23:22
kaltsimeh installing kagu fails23:23
* GreySim cares about usability more than shininess, but given the choice between two things which are roughly identical, will choose the shiny one.23:23
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pupnikfirst report of n810 shipping retail in chicago today23:27
zerojayI'm still waiting on that Nokia e-mail.23:28
GreySimMy odd love of shiny things also leads me to do crazy things like change system fonts and fiddle with .fonts.conf files for two hours trying to figure out the format and options and tweak the font rendering settings to be just right. >.>
zerojayFont's not bad.23:32
zerojayI love OS2008.23:32
GreySimIt's the one from the Android stuff. Droid Sans 14 with no hinting and no subpixel rendering. Droid Serif in FBReader also looks really good with those settings. The default settings make some of the characters look weird otherwise.23:33
*** matt_c has joined #maemo23:33 shop still not listing n81023:34
pupnikGreySim: agree on plankton23:34
zerojayPlankton's pretty cool in 2008 with the transparencies.23:34
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pupnikGreySim: would be nice to have a dark theme like plankton, with dark border around apps instead of white, dark background on apps etc23:35
amrGreySim, yeah i agree23:35
amri love plankton23:35
amrpity it doesn't work properly on 200623:36
amri was trying to copy it using thememaker but i didn't get very far23:36
GreySimHmm. OS2008 doesn't let you reassign the web and contacts buttons still, does it?23:38
pupnikamr: what problems did you have?  plankton worked OK for me on OS2006 except for two white horizontal bars in the left border23:40
amryeah thats what i had23:40
amrit irritated me to no end23:40
GreySimWell, nevermind actually, I guess. I'm just gonna go back to trying to Tangoize as much of Maemo as possible despite the fact that Nokia used non-standard sized icons everywhere for no apparent reason. >.<23:41
amrgits >_<23:41
GreySimThanks for the info though. Guess my memory card is just borked.23:41
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tkohmm, the top two task navigator plugins have been configurable since '07 afaik23:47
tkoor maybe even earlier23:47
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pupnik"We will send you23:50
pupnika notification as soon as the N810 is available in the online Nokia shop23:50
pupnikyou selected."23:50
pupniki don't recall selecting a shop23:50
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hircuspupnik: someone at InternetTabletTalk reported signing up at a Nokia brick-and-mortar shop, for notification, and he actually picked up his tablet yesterday23:54
alteregoSomeone got a tablet already?23:54
alteregoI vaguely remember selecting the online shop I wanted to use.23:54
pupnik770aah... if i did it was  and they don't even list it :(23:55
hircusalterego: yup23:56
alteregoYeah doesn't either. The one I selected.23:56
K`zanThat Nokia start up screen has got to go...23:56
hircusNokia ought to have a less confusing launch coordination23:56
K`zanProbably in flash though :-/.23:56
pupnik770K`zan, i'd like a flying-sphagetti monster touching adam's finger logo on boot23:56 (Nokia US online shop) claims a backorder up to Nov 27th...23:56
hircusAmazon claims Nov 27th as well, I think. but MobileCityOnline claims Nov 23rd23:57
K`zanLOL, anything other than someone trying to grab me :)23:57
hircus.. and LetsTalk apparently shipped some units already, out of their initial shipment23:57
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K`zan_800Hummm, didn't complain about the nick not being registered...23:58
K`zan_800pupnik770: Heh, like that one...23:59

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