IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-11-17

Andy80	eheh	00:00
Andy80	ok, I hope they fix it ;)	00:00
maddler	perhaps they are moving to midgard on an N810! :D	00:00
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Chris12349	I've got a n800, and I'm currently connected to wirelessly via wep. I don't know the wep key and I'd like to retrieve that information. Is that stored in plain text in a file somewhere?	00:02
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derf	In the gconf data, yes.	00:03
derf	gconf-editor or gconftool-2 are your friend.	00:03
Chris12349	thanks, derf :)	00:03
derf	Yer welcome.	00:04
* maddler drinks some cherry		00:04
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K`zan	*********** It's HERE ************ :-)!	00:05
maddler	K`zan:	00:07
maddler	?	00:07
maddler	DON'T tell us N810 is there...	00:08
maddler	someone could kill you! :D	00:08
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derf	Wow, Nokia has sure changed their online store around.	00:10
K`zan	n800 just arrived, reading the box :-).	00:10
derf	I can't use the website at all.	00:11
Jaffa	Bah, I want my N810s already	00:11
Andy80	eheh	00:12
Andy80	I want mine too :)	00:13
Andy80	pfff :P	00:13
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maddler	K`zan: hehehe... yep... same on .it shop :D	00:14
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Chris12349	derf: I just installed and am looking for the wep info in gconf-tool, Do you happen to know the path in gconf off the top of your head?	00:14
maddler	an mine as well!!! :)	00:14
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derf	Chris12349: Not at all.	00:14
Chris12349	derf: :) it's google time	00:14
K`zan	Putting the 4G card internal...	00:14
* Jaffa has http://direct.nokia.com/Product.aspx?model=n810 bookmarked, but it forwards to the N800 page in the UK store (nearly ordered another N800 this morning, before noticing)		00:15
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derf	For me that page "cannot be displayed".	00:15
Jaffa	Hmm, seems to be dependent on whether or not you've got the cookie already set.	00:16
Jaffa	Anyway, bed time.	00:16
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K`zan	The WLAN number inside the back is the MAC Id Right?	00:20
bill20r3	yes.	00:20
bill20r3	mac address	00:20
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K`zan	bill20r3: THanks, got to put that in the MAC accept table on the WAP.	00:22
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YHYHIAMHERE	whats the best client for msn on it2007	00:25
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konttori	heh. n810 update works on n800 is mentioned now even on the geekbrief	00:26
maddler	YHYHIAMHERE: pidgin...	00:26
_Monkey	pidgin is http://pidgin.garage.maemo.org/	00:26
maddler	konttori: is everything working fine?	00:26
maddler	I heard of some (minor) problems...	00:27
GeneralAntilles	Jabber transports, YHYHIAMHERE.	00:27
konttori	since the last changes, I haven't been able to get anything accepted to the repository	00:27
YHYHIAMHERE	and what the best way of installing without downloading the repositary	00:27
GeneralAntilles	Jabber transports, YHYHIAMHERE	00:28
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maddler	YHYHIAMHERE: download all the debs needed... kinda hard IMHO...	00:28
maddler	L0cutusM: ciao!	00:28
Ar-ras	:D	00:29
Ar-ras	lol	00:29
Ar-ras	adding repos dont works	00:29
Ar-ras	but adding manually	00:29
maddler	on OS2008/N800?	00:29
Ar-ras	work	00:29
Ar-ras	yes	00:29
maddler	hehe...	00:29
K`zan	Waiting for battery to charge, hopefully it tells you when it is done...	00:29
derf	It does.	00:29
GeneralAntilles	Just go ahead and use it, K`zan.	00:29
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K`zan	derf: Thanks!	00:30
rhys	so maemo.org is down..	00:30
maddler	I'll keep using OS007 on N800 until 2nd OS2008 release...	00:30
YHYHIAMHERE	cool thats is long i suppose trial and error	00:30
K`zan	GeneralAntilles: As soon as I have a clue as to what to do, reading the pamplet.	00:30
GeneralAntilles	Turn it on and hop in! :P	00:30
K`zan	No manual, nor a CD with it...	00:30
GeneralAntilles	You don't need a stinking manual.	00:30
K`zan	WAP is presumably ready :-)	00:30
GeneralAntilles	Turn it on!	00:30
derf	Manual's on the device.	00:31
K`zan	LOL, I am one of those nuts that actually RTFMs :-).	00:31
K`zan	Aha	00:31
K`zan	Shoveling packaging out of the way now :-)).	00:31
rhys	...can anyone else get to www.maemo.org?	00:31
rhys	im returning a squid proxy error.	00:31
Andy80	rhys: website has problems	00:31
K`zan	Looks like there is a screen protector on it already!	00:31
Ar-ras	the 3,5 cinch jack of the N800 has microfone support too?	00:31
suihkulokki	yes	00:31
rhys	wait	00:32
rhys	what?	00:32
bill20r3	yes.	00:32
rhys	theres a microphone built in.....	00:32
Ar-ras	i dont need the built in	00:32
Ar-ras	i need external	00:32
Ar-ras	:)	00:32
GeneralAntilles	Just pull off the tab and leave the protector on, K`zan.	00:32
rhys	so if i go get the Mic out of my closet, plug it into my nokia, i can use maemo recorder?	00:32
rhys	with the external?	00:32
GeneralAntilles	It's a 3-channel port	00:33
GeneralAntilles	So, you should be able to.	00:33
K`zan	GeneralAntilles: Wilco Sir. I also see the point of getting another battery - not sure how easy it would be to find another coaxial like is on the charger....	00:33
Ar-ras	because i think about building a IR diode to the audio jack, and then write a program like lirc and then you have remote control on N800	00:33
rhys	GeneralAntilles: does that mean like a combination mic/headphone would work with it?	00:33
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, it should.	00:34
rhys	?!! why does noone tell me these things	00:34
GeneralAntilles	K`zan, you might be able to find one of the other, larger Nokia barrel chargers.	00:34
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YHYHIAMHERE	best irc client	00:34
GeneralAntilles	just adapt it.	00:34
GeneralAntilles	xchat	00:34
YHYHIAMHERE	for it800	00:34
GeneralAntilles	Skyhuser's port	00:34
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YHYHIAMHERE	weres the best place to get that	00:35
GeneralAntilles	Google	00:35
_Monkey	Google is my friend and you should make it your friend too	00:35
Ar-ras	where you get the best software for the best device with the best internet connection	00:35
GeneralAntilles	YHYHIAMHERE, Jabber Transports for MSN: http://www.jablet.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9&sid=a0fd91d43ca34d19692cf38bd397b2cd	00:35
rhys	GeneralAntilles: i just plugged in my Mic to the headphone jac	00:35
rhys	it doesnt work	00:35
rhys	with maemorecoder anyway	00:36
Ar-ras	rhys i think you need adapter	00:36
K`zan	Touch screen is a DREAM compared to that Zire!	00:36
YHYHIAMHERE	cool thanks man	00:36
YHYHIAMHERE	ooo people are hot heads here init	00:36
L0cutusM	ciao maddler !	00:36
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K`zan	Not finding my phone, but that is OK.	00:37
GeneralAntilles	Discoverable on?	00:37
K`zan	Was...	00:37
K`zan	Checking	00:37
K`zan	Ok, had to get it to do it again...	00:39
K`zan	damn backlight keeps going off...	00:39
GeneralAntilles	You can increase the timeout when you get through the wizards.	00:39
YHYHIAMHERE	thanks guys	00:39
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K`zan	OK, didn't want to set up the phone now, at the main screen.... Wheee!!!!!!!!!!!!!	00:40
K`zan	Lets see if I can connect through my WAP...	00:40
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Chris12349	coooool, I just successfully installed os 2008 on my n800, it is WAY better!	00:42
Chris12349	you tube actually works, its a little poky, but it is fairly smooth after the whole video loads	00:42
Ar-ras	new OS on Iphone :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5tNvPQB4qE&feature=related	00:43
L0cutusM	wow great , im using an htc tytn as wifi AP for my n800 over PAN/hsdpa	00:45
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\|\|cw	um	00:46
\|\|cw	PAN is networking, wifi is networking, which are you using?	00:46
\|\|cw	and hsdpa is more networking, though irrelevant on the n800 side	00:47
L0cutusM	\|\|cw, htc tytn is an WM6 phone	00:48
\|\|cw	i know that	00:48
L0cutusM	capable only of pan connection	00:49
\|\|cw	but you are eather using wifi or pan	00:49
\|\|cw	pan being bluetooth	00:49
\|\|cw	wifi ap does about the same thing as a bt pan	00:49
L0cutusM	i have found on itt forum a thread on how to make tynt work as AP	00:49
\|\|cw	ok, but that's not pan	00:50
L0cutusM	using wifi over pan	00:50
\|\|cw	pan is bt networking, ap is wifi	00:50
\|\|cw	no	00:50
\|\|cw	you don't understand. wifi is one thing, bt is another	00:50
L0cutusM	yes i know	00:50
\|\|cw	pan is for bt, ap is for wifi	00:50
\|\|cw	do not mix the terms	00:50
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K`zan	Well, wireless connection has some problem, working....	00:51
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K`zan	Must have screwed up entering the WEP key...	00:52
GeneralAntilles	You're not using WPA2? :P>	00:52
\|\|cw	L0cutusM: if you have software that allow the htc to act has a 802.11 access point, then you have wifi ap, if you are using BT pan and having the HTC route/NAT then you have PAN and a router	00:53
K`zan	Not here, unable to get it working with the laptop card under linux...	00:53
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L0cutusM	\|\|cw, http://mobile.msmobiles.com/news.php?id=6740	00:53
K`zan	Says it is connected, but xfer after all this time is up to 1.46kb...	00:53
K`zan	unusable...	00:54
K`zan	3 minutes 20 sec and 2.5kb received and it still won't connect to the local web site. Something wrong someplace.	00:55
\|\|cw	L0cutusM: I see your confusion now, that is an interesting hack. what that does is enable the "supported" PAN connection sharing, then hack the registry to change the device used to the wifi device. it is indeed wifi sharing (though not an AP because it is ad-hoc) and PAN is not being used at all after step 3	00:55
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L0cutusM	yes \|\|cw	00:56
L0cutusM	only wifi	00:56
\|\|cw	ok, so don't say PAN, because you aren't using that	00:56
L0cutusM	ics	00:56
L0cutusM	over wifi	00:57
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L0cutusM	still very interesting	00:57
\|\|cw	it is	00:57
L0cutusM	i can connect more distance than bt	00:57
sp3000	hrm	00:58
K`zan	2 minutes and 1.1kb - going to see about editing the connection.	00:58
sp3000	could someone give a listing of http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_770.php	00:58
L0cutusM	does exist ad-hoc signal repeater ?	00:58
gla55_	why not just buy an access point	01:00
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L0cutusM	gla55_, i need to extend my tytn wifi signal	01:01
L0cutusM	i have not a dsl connection, only umts/hsdpa	01:01
gla55_	why not buy a powerful access point, connect your tytn to it instead of using crappy ad hoc and trying to find an obscure ad hoc extender	01:02
Klaus_Kinski	lol	01:03
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Klaus_Kinski	ad-hoc signal repeater	01:03
\|R	mesh network for the people! ;)	01:03
Klaus_Kinski	such a stupid device muaha	01:03
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Klaus_Kinski	if you need a device for organizing wireless networks then ad-hoc is kind of senseless	01:04
Klaus_Kinski	:D	01:04
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L0cutusM	tytn is able only to act as ad-hoc	01:05
L0cutusM	so is possible to use an ap ?	01:06
L0cutusM	internet <>tytn(ad-hoc)<>AP<>other wifi devices	01:06
L0cutusM	?	01:06
Klaus_Kinski	?	01:06
Klaus_Kinski	you want to share your GPRS?	01:07
L0cutusM	yes	01:07
gla55_	if it's possible with adhoc it should be possible with normal ap based networks	01:08
Klaus_Kinski	i think it would be possible with OpenWrt	01:08
Klaus_Kinski	but I find it a little bit senseless...	01:08
gla55_	..his phone already does the sharing, no?	01:08
Klaus_Kinski	mmh	01:09
gla55_	thats not an issue	01:09
Klaus_Kinski	you are right	01:09
gla55_	just getting wider coverage	01:09
Klaus_Kinski	setting wlan	01:09
K`zan	5.8 kb in 8 minutes, sigh... No go wireless wise.	01:09
Klaus_Kinski	and then his phone as proxy	01:09
gla55_	which he should get by using ap based instead of ad-hoc	01:09
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L0cutusM	so an AP can do the job ?	01:10
Klaus_Kinski	we dont garantee	01:10
L0cutusM	gh	01:11
Klaus_Kinski	because your htc is based on WM06	01:11
Klaus_Kinski	and WM06 sucks	01:11
L0cutusM	yeah i know :)	01:11
L0cutusM	but not so bad after all	01:11
GeneralAntilles	K`zan, making progress? :D	01:13
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L0cutusM	i need an app like cash organizer on n800...	01:14
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Klaus_Kinski	L0cutusM go away	01:14
Klaus_Kinski	:(	01:15
Klaus_Kinski	it's like the guy who asked for WM06 for N800	01:15
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L0cutusM	buahaha	01:16
L0cutusM	if there is a palmos emulator...	01:17
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L0cutusM	why not a wm6 emulator than ? :)	01:17
GeneralAntilles	Ugh	01:17
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GeneralAntilles	Why not emulate everything	01:17
GeneralAntilles	then we wouldn't even NEED a platform!	01:18
K`zan	Well I can ping the n800 and traceroute it but still no web page will load on the n800...	01:18
GeneralAntilles	Weirdness	01:18
K`zan	Sigh, the old WG511 card on the Solo works blazingly fast.	01:19
K`zan	Perhaps try setting a static IP for it, about out of ideas.	01:19
K`zan	No open networks around here.	01:19
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GeneralAntilles	You could try temporarily opening yours.	01:19
K`zan	Could, but I am not sure I want to screw up all the other devices for this one...	01:20
GeneralAntilles	Well, for testing.	01:20
K`zan	MAC is correct and WEP key is correct and still 400 bytes in 2 minutes.	01:20
GeneralAntilles	Try a different channel?	01:21
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GeneralAntilles	Power saving settings could be weird	01:21
K`zan	No one else on that channel but me...	01:21
GeneralAntilles	check it under connection settings in control panel	01:21
* GeneralAntilles 's NITs have always worked perfectly with his routers, so he has no experience with wireless troubleshooting. :(		01:21
K`zan	Shows a full signal (should, 5' from device) and a lock with a single keyhole (all the rest have 3, wonder what that means)...	01:23
GeneralAntilles	WPA2	01:23
GeneralAntilles	WEP is so stupidly insecure. :P	01:23
K`zan	Then I shitcan everything else using the WAP...	01:23
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	01:23
GeneralAntilles	What router?	01:23
K`zan	Yes, it is, but the other cards just don't work under linux and I am not running wincrap anything :-)	01:24
Klaus_Kinski	GeneralAntilles use WEP2 it is safer then WPA and WEP	01:24
Klaus_Kinski	NOT ;)	01:24
K`zan	Cisco / Linksys WRT54GX	01:24
K`zan	Some asshole wants in, they are going to get in...	01:24
GeneralAntilles	Huh	01:25
K`zan	Esp with the local TV stations showing everyone how easy it is...	01:25
GeneralAntilles	Maybe something with Speedbooster?	01:25
K`zan	Dunno, could dig the old Belkin out of the closet and try that.	01:25
K`zan	So much for this day, sigh.	01:25
GeneralAntilles	Ha	01:25
GeneralAntilles	It's only 6:30PM :P	01:26
K`zan	Only 1526 here :-)	01:26
K`zan	About to toss it back in the box...	01:26
GeneralAntilles	The N800?	01:27
_Monkey	the n800 is much better than a desk phone :-)	01:27
kriebel	I'm sure this has been covered, but it has to be faster use USB or a card reader	01:27
kriebel	or is this real time?	01:27
kriebel	sorry	01:27
GeneralAntilles	Can you access an http server on a local box?	01:28
GeneralAntilles	How are the speeds there?	01:28
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K`zan	Would be nice to be able to run ifconfig and netstat...	01:28
GeneralAntilles	You could try a restart if you haven't.	01:28
czr	K`zan, /sbin/ifconfig	01:29
GeneralAntilles	or try reconnecting	01:29
czr	and you can build your own netstat, the one in busybox is pretty useless	01:29
czr	-> sleep	01:30
K`zan	czr is there a terminal in here someplace, still looking...	01:30
czr	K`zan, what are you using?	01:31
GeneralAntilles	2007	01:31
GeneralAntilles	It's got to be installed	01:31
GeneralAntilles	Hell, flash 2008	01:31
czr	hmm. I think one needed to install it separately on the 2007	01:31
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, it's not bundled with 2007	01:31
czr	K`zan, look for osso-terminal in the application manager and install it	01:31
GeneralAntilles	No interweb	01:31
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czr	or was it osso-xterminal. or interweb. as long as you take the 2007 version	01:31
czr	interblag	01:31
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* rafl has problems with microb and youtube.		01:32
GeneralAntilles	Just go ahead and do this, K`zan. :P http://www.cnet.com/surveillance-state/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html	01:32
czr	anyhow, sleeps ->	01:32
rafl	the flash player loads and plays the first few seconds and then just disapears.	01:32
rafl	anyone else experiencing this?	01:32
K`zan	GeneralAntilles: Can't get out on the device...	01:32
GeneralAntilles	Right	01:32
GeneralAntilles	Download the OS2008 image on your computer and flash it.	01:32
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K`zan	GeneralAntilles: Then none of the apps I want will run for now LOL!	01:33
GeneralAntilles	Like?	01:33
GeneralAntilles	Plus, that situation is going to change very rapidly over the next two weeks.	01:34
K`zan	xchat, maemo mapper and a few others...	01:34
ol_schoola	how is mapper coming along? i look today but not very thorough	01:34
GeneralAntilles	No word yet.	01:35
K`zan	Figured I format the SD cards, can't find that yet LOL!	01:35
GeneralAntilles	File Manager	01:35
_Monkey	File Manager is a lot faster in scanning directories..	01:35
GeneralAntilles	Menu	01:35
K`zan	Did get the screen from going dark every 10 seconds though!	01:35
ol_schoola	well, no hurry for me. just got the 800 a week ago and managed to get chinook running on the internal card	01:36
ol_schoola	gps receiver works great, the map app is kinda lame	01:36
GeneralAntilles	It's not great.	01:36
rafl	ol_schoola: what gps receiver did you get? the nokia navigation kit thingy or something else?	01:36
GeneralAntilles	I think offline navigation and lots of POIs are the selling points.	01:36
K`zan	Formatted!	01:37
ol_schoola	i thought that going to Find: and typing just a streetno and street name together on the street field produced interesting results	01:37
K`zan	Keeps connecting to the WAP, but nothing happens with it.	01:37
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GeneralAntilles	Try a restart	01:37
GeneralAntilles	or try the Belkin.	01:37
GeneralAntilles	It doesn't like some settings on your router.	01:38
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GeneralAntilles	Does it have an IP?	01:38
ol_schoola	it would find the nearest street of that name, lookup the number and then truncate and move the number to its field	01:38
GeneralAntilles	I'll still be using maemo mapper. :)	01:39
ol_schoola	our garmins and magellan don't do that	01:39
GeneralAntilles	Hopefully it'll be fixed by release.	01:39
GeneralAntilles	You might try submitting a bug.	01:39
chelli	GeneralAntilles, K`zan: i am working on maemo-mapper right now, it seems to work with some minor problems, i'll try to fix them an send a patch to gnuite	01:39
ol_schoola	heck, i haven't even had a chance to use mapper with the gps yet. it arrived yesterday when my futzing about killed the 2007 install	01:39
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K`zan	About 3/4 charged now :)	01:41
chelli	anyone interested in testing maemo-mapper? see: http://people.debian.org/~tschmidt/maemo/chinook/maemo-mapper/	01:41
K`zan	Gonna drag the belkin out and see it this thing works with that.	01:41
L0cutusM	good night !	01:42
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GeneralAntilles	Haha	01:44
GeneralAntilles	Prefs dialog makes me laugh, chelli.	01:44
chelli	yes, this is one of the issues :)	01:44
chelli	the other one is that the sand-clock is now shown as it should :)	01:44
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GeneralAntilles	I should probably put my SD card back in. :D	01:45
TPC	chelli, I'll test it if you compile it for OS2008 :P	01:45
TPC	oh wait, that is for OS2008	01:45
GeneralAntilles	Haha	01:45
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chelli	TPC: yes, it is :)	01:46
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TPC	sure, I'll test it right away	01:46
GeneralAntilles	Lot faster.	01:46
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GeneralAntilles	Seriously	01:47
GeneralAntilles	A LOT faster.	01:47
TPC	now to figure out how to restore my old settings from before I reflashed	01:49
GeneralAntilles	backup. ;)	01:49
TPC	I did a backup	01:49
K`zan	Nope, it doesn't work with the belkin either - back in the box it goes, sigh...	01:49
TPC	but I only want to restore maemo mapper settings, not all settings	01:49
rafl	that didn't work for me for 2007 -> 2008. it lost my rss feeds, for example.	01:49
penguinbait	hey anybody have and idea why ubuntu asks for CD everytime I run apt-get	01:50
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TPC	penguinbait, comment out the cd line in sources.list	01:50
rafl	penguinbait: because you have a cdrom:// entry in /etc/apt/sources.list or /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*	01:50
chelli	ok, i guess i will send the patch to the maemo-mapper dev's, it work ok for the moment, they can fix the remaining issues :)	01:50
GeneralAntilles	Check your power saving settings, K`zan.	01:50
GeneralAntilles	Can you actually confirm that it got an IP?	01:50
GeneralAntilles	Open up connection manager.	01:51
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penguinbait	thank you :)	01:51
GeneralAntilles	Manage maps crashes it, chelli.	01:51
penguinbait	it was pissing me off	01:51
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chelli	hmm	01:52
penguinbait	Not a big ubuntu or deb fan, I was always a redhat guy	01:52
K`zan	GeneralAntilles: Maybe not on this one - before I always use a static IP, checking. Did on the Linksys though.	01:52
GeneralAntilles	Check the power savings, too.	01:52
K`zan	Trying to find those saved connections to delete them	01:52
GeneralAntilles	It might be set to 10mw	01:52
K`zan	Lemme find those first.	01:52
chelli	GeneralAntilles: ok, i'll investigate this before sending the patch :)	01:52
GeneralAntilles	Goto lat/long is direct to crash, too.	01:52
chelli	as i said, it's not perfect yet :)	01:53
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GeneralAntilles	Of course. :P	01:53
GeneralAntilles	I'm "testing" :P	01:53
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K`zan	Where are the power settings ?!?	01:54
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GeneralAntilles	Under the connection prefs	01:54
GeneralAntilles	for a saved connection	01:54
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K`zan	LOL, where are the connection prefs, nothing in control panel - yet...	01:55
GeneralAntilles	Connection Manager: App menu -> Tools -> Connectivity settings...	01:55
GeneralAntilles	-> Connections	01:55
GeneralAntilles	Pick the saved connection	01:55
GeneralAntilles	Then -> Edit	01:55
K`zan	Don't have connectivity...	01:55
GeneralAntilles	Next -> Next	01:55
GeneralAntilles	It's a separate application	01:56
GeneralAntilles	Connection Manager	01:56
GeneralAntilles	In the menu of that app	01:56
K`zan	app manager, backup / restore / control panel / connection manager / teach handwiring...	01:56
K`zan	ah	01:56
GeneralAntilles	Under Tools or Utilities	01:56
GeneralAntilles	Don't recall	01:56
GeneralAntilles	Did you test local network transfers?	01:57
GeneralAntilles	Or just internet?	01:57
K`zan	WLAN idle times unlimnited...	01:57
GeneralAntilles	Other	01:57
GeneralAntilles	100mw	01:57
K`zan	Doesn't access LAN either, have a web server on the lan...	01:57
GeneralAntilles	Try connecting to the webserver.	01:57
penguinbait	I am looking for some input on optimizing KDE, currently I do not do anything but run configure, make, make install, or whatever, I have never added any CPU flags, recently lardman mentioned "-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp". My question is when I look in Kinfocenter in KDE, it shows processor features "swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java" Could any of the features be usefull , Please forgive my	01:57
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ol_schoola	missing libgdm3. what's the quickest way to pick that up? i haven't had enough time to get all the repos straight, yet	01:58
K`zan	Nothing with power levels in it that I can find...	01:58
GeneralAntilles	Advanced?	01:58
GeneralAntilles	Did you hit that button?	01:58
GeneralAntilles	Ha	01:59
K`zan	Argh, no advanced button in any of this	01:59
GeneralAntilles	let me open Connection Manager back up	01:59
GeneralAntilles	You didn't follow my steps. :P	01:59
GeneralAntilles	Tools -> Connectivity -> _Connections	01:59
GeneralAntilles	Then the saved connection for your network	02:00
GeneralAntilles	Edit	02:00
GeneralAntilles	next, next	02:00
GeneralAntilles	Advanced	02:00
GeneralAntilles	Other tab.	02:00
K`zan	No advanced - pick a connection and you have: Connection name, type and ...	02:00
K`zan	AH	02:00
chelli	GeneralAntilles: i guess i know where the problem is in the code, but right now i do not know how to fix it, i'll read some porting docs :)	02:00
K`zan	LOL, finally - 100mW	02:01
GeneralAntilles	Good	02:01
GeneralAntilles	Now, MAYBE, try turning power saving off.	02:01
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K`zan	Going to try setting up the connection manually.	02:01
GeneralAntilles	Test that local http server, too, though.	02:01
K`zan	Only choices there are 10mW and 100mW,,,	02:02
penguinbait	is mplayer working in 2008?	02:02
GeneralAntilles	100mw is what you want	02:03
GeneralAntilles	No, penguinbait.	02:03
GeneralAntilles	It has to be ported	02:03
K`zan	cat /etc/resolv.conf	02:03
K`zan	ww	02:04
GeneralAntilles	Well, there IS a port	02:04
TPC	argh	02:04
GeneralAntilles	but it's not optimized	02:04
penguinbait	ic	02:04
TPC	stupid gconf won't let me restore my old maemo mapper settings	02:04
GeneralAntilles	and is, therefor, completely useless compared to the built-in media player	02:04
GeneralAntilles	(which works quite wonderfully for me)	02:04
penguinbait	I am using smplayer in KDE, which is just a frontend to mplayer	02:04
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penguinbait	so I guess I wait :(	02:04
Andy80	GeneralAntilles: you mean that the wifi is more powerfull now?	02:05
penguinbait	I am sure it wont be long :)	02:05
GeneralAntilles	Uh, no, it's always been 100mw	02:05
TPC	mplayer has seeking problems in OS2008	02:05
GeneralAntilles	I just stabbing in the dark. ;)	02:05
TPC	when playing movies	02:05
TPC	otherwise it seems to work fine to me	02:05
TPC	altought I use it for music mostly :P	02:05
GeneralAntilles	I was getting nasty tearing.	02:05
Andy80	GeneralAntilles: always been 100mw but it was set to 10, right?	02:06
penguinbait	I use Juk	02:06
K`zan	Yeah! Setting a static IP (etc.) it works now!	02:06
GeneralAntilles	Well, there you go.	02:06
K`zan	GeneralAntilles: Thanks for your help and especially your patience :-)!	02:06
GeneralAntilles	Pfft	02:06
GeneralAntilles	Patience	02:06
GeneralAntilles	It's the least I can do after what I make others put up with. ;)	02:06
GeneralAntilles	But, sure. :)	02:06
K`zan	No Sir, It is hard somethings with newbies who are dense, APPRECIATE your efforts MUCH!	02:07
K`zan	:-)	02:07
penguinbait	I am wondering wy juk can find all my music is seconds, and I dont know what the heck metalayer-crawler	02:07
penguinbait	is doing	02:07
K`zan	Now I have a headcomputer too LOL	02:07
GeneralAntilles	Looking for women	02:07
GeneralAntilles	and failing miserably.	02:07
GeneralAntilles	metalayer-crawler is very lonely.	02:08
penguinbait	lonely???	02:08
K`zan	LOL, dating these days would scare the hell out of me. As a very good friend once told me - there is no piece of ass worth dying for "...	02:08
GeneralAntilles	So, K`zan, get the repos, install becomeroot and openssh, and enable swap on the internal card in the control panel.	02:08
GeneralAntilles	Then hack up /etc/mce/mce.ini for soft poweroff	02:09
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GeneralAntilles	Yes, lonely, penguinbait, it spends all its time looking for companionship on your SD cards and finding none. ;)	02:09
penguinbait	Why not just have a button that says search, press it after you add some music	02:10
penguinbait	seems crazy to me	02:10
penguinbait	maybe we can write a script to keep it company	02:11
GeneralAntilles	Meh, that's a lot of work.	02:11
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penguinbait	I am looking for some input on optimizing KDE, currently I do not do anything but run configure, make, make install, or whatever, I have never added any CPU flags, recently lardman mentioned "-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp". My question is when I look in Kinfocenter in KDE, it shows processor features "swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java" Could any of the features be usefull , Please forgive my	02:12
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penguinbait	I still need some help with this, where are all the brains>	02:12
GeneralAntilles	Try #kde?	02:14
chelli	GeneralAntilles: can you check http://people.debian.org/~tschmidt/maemo/chinook/maemo-mapper/maemo-mapper_2.0.4.2_armel.deb if it still crashes? (at least manage maps does not crash here anymore) :)	02:14
GeneralAntilles	Sure.	02:14
GeneralAntilles	One sec	02:14
ol_schoola	can do	02:14
penguinbait	I did, I am wondering more about the CPU flags on the n800	02:14
GeneralAntilles	Try compiling both ways and do a side-by-side?	02:14
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that did it, chelli.	02:17
GeneralAntilles	Just fix up the hourglass and the repos dialog now.	02:17
chelli	i'll look at it, but the maemo-mapper-devs will get the current patch in a few minutes :)	02:18
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	02:18
GeneralAntilles	They can fix the rest themselves.	02:18
TPC	chelli, OS2008 port seems to work fine to me	02:18
chelli	GeneralAntilles: what was exactly wrong with the repos dialog? (looks ok here so far)	02:19
chelli	TPC: good to know	02:20
GeneralAntilles	http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/chinookmm.jpg	02:23
chelli	hmm, very interesting :)	02:23
chelli	it looks totally ok here :)	02:23
erich141	chelli: it looks exactly like for General on my n800	02:24
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chelli	from the picture it looks like some really ugly problem with the translations - maybe it just does not occur with german configured on the n800	02:26
GeneralAntilles	I'd test out another one	02:28
GeneralAntilles	but then I'd have to restart. :P	02:28
cesman	does anyone have a direct link to the last OS2007 firmware?	02:29
TPC	chelli, I get a segfault when trying to go into the manage maps dialog	02:29
GeneralAntilles	Running the latest version, TPC?	02:30
chelli	TPC: try the newest version :)	02:30
TPC	oh	02:30
TPC	I didn't notice	02:30
GeneralAntilles	Best to be done, cesman: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800	02:30
chelli	ok, i'll try it with English (USA) right now	02:31
TPC	chelli, I have another weird problem, with every dialog button	02:31
cesman	thanks GeneralAntilles, the site seems to be having issues at the moment	02:31
TPC	but I don't think its related with your port	02:31
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TPC	as I saw it in a few another apps on OS2007	02:31
chelli	ok, now the repos dialog is broken here too :)	02:32
TPC	rather than saying ok it will say something like ecdgbdconfirmationnoteok as the button text	02:32
TPC	I think its because its lacking translations for the locale I'm using	02:33
TPC	and doesn't default to english for some reason	02:33
chelli	TPC: where exactly?	02:33
TPC	in various places, but not everywhere, the "really clear the track?" is one example	02:34
TPC	dialog is*	02:34
chelli	the dialog is ok here - i guess it is really just a problem with the translations (i did not change a single line of code regarding translations, so i guess it might be related to the chinook SDK somehow, i'll investigate) :)	02:36
TPC	here is a screenshot: http://www.tpwch.com/temp/buttonname.png	02:37
ol_schoola	heh. i get an error overlaying the Manage Repo screen, says to contact Last Translator: John Costigan	02:37
disq	Kagu: we have issued an update (1.0.10-2) to fix a crash while playing songs with "track#" info missing in their id3. Should be in your Application Manager update screens soon.	02:37
TPC	I have my device set to use swedish language	02:37
TPC	chelli, anyway, could you drop me a PM if you release any more fixed versions? I'm gonna sleep now, but will be using my GPS tomorrow and don't want to miss any fixed versions if gnuite doesn't make an official build before I leave tomorrow	02:39
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chelli	TPC: yes, no problem	02:39
TPC	ok, thanks	02:40
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lopz	re	02:44
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K`zan	App manager seems to have only the nokia stuff...	02:45
GeneralAntilles	You have to install the extra repos	02:47
GeneralAntilles	http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php	02:47
GeneralAntilles	Well, not "install"	02:47
GeneralAntilles	add	02:47
K`zan	Tanks, will have to do this again in 2008, I guess.	02:47
chelli	GeneralAntilles: i think i found the problem, just a few minutes and the will be a fixed version :)	02:48
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	02:48
GeneralAntilles	Sweet	02:48
K`zan	:-)!	02:48
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, how about OS2008 now, K`zan? :P	02:48
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disq	this huge bookmarks screen is bugging me	02:52
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ol_schoola	Is K`zan booting of internal card yet?	03:00
GeneralAntilles	No	03:00
GeneralAntilles	I wouldn't bother with that for now.	03:00
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ol_schoola	i'm no linux newb but i had a some bumps and bruises the second go-around. hiccups with 2008	03:02
GeneralAntilles	2008 went perfectly fine for me.	03:03
* pupnik starts working on ports again		03:04
K`zan	maemo respositories barf out...	03:04
K`zan	Gonna try it via the web...	03:05
ol_schoola	the flash went fine but i had a devil of a time. threw some new cards in, had a bad one	03:05
ol_schoola	cloning just didn't want to go well for me	03:05
Klaus_Kinski	Do you think it is possible to realize that under N800 too?	03:05
Klaus_Kinski	http://features.engadget.com/2004/07/27/how-to-turn-your-ipod-in-to-a-universal-infrared-remote-control/	03:05
ol_schoola	i've been thinking about the requirements for a	03:06
chelli	GeneralAntilles: http://people.debian.org/~tschmidt/maemo/chinook/maemo-mapper/maemo-mapper_2.0.4.3_armel.deb should fix the repos dialog (its not really a fix, just a workaround - i just disabled translations, but i guess it wont hurt you) :)	03:09
disq	mmapper chinook? mmm-mm i should install that	03:10
ol_schoola	...universal remote control, inteligent programming, like a Pronto	03:10
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chelli	disq: yes, please do that, but keep in mind that is not the official port, so do not blame the mmapper devs for mistakes i made ;-)	03:11
disq	ok no worries	03:11
ol_schoola	Klaus_Kinski: easily done with lirc, a nearby linux/win/mac and an IR blaster/blinkers	03:12
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Klaus_Kinski	ol_schoola ok porting lirc	03:13
Klaus_Kinski	ol_schoola but what with the hardware?	03:13
Anastasia	up on the n800!!!	03:14
erich141	chelli: everything looks good now except for "busy" cursor	03:14
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chelli	disq: the only issues with the port seems that the hourglass is not displayed right and that i had to disable translated texts	03:14
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chelli	erich141: yes, i know	03:14
Anastasia	de k`zan...	03:14
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disq	chelli: did you change the select db file dialog?	03:17
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disq	works fine btw, thanks	03:17
chelli	disq: not really, whats different compared to the bora version?	03:17
disq	IIRC it let you choose the db file (like a open file dialog)	03:18
disq	now you choose the dir and type the filename manually	03:18
ol_schoola	the tablet issues commands to an lircd on your "IR server" via the telnet interface and that instance of lirc drives a serial/usb blaster or blinkers	03:19
chelli	are you sure? (i did not touch the code there, as far as i can tell)	03:19
disq	no i'm not sure. no big deal anyways	03:19
K`zan	maemo.org seems to be overloaded :-). May be a good sign that I am not alone :)	03:19
Klaus_Kinski	ol_schoola ????	03:23
_Monkey	ol_schoola is, like, afk for the next three hours	03:23
ol_schoola	hush _Monkey	03:23
ol_schoola	Klaus_Kinski: lirc works via udp, too, right?	03:24
Klaus_Kinski	dont know	03:25
Klaus_Kinski	but my problem is not the software!	03:26
Klaus_Kinski	N800 has afaik no infrared	03:26
ol_schoola	well, the tablet kicks commands via udp to an intermediary box, say a linux machine running lircd and irxevent. using creartive scripting and a serial IR blaster on that machine, you could control a very large entertainment center.	03:26
ol_schoola	whole house if you got some spare time	03:27
Klaus_Kinski	umm	03:27
Klaus_Kinski	i want to have a remote control in my N800	03:27
ol_schoola	and i'm proposing a method of turning the n800 into a remote control ;)	03:27
Klaus_Kinski	and not a server running... and sending via Wifi commands to lircserver	03:28
Klaus_Kinski	infrared remote control	03:28
ol_schoola	well, without the third party, you'll need a steady hand installing the IR emitter	03:28
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GeneralAntilles	You could also attach an IR blaster to the audio out, no?	03:29
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ol_schoola	GeneralAntilles: good call, I'd forgotten about that	03:30
GeneralAntilles	Seems to me that Griffin sold something like that for the old iPods	03:30
Klaus_Kinski	lol	03:31
Klaus_Kinski	i mentioned that 30 min ago	03:31
Klaus_Kinski	lol[02:05] <Klaus_Kinski> http://features.engadget.com/2004/07/27/how-to-turn-your-ipod-in-to-a-universal-infrared-remote-control/	03:31
Klaus_Kinski	;)	03:34
ol_schoola	GeneralAntilles: erm, not sure if the blaster would work on the audio with lirc per se. there is a alsa-audio-in receive driver, not sure about a transmit driver	03:34
ol_schoola	Klaus_Kinski: now I get it, was on a different wavelength. looks interesting....	03:34
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pupnik	I want a parallel port on my N800	03:35
pupnik	how can i do this?	03:35
Klaus_Kinski	Mails about Total irRemote will go to /dev/null unread.	03:35
Klaus_Kinski	lol	03:35
Klaus_Kinski	http://lirc.org/faq.html	03:35
micky_	what for pupnik?	03:37
GeneralAntilles	Lots of soldering, pupnik?	03:37
ol_schoola	Klaus_Kinski: i guess that answers that	03:40
chelli	ok, the chinook-patches for maemo were just sent to gnuite, so lets hope to see a official port soon :)	03:40
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chelli	s/maemo/maemo-mapper/ :)	03:40
ol_schoola	chelli: working great so far here	03:41
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chelli	i just removed the partly broken version 2.0.4.1 and 2.0.4.2, so that people only use 2.0.4.3 which should fix most of the issues (except the hourglass-problem)	03:43
Klaus_Kinski	ol_schoola http://www.codeproject.com/netcf/PocketBeamer.asp	03:44
chelli	i'll go to sleep now, cu	03:46
pupnik	dpkg-buildpackage: source version is 0.71-0.1	03:46
ol_schoola	hmmm, i've had a lot of exp with manipulation of and capturing IR. i'm kinda leary of that method	03:46
pupnik	IS NOT. i changed version to 0.72-0.1	03:46
pupnik	dabmabit	03:46
disq	chelli: are you compiling the binary with omap2420 specific optimizations?	03:46
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ol_schoola	chelli: ty, have a good one	03:46
disq	the makefile probably has them already though.	03:47
disq	ah he's gone	03:47
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pupnik	oh it gets it from the changelog	03:48
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K`zan	Anyone able to get into maemo.org ?	03:51
ol_schoola	not here	03:52
penguinbait	its been crapping out all day	03:52
ol_schoola	i hope it's a DOS from a flurry of commits	03:53
* konttori_ is depressed. setup vmware, setup the gpg, ssh keys, recreated the changes and dsc files, used debsign to sign them , used dput to publish them to repositories. Got the supposed return values and... nothing. ukmp is not there on the repos.		03:56
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K`zan	Thanks folks, thought it was just me :-).	03:58
konttori_	ahh.. I hope that would somehow be affecting my package acceptance to the repositories.	03:59
K`zan	Gonna go snarf 2008, assuming that would be wise to do now - or should I wait until formal release.	03:59
K`zan	?	03:59
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Klaus_Kinski	when i install mono on N800, can i run programms which i wrote with Visual Studio?	04:01
penguinbait	sorry no clue	04:02
pupnik	i feel soiled just reading that	04:03
K`zan	LOL, no kidding.	04:05
K`zan	Going to wipe now :)	04:05
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Klaus_Kinski	good night	04:08
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penguinbait	were you guys being me and scaring people off	04:10
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penguinbait	:)	04:10
penguinbait	were you guys being mean and scaring people off	04:10
penguinbait	some type of freudian slip	04:11
penguinbait	heh	04:11
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pupnik	from the ITT forums: Crayon Physics Game http://www.kloonigames.com/blog/	04:13
konttori_	Yes!	04:13
konttori_	It's there!	04:13
penguinbait	congrats	04:13
konttori_	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/u/ukmp/	04:13
konttori_	Thanks!	04:13
konttori_	It's been such a long road for me.	04:13
konttori_	eventually, I had to submit to using linux to send the stuff.	04:14
konttori_	oh well. can't have it all	04:14
disq	congrats :)	04:14
konttori_	thanks. Small step for you guys, but big one for me.	04:14
penguinbait	further than Ive gone :)	04:15
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milhouse	anyone seen maemo.org? it seems to have disappeared...	04:15
penguinbait	Can I upload a 400MB deb to garage :)	04:15
Synchronicity	mic	04:15
Synchronicity	milhouse I can't access it either	04:15
konttori_	garage supports up to 8 megs or something like that	04:16
penguinbait	its been in and out all day	04:16
milhouse	glad it's not just me - thanks :)	04:16
konttori_	although, the svn seems to support pretty much anything	04:16
konttori_	I accidentally included my test mp3s on one commit.	04:16
konttori_	40 megs of faulty mp3s. Apparently didn't scare off the server.	04:17
penguinbait	I almost, sent out beta kde with konqueror auto login to internettablettalk.com	04:17
penguinbait	repackaged before anyone got to it	04:17
penguinbait	:)	04:17
penguinbait	some anyone using the internettablettalk.com bookmark would login as penguinbait automatically	04:18
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zerojay	milhouse: I noticed it go down right around 5pm EST.	04:21
zerojay	disq: That previous version of Kagu that I had the weird D-bus failure message when I tried to install... well, despite saying installation failure, it was still installed and still worked.	04:22
milhouse	zerojay: not good as it's not knackered the application maanager which just hangs... if nokia are going to get serious about this with masses of users they need more resilient infra	04:23
milhouse	s/not knackered/now knackered/	04:23
infobot	milhouse meant: zerojay: not good as it's now knackered the application maanager which just hangs... if nokia are going to get serious about this with masses of users they need more resilient infra	04:23
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milhouse	or announce any outages if this outage is planned	04:23
milhouse	at least bugzilla is still working :)	04:23
milhouse	anyone able to confirm what happens in os2008 xterm if you type "exit" at the command line? my xterm stays open with a useless blank window and i have to close the app with "x"	04:24
penguinbait	I hope they are sending out 500 REALLY BIG EMAIL, saying where to use our developer discounts	04:24
milhouse	would make more sense if the app closed (like the old xterm)	04:24
milhouse	penguinbat - nah, it will probably be another enourmous stacktrace	04:25
zerojay	penguinbait: It will be at nokiausa, which will redirect us to letstalk.com.	04:25
zerojay	At least that's what happened when I ordered my N800 direct from Nokia.	04:25
penguinbait	I know this, but I want it to be the reason maemo is down	04:25
konttori_	millhouse: we were not able to get that bug fixed for xterm on time.	04:25
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zerojay	penguinbait: Hehe. Me too.	04:26
konttori_	sorry about that. also, same thing applies to ctrl-d	04:26
milhouse	knotorri - so it's already logged? cool... should i bother opening it in bugzilla anyway ?	04:26
zerojay	milhouse: Want to possibly see something weird?	04:26
disq	zerojay: how weird? uh	04:26
milhouse	zerojay: sure why not... :)	04:26
konttori_	anyway, if you have good suggestions, let me know. I'm managing the project still.	04:26
acydlord	milhouse, xterm closed fine for me when i exited	04:26
milhouse	knotorri - my only suggestion would be for it to close, and for the "close" menu to include an extra menu item "close this window" as per the browser as multiple xterm sessions are possible but the only "close" option is "close all windows"	04:27
milhouse	i'll open a bug and make those suggestions	04:27
konttori_	xterm source is in garage in exactly the shape that you have on the device (ok, there are bug fixes as well)	04:27
zerojay	milhouse: Lock your N800. After it dims, hit the power key to make the screen come back on with the message "now press []	04:27
acydlord	maybe mine closing correctly was a bug =x	04:27
milhouse	as they're kind of related	04:27
zerojay	milhouse: Then just repeatedly press anywhere on the screen.	04:27
pupnik	Serge / ssvb fixes critical memory corruption bug in all OS2006 firmwares	04:27
zerojay	milhouse: The N800 can't decide which version of the "press power then []" warning to use.	04:28
pupnik	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11824 memory bug fix for IT2006	04:28
zerojay	Keeps switching from the old two line version to the single line and back with each button press.	04:28
disq	zerojay: i think it's a feature	04:28
zerojay	disq: It's inconsistant. Bug.	04:28
disq	zerojay: it's consistent. only switches between the two, in order. that's consistency	04:28
zerojay	Okay, you got me there. :)	04:29
penguinbait	did anyone else notice that when you lock the screen it does not turn it off, it dims as normal?	04:29
milhouse	zerojay - fck it! my buttons have gone AWOL again, cheers! ;)	04:29
zerojay	lol	04:29
zerojay	Sorry, dude.	04:29
zerojay	penguinbait: Turns it off here.	04:29
penguinbait	hmmanyone else?	04:29
milhouse	it's locked and i can't unlock it!!! kontorri - any ideas if this is logged/fixed etc.? lock the device and it forgets it has button making power+d-pad centre to unlock impossible	04:29
disq	zerojay: it always starts with the two-line version. if a warning is already present on the screen, it shows the other one	04:30
zerojay	penguinbait: Well, dims and then turns off.	04:30
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penguinbait	yes mine too, it used to go off immediately	04:30
disq	softpoweroff won't lock the screen though. wish it did	04:30
penguinbait	If I set my display to not turn off for an hour, this is goin to be a problem	04:30
penguinbait	perhaps its because its not meant for this hardware??	04:31
milhouse	xterm isn't listed in applications on bugzilla :(	04:31
zerojay	File a bug to add it.	04:31
milhouse	thanks :)	04:31
penguinbait	can you post a bug for software you are not supposed to have?	04:31
milhouse	will probably appear once OS2008 is launched officially	04:32
konttori_	milhouse, file the bug in garage project	04:32
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milhouse	ok kontorri	04:32
_Monkey	kontorri are you in?!? :)	04:32
konttori_	If you have the time / interest, you can fix the bug yourself as well.	04:32
zerojay	Well, considering the fact that there's been zero response about the leak (that I've seen), I wouldn't think they're too worried about it.	04:32
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konttori_	The most current xterm / vte versions are right there in garage (in case you can access it some day).	04:33
milhouse	of course that will probably have to wait until maemo.org returns...	04:33
zerojay	Found it funny that someone had the balls to have a post about how to update right on Planet.	04:33
disq	zerojay yeah i noticed that too :)	04:33
konttori_	gbtv announced it as well	04:33
konttori_	i think that was pretty cool	04:33
milhouse	now how do i file this buttons bug - i'm not really sure how to trigger it as nobody else seems to have it	04:33
milhouse	ooh garage is up	04:33
zerojay	A nice 50/50 battle over buried/loved too.	04:33
zerojay	milhouse: What buttons bug?	04:34
penguinbait	the developers should have already had access to some sort of beta anyway	04:34
milhouse	when i lock my device, it forgets it has any buttons	04:34
milhouse	so i can't unlock it	04:34
penguinbait	development should be ahead of the curve	04:34
milhouse	need to reboot it	04:34
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milhouse	garage is v. slow	04:34
zerojay	I've had that happen to me once or twice on ITOS2007.	04:34
milhouse	never had it happen to me on 2007 but it's a regular occurrence on 2008	04:35
zerojay	I've never had it happen on 2008.	04:35
milhouse	knotorri - is this the link for the 2008 xterm? https://garage.maemo.org/projects/osso-xterm	04:35
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milhouse	aha... i didn't reboot it and left it along for a few minutes and now the buttons are working again so i could unlock it... wierd.	04:36
konttori_	milhouse: yeah	04:36
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milhouse	thanks	04:37
konttori_	so, if you want the latest and greatest, take a look into the osso-xterm and vte folders	04:37
konttori_	should be easy to compile	04:37
milhouse	isn't it going to be a bit confusing having some items of the firmware (such as xterm) tracked in garage and the remaining items in bugzilla?	04:37
milhouse	kontorri - that's well out of my capabilities! :)	04:38
konttori_	yeah. I can ask for the xterm to be added to the public bugzilla. Just thought that if you'd like to report it now, you could do it in garage	04:38
milhouse	ah i see - ok i'm adding it now to garage can cut&paste later once xterm is added to bugzilla	04:39
konttori_	sounds good.	04:39
milhouse	in fact i'll add one bug (not closing) and one enhancement (close this window)	04:39
disq	zerojay: do you remember the dbus error message? something about machine-id maybe?	04:40
zerojay	disq: No, but I pasted it here. You should be able to find it in the #maemo IRC logs.	04:40
disq	oh ok. and this was 1.0.10, right?	04:40
zerojay	No.	04:40
zerojay	1.0.9	04:41
disq	then it's normal. fixed in 1.0.10 which we released tonight :P	04:41
milhouse	shouldn't we have the IT OS operating systems added to the garage list of Operating Systems when reporting bugs?	04:41
zerojay	Yep. I tried updating and it wouldn't work. Removing .9 and then installing .10 worked fine.	04:41
zerojay	milhouse: It is in the list in Bugzilla.	04:41
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milhouse	not in garage	04:41
zerojay	I would say that's reasonable enough.	04:41
konttori_	we had the plan for the close window for a long time ( at least a few weeks), but we had to drop it at some point. I think it's commented out in the code, so if you compile it, you should be able to enable it easily	04:41
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zerojay	milhouse: Another bug to file. :)	04:42
milhouse	hehe	04:42
disq	zerojay: that's because you installed 1.0.9 from the bora repository probably. had the same thing here too. app-mgr now apparently keeps track of which repository you installed a file before upgrading to prevent corruptions	04:42
zerojay	I'd file it myself, but I spent all day with my eyeballs glued to my company's bugzilla and I'm just not in the mood right now. ;)	04:42
zerojay	disq: Yep.	04:43
milhouse	quite a few of the drop downs in the "new bug" form on garage need some attention (Hardware: DEC, HP, SGI, Sun!) and Component (Cog A, Cog B) - bizarre	04:43
zerojay	Some of those are Bugzilla defaults.	04:43
milhouse	yeah just saying they could do with some cleaning up	04:45
milhouse	would have thought we'd be in better shape by now	04:45
elb	so I guess it's odd that maemo.org doesn't load at all, for me, then	04:45
milhouse	not odd at all	04:46
milhouse	:)	04:46
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elb	oh?	04:46
elb	I just flipped over here and saw people talking about garage (which I cannot load, either)	04:46
elb	and assumed that meant it worked ;-)	04:46
milhouse	garage is loading very slowly	04:46
milhouse	bugzilla is fine	04:47
milhouse	maemo.org is knackered	04:47
elb	ahh, I see	04:47
zerojay	elb: Hey.	04:47
elb	no doubt I would have learned this if I read more scrollback :-)	04:47
elb	zerojay: hi	04:47
milhouse	dunno why, a moose probably sat on the cable. or something equally bizarre and unlikely.	04:48
elb	a squirrel chewed through the cable that connected the building my office is in and the rest of the world, a few months ago	04:48
elb	AND the redundant backup fiber	04:49
elb	it sucked	04:49
zerojay	In Ohio a few months ago, there was a big fibre outage.	04:49
rhykin	milhouse: site not working? :/	04:49
zerojay	Turns out it was because of a drive-by shooting.	04:49
elb	someone shot a fiber?	04:49
zerojay	Not on purpose.	04:50
zerojay	But yeah.	04:50
elb	no doubt	04:50
milhouse	elb - someone actually did that a while ago, pumped it full of shotgun pellets (can't remember where, somewhere in the states)	04:50
milhouse	here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/22/gunplay_triggers_net_slowdown/	04:50
elb	I know there was a problem a while back with some kids shooting out power lines somewhere in the frozen north of the US	04:50
milhouse	obviously tin cans where in short supply at the time	04:51
elb	hah Cleveland	04:51
elb	yeah taht's the same story, more or less	04:51
elb	except interwebz instead of power lines	04:51
elb	people who intentionally damage public property should be punished severely :-P	04:52
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GeneralAntilles	No kidding.	04:53
elb	severe damage to 2/3 mile of buried cable ... that has to be intentional	04:54
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Didn't like what you found on Jablet? ;)	04:54
elb	I don't see how it's even possible, it must not have been buried more than a trivial distance	04:55
GeneralAntilles	Hmm, zerojay?	04:55
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: I'm just kidding. I noticed that you registered, that's all.	04:55
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	04:55
GeneralAntilles	Registered	04:55
GeneralAntilles	then I thought about moving all my contacts and changing Jabber servers. . .	04:56
zerojay	That's what the server calls it. ;P	04:56
milhouse	elb: assuming they were buried in the first place, could have been suspended (to save money)	04:56
elb	milhouse: the article that references says the technicians "pulled up" the cable	04:56
milhouse	ah right	04:56
GeneralAntilles	I'll get around to it eventually. :D	04:56
elb	so either it is mistaken (entirely possible), they are using bizarre terminology (possible), or it was buried	04:56
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Well, you know your contacts on the different IM services will come with you, right? The only ones you'll need to readd are Jabber contacts.	04:56
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, good point.	04:57
elb	the media is nearly incompetent to cover anything, but as soon as it says "gun" they become entirely incompetent	04:57
GeneralAntilles	Still, changing my login info on the client . . . :P	04:57
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: I know some older servers (including the one on Dreamhost) don't bring them across, which sucks.	04:57
rhykin	since the website is down, does anyone know where i could get directions to install the 3.2/4.0 maemo sdk?	04:58
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Let me know if you need any help.. adding transports or whatever.	04:58
GeneralAntilles	Will do.	04:58
zerojay	And now to get to work on this Chumby thing.	04:58
milhouse	elb: no, the register article doesnn't say technicians "pulled up" the cables, it says the technicians "pulled" the cables (ie. they were removed)	04:58
elb	milhouse: another article said "pulled up"	04:59
* elb digs through his history		04:59
milhouse	oh right, sorry thought we were both reading the same article (the one i linked) :)	04:59
elb	"TeliaSonera, which lost the northern leg of its US network to the cut, said that the outage began in the early hours of yesterday morning, GMT. When technicians pulled up the affected cable, it appeared to have been shot." <-- http://www.techworld.com/networking/news/index.cfm?newsid=9856	04:59
milhouse	dunno then, seems bizarre for somene to be able to shoot such a length of buried cable	04:59
elb	as I said, the article that the one you posted references says they pulled it up	05:00
zerojay	I'm liking getting forum reply notices so much more from Jabber than by e-mail. So glad I finished that.	05:00
elb	milhouse: particularly given that bullet penetration into soil is absolutely abysmal -- and they allude that it might have been shot, which is even worse (less than an inch for any but the largest shot)	05:00
milhouse	yeah, you'd have to be pretty determined... and for nobody to notice as well (it could have been in the middle of nowhere I suppose)	05:01
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fer	hello	05:02
fer	I'm having trouble to access maemo.org , is there a problem in there?	05:02
elb	there's plenty of places between Cleveland and Montville where no one would have noticed ;-)	05:02
elb	there are also plenty of places where lots of people would have noticed, though, so who knows	05:03
elb	freakish things happen all the time, I guess	05:03
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jott	http://open.neurostechnology.com/node/1020 hm this is interesting	05:07
rhykin	:(	05:12
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pupnik	homeless guys under a bridge in minneapolis took out a fiber cable by setting a fire to keep warm	05:17
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rhykin	im confused	05:22
rhykin	what is: http://test.maemo.org/	05:22
GeneralAntilles	Looks like the old maemo site.	05:22
rhykin	rgr	05:25
GeneralAntilles	Ha . . . I still remember the old Application Catalog wiki page.	05:26
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GeneralAntilles	It was kinda nice have a one-page overview of all the software available for the platform	05:28
GeneralAntilles	(though a bit sad, too)	05:28
K`zan	Sigh, can't import my bookmarks :-/.	05:33
fer	I'm upgrading my old 770 to the latest 2007os	05:33
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fer	does anyone know if skype or rtcomm SIP works?	05:33
fer	(on the 770 of course)	05:33
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K`zan	I just loaded some of my music to the internal card, how do I get the media player to find it, I can't find anything - like it expects it on the internal RAM?!?	05:43
zerojay	No.	05:43
zerojay	Just copy it over to the card.	05:43
zerojay	That's all.	05:43
zerojay	It will run metacrawler to find your music.	05:43
K`zan	Did, stock stuff is all that is showing.	05:44
K`zan	Ok, lemme close and restart it.	05:44
zerojay	Try removing the card and putting it back in.	05:44
penguinbait	I ran a girl script earlier to keep metalayer busy	05:44
K`zan	OK, lemme unplug and shut everything down and turn off...	05:45
zerojay	A girl script?	05:45
penguinbait	thats probably why :)	05:45
penguinbait	I guess you had to be here earlier :)	05:45
K`zan	Can I leave apps open when I remove/re-install the internal card?	05:45
zerojay	shouldn't make a difference	05:46
penguinbait	GeneralAntilles> Yes, lonely, penguinbait, it spends all its time looking for companionship on your SD cards and finding none. ;)	05:46
K`zan	ok, done, lets see if it finds the music directory now.	05:46
penguinbait	we didnt want it to be lonely anymore :)	05:47
GeneralAntilles	Blind date for metalayer-crawler?	05:47
K`zan	Nope, still only finds the stock stuff :-/. My music isn't going to fit on the internal memory :-(.	05:47
K`zan	Well, in small chunks anyway.	05:47
GeneralAntilles	Give it a minute	05:47
zerojay	K`zan: What tablet do you have?	05:47
penguinbait	hes a pleaser, it may take a while ;)	05:47
K`zan	n800	05:48
K`zan	2007, latest	05:48
K`zan	Library appears to be fixed in internal memory :-(.	05:48
zerojay	It's not.	05:48
K`zan	Rather useless...	05:48
GeneralAntilles	metalayer-crawler will find media anywhere.	05:48
K`zan	I see no way to change it?!?	05:48
zerojay	And it's not.	05:48
zerojay	There's no reason to change anything because it indexes both of your SD cards.	05:49
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K`zan	128M for system and apps doesn't leave much for things like music...	05:49
GeneralAntilles	K`zan, you aren't listening	05:49
GeneralAntilles	it indexes all memory for media files.	05:49
zerojay	Because that's what the SD card slots are for.	05:49
GeneralAntilles	Just give it a minute.	05:49
K`zan	GeneralAntilles: What am I missing.	05:49
K`zan	It has been sitting here for a bit now while I was looking through the menu...	05:50
zerojay	The number of songs listed doesn't update on its own.	05:50
zerojay	You have to kind of switch categories and if you go back, you'll notice the number's changed.	05:50
zerojay	K`zan: What format are your music files anyways?	05:50
K`zan	mp3s	05:50
K`zan	All there in file manager...	05:51
zerojay	Open media player.	05:52
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K`zan	OK, closed and re-launched - up.	05:52
zerojay	Go to the library.	05:52
K`zan	Comes up in library.	05:53
zerojay	what comes up in library?	05:53
K`zan	Media player	05:53
_Monkey	rumour has it Media player is the only app running	05:53
zerojay	Open Music.	05:53
K`zan	No, got xchat and fbreader	05:53
K`zan	1 artist	05:53
zerojay	If you double click the songs in file manager, will it play them?	05:54
K`zan	dunno, lemme open that and give it try.	05:54
K`zan	That worked!	05:55
K`zan	Brought it up in media player.	05:55
K`zan	Needs a bit more bass :)	05:55
zerojay	Did you do anything stupid like create a recursive link on your memory cards or in your home directory?	05:56
K`zan	No Sir. Installed the SD cards and formatted them and used USB to this box to transfer stuff I wanted (including music) to the cards.	05:56
K`zan	At this point I have no idea how to create something like that :).	05:57
zerojay	Have you done any sort of out of the ordinary changes to your tablet?	05:58
K`zan	No, just got it this afternoon, installed xchat, fbreader and got wireless working.	05:58
zerojay	very odd.	05:59
K`zan	reverse order.	05:59
K`zan	Something is weird... Stuff in playlist but it is all null	05:59
zerojay	Maybe your mp3s are badly corrupted or just plain weird.	06:00
GeneralAntilles	Reboot couldn't hurt.	06:00
zerojay	Yes, reboot.	06:00
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K`zan	How does one hold ctl-alt-del on this thing?	06:01
zerojay	Hold down the power button for a few seconds.	06:01
Robot101	open the back, and do a patent-pending nokia flick to make the battery fall out (hit the device against your cupped hand)	06:01
K`zan	NOKIA	06:01
GeneralAntilles	Ha	06:02
GeneralAntilles	seriously	06:02
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zerojay	Robot101: You don't have to do anything but pull it out.	06:02
GeneralAntilles	Need fingernails for that. ;)	06:02
zerojay	No, you don't.	06:02
zerojay	I don't have them.	06:02
Robot101	pull? this sounds like I have ti o involve my fingers. believe me, this is the quickest way. I can do it in about half a second. :)	06:02
zerojay	chew them off all the time. :)	06:02
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, really, the flick is beautiful.	06:03
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zerojay	Robot101: If you don't mind subjecting your tablet to the shock, sure.	06:03
K`zan	Nice blue behind the keys	06:03
K`zan	pad	06:03
Robot101	my tablets are all fine :)	06:03
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, it's not a running hard drive, zerojay. :P	06:04
zerojay	We have a few phones at work that have died because of that.	06:04
GeneralAntilles	K`zan, OS2008 actually makes that useful, too.	06:04
K`zan	The light?	06:04
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	06:05
GeneralAntilles	For e-mails, IMs, calls and such.	06:05
Robot101	these phones sound weak compared to the might of the nokia tablet hardware :)	06:05
GeneralAntilles	That tablets are disturbingly strong.	06:05
GeneralAntilles	Just wish the backpanel on the N800 weren't so loose.	06:06
K`zan	Cleaning up email, changed it to n800 and server and now can't change it back :-/.	06:06
zerojay	We killed a Sony Ericsson within a week that way.	06:06
GeneralAntilles	email is horrible on the ITs	06:06
zerojay	I still don't see what's so bad about it.	06:07
K`zan	Ah, OK, got it now, have to open it to just delete from n800	06:07
Robot101	zerojay: see? sony ericsson. weak. :)	06:07
zerojay	Robot101: It's one of about 20 phones that have died because of people doing that at work.	06:08
zerojay	Robot101: Across all manufacturers.	06:08
Robot101	sounds like the phones crash too much too :D	06:09
zerojay	If you want a great phone for that, get a SE W910i from Orange (French operator).	06:10
zerojay	They were all recalled because some of them had a problem where exactly 10 seconds into any call, the phone would reboot.	06:10
Robot101	stunning	06:10
zerojay	Very.	06:10
GeneralAntilles	How does that even get released?	06:11
GeneralAntilles	Do they do Q&A and just say, "Well . . . we'll fix it in the recall"	06:11
zerojay	I wonder that same thing each and every time some phone comes out with a stupid error.	06:11
zerojay	Like this one Samsung.	06:11
K`zan	OK, looks like the music stuff got found now.	06:12
K`zan	So, if I USB stuff to the card I have to shutdown and pull the battery and card and restart?	06:12
K`zan	Or was this just a fluke?!?	06:12
zerojay	All fillrect top and bottoms have 1 subtracted.	06:13
zerojay	So if you make an unfilled rectangle one pixel thick all the way around, you just get two bars, not a rectangle.	06:13
GeneralAntilles	It was probably just taking its time indexing	06:14
zerojay	K`zan: Shouldn't ever need to be done that way.	06:14
K`zan	OK, that makes me feel better :-)! Thanks!	06:14
GeneralAntilles	You really don't EVER need to take the battery out unless the device is hard crashed.	06:14
GeneralAntilles	Which, even then, the hardware watchdog should take care of that.	06:14
K`zan	Other than that, everything seemed fine.	06:14
K`zan	80M of music might take a bit to index.	06:15
captlloyd	So what's everyone think (that's tried it) of OS2008 vs 2007?	06:15
GeneralAntilles	It's exceptional.	06:15
K`zan	Is 2008 formally released or is it just a beta?	06:15
GeneralAntilles	It's neither	06:15
captlloyd	AFIK its just been leaked	06:15
GeneralAntilles	It's sort of a leak.	06:15
K`zan	Looks formal, but I thought it was to be released only when the 810 came out.	06:16
GeneralAntilles	But that's not really accurate, either.	06:16
pupnik	two weeks...	06:16
GeneralAntilles	The best way to describe it, would be that it's the firmware image for another device that's been mildly finessed to go onto the N800.	06:16
K`zan	Patience is a virtue, patience is a virtue, patience is a virtue...	06:16
captlloyd	Anyone know anything about this thing where when its locked the keys stop working?	06:17
GeneralAntilles	Just install it. ;)	06:17
captlloyd	I'll supposedly have my N810 Monday or Tuesday after next.	06:17
captlloyd	I don't have anything to put it on yet	06:17
GeneralAntilles	The version that's going to ship on the N810 can't possibly be the version that's on maemo.org right now.	06:18
zerojay	No.	06:18
GeneralAntilles	Inside sources have said as much.	06:18
zerojay	I also don't recommend n00bs install it.	06:18
K`zan	I heard that :)	06:18
zerojay	They'll be far too disappointed by the lack of apps.	06:18
K`zan	19 and counting!	06:19
captlloyd	Do you think that apps for 2007 will come over to 2008 pretty quickly?	06:19
zerojay	Depends on the developers.	06:19
GeneralAntilles	They'll be coming in a deluge over the next 2 weeks.	06:19
pupnik	captlloyd: says who? How are you getting it?	06:19
captlloyd	http://www.mobilecityonline.com/wireless/store/productdetail.asp?productid=22832	06:20
GeneralAntilles	maemo mapper is all but officially ported.	06:20
GeneralAntilles	So there's one off the list.	06:20
captlloyd	Yeah, mapper is one I really wanna use	06:20
erich141	fbreader is officially ported and works perfectly so far on os2008	06:21
K`zan	How does one change the category of an app?	06:21
GeneralAntilles	The only stuff I'm really missing are the games.	06:21
GeneralAntilles	control panel	06:21
GeneralAntilles	navigation	06:21
GeneralAntilles	organize	06:21
K`zan	Thanks!	06:22
fer	hey there..	06:24
captlloyd	I mostly wanna use mine for IRC, basic web surfing and IM. It'll be so awesome to not have to set up with a laptop to do that.	06:24
fer	anyone knows if videocenter is available for 2008os ?	06:24
GeneralAntilles	Not yet.	06:24
zerojay	Yeah, I'm a little bummed about that.	06:25
fer	I instaled os2007_hacker_edition on my old 770...	06:25
fer	but skype didn't work...	06:25
GeneralAntilles	I never really got into video center.	06:26
fer	It installed fine... and starts.. but crashes a sec later...	06:26
zerojay	770 doesn't have the horsepower for Skype.	06:26
Robot101	it'd probably work fine, but the client tests your device ID to see if you have an N800	06:28
Robot101	it doesn't even work on prototype non-sales N800s	06:28
zerojay	Like I said, it doesn't have the power to run it anyways.	06:29
fer	ok then..	06:30
zerojay	Not in real-time, anyways.	06:30
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captlloyd	The flash in the N810, the one sites list as 256MB, what is that used for? The OS image? Swap Space?	06:31
fer	how about rtcomm?	06:32
fer	It installed.. but had some error...	06:32
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fer	but now I do get an option to create a sip account..	06:33
zerojay	rtcomm on the 770?	06:33
fer	yes	06:33
zerojay	Wouldn't suggest it.	06:33
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Robot101	fabv: I'd be interested to hear if you have problems	06:33
fer	should work... as gtalk works..	06:33
Robot101	fabv: dang you tricked my tab-completion :)	06:33
Robot101	fer: ^^	06:33
fer	Robot101, :p	06:36
pupnik	zerojay: that's odd - compressing and playing back audio should not overtax the 770	06:38
zerojay	pupnik: It doesn't.	06:39
zerojay	pupnik: But doing both in real-time with proprietary codecs do.	06:40
pupnik	boo for skype coders then	06:41
* pupnik tries to get xkbd working with fullscreen sdl apps		06:42
GeneralAntilles	Alright, zerojay, I'm setup on jablet. ;)	06:44
K`zan	jablet?!?	06:45
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Cool. :)	06:46
fer	WTF !!!!	06:46
GeneralAntilles	http://jablet.net/	06:46
K`zan	tnx checking	06:46
fer	the browser on the 770 is faster than the one on the n800 !!	06:46
zerojay	K`zan: Jablet's a site I'm working on offering services to tablet users.	06:46
Robot101	zerojay: skype doesn't use proprietary codecs	06:46
fer	testing in a side by side comparison...	06:46
fer	770 has 2007 hacked edition... (opera)	06:47
GeneralAntilles	I call boloney. ;)	06:47
zerojay	Robot101: I want whatever you've been smoking.	06:47
fer	n800 has 2008os...	06:47
Robot101	ok, let me rephrase, they don't use /software/ codecs so the fact they're proprietary is irrelevant	06:47
Robot101	yes they are proprietary	06:47
Robot101	but they're implemented on the DSP	06:47
K`zan	zerojay: RR, will check it out here soon, bookmarked	06:47
Robot101	and the 770's DSP is broadly similar in capability to the N800s	06:47
Robot101	and certainly has iLBC which skype can use	06:47
zerojay	K`zan: We're currently offering Jabber (with connections to all the major IM programs) for free which you can use with the built-in Jabber client. No need to download and install Pidgin.	06:48
Robot101	(but not G.729 which was new in the mid-year OS 2007 release)	06:48
zerojay	E-mail too.	06:48
zerojay	But we've got big plans for all sorts of other services.	06:48
zerojay	All free.	06:48
Robot101	but my gut feeling is that if it would run, skype would probably work on the 770, but maybe with decreased voice quality because it'd be more susceptible to scheduling blips	06:49
Robot101	the skype client on the N800 doesn't use that much CPU%, but when some bug was redrawing the whole screen of the UI the audio went totally to crap	06:50
zerojay	K`zan: In the future, we're looking into doing stuff such as hosting blogs, having a sort of "my online life" pulling stuff from various RSS feeds.. sort of like you can do with Jaiku.	06:52
zerojay	Your latest played tracks from Last.Fm, latest pictures added to Flickr, latest blog posts, etc...	06:52
GeneralAntilles	Anybody notice that Browse buttons have a tendency to nuke the GUI under OS2008?	06:52
zerojay	What browse buttons?	06:52
Robot101	maybe you could make a maemo UI for mugshot :)	06:53
GeneralAntilles	Avatar for Jabber, etc.	06:53
GeneralAntilles	Background select	06:53
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Never once had that problem.	06:53
zerojay	Robot101: Mugshot's a photo service, right?	06:53
Robot101	no, it's a meta-thingy like you describe	06:54
GeneralAntilles	Ugh, there's number 3	06:54
Robot101	a web service which lets you pull together blogs, last.fm, flickr, etc	06:54
GeneralAntilles	can't pick an avatar for Jablet	06:54
zerojay	Didn't know about it.	06:54
Robot101	and they have a windows/gnome client to give you notifications	06:54
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Odd. Never had a problem with it.. and I just changed my background maybe 20 times today.	06:54
Robot101	and you can share links and jump into chat rooms about popular links	06:54
GeneralAntilles	Weirdness	06:54
Robot101	its a bit odd, not sure why redhat spent as much engineer time on it as they did	06:55
Robot101	practicing or something	06:55
elb	word Robot101	06:55
Robot101	elb: word	06:56
elb	telepathizing maemo?	06:56
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Robot101	elb: the in-built stuff is built on telepathy	06:56
zerojay	Heh.. right on the front page is the Maemo group on Mugshot.	06:56
elb	Robot101: nice	06:57
Robot101	elb: a significant part of my salary for the past 2 years has been from Nokia	06:57
elb	nicer	06:57
* elb awaits sales of his maemo device		06:58
Robot101	http://www.collabora.co.uk/16/press-release-2	06:58
Robot101	:)	06:58
Robot101	elb: getting and N810?	06:58
Robot101	s/and/an/	06:58
infobot	Robot101 meant: elb: getting an N810?	06:58
Robot101	s/infobot//	06:59
elb	yeah	06:59
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Sorry, not many people in the room right now. ;)	06:59
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Robot101	elb: they're very nice pieces of kit, the keyboard makes a big difference, and the size is now small enough to be pocketed without antoo much bother	07:02
elb	and the battery life continues to creep up toward acceptable ;-)	07:03
fer	has anyone here actually seen the display of the new n810?	07:04
fer	how does it compare with the n800 or 770?	07:04
fer	(I have both 770 and n800 and find then slightly different...)	07:04
fer	(770 has a warmer sharper colours)	07:05
fer	(n800 has cooler (blue) colours... and not as sharp as the 770...)	07:05
fer	what do you think?	07:05
GeneralAntilles	N800's display is leaps and bounds better than the 770's	07:06
fer	GeneralAntilles, what do yo umea?	07:06
fer	mean	07:06
GeneralAntilles	Exactly what I said.	07:06
GeneralAntilles	Colors are better, clarity is better	07:06
GeneralAntilles	The touchscreen is better.	07:06
fer	I find the 770 screen much sharper..	07:06
GeneralAntilles	Probably an illusion of the dithering from the touchscreen.	07:07
fer	i do have the original screen protector on my n800, though...	07:07
fer	and the 770 doesn't have one at all..	07:08
zerojay	Er..	07:08
zerojay	That's not supposed to be there in use.	07:08
zerojay	That's just something flimsy to protect the screen during shipping.	07:08
Robot101	original? as in, the piece of crap it ships with? take it off and marvel at what the screen's meant to look like	07:08
GeneralAntilles	Ha	07:08
fer	:)	07:08
Robot101	that thing scratches and marks. the real screen doesn't	07:08
GeneralAntilles	I left mine on for 6 months.	07:08
GeneralAntilles	Until I got 'round to buying a real one.	07:09
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fer	ok..	07:10
* fer logs off...		07:10
Robot101	the screens don't scratch that easily anyway, I dunno what people are so scared of	07:10
* captlloyd pokes fer		07:10
elb	I never put any sort of protector on my Palm	07:10
fer	RobAtWork, I'll tell you what... other people.. who want to "try" your tablet...	07:11
elb	I also didn't chew on my stylus or try to use an emory board for input	07:11
elb	maybe these differ from common habits	07:11
fer	RobAtWork, and end up making a big scratch right on the middle of the screen !	07:11
Robot101	I don't hand my tablet to people who would do such a thing	07:11
Robot101	the stylus doesn't scratch the screen	07:11
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Robot101	I never put any protectors on anything, I just maintain a key / phone pocket exclusion :)	07:12
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GeneralAntilles	Ha	07:12
GeneralAntilles	Amen to that, Robot101.	07:12
GeneralAntilles	Electronics on the right and keys and Leatherman on the left. ;)	07:12
elb	hah	07:15
* elb attempts to come up with a sorting scheme for his pocket/belt/etc. junk and fails		07:16
K`zan	Going to have to figure out someway to get my bookmarks from firefox in. Something about them the n800 browser doesn't like :-(.	07:16
elb	my equipment damage problems are more subtle than keys -> cell phone	07:17
elb	it's things like flashlight bezel in left front pocket -> cell pouch on belt	07:17
elb	or * -> {pants,shirt}	07:18
K`zan	If I can get fbreader to pick up all my ebooks, the Zire31 goes in the trash...	07:18
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GeneralAntilles	Ha	07:18
GeneralAntilles	Don't throw it out!	07:18
elb	isn't there a palm emulator?	07:18
GeneralAntilles	There is.	07:18
K`zan	Aha! Make a web page out of my firefox bookmarks and use that to link out of.	07:18
_San_	Hello.	07:19
GeneralAntilles	Hi, _San_.	07:19
K`zan	The digitizer on the Z31 is shit, was on the last one too. Never stays in calibration long.	07:19
_San_	What is this place?	07:20
GeneralAntilles	zerojay, the transport for AIM is much nicer than the one from netlab.cz. Actually supports away status and UTF usernames. :)	07:20
captlloyd	this is IRC _San_	07:20
_San_	Yea, but what are you guys talking about here?	07:20
GeneralAntilles	This is the official room for the Nokia Internet Tablets (770, N800, N810)	07:20
_San_	Wtf is that?	07:20
GeneralAntilles	Well, more specifically, the maemo platform	07:20
GeneralAntilles	maemo.org	07:20
GeneralAntilles	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N800	07:21
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GeneralAntilles	Pft	07:21
captlloyd	BTW, is maemo.org down?	07:21
elb	I love users like that	07:21
K`zan	captlloyd: maemo.org has been flakey since I started looking at it and it has been pretty much down all day today.	07:22
GeneralAntilles	It's been incredibly flacky today, captlloyd.	07:22
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Yep, that's part of the reason I chose the server I did and didn't want to go with someone else serving it for us.	07:22
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Dunno if display pictures are working on the tablets... but I think a fix for those is coming soon.	07:23
GeneralAntilles	No worries	07:23
GeneralAntilles	The little OS2008 generic dude looks good. :)	07:23
zerojay	hah	07:24
GeneralAntilles	OS2008 is so lickable.	07:26
zerojay	It's incredible.	07:26
GeneralAntilles	It's all Apple-y goodness.	07:26
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zerojay	...uh.. no.	07:27
GeneralAntilles	Hahaha	07:27
GeneralAntilles	The new Jabber-client icons remind me very much of iChat. ;)	07:27
K`zan	As soon as fbreader is ported, I'll upgrade :).	07:27
GeneralAntilles	It's out.	07:27
K`zan	Sigh, now I need to figure out how to do that :-). Guess I can install the installer in a wincrap vm.	07:28
K`zan	Fortunately I didn't do a lot to 2007 :).	07:28
GeneralAntilles	Why windows?	07:29
K`zan	In the 9 hours I have had it :)	07:29
GeneralAntilles	The best installer is on Linux. ;)	07:29
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K`zan	That is what all the n800 stuff is for :-( (/me HATES wincrap).	07:29
GeneralAntilles	(well, excluding Jaffa's excellent flasher)	07:29
GeneralAntilles	The only thing you need desktop-side is the flasher	07:29
GeneralAntilles	which is available for Linux and OS X in a CLI form.	07:30
K`zan	Yes, but I don't normall run wincrap	07:30
K`zan	Ah, even BETTER!	07:30
GeneralAntilles	Ha	07:30
GeneralAntilles	I was going to say. >_>	07:30
K`zan	nokia N800 tablet updater linux	07:30
K`zan	ww	07:30
GeneralAntilles	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php	07:31
K`zan	flasher-3.0-static ?	07:32
GeneralAntilles	I'd just use flasher-3.0	07:33
GeneralAntilles	but somebody more knowledgeable may have some input.	07:33
GeneralAntilles	Anybody got a Chumby	07:33
GeneralAntilles	Seems like the most useless thing ever.	07:33
zerojay	haha	07:34
zerojay	I got it running on Jablet.	07:34
zerojay	Working on allowing users to use their own channels.	07:34
captlloyd	Oh man, Chumby, why did I bother paying almost $500 for an N810, that would've done everything I need! ;)	07:35
GeneralAntilles	Well, the flickr album is a little more revealing.	07:35
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K`zan	The update appears to me on maemo, if so I am not going to be able to get it now.	07:38
GeneralAntilles	http://www.cnet.com/surveillance-state/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html	07:39
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K`zan	# Go to the N810 software download page.	07:41
K`zan	n810?	07:41
_Monkey	i think n810 is a mixed blessing. sure it got gps and keyboard. but it got one less memory slot...	07:41
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K`zan	I got an n800, will the 810 one work on the n800?	07:42
elb	yeah, and those cards are totally NOT removable	07:42
K`zan	I thought there was a special one for the n800?	07:42
elb	I thought they were, but so many people have been worrying about that that I assume they solder themselves in place on insertion	07:42
GeneralAntilles	No, K`zan. It's just the N810 image.	07:42
K`zan	err, yes, that is what I want, right?	07:44
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	07:44
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K`zan	OK downloading it, should I back up what is on the n800 just in case horrible things happen?	07:45
K`zan	RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin	07:46
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K`zan	There is a 2007 one out there someplace, just in case, right?	07:46
GeneralAntilles	Yes	07:46
GeneralAntilles	Backup to save your settings, though.	07:46
K`zan	OK, pardon if I am a little nervious having had this for all of 9 hours now :)	07:46
GeneralAntilles	Ha	07:46
GeneralAntilles	Like I said before, over 2 dozen flashes on 3 devices. ;)	07:47
K`zan	Yes, but you are braver than I am ;-)!	07:47
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K`zan	Good md5!	07:49
K`zan	here we go....	07:49
GeneralAntilles	Man, browsing through Virtual Console really brings back memories.	07:50
zerojay	Sad that I've got more of those games on my PSP than Nintendo will put on VC.	07:51
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	07:51
GeneralAntilles	The best part of VC are the 64 ports that actually work right.	07:51
zerojay	Vibration is broken, I believe.	07:52
GeneralAntilles	Doesn't work on the computer, either.	07:53
GeneralAntilles	So I'm not worried. ;)	07:53
zerojay	Yes, it does.	07:53
K`zan	/home/vw/zdl/n800-2008} $ ./flasher-3.0 --enable-rd-mode	07:53
K`zan	flasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006)	07:53
K`zan	Suitable USB device not found, waiting	07:53
GeneralAntilles	It doesn't work OVER HERE. :)	07:53
GeneralAntilles	Hold home while powering up?	07:53
zerojay	Don't get Guitar Hero 3 for the Wii.	07:53
GeneralAntilles	I wouldn't buy Guitar Hero anything.	07:54
zerojay	Neversoft fucked up the build.	07:54
K`zan	err, no, it was just on. Killing and trying again...	07:54
GeneralAntilles	I have a real guitar and know how to play it. :D	07:54
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Yeah, but that's nowhere near as fun.	07:54
GeneralAntilles	Ha	07:54
GeneralAntilles	See the South Park episode.	07:54
penguinbait	I just bought a wii today	07:54
penguinbait	Christmas present for the kids :)	07:55
GeneralAntilles	It's a fun one. :)	07:55
zerojay	Neversoft screwed up their final of GH3... the game says it supports all sorts of Dolby and so on... but the build has mono sound forced.	07:55
zerojay	Wii problem, only.	07:55
GeneralAntilles	Don't forget Twilight Princess, penguinbait.	07:55
K`zan	Which one is the "home" key?	07:55
zerojay	The one with the house?	07:55
penguinbait	My kids love zelda	07:55
K`zan	Ah, says that is the swap key here	07:56
zerojay	I have yet to play a 3D version of Zelda that I've liked yet.	07:56
penguinbait	has anyone played smash bros on wii	07:56
K`zan	On the quick start guide...	07:56
penguinbait	I love smash bros	07:56
zerojay	penguinbait: Not out yet.	07:56
penguinbait	it was at the store I was at today	07:56
zerojay	Smash is a great game, no doubt.	07:56
GeneralAntilles	It's not out, penguinbait.	07:56
GeneralAntilles	Next year.	07:56
penguinbait	I didnt buy it though	07:56
zerojay	penguinbait: You probably saw the prerelease boxes.	07:56
GeneralAntilles	zerojay just hates Nintendo. :P	07:57
GeneralAntilles	Twilight Princess was epic	07:57
K`zan	Didn't work, seems to have come up normally...	07:57
GeneralAntilles	Ocarina was orgasmic	07:57
penguinbait	Mario rules!!!!	07:57
GeneralAntilles	Majora's Mask was a little weird, but fun once you got used to it.	07:57
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: No, that's the problem.. I love Nintendo.. and that's why everything they've been doing recently has been just annoying me to no end.	07:57
GeneralAntilles	Windwaker was a little too weird	07:57
GeneralAntilles	but I enjoyed it.	07:57
rhykin	man	07:57
GeneralAntilles	Ocarina has got to be one of the greatest games of all time.	07:57
zerojay	The 3d Zelda games don't feel like Zelda to me.	07:57
rhykin	installing this sdk w/o an internet connection is brutal	07:57
zerojay	They just feel so generic.	07:57
GeneralAntilles	Dunno, I grew up on 3d Zelda	07:58
GeneralAntilles	So maybe my perceptions are a bit skewed.	07:58
zerojay	I grew up on the originals.	07:58
penguinbait	I grew up on zelda NES	07:58
penguinbait	hehe	07:58
K`zan	Nope, just comes up normally GeneralAntilles	07:58
K`zan	Same message...	07:58
K`zan	Lemme try some other keys	07:58
GeneralAntilles	Holding down power button and Home key at the same time?	07:59
zerojay	The 3d Zeldas, Mario Kart 64... pretty much around that time was when I started losing my faith in Nintendo.	07:59
GeneralAntilles	Ha	07:59
K`zan	If that is the same as the swap key, yes.	07:59
GeneralAntilles	Mario Kart was another genius game.	07:59
zerojay	The original, yes.	07:59
GeneralAntilles	It's got a little house on it. ;)	07:59
penguinbait	I love mario Kart	07:59
K`zan	The very bottom one.	07:59
penguinbait	All of the rule	07:59
GeneralAntilles	64, I mean. ;)	07:59
zerojay	The GBA versions were also very good.	07:59
zerojay	The 64 version was probably the disappointment of my life.	08:00
penguinbait	super/64/DS/CUBE	08:00
K`zan	Yep, hold that, push power and it just comes up and I get the "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" message	08:00
GeneralAntilles	Yeesh	08:00
penguinbait	all rule, I loved kart on snes when it came out	08:00
GeneralAntilles	I played HUNDREDS of hours of Mario Kart 64	08:00
GeneralAntilles	I STILL play it every once and a while.	08:00
K`zan	Push power and then hit the home key?	08:00
GeneralAntilles	No, push them at the same time.	08:00
penguinbait	the ds is pretty sweet when playing with the kids	08:00
zerojay	DS version's alright. Double Dash having the problem where the character positions don't affect the handling of the cart killed it for me.	08:00
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zerojay	GeneralAntilles: I don't know how you could have played it that much. I found that game so dog slow and easy.	08:01
K`zan	Ah, OK, I was pushing home and then power...	08:01
GeneralAntilles	Multiplayer	08:01
zerojay	I remember putting it on for the first time at work (when I was working at a game store) and thinking "oh my god.. it is blurred to all hell and runs at like 10 frames a second"	08:01
GeneralAntilles	that, smash, and goldeneye	08:02
zerojay	Smash and Goldeneye were great.	08:02
K`zan	Nope	08:02
GeneralAntilles	Dunno, maybe I was just young.	08:02
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zerojay	Goldeneye doesn't hold up well these days though.	08:02
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, no	08:02
pupnik_	new dosbox deb is up. autostarts xkbd.	08:02
GeneralAntilles	but it was the beginning of console FPS	08:02
zerojay	Proximity mines were my favorite.	08:02
K`zan	GeneralAntilles: Could the charger being plugged in be hosing this?	08:02
GeneralAntilles	Could be	08:02
zerojay	K`zan: Yes.	08:02
K`zan	Ah, unplugging and trying again, thanks much!	08:03
zerojay	K`zan: You are supposed to have a full battery and have your tablet unplugged from the power outlet.	08:03
penguinbait	I was trying to get Windows 311 running on dosbox, it gets through install but dies on starting windows during setup	08:03
penguinbait	I guess I had to much time on my hands	08:03
K`zan	Worked, next step...	08:03
zerojay	I still play the 64 version of Smash occasionally on my Xbox.	08:03
GeneralAntilles	It's pretty good	08:04
GeneralAntilles	Melee is a little more nuanced.	08:04
penguinbait	I play 64 smash on PC	08:04
GeneralAntilles	My friends all destroy me in it though.	08:04
GeneralAntilles	They compete in tournaments and such.	08:04
zerojay	Yeah, people got really hardcore about that game which is funny because it's meant to be the complete opposite.	08:05
penguinbait	My kids are getting older, my 14 year old buy whips my butt in everything :(	08:05
GeneralAntilles	Ha	08:05
penguinbait	Ah thats what I get for yelling in your face to a 4 year old	08:06
penguinbait	lol	08:06
zerojay	I'm not doing that again after the last time.	08:07
zerojay	I was joking around, acting like a poor winner on purpose just to see what my 7 year old would do.	08:07
zerojay	He straight punched me in the balls.	08:07
K`zan	Worked, thanks MUCH everyone!	08:07
penguinbait	oof	08:07
zerojay	and at his height.. perfect alignment.	08:07
K`zan	Now I need a clever device name other than Nokia N800 :)	08:07
zerojay	I called mine crack whore one day.	08:08
K`zan	Something I assume you can change?	08:08
zerojay	And since BT is so extensively used at work, everyone was asking "who the fuck is crack whore?"	08:08
zerojay	Yep.	08:08
penguinbait	mine is sneaky	08:08
penguinbait	my firewall is sleepy	08:08
penguinbait	it up all the time :)	08:09
K`zan	Witch3 :-) as I don't know witch1 it is :)	08:09
zerojay	Heh.	08:09
GeneralAntilles	Hahaha, zerojay.	08:09
zerojay	BT on the N800 is fun.	08:09
zerojay	I was in Montreal at an open wireless hotspot in a mall.	08:09
zerojay	Lots of people around with laptops, obviously.	08:09
zerojay	Someone was sending out mp3s.	08:09
zerojay	So I took one mp3 I had and renamed it 1.mp3 and sent it out to everyone.	08:10
K`zan	This phone selection I can do anytime, right. I doubt I will ever use it...	08:10
zerojay	One by one, just about every computer had The Price Is Right theme blaring.	08:10
zerojay	Everyone was looking around confused.	08:10
zerojay	It was awesome.	08:10
pupnik_	penguinbait: that may be when it switches to protected mode - you may have to switch cpu from 'simple' to full	08:12
K`zan	Success! Thanks GeneralAntilles and zerojay !	08:12
GeneralAntilles	Haha	08:13
GeneralAntilles	Sure thing, K`zan.	08:14
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K`zan	GeneralAntilles: Sigh, where did I find the stuff to enter a static IP again?	08:19
K`zan	Control Panel->connectivity isn't it...	08:20
K`zan	Found it..	08:21
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GeneralAntilles	In the "Start" menu	08:25
GeneralAntilles	Connection Manager	08:25
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K`zan	Now to find fbreader :0	08:46
GeneralAntilles	http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php	08:46
GeneralAntilles	maemo 4.x	08:47
pupnik	dubapgewap...	08:48
K`zan	Thankee Sir!	08:48
K`zan	GeneralAntilles: Is there a point to adding all those repositories? Would seem so at this point?!?	08:55
GeneralAntilles	You might as well.	08:55
K`zan	Ok, wilco, thanks!	08:55
GeneralAntilles	Or just exclude the ones with software you don't want.	08:55
K`zan	No idea at this point, better to have them and not need them ... :-)	08:56
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K`zan	Hummm, browser went toast.	08:58
K`zan	remind me to set a bookmark before going to play :-)	08:59
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K`zan	No xchat yet and no camera, but I suspect those won't be long in coming :).	09:06
K`zan	GeneralAntilles: Again, really appreciate all your help with this!	09:06
GeneralAntilles	It's really a selfish act. ;)	09:07
GeneralAntilles	More happy maemo users means a larger userbase means more developers means more applications for me. :P	09:07
K`zan	Understand, get 'em addicted and all sorts of good stuff can happen :)	09:07
K`zan	Well, this does solve one problem :-)!	09:07
pupnik	zerojay: how did sending 1.mp3 make it play on other computers?	09:07
K`zan	I don't have to thrash on which development system to install, safe to say it can now be 2008 :-).	09:08
K`zan	Lets see if FBreader can get my library right twice in 2008 :).	09:08
pupnik	i want to write a native robotron clone sometime	09:08
pupnik	but it's all so pointless without decent dpads	09:09
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K`zan	I want glom for it now :).	09:09
pupnik	what is glom?	09:10
K`zan	match the tile kind of game, had it on my palms for ages now :).	09:10
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K`zan	ukmp better than media player?	09:11
GeneralAntilles	Mahjong?	09:11
K`zan	More like gather all the same kind of tiles together for max points.	09:11
K`zan	together than you can...	09:11
zoran	K`zan, palm game?	09:13
K`zan	boingomobile something that is important?	09:13
K`zan	zoran: yes.	09:13
zoran	there is beta of some palm vm emulator	09:13
K`zan	Probably something similar out there someplace. Just an OLD habit :-)	09:14
GeneralAntilles	You don't need boingo	09:14
K`zan	Too much hassle to drag the laptop with me to see what is out there that is open wireless, nothing right around here, so I have no idea what I need...	09:14
GeneralAntilles	It's a pay wifi hotspot thing.	09:14
K`zan	GeneralAntilles: Thanks!	09:14
K`zan	Ah, we avoid those if possible :).	09:15
K`zan	Ok, enough packing the device for the night :), time to play some :-).	09:15
GeneralAntilles	If remember getting stuck in the Atlanta airport for 8 hours	09:15
GeneralAntilles	paid $6 for 24-hour wifi access	09:15
K`zan	Yeah, that airport sucks...	09:15
K`zan	Lived there for a long time.	09:16
GeneralAntilles	Bittorrent ran at, like, 1MB down and 1MB up	09:16
GeneralAntilles	it was ridiculous	09:16
K`zan	Funny story on the airport, if you are interested?	09:16
GeneralAntilles	Go.	09:16
K`zan	Yeah, anything to do with fartsfield is gonna be a fiasco...	09:16
K`zan	When they built the airport they were HOT for minority "art"...	09:16
K`zan	Some of the construction people got offended...	09:17
GeneralAntilles	Ha	09:17
K`zan	They put up some construction trash on the wall and told the airport management that they did it, but not where....	09:17
K`zan	Last I heard, they still haven't found it :-).	09:17
GeneralAntilles	Hahaha	09:17
GeneralAntilles	That's beautiful.	09:18
K`zan	I particularly liked the $150K artist drop cloth on the wall of the federal building down there...	09:18
GeneralAntilles	It's amazing what stupid people in high places will pay.	09:18
K`zan	Yep, IMNSHO if the gov has to support art, it isn't...	09:18
K`zan	Yep, PC/SC is a virtulent disease...	09:19
pupnik	govt spending our money is the disease imo	09:19
GeneralAntilles	No kidding.	09:19
K`zan	Yep, agree 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% :-)	09:19
GeneralAntilles	I've got 11 hours of video on my SD cards now	09:20
pupnik	i mean if a private company does it, i can choose not to use their product	09:20
GeneralAntilles	Hopefully that'll be enough to get me to California on Sunday.	09:20
K`zan	Yep, real art supports itself.	09:20
GeneralAntilles	(connecting through Atlanta :()	09:20
K`zan	My sympathy...	09:20
K`zan	That place is a shithole only second to scabattle...	09:20
GeneralAntilles	Worst part is	09:21
GeneralAntilles	I normally fly out of Tampa	09:21
GeneralAntilles	Which is, like, the greatest airport on the planet	09:21
K`zan	Still, wow...	09:21
GeneralAntilles	and going from there to Atlanta is just unbearable.	09:21
K`zan	Atlanta has delusions of grandur...	09:21
GeneralAntilles	Fly of of Tallahassee regional this weekend	09:23
GeneralAntilles	We'll see how it goes.	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Never been in so small an airport	09:23
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K`zan	I used to fly for a living and it got real old after about 5 years.	09:25
K`zan	Come home on weekend (maybe) wash clothes, be at airport at 0500 monday morning...	09:25
K`zan	Was a lot of fun for a while though.	09:25
GeneralAntilles	Commercial?	09:26
K`zan	Unfortunaltely	09:26
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	09:26
GeneralAntilles	With what carrier?	09:26
K`zan	Riding the bus...	09:26
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K`zan	Ohm I was flying all over for a living, not a RL pilot, I only do that on PCs :)	09:26
K`zan	Oh, I was flying all over for a living, not a RL pilot, I only do that on PCs :)	09:26
GeneralAntilles	Haha	09:27
GeneralAntilles	Right, right. >_>	09:27
K`zan	Next week I learn to type.	09:27
K`zan	I wouldn't even fly for my own travel anymore.	09:27
GeneralAntilles	I only fly about once every two years.	09:27
K`zan	Cool, blue light flashes when it goes into standby now :).	09:27
GeneralAntilles	You'll get tired of that very quickly	09:28
GeneralAntilles	especially at night.	09:28
GeneralAntilles	You install openssh yet?	09:28
K`zan	Somewhere around the 1980s, I finally figured out security was a joke and quit doing that to myself.	09:28
K`zan	Not yet, but probably will - seems a lot of work until I get a BT keyboard though.	09:28
GeneralAntilles	The idea is to ssh into the device from a real machine.	09:29
K`zan	I use that a lot.	09:29
K`zan	Ah, that makes more sense - server AND client...	09:29
K`zan	Installing now :-).	09:29
GeneralAntilles	There's a fun little trick in /etc/mce/mce.ini	09:29
K`zan	??	09:30
K`zan	Client installing now.	09:30
GeneralAntilles	soft poweroff	09:31
K`zan	Server...	09:31
_Monkey	server is temporarily unable to service my request. Please try again later.	09:31
K`zan	maemo.org?	09:31
GeneralAntilles	Did you enable the extras repo?	09:31
GeneralAntilles	It comes disabled.	09:31
GeneralAntilles	There's a little check box in its edit dialog.	09:32
K`zan	Dunno, lemme look	09:32
GeneralAntilles	There should be a meta package for both server and client.	09:32
K`zan	server seems hung...	09:32
K`zan	there it goes, done.	09:32
GeneralAntilles	Takes forever to generate keys.	09:33
K`zan	It was disabled.	09:33
K`zan	Fixed it, thanks!	09:33
K`zan	234 people on this channel is impressive considering the time these have been out.	09:33
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	09:33
GeneralAntilles	Well	09:33
GeneralAntilles	If you consider the audience.	09:34
zoran	don't forget bouncers	09:34
GeneralAntilles	The 770 was specifically targeted at hardcore Linux users.	09:34
pupnik	bullseye imo	09:34
K`zan	I'm an installing fool! :-)	09:34
GeneralAntilles	No kidding.	09:35
GeneralAntilles	I don't even remember where I first saw the 770	09:35
GeneralAntilles	but I preordered day 1	09:35
K`zan	Hummm, openssh listed again now, I presume I don't want to do that...	09:36
pupnik	wow	09:36
K`zan	If it were not for the RS-MMC cards, I would have probably had a 770 rather than the 800.	09:36
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GeneralAntilles	The N800 is SO much better than the 770.	09:37
K`zan	Yes, except for physical considerations, 770 seemed MUCH more robust physically.	09:37
GeneralAntilles	The case is a big plus	09:38
pupnik	i can understand them dropping the case for aesthetics, but it's so darn practical	09:38
GeneralAntilles	But overall build strength is about the same.	09:38
GeneralAntilles	The N800 is quite solid.	09:38
K`zan	argh, which repos has all that gcompris stuff in it?	09:39
K`zan	More than I expected, once I get a decent case for it, I'll probably feel a lot better.	09:39
GeneralAntilles	Haha	09:40
GeneralAntilles	Extras	09:40
_Monkey	Extras is http://repository.maemo.org/extras (distribution: "bora" for n800, "gregale" for n770) (components="free non-free")	09:40
GeneralAntilles	and you definitely want that.	09:40
K`zan	Games for kids?	09:41
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K`zan	OK, if you say so :).	09:41
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K`zan	At the rate I am going I am starting to wonder if that 128 meg is going to cut it for long. Would be nice to be able to use some of the SD cards for apps...	09:42
K`zan	kagu better than media player?	09:42
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pupnik	the popular players are kagu, ukmp and canola	09:43
K`zan	Are any of them significantly better than media player?	09:44
GeneralAntilles	Yes and no.	09:44
* K`zan already getting paranoid about space...		09:44
pupnik	duno i'm waiting for something lite like xmms/winamp	09:44
GeneralAntilles	Nah, internal space wont be an issue.	09:44
zoran	what space?	09:44
_Monkey	hmmm... space is relative	09:44
GeneralAntilles	Seriously, I've never managed to file up the internal with apps	09:44
GeneralAntilles	and I install a lot of apps.	09:44
K`zan	only 128m for apps, right?	09:44
GeneralAntilles	Delete the manuals, though.	09:44
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GeneralAntilles	Those take up a ton of space.	09:44
K`zan	Or move them to the SD cards where I am WALLOWING :-)	09:45
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zoran	or make links from internal memory to the card	09:45
K`zan	Ohh, yes! One can do that with this, yummie :)!	09:46
K`zan	Love that terminal :-)!!	09:47
K`zan	fbreader will not pick up my library on /media/mmc1/ebooks/ :-(	09:49
K`zan	Maybe indexing, would be nice to have a spinner to let one know it is doing something though.	09:50
GeneralAntilles	No	09:51
GeneralAntilles	FBReader never picked up my library very well automatically	09:51
GeneralAntilles	Just add 'em by hand	09:51
GeneralAntilles	You'll want to change the attributes, anyway.	09:51
K`zan	Ah, yes, might be permissions problems... checking	09:51
K`zan	Hummm, what is the root password...	09:55
GeneralAntilles	rootme	09:55
_Monkey	hmmm... rootme is the default pw?	09:55
GeneralAntilles	change it asap	09:55
_Monkey	GeneralAntilles: that doesn't look right	09:55
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K`zan	Hummm, not letting me su	09:56
K`zan	How the hell do you change it if you can't su	09:57
K`zan	Not feeling so good about installing ssh at the moment :)	09:57
GeneralAntilles	sudo gainroot	09:57
K`zan	Thanks ! Done.	09:59
K`zan	Wonder if I need to set up a user for myself or just stay user:users	10:00
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GeneralAntilles	Keep it the normal user	10:03
GeneralAntilles	anything else will break shit.	10:03
K`zan	OK, wilco.	10:04
K`zan	Root can't change uid:gid on the SD cards, WTF?!?	10:04
K`zan	chown mmc1 Operation not permitted	10:05
K`zan	Yep, I'm root.	10:05
GeneralAntilles	Maybe corrupted.	10:05
K`zan	Hummm, formatted them under 2007 and then USB mounted them to the desktop and loaded them up...	10:06
K`zan	2007 format NG with 2008?!?	10:06
K`zan	ls works right...	10:06
GeneralAntilles	Removable media is finicky	10:06
GeneralAntilles	Even if the transfer is "done" it's not actually done.	10:06
GeneralAntilles	Dunno, though.	10:07
GeneralAntilles	Generally speaking, you shouldn't need to mess with permissions on the removable stuff, anyway.	10:07
GeneralAntilles	Or, maybe, you accidentally turned on the read only tab	10:07
K`zan	ls -lR looks OK, but yes. I thought I did a "safely remove" though.	10:07
GeneralAntilles	Hard to say.	10:07
solmumaha	you would need to change mount options	10:09
Jaffa	Morning, all	10:11
K`zan	Nope, OK.	10:11
K`zan	Anyway, I'm beat, gonna go fall over. Thanks for all the help, MUCH appreciated!	10:11
K`zan	Night all, rest well!	10:12
GeneralAntilles	'nigght	10:12
K`zan	Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz :-)	10:12
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Jaffa	Gah, Garage is - once again - fscked: http://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=1867 - just hangs.	10:19
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kulve	Jaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308	10:25
kulve	"Maemo.org is too fragile."	10:25
kulve	I made generic bug about that. Some part is always broken and it starts to annoy me..	10:25
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rafl	hooray.. zsh for maemo 4.0 :-)	10:29
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czr	mornink	10:32
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czheng1	game?	11:53
_Monkey	hmmm... game is being done in javascript, if I don't have a pixel buffer to prepare svg graphics at the beginning of a level instead of when it comes on screen, I'll have to substitute with prerendered png sprite sheets.	11:53
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Jaffa	Anyone tried Frothing and compared it to osso-rss-reader (which is also based on Liferea): http://ianlawrence.info/random-stuff/a-port-of-liferea-for-mobile-linux-handheld-devices	12:00
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keesj	Hi	13:24
_Monkey	que tal, keesj	13:24
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DRoBeR	Hello	14:03
DRoBeR	Hola, _Monkey .	14:03
_Monkey	hey, DRoBeR	14:03
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DRoBeR	Cómo va la cosa? :)	14:03
DRoBeR	Hallo, florian .	14:03
florian	hi all	14:04
DRoBeR	Is it frequently to loss the language translation in OS2007? Sometimes I got the problem that my N800 shows me just the "variable_name" instead of its translation to Spanish :)	14:05
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florian	DRoBeR: I use German translation on one device, but I haven't seen this effect so far.	14:06
florian	But in the SDK that happened some times...	14:07
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milhouse	still no maemo.org???	14:49
czr	hmm. has someone made a small panel applet to sync the time on an IT using ntpdate or similar?	14:49
czr	or statusbar applet would do as well. or at least something.	14:49
DRoBeR	Danke schön, florian .	14:50
DRoBeR	How do you correct it?	14:50
alterego	czr, would a daemon not do it?	14:50
czr	alterego, sentence does not compute. what do you mean? (and hello too :-)	14:51
alterego	Would a daemon started by a boot script not do the job for you?	14:51
alterego	Hello :)	14:51
kulve	daemon that checks if the network is available and too long has passed since the previous update, then run ntpdate. Or something.	14:51
alterego	I think ideally it would be configurable through the control panel too ..	14:52
kulve	alterego: usually the network is not yet during the bootup, I think	14:52
czr	alterego, well, something like that. but I'd rather just have it do the sync when necessary	14:52
alterego	kulve, it's a daemon, that doesn't matter.	14:52
czr	not causing network traffic by itself	14:52
czr	could also have a list of servers to use so that one could select one based on the location	14:53
czr	since public ntp servers are sometimes undesireable, and so on.	14:53
alterego	Well, if you're clever about it you can get it to only sync when asked to when connected through a phone.	14:53
alterego	Where as it'd have free roam on WiFi	14:53
czr	I don't want a free roam on wifi	14:53
kulve	milhouse: if you don't like the stability of the maemo.org, vote in bug #2308.	14:53
_Monkey	Bug 2308 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308	14:53
milhouse	thanks kulve	14:54
alterego	Right, that's lunch out-of-the-way.	14:54
alterego	Time to get done and dirty.	14:54
alterego	czr, if I manage to get ruby desktop plugins working I'll write one for you ;)	14:55
milhouse	when did maemo.org go down (roughly)?	14:55
czr	alterego, heh. ok	14:56
alterego	Maybe I'm compiling my loader wrong. But hildon desktop doesn't see my plugin loader :(	14:57
kulve	milhouse: hmm.. I was working for me a second ago, but now it's again gone..	14:57
kulve	bugzilla seems to respond	14:57
kulve	"It was working.."	14:58
milhouse	looking back through the chats it seems to have disappeared about 9pm uk time last night	14:59
alterego	czr, did you read my post in response to that python extension problem? I didn't realise how tired I was O_O	14:59
milhouse	kulve - what ip do you have for maemo.org? my dns returns 62.61.85.38 which is unpingable	14:59
czr	alterego, not recently. when did you send it? :-)	15:00
alterego	That night you forwarded it to me.	15:00
kulve	milhouse: same here. The bugzilla has .75 and it doesn't respond to ping either, even though it responds to http	15:01
milhouse	yeah good point pings could be ignored	15:02
milhouse	but not getting any http response to maemo.org here	15:02
milhouse	bugzilla is fine	15:02
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kaltsi	maemo.org was fine about an hour ago	15:05
milhouse	i missed it	15:06
alterego	It broke when I was using it in the bath.	15:06
alterego	Maybe I got my N800 wet!!	15:06
kaltsi	are you hosting maemo.org on it?	15:06
alterego	Not as far as I know	15:07
kaltsi	keep it away from the bath just to be sure, ok?	15:07
alterego	Okay	15:07
alterego	I was hoping the N810 would be available yesterday :(	15:07
* DRoBeR is away: out of order		15:08
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* alterego dispairs.		15:18
* Jaffa was hoping for an N810 and a letter telling him about his promotion/payrise.		15:19
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alterego	Hah	15:20
alterego	That's not my problem	15:20
alterego	I still can't get my ruby desktop plugin code to work.	15:20
alterego	hildon-desktop doesn't seem to find my plugin loader :(	15:20
GeneralAntilles	Try harder/better, then. ;)	15:20
alterego	I'm sifting through the hildon-desktop plugin source as we speak O_O	15:21
alterego	I've just found the code that displays the "Unknown Plugin Loader type: %s" message.	15:21
alterego	If anyone happens to know the location of the code that actually _loads_ the plugin loaders ..	15:22
alterego	Nice, found it :)	15:23
czr	alterego, you should always look for the single source file that looks to be least related to the thing.	15:23
Jaffa	alterego: it'd put me in a good mood and so I'd finish off the next version of tablet-encode with shiny new features (such as video bitrate efficiency, audio track copying, multiple file support, ...)	15:23
milhouse	anyone got bootmenu installed on an device running os2008?	15:23
milhouse	i'm trying to narrow down why my device keeps losing it's buttons all the time... maybe it's bootmenu (which i have installed)?	15:24
* czr gives some glue to milhouse		15:24
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sp3000	maybe you got an apostrophe stuck under the keypad	15:27
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sp3000	ahhahahahacough	15:27
czr	:-)	15:28
alterego	:/	15:28
czr	weekend irc is the bestest	15:28
alterego	That's not good.	15:28
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alterego	Hmmm ..	15:50
alterego	This code should work ..	15:50
* alterego cries ..		15:50
czr	have you found anyone to blame yet?	15:50
alterego	Lucos Rocha for not properly documenting the system :P	15:51
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alterego	Or Karoliina for not making him document it properly.	15:51
* czr could go couple of steps higher too :-)		15:52
czr	but yeah, you can start with them :-)	15:52
alterego	I think I'll write a little program that attempts to load it and see what happens.	15:52
alterego	I could just rewrite the plugin loader factory ;)	15:54
konttori_	What's up with maemo.org site?	15:55
czr	konttori_, it's broken	15:55
konttori_	Is anybody working on it?	15:55
* czr shrugs		15:55
alterego	Probably not.	15:55
alterego	It's Saturday.	15:55
czr	someone else complained about it here just some time ago	15:55
konttori_	Hey, this is sad.	15:55
GeneralAntilles	alterego dropped the server in the bath tube.	15:55
konttori_	Nokia hosting people should be working 24/7	15:55
GeneralAntilles	*-e	15:55
czr	konttori_, alterego is already crying	15:55
czr	konttori_, it's not hosted by nokia	15:55
konttori_	yeah, so even the more reason that they shoulod be working on it 24/7	15:56
czr	heh	15:56
czr	maybe N gets what it pays for.	15:56
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* czr shrugs		15:56
kulve	konttori_: #2308, please vote, if you don't like the current situation..	15:57
konttori_	I mean, if they are a hosting company, they usually actually have contracts that define how long the downtime can be at worst	15:57
konttori_	link?	15:57
kulve	bug #2308	15:57
_Monkey	Bug 2308 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308	15:57
alterego	Is the server down or just http?	15:57
czr	konttori_, why do you assume it's a hosting company?	15:57
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konttori_	Well, as any sane company outsources hosting to a company who has a hosting center	15:58
kulve	whois 62.61.85.75	15:58
kulve	descr: CiderCone Oy	15:58
czr	konttori_, sane? :-)	15:58
czr	indeed	15:58
konttori_	hosting centers can then have even higher security and have the means to track and update all of the servers 24/7. Because they have so many servers there, then it's ok to keep people htere 24/7	15:59
czr	hey, it's free software, hosting services for it is bound to be free as well ;-)	15:59
konttori_	yeah. let's torrent the server ;)	15:59
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czr	konttori_, I doubt anyone really questions your points. and yes, 24/7 support does exist. but you have to pay money to get service :-)	16:00
* czr thinks that prisons should start running hosting services. they keep people there 24/7 anyway.		16:00
konttori_	Well, the last company that I worked in hosted their servers in a bank hosting facility and it was still only hundreds of euros a month per server.	16:01
* alterego wonders why people use if(module != NULL) instead of if(module) ..		16:01
czr	konttori_, and? :-)	16:01
czr	alterego, because it's more clear.	16:01
czr	alterego, one doesn't have to think what module is	16:02
alterego	Hmm ..	16:02
czr	with NULL it's evident that it is a pointer.	16:02
alterego	So you think I should adopt that style?	16:02
czr	alterego, you don't work for me, I don't read your code. I don't know :-)	16:02
czr	just gave you rationale why someone might use that style :-)	16:02
alterego	Hmm, if I did work for you what would you say?	16:03
czr	yes, you should adopt it.	16:03
alterego	"You're fired!" ^_^	16:03
alterego	Okay	16:03
czr	and you should stop bugging me during weekends with work-related stuff!	16:03
czr	:-)	16:03
alterego	Hah	16:03
* czr misread one google advert as "longest range linux wifi: 500 MW USB wireless adapter"		16:04
czr	that would be something indeed.	16:04
alterego	Heh	16:04
czr	and surely it would be longest range too	16:04
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cofeinesunshine	does http://www.maemo.org/ woks?	16:06
cofeinesunshine	i get an error;/	16:06
Paavo_	the protocol might have problems with latency though, communicating to mars	16:06
cofeinesunshine	Unable to forward this request at this time.	16:06
kulve	bug #2308	16:07
_Monkey	Bug 2308 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308	16:07
czr	cofeinesunshine, remember to vote the bug to be fixed :-)	16:07
cofeinesunshine	deal!;]	16:09
kulve	that bug is meant to tell the nokia that it has always been too often broken. Not to fix some specific issue relating to this current issue	16:11
kulve	that's why it probably needs quite a lot of votes to be noticed	16:11
alterego	Does it have many votes?	16:12
GeneralAntilles	Who wants to go door-to-door with me? :P	16:13
alterego	You can post on ITT, maemo-users maemo-developers	16:13
alterego	blog on planet :)	16:13
alterego	That'll get people voting :)	16:13
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kaltsi	no one can read the planet while the site is down.. :)	16:14
alterego	Obviously, but the site doesn't have to be down to vote for the site being a fragile POS :)	16:14
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alterego	The bug says weekly. Shall I file another bug for the daily breakages?	16:14
kaltsi	'worksforme'	16:14
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alterego	I find gpointer quite confusing ..	16:21
czr	alterego, why?	16:21
alterego	I don't understand why they don't just say (void *)	16:21
alterego	less characters ..	16:21
czr	for completeness	16:21
alterego	Meh	16:22
czr	I don't think Meh is compatible with (void *)	16:22
czr	maybe gconstchar ;-)	16:22
alterego	it is if I define it as void* :P	16:22
Jaffa	Not having access to my garage-based website is really irritating when I'm trying to finish off a mediautils release.	16:23
alterego	:/	16:23
czr	not having access to the howtos is a problem for me when doing the material update. bleh	16:23
kaltsi	alterego is the gpointer a typedef for (void *) ?	16:24
czr	is there a mirror of the howtos (4.0) somewhere?	16:24
derf	But what if it's supposed to be be "void __far *"? You never know when you might want to do that 16-bit Win3.11 port.	16:24
alterego	Luckily I checked out the source for the modules I'm working with in the maemo svn :)	16:24
alterego	kaltsi, yes.	16:24
czr	derf, you'd know when you'd want to, I guarantee that ;-)	16:24
derf	Yes, I do.	16:24
czr	btw, anyone aware of a 16-bit free c compiler?	16:25
czr	one that works and supports more or less modern C?	16:25
kaltsi	it makes sense to typedef all the library's types so that if one day for whatever reasons (portability for example) you need to redefine the type then all the code using would just have to be recompiled and not recoded..	16:25
czr	(for x86)	16:25
GeneralAntilles	google cache, czr?	16:25
czr	GeneralAntilles, ah, good hint. will try	16:25
alterego	Redefining void* .. Interesting.	16:26
kaltsi	no, redefining gpointer	16:26
alterego	Example?	16:26
alterego	typedef char* gpointer?	16:26
kaltsi	ye :)	16:26
alterego	I don't see that happening somehow.	16:26
czr	alterego, more likely than your Meh though :-)	16:26
alterego	Yes, probably.	16:27
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alterego	We'll see what glib3 looks like ;)	16:27
kaltsi	preparing for the unknown .. who knows	16:27
Jaffa	czr: I'd start looking at lcc or tcc as a starting point.	16:27
czr	argh. google cache doesn't find the file. not even sure it exists though (3.x does)	16:27
czr	Jaffa, tcc is 32-bit	16:27
czr	lcc also seems to be 32-bit only	16:28
GeneralAntilles	Maybe coral cache, too, czr.	16:28
Jaffa	czr: doh	16:28
alterego	On a related note. I'm happy to use gpointer .. But I've seen a lot of hildon code use (void*) casts etc instead of gpointer ..	16:28
derf	You can still download Turbo C++ 1.01.	16:29
czr	there was something that bruce perens wrote ages ago, but it's kind of klunky.	16:29
czr	don't recall the name.	16:29
czr	derf, heh. but it's not free :-)	16:29
alterego	I'm staring at a line now that really should be (gpointer) and not (void*) as the method it's calling defines the parameter as a gpointer ..	16:29
derf	czr: It's free as in beer.	16:29
alterego	So portability out-the-window :P	16:29
czr	derf, which isn't free enough for me.	16:29
derf	Well, write your own, then.	16:29
kaltsi	alterego: that's a bug then if one wants to be anal	16:30
czr	I'm not complaining damn it. just wanted some hints whether anyone knew of one.	16:30
derf	I don't even think there was one in the 90's when people still used DOS.	16:30
* czr nods		16:31
derf	DJGPP was the first free compiler I remember hearing about for DOS, and it was for 32-bit protected mode.	16:31
czr	well, the compiler doesn't have to be for dos really. 16-bit x86.	16:32
czr	(for doing stuff that runs on top of the legacy bios cruft)	16:32
derf	There aren't that many 16-bit DOS operating systems.	16:32
derf	Err, 16-bit x86 OSes.	16:32
czr	bios.	16:32
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czr	hmm. coral pulls nothing with maemo.org	16:32
GeneralAntilles	Looks like you need to get yourself a time machine.	16:34
GeneralAntilles	Could you pull a copy of OS2009 while you're out?	16:34
czr	it was using windows. you really want it?	16:34
* GeneralAntilles kills himself.		16:34
czr	hmm. what is the correct form of "be" when referring to past that happens in the future? (as in the time-machine problem)	16:35
kaltsi	'bwas'	16:36
alterego	will be?	16:36
alterego	will have been ..	16:36
czr	alterego, no, that normal future	16:36
czr	hmm. bwas sounds klunky.	16:37
derf	Consult your Douglas Adams.	16:37
alterego	:)	16:37
czr	ah, good hint.	16:37
micky_	Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so	16:38
micky_	:P	16:39
czr	time might be, deadlines are not :-)	16:39
czr	bleh. I found the doc in google cache. but it doesn't want to open it at all.	16:41
czr	ah. firefox to the rescue.	16:42
micky_	deadlines suck	16:42
kaltsi	the newest maemo.org thingies in webarchive are from august 07 so that's no good either	16:43
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody got Quim's homephone? :P	16:45
czr	hmm. is the symlink necessary with 4.0 for the others-menu?	16:45
GeneralAntilles	"HAI QUIM, ur websitez down!"	16:45
czr	(via the debian package package.links file)	16:46
czr	s/others/extras/	16:46
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czr	hmm. actually I think I've already asked this question before	16:48
czr	and the consensus was that "no" and "howtos suck"	16:48
Jaffa	Any 770-encode users who want to test the latest version with muchos new features: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/#encode (since garage is down)	16:50
GeneralAntilles	--list is nice	16:53
GeneralAntilles	Although I already wrote up a bash script to deal with that. :)	16:53
Jaffa	I think I prefer the cp style "file1 file2 fil3 dir" semantics (inspired by --list ;-))	16:54
Jaffa	The bitrate limiting is cool so you don't waste bytes transcoding artifacts from existing files.	16:56
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p\|	re	17:03
fysa	ugh. maybe OS2007 was like this too, but thumb scrolling the web browser on a huge page is painfully slow -- not just because of the time it would take without kinetic, but there is a delay between when your thumb hits the screen and when scrolling is 'activated' that is the same amount of time it takes for your thumb to go from the bottom to top of the screen. effectively, your thumb feels like it's running on a treadmill.	17:08
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* konttori_ voted for tuomas's bug 2308		17:10
_Monkey	Bug 2308 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308	17:10
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, tablet-encode is dying with "Failed to get movie info." for me now. :(	17:12
konttori_	czr: ahh.. my point was back in an hour ago that if Nokia doesn't use proper professional hosting service now, Nokia should consider stating to use such for maemo.org.	17:13
czr	konttori_, I agree with you 100%.	17:13
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czr	too bad I don't work for nokia nor have a magical button that says "all problems go away" :-)	17:14
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kaltsi	I have that button, but it's out of batteries	17:15
konttori_	I hope Quim will be able to address the issue in the future.	17:16
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konttori_	fysa: at least on opera you were able to configure the dpad to go page up / page down on one click.	17:18
konttori_	in os2008 you cannot make such a binding	17:18
konttori_	otoh: n810 has the space key which works as page down.	17:18
GeneralAntilles	Which is stupid.	17:19
GeneralAntilles	It's such a braindead feature to add.	17:19
konttori_	yeah. I think we should press for such a feature.	17:20
czr	spacebar is not stupid! it's the only place where I can get beer while travelling between planets..	17:20
konttori_	;)	17:20
GeneralAntilles	I seem to recall the bug being shot down rather harshly.	17:20
GeneralAntilles	Something about it not being MicroB responsibility.	17:20
GeneralAntilles	I don't recall exactly.	17:20
GeneralAntilles	Only that I really didn't buy it when I read it.	17:20
konttori_	Hmm... maybe we should discuss the issue with specifications instead.	17:20
konttori_	as in the specifications team	17:21
konttori_	do we have open bugzilla for specifications?	17:21
GeneralAntilles	I say we all fly out to Nokia HQ and start bashing heads.	17:21
czr	GeneralAntilles, is flying really necessary?	17:23
GeneralAntilles	For me, yes.	17:23
GeneralAntilles	Unless you expect me to swim. ;)	17:23
czr	ah. so optional for others :-)	17:23
czr	you can always walk on the sea floor :-)	17:23
GeneralAntilles	*we all plane-it, train-it, or automobile-it to Nokia HQ	17:24
czr	heh. it's a good movie	17:24
czr	"where's your hand?" "between pillows" "those are not pillows" (or something to that effect, can't really recall)	17:24
alterego	Well, my test loader can't even open my module.	17:25
p\|	wow: http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/nokia/index.html	17:25
alterego	So I think I'm compiling it wrong :(	17:25
konttori_	I wasn't able to find the dpad reconfiguration bug. GeneralAntilles , do you happen to remember the id?	17:26
GeneralAntilles	Ha	17:26
GeneralAntilles	1000-1800?	17:26
_Monkey	-800	17:26
czr	hah	17:26
GeneralAntilles	Thanks, useless bot!	17:26
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GeneralAntilles	timeless commented on it	17:26
czr	1000/0?	17:26
czr	aww	17:26
GeneralAntilles	Damnit	17:27
GeneralAntilles	If only it had done him in.	17:27
czr	maybe it's still busy calculatnig	17:27
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alterego	100/2	17:28
alterego	100/2?	17:28
_Monkey	50	17:28
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alterego	Well, it does do division ..	17:28
GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1811	17:28
GeneralAntilles	Fail	17:28
GeneralAntilles	off by 11. :(	17:28
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alterego	Could be worse.	17:35
alterego	You could be off by 12	17:35
alterego	or 13	17:35
konttori_	Thanks generalantilles	17:36
GeneralAntilles	Sure	17:36
konttori_	I just tried to vote for the bug, but vote count didn't go up.	17:36
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p\|	maemo.org RIP :-\	17:36
GeneralAntilles	A moment of silence, please.	17:36
p\|	:)	17:36
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konttori_	ahh.. my prob	17:36
kaltsi	when voting do I need to put down any text? :)	17:37
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czr	hmm. is autotools-dev really needed as a build-depends?	17:39
konttori_	you don't need to put any text	17:39
konttori_	You just need to click on the vote and then on the next screen add checkbox for the bug you want to vote.	17:39
kaltsi	ok, I'll vote for that bug then	17:39
alterego	czr, it is in the debian world for some reason. I would have thought "build-essentials" was a givin in package building ^_^	17:40
czr	well, I got debhelper (>= 5.0), autotools-dev	17:40
czr	and wondering about the autotools-dev. seems slightly illogical	17:41
czr	yes, the software uses autotools. but autotools-dev? :-)	17:41
alterego	((gpointer*)&say_hello) - That looks odd ..	17:44
czr	why gpointer*?	17:45
czr	gpointer != void.	17:45
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czr	also, if say_hello is a function, then & is not required/wanted really.	17:45
alterego	Well, that lines says cast a pointer to a function pointer to a pointer to a void pointer :/	17:45
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alterego	It's in a glib example on the gnome website.	17:46
czr	ew	17:46
czr	but why would you want one?	17:46
alterego	I don't know.	17:46
czr	one'd think (gpointer)say_hello is sufficient	17:46
czr	if a (void*) is the end-result that is expected, or gpointer for that matter.	17:46
alterego	Which is what I'm using in _my_ code ..	17:47
alterego	And it works ..	17:47
* czr shrugs		17:47
alterego	I think the example is broken .. It's not even a complete example so I don't actually know what it's doing :/	17:48
czr	yup. most example code unfortunately is like that	17:48
* czr hates that		17:48
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alterego	Yeah, examples should be _working_ examples. Not a few lines of code that don't work. (Which means they're probably not even tested to work)	17:50
czr	bleh.	17:50
czr	"dh_shlibdeps: Compatibility levels before 4 are deprecated."	17:50
czr	what gives?	17:50
alterego	4 is fine.	17:51
czr	no I mean what's wrong	17:51
czr	I bootstrapped the process with dh_make	17:51
kaltsi	do you have a debian/compat file?	17:51
czr	not anymore :-)	17:51
czr	I removed all the extra cruft.	17:51
alterego	compat isn't cruft ;)	17:51
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alterego	It's required ..	17:51
kaltsi	try adding it with '4' in it.. echo 4 > debian/compat	17:51
czr	evidently not. it wasn't required in 3.2	17:51
alterego	No one uses 3.2 anymore :P	17:52
kaltsi	it's not exactly required but it's good to be there	17:52
czr	well. no one told me :-)	17:52
kaltsi	without it the packaging system somehow chooses a compat level	17:52
czr	and this material has gone through "review" a zillion of times.	17:52
* czr acks		17:52
alterego	Grrr ..	17:54
alterego	I must be compiling my loader wrong.	17:54
alterego	But I don't know how I should be compiling it because no one tells me!	17:54
kaltsi	hmm I would have thought the debian policy would say something about that compat	17:55
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czr	debian policy says a lot of things	17:55
czr	a lot of which have zero effect in maemo	17:55
kaltsi	I guess it's not really required then.. cool	17:58
czr	it is in 4.0 at least	17:58
czr	or rather, I got a lot of whining from all the dh-helper tools if it was missing in 4.0	17:58
czr	in 3.2 it was ok to just drop it	17:58
alterego	I should just turn my phone off on Satudays.	17:58
* alterego turns his phone off.		17:59
kaltsi	that's because the debhelper has been updated between those sdk's	17:59
czr	kaltsi, well, yes, but I didn't expect it to start whining :-)	17:59
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kaltsi	hehe :)	17:59
kaltsi	the whining may be just that.. you could ignore it too	18:00
kaltsi	or you are using some obsolete way of doing things that will result in whining	18:00
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czr	I'm using dh_make. if it generated whineable template rules, I'm not to blame :-)	18:00
* czr is trying to update the 3.2 material to 4.0 level		18:01
shackan	gaaaaaaaaaaaaah, maemo down again	18:01
czr	and can't have my step-by-step intstructions start whining.	18:01
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: can you try `mplayer -identify file.avi' for me?	18:01
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: It's possible my fallback/enhanced identification code isn't as robust as I'd like.	18:01
kaltsi	czr read man debhelper for more info about the debian/compat	18:02
czr	kaltsi, [sbox-CHINOOK_X86: ~/appdev/z/packaging] > man debhelper	18:02
czr	bash: man: command not found	18:02
czr	;-)	18:02
konttori_	hey, when will mplayer be added to chinook?	18:02
kaltsi	outside of scratchbox..	18:02
czr	kaltsi, I haven't installed dh_make outside sbox	18:02
czr	:-)	18:02
konttori_	is bartoush handling that or ssvb?	18:02
kaltsi	well do it! :)	18:02
czr	kaltsi, no! :-)	18:02
GeneralAntilles	http://pastebin.com/d2466895f Jaffa	18:02
czr	besides, the issue is fixed now	18:03
czr	but I found yet another bug in 4.0	18:03
czr	"install from file" doesn't work in the application manager in 4.0 sdk.	18:03
GeneralAntilles	mplayer flashes up when tablet-encode tries to do its thing, then closes and I get the error.	18:03
czr	nothing happens.	18:03
kaltsi	hmm is dh_make part of the sdk? debhelper didn't install that on my ubuntu	18:03
czr	kaltsi, it is.	18:03
czr	I think it's a separate program to debhelper	18:04
czr	rather package.	18:04
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czr	hmm. can anyone verify? application manager on 4.0 sdk doesn't support "install from file"?	18:04
czr	which is pretty f*cked. well, less screenshots then.	18:05
kaltsi	I can try to verify.. holdon	18:06
czr	thanks	18:06
czr	it opens the fm dialog to select the deb, then I press select. then nothing happens (fm dialog closes of course, but nothing after that).	18:07
kaltsi	hmm now I need a .deb to test this	18:08
czr	yup	18:08
czr	I'm trying to figure out how to coerse apt-get to download hello-world-app	18:09
czr	(it's already installed on the sdk)	18:09
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kaltsi	where do I need to copy the deb in order for the file selector to access it?	18:09
czr	~/MyDocs	18:09
alterego	czr, source or binary? :)	18:10
czr	alterego, binary, x86	18:10
alterego	Hmm.	18:10
kaltsi	czr you're right.. nothing happened	18:11
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czr	http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/	18:11
czr	there's the hello-world-app as well now	18:12
czr	kaltsi, yup	18:12
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czr	thanks for the verification	18:12
czr	I'll try couple of other things and then file a bug report	18:12
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kaltsi	czr what was that about coercing download of hello-world-app?	18:14
alterego	czr, apt-get --reinstall -d hello-world-app	18:14
alterego	czr, apt-get --reinstall -d install hello-world-app	18:14
alterego	;)	18:14
kaltsi	hello-world-app is already installed so it probably..	18:14
kaltsi	which you already said.. where's me coat?	18:15
alterego	czr, and the file will be in /var/cache/apt/archives obviously :)	18:16
czr	yes	18:17
czr	so you'll have to remove it, then install it back (along with the two other packages), which is PITA	18:17
alterego	No	18:17
alterego	Use that command I just gave you.	18:17
alterego	It will force the downloading and of that specific package even if it's already installed.	18:18
alterego	Exactly what you asked for :P	18:18
czr	alterego, yes, but in order to install the deb, it musn't be installed. in order to remove it, you'll lose two other packages as well	18:18
czr	yes, I'm thinking a step ahead you see	18:18
alterego	Oh .. The _next_ step :P	18:18
czr	yes	18:18
alterego	I give up.	18:19
* alterego asks on irc.gnome.org		18:19
czr	no. not yet :-)	18:19
czr	ah, your problem :-)	18:19
czr	can't you just shove it out of the window?	18:19
alterego	Oh ..	18:20
czr	heh	18:20
alterego	Just as I was connecting I found a promising result in google ^_^	18:20
czr	removing the -dev package caused two TNs to start in the AF	18:20
czr	"funny"	18:20
czr	argh	18:21
czr	now I have two TNs	18:21
czr	even after AF restart	18:21
czr	WTFWKFJEKJGEG.d	18:21
* czr bangs head against wall		18:21
czr	I wonder who I could blame for this	18:21
alterego	I've had that before.	18:22
alterego	You'll have to do a killall.	18:22
czr	how did you fix it?	18:22
czr	nope	18:22
alterego	I suspect it's because once the second TN gets started, when you restart/stop it doesn't kill that process because it doesn't know about it ..	18:22
czr	I think the maemo-sdk-dev reinstall is broken	18:22
czr	no. I did killall. doesn't help	18:22
alterego	Oh	18:22
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alterego	Interesting.	18:22
czr	well. not really. but PITA nevertheless	18:23
alterego	killall 15 ?	18:23
czr	now I can't make screenshots anymore	18:23
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alterego	Heh	18:23
truls	reboot	18:23
alterego	I use the sb-menu to do my killall anyway.	18:23
czr	alterego, sb-conf killall	18:23
czr	faster :-)	18:23
alterego	Though .. sb-conf killall is availabel.	18:24
alterego	Yeah	18:24
czr	truls, what exactly would reboot fix if I have no processes running under sbox?	18:24
alterego	Maybe TN has some strange persist like we were looking at the other day ;)	18:25
czr	I think it's somehow registered twice now since the sdk has been installed "twice"	18:25
alterego	Possibly.	18:25
czr	somewhere.	18:25
alterego	Well ..	18:25
alterego	That would mean there are two service files	18:25
czr	hmm	18:25
alterego	Or some other configuration/definition.	18:25
czr	let me post a screenshot	18:25
czr	it's not d-bus I'm sure	18:26
truls	czr: mounts	18:26
czr	it's the main menu thingy	18:26
kaltsi	czr I got minorly interested about this dh_make + whining thingy.. how can I reproduce the whine?	18:26
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: fixed version now uploaded. Sorry about that.	18:26
czr	kaltsi, run dh_make on a project, then remove all other files except 'copyright', 'control', 'rules' and 'changelog' (under debian)	18:26
czr	then run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot	18:27
kaltsi	yep yep, I just thought which project to try it with	18:27
czr	when it will run rules and all the debhelper commands from there, each of them will complain	18:27
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, no worries. You've already saved me dozens of hours with the package. :)	18:27
kaltsi	the dh_make is supposed to be used on a non-debian thingy to debianize it	18:27
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czr	so?	18:28
alterego	Yes my .so is broken.	18:28
czr	if you only have an autotoolized project to start with	18:28
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kaltsi	well yep .. I thought maybe you had one stashed in a corner somewhere	18:28
czr	kaltsi, sure, give me a sec	18:28
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[mbm]	anyone ever see an n800 refuse to go into reflash mode?	18:29
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alterego	[mbm], have you installed OS2008?	18:29
kaltsi	mbm how?	18:29
lopz	hola	18:29
[mbm]	alterego: grin tried to	18:29
czr	kaltsi, http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/hhwx-0.1.tar.gz	18:29
alterego	[mbm], you mean you're trying to?	18:30
Jaffa	Gah. Now planet's dead again.	18:30
kaltsi	czr thanks	18:30
[mbm]	when I first insert the battery I can get it to turn on, but it instantly turns off without displaying the usb icon	18:30
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czr	hmm. seems that installing hello-world-app doesn't work	18:31
czr	or rather, it installs, but is not displayed in TN	18:32
czr	neither is it loaded to statusbar nor anywhere else	18:32
* czr gets even more annoyed now		18:32
czr	interesting. /usr/sbin/dpkg-proconfigure: no such file or directory	18:34
czr	preconfigure even	18:34
jumpula	dpkg-preconfigure is not required by debian policy	18:34
kaltsi	czr that's not a problem.. it's not required	18:34
jumpula	you can ignore the warnings	18:35
czr	ah. ok	18:35
kaltsi	haa Mr. Jumpula	18:35
[mbm]	any instructions on a cold flash?	18:35
czr	what about packages failing authentication? :-)	18:35
czr	WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!	18:35
czr	maemo-example-apps maemo-sdk-dev	18:35
jumpula	kaltsi: shouldn't you have a maemo free day? :)	18:35
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kaltsi	well.. yes :)	18:35
jumpula	:)	18:36
kaltsi	jumpula, you should make a WoW client for n810	18:36
jumpula	yeah, easy porting	18:36
jumpula	i just got really annoyed at blizzard	18:36
kaltsi	wot happen?	18:37
czr	http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/bugargh.png	18:37
czr	this is what I see. the main menu is twice on the left	18:37
czr	both work btw :-)	18:37
jumpula	the netword update thingy gives server error 500, wine had some problems with the bc updater	18:37
czr	the hello world applet doesn't work though	18:37
jumpula	and now i'm running windows.	18:38
kaltsi	jumpula 8-O	18:38
jumpula	it has been ages, but managed to boot from an ancient partition	18:38
* czr wonders if he now has to reinstall the sdk		18:38
czr	anyone want to verify this bug? it will leave the sdk unusable though :-)	18:39
jumpula	however, the installer seems to be dead here too	18:39
kaltsi	maybe blizzard's website is run by the same company as maemo.org (dead)	18:39
jumpula	maybe	18:39
jumpula	"i see dead people"	18:39
czr	they must be using the same IPR	18:39
jumpula	to top of it all, the setup for nvidia drivers i tried to install crashed in the end :)	18:40
jumpula	although the application was only configuration helper, so i don't care	18:40
jumpula	it just moddled my settings	18:41
jumpula	i miss linux already	18:41
czr	kaltsi, did you get the "operation failed" hildonbanner with application manager as well? (when you started it)	18:42
kaltsi	yep	18:42
czr	I wonder whether that is related to the install from file problem	18:42
czr	but now I have a more serious one.	18:43
kaltsi	it coudl have something to do with network access	18:43
czr	network is fine	18:43
czr	ah. you mean stuff like conic and such?	18:43
kaltsi	yep	18:43
* czr shrugs		18:43
kaltsi	at least when I try to refresh the app list, then it will complain about libconic	18:43
czr	could be	18:43
czr	what is the file that determines what is put in the task navigator?	18:44
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suihkulokki	czr: a .conf file somewhere under /etc	18:45
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czr	suihkulokki, ah, _that_ one ;-)	18:45
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czr	hmm. I wonder why a) I don't get any of the hello-world-app dynamic so thingies b) don't get the hello world task navigator thingy, and c) get the applications-menu twice in TN	18:46
* alterego resorts to looking in the glib source.		18:46
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* czr resorts to reinstalling the fucking sdk		18:49
alterego	:)	18:49
* czr is not amused		18:49
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timelyx	_Monkey forget game	18:53
_Monkey	timelyx: I forgot game	18:53
timelyx	_Monkey game is <reply>	18:53
_Monkey	OK, timelyx.	18:53
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czr	FYI truls, rebooting didn't fix anything.	18:54
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alterego	Oh .. A little bit more info ..	18:55
czr	who would've thought little helloworlds wer so dangerous	18:56
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czr	kaltsi, ah, you fixed one of my bugs too :-)	19:02
czr	2270	19:02
kaltsi	well I just uploaded the packets there :)	19:04
czr	I know. still :-)	19:05
kaltsi	I like to mark bugs to fixed and grab the glory :)	19:05
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trevarthan	anyone have subversion for chinook yet?	19:08
zerojay	Shouldn't the old one work fine?	19:08
zerojay	Considering it's just a command line tool?	19:08
kaltsi	svn is there	19:08
trevarthan	tried from appmng. No luck. Incompatible. Lemme try dpkg -i	19:09
kaltsi	you mean for the device?	19:09
kaltsi	that's not there .. only in scratchbox	19:10
* czr looks at GutsyX86-maemo-chinook-fucked-up-by-helloworld.tar.gz with tears in his eyes		19:10
* czr waves bye bye to it		19:10
trevarthan	Yeah. The device. I'm a python dev. I try not to mess with scratchbox.	19:11
trevarthan	I wish the thumb vkb wouldn't always start with some text in it in chinook's xterm. Really annoying.	19:12
kaltsi	trevarthan: well the official n800 image is not out yet	19:13
trevarthan	Yeah. Maybe it'll be fixed by then.	19:13
konttori_	maybe someone could compile svn for the device.	19:14
kaltsi	trevarthan: which language do you use?	19:14
konttori_	should be pretty straight forward.	19:14
kaltsi	konttori_: yeah.. do it! :)	19:14
konttori_	shouldn't bora version work out of the box	19:14
konttori_	well, not me. I don't have enough porting experience.	19:14
trevarthan	I've got mixed feelings about the toolbar being on the bottom instead of the right too. Better line length. But pgup and pgdwn are awkward now.	19:15
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trevarthan	arg. thumb vkb pastes all text twice too.	19:16
trevarthan	kaltsi: python	19:17
_Monkey	somebody said python was probably the easiest	19:17
trevarthan	yer a genious monkey	19:17
kaltsi	trevarthan: ok, but as a language in the device.. english, french? :)	19:17
trevarthan	english	19:17
_Monkey	english is fine, no worrink!	19:17
czr	_Monkey, you're deep from accordion	19:18
_Monkey	czr: what?	19:18
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trevarthan	i love chinook btw. just wish xterm and the thumb vkb weren't fucked up.	19:19
konttori_	trevarthan: ah. the xterm wasn't really properly tested for n800. I can see that being really annoying. I will add it to our bug db on monday	19:19
konttori_	I'm handling xterm, so let me know of other annoyances as well	19:20
trevarthan	thank you.	19:20
czr	hmm. TN will break permanently only if it is running when the hello-world-app is removed	19:20
timelyx	_Monkey forget python	19:20
_Monkey	timelyx: I forgot python	19:20
timelyx	_Monkey python is <reply>	19:20
_Monkey	OK, timelyx.	19:20
konttori_	and the xterm is completely in garage, so it can be fixed in-between releases pretty easily as well (and we welcome contributors)	19:20
timelyx	_Monkey forget english	19:21
_Monkey	timelyx: I forgot english	19:21
Jaffa	konttori_: by "our bug db", I assume you mean Bugzilla/Garage; cos it'd be really irritating to know there are still internal bug trackers in regular use inside Nokia as the default option for open source stuff	19:21
timelyx	_Monkey english is <reply>	19:21
_Monkey	OK, timelyx.	19:21
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trevarthan	oh really? cool.	19:21
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: That sound official and professional? ;)	19:21
konttori_	ahh... yeah. true.	19:21
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konttori_	I suppose it's better to keep master in garage.	19:22
konttori_	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/osso-xterm/	19:22
sp3000	garage's bugmail sucks :(	19:22
Jaffa	Of course, you can't get to garage atm :-(	19:22
czr	garage still down?	19:22
czr	ah :-)	19:22
konttori_	nope.	19:22
konttori_	it's up	19:22
Jaffa	Oh, it's back now.	19:22
timelyx	Jaffa: unfortunately, nokia really does suck	19:22
Jaffa	Wonderful, I can do lots of commits	19:22
czr	https://garage.maemo.org/svn/rapier/ ?	19:22
trevarthan	any chance we can make the location of the toolbar configurable in xterm?	19:22
konttori_	and trevarthan, it can actually be that the thumb bug has been fixed in the latest xterm available on garage	19:23
czr	anyone get anything but a blank screen from that url?	19:23
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GeneralAntilles	Hmm? What's that, zerojay?	19:23
konttori_	I don't have my n810 with me on the weekend, as I had to loan it to another dev, but I'll check on the bug on monday	19:23
timelyx	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/rapier/trunk/	19:23
trevarthan	Is there a package for download on garage? Or just svn?	19:23
timelyx	Jaffa: you can get to portions of garage	19:23
konttori_	trevarthan: the location of the toolbar is specified by the UI people to be inline with ordinary toolbar use.	19:23
konttori_	so, cannot be done for nokia releases. sorry.	19:24
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: The message I sent out on Jablet announcing the quick downtime.	19:24
konttori_	trevarthan: I don't think there is a package in garage.	19:24
timelyx	konttori_: i'm curious	19:24
timelyx	would you be opposed to adding code to handle alternate preferences?	19:24
GeneralAntilles	Ha, didn't see it.	19:25
timelyx	i'm currently wontfixing bugs asking for such junk	19:25
timelyx	because i need to start removing junk our ui designer asked for	19:25
trevarthan	Surely toolbar location could be optional and default to nokia standards though?	19:25
zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Oh... weird. Should have been broadcast to everyone. The broadcast plugin got updated last night.. maybe they gummed it up. :/	19:25
konttori_	nope, just that we can't deliver, as it would require new translations for the options and we are past the point of being able to request for new translations	19:25
timelyx	trevarthan: if it requires ui work, it's pretty much out :)	19:25
timelyx	konttori_: gconf only (no ui)?	19:26
konttori_	yeah, that would do it.	19:26
konttori_	In the end, I think it should be pretty easy to make the transtion to right side toolbar from the bottom toolbar.	19:26
zuh	What, Nokia spends UI cycles on xterm? Umm... Well spent, I hope ;)	19:26
konttori_	I'll keep it in mind.	19:27
zuh	*UI design cycles	19:27
trevarthan	hah. Damn. Oh well. It's not that bad i guess. I think you'll get more complaints though.	19:27
konttori_	Nope, nokia spent maybe 4 hours on the UI.	19:27
timelyx	zuh: nokia freezes ui design cycles	19:27
konttori_	But it had to support some general guidlines (such as toolbar at the bottom)	19:27
timelyx	you get a few, and then aren't allowed to touch it for 18months :)	19:27
alterego	xterm wasn't developed by nokia.	19:28
zuh	hmm, osso-xterm is officially supported now?	19:28
timelyx	officially supported, hah	19:29
alterego	I think it's included in the rough OS2008 release everyone seems to be using.	19:29
timelyx	what's that mean?	19:29
trevarthan	Maybe xterm should be strictly 3rd party then. I'm not sure why a normal user would want it anyway to be honest.	19:29
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timelyx	trevarthan: that was the claim used for 2005, 2006, 2007	19:29
derf	Define "normal".	19:29
alterego	trevarthan, it is third party.	19:29
pupnik	they should just send out the darn N810 to the 500 people with the dev discount, finished OS or no	19:29
alterego	Regardless, when it comes down to it. I'd say 90% of tablet users use the xterm ..	19:29
trevarthan	I mean not included with the os and not governed by nokia.	19:29
zuh	timelyx: in the images or in the tableteer repos (or whatever they were)	19:29
shackan	alterego: yeah, normal people don't buy tablets, geeks do	19:30
alterego	trevarthan, it's not included with any official OS release.	19:30
trevarthan	Sure it is. :)	19:30
*** rambokid is now known as tjafk		19:31
alterego	No, it isn't.	19:31
alterego	You might think it is. But you're wrong.	19:31
trevarthan	Really? Maybe i'm not remembering then.	19:31
timelyx	do i have to vpn in on a saturday night to answer this?	19:31
* timelyx really thinks that's an awful way to spend a saturday night		19:31
czr	timelyx, you know you want to	19:31
trevarthan	Why the hell is it governed by nokia then?	19:32
* zuh is just wondering what benefits it gets from being "nokia governed" other than "must follow general UI design that has nothing to do with using the command line...)		19:32
shackan	timelyx: but still, you're on irc on a sat night	19:32
alterego	I don't know what that means. All I know is xterm was never supplied with any official OS release.	19:32
timelyx	shackan: i'm watching tv	19:32
timelyx	or a movie	19:32
timelyx	or both	19:32
timelyx	vpn'ing would require i pull out my work laptop	19:32
timelyx	and turn it on	19:32
czr	kaltsi, bug 2313. you want to close that one as well? ;-)	19:32
_Monkey	Bug 2313 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2313	19:32
timelyx	this is my recreational mac	19:32
czr	looks easy to fix.. very.	19:32
kaltsi	czr: eek	19:33
czr	there's a screenshot too :-)	19:33
czr	I just verified the bug. it wasn't one-off	19:33
timelyx	czr: what'	19:33
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czr	timelyx, what what?	19:34
timelyx	s w/ the second applicaiton launcher menu?	19:34
timelyx	my enter key is too close to '	19:34
czr	timelyx, look at the screenshot	19:34
czr	I have two application menus in the TN	19:34
czr	both work	19:34
czr	oddly enough, repeating the same breakage-procedure did not add more copies of the application menus :-)	19:34
timelyx	heh	19:35
czr	more seriously though, none of the .so based examples in hello-world-app work anymore	19:35
czr	except the control panel one.	19:35
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trevarthan	Hope someone ports quick launcher to chinook soon. I miss it.	19:36
kaltsi	I think the correct target for that is the sdk and hello-world.. its postinst or postrm scripts may be buggy, the poor task navigator may have nothing to do with that	19:36
czr	kaltsi, I have no idea. I picked the category that seemed right to me. normally bugs will find their way into correct places magically :-)	19:37
kaltsi	yep yep	19:37
* czr goes back to setup the SDK		19:37
trevarthan	I'd also appreciate it if someone could build svn for chinook.	19:37
timelyx	why not use host svn?	19:38
czr	timelyx, he wants to run it on the device	19:38
konttori_	I think xterm fits pretty well on the concept that n810 is computerish device and that with keyboard you can actually use that quite a lot.	19:38
timelyx	he's nuts	19:38
czr	or do you trevarthan?	19:38
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konttori_	I don't know the details why it was chosen to be added, but in the end I think it was a pretty good idea	19:39
czr	konttori_, if only the keyboard would have a tab as well!	19:39
* konttori_ leaves to play some tennis		19:39
czr	yeah. xterm ftw.	19:39
konttori_	czr: it actually had (fn + space).	19:39
czr	hmm. why not a proper one?	19:39
konttori_	I think that can still be configured by the x11 bindings	19:39
timelyx	konttori_: ooh!	19:39
konttori_	anyway, need to leave	19:39
timelyx	can you please help me?	19:40
timelyx	i have these nuts bothering the browser team	19:40
timelyx	please explain to them how to map keys per app :)	19:40
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czr	hmm. fn+space sounds nice. how to do it?	19:40
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* czr gives a bag of bolts to timelyx		19:40
timelyx	lighting please?	19:41
czr	:-)	19:41
timelyx	that'd work nicely	19:41
trevarthan	timelyx: yeah. I run svn on the device for python dev over ssh. Efficient that way.	19:41
timelyx	trevarthan: sshfs?	19:41
_Monkey	somebody said sshfs was enough for mgedmin_'s needs	19:41
timelyx	samba?	19:41
timelyx	rsync?	19:41
* timelyx would go w/ rsync		19:41
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trevarthan	Sure. Or svn on the device. :)Sure. Or svn on the device. :)	19:43
GeneralAntilles	nuts . . . I just want some basic functionality out of my browser. ;)	19:43
alterego	Wow, the PDF reader is faster too :)	19:43
czr	GeneralAntilles, shouldn't you be adding it instead of taking it out?	19:43
alterego	Still no support for hyperlinks though ..	19:43
czr	alterego, did you find a solution to your prob btw?	19:44
trevarthan	Btw. That sentence dup is chinook's xterm plus thumb vkb bug fault.	19:44
GeneralAntilles	Har har, czr.	19:44
czr	GeneralAntilles, I'm sorry. bad hair and everything else -day.	19:44
Jaffa	Yay, first proper tablet-encode release now on garage: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.php	19:45
alterego	czr, still working on it.	19:47
czr	alterego, ok. I'm thinking of quitting for tonight. motivation drainage after all the sdk mess.	19:47
RushPL_	Jaffa: is the result of tablet-encode playable on the default video player?	19:47
alterego	Okay,	19:47
RushPL_	not mplayer	19:47
GeneralAntilles	Yes, RushPL_.	19:47
Jaffa	RushPL_: yep, guaranteed (well, unless you use the 'mplayer' preset)	19:47
alterego	czr, so you don't want to help me with my issue? ;)	19:48
RushPL_	cool, I need to try it. :)	19:48
GeneralAntilles	mplayer preset will run just fine on the built-in on the N800	19:48
trevarthan	It would be really nice if the pdf reader remembered your page position like fbreader.	19:48
GeneralAntilles	Add another 400Kbps on it, even.	19:48
czr	alterego, not unless you want me to bork your SDK as well :-)	19:48
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: might not now - it's been bumped up a little higher	19:48
Jaffa	Ah OK, cool.	19:48
timelyx	trevarthan: is that bug filed?	19:48
alterego	Hah	19:48
GeneralAntilles	I've bumped it to 1200 no problem.	19:48
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: you running OS2008 on your N800?	19:48
timelyx	trevarthan: also, how do you define a pdf file?	19:48
GeneralAntilles	It stays at 1000 by default, though.	19:48
GeneralAntilles	Currently	19:48
timelyx	if you load page 5 in a pdf	19:49
timelyx	and quit	19:49
trevarthan	timelyx: which one?	19:49
timelyx	and then move the pdf	19:49
GeneralAntilles	but that worked under os2007, too.	19:49
timelyx	and reopen	19:49
timelyx	what page should it show?	19:49
timelyx	quit again, rename the file, roepen	19:49
timelyx	what page should it show?	19:49
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: indeed, just wanted some additional testing - we could bump the "best" preset up to whatever's really best, and lose the mplayer specific one if it's that good.	19:49
timelyx	trevarthan: once you've answered these questions, file a bug in bugs.maemo.org	19:49
trevarthan	Don't care really. Just want it to remember if i don't move the pdf.	19:49
timelyx	how many files should it remember?	19:50
timelyx	10, 20, 100, 1000?	19:50
timelyx	how should it choose to forget?	19:50
trevarthan	All?	19:50
alterego	czr, what should be extremely simple is being a pain in the ass :/	19:50
timelyx	what if you open 1million files?	19:50
timelyx	at some point, that's space on your very limited root partition	19:50
kaltsi	or a gazillion!?	19:50
czr	alterego, I feel the pain and can relate to the feeling. unfortunately for your ass and mine.	19:50
trevarthan	Yer fucked? :)	19:51
timelyx	...	19:51
timelyx	answer these questions properly before filing	19:51
timelyx	otherwise, the results will be bad	19:51
alterego	czr, at least I have an error to work with now. Something the hildon-desktop loader didn't give me: undefined symbol: hd_plugin_loader_get_type	19:51
czr	that looks like API incompatibility somewhere	19:52
trevarthan	I think all of that is up to the dev. I just want it to remember. Don't care how.	19:52
timelyx	trevarthan: left up to the dev it'll get messed up	19:53
timelyx	lost, forgotten, or done poorly	19:53
timelyx	pick all the answers, leave it so the dev doesn't have to spend time thinking, negotiating, or discussing	19:53
trevarthan	Wow. It must suck to be a dev at nokia. No creativity allowed?	19:54
czr	heh	19:54
Jaffa	Planet's dead again.	19:54
czr	kaltsi, found the cause for the 'operation not permittied' problem in AM	19:58
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czr	ahhaha. the same reason stops it from installing from file	19:58
czr	hmm. another problem though	19:59
czr	bleh.	19:59
czr	"dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege"	19:59
kaltsi	sudo?	20:00
_Monkey	well, sudo is supposed to do that. this is the difference in running as root and running from within a shell run as root :)	20:00
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czr	kaltsi, no. it tries to run /usr/bin/fakeroot	20:00
czr	which isn't there. instead fakeroot is at /scratchbox/blah.	20:00
czr	added a symlink. it kind of works. except that when it comes to the time to actually install the deb	20:00
czr	then it fails because it's not running dpkg internally using fakeroot	20:01
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* czr curses in old church slavic		20:01
kaltsi	hmm I've installed the sdk now a number of times in ubuntu and redhat systems.. never ran into that	20:01
czr	kaltsi, err, this is the "install from file" problem	20:01
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czr	in application manager.	20:02
czr	the one that you verified ;-)	20:02
kaltsi	.. my coat	20:02
* czr hands it to kaltsi		20:02
kaltsi	thank you, sir :)	20:02
czr	suits you :-)	20:02
kaltsi	:D	20:02
kaltsi	hm hum.. what if you started the AM as fakeroot.. would that make any sense (the fakeroot is a bit of magic to me)	20:04
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kaltsi	nah that makes no sense	20:08
czr	the problem is that AM is not designed for SDK use. that's the problem	20:08
timelyx	omigosh	20:08
timelyx	did jericho use an n810?	20:08
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trevarthan	timelyx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2314	20:09
* timelyx chuckles		20:09
timelyx	do you know how much free space there is on an n800?	20:09
timelyx	say <128mb	20:09
kaltsi	that's just nitpicking	20:10
trevarthan	do you know how much space a name->int mapping takes?	20:10
timelyx	1million page mappings, w/ file paths of say 256 chars (minimum)	20:10
trevarthan	practically nothing	20:10
timelyx	each mapping is say 1k	20:10
timelyx	so, um...	20:10
timelyx	1g?	20:10
trevarthan	nobody will open 1 million files in pdf reader	20:11
kaltsi	make it hash the document name and add a page number.. if someone goes through a million pdf documents with their n800, give that guy a cigar	20:11
trevarthan	seriously	20:11
timelyx	heh	20:12
czr	kaltsi, http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/whee.png	20:12
kaltsi	you, sir, are a star! .. or the sdk rules? :)	20:12
czr	only if you consider ruling to be "forces to write incredible kludges"?	20:12
timelyx	trevarthan: severity: enh	20:13
kaltsi	sounds like ruling	20:13
czr	kaltsi, maybe in the company that you work in.. oh, wait..	20:13
czr	:-)	20:13
czr	but everyone knows that glue is what makes the world go around	20:13
kaltsi	sniff	20:13
czr	I'll have a quick smoke and write up the bug-report. I noticed that there'a a log in AM nowadays too	20:14
czr	that prompted me to the first kludge	20:14
czr	the second kludge I had to kludgify all by myself	20:14
kaltsi	it's been there a long time.. at least with the red pill mode	20:14
* czr shrugs		20:14
trevarthan	timelyx: done	20:14
czr	it should be shown by default when there are issues	20:14
kaltsi	not really	20:14
timelyx	trevarthan: was the guided form unclear or did you sorta skip that?	20:14
* timelyx works on improving bugzilla too		20:15
czr	it should be! when _I_ have issues. damn it :-)	20:15
kaltsi	the 'average' user would never dare to use the AM again :)	20:15
czr	who you calling average!	20:15
* czr goes to have the smoke		20:15
kaltsi	takes one to know one!	20:15
kaltsi	wait..	20:15
czr	:-)	20:15
alterego	I'm getting the feeling I'll never get this to work.	20:15
czr	maybe we should marry, procreate and fill the world with perfect averageness	20:15
kaltsi	beige	20:16
trevarthan	timelyx: too much data on the page. I looked, but didn't see it.	20:16
trevarthan	I'm used to Trac tickets	20:16
trevarthan	Man, I wish FBReader did PDF. They apparently have no interest in doing PDF though. Something about it being non-free?	20:18
trevarthan	Lame.	20:18
czr	kaltsi, application catalog doesn't work though. refreshing I mean. at least now I get an error message though	20:19
czr	hildon-application-manager[6261]: GLIB DEBUG ConIc - con_ic_connection_send_event(0x8154470, (null), (null), 1)	20:19
czr	or rather, a debug message	20:19
alterego	Hmm .. Anyone know off hand what the correct sh syntax for assigning a value to a variable by having the name in another variable?	20:20
czr	but I don't really need that.	20:20
trevarthan	Anyone else experiencing wicked clock drift in chinook?	20:20
alterego	something like $1= ?	20:20
trevarthan	I set my clock two hours ago and it's off by an hour already.	20:20
czr	trevarthan, by chinook do you mean the SDK or a device?	20:20
trevarthan	device	20:20
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czr	then say so. chinook = sdk 4.0	20:21
trevarthan	N810 firmware on an n800	20:21
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czr	ah. can't help you there.	20:21
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czr	let me see what my device says	20:21
trevarthan	timelyx: why isn't NTP a default part of maemo yet?	20:21
timelyx	do i look like i'm part of core?	20:21
elb	ntp is, generally speaking, not good for power management	20:21
czr	indeed	20:22
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timelyx	but that's why i wouldn't add it :)	20:22
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kaltsi	alterego: foo=$bar	20:23
czr	btw. what is the component in application manager which kinds of resembles of "history" toolbar. the gray one with <- \| Main > Browse installable applications?	20:23
timelyx	cookie crumbs?	20:23
kaltsi	alterego: nevermind.. :)	20:23
timelyx	it should be in media player too	20:23
alterego	kaltsi, thanks. Though it doesn't matter. I'm writing my script in Ruby instead ;)	20:23
GeneralAntilles	Nice if it could use NTP for a monthly sync, or something.	20:23
czr	timelyx, maybe so, but media player is not present in the SDK	20:23
timelyx	not sure if it made it anywhere else	20:23
timelyx	czr: ok, well, :)	20:23
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kaltsi	alterego: in php there was this ${} thingy, dunno about ruby	20:24
trevarthan	konttori: timelyx: I just noticed that I can't open URL links from xterm anymore.	20:24
trevarthan	in chinook	20:24
czr	eval is the correct way	20:24
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czr	alterego, foo=`eval $bar`	20:24
alterego	kaltsi, I don't need to do it in Ruby. It was just a hack for doing something in sh	20:25
czr	or smt like that	20:25
trevarthan	konttori: timelyx: I can't copy and paste from xterm either. ugh.	20:26
timelyx	anymore?	20:26
trevarthan	yeah, used to work fine in bora	20:26
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timelyx	/usr/bin/browser --url=x	20:26
timelyx	doesn't work?	20:26
trevarthan	dunno. I just know that URLs are underlined in xterm, and you used to be able to open them by holding the stylus over them. you can't now.	20:27
trevarthan	also, you used to be able to copy and paste by highlighting and going to Copy on the vkb. can't do that either now.	20:27
timelyx	are the vkbs available?	20:28
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trevarthan	I found copy. it's in the xterm menu. maybe it was always like that and I forgot.	20:32
trevarthan	but the URL thing used to be really cool. too bad that's broken.	20:32
derf	URL highlighting is a must.	20:32
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kaltsi	maemo.org seems to work now	20:34
czr	kaltsi, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2312#c1	20:34
czr	in case you're interested in seeing the "solution"	20:35
kaltsi	hehe nice	20:36
czr	oddly enough running dpkg.orig with fakeroot didn't work	20:36
czr	but hey, at least it works now	20:36
czr	what is the correct way to write hildon btw?	20:38
czr	hildon or Hildon?	20:38
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kaltsi	http://live.gnome.org/Hildon that place uses Hildon a lot	20:39
timelyx	http://live.gnome.org/Hildon	20:39
czr	so why don't you people spell it correctly then? :-)	20:39
timelyx	do i ever write it anywhere?	20:40
kaltsi	the shift key quota was reached last month	20:40
czr	plural you. as in "they" in the evil "they" :-)	20:40
czr	kaltsi, indeed :-)	20:40
czr	what about libosso?	20:40
timelyx	evcil	20:40
kaltsi	libbadname	20:40
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timelyx	http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:KtuXz5pctqwJ:maemo.org/maemowiki/HildonDesktopPortability+hildon+haf&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5	20:41
czr	I'm serious though	20:41
timelyx	it has various baseline apis	20:41
czr	Libosso or LibOSSO?	20:41
timelyx	including iirc oom notifications	20:41
timelyx	libosso afaik	20:41
czr	I know what it has. just wondering what you people use to write about it	20:41
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czr	which form/capitalization that is.	20:41
timelyx	i think it's the elephant in the corner	20:41
timelyx	no one writes about it :)	20:42
timelyx	but i'd write it all lowercase	20:42
kaltsi	take a look at the maemo quick start guide now that the site is up..	20:42
czr	ok. you kaltsi?	20:42
timelyx	and yeah, i don't mind, since i've been known to ask similar questions in the past	20:42
kaltsi	that must mention the libosso somewhere.. I'd use that	20:42
timelyx	http://www.google.com/search?q=libosso%20site%3Amaemo.org&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8	20:42
kaltsi	ooo missed it.. site went down :D	20:42
timelyx	Libosso	20:42
timelyx	libosso.h. o + Data Structures. \| o * osso_hw_state_t .... Generated on Mon Dec 18 16:43:35 2006 for Libosso by doxygen 1.4.2.	20:42
timelyx	maemo.org/api_refs/3.0/libosso/index.html -	20:42
timelyx	remind me to shoot someone	20:43
timelyx	the python people spell it LibOSSO]	20:43
czr	so do I	20:43
timelyx	LibOSSO: Not included	20:43
timelyx	When Libosso calls the application's exit callback function, the application should save its GUI state and unsaved user data and exit as soon as possible. ...	20:43
timelyx	maemo.org/api_refs/2.1/libosso/html/group__outside.html - 40k -	20:43
czr	without the brace obviously.	20:43
timelyx	the api people can't make up their mind	20:43
czr	I suggest LibOSSO. as per origin.	20:43
czr	and infact, I've had this discussion with other people already. there just doesn't seem to be a consensus on it	20:44
* timelyx prefers elephant in corner		20:44
timelyx	much better :)	20:44
timelyx	anyway, i'm hungry	20:44
* czr agrees		20:44
timelyx	i need dinner from yesterday	20:44
czr	-l'elephant in corner' ? :-)	20:44
timelyx	and breakfast/lunch/dinner from today	20:44
timelyx	czr: sold	20:44
czr	great. I'll file a bug against it	20:45
timelyx	good by me	20:45
timelyx	and goodbye -- me :)	20:45
czr	so instead of osso_initialize, it will be elephant_in_corner_energize() ? :-)	20:45
czr	later timelyx :-)	20:45
czr	I need some food too actually.	20:45
kaltsi	the maemo tutorial seems to call it LibOSSO	20:46
czr	but maemo tutorial is broken too	20:46
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kaltsi	meh	20:46
czr	the fact is, all of the documents are in rather many ways in contradiction with each other :-)	20:46
czr	like maemo tutorial vs coding style, etc	20:46
czr	hmm. any idea where should I could the 'control' files of already installed deb packages?	20:47
kaltsi	it also calls it libOSSO	20:47
czr	heh	20:47
czr	I wonder if anyone calls it LibOsso or libOsso	20:47
kaltsi	"should I could" ?	20:47
czr	oh my. brain mistakes :-)	20:47
czr	should i find :-)	20:47
czr	I would find works too	20:47
kaltsi	hmm I doubt the control files get installed	20:48
czr	ah. shame	20:48
kaltsi	or I wonder how 'postrm' works.. that's a control file too and it's run when the deb is uninstalled.. so maybe they are somewhere	20:49
timelyx	those do go somewhere	20:49
timelyx	/var iirc	20:49
timelyx	anyway, if the file's in chinook, the xref knows :)	20:49
czr	kaltsi, they're in /var/lib/dpkg/ smt.	20:49
kaltsi	ok good to know	20:49
alterego	I'm giving up for a while.	20:50
* alterego moves on to his Ruby based build system.		20:50
czr	beh, I just did a dump of dpkg -l > foo and went through all usages of hildon there	20:51
czr	just to check whether it's spelled incorrectly in other packages too	20:51
alterego	Hah	20:51
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czr	timelyx, does your xref also point to the correct product/bugzilla section for each file? that'd be neat ;-)	20:51
czr	damn. someone grabbed 2314	20:54
czr	ah. that was the one million files issue :--)	20:55
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kaltsi	czr if you find this kind of bugs file them directly under development platform/sdk	20:57
czr	kaltsi, even if it's in hildon-theme-plankton?	20:57
kaltsi	well no :)	20:57
czr	see!	20:57
czr	this is why I choose what seems best to be and let heads roll.. or what was it :-)	20:58
czr	the product/category thing is really unclear to me at times	20:58
czr	especially since the SDK is not as a separate platform as it should be imho	20:58
kaltsi	although the plankton is an sdk theme.. so it would find the responsible from there too :)	20:58
czr	yes. but the point is that we (outsiders) don't get to see who ends up fixing what and what team does what	20:59
czr	we just see a randomly organized front-page which doesn't always contain the info that is necessary to decide where to bug people.	20:59
czr	and no, I'm not whining, just explaining that it's not easy :-)	20:59
czr	although I can whine too :-)	20:59
* czr is adding all the bugs into a save search thingy		21:00
kaltsi	I don't blame you and those bugs will find their rightful owner wherever you decide to file them..	21:00
* czr nods		21:01
alterego	You made me typo Builder to Buildon czr :P	21:02
czr	well, at least you weren't writing about straper	21:02
alterego	:)	21:02
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p\|	alterego: did you know this: http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/nokia/index.html ?	21:04
czr	hmm. is it possible to add some kind of column in saved searches in bugzilla that indicates how long each bug has been "inactive"?	21:06
czr	and when a bug was originally opened (by me)	21:06
czr	"yes there is, use the 'change columns' thingie"	21:06
czr	argh. but the 'changed' doesn't really reflect "how long", instead shows a date/timestamp	21:07
czr	"ah yes, but don't you know how to subtract any two given dates to get the number of days count automatically?"	21:07
czr	no	21:07
czr	:-(	21:07
alterego	p\|, neat	21:08
alterego	czr, you could write a script to do that easy :P	21:08
sp3000	czr, sort?	21:08
alterego	Does grease monkey have the ability to run external scripts to generate content?	21:09
czr	sp3000, no	21:09
alterego	If it does you're sorted :)	21:09
czr	take for example: Opened 2007-10-05, Changed 2007-11-01. I want to see '16 days ago' instead of 2007-11-01	21:09
czr	alterego, yes I could. and then what?	21:10
alterego	Isn't that what you want?	21:10
czr	alterego, I prefer to use a browser directly with bugs.maemo.org :-)	21:10
czr	to write my own script? no. not really.	21:10
alterego	czr, you can. That's what greasemonkey does.	21:10
czr	bleh	21:11
czr	I don't use greasy monkeys	21:11
alterego	It's like advanced xslt.	21:11
czr	all my monkeys are squecky clean!	21:11
alterego	I don't use it either. I'm just giving you a solution :P	21:11
czr	I don't like xslt :-)	21:11
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sp3000	dom rather	21:11
alterego	xslt is okay.	21:11
czr	well, dom I can live with.	21:11
alterego	Erm ..	21:11
czr	but still, it's not worth it	21:11
alterego	I meant it functions similar to XSLT, you can piss around with the content.	21:12
alterego	It'd take you 10 minutes ..	21:12
czr	nothing ever takes only 10 minutes.	21:12
czr	especially things that should take 10 minutes.	21:12
p\|	the problem with all this python/ruby calendar/todo/appointment is that they require to be running always on, no daemon...	21:12
alterego	Why would a program need a daemon?	21:13
sp3000	czr: wouldn't a limit be sufficient though for what you probably want to do	21:13
alterego	(not with-standing the effort to make python startup faster	21:13
czr	sp3000, I don't know what I want to do. it's just hard to calculate relative time based on two arbitrary date-stamps :-)	21:13
czr	sp3000, never mind. I'm just cranky :-)	21:14
sp3000	i.e. tack on &chfieldfrom=x on the query	21:14
sp3000	oh, but, hm, you probably want it the other way around	21:14
czr	"'x' is not a legal date."	21:14
czr	haha	21:15
* czr gets only illegal dates		21:15
czr	I want to see all the bugs. so it's not really limits what I'm looking for	21:15
czr	I just want to see whether some bug might need more input from me or not, based on how long ago was the last time that something happened to it	21:15
sp3000	ah, chfieldto rather	21:15
sp3000	sorrry	21:16
sp3000	1d is a legal relative time	21:16
czr	hmm. but that shows bugs that were opened and changed during the same day. nothing else :-)	21:17
czr	which is slightly weird :--)	21:17
czr	(1d with chfieldto)	21:17
czr	or hmm. wait. no.	21:17
czr	bah. I don't care really. food ->	21:17
czr	thanks for trying though sp3000	21:17
sp3000	czr: e.g. https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?chfieldto=900d	21:18
keesj	the new gmail is almoost not usable of the n800	21:18
* sp3000 generally uses the /h/ version, it flexes better		21:18
* sp3000 would like to have such a version for reader, too :+		21:19
sp3000	:\ even	21:19
keesj	anybody using the imap interface now?	21:19
sp3000	(reader is _heavy_)	21:19
sp3000	(and the mobile variant or reader is too ...uh, mobile or something)	21:20
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sp3000	(3 roundtrips to real content, or somehing	21:20
sp3000	)	21:20
keesj	i guess i will need to start using vnc to get back some performance	21:23
maddler	planet is dead again...	21:23
czr	haha. bug 2263	21:25
_Monkey	Bug 2263 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2263	21:25
* czr was reading through some of the older bugs		21:25
czr	-> afk. alterego, good luck and perseverance!	21:26
czr	and have a nice evening all too	21:26
alterego	See you	21:26
* sp3000 should probably look into running an aggregator		21:26
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pupnik770	odd, xchat on 770 has no fullscreen apparently	21:35
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K`zan	Morning all.	21:43
pupnik770	hi-ya	21:44
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lopz	brb	22:02
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lopz	re	22:09
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amr	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cellphonetool/	22:13
amr	anyone used that?	22:13
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Jaffa	Nope - would be handy if it had some screenshots ;-)	22:14
amr	yeah it would	22:14
amr	i might install it now and give it a go	22:14
amr	hm, which is the one for os2006	22:14
amr	thats mistral, isn't it?	22:15
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alterego	Sure,	22:16
Jaffa	Or gregale	22:16
_Monkey	gregale is something else entirely	22:16
alterego	Or gregale.	22:17
_Monkey	gregale is something else entirely	22:17
alterego	_Monkey, forget gregale	22:17
_Monkey	alterego: I forgot gregale	22:17
amr	which is the later one?	22:17
Jaffa	_Monkey: forget gregale	22:17
_Monkey	Jaffa, I didn't have anything matching gregale	22:17
alterego	gregale is the newer one.	22:17
amr	ok cool	22:17
Jaffa	_Monkey: gregale is the codename of the last IT OS 2006 release	22:17
_Monkey	...but gregale is the newer one....	22:17
Jaffa	_Monkey: forget gregale	22:17
_Monkey	Jaffa: I forgot gregale	22:17
Jaffa	_Monkey: gregale is the codename of the last IT OS 2006 release	22:17
_Monkey	OK, Jaffa.	22:17
amr	is it possible to use the bluetooth functionality with python?	22:18
alterego	There should be obex bindings somewhere ..	22:19
K`zan	Is there and IRC client for 2008 yet?	22:20
K`zan	and/an	22:21
shackan	pidgin works ok	22:22
K`zan	Thanks, will check that out - thought it was just an IM client :-).	22:22
* alterego wishes he could customise the colour pallette used in osso-xterm.		22:23
Jaffa	It's got an IRC transport	22:23
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K`zan	xchat on 2007 was kinda small for these old eyes :).	22:24
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pupnik	i like the OS2006 audio player tbh	22:33
p\|	can i disable matalyer-crawler ?	22:34
pupnik	heh good question	22:35
p\|	whats his task ?	22:36
pupnik770	scanning for media?	22:37
pupnik770	which is silly because all the directories get rescanned when i open a file browser	22:37
pupnik770	that's rather slow	22:37
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keesj	planel is no londer linked from the front page?	22:42
keesj	sorry garage news	22:42
alterego	I must be compiling this loader wrong.	22:46
zerojay	pupnik770: metalayer-crawler is for automatically adding music and videos on your SD cards and internal memory to the media player library.	22:49
pupnik770	mkay	22:50
pupnik770	audio player still scans my directories whenever i 'open file'	22:51
pupnik770	i think this is kind of lame	22:51
pupnik770	i can't target a directory	22:51
alterego	Hmmm .. hildon-desktop wont even autoconf ..	22:51
pupnik770	cause it keeps adding directories as it scans them	22:51
pupnik770	and they keep shifting down in the directory list	22:51
pupnik770	so you have to wait	22:51
pupnik770	and wait	22:51
pupnik770	for the whole list of subdirectories to be scanned	22:51
p\|	ok	22:51
pupnik770	before you can select a subdirectory	22:51
pupnik770	then repeat the process	22:51
p\|	i stopped and revoed it	22:51
pupnik770	and it's about	22:51
pupnik770	as	22:51
pupnik770	annoying	22:52
pupnik770	as watching	22:52
p\|	removed*	22:52
pupnik770	me type this	22:52
alterego	That was pretty annoying :P	22:52
alterego	Hmm .. Odd. Builds with dpkg-buildpackage.	22:53
p\|	finally i'm back to OS2007 :)	22:53
alterego	p\|, 2008 not good enough?	22:53
p\|	no	22:54
alterego	What's wrong with it?	22:54
p\|	it lack too many apps	22:54
alterego	Like what?	22:54
p\|	pand in primis	22:54
alterego	You could have helped port them :P	22:54
p\|	unfortunately i need it with my phone :(	22:55
alterego	Why didn't you compile pand?	22:55
alterego	I would have used it.	22:55
p\|	hehe i'm not a developer :)	22:55
alterego	You don't have to "develop" it. You just have to build it.	22:55
p\|	only a (VERY) little scripter	22:55
zerojay	pupnik770: Why would you use Open File in media player? All your files are already in the library.	22:55
p\|	i love os2008 interface	22:56
pupnik	i am using audio player	22:56
pupnik	let me check	22:56
alterego	zerojay, only when they're scanned by metalayer crawler :P	22:56
p\|	but i think i'll wait for the official version	22:56
alterego	I'm not sure I could go back.	22:56
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zerojay	I can't.	22:56
p\|	alterego: why not ?	22:56
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alterego	It has everything I need and I mainly want it to continue developing ruby-maemo for chinook. It's been a great help ..	22:56
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zerojay	The upgrade has so many fixes and stuff I need.	22:56
alterego	2008 is such an improvement ..	22:57
p\|	i also need xchat, claws-mail,gnumeric	22:57
alterego	xchat? pfft.	22:57
p\|	zerojay: for example ?	22:57
alterego	I still don't understand why you don't get the packages and compile them yourself.	22:57
alterego	You'd be doing everyone (including yourself) a big favour :P	22:57
zerojay	Fixes to the Jabber client, a browser that no longer crashes, etc..	22:57
alterego	It's crashed once in the past 3 days :)	22:58
alterego	For me.	22:58
alterego	Not sure that was the browsers fault though ..	22:58
p\|	i'm very noob to dev.	22:58
p\|	and have not much time to learn unfortunately	22:58
alterego	I think I'll start using bleeding edge libraries too :)	22:59
alterego	Well, the ones I can compile ^_^	22:59
p\|	when primary applications (for my use) will be available, than i switch again	23:00
zerojay	pupnik: The entire time I've had my tablet.. maybe 8 months now, I've never even once used Open File in Media Player... so maybe you just don't know about the library or how to get to it.	23:00
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GreySim	Anyone know if it's possible to rename a memory card on a 770 in OS2007HE? Using the September version as I keep getting disconnected trying to download the new one, but even turning swap off and rebooting, the name change from File Manager doesn't seem to be doing anything...	23:02
zerojay	Your card might be damaged.	23:02
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GreySim	Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised, honestly.	23:03
zerojay	Nor would I because almost no one knows how to properly use cards anyways.	23:04
GreySim	Oh, weird, the faded memory card icon apparently doesn't actually get used, because I replaced the standard one with a custom icon, but not the faded one, but it just faded my custom one on the fly...	23:04
pupnik	zerojay: it2006 has "Audio Player" and "video Player" - which do you refer-to?	23:05
pupnik	anyway the issue i was addressing is ~not~ limited to the audio player	23:06
zerojay	pupnik: Er.. I don't know because as far as I know, media player is one program that does both. And it's just called Media Player.	23:06
pupnik	it is the nature of the file selector in it2006	23:06
pupnik	in it2006 clicking on menu gets you: Audio player // Video player // RSS feed reader // File manager	23:06
GreySim	Any tips on how to test for damage? My desktop system is Linux if that helps...I've just never had to do this.	23:07
* GreySim is currently backing up the card to reformat it just to see if that somehow helps any.		23:07
zerojay	I don't remember ever seeing separate audio and video players.	23:07
zerojay	You must have something else installed.	23:07
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pupnik	regardless, the issue is with the file-chooser in hildon, which is impossible to click on directories	23:08
pupnik	until it has scanned on all subdirectories	23:08
zerojay	That's not really an issue.	23:08
pupnik	unless you enjoy the video-game aspect of directories in a list moving around	23:08
pupnik	it is a waste of time and a UI error	23:08
zerojay	It's neither.	23:08
pupnik	you like waiting 20 seconds to change a directory?	23:08
zerojay	It's just the reality of a slow CPU being used with slow media.	23:09
pupnik	there's no need for the file chooser to scan each subdirectory	23:09
zerojay	No, but it's not like there's any way to fix it.	23:09
* GreySim would rather it showed nothing until it was done building the directory list, personally, and the list not jumping around once it is displayed.		23:09
pupnik	hence, it's a UI design problem	23:09
zerojay	I'm almost convinced we're not talking about the same thing here at all.	23:09
pupnik	GreySim: why does the file opener need to show you how many 'items' a directory has?	23:10
pupnik	that's just microsoftian featuritis	23:10
zerojay	Because it's helpful?	23:10
pupnik	it is not	23:10
GreySim	pupnik: Yeah, I agree.	23:10
zerojay	It sure is.	23:10
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GreySim	It could be helpful. But personally I never use it.	23:10
zerojay	Wastes less time than actually going into every directory to find the right one.	23:11
GreySim	Does it still do that if you use the small view? The default one on OS 2007?	23:11
GreySim	When trying to figure out which directory is the one I need, the number of items in them is never a factor as far as I can remember. The only time I could ever see that being useful is just knowing if the directory is empty or not, but I'd rather it save the time by not counting and letting me just jump in and out.	23:12
zerojay	That's the thing.	23:13
zerojay	You wouldn't be saving very much time at all.	23:13
zerojay	Not enough to even notice it.	23:13
GreySim	Well, regardless of the causes, I agree that the file manager in 2006 is seriously screwed up. I was just using it last night, and I just reflashed to 2007 today because that was one of the things that seriously irked me about 2006.	23:14
zerojay	I never got much of a chance to play with 2006.	23:15
GreySim	Lucky you.	23:15
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amr	whats wrong with it?	23:18
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vegai	How does the Media Player work these days?	23:21
zerojay	Very well.	23:21
GreySim	amr: Actually, I guess my reasons are fairly unique, so probably not worth relating. Among other things, aesthetics. The Plankton theme is reason enough for me to upgrade to 2007HE. >.>	23:22
kaltsi	meh installing kagu fails	23:23
* GreySim cares about usability more than shininess, but given the choice between two things which are roughly identical, will choose the shiny one.		23:23
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pupnik	first report of n810 shipping retail in chicago today	23:27
zerojay	I'm still waiting on that Nokia e-mail.	23:28
GreySim	My odd love of shiny things also leads me to do crazy things like change system fonts and fiddle with .fonts.conf files for two hours trying to figure out the format and options and tweak the font rendering settings to be just right. >.> http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g294/GreySim/fonts.png	23:30
zerojay	Font's not bad.	23:32
zerojay	http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1FuAzS	23:32
zerojay	I love OS2008.	23:32
GreySim	It's the one from the Android stuff. Droid Sans 14 with no hinting and no subpixel rendering. Droid Serif in FBReader also looks really good with those settings. The default settings make some of the characters look weird otherwise.	23:33
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pupnik	nokia.de shop still not listing n810	23:34
pupnik	GreySim: agree on plankton	23:34
zerojay	Plankton's pretty cool in 2008 with the transparencies.	23:34
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pupnik	GreySim: would be nice to have a dark theme like plankton, with dark border around apps instead of white, dark background on apps etc	23:35
amr	GreySim, yeah i agree	23:35
amr	i love plankton	23:35
amr	pity it doesn't work properly on 2006	23:36
GreySim	Yeah.	23:36
amr	i was trying to copy it using thememaker but i didn't get very far	23:36
GreySim	Hmm. OS2008 doesn't let you reassign the web and contacts buttons still, does it?	23:38
pupnik	amr: what problems did you have? plankton worked OK for me on OS2006 except for two white horizontal bars in the left border	23:40
amr	yeah thats what i had	23:40
amr	it irritated me to no end	23:40
GreySim	Well, nevermind actually, I guess. I'm just gonna go back to trying to Tangoize as much of Maemo as possible despite the fact that Nokia used non-standard sized icons everywhere for no apparent reason. >.<	23:41
amr	gits >_<	23:41
GreySim	Thanks for the info though. Guess my memory card is just borked.	23:41
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tko	hmm, the top two task navigator plugins have been configurable since '07 afaik	23:47
tko	or maybe even earlier	23:47
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pupnik	"We will send you	23:50
pupnik	a notification as soon as the N810 is available in the online Nokia shop	23:50
pupnik	you selected."	23:50
pupnik	i don't recall selecting a shop	23:50
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hircus	pupnik: someone at InternetTabletTalk reported signing up at a Nokia brick-and-mortar shop, for notification, and he actually picked up his tablet yesterday	23:54
alterego	Someone got a tablet already?	23:54
alterego	Cool.	23:54
alterego	I vaguely remember selecting the online shop I wanted to use.	23:54
pupnik770	aah... if i did it was shop.nokia.de and they don't even list it :(	23:55
hircus	alterego: yup	23:56
alterego	Yeah .co.uk doesn't either. The one I selected.	23:56
K`zan	That Nokia start up screen has got to go...	23:56
hircus	Nokia ought to have a less confusing launch coordination	23:56
K`zan	Probably in flash though :-/.	23:56
pupnik770	K`zan, i'd like a flying-sphagetti monster touching adam's finger logo on boot	23:56
hircus	LetsTalk.com (Nokia US online shop) claims a backorder up to Nov 27th...	23:56
hircus	Amazon claims Nov 27th as well, I think. but MobileCityOnline claims Nov 23rd	23:57
K`zan	LOL, anything other than someone trying to grab me :)	23:57
hircus	.. and LetsTalk apparently shipped some units already, out of their initial shipment	23:57
*** K`zan is now known as K`zan_800		23:58
pupnik770	http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/other/fsm.jpg	23:58
K`zan_800	Hummm, didn't complain about the nick not being registered...	23:58
K`zan_800	pupnik770: Heh, like that one...	23:59

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