IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-11-13

czrI think it was a seriously good decision from google00:00
pc_speaker1849$275,000 to the first guy who manages to run doom :)00:00
kaltsitoo late, there was a demo already running quake..00:00
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czr"The API used to access the 3D capabilities of the platform is the OpenGL ES API."00:01
kaltsiwell ok not doom..00:01
db48xczr: cool00:01
czrI think so too00:01
czrit's used for the GUI composition as well00:01
pc_speakerSo mobile google earth possible :)00:01
pc_speakerAnd no problem with fancy 3d games...00:02
czrsure. there's an api for google map stuff as well00:02
pc_speakerBTW are there some 3d games for N800?00:02
czrpc_speaker, it will depend on the phone in question though00:02
czrpc_speaker, no00:02
timelesswhat's a 3d game?00:02
tigertpc_speaker: there are no 3d drivers00:02
czror rather, yes, but not what you mean probably00:02
pc_speakerBesides quake :)00:02
lardman|awaypc_speaker: there's doom & quake00:02
tigertand well, for gaming you want a psp00:02
pc_speakerI tryed PSP too...00:03
timelessinput methods so far for nokia products are lacking00:03
timelessat least for gaming00:03
czrdamn. even their sw stack graph looks much sexier than the ones in maemo ;-)00:03
timelessczr: url?00:03
pc_speakerI'll try to run Wolfenstein 3D in the DosBox :)))00:03
pc_speakerAnd follout too...00:03
tigertczr: hey, nothing looks more sexy than the gnome mobile and embedded graph00:04
pc_speakerBut I think fallout won't work well...00:04
timelesswebkit is listed as a library00:04
czrtigert, well. it is also sexy. but I rather like the "information comes first" approach of the android one :-)00:04
shackantigert: true! (you did it? :))00:04
tigertshackan: :)00:04
czrtimeless, the stock browser will be webkit00:05
czrtimeless, I guess the idea is that you can either use a completely different one, or one that uses webkit00:05
czrmaybe. /me shrugs00:05
danielstigert: well, i'll grab you one day in the office, or i can have people rock around here for random shenanigans.  i'll let you know when, but i guess not soon, given that you're probably tukholmalle, and i'm away this weekend (funnily enough, tukholmassa).00:05
tigertman, I need to go to a conference soon again00:05
tigerttoo long since00:05
shackanholy shit, do I read "binder (IPC) driver" ?00:05
shackanare they using openbinder??00:05
czrshackan, what is it?00:05
pc_speakerWebkit is good for mobile devices since it has small footprint...00:05
danielstigert: i assume tukholma{lle,ssa} can't possibly be right ...00:05
tigertdaniels: yes, tukholmaan, mutta ei pois laivasta00:06
pc_speakerAnd where is the webkit for N800?00:06
timelesspc_speaker: *cough*00:06
timelesswhat do you know about web browsers?00:06
danielstigert: ah, tukholmaan/tukholmas[st]a?00:06
tigerttukholmalle is wrong, tukholmaan is right00:06
shackanczr: a component based ipc system, cool stuff00:06
timelesswhat makes you an expert?00:06
tigertdaniels: gotcha!00:06
_Monkeyi think gotcha is you have to patch the system fonts00:06
czrshackan, url?00:06
danielstigert: ah, noniin :) didn't know you could do -an as well00:06
timeless_monkey forget gotcha00:06
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot gotcha00:06
czrand why is it part of the kernel? :-)00:06
timeless_monkey gotcha is <reply>00:06
_MonkeyOK, timeless.00:06
danielstigert: only -in, e.g. hki:in00:06
czrtimeless, "LibWebCore - a modern web browser engine which powers both the Android browser and an embeddable web view"00:07
tigertdaniels: dont ask me about finnish grammar00:07
{abo}Curious, what's tukholmaan?00:07
tigertdaniels: it is insane00:07
tigertdaniels: I just don't know00:07
tigertI just know how things are but I have no idea why00:07
czrabo, "into/to stockholm"00:07
timelessczr: the system-architecture graph is sufficient00:08
{abo}Thought so :)00:08
shackantimeless: I know shit about browsers too, but Alp Toker told me the other day webkit used one third of the memory of firefox in some tests (by kde people)00:08
* {abo} is in Stockholm...00:08
czrtimeless, yup00:08
timelessshackan: that's nice00:08
skiburranybody here like angle drawings?00:08
timelesskinda useless00:08
timelessthere are many possible tests00:08
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timelessi'm sure i could show you tests for just about anything00:08
db48xangles are nice00:09
shackantimeless: well, that, and the fact that I have to kill firefox a couple of times a day to free some memory :)00:09
timelessthat makes you an expert?00:09
danielstigert: yeah, native speakers usually only have a tenuous grasp of their own grammar, but for a huge table of special cases00:09
{abo}Buffy was cool too :)00:09
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skiburrI have a drawing that I could never find on the net anymore00:09
shackantimeless: <shackan> timeless: I know shit about browsers too00:10
shackansee ?00:10
_Monkeyi think see is only really good at interfacing with hardware.00:10
timeless_monkey forget see00:10
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot see00:10
timeless_monkey see is <reply>00:10
_MonkeyOK, timeless.00:10
alteregoIf I was going to do something with android ..00:10
alteregoI'd not use Java.00:10
alteregoI'd port Ruby ^_^00:10
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shackannot saying I'm an expert or anything00:10
db48xyea, java is boring00:10
czralterego, I think you can00:11
czrthe primary SDK is for java though00:11
shackanalterego: except many ARM cpus can execute java bytecode natively00:11
czrthe base libs are in C though.00:11
timelessmaemo: including the n800's00:11
timelesstoo bad there's no binding for it00:11
pc_speaker"CTO Jean-Charles Verdie was kind enough to answer my email and highlighted a number of reasons why they went for the Webkit engine rather than Mozilla engine.00:11
pc_speaker    * The licensing model00:11
pc_speaker    * Footprint and CPU usage00:11
pc_speaker    * A clean source organisation which helped in fast porting.00:11
pc_speaker    * A better standard support (acid2, ...)00:11
pc_speaker    * Benchmarks on low powered machines reported better performances at the time we began (Mozilla has improved its results since that time)"00:11
alteregoshackan, that's good. I can compile ruby into JVM bytecode :P00:11
shackannot, yet :)00:11
pc_speakerSorry for long message :)00:11
shackanpc_speaker: argh!00:11
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czralterego, the bytecode is slightly non-standard on the android I think00:12
{abo}So, what's the wordon Maemo/Android synthesis?00:12
czror maybe I misunderstood something. just causally browsing through the docs00:12
tigertdaniels: ye00:12
czrabo, you mean Maeroid?00:12
alteregoczr, yeah someone was saying that earlier .. Was that you? ^_^00:12
czralterego, I'm not confessing to anything :-)00:12
{abo}czr: Oh, there's a name for it even? :)00:12
czrabo, there could be ;-)00:13
alteregoWhat has Maemo got to do with Android?00:13
czrabo, I have no idea.00:13
alteregoWhy do people keep asking about some crappy hybrid?00:13
czrMaeroid just sounded like a sufficiently bad name for a project like that.00:13
alteregoWant a crappy hybrid? DO IT! ^_^00:13
czrthat was the inspiration for it.00:13
shackantigert: is it possible to have the os2008 theme without waiting until december? (when os2008 comes out)00:13
{abo}alterego: If you have a device that rund one, you could easily get the idea that it might be useful to be able to run the apps for the other one.00:13
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* timeless shrugs00:14
alterego{abo}, do it00:14
timelessnot worth effort00:14
{abo}alterego: Sure. :)00:14
* fysabye test00:14
* db48x tries to figure out why his scratchbox doesn't have libidl00:15
alteregoWhy not just program in Ruby and it'll run on both devices.00:15
pc_speaker -- anyone tryed this?00:15
czrah. transparency is one of the elements I see:
alteregoYou just need to make custom UI and interface with the system.00:15
timelesspc_speaker: fwiw, gecko supports acid200:15
* {abo} shrugs00:15
timelessso people making posts about acid2 are usually clueless00:15
tigertshackan: the theme wont work with current os :(00:15
pc_speakerLatest builds of gecko you mean?00:15
tigertshackan: since it relies a lot on the transparency stuff etc that will be in 200800:16
tigertthough you can get that stuff from sardine already00:16
timelessgecko is gecko00:16
timelessi'm not talking about a 2 or 3 year old gecko00:16
pc_speakerBecause my current firefox broke the acid2 test...00:16
timelesswhat's the point?00:16
_Monkeythe point is to make the user happy00:16
tigertbut unfortunately the theme is not free, as it is official product theme00:16
timelessmost people don't talk about 2 or 3 year old webkits00:16
timeless_monkey forget point00:16
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot point00:16
timeless_monkey forget the point00:16
_Monkeytimeless, I didn't have anything matching point00:16
timeless_monkey point is <reply>00:16
_MonkeyOK, timeless.00:16
tigertshackan: but I might have time for an update for plankton at some point00:16
tigertto do the transparency stuff00:17
_Monkeytigert is totally confused :-)00:17
db48xtimeless: out of curiosity, why the <reply> bit?00:17
tigertmaybe I am :)00:17
timeless_monkey forget tigert00:17
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot tigert00:17
timeless_monkey tigert is <reply>00:17
_MonkeyOK, timeless.00:17
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tigert_Monkey: you suck :/00:17
_Monkeytigert: excuse me?00:17
timeless_monkey tigert is something00:17
_Monkey...but tigert is <reply>...00:17
tigert_Monkey: you suck.00:17
_Monkeytigert: huh?00:17
timelessit's afiller00:17
||cwwhat does <reply> do00:17
timeless_monkey s s is <reply> !00:17
tko_Monkey is stupid..00:17
_MonkeyOK, timeless.00:17
timeless_monkey s s?00:17
db48xtimeless: oh, just so it doesn't pick up some new pointless thing?00:17
timelessit replies with empty00:18
tigert_Monkey is mostly annoying00:18
timeless_monkey forget s s00:18
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot s s00:18
timelessi.e., it's filler00:18
shackantigert: woot! :)00:18
elbboo infobots00:18
tigertSolarion: ?00:18
alteregoThis is getting kind of retarded ..00:18
tigertshackan: so unfortunately the 2008 theme is not free, but at least it looks pretty sweet00:18
tigertit relies a lot on the wallpaper though00:19
tigertand we are going to post some wallpapers made from our photos etc for the community once the theme is out00:19
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alteregoCrap .. Those eee's are going pretty quick.00:20
_Monkeyeee is, like, the Asus Eee PC is a tiny, cheap, Linux-powered x86 laptop:
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Solariontigert: hi00:20
_Monkeywhat's up, Solarion00:20
db48xwow, he was useful00:20
* alterego starts shaking.00:20
Solarion_Monkey: how goes?00:20
_Monkeysolarion: i don't know00:21
alteregoShould I buy one.00:21
alteregoThere's only 6 left.00:21
tigertdb48x: I was just thinking of the same00:21
Solariontigert: seen you around #gnome-hackers.  :)00:21
_MonkeyI haven't seen 'you', Solarion00:21
tigertSolarion: yeah00:21
tigertI should join #g-h again00:21
alteregoNeah, I'll wait for the next revision.00:21
tigertbut gimpnet keeps kicking me out from the server00:21
czryou're not gimpy enough?00:21
tigertI am00:21
tigertbut I am lazy too :)00:22
czrhmm. maybe your ISP is not gimpy enough :-)00:22
* Solarion goes back to pulling up floor00:22
alteregoThe battery life is supposed to improve in the next revision,.00:22
tigertanyway, gotta sleep so I can wake up for work tomorrow00:22
tigertgood night boys and girls! :)00:22
alteregoTalking of battery life. Is OS2008 supposed to last longer?00:22
czrit will last up to the end of 2008.00:22
tigertalterego: if you use viagra, yes00:22
alteregoFaster, More efficient, Last Longer?00:23
Solarionczr: that's a longbattery life.00:23
alteregoViagra? Is that like Android?00:23
Solarionalterego: It's a little blue pill00:23
czrSolarion, it would be nice though :-)00:23
Solarionczr: definitely.  :)00:23
alteregoAs opposed to the red pill?00:23
tigertI dunno, I just hear thigns from the big boys00:23
shackanfaster! harder! better! stronger!00:23
alteregoIs this some new power save mode?00:23
* timeless frowns00:23
czralthough I'd need to start using valgrind finally ;-)00:23
Solarionalterego: I wouldn't say that viagra was intended to *save* power....00:24
alteregoIf it's not green I'm not interested :P00:24
pc_speakerEnlarge your stylus :)00:24
tigertanyway, definitely the time to sleep00:24
alteregoI just need a GPS in my stylus.00:24
tigertI cannot contribute much any useful stuff here anymore00:24
tigertsee you tomorrow :)00:24
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* alterego goes for a cigarette00:24
czralterego, cool. not do you not type suprise correctly, you smoke too. now, if I'd only convince you to switch to python, you'd be a perfect clone to me :-)00:26
czrnot only even00:26
* czr needs adjustment to his lexical unit00:26
tigertczr: resistance is futile, your ass will be laminated!00:26
czrtigert, it is very tiny!00:27
zerojaytimeless: Glad to see that bug finally entered.00:27
czrtigert, so one would need to be careful.00:27
tigertanyway, night!00:27
tigertzZzZ &00:27
solmumahaczr: forget python00:27
_Monkeysolmumaha: I forgot python00:27
timelessWarning: missing newline at end of file chinook-20071107/release/alsa-plugins-1.0.14s/debian/control00:27
timelessdoes debian care about that?00:28
Solariontimeless: it's a warning, not an error00:28
timelesszerojay: yeah, i had to lean on _|NiX|_00:28
czrsolmumaha, your evil jedi tricks might work on _Monkey, but I'm not that easy :-)00:28
timelesssolarion: so i cna legally file a bug against it?00:28
Solariontimeless: surewhynot?  ;)00:28
timelesssolarion: because i don't speak debian00:28
Solarionyou can file a bug about anything you want.00:28
timelesschinook-20071107/release/clinkc-av-1.0/config/config.guess: No such file or directory00:28
timelessthat sounds like a bug00:29
timeless(typically it means a link to scratchbox)00:29
zerojaySomeone with an N810 feel like helping me check on a bug?00:30
timelessbtw, zerojay, meet _|nix|_, _|nix|_ meet zerojay00:31
zerojay_|Nix|_: hiya.. you're the guy working on Pidgin, right?00:31
alteregoWhere's gnutls13?00:32
_|Nix|_zerojay: Yeah.00:33
zerojay_|Nix|_: I guess we're rivals then. ;)00:33
_|Nix|_Wha ... ?00:33
timelesszerojay: bah, he's the guy nice enough to file the fkb bug :)00:33
zerojayThat's good enough for me.00:33
_|Nix|_zWhat exactly are we fighting over?00:33
zerojay_|Nix|_: I'm pushing Jabber to kill Pidgin. ;P00:33
zerojayI'm just kidding, of course.00:34
_|Nix|_zerojay: Oh, you mean those gateways ...00:34
zerojayI'm running a public Jabber server with all the gateways enabled and working and free for all tablet users.00:34
zerojayWell, anyone, actually.00:34
_|Nix|_zerojay: Much like ...00:34
pupnikif anyone is interested in doing something really helpful, getting xkbd virtual keyboard working with fullscreen SDL apps would be much appreciated...00:35
Tb0n3I had a check statement on my bank account, overdrawing00:35
Tb0n3never wrote it00:35
pupnikworking knowledge of X and input handling is probably required00:35
zerojay_|Nix|_: I suppose. We're pushing for other services for tablet users, showing them how to do things... stuff like that.00:35
zerojayOne click adding of various podcasts and video casts to video center...00:36
zerojayFun fun fun.00:36
elbjabber transports and pidgin solve two different problems00:36
* timeless wonders what clink-av is00:37
zerojayI suppose.00:37
zerojayWe're just kind of trying to offer everything a tablet user might want in one place.00:37
elbno harm in that00:37
elbalso, as long as jabber does not have the Pidgin concept of contact (which I believe it does not) with respect to transports, it will be shamefully behind ;-)00:38
elbof course, if one uses Pidgin as their jabber client ...00:38
elbbut, I digress from the topic00:38
zerojayI'm going to write up something in PHP for new users... so that they can sign up, add in their MSN, AIM and whatever on the site so they won't need a PC program to add the transports.00:38
_|Nix|_Yeah ... ever since I've discovered contacts, I've never looked back ...00:38
zerojayelb: That's something that's client-based and almost every decent Jabber program has had that long before Pidgin ever did. :)00:39
elbI doubt that00:39
zerojayEven the N800's Jabber client does that.00:39
elbas when Pidgin sprouted the feature, it was one of the few working jabber clients ;-)00:39
zerojayPidgin was late to the party. :)00:39
elbit's unfortunate if Jabber treats it as client-based00:40
elbthat is a weakness that Pidgin has, by design, but jabber could do better00:40
zerojayWell, Pidgin does the same thing.00:40
pc_speakerAndroid demo00:40
elbpidgin has to, as the various protocols are ignorant of each other00:40
elbbut the jabber transport mechanism need not be so00:41
zerojayI'm pretty sure it COULD be done pretty easily... if it wasn't already done.00:41
* zerojay will look into that later.00:41
Tb0n3holy fucking hell00:41
elbTb0n3: become a victim of identity theft?00:42
Tb0n3I bought a meal at las vegas airport 3 weeks ago and they just fucking charged me last wednesday00:42
Tb0n3that's what it was00:42
Tb0n318.95 for 2 burgers at burger king00:42
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Tb0n3fuck airport prices00:42
Tb0n3and their suck ass credit ways00:42
elbthat possibly violates card agreements00:43
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elb(I assume it was debit, and not a paper check?)00:43
Tb0n3on the 27th00:43
Tb0n311 days later I'm charged00:43
elbif I recall correctly from the last place I was with a card processing station, we were required to process all transactions within 7 business days00:43
elbor perhaps 7 calendar days, I forget00:43
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_|Nix|_Woah ... the "contacts" icon looks like the Maemo one O_o00:44
lardman|awayanyone know if python-central should confilict with debhelper?00:45
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pc_speaker  -- Androidology Architecture Overview00:46
_|Nix|_Yaaay ... browser history via coverflow ... *sigh* ...00:46
_|Nix|_Ooooh ... street view ...00:48
_|Nix|_Brin's accent is /almost/ gone.00:48
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alteregoASUS make phones?00:50
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pc_speakerNo, asus made a tiny notebook which some strange people compare to n800...00:54
alteregoThey make phones00:55
alteregoThe Eeepc looks nice.00:56
alteregoI think I'll get one.00:56
alteregoI need something inbetween my laptop and tablet00:56
* alterego chuckles00:56
pc_speakerGood for people with huge laptops...00:56
alteregoWell, mines pretty big.00:56
alteregoIt's the weight that kills me mostly. I don't drive so I have to walk every where or bus/train.00:57
alteregoIt takes it's toll after a whole day.00:57
alteregoI like walking ..00:57
pc_speakerUseless for guys with 12" or even 11.1" notebooks...00:57
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pc_speakerBut very handy for 15.4 and 17 folks :)))00:57
alteregoI need a bit more power than those have to offer :)00:57
alteregoYeah, mines 15.4"00:58
pc_speakereeePC is very underpowered.00:58
alterego900Mhz isn't underpowered.00:58
pc_speakerBut it's x8600:58
pc_speakerIt runs in 634 now.00:58
pc_speakerUntil BIOS update00:58
pc_speakerYeah, very strange.00:59
alteregoI think I'll wait till the next iteration. With the lower power CPU (no fan)00:59
alteregoBetter battery life00:59
pc_speakerAnd bigger screen :)00:59
alteregoMaybe, I dunno :)00:59
pc_speakerWhick takes all available space...00:59
alteregoThat would be cool.00:59
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elbI have been demanding a laptop with 12 hour battery life for years00:59
||cwthen where would you put the speakers00:59
elbthere's no reason we can't do it00:59
alteregoYou can do it now.01:00
pc_speakerI wanted the eee but bought n800 and fed my gadget addiction for some time....01:00
alteregoIt'd be very heavy though.01:00
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elbI didn't need a 10GHz processor five years ago, and I don't do anything different today than I did then01:00
alteregoYeah, I could probably get away with 800Mhz for most things.01:00
alteregoEven maemo development.01:00
pc_speakerYouTube works well01:00
pc_speakerNot like in N800 :))))01:00
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alteregoflash will be better in 200801:01
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alteregoHmm, ebuyer sold out of eeepc's anyhow.01:02
elba laptop could easily be produced with a 500MHz or so ARM or G3-ish generation PowerPC that functioned perfectly well as a general purpose laptop for most of what I use it for; put a 4GB or so solid state disk in it for the main system, as well as a spinning disk for large media (which can be spun down most of the time), omit the massive graphics adapter and attendant power-hungry memory required for 3-D games, and a 12 hour battery life is easily within reach01:02
pc_speakerIt will be sold out everywhere soon :)))01:02
elbmaybe even more01:02
pc_speaker"500MHz or so ARM or G3-ish generation PowerPC" is to slow for laptom01:02
elbI mean, my iBook G3 got 5 hours on a new battery, and that was in 2001 with a spinning disk that virtually never spun down01:03
elbpc_speaker: not at all01:03
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pc_speakerDon't wake up PAlm Foleo ghost :))))01:03
alteregoWell, you can have the nice low power PowerVR core in the SoC for compiz/beryl :)01:03
elbI'd be perfectly content with a 500MHz G3-class processor01:03
alteregoGotta have some candy every now-and-again ;)01:03
alteregoI think 800 is my lower limit as far as a workstation is concerned.01:04
derfI'd rather underclock a newer processor that uses smaller lithography and can dynamically shut pieces of itself off.01:04
pc_speakerI prefer for battery time over effects on mobile platforms...01:04
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elbwe're not talking about a workstation, we're talking about a laptop01:04
alteregopc_speaker, the point is it won't severly drain that battery.01:04
pc_speakerCompiz is overkill for pocket devices :))))01:04
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elbmy laptop is a glorified X terminal and web browser a large portion of the time01:04
alteregoMy laptop ..01:05
alteregoWell, it's a POS01:05
alterego~4 years old01:05
alteregoWasn't particularly good back then either.01:06
elbmine was OK when it was new, but the death of the media bay battery has confined me to 2.5-3h away from mains01:06
elbwhich is PITIFUL01:06
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alteregoThe battery doesn't work in mine.01:06
elbanything that won't make a transatlantic flight is pathetic01:06
alteregoHas to be plugged in01:06
elbwhich means basically all laptops, I guess ;-)01:06
shacka1elb: puh01:06
alteregoAnd internet tablets :P01:07
timelesshow long are transatlantic flights these days?01:07
pc_speakerOLPC is available too :)01:07
* timeless is pretty sure most tablets won't make it01:07
shacka1elb: I do as much with an almost new battery, and never drained it yet01:07
timelessi think cranking an olpc counts as cheating01:07
zerojayAren't they like.. 6 hours?01:07
shacka1timeless: lol...01:07
zerojayMaybe 8?01:07
elbtimeless: about 6:30 one direction and 7:30 the other, I think01:08
elbdepends on where to where, of course01:08
timelesstheoretically that's doable w/ a tablet01:08
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shacka1timeless: in standby?01:08
timelessand possibly some laptops w/ that extra battery in the bay and max power configured01:08
timelessnot standbye01:08
pc_speakerNot watching a movie :)01:08
elbthere have been various laptops over the years which could do it, but generally not without some gyrations and luck01:08
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pc_speakerN800 last for one full time movie in mplayer...01:09
elbas I said, my iBook G3 got 5 hours in 2001, that's close01:09
alteregoYou can plug in the tablets in planes now.01:09
pc_speakerApple has strong batteries...01:09
pc_speakerSometimes exploding...01:09
elbApple *had* !x8601:09
elbx86 is a filthy power whore01:09
pc_speakerBut it's OK :)))01:09
elbthe newest generations are better, but still ...01:10
danielsthe thinkpad x40 will haul about 6h on the 8-cell battery, and 11h or thereabouts with the extended life battery.01:10
alteregoI think I'll strip down my spare noke charger and make a external battery pack this weekend.01:10
pc_speakerBTW can n800 be charged over USB?01:10
alteregoThink I'll also get a solar charger for next summer.01:10
elbI'm yet to fly even a transatlantic (or transpacific) flight that had power jacks01:10
zerojayI wish Nokia would sell a higher capacity battery. They would fly off the shelves.. if they can put it into the same amount of space, anyways.01:10
elbthough people act like they're commonplace01:11
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timelesszerojay: last i checked, nokia batteries were very expensive01:11
timelessbut that reminds me01:11
elbmaybe they are if you're not in coach, which is where I invariably am ;-)01:11
timelesssomeone said there was a nokia product that operated on batteries for charging others01:11
pc_speakerEven PSP can by charged over USB :)))01:11
zerojaytimeless: I wouldn't know. I've never paid for it.01:11
* timeless goes to find it01:11
zerojaypc_speaker: PSP doesn't charge by USB.01:11
timelesszerojay: iirc it's 50<cur>+01:11
lcddhp claims ~14 hour battery life for some of their laptops01:11
zerojaypc_speaker: Only the PSP Slim can.01:11
elbthere is a nokia USB power adapter, I saw it on the accessories page01:12
pc_speakerPSP Slim is still PSP :)))01:12
elbit plugs into a USB port on one end, and the nokia power port on the other01:12
alteregopsp is cack at anything but playing games.01:12
alteregoelb yeah. That's possible.01:12
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alteregoThat would be quite handy actually.01:12
zerojayalterego: Disagree with you there. I used it for all my portable media before the N800.01:12
zerojayanyways.. bbl01:12
alteregoWould only need one plug for laptop and tablet.01:12
alteregoYeah, suppose it'd be good for video/audio.01:13
alteregoWell, adequate.01:13
zerojayBrowser's okay.. nothing special, but helpful when needed.01:13
fysaIf the PSP had a touchscreen, it would have taken over the world.01:13
pc_speakerPSP can't play non-converted  movies, but N800 can :)01:13
alteregoYes, I refer mainly to the lack of touchscreen.01:13
zerojayfysa: Touchscreens for games suck.01:14
timelessok, how would one search for a device which has disposable batteries w/ a mini nokia power output plug01:14
alteregoWouldn't be for the games.01:14
timelessfor charging nokia phones01:14
timelesssomeone claims it exists01:14
timelessbut i can't think of how to seek it01:14
alterego"USB phone charger"01:14
zerojaypc_speaker: The PSP can play almost all the same formats the N800 can.01:14
timelessnot usb01:14
fysaand/or bluetooth for a keyboard/mouse01:14
timelessstandard nokia plug01:14
lardman|backhas anyone used opengl on the n800?01:14
alteregotimeless, just make one :)01:14
alteregolardman, no, it's not possible.01:15
lardman|backalterego: in software it ought to be01:15
pc_speakerHere it is :)))01:15
_|Nix|_zerojay: "almost"? That's not much, then ... but, I guess I'm no judge ...01:15
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alteregoI tried to cross-compile mesa01:15
lardman|backalterego: I compiled it a while back as a dep for something01:15
alteregoDidn't get very far.01:15
alteregoThough, I didn't actually do anything.01:15
alteregoProbably missing deps01:15
lardman|backoh, I've probably got a binary somewhere, no idea if it works or not01:15
fysabut not having to transcode SD TV anymore quickly gets me to forget the PSP01:16
alteregoYou should team up with sciboy .. He wants blender mobile (real bad)01:16
lardman|backI want some snazzy 3D graphs01:16
* timeless grumbles01:16
zerojay_|Nix|_: No one uses Real anymore, so we can ignore that. ;)01:16
pc_speakerWill N800 blend? :)01:16
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* timeless can't figure out how to get nokia's internal purchasing tool to order it01:16
alteregopc_speaker, what the hell is that?01:16
_|Nix|_zerojay: I do ...01:17
timeless_|nix|_: any idea?01:17
pc_speakerPacked with Power: Nokia Power Pack DC-101:17
pc_speakerA busy lifestyle means you may not always be conveniently near a power outlet when you need one - but now you can be. The Nokia Power Pack DC-1 has reserve power in a pretty and portable package, so you can take the equivalent of up to three batteries** with you and recharge your mobile device when you most need it. Compatible with Nokia 2mm charging interfaces, the power pack has two charge output cables so you can easily charge two dev01:17
pc_speakerly, it will cost an estimated 105 euro, without taxes.01:17
pc_speakerThese enhancements will be available globally from the fourth quarter of 2007.01:17
pc_speaker*When supported by a compatible mobile device01:17
danielselb: fwiw, both ba and qantas have laptop power in economy plus and business on uk<->au flights01:17
pc_speaker**with battery capacity of 950 mAh01:17
_|Nix|_timeless: I dunno ... it was fairly simple for me ...01:17
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timeless_|nix|_: you ordered the dc-1?01:17
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alteregoCool, tablet & phone chargine at the same time ^_^01:17
pc_speaker105 euro is overkill...01:17
timelesspc_speaker: if nokia pays, how can i complain?01:18
_|Nix|_timeless: Dunno what that is (an airplane?). I ordered a PC. /That/ was easy.01:18
alteregoThat's more than I'm gonna pay for the N810 :/01:18
pc_speakerLucky :)01:18
fysai picked up an iGo universal charger kit the other day.  it can do battery charging with nokia/usb/ipod/anything plugs01:18
timelesshow much?01:19
pc_speakerN810 and N800 compatible :)01:19
_|Nix|_timeless: nift-o ...01:19
fysa30 usd + 5-10 per plug end01:19
timeless_|nix|_: now i just need you to help me order it :)01:19
lardman|back~lart relocation error01:19
* infobot DoSes relocation error01:19
elbdaniels: yeah, I hear things like that all the time -- but last time I flew Qantas LAX->SYD and MEL->LAX, I had no such thing01:19
_|Nix|_No I wonder how much heavier it is charged than empty ...01:20
pc_speakereeePC and N810 =)))01:20
elbdaniels: perhaps I'm just monumentally unlucky :-)01:20
danielselb: qantas definitely has it in business on their 747s.  if you ask the flight attendants, they'll generally take your laptop and put it under a spare seat to charge.01:20
fysaand the plug ends go into either a wall, car or battery charger.. with optional splitter for 2 devices01:20
elband, no love on Aeroflot (unsurprising, I don't think there were power jacks in 1973) or Delta to/from Moscow01:20
timelessdaniels: wow01:20
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* alterego wonders how scratchbox will perform on an eeepc01:21
elbdaniels: hah business, that would cement my unfamiliarity with any such service ;-)01:21
elbI would fly baggage if they'd let me01:21
alteregoThat's mobile development .. Code in your hands ..01:21
_|Nix|_elb: LOL :o)01:21
_|Nix|_elb: In Soviet Russia, we had treadmills for power jacks :o)01:22
danielselb: they're usually pretty fine with it; i've done it a couple of times now on mel<->lhr.01:22
elbdaniels: I'll try that with Delta next month on the ATL<->SVO run01:22
elbI'll no doubt exhaust my battery at some point :-P01:23
pc_speakerIntel promises N800 like devices on x86 next year. That could be interesting...01:25
pc_speakerWill make porting even simplier task...01:26
alteregoYeah .. Wonder about price range.01:26
timelessprice range isn't interesting01:26
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timelessbattery life is01:26
timelessthe price range for a device needs to be less than $30001:27
alteregoAlso, I wonder if Nokia will move from ARM to Intel in the future ..01:27
pc_speakerLike apple moved from ppc :)))01:28
pc_speakerN800 is a MID :)01:28
|Rn900 with 1Ghz x86, 1024x600, tilt sensors, tactil screen, 300$... 6h battery while playing quake, i'm all for that :P01:28
pc_speaker300$ are you kidding?01:28
pc_speakerEven 810 cost more :)))01:28
alteregoErm .. I don't think the screen should get any bigger.01:29
alteregoOr higher res ..01:29
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alteregoThe N810 screen is almost pixel perfect in my books.01:29
alteregoI can't imagine a better screen.01:29
pc_speakerI can :)01:29
|Ralterego : well 5", covering the whole front, not taking any more space... with higher res, could be very nice :)01:29
pc_speakerYes :)01:29
alteregoAn internal projector capable of 1600 widescreen .. That would be better.01:29
|Rhaha yeah01:30
|Roh yes01:30
|Rgive me HMD!01:30
pc_speakerPersonal teleportation :)01:30
ds3I'll settle for NTSC in the mean time ;)01:30
|Ri want something like Steve Mann has01:30
alteregoSeriously, they're making 1cm^2 projectors.01:30
|R a stealth, in glasses, HMD for one eye01:30
|Rthat thing is sooo slick01:30
|Rlet me find a link :)01:30
alteregoAdd a laser pointing device so you can just rotate/pan the device for point and click on the projector :)01:30
alteregoMaybe have corner sensors so it can adjust the image aspect ratio, crop resize trapezoid the image depending on distances between projection and surface.01:31
* alterego starts drifting off to sleep again ..01:31
_|Nix|_Right ... sleep ... I remember sleep ...01:32
alteregoI actually dreamt of a device. Identical to the internet tablet range. With just a few more features in 200101:32
alteregoThe projector was one of those features. Screw TV-Out ;)01:32
|Ruhm, can't find it, but there was a freakin' nice HMD :P01:32
pc_speakerApple Newton! :)01:32
* lardman|back prays that gmp3 will actually compile01:32
timelessin 2001, i had an audrey01:33
alteregoIn 2001 I had ..01:33
alteregoErm ..01:33
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timelessit was about as fast as the 770, had a touch screen, and cost about what a 770 costs today01:33
alterego800Mhz PIII and an Acorn RiscPC SA prototype01:33
timelessbut it was prettier01:33
timelessaudrey = 200mhz geode01:33
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alteregoI played with a neat Acorn prototype. It was an SA (233Mhz) A4 size tablet PC.01:34
ds3NTSC out would let you use a cheap HMD01:34
alteregoThat thing was awesome.01:34
alteregoWay before tablet PC's were as popular as they are now ;)01:34
alteregoNTSC is for kids.01:35
elbre: higher-resolution screen, an extremely high resolution B&W reflective display overlaid with the color display (a là OLPC) would be nice01:35
* lardman|back 's prayers were answered. Strange how it's a relief to see something finally compile cleanly in scratchbox01:35
timelessyou mean a micro olpc?01:35
timelessor more like some of those ebooks i've seen planned01:35
pc_speakerFor micro african kids :)01:35
pc_speakerPigmeys :)01:36
alteregoYeah, I'd like to try an eInk device.01:36
elbI mean in an "internet tablet"; I was responding to alterego's comment that he didn't see the need for a higher resolution01:36
pc_speakere-ink is expensive and useless.01:36
elbfor color display, he's almost certainly right01:36
elbbut for document reading, high-resolution grayscale is a powerful thing01:36
alteregoelb, interesting idea.01:36
pc_speakerNo backlighting is not good :)01:36
elbpc_speaker: no backlighting is very good for your eyes01:37
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czrhmm. what different deprecation defines are there for hildon?01:37
alteregoYeah, backlights hurt meh eyez01:37
alteregoczr, I came across one but I can't remember what it was :P01:37
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elbbacklit displays are very tiring for eyes, particularly in low-light situations -- reflective displays encourage sufficient lighting for proper reading01:37
pc_speakerBut you can read with very bad light around :)01:37
alteregoAnd I've looked quite deeply at hildon ..01:37
pc_speakerAnd back scared?01:38
alteregoIt's bad for your eyez.01:38
czralterego, any hint?01:38
elb(I keep my office and other workspaces quite dark, but do light sufficiently for reading)01:38
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czr(others are free to answer too :-)01:38
alteregoczr, I can tell you the differences and you can look around there.01:38
czralterego, does not compute. differences of what?01:39
alteregoAPI changes01:39
czrI'm not after API changes01:39
* alterego puts on thinking cap.01:39
czrI'm after the define to drop deprecated stuff01:39
czrsimilar to ones in GLIB and GTK+01:39
alteregoYeah, I can tell you the deprecated items and you should be able to find defines there.01:39
alteregoIf there are any.01:39
czrGTK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED for example01:39
alteregoAm I making sense?01:40
pupnikwith OS2008 we're slowly running out of things to want01:40
alteregoI'm kind of tired :)01:40
czrmaybe I'll just grep for DEPRECATED :-)01:40
alteregoczr, perfect ;)01:40
alteregoLike I said, I saw one occurance.01:40
alteregoLet me know how many you find ;)01:40
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pc_speakergrep for "I don't know how it works so don't touch this" :)01:41
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czr(+ the regular ones for GLib and GTK+)01:41
|RVGA out from the USB...01:42
pc_speakerWow :)01:42
|Rnow we need a head mounted display for single eye..01:42
ywwgcan someone help me get started with scratchbox, etc?  I'm trying to do something simple and it's not working01:43
alteregoczr, I'm gonna make a Ruby programmable bluetooth remote control helicopter for indoor use this weekend ^_^01:43
pc_speakerSamsung sells USB displays BTW :)01:43
pupnikPhoneMEAdvanced MR2 Java CDC/FP version 1.1 VM for the N800 << what is missing from that?
alteregoczr, want a "one-click-install" for that?01:43
alteregoOh, it'll be controlled by the tablet.01:43
alteregoOr a phone01:43
|Rpc_speaker oh :)01:43
_Monkeyhmmm... a phone is for voice and data01:43
fysawould that play cell phone games?01:43
czralterego, I prefer the real rc controls for thos things. they're fun though :-)01:43
alterego_Monkey forget phone01:44
_Monkeyalterego: I forgot phone01:44
* |R wants to go style with the n8x0 ;)01:44
alterego_Monkey phone is <reply>01:44
* czr needs more coffee01:44
_MonkeyOK, alterego.01:44
pupnikyes that is my question, i don't know much about java and how it needs to integrate with hildon01:44
alteregoIntegration with hildon should be easy pupnik.01:44
alteregoJust look at the Gtk bindings and add your own hildon stuff.01:44
pc_speakerJava in N800? What's next? Cobol?01:44
alteregoI don't know how to make Java C extensions though ..01:45
czrpc_speaker, it's COBOL.01:45
elbI demand a HUD01:45
alteregoI presume it's pretty simple once you get usde to it ..01:45
czrbesides, porting COBOL would be easy :-)01:45
pupnikwell if anybody is curious and interested in java there's the link01:45
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czrand the language does actually have some nice features01:45
timelessok, fwiw, i'm building a newer xref for chinook, i'll push it in +12 hours01:45
doublecuse jna (if possible)01:45
czrtoo bad it got such a bad reputation :-)01:45
doublecthat makes it really easy to use native libraries from java01:45
|Ranyone know if the OS2008 for n800 will be a different image than the one for N810?01:45
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pupnik"Right now, Java on the N800 is purely a command line affair, i.e. no Maemo GUI integration exists as yet"01:46
timeless|r: why do you care?01:46
zerojay|R: Same one.01:46
zerojayAs far as we know.01:46
|Rtimeless : to have a boot card that could work on both (for example)01:46
|Rzerojay : ok01:46
pc_speakerSo there is a way to extract it from 810 and install on 800...01:46
pc_speakerHave anyone tried this?01:46
lardman|backwhat does ## do in a #define? concatenate?01:46
timelessduring development, the images used to be the same01:46
czrwhat's up with pkg-config in 4.0 sdk?01:46
czrwhy doesn't it list the installed pc files with --list-all?01:47
timelessit's unclear that this will actually be the case for the release01:47
alteregoI don't like JAva so I'm not going to do it.01:47
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czrcan anyone verify on 4.0: pkg-config --list-all | grep gconf01:47
alteregoRuby is a far better Java01:47
timelessczr: would that require a working sdk?01:47
czrtimeless, err, I'd assume so :-)01:47
alteregoLike, Python is a better C/C++01:47
czralterego, or python is a better ruby.01:48
danielsthe kernel and initfs are the same.  the bootloader is not the same, though the one fiasco image will almost certainly contain both, as it did during development.  the rootfs may or may not be different, but this won't have any functional effect.01:48
* czr hides & runs01:48
alteregoczr, not likely.01:48
zerojayAnyone with a N810 can confirm a bug for me?01:48
alteregoPython isn't fully OO01:48
pc_speakerRuby is anime of programming languages... :)01:48
daniels(the rootfs difference, if it exists, will just be documentation: either the n810 or n800 user manual.  the software is completely device-agnostic.)01:48
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danielszerojay: go on01:48
|Rzerojay : /msg :)01:48
zerojay|R: I can't send private messages and I'm not registering to do it.01:48
alteregoRuby is Perl/Python/Java/Smalltalk/Lisp01:48
|Roh ok01:48
czralterego, forcing OO on all people is somehow a good thing?01:48
zerojay|R: Ouais, par les states.01:48
alteregoczr, it's not forced. It's just there.01:48
czralterego, so it is forced.01:49
czrjust like in java.01:49
zerojaydaniels: Bug #226501:49
_MonkeyBug 2265 might be found at
alteregoYou can be as procedural or whatever as you like.01:49
pc_speakerBrainfuck IDE fpr N800? Anyone?01:49
danielswow, that thing was useful01:49
|Rzerojay : ok, j'ai mis france parceque j ai de la famille là bas mais je suis en train de me demander si avoir un clavier azerty et le canal wifi 12-13 c est une bonne idée :P01:49
zerojaydaniels: Jabber connection issue.01:49
danielszerojay: i'll have a look tomorrow01:49
alteregoczr, Just because "_everything_ is an object" doesn't mean you have to act like it :)01:49
timelessdaniels: /join01:49
czralterego, I'll wait until you come to work for nokia in helsinki and then we'll have a showdown on the streets about this issue. (I'll whoop your ass, or at least attempt to) :-)01:49
zerojay|R: Ouais.. azerty... ca marche pas pour moi. ;)01:49
alteregoI didn't like OO much until Ruby01:49
danielstimeless: already did ...01:49
zerojaydaniels: Okay, thanks.01:50
proctoso, anyone know if the  BH-800 Headset will work with the N800?01:50
elbczr: ruby really doesn't force OO at all01:50
|Rzerojay : hehe, je mettrai de stickers, tant que c est que de settings logiciel :)01:50
alteregoI was more into Lisp and functional programming.01:50
elbit's quite a beautiful language in many ways01:50
czrtimeless, what was your question about a working sdk though?01:50
proctoI made some progress in getting a regular old bluetooth headset working01:50
procto(that is, not A2DP)01:50
elband I'm glad to see it's arriving on Maemo ;-)01:50
timelessczr: i have a source xref for chinook01:50
proctobut still not so great01:50
czrtimeless, and that helps how? :-)01:50
alteregoelb, it's pretty usable now. I'm working for desktop plugin support at the moment.01:50
czrah, you mean you don't have a working sdk setup?01:51
czranyone with working 4.0 sdk setup?01:51
zerojay|R: Peut etre un peut problematique avec le backlight du clavier. ;)01:51
alteregoczr, yes01:51
elbruby is my go-to language for pretty much everything that doesn't require super performance01:51
czralterego, can you verify one thing: pkg-config --list-all | grep gconf01:51
elbwhich is basically everything ;-)01:51
alteregoczr, it's gconf2 I believe01:51
czralterego, it should show up in the grep01:51
|Rzerojay : ah shit... j avais oublié ca haha ... bon, uh... ahh argh oh well, j vais vivre avec q=a etc ;P01:51
czrlist-all after all.01:51
alteregoI'll just check.01:51
proctoso, uh, any news about headsets on any maemo device?01:51
alteregoDuplicate definition of variable 'prefix' in '/usr/lib/pkgconfig/sofia-tools.pc'01:52
czralterego, but no gconf. right?01:52
alteregoThat's not good.01:52
czrit isn't indeed. --list-all misses a lot of packages01:52
zerojay|R: J'ai jamais utilizer un clavier azerty... ca doit etre un peut.... melangent.01:53
czrthe issue was already present in 4.0beta01:53
zerojay|R: Sorry, my french sucks.01:53
alteregoIt's in /usr/lib/pkgconfig01:53
czralterego, I know.01:53
pupnikDavid Weinehall said: "No ogg this time either =( I'm pissed about this too, but it's not my decision. You'll have to take this up with Ari, Anssi Vanjokki or similar instead, to let the management know it's a desired feature"01:53
czralterego, that wasn't the issue either.01:53
|Rzerojay : oh hehe thought it was fine since you were in qc.qc :)01:53
|Rtook a guess ;)01:53
alteregoczr, pkg-config reports correct when it's queried too.01:53
czralterego, I know that too. that again isn't the issue :-)01:53
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pupnikFeel free to send nokia feedback about ogg support :)01:53
alteregoczr, so pkg-config is lazy?01:54
alteregoOr are you thinking there's something more sinister ;)01:54
czralterego, the grep idiom is very useful when you don't exactly remember what you need or maybe a package changed the name (like hildon-libs -> hildon-1 and hildon-fm-2 and such)01:54
|Rzerojay : azerty is just well, the same as qwerty except for q=a w=z m=; and some number think that won't matter on the n810 i think01:54
czrI always think sinister. that too, is besides the point :-)01:54
alteregoczr, I know. I use grep all the time ;)01:54
zerojay|R: C'est pas un probleme. C'est juste que c'est pas ma langue maternelle (ooops, fucked that up).01:54
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czralterego, I'll try to do a silly fix01:54
|Rzerojay : theoretically mine is Czech but i forgot it in kindergarden ;)01:55
alteregoczr, I just didn't know why you were asking me to do that above 'pkg-config --exists'01:55
alteregoNow I do :)01:55
czralterego, ah, sry. should've explained01:55
pupnikif lardman gets his ogg working i am sending him some german beer or something01:55
alteregoNo matter, I'm heading to bed now.01:55
czrpkg-config stops on the first pc file in which it has problems. moving sofia.pc out of that directly fixed the problem01:55
pupnikcu alterego01:56
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alteregoGood night folks.01:56
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czrnight alterego01:56
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|Rzerojay : in the end having channel 12-13 for wifi might be more useful than a keyboard whose key i won't be looking at when typing...01:56
lardman|backpupnik: ogg's annoying me01:56
|Rzerojay : but i'm still hesitating :P01:56
lardman|backpupnik: I don't use it, am feeling quite unmotivated atm01:56
czrwhere do I report a bug in sofia.pc against? (it's the sip tools library smt)01:57
pupnikthis I can understand!01:57
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lardman|backpupnik: I should create a garage project, might get more people helping, and perhaps more motivation01:58
timelessoh right01:58
timelesssomeone was complaining about radio yesterday01:58
timelesswho was that?01:58
zerojayShit.. don't remember his name.02:00
zerojayBut there was a bug filed by some guy in Japan about the frequencies.02:00
pc_speakerN800 is steampunk for Japan :)02:00
proctoso, it looks like like to get a headset profile going on the n80002:01
pc_speakerAnd they laugh on iPhone and N95 :)02:01
pupniki dunno, sharp hasn't brought out anything cooler02:01
proctoI'm going to have to purchase the Jabra A21002:01
zerojaytimeless: #224902:01
proctoplug that into a 2.5mm->3mm adapter02:01
proctowhich is plugged into the n80002:01
pupnikpc_speaker: ok, what does japan have that's better than n800 for mobile linux?02:01
proctoand then use my bluetooth headset and pair to that02:01
derfI don't know, they seemed to like my N800 when I was in Japan.02:02
pc_speakerSony UX :)02:02
_|Nix|_Wow! It wouldn't let me order an OLPC from my Finnish IP ... even though the shipping address was in Canada ...02:03
_|Nix|_I had to run it through vnc ...02:03
lardman|backpraise be to ASMFLAGS02:03
pc_speakerI wonder why it is limited?02:03
* pupnik coughs up coffee02:03
timelesswhy what is limited?02:03
pupnik2699 euro?!?!02:03
zerojayI wonder the same thing about Rhapsody.02:03
timelesseach locale added costs a lot of money02:03
pc_speakerOLPC sales...02:03
_|Nix|_pc_speaker: Well, it clearly says US & Canada only ...02:03
pc_speakerBut WHY? :)02:04
timelessrhapsody is a limitation by real, not nokia02:04
zerojayLet's put it on all our internationally sold tablets (not just those with wifi only for channels 1-11).02:04
_|Nix|_pc_speaker: ... but the system should be smart enough to realize that my parameters lie within those bounds ...02:04
zerojaytimeless: Yeah, I know.02:04
|R /clear02:04
_|Nix|_pc_speaker: My IP shoulw be irrelevant.02:04
zerojaytimeless: Just sucks for international users that got a taste of it and liked it only to find out they can't pay for it.02:04
pc_speakerOLPC is an interesting piece of technology.02:05
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zerojayI suppose you could always just pay though a proxy.02:05
timelesszerojay: hey, i used rhapsody02:05
timelessit's a great service02:05
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czrbug report a day keeps another release away.02:05
* czr sings slightly02:05
zerojaytimeless: Yeah, I liked it too... but when you can't pay for it... :)02:05
* timeless shrugs02:05
timelessnokia's offering me a trial of their service02:05
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pc_speakerI like Real support in N800, I can watch and listem Berkeley lectures on it :)02:06
timelessit's not even worth trying though02:06
zerojayI'd pay for it except I'd have to use an open proxy... and honestly, who wants to send credit card details through those?02:06
zerojaytimeless: Ovi?02:06
zerojayAh, okay.02:06
timelesswhich is a UK only service :)02:06
zerojaytimeless: Is that coming to the tablets?02:06
timelessthey're giving us a phone w/ logging for 3 months02:07
zerojayOh, okay.02:07
timelessso they log everything we do02:07
pc_speakerNokia Music. Your music. Your way.02:07
timelessin exchange, i get a decent bt gps02:07
pc_speakerN800? No way!02:07
zerojayTo see what they can approve on and so on.. focus group.02:07
timelesspc_speaker: iirc no mac or linux either02:07
timelesszerojay: maybe02:07
timelessthey don't seem to have any good way for me to give thousands of bug reports02:08
zerojayThousands.. haha.02:08
timelessthe group is probably much larger than their normal groups02:08
danielsrhapsody is pretty rubbish as far as i'm concerned, the selection is crap, and drm is a dealbreaker02:08
timelesszerojay: consider...02:08
pc_speakerthousands sound scary :)02:08
danielsi'd much prefer to throw my money at bleep02:08
* zerojay considers.02:09
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_|Nix|_Hmmm ... I had forgotten how sweet Xvnc is ...02:09
zerojayI'm screwing around with mp3tunes.. not sure if Rhapsody or mp3tunes would help me much because most of the time I'm at wifi, my music is already with me (at home or at work).02:09
timelessto be fair, that's over closer to 8 years02:10
timelessand i only have 3 months02:10
timelessbut there are at least 10 products in this stupid phone02:10
timelessand i'm fairly certain i could find at least 10, probably closer to 100 bugs per app02:10
zerojayMy company's bugzilla's at 15k.. and I think I own about 2k of it.02:10
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zerojayAnd I haven't filed a bug in over 8 months.02:10
pc_speakerMy bugzilla is biggers than yours!02:11
timelessi file in spurts02:11
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timelesspc_speaker: that's a fun one02:11
timelessat this point, the group w/ the best chance, afaict is sun02:11
timelessif they export a significant portion of their bugtracker, they win02:11
derflardman|back: I wish I had more time to help with Vorbis.02:11
derfHow far did you get?02:12
pc_speakerExtreme programming is when no bugs are fixed.02:12
* timeless prefers when no bugs are found02:12
zerojayIt's amazing how many crappy proprietary custom bug databases there are out there.02:12
timelessbut the sun people objected to zarro boogs02:12
timelessthey were afraid their customers wouldn't get it02:12
zerojaytimeless: We changed that too because not most people using ours aren't native english speakers and wouldn't understand.02:13
zerojayQuips off also.02:13
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timelessyeah, i told them to at least moderate quips and probably set quips to off by default02:13
timelesszerojay: you still owe me a list of customizations :)02:13
zerojayOooh.. right.02:13
zerojayForgot about that.02:13
timelessi really need to make some sort of survey form system02:14
zerojayThe main thing that's customized is the main buglist.02:14
timelesspreferably in some way that people can run a script and get the answers02:14
zerojayI like ours so much more than the standard bugzilla look.02:14
timelessthen review the answers to verify there's nothing confidential02:14
timelessand then submit them02:14
zerojayLet me see if I've got a picture somewhere.02:14
* timeless ponders02:14
timelessi need to try to find a query that looks for people who have filed bugs in >X products02:15
* timeless suspects that isn't possible02:15
timelessdb48x? :)02:15
pc_speakerAnd then kill all of them? :)02:15
timelessfor most X, i think i'm in the set02:16
timelesssince i've filed bugs in 25 (?)02:16
lardman|backdrat, I've stumbled back upon an old error I'd forgotten about02:16
db48xtimeless: I don't think that's possible with the query ui02:17
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* timeless nods02:17
db48xwouldn't be difficult with sql, of course02:17
timelesskinda obscure thing to want to do, of course02:17
pc_speakerWe need the Black Team for testing...02:17
lardman|backnight night chaps02:18
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timelessi'd settle for a team that actually makes sure things like the vkb work02:18
pc_speaker"Finding the last bug was hard, but some testers were better than others. The company formed a group of these particular talented testers and gave them the charter to do final testing on critical software before it was sent to the customers. Thus was born the legendary Black Team."02:18
db48xfind test | perl -le 'print foreach grep { $_ ne "" } map { chomp; split "/"; $d = join "/", @_[0..$#_-2]; $f = $_[-1]; $_ if (-f "$d/$f") } <>;'02:18
db48xoh, wrong window02:19
pc_speakerWow online sex! :)02:19
timeless> For a while, the company put its efforts into training the customers to make them more tolerant of bugs.02:19
pc_speakerThat is how unixoids make love...02:19
pc_speakerfind test | perl -le 'print foreach grep { $_ ne "" } map { chomp; split "/"; $d = join "/", @_[0..$#_-2]; $f = $_[-1]; $_ if (-f "$d/$f") } <>;'02:19
zerojaytimeless: Maemo's bugzilla is what... 2.20?02:19
db48xhah, tolerant of bugs02:20
timeless<bugzilla version="2.22.1-debian2" urlbase="" maintainer="" exporter="">02:20
* timeless likes how the version isn't compatible02:20
* timeless grumbles02:20
* timeless is pretty sure that's broken02:20
timeless(there are other ways to ask bugzilla, but that is one you might not know about)02:21
pc_speakerIn Soviet Russia Bugzilla asks for you :)02:22
db48xbitten by another debianism?02:22
timelessdid debian fix bookmarks.html02:22
danielswell, they've presumably made enough modifications and applied enough patches such that 2.22.1-debian2 is just as compatible with 2.22.1 as 2.22.002:23
timelessit should say <!DOCTYPE NETSCAPE-Bookmark-file-1-debian>02:23
zerojayi think we're on 2.22.0 at work. Pushing to jump to 3.02:23
db48xtimeless: heh02:24
db48xyea, I've been trying to get ours upgraded too02:24
timelessdaniels: do you usually change file formats when you fork?02:24
timelessi mean, if you took libpng02:24
timelessand maid libdpng02:24
danielstimeless: do you usually change file formats in a patch revision? :)02:24
timelesswith the primary change being branding02:24
db48xI could see debian doing that02:24
timelessdb48x: clearly, i *do* see debian doing that02:25
db48xwhat did they change in bookmarks.html, exactly?02:25
timelessdb48x: hopefully nothing02:25
pc_speakerThey are trying to get Ubuntu behind :)02:25
timelessbut functionally what they did to bugzilla is equivalent02:25
db48xah, I see02:25
danielstimeless: my point is that if 2.22.0 and 2.22.1 are incompatible, you're doing something wrong anyway.  so, either your version field is bonghits and you need to sort it out by actually using a proper format field and not the version, or your file format strategy is bonghits and you need to sort it out.02:26
timelessand had it been <!DOCTYPE FIREFOX-Bookmark-file-2>02:26
timelesswhat would they have done?02:26
* timeless cries02:27
timelessi'm still getting lotto spam @gmail02:28
* zeenix points daniels towards the clock02:28
pc_speakerIs it new context  spam? :)02:28
timelesszeenix: it's only 2.30am02:28
pc_speakerSame here :)02:28
* timeless tries to remember what time daniels was convinced to sleep yesetrday02:28
pc_speakerSleeping is overrated.02:29
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pc_speakerSunday is the day for it :)02:29
timelessok, daniels/zeenix/someone02:29
timelessi need a sanity check02:29
timelessthis code has some defines, is it unreasonable for me to paste them?02:30
danielsshit, is it 2:30am?02:30
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danielstimeless: what sort of defines?02:30
* svu cannot wait for n810 availability....02:31
svudaniels, hi:)02:31
danielssvu: evening :)02:31
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shacka1android wins02:32
shacka1hands down :(02:33
pc_speakerVery interesting time for mobile development... Androing and iPhone SDK in february...02:34
pc_speakerWill join Windows Mobile and Symbian...02:34
pc_speakerAnd RIP Palm.02:34
pc_speakerYou was good thing before...02:34
shacka1I just found some palm code in the sdk btw :)02:34
pc_speakerHope it's not unicode support :)02:35
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shacka1nope, it's the IPC mechanism they bought from BeOS but never put into production (and it was a real shame)02:36
pc_speakerBuilt in media playes doesn't display russian mp3 tags properly...02:36
pc_speakerAnd Kanola too...02:36
pc_speakerThis is annoying.02:36
pc_speakerAnyone has the solution?02:37
* svu +1 pc_speaker 02:37
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pc_speakerBeOS... They did a nice try.02:39
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pc_speakerBeBox was fun computer.02:39
pc_speakerAnyone knows where are the roots of Nokia tablets?02:41
pc_speakerWhose idea it was?02:41
deejoe /02:41
timelessnot i :)02:41
deejoehold on02:41
pc_speakerNokia had some shame based on s90 whick looked like tablet...02:41
timelessthe 770 ui specs are derived from s9002:42
pc_speaker770 predecessor :)02:42
timelessbut if you're asking whose idea it was... that's different than where the bad ideas came from :)02:42
svuis s80 dead completely?02:42
pc_speakers90 is dead now...02:42
svuit was promising...02:42
timelessnot quite dead yet, afaiu02:42
pc_speakerAnd s80 too...02:42
timeless9300is still ship02:42
proctoI wonder who hard it is to have to a symbian emulator running on the n800?02:43
deejoeoh, not that kind of root02:43
proctothere's some s60 software that would be nice to have on the n80002:43
timelesswht do you mean emulator?02:43
timelesswine like?02:43
pc_speakerIt will ruin nokia business :)02:43
svutimeless, "still ships" = "yesterday". "dead" = "no future models"02:43
proctoI wasn't being specific on purpose :>02:43
timelessbecause there isn't enough cpu power to do qemu style...02:43
proctoI meant "whatever might work to have s60 apps run on IT devices"02:43
pc_speakerCobol :)02:44
proctoare they mostly java?02:44
timelessa sizable portion of s60 apps are java02:44
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timelessso get java, and you can have them02:44
pc_speakerAre you sure?02:44
proctothat's another thing the n800 needs :>02:44
timelesswriting a symbian portability layer would be more painful02:44
pc_speakerI thought s60  is all about C++...02:44
proctoI mean, heck, the cpu is supposed to have java optimizations and stuff02:45
timelessi just installed a couple of java apps on my brand new n81 8gb02:45
czrprocto, there's no support for the 'java optimizations and stuff' in maemo02:45
pc_speakerSlow as hell?02:45
proctoczr: I know02:45
czrit's not entirely unproblematic too02:45
czrah, ok02:45
proctoI just wish that wasn't the case02:45
timelessdaniels: so um... how is one supposed to "officially" build the kernel?02:46
timelessit's not part of the normal build infrastructure02:46
timelesswhich means my primary xref doesn't have it02:46
danielstimeless: git clone git://ok/osso/git/linux-mumble, then make nokia_2420_defconfig02:47
danielsreplace mumble with a word ending in e02:47
* timeless nods02:47
danielsczr: _ending_02:47
timelessi have that in an xref02:47
danielstimeless: right, then just make nokia_2420_defconfig && make, to build it02:47
czrevil and vile combined.02:47
timelessczr: vile ends in e, evil doesn't02:48
pc_speakerDon't be eval()02:48
* czr signs02:48
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czrshould get some sleep though.02:48
czrtimeless, I'll bug you with browser bugs then I guess02:48
czrgetting a 810 tomorrow methinks02:48
hircusprocto: there's a Newton emulator, though02:48
hircusczr: tomorrow?02:48
_Monkeytomorrow is fine, just as the next week and...02:48
czrhircus, yes.02:48
hircuswhen did it come out?02:49
timeless_monkey forget tomorrow02:49
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot tomorrow02:49
timeless_monkey tomorrow is <reply>02:49
_MonkeyOK, timeless.02:49
czrafaik it didn't hircus.02:49
hircusah. developer discount? I thought you guys get it at the same time02:49
hircusor.. you're a Nokia employee02:49
proctohircus: I saw that02:49
czrI don't qualify for dev discount.02:49
svuhircus, the promo codes are already broadcasted. so it is only matter of availability in the web shops:)02:50
* timeless goes reading02:51
svuwell, sent to the respective developers:)02:51
hircustimeless: emailed, actually02:51
timelessthat's different02:51
hircussvu: yup. the Maemo SDK release announcement said the devices are being sent to distribution channels02:51
hircuswould love to know exactly when, though. this friday? next week?02:51
svuhircus, so, checking nokia site every 15 mins;)02:51
hircushopefully before the Thanksgiving break02:51
hircussvu: yeah, that might work. threaten them with a Slashdot-esque DDOS if they don't announce a date :)02:52
svuhircus, :)) precisely02:52
* timeless frowns02:52
timelessis it me, or do not all drivers agree on the value for that ?02:52
czri'd expect is well prepared against such things02:52
czrtimeless, either a byte offset or endianess problem?02:53
elbyeah, I'm hoping to get my 810 before I hare off to Siberia02:53
hircustimeless: maybe the lower 4 bits don't matter02:53
timelessczr: did ever fix its stupid rss?02:53
elbideally, in time to get everything working before I go02:53
timelessczr: endianess i suppose...02:54
hircuselb: Siberia -- oil job?02:54
czrtimeless, rss? don't know. my beef was with the title of rhapsody02:54
elbhircus: no, family02:54
timelessczr: they fixed that one :)02:54
czrand seriously, I don't know/care.02:54
elb(who do have oil jobs)02:54
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czrah, ok02:54
timelessno longer has the test entry....02:54
czrah, that one. tee-hee :-)02:54
hircuselb: ah. anywhere near where they're doing the Winter Olympics -- Sochi, was it?02:55
timeless~yes, we did that intentionally last friday~02:55
timeless~you did what~!~02:55
czrheh timeless02:55
czrthat's what production systems are for.02:55
timelessseriously, i called them and asked....02:55
timelessthat was pretty much what they said02:55
elbhircus: "near" is *entirely* relative in Siberia ;-)02:55
czrtimeless, I've seen worse though02:55
hircuselb: very true. one day by train = near?02:55
elbthough Sochi is actually in the European portion of Russia02:56
elbI'll be going just East of the Urals -- probably a full day or more by train from Sochi02:56
hircuselb: ah02:56
czrtimeless, lost production capacity in one company because some idiot decided to install some reporting package on one db machine and that whole machine broke down (sw-wise)02:56
czrtimeless, and they never even told anyone what they were doing and just left off for a vacation. you can imagine the surprise next monday02:56
czrit was interesting to fix the system though02:57
czrbut I think now would be a very fruitful moment for me to retire for the night.02:57
czrnight ->02:57
* timeless wonders what this is
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danielsif only the sources were public03:04
timelessfor which? radio?03:04
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timelessfrom memory, certain pieces of the code were really ugly :)03:05
* timeless looked about a year ago :)03:05
danielsyeesh! still are.03:05
danielsthat driver was just written by the hw guys, which shows.03:06
timelessi'm not commenting on that :)03:06
timelessoh, and i'm talking about the client, not the driver03:06
elbnever give an engineer a compiler ;-)03:06
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timeless,me chuckles03:07
* timeless chuckles03:07
timelessevery time i look for anything radio related, i hit garage/mplayer/trunk/stream/tvi_v4l2.c03:08
timelessso something can be mono, stereo, or lang1 or lang203:09
timelessbut it can't be lang1+stereo?03:09
timelessdaniels; ok, um03:11
timelessunless i'm missing something, this isn't possible03:11
timelessoh heh03:12
pc_speakerBye everyone :)03:12
* timeless likes that03:13
timelessthe first hit was "Compile tested only"03:13
pc_speakerMaybe sleep is not so bad idea...03:13
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timeless164         div = (1000 * (frq * 4 / 16 + 700 + 225) ) >> 15;03:22
timeless165         buffer[1] = (div >> 8) & 0x3f;03:22
timeless166         buffer[2] = div & 0xff;03:22
* timeless tries to figure out what that does03:22
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timelessthat's funny03:25
timeless- Taken from N800 kernel package.03:26
timelesswhat's the point of sending a patch based on what nokia published?03:26
zerojaytimeless: Is that from the fm radio player?03:27
danielstimeless: to get it into the mainline kernel03:27
timelessdaniels: but shouldn't whomever wrote it push it03:27
danielsyes, but he moved on03:27
timelessinstead of someone saying what looks like ~i took this from a source release~03:28
danielshe wasn't with the company anymore, and i guess no-one else picked up the slack03:28
timelessone more question before i go home03:29
timelessis it safe to assume the n800 doesn't have japanese regulatory approval to operate its radio in their airspace?03:29
zerojayThat's possible.03:30
zerojayI would say it's safe since they never released over there, I don't think.03:30
zerojayWONTFIX. :D03:30
timelessi'm writing a detailed comment03:30
timelessbut practically speaking, based on my reading, you can't do it w/ the kernel driver we shipped03:31
timelessthe relevant bit doesn't seem to be twiddlable03:31
timelessafaict, the mainline code has been rewritten03:31
timelessand i can not parse it at all :)03:31
timeless(that was the earlier stuff)03:31
timelessweren't you supposed to sleep? :)03:33
timelessdaniels: who owns kernel bugs? :)03:35
ds3is the radio wired up so 'arecord' can record the radio?03:37
pupnikirc can create a zombielike state similar to playing an RPG or watching television03:37
derfI know people who IRC while playing WoW and watching TV.03:38
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timelessok, very long comment posted to the fmradio bug03:58
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* zerojay goes to read.03:58
ds3is the audio from the FM radio accessible from ALSA in anyway?03:59
_Monkeyhmmm... google is my friend and you should make it \ friend too03:59
ds3been googling03:59
ds3everyone says there is a FM radio... no one has commented on how it is hooked up :(03:59
timelessread the bug report i commented in04:00
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timelessit has moderately detailed bits04:00
ds3how do I get to those?04:00
_Monkeygoogle is my friend and you should make it \ friend too04:00
timeless_monkey google =~ s/\/your/04:00
_MonkeyOK, timeless04:00
_Monkeyi heard google was my friend and you should make it youryour friend too04:00
timeless_monkey google =~ s/youryour/your/04:00
_MonkeyOK, timeless04:00
_Monkeywell, google is my friend and you should make it your friend too04:00
timeless_monkey literal google04:01
_Monkeytimeless: google =is= _Monkey's friend and you should make it your friend too04:01
timelessgood bot04:01
shacka1timeless: it's your new shiny toy?04:01
timeless_monkey is anything but shiny04:01
timelessand it's certainly not new04:01
shacka1that leaves toy04:01
timelesskick toy?04:01
timelesskinda, but i can't remember how to kill it04:01
timelessoh, heh. i just realized that _monkey's friend is google :)04:02
shacka1maybe one day IT will remember04:02
shacka1I don't want to be around then..04:02
* timeless wonders what media streamer is04:03
zerojayIt's a upnp client, I believe.04:04
zerojayOnly supports audio.04:04
zerojayRhapsody is based upon it.04:04
zerojay(Same UI)04:04
timelesszerojay: actually, i'm more interested in this other one04:07
timelesswhose name i won't mention04:07
timelesssince i can't find a public reference for it :)04:07
zerojayBoo, you're no fun. :)04:07
timelesshey, i wrote a one screenful comment at around 4am04:07
zerojayYeah, that's an accomplishment.04:08
zerojayAnd it made sense.04:08
timelesshopefully w/ limited numbers of typos :)04:08
* shacka1 check the clock04:08
shacka1oh crap04:08
GeneralAntillesAnybody know what's in the Rhapsody 2.1 update?04:18
GeneralAntillesIt's just the meta package, and seems to be missing the rest of its parts.04:19
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timelesshow much music would you expect for ~17usd?04:22
GeneralAntillesMore than I get for $12.99 USD?04:23
* timeless chuckles04:23
timelesswhat do you get for $13?04:23
_MonkeyRhapsody is a limitation by real, not nokia04:23
* timeless kicks _monkey04:23
timelesssearch for the vmware image04:24
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timelessgood dead bot04:24
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timelesssearch for the vmware image04:25
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timelesskick toy!04:25
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timeless_monkey forget rhapsody04:25
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot rhapsody04:25
timelessis $13 a month subscription?04:31
* timeless never paid for rhapsody04:31
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GeneralAntillesYes, timeless.04:32
timelessso, one album for $17, or one month of happiness for $1304:32
GeneralAntillesAlbums are $10-15 around here.04:33
timelesshere is UK (8GBP)04:33
zerojaytimeless: AHAH! That's how you kill the thing!04:36
timelessone of a couple of ways04:37
timelessit was the first way google reminded me of04:37
ds3google is too contaminated thesedays04:37
timelessiirc it's typically "find an infobot verb that is misconfigured/disabled"04:37
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l7ds how is google contaminated?04:44
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|R <- i wish they'd release something about their mesh (wireless peer-to-peer) network05:02
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ds3l7: it is a cesspool of links to vendors hawking their goods05:04
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ds380% of the time I search for something, the first 100 or so links are all: nextag, globalspec, ebay, and sites with random garbage design to match almost anything05:05
ds3the useful searches require a long list of -'s to remove the garage05:06
zerojayMaybe I search for different stuff than you do, but I think I've only had to use - maybe three times in the last year.05:06
zerojayAnd most of the stuff I want is on the first page.05:06
ds3must be05:06
ds3most of my searches are for things that I want info on, not a vendor, esp. not a vendor that just relist stuff w/o added info05:07
ds3and to make it worse, google is intentionally doing a fuzzy match; if I said stamp, I don't want links relating to stamps or any other spellings of that. and yes, I know about the advance search features and all that05:08
ds3but enough complaining05:08
l7yeah, google's been making a lot of ad revenue05:09
ds3and going down hill as far as being useful05:09
|Rds3 : i agree that as soon as you search for hardware info / review, you only end up finding crap stores and eBay :/05:09
|Rds3 : but for the rest, as zerojay said, i usually have a hit in the top10 that suits my needs05:10 is another one of those big contaminators05:10
|Roh yeas05:10
|Rtag festival05:10
ds3|R: depends on how obscure what you want is05:10
|Rds3 indeed05:10
penguinbaitits funny, I used to think of google as an underdog05:10
ds3I do not need hits 20 hits that all refer to that one single link05:10
|Rlet's got back to altavista haha ;)05:10
penguinbaitnow their as big as microsoft05:10
ds3google used to have a useful search engine that searched for what you wanted not what someones thinks you wanted05:11
|Rpenguinbait : not in terms of employee or mass yet, but soon :)05:11
* |R trying to find that 05:11
* |R trying to find that OLSR Pro Active AutoConfig plugin :|05:12
pupnikit would be nice to have a fifo writeable /dev/sdp05:20
pupniknon-blocking of course :)05:21
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TPCwhen it comes to google, I see it like this:05:33
TPCthey used to be a search engine company05:33
TPCnow they're an advertising company05:33
pupnikDelivering the most useful 'advertising' ever.05:37
pupniksearch engine, maps, office apps, collaborative apps etc05:37
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ds3advertising is useful as mind alterdrugs06:15
ds3Just say NO to ad pushers06:15
|Rchoose your own ads06:19
|RI like the Steve Mann's idea of filtering reality ;)06:19
* |R wonders if he could get around the OLSR IP distribution problem by using IPv6 proactive autoconfiguration with the MAC of the device... does the n8x0 has ipv6 support?06:21
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pupnik  some cool projects (very)06:41
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timelessso, fwiw06:48
timelessshould now have the latest chinook cross referenced06:49
* timeless sent ~900mb of data to add the updated chinook06:49
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SyntraHey guys07:27
SyntraI'm looking to see if anyone knows if the "Apple Wireless Pro Keyboard" is compatible with the N800?07:27
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|RSyntra : if it's HID it should?07:34
SyntraTheres the thing07:35
SyntraI'm not sure if its HID07:35
|Ri think i saw some talking about it on internettablettalk07:35
|Rcheck it :)07:35
SyntraYeah, I'm searching for it right now07:35
SyntraIn the topic about Apple's new keyboard someone said the old one is07:36
SyntraBut I'm not sure if they meant the Wireless Pro07:36
SyntraI'd like to be 100% sure before buying07:36
|Ri don't know :(07:36
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cofeineSunshinegood morning07:37
cofeineSunshinecat i install maemo into handalds like hp ipaq h220007:37
timelessnot out of some box....07:38
cofeineSunshinebut it is posible?07:39
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timelesswell, some portion of maemo is open source07:39
timelessso if you can port whichever pieces are needed...07:40
timelessthe question i'd ask is: "is it worth it?"07:40
timelessyou can pick up 770s/n800s for fairly cheap07:40
vegaiSyntra: don't you have a random linux box you could try that on?07:40
lopzme voy a dormir :)07:41
vegaibon nuit!07:41
|Rbonne nuit :)07:41
vegaioh, bonne.07:41
|Ryeah don't ask ;)07:41
cofeineSunshinei have ipaq handheld, but familiar-os is heap of crap;/07:41
vegaithe night is so feminine...07:42
|Rune journée... le jour ... go figure07:42
SyntraSorry, was talking to my brother.07:43
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SyntraVegai: Yeah, why?07:43
SyntraI run Ubuntu07:43
SyntraI'd just rather like to know if it'll work before I buy it.07:43
SyntraI think wikipedia just answered my question07:49
SyntraApparently there are only two Apple Bluetooth keyboards07:50
SyntraAnd since one guy said that the Apples Previous Bluetooth keyboard would work with the N80007:50
SyntraHe was therefore referring to the Apple Wireless Pro Keyboard, which I have the intent of purchasing.07:51
vegaiI mean... if it works on your random linux box, it most probably works on the N800, no?07:52
vegaibtw, does the N810 have hardware opengl?07:53
SyntraVegai: I have yet to purchase it, is the thing.07:54
vegaiSyntra: ohh, ok.07:55
SyntraAnother confirmation:07:55
SyntraI currently use the last-gen apple BT with my n80007:55
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pupnik_can't wait to try fceu with the N81008:06
pupnik_vegai: no it does not08:07
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kulvevegai: yes it still does, but no drivers, so the hw is useless.09:03
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vegaikulve: that's silly.09:08
vegaiare they trying?09:08
kulveNokia hasn't made any statement about that09:09
L0cutus<Syntra> I currently use the last-gen apple BT with my n80009:13
L0cutushave you the bug #2166 ?09:13
_MonkeyBug 2166 might be found at
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pupnik_  OpenGL benchmark on portable devices09:29
vegaican we deduce something from that?09:30
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vegaidoes the N8xx have a similar chip?09:30
vegaias the N9x09:30
pupnik_the dell axim has a powervr mbx but a different memory bus than omap2420 - the newer nokias are 2420 based but lower resolution09:31
kulvevegai: it's the same09:31
vegaiok, well that's promising09:32
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pupnik_ain't nobody promising nuthin :)09:32
pupnik_the powervr demo videos do look pretty nice09:33
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JaffaMorning, all10:43
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pupnik_  Nokia N810 gallery (flash, music)10:56
inz"Please install flash(r) and turn on javascript" - boo10:57
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:05
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bedboiwhat's up on planet maemo11:21
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Jaffabedboi: I guess Colin's feed has just been added or created and imported all his entries as having been created "now"11:34
bedboilol, today i felt to be in a nightmare11:34
bedboii just woke up, turned on my laptop as the first-as-usual-thing-to-do-in-the-morning11:35
bedboii pointed to planet maemo, and it felt like living in the past11:36
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JaffaYeah, very annoying. Might've missed something interesting.11:36
unique311found this on ITT11:37
unique311POSE isn't needed anymore..11:38
JaffaYeah, I've got the tab open but not got to it yet. It sounds intriguing from the ITT description11:38
unique311how isn't this on maemo.org11:38
unique31130,000+ os apps11:38
bedboiclosed source application.11:39
unique311if it takes advantage of the internet connection...i will be very happy.11:41
JaffaIt suggests it does (for HotSync, at least - and presumably others)11:41
JaffaAnyone tried it?11:41
unique311bout to11:41
JaffaI never got on with Palm OS, but there's bound to be loads of apps which would be helpful.11:42
unique311will let you know how it goes11:42
JaffaRemember OS/2's Windows compatibility killed it.11:42
VeggenThe PALM PIM-applications were always quite good.11:42
JaffaMeh, I found them lacking after my Psion's11:42
VeggenI used my trusty old Palm V for quite a while.11:42
Veggen(eh, Vx)11:42
Veggenand Palm III before that.11:42
unique311screen size of the applications running still suck from the look on the screenshots11:43
Jaffaunique311: take lots of photos/screenshots if it works.11:43
JaffaIt suggests you can rotate the screen to use the space better (hopefully)11:44
unique311they even looked out for 770 owners.11:44
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JaffaI wonder if it's going to be a commercial app, though11:45
unique311you need to register to download...11:45
JaffaNot got the email, yet.11:45
unique311check ur spam folder, maybe11:46
JaffaAh, got it now.11:46
JaffaEngadget have it:
JaffaApparently going to be free when released non-beta, too.11:48
JaffaLooking at the whitepaper, they're positioning it as a technology demo of their software stack for ISVs, OEMs etc.11:48
unique311engadget crashed my browser when i was looking at it.11:48
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milhouseAccess download page:
unique311that doesn't work11:52
milhousedoes for me...11:52
X-Fade_Jaffa: Hmm massive N810 ad campaign on that page ;) 2 flash banners for N810..11:52
unique311you still need to provide the information in order to download11:52
milhouseah, you mean to actually download it?11:52
milhouseright sorry was just providing a direct link rather than jump through numerous linked news articles :)11:53
suihkulokkihmm.. so now n800 is finally a pda when you install the palm env? :)11:53
unique311well not really11:53
unique311hopefully performance is much better than POSE11:53
unique311if it is, i don't see why not11:54
unique311need to fnd some free palm stuff to run11:54
milhousegarnet vm n800 deb:
unique311i'm impress, and i just started it.11:55
Jaffa allows you to get back to the planet entries before colin mulliner's :)11:55
milhousegarnet vm n770 deb:
unique311milhouse, that works.11:55
unique311feed that link to monkey11:56
unique311performance is sweet11:56
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unique311am i the only one running this right now?11:57
_Monkeyrumour has it garnetvm is available from Access, direct deb downloads 770:, N800 and N810:
milhousedoesn't look like it's been picked up on Palm Info Center ( where all the Palm geeks hang out11:58
milhouseThat knob Mike Caine hangs out there, no doubt he'll beat on Nokia11:58
milhousehe's still bitter over his free 77011:58
unique311responds much faster than POSE12:00
unique311try to install some an app see how that goes.12:01
Jaffaunique311: need piccies. I've no device to play with until I get a couple of N810s12:01
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unique311after i install the app..12:02
unique311i will take pics12:02
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pupnik_unique, the screenshots don't show an onscreen keyboard from the palm, does it use the hildon keyboard to type?12:04
unit42Dammit. Left my 770 at home...12:04
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unique311hold on12:05
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milhousewhen it says 770 I assume ACCESS are talking about OS2006 on 770? Anyone using OS2007HE should use the n800 deb?12:06
unique311no keyboard while using apps12:06
pupnik_so you use the jotter pad to enter text?12:06
unique311right now testing out memopad12:06
unique311or you can bring up the palm keybaord.12:07
pupnik_this is great news12:07
rwhitbyit seems to work well on my n80012:08
unique311same here12:08
unique311trying to install an app12:08
rwhitbyyou can even choose compatibility with various palmos devices (e.g. treo650 vs tungsten)12:08
maddlernice... being able to run Palm apps on an IT sounds kinda nice...12:08
rwhitbyit does graffitti too :-)12:08
unique311i will post picts whe done12:08
milhouseDoes anyone think Palm and ACCESS are trying to kill each other?12:08
maddlermilhouse: who knows.. Palm seems to be acting in a kinda dumb way...12:09
rwhitbynow I can transfer all the stuff over from my treo65012:09
milhousethis move by ACCESS isn't great for Palm12:09
pupnik_whoah, pose only went up to what...?12:09
maddlerannouncing new devices and OS every now and then...12:09
inzmilhouse, and users of OS2008 on N800 should probably use the N810-deb12:09
pupnik_the dragonball cpus12:09
maddlerand then announcing they will be delayed...12:09
milhouseI always thought the move by Palm to develop their own Linux OS was two fingers to ACCESS12:09
unique311i think pupnik_12:09
milhouseinz: yep, sadly not for another week or two :)12:09
pupnik_yeah 4, 4.5 something like that  and this does newer palm?12:10
unique311not even12:10
milhouseand this (Garnet) is 5?12:10
milhousewierd - it doesn't do full screen12:12
milhousewtf is "reformat storage" in settigns?12:12
infobotmilhouse meant: wtf is "reformat storage" in settings?12:12
unique311i wouldn't try that out yet.12:12
inzmilhouse, I would guess it clears out any data stored by the apps12:13
milhouseapparently it's got an expiry date - 31 May 200812:13
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milhouseinz: you try it and let me know :)12:13
milhouseholy cow, just ran the prefs app - too wierd. might have looked better in landscape mode12:14
unique311still beta.12:14
inzmilhouse, seems to do nothing at all12:15
inzoh sorry, it does12:15
unique311staying away from anything that says format.12:15
inzIt removed an event from the date book12:16
inzi.e. it removes any user data (and I guess apps too)12:16
milhouselol, I can set the time format to 24 hours!! how sophisticated is that? :)12:16
milhouseoops, just crashed it12:16
unique311installed an app12:17
unique311first crash..12:17
unique311i installed zuma..and its working.12:18
unique311milhouse what are you running it on?12:19
_Monkeyhmmm... OS2007 is better but needs more memory12:21
Jaffa_Monkey: forget OS200712:21
_MonkeyJaffa: I forgot os200712:21
milhousenot really sure i'd ever use this though...12:22
Jaffa_Monkey: OS2007 is soon to be obsolete, replaced by OS2008 on the N800 and N810.12:22
_MonkeyOK, Jaffa.12:22
milhousei last used a Palm over 4 years ago12:22
milhouseoriginal slidey Tungsten12:22
milhouseThis emulator might be useful for anyone migrating from Palm to Nokia I guess12:23
L0cutusmmm it doesn't show in landscape mode12:23
L0cutusat least on my n80012:23
milhouse320x240 would translate nicely to 800x480 with black bars top and bottom in landscape mode12:24
milhousel0cutus - portrait only it would seem12:24
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* unit42 just spread the word among our last Palm users here @work... :-) 12:25
unit42Treos that are...12:25
L0cutusi think we have a (finally) good pim ? :D12:25
milhousethis vm seems to use hardly any cpu at all12:25
JaffaARM apps aren't emulated, according to the whitepaper12:26
milhouseanyone installed any of the old 68K apps?12:27
milhouseor doesn't this vm come with the 68K emulation?12:27
milhousei would understand if it didn't12:27
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Jaffamilhouse: according to the whitepaper, it does have a 68K emulation engine, using JIT-style recompilation techniques.12:31
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milhousejust looking at trying to find something interesting (and free) to download - good god there's a lot of tat on Palm!12:31
unique311  1 screenshot of memopad12:32
unique311   zuma running12:32
unique311very fast12:32
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unique311i did a short video of zuma running.12:32
Jaffaunique311: no option to use the screen in portrait mode, or non-full screen?12:32
unique311nothing in settings.12:33
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unit42Most of the Palm Apps had problems running on full screen on my good old T3.12:33
milhouseso much crap software on offer... everyone is catered for!12:34
unit42They were unable to use the bigger screen.12:34
unique311it does the default size of palm devices12:34
JaffaIndeed. But the pixel density on the NITs is so high, pixel doubling's pretty much going to be essential ;-/12:35
unique311did notice sound on zuma worked when i first ran it.12:35
unique311but for the video i got no sound.12:35
unique311it does sound.12:37
unique311pupnik, it does games.12:37
pupnik_i still like unique311's skins better
unique311you will see in the video...12:37
unique311pretty damn fast12:37
unique311can use them i think as a background.12:38
unit42upload in progress? ;-)12:38
unique311theirs an option under settings to change the background.12:38
unique311i had antishake on so it should be ok...i think12:39
pupnik_this should get an entry in the big blogs - thoughtfix, ITT etc12:39
unique311pretty sure he'll blog on about it.12:40
unique311still early over here.12:40
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unique31120 minutes to 612:41
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JaffaThoughtfix already has.12:41
unique311he's good12:41
JaffaIt's just buried on pmo12:42
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unique311not the best12:45
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unique311i have that game on my ipod video, performs same way.12:47
JaffaDo you not have a tripod? ;-)12:47
unique311but i think i was shaking it worse.12:48
unique311its a pretty good camera12:48
Jaffacool vid, ta.12:49
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unique311i really dislike the expiration date.12:49
JaffaFairly standard for betas. Engadget says the real version won't cost either, so here's hoping.12:50
unique311if they can take advantage of the screen on the devices..that would be a plus also12:50
JaffaYeah, and the N810's hardware keyboard12:51
pupnik_wow that's pretty fast12:51
unique311surprise how fast the game ran12:51
unique311pose had lag.12:51
unique311tested out a paint program on pose, that wasn't playing nice at all.12:52
pupnik_i saw the screenshot12:52
pupnik_gotta crash here - cheers all12:52
unique311going to try it on this vm.12:52
unique311so far no crashes here.12:53
unique311you testing apps pupnik_ ?12:53
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pupnik_no too sleepy12:56
unique311just wondering why its crashing.12:57
unique311no crash here yet.12:57
pupnik_oh i meant like crash into bed12:57
pupnik_oh btw the guy who works on abiword said it works great on os200812:58
pupnik_and this other guy is working on printing support12:58
pupnik_lots of good things coming12:58
pupnik_nice budweiser drawing on your flickr site12:59
pupnik_i haven't had the patience to try using colors like that yet13:00
floriangood morning13:00
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Jaffalo florian13:03
unique311done on mtpaint pupnik_13:04
unique311still waiting on the dev on to release a worth while version of faint.13:04
unique311but i'm going to try a bunch of paint programs on garnet right now.13:04
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josephusim trying to flash a new kernel to my n800 but after the flasher sends the image the device boots up the old kernel13:06
josephusany idea why?13:06
josephusi used " flasher -f -k zImage "13:07
kulvejosephus: sounds odd.. There really can't be two kernels..13:08
kulvejosephus: either the flashing fails, or you are flashing the old kernel..13:08
Jaffa too13:08
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unique311stable video13:13
unique311damn his good.13:13
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kpelhi all13:22
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keesjpretty cool hack13:50
keesjand there are add for the n810 so I guess it is not to much off topic13:51
keesjit feels like we have not talked about real programming for a long time on irc13:52
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GubbeI have a non-graphical app that needs to run a GMainLoop to poll for ConIcConnection signals, which it now does. However, it also needs to perform something else every n seconds. Before the ConIcConnection thing it would just nanosleep in between iterations, but now I apparently need to set up a timer that sends signals like ConIcConnection does. I'm having trouble discovering what timers I need to use for that.13:59
GubbeOr am I an idiot for even trying to do it this way?13:59
czrhmm. is there a prebuild ssh-server deb for 810 somewhere?14:00
czrprebuilt even14:00
derfGubbe: g_timeout_add14:01
Gubbederf: ah, timeouts! I remember those were mentioned somewhere. Thank you!14:01
derfYer welcome.14:02
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KhertanHi !14:26
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visyI just submitted my new project to garage14:40
visyit's a port of REminiscence for Maemo14:40
visyworks 100% on N800, as far as I can see14:40
visyFlashback rules :)14:40
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czrhmm. pressing left in app manager doesn't "go back"14:44
czrwhy not? :-)14:44
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czrhmm. is there a way to get root account enabled without bothering to set the rd-mode?14:48
acydlordyou can install becomeroot14:49
Takon which OS?14:49
Takcould use ssh in 2007...14:50
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czrwell. I installed openssh-server. trying to login as root/rootme. no go. sudo gainroot on the device complains about rd-mode.14:50
Khertanos 2008 :)14:52
Khertanon the sdk ?14:52
czrno. on 810.14:52
mgedminssh root@localhost used to work on os200714:52
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czrwill try that then (need to download ssh client first though :-)14:53
suihkulokkiczr: enable rd-mode with flasher14:53
czrsuihkulokki, there is no other way?14:54
czr(I'm feeling extra lazy)14:54
kulveczr: ssh root@localhost is the way I'm using it on n80014:54
czrkulve, rootme as pw?14:55
kulveczr: yes, until I changed it ;)14:55
czrwell. it doesn't work.14:55
kulvewhat does it say?14:55
czrheh. noticed something funny too. when entering password for ssh, the predictive dictionary wants to suggest all kinds of stuff beginning with rootme..14:55
czrkulve, permission denied14:55
Takmaybe they prechanged the root passwd on yours to p$&vx909&&#nn#!!%614:56
czr(please try again)14:56
czrmaybe so.14:56
kulveczr: that sounds odd, but I don't have n810, so I really don't know..14:56
czrsuihkulokki, can I use stock flasher for the r&d mode thingy?14:56
czrstock=n800 one.14:56
kulveczr: at least for n800 you can14:57
kulvestock being the linux flasher tool14:57
czrI know I can use the n800 flasher with n800. that wasn't the question :-)15:01
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kulvetry it out15:04
kulveI would guess that it would deny doing anything, if it can't. But that's just a guess ;)15:04
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JaffaYay, Mobymemory have delivered my 6GB microSDHC card.15:09
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rothielHi :)15:12
czrkulve, the n800 flasher (3.0) doesn't recognize the device15:12
czr'Suitable USB device not found, waiting'15:12
JaffaBlimey, microSD is *tiny*15:13
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kulveczr: ok :/15:14
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jjoczr: works for me15:17
jjoI haven't even seen a newer version of the flasher15:18
czrjjo, k, will recheck.15:18
czrbleh. I'm such a monkey. forgot that the flasher needs the device to boot up properly.15:19
czrsomehow expected it to work when the device was already on.15:20
* czr hides in shame and runs15:20
czrjjo, thanks.15:20
* tsavola spanks czr15:20
suihkulokkiwell flasher could be smart enough to say "hey, looks like there is a powered-on device connected already"15:20
tsavolacould it?15:21
jumpulait could have a paper clip telling all these things :)15:22
* Tak files feature request for a paperclip15:23
suihkulokkiroot me babe, root me harder15:23
jumpula"it looks like you're about to violate the internal memory of the device. are you aware that you will void your warranty?"15:23
* czr feels well spanked15:23
czrthanks tsavola and long time.15:24
* zeenix spanks tsavola for changing nicks15:24
tsavola"you're about to write to ram. are you sure you want to write to the ram?"15:24
* jumpula spanks everybody just for the fun of it15:24
zeenixtsavola: "it may cause severe side-effects"15:24
tsavolazeenix: "timo" is taken on freenode, and i use the silly old nick on ircnet only because i've done so for over a decade15:25
czrzeenix, headache?15:25
jumpula"you're about to ram your ram. you really want to do this?"15:25
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tsavolaczr: yes15:25
czr"you have a ram in your device, do you wish to report it to Nokia? No information will be sent!"15:26
tsavolaoctober went already15:26
czrtsavola, good friends spank each other during other months as well15:26
czrwhee. got root.15:27
tsavolamaybe i should go for that fashionable underscore-after-my-name nick15:27
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timo_already taken15:27
czrhantainen timo15:27
timo_12765 - ei voittoa15:27
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*** timo__ is now known as timo___15:28
czrwhy not omit?15:28
timo___it's negative15:28
timo___omit timo15:28
timo___makes me feel sad15:28
czrhmm. the long minus behind you doesn't? :-)15:29
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timo___my tail is 3 chars long, you can sit on it15:29
czrindeed I can15:29
czrcreature comfort15:29
suihkulokkitimo, howabout the rot13 version of your nick?15:29
czrhmm. next, mental damage for the n80015:30
czris there any real reason why mini usb was chosen as the cable btw?15:30
suihkulokkialternatively you could have 4-char long tail and call it "my word"15:31
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timo___suihkulokki: that would defeat the purpose of having your nick based on your real name :)15:31
suihkulokkiok, I'll get me my coat ->15:31
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czrsuihkulokki, a shower curtain?15:32
jumpulashower gull, actually15:32
timo___jumpula: _coat_15:32
jumpulai should get one? :)15:32
czrjumpula, sure. but a shower curtain would be the aptest coat for a shower gull, don't you think?15:32
jumpulabut this is based on my real name15:33
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timo___czr: what are you doing nowadays?15:34
czrtimo___, same old.15:34
jumpulaand besides. no-one else wants this nick.15:34
timo___i do15:34
jumpulareason enough to keep it :)15:34
czror rather same old as was back when we used to know each other :-)15:34
timo___czr: ok15:34
czrtimo___, you?15:34
timo___czr: same old...15:34
dpb_I bet I could sell the jumpula nick on ebay.15:34
timo___czr: well, not so much maemo stuff though :)15:35
czrtimo___, the universe moves in cycles15:35
timo___czr: for me, it stands still15:35
* jumpula spanks dpb_ 15:35
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czrtimo___, a very small cycle for you then :-)15:35
dpb_Ooh, the spanking again.15:35
timo___small cycle -> high-frequency spanking15:35
dpb_Such a gay channel.. <.<15:35
timo___dpb_: it's the best kind15:36
czrsmall enough cycle -> a point -> infinite frequency spanking aka the spank infinituum15:36
timo___sorry i said anything today15:37
* timo___ fetches snacks ->15:38
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jumpulaeternity never looks so lovely15:39
czrall this spanking business made me thirsty for coffee15:39
czrheh jumpula15:39
dpb_Hmm.. A snack would be nice..15:40
czrseletive negative ack15:40
czrselective even15:40
czrbleh. reflashed 2007 into the 800 by mistake15:41
czr./flasher --undo15:41
czrah no. Version of 'sw-release': RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.38-2_PR_MR0 was slightly misleading15:42
TPCI wonder if the 2008 flash for 810 would work for 80015:43
svuis 2008 already available?15:43
czrsvu, no15:44
svuugh. I just thought for a moment...15:44
svu(people discussing it casually...;)15:44
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* czr feels very casual today.15:45
czrit's all the spanking I guess.15:45
jumpulacasual tuesday15:45
* czr wishes there'd be a "stand" thingy on the 77015:46
czrthat way I could put all three in a row under one of the displays15:46
dpb_I read: "spank" thingy on the 77015:46
czrdpb_, that's an unofficial feature15:47
czrcomes with the 2007WE15:47
_MonkeyWE are making pressure, because we understand the possibilities... but if they (managers) think other ways... or have other plans... it's complicated..15:47
czrdpb_, as alterego put it yesterday, the wanking edition (HE)15:47
dpb_ahh, that one15:48
* czr wonders if there'll be a 2008HE15:49
czrhmm. I wonder if I deserve spanking for logging as root into the 800 first, then using ssh to log into the 810 as root.15:52
* czr needs more devices to chain ssh15:52
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Takthe HE is supposed to be brought in line with 200815:54
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czrTak, oh. nice to know15:54
czrthat'd make it simpler to support it too15:55
czrsame arch, right?15:55
czrgcc-wise I mean15:57
Taktargetwise, yes15:57
inzJust don't use vfp ;)15:57
Takgccwise, it depends how fancy you get with the compiler flags15:57
Takand don't build specifically for arm1115:57
czrinz, vfp isn't enabled in 2008, is it?15:58
czrby default I mean15:58
inzczr, dunno, unlikely16:00
czryup. that's what I'm thinking too. so enabling it by mistake isn't likely16:01
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felipechola lopz16:12
lopzhey felipec16:15
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zeenixhi mallum16:43
mallumhey zeenix16:43
_Monkeyzeenix is just sore since he has trouble learning finnish ;)16:43
zeenix_Monkey: who said i am sore?16:44
_Monkeyzeenix: wish i knew16:44
solmumahait's ok, finnish is quite hard16:45
timo___it's ok to be sore16:45
dpb_after spanking16:45
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* Jaffa improves the holding page for mediautils slightly:
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solmumahaJaffa: one typo, mediasev17:18
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Jaffasolmumaha: thanks. fixed.17:22
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lardmanrobtaylor: ping17:29
lardmanor anyone else who knows about Python for that matter17:29
robtaylorlardman: pong17:31
* robtaylor only pretends to know about python ;)17:31
lardmanrobtaylor: do you know anything about python-central vs debhelper?17:31
zeenixlardman: yeah! ask timo___ he wrote an encoder in py :)17:31
robtaylorlardman: yep, what you want to know?17:31
lardmanI want to use matplotlib, it requires python-central17:31
lardmanpython-central conflicts with debhelper17:31
czryay. code works. now for a short nap ->17:32
lardmancan I unconflict them or do I need to do as Ed Bartosh says and change it over to use debhelper17:32
robtaylorlardman: ah, where are you getting python-central from?17:32
lardmandebian sid iirc17:32
robtaylorlardman: well, its all very non-trivial. In my repo I have a complately different version of python to pymaemo that allows python-central usage17:33
lardmanjust grabbed the .tar.gz, .dsc * .diff as per the usual17:33
robtaylorlardman: but the pymaemo packaging basically requires you to completely repackage any python packages you want17:33
lardmanthat is bad presumably?17:33
lardmanmroe work anyway17:33
robtaylorhowever my repackaging is a lot heavier than the pymaemo packaging17:34
robtaylorand solving that problem is definitly non-trivial17:34
lardmanoh, so your system also requires repackaging then, hmm17:34
robtaylornope,mine'll allow you to rebuild sid packagedpretty much without change17:34
lardmando you have installable python packages - that I can run on the N800 and in scratchbox?17:35
lardmanin your repo that is17:35
robtaylorlardman: but theproblem being,ideally python packages for maemo should just install zipped byte-compiled versions17:35
robtaylorlardman: but python-central is predicated on installing the source and byte-compiling on install17:35
lardmanah, I see17:35
lardmanis the source then deleted?17:35
robtaylorlardman: nope, not on debian17:35
lardmanso it's slow and bloated too17:36
robtaylorlardman: so when you upgrade python, it recompiles for the new python17:36
robtaylorwell, not slow17:36
robtaylorbut bloated17:36
lardmanslow doing the recompile I meant, or is that always done anyway?17:36
robtaylorso solving this problem involves rethinking python-central with the debian python guys17:36
robtaylorlardman: thats only done on install, doesnt take long17:37
robtaylorso, yeah, the options are, usemy python packages, take space hit, or repackage for maemo17:37
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lardmanrobtaylor: repackage after it's been compiled? Or alter the build process?17:38
milhouseDunno if you've seen this already, youtube video of Google Android (doesn't look bad)17:38
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lardmanrobtaylor: where do I find your packages? I'm more interested in using Python than messing about with its build process to be honest17:40
robtaylorlardman: i havn't touched them for a while, but should still work17:41
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lardmanthanks, I'll take a look17:41
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zorantimelyx, thank you; apps are available in repositories now!17:53
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unique311good praise for the garnet vm on ITT.17:54
unique311put that link to use...17:54
unique311let the people at access know that we need bigger screen res on this vm.17:56
unique311compatibility mode..17:59
unique311choose app you want to run.17:59
unique311and find the company ID and device ID from the link18:00
unique311it only takes advantage of the internet for hotsync.18:01
shackanunique311: wow, when was this thing announced?18:02
unique311early this morning18:02
unique311still not on maemo yet18:02
unique311check ITT for some comments on it18:02
shackanso when? :)18:02
Jaffaunique311: where do you expect it on maemo?18:03
shackantoo many good announces in two days18:03
shackanandroid, os2008, now this :D18:03
sxpert-workandroid appears full of java cracl18:03
sxpert-workcrack even18:03
unique311java within garnet vm18:04
shackanunique311: garnet is java?18:04
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Jaffaunique311: remember it's a beta, but at least 2 articles about it on planet (admittedly buried by the Colin Mulliner blog issue) and another two on
skiburls -l18:05
unique311failed to check. was on ITT18:05
unique311sorry bout that18:05
skiburanything new18:05
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unique311garnet vm skibur18:06
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lardmanhmm, I've still not received my email with a download link18:11
_Monkeygarnetvm is available from Access, direct deb downloads 770:, N800 and N810:
lardmanlol, thanks18:12
unique311recieved it really fast18:13
lardmanah well, thanks, I thought I'd see what all the fuss is about18:13
unique311downside i can see right now is that danm screen size.18:13
lardmanwhy's that - because the apps are hardcoded?18:17
pupnik_they made the 'theme' with a jotter pad below the screen instead of to the side, wasting vertical space.18:19
unique311its a vm. and its doing the palm device screen res. which is 320x???18:19
pupnik_they also haven't implemented 90 degree rotation18:19
pupnik_older palms were more like 160x16018:19
unique311you have to uncheck fullscreen pupnik_18:19
unique311and it does the portrait mode18:19
pupnik_heh it does?? sorry18:20
unique311but still small18:20
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unique311they are asking for feedback...18:20
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unique311I doubt they can do anything about that screen res.  doesn't it mean rewriting the 30,000+ apps they have out there?18:21
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unique311to support a bigger screen res18:22
lardmanthe whitepaper says the display is done on the Linux side, so no reason why they couldn't18:23
lardmanPresumably they could remove the scribble area at least18:24
Jaffaunique311: there are apps which can tell things to use the 480x320 res of a Sony PEG-UX5018:25
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JaffaGrafitti should be optional if you've got an N81018:25
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unique311you can hide the graffiti18:26
unique311theirs a down arrow. that allows this18:26
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Jaffaunique311: that requires app support, though, doesn' it?18:32
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unique311its does.18:33
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Khertanmany palm libs are missing from the wm18:44
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lardman~lart WinXP for just losing at its icons18:46
* infobot gets a hotmal account and SPAMs WinXP for just losing at its icons18:46
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Atariihmmm shud i download the 770 or the 800 verion of garnetvm for 2007he on 770?18:48
Atariiim guessin 800?18:48
TakI would default to the n800 version and fall back to the 770 version if that doesn't work18:49
Atariik thanks, ill give it a whirl18:49
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milhouseatarri: n80018:52
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unique311hmmm, just found a gvm conf file that has a screensize set to 320x48019:00
unique311maybe it can be changed.19:00
unique311looks like other roms can possibly be used.19:01
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unit42Network Support would be nice for the Garnet VM...19:16
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unit42...did anyone test some network apps? Network support is listed. But I can find anything in the prefs...19:18
unique311i did...seems only for hotsync right now19:19
unit42Ah. Ok.19:19
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unique311i think the vm can use a different rom.19:19
unique311have to try that out.19:19
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konttorihey, how long does the upload to maemo extras usually take?19:49
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Jaffakonttori: not long19:51
konttoriahh.. I am trying to get ukmp there19:52
konttoriI signed the deb with gpg.19:52
konttoriI have the gpgs file and the deb file.19:52
JaffaAh. seems fscked19:52
konttoriI then used scp to upload both to extras/incoming/chinook19:52
JaffaGarage commit is taking ages19:52
konttoriAm I missing something? I mean, how can I know if I did it right?19:53
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konttorianyway, just thought to ask as you have done it a few times Jaffa19:57
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Sho_Does anyone know if the bug tracker is currently sending out emails at all? My account creation mail never arrived20:33
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t_s_owoa, garnet software on the tablets?!20:34
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timelesshello world21:17
timelesswhat color depth does maemo use? :)21:17
disq16 bits21:17
niteOwl2i'm trying to setup a maemo dev environment and have some questions (probably will ask them a little later) - is this the right channel for that sort of discussion? I looked and could not find a maemo-dev channel21:20
niteOwl2good. Thanks.21:20
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guardianhow long does it take between garage registration and login on ?21:31
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TOM_AT_OM_ON_STEWRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!21:36
TOM_AT_OM_ON_STEWRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!21:36
TOM_AT_OM_ON_STEWRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!!21:36
TOM_AT_OM_ON_STEWRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!21:36
elbguardian: a few minutes or more21:37
elbguardian: for me, I think it was at least 1521:37
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guardianregistered this morning21:37
kaltsiit shouldn't take long but I registered to garage on Friday and the account still doesn't work in, there must be something wrong21:37
guardianstill cannot login21:37
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TOM_AT_OM_ON_STEWRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!21:38
TOM_AT_OM_ON_STEWRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!!21:38
TOM_AT_OM_ON_STEWRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!!21:38
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b0unc3`is the ITOS2008 available ?21:39
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Takwhy do we never have ops in channel?21:43
czrb0unc3`, no21:43
czrbtw, is anyone else getting the maemo-devel mails in "random" order?21:44
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sp3000the last 9 appear to be in order21:48
czrweird. I've been getting mine in a "random" order for a month (ever since I subbed again)21:49
czrreponses to some discussions come before the original questions, etc.21:49
doc|workToni_is an op, he's just not opped right now21:50
elbczr: spam/virus/etc. filtering can often cause that21:50
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czrelb, not on my side at least.21:50
czralthough not sure whether the confusion arises in relay smtp. just annoying.21:51
czrbut they shouldn't be doing any filtering either methinks.21:51
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timelesssp3000: i finished writing my next blog article :)21:53
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KwisatzHaderachI am looking for an hackable internet tablet with GSM that can be used in tractors in fields21:55
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Taks/GSM/GPS/ ?21:58
KwisatzHaderacherr. I mean something like GPRS, to use instant messaging for example21:59
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kaltsithese tablets just have wlan, or they can use a phone's gprs over bluetooth22:03
b0unc3`kaltsi: both22:05
elbI think that was a statement, not a question, in response to KwisatzHaderach's question ;-)22:05
kaltsiI think so too :)22:05
b0unc3`ops... sorry :)22:06
KwisatzHaderachthank you ;)22:06
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pupniki wonder if some non-microwave telemetry via USB would work for KwisatzHaderach22:17
KwisatzHaderachIt would be for farmer workers, to write their work time on the tablet. The tablet has to query some internet servers22:21
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pupnikthen they're perfect, since with a tablet paired to an existing cell phone, they aren't locked into any one service22:25
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guardiandoes aircrack work on the tablet ?22:27
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* Jaffa adds some more stock photograph to
Jaffa...but it's now time to watch /Heroes/22:33
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