IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2007-11-14

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svuwhen when when when...00:54
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pumpkin_I'm having some trouble getting maemo in scratchbox working on my ubuntu gutsy00:58
pumpkin_when I do apt-get update inside scratchbox, I get00:58
pumpkin_W: Couldn't stat source package list http://repository.maemo.org bora/free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)00:58
pumpkin_along with some stuff about not being able to resolve repository.maemo.org00:59
db48xthe file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-i386_Packages is missing, because it couldn't contact repository.maemo.org and so it was never created00:59
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db48x99% of the time it's because you don't have dns set up correctly00:59
czrpumpkin_, in sbox, grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf01:00
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czrdb48x, or to be precise, it's becase sbox setup breaks it :-)01:00
db48xczr: yea :)01:00
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pumpkin_db48x: it says hosts: files dns01:01
czrpumpkin_, anyhow, replace the hosts like with this: hosts: files dns01:01
czrah ok01:01
czrpumpkin_, what does /etc/resolv.conf say (in sbox)01:01
pumpkin_hmm01:01
pumpkin_has nameserver set to localhost :P01:01
czrok01:01
pumpkin_that doesn't sound right01:01
pumpkin_lol01:01
czrinstall dnsmasq on the host ;-)01:01
czrthen it will "magically just work"01:01
czrplus it has the benefit of working even if your host will get a different ip from dhcp01:01
czrno need to touch the resolv.conf within sbox01:01
pumpkin_cool01:02
czrnormally people modify the resolv.conf to their real dns, but it seems slightly silly when dnsmasq just fixes the whole situation01:02
pumpkin_yeah01:02
pumpkin_cool01:02
Pioyeah dnsmasq rocks01:02
czrbtw, no need to conf dnsmasq. install will set it up with proper defaults01:02
pumpkin_hmm01:02
czrthen try doing generic ping tests within sbox to test dns01:02
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pumpkin_still can't resolve it, inside my scratchbox01:03
czrhmmh01:03
pumpkin_and sbox doesn't have ping installed :(01:03
czrtry wget http://www.google.com/01:03
czrthat will do a dns resolution as well01:03
pumpkin_yeah01:03
pumpkin_that works, hmm01:03
pumpkin_odd01:03
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czryou might want to reinstall the sdk though (sbox should be ok now)01:04
czrnot sure how the "automatical install scripts" deal with dns problems. probably not all too well.01:04
pumpkin_ah01:04
czror try running apt-get update; apt-get -f install01:04
* czr shrugs01:04
pumpkin_reinstalling the sdk01:04
* czr nods01:04
pupniknot including ping is a very strange thing01:05
czryell if you run into more trouble :-)01:05
pumpkin_thanks :)01:05
czrnot really :-)01:05
pumpkin_maybe it's just not in my path01:05
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pupniksounds like a refrain from an operetta...01:05
pumpkin_I'll take a look when I finish reinstalling it01:05
czrpumpkin_, using gutsy in couple of the test vms I have too01:05
czrother than the dns issue, no problems so far01:06
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pumpkin_hmm01:07
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pumpkin_still not resolving repository.maemo.org :-/01:09
pumpkin_wget on repository.maemo.org works fine though01:10
pumpkin_boo01:10
czrweird01:11
czrdo you have http_proxy set?01:11
pumpkin_nope01:11
pumpkin_running it in a  vm though01:11
pumpkin_shouldn't affect it though01:11
czrshouldn't be an issue01:11
pumpkin_hrm01:11
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czrif you're on a fast link, I'd just shutdown sbox and remove the sbox packages on the host and rm -Rf /scratchbox and let the installer run again01:12
pumpkin_sure, I am,01:12
czryou could try that. now that you have dnsmasq and all :-)01:13
pumpkin_remove the sbox packages?01:13
czryeah. dpkg --purge remove scratchbox*01:13
czror apt-get --purge remove scratchbox* (the asterisk might actually work)01:13
db48xit won't01:13
czroh01:13
db48xyour shell will try to expand it as a list of filenames in the current directory01:13
pumpkin_weird, how did this happen01:14
czrdb48x, I'm assuming that cwd does not contain any names that start with that01:14
pumpkin_it's not letting me delete it cause there's a circular link01:14
czrdb48x, in that case the shell will leave the asterisk alone01:14
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db48xczr: better to quote it01:14
czrpumpkin_, hmm. did you exit sbox and shut sbox down?01:15
czrdb48x, sure01:15
pumpkin_lol, I decided to really start from scratch01:15
pumpkin_and restore from a vm snapshot from just  before installing maemo and scratchbox01:15
czrthat will work too. just install dnsmasq first :-)01:15
pumpkin_yup doing that now01:15
db48xyea01:16
db48xthat's what I do too01:16
pumpkin_can I install 3.2 directly, or do I need to do 3.1 first again?01:16
db48xread the readme file01:16
czrpumpkin_, aren't you installing 4.0?01:16
pumpkin_oh I could01:16
pumpkin_but I was scared away by the big beta sign on it01:16
czrit's not beta anymore01:17
czrbut01:17
czrIT2008 is not out yet01:17
pumpkin_it's fine for N800 development?01:17
czrso if you plan to deploy sw on ITs, it will be interesting :-)01:17
czrpumpkin_, not yet. unless your N800 is running 200801:17
pumpkin_oh01:17
pumpkin_so I should stick with 3.2?01:17
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czrprobably yes01:17
czrI don't know when 2008 will be released for N800.01:18
pumpkin_so I have to start with 3.1 and upgrade, right?01:18
czryes01:18
pumpkin_ah01:18
czrafter 2008 is avail for N800, you should use 4.0/chinook.01:18
db48xactually, it's kinda funny01:19
db48xscratchbox is an attempt to avoid using a virtual machine for the whole OS01:19
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db48xinstead using the VM just to run the single program you're developing01:19
pumpkin_:P01:19
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db48xand yet we all run it inside a VM because it's so annoying01:19
czralthough sbox was never meant to be a vm. just a fancy chroot01:20
czrbut yes :-)01:20
juh0is the os2008 available for n800? anyone tried flash the n800 with this firmware: RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin01:20
czrjuh0, where did you get that?01:20
juh0ummm downloaded it from nokia www-site01:21
czrah. the RX-44 is for N81001:21
czralthough hmm. you can always try to flash it :-)01:21
czrjust don't blame me if it bricks the device ;-)01:21
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shacka1juh0: let us know how it goes :)01:24
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czrnight all -.01:26
czr-> even.01:26
pumpkin_night :) thanks for the help01:28
ds3Mmmm blow away xloader...yummy01:29
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GeneralAntillesAnybody happen to have a valid N810 WLAN MAC taking up space anywhere? :P01:32
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pumpkin_boo01:48
pumpkin_even after reinstalling the whole thing01:48
pumpkin_it doesn't worky01:48
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pupniknsswitch?01:49
_Monkeyit has been said that nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get01:49
pumpkin_nsswitch.conf and resolv.conf look ok01:49
pumpkin_nah, mine says files dns too01:49
pumpkin_oh01:50
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pumpkin_I'll go look in the host01:50
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pumpkin_sweet!01:51
pumpkin_thanks01:51
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juh0yep it got os2008 on N800 now :D02:02
shacka1woot02:02
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GeneralAntillesHehe02:06
GeneralAntillesJust now flashing.02:06
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GeneralAntillesSweet02:07
hephaestus_so has anyone tryed to install chinook on the 770?02:08
Jitenjuh0: the n810 version worked?02:08
juh0yep02:09
juh0you need use linux flasher02:09
hephaestus_well yeah, any tips on getting the flash image? since it is a 770 it is failing the download authentication nonesense02:10
GeneralAntillesThe flash-2.0.macosx for OS X works, too.02:11
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hephaestus_anyone know where else it is hosted or feels like giving the chanel the hardware address of an n800?02:14
juh0instructions to get os2008 working on n800 http://pastebin.com/m16dd593702:15
hephaestus_ooo, thanks juh002:17
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hephaestus_so has anyone actually tryed Chinook on a 770?02:17
hephaestus_because my 770 is running Bora now, so the hardware is not that different02:18
juh0Software update for Nokia N800 tablet leaks, fans go ga-ga. http://www.cnet.com/surveillance-state/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html?tag=head02:18
GeneralAntilleshephaestus_, Chinook WILL NOT WORK ON THE 770.02:19
lopzhola02:19
GeneralAntillesYou'll have to wait for an OS2008HE02:19
* pupnik holds breath02:20
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doc|workreally? 2008 requires a serial number?02:33
doc|work!foss02:33
db48xdoc|work: the source is still freely available02:33
doc|workjust binaries aren't?02:34
elbmany people have trouble with the concept of free software02:34
db48xyea02:34
db48xbut it's been like that from the beginning02:34
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doc|workah, ok, so, the article's fud?02:34
* doc|work is waiting for his n800 to arrive :/02:34
elbthe article is correct02:35
db48xwhich article? many of them are02:35
elbyour exclamation about "!foss" is FUD02:35
db48xyea02:35
doc|workwas a joke :/02:35
elb(note that there *is* software on the Nokia tablets which is not open source, and the license they are under is available for your review)02:36
doc|workjust seemed odd that a serial was necessary and that it might be held back to "allow the n810 to shine"02:36
db48xthat's not so odd02:36
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milhouseanyone got the bogomips for an n800 running os2007? from /proc/cpuinfo02:38
GeneralAntilleshowto?02:38
_Monkeyit has been said that howto is the maemo community HowTo Wiki - http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo02:38
milhousecat /proc/cpuinfo02:38
db48x320.3702:38
milhouseBogoMIPS will be listed near the top02:38
milhouseno way... really?02:38
GeneralAntilles388.5402:39
milhouseah yes02:39
GeneralAntillesFor 200802:39
GeneralAntillesRight.02:39
GeneralAntillesHa02:39
milhousei think it's about 1:1 on clock speed02:39
milhouseinteresting, for OS2008 mine is 160.68! :)02:39
db48xhuh02:39
GeneralAntillesAlso: return in fullscreen keyboard in xterm finally sends the command.02:39
milhouse388 would approximate to the CPU running at about 400mhz I guess02:39
db48xso why is yours only 160?02:40
milhouseanyone know how to check the current CPU speed?02:40
milhousedb48x - looks that way! :)02:40
milhousei'll reboot it and see if I get a different figure02:40
elb(note that bogomips are more or less completely meaningless on basically all platforms)02:40
milhousei know, but pretty much all there is...02:41
juh0i got 388.54 bogomips02:41
juh0but wow the os2008 is really fast02:41
milhouseboots a damn site quicker than 2007 :)02:41
pupnik\p/02:41
milhousenice to see xterm included, although i'm not convinced by the "improvements"02:41
elbit sounds like the CPU speed change is with throttling, so your CPU won't be any given speed at any given point in time, anykway02:41
pupnikcan't wait to see transflective screen02:42
milhousebooted it and bogomips is 160.68 again02:42
pupnikbut that dpad looks... not quite game compatible02:42
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milhouseelb: I'm sure it's just a matter of time until someone creates a "load" type applet that displays the current frequency. or something.02:43
milhouserss reader manages to show fewer items than the old version - genius!02:43
elbI don't know if the architecture supports it, but if what you *really* want to know is what speed the CPU is currently running, check /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq02:43
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elb(I do not yet have a device, so I don't know if cpufreq is accessed the same as it is on other architectures)02:44
GeneralAntillesAnybody have a link to the website with all the NIT repos?02:44
milhouse165000 here - so that 165Mhz02:44
GeneralAntillesListed all the packages and such?02:44
milhouses/that/thats/02:44
infobotmilhouse meant: 165000 here - so thats 165Mhz02:44
milhouse(thanks elb)02:44
elbif you did something CPU intensive, I presume that would crank up to as much as 400MHz02:44
elbcpu_max_freq and cpu_min_freq may also be informative02:44
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hephaestus_so i have an interesting problem, im on a network with WPA enterprise, using tls and a User Cert/Authaurity pair, and my 770 Running bora cant seem to handel the cert correctly, when i try to connect it asks me for my cert password tehn imeadiatly fails to connect, any ideas how to get debug info for the network connection so i can start to track down the problem?02:45
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milhousemine seems to bounce between 165Mhz and 400Mhz - nothing in between02:46
elbyou would need a work load that continually utilized more than 165MHz but left the processor significantly idle at 400MHz to see something else02:47
elbon my laptop, I normally see either the slowest or fastest speed, as well02:48
juh0400000 here ;)02:48
zerojayRestoring my IT2008 backup as we speak. :D02:48
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db48xhmm02:48
pupnikI want to nitrogen cool my 77002:49
db48xso what happens if I restore a backup that was taken with IT2007?02:49
GeneralAntillesWorked fine for me, db48x.02:51
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zerojayMe too.02:51
GeneralAntillesGoodness02:52
GeneralAntillesThis thing really screams.02:52
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hephaestus_anyone know the command line arguments to have the 770 or n800 connect to a network with any debug info, or where to find a logfile?02:53
db48xGeneralAntilles: turn the volume down02:53
GeneralAntilles;)02:54
milhouseanyone succeeded in installing Skype on OS2008?02:54
GeneralAntillesNot I.02:54
milhouseso it's not just me then :)02:54
db48xhmm02:54
db48xI need to install that too. I heard that my Grandmother was complaining that I hadn't been on02:55
GeneralAntillesHa02:55
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milhousethis frequency scaling worries me - the device seems to pause briefly before it switches up to 400Mhz02:56
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GeneralAntillesBetter than having no battery life. ;)02:57
milhousethat remains to be seen :)02:57
doc|workwhat will the new battery life be like?02:57
GeneralAntillesProbably about the same02:57
GeneralAntillesMore power + scaling = similar battery life.02:57
doc|workcool02:57
milhousethere must be some improvment... maybe an extra hour?02:58
doc|workworksforme!02:58
doc|workhad there been no scaling before?02:58
milhousenone at all02:58
doc|workwow02:58
elbwhat do you mean by "pause briefly" ?02:58
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elbif you mean that there is some hysteresis, that is good02:58
zerojayAwesome.. "Display stays lit when charging" option! ;D02:58
milhouseassuming it spends most of it's time running at 165Mhz (which seems the minimum freq) instead of 330Mhz the battery will probably last a little longer than it did before...02:58
doc|workdoes watching a movie bump the cpu up?02:59
milhouseelb: it's like lag... maybe for half a second to a full second02:59
GeneralAntillesYeah, zerojay, the LED options are a nice feature, too.02:59
GeneralAntillesI'll actually turn the damn thing on now.02:59
elbon most processors, there are lost cycles in changing the frequency (and lost cycles means lost power), so you don't *want* it to changae frequency for a tiny burst of CPU usage02:59
elbmilhouse: do you mean the whole thing freezes up, or that it simply takes it a second to decide to kick up to 400MHz?03:00
milhouseelb: both - it seems to pause, and then it continues once it has switched up to 400Mhz03:00
pupnikzerojay: nice nice03:01
milhousei'm just running a simple terminal session via ssh which is logging the current freq every second - that pauses too when switching up (but not down)03:01
elbI have a hard time believing that the whole thing freezes up when it changes frequency03:01
elbor that it is supposed to03:01
milhouseplaying BBC Radio 1 real audio stream and my cpu is chugging along at 330Mhz03:01
elbnow, accessing /sys/devices/system/cpu/... *may* pause, that's is entirely likely03:01
GeneralAntillesI'm not seeing the effect you're describing, milhouse.03:01
milhousemaybe it's something else then03:01
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milhousehope it is - this freq scaling is a major feature03:01
elbyou're not likely to learn anything *useful* watching that like a hawk ;-)03:01
GeneralAntillesWorking d-pad scrolling in MicroB is another nice one.03:02
milhouseWatching the Nokia N810 video and the CPU is running at 330Mhz03:03
milhousemight hit 400Mhz with a higher bitrate perhaps03:03
zerojayDifferent ring tones.. not more, but different ones.03:03
zerojayExcept ring ring.03:03
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trosephSo... Android on Nokia 770s? Can It happen?03:05
doc|workmeh03:06
milhousei find the new scrolling rss reader applet confusing - it looks like it's got a scrollbar, but you can't drag it03:06
milhouseand i'm lucky if i get about 5 articles per screen now03:06
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milhouseat least the main RSS application has improved drag scrolling - the previous versions sucked big time03:07
zerojayI've yet to see something I didn't like.03:08
sp3000milhouse: it moves by itself, it can't be worse!!11103:08
* sp3000 rolls eyes03:08
milhousethe presence icon looks out of place with the new monochrome status bar icons03:09
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pupnikhas anyone here used a N810 yet?03:09
milhouseand there seems to be some confusion whether apps should use thin or thick scrollbars - the "look" is still a little disjointed03:09
GeneralAntillesSIP actually works right now.03:09
zerojaymilhouse: It it was more outlinish, it would look better, but harder to tell if you're online or not.03:09
zerojayGeneralAntilles: RTCOMM. :)03:10
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db48xso, who is going to package openssh?03:10
milhousedb48x - already there03:10
GeneralAntillesI just installed openssh03:10
GeneralAntillesEnable Extras03:10
zerojayWhere?03:10
GeneralAntillesApplication Manager03:10
_MonkeyApplication Manager is maemo's GUI over apt03:10
milhousezerojay - in extra, then install it from App Manager (openssh, openssh-client or openssh-server)03:10
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GeneralAntillesNot sure if I like the Mac OS-style zooming box outlines.03:11
milhouseopenssh installs both client and server03:11
db48xah, I didn't realize it was disabled03:11
db48xI only saw that it was in the list03:11
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pupnikis the feel/flow of os2008 faster for the common tasks?03:11
zerojaySo far, it feels that way.03:12
GeneralAntillesSnappier03:12
db48xdepends on your common tasks :)03:12
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juh0youtube is finally usable03:12
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zerojayIt was before.03:12
juh0no it wasnt03:12
GeneralAntillesIt was03:12
GeneralAntillesit just wasn't optimal03:13
zerojayWanna see something even better?03:13
zerojayGo to m.youtube.com.03:13
zerojayPlay a video from there.03:13
zerojayEven smoother.03:13
zerojayfull framerate.03:13
zerojayDirect in media player.03:13
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zerojaymilhouse: I don't see extra anywhere.03:15
GeneralAntillesIn the catalog listing03:15
GeneralAntillesIcon is grayed03:15
zerojayoh, ok.03:15
zerojayWonder if media player works with maemoscrobbler.. doubt it, but who knows.03:16
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zerojayscrobbler is stuck on 8m44s. probably needs a reboot.03:21
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milhouseright... one of my bugs is now fixed in OS 2008 - do i mark it as verified or closed?03:21
milhousebug 1955 if anyone is interested - bug in microb03:21
_MonkeyBug 1955 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195503:21
zerojaymilhouse: Mark it verified.03:21
milhouseok ta03:22
zerojaymilhouse: The Nokia people will close it once they are satisifed.03:22
zerojayNice.03:23
milhousethink i'll hold off verifying any more bugs... they might freak with all these bugs being closed in an unreleased OS! :)03:23
zerojaylol.03:23
zerojayDoubt it. :)03:23
GeneralAntillesHmmm . . . how the hell do I stop this thing from auto-capitalizing?03:23
zerojayThere's an option.03:23
zerojayAlways been there.03:23
zerojayCan't remember the name.03:24
GeneralAntillesWasn't it in text input settings, though?03:24
milhouseyes03:24
milhouseit still is there03:24
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zerojaymilhouse: We should probably make a list of bugs fixed so we can present it all together.03:24
milhousei go through all my bugs with each new release :)03:25
zerojaySame here.03:25
milhouseall my bugs being any bug i've opened or commented against03:25
milhousesadly i end up posting comments such as "Still not fixed in x.y.z" :(03:26
zerojayYeah, i know the feeling.03:26
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GeneralAntilles"Handwriting case correction" != "Auto-capitalize"03:27
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zerojayPDF reader allows page switching in full screen mode with left or right on the d-pad.03:27
GeneralAntillesxterm seems to be cloning my text entry in the thumbboard03:27
milhousei mean how difficult is it to change "clips" to "songs" in media player? bug 1064 is typical of Nokia and their "specifications", makes me mad...03:27
_MonkeyBug 1064 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106403:27
zerojaymilhouse: People here call them clips as well.03:28
milhousei've never heard anyone call a song a clip - a film, yes, but not a song03:28
milhousewhere is here, btw?03:28
zerojayHere they do.. here being Canada.03:28
milhousewierdos03:28
milhouse:)03:29
elb"clip" means something different from song, here (en_US)03:29
zerojayBut it's something that french people do more than english here.03:29
milhousethat might make sense - it's not really an english term at all03:29
zerojayI'll bet it's just a mistranslation that never got fixed.03:29
GeneralAntillesWhat's the root password?03:29
_Monkeythe root password is rootme03:29
elba "clip" is a perfectly normal term for an audio file, but it implies that it is only part of a larger work03:29
elblike, the first 30s might be a "clip"03:29
GeneralAntillesLies, _Monkey.03:29
_MonkeyGeneralAntilles: sorry...03:29
GeneralAntillesYeah, I've never heard anybody refer to a "song" as a "clip" or a collection of music as "clips"03:30
milhouseelb: possibly, but i'd associate clips more strongly with movie/film media than audio which has a clear and simple term of reference on a media player - song (or track)03:30
zerojayWho wants to try internet call? ;)03:30
elbright, for a complete piece, "song" is obviously the correct term03:30
db48xhrm03:30
zerojayJust a minute or two to try it out. :)03:30
elbbut "audio clip" is a normal and often-used term -- just misplaced, here03:31
db48xno more typing suggestions in xterms?03:31
milhousealthough of course not all tracks will be songs, could be audio books so track might be a more general and still accurate term :)03:31
milhousemy point is though, that it's probably taken longer to debate the point in bugzilla than it would to actually fix the bug in the first place - which hasn't been fixed! :)03:31
zerojayInternet call now disables and greys out contacts not on Jabber/Gmail or does not have a phone number associated.03:32
db48xah, completions were simply turned off03:32
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GeneralAntillesAny clues on the root password?03:32
milhouserootme?03:32
_Monkeyrootme is the default pw?03:32
milhousesame as always03:32
GeneralAntillesrootme isn't work. :\03:32
milhouseyou sure you're logging in as root? worked for me...03:33
GeneralAntilles*+ing03:33
db48xget into rd mode and use 'sudo gainroot'03:33
pupnikcan maemomapper show a cached satellite pic while offline?03:33
GeneralAntillesIt always has been able to, yes.03:34
pupnikok ty03:34
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milhoused-pad scrolling in the browser seems to work well03:39
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pupniki'm trying to imagine my thumb being able to hit dpad-up and it's not working03:40
milhouseyeah could be tricky on an n810, plus any key on the top row03:41
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K`zanHi Folks, thinking (seriously) about getting an N800 and am trying to figure out what is available for it - would like to replace my Palm Z31 with it, things like jpilot and perhaps kontact - dunno yet :-).  Much to learn.03:42
K`zanJust gonna read the mail for a bit here...03:42
milhousecheck the itt website it now has a palm os forum03:43
K`zanThanks, but I am pretty fed up with Palm, they used to be stellar, but that was a while back - buggy hardware and software do not inspire me, but linux embedded does :-)!03:45
K`zanFBReader is a BIG plus :-) considering I probably use the Z31 for more of an ebook reader than anything else.03:45
K`zanOrganizer and scheduler I can sync with the desktop would loosen my wallet NOW :-).03:46
K`zan Looking at apps over on the maemo site now.03:46
K`zanKind of confused at this point - is the 2007 OS Nokia or maemo, appear to be the same?!?03:47
milhouseit's the same03:47
pupnikthe os itself is called ITOS.  ITOS 2005, 2006, 2007, 200803:48
milhouseand Maemo is the organisation that creates each IT OS, staffed by Nokia employees03:49
K`zanCoolness, thanks!  Was introduced to the 770 and I like that a lot, but the 800 seems a bit cheezier and the 810 worse :-(.03:49
K`zanSmart folks :-)!  Appreciated too.03:49
GeneralAntillesN800 is the way to go03:49
GeneralAntillesDon't bother with the N81003:49
* K`zan linux junkie / freak / affectionado :).03:50
pupniklooking forward to having you around to test software03:50
K`zanThanks, that is the impression I get too, primarily beacause of the RS-MMC that are either unobtanium or damned expensive :-).03:50
K`zanWOuld be glad to help out where I can - always with linux :-)!!!!03:51
pupnikall options are good. 770, N800, N810 - for different reasons03:51
K`zanLike the physical aspects of the 770 better than the 800, but....03:51
K`zanMust be why they make so many different types :).03:51
K`zanBig fingers :-).03:52
pupnikyeah 770 is a rock.  dropped mine many times03:52
K`zanSad thing is that it is about a wash price wise by the time one adds an RS-MMC :-(.03:52
pupnikreally?  what is 2GB rsmmc?03:52
K`zanup to 16G on the 800 is rather impressive :-).03:52
pupnik+price03:53
K`zanI forget now, but MUCH more than a 2G SD card.03:53
K`zanThat is what has had me balking on getting the 800, but I am now about a 10th of a nats wisker from ordering it :-).03:53
GeneralAntillespupnik, maybe, but not when you consider price. :P03:53
pupnikthe N800 also runs a bunch of games that the 770 cant quite handle03:53
K`zan800 is faster too.03:53
deejoeI've only dropped my n800 once.03:54
deejoeso far, so good.03:54
K`zanIf I can use it as a pda with the desktop stuff, that clenches the deal...03:54
deejoeit's the requisite "must drop each mobile device at least one time"03:54
pupnikdunno who here knows about syncing scheduler - ITT forums is the best place to search for that stuff03:54
pupnikhah03:54
K`zanREAL tired of the screen requiring constant calibration on the Z31 (or screwing around to compensate for it).03:55
pupnikif you're outside much, the N810 screen is said to be daylight readable03:55
K`zanFirst thing I do with anything new anymore is scratch it with a key so I am over worrying about it all :-) Lol103:55
pupnikgah03:55
K`zanThat would be nice, the Z31 is completely useless in that department...03:55
K`zanOld Vx/C3 was quite usable.03:56
pupnikso is my psion netbook (dstn tft)03:56
elbthat was really nice about the old school palms with their B&W displays03:56
pupnikyes, and the psion mx5 too03:56
K`zanYep and batteries lasted FOREVER.03:56
elbyou could use them absolutely anywhere03:56
K`zanYep, unlike the Z3103:56
elbyeah, I put new AAAs in my IIIc ... seldom03:56
K`zan:-).  Ran the C3 for years and battery was never a problem.03:56
elbmaybe 2-3 times a *year*03:57
K`zanI use it a LOT more for an ebook reader than anything else.03:57
elbof course, the old Palms cheated, a bit, in that they went to sleep after just a few ms of idle time03:57
K`zanGood for something to do in checkout lines :).03:57
elband the only thing that was refreshed was that cheap, cheap, cheap LCD03:57
K`zanYep, true, no color, only 8M of  flash....03:57
K`zanShame palm has gotten so sleezy since then :-(.03:58
milhouseare maps downloading for anyone?03:58
milhousemy download progress bar is stuck and not moving03:58
K`zanWonder if gpsdrive or roadnav works on the 800?!?03:58
elbthere is a GPS kit for the 80003:59
K`zanWould be nice to plug in the GPSMAP76CS.03:59
elbwhich includes software, the GPS unit, and maps03:59
elb(I think OS2008 will have the maps built-in, yes?)03:59
K`zanAlready spent my GPS fortune on the Garmin :-/.03:59
milhouseaha it's advancing very very slowly (the map download progress bar) :)04:00
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elbheh I carry an eTrex Legend with me everywhere I go04:00
GeneralAntillesK`zan, maemo mapper04:00
GeneralAntillesor Navicore04:00
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Thanks, good to know.04:00
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't bother with the kit04:00
GeneralAntillesGet an i-blue 737 or some other MTK based bluetooth GPS04:00
K`zanSilly newbie question, can one raid the debian / ubuntu repositories for stuff for the n800 or only maemo?  Yeah, I really am seriously ignorant at this point and working hard to resolve it :).'04:01
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Hadn't thought of that - nicer package wise.04:01
juh0you need to download maps if you use n800 and os2008, i just tested bluetooth gps receiver with os2008's wayfinder04:01
GeneralAntillesThe debian stuff has to be recompiled04:02
GeneralAntillesnot 100% straightforward04:02
K`zanHeh, not even sure which OS the one I am lookjng at comes with, but that appears not to be a problem.04:02
GeneralAntillesthe GUI stuff has to be ported for Hildon04:02
K`zanMakes sense, There is an SDK I notice.04:02
derfK`zan: They're a good starting point but you'll generally need to do some repackaging, even for non-GUI things.04:02
K`zanCurrently running fedora, which I am not sure I'll stick with at this point.04:02
K`zanderf: Not a great problem, unlike the Palm crap, I have a far better start with the n800, I think.04:03
K`zanbrv04:04
K`zanbrb04:04
pupniktry sidux!  a modern, free debian sid without the instability.04:05
K`zanBest price I have seen is from buy.com - $228.04:06
GeneralAntilles21804:06
GeneralAntillesthere's a $10 off floating around04:06
K`zanGot that too :)04:07
K`zanAll I got to do is check out....04:07
pupnikcrazy cheap04:07
K`zanMight as well do it :-).04:07
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K`zanNo open WIFI around here other than mine (open to me) and doing internet stuff through AT&T (any cell?) is god awful expensive :-(.04:09
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GeneralAntilles$20 for unlimited last time I checked04:09
GeneralAntillesAs long as you overlook the whole "no tethering" part.04:09
K`zanHaven't considered it because the cell phone just sucks for that (razor v3xx).04:10
K`zanNo tethering?  As in running an access point NATted through it?04:10
GeneralAntillesbluetooth04:10
pupniksome ppl have reported headaches with pairing stability with razrs04:11
K`zanHow else you going to do that?  Other than BT?04:11
GeneralAntillesMotorolas of any kind are garbage04:11
K`zanBT modem I think it is.04:11
K`zanAll the choices for the "free" phones suck, the razor just sucked least - all I wanted that for at the time was a PHONE :-).04:11
K`zanAt least with the razor I don't have to confirm EVERYTHING I do by BT.04:12
elbyes, phones should just be phones04:12
elbphone/camera/mp3 player/PIM/blah blah blah is stupid04:12
GeneralAntillesDepends on the brand04:12
GeneralAntillesThe Treos are stupid04:13
K`zanAgree, because I have to have a cell (disabled partner) I hate both the provider and the phone...04:13
GeneralAntillesblackberries are pretty terrible04:13
GeneralAntillesBut the Nokia smartphones are awesomely badass04:13
K`zanNoticed that, can't imagine why anyone would want one.04:13
K`zanNo nokias unf, my old Nokia (no longer supported) I loved.04:13
elbI want a phone that's just a phone04:13
K`zanMe too.04:13
elbone of those third-world jobs with the B&W sunlight-readable displays would RULE04:14
elbbut they don't sell them here :-P04:14
K`zanI *resent* dumping something on me that is crippled "for security" (my arse).  Verizon was really offensive about that.04:14
GeneralAntillesMy Samsung AGH-A717 was only $5004:14
GeneralAntilles3g is fun. :D04:14
K`zanFun, but EXPENSIVE as hell.04:14
GeneralAntilles$20/mo04:14
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GeneralAntillesNot really that expensive04:15
GeneralAntillesEspecially for what I'm getting04:15
K`zan$50 for the phone a month is about what I pay for comcast cable...04:15
elbheh I pay $23/line/month for my cell phones04:15
K`zanThat screen sucks out loud for net work.04:15
K`zanelb: hate you :).04:15
elb$20/mo would be doubling the pirce ;-)04:15
pupnikN800 is too cheap.04:15
elbK`zan: you could, too, if you have AT&T wireless ... you'd just have to have 5-6 lines ;-)04:15
GeneralAntillesWhat, tempted, pupnik? :P04:16
* K`zan HATES AT&T / Cingular / AT&T/...04:16
elbthey've been ok to me04:16
K`zanBut they were better than the other choices :-/.04:16
elbI had Sprint before, they were a nightmare04:16
K`zanOverall04:16
K`zanThey all are screw jobs, just how does one want to be screwed (or raped...).04:16
elbyeah04:17
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elb"We don't care.  We don't have to.  We're the phone company."04:17
GeneralAntillesHehe04:17
GeneralAntillesI had Nextel back in the day04:17
GeneralAntillesThey had great phones and great service04:17
GeneralAntillesthen they went to shit about a year before the merger04:17
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GeneralAntillesNow I have AT&T and I really like it.04:17
GeneralAntillesGood coverage, good service, good prices.04:18
GeneralAntilles(comparatively, at least ;))04:18
K`zanService on G3 is a hell! of a lot better than the TDMA I had.04:18
K`zanYep, as I said, overall better than the rest.04:18
K`zanAnd I get rollover :)04:18
juh0i got unlimited 3G data plan 10 euros per month, love it04:18
K`zanHere in the US t hey rape you for that, cheapest I've seen was about $30 for some piddling amount.04:19
K`zanNOT.WORTH.IT...04:19
elbmobile phone service sucks in the US, period04:19
K`zanI'll browse from home, thankyouverymuch.04:19
GeneralAntilles$20/month for unlimited 3g access, K`zan. With AT&T ;)04:19
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K`zanelb: You are WAY too kind.04:19
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Sure didn't find that under any data plan when I looked.04:20
elbhaving had phones in the US, Japan, and Russia ... we get the short end of the stick04:20
elbif all you do is a lot of voice calls, the US is the place to be04:20
K`zanByting bullet and ordering the N800 now....04:20
elbbut if you want to use SMS or data ...04:20
K`zanYep, but net access is a BAD joke here.04:20
GeneralAntillesGet yourself a couple SD cards ASAP04:20
GeneralAntilles8GB SDHC is the best price point04:20
elb(I note with amusement that Amazon says the N810 "works only with Cingular or T-Mobile service"04:21
K`zanGeneralAntilles: At this point the N800 is going to break me, will prolly pull the 2G card out of the phone and the 1G out of the camera for now.04:21
K`zanLOL, seen the N800 listed as "unlocked" too :-), been pricing it for a while.04:21
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GeneralAntillesError reporting for repo issues is much improved. You can see which ones are having trouble and edit them from the error dialog.04:29
K`zanShould have it in 2 business days :).04:30
GeneralAntillesWoo04:31
GeneralAntilles'grats. :)04:31
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K`zanThanks, I've been agonizing over it for 2 weeks now, time to get off the pot :).04:32
K`zanAfter two weeks, I *am* serious :-)04:32
K`zanAdding #maemo to xchat for freenode :).04:32
GeneralAntillesYou'll learn a LOT in here.04:33
K`zanMuch appreciate that!  Hopefully!!! I'll be able to help and give some back too.04:34
* K`zan does indeed have MUCH to learn...04:34
K`zanGot it from them with 2 day shipping cheaper than anyplace else, hope I didn't save too much, if you know what I mean...04:35
GeneralAntillesbuy.com is reliable04:36
K`zanGlad to hear that, normally I get everything from newegg...04:36
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Thanks for staving off the after purchase paranoia LOL!04:37
GeneralAntillesHa04:37
GeneralAntillesnewegg was carrying the N800 a few weeks ago for a couple days at $399.99.04:37
K`zanI really am looking forward to this thing :-) got to be more fun than the WAPs with linux :).04:37
K`zanNoticed that, normally they have pretty good prices and I have NEVER had a complaint with service from them.04:38
K`zanBut will it run FGFS ;-)?04:38
GeneralAntillesGet to stocking up on ebooks for FBReader.04:38
GeneralAntillesrtf/txt/html is what I recommend04:38
GeneralAntillesFlight Gear?04:38
K`zanYes :-)04:38
GeneralAntillesHehe04:39
GeneralAntilles'course not. :P04:39
K`zanGot 2.7G worth of ebooks in the library.04:39
GeneralAntillesX-Plane is better, anyway.04:39
K`zanWell then just FORGET IT :).04:39
K`zanWell, if it run xplane, then I'll byte the bullet and live with it ;-).04:39
GeneralAntillesHehe04:40
GeneralAntillesAccelerated OpenGL would make me very happy.04:40
GeneralAntillesWe have the hardware but not the drivers. <_<04:40
K`zan:-(04:40
K`zanWould be fun to fly someplace (heh, not) and fly along :-).04:40
GeneralAntillesHa04:41
K`zanUntil they really do something with security, I ain't flying nowhere :-).04:41
K`zanMy poor wilted credit card :-/.04:41
GeneralAntillesI actually did that once on a Powerbook on a flight from Tampa to Tallahassee.04:41
GeneralAntilles(I won)04:41
K`zan2 4G SD cards next month.04:41
K`zanLOL04:41
pupnikTSA should make everyone strip and do a body cavity search in front of the waiting passengers04:41
K`zanObviously you didn't have to deal with ATC :)04:42
GeneralAntillesNo, everybody should have to fly naked.04:42
pupnikyeah04:42
K`zanOnly those that look like people who routinely do the kind of crap that makes security necessary...04:42
K`zanYou would be surpised what people can pull out of their arse :).04:42
K`zanGrew up around a hospital...04:43
K`zanEwwww. :-)04:43
GeneralAntilles<_>04:43
pupnikbtw how many people has the TSA killed so far?04:43
K`zanHeh, only old folks, WASPs and children...04:43
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K`zanI guess this would be a good time to spend reading through the user manual I downloaded a lot more seriously than I have been :-).04:46
GeneralAntillesManual's mostly a waste of time.04:46
GeneralAntillesGood teaser I guess, though.04:46
K`zanReally?  Better source?  Or just wait and play (like I do with everything else :-)?04:46
GeneralAntilleshttp://tabletschool.blogspot.com/04:47
GeneralAntillesand browse the archives of ITT04:47
K`zanYou mean maemo.org == ITT ?04:48
K`zanNew folder and bookmarked tabletschool...  Thanks!04:49
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com04:49
K`zanThank you Sir!04:49
GeneralAntillestabletblog.com isn't a bad one to stay on top of the news04:50
K`zanWill put it on my daily rounds until I get to be an expert guru ;-)!04:51
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GeneralAntillesAnybody have a Jaiku invite to toss over here?05:02
SyntraHey guys05:06
SyntraHas anyone ever used a USB keyboard on the N800?05:06
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unique311GeneralAntilles, i can send you one05:10
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unique311i have 8 left....anyone want a jaiku invite...just pm me.05:13
K`zanHeh, will have to look that up to see what it is :).05:19
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lopzhola05:21
SyntraA response to my question would be nice, if anyone has one.05:23
deejoeSyntra: yes05:23
SyntraWicked!05:23
SyntraIt worked and everything?05:23
deejoefor some value of "everything"05:23
deejoeI've used an apple bt keyboard and a thinkoutside folding keyboard05:23
SyntraSweet05:24
deejoeon the thinkoutside keyboard, several of the keys are supposed to be accessible by hitting the blue Fn key05:24
deejoehowever, it gets intercepted somehow by the n800 and so hitting Fn causes a menu to pop up instead of allowing use of, say, PgUp or Esc05:24
SyntraHmm05:25
deejoebut largely, yeah, it works.05:25
SyntraThats odd05:25
SyntraThe apple one works fine though, right?05:25
deejoeyeah05:25
SyntraThats the one I'm looking at05:25
deejoethough it's a bit bulky for my purposes.05:25
deejoeits fairly cheap and ubiquitous05:25
SyntraAhh I don't care too much about size.05:25
deejoewell, not ubiquitous, but not that hard to find.05:26
SyntraYeah05:26
SyntraI've found it05:26
Syntra55$ is the cheapest I've found it for.05:26
deejoeI was disappointed that Logitech is selling so many "wireless keyboards" with proprietary usb dongles.05:26
deejoe55$ sounds about right.05:27
SyntraYeah05:27
GeneralAntillesI know, deejoe, what's with the trend away from Bluetooth for input devices these days?05:28
deejoelogitech must figure they can get away with it.05:31
deejoemaybe they save on licensing, too.05:31
elbbluetooth is pretty darn crappy05:32
elbobviously designed by telephone people05:32
jacquesI've been trying to find a logitech 470 BT mouse for months, all the stores have 450s only05:32
SyntraInternet?05:33
_MonkeyInternet is in a loop? :-)05:33
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monarchhello all05:35
monarchHow is it going in here tonight?05:35
GeneralAntillesJust enjoying OS2008.05:35
monarchyeah, yeah, yeah05:35
monarchI am hoping to get mine soon ;-)05:36
monarchI am still on the 77005:36
monarchI am looking at getting an N810 when it is available in the US05:37
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GeneralAntillesWay too expensive.05:37
monarchit is currently, yes05:38
monarchbut it should come down in price over the next several months05:38
monarchI am looking at replacing my Wifes 770 with an 80005:39
deejoethe nice thing about the n810 coming out is what it did to the n800 price05:39
deejoe;-)05:39
pupnikN800 is too cheap.05:40
monarchI am actually one of the ones on the device program05:40
pupnikbut cheap = more sales and more devs hopefully05:40
monarchmy wife is going to get the n800 because of the two SD card slots05:40
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pupnikyeah better for media playback05:41
GeneralAntillesHow do you figure, pupnik?05:41
pupnikhow can i explain cheaper = more sales05:41
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GeneralAntillesNo, how it's "too cheap"05:42
pupnikoh i am just complaining cause i spent like 400 bucks for the 77005:42
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GeneralAntillesHa05:42
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GeneralAntillesI spent $380 for the 770 _and_ $400 for the N800. :P05:42
monarchpupnik:  I spent 450 for the 77005:42
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monarchI bought the $90 replacement plan along with the 77005:43
monarchI have put it threw its paces though ;-)05:43
pupnikyeah, the only alternative for me would have been a zaurus for more money05:43
monarchI have read several Tarzan books on it, as well as the scheduling, etc05:44
monarch;-)05:44
monarchfinally have GPE Calander that makes a sound during alarm05:44
monarchso that is cool05:44
nightwriterwell with a 770 and an n800 ... and now the n810 on the horizon... I wonder if you can cluster them ;)05:44
pupnikhave you looked at all the PIM style apps?  i think the leaders are GPE and 'pimco' or something like that05:44
monarchnightwriter: that'd be COOL05:44
monarchi have the latest GPE05:45
pupnik<slashdot>"imagine a beowulf cluster of..."</slashdot>05:45
pupnikhappy with it monarch ?05:45
monarchnot the one from garage, but the ones from somewhere in the internet ether05:45
nightwriterAfter today where we raid 5'd 6 1G key drives... anything is possible I guess05:45
monarchpupnik: it scared the shit out of me the first time the damn alarm went off05:46
monarchI was so used to it being quit05:46
monarchquiet05:46
monarchduring alarms05:46
monarchtotally unexpected ;-)05:46
tuxthepenguinAnyone here installed Maemo SDK (in particular maemo-explicit package) 3.0 and willing to help me with ideas on a problem I'm having installing ?05:50
tuxthepenguinerr 3.1...my goal is to setup 3.2 but it says install 3.1 first05:50
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tuxthepenguinthe directions say to install maemo-explicit for both targets (X86 and ARMEL)05:51
vabgeohi all, is support of glade removed from chinook?05:53
tuxthepenguinX86 went fine but ARMEL failed with a post install error during the install of hildon-input-method - apparently it tries to run an app as part of the post-install configuration process. That executable will not run (of course) because I am inside scratchbox and on an X86 machine - the app it wants to run in that scratchbox is of course an ARMEL binary so won't run.05:53
monarchpupnik: I am using the GPE files from http://www.cobb.uk.net/apt/05:53
monarchon the 770 the repository entry is:05:54
monarchhttp://www.cobb.uk.net/apt/05:54
monarchDist:  gregale   Comp:  user05:54
tuxthepenguinDo I need to anyone have any ideas? Do I need to setup my tablet as a transparent target and plug it in - or something like that???05:54
tuxthepenguinErr i meant to start that as "Anyone have any ideas"...followed by my question "Do I need..."05:55
pupnikty monarch05:57
monarchnp05:57
K`zanAppreciate you folks that can afford to ride the bleeding edge, makes things like the n800 possible for us poor folks :).05:58
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pupniktuxthepenguin: you install the armel root filesystem from a tgz file right?05:58
tuxthepenguinpupnik: I didn't, it must have been the SDK install script which did it?06:00
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pupniki created the target with sb-menu06:01
pupnikthen i pointed it to a downloaded root filesystem in the form of a tgz file06:01
pupnikwhat scratchbox are you using?06:01
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tuxthepenguinapophis R406:02
tuxthepenguini just followed the directions in the maemo install docs which started by saying how to install scratchbox using a script06:04
tuxthepenguinthen indicated i needed to install maemo SDK 3.0, so i used that automated install script next (I used the automated scratchbox setup too)06:04
tuxthepenguinwait let me restart that summary06:05
tuxthepenguin1) followed directions and installed scratchbox06:05
tuxthepenguin2) used automated install for maemo SDK 3.006:06
tuxthepenguin3) used automated install to put nokia binaries in place06:06
tuxthepenguin4) installed maemo-explicit to x86 target06:06
tuxthepenguin5) attempted to install maemo-explicit to ARMEL target06:07
tuxthepenguinthat's it in a nutshell...06:07
tuxthepenguinshould I have grabbed a root file system at some point? was it part of one of the automated installs?06:07
pupniki don't have experience with that06:07
pupnikno idea what 'maemo-explicit' is06:08
tuxthepenguinyou installed using a different process than the documentation describes?06:08
tuxthepenguinWhat did you do and where did you find the info?06:08
pupniki have an older scratchbox06:08
tuxthepenguinahh!06:08
pupniki think they changed the process a bit06:08
tuxthepenguinok which one: 2.0? 3.0?06:08
pupnikVersion: 1.0.706:10
tuxthepenguin(oops just noticed I said maemo 3.0 again - I am actually installing 3.1 so I can upgrade immediately to 3.2 - this is a clean install inside a nice user mode linux box)06:10
tuxthepenguinWow!06:10
tuxthepenguinthat's pretty old i suspect06:10
pupnikscratchbox version != maemo version06:10
tuxthepenguinahh yes... my mistake06:11
tuxthepenguinok06:11
pupnikinteresting uml06:11
pupniki use this soemtimes - might have some problems with scratchbox actually06:11
tuxthepenguinwhich maemo SDK do you have?06:12
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tuxthepenguindid you install the nokia binaries too?06:12
pupnikgregale, which is 2.2 i think06:12
tuxthepenguinI didn't mention it - but I also installed Xephyr - seems to work fine..06:13
pupnikif you are following instructions exactly and getting strange errors, i fear it could be related to the UML06:13
tuxthepenguinI kind of doubt it -the messages seem quite clear06:13
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pupnik"<tuxthepenguin> did you install the nokia binaries too?" i can not map this to my semantic grid06:14
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monarchhave fun06:15
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tuxthepenguinthe debian package is running a script (some sort of post-install process to configure things) - it tries to run an application which is present but is an ARMEL binary. when that fails, the post-install fails - this prevents other packages scheduled for installation to fail to install06:15
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tuxthepenguinpupnik: the directions indicate there are proprietary binaries from nokia that are provided so that you can run some of the commonly shipped apps on your tablet, in this dev environment - things like the control panel, the general window manager etc.06:17
tuxthepenguinthey point at an automated install script which will install theses in the scratchbox targets06:18
tuxthepenguinplease see these urls for the directions I'm following to get this all setup06:18
tuxthepenguinhttp://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo-3-x--bora-.html06:19
tuxthepenguinhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.2/maemo-sdk-relnotes_3.2.txt06:19
tuxthepenguinhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.2/INSTALL.txt06:19
tuxthepenguinhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.1/INSTALL.txt06:19
tuxthepenguinhttp://repository.maemo.org/stable/3.1/maemo-scratchbox-install_3.1.sh06:19
tuxthepenguinhttp://repository.maemo.org/stable/3.206:19
pupnikahhhhhh06:19
tuxthepenguinI succeeded with a previous install (SDK 2.0? 3.0) under uml06:19
pupniki never installed that stuff06:20
pupnikthanks for the explornation06:20
tuxthepenguinpupnik: are you doing maemo development for the tablet? *I'm puzzled*06:20
pupniksure, i build the stuff, copy it to the tablet, then test06:20
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tuxthepenguinwhich tablet?06:21
pupniker... doing development - not so much.  just some demo and performance test apps - mostly just porting and tweaking proggs06:21
pupnikhttp://pupnik.de/software.html06:21
_Monkeyhmmm... http://pupnik.de/software.html is the WIP page06:21
pupnik77006:21
tuxthepenguinahh ok i see - you don't test on your pc, you just copy it over to see if it works - must be pretty tedious when you need to debug06:22
pupnikgot gdb on the tablet06:22
pupnik'ain't nuthin like the real thing baybe'06:22
tuxthepenguin:-)06:23
tuxthepenguinLooks like you have been pretty busy porting things including the Palm Emulator - I should check that out - actually first I want to checkout the garnet port06:24
pupnikgarnet is supposedly better06:24
pupnikgarnetvm?06:25
_Monkeyi think garnetvm is available from Access, direct deb downloads 770: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n770.deb, N800 http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n800.deb and N810: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n810.deb06:25
tuxthepenguinpupnik: thank's for your assistance. I'm not sure there is much you can do since you don't know the maemo stuff I'm trying to setup06:25
tuxthepenguinmonkey: yes06:25
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pupnikyou're welcome, and sorry if i wasted your time - didn't quite get what you were doing at first06:25
tuxthepenguinpupnik: no problem.06:26
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tuxthepenguinany other developers here? - some which use maemo please?06:27
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GeneralAntillesis "Double press" a new option in mce.ini?06:36
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K`zanAt what point does the SDHC thing become an issue for SD cards?  4G ?06:38
GeneralAntillesThere are both kinds for 4GB06:38
GeneralAntillesBut the N800 will handle any SD card just fine.06:38
zerojayAnyone happen to know where the list of contacts is stored on the N800?06:39
zerojayI want to blow my contacts away and start fresh.06:40
K`zanOK, Thanks, somewhere I got the impression that above some value you needed SDHC for the cards to work.06:40
GeneralAntillesWell, yeah06:40
GeneralAntillesbut the N800 supports SDHC just fine06:40
GeneralAntillesso it's not an issue.06:40
K`zanErr, sorry to be dense, but if it doesn't matter what is the point of SDHC?!?06:41
GeneralAntillesIt matters for addressing the card blocks06:42
K`zanPerhaps older stuff that did't know about the limit (forget what it was now).06:42
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't matter for you buying cards to put into your N800.06:42
K`zanLike my camera or the palm.06:42
K`zanOk, looks like about $41/4G from newegg.06:43
GeneralAntillesSD addresses by byte and SDHC by sector06:43
GeneralAntillesIt's a difference on the card and in the software06:43
K`zanIf I have a choice would I be wiser to get the SDHC?06:43
GeneralAntillesso it matters on older devices which don't have support for sector addressing06:43
GeneralAntillesbut the N800 has support for both byte and sector addressing, so it doesn't matter.06:43
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GeneralAntillesWell, yes, because 8GB isn't that much more expensive and it's twice the capacity.06:44
K`zanSo the SDHC is for older devices and it fakes out older software - so to speak - so it can use more than it "should"?06:44
GeneralAntillesUh, no.06:44
K`zanArghhh06:44
GeneralAntillesSDHC is the new standard06:44
GeneralAntillesIt supports capacities over 4GB06:45
GeneralAntillesSD does not06:45
K`zanOK, so forget SDHC for older devices.06:45
GeneralAntillesSD does not because it addresses by byte, so it runs out of address space06:45
GeneralAntillesSDHC addresses by sector (bigger) so it doesn't run out of address space nearly as fast.06:45
K`zanSome limit on that.  IIRC my camera will only use 1G SD cards.06:45
GeneralAntillesBut SDHC wont work in older devices without a firmware update to those devices.06:45
* K`zan bangs head on wall :-)06:46
GeneralAntillesWell, there may be other variables involved on the camera side06:46
GeneralAntillesBut SD as a STANDARD only supports 4GB (well, 2GB, but they managed to hack up 4GB cards)06:46
K`zanIn the case of the N800, "don't worry about it" :-)06:46
GeneralAntillesRight.06:46
K`zan:-) done!06:46
K`zanLOL06:46
GeneralAntillesSorry, I have a tendency to bring technical issues into play when people don't really want/need to know about them. ;)06:47
K`zanNo problem, appreciate the education :-).06:48
K`zanI think I'll just go with the 2G and 1G cards I have until I have some clue about what I actually need on the n800.06:48
K`zanI got the 2G for the camera (Cannon S2IS) and I have yet to get even vaguely close to using up (at highest res) the 2500+ pix that can store :).06:49
GeneralAntillesHa06:49
GeneralAntillesDrop a couple of movies on there and it'll be done fast06:49
K`zanIn real every day use I could use the internal memory :).06:49
GeneralAntilleshell, cache a state or two in maemo mapper and it'll be done06:49
K`zanPoint made :-).06:49
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K`zanI am not really planning to use it for video, from what I gather it is rather choppy.06:50
K`zanOr was that just with utube stuff?!?06:50
K`zanHummm.06:50
GeneralAntillesIt's great for video06:51
GeneralAntillesYou just have to transcode ahead of time06:51
GeneralAntillesand/or get yourself a copy of06:51
GeneralAntillesmediaserv?06:51
GeneralAntillesUseless damn bot06:51
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1094806:51
K`zanAh, COOL, that is a 4G card in the camera!  Snarf and in goes the 64M one :)06:52
GeneralAntillesMPEG4 video at no more than 400x240 24-30fps at 1200-1500Kbps with MP3 audio in the 128Kbps range06:52
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K`zan150x 4g that should work :).06:53
K`zanand an 80x 1G06:54
* K`zan roots through the SD cards :)06:54
elbI'm hoping to be able to downcode videos from my myth06:54
* K`zan prowling for SD cards...06:55
GeneralAntillesPeople have mentioned it before, elb, so, yeah, you should be able to.06:55
GeneralAntillesK`zan, stick the 4GB in the internal slot and stick swap on there and cache your maps there.06:55
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elbI'm sure I can06:55
elbthe only question is whether I decide it's worht the time & effort06:56
elb(depends on the quality of video I can get on and at what sizes)06:56
GeneralAntillesIt looks great.06:56
elbI'll be space-constrained, I'm sure06:56
GeneralAntillesDo it on-the-fly06:57
elb... that's not very useful06:58
elbif I'm close enough to home for that, I'll watch on the TV ;-)06:58
GeneralAntillesThen what's with space constraints?06:58
elbI'm thinking more along the lines of at 20k feet over the Atlantic06:58
GeneralAntillesOf COURSE you're going to be a little constrained on the device06:58
GeneralAntillesjust buy yourself a pair of 8GB cards and you'll be set for a flight06:59
elbright, my point is, my quality will be determined by space, not what the device is capable of06:59
GeneralAntilles(and an extra battery if they don't have a jack)06:59
GeneralAntillesHehe, my opinion is to go with the best quality and whatever fits . . . fits. ;)06:59
elb'cause I can't afford two 8GB cards, either ;-)06:59
elbnear-TV-quality can be had in about 2GB/hour at 480x480 or so07:00
GeneralAntillesThen toss a book or two into the mix to fill the rest of the time.07:00
elb400x240 will be significantly smaller07:00
GeneralAntilles90MB per 12 minutes for me07:00
elbheh last time I flew to Russia, I read two Aubrey/Maturin novels on the way there :-P07:00
GeneralAntilles2GB/hour seems incredibly high07:00
elbright, that's near-tv-quality07:00
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GeneralAntilles1080i runs about 6GB/hour for me07:01
elbMPEG-2, I should say07:01
GeneralAntillesAh, right.07:01
elbMPEG-4 will be tighter07:01
fysai cron transcode the newest 2 gigs of video and rsync07:01
GeneralAntillesMy MPEG4 stuff from my EyeTV is about 1.3GB/hour at current settings07:02
GeneralAntilles740xsummuch07:02
fysaso there is always a few hours of stuff07:02
pupniki want a 60" flexible screen that i can set up flat, or wrap in a semi-circle around my head for 180 degree view while gaming07:02
GeneralAntillesHehe07:02
GeneralAntillesI just use the phat pipe coming out of my parent's house for on-the-go on-demand media. ;)07:02
GeneralAntillesAnybody else with OS2008 play with mce.ini yet?07:04
GeneralAntillesSeems to be some new settings07:04
K`zanWow, Cheap: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682021118007:05
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GeneralAntillesOut of stock, though. ;)07:07
K`zanSmall wonder :)07:07
fysaget the Transcend from buy.com07:07
K`zanMakes a difference here?  Will check that out.07:08
K`zan:-) even better prices :-), thanks!07:09
astro76K`zan, this transcend is good http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682020829307:09
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tuxthepenguinEureka! I got it. my problem was due to binfmt_misc support being missing in the uml kernel I got from nagafix as a canned quick start.07:09
fysaplus there are a few coupons out there07:09
l7is Transcend better than Kensignton for SD cards?07:09
fysajust make sure it's class 6..07:10
l7fysa: will class 4 be noticably slower?07:10
K`zanThanks, was just wondering about that :), 150x class6 none noted...07:10
tuxthepenguinanother canned kernel from there had it built-in (it was also newer - kernel 2.6.23 instead of 2.6.19rc507:10
l7i'm wondering if it's worth the extra $1007:10
fysaevery bit helps with the n800 :)07:11
l7ah :\07:11
K`zanis 150x better than class 6?07:11
l7the n800 is a little pokey?07:11
l7i tried it out in store, but i'm not sure if the firmware was updated07:11
l7K`zan: you can check out this page for tests: http://www.valuemedia.co.uk/sd_chart.htm07:12
fysa... it's a handheld.  without a hdd and with 128mb.  faster card = faster swap07:12
K`zanIs the flash a disk in the N800 or RAM - yes, my ignorance at this point is legion, sigh...07:12
l7hrm yeah07:12
astro76these speed tests cover SDHC cards http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388.html07:13
K`zanOr both...07:13
_Monkeyboth are important07:13
K`zanLOl07:13
astro76and if you compare kingston class 2 versus class 6, there's hardly a difference, so take the classes with a grain of salt http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388-2408-87.html07:13
GeneralAntillesThere flash in the device for storage and there's RAM inside the device, too.07:14
l7the n810 spec sheet says it has 128mb ddr ram and 256MB flash...07:14
GeneralAntillesclass2 is AT LEAST 2MB/sec07:14
GeneralAntillesclass6 is AT LEAST 6MB/sec07:14
astro76indeed07:14
l7i wonder how much of a speed edge the n810 will have...07:14
GeneralAntillesNone.07:14
l7http://europe.nokia.com/A430506307:15
l7oh right, nvm07:15
l7a good argument for buying the n80007:16
l7so does anyone know another website that has benchmarks for sd cards?07:18
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l7i guess if one were a true gearhead, one could buy a sandisk extreme 3 card07:21
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astro76l7, I can't see that it's worth it for these devices07:25
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l7 astro76: yeah, i tend to agree07:25
l7i suppose one could benchmark the differences between transcend and sandisk extreme07:26
l7if you were as obsessive as me :)07:26
fysasd extreme is twice the price.07:26
fysaso it's out07:26
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l7transcend 8gb seems to have somewhat better reviews on newegg than the a-data07:27
astro76l7, I believe that 8gb transcend is by far the best deal right now07:27
astro76I have 1 and will get another soon ;)07:28
GeneralAntillesFor all the doubters: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/new_os2007_he_for_the_nokia_770_with_mozilla_engine_and_memory_corruption_bugfix.html07:28
l7http://www.adorama.com/KGSD68GB.html07:29
pupnik_We should have a thread on ITT forums with a dd speed test read/write, device (770,800,810), kernel version and card type07:30
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l7Kingston Technology 8 GB Class 6 comes out to $55 after rebate07:30
fysaeh07:30
GeneralAntillesMIR's a pain07:30
l7yeah it is07:30
astro76l7, IMO you always have to compare prices assuming you will not get the rebate07:31
l7i'm curious about the kingston's speed vs the transcend07:31
l7astro76: i'm strongly in favor of the transcend right now07:31
astro76l7, here's that comparison07:31
astro76http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388-2439-161.html07:31
astro76l7, as you see it is close, and the transcend is actually better at writing small files07:31
l7astro76: ah, excellent link07:32
l7i just was noticing how slow my usb thumbdrive was at writing small files yesterday07:33
l7kingston also has a crazy 266x card for $12007:34
l7AR07:34
GeneralAntillesThis map download is taking FOREVER07:34
l7transcend seems like the best bet so far though07:34
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pupnik_sdhc mini-sd slow to appear in germany07:37
db48xGeneralAntilles: did you notice the file size?07:37
lopzbye07:37
GeneralAntilles~733MB07:37
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GeneralAntillesFirst one died at 50% after 3 hours07:37
db48xyea07:38
db48xit's died twice for me07:38
db48xI guess I'm giving up07:38
* db48x has no gps anyway07:38
GeneralAntillesmaemo mapper is better, anyway.07:38
l7interesting sd card forum here: http://iaudiophile.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-16901.html07:39
GeneralAntillesHa07:39
GeneralAntillesWay too much work for some stupid memory card. ;)07:39
l7GeneralAntilles: yeah, it's academic07:40
* l7 is obsessively detail oriented when it comes to buying gear07:40
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K`zanl7: isn't alone :-)07:40
GeneralAntillesI can understand that07:40
GeneralAntillesbut . . . for memory cards? :\07:40
l7http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/ for unrelated flash benchmark porn07:40
pupnik_relevant to my interests07:41
l7GeneralAntilles: yeah, i guess it's not really _that_ big of a purchase07:41
l7compared to say, buying a digital camera07:41
l7or gps07:41
l7you pays your money and takes your chances i guess07:41
GeneralAntillesHehe, GPS is an easy one to answer: MTK ;)07:42
K`zanStill, ya gotta live with what you get, so you might as well do it as well as you can...07:42
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pupnik_the kingston 4GB minisdhc is one of the few available in germany for N810 - 20.5MB/s read and 5.7MB/s write sounds grrreat07:42
* K`zan is NOT neurotic :)07:42
l7K`zan: yup, i know the feeling07:42
l7there's so many choices in the market07:42
l7it's good and bad07:42
K`zanYep, way too damn many07:42
astro76pupnik_, how about micro sdhc? seems like that is more popular, 8gb has just been announced07:43
K`zanTrue, but why do we need 5000 of the same thing with different names /skus?07:43
l7GeneralAntilles: does MTK GPS chipset = iblue?07:43
K`zanOne company makes them then 100 sell them with different packaging and prices :)07:43
astro76l7, many use MTK07:44
pupnik_astro76: maybe yes - if micro has higher volume they could be cheaper07:44
l7i wonder if it will outperform the n810's gps07:44
GeneralAntillesBasically, l7.07:44
GeneralAntillesHolux, too07:44
l7wow07:44
l7er, which is better, Holux or MTK?07:44
l7is there a kind of newbie FAQ for what accessories are best for the n800 somewhere?07:44
GeneralAntillesHolux like i-blue07:45
GeneralAntillesIt's a GPS brand07:45
GeneralAntillesnot the chipset07:45
astro76l7, holux is a brand, some use sirf iii and some use mtk07:45
l7or do you just kind of get it through osmosis here ? :)07:45
pupnik_http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/speed-by-cards-sdc.html#cdet-ki44  varry nice chart07:45
astro76l7, I have decided on either the m1200 or m1000b http://www.holux.com/JCore/en/products/products_list.jsp?pno=207:46
GeneralAntillesI'd just get the i-blue 73707:46
GeneralAntillesor 757 if you have a use for solar07:47
l7hmm, the cool thing about getting a n800 + gps is that you can use the gps with your bluetooth phone too, in theory07:47
astro76yeah that solar one is cool07:47
astro76pupnik_, wow that sandisc 6gb microsdhc is a really good card07:47
l7is it easy to say which is better: the holux or one of the iblues?07:48
pupnik_yeah looking for it right now07:48
GeneralAntillesThere's not a huge difference, l7.07:49
GeneralAntillesI _really_ like my i-blue, though.07:49
astro76l7, yeah those are both very popular and both use same chipset07:49
l7GeneralAntilles: what do you like and or dislike about it?07:49
pupnik_as usual germany is lagged behind the rest of the planet - no sdhc cards in the major shops07:49
l7astro76: i guess that means they'll have the best software support in the maemo community then07:49
pupnik_hc micro that is07:50
GeneralAntillesThe only thing I might possibly complain about is that the LEDs are a little bright when it's sitting on the dash cruising down the pitch-black interstate at night.07:50
GeneralAntillesOtherwise, it's small, durable, fast, accurate, reliable and with incredibly long battery life.07:50
l7you could put some electrical tape over the LEDs07:51
astro76l7, any bluetooth gps should enjoy the same support, that said I tend to stick to reputable brands ;)07:51
GeneralAntillesHa07:51
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GeneralAntilles"might possibly"07:51
GeneralAntillesthat's if I were digging as deep as I could for a complaint.07:51
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l7i guess the most important thing is that it has a good GPS connection07:52
l7i'm basically a newbie to GPS, but i thought i should plan to get all my n800 gear around the same time to make sure i like the setup07:53
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K`zanWell, I have reached terminal confusion with *SD* cards, break time...07:54
l7hrm, GPS + bluetooth camera looks fun too07:54
l7K`zan: perhaps you should just get the Transcend :)07:54
GeneralAntillesYeah, I was going to try and rig something up with a waterproof box, a bluetooth gps and digital camera for my canoe trips07:55
GeneralAntillesTake photos in the water tied to GPS locations07:55
GeneralAntillesYes, K`zan, get the 4GB or the 8GB class6 Transcend.07:55
l7GeneralAntilles: so the iblue 757 is more or less perfect? :)07:56
K`zanGeneralAntilles: or the 150x one :).07:56
GeneralAntillesGet the SDHC07:56
l7K`zan: what is the 150x one?07:57
l7it's not SDHC?07:57
GeneralAntillesBasically, though durability is slightly reduced with the 757 versus the 73707:57
K`zanI'm going to limp along with the 5G worth of cards I have until next month and then either 4 or 8G.07:57
GeneralAntilles150x is plain SD07:57
K`zanl7: Damnifiknow, the 4G one I had in the camera is 150x but how that compares to a "Class 6" I ain't got clue frickin one...07:58
astro76there is actually an 150x SDHC 4GB http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388-2437-161.html07:58
astro76most stores have the non SDHC one07:58
astro76and neither are worth it for the n80007:58
l7if you're feeling crazy, you can get the sandisk iii 8gb class 6 for $100 AR i think07:58
K`zanBy the time cash replentishes itself I might have a clue as to what I *actually* need :).07:58
l7http://www.adorama.com/IDSCF8GE3.html#SanDisk-8-GB-Extreme-III-Compact-Flash-Memory-Card.07:58
GeneralAntillesErm, l707:59
astro76unless you have a high end digital camera, it's overkill07:59
GeneralAntillesThat's not SD. :\07:59
K`zanCannon S2IS07:59
astro76heh07:59
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l7astro76: hrm the 150x has an improved write speed...08:00
l7might speed up the n800 slightly... in theory08:00
l7might also be an unmeasurable different08:01
l7difference08:01
l7GeneralAntilles: oops :\08:01
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* l7 compares weight between iblue 757 and 73708:02
l7757 would be better for hiking... if there's sun08:02
l7otherwise the solar might be extra weight08:02
GeneralAntillesDo I feel like flashing my 770s tonight?08:02
l7is flashing particularly time consuming?08:03
l7people seem to regard it with a certain dread08:03
K`zanNo, just a few buttons ;-)08:03
GeneralAntillesFlashing, no.08:03
GeneralAntillesBut reinstalling all those damn apps and reconfiguring everything, yes.08:03
* l7 wonders if it's possible for the iblue to link to the n800 and a phone simultaenously...08:03
l7ah reconfiguring08:04
GeneralAntillesWhat's the point of linking to a phone?08:04
l7i don't suppose it would be easy to simply back up your configurations as well08:04
l7if you ever wanted to reflash the entire thing with configuration intact08:04
l7GeneralAntilles: er i meant camera, not phone08:05
pupnik_these microsd do not seem to come with adapter to minisd - usually just SD-adapter08:05
l7and perhaps mount the camera on a tripod and get the phone to transmit photos for review to the n800 after each shot...08:06
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l7http://sewelldirect.com/Solar-Energy-Bluetooth-GPS-Data-Logger.asp08:10
l7http://sewelldirect.com/iBlue-737-High-Sensitivity-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver.asp08:10
l7both the 757 and 737 are 46.5 x 72.2 x 20 mm08:11
l7the 757 is 40 grams heavier...08:11
l7http://www.mtekk.com.au/Articles/tabid/54/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/791/iBlue-757-Pro-32-GPS-and-Data-Logger.aspx08:13
l7In every way the unit has significantly better performance than the PS-737, and that’s saying something because the PS-737 was and still is an excellent unit.08:13
K`zanWhat voltage does the charger for the N800 put out?08:14
K`zanThinking of making up a pack to recharge or run off of like I have for the Zire (4 AA NIMHs).08:15
GeneralAntilles3.7, I think08:15
* GeneralAntilles is too lazy to check under the desk08:15
db48xK`zan: look on the charger body, it'll say08:15
K`zanThanks, that should be easy :).08:15
K`zandb48x: I'll have that in two business days :).08:16
db48xheh08:16
K`zanFOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)08:16
K`zanIG!!!!!!!!!08:16
l7http://www.buygpsnow.com/i-blue-edition-2-i-blue-737-iblue-i-blue-ps-737-32-channel-bluetooth-gps-gps-receiver-waas-auto-on-off-679.aspx08:16
l7737 is $50... wow08:16
GeneralAntillesDC 5.0v 890mA08:17
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K`zanGood price on that, perhaps sell my GPSMAP76CS and get that.08:17
l7astro76: which holux do you have btw?08:18
GeneralAntillesThere's one down.08:19
K`zan890 mA, wow.  Sluuuuuuuuuuuurp.08:19
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l7hrm, the iblue's auto-off feature seems to put a point in it's favor08:25
GeneralAntillesI just leave it on and plugged in in the center console of my Camry.08:25
GeneralAntillesThere's a jack in there08:25
GeneralAntillesTake it out and set it on the dash when I use it.08:25
l7hrm, i'll probably be travelling with it in my backpack more than in a car08:26
l7so i guess i can skip the solar08:26
l7http://tabletblog.com/2007/09/thoughtfix-is-biggest-nerd-ever.html08:27
GeneralAntillesHehe08:28
l7i guess i *could* carry the solar gps around in my hand or strapped to my backpack when hiking08:29
l7but that seems a bit much08:29
K`zanHat mount!08:29
db48xhaha08:29
K`zanJust a big beany on top of the hat :-)08:29
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l7K`zan: lol08:30
K`zanGet one of those hats with the fans and drink holders and no one will ever notice :).08:30
db48xactually, I'd been thinking that a hat mounted 360° would be pretty cool08:30
db48xactually, I'd been thinking that a hat mounted 360° camera would be pretty cool08:30
astro76l7, neither though my friend just picked up a m1200... either that one or the m1000b08:31
l7K`zan: you could get this holster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz8EtJzeDQ008:31
K`zanSmall rotor would be nice too :) LOL08:31
l7:)08:31
l7haha, a rotor08:31
l7solar powered no doubt08:31
db48xyea, that'd be cool08:31
db48xsolar powered beanie08:31
l7astro76: any raves or gripes baout the m1200 / m1000b?08:31
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l7i saw a forum post about the lack of an auto-power off08:32
l7other than than 9/1008:32
astro76no he loves the m120008:32
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astro76doesn't mind the switch08:32
drcoffeethis is probably the question of the day, but will ask again: is IT OS 2008 available to download for the n800?08:33
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pupnik_instructions to get os2008 working on n800 http://pastebin.com/m16dd593708:33
drcoffeethanks!! Anything I should watchout for?08:34
l7okay i'm in information overload mode too08:35
l7i should go digest this and look at digicam magazines08:35
pupnik_i don't know - just copied the link08:36
drcoffeeok, I'll be back once I get this done.08:36
GeneralAntillesNope, not particularly, drcoffee08:37
GeneralAntillesThe softpoweroff configuration is a little more complicated.08:37
GeneralAntillesYou're going to have to wait for most applications to have ports released.08:38
l7now all i have to decide is between the 737 models and 747...08:39
GeneralAntillesMeh, I'd go 73708:39
GeneralAntillesThe caching on the 747 isn't really that useful.08:39
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L0cutusre08:41
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GeneralAntillesUrgh . . . MicroB on OS2008 is SO MUCH BETTER. :D08:43
db48xbetter in what way?08:43
GeneralAntillesFaster, stronger, more stable08:46
GeneralAntillesd-pad scrolling works08:46
pupnik_is it usable on a gross script-heavy site like digg.com?08:47
pupnik_also does it run youtubes fast like in the thoughtfix videos?08:47
GeneralAntillesWell, MicroB on OS2007 was fine already, but yes and yes.08:47
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pupnik_ty08:48
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GeneralAntillesSomebody want to hax up 12pt Plankton for OS2008. :D08:55
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K`zanThanks much for everything folks!08:57
K`zanTime to go fall over, see ya tomorrow.08:57
pupnik_cu09:01
fysahmm. crap.09:02
fysahow can I get evince to work with cbr properly?09:02
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l7 re09:06
l7GeneralAntilles: caching = recording your trips?09:06
l7i guess you could set the n800 to do that if you had it with you...09:07
GeneralAntillesThe 747 will record GPS points independent of a host device.09:07
l7it does look nifty for travelling... if one left the n800 behind09:08
GeneralAntillesI'd just record with the N80009:08
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GeneralAntillesEspecially since you want to NAVIGATE with it09:08
GeneralAntillesnot just look back at where you went.09:08
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l7hrm yeah09:10
l7the only reason i might leave the n800 behind is bulk09:10
db48xalso "Please note that recorded data can only be downloaded through USB interface only."09:11
l7looks like it's a $20 premium for the 747 over the 73709:11
l7yeah, so the n800 would be the hotel or something...09:11
l7not all that practical09:11
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astro76l7, you clearly don't have an n800 yet... you will never want to leave it behind ;)09:13
fysait's a nice size.09:13
l7astro76: surgicial implantation is always an option :)09:14
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GeneralAntillesAnybody successfully download any of the US maps?09:14
l7i'm just starting to think: n800 + gps + keyboard + camera + phone...09:15
l7it's a lot of gadgets09:15
db48xastro76: unless you've been spoiled by scifi devices that haven't been built yet :)09:15
l7i need like 1 supergadget...09:15
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db48xhas anyone here read "Fast Times at Fairmont High"?09:16
l7or 7 extra pockets..09:17
astro76l7, that's why I'm leaning towards holux m1200, it's as big as a bic lighter09:17
l7heard of it, haven't seen it09:17
astro76cell phone on belt clip... I'm set ;)09:17
l7astro76: where does the n800 go? :)09:18
GeneralAntillesPocket!09:18
astro76l7, it will actually fit in my jeans pocket fairly comfortably09:18
GeneralAntillesleft pocket is my pen, Leatherman and keys, right pocket is cellphone, N800, (GPS)09:19
l7i guess one could try to get used to cargo pants...09:19
l7are cargo pants still "in"?09:19
vegaithey never were.09:19
GeneralAntillesPft . . . cargo09:19
GeneralAntilleskeyboard you don't need to carry everywhere09:20
l7true09:20
l7ditto with the camera09:20
GeneralAntillesCamera should have a case, anyway09:20
l7though it would be nice to have a little casio exlim09:20
GeneralAntillesJust get yourself a fanny-pack. :P09:20
astro76heh, they really were never in09:21
l7or geek holster :)09:21
db48xit doesn't matter what else you wear if you have a solar powered propeller beanie09:21
l7man purse09:22
GeneralAntillesHa09:22
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GeneralAntillesThat could work.09:22
l7http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/bags/918a/09:22
l7this is kinda cool09:22
l7as long as if you don't have to remove your jacket09:22
GeneralAntillesYeah09:22
astro76hehe09:22
l7once you do, people will be like: "Nice man purse."09:23
GeneralAntillesJust wear something with aluminum.09:23
astro76people will think you're packing and you pull out an n80009:23
l7astro76: great, that mean cops will shoot at me09:23
GeneralAntillesHa09:23
GeneralAntillesYou should have a permit, ANYWAY.09:23
l7oi09:24
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l7http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/additional/large/shoulderholster_back.jpg09:24
astro76that's so bad :p09:24
l7seriously, halloween is the only day to really wear this thing09:24
db48xheh09:24
l7unless you work for a government agency09:24
db48xunless you keep a gun in it09:25
l7are guns compatibly with n800s?09:25
db48xthe gun would counterbalance the man-purse look09:25
l7i thought it was all about linux and openness, peace love, etc.09:25
l7haha09:25
astro76and you could shoot anyone who made fun of you09:26
l7well people would think twice about saying it to your face09:26
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l7i was contemplating buying a vest today09:26
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db48xhttp://eyetap.org/research/wearables/wearcomp/wearables.html09:28
db48xthere's a good picture09:28
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l7this page has moved?09:29
l7i keep hearing that wearable computers are going to be the next big thing09:29
GeneralAntillesHehe = NITs09:30
l7as soon as somone makes the iphone of wearable computers i guess09:30
l7NITs?09:30
GeneralAntilles*Insert a period or something in there.09:30
GeneralAntillesNokia Internet Tablets09:30
l7oh ok09:30
l7well i guess i could velcro an n800 to my clothing09:30
l7damn, those star trek badges were pretty cool i guess09:32
GeneralAntillesHa09:32
GeneralAntillesI like how they got bigger.09:32
l7they got bigger?09:32
l7i must have missed something09:32
GeneralAntillesFrom the original fabric patches to actual device things09:34
l7oh yeah09:34
l7i never watched the original much09:35
* l7 wants a working fabric n80009:36
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l7alright, time for bed09:37
l7'nite all09:37
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pupnik_Does OS2008 have built-in support for MMC 4.x wide-bus support and 48/52 mhz bus speeds?09:50
pupnik_48mhz support: "Nokia have done tests where it’s proved unreliable and TI won’t vouch for it - so I don’t blame them for disabling it." - Philip Langdale09:51
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czrmornink09:56
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unique311anyone running 2008 on the n800?10:03
czrunique311, why do you ask?10:05
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unique311i saw the post on ITT10:06
unique311and was just curious10:06
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czrafaik the 2008 release is not yet available for n800. which post are you talking about?10:09
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unique311http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=94458#post9445810:09
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czrah.10:09
czrpupnik did the update as well10:09
czrhttp://pastebin.com/m16dd593710:09
czrusing the n810 firmware10:09
czruh. posting a product id isn't good :-)10:10
sxperthaha10:10
unique311product id.10:10
unique311mac id, same thing?10:10
sxperttoo late10:10
sxpertit appears so10:10
czryes.10:10
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sxpertczr, won't get out of the internet10:10
czrsxpert, does not compute :-)10:11
sxpertthat product ID won't escape from the internet10:11
unique311but can't nokia put a block on that mac id10:11
czrah. let's hope so.10:11
unique311but then what happens to the individual with that device...he's screwed out of any future dls10:13
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gla55_well he can just get someone elses mac id.. :)10:13
unique311so pupnik, is it running good?10:14
pupnik_what?10:15
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unique3112008 on the 77010:15
doc|homehey pupnik :)10:15
pupnikhaven't tried it10:15
czrpupnik, oh. who did?10:15
czrjust saw your link to the pastebin10:15
unique311tempted...but friday might be the release.10:16
unique311so i don't see why.10:16
unique311i should brick my n800 before then.10:16
pupniki forgot doc|home do you have the N800?10:16
doc|homepupnik: not yet, got one today10:18
doc|homewell, won the ebay auction, waiting for it10:18
pupnikcongrats!10:18
doc|homethanks :)10:19
astro76supposedly the mac was from a nokia review device10:20
astro76I can wait for official release... glad to here the 400 MHz cpu is true though10:20
astro76* I mean a prerelease n810 sent from nokia to a reviewer10:21
unique311so the upgrade boost the cpu10:22
czrI guess it's a bug from nokia to allow the prerel macs to be used to download the firmwares then. or maybe not. who knows.10:23
unique311doesn't mean the release for the n800 will do the same10:23
astro76it's the same cpu as the n810... I read something about improved power management in the kernel enabling the bump10:23
astro76and yes it's been confirmed in the n80010:23
unique311cool10:23
pupnikyou'll still burn through battery faster if you're running games or movies, afaik10:24
astro76I'd imagine10:24
czrhmm. where would one see the max speed anyway?10:25
czrI mean under /proc or somewhere10:25
unique311video chat improved...10:25
vegai/proc/acpi/processor/... perhaps10:25
astro76no more fast-forward icon for the running program list :D10:26
czrvegai, no /proc/acpi/ :-)10:26
vegaioh, ok.10:26
pupnikso the sdhc card issue seems to be fixed maybe possibly... most complaints came from transcend cards?10:26
vegaiI don't have my device yet...10:26
astro76pupnik, what problem is that? no problems here with transcend 8gb sdhc.... AFAIK there is a 4gb model that many camera users have had problems with10:27
pupnikthere's all kinds of worrying chatter on the forum,  talk of fake brandname cards,  low quality cards from china,  a bug 1204 and a fix in the recent firmware10:28
_MonkeyBug 1204 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=120410:28
pupnikhah10:28
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pupnikwell.. considering number of users overall - i've just seen a handful of ppl with problems10:29
pupnikalways keep the perspective10:29
KhertanHu10:29
astro76pupnik, oh.. yeah you gotta stick to good brands from sources which don't sell counterfeits10:29
KhertanHi10:29
pupnikguten morning Khertan10:29
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KhertanI ve seen that some install 20087on n800 and some python dependencies are missing10:31
KhertanGuten tag pupnik10:31
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unique311wow, that was thoughtfix mac addy....shitty10:51
doc|homenot that big a deal really10:52
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xs1cht_104872http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=621909710:52
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KhertanEngadget too10:52
unique311lol10:53
unique311spam10:53
doc|homestupid spammers10:53
unique311hit and run10:53
unique311lol10:53
doc|homeso, someone clarify for me please, the n800 doesn't have gps, right?10:54
unique311no10:54
unique311you can buy a gps dongle.10:54
pupnikyou can pair with a bluetooth gps though, and get high quality reception10:54
pupnikbluetooth or usb?10:54
unique311bluetooth10:55
doc|homesure, but they say "integrated gps", that's not integrated10:55
* doc|home looks for the page10:55
unique311sue them for fall advertising then.10:55
gla55_who says?10:55
doc|homethe nokia website, while showing a black object that looks like a dongle10:55
unique311link10:56
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doc|homemy first thought being "if that has to connect to the n800, it's not integrated"10:56
gladiator09_1047http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=157935810:56
doc|homelooking for it now10:56
doc|homethat'10:56
doc|homes the same fucktard10:56
pupnikspammer eh10:56
unique311his here to stay10:57
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unique311gladiator09_1047, whats with the link?10:57
unique311too late10:57
gla55_some ref shit game prolly10:57
doc|homeyeah10:57
gla55_shittiest shit on the internet10:57
gla55_a moron detector as well though, anyone participating in them is a moron10:58
unique3112 hits...10:59
unique311third times a charm10:59
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doc|homeand of course, now I can't find the link :/11:01
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doc|homehttp://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-unboxed/11:03
doc|homeif you ctrl-f "integrated gps" I'm not the only person who has seen it11:03
doc|homeanyway, minor detail11:03
tigertwoot :)11:04
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unique311maybe it was a typo11:07
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tigertI guess it depends a lot on what the original text said?11:07
unique311http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2007/01/08/nokia-n800-does-navigation-too/11:08
tigertI know the N800 software update added an integrated gps framework11:08
tigertwhich integrates an api in software for apps to use I think11:08
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unique311keyword = new11:09
unique311which is the n81011:09
tigertyeah11:09
tigerthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Shuttle_mounting_point.JPG11:10
tigert:)11:10
tigertawesome11:10
doc|homenope, definitely said "integrated gps"11:11
sxperttigert, mwahahahaha11:11
doc|homeanyway11:11
doc|homezZzZz11:12
X-Fade_tigert: Nice ;)11:12
doc|homenight11:12
sxperttigert, I love the "note"11:12
tigertyeah11:12
tigertits pretty awesome :)11:12
JaffaMorning, all11:12
unique311hello11:15
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:22
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Kacohello guys11:29
KacoI'm planning to port my Photoshop to Maemo but it seems I missed discounts for developers on N81011:29
Kacois there any other way to get this nokia for development?11:30
Kacowell it's not for sale in my country as well :(11:30
cosmowe don't believe you've written Photoshop :)11:30
Kacocosmo: http://www.kanzelsberger.com11:31
cosmoquite nice this leaked os2008.. friend just demoed to me11:31
Kacocosmo: this is linux screenshot: http://www.kanzelsberger.com/img/linux.png11:32
Kacoapplication is highly portable and I can easily port it to Maemo11:32
cosmothat's Pixel, not Photoshop11:32
Kacohehe yeah11:32
Kacobut if I said Pixel, nobody knows what it is11:32
Kaco:-D11:32
pupniki've heard of it11:32
Kacopupnik: ok ;-)11:32
pupnikbtw nice looking app11:32
cosmohttp://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/index.html this is ps ;)11:32
Kaco:)11:33
Kacoso is there anybody I should officialy contact?11:33
Kacoor I just missed that11:33
cosmoPixel looks good.. i hope you can get it ported11:33
Kacocosmo: i checked prerequisities, it's doable in one weekend11:34
pupnikyou missed it, but n800s are fairly cheap now and just as fast11:34
Kacocosmo: polishing for 800x480 will take few more days11:34
czrcosmo, is he runnin 2008 on n800?11:34
cosmoczr: yep11:34
czrah. people have been wondering about it here.11:34
Kacopupnik: well I guess I'll buy N810 on web somehow when it is out11:34
czrcosmo, you're not running it yet? :-)11:34
cosmoKaco: how about lack of right mouse button?11:34
pupnikyou like the keyboard?11:34
Kacopupnik: yeah and GPS :)11:34
Kacowhen is it planned to go on sale? december?11:35
cosmoczr: not yet.. i've got other stuff to do with my n800 and at home i've got only 77011:35
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tux2hello11:35
pupnikI dunno, mid november supposedly11:35
czrcosmo, right. good info though. thanks11:36
tux2maemo planet11:36
cosmohe said the flash image is available at nokia d/l site and there's a mac code of n810 somewhere available. check blogs11:36
Kacopupnik: mid november is now?11:36
tux2I have a problem11:36
czrcosmo, the instructions did flow through here already :-)11:36
tux2with the edit of wiki11:36
czrcosmo, check the irclog ;-)11:36
czrmacs and all.11:36
cosmook, thanks11:36
tux2in particular with the page wikireorg11:36
Kacook and last question11:36
Kacois N800 and N810 compatible?11:37
pupnikyes, same OS11:37
Kacoi mean when I produce app for N800 will it work on N810 and vice versa?11:37
czrKaco, yes. if they both are running the same version of OS11:37
Kacook that's great11:37
pupniksome N800s will still be running older OS version11:37
tux2because don't link to the original page11:37
czrthe 2008 version hasn't been (yet/officially) been released for N80011:37
Kacoso N800 can be updated to OS2008?11:37
czrKaco, yes11:37
pupnikyes11:37
Kacoah ok11:37
Kacobut it is planned i guess11:37
czrit works nicely11:37
czrfor 2008, you'll want to use the 4.0 sdk though.11:38
Kacohmm but that keyboard really rocks on N81011:38
VeggenKaco: yes, soonish. There's an unofficial hack now.11:38
Kacook11:38
Kacothere's N800 on ebay for $260 ... and N810 will be something about $49011:38
tux2Can someone help11:38
Kacoi will think about it :)11:38
tux2me to the wiki problem11:38
pupniki promise not to work on mtpaint (cough)11:38
czrKaco, it boils down to the keyboard and gps really.11:38
Kacowell and that is a good reason for me to wait for N81011:39
czrKaco, maybe size too, but the size diff is pretty marginal11:39
Kacobut it's expensive damn it11:39
Kacoit also looks better ;-)11:39
pupniksony ux is expensive11:39
czrKaco, if you already have a working bt GPS, I'd go for the N80011:40
czrotoh, it's up to you of course :-)11:40
pupnikhow many commercial apps are there for the tablets?11:40
Kacowell GPS is not that important for me, more like a bonus11:40
Kacobut keyboard :)11:40
czrI still write faster with the vkb on n800 than the keyboard on n810 :-)11:41
Kacobut I guess there are some USB keyboards ?11:41
czrthe keyboard needs some time to get used to11:41
pupnikKaco - there appears to also be pressure sensitivity for the stylus that you can use11:41
Kacoczr: do you have N810?11:41
czrKaco, yes.11:41
Kacopupnik: oh with N810?? that's cool11:41
Kacoczr: but it is not yet on sale... so you've got dev version?11:41
czrI built one myself!11:41
* czr hides and runs11:41
astro76Kaco, no reason for ebay, it's ~230 in regular stores11:41
Kacoczr: haha, how?11:41
czrKaco, joking. dev version.11:42
Kacoczr: ok do you think it is still possible to get dev version from nokia?11:42
Kacoczr: I tried to contact them, but they left me with no response11:42
czrah, if you mean the developer program, then probably not11:42
astro76Kaco, the display on the n810 is also a big consideration11:42
Kacoastro76: yeah I read somewhere it has better contrast11:42
Kacoczr: hm too bad11:42
czrKaco, I didn't participate in the dev program. those will be sold when the device hits the markets11:43
astro76Kaco, it's transflective, readable in full sunlight11:43
Kacoczr: so how did you get it? :)11:43
Kacooh11:43
Kacohttp://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet_W0QQitemZ250185455384QQihZ015QQcategoryZ32233QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem11:43
Kacothere's one N810 on ebay11:43
czrKaco, it's a secret.11:43
Kacoahha :-D11:44
czrtimeless, hmm. weird. seems that keeping a youtube page open in microb will keep the device from going into powersave mode.11:44
czrtimeless, although not really sure whether this is a microb issue, but people are likely to run into it with youtube anyway11:44
czror maybe something else is happening.. mhmhm.11:45
czrcause now the backlight was shut off..11:45
gla55_well you wouldn't want to go to powersave when viewing a vid, no?11:45
gla55_maybe something in the flash?11:45
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czrgla55_, the vid is not running anymore11:45
czrcould be. I'll leave it on for a while, maybe it will repeat somehow. maybe a stupid user error too.11:46
c0ffeeis the developer program already over?11:48
astro76the 500 people have been notified already11:49
c0ffeeso i didn't get one this time :-/11:49
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unique311I took the plunge.11:54
unique311youtube plays well on the danm thing now.11:55
L0cutusunique311: really ? :)11:55
L0cutuslike a film or again low fps ?11:56
pupnikthat's a big plus for casual users11:56
unique311its not choppy11:56
unique311it plays smooth as soon as you click on the link11:56
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pupnikmy PC doesn't even do that :)11:57
unique311plus for os2008 looking really good11:57
unique311see how gizmo acts11:59
unique311and then test skype11:59
L0cutuswow11:59
L0cutusgreat11:59
unique311unable to install skype.12:00
L0cutushope os2008 for n800 coem out soon12:00
unique311not avail yet12:00
L0cutuscome*12:00
L0cutusunique311: i think i'll install in 'dual boot' :)12:00
L0cutusos2007 on internal flash and os2008 on mmc12:00
L0cutus:)12:00
unique311don't see why not12:01
unique311well i wouldn't12:01
L0cutusat least until a goon number of apps comes on os200812:01
L0cutusgood*12:01
inzczr, maybe it is a feature in the flash plugin to disable screen blanking during vid?12:01
unique311i took the change because i am going to get a n81012:01
Kacoanyway guys is there any GSM module for N800/810?12:01
X-Fade_L0cutus: How will you solve the 2 different kernels problem? ;)12:01
Kacoit would be great if there was possibility to use GSM with this tablet12:01
czrinz, the screen has been off now for a while. maybe not. one doesn't know :-)12:02
Kacoi could throw away my phone12:02
kulveKaco: no12:02
L0cutusX-Fade_: dunno :D12:02
kulve(afaik)12:02
Kacoyeah :(12:02
Kacooh maybe can I use my phone and do calls over bluetooth?12:02
kulveKaco: but voip is coming strongly :)12:02
pupnik on n770 i am getting 263kB/s write speed to 2GB kingston mmc12:02
Kacothat would be usable too12:02
X-Fade_L0cutus: The idea is nice, but you'd have to change the kernel each time you want to boot the other os..12:02
pupniksure about that?12:03
X-Fade_pupnik: And initfs too..12:04
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X-Fade_I'm pretty sure that dsme is NOT going to be amused when running on a different kernel ;)12:05
pupniktoo bad12:09
pupnikthere is not enough space for a multi-kernel bootloader?12:09
X-Fade_As far as I know, the kernel 'partition' is pretty small.12:10
pupnikso now to develop for all versions maemo one needs 4 devices?12:11
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pupnikor 312:11
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X-Fade_pupnik: Scratchbox not enough? :)12:12
pupnikfor some apps, no12:13
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L0cutuswhat's the best pdf viewer for n800 ?12:13
pupnikbut i think many people will upgrade to 200812:13
kulveL0cutus: evince?12:13
X-Fade_pupnik: My guess is that after a month orso almost all people run 2008 ;)12:13
L0cutusnot the internal one ?12:14
kulveL0cutus: hard to say, I have used only evince ;)12:14
L0cutusha ok :)12:14
pupniki am happiest just hating pdfs12:15
kulveand not much, I have to admit..12:15
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L0cutuspupnik: what's wrong with pdf ?12:16
L0cutusclosed format ?12:16
pupniktoo fat and slow12:16
czragreed.12:17
pupnikand yeah binary now.  early .ps was text-editable12:17
czrpupnik, why would you want to edit ps? :-)12:17
L0cutusalternatives ?12:17
TPCpdf as a format is not too fat and slow12:17
TPCthe problem is that people use it the wrong way12:17
TPCputting text as images for example, that makes pdfs very slow12:18
czrthe pdf base format is quite simple though. much easier to use than ps ever was. ps was too free-form for structural processing.12:18
pupnikgive another example12:18
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TPCwell, using it for the wrong purposes12:19
TPCdocuments intended for online viewing should be html12:19
TPCthats not what pdf was designed for12:19
TPCit was designed for having a single format that would look the same both on the computer and when printed12:20
pupnikpdf wasn't designed, it is a cancer12:20
TPCso its good for things like newspapers, books, some documents12:20
L0cutusi'm trying to open a 30mb pdf book ...12:21
pupnikL0cutus: well you can download pdf2html12:21
pupniki disagree that it's good.  i think it's bad.12:21
L0cutusthanks, i'll try12:21
czrpupnik, being cancer doesn't mean it wasn't designed. the current specs are quite bloated, javascript, flash and whatnot. but it doesn't mean that pdf wasn't designed12:21
TPCL0cutus, if its 30mb then it probably have lots of images12:21
L0cutusit is a rails book12:21
czrthe 1.0-1.2 were still pretty good versions. although 1.2 started getting a lot of complex operators and implementing them correctly is difficult.12:21
czrwhat still gets me is pdfs total lack of unicode support.12:22
czrit's just crazy what must be done in order to embed a ttf which uses unidode codepoints (more than 256 of them at once)12:22
TPCsure, it would be better if everyone switched to LaTeX12:22
TPCbut thats not going to happen12:22
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czrI'd think latex target is slightly different though12:23
czranyhow, back to work ->12:23
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sebu_hi! i locked my IT (n800) by accident (maemo didn't ask for original password when i accidentally chose "lock"). does anyone know how to fix this?12:24
sebu_nokia service centers are not very helpful, here in my area they don't know how to handle a n80012:25
czrtry 12345?12:25
czrhmm. didn't it ask you for a lock code when you did the "device lock"?12:26
sebu_czr, i had changed to code many months ago, i never itended so use the lock so i didn't remember the code :/12:26
czrah12:26
czrnot sure whether reflashing will erase the lock12:26
czranyone?12:26
sebu_czr, nope, that's the problem12:26
czrI see.12:26
X-Fade_sebu_: You can try to flash the old OS2006 image. I remember that there was a but in it that cleared the code..12:27
X-Fade_s/but/bug/12:27
infobotX-Fade_ meant: sebu_: You can try to flash the old OS2006 image. I remember that there was a bug in it that cleared the code..12:27
sebu_czr, according to wiki flashing does not reset the lock (they say some old firmware updates reset it, but i don't know which...12:27
sebu_X-Fade_, is there only one OS2006 image around?12:27
X-Fade_And did you try that?12:27
sebu_X-Fade_, i didn't try firmware updates yet for one reason: i have ssh access to the device, so i "hacked" it by replacing some binaries which block bootup / ask for the pin with dummy shell scripts :) so i can use the IT, but as soon as i reflash (and i want OS2008!) the device will be locked again12:29
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X-Fade_sebu_: Just flash 2006 before you go to 2008 ;)12:30
sebu_X-Fade_, do you know if there is only one OS2006 version?12:30
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X-Fade_sebu_: And make a backup of your fs via ssh..12:30
X-Fade_sebu_: I think so..12:30
sebu_X-Fade_, do you have any source for the information that OS2006 resets the device lock code? (if not i'm locked out and have to send my IT to finland *ouch*)12:31
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sebu_hmmm, wasn't N800 shipped with OS2007? i can't find OS2006 for N800...12:39
kulveyes it was12:40
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unique311the browser is really sweet on the 0812:42
unique311tried the facebook.12:42
unique311if you have a facebook, go with iphone.facebook.com alot of the crappy applications that people install are left out.12:43
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gla55_friggin annoying and useless those apps12:45
unique311yes12:45
tigertyou can block them12:45
gla55_but then again it's only thing that makes facebook a little unique12:45
tigertthe most common and annoying ones12:45
acydlordthe annoying facebook apps make up for all the animated gifs on myspace12:45
unique311i hate all of those addon apps12:45
gla55_i just don't browse othre peoples profiles12:45
unique311becoming myspace really fast12:45
acydlordi quit using facebook about 2 weeks after they added the apps12:46
gla55_only reason i got it to get in touch if i need with some hometown friends12:46
unique311beginning to see ads12:46
gla55_who are not in linkedin12:46
gla55_90% of the apps ARE ads12:46
sebu_did you upgrade a N800 to OS2008? was the device lock pin reset?12:47
unique311gotta expect that when something becomes very popular now.12:47
unique311device lock pin?12:47
unique311running it right now.12:47
unique311for a good hour now12:48
unique311no apps available for it.12:48
unique311but it looks really good, and i cannot stop stressing this.12:48
unique311shit12:48
czrit does look prettier :-)12:48
tigertcool :)12:49
czrunique311, using the combined image on n800?12:49
* X-Fade_ is porting maemo-mapper to chinook atm. But it is quite a bit of work..12:49
unique311combine image? wtf12:49
unique311i just followed the instructions on cnet12:49
unique311nothing special12:49
unique311new OS should be out friday or next week.  i hope.  so i took the change on this.12:50
TPCnext week?12:50
TPCon nokias website it says december12:50
unique311hopefully12:50
unique311wtf12:50
unique311lol12:50
unique311seriously12:50
unique311thats not cool12:51
TPCbut just flash over the 810 image :P12:51
tigertdecember is in 2 weeks or so anyway, right? :)12:51
czrunique311, combined fw. the one that is meant for RX-44 but says RX-34 ... COMBINED :-)12:51
unique311czr, I do not know.  I followed the instructions on cnet, and installed the OS12:52
X-Fade_I understand all your excitement, but without ported apps OS2008 isn't very usefull ;)12:52
czrunique311, URL?12:52
X-Fade_So start porting those apps please!12:52
tigertX-Fade_: no kidding12:52
Gubbespeaking of Chinook... Any idea why an osso_initialize() line that works in Bora fails in Chinook?12:53
GubbeReturns NULL12:53
unique311http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html12:53
czrGubbe, you run with run-standalone.sh?12:54
czrunique311, step 3: ..COMBINED.. :-)12:54
Gubbeczr: No. What does it do?12:54
GubbeI'm running on the device, latest RD image12:54
unique311i worked on POSe, but with Garnet VM making its debut, i don't have to do a port for os2008.12:55
unique311czr, cool12:55
X-Fade_czr: Combined as in 'bootloaders,kernel, initfs and rootfs' ;)12:55
czrGubbe, ah, then I don't know. works for me, but I'm not using latest rd12:55
czrX-Fade_, as opposed to LEGACY ;-)12:55
Gubbeczr: Right. Thanks anyway =)12:55
czrX-Fade_, any idea why they're flashing the parts separately though? in the instructions12:56
X-Fade_czr: Nope, check OS2007 for 770..12:56
X-Fade_czr: As flashing the bootloaders will brick your device perhaps? :)12:56
czrX-Fade_, ah. I see.12:56
unique311czr, that firmware was the only available firmware on the n810's page12:56
czrwell. my image has LEGACY in it anyway. don't know/don't care what it means. but it's not COMBINED :-)12:56
X-Fade_There _is_ a reason why Nokia provides a different image for N800. Be careful.12:56
czrunique311, I know12:56
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Khertanyes some custom things i think ... Like 'integrated gps panel' :)12:58
KhertanPython doesn t install12:59
Gubbeczr: Just to check, what image are you using where it does work?12:59
czrGubbe, non-public ones12:59
Khertani think all things aren t ready yet12:59
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KhertanIt s what many people say on itt13:00
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tigertwell, you can probably expect some hiccups if you shoehorn the n810 image to n80013:01
tigertif it works, neat13:01
tigertalso some stuff ight just not even work because the hw might be different13:02
TPC[11:52:17] <X-Fade_> I understand all your excitement, but without ported apps OS2008 isn't very usefull ;)13:02
TPCit has a shell and perl, what else could you possibly need? :P13:02
tigertssh of course13:03
tigertbut the bora build works13:03
KhertanPython to make application and port old one13:03
KhertanAs python seems to be broken is the wmware sdk image13:04
unique311http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=94509&postcount=1813:05
unique311check out that post13:05
unique311very smart individual.13:05
unique311figured out how to get that mac addy.13:06
X-Fade_unique311: There is a reason why they ask you for that mac address. ;)13:07
X-Fade_Stricly speaking you are commiting piracy :D13:07
TPCunique311, thanks for calling me smart :P13:07
unique311i'm committing piracy.13:07
unique311for posting the link.13:08
unique311TPC, you're welcome13:08
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unique311i hate pirates X-Fade_13:09
suihkulokkiunique311 is robbing ships? isn't that the definition of pirating? :P13:09
czrarrr13:09
unique311i think he means the internet type13:09
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TPCI can't decide if I should try OS2008 now or wait for more apps to be ported13:11
unique311X-Fade_, Honestly, more care when the pictures was being, and reviewing logs.  All this would not be going on.13:12
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unique311just find it funny.  reading the thread on ITT people share the same views X-fade, but still they are running the new os on the n800.13:15
X-Fade_unique311: Everybody is curious ;)13:16
TPCX-Fade_, also, strictly speaking he wasn't commiting piracy13:16
X-Fade_Can't blame them for it..13:16
TPCshowing someone where something can be gotten is not illegal13:17
TPConly the act of actually getting it is13:17
X-Fade_TPC: he installed it, right? :)13:17
TPCoh13:17
TPCI didn't know that :P13:17
unique311i hate pirates, but once in a while uses the bittorrent.....  ;)13:17
unique311How do you know this X-Fade_13:17
X-Fade_11:52 < unique311> czr, I do not know.  I followed the instructions on cnet, and installed the OS13:18
X-Fade_I have a backscroll, you know ;)13:18
czrX-Fade_ ?13:18
czrah. I see, nm :-)13:19
X-Fade_hehe ;)13:19
unique311My words cannot be taken seriously.13:19
X-Fade_unique311: I'm just messing with you, don't worry ;)13:20
unique311I'm 25% crazy13:20
czreven crazy people go to prison :-)13:21
unique311i speaka no engrish13:21
czrah, that's much better :-)13:21
unique311no crazy people go to the fun house, where they get lots of drugs..13:21
unique311much better than the big house, where they get lots of love13:21
czrwell, I obviously have less experience in this than you, so :-)13:21
unique311czr, you get in trouble with the law, plead crazy13:22
czrI don't get into trouble.13:22
unique311good to know type of advice.13:23
unique311especially if you don't get in trouble.13:23
unique311I got in trouble once, and i couldn't use the crazy excuse.13:24
unique311i hop the turnstile when i was 1613:24
unique311that wasn't fun.13:24
unique311$1.50 turn out to be $17513:25
unique311fine13:25
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maddlermorning all...13:37
Jaffalo maddler13:38
sebu_anyone experience about / hints for downgrading n800 to OS2006 (yes, you're reading right, not OS2008)13:38
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workingplayyahi13:39
_Monkeyhola, workingplayya13:39
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Ar-rashi13:39
workingplayyais there a GtkScaleButton in maemo13:39
Ar-rasdoes somebody got a hacked fiasco image of OS2008?13:40
workingplayyai have a not hacked one but you dont get it13:40
Ar-raslol13:41
Ar-rasworkingplayya http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810/downloads/RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin13:41
Ar-rasi have this one13:41
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workingplayyai have a other one but cant show you the url13:42
Ar-raswhats the name of the arm.bin?13:43
Ar-ras:D13:43
KhertanWitch one ?13:43
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workingplayyawe got a witch in here?13:44
timelesswhich witch is which?13:44
czrwho ate the wristwatch in the sandwidch?13:44
KhertanArf i m not english and my english is worse13:44
* timeless passes czr a spell checker13:44
czrtimeless, ignore my previous post about problem with microb+flash thingy13:44
czrsandwitch13:44
czrsandwich :-)13:44
timelessczr: scrollback?13:44
czrtimeless, yeah. just ignore it13:45
workingplayya`GtkScaleButton' undeclared (first use in this function) is it available?13:45
Ar-rassandbitch :D13:45
workingplayyamaybe in hildon libs13:45
timelessok13:45
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inzworking, GtkScaleButton first appeared in gtk 2.1213:48
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workingplayyainz cant find it in /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gtk13:50
inzworking, that's because maemo <4.0 has 2.6 and >= 4.0 has 2.1013:51
workingplayyaoh13:54
workingplayyai thougt you ment its working :D13:54
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timelessinz: your inequality is wrong on the >= side :)14:07
timelessit should be >= 2.10 ;-)14:07
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mlundeHmm, thought this link would reveal the N810: http://www.nseries.com/truestories/14:10
mlundeBut it just stopped counting down.14:10
timelesshttp://www.nseries.com/truestories/main.swf14:10
timelesshttp://www.womworld.com/nseries/wp-rss2.php?cat=51114:10
timelesshttp://widget.meebo.com/mcr.swf?id=HWEXbukIpH14:10
timelessnice page14:10
* timeless kicks nokia14:10
mlundeHmm, maybe it was just count down for the N82.14:12
mlundeBut I'm still disapointed14:12
KhertanIf you decompile the flash applet you ll see reference to n8214:14
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timelessnote that nseries != n8xx14:15
timelessnseries includes the n81 gb14:16
timelessand various other "devices"14:16
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gla55_that start with n..14:16
timelessi'd call them "multimedia computers", but currently i'm yelling at someone for ....14:16
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gla55_they call them multimedia computers14:16
gla55_they as in nokia14:16
timelessthey as in someone in marketing14:16
gla55_they made a big hassle of it.. hmm was it last year14:17
gla55_that they're no longer phones14:17
timelessbecause, when was the last time your laptop refused to connect to the ethernet cable simply because your wifi card was disabled14:17
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timelessor when was the last time your laptop refused to mute just because it wasn't connected to a network14:17
gla55_ehm14:17
timelessmy first nseries device has both of those features14:17
gla55_what n-series phone does that happen?14:17
Ar-rasis there a port of flasher-3 for windows?14:17
timelessprobably all of them14:17
gla55_i can even get wifi when in offline from gsm network14:17
timelessgla55_: try removing the sim14:17
gla55_and chance to having no sounds in offline14:18
timelessand then switching to silent mode14:18
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gla55_oh, silent mode is an online mode14:18
gla55_but my offline mode is set to silent so..14:18
rothielhi :)14:18
gla55_"silent" is just a profile name, can be changed too14:19
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timelessyeah, but you can't change to any profile w/o a sim14:19
timelesswhich is what's bothering me14:19
timelessand it refuses to automatically use the wifi in most apps14:19
timelessit'll say ~you're offline, do you really want to activate (wifi|bluetooth)~14:20
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timelessi've been using this n81 for two days w/o the sim and intend to until probably monday14:20
gla55_what you'd need would be more offline profiles, so you could have offline-silent and offline-sounds14:21
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timelessi want an offline-online profile14:21
timelessso that i can use bluetooth and wifi without being bothered14:21
timelessbut yes, for now, an offline-silent v. offline-sounds would be a start14:22
timelessbtw, can you find a "support" section for the n81/14:22
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timelessi'd like to ask why i can't activate maps using my wifi network14:22
inztimeless, it should've most likely been >= 4.0 && < 5.014:22
timelessinz: probably14:22
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timeless'course, there's no guarantee wrt what 4.1 will have14:23
timeless(if it exists!)14:23
timelesshrm14:23
timelesshas nokia broken ABI in minor releases?14:23
gla55_timeless: "support"?   i would imagine most s60 3rd ed tips/tricks/etc are the same as on any other14:23
alteregoCrap, what's the command to force a debian package to reconfigure?14:23
timelessgla: phone number that'd get me someone who will "help" or listen14:23
inztimeless, at least the packages I've built with 3.0 target have all worked on 3.214:24
gla55_timeless: hah.. no, not really.14:24
inztimeless, same goes for 2.0 and 2.214:24
timelessinz: ok :)14:24
gla55_timeless: call centers just know the stuff thats on manual...14:24
inzalterego, dpkg --force-all --configure <packagename>?14:24
alteregoinz, thanks :)14:24
inzalterego, oh sorry, reconfigure, dunno that14:24
inzalterego, dpkg-reconfigure should help you there14:25
alteregoOkay.14:25
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X-Fade_Sweet, I just managed to port maemo-mapper to chinook ;)14:30
alteregoGood job.14:33
alteregoMaemo mapper is funky.14:33
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Khertanosso-email still doesn t work more than an half day14:42
tigertX-Fade_: got a package? :)14:43
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tigertX-Fade_: yay!14:43
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X-Fadetigert: privmsg..14:45
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guardianhello14:54
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guardianstill cannot login on maemo.org :(14:55
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timelessguardian: eh?15:04
guardianregistered yesterday on garage, login on maemo.org doesn't work15:05
timelessso, i found the best way to hunt for lost devices in my apt15:06
timelesssend them files via bluetooth :)15:06
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pc_speakerSo when we'll be able to install Android based platform to our tablets?15:08
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pc_speakerAndroid makes nokia's internet table os efforts slightly obsolete IMHO...15:09
unique311heard of people asking for the web browser...you want the whole enchilada15:09
unique311you work for google pc_speaker?15:09
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pc_speakerNo I don't work for Google :)15:10
pc_speakerBut it's good idea to have only one mobile linux platform.15:11
kulvepc_speaker: I totally disagree with you :)15:11
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kulve(with the first comment)15:11
unique311google is following suit on what nokia is doing.  by the time android make its grand entrance in the game, ITos is going to be so advance.15:11
pc_speakerSo the time won't be wasted doing same things.15:11
pc_speakerBut nokia is not going to pay 10 millions to the developers :)))15:12
unique311money talks..15:12
suihkulokkipc_speaker: have you actually looked at the android? the only amazing thing is that it is attached to the google trademark.15:12
unique311you are right15:12
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unique311suihkulokki, he is right about the money15:12
milhouseunique311 - at least android already supports 3d which is more than you can say for IT OS...15:12
suihkulokki3d on android is on the roadmap, there is no 3d usage visible in what they have so far shown15:13
milhousesure there is, watch the video on youtube15:13
unique311suihkulokki, they do have 3d support already.15:14
unique311they showed the spinning globe time app15:14
suihkulokkiI'm looking at the sources. the videos could be..videos!15:14
jottand they use gl for compositing/transition effects..15:14
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jottsuihkulokki: just grab the sdk and launch the emulator ;)15:15
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suihkulokkiI did try the emulator, and was deeply unimpressed15:16
zuhI'm sure software GL rendering is available, but I doubt that will make anyone happy...15:16
unique311thats alot of money.15:16
unique31110 million is going to make alot of devs happy15:16
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jottzuh: GL support is merely a driver issue nowadays..15:17
dpb_unique311: depends how many devs they are giving that to.. 10 million devs? Wouldn't make them really happe.. ;)15:17
zuhjott: exactly15:17
dpb_happy*15:17
jottomap 2420 also has a powervr on it..15:18
unique311aots: the max is in the 6 digits15:18
zuhjott: so if your hardware has no drivers, Android will be just as useless as an 3D renderer as N800 currently is15:18
unique311attack of the show on g4tv15:18
milhousejott: yes but no driver for powervr15:19
pc_speakerI don't have anything about maemo platform but I think android can be cool on nokia tablets...15:19
milhousezuh: indeed, major snafu designing a platform with these powervr jokers on board15:19
jottyes, drivers are the major problem...and there are drivers for powervr but none are public and all are closed source..15:20
unique311dpb_, pretty sure 6 figures to develop for android would make anyone happy15:20
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unique311was it 6 or 515:20
unique311still alot15:20
milhouseupto 300K i heard15:20
suihkulokkithe 10 million is not going to help you write xterm with root prompt15:21
suihkulokkisince you are sandboxed in dalvik vm15:21
jottbtw.. what's the actual reason for nokia in not really trying to get drivers from imagination tech for the n8xx?!15:22
wumpusmoney15:22
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kulvejott: nokia hasn't made any statements about that15:22
milhousepolitics, money, crap company (imagination) - take your pick15:22
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wumpusthey said they are trying to get the drivers15:23
milhouseintel won't have such problems15:23
kulvewumpus: where?15:23
milhouse"trying"? this is Nokia not some mickey mouse outfit...15:23
wumpusI remember some nokia guy saying it in this channel, some time ago15:23
alteregoWhat is it with this android thing?15:23
wumpusbut they had problems15:23
alteregoWhy is it so great?15:23
* alterego dispairs.15:24
unique311its not, its google15:24
alteregoWho'd actually choose to program in Java ..15:24
alteregoSome people I just don't get .. :)15:24
wumpusnon-technical reasons, so yeah must be some politics or they ask exorbitant prices15:24
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lopzhola15:25
milhouseIf Nokia wanted PowerVR drivers they'd have them by now - easy answer is to tell TI to get stuffed we're not buying your chips any more unless PowerVR get a clue15:25
KhertanAndroid is just a repack of java with some library ... Nothing more15:25
milhousenot really java15:26
alteregoSure looked like Java to me.15:26
milhousenot a java vm15:26
milhouseC# looks a lot like Java15:26
alteregoSure, everyone knows that.15:26
Khertannot a java vm of course it s googlevm15:26
alteregomilhouse, it is Java. Just because it's not the standard VM doesn't mean it's not Java.15:26
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alteregoComparing that difference to Java and C# is stupid.15:27
KhertanJust a name change15:27
_berto_there are millions of java programmers out there, it's not strange that people want to make programs15:27
alterego_berto_, agreed. But who'd want to write in Java?15:27
jottall those million java programmers out there?!15:27
KhertanMillions people forced o15:27
alteregoPython, Ruby .. They're so much more powerfull.15:27
KhertanTo write java ?15:28
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_berto_I'm not saying which one is better or worse15:28
_berto_I'd just said that there are millions of java programmers15:28
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felipecJava is actually a good language to code in. The problem is the VM sometimes is not that good15:28
_berto_and most of them haven't touched a line of gtk or python in their lives15:28
_berto_those are the ones who would like to program in java, I guess15:28
felipecI guess Java in Android will run much better than Python/ruby in maemo15:29
alteregoNot really.15:29
alteregoWell, yes.15:29
alteregoBut that doesn't matter.15:29
milhouse"not really java" <--- ok it's the java language, but not a java system15:29
alteregoAnd what's "better"?15:29
alteregomilhouse, java system?15:29
_berto_it doesn't matter, you asked who would want to write in java15:29
_berto_I answered15:29
alteregomilhouse, we know it's not Suns' VM why don't you just drop it. It's Java :P15:30
milhousejava system -> java bytecode15:30
Jaffamilhouse: the Java class library's a pretty strong incentive. As is the fact that any language which compiles to bytecode (JRuby, Groovy, Jython) can also be used and then compiled to their custom bytecode.15:30
alteregoJaffa, that's something I'm quite interested in ;) Though I think I prefer xruby.15:30
milhousejaffa - sure, just thought I'd make the point it's not a fully fledged java "system" as most people might understand it...15:31
Khertan"Java will run better in android than python in maemo" ... Your re kidding ?15:31
alteregoO_o15:31
Jaffamilhouse: indeed.15:31
JaffaKhertan: I'd put money on it. A lot of money on it.15:31
JaffaPython on Maemo takes too long to start up, for one.15:32
alteregoWhat's "better"?15:32
gla55_it's not java bytecode in android15:32
KhertanStartup and after ...15:32
KhertanHave you try a jvm on an arm ? It s really slow15:32
alteregoI guess they can't take advantage of ARM Java acceleration ..15:32
KhertanSpecially in gui15:33
gla55_no use arguing about it before they bring devices15:33
alteregoI think that's based more on opinion.15:33
felipec"better" as in "apparently better from the user's perspective" as in more responsive and faster15:33
gla55_can't know how fast they are15:33
milhousealtergo: more NDA crapness regarding Jazelle, this time from ARM... :(15:33
JaffaKhertan: a) it isn't interpreting Java bytecode; b) given their system is based around Java, they'd be nuts to have it as slow as Python on Maemo. If every app on Maemo was written in Python, the interpreter load time problem would be fixed fairly quickly.15:34
suihkulokkiso all of you guys are ready to give up r00t for a java-incompatible java-like vm ?15:34
alteregoAre you sure it's the interpreter load time?15:34
gla55_android so far seems just like savaje on crack15:34
* Jaffa will use whatever device allows him the most flexibility, whilst providing the features I want, in a rich and powerfuld evelopment environment.15:34
gla55_= boring15:34
alteregosuihkulokki, not me. I don't like that idea at all.15:34
milhouseI'm with Jaffa15:35
gla55_what matters is what kind of devices it will come out on and whats allowed on those devices..15:35
Jaffagla55_: a good point, but Google's ploughing money into it, so it's worth watching.15:35
Jaffagla55_: exactly.15:35
gla55_jaffa: yeah worth watching like the other linux for mobile phones alliances15:35
alteregoI'm more interested in making Maemo the best :)15:35
milhouseAlso... write once run anywhere...15:35
milhouseARM... x86...15:35
gla55_jaffa: and it's fast enough to switch deving for it if they get enough marketshare that they matter15:35
Jaffagla55_: worth watching slightly more because of Google, but not much more - I grant you.15:35
Jaffagla55_: agreed.15:36
felipecindeed, and I bet Google can put some millions here and there to make an efficient Java VM, but I agree, only when the devices are out we will see15:36
alteregoI doubt they'll be short of devs ..15:36
vegailua would make more sense than python anyway. It's meant for small devices more than python.15:36
alteregoThey've done some impressive stuff already. Why don't we see if we can make Maemo more competitive.15:36
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JaffaOut of all the Linux for mobile initiatives, I reckon Google's got the best chance, since they like tooling and they've got the brand and wallets. Maemo/UME are fine for tablet-style devices; I'll be surprised if OpenMoko's anything more than a niche running on just their phones15:37
alteregoAnd we have great hardware now ..15:37
gla55_well, if they're really as open as they say, port the androids vm thing to maemo.. that runs their fancy bytecode15:37
alteregoNot just the VM though is it .. It's all the services and API's too.15:38
milhousealterego - do we?! still the same cruddy N800 video hardware in the N810...15:38
milhousedodgey touchscreen...15:38
* Jaffa 's commitment to Maemo lasts as long as the device does what he wants, can be customised to do what he wants, and gets bribed with cheap devices.15:38
milhousenaff all 3d support15:38
alteregoAll of which I can live without happily ..15:38
unique311cheap shot15:38
alteregoThe tablets will be great.15:38
milhousethe touchscreen is beginning to annoy me15:38
alteregoWe're still only in the second generation ..15:39
JaffaI thought we're at step 3 now?15:39
alteregoStill in the research and development phase really.15:39
milhousetrue, but it's tough to call the hardware "great"15:39
felipecalso the fact that so many big industry players are behind Andriod makes me think it won't be crappy15:39
alteregoJaffa, N800 and N810 are so similar ..15:39
felipechttp://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html15:39
milhouse"good" yes, but not great - it needs to improve15:39
alteregoI think it's great.15:39
alteregoBut it's a matter of opinion.15:39
Jaffaalterego: I'm quoting a Nokia exec, there.15:39
jottit still needs 3d drivers ;)15:39
alteregoWhy does it _need_ it?15:40
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jottto make use of it?!15:40
alteregoAnd why doesn't someone dev some OSS drivers :P15:40
JaffaI think the hardware's pretty fab. But the Eee is now undercutting the tablet and is more functional; the iPhone's raised the software game. OS2008 and the N810 look good, and I'm sure *I*'ll enjoy them; but larger market => more devs => more apps => more useful.15:40
jottalterego: oss drivers would be even better, thats for sure ;)15:40
Jaffaalterego: If we haven't yet got 3D OSS drivers for NVIDIA cards, why on earth would we have them for some niche little TI chip?15:41
JaffaNot many Linux hackers working on OMAP, compared with nouveau15:41
jottJaffa: well that's a matter of specs.. :/15:41
alteregoThere are OSS nVidia drivers ..15:41
gla55_i don't really care if it would be oss drivers or not15:41
gla55_just that nokia would make it happen15:41
lardmanpowervr?15:41
Jaffaalterego: They just do 2D on a limited subset of cards. There's very little 3D support beyond *sometimes* running glgears15:41
alterego:)15:42
alteregoIf I knew how to develop PowerVR drivers for the OMAP I would.15:42
wumpusJaffa: at least people are working on them15:42
X-FadeIt seems that pepperpad had drivers for linux 2.6 for the powervr chip. So it shouldn't be terribly hard to get them?15:42
alteregoBut I don't so I'm not going to :)15:42
Jaffawumpus: indeed.15:42
alteregoX-Fade, the drivers are free but they don't work with Maemo binaries.15:42
alteregoIt's binary incompatible ..15:43
lardmanhave you tried?15:43
X-Fadealterego: Sure, but they are not a big company :)15:43
alteregoAnyhow, I need a shower.15:43
wumpusX-Fade: it's not for the right architecture afaik15:43
lardmanis it possible to use kernel drivers from a different version kernel?15:43
JaffaIt's going to be easier to decompile them, and reassemble them than it is to write OSS drivers from scratch.15:43
lardmanah, ok15:43
alteregoJaffa, yeah. That thought crossed my mind several times ..15:43
X-Fadehttp://updates.pepper.com/pub/pepperpad/sources/pepperpad2/3.0.3/pvrdrv.ko.tar15:44
X-Fadevermagic: 2.6.13.4 preempt ARMv5 gcc-3.415:44
wumpuswell if it's only for one graphics chip, writing drivers isn't that teriibly hard, the hard part of nouveau and other open source drivers is having to supports zillions of cards15:44
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Jaffawumpus: that's true15:45
jottand the drivers would only need to support the opengl es subset ;)15:45
X-FadeMy guess is that the powervr is seriously underpowerd for our screensize. And maybe has the same bus issues as movies have?15:45
wumpusbut you'd still need to know what commands to send to the chip.. or even where to send the commands at all15:45
wumpusyes, it has the same bus issues15:45
wumpusit'd only speed up rendering to a memory buffer, not sending it through the slow pipe to the LCD15:46
X-FadeAnd is designed for 320x240 orso :)15:46
JaffaI've not looked at the architecture diagram recently, but the problem with the video bandwidth is getting frames from the CPU to the LCD controller. That problem would exist whether the ARM core's doing it or the PowerVR bit of the chip15:46
Jaffa...i.e. what wumpus said15:46
wumpusindeed Jaffa15:46
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JaffaStill, 320x240 fastly rendered 3D would be better than none ;-)15:46
X-FadeJaffa: Sure ;)15:46
wumpusif it's faster than software rendering it'd already be great15:47
X-FadeHaving some nice clutter stuff on opengl es would be nice..15:47
* timeless rotfl15:47
timelessi'm in trouble15:47
timelessi just corrupted my coworker's new phone15:47
timelessit's an n81 8gb15:47
timelessexcept, i managed to corrupt the 8gb part15:47
inzand you're laughing, because?15:47
timelessso now he just has a very unuseful device15:48
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timelesswell, the bad part is that i'm sharing a cabin with him tonight15:48
SpakmanI'm writing a Ruby hildon app which creates and draws a lot of pixmaps from pixbufs. I'm finding that the X memory usage escalates quickly even though my objects are out of scope. Does anyone know how to free/destroy the pixmaps in the X server?15:48
lardmanhttps://focus-webapps.ti.com/general/docs/event/eventresultsaction.tsp?actionId=264 is another option for the kernel driver15:48
lardman2.6.1015:48
timelessmy coworker asks if the same people who developed the mmc support for the n800/n810 are responsible for the n81 8gb :)15:48
timelessso at least he has a sense of humor :)15:48
timelessoh, that's better, i also broke the reporting app15:49
milhousehaving 3D OpenGL support on the Nx0, crappy video bandwidth or not, would be a good proving ground for the Step 4 device (N900?) that almost certainly wouldn't (fingers crossed) have crap video bandwidth.15:49
tigertstay away from my N81 :D15:49
wumpuslardman: but does it include the powervr driver?15:49
lardmanyes15:49
jottlardman: yeah but thats omap2430 :/15:50
lardmantrue, the 2420 link says to grab the 2430 sdk...15:50
jottwell if they wrote a generic driver it could be worth a try..15:50
lardmanwhat does a fillrate of over 300 million pixels/s give in terms of resolution vs framerate15:51
TPCI'm making a backup of my N800 to reflash for the first time15:51
* lardman looks for a calc15:51
TPCI copied the home dir, did a backup with the internal backup program, and saved copied dpkg --get-selections15:51
lardmanhttp://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/Products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp?Page=415:51
TPCdid I miss something?15:51
wumpussome time ago I tried various things to load that kernel module, but it stubbornly refused any try :)15:51
unique311TPC, are you going with 08?15:52
TPCunique311, yes15:52
lardmanwumpus: it's big too, ~1MB!15:52
wumpusthere should be an option somewhere for linux to ignore the version info, but haven't found it15:52
wumpusyep, very big, that kind of makes reverse engineering out of the question too15:53
pc_speakerhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11693&page=415:53
lardmanI was thinking of creating a gpe-image with the correct kernel version, etc. to see if it would work15:53
pc_speakerI hope everyone already flahed os2008 to their n800? :)15:53
lardmanRight, in terms of fillrate, the powervr mbx should manage ~975fps15:53
wumpusit's bigger than the nvidia driver for x86, it probably includes an entire opengl implementation... maybe this 'powervr' is a few instructions to speed up 3d, like 3dnow, and not a real hardware renderer15:54
lardmanit is real hw, http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/Products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp?Page=115:54
gla55_it's more than just instructions thats for sure15:55
lardmanbut yes, most of the opengl stuff may be in that module15:55
gla55_you can see the hw in action in n95 and e9015:55
milhouseisn't powervr based on rendering "tiles"?15:55
gla55_yeah15:55
gla55_some stuff like that15:55
wumpusI just don't see how a hardware accelerated opengl es driver tailored to a single chip should be that big15:56
lardmanhasn't the pepperpad got a different powervr chip type?15:56
gla55_isn't pepperpad geode based?15:56
Spakmanalterego: are you around?15:56
wumpusthe new one is, the old one was arm based I think15:57
lardmanit has powervr mbx lite rather than our mbx15:57
* lardman wonders how large the 2.4.x driver is from Ti?15:58
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jottwell if you strip the 1mb module its down to 63kb ;)15:59
lardmanah-ha15:59
wumpusare you sure you can strip kernel modules safely?15:59
wumpusthat'd be fun, because it means they include 900kb of debug symbols16:00
lardmanwould make life easier at least16:00
jottmakes the objdump -d output nice ;)16:00
wumpusindeed16:00
jott14988 lines of objdump asm code ;)16:01
lardmanis their opengl implementation also unstripped?16:01
wumpusbut yeah someone should try loading the module first, even if you patch the version info using a hex editor :P16:01
* lardman is using WinXP atm so can't look16:01
jottmh i suppose the sdk might contain debug symbols - would make sense at least ;)16:02
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lardmanprobably get symbols errors though16:02
unique311so you get the chip working, what next?16:02
wumpusthe kernel interface usually is quite stable between releases16:02
lardmanopengl is the next step16:03
wumpuswell if it at least recognizes the chip then you are sure the driver works, which would be a very nice start16:03
* jott still needs a real device :(16:04
* jott pokes nokia so they finally release the n81016:04
wumpusalthough modern graphics drivers usually just map the device to user space, and let the opengl lib handle the rest16:05
jottbut it's still funny to release a module with full debug symbols for an embedded device :)16:06
wumpusyeah16:06
lardmanwell it is for the devel toolchain16:06
wumpusalthough the debug symbols are not loaded into memory16:06
jottah ok..16:06
TPChm.. now I'm running 200816:07
TPCthe UI certainly feels alot faster16:07
lardmanhmm, the omap2430 also has the mbx lite16:07
TPCthere are fewer steps for the backlight16:07
unique311feels link a new device don't it?16:08
unique311check out the youtube TPC16:09
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lardmanmbx lite loses fsaa16:09
wumpusthey're probably at least compatible16:10
FunkyPenguinafternoon all, bit of a contentious question here - what is the better pim suite for the n800 pimlico or gpe?16:10
wumpusor share parts of the command set16:10
jottthis TI OMAP sdks are insane.. .zip -> .exe (wtf?! wine to the rescue) ->  .zip -> phew!16:10
FunkyPenguinideally i would like to have the tablet as the canonical repository and both phone and laptop sync to it16:11
lardmantry the 2.4.x version (I think) ~55Mb self-extracting shell script :)16:11
wumpushehe16:11
lardmanhow legal is reverse engineering?16:11
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jottbut why the hell one packages an exe with zip and this exe is just an installer that has another zip in it!?16:11
wumpusdepends on where you live16:11
jottlardman: here it is legal to ensure interoperability (ianal)16:12
wumpusI don't think it's a good idea to talk about it in public16:12
lardmanJust wondering in general terms16:12
wumpusintercepting rendering commands to the hardware is legal though, so that's usually how os drivers are developed, not by disassembly16:13
X-Fadelardman: Just do a clean reimplementation.. reverse engineer and write a description. Someone else needs to write a driver based on the description.16:13
jottbut in the end its a matter of jurisdiction..16:13
lardmanX-Fade: Is that legal though? For the person who does the reverse engineering?16:13
X-FadeWell, 'just' ;)16:13
X-Fadelardman: As long as that is legal in your country..16:13
lardmanwumpus: yes, intercepting the commands would be reasonable16:14
lardmanlol, round in circles16:14
X-Fadelardman: Everone not in the US, should be a lot more safe..16:14
wumpusanyway, if you do use disassembly, don't tell anyone16:14
lardmanwumpus: in which case I wonder if the kernel driver could be wrapped and the wrapper used to link in, no problems with kernel version then16:15
X-FadeBut if they wrote an opensource driver, that is a lot easier ;)16:15
lardmanthey won't16:15
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wumpuslardman: yes, probably, but then we'll have to find out to wrap which symbols16:15
timelessok, after a couple of reboots it no longer things the 8gb is corrupt ...16:15
lardmanwumpus: intercepting the commands will be as bad though16:16
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wumpuswell before we can intercept commands we need to have a working driver16:16
wumpusso it's really not the way in this case16:16
wumpuswrapping is indeed the best16:16
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jottand if we had a working driver many people would be more or less satisfied ;)16:17
wumpusthe most trivial brute force way to find out is overriding the version info in the 2.6.10 release, then see where loading goes wrong16:17
wumpusunless the abi and  not the name of some kernel call changed and it just crashes, but yeah16:18
wumpusyou'd have to dump which kernel symbols it uses and which ones changed between that kernel and the current16:18
wumpusluckily, the kernel IS open source :P16:19
wumpusanother problem coudl be the binary format -- is it compiled for the same ARM ?16:19
lardmanno idea16:19
wumpusI suppose so if it's omap16:19
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lardmanjott: you got the file in front of you?16:20
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lardmanwumpus: arm vs armel you mean?16:20
wumpusjott: yes, if we can at least demonstrate it working then we can start thinking about making open drivers16:21
wumpusbut personally I'd be satisfied with 'working' too16:21
wumpuslardman: yes16:21
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jottmh the sdk even contains a libX11.so .. is this a patched version?16:22
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alteregoSpakman, I'm back.16:23
lardmanjott: I thought not (no reason though) as I think it's just so you can install the whole lot on your dev board and get working straight away16:23
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wumpusI don't think libX11 is patched16:23
wumpusit's not something you usually change for a graphics driver16:23
wumpusand this one doesn't even talk to a graphics card16:24
timeless*arg*16:24
timelessstupid16:24
timelesspodcasting was downloading to internal memory16:24
jottyeah you are probably right.. but who knows what ti does :)16:24
lardmanI can't see any handy ascii strings with 2.6.10 in them16:24
TPCstupid things taking up space16:25
wumpusheh, maybe it'd be possible to change the insmod source to just not check :)16:25
lardmantrue16:26
TPCI might have to get myself a 16GB SDHC card16:26
wumpusdoes that work in the device at all TPC ?16:26
* timeless rotfl16:27
TPCwumpus, from what I've heard yes16:27
timeless"Download limit exceeded"16:27
alteregoIt's not TI. It's imgtec16:27
lardmanjott: can you see what version of libc they link against?16:27
alteregoTPC, that wont work in the tablet.16:27
wumpuslardman: at least libc version is no problem with the kernel module, might be for the GL lib though16:27
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Ar-rasYEAH16:27
Ar-rasIT OS 2008 on N80016:28
X-Fade*sigh* :)16:28
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lardmanwumpus: did you use insmod -f and it still failed?16:28
X-Fadelardman: You'd need the regular insmod first. This one is busybox.16:29
lardmanah, good point16:29
X-FadeI've tried it with the pepperpad one, a long time ago..16:29
* alterego wonders how hard it is to port 2.4 modules to 2.616:30
TPC[15:27:21] <alterego> TPC, that wont work in the tablet.16:30
TPCdid you just read that in the specs, or have you actually tried it?16:30
alteregoTPC, 16G carc16:30
wumpuslardman: yes, I tried, didn't work16:30
TPCI read somewhere someone who said that it works, altoguht nokia doesn't support it16:30
wumpusX-Fade: that might be the reason16:30
X-Fadewumpus: Yeah, it doesn't allow forcing..16:30
alteregoTPC, well. You're welcome to risk losing whatever information you store on there and the card. If you want ..16:31
lardmanthat means the symbols don't match then16:31
wumpusif the symbols don't match it should give a nice list16:31
wumpusit didn't16:31
wumpusit just failed.. so it's the busybox thing16:31
TPCalterego, I keep backups of everything16:31
lardmanah, well that's good news, perhaps16:31
X-Fadealterego: Probably just a driver issue. No real hardware reason why it shouldn't work.16:31
alteregoTPC, what about the cash you waste when it busts the card?16:32
Takwhy wouldn't a 16G card work in the tablet?  Do they just keep bumping some hard limit every time a bigger card comes out?16:32
TPCwhy would it do that?16:32
alteregoTPC, why wouldn't it?16:32
alteregoYou don't know :P16:32
alteregoIs it worth the risk?16:32
wumpusTak: maybe a slightly different protocol, for every doubling of the capacity they need to hide an addressing bit somewhere: P16:32
X-Fadealterego: Sure, that is what warranty is for..16:32
alteregoNot really ..16:33
alteregoIt's not a dud. You'd be sending back something you broke.16:33
wumpusyeah if it doesn't work you can send it back I guess16:33
X-FadeNot work != Should kill..16:33
alteregoThat's not worthy of a replacement16:33
wumpusyou won't *break* it16:33
wumpusit'll just work or not work16:33
wumpusif it doesn't work it will still perfectly work in some device that does support them16:33
Ar-raslol16:34
Ar-rasSkype dont wants to be installed on OS 2008#16:34
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TPCAr-ras, skype for 2008 isn't out yet16:34
TakI thought the SDHC spec supported up to 16G without hackery; it was just a matter of cramming the storage into the space?16:34
Ar-ras:) I see ;)16:34
X-FadeAr-ras: You didn't read the message..16:34
Ar-rasI read the message ;)16:34
milhouseTak: 32GB is the limit for SDHC16:35
Ar-rasit is just stupid, to put Skype into "startmenu", if it isnt already installed :O16:35
wumpusthen again, I don't have a clue how SDHC is implemented, if it allows for 16GB it's worth a try I'd say16:35
KevinVermaTPC, the older skype does not run on os2008  ?16:36
Takso...I'd think any driver implementation should support 32G without having to rehack it all the damn time16:36
alteregoYah16:36
X-FadeKevinVerma: 2008 is incompatible with 2007.16:37
alteregoKevinVerma, 2007 software is not binary conmpatible with 200816:37
milhouseTak: yes, supporting the spec would be the smart thing to do16:37
gla55_tak: nokia doesn't live by that logic on symbian16:37
* alterego looks at driver source.16:37
wumpusTak: it could still be a crappy interface chip16:37
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milhousegla55_ Fortunately Nokia didn't write the SDHC support in Linux (though they may have meddled with it...)16:38
gla55_nice then16:38
unique311notice when i run mpalyer in fullscreen mode, and minimize it the the screen looks like its running at a different resolution.16:38
wumpusunique311: pixel doubling16:38
unique311k16:38
unique311so its running at the same res16:39
alteregothe imgtec drivers hack X1116:39
alteregoSpecifically X11 DRM ..16:39
unique311its a hack?16:39
wumpusthey don't just use a loadable X11 module?16:39
alteregoDoesn't look like it.16:40
AtariiWTT nokia 770 for 800/810 :(16:40
alteregoLooks like they've copied and modified some X11 code ..16:40
* Tak remains annoyed16:40
lardmanwhat is the hack?16:40
alteregoLooking now.16:40
KevinVermaX-Fade, alterego good to know in time, thanks16:40
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lardmananyone fancy compiling module-init-tools?16:40
KevinVermaskype is critical for me, i'll have to wait to update16:40
unique311gizmo16:40
unique311does the same thing16:41
KevinVermabut my peers are not able to use gizmo16:41
KevinVermathey got a belkin phone16:41
lardmanbbiab16:41
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KevinVermai'll love to know if gizmo folks want to hack it16:41
KevinVermait runs linux16:41
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unique311wumpus, was wondering if that pixel doubling could be used by the guys at access16:43
unique311for the garnet vm16:43
alteregoThere are loads of changes they made.16:43
alteregoDon't really know what any of it does though :)16:43
fysawhy wouldn't it work with 32GB?16:44
fysaeven if it didn't now, it would just be a firmware update.16:45
alteregoYou think ..16:45
wumpusunique311: sure, it's just something that you can enable16:45
unique311k16:46
unique311remember the devs telling me that the screen res for the emulator was hardcoded in the roms.  Can't really do anything to the emulator to get the screen size bigger.16:47
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wumpusyeah you'd need some form of scaling at least16:48
unique311leave them a note on the feedback page.16:49
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alteregoInteresting intel release source code for their graphics drivers and they have a chipset based on the power vr mbx ..16:50
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sxpert-workstill waiting for the  docs to their wifi stuff16:51
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alteregoIt'd be nice if Nokia actually told us what is going on with the graphics drivers.16:52
alteregoAll we've had is "no comment" ..16:52
wumpusyeah, it's usually useless to try to get *any* info out of a company at all16:53
alteregoI just don't see why they can't tell us. It's silly :/16:53
alteregoIf we're going to have them .. Tell us and we'll stop complaining. If we're not going to have them, tell us and we'll stop complaining.16:54
alteregoIt's pretty simple ..16:54
X-FadeMaybe it would be a good thing to mention again on -developers?16:54
solmumahathey like to surprise us16:55
alterego"BOO!"16:55
alteregoI'd like to here that soon ;)16:55
wumpusbut if they say it's not going to be there it might put off people from their product, if they say they are going to have it then we made a promise and we'll compain even more 'when is it done when is it done?' :)16:55
alteregoThat's rubbish.16:56
TakWhen is it done?16:56
alteregoIt not having 3D doesn't effect peoples purchasing choice now. Why would it in the future if nothing changes?16:56
wumpusI think it's their reasoning, it's usually what companies do before deciding to not say anything at all16:56
alteregoNeah,16:56
alteregoNokia are just very quiet.16:56
alteregoEverything is kept from us :P16:57
Ar-rasonly 3 programms for IT OS 2008??16:57
alteregoIt's not even out Ar-ras I'd say that's good :P16:57
Ar-raslol16:57
X-FadeAr-ras: Better start porting things to Chinook. We're all waiting for you to do that.. ;)16:58
milhouseone good thing about OS2008 leaking it gives people a few weeks to fine tune their applications to the new platform :)16:58
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solmumahai'm glad they postponed the release16:59
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* lardman reads backlog17:07
lardmanNokia have hinted that they have worked on the powervr though17:08
Ar-raspowervr?17:08
Ar-rasWhats that?17:08
lardman_Monkey: what's the PowerVR MBX?17:08
_Monkeybugger all, i dunno, lardman17:08
Jaffalardman: they have?17:08
lardmanuseless!17:08
lardmanJaffa: yes17:08
lardmanit would take quite some digging to find the particular irc conversation though I think17:09
alteregoOh nice, I _can_ detect when head phones are inserted.17:09
lardman~google powervr17:09
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lardmanAr-ras: http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/Products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp17:10
lardmanuseless bots17:10
lardman;)17:10
Takyeah, monitor /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/headphone/state (N800) or /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/headphone/connection_switch (770)17:10
lardmanalterego: did you say what the x11 hack was?17:10
alteregolardman, no. There are numerous hacks.17:11
revahoy! i just upgraded my N800 to te newer OS 2007... and i can't remember where the hell i found a package i had before. any ideas? it's a game pack, one pkg for maybe 10-20 games, (graphically) very simple games, called something like "tom's game pack"17:11
inzrev, sgtpuzzles17:11
alteregoProbably not really essential. I'm sure if Nokia are working on drivers they'll have it all sorted :P17:11
lardmanalterego: ok17:12
revinz: thanks! that was driving me nuts last night when i wanted to play some of that network/pipe game! :D17:12
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inzrev, http://maemo-hackers.org/sgt-puzzles.install17:12
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lardmanperhaps we should publicise http://www.imgtec.com/Downloads/DocumentDownloads/Demos/Index.asp and ask why we can't produce graphics like this :)17:13
alteregoOr play Quake 317:13
* alterego chuckles.17:13
revinz: rad, i appreciate it! i don't think i have that rep added, i was cornfused as to why i couldn't find it in my avail pkg list, as i thought it was just in the maemo non-free or something. well, mystery solved!17:13
guardiananyone tried OS2008 ?17:13
lardmanalterego: don't joke, shame we can't17:14
revguardian: is it out yet?17:14
revi just upgraded to the newer OS2007 last night, saw that OS2008 would be released, but it hadn't yet... ha!17:14
alteregoQuake 3 wouldn't run on the device PowerVR drivers or not.17:14
guardiansome friend's messenging me about a leak, but i did not really read the dev list this week :)17:14
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lardmanalterego: why not?17:15
lardmanalterego: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/11/11/q3ce_powervr/17:15
alteregolardman, CPU17:15
revso, does OS2008 drop opera for mozilla?17:15
revi'm sure this is all old news, but i'll just go a-readin instead of asking :P17:15
lardmanhow quick is the axim then? 600mhz?17:15
alteregoYou really think the little ARM in the tablet is powerfull enough for Q3?17:15
revyeah, 624 mhz17:15
lardmanyeah, I reckon it is17:16
revthe nokia's are pretty underpowered compared to the axim17:16
lardmanwith dsp for the sound17:16
revfor the apps i've used on both17:16
revi don't know about the N810, if it's seen some huge boost in CPU MIPS/MHz17:16
lardmanwould be pretty cool though :)17:16
milhouserev - different ARM revisions aren't they? The Axim uses the (quite old) Intel/Marvel StrongARM which is a generation before the OMAP242017:16
Atariiyea then get ut3 to work :p17:17
guardianbut there is no 3d accel on the tablets17:17
milhouserev - so comparing CPUs on speed alone isn't possible17:17
revmilhouse: they are different revisions, but the Axim's CPU beats out the 770 and N800's quite a bit17:17
lardmanSA, sure it's not an XScale?17:17
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revmilhouse: in my case, i'm comparing performance on a specific app17:17
milhouselardman: one of the two :)17:17
lardmanmilhouse: old anyway :)17:17
milhousepositively prehistoric!17:18
revmilhouse: i can't remember the numbers, but it is a 2-4x difference in CPU crunchage and a similar amount in 2D gfx (mind you, not what is to be used)17:18
revit's an XScale, can't remember the #17:18
rev25517:18
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milhousei think the XScale/SA processors have SSE extensions which might help certain applications, whereas the OMAP cpus have power optimisations and can execute general instructions more efficiently than the Intel processors... swings and roundabouts probably17:19
lardmanis insmod stand-alone? Or do I need to install all of the new module-init-tools?17:19
lardmanmilhouse: the omaps also have the sse instructions17:19
lardmanthey are just an arm11 chip afterall17:19
milhouselardman: thanks, didn't know that17:20
revi don't see how the N800 could be faster on a per-MHz basis than a P3, though17:20
revas the N800 is lacking an FPU17:20
lardmanthere are also some new instructions, called dsp instructions, do parallel bits and bobs17:20
milhouseI've got a 400Mhz P3 in an IBM laptop17:20
lardmann800 has an fpu17:20
revand a P3 at 320 MHz didn't play Q3 so well17:20
revit does?17:20
lardmanyes17:20
reva dsp or an FPU?17:20
lardmanvfp17:20
lardmanboth17:20
guardianare there rumors about a 3d driver for the N800?17:21
lardmandsp is fixed point17:21
guardianor nothing at all ?17:21
revvfp = virtual? software fp?17:21
lardmanvector floating point17:21
milhousethe N800 has an fpu, of sorts doesn't it? i'm sure it supports hardware floating point17:21
* rev nods17:21
milhouseunlike the 77017:21
lardmanyes17:21
lardmanguardian: I wasn't here when the conversation started, I think it was just from a moan along the lines of "still no powervr support"17:22
milhouse400Mhz CISC vs 400Mhz RISC, a tricky (if impossible) comparison :)17:22
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guardianlardman: thx17:23
revmilhouse: for sure, but in the case of the N800 I know that, overall, any of these ARMs do a lot less on a per mhz basis, just doing some simple head math17:23
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lardmaneven if it shouldn't work, as the N800 is 2/3 the speed of the axim and could offload music playing to the dsp, it would be worth a shot17:24
revbut then again, if Q3ce can do 25 FPS on an axim, which is pretty impressive, perhaps a similar feat could occur on the N800, though without the 3d accel the axim has i'm not sure what kind of FPS you'd get17:24
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revguardian: when you say 3d drivers do you mean for some unutilized hardware the N800 has?17:26
guardianyes17:26
lardmanrev: that's what we're talking about, the powervr mbx17:26
guardianin fact i never search enough for the reason why there is a 3d chip but no driver to use it17:27
revlardman: on the OMAP? hrmm... interesting! well, then i'd vote: yeah, it could do it!17:27
lardmanyep17:27
revguardian: you see that a lot, lots of CE devices did the same thing before they started utilizing it17:28
X-FadeIVA support would also be nice.17:28
guardianrev: tradition is not a good reason :D17:28
lardmanyes, an added bonus17:28
X-Fadehttp://lkml.org/lkml/2007/4/16/277 Check the mail addies..17:28
lardmanX-Fade: shame there's very little public info about the IVA17:28
revguardian: they'd use it as a selling point, but then find out that there wasn't even some simple drivers written by the manufacturer to speed up 2d perf, let alone provide a real 3d api17:28
lardmandaniels was talking about it the other day though17:28
revguardian: oh, i agree :)17:28
X-Fadelardman: Indeed. Can be a really powerful feature..17:29
zoranwhat would be power consumption?17:29
lardmanthat I don't know, would need to test and see17:29
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lardmanbut presumably optimised hw accel would use less power than doing it for longer on the ARM17:29
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lardmanwhat I'd like is an omap 2420 technical reference manual17:31
lardmanstrange that the dsp has lots of info available, source code etc., but the IVA next to nothing. It's supposed to be similar17:31
X-Fadelardman: Check recent omap kernels. There seems to be a lot more suport now.17:32
kriebelnot to change the subject (I'm really enjoying this), but I need help connecting a bluetooth keyboard to my 77017:32
* rev shakes fist17:32
* Tak waits for rev to roll dice17:32
lardmanX-Fade: yes I saw some bits, but one still needs a "dsp kernel" to run on it afaik17:32
Ar-raswill be IT OS 2008 hacked on N770?17:32
* rev sez "poof!" and shows that the dice have ... disappeared!17:32
* Tak head explodes17:33
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lardmanAr-ras: I think I remember reading somewhere that there would be a hackers edition too17:33
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TakAr-ras: yeah, they've been saying there will be17:33
kriebel...specifically the new Apple keyboard17:33
sciboyBwahaha, N800 firmware update time!17:33
revsciboy: for 2008?17:34
lardmanthe only worry I have with the "update" is battery charging, or are the two batteries the same mAh?17:34
sciboyMay the gods of flashing internal memory shine their light upon me and deliver me from the evil of bricking17:34
sciboyrev, Yep.17:34
revit's a shame that the N810 is still on 400 MHz and the CE machines topped out at 624 MHz (more recent ones 520 MHz)... intel was promising a 1 GHz StrongARM back in 1999 that i was oh-so excited to put into my newton 2100... pah!17:34
lardmanhow long do their batteries last though?17:35
revsciboy: legit, or like sharing between friends?17:35
zoran30 secs?17:35
lardmanrev take a look at itt17:35
lardmanzoran: :)17:35
sciboyrev, Haven't you been to the forums?17:35
Ar-rassciboy do you have linux pcß17:35
revah, taken from the N810?17:35
sciboyrev, And no it isn't legit.17:35
lardmanfrom the download site17:35
sciboyAr-ras, Debian.17:35
revsciboy: no, i'm pretty much disconnected other than asking the questions already answered in here. :) i just finally upgraded to the newer OS2007 to fix my mangled browser, i'll enjoy it for a few days17:36
florianrev: Well... an ARM11 core is something different then an ARM7 :-)17:36
florianThe performance of the 400MHz Omap is really good.17:36
revflorian: i know, just a psychological thing17:36
florianrev: well... I can live with facts ;-)17:36
Ar-rassciboy -> QRY17:37
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johnxWRT, the XScale vs OMAP debate, it seems like the 320MHz CPU in the N800 is much faster than the 416MHz XScale PXA27017:39
revyeah, i can see that17:39
johnxI'm not sure but I thought I remember hearing that it had something to do with Intel just lengthening the pipeline to boost the clock speed17:40
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revalso, my numbers were a little foofy, went and looked at them, and the 2-4x was for the 220 MHz 770 vs my 624 MHz Axim, not for the newer OMAP in the N80017:40
lardmanthere were some nbench figures on the openmoko list17:40
lardmanhttp://hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Application_Processor_Benchmarks17:41
lardmanI added the 770 and n800 (@330MHz)17:41
johnxlardman, very cool17:42
lardmanvfp kicks ass, big time17:42
revawesome17:42
revdoes it require linking to some lib and use of its api to use it?17:43
lardmanthe n800 results are with a statically compiled libm using vfp, the normal one doesn't use it17:43
* sciboy whistles as he waits for the firmware to download, and checks the progress of his blender render.17:43
revnot to say that you wouldn't do that for porting q3, but just curious if it uses it by default in the base math libs17:43
lardmanrev: e.g. http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/15646?page=last17:43
lardmanmaemo isn't compiled with it enabled though, hence needing to statically link against a vfp libm17:44
lardmanrev: so you need CFLAGS=CXXFLAG=-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp17:45
alteregoWhat's this about people pinching MAC's for N810 preview devices and downloading OS2008?17:45
lardmans/CXXFLAG/CXXFLAGS17:45
revlardman: ah ok, definately not a hassle then17:46
* rev wonders if squeak would benefit from such a treatment, probably not17:46
lardmanno, not a problem at all, just be careful with the other possible flag (-mcpu=arm1136j-s) as qemu can't run this code17:47
sciboyalterego, Forums know all17:47
alterego:/17:48
sciboySpeaking of which my firmware download just finished!17:48
alterego2008?17:48
_Monkey2008 is the year of the open handheld/phone17:48
sciboyYes17:48
florianyes :)17:48
alteregoDo you have an N810?17:48
sciboyNope17:48
alteregoIs it out?17:48
Takalso, if you're going to compile with vfp stuff, be kind to 2007HE users and compile a version without as well ;-)17:48
sciboyNope17:48
zoranwhat do you expect from 2008?17:49
alteregoO_o17:49
sciboyA slight speed boost and the ability to use the browser.17:49
alteregoSo you're being a naughty boy ..17:49
sciboyYep17:49
lardmanTak: good point17:49
alteregoWell, I wont ask where you got the MAC from :P17:49
sciboyWho said I needed a MAC?17:50
alteregoYou don't?17:50
sciboyAnd most people got it from a photo on engadget of the n81017:50
alteregoHah17:50
alteregoI wonder if Nokia mind ..17:50
alteregoIf they don't .. I'll have a hunt for it.17:51
sciboyWe'll find out soon enough17:51
alteregoHah17:51
alteregoWhen you activate the auto_brick christmas coal?17:51
sciboyIt's in the ITT forums, under the OS2008 area17:51
alterego(pun on easter egg)17:51
sciboyThere's two threads, one has a rather obvious title17:51
alteregoI think I'll wait for the official release.17:51
sciboyMay the gods of flashing internal memory shine their light upon me and deliver me from the evil of bricking17:51
alteregoThe kernel looks like it's built for both devices.17:52
zoranbrowser issue means something special?17:52
alteregoSo everything should work.17:52
milhousehmmm... are nokia having a laugh with the first image in the Images app? :)17:52
milhouse(on OS2008)17:52
sciboyalterego, There's a few device specific issues.17:53
teprrrmilhouse, what picture is it?17:53
sciboyalterego, Locking being the most prominent one.17:53
alteregoLocking?17:53
sciboyalterego, You can lock, but without the keyboard you can't unlock the device.17:53
sciboyLocking the screen etc.17:53
alteregoAh17:53
zoranbuttons?17:53
alteregoI kind of _need_ that ..17:53
lardmanyes you can17:53
sciboyI'm just going by the reports out already.17:54
lardmannot that I've installed it of course, but someone I know just showed me17:54
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X-Fadelardman: Oh, sure ;)17:54
alteregoHah17:55
milhouseall my buttons just stopped working in OS2008 - had to reboot from a ssh session. odd.17:55
lardmanO:-)17:55
X-Fadelardman: You can always say that your developer device code, warrants the use of 2008 ;)17:55
milhouseteprrr: it's a dirty great big apple :)17:55
lardmanX-Fade: something like that :)17:56
alteregoHeh17:56
lardmanlet's be realistic, if there was a problem they'd have pulled the download I imagine17:56
sciboyFinished flashing!17:56
alteregoI still think I'll wait./17:56
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alteregoThough I have got the N810 dmesg output from thoughtfix.17:57
sciboyOh wow this is sexy.17:57
X-FadeAs I said. OS2008 is great, but without apps...17:57
alteregoHe seems really broken down about the whole affair.17:57
lardmanalterego: me too, but not for a mac id, it was an interesting read17:57
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X-FadeI think we need to do a Chinook porting sprint..17:57
alteregoHeh17:57
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revmilhouse: i had that problem a lot with the last OS2007- buttons stopped working randomly all the time, usually when i had locked the screen (with power, enter), finding i couldn't unlock it because no button press was recognized17:58
lardmanso, anyone know if insmod can be replaced without needing to change anything else?17:59
revmilhouse: on an N800. think i was the only one with that problem as far as i an tell17:59
sciboyWoah, responsive17:59
revrad!17:59
teprrrmilhouse, doh :)18:00
guardianis clutter used by the tablet ?18:00
guardianOS2008 i mean18:00
alteregoHmm .. I've never had that problem.18:00
milhouserev: i thought i'd seen someone else mention it... hope it doesn't happen again, pretty serious problem if it does (then again it could be an issue with the N800 not liking this version of OS 2008!)18:00
alteregoguardian, clutter has nothing to do with maemo.18:00
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guardiani know it has nothing to do18:00
guardiani wanted to know if some default app used it somehow18:00
alteregoIt's not part of maemo.18:01
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revmilhouse: yeah, i had to regularly pop my battery out to deal with it, bloody nuisance18:01
X-Fadeguardian: It can run on the device, but is not there at the moment.18:01
X-Fadeguardian: And software rendering isn't that fast ;)18:01
revmilhouse: but i'm not sure how it would be the N800 not liking 08, maybe it's just not been debugged on it? they did work from the get go, right?18:01
lardmanI want to know why the Chinook SDK doens't have Python 2.5?18:01
revthey're switching to smalltalk, i hear!18:01
alteregoStrange.18:02
_Monkeywell, Strange. is my / filesystem full?18:02
alteregoWhy does the example unpack the fiasco image?18:02
lardmanso as not to flash the bootloader which may be different18:02
alteregoIs there some kind of device ID check code or something?18:02
alteregoAh18:02
foolishNot maemo related really, but are there any channels/people related to the pimlico dates application somewhere?18:03
alteregoMakes sense.18:03
sciboyNow I'm curious about youtube video performance on 200818:04
alterego Yes .. Me too.18:05
alteregoHow does it run?18:05
sciboyGimme a sec.18:05
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alteregoI meant the whole OS. I don't really care much about youtube :)18:06
sciboyWoah18:06
zorangoes out of device?18:06
sciboyIt's playing something that 2007 chocked on completely smoothly.18:06
alteregoNice.18:07
alteregoWhat about the nseries website? :)18:07
guardianis there a memory card format that is better to have than another ?18:08
zoranfs?18:10
_Monkeysomebody said fs was the strenght of unix18:10
alteregosciboy, if you say it's worth the upgrade I'll do it now ;)18:10
sciboyalterego, Depends on the apps you use.18:11
zorancould you make a review?18:11
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alteregoNot many really ..18:11
alteregoI guess I spend more time developing.18:11
zoranI meant sciboy18:12
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sciboyLooks nice, is a little snappier, that boost as far as surfing is concerned is definitely noticable.18:13
* sciboy loads up google mail18:13
zorancould you install xterm and openssh and all necessary stuff?18:14
pcspeakerJust flashed my n800 with os2008 :)18:14
alteregoI doubt it zoran18:14
pcspeakerFantastic!18:14
alteregoI'm surrounded by bad people!18:14
sciboyzoran, Looks like xterm is already included.18:14
zoranfine18:14
alteregoNo shit .. Really?18:14
zoranssh?18:14
sciboyYes18:14
_Monkeyssh is a 'secure shell' client/server.  It lets you get access to the linux shell on a Tablet. See http://maemo.org/community/wiki/installssh2006/18:15
alteregoThat's .. Interesting ..18:15
alteregoCool, and interesting.18:15
alteregoWhat xterm?18:15
_Monkeysomebody said xterm was the enhanced version of osso-xterm from maemo-hackers. It adds font and color selection support, URL opening through context menu, and a sidebar with additional keys such as Ctrl+letters. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/osso-xterm-advanced or http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/debs/ for an alternate onscreen keyboard18:15
sciboyIt is still a dev release though18:15
alteregoAh18:15
sciboyNot sure, it just pops open, osso_xterm, shows BusyBox v1.6.118:16
lardmanwho owns _Monkey?18:16
zoranperl, python?18:16
lardmanCan't he be made to reply to questions starting with some special char?18:16
Takyeah, some special char like ‽18:16
pupnik ! ~ etc18:16
lardman~ is already used I think18:17
zoranor naem of the bot18:17
lardman~itt18:17
sciboyI haven't found any repositories with python or ssh yet.18:17
pupnikwhat zoran said18:17
lardmansciboy: tried maemo extras?18:17
sciboyNope.18:17
zorannaem == name18:17
sciboyI've only had this running for less about 10 minutes. =P18:17
zorannow you cannot hide!18:18
pupnikno info on shipping18:18
penguinbaitanyone booting from mmc with 2008 yet?18:18
db48xsciboy: it's already listed in the app catalog, but it's disabled18:18
sciboyRefreshing18:19
revspeaking of MMC, why did nokia have to change SD size/format again?!18:19
pupnikscummvm is already built for 200818:19
sciboyI see python2.518:19
pcspeakerfb2reader?18:19
revit wasn't bad moving up to SD, because you can just use an adapter, but down to mini now18:19
pupnikthey didn't have space for full size SD18:19
sciboyNo fbreader from what I can see.18:20
revfbreader has an OS 2008 port18:20
pupnikit was not a capricious decisino18:20
pcspeakerI wonder if the CPU is on 400Mhz now...18:20
pcspeakerHow can I check?18:21
revpupnik: how is that? i mean, full size SD isn't big, not the card nor the pins, not like having a CF slot or something. i mean, i don't really care that much, i have mini SD for my phone and GBA flash cart, but uff, now i have a few more 1 GB cards i can't use :P18:21
revfbreader for OS2008: http://www.fbreader.org/maemo/maemo4.php18:21
revare there any ebook readers for maemo than fbreader?18:22
lardmanpcspeaker: cat /proc/cpuinfo ?18:22
zoranmicrodrive would make device worth of porting almost everything18:22
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pupnikrev, this is the word from the horses mouth: space constraints.  i wasn't there to debate it18:22
KhertanSomeone know where i can find libbz2-1.0  for chinook ?18:22
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TPCpcspeaker, /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_fre18:23
kriebelI'd rather have two SD slots than the stupid thumb board18:23
TPCshould be a q at the end of the last path18:23
sciboySweet got FBReader. =D18:23
alteregoHow well does google maps run?18:23
TPCpcspeaker, the frequency is dynamic on OS2008 depending on how much work its doing18:23
zorandoes dmesg give something?18:23
pcspeakerAnd the max value is?18:24
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penguinbaitKriebel, then just keep or buy an n800, same os same CPU, no keyboard??18:24
sciboyKhertan, Check you got maemo extras enabled in the application manager.18:24
sciboyKhertan, It says it's available for me.18:24
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Ar-rasso is there any easteregg in OS 2008?18:24
GeneralAntillesAnybody manage to get through a whole map download on OS2008?18:25
kriebelpenguinbait, yeah, I could do that.  I'm waiting to see if one or the other actually gets sold with WiMAX in my area18:25
lardmanAnyone know how the navigation stuff works on OS2008? It done over a 'net connection or on the device itself?18:25
TPCpcspeaker, 165000 266000 330000 400000 are the aviable values18:25
TPCpcspeaker, representing 165mhz 266mhz 330mhz and 400mhz18:25
GeneralAntillesSame way as Navicore does it now.18:25
elbpcspeaker: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq18:25
Khertansciboy > extra is activated .... Strange18:25
lardmanGeneralAntilles: which is how?18:25
guardiandoes the speed of a memory card depends on the format: SD, MCC, MicroSD ?? (i'm totally noob at that)18:25
GeneralAntillesLocal, I believe18:25
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I'm wondering what data is contained within the maps18:25
lardmanfor doing routing ourselves :)18:26
zoranTPC, like powerd?18:26
TPCzoran, something like that18:26
zoranthat is cool18:26
sciboyKhertan, Well I ran apt-cache search and it showed libbz2-1.018:26
TPCaltought I belive it does it in the kernel rather than having a userspace daemon18:26
zoranbetter option18:26
kriebelguardian, the speed of the card depends more on the specs of the card and the reader, not the type of card; but I hear MMC is a little slower than the newer SD18:26
sciboyKhertan, Only other apps I have installed are Ogg Support, Mauku and FBReader18:26
zoransaves battery18:26
elbI'm not really sure what the obsession I see in here the past few days with CPU speed is18:27
elbeveryone says it seems faster, and that's the important thing18:27
Khertansciboy > can you paste mme your source.list ?18:27
pupnikthe year of omap2420 envy is ending soon18:27
elbI wouldn't care if my computer ran at 1Hz if it was fast enough for what I needed it for18:27
Ar-raselb :D18:27
Ar-ras1 Hz18:27
zorankeeps the world spin18:27
Ar-rasthat would suck18:28
sciboyKhertan, No, don't have the patience to work that out right now.18:28
Ar-rasloading Windows XP in a year18:28
zoranelb needs some real time system18:28
zoranlike qnx18:28
pcspeaker2008 mplayer anyone?18:28
TPCelb, speed isn't the only issue18:28
lardmanelb: more is always better, especially when it comes to playing movies18:29
TPCelb, battery life is important as well18:29
Taknobody uses qnx anymore ;-)18:29
elblardman: not really18:29
lardmanelb: no, but in this case yes18:29
elbTPC: yes, I know that ... I'm saying the obsession in here is stupid, not agreeing with it18:29
zoranTak, it was intended for embedded18:29
X-Fadepcspeaker: everything without gtk should just work..18:29
Khertansciboy > can t find it with apt-cache18:29
X-Fadepcspeaker: 2007 versions I mean.18:29
elblardman: there are plenty of MPEG decoders which run at ~100MHz (or less)18:30
Takzoran: even for embedded18:30
elbthe question should always be, "is it fast enough?", not "how many MHz is it?"18:30
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zorantak, some instruments people almost don't see, used in everyday job18:30
elbthere is a *lot* of qnx out there18:30
jotteven "is it fast enough for what i want to do with it"18:31
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elbit's true that you don't see neutrino everywhere you turn, but neutrino was never qnx's selling point18:31
Ar-rasno not fast enough18:31
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zoranelb, I made a mistake mentioning qnx18:31
jottlike do i need a dsp, a fpu, gpu, etc..18:31
Takmeh, we went from qnx => rtlinux => linux18:31
Ar-rasjott is that a joke???18:32
elb"we don't use it any more" is a very different claim from "nobody uses it any more"18:32
Ar-rasor pure ironic?18:32
jottAr-ras: no the truth..18:32
elbyeah, I'm with jott, here18:32
Ar-ras:O18:32
jotti don't need a gpu on a dedicated crypto solution18:33
elbevery MHz you can shave off, and every device you can leave out, is a smaller power footprint18:33
Ar-rasi give you a calculator18:33
elbchoose your device capabilities for what you want to use it for18:33
Ar-raslol elb18:33
sciboyNight everyone.18:33
sciboyHave fun with the hoard of people reporting about 2008 on the N80018:33
Ar-rasi gave you both a 10 $ Calculator18:33
lardmanelb: can you point me to one (MPEG decoder)?18:33
pcspeakerModern task are cpu-intensive...18:33
pcspeakerLike flash...18:34
elbAr-ras: if what I want to do is simple math, then sure18:34
Takheh - how's this: "I don't see anybody using it in new devices anymore"18:34
pcspeakerOr compressed video decoding...18:34
Ar-raselb what do you want to do with N800?18:34
Ar-rasmaybe an old Windows Mobile Device is the right for you?18:34
Ar-ras:D18:34
Ar-rasstill has DSP and stuff, but is slow18:35
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zoranAr-ras, not a windows device could help18:35
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elbAr-ras: I'm not saying slow is good, I'm saying an obsession with *CPU MHz* is stupid18:35
Ar-rasdont think so18:35
zoranelb, a lot of people means multimedia for n81018:36
jottelb: that's the point.. especially if there are optional components that perform much better than a generic cpu..18:36
jott(given a specific task)18:36
lardmanI think the point here is that people have used the device at 330mhz and wanted it to be faster doing certain things, that's why the move to 400mhz is good18:36
derfI just want it to boot faster.18:36
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X-Fadederf: huh?18:36
pcspeakerAnd ARM is more power efficient but very slow comparing to the modern x86...18:37
elblardman: there are Hitachi SuperH devices which are such18:37
elblardman: they have hardware assist, of course, but that's the point -- *MHz* is meaningless18:37
derfIt takes like over a minute to go from power on to where I can actually click on a menu.18:37
milhouseholy cow... the shared folders idea isn't working too well18:37
lardmanelb: but that's a dsp18:37
TPCmilhouse, why not?18:38
lardmanelb: see my comment above, mhz is a useful metric sometimes18:38
elbthe SuperH is a general purpose microprocessor18:38
milhousei've got a folder with over 200GB and 20,000+ directories - each time the N800 tries to access that share it iterates every directory and file from the beginning. nuts.18:38
X-Fadederf: Why would you ever power it down?18:38
lardmanelb: with a dsp18:38
derfBecause it doesn't last all day otherwise.18:38
elblardman: I still believe the comment is incorrect18:38
Ar-rasmilhouse where is this option?18:38
milhousefile manager -> Shared folders18:38
elblardman: it sounds to me like the speed improvement in OS2008 is probably, as much as anything, code and/or optimizer changes18:38
zoranmilhouse, maybe the number of subdirectories matters18:38
milhouseit's picked up my NAS, Win XP and Win2K3 machines18:39
lardmanelb: we'll agree to differ then :)18:39
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elblardman: because 330MHz->400MHz is trivial, unles you're *just* on the cusp of being able to do something18:39
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TPCderf, if it doesn't last all day without powering down you should go back to the store and get it fixed18:39
TPCderf, because then its broken18:39
lardmanelb: and that's exactly the point with mplayer18:39
milhousebut the NAS is unusable because it takes a couple of hours for the N800 to walk every directory18:39
X-Fadederf: It can be standby for days/weeks?18:39
Ar-rasmilhouse dont have that option?18:39
TPCderf, when not used it uses so little power that it could just as well have been off18:39
GeneralAntillesA 20% boost is hardly trivial.18:39
derfThat has not been my experience.18:40
TPCderf, standby time is up to two weeks withotu any problems18:40
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elblardman: sure, there may be a specific operation or two -- but there are zillions of people obsessing about *MHz* in here, even when they have shown themselves that 2008 does or does not fix the problem they were looking for18:40
X-Fadederf: And booting justs _A_ _LOT_ of energy!18:40
milhousear-ras - i'm not sure what technology it's using to share the content, UPnP maybe?18:40
X-Fadeehm ... uses..18:40
milhouseif you've got any folders shared on an XP machine it should list it18:40
Ar-rason ITT someone wrote UPnP18:40
derfX-Fade: It sure does.18:40
zoranmilhouse, maybe some fuse option could help?18:40
elblardman: people are here saying "oh wowowowowow my youtube plays now!"  "how many MHz am I?"18:40
GeneralAntillesThey're just interested to know.18:40
GeneralAntillesThere's no harm in it. ;)18:40
derfIt _claims_ it will last for 9 or 10 days, but it doesn't.18:40
zoranelb, people buy device for that :)18:41
Ar-raselb youtube is internet service18:41
lardmanelb: comparing different platforms is pointless, but for the same one to be clocked higher one can make more meaningful comparisons18:41
GeneralAntillesMine does, derf. :\18:41
Ar-rasInternet Tablet18:41
lopzre18:41
Ar-rasgot the point?18:41
elbzoran: sure, I understand that youtube playing is a great feature -- but MHz are irrelevant18:41
elbeither it plays, or it doesn't18:41
lardmanelb: I agree about the fact that the software may be different though18:41
X-Fadederf: I think yours is broken ;)18:41
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derfMust be.18:41
TPCelb, the thing is people like talking about things18:41
elband I *strongly* suspect that the fact that it plays now and did not before is an optimization issue, not a 70MHz processor difference18:41
zoranelb, I use 770 the way you do, but I understand all those folks wanthin films etc18:41
X-Fadederf: Or you have installed software that remains active..18:41
lardmanderf: I find that x-term kills my battery18:42
zoranlardman, ?18:42
_Monkeylardman, is normal that google sat not work?18:42
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derflardman: How so?18:43
lardmanzoran: whenever I leave xterm running my battery life is less than with nothing running18:43
zorank, it is one more process18:43
Ar-rasmilhouse sharing a folder on my pc but not seeing in Filemanager18:43
Daniellionanyone running the hacker os on the 77018:43
Ar-rasmilhouse should i reboot N800 ?18:43
lardmanzoran: perhaps, depends if the ram banks are shut down to save power, otherwise it should just go to sleep and it would be the same18:43
zoranwrites to swap?18:44
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lardmannot enabled18:44
zoranwhat if you do?18:44
Ar-rasah now18:44
zoranlardman, does top works on your device?18:45
zoranor something similar18:45
lardmanzoran: yes18:45
pupnikthe 20% boost can also be looked at like a present to us to use for software-decoding of audio, since ogg isn't on the dsp yet. :P18:45
lardmanzoran: but running top will defeat dyntick18:45
zoranis there any sign of memory problem?18:45
zorank18:45
lardmanpupnik: yeah, yeah, I'm starting work again ;)18:45
TPCpupnik, yet? you think it will be?18:46
pupnikDaniellion: i have run it, and some ppl use it exclusively18:46
lardmanzoran: I don't know, it's not a huge difference, I've not bothered to track down what it's doing to tell the truth18:46
Daniellionso far everything is working18:46
Daniellionthough playing audio like the bbc radio stuff seems to lock the interface18:46
zoranlardman, if works, who cares18:46
Daniellionif i hit the dual key lock/unlock i can go to off line mode and kill the streaming net connection which lets me stop the stream app18:47
elblardman: xterm is well known to wake idle processors *very* frequently18:47
elbI forget if it's at 10Hz or 100Hz, but it's frequent18:47
pupnikDaniellion: are you using latest version?  There were memory corruption issues - get very newest version (like yesterday or something)18:47
lardmanelb: really? Okay, not just my imagination then :)18:47
elblardman: yeah, this is documented by the powertop guys18:47
DaniellionOh?18:47
Daniellionwhat were the symptons pup?18:48
zoranelb, just xterm?18:48
KhertanGtk.glade is missing arg .....18:48
elbzoran: many applications do so, xterm is one such application18:48
Daniellioni flashed it over the weekend18:48
elbI think there are patches floating around to fix t hat18:48
lardmanelb: quite important for a device that produces its good battery life by doing dyntick (and cpufreq too now)18:49
* elb passes out the free urxvt18:49
lardmanin .deb form ;)18:49
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zoranelb, for 2006 also?18:49
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pupnikhttp://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/new_os2007_he_for_the_nokia_770_with_mozilla_engine_and_memory_corruption_bugfix.html    <<< Daniellion18:50
lardmanhttp://www.lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/known.php#xterm18:50
elbzoran: I don't *build* urxvt, I'm just saying, it sucks a lot less than xterm ;-)18:50
zorank18:50
zoranI have a problems just in xterm on freebsd18:51
zoransome keyboard issues on ssh etc18:51
lardmanhmm, might be doable then - wrap xterm in a shell script and add the +sm switch18:51
zoranbut just for one type of conenction18:51
zoranlardman, could be too much18:51
lardmanhow come?18:52
zoranmaybe simple, smaller term...18:52
pupnikbtw for Desktop PC i found switftfox (faster firefox) and using noscript + adblocker plugins i have stable browser again :)18:52
lardmanzoran: this is easier than writing a new maemo wrapper for a different term18:52
elblardman: or put xterm*sessionMgt: false in your X resource database18:52
lardmanelb: that's an idea18:53
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elbmaybe XTerm18:53
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zoranlardman, probably correct18:53
elbI forget what xterm uses18:53
Daniellionim gonna get the 81018:53
Ar-raswill there be a new IT OS 2008 release when N810 comes out?18:53
Ar-rashihi18:53
Daniellionand selling my 770 to a friend.. ill let him know18:53
Ar-rasevery new user of n810 should update *G*18:53
GeneralAntillesGet the N800 instead, Daniellion, especially if you don't need the upgraded screen.18:54
GeneralAntilles$212 is a much better price than $47018:54
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Atariiupgraded screen?18:55
GeneralAntillestransflective18:55
Atariinice18:56
Atariii definately want to upgrade to the 810, but the one thing stopping me is the d-pad bein hidden away18:56
Atariithat wud annoy me so much18:56
lardmanbring on a keyboard :)18:57
penguinbaitI agree Atarii, They should have had 2 dpads18:57
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penguinbaitanyone else think 2008os is ugly18:57
GeneralAntillesMeh, themes will fix it soon enough.18:57
penguinbaittrue18:58
lardmanwumpus: I'll see if I can build a proper insmod and see whether the module wants to go this evening18:58
GeneralAntillesChanging your background help a lot. ;)18:58
Atariihow many default themes on 2008os are there? 4 like usual?18:58
GeneralAntilles218:58
lardmansee you all later18:58
penguinbaitI like the windows look, but the ugly icons have ot go18:58
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penguinbait2 on my image18:58
penguinbaitecho and glasser18:58
zoranpenguinbait, pretty too much colors and the default style is not so pleasant to me18:58
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penguinbaitboth themes stink18:59
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zoranfor me it started on n80019:00
zoransimple 2006 stype looks better19:00
zoran*style19:00
GeneralAntillesDon't know why they reduced the number of brightness levels.19:00
X-FadeTry plankton too...19:00
zoranto not complain19:00
penguinbaitthats easily fixed19:00
penguinbaitthis is also not final version from my understanding19:01
alteregoI'm pretty sure it is the final version19:01
penguinbaitI installed ssh, but rootme wont let me in19:01
penguinbaitwhat is the root password?19:02
_Monkeythe root password is, like, rootme19:02
alteregoProbably different passwords ..19:02
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penguinbaitnot anymore Monkey19:02
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X-Fadepenguinbait: It should be rootme..19:02
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penguinbaithmm, can you verify it19:02
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penguinbaitwont let me in19:03
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KhertanIt still rootme19:03
KhertanI ve verified19:03
GeneralAntillesI had to enable R&D mode19:03
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penguinbaitah19:03
penguinbaitno RD mode enable19:04
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K`zanG'day folks!19:04
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zoranor you could ssh to it19:05
TPCpenguinbait, rootme worked for me19:06
TPCwhen sshing19:06
GeneralAntillesssh didn't work for me, either.19:06
DaniellionHmm i liked the LCARS them myself ;)19:07
zoranssh root@localhost19:07
_Monkeyssh root@localhost is the way I'm using it on n80019:07
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Daniellionit caught soo much attn19:07
penguinbaitI did not enable r/d mode19:07
zoranyou could change it later, manualy19:07
Daniellionpenguinbait is your kde addon working for the 810? or don't you have one yet?19:08
GeneralAntillesssh root@localhost (or external) didn't work for me.19:08
TPCpenguinbait, just do it the easy way, enable rd mode and do sudo gainroot19:08
TPC:P19:08
GeneralAntillesRhapsody home applet is rather nice19:08
GeneralAntillesThey kinda went overboard with the transparency, though. :\19:09
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alteregoCrap, I just realised my device isn't going to dual boot anymore O_O19:09
penguinbaitNo 810 yet, but KDE3.5.8 is compiled and ready to go19:09
penguinbaittesting begins NOW!!19:09
alteregoGeneralAntilles, I love the transparency :P19:09
alteregoYou and your KDcrap19:10
penguinbaitwhat xterm are you using?19:10
GeneralAntillesPft19:10
GeneralAntillesAqua, baby!19:10
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penguinbaitwhat xterm repository are you using19:10
Atariipenguinbait wats kde like on the 770?19:10
alteregoThat's nice. The root password is in /etc/passwd19:11
alteregoThough it's not plain text.19:11
penguinbaitI compile KDE after getting 800. my 770 never made it back from Nokia repair19:11
alteregopenguinbait, they stole your 770?!19:11
Atariiah :( any reports from 770 users?19:11
penguinbaitThey paid me for it19:11
alteregoThey paid you money for your 770? Weird.19:11
Atariiwish they wud buy mine, i want to get rid of it19:12
alteregoHow much? Was it cost price?19:12
penguinbaitIt runs OK with swap enabled, I want to see how it runs on 2008os19:12
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zoranAtarii, kde on 770? I have 770, but never thouhgt about19:12
penguinbaitThey paid me 200$ but it was when the n80 was just out, so I took the money and upgraded19:12
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alteregoRight19:12
penguinbaitI had a 6682 I paid 300$ for from letstalk.com, Nokia paid me 325$ for it after being at repair over 30 days19:13
Daniellionpb is there instr for installing without doing the dual boot memory card thing..19:13
Daniellionjnettlet_ cool your in MA too?19:13
GeneralAntillesWhy does everybody insist on calling a MAC address a "serial number"?19:13
TPCGeneralAntilles, because nokia calls it that19:13
jnettlet_Daniellion: yeah19:13
GeneralAntillesAh, right.19:13
jnettlet_Cambridge19:13
_MonkeyCambridge is a weird outer london IT haven too19:13
Atariilol19:13
Daniellionim in cambridge too!19:13
Daniellioncool19:13
alteregoMe too!19:13
Atariiim near19:13
alteregoI live in Bar Hill :)19:14
Daniellionwere talking cambridge MA us19:14
Daniellionnot cambridge Uk19:14
alteregoPfft.19:14
Atariimy gf used to live there alterego19:14
Atariiim talkin uk :p19:14
alteregoOh, that Cambridge ..19:14
TPCyou all live close to each other? get together, have a OS2008 release party, get a few beers19:14
TPC:P19:14
Daniellionyay cool19:14
alteregoAtarii, name? I might know her ;)19:14
penguinbaithttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631&highlight=simplified19:14
Daniellionim prolly ordering my 810 soon19:14
jnettlet_I don't have anything that runs os2008.  I was hoping to get a discount for the n810 but didn't19:14
penguinbaitI had to find it, Daniellion19:15
jnettlet_So it is just me and my trusty n77019:15
DaniellionI found a way to make the mostly white os looks 1/2 way decent19:15
penguinbaitthere you go, I have not used them myself though19:15
Atariilol she only lived there when she was young19:15
GeneralAntillesThere's no such thing as a "n770". <_<19:15
alteregoAtarii, We probably went to school together19:15
Atariijnettlet_ same here, lets hav a 2008he release party, if it happens19:15
penguinbaitN770 n77019:15
Daniellionerf... do you ahve to do it with an ext card?19:15
jnettlet_nokia 77019:16
_Monkeynokia 770 is the best plataform for homebrew this day19:16
jnettlet_picky picky19:16
penguinbaitmust we get picky19:16
penguinbaithehe19:16
* alterego wonders how he can take a screen shot in OS200819:16
jnettlet_really the speed doesn't bother me I just wish I had the additional memory19:16
zoran770 is the proof of the concept, elb had in minds19:16
Daniellionbtw jnettlet_ the 2007 he works fine so far on my 77019:17
Daniellionjust the audio glitch19:17
penguinbaitI bought 770 as soon as I heard they existed19:17
jnettlet_Daniellion: yeah I have had it on mine for a long time now.  Even back when it was a little less polished19:17
penguinbaitI wanted a zaurus for a long time, but kept waiting19:17
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penguinbaitmstly because of cost19:17
zoranit's gone now19:17
alteregoI quite wanted a Zaurus when the first came out.19:18
alteregoI'm glad I never bothered.19:18
GeneralAntillesYeah, so did I, penguinbait.19:18
kulvealterego: with my screen grabber :)19:18
jnettlet_it is really better I didn't get a n810 discount.  I had a bunch of projects planned for it and now I can ignore them and do more important work.19:18
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alteregokulve, ?19:19
_Monkeykulve, are you serious?19:19
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alteregokulve, link?19:19
timelessthere's a screen shot tools19:19
kulvehttp://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2007/01/17/maemo-screen-grabber/19:19
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alteregotimeless, ?19:19
_Monkeyit has been said that timeless, is there a way for the user to choose between rdf and atom feeds?19:19
timelesskulve: hey, where are you?19:20
alterego_Monkey forget timeless19:20
_Monkeyalterego: I forgot timeless19:20
kulvetimeless: home19:20
alterego_Monkey timeless is <reply>19:20
_MonkeyOK, alterego.19:20
zorantimeless, domain problem was solved!19:20
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timelesszoran: which?19:20
alteregoI'm going to write a #maemo log analyser :)19:20
zoranrepo unable to get files19:20
timelessi'm, on a train to turku sataa19:20
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timelesscause?19:21
alteregoI think a lot of information in this channel should be put out there for people.19:21
zoransome tweak on maemo server for domains that do not have devices for sale19:21
X-Fadealterego: It's called google ;)19:21
alteregoX-Fade, sure. But correlating it all into a nice maemo specific site would be cool.19:22
X-FadeIt is funny to see how often #maemo shows up in google searches, because of the log..19:22
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GeneralAntillesHa19:22
alteregoYeah. It's quite useful sometimes :P19:23
GeneralAntillesOften as not it's of ME asking the question here. :\19:23
_berto_is there a log of this channel available via web ?19:23
GeneralAntilles!topic19:23
alteregokulve, your blog renders funny on IT :/19:23
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zoranmgedmin has it19:23
kulvealterego: it shouldn't (except for the menu on left..)19:24
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_berto_oh, thx19:24
timelesskulve, so where are you? I'm traveling@ across finlan :)19:24
alteregoYes, that's what I'm refering to ..19:24
kulvetimeless: Like I said: at home :)19:24
penguinbaitanyone running 2008os, where did you get xterm from, no matter what I add it wont show up in my app manager19:24
alteregopenguinbait, it's in utilities.19:25
X-Fadepenguinbait: It is in your menu already :)19:25
kulvealterego: at least opera in it2007os shows it correctly19:25
zoranextras?19:25
_Monkeyextras is http://repository.maemo.org/extras (distribution: "bora" for n800, "gregale" for n770) (components="free non-free")19:25
X-Fadepenguinbait: No need to install it, it is already there.19:25
alteregokulve, and how long is that going to be useful for :P19:25
penguinbaitah scroll down19:25
penguinbaithehe19:25
alteregoI've not used Opera for ages ..19:25
* timeless was looking for something more gps compatible :)19:25
kulvealterego: I think the mozilla renders it correct too..19:25
alteregokulve, I'm looking at it and I told you it's funny.19:25
kulvealterego: maybe it's just designed so? :)19:26
alteregoThe menu is being placed ontop of the text.19:26
alteregoSo you can't read it clearly.19:26
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kulvealterego: hmm.. that might happen if the screen is too wide..19:26
kulvealterego: it doensn't behave well on too small screens, I admit that..19:27
alteregoWell then :P19:27
kulvebut on my n800, it's ok19:27
alteregoYour program doesn't work on OS200819:27
kulveI'll fix it, if the n810 shows it wrong :)19:27
alteregokulve, it does.19:27
alteregoYour site is displayed funny in OS200819:27
kulvealterego: it should.. Did you click the chinook version?19:27
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alteregoIt installed fine. It just doesn't work.19:28
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kulveit shouldn't show anything, but you it should take a screenshot after 5secs and save it to MyDocs/Images19:28
kulvescreenshot-something.png19:28
alteregoThat's silly.19:28
alteregoYou should get it to display a hildon note.19:28
kulvethen uninstall it :)19:28
alteregoAny indication of it being successfull would be a vast improvement :P19:29
kulveit uses dbus-send to show a banner, but it seems that the dbus api for that has changed in os200819:29
timelessheh19:29
alteregoYou could always do it the proper way ..19:29
kulvealterego: it's basicly a 5 line shell scripta ;)19:29
alteregoUsing the wrapper ..19:29
timelessyay api breaks19:29
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* timeless visits salo.fi..19:30
kulvealterego: it has work well enough for me, show I haven't had the need to change it..19:30
kulvebbl19:30
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alteregokulve, it's not working in OS2008 :P19:30
Daniellionwww.unifursalstudios.com/n770.png19:31
L0cutuswow19:31
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L0cutusfine19:31
L0cutus:)19:31
Daniellioni have it working in 2007 no problem19:31
Daniellionjust used it to take that19:31
GeneralAntillesI'm really digging OS2008 MicroB. D-pad scrolling rocks. :D19:32
Takisn't there a hildon screenshot tool as well?19:32
L0cutusGeneralAntilles: have you a real n810  ?19:33
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GeneralAntillesPft . . . no.19:33
L0cutusare you using the OS2008 for n800 on this guide: http://www.cnet.com/surveillance-state/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html?tag=head19:34
L0cutus?19:34
GeneralAntillesWell, yes, OS2008 on the N800, but I flashed before that guide was posted. ;)19:34
L0cutushehehe19:35
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penguinbaitwhat guide?19:35
_Monkeyit has been said that guide is probably at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~infobot/infobot_guide.html19:35
L0cutusso is this quite 'secure' to do ?19:35
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mmillerDoes anyone know what the time frame is for the final release?19:35
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GeneralAntillesDon't know what you mean by "secure", but it works just fine for me.19:36
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timelessthe people who have an idea can't say19:37
timelessand when they can say, it'll be on planet19:37
penguinbaitand the people without a clue will tell you everyday :)19:37
bill20r3is there a good changelog anywhere?19:37
timelessfwiw there are some fairly painful bugs that will be fixed in the first service release, some are much more relevant to the n800 ...19:38
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Takfirst service release meaning after the official release?19:39
timelessbill: the only good changelog i know of is for browser, and i wrote it. But you don't  have to take my word for it19:39
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bill20r3heh, I was thinking more of what's coming in os2008 on the n80019:40
timelessi can,t speak for time tables/release schedules, but personally, i have a bunch of  n800s and i wouldn't flash the initial n810  release on them. I certainly could, i  could even flash proper equivalent n80 images.19:41
alteregoOS2008 is nice.19:41
bill20r3hand it over mister.19:41
bill20r3:-)19:41
TPCtimeless, not permanently, but its always fun to do it temporarily to try it out, see whats new19:41
alteregoIf you want to install it just do it ..19:41
alteregoWow .. They've even made it hide passwords in the terminal O_O19:42
timelessik think that thoughtfix and others probably do a fairly good job covering new...19:42
* Tak nods @ timeless 19:43
alteregotimeless, why don't you then? Lack of applications?19:43
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L0cutussomeone know if this mail "nokia.developer@nokia.nfusion.com" comes from nokia ?19:43
timelessalterego: careful, password hiding is the bug i have in mind (it's in bugs.maemo, so you an read for youself..)19:43
alteregoNumber?19:43
_MonkeyNumber is meaningless because most of them are duplicates or don't belong in browser19:43
alterego_Monkey forget Number19:44
_Monkeyalterego: I forgot number19:44
alterego_Monkey Number is <reply>19:44
_MonkeyOK, alterego.19:44
alteregoDumb ass ..19:44
timelessbugs filed last friday in systemsoftware/VKB19:44
alteregoOkay19:44
* timeless doesn't memorize numbers19:44
alteregoWell, I'm not too fussed. I'm just impressed the VKB hid my password in the terminal :)19:45
DaniellionSpeaking of apps.. anyone here use pidgin?19:45
GeneralAntilleswaste of time and effort.19:46
GeneralAntillesJabber is much nicer. ;)19:46
timelessfwiw, iirc we still botch passwords at times in microb...19:46
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TPCssh passwords are auto-completed as well if you use ssh from xterm19:46
timelessdaniellion: someone sometimes here seems to maintain at least a port of it19:46
Daniellionim frustrated that i cant find anyone to prog an option to turn off groups.. like adium can or trillian.. so all i see is an alpha list of names.. i hate scrolling though on smaller screens19:46
mmiller Has anyone testing the bluetooth hands free device with OS2008?  I think that was supposed to work in this build.19:46
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timelessmmillr: something specific?19:47
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|RDaniellion : i do on 2007/n80019:47
Daniellionsuposedly agile moble has out a java version19:47
alteregoDaniellion, that's more of an upstream request.19:47
timelessi remember pairing devices as far back as 200619:47
DaniellionI tried putting a ticket in19:47
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Daniellionsomeone else already did they killed mine19:48
mmillertimeless: Being able to use a hands free head set with OS2008.19:48
mmillertimeless: Like you would with a cell phone.19:48
|Ri hope it does19:48
alteregoCool, it comes with USB ethernet support.19:48
Daniellioni lvoe my version 2 LG chocolate as a evdo modem19:48
timelessmy n810s are on a bus to turku19:48
timelessmy n800s are at work19:49
timelessmy hands free is at home19:49
timelessand i'm on a train all alone :(19:49
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TPCtimeless, at least you seem to have IRC, always something :P19:49
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Daniellionyeah xchat works19:50
timelessirc, and gps(bt)19:50
Daniellioncant find were to put the server password in anymore19:50
Daniellionthought there were 2 floating around one version resized the ther was less pollished19:50
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Daniellionsome dialogues are off screen19:50
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Takyeah, there are two19:51
DaniellionHmm maybe i put the wrong one in then19:51
Takhttps://downloads.maemo.org/product/OS2007/maemo-xchat  is the more polished one19:51
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Taktimeless: I would throw myself under the train at that point19:52
alteregoHmm .. I can't mount ext2 :/19:52
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timelesstak: my n81 8gb has a lot of podcasted stuff i snarffed earlier19:53
penguinbaitinsmod ext2 and mbcache19:53
Takah, that's all right, anyway19:53
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alteregombcache isn't on the device.19:54
penguinbaitinsmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ext2.ko19:54
alteregoOh, yes it is :)19:54
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penguinbaithehe19:54
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timelessunfortunately, even this bt gps seems to be flaky.. All it has to do is keep its positon on a railway line. But no, it insists on jmping around the line19:54
TPCtimeless, probably one of the cheaper gps chipsets19:55
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derfYou also only generally get returns from satellites on one side of the car.19:55
TPCthe one I have with SiRF III is ok when inside a viechle, especially if the device is by the window19:55
derfOr lose them entirely in stations.19:55
gla55_i had one sirfIII bt gps dongle that really sucked due to having really shitty software..19:55
timelessafaik it's better than my other inaccessible options19:56
gla55_you had to reboot it to make a new connection to it and shit19:56
gla55_also it really sucked in finding sats19:56
timelessyeah, the device is in th19:56
gla55_so just that it's a good chip doesn't mean that it's good19:56
TPCGPS just isn't that accurate19:56
TPCthe error rate for GPS is minimum 5 meters19:56
timelesserr,  yeah, the device is on a windowsill of this train car19:57
TPCmost of the time more19:57
TPCyou can get it down to 2 if using WAAS or EGNOS as well19:57
TPCbut I'm so far north that EGNOS doesn't cover this area :(19:57
b0unc3are  the kernel sources of ITOS2008 available ?19:57
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derf3 meters is the number I'd always heard.19:57
timelesssill is on the inner ttrack side (i.e., if outside it'd be between tracks)19:58
TPCderf, under optimal conditions maybe, but the conditions are never optimal19:58
timelessand  i'm pretty sure my map wouldn't show 5m19:58
timelessseems like the map is 1000yd wide. Standar phone screen19:59
Danielliondamit.. maemo isn't letting me in to get xchat grrrrrr20:00
mmillerDid anyone check out the palm VM20:00
bill20r3I was just looking at the faq, but I didn't care to give them my info to download it.20:00
suihkulokkitimeless: well, when you are in a train you rarely need gps to know where you are going :P20:01
fysamost bora apps still work on OS2008?20:01
bill20r3I think I'll wait for it to come out of beta.20:01
alteregofysa, of course not20:01
alteregoNone of them do ..20:01
timelessit's a LD-4" (nokia)20:01
fysaah20:01
timelesserr 4"20:01
timelesserr 4w20:01
timelesssuihkulokki: but i want to know where i am20:02
kaltsib0unc3 yes the kernel sources are availabel20:02
suihkulokkion a train. to turku.20:02
b0unc3kaltsi: where ?20:02
kaltsib0unc3 in the chinook sdk repository apt-get source rx-34-kernel20:02
timelessbut more importantly, i'm testing the gps accuracy. People keep giving exxcuses about using gps on foot20:02
fysaI just care about X-Chat :P20:02
fysabut boy is maemo's site slow now20:03
Takmy foot's not big enough for gps to matter much20:03
timelessin case people are curious, i'm using an e61i w/ putty to vpn/scrreen/ssh/screen/epic. But20:03
suihkulokkithe problem for gps is that the train is metallic tube. even the windows have metallic wiring inside them.20:04
timelessbut. Putty is giving me a white input box w/ white text, so i litterally can't see what i'm typing20:04
gla55_you can get a gps fix from an airplane tho20:04
alteregoNo libgcrypt of libgnutls20:04
gla55_even with n95's shitty gps20:04
alteregoPidgin doesn't install right :/20:04
Daniellionhttps://garage.maemo.org/projects/xchat/20:04
Daniellionis this the untweeked one?20:05
fysaX-Chat + bitlbee is better than pidgin. :)20:05
TPCtimeless, wait until 2011 when gallileo becomes aviable20:05
TPCthen devices will come out that use both GPS and gallileo20:05
TPCwith very nice accuracy20:05
kaltsib0unc3 oops it's not there :)20:05
alteregoI use MSN20:05
alteregoAnd XChat is crap on the N80020:05
GeneralAntillesXchat works great20:06
fysaX-Chat with Tree view.20:06
fysaperfect.20:06
GeneralAntillesJust use Skyhuser's port.20:06
alteregoNot on the N80020:06
fysathe top zoom buttons flip tabs20:06
fysai'm using it right now.20:06
alteregoUnless you have an external KB ..20:06
GeneralAntillesWorks fine for me. :\20:06
Daniellionlink?20:06
TPCyou're probably better off running irssi on a server somewhere, and sshing in20:06
fysaand bitlbee lets you access MSN/AIM/Yahoo via IRC20:06
fysathe key is ZNC.20:06
Danielliondamn thing won't let me fracking log in20:07
Danielliongrr20:07
kaltsib0unc3 sorry I assumed that the package would contain the sources but it doesn't.. my bad20:07
fysaZNC to bitlbee and all of your IRC servers.  Then you can run multiple clients simultaneously that share the same exact username/session on everything.  If someone IM's me, it shows up on my N800, HTPC/XBMC, laptop, desktop and kitchen.20:07
GeneralAntillesWho is going to think up a cool use for the double-click option in mce.ini?20:07
timelesssui: anyway, i should be at the port statioon in 15min20:08
fysaall of your IM contacts show up in a private #bitlbee channel20:08
timelessgeneral: eh?20:08
alteregoGod, Pidgin is uninstallable on OS200820:08
fysashared session IRC without using screen and irssi.20:08
* Tak agree @ xchat + bitlbee20:09
GeneralAntillesThere's a new entry in mce.ini for a double-click on the powerkey.20:09
fysahttp://www.bitlbee.org/main.php/servers.html20:09
GeneralAntillesJabber transports with the built-in client is the way to do it.20:10
b0unc3kaltsi: np20:10
fysaJabber would be nice too, but not all IM protocols support multiple simultaneous logins.20:10
AtariiGeneralAntilles every1 was offline all the time when i tried that20:10
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GeneralAntillesGotta find a better server, then.20:10
fysawhat?20:10
fysano.  I mean..20:11
fysai.e., MSN.20:11
fysaIt logs you out if you login elsewhere.20:11
TakDaniellion: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/install/xchat.install20:11
TPCfysa, bitlbee is indeed nice20:11
TPCbut whats wrong with using it in screen+irssi?20:11
fysaSo if I'm sitting at my desk and need to walk somewhere, I have to break the conversation and start it with a different account.20:11
fysanothing :)20:11
fysaI was using screen+weechat for a while.20:12
alteregoThere should really be MSN and yahoo! support in the Chat app.20:12
fysabut then noticed that X-Chat lets you put the tabs as a list ont he side..20:12
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GeneralAntillesand AIM!20:12
fysaand you can get them big enough to be easily thumbable20:12
alteregoYeah20:12
TPCfysa, might work for you, but wouldn't be practical when you're in 30+ channels :P20:12
TPC+ pm windows20:12
fysayeah, I'm usually in 12-20 at most with half being IM conversations.20:13
fysaI only IRC to talk about IRC. ;)20:13
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fysamy latest home theather/life integration 'tweak' last night was setting up nzbIRC.20:14
fysato work with bitlbee..20:14
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fysaso the family can IM this bot to do usenet searches/queue downloads20:15
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TPCI've been thinking about making a bot that monitors various websites and other online resources20:15
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TPCand IMs me when interesting things happen20:15
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fysaso I "!autotv add Curb Your Enthusiasm"20:15
TPCso I could get any interesting info directly on my IT20:16
fysaand it auto-downloads every new CYE episode.. ;)20:16
TPCor maybe puts them all in a RSS feed, that would be easier20:16
AtariiTPC reseach yahoo pipes20:16
TPCAtarii, nah, I would use jabber20:16
TPCthere are problably good perl modules for easy interacting with jabber20:16
fysaeven if not, there are a ton for IRC and bitlbee is simple to get going.20:17
Atariiok, i just knew that yahoo pipes can do that, as ive been workin with it recently, well the rss bit anyways20:17
TPCindeed, I have made several IRC bots in my days, and even an IRC client once20:17
fysaI don't know what the popular bots now are, but you could run an eggdrop(?) with RSS/google/IMDB/weather plugins and stick it on Jabber via bitl.20:17
TPCwhats the fun with that? much more fun making your own :P20:18
timelessah what fun, my train arrives 8 28pm. the ferry leaves 8 30pm20:18
timelessthere's a distance of 360yds plus stairs20:18
Atariiuse speedhacks20:19
fysathe fun is writing plugins that do interesting things with information, not writing bot basics ;)20:19
TPCfysa, but the bot basics doesn't take many minutes to make20:19
fysaI suppose.  I prefer 0.20:19
fysatoo many things on my todo lists to waste time on that..20:20
TPCI could probably make a hello world bot in under 3 minutes20:20
TPCand then building on that is easy20:20
fysaok, do it :P20:20
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fysabut it sounds pretty boring.20:21
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fysaI've already found something much more exciting. ;)20:22
fysahttp://www.chatbothub.com/20:22
fysahttp://www.pandorabots.com/botmaster/en/home20:23
fysaheh20:23
fysaI don't know.  10 years ago I would have been excited at making a simple bot..  but life is too busy now and if I'm going to spend time creating something, it has to be useful and ultimately save me more time/effort than I put into it.20:24
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TPCfysa, I wouldn't be making it from scratch of course, I would be using reusable perl modules20:25
TPClike POE::Component::IRC20:25
TPCI'm gonna go buy a burger, back later20:26
fysamm20:26
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Daniellionyay the shyhusker one was the one i had before20:30
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* Tak using xchat-ruby to do botlike things20:31
alteregoYou and your Ruby20:34
alteregoYou're getting worse than me.20:34
* alterego hides his ruby source porn magazine.20:34
* Tak plots to steal alterego's magazine20:35
alteregoNO!20:35
alteregoI mean .. What magazine?20:35
Takhey - I was using that plugin before I ever installed ruby on the device20:35
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alterego:)20:37
alteregoUh oh ..20:37
qoshey guys ... i am trying to compile kryptpad for chinook. but ./configure just creates a makefile which does nothing20:38
alteregoMy charger cable is a bit dodgy me thinks ..20:38
L0cutusalterego: does maemo-ruby work on new os2008?20:39
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qosL0cutus, i wrote an email to the author of the port but didn't get an answer yet20:40
qosbut i am sure it will even if you have to wait 2 weeks ...20:41
lopzbrb20:42
alteregoqos, I'm right here ;)20:42
L0cutuslol20:42
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alteregoL0cutus, some of it does.20:42
alteregoSome of it doesn't.20:42
pupnikdo you run 'make' after that qos? ;)20:42
qosalterego, so... where is my mail? :)20:42
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alteregoqos, lost?20:42
qospupnik, sure20:42
alterego:)20:42
alteregoI'm not sure. I'll check.20:42
alteregoWhen did you send it?20:43
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qosohh, there is an error after during ./configure ... look here: http://pastebin.ca/77369120:43
L0cutusalterego:  can you re-give me your website to download it ?20:43
alteregomaemo.rubyx.co.uk20:44
alteregoI've ported the interpreter. But not the hildon, osso conic ... extensions.20:44
alteregoI had some issues getting them to compile in scratchbox.20:45
alteregoBut I'm working on it :P20:45
alteregoThe next release will also have desktop plugins :)20:45
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L0cutusgreat :)20:46
qosalterego, hmm... i was very tired when i sent it. i hope i hit the send button ;)20:46
alterego:)20:46
alteregoqos, when did you send it?20:46
alteregoOr when did you think you sent it ;)20:46
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qossome days ago ... not more than 720:47
alteregoHmm .. Well I didn't get it.20:47
alteregoI might of accidentally deleted it.20:47
Takare you both talking about ruby-maemo?20:47
alteregoYeah20:47
qosare there some guys with good tips about my scratchbox compiling problem? ./configure stops with http://pastebin.ca/77369120:49
b0unc3qos: update intltool20:52
b0unc3like the error suggest20:52
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qosb0unc3, "apt-cache show intltool | grep -i version" gives "Version: 0.35.0-3"20:53
qosb0unc3, it seems to be high enough20:53
lardmanline 3 sounds like the .in file doesn't exist20:54
lardmanthough the "found" on the next line might mean it was found elsewhere20:55
qoslardman, so? i can't handle this error20:55
lardmanwhat are you compiling?20:56
qoskryptpad20:56
lardmanand does this ./intltool-update.in exist?20:56
lardmanthe error message may be caused by something other than the version of intltool, i.e. the fact the .in file isn't there for some reason20:57
qosno, i don't think so. but it wasn't in the source package20:57
b0unc3qos: have you executed ./autogen.sh ?20:58
alteregoNeat, blogger can make remote blogs.20:58
qosthat was the first i did20:59
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qosb0unc3, see here: http://pastebin.ca/77371021:00
b0unc3line 16 said intltoolize not found... maybe this cause the error..21:01
alteregoI'm setting me up a maemo blog.21:01
alteregoThough I'm not sure how often I'll use it.21:01
alteregoI've never had a blog before ..21:01
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qoshmm ... it seems to be part of intltool package. but the command itself isn't installed or availible21:02
lardmanthe wonders of debian packaging within scratchbox ;)21:03
qoslardman, ok :) so... outside scratchbox there is intltoolize. can i use it in scratchbox somehow?21:03
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lardmanqos: I'd try to install it from source if possible - using the debian tools21:05
lardmanpresumably it complained that you didn't have it when you started the build and you used -d to ignore it?21:05
qoslardman, could you explain that? do you mean to crosscompile it?21:05
qoslardman, i dont think that you mean that ;)21:06
lardmanyes, though I see that chinook at least has it pre-installed (intltools)21:06
lardmanI'm not sure how to make an x86 (outside) scratchbox tool available within it21:06
porterhas anyone tried using the new DT_GNU_HASH binutils and the corresponding glibc patches in scratchbox for a build and a test run of hello world ?21:07
porterI did see this http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg06019.html21:07
porterbut nothing since.21:07
lardmanqos: does apt-cache search intltools show that it is installed?21:08
lardmanqos: I don;t know the command to show the files in a package, might be worth checking if intltoolize is somewhere not in the path21:08
qoslardman, i am checking this right now21:09
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b0unc3qos: dpkg -L intltool21:09
lardmanhmm, says it's not installed to me, but apt-cache says it's there - does apt-cache list the available packages?21:10
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qosdamn, i know where my error was. i thought just because "apt-cache show intltool | grep Version" shows the right version that it is already installed. stupid mistake ... :(21:11
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lardmandebian packaging is all greek to me21:11
milhousemy n800/os2008 has forgotten it has buttons (again) - easy to reproduce, lock it, unlock it, hey presto - no buttons! :)21:11
lardmanmilhouse: works for me21:11
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milhouseactually - lock it, unlock it, lock it againt (then no buttons which is a real bitch)21:11
lardmanah, let me see then21:12
GeneralAntillesJust use softpoweroff21:12
qosA new error, a new fun: "No package 'hildon-libs' found"21:12
qosi think this is because of the api change of chinook21:13
lardmannope, works for me, done it a few times in a row now21:13
qoslardman, works for me too21:13
milhouselardman: hmmm... just rebooted gonna have to play some more21:13
milhouseaha21:13
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milhouselock, unlock, lock, unlock, lock (then you're fcked)21:13
milhousetry that21:14
TPCworks for me21:14
milhousei'm rebooting again now...21:14
lardmanlol21:14
KevinVermahello everyone, can i get to download the vmware or xen/qemu/kvm images of the Chinook ? please guide21:14
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milhouseTPC - "works for you" does this mean your N800 doesn't forget it has buttons?21:15
qosmilhouse, did it. nothing.21:15
milhouses/you/me/21:15
infobotmilhouse meant: TPC - "works for me" does this mean your N800 doesn't forget it has buttons?21:15
fysamilhouse, when you installed OS2008 did you have it keep your backup?21:15
qosmy n800 doesn't forget his buttons21:15
fysaor did you start fresh?21:15
milhousefysa - no21:16
fysaman this OS2008 interface is so much better.21:16
TPCmilhouse, yep, thats what it means21:16
milhousemaybe microb needs to be running... i just booted, couldn't get it to forget it's buttons (locked/unlocked about 5 times in a row) then fired up microb and guess what? no buttons!21:17
GeneralAntillesIt's nice that the Application Manager keeps your place now.21:18
milhousenope nothing to do with microb - just booted again, no apps running and it forgot it's buttons on the third unlock21:18
KevinVermaI notice earlier there were vm images available of the sdk or sandbox env. are those around still ?21:19
milhousesome wierdness going on21:19
milhousei wonder if i should report this as a bug?21:19
TPCmilhouse, can't reproduce it with microb either21:19
milhousei don't think microb is a factor21:19
milhousei've only installed sshd (server)21:19
lardmancool, app manager gets you to sort out dodgy repos now21:19
lardmanthanks Nokia :)21:20
fysaI'd try flashing again from scratch first..21:20
TPCmilhouse, I'm not sure if you should be reporting a bug when you're not running an official version of the software :P21:20
fysacheck dmesg?21:20
milhouseTPC - exactly which is why I asked :)21:20
milhousethen again it would be bad if OS2008 for N800 was released with this bug21:20
milhouse(someone else reported it here earlier)21:21
lardmanI'd not report it to be honest21:21
alteregoO_o21:21
milhousemaybe someone from Nokia is reading this and can pass the word along if necessary :)21:22
alteregoWe shouldn't even be using OS2008 :P21:22
lardmanit's the kind of thing that would be tested (I assume) and you're running a non-official firmware....21:22
milhouselardman - true but you don't get it on your device, i get it mine, so possibly it could slip through21:23
milhouses/it mine/it on mine/21:23
infobotmilhouse meant: lardman - true but you don't get it on your device, i get it on mine, so possibly it could slip through21:23
* dieman wonders out loud: how many hours (days?) to n81021:23
alteregoWell my blog is set up .. Now what should I write about? :/21:23
milhouseany old crap, most people do21:23
bill20r3write something about your blog.21:23
niteOwl2KevinVerma: yes, - see internettablettalk.com there is a thread there on this (vmware dev environment)21:23
milhouse:)21:24
alteregoMaybe a ruby-maemo roadmap.21:24
alteregoThat would be a nice introduction :)21:24
KevinVermaniteOwl2, thanks i'll try to digg out21:24
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KevinVermaniteOwl2, someone asked for qemu images on the list today i guess, i am much interested in that but vmware images will work for now21:25
fysabattery meter is more accurate now?21:25
KevinVermathanks21:25
niteOwl2KevinVerma: Shouldn't be hard - I think it was recent - perhaps the last week or so.21:25
fysashowed almost totally full earlier, but now has one bar21:25
niteOwl2KevinVerma: No problem21:25
TPCqemu can run vmware images21:25
fysaafter updating.  that's a good thing.21:25
TPCI think21:25
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lardmanwumpus: you about?21:26
KevinVermaTPC, right read on someone's blog discussion there is a procedure i don't know of yet21:26
lardmanwumpus: insmod: error inserting 'pvr.ko': -1 Invalid module format21:26
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wumpusinvalid format.. hmm, that's even worse than missing symbols, means the architecture is wrong21:27
lardmandrat!21:28
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lardmanas in arm vs armel?21:28
KevinVermaTPC, internet is mazing, all you need is search - this might do - http://www.virtualizationdaily.com/archives/73_how-to-convert-a-vmware-virtual-appliance-to-work-with-parallels.html21:28
KevinVermaamazing :)21:29
wumpusI think so21:29
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lardmanah, I stripped it, dmesg says "pvr: module has no symbols (stripped?)"21:30
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alteregoNot so sure about having to hold the stylus on the screen to stop menu's from closing ..21:30
gratz|homeHi all, followed instructions on pidgin.maemo.org but can't get libgnutls13 package to come up in package manager, searched on maemo hackers repo http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/dists/bora/main/binary-armel/Packages and there's libgnutls11 in there but that doesn't seem to come up in package manager either, any ideas?21:30
TPCis there a virtual machine for OS2008 SDK yet?21:30
TPCif so, could someone link me?21:31
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TPCfinal release that is, I can only find for the beta21:31
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X-FadeTPC: I just upgrade the beta one..21:31
lardmanssh is soooo slow, I wonder if this is the effect of super-duper power saving21:31
guardianevening21:31
X-Fadelardman: Check if it stays in 165000 mode..21:31
alteregoNot slow on my device.21:31
lardmanwumpus: With the unstripped version I get "pvr: version magic '2.6.14.7-omap2 ARMv6 gcc-3.4' should be '2.6.21-omap1 mod_unload ARMv6 '"21:32
gratz|homeforget that21:33
_Monkeygratz|home: I forgot that21:33
gratz|homeit doesn't come up in the list, just is a dep of pidgin21:33
gratz|homeand i pasted wrong link, wasn't the bora dist21:33
gratz|homecheers cya21:33
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wumpuslardman: that looks better21:34
qosbtw, how do i put something tpo repository.maemo.org/extras?21:34
lardmanwumpus: looks like modprobe has more ignore options21:35
lardmanis it possible to modprobe from a given file rather than letting it search?21:37
wumpusnot that I know, but yeah just copy it to /lib/modules/<kernel/drivers then21:38
lardmanhmm, isn't that mounted in the initfs, or can I just create the directory?21:39
wumpusI think you can just copy the file there, yes21:39
alteregoHmm .. Picasa only has 1G of storage.21:40
alteregoI suppose that's not _that_ bad ..21:40
wumpusthen do depmod -a and modprobe should find it21:40
lardmanhmm, no depmod21:40
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lardmanright, getting somewhere21:42
lardman./modprobe --force-vermagic pvr21:42
lardmanshort flood:21:42
lardman[30470.945312] pvr: no version magic, tainting kernel.21:42
lardman[30470.945312] pvr: Unknown symbol pci_bus_write_config_dword21:42
lardman[30470.945312] pvr: Unknown symbol pci_find_slot21:42
lardman[30470.945312] pvr: Unknown symbol __arch_copy_from_user21:42
lardman[30470.953125] pvr: Unknown symbol pci_bus_read_config_dword21:42
lardman[30470.953125] pvr: Unknown symbol __arch_copy_to_user21:42
X-Fadelardman: That doesn't look all that bad..21:43
lardmanno, vaguely hopeful21:43
X-FadeNo weird non_descriptive symbols.21:43
lardmananyway, got to go for a bit, if anyone has any thoughts please let me know, will read my backlog in a while21:44
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fysascrollbars are still too small.21:45
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wumpushm, seems it has no pci symbols21:48
ywwgwhat does maemo use for its GTK web browsing widget?  gtkmozembed?  gtkhtml? webkit?21:48
wumpuswhich makes sense as the device has no pci21:48
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lardmanwrap it and provide fake symbols?21:48
wumpusbut what to provide instead?21:48
alteregoywwg, the web browser or help system?21:49
lardmannot that I have any idea how to wrap a driver21:49
wumpuslooks like it will assume the device is on the pci bus21:49
ywwgalterego: I need to embed html in my application, so... I guess the web browser?21:49
alteregoThe web browser uses Gecko.21:49
alteregoIf you want to embed HTML in your app you should use GtkMozEmbed or gtkhtml21:49
lardmanwumpus: you think, it's not just that the kernel it was compiled for happens to have those symbols exported?21:49
alteregoMozEmbed isn't installed by default though.21:50
ywwgalterego: my app is python anyway, so there's a lot not installed by default :/21:50
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lardmanwumpus: or do modules only list symbols they use?21:50
alteregoywwg, I sure Python has gtkhtml bindings ..21:50
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ywwgalterego: yes I know.  I'm just trying to figure out what'll work best on the platform.21:51
wumpus