IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-11-12

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Sulisthere's an n810?00:01
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zeenixSulis: yes! welcome back to planet earth btw :)00:02
Sulisheh, you mean planet maemo00:03
Andy80no no... he means planet earth :)00:04
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maddlerAndy80: I'd say Conexant 311000:05
maddlerat least from dmesg output...00:06
Andy80maddler: dmesg?! uhm... how can you run a dmesg on a n810 right NOW :P ?00:06
maddlerehhh... who knows...00:07
SulisAndy80, i believe that planet maemo is more acurate, knowledge of the n810 is not widespread on planet earth :P00:08
Andy80Sulis: not for the moment :)00:09
pupnik400 just *sounds* so much faster than 33300:09
Andy80well... it will have a faster cpu, that's right00:10
maddlerpupnik: hehehe... sounds so...00:10
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pupnik looks like i'm not going to be getting pingus going fast for 770.  will concentrate on things that can run full speed now.00:14
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Jitenpupnik: I think I heard that ITOS2008 would run n800's processor at 400Mhz also. Has Nokia changes their minds?00:24
maddlerjiten... hmmm... kinda strange...00:25
maddlerI wouldn't trust...00:25
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Jitenit only runs 330 currently to conserve battery I heard.00:25
maddlernever heard about that...00:25
* Sho_ has heard some conflicting info on the CPU speed, too ..00:25
Jitenthere is a new system for powersaving that involves changing the frequency on the fly.00:26
maddleryes... slowing down CPU when not needed...00:26
maddlerbut it's kinda hard to believe nokia is going to overclock N800 CPU...00:26
* Jaffa hasn't heard anything conflicting about it. The N810 has the same processor as the N800. IT OS 2008 uses a more recent kernel with better power management and runs that processor at 400MHz maximum, with more intelligent speed throttling.00:26
Jitenit's not overclock, the chip is capable of 400Mhz00:27
maddlerdoh! :D00:27
maddlereven better then! :D00:27
Sho_Jaffa: Makes sense00:27
Jitenin fact, most of the time it's more downclock ;)00:28
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Jitenanyway, n800 is at quite affordable price currently :)00:29
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maddlerJiten: yep... 259 is a great price for it...00:29
maddlerTTL here...00:30
maddlergood night folks! :D00:30
* Jaffa is going to bed too00:30
* Jaffa wonders how long it'll be into next week before he's missing his N800 :-/00:34
* Jaffa gone.00:36
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bedboipupnik: yep it looks cool00:50
bedboioh, website is now really better00:50
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ywwgI'm on ubuntu gutsy and I installed scratchbox, and now I'm trying to install python-maemo, but dpkg-reconfigure is not installed.  how best to fix this?01:22
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timelyxmaddler: the key about the cpu clock01:39
timelyxis that there's a trade off01:39
timelyxyou can either run the cpu at full or the dsp at full, but not both01:39
timelyxyou can also choose to run both at less than full...01:40
timelyxhrm, to test bluetooth on my mac, i'd have to fimnd my bluetooth usb widget01:41
timelyxit's unfortunately very small, and my desktop is very messy01:41
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elbso, I can't sb-conf select another target, because scratchbox says I have a session running -- but I've killed everything, and it doesn't seem to matter01:45
elbwhat might I be missing?01:45
elb(killed everything in ps)01:45
timelyxl7: yes bluetooth file exchange does not seem to approve of my n80001:47
elb_|Nix|_: I no longer have an, either, but I did at one time01:48
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_|Nix|_elb: AFAIK only x86 targets have af-sb-init.sh01:49
elbwell ... I sb-conf select'd CHINOOK_ARMEL, then ran it, and it started01:49
elband it was slow, and there were qemu processes doing work, so I assumed it was working ;-)01:49
_|Nix|_... and did it show up in xephyr?01:50
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_|Nix|_I don't get it. I don't have an even after I just ran apt-get upgrade01:50
elbI can't even run apt-get upgrade ;-)01:51
elbor apt-get update,f or that matter01:51
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_|Nix|_elb: Right, because of that lock thing.01:51
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timelyx /hildon-initscripts-1.12/
timelyxdo you have that package?01:51
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_|Nix|_Wha ... ? Huh ? Me ?01:52
elbdpkg -l returns nothing, actually01:52
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_|Nix|_Do you know how to check what arch dpkg and apt think they're on?01:53
_|Nix|_I've found a combination of scratchbox parameters thar result in them thinking they're "arm" rather than "armel".01:53
_|Nix|_That might be it.01:53
elbI just sb-conf rs'd and it's better :-P01:54
elband I did *not* have hildon-initscripts -- installing it now01:54
timelyxtrying to paste to my mac gave me:01:55
timelyx1. Nothing to paste (info banner)01:55
timelyx2. (i) Operation failed01:55
elb"better" in that dpkg-l now lists some packages01:55
l7timelyx: hrm, that is too bad01:55
_|Nix|_elb: OK, good ... must've gotten rid of that lock issue.01:55
l7i wonder if bluetooth file exchange is a problem on apple's end, or nokia's01:56
elb_|Nix|_: I think the sb-conf rs just blew all that away01:56
timelyxl7: if someone reminds me tomorrow, i could bug a mac guy near connectivity01:56
timelyxor is it todya?01:56
l7i guess one could rsync, but it's not as elegant01:56
l7er, i dunno01:56
l7timelyx: well let me know what you discover :)01:57
timelyxsomeone would have to remind me01:57
_|Nix|_elb: What about DO you still have it?01:57
timelyxi have dozens of other headaches to deal w/01:57
l7i just saw a youtube video where someone mentioned they had the same problem with bluetooth file exchange01:58
l7hmm, where is it?01:58
elb_|Nix|_: I'll let you know when this install finishes01:59
_|Nix|_elb: OK. And I01:59
l7so i have a feeling the bluetooth problem is systemic unfortunately01:59
_|Nix|_'m setting up chinook-i38601:59
timelyxl7: do people have something against filing bugs in
timelyxoddly enough the connectivity people inform me they check there for bugs01:59
l7timelyx: i don't have a n800 yet01:59
l7just trying to do my homework before buying it02:00
l7i suppose i could still file a bug report, but i'm not sure it would be useful02:00
_|Nix|_elb: ... but I'm rapidly running out of consciousness, unfortunately ...02:00
elb_|Nix|_: all right, I should probably do some work, anyway02:01
elbif this works, I'll let you know02:01
_|Nix|_elb: Alright. Cool. I'll get Pidgin built and running on i386 ...02:02
_|Nix|_... Chinook.02:02
* timelyx grumbles02:02
timelyxthat's the second lame app that has an Exit menu item02:02
timelyxnot to mention the fact that it's a Status Bar applet!02:02
_|Nix|_timelyx: What, Pidgin?02:02
timelyxthe first being map02:03
shackan_|Nix|_: is piding ever going to do video?02:03
shackan*pidgin, sorry02:03
_|Nix|_No idea ...02:03
shackanupstream seems not to care02:04
elbshackan: if someone implements it, sure02:04
timelyxexpecting downstream to care is absolutely unreasonable02:04
timelyxwhere do you guys get off?02:04
shackanelb: heh02:04
elbthere are a lot of people willing to ask about it, but no one willing to implement it02:04
* timelyx grumbles and goes to bed02:04
elbthere seems to be a "those who can, don't care" problem with video02:05
timelyxthat assumes people can02:05
shackanwell, it's not rocket science02:05
timelyxit also assumes that everyone is idle02:06
elbit must be, because no one who asks about it ever does anything02:06
timelyxperhaps people who theoretically can practically speaking are busy working to earn money to pay for pizza so they (and their [potential] family) won't starve02:06
shackanwell, nokia could well do something02:07
_|Nix|_timelyx: If that were the situation of the majority, OSS would've collapsed a long time ago ...02:07
pupnikoss is all about caring02:07
shackanI mean, they popped a webcam in there, but no way to make calls with it02:07
timelyx_|Nix|_: the majority of oss is sponsored and hence directed02:07
timelyxit just happens that sponsors tend to have generally reasonable and useful interests02:08
_|Nix|_timelyx: ... and it got there, how?02:08
elbPidgin is just about entirely unsponsored02:08
elband directed only by its developers02:08
elb... none of whom have a web cam, or at least want to use one to voice chat02:08
timelyx_|Nix|_: *shrug*, mozilla has always been sponsored02:08
timelyxnetbeans was always sponsored02:09
timelyxopenoffice was always sponsored02:09
timelyxeclipse was always sponsored02:09
pupnikgood points02:09
timelyxred hat  was always sponsored02:09
timelyxubuntu was always sponsored02:09
danielstimelyx: none of the first four projects you mention have a remotely viablecommunity02:09
timelyxdaniels: is maemo a viable community?02:09
shackanelb: okay, but since nokia designed a webcam for the device, it's assumed there has to be a way to use it other than taking small blurred pictures when you're bored02:09
danielsthe fifth has a passable one, the sixth is very similar to maemo, community-wise, but with more contributions, admittedly02:09
danielstimelyx: no.02:09
timelyxqt was always sponsored02:10
shackanhi daniels02:10
danielsyes, and it has no community contributors.02:10
timelyx(although i suppose calling qt a community is questionable)02:10
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danielsshackan: hi02:10
_Monkeywhat's up, daniels02:10
* timelyx kicks _matthia1_02:10
* timelyx kicks _Monkey02:10
pupnikthanks for all the help, daniels02:10
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elband, of all those projects, the only ones I use are moz and Ubuntu ;-)02:11
danielspupnik: i hope you don't mean in this channel :)02:11
pupnikno, mailing list02:11
timelyxi'm not really sure what people would say about gcc02:11
timelyxpractically speaking, at this point, it's sponsored02:11
timelyxbut i don't really want to play that game, the same applies for the kernel today02:12
timelyxas for gnu, fsf is a sponsor, it might not sponsor many people, but it does technically sponsor at least 2 (iirc 4?)02:12
danielspupnik: ah, np.  i'm not subscribed these days, but feel free to email me directly on anything related to x or the display/video.02:13
timelyxbut sure, for some amorphous definition of gnu ...02:13
timelyxcygwin/cygnus are another set of sponsoreds02:13
pupnikmy issues are all resolved (pixel doubling headaches)02:13
danielstimelyx: it's not about who pays it, it's about the development style.  the kernel may be purely corporate, but it's such a diverse range of interests as to not matter, and it's a brutally open source development style.02:13
danielspupnik: ah, sweet.02:13
danielspupnik: moz doesn't seem to have ever had anything remotely resembling an open source/community development style.02:14
danielss/pupnik/timelyx/, sorry02:14
shackanroar, scratchbox is killing me02:14
danielsi mean, either you work for netscape/mozilla corporation, or you're irrelevant.02:14
timelyxbah, don't you have work tomorrow?02:14
timelyxthat's untrue02:14
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timelyxa large portion of the contributors don't work for moco (or its ancestors)02:15
pupnikmost small-time open source projects are unsponsored and driven by idealism and 'want this to happen'-ness02:15
* timelyx can't remember the last time it was 50%02:15
timelyxpupnik: and most die or fade away02:15
pupnikso, 90% of business ventures fail in the first year or two02:15
danielstimelyx: indeed, i do have work tomorrow.02:16
shackanso, I'm running a make file, is makes some object files, but those files are NOT MADE, even if the rule appears to be executed! but if I copy and paste the command from the terminal, the object file is there! please please I've tried for a week to get this damn thing to build02:16
_|Nix|_Where's the Chinook i386 rootstrap?02:16
elb_|Nix|_: something is broken, but it ran02:16
danielstimelyx: well, from my outsider's perspective, i've seen moco seeing volunteers as free work, and that's incredibly depressing, regardless of who does it.02:16
elb(it uses a standard Gtk theme, looks like)02:16
_|Nix|_elb: Aaaah, OK ...02:16
timelyxdaniels: i've never worked for nscp/moco02:16
danielsshackan: if you haven't declared your dependencies, your rule might not ever get executed02:16
timelyxand i've never felt my work was abused by them02:16
danielstimelyx: indeed, but have you ever attempted to steer core browser issues?02:16
timelyxi do02:17
timelyxand have for years02:17
_|Nix|_elb: Can you check which package provides
danielstimelyx: no disrespect to bz, but it's not exactlymoco's core business02:17
pupnikshackan: it's hard to understand what is wrong by your description02:17
elb_|Nix|_: osso-af-sb-startup02:17
_Monkeywell, osso-af-sb-startup is the package02:17
timelyxmost of my life in mozilla hasn't been bugzilla developing02:17
timelyxthat's a recent thing02:17
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timelyxmostly i was core and other webtools02:17
danielstimelyx: okay, i had a somewhatmistaken impression then; apologies02:17
daniels(god, this broken spacebar is getting old)02:17
timelyxi avoided bugzilla because i didn't want to learn sql02:17
shackandaniels, pupnik: I didn't write the makefiles, and outside of sb it builds correctly (it's the llvm compiler btw)02:18
timelyxdaniels: heh, it replaced my t key on firday02:18
timelyxdaniels: the problem is that you don't realize just how varied my interests are02:18
zerojaytimelyx: It's about time. ;)02:18
timelyxyeah yeah02:18
danielstimelyx: i've been avoiding bugzilla because it'sbugzilla.  hopefully (and i'm told it is) 3.0 is orders of magnitudebetter.02:18
timelyxi'm credited in webkit for work in gecko core that hyatt lifted02:18
daniels'lifted' is a harsh word02:19
* timelyx shrugs02:19
zerojayI'm working to push bugzilla 3.0 at work.02:19
timelyxhe copied it and credited the people who touched the file02:19
_|Nix|_elb: start doesn't work for me. I get things like "qemu: Unsupported syscall: 307"02:19
timelyxi'm not calling it theft02:19
shackanpupnik , daniels: it is hard to understand for me too, 'make' appears to work correctly, but the files it's supposed to be building are not there (of course it complains when it tries to link them)02:19
elb_|Nix|_: I got a TON of errors, but it ran and splatted up an (ugly) desktop02:19
danielstimelyx: sounds like he's following the licenceconditions exactly?02:20
_|Nix|_elb: Not for me ... I'll check the target params.02:20
danielswell, in that case, implying theft when he was merely following your wishes, seems a little harsh ...02:20
elbnothing can connect to dbus02:20
pupnikshackan: maybe it is a problem with your specific package - try compiling a known good app02:20
elblooks like02:20
timelyxi didn't mean to imply theft02:20
timelyxdo you have a better word?02:20
daniels'used'? :)02:20
* timelyx shrugs02:21
danielspossibly just a dialect issue, but lifted for me is stolen02:21
elband it's crying about my UID02:21
timelyxusing code doesn't give the right meaning in my mind02:21
timelyxto me, you use something once and discard it02:21
timelyxthat's not what's happening here02:21
shackanpupnik: it is a problem with this package only, but I have no idea why the object files are not actually produced02:21
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timelyxdaniels: fwiw, i wasn't hired to work on osso's browser because i'm a bugzilla hacker...02:22
shackantimelyx: I fail to see the conflict02:23
elb"lifted" means stolen to me in the sense of physical property, but in the sense of code it means "taken out of one context to be used in another"02:23
timelyxshackan: local external perspective bug02:24
timelyxdaniels's thinks i'm an ignored bugzilla developer02:24
timelyxbecause i know something about bugzilla02:24
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zerojayOh, is that what's going on here?02:24
danielstimelyx: nor i x because i'm also an fd.o admin, but remember that a lot of people are hired merely because i have a degree, not because they've participated in projects for years and haveknowledge02:24
timelyxbut that's not really me, i'm a gecko developer first, and a webtool developer later02:24
danielstimelyx: sigh, that's not really what i'm saying and you knowit02:25
danielsi guess i do have work tomorrow02:25
daniels-> bed02:25
timelyxi said that >30mins ago :)02:25
* timelyx really has no idea what point daniels's is trying to make02:25
zerojayMaemo isn't a viable community? Mmkay.02:25
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timelyxpersonally, i assume that some sizable portion of people nokia hired were hired for specific skill sets02:26
timelyxespecially if they were relocated02:26
timelyxotherwise, why not pick random people?02:26
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_|Nix|_Boy! I have to install hildon-desktop by hand? Weird!02:46
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zerojayGreasemonkey addon for Microb was just updated.02:54
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edistarquick question, is there a way to set the n770 as an AP? so as to let other wifi devices log in on the 770?03:04
_|Nix|_You gotta love it when a script says "Everything seems to be ok." :o)03:06
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_|Nix|_Reeks of famous last words :o)03:06
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moofoohello, i just installed scratchbox and the chinook sdk, added the extras repo and installed python2.5-runtime. when i try to run the example, i get "D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory". is there a way to fix this?03:11
pupnikintel = evil03:11
pupnikdunno moofoo - maybe you have to start some dbus service / hal thingy03:12
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moofooatleast " start" claimed it started dbus.. .and /etc/init.d/dbus does not seem to do anything .. :-(03:17
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moofooand a "/usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system" is actually running.. mh03:18
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ScreamingN800Anyone tried downloading the N810 flash image and trying it on an N800 yet? Its a different version to the bugfix 2007 image - ergo it must be 2008. And supposedly 2008 is identical for N800 and N810. Or am I deluding myself?03:19
astro76ScreamingN800, it's not out yet, but yes apparently it will be identical for both03:20
moofooah it looks as i have to set the environment variable that dbus-launch prints... hmm03:20
moofoo(as in DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS)03:21
moofooanother question: does the sdk only contain "Contact" and "Help" as applications or are the apps that supposed to be on the device missing because the 2008 release is not out yet?03:22
pupnikthe sdk for the 770 did not include several apps03:26
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pupnikinstall what you need from a repository03:26
elb_|Nix|_: as long as you're still up ... do you have a desktop starting?03:27
elb_|Nix|_: and, if so, is it as ugly as mine?  ;-)03:27
_|Nix|_elb: I'm running the installer script right now.03:27
_|Nix|_elb: I couldn't reproduct whatever it does by hand.03:27
moofoopupnik: what can i install from the repos? it seems i have installed everything with maemo or hildon in it..03:27
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moofooor am i missing additional repositories i have to add?03:27
_|Nix|_I think I'm'na get rid of the chinook targets I made myself and keep the ones it generates.03:28
_|Nix|_Assuming they're any good.03:28
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_|Nix|_OK. I'm'na call it. I gotta force myself to sleep ...03:29
elbI don't seem to have hildon-libs.pc03:29
_|Nix|_elb: Nor should you. You should have hildon-1.pc03:29
_|Nix|_elb: hildon-libs is deprecated.03:29
elbso this example is probably too old03:30
_|Nix|_elb: I have hildon-libs in Pidgin because I also support Gregale.03:30
ScreamingN800So I AM gonna be the first with 2008 on my N800 ;-)  In fact it looks like you need a real N810 id  to get it -anyone with an N810 gonna sneak me one so I can give it a shot-I promise I won't tell Nokia.03:30
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moofoomh python still seems broken in the sdk (or dbus or what ever)... if i start a (hildon) python application it shows up with the default ugly gtk theme and afterwards dbus is totally broken and i can't even launch the "Contacts" application anymore..03:42
elb_|Nix|_: running 'adduser' for my user and uid made the theme work03:44
ScreamingN800I guess that´s a "No" then. Either that or 226 lurkers are scurrying off trying to get 2008 ahead of me ;-(03:46
pupnikcongrats ScreamingN80003:50
ScreamingN800NOT getting ahead of the game I get congrats?03:52
shackanScreamingN800: you really can't wait?03:52
ScreamingN800I''m like dying over here, aren't you? 400Mhz lower battery consumption, decent browser..need I go on?03:54
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ScreamingN800On another tack, am I the only one with big probs getting stuff from big tar's onto the MMC cards. Mine dies all the time.03:57
derfI've had problems with _any_ large amount of I/O on the MMC.04:06
hircusderf: MMC, as opposed to SD or SDHC?04:07
ScreamingN800I've been trying to figure it out and I reckon the only logical place is misplaced spinlock in the mmc driver. I have some rather in-conclusive tests that suggest the driver goes into a non-responsive state when it gets hit by  large quantities of data. Anyone got any other suggestions? I could file a lone bugzilla but soome other peoples experiences might help me frame it so the poor devs can actually find the problem. Xactly derf - tar is04:07
ScreamingN800Just a minute let me see what I've got.04:07
hircusScreamingN800: what was that you said earlier about N810 images? I missed the context, wasn't here04:08
ScreamingN800TakeMS SD card 155x04:09
ScreamingN800hircus: Wondering if we could snarf the flash image for the N810 and use it on N800.04:10
hircusScreamingN800: ah ok. I thought you found a source already04:11
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hircusthat'd be interesting. it should work, more or less, unless the flasher is configured to sniff the device type04:12
ScreamingN800I reckon the write rate to the MMC card is abysmal, far less than the read rate which suggests my thoughts abotvspinlocks may becright particularly since it just seems to stop dead when writing.04:14
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FMz_Anyone know if there is a cron daemon compiled for the n800?04:15
ScreamingN800hircus: like I said, I (we <grin>) just need an illicit N810 code. I tried my N800 - no joy.04:15
hircusScreamingN800: count me out -- sold my N800 already :) can't wait for the launch date04:16
ScreamingN800s/becright/be  right04:16
hircusanyone here thinking of doing Release Parties? like the ones Mozilla and GNOME user groups sometimes do04:17
ScreamingN800s/abotvspinlocks/about spinlocks04:17
hircusif we can get Nokia to release press kits, with videos, brochures etc.04:18
ScreamingN800hircus: I vote for virtual beer - lots of it!04:18
hircusScreamingN800: haha :)04:18
hircusspeaking of which, how many open source beers are there right now? I've seen mention of two, one European and one American04:19
ScreamingN800free as in?04:19
hircusem? I said open source -- the exact brewing recipe is available for experimentation04:20
FMz_How does one send Escape in osso-xterm?04:20
hircusFMz_: the back key, I think04:21
FMz_Hrmm.. nope :(04:21
ScreamingN800Curly arrow, 2 up from the little house, works for me04:23
FMz_:) thanks.... just found it :04:24
l7hircus: you sold your n800 to buy the n810?04:24
zerojayl7: I'm doing the same.04:25
l7zerojay: hmm, why?04:25
zerojayLike I said, to get the N810.04:25
l7need for the brighter screen / keyboard  or GPS?04:25
ScreamingN800Hey you guys! THE SHIPS NOT  SINKING!04:26
zerojayI do a heavy amount of chatting.. and with the N800, I'm far too passive because of being forced to use the touchscreen.04:26
zerojayMy screen's getting wear from tapping on the virtual keyboard keys.04:26
l7i'm just curious what features about the n810 are the most voluable to people04:26
hircusl7: yes. you can get a good price from international buyers (Eastern Europe or Asia), since they don't have access to the recent price cuts anyway04:26
l7zerojay: even witha  screen  protector?04:26
zerojayl7: What screen protector?04:27
_Monkeyi heard screen protector was yah thick and the credit card was able to work it out04:27
l7hircus: ah, where can you sell your n800 internationally?04:27
hircusthe keyboard, the transflective screen ..04:27
hircusl7: eBay04:27
l7zerojay: those transparent, flexible screen protectors?04:27
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hircussold my 770 to a Malaysian, and 800 to a Ukrainian, both for about the same price -- $250 before shipping04:27
zerojayAbout the only things I don't like about the N810 is the fact that the camera doesn't rotate and the one less card slot.04:27
zerojayl7: I don't have one.04:28
ScreamingN800Ooooh you just reminded me. The only reason I would get the N810 is the screen. CAN I SEND MY N800 BACK and get one fitted????? Please, pretty please.04:28
l7zerojay: did you avoid getting one because they make operation more difficult?04:28
hircusI normally carry a pocket camera anyway, but yes, being able to reverse the camera, or even just change its tilt angle, would have been nice04:28
zerojayl7: No, I didn't purposely avoid them.. I just didn't get one.04:28
l7hircus: geez, that's a pretty good price04:28
l7zerojay: ah for what reason?04:29
zerojayl7: Didn't feel the need.04:29
pupnikhow is the 810 screen better than the 800?04:29
zerojaypupnik: It's glass and transflective.04:29
hircusl7: I was surprised myself, yes. my first N800 auction even got to > $300, but a Nigerian scammer got in at the end, bah. it got cancelled04:29
hircuspupnik: 20% brighter and transflexive04:29
l7pupnik: it's brighter, if you need to use it outdoors in sun04:29
hircuszerojay: ah, it's actually glass? neat04:29
zerojayhircus: Supposedly.04:29
hircusl7: I included a case and two memory cards as well, which helps04:30
pupniki thought transflective was a myth04:30
l7hircus: ah, how did you find out he was a scammer?04:30
zerojaySo on the N810, I wouldn't have the screen wearing out thanks to the virtual keyboard.. but it won't matter because I won't use it much now anyways.04:30
hircusl7: ebay cancelled the auction, and then he sent me a fake Paypal payment receipt04:30
pupnikso in sunlight, there is no backlight active on the N810?04:30
zerojaypupnik: The screen adjusts.04:30
pupnikdoes 'transflective' mean that in sunlight the screen uses incoming sunlight instead of a backlight?04:31
hircusthus the light sensor :). I love how the keyboard is backlit as well -- the kind of feature that on full-sized laptop, I've only seen on Macbook Pros04:31
hircuspupnik: yup. the reviews from people who have the device all said it's transflective, so hopefuly they're not all wrong04:32
l7mmm, backlight04:32
pupnikI have never seen a transflective screen.  If this is possible it means that battery usage is very low in sunlight?04:33
hircuspupnik: nice, yes? whereas it's the opposite with most other LCD screens04:33
ScreamingN800Another by-the-way I used the thin plastic film you use for bookcovers as a screen-protector. €2 gets you enough for about 100 years.04:33
hircusI've only heard of a NEC laptop with trans LCD, but I'd think a lot of toughened laptops have it too04:34
pupnikthen this screen makes the n810 useful in many situations where the n800 is not04:34
hircuswould be nice if Nokia would give the option to buy the device with screen protectors pre-installed ..04:34
hircus.. for people with clumsy fingers like yours truly04:35
l7pupnik: i hear some GPS units use a transflexive screen04:35
pupniki think nokia is a hero for making linux handhelds04:36
pupniklike sharp was04:36
pupniklets all make them sell04:37
ScreamingN800Here here.. Sharp were, but eventually chickened out.04:37
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hircusI'd second that too. once the Modest client is out, and we get better contacts management and syncing, it'd be brilliant04:38
l7i think sharp still sells some of those pda in japan04:38
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ScreamingN800I loved my zaurus to death-literally-it fell apart.04:38
pupniki have persuaded a few people to buy n800s04:38
ScreamingN800n800 is way better, cept the screen. youncould read the z in daylight.04:39
l7it seems sony was using transflexive screens in it's PDAs as early as 200204:40
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hircusl7: ah. pity those did not work out too, the Cliés were way better than the Palms of the time04:40
l7hircus: i guess so, i never liked Sony's premium pricing strategies and proprietary nature04:41
l7hurrah for Nokia :)04:41
hircusl7: ah yes, though the PDAs are too small to take a memory stick, thankfully :P04:42
FMz_Does anybody have any suggestions as to the best way to automatically download a podcast to my n800 each day?04:42
hircusI bought the 770 just for the screen, actually04:42
l7don't get me started on memory sticks! >:)04:42
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hircusafter all those laptop manufacturers moving to glossy just because that's the only thing they can get from LCD makers04:42
hircus.. we get this beautiful bright (well, not relative to N800 and N810 but still), super-sharp screen04:42
l7FMz_: maybe download it to your PC and automatically sync?04:43
l7depends on how often you use your PC though04:43
hircusFMz_: or if you have wi-fi, some of the multimedia players do podcasts, I think04:43
hircusUKMP or Kagu?04:43
FMz_Well, I want to do it wirelessly... I want to ultimately be able to leave my Nokia in the car in the garage (have it charge in there).  I spend a lot of time in the car and don't want to bother moving the charger from place to place.04:44
FMz_Canola does podcasts, but it doesn't automatically download the file... it just streams when you start it.04:44
FMz_Which is less than desirable when on the road ;)04:45
hircusFMz_: ah, I forgot -- gPodder (which I use on my Linux desktop) has a Maemo port as well04:46
FMz_And that downloads them on a schedule?04:46
hircusit's quite good, though there's one feature missing -- you can tell it to remove a podcast episode, but not to remove it but maintain the link so you can redownload04:46
l7itunes has that failing too04:47
hircusFMz_: um, that's still missing04:47
hircusl7: though the gpodder author is more responsive to feedbacks :)04:47
hircusFMz_: ah, checking the desktop version and it does not seem to have it. there's an option to download on startup04:48
hircus.. so you can script it if you want, with cron. send a SIGTERM signal to terminate the application and then restart it every day04:48
FMz_Hmm... I wonder how a PHP "daemon" (i.e. constantly running PHP script with 10 minute delays) would work04:48
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l7hircus: yeah i try to avoid itunes04:50
l7not entirely possible on a mac though04:50
ScreamingN800hircus I thought we didnt have a cron for thre n80004:50
hircusl7: really, how so?04:50
l7cnet is rather harsh towards the GPS kit04:50
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hircusI mean, Finder now has CoverFlow, but as I understand it it's just a library shared by iTunes and Finder04:51
hircusScreamingN800: you can install it, though04:51
hircusjust go to red pill mode04:51
hircuswould be nice to have a cron editor, but not that hard to read the config files anyway04:51
l7hircus: well having your music and photos and itunes and iphoto makes things more convenient in some ways04:52
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hircusl7: ah yes, there's that04:52
l7i've been wanting to find an open alternative though04:53
l7can you sync your music easily with an open source itunes clone to the n800?04:53
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l7i don't mind copy paste, but sometimes i get too lazy04:54
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hircusl7: on Linux, with Rhythmbox you can04:55
hircusit can treat any removable storage as a portable music collection, and sync to that -- even with transcoding04:56
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hircusso you can keep your music on the desktop in lossless format and transcode on the fly for the device04:56
hircusyou don't get integrated play count and rating though04:56
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l7hircus: hrm, keeping everything in loseless is a cool feature...04:57
l7if i get a n800 though , i might have to migrate my desktop to linux...04:57
hircusl7: I'd welcome you to the club, but .. why?04:58
l7or i could get an ipod  touch and stick with apple gear...04:58
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hircusah, the integration thing04:59
l7yeah exactly :)04:59
hircusyou can run Rhythmbox on a Mac. it'd just look out of place04:59
hircusor use the KDE program, err.. what's it called04:59
hircusKDE 4 can run natively on a Mac05:00
l7yeah i dunno you can do more on an n800 though05:00
l7how fast is the n800's browser by the way?05:00
hircusquite fast on most sites, as long as it's not flash-heavy05:01
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l7i tried it out in the nokia store and for some reason the browser lagged horribly05:01
l7how many windows can you have open at the same time before it starts to bog down?05:02
ScreamingN800hircus: not according to #maemo as of 10 Nov. General Antilles and zoran. You know some repo with  it?05:02
l7it might have just been a lslow connection at t with the store's wifi05:02
hircusScreamingN800: ah, maybe it's just my perspective as a long-time Linux user05:02
hircusI avoid like plague sites that are not standards-compliant :)05:03
l7even wikipedia was really slow05:03
hircusl7: the standard install comes with the Opera browser. I switched to MicroB which will be default in OS 200805:03
hircusthat might be it too. Wikipedia was decent on both browsers I tested05:03
l7i suspect their wifi...05:03
hircusheh, you guys haven't seen my university's public wifi05:04
ScreamingN800hircus Same perspective..thas why I'm missing it.05:04
hircusa few years ago, voted #1 campus wifi by Intel. it's an equal opportunity hater -- Mac, Windows and Linux clients all have problems with it05:05
FMz_OK, I've figured it out.  I have my server pull down the podcasts as usual, rename them to include the date.  Install PHP and wget on the n800, and create a php script to run scp and pull down any files from my server with the date in the filename.  Then, each morning before I leave for work (pending a n800 cron install), and it will pull everything down for that day.05:06
hircusFMz_: why not have your server push to the N800? then you don't need any additional software05:08
l7hrm, that's a cool idea05:08
hircusFMz_: oh, you might want to install rsync05:08
hircusor unison -- is unison ported?05:08
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FMz_hircus: Mainly because I can't set a static IP on the n800, so my server wouldn't know what to push to.05:08
lcddpulling works better in theory since the tablet is not always reachable05:09
pupniki used unison to do incremental backups of a company server05:09
pupnikit was convenient05:09
hircusFMz_: what router do you use?05:09
hircusmost let you do static DHCP assignments, so your N800 always get the same IP05:09
FMz_Crappy ISP provided... only problem with that is, the network doesn't belong to me, and my roommate is a net-nazi / BOFH.05:10
hircusFMz_: I feel your pain then. ugh05:10
FMz_I think my plan might work, provided I can get PHP to scp the files.05:10
hircusI have a nice flatmate, but took me a while to get him to accept that if he set his Bittorrent upload speed too high, it screws up the router05:10
hircusFMz_: just use bash scripts if all you want is to pull files05:11
FMz_I'm not too good at bash scripts...05:11
hircushow about Python?05:11
_MonkeyPython is at!05:11
FMz_lol, same for Python, never used it.05:11
hircusPHP is an awfully-designed language -- even Python would complain if you use an undeclared variable05:12
hircusPHP would just silently assign it a default value05:12
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hircusso y = x + 42 <-- result is 42 since the undeclared x is used as an integer05:12
FMz_I'm fine with that hircus... :)  As long as I know it will do it.  PHP still complains tho... just sends a warning, no fatal.05:12
pupnikdamn hallucinations05:13
FMz_I use @$undeclaredvar a lot.05:13
FMz_Meh, as long as it's accounted for and I know what's going on with it, it's fine.05:13
hircusto each his own :) I have a personal allergy to languages with funny behaviors and $@# variable types .. Perl and PHP05:13
FMz_$a = (@$a == '') ? '1' : $a;05:14
FMz_^ if $a is undeclared, I declare it without throwing any errors...05:14
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rubiksis the a usb to mini usb converter?05:15
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hircusFMz_: that is neat. I know people who know their way around Perl and PHP, it's just that I'd be less comfortable with reusing someone else's library05:18
rubiksHow would I connect a flash drive to my n800?05:18
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hircusFMz_: if 'a' not in dir(): a = 105:20
hircusrubiks: not sure you can do that with N800 -- it's not supposed to have USB on-the-go support05:21
rubikso ok05:21
FMz_ o_O I don't get it hircus...05:21
rubiksso what is the cable that came with the nokia?05:22
hircusFMz_: Python to do the same thing you did05:22
rubiksminiusb with usb?05:22
FMz_Ahh... :)  Shows how little I know about Py :P05:23
hircusrubiks: lets you connect your N800 to your PC05:23
hircusand make it act like a mass-storage device05:23
hircusFMz_: it's a neat language to learn -- almost as good for, say, string processing as Perl, and you can use techniques from more theoretical functional languages05:24
hircus(well, not in an optimized way, but still, possible)05:24
FMz_If I were to learn a language, I think I'd have to go back to good ol05:25
FMz_ol' C...05:25
rubiksfor what? power?05:26
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FMz_I looked into Ruby... but...  Meh, if I'm going to put the time into learning a language, I may as well use what I already know, and get the most functionality.05:26
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hircusFMz_: uh, do yourself a favour and at least learn C++ rather than plain C :)05:26
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FMz_Hmm... not so much processing efficiency "power"... but raw ability.05:26
FMz_I learned C and C++ around the ages of 13 and 14, I just forgot most of it.05:27
FMz_Used to program shareware with my father... heh05:28
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zerojayFMz_: Er.. is there a reason you aren't using video center for your podcast downloading?05:46
tuxthepenguinHi all, I've run into a snag trying to setup maemo SDK 3.1 so I can then upgrade it to 3.205:46
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FMz_zerojay: Does it download them automatically?05:48
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zerojayIt shows you when new shows are available. One tap and you've got it.05:48
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tuxthepenguinscratchbox is in, maemo SDK install script ran successfully and recommended I do fakeroot apt-get install of maemo-explicit on each of the two scratchbox configs (SDK_ARMEL and X86). The X86 one went without a hitch but the SDK_ARMEL one is giving me errors about various packages including some configuration errors. The first error appearing seems to be: Updating the IM modules list for GTK+-2.4.0.../usr/sbin/up05:49
FMz_Wow... sounds perfect...  Where do I download it?05:49
zerojayDespite the name, it works for audio podcasts too.05:49
zerojayI believe it's http://videocenter.garage.maemo.org05:49
FMz_Cool, taking a look05:50
zerojay <-- some simple one click installs for certain podcasts for video center... just a database at the moment, ignore the look of it.05:50
FMz_I'm digging the idea of this... did you have anything to do with the dev?05:51
zerojayNo, but the Video Center one click installs thing is mine.05:52
FMz_Awesome.. thanks man :)05:52
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zerojayPart of a set of services I'm going to offer to tablet users... including Jabber (with AIM, MSN, others).. and whatever else people want.05:52
zerojayJust starting now.. Jabber server is up and available for anyone interested.05:53
Luriasigh, i wish rtcomm supported aim, yahoo, etc. i don't like transports and i don't like running pidgin.05:54
zerojayTransports are fine.05:54
zerojaySet it up once and forget it.05:54
zerojayI don't like running pidgin either.05:54
Luriaof course, responding to an incoming chat takes way too long.05:55
zerojayIt's a little slow, sure.. not Jabber's fault though.05:55
zerojayProbably won't be there anymore on IT2008.05:55
Luriano, complaining about rtcomm05:56
zerojayThe extra speed in the IT2008 update combined with some fixes.. we might see that weird delay disappear completely.05:56
FMz_Can't find how to add my podcast feed to it =/05:56
zerojayFMz_: Add your podcast feed to.. the video center program or my site?05:57
FMz_The program.... there doesn't seem to be an option.  Or I'm an idiot.. heh05:57
zerojayApplication menu while in initial screen (new videos/saved videos) -> Tools -> Services05:58
zerojayFMz_: If you want me to make it easier for ya, just give me the URL to your podcast.05:58
zerojayI'll add it to the database. :)05:58
zerojayOnce it's added, one click, it's in.05:59
FMz_    <<  Adam Curry's Daily Source Code...  I have no idea how the hell I missed the menu option.. lol05:59
Luriai don't like transports cause 1)i already have accounts everywhere and thus everyone would have to readd me. 2)i already have 3 jabber accounts and 3)two of my email accounts already map to jabber accounts(gmail and dreamhost). more adds more confusion.05:59
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zerojayLuria: No, they don't.06:00
zerojayOh, and the Dreamhost Jabber server blows.06:00
Luriathey don't in resposw to what?06:00
zerojayIf you've got people on AIM/MSN and others.. they don't have to be readded if you use transports (that's something that happens on Dreamhost though).06:01
zerojayI was going to use the Dreamhost server for hosting Jabber, but it's horrid.06:01
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FMz_zerojay: Kudos, this program rocks... I love it already.06:01
Luriano kidding, but it maps to my imap account which is . you can understand why i'd be reluctant to give that up.06:02
zerojayNo, not really.06:02
Luriaps i'm slow on the n800 thumb board.06:02
zerojayThat's fine. :)06:02
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zerojayFMz_: Didn't forget about you, hang on. ;)06:02
zerojayFMz_: I've got an RSS feed for the database so that when new shows are added, you can also add it directly from the RSS feed reader.06:03
Luriayou don't understand why having an account that maps isomorphically to my full name isn't of value ?06:03
zerojayLuria: Not when the server it's hosted on is as bad as the Dreamhost server is.06:04
tuxthepenguinAny maemo devlopers here? Any ideas on the problem I described?06:04
Luriaps, does anyone  else use mauku ?06:04
zerojayLuria: I am.06:04
Luriawhat do you think?06:04
FMz_zerojay: I found it, no worries... but more people need to listen to the DSC anyway ;)06:05
FMz_Thanks again man, this is perfect.06:05
Luriayes, it's a cheap host, but sufficient for a vanity/personal online storage.06:05
zerojayLuria: I like it, but the most recent version is giving me problems where it runs away with my CPU use.06:05
Luriathe one thing that is really unique about jaiku - the insertion and merging of rss feeds - doesn't work.06:07
zerojayUm.. works for me.06:07
Luriacan't see the source of the rss post, the content beyond the title, or click a link to actually read what it's all about06:08
zerojayIn Mauku, perhaps.06:08
Luriathat's not working.06:08
zerojayI know you can definitely do that on the site.06:08
zerojayFMz_: Well, if you haven't added it already, it's in the DB now.06:09
Luriaof course. that's why i asked about mauku06:09
FMz_Awesome... thanks man.06:09
zerojayI think Mauku broke someting recently.. most of the time, I'm able to click on an RSS feed and it takes me to the Jaiku site.. but that doesn't seem to work anymore.06:10
FMz_I just added the Dawn and Drew show, also.  Highly recommended.06:10
Luriayeah, i thought it used to do that. then i thought i was imagining it.06:11
zerojayNo, it did.06:11
zerojayNot sure what happened.06:11
FMz_This is perfect zerojay... wow, exactly what I needed.  Everyone download it!06:12
zerojayFMz_: The video stuff isn't perfect. Some feeds only work in Media player if streamed.. some if downloaded, some only in Mplayer, etc...06:12
Luriaare you zerojay on jaiku too? i'll add you.06:12
zerojayI tried to mark those with the video icons in the DB.. I'm mainly trying to add stuff that works.06:13
zerojayLuria: Sure.06:13
zerojay<--- on Jaiku06:13
FMz_Does Mplayer play mp4s?06:14
Luriathere you are :-)06:14
Lurianot if you are trying to play that itt 810 video.06:15
zerojayFMz_: Dawn And Drew added.06:15
Luriai thought that was a bit ironic.06:15
FMz_You're a star zerojay :)06:15
FMz_  << won't play06:16
FMz_But, that's not your fault... downloading Mplayer to try it now06:16
zerojayTry it with mplayer.. and set Video Center to use External Player.06:16
Luriai'm on my n800. ill give it a shot.06:18
FMz_Cool :)06:18
FMz_I might try Kagu too, if Mplayer does't work.06:19
Luriano go06:20
zerojayMight be too high a bitrate or resolution or something.06:21
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FMz_Possibly.  No big deal, really.  I mainly want the podcasts anyway.06:22
Luriai can paste the output, but it's a lot06:22
Luriaor not.06:27
Luriai can paste the mplayer output, if youd like06:28
FMz_To be honest, I wouldn't have the first clue as to what to do with it... heh =/06:29
Luriabut it doesn't seem to like the video stream.06:29
FMz_Thanks for the offer though :)06:30
Luria np06:30
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FMz_zerojay: Something you might want to put in the ear of the Media Center devs... a "mark all as read" button :)06:51
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zerojayFMz_: You mean like the one in the application menu? ;)07:03
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FMz_Now that one I really can't find :P07:09
zerojayThere's three different views in the program.07:09
zerojayOne split in the middle.07:09
zerojaywait, hang on07:10
FMz_Wow... I swear, this stuff just starts working when you say something about it.07:10
zerojayClick on Internet Videos. Once you are there, you can open the application menu and find it under File.07:11
zerojayMark as watched.07:11
FMz_Got it, awesome, thanks :)07:11
zerojayIf you highlight the show and not just a particular episode, it will mark all of that show as watched.07:11
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FMz_K, too much excitement for me... bedtime.  Thanks again for all the help zerojay.  Enjoy :)07:21
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zerojayFMz_: Same here. Later.07:25
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SyntraHey guys08:07
SyntraIs it possible to put the N800 into USB Host mode?08:07
SyntraI've seen it done on the 77008:07
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kulveit's possible. Search the mailing list08:34
kulveI'm not sure how easy though08:35
kulveSyntra: this thread I think:
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SyntraI would like to know that its fully working before buying anything, though08:37
SyntraI wanna get a USB keyboard, by the way.08:37
kulveIt's probably not "fully working"..08:37
kulvelike the thread title says, "experimental"08:38
kulvewhy not bt keybaord?08:39
SyntraLack of Money.08:39
kulveoh, the same old. :)08:39
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SyntraI found like these Dell Bluetooth keyboards on eBay for like 30$, but I've yet to find out if there HID or anything08:40
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doc|homedoes ekiga work on the n800?10:09
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doc|homeseems it does10:18
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JaffaMorning, all10:45
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DRoBeRGood morning.10:58
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timelyxbad morning11:04
timelyxcould someone please help me?11:04
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hhedbergI bet you can save me a lot of time: How does osso-contact-plugin (in navigator panel) know that there is new email available? Some kind of D-BUS signal maybe? (It seems that the source is not available.) Is that going to be changed when modest arrives?11:21
timelyxmodest is open source, although it's spread across two repositories11:22
* timelyx could look it up at work11:22
timelyxhhedberg: are you
timelyxif so, i can save you and myself time11:22
hhedbergtimelyx, no. :)11:22
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timelyxthe useful part of modest is here:11:24
timelyxyou should be able to do a find or search to find what interests you11:24
timelyxthe part not in garage is tinymail (mail core)11:24
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timelyxoffhand, i don't see the relevant bit, you might want to look through the dbus bits11:26
AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:26
matmomorning all. Is anyone having problems reaching
timelyxgarage was fine11:26 is fine11:26
timelyxrepository was fine11:27
matmoyeah garage ok11:27
timelyxbugzilla was fine11:27 works for me.11:27
matmoX-Fade: ok, thanks11:27
hhedberghowever, not sure if the modest supports osso-contact-plugin yet.11:28
matmostrange thing is I can't reach it but my router is getting hit by on http port11:28
matmoeach line in the routers security log ends with " -Black List Defens"11:29
suihkulokkisounds very much like a problem at your end11:29
matmoI obviously have not blacklisted maemo :-)))11:30
timelyxhhedberg: i'm pretty sure it does11:30
X-Fadehhedberg: I'm looking into your screenshot upload bug atm.11:33
matmohmmm, last leg on tracert to is: []11:33
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X-Fadehhedberg: in the mean while, I removed the corrupted screenshot.11:34
hhedbergx-fade: thanks. now i can mess the entry again :)11:35
X-Fadehhedberg: I'm testing some things in your entry, so things might break again in the next few minutes ;)11:36
hhedbergx-fade: sound excellent ;) well, there is two Mauku entries in the 2006 catalog...11:36
timelyxso, can someone please explain's karma rankings for news items? :)11:37
X-Fadehhedberg: Which one do you want removed?11:37
hhedbergx-fade, I do not know, since they have exactly the same unix name.11:39
X-Fadehhedberg: Ok, i'll check them based on guid.11:39
hhedbergx-fade: of course I like more the entry with the 5 stars rating. :)11:40
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hhedbergbut the entry with the shorter description is the one I have not been able to modify because the other entry with the same name has precedence.11:41
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rothielHi guys :)11:42
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hhedbergx-fade: Thanks for you help. BTW, you may know that I have expressed my dissatisfaction with the new division of the Downloads section. It is not very nice to enter and update the same application data three times (for every different IT OS release).11:44
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X-Fadehhedberg: Now you only have 1 mauku in 2006..11:48
hhedbergx-fade: very good. I just updated the version info of it.11:48
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matmoproblem solved, bloody belkin routers11:55
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teprrrkind of offtopic, but can anyone clarify what are the main differences between jaiku and twitter? besides that jaiku has been developed in Finland..11:58
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hhedbergteprrr, I think it is the possibility to comment other users' Jaikus (messages). And of course the native Maemo application supporting jaiku. :)12:04
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timelyx> But memorial day (or whatever it is)? Hello? Ask anyone in Europe when that day is and you get a "What's Memorial day? Did they move our national holiday again?"12:06
* timelyx rotfl12:06
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teprrrhhedberg, ah, I see. and looks like Jaiku has channels while twitter doesn't. or at least their page doesn't seem to talk much about it anyways...12:14
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hhedbergteprrr, yes, channels are another thing that separates twitter and jaiku.12:20
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Molagiim having some problems with media converter12:21
Molagiim trying to execute it on windows xp12:22
Molagiand nothing happens12:22
teprrrhhedberg, looking at the code and just wondering. is it normal procedure to use prefix for dbus for 3rd party apps?12:23
Molagioh damn12:23
Molagii need java12:23
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Jaffatimelyx: yesterday was Remembrance Sunday in the UK - suppose that's equivalent to Memorial Day.12:26
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czrteprrr, no12:27
hhedbergteprrr: The tutorial encourages to use different prefix, but I think it is a bug. At least the osso_initialize() adds the prefix to the application name and uses it as a DBUS name. If the app does not use the prefix, it is killed by the system after few seconds, or it must register a DBUS callback handler with its own prefix to receive top_application notify. Of course, the libosso_initialize may be designed wrong.12:28
czrteprrr, you should use real d-bus prefixes.12:28
czrhhedberg, that is not true12:28
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czrif you pass an app name which has dots in it, osso_initialize will use that directly (no forced prefix will be added)12:28
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hhedbergczr, oh, well... another undocumented thing :)12:29
hhedbergczr, should have read the source12:29
czractually the first implementation of it was buggy (back in the 1.0 days). it contained the avoidance logic but the logic contained a bug :-)12:29
czrbut anything since 1.0 has a working implementation. just not documented.12:29
hhedberghowever, the tutorial tells to just use the application name without prefix.12:30
czrwhat can I say.12:31
teprrrczr, ah, got it :P12:31
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hhedbergbut what a wonderful day, I have learnt something new again :)12:32
czrme too.12:33
teprrrthat's how it usually goes ;)12:33
czrwell, the stuff that I learnt wasn't connected to the stuff that you did :-)12:33
czrbeen building a better vm for maemo development12:33
teprrrvm as in virtualmachine?12:34
czrgot slightly cranky because of all the fancy ubuntu stuff that mainly just gets in the way with vms12:34
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czryes teprrr12:34
czrnote, this is not the same vm as the "official" nokia-one12:34
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czrthat's packeged/built by indt/.br12:34
teprrrhmm, what's the official vm? qemu?12:35
czrerr. you misunderstand.12:35
czrqemu is used for the armel emulation for SDK (when building software in SDK)12:36
teprrrthat what I was thinking :)12:36
teprrrthat's even12:36
czrthe vm I'm talking about is a prebuilt virtual machine which contains a linux environment, installed sbox and installed maemo SDK12:36
czr(for vmware)12:36
teprrrahh. some vmware based image or something like.. ahh, got it12:36
czralthough I could imagine it would be pretty easy to convert the disk into something that qemu or xen understand, but that's not my problem atm.12:37
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czrand one would have to modify the system slightly as well, at least for xen12:37
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hhedbergteprrr, so, you are reading the Mauku source?12:37
TPCczr, as far as I know qemu can read lots of disk formats, including vmwares12:38
TPCczr, anyway, this virtual machine of yours, is it for OS2008?12:38
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czrTPC, yes12:40
TPCare you going to post it somewhere?12:41
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czrI don't have adequate bw to serve large files12:42
TPCI've been meaning to set up scratchbox to play around with some things, but I can't get it to work since I don't run x86 architecture12:42
TPCa virtual machine would be a nice workaround12:43
czrwhat do you run?12:43
czrah, yeah. that's what I do as well12:43
czrplus vms isolate the stuff from my real working environment12:43
TPCyep, thats another bonus12:43
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czrif you find some server with proper bw, I can think about it. you could always try to use the "official" vm as well. not sure whether it's ready yet12:44
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czrppl have complained about very slow dl speeds with it though (getting the image that is)12:44
kamal_garIs any one tried the example alarm source of maemo on emulator?12:44
TPCczr, you could always create a torrent12:44
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onionis the libmetalayer+extractors (defined in metadata_lib.conf) documented anywhere ?12:45
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teprrrhhedberg, yup, looking at it just for curiosity.12:47
czrTPC, no I couldn't.12:47
czrif someone is willing to host one, I'm all for that. but I'm not.12:48
czr(drop me a note if you want to)12:48
onionI was able to the the crawler to add mod, s3m, xm and oggs to the metastorage database using the libmtext_mime module, but the MIME field is null, so the media player won't list the files. If I fix the mime type then it will list the files (playing an ogg right now..)12:51
onionany documentation on how to make an metaextractor module myself ?12:51
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* zuh wonders how many hours has been spent to unf*ck ogg handling in ITOS... and how that compares to the hours it would have taken Nokia to allow it properly by simply installing the approperiate plugins13:02
kulvezuh: say fooogg13:03
zuhfooogg (yes, mastah)13:03
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kulveonion: if you find out how to do that, please let me know :)13:05
onionkulve: sure13:07
suihkulokkionion: try asking the mailing list13:10
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onionsuihkulokki: I'll do that13:13
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_berto_does anyone know if this is working?? ->
_berto_I'm trying to add a new app there but I'm getting an error13:29
X-Fade_berto_: What kind of error?13:31
_berto_Failed to create a new product under product group #0, cannot continue.13:31
_berto_Error: Access Denied13:31
_berto_the App Category and ITOS combos appear empty13:31
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X-Fade_berto_: You are right. I'll look into it..13:32
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_berto_X-Fade: thanks!13:32
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kulve_berto_: you need to login in, select it2008, select the category and then select "create maemo application" from the Page item in the menu at the top of the page..13:38
kulvethe big "add new application" button doesn't seem to work..13:38
_berto_ah, ok13:38
_berto_i'll try13:39
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X-Fadekulve: Yeah, that is a safe workaround.13:40
_berto_yes, it seems to work, I'm adding the app now13:40
_berto_I'll tell you in a couple of minutes13:40
kulveX-Fade: I just tried what _berto_ did, and I got the same error13:40
X-FadeI will fix the button asap ;)13:40
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_berto_it works, thanks! ->
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X-Fade_berto_: I've been using the app for listening a lot of hours already. I really like it.13:52
_berto_thanks :)13:52
inz_berto_, I suggest taking the s away from https when posting such links13:52
_berto_oops, I just copied & pasted from the browser, sorry13:52
inz_berto_, https links to require login, so people who don't have accounts will not see it13:53
inz_berto_, not that I care, I do have one ;)13:53
solmumaha_berto_: thanks for vagalume13:54
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_berto_you're welcome, solmumaha13:54
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X-Fade_berto_: Also makes my N800 feel nice and warm ;)13:55
_berto_I was very surprised that no one had made a similar app before13:56
_berto_the protocol is quite simple13:56
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X-Fade_berto_: Any plans for future versions?13:56
_berto_yes, my immediate plan13:57
_berto_is support for previews13:57
_berto_lastfm://play/... urls13:57
_berto_there are lots of free albums out there13:57
_berto_but they're not working right now13:57
_berto_and then, the UI13:57
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X-FadeAlbum art? :)13:57
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_berto_yes, it's part of the UI13:57
_berto_and libconic support13:58
_berto_so it detects whether the device is online or not13:58
X-FadeThe UI is pretty basic (some might even call it ugly), but it is just so great in use that it doesn't matter..13:58
_berto_yes, it's ugly, you can call it that way13:59
solmumahai like the simplicity of it13:59
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X-FadeYeah, me too. Just add a love / ban icon and it is perfect ;)13:59
_berto_I wanted to have a decent UI before releasing it, but then I thought that if it was working and people could use it...13:59
tigertvagalume rox0rs13:59
tigert_berto_: it would be nice to maybe just have the same buttons as on
X-Fadevagalume needs a bit of tigert's styling love ;)14:00
tigerttango icon set has icons for those already14:00
_berto_yes, that's the idea14:00
tigertand I could help with the layout14:00
tigertcan you do album art in practice for it?14:01
tigertI mean, should I design for that?14:01
tigertif you want help, of course14:01
_berto_I have a friend here who is making some design14:01
tigertalso, is it possible to control the volume from the app?14:01
tigert_berto_: sounds great then! :)14:01
_berto_but I'd appreciate your help14:01
_berto_I'll call you if I need it14:01
tigertkeep it finger-usable14:01
tigertthat is the main thing14:01
tigertie, big buttons14:01
_berto_right now you can use hw +/- buttons14:01
_berto_to control the volume14:01
tigertand the fave / "never play this shit again" - buttons should be in the ui, not just in the menus14:02
tigert_berto_: oh ok, good14:02
_berto_yes, I agree14:02
tigertan indicator would be nice for volume too14:02
tigertbut yeah, good stuff14:02
_berto_yes, a volume bar14:02
tigertI am loving the app14:02
solmumahatigert: you haven't updated it, have you? :)14:02
tigertno :)14:04
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tigertjust realized my copy doesnt do volume changing14:04
tigertand I assume it has other new goodies too :)14:04
_berto_0.2 is out14:04
_berto_it has volume control14:04
tigertis it in repos?14:04
_berto_not yet, it's in garage.maemo.org14:05
_berto_I have to create a .install file14:05
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tigertyea, got the package14:06
* Sho_ grumbles about being broken14:06
alteregoSho_, how is it broken?14:07
Sho_alterego: 404? :)14:07
alteregoBecause who ever maintians pidgin has set their updated date to the 17th. Which is causing them to stay at the top of the "Fresh" list :/14:08
Sho_It's the feed URL embedded into the download pages ... the format seems to be correct, for news it's news/rss.xml, too. So it was probably just forgotten to set up.14:09
alteregoYeah, like how the IT2008 site link on the front page 404's ;)14:09
_berto_oh, and one feature I have to add is the alarm clock :)14:10
_berto_it should be easy14:10
alterego_berto_, what are you developing?14:11
_berto_a client,
alteregoCool, what's the alarm for?14:12
X-Fadealterego: Wake up with your favorite music?14:12
_berto_for waking you up in the morning14:12
alteregoOh nice.14:12
alteregoAdd that and I'll install it ;)14:12
Sho_I'll file a bug at the tracker, I guess14:12
alteregoI might even rate it too :P14:13
solmumaha_berto_: maybe a timer for long it plays? :) i use it to fall asleep and have to charge every morning14:13
_berto_alterego: but you'll need to register at www.last.fm14:13
_berto_solmumaha: I had never thought about that, it might be a good idea14:14
alteregoSure, I've been putting it off for a while ..14:14
solmumahaalterego: desktop applet support coming soon?14:14
* db48x hunts for a stylus14:15
alteregosolmumaha, I've been working on it over the weekend.14:15
alteregoIt should work but it's not :/14:15
alteregoFor some reason my loader isn't being recognised. If I finish my current /job/ project today I'll have a closer look.14:16
alteregoBut I need money ;)14:16
alteregoChristmas just around the corner and everything.14:16
solmumahasleep less14:16
alteregoI'm not sure that's possible.14:17
alteregoI got 4 hours last night :P14:17
alteregoIf I carry on like that a few more days I wont have the brain function to do anything ^_^14:17
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mk8Hi to all ... :)14:18
solmumahaalterego: well after you are done with ruby, you could port pulseaudio ;)14:19
alteregoNever heard of it.14:20
alteregoWhat does it do?14:20
solmumahait's a sound server with advanced features14:20
solmumahawould be nice to switch output from tablet to server connected to speakers and vice versa14:22
cosmosolmumaha: you can do that with esd already14:23
solmumahawell it's not the only feature i like14:24
solmumahacosmo: is that easy to do on the fly?14:24
Sho_Bah, Bugzilla seems to be lazy on sending out account confirmations today14:24
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solmumahadoes tablet have tools for that?14:25
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acydlordpulseaudio made my local system keep crashing14:26
cosmosolmumaha: not real tools14:26
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cosmoyou must set environment variable manually14:26
solmumahaand restart playback?14:27
cosmoyep i think14:28
cosmopulseaudio looks better though14:28
solmumahayes, haven't tested it though14:28
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db48xum, dumb question maybe, but how do I send an escape to vi with the n800 onscreen keyboard?14:38
Veggendb48x: you don't. you use the hardware escape. (the round arrow)14:39
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timelesszerojay: fwiw, bug 226315:10
_MonkeyBug 2263 might be found at
timelessi finally got the guy to file the bug :)15:10
timelesshrm, it's in the wrong component, oh well15:11
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Takanyone do c++ unit testing?15:22
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* alterego vomits15:24
Takthat sounds like a yes ;-)15:24
alteregoI've not touched C++ in years :/15:24
alteregoAnd I'd rather not do it again ;)15:24
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mgedminlast time I tried unit-testing C code, I ended up creating a very hacky Python binding and writing the tests in Python...15:26
TakI see15:27
TakI was looking at cppunit, since I've used [nj]unit before15:27
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anders_I did some experiments with cunit a while back..15:36
vegaiI wrote a C testing framework when I was writing Maemo software15:37
vegaijust a few macros, really. Nothing fancy.15:37
vegaiOf course, it totally failed for segfaults and such :)15:37
robtaylorthere's now a glib unit testing lib thats being discussed on gtk-devel15:37
vegaiI think it was like 50 loc15:38
Taka test framework would be a solid addition to glib15:38
robtaylorlooks pretty likely it'll be going in15:39
anders_robtaylor: Got direct link to archive?15:39
monkeyiqanders_: maybe this?
monkeyiqI usually do testing in dejagnu, though its more system testing than unit testing15:40
vegaiyep, that has some good features there15:40
Takhmm @ expect15:41
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monkeyiqwell, atleast expect handles some of the fringe cases for me15:41
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monkeyiqof course you have to brew up a few handle functions to cover up some of the boiler plates for the simpler tests15:42
Takhmm, I'd have to generate driver stubs for all my test cases using dejagnu15:42
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Takif the glib code was in a more finalized state, I'd be sorely tempted to use it15:45
rothielHi guys !15:46
rothielI begun to code a game for n800, with SDL15:47
rothielit works on debian, bue not on n80015:47
rothielno error15:47
rothielI run the game and nothing happens15:47
rothielany idea ? >_>15:48
Takrothiel: does it work in scratchbox?15:48
_Monkeywell, neither is n800 if you shut it down..15:48
alteregorothiel, is it an OpenGL app?15:49
* alterego chuckles.15:49
rothielTak > ARMEL ou X86 same thing15:49
rothielno alterego , just SDL15:49
alteregoIt should be ARMEL15:49
Takwhat kind of game it it?  what does it do for audio?  what's the default screen resolution?15:50
rothielno audio, on fullscreen15:51
Takwhat is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?15:51
rothielit's a "push & go" type game15:51
rothielit's really simple, that's why I don't understand...15:51
Takwhat screen resolution does it default to?15:51
Takdoes it crash?15:52
rothielno, 640*48015:52
rothielno crash15:52
rothieljust nothing15:53
Takok - does it consume all the cpu?15:53
rothielint main(void) {15:53
rothielreturn 0;15:53
rothielthat's the same result >_>15:53
Takso it runs, but then exits?15:53
rothielno trace of my programm in the top list15:54
Takare you running from xterm, or menu item?15:54
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rothielI use the osso-xterm15:55
rothiel(brb, sorry)15:55
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Khertansomeone have already try gnucash on an it ?16:08
Takhmm - it seems like gnucash would require extensive UI modifications16:08
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Khertanit seems :)16:09
rothielsalut Khertan16:10
Khertando you know good account manager with a small footprint ?16:10
Khertansalut rothiel16:10
rothieltiens dis moi... t'as deja essayé de coder sdl sur scratchbox ?16:10
Khertannon jamais16:10
rothielj'ai un jeu qui complie nickel, que ce soit sous debian ou sous le sdk16:11
Khertanle sdl spa trop mon truc :)16:11
rothielelle se lance nickel sous debian, mais rien sous n800..16:11
Khertanta pas une fenetre x11 sous le maemo-launcher ?16:11
rothielarf donc je suppose que tu vois pas où pourrait etre le pb ^^16:11
Khertansi je vois un peu pres ...16:11
rothielbah jla lance avec l'osso-xterm16:11
Khertansur scratchbox ?16:11
rothielnon sur le n80016:12
Khertanessaye sur scratchbox ... cela sera plus facile.16:12
Takhow much code is it?  can you pastebin it?16:12
rothielmême resultat que sur le n80016:13
rothielil ne se lance bien que directement sous debian16:13
rothielet quand je compile sus scratchbox j'ai aucune erreur, c'est ça que je ne comprends pas16:13
Khertan(we are on an english chan, i think it ll be better if we talk in english)16:13
rothiel(yeah sorry)16:14
Khertan(so other users can join the talk)16:14
Khertancan you pastebin the code ?16:15
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Khertani think there is something wrong with the windows managment ;)16:15
Khertanps : GnuCash require Guile, someone know this library ?16:16
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tsavolain zeenix's words, guile is the official extension language of the gnu project :)16:17
rothiel#include "SDL/SDL.h"16:18
rothielconst int SCREEN_WIDTH = 800;16:18
rothielconst int SCREEN_HEIGHT = 480;16:18
rothielconst int SCREEN_BPP = 16;16:18
rothielSDL_Surface *message = NULL;16:18
rothielSDL_Surface *background = NULL;16:18
rothielSDL_Surface *screen = NULL;16:18
rothiel(sorry for the paste)16:18
rothielint main( int argc, char* args[] )16:18
rothiel    if( SDL_Init( SDL_INIT_EVERYTHING ) == -1 )16:18
rothiel        return 1;16:18
rothiel    screen = SDL_SetVideoMode( SCREEN_WIDTH, SCREEN_HEIGHT, SCREEN_BPP, SDL_SWSURFACE );16:18
rothiel    if( screen == NULL )16:18
rothiel    {16:18
rothiel        return 1;16:18
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rothiel    }16:18
rothiel    SDL_WM_SetCaption( "Push & Go", NULL );16:18
rothielhere is the beginning of the code16:18
Takrothiel: for one thing, you're missing SDL_FULLSCREEN from the flags16:19
rothielKhertan,  > I dunno this webiste sorry :p16:19
rothielbut I'll remember :)16:20
Khertannope your welcome :)16:20
Takfor the next thing, I'd put printfs on the error conditions so you know when they're failing16:20
rothielyes I'll do that16:21
Khertantsavola > thanks :)16:21
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TakI suspect it's refusing to initialize the screen because you're trying to do 800x480 in a window16:24
rothielI check it with printf16:25
zeenixtsavola: you have the memory of an elephant :)16:26
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rothielhum it's segfaulting16:26
rothielI'll test with SDL_FULLSCRREN :)16:27
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JaffaYay, I've now got my actual discount code.16:32
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JaffaNo clue as to release date, yet.16:33
JaffaMy bet's now firming up on the end of this week.16:33
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tsavolazeenix: i have selective memory. the selection criteria cannot be configured.16:36
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lardmanHow can I extract an email (the raw source) to send as an attachment16:39
rothielyeah Tak !16:40
rothielu found the trick :p thx16:40
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Khertanjaffa > me too :)16:44
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Taknp, I'm looking forward to seeing the game ;-)16:44
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ywwgI'm on ubuntu gutsy and I installed scratchbox, and now I'm trying to install python-maemo, but dpkg-reconfigure is not installed.  how best to fix this?16:49
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alteregodiscount code and pre instructions?!16:56
* alterego starts to drool.16:56
lardmanmakes sense, they wouldn't want to stop people buying a new one16:56
* Jaffa want OS 2008. Me want device on which to run it.16:57
* alterego gets discount code tattoo'd on face.16:57
alteregoI wont lose it there. Muahahaha16:57
db48xsongbird on n810?16:58
db48xthat would be pretty cool16:58
Khertansongbird ?16:58
db48xtop right corner of that screenshot16:59
alteregoCool, one of my friends got accepted as well. He's not told me about that :)16:59
Khertannot see it :)16:59
db48xblue background, black birds playing musical instruments17:00
db48xweird that it would be on that page17:02
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alteregoHmm, pidgin wont install.17:04
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alteregoWhere's gnutls13?17:04
pupnik_how about someone pick up mtpaint as a project17:06
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Sho_whee, just got the discount code email ;)17:06
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Khertanin fact nokia talk about songbird as a great player to sync your n800 and n810 music with your desktop17:08
Khertannot a port of songbird on an nxxx17:09
lardmanIs there a list implementation for maemo?17:11
lardmanlisp even17:11
tsavolahedgehog! (i'm not sure if it's easily available for maemo)17:14
jumpula"sometimes all of or thoughts are misgiven"17:14
tsavolabut it's lisp designed for embedded environments17:14
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tsavolabut i guess you would want some maemo integration, too :)17:15
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pupnikbtw complements to Reggie on the facelift on internettablettalk (in case this ever shows up in a google search for you)17:20
alteregolardman, tsavola, I was going to work on a lisp implementation (maybe scheme) for maemo after I'm happy with ruby-maemo17:21
alteregopupnik, :)17:21
alteregoYeah, the new design is quite cute.17:22
alteregoI like the old site layout inset into the N810 display :)17:22
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_Monkeyniihau, rubiks17:25
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rubiksanything new?17:30
josephusI've recompiled the kernel for my n800 to have ipv6 support which rendered my zImage file 120kbyte bigger. Will it fit?17:30
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josephusAlso the kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.18 source package has no extraversions while the stock kernel does. (-omap1) Will my new kernel work with the older modules?17:34
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kulvejosephus: you really should compile using the maemo kernel source18:09
alteregoThat is the maemo kernel source ..18:09
kulveand maybe you could compile the ipv6 as module, if the kernel is too big?18:09
alteregoThat would certainly be a good option.18:09
pupnikwhat class minisdhc to buy?  class 4, class 6? (mB/s)?18:09
alteregoclass 6 is ~6M18:09
alterego4 ~4M18:10
alteregoI think ..18:10
alteregoI was researching them last night.18:10
pupnikcan N810 make use of 6M?18:10 was the best purchase for me I think.18:10
alteregoDon't know.18:10
alteregoI went with a class 418:10
pupnikwow i even see 'class 2'18:11
MagicFabHi there - got accepted to the N810 program18:11
alteregoMagicFab, congrats.18:11
MagicFabsee for what it' s worth18:11
MagicFabmy focus will be on usability, particulary in regards to Ubuntu and free+open video/audio plus bug reporting and docs around that18:12
pupnikMagicFab: since you're in montreal, check out Cafe Ferreira18:13
* alterego contemplates going to Canada18:14
alteregoFree open wireless networks ..18:14
alteregoLucky punk :P18:14
pupnikdo cities provide these? or is there just a culture of private people having open wlans?18:14
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* alterego anticipates an N810 by next wednesday.18:15
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alteregoNow, to find some kind of sleek hardcase.18:16
alteregoI suppose I could make one.18:16
TPCits a PIM suite for portable linux devices, and they mention maemo on the front page18:17
bgmnot all canadian cities have good wifi networks. some have corporate-managed networks, some have community-managed. Montreal has a community network18:17
bgmI haven't tested SIP on the wifi network yet though18:18
alteregoThey even have screenshots ..18:19
pupnikTPC wow there's a maemo version too - have you tried pimlico yet?18:19
TPCbut I'm going to18:20
TPCaltought not tonight18:20
TPCa friend recommended it, he has used it on his zaurus18:20
alteregoThey have debs too.18:20
* alterego installz18:20
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alterego3.1M for a task manager seems somewhat excessive.18:22
TPCI wonder if it can import iCal or vCal18:23
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||cwgpe-calendar can18:27
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Jaffapupnik: I've got a SanDisk 6M MicroSD card on the way.18:29
alteregoI didn't really like the GPE suite,.18:30
alteregoNot very refined.18:30
josephuskulve: i don't want to insmod modules manually18:30
TPCI agree, GPE was a bit strange18:30
||cwI had a script that would sync google calendars into gpe, can't seem to find it though18:30
maddlerJaffa: jaa18:30
pupniki can only find a kingston 6M 4GB here - 37 euro18:30
alteregojosephus, add it to a bootscript.18:31
maddlerJaffa: where did you buy it?18:31
scripthi, is it possible to develop for gregale AND chinook in the same scratchbox?18:31
alteregoscript, yes.18:31
alteregoJust install the appropriate SDK's18:31
scriptalterego: do you have an howto handy?18:31
alteregoThe installation instructions?18:31
pupnikwell you should really set up a different target for each18:31
scriptalterego: chinook installed fine ... gregale docs are missing18:31
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Jaffamaddler: mobymemory.com18:32
scriptalterego: thanks, that what i needed :)18:32
JaffaAbout 50eur for 6GB18:33
alteregoJaffa, I found ebuyer to be cheaper ..18:33
JaffaReally? I had a look. Ah well.18:33
JaffaCan't really complain what with the device being only 99eur18:34
alteregoJaffa, only a couple of quid.18:34
alteregoI was buying other stuff from their too anyway.18:34
JaffaMakes sense, then18:34
alteregoAnyone know how Series 40 phones perform with tablets?18:34
alteregoThinking of getting a 630018:34
JaffaShould work well18:34
JaffaNice phone. Know a few people here who've got them. Only 2.5G, though18:35
alteregoThe calendar widget on in the pimlico suite is impressive.18:35
maddlerJaffa: lemme have a look...18:36
josephusalterego: thanks for the advice. btw i've heard there are tools for complete initfs/fiasco rebuilds. Do you know anything about them?18:37
alteregojosephus, unfortunately not.18:37
maddlerJaffa: 6GB costs less than 4GB?!18:37
alteregoWhat about the Nokia 5700?18:38
alteregoIt's over twice the price, series 60 though18:38
maddlerno... misread :)18:38
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maddlerJaffa: damn! they don't ship to Italy!18:40
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Khertan6630 work well too18:42
Khertans60 v2 phone18:42
alterego5300 looks quite nice.18:43
alteregoI don't want to spend that much on a phone.18:43
alteregoBut I really need a new one ^_^18:43
Jaffamaddler: If you don't find anywhere locally, I can always forward on to you.18:44
Khertani get mine on ebay for 35Euros18:44
* pupnik has gotten 4 ppl to buy n800s :)18:45
kulvejosephus: I think there's no fiasco tools :(18:45
Khertanalterego > pimlico date is good ... really better than gpe :)18:45
alteregoCan't even find the 663018:45
alteregoKhertan, yeah. It's impressive.18:46
Khertanbut gpe have a google sync ... :)18:46
alteregoA few more refinements for maemo and it would be perfect.18:46
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Khertanyes an hildon windows and alarmd bind :)18:46
flip^how goes the random game developments pupnik?18:46
Khertanthe task is more useless as category can t be entered18:47
* alterego contemplates spending 300 on the new tablet and a 570018:47
Khertandue to a bug on the combobox popup18:47
Khertanso i go on ...18:47
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alterego£300 is quite a bit of money. Is it really worth it? ^_^18:47
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pupnikflip^: mucking about with new pingus.  it is almost playable on 770.18:50
flip^thought you'd stopped developing that :o18:51
pupnikwell i'm not really doing much except for trying to find tweaks18:51
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flip^cool... lemme know when you've got it packaged again... i could do with something to idle away some time with (and wiped my tablet since i put it on last)18:52
pupnikoh and setting up one-click installs too.  i have to find a place to host .install files with the proper mimetype (my webhoster won't let me set the htaccess)18:53
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Takpupnik: host them on garage18:53
flip^did the php fix not help, pupnik ?18:54
pupnikcan't do the php either - yeah i will have to host on garage i think18:55
pupnikat least the install file - the repo will probably have to stay on my webhost due to garage size constraints18:55
pupnikunless they are generous with exceptions18:55
flip^how big is it?18:56
pupnikoh and i did finally get the repository working18:56
pupnika number of things are > 2MB18:56
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flip^not sure how to set up the mime type properly, but i'd be happy to set you up some hosting space on a box i have full control over, if you ever need it18:57
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Takxmame is ~3.5M18:59
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pupnikflip^: yeah if i could just upload some .install files and point to them from my site, that'd be all i need.19:02
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pupniki could also host them on a box at home and set up dyndns19:03
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flip^pupnik: give me a mo :)19:03
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scripthow do you handle differences between organisation of hildon-headers between gregale and chinook? <hildon/..> vs. <hildon-widgets/...> in your code?19:11
_berto_with #ifdef's19:11
scripthow does that #ifdef look?19:11
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_berto_#if defined(MAEMO2) || defined(MAEMO3)19:12
_berto_#include <hildon-widgets/hildon-program.h>19:12
_berto_#elif defined(MAEMO4)19:12
_berto_#include <hildon/hildon-program.h>19:12
scriptand these MEAMO[23] get defined where?19:12
_berto_have a look at my ->
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script_berto_: thanks19:13
scriptis that robust? is that best practice?19:14
_berto_well, of course there are other ways, but that worked for me19:14
_berto_you could check for those headers in your configure.ac19:14
scriptok, i'm just curious if there's a standard-way19:15
scriptbut anyways, your way looks pretty nice19:16
scripti guess i'll adopt that19:17
_berto_I guess that the best way would be to check for those particular headers19:21
_berto_and define HAVE_HILDON_WIDGETS or something like that19:22
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_berto_but this one's working now, I'll change it someday19:22
alteregoWell, that way isn't exactly fool proof.19:24
alteregoAnd it'll get complicated pretty quickly.19:24
_berto_yes, might be, I chose to detect which version of Maemo I'm compiling on19:25
alteregoYou're not compiling against maemo though are you.19:25
_berto_I only have 3 possible options so it isn't difficult19:25
alteregoYou're compiling against Hildon & OSSO or whatever.19:25
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alteregoIf you want to be portable. To other platforms using Hildon you should check for Hildon versions.19:26
alteregoIf you're dead set on just Maemo, then you only really need to support the most recent OS for each tablet (2006 & 2008)19:26
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_berto_but there are many users of 2007 out there19:27
alteregoNot for long.19:27
alteregoSure, right now 2007 but in two weeks it'll be 2008 and no one will be using 2007 :)19:27
Tak...except people with 770s19:28
_berto_I'm not that sure, but anyway if that ever happens I can stop making packages for 200719:28
_berto_that's not a problem19:28
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alteregoTak, presumably if they're that into their 770 they'll install 2008HE when it gets released.19:28 201019:28
_berto_I'm targeting 2006 2007 and 2008, changing the to support other platforms that use hildon is not complicated19:28
_berto_but I probably won't do that until the problem appears19:29
alteregoI tend to target the latest (2008) and backport the problem API's :)19:29
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_berto_I'm targeting the latest as well, but as long as it compiles in 2007 and 2006 I'll add support for them too19:30
alteregoWell, I'll be stopping support for 2007 when 2008 comes out. So they wont get any of the new API I implement.19:31
alteregoI've not done any recent 2006 packages either.19:31
alteregoThough I'll do those on request.19:31
_berto_well, I'll try to support any platform as long as there are users19:32
_berto_if it's not difficult to make the program work on a particular platform, I can add support for it19:33
bedboiwhat's this android shit. Java, please be serious.19:33
alteregoHmm, Android. They're pretty much directly competing with ARM's own brand that they recently announced.19:34
bedboilol, google--19:35
bedboijava, damn they must be joking.19:35
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_berto_and it seems that it uses a different bytecode19:42
alteregoI wonder why apple didn't stick Java on the iBone19:42
solmumahaalterego: os2006 package request19:44
alteregosolmumaha, okay :P19:44
alteregoThat does mean installing the 2.2 SDK again :/19:44
solmumahai'm in no hurry19:46
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alteregoCool, you can wait until I get my new laptop next week :P19:46
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zoranalterego, where is the pool/repo?19:47
alteregoThere is no repo.19:48
alteregoI'll stick them into extras when I release the next version.19:48
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alteregoThe 770 packages haven't been updated since you last used them though.19:48
zoranwe are talking about rubymaemo for 2006?19:49
alteregozoran, indeed.19:50
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solmumahaalterego: i'm in no hurry for the packages, but i think you should support 770 if it's not hard19:52
pupnikanybody with a N810 here ?19:52
pupnikyes plz support 770 :)19:52
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alteregosolmumaha, it's not that it's hard. It's just there are deprecated libraries in OS2006 that don't exist in later versions.20:06
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alteregoSo sure, you can have the libs that are shared across. Like Hildon and OSSO. But things like the internet connection managing library is different. Which means binding a whole new library solely for the 77020:07
solmumahawell that sounds hard :)20:08
alteregoNot hard, just time consuming.20:09
alteregoThat's if it's possible. Some libraries just can't be bound.20:09
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pupnikwhat is developer price for N810?20:09
alterego£69.12 at the moment :)20:10
_matthias_alterego: 69.12 ???20:10
alterego_matthias_, that's what google says.20:11
alteregogoogle "99EUR in GBP"20:11
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_matthias_ah ok ;)20:11
_matthias_fortunately my payments are in EUR ... saves conversion calculations on my side ;)20:11
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_berto_and the retail price?20:12
alterego~360EUR I believe20:12
_berto_cheaper than the N80020:13
alteregoThen I'm probably wrong.20:13
solmumaha460 more like it20:13
alteregoStill, I wonder why they're so much cheaper than the N series20:14
alteregophones ..20:14
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alteregoNew lot that is. There are obviously cheaper N series phones.20:14
alteregoI suppose without carriers and a contract they have to have lower prices to make them affordable to Joe public.20:15
_matthias_jap probably20:16
alteregoHeh, I don't think so ;)20:16
alteregoThe tablets are built in the same way as their handsets.20:16
* czr peeks20:17
pupnikthe high-end phones are also sold to businessmen who have much money :)20:18
* _matthias_ will write an email and ask if he can get a free n-series phone and a free contract with his n810 ;)20:19
alteregoOkay, the 6500 looks sweat.20:20
alterego~sweet .. Not sweat20:20
* alterego tries to justify spending £260 on a new phone + £70 for tablet.20:20
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alteregoI suppose the money I'm saving from not having to pay full price for the N810 covers it ..20:22
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czr"the money you save"? :-)20:24
czrinteresting logic :-)20:25
_matthias_alterego: hm ... can i connect you with my girlfriend on the phone to explain her ;)20:25
czrsounds like my justification for buying expensive hw "just think of all the money I'll save by not going to bars and movies while working on this stuff"20:25
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alteregoI didn't think of that czr. Thanks, another good reason ;)20:27
czralterego, I've been doing this for ages :-)20:27
czrI have any self-deceptive reasons.20:27
czrmany. should vacuum the keyboard it seems.20:27
alteregoThe problem with phones, unlike tablets is they can't be updated (software wize) which kind of stops me from wanting to spend money on the neat ones :/20:28
alteregoWould give me an oportunity to work on Ruby S60 though :)20:30
czrS60 always did sound like a Volvo model in my ears20:33
czr"why on earth would you want to write java applications for that?!?"20:34
czrlet's see whether 4.0 works properly20:34
* czr dons on the space suit so that high-velocity shapnels of the sdk exploding won't cause too much of a mess20:34
alteregoThe install was painless.20:35
alteregoI edited the installer script to install using custom target names.20:35
alteregoI like 'maemo4-sdk-armel' etc.20:35
czrat least the name has some logic now20:36
czrI wish they'd drop the silly capitalization though20:36
czrtko, noooo, how dare you insult them? :-)20:37
czrI call them HumanFriendlyButUnnecessarilyLongCaps20:38
tkooh.. silly_caps then?20:38
czrmuch better :-)20:38
czrbleh. seems that I forgot to add the composite thingy to xephyr again. what was the xephyr cmdline?20:39
czrah, it's in the install.txt20:40
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alteregoFOTA? That sounds promising.21:09
czrhmm. is it possible to pass an envvar from outside sbox to inside, when doing login?21:13
czr(just want the DISPLAY to pass automatically)21:13
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czrhmm. when I start appmanager in the sdk, it starts by outputting "Operation Failed" hildon_banner. any idea why?21:14
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czralso "check for updates" yields the same hildon_banner21:14
* Solarion wonders if quim hangs round these parts much21:15
suihkulokki /last fota21:16
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alteregoYou could always wrap your /scratchbox/login into a scratchbox script/21:17
alteregoMake it edit a .varsrc file or something21:18
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alteregoI'm half sold on getting a S40 phone that as AV out rather than the cheaper N73 :/21:19
alteregoSure, the N73 has 2G miniSD supplied, which is directly compatible with the N810. But I really like the AV out idea ..21:19
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danielsczr: passing $DISPLAY is usually no good unless you also bind-mount /tmp21:23
Andy80is it possible to use the browser application from the maemo SDK?21:23
czrdaniels, hmm. one can use TCP for the connection though21:24
czrno need to pass tmp/X-sock21:24
danielswell, you _can_ use TCP, sure ...21:24
daniels(that was the 'usually' in my sentence above, but it's not like using TCP is any good.)21:24
czrdaniels, yes, but TCP is used in the current SDK setup. so what's the problem?21:25
czrI know it's not as fast or anything. but this is for SDK.21:25
danielsright.  if you're doing it on the local machine, why faff around with tcp? just pass the socket.21:26
czrwho said I was using a local machine?21:26
czrX-forwarding over ssh actually :-)21:26
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czrso, back to the original question. how do I pass an envvar on /scratchbox/login automatically?21:28
penguinbaitadd it to your profile?21:28
alteregoczr, .varsrc ?21:28
czralterego, .varsrc?21:28
alteregoor .displayrc21:29
czrpenguinbait, it's going to be different each time.21:29
czrbleh :-)21:29
penguinbaitsorry comming in late, have no idead about what your talking about :)21:29
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alteregocat sock > $SCRATCHBOX_HOME/.displayrc21:29
alteregoThen in your scratchbox .bashrc. Get it to source that file.21:30
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czralterego, bleh21:31
czrI don't want to type anything within sbox..21:31
penguinbaitmay I ask what your trying to accomplish?  czr?21:31
czris there a file with envvars that will be read for a user on sbox-login then?21:31
czrpenguinbait, getting DISPLAY to pass over into sbox on /scratchbox/login21:32
czrindependent of its contents.21:32
danielsczr: .bashrc21:32
czrdaniels, how?21:32
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alteregoczr, you wont need to.21:32
penguinbait.bashrc is executed on login21:32
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czrno it's not, but that's besides the point21:32
alterego.profile then21:33
penguinbait.profile then21:33
czror .bash_profile.21:33
penguinbaitfailing to see the issue?21:33
czrlet me see then. I'll need to wrap the login so that executing that will store the contents of DISPLAY into the .bash_profile within sbox before executing the sbox/login21:33
alteregoso: source ~/.displayrc21:33
alteregoin your profile.21:34
alteregoAnd cat sock > $sbox_home/.displayrc21:34
czralterego, cat sock?21:34
alteregoExactly what I've been trying to say the whole time ..21:34
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alteregoYou gave a location.21:34
czrah yes. I see now.21:34
czralterego, location of what? :-)21:34
czrsorry for being such an idiot :-)21:34
alteregoX_sock or something.21:35
alteregoIf it's the SSH env var just echo it :P21:35
czrah, I see21:35
czryup. that's the plan21:35
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czrit's an SSH env var called "DISPLAY" ;-)21:35
alteregoSuprise :P21:35
alteregoHmm .. This must be bad karma after me.21:36
czrme? :-)21:36
czrI'm not bad karma. just annoying mostly.21:36
alteregoNo, not you :P21:36
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alteregoWhat are you trying to accomplish Crying_EM0_Soul ?21:42
czrdon't feed it21:42
alteregoSpam bot with a low IQ.21:42
czrhey, it's EMO, emotionally challeneged, after all :-)21:42
Crying_EM0_Souldo you speak Russia?21:43
Crying_EM0_Soul :'(21:43
alterego(maybe he thinks MaEmo is for emo's ..)21:44
Crying_EM0_Soul ÿ íåçíàþ àíãëèéñêèé21:44
czralterego, heh, could be :-) didn't realize that before21:44
czrCrying_EM0_Soul, please stop. english only.21:44
czror UTF-8 at least.21:44
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Crying_EM0_SoulI am from Ukraine21:46
alteregoWe don't speak Russian21:47
alteregoYou could always try using google translate if you want to communicate.21:47
alteregoSTOP IT!21:47
czralterego, actually some of us do read it.21:47
czrbut he's not using utf-8.21:47
alteregoI know.21:47
czror koi8-u21:47
alteregoHe's not?21:47
alteregoHe must be using that other one then21:48
czrUTF-13 maybe :-)21:48
Cord. o O ( quad-rot13 (21:48
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alteregoStrange how he repeats the same sequence.21:52
czralterego, I now have displayrc. works nicely.21:52
czralterego, must be generic programming.21:52
czrgenetic even :-)21:52
Crying_EM0_Soulmy name is Nastay21:52
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_|Nix|_Dammit! I created a page on the Maemo wiki and I don't remember what I called it! Is there a place that lists the wiki pages created by me?21:54
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penguinbaitOK perhaps thats not correct21:55
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_|Nix|_... but seriously, folks ...21:56
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alteregowget | grep '_|Nix|_'21:56
alteregoIF you did it recently :)21:56
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alteregoThose names are a guess ..21:56
_|Nix|_Page "recent_changes" not found in wiki Wiki.21:57
l7you could google site:wiki.maemo.org21:57
_|Nix|_At least firefox says so ...21:57
alteregoThose names are a guess.21:57
alteregoLook for the recent pages page.21:57
alteregorecent changse ..21:57
_|Nix|_Your search - recent changes - did not match any documents.21:58
_|Nix|_It's "latest changes", not "recent changes" ...21:59
alteregoI told you I wasn't sure.21:59
alteregoUse your imagination :P21:59
l7_|Nix|_: does googling for your name work?21:59
* _|Nix|_ goes 'n checks ...22:00
penguinbaitThat is one thing penguinbait, likes about the name penguinbait22:00
penguinbaitthere is only one :)22:00
_|Nix|_l7: That's the first link ...22:00
alteregoThere's loads of alterego's ..22:01
alteregoBut it's been my nick for a long time.22:01
_|Nix|_Oh, you mean my garaga username?22:01
infobot_|Nix|_ meant: Oh, you mean my garage username?22:01
l7_|Nix|_: it looks like google did not index wiki.maemo.org22:01
l7only maemo.org22:01
_|Nix|_l7: But simply redirects to ... that's probably why.22:02
alteregoDo a search for alterego and ruby-maemo though. And I'm all over the shop :)22:02
_|Nix|_Hmmm ... have you guys tried to tag the wiki pages with your projects UNIX name to have it show up under product/OS200x/yourproduct?22:02
_|Nix|_I tried it and it didn't.22:02
l7is this it?
l7ah good22:03
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pupnikthat nickname disturbs my eyes when scanning the channel22:05
alteregoHoly moley22:07
alteregoN800 doesn't get OS2008 until december :/22:10
danielsthe n800 and n810 os2008 downloads will be released simultaneously22:11
alteregoThat's not what the Nokia site says.22:11
danielsit's not a port, like the hacker edition, so it's not a matter of trying to make it run22:11
danielswhich site?22:11
alterego"For current Nokia N800 users we will launch the online availability of th new OS2008 upgrade during December"22:12
penguinbaitDEC for 2008OS on n800?22:13
alteregoWhich is a pain, because I can't download skype because it's just showing the OS2008 page >:(22:13
danielswell, i'm not going to try to argue with you ...22:13
penguinbaithmm, they already have people with n800's running it22:14
alteregoYou're arguing with the statement on that site.22:14
alteregoI couldn't care less.22:14
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pc_speakerHi everyone!22:20
pc_speakerAny new rumors on OS update release?22:20
alteregoI can't find the flippin' rootfs download page >:(22:20
alteregoZere are deh flash images.22:21
timelessit's at the obvious location22:21
timelessthe flash image itself wasn't up last i checked22:21
timelessalthough the md5sum was posted :)22:21
alteregoI don't want the OS200822:21
alteregoI need the OS200722:21
timelessassuming you don't want he22:22
alteregoNeah, I don't need the wanker edition22:23
* czr didn't know HE had special support for that22:24
timelessoh, for wankering?22:25
alteregoIt does with the strapon22:25
pc_speakerAnd what about other n800 channel, The #n800? What server is it on?22:25
* czr nods22:25
alteregoI mean add on,22:25
czrheh alterego22:25
pc_speakerHacker edition is great thing for 770 owners :)22:25
* czr should try it one of these days22:25
alteregoMe too.22:25
czrhave an 770 lying around22:25
czrI don't think I've booted it up for.. ages.22:26
alteregoStrange how the first OS2007 release was tagged 200622:26
alteregoMaybe that's the release date.22:26
alteregoWhen was the N800 released?22:26
pc_speakerAges ago :)22:26
czrgah. 4.0 env takes 2.7 gigs of space22:26
czr(including the distro)22:27
alteregoczr, you installed _all_ the debugging libs didn't you ..22:27
czralterego, ummmm. no? :-)22:27
* czr looks around in a hurried fashion22:27
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alteregoWhas that a no?22:27
alteregoOr a yes?22:27
czrused the defaults :-)22:27
czrnote that I removed all the rootstrap tars and downloaded debs already22:27
alteregoWell, mines ~4G22:28
alteregoThat's maemo3 and maemo422:28
alteregoBut that's just the scratchbox install ..22:28
alteregoI've not looked into VMWare server yet.22:28
danielsalterego: the releases are named yyyy.ww-n.  so, 2006.47-n was the nth release of week 47, 2006.  likewise 2006.51-n.22:28
czrsbox/ takes ~1.5 GiB22:28
czrrest is distro stuff22:29
daniels(obviously, to be in stores on jan 8th, they had to be manufactured in 2006.)22:29
alteregodaniels, that's what I thought.22:29
alteregoWell, except the week bit.22:29
danielswelcome to finland: everything here is dealt with in week numbers.22:29
alteregoWhat's RX-34 about then?22:29
pupnikweek numbers make things easier for task planning22:29
danielsrx-34 is just the model number of the n800, as su-18 was to the 770.  all our products have a model number.22:30
alteregoI presume (PR) is "public release"22:30
daniels(rx-44 is the n810, as can be ascertained from the label.)22:30
BloodyOHello, I just upgraded my N800 to the latest software and I can no longer get a working Wlan connection. It shows it is receiving data but not sending and I am in the same room as the access point so it has full bars. Any clues on what to do next? I aleady tried restarting it, removing the battery, restarting the access point.22:30
timelessi think it's actually product release22:30
danielsalterego: PR = product image.  we have a few more internally, for testing, etc.22:30
timelessis that half a dozen, or an even dozen?22:31
alteregoSo you try and release an image every quarter?22:31
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timelessthere are weekly builds22:31
timelessoften quite a few22:31
danielspupnik: except when someone asks you if you can do something by w45, so you have to reflexively turn around and open up the calendar popup on your laptop, to map that to a week range.22:31
alteregoI meant a public release image.22:31
timelesseach set w/ images (pr) and e.g. testing22:31
danielstimeless: last i checked, 6.  (pr, tr, ta, rd, ex, and one more i can never remember)22:31
timelessmanagement decides22:31
timelessand they change their mind more often than they decide22:31
timelessif they told us, we couldn't tell you22:31
timelesson that, they seem to be clear22:32
danielsindeed.  if it's public, you already know it.  if it isn't, we can't talk about it.22:32
pupnikweeknumbers only work if you use them frequently and always know what weeknumber it is22:32
timelessi'm fairly surprised daniels listed the image names22:32
timelessalthough technically the web browser leaks them :)22:32
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timelessbut no one seemed to care :)22:32
* czr will report this travesty22:32
alteregohow did he leak the image names?22:32
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timelesshe listed them a few lines ago?22:33
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danielsbut it might help to see them as separate products.  itos2007 was one 'product', which had two enhancement releases (2006w47 originally, then 2006w51, then 2007w10).  os2008 is a new product, so i guess draw your own conclusions.  but it's not a straight 2006w47->2006w51->2007w10 evolution.22:33
timelessyou missed a product :)22:33
alteregoSure, I get that.22:33
danielstimeless: if disclosing that information (without attached names, even) is bad, then that's the least of our problems ...22:33
timelesssince somewhere floating around there was something after 10 :)22:33
timelessdaniels:... :)22:34
alteregoI presumed they were timestamps of some sort.22:34
danielstimeless: oh, there was? i didn't notice.22:34
timelessthere was an entire name after it :)22:34
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timelessand that i won't mention, that'd be telling22:34
pupniki can't wait to see what a transflective screen looks like in sunlight!22:34
fysafinally.  ZNC working.22:34
danielsalterego: the n is the release number within that week, and we might roll a few before it's perfect.  but there's no real timestamp other than yyyy.ww.22:34
fysabetter than dircproxy I think as it supports multi simultaneous clients22:34
alteregoThat's cool.22:34
timelessyeah that last number is basically useless22:34
timelessyou could have an 1822:34
timelessor you could have a 222:34
alteregoI see an 822:35
timelessdaniels: that first stuff wasn't22:35
alteregoThat must have been a bad week ;)22:35
danielsyeah, it's meaningless, unless you have the other 7 to compare with22:35
timelessit was on the previous name22:35
danielstimeless: mumble mumble handwave22:35
danielsas far as the external world's concerned, it's all pure and seamless22:35
alteregoNokia seems like a really nice company to work there.22:35
alteregoIf I was in Finland I'd apply :)22:35
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timelessdaniels only covered through 1022:36
timelessSoftware Edition 2007 version 4.2007.26-8 for Nokia N80022:36
timelessSoftware Edition 2007 version 4.2007.38-2 for Nokia N80022:36
timelessare listed on22:36
alteregoThe skiing opportunities are good too ^_^22:36
shackandaniels: what do people use for on-device profiling over there? oprofile? (gprof is broken btw)22:36
timeless38 of course is actually a joke22:36
timelesssince it's really 26-8+1 patch22:36
czrah. /me noticed it is now winter. which is evil.22:36
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solmumahaalterego: why would you want to make tires?22:36
timelessshackan: oprofile22:36
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shackantimeless: okay22:36
timelessbut because of the stupid week numbering22:37
timelessit ended up being 3822:37
timelessjust to confuse people22:37
danielsshackan: yeah, oprofile22:37
shackantimeless: oprofile doesn't work in scratchbox tough ....22:37
czrsolmumaha, I wish they'd still make the rubber boots though22:37
timelessfor kicks, you can't assume that there is a week between say 1 and 322:37
danielstimeless: hmm, i can't remember what's in w26, but yeah, i did forget w38 for the mmc fix.22:37
pupnikdoes OS2008 let me do like a fd = open("/dev/dsp",O_WRONLY,0) ?22:37
timelesssometimes they get skipped for reasons beyond our understanding22:37
timelessdaniels: skype/rhapsody/flash22:37
timelessit was the only one that had the code name you listed to me22:37
timelessthe others had the other *handwave*22:38
Takwhat?  os2008 has oss?22:38
danielsalterego: the skiing in finland is crap, since we have no mountains greater than 15m elevation.22:38
alteregoThat's a shame.22:38
danielstimeless: oh christ, yeah.  the stuff i don't care about.22:38
timelessyeah, you don't come here to ski22:38
solmumahaczr: yes, they kicked ass, nowadays i have to buy a new pair every two years :(22:38
alteregodaniels, what about hiking/camping?22:38
timelessdaniels: that makes two of us?22:38
czrsolmumaha, indeed. that was my point.22:38
timelessin theory i believe they fixed some other miscelaneous junk22:38
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czrsolmumaha, they were the best nokia product ever. including the 300 baud models, with the smiley coloration and things.22:38
timelessbut i don't care enough to check :)22:38
danielsalterego: cross-country skiing opportunities are plentiful, ditto camping (only in summer, of course).22:38
timelessplenty of opportunities for mosquitos22:39
czrdaniels, you can go camping up north with snow mobiles. pretty nice too22:39
solmumahastop it, you are making me sad here22:39
czrjust remember to take a good shovel with you for digging into the snow22:39
alteregoYou don't to winter camping?22:39
shackandaniels: what about the language?22:39
alteregoCamping in snow is awesome ..22:39
* timeless grumbles22:39
timelessshackan: the further north you go, the more Finnish you'll want to know22:40
czrit's cool yes. which reminds me that I should do it once before leaving the country.22:40
timelessin Helsinki, 0 finnish is fine22:40
alteregoczr, do what?22:40
danielsshackan: the language is fucked.  nothing wrong with it per se, but persian has a far closer relationship to english than finnish does.22:40
timelessgo north?22:40
czralterego, go north to bury myself in snow and have fun with snow mobiles22:40
alteregoczr, yes. That sounds fun :)22:41
danielsso don't count on familiarity, unless you're in helsinki or on the south or west coasts, where you'll get signs etc in finnish and swedish alike (though the swedish is often merely lip service).22:41
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alteregoWhat about English?22:41
timelessok, fwiw, the flashes are still not up22:41
czrthere's not much english22:41
alteregoI met someone who works for Nokia the other week. He came to Cambridge to watch a band.22:41
czrmost people will understand you though22:42
alteregoTom something or other.22:42
danielsalterego: in helsinki, english is flawlessly understood everywhere.  outside of hki, depends, but you can't count on it.  as timeless said, latitude is usually a decent metric.22:42
Jitenyoung people especially. It's the old ones who have problems.22:42
timelessyoung = <4022:42
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timelessat this point maybe <4522:42
alteregoI should fly over to Helsinki one of these days.22:42
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* czr feels young again22:43
timelessnote that children under 10 are problematic22:43
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timelesssince they start English in 3rd grade22:43
alteregoYeah, 10 yo's are b*stards ^_^22:43
timelessso your mileage may vary22:43
timelessbring a responsible adult?22:43
alteregoMe, I'm 2422:43
danielswell, put it this way.  any service you receive in a store or restaurant, will have functional english if youneed it.22:44
timelessunless you want ingredients22:44
timelessin which case, forget it22:44
timelessasking for "masking tape" is problematic22:44
czrmost menus in helsinki area are avail in english as well22:44
alteregoAre there more nokias in finland than most other phones?22:44
* timeless isn't quite sure on most22:44
danielsalterego: by far22:44
czralterego, yes22:44
danielstimeless: misc supermarket goods are a fun challenge22:44
timelessthere are more nokias than people too22:45
JitenThen again, in some restaurants you sometimes have problems getting service in Finnish :)22:45
timelessdaniels: indeed22:45
danielsusually they result in a phonecall to a friend (e.g. acquiring draino tonight)22:45
alteregoKnow the ratio?22:45
czrjiten :-)22:45
daniels(kodin putkimies, fwiw)22:45
alterego*cough* send me one *cough*22:45
timelessnote: washing machines and similar appliances ime are also painful22:45
timelessgetting a laptop that runs windows anything and speaks english turned out to be very painful22:45
Jitensome cheaper restaurants have foreigners working and some of the time they won't understand a word of finnish.22:46
timeless(we failed, truth be told)22:46
danielsalterego: nokia pays 25% of finland's corporate tax, and has 50% of the net worth of the entire helsinki stock exchange.  that kind of presence is seriously distorting: travel agents, numerous software subcontractors, hotels, etc, etc, would all go down the drain if n did.22:46
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alteregoThat's .. Amazing ..22:46
timelessi like to think of nokia in helsinki as equivalent of the usgov in washington, d.c.22:46
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timelessif you aren't working for <whichever> you're working for someone supporting <whichever>22:46
danielstimeless: interesting.  when i arrived, i had two laptops on my desk: a t43 with nothing (for linux), and an x40 with winxp.  i blew away the x40 since i wanted that as my primary linux laptop, but point being, english winxp was there by default ...22:47
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danielsmy officemate's laptop (he's japanese) is english windows too, and i don't recall him doing anything special.22:47
timelessdaniels: yeah but NBI gave it to you22:47
danielsor do you mean in the mythical land outside of work?22:47
alteregoYeah, I hear you need windows for your VPN22:47
czrgetting en-versions of laptops shouldn't be an issue22:47
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danielsalterego: no, vpnc works fine22:47
daniels(thank fuck)22:47
timelessthis was a normal human not working for N22:47
czrat least with the branded ones. not sure about the cheap ones22:47
timelessalterego: no22:47
alteregoMaybe it's some collaboration software then.22:48
timelessthe n800 and 770 and most phones can vpn22:48
timelessit's a fairly standard vpn22:48
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alteregoAre there Nokians that _only_ run Linux or Mac? I.E. no windows at all?22:48
danielsalterego: exchange is imappable, but some bits do require notes, yes22:48
timelessczr: we went with something like dell22:48
_Monkeydaniels: that doesn't look right22:48
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timelessi can't remember which major brand22:48
timelessbut this time, i failed22:48
danielsit died22:48
czrtimeless, I like dell too. hassle-free service when you know who to call22:48
timelessthey basically said we could contact ms and pay for one22:48
czrtimeless, and with business models you can drop the windows-tax22:48
danielsalterego: i only run linux.  i use my officemate's xp laptop whenever i need to file an expense report, but that's it.  i have a linux desktop and two linux laptops.22:49
timelessczr: in the past, i've called companies and had them ship cds22:49
alteregoI watched a fan film last night "The return of the ghostbusters" it was pretty good :)22:49
timelessit might not have been dell22:49
timelessbut whichever one this last one was, it was a name brand22:49
czrtimeless, cds of what?22:49
timelessand they wouldn't send english disks22:49
alteregodaniels, good for you :) That's how I like to work.22:49
czrah, you actually wanted windows :-)22:49
timelessos install disk22:49
czrI normally want to get laptops without windows :-)22:49
timelessyou're in this channel, you aren't normal22:49
timelessthis was a guy about to retire22:49
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timelessand i don't want to do full time tech support22:50
timelesshrm, or maybe he's already retired22:50
* czr nods22:50
* timeless shrugs22:50
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timelessanyway, normally the big companies ship disks anywhere22:50
timelessand it's not a problem22:50
timelessbut whichever vendor this last one was didn't22:50
timelessi think the previous time we did it, lg shipped from canada22:50
timelesswhich was nice22:50
alteregoHmm .. 6500 or N73 ..22:50
alteregoI really can't decide.22:51
czrget both22:51
* timeless sighs22:51
czryou know you want to22:51
timelessdon't buy either22:51
timelesssave for something better22:51
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alteregoI need a new phone.22:51
czrhmm. what's the policy of redistributing the nokia binaries?22:52
danielsczr: 'don't.'22:52
czr(after they've already been installed, as part of a virtual machine image)22:52
daniels(this does not constitute official legal advice.)22:52
czrthought so22:52
timelessor ditto22:52
czroh, don't worry, didn't think so :-)22:52
danielsbut yeah, iirc the eula is the usual 'one backup for private use only' job.22:52
czryup22:52 doesn't list the 650022:53
czrwell, I won't be releasing the vm then :-)22:53
czrmakes it easier for me really.22:53
alteregoIt's quad band.22:53
alteregoYou'll have to do a search for it.22:54
alteregoIt's a series 4022:54
alteregoThere are two models, 'slide' and 'classic'22:54
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alteregoI dunno, phones are so over priced.22:55
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alteregoOr at least I think so ..22:55
danielsthe 6500 is very nice indeed.  slim and sleek.22:55
timelessn73 or n73 music?22:55
alteregoWhich comes with a 2G miniSD too22:55
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timeless6400 slide or classic?22:56
infobottimeless meant: 6500 slide or classic?22:56
alteregoWell, the classic looks nicer. But the slide has better features for only £10 more.22:56
timelesstalk is better on 650022:56
timelessas is colors (claim)22:56
timelessmax on memory card is also better (4gb  v 2gb)22:57
alteregoI like the idea of having a small thin phone though. The N73 looks kind of bulky.22:57
timelessno speakerphone on the 6500??22:57
timelessoh and 6500 is s40 instead of s6022:57
timelessi think people tend to like s40 better22:57
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timelesspersonally, i consider speakerphone a requirement22:58
alteregoIt does have speaker phone.22:58
Robot1016500 is a more polished 6233 I think22:58
timelessalterego: compare claims it doesn't22:58
alteregoWell, I'm pretty sure it does. It's got video calling for godsake :P22:58
alteregoOh, you're looking at the classic right?22:58
timelessi'd give you a link22:58
timelessbut this stupid thing is a flash app22:58
* timeless curses22:59
alteregoDoesn't matter. I'm there ;)22:59
timelessfwiw, i have 2 documents printed hanging outside my office highlighting bugs in the 770/n800 listings from this site22:59
alteregoCool, the N810 just popped up on the nokia site ;)22:59
timelessdaniels can attest to it22:59
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timelessif he hasn't seen it, he can visit tomorrow and then attest :)22:59
danielsyeah, i don't often visit that part of the world23:00
timelessso in case it isn't clear, i wouldn't actually _trust_ this site23:00
timelessi think it's about time to compare n800 w/ n81023:00
alteregoOh, believe me. I've seen plenty of "glitches"/"misinformation" on the nokia sites :)23:00
alteregoI also respect how much effort must go into maintaining them.23:00
alteregoThe nokia site is probably bigger than ..23:01
{abo}Uhm... The N800 CPU will run at 400 MHz, once you upgrade to the 2008 release, right?23:01
* timeless doubts it23:01
timeless{abo} max speed, sure23:01
timelessalways? no23:01
timelesssame for the n81023:01
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penguinbaityes abo23:02
timelessit's the same cpu, but w/ 2008 it's a variable speed w/ a higher max23:02
{abo}Is there a good source for this? I believe it, but the delete squads at Wikipedia requires a source. :/23:02
timelesscat /users/daniels23:02
* timeless shrugs23:02
timelessi'm not a valid source23:02
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alteregoOkay, I have my discount code. When it hits the country. Can I buy the N810 from a nokia outlet?23:02
alteregoWith the code?23:03
timelessdoubtful :)23:03
penguinbaitMara did some testing with my compiled version of CPUFREQ and it shows 400Mhz on n800 running 2008os23:03
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penguinbaitNokia online I think is the only way23:03
timelesswhat would be a valid source?23:03
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alteregoRight, I was just curious.23:03
alteregoThere's a nokia retailer (CBS) right near me.23:04
alteregoWould be neat if I could just walk in and pick it up :)23:04
penguinbaitwhats there return policy :)23:04
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timelessaccording to
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timelessthe n800 does not have "Internet browser with HTML"23:05
timelessi'm glad to hear that23:05
* timeless was afraid it would23:05
penguinbaitMy n800 box says I can do video messaging23:05
timelesstoday's going to be a long night23:05
|Rhaha wtf23:05
penguinbaitanyone know how to do that23:05
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timelessit also says the n800 doesn't have an fmradio23:06
alteregopenguinbait, open the camera23:06
pc_speaker1849N800 can do everything if it's operated by Chuck Norris :)23:06
alteregotimeless, when it was released it didn't ;)23:06
penguinbaitok camera open, now what23:06
timelessthe n800 doesn't have a speakerphone23:06
{abo}timeless: Mah, nevermind, I'll let the "citation needed" stay until the N810 is out, it should be easier to find something that'll be accepted then...23:06
timeless{abo} it'll take a bit longer i believe23:07
* timeless thinks someone has a source for "longer"23:07
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penguinbaitsays no suitable account defined23:07
timelessthe winners for today23:07
timelessthe n810 has no weight23:07
alteregopenguinbait, tah-dah! :P23:07
timelessdaniels: does the n810 really not have hwr?23:07
alteregoMust be that new antigrav Nokia have been developing.23:08
alteregoYou know. Drop proof phones.23:08
alteregoI.E. they can't drop ..23:08
penguinbaithopefully 2008 will bring the ability for n800 to talk to n810 and other non nokia devices, like computers23:08
daniels{abo}: i can't really speak to the cpu issue, except to say that the power management code is exactly the same, and that 400mhz isn't optimal anyway.  running a 400mhz reduces the dsp and, crucially, display bus (rfbi) speeds.23:08
timelessok, the site says the n810 doesn't have hwr23:09
timelesstoo bad it does23:09
danielsso, any time you do a display update or use the dsp, it drops the cpu back down to 330mhz in order to run the dsp and rfbi at more optimal speeds.23:09
timelessthe n810 has no memory card type23:09
{abo}daniels: Oh, interesting.23:09
penguinbaitI am curious how sound quality qill be effected23:09
timelesswhich is funny23:09
milhousetimeless - any idea if Media Queries will be supported by Microb?
danielsbut yes, it will hit the odd 400mhz peak.23:09
timelessmilhouse: does gecko support it?23:09
danielstimeless: n810 still has hwr, on account of the software being identical23:10
danielspenguinbait: sound quality being affected how?23:10
timelessdaniels: yeah, i'm just reading the compare list23:10
milhousetimeless: not firefox 2 but i don't know about the gecko in microb23:10
timelesswhich is lying right and left23:10
timelessmilhouse: 99.99% certain it doesn't23:10
danielsmaybe we need to ship more coke to the marketing department.23:10
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timelessi think they have enough23:10
penguinbaitby lowering DSP23:10
alteregoMaybe that's why Linux Format thought the N810 had 10G storage.23:11
milhousetimeless: thanks (bit of a shame) - interesting article here about using it to load stylesheets optimised based on screen resolution
danielspenguinbait: ah, no.  as soon as you open the dsp device, it doesn't go above 330mhz.  so you won't notice any difference: the dsp never drops speed while there's an active task.23:11
alteregoAdmittedly you can see where that number came from. 2+8(max)23:11
timeless    Future  style-system@core.bugs  CSS3 "media queries"23:11
timelessmilhouse: tell the author to take a flying leap23:11
timelessok, this is funny23:12
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timelessthe n810 has Internet Tablet OS 2007 edition: maemo Linux based OS200823:12
timelesswhat in the world is that?23:12
alteregoSounds funky.23:12
alteregoI want it.23:12
timelessnote to anyone reading: i'm quiting a site which is smoking more substances than any person i've ever encountered w/in a couple of miles23:12
timelessthey recommend a nokia fm transmitter ca 30023:13
* timeless wonders what that is23:13
|Ris the fm radio gone in n810?23:14
alteregoFor cars23:14
pc_speaker1849BTW Apple managed to get 600MHz to the iPhone... Why not use faster CPU in nokia tablets?23:14
timeless|r: yes23:14
|Rk :|23:14
timelesspc_speaker: no23:14
timelessthey have something like 750mhz in the iphone23:14
alteregopc_speaker, that sounds wrong. The iPhone's CPU is the same.23:14
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pc_speaker1849I've heared that iPhone has Samsung 600Mhz ARM...23:14
|Ractually, the mhz count was overrrated no?23:14
|Rit was more like 45023:14
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|Rcan't remember where i read that, but the specs were wrong23:15
alteregoI thought the CPU in the iPhone was the same OMAP in the N8X023:15
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danielsno, the iphone isn't using the omap.23:15
pc_speaker1849I played with iPod touch recently and the UI is FAST.23:15
danielsin any case, they probably just have different priorities.  our priority #1 is power consumption.  theirs, as can be seen from the use time, isn't.23:15
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pc_speaker1849And the N800 seems a bit slow for me...23:15
bstockhey, so any updated release date for 810?23:15
alteregoWell, they probably have drivers for their 3D/2D acceleration processor *** cough ***23:15
danielspc_speaker1849: that's not the cpu, that's software.  we're fixing it,but it's a slow process.23:16
{abo}The N95 has the same OMAP, though, right??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????23:16
* timeless chuckles23:16
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alteregobstock, any day now.23:16
danielsalterego: that wouldn't help a bit.23:16
timeless{abo} the n95 has a smaller screen23:16
daniels{abo}: yes, omap 2420, but otherwise very similar hw23:16
alteregoWould if you used them :P23:16
danielslacking a couple of chips we have, and then they obviously have the gsm/umts radio too23:16
danielsalterego: actually, no, it wouldn't23:16
{abo}(Darn VNC and key repeats)23:16
danielsalterego: the issue is all to do with latency and roundtrips23:16
danielsalterego: you'll notice if you look closely at the ipod touch that they just blit a saved image of what it probably looks like, then re-render it later23:17
alteregoIt's look prettier ..23:17
alteregoIt'd look prettier ..23:17
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danielswe don't do any of that, plus both gtk and our apps insist on doing some very, very dumb things.  i'm working to get that one fixed for the next major os revision, but it's a massive set of changes, so don't hold your breath.23:17
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danielsalterego: yes, it'd look very pretty with the same (or worse) latency.23:17
alteregoSo, hypothetically, if we had the PowerVR core working. Would we be able to get fullscreen OGL rendering?23:18
skiburrwhat is a good case for a N800?23:18
daniels(or possibly look like crap, but look like crap with projective transforms.)23:18
danielsalterego: yes23:18
alteregoWould that help Cairo?23:18
* lardman joined at the right time, sounds interesting23:18
timelessopengl is 3d23:18
timelesscairo is 2d23:18
alteregocairo can use OpenGL23:18
alteregoOpenGL is also 2D23:18
_Monkeyokay, alterego.23:18
alteregoIt is a graphics library.23:19
alteregoFor 2D and 3D graphics.23:19
danielstimeless: you can use the hw to accelerate cairo though23:19
timelessdaniels: that'd be nice23:19
danielsespecially given that most opengl (es) hardware also supports openvg these days, which maps on top of cairo23:19
timelesscan you accelerate it this year, please?23:19
milhouse_monkey forget opengl23:19
_Monkeymilhouse: I forgot opengl23:19
pupnikdaniels: can you give us any hints of powervr support, or possible way for community to integrate it?23:19
danielstimeless: it won't make a difference for the browser's font rendering though :P23:19
milhouseSkiburr - the official Nokia case is a good case for the N80023:19
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skiburrthe one that comes with it?23:20
milhouseSkiburr - plenty of pictures on the ITT forum23:20
_Monkeyi guess the one that comes with it is 6, there is no upgrade23:20
alteregoI don't like tan leather ..23:20
alteregoNot on cases ..23:20
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timeless_monkey forget the one that comes with it23:20
danielspupnik: that one's firmly in 'no comment' territory, sorry23:20
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot one that comes with it23:20
timeless_monkey the one that comes with it is <reply>23:20
_MonkeyOK, timeless.23:20
milhouseSkiburr - no, it's an accessory (have a look in tableteer it's got a direct link to buy, although the link is not working for English speaking countries such as the US and UK)23:20
skiburrI was looking at some leather ones, but I'm not sure23:20
danielspupnik: but, safe to say we aren't exactly ignoring opengl23:20
skiburro ok23:20
lardmanJust to recap, PowerVR support is planned by Nokia?23:20
alteregoThe PowerVR core vendor's site had a glitch asking me if I wanted to be notified of N800 support ..23:21
pc_speaker1849ARMv6KZ  ARM1176JZ(F)-S  SIMD, Jazelle DBX, (VFP)  variable, MMU+TrustZone   Apple iPhone, Conexant CX2427X, Motorola RIZR Z823:21
pc_speaker1849Iphone cpu...23:21
skiburrthanks milhouse23:21
timelesslardman: i don't think you can get "planned" from people here23:21
skiburrthanks guys/gals23:21
timelesseither it's in an official roadmap announcement23:21
pupnikok i hope that definitive no-comment helps #maemo stop whining and wondering.23:21
timelessor we couldn't say23:21
alteregoEither they're talking about a different N800 or ..23:21
shackandaniels: are binary powerVR drivers available anywhere "for free" (any platform would do) ?23:21
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pupnikyes TI has some shackan23:21
timelesshi blassey23:21
alteregoshackan, yes. But not for the ABI we use.23:21
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lardmanshackan: they are available, but not with source23:22
alteregoThere was a rumour only for 2.4 kernels. Though I'm sure I saw 2.6 when I looked.23:22
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danielsshackan: i don't believe the kernel module they use works with our kernels.  iirc pepperpad was 2.6.14 or something.23:22
lardmanalterego: I have 2.6.12 (iirc) in front of me23:23
blasseyhi timeless23:23
alteregolardman, like I said. I was sure there was support for 2.6 ;)23:23
alteregoSomeone told me they only supported 2.4 but I was sure I saw 2.6 and couldn't bother looking :P23:23
shackandaniels: yes, I just want to take a look at a binary, for whichever platform it is23:23
timelessshackan: check the license23:24
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danielsthe pepperpad ships with it; can't remember theothers23:24
timelessthat may or may not be allowed :)23:24
lardmanit's on the Ti site, I'll find you a link23:24
* shackan is of course underestimating how complicated such a driver actually can be23:24
pupniklardman - any news on the dsp kernel crashes and the <=1MB shared memory problem?23:24
timelessok, wow23:24 is really confused23:24
alteregoIf I try and mate my N800 and N810 will I get an N95 ?23:25
timelessit doesn't know anything about the n81023:25
lardmanpupnik: I've not had time to debug, but I've heard from a chap on dspgateway-devel who was able to map 7MB on one of the boards, so it may be possible still23:25
danielslardman: note that the 2430 and 2420 are subtly different23:25
* timeless wonders who runs the nokia web site23:25
danielstimeless: cmo23:25
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pupnikcan you use 2 512kB buffers and just 'page flip' between them?23:26
danielsi think is common market operations, and is multimedia23:26
lardmandaniels: yes I'd thought that, the Ti site no longer has a 2420 download and points to the 2430 version23:26
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alteregoThat sucks.23:26
lardmanpupnik: You can only map one section of memory, it's the total size that is the issue23:26
timelessdaniels: but who would you yell at?23:26
alteregoThe 6110 looks sweet but what would I do with two GPS devices?23:26
timelessalterego: i picked up a bluetooth gps device23:27
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danielstimeless: i wouldn't bother, if it were me23:27
timelessif i could remove the n810's, i would :)23:27
pupnikmaybe we could all go outside and do a 'rain dance' to bring the openGL support23:27
alteregoI suppose I'm less likely to get mugged holding a phone as opposed to the tablet,23:27
danielstimeless: but i don't know actual names, anyway23:27
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danielspupnik: too late, it's already snowing23:27
timelessis it snowing?23:27
lardmandaniels: you wouldn't bother because it's in hand?23:27
* timeless needs to get dinner23:27
alteregopupnik, I reckon it will happen. Even if it's not for another 3-4 months.23:27
alteregoJust be patient and continue your work like the rest of us :)23:28
alteregoKarma and all that ;)23:28
danielsdude, it's been snowing _all day_.  there was snow on the ground (visible from the 6th floor) when i woke up, i got blatted with icy chunks on the way to work, and the footpaths were mildly iced over when i was walking to work.23:28
timelessit was hailing when i came to work23:28
timelessno snow, just hail23:28
timelessand i haven't been out since23:28
timelesshrm, it wasn't iced along my path23:29
* timeless ponders23:29
timelessperhaps the bridge to the falafel place is a bad idea23:29
_|Nix|_I think it let up a bit towards evening.23:29
* timeless picks an alternate route23:29
penguinbaitwhere r u that its snowing?23:29
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timelessas are daniels and _|nix|_23:30
_|Nix|_I went to Meri Tähti around 20:15 and it was more crunchy than icy.23:30
alteregoI'll have to come and visit you in the new year timeless :)23:30
alteregoWhat's the coffee like in Helsinki?23:30
timeless_|nix|_: got a url for that? whic is it?23:30
_|Nix|_timeless: For what?23:30
danielstimeless: hm, i guess it's a fine line between snow and hail.  but the ground was covered in fine white powder, and white chunks were coming out of the sky.  too small to be hail imo, but eh.23:30
timelessMeri TC$hti23:30
daniels(australians aren't exactly authorities on snow.)23:31
* alterego giggles23:31
timelessi worked on a product called Hailstorm23:31
_|Nix|_timeless: What?! You dunno where Meri Tähti is?!23:31
alteregoYou're Aussie?23:31
timelesswe got hail once while we worked there, (golf ball sized iirc)23:31
_|Nix|_LOL :o)23:31
alteregoThat's not fun23:31
_|Nix|_This was /not/ hail.23:31
alteregoHappened to me when I went windsurfing23:31
timeless_|nix|_: dunno, i'm terrible w/ names23:32
timelesswhich is it?23:32
alteregoI had blood dripping down my face after that. Had to use my board as a f*ing shield.23:32
_|Nix|_timeless: Next to the subway station.23:32 =)23:32
danielsalterego: yeah23:32
_|Nix|_suihkulokki: No way ...23:32
danielstimeless: hailstorm is the bane of my life23:32
alteregoI now don't windsurf very much when it's cold O_O23:32
_|Nix|_OMG ... I can't believe it ... that /is/ their site ...23:33
suihkulokki_|Nix|_: ?23:33
timelesssuihkulokki: thanks, but does it speak English?23:33
_|Nix|_suihkulokki: ... that they should have a site called :o)23:33
shackandaniels: how legal would it be to take register addresses and other 'magic values' from such a binary?23:33
shackanlardman: thanks23:33
shackanalterego: you get a helluwa screen, but still can't make phone calls (which is a friggin' shame)23:33
alteregoshackan, ?23:34
suihkulokkitimeless: nope =) lounaslista = lunch menu23:34
_|Nix|_timeless: It says "copyright © 2007 int2000 & entertum"23:34
_|Nix|_timeless: That's English ...23:34
timelesscorrect legaleese...23:34
timelessi suppose that's better English than i'm used to here...23:34
_|Nix|_I dunno ... I've heard quite good English while here ...23:35
alteregoI'm English what's "entertum"?23:35
shackanalterego: yes?23:35
_|Nix|_alterego: A proper noun, I expect.23:35
timelessa person equivalent23:35
suihkulokki_|Nix|_: I've used the page for years to know if it's the day to go there =)23:35
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alteregoshackan, Just wondered what you were talking to me about :)23:35
danielsshackan: i can't even pretend to give you advice on such issues, and even if i could, it would be staggeringly unwise to do so23:35
shackanalterego: eh?23:35
shackandaniels: how different is the 2430 from the 2420 ?23:35
_|Nix|_suihkulokki: What makes it the day to go there ... for you?23:35
alteregoMy N800/N810 baby ^_^23:35
alteregoI have a cool idea.23:35
danielsshackan: i don't think they're wildly different, just a few different clocks etc, plus a different dsp23:36
alteregoFor a HW project I think I'll start soon.23:36
lardmanAny Python gurus here? What's pycentral?23:36
suihkulokki_|Nix|_: the intersect of what's on the lunch menu and what a crave for that day :)23:36
lardmandaniels: do you know the structure of the IVA?23:36
alteregoBT controlled toy helicopter23:36
_|Nix|_suihkulokki: Aaaah ... *nod* ...23:36
shackanalterego: when on earth did I say entertum ?23:36
danielslardman: it's basically just a dsp23:36
suihkulokki_|Nix|_: you'r a regular too ?23:37
danielslardman: iirc it looks very similar to the c55x23:37
timelesscould you guys take me the next time you go?23:37
lardmandaniels: there's no info about it available. I imagine the omap technical reference manual is the thing to look at23:37
timelessjust send me an sms if you can't walk the extra wings23:37
lardmandaniels: but with different hardware accelerations?23:37
danielsshit, looks like today was a good meritähti lunch day.  wednesday and thursday look good too.  nice.23:38
alteregoThis conversation is obiously confusing everyone ..23:38
danielslardman: yeah, pretty much.23:38
suihkulokkiaccording to rumours iva1 is arm7 + special multimedia thingis, while iva2 is new version c55x dsp with multimedia thingys23:38
alteregoconversations ..23:38
lardmansuihkulokki: interesting23:38
timelessseriously, please take me23:38
lardmanstrange there's lots of info for the c55, but little/none for the IVA23:38
* alterego wonders if Nokia are leading up to the N100023:38
danielsotoh, it looks like tomorrow is the only worthwhile day for eating at the work cafeteria.23:39
alteregoPfft, that's a bad product name actually ..23:39
timelessalterego: nokia numbering convention doesn't make sense23:39
timelessdon't even bother23:39
danielscabbage rolls stuffed with mushrooms23:39
alteregotimeless, I know :)23:39
danielssuihkulokki: that's more or less my recollection, yeah.23:39
alteregoThe N series has opened up a whole new range of numbers to play with though :)23:39
alteregoThe NX23:39
alteregoVery start trek ..23:40
timelesspersonally i prefer n0023:40
alterego00N here23:40
suihkulokkin360 =)23:40
* timeless penalizes sui*23:40
alteregoThats roman for N2 by the way ..23:40
alteregoor NiT23:41
timeless_|nix|_: so... i want to get my phone to speak English23:41
timelessany idea how to get a proper flash? :)23:41
alteregoInteresting .. NIT .. I never saw that before.23:41
penguinbaitnit is headlice eggs23:41
alterego(N)okia (I)nternet (T)ablet23:41
danielstimeless: it doesn't already?23:41
timelessno, it speaks British High English23:41
penguinbaitstill looks like lice eggs to me23:41
danielstimeless: success!23:41
alteregopenguinbait, that's what I was trying to say ;)23:42
penguinbaitoh, well then23:42
danielsyou can't blame your phone for knowing how to spell colour.23:42
penguinbaitI agree23:42
timelessjust watch me!23:42
alteregoI even use Colour in my programs.23:42
alteregoDumbass yanks ..23:42
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alteregoNo offence to any Americans here :)23:42
Cordmy shell isn't colo(u)red23:43
penguinbaitnone taken23:43
lardmantimeless: when you say English, what you mean is American I assume?23:43
lardmanI speak English, I am English23:43
penguinbaitis there another type of english23:43
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danielsi speak english, i am _not_ english.23:43
alteregopfft :P23:43
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czrlardman, do you write programs or programmes?23:43
penguinbaithow about spanglish?23:43
alteregoI speak English, I don't know what I am ^_^23:43
alteregoI am a Rubyist.23:44
alteregoI come from Ruby23:44
czralterego, you're the person who promised me that I could do a single click install of the task manager :-)23:44
lardmanczr: 'tis a good question, programs, but I watch programmes on TV23:44
penguinbaitI am Bush hater23:44
penguinbaitbut not bush hater23:44
penguinbaiti dont knwo23:44
czrlardman, yup. I seem to remeber that the official work for both was programmes many years ago23:44
czrbut I think people have given up on the computer-related version by now23:44
alteregoczr, I'll stick them in extras-devel when I get the time :P23:44
lardmanczr: yes, but one sees program so much nowadays it's sort of caught on23:45
alteregoczr, check out pimlico-project.org23:45
alteregoIt's very promising.23:45
alteregoThe Task manager isn't as good as mine though.23:45
alteregoVery minimalistic.23:45
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czrlardman, yup. I think it will slowly happen to colour as well23:45
alteregoI admit .. I use program23:45
czralterego, does pimlico work?23:46
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czri.e., where can I install from?23:46
daniels(en_AU does differ in a couple of places, and one of those is universal use of program.  i still say stuff like analogue, though.)23:46
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shackandaniels: of course I understand, but mmm, I said just how different they are :)23:46
shackandaniels, have you learned finnish yet? :D23:46
shackanalterego: especially those with a stuttering wireless connection23:46
alteregoczr, sure. They have OS2007 one-click-install on their sites for Task and Calendar23:46
danielsshackan: getting there ... ish.23:46
shackansuihkulokki: what are those?23:46
_Monkeythose are /dev/rfcomm, maybe?23:46
lardmanczr: pehaps in computer code, but the U will never go, it's mainly a case of annoyance23:46
alteregoI do use Programmer though and Programming ..23:46
czrlardman, it will go eventually. will take many many years :-)23:46
alteregoI've seen quite a few people use Programing .. Which just looks .. Wrong ..23:47
lardmanwhen we're annexed as the 51st state and all that :)23:47
shackandaniels: sorry my connection sucks dog nuts tonight, there.. where?23:47
czrlardman, that depends on whether you behave or not :-)23:47
czrlardman, plural you. not singular :-)23:47
danielsshackan: getting there -> learning finnish.23:47
shackandaniels: oh, I see :D23:48
lardmanczr: lol, future of the UK hanging on my next few words :)23:48
czrlardman, it would be a terrible power, wouldn't it.23:48
tigertdaniels: yksi olut?23:48
tigertdaniels: should we talk finnish to you?23:49
lardmanbut would be great :)23:49
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alteregoMeh, I'd like to be properly part of the EU to be honest.23:49
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alteregoHoly Moley23:50
alteregoThe Eee has been released.23:50
alteregoI wonder how that'd run scratchbox ..23:50
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penguinbaithow much for an Eee23:50
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shackananyway, nokia people, any future plans to integrate android somehow ?23:51
danielstigert: ei olutta :\23:51
danielstigert: not feeling very well at all23:51
alteregoWhy would maemo intergrate android?23:51
danielshence why i'm chating shit on #maemo, instead of hacking on x23:51
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doublecthey came just out in NZ too. $599.23:52
czralterego, you a nokie people now? :-)23:52
czrnokia even.23:52
tigertdaniels: flu?23:52
czrdamn wannabe :-)23:52
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penguinbaitI like the Nokie23:52
tigertandroid hada nice sdk23:52
tigertwith emulator etc23:52
tigertall java it seems23:52
penguinbaitNokie is hokey23:52
alteregoczr, I wish :P23:52
timelessshackan: i'm pretty sure nokians can't comment at all about that23:53
timelessi think there's even an official no comment statement23:53
shackantimeless: oh, wow23:53
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czrandroid is in direct competition with maemo though. and S60 for that matter.23:53
timeless--- chinook/release/clinkc-2.0/include/cybergarage/upnp/event/csubscriber.h23:53
czr(IMHO obviously)23:53
tigerttimeless: I heard of no official statements really23:53
timeless+++ chinook-20071107/release/clinkc-2.0/include/cybergarage/upnp/event/csubscrib23:53
shackan<rant> god damn, is there anything you're allowed to talk about? </rant> :)23:53
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tigertlets see how open android is, and how the toolkit is23:54
czrshackan, they're allowed to talk finnish :-)23:54
timelessshackan: we can talk about the n81023:54
timelesssince it shipped23:54
alteregoczr, I'd say S60 definitely.23:54
alteregoNot sure about Maemo.23:54
timeless-*       This is licensed under BSD-style license,23:54
timeless+*       This is licensed under BSD-style license with patent exclusion,23:54
czralterego, I think both.23:54
* timeless frowns23:54
timelesshow can clinkc have changed its content w/o changing its version number?23:54
* shackan is downloading a fresh copy of eclipse just for android23:54
alteregoczr, it's also in direct competition with ARM's endeavour into the mobile Linux OS market.23:54
tigertshackan: I dont know of any official statements about android23:54
czralterego, what's that?23:54
alteregoczr, something I heard about the other day.23:55
tigertwhy should there be any? if it is open source, all the better23:55
alteregoMaemo are launching their own Mobile Linux platform.23:55
timelessmaybe unofficially we don't comment?23:55
* timeless shrugs23:55
tigerttimeless: dunno23:55
timelesssame difference23:55
pc_speaker1849Google Androind sounds kinda scary :)23:55
czr"giving developers the ability to start writing software for phones due to start shipping in 2008 and $10 million in prizes to lure them."23:55
czrwhy didn't maemo give 10 MUSD in prizes? ;-)23:55
tigerttimeless: maybe some people run around scared again? :)23:55
danielstigert: yeah, i think something flu-ish.  the usual cold symptoms, plus can't think properly or focus.23:55
alteregoczr, what's that?23:56
alterego10M USD for what?!23:56
czralterego, for writing apps for android23:56
shackanalterego: it's lots of money23:56
czrthat too :-)23:56
shackanalterego: for software23:56
* alterego ports ruby-android23:56
danielstigert: which means we have to sit down over coffee instead of beer to plan the logo. ;)23:56
czrsee. I told you. competition.23:56
tigertdaniels: eek :)23:56
alteregoWait ..23:56
alteregoThis could be their plan!23:57
tigertdaniels: that damn logo turned out tough23:57
tigertI tried to look into it but it didnt go quickly23:57
alteregoIs their SDK even out yet?23:57
tigertalterego: it is23:57
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* timeless frowns23:57
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timelessi need a tool to find symlinks to . and similar things23:57
shackanalterego: it is, just got it23:57
timelessanyone have suggestions?23:57
danielstigert: yeah, no rush :) i don't really have any ideas tbh23:58
shackanalterego: emulator, eclipse integration etc etc etc23:58
czrtimeless, combination of find -type l and readlink?23:58
alteregoI really don't give 2x sh*t about eclipse.23:58
tigertdaniels: yeah23:58
alteregoI think that 10M USD is split between all developers that do something cool I'd imagine.23:59
timelessgoogle could do it either way23:59
timelessit wouldn't hurt their bottom line23:59
shackanalterego: I seriously hope so23:59
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czralterego, "$10 million total in prizes, each ranging from $25,000 to $275,000, to programmers picked by a panel of judges. "23:59
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shackantimeless: yeah, at this point they're just drowing in cash :D23:59
alteregoI guess something like that you can't refuse.23:59

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