IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2007-11-11

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timelyxtko: i think my favorite is ""even i can't break through the firewall""00:01
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Robdgreatwb ChanServ :]00:03
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disqpower hug.00:04
pickl1does anyone feel like giving me a hand getting a simple helloworld running under scratchbox please?00:05
pickl1I get the following error:  D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory00:05
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pickl1I'm using the example from
timelyxstrange, there's no such file on my device :)00:12
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pickl1i'm using ./helloworld to launch the app - does that make any difference?00:16
timelyxit shouldn't00:17
timelyxis dbus running?00:17
pickl1how do I tell?00:17
timelyxi have /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --session00:17
timelyxps aux|grep dbus00:17
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timelyxi also have /usr/bin/bme-dbus-proxy -N00:18
pickl1i can see /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system00:18
* timelyx shrugs00:18
* timelyx doesn00:18
* timelyx doesn't speak dbus00:18
pickl1are there any good examples anywhere I can use to check my sdk setup?00:19
* timelyx shrugs00:19
kulvepickl1: usually I don't try to run anything on scratchbox, easier to copy it to the device, and run there00:19
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timelyxkulve: how many n810 devices have you bought?00:20
* timelyx kicks kulve00:20
pickl1that means I have to wait for it to arrive though...00:20
timelyxthat's what mxr has to say about chinook/dbus00:20
timelyxoh brother00:21
timelyxok, sorry00:21
timelyxthere's some duplication in dbus00:21
timelyxi messed up the cross reference generation00:21
timelyxyou can switch to sardine to read it...00:22
pickl1i didn't even realise i was trying to use it :-/00:23
kulverunning anything complex stuff on sb with qemu is just pain. But have fun.00:24
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pickl1i'm not using qemu - just installed the chinook sdk on ubuntu and trying to get *anything* to run.00:25
pickl1I am having fun though :)00:25
kulvearm target, or x86?00:25
kulveok, that's a bit less pain..00:26
pickl1thats reassuring00:26
kulvehave you started the environment? With
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pickl1yes - i can see hildon desktop in my xephyr window, so thats all good00:26
kulvedbus-uuidgen creates the missing machine-id, iirc00:27
kulvebut it doesn't sound correct that you would need to create it by yourself..00:28
kaltsipickl1 I got the hello world from there working00:28
pickl1dbus-uuidgen creates a uuid to the console, but i still get the same error00:29
kulvecopy it to that machine-id file00:29
kaltsiI didn't need to do anything like that..00:29
kulveit doesn't need anything else, it's just a unique id for the computer00:29
pickl1kaltsi, did you do anything special?00:29
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kaltsiI installed the final chinook sdk today and just tried this..00:30
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kaltsiI took the helloworld sources from the link provided in maemo4mobile00:30
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kaltsiso nothing special I guess00:31
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kaltsihow did you compile your hello world?00:33
kaltsithe provided sources had the autotools magic.. I had to do autoreconf -i and then run ./configure00:33
pickl1got it working now - i had to manually create the machine-id file and put the output of dbus-uuidgen into it00:35
pickl1thanks guys00:35
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pickl1could this be anything to do with upgrading from the beta sdk?00:35
kulveI have the beta too (arm target), and no machine-id..00:36
kulvebut now I'm off00:36
pickl1thanks again for your help00:36
kaltsiI don't have a machine-id either but didn't get any dbus complaints00:36
pickl1i created the source files manually and didn't use autotools00:37
pickl1so maybe thats it00:37
kaltsiyea could be00:37
pickl1anyway, at least i can play around a bit now00:37
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disqanybody interested in installing kagu in chinook and testing the player functionalities for us? so that we can verify and upload the deb to chinook-extras01:18
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alteregoCool, adding desktop applets to ruby-maemo will be super easy :)01:43
p|samples samples samples pls :D01:45
alteregoOf course.01:45
alteregoOnce I write the bindings :P01:45
alteregoWell, the loader.01:45
alteregoThe cool thing about this is. You don't even need to install ruby, you can just install libruby and ruby-maemo.01:46
p|good good01:46
alteregoIf I can use the extras repo, It'll give me a opportunity to modularise ruby-maemo a lot more. So you wont have to install everything just to run an applet etc.01:47
alteregoI should probably describe the packaging standard for ruby maemo apps.01:47
rhykini wonder if os2008 will reduce performance on the n80001:48
alteregoIt's supposed to increase performance :P01:49
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p|+70mhz ? :)01:49
alteregoWell, plus scaling and 70Mhz01:50
alteregoFlash has been optimized.01:50
alteregoI'm sure it runs just fine.01:50
p|hope that autoscaling doesn't make system unresponsive...01:50
rhykinwith os2008 convert the processor to 4000mhz?01:51
* rhykin is eating ;)01:51
p|si rhykin01:51
alteregoYes, 4Ghz performace ^_^01:51
rhykinwhy habvent they just doen it alreqy01:51
rhykinfor os200701:51
alteregoBecause they were developing their power management scheme I'd imagine.01:52
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alteregoMaybe there was an issue with the hardware at those speeds they've solved.01:52
alteregoNot really.01:52
disqalso because they don't want to run QA twice and delay chinook01:52
rhykinso is the n800 underclocked?01:53
alteregoThere are a lot more oddities than power management and CPU clock speed :P01:53
rhykini assume01:53
alteregorhykin, check the spec.01:53
alteregoOMAP 242001:53
rhykini knew it was 330mhz, but i didnt think it was underckocked'01:53
alteregoHmm .. I dunno.01:54
alteregoIt's not really that interesting to me.01:54
milhouse330mhz is the optimum speed for omap2420 - at 400mhz the dsp actually runs more slowly01:55
p|i found my n800 very fast compared to my htc tytn (400mhz)01:56
rhykinthere, now im done eating01:56
milhousei guess with various power management improvements it became possible to push the cpu harder when it is needed and still end up saving power in the long run01:56
milhousenokia believe it is better (in terms of power usage) to run the cpu faster for a brief period than run it slower for longer01:57
rhykinguess i will upgrade to os'08 when it comes out :)01:57
zerojayProbably allows dynamic speed switching.01:57
alteregoWhy wouldn't you upgrade?01:58
rhykinbecause i didnt think it would improve the processor speed01:58
rhykinand theres no programs out from developers yet01:58
rhykinso i was gonna wait01:58
milhousep| - the operating system may have something to do with that! :)01:58
milhouserhykin - probably going to be glitches for the first few days...01:59
rhykini assume we wouldnt be able to use os07 apps, correct?02:00
rhykintheres a lot of software changes02:00
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milhouseyes, i would expect most os2007 apps to be incompatible with os2008 particularly gui apps. command line apps may still work though02:00
milhouse^ that's just a guess on my part about command line apps :)02:01
zerojayThere's a lot of porting work going on, so it might be less of a problem than we might expect.02:01
zerojayBut we'll see.02:01
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rhykinso far i see no benefit to the n81002:03
rhykinexcept the $200 keyboard :P02:03
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zerojayThe screen.02:03
zerojayTransreflective and apparently glass.02:03
_Monkeyi think GPS is nice, though02:03
zerojayGPS, yeah.. that'll be nice.02:03
zerojayEspecially nice once more apps are location aware.02:04
milhousesmaller?  (but heavier, and better looking)02:04
milhousedid anyone find out what the n810 easter egg is/was?02:04
p|'night all !02:04
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zerojayThe only things I'll miss from the N800 is the rotating camera and the two SD slots.02:04
milhouseyou'll miss the rotating camera? imho it's a waste of space02:05
zerojayI used it quite a lot.02:05
milhousetwo sd slots - agreed :(02:05
milhousethought the image was mostly unusable - really poor quality, or duff software not sure which02:05
zerojayThe camera was poor quality, but just having it always with me was enough reason to use it.02:05
milhousei appeared as an orange blob, and i'm not orange02:06
zerojaymilhouse: How about this orange blob?
milhousevery similar! :)02:07
rhykinhat the02:07
rhykinwhat the*02:07
zerojayA cop on the corner near work.02:07
zerojayAt about noon.02:07
zerojayToo bad he wasn't there an hour later.02:07
milhouseWas he hoping to blend in?02:08
zerojayHe might have been able to stop this:
rhykini wonder if os2008 will support eap-tls02:09
rhykinif the certificate manager had some work :)02:09
zerojayI'm half tempted to take all the phones we have at work and just dump them on people and take pictures of them.02:10
zerojaylike "help, I'm drowning in Nokiaaaaasssss!!!"02:10
zerojayNot sure if 350 phones would be enough though.02:10
unique311please view02:13
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unique311i get those in my yahoo mail  alot.02:16
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ol_schoolamilhouse: you think the rotating camera could be removed and a 2.5 mm video jack be put in place of it?02:31
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milhousei guess anything is possible... a good chance you might end up with a dead N800 though :)02:39
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l7hmm, a 2.5mm video jack is an interesting idea...02:41
l7how much video can you fit in a 8gb card though?02:41
l7or even a 32gb one02:41
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ol_schoolasorry, i was afk. i want to use it with a chip camera mounted on  the end of a stick as an inspection camera02:56
ol_schoolathe usb port won't do host controller so i'm currently screwed02:56
ol_schoolai was going to hack apart a webcam02:56
alteregoYou can enable USB OTG mode.03:02
alteregoAs far as a 2.5m video jave.03:03
infobotA console cd-ripper written in python. URL:
alteregoThat'll never work. I'm guessing the camera is cmos ..03:03
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rhysUKMP download gives a 500 internal server error from maemo.org04:34
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rhyscan anyone make sure it isnt just something with my network?04:36
rhysim assuming 500 error isnt my fault04:37
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FMzHrmm..  When i try to make a video call from my n800 to a PC with Google Talk, it says that the PC side doesn't support video...05:02
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astro76I've read that it only works n800 to n800, not sure really05:08
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FMzI swear this thing was touted as being able to make n800 to PC video calls.05:22
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l7                                                                                             [B[Bwhat thing?05:23
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lord_moonrakerGreetings all05:25
FMzI bought it now so I could video chat with my girlfriend while I am in Denver05:25
l7does it work?05:26
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FMzApparently video chat only works between 2 nSeries... and I'm sure not going to buy her one.05:27
l7can't you skype her?05:27
FMzYeah, but video still doesnt work05:27
l7hrm, is there something wrong with the n800's skype client?05:29
FMzKinda feelin gypped on that05:29
FMzI dont believe so05:29
l7it just doesn't do video yet?05:29
l7The only thing missing from the N800 Skype client is support for video chat using the N800's built-in video camera. Perusal of the skype-ui package's dependencies on the N800 reveals that it uses the Farsight audio/video communications framework, which means that video support could potentially be added in a future update.05:31
l7Is there anyway to have video chat between the N800 and a PC? I read05:33
l7Nokia Internet Call Invitation (Beta) was removed with the latest firmware (not that I had any luck with that)05:33
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lord_moonrakerskype doesnt have a video in linux till now, they just got out with a video linux version05:44
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Abulafiais there a higher cap battery that fits in the n800?05:48
FMz_So, Skype video desktop to n800 works?05:49
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lord_moonrakerthey havent released  maemo version yet05:58
lord_moonrakerif you are desperate for video, i think there is some version of a chat client called gizmo project that does video06:01
FMz_I can't seem to find the right versions of Gizmo... everyone on the forum is talking about almost getting it working with Gizmo 4... but I can't find a Gizmo version 4 anywhere, all I can find is 3.106:02
FMz_I'm not desperate... just a little disappointed that I can't use this in the way I rushed to get it for.06:03
rhykinastro76: what distro do you recommend06:03
rhykinwhat distro of linux does anyone recommend06:03
rhykinwith the maemo sdk06:03
_Monkeyit has been said that ubuntu is alright06:04
lord_moonrakeri had been disappointed that video to pc's where not there06:04
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lord_moonrakerbut its other uses it has for me, far outweighs the lack of video in chat & jerky youtube video06:05
FMz_What do you use it for most?06:08
lord_moonrakerkeeping up to date on the net, chat, maps/gps, music, watching video's using mplayer, writing notes at office during conferences, recording audio06:09
lord_moonrakerand best of all hacking - (
DeLeOnhello, I'm new on this of maemo, i'm installing chinook, I got selected for the n810 device program, and I can't wait to have the n810 and merge fully into this... :D06:11
FMz_Liking the sound of that heh06:11
zerojayYou're installing Chinook? How?06:11
DeLeOnwell... the SDK06:11
lord_moonrakerhey cool, DeLeOn, welcome to the club!06:11
lord_moonrakerare u starting on some project?06:12
FMz_Does this thing support .bashrc exports?06:12
DeLeOnlord_moonraker: thanks... I hope to be here very often (hopefully helping and not doing a lot of questions)06:13
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DeLeOnlord_moonraker: I'm just beginning with this, so I don't know, I first need to have the N810 in my hands to see what can I do... I hope to help with some porting, I thought of porting "cheese" the "photoboot" clone for gnome06:14
shackanmm, there's a camera app already06:15
itnomadSorry for the newbie question. If i use scp from an xterm, I can get a file from my desktop computer to my n800. pwd reveals I am in /home/user. I can't see any other folders than MyDocs, apps, and the file that I copied. How do I get the file into the Documents folder, or maybe on to mmc1?06:15
DeLeOnshackan: mmm then I'll think in another stuff hehehe...06:16
lord_moonrakerhmm ya, there is one, too bad they didnt put in a 2MP camera in N810 :(06:17
lord_moonrakeritnomad, the folder is  MyDocs/.documents06:19
lord_moonrakeror /media/mmc1 or mmc206:19
rhykinhow can i install ubuntu on vmware06:20
rhykinwhich vmware would i need to get?06:20
itnomadlord_moonraker: thanks, I found those, but I can't get to the file from the "Desktop". It doesn't show up in the file manager.06:20
itnomadonly from the xterm.06:20
lord_moonrakerwell copy the file to /media/mmc1 and check memory card folder?06:21
DeLeOnby the way, does someone here knows something about "Aricent"? is an india company that does software for mobiles06:23
itnomadlord_moonraker: thanks, that did it.06:23
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itnomadI was drawing a blank06:23
lord_moonrakeraricent? i think it was Hughes/flextronics06:24
DeLeOnlord_moonraker: yes, something like that... is that they opened an office in my city, and they are hiring,... and made me an offer...06:25
DeLeOnbut still don't know if i'll take it06:25
lord_moonrakeroh r u in b'lore?06:27
DeLeOnlord_moonraker: no, Monterrey Mexico06:27
DeLeOnwe are getting invaded by india companies, hehehe sasken, aricent and wipro came here in the last years...06:28
lord_moonraker: ) I am invading too06:30
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DeLeOnlord_moonraker: where r u from? india?06:30
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DeLeOnlord_moonraker: working for any of this companies?06:32
rhykini figured it out06:32
rhykinis there a way to install apps to your internal memory card06:34
rhykininstead of like06:34
rhykinon the internal memory itself06:34
itnomadMonterrey kidding!06:35
elbI just roasted a mexican coffee, for whatever that's worth ;-)06:36
Mascaelb: are you in every channel over freenode and oftc ??06:37
elbno ;-)06:37
elbI just joined this one, as I'll be getting an 810 soon, and I hope to do some development06:37
Mascame to =)06:37
elb(Pidgin, among other things, of course)06:37
Mascaelb: pidgin is ported on maemo06:38
DeLeOnitnomad: you are in monterrey?06:38
lord_moonrakerrhykin: what happened r u low on space?06:38
Mascabut if you need help in something with pidgin+nokia810 I can help you06:38
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lord_moonrakeri think u need to free up space or install /dual boot onto the mmc06:39
shackanelb: pidgin already works great :)06:40
rhykinlord_moonraker: i would assume i would at some point ;)06:40
lord_moonrakerdeleon: no tata06:40
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Mascaelb: told you ;-)06:42
elbMasca, shackan: yes, I have worked with the porter (_|Nix|_)06:42
elbPidgin on Linux already runs, too -- that doesn't mean it's *done*06:42
Mascaohh _|Nix|_ is everywhere to =S06:42
shackanmm, I don't know what's missing06:42
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Mascaa wireless crack ;-) to be connected on every wireless we touch06:43
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elbnix's work has been mostly UI fixes06:44
elbsince Pidgin really wasn't designed with a finger-touch screen in mind06:44
lord_moonrakerdeleon: what do u work in? c, or scripts?06:45
DeLe0nyes, i was talking with Masca about that, do you think its possible to make "aircrack" work on the N810?06:45
Mascalord_moonraker: we work in C06:45
DeLe0nlord_moonraker: mergin into C...06:45
Mascayes, he is a noob =P06:46
* Masca is a noob to06:46
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shackanaircrack is going to kill the poor battery tough :D06:47
Mascashackan: but will give you internet acess06:48
DeLe0nshackan: but it would be nice to have access "everywhere"06:48
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shackangood luck breaking WEAP then06:48
lord_moonrakerk I was trying to get some devs for new progs for 81006:49
shackanthey're becoming very common06:49
dragornunless someone has rewritten the wireless drivers (which afaik they haven't), you won't be able to do injection, which makes aircrack pretty useless06:50
dragornptw would be feasible on that processor probably, but without injection... no.06:50
lord_moonrakerthese seems to be enough unencrypted wifi's around it seems to get u connected anywhere06:51
shackanso unless you live in a country like finland, forget about "everywhere" :)06:51
Mascaso, we need some wireless drivers rewrite ...06:51
Mascashackan: finland ?06:51
_Monkeyi think finland is closed in July due to holidays. Please come back later ;)06:51
lord_moonrakeri.e. in us06:52
shackanMasca: just to say a place with a big wifi penetration06:52
DeLe0nshackan: i know... but here in Mexico we have just like 1 hotspot in the whole country haha06:52
shackanwell, at least with the gps you can find it quicker :P06:53
DeLe0nmasca: we could go to the macroplaza when we get the N810's to show off... theres a hotspot there hahaha06:54
MascaDeLe0n: really ??  in a restaurant or on the plaza ?06:54
shackanyeah, show it off, best way to get robbed :D06:54
DeLe0nmasca: in the whole place... i think cause of the gov offices06:55
Mascaohh  one thing to thank the gov06:55
DeLe0nshackan: they would thought we stole the N810's...  hahaha06:55
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DeLe0ng2g chat u later...07:01
DeLe0ngoin out for beer07:01
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Mascayes, beer time07:01
ol_schoolawhoa. sandisk ultra II 2Gb mini sd is 13 pounds in UK and 50-79 dollars US. unbelievable07:11
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lord_moonrakerhmm, i got the pqi 2gb for 15$07:18
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ol_schoolaah, the one i was looking at is supposedly wicked fast
ol_schoolathat helps a lot when offloading photos (nikon raw) to the laptop07:29
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ol_schoolai'm hoping an SD->CF adapter won't bottleneck. we'll see. if it works, i can do on-the-fly edits without the heavy as macbook in my backpack07:31
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ol_schoolaone (miniSD) card to rule them all07:31
lord_moonrakeri hope the mini sd cards become cheaper soon,07:32
metatronsigh, I was ambivalent, but I think I'm liking the n800 over the n810.07:33
lord_moonrakern810 do come with 2gb07:34
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ol_schoolai'm kinda leary of the 810's cap at 10Gb. map data seems to be HUGE and i want to carry some music with lots of space for photos07:37
ol_schoolai've only had 800 for a week so i'm not certain how it's going to load up under normal use yet07:38
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lord_moonrakerbe wary of the media crawler, it starts searching for media files and use up cpu07:40
lord_moonrakertrying to update its database07:41
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ol_schoolamedia crawler? the built-in media center?07:44
lord_moonrakerya, i think its metacrrawler07:44
ol_schoolashall i go looking for a daemon to slay?07:45
captlloydHmm, 2 more weeks until I get my N81007:45
captlloydwhat to do until then?07:45
ol_schoolahah. i've been waiting forever for a wide angle f2.8 lens from nikon so i bought a n800 to distract me07:46
ol_schoolabit off more than i can chew! my mythtv systemj is learing at me in the corner of the room, prolly feels neglected :)07:47
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captlloydI looked into getting Internet access by using my mobile phone as a modem.07:49
captlloydI don't think there's a way I can do it here for less than $60/month07:50
captlloydat least there's wifi most places I go07:50
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timelyxol_schoola: fwiw the map data i wanted w/ maemo mapper fit on a 1gb card08:20
timelyxthe n810 street maps for usa are something like 1.5g combined (east+west)08:20
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metatronare there china maps?08:24
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timelyxnow that's a question i haven't seen before08:26
* timelyx gets a binary limitation of liability08:27
timelyxfollowed by a binary eula08:27
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timelyxnote that your map options may vary, as they aren't built into the device, it has to ask the internet for the list08:28
timelyxtoday the closest it has are turkey and the middle east. no russia/india/australia/japan/china08:29
timelyxplease remember that the device is not targeted at china08:29
timelyxwe aren't shipping chinese (or japanese or korean or thai) input methods08:29
timelyxthe device doesn't go through qa for any such languages (closest is cyrillic/russian, and that isn't close)08:30
timelyxafaik we don't ship fonts for any of those (you can of course download fonts, someone may even make packages to help you)08:30
timelyxthere's also no guarantee that installing fonts won't panic/root/reboot your device :)08:31
timelyx(fonts tend to do that sort of thing to desktop os's :)08:31
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timelyxheh, they don't have map coverage south of the border (mexico, south america)08:34
zorantimelyx, is there any change in servers configuration, regarding access privilage?08:35
zoranI have strange error trying to reach servers08:35
zoransome 10 days ago I stopped to get files via browser and app manager on 77008:36
timelyxare you using ip over avian carrier?08:36
zoranerror mess was "authorization request" etc08:36
zorandomain is "yu"08:36
zoranall providers from that domain have no ability to get maemo files08:37
zoranI ssh to remote box and get files as it should08:37
timelyxsorry, i'm confused08:37
zoranme too08:37
timelyxgive me precise steps to reproduce08:37
timelyxyou have 5mins, else i'm physically leaving08:37
timelyx(well, i'm physically leaving either way)08:38
timelyxare you saying you're *physically* somewhere and you think it matters?08:38
zoranI can't refresh app lists on 77008:38
zorancan't get new files from servers08:39
zoranI filed a bug report08:39
zorando you need traceroute output of my ip address?08:39
timelyxi'll take the bug id08:40
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zoranweb, servers or something liek that08:41
timelyxbug numbers should have 4 digits08:43
zoranyes, cannot recall now08:43
zoranin web section08:43
timelyxhow about your login?08:43
zerojayClick on My Bugs.08:44
zoranshould I login now?08:44
timelyxzerojay: won't work if it's unco :)08:44
zerojayOh really?08:44
timelyxzoran: at this point, you have 1 min to tell me your login name08:44
zerojaywtf is a "yu" domain?08:46 or blahblah.yu?08:46
zoranformer yugoslavia08:46
timelyxattach the web page the web browser sees08:46
timelyxit should have a footer08:46
timelyxfooters sometimes are useful08:46
timelyxe./g. they might list a proxy server08:46
timelyxzerojay: can you monitor some of those components and start whacking reporters until they actually give useful reports?08:47
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timelyxzoran: sorry, time expired. i don't care. but your bug won't improve until you do such things08:47
_Monkeyit has been said that tomorrow is fine, just as the next week and...08:47
zerojaytimelyx: I'll have my shovel with me.08:48
zoranshould I give more info?08:48
zorandon't want to bother08:48
* timelyx passes zerojay a bucket of aspirin 08:49
zerojayThe tablets never were released in Japan, were they?08:50
zorantimelyx, done08:50
timelyxzerojay: correct08:50
timelyxzoran: at this point, you're being managed by zerojay08:50
zerojaySo it's pretty doubtful we're going to see Japanese FM radio frequencies added to the FM radio program. ;)08:51
timelyxgiven that the people who make it are in oulu,fi?08:51
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timelyxwould you expect kanji listings?08:53
timelyxbecause afaik you can't get the listings in French08:54
zoranzerojay, enough info for now?08:54
zerojayNo, this bug was complaining that the FM radio tuner can't tune into Japanese stations because the frequencies used for radio there are different than the EU/US standards.08:54
zerojayEven though the chip supports it with a bit flip.08:55
zerojayzoran: I'll look in a sec.08:55
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zerojayPerhaps Nokia's blocked out countries they knew they didn't sell in...08:57
zoranI think so, also08:57
zoranI bought it over 4 countries and 7 people08:57
zerojayHow many .yu domains have you tried it on?08:58
alpzerojay: there is a rounding bug in the algorithm the proprietary tuner app uses08:58
alpzerojay: we don't have the problem in the managed tuner08:58
zoranbut I need my home provider's domain in usage08:58
zerojayTry putting in the .yu domains you tried from as well as a few that did work for you.08:59
zerojayalp: "managed tuner"?08:59 and
zoranteh first one is my home domain08:59
zerojayzoran: Add them to the bug. Add in just about anything that even remotely could be helpful.09:00
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zerojayI was going to say that maybe it was your servers blocking them, but then you probably wouldn't be getting those error messages.09:00
zoranerror number is 40109:00
alpzerojay: when they noticed the FM chip i hacked up a c# tuner app for the N800, it's on somewhere09:00
zoranyes, I think nokia changes something09:00
zerojayalp: And it works with Japanese frequencies?09:01
alpzerojay: i don't think anyone has tried, but the tuner scans at steps that work better in some countrie09:02
zerojayalp: Have you reported this rounding bug?09:02
alpzerojay: i have no way to confirm it exists in the proprietary tuner because there's no source code09:02
alpso it's just conjecture09:03
zerojayAnd your program doesn't have the same problem?09:03
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alpzerojay: i think this might have been the fix,;a=commitdiff;h=94b475d5 -- it's been months, i really don't remember09:06
zerojayIf you're up to the task, file a bug so that the people with access to the code for the FM tuner can take a look at it.09:08
alpzerojay: i think it's more effective to provide open, peer reviewed replacements for proprietary components09:09
alpit's difficult to fix a fairly subtle rounding bug like this or even confirm that it exists when you don't have access to the sources09:10
zoranzerojay, I filed comments for #2237. something more needed?09:10
zerojayalp: Agreed, but you have to understand that Nokia's a company that's been used to years and years of everything being closed off and they were successful with it... they're working on opening up further, give it time.09:10
zerojayAlso remember that all code has to go through tons of legal crap before it's released as well.09:10
zerojayalp: File the bug. Tell them you want to see the code and they might make it happen.09:11
alpzerojay: i understand very well. i'm working to provide replacements for the proprietary browser and have hacked on various other cool stuff since Maemo came out ;-)09:11
zerojayWell, once IT2008 hits, there won't be a proprietary browser anymore.09:11
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alpi don't think MicroB is a competent replacement, but i guess i'm highly opinionated ;-)09:12
zerojayzoran: I guess that'll work. We'll see.09:12
zerojayalp: What's incompetent about it? :)09:13
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zerojayIt's going to be interesting to see how the first official release (all others were beta) as part of IT2008 works out, especially with the +70mhz speed jump.09:14
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zerojayMy only real problem is that it's a little slow and sometimes crashes.09:16
zerojaySlower still with Greasemonkey scripts.09:16
alpzerojay: sorry, was doing interactivity benchmarks. i think it is a shame to replace Opera with a slower and less capable browser, that's all. more of my thoughts are here:
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zerojayUgh.. Webkit.09:38
zerojayI wish they didn't change the name.09:39
Luriaslower without a doubt, but less capable?09:39
zerojayOpera was far less capable.09:39
zerojayAnd old as hell.09:39
Luriaand totally useless with google09:39
Luriathat said, i like the choice of engines09:39
zerojayHaving Webkit for the tablets would be great... I just wish they kept the KHTML name.09:42
Luriai really like browser.garage's design09:42
Luriatoo geeky09:43
Luriaand the whole k* thing can be annoying09:43
alpzerojay: i have not said this before since i was indirectly paid by Nokia at the time, but the browser abstraction layer was hard-coded to support either MicroB or Opera. the whole idea of browser choice was a sham (maybe it has changed now)09:44
Luriai wish you could edit/switch the user agent for the browser. sigh.09:44
Luriaalp: that's dumb. abstraction is a cool idea.09:45
zerojayIf you reflashed and didn't install microb, you'd sometimes get a different set of menu items allowing you to do stuff like enable/disable javascript for all sites or just google.. but it also allowed you to switch engines.09:45
zerojayEngines listed, Opera, MicroB, and Webkit (greyed out).09:45
zerojaySo I believe we're getting it eventually.09:45
alpzerojay: do you know how we added WebKit support to the EAL? with a binary hex editor09:47
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zerojayNot a surprise, to be honest with you.09:47
zerojayalp: Got anything released yet?09:47
alpit's funny to hear about this great open development platform and then have to hex edit proprietary abstraction layers to offer an alternative09:48
romaxa_alp: mda09:48
alpzerojay: i'm not working on the project any more. i think there has been one commit to the EAL repository in the last month, which was to remove an unfinished feature09:48
alpi think there is still potential for a replacement browser but we need a better strategy than the hacks :-)09:50
zerojayMaybe IT2008 will loosen the reigns.09:50
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alpromaxa_: nda? the work i'm talking about was done in spare time as proof of concept09:52
zerojayalp: Have you talked with timeless here before?09:53
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alpzerojay: i don't remember it being very productive09:53
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romaxa_alp: where I can find working Gtk+ application based on webkit?09:58
romaxa_alp: sources..09:58
_Monkeysources are there.. you can compile that09:58
romaxa_I was compiling Webkit for Nxxx ~2 years ago... it was really shit...10:00
alpromaxa_: that's funny. we only really started the gtk+ port a year ago10:00
romaxa_I was compiling some sources ~ 3 month ago... - nothing was changed10:00
alpmaybe you are thinking of gtk-webcore?10:00
romaxa_alp: maybe10:01
romaxa_alp: gtk-webcore was very small, at least 2 years ago...10:02
alpgtk-webcore is a different project based on a years-old codebase. i don't know much more than that10:03
romaxa_alp:size of current webkit ~10Mb10:03
romaxa_alp: depend on sqlite, cairo..... - I guess it is current webkit?10:03
alpright. SVG, canvas, database, new CSS features all add up but can be disabled at configure time to cut the build to ~6M10:04
romaxa_alp: I was testing on N800 some webkit port... ~ 2-3 month ago... it was unstable, slow, and without any features...10:05
romaxa_alp: I was using
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alpno features? there are some gaps in SVG coverage because the cairo svg backend isn't complete, but i can't imagine how you got a build with no features..10:10
alpanyway, i think it's more interesting to put real builds side by side. this conversation is not productive ;-)10:10
romaxa_alp: ./WebKitTools/Scripts/build-webkit -qmakearg=WEBKIT_INC_DIR=$PREFIX/include/WebKit -qmakearg=WEBKIT_LIB_DIR=$PREFIX/lib --gdk10:11
romaxa_alp: I have build it so..10:11
alpromaxa_: the "gdk" bit suggests that the build was done before it was even officially the "gtk+" port10:11
alpromaxa_: i think there are some pretty favourable benchmarks. i'll see if i can get permission to blog them10:16
alp(from Trolltech)10:17
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czrJaffa, 'janne johansson' on devml says that dist-upgrade should be possible (don't know if you noticed)10:24
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timelyxalp: i can see the sources to the proprietary tuner11:14
timelyxtell me what to look for, i'll look11:14
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timelyxLuria: you can switch the useragent, it's gecko, you change it the same way you would11:22
timelyxfor any gecko11:22
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kulvehmm.. Anybody else having problems logging to
timelyxas of when?11:32
kulveno matter what I do, it just says "The username or password you entered is not valid."11:32
timelyxi'd have to know my password11:33
* timelyx doesn't want to do that11:33
kulveI can log to garage just fine, but not to bugzilla..11:34
timelyxthey're independent11:34
timelyxzoran: why did you spam 2242?11:34
kulveit sure does seem so11:34
timelyxlogin worksforme11:36
kulveah, they *are* independent ;)11:36
timelyxyes, 100%11:36
timelyxdifferent userlist, different password list11:36
kulveI've changed the passwd for garage, but though somehow that it's the same for bugzilla..11:36
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timelyxif switches to ldap, bugzilla could be migrated to use it11:37
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zchydem_homegood morning folks.. is there a documentation of the maemo platform? Actually I'm interested in about the system boot, logs, scripts, how to disable matchbox and hildon framework etc..12:21
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kulveI'm not sure if there are documentation about those, but log in with ssh and experiment..12:27
kulveif you install syslog, it tells quite much12:27
kulveand iirc, there are even startup scripts for the hildon af, so it should be easy to disable it12:27
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zchydem_homeok, thanks12:29
kulvethat's something you should check out12:32
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kulvezchydem_home: and remember that some of the services are already started from initfs which is mounted to /mnt/initfs12:37
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zchydem_homekulve, ok12:43
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lord_moonraker                                                                `12:58
ilrepoporblems? :)12:59
trulsit's all adding up12:59
kaltsihe's being positive12:59
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Mascawhat ! ???12:59
* ilrepo waits for excess flood12:59
* Masca add 2 or more +12:59
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unique311fell asleep on the damn keyboard or something13:06
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kpelhi all13:07
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kpelif I want to install Chinook do I have to manually uninstall any previous SDK?13:17
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* DRoBeR is back :)14:43
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alteregoAnyone know what the idea behind 'hd_plugin_get_objects' is?14:45
* alterego is confused.14:45
alteregoI _think_ it's so a plugin can create multiple plugins ..14:46
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m-lundHi there: Anyway I can emulate the Nokia N810 experience on my PC before actually buying a N810?15:12
m-lundI mean with Qemu or stuff like that?15:12
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kpelm-lund: perhaps you could try the SDK (Chinook)15:16
m-lundkpel: Will that give me a complete emulator?15:16
kpelm-lund: it will give you a desktop to run maemo apps. Read this:
m-lundkpel: Okay, thanks alot.15:17
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kpelobviously things like the camera, the integration with web services etc won't be simulated15:18
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m-lundkpel: fair enough.15:18
kpelm-lund: to be honest the sdk doesn't do justice to the tablet's look and feel. If I had tried the SDK before buying an N800 I wouldn't buy the tablet at all and that would be a shame imho. Your best choice is to go to a Nokia shop and ask them to show you a tablet.15:20
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kpelin a few weeks N810 will be in the stores.15:20
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m-lundkpel: From what I've hear from users with the N800, they all seem to be very satisfied. So i might just order one up front.15:20
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m-lundkpel: It will be a nice MythTV frontend.15:21
alteregoThe SDK is just an environment to test applications you're developing. It doesn't really show how the tablet works or operates in person.15:21
kpelm-lund: I for one am very happy with my N800 :)15:21
alteregoYeah, I love m N80015:21
kpeli can even play the secret of monkey island on it!15:21
alteregoI'm gonna love my N810 more though me thinks ;)15:21
m-lundSo are you both going to upgrade it?15:21
m-lundN900 > N810?15:21
alteregoYeah, I got accepted into the device program so I get an N810 super cheap.15:22
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kpeli can't afford a second tablet so soon. i bough my n800 in september.15:22
alteregokpel, me too :)15:22
m-lundalterego: Great, sounds cool.15:22
alteregoLucky for the device program ^_^15:22
alteregoI wouldn't have got one either.15:22
alteregoI've only had my tablet ~3 months now.15:23
kpelalterego: what is the device program? some internal nokia thing?15:23
alteregoIt's in the announcements.15:23
alteregoSo far everytime a tablet has been released they've been giving out discounts to developers, so they can purchase the devices at ~99 EUR.15:23
alteregoThis year with the N810 they had 500 units on discount and the program was open to anyone. Not just developers.15:24
m-lundI'm a bit curious how it will handle remote X-applications?15:25
alteregoNever tried it.15:25
m-lundforwarded through ssh connections.15:25
m-lundThis way I can run Open Office from my server.15:25
zerojayUnless it's VNC, forget about that.15:25
m-lundTried out the resolution in Xnest. It's actually good enough for typing.15:25
alteregoUnfortunately OOo doesn't handle stylus input.15:26
alteregoThat'd be my guess ..15:26
m-lundZero_Dogg: It won't be able to handle remote X? Because of the Window-manager?15:26
alteregoYeah, VNC would be a better bet.15:26
alteregom-lund, it's not just the window manager. It's the input methods too.15:26
m-lundalterego: Okay - but I will have to try it anyway :)15:27
alteregoWhat programs do you use in OOo?15:27
alteregoYou can get gnumeric and abiword for the devices.15:27
m-lundalterego: Yeah, I know. But I think they will fuck up the ODF-documents (not sure, though)15:28
alteregoDon't use ODF then ..15:28
m-lundWhat about freeNX instead of VNC?15:28
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alteregoAgain, I don't know.15:28
alteregoNever even heard of FreeNX15:28
eichithe new maemo mapper is slower then the older version...maybe couse if the database..15:28
m-lundalterego: Okay, just have to try it out though15:28
alteregoeichi, it's not the database. Read his release notes.15:29
dockanei use postershop and canon network scangear on a windows box via vnc.. works15:29
alteregoUse google apps ^_^15:29
eichialterego, where can i find them? i search simething like this at the moment15:30
kpelalterego: i guess it's not possible to request a tablet now right? i can't do that in my profile.15:30
alteregoOn the project homepage?15:30
alteregokpel, no. Too late unfortunately.15:30
alteregokpel, maybe you could try next time :)#15:30
kpelalterego: yeah, probably :)15:32
eichidepends on your personal tastes, but the15:32
eichicombination of database use and rotational15:32
eichifunctionality have slowed down screen drawing15:32
kpelalterego: if i want to install chinook do i have to manually remove the previous sdk?15:33
eichithats it15:33
alteregokpel, the previous beta chinook SDK?15:33
kpelalterego: i don't think it's chinook but an older one (any way to find out?)15:34
alteregoThen no, you don't need to.15:34
kpelwill chinook be installed on top of the old one?15:35
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alteregoThey've changed the SDK naming conventions thank god :)15:36
kpelso in order to have only chinook installed how do i get rid of the old sdk?15:36
kpeldo i just remove those debian packages?15:36
alteregosb-conf remove SDK_ARMEL15:37
alteregoand: sb-conf remove SDK_X8615:37
kpelah, from within the emulator?15:38
kpelok thanks15:38
alteregoFrom within scratchbox.15:38
alteregoIt's not an emulator.15:38
kpelmy bad.15:39
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jjoyou can also use sb-menu to remove the targets if you are unsure of the target names ;)15:53
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alteregosb-conf list --targets15:59
Sho_By the way, is the "2 GB Flash" of the N810 built into the device in addition to the miniSD slot, or is Nokia simply bundling a 2GB miniSD with the device, i.e. the 2GB actually fill the slot?16:02
alteregoSho_, it's build in. There is no bundled memory card.16:02
infobotalterego meant: Sho_, it's built in. There is no bundled memory card.16:02
Sho_infobot: Ah, ok. I saw a walkthrough video on Internet Tablet Talk where someone was demoing the N810 with a 2GB microSD in a miniSD adapter while mumbling something about "the card I got with [incomprehensible]", so I was wondering16:03
Sho_err, alterego, not infobot ;)16:04
Sho_(in his defense, my laptop speakers are just plain horrible, so he might in fact be speaking clearly)16:06
alteregoYou should use a decent pair of headphones or something.16:06
alteregoHmm, require 'hildon-desktop' or 'hildon_desktop' or 'hildon/desktop'16:07
alteregoI think I prefer the later.16:07
danielsjust to debunk something asserted earlier, dist-upgrade from itos2007 to itos2008 is _not_ possible.  sucks, but c'est la vie.16:14
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alteregoIs there an extras-devel repository yet?16:24
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Andy80lot of people are asking me: what will be the price (in euro or dollar) of the upcoming N810?16:30
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astro76Andy80, in USD, sounds like ~ $480 to 50016:31
Andy80mmm... about 349 € then...16:32
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ab"It is expected to start shipping mid November with an estimated retail price of 479 USD (excluding local taxes)."16:34
timelyxAndy80: it doesn't work that way16:37
timelyxit'll probably be 475 USD or 475 EUR16:37
timelyxor 9, whichever16:38
timelyxnote that in the states you pay sales tax (sometimes)16:38
timelyxin europe, VAT is included16:38
astro76typically 6-8% in the US16:38
Andy80ah ok16:38
alteregoHey timelyx16:38
_Monkeyhmmm... timelyx is timelyx's mac, it has scrollback16:38
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alteregoshuddup monkey16:38
timelyxhrm, that's not quite right16:38
Andy80here IVA (something like the VAT) is 20% -__-16:38
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alteregoDepending on the price, I might just get my dad one for Christmas and hold on to my N800 ;)16:39
alteregoI really _really_ love my N80016:39
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zerojayThe card slot on the N810 is a micro or mini SD?16:42
db48xwhat's the easiest way to compile something to be used with maemo-invoker/maemo-summoner?16:42
astro76zerojay, mini16:44
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zerojayCrap.. I want this microSD 6GB card, but it doesn't come with a mini adapter.16:46
timelyxdb48x: redefine main to whatever_main, and compile it as a .so instead of a binary16:46
db48xtimeless: so just add a -shared to gcc?16:47
timelyxdon't forget to fix the entrypoint, but yeah, that sounds about right16:47
db48xsummoner source looks like just wants 'main'16:48
timelyxsounds wrong16:48
db48xwhat would the 'whatever' be?16:48
zerojayN810 supports microSDHC, right?16:49
timelyxhrm, maybe16:49
astro76zerojay, yes with a mini adapter16:49
timelyxdb48x: ok16:50
timelyxmy memory must be rusty16:50
timelyxi know i tried chasing this stuff once before16:50
timelyx"documentation" :)16:52
db48xI can't wait until we have mobile devices that run normal operating systems, without all this cruft16:53
db48xtimelyx: heh16:53
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alteregolauncher and summoner will be deprecated soon I think.16:56
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alteregoHildon is starting to become a lot nicer to play with.17:00
alteregoShame it's really poorly documented :/17:00
alteregoAt least at the level I'm attempting to get in to.17:00
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alteregoYah for consistant naming conventions O_O17:11
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db48xhah, maemo-summoner does fail to pass along the commandline arguments17:13
alteregoIt's like looking at a repeat performance of the first hildon releases ^_^17:13
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db48xargv contains three empty strings17:13
alteregoDid you pass 3 empty strings?17:13
db48xrather than the executable name and the two args I'm passing in17:13
alteregoThat's interesting.17:14
alteregoMaybe they're nullified.17:14
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czrresistance is futile. your stack will be zeroed?17:20
sp3000db48x: ?17:21
db48xsp3000: that sounds hopeful17:22
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db48xkinda funny to be finding it via ohloh though17:25
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db48xmore unmet build dependencies17:31
alteregodb48x, do what I did. Just give up! :)17:31
alteregoActually, I submitted a bug report and moved on to something else until it's resolved.17:32
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db48xI don't really have that option17:36
db48xwell, I suppose I do, but then I don't get paid17:37
db48xso, what apt repository is libhildon*-dev supposed to come from?17:37
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alteregorepository.maemo.org17:38 is ok17:38
db48xdeb bora free non-free17:38
alteregoWell, mines chinook.17:38
lautijust for interest: can any one tell me how this weird linking of the scratchbox directory inside of a user's home directory is achieved? It looks like a hard-link but these are not possible for directories are they?17:39
alteregolauti, which directory are you talking about?17:40
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lautithe content of the inner scratchbox directory is actually the content of the outer one... actually an infinite recursion ;-)17:41
alteregoYeah, I'm not sure how that's done.17:41
lautifind -samefile also warned about this...17:41
lautithat's crazy, isn't it?17:41
lautiit's not a soft link this is ure17:41
db48xThe following packages will be REMOVED:17:43
db48x  hildon-control-panel hildon-control-panel-navigatorapplet hildon-fm-dev hildon-fm1 hildon-lgpl-dev id3search libconbtui0 libogs1.2-1 libosso-abook libosso-abook-dev libosso-certman117:43
db48x  libosso-video-invitation libossomime-dev libossomime0 maemo-af-desktop maemo-explicit maemo-games-startup-dev maemo-launcher maemo-select-menu-location mission-control-filters17:43
db48x  osso-addressbook osso-applet-certman osso-contact-plugin osso-esd-dev osso-help-ui osso-speeddial17:43
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db48xthat's interesting17:54
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db48xinstalling the new maemo-launcher deb made my n800 reboot17:54
db48xit's taking an awfully long time to come back up…17:57
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timelyxit would17:58
alteregoUh on :)17:58
timelyxmaemo-launcher is a system service17:58
db48xI think I killed it17:59
Cordlauti: thats a mount with option bind: /home/scratchbox on /home/scratchbox/users/cord/scratchbox type none (rw,bind)17:59
db48xthe startup progress bar is holding at 90% of the way17:59
timelyxis ssh enabled on your device?17:59
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db48xit's not responding though18:00
db48xcan't imagine why not18:00
zoranssh is not responding?18:01
zorando you have ip address?18:01
timelyxnice brick18:01
zorancould you make nmap search for it?18:01
db48xzoran: obviously it doesn't18:01
db48xit's not even finished booting yet18:01
db48xthough I rather suspect it's about as far along as it's going to get18:02
* timelyx sighs18:03
db48xok, so what's the approved procedure for upgrading things like this?18:03
timelyxeven w/ sdwilsh's help, i'm still behind18:03
timelyxtest in scratchbox first18:04
timelyxthen backup your device18:04
timelyxthen attach serial cable18:04
timelyxthen brick it18:04
timelyxthen reflash18:04
timelyxdon't tell me you forgot your serial cable :)18:04
db48xwasn't included18:04
db48xunless you mean usb18:04
timelyxno :)18:05
timelyxwell, did you at least test in scratchbox? :)18:05
db48xinstalling those build deps destroyed my scratchbox environment18:05
db48xit uninstalled af-maemo-desktop and so on18:05
timelyxthat wasn't a good hint that you had a problem? :)18:05
db48xit was a good hint that anything debian based sucks18:06
db48xheh, I can still access the memory card in the n80018:07
timelyxyou didn't get that hint from me a couple of years ago?18:07
* timelyx is so disappointed18:07
db48xguess that's autonomic18:07
db48xI remember you mentioning it18:07
db48xand I remember experiencing it every single time I've ever tried to use anything debian based18:08
db48xso I didn't read anything special into this particular example of it18:08
db48xnow, where did I put the flasher18:08
timelyxsomeday people will learn not to ignore me18:09
timelyxbut clearly i've been waiting many years for that day18:09
alteregoYou have a serial cable?18:10
timelyxpersonally, for the n810? no18:10
timelyxbut they technically exist18:10
alteregoHmmm ..18:10
timelyxnokia's a phone vendor first18:10
timelyxeach phone has a jig which has pins and power and some form of serial cable18:11
alteregoSure, I recognise the mbus port.18:11
alteregoI have an mbus cable somewhere.18:11
alteregoWithout knowing the protocols etc it's pretty useless with a tablet though :)18:11
timelyxpersonally my view is any software engineer above a certain level using the jig is doing something really wrong18:11
timelyxand db48x is well above that level18:12
alteregoI'm getting so many instruction errors from qemu.18:12
timelyxfwiw, i did actually write a patch to some of the code referenced in that ohloh commit :)18:12
alteregoWhat did nokia screw up with glibc?18:12
timelyxlast i checked qemu's abi support was at least one arm level less than the device18:13
timelyxand that used by the compiler :)18:13
alteregoThat's really usefull.18:13
timelyxuseful would be someone paying someone to fix qemu18:13
alteregoConsidering a lot of the tools needed to compiles packages are built in sbox first.18:13
timelyxdon't ask me if that's being done18:13
timelyxsimplest solution is to abandon scratchbox18:14
timelyxproper cross compiling would be better18:14
alteregoI wouldn't know where to begin.18:14
timelyxapt-get remove scratchbox18:14
alteregoSo this is a qemu issue?18:14
timelyxi'm not sure what you're seeing18:15
timelyxbut assuming i've picked the right problem, yes18:15
alteregoI just keep getting loads of unsupported instruction errors.18:15
timelyxthat'd match what i'm describing18:15
alteregoWell, that's not good ..18:16
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alteregoI have no chance of continuing with ruby-maemo if I can't even compile my software O_o18:16
timelyxglibc is open source, no?18:16
timelyxpresumably you can apt-get source18:16
timelyxand then rebuild w/ a qemu supported arm target18:17
timelyxbut it would seem odd for the sdk to not actually *work*18:17
alteregoWould a package built in that way still work on the device?18:17
timelyxtheoretically it should be slower18:17
alteregoI'll give it a go.18:18
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alteregoI'm gonna blame you if my computer explodes though :P18:18
timelyxif you aren't using vmware to host this stuff, you're nuts18:18
timelyxand i so don't support you :)18:18
db48xyou have to take out the battery just to download the latest firmware?18:18
timelyxfor n800?18:18
timelyxnot if it's bootable18:18
db48xoh, not on the n80018:18
timelyxabout in control panel has the answer18:18
db48xtimelyx: haha, very funny18:19
alteregoI'm not using VMWare :P18:19
timelyxalterego: your first mistake18:19
timelyxdb48x: confused18:19
alteregoIf my computer was capable I would ..18:19
alteregoI have a very shit computer.18:19
timelyxyou can grab any version you like if you have vpn18:19
timelyxi have a p2/450 and a g5/1.6ghz18:20
timelyxwhich of those is going to run scratchbox well?18:20
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db48xError reading FIASCO header: Success18:21
db48xit's a fiasco all right18:22
sp3000success not being a fiasco, that's one kind of consistent18:22
alteregoNeither. Unless you can get vmware for the g5 :P18:22
alteregoI just don't have enough RAM in this craptop.18:22
alteregoI'll buy a new laptop next week.18:22
timelyxi have 2 1/4 g in my mac18:22
alteregoNot sure I can keep on using this POS for much longer :)18:23
timelyx150mb free18:23
db48xah, I see18:23
sp3000that reminds me, I need to shop for some ram18:23
db48xI just hadn't quite finished downloading the file18:23
alteregoWhat are the chances of doing tablet dev on a mac?18:23
alteregoOoo .. With Hypervisor VM ..18:23
timelyxalterego: successfully at this point? not very good18:23
timelyxi looked at sb218:23
timelyxand it was really not ready18:24
alteregoI was thinking of using the vt extensions.18:24
timelyxso, is there a way to read planet or news based on Hearts? :)18:24
db48xalterego: I tried getting xen to work yesterday18:24
* timelyx only wants to read articles w/ 20 hearts :)18:24
alteregodb48x, Any luck?18:24
db48xnot really18:24
db48xthe gui control panel didn't always work (buttons that didn't do anything when you clicked them, for example), and the command line stuff sometimes hung forever trying to create a vm18:25
alteregoI have no idea how to select a qemu supported arm target ..18:25
* alterego looks up gcc arm stuff.18:26
* timelyx shrugs18:26
timelyxi'm not a build person :)18:26
JaffaEv'ning, all.18:27
* db48x picks a language18:28
timelyxooh, superman 2 is on18:28
JaffaKneel before Zod!18:28
timelyxHot dog? Hot dog.18:28
timelyxOh could I have some orange juice? Freshly squeezed...18:28
alteregoShame I can't do cputransp. That would solve my problems ..18:29
timelyxbah superman 2 gets the physics right18:29
Jaffaczr: there's also a post about it on the top of p.m.o at the moment :-)18:29
sp3000timelyx: I suppose18:29
timelyxhey, are they on the american or canadian side?18:29
* czr nods at jaffa18:30
sp3000for some definition of read18:30
sp3000unless 20+ hearts aims at 0 items :)18:31
timelyxsp3000: cool18:31
timelyxsp3000: *grumble* everywhere i look, i'm "timeless -"18:31
alteregoOkay, got that. Now how do I know which arch qemu will be good at?18:31
timelyxwhat kind of name is that?18:32
* timelyx should go back to tim eless18:32
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* Jaffa is now N800-less; having sold it to a very eager punter on ITT18:34
alteregoNO Jaffa !!!!18:34
JaffaI'll appreciate the N810 even more when it arrives having been deviceless for a week or two.18:35
alteregoWhen I recieved my N800 ~3 months back. IT was like love at first sight :)18:35
JaffaAndy80: thanks for the blog post (which is on pmo) saying dist-upgrade works :)18:35
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db48xtimeless: so why do you think installing this updated maemo-launcher failed?18:36
l7hey, is anyone running scratchbox on VMware?18:37
alteregoczr, you knew a little about this. I'm trying to compile glibc for a subarch better supported by qemu so I can build packages correctly. Do you know what subarch I should choose?18:37
Andy80Jaffa: nothing :) thanks to Janne Johansson that helpend me on the mailing list :)18:37
timelyxdid you lose all your packages?18:37
czralterego, armel? :-) I have no idea with arm18:37
alteregoI can't compile packages due to unknown instructions >:(18:38
db48xtimelyx: I lost a lot of stuff I had installed, yea18:38
itnomadbuilt in gps receiver!!!18:38
timelyxthat's probably not so good :)18:39
Andy80Jaffa: one little note.... the target's name remain the same.... SDK_BETA_x86 and SDK_BETA_ARM... I don't know how to rename them18:39
alteregoYou can rename them manuall.18:39
alteregoYou can rename them manually18:39
Andy80alterego: how?18:39
db48xI hadn't backed much of anything up18:39
timelyxalso not good :)18:40
alterego /scratchbox/users/*/targets18:40
alteregoYou need to change the .config file and rename the directory.18:40
db48xso, if installing this package causes the machine to reboot, the proper method would be to compose a new flash image and update my n800 with it, right?18:40
elbugh, why /scratchbox :-P18:41
timelyxdb48x: you could try to make sure you don't get other things replaced18:41
timelyxor removed18:41
alteregoelb, '/' is relative to the parent directory :P18:41
Andy80alterego: not so easy... there are a lot of links to fix and rename18:41
elbalterego: not if you use the .debs18:41
Andy80elb: I used .debs18:41
alteregoAndy80, oh. I just thought that'd work :)18:42
* timelyx shrugs18:42
alteregoAnyhow, I just edited the nokia installer scripts to install under - maemoX-sdk-armel18:42
elbAndy80: and installed to a different prefix?18:42
alteregoor i38618:42
zoranmaking environment variables could make an issue less annoying18:42
Andy80elb: and even after the upgrade, the name remain18:42
Andy80elb: no... I simply used the script provided by Maemo website18:42
Andy80and didn't change the prefix or path...18:43
elb(the comments in indicate that it installs to /scratchbox, and that's Just It)18:43
elbAndy80: so your install is in /scratchbox?18:43
Andy80elb: yes18:43
elbright ... not helpful to me18:43
elbI don't have enough space on /18:43
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timelyxcan't you make a mountpoint for /scratchbox ?18:44
* elb tries to trick it with a symlink18:44
Andy80one question: what is the difference, once I'm logged into my scratchbox environment, doing: apt-get install something or doing fakeroot apt-get install something ?18:44
timelyxthe former should fail? :)18:44
elbtimelyx: this is a laptop, and all available partitions are already mounted18:44
db48xnow my wifi doesn't work18:44
timelyxelb: bah, good luck w/ the symlink18:45
alteregodb48x, to a cold boot. Take out battery and wait a few seconds.18:45
db48xworks now18:46
db48xmust have been a fluke18:46
elbtimelyx: it's doing ... something ;-)18:46
* alterego cries.18:46
alteregoHow easy is it to make a scratchbox devkit? Like perl?18:47
astro76is there a trick to getting the battery out of an n800?18:47
zerojayUm.. you pull it out?18:47
alteregoastro76, take the back of and tap the front with your hand under the battery.18:47
alteregoThen catch18:47
timelyxbang the device against your hand18:47
zerojayYou could damage the battery with the screwdriver.18:47
astro76it won't come out with my fingernail, it's really tight18:47
astro76tapping is also unsuccessful18:48
zerojayMaybe I don't feel sympathetic because I spent about a year and a half pulling out phone batteries and swapping sims daily.18:48
alteregoI'm so crap. I've lost my stylus like 5 times today.18:48
db48xalterego: I keep doing that too18:49
alteregoIt just fell down the side of my bed this time :/18:49
alteregoIt's very annoying.18:51
alteregoI think I'm going to attach a bit of thread to if from my tablet :)18:51
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itnomadput a rubber band around your wrist and park your stylus there.18:54
alteregoI should just super glue it in place.18:54
alteregoUse it as a 5th finger.18:54
alteregoThe N800 stylus is super comfy compared the the 770's18:55
alteregoI wonder what the N810's will be like.18:55
itnomadI think everything about the n800 is better than the 77018:56
itnomadexcept maybe the appearance. I like the slick look of the 770.18:56
* alterego chuckles.18:56
alteregoI always thought the 770 looked like a toy.18:56
itnomadI fell off my chair when it showed up in that Blue Surfer movie.18:57
alteregoThe N800 is far more serious a device.18:57
timelyxyeah, nokia has some marketing connections18:57
itnomadtimelyx: indeed..thanks.18:57
alteregoThat was funny.18:57
timelyxi see lots of nokia phones placed in movies18:58
alteregoYeah, Matrix ..18:58
timelyxbut, i think that's basically money18:58
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timelyxotoh, it doesn't seem like nokia can get products placed in tv shows19:00
alteregoI came up with this cool idea for a desktop applet.19:00
alteregoHopefully I'll finish ruby-hildon-desktop this evening and be able to work on it.19:00
alteregoAfter I've released 0.3.0 for maemo4 ..19:01
itnomadI'd like to see a radar detector that pops up on the GPS screen of the n810 when needed19:01
timelyxthe chinook sdk got 1 thumbs down19:01
alteregoI'd say it's an improvement. Though, that's probably from an API perspective. It's hard to tell how things are working at lower lever.19:03
alteregoThough, there's a repeat of some bad practises from the old hildon api repeating in the new hildon-desktop API I noticed.19:04
alteregoOdd naming conventions.19:04
pupnik'lower lever' ... huhuhuh </beavis>19:04
alteregoWhich means, if they fix it like the did with the old oddities. Then there's another API break ..19:04
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xadaphi :)19:12
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pupnikgood $day19:15
* db48x yawns19:17
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* pupnik gives lardman 5 internets and a 'huzzah'19:20
db48xssh is timing out again19:26
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Monkulustimelyx, nokia's not so great at movie product placement.19:26
MonkulusAfter all, are they in Superman 2?  Does Zod conquer with the unholy union of IT and Symbian phone?  Does Superman kneel at the sight of a slide out keyboard?19:27
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LuriaI wonder if anyone paid for placement in Superman 4.  I would have sued for damages.19:28
pupnikwe saw 770 in a movie i think19:28
Luriapupnik, FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer.19:29
Luriait's Reed Richards's X10 controller, more or less.19:29
Luriaplus a world emergency rss feed.19:30
alteregoYeah, that was fun.19:30
LuriaI need that.19:30
pupnikHildon Input Method: Insensitive Press...19:32
Luriameh, I want my os 2008 already, so I can get the two  day long hassle of getting everything back to where it was over with.19:32
Luriai searched for "mass attraction" on wikipedia19:33
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Luriai think the search engine took it a bit too literally.19:34
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pupnikany thoughts about miniSD card brands?19:38
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maddlerpupnik: SanDisk...19:38
pupnikwow 2GB only 14 euro19:39
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killfillcna i install chincook on a N800?19:51
killfillcannot find the image(s)...19:51
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alteregokillfill, it's not out yet.19:52
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killfillanyone alife.. :)19:55
alteregoIt is not out yet.19:55
maddlerhmmm... did anyone noticed the N810's USB connector shape?19:55
maddlerkillfill: you gotta wait...19:56
alteregomaddler, it's smaller than the standard mini.19:56
alteregoMicroUSB probably ^_^19:56
maddleralterego: right...19:56
killfillah.. its just for 810 today isnit?19:56
alteregoIt looks identical though.19:56
alteregokillfill, no. It will be released for the N800 too. But it's not out yet!19:56
killfilloh.. wanted to add something funny to do this sunday.. :S19:57
hircusmaddler: it's confirmed to be micro-USB, from the reviews I've seen19:57
zerojayIt'll probably be another two or three Sundays before you can do that on the N800.19:57
maddlerCA-101 usb cable...19:58
killfilloh that far away?.. 1 moth?..19:58
zerojayA week or two after the N810 launch.19:58
Andy80maddler: what is microUSB?19:58
maddlerANDY! :D19:58
maddlera smaller USB connector...19:58
maddlerjust to avoid you can use same cable with all you devices... ;)19:59
timelyxzerojay: jaffa19:59
maddlerI hate that!!!19:59
timelyxi think it's designed to support usb-otg19:59
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killfill"OS2008 are both fully compatible with the Nokia N810 and N800".. guess it means it is compatible with n800 in the future.. :P20:00
Andy80maddler: ahhh ok :)20:00
hircuskillfill: as I understand it, the N800 update will be released simultaneously with the N810 launch20:00
Andy80maddler: the one on the left?
zerojayhircus: That's what's been publically stated but someone in the know said they expect it to be a week or two after launch.20:01
hircusit's the exact same hardware, minus the FM and SD reader, plus the GPS, keyboard and mini-SD20:01
killfillaah.. what was release was only the sdk, not the "user" images?20:01
hircuszerojay: ah ok20:01
hircuskillfill: the recent Chinook announcement? yes20:01
hircusI was wondering why my SDK had no updates available for weeks, but when I updated yesterday there was an avalanche of updates20:02
timelyxhircus: and the transflexive screen20:02
Andy80hircus: maybe becase SDK 4.0 final is out :) ??20:02
Andy80where can I get more information about the n810 touch screen? is it more similar to iPhone one?20:03
hircustimelyx: yes, but that's not dependent on OS20:03
hircusAndy80: yes, that's what I meant when I told killfill :)20:03
timelyxhircus: ok, ambient light sensor?20:03
hircusoh yes, actually, the light sensor -- you beat me to it20:04
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hircusbut it's the kind of thing that they could include in the image for N800 and it would not do any harm20:04
hircus(apart from taking up space)20:04
timelyxi believe it's supposed to behave differently20:04
timelyxalthough i haven't run itos2008 images on the n80020:04
timelyxbecause at least on the n810 you get fewer brightness settings than in itos200720:05
Andy80timelyx: are you using the n810 at the moment?20:05
timelyxone or two20:06
Andy80wow :)20:06
timelyxthree or five20:06
Andy80what about the screen?20:06
timelyxAndy80: there's no sun here20:06
timelyxask in may20:06
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Andy80I was not talking about the readibility under the sun :P I was talking about the touching sensitivity...20:07
timelyxit took me a while before the n800 protos started wearing to the point they were unusable20:07
timelyxi've had <5weeks where i could use an n810020:07
timelyxi've had <5weeks where i could use an n81020:08
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timelyxand i'm balancing wear across 2 n810s, and maybe 4 n800s20:08
timelyxplus, there's no software to use20:08
Andy80timelyx: and what do you do with all these devices :) ?20:09
timelyxbrowse the web20:09
timelyxtry to get other people to use them20:09
timelyxfind embarrassing bugs20:09
Andy80with all of them :D ??? you're an octopuss!!! :D20:09
Andy80I'm joking ;)20:09
timelyxtwo for me, and 2 for two other people20:09
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zerojayAre you getting wear on the screen like I am?20:11
timelyxon the n800 proto i got wear20:11
timelyxthe others haven't suffered too badly20:11
zerojayMine's starting to cry.20:12
zerojaySelling it as soon as the N810 is up for order to a coworker.20:12
zerojayNot that I want to sell it, but to cover the cost of the N810.20:12
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pupnikhaven't seen any wear on the 770 - i assume the material is the same20:15
zerojayMaybe you don't do as much chatting as I do.20:16
Andy80maddler: I'd like to organize an event, here in Italy, to spread the Maemo platform: introduction to maemo, installing the SDK, available development languages, ecc.... what do you think about?20:17
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maddlerAndy80: that could be interesting...20:18
maddlerAndy80: also another friend got the Mail ;)20:19
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alteregoThink I've persuaded my dad to get an N810 instead of pinching my N800 :)20:22
zerojaytimelyx: E-mail me your address. jay@jablet.net20:24
xadapi've found a battery on ebay, BP-5L20:25
xadapwould you trust it? :/20:25
alteregoWould I trust anything?20:26
xadapGNU/Linux, of course20:26
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alteregoNot likely.20:26
xadapthe point is that comes from a chinese seller20:26
alteregoWhen it comes to software it's hard to trust anything.20:26
xadapand they doesn't speak spanish very well20:27
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maddlerxadap: I wouldn't...20:29
bedboihi there.20:29
alteregoI seem to spend more time looking at maemo source than I do my own :/20:29
maddlerhi bedboi20:29
alteregoAnyhow, I think I'm nearly done now :)20:30
bedboiis there a way to find out the version of maemo installed?20:30
alteregobedboi, on a tablet?20:30
bedboiat compile time20:30
_Monkeyi heard SDK was not complete yet, anyway20:30
alteregobedboi, check for libraries.20:30
bedboi_Monkey: shut your mouth.20:30
_Monkeybedboi: excuse me?20:30
alteregohildon-1 for Maemo420:30
elbboo for infobots20:30
alteregohildon-libs for maemo320:31
bedboiyep i know this, it would be convenient to have something like MAEMO_VERSION20:31
alteregoNot sure about maemo220:31
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alteregoWell, you could set that yourself ;)20:31
alteregoBut no. There is no real way.20:31
bedboialterego: ok.20:31
alteregoYou should really just be checking against the libraries you're using though.20:31
bedboii was doing that way20:31
alteregoThe Maemo release doesn't matter.20:31
alteregoYou're not compiling against some Maemo lib after all ;)20:32
bedboii'll just use ./configure --enable-chinhook20:32
bedboibecause my app works on gpe too20:32
alteregochin-hook? Sounds painfull.20:32
_Monkeychinook is the tag name for OS200820:32
bedboi_Monkey: i said, please shut your bot-mouth20:33
_Monkeybedboi: excuse me?20:33
xadapis there any trouble with osso-statusbar-cpu and OS2007HE ?20:34
alteregoxadap, you tell me. Are you having trouble? :)20:34
xadapyes, but i was asking for already known trouble :)20:34
alteregoWhat is _your_ trouble?20:35
xadapi've installed it without problems and it doesn't wanna run :/20:35
alteregoHave you tried restarting?20:35
xadapi'm doing it at the moment20:35
xadapthat's going to be the 3rd attempt20:35
alteregoDoesn't sound too promising.20:36
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xadapit doesn't work, again20:36
alteregoAre you using seatbelt?20:36
xadapi didn't install it since OS2007HE doesn't crash20:37
xadapshould I try it anyway?20:37
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alteregoThe crashes are programs stopping (or not starting) due to low memory.20:37
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xadapagr, i thought crashes were unwanted reboots20:37
alteregoI think that's something else.20:38
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xadapthis time the computer crashed down, not the nokia20:42
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xadap_seatbelt installed, nokia 770 rebooted20:47
xadap_and cpu monitor doesn't work yet :/20:48
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_Monkeyi guess working is a big word, bug the content-type is right20:52
xadapin OS2006 mistral it used to be enabled automatically20:52
xadapin bora, i have to enable it from the control panel20:52
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l7does anyone know if the n800 or n810 will support 16 or 32 gb cards?20:55
l7mainly wondering about the n80020:55
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penguinbait16GB looks like people are using it20:57
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zerojayGotta be super expensive.20:58
l7penguinbait: ah yeah, i'm reading that one20:59
l7There have been some problems with (in particular) SDHC cards, which could cause data/card corruptions. This has been resolved in the latest OS revision, but technically speaking the problems were caused by cards not fully following the SDHC specifications.20:59
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l7Thus, Nokia is presumably a bit conservative with what they 'officially' support, but as mentioned above all types of cards should work as far as the filesystem/addressing is concerned.20:59
l7the spectre of data corruption concerns me21:00
penguinbaitIt was a kernel bug21:00
penguinbaitnothing to do with not following specs?21:00
zerojayIt was a kernel bug, however the reason the cards died is because they weren't following the specs.21:00
l7he said it was caused by the SDHC cards not following spec..21:01
penguinbaitAh, I had kingston,21:01
l7hmm, any problems with kingston?21:01
penguinbaitlots of corruption, but the card was always recoverable21:01
penguinbaitnot with new firmware21:01
xadaponly with SD?21:01
zerojayThat's the worst that should happen with cards that follow spec.21:01
penguinbaitI have 8gb Kingston21:01
l7i guess one could use a 16gb or 32gb card for mp3s / movies / maps21:02
l7or whatever you have a second copy of21:02
l7and keep stuff like email on an 8gb21:02
l7if you were really worried21:02
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zerojayAs long as you know how to properly use cards, you should be fine.21:03
zerojayThough it appears that not many do know how to use them properly.21:03
Andy80one question about os2008: video call is available only with Gizmo or with Skype too?21:03
l7and as long as the brand is legit i suppose21:03
l7has anyone had experience with a-data?21:03
zerojayAndy80: Video calling is available in IT2008.. it's the final version of the RTCOMM beta.21:04
zerojaySo far just works tablet to tablet though as far as I know.21:04
zerojaySkype doesn't have video calling on the tablets.21:04
l7i've found mentions of a-data cards corrupting data or being excessively fragile21:04
l7i guess you pays your money and takes your chances21:05
Andy80zerojay: so, it only works with Gizmo, right?21:05
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zerojayWell, with a beta of Gizmo it worked the one time I tried it.21:05
zerojayBut it's all very experimental.21:05
zerojayDon't buy a tablet expecting to video call anyone.21:05
Andy80mmm... so what is the application that better support video calling on os2008 ?21:06
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penguinbaitI am hoping 2008OS brings 800 and 810 together for vide calling21:07
Andy80sorry... maybe I didn't understand something :\21:07
Andy80is it only supported by os2008 API's?21:08
zerojaypenguinbait: Pretty sure we'll be able to do N800 -> N810 without a problem.21:08
penguinbaitAre the camer specs better on 810?21:08
zerojayAndy80: Unless you have a tablet at both ends, there is no video calling solution for you.21:08
zerojaypenguinbait: I believe so.21:08
zerojaypenguinbait: Maybe even VGA.21:08
penguinbaitI hope so21:09
zerojayAndy80: Gizmo has a beta, but it doesn't work very well and I believe it was recently removed.21:09
penguinbaitGod I wish it was released21:09
Andy80zerojay: ok... so only support from a tablet to another... ok.21:09
zerojayFor now, yes.21:09
zerojayNokia's working on something for it though, I'm pretty sure.21:09
zerojayTo replace the call invitation beta they used to have (and that I used to use a lot).21:10
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penguinbaitThey need to deliver a useable product, that call invitation was garbage21:11
zerojayWell, it was labeled a beta so that's kind of to be expected.21:11
zerojayIt didn't work all that well.21:11
penguinbaitLots of people bought n800 thinking they could wasily make video calls21:12
penguinbaitthat was not the case21:12
zerojayHonestly, I don't really care about video calling anymore anyways.21:12
penguinbaitme either21:13
zerojayThe people I used to video call are now living with me so...21:13
penguinbaitnot the point though, cant advertise it then deliver nothing21:13
kpelso you can't hide from them :)21:13
zerojayThey didn't advertize it. I don't think.21:13
penguinbaitInternet calling with web camera21:14
zerojayWhere's that?21:14
penguinbaitI am reading my box21:14
zerojayIt had that.21:14
zerojayThey took it away, but they had that.21:14
zerojayI just didn't remember it being on the box.21:15
penguinbaitIt was, and is on mine,not sure if they removed it?21:15
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zerojayI'll take a look at mine.21:15
penguinbaitright on top,of the back, third sentence21:16
kpelso you can't do a video call using a google account ?21:16
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penguinbaitAgaoin I dont use iteither21:16
hexait's in their flash anim for the n800 too ...21:17
penguinbaitOn another note, I got most of Koffice going this morning :)21:18
penguinbaitKspread and Kchart are the only ones not working in the suite21:18
TPC-can you draw in krita using the touch screen?21:20
zerojayKrita should allow you to even use different pressures.21:21
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timelE61itoday's gem....21:22
penguinbaitNot sure if Krita compiled, loking now21:22
timelE61iapplication manager:21:22
timelE61i(i) Unable to install %s.21:23
timelE61i   Incompatible application package.21:23
zerojayOver escaping?21:23
timelE61idunno. Not quite sure i want to look21:23
timelE61ii'd vote for undertesting21:24
zerojaytimelE61i: E-mail me your meatspace address.21:24
penguinbaitNo Krita either, I may have chosen not to compile it because of deps, I will see if I can get it working also when I try to fix kspread and kchart21:24
timelE61iZerojay: k, lemme walk home21:24
zerojaytimelE61i: XviD AVIs burned to DVD alright with you?21:25
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* timelE61i shrugs21:31
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timelE61iinclude commercials :)21:31
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zerojayHaha.. miss Colgate and McDonalds commercials?21:32
timelE61iwe don't get high quality ones here21:32
zerojayWell, these already have commercials cut out, but I could always download a torrent of commercials. heh.21:33
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timelyxwe do actually have those two, although they don't seem to be very good and i don't understand them21:36
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alteregoWoo, we have compilation success!21:53
timelyxwhat'd you build?21:53
alteregoMy rubypluginloader21:54
alteregoFor making desktop plugins, (task navigator, home and statusbar)21:54
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alteregowriten in ruby.21:54
alteregoNow I've gotta figure out how to use it :)21:56
alteregoThat is .. Figure out where to put my loader.21:57
timelyxheh, they made an edward scissorhands ballet21:58
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db48xdoes the kernel on the n800 support FUSE?21:59
* timelyx ponders21:59
timelyxusbnet is a loadable kernel module, no?21:59
kulvedb48x: probably no, but shouldn't be a problem to compile22:00
kulvetimelyx: iirc, yes22:00
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timelyxif so, the question is basically "does fuse build against kernel x", no?22:00
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timelyxor are not all loadable kernel modules created equal?22:00
* timelyx wonders what "Cat's Eye" is22:01
alteregoCompiling a kernel module isn't easy for MAemo.22:01
db48xalterego: what does it entail?22:02
kulvealterego: I disagree..22:02
zerojaytimelyx: You think the tablets have some embarassing bugs..22:02
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zerojaytimelyx: Guitar Hero 3 for the Wii.. a music game...22:02
timelyxi'll gladly trade22:02
timelyxi think i've offered more than enough bugs :)22:02
zerojaytimelyx: Their final build has forced mono sound.22:03
zerojay"oops, forgot to remove that one define there..."22:03
db48xok, I've got a working maemo-summoner on my n80022:04
db48xI just can't install that particular deb, so I'll have to keep this separate copy around22:04
zerojayWii fan on Digg: "My TV only supports mono anyway, but I don't think many people can tell the difference unless they are audiophiles."22:05
db48xhrm. why do I get a permission denied when I try to run something from /media/mmc2?22:05
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kulvedb48x: it's mounted noexec22:05
elbHAH, I was worried about disk space on this laptop, and there's apparently 10GB of an unused Linux install here :-P22:05
db48xzerojay: hah22:05
db48xkulve: ahhh22:05
* elb rejiggers scratchbox to be on one of those partitions22:06
* timelyx waves goodbye to elb's linux install22:06
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elbLinux has been installed twice on this laptop since ... looks like about 200422:06
elb2005, rather22:06
elbWHO KNEW22:06
timelyxzerojay: they still make tvs w/ mono out?22:06
zerojaytimelyx: Like I said, he's a Wii fan. He'll say anything to try not to look bad.22:07
db48xtimelyx: most cheap tvs are still mono22:07
db48xthough I don't think I've ever seen one that didn't have stereo output22:08
zerojaydb48x: Even cheap TVs sold these days have shit like SVIDEO and Stereo.. even simulated surround.22:08
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db48xzerojay: hmm. the cheapo I have is mono, but it has svideo out22:08
db48xerr, svideo input22:09
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* timelyx sighs22:09
timelyxare Axe commercials as annoying in the states as they are here?22:09
kulvetry asking some non-maemo -channel..22:11
elbtimelyx: yes22:11
db48xcommercials are almost uniformly annoying22:11
timelyxkulve: wfm :)22:11
* db48x makes a backup22:11
* elb hijacks a 6GB used-to-be-FC partition for /scratchbox22:12
db48xwhy does the backup utility limit what characters you can use in the filename?22:12
timelyxthe target is a fat volume22:12
timelyxwhat character are you trying to use?22:12
db48xa /22:12
db48xoh, right. it's fat22:12
elb/ is an invalid character on *any* Unix filesystem22:13
elbat least, as far as the VFS is concerned22:13
elb(it's the directory separator)22:13
timelyxelb: ntfs has a way for it to work :)22:13
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timelyxit sticks it into a custom codepage22:13
elbtimelyx: presumably they fix it before the VFS gets to it?22:13
timelyx(used for services for macintosh)22:13
timelyxelb: no need22:14
elb(so that, from the Unix side, it looks like som eother character)22:14
db48xyea, I suppose that's true22:14
timelyxit isn't "/"22:14
elbright, that's my point22:14
timelyxit's some unicode character ...22:14
alteregoRight, I know where the loader goes .. Now to write a home plugin ..22:14
timelyxbut for services for mac, it's a real "/"22:14
timelyxbecause in mac, the path sep was ":"22:14
elbUnicode has a 'record separator' character22:14
timelyxthey didn't use that22:15
elbit may even have a path separator character, I forget22:15
timelyxbecause they had a bunch of characters they needed to map22:15
elbwhich would be the appropriate *disk* format for a Unicode FS; but the Unix VFS in Linux would still reserve / :-)22:15
* timelyx sighs22:16
timelyxfiling a bug against application manager is too hard22:16
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db48xodd, I'm running Opera again somehow22:21
* db48x sighs22:21
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db48xsomethign is screwy22:26
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db48xI can't get this thing to use microb22:26
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db48xmaybe that package isn't actually installed, even though it gives me the option to use it22:28
alteregoUnknown Plugin Loader type: ruby :(22:29
alteregoThat's helpful ..22:29
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* db48x gives up for the day22:37
db48xstupid browser is crashing now22:38
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maddlerdamn... power failure...22:47
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bedboiis there any rumor about the OS2008 release date?22:53
alterego~1 week22:53
alteregoPeople are so impatient.22:54
alteregoYou'll have it by then.22:54
Andy80maddler: the correct english way to say that is "la maiala dell'enel !!!" :D22:54
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maddlerAndy80: "that piggish enel!!!"22:56
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maddlerbtw... it was caused by a defective light switch...22:57
Andy80maddler: no... if you don't say it in tuscany dialect, it doesn't have any sense ;)22:57
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maddlerand before discovering that I feared it was a power plug hidden by a HUGE wardrobe!22:58
maddlerAndy80: TRUE!22:58
maddlerbtw... yes... having a local maemo-day sounds nice...22:59
maddlerAndy80: do you know Giskard? :)22:59
Andy80no... what/who is?22:59
maddlerhe's from Torino22:59
maddlera Gnome/Maemo hacker... :)22:59
Andy80ah no, don't know him22:59
maddlerbtw... we could try to figure out what could be done...23:00
maddlerand what we could do alltogether...23:00
Andy80maddler: we should find a mid-way place to organize something. mmm.... Firenze would be great :)23:01
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maddlerwhy not...23:02
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l7hey, are there any n800 users here who use it with a mac?23:11
l7i heard that bluetooth file exchange won't work properly with an n800 and a mac :\23:12
alteregoOnly when it's raining.23:12
l7hmm, can you elaborate?23:13
Luriaunless it's tuesday23:13
alteregoYes, Tuesdays I stay at home. So it doesn't matter if it's raining.23:16
maddlerl7: try asking on maemo users' mailing list...23:17
Luriadamn, heavy js is screwing with my firefox23:17
alteregoOr ITT23:18
Luriai suspect im going to end up delteing my profile.23:18
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l7maddler: hmm ok23:19
alteregoSo, I've wrote a plugin loader.23:21
alteregoBut it's not being recognised ..23:21
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alteregoShould there be a file describing the plugin loader?23:21
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alteregoOr does hildon dynamically load them all?23:21
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* DRoBeR is away: This geek is out of order23:37
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eichiis there ettercap and wireshark for maemo?23:53
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pupnik"There is no try, only do, or do not." - Yoda23:56
Andy80what is the wifi chipset of the n810?23:57
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