IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-10-29

devk-s[WORK]: I'll be there00:00
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k-s[WORK]lauti: we want to, as well as a2dp00:02
k-s[WORK]lauti: but I'm not sure if it will be available in this first try00:02
k-s[WORK]lauti: however this release will keep living after it's released00:03
k-s[WORK]lauti: unlike previous version :-P00:03
k-s[WORK]lauti: and it support "options" per-screen, so one can easily write a plugin to support extra output devices00:03
lautik-s: would be cool, this would make it the killer00:03
k-s[WORK]and it will be in python00:04
lautiand i could save a lot of time ;-)00:04
k-s[WORK]dev: present something or what?00:04
devk-s[WORK]: yeah, I'll talk about Coherence00:06
lautik-s: so canola has not yet been released officially?00:07
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k-s[WORK]lauti: no, it's beta2 yet00:08
k-s[WORK]lauti: but we aborted that and rewrite it00:09
k-s[WORK]actually, we're still doing00:09
k-s[WORK]C -> Python00:09
k-s[WORK]SDL -> EFL00:09
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k-s[WORK]hopefully it will be more powerful yet smaller (code base)00:09
rafli wonder how insecure a bluetooth keyboard would be. is there a way for others to sniff what i'm typing via bluetooth?00:10
k-s[WORK]rafl: bluetooth is usually secure00:10
k-s[WORK]rafl: it operates on a number of channels00:10
k-s[WORK]and change among them very fast00:10
_Monkeyk-s[WORK]: that doesn't look right00:10
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k-s[WORK]thus it's hard to snif00:11
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k-s[WORK]you'd have to know the next frequency to snif00:11
mk8Hi to all ... :)00:11
k-s[WORK]_Monkey: ?00:11
_Monkeyk-s[work]: bugger all, i dunno00:11
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wumpusk-s[WORK]: or sniff them all, it's possible00:11
k-s[WORK]wumpus: but other device may be using the channel at that time00:12
wumpusjust google on bluetooth and security and you'll find some interesting stuff00:12
k-s[WORK]and thus you'd have a hard time doing that00:12
wumpusthey succeeded in hacking some general purpose bluetooth chipset to act as full band sniffer00:12
k-s[WORK]but it's possible, yes... hard to say something is impossible nowadays00:12
wumpusbut that doesn't defeat te encryption of course00:13
k-s[WORK]better ask holtmann when he's online at #bluez00:13
wumpusI think the host stacks are quite secure, but you can fool some devices in various ways00:13
wumpusthen again, non-bluetooth wireless keyboards are probably even less secure00:14
wumpusas bt at least enforces some security mechanism00:14
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lautibye folks00:17
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amrhow come when i go to instsall canola it goes all through the process then at the very end i get 'unable to install canola'01:07
amrit still shows up as installed, but has an empty library, and it shows up in my installed apps01:08
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GeneralAntillesWhat does the log say?01:11
amrmentions somethings about dependencies01:12
amrone minute01:12
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amrwhoops i cleared it01:14
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zerojayFinally got mediaserv working.01:38
zerojayMy movies all work great.01:38
zerojayNone of my TV shows, however.01:38
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GeneralAntillesWhat's the matter with the TV shows?01:41
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zerojayMedia player comes up, as usual, but before it plays them, it stops.01:41
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zerojayI can see mencoder working.01:41
zerojayBut it just refuses to play them.01:42
zerojayThe only difference I can see is that they're in a separate directory than the movies.01:42
zerojayBoth in the same data directory.01:42
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macluvjayhow would you take a screenshot on an n80001:52
GeneralAntillesI just use VNC. ;)01:55
GeneralAntillesBut there are a couple of screenshot tools in the repos.01:55
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raflmacluvjay: also there's osso-screenshot or something like that.03:24
raflaww.. note to myself: always read the full backlog before replying.03:24
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macluvjaythanks, found mh shot tool03:26
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zerojayIt supports Flickr as well.03:27
macluvjayi noticed but have no acct03:27
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Esworpb u r p !05:42
Esworpwhy is it that i don't get to watch youtube videos anymore?  i'm promped to install flash again.  :(05:51
* pupnik_ loves bash05:54
pupnik_my rena script for e.g:  rena \^- "" \-*05:54
pupnik_removes leading "-" from all filenames in directory05:54
pupnik_duno maybe they change formats05:57
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Esworpi think that may be the case, UKTUBE fails, too.05:59
Esworpthat sucks.05:59
zerojayN800Flash just doesn't work, period?06:03
Esworpunimstalling microb seemed to fix it.06:03
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zerojayN800Next time, open the application menu, Tools -> Plugins and check that Flash is listed and enabled.06:05
Esworpit was shown.06:05
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Esworpuktube seems to hang and the resulting file is unplayable be mplayer.06:08
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* Esworp wonders what he broke.06:08
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pupnik  still blows me away how good this design is06:42
alteregoI had one of those.06:43
alteregoThey were neat. The keyboards were the best I've ever had in a mobile device of that size.06:45
pupnikI'm hunting for a cheap replacement screen for mine06:46
alteregoGood luck :/06:46
alteregoThat's what's gone on mine.06:47
pupnikjust cable?  mine has a crack in screen06:47
alteregoI've got a spare screen for a 3c.06:47
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alteregoNo, I used to have a nasty habit of breaking screens :(06:47
alteregoRevo and 5MX both died through cracked screens.06:47
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alteregoI think I've got a curse when it comes to portable devices :)06:50
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pupnikcrap, the commodore pet used a BASIC licensed from... Bill Gates06:59
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|RAnyone know of a very portable headset with mic that has more power than the cheapo nokia? (I couldn't hear anything unless i pushed them with my fingers very hard with the volume at max while outside... :|)07:58
|R(or a 3 pin to 4pin + mic adapter)08:07
c0ffeei'd hope the bt headset support would work soon08:13
|Rit was supported in OS2008 ?08:13
infobot|R meant: it is supported in OS2008 ?08:13
|R... and if it is, i need all my apps to be ported too ;)08:14
|Rand then find a headset...08:14
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c0ffeeoh there was some preliminary thing in os2007 that would only work one way08:18
c0ffeeno idea what's the current status :-/08:18
|Ri heard it is now included... i hope it's true :)08:18
|Rthat would make the n8x0 a killer VoIP phone :)08:18
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Rask330<pupnik> crap, the commodore pet used a BASIC licensed from... Bill Gates   <-  Why crap? X)08:23
Rask330Most compies of the day did that.08:23
Rask330For some reason, no one else knew how to write BASIC interpreters but MS.08:23
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Rask330I don't know why...08:23
wumpusyeah my favourite computer back in the days, the MSX, had MS software too, seems even then they had some kind of monopoly :/08:25
cesmanBecause M$ was chosen by IBM.  If it is good enough for IBM, it is good enough for us.  That is my theory at any rate...08:25
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wumpusthen again, back in the time software was written specifically to perform well on that kind of hardware, so it wasn't the monster of their today OS's yet :)08:27
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ffoegboyhi all, can anybody tell me how to add a repositry so i can get the aplication loader to load the dependicies?08:55
|Rtools -> application manager?08:58
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ffoegboy|R, when i do that i get unmet dependencies?08:59
ffoegboyIm trying to add gnumeric and get missing libxau009:01
|Ruhm... if you do a search for libxau0 can you find the package for the n800 somewhere?09:02
rafldoes karoliina do irc?09:02
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czrrafl, occasionally seen here, not very often09:07
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rafli see09:11
raflalso sb-- # quilt without makefile glue09:11
ffoegboy|R i can find the package but how do i install it?09:14
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|Rffoegboy: you could always do it by hand in an x-terminal09:16
|Rdpkg -i package_name.deb09:16
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ffoegboy|R do i use apt-get libxau0?09:20
|Rwell, if apt-get works, application manager should have worked09:21
|R(at least i think... i did most install by hand though ;)09:22
raflwhat graphics hardware does the n800 have and what kind of output driver does it use? I wonder if one would be able to get some slow gl rendering using mesa.09:24
pupniksomeone built mesa for it, and no - forget it09:24
pupnikthere are software engines that run fast and are open source09:25
pupnikquake 1, quake 2, descent (d2x), and the duke nukem engine09:25
rafltoo bad.. no libclutter then :-(09:26
pupnikneostrider has also written a 3d engine from the ground up for maemo - see the angstron project on garage09:27
pupnikfor pocket GL + linux, it's either N900 or Craiginator in 200809:28
pupnikneither is a sure bet tho09:29
pupnikbut just for a benchmark reference, there's a Quake 3 arena running at 25 fps on the Dell axim with 624mhz xscale and Powervr mbx09:31
pupnik@ 640x48009:31
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raflpupnik: trunk/Toolkit in angstron scm, right?09:32
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rafli really don't want opengl performance09:32
rafli just wanted to build nice uis with some basic aimations and bling bling09:32
pupniki haven't played with angstrom09:33
pupnikfrom the pictures, OS2008 does alpha compositing - might be interesting to see how when it comes out09:33
suihkulokkipupnik: hildon-desktop etc sources are out already09:35
rafluh.. angstron has lots of comments, none of them in a language I understand.09:35
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pupnik  powervr SGX can do a fair amount of polygons10:23
pupnikfuturemark measured OpenGl ES1.1 system performance on TI's OMAP2420 processor exceeds 37 frames per second on Game Test 1 for both Operating Systems.
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_Monkeyniihau, hell_home10:40
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hell_homewhat i can use like osso-xterm in my 4.0 sdk?10:40
JaffaMorning, all10:42
sciboypupnik, Personally I'd be quite happy with fixed-point software rendering at half or quarter res.10:44
hell_homeso, btw, there is normal? - [sbox-SDK_BETA_X86: ~] > maemo-select-menu-location bash: maemo-select-menu-location: command not foun10:46
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sciboypupnik, And that's still for just 2D game dev. simply because 3D animation tools are significantly easier to work with.10:46
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disqJaffa: I had to add LocalAddr to the HTTP::Daemon constructor in mediaserv. (bogus hostname)10:49
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disqI will test it as soon as I figure out why 770-encode-launched mencoder exits with a 0 byte file but no error10:50
sciboypixel doublign10:51
sciboypixel doubling10:51
Jaffadisq: v0.04 *has* a LocalAddr in the HTTP::Daemon constructor10:52
JaffaUnless I fscked something up10:52
disqgah. i was using 0.0110:52
disqhad two seperate tarballs in ~ :)10:52
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czrmeh, people writing HTML email should be.. educated.10:55
disqi still need to figure out what's wrong with mencoder though10:55
disqi get "Forcing output FourCC to 58564944 [DIVX]." and then two newlines and then "Exiting..."10:55
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unique311hello alll10:57
sciboyHi unique311.10:57
unique311hey, just learned some good stuff on CA.10:58
sciboyGood to hear. =)10:58
unique311i just got a digital camera.10:58
unique31110.1 megapix10:58
sciboySweet, mine doesn't have optical zoom or auto-focus. =/10:58
unique311and they told me it wasn't shit, if you don't have a descent lens it..lol10:58
sciboyIt's quite useless.10:58
unique311that sucks..10:59
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unique311sciboy, casio?10:59
sciboyNah, some obscure taiwan brand.10:59
unique311i have optical zoom..10:59
sciboyAnyway, I'm installing the 3.1 SDK.11:00
unique311how's the game going?11:00
keesjI am very happy with my 770 SW from olympus . it's the kind of HARD ware i like11:00
sciboyunique311, Still working out engine issues, it doesn't seem like Gecko is going to handle it without some trouble.11:00
unique311770 SW from olympus?11:00
sciboyJeebus, that's a lot of packages. =/11:01
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hell_homeos2008 - chinook? bora - os2007?11:02
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unique311have to install soon...been screwing around with other stuff..11:03
hell_homei install 4.0, but there are no packages for it :-)11:03
unique311new record for me..didn't touch my n800 for 3 dayz.11:03
* sciboy gasps.11:03
sciboyI've been chewing through PDF's.11:04
unique311been messing with the ipod video..i know...sad11:04
unique311i'll probably be all over my n800 once 2008 comes out.11:05
sciboySame, I've been holding out from doing anything major until the new OS comes out.11:05
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unique311notice that the ipod weights the same if not more than the n800.11:07
sciboyIt has a hard drive...11:07
sciboyAnyway so far I've been quite impressed with the N800.11:09
hell_homeso, what can i install, that i can run in emulator? Some different from hello world app11:10
Jaffadisq: this from 770-encode? GeneralAntilles (IIRC) had a similar problem on Mac OS X for no good or apparent reason. You could try `770-encode -m-v -m-v input output' to increase mencoder's verbosity11:10
disqi think it's mencoder11:11
GeneralAntillesIt was mencoder here.11:11
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disqrecompiling mplayer, installed some mp3 encoders :)11:12
disqalso surprised to see debian's (lenny) mplayer package doesn't include mencoder11:13
keesjunique311: yes frmo olimpus11:13
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unique311the name is 770 SW11:14
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* sciboy tries to trick the sdk installation script into liking his 64-bit system.11:20
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sciboySo far just linux32 and dpkg --force-architecture11:28
sciboyNot a fan of 32-bit chroots. =P11:28
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:30
czrvmware <3.11:30
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czrhey lardman. how's the framebuffer thingy coming along?11:47
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guardiandoes the N810 have enabled 3D acceleration ?11:55
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GeneralAntillesNo, guardian.11:55
GeneralAntillesNo drivers.11:55
guardianok same as N800 then11:56
guardiani wonder if the iphone has accelerated opengl11:56
GeneralAntillesI imagine so.11:56
sciboyIt's the same hardware after all.11:56
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Jaffasciboy: put up a post somewhere if you get anywhere. I don't want a 32-bit chroot either, and using VMware when I've already got a perfectly decent Linux system...11:59
zerojayJaffa: Just tried playing my TV shows from Video Center. They work there... just not when launching directly from the web browser.12:01
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sciboyJaffa, So far so good. The usual tricks seem to be working.12:03
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Jaffazerojay: Interesting. Given I only demoed it for Youtube from Video Center to get most done in the shortest amount of time, that'd explain it.12:05
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Jaffazerojay: I've updated the bugs list. I'm not sure it's not a bug in microb, though. Similarly it doesn't like opening the .vcfg files which Opera does. Will need to retest when IT OS 2008 is out.12:07
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guardianwhat is the status of chinook ?12:16
guardiani installed the beta sdk but it's lacking packaging12:16
guardianand it never updated through apt-get12:16
sciboyJaffa, This is my first time doing it though so I'm not sure whether what I've done is right in the first place.12:16
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dolskestupid Colloquy.12:17
suihkulokkiguardian: ask maemo-devel12:17
guardianyeah i'm searching gmane atm12:18
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sciboyJaffa, The framework appears to be working although I haven't tried compiling anything yet.12:25
hell_homeguardian, same for me12:32
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hell_homeguardian, seems like developers does not switch to new platform, even in search tool there are no OS2008 tag12:34
sciboySo now I have an environment set up.12:35
sciboy... =/12:35
guardianwell i don't even know if the filtering has been fixed on downloads.maemo.org12:37
guardian no update since august12:37
guardianseems migrating to midgard is really far from behind smooth :(12:37
guardianbeing i meant12:38
sciboyApparently they have a new to rollout apparently.12:38
hell_homeguardian, so, i am beginner in maemo, i don't know, that search never work correctly(12:38
sciboyApparently ^6e10012:38
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sciboynew version*12:38
sciboyMy brain is fried.12:38
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sciboyAnyway now I have the environment setup do I grab debian armel packages and start building?12:40
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sciboyOh and is it still recommended to go into "red pill" mode on the n800?12:44
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't bother12:44
GeneralAntillesonly activate it if you need something out of there.12:45
GeneralAntillesMostly it just clutters up the app manager.12:45
pupnikI <3 Spidergoats12:47
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suihkulokkigoogle for camel spider <312:51
* czr thanks suihkulokki for the educational break12:55
czrnow I know :-)12:55
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* sciboy makes a sad face.13:00
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czrreally energetic13:00
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L0cutusyup :)13:01
L0cutusi need a standard  SIP client for my n80013:01
L0cutusis this:   ok ?13:02
GeneralAntillesThat would be the SIP client13:02
GeneralAntillesminus Gizmo13:02
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sciboyOh fuck13:08
sciboyJust ran rm -Rf in my REAL root, not the chroot.13:08
* sciboy bashes his head against the desk.13:08
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sciboyI now have a real disconcerting lack of a /bin13:09
sciboyI miss bash already. ;(13:10
sciboyGotta love those moments of epic fail.13:11
GeneralAntillesHa . . . don't do things like that. :P13:11
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sciboyI need to back up all my stuff while my computer is still running. Cause it won't be booting up again.13:11
czrsciboy, vmware <3 ;-)13:12
sciboyDamn you13:12
czrbesides, sometimes sbox installation gets broken very badly and you end up removing a lot of stuff from your real root anyway. vms just provide the extra protection against stupidity :-)13:12
lardmanczr: sorry for my late reply13:13
lardmanczr: not bad, making some progress now13:13
czrlardman, np, cool.13:13
lardmanI did just post to the list, but my email seems to be very slow today13:14
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* czr nods13:14
czrsomehow the messages are not sent immediately to everyone. there have been close to 4 hour differences in people getting the emails.13:14
* czr shrugs as to why13:14
JaffaGeneralAntilles: thanks for the good comment on my video :)13:15
lardmanczr: Anyway, fb access works on the 770, not on the n800, but I've established that large memory regions can be shared without running out of TLBs (unless they happen to be named FRAMEBUFFER, in which case I need to do more kernel digging to work out what's causing the problems on the n800)13:16
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czrlardman, ah, so it wasn't a TLB problem then? (I did read the emails so far couple of days ago), just the name was "reserved"? :-)13:17
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* sciboy tries to hunt down his external HD13:20
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lardmanczr: If a memory section is called FRAMEBUFFER it is handled differently, and we still run out of TLBs for some reason. But at least we now know that it's something specific to this case, rather than that we've run out for some other reason13:26
* czr nods13:26
czrsounds like some special kludge for some specific case ;-)13:26
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lardmanyep, I need to look through the kernel code and see how much memory it tries to share for the framebuffer - It may be that it allocates less than 0x100000, in which case lots of TLBs would be needed. But it works on the 770...13:28
lardman~lart MS Outlook for being rubbish and not telling me it's having troubles sending emails!13:30
* infobot turns MS Outlook into a lifesized tux doll for being rubbish and not telling me it's having troubles sending emails!13:30
czroutlook as a tux doll seems a bit radical though. kinky even.13:31
lardmannot bad enough a punishment imo13:31
czrdepends on who you give the doll to13:32
* czr suggests sending it to ballmer13:32
pupniklardman: does mplayer use FB on N800?13:33
* lardman suggests sticking pins in it a la voodoo13:33
lardmanpupnik: I think so13:33
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czrlardman, into ballmer or the doll?13:35
czrformer would be more enjoyable for me at least.13:35
lardmanMDK: That's an interesting post about curve rasterization. Does this in any way apply to the N8X0.....? PowerVR, etc.? Or is this all more generic improvements for Cairo?13:39
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sciboyFound it!13:40
lardmanthe answer?13:40
_Monkeyhmmm... the answer is 42. but what is the question13:40
lardmanperhaps he found the question?13:41
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sciboyOkay downloading the debian installation image and hoping wodim can still burn it.13:45
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sciboyIf it does, I'll be out of any real danger since I can still boot (don't have any live cd's around)13:49
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sciboyNope didn't burn. =/14:16
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_Monkeybonjour, erstazi14:32
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Andy80hi all14:54
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* alterego whistles whilst he documents.15:22
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* Tak dips a ruby in poison15:30
Takdid I tell you I have a rubygame demo running on the device?15:31
alteregoNope, is it cool? :)15:31
Taklol - the demo isn't cool, because it's ~100li of my noob rubygame code15:32
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alteregoWell, if the button said "Don't Panic" it might be more useful ;)15:33
alteregoThat's neat though. Is the button just an image?15:34
Takthe button itself is an image, and the text is programmatically rendered15:34
Takthe rubygame package is only 59k, too15:34
alteregoIs that including SDL?15:35
Takdo you mean SDL itself, or ruby bindings for SDL?15:35
alteregoRuby SDL bindings.15:36
Takoh - all you need is rubygame15:36
alteregoWhat does it use to render?15:36
alteregoOr is it an SDL binding in it's own right?15:36
Takbut you ... yes15:36
alteregoOh, that's neat.15:36
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alteregoI was about to send a message to the guy that owns the ruby project on maemo garage.15:37
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alteregoHis project is called ruby185. Which really isn't what I want my project called :/15:37
alteregoWell, my project isn't called that :)15:40
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Takhmm - you can change the "Descriptive Group Name"15:41
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alteregoSure, but the project name will still be ruby185 which is wrong.15:41
Takmaybe it can be sorted out with the admins15:42
alteregoFor instance, The ruby version I'm using is 1.8.6-p110 at the moment.15:42
alteregoYes, maybe. Which is why I held off talking to him. I'd like to know more about what could be done in this regard.15:42
* Tak nods15:43
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alteregoBecause if it can't be renamed then I'd like them to reconsider allowing me to start a new project. Otherwise I'll continue to host everything on my own server.15:43
alteregoThough, someone said that I don't have to have a garage project to use the extras repository? I'm not really sure how that all works ..15:44
TakThat's correct15:44
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Takgarage projects and the extras repo are separate15:45
alteregoRight, so what benifits would I get from having a garage project? Obviously the maemo announcements of releases would be nice.15:45
* Tak shrugs15:45
alteregoThe garage is a good idea but it's kind of rubbish in some areas.15:47
alteregoFor instance, package searching is _really_ bad :/15:47
Takactually it seems to be ok on garage, but busted to hell on downloads15:48
alteregoOh, maybe I'm getting confused then :)15:48
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alteregoIdeally the downloads section wouldn't exist and everything could be done via the application manager :)15:49
alteregoThough, it's handy if you're thinking of getting a device and want to know what software is available,15:49
Takif everything was in the extras repo, and the extras repo was enabled at install-time :-)15:49
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alteregoTesting all these widgets is a pain in the ass.15:51
alteregoIt's also very time consuming :.15:51
* alterego switches to testing ConIc again.15:52
TakI'm sure15:52
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alteregoI'd also really like to test on real hardware but as 2008 doesn't come out for a while yet I'm stuck guessing that things might work properly ^_^15:55
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alteregoTak, would you be interested in testing the new packages?16:12
alteregoI'm building for 2008 and 2007 at the moment.16:12
* Tak 2007HE16:13
_Monkey2007HE is really great16:13
alteregoYeah, that's fine.16:14
alteregoI'll let you know when I've compiled and uploaded the packages.16:14
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alteregoOh dear ..16:16
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alteregoI need to reinstall the SDK ..16:19
alteregoWell, my maemo3 targets ..16:24
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* sciboy just finished bootstrapping debian...16:36
alteregoNice :)16:37
sciboyIt feels so wierd installing debian without repartitioning. =/16:37
sciboyAnyone here familiar with irssi? I want to close a private message window. ("Act")16:37
inz/wc, that is16:38
sciboyYeah, thanks. =)16:38
sciboyDo I need to keep the server window open?16:38
alteregoinz, you might be able to help me with this. I've getting loads of fakeroot errors after a manual SDK installation of 3.2 or 4.0beta :/16:39
sciboyOh and FYI, it's rather easy to install scratchbox on a debian amd64 system, dispite the use of 32-bit binaries, no need for chroot.16:39
alteregoI've edited the nokia installer scripts to install to maemo{3,4}-sdk-{arm,i386} targets so I don't have to do a manual install.16:40
alteregosciboy, good to know :)16:40
sciboyYou take the maemo-scratchbox-installer script and add "--force-architecture" after dpkg, and execute it under linux3216:40
inzalterego, dunno, have you tried "sb-conf in -f"?16:41
alteregoinz, yeah :/16:41
alterego-F ;)16:41
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sciboyI erased my /bin while trying to reconfirm though.16:41
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alteregoWell, hopefully this will work.16:41
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sciboyYeah, rm -Rf * was in my terminal history when I hit UP and enter.16:42
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alteregoYou only have to edit 3 lines in the nokia SDK installer scripts to change the target names, and they're right near the top. I'd recommend it to anyone wishing to use multiple targets.16:42
alteregoBeats manually setting them up.16:42
sciboyI did it manually after the installer refused to install over itself again.16:43
sciboyand using rm led to my current predicament.16:43
alteregosciboy, just sb-conf remove SDK_ARMEL and SDK_X8616:43
sciboyBut from everything else I assume that the installation with the notes mentioned above, should work perfectly.16:43
sciboyPersonally, I may just use that vmware image for my own safety. ;|16:44
sciboyOne sec, want to try closing the server window.16:46
sciboyOh never mind, irssi warns that it's immortal.16:46
alteregoI suppose the internet tablets would make an awesome MMORPG platform.16:47
Takhah - I would *love* to see an nwn client16:48
sciboyDepends, if it's asynchronis and supports offline use, damn straight it would be!16:48
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alteregooffline use?16:48
alteregoYou cruel person :P Why would you ever be offline with your tablet!16:48
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sciboyActually I have a rough idea for a mass multiplayer strategy game, but it's been hiding in the "forget about it" pile due to the needed programming being outside the scope of my own skills.16:49
sciboyalterego: Don't have wifi in my room yet.16:49
alteregoOh, that's a shame.16:50
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sciboyYeah, I'm keeping an eye open for a spare router to fix that though.16:50
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erstazisciboy: WRT54GL's are inexpensive16:51
erstaziand you can put linux on them16:51
sciboyerstazi: Most of the stuff I find on ebay is inexpensive, *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*16:51
erstazisciboy: sometimes, but people go crazy over the Nokia tablets, they overpay! I got my Nokia 770 for $129, on ebay it was going for $150 - $20016:52
sciboyI don't need any serious, it'll just take the ethernet already in my room and retransmit the signal.16:52
_Monkeyanything is possible16:52
erstazisciboy: retransmitting the single through adhoc from a pc or laptop?16:52
sciboyI use to think that, but I've become allergic to pain.16:52
sciboyerstazi: I have a WiFi AP on my door with an ethernet leading to my computer, making the distance that the signal can't.16:53
sciboyThe idea is to take a router, pop it where my computer is, add a cable to the computer itself.16:54
sciboyI would go with ad-hoc if it wasn't for the nintendo consoles in the house. =/16:54
sciboyI can't help it, I love playing with my Wii16:56
sciboy... You'd think after some point that'd stop sounding so dirty.16:56
alteregoRight, that seemed to have fixed my installation.16:57
alteregoI wonder what the problem is.16:57
zerojayN800someone's still playing wii?16:57
alteregoWith any luck I might be able to actually start developing applications soon.16:58
sciboyalterego: I wish you better luck than I had.16:58
sciboyAnd maybe some common sense too.16:58
alteregosciboy, how do you mean?16:58
sciboyDon't do rm -Rf * in your root directory.16:59
alteregoOh, hahah16:59
alteregoWhat on Earth were you doing that as root for?16:59
alteregoYou shouldn't use your root account at all really.16:59
alteregoOnly when you really _need_ too ..16:59
sciboyI just finished clearing a directory out that required root permissions.16:59
alteregoThough, I have done that myself quite a while ago.17:00
alteregoLearned the hardway. Now everything is sudo this and sudo that.17:00
sciboyI moved on, but I hit enter a little too quickly upon using the command history.17:00
alteregoHeh, I used to use rm *~ a lot. But sometimes I'd hit enter before I got to the ~ key :(17:01
sciboyA second was enough for it to take out /bin before I hit CTRL+C17:01
alteregoNeedless to say, now I just leave all the temporary files around the place.17:01
alteregosvn ignores them anyway.17:01
alteregoAnd I use svn a lot ;)17:01
sciboyHeh, I try to keep everything as normal user.17:01
sciboyBut scratchbox didn't like that.17:02
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sciboyI'm a little deterred from installing it right now.17:03
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alteregoYeah, I just used the scratchbox debian repo to install it on my machine.17:03
alteregoAfter partitioning a /scratchbox partition17:04
sciboyAnyone else want to try getting the blender game engine running at half-res on software rendering? Apparently it's quite easy to get it running, getting decent speeds in another issue altogether.17:04
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sciboyUltimately I really want to do some super-low-poly games on it.17:07
sciboySomeone else says if you're using mesa to use the soft-float flag.17:08
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lardmanwhy does soft-float mesa perform better than hard-float?17:09
alteregolardman, what hard float?17:09
sciboylardman: Because kernel-level float emulation is apparently a whole bunch slower.17:10
sciboyAt least that's what I read.17:10
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lardmanoh I see, you're talking about letting the kernel trap the fp instructions17:10
lardmanof course that will be slow17:11
lardmanalterego: hardfloat as in hardware floating point on the n80017:11
alteregoThe n800 doesn't have hardware floating point.17:11
lardmanyes it does17:11
lardmanhardware vfp17:11
lardmanmost fp instructions are in hardware, some are emulated, it's not used in the Nokia images (binary size issues I think)17:12
alteregoI don't remember seeing any FP hardware in the OMAP2410 ..17:13
sciboyWell it still stands, if someone can help me get blenderge going I'd be ready to repay it with game dev. for the N800.17:13
lardman2420 isn't it?17:13
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Takyeah, n800 has hardware vfp17:13
alteregolardman, yeah whatever. I didn't see any FP hardware.17:13
lardmanNokia use soft-float, but if you compile with the right flags (-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp) you too can use hw fp. Make sure you compile libm again though17:14
lardmanalterego: I'll find you a link, hang on a tick17:14
alteregoCool, thanks.17:14
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czrlardman, do you have any info on the vfp available? clocks and such stuff. i.e., when it makes sense to use the vfp and when just leave at the soft fp17:16
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lardmanczr: I don't have anything on actual instruction timings, I do have some benchmark data17:17
czrlardman, hmm. what were you benchmarking?17:17
lardmanczr: a variety of benchmarks :)
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czrso, other than those two flags (and either avoiding libm or rebuilding a private copy), it's really that simple?17:18
lardmanthere are some bits on the ml too, e.g.:
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alteregoNice thanks.17:21
lardman might be a better bet, technical manual17:22
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lardmanczr: In the url above ( etc.) there's a hardware fp version of libm (static & shared) if you don't want to compile your own (i.e. link in or alter LD_LIBRARY_PATH for your app)17:23
alterego"optional floating point coprocessor"17:23
alteregoAre you _sure_ the N800 has one?17:23
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sciboyI'd really appreciate it if someone could get blender going, from the forum thread on the 770 attempt, it apparently compiles against mesa with no edits required.17:23
alteregosciboy, have you tried it yourself?17:24
alteregoIF it's that easy, just do a ./configure make make install yourself.17:24
czrlardman, thanks. mainly thinking about 2d vector graphics wrt the fp stuff17:24
lardmanalterego: compare the omap2420 processor type to the variant type that ARM say has the vfp unit (then look at the benchmarks ;) )17:24
alteregoIf it works I'll think about packaging it.17:24
alteregolardman, okay :)17:24
sciboyalterego: I was going to before... my little accident happened, but honestly it'd take someone with a clue barely any time to do it while it'd take me ages since to be honest, I'm useless with anything low-level.17:25
sciboyC/C++ included.17:25
alteregoYou don't need to know how to program to compile.17:25
alteregoYou said this thread said there were no modifications required.17:25
sciboyYep, although they recommended the softfp flag for mesa.17:26
alteregoDon't get me wrong, I'd really like to see it work. I'm just _very_ busy with ruby-maemo17:26
czrlardman, interesting difference between O2 and Os (N800-fp-tests.txt). I thought that x86 was the only crippled CPU that gcc got more out of in Os mode.17:26
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alteregosciboy, the 770 doesn't have FP so you'd have to use softfloat on it.17:26
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czrlardman, damn, the dhrystone stuff looks very promising indeed. thanks man.17:27
lardmanczr: np17:27
sciboyI'll brb, need to restart and see if all this bootstrapping business worked out after all.17:28
lardmanczr: but I'd test rather than take the optimisation flags at face value, I don't know how the optimisation works, but I presume it's tailored to the code17:28
sciboyalterego: Ultimately though, in order to do decent animation/framerates on it I'd need to get it pixel-doubling.17:29
czrlardman, well, I know how gcc batters the code around for x86 with different flags. let's just say that I was suprised to see that the results are in line with expectations that I have on x86 with the different levels.17:29
czr(that being Os/O2 being the fastest normally)17:29
lardmanczr: the moon was probably in the right bit of the sky, etc. ;)17:29
czrlardman, tell me about it :-)17:30
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sciboyalterego: And things like the hardware vfp would make a whole lotta difference to the performance.17:30
alteregosciboy, definitely, I'd say it's a must.17:30
sciboyBrb. =)17:30
lardmanczr: the optimisation flags appear to me to be rather specific about how they speed up certain bits, it would be interesting to look at how/why some optimisations slow things down, but not enough hours in the day17:30
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czrlardman, they normally just enable/disable a bunch of other optimization flags17:31
lardmanare the groupings the same across platforms? presumably not17:32
czrthe funny bit is that with each gcc version, you'll need to rerun the benchmarks if you really are trying to find the "ultimateh combination". just not worth it most of the time.17:32
czrmostly yes17:32
czrmost of the optimizations are architecture neutral.17:32
czrmore to do with how gcc shifts stuff around17:32
lardmanWhile we're looking at the ARM site, this is vaguely interesting ;) :)
lardmanwhich indicates that Jazelle needs to be enabled by writing to a coprocessor17:33
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czrlardman, any idea on which vfp will be used with gcc? vfp v2?17:34
lardmandepends on the processor iirc17:35
lardmanis that right? Or am i thinking of something else?17:35
* czr does not know17:35
czrI should probably get a proper arm tech manualset at some point17:36
czrARMv7-A includes VFPv317:36
lardmanthere was a slightly old version (arm5) on the net somewhere17:36
lardmanand a slightly newer one in Japanese that explains more about Jazelle17:36
czrmmh. not that much into jazelle though.17:36
lardmanczr: I thought it would be interesting to learn about, but troublesome.17:37
czryeah. my sentiments exactly17:37
czrI used to write java bytecode (using jasmin to compile into bytecode) many many years ago17:37
czrthe whole thing left me feeling dirty and.. dirty.17:38
lardmanI need to sumarise my findings and give up on it, too much patent/IP troubles to go any further me thinks17:38
lardmanthe arm1136 is vfpv217:38
czrhmm. any tech ref on it anywhere?17:39
czrooh. just the thing :-) thanks.17:40
zoransome folks consider using non gcc compilers on linux, particularly on x38617:40
lardmanlooks like GCC supports VFPv2 with VFPv3 called Neon17:40
lardmanzoran: what for? Java?17:40
zorantcc for example17:41
zorannot saying it is better17:41
czrtcc doesn't support anything but x8617:41
zoranah, c17:41
czrand probably never will.17:41
czrand the compiler had very different goals anyway.17:41
zoranlooks correct17:42
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czrlardman: "Except for divide and square root operations, the pipelines support single-cycle throughput for all single-precision operations and most double-precision operations. Double-precision multiply and multiply and accumulate operations have a two-cycle throughput. "17:45
czrbut that's for normalized data (it was said somewhere else)17:45
lardmanso reasonably fast, I wonder if timings for the softvfp software implementation are available somewhere?17:46
czrand there's also execution timing chart for that..17:46
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czrthe latencies are quite long though.17:46
lardmanthere are also some interesting DSP instructions to do operations in parallel17:47
lardman(that is instructions called "DSP" but which are on the ARM)17:47
czrI think that was infact Neon.17:47
czrat least according to the cortex-8 manual17:48
asys3Does anybody know details about the GPS chip used in the N810? Is it a SIRF III chip ?17:48
czrit shares the fp registers with the vfp (similar to mmx on x86)17:48
lardmanthere are some on the 1136 as well though, not sure if they are called Neon or not17:48
AD-N770lardman,czr: some vfp functions that I wrote are at
lardmanAD-N770: ah yes, I'd meant to say that you had experience with these instructions, my apologies17:49
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czrAD-N770, what did you use to model/measure the latency/throughput?17:50
AD-N770czr: I used liboil features to bench the functions17:51
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czrah ok. no instruction level modelling then?17:51
AD-N770czr: but it was just a weekend experiment17:51
* czr nods17:51
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AD-N770I couldn't find time to go more in depth on this yet17:52
tamarai don't mean to burst in here asking questions but17:53
AD-N770czr: I found oprofile also usefull to bench some other assembly that I wrote17:53
tamarais there any way to replace busybox with full utils?17:53
czrAD-N770, sure. I was looking for something more low-level though.17:54
lardmantamara: install the utils you want, they will overwrite the busybox symlinks17:54
tamarathe debs are in the apt archives for bash, bsdutils, etc17:54
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tamaraok, so just force overwrite and i won't break it?17:54
AD-N770lardman: where are you reading about DSP instructions?17:55
alteregoThis is odd ..17:55
lardmanAD-N770: on the arm1136 you mean?17:55
alteregoMy setup script finds hildon_sort_dialog_add_sort_key_reversed, but I get a implicit declaration error whilst compiling the source file :/17:56
AD-N770lardman: about your previous comment17:56
lardmanAD-N770: can't remember, let me have a look17:58
AD-N770lardman: are you refering to the edsp extension set that was also on the 770?17:58
czrlardman, AD-N770, thanks guys18:00
lardmanAD-N770: That I don't know, what does edsp do? What I was talking about is the SIMD instructions, i.e.:
AD-N770lardman: I think that it refers to arm6 media instructions18:02
lardmanit may be the same thing then - lots of acronyms for the same things18:02
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AD-N770lardman: sample of edsp instructions introduced on arm5e is smultb, see at
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AD-N770lardman: sample of arm6 media instruction is smuad at
lardmanthanks, I'll take a look18:05
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sciboyback. i'm in maemo now.18:07
sciboycan't seem to install grub on my pc18:09
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sciboy_I know where you live sciboy!18:26
sciboy_Oh and I'm back.18:27
sciboy_Trying to sort out a grub issue.18:28
zoranor read a manual18:32
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lmouraxan, is libglade available somewhere (or will be) for chinook beta?18:35
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xanlmoura, it should be there AFAIX18:43
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sciboyYay working!18:52
lmouraxan, both default and extras repositories updated here but no glade, and the comparison table between alpha and beta says it was removed from beta.18:52
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xanlmoura, well, then I'm obviously missing something, I'm not involved in the SDK :|18:54
lmouraxan, ok, thanks anyway :)18:54
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sciboyAny devs out there want to help me out and port a 3d game engine over so I can develop some games for the N800 (and N810)?18:58
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sciboyBrb, just got X working.19:00
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sciboyThere we go, now I can keep this darn window open.19:01
alteregosciboy, I might be able to help you soon.19:03
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alteregoI've almost finished my release of ruby-maemo :)19:03
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sciboyCool. =D19:03
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zoranalterego, for what os version and how big it is?19:04
sciboyI'm sorry about nagging, but this is the only major option I have for cranking out games. =/19:04
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mgedminbear in mind that there's no hardware 3d acceleration on the n8x0 (due to lack of hardware specs) and the cpu is not a very powerful one for realtime 3d19:05
mgedmindoom runs on a 770/n8x019:05
mgedminI don't know if any more modern 3d game was ever ported19:05
alteregozoran, for 2008 and 200719:06
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sciboyJust for the record it uses scons, and you probably want to disable a bunch of options before starting, sound isn't too big a concern, I use python libraries to handle that anyway.19:06
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zoranalterego, gems?19:06
alteregozoran, no rubygems.19:06
alteregoruby, ruby-gnome2, ruby-hildon, ruby-conic, ruby-libosso19:07
alteregosqlite3 and libxml are optional.19:07
alteregoOh and SDL.19:07
sciboymgedmin, I will be designing games to meet the hardware, if we can get something remotely decent out of the engine.19:07
sciboymgedmin, I can get away with a bare minimum of 3 planes (6 tris) on screen and still make a good game.19:07
alteregoJust as soon as I iron out the creases in my multi target build & packaging script.19:07
sciboymgedmin, The more it's capable of, the more I can swap out pseudo 3d with real 3d.19:08
alteregoI think it's almost done :)19:09
alteregozoran, rubygems on an embedded device is murder.19:11
alteregoUntil someone can come up with a fast embedded rubygems client it's not worth using it :/19:11
alteregoAdmittedly having rubygems on the device would be amazing. Though it obviously can't compile binary extensions.19:11
zoranmaybe gems on the memory card19:12
alteregoIt's not going to make it any faster :P19:13
zoransurely not19:13
alteregoAnd without a compiler there's no real point IMO19:13
zoranbut, it is a matter of proof of the concept19:13
alteregoIf I get the time. I might setup a gem "proxy" app.19:14
* sciboy hugs python.19:14
zoransome exclusive apps have their purpose for one or few users19:14
alteregoWhich hijacks scratchbox and cross-compiles the extension. Then caches the gems and sends them to the device.19:14
zoranalterego, I see perl and python as necessery to my 770 usage19:15
alteregoWhy Perl?19:15
zoranI like it at the first place19:15
* alterego doesn't like Perl ..19:15
sciboyalterego, I was actually considering using gecko to develop games, that quickly proved to be much sillier than getting blender working.19:15
zoranthen my poppy pop3 server look up app is written in perl19:15
zoranand in python are written some great masterpieces: getmail for instance19:16
sciboyIf I was completely stuck though, I guess I could get it to work, just with no end to the frustration and testing.19:16
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alteregosciboy, what kind of facilities do you need in a game engine to stop you whining?19:17
sciboyalterego, Graphical development environment and high-level programming.19:17
alteregoI still don't see why you don't just pick up pygame & python and hack something.19:17
zoranor navigate space ship using interactive prompt19:18
sciboyBecause then I don't get to do what I'm good at, and spend most of my time rewriting the code instead of focusing on actual gameplay.19:18
zoranmust be on arm?19:18
sciboyWhich, when I could easily just jump into it on multi-platform development completely removes any prospect of me filling in some of the gaming gap on the maemo platform.19:19
zorangame making is not so easy and fun as one could think19:19
zoranmake scenario first and ask people if they like the idea19:20
sciboyI know that, and having a ready-made game engine to abstract a lot of the tedious stuff makes a world of difference.19:20
sciboyHeck, it makes _all_ the difference.19:20
zoranmaybe your game is already written19:21
sciboyIt isn't, otherwise I would be reusing their engine.19:21
alteregoThere are lots of engines out there.19:22
alteregoYour obsession with blender and graphical environments isn't very helpful.19:22
sciboyI can rapidly prototype new games in a month if I don't have to wrestle with the code all the time.19:22
alteregoNot that I think you're obsessed or anything :P19:22
alteregoA month?19:22
sciboyOf course I'm obsessed, I love doing this stuff.19:22
glassyou could prototype a lot of ideas in a day with any language19:22
alteregoI could program a game from scratch in a few days.19:23
sciboyA month, that's full art assets and core gameplay polished.19:23
alteregoYou said prototype :P19:23
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sciboyI do adventures and stuff, the amount of content tends to make it more demanding. =/19:23
zoranwhat kind of games?19:23
sciboyThat's a prototype to me, playable but lacking any additional features or major polish.19:23
glassyeah tahts in different ballpark19:23
glassadventures are a lot of scripting and etc19:24
glasswhereas, doing a clone of an arcade style game can be very fast19:24
sciboyBingo, art and scripting are the majority of it, (ignoring story for a bit)19:24
zoranthere were text adventures19:24
zoranor elite with a lot of text19:25
sciboyThen scripting and story becomes the priority, still takes ages though.19:25
sciboyThose usually take more than a month, funnily enough graphics allow you to get away with simpler content.19:25
zoranno new idea == only sciboy would play that game19:25
glassthere should be adventure game engines out there.. by boatloads, though if they're flexible enough for whats in your mind dunno19:25
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sciboyglass, I do action/adventure, faster paced than point'n'click.19:26
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sciboyAlthough I respect the shit out of the classics in that department.19:26
zoranmy neighbors play a lot of complicated games including making cities, making wars etc; they are all the same, if I see them from aside19:27
sciboyYeah, complicated games aren't my style, I like to bombard them with content rather than complicated mechanics.19:28
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zoranthey _are_ all the same19:28
sciboyAlthough again when it comes down to it, it's usually only a novelty or two that sets them apart.19:28
* glass has an idea for a tetris variation19:28
zorananother color, another name, the same game19:28
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glasswell, what they differ usually is in balances19:31
sciboyThe core gameplay is the same, the overlying stuff is what changes.19:32
zorannot related to maemo. does someone use nokia 6233?19:33
sciboyBrb, restart.19:34
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* alterego watches as his beautiful build system does it's magick.19:39
alteregoI'm so proud I could weep.19:39
DaniellionOh.. what did you do?19:40
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robl^does anyone know of an active project to port php-gtk to maemo?19:40
zoranalterego, you sould write a manual etc19:40
alteregoHeh, not that special really. I just wrote a script that will automatically build and package my packages for multiple targets. (armel,i386 for chinook and bora)19:41
sciboyrobl^, People use PHP-GTK?19:41
alteregoPeople use PHP?19:41
zoranno 2006?19:41
robl^sciboy: yup!  and now that php-gtk2 is in beta, I can see more people using it19:41
alteregozoran, I've stopped support for 200619:41
alteregoPackages for it are stull available.19:41
_Monkeyi guess site is sending the content in gzip TE19:42
sciboy2006 is totally obselete.19:42
alteregoIf someone asks me to do it I will. I just don't see the point. I've not even installed a 2 series SDK in my scratchbox.19:42
zoran2006 is os for 770, as I see it19:42
alteregoUpdate to 2007HE19:42
zorank, no much graph apps for me19:42
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sciboy770 is officially obsolete.19:43
sciboy2006 is obsolete by association.19:43
sciboyIf people used it on the new devices it might be a different matter though.19:44
zoran770 is great dude19:44
robl^and 2007 will soon be obsolete.  2008 is the future! ;-)19:44
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sciboyrobl^, It'll take some months but yeah. =P19:45
alteregoYeah, I can't see me building for 2007 much longer.19:45
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alteregoThe only reason I am is so I can test on the device.19:45
alteregoI spent most of the afternoon getting my OS2008 extensions to compile on OS2007 :/19:45
zoranrecall ipaq people supporting 5-8 years old hardware?19:45
alteregozoran, this isn't hardware.19:46
zoranlinux on ipaq19:46
alteregoThis is software. If you're not going to update that's your problem.19:46
sciboyAs far as I could tell, the 770 was a test platform to spark development.19:46
robl^has 2008 been released for the n800 yet?19:46
sciboyIt was bound to be dropped rather quickly.19:46
alteregorobl^, no.19:46
alteregozoran, do you only have a 770?19:47
Daniellioni worry they will drop the 810 too19:47
Daniellionwhen do they go on sale anyway?19:47
alteregoOf course they will.19:47
alteregoMid Nov.19:47
sciboyDaniellion, They will, not for the next couple of years though.19:48
zoranalterego, yes19:48
alteregozoran, that's a shame.19:48
alteregoHow long have you had it?19:48
zoranmy face is red19:48
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zoranalmost a year19:48
sciboyUnless there's serious hardware defects, like the "GPS" leaking antimatter into the atmosphere.19:49
alteregoThe 770 is still nice.19:49
DaniellionSo you think that the 810 will be around a bit19:49
zoranI _really_ liek it19:49
sciboyThen they'll drop it faster than a hot 770.19:49
alteregoAnd with 2008HE being released for it I don't see why people should stop using it.19:49
Daniellionthough yeah i keep forgetting they supported the 770 and its been around for years and its still a great device19:49
Daniellionyou mean 2007 HE19:49
alteregoOfficially supporting the hardware is not an issue in my problem.19:49
Daniellionnot 200819:49
Daniellion2008 is the 810's right19:49
alteregoDaniellion, no, I mean 2008HE19:49
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alteregoIt will be released.19:50
Daniellionits already being hacked and worked on?19:50
sciboyThe 770's will get the hackers edition of 2008.19:50
alteregoIt's being worked on.19:50
alteregoJust like I'm sure the N8X0 will have OS2010HE19:50
Takhaha, I wonder if they'll ramp the 770 cpus up to 250 MHz with os200819:50
sciboyTak, I look forward to the resulting explosions.19:51
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zoranthe point would be to tweak consumption down19:51
Daniellioni used to overclock the w-mobile devs19:52
Daniellionthey got kinda flaky ehehe19:52
sciboyThe LCD chip will be all like "OMG HIS POWER LEVEL IS OVER 5000!" and promptly go white before igniting any liquids whether they be incased in meat or not.19:52
zoranno smoke?19:52
sciboyOn that note, I'm most likely delirious with sleep deprivation.19:52
sciboyNo smoke, just steam.19:53
zoranI recall the smoke my desktop made some time ago19:53
sciboySuper-heated-steam, that melts anything upon contact.19:53
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* zoran gone to talk to dragons about fire usage19:56
* sciboy passes his stash of pot to zoran.19:56
sciboyIn case you need to sedate them.19:56
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alteregoruby1.8-maemo is packaged :)20:03
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Takanybody know where the keyboard layout files are stored?20:03
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Takaha, found in /usr/share/keyboards20:07
_Monkeyniihau, _gpg_20:08
_gpg__Monkey niihau20:08
_Monkeysalut, _gpg_20:08
_gpg__Monkey salut !20:08
_Monkey_gpg_: huh?20:08
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_gpg_i'm having a hard day lol20:09
Daniellion oawww20:10
_gpg_talking to a bot :)20:10
_gpg_i've a question more related to the use of linux in embedded system, hope i can have some suggestion20:10
DaniellionYeah.. thats not healthy20:10
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_gpg_i finally got agrement from my boss to port our vxworks roject to linux (great, yet annother telematic box running linux)20:11
_gpg_i know maemo, gmae poject and would like to know if some of you know other projects like them20:13
sciboy <- I love this stuff.20:13
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Jitenvx: qtopia is another embedded system running on top of linux20:23
Jitenalso take a look at openmoko.20:24
Jitenand openembedded20:24
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vxJiten ty20:29
_Monkeyrumour has it GPE is an environment kind of like Maemo20:29
sciboyNo wayz20:29
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Takhmm - is there a sanctioned way of obtaining the keyboard layouts in xml format?20:33
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_|Nix|_Can someone please help me set up the repo for Pidgin? I can't get the binary-all portion to work.20:37
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_|Nix|_I have the "all" architecture listed in the Release file, yet, when I do an apt-get update, it doesn't seem to pick it up.20:37
pupniknew word(bird)20:39
* alterego contemplates scheme-maemo20:40
alteregoI wouldn't really use it for anything though.20:40
Takif(:bird == word) then puts('Everybody knows that the bird is the word!'); end20:40
alteregoRuby maemo would be what I'd use for development.20:40
alteregoputs "Everybody knows that there are no bird words!" unless :bird == word20:41
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Daniellionwhere was a link to the os2008he?  i can only google ref. 2007he20:43
alteregoDaniellion, OS2008 isn't released yet.20:44
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DaniellionI know20:45
DaniellionI jsut thoght when i walked in someone referenced a hacker ed. of 2008 .. which i thought odd20:45
alteregoI said that there will be a 2008HE20:46
alteregoI never said it was already out.20:46
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DaniellionOhhh i see ;)20:49
pupnikdid nokia announce a 2008he?20:50
Taksomebody official announced it20:51
Takmaybe quim20:51
alteregoWell, psuedo official.20:52
alteregoI don't there there's anything official with regards to the 770 anymore ;)20:53
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Takaha -
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* sciboy sighs.21:31
timelesswanna really sigh?21:31
sciboyMy wacom tablet isn't going to work. =/21:31
timelesstry turning off images in your web browser and visiting nokia.com21:31
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szucsatiis there a channel for general hw questions about n800?22:13
alteregoThis is the only internet related IRC channel I know about.22:13
alteregoYou might as well ask here :)22:13
szucsatiok :)22:14
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alteregos/internet/internet tablet/22:14
szucsatiso I just got my n800 and there are two strange things about it:22:14
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szucsatithe display's color is "cold", colder than 770 was22:14
alterego1) it's smaller than you thought. 2) It's heavier.22:14
alteregoI'm not sure what you mean by "colder".22:15
szucsatiand the wifi produces huge packet losses...22:15
alteregoThat that's interesting.22:15
alteregoI think you should probably get it looked at.22:15
alteregoUnless the packet loss is not related to the N80022:15
robl^could be the WAP22:16
szucsaticold: you know you can adjust your monitor's colour profile, there are cold and warm profiles.. so basically blue and red22:16
alteregoHow are you testing for packet loss?22:16
chx would something like this work with the N8x0 ? With a power injector hack, maybe using a battery like this?22:16
chxszucsati: hey22:16
szucsatii'm pinging it from my desktop22:16
chxszucsati: how much is the N800 in Hungary now? and, is there info when/how much N810 will be ?22:16
suihkulokkiszucsati: have you tried more than one access point? what access point do you have?22:17
szucsatibecause I felt the wifi working bad (for example the application manager's downloads hangs for a while than continues)22:17
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alteregochx, isn't that just a wireless card?22:18
szucsatichx: there's no 770/n800/n810 in the Hungarian market.. :( I bought my 770 in England and ordered my N800 from USA22:18
chxszucsati: that's fien with me22:18
chxalterego: It's a USB modem22:18
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szucsatisuihkulokki: I tried it in a public wlan, and I felt the same when I was browsing, sometimes it didn't work and worked again, so I gues there were some packet losses22:19
szucsatimy ap is a Fonera router, worked fine with the 77022:20
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szucsatirobl^: how do you mean "could be the WAP"? does the n800 have problems with wap encoding?22:21
alteregoHave you tried reflashing it?22:22
robl^szucsati: I had a wireless access point that was starting to act up.  it began dropping packets22:22
alteregoWell .. Flashing it ..22:22
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suihkulokkiszucsati: fonera has problems with wlan power managment (search their forums)22:23
szucsatiit came with the previous firmware, I flashed the latest but both did the same22:23
alteregoSounds like you've got a bad one.22:24
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szucsatistrange, there's no ping from my n800, but can use the browser..22:29
alteregoAre you sure you're on the same network?22:30
alteregoI tried pinging my N800 once, didn't get anything then released I'd been remotely logged into one of my servers the whole time ^_^22:30
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szucsatioh cool, it was because of i was on the fonera's public signal maybe icmp packets are blocked there22:32
szucsatinow i'm pinging my main router (wrt54gl), seems to be fine now..22:32
akai---can I format my memory card to fat32? and the swap will work then?22:33
alteregoakai---, yes22:33
szucsatiakai---: yes and you should I think, better than fat1622:33
akai---hmm is using gparted from a pc a wise idea when nokia works as the card reader?22:34
akai---my regular reader doesn't mount this card -_-22:34
alteregoakai---, that's how I did all my partioning.22:34
infobotalterego meant: akai---, that's how I did all my partitioning.22:35
flip^has anyone ever tried using tversity to provide media (video) to a n800?22:35
szucsatihm.. strange, the ping seems to be fine now22:36
alteregoThere probably isn't anything wrong.22:36
szucsatilet's see if I can download a bigger file22:36
alteregoAs far as the "cold" screen. I think maybe the backlight on the N800 is more white/blue than the 770's.22:37
alteregoThe 770 has some weird film over it too.22:37
szucsatiyes, but sometimes webpages just doesn't work, but they do on my pc at the same time22:37
alteregoExactly the same time?22:38
szucsatiand sometimes I can't refresh application lists because after downloadin a 2KB list the app manager hangs..22:38
alteregoWell, maybe there's something wrong with the web pages.22:38
szucsatione of them was :)22:38
alteregoWhich is far from perfect :P22:39
alteregoWell, it may be a hardware failure.22:39
alteregoIt might also be something wrong with your router.22:39
alteregoWhat is the signal strength like?22:40
suihkulokki22:23 < suihkulokki> szucsati: fonera has problems with wlan power managment (search their forums)22:40
szucsati100% the router is 3metres from here, and has a fontenna22:40
suihkulokki...but feel free to continue to ignore me22:40
szucsatisuihkulokki sorry I didn't ignore you :$ already opened their site for searching but didn't answer :$22:41
szucsatiso what power management..?22:41
alteregoHmm .. Maybe I should remove tk ..22:41
alteregoPfft, neah.22:41
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alteregoI probably should trim down the library a bit though.22:42
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pupnik"You don't see ducks getting on elevators to fly south for the winter."22:46
szucsatisuihkulokki: does this happen with the latest 2007HE? or just with N800+2007?22:47
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Pretorianoanyone can help me with scratchbox?22:48
Pretorianoi'm alredy on #scratchbox but is a little empty22:49
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pupnikwhat version scratchbox.  did you install from tgz, deb or Vmware image?22:49
Pretorianoscratchbox for bora22:50
Pretorianofrom tgz22:50
Pretorianoim having problems compiling a package22:50
Pretorianosbox-arm-linux-gcc: /usr/lib/ No such file or directory22:50
Pretorianobut i'm sure that it exists22:50
Pretorianolrwxrwxrwx  1 pretoria 5407 26 Oct 28 21:54 /usr/lib/ ->
suihkulokkiszucsati: I think HE still has the old kernel and wlan driver without wlan power managment support22:51
szucsatihm.. ok.. I had my 770 with HE onlyne for 6,5 hours once :)22:51
szucsationlyne > online..22:51
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szucsatiand.. does the N800 need the 52mhz + multiblock write hack or is it just for 770+mmc?22:56
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szucsatihm, now i'm having an application downloading hang, but the pings are fine..23:00
alteregoMaybe the problem is somewhere else then.23:00
alteregoWhy don't you do what suihkulokki said23:00
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szucsatican you ping now?23:01
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szucsatiwow, great news :)23:01
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szucsatiKrinyo says something about the freewlan addon that can help about this power management problem, i'll ask him (i know this guy) about it23:02
szucsatii mean in the topic that suihkulokki linked23:03
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sciboyHazzah, computer is now ready to roll!23:04
sciboyOh, need to get the right time set first. =/23:05
szucsatisuihkulokki: the topic says N800 doesn't work with Fonera anymore - does it mean somebody can't even connect to the router?23:05
sciboyWoah WTF, daylight savings.23:07
* sciboy adjusts _ALL_ his clocks.23:07
szucsatisciboy: are you late from work? :)23:07
alteregoEveryone's been complaing about that today.23:08
sciboyszucsati, ... Well if this was recent, I should've been but no i haven't had any complaints yet.23:08
sciboyalterego, You releasing that ruby package soon?23:08
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alteregosciboy, iminently23:08
alteregoIn about 10 minutes :)23:08
szucsatiyesterday we adjusted all the clocks, including dvd, hi-fi etc, today we had a power cut..23:08
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sciboyOooh goody. =D23:09
alteregoJust compiling the last set of packages now.23:09
alteregoThen I've got to upload them.23:09
sciboyTo garage?23:10
szucsatibtw packages:
alteregoI can't wait to use abiword.23:10
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alteregoIt'll make documenting more fun. Because I can do it in the pub!23:11
* sciboy replies to a debian bug with the fact that an upstream release has had the issue fixed for a couple of months now.23:11
sciboyYou'd think they'd notice, with it being an extremely serious show stopper. =/23:11
alteregoYeah,  you'd think ;)23:11
sciboyWell I don't care either way now, I'm using the upstream version.23:11
szucsatiyes abiword will be a big step :)23:12
sciboyWho here has a bluetooth keyboard?23:12
alteregoNot me.23:12
szucsatisciboy: i will have in a few days (fingers crossed)23:12
alteregoszucsati, does it go fullscreen?23:12
sciboyI was half expecting the entire to chime in with "Me!"23:13
sciboyentire channel*23:13
|Rhas anyone seen working nat modules for the latest OS2007?23:13
szucsatiszucsati: abiword? i don't know, haven't tried, i'm waiting for a deb :)23:13
* sciboy changes his assumptions accordingly.23:13
szucsatii mean alterego, not me..23:14
|Rsciboy : i do23:14
alteregoOh, sorry :)23:14
alteregoI thought you did the port.23:14
sciboyalterego, I have a lot of love for interpreted languages, there's nothing quite like rewriting functions while the application (aka. game) is still running and seeing the results.23:14
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alteregosciboy, I think you mean dynamic languages ;)23:15
alteregoSure, Ruby is interpreted. But Python isn't.23:15
sciboySince when?23:15
alteregoAnd Ruby wont be interpreted for much longer as YARV is being released with Ruby2.023:15
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alteregoPython gets compiled into bytecode sciboy.23:16
alteregoIt has a VM and everything :P23:16
sciboyalterego, I swear that still counted as interpreted though.23:16
alteregoWell, you could call a VM an interpreter. But it isn't really. It's a VM.23:17
szucsatialterego: nope; wish I could do a porting, i would port extcalc23:17
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* sciboy sets up a little sync script for his N800..23:19
* alterego builds the last module.23:20
alteregoThe "ruby-maemo" module ..23:20
alteregoThis one takes ages though.23:20
alteregoBugger I've lost my stylus.23:21
szucsatihere, take mine23:21
alteregoI had it behind my ear for some reason ..23:21
* |R wonders if anyone is using iptables -t nat or -t mangle on the n800...23:23
szucsatiit seems like the whole is half dead, it was just bad luck that I thought my beloved n800 is faulty23:24
alteregoszucsati, happens to the best of us ;)23:24
szucsatiprobably nokia's uploading the 2008OS for n800, that's why the server is slow now ;)23:25
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alteregoI doubt it.23:25
alteregoThey only need to upload it once and you'd think they'd have the bandwidth, and some ;)23:25 is always slow for me.23:25
alteregoI can't say I've had too many problems with it. Just the occasional SSL area fault.23:26
sciboyGosh Jaiku is such a tease.23:26
sciboyIt's always when you're looking for an invitation you have a hard time getting one.23:26
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sciboyOh dear, seems that the upstream version is giving me segfaults.23:28
a2eeHello folks. Anyone here running POSE on the N800?23:29
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a2eeI'm an old die-hard Palm user, and having a working POSE port in the N800 would make migrating to it really irresistible ;-)23:33
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L0c-[N800]what is pose ?23:34
sciboyPalm emulator mainly for developers.23:34
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alteregoI have a Palm T|T323:37
alteregoI installed Linux on it.23:37
amri used to love my palm23:38
alteregoMine does nothing now.23:38
amrmy m515 (old school) sits in my drawer being unused23:38
alteregoIt's probably completely dead. I stopped using it after I couldn't get BT to work :/23:38
amri had infrared23:38
amrthat was it :|23:38
alteregoI don't think I could get the IR working either.23:38
a2eeL0c-[N800]: It's a palm emulator, but not just for developers :-) In fact, when my palm IIIxe died an untimely death a few years ago, I brought up POSE on my laptop and restored my Palm backups into it... was able to go on palming while the replacement didn't arrive23:38
alteregoThough I didn't actually try.23:39
a2eePOSE on a linux laptop is quite usable, my question is whether that's the case on a N80023:39
amri could never get the serial connection working23:39
amri swear i saw a palm emulator on ITT23:39
a2eeamr: what's ITT?23:39
_MonkeyITT is
a2ee_Monkey: thanks23:40
_Monkeya2ee: de rien23:40
alteregoWell, now this is done. I can start to relax a bit more.23:41
alteregoMaybe release once every couple of weeks23:41
L0c-[N800]i've see a video on youutube with palmos running on n80023:42
alteregoI thought that was the newton OS23:42
L0c-[N800]dunno if it was a fake  or not23:42
szucsatiif i have a navkit for n800 will I get a full wayfinder licence after installing os2008 for free?23:45
L0c-[N800]this f*cking  bt keyboard while  i'm cooonnected via  bt   whiiith my phone ,doess repeat chars every  time :(23:45
L0c-[N800]any idea on  how to fix ?23:46
a2eeLoc-[N800]: located the video, it's here:
a2eeLoc-[N800]: thanks for the tip23:46
szucsatiL0c-[N800]: i thing n800 doesn't really ready to use keyboards...23:46
sciboyalterego, Again, congrats. =)23:46
szucsatiif anyone wants a bt keyboard for cheap I found some on, Microsoft Elite keyboard for 16.5usd + p&p23:48
szucsatii hope it will work with my n80023:48
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szucsatialthough this is a full size keyboard :( but it's cheap :)23:48
alteregoThe last compilation.23:48
L0c-[N800]szucsati, is it hid ?23:50
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szucsatiI hope yes23:50
szucsatiif not I wasted the money23:50
pupnikthe end of biological aging and the cure for cancer?23:52
pupniknm sorry23:52
a2eepupnik: please add me to your list :-)23:53
pupnikstill working out the bugs23:54
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DanyUPCan I ask for help here?23:55
szucsatiyes, these guys seems to be friendly and helpful :)23:56
DanyUPNice! I'm having problems installing Maemo SDK Gregale under linux23:56
szucsatiseems > seem :$23:56
pupnikif you don't get an answer right away, try again later23:57
alteregoAnd that's a wrap.23:57
pupnikand leave chat client in channel in case of a response23:57
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pupnikdone with conic alterego ?23:58
alteregoIncluding LibConIc, LibOSSO and Hildon-123:58
L0c-[N800]i want to try ruby on n80023:59
alteregoThen you've come to the right place.23:59
L0c-[N800]is it usable as python ?23:59
pupnikseems to rune fine here23:59
L0c-[N800]is it usable as python ?23:59

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