IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2007-10-28

macluvjay	k, good	00:00
timely_changelog	anyone here have access to sardine?	00:00
macluvjay	do I need to install that extra?	00:00
alterego	macluvjay, not sure.	00:00
alterego	Probably	00:00
timely_changelog	tko: hey, this one is your fault	00:02
timely_changelog	it is?	00:02
* timely_changelog can't find that in the package		00:02
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zerojay	FCC confidentiality is up.	00:09
_Monkey	i already had it that way, zerojay.	00:09
zerojay	Can we ban the stupid bot already?	00:09
celesteh	_Monkey, forget FCC confidentiality	00:09
_Monkey	celesteh: I forgot fcc confidentiality	00:09
alterego	You can always ignore it zerojay	00:09
celesteh	_Monkey, FCC confidentiality is <reply>	00:10
_Monkey	OK, celesteh.	00:10
zerojay	Yeah, but it shouldn't be here anyways.	00:10
alterego	Why shouldn't it?	00:10
celesteh	it's sometimes helpful	00:10
* alterego agrees		00:10
celesteh	anyway, when it says somethng stupid, you can remove that thing from it's DB	00:10
zerojay	It's annoying as hell and it's quite rare that it says anything even remotely helpful... nothing that you wouldn't have found quicker with a google search.	00:11
zerojay	At least it doesn't talk on its own.	00:11
alterego	Just ignore it zerojay.	00:11
celesteh	it often has the canonical answer and can be very handy for tracking down applications	00:11
celesteh	_Monkey, celesteh is a handsome devil	00:12
_Monkey	...but celesteh is back to celesteh's pre-red pill glory...	00:12
celesteh	_Monkey, forget celesteh	00:12
_Monkey	celesteh: I forgot celesteh	00:12
celesteh	_Monkey, celesteh is a handsome devil	00:12
_Monkey	OK, celesteh.	00:12
celesteh	vanity	00:12
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GeneralAntilles	_Monkey is a joke.	00:17
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alterego	Hmm .. Rails on the N810 probably makes sense I guess ..	00:52
rafl	erm.. why?	00:52
alterego	Thumb board	00:52
rafl	-v?	00:52
alterego	Sorry?	00:53
rafl	can you be more verbose about Thumb board?	00:53
alterego	The thumb board on the N810.	00:53
alterego	Having a dedicated hardware keyboard would make writing programs a lot easier on the actual device.	00:54
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rafl	did I get things wrong or isn't that related to rails at all?	00:56
* rafl waits for his garage confirmation mail :-/		00:57
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rafl	this takes ages..	01:03
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rafl	i guess normal bluetooth keyboards will work with this tablets just fine, won't they?	01:05
timely_changelog	we test w/ microsoft bluetooth keyboards	01:06
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rafl	i actually thought about getting something smaller and more portable, but i suppose they all work the same anyway	01:09
rafl	just starting hidd shoul do the trick..	01:10
timely_changelog	w/ usb there are two ways keyboards can work	01:10
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timely_changelog	i'm not sure if bt is the same	01:10
rafl	which ways?	01:10
timely_changelog	but one would hope there are a limited number of confused standards	01:10
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rafl	i once used my mobile and my wii remote as hid devices via bluetooth on my desktop and it worked fairly well with bluez' hidd.	01:13
rafl	maemo also uses bluez, right?	01:13
zerojay	Yes.	01:13
timely_changelog	OHCI and UCHI	01:14
timely_changelog	that was fun	01:14
timely_changelog	yes, maemo uses bluez	01:14
timely_changelog	oh, cute, for usb2 they created EHCI	01:15
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rafl	so everything should be fine if the keyboard behaves like a hid device	01:16
rafl	and i'm not aware of any keyboard that doesn't	01:16
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BlueGene	I like so much this irc channels, you can learn so many things :)	01:21
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BlueGene	but it's saturday night, we must go out :P	01:22
BlueGene	I read there is rumors about 3G N810	01:23
ptman	well now there certainly are	01:23
BlueGene	cool, we are like Apple ! :P	01:24
BlueGene	rumors and more rumors	01:24
zerojay	When do we start masturbating?	01:24
rafl	we can go out and still do irc! after all we have some very portable and irc capable devices :-)	01:25
BlueGene	rafl lol	01:25
BlueGene	zerojay first we must contract tunw.com domain and write so many stupid rumors on it	01:26
BlueGene	(the unofficial nokia weblog)	01:26
ptman	HAMs consider it rude (at least some of them) to be on the radio under the influence	01:26
ptman	thankfully, IRC doesn't suffer from that	01:26
zerojay	It would be better to make a fake Apple rumors site.	01:26
rafl	uhm.. wanted to register a project called perl at garage.m.o, but it tells me that unix name is already taken although the search doesn't bring up anything on that.. wtf?	01:27
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ptman	zerojay: there probably is one already	01:27
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zerojay	ptman: Probably, but it would be fun anyways as a social experiment.	01:27
BlueGene	zerojay another? google has an entire cluster lab only for this type of sites :O	01:27
zerojay	See how far your rumor goes.	01:27
rafl	garage people around?	01:27
BlueGene	who likes to be the new steve jobs?	01:28
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rafl	i just want to have his salary	01:30
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BlueGene	zerojay can you give a spech with a gadget in one hand and your ego in the another hand?	01:31
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zerojay	Heh.	01:32
BlueGene	please remember that you said something about to start masturbating	01:33
zerojay	Yeah, that would help to hold anything up.	01:33
rafl	heh.. #maemo++	01:35
BlueGene	it could be so cool. the next steve job's keynote will be steve jobs masturbate	01:35
zerojay	And there would be thousands of Apple fanboys fighting to be the one to catch his jizz as it flew off the stage.	01:36
BlueGene	with his black sweater	01:36
timely_changelog	rafl: someone ried to register perl not too long ago	01:38
timely_changelog	specifically, Oct 19	01:39
timely_changelog	it's currently pending	01:39
timely_changelog	Registration Application:	01:39
timely_changelog	The maemo community needs a central point for coordinating and documenting cross-compilation and testing of perl and CPAN modules.	01:39
timely_changelog	Short Description: Perl interpreter and CPAN extensions.	01:39
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timely_changelog	rafl: unfortunately, i'm not sure how much information i should be sharing	01:40
timely_changelog	so you'll have to ask ferenc or someone else for contact info	01:41
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rafl	timely_changelog: why isn't this project approved yet?	01:44
rafl	ferenc/	01:45
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rafl	s!/!?!	01:47
GeneralAntilles	I don't understand people who want the tablet to be a phone.	01:47
rafl	isn't it already? it has speakers, a microphone, a camera, bluetooth and wifi..	01:48
rafl	all you need, imho.	01:48
BlueGene	lol	01:48
GeneralAntilles	i.e. +cellular modem	01:48
GeneralAntilles	s/modem/radio	01:48
rafl	then I can't understand that either.. :-)	01:48
timely_changelog	rafl: well, i depends on what kind of battery life you expect out of your phone	01:49
GeneralAntilles	If people want an iPhone, they ought to just buy an iPhone, not try and ruin my beautiful ITs.	01:49
rafl	timely_changelog: agreed	01:49
timely_changelog	my old nokias from 2001/2002 had something like 1week idle	01:49
rafl	timely_changelog: who shall I try to contact wrt to information on that perl project?	01:50
BlueGene	GeneralAntilles I think 3G conection is important	01:50
GeneralAntilles	I have a phone with 3g	01:51
GeneralAntilles	Works great.	01:51
BlueGene	In Spain the problem isn't the phones, it's the price of the conection :P	01:51
GeneralAntilles	$20/month with AT&T here.	01:52
BlueGene	we don't have offers like that	01:52
rafl	GeneralAntilles: ditto in .de.	01:52
\|tbb1	when do u guys think nokia pull out a wimax it out, is it worth to wait then buying a 810 now?	01:53
shackan	\|tbb1: do you have wimax coverage in your area ?	01:53
BlueGene	it's a good question :P	01:54
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zerojay	GeneralAntilles: $100 for 100MB in Canada.	01:54
BlueGene	GeneralAntilles do you have some data restriction or something like that?	01:55
zerojay	iPhone = $800.	01:55
GeneralAntilles	Yes, we've been over the finer points of your awesome data access up there, zerojay. :P	01:55
\|tbb1	whats a wimax coverage? i was thinking having a wimax router at home i can surf near some kilometres. am iam wrong#	01:55
GeneralAntilles	BlueGene, yes and no.	01:55
GeneralAntilles	I've heard reports of one	01:55
GeneralAntilles	but I've never actually hit it.	01:55
BlueGene	GeneralAntilles could you explain me your line " <GeneralAntilles> Yes, we've been over the finer points of your awesome data access up there, zerojay. :P", please?	01:56
GeneralAntilles	We've discussed the crappy data access in Canada before.	01:56
BlueGene	ok, thanks, my English is no good	01:57
BlueGene	here I can practise it	01:57
GeneralAntilles	:)	01:57
BlueGene	I'd like that you correct me if I say something wrong :)	01:57
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zerojay	\|tbb1: There are WiMax modems. Almost all the major ISPs here in Canada have a WiMax offering now.	01:59
shackan	\|tbb1: I don't know if they're cheap enough for domestic use	01:59
BlueGene	In Spain, 60 euros/month 1Gb of data transfer	02:00
BlueGene	GeneralAntilles you can install the emule in your iPhone :P	02:01
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\|tbb1	anyone knows if the wlan chip on n810 the same as on 800	02:01
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BlueGene	<\|tbb1	02:07
BlueGene	I don't know but I'm searching it	02:07
zerojay	The FCC confidentiality stuff is up, so check there.	02:08
\|tbb1	the what	02:09
rafl	i wonder if the clutter library would run on maemo	02:09
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zerojay	rafl: Considering Karoliina is posting stuff about clutter over the last few days, I'd imagine.	02:10
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BlueGene	I think it's the same chip	02:10
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zerojay	Check thoughtfix's dmesg	02:11
BlueGene	good idea	02:11
GeneralAntilles	Man, mediaserv is the best.	02:11
rafl	zerojay: posting where?	02:13
zerojay	Planet.	02:13
BlueGene	http://thoughtfix.com/tabletblog/dmesg.txt	02:13
BlueGene	here	02:13
BlueGene	and much more stuff	02:14
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BlueGene	http://tabletblog.com/2007/10/hacker-questions.html	02:14
BlueGene	this is the entire psot	02:14
BlueGene	post	02:14
\|tbb1	k same driver cx3110x	02:14
BlueGene	[ 0.726562] drivers/usb/net/rtl8150.c: rtl8150 based usb-ethernet driver v0.6.2 (2004/08/27)	02:14
BlueGene	[ 0.726562] usbcore: registered new interface driver rtl8150	02:14
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BlueGene	it's the same driver but it can be not the same device	02:16
timely_changelog	fcc ...	02:17
BlueGene	http://tabletblog.com/2007/10/look-inside-n810.html#links	02:17
BlueGene	timely_changelog I think that you say this link	02:17
BlueGene	http://tabletblog.com/2007/10/look-inside-n810.html#links	02:18
zerojay	No.	02:18
zerojay	FCC.	02:18
BlueGene	this? https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=233495&fcc_id=%27LJPRX-44%27	02:18
BlueGene	\|tbb1 why do you like to know it??	02:22
\|tbb1	looking 4ward for an atheros based wlan chip ;)	02:23
BlueGene	I can write in the mail list but I think that all people that can answer me is here	02:24
rafl	zerojay: actually those blog posts don't say anything about maemo, do they?	02:25
zerojay	Well, they have to be showing up on Planet for a reason.	02:26
BlueGene	rafl It don't say anything about maemo but I think it's relacionated	02:26
BlueGene	it's a dmesg!!! lol	02:27
BlueGene	no maemo no dmesg	02:27
rafl	zerojay: because his blog is listed on the planet? or is there any filtering done?	02:27
* alterego debates stopping support for OS2006		02:28
GeneralAntilles	Do it.	02:28
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BlueGene	I think it's filtering	02:28
GeneralAntilles	Anybody who know's what they're doing should be using 2007HE, anyway.	02:29
GeneralAntilles	and 2008HE is all but confirmed.	02:29
alterego	Yeah	02:29
alterego	But what about the people that don't know what they're doing>	02:30
alterego	You know .. users ..	02:30
rafl	so i apparently don't know what i'm doing :-/	02:30
alterego	;)	02:30
pupnik_	save the users! think of the users!	02:30
zerojay	alterego: The same ones that wouldn't know how to install your program to begin with?	02:30
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BlueGene	I think you're a bit unhappy with something/somebody....	02:31
alterego	:)	02:31
rafl	in fact i haven't ever heared of that.. but otoh i got a tablet link three days ago.	02:31
alterego	tablet link?	02:31
rafl	eh?	02:32
alterego	You said it.	02:32
rafl	whops	02:33
BlueGene	lol	02:34
rafl	that should have been 'like'	02:34
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BlueGene	what is otoh?	02:34
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rafl	i'm new to this onscreen keyboard, you know? :-)	02:34
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rafl	BlueGene: abbr. for on the other hand	02:35
BlueGene	thanks so much :)	02:35
BlueGene	rafl where are you from?	02:35
GeneralAntilles	N800 went down again	02:35
GeneralAntilles	$218 on buy	02:35
rafl	BlueGene: .de	02:35
BlueGene	you're so near	02:36
BlueGene	20 euros with ryanair	02:36
rafl	GeneralAntilles: got mine for 150 EUR	02:36
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rafl	BlueGene: if there was an airport around here..	02:36
alterego	N800 for 150 EUR?	02:36
BlueGene	150 euros = 218 dollars :P	02:37
\|tbb1	rafl: where u have buyed it, used or new	02:37
BlueGene	I say ebay	02:37
rafl	uh.. i was thinking eur..	02:37
BlueGene	rafl me too, but I remember that euro is so higher than dollar, then I caught my calc and .....	02:38
rafl	\|tbb1: a friend bought a new one like 4 weeks ago and then wanted to have an ipod touch instead	02:39
pupnik	N800 in germany costs 1.7 times the n800 in usa (based on amazon prices)	02:39
rafl	so its almost as new, but not quite	02:39
\|tbb1	good 4 u	02:39
pupnik	With these exchange rates, it is hard to see how nokia makes profit in USA	02:39
sciboy	pupnik, Your nickname keeps popping up when ever I mention games.	02:40
BlueGene	I suscribed me to the developer program, I didn't suscribe in the 770 and N800 developer programs	02:40
alterego	Heh	02:40
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alterego	I attempted to join the developer program for the 770 but got denied.	02:40
alterego	Didn't bother with the N800	02:41
rafl	pupnik: with europeans buying things in .us because they are way cheaper there? :-)	02:41
pupnik	oh sciboy there is a blender subproject for pdas	02:41
sciboy	pupnik, Blenderpocket?	02:41
pupnik	forgot the name	02:41
\|tbb1	whats blender	02:41
_Monkey	somebody said blender was meant for desktop hardware. Not mobile hardware.	02:41
BlueGene	two friends of me joined the developer program for the 770 and they had the tablet but I don't know how, because I think they only send an email saying "I know to program, I'd like one"	02:42
sciboy	\|tbb1, 3D application for everything including the kitchen sink.	02:42
pupnik	it's a 3d modeleing program	02:42
sciboy	\|tbb1, http://www.blender.org	02:42
alterego	Interesting.	02:43
alterego	I have a feeling I got denied because I've never been a part of any open source project.	02:43
BlueGene	I have my hope on the developer program :)	02:43
GeneralAntilles	Why in the world would anybody want to use Blender on a PDA? :\	02:43
\|tbb1	4 me it dont make sense running it on a tablet	02:43
BlueGene	alterego like my friends :P	02:43
alterego	Hopefully ruby-maemo will tip the scales in my favour and I'll get accepted into the next one :)	02:44
sciboy	\|tbb1, 4 me, it features a very easy to use game engine that would allow me to really lay back and focus on content.	02:44
alterego	It would certainly be nice to write some location aware apps.	02:44
sciboy	GeneralAntilles, -> Game engine <-	02:45
BlueGene	I'd like to develop some wifi and gps applications	02:45
zerojay	alterego: If you're visible in the community, I don't see how you wouldn't get accepted.	02:45
zerojay	500 discounts..	02:45
\|tbb1	sciboy: way 2 go	02:45
pupnik	I doubt the blender game engine is usable on a tablet	02:45
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BlueGene	but It be cool if I have the tablet lol	02:45
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alterego	I dunno, 500 may seem like a lot but I don't really know the scale of the maemo community.	02:46
sciboy	pupnik, In what way?	02:46
pupnik	performance	02:46
alterego	Sure it seems quite small but nokia have to be making something from them if they're continuing the development of the platform ..	02:47
zerojay	I wouldn't say there are that many active.	02:47
* timely_changelog grumbles		02:47
sciboy	pupnik, I see no reason why it wouldn't be able to do super-low-poly work on non-float software rendering, the physics is more of a concern but what ever.	02:48
zerojay	I'd imagine you'd see the top bloggers get them.. the same ones that were invited to the latest shindig.. maybe the top 10 or 20 (known, quality) posters on ITT, maybe 10 or 20 most active/helpful bugzilla users...	02:48
* timely_changelog kicks riku for poor spelling		02:48
zerojay	timely_changelog: Found another text bug?	02:48
sciboy	pupnik, Oh and that's assuming it's pixel doubled.	02:48
alterego	It seemed like they were orienting the program at new comers too.	02:49
alterego	I suppose I'm actually a new comer :)	02:49
alterego	I've only had my tablet for about 2 months.	02:49
zerojay	Well, being a dev and all sure should help.	02:49
rafl	aww.. dropbear-client sessions always seem to hang after a short period of being idle..	02:49
alterego	Meh, dropbear sucks :P	02:50
rafl	what might be wrong here?	02:50
alterego	openssh ftw	02:50
rafl	shall i use openssh?	02:50
alterego	If you like.	02:50
alterego	It's certainly more functional.	02:50
rafl	aww.. i should get faster on this onscreen keyboard.. :-)	02:50
rafl	aye.. will try openssh-client now.	02:51
alterego	If you install the server you can get root access and use sshfs like all the cool kids.	02:52
alterego	I'll tell you what else is cool. SSH'ing to you development machine, sshfs mounting your tablet and developing programs, compiling them and testing them in the bath.	02:53
sciboy	pupnik, The game logic would have to be kept under close scrutiny and modularisation but really, none of that would get in the way of game dev.	02:53
rafl	i did get root access, but i used dropbear-server.	02:54
alterego	sciboy, have you tried talking to the guy that's been working on the port?	02:54
sciboy	I assume there is no port right now.	02:54
alterego	What about the person that wrote the forum post saying he'd got it working on his tablet?	02:55
rafl	alterego: everything you can do in the bath with your tablet is cool!	02:55
sciboy	That's already two years old, only a test and he didn't do much to get it working.	02:55
alterego	:)	02:56
alterego	That's probably a good thing ..	02:56
rafl	also.. have we started masturbating yet?	02:56
sciboy	Yes it is.	02:56
BlueGene	three times!	02:56
alterego	So why don't you try and get it working rafl?	02:56
sciboy	rafl, Since when did we ever stop?	02:56
* rafl tries to catch up		02:57
BlueGene	lol	02:57
rafl	alterego: i guess i do have it working already.	02:58
sciboy	The opengl rendering I have no doubt would be fine, but when you start taxing on the demands of game logic and physics, I'm not sure 400mhz will do it without an FPU.	02:58
alterego	Sorry rafl, I meant sciboy ;)	02:58
BlueGene	this masturbating party is remembering me that my girlfriend will go to Poland tomorrow for a week	02:58
alterego	Heh	02:59
sciboy	alterego, Because I wouldn't be able to maintain a port.	02:59
alterego	Why not?	02:59
BlueGene	me too, I must finish my computer engineer degree in december	02:59
sciboy	No interest or patience, not a programmer.	03:00
BlueGene	I'm a programmer :)	03:00
alterego	But you expect someone else to do it for you? Seriously, it's probably not that a greater task.	03:00
sciboy	I'm just an animator looking for an engine to work with so I can focus on content.	03:00
alterego	If you get somewhere with it I'd be happy to take on and maintain the project.	03:00
BlueGene	alterego what is this project?	03:01
alterego	Blender 3D modeller and game SDK on maemo	03:01
sciboy	BlueGene, Just to see whether a blender ge port could work under major performance restrictions.	03:01
rafl	so i got some perl ports working, but building them requires some modifications to the scratchbox environment. is that fine or do you maemo people have things link FTBFS bugs like we debian people do?	03:02
sciboy	BlueGene, So I can actually stop worrying about code and just crank out games on an easy to use engine.	03:02
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alterego	rafl, what kind of modifications?	03:02
BlueGene	I don't like this kind of applicatios, this is the problem :P	03:02
alterego	rafl, you're probably also best asking on the mailing list for something like FTBFS.	03:02
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rafl	alterego: two symlinks in /usr and some env vars which scratchbox fucks up.	03:03
BlueGene	I think we must port MatLab :P	03:03
rafl	BlueGene: that'd be cool, indeed.	03:04
alterego	rafl, as long as it runs on the device without any odd modifications it should be fine.	03:04
alterego	Though, you should probably submit a bug report too.	03:04
BlueGene	rafl I think MathWorks must say something about it :P	03:04
sciboy	BlueGene, If it did work I got lots of game designs I'd be happy to produce for it.	03:04
alterego	For the SDK.	03:04
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rafl	alterego: i'm fairly sure it would as it doesn't have all those scratchbox hacks, but i really don't want to try that.	03:05
BlueGene	rafl but R or octave could be ported, it's a nice idea	03:05
rafl	alterego: i don't have infinite time, you know? :-)	03:06
alterego	You don't want to try it on the device?	03:06
rafl	do the tablets have an fpu?	03:06
alterego	No	03:06
rafl	alterego: right. compiling perl the way i do takes a while.	03:07
alterego	I don't mean compile it on the device ..	03:07
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rafl	alterego: on recent laptop hardware, that is.	03:07
alterego	I mean as long as your packages work on the device.	03:07
rafl	oh..	03:07
alterego	It doesn't matter how you screw around with your SDK to get your package working.	03:07
alterego	But if it seems like there's something wrong with scratchbox or the rootstrap etc. Then you should definitely file a bug report.	03:08
rafl	doesn't that suck as you can't apt-get source and debuild?	03:08
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BlueGene	on monday I will start a mobile devices developing course in C# with visual studio 2005	03:09
BlueGene	I'm so excited!!!	03:09
zerojay	Um...	03:09
alterego	Sounds interesting	03:09
zerojay	Most mobile devices use Java.	03:09
pupnik	are you bringing a shotgun?	03:09
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rafl	it's mostly caused by the perl shipped with the perl devkit. i don't really know where to fix this, though.	03:09
rafl	BlueGene: you fail!	03:10
alterego	That sounds like a scratchbox isue.	03:10
BlueGene	rafl why?!	03:10
rafl	BlueGene: visual anything? come on..	03:10
BlueGene	xDDDDDD	03:10
rafl	alterego: or a perl issue	03:10
pupnik	rafl: what is the problem	03:11
rafl	alterego: i'd blame the former, but,i'm not entirely sure.	03:11
BlueGene	rafl you must know your enemy to hate him	03:11
pupnik	you are missing perl things in scratchbox?	03:11
alterego	Right	03:12
rafl	pupnik: missing /bin/pwd and /usr/bin/perl and weird $PATH and $PER5LIB.	03:12
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BlueGene	thin I will port mono and monodevelop to maemo platform :P	03:12
alterego	Weird	03:12
BlueGene	and you can develop with C# in the bath!!!!	03:13
rafl	symlinking the two paths.and sanatising those env vars fixes it.	03:13
alterego	I think someone is already working on mono	03:13
alterego	And I'd rather develop in Ruby than C#	03:13
alterego	Hell .. I'd rather develop in Python than C#	03:13
rafl	yeah - i've seen several mono related maemo things.	03:13
BlueGene	C# is the microsoft's Java :P	03:13
pupnik	my scratchbox has /bin/pwd and /bin/perl	03:13
alterego	BlueGene, I know, I don't like Java much either.	03:14
BlueGene	java is so good programming language	03:14
rafl	pupnik: mine didn't. freshly installed from latest packages	03:14
alterego	I disagree.	03:14
BlueGene	and you can compile it without bitecodes to have much more speedly applications	03:14
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alterego	Java could have been so much better.	03:15
pupnik	apt-cache search perl shows among others, perl-base, perl, perl-modules	03:15
alterego	If it had syntax like Ruby	03:15
rafl	pupnik: but i can try to reproduce tomorrow if you,want me to.	03:15
BlueGene	how?	03:15
zerojay	Java is the worst thing to put on a mobile device... made no sense.	03:15
alterego	zerojay, it makes perfect sense. It works on all the varying hardware that is around.	03:15
rafl	pupnik: real packages or fake packages?	03:15
BlueGene	why?	03:15
alterego	That's one good use I can see for Java ..	03:16
BlueGene	when? lol	03:16
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zerojay	alterego: Only because it was put on all of them.	03:16
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zerojay	Just about anything else would have been better on such a limited resource platform.	03:17
alterego	There was/is literally no better alternative for mobile handset development,	03:17
BlueGene	I like so much Java, C# and C++	03:17
alterego	If you want to target the entire market.	03:17
zerojay	alterego: Java isn't the entire market.	03:17
pupnik	looks real to me rafl - I don't know what your prob is, but if you want me to run any commands i can do that for you (i.e. apt-cache show or such)	03:17
alterego	BlueGene, then you're the opposite of me :P	03:17
alterego	zerojay, I was exaggerating.	03:17
BlueGene	the entire market are the users, the users do not matter what the language program you're using	03:18
alterego	But seriously, Java on mobile handsets is the best thing to happen to them.	03:18
rafl	i have an application where it doesn't make sense to turn the display brightness down. is there an api which allows me to tell maemo not to do that?	03:18
zerojay	I do mobile development professionally.. and putting Java on cell phones was just about the worst idea anyone could have.	03:18
alterego	I think you're missing the point BlueGene Java isn't a great language, it's not even that good.	03:18
alterego	zerojay, whatever ..	03:18
alterego	zerojay, what would you prefer?	03:18
shackan	and most ARM processors are optimized to run java bytecode natively, so it supposedly runs better than mono	03:19
zerojay	Anything else. Literally ANYTHING else.	03:19
BlueGene	alterego why Java is a goof language?	03:19
zerojay	BREW isn't bad.	03:19
alterego	zerojay, there is nothing else!	03:19
rafl	pupnik: dpkg -l perl-base	03:19
zerojay	alterego: Head in the sand?	03:19
shackan	zerojay: have you ever developed on BREW ?	03:19
zerojay	shackan: Yes.	03:19
zerojay	I work for a cell phone gaming company.	03:19
shackan	omg	03:19
zerojay	Java and BREW is what we do.	03:19
zerojay	Not that BREW is all that great anyways...	03:20
zerojay	The one and only thing Java gives us is the portability... but that's not even really true.	03:20
shackan	well, it's not so bad if you have a company who pays for signing certificates and stuff :)	03:20
zerojay	So many different phones have different JVMs.	03:20
zerojay	All of them with their own bugs.	03:21
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alterego	BlueGene, it's not very flexible. Has barely any introspective (reflection) capabilities. It's not very dynamic.	03:21
pupnik	ii perl-base 5.8.3-3osso4 The Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister	03:21
shackan	hahahahaha, sooo true!	03:21
zerojay	Got a Samsung that thinks a Rect with a 1 pixel border means "1 pixel border on the left and right sides and 0 border on top and bottom".	03:21
shackan	zerojay: unrelated, but do you do OpenglES stuff too ?	03:21
zerojay	shackan: Can't say we do.	03:21
rafl	zerojay: my condolence	03:21
zerojay	but we are spreading out into other areas.	03:21
alterego	I'll give it credit, it's cleaner than C++	03:22
zerojay	Which I can't talk about.. but I'm sure anyone could guess.	03:22
BlueGene	alterego could you explain this?	03:22
rafl	pupnik: erm.. how did you create that target?	03:22
zerojay	alterego: Not really. It's also slow as shit.	03:22
shackan	zerojay: SNAP and N-Gage ? :)	03:22
alterego	zerojay, maybe on the hardware you use ..	03:22
zerojay	alterego: 500+ phones.	03:22
alterego	zerojay, exactly ..	03:22
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zerojay	shackan: No, think further out.	03:22
pupnik	Filename: pool/herring/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.3-3osso4_armel.deb	03:23
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shackan	zerojay: I'm in deep water then...	03:23
rafl	herring?	03:23
lopz	hola	03:23
pupnik	deb http://repository.maemo.org/ herring main	03:23
rafl	_Monkey: where are you when i need you?	03:23
_Monkey	bugger all, i dunno, rafl	03:23
BlueGene	lopz hola	03:23
pupnik	rafl try repository search	03:24
pupnik	repositories?	03:24
lopz	hey BlueGene :P	03:24
_Monkey	repositories is probably http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php	03:24
rafl	pupnik: what does herring stand for?	03:24
lopz	BlueGene, speak spanish ?	03:24
BlueGene	lopz que remedio, soy de Leon	03:24
rafl	pupnik: some branch? something unofficial?	03:24
zerojay	The whole idea behind Java on phones is the idea that you could take the same executable and run it anywhere. But that's not true in practice. That's why for 200 phones, we have about 120 different builds.	03:24
alterego	rafl, it doesn't _stand_ for anything it's a tag	03:24
lopz	BlueGene, ah vale, y tienes la n800 ?	03:24
rafl	i see	03:24
zerojay	BREW in the US isn't very exciting, but the stuff going on in Korea with BREW is nuts.	03:25
pupnik	like gregale, mistral	03:25
celesteh	there's another idea behind java on phones, and that's the sandbox	03:25
celesteh	users can't get at thw hardware	03:25
BlueGene	lopz no, pero tu nick me suena mucho	03:25
zerojay	celesteh: Also not true in practice.	03:25
lopz	BlueGene, mm.. por que ? xD	03:25
BlueGene	en q canales sueles andar por el hispano?	03:25
lopz	BlueGene, entonces tienes la 770 ?	03:25
rafl	i haven't seen any tagged debian repository yet.. although i'm developing denian.	03:25
lopz	BlueGene, en ninguno, solo freenode :)	03:25
BlueGene	lopz no, no tengo ninguna	03:25
celesteh	theoretically a user with C or something could break telecom laws	03:25
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BlueGene	lopz y has estado metido en algun lug de linux o algo asi?	03:26
celesteh	java is such a lovely theory. really.	03:26
zerojay	I understand the choice when it was made.. it's just too bad it didn't work out.	03:26
BlueGene	well!! I think we have a new great flame!!!!!! ;P	03:26
alterego	If it was a nicer language .. It would be awesome.	03:26
zerojay	If they all used the same JVM, it would be awesome.	03:26
BlueGene	zerojay this is impossible	03:27
zerojay	BlueGene: It is now.	03:27
lopz	BlueGene, hazme un whois y mira xD	03:27
zerojay	Wasn't back when they started.	03:27
BlueGene	lopz pues sabe dios de q te conozco	03:28
zerojay	Got the LG CU920... a bit of a problem with it.	03:28
BlueGene	pero me suenas fijo	03:28
BlueGene	yo antes usaba el nick de DHUNCAN	03:28
zerojay	It's sort of like the iphone. No buttons.. entire screen.. software keyboard.	03:28
zerojay	Problem.. there's no way for us to use it in Java.	03:28
zerojay	So we either write our own virtual keyboard, or abandon the phone.	03:29
alterego	Hahah	03:29
BlueGene	zerojay the same JVM but each mobile phone has its peculiarities	03:29
zerojay	BlueGene: Wrong. Not the same JVM.	03:29
rafl	alterego: openssh gives me the same issue, except it just hangs for a while and doesn't just disconnect	03:29
zerojay	Otherwise, they would all leak memory like those fucking Nokia 3650/7650s do.	03:29
lopz	BlueGene, pues no lo sé, igual aqui paro siempre xD	03:29
alterego	rafl, maybe it's a server configuration issue then.	03:29
BlueGene	aqui nos ves, midiendonos las pollas a ver q lenguaje de programacion es mejor.....	03:30
alterego	rafl, or your wireless connection is turning off after being idle for so long	03:30
BlueGene	lo q hace el aburrimiento	03:30
alterego	Check your connection settings.	03:30
zerojay	rafl: You can have ssh send keep alive packets.	03:30
BlueGene	lopz tu de donde eres??	03:30
rafl	alterego: but my laptop, which is connected to the same host and screen session over the same route doesn't have those problems.	03:30
lopz	BlueGene, Santa Cruz, y tu ?	03:30
BlueGene	Leon	03:30
BlueGene	al rico frio del norte, oiga!	03:31
alterego	rafl, check the connection settings, specifically the idle timeout.	03:31
lopz	Okko_, que haces aqui ?	03:31
BlueGene	y q qrias preguntar en el canal?	03:31
lopz	BlueGene, nada, siempre entro :)	03:31
BlueGene	yo entre hoy por primera vez	03:31
lopz	cuando tengo un problema suele preguntar, pero rar vez , y tu ?	03:31
BlueGene	se aprenden muchas cosas	03:31
rafl	zerojay: it's not that i've been idle, but i'll investigate into this.	03:31
lopz	BlueGene, si, pero tienes algun cacharo con mamemo ?	03:31
BlueGene	hasta ahora solo estaba suscrio a la lista d desarollo	03:31
lopz	maemo*	03:31
rafl	alterego: it's 0	03:31
zerojay	rafl: It might help. Worth a shot.	03:31
BlueGene	lopz no pero estamos en ello	03:32
rafl	alterego: i.e. turned off.	03:32
alterego	0?	03:32
alterego	It shouldn't go to 0	03:32
alterego	It should be "unlimited"	03:32
BlueGene	y tu? tienes algun trasnto de estos?	03:32
alterego	"Connection Manager" -> (menu) "tools" -> "Connectivity Settings" -> "Idle times"	03:33
rafl	right. i didn't check it right now but i remembered i set it to "no idle timeout"	03:33
lopz	BlueGene, si, la n800	03:34
lopz	esta a mi lado xD	03:34
BlueGene	a mi me molaria pillar la 810 pero no se yo si se me arreglara	03:34
BlueGene	como pillaste la tuya?	03:34
rafl	oh.. hi Fatal!	03:35
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rafl	is there anything i can do about a bad quality of the bui;tin camera on the n800?	03:38
timely_changelog	lower your expectations	03:38
rafl	aye	03:38
alterego	Heh	03:38
timely_changelog	with sufficiently lowered expecations, you should not be disappointed	03:39
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rafl	can i connect arbitrary devices to the usb port?	03:39
timely_changelog	as long as they're hosts	03:39
alterego	Sure, if you enable USB OTG host mode.	03:39
rafl	well.. in a way where the devices actually work..	03:39
rafl	hrm..	03:40
timely_changelog	since the n800 is considered a dummy mass storage device typically	03:40
rafl	too bad	03:40
alterego	Devices that need power must be powered somehow.	03:40
rafl	usb keyboard would have been cool.	03:40
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timely_changelog	if you don't mind unsupported, things are possible	03:40
timely_changelog	it's only hardware+software...	03:40
rafl	i actually do mind	03:40
rafl	but i'll give it a try when i have infinite time.	03:41
alterego	time is infinite	03:41
alterego	Relatively infinite ..	03:42
Quinlan^	Thats deep.	03:42
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rafl	mine isn't	03:43
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BlueGene	does somebody knows visual paradigm?	03:44
rafl	anyone running zsh on maemo?	03:45
* timely_changelog grins		03:45
timely_changelog	glimpseindex -R is my friend	03:45
lopz	BlueGene, la 810 ? ya hay esa ? :S	03:45
BlueGene	como pillaste la tuya?	03:46
lopz	me la trajeron de EEUU	03:46
lopz	noooooooooooooooo!!!	03:47
lopz	BlueGene, tio, me pillo la N810	03:48
lopz	no sabia que ya estaba a la venta xD	03:48
celesteh	wow. i knew i should have taken spanish in high school	03:48
BlueGene	lol	03:48
timely_changelog	ceelesteh: personally, i regret not having taken french in high school	03:48
timely_changelog	but, that's because i moved to europe	03:48
alterego	Heh	03:49
celesteh	heh, me too	03:49
zerojay	I was forced to learn it in high school, which meant I didn't learn it.	03:49
rafl	celesteh: shouldn't they have taken english?	03:49
celesteh	i took german and i can still understand a lot of it. but i've lived in france, the netherlands and england. i might never get to germany	03:49
zerojay	I learned more in the last two years than I did all through school.	03:49
timely_changelog	rafl: having visited various european countries	03:49
rene4jazz	can I install libboost-dev debian testing package inside maemo gregale?	03:49
timely_changelog	just because people take English doesn't mean they can use it	03:49
celesteh	english is one of the most difficult languages to learn.	03:50
BlueGene	I don't think so	03:50
rafl	timely_changelog: i guess i pretty much prove your point.	03:50
celesteh	it's sort of obnoxious to expect everybody else on earth to have to spend years studying may native language	03:50
lopz	BlueGene, me pillo la n810 tio, me pongo al caso :)	03:50
BlueGene	lops pues a ver de donde la sacas, xq aun no ha salido a la venta	03:50
celesteh	mi lernis esperanton, sed mi forgesis tuton	03:51
BlueGene	Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!!!!!!	03:51
celesteh	hahaha!	03:51
BlueGene	lopz pues a ver de donde la sacas, xq aun no ha salido a la venta	03:51
zerojay	Nobody expects Japanese Herpes either.	03:51
celesteh	um. ew.	03:51
zerojay	Sorry. I felt the need to match up with BlueGene's completely random sentence. ;)	03:52
rene4jazz	un minuto por favor: Can I install a debian testing package inside maemo gregale?	03:52
timely_changelog	you succeeded	03:52
lopz	BlueGene, ni en EEUU ?	03:52
BlueGene	no	03:53
BlueGene	mediados de noviembre	03:53
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BlueGene	zerojay :P	03:53
BlueGene	rene4jazz solo sabes decir eso? :P	03:53
lopz	BlueGene, joder, espero que baje un pco el precio	03:54
BlueGene	mejor	03:54
BlueGene	480 euros xD	03:54
rene4jazz	no sé decir otras cosas, pero éso es una duda que tengo ahora ;)	03:54
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BlueGene	de donde eres??	03:54
rene4jazz	cubano	03:54
BlueGene	me ha dado clases de microsoft wpf las dos ultimas semanas un cubano llamado octavio	03:55
timely_changelog	is an email w/ only 3 letters in it "spam"?	03:55
rene4jazz	nice	03:55
lopz	BlueGene, a esperar no queda mas	03:55
zerojay	timely_changelog: Are the 3 letters "yes"?	03:55
BlueGene	rene4jazz un cachondo mental :P	03:55
timely_changelog	MsD	03:55
rafl	aw.. i have a shiny device with a touchscreen now and i already start using it like any other computer.. with the commandline :-/	03:55
BlueGene	lopz pues si	03:55
zerojay	timely_changelog: Spam.	03:56
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BlueGene	yo me piro para la cama q estoy reventado!!!!!!!!!	03:56
BlueGene	I go to bed, I'm so tired	03:56
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BlueGene	good night to all :)	03:56
BlueGene	zerojay be careful with the Spanish Inquisition	03:56
lopz	bye BlueGene good look	03:56
zerojay	zerojay: Watch out for Antarctic assblasters.	03:56
BlueGene	lopz tu sabes lo que es un assblaster??	03:58
zerojay	lol	03:58
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BlueGene	zerojay what is an assblaster??	03:58
lopz	BlueGene, no, que es ?	03:58
rafl	you'll get to know those soon enough.	03:59
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BlueGene	creo que algo malo, no se xq me da	03:59
sixpence	Alright!	03:59
sixpence	I sold my n770 and mustered up the cash for an n800	03:59
zerojay	BlueGene: Just kidding around. It's nothing, man. Sleep well.	03:59
sixpence	Now the big question...	03:59
sixpence	Do I buy it?!	03:59
rafl	sixpence: why not an n810?	03:59
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sixpence	rafl: I dunno maybe a TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR DIFFERENCE?!	03:00
BlueGene	zerojay I think it's something bad	03:00
GeneralAntilles	Buy.com is under $220	03:00
rafl	sixpence: i wouldn't know. i have an n800 and i'm quite happy with it.	03:00
zerojay	BlueGene: It was just a stupid joke.. nothing meant against you whatsoever. Just another random two words.	03:01
sixpence	Well.	03:01
lopz	xD	03:01
sixpence	Looking at the n810 and n800 side by side. What's the main difference? GPS? I don't own a car. Youtube works on both.	03:01
sixpence	Both have a camera..	03:01
sixpence	I don't really like the slider keyboard anyway..	03:01
timely_changelog	the screen	03:01
timely_changelog	do you walk around in the sun	03:01
timely_changelog	i.e. do you live somewhere outside of finland?	03:01
doublec	the n810 is smaller too from the pics	03:01
sixpence	timely_changelog: Nah.	03:01
sixpence	I live in Ontario	03:02
sixpence	Plus	03:02
timely_changelog	it's slightly smaller	03:02
sixpence	I won't be taking it outside in the Sun.	03:02
GeneralAntilles	and heavier.	03:02
BlueGene	but you can close your window's bath, no sun then	03:02
timely_changelog	because they moved the menu/humb keys into the keyboard	03:02
timely_changelog	that's actually fairly annoying ime	03:02
rene4jazz	can I install debian testing packages inside maemo gregale?	03:02
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timely_changelog	since i really do use the menu key	03:02
BlueGene	uno que se va pra la cama	03:02
* timely_changelog can live w/o the other keys		03:02
BlueGene	rene4jazz creo q tienes algo en el wiki de maemo	03:02
BlueGene	ale, un besin	03:03
BlueGene	zerojay night :)	03:03
timely_changelog	anyway, if you don't need the screen or the keyboard, get the n800	03:03
rene4jazz	ok, lo voy a buscar	03:03
BlueGene	lopz nos vemos....	03:03
timely_changelog	and flash w/ itos2008 when it arrives	03:03
lopz	adiós BlueGene	03:03
rafl	isn't the nseries intended to be used,in baths only anyway?	03:03
timely_changelog	hi doublce	03:03
lopz	BlueGene, me dejaste con la n810 xD	03:03
timely_changelog	blah	03:03
doublec	hi timely_changelog	03:03
BlueGene	jodete xD	03:03
* timely_changelog should sleep instead of typing in the dark		03:03
doublec	hehe	03:04
BlueGene	q yo no tengo ni una ni otra	03:04
timely_changelog	tonight i hope to finish this changelog	03:04
timely_changelog	it's haunted me for over a week	03:04
timely_changelog	i think i've decided to move all the negatives into bugs though :)	03:04
timely_changelog	much better than in a changelog	03:04
timely_changelog	oh	03:04
BlueGene	bye bye....	03:04
timely_changelog	doublec: fwiw, there's a sardine xref up	03:04
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lopz	BlueGene, pero yo ahora la quiero pues	03:04
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zerojay	timely_changelog: The weird first attempt at scrolling bug brings you back to the top of the page is fixed?	03:05
timely_changelog	zerojay: i believe we properly resolve bugs in bugs.maemo when we fix them	03:06
timely_changelog	so if you were a good boy and filed it :)	03:06
timely_changelog	.. you wouldn't have to ask me :)	03:06
rafl	how much traffic do the -users and -devel lists have?	03:06
timely_changelog	enough that i refuse to subscribe to either :)	03:06
timely_changelog	doublec: of course, browser is http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/	03:07
zerojay	I'll look.. but there's a lot of bugs that are actually fixed that don't get marked as fixed in Bugzilla or not until much later.	03:07
timely_changelog	so you have both :)	03:07
rafl	timely_changelog: what are you changelogging for?	03:07
timely_changelog	rafl: microb of course	03:07
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timely_changelog	zerojay: if you want to look through my latest incomplete draft...	03:08
zerojay	timely_changelog: Sure.	03:08
rafl	timely_changelog: where from should i know? usung maemo for just a few days now..	03:08
timely_changelog	_monkey timely?	03:09
_Monkey	timely_changelog: i don't know	03:09
timely_changelog	_monkey timeless?	03:09
_Monkey	bugger all, i dunno, timely_changelog	03:09
* timely_changelog sighs		03:09
timely_changelog	useless bot	03:09
zerojay	lol	03:09
timely_changelog	http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/4/	03:09
timely_changelog	is the beta changelog for reference	03:10
timely_changelog	he changelog is a delta agains the release there	03:10
timely_changelog	and as you can see, my 't' key does't really work	03:10
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timely_changelog	so if you see 'wo' i's probably a typo for 2	03:10
timely_changelog	he stuff in <pre> isn' done yet	03:11
* rafl likes the name		03:11
timely_changelog	which name?	03:11
zerojay	Looks like a good list to me.	03:11
rene4jazz	BlueGene: do you have the maemo wiki link?, I search for it, and did not find anything about installing debian packages	03:12
rafl	although ~8mb aren't too micro.	03:12
rafl	timely_changelog: microb.	03:12
_Monkey	microb is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)	03:12
rafl	_Monkey--	03:13
_Monkey	rafl: i'm not following you...	03:13
rafl	thought so	03:13
timely_changelog	_monkey: _monkey-- is <reply> ~nobody likes me, everybody hates me, ...~	03:14
timely_changelog	_monkey--	03:14
_Monkey	timely_changelog: what?	03:14
* rafl gives it a try		03:14
timely_changelog	bah	03:14
rafl	_Monkey-- # again	03:14
_Monkey	rafl: i'm not following you...	03:14
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rafl	dammit.. this n800 is too slow to play my favourite video podcast :-/	03:30
sixpence	How is youtube on the n800?	03:31
rafl	i'll give it a try.	03:33
zerojay	Works well enough for me usually.. just slightly lower framerate.. probably will be better in IT2008 though with the bump up in speed.	03:35
rafl	not all that good	03:35
pupnik	thoughtfix showed youtube on the N810 - it was better	03:36
pupnik	but a youtube frontend that downloads and launches mplayer will always be smooth	03:36
rafl	zerojay: hows the os involved in youtube speed? better flash plugin? faster browser? less overall overhead?	03:37
timely_changelog	rafl: "os" is sorta a useless term	03:37
timely_changelog	between ios2007 and itos2008, the clock speed changed	03:37
rafl	timely_changelog: i agree	03:37
timely_changelog	in 2007 i was always fixed at less than max	03:37
zerojay	rafl: The N800 is underclocked to 330mhz.. and supposedly will be allowed to run fullspeed in IT2008 because of improved power management.	03:37
timely_changelog	in 2008, it's variable, and will change dynamically, up to full speed	03:38
zerojay	400mhz, I believe.	03:38
rafl	i see	03:38
timely_changelog	yes	03:38
rafl	that sounds good	03:38
zerojay	Same thing Sony did with the PSP.	03:38
timely_changelog	well, it really depends	03:38
rafl	why isn't it available for the n800 already?	03:38
timely_changelog	hey're still rying to pick the final flash image for the release	03:39
zerojay	Because it's probably in the final stages of testing/approval.	03:39
pupnik	GeneralAntilles: your post on N900 features should be gospel :) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=87569&postcount=6	03:39
rafl	thought it would be shipped on the n810 already	03:39
timely_changelog	my mailbox lists 2 official final images for itos2008	03:39
zerojay	rafl: It will be.	03:39
rafl	i see	03:39
timely_changelog	there's supposed o be only one <g>	03:39
GeneralAntilles	Ha, thanks, pupnik. :)	03:39
timely_changelog	please don't ask me how they managed to do hat	03:39
timely_changelog	or when they expect to finalize it	03:40
timely_changelog	i'm pretty sure they're overdue :)	03:40
timely_changelog	fwiw, browser team actually does care, but not because there are browser bugs we could get fixed (we can't)	03:40
timely_changelog	and not between the two images in question (They don't help us)	03:40
timely_changelog	but because there are bugs in media player that we wan fixed	03:40
zerojay	Good.	03:41
timely_changelog	(for which fixes seem in hand, but not yet in candidate images)	03:41
timely_changelog	which means i really don't care	03:41
zerojay	I know I saw four of my media player bugs fixed a few days ago.	03:41
timely_changelog	wow	03:41
zerojay	A nice surprise to wake up to.	03:41
timely_changelog	zerojay: speaking of which	03:42
timely_changelog	if you could help out by setting targetmilestones to 4.0 (or whichever makes sense) on FIXED bugs, that'd be great :)	03:42
* rafl goes to bed		03:43
zerojay	timely_changelog: Sure, but I don't think I have the ability to do so. Let me check.	03:43
zerojay	Ah, indeed I do.	03:44
zerojay	timely_changelog: Change it to 4.0 on newly fixed bugs then?	03:45
_Monkey	zerojay: that doesn't look right	03:45
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zerojay	The four I mentioned?	03:45
timely_changelog	yes	03:45
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timely_changelog	as long as they indicae it'll be fixed for 2008 and not some service release	03:45
zerojay	Okay.	03:46
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Rask330	Hm. The N800's not too hot on the youtube videos. :<	04:06
pupnik	the power of our thumbs will compel you	04:07
Rask330	Thumbs?	04:08
GeneralAntilles	Ha	04:08
pupnik	(buttons for both thumbs)	04:08
pupnik	Rask330: i think there are media players for the tablet that download vids then play them in mplayer	04:09
Rask330	Hm. Can you link me? :o	04:09
pupnik	i forgot - is it ukmp/	04:09
GeneralAntilles	It's not UKMP, but it's from the same people/person.	04:10
pupnik	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26UXJOTkTk GeneralAntilles	04:11
pupnik	thumb want	04:11
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, just saw that on ITT.	04:11
GeneralAntilles	looks cool.	04:11
pupnik	thumb will get	04:11
GeneralAntilles	I think it's probably a little big to be realistically put into an IT.	04:12
pupnik	there are smaller versions too	04:12
pupnik	but that's the basic idea	04:12
GeneralAntilles	Make for a cool scrolling system.	04:12
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, IT = new N-Gage	04:13
GeneralAntilles	I like the idea.	04:13
pupnik	i'm betting it won't happen though. so the other option is the craigulator, and putting pda-apps on it	04:13
pupnik	craigulator will probably get openembedded. Will have all the controls i want, and be omap 3430 + GL	04:15
pupnik	the tablets will probably not want to go with buttons on both sides, for marketing/image reasons	04:16
GeneralAntilles	Which is stupid	04:16
GeneralAntilles	and too bad	04:16
pupnik	i dunno...	04:16
pupnik	i can imagine a lot of people with money, who won't like a device with buttons for both thumbs	04:17
GeneralAntilles	I buy devices for what they do and how functional they are, not for image. :\	04:17
GeneralAntilles	buttons for both thumbs . . . makes me think of thumbboards and laugh.	04:19
pupnik	Well at least nokia did a great thing and gave us the N810 - a different hardware layout for the N800	04:25
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sixpence	So how do you all think the n800 will handle the os 2008?"	05:04
timely_changelog	since it's equivalen to the n810 wrt hardware, about as well as the n810	05:05
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sixpence	Really?	05:05
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sixpence	The processor and ram is exactly equivilent?	05:05
timely_changelog	processor is	05:05
sixpence	So does that mean youtube becomming more smooth is software and NOT hardware?	05:05
timely_changelog	shrug, i work on the web browser	05:06
zerojay	sixpence: First, as far as I know, Flash has been updated to the latest beta.	05:06
timely_changelog	and "more smooth" in the vague context of "some extremely complicated and highly ambiguous web application" is at best hard to quantify	05:06
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zerojay	sixpence: Second, the tablets will allow dynamically changing the clock speed higher for more intensive applications and stuff.	05:07
zerojay	I'd imagine flash would be able to take advantage of that.	05:07
timely_changelog	the platform does it automaically, flash doesn't have any influence (or shouldn't)	05:08
sixpence	zerojay: On BOTh tablets.	05:09
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zerojay	sixpence: Both tablets use the same firmware and are virtually the same to the kernel. If it sees GPS when it boots, it'll load the GPS kernel module.. if not, it's ignored.	05:09
zerojay	If the modules are not built into the kernel, that is.	05:10
sixpence	zerojay: Alright. I got it. :d	05:10
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zerojay	A lot of people don't realize that the N810 isn't really meant to be an upgrade like the N800 was to the 770.. but more of a consumer mainstream friendly version of the N800.	05:18
pupnik	An alternative form factor	05:19
zerojay	Yep.	05:19
pupnik	For maemo to take off, i think we need a diverse set of portables running the ITOS	05:21
pupnik	From different manufacturers even	05:21
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cesman	anyone using gmyth and maemomyth around?	06:42
sparr	is there a good forum for maemo users?	06:42
cesman	sparr: internettablettalk.com	06:42
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sparr	ok, maybe someone will buy my 770s	07:04
zoran	it could serve you fine for years	07:06
sparr	side-grading back to a gp2x soon	07:06
sparr	im mostly a gamer, and since the new gp2x has a touch screen it can fill my small PIM needs too	07:06
zoran	you could consider 770 as full grade pc	07:06
sparr	http://sparrsstuff.com/maemo <-- its not like i am unaware of what it can do :-p	07:07
zoran	I wasn't aware of gp2x, have to admit	07:08
lopz	bye	07:08
sparr	had one before my 770. got stolen :(	07:09
sparr	some jackass thought it was a PSP, had it in a PSP case	07:09
sparr	wont make that mistake again	07:09
zoran	how much it costs?	07:09
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sparr	about $180	07:10
zoran	not so much	07:10
zoran	it could kill n810	07:11
sparr	nah	07:11
sparr	no wifi	07:11
sparr	no keyboard	07:11
sparr	no [large] built in storage	07:11
macluvjay	gp2x only playstation?	07:11
zoran	command line?	07:11
sparr	no package manager	07:11
sparr	macluvjay: huh?	07:11
zoran	ah	07:11
macluvjay	i want nes emu	07:11
zoran	k, looks similar to 770/800	07:12
sparr	gp2x has a great NES emulator. ditto SNES. crappy PSX emulator	07:12
macluvjay	awesome thanks	07:12
sparr	nokia could make a killing with a game device based on maemo... real d-pad, shoulder buttons and right side buttons, it would rock	07:12
sparr	but it wouldnt be as fast as the gp2x	07:12
macluvjay	where can i get?	07:12
sparr	gp2x has two ~250MHz ARM cores	07:13
zoran	the first result on google	07:13
sparr	macluvjay: http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/Where_to_Buy%3F	07:13
sparr	first google result is probably gp2x.co.uk, not the cheapest or fastest place to order from unless you live in the UK	07:13
macluvjay	takes me to the archive index	07:13
sparr	http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/Where_to_Buy	07:13
sparr	the gp2x is designed for gaming, with PIM as an afterthought. the opposite of maemo.	07:14
zoran	sparr, I see 800/810 as play on device	07:14
macluvjay	ah	07:14
sparr	zoran: without a real d-pad its mostly impossible to play most real action/arcade games for more than a few minutes	07:14
zoran	-hm, not a fan of gaming	07:14
macluvjay	was hoping for a small emu for the 800	07:15
cesman	sparr: I wouldn't say it is the opposite for maemo	07:15
cesman	the ITs aren't PIM devices	07:15
sparr	gp2x doesnt [normally] run X11 like maemo does, they have their own light weight GUI that shuts down when you run a game. the games tend to be very low level as well, often written with large chunks in asm, manipulating the device hardware directly instead of using high level stuff	07:15
sparr	cesman: i know, but the gp2x is also not an internet tablet	07:15
zoran	for those $180 it plays mp3 and shoes video, if I see it correctly	07:15
cesman	sparr: I think the perfect portable would be a combination of the N8xx and a GP2X	07:15
sparr	yes, it plays mp3 and shows video	07:15
zoran	*shows	07:15
sparr	cesman: i have thought that for a long time, with influences from the NDS and PSP and Mylo as well	07:16
zoran	sparr, a lot of folks want just that	07:16
sparr	cesman: somewhere in N-space, there is an imaginary handheld with all the great features of all those platforms... but no one makes it :(	07:16
sparr	zoran: QVGA isnt as good for video as the 770/8xx	07:16
zoran	conmpaq has fine line of ipaqs	07:16
zoran	sparr, you are correct	07:17
sparr	"the" gp2x software archive: http://archive.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi	07:17
sparr	should see a major influx of new stuff once the new model hits the streets, with a touch screen.	07:18
sparr	touch screen opens up a lot of options for non-gaming apps, and for non-action games	07:18
cesman	sparr: there is a new gp in the works?!	07:18
zoran	it reminds me of what people want from new phone model: good camera, video, music, organizer...; no phone usage?	07:18
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sparr	cesman: yes, gp2x F200. its the MK2 with a touch screen and a d-pad	07:19
cesman	got a link?	07:19
sparr	cesman: and not "in the works"... it shipped to distributors this week.	07:19
sparr	http://www.google.com/search?q=gp2x+f200 :)	07:20
cesman	:)	07:20
cesman	just did	07:20
zoran	someone knows what is going on with 2600.net?	07:20
sparr	http://gp2x.co.uk/	07:20
sparr	other than those two things, and a slot for the stylus, its supposed to be functionally identical to the F100, and perfectly software compatible.	07:21
sparr	lots of devs are doubtful about the "perfectly" part, odds are some hardware addresses have changed that they didnt bother to document, but thats small change	07:21
sparr	the gp2x is an excellent platform for very low level development. if i ever get off my ass and do something original, instead of crappy ports (i ported enigma, mostly), it will be a good item for my portfolio trying to find a game development job	07:23
sparr	gp2x restarted my interest in very low level programming	07:24
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niosop	Figure you might be getting this alot, but anyone gotten python installed on latest revision for the n800?	07:49
zerojay	Yes.	07:49
niosop	any hints? Keep getting dependancy errors w/ libsdl-ttf and a couple others	07:50
zerojay	Er.. that's odd.	07:50
zerojay	Never had those issues.	07:50
zoran	change fonts?	07:50
_Monkey	zoran: that doesn't look right	07:50
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zerojay	Installed perfectly fine in blue pill mode.	07:50
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niosop	It installed fine for me earlier today, but after reflashing to latest version, it doesn't anymore :(	07:51
zoran	new os version?	07:51
niosop	nod, 4.2007.38-2	07:52
zerojay	That's a month or so old now.	07:52
timeless	38 isn't a new version anyway	07:52
timeless	it's the same as he previous version w/ a kernel fix	07:52
niosop	nod. That's why I didn't get why it would cause dependancy problems.	07:52
zoran	I meant, is it different from the previous?	07:52
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keesj	zoran: how about wifi and bleutooth , ain't that handy?	08:39
zoran	keesj, remind me, please	08:40
keesj	the gp2x does not have such connectivity right?	08:40
zoran	supose so; don't have the gadget	08:40
zoran	sparr is the guy with that dude	08:41
keesj	I think that the 770 + wii controller should beat the gp2x anyday anytime	08:41
zoran	I like my 770 as all round box	08:41
zoran	but I think it as real computer, with linux as method	08:42
sparr	gp2x does not have built in wifi or bluetooth	08:42
zoran	I read phone reviews now and found it close to any pc already	08:43
sparr	but the gp2x has more processing power than the 770	08:44
keesj	two cpu's but not really used right?	08:45
sparr	the core OS uses one. the other is used by some stock apps, some homebrew apps.	08:45
sparr	there are libraries to do math and 2d and 3d graphics on the second cpu	08:45
keesj	nice, I did not know that	08:46
sparr	the built in media player uses both, so it can decode more compressed video than the 770	08:46
zoran	I see people on the bus playing fabulous games on their phones; some phones are the size of medium brick	08:47
zoran	I recall people in flight, using laptops for some basic game, that children almost have it on the wrist watch	08:48
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sparr	yeah	08:50
sparr	im happy with SNES emulation on the gp2x. that alone is enough gaming to last a lifetime	08:51
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sparr	the homebrew and such is just icing on the cake	08:51
zoran	sparr, what is snes?	08:52
sparr	super nintendo entertainment system	08:52
zoran	:)	08:52
sparr	nintendo's 16 bit console, circa 1990	08:52
zoran	my cousin likes game emulators on his xp, for old spwctrum amiga etc	08:53
sparr	there are emulators for almost every old console for the gp2x	08:53
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sparr	http://archive.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,5	08:53
zoran	I recall of the game called "elite", about space traders and more	08:54
sparr	elite, elite 2, elite plus. if you liked elite and have a PC, try oolite	08:54
zoran	hm, not so interested, but liked it that days	08:54
sparr	and if you like MMO games, there is Jumpgate (out of business?) and Earth and Beyond and EVE Online	08:54
zerojay	A version of Elite for the NES was finished but never was produced... the programmers released a free ROM if you're interested.	08:55
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zoran	I like another kind of stuff now	08:55
sparr	zerojay: im sure i already have it... years ago i took the time to download every ROM of every game for every console up to the SNES :)	08:56
zerojay	sparr: There's always new dumps.	08:56
sparr	sure, but odds are i wont be looking for them	08:56
zoran	sparr could build a library of games and ask nokai to fund it	08:57
sparr	http://rafb.net/p/nIkH8I80.html	08:57
zerojay	I've got a huge rom collection as well.	08:58
zoran	games and video and music feed all those devices like phones, 770/800, all kind of players	08:58
zerojay	Got you beat.	08:58
sparr	at some point there are diminishing returns	08:58
sparr	i wasnt really trying to set a record	08:59
zerojay	Me either.	08:59
zerojay	I just want everything I could possibly want to play.	08:59
sparr	just trying to reach the "i probably wont have to hunt for a ROM for [insert game here] next year when i want to play it" point	08:59
zerojay	Full MAME set, full PS1 set..	08:59
sparr	PS1 is a little more disk space than i want to dedicate	08:59
zerojay	Understandably.	08:59
sparr	MAME is on my to-do list	08:59
zerojay	Full US set, ~390GB.	09:00
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zoran	or nas as game server?	09:00
sparr	zoran: that too	09:00
zerojay	zoran: I've got my PC set up for playing games locally but also serving by Samba to two Xboxes.	09:01
zoran	you could hae all games on the storage and call them from emulator, not having it all around at your box	09:01
zoran	if emu supports net protocol	09:02
zerojay	Unfortunately, not all do.	09:02
zoran	I saw one linksys nas device for about $70 and space for 2 usb hdd	09:02
zerojay	NSLU-2.	09:03
zoran	yes	09:03
zerojay	I wanted one of those for a while.	09:03
zoran	not sure ifit is fast enough	09:03
zoran	me too	09:03
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zoran	there is newer one, but does not look so fine as nslu2	09:04
zerojay	Linksys?	09:04
zoran	yep	09:04
zoran	cannot recall the name	09:04
zoran	gonna google	09:04
zoran	nas200	09:05
* czr mornings all		09:05
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* zoran gone to feed dragons		09:07
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pupnik	sparr: awesome pic http://sparrsstuff.com/gallery2/d/6656-2/img_3088.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=e4842c01406e6bea705c5446938f73c8	09:17
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pupnik	Anybody want to work on porting arm-optimized SNES emulator to 770/N800?	09:22
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czr	leg-optimized might be better	09:35
czr	I'd like to work on it, but no spare time sadly :-(	09:35
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pupnik	neato - java http://alexander.lash.googlepages.com/n800n770work	09:51
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:19
sparr	pupnik: so many different varieties of ARM, and most optimizations arent so much for the CPU as for the supporting hardware	10:21
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pupnik	And the number of hours you have spent learning SNES emulation = ?	10:24
pupnik	Sorry - anyway i don't think that's right.	10:26
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pupnik	Big gains are achieved with ARM ASM rewrites of cores and ppu	10:27
pupnik	blitting to screen and sound output should be efficient, but only becomes a real issue at > 10fps	10:29
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sparr	learning?	10:47
sparr	not sure what you mean	10:47
sparr	most good SNES emulators on weak hardware make very specific use of the hardware for things like sprite and tile blitting	10:47
sparr	sure, someone could write an uber all-ARM-asm implementation of that, but it would be crap compared to an emulator optimized for a specific platform	10:48
sparr	and it would still only run on a particular subset of ARM chips. ARM 5? ARM 7? ARM 9? with or without THUMB? with or without the FPU?	10:48
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* sp3000 grumbles		12:11
sp3000	guess what doesn't have the right time this morning	12:12
* sp3000 wonders why that is		12:12
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Jaffa	sp3000: European clocks went back last night.	12:21
* Jaffa guesses you knew this, though		12:21
sp3000	right.	12:22
sp3000	everything else handled it	12:22
* sp3000 isn't ruling out misconfiguration		12:22
sp3000	oh maybe everything else has the wrong time. hmm.	12:23
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Jaffa	It's currently 10:24 GMT/UTC	12:24
sp3000	well doh is me	12:27
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sp3000	so everything else is wrong, instead :)	12:28
sp3000	that's ...a kind of encouraging	12:29
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sp3000	that's what you get when you're not up at 3am with your machines to see them cope with a dst switch with hwclock set to local	12:30
* sp3000 wonders when that last happened :)		12:31
sp3000	time sucks	12:31
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crazyjim	hi there.....	13:46
crazyjim	real noob needs some help from a wise one	13:46
pupnik	sparr: ok Granted, I should have specified that the ARM-optimized SNES emus use ARM7 / ARM9 instructino sets. Beyond that, no target-hardware-specific acceleration has been implemented in any of them. No emulator offloads sound emulation onto a dsp. No emulator implements SNES PPU (pixel processing unit) acceleration using target-hardwar gpu acceleration (compositing/sprites).	13:47
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pupnik	jo crazyjim	13:47
crazyjim	hi	13:47
_Monkey	what's up, crazyjim	13:47
crazyjim	ummmm well I got a cheap nokia 770	13:48
crazyjim	and I have put some apps and games on it	13:48
pupnik	I have an expensive one :\|	13:48
crazyjim	i need a good browser as I am having issues with some sites	13:48
pupnik	microb?	13:48
_Monkey	microb is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)	13:48
pupnik	minimo?	13:48
_Monkey	minimo is (Mini Mozilla) Web browser, a slimmed down version of mozilla browser aiming resource reduced devices. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/minimo/	13:48
crazyjim	can i run minimo .2?	13:49
crazyjim	or is it just minimo_0.16.8-2	13:49
crazyjim	i did install that but found it would crash or disapear	13:50
pupnik	dunno - i just use opera and avoid nasty sites	13:50
crazyjim	its sites with applets and clever stuff	13:50
pupnik	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9125&highlight=microb	13:51
crazyjim	i will have a read	13:52
crazyjim	is there anything real cool to run on your 770?	13:52
crazyjim	like the best thing ever??	13:52
GeneralAntilles	ScummVM	13:53
_Monkey	ScummVM is a program which allows you to run certain classic graphical point-and-click adventure games, provided you already have their data files. http://770.fs-security.com/scummvm/	13:53
GeneralAntilles	or bash	13:53
GeneralAntilles	depending on your slash	13:53
GeneralAntilles	well . . . ash	13:53
GeneralAntilles	*slant	13:53
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crazyjim	thats cool... really want to get some goof flash games going but no joy	13:54
crazyjim	summit like swords and sandals	13:54
pupnik	the flash games are awful slow, unique311 put together a flash games package you can download	13:55
pupnik	but most of them suck on 770	13:55
pupnik	you have mplayer? that's a great movie player.	13:55
sbz	the best :)	13:56
crazyjim	yeah I have that	13:57
crazyjim	what sort of res do you convert the film too?	13:57
crazyjim	352x288?	13:57
pupnik	400x240 - do not exceed 240 in height	13:57
pupnik	mediaconverter?	13:57
_Monkey	i heard mediaconverter was a frontend to mencoder which transcodes videos to a 770 or N800 optimized format. Get it here: http://mediaconverter.garage.maemo.org/	13:57
crazyjim	site wont load :(	14:03
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pupnik	garage looks down	14:05
pupnik	http://www.bleb.org/software/770/770-encode.pl there's the command line version	14:06
pupnik	770-encode?	14:06
_Monkey	hmmm... 770-encode is a perl script to transcode video to 770/N800 friendly format. Get it at http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#encode A java GUI version for win/OSX/linux can be found at http://mediaconverter.garage.maemo.org and an alternative shellscript transcoder can be found at http://www.modeemi.fi/~cosmo/projects/encode770/	14:06
* Jaffa bingles _Monkey's advertising.		14:09
* zeenix notices that it's a frustrating weather in fi		14:09
zeenix	unfortunately, it will continue to be so for another month or two	14:09
Dasajev	for about six months :)	14:10
suihkulokki	zeenix: that's why we invented sauna	14:11
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zeenix	Dasajev: wrong	14:18
zeenix	Dasajev: it's much better when there is snow	14:19
Dasajev	if there is	14:19
zeenix	suihkulokki: no! you invented sauna because you people like to be naked :)	14:19
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crazyjim	my 770 fails to update rge package list and has not done so for 2 months.... anyone else had that issue ever	14:26
Robot101	zeenix: is it Cold(tm) now?	14:30
zeenix	Robot101: not so cold but dark	14:31
Robot101	zeenix: did your clocks change today?	14:32
zeenix	Robot101: yup	14:36
Robot101	phew, could have got confusing otherwise :)	14:37
crazyjim	when you convert a full film (700mb avi) what sort of size is it for Nokia 770?	14:37
zeenix	Robot101: ?	14:38
Robot101	I think the US didn't change yet? or does that only happen in spring?	14:38
GeneralAntilles	~600-700MB, crazyjim	14:39
crazyjim	really?	14:40
crazyjim	thats massive!	14:40
crazyjim	its half the resolution so i was thing 350/	14:41
crazyjim	*thinking	14:41
GeneralAntilles	Half the resolution, same bitrate, basically.	14:42
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crazyjim	where can i get the convertion software from as the garage site is down	14:47
GeneralAntilles	Dunno, but you can just use your favorite video conversion software	14:48
crazyjim	lol....	14:48
crazyjim	240 max height?	14:48
GeneralAntilles	MPEG4 video, MP3 audio, 1000-1500Kbps 20-30fps, 400x240 (400x*** for widescreen and 320x240 for 4:3)	14:49
zeenix	Robot101: when is UK joining the schengen? i want to visit there for a weekend but tooo lazy to go through the visa process :(	14:49
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Robot101	zeenix: it's we're not that likely to any time soon as far as I know, something to do with not really trusting the rest of europe to do good enough imigration control :P	14:50
Robot101	s/it's //	14:51
infobot	Robot101 meant: zeenix: we're not that likely to any time soon as far as I know, something to do with not really trusting the rest of europe to do good enough imigration control :P	14:51
GeneralAntilles	and who could blame you?	14:51
GeneralAntilles	Just look at France. :\	14:51
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zeenix	GeneralAntilles: what about france?	14:52
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alterego	libsmbclient .. Interesting.	15:02
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Jaffa	Apparently the Bunsfield Oil Depot fire destroyed the computer system which was handling the details of Britain joining Schengen, so now it's not happening.	15:22
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alterego	Hahah	15:24
Jaffa	It's little far-fetched, then you think about other Governmental computer systems...	15:25
alterego	Yeah	15:25
alterego	Like the farse with the NHS last year	15:26
rafl	wtf.. apt-get update doesn't say there was an error but still returns != 0 and tells me to run it again to to correct the problem. what might be happening here?	15:26
rafl	have you guys branched apt for maemo?	15:26
alterego	Not as far as I know rafl.	15:26
alterego	What does apt actually say?	15:27
alterego	apt-get install -f ?	15:27
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rafl	the dpkg database is consistent, so -f install doesn't do anything.	15:28
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rafl	update just gives a few warnings wrt archive keys and then just fails.	15:29
pupnik	http://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html coin shrinking	15:33
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rafl	is the automatic onscreen keyboard completion hackable somehow?	15:37
rafl	will os2008 reduce batterylife as it's not underclocking anymore?	15:38
Jiten	rafl: it'll be underclocking more ... most of the time.	15:39
alterego	rafl, it shouldn't.	15:39
alterego	The frequency scaling and power saving is very good in the tablets.	15:39
rafl	so basically better powermanagement which allows the cpu to run at higher frequencies when needed?	15:41
rafl	cool..	15:41
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p\|	re	15:44
p\|	if i format my mmc2 in ext2 format, after boot how to reload the ext2 module automatically ?	15:45
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rafl	how about an init script?	16:09
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rafl	uh.. garage refuses to work :-/	16:12
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p\|	mmm	16:31
p\|	after latest firmare i'm unable to load ext2 module...	16:32
zoran	device/os?	16:32
p\|	it report "Unknown symbol in module (-1):no such file o directory	16:32
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p\|	n800/2007.38.2	16:33
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zoran	do you have ext2.ko in current?	16:33
p\|	no	16:33
zoran	ah!	16:33
zoran	ext3?	16:33
p\|	'/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.18ecc....	16:34
zoran	list it	16:34
p\|	i have not current	16:34
p\|	dunno why	16:34
zoran	what is in 2.6.18... ?	16:34
L0c-[N800]	insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.18-omap1/ext2.ko	16:35
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zoran	you read my minds	16:36
L0c-[N800]	ext2 and 3 modules does exists	16:36
L0c-[N800]	also bnep module is gone, so no PAN connections...	16:37
zoran	loading manualy would give the answer	16:37
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zpol	hola	16:39
_Monkey	bonjour, zpol	16:39
DRoBeR	Hola, zpol .	16:40
L0c-[N800]	ciao zpol	16:40
zoran	_Monkey speaks even swiss language	16:40
_Monkey	zoran: i'm not following you...	16:40
zoran	_Monkey got R2D2 extension	16:40
_Monkey	zoran: what?	16:40
zpol	heya L0c-[N800] DRoBeR	16:40
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rafl	can i adjust the onscreen keyboards size?	16:46
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alterego	Why would you want to?	16:48
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rafl	because i prefer to see more of the actual application.	16:50
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Jaffa	For those who haven't seen mediaserv in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBmU_I_FlXc	17:02
pupnik	very fast startup time	17:05
pupnik	is that family guy thing transcoded?	17:05
flip^	anyone wanna buy me a n810...	17:05
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, mediaserv is wonderfully fantastic. :)	17:06
Jaffa	The source is DVD rip at 720x576 at ~1000kbps video bitrate and 192kbps audio on a 1GHz VIA C3 processor.	17:06
sparr	Jaffa: fulls creen would be nice	17:07
Jaffa	Press the full screen key: it's the standard media player (or mplayer, depending on how you've configured your web browser and/or Video Center)	17:07
pupnik	i don't see how it starts the transcoding so fast. must have a small buffer on the server side.	17:08
Jaffa	Buffer size is configurable, defaults to 2 seconds.	17:08
Jaffa	That's 770-encode's "average" preset too.	17:09
rafl	hrm.. mediaserv <3	17:10
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rafl	i wonder how hard it would be to set up a crosscompilation environment without scratchbox. it's constantly biting me..	17:17
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rafl	LD_PRELOAD, LD_LIBRARY_PATH, PATH, ... it's just insane :-/	17:19
pupnik	i never mess with default scratchbox ld environment	17:20
rafl	esp. that libresolv hack bugs me.	17:20
rafl	well.. i'd like to not mess with it, but i want my things to be ported..	17:21
rafl	i wonder if sb2 would be better. at least it sounds less insane.	17:21
pupnik	i just mentioned this because it might be informative to know that pupnik does not need to mess with these things to compile many programs	17:22
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suihkulokki	rafl: sb1 "works" for current stuff, so nobody bothers working on sb2 rulesets	17:22
rafl	i got your point, but my apps seem to have weird build systems	17:23
suihkulokki	what apps?	17:23
_Monkey	apps are small	17:23
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suihkulokki	fuck _Monkey	17:23
rafl	like things depending on perl.	17:24
suihkulokki	that's tricky	17:24
suihkulokki	you really want to use host perl for most stuff	17:24
suihkulokki	so it needs to be figured out when you actually need the target perl	17:25
zoran	perl could be life saving for development	17:25
rafl	indeed. i got it working but it required lots of hacks.	17:25
zoran	with perl and python, no need for sb	17:26
rafl	zoran: eh?	17:26
zoran	it is ascii	17:26
suihkulokki	there is still lots of perl/python modules compiled in c	17:26
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zoran	just copy needed libs or modules from desktip	17:27
zoran	suihkulokki, correct	17:27
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rafl	getting xs (i.e. compiled) modules working wasn't that hard	17:29
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rafl	other apps with unflexible build systems linking against shared perl are hard.	17:30
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rafl	vim, for example.	17:32
zoran	?	17:32
zoran	you already have vi	17:33
rafl	sure, I do.	17:34
rafl	and I want vim with embedded perl.	17:34
zoran	ah	17:34
rafl	and I think I got that now	17:37
rafl	that and vim-gkt	17:37
rafl	*gtk	17:37
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macluvjay	whatś´the secret to getting screen on the n800?	17:47
macluvjay	bah, silly bt keyboard	17:47
macluvjay	looks like it requires debconf, but we only get fakedebconf	17:47
zoran	screen for more then one shell?	17:47
macluvjay	correct	17:48
zoran	does apt-get help?	17:48
macluvjay	like I said ^	17:48
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zoran	macluvjay, I installed it on 770 with no hiss, but cannot recall deps	17:50
rafl	aww.. die scratchbox! die!	17:51
rafl	buggy python wrapper around chmod :-(	17:51
zoran	bad wizard takes all	17:51
macluvjay	apt-cache show debconf only returns fakedebconf	17:51
zoran	I took bin file and just followed, what app manager asked	17:52
sp3000	macluvjay: screen from where?	17:52
zoran	could be diff for your device	17:52
sp3000	oh, nm	17:53
* sp3000 missed the pre-depends line		17:53
macluvjay	apt-get install screen returns screen: PreDepends: debconf (>= debconf 0.2.17	17:53
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zoran	do you see it in any rep?	17:54
sp3000	oh, actually	17:54
macluvjay	in the gui application manager and apt-cache search	17:54
sp3000	macluvjay: screen from where?	17:54
zoran	ApplicationCatalog2006 has it for sure	17:54
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macluvjay	this is n800 IT2007	17:55
sp3000	4.0.3-0.3osso2 from rmo/bora Pre-Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) \| debconf-2.0, the latter of which is provided by fakedebconf	17:56
sp3000	which repository, rather	17:56
macluvjay	hmm, apt-cache show doesnt tell what repo?	17:56
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cbx33	hey guys	17:56
sp3000	apt-cache policy does to some extent	17:57
zoran	I see debconf in repository/maemo.org/pool	17:57
cbx33	can we mount webdav shares yet on the n800	17:57
sp3000	4.0.2-5maemo3 from mg.pov.lt would seem to have more demanding predeps	17:57
* zoran gone to say "hi" to dragons		17:57
macluvjay	aha!	17:57
macluvjay	4.0.2-5maemo3	17:58
macluvjay	mg.pov.lt bora/user Packages	17:58
macluvjay	sp3000: what would you suggest?	17:59
macluvjay	what is the repo for the 4.0.3 you listed?	18:00
konttori	hey pupnik: you around?	18:00
sp3000	oh	18:02
* sp3000 forgets that apt-get policy sucks and apt-get showpkg's version lists that are really local paths express repositories better, ironically		18:03
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sp3000	macluvjay: well, 4.0.3-0.3osso2(/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-armel_Packages)	18:03
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sp3000	of course that's a repository thatäs "meant to be used with the 'apt-get' tool only within the SDK environment" so go figure	18:04
sp3000	per http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_debian, but then again http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories has no such admonishment	18:04
sp3000	in the future, this all will make sense! ...right	18:05
amr	is it just me or is the garage down	18:10
sp3000	seems moderately dead yeah	18:13
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rafl	why isn't ar available? :-(	18:19
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macluvjay	sp3000: tahnk you so much!	18:27
sp3000	amr, seems to be back fwiw	18:27
zerojay	It went down last night too, around 1am.	18:28
zerojay	1am EST.	18:28
playya	anyone tried to compile e for n800?	18:29
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sp3000	wasn't so much down as very slow for me	18:32
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macluvjay	playya: rasterman has scrots on his site about having it running	18:38
macluvjay	you probably want to speak with him	18:38
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playya	ok	18:39
playya	i found a video on youtube	18:39
macluvjay	oh?	18:39
macluvjay	url	18:39
p\|	what about bnep.ko module for latest n800 firmware ?	18:40
p\|	does it exists ?	18:40
playya	http://youtube.com/results?search_query=enlightenemnt+n800&search=Search	18:42
rafl	I looked into edje on maemo as well for writing a shiny xmms2 client with it, but I must admin that I still prefer the clutter api.	18:44
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macluvjay	I like the onscreen keyboard, but tttttttthe others I wasnt so impressed with	18:51
macluvjay	s/with/by/	18:51
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macluvjay	btw, the new plankton theme is way hot	18:52
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BlueGene	hi hi hi :)	19:31
BlueGene	hola :)	19:31
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BlueGene	is somebody from Poland?	19:34
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pupnik	i love nvi for a vi	20:14
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lopz	hola	20:20
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BlueGene	q pasa nene	20:22
lopz	BlueGene, tio, anoche me soñé con el n810 :\	20:22
BlueGene	me q?	20:22
lopz	estoy pensando seriamente comprarme ese cacharo	20:23
lopz	BlueGene, que me he soñado	20:23
BlueGene	no deberias	20:23
BlueGene	nadie lo recomienda	20:23
lopz	BlueGene, por que no ?	20:23
BlueGene	xq es casi lo mismo q el 800	20:24
BlueGene	yo no lo haria	20:24
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lopz	mm.. pero el GPS mola tio	20:24
lopz	pero no, creo que tienes razón, mejor me quedo con mi n800 y espero que salga otro con alguna caracterítica que valga la pena	20:25
BlueGene	si, no te vayas a perder en esa isla tan enorma xDD	20:25
lopz	BlueGene, tu cual quieres pillarte ?	20:25
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zerojay	Anyone here use Blogger?	20:27
celesteh	yes	20:27
celesteh	I use blogger	20:27
zerojay	celesteh: Think you can try to reproduce my bug on Microb... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2180	20:28
celesteh	um	20:28
celesteh	i need to update my os first	20:28
BlueGene	lopz yo no tengo un duro	20:29
lopz	xD	20:30
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amr	thememaker is pretty cool	20:55
amr	its going to take utterly ages to make my theme though	20:55
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zerojay	amr: Why>	20:56
zerojay	?	20:56
amr	i have nothing planned and i'm kind of winging it	20:56
amr	atm its a plankton rip off for the 770 :P	20:56
amr	well, the colours	20:56
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Andy80	hi	21:14
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alterego	Thumb scrollbar?	21:24
alterego	Interesting ..	21:25
zerojay	Where's that?	21:25
alterego	hildon-helper.h	21:25
alterego	I'll have to look into that.	21:26
zerojay	Is it new in Chinook?	21:28
alterego	Yes	21:28
alterego	I think so.	21:28
alterego	Though it's not documented.	21:28
alterego	I think it makes up for the functions that are documented that aren't actually in the SDK.	21:28
zerojay	Hah.	21:29
alterego	Like Karma ..	21:29
zerojay	Karma? What is it supposed to be?	21:29
alterego	A natural order to things :)	21:29
alterego	Well, it's a force that balances good and bad.	21:29
zerojay	Oh, I thought you meant that Karma was a function documented in the SDK.	21:30
alterego	Hah	21:30
alterego	hildon_find_toolbar_get_last_index()	21:30
zerojay	It would explain people saying "my tablet doesn't like me anymore".	21:30
alterego	That's missing.	21:30
alterego	When I've finished scanning Hildon I'll send a mail with all my complaints to the mailing list ;)	21:31
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BlueGene	hi :)	21:37
alterego	Hello there.	21:37
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tko	alterego: hildon-list, right? :)	21:49
alterego	:)	21:49
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lopz	re	21:55
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* zeenix should learnt to read and write his mother tongue so he can do the translation		22:07
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pupnik	"A child's second language should be a programming language."	22:15
glass	learning english in current world helps a lot towards that.. at least if you intend to be serious about it	22:16
pupnik	yeah i'll change that to third	22:16
glass	though, for learning basic english all you need is to leave around copies of leisure suit larry	22:16
pupnik	hehe	22:16
pupnik	infocom taught me typing	22:16
pupnik	well - it helped	22:17
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sp3000	irc!11	22:23
sp3000	...or ...not.	22:24
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pupnik	hmm 3430 claims support for 1024x768 displays. This is 2.048 times as large as framebuffer needed for 800x480	22:42
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pupnik	http://www.pvr-extremist.com/default.asp#ID634 Games running on PowerVR MBX (omap2420) demoe'd at GDC Expo 2006	22:56
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pupnik	http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/11/11/q3ce_powervr/ Quake 3 Arena @ 25 fps on Dell Axim X51v with PowerVR MBX Opengl ES 2.0 drivers	23:02
Rask330	Have any of you guys on the USA side of things managed to get AT&T to set you up with a halfway decent data plan that works with the N800? :D	23:05
deejoe	Rask330: wouldn't that depend on the phone used, too?	23:06
Rask330	Probably.	23:06
Rask330	I'm just getting a ton of inconsistent responses from their idiot sales department... X)	23:06
deejoe	ah, yeah, good luck with that.	23:06
deejoe	not that I have experience with AT&T idiocy per se, just with sales departments generally.	23:07
Rask330	"Duh, you want to use your phone to download more ringtones?"	23:08
Rask330	One rep actually said, in the same call, the following:	23:08
Rask330	(1) My phone did, in fact, support use as a bluetooth networking gateway.	23:08
Rask330	(2) They didn't have any data plans that were compatible with the phone.	23:08
Rask330	(3) They could put a data plan on my phone, but it would cost thousands of dollars because it's a "manufacturer concern".	23:09
Rask330	(What a "manufacturer concern" was, they did not say.)	23:09
Rask330	One wonders why Motorola would be concerned that someone was using a data-enabled phone for data.	23:10
pupnik	US needs europes data plans, and europe needs US's culture of open hotspots	23:10
alterego	data plans in the UK are aweful.	23:10
Rask330	The US telecommunications industry needs to pull its head out of its arse...	23:10
alterego	At least they were last time I looked ^_^	23:11
Rask330	I am still amused and disgusted that they charge as much as $0.15 per text message with a straight face.	23:11
alterego	Text messaging hasn't been all that popular in America.	23:11
Rask330	Maybe it would be if it wasn't so overpriced...	23:12
Rask330	You're using a tiny fraction of the bandwidth needed for a voice call, yet they actually seem to charge more.	23:12
alterego	Well, you can pay twice that for texts in the UK.	23:12
alterego	Almost twice that.	23:12
alterego	I think I get charged 10p per text.	23:13
pupnik	in germany i see video calls and television over umts advertised	23:13
pupnik	ow	23:13
glass	television over umts is pretty widespread	23:14
glass	operators like to have "mobile tv"(even if almost nobody actually watches it).. and thats the current way to deliver it	23:14
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lauti	hallo?	23:27
zerojay	Hello.	23:29
lauti	new on this channel...	23:31
lauti	going to develop a upnp control point	23:31
zerojay	Sounds good to me.	23:31
lauti	after the one offensichtlich nokia is buggy and closed source	23:32
lauti	gui hangs regularily...	23:32
lauti	on n700 at least	23:32
lauti	annoying-...	23:32
lauti	will be here frequently asking questions ;-)	23:33
lauti	checkout http://wap-5000.wikispot.org	23:35
alterego	N700?	23:38
alterego	Is that a tablet>	23:38
lauti	n770, sorry	23:39
zerojay	Just 770. It's not in the N series.	23:39
alterego	Ah, the Nokia 770	23:40
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lauti	can anyone tell me if the canola team israelischen going to support external renderers?	23:42
alterego	isrealischen?	23:42
alterego	What's with the strange random words ..	23:42
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pupnik	i can translate from german if that helps	23:43
lauti	shit... auto-completion of the virtual keyboard...	23:43
MoRpHeUz	pupnik: plz =)	23:43
k-s[WORK]	lauti: it's sunday, 18:42 here... were're still working on canola 2	23:43
alterego	Hah	23:43
MoRpHeUz	=)	23:43
k-s[WORK]	lauti: so, we're quite busy :-P	23:43
MoRpHeUz	lauti: anyway, what does israelischen mean ?	23:44
alterego	It's 21:46 here, and I'm still working on Ruby-Maemo ^_^	23:44
* alterego wants a team :)		23:44
k-s[WORK]	:-D	23:44
k-s[WORK]	at least we're paid to do so... and it's a good amount :-P	23:44
alterego	Oh thanks.	23:44
alterego	I'll just give up now then shall I :P	23:44
MoRpHeUz	hahaha	23:44
pupnik	maybe a diminuitive israeli girl in lederhosen and pigtails	23:44
k-s[WORK]	alterego: it was not directed to ya!	23:45
alterego	:)	23:45
lauti	all: israelischen was a typo... the auto-completion placed it next to the spacebar	23:45
alterego	I've got a few more classes to implement (5). Then I can look forward to a few hours of testing.	23:46
Ryback_	lol	23:46
lauti	i am writing on n770 right now	23:46
alterego	IF the tests go well. I should be able to release some chinook packages tomorrow.	23:46
k-s[WORK]	alterego: there are some bindings for EFL-Ruby	23:46
k-s[WORK]	alterego: could you take a look?	23:46
alterego	k-s[WORK], sure.	23:47
k-s[WORK]	alterego: you could try to rewrite my iphone-like vkbd in ruby!	23:47
k-s[WORK]	:-)	23:47
alterego	I'll put it on my things to do.	23:47
k-s[WORK]	then people can write beautiful apps in ruby too	23:47
alterego	k-s[WORK], are you the indt guy that wrote that vkbd in Python then?	23:47
k-s[WORK]	yep	23:47
k-s[WORK]	:-)	23:47
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alterego	:)	23:47
amr	anyone here ever used thememaker?	23:47
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lauti	k-s: are you from canola team?	23:48
k-s[WORK]	cmarcelo, MoRpHeUz and Ryback_ are the (un)fortunate to work with me in the canola team	23:48
rafl	k-s[WORK]++ # your edje on maemo stuff	23:48
alterego	I'm just looking forward to getting this release out so I can start developing my own apps.	23:48
k-s[WORK]	lauti: yes	23:48
amr	i'm getting a gap on my left border	23:49
amr	a solid blue line	23:49
amr	and i can't seem to find where it is	23:49
k-s[WORK]	anyone will be at ELC-2007/Austria?	23:51
k-s[WORK]	(from CELF)	23:51
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lauti	k-s: so what about controlling external upnp renderers by canola?	23:59

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