| Ar-ras | but i dont find the link | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| pupnik | flasher? | 00:01 |
| _Monkey | flasher is available from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com | 00:01 |
| shapr | I just got a bluetooth dongle, how do I pair with my desktop? | 00:01 |
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| kala | anyone knows how to use something in the "Beneath a Steel Sky" under scummvm? | 00:06 |
| kala | :) | 00:06 |
| pupnik | i played through it a few years ago | 00:07 |
| kala | well, I can pick up a rung or something, but how to use it on the door? | 00:07 |
| pupnik | can't remember, sorry | 00:07 |
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| Ar-ras | try to push or press | 00:08 |
| * flip^ chuckles as he goes through the process of reinstalling everything on his n800 for the third time this week | 00:08 | |
| kala | oh, I got the menu :) | 00:09 |
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| kala | auto-hide on the top of the screen :) | 00:09 |
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| flip^ | can you rename the default program groups in the app menu (Web, Utilities, Tools, etc)? | 00:22 |
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| penguinbait | relay=smtp.comcast.net, dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: | 00:53 |
| penguinbait | you think this is comcast stopping my mail server? | 00:53 |
| penguinbait | what the heck does deferred mean | 00:53 |
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| pupnik | postponed | 01:01 |
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| NeoStrider | hello folks | 01:04 |
| NeoStrider | keesj: are you there? | 01:04 |
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| zerojay | penguinbait: Pretty sure Comcast does not allow you to host a mail server. | 01:58 |
| penguinbait | had one for 5 years | 02:02 |
| penguinbait | its killing me | 02:02 |
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| lopz | re | 02:25 |
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| * sp3000 boggles | 02:26 | |
| sp3000 | http://www.google.fi/search?q="taska+dn"+site:maemo.org&filter=0 | 02:27 |
| sp3000 | bugs.maemo.org linkifies the url only up to q :( | 02:27 |
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| Esworp | what are the criteria for vudochst over google talk? i gave yet to have it work. | 02:46 |
| Esworp | er. vidchat | 02:46 |
| * pupnik dunos | 02:48 | |
| pupnik | i still need to get voip goin on 770 | 02:48 |
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| pupnik | 52 4F 4E 20 50 41 55 4C 20 32 30 30 38 20 21 21 21 | 02:52 |
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| Esworp | nice number sequence. you must be left-handed | 02:56 |
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| ds3 | wireless key? =) | 02:59 |
| zerojay | ASCIII text. | 03:01 |
| pupnik | :) | 03:03 |
| pupnik | http://www.vortex.prodigynet.co.uk/misc/ascii_conv.html | 03:03 |
| * pupnik giggles and scampers off | 03:03 | |
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| zerojay | pupnik: Are you from France? | 03:09 |
| pupnik | non, pourqoi? | 03:09 |
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| zerojay | Because of the 20 before the 21's. | 03:11 |
| pupnik | tht's ascii space, no? | 03:12 |
| zerojay | Yes. | 03:12 |
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| zerojay | It's something most French people do. | 03:13 |
| zerojay | Putting a 20 before the 21s like that. | 03:13 |
| zerojay | Separating them. | 03:13 |
| pupnik | i did not know this :) | 03:13 |
| Pio | echo -e "\x52\x4F\x4E\x20\x50\x41\x55\x4C\x20\x32\x30\x30\x38\x20\x21\x21\x21" | 03:14 |
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| pupnik | "52 4F 4E 20 50 41 55 4C 20 32 30 30 38 20 21 21 21".split.map{|i| eval("0x" + i).chr}.to_s | 03:16 |
| |R | haha | 03:16 |
| zerojay | pupnik: It's something you learn when you do a lot of text translations... and because our game would see the space, if it was at the end of the line, it would wrap so that the 21 was at the bottom of the next line all alone. | 03:16 |
| zerojay | So I spent a good amount of time adding in A0's instead of 20's for those cases. | 03:17 |
| Pio | for i in 52 4F 4E 20 50 41 55 4C 20 32 30 30 38 20 21 21 21 ; do echo -en "\x$i" ; done | 03:17 |
| pupnik | oh i like this one | 03:17 |
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| lopz | bye | 06:04 |
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| latzko | hi | 09:28 |
| latzko | In Layout mode I got this: Oct 17 08:25:21 Nokia-N800-10 DSME: error reading fd (12): Resource temporarily | 09:28 |
| latzko | unavailable | 09:28 |
| latzko | and it hangs | 09:29 |
| latzko | have you got any tips? thanks | 09:29 |
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| |R | FUCK!! | 09:58 |
| |R | i just trashed /bin by error | 09:58 |
| |R | can't start a shell or anything anymore :((( | 09:59 |
| |R | will have to redo EVERYTHING ! | 09:59 |
| dpryo | pwnd! | 09:59 |
| |R | :/ | 09:59 |
| * |R hates himself | 10:00 | |
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| |R | urhm, anyone know why after reflashing the cards don't get mounted automagically? | 10:58 |
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| |R | ah doh, usb cable | 10:58 |
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| |R | */&/*($ crap... now microb package breaks the browser and completely kills it if removed... wth! | 11:14 |
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| keesj | I had the same problem at one time | 11:23 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:31 |
| keesj | Yo | 11:32 |
| sujan | Good morning | 11:32 |
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| sujan | Hello! | 12:20 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 12:41 |
| flip^ | mornin' | 12:47 |
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| Jiten_ | anyone else tried using gazpacho? 0.7.2 (the maemo version) seems to be somewhat unstable. | 13:12 |
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| Jiten_ | not mention that I can't specify a toolbar for my program with it that works the way as in the tutorials at www.maemo.org | 13:25 |
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| czr | gday | 13:28 |
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| dneary | seen qgil | 13:34 |
| _Monkey | qgil was last seen on #maemo 29 days, 20 hours, 7 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying: we have completed the upload and we are doing the last testing before announcing the release [Mon Sep 17 15:26:40 2007] | 13:34 |
| Big_B | good morning(~ugt) | 13:34 |
| dneary | Thanks _Monkey | 13:34 |
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| czr | silly question, is using cairo now "a good & sane thing", or is it still dog-slow? | 13:42 |
| Big_B | i can't run "fakeroot apt-get install hildon-libsmm-dev hildon-fmmm-dev" command for maemo 2.2 target . Please anybody tell me what should i do to run it | 13:44 |
| Big_B | Anybody please!!!!!!!!!!!! | 13:45 |
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| mbuf | is there a unique serial number on an N800 device? | 13:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | The WLAN code. | 13:57 |
| cosmo | Big_B: type it in scratchbox and press enter? | 13:57 |
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| Big_B | I did that | 14:03 |
| Big_B | but i got this mess" fakeroot apt-get install hildon-libsmm-dev hildon-fmmm-dev | 14:03 |
| Big_B | Reading Package Lists... Done | 14:03 |
| Big_B | Building Dependency Tree... Done | 14:03 |
| Big_B | E: Couldn't find package hildon-libsmm-dev | 14:03 |
| Big_B | " | 14:03 |
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| lardman | kulve: ssvb sent me an mp3 dsp task he found, might be of interest to you, and I could do with some help debugging it | 14:28 |
| lardman | kulve: meeting now, will give you an url when I get back ~30min | 14:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810 | 15:06 |
| lardman | kulve: cool :) | 15:06 |
| lardman | oops wrong person | 15:06 |
| lardman | just a general cool :) | 15:06 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: Good find | 15:07 |
| lardman | kulve: mp3 code here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/mp3/ | 15:07 |
| lardman | kulve: I've made some changes so it compiles, correctly, will add them to the dir when I head home for lunch in a few | 15:08 |
| keesj | it's for real | 15:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | nachin007 on itt spotted it | 15:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | erm, sachin | 15:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Figured it might interest this group. ;) | 15:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not sure why they put the d-pad on the slider, though. | 15:10 |
| TPC | thats just my luck... | 15:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | If it's not a real spec-bump over the N800 I'm going to wait. | 15:10 |
| lardman | a slider - rejoice! | 15:10 |
| TPC | only weeks after I get a N800 the N810 is announced | 15:11 |
| TPC | :( | 15:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | What did you pay for the N800? | 15:11 |
| czr | it's announced already? | 15:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | The pics are up | 15:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | no announcement as yet | 15:11 |
| TPC | well, its going to be announced | 15:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tabletblog.com/ | 15:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's the place to watch. | 15:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Here's to hoping for a 3000-series OMAP and OpenGL drivers, though! | 15:13 |
| czr | ah, I'm just waiting for the official stuff. | 15:13 |
| czr | and a picture better than the fcc stuff :-) | 15:13 |
| * GeneralAntilles points up. >_> | 15:13 | |
| czr | tabletblog = official? | 15:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810 | 15:14 |
| czr | ah, sry, missed that :-) | 15:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fullsize USB | 15:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Looks like a 3-position stand, too. | 15:15 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: I think it'll still be a 24xx series, with higher clock speed. Hopefully the PowerVR mbx will be working though... | 15:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'm probably not buying if it's 24xx | 15:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | How high can they push it, really? | 15:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want my ~600Mhz CPU. ;) | 15:16 |
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| czr | GeneralAntilles, I have couple of 550 Celerons spare. | 15:16 |
| czr | the question is, how much do you want your 600MHz! :-) | 15:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Will they run on that battery for 3+ hours? :P | 15:17 |
| czr | of course | 15:17 |
| czr | given large enough battery | 15:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | By "that", I mean BP-5L. | 15:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, anybody more informed about the USB spec than myself wanna confirm if A-port means host-mode? | 15:18 |
| czr | A-port I think is the connector type | 15:18 |
| czr | so basically just a full size connector. | 15:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, no. | 15:18 |
| czr | oh | 15:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's not a full-size connector on there. | 15:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scales are a bit off. :D | 15:19 |
| czr | looks like it, at least on http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/n810_15_low.jpg | 15:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | It does, but compare it to the one on the N800 | 15:20 |
| czr | hmm. let me get it | 15:20 |
| czr | you're right | 15:20 |
| czr | it's the same as on N800 methinks | 15:20 |
| czr | meh. difficult to say from that angle. | 15:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 15:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's deceiving | 15:21 |
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| czr | hmm. a question relating to sw packaging in maemo. where should I install my files in bora? | 15:23 |
| czr | talking about regular application binaries, data files, etc | 15:23 |
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| czr | in 770 it was under /var/install-blah, but I guess that's wrong nowadays, so any hints/ideas? | 15:23 |
| cosmo | czr: have you read maemo packaging howtos? | 15:25 |
| czr | cosmo, yes | 15:25 |
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| czr | they don't mention anything about file paths | 15:25 |
| lardman | same as standard Linux | 15:25 |
| lardman | i.e. /usr/bin | 15:25 |
| czr | lardman, /usr/bin etc? | 15:25 |
| czr | great. | 15:25 |
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| * czr hugs lardman | 15:25 | |
| cosmo | 469€ price for 810 in finland (was in verkkokauppa.com) | 15:25 |
| czr | in a purely platonic manner of course | 15:25 |
| lardman | /usr/local/ is probably the place one should install things, but it's not in the path afaik | 15:25 |
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| cosmo | but where is the stylus? | 15:26 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that the stylus is madness | 15:26 |
| lardman | so use /usr/bin etc | 15:26 |
| czr | lardman, /usr/local/ is for modifications done by the local administration which fall outside package management (in FHS) | 15:26 |
| czr | lardman, so in this case /usr/bin would be more correct imho (when speaking about packaged software) | 15:26 |
| lardman | czr: is it? I thought it was for packages added ontop of the standard ones | 15:27 |
| czr | lardman, well, not sure whether maemo is FHS compliant or not | 15:27 |
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| lardman | czr: or do you mean stuff compiled and installed is added there? | 15:27 |
| czr | lardman, latter | 15:27 |
| lardman | s/is/should be | 15:27 |
| czr | anyhow, outside package management | 15:28 |
| czr | so manually building from source and make install- kind of stuff. | 15:28 |
| pupnikU4 | i hope that dpad has gliding motion not clicking presses | 15:30 |
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| pupnikU4 | it should be possible to hold device with first and second fingers while using dpad and keys with thumb | 15:31 |
| solmumaha | i hope they stop releasing this often | 15:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | How are frequent releases bad? | 15:34 |
| pupnikU4 | we've been saying that similar device with different form factors would help sales | 15:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N800 isn't going to suddenly become useless. | 15:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Nokia isn't going to flip a switch and turn it off. | 15:35 |
| rev | the n810 sure looks tasty! | 15:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | App development has continued just fine for the 770, even with the N800 on the market. | 15:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | They've already stated that the N800 is good for at least two more OS updates. | 15:35 |
| pupnikU4 | so now ppl have the choice between an 800 w/o kbd and an 810 with kbd. good news! | 15:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully we get the specs soon. | 15:36 |
| rev | GeneralAntilles: has the api changed enough that that would matter? i always saw the 770 2005/OS2006/N800 binary thing as being a matter of abi or something | 15:36 |
| solmumaha | GeneralAntilles: they are bad, money wise ;) | 15:37 |
| rev | which is to say, in the few external apps i've moved up for myself, i never had to do anything more than recompile, it seems, and notthing with my own app | 15:37 |
| * GeneralAntilles is a poor nooblette with very little coding experience. | 15:37 | |
| rev | ahh ok | 15:37 |
| rev | :) | 15:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just like to talk out my ass a lot. ;) | 15:37 |
| rev | don't we all? | 15:37 |
| sciboy | Nooblette, gosh that's cute. | 15:37 |
| rev | heh | 15:38 |
| pupnikU4 | rev you know that 2005-2006 switched from arm to armel, 2006 and 2007 are binary compatible tho | 15:38 |
| * sciboy adds it to his vocabulary | 15:38 | |
| sciboy | Does any of the browsers, (opera, microb, minimo) have the option to call a url from the command-line and possibly jump directly to fullscreen mode? | 15:39 |
| rev | pupnikU4: but are there any other substantial differences? dev-wise? other than not using the camera, say. | 15:40 |
| rev | sciboy: i think there's a way to do it via dbus, but i can't recall | 15:40 |
| rev | sciboy: not sure about the full-screen part, though | 15:40 |
| sciboy | rev, Well thing is I'm making a game for the n800 using javascript etc. all the toolbar options etc. are completely unnecessary and want to design for that extra screen real estate. | 15:41 |
| rev | i need to upgrade/flash my N800. i tried installing microb a while back, hosed the browser, and for the last 6 weeks or so haven't been using it nearly as much, because of the non-functioning web browser. uff. | 15:42 |
| pupnikU4 | yes some things have been changed between 2006 and 2007 but for the most part, 2006 apps seem to run on 2007 | 15:42 |
| sciboy | I still have to wait for my n800 to arrive, or even news of when it may arrive. =/ | 15:42 |
| rev | sciboy: yeah, fair enough. have you tried making a popup to ditch most of that stuff? | 15:43 |
| rev | sciboy: or, you could just write a shell containing the HTML widget from opera, microb, etc, that'd probably be easier | 15:43 |
| sciboy | rev, I recall some javascript to push for fullscreen in IE, not sure about Mozilla or Opera. | 15:43 |
| TPC | sciboy, can't you just make a simple gecko frontend that behaves like you want it? | 15:43 |
| rev | sciboy: i don't think there'll be a javascript means to push opera fullscreen, but possibly | 15:43 |
| rev | yeah, do what TPC sez | 15:44 |
| sciboy | TPC, I wouldn't have the slightest idea. | 15:44 |
| rev | the answer is yes | 15:45 |
| rev | and it's what you'd want to do | 15:45 |
| rev | :D | 15:45 |
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| sciboy | But how is my question? I'm an animator not a developer, (main reason why I've opting for javascript instead of pygame etc. more graphical) | 15:46 |
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| blkhawk[work] | lo | 15:46 |
| TPC | sciboy, maybe you should recruit a developer for your project then | 15:47 |
| rev | how is your question? i'm not sure if they're an answer | 15:47 |
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| rev | sciboy: i think that, time total spent, you could make something happen with a simpler browser shell faster than trying to go down the path you are | 15:47 |
| rev | wow, that was poorly woorded, eh? | 15:48 |
| rev | sciboy: that is, doing it the way TPC and I are talking about could be done even by someone without much coding experience, with a few pointers from folks like us in the channel, or perhaps an actual dev helper | 15:48 |
| sciboy | You think that was bad, I spent a minute puzzling over "But how is my question" speak like yoda you must. | 15:48 |
| blkhawk[work] | is that a USB post i spy on the side of the N810? | 15:48 |
| rev | especially considering that such a beast would probably be useful to other folks developing similar apps | 15:48 |
| rev | sciboy: haha :D | 15:48 |
| rev | blkhawk[work]: i hope so! | 15:49 |
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| rev | are there more photos of the 810 anywhere? i've only seen one front-wise photo at engadget | 15:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think that's all of them for the moment. | 15:49 |
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| rev | er, nevermind, they have a bunch of photos up now | 15:49 |
| rev | http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokias-n810-makes-first-appearance-drops-jaws/ | 15:50 |
| blkhawk[work] | :D | 15:50 |
| rev | or less annoying http://www.internettablettalk.com/2007/10/17/the-nokia-n810-internet-tablet/ | 15:50 |
| blkhawk[work] | well it probably will only power a usb flash stick but its cool nonntheless | 15:50 |
| sciboy | rev, I guess so, first though I need to know what resolution I'll be working with, all the content has to be actual-size in order to help performance, so what part of 800x480 is actually usable by the application? | 15:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't think that's a USB A port. | 15:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | The scale is wrong | 15:50 |
| rev | i don't think that's a USB port, not one capable of histing | 15:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Compare it to the port on the N800. | 15:51 |
| rev | i think it's the same little guy on the N800 | 15:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I thought it was A when I first looked at it, too. | 15:51 |
| rev | sciboy: well, if you actually had it full screen it'd be a full 800x480 | 15:51 |
| rev | sciboy: though you might want to have some sort of toolbar, giving you the ability to quit | 15:51 |
| pupnikU4 | engadget must be lurking here | 15:51 |
| sciboy | rev, Can the user still switch between apps if one is fullscreen? | 15:52 |
| rev | sciboy: yeah, but not as easily (e.g. there's no bar w/ icons) | 15:52 |
| TPC | [14:50:32] <blkhawk[work]> well it probably will only power a usb flash stick but its cool nonntheless | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810 | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | If anybody missed it. | 15:52 |
| TPC | would be cool if it could power a usb 3G modem | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not an A port | 15:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | So I don't think it's going to be powering much of anything. | 15:53 |
| sciboy | rev, If I can use the whole screen that'd be pretty desirable since that means I have more control over the experience. But users must have the freedom to pause, quit and switch applications. | 15:53 |
| TPC | they can just push the fullscreen button and get out of fullscreen mode | 15:54 |
| pupnikU4 | 'All your sdl keyboard problems magically wiped away... along with most of your personality.' | 15:54 |
| sciboy | rev, That reminds me, when they hit the power button, it still remains on right? Unless they go out of their way to fully power it down? | 15:54 |
| TPC | the power button brings up a menu | 15:55 |
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| pupnikU4 | dumb comment of the year goes to bunzl2000 | 15:57 |
| sciboy | Hmmm, okay well it's good to know that full 800x480 is an option. Everything else, I need to wait on my N800 to actually arrive. =| | 15:57 |
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| sciboy | Thanks | 15:59 |
| lardman | I wonder what that button on the bottom is? | 15:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | bunzl2000, pupnikU4? | 15:59 |
| lardman | i.e. in the n810_15.jpg image | 15:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I was wondering that, too, lardman. | 15:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Could be a release for the back panel. | 16:00 |
| lardman | keyboard lock perhaps | 16:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or maybe that. | 16:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, no, it can't be for the back panel. | 16:00 |
| lardman | likewise the little square above the front camera | 16:00 |
| lardman | microphone perhaps | 16:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's staying pretty much the same as tho N800 according to the engandget prototype photos. | 16:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Looks like an LED to me. | 16:00 |
| lardman | all we need now are some technical specs | 16:01 |
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| ttuttle | Hey. | 16:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, lardman. | 16:02 |
| * GeneralAntilles crosses fingers for OMAP 34xx | 16:02 | |
| lardman | :) | 16:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully we get our hands on a copy of Chinook for the N800 soon. | 16:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lardman: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=83050&postcount=48 | 16:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Makes sense | 16:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | I remember it being mentioned in the Chinook changes. | 16:06 |
| sciboy | Chinook? | 16:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | OS2008 | 16:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo 4.0 | 16:07 |
| czr | lardman, it's the panic switch | 16:07 |
| czr | switching it will cause the device to explode within 20 seconds. | 16:07 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: cool | 16:07 |
| sciboy | Cool, is that due out in the near future? | 16:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno | 16:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll be on the N810 whenever it comes out | 16:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't know how soon the N800 version will be out. | 16:08 |
| Jaffa | http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/n810_01_low.jpg has nice new status bar icons | 16:09 |
| sciboy | Why wouldn't it be out at a similar time? Considering how similar the hardware is. | 16:09 |
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| sciboy | Wow that thing looks smexy. | 16:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | It probably will be, but not sure when | 16:09 |
| Jaffa | Keyboard looks a little cramped for desktop typing (compared with a Psion, of course) | 16:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | It is a mobile device. ;) | 16:11 |
| pupnikU4 | wait for the magical tardis keyboard tech that shrinks your hands when they get near the device | 16:11 |
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| czr | pupnikU4, does it come with untardising as well? | 16:12 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: so was the revo, it still had a decent-enough keyboard, and as for the Series 5... | 16:12 |
| keesj | the 5 finger keyboard? | 16:12 |
| bergie | Jaffa: yeah... I'd love a bit better keyboard but other than that it looks quite nice | 16:12 |
| pupnikU4 | Clamshell designs aren't 'in' now. Too bad for us techies | 16:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha, if I wanted a laptop, I'd buy a laptop. :P | 16:12 |
| pupnikU4 | a psion 5mx wasn't a laptop | 16:13 |
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| pupnikU4 | the reason clamshells aren't built is cause they're not 'sexy' | 16:13 |
| Jaffa | I like the industrial design of the N810 - looks smooth. Better than the horrible grill on the N800 IMHO | 16:14 |
| pupnikU4 | i think it looks beautiful | 16:14 |
| pupnikU4 | compare to asian products... | 16:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can I use that Psion with the keyboard out of the way? | 16:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | The 770 looks great, the N800 looks great, and the N810 looks great. | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe I'm just hard to please. | 16:15 |
| keesj | it does not look like it contains a gprs modem | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's what a cellphone is for. | 16:15 |
| lardman | how can you tell? | 16:15 |
| lardman | or have you seen the schematics....? :) | 16:15 |
| keesj | no dialing in the pics | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha. | 16:15 |
| lardman | Well I hope it doesn't come with maps of Washington, not much use to me | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia would have to do a lot of work to keep the network safe from those dangerous Linux hackers. | 16:16 |
| keesj | hah | 16:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | I, for one, hope the IT series products never come with cellular radios. | 16:16 |
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| czr | I for one hope they'd invent a better name than IT | 16:16 |
| Jaffa | who | 16:16 |
| Jaffa | #6/ | 16:16 |
| Jaffa | bah | 16:16 |
| czr | whoever decides the names :-) | 16:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Weberator | 16:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | that's my pick. | 16:17 |
| pupnikU4 | haha | 16:17 |
| pcfe | if you look at the likes of openmoko you will learn that devices that do come with a phone part are just a black box on usb you can not hack | 16:17 |
| pcfe | you just tell the black box you want to dial and it feeds you back audio | 16:17 |
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| pcfe | not that I think the ITs should have a phone bit, but they could very well have one and still be cool with all the regulatory bodies | 16:18 |
| pupnikU4 | the faceplate is a nice texture/color too - gives an iconic look | 16:19 |
| Jaffa | Yeah - anything better than the sieve-like chrome of the N800. | 16:20 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wants specs. >_> | 16:21 | |
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| Jaffa | If it were smaller and lighter than the N800, and there was signs of movement towards a fantastically usable UI and powerful built-in apps, I'd seriously consider it. | 16:24 |
| lardman | They keyboard is enough for me | 16:24 |
| Jaffa | Save gadget bag room by losing the BT keyboard :) | 16:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Specs, specs, specs. | 16:25 |
| Jaffa | lardman: it would be for me, if I did more data input. I dunno if I don't do much data input because of the lack of the keyboard, or the lack of the software. | 16:25 |
| lardman | Jaffa: I'd be more tempted to try Python on the go with a keyboard | 16:26 |
| lardman | Jaffa: Would make it more useful for spreadsheets too | 16:26 |
| Jaffa | agreed | 16:27 |
| ttuttle | The N800 is ugly. | 16:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ lies. | 16:27 |
| Jaffa | ITT still working for everyone? Or has it been /.ed? | 16:28 |
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| disq | no jogdial. bastards. | 16:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's getting pounded. | 16:28 |
| disq | yep | 16:28 |
| lardman | how do I work out the framebuffer size programmatically? | 16:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | engadget, slashdot and digg. | 16:28 |
| * lardman goes off topic here | 16:28 | |
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| ttuttle | The N800 is ugly. (Sorry if this is a dupe, I was lagged.) | 16:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ^ repeated lies. :P | 16:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | also: *YOU think the N800 is ugly. :P | 16:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | I, personally, think it looks quite nice. | 16:30 |
| keesj | lardman: for a standard framebuffer there are ioctl call | 16:31 |
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| lardman | keesj: I found some code, thanks | 16:32 |
| Jaffa | Ouch. ITT is 404ing now. | 16:33 |
| disq | me want developer device program. i doubt they'll do it again for the n810 tho since n800 will also run chinook | 16:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Man, itt went down fast. | 16:34 |
| Tak|770 | how do I see a process's memory usage on the device? | 16:36 |
| Jaffa | disq: agreed :) | 16:36 |
| disq | ossostatusbarcpu or you could run top and hit shift-m (for a "M") to sort by memory usage | 16:37 |
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| HGFB | According to the Jaiku blog it's getting hammered by big tech sites http://jaiku.com/channel/itT | 16:37 |
| Tak|770 | aha, /shift/ m! | 16:37 |
| Tak|770 | heh, osso-xterm doesn't even register | 16:39 |
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| Jaffa | Hmm, never seen Jaiku before. It seems to be an IRC/Facebook status/Twitter/shoutbox/chatroom thing. | 16:40 |
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| lardman | hmm, looking at the dsp framebuffer demo code, neither the dsp nor the arm seem to signal anyone to actually write the data to the screen | 16:42 |
| lardman | I'd have expected some sort of ioctl | 16:42 |
| Tak|770 | so xchat uses about 8m, and irssi uses about 4m, not counting the mem for osso-xterm, which I couldn't get | 16:44 |
| keesj | no mem map memset stuff? | 16:45 |
| lardman | on the arm side an fbinfo struct is create and passed to the dsp side | 16:46 |
| lardman | but it's just a struct, no attempts to do anything with it | 16:46 |
| lardman | unless this all happens in the background on the dsp | 16:46 |
| lardman | no idea how it's supposed to be triggered though | 16:46 |
| * lardman continues reading | 16:47 | |
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| lardman | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/framebuffer_test/existing/ take a look at tell me if I'm missing something obvious | 16:53 |
| czr | anyone using the vmware images for development? | 16:54 |
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| * pupnikU4 tries to follow lardman | 17:00 | |
| czr | Tak|770, what are you using to measure memory usage? | 17:01 |
| Tak|770 | just top | 17:01 |
| pupnikU4 | lardman: what is native framebuffer format? rgb565? | 17:01 |
| czr | which field? | 17:01 |
| Tak|770 | looking at the mem field and the res field | 17:02 |
| czr | Tak|770, http://koltsoff.com/pub/ures , just FYI. measuring memory usage is not very simple always | 17:02 |
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| czr | and the kernel on the device doesn't have smaps AFAIK so that's as good as it's going to get. also xrestop should be used (not 100% sure about the tool name now though) | 17:03 |
| lardman | pupnikU4: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/vo_nokia770.c?root=mplayer&view=markup | 17:03 |
| pupnikU4 | ty | 17:03 |
| pupnikU4 | Nokia 770 LCD controller [1] natively supports RGB565 and two packed YUV formats | 17:04 |
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| pupnikU4 | so the packed yuv format means less bandwidth needed for screen updates? (assuming the stuff to be drawn is in that fmt)? | 17:04 |
| lardman | I suppose so, if you read on a little that's also the general codec output format | 17:05 |
| pupnikU4 | i guess the main use is for video | 17:05 |
| pupnikU4 | so you don't need to do yuv-rgb | 17:05 |
| pupnikU4 | hmm | 17:05 |
| lardman | yeah, though the format is not quite the same - needs conversion | 17:05 |
| Tak|770 | czr: 1) yes, I'm aware of this; I just wanted a quick measure 2) the device doesn't have very sophisticated memory metric tools on board | 17:06 |
| czr | Tak|770, indeed. good :-) | 17:06 |
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| * lardman realises he's a muppet - need to use dspctl with the framebuffer code | 17:08 | |
| * pupnikU4 plays the muppet theme song | 17:09 | |
| * czr plays the swedish cook part | 17:09 | |
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| penguinbait | http://www.internettablettalk.com/ just pooped | 17:10 |
| penguinbait | didnt last long | 17:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's been in and out since 9:30 | 17:11 |
| disq | yep | 17:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | (EDT) | 17:11 |
| penguinbait | I have been good until just now | 17:11 |
| penguinbait | oh, yup its back | 17:11 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 17:11 |
| * Tak|770 dibs on Beeker | 17:11 | |
| penguinbait | is there an sale date yet | 17:12 |
| penguinbait | or cpu/mem specs anywhere | 17:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nope, nor specs. | 17:12 |
| penguinbait | doh | 17:12 |
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| penguinbait | oh well, back to KDE. I can't wait to see how it runs on new hardware | 17:13 |
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| pupnikU4 | looking to bump the digg story - not finding it | 17:14 |
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| lardman | pupnikU4: Although that sorts out mapping the framebuffer, i still can't see where it's updated | 17:14 |
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| pupnikU4 | do you mean the n770_x11_init()? that's just to prevent X from drawing afaik | 17:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | pupnikU4: search for N810 | 17:16 |
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| lardman | pupnikU4: no, in the dsp code - url earlier | 17:16 |
| pupnikU4 | oh | 17:16 |
| penguinbait | http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810# | 17:16 |
| penguinbait | lots of nice pics | 17:16 |
| penguinbait | not sure I like the camera staring at me all the time | 17:17 |
| penguinbait | feels like nokia is watching me | 17:17 |
| czr | would it help to know that nokia is watching you already? | 17:17 |
| penguinbait | just a little parnoid maybe | 17:17 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 17:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha, Nokia is going to hax ur interwebz and post pictures of your ugly mug all over the world. :P | 17:17 |
| ttuttle | lol | 17:17 |
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| penguinbait | I'm not that ugly | 17:18 |
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| penguinbait | hehe | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | :P | 17:18 |
| lopz | hola | 17:18 |
| penguinbait | besides they cant see crap on that n800 camera | 17:19 |
| czr | penguinbait, that's why they have the other cameras | 17:19 |
| penguinbait | in one of the little holes pretending to be a speaker perhaps | 17:19 |
| penguinbait | or behind the touchscreen? | 17:19 |
| czr | err, in your cupboards, your TV and windows | 17:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | showerhead, too. | 17:20 |
| czr | GeneralAntilles, sshh. | 17:20 |
| penguinbait | no, thats the government | 17:20 |
| czr | penguinbait, who says that Nokia isn't one? | 17:20 |
| penguinbait | Although I have personal experience with nokia repair, and that may be governmant run | 17:21 |
| penguinbait | it would explain alot | 17:21 |
| * czr nods | 17:21 | |
| czr | I could tell more, but I'd have to.. file two requests for acquisitions, file three reports, ask my supervisors, etc.. | 17:21 |
| penguinbait | no prob, dont go out of your way | 17:22 |
| penguinbait | I am sure I am a security rick | 17:22 |
| penguinbait | I am sure I am a security risk | 17:22 |
| czr | heh. not to worry :-) | 17:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Security Rick! | 17:22 |
| * GeneralAntilles plays the action music. | 17:22 | |
| czr | as long as you're entertaining, no one will mind :-) | 17:22 |
| penguinbait | you know Security Rick, he worked at my lask job | 17:23 |
| penguinbait | might have been with a D though? | 17:23 |
| czr | I thought that was Security Bob | 17:23 |
| penguinbait | s/R/D | 17:23 |
| czr | the one who is married to Security Alice. | 17:24 |
| czr | hmm. anyone running Xephyr over ssh? | 17:25 |
| czr | so that the stuff in the SDK will connect to a xephyr on another host? (doesn't have to be ssh though) | 17:25 |
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| pupnikU4 | speakers are on the sides | 17:28 |
| pupnikU4 | does anyone recognize the dpad from another product? i want to know if it's a high-resistance click-type (like the 770/N800) or a low-resistance non-click dpad | 17:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody have a guess when the specs might be announced? | 17:31 |
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| disq | milhouse: really great comments on itt. about the graduate intern and all | 17:33 |
| pupnikU4 | Oct 23 will be some kind of announcement i think | 17:34 |
| |R | ok what the FUCK.... can someone explain this: i fucked up my latest OS 2007 install by doing rm -rf bin in the wrong folder.... i reflashed, then microB when installed was screwed up on tableteer's page which it wasnt before... then i reflashed again because removing microB killed the whole browser... and now i see preferences from the original INSTALLATION! | 17:35 |
| * |R really has a bad day :| | 17:35 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I hope we don't get left with pics without specs for the next 6 days. | 17:35 |
| pcfe | you restored backup it would seem | 17:35 |
| ab | http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810 | 17:36 |
| pupnikU4 | i am guessing lardman's guess is right :) | 17:36 |
| |R | pcfe : uhm yes but that didn't do it the first flashing, but you're right, weird! | 17:36 |
| |R | i get very inconsistent results... maybe i should sleep ;) | 17:36 |
| Jaffa | disq: soon milhouse'll get a texratting for being too negative. Interesting that ragnar said it's as thick as the non-bumpy bit of the N800. That'd be very impressive. | 17:36 |
| pcfe | yes, if the results are inconsistent you should close all root shells, open a beer and relax | 17:36 |
| |R | hehe :) | 17:36 |
| |R | i had everything fixed and screwed up big time, argh... :/ | 17:37 |
| Daniellion | http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/about.html | 17:37 |
| Daniellion | wonder if that would work on the tablets too | 17:37 |
| Daniellion | :) | 17:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | It does | 17:37 |
| Daniellion | be on your desktop then use your mouse over to the 770 800 | 17:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | but it's a pain to get the pointer turned on and visible. | 17:37 |
| |R | there is a quicksynergy package | 17:37 |
| Daniellion | Ahh | 17:37 |
| Daniellion | im still haveing issues getting it to autostart iin osx | 17:37 |
| Daniellion | sigh they should just make a pkg | 17:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Teleport is better for OSX to OSX | 17:38 |
| pupnikU4 | synergy? | 17:38 |
| _Monkey | synergy is mouse and keyboard sharing between computer and tablet: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/synergy2/ https://garage.maemo.org/projects/unique311/ and for 770 http://pupnik.de/synergy-maemo_1.3.1-1_armel.deb | 17:38 |
| Daniellion | very sweet | 17:38 |
| Veggen | who is running Monkey, btw? | 17:39 |
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| Veggen | it's sort of annoying at times. It'd be much better if you had to ask it explicitly, not? | 17:39 |
| pupnikU4 | looking at n810 it appears a bit smaller than 770, and maybe 1.4 times as thick | 17:39 |
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| zoran | keyboard should make it ticker | 17:40 |
| pupnikU4 | about 90% of its responses are not useful | 17:40 |
| Daniellion | hmmm your refering to the leaked screenshot? | 17:41 |
| pupnikU4 | shots | 17:41 |
| zoran | small keys could me worse than on the screen board | 17:42 |
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| pupnikU4 | it appears to have the on screen keyboard also! | 17:42 |
| zoran | my fingers are ticker then pen pick | 17:43 |
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| zoran | wimax? | 17:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lets hope not. | 17:44 |
| zoran | nokia has to sell; they need new device | 17:45 |
| Sho_ | Anyone know yet if the N810 has a faster CPU than the N800? | 17:46 |
| penguinbait | god I hope so | 17:46 |
| zoran | and a battery capable to handle that | 17:46 |
| TPC | I really hope it doesn't | 17:46 |
| penguinbait | you hope its not faster | 17:47 |
| penguinbait | huh | 17:47 |
| TPC | if it doesn't then I can be happy with my N800 and a bluetooth keyboard | 17:47 |
| zoran | me too | 17:47 |
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| penguinbait | you can be happy regardless | 17:47 |
| penguinbait | thtas silly | 17:47 |
| TPC | its better for my wallet that way | 17:47 |
| TPC | because otherwise I'll have to get it :P | 17:47 |
| disq | i don't think they upgraded the cpu | 17:47 |
| ch4os_ | what types of audio streams i can listen on standard maemo audio player? | 17:47 |
| penguinbait | you can always skip a tablet, a new one will be out in a year ;) | 17:47 |
| Sho_ | Well, actually I hope it doesn't have a faster CPU too ... I have an N800, and while I can do without the keyboard, I'd be jealous of a faster CPU =) | 17:47 |
| disq | chinook will run faster on the n800 anyway | 17:48 |
| disq | faster than bora i mean | 17:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I really hope we get an OMAP 34xx in there. | 17:48 |
| zoran | graphical apps surely | 17:48 |
| TPC | disq, oh? | 17:48 |
| penguinbait | I want KDE to run faster, who cares about chinook | 17:48 |
| disq | they're constantly optimizing the code | 17:48 |
| pcfe | disq: aha? any more details on that? | 17:48 |
| zoran | kde is bloated | 17:49 |
| penguinbait | so I am, but I work well | 17:49 |
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| zoran | :) | 17:49 |
| TPC | kde isn't that bad | 17:49 |
| disq | no details. if you try/run sardine, you see the difference. that's all | 17:49 |
| TPC | if you don't install every little tool there is | 17:49 |
| penguinbait | I love fish in KDE | 17:49 |
| TPC | and disable graphical effects and things like that | 17:49 |
| penguinbait | konqueor is awesome | 17:49 |
| TPC | it can run at a reasonable speed on a slow machine | 17:50 |
| TPC | my sister used it as her desktop environment on a P233 this spring | 17:50 |
| TPC | ran nicely | 17:50 |
| zoran | just wondow manager works wven faster | 17:50 |
| zoran | *window | 17:50 |
| TPC | of course 1.5 years ago kde was horrible, had so many memory leaks | 17:50 |
| TPC | but they have fixed those now, went trought all of it with valgrind | 17:50 |
| * Sho_ notes that the KDE project originally hosted the Valgrind project | 17:50 | |
| penguinbait | I can print from the browser, I can print pdf, picture, docs | 17:51 |
| penguinbait | I have a real computer | 17:51 |
| zoran | this new gadget is not targeting fols on this list, I think | 17:51 |
| TPC | penguinbait, print to pdf isn't really among kde's high points | 17:51 |
| penguinbait | its faster that my toshiba libretto 166mmx | 17:51 |
| TPC | the resulting file looks uglier and is larger file size than it is by creating the pdf with other methods | 17:51 |
| penguinbait | print pdf to printer | 17:51 |
| penguinbait | printing period | 17:52 |
| pupnikU4 | heh | 17:52 |
| TPC | I mean even dumping a screenshot of the document to a tiff file and using tiff2pdf produces better result than kdes print to pdf | 17:52 |
| pupnikU4 | printing = can o' worms, but it'd be nice | 17:52 |
| penguinbait | it already is nice | 17:53 |
| pupnikU4 | btw how is printing on the iphone? | 17:53 |
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| pcfe | both my PalmOS device and my S60r3 phone can print. Apart form 2 or 3 printouts on each device to see it works and show someone it works, I have never needed this | 18:00 |
| pcfe | then again I have a deep aversion against putting stuff on dead trees. | 18:01 |
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| zoran | used camera on n800? | 18:01 |
| pcfe | searching on dead trees is just too much of a pita | 18:01 |
| pcfe | same, once to see it works when I got it and twicce when testing video calling with another N800 user | 18:02 |
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| zoran | I found one post that was excited about gps on n810 | 18:03 |
| Veggen | pcfe: If I'm gonna do a lot of reading, I prefer dead trees. | 18:04 |
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| pcfe | zoran: Oh GPS I use a lot, just an external one ATM | 18:06 |
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| pcfe | if N810 indeed has GPS, the big question will be what chipset they used, crappy one like in N95 or decent onle like Sirf III or better | 18:06 |
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| pcfe | Veggen: yes, I understand some people want to have dead trees. Fair enough. I used to print for the convenience of carriying the reading material to places my computer would not go, but with N800 and a 12" notebook I've stopped doing that | 18:08 |
| zoran | maybe people like thing more modular, not all in one? | 18:08 |
| pcfe | zoran: look at N95, seems most non-geek users want as many features as possible into one device. That thing sells like hot cupcakes | 18:08 |
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| pcfe | and Nokia will quite obviously giove the market what it wants, they need to make revenue | 18:09 |
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| TPC | pcfe, or better? whats better than Sirf III? | 18:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The MTK chipset in the i-blues | 18:12 |
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| TPC | interesting | 18:14 |
| pupnikafk | yet another way 770/ n800 saves the environment | 18:15 |
| lardman | do you think those photos were released by accident? | 18:16 |
| lardman | Or are Nokia just trying to build us into a frenzy by not producing a press release with technical details, etc.? | 18:16 |
| pcfe | TPC: not sure, last time I looked deeply into GPS chipsets was about a year ago when I got my GPSlim 236 have not looked deeply since, so the 'or better' was just in case something better came out in th elast year | 18:17 |
| alterego | Probably no developer program for this device .. | 18:17 |
| alterego | ffs, osso has broken :( | 18:17 |
| lardman | alterego: what makes you say that? | 18:17 |
| alterego | I can't seem to get my bindings working. | 18:17 |
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| pcfe | lardman: well, is Nokia some small shop that does a product release for the first time, or a big multinational that dominates a big part of the market? ;-) | 18:18 |
| zoran | to me it looks that apple made them run faster | 18:19 |
| pupnikafk | the keyboard will make it a much better general purpose linux machine | 18:20 |
| zoran | if you could find the keys | 18:20 |
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| pupnikafk | see blackberrys and zaurus for similar sized keys | 18:22 |
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| * alterego hits head. | 18:22 | |
| alterego | Forgot run-standalone.sh :) | 18:23 |
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| zoran | pupnikafk, I just try to find reason not to spend the money and buy | 18:24 |
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| snowmoon | http://internettablettalk.wordpress.com/ | 18:31 |
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| Jaffa | snowmoon: heh | 18:36 |
| snowmoon | c'mon... where are the specs? | 18:37 |
| Jaffa | Release date & price, too. | 18:37 |
| Jaffa | Release date especially important for IT OS 2008 for our N800s | 18:37 |
| Veggen | I'm looking forward to IT OS 2008..(or whatever it is, I hope it comes before christmas ;) | 18:38 |
| zoran | just if specs are close enough | 18:39 |
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| lardman | if one writes to the framebuffer, are the updates propogated eventually (i.e. is there some timeout) if you don;t explicitly use the ioctl to update it>] | 18:41 |
| lardman | s/>]/?/ | 18:41 |
| infobot | lardman meant: if one writes to the framebuffer, are the updates propogated eventually (i.e. is there some timeout) if you don;t explicitly use the ioctl to update it? | 18:41 |
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| nad_ | Is it possible to boot an N800 an not start X11? | 19:02 |
| zoran | if you have ssh | 19:03 |
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| zoran | nad_ interesting option would be to start x (for keyboadr) and small manager like evilwm | 19:06 |
| nad_ | zoran: I just want to run some tests on the framebuffer, I don't want X around... | 19:06 |
| zoran | ah, yes; you must to have hands on it; ssh | 19:07 |
| Tak | heh - will there be an OS2008HE for the 770? | 19:08 |
| HGFB | The specs are here | 19:08 |
| HGFB | http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html | 19:08 |
| HGFB | Someone just posted them on Tabletblog | 19:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ugh | 19:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not much of an upgrade. | 19:09 |
| nad_ | zoran: sorry I don't understand what you mean by " you must to have hands on it" | 19:09 |
| zoran | Tak, lemme chack on my box | 19:09 |
| zoran | sorry, nad_ | 19:09 |
| Tak | moo? | 19:09 |
| snowmoon | that can't be right... 2gb SD support? | 19:10 |
| Tak | hmm, specs for the N810 aren't much better than N800 | 19:10 |
| snowmoon | nm | 19:10 |
| Tak | although hopefully they fixed some of the cockups with, e.g., video bandwidth | 19:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, no buy for me. | 19:11 |
| snowmoon | It's the 800 with GPS and thumboard | 19:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want me OMAP 34xx | 19:11 |
| zoran | nad_, looks like you could rename some links in /etc/rc2.d not to have x up | 19:11 |
| alterego | Yes | 19:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, at least we'll get Chinook soon enough. | 19:11 |
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| alterego | It says 2008, so I guess it wont be till after christmas. | 19:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Operating system updates available over the Internet" | 19:11 |
| Jiten_ | well, the only thing I like about the new one is GPS ... that was what I was left wanting when I bought my n800 a couple weeks ago. | 19:11 |
| zoran | nad_, after that, be sure to have ssh connection to the box | 19:12 |
| alterego | They've dumped Opera .. | 19:12 |
| Jiten_ | though, the keyboard might be useful. Depends a bit on what it's like to use. | 19:12 |
| Daniellion | like the specs.. and internal gps rocks | 19:13 |
| snowmoon | It's thinner than the 800 but longer and wider ( WTF? ) | 19:13 |
| nad_ | zorane: hmm, right now I ssh over wireless, but it looks like the wireless is started from within X... Do I need a serial console, or there is some other way? | 19:13 |
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| zoran | nad_, do you have wi-fi net at home? | 19:14 |
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| alterego | nad_, you can use iwconfig et all. | 19:14 |
| HGFB | It'd be a shame if we couldn't get them for months | 19:14 |
| snowmoon | lame upgrade... I suppose that's why it's the 810 and not the 900 | 19:14 |
| alterego | Well, they wouldn't call it OS2008 if they were releasing it in 2007 would they :P | 19:14 |
| snowmoon | My only hope is that it will push down the price on the n800 further | 19:15 |
| nad_ | zoran: I do | 19:15 |
| HGFB | If we can't buy it until next year that's actually frustrating. I'd rather they'd have held back until they were ready to ship. Didn't they announce the N800 the day they went on sale? | 19:15 |
| Tak | alterego: I hope that means significant improvement in the gecko backends | 19:16 |
| alterego | As much as I'd love the new device. I think I'll just wait for the N900 or my N800 to break | 19:16 |
| Daniellion | see i kinda want somthing that is inbetween the 800 and a laptop | 19:16 |
| Daniellion | none of the umpc's ahve both camera and keyboad it seems | 19:16 |
| Daniellion | i cant find one that is a good combo of both for less then 1500 | 19:16 |
| HGFB | I notice they say the browser is Mozilla based | 19:16 |
| alterego | Tak, indeed. | 19:16 |
| HGFB | Opera dropped? | 19:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | h.264 is on the supported video formats list | 19:16 |
| Veggen | alterego: I don't think N810 is different enough for me either. As long as it's similar enough that the OS stays compatible. | 19:16 |
| HGFB | Is an N800 fast enough for h.264 in the default player? | 19:16 |
| snowmoon | engadget is reporting more ram... shipping in nov for $479 | 19:17 |
| HGFB | With the video bottleneck | 19:17 |
| lardman | did I miss something? | 19:17 |
| nad_ | alterego: where is iwconfig, I can't seem to find it.. | 19:17 |
| alterego | nad_, you have to install it. | 19:17 |
| alterego | wireless-tools or whatever the package is called. | 19:17 |
| zoran | nad_, openssh installed? | 19:17 |
| nad_ | zoran: yep | 19:17 |
| Tak | oh, yeah - is everybody else seeing the unupgradable openssh upgrade packages? | 19:17 |
| alterego | Yeah, it says "maximum of 2Gb internal memory" .. | 19:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll run 16GB SDHC | 19:18 |
| Daniellion | now if they put kde on it from the get go | 19:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guaranteed. | 19:18 |
| zoran | nad_, if you could connect from desktop, you are up | 19:18 |
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| alterego | KDE sucks donkey dicks. | 19:18 |
| alterego | Want KDE? Get a Zaurus .. | 19:19 |
| Daniellion | hell id want osx on it | 19:19 |
| Daniellion | ehhe | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777246 | 19:19 |
| alterego | You're a sad boy. | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Looks like an extra button on top. | 19:19 |
| Daniellion | was thinkign if i coud hack a umpc with the osx86 | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Looks like the stylus is up above the right speaker | 19:19 |
| Daniellion | drivers would prolly be hell though | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Samsung is what you want for that. | 19:20 |
| nad_ | zoran: I can, but I was worried that if X is not up, the wireless will not start... I just installed wireless-tools. I'll try to see if I can make it work with iwconfig... | 19:20 |
| lardman | where are these hw specs coming from? | 19:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Evidently it works ok. | 19:20 |
| Daniellion | could be a desk lock latch | 19:20 |
| * Tak agree with alterego and make alterego his official spokesperson | 19:20 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia. | 19:20 |
| _Monkey | somebody said nokia was a company. It also sponsors maemo using sales of N800s. Buy one. Buy two! | 19:20 |
| [31d1] | hmm, iphone SDK | 19:20 |
| zoran | nad_, on my 770 ssh starts from separate soft link in rc2.d | 19:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Look at the domain, lardman. | 19:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777236 | 19:21 |
| Daniellion | please elaborate GeneralAntilles | 19:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | On the Samsung? | 19:21 |
| alterego | [31d1], you mean Safari? | 19:21 |
| ||cw | n800 has 128MB ram right? | 19:21 |
| SDP | alterego: I noticed that too... mozilla based browser. interesting. | 19:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Retail package that looks ready to go | 19:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Might be released sooner than you think. | 19:22 |
| snowmoon | http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ | 19:22 |
| [31d1] | http://www.apple.com/hotnews/ | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm really disappointed by the lack of a specs upgrade, though. :( | 19:22 |
| alterego | SDP, not very interesting to me until they start shipping libxul .. | 19:22 |
| disq | off topic: anybody have a solution to use mc on putty with utf8, with the line drawing characters? LANG=C is not a good idea as it disables utf8 input in mc | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | November | 19:23 |
| alterego | Anyhow, I doubt they'll do a dev program for this device. | 19:23 |
| alterego | As it's really just an N800 with a couple of mods. | 19:23 |
| lardman | so there's still no official spec announcment then? | 19:23 |
| alterego | There's not benifit to developers, (except maybe for the GPS) | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too bad. | 19:24 |
| alterego | In fact, it wouldn't suprise me if Nokia stop the developer program completely now. | 19:24 |
| * GeneralAntilles slaps lardman with a link: http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html | 19:24 | |
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| lardman | GeneralAntilles: Thanks, not sure where I was supposed to see that though... | 19:25 |
| disq | http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777248 | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scroll up. ;) | 19:25 |
| disq | ah. yeah | 19:25 |
| lardman | I've just joined, at home | 19:25 |
| zoran | maps included | 19:25 |
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| disq | one SD slot? | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was sent after you joined. :P | 19:25 |
| disq | though makes sense with the bumped up internal mem | 19:26 |
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| alterego | The themes are getting worse .. | 19:26 |
| zoran | 2 slots | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Who cares about the themes? | 19:26 |
| disq | 2gig could mean they're not using jffs2 anymore | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | The 3rd-party stuff is so much better, anyway. | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hooray for Plankton! | 19:26 |
| disq | as jffs2 is slow | 19:26 |
| zoran | inside card | 19:26 |
| zoran | outside could be 8 Gb | 19:26 |
| nad_ | zoran: ssh needs the network layer to be up, and I don't know if it is started without X11 (it seemed to me that it is started by the wireless applet). I am still investigating how can I start it with the iw* tools | 19:27 |
| zoran | probably vfat | 19:27 |
| alterego | 3rd party themes? | 19:27 |
| shapr | Yay N810! | 19:27 |
| alterego | I've seen a couple and they were boring. | 19:27 |
| zoran | nad_, don't rush! | 19:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seen Plankton? | 19:27 |
| _Monkey | I haven't seen 'Plankton', GeneralAntilles | 19:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | >_> | 19:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | He needs a trigger | 19:27 |
| disq | "3.5 mm stereo headphone plug (Nokia AV Connector)" "AV"? hmmmm | 19:27 |
| zoran | just send a mail to maemo-users | 19:27 |
| disq | "V"! :) | 19:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Boo! No specs bump, shapr. ;) | 19:27 |
| shapr | Wah? | 19:27 |
| Jaffa | disq: I noticed that too | 19:28 |
| shapr | It's a bit faster. | 19:28 |
| zoran | nad_, do you ahve a min for me to fire up the device? | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | 80MHz | 19:28 |
| shapr | What's up with the "up to 2GB internal memory" ? | 19:28 |
| alterego | disq, that is on the N800 too. | 19:28 |
| nad_ | zoran: sure, thanks! | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | what, what? n810 is announced already and I didn't notice??? | 19:28 |
| alterego | Regardless, the N810 looks really nasty .. | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bullshit | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | It looks great. | 19:28 |
| shapr | Looks like the webcam only faces forward. | 19:28 |
| shapr | I'll get it for the internal GPS. | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html | 19:29 |
| snowmoon | compared to the bulge... the 810 is slicker | 19:29 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles, we've already discovered your bad taste in aesthetics :P | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | By what, Plankton? | 19:29 |
| disq | 80mhz bump, plus the filesystem could be ext2/ext3/reiserfs now, using jffs2 is a waste of cpu when you have the space | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | You're kidding, right? | 19:29 |
| shapr | ooh, ambient light sensor.. is that just the camera? | 19:29 |
| alterego | The speakers are on the back. | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fan of Vista then, right? | 19:29 |
| snowmoon | 70mhz... 330->400 ( last I checked that's 70 ) | 19:29 |
| alterego | O_o | 19:29 |
| * GeneralAntilles is bad at math. | 19:29 | |
| alterego | snowmoon, it's exactly the same chip as in the N800. | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Speakers are on the side. | 19:29 |
| shapr | Oh, it switched to a Mozilla browser? No more Opera? | 19:30 |
| alterego | Back side. | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | no N810 article on wikipedia yet | 19:30 |
| disq | snowmoon: 320.37 bogomips is probably 320mhz and not 330? | 19:30 |
| zoran | nad_, first is fb-progress.sh | 19:30 |
| snowmoon | disq: bongomips ~= mhz in any way shape or form | 19:30 |
| snowmoon | != | 19:30 |
| zoran | then ppp | 19:30 |
| zoran | then dnsmasq | 19:30 |
| zoran | dbus and ssh | 19:31 |
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| disq | in intel that is. | 19:31 |
| zoran | lmce, x server next | 19:31 |
| zoran | af-services | 19:31 |
| shapr | disq: Does the AV connector mean the plug does microphone in as well? | 19:31 |
| disq | the plug always did microphone | 19:31 |
| shapr | oh | 19:31 |
| shapr | Even on the 770? | 19:32 |
| disq | not on the 770 | 19:32 |
| zoran | dsp-init, bluez,bme-proxy,osso-hss | 19:32 |
| shapr | Ok, I only have a 770. | 19:32 |
| alterego | shapr, yes. Exactly like the N800. | 19:32 |
| zoran | esd, osso-systemui | 19:32 |
| shapr | Was planning to buy an N800 next month, but I'll get an N810 instead. | 19:32 |
| * mgedmin wants more pics | 19:32 | |
| zoran | btcond | 19:32 |
| zoran | ke-recv, wlancond | 19:32 |
| shapr | hiya mgedmin | 19:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | shapr, at $230 versus $480? | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | hi shapr | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | what, $480 | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | that's robbery! | 19:33 |
| shapr | GeneralAntilles: Where can you get an N800 for $230? | 19:33 |
| snowmoon | MSRP $479 | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | good think USD is down right now | 19:33 |
| snowmoon | shapr: buy.com | 19:33 |
| lardman | Interesting that the Ti website has no mention of an omap 2420 clocked at 400MHz | 19:33 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that buy.com is awesome because they ship free and dont charge tax a lot of places | 19:33 |
| shapr | In that case... N800 it is. | 19:33 |
| zoran | nad_, what do you think about? | 19:33 |
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| zoran | safe enough? | 19:34 |
| alterego | lardman, if you looked at the docs in more detail you'd see it. | 19:34 |
| alterego | It's carefully hidden away. | 19:34 |
| mgedmin | $480 ~= $340 EUR --> more or less what I paid for my fist 770 | 19:34 |
| nad_ | zoran: still looking | 19:34 |
| alterego | I imagine this means that Chinook has got better PM. | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin: http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810 | 19:34 |
| mgedmin | thanks, general! | 19:34 |
| lardman | alterego: indeed, on the first page of the pdf, my mistake | 19:35 |
| alterego | :) | 19:35 |
| HGFB | I'm in the UK. I wonder when I'll be able to buy one | 19:35 |
| alterego | Anyhow, enough of this gibber gabber. | 19:35 |
| * lardman was worried it was a 2430, with no DSP | 19:35 | |
| * alterego gets back to work. | 19:35 | |
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| mgedmin | hm, the top is not visible in those pictures | 19:39 |
| mgedmin | what do the zoom keys look like? | 19:39 |
| disq | yeah maybe it's butt ugly | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://internettablettalk.wordpress.com/ | 19:39 |
| shapr | I wonder that also. | 19:40 |
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| snowmoon | http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777244 wtf is that connector... it's not standard USB | 19:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/ | 19:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Micro-usb | 19:40 |
| lardman | no a2dp listed on the supported bluetooth profile list | 19:40 |
| shapr | It looks like that's a button on the top left front corner. | 19:40 |
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| zoran | battery could be weaker for all those parts | 19:41 |
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| shapr | lardman: Yeah, that's slightly worrisome. | 19:41 |
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| shapr | Yeah, wtf is that usb connector? | 19:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | micro-usb | 19:42 |
| snowmoon | If it's micro, how come it looks bigger than mini-usb | 19:43 |
| HGFB | looks like we've lost a memory card slot too | 19:43 |
| shapr | It's kinda weird to have the d-pad on the slide-in keyboard. | 19:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | I didn't name the spec. >_> | 19:43 |
| snowmoon | I think the dpad loss was to make it's flootprint much smaller | 19:43 |
| snowmoon | http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/1601800354/ | 19:43 |
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| shapr | I do like the smaller footprint. | 19:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800 is a ridiculously better buy at this point. | 19:44 |
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| Tak | ugh - dpad on slideout is horrible | 19:44 |
| snowmoon | GeneralAntilles: Yep, and this new unit is going to further drive down the price on the 800 | 19:45 |
| lardman | shapr: don't worry it's on the todo list, so we'll get it eventually | 19:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can't wait for Chinook. | 19:45 |
| shapr | Good to hear. | 19:46 |
| Jiten_ | does someone have any idea why my python program is showing up like a regular gtk-program even though I use hildon.Window? I'm running bora SDK in x86 mode. | 19:46 |
| lmoura | Jiten_, running using run-standalone.sh? | 19:46 |
| Jiten_ | I don't think so | 19:47 |
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| Jiten_ | doesn't using hildon.Window make it unnecessary? | 19:47 |
| lmoura | Try "run-standalone.sh <your-program-here>" | 19:47 |
| mgedmin | a micro usb plug next to a mini usb plug: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USB_types_2.jpg | 19:47 |
| lmoura | Jiten_, in the device, yes | 19:47 |
| mgedmin | looks a bit smaller | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | shame about not being able to reuse the same cable | 19:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thinner is the key | 19:48 |
| lmoura | while in the SDK, run-standalone.sh sets some env variables to fix it | 19:48 |
| Daniellion | wonder if its a powerd usb | 19:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Highly unlikely. | 19:49 |
| Jiten_ | ah, right, thank you | 19:49 |
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| zoran | multimedia tablet | 19:50 |
| * zoran goes to measure fire temperature at dragons' cave | 19:52 | |
| mgedmin | interesting: "handwriting recognition" is not listed among input methods | 19:52 |
| Jiten_ | maybe the binary module cost them too much :) | 19:53 |
| mgedmin | "Operating system updates available over the Internet" -- sounds like future OS upgrades via apt-get | 19:53 |
| mgedmin | I wonder if the mail client is the old brain-dead one, or if modest is finally ready | 19:54 |
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| Jiten_ | future updates via apt-get sounds good. | 19:56 |
| mgedmin | what's the diff between BP-4L and BP-5L batteries? both are 1500mAh Li-polymer | 19:56 |
| mgedmin | different form factor? | 19:56 |
| disq | both 1500mah? hmm. form factor then | 19:56 |
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| TPC | hm.. specs has been posted | 19:58 |
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| Tak | technically, the method we have now could be called "over the Internet" | 19:58 |
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| mgedmin | 20g heavier... | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sounds like you'll have to start working out. :P | 20:04 |
| snowmoon | 20g heavier, but a smaller, more pocketable footprint | 20:05 |
| TPC | hm.. only miniSD and microSD? | 20:05 |
| TPC | that sucks | 20:05 |
| lardman | pocketprint | 20:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | With the extender | 20:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's an SD slot. | 20:06 |
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| nad_ | zoran: I need to postpone this until later today, my wifi AP does not like the N800 very much, the link goes down from time to time... I have another AP, but not here and I've never had problems with that one... | 20:07 |
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| mgedmin | buttons on top: http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777246 | 20:13 |
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| TPC | I wonder if the map application included with chinook can be used on the N800 as well with a bluetooth GPS | 20:22 |
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| mgedmin | I wonder when chinook will be available for the N800 | 20:26 |
| mgedmin | probably time to install scratchbox again, given how it's not binary compatible with bora | 20:26 |
| TPC | it says in the announcement on maemo.org | 20:26 |
| TPC | the same day sales start, mid november | 20:26 |
| TPC | "The Nokia N810 will be in the shops on mid November. As soon as sales start, N800 users will be able to upgrade to the OS2008 as well." - http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192637131.html | 20:27 |
| jjo | mgedmin: it kind of depends whether it's compatible or not | 20:27 |
| ||cw | http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-hands-on/ | 20:27 |
| mgedmin | also http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html | 20:28 |
| jjo | depends on what version of debian devkit you have | 20:28 |
| wumpus | the biggest reason that n770 things don't work on the n800 is the built in floating point unit, right? | 20:28 |
| lardman | no | 20:28 |
| mgedmin | heh, I like the model number "NOO" on that picture | 20:28 |
| lardman | the n800 doesn't use the fp unit for much at all | 20:28 |
| mgedmin | ooh, translucency effects | 20:28 |
| wumpus | unless the n810 has another such big change, I doubt things will get really uncompatible.. at least, I hope | 20:28 |
| wumpus | wouldn't like my n800 to be obsolete (by nokia's standards) already | 20:30 |
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| mgedmin | isn't | 20:31 |
| mgedmin | looks like nokia learned the lesson | 20:31 |
| mgedmin | the n810 looks like an alternative to n800 for those who cried (very loudly) for a hardware keyboard | 20:31 |
| mgedmin | same software, (mostly) same hardware capabilities | 20:31 |
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| mgedmin | gps is nice, though | 20:32 |
| TPC | its a nice upgrade, 70mhz extra, built in gps, keyboard | 20:32 |
| TPC | but not worth the extra monkey if you have a 800 already | 20:32 |
| TPC | money* | 20:32 |
| [31d1] | extra monkey is always worth it | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | only when they give it to you | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | not the other way around | 20:33 |
| * mgedmin wishes he had an extra monkey | 20:33 | |
| wumpus | gps sounds really nice, though it probably means faster battery drain, the keyboard I wouldn't really use anyway | 20:33 |
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| mgedmin | I wonder if the maps app is (a) open source (b) based on maemo mapper | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | probably no on both counts | 20:34 |
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| mgedmin | "optional 10GB memory card"? | 20:35 |
| TPC | well, nokia did buy some gps company not long ago | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | where can I get me one of those? | 20:35 |
| TPC | so its probably the app from that company | 20:35 |
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| wumpus | 10gb? wow | 20:35 |
| pupnik | nice find GeneralAntilles | 20:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which? | 20:36 |
| mgedmin | the n810, I suppose | 20:37 |
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| mgedmin | your link to the tech specs here was the first thing I heard about it | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20105749&postID=1155579090765092763 | 20:37 |
| mgedmin | well, okay, shapr talking about it was the first thing I noticed actually | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | anonymous user posted the specs. | 20:38 |
| mgedmin | having to wait till mid november is no fun :( | 20:38 |
| shapr | ? | 20:38 |
| mgedmin | otoh maybe my want will wane till then | 20:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I don't desire the N810 | 20:39 |
| shapr | I do, I want the GPS. | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a pretty pointless upgrade for current N800 users. | 20:39 |
| Robot101 | GeneralAntilles: the hardware is muuuuch nicer | 20:39 |
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| mgedmin | the muchness depends on whether you want a hardware kb | 20:39 |
| mgedmin | I want the smaller size and the gps | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | shapr: http://www.amazon.com/i-Blue-737-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver/dp/B000KH7MZ4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0809862-2088831?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1192642792&sr=8-1 | 20:40 |
| bstock | i hope there's an optional hard case for it | 20:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | GPS is just gonna be a battery waste | 20:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | bluetooth GPS units are cheap | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | I assume you can turn it off | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | lugging around an external gps is not convenient | 20:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | and probably a lot more accurate than what's in an external one | 20:40 |
| shapr | Yeah, I really want fewer things to lug around. | 20:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's plenty convenient, I just leave it in the car. | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | (whether the convenience is worth an extra $480 is a good question) | 20:40 |
| shapr | I'm asking myself that question too. | 20:40 |
| shapr | $230 for an N800 and ~$50 for a bluetooth GPS | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Robot101: 70MHz, fewer SD card slots, reduction in hardware button usability? | 20:41 |
| shapr | or $480 for the N810 | 20:41 |
| mgedmin | still, what does "Up to 2GB internal memory" mean in the tech specs? | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Get the N800 | 20:41 |
| shapr | Yeah, I want to know that! | 20:41 |
| mgedmin | given that it also says "Supports cards up to 8GB. " | 20:41 |
| disq | yeah they say 256m flash, and then in storage section up to 2gig internal memory | 20:41 |
| shapr | Where does it mention the card slots for the N810? | 20:41 |
| czr | I read somewhere that it has internal memory and two slots | 20:41 |
| czr | the internal memory holds gps maps mostly | 20:41 |
| mgedmin | I assume those 256megs flash are the internal memory | 20:42 |
| mgedmin | maybe you can get a model with more? | 20:42 |
| mgedmin | like ipods? | 20:42 |
| lardman | Anyone notice this: We will publish tomorrow the details of the N810 maemo device program. | 20:42 |
| snowmoon | engadget photos seem to indicate no internal sd slot | 20:42 |
| lardman | from the maemo announcment | 20:42 |
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| shapr | I like the dual SD slots in the N800, if the N810 has only one slot, I'll definitely go for the N800 | 20:43 |
| penguinbait | sorry I left for a while, do we have hardware specs? | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | I didn't like that bit with eating SD cards in the external slot on the N800 | 20:43 |
| TPC | penguinbait, yes | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | it ate me a 512mb card | 20:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.maemoapps.com/ | 20:43 |
| penguinbait | where? | 20:43 |
| Robot101 | GeneralAntilles: its smaller, slicker, has a real keyboard. what do you mean 70MHz? | 20:43 |
| snowmoon | With only one slot... how much of that will be taken up by maps on the 810? | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | Robot101: the N800 has a 330 mhz cpu, the N810 has a 400 mhz cpu | 20:44 |
| TPC | penguinbait, http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html | 20:44 |
| penguinbait | hmmm, memory | 20:44 |
| Robot101 | oh, I didn't realise it was faster | 20:44 |
| penguinbait | oh thanks | 20:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that's not a $480 upgrade. | 20:44 |
| Robot101 | and I thought it still had two SD slots but I never checked in detail | 20:44 |
| snowmoon | what's the "nub" for? http://www.engadget.com/gallery/nokia-n810-hands-on/443959/ | 20:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's an LED | 20:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Just like the d-pad light on the N800 | 20:45 |
| mgedmin | yay, fullscreen separate from zoom buttons | 20:45 |
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| penguinbait | not real impressive huh | 20:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nope | 20:46 |
| * GeneralAntilles cries over the lack of OMAP 34xx | 20:47 | |
| mgedmin | what's the "Chr" button do? | 20:47 |
| * flip^ glances at the n810 stuff and isn't as impressed as others seem to be | 20:47 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully the N900 isn't more than 6 months away. | 20:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin: I'm guessing it's the same as option on Mac OS X | 20:47 |
| * mgedmin doesn't have mac os x | 20:47 | |
| mgedmin | entering accented letters? | 20:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Let's you type the extended characters. | 20:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443966/ | 20:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stylus, for all the blind out there. | 20:48 |
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| mgedmin | hm | 20:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | and, evidently, a hardware lock. | 20:48 |
| mgedmin | is that a full-size sd slot or a mini-sd slot? | 20:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | It better be fullsize. . . . | 20:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wow, check out the change to the application menu. | 20:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443984/ | 20:49 |
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| shapr | Is there a Nokia Internet Tablet facebook group? | 20:51 |
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| disq | there's one maemo users group and one 770 group | 20:51 |
| disq | the app menu changes are not new. | 20:52 |
| disq | they're in sardine too | 20:52 |
| * GeneralAntilles isn't cool enough to run Sardine, so they're new to me. | 20:52 | |
| * mgedmin looks at http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443962/ and thinks "no way that's a full-size sd slot" | 20:52 | |
| [31d1] | i wonder if one could get neat new stuff from nokia with the serial of that engadget dealy | 20:53 |
| kaltsi | mgedmin also the fact that it says mini SD on the card is a bit of a giveaway :) | 20:53 |
| mgedmin | the tech specs were a bit ambiguous: http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html#Contents | 20:54 |
| mgedmin | it's not clear whether the (with extender) part applies just to microSD or to both in "Support for compatible miniSD and microSD memory cards (with extender)." | 20:54 |
| ||cw | it will take a 2GB miniSD AND a 8GB SDHC | 20:54 |
| mgedmin | that would be good | 20:54 |
| mgedmin | but where's the second slot? | 20:54 |
| HGFB | I don't think there is a second slot | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too bad | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | was a nice feature | 20:55 |
| shapr | ||cw: huh? | 20:55 |
| ||cw | hm, maybe that is ambigious | 20:56 |
| * lardman|afk wonders if the transparency in the Ari Jaaksi post indicates powervr support? | 20:56 | |
| ||cw | on first read I though it said 2GB internal and an SDHC | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | it does mention sdhc | 20:56 |
| shapr | I think it does say that, but it only mentions one slot. | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | "(SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.)" | 20:56 |
| ||cw | internal like under the battery like a lot of phones do | 20:57 |
| disq | lardman|afk: transparency? | 20:57 |
| mgedmin | not visible in the pictures | 20:57 |
| lardman|afk | disq: yep | 20:57 |
| disq | where | 20:58 |
| mgedmin | ||cw: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443977/ | 20:58 |
| lardman|afk | disq: http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html | 20:58 |
| disq | ah, that one. lemme read | 20:58 |
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| ||cw | mgedmin: I know... one of the comments says 2 sd slots though | 20:58 |
| shapr | mgedmin: Yeah, that doesn't show a spot for a card. | 20:58 |
| lardman|afk | http://bp1.blogger.com/_YaAt2fURNNU/RxXcuew1beI/AAAAAAAAACI/J0KcYVHh-E4/s1600-h/17102007448.jpg to be more exact | 20:58 |
| mgedmin | otoh if that indentation in http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443961/ indicates the place for the sd card (accessible from the slot in the bottom), then it looks full-size | 20:59 |
| ||cw | http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showpost.php?p=620035&postcount=25 | 20:59 |
| * flip^ wonders if that release of the Internet Tablet OS will end up being able to go on a n800 | 20:59 | |
| * lardman|afk imagines so | 21:00 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, flip^. | 21:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192637131.html | 21:01 |
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| ||cw | press releases says 10GB mem card.... | 21:01 |
| flip^ | aha | 21:01 |
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| flip^ | I guess I'll be reflashing again next month :D | 21:02 |
| shapr | Aha, it is mozilla! | 21:03 |
| kaltsi | here's a feature comparison table btwn the different tablets http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/platforms/maemo/index.html | 21:03 |
| kaltsi | (at the bottom of the page) | 21:03 |
| timeless | speaking of mozilla | 21:05 |
| timeless | i'm looking for people here who use microb | 21:05 |
| mgedmin | "2 GB in-built, 1 memory card slot (compatible with miniSD and microSD cards up to 8 GB)" | 21:06 |
| mgedmin | in addition to the 256 mb flash | 21:06 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 21:06 |
| ||cw | scroll to the bottom here http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/platforms/maemo/index.html 2GB internal, I think the maps are on this, and microsd slot | 21:06 |
| disq | timeless: update on iphone.fb.com? | 21:06 |
| timeless | generally they're on the internal, yes | 21:06 |
| mgedmin | usb 2.0 otg | 21:06 |
| mgedmin | does that mean host mode support? | 21:06 |
| timeless | disq: no, sorry | 21:06 |
| timeless | mgedmin: that was the goal | 21:06 |
| * flip^ wonders if they've just glued a 2gb sd card into the internals | 21:06 | |
| timeless | i'm not quite sure if it happened | 21:06 |
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| disq | it'd just be better if it came with 2gig flash | 21:07 |
| timeless | flip: i haven't disassembled one yet, but essentially from a functional perspective, you might as well think about it that way | 21:07 |
| timeless | i.e. it's listed as a memory card | 21:07 |
| timeless | and you can corrupt it like an external memory card :) | 21:08 |
| timeless | (don't ask me how) | 21:08 |
| ||cw | I wonder of the 2GB internal is removable | 21:08 |
| timeless | and you don't want 2gb of flash | 21:08 |
| mgedmin | with a big enough hammer, yes :-) | 21:08 |
| timeless | flash is *slow* | 21:08 |
| * mgedmin always thought sd cards used flash internally, but /me is clueless | 21:08 | |
| timeless | it's so slow tha the browser has disk cache disabled | 21:08 |
| timeless | precisely because of that | 21:08 |
| timeless | which reminds me | 21:08 |
| ||cw | mgedmin: there are different types of flash | 21:08 |
| timeless | we should really consider forking the browser config based on n810/n800 | 21:08 |
| timeless | i.e. we didn't do that :( | 21:08 |
| * timeless sighs | 21:09 | |
| mgedmin | what filesystem does the the internal 2 gb use? | 21:09 |
| timeless | presumably fat32 | 21:09 |
| timeless | i can check tomorrow | 21:09 |
| disq | timeless: isn't flash slow because it uses jffs2? if it was big enough you could use a uncompressed fs | 21:09 |
| timeless | i believe since the product is announced, i could have taken one home | 21:09 |
| timeless | disq: no | 21:09 |
| timeless | at least, i believe it isn't | 21:09 |
| timeless | jffs2 is i believe because of the write balancing more than the compression | 21:10 |
| timeless | i.e. to avoid burning it out | 21:10 |
| mgedmin | hm, I already have 2.1 gig used on my 4 gig sd card in my n800... | 21:10 |
| disq | ah, yeah. internal flash doesn't have write balancing like the external cards. true, forgot about that | 21:10 |
| timeless | my biggest cards are 2g | 21:10 |
| mgedmin | shame, I though I could get away without an external card | 21:10 |
| timeless | disq: good, because i'm not a hardware guy, so i can't explain anything beyond that :) | 21:11 |
| * timeless frowns | 21:11 | |
| timeless | it says there's a hw QWERTY keyboard | 21:11 |
| timeless | what if i want an AZERTY or QWERTZ keyboard | 21:11 |
| timeless | (actually, i believe it has one of those) | 21:12 |
| suihkulokki | disq: you might want to google for movinand | 21:12 |
| disq | sure | 21:12 |
| shapr | I want dvorak. | 21:12 |
| timeless | shapr: i haven't seen *any* suppor for that :) | 21:12 |
| shapr | I've been using dvorak since 1992! | 21:13 |
| * timeless waits for someone to write: "I've been breathing on my own since 1993!" | 21:13 | |
| mgedmin | "HW keyboard variants: English, German, French, Italian, Spanish-Portuguese, Scandinavian and Russian" | 21:13 |
| * Tak 1979 | 21:13 | |
| * shapr 1971 | 21:13 | |
| disq | old. are we. :P | 21:14 |
| * disq 1981 | 21:14 | |
| shapr | I'm old, but at least I don't look old. | 21:14 |
| czr | you look ancient? | 21:14 |
| * czr 1976 | 21:14 | |
| * timeless cries | 21:15 | |
| timeless | has anyone here looked a the content provided as links from those pages? | 21:15 |
| * univac 1990 ;d | 21:15 | |
| shapr | Nah, I look about 27. | 21:15 |
| * timeless cries | 21:15 | |
| shapr | timeless: ? | 21:16 |
| timeless | http://maemo4mobile.garage.maemo.org/introduction.html | 21:16 |
| timeless | > For instance, a web browser on an Internet Tablet is full featured with support to AJAX and Flash. | 21:16 |
| timeless | last i checked the 770 doesn't support AJAX or Flash | 21:16 |
| timeless | s/doesn't/didn't/ :( | 21:16 |
| shapr | Google maps works for me on my 770 with OS2007 Hacker's Edition. | 21:16 |
| timeless | shapr: hey're not talking about os2007 | 21:17 |
| shapr | oh | 21:17 |
| timeless | http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/platforms/maemo/index.html#documentation | 21:17 |
| timeless | clearly doesn't lis os2007 in the 770 column | 21:17 |
| timeless | they also don't understand how to use a spell checker | 21:17 |
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| * timeless notes that there's a spellchecker available for microb | 21:17 | |
| timeless | hrm | 21:18 |
| timeless | has no one filed a bug complaining that notes doesn't offer a spell checker? :) | 21:18 |
| * mgedmin thinks it's strange firefox's spell checker doesn't provide any suggestions | 21:18 | |
| timeless | eh? | 21:18 |
| timeless | right click | 21:18 |
| lardman|afk | is the forum nokia support free? | 21:18 |
| timeless | that's how i correct people's mistakes | 21:18 |
| pupnik | timeless: what does the dpad action feel like - is there a tactile click to move left/right, or is it soft-press? | 21:18 |
| timeless | pupnik: eh | 21:19 |
| mgedmin | timeless: maybe one of my ffox extensions ate them :( | 21:19 |
| timeless | parse error :( | 21:19 |
| suihkulokki | This so great example of the maemo sdk people braindamage: http://maemo4mobile.garage.maemo.org/compile_move.html | 21:19 |
| timeless | mgedmin: maybe | 21:19 |
| disq | timeless: yeah tell us about the new dpad. is it a trackpad? no? | 21:19 |
| timeless | disq: it's like some of the newer nokia phones | 21:19 |
| Tak | does it feel like 770 dpad, or like a decent dpad? | 21:19 |
| pupnik | timeless: when you press dpad on the 770 you feel resistance then a click. | 21:19 |
| timeless | we're reusing components | 21:19 |
| timeless | personally my favorite dpad is the 770 | 21:19 |
| timeless | followed by the n800, and now the n810 | 21:19 |
| lardman|afk | hmm, 160 euros per case | 21:19 |
| timeless | i think the e61i is the bottom of this short list | 21:19 |
| suihkulokki | instead of actually writing an app that makes transferring binaries to _EASY_, lets document this long and tedious process | 21:20 |
| timeless | most other nokia dpads are even worse | 21:20 |
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| disq | timeless: so, when you move your finger on the center square part, you can ie. pan a map? without pressing the side arrowkeys | 21:20 |
| pupnik | ok thanks - 770 is close to usable :) | 21:20 |
| timeless | disq: no | 21:20 |
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| timeless | it's just a button | 21:20 |
| timeless | fwiw, i don't use the n810 much | 21:20 |
| disq | ah | 21:20 |
| timeless | i started using it jokingly last week | 21:20 |
| disq | thanks for the clarification :) | 21:21 |
| timeless | i find a couple of bugs in every few minutes of use | 21:21 |
| timeless | and spend time trying to find people to get info from my bugs | 21:21 |
| timeless | and then i go back to browser problems | 21:21 |
| timeless | like, it turns out we're really stupid | 21:21 |
| timeless | and most of our strings are really bad | 21:21 |
| disq | i should update my sardine and see what's going on | 21:21 |
| timeless | anyway, would a few microb users please volunteer to test something for me? | 21:21 |
| disq | sure. if it doesn't involve much typing on the vkb :P | 21:22 |
| timeless | hrm | 21:22 |
| timeless | can you please not use a pastebin? | 21:22 |
| timeless | i don't want to be accused of leaking anything | 21:22 |
| disq | sure | 21:22 |
| Tak | j'accuse! | 21:23 |
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| mgedmin | hm, if I buy a yet another internet table, the empty box won't fit on my shelf where I keep all the empty boxes | 21:26 |
| pupnik_ | beh did i miss an answer timeless? | 21:26 |
| timeless | pupnik: sorry, did you volunteer? | 21:27 |
| pupnik_ | i got disconnected | 21:28 |
| timeless | js bindings? | 21:28 |
| Tak | mgedmin: you'll have to have a bonfire | 21:28 |
| pupnik_ | there will be no devices in the idiot stores in my town | 21:28 |
| Tak | pupnik_: you should definitely get a device if they do a developer program | 21:28 |
| * pupnik_ agrees :} | 21:29 | |
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| Tak | (while "should" in the moral sense definitely applies, I meant "should" as in "are likely to") | 21:30 |
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| timeless | hey | 21:31 |
| timeless | quick question, | 21:31 |
| _Monkey | quick question, is there a clock taskbar app for IT2006? | 21:31 |
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| disq | lol | 21:31 |
| disq | _Monkey: forget quick question | 21:31 |
| _Monkey | disq, I didn't have anything matching quick question | 21:31 |
| timeless | _monkey forget quick question | 21:31 |
| _Monkey | timeless, I didn't have anything matching quick question | 21:31 |
| disq | _Monkey: forget quick question, | 21:31 |
| _Monkey | disq: I forgot quick question, | 21:31 |
| timeless | wow! | 21:31 |
| timeless | _monkey quick question, is <reply> | 21:32 |
| _Monkey | OK, timeless. | 21:32 |
| disq | _Monkey: quick question,? | 21:32 |
| _Monkey | i don't know, disq | 21:32 |
| timeless | that's so random... (and yes, i understand how it happened) | 21:32 |
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| timeless | _monkey literal quick quesion, | 21:32 |
| _Monkey | timeless: what? | 21:32 |
| timeless | _monkey literal quick question, | 21:33 |
| _Monkey | timeless: quick question, =is= <reply> | 21:33 |
| timeless | oh fsck | 21:37 |
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| lardman|afk | interesting - omapdsp: frame buffer has been exported already! | 21:38 |
| pupnik_ | 20:24 <@Michae1> maybe I'll buy a tub of them | 21:39 |
| pupnik_ | 20:24 <@Michae1> and take internet tablet baths | 21:39 |
| mgedmin | that's a novel use case | 21:39 |
| TPC | I did that :) | 21:39 |
| TPC | I have a waterproof casing for pdas, with a soft transparant front | 21:40 |
| TPC | you can use the touch screen trought it :) | 21:40 |
| keesj | lardman what are you doing , it sounds very interesting | 21:40 |
| lardman|afk | trying to write to the framebuffer from the dsp | 21:41 |
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| lardman|afk | ssvb/serge was interested in doing full screen video in mplayer by offloading the scaling and conversion routines | 21:41 |
| lardman|afk | s/was/is | 21:42 |
| czr | silly question, when the rootstrap installation script for bora is run, is the apt-get executed within the targets already or in scratchbox using host tools? | 21:42 |
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| |R | any idea how many apps will break on OS2008? :) | 21:44 |
| lardman|afk | all of them | 21:44 |
| lardman|afk | they have moved to a newer version of gtk+ iirc | 21:44 |
| flip^ | hopefully most of the ones i use will be updated nice and quick tho ;) | 21:45 |
| *** lardman|afk is now known as lardman | 21:45 | |
| lopz | adiós | 21:45 |
| * Tak waiting happily for hildon-glade | 21:46 | |
| lardman | anyone know, off hand, where the framebuffer is exported to if CONFIG_FB_OMAP_LCDC_EXTERNAL is set...? | 21:46 |
| Jiten_ | it seems calling window.show_all() is the only way to get toolbar buttons to show with pygtk and hildon.Window of course. The toolbar itself does show in either case. | 21:48 |
| MDK | Jiten_: it's a bug in bora | 21:48 |
| MDK | Jiten_: fixed in chinook | 21:48 |
| Jiten_ | I see. | 21:48 |
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| |R | any idea why Aplication manager would freeze when launched alone? :( | 21:51 |
| pupnik_ | what's this little corner thing? http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/10/nokia-n810-hands-on-05.jpg | 21:51 |
| timeless | that's the light | 21:52 |
| |R | pupnik_ : led | 21:52 |
| timeless | it's for annoying people | 21:52 |
| |R | hehe | 21:52 |
| pupnik_ | to blink for email messages when screen is dark? | 21:52 |
| timeless | yes | 21:52 |
| suihkulokki | morse | 21:52 |
| timeless | it's the same annoying blue as last time | 21:52 |
| timeless | fwiw there's also a light indicator, i believe that's the smaller square highlighted by the light gloss in that picture | 21:53 |
| timeless | it's designed to let your screen go very bright if you thumb it, i suppose ... dunno | 21:53 |
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| timeless | the light sensor also controls whether the keys have this nokia blue coloring bleeding through the letters | 21:54 |
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| Tak | |R: you check out the new releases? | 21:54 |
| timeless | that picture also shows the fullscreen button | 21:54 |
| disq | i thought so. leds draw power | 21:54 |
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| |R | Tak : the one on garage? | 21:55 |
| timeless | what it doesn't show is that you can't really access it when the keyboard is open :) | 21:55 |
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| Tak | yes; in extras repo as well | 21:55 |
| timeless | the zoom buttons are now thankfully no longer interrupted by the fullscreen button (back to the 770 design, yay!) | 21:55 |
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| disq | where's the menu key? the left keys are escape and home? or is it home? something else? if it's fullscreen, what's the left key on the top side? | 21:55 |
| flip^ | menu is on the keyboard | 21:55 |
| |R | Tak: well, i did yesterday, before i fucked up big time (trashed /bin instead of ~bin !!) | 21:55 |
| timeless | the menu key is protected by the tray | 21:55 |
| disq | ah, ok | 21:55 |
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| timeless | you wouldn't want to use the menu key, would you? :( | 21:55 |
| Tak | lol - doh! | 21:55 |
| Tak | everything seem ok up until that point? | 21:56 |
| timeless | fwiw, there's now a hardware keylock/unlock feature | 21:56 |
| timeless | it might work | 21:56 |
| disq | now that the dpad is out of the picture (heh) we need to code some pulldown-like menus for kagu | 21:56 |
| |R | Tak : now i'm reinstalling and it seems weird, it seems i'm using more space than before with basically not everything reinstalled yet and application manager won't launch... | 21:56 |
| pupnik_ | 20% brighter screen is going to be crazy bright | 21:56 |
| disq | can't go on with dpad shortcuts | 21:56 |
| flip^ | its brighter :o | 21:56 |
| timeless | pupnik: i can't speak to the brighter part | 21:56 |
| |R | Tak : well yes, except all the but (beside top left) were reverted | 21:56 |
| flip^ | pupnik_: think you'll be tempted to splash out? | 21:56 |
| Tak | what?! | 21:56 |
| timeless | we're in helsinki, and i haven't been able to take the device into the sun until today | 21:56 |
| timeless | and i won't be able to until there's sun, say maybe may? | 21:57 |
| Tak | with the released -bora4? | 21:57 |
| timeless | unless i fly to california... | 21:57 |
| |R | let me try my my "fresh" install... | 21:57 |
| lardman | timeless: :) | 21:57 |
| pupnik_ | heh | 21:57 |
| timeless | lardman: ... | 21:57 |
| * Tak stab Xsp so viciously | 21:57 | |
| timeless | fwiw, i don't particularly like the home/escape buttons | 21:57 |
| timeless | i think they're now much harder to use | 21:58 |
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| timeless | of note, the home button now only triggers the thumb menu | 21:58 |
| timeless | instead of whichever menu you last triggered | 21:58 |
| |R | Tak: ah ok, the more space usage problem is the restoration of nokia's video and such... | 21:58 |
| |R | Tak: nop, still reverted buttons | 21:59 |
| lardman | timeless: is the powervr used now? | 21:59 |
| pupnik_ | engadget sure is worth sending an early unit to, for the sweet pix alone | 21:59 |
| timeless | um, if that's a hardware thing, i wouldn't know | 21:59 |
| lardman | ok | 22:00 |
| * Tak sighs | 22:00 | |
| lardman | in which case, is the alpha blending good? | 22:00 |
| * timeless sighs | 22:00 | |
| lardman | :D | 22:00 |
| timeless | i need to file a bug about the browser art | 22:00 |
| timeless | the icon we have for the browser app in the menu is wrong | 22:00 |
| timeless | they switched art styles for the icons and didn't refresh the browser one | 22:00 |
| * |R brb | 22:01 | |
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| timeless | ok, so, i'm looking for a second person to express an opinion on a web page (w/ microb) | 22:04 |
| TPC | I can do it | 22:06 |
| timeless | disq: can you repeat the things i asked you to look at for tpc? | 22:07 |
| timeless | oops, wrong window | 22:07 |
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| keesj | is python included in 2008? | 22:11 |
| |R | we need a dpkg -l ;) | 22:11 |
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| timeless | heh | 22:16 |
| keesj | If i read it correctly we might have the software on the n800 before the n810 hits the market | 22:16 |
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| czr | hmm. is there any particular reason why within targets the PATH is by default setup so that /usr/local/bin is after all the system paths? | 22:20 |
| * czr curses silently | 22:20 | |
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| czr | ah. sbox breaks down LD_PRELOAD stuff as well. | 22:24 |
| suihkulokki | czr: us SBOX_PRELOAD to ld_preload target binareis | 22:25 |
| czr | suihkulokki, yeah, except that I'd have to rebuild the software since it does the LD_PRELOADing for me. I'll just ignore it | 22:26 |
| czr | suihkulokki, trying to setup a virtual machine image suitable for SDK experementation, and attempted to setup zerotools ( http://koltsoff.com/pub/zerotools/ ) within both targets so that the virtual machine image would remain "clean" | 22:27 |
| czr | but, I guess I'll just let it bloat then. | 22:27 |
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| * zeenix wonders why the channel is not filled with N810 talk :) | 22:34 | |
| zeenix | s/filled/flooded/ | 22:34 |
| snowmoon | because it's a wimpy update | 22:34 |
| Tak | alterego: is there a deb repo for ruby-maemo? | 22:34 |
| mgedmin | zeenix: it was, for a while | 22:35 |
| wumpus | because most of us probably already have a n800 | 22:35 |
| mgedmin | snowmoon: you can't please everyone, either people will complain about update wimpyness, or other people will complain that their brand new n800 became obsolete overnight | 22:35 |
| mgedmin | (or both) | 22:35 |
| wumpus | I'll probably skip this one, maybe go for the n900 when it's there :) | 22:36 |
| alterego | Tak, not yet. There will be soon :) | 22:36 |
| HGFB | I'm not sure how they can complain. Apart from the keyboard and gps the N800 is more capable :) | 22:36 |
| wumpus | unless they finally activated powervr and it has great 3d support, then I might consider buying one, but I doubht it | 22:36 |
| * Tak nods | 22:36 | |
| snowmoon | I'm just hoping that the 810 will drive down the prices on the 800 so that I can justify it as a toy | 22:36 |
| HGFB | Especially since OS2008 is going to be released very soon | 22:36 |
| lardman|afk | wumpus: if they did that, it ought to hold true for the n800 too | 22:36 |
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| onion | looks nice | 22:37 |
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| HGFB | I don't think they've activated the powervr. A dev on another blog said the transparancy was cpu based | 22:37 |
| lardman | ah, shame | 22:37 |
| MDK | wumpus: no changes on this fron, but be patient | 22:37 |
| MDK | *front | 22:37 |
| lardman | ah, sounds interesting | 22:37 |
| MDK | there are very complex issues involved, if it was simple, we would have done it | 22:38 |
| lardman | MDK: like negotiating prices? | 22:38 |
| wumpus | genuine technical issues or license stuff? | 22:38 |
| MDK | complex as in "not technically related" | 22:38 |
| onion | but are we 770 user 100% screwed now? | 22:38 |
| MDK | don't ask me, I can't talk (I wish I could) | 22:38 |
| wumpus | well, if it was technical I'd gladly help :p | 22:38 |
| lardman | MDK interesting none the less, thanks for the hints | 22:39 |
| guerby | I don't see why Nokia would not release new hardware for N800 as fast as they release phones: everyone knows product are replaced every 6 monthes by something better | 22:39 |
| alterego | onion, depends what you mean. The platform is so open I'm sure developers could, on their own, compile root filesystem images from the latest releases. Though I imagine that OS2008 which uses main stream Gtk etc will be very slow on a 770 | 22:39 |
| guerby | buying one of these gadget and complaining that something better is out after a few monthes is not logical | 22:39 |
| lardman | is H.264 supported on the n800? | 22:39 |
| MDK | alterego: the "mainstream gtk" is not slower in OS2008 | 22:40 |
| wumpus | guerby: because a stable platform is good for software development, especially if you rely on open source | 22:40 |
| alterego | lardman, will be with OS2008 I believe, not sure if it is now. Should say in the spec docs. | 22:40 |
| MDK | (than it was in OS2007) | 22:40 |
| alterego | MDK, it will be on the 770 | 22:40 |
| onion | alterego: developing... I can't afford to get every model that comes out | 22:40 |
| lardman | alterego: I was just thinking that the IVA is supposed to decode that | 22:40 |
| alterego | The issue here is not with the N800 it's continued OS images for the 770. | 22:40 |
| guerby | wumpus, software has to adapt to platform change continuously (especially in the UI world) | 22:41 |
| wumpus | people writing OS won't buy a new device every few months, so might get tired of it.. of course, they can release incrementally better devices (like the N810 seems to be) | 22:41 |
| alterego | The N800 will be supported until OS2009 I believe. | 22:41 |
| wumpus | but breaking compatibility again this soon would be a bad idea | 22:41 |
| wumpus | alterego: great | 22:41 |
| MDK | guys, remember there is a developer program (or is going to be soon) | 22:41 |
| alterego | MDK, you really think they'll have on for the N810? I'm personally not so sure about that .. ;) | 22:42 |
| MDK | so you can get discounted device if you have a nice maemo development history | 22:42 |
| guerby | wumpus, it looks like N810 will not break compat, but I've no problem if they do break | 22:42 |
| Tak | I'm with onion - I'd like to see OS2008HE | 22:42 |
| disq | alterego: the maemo announcement says there will be. | 22:42 |
| alterego | Oh, that's great. | 22:42 |
| MDK | alterego: yes, there will be one for n810 | 22:42 |
| * alterego will apply :) | 22:42 | |
| wumpus | guerby: I would, I can't be bothered buying a new device every year.. I don't do that for phones either | 22:42 |
| alterego | I wonder if ruby-maemo will give me enough credits to be accepted into the program ^_^ | 22:43 |
| MDK | alterego: ah, you're the guy doing the ruby stuff? | 22:43 |
| guerby | wumpus, yes but in what a new device bother you then? | 22:43 |
| wumpus | and phones have JME applets anyway which have been working for a long time | 22:43 |
| alterego | MDK, indeed :) | 22:43 |
| lardman | what is the cause of the n800's video bandwidth issue? the lcd controller? | 22:43 |
| wumpus | guerby: incompatibility, old versus new developers, etc | 22:43 |
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| MDK | alterego: ah, I'll test it soon | 22:44 |
| guerby | wumpus, did you complain when new phone model came out? | 22:44 |
| MDK | alterego: now you see why I asked about chinook support ;) | 22:44 |
| alterego | MDK, best wait till the major release. It's only a few days away :) | 22:44 |
| wumpus | guerby: phones run java, which remains compatible usually | 22:44 |
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| suihkulokki | wumpus: the abi break know is to get rid of the forked gtk.. now that it's "mainstream gtk", it shouldn't break | 22:44 |
| pauliukas | Well, there we have it. My 770 is officially obsolete. | 22:44 |
| alterego | MDK, I've been planning ahead on this project the whole way. After I get 1.0 out I'm going to start working on Ruby1.9/2.0 for the device, ready for when Ruby is released at the end of this year. | 22:44 |
| onion | pauliukas: yeah, welcome to the club... | 22:45 |
| timeless | "shouldn't" | 22:45 |
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| timeless | you mean, until the next time gtk breaks its abis :) | 22:45 |
| pauliukas | onion: Thanks for the welcome. | 22:45 |
| suihkulokki | timeless: gtk2 in mainstream distro's has not changed soname.. | 22:45 |
| alterego | Why do you think it's obsolete? | 22:45 |
| czr | you can always make a small gtk-program to turn the 770 into a wireless picture frame ;-) | 22:45 |
| alterego | The 770 still has oodles of potential :) | 22:45 |
| wumpus | suihkulokki: yes, there will be less reason why an OS might not work on the n880, unless maemo pulls a vista/aero kind of thing, but that'd drain battery like hell | 22:45 |
| MDK | timeless: gtk hasn't broken API compatibility since years | 22:46 |
| suihkulokki | ..ofcourse, the chinook gtk is still patched and has dozens of unstable #MAEMO_CHANGES things | 22:46 |
| MDK | we broke it, because we fucked up the whole thing right from start ;) | 22:46 |
| MDK | by forking our stuff | 22:46 |
| alterego | Hah | 22:46 |
| mgedmin | pauliukas: wasn't it officially obsolete back when the n800 first came out? | 22:46 |
| lodxcol | can someone link me to the page that has the package url's for gaim on the nokia 770 | 22:46 |
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| MDK | so we needed this disruption to get back on sanity track | 22:46 |
| onion | you should get spanked for that ;) | 22:46 |
| MDK | yes, it's bad that we broke it | 22:46 |
| pauliukas | mgedmin: To me, the 800 wasn't a huge improvement. | 22:46 |
| mgedmin | I don't see how n810 changes things for 770 owners | 22:46 |
| MDK | but we broke it for a reason not to break it in future | 22:47 |
| timeless | tpc: dunno | 22:47 |
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| TPC | timeless, wrong channel | 22:47 |
| alterego | I happen to own an N800 and a 770. To me the N800 is a vast improvement .. | 22:47 |
| suihkulokki | MDK: some "minor" things like TAP-AND-HOLD menu might still break if/when upstream chooses another approach | 22:47 |
| alterego | Upstream has already chosen an approach. | 22:48 |
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| Tak | heh, I prefer the 770 | 22:48 |
| snowmoon | 770 was just too slow for me to take seriously | 22:48 |
| * alterego gets back to work. | 22:48 | |
| MDK | suihkulokki: we're ina very close contact with upstram | 22:48 |
| snowmoon | I played with it for a while | 22:48 |
| lodxcol | anyone? | 22:48 |
| MDK | also, guys, be reasonable | 22:49 |
| alterego | Hah | 22:49 |
| timeless | err, don't ask linux users to be reasonable | 22:49 |
| suihkulokki | :) | 22:49 |
| MDK | seriously, n800 owners (one year old hw) get now full software upgrade | 22:49 |
| MDK | with new shit, one year worth of bugfixing etc. | 22:49 |
| wumpus | yeah, the 770 was a bit too slow, which is why I didn't buy it when it came out | 22:49 |
| MDK | I'm not saying we're perfect | 22:49 |
| lardman | lodxcol: have you tried the maemo package list thingy? | 22:49 |
| guerby | lodxcol, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationCatalog | 22:49 |
| wumpus | MDK: I'm not complaining | 22:50 |
| lardman | that's the one | 22:50 |
| MDK | but we're getting better and we learn the lessons ;) | 22:50 |
| alterego | Bug fixing and _features_. Not to mention the new API's are a lot nicer. | 22:50 |
| wumpus | I love the N800 | 22:50 |
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| wumpus | there's always stuff that can be done better but the project is coming along well | 22:50 |
| MDK | also, I should note that that OS2008 has been FULLY tested on n800 | 22:50 |
| snowmoon | who is, MDK, I think the N series has a lot of potential... I was just hoping for more with the 810 | 22:50 |
| MDK | so it's not something like -- we just release it for n800 | 22:50 |
| wumpus | also a lot of apps available | 22:50 |
| MDK | it has been developed and tested all the time on n800 | 22:50 |
| wumpus | and quite a good package system | 22:51 |
| * flip^ glances in and wonders if MDK works for nokia or something | 22:51 | |
| snowmoon | the gecko based browser is a big step... lots of built in upgrades right there... google docs should work | 22:51 |
| alterego | I still want libxul!!!! | 22:51 |
| mgedmin | I wish maemo cloned the Ubuntu approach (single shared repository, source-only uploads, build daemons for many architectures, volunteer maintainers that can fix any package) | 22:52 |
| zeenix | yup! i see a big positive diff when i compare the new software with the last released | 22:52 |
| wumpus | opera will be ditched? | 22:52 |
| * snowmoon ponders... google gears for OS2008 | 22:52 | |
| zeenix | flip^: he does :) | 22:52 |
| wumpus | I don't know if I'm really that happy about that | 22:52 |
| MDK | wumpus: it's ditched | 22:52 |
| timeless | fwiw, someone did google gears for microb | 22:52 |
| alterego | mgedmin, ubuntu don't make hardware. | 22:52 |
| timeless | they were supposed to write an announcement somewhere | 22:52 |
| zeenix | flip^: but i don't, i swear :) | 22:52 |
| mgedmin | alterego: maemo.org doesn't either ;-) | 22:52 |
| wumpus | at least on my old P550 machine, opera is a lot more responsive and uses less memory than firefox | 22:52 |
| timeless | i don't know what happened to it | 22:52 |
| * flip^ raises an eyebrow at zeenix | 22:53 | |
| snowmoon | with gears it would be dirt simple to sync google to OS2008 and be on the go for a while without WiFi | 22:53 |
| wumpus | but I can see why gecko is preferable | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | is google gears open-source? | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | if so, it can be ported | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | iirc microb supports extensions | 22:53 |
| konttori | evening guys! | 22:53 |
| timeless | it does | 22:53 |
| * konttori starts to read the backlog | 22:53 | |
| timeless | as i said, someone did a google gears port | 22:54 |
| timeless | they were supposed to write an announcement, i don't know what happened to it | 22:54 |
| timeless | http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/ | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | oh, right, I missed that | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | too much traffic here | 22:54 |
| timeless | it could be worse, i have 3 other heres here | 22:55 |
| *** lodxcol has quit IRC | 22:57 | |
| timeless | dunno, trying to push the google search button down i guess? | 22:57 |
| timeless | arg | 22:57 |
| timeless | gah. i need to consider a graphical irc client | 22:58 |
| *** erstazi has quit IRC | 22:58 | |
| * alterego recommends XChat :) | 22:59 | |
| konttori | timeless: thanks for the greasemonkey. So, now I could for example without much trouble write a script that will open youtube clips directly in uktube or even in mplayer. | 22:59 |
| timeless | officially i wasn't involved | 22:59 |
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| timeless | but i'm glad you liked the link | 23:00 |
| * Tak recommend XChat | 23:00 | |
| konttori | hey, will someone please port xchat for chinook now. | 23:01 |
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| alterego | Heh | 23:01 |
| konttori | as you guys can see, messaging apps will suddendly make much more sense than before | 23:01 |
| MDK | is the maemo mappper developer around? | 23:01 |
| alterego | konttori, that's a good point ;) | 23:01 |
| konttori | I think pidgin is being worked on | 23:01 |
| konttori | gnuite? | 23:01 |
| roope | Hello. | 23:01 |
| MDK | we need to port maemo mapper | 23:01 |
| alterego | pidgin is awesome .. | 23:01 |
| konttori | hi roope | 23:01 |
| * roope ears are still ringing from Muse. | 23:01 | |
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| disq | so, when do we get modest as the default mail client :P | 23:02 |
| juh0 | what is the status of os2008 for n800? ready or not? | 23:02 |
| timeless | muse? | 23:02 |
| Lariso | can anyone help me with running a shell script from the n800 menu? | 23:02 |
| roope | Muse, the band. | 23:02 |
| pupnik_ | Lariso easiest way is to install load-applet-run or osso-statusbar-cpu to run shell scripts | 23:02 |
| disq | konttori: how's kagu behaving on chinook? :P | 23:03 |
| konttori | didn't try | 23:03 |
| Lariso | i'll try that. i'm using 2007 HE | 23:03 |
| konttori | I did port (well.. port ;) ukmp to it | 23:03 |
| disq | but you tried ukmp didn't you :P | 23:03 |
| konttori | yeah | 23:03 |
| Lariso | ^^should have typed n700 up there | 23:03 |
| Jiten_ | I guess I should build this application I'm writing right now with an eye on OS2008. | 23:03 |
| Lariso | *770 | 23:03 |
| konttori | works just fine. | 23:03 |
| bmidgley | is that a flash above the n810 camera? | 23:03 |
| * Jiten_ goes looking for documents on the differences. | 23:03 | |
| konttori | Only had to change gstreamer init | 23:03 |
| konttori | that's the beauty of python. | 23:03 |
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| snowmoon | bmidgley: light sensor ( according to talk ) | 23:04 |
| bmidgley | ok | 23:05 |
| bmidgley | what about zoom buttons? are they n800 style or the nicer 770 style? | 23:05 |
| konttori | disq: I'll try kagu for you tomorrow | 23:05 |
| timeless | zoom nbuttons are 770 style | 23:06 |
| konttori | We are still not allowed to take protos home | 23:06 |
| timeless | but unsable w/ keyboard open | 23:06 |
| timeless | konttori: really? | 23:06 |
| konttori | or are we... maybe we are.. anyway, I don't have it. | 23:06 |
| timeless | someone said once the real things are known that we should be | 23:06 |
| timeless | note: i'm not yet, i don't see the point | 23:06 |
| timeless | i.e. the announcement was today | 23:06 |
| timeless | and the hardware is clearly in the wild | 23:06 |
| konttori | Yeah, so we should be able to use it in public now | 23:07 |
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| pauliukas | what? | 23:07 |
| pauliukas | You had that all the time long? | 23:07 |
| timeless | had wha? | 23:07 |
| konttori | anyway, I'll take it home tomorrow, but I'll try to test kagu at the office. | 23:07 |
| pauliukas | "konttori | 23:07 |
| pauliukas | : | 23:07 |
| pauliukas | Yeah, so we should be able to use it in public now" | 23:07 |
| disq | konttori: thank you :) | 23:07 |
| pauliukas | Who's this "we" | 23:08 |
| timeless | nokians | 23:08 |
| timeless | we've had protos for months | 23:08 |
| Lariso | do i have to reboot after installing osso-statusbar-cpu or will it not run on 2007 HE | 23:08 |
| konttori | yeah, well, I work for nokia now as well. Started 1,5 months ago. | 23:08 |
| pauliukas | motherfu... | 23:08 |
| timeless | but you can't talk about products until they're announced | 23:08 |
| timeless | so you wouldn't hear anyone talk about them until today | 23:08 |
| pauliukas | oh come on. | 23:08 |
| pauliukas | You can make loads of money. | 23:09 |
| pauliukas | nokiarumors.com | 23:09 |
| pauliukas | or something like that. | 23:09 |
| czr | you can always wait for some unrelated press-releases to leak out the info though :-) | 23:09 |
| pauliukas | 9to5nokia.com :-P | 23:09 |
| konttori | we have been relly busy working to get the thing polished for the past weeks, so I haven't had the time to try out any 3rd party stuff on it. otherwise I would have tested kagu already | 23:09 |
| timeless | czr: yeah well | 23:09 |
| timeless | that means we can talk a day earlier | 23:09 |
| timeless | not very helpful, and not like we care | 23:09 |
| * czr nods | 23:09 | |
| timeless | i'm not really interested in the n810 | 23:09 |
| pauliukas | BS! | 23:09 |
| timeless | as a browser dev, i really don't care about the n810 | 23:09 |
| * alterego imagines that the N820 will be identical to the N810 + a GPRS/GSM modem ^_^ | 23:09 | |
| timeless | especially given we aren't even taking advantage of its internal mmc for caching | 23:10 |
| timeless | which is a bug i intend to file and possibly fix before we ship the n810s :) | 23:10 |
| pauliukas | browser dev? | 23:10 |
| konttori | I can say that I think it's really a wonderful device. Keyboard extends the usefulness of the device so much that I can really see myself using it to just about anything now. | 23:10 |
| czr | timeless, good luck getting that through the test cycle though ;-) | 23:10 |
| pauliukas | Isn't Opera doing the browser? | 23:10 |
| timeless | no | 23:10 |
| MDK | not any more ;) | 23:10 |
| pauliukas | And while we're at it, how come the browser crashes a lot on the 770. | 23:10 |
| pauliukas | Really? Since when? | 23:10 |
| konttori | timeless: why don't you cache there? | 23:11 |
| timeless | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/index.xml | 23:11 |
| ian_brasil | mgedmin: gears is BSD licensed | 23:11 |
| czr | konttori, they keyboard is useful for real writing? or just IM? | 23:11 |
| timeless | konttori: because we're idiots | 23:11 |
| keesj | timeless: it' | 23:11 |
| timeless | as i said, i'll try to fix it before the n810s ship | 23:11 |
| timeless | keesj: i'm speaking as browser architect | 23:11 |
| keesj | timeless: it's great that microb made it | 23:11 |
| timeless | there are a lot of stupid things we're not doing right | 23:11 |
| timeless | that's only one of htem | 23:11 |
| pauliukas | what the fu... | 23:11 |
| konttori | kb is usefull for even real writing. But it's thumb, so writing is not so fast as on a real kb. But still, quite fast | 23:11 |
| pauliukas | why wasn't I told about this before. | 23:11 |
| czr | konttori, nice to hear. | 23:11 |
| timeless | pauliukas: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/5/ | 23:12 |
| timeless | specifically for meet the team | 23:12 |
| alterego | timeless, get them to stick libxul in the rootfs for me :) | 23:12 |
| czr | lack of keyb was the only thing that kept me from using the previous ITs for anything. | 23:12 |
| timeless | and since i guess someone announced it, the itos 2008 will not include opera | 23:12 |
| timeless | only microb | 23:12 |
| pauliukas | geez. this is crazy. | 23:12 |
| pauliukas | And microb is usable on OS2006? | 23:12 |
| timeless | alterego: believe me i want to | 23:12 |
| alterego | :) | 23:12 |
| timeless | pauliukas: yes, has been since i dunno, a while ago | 23:12 |
| alterego | Any chance? I tried compiling it myself but it didn't work out so well ^_^ | 23:13 |
| pauliukas | wow... | 23:13 |
| pauliukas | downloading it now. | 23:13 |
| konttori | good work on getting the browser stable in the past two weeks. It's really working now. | 23:13 |
| pauliukas | Hope it doesn't crash as much as opera does. | 23:13 |
| timeless | alterego: it works | 23:13 |
| alterego | timeless, it'd show those iPhone weiners a thing or two ;) | 23:13 |
| alterego | Sweet. | 23:13 |
| timeless | setup a scratchbox and pull from garage.maemo.org/svn/browser | 23:13 |
| alterego | timeless, you're a star, thanks so much :) | 23:13 |
| timeless | just don't include --disable-xul | 23:13 |
| timeless | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/ | 23:14 |
| alterego | If I'd known it was _that_ easy ^_^ | 23:14 |
| timeless | if you want to browse sources | 23:14 |
| timeless | that's slightly out of date as i don't updae daily | 23:14 |
| timeless | my 't' key doesn't work well, i think it's dying from overuse | 23:14 |
| alterego | Well, I'm stuck working on ruby-maemo right now. I'll bookmark and look into it later. :) | 23:14 |
| timeless | fwiw, i got someone to write a howto for writing microb extensions | 23:14 |
| timeless | i expect it to be posted later this week | 23:14 |
| alterego | Great. | 23:15 |
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| Lariso | my osso-statusbar-cpu doesn't appear in the status bar even though i enabled it :( | 23:17 |
| pupnik_ | might be a problem with os2007he, sorry Lariso | 23:17 |
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| Lariso | i don't mind editing the menu files to make my own shortcuts but .. well, they don't work | 23:18 |
| *** bepp has left #maemo | 23:18 | |
| Lariso | it's just a little script to start a vpn up. | 23:18 |
| pauliukas | damn | 23:18 |
| pauliukas | Not enough memory... | 23:18 |
| pauliukas | I wonder how much it needs. | 23:18 |
| timeless | lariso: the vpnc hing doesn't work for you? | 23:19 |
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| czr | hmm. would be completely impossible to get a periodic ntp sync from dhcp provided ntp-server list? | 23:19 |
| * czr gets annoyed by clocks that differ too easily | 23:19 | |
| Lariso | vpnc eh | 23:19 |
| cesman | To the "Nokians" in the channel... How about N8xx fused with the GP2X for the next model?! | 23:20 |
| Lariso | *reading* | 23:20 |
| cesman | please put that in the suggestion box ;) | 23:20 |
| VRe | 770: MMC, 800: SD: 810: mini/microSD?? | 23:23 |
| timeless | vre: yes | 23:25 |
| timeless | nokia = consistency | 23:25 |
| pauliukas | uhhh | 23:25 |
| flip^ | well, 800: mmc/sd/variants | 23:25 |
| pauliukas | I installed it but I don't see it anywhere. | 23:25 |
| pauliukas | Does it need a restart or something | 23:25 |
| timeless | also note tha the hardware layout for zoom/fullscreen/home/keys has consistently changed for each product | 23:25 |
| Lariso | does vpnc work with ssh | 23:25 |
| VRe | Nice, I can use old MMC (which was burned by kernel-bug) in the new one.. not the nice 4GB SD from n800.. | 23:25 |
| timeless | the art work for each button has also changed | 23:25 |
| timeless | vre: you can install os 2008 on your n800 before you can buy an n810 | 23:26 |
| disq | anybody know how to monitor a file in sysfs? | 23:26 |
| VRe | Yeap :) | 23:26 |
| wumpus | timeless: I suppose it's still a bit of an experimental project | 23:26 |
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| VRe | VRe: I was thinking dumping the 800 to gf and getting myself the new toy | 23:26 |
| pauliukas | Oh... it replaces Opera? | 23:27 |
| pauliukas | Damn. Got an error | 23:27 |
| timeless | wumpus: just a bit? | 23:27 |
| timeless | the n800 had a radio oto | 23:27 |
| VRe | radio is gone? | 23:27 |
| * timeless insults vre's irc client | 23:27 | |
| timeless | pauliukas: yes, opera's gone | 23:27 |
| pauliukas | that's not good. | 23:27 |
| pauliukas | I'm getting errors. | 23:27 |
| timeless | vre: radio was traded for gps | 23:28 |
| mgedmin | VRe: no you can't use an rs-mmc card in a mini-sd slot | 23:28 |
| timeless | (not seriously, but if you want to look a it some way) | 23:28 |
| pupnik_ | could you record off radio? | 23:28 |
| mgedmin | ... or can you? | 23:28 |
| mgedmin | I'd be surprised | 23:28 |
| VRe | Might not work | 23:28 |
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| VRe | timeless: irssi? Something wrong? | 23:28 |
| juh0 | does n800 os2008's map application support bluetooth gps receiver? | 23:28 |
| czr | disq, depends on the file in question really. some support dnotify(), most don't | 23:28 |
| pauliukas | Sorry. Too lazy to actually write down the error | 23:29 |
| pauliukas | http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8871/photo82bl1.jpg | 23:29 |
| czr | disq, i.e., depends on whether the driver producing the file actually signals the kernel with changes or not. | 23:29 |
| timeless | <VRe:#maemo> VRe: I was thinking dumping the 800 to gf and getting myself the | 23:29 |
| disq | i think so. dnotify. i'll look that up thanks | 23:29 |
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| czr | disq, might be inotify too. I always confuse the two :-) | 23:29 |
| pauliukas | Is that something known or do I now officially need to nuke and pave? | 23:29 |
| czr | one is older syscall, one is pretty new | 23:29 |
| timeless | file; ? | 23:29 |
| disq | yes it's inotify | 23:29 |
| VRe | timeless: probably some wtf8 crap cut the sentence down | 23:30 |
| timeless | vre: file: should always work | 23:30 |
| czr | disq, what are you trying to monitor? | 23:30 |
| timeless | disq: so um... what's my status, do i take what i have or should i try to do something else? | 23:31 |
| disq | headphone jack | 23:31 |
| _Monkey | headphone jack is 4 pins actually, one of them is mic. | 23:31 |
| timeless | bump the font size? | 23:31 |
| disq | _Monkey: ooh really? | 23:31 |
| timeless | _monkey forget headphone jack | 23:31 |
| _Monkey | disq: bugger all, i dunno | 23:31 |
| _Monkey | timeless: I forgot headphone jack | 23:31 |
| timeless | _monkey headphone jack is <reply> | 23:31 |
| _Monkey | OK, timeless. | 23:31 |
| czr | disq, ah, don't know whether it's notified properly. drop me a note if it is. | 23:31 |
| disq | timeless: your status on what? no activity in our secret channel | 23:31 |
| VRe | Ok: wishlist for the next device: motions sensors ala wiimote, lightsensor(there is one?), radio, _good_ gps, normal SD slot (for that cheap and available memory), screen that is readable atleast in partial sunlite.. | 23:32 |
| mgedmin | one month battery life without recharging... | 23:33 |
| VRe | But I think the design-guru & hw-team has already cooked up the next device.. | 23:33 |
| mgedmin | built-in coffee machine... | 23:33 |
| VRe | mgedmin: sounds like emacs | 23:33 |
| timeless | in practice it seems the hardware designers design 2-5 devices in the future, refusing to ever talk to anyone to get feedback | 23:33 |
| mgedmin | I wouldn't know, I use vim :-) | 23:33 |
| Lariso | so with a menu shell script: i write a shell script, that runs fine from command line with "sh /root/vpn.sh" | 23:33 |
| Lariso | what do i put as command in .desktop file to run this? | 23:34 |
| VRe | timeless: I have noticed that before too.. that ought to be changed | 23:34 |
| timeless | there are lots of things that should be changed | 23:34 |
| timeless | vre: i think you'll find just about everything i'm describing is much less than ideal | 23:35 |
| VRe | we'll that is just a sign that there is more paychecks coming down in the future.. =) | 23:35 |
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| timeless | heh, you're a glass is half full guy | 23:35 |
| Lariso | oh ffs | 23:36 |
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| Lariso | i just noticed the top of my script.. #!/bin/bash | 23:36 |
| timeless | oh, that'll work well on our devices :) | 23:36 |
| pauliukas | Alright guys. | 23:36 |
| VRe | timeless: I think the software will start to rock sooner than later - now the same teachings should be applied to other areas aswell | 23:36 |
| pauliukas | How can I install OS 2007/8/whatever hacker/cracker edition? | 23:37 |
| timeless | the sofware processes still need a lot of work, but yes, we'd love to see useful innovation wrt hardware design | 23:37 |
| mgedmin | google results for os2007he don't seem to point to the official page | 23:38 |
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| VRe | I was thinking that the 3rd device could be worth actually buying when I saw 770 - got that more or less right. 3rd gen is usually where the device starts to be stable enough for massmarket | 23:38 |
| * mgedmin is waiting for a science-fictiony hard resizable screens | 23:38 | |
| Tak | anybody using xchat plugins on the device? | 23:39 |
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| Lariso | ok even with #!/bin/bash fixed the ui does nothing when i click | 23:39 |
| Lariso | i assume i'm able to just run a shell script as a command just like a compiled app would | 23:40 |
| VRe | btw, is the date/time dialog/elements as hard to use still with the new maemo as with old (just check gpe..) | 23:40 |
| czr | Lariso, you launching it with just the script name or with multiple parts with spaces in between? | 23:40 |
| Lariso | just the script name | 23:40 |
| czr | at least back in 770 days, the desktop file didn't support spaces | 23:40 |
| Lariso | hmm | 23:40 |
| czr | no sh in front of it? | 23:40 |
| Tak | ah, plugin support is disabled :-( | 23:40 |
| Lariso | no | 23:40 |
| mgedmin | Lariso: is the .sh file executable? | 23:40 |
| Lariso | Exec=/usr/local/bin/vpn3.sh | 23:41 |
| Lariso | and yeah, 755 i think | 23:41 |
| czr | hmm. add some echos into some file in /tmp/ to see whether the script is run at all | 23:41 |
| VRe | czr: and everything had to be installed under some obscure subdirectory.. | 23:41 |
| czr | VRe, /var/install infact. was trying to find out the proper new directory to install just today ;-) | 23:42 |
| czr | kind of funny how none of the maemo.org docs actually mentions anything about the proper directiories to install into now. | 23:42 |
| VRe | czr: you have been away long.. | 23:42 |
| czr | VRe, yes. I tried to get out, and each time they keep on pulling me back in. | 23:43 |
| VRe | czr: it's debian defaults.. ./configure --prefix=/usr | 23:43 |
| czr | VRe, well. I know now. | 23:43 |
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| Lariso | does a service need to be restarted whenever i change a desktop file or will it take effect immediately | 23:44 |
| t_s_o | hmm, maybe i should just regard my wsod 770 as a expensive paper weight and look for a price drop on the N800 now that the N810 is out? | 23:44 |
| VRe | The new menu seems to be quite big by looking the pics, I hope it'll handle nice those 40 programs I have installed so I don't need to scroll around | 23:44 |
| czr | btw, any nokians want to hint what should I call the application installer component in bora? Application Installer, Application Manager, or Application manager? the docs are contradictory | 23:44 |
| mgedmin | the n810 won't be sold before november, but otoh there already was a n800 price drop | 23:44 |
| timeless | eh? | 23:44 |
| timeless | Application manager | 23:44 |
| _Monkey | well, Application manager is maemo's GUI over apt | 23:44 |
| timeless | but what do you mean call? | 23:45 |
| czr | refer to. in text. | 23:45 |
| timeless | exactly as i wrote | 23:45 |
| timeless | note the lowercase m | 23:45 |
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| czr | I did note :-) | 23:45 |
| t_s_o | well i have yet to see the local web shops that carry the N800 display any kind of price drop... | 23:45 |
| czr | thanks | 23:45 |
| timeless | and i blame roope and the rest of Nokia style for the insane spelling/case | 23:45 |
| * timeless washes hands | 23:45 | |
| czr | timeless, there are still some docs which use Application Installer too. | 23:45 |
| czr | 3.2 ones. | 23:45 |
| timeless | czr: file bugs | 23:46 |
| timeless | (seriously) | 23:46 |
| timeless | i mean, there's no harm | 23:46 |
| timeless | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400000 | 23:46 |
| * timeless filed that one | 23:46 | |
| czr | I'm collecting a list of stuff in the various docs and will submit that.. via.. other channels. detest using bugzilla for each small bug | 23:46 |
| timeless | sure it's a dupe, not my fault, that's life | 23:46 |
| czr | nice number :-) | 23:47 |
| timeless | thanks :) | 23:47 |
| Lariso | ooh it is running the script | 23:47 |
| timeless | i was supposed to be 399998, i messed up the math and the bug i wanted was 400002 :( | 23:47 |
| Lariso | "/tmp/foobar" exists | 23:47 |
| pauliukas | "The same way it works in 2007, it integrates with the system /usr/bin/browser, you can still switch back to Opera (8.0 in the case of 2006, instead of 8.5 on 2007) at any time." How? | 23:47 |
| czr | timeless, 400k is so much more.. convenient to remember :-) | 23:48 |
| timeless | pauliukas: when it works, there's a set engine menu | 23:48 |
| timeless | when it doesn't work, you can edit ~/.browser and fix hidden=1 | 23:48 |
| timeless | and then run the browser to see the menu | 23:48 |
| pauliukas | See, that's the problem it doesn't | 23:48 |
| timeless | (won't do anything useful if you use os2008) | 23:48 |
| pauliukas | And I uninstalled it. | 23:48 |
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| timeless | quit the browser | 23:48 |
| pauliukas | okay. | 23:48 |
| timeless | pull out sed/perl, fix ~/.browser to have hidden=1 | 23:49 |
| timeless | install microb again | 23:49 |
| timeless | the logic behind that magic is beyond me | 23:49 |
| * czr wishes bugs like this would exist: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2114 | 23:49 | |
| pauliukas | But it will probably give me the same error. | 23:49 |
| czr | wouldn't even. | 23:49 |
| pauliukas | http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8871/photo82bl1.jpg | 23:49 |
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| Lariso | it works!! :D | 23:50 |
| czr | Lariso, yay | 23:50 |
| timeless | pauliukas: load "about:" | 23:50 |
| timeless | what does it say? | 23:50 |
| Lariso | i think it needed to run itself as root | 23:50 |
| pauliukas | Two seconds. Reinstalling it right now as you recommended. | 23:50 |
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| Lariso | so now i can browse my upnp server from remote vpn | 23:51 |
| Lariso | now if i could only get my video transcoder working properly.. | 23:52 |
| timeless | czr: post a patch? | 23:53 |
| czr | you serious? :-) | 23:54 |
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| czr | it's a 3 character fix :-) | 23:54 |
| timeless | czr: typos happen | 23:54 |
| timeless | patches are unambiguous | 23:55 |
| czr | well, it's not going to be fixed for chinook | 23:55 |
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| czr | that much I know | 23:55 |
| m-vo | czr, it will probably take you more text to describe the change than the patch will take. | 23:55 |
| timeless | plus, people should learn o query for patches | 23:55 |
| * czr sighs | 23:55 | |
| timeless | (and to post them) | 23:55 |
| * sp3000 filed and patched that already | 23:55 | |
| timeless | heh | 23:55 |
| timeless | hi sp3000 | 23:56 |
| m-vo | czr, what's it about, AppLiCation ManAger naming? | 23:56 |
| czr | m-vo, run-standalone.sh bug | 23:56 |
| m-vo | Oh, right, I just looked at it. The mere existence of run-standalone.sh is a bug. | 23:56 |
| czr | one could extend that thought to cover a lot of other stuff as well.. | 23:57 |
| pauliukas | timeless: The error is looping non-stop. | 23:57 |
| pauliukas | No way to enter in aboit: | 23:57 |
| pauliukas | *about | 23:57 |
| timeless | pauliukas: kill -9 browser | 23:57 |
| timeless | open a terminal | 23:57 |
| timeless | /usr/bin/browser --url=about: | 23:58 |
| pauliukas | let me SSH in. | 23:58 |
| pauliukas | 2 sec. | 23:58 |
| timeless | /usr/bin/browser --url=about: --engine=microb | 23:58 |
| timeless | /usr/bin/browser --url=about: --engine=opera | 23:58 |
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| pauliukas | Okay... | 23:58 |
| pauliukas | It loaded the about page. | 23:58 |
| pauliukas | What am I looking in it? | 23:59 |
| timeless | i dunno, is it opera or microb? :) | 23:59 |
| pauliukas | Didn't the about thing specify the engine? | 23:59 |
| timeless | about: doesn't | 23:59 |
| pauliukas | oh I see. | 23:59 |
| timeless | --engine does, i don't know which you used | 23:59 |
| pauliukas | MicroB. | 23:59 |
| _Monkey | microb is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007) | 23:59 |
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