| timeless | ignore _monkey, that's a reasonable response | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| *** thejapanesegeek has quit IRC | 00:00 | |
| pauliukas | oh this is funny. | 00:00 |
| pauliukas | It works nicely as root. | 00:00 |
| timeless | ok, open settings and check your homepage? | 00:00 |
| pauliukas | So probably a permissions problem? | 00:00 |
| timeless | could be | 00:00 |
| * timeless shrugs | 00:00 | |
| pauliukas | How can I set the default engine to Opera? | 00:01 |
| timeless | app menu>set engine | 00:01 |
| pauliukas | neat | 00:01 |
| pauliukas | ah. good old' opera. | 00:02 |
| timeless | i'd like to know what's wrong w/ microb | 00:02 |
| timeless | please let me know when you have time to investigate | 00:02 |
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| pauliukas | Well, how could I help you? | 00:03 |
| r2d2rogers | pauliukas, timeless talking aboutthe repeating error alert when it can't get toe a page for example? | 00:03 |
| timeless | yes | 00:03 |
| r2d2rogers | I see that also | 00:03 |
| timeless | cd /usr/lib/micro* | 00:03 |
| r2d2rogers | 770, latest 2006 | 00:03 |
| timeless | find . -type f|xargs ls -l | 00:03 |
| pauliukas | same here | 00:03 |
| pauliukas | timeless: Want me to pastebin that or what? | 00:04 |
| timeless | does the output seem reasonable? | 00:04 |
| timeless | sure | 00:04 |
| pauliukas | all owned by root | 00:04 |
| timeless | readable? | 00:04 |
| timeless | ownership is expected | 00:04 |
| pauliukas | yeah. | 00:04 |
| timeless | if files aren't readable, that's a problem | 00:04 |
| r2d2rogers | big chunk scrolled.. | 00:04 |
| pauliukas | -rw-r--r-- | 00:04 |
| timeless | use > /tmp/something | 00:04 |
| pauliukas | That's readable, right? | 00:04 |
| timeless | yes | 00:04 |
| pauliukas | All files look about the same: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11972 Aug 10 16:51 ./libplc4.so | 00:05 |
| timeless | in microb (you can use --engine=microb --url=about:) try entering: | 00:05 |
| timeless | / | 00:05 |
| timeless | as the entire url and pressing enter/go | 00:05 |
| timeless | does it load? | 00:05 |
| r2d2rogers | all was readable in my scroll buffer | 00:05 |
| pauliukas | This is very weird. | 00:06 |
| onion | should microb work in 2007HE ? | 00:06 |
| r2d2rogers | yes | 00:06 |
| timeless | no | 00:06 |
| pauliukas | I now set Mozilla as the engine and it worked fine as non-root. | 00:06 |
| r2d2rogers | index of file:/// | 00:06 |
| timeless | well, rather, no idea if it works in 2007he | 00:06 |
| timeless | someone wanted me to post an annoucement of a specially made version for 2007he | 00:06 |
| r2d2rogers | was working fairly well for me last week | 00:06 |
| pauliukas | Maybe executing under root made it fix the permissions | 00:06 |
| pauliukas | ? | 00:06 |
| timeless | which to me seemed both pointless | 00:06 |
| timeless | and problematic | 00:06 |
| timeless | since it actually had obvious bugs when i tested it | 00:06 |
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| timeless | anyway, if the normal microb for 2007 works on 2007he, it'd be nice to know | 00:07 |
| timeless | i'd love to kill the project | 00:07 |
| onion | gives "internal error" | 00:07 |
| timeless | ok :) | 00:07 |
| r2d2rogers | I only see the popup alert in cases where it can't get to the page | 00:07 |
| timeless | if you want, ii have a repo url for a repo w/ a port for 2007he | 00:07 |
| pauliukas | Actually, the speed isn't too bad. | 00:07 |
| timeless | r2d2: yeah yeah, hold on | 00:07 |
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| pauliukas | If this doesn't crash like Opera does, I'll be a happy camper. | 00:08 |
| onion | that would be nice | 00:08 |
| r2d2rogers | timeless, I think I was using the 2006 version of mircob in the 2007 HE | 00:08 |
| timeless | can you guys try clicking in turn | 00:08 |
| r2d2rogers | no rush | 00:08 |
| pauliukas | clicking in turn? | 00:08 |
| timeless | usr, lib, microb-engine, chrome, toolkit, content, global | 00:08 |
| r2d2rogers | yup | 00:08 |
| timeless | ^ one after another as they appear :) | 00:08 |
| timeless | sorry, typing takes time,... | 00:08 |
| pauliukas | Why not an absolute path instead? | 00:09 |
| timeless | because i want to test things piecemeal | 00:09 |
| pauliukas | cd /usr/lib/microb-engine/chrome/toolkit/content/global/ | 00:09 |
| pauliukas | oh... | 00:09 |
| timeless | if you're getting an error, i want to verify things step by step | 00:09 |
| pauliukas | I'm not getting errors anymore, heh. | 00:09 |
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| r2d2rogers | reopening the browser... got impatient | 00:10 |
| czr | night -> | 00:10 |
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| czr | sp3000, I didn't thank you, did I? thanks :-) | 00:11 |
| sp3000 | np :) | 00:11 |
| r2d2rogers | timeless, got to global, no errors | 00:12 |
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| timeless | click netError.xhtml | 00:12 |
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| r2d2rogers | loaded, "Cannot Complete Request" | 00:13 |
| timeless | that's fine | 00:13 |
| r2d2rogers | the normal error screeen | 00:13 |
| r2d2rogers | right | 00:13 |
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| timeless | ok, try loading somethinglistawful.kahdkjsahdskjahdk | 00:13 |
| timeless | what happens? | 00:13 |
| r2d2rogers | <G> | 00:14 |
| r2d2rogers | did the equivilent | 00:14 |
| r2d2rogers | <G> | 00:14 |
| r2d2rogers | got the pop up | 00:14 |
| timeless | btw, there's an osso_screenshot_tool somewhere, sp3000 might know where | 00:14 |
| timeless | what *precisely* does it say? | 00:14 |
| timeless | is it really file; ? | 00:14 |
| pauliukas | Hmmm | 00:14 |
| r2d2rogers | "Address type is unknown or unsupported ..." give the URL to the path we just clicked peicemeail | 00:14 |
| pauliukas | Anyone got Flash 9 working on the 770? | 00:14 |
| timeless | iirc we tested it internally, it works | 00:15 |
| r2d2rogers | file:///usr/lib/microb-engine/chrome/toolkit/content/global/netEWrror.xhtml | 00:15 |
| timeless | netEW? | 00:15 |
| r2d2rogers | my bad | 00:15 |
| * timeless frowns | 00:15 | |
| timeless | i don't get it | 00:15 |
| r2d2rogers | should have rechecked before hitting enter... not after | 00:15 |
| pauliukas | timeless: How about for people expternally? | 00:15 |
| timeless | we can't legally distribute it | 00:16 |
| timeless | buy an n800 | 00:16 |
| timeless | copy the file | 00:16 |
| pauliukas | Who said it has to be legal. | 00:16 |
| timeless | the instructions are mostly on my blog | 00:16 |
| timeless | minus one detail | 00:16 |
| timeless | the plugins dir is slightly different | 00:16 |
| r2d2rogers | except for the extra "W" that's it | 00:16 |
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| timeless | it's something like /usr/bin/browser/plugins/2007/ ? | 00:16 |
| * timeless can't remeember that detail :( | 00:16 | |
| r2d2rogers | hmm but the ok didn't cause a repeat this time.. | 00:16 |
| timeless | strace would tell you if strace worked | 00:16 |
| r2d2rogers | it went to google for a google search | 00:17 |
| pauliukas | Neat. | 00:17 |
| *** pdz has quit IRC | 00:17 | |
| pauliukas | My favorite russian cracksite has a zip for Flash9 on the 770. | 00:17 |
| pauliukas | With the so and instructions | 00:17 |
| timeless | heh | 00:17 |
| pauliukas | I'm just kidding. | 00:17 |
| r2d2rogers | timeless, the suggested nonsense pattern does cause the repeating pop up | 00:17 |
| timeless | instructions would havev been in russian :) | 00:18 |
| pauliukas | timeless: Too bad. I can read a bit of it. | 00:18 |
| pauliukas | Having close russian friends open up a world of possibilities. | 00:18 |
| pauliukas | That's all I'm going to say. | 00:18 |
| *** thejapanesegeek has quit IRC | 00:19 | |
| timeless | hrm | 00:19 |
| timeless | can you get strace working? | 00:19 |
| pauliukas | MUAHAHAHAH | 00:19 |
| timeless | it'd be moderately interesting to know whether or not the file is being checked | 00:19 |
| pauliukas | I found a forum with instructions | 00:19 |
| pauliukas | YES! | 00:19 |
| pauliukas | Yes. Download for libflash is working. | 00:19 |
| pauliukas | I'm in business now | 00:19 |
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| timeless | sorry, re legal, i'm a nokian, i can't do or suggest things that aren't | 00:20 |
| pauliukas | I'm not asking you to. | 00:20 |
| timeless | and the people who make os2007he while strange are still bound by law | 00:20 |
| pauliukas | I just showed my joy. | 00:20 |
| timeless | so no flash9 | 00:20 |
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| pauliukas | I'm wondering how the performance is, though. Flash 6 is pathetic on the 770. | 00:21 |
| timeless | but you can legally buy an n800 for 240USD and get flash9 | 00:21 |
| doublec | I'm having problems with the microb build instructions on the garage site - is anyone able to give me some pointers? | 00:21 |
| timeless | 770 had flash7 not flash6 | 00:21 |
| pauliukas | Yeah? Tigerdirect sold the 800 for $450 or so | 00:21 |
| timeless | doublec: hi | 00:21 |
| pauliukas | And the 770 for $150 | 00:21 |
| doublec | hi timeless | 00:21 |
| timeless | doublec: what's failing? | 00:21 |
| timeless | http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n800-internet-tablet/q/loc/101/204055141.html | 00:22 |
| timeless | Our Price: $239.99 | 00:22 |
| doublec | I'm running in scratchbox. I have the svn checked out. changed to microb-engine/microb-engine. fakeroot apt-get build-dep microb-engine gives me: | 00:22 |
| timeless | Shipping: FREE | 00:22 |
| pauliukas | I'm in Canada. | 00:22 |
| pauliukas | Doesn't work that easily. | 00:22 |
| doublec | unable to find source package for microb-engine | 00:22 |
| pauliukas | TigerDirect is like the only big computer stuff distributor here. | 00:22 |
| timeless | pauliukas: you need a friend in NY or Detroit | 00:22 |
| pauliukas | timeless: No, man, no... | 00:22 |
| pauliukas | A friend in Moscow | 00:22 |
| pauliukas | :-P | 00:22 |
| timeless | i don't think we sell in russia at all | 00:22 |
| pauliukas | Then you could get a stolen 800 | 00:22 |
| timeless | which is ... clever in its own right | 00:22 |
| pauliukas | Who said you sold to them? | 00:23 |
| pauliukas | As sad as it is, it's probably true. | 00:23 |
| timeless | doublec: err | 00:23 |
| timeless | gah | 00:23 |
| timeless | apt sucks | 00:23 |
| doublec | if I ignore that and do dpkg-buildpackage I get libidl-dev bc libcairo2-dev as missing build dependancies | 00:23 |
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| timeless | sp3000: can you help doublec work aroudn apt being stupid | 00:23 |
| doublec | should I have something in my apt source? | 00:23 |
| timeless | doublec: libidl-dev is in the microb sources | 00:24 |
| * suihkulokki strangles timeless with yum | 00:24 | |
| *** NickDe has quit IRC | 00:24 | |
| suihkulokki | ..now that would be a *slow* death | 00:24 |
| lardman | yayayay, framebuffer access works from the dsp :) | 00:24 |
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| timeless | doublec: | 00:24 |
| timeless | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/mozilla/trunk/libidl/ | 00:24 |
| * lardman now has a yellow screen | 00:25 | |
| pauliukas | lol | 00:25 |
| timeless | go into that directory and play w/ debian/rules | 00:25 |
| timeless | that'll get you libidl-dev, i hope | 00:25 |
| doublec | ok, thanks | 00:25 |
| * Tak "Ruby Interface Loaded." | 00:25 | |
| timeless | you should have that from your checkout | 00:25 |
| * Tak laughs evilly | 00:25 | |
| timeless | timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test is just a cross reference | 00:25 |
| doublec | yes, I have it | 00:25 |
| suihkulokki | lardman: cool | 00:26 |
| timeless | bc you need to find a repository | 00:26 |
| m-vo | doublec, I have a 'orrible script to solve your problem. Let me dig it out. | 00:26 |
| doublec | thanks m-vo | 00:27 |
| lardman | suihkulokki: going to try piping mplayer output directly to the screen via dsp now | 00:27 |
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| timeless | i have no idea about libcairo-dev, | 00:28 |
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| m-vo | doublec, https://garage.maemo.org/svn/sardine/trunk/apt-installbuilddeps | 00:28 |
| pyhimys | damn, no new firmware yet | 00:28 |
| t_s_o | ok, just watched som videos and holy smokes that 2008 ui is sweet! | 00:28 |
| t_s_o | big, finger focued menus with big scroll arrows and all. ok, i dont care if i have to sell my soul for this one, i want it and i want it bad! | 00:29 |
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| pauliukas | lol | 00:29 |
| m-vo | doublec, I was mostly guessing what your problem was. If the script confuses you, maybe I misunderstood. | 00:29 |
| timeless | i'll take your soul, you drive a really weak bargain | 00:29 |
| lopz | re | 00:30 |
| doublec | thanks m-vo, looking at it now | 00:30 |
| doublec | ok, now I need to find a repostory with flex in it | 00:33 |
| timeless | err | 00:34 |
| timeless | what wans flex? | 00:34 |
| doublec | libidl-dev | 00:34 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that libidl-dev is in the microb sources | 00:34 |
| * timeless sighs | 00:34 | |
| timeless | oh brother | 00:34 |
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| timeless | yeah, have fun | 00:34 |
| doublec | yeah, apt dependancies are fun :) | 00:34 |
| timeless | did i mention that apt sucks? | 00:34 |
| doublec | once or twice | 00:34 |
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| timeless | it needs to be repeated :( | 00:35 |
| sp3000 | heh shoot the messenger | 00:35 |
| sp3000 | timeless: did you get response re versions to the 693 thing | 00:36 |
| m-vo | Heh, there are sucky parts in apt, and the whole thing reads like a prototype (which it probably is), but in general it's good. | 00:36 |
| timeless | was that the bugs.maemo.org bug? | 00:36 |
| timeless | if so, yes | 00:36 |
| sp3000 | I guess I have a maemo2.2 test package, not that I have anything to test such a thing with | 00:37 |
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| m-vo | it doesn't handle broken repositories as well you might want, but then again, repositories should not be broken. | 00:37 |
| onion | hih. mapper almost builds under chinook | 00:37 |
| timeless | m-vo: shoulds are nice, they're also unrealistic | 00:37 |
| alterego | Crikey .. | 00:37 |
| alterego | I just looked at the Python API for libosso .. It's horrible. | 00:38 |
| m-vo | Maybe for Nokia/maemo but not for normal people. | 00:38 |
| sp3000 | timeless: I take it I fell out of cc then | 00:38 |
| timeless | sp3000: i'll have to figure out which thing you mean | 00:38 |
| Tak | alterego: got xchat-ruby and my plugin going on 770 ;-) | 00:38 |
| alterego | Tak, fancy :) | 00:39 |
| timeless | oh | 00:39 |
| timeless | no, that didn't get resolved | 00:39 |
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| alterego | Tak, did you use one of my packages? | 00:39 |
| sp3000 | k | 00:39 |
| timeless | lemme finnish dealing w/ osol | 00:39 |
| timeless | finish | 00:39 |
| timeless | whichever | 00:39 |
| *** pdz-__ is now known as pdz | 00:39 | |
| _Monkey | whichever is the current grouper | 00:39 |
| Tak | yeah, I used all of your packages | 00:39 |
| * timeless blames those annoyhing finns | 00:39 | |
| alterego | Cool, :) | 00:39 |
| timeless | _monkey forget whichever | 00:39 |
| _Monkey | timeless: I forgot whichever | 00:39 |
| timeless | _monkey whichever is <reply> | 00:39 |
| _Monkey | OK, timeless. | 00:39 |
| Tak | xchat-ruby on top of that, ruby plugin on top of that | 00:39 |
| alterego | Nice. | 00:39 |
| m-vo | I just have to go on a bit about apt suckage... | 00:39 |
| Esworp | monkey, ukmp | 00:40 |
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| Esworp | monkey, ukmp? | 00:40 |
| m-vo | apt-get is not good at configuration management: "Give me all -dbg packages corresponding to libfoo and all its dependencies". | 00:40 |
| ||cw | Esworp: it's name starts with an _ | 00:40 |
| Esworp | oh, duh. | 00:40 |
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| m-vo | It is also missing the "satisfy this Depends: line" operation. | 00:41 |
| _Monkey | okay, m-vo. | 00:41 |
| Esworp | _Monkey, ukmp? | 00:41 |
| _Monkey | ukmp is a Media Player, available for download at http://maemo.org/downloads/product/ukmp | 00:41 |
| m-vo | It used to suck at removing unneeded packages, but that seems to have changed. | 00:41 |
| timeless | google says tha unneeded is not a word | 00:42 |
| timeless | i happen to agree | 00:42 |
| timeless | http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=voEWR576Hqb8wwGOqayKCA&sig2=WFDaF_IvAAYAxI8INjHv0g&q=http://www.answers.com/unnecessary%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNFq2J-tnRZGVxjJsO9PfCxZPL_mug | 00:42 |
| * timeless sighs | 00:42 | |
| m-vo | Heh, don't try to side-track the discussion. timeless, you are a pedant! :-) | 00:43 |
| timeless | i wonder if i can get a newer laptop if i can prove to BI that my t key doesn't work reliably | 00:43 |
| m-vo | and "tha" isn' t a word either :-P | 00:43 |
| timeless | m-vo: see followup. i'm one response ahead of you :( | 00:43 |
| m-vo | Excuses, excuses... | 00:44 |
| timeless | oh wierd | 00:44 |
| m-vo | anyway, where was I? | 00:44 |
| timeless | i'm seeeing a nokia add | 00:44 |
| timeless | from ansi vanyoki | 00:44 |
| timeless | s/add$/ad | 00:44 |
| timeless | from nokia hq in espoo | 00:44 |
| timeless | and please don't expect me to be able to spell his name correctly | 00:44 |
| Esworp | has anyone else had trouble with ossocpu? the lil cpu graph applet? | 00:44 |
| timeless | i don't speak Finnish | 00:45 |
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| m-vo | Then, of course, the libapt-pkg API is C++ from the 70ties. | 00:45 |
| Esworp | i install it, but never shows up when i turn it 'on' | 00:45 |
| m-vo | should be "vanjoki" I think. | 00:46 |
| Esworp | it worked fine before i updated | 00:46 |
| timeless | Anssi Vanjoki | 00:46 |
| drcoffee | Q - does anyone know of an easy way to adjust (or turn off) the key repeat when using BT keyboards? I have tried xset770, but to no avail. | 00:46 |
| timeless | they stuck his name into a graphic for a few seconds | 00:46 |
| * timeless wonders why he's on TV | 00:47 | |
| timeless | Digitali Convergensi | 00:47 |
| timeless | sp3000: is he in our management chain? :o | 00:47 |
| timeless | heh, Nokia Music Store | 00:47 |
| timeless | they didn't translate that | 00:48 |
| m-vo | There is a verkkokauppa ad for Nokia phones that show that you can get your name engraved in them, and one of the names is Olli-Pekka. | 00:48 |
| Esworp | _Monkey, media player? | 00:48 |
| _Monkey | esworp: wish i knew | 00:48 |
| timeless | m-vo: Olli and Pekka both seem to be fairly common | 00:48 |
| timeless | is that interesting? | 00:48 |
| timeless | which reminds me, i need to publish a comment into a bug :( | 00:49 |
| m-vo | Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo, the Nokia CEO. | 00:49 |
| sp3000 | timeless: what this guy? http://www.nokia.com/A4126347 | 00:49 |
| timeless | sp3000: he's on tv now | 00:49 |
| timeless | mtv3 | 00:49 |
| timeless | um | 00:49 |
| timeless | i can't reach nokia.com | 00:49 |
| timeless | because nokia *fscks* w/ dns | 00:49 |
| timeless | anyone have a mirror? :) | 00:49 |
| timeless | he's blond :) | 00:50 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:50 |
| timeless | oh good | 00:50 |
| timeless | there's someone speaking English | 00:50 |
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| timeless | oh god | 00:50 |
| Thanatermesis | mierda conexion... | 00:50 |
| timeless | they're using Holocaus imagery | 00:50 |
| * timeless sighs | 00:51 | |
| timeless | i need a keyboard where the t key works | 00:51 |
| timeless | oh no | 00:51 |
| timeless | 42 | 00:51 |
| Esworp | lookd like it does. :P | 00:51 |
| timeless | they just claimed that they have a solution, so they just need to find the problem | 00:51 |
| timeless | sp3000: got a tv, or did you decide against paying the tv license? | 00:52 |
| timeless | s/the/for the/ | 00:52 |
| infobot | timeless meant: sp3000: got a tv, or did you decide against paying for the tv license? | 00:52 |
| timeless | good bot | 00:52 |
| sp3000 | I have one | 00:52 |
| timeless | turn on mtv3, he's on now | 00:52 |
| sp3000 | indeed | 00:52 |
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| Tb0n3 | well | 00:54 |
| Tb0n3 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/2007/10/17/the-nokia-n810-internet-tablet/ | 00:54 |
| Tb0n3 | :D | 00:54 |
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| timeless | err, they showed off the swedish keylayout? | 00:55 |
| timeless | why? | 00:55 |
| timeless | => sp3000 | 00:55 |
| *** Esworp has quit IRC | 00:55 | |
| timeless | http://www.internettablettalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/004.jpg | 00:55 |
| Mikho | swedish? | 00:55 |
| sp3000 | shruggery | 00:55 |
| timeless | it's not English | 00:56 |
| timeless | I'm assuming it isn't Finnish | 00:56 |
| Mikho | looks finnish enough to me | 00:56 |
| sp3000 | probably the same | 00:56 |
| timeless | unless ao is really tha important | 00:56 |
| roope | it's finnish. | 00:56 |
| m-vo | but not the end! | 00:56 |
| timeless | it's the same layout | 00:57 |
| timeless | but why would you show off either? | 00:57 |
| timeless | this was a launch in sf.ca.us., no? | 00:57 |
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| sp3000 | it's för metäl döts! | 00:57 |
| sp3000 | \m/. | 00:57 |
| timeless | sp3000: and for those of us unicode challenged? | 00:58 |
| sp3000 | it's for metal dots. | 00:58 |
| roope | perhaps it is promoting the fact that also other languages than eng work. :) | 00:58 |
| timeless | they do? | 00:58 |
| timeless | last i checked they didn't :) | 00:58 |
| sp3000 | aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_umlaut | 00:58 |
| roope | well yes, they do. | 00:58 |
| timeless | certainly, if you come to the US w/ the Map(*cough*) applet, you'll have a real hard time | 00:58 |
| timeless | given that you won't be able to get it to speak to you in Miles | 00:59 |
| timeless | it seems we paid extra to make sure you couldn't use Miles if you visited the US and didn't speak English | 00:59 |
| roope | The metric system rules the world anyway. | 00:59 |
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| timeless | because French speaking Canadians, Spanish speaking Mexicans, and German/Russian speakers would never want to visit the US | 01:00 |
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| roope | Royale with Cheese. -> | 01:00 |
| * timeless notes that nordic denizens tend to be able to speak English, so it's not a problem for them | 01:00 | |
| timeless | eh? | 01:01 |
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| doublec | the 810 looks nice. what are the chances of it being available in australia/new zealand | 01:04 |
| timeless | doublec: nill | 01:04 |
| doublec | I guessed :) | 01:04 |
| timeless | pick it up the next time you visit stateside | 01:04 |
| timeless | doublec: we pay to localize in Russian | 01:04 |
| timeless | but we don't sell in Russia | 01:04 |
| doublec | hehe | 01:04 |
| timeless | we don't pay to localize for Ausies/Kiwis | 01:04 |
| ||cw | does AU even need localisation? | 01:05 |
| ||cw | other than timezone... | 01:05 |
| ||cw | what symbol does AU use for their dollar? | 01:06 |
| timeless | technically word choice in Australia is a mix between US and GB | 01:06 |
| lardman | $ | 01:06 |
| jumpula | they have to have words like outback etc | 01:06 |
| timeless | so arguably you should try to get words right | 01:07 |
| lardman | arvo = afternoon | 01:07 |
| lardman | I'm quite sure the australians can understand English though | 01:07 |
| jumpula | arvo in finnish means value :) | 01:07 |
| timeless | otoh, we can't get the words right for US or GB | 01:07 |
| ||cw | timeless: what kind of words are we talking about? | 01:07 |
| timeless | so why start w/ Australia? | 01:07 |
| timeless | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences | 01:08 |
| ||cw | for most apps, the only difference between US and GB is the symbol for money | 01:08 |
| timeless | search for Austral in that article | 01:08 |
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| sp3000 | timeless: maybe one of them would just match by au by accident :P | 01:08 |
| timeless | ||cw: not on our device | 01:08 |
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| sp3000 | s/by // | 01:08 |
| infobot | sp3000 meant: timeless: maybe one of them would just match au by accident :P | 01:08 |
| lardman | spelling things with a z and without a u are very annoying though | 01:08 |
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| timeless | lardman: or the reverse | 01:08 |
| timeless | thankfully we have a solution | 01:09 |
| timeless | our map app says catalog should be spelled w/o the ue for GB | 01:09 |
| lardman | everyone learn Finnish? | 01:09 |
| timeless | because consistency is taboo | 01:09 |
| timeless | lardman: Turn to horizontal | 01:09 |
| timeless | Turn to vertical | 01:09 |
| timeless | the only good thing about Finnish is that it shows how piss poor the English was to begin with | 01:09 |
| Jiten_ | interesting, python2.5-hildon contains module called hildonglade that seems to do what is needed to hildonize a glade file. It's just rather light on documentation. | 01:10 |
| timeless | jiten_: people are trying to use glade heavily for the future | 01:10 |
| timeless | which is a good thing, because the gtk C code i've seen is awful | 01:10 |
| * sp3000 contemplates turning to horizontal | 01:10 | |
| ||cw | ok, so if US and GB aren't consistent, why worry about AU? most poeple have no problem with alternate spellings and are not confused | 01:10 |
| timeless | sp3000: if the image is horizontal, do nothing | 01:10 |
| timeless | if the image is vertical, do the wrong thing | 01:10 |
| ||cw | seems like a silly reason not to sell the device in that country | 01:11 |
| timeless | ||cw: having paid to localize it for Russian | 01:11 |
| Jiten_ | I'm building a new gui (porting qt application) and building the gtk structure in code gets old rather fast so I started looking again. | 01:11 |
| timeless | doesn't it seem sillier not to sell it in Russia? | 01:11 |
| * sp3000 contemplates turning horizontal himself, that is | 01:11 | |
| ||cw | there are lots of non-russians that speak russian | 01:11 |
| timeless | ||cw: i think there are more Russian speakers in Russia than there are... | 01:11 |
| ||cw | russia is an oddball country, AU is not very different from US and GB | 01:12 |
| timeless | russian speakers elsewhere who would buy teh device | 01:12 |
| ||cw | economy wise | 01:12 |
| Jiten_ | Well, at least there is the source. | 01:12 |
| timeless | s/teh/the/ | 01:12 |
| infobot | timeless meant: russian speakers elsewhere who would buy the device | 01:12 |
| Jiten_ | maybe I'll figure out how to use that | 01:12 |
| ||cw | selling products in russia, or in any country for that matter, is more of the political matter | 01:12 |
| timeless | if by politics you mean internal corporate, sure | 01:13 |
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| x2 | hey guys | 01:13 |
| ||cw | as well as free market politics | 01:13 |
| ||cw | it's hard for a non-russian company to sell stuff in russia | 01:13 |
| timeless | i'm fairly cerain that doesn't enter it | 01:13 |
| x2 | oh the 770, how do you get teh software kb to some back after using a bt kb? | 01:13 |
| x2 | im using the os2007 port now and thi sis the only thing bothering me so far | 01:14 |
| timeless | turning off bluetooth doesn't work? | 01:14 |
| x2 | no | 01:14 |
| x2 | it makes no sense :/ | 01:14 |
| timeless | www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/About_Nokia/Press/Press_Events/zz_New_Potential/Russia_backgrounder.pd | 01:14 |
| timeless | f | 01:14 |
| x2 | I dont have it connected and the software one still wont come up | 01:14 |
| timeless | Nokia Phones Go on the Back Shelf - Kommersant Moscow | 01:15 |
| timeless | Euroset management has ordered Nokia phones to be sold as cheaply as ... the dispute with Euroset may cost Nokia its leading position on the Russian market. | 01:15 |
| timeless | www.kommersant.com/p699966/r_1/Nokia_Phones_Go_on_the_Back_Shelf/ | 01:15 |
| timeless | seems fairly clear that Nokia sells in Russia | 01:15 |
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| timeless | although, perhaps not at the price point they want :) | 01:15 |
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| x2 | any ideas> | 01:17 |
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| x2 | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/os2007on770/ | 01:17 |
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| x2 | tahts what I have installed currently | 01:17 |
| SLi | I've been thinking maybe I should try to write a better sw keyboard, IMO using qwerty in tap screen is just horrible. Perhaps something like one hand dvorak, I don't know yet. | 01:17 |
| x2 | hrm | 01:17 |
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| Mikho | probably not worth the effort, unless you know dvorak already | 01:18 |
| * lardman wonders why /sys/devices/platform/dsp/mmu was removed on the N800 | 01:18 | |
| SLi | Mikho, I know dvorak already, though not the one hand variant :P | 01:18 |
| SLi | Mikho, but I think putting letters used commonly together next to each other would make the sw keyb a lot more usable. | 01:19 |
| Mikho | ah, a live dvorak writer! | 01:19 |
| Mikho | yes, but unfortuately it's pretty language dependent | 01:20 |
| SLi | It took maybe 2 weeks to get used, now I use it regularly. | 01:20 |
| x2 | SLi, do you know how to bring up the software keyboard once its gone? | 01:20 |
| SLi | Yeah. | 01:20 |
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| SLi | x2, what? Gone? | 01:20 |
| x2 | When i click in a text field, it will not come up | 01:20 |
| x2 | This is asfter using a bt keyboard | 01:20 |
| x2 | i tried disabling bt and removing the hardware keyboard and got nowhere | 01:21 |
| SLi | Hm. Don't know about that. | 01:21 |
| x2 | :( | 01:21 |
| x2 | using the hacker edition on the 770 | 01:21 |
| SLi | Mikho, well, I'm a Finn, I write mostly Finnish and English with a slightly finnishized dvorak (mostly just adding åäö). If anyone's interested, I haven't found dvorak at least much faster than qwerty, but it's somehow a lot more comfortable for my wrists. | 01:22 |
| x2 | hmm | 01:22 |
| x2 | guess im screwed? | 01:22 |
| x2 | lol | 01:22 |
| SLi | Interesting problem. :P | 01:22 |
| x2 | i cant put 2006 on my mmc in 30 mins | 01:22 |
| x2 | = screwed | 01:23 |
| x2 | lol | 01:23 |
| disq | i'm looking for an easy way to use dnotify from python. inotify somehow doesn't work | 01:23 |
| Mikho | well looks like it has most of the vowels on the center row on thel left | 01:23 |
| SLi | Yes. | 01:23 |
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| Mikho | the finnish layout is actually pretty annoying sometimes | 01:24 |
| timeless | heh | 01:25 |
| SLi | You mean qwerty-fi or some variant of dvorak-fi? | 01:25 |
| x2 | is there a firmware list on maemo? | 01:25 |
| Mikho | it's hard to type ~, @, \ and ^ | 01:25 |
| timeless | x2: eh? | 01:25 |
| Mikho | on normal qwerty | 01:25 |
| x2 | like a list | 01:25 |
| timeless | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/index.xml | 01:26 |
| x2 | os06, hacker edition | 01:26 |
| x2 | are there more? | 01:26 |
| timeless | x2: Would you give an approximate mapping? | 01:26 |
| timeless | scroll there | 01:26 |
| SLi | The most annoying thing with dvorak-fi (or actually dvorak-se) is that they've changed it in X at least twice while I've been using it :P Now I use the latest dvorak-fi (it didn't change that much) and have an xmodmap file for all other environments I need to use to get the same layout. | 01:26 |
| timeless | that's the list i had at the time | 01:26 |
| x2 | thanks :) | 01:26 |
| SLi | Mikho, yeah, that's true. Dvorak doesn't help that... | 01:26 |
| timeless | from my perspective, he doesn't count | 01:27 |
| timeless | it's supposed to be equivalent to other os's | 01:27 |
| SLi | I guess one-hand dvorak wouldn't be a perfect keyboard for touch screens either. | 01:27 |
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| timeless | there's one image past the last 3.x i listed, but it's just a single kernel fix | 01:27 |
| x2 | ok | 01:28 |
| x2 | so, basically | 01:28 |
| Mikho | maybe I'll hack my keyboard handlers to type ^ and ~ with a single keypress | 01:28 |
| x2 | I have to run 06 on my 770 | 01:28 |
| x2 | or 07 hackers | 01:28 |
| timeless | or 05 | 01:28 |
| x2 | yea but bleh | 01:28 |
| timeless | there will be an 08 for n800 | 01:28 |
| x2 | argg | 01:29 |
| SLi | Another idea I've been playing with is teaching my n800 the original palm graffitis (which seem to usually work much better than normal letters, but the stupid system let someone patent using just one stroke for letters so nobody else uses that). | 01:29 |
| timeless | and the 770 backport of 2007 is being run on garage | 01:29 |
| x2 | I need to find out how to get my software keyboard back | 01:29 |
| x2 | I like hackers | 01:29 |
| timeless | they may do whatever they like | 01:29 |
| x2 | does anyone here use a mmc to boot off? | 01:29 |
| x2 | faster? | 01:29 |
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| SLi | x2, no, but I doubt it's faster. | 01:29 |
| Jiten_ | SLi: so they can't ship something that useful with the device? | 01:29 |
| x2 | ah | 01:29 |
| x2 | it says its 2x the speed so I was just wondering | 01:29 |
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| doublec | how often do you boot though? | 01:30 |
| SLi | Jiten_, yeah. | 01:30 |
| x2 | *overall system speed | 01:30 |
| doublec | so i imagine the speed hit is not a big deal | 01:30 |
| doublec | oh | 01:30 |
| timeless | doublec: i boot often | 01:30 |
| x2 | lol me too | 01:30 |
| timeless | just to show how slow boots can be | 01:30 |
| x2 | i do leave it on a lot though | 01:30 |
| doublec | haha | 01:30 |
| x2 | lol | 01:30 |
| x2 | no kidding | 01:30 |
| timeless | mine take well over 30s before i get the progress meter | 01:30 |
| timeless | and i have witnesses | 01:30 |
| timeless | lots of them, including sp3000 | 01:30 |
| timeless | and glazou | 01:31 |
| x2 | LOl | 01:31 |
| x2 | mine does too | 01:31 |
| x2 | hackers seems a bit slower | 01:31 |
| x2 | and more unstable | 01:31 |
| doublec | you should put a game in the bootup process to give people something to do during boot | 01:31 |
| x2 | ill try mmc boot tonight though | 01:31 |
| x2 | with it | 01:31 |
| x2 | lol | 01:31 |
| x2 | pacman! | 01:31 |
| _Monkey | i think pacman is even running slow | 01:31 |
| x2 | LOL :p | 01:31 |
| timeless | _monkey forget pacman | 01:31 |
| _Monkey | timeless: I forgot pacman | 01:31 |
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| timeless | _monkey pacman is <reply> | 01:31 |
| _Monkey | OK, timeless. | 01:31 |
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| x2 | YES! | 01:36 |
| x2 | i got it back lol | 01:36 |
| x2 | had to connect my bluetooth kb | 01:36 |
| SLi | Perhaps I should start by installing a qwerty soft-kb that logs what I type so I can think about optimizing the layout. | 01:36 |
| x2 | then disconnect | 01:36 |
| x2 | lol | 01:36 |
| SLi | I just don't like the idea of optimizing my keyboard layout so that my password is easy to type with it :P | 01:37 |
| x2 | :p | 01:37 |
| x2 | ill be back in here on the tablet in class | 01:37 |
| x2 | got class at 7 :/ | 01:37 |
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| doublec | i got libidl to build | 01:38 |
| doublec | I needed to follow the steps regarding flex here: http://www.scratchbox.org/wiki/Apophis-r4 | 01:38 |
| x2 | oh yea | 01:39 |
| x2 | is there any easy way to use ssl with xchat | 01:39 |
| x2 | I thought it was included with xchat but I dont see it listed anywhere | 01:40 |
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| alterego | x2 it's in the server editing dialog. | 01:42 |
| sp3000 | doublec: enjoying scratchbox eh ;) | 01:42 |
| doublec | oh yeah, having lots of fun :) | 01:42 |
| x2 | i cant scroll that down though | 01:42 |
| x2 | no scroll bar lol | 01:43 |
| x2 | i tabbed through it last time | 01:43 |
| alterego | :/ | 01:43 |
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| doublec | when hacking on the microb source, do you build/test in scratchbox all the time or in the host linux? | 01:55 |
| timeless | mixed | 01:56 |
| alterego | Only one SD slot?!?! | 01:56 |
| alterego | And it's min!??! | 01:57 |
| alterego | >:( | 01:57 |
| Jiten_ | is there a point to using miniSD when you could use microSD? | 01:58 |
| alterego | That's not the point. I would have expected dual ful SD/MMC slots like the N800 | 01:58 |
| Mikho | microsds are easier to misplace | 01:59 |
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| Jiten_ | Mikho: true, but you could fit 2 slots in the place of one miniSD... at least I'd think so. | 02:00 |
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| alterego | Oh, it does take SD cards .. | 02:00 |
| alterego | Stoopid thoughtfix. | 02:00 |
| doublec | what only has one SD slot? | 02:01 |
| alterego | Appearantly the sales package doesn't include a complimentary memory card :) | 02:01 |
| alterego | I dunno, the spec is somewhat beta. | 02:01 |
| |R | seeing the inside, it seemed like the internal SD was plated over with metal.. | 02:02 |
| alterego | Having dual memory slots is one of the greatest things abouyt the N800 | 02:02 |
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| alterego | Seems silly that they'd remove that capability. | 02:02 |
| alterego | Maybe that has something to do with the (Up to 2GB internal memory) | 02:03 |
| alterego | I heard something about a memory upgrade next year. That's probably it. | 02:03 |
| Jiten_ | that 2GB is most likely in that internal SD slot that's plated over. | 02:03 |
| alterego | Interesting .. | 02:04 |
| Jiten_ | well, at least you won't have to buy expansion to do much of anything with it. | 02:05 |
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| Jiten_ | aside from music and videos, 2GB actually is something :) | 02:05 |
| Jiten_ | my n800 only has that much currently. | 02:05 |
| alterego | Well, I've only got 2GB cards. | 02:05 |
| alterego | I have 2x 2GB in my N800 | 02:05 |
| alterego | Suits me perfectly .. | 02:05 |
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| |R | same here, 256MB internal with OS, 128 miniSD on the outside and 2GB microSD inside... basically 2GB if rounded :P | 02:07 |
| alterego | I don't use the MiniSD. | 02:08 |
| alterego | Just the 2x 2GB SD's I have. | 02:08 |
| alterego | Maybe with sshfs I could use the N800 as a second storage device ;) | 02:08 |
| |R | haha | 02:09 |
| |R | over pand | 02:09 |
| alterego | :) | 02:09 |
| |R | actually, you could share the gpsd over pand and use maemo mapper on the n800 | 02:09 |
| alterego | Well, it has ObexFTP :) | 02:10 |
| |R | (while you wait for it to be ported over ;) | 02:10 |
| alterego | Clever | 02:10 |
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| |R | hehe | 02:10 |
| |R | not very practical, but hey :) | 02:10 |
| |R | http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1603061298&size=o | 02:10 |
| alterego | Life wouldn't be fun if everything was practical :P | 02:10 |
| |R | this is not fair :P | 02:11 |
| * |R will go see the kids for a candy exchange ... | 02:11 | |
| |R | haha | 02:11 |
| |R | i just flashed my device and can't remember where/how to activate a .ashrc or equivalent file for aliases...? (/me really wish we had a full bash / ls / tar etc...) | 02:14 |
| alterego | ;) | 02:15 |
| * alterego uses SVN for all his configuration files. | 02:15 | |
| alterego | Anyhow, goodnight folks. | 02:15 |
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| |R | hehe | 02:15 |
| |R | is OS2008 out for the n800 yet? | 02:21 |
| zerojay | It's not mid-November and the n810 isn't on sale yet. | 02:23 |
| lardman | interesting comment about the 2008 os upping the n800's clock speed to 400mhz too | 02:23 |
| zerojay | I'm not so sure about that. | 02:24 |
| * lardman is trawling though the 10million posts on itt | 02:24 | |
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| zerojay | I didn't get that impression when I read the linked e-mail. | 02:24 |
| |R | hehe :) | 02:24 |
| * |R is asking too many stupid questions today and should have slept instead of trashing /bin :( | 02:26 | |
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| doublec | success, almost. microb-engine is now building | 02:29 |
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| lardman | night all | 02:39 |
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| pupnik_ | LOL |R | 02:40 |
| snowmoon | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=83381&postcount=160 | 02:40 |
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| pupnik_ | wb unique311 | 02:50 |
| unique311 | hello | 02:51 |
| unique311 | i feel outdated...with this new tablet all over maemo.org | 02:51 |
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| pupnik_ | heh | 02:52 |
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| zerojay | I like getting e-mails from Bugzilla whenever people fix something. :) | 02:53 |
| pupnik_ | "the micro usb is a now accepted charger standard between all manufacturers. it is the next step forward. my razr2 has it. thanks!" i did not know this | 02:53 |
| zerojay | Yep. | 02:54 |
| unique311 | so this new OS running on the n810... | 02:54 |
| unique311 | when will the 800 users get it? | 02:54 |
| zerojay | When the N810 goes on sale next month. | 02:54 |
| unique311 | ahh | 02:54 |
| pupnik_ | 'tis a happy day! | 02:56 |
| unique311 | pupnik...time to upgrade? | 02:56 |
| zerojay | Hmm. | 02:56 |
| zerojay | Looks like Maemo is now a supported platform on Forum Nokia now. | 02:56 |
| pupnik_ | well... people wanted a n800 with keyboard and now they have one | 02:56 |
| zerojay | Interesting. | 02:56 |
| pupnik_ | thanks nokia | 02:56 |
| unique311 | it looka like a umpc? | 02:57 |
| pupnik_ | great post zerojay re: gtk 2.10 | 02:58 |
| sp3000 | your mom lo... oh nevermind | 02:58 |
| zerojay | If I didn't already have a tablet, I'd be far more intersted in the N810. As it stands, I'm still interested, but not as much thanks to the IT 2008 update for the N800. | 02:59 |
| zerojay | pupnik_: Oh... thanks. Even though I don't know all the nitty gritty details, I hope it was understandable. | 02:59 |
| *** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik | 02:59 | |
| zerojay | I'm just excited to see what this brings. | 03:00 |
| zerojay | I spent all day at work refreshing ITT.. and fixing the odd bug or two on our Bugzilla. | 03:01 |
| pupnik | the picture of the 4 year old with the 810 kind of raises hope that it is holdable while thumb is on dpad and keys | 03:01 |
| zerojay | I hope Nokia doesn't keep bringing them out rapid-fire or I'd never get any work done. ;) | 03:01 |
| pupnik | :) whose bugzilla do you maintain? | 03:01 |
| zerojay | Internal company bugzilla for our cell phone games. | 03:02 |
| zerojay | I think we'll pass 15000 bugs filed this week... not bad for two years for 7 games across 300 phones. | 03:03 |
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| x2-tablet | rlah1q | 03:04 |
| x2-tablet | ! rather | 03:04 |
| pupnik | ah yah | 03:04 |
| x2-tablet | im in class | 03:04 |
| x2-tablet | lol | 03:04 |
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| x2-tablet | bluetooth kb ftw | 03:04 |
| zerojay | I think about 2000 of those bugs are mine. Heh. | 03:04 |
| pupnik | http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1603061298&size=o * j e a l o u s y * (sfw) | 03:05 |
| zerojay | Current bugzilla champion: Samsung D500. 54 bugs, 21 major/severe/crash. | 03:05 |
| zerojay | Haha.. yeah, I felt the same way. | 03:05 |
| zerojay | "Is he going to taste it?" | 03:06 |
| pupnik | heheh drool on the shirt, that'd be me | 03:07 |
| x2-tablet | lol | 03:07 |
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| doublec_ | gdk_event_request_motions undeclared whe building microb-engine | 03:11 |
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| pupnik | "I'm Hedgecore. I'm cynicism incarnate. The glass is neither half full, nor half empty, but it's a stupid glass and so's your face." - Hedgecore LOL | 03:13 |
| zerojay | Yeah, I thought that was quite funny. | 03:14 |
| pupnik | for ze games, the crucial unanswered question is resistance of the dpad | 03:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Since the CPU on the N810 and the N800 are (effectively, I'm not 100% here) the same, might we get a scale up to 400MHz with OS2008 on the N800? | 03:21 |
| zerojay | timeless: Sorry about 2034. I didn't mean to call anyone out or anything like that. ;) | 03:21 |
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| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: I think it's quite possible that we will. | 03:22 |
| zerojay | But trying not to get my hopes up too much. :) | 03:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | That . . . would be freaking amazing. | 03:22 |
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| zerojay | Like it's been mentioned, Sony did something similar with the PSP, underclocking it to 222mhz from 333mhz because of battery concerns. | 03:22 |
| zerojay | (Right as I say that, my kid hands me back my PSP.) | 03:23 |
| zerojay | But these days, Sony's allowing games to dynamically change the clock speed. | 03:23 |
| zerojay | Moving it up to 266, 300 or 333 as needed. | 03:23 |
| Lateralus | And removing the underclocking, afaik | 03:23 |
| zerojay | No. | 03:24 |
| Lateralus | I'm certain I read they were removing that, but I don't recall what I was reading. | 03:24 |
| zerojay | Unless games manually change the clock speed, it stays at 222mhz. | 03:24 |
| zerojay | Playing older games at higher clock speeds (hacked firmware) is great. | 03:24 |
| zerojay | Wipeout Pure at 333... smooth as silk. | 03:25 |
| zerojay | Even a small bump up in operating speed would be nice on the N800 though. | 03:25 |
| Lateralus | Entails a bump in price, and it's already not cheap. | 03:26 |
| snowmoon | did they fix the lcd/video bandwidth issue with the 810 | 03:26 |
| Lateralus | Personally I'd like to see the camera and other things that are poor quality anyway removed in favor of a cpu upgrade. | 03:26 |
| zerojay | I like having a camera. I just wish it was better quality, but I still use it anyways. | 03:27 |
| Lateralus | It's effectively useless for me | 03:27 |
| zerojay | Not as good as the PSP camera, but what can you do? | 03:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd use it if there were N800-to-desktop support for video calls | 03:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | and I can't imagine why there isn't already. | 03:28 |
| zerojay | You know... it does seem kind of shitty that the PSP camera only cost me $40... 1.3megapixel... and they didn't even bother to put something that good in the N800. | 03:28 |
| snowmoon | GeneralAntilles: If the 810 / IT2008 supprt gizmo you should be able to video <->PC | 03:29 |
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| Ar-ras | hi | 03:29 |
| _Monkey | niihau, Ar-ras | 03:29 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: They're still working on it. | 03:29 |
| zerojay | Supposedly. | 03:29 |
| pupnik | afaik it's a limitation of omap 2420 not natively supporting 800x480 | 03:29 |
| Ar-ras | Is it possible to connect a computermouse with the n800? | 03:30 |
| Ar-ras | with bluetooth | 03:30 |
| Ar-ras | does it get a cursor? | 03:30 |
| snowmoon | So that would be yes, the 810 still has the broken hardware interface that will cripple full resolution video | 03:30 |
| zerojay | It's not broken. | 03:31 |
| pupnik | the pixels are so small that 800x480 video isn't very important | 03:31 |
| zerojay | I wish people wouldn't toss around a word like that so easily. | 03:31 |
| pupnik | agree | 03:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Be nice if we could get a little higher bitrates, though. | 03:32 |
| snowmoon | the 8x0 can not support full screen video because of compromises in design | 03:32 |
| zerojay | That would always be nice, but I'm not willing to sacrifice other things to get it. | 03:32 |
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| zerojay | But even if they did, I'm sure it would have caused a negative uproar in one way or another. | 03:34 |
| pupnik | i hope nokia sells millions :/ | 03:34 |
| zerojay | Sometimes seems like Nokia can never do anything right when you read ITT. | 03:35 |
| pupnik | hehe | 03:35 |
| x2-tablet | hrm | 03:35 |
| x2-tablet | i love my 770 even | 03:35 |
| x2-tablet | on it now lol | 03:35 |
| zerojay | I've got my N800 everywhere I go. | 03:36 |
| zerojay | It's practically become my left hand. | 03:36 |
| zerojay | Anyone remember that N-Series website.. N Syndrome or something like that? | 03:36 |
| x2-tablet | yea :)p | 03:36 |
| Ar-ras | N95 | 03:36 |
| x2-tablet | yea :)p | 03:36 |
| Ar-ras | :-O | 03:36 |
| x2-tablet | is the 800 a lot better? | 03:36 |
| x2-tablet | im typing notes and crap on this now in class | 03:36 |
| zerojay | I don't have much experience with the 770, so I don't think I can help you with that. | 03:36 |
| Ar-ras | sure N800 is better then 770 | 03:37 |
| x2-tablet | ah | 03:37 |
| x2-tablet | lol | 03:37 |
| zerojay | http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=216135&l=6e3c9&id=726931730 - Even though the camera isn't great, just the fact that I have it with me all the time is nice and helpful. Never know what you might see. ;) | 03:38 |
| x2-tablet | lol | 03:38 |
| x2-tablet | i use my razr for that now | 03:38 |
| Lateralus | x2-tablet: It's a good upgrade, but if you've already purchased a 770, I doubt you'll get much from the N800 that would justify the cost. | 03:38 |
| x2-tablet | direct php upload | 03:38 |
| zerojay | I don't carry a cell phone. | 03:38 |
| x2-tablet | ill wait for the new one | 03:38 |
| x2-tablet | i do... | 03:38 |
| Lateralus | well, the average person, that is. You may be a tech nerd, in which case, no generalizations apply. | 03:38 |
| zerojay | I refused to before and after two years of working on cell phones all day every day, I refuse to now. | 03:38 |
| x2-tablet | i hook this to it | 03:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800 is a huge step up over the 770 | 03:39 |
| x2-tablet | for net | 03:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially for $230 | 03:39 |
| x2-tablet | hmm | 03:39 |
| * x2-tablet checks if hes a tech nerd | 03:39 | |
| x2-tablet | !t | 03:39 |
| x2-tablet | !temp | 03:40 |
| x2 | [HD1:: 32 C HD2:: 32 C Core 0:: 32 C Core 1:: 32 C Core 2:: 28 C Core 3:: 28 C] | 03:40 |
| x2-tablet | yep, tech nerd | 03:40 |
| zerojay | I think that maybe the fact that the N800 will be running IT2008 might be enough for me to justify the cost. | 03:40 |
| zerojay | And stay current for some time to come. | 03:40 |
| x2-tablet | it will? | 03:40 |
| Ar-ras | IT2008 Hacker Edition | 03:41 |
| Lateralus | I haven't purchased a tablet yet, thankfully. I won't feel bad when I purchase an 810. | 03:41 |
| zerojay | Nokia's stated several times that the N800 will at least get Chinook (IT2008) and Diablo (IT 2009?). | 03:41 |
| Ar-ras | :D | 03:41 |
| x2-tablet | wow.. | 03:41 |
| zerojay | Ar-ras: Maybe. | 03:41 |
| x2-tablet | very nice | 03:41 |
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| x2-tablet | !stat | 03:41 |
| x2-tablet | !cpu | 03:41 |
| x2 | Pc Info:: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 [Speed:: 3.60 GHz | 1.46 | 400 * 9 | 8MB (0% Load)] [Memory::Used: 1256/4094MB @ ddr2 800 | 3-3-3-6 2.2v] [HD1:: 32 C HD2:: 32 C Core 0:: 32 C Core 1:: 32 C Core 2:: 28 C Core 3:: 28 C] | 03:41 |
| x2-tablet | lolz | 03:42 |
| Ar-ras | does somebody tried to connect bt-mouse with the N800? | 03:42 |
| x2-tablet | i dont think you can | 03:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | It wont pair. | 03:42 |
| x2-tablet | there is no cursor | 03:42 |
| zerojay | Yes, there is | 03:42 |
| x2-tablet | there is no cursor | 03:43 |
| x2-tablet | er | 03:43 |
| x2-tablet | sorry | 03:43 |
| zerojay | The cursor is still used even if you can't usually see it. | 03:43 |
| x2-tablet | there is?* | 03:43 |
| zerojay | Yep. | 03:43 |
| x2-tablet | nice | 03:43 |
| Ar-ras | why should it not pair GeneralAntilles ? | 03:43 |
| Ar-ras | it uses HID-Profile | 03:43 |
| zerojay | If you get X very busy, you'll see the watch cursor on the last place you touched the screen. | 03:43 |
| Ar-ras | like BT-Keyboards | 03:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800 expects a key, mouse doesn't. | 03:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't work. | 03:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno why. | 03:43 |
| Ar-ras | tried? | 03:44 |
| x2-tablet | lol zerojay i noticed that | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 03:44 |
| Ar-ras | which vendor/model? | 03:44 |
| zerojay | If you click and drag around then, you'll see it's a real cursor. ;P | 03:44 |
| x2-tablet | lol | 03:45 |
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| x2-tablet | i just didnt think you could use it | 03:45 |
| Ar-ras | x2-tablet | 03:45 |
| Ar-ras | in scummvm we have a cursor :D | 03:45 |
| zerojay | There's no real technical reason why it can't be used as far as I know. | 03:45 |
| x2-tablet | :p | 03:45 |
| x2-tablet | i want a bt mouse now lol | 03:46 |
| pupnik | wow beautiful hi-res animations of 810 here http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=home | 03:46 |
| Tb0n3 | wait, why? | 03:46 |
| Ar-ras | I hope that I get next week the BT-Keyboard | 03:46 |
| _Monkey | maybe is a good idea | 03:46 |
| Ar-ras | then typing in university would be possible ;) | 03:46 |
| x2-tablet | lol | 03:47 |
| x2-tablet | im doing that now | 03:47 |
| x2-tablet | its fun | 03:47 |
| Ar-ras | thumbmode sucks ;) | 03:47 |
| x2-tablet | other people have their lappys | 03:47 |
| x2-tablet | and i have this | 03:47 |
| x2-tablet | :) | 03:47 |
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| pupnik | what is the little box on the nokia headphones for 810 - an fm radio? | 03:47 |
| Ar-ras | tried first day the sketch-mode | 03:47 |
| x2-tablet | lol | 03:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Headset, pupnik. | 03:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mic, etc. | 03:48 |
| pupnik | ah ty | 03:48 |
| x2-tablet | we need a teamspeak port... | 03:48 |
| x2-tablet | badly | 03:48 |
| Ar-ras | x2-tablet what are you studying? | 03:48 |
| x2-tablet | just business now | 03:48 |
| Ar-ras | dude we need webcam support | 03:48 |
| x2-tablet | at a local school | 03:49 |
| x2-tablet | webcam would own lol | 03:49 |
| Ar-ras | the webcam is crappy | 03:49 |
| Ar-ras | but it is now so useless | 03:49 |
| x2-tablet | i dont even have one | 03:49 |
| x2-tablet | :/ | 03:49 |
| Ar-ras | like Nelson says | 03:49 |
| Ar-ras | haha | 03:49 |
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| zerojay | I think today's been a good day. | 03:52 |
| zerojay | Nokia announces the N810... | 03:52 |
| zerojay | Capcom announces Street Fighter 4. | 03:52 |
| zerojay | "Contributors" will be able to get the N810 at a discount. | 03:52 |
| zerojay | Not just developers. | 03:52 |
| zerojay | News on that coming tomorrow, apparently. | 03:53 |
| pupnik | http://digg.com/gadgets/Hi_res_demo_of_the_Nokia_810_Sexy_meets_linux_for_relevant_to_my_interest | 03:53 |
| zerojay | For all the negative stuff said on ITT about it, I'm hearing nothing but "sexy" all over the place about it from blogs and other people. | 03:54 |
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| zerojay | I don't know if anyone looked back at the prototype pictures since this was announced, but it's clear in the prototype that the three side buttons on the left side are totally missing. Not that they aren't designed, but it looks like they were just not physically put in. | 03:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ITT is a mean place. | 03:55 |
| zerojay | They're cynical because they care. | 03:55 |
| zerojay | I just wish it wasn't to such a degree. | 03:55 |
| zerojay | Honestly, it sometimes sours me on the tablets. | 03:55 |
| pupnik | i'm immune to it. there are no competitors for me. | 03:57 |
| zerojay | Me either. | 03:57 |
| zerojay | Nothing else quite interests me like the tablets do. | 03:57 |
| pupnik | :) | 03:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's like the perfect mobile device. | 03:57 |
| zerojay | I like buying products and not seeing a Windows logo. | 03:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm so glad I bought the 770 when it was released. | 03:58 |
| pupnik | i just showed it to an 80 year old schoolteacher and she was "ok i can see why this is exciting" | 03:58 |
| zerojay | I wanted a 770 so bad for so long. | 03:58 |
| zerojay | See, I originally just wanted something to let me IM people wherever I was. | 03:58 |
| zerojay | Except without a phone and monthly charges. | 03:58 |
| zerojay | I bought a ZipIt Wireless Messenger. | 03:58 |
| zerojay | Also Linux. | 03:58 |
| zerojay | It worked... but nothing special. | 03:59 |
| x2-tablet | hmm | 03:59 |
| zerojay | (They just released a new version this month, much cooler.) | 03:59 |
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| x2-tablet | i connect this to my razr and do that lol | 03:59 |
| zerojay | When I saw the 770... I wanted it bad. | 03:59 |
| x2-tablet | kinda am right now.. | 03:59 |
| x2-tablet | but im on wifi | 03:59 |
| zerojay | I finally had the cash.. but it wasn't being sold in Canada. I just got my company to buy it for me at the Nokia store in NYC and shipped it up to me. | 04:00 |
| zerojay | So people here were a little confused when we got a package with a few Samsungs, a Nokia or two and I swiped mine and went to my desk. | 04:00 |
| pupnik | :) do you ever get to montreal? | 04:01 |
| zerojay | "We didn't put it into our inventory yet!" "That's because it's *MINE*!" | 04:01 |
| pupnik | HAHA | 04:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 04:01 |
| zerojay | It's been a while since I visited Montreal. Planning on going down there for Christmas and visiting my family. | 04:01 |
| zerojay | Pack up the wife and kid and head on down the road for 2 1/2 hours. | 04:01 |
| pupnik | best meal i ever ate was in montreal - Fierrera, the portueguese sea bass in port wine sauce | 04:01 |
| zerojay | Never tried it. | 04:02 |
| x2-tablet | lol | 04:02 |
| zerojay | When I was there last, I think I blew up my mother's mind when I showed her the N800. | 04:02 |
| zerojay | She barely has a concept of what internet is. | 04:02 |
| zerojay | She just knows it's popular and has lots of stuff on it. | 04:02 |
| zerojay | And naked people. | 04:02 |
| pupnik | I GOT THE SPELLING WRONG, SORRY | 04:02 |
| x2-tablet | lmao | 04:03 |
| pupnik | oops caps | 04:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 04:03 |
| zerojay | I showed the stuff I was able to do with my N800 and she looked like she was about to cry. | 04:03 |
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| zerojay | "It's like a wonderful magic box!" | 04:03 |
| x2-tablet | lol no kidding | 04:03 |
| pupnik | awesoem | 04:03 |
| zerojay | "Yes, ma... it is." | 04:03 |
| x2-tablet | i need a teamspeak port!! | 04:03 |
| zerojay | Is teamspeak open source? | 04:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha, my mother has an iPhone. >_> | 04:04 |
| x2-tablet | i dont think so | 04:04 |
| x2-tablet | not sure | 04:04 |
| zerojay | No port then. | 04:04 |
| x2-tablet | mumble | 04:04 |
| x2-tablet | vent | 04:04 |
| x2-tablet | any of them | 04:04 |
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| zerojay | Vent is defintely not open source. | 04:04 |
| x2-tablet | mumble is on sourceforge | 04:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | mumble would be what you'd be most likely to get on Maemo. | 04:04 |
| timeless | zerojay: i'm curious to hear what you've done to bugzilla and any things you've encountered while using it. also whatever version are you using, and what you've enabled :) | 04:04 |
| x2-tablet | hrm | 04:04 |
| x2-tablet | would be nice | 04:04 |
| zerojay | timeless: Here or in msg? | 04:04 |
| pupnik | it's cafe Ferreira, sorry - it's pricey food though, and you might need to reserve a couple of weeks in advance | 04:04 |
| timeless | it's a bit offtopic here :| | 04:05 |
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| iva1 | Hi everyone! I've got a strange problem with mplayer: some avi files run fine without any special recoding, and some don't. Are there any ways of fixing it? Maybe downloading some codecs for mplayer or somethinh? | 04:06 |
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| pupnik | iva1: the biggest performance problem is resolution. if you transcode them to 240 pixels high, pretty much any codec is playable | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm still looking for a reasonable solution to on-demand on-the-fly transcoding. | 04:08 |
| iva1 | Yes, but it takes a lot ofmtime... What's max resolution mplayer can play? | 04:08 |
| x2-tablet | try ¨super¨ | 04:09 |
| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: knots can do it now | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | iva1, you're going to have to reencode just about everything to have it run smoothly on the N800. | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik: linky? | 04:09 |
| pupnik | knots? | 04:10 |
| pupnik | hmm it's in early development i guess | 04:11 |
| pupnik | my old link is broken | 04:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, well, google gives me a lot o finfo about tying them. :P | 04:11 |
| pupnik | i haven't used it for that yet though - just streaming vids from pc | 04:13 |
| pupnik | i guess mediaconverter is still the way to go | 04:14 |
| shapr | Does anyone know how I can get kagu to play music via bluetooth A2DP? | 04:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I was thinking about just rolling something with PHP and vlc since there don't seem to be any pre-built solutions out there that aren't Windows-based. | 04:15 |
| timeless | last i checked n800 doesn't ship w/ a2dp ... | 04:15 |
| shapr | timeless: instructions are here: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu | 04:17 |
| pupnik | my thinkpad hates my 770 | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | They gonna fight? :P | 04:19 |
| pupnik | was just looking at feeling sorry for it :| | 04:19 |
| pupnik | think i'll call it 'wheezy' (toy story) | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Thinkpad or the 770? :P | 04:21 |
| pupnik | thinkpad - hasn't been out in 11 months | 04:21 |
| bmidgley | any word on if n810 improves video bandwidth? | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems unlikely. | 04:23 |
| timeless | i think the main goal is not adding too many regressions :) | 04:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | If only the N810 came in Dvorak. | 04:24 |
| Tb0n3 | you can do that on the screen | 04:25 |
| Tb0n3 | I'm sure | 04:25 |
| Tb0n3 | suck it up and type qwerty when you're mobile | 04:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, I'd just about eliminated that necessity by no longer working retail. ;) | 04:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Brings up an interesting point, is there any way to change the on-screen layout on the N800? | 04:26 |
| Tb0n3 | it's not like you're going to be able to make use of the dvorak's inward stroke or right domanance shit on a handheld | 04:26 |
| Tb0n3 | you can use a bluetooth keyboard anyways | 04:26 |
| Tb0n3 | good luck with getting it in dvorak | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wonder if anybody has designed a thumb-appropriate layout. | 04:27 |
| Tb0n3 | me? my hands have a lack of fucking nerve endings, they don't listen fast enough, so I can type fast with a qwerty but I don't think that dvorak would help me speed up | 04:27 |
| Tb0n3 | it's called a keypad | 04:27 |
| Tb0n3 | it wouldn't make any difference | 04:28 |
| Tb0n3 | people would just get confused and it wouldn't speed shit up | 04:28 |
| shapr | I only hope my 770 isn't too wimpy to play A2DP music. | 04:28 |
| Tb0n3 | also, what about people with large thumbs | 04:28 |
| shapr | My thumbs are huge! | 04:28 |
| snowmoon | bmidgley: the video bandwith issues are tied to the processor and since that is the same... expect the same issues | 04:28 |
| Tb0n3 | crap | 04:28 |
| x2-tablet | bleh | 04:29 |
| x2-tablet | hes still talking | 04:29 |
| Tb0n3 | I just realized I was in #maemo | 04:29 |
| Tb0n3 | T_T | 04:29 |
| x2-tablet | ill be back soon | 04:29 |
| Tb0n3 | sorry about that | 04:29 |
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| Tb0n3 | and here I was hoping I'd be able to avoid my monologues | 04:30 |
| shapr | but NOOO | 04:30 |
| shapr | It's funny, wherever you go, there you are. | 04:31 |
| Tb0n3 | well, people are stupid | 04:31 |
| Tb0n3 | and I have little patience | 04:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fenc. | 04:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | e+ | 04:31 |
| Tb0n3 | me? my fingers are stupid | 04:31 |
| shapr | yeah | 04:31 |
| Tb0n3 | not here | 04:31 |
| Tb0n3 | my grass is as green as green | 04:31 |
| Tb0n3 | I wouldn't mind winning the lottery, cause then it'd be so green it'd be fucking bluegreen | 04:32 |
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| Tb0n3 | and shapr, I finally get that "wherever you go, there you are" statement | 04:33 |
| Tb0n3 | can't escape who you are | 04:33 |
| Tb0n3 | unless that's not what it's supposed to mean | 04:33 |
| Tb0n3 | well, that's my introduction, "Hi, my name is Tb0n3, and I'm a monologuer." | 04:33 |
| snowmoon | sounds like a persoal problem | 04:34 |
| Tb0n3 | nah, I'm happy with who I am, I could do with a better attention span, more drive, but hey, I am who I am, and that's who I am | 04:35 |
| Tb0n3 | if I wasn't so lazy I'd be even smarter than I am | 04:35 |
| Tb0n3 | but I'm not | 04:36 |
| Tb0n3 | I'm fucking autistic, if that has anything to do with it | 04:36 |
| Tb0n3 | Aspergers | 04:36 |
| Tb0n3 | pronounced like "assburgers" | 04:36 |
| Tb0n3 | it means I like to draw | 04:36 |
| Tb0n3 | ha | 04:36 |
| Tb0n3 | I'm corny | 04:36 |
| Tb0n3 | not horny | 04:36 |
| snowmoon | sounds drunk to me | 04:37 |
| Tb0n3 | it's fun to talk to everybody at once, just expressing your own thought process | 04:37 |
| Tb0n3 | lets people really know who you are | 04:37 |
| Tb0n3 | and no, no drinks in me | 04:37 |
| Tb0n3 | I had sierra mist at dinner | 04:37 |
| Tb0n3 | not none of them alcohols | 04:37 |
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| Tb0n3 | lol | 04:37 |
| * GeneralAntilles pokes the monologer in the ribs with a sharpened stick. | 04:37 | |
| Tb0n3 | ow | 04:37 |
| shapr | Let's see if I killed the sound on my 770 with this a2dp stuff... | 04:38 |
| * shapr hopes it works! | 04:38 | |
| Tb0n3 | you spelt it wrong | 04:38 |
| Tb0n3 | I like how the 770 is immortal | 04:38 |
| * shapr starts up kagu and hopes for a bluetooth icon | 04:39 | |
| * shapr waits........ | 04:39 | |
| * shapr waits more | 04:39 | |
| Tb0n3 | uh oh | 04:39 |
| * shapr is still waiting. | 04:39 | |
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| disq | uh. | 04:39 |
| shapr | oh yes! I have the icon! | 04:39 |
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| Tb0n3 | hi disq, I apologize for the mess, I just can't help who I ams | 04:40 |
| Tb0n3 | sup? | 04:40 |
| * shapr bounces cheerfully | 04:40 | |
| Tb0n3 | lol | 04:40 |
| elmo43 | Thanatermesis: ? been keeping a distance lately? Or too busy? | 04:41 |
| * pupnik looks a thumb | 04:45 | |
| * pupnik tries to imagine pressing 'up' on the 810 dped :/ | 04:45 | |
| Tb0n3 | pj gpd | 04:46 |
| Tb0n3 | err | 04:46 |
| Tb0n3 | oh god | 04:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully Nokia will make some better ergonomic decisions for the N900 | 04:48 |
| pupnik | flash9 is great | 04:48 |
| pupnik | well the guys in finnland aren't koreans. the dpad must work with fat thumbs | 04:51 |
| timeless | heh | 04:51 |
| timeless | you're assuming it works | 04:51 |
| timeless | but yeah, they aren't micro dpads | 04:52 |
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| pupnik | btw in this video you can see the device standing up on table with kbd extended http://www.maemoapps.com/ | 04:56 |
| Tb0n3 | and it's all one big / | 04:59 |
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| pupnik | the car holder + gps will hopefully generate a lot of sales/interest | 05:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I think the biggest think the early adopters are getting out of this hardware upgrade is the (potentially) increased user-base. | 05:03 |
| |R | pupnik : does that mean the bluetooth headset will be supported on n800 ? :D | 05:04 |
| |R | pupnik : (talking about first video) | 05:04 |
| pupnik | i dunno bout all that | 05:04 |
| pupnik | i bet that's reggie from ITT's kid holding the 810 in the pic | 05:05 |
| x2 | hmm | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lucky bastard. :P | 05:05 |
| x2 | http://mumble.sourceforge.net/ | 05:05 |
| x2 | need a port of that | 05:05 |
| x2 | id freak out | 05:05 |
| x2 | : | 05:05 |
| x2 | :/ | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha, what's wrong with Gizmo or Skype? | 05:06 |
| x2 | free.. | 05:06 |
| _Monkey | free is probably 2972 | 05:06 |
| x2 | like | 05:06 |
| timeless | _monkey forget free | 05:06 |
| _Monkey | timeless: I forgot free | 05:06 |
| x2 | multiple people chatting | 05:06 |
| timeless | _monkey free is <reply> | 05:06 |
| _Monkey | OK, timeless. | 05:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gizmo is free for Gizme-to-Gizmo | 05:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | and you can do conferences through it. | 05:06 |
| x2 | do I even have that? | 05:07 |
| pupnik | did anybody figure out if charging through usb is possible on 810? | 05:07 |
| x2 | or is a download | 05:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a download | 05:07 |
| x2 | ah | 05:07 |
| x2 | i just prefer server - client | 05:07 |
| x2 | over any kind of calling | 05:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.gizmoproject.com/download.php | 05:08 |
| x2 | or having to register | 05:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's at the bottom there. | 05:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, get to porting. :P | 05:08 |
| x2 | lol | 05:08 |
| x2 | time to install hacker 07 on my mms | 05:08 |
| x2 | maybe.. | 05:09 |
| _Monkey | maybe is a good idea | 05:09 |
| x2 | lol | 05:09 |
| timeless | _monkey forget maybe | 05:09 |
| _Monkey | timeless: I forgot maybe | 05:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpamBot! | 05:09 |
| x2 | lmfao | 05:09 |
| timeless | _monkey maybe is <reply> | 05:09 |
| _Monkey | OK, timeless. | 05:09 |
| x2 | maybe | 05:09 |
| x2 | :/ | 05:09 |
| |R | http://www.gizmoproject.com/learnmore-nokia800.html | 05:10 |
| |R | hehe | 05:10 |
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| Tb0n3r | well | 05:21 |
| Tb0n3r | now I've got me CS2 again | 05:21 |
| Tb0n3r | wonder if I'll ever really have a need for photoshop | 05:22 |
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| tdb30__ | has anyone been able to get wireless broadband to work over any of the nokia internet tablets through usb? | 05:49 |
| tdb30__ | I have a sprint usb broadband card and wonder if I can use it. I know the 770 has issues with power to the usb port or something, do the newer models have the same issue? | 05:50 |
| x2 | I have no idea on that one | 05:51 |
| x2 | that would be crazy though | 05:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | USB wireless has three problems: drivers, power and host-mode. | 05:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bluetooth tethering is the way to go. | 05:52 |
| x2 | :) | 05:52 |
| tdb30__ | Heh. I guess that is a possibility. | 05:53 |
| Deformati | Ugh, does the pdf reader load the entire pdf to the ram or does it read on the fly? | 05:54 |
| Deformati | Because I cannot read my 20m pdf. | 05:55 |
| Tb0n3 | loads fonts and stuff | 05:55 |
| timeless | easy to verify, no? | 05:55 |
| tdb30__ | But can't people hop on my internet when I'm using bluetooth to talk to the devices? I never used bluetooth, so I'm not sure of how it works. | 05:55 |
| timeless | which os release? | 05:55 |
| Tb0n3 | no tdb30__ | 05:55 |
| Tb0n3 | it's a secured connection | 05:55 |
| Tb0n3 | you find the phone that's broadcasting itself | 05:56 |
| Tb0n3 | then you connect to the phone with a pin number | 05:56 |
| Tb0n3 | then on the phone you enter that number and create the connection | 05:56 |
| Tb0n3 | then you can use your data plan or a dialup | 05:56 |
| Tb0n3 | that answer your question? | 05:57 |
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| Big_B | good morning everyone(~ugt) | 05:59 |
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| tdb30__ | Yes, thanks very much tb0n3 | 06:02 |
| Tb0n3 | :D | 06:02 |
| tdb30__ | My friend just got a 770 or something and now he has me all interested ;) | 06:03 |
| tdb30__ | It would be nice though if I didn't have to have this and a phone in my pocket. | 06:03 |
| x2 | ;P | 06:03 |
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| pupnik | thanks to ssvb's awesome work on mplayer, the 770 really shows off what a 225mhz arm9 can do | 06:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's the optimal for the 770? | 06:09 |
| pupnik | i usually encode to xvid at around 700kb/s, 400x240 | 06:10 |
| pupnik | great results at around 300MB/movie | 06:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Got 2 770 lying around, so encoding stuff that would work on them as well as the N800 wouldn't be bad. | 06:11 |
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| x2 | pupnik wow | 06:16 |
| pupnik | xvid codec does a great job of smoothing out unimportant detail/noise | 06:17 |
| pupnik | add a 3d denoise filter, crank down audio to 64kb/s mono | 06:18 |
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| Tb0n3 | for some reason mplayer stopped working at all on my 770 OS2007he | 06:27 |
| straind | pupnik: What's your video source and what do you use to encode? | 06:28 |
| |R | is anybody here using skype? is it possible to find someone's username by his email? | 06:29 |
| |R | (yes i forgot my username i created at random on the n800 and thus i can't get my pass back as they ask for stupid informations...) | 06:29 |
| pupnik | straind: mencoder to encode | 06:30 |
| straind | I'm currently transcoding on my myth box (nuv -> xvid) to see how your suggestions look. :) | 06:37 |
| tdb30__ | anyone know what the going price is for an n800 on ebay? I see them at about $250, I'm wondering if it is high since the 810 was just released right? | 06:37 |
| zerojay | tdb30__: Used or new? | 06:37 |
| timeless | since buy.com has new n800s for $240... | 06:38 |
| timeless | http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n800-internet-tablet/q/loc/101/204055141.html | 06:38 |
| tdb30__ | so $300 for a new one is WAY overpriced. | 06:38 |
| timeless | buy.com includes shipping, but probably only to the us, not sure how much intl costs :) | 06:39 |
| tdb30__ | I'm in the us, so no problem there. | 06:39 |
| pupnik | can't get a 770 for $240 in germany | 06:44 |
| * sxpert will skip the 800 and go straight for the 810 | 06:46 | |
| sxpert | the integrated GPS and keyboard will make it a perfect surveying station | 06:47 |
| pupnik | can maemomapper show map data without a cellfone/gprs connection? | 06:48 |
| sxpert | pupnik, as long as you have that part of the map in cache | 06:48 |
| zerojay | If you have the maps saved, sure. | 06:48 |
| pupnik | ok | 06:48 |
| * |R wonders if this n810 will eat into OQO's market... | 06:50 | |
| pupnik | i'm really hoping it will become a strong alternative to windows pdas | 06:52 |
| pupnik | at least for ppl not totally locked-into outlook | 06:53 |
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| pupnik | i dunno and the games of course | 06:54 |
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| |R | yeah, as long as FOSS wins, i'm happy | 07:01 |
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| pupnik | |R: support prosecution of warez :P | 07:12 |
| |R | pupnik : i do ;) | 07:15 |
| |R | well , not really but ... hehe | 07:15 |
| |R | i don't use them :) | 07:15 |
| |R | (mostly , what does vrms say...) | 07:15 |
| pupnik | i helped clamp down on warez at two workplaces | 07:15 |
| pupnik | and promoted linux of course | 07:15 |
| |R | nvidia-drivers, java (which is GPLed now) and fonts... oh and unrar :P | 07:15 |
| |R | hehe yeah :) | 07:16 |
| |R | I wouldn't go after persons, but corps, yeah sure | 07:16 |
| pupnik | i understand | 07:16 |
| pupnik | but one thing to realize is that the kids fail to see the benefits of OSS | 07:17 |
| pupnik | because everything's free to them anyway | 07:17 |
| |R | They don't understand the format / carrier problem | 07:18 |
| |R | giving control over the format and where it goes and how it is filtered... | 07:18 |
| pupnik | That too. | 07:18 |
| pupnik | I tell them "if you had to pay for all your windoze wares, you wouldn't think windows was so hot." | 07:18 |
| czr | mornink | 07:18 |
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| |R | in the end is even more important then what apps you used to generate it... most people aren't coders, so telling them they chan change it and that at first it doesn't work isn't the best aproach | 07:18 |
| pupnik | True | 07:19 |
| |R | chan/can | 07:19 |
| |R | i always tell about MSN as an opener, and how M$ can decice to censor words, and how the internet is becoming a vital democratic dialog/platform.... and 1+1 = 0 ... | 07:19 |
| |R | hehe | 07:20 |
| |R | but i guess you just can't push it onto people... | 07:20 |
| |R | you have to let them hang themselfs ;) | 07:20 |
| * |R wonders if an rtcomm for 3.2 will be released which fixes the tunnel problem... | 07:21 | |
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| pupnik | when the internet was new, microsoft tried to prevent adoption of TCP/IP | 07:21 |
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| zerojay | JR: I doubt we'll see a new beta of RTCOMM until the version released with Chinook. | 07:22 |
| |R | everyone tried and, fortunately, failed ! ... i'm afraid now though by services like google, having huge datacenters that do everything in a centralized way... web 2.0 is a crappy catch words wich hide centralization behin a social mass... it's not p2p damn it, it's central control | 07:22 |
| |R | I hope google is not turning the net into AOL 2.0 | 07:23 |
| timeless | given that chinook is probably at most a few weeks away, yes, everyone should be busy worrying about it | 07:23 |
| pupnik | hah | 07:23 |
| czr | heh timeless | 07:23 |
| czr | we are.. | 07:23 |
| |R | :) | 07:23 |
| czr | timeless, you don't sleep ever, do you? :-) | 07:23 |
| timeless | something like that | 07:24 |
| |R | pupnik : what do you think about the OpenMoko? The n810? How open those platform are and relate? | 07:24 |
| pupnik | i like em both | 07:25 |
| * |R is really hoping for a foture of distributed/decentralized networks at every OSI level... | 07:25 | |
| pupnik | nokia's approach helps them produce things on-time better :P moko has done good work so far but is moving a bit slow | 07:26 |
| czr | even 4, 5 and 6? that would be scary | 07:26 |
| |R | including layer >:] | 07:26 |
| pupnik | hmm | 07:26 |
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| pupnik | agree in principle | 07:27 |
| |R | well, maybe not 4-5-6 in the full OSI model ... evne though we could think about it ;) | 07:27 |
| czr | you'd have to come up with a DNS replacement first though | 07:27 |
| |R | OSI is bloated... let's keep to a stack 4 layer high :P | 07:27 |
| |R | yeah, DNS is a pain and must be killed | 07:28 |
| czr | raw IPv6 ftw. | 07:28 |
| |R | but the Web is the biggest pain, everyone is building upon the browser | 07:28 |
| |R | it's the new OS in the OS... we don't exploit p2p enough, like they do in china it seems | 07:28 |
| |R | they don't have stupid laws blocking p2p just because... and apparently the market is flourishing fast... i wonder if the next big thing will come from asia | 07:29 |
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| |R | http://guerillartivism.net/node/24 | 07:29 |
| pupnik | you might be interested in 'increasing returns' 'path dependence' with relation to technology standards | 07:29 |
| czr | I don't think anyone is blocking p2p per se. it's distributing copyrighted content without permission which is the problem. | 07:29 |
| |R | i was trying to amass links there to technologies, research and ideas about distributed systems (in a somewhat applied way) | 07:29 |
| pupnik | that's a bit abstract to my viewpoint | 07:30 |
| |R | czr : i know, but they are cracking down on networks, not filesharers | 07:30 |
| |R | kill kazaa! kill amule! not kill madonna cds ... :( | 07:30 |
| czr | |R, depends on the country I guess. sure ISP do bandwidth throttling at least over here, but it's not all too aggressive | 07:31 |
| pupnik | publicdomaintorrents.com is up | 07:31 |
| |R | czr : where is here? :) | 07:31 |
| czr | where I am, obviously. :-) | 07:31 |
| czr | finland atm. | 07:32 |
| |R | czr : here in montreal (canada) it's getting harder and harder to get an ISP without a cap, ridiculous prices etc | 07:32 |
| czr | ah, wasn't aware of that. maybe they just want to cash in on the extra traffic | 07:32 |
| czr | ISPs are like that. they want to make money. | 07:32 |
| |R | the 2 main corps are putting out pricier services with slower bandwith every day :( | 07:32 |
| * timeless sghs | 07:32 | |
| |R | it's bascailly the old national bell corp agains the big provincial cable | 07:32 |
| timeless | anyone here speak russian? | 07:33 |
| czr | timeless, I read it. | 07:33 |
| czr | and speak. not write. (don't ask :-) | 07:33 |
| |R | and then the CRTC (FCC for canada) decided to let people resell the adsl of the bell... anyway, it's a mess and we don't have real competition :( | 07:33 |
| timeless | that's fine | 07:33 |
| timeless | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2124 | 07:33 |
| timeless | 2) Expand some folder with goods categories. | 07:33 |
| timeless | what does that mean for those of us who wouldn't know a "goods categories" from a "dead mouse" | 07:34 |
| czr | I think it means "product categories"? | 07:34 |
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| timeless | sorry | 07:34 |
| * czr takes a look | 07:34 | |
| |R | anyone using www.opennic.unrated.net ? :) | 07:34 |
| timeless | to be clear, tell me exactly which quare to click | 07:34 |
| timeless | use coordinates | 07:34 |
| timeless | because there's no way i can read cyrillic over irc | 07:34 |
| czr | just a sec | 07:35 |
| timeless | sounds Racey :) | 07:35 |
| czr | timeless, all the gray buttons are separate "categories" | 07:35 |
| czr | the first on the left top corner is "computers, notebooks, KPK (no idea)" | 07:35 |
| czr | the ones with the annoying excel icons ;-) | 07:36 |
| czr | the light blue "tab" just above that is "prais-list" | 07:36 |
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| czr | so I guess we're on the right page at least | 07:36 |
| czr | ah. now I get the report | 07:37 |
| czr | below the gray buttons, there's a hierarchial "navigation tree" | 07:37 |
| czr | on the left | 07:37 |
| * |R wonders if he'll ever have enougth people running one mesh-routing algorithm to make it fun | 07:37 | |
| czr | timeless, if you first press the first top-left gray button (the one with the "computer" icon), it should open the hierarhical view just below the buttons | 07:38 |
| timeless | hold | 07:38 |
| timeless | some idiot is pissing me off | 07:38 |
| czr | there will be two entries with "HP" and "SONY" there (for example) | 07:38 |
| timeless | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535#c5 | 07:38 |
| timeless | ok | 07:39 |
| timeless | interesting | 07:39 |
| timeless | and this doesn't work on the n800? | 07:39 |
| czr | I have no idea. you want me to test? | 07:39 |
| timeless | please | 07:39 |
| czr | a sec | 07:40 |
| czr | btw, I have stock opera on it | 07:40 |
| * timeless shrug | 07:40 | |
| timeless | the guy complained about both, no? | 07:40 |
| czr | not microb or anything | 07:40 |
| czr | let me check | 07:41 |
| czr | konqueror doesn't render it correctly either though ;-) | 07:41 |
| czr | (running a very old version of it here) | 07:41 |
| timeless | the css looks over specified | 07:41 |
| timeless | my bet is the site isn't close to correct | 07:41 |
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| czr | wouldn't be too surprising | 07:41 |
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| timeless | cute | 07:43 |
| timeless | height = 31 | 07:43 |
| timeless | site's broken | 07:43 |
| timeless | RESO **** | 07:43 |
| czr | works on opera on n800 | 07:43 |
| czr | want a screenshot? | 07:44 |
| zerojay | Believe he attached one to the bug for both microb and Opera. | 07:44 |
| timeless | i so don't care | 07:44 |
| czr | ah, great. | 07:44 |
| timeless | it doesn't work in firefox on windows | 07:44 |
| czr | didn't find the screenshot tool anyway ;-) | 07:45 |
| timeless | the code clearly generated a bogus value | 07:45 |
| timeless | now back to yelling at this other guy | 07:45 |
| timeless | if you guys are awake and less angry than me, helpwaned in the other bug 535#c5 | 07:45 |
| _Monkey | Bug 535 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535 | 07:45 |
| czr | timeless, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2075 (boy do I feel silly) | 07:45 |
| czr | but honestly that was the first link I tried with N800 | 07:45 |
| timeless | oh fwiw | 07:46 |
| timeless | i talked to a guy this week | 07:46 |
| timeless | and he contacted someone this week | 07:46 |
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| timeless | there was some vague indication of progress | 07:46 |
| czr | on what? :-) | 07:46 |
| timeless | i should reopen it and move it to misdirected:Nokia | 07:46 |
| czr | the buggy webpage? | 07:46 |
| timeless | primary nokia content for our platform? | 07:46 |
| timeless | yes. | 07:46 |
| czr | I sent email to the webmaster at nokia | 07:46 |
| czr | but that never solicited any response | 07:47 |
| timeless | i used internal channels and a finnish speaking intermediary | 07:47 |
| czr | "how suprising" | 07:47 |
| timeless | it'll be fixed | 07:47 |
| czr | cool | 07:47 |
| timeless | my intermediary is good | 07:47 |
| czr | just was silly debugging exersise. especially because of the gzip-encoded transfer | 07:47 |
| * timeless nods | 07:47 | |
| timeless | did i tell you how to defeat that? | 07:47 |
| czr | no? | 07:47 |
| timeless | oops :) | 07:47 |
| czr | or hmm. can't remember who did | 07:48 |
| timeless | about:config?sprefname=encoding | 07:48 |
| czr | no :-) | 07:48 |
| * |R wonders why nseries.com is the only flash site completely fucked in his browser :P | 07:48 | |
| czr | that's too easy damn it! | 07:48 |
| czr | wireshark -> capture -> follow TCP stream -> export as raw -> clip the gzip data out from there -> gunzip.. | 07:48 |
| czr | ftw. | 07:48 |
| timeless | wireshark sucks | 07:49 |
| timeless | i mean, this is basic functionality | 07:49 |
| czr | oh yes. setup a switch through which all AP data passes with a mirror port too | 07:49 |
| timeless | it needs to just support it | 07:49 |
| timeless | sorry | 07:49 |
| czr | np :-) | 07:49 |
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| timeless | fwiw, i had a js proxy server that i could use for debugging stuff like this | 07:49 |
| timeless | but it was my previous employer's property | 07:49 |
| timeless | it made this stuff trivial :) | 07:50 |
| czr | yup. someone suggested using ettercap in filter mode (so that it would rip out the gzip capability from the request) | 07:50 |
| timeless | especially since it ran in gecko and was tunable w/ about:config | 07:50 |
| timeless | i could add arbitrary js to the proxy on the fly :) | 07:50 |
| timeless | anyway, shall i reopen the bug and move it to misdirected | 07:51 |
| czr | that sounds like.. just about any site that uses js. they seem to add arbitrary js to the content too. :-) | 07:51 |
| timeless | or just add a comment w/ the note about the config bit | 07:51 |
| czr | you could add the comment at least. that would've helped a lot | 07:51 |
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| czr | timeless, so #535 is about missing unicode codepoints in device fonts? | 07:53 |
| timeless | no | 07:54 |
| timeless | the summary clearly says: | 07:54 |
| timeless | Dynamic Fonts not supported by opera | 07:54 |
| timeless | it's not asking for Tamil | 07:54 |
| timeless | it's not asking for unicode support | 07:54 |
| timeless | it's not asking for decoders | 07:54 |
| timeless | it's asking for: | 07:54 |
| timeless | Dynamic Fonts not supported by opera | 07:54 |
| timeless | the reason it asks for that | 07:54 |
| czr | I'm afraid to ask. what are Dynamic Fonts? | 07:54 |
| timeless | is because a long time ago | 07:54 |
| timeless | ... | 07:54 |
| timeless | see the link to bugzilla.mozilla.org | 07:54 |
| timeless | in short, netscape 4 and ie supported them | 07:54 |
| timeless | either in the form of OTF (?) or APR/AFR (?) | 07:55 |
| timeless | basically sites could include a reference to a file which the browser would download and load and use to render the page | 07:55 |
| czr | ah | 07:55 |
| timeless | mind you, fonts are a great way to send viral / exploit code | 07:55 |
| czr | hmm. MS introduced them. embedded fonts is the correct term | 07:55 |
| timeless | because very few people handle them correctly | 07:56 |
| czr | no wonder it didn't register. and yes, it was evil. | 07:56 |
| timeless | it wasn't really evil | 07:56 |
| czr | it was. truetype validation isn't trivial. | 07:56 |
| timeless | it was the only way for a certain group along the indian ocean | 07:56 |
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| timeless | it doesn't have to be TTF | 07:56 |
| timeless | you could also use Adobe's fonts | 07:56 |
| timeless | which is what netscape used | 07:56 |
| czr | hmm. IE only supported ttf. | 07:56 |
| jaek_ | uh is there a decent dictionary program for english? | 07:56 |
| timeless | but for reference, microsoft didn't parse TTFs well enough the last time i checked | 07:57 |
| timeless | the definition of not well enough is BSOD btw | 07:57 |
| czr | timeless, didn't claim they did :-) | 07:57 |
| timeless | (the fonts were of course broken, but the user doesn't care) | 07:57 |
| czr | used to do a lot of work with ttf round 2000-2002 | 07:57 |
| timeless | nice | 07:57 |
| timeless | i played w/ them before that | 07:57 |
| timeless | and a bit annually as people complain about Dynamic Fonts | 07:58 |
| timeless | or various similar things | 07:58 |
| timeless | anyway, back to the bug at hand | 07:58 |
| czr | so, what you're saying that there are unicode codepoints for the language, there might even be fonts that cover those codepoints, but the webpages in question will not switch to unicode? | 07:58 |
| timeless | i need to get text into the bug explaining to the reporter why i'm obligated to comment | 07:58 |
| timeless | and why he's delluded | 07:58 |
| timeless | web pages are typically dead | 07:59 |
| timeless | like trees | 07:59 |
| timeless | asking them to switch is like asking a book to repaginate | 07:59 |
| czr | heh. love the analogy. | 07:59 |
| timeless | thanks :) | 07:59 |
| timeless | but the point is, that i don't care about anything other than the bug summary | 08:00 |
| timeless | if he asks for X in Opera | 08:00 |
| timeless | it's my job to say that X in Opera won't happen | 08:00 |
| timeless | and if you want X in Gecko, you'll have to talk to mozilla.org | 08:00 |
| timeless | he didn't ask us to install Tamil fonts | 08:00 |
| timeless | or encoders/decoders or ... | 08:00 |
| timeless | he asked for support for Dynamic Fonts | 08:00 |
| czr | I guess his grief is partly due to waiting for a response for such a long time | 08:01 |
| czr | or her. | 08:01 |
| timeless | i inherited that problem | 08:01 |
| czr | and the other part seems to be that you're responding in a technical manner which seems to go slightly over the top for him/her. | 08:01 |
| timeless | we didn't own or have permission to talk in bugs.maemo.org | 08:01 |
| czr | that sucks :-) | 08:01 |
| timeless | until the microb project was announced | 08:01 |
| timeless | until that time, i could have said "sorry, we're not paying opera to fix this" | 08:02 |
| timeless | "especially given that we're not trying to sell any devices in your market..." | 08:02 |
| timeless | which we aren't | 08:02 |
| czr | indeed, that was my question as well | 08:02 |
| timeless | i'm still amazed that we suppor Russian and aren't trying to sell there... | 08:02 |
| * timeless needs to ask BI to replace this laptop, not having a functional 't' key *sucks* | 08:03 | |
| czr | timeless, I'd think that has something to do with project origins or smt. I don't know the specifics obviously :-) | 08:03 |
| timeless | which part? | 08:03 |
| timeless | supporting russian or not selling? | 08:03 |
| czr | supporting russian | 08:04 |
| timeless | personally, i'd support russian to keep my devs honest | 08:04 |
| czr | and besides, many russian-speaking people don't live in russia | 08:04 |
| timeless | because cyrillic isn't latin | 08:04 |
| timeless | which means slightly better testing | 08:04 |
| timeless | but i doubt that's the reason why | 08:04 |
| timeless | it's too technical | 08:04 |
| czr | assuming you know when it looks like proper cyrillic vs just gibberish | 08:04 |
| timeless | nah | 08:04 |
| czr | you'd be amazed :-) | 08:04 |
| timeless | things can go wrong enough that it'll crash | 08:05 |
| timeless | the honesty level i'd want is probably just that | 08:05 |
| czr | heh | 08:05 |
| timeless | remember, we can't get people who recognize proper English from gibberish | 08:05 |
| timeless | expecting better from anythinhg else is .... | 08:05 |
| timeless | asking way too much | 08:05 |
| timeless | s/thinh/thin/ | 08:05 |
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| czr | :-) | 08:06 |
| timeless | anyway, back to my bug | 08:06 |
| straind | I just noticed that Arjun is the OP and the latest reply. | 08:06 |
| timeless | "reporter", yes | 08:06 |
| straind | That's what I meant to type. :) | 08:07 |
| timeless | i'm just here to reformat your brain, continue... | 08:07 |
| timeless | --draft-- | 08:07 |
| timeless | reporter: I'm *the* browser architect: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/5/ | 08:07 |
| timeless | 08:07 | |
| czr | timeless, I think it all boils down to this: "complaining here is absolutely pointless". bad timeless, bad.. | 08:07 |
| timeless | and the people who have added comments did *not* understand the concept. They don't know what dynamic fonts mean with relation to the web. I do, I've been working (albeit not actively) on trying to get dynamic fonts supported in Mozilla for more than 5 years. | 08:07 |
| timeless | 08:07 | |
| timeless | And I'm sorry, it's my job to respond to bug postings. I'm responsible for all bugs in the browser. | 08:07 |
| timeless | 08:07 | |
| timeless | As for the delay, I'm sorry, until my project was announced in June, I wasn't allowed to talk about the browser at all. | 08:08 |
| timeless | - | 08:08 |
| czr | I think that's pretty fair :-) | 08:08 |
| czr | you could also add that dynamic fonts are EVIL. | 08:08 |
| timeless | anyone else before i click Commit? | 08:08 |
| timeless | nah, i won't do that | 08:08 |
| timeless | i still want to suppor them | 08:09 |
| straind | So the issue is Arjun was asking for a feature to be added to Opera, but since it's not open source... | 08:09 |
| timeless | straind: arjun was asking us to pay opera to add a feature | 08:09 |
| timeless | for which we'd get no return | 08:09 |
| timeless | a very very expensive feature | 08:09 |
| timeless | and i tried to explain that you shouldn't ask downstream to fix a bug like this | 08:09 |
| timeless | if arjun wants dynamic fonts in opera, arjun should talk to opera | 08:10 |
| timeless | who will probably kindly offer arjun the bill | 08:10 |
| czr | timeless, what are the odds that even if he would talk and pay to opera, that they'd actually fix his 800? | 08:10 |
| straind | I didn't read it as Arjun asking anyone to pay Opera to fix it. He just wants it fixed. ;-p | 08:10 |
| timeless | not sure how many millions it'll cost, my guess is considerably more than it cost for nokia to get opera for 770/n800 | 08:10 |
| czr | I guess my point was, does opera actively offer their browser for the device? | 08:11 |
| timeless | no | 08:11 |
| * czr nods | 08:11 | |
| timeless | nokia paid for it | 08:11 |
| czr | well, obviously, but that doesn't have to be the only business model for them (opera) | 08:11 |
| timeless | but if arjun has enough money to pay for the feature, the pocket change for getting the software for the device should not be a problem | 08:11 |
| timeless | and that's really the proportion | 08:12 |
| timeless | adding dynamic fonts is a major feature | 08:12 |
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| timeless | porting an X11 application that ran on embedded devices to an embedded platform that runs X11 ... | 08:13 |
| timeless | sure nokia probably made some annoying requests, but they're trivial in comparison | 08:13 |
| timeless | (and no, i have no idea what nokia asked for, and if i knew, i couldn't say) | 08:13 |
| timeless | czr: do i cc Quim or just reply? | 08:14 |
| straind | I just spent 56 minutes transcoding a 60 minute video. That seems a little wasteful. | 08:14 |
| timeless | just a little? | 08:15 |
| straind | Well, I'm hoping I'll have something that will play on the 700 now. That's worth something, and it's not like I was actively doing it. Just waiting for it and doing other things. | 08:16 |
| czr | timeless, you might ask someone else for that. /me is outsider. | 08:16 |
| straind | s/700/770 | 08:16 |
| * timeless was wondering if straind would do that | 08:16 | |
| straind | Do what? | 08:17 |
| timeless | fix your typo :) | 08:17 |
| straind | It took me a while to realize I made a mistake. It's so infrequent. | 08:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like engadget and their "Nokia N700" | 08:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not really sure what that is. >_> | 08:19 |
| czr | GeneralAntilles, it's the 770 with the virtual keyboard removed | 08:19 |
| timeless | czr: and Nseries added? | 08:20 |
| czr | timeless, sure. it's for the busy corporate execs who prefer to point and click and can't be bothered with keyboards | 08:20 |
| czr | user friendlier model of 770 you see. | 08:20 |
| timeless | i thought corporate execs were eSeries | 08:23 |
| * czr secretly wishes he'd be using the zSeries right now | 08:25 | |
| czr | too noisy to have them at home, but very nice devices otherwise. | 08:25 |
| Thanatermesis | elmo43, just keeping a distance, i dont enter on the channel because IRC lost a lot of my time, pretty busy | 08:26 |
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| czr | btw, anyone using the vmware images for maemo development? | 08:32 |
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| czr | hmm. X forwarding from within SDK is not possible? | 09:05 |
| czr | (with ssh) | 09:05 |
| czr | I have xephyr running on host A. I then do ssh -X host B (where I have the SDK installed). X forwarding with X client there works. I then do /scratchbox/login, and check DISPLAY (localhost:10 as per ssh default), but gtk complains that DISPLAY is not set. | 09:08 |
| czr | localhost:10.0 even. | 09:09 |
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| czr | meh. it was an xauth issue. | 09:24 |
| czr | yays | 09:24 |
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| czr | hmm. any idea why there is no X86 version of osso-screenshot-tool? | 09:30 |
| czr | (there is one of the ARMEL side of SDK) | 09:30 |
| czr | on the.. even. | 09:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Because you can take screenies using the host OS if you're running under VMWare? | 09:31 |
| czr | assuming that I'm running under VMware, I could take screenies of the ARMEL side as well. | 09:32 |
| czr | just wondering whether it's just some oversight. | 09:33 |
| * GeneralAntilles is a Nooblette Without a Clue. ;) | 09:33 | |
| czr | GeneralAntilles, actually my SDK is now running as a VM, but I have xephyr on my main machine, this way I don't have to have the vmware UI open at all (the vm is on another machine anyway) | 09:33 |
| czr | I'm using ssh to the vm and then /scratchbox/login and using ssh X forwarding so that all the graphics stuff comes back to my main desktop | 09:34 |
| timeless | oh | 09:34 |
| czr | much more convenient than the vmware UI stuff, it's "jerky". | 09:34 |
| timeless | czr: did i properly indicate that the other commens were entirely offbase? | 09:34 |
| czr | timeless, wrt what? | 09:34 |
| czr | ah, I should re-read the bug-entry now, shouldn't I? :-) | 09:35 |
| timeless | yeah | 09:35 |
| czr | url? | 09:35 |
| czr | my X crashed a while ago. | 09:35 |
| timeless | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535 | 09:35 |
| czr | yup. that seems right to me | 09:36 |
| timeless | thanks | 09:36 |
| czr | timeless, you might want to add this link for the curious: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/ | 09:38 |
| czr | I think that's the thing that started the whole mess anyway | 09:38 |
| timeless | http://cgi.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease352.html | 09:39 |
| czr | or even this: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/weft00.htm | 09:39 |
| czr | ah | 09:39 |
| czr | that's where the name comes from :-) | 09:39 |
| czr | I guess that's better, but you could throw both :-) | 09:39 |
| timeless | i'm kinda hold | 09:39 |
| timeless | s/h// | 09:39 |
| infobot | timeless meant: i'm kinda old | 09:39 |
| czr | hmm. a new bot? | 09:40 |
| timeless | no | 09:40 |
| timeless | just generally silent | 09:40 |
| czr | never noticed it before :-) | 09:40 |
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| czr | timeless, now that I think about it, I stumbled across WEFT back in 97 or 98 | 09:44 |
| czr | I think that was when IE4 just came out | 09:44 |
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| ticapix | hi | 10:35 |
| ticapix | This may appears stupid, but is it possible to test the 0S2008 for N810 emulated under qemu ? | 10:36 |
| ticapix | when it will be out... | 10:37 |
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| Tili | how good is support for Qt now? | 10:53 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:03 |
| Tili | morning | 11:07 |
| _Monkey | aloha | 11:07 |
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| Big_B | Pupnik : r you here!!!!!!!!!! | 11:09 |
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| Veggen | now, *who* owns _Monkey? | 11:22 |
| Veggen | never got a reply on that one. | 11:22 |
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| Veggen | Why the hell did it have to reply on the "morning"? | 11:22 |
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| Veggen | It's just gonna confuse new users, thinking it's not a bot, trying to talk to it, etc. | 11:22 |
| Veggen | and it has *zero* value | 11:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Welcome to the wonderful world of IRC bots. :P | 11:23 |
| Veggen | GeneralAntilles: I know. I once helped draft guidelines for "acceptable bots", and _Monkey violate quite a few of them ;) | 11:24 |
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| Big_B | anybody please tell me how can i compile source code in maemo 2.2 target | 11:25 |
| Big_B | please anybody | 11:25 |
| Jaffa | Big_B: gcc, make & dpkg-buildpackage. (Depending on original source language, of course) | 11:26 |
| Big_B | ya jaffa , Actually i need gcc full command for own project to compile | 11:27 |
| Jaffa | Well, you've got gcc in Scratchbox, so it should Just Work[TM] - as long as you've got dependencies etc. | 11:27 |
| Big_B | ya | 11:28 |
| Big_B | i compiled hello.c but i don know how to compile whole project | 11:29 |
| Big_B | please help me jaffa!!! | 11:29 |
| Veggen | Big_B: how much experience, beyone, ./configure, make and make install, do you have? | 11:30 |
| Veggen | compiling things? | 11:30 |
| Veggen | compiling in maemo is not going to be easy if you don't understand compiling/linking before starting it. | 11:30 |
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| Big_B | ya | 11:32 |
| Big_B | 1./autogen.sh | 11:32 |
| Jaffa | But, the counterpoint to that is that compiling in Scratchbox really isn't any different to compiling outside Scratchbox. | 11:32 |
| Big_B | 2.makefile | 11:32 |
| Big_B | like this?? | 11:32 |
| Jaffa | Big_B: seen the tutorial? | 11:38 |
| _Monkey | I haven't seen 'the', Jaffa | 11:38 |
| Big_B | Jaffa: would you like to give the link?? | 11:38 |
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| Jaffa | _Monkey: tutorial? | 11:41 |
| _Monkey | i guess tutorial is wanting you to run sbox-config, but scratchbox tells me that command is old and to run sb-menu | 11:41 |
| Jaffa | Bah | 11:41 |
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| Jaffa | Big_B: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_2.2_Tutorial.html | 11:42 |
| Big_B | thank you Jaffa | 11:43 |
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| ArthurDentN770 | good morning | 11:47 |
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| hap | is a new n800 os version available ? | 12:17 |
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| Jaffa | Nope, mid-November when the N810 launches (at the earliest) | 12:18 |
| hap | ah ok, sux | 12:19 |
| Jaffa | Eager to get it myself, looks very polished. Happy to wait for the serious bugs to be ironed out, though | 12:22 |
| sxpert | yeah, same here. | 12:22 |
| mbuf | N810 uses same Maemo development environment? | 12:23 |
| sxpert | skipping the 800 was sound | 12:23 |
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| Big_B | i got this error when i run autogen "configure: error: Library requirements (hildon-libsmm >= 0.1.2 hildon-fmmm >= 0.1.2 sqlite3)" in maemo 2.2 target . anybody please help me | 12:31 |
| Big_B | i got this error when i run autogen "configure: error: Library requirements (hildon-libsmm >= 0.1.2 hildon-fmmm >= 0.1.2 sqlite3)" in maemo 2.2 target . anybody please help me | 12:31 |
| Big_B | Jaffa : r u bg?? | 12:32 |
| t_s_o | hmm, the N810 is a mixed blessing. sure it got gps and keyboard. but it got one less memory slot... | 12:39 |
| flip^ | i can't say i've ever needed more than 2gb internally mind | 12:40 |
| flip^ | heck i've got a 1gb and 2gb in mine and never got close to filling either (but i let my phone handle my music needs) | 12:40 |
| t_s_o | maybe so | 12:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The N800 is such a ridiculously better bargain right now. | 12:53 |
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| t_s_o | heh, and i just got a leftover 770... | 12:56 |
| t_s_o | still, its wsod and in service limbo (waiting for a response on what to do, trash it or return it) | 12:56 |
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| lardman | morning | 13:05 |
| _Monkey | aloha | 13:05 |
| lardman | what's the prognosis on video bandwidth? | 13:06 |
| lardman | Can/Are the bus/chips be driven faster to provide more bandwidth? | 13:06 |
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| lardman | hmm, tumbleweeds | 13:10 |
| * flip^ hands lardman a tumbleweed | 13:10 | |
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| GeneralAntilles_ | lardman, the word I've been hearing is, that since it's a processor design issue, it hasn't changed. | 13:12 |
| lardman | ah, but, /me looks for link.... | 13:12 |
| doublec | There's some mention of the issue here: http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html | 13:12 |
| doublec | in the comments | 13:13 |
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| doublec | "The N800 and N810 basically has the same hardware, so you can expect similar video playback behaviour (except for cases where there's been tuning, improvements and bugfixes, of course, but since IT OS 2008 runs on the N800 too, the gains will be similar). If it's really about screen bandwidth, I don't really see how driver changes could affect anything, since that's a hardware issue." | 13:13 |
| lardman | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-March/009166.html | 13:13 |
| lardman | that post indicates that the bus speed (?) can be higher, but it's unstable in some way | 13:13 |
| lardman | which is why I was wondering whether it can now be driven at higher freq (as the clock rate is higher, etc.) | 13:14 |
| lardman | @Per: no PowerVR support. Blending is done using the CPU, AFAIK. - shame | 13:15 |
| sciboy | =( | 13:15 |
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| lardman | it may yet happen I suppose | 13:15 |
| lardman | and he also said afaik.... | 13:15 |
| sciboy | Lack of PowerVR makes me sad. | 13:15 |
| lardman | I don't know about the hw, whether it makes sense to try to use it | 13:17 |
| lardman | re the bandwidth issue | 13:17 |
| doublec | there are no open source powervr drivers for linux | 13:17 |
| doublec | so a bit hard for nokia to support it | 13:17 |
| lardman | they can use a binary blob | 13:17 |
| lardman | like the wifi driver | 13:18 |
| doublec | The closed source driver does not support linux kernel 2.6.x | 13:18 |
| disq | no device program announcement yet? :P | 13:18 |
| lardman | doublec: yes it does | 13:18 |
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| doublec | really? The website I'm looking at says it does not. Got a link? | 13:18 |
| lardman | looking... | 13:19 |
| doublec | http://tinyurl.com/yyppgs | 13:19 |
| doublec | "Linux kernel 2.6 introduced major structural changes to the way driver modules are built and loaded. As a result, existing KYRO drivers are not compatible with any Linux kernel whose version is 2.6 or above. To keep using KYRO drivers, users are requested to use the latest available 2.4 Linux kernel version. We have currently no plans of providing drivers supporting updated kernels." | 13:19 |
| lardman | get it from Ti, I have it here on my desktop | 13:19 |
| sciboy | What would it take to engineer open source drivers? | 13:19 |
| lardman | prepending a reverse | 13:19 |
| doublec | someone capable of reverse engineering the existing drivers | 13:20 |
| doublec | and living in a country where that is legal | 13:20 |
| doublec | i suspect | 13:20 |
| lardman | I also wonder about Jazelle... | 13:20 |
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| lardman | not too sure about what can be released | 13:20 |
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| sciboy | Well personally I have nothing against binary blobs, it's always better than nothing at all. | 13:21 |
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| lardman | I wonder if one is allowed to release a Jazelle binary blob | 13:22 |
| lardman | if one knows how to enable it... | 13:22 |
| lardman | finally, http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12719&contentId=27458 | 13:23 |
| lardman | for omap2420 it points to the 2430 download, and there's a 2.6.x version | 13:23 |
| lardman | 2.6.10, so rather old | 13:23 |
| doublec | looking now | 13:25 |
| sciboy | Interesting. | 13:25 |
| lardman | doublec: what countries allow reverse engineering out of interest | 13:26 |
| doublec | i don't know | 13:26 |
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| lardman | it might be interesting to create an image that will match the kernel/libc/gcc/xorg versions used by the Ti download and see if it works | 13:34 |
| doublec | i still can't find a powervr driver | 13:35 |
| lardman | it's in the tarball in the zip file | 13:35 |
| doublec | must have missed it | 13:35 |
| doublec | is it the omap2430 sdk? | 13:35 |
| lardman | C:\TexasInstruments\OMAPSW GFX L16.4 SDK\binary_omap2430_gdp_linux_ogles_release\pvr.ko | 13:36 |
| lardman | yes | 13:36 |
| lardman | The kernel driver is 1002kb in size! | 13:37 |
| sxpert | ouch... | 13:37 |
| sxpert | wtf ? | 13:37 |
| sciboy | Bummer, that's a whole lot of reverse engineering. D= | 13:37 |
| sxpert | there must be a doom clone inside that driver | 13:38 |
| lardman | Everything else is fairly small | 13:39 |
| lardman | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/screenshot.jpeg as I probably can't share the file | 13:39 |
| sxpert | yuck | 13:40 |
| lardman | what, WinXP? ;) | 13:40 |
| sxpert | no. a 1Mbyte driver | 13:40 |
| lardman | I know :) | 13:40 |
| doublec | What about this SDK: http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/insider/Downloads/DocumentDownloads/index.asp?Page=PowerVRSDKs#1 | 13:41 |
| lardman | I think that's 2.4.x | 13:42 |
| * lardman needs to remember his imgtec password | 13:42 | |
| sciboy | bugmenot | 13:42 |
| sciboy | username and password | 13:42 |
| sciboy | =) | 13:43 |
| flip^ | does skype does video (on maemo)? | 13:43 |
| flip^ | well, on a n800 | 13:43 |
| doublec | no | 13:44 |
| doublec | no skype video support on n800 yet | 13:44 |
| wumpus | opengl drivers are always huge | 13:44 |
| wumpus | because there's a whole lot of old crap in opengl that does need to be implemented :p | 13:44 |
| lardman | why not make the lib large & the driver small | 13:44 |
| lardman | there can't be that much stuff to be done in the kernel driver? | 13:45 |
| wumpus | also, there is usally a lot of special casing, for optimization | 13:45 |
| wumpus | auto-generated code | 13:45 |
| flip^ | :( so i have to use google talk if i want video calling | 13:45 |
| lardman | doublec: It's an SDK, not kernel driver in there | 13:45 |
| wumpus | I agree it's not that great an idea for an embedded device though :) | 13:46 |
| lardman | wumpus: fair enough | 13:46 |
| wumpus | which is why opengl ES and such exists, but that might be too limited, I'd prefer a real opengl stack | 13:46 |
| Jaffa | Yay, announcement of a new device programme - and someone goes and asks about something which mud is perfect for on maemo-developers. Excellent :) | 13:46 |
| lardman | where's the device program announcement? | 13:47 |
| disq | i wonder how much will they give the devices for | 13:48 |
| disq | it was $125 for n800 iirc | 13:48 |
| doublec | http://flors.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/what-the-nokia-n810-means-for-maemo-developers/ | 13:49 |
| doublec | the n810 is getting a lot more attention than the n800 did | 13:49 |
| disq | because it looks like a friggin iphone? :P | 13:50 |
| Mikho | it does? | 13:50 |
| sxpert | alas, no multitouch ;-) | 13:51 |
| sciboy | doublec, A lot of users didn't seem impressed with the n800 when it started out. | 13:51 |
| doublec | true | 13:52 |
| Mikho | what are users impressed about nowadays? | 13:52 |
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| doublec | there's always the problem with a gadget like this, when they've opened it and run the included programs and ask 'now what do i do with it' | 13:52 |
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| disq | you install kagu on it. | 13:53 |
| sciboy | Will IT2008 have vorbis support included? | 13:54 |
| disq | afaik they didn't include vorbis | 13:54 |
| lardman | I'm working on it... | 13:54 |
| disq | there've been some complaints about that in maemo-users and whatnot | 13:54 |
| doublec | there is a gstreamer vorvis plugin isn't there? | 13:57 |
| lardman | yes, and tremor | 13:57 |
| disq | yes. there are two projects in maemo garage. mogg and ogg-support | 13:57 |
| lardman | which is what you want to use really | 13:57 |
| disq | mogg even works with the default music system/player. | 13:58 |
| doublec | nice | 13:58 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, the maemo-* thread about it with the ranty review is good | 13:58 |
| doublec | what does kagu use for playback? gstreamer? | 13:58 |
| disq | yep | 13:58 |
| doublec | kagu is very nice | 13:58 |
| lardman | I don;t see why Nokia don't just install the tremor gstreamer plugin and be done with it | 13:58 |
| doublec | it's the first thing i show people | 13:58 |
| disq | kagu uses the default music system (or mplayer, optionally) | 13:58 |
| disq | oh, thanks. we tried gstreamer first but it was painful to get working correctly | 13:59 |
| lardman | how so? | 14:00 |
| disq | couldn't get the end of song signal fire correctly | 14:01 |
| disq | ukmp uses gstreamer but it's hacky, really. iirc it checked for song position/percentage | 14:01 |
| sciboy | Oh, MicroB is going to be default? | 14:01 |
| disq | i want to try gstreamer again after chinook is released, though | 14:02 |
| sciboy | Cool, which reminds me I need to check out svg when my N800 arrives. | 14:02 |
| sciboy | Maybe even canvas as a pixel buffer if it's supported. | 14:02 |
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| Jaffa | sciboy: yeah, Opera's gone | 14:05 |
| disq | i wonder how good the latest microb is | 14:06 |
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| disq | the official release is still slow during page loading | 14:06 |
| Jaffa | No worse than Opera for me. | 14:07 |
| doublec | i've been trying to build microb | 14:08 |
| doublec | It's a struggle | 14:08 |
| doublec | mainly due to my lack of knowledge with building maemo stuff i suspect | 14:08 |
| sciboy | Oh, anyone got a Jaiku invite? | 14:08 |
| doublec | is it invite only? | 14:09 |
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| sciboy | I believe so. | 14:11 |
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| doublec | ahh, from the mailing list it seems that the latest microb source needs chinook | 14:15 |
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| inz | Hmm, I wonder if I should upgrade the wordpress package... | 14:16 |
| inz | The new one works, but upgrade doesn't... | 14:17 |
| inz | Maybe I should try to fix upgrade... | 14:17 |
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| koen | yay! | 14:24 |
| * lardman sets out to modify his dsp framebuffer task to perform scaling and colourspace conversion | 14:24 | |
| koen | it took me 21 seconds to find http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/unstable/4.0beta/content-comparison-3.2-to-4.0beta.html | 14:24 |
| koen | mostly because my sucky internet connection | 14:24 |
| lardman | hi koen, how are you? | 14:25 |
| koen | pretty good, apart from a cold | 14:25 |
| koen | how are you? | 14:25 |
| lardman | not bad thanks | 14:25 |
| lardman | how's openmoko coming along? When's the new phone out? | 14:26 |
| koen | slowly and "december" according to the latest gossip | 14:27 |
| czr | hey koen | 14:27 |
| koen | hey czr | 14:27 |
| lardman | koen: :) | 14:28 |
| koen | I'm trying to put 'chinook' into OE now | 14:28 |
| doublec | what is OE? | 14:29 |
| lardman | doublec: openembedded | 14:29 |
| doublec | thanks | 14:29 |
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| koen | but I'm getting stuck at nokia incompetence | 14:29 |
| lardman | koen: it would be nice to use OE to generate arbitrary binaries | 14:29 |
| koen | every maemo tarball unpacks to 1_<version> | 14:29 |
| koen | instead of <name>-<version> | 14:30 |
| disq | so make a script that runs basename, mkdir's and extracts there | 14:30 |
| lardman | just an added difficulty | 14:30 |
| disq | kinda boring tho | 14:30 |
| koen | I prefer to rant here | 14:30 |
| disq | :D | 14:30 |
| * koen will start gloating when two maemo products will have the same version number | 14:31 | |
| Jaffa | lo koen | 14:32 |
| koen | good afternoon mister Flegg | 14:32 |
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| lardman | what kernel version are we on with the 770? | 14:36 |
| lardman | 2.6.16 | 14:38 |
| |tbb| | will the wlan adapter of the n810 be the exact same as on the n800 | 14:38 |
| * lardman wonders why we have 2.6.16 kernel headers under chinook, but the n800 has 2.6.18...? | 14:40 | |
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| * lardman sees that you can perform fb updates via a mailbox command from the DSP :) | 14:54 | |
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| Tili | how is the support for audio | 15:19 |
| Tili | portaudio i wanted to use in maemo | 15:19 |
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| * DRoBeR is away: Burger Rata Strikes Back :D | 15:51 | |
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| Andy80 | hi | 15:52 |
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| Andy80 | are there any known problems with maemo.org website in the user profile section? I'vre registred and created an account. I got the confirmation email and I logged into the "Garage". But now I cannot log into Maemo.org profile... why? | 15:53 |
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| lardman | so what is this profile thing all about? What does one do to prove one's worth - list stuff on your own website? | 17:10 |
| Tak | I would imagine that relentless hacking on dsp stuff would qualify one | 17:11 |
| lardman | well perhaps, just wondering though :) | 17:11 |
| lardman | if nothing else it will force me to update my website | 17:11 |
| sciboy | Woah, Nokia has a forum. | 17:12 |
| sciboy | Intriguing. | 17:12 |
| lardman | yeah, but for at least some of it you need to pay | 17:13 |
| lardman | pay per question | 17:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's special. | 17:13 |
| sciboy | "Special" | 17:13 |
| lardman | -needs? | 17:13 |
| sciboy | Don't forget the quotation marks. | 17:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I didn't sciboy. :P | 17:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sarcasm, not finger-quotes. :P | 17:16 |
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| * sciboy googles mtpaint on the n800 | 17:24 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 17:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just installed TuxPaint | 17:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Makes me laugh | 17:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Reminds me of Kid Pix | 17:33 |
| pupnik | so you have sdp writing to framebuffer now lardman? | 17:33 |
| Sho_ | Hm, I made a Garage account, and yet can't log into https://maemo.org/. I'm assuming the two user DBs are not immediately synced, but on some kind of interval. Does anyone know the frequency? | 17:35 |
| pupnik | create another account | 17:37 |
| Sho_ | I'm going to assume that won't work because the mail address is taken now | 17:37 |
| pupnik | use another addr | 17:37 |
| pupnik | Kids love tuxpaint | 17:38 |
| Sho_ | I'm somewhat keen on using the address I used for the first account, though .. | 17:38 |
| juh0 | hmm does n800's upcoming os2008 upgrade include map application? | 17:39 |
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| wumpus | are you sure it aren't just two seperate systems, and you can register with your normal mail account again? | 17:39 |
| Sho_ | wumpus: The maemo.org "Create account" goes to the Garage account creation | 17:40 |
| Sho_ | wumpus: I'm assuming they are seperate systems, but synced on a cronjob I don't know the interval for | 17:40 |
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| Sho_ | ah, now the login works - the cronjob ran I guess ;) | 17:43 |
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| Jiten_ | juh0: even if it doesn't maemo mapper will most likely be easily installable. | 17:54 |
| zoran | the point is in preinstalled maps | 17:54 |
| Jiten_ | as right | 17:55 |
| Jiten_ | s/as/ah/ | 17:55 |
| infobot | Jiten_ meant: ah right | 17:55 |
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| zoran | infobot s/as/ah/ | 17:55 |
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| juh0 | damn wayfinder looks great, voice guidance etc http://www.wayfinder.com/?id=5436 , i'd like to use it also on n800 | 18:01 |
| juh0 | i have tried maemo mapper beta 2.0, but actually you can't compare them | 18:06 |
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| Tak | no? maybe they need to implement the Comparable interface... | 18:18 |
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| jono | hi all | 18:25 |
| jono | does quim gil come on here? | 18:25 |
| zoran | someone compiled conntrack module for any os version on maemo? | 18:25 |
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| Tak | I've seen quim in here - I'm not sure how regularly he comes in | 18:26 |
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| timeless | jono: do you need him for something in particular? | 18:29 |
| jono | any other nokia people here? | 18:29 |
| timeless | sure | 18:29 |
| jono | timeless: yeah, an interview | 18:29 |
| timeless | oh | 18:29 |
| jono | tonight on LugRadio | 18:29 |
| timeless | um, got a phone number? | 18:29 |
| jono | for him? | 18:29 |
| timeless | for you? | 18:29 |
| jono | why? | 18:29 |
| timeless | i can ask him to call you... | 18:30 |
| jono | timeless: if he can mail me thats fine - just mail me at jono AT ubuntu DOT com | 18:30 |
| timeless | got a specific message? | 18:30 |
| jono | with his number - we would like to interview him at around 8pm UTC | 18:30 |
| jono | timeless: do you work with him? | 18:30 |
| timeless | for a very loose definition, i suppose | 18:31 |
| timeless | i'm most certainly not authorized to give interviews | 18:31 |
| jono | I mean, can you call him? | 18:31 |
| timeless | i just did, no answer | 18:31 |
| jono | right | 18:31 |
| timeless | hrm, that's in 5 1/2 hrs? | 18:32 |
| jono | yep | 18:32 |
| timeless | keep in mind, that's 11pm | 18:33 |
| timeless | sms sent | 18:33 |
| timeless | no guaranees | 18:33 |
| timeless | s/e/te/ | 18:33 |
| infobot | timeless meant: no guarantees | 18:33 |
| Tak | kind of short notice | 18:33 |
| jono | ok thanks :) | 18:33 |
| jono | yeah, our current interview fell through so we would like to discuss the N810 | 18:34 |
| timeless | tak: blame anssi :) | 18:34 |
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| * Tak blame ISO instead :-P | 18:34 | |
| timeless | may i ask what the scheduled interview subject was? | 18:34 |
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| Thanatermesis | those osso applications are in gtk ? can be used on a normal linux system or needs to compile special libs and stuff ? | 18:36 |
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| jono | timeless: I can't say | 18:37 |
| jono | we are doing it in the next show | 18:37 |
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| timeless | fair enough | 18:37 |
| pupnik | Thanatermesis: your question is confused | 18:37 |
| jono | thanks timeless | 18:37 |
| Thanatermesis | pupnik, those nice gagdets that's on the desktop for configure bluetooth, wifi, etc... are simple gtk applications or its other kind of lib ? | 18:40 |
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| timeless | in theory there's an sdk and documentation | 18:41 |
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| timeless | afaiu the apis are the same ones used for gnome desktop (mostly) | 18:41 |
| Thanatermesis | mmmh, that's again a new dependency for the system.. | 18:42 |
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| * VimSi get all wuschig about the n810 | 18:43 | |
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| lardman | framebuffer gurus - any of you about here? | 18:44 |
| lardman | hmm | 18:47 |
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| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26UXJOTkTk analogue controller | 18:50 |
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| lardman | rather snazzy | 18:55 |
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| lardman | anyone about with a 770 (not running hacker edition)? | 18:57 |
| pupnik | sure | 18:57 |
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| lardman | could you take a look under /sys/platform/devices/dsp/ and look for a file that gives you the DSP gateway version number please | 18:58 |
| lardman | hang on and I'll try to be more specific | 18:58 |
| pupnik | /sys/devices/platform/dsp/ | 19:00 |
| lardman | sorry, typo on my part | 19:00 |
| lardman | would probably by ifver | 19:00 |
| pupnik | 3.2 3.3 | 19:01 |
| lardman | hmm | 19:01 |
| lardman | same as on n800 | 19:01 |
| pupnik | want a cat * on pastebin? | 19:01 |
| lardman | nah, but thanks | 19:01 |
| lardman | I've been looking though the dsp-side and arm-side kernel code... | 19:02 |
| lardman | and on the arm side there is a way to do a framebuffer update, not sure there is on the dsp side... | 19:02 |
| lardman | but there must have been for the 770 (as it had framebuffer altering dsp tasks) | 19:03 |
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| pupnik | refereing to the xsp i assume? | 19:05 |
| lardman | what's that? | 19:05 |
| pupnik | the pixel doubling | 19:06 |
| lardman | ah, no, more to do with framebuffer access and how to force an update from the DSP-side | 19:07 |
| zoran | does anybody tried to use python libraries to run as kernel module? | 19:07 |
| lardman | xsp is done on the ARM-side by the LCD controller | 19:07 |
| pupnik | all i see for this is include/asm-arm/arch-omap/omapfb.h | 19:07 |
| Jiten | does gtk/hildon have a widget that can show text and understands basic html tags like <font> <b> and such? | 19:08 |
| Tak | GtkLabel | 19:08 |
| Jiten | does it support multiline text too? | 19:08 |
| lardman | pupnik: I'll dig out the files when I get home - WinXP search fn not working well | 19:09 |
| pupnik | lardman: You have the TMS320C55x Hardware Extensions for Image/Video Applications Programmer's Reference PDF? | 19:10 |
| lardman | pupnik: what it came down to was that the arm (kernel) side of the dspgateway can accept a mailbox call to perform an update, but the DSP-side doesn't appear to #define this | 19:10 |
| pupnik | ah | 19:10 |
| lardman | pupnik: yes | 19:10 |
| lardman | dsp-side doen't seem to define it that should have read | 19:10 |
| Tak | Jiten: yes | 19:11 |
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| * lardman is waffling | 19:11 | |
| inz | Damn, I'm trying to fix sqlite-wordpress upgrade | 19:12 |
| inz | sqlite 2.x doesn't support alter table :( | 19:12 |
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| Jiten | Tak: looks like <font> will not work. | 19:14 |
| Jiten | neither does <br> ... it doesn't quite do enough :/ | 19:15 |
| Tak | no, it takes literal linebreaks | 19:16 |
| Tak | you'll probably need gtkhtml for more complete html rendering | 19:16 |
| lardman | are there actually members of the public who have n810s already? | 19:17 |
| Jiten | does maemo have it? | 19:17 |
| Jiten | lardman: yes, there are several reviews out already | 19:17 |
| lardman | Jiten: any useful info in them - dmesg output, list of kernel modules, etc.? | 19:18 |
| Jiten | I haven't seen any. | 19:18 |
| Tak | not sure | 19:18 |
| timeless | jono: ok, quim ponged, hopefully he'll poke you shortly | 19:18 |
| * sp3000 hungry | 19:19 | |
| * sp3000 homes | 19:19 | |
| mazzen | hi! i try to flash gregale on my nokia n770. but i always get "Finishing flashing... Sending request 0x52 failed!" i used SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_770.php. any ideas? | 19:22 |
| lardman | what's happened to http://www.maemoapps.com/ ? | 19:22 |
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| Tak | mazzen: which flasher are you using? | 19:22 |
| mazzen | i used this: sudo ./flasher-2.0 -r SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R | 19:23 |
| mazzen | but i tried flasher3-0-static also | 19:23 |
| Jiten | I guess I get to use GtkTextView widgets with a self built parser. | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | mazzen: wrong command line, use -F, not -r | 19:24 |
| mgedmin | flasher -f -F SU-18-blablabla.bin -R | 19:24 |
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| disq | upgrading my sbox from 1.0.7 to apophis r4 (1.0.8) with apt. hope it works and doesn't break my previous configurations | 19:24 |
| disq | gotta try some chinook sdk love | 19:25 |
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| lardman | do we know whether the non-beta will change anything significant (like the version of scratchbox?) | 19:26 |
| disq | not sure | 19:26 |
| disq | the initial announcement says "the beta sdk has known issues and some missing packages" | 19:27 |
| disq | but afaik r4 is the latest sbox1 there is | 19:27 |
| lardman | presumably it will all be tied down by mid November | 19:27 |
| mazzen | mgedmin: thanks, but if do " sudo ./flasher-2.0 -f -F SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin -R" the flashing process doesnt start | 19:28 |
| disq | i'll compile maemopad+/rdesktop for 4.x as well as try to port maemoscrobbler (the cp plugin could give me some headache) | 19:28 |
| mazzen | mgedmin: ah! it works with the flasher3-0 | 19:29 |
| mazzen | mgedmin: thanks! | 19:29 |
| czr | sp3000, I see great progress :-) | 19:29 |
| lardman | strange that, is it a change in the file format I wonder? | 19:29 |
| disq | konttori: hey. around? had time to test kagu in 4.0 yet? | 19:30 |
| disq | i want a multipart replacement for wget | 19:31 |
| disq | downloading sbox 60k/s is no fun | 19:31 |
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| * mgedmin once accidentally shaped himself to 30 KB/s, and that was not fun | 19:33 | |
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| sciboy | Do I use GPE for todo lists? | 19:34 |
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| ||cw | you can, there are a couple other PIM options too | 19:35 |
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| sciboy | Which would you recommend? | 19:35 |
| Tak | hmm, it would have been nice if http://tabletwiki.blogspot.com/2007/10/use-n800-to-play-classic-arcade-games.html had filed a bug... | 19:36 |
| Jiten | be sure to leave him a note that it might be useful to notify the developer if something doesn't work. | 19:38 |
| Jiten | that is... file a bug on him ;) | 19:39 |
| pupnik | people are conditioned to not contact developers from the windowz/commercial world | 19:39 |
| Jiten | I know | 19:39 |
| lardman | see you later chaps | 19:41 |
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| lopz | buenos dias xD | 19:42 |
| Tak | heh, I responded on ITT | 19:42 |
| ||cw | sciboy: can't, been to long since I used them | 19:43 |
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| pupnik | did you see the InfoNES emulator Tak? http://pupnik.de/InfoNES_0.01_armel.tgz | 19:51 |
| pupnik | There's an updated core for it, but it mainly fixes compatibility issues. | 19:51 |
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| sciboy | Oh, the n810 has 2GB built in. | 20:00 |
| Tak | compatibility? | 20:01 |
| sciboy | Eh, the IT2008 will allow clocking to 400mhz? | 20:04 |
| pupnik | the people who claim that don't back it up with evidence | 20:04 |
| Jaffa | There's mention that a "Nokia product manager" said it... we'll see | 20:05 |
| sciboy | It won't be long before we find out anyhow. | 20:05 |
| Jaffa | First release of Java-based tablet-encode (successor/sibling to Perl-based 770-encode) should be released tonight. | 20:05 |
| Jaffa | Neatly coinciding with the device programme :-) | 20:05 |
| disq | it's not impossible. igor stoppa from nokia was working on power management and dynamic cpu speed stuff he even had a presentation posted in maemo-devel about running the n800 at 400mhz etc | 20:05 |
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| wumpus | heh, they probably didn't put it at 400mhz to prevent the battery from draining even faster | 20:07 |
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| sciboy | Jaffa, Device programme? | 20:08 |
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| czr | Jaffa, tablet-encode? | 20:09 |
| czr | sciboy, http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192708879.html | 20:10 |
| sciboy | Ah that. | 20:10 |
| czr | heh. have to love the second comment though. "I want a device, too." | 20:10 |
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| Tak | heh @ Jaffa | 20:10 |
| czr | hmm. how come the main page shows that there are 5 comments, and the page itself only shows 3 of them? | 20:11 |
| suihkulokki | comments stuck in moderation que? | 20:13 |
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| czr | suihkulokki, there is moderation in maemo.org? | 20:16 |
| czr | on even. | 20:16 |
| suihkulokki | no idea | 20:16 |
| czr | let me see | 20:18 |
| Atarii | anyone got xmame workin on 2007os? | 20:18 |
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| Tak | Atarii: yes - what's the issue? | 20:20 |
| pupnik | Nokia announced very high battery life playing music - looks like improved power management and/or dynamic cpu clocking | 20:21 |
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| disq | dyncpu could be there | 20:24 |
| TPC | maybe they are upgrading to a 2.6.22 or later kernel | 20:25 |
| TPC | that kernel had some new features that saves power | 20:25 |
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| TPC | a friend of mine got 20% longer battery life with it | 20:25 |
| TPC | on his laptop | 20:25 |
| * flip^ reads up and wonders if it'd ever be possible for an end user to get a n800 running/modded to run at 400mhz | 20:27 | |
| TPC | whats the point? | 20:27 |
| _Monkey | i heard the point was to make the user happy | 20:27 |
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| TPC | I'd rather go lower in mhz, and get longer battery | 20:27 |
| sciboy | _Monkey wins. | 20:27 |
| _Monkey | sciboy: huh? | 20:27 |
| flip^ | TPC: the n800 is great for most things, but on some things (like decoding video that hasn't been specifically reencoded for the device) it can often fall just a *little* short of smooth playback... and so on | 20:28 |
| flip^ | and for geeky curiousity | 20:28 |
| flip^ | ok, quite a bit for geeky curiousity | 20:28 |
| sciboy | TPC, There were many games under the GP2X that required overclocking to play smoothly. | 20:28 |
| sciboy | It's an option that'd be nice for developers and users to have. | 20:28 |
| TPC | GP2X is a different thing | 20:28 |
| TPC | it used replaceable batteries, so battery life wasn't as important | 20:28 |
| TPC | you could get 10 rechargables and bring as spare | 20:29 |
| sciboy | Heh, tell that to the guys who use it. | 20:29 |
| TPC | its obviously still important, but not in the same way | 20:29 |
| mgedmin | TPC: some say that running the CPU at a higher speed may consume less power because running slower takes longer | 20:29 |
| sciboy | They underclocked it a lot to. | 20:29 |
| sciboy | too* | 20:29 |
| sciboy | It's mainly just about scaling to the demands of an application. | 20:30 |
| Jiten | you mean, running at low speeds until some software actually needs to the power? | 20:31 |
| TPC | mgedmin, that is stupid | 20:31 |
| TPC | a faster cpu might have more efficient power consumption | 20:32 |
| * mgedmin searches for the reference | 20:32 | |
| sciboy | Pretty much, applications don't require 100% of the power 100% of the time. | 20:32 |
| pupnik | you can take along 10 BP-5L batteries too TPC | 20:32 |
| TPC | pupnik, BP-5L batteries are alot more expensive | 20:32 |
| TPC | the GP2X use normal AA ones | 20:32 |
| pupnik | why do i see many bp-5ls li-polymer batteries on ebay for 2-7 euro? | 20:33 |
| TPC | mgedmin, but nothing is stoping the cpu manufacturers from implementing that more efficient power consumption in their slower cpus | 20:33 |
| TPC | except that they wouldn't make as much money | 20:33 |
| sciboy | pupnik, Compare the amperage. | 20:33 |
| suihkulokki | instead of foaming on irc, read the power managment presentation from: http://maemo.org/intro/presentations/ | 20:34 |
| pupnik | all say 1700 mah | 20:34 |
| TPC | can you get batteries for the N800 that last longer than the included one? | 20:34 |
| sciboy | Huh... | 20:34 |
| disq | see http://www.slideshare.net/igor_stoppa_nokia/power-management-for-the-nokia-internet-tablets | 20:34 |
| pupnik | some say 1800 mAh | 20:34 |
| TPC | without having to make any case modifications to make them fit that is | 20:34 |
| sciboy | TPC, You can get an external battery pack that lasts 2 days with wifi on. | 20:34 |
| disq | suihkulokki: exactly. | 20:34 |
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| sciboy | The N800 charges off it. | 20:35 |
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| sciboy | Probably much easier than carrying around 10 BP-5L's | 20:36 |
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| disq | anybody have an n810 right now? i'm wondering if they changed the systemui (power key menu) | 20:37 |
| disq | shortkeypress=softpoweroff longkeypress=menu is so useful they should make it the default | 20:38 |
| TPC | softpoweroff, is that locking the screen and keyboard? | 20:39 |
| TPC | if not it would be useless | 20:39 |
| TPC | but if it is, then I agree with you | 20:39 |
| disq | it is screen turned off with locked keypad/touchscreen | 20:39 |
| TPC | yeah, thats what I meant | 20:39 |
| disq | not the "lock screen and keys" though. | 20:39 |
| disq | in softpoweroff mode touchscreen or keypad events are all ignored, and screen is turned off. to get it back you need to keep your finger on the powerbutton for a few (1? 2?) secs | 20:40 |
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| timeless | disq/tpc/sp3000: any idea what's up w/ that color shift? is it significant? should i push back to the art people here? | 20:44 |
| timeless | and who noticed/why? | 20:44 |
| disq | ours is just a little more red | 20:45 |
| timeless | yeah, we compared and observed a slight difference | 20:46 |
| timeless | is it significant enough that i should push back? | 20:46 |
| timeless | i have about 2 hours and 0 build engineers/artists | 20:46 |
| sp3000 | heh | 20:46 |
| timeless | btw sp3000's page made it, at least as far as we can tell | 20:46 |
| timeless | so thanks to all of you for helping out | 20:47 |
| * timeless makes a note to add that to the announcement | 20:47 | |
| * timeless frowns | 20:47 | |
| timeless | this might be some sort of lesson learned entry | 20:47 |
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| disq | :) | 20:49 |
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| disq | good to hear. and the bright tone is not an issue. but of course if you need more time to polish other stuff, you could use it as an excuse :P | 20:49 |
| timeless | we're too schedule driven for me to be able to use that excuse | 20:50 |
| timeless | there's actually one window, and i'll be using it, but not for that | 20:50 |
| timeless | you'll see in my announcement, which i might publish now. | 20:50 |
| timeless | I need to review it | 20:50 |
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| disq | mmm. somehow no fm radio in n810. maybe they just didn't bother to compile it | 20:55 |
| timeless | um | 20:55 |
| * czr whines softly to sp3000 about the exec | 20:55 | |
| timeless | ther'es no fm radio hardware | 20:55 |
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| sp3000 | czr: *whimper* | 20:56 |
| disq | it didn't have RDS anyway :P | 20:56 |
| czr | :-) | 20:56 |
| sp3000 | didn't occur to me at the time :) | 20:56 |
| czr | np :-) | 20:56 |
| czr | didn't occur to me on the first post of the bug either. | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | one of the n810 review claimed it had an fm *transmitter* | 20:58 |
| mgedmin | for beaming your songs to a car radio | 20:58 |
| czr | or maybe it has a lazer. | 20:58 |
| disq | lasers ftw | 20:58 |
| mgedmin | heh, for ripping audio CDs | 20:59 |
| czr | ripping all kinds of other stuff as well | 20:59 |
| mgedmin | "rotate the CD slowly while aiming the n810's laser at the grooves" | 20:59 |
| czr | heh | 20:59 |
| czr | that's what the GPS is for | 20:59 |
| mgedmin | for stabilisation, right | 20:59 |
| czr | it tells you how to rotate the device evenly around the CD | 20:59 |
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| mgedmin | this is the review that claims an FM transmitter: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html | 21:06 |
| timeless | sp3000? | 21:07 |
| timeless | i'm looking for a place to get a card | 21:07 |
| timeless | something like, "you're our hero" | 21:07 |
| mgedmin | it also mentions "class 8 and 9" AJAX :-) | 21:07 |
| timeless | (in Finnish) | 21:07 |
| sp3000 | eep | 21:07 |
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| sciboy | mgedmin, Considering the inclusion of GPS it makes sense for in-car hook up. | 21:11 |
| disq | "Hardware key to lock touchscreen and keys" oooh. is that what it is? the top-right key? i thought it had something to do with gps | 21:12 |
| disq | uh. i currently have 30 tabs open in opera (not the n800 one :P ) | 21:14 |
| sciboy | Says the screen is brighter too, wonder what that means under direct sunlight. | 21:15 |
| czr | sciboy, it activates the lazer. | 21:16 |
| sp3000 | no need to keep eyes open even | 21:16 |
| sciboy | About that, does it come packaged with minions or do we still have to purchase those seperately? | 21:16 |
| mgedmin | it comes with a gps so that minions can find | 21:17 |
| mgedmin | you | 21:17 |
| sciboy | I assume that also means a steady stream of hero's? | 21:17 |
| sciboy | I need to feed the dragons and lazer-porpoises you know... | 21:18 |
| kala | when I'm using ITOS 2007 hackers edition on the N770, should I install Gizmo for N800 or for N770 ? | 21:20 |
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| disq | texrat in ITT: "As for the speed increase, what I've read says that it will occur in only certain circumstances" | 21:26 |
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| czr | disq, "when the device is powered off"? :-) | 21:27 |
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| sp3000 | timeless: ok, my card finding skills ~ 0 | 21:29 |
| timeless | heh | 21:29 |
| sp3000 | I don't know of an approximately equivalent likely phrase | 21:29 |
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| Tak | wrt prospective n810 laser: "Can I attach it to my shark?" | 21:32 |
| mgedmin | kala: I never tried OS2007HE, but my understanding is that the N800 version is more likely to work (but only if it doesn't depend on new ARM6 instructions), but the 770 might also work | 21:32 |
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| czr | Tak, I'm sure there will be some shark-kit-accessory available later | 21:34 |
| czr | although giving GPS capabilities to sharks is pretty scary | 21:35 |
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| Tak | it will strike a blow for shark rights | 21:36 |
| Tak | no longer will they be forced to wander aimlessly through our planet's oceans | 21:37 |
| czr | indeed. | 21:37 |
| czr | the jaws movies will have to be re-made. | 21:37 |
| sp3000 | won't somebody think of the pirates | 21:37 |
| czr | and will be slightly more interesting too | 21:37 |
| czr | jaws 2000. | 21:37 |
| SLi | Yeah, they will have to devise a way of making us people think they still wander aimlessly while they further their secret plans. | 21:38 |
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| czr | sp3000, the swedes deserve all the sharks that are headed that way! :-) | 21:38 |
| czr | + yarr. | 21:38 |
| Tak | my 770 just rebooted spontaneously - I think it's rebelling against all this shark/laser talk | 21:39 |
| czr | Tak, maybe it doesn't know how to swim. yet. | 21:40 |
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| Tak | mediaplayer/dsp_dld | 21:42 |
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| Tak | ...which is odd, bc it was paused... | 21:43 |
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| timeless | _monkey tpc? | 21:46 |
| _Monkey | timeless: bugger all, i dunno | 21:46 |
| timeless | _monkeydisq | 21:46 |
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| timeless | _monkey disq? | 21:46 |
| _Monkey | disq is probably correct | 21:46 |
| timeless | _monkey forget disq | 21:46 |
| _Monkey | timeless: I forgot disq | 21:46 |
| disq | why? i am always correct | 21:48 |
| timeless | i kinda want to credit you by name if you don't mind | 21:49 |
| * sciboy grabs Firefox 3. | 21:49 | |
| SLi | Anybody else notice how painful it is to use emacs on n800? ;) | 21:50 |
| wumpus | using emacs is always self-torture :) | 21:50 |
| SLi | :) | 21:50 |
| deejoe | heh | 21:50 |
| deejoe | editor wars, the gift that keeps on giving. | 21:50 |
| SLi | Being able to use vi nicely took some time too before I figured out how to type ESC. | 21:51 |
| wumpus | yeah, vi is another such jewel :) | 21:51 |
| deejoe | yeah, I need to use ^[ on my ThinkOutside keyboard. | 21:51 |
| derf | vi works great on the N800. | 21:51 |
| derf | You really start to appreciate all those key-stroke saving features. | 21:51 |
| wumpus | yeah, saving keystrokes is very nice if you have to use the onscreen keyboard | 21:52 |
| SLi | Yeah, but I had to figure out how to add ESC to the terminal shortcuts :) | 21:52 |
| SLi | But yes, vi is definitely less painful than emacs on n800 with on-screen kb. | 21:52 |
| wumpus | generally I just ssh from my desktop machine though to edit files | 21:53 |
| SLi | Yeah, that's the easiest way. | 21:53 |
| wumpus | a bluetooth keyboard would be nice in this case, but I don't use the device for typing work | 21:54 |
| kala | mgedmin: thanks. it seems that the 770 version is more stable. but I'm not yet able to make any calls :) | 21:54 |
| disq | timeless: name? need my full name? | 21:55 |
| wumpus | I wonder if the keyboard in the N810 is any good | 21:55 |
| mgedmin | SLi: don't you like the hardware Esc button? | 21:55 |
| derf | SLi: There's a hardware escape key. | 21:56 |
| SLi | There is? | 21:56 |
| deejoe | yup | 21:57 |
| SLi | Which one is it? :) | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | it's a secret button | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | the little round one with the arrow | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | that goes to the prev page in the browser | 21:57 |
| SLi | Ah. | 21:57 |
| SLi | Nice to know :) | 21:57 |
| deejoe | indeed. | 21:58 |
| SLi | Then it should be almost possible to use emacs too :P | 21:58 |
| deejoe | as for keyboards, I'm trying to get to the point where I can leave the laptop at home more and more. Having a BT keyboard helps with that. | 21:59 |
| SLi | Although I'm not sure if the terminal supports ctrl-space, never got that to work when trying to use emacs through ssh. Although I must admit using emacs with the on-screen kb is a bit pointless perhaps. | 21:59 |
| wumpus | deejoe: but isn't carrying around a keyboard and the device just as much hassle as carring a laptop? | 21:59 |
| sciboy | http://rig.vlad1.com/~vladimir/canvas/cdemo1.html <- Can someone test this with MicroB? | 22:00 |
| wumpus | I suppose a bt keyboard takes more space than the device itself | 22:00 |
| sciboy | Does it work, and does it work smoothly? | 22:00 |
| deejoe | wumpus: not my behemoth 15.4" beast | 22:01 |
| deejoe | I can fit folding keyboard and n800 in my waist pack. | 22:01 |
| wumpus | nice | 22:02 |
| deejoe | I haven't weighed the two, though. I suspect the weight ratio is closer than the volume ration--the keyboard is heavy. | 22:02 |
| SLi | sciboy: I only get the title (h1?) and a short vertical red line below the C, a bit to the left. | 22:02 |
| deejoe | volume ratio* | 22:02 |
| sciboy | SLi, That's wierd. | 22:03 |
| keesj | " canvas item? | 22:03 |
| sciboy | Yep? | 22:03 |
| keesj | sciboy: that's the "new canvas item" | 22:03 |
| wumpus | probably the battery that makes it heavy | 22:03 |
| sciboy | keesj, "new canvas item" meaning what? | 22:03 |
| SLi | Although hmm. I get the same after I choose Opera. I wonder if my render engine choice thing works. | 22:03 |
| sciboy | SLi, It's for Mozilla. | 22:04 |
| deejoe | wumpus: nah. it's just one AAA battery | 22:04 |
| keesj | <canvas id="c1" width="500" height="300"...></canvas> | 22:04 |
| SLi | sciboy, yeah, but I chose Set engine -> MicroB in the n800 browser menu. | 22:04 |
| sciboy | What about it, keesj? Firefox 2 has had it supported for quite a while now. | 22:05 |
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| sciboy | Since MicroB supposedly uses Gecko 1.9, why doesn't it work? | 22:05 |
| SLi | I'm not sure my browser used MicroB even if I chose it, because it looks identical in the Opera engine. | 22:06 |
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| wumpus | microb probably drops some features to save memory etc | 22:09 |
| sciboy | That's a bummer though, that means I don't have a pixel buffer to do effects. =( | 22:09 |
| sciboy | The alternative is everything has to be prerendered, this game is going to be using quite a bit of space. =/ | 22:09 |
| keesj | perhaps that flash is better suited, programming it using mtasc looks a lot like the javascript code in the browser | 22:11 |
| SLi | Hmmh, is there a separate microb application or is it just a engine plugin for the n800 browser? | 22:12 |
| sciboy | Nah, screw flash. | 22:12 |
| keesj | haha | 22:12 |
| SLi | Because I can't get it to use MicroB even if there's that choice in the menu. | 22:13 |
| sciboy | The game is being done in javascript, if I don't have a pixel buffer to prepare svg graphics at the beginning of a level instead of when it comes on screen, I'll have to substitute with prerendered png sprite sheets. | 22:13 |
| Okko | SLi: it is another engine. there was some setting that had to be changed so that the menu appears. | 22:14 |
| SLi | Okko, the menu does appear, but at least the user agent doesn't change regardless of the setting. | 22:14 |
| Okko | SLi: try some ajax site and maybe you can tell a difference. might be a bug in the user agent string? | 22:14 |
| Okko | SLi: (just guessing) | 22:15 |
| SLi | Hmm, maybe. I'll try to find a difference. | 22:15 |
| sp3000 | sciboy: vlad's canvas thing wfm on the microb I have | 22:15 |
| sciboy | wfm? | 22:15 |
| SLi | Should it reload the current page with the new engine when I change the engine or do I need to refresh? | 22:15 |
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| sciboy | sp3000, Does the animation appear smooth? | 22:16 |
| sp3000 | sciboy: wfm is worksforme | 22:16 |
| sp3000 | fairly | 22:16 |
| sciboy | Cool that's great news. | 22:16 |
| sp3000 | if you get all the elts growing at the same time it gets a bit slideshowey but then that happens on my laptop too so meh | 22:17 |
| sp3000 | and, uh, if you're not at zoom=100% ... :O | 22:17 |
| czr | hmm. some flash game? | 22:18 |
| sciboy | czr, Hmm? | 22:18 |
| SLi | Now I think I have microb working. | 22:18 |
| czr | sciboy, what are you talking about? :-) | 22:18 |
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| czr | it's not lazers with sharks.. I'd recognize that anywhere. | 22:19 |
| Lariso | does anyone know if samba server was ported to run on os2007he ? | 22:19 |
| sciboy | czr, I'll be trying to do a game for the N800 using javascript. | 22:19 |
| czr | sciboy, that's evil. EVIL. :-) | 22:19 |
| czr | does it work? mind you, I only have the default user image on mine (no microb) | 22:20 |
| SLi | sciboy, ok, now I see your canvas demo correctly. Somehow my browser just didn't use microb even when I told it to. | 22:20 |
| sciboy | SLi, Thanks. =) | 22:20 |
| sciboy | czr, I can't use SVG because that'd get too laggy since it renders when it comes on screen. | 22:21 |
| SLi | Now it also gives a different user agent string. :) | 22:21 |
| * czr nods | 22:21 | |
| sciboy | czr, So instead I had two options, render everything out to PNG, or use canvas to create a pixel buffer at the beginning of a level. | 22:21 |
| czr | is SVG useable even on N800? | 22:21 |
| czr | I mean, not very very slow-like. | 22:21 |
| SLi | SVG... it's a great idea gone horribly wrong, IMO. | 22:22 |
| czr | svg-tiny is pretty ok | 22:22 |
| ds3 | GNash port? | 22:22 |
| czr | some of the more obscure stuff like filters and text stuff is pretty difficult to do properly imho | 22:22 |
| Lariso | anyone know of an easy way of putting a status message on the home screen when a shell script runs ? | 22:22 |
| sciboy | Depends how simple the graphic is, I was looking at opacity, blur and rotation on bitmap graphics. | 22:23 |
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| sciboy | czr, Hence my need for that pixel buffer. ;) | 22:23 |
| czr | Lariso, yup. give me a sec | 22:23 |
| SLi | Rather complex, very ambiguous standard documents, and the repeated mistake (from postscript) of making it turing complete :P If I understand correctly, it didn't strive to be a flash replacement, it was made turing complete only because it could be done... I might be wrong though. | 22:23 |
| Lariso | czr: thanks | 22:23 |
| czr | Lariso, check the example in the start of the bug report: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2114 | 22:23 |
| czr | it uses d-bus to send request for an "info dialog" | 22:24 |
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| czr | there are similar other mechanisms as well (infoprint being the other one) | 22:24 |
| czr | but I hope your message doesn't contain spaces! ;-) | 22:24 |
| Lariso | that's fab thanks | 22:24 |
| Lariso | well, spaces are not essential ;) | 22:24 |
| * czr nods | 22:24 | |
| Lariso | one day i'll work out python..but for now shell scripts are enough | 22:25 |
| sp3000 | sciboy: something like http://ctho.ath.cx/toys/rollercoaster.html doesn't fare that well :) | 22:25 |
| SLi | I must admit I feel somewhat horrified in the n800 world, installing all stuff from random sources. Too long away from Windows, I guess. | 22:25 |
| * sp3000 gets about 1fps on that | 22:25 | |
| derf | SLi: It's different when you can go read the source code. | 22:26 |
| czr | Lariso, if you need other options, you'll have to read the source code for libosso | 22:26 |
| czr | Lariso, look for "infoprint" implementation and the symbolic constants giving the D-Bus method names | 22:26 |
| Lariso | lol that was easy! | 22:26 |
| SLi | derf, yes, I know. But I'm too used to having the source available with apt-get source, most(?) maemo repositories don't seem to offer source packages. (Are they even supported the same way as in Debian?) | 22:26 |
| Lariso | ok will do | 22:26 |
| sciboy | sp3000, My game is staying well within the realm of 2D. =P | 22:27 |
| Lariso | this run-standalone.sh script contains the hooks for sending gui-stuff i assume | 22:27 |
| sp3000 | Lariso: it does some env defs and such | 22:27 |
| derf | SLi: Most people don't do development on the device itself. | 22:27 |
| sp3000 | you may not need it esp except in sb | 22:27 |
| czr | Lariso, no, not really. it just pulls some environmental variables and then _incorrectly_ just invokes the rest of the arguments | 22:28 |
| SLi | derf, yeah, I don't either, I have scratchbox, but still. | 22:28 |
| sciboy | sp3000, Also I'll be using canvas in a fairly minimal way aswell, it's just there to render graphics before they even come on screen, making it significantly quicker while the game is running. | 22:28 |
| czr | Lariso, dbus-send is a generic small utility to send d-bus method calls. | 22:28 |
| derf | Anyway... I've complained about the lack of an organized repository before. | 22:28 |
| derf | It does not seem like a problem Nokia is terribly interested in fixing. | 22:28 |
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| czr | Lariso, and com.nokia.statusbar is the "service" through which you can ask for simple dialogs and silly things. | 22:29 |
| Lariso | ok i think i'll be able to get on with that | 22:30 |
| Lariso | thanks | 22:30 |
| czr | np | 22:30 |
| Tak | the problem is that, if nokia offered an "official," organized repository and enforced debianlike standards, everybody would complain that it's too difficult and just host their own repos anyway | 22:30 |
| * czr wishes, once more, that Nokia would document the d-bus interfaces. | 22:30 | |
| Lariso | it's not for anything fun, just for me to debug all the little scripts i'm writing to do awesome stuff with my n770 :) | 22:30 |
| Tak | hell, that's already happening with garage extras | 22:30 |
| sp3000 | http://ctho.ath.cx/toys/popsquares.html pretty. | 22:31 |
| Tak | best screensaver evar | 22:31 |
| derf | Tak: That's because the normal model is that the distribution maintains the repository, not the software developers. | 22:32 |
| czr | aww. that's pretty | 22:32 |
| Tak | derf: the debian developers maintain the repository | 22:32 |
| derf | Right. But not the authors of the actual packages. | 22:33 |
| derf | Excluding perhaps some Debian-specific packages, but those are completely dwarfed by the volume of non-Debian specific packages. | 22:33 |
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| * czr wonders for a very very short moment whether he should port the real-time ifs-generator to N800 ( http://koltsoff.com/pub/cloud9/cloud9.png ). That's about 15M particles (with a lot of other stuff as well, static pictures don't really do justice to it) | 22:33 | |
| sciboy | sp3000, One sec, want to find some fun javascript examples. | 22:33 |
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| deejoe | I'd very much appreciate a repository up to the standards of debian or ubuntu | 22:34 |
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| czr | speaking of screen savers ;-) | 22:34 |
| Tak | heh - the difference is that nokia *wants* people to develop software for maemo, and debian couldn't give a shit less if people's software makes it into debian | 22:34 |
| SLi | Ok, repository.maemo.org seems to have sources for everything. :) | 22:34 |
| derf | And I bet you the actuall _people_ who do Debian development and Debian package management do not overlap much. | 22:34 |
| deejoe | binary repository, that is. | 22:34 |
| derf | Tak: One of the reasons I stopped using Debian. | 22:34 |
| Tak | nokia has to become the 400kg yeti before it gets a herd of people drooling to become maemo repo maintainers | 22:34 |
| sciboy | sp3000, http://www.dhteumeuleu.com/dhtml/nav-3D.html | 22:35 |
| deejoe | it's a pet peeve of mine to see people extol apt, when in fact it's not apt, but the quality of the repository that makes it work | 22:35 |
| deejoe | or, as in the case of my n800 and it's slew of broken repositories, not work. | 22:35 |
| Tak | derf: and yet you're begging for debianlike structure | 22:35 |
| Tak | deejoe: it's both apt and the repos | 22:35 |
| IceTux | does anybody know if the new nokia n810 has got an alu case | 22:35 |
| deejoe | apt may be necessary, but it's far from sufficient, as is implied when people extol apt with nary a peep about repository quality. | 22:36 |
| derf | Tak: It's not the structure that's broken. | 22:36 |
| czr | it's the dependencies and their quality really (repo quality I guess) | 22:36 |
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| SLi | apt has the nice enabling concept of Suggests: and Recommends:, although I guess those are not used by maemo? And perhaps other systems have copied that by now, I don't know. | 22:36 |
| VimS | IceTux: from the pictures, it looks like alu at least some kind of metal ;) | 22:36 |
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| Tak | deejoe: gigo | 22:36 |
| IceTux | ok thanks | 22:36 |
| derf | _Users_ benefit from having an organized, central repository. | 22:36 |
| czr | I managed to break the repos on my device within two hours of using it afaim | 22:36 |
| deejoe | yup | 22:36 |
| SLi | But other than that, I agree that the Debian package repository is very high quality indeed. | 22:36 |
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| derf | But to get there Nokia might have to *gasp* pay some people to work on such a thing. | 22:37 |
| Tak | derf: only if there are an army of maintainers | 22:37 |
| derf | I don't think there's that much maemo software that it would take an army. | 22:37 |
| VimS | couldn't it made simpler | 22:37 |
| VimS | i mean we have the garage right? | 22:38 |
| sciboy | Actually could someone try this in MicroB and tell me how smooth the animation is? | 22:38 |
| sciboy | http://www.dhteumeuleu.com/dhtml/BkgMS-2.html | 22:38 |
| VimS | if every projetct on the garage was able to upload their packages wouldn't it be simple to just make ONE repo out of it ? | 22:39 |
| lopz | brb | 22:39 |
| sciboy | That's about as demanding as my game would be. | 22:39 |
| Tak | IMO the garage could become a lot of what people want | 22:39 |
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| derf | It could, with some work. | 22:39 |
| derf | It doesn't look like it's going to. | 22:39 |
| VimS | at the moment it missing a good search funktion an a list... i liked browsing the old maemo repo site :( | 22:39 |
| SLi | sciboy, maybe 3-5 fps. | 22:40 |
| Tak | the first major step toward making it happen is for the garage extras repo to be included in the preinstalled AM sources | 22:40 |
| sciboy | SLi, Bugger. | 22:40 |
| m-vo | Tak, it will be in OS 2008 (aka Chinook, aka what the N810 comes with) | 22:41 |
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| VimS | tak: think that could be difficult because of copyright issues? | 22:41 |
| sciboy | I'll have to see how I could work the content around that once the device arrives. | 22:41 |
| Tak | m-vo: killer | 22:41 |
| VimS | sniff... | 22:42 |
| SLi | sciboy, but then it's bigger than the screen, with scroll bars. | 22:42 |
| * Tak mentally associate m-vo with mailing list content | 22:42 | |
| VimS | any chance the will be a hackerOS2008 ? | 22:42 |
| sciboy | SLi, And the tiling probably doesn't help either. | 22:42 |
| * VimS huggs his 770 | 22:42 | |
| m-vo | the extras repo will be disabled, tho. | 22:42 |
| Lariso | ok so i can just run dbus-send directly from a prompt.. i don't need run-standalone | 22:42 |
| Tak | so...it's included, but disabled? | 22:43 |
| czr | Lariso, on the device yes | 22:43 |
| m-vo | Yes. | 22:43 |
| Lariso | ahh ok | 22:43 |
| sp3000 | sciboy: that page just does black for me on microb for whatever reason | 22:43 |
| czr | Lariso, on SDK you need run-standalone.sh | 22:43 |
| Tak | doesn't that seem kind of useless? | 22:43 |
| sciboy | SLi, But the current plan had about 4 objects scrolling around on screen most of the time, if that doesn't work I'll have to cut back a lot. =P | 22:43 |
| sp3000 | (the former one works fine although slow) | 22:43 |
| * Lariso wonders what else dbus-send can do | 22:43 | |
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| VimS | Tak: i think it will be up to the user to activate them ;) | 22:43 |
| czr | Lariso, dbus-send doesn't do all that much. but there's a lot of stuff sitting on the d-bus that can. | 22:44 |
| SLi | sciboy, I'd imagine that might be doable. | 22:44 |
| Lariso | for some reason i am reminded of when I used to hack about on my old psion 3 | 22:44 |
| Tak | ...which kind of makes it useless | 22:44 |
| Lariso | (not suggesting this is anywhere as simple!) | 22:44 |
| Tak | unless the user will be helpfully prompted or something | 22:44 |
| VimS | we'll see | 22:45 |
| Tak | there's already a huge clickthrough warning about nonNokia software | 22:45 |
| czr | Lariso, there are almost no docs on the d-bus stuff available on the device though. so if you really want to find out, you'll have to do a lot of "hacking" around. | 22:45 |
| * VimS can't wait until november | 22:45 | |
| t_s_o | any info on the N810 video bandwidth? | 22:45 |
| Lariso | that's ok, it gives me something to do at work | 22:45 |
| m-vo | Well, it is easy to enable it once you discover the "Catalogues" dialog, and we hope that giving the extras repo the special status of being pre-configured makes it more desirable for people to put their packages into it. | 22:46 |
| VimS | then the iphone comes out here too | 22:46 |
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| Tak | has anything been done to increase the discoverability of the Catalogues dialog? | 22:46 |
| m-vo | I'd say there isn't enough QA in front of the extras repository yet to feel confident about enabling it by default. | 22:47 |
| m-vo | tak, no. | 22:47 |
| sciboy | SLi, So would I, I'll have to do some tests when I get my N800. It comes down to a background, a mid ground and two animated sprites. | 22:47 |
| Tak | m-vo: kind of a catch-22 imo | 22:47 |
| VimS | m-vo: what must one do to get his packackes on the extras repo ? | 22:47 |
| keesj | m-vo: I agree | 22:47 |
| Tak | unless it's got increased visibility, it will be difficult to muster a community QA effort | 22:47 |
| Tak | unless there's good QA, it's difficult to justify increased visibility | 22:48 |
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| m-vo | tak, yes, it's not revolutionary to pre-configure that repository, but it hopefully also shows some commitment from Nokia's side. | 22:48 |
| Tak | I understand the motivation | 22:48 |
| Tak | and I'm not complaining; I'm trying to be helpfully analytical | 22:49 |
| SLi | BTW, anybody know about maemo-mapper, seems it's a one person project, whether the author would mind me hopping in and sending some patches for new features and bug fixes? If I find the time. I already have a short todo list for it. | 22:49 |
| m-vo | tak, yes, it's appreciated. | 22:49 |
| derf | SLi: The author would appreciate it. | 22:49 |
| Tak | SLi: I suspect he'd appreciate | 22:49 |
| derf | If he doesn't, I'll go downstairs and have words with him. | 22:50 |
| pupnik_ | N810 will bring a new surge of activity to the community, just like N800 did | 22:50 |
| SLi | :) | 22:50 |
| m-vo | there seems to be no way around separate distributions for development versions and end-user-ready versions of packages. | 22:50 |
| m-vo | of course, we should do this for the whole OS, not just applications. | 22:50 |
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| SLi | m-vo, the debian model is nice, with stable/testing/unstable, although I guess it would be most useful to just take testing and rename it to something else (where packages migrate when they have been in unstable for a while with no serious bugs filed). | 22:51 |
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| sciboy | SLi, I'm just hoping this works out, I'm not into blitting and if the canvas pre-render actually works out that's actually a huge advantage over other 2d game engines. | 22:51 |
| sciboy | SLi, Enabling me to do things that are simply not possible at real-time and keep file-sizes relatively low. | 22:52 |
| SLi | m-vo, assuming new os releases about once per year, Nokia will probably want to keep a "stable" repository themselves then. :) | 22:52 |
| Tak | I'd love to see more devs publishing to garage extras, and more QA for extras packages | 22:52 |
| m-vo | SLi, yes. The Debian model would fit us quite well, I'd say, even internally. Instead of having only one eternal unstable like Debian, we might need to start out with one unstable/testing/stable silo for each major release, but that's details. | 22:52 |
| czr | if only you wouldn't have so frequent releases | 22:53 |
| * Tak not complaining about frequent releases | 22:53 | |
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| czr | well, me neither, but I don't think the "debian model" would work all that well with high freq "stables" | 22:53 |
| derf | Tak: As I said before, devs don't do package maintainence. | 22:54 |
| SLi | Release early, release often. Although it's a small pain to have to reflash new releases, but I don't know how much I'd appreciate cutting other development time for providing a smooth upgrade path. | 22:54 |
| Tak | maybe they should | 22:54 |
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| Tak | particularly since, for the ITs, user/dev/packager tends to be a closed loop | 22:55 |
| derf | Why? It's a completely different skillset than programming, and appeals to a completely different set of people. | 22:55 |
| * Tak indicates previous statement | 22:55 | |
| derf | Out of necessity, not choice. | 22:55 |
| Tak | I dunno - I first obtained a 770 to hack on it | 22:56 |
| SLi | Yeah, and then should every developer be obligated to package their software for every different distribution and to know all the peculiarities of each? I can tell there's enough quirks for one person even in Debian. | 22:56 |
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| derf | And now you've got ITOS 2005, 6, 7, 8, the 700, N800, N810... chances are your dev is going to have exactly one combination of those. | 22:56 |
| SLi | (Maybe especially in Debian, since their guidelines are rather strict.) | 22:57 |
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| derf | And they will do the minimum amount required to get the thing installed on their device. | 22:57 |
| thejapanesegeek | is it possible to install an apt repo on a flash drive? | 22:57 |
| derf | And no more. | 22:57 |
| m-vo | thejapanesegeek, sure, use a "file:///" URL. | 22:58 |
| Tak | Quoth the derf, "and no more." ;-) | 22:58 |
| sciboy | Thanks for everything guys, here's hoping I can join in with development soon. | 22:58 |
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| thejapanesegeek | the problem I'm having is that it tries to update the internet repos, and I don't have wifi right now. | 22:59 |
| czr | I guess that maintaining the software would be possible across multiple releases as well, assuming someone would pay for it | 22:59 |
| Tak | some sort of autobuild submission process with an automated package review tool (ala lintian) would be good | 22:59 |
| czr | but that's not likely to happen with majority of projects at least | 22:59 |
| thejapanesegeek | Can I disable the internet repo update? | 22:59 |
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| dockane | just bought an n800 and i think it fits the need of a mobile device ( with 16 gb sdcard memory) much better then the n810 for me | 22:59 |
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| VimS | thejapanesegeek: why would you do that? | 23:00 |
| Tak | upload a tarball to build.garage.maemo.org, it builds debs for all currently supported distributions, runs something lintianlike on the packages, and releases them to the appropriate repos | 23:01 |
| czr | hey, a quick packaging question (deb-buidling), is ${misc:Depends} really useful? it's put into control by dh_make automatically (there's also shlibs:Depends obviously). | 23:01 |
| thejapanesegeek | VimS: because I don't have access to wifi where I am right now | 23:01 |
| _Monkey | right now is the time when you can find ps2 full versions in the magazine shelves for a couple of bucks | 23:01 |
| czr | thejapanesegeek, what happens if you put the device into 'offline'-mode? (power switch shortly, the select 'offline mode') | 23:02 |
| dockane | is there any wake-on-lan tool for the n800? | 23:02 |
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| thejapanesegeek | czr: The App manager asks to enter online mode. | 23:03 |
| czr | dockane, the radio is completely off when the device is completely off. | 23:03 |
| czr | thejapanesegeek, ah. figures :-) | 23:03 |
| czr | dockane, so no. | 23:03 |
| m-vo | thejapanesegeek, the AM will still try to go online even without any repo configured,,, :-( | 23:04 |
| thejapanesegeek | I also tried assume online in the options, but that also doesn't fix it. | 23:04 |
| m-vo | but it should. | 23:05 |
| derf | This has a simple solution. | 23:05 |
| derf | Use the command-line. | 23:05 |
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| VimS | derf: ueber-geek ;) | 23:07 |
| czr | thejapanesegeek, you might also submit a bug-report against the Am if there's not one already | 23:07 |
| czr | no help on the ${misc:Depends} -question? | 23:07 |
| m-vo | czr, man debhelper :-) | 23:08 |
| * Tak not debiangeek enough to know about misc:Depends | 23:08 | |
| thejapanesegeek | I used the default version of ITOS that came with the tablet, and I was able to maunally download the debs for the program I wanted, but I had to flash mine and now the apckages are broken. | 23:08 |
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| czr | m-vo, thanks :-) | 23:08 |
| thejapanesegeek | I was hoping a local repo would fix it. | 23:08 |
| m-vo | some dh_foo helpers use it, but you pretty much have to know what they are doing. | 23:08 |
| czr | m-vo, yup, dh_make will add it automatically to the control file that it generates though, hence the question | 23:09 |
| derf | czr: I learned just enough about debhelper to install stuff on my device, and no more. | 23:09 |
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| thejapanesegeek | do you know what version of firmware comes with the n800, and where can I get a replacement? | 23:09 |
| czr | thejapanesegeek, the version that comes with it depends on when you bought it. and you can get an update from nokia.com | 23:10 |
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| m-vo | czr, i think it's harmless to leave it there, if you can stand the warning about it being undefined when nobody actually puts stuff into it. | 23:10 |
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| czr | m-vo, trying to update some reference material. so I'll better document what it's meant for (and rip it out) | 23:10 |
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| thejapanesegeek | I used some of the updates linked to from the maemo flash with linux site, but none of them allow installation of all the packages. | 23:11 |
| m-vo | Yeah, I finally read the training material, it has amazing depth. Explaining how "make" works, wow. | 23:11 |
| czr | m-vo, which one? | 23:11 |
| sp3000 | does it list make's default rules? | 23:11 |
| sp3000 | that'd be fun. | 23:12 |
| czr | sp3000, you mean the built in pattern ones? | 23:12 |
| m-vo | The stuff Jarmo wants to put out for maemo 3.2 | 23:12 |
| czr | m-vo, ah yes. that is exactly what I'm fixing currently | 23:12 |
| sp3000 | czr: right | 23:12 |
| czr | turned out all the packaging stuff was very very very broken | 23:12 |
| czr | (I wrote it for 1.0 originally, haven't seen the material since) | 23:12 |
| czr | sp3000, I think it mentions something abouter patterns, but tries to avoids them | 23:13 |
| czr | since using patterns is .. not that important if you've never even used make before. | 23:13 |
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| czr | i think there's maybe one example in which only the implicit rules are used | 23:14 |
| czr | since the implicit one to link applications puts LDFLAGS at incorrect position to start with | 23:14 |
| czr | (it should be listed at the very end of gcc invocation, not in the middle, since that breaks linking order with some braindead libs) | 23:14 |
| czr | m-vo, just now realized who you were btw, thanks for all the comments :-) | 23:15 |
| m-vo | Yeah, took me a while to make the connection as well... :-) | 23:15 |
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| pupnik | funny how this channel and ITT exploded since N810 pictures released | 23:18 |
| czr | people have more spare time now? :-) | 23:18 |
| thejapanesegeek | I've been trying to install the GPE suite just from debs, but the n800 rejects some of the packages, even with the latest version from maemo.org. any idea why? | 23:18 |
| pupnik | look at log for error message | 23:18 |
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| mgedmin | the n810 announcement coincides with the ubuntu 7.10 release | 23:20 |
| mgedmin | my blog reader is exploding | 23:20 |
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| VimS | pupnik: are you kidding? i've been waiting for this announcement since the first pictures of the case were leaked ;) | 23:20 |
| VimS | then again i idle here everyday... waiting for better times for my 770... ;) | 23:21 |
| pupnik | Heh ok. I just note that the channel has been a lot more active than in the preceeding weeks. | 23:22 |
| VimS | jepp noticed that to... although i'm just idling here ;P | 23:22 |
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| * Tak just got 770 hacking time back a few weeks ago | 23:28 | |
| pupnik | http://www.slideshare.net/igor_stoppa_nokia/power-management-for-the-nokia-internet-tablets This post was most excellent. I award two internets. | 23:28 |
| pupnik | ty disq :) | 23:28 |
| pupnik | \o/ Tak :) | 23:28 |
| Tak | heh - /limited/ 770 hacking time | 23:29 |
| Tak | hence the recent fceu and xmaeme releases | 23:29 |
| disq | i have an idea for synergyc | 23:29 |
| disq | erm, quicksynergy is better i think | 23:29 |
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| disq | run the daemon on the foreground with debug output, filter debug messages, and run shell scripts (to set the mouse cursor) when the cursor enters/exits the screen | 23:30 |
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| pupnik | Interesting that omap2 with 400mhz ARM constrains DSP to 133 mhz, while 330mhz allows 220 mhz DSP | 23:34 |
| Tak | power consumption issue/ | 23:35 |
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| pupnik | assuming yes - this is implied by page 15 of the power-management presentation | 23:36 |
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| pupnik | Woohoo - I just sold another developer on N800 :) | 23:40 |
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| truls | hey | 23:44 |
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| truls | just got the 1.0.8 scratchbox (to install the chinook sdk), but also wanted to install the bora sdk inside | 23:46 |
| truls | i had to change the glibc-prefix expected by the bora-installer from cs2005q3.2-glibc to cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5 | 23:47 |
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| Tak | pupnik: oh yeah, one of my cow orkers just ordered one too | 23:48 |
| truls | but when i try to compile a hello world in the newly installed 3.2 target (arm or x86) i get a few undefined references (undefined reference to `errno@GLIBC_PRIVATE' etc) | 23:49 |
| truls | i guess it might be stupid to install the maemo 3.2 into the scratchbox installed by the maemo 4.0 installer, but.... | 23:51 |
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| truls | anyone encounter the same problem? | 23:52 |
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| kaltsi | truls mmm you can't use the glibc2.5 toolchain with bora | 23:52 |
| truls | ah | 23:54 |
| truls | ack | 23:54 |
| truls | thanks for clearing that up though | 23:54 |
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| kaltsi | maybe you can't use the 3.2 installer to set up bora target anymore | 23:55 |
| kaltsi | but it is possible to have bora and chinook targets under the same scratchbox | 23:55 |
| truls | so i'd have to install the scratchbox from the bora installer then... | 23:55 |
| truls | and then add chinook | 23:55 |
| truls | i'd guess... | 23:55 |
| kaltsi | I'm not entirely sure if the installers can be called in sequence like hat | 23:56 |
| kaltsi | that | 23:56 |
| truls | so one scratchbox = one maemo version? | 23:56 |
| disq | i'm doing it right now. upgraded my existing gregale+bora sbox to 1.0.8 (debian ftw) now downloading the rootstraps | 23:56 |
| kaltsi | disq and can you still use the bora target to build stuff? | 23:57 |
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| disq | it's still downloading :) | 23:57 |
| kaltsi | :) | 23:57 |
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| disq | but i'm hoping it will. can't see a reason not to. | 23:57 |
| kaltsi | I may be mistaken but I think both create targets called SDK_ARM and SDK_X86 or so | 23:57 |
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| truls | atleast chinook do | 23:58 |
| disq | no the names are different for chinook beta | 23:58 |
| truls | sorry, bora does :) | 23:58 |
| disq | according to the doc | 23:58 |
| kaltsi | ok cool then it should be possible | 23:58 |
| jumpula | and pre-3.2 installed sdk targets are incompatible with debian devkit 1.0.8 or newer | 23:58 |
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| truls | but which part of the 1.0.8 is incompatible with 3.2? | 23:59 |
| truls | glibc? | 23:59 |
| _Monkey | glibc is the c main library | 23:59 |
| disq | _Monkey: thanks. | 23:59 |
| _Monkey | disq: no problem | 23:59 |
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