IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2007-10-18

timelessignore _monkey, that's a reasonable response00:00
*** thejapanesegeek has quit IRC00:00
pauliukasoh this is funny.00:00
pauliukasIt works nicely as root.00:00
timelessok, open settings and check your homepage?00:00
pauliukasSo probably a permissions problem?00:00
timelesscould be00:00
* timeless shrugs00:00
pauliukasHow can I set the default engine to Opera?00:01
timelessapp menu>set engine00:01
pauliukasah. good old' opera.00:02
timelessi'd like to know what's wrong w/ microb00:02
timelessplease let me know when you have time to investigate00:02
*** pdz has joined #maemo00:02
pauliukasWell, how could I help you?00:03
r2d2rogerspauliukas, timeless talking aboutthe repeating error alert when it can't get toe a page for example?00:03
r2d2rogersI see that also00:03
timelesscd /usr/lib/micro*00:03
r2d2rogers770, latest 200600:03
timelessfind . -type f|xargs ls -l00:03
pauliukas same here00:03
pauliukastimeless: Want me to pastebin that or what?00:04
timelessdoes the output seem reasonable?00:04
pauliukasall owned by root00:04
timelessownership is expected00:04
timelessif files aren't readable, that's a problem00:04
r2d2rogersbig chunk scrolled..00:04
timelessuse > /tmp/something00:04
pauliukasThat's readable, right?00:04
pauliukasAll files look about the same: -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        11972 Aug 10 16:51 ./libplc4.so00:05
timelessin microb (you can use --engine=microb --url=about:) try entering:00:05
timelessas the entire url and pressing enter/go00:05
timelessdoes it load?00:05
r2d2rogersall was readable in my scroll buffer00:05
pauliukasThis is very weird.00:06
onionshould microb work in 2007HE ?00:06
pauliukasI now set Mozilla as the engine and it worked fine as non-root.00:06
r2d2rogersindex of file:///00:06
timelesswell, rather, no idea if it works in 2007he00:06
timelesssomeone wanted me to post an annoucement of a specially made version for 2007he00:06
r2d2rogerswas working fairly well for me last week00:06
pauliukasMaybe executing under root made it fix the permissions00:06
timelesswhich to me seemed both pointless00:06
timelessand problematic00:06
timelesssince it actually had obvious bugs when i tested it00:06
*** Mickken has joined #maemo00:06
timelessanyway, if the normal microb for 2007 works on 2007he, it'd be nice to know00:07
timelessi'd love to kill the project00:07
oniongives "internal error"00:07
timelessok :)00:07
r2d2rogersI only see the popup alert in cases where it can't get to the page00:07
timelessif you want, ii have a repo url for a repo w/ a port for 2007he00:07
pauliukasActually, the speed isn't too bad.00:07
timelessr2d2: yeah yeah, hold on00:07
*** thejapanesegeek has joined #maemo00:07
pauliukasIf this doesn't crash like Opera does, I'll be a happy camper.00:08
onionthat would be nice00:08
r2d2rogerstimeless, I think I was using the 2006 version of mircob in the 2007 HE00:08
timelesscan you guys try clicking in turn00:08
r2d2rogersno rush00:08
pauliukasclicking in turn?00:08
timelessusr, lib, microb-engine, chrome, toolkit, content, global00:08
timeless^ one after another as they appear :)00:08
timelesssorry, typing takes time,...00:08
pauliukasWhy not an absolute path instead?00:09
timelessbecause i want to test things piecemeal00:09
pauliukascd /usr/lib/microb-engine/chrome/toolkit/content/global/00:09
timelessif you're getting an error, i want to verify things step by step00:09
pauliukasI'm not getting errors anymore, heh.00:09
*** lmoura has quit IRC00:09
r2d2rogersreopening the browser... got impatient00:10
czrnight ->00:10
*** roxfan[work] has joined #maemo00:10
czrsp3000, I didn't thank you, did I? thanks :-)00:11
sp3000np :)00:11
r2d2rogerstimeless, got to global, no errors00:12
*** pdz-__ has joined #maemo00:12
timelessclick netError.xhtml00:12
*** doublec has joined #maemo00:13
r2d2rogersloaded, "Cannot Complete Request"00:13
timelessthat's fine00:13
r2d2rogersthe normal error screeen00:13
*** Lariso has quit IRC00:13
timelessok, try loading somethinglistawful.kahdkjsahdskjahdk00:13
timelesswhat happens?00:13
r2d2rogersdid the equivilent00:14
r2d2rogersgot the pop up00:14
timelessbtw, there's an osso_screenshot_tool somewhere, sp3000 might know where00:14
timelesswhat *precisely* does it say?00:14
timelessis it really file; ?00:14
r2d2rogers"Address type is unknown or unsupported ..." give the URL to the path we just clicked peicemeail00:14
pauliukasAnyone got Flash 9 working on the 770?00:14
timelessiirc we tested it internally, it works00:15
r2d2rogersmy bad00:15
* timeless frowns00:15
timelessi don't get it00:15
r2d2rogersshould have rechecked before hitting enter... not after00:15
pauliukastimeless: How about for people expternally?00:15
timelesswe can't legally distribute it00:16
timelessbuy an n80000:16
timelesscopy the file00:16
pauliukasWho said it has to be legal.00:16
timelessthe instructions are mostly on my blog00:16
timelessminus one detail00:16
timelessthe plugins dir is slightly different00:16
r2d2rogersexcept for the extra "W"  that's it00:16
*** pdz- has quit IRC00:16
timelessit's something like /usr/bin/browser/plugins/2007/ ?00:16
* timeless can't remeember that detail :(00:16
r2d2rogershmm but the ok didn't cause a repeat this time..00:16
timelessstrace would tell you if strace worked00:16
r2d2rogersit went to google for a google search00:17
*** pdz has quit IRC00:17
pauliukasMy favorite russian cracksite has a zip for Flash9 on the 770.00:17
pauliukasWith the so and instructions00:17
pauliukasI'm just kidding.00:17
r2d2rogerstimeless, the suggested nonsense pattern does cause the repeating pop up00:17
timelessinstructions would havev been in russian :)00:18
pauliukastimeless: Too bad. I can read a bit of it.00:18
pauliukasHaving close russian friends open up a world of possibilities.00:18
pauliukasThat's all I'm going to say.00:18
*** thejapanesegeek has quit IRC00:19
timelesscan you get strace working?00:19
timelessit'd be moderately interesting to know whether or not the file is being checked00:19
pauliukasI found a forum with instructions00:19
pauliukasYes. Download for libflash is working.00:19
pauliukasI'm in business now00:19
*** roxfan has quit IRC00:19
timelesssorry, re legal, i'm a nokian, i can't do or suggest things that aren't00:20
pauliukasI'm not asking you to.00:20
timelessand the people who make os2007he while strange are still bound by law00:20
pauliukasI just showed my joy.00:20
timelessso no flash900:20
*** matt_c has joined #maemo00:21
pauliukasI'm wondering how the performance is, though. Flash 6 is pathetic on the 770.00:21
timelessbut you can legally buy an n800 for 240USD and get flash900:21
doublecI'm having problems with the microb build instructions on the garage site - is anyone able to give me some pointers?00:21
timeless770 had flash7 not flash600:21
pauliukasYeah? Tigerdirect sold the 800 for $450 or so00:21
timelessdoublec: hi00:21
pauliukasAnd the 770 for $15000:21
doublechi timeless00:21
timelessdoublec: what's failing?00:21
timelessOur Price: $239.9900:22
doublecI'm running in scratchbox. I have the svn checked out. changed to microb-engine/microb-engine. fakeroot apt-get build-dep microb-engine gives me:00:22
timelessShipping:  FREE00:22
pauliukasI'm in Canada.00:22
pauliukasDoesn't work that easily.00:22
doublecunable to find source package for microb-engine00:22
pauliukasTigerDirect is like the only big computer stuff distributor here.00:22
timelesspauliukas: you need a friend in NY or Detroit00:22
pauliukastimeless: No, man, no...00:22
pauliukasA friend in Moscow00:22
timelessi don't think we sell in russia at all00:22
pauliukasThen you could get a stolen 80000:22
timelesswhich is ... clever in its own right00:22
pauliukasWho said you sold to them?00:23
pauliukasAs sad as it is, it's probably true.00:23
timelessdoublec: err00:23
timelessapt sucks00:23
doublecif I ignore that and do dpkg-buildpackage I get libidl-dev bc libcairo2-dev as missing build dependancies00:23
*** Mekin has quit IRC00:23
timelesssp3000: can you help doublec work aroudn apt being stupid00:23
doublecshould I have something in my apt source?00:23
timelessdoublec: libidl-dev is in the microb sources00:24
* suihkulokki strangles timeless with yum00:24
*** NickDe has quit IRC00:24 that would be a *slow* death00:24
lardmanyayayay, framebuffer access works from the dsp :)00:24
*** roxfan[work] is now known as roxfan00:24
* lardman now has a yellow screen00:25
timelessgo into that directory and play w/ debian/rules00:25
timelessthat'll get you libidl-dev, i hope00:25
doublecok, thanks00:25
* Tak "Ruby Interface Loaded."00:25
timelessyou should have that from your checkout00:25
* Tak laughs evilly00:25 is just a cross reference00:25
doublecyes, I have it00:25
suihkulokkilardman: cool00:26
timelessbc you need to find a repository00:26
m-vodoublec, I have a 'orrible script to solve your problem.  Let me dig it out.00:26
doublecthanks m-vo00:27
lardmansuihkulokki: going to try piping mplayer output directly to the screen via dsp now00:27
*** Daniellion has quit IRC00:27
timelessi have no idea about libcairo-dev,00:28
*** MoRpHeUz has quit IRC00:28
pyhimysdamn, no new firmware yet00:28
t_s_ook, just watched som videos and holy smokes that 2008 ui is sweet!00:28
t_s_obig, finger focued menus with big scroll arrows and all. ok, i dont care if i have to sell my soul for this one, i want it and i want it bad!00:29
*** vivijim has quit IRC00:29
m-vodoublec, I was mostly guessing what your problem was.  If the script confuses you, maybe I misunderstood.00:29
timelessi'll take your soul, you drive a really weak bargain00:29
doublecthanks m-vo, looking at it now00:30
doublecok, now I need to find a repostory with flex in it00:33
timelesswhat wans flex?00:34
_Monkeyit has been said that libidl-dev is in the microb sources00:34
* timeless sighs00:34
timelessoh brother00:34
*** fsmw has quit IRC00:34
timelessyeah, have fun00:34
doublecyeah, apt dependancies are fun :)00:34
timelessdid i mention that apt sucks?00:34
doubleconce or twice00:34
*** bergie has quit IRC00:35
timelessit needs to be repeated :(00:35
sp3000heh shoot the messenger00:35
sp3000timeless: did you get response re versions to the 693 thing00:36
m-voHeh, there are sucky parts in apt, and the whole thing reads like a prototype (which it probably is), but in general it's good.00:36
timelesswas that the bug?00:36
timelessif so, yes00:36
sp3000I guess I have a maemo2.2 test package, not that I have anything to test such a thing with00:37
*** bilboed has quit IRC00:37
m-voit doesn't handle broken repositories as well you might want, but then again, repositories should not be broken.00:37
onionhih. mapper almost builds under chinook00:37
timelessm-vo: shoulds are nice, they're also unrealistic00:37
alteregoCrikey ..00:37
alteregoI just looked at the Python API for libosso .. It's horrible.00:38
m-voMaybe for Nokia/maemo but not for normal people.00:38
sp3000timeless: I take it I fell out of cc then00:38
timelesssp3000: i'll have to figure out which thing you mean00:38
Takalterego: got xchat-ruby and my plugin going on 770 ;-)00:38
alteregoTak, fancy :)00:39
timelessno, that didn't get resolved00:39
*** Esworp has joined #maemo00:39
alteregoTak, did you use one of my packages?00:39
timelesslemme finnish dealing w/ osol00:39
*** pdz-__ is now known as pdz00:39
_Monkeywhichever is the current grouper00:39
Takyeah, I used all of your packages00:39
* timeless blames those annoyhing finns00:39
alteregoCool, :)00:39
timeless_monkey forget whichever00:39
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot whichever00:39
timeless_monkey whichever is <reply>00:39
_MonkeyOK, timeless.00:39
Takxchat-ruby on top of that, ruby plugin on top of that00:39
m-voI just have to go on a bit about apt suckage...00:39
Esworpmonkey, ukmp00:40
*** fab has quit IRC00:40
Esworpmonkey, ukmp?00:40
m-voapt-get is not good at configuration management: "Give me all -dbg packages corresponding to libfoo and all its dependencies".00:40
||cwEsworp: it's name starts with an _00:40
Esworpoh, duh.00:40
*** drcoffee has joined #maemo00:41
m-voIt is also missing the "satisfy this Depends: line" operation.00:41
_Monkeyokay, m-vo.00:41
Esworp_Monkey, ukmp?00:41
_Monkeyukmp is a Media Player, available for download at
m-voIt used to suck at removing unneeded packages, but that seems to have changed.00:41
timelessgoogle says tha unneeded is not a word00:42
timelessi happen to agree00:42
* timeless sighs00:42
m-voHeh, don't try to side-track the discussion.  timeless, you are a pedant! :-)00:43
timelessi wonder if i can get a newer laptop if i can prove to BI that my t key doesn't work reliably00:43
m-voand "tha" isn' t a word either :-P00:43
timelessm-vo: see followup. i'm one response ahead of you :(00:43
m-voExcuses, excuses...00:44
timelessoh wierd00:44
m-voanyway, where was I?00:44
timelessi'm seeeing a nokia add00:44
timelessfrom ansi vanyoki00:44
timelessfrom nokia hq in espoo00:44
timelessand please don't expect me to be able to spell his name correctly00:44
Esworphas anyone else had trouble with ossocpu? the lil cpu graph applet?00:44
timelessi don't speak Finnish00:45
*** roxfan[work] has joined #maemo00:45
m-voThen, of course, the libapt-pkg API is C++ from the 70ties.00:45
Esworpi install it, but never shows up when i turn it 'on'00:45
m-voshould be "vanjoki" I think.00:46
Esworpit worked fine before i updated00:46
timelessAnssi Vanjoki00:46
drcoffeeQ - does anyone know of an easy way to adjust (or turn off) the key repeat when using BT keyboards? I have tried xset770, but to no avail.00:46
timelessthey stuck his name into a graphic for a few seconds00:46
* timeless wonders why he's on TV00:47
timelessDigitali Convergensi00:47
timelesssp3000: is he in our management chain? :o00:47
timelessheh, Nokia Music Store00:47
timelessthey didn't translate that00:48
m-voThere is a verkkokauppa ad for Nokia phones that show that you can get your name engraved in them, and one of the names is Olli-Pekka.00:48
Esworp_Monkey, media player?00:48
_Monkeyesworp: wish i knew00:48
timelessm-vo: Olli and Pekka both seem to be fairly common00:48
timelessis that interesting?00:48
timelesswhich reminds me, i need to publish a comment into a bug :(00:49
m-voOlli-Pekka Kallasvuo, the Nokia CEO.00:49
sp3000timeless: what this guy?
timelesssp3000: he's on tv now00:49
timelessi can't reach nokia.com00:49
timelessbecause nokia *fscks* w/ dns00:49
timelessanyone have a mirror? :)00:49
timelesshe's blond :)00:50
timelessoh good00:50
timelessthere's someone speaking English00:50
*** Thanatermesis has quit IRC00:50
*** Thanatermesis has joined #maemo00:50
timelessoh god00:50
Thanatermesismierda conexion...00:50
timelessthey're using Holocaus imagery00:50
* timeless sighs00:51
timelessi need a keyboard where the t key works00:51
timelessoh no00:51
Esworplookd like it does.  :P00:51
timelessthey just claimed that they have a solution, so they just need to find the problem00:51
timelesssp3000: got a tv, or did you decide against paying the tv license?00:52
timelesss/the/for the/00:52
infobottimeless meant: sp3000: got a tv, or did you decide against paying for the tv license?00:52
timelessgood bot00:52
sp3000I have one00:52
timelessturn on mtv3, he's on now00:52
*** red-zack has quit IRC00:53
*** Tb0n3 has joined #maemo00:54
*** roxfan has quit IRC00:55
timelesserr, they showed off the swedish keylayout?00:55
timeless=> sp300000:55
*** Esworp has quit IRC00:55
timelessit's not English00:56
timelessI'm assuming it isn't Finnish00:56
Mikholooks finnish enough to me00:56
sp3000probably the same00:56
timelessunless ao is really tha important00:56
roopeit's finnish.00:56
m-vobut not the end!00:56
timelessit's the same layout00:57
timelessbut why would you show off either?00:57
timelessthis was a launch in, no?00:57
*** roxfan has joined #maemo00:57
sp3000it's för metäl döts!00:57
timelesssp3000: and for those of us unicode challenged?00:58
sp3000it's for metal dots.00:58
roopeperhaps it is promoting the fact that also other languages than eng work. :)00:58
timelessthey do?00:58
timelesslast i checked they didn't :)00:58
roopewell yes, they do.00:58
timelesscertainly, if you come to the US w/ the Map(*cough*) applet, you'll have a real hard time00:58
timelessgiven that you won't be able to get it to speak to you in Miles00:59
timelessit seems we paid extra to make sure you couldn't use Miles if you visited the US and didn't speak English00:59
roopeThe metric system rules the world anyway.00:59
*** luck^ has quit IRC00:59
timelessbecause French speaking Canadians, Spanish speaking Mexicans, and German/Russian speakers would never want to visit the US01:00
*** guardian_ has joined #maemo01:00
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC01:00
roopeRoyale with Cheese.   ->01:00
* timeless notes that nordic denizens tend to be able to speak English, so it's not a problem for them01:00
*** drcoffee has quit IRC01:03
doublecthe 810 looks nice. what are the chances of it being available in australia/new zealand01:04
timelessdoublec: nill01:04
doublecI guessed :)01:04
timelesspick it up the next time you visit stateside01:04
timelessdoublec: we pay to localize in Russian01:04
timelessbut we don't sell in Russia01:04
timelesswe don't pay to localize for Ausies/Kiwis01:04
||cwdoes AU even need localisation?01:05
||cwother than timezone...01:05
||cwwhat symbol does AU use for their dollar?01:06
timelesstechnically word choice in Australia is a mix between US and GB01:06
jumpulathey have to have words like outback etc01:06
timelessso arguably you should try to get words right01:07
lardmanarvo = afternoon01:07
lardmanI'm quite sure the australians can understand English though01:07
jumpulaarvo in finnish means value :)01:07
timelessotoh, we can't get the words right for US or GB01:07
||cwtimeless: what kind of words are we talking about?01:07
timelessso why start w/ Australia?01:07
||cwfor most apps, the only difference between US and GB is the symbol for money01:08
timelesssearch for Austral in that article01:08
*** _Monkey has quit IRC01:08
sp3000timeless: maybe one of them would just match by au by accident :P01:08
timeless||cw: not on our device01:08
*** _Monkey has joined #maemo01:08
sp3000s/by //01:08
infobotsp3000 meant: timeless: maybe one of them would just match au by accident :P01:08
lardmanspelling things with a z and without a u are very annoying though01:08
*** k-s[WORK] has quit IRC01:08
timelesslardman: or the reverse01:08
timelessthankfully we have a solution01:09
timelessour map app says catalog should be spelled w/o the ue for GB01:09
lardmaneveryone learn Finnish?01:09
timelessbecause consistency is taboo01:09
timelesslardman: Turn to horizontal01:09
timelessTurn to vertical01:09
timelessthe only good thing about Finnish is that it shows how piss poor the English was to begin with01:09
Jiten_interesting, python2.5-hildon contains module called hildonglade that seems to do what is needed to hildonize a glade file. It's just rather light on documentation.01:10
timelessjiten_: people are trying to use glade heavily for the future01:10
timelesswhich is a good thing, because the gtk C code i've seen is awful01:10
* sp3000 contemplates turning to horizontal01:10
||cwok, so if US and GB aren't consistent, why worry about AU?  most poeple have no problem with alternate spellings and are not confused01:10
timelesssp3000: if the image is horizontal, do nothing01:10
timelessif the image is vertical, do the wrong thing01:10
||cwseems like a silly reason not to sell the device in that country01:11
timeless||cw: having paid to localize it for Russian01:11
Jiten_I'm building a new gui (porting qt application) and building the gtk structure in code gets old rather fast so I started looking again.01:11
timelessdoesn't it seem sillier not to sell it in Russia?01:11
* sp3000 contemplates turning horizontal himself, that is01:11
||cwthere are lots of non-russians that speak russian01:11
timeless||cw: i think there are more Russian speakers in Russia than there are...01:11
||cwrussia is an oddball country, AU is not very different from US and GB01:12
timelessrussian speakers elsewhere who would buy teh device01:12
||cweconomy wise01:12
Jiten_Well, at least there is the source.01:12
infobottimeless meant: russian speakers elsewhere who would buy the device01:12
Jiten_maybe I'll figure out how to use that01:12
||cwselling products in russia, or in any country for that matter,  is more of the political matter01:12
timelessif by politics you mean internal corporate, sure01:13
*** x2 has joined #maemo01:13
x2hey guys01:13
||cwas well as free market politics01:13
||cwit's hard for a non-russian company to sell stuff in russia01:13
timelessi'm fairly cerain that doesn't enter it01:13
x2oh the 770, how do you get teh software kb to some back after using a bt kb?01:13
x2im using the os2007 port now and thi sis the only thing bothering me so far01:14
timelessturning off bluetooth doesn't work?01:14
x2it makes no sense :/01:14
x2I dont have it connected and the software one still wont come up01:14
timelessNokia Phones Go on the Back Shelf - Kommersant Moscow01:15
timelessEuroset management has ordered Nokia phones to be sold as cheaply as ... the dispute with Euroset may cost Nokia its leading position on the Russian market.01:15
timelessseems fairly clear that Nokia sells in Russia01:15
*** playya has quit IRC01:15
timelessalthough, perhaps not at the price point they want :)01:15
*** roxfan[work] has quit IRC01:15
*** roxfan[work] has joined #maemo01:16
x2any ideas>01:17
*** playya has joined #maemo01:17
*** guardian has quit IRC01:17
x2tahts what I have installed currently01:17
SLiI've been thinking maybe I should try to write a better sw keyboard, IMO using qwerty in tap screen is just horrible. Perhaps something like one hand dvorak, I don't know yet.01:17
*** Thanatermesis has quit IRC01:18
Mikhoprobably not worth the effort, unless you know dvorak already01:18
* lardman wonders why /sys/devices/platform/dsp/mmu was removed on the N80001:18
SLiMikho, I know dvorak already, though not the one hand variant :P01:18
SLiMikho, but I think putting letters used commonly together next to each other would make the sw keyb a lot more usable.01:19
Mikhoah, a live dvorak writer!01:19
Mikhoyes, but unfortuately it's pretty language dependent01:20
SLiIt took maybe 2 weeks to get used, now I use it regularly.01:20
x2SLi, do you know how to bring up the software keyboard once its gone?01:20
*** shapr has quit IRC01:20
SLix2, what? Gone?01:20
x2When i click in a text field, it will not come up01:20
x2This is asfter using a bt keyboard01:20
x2i tried disabling bt and removing the hardware keyboard and got nowhere01:21
SLiHm. Don't know about that.01:21
x2using the hacker edition on the 77001:21
SLiMikho, well, I'm a Finn, I write mostly Finnish and English with a slightly finnishized dvorak (mostly just adding åäö). If anyone's interested, I haven't found dvorak at least much faster than qwerty, but it's somehow a lot more comfortable for my wrists.01:22
x2guess im screwed?01:22
SLiInteresting problem. :P01:22
x2i cant put 2006 on my mmc in 30 mins01:22
x2= screwed01:23
disqi'm looking for an easy way to use dnotify from python. inotify somehow doesn't work01:23
Mikhowell looks like it has most of the vowels on the center row on thel left01:23
*** roxfan has quit IRC01:24
Mikhothe finnish layout is actually pretty annoying sometimes01:24
SLiYou mean qwerty-fi or some variant of dvorak-fi?01:25
x2is there a firmware list on maemo?01:25
Mikhoit's hard to type ~, @, \ and ^01:25
timelessx2: eh?01:25
Mikhoon normal qwerty01:25
x2like a list01:25
x2os06, hacker edition01:26
x2are there more?01:26
timelessx2: Would you give an approximate mapping?01:26
timelessscroll there01:26
SLiThe most annoying thing with dvorak-fi (or actually dvorak-se) is that they've changed it in X at least twice while I've been using it :P Now I use the latest dvorak-fi (it didn't change that much) and have an xmodmap file for all other environments I need to use to get the same layout.01:26
timelessthat's the list i had at the time01:26
x2thanks :)01:26
SLiMikho, yeah, that's true. Dvorak doesn't help that...01:26
timelessfrom my perspective, he doesn't count01:27
timelessit's supposed to be equivalent to other os's01:27
SLiI guess one-hand dvorak wouldn't be a perfect keyboard for touch screens either.01:27
*** dockane has joined #maemo01:27
timelessthere's one image past the last 3.x i listed, but it's just a single kernel fix01:27
x2so, basically01:28
Mikhomaybe I'll hack my keyboard handlers to type ^ and ~ with a single keypress01:28
x2I have to run 06 on my 77001:28
x2or 07 hackers01:28
timelessor 0501:28
x2yea but bleh01:28
timelessthere will be an 08 for n80001:28
SLiAnother idea I've been playing with is teaching my n800 the original palm graffitis (which seem to usually work much better than normal letters, but the stupid system let someone patent using just one stroke for letters so nobody else uses that).01:29
timelessand the 770 backport of 2007 is being run on garage01:29
x2I need to find out how to get my software keyboard back01:29
x2I like hackers01:29
timelessthey may do whatever they like01:29
x2does anyone here use a mmc to boot off?01:29
*** pdz- has joined #maemo01:29
SLix2, no, but I doubt it's faster.01:29
Jiten_SLi: so they can't ship something that useful with the device?01:29
x2it says its 2x the speed so I was just wondering01:29
*** r2d2rogers has quit IRC01:29
doublechow often do you boot though?01:30
SLiJiten_, yeah.01:30
x2*overall system speed01:30
doublecso i imagine the speed hit is not a big deal01:30
timelessdoublec: i boot often01:30
x2lol me too01:30
timelessjust to show how slow boots can be01:30
x2i do leave it on a lot though01:30
x2no kidding01:30
timelessmine take well over 30s before i get the progress meter01:30
timelessand i have witnesses01:30
timelesslots of them, including sp300001:30
timelessand glazou01:31
x2mine does too01:31
x2hackers seems a bit slower01:31
x2and more unstable01:31
doublecyou should put a game in the bootup process to give people something to do during boot01:31
x2ill try mmc boot tonight though01:31
x2with it01:31
_Monkeyi think pacman is even running slow01:31
x2LOL :p01:31
timeless_monkey forget pacman01:31
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot pacman01:31
*** TimRiker has joined #maemo01:31
timeless_monkey pacman is <reply>01:31
_MonkeyOK, timeless.01:31
*** mallum has joined #maemo01:36
x2i got it back lol01:36
x2had to connect my bluetooth kb01:36
SLiPerhaps I should start by installing a qwerty soft-kb that logs what I type so I can think about optimizing the layout.01:36
x2then disconnect01:36
SLiI just don't like the idea of optimizing my keyboard layout so that my password is easy to type with it :P01:37
x2ill be back in here on the tablet in class01:37
x2got class at 7 :/01:37
*** dockane_ has quit IRC01:38
doubleci got libidl to build01:38
doublecI needed to follow the steps regarding flex here:
x2oh yea01:39
x2is there any easy way to use ssl with xchat01:39
x2I thought it was included with xchat but I dont see it listed anywhere01:40
*** mgylfason has joined #maemo01:40
*** pdz has quit IRC01:40
alteregox2 it's in the server editing dialog.01:42
sp3000doublec: enjoying scratchbox eh ;)01:42
doublecoh yeah, having lots of fun :)01:42
x2i cant scroll that down though01:42
x2no scroll bar lol01:43
x2i tabbed through it last time01:43
*** juergbi has quit IRC01:44
*** mgylfason has quit IRC01:44
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC01:46
*** lmoura has joined #maemo01:46
*** etrunko has quit IRC01:49
doublecwhen hacking on the microb source, do you build/test in scratchbox all the time or in the host linux?01:55
alteregoOnly one SD slot?!?!01:56
alteregoAnd it's min!??!01:57
Jiten_is there a point to using miniSD when you could use microSD?01:58
alteregoThat's not the point. I would have expected dual ful SD/MMC slots like the N80001:58
Mikhomicrosds are easier to misplace01:59
*** cmarcelo has quit IRC02:00
Jiten_Mikho: true, but you could fit 2 slots in the place of one miniSD... at least I'd think so.02:00
*** Atarii has joined #maemo02:00
alteregoOh, it does take SD cards ..02:00
alteregoStoopid thoughtfix.02:00
doublecwhat only has one SD slot?02:01
alteregoAppearantly the sales package doesn't include a complimentary memory card :)02:01
alteregoI dunno, the spec is somewhat beta.02:01
|Rseeing the inside, it seemed like the internal SD was plated over with metal..02:02
alteregoHaving dual memory slots is one of the greatest things abouyt the N80002:02
*** t_s_o has quit IRC02:02
alteregoSeems silly that they'd remove that capability.02:02
alteregoMaybe that has something to do with the (Up to 2GB internal memory)02:03
alteregoI heard something about a memory upgrade next year. That's probably it.02:03
Jiten_that 2GB is most likely in that internal SD slot that's plated over.02:03
alteregoInteresting ..02:04
Jiten_well, at least you won't have to buy expansion to do much of anything with it.02:05
*** ruda has joined #maemo02:05
Jiten_aside from music and videos, 2GB actually is something :)02:05
Jiten_my n800 only has that much currently.02:05
alteregoWell, I've only got 2GB cards.02:05
alteregoI have 2x 2GB in my N80002:05
alteregoSuits me perfectly ..02:05
*** snowmoon has joined #maemo02:06
|Rsame here, 256MB internal with OS, 128 miniSD on the outside and 2GB microSD inside... basically 2GB if rounded :P02:07
alteregoI don't use the MiniSD.02:08
alteregoJust the 2x 2GB SD's I have.02:08
alteregoMaybe with sshfs I could use the N800 as a second storage device ;)02:08
|Rover pand02:09
|Ractually, you could share the gpsd over pand and use maemo mapper on the n80002:09
alteregoWell, it has ObexFTP :)02:10
|R(while you wait for it to be ported over ;)02:10
*** Mickken has quit IRC02:10
|Rnot very practical, but hey :)02:10
alteregoLife wouldn't be fun if everything was practical :P02:10
|Rthis is not fair :P02:11
* |R will go see the kids for a candy exchange ...02:11
|Ri just flashed my device and can't remember where/how to activate a .ashrc or equivalent file for aliases...? (/me really wish we had a full bash / ls / tar etc...)02:14
* alterego uses SVN for all his configuration files.02:15
alteregoAnyhow, goodnight folks.02:15
*** alterego has quit IRC02:15
|Ris OS2008 out for the n800 yet?02:21
zerojayIt's not mid-November and the n810 isn't on sale yet.02:23
lardmaninteresting comment about the 2008 os upping the n800's clock speed to 400mhz too02:23
zerojayI'm not so sure about that.02:24
* lardman is trawling though the 10million posts on itt02:24
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo02:24
zerojayI didn't get that impression when I read the linked e-mail.02:24
|Rhehe  :)02:24
* |R is asking too many stupid questions today and should have slept instead of trashing /bin :(02:26
*** dockane has quit IRC02:28
doublecsuccess, almost. microb-engine is now building02:29
*** Thanatermesis has joined #maemo02:30
*** matt_c has quit IRC02:31
*** rimad has joined #maemo02:35
*** rimad has left #maemo02:35
lardmannight all02:39
*** lardman has quit IRC02:39
*** pauliukas has left #maemo02:39
pupnik_LOL |R02:40
*** lmoura has quit IRC02:40
*** RushPL_ has quit IRC02:46
*** RushPL_ has joined #maemo02:46
*** kenne has quit IRC02:47
*** unique311 has joined #maemo02:48
pupnik_wb unique31102:50
unique311i feel outdated...with this new tablet all over maemo.org02:51
*** shapr has joined #maemo02:52
*** Thana` has joined #maemo02:53
zerojayI like getting e-mails from Bugzilla whenever people fix something. :)02:53
pupnik_"the micro usb is a now accepted charger standard between all manufacturers. it is the next step forward. my razr2 has it. thanks!"  i did not know this02:53
unique311so this new OS running on the n810...02:54
unique311when will the 800 users get it?02:54
zerojayWhen the N810 goes on sale next month.02:54
pupnik_'tis a happy day!02:56
unique311pupnik...time to upgrade?02:56
zerojayLooks like Maemo is now a supported platform on Forum Nokia now.02:56
pupnik_well... people wanted a n800 with keyboard and now they have one02:56
pupnik_thanks nokia02:56
unique311it looka like a umpc?02:57
pupnik_ great post zerojay re: gtk 2.1002:58
sp3000your mom lo... oh nevermind02:58
zerojayIf I didn't already have a tablet, I'd be far more intersted in the N810. As it stands, I'm still interested, but not as much thanks to the IT 2008 update for the N800.02:59
zerojaypupnik_: Oh... thanks. Even though I don't know all the nitty gritty details, I hope it was understandable.02:59
*** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik02:59
zerojayI'm just excited to see what this brings.03:00
zerojayI spent all day at work refreshing ITT.. and fixing the odd bug or two on our Bugzilla.03:01
pupnikthe picture of the 4 year old with the 810 kind of raises hope that it is holdable while thumb is on dpad and keys03:01
zerojayI hope Nokia doesn't keep bringing them out rapid-fire or I'd never get any work done. ;)03:01
pupnik:)  whose bugzilla do you maintain?03:01
zerojayInternal company bugzilla for our cell phone games.03:02
zerojayI think we'll pass 15000 bugs filed this week... not bad for two years for 7 games across 300 phones.03:03
*** x2-tablet has joined #maemo03:04
x2-tablet! rather03:04
pupnikah yah03:04
x2-tabletim in class03:04
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo03:04
x2-tabletbluetooth kb ftw03:04
zerojayI think about 2000 of those bugs are mine. Heh.03:04
pupnik  * j e a l o u s y *  (sfw)03:05
zerojayCurrent bugzilla champion: Samsung D500. 54 bugs, 21 major/severe/crash.03:05
zerojayHaha.. yeah, I felt the same way.03:05
zerojay"Is he going to taste it?"03:06
pupnikheheh drool on the shirt, that'd be me03:07
*** Thanatermesis has quit IRC03:08
*** Thana` is now known as Thanatermesis03:08
*** Atarii has quit IRC03:08
*** doublec_ has joined #maemo03:10
doublec_gdk_event_request_motions undeclared whe building microb-engine03:11
*** doublec has quit IRC03:11
*** sp3000 has quit IRC03:13
*** Lateralus has joined #maemo03:13
pupnik"I'm Hedgecore. I'm cynicism incarnate. The glass is neither half full, nor half empty, but it's a stupid glass and so's your face." - Hedgecore LOL03:13
zerojayYeah, I thought that was quite funny.03:14
pupnikfor ze games, the crucial unanswered question is resistance of the dpad03:16
*** vol has quit IRC03:18
GeneralAntillesSince the CPU on the N810 and the N800 are (effectively, I'm not 100% here) the same, might we get a scale up to 400MHz with OS2008 on the N800?03:21
zerojaytimeless: Sorry about 2034. I didn't mean to call anyone out or anything like that. ;)03:21
*** mallum has quit IRC03:21
zerojayGeneralAntilles: I think it's quite possible that we will.03:22
zerojayBut trying not to get my hopes up too much. :)03:22
GeneralAntillesThat . . . would be freaking amazing.03:22
*** satd has joined #maemo03:22
zerojayLike it's been mentioned, Sony did something similar with the PSP, underclocking it to 222mhz from 333mhz because of battery concerns.03:22
zerojay(Right as I say that, my kid hands me back my PSP.)03:23
zerojayBut these days, Sony's allowing games to dynamically change the clock speed.03:23
zerojayMoving it up to 266, 300 or 333 as needed.03:23
LateralusAnd removing the underclocking, afaik03:23
LateralusI'm certain I read they were removing that, but I don't recall what I was reading.03:24
zerojayUnless games manually change the clock speed, it stays at 222mhz.03:24
zerojayPlaying older games at higher clock speeds (hacked firmware) is great.03:24
zerojayWipeout Pure at 333... smooth as silk.03:25
zerojayEven a small bump up in operating speed would be nice on the N800 though.03:25
LateralusEntails a bump in price, and it's already not cheap.03:26
snowmoondid they fix the lcd/video bandwidth issue with the 81003:26
LateralusPersonally I'd like to see the camera and other things that are poor quality anyway removed in favor of a cpu upgrade.03:26
zerojayI like having a camera. I just wish it was better quality, but I still use it anyways.03:27
LateralusIt's effectively useless for me03:27
zerojayNot as good as the PSP camera, but what can you do?03:27
GeneralAntillesI'd use it if there were N800-to-desktop support for video calls03:28
GeneralAntillesand I can't imagine why there isn't already.03:28
zerojayYou know... it does seem kind of shitty that the PSP camera only cost me $40... 1.3megapixel... and they didn't even bother to put something that good in the N800.03:28
snowmoonGeneralAntilles: If the 810 / IT2008 supprt gizmo you should be able to video <->PC03:29
*** Ar-ras has joined #maemo03:29
_Monkeyniihau, Ar-ras03:29
zerojayGeneralAntilles: They're still working on it.03:29
pupnikafaik it's a limitation of omap 2420 not natively supporting 800x48003:29
Ar-rasIs it possible to connect a computermouse with the n800?03:30
Ar-raswith bluetooth03:30
Ar-rasdoes it get a cursor?03:30
snowmoonSo that would be yes, the 810 still has the broken hardware interface that will cripple full resolution video03:30
zerojayIt's not broken.03:31
pupnikthe pixels are so small that 800x480 video isn't very important03:31
zerojayI wish people wouldn't toss around a word like that so easily.03:31
GeneralAntillesBe nice if we could get a little higher bitrates, though.03:32
snowmoonthe 8x0 can not support full screen video because of compromises in design03:32
zerojayThat would always be nice, but I'm not willing to sacrifice other things to get it.03:32
*** RushPL_ has quit IRC03:33
zerojayBut even if they did, I'm sure it would have caused a negative uproar in one way or another.03:34
pupniki hope nokia sells millions :/03:34
zerojaySometimes seems like Nokia can never do anything right when you read ITT.03:35
x2-tableti love my 770 even03:35
x2-tableton it now lol03:35
zerojayI've got my N800 everywhere I go.03:36
zerojayIt's practically become my left hand.03:36
zerojayAnyone remember that N-Series website.. N Syndrome or something like that?03:36
x2-tabletyea :)p03:36
x2-tabletyea :)p03:36
x2-tabletis the 800 a lot better?03:36
x2-tabletim typing notes and crap on this now in class03:36
zerojayI don't have much experience with the 770, so I don't think I can help you with that.03:36
Ar-rassure N800 is better then 77003:37
zerojay - Even though the camera isn't great, just the fact that I have it with me all the time is nice and helpful. Never know what you might see. ;)03:38
x2-tableti use my razr for that now03:38
Lateralusx2-tablet: It's a good upgrade, but if you've already purchased a 770, I doubt you'll get much from the N800 that would justify the cost.03:38
x2-tabletdirect php upload03:38
zerojayI don't carry a cell phone.03:38
x2-tabletill wait for the new one03:38
x2-tableti do...03:38
Lateraluswell, the average person, that is. You may be a tech nerd, in which case, no generalizations apply.03:38
zerojayI refused to before and after two years of working on cell phones all day every day, I refuse to now.03:38
x2-tableti hook this to it03:39
GeneralAntillesN800 is a huge step up over the 77003:39
x2-tabletfor net03:39
GeneralAntillesEspecially for $23003:39
* x2-tablet checks if hes a tech nerd03:39
x2[HD1:: 32 C HD2:: 32 C Core 0:: 32 C Core 1:: 32 C Core 2:: 28 C Core 3:: 28 C]03:40
x2-tabletyep, tech nerd03:40
zerojayI think that maybe the fact that the N800 will be running IT2008 might be enough for me to justify the cost.03:40
zerojayAnd stay current for some time to come.03:40
x2-tabletit will?03:40
Ar-rasIT2008 Hacker Edition03:41
LateralusI haven't purchased a tablet yet, thankfully. I won't feel bad when I purchase an 810.03:41
zerojayNokia's stated several times that the N800 will at least get Chinook (IT2008) and Diablo (IT 2009?).03:41
zerojayAr-ras: Maybe.03:41
x2-tabletvery nice03:41
*** greentux_ has joined #maemo03:41
x2Pc Info:: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 [Speed:: 3.60 GHz | 1.46 | 400 * 9 | 8MB (0% Load)] [Memory::Used: 1256/4094MB @ ddr2 800 | 3-3-3-6 2.2v] [HD1:: 32 C HD2:: 32 C Core 0:: 32 C Core 1:: 32 C Core 2:: 28 C Core 3:: 28 C]03:41
Ar-rasdoes somebody tried to connect bt-mouse with the N800?03:42
x2-tableti dont think you can03:42
GeneralAntillesIt wont pair.03:42
x2-tabletthere is no cursor03:42
zerojayYes, there is03:42
x2-tabletthere is no cursor03:43
zerojayThe cursor is still used even if you can't usually see it.03:43
x2-tabletthere is?*03:43
Ar-raswhy should it not pair GeneralAntilles ?03:43
Ar-rasit uses HID-Profile03:43
zerojayIf you get X very busy, you'll see the watch cursor on the last place you touched the screen.03:43
Ar-raslike BT-Keyboards03:43
GeneralAntillesN800 expects a key, mouse doesn't.03:43
GeneralAntillesDoesn't work.03:43
GeneralAntillesDunno why.03:43
x2-tabletlol zerojay i noticed that03:44
Ar-raswhich vendor/model?03:44
zerojayIf you click and drag around then, you'll see it's a real cursor. ;P03:44
*** RushPL_ has joined #maemo03:45
x2-tableti just didnt think you could use it03:45
Ar-rasin scummvm we have a cursor :D03:45
zerojayThere's no real technical reason why it can't be used as far as I know.03:45
x2-tableti want a bt mouse now lol03:46
pupnikwow beautiful hi-res animations of 810 here
Tb0n3wait, why?03:46
Ar-rasI hope that I get next week the BT-Keyboard03:46
_Monkeymaybe is a good idea03:46
Ar-rasthen typing in university would be possible ;)03:46
x2-tabletim doing that now03:47
x2-tabletits fun03:47
Ar-rasthumbmode sucks ;)03:47
x2-tabletother people have their lappys03:47
x2-tabletand i have this03:47
*** milhouse has quit IRC03:47
pupnikwhat is the little box on the nokia headphones for 810 - an fm radio?03:47
Ar-rastried first day the sketch-mode03:47
GeneralAntillesHeadset, pupnik.03:48
GeneralAntillesMic, etc.03:48
pupnikah ty03:48
x2-tabletwe need a teamspeak port...03:48
Ar-rasx2-tablet what are you studying?03:48
x2-tabletjust business now03:48
Ar-rasdude we need webcam support03:48
x2-tabletat a local school03:49
x2-tabletwebcam would own lol03:49
Ar-rasthe webcam is crappy03:49
Ar-rasbut it is now so useless03:49
x2-tableti dont even have one03:49
Ar-raslike Nelson says03:49
*** milhouse has joined #maemo03:50
*** celesteh has quit IRC03:51
zerojayI think today's been a good day.03:52
zerojayNokia announces the N810...03:52
zerojayCapcom announces Street Fighter 4.03:52
zerojay"Contributors" will be able to get the N810 at a discount.03:52
zerojayNot just developers.03:52
zerojayNews on that coming tomorrow, apparently.03:53
zerojayFor all the negative stuff said on ITT about it, I'm hearing nothing but "sexy" all over the place about it from blogs and other people.03:54
*** jacques has joined #maemo03:54
zerojayI don't know if anyone looked back at the prototype pictures since this was announced, but it's clear in the prototype that the three side buttons on the left side are totally missing. Not that they aren't designed, but it looks like they were just not physically put in.03:55
*** Ar-ras has quit IRC03:55
GeneralAntillesITT is a mean place.03:55
zerojayThey're cynical because they care.03:55
zerojayI just wish it wasn't to such a degree.03:55
zerojayHonestly, it sometimes sours me on the tablets.03:55
pupniki'm immune to it.  there are no competitors for me.03:57
zerojayMe either.03:57
zerojayNothing else quite interests me like the tablets do.03:57
GeneralAntillesIt's like the perfect mobile device.03:57
zerojayI like buying products and not seeing a Windows logo.03:58
GeneralAntillesI'm so glad I bought the 770 when it was released.03:58
pupniki just showed it to an 80 year old schoolteacher and she was "ok i can see why this is exciting"03:58
zerojayI wanted a 770 so bad for so long.03:58
zerojaySee, I originally just wanted something to let me IM people wherever I was.03:58
zerojayExcept without a phone and monthly charges.03:58
zerojayI bought a ZipIt Wireless Messenger.03:58
zerojayAlso Linux.03:58
zerojayIt worked... but nothing special.03:59
zerojay(They just released a new version this month, much cooler.)03:59
*** greentux has quit IRC03:59
x2-tableti connect this to my razr and do that lol03:59
zerojayWhen I saw the 770... I wanted it bad.03:59
x2-tabletkinda am right now..03:59
x2-tabletbut im on wifi03:59
zerojayI finally had the cash.. but it wasn't being sold in Canada. I just got my company to buy it for me at the Nokia store in NYC and shipped it up to me.04:00
zerojaySo people here were a little confused when we got a package with a few Samsungs, a Nokia or two and I swiped mine and went to my desk.04:00
pupnik:)  do you ever get to montreal?04:01
zerojay"We didn't put it into our inventory yet!" "That's because it's *MINE*!"04:01
zerojayIt's been a while since I visited Montreal. Planning on going down there for Christmas and visiting my family.04:01
zerojayPack up the wife and kid and head on down the road for 2 1/2 hours.04:01
pupnikbest meal i ever ate was in montreal - Fierrera, the portueguese sea bass in port wine sauce04:01
zerojayNever tried it.04:02
zerojayWhen I was there last, I think I blew up my mother's mind when I showed her the N800.04:02
zerojayShe barely has a concept of what internet is.04:02
zerojayShe just knows it's popular and has lots of stuff on it.04:02
zerojayAnd naked people.04:02
pupnikoops caps04:03
zerojayI showed the stuff I was able to do with my N800 and she looked like she was about to cry.04:03
*** iva1 has joined #maemo04:03
zerojay"It's like a wonderful magic box!"04:03
x2-tabletlol  no kidding04:03
zerojay"Yes, ma... it is."04:03
x2-tableti need a teamspeak port!!04:03
zerojayIs teamspeak open source?04:04
GeneralAntillesHa, my mother has an iPhone. >_>04:04
x2-tableti dont think so04:04
x2-tabletnot sure04:04
zerojayNo port then.04:04
x2-tabletany of them04:04
*** RushPL_ has quit IRC04:04
zerojayVent is defintely not open source.04:04
x2-tabletmumble is on sourceforge04:04
GeneralAntillesmumble would be what you'd be most likely to get on Maemo.04:04
timelesszerojay: i'm curious to hear what you've done to bugzilla and any things you've encountered while using it. also whatever version are you using, and what you've enabled :)04:04
x2-tabletwould be nice04:04
zerojaytimeless: Here or in msg?04:04
pupnikit's cafe Ferreira, sorry - it's pricey food though, and you might need to reserve a couple of weeks in advance04:04
timelessit's a bit offtopic here :|04:05
*** TimRiker has quit IRC04:05
iva1Hi everyone! I've got a strange problem with mplayer: some avi files run fine without any special recoding, and some don't. Are there any ways of fixing it? Maybe downloading some codecs for mplayer or somethinh?04:06
*** dolske has quit IRC04:06
*** dolske has joined #maemo04:07
pupnikiva1: the biggest performance problem is resolution.  if you transcode them to 240 pixels high, pretty much any codec is playable04:07
GeneralAntillesI'm still looking for a reasonable solution to on-demand on-the-fly transcoding.04:08
iva1Yes, but it takes a lot ofmtime... What's max resolution mplayer can play?04:08
x2-tablettry ¨super¨04:09
pupnikGeneralAntilles: knots can do it now04:09
GeneralAntillesiva1, you're going to have to reencode just about everything to have it run smoothly on the N800.04:09
GeneralAntillespupnik: linky?04:09
pupnikhmm it's in early development i guess04:11
pupnikmy old link is broken04:11
GeneralAntillesHehe, well, google gives me a lot o finfo about tying them. :P04:11
pupniki haven't used it for that yet though - just streaming vids from pc04:13
pupniki guess mediaconverter is still the way to go04:14
shaprDoes anyone know how I can get kagu to play music via bluetooth A2DP?04:14
*** iva1 has left #maemo04:15
GeneralAntillesI was thinking about just rolling something with PHP and vlc since there don't seem to be any pre-built solutions out there that aren't Windows-based.04:15
timelesslast i checked n800 doesn't ship w/ a2dp ...04:15
shaprtimeless: instructions are here:
pupnikmy thinkpad hates my 77004:18
GeneralAntillesThey gonna fight? :P04:19
pupnikwas just looking at feeling sorry for it :|04:19
pupnikthink i'll call it 'wheezy' (toy story)04:20
GeneralAntillesThe Thinkpad or the 770? :P04:21
pupnikthinkpad - hasn't been out in 11 months04:21
bmidgleyany word on if n810 improves video bandwidth?04:23
GeneralAntillesSeems unlikely.04:23
timelessi think the main goal is not adding too many regressions :)04:24
GeneralAntillesIf only the N810 came in Dvorak.04:24
Tb0n3you can do that on the screen04:25
Tb0n3I'm sure04:25
Tb0n3suck it up and type qwerty when you're mobile04:25
GeneralAntillesHehe, I'd just about eliminated that necessity by no longer working retail. ;)04:25
GeneralAntillesBrings up an interesting point, is there any way to change the on-screen layout on the N800?04:26
Tb0n3it's not like you're going to be able to make use of the dvorak's inward stroke or right domanance shit on a handheld04:26
Tb0n3you can use a bluetooth keyboard anyways04:26
Tb0n3good luck with getting it in dvorak04:26
GeneralAntillesWonder if anybody has designed a thumb-appropriate layout.04:27
Tb0n3me? my hands have a lack of fucking nerve endings, they don't listen fast enough, so I can type fast with a qwerty but I don't think that dvorak would help me speed up04:27
Tb0n3it's called a keypad04:27
Tb0n3it wouldn't make any difference04:28
Tb0n3people would just get confused and it wouldn't speed shit up04:28
shaprI only hope my 770 isn't too wimpy to play A2DP music.04:28
Tb0n3also, what about people with large thumbs04:28
shaprMy thumbs are huge!04:28
snowmoonbmidgley: the video bandwith issues are tied to the processor and since that is the same... expect the same issues04:28
x2-tablethes still talking04:29
Tb0n3I just realized I was in #maemo04:29
x2-tabletill be back soon04:29
Tb0n3sorry about that04:29
*** x2-tablet has left #maemo04:30
Tb0n3and here I was hoping I'd be able to avoid my monologues04:30
shaprbut NOOO04:30
shaprIt's funny, wherever you go, there you are.04:31
Tb0n3well, people are stupid04:31
Tb0n3and I have little patience04:31
*** Lateralus has quit IRC04:31
GeneralAntillesand the grass is always greener on the other side of the fenc.04:31
Tb0n3me? my fingers are stupid04:31
Tb0n3not here04:31
Tb0n3my grass is as green as green04:31
Tb0n3I wouldn't mind winning the lottery, cause then it'd be so green it'd be fucking bluegreen04:32
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC04:32
Tb0n3and shapr, I finally get that "wherever you go, there you are" statement04:33
Tb0n3can't escape who you are04:33
Tb0n3unless that's not what it's supposed to mean04:33
Tb0n3well, that's my introduction, "Hi, my name is Tb0n3, and I'm a monologuer."04:33
snowmoonsounds like a persoal problem04:34
Tb0n3nah, I'm happy with who I am, I could do with a better attention span, more drive, but hey, I am who I am, and that's who I am04:35
Tb0n3if I wasn't so lazy I'd be even smarter than I am04:35
Tb0n3but I'm not04:36
Tb0n3I'm fucking autistic, if that has anything to do with it04:36
Tb0n3pronounced like "assburgers"04:36
Tb0n3it means I like to draw04:36
Tb0n3I'm corny04:36
Tb0n3not horny04:36
snowmoonsounds drunk to me04:37
Tb0n3it's fun to talk to everybody at once, just expressing your own thought process04:37
Tb0n3lets people really know who you are04:37
Tb0n3and no, no drinks in me04:37
Tb0n3I had sierra mist at dinner04:37
Tb0n3not none of them alcohols04:37
*** snowmoon has left #maemo04:37
* GeneralAntilles pokes the monologer in the ribs with a sharpened stick.04:37
shaprLet's see if I killed the sound on my 770 with this a2dp stuff...04:38
* shapr hopes it works!04:38
Tb0n3you spelt it wrong04:38
Tb0n3I like how the 770 is immortal04:38
* shapr starts up kagu and hopes for a bluetooth icon04:39
* shapr waits........04:39
* shapr waits more04:39
Tb0n3uh oh04:39
* shapr is still waiting.04:39
*** Deformative has quit IRC04:39
shaproh yes! I have the icon!04:39
*** elmo43 has joined #maemo04:40
Tb0n3hi disq, I apologize for the mess, I just can't help who I ams04:40
* shapr bounces cheerfully04:40
elmo43Thanatermesis: ? been keeping a distance lately? Or too busy?04:41
* pupnik looks a thumb04:45
* pupnik tries to imagine pressing 'up' on the 810 dped :/04:45
Tb0n3pj gpd04:46
Tb0n3oh god04:46
GeneralAntillesHopefully Nokia will make some better ergonomic decisions for the N90004:48
pupnikflash9 is great04:48
pupnikwell the guys in finnland aren't koreans.  the dpad must work with fat thumbs04:51
timelessyou're assuming it works04:51
timelessbut yeah, they aren't micro dpads04:52
*** matt_c has joined #maemo04:54
*** ajturner has joined #maemo04:54
pupnikbtw in this video you can see the device standing up on table with kbd extended
Tb0n3and it's all one big /04:59
*** shapr has quit IRC05:00
pupnikthe car holder + gps  will hopefully generate a lot of sales/interest05:02
GeneralAntillesYeah, I think the biggest think the early adopters are getting out of this hardware upgrade is the (potentially) increased user-base.05:03
|Rpupnik : does that mean the bluetooth headset will be supported on n800 ? :D05:04
|Rpupnik : (talking about first video)05:04
pupniki dunno bout all that05:04
pupniki bet that's reggie from ITT's kid holding the 810 in the pic05:05
GeneralAntillesLucky bastard. :P05:05
x2need a port of that05:05
x2id freak out05:05
GeneralAntillesHa, what's wrong with Gizmo or Skype?05:06
_Monkeyfree is probably 297205:06
timeless_monkey forget free05:06
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot free05:06
x2multiple people chatting05:06
timeless_monkey free is <reply>05:06
_MonkeyOK, timeless.05:06
GeneralAntillesGizmo is free for Gizme-to-Gizmo05:06
GeneralAntillesand you can do conferences through it.05:06
x2do I even have that?05:07
pupnikdid anybody figure out if charging through usb is possible on 810?05:07
x2or is a download05:07
GeneralAntillesIt's a download05:07
x2i just prefer server - client05:07
x2over any kind of calling05:08
x2or having to register05:08
GeneralAntillesIt's at the bottom there.05:08
GeneralAntillesWell, get to porting. :P05:08
x2time to install hacker 07 on my mms05:08
_Monkeymaybe is a good idea05:09
timeless_monkey forget maybe05:09
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot maybe05:09
timeless_monkey maybe is <reply>05:09
_MonkeyOK, timeless.05:09
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC05:12
*** GeneralAntilles_ has joined #maemo05:16
*** matt_c has quit IRC05:20
*** Tb0n3r has joined #maemo05:21
Tb0n3rnow I've got me CS2 again05:21
Tb0n3rwonder if I'll ever really have a need for photoshop05:22
*** Tb0n3 has quit IRC05:22
*** Tb0n3r is now known as Tb0n305:22
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC05:23
*** GeneralAntilles_ is now known as GeneralAntilles05:24
*** ajturner has quit IRC05:31
*** dolske has quit IRC05:41
*** dolske has joined #maemo05:42
*** tdb30__ has joined #maemo05:48
tdb30__has anyone been able to get wireless broadband to work over any of the nokia internet tablets through usb?05:49
tdb30__I have a sprint usb broadband card and wonder if I can use it.  I know the 770 has issues with power to the usb port or something, do the newer models have the same issue?05:50
x2I have no idea on that one05:51
x2that would be crazy though05:51
GeneralAntillesUSB wireless has three problems: drivers, power and host-mode.05:52
GeneralAntillesBluetooth tethering is the way to go.05:52
tdb30__Heh.  I guess that is a possibility.05:53
DeformatiUgh, does the pdf reader load the entire pdf to the ram or does it read on the fly?05:54
DeformatiBecause I cannot read my 20m pdf.05:55
Tb0n3loads fonts and stuff05:55
timelesseasy to verify, no?05:55
tdb30__But can't people hop on my internet when I'm using bluetooth to talk to the devices?   I never used bluetooth, so I'm not sure of how it works.05:55
timelesswhich os release?05:55
Tb0n3no tdb30__05:55
Tb0n3it's a secured connection05:55
Tb0n3you find the phone that's broadcasting itself05:56
Tb0n3then you connect to the phone with a pin number05:56
Tb0n3then on the phone you enter that number and create the connection05:56
Tb0n3then you can use your data plan or a dialup05:56
Tb0n3that answer your question?05:57
*** Big_B has joined #maemo05:58
Big_Bgood morning everyone(~ugt)05:59
*** egsavage has joined #maemo06:00
*** TPC has quit IRC06:00
*** egsavage has left #maemo06:00
*** TPC has joined #maemo06:01
tdb30__Yes, thanks very much tb0n306:02
tdb30__My friend just got a 770 or something and now he has me all interested ;)06:03
tdb30__It would be nice though if I didn't have to have this and a phone in my pocket.06:03
*** matt_c has joined #maemo06:08
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC06:08
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo06:09
pupnikthanks to ssvb's awesome work on mplayer, the 770 really shows off what a 225mhz arm9 can do06:09
GeneralAntillesWhat's the optimal for the 770?06:09
pupniki usually encode to xvid at around 700kb/s, 400x24006:10
pupnikgreat results at around 300MB/movie06:10
GeneralAntillesGot 2 770 lying around, so encoding stuff that would work on them as well as the N800 wouldn't be bad.06:11
*** matt_c has quit IRC06:12
x2pupnik wow06:16
pupnikxvid codec does a great job of smoothing out unimportant detail/noise06:17
pupnikadd a 3d denoise filter, crank down audio to 64kb/s mono06:18
*** skibur has quit IRC06:25
Tb0n3for some reason mplayer stopped working at all on my 770 OS2007he06:27
straindpupnik: What's your video source and what do you use to encode?06:28
|Ris anybody here using skype? is it possible to find someone's username by his email?06:29
|R(yes i forgot my username i created at random on the n800 and thus i can't get my pass back as they ask for stupid informations...)06:29
pupnikstraind: mencoder to encode06:30
straindI'm currently transcoding on my myth box (nuv -> xvid) to see how your suggestions look. :)06:37
tdb30__anyone know what the going price is for an n800 on ebay?  I see them at about $250, I'm wondering if it is high since the 810 was just released right?06:37
zerojaytdb30__: Used or new?06:37
timelesssince has new n800s for $240...06:38
tdb30__so $300 for a new one is WAY overpriced.06:38 includes shipping, but probably only to the us, not sure how much intl costs :)06:39
tdb30__I'm in the us, so no problem there.06:39
pupnikcan't get a 770 for $240 in germany06:44
* sxpert will skip the 800 and go straight for the 81006:46
sxpertthe integrated GPS and keyboard will make it a perfect surveying station06:47
pupnikcan maemomapper show map data without a cellfone/gprs connection?06:48
sxpertpupnik, as long as you have that part of the map in cache06:48
zerojayIf you have the maps saved, sure.06:48
* |R wonders if this n810 will eat into OQO's market...06:50
pupniki'm really hoping it will become a strong alternative to windows pdas06:52
pupnikat least for ppl not totally locked-into outlook06:53
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC06:54
pupniki dunno and the games of course06:54
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo06:55
|Ryeah, as long as FOSS wins, i'm happy07:01
*** pdz- has quit IRC07:02
*** dolske has quit IRC07:03
*** likebike has quit IRC07:06
pupnik|R: support prosecution of warez :P07:12
|Rpupnik : i do ;)07:15
|Rwell , not really but ... hehe07:15
|Ri don't use them :)07:15
|R(mostly , what does vrms say...)07:15
pupniki helped clamp down on warez at two workplaces07:15
pupnikand promoted linux of course07:15
|Rnvidia-drivers, java (which is GPLed now) and fonts... oh and unrar :P07:15
|Rhehe yeah :)07:16
|RI wouldn't go after persons, but corps, yeah sure07:16
pupniki understand07:16
pupnikbut one thing to realize is that the kids fail to see the benefits of OSS07:17
pupnikbecause everything's free to them anyway07:17
|RThey don't understand the format / carrier problem07:18
|Rgiving control over the format and where it goes and how it is filtered...07:18
pupnikThat too.07:18
pupnikI tell them "if you had to pay for all your windoze wares, you wouldn't think windows was so hot."07:18
*** chetan has quit IRC07:18
|Rin the end is even more important then what apps you used to generate it... most people aren't coders, so telling them they chan change it and that at first it doesn't work isn't the best aproach07:18
|Ri always tell about MSN as an opener, and how M$ can decice to censor words, and how the internet is becoming a vital democratic dialog/platform.... and 1+1 = 0 ...07:19
|Rbut i guess you just can't push it onto people...07:20
|Ryou have to let them hang themselfs ;)07:20
* |R wonders if an rtcomm for 3.2 will be released which fixes the tunnel problem...07:21
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC07:21
pupnikwhen the internet was new, microsoft tried to prevent adoption of TCP/IP07:21
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo07:22
zerojayJR: I doubt we'll see a new beta of RTCOMM until the version released with Chinook.07:22
|Reveryone tried and, fortunately, failed ! ... i'm afraid now though by services like google, having huge datacenters that do everything in a centralized way... web 2.0 is a crappy catch words wich hide centralization behin a social mass... it's not p2p damn it, it's central control07:22
|RI hope google is not turning the net into AOL 2.007:23
timelessgiven that chinook is probably at most a few weeks away, yes, everyone should be busy worrying about it07:23
czrheh timeless07:23
czrwe are..07:23
czrtimeless, you don't sleep ever, do you? :-)07:23
timelesssomething like that07:24
|Rpupnik : what do you think about the OpenMoko? The n810? How open those platform are and relate?07:24
pupniki like em both07:25
* |R is really hoping for a foture of distributed/decentralized networks at every OSI level...07:25
pupniknokia's approach helps them produce things on-time better :P  moko has done good work so far but is moving a bit slow07:26
czreven 4, 5 and 6? that would be scary07:26
|Rincluding layer >:]07:26
*** rkaway has quit IRC07:26
pupnikagree in principle07:27
|Rwell, maybe not 4-5-6 in the full OSI model ... evne though we could think about it ;)07:27
czryou'd have to come up with a DNS replacement first though07:27
|ROSI is bloated... let's keep to a stack 4 layer high :P07:27
|Ryeah, DNS is a pain and must be killed07:28
czrraw IPv6 ftw.07:28
|Rbut the Web is the biggest pain, everyone is building upon the browser07:28
|Rit's the new OS in the OS... we don't exploit p2p enough, like they do in china it seems07:28
|Rthey don't have stupid laws blocking p2p just because... and apparently the market is flourishing fast... i wonder if the next big thing will come from asia07:29
*** rkaway has joined #maemo07:29
*** MikaT_ has joined #maemo07:29
pupnikyou might be interested in 'increasing returns' 'path dependence' with relation to technology standards07:29
czrI don't think anyone is blocking p2p per se. it's distributing copyrighted content without permission which is the problem.07:29
|Ri was trying to amass links there to technologies, research and ideas about distributed systems (in a somewhat applied way)07:29
pupnikthat's a bit abstract to my viewpoint07:30
|Rczr : i know, but they are cracking down on networks, not filesharers07:30
|Rkill kazaa! kill amule! not kill madonna cds ... :(07:30
czr|R, depends on the country I guess. sure ISP do bandwidth throttling at least over here, but it's not all too aggressive07:31 is up07:31
|Rczr : where is here? :)07:31
czrwhere I am, obviously. :-)07:31
czrfinland atm.07:32
|Rczr : here in montreal (canada) it's getting harder and harder to get an ISP without a cap, ridiculous prices etc07:32
czrah, wasn't aware of that. maybe they just want to cash in on the extra traffic07:32
czrISPs are like that. they want to make money.07:32
|Rthe 2 main corps are putting out pricier services with slower bandwith every day :(07:32
* timeless sghs07:32
|Rit's bascailly the old national bell corp agains the big provincial cable07:32
timelessanyone here speak russian?07:33
czrtimeless, I read it.07:33
czrand speak. not write. (don't ask :-)07:33
|Rand then the CRTC (FCC for canada) decided to let people resell the adsl of the bell... anyway, it's a mess and we don't have real competition :(07:33
timelessthat's fine07:33
timeless 2) Expand some folder with goods categories.07:33
timelesswhat does that mean for those of us who wouldn't know a "goods categories" from a "dead mouse"07:34
czrI think it means "product categories"?07:34
*** dolske has joined #maemo07:34
* czr takes a look07:34
|Ranyone using ? :)07:34
timelessto be clear, tell me exactly which quare to click07:34
timelessuse coordinates07:34
timelessbecause there's no way i can read cyrillic over irc07:34
czrjust a sec07:35
timelesssounds Racey :)07:35
czrtimeless, all the gray buttons are separate "categories"07:35
czrthe first on the left top corner is "computers, notebooks, KPK (no idea)"07:35
czrthe ones with the annoying excel icons ;-)07:36
czrthe light blue "tab" just above that is "prais-list"07:36
*** Tb0n3 has quit IRC07:36
czrso I guess we're on the right page at least07:36
czrah. now I get the report07:37
czrbelow the gray buttons, there's a hierarchial "navigation tree"07:37
czron the left07:37
* |R wonders if he'll ever have enougth people running one mesh-routing algorithm to make it fun07:37
czrtimeless, if you first press the first top-left gray button (the one with the "computer" icon), it should open the hierarhical view just below the buttons07:38
timelesssome idiot is pissing me off07:38
czrthere will be two entries with "HP" and "SONY" there (for example)07:38
timelessand this doesn't work on the n800?07:39
czrI have no idea. you want me to test?07:39
czra sec07:40
czrbtw, I have stock opera on it07:40
* timeless shrug07:40
timelessthe guy complained about both, no?07:40
czrnot microb or anything07:40
czrlet me check07:41
czrkonqueror doesn't render it correctly either though ;-)07:41
czr(running a very old version of it here)07:41
timelessthe css looks over specified07:41
timelessmy bet is the site isn't close to correct07:41
*** MikaT has quit IRC07:41
czrwouldn't be too surprising07:41
*** doublec_ has quit IRC07:42
timelessheight = 3107:43
timelesssite's broken07:43
timelessRESO ****07:43
czrworks on opera on n80007:43
czrwant a screenshot?07:44
zerojayBelieve he attached one to the bug for both microb and Opera.07:44
timelessi so don't care07:44
czrah, great.07:44
timelessit doesn't work in firefox on windows07:44
czrdidn't find the screenshot tool anyway ;-)07:45
timelessthe code clearly generated a bogus value07:45
timelessnow back to yelling at this other guy07:45
timelessif you guys are awake and less angry than me, helpwaned in the other bug 535#c507:45
_MonkeyBug 535 might be found at
czrtimeless, (boy do I feel silly)07:45
czrbut honestly that was the first link I tried with N80007:45
timelessoh fwiw07:46
timelessi talked to a guy this week07:46
timelessand he contacted someone this week07:46
*** ryanfaerman has joined #maemo07:46
timelessthere was some vague indication of progress07:46
czron what? :-)07:46
timelessi should reopen it and move it to misdirected:Nokia07:46
czrthe buggy webpage?07:46
timelessprimary nokia content for our platform?07:46
czrI sent email to the webmaster at nokia07:46
czrbut that never solicited any response07:47
timelessi used internal channels and a finnish speaking intermediary07:47
czr"how suprising"07:47
timelessit'll be fixed07:47
timelessmy intermediary is good07:47
czrjust was silly debugging exersise. especially because of the gzip-encoded transfer07:47
* timeless nods07:47
timelessdid i tell you how to defeat that?07:47
timelessoops :)07:47
czror hmm. can't remember who did07:48
czrno :-)07:48
* |R wonders why is the only flash site completely fucked in his browser :P07:48
czrthat's too easy damn it!07:48
czrwireshark -> capture -> follow TCP stream -> export as raw -> clip the gzip data out from there -> gunzip..07:48
timelesswireshark sucks07:49
timelessi mean, this is basic functionality07:49
czroh yes. setup a switch through which all AP data passes with a mirror port too07:49
timelessit needs to just support it07:49
czrnp :-)07:49
*** GeneralAntilles_ has joined #maemo07:49
timelessfwiw, i had a js proxy server that i could use for debugging stuff like this07:49
timelessbut it was my previous employer's property07:49
timelessit made this stuff trivial :)07:50
czryup. someone suggested using ettercap in filter mode (so that it would rip out the gzip capability from the request)07:50
timelessespecially since it ran in gecko and was tunable w/ about:config07:50
timelessi could add arbitrary js to the proxy on the fly :)07:50
timelessanyway, shall i reopen the bug and move it to misdirected07:51
czrthat sounds like.. just about any site that uses js. they seem to add arbitrary js to the content too. :-)07:51
timelessor just add a comment w/ the note about the config bit07:51
czryou could add the comment at least. that would've helped a lot07:51
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC07:51
*** GeneralAntilles_ is now known as GeneralAntilles07:51
*** bergie has joined #maemo07:52
czrtimeless, so #535 is about missing unicode codepoints in device fonts?07:53
timelessthe summary clearly says:07:54
timelessDynamic Fonts not supported by opera07:54
timelessit's not asking for Tamil07:54
timelessit's not asking for unicode support07:54
timelessit's not asking for decoders07:54
timelessit's asking for:07:54
timelessDynamic Fonts not supported by opera07:54
timelessthe reason it asks for that07:54
czrI'm afraid to ask. what are Dynamic Fonts?07:54
timelessis because a long time ago07:54
timelesssee the link to bugzilla.mozilla.org07:54
timelessin short, netscape 4 and ie supported them07:54
timelesseither in the form of OTF (?) or APR/AFR (?)07:55
timelessbasically sites could include a reference to a file which the browser would download and load and use to render the page07:55
timelessmind you, fonts are a great way to send viral / exploit code07:55
czrhmm. MS introduced them. embedded fonts is the correct term07:55
timelessbecause very few people handle them correctly07:56
czrno wonder it didn't register. and yes, it was evil.07:56
timelessit wasn't really evil07:56
czrit was. truetype validation isn't trivial.07:56
timelessit was the only way for a certain group along the indian ocean07:56
*** jaek_ has joined #maemo07:56
timelessit doesn't have to be TTF07:56
timelessyou could also use Adobe's fonts07:56
timelesswhich is what netscape used07:56
czrhmm. IE only supported ttf.07:56
jaek_uh is there a decent dictionary program for english?07:56
timelessbut for reference, microsoft didn't parse TTFs well enough the last time i checked07:57
timelessthe definition of not well enough is BSOD btw07:57
czrtimeless, didn't claim they did :-)07:57
timeless(the fonts were of course broken, but the user doesn't care)07:57
czrused to do a lot of work with ttf round 2000-200207:57
timelessi played w/ them before that07:57
timelessand a bit annually as people complain about Dynamic Fonts07:58
timelessor various similar things07:58
timelessanyway, back to the bug at hand07:58
czrso, what you're saying that there are unicode codepoints for the language, there might even be fonts that cover those codepoints, but the webpages in question will not switch to unicode?07:58
timelessi need to get text into the bug explaining to the reporter why i'm obligated to comment07:58
timelessand why he's delluded07:58
timelessweb pages are typically dead07:59
timelesslike trees07:59
timelessasking them to switch is like asking a book to repaginate07:59
czrheh. love the analogy.07:59
timelessthanks :)07:59
timelessbut the point is, that i don't care about anything other than the bug summary08:00
timelessif he asks for X in Opera08:00
timelessit's my job to say that X in Opera won't happen08:00
timelessand if you want X in Gecko, you'll have to talk to mozilla.org08:00
timelesshe didn't ask us to install Tamil fonts08:00
timelessor encoders/decoders or ...08:00
timelesshe asked for support for Dynamic Fonts08:00
czrI guess his grief is partly due to waiting for a response for such a long time08:01
czror her.08:01
timelessi inherited that problem08:01
czrand the other part seems to be that you're responding in a technical manner which seems to go slightly over the top for him/her.08:01
timelesswe didn't own or have permission to talk in bugs.maemo.org08:01
czrthat sucks :-)08:01
timelessuntil the microb project was announced08:01
timelessuntil that time, i could have said "sorry, we're not paying opera to fix this"08:02
timeless"especially given that we're not trying to sell any devices in your market..."08:02
timelesswhich we aren't08:02
czrindeed, that was my question as well08:02
timelessi'm still amazed that we suppor Russian and aren't trying to sell there...08:02
* timeless needs to ask BI to replace this laptop, not having a functional 't' key *sucks*08:03
czrtimeless, I'd think that has something to do with project origins or smt. I don't know the specifics obviously :-)08:03
timelesswhich part?08:03
timelesssupporting russian or not selling?08:03
czrsupporting russian08:04
timelesspersonally, i'd support russian to keep my devs honest08:04
czrand besides, many russian-speaking people don't live in russia08:04
timelessbecause cyrillic isn't latin08:04
timelesswhich means slightly better testing08:04
timelessbut i doubt that's the reason why08:04
timelessit's too technical08:04
czrassuming you know when it looks like proper cyrillic vs just gibberish08:04
czryou'd be amazed :-)08:04
timelessthings can go wrong enough that it'll crash08:05
timelessthe honesty level i'd want is probably just that08:05
timelessremember, we can't get people who recognize proper English from gibberish08:05
timelessexpecting better from anythinhg else is ....08:05
timelessasking way too much08:05
*** konttori has joined #maemo08:06
timelessanyway, back to my bug08:06
straindI just noticed that Arjun is the OP and the latest reply.08:06
timeless"reporter", yes08:06
straindThat's what I meant to type. :)08:07
timelessi'm just here to reformat your brain, continue...08:07
timelessreporter: I'm *the* browser architect:
czrtimeless, I think it all boils down to this: "complaining here is absolutely pointless". bad timeless, bad..08:07
timelessand the people who have added comments did *not* understand the concept. They don't know what dynamic fonts mean with relation to the web. I do, I've been working (albeit not actively) on trying to get dynamic fonts supported in Mozilla for more than 5 years.08:07
timelessAnd I'm sorry, it's my job to respond to bug postings. I'm responsible for all bugs in the browser.08:07
timelessAs for the delay, I'm sorry, until my project was announced in June, I wasn't allowed to talk about the browser at all.08:08
czrI think that's pretty fair :-)08:08
czryou could also add that dynamic fonts are EVIL.08:08
timelessanyone else before i click Commit?08:08
timelessnah, i won't do that08:08
timelessi still want to suppor them08:09
straindSo the issue is Arjun was asking for a feature to be added to Opera, but since it's not open source...08:09
timelessstraind: arjun was asking us to pay opera to add a feature08:09
timelessfor which we'd get no return08:09
timelessa very very expensive feature08:09
timelessand i tried to explain that you shouldn't ask downstream to fix a bug like this08:09
timelessif arjun wants dynamic fonts in opera, arjun should talk to opera08:10
timelesswho will probably kindly offer arjun the bill08:10
czrtimeless, what are the odds that even if he would talk and pay to opera, that they'd actually fix his 800?08:10
straindI didn't read it as Arjun asking anyone to pay Opera to fix it.  He just wants it fixed. ;-p08:10
timelessnot sure how many millions it'll cost, my guess is considerably more than it cost for nokia to get opera for 770/n80008:10
czrI guess my point was, does opera actively offer their browser for the device?08:11
* czr nods08:11
timelessnokia paid for it08:11
czrwell, obviously, but that doesn't have to be the only business model for them (opera)08:11
timelessbut if arjun has enough money to pay for the feature, the pocket change for getting the software for the device should not be a problem08:11
timelessand that's really the proportion08:12
timelessadding dynamic fonts is a major feature08:12
*** matt_c has joined #maemo08:13
timelessporting an X11 application that ran on embedded devices to an embedded platform that runs X11 ...08:13
timelesssure nokia probably made some annoying requests, but they're trivial in comparison08:13
timeless(and no, i have no idea what nokia asked for, and if i knew, i couldn't say)08:13
timelessczr: do i cc Quim or just reply?08:14
straindI just spent 56 minutes transcoding a 60 minute video.  That seems a little wasteful.08:14
timelessjust a little?08:15
straindWell, I'm hoping I'll have something that will play on the 700 now.  That's worth something, and it's not like I was actively doing it.  Just waiting for it and doing other things.08:16
czrtimeless, you might ask someone else for that. /me is outsider.08:16
* timeless was wondering if straind would do that08:16
straindDo what?08:17
timelessfix your typo :)08:17
straindIt took me a while to realize I made a mistake.  It's so infrequent.08:17
GeneralAntillesI like engadget and their "Nokia N700"08:19
GeneralAntillesNot really sure what that is. >_>08:19
czrGeneralAntilles, it's the 770 with the virtual keyboard removed08:19
timelessczr: and Nseries added?08:20
czrtimeless, sure. it's for the busy corporate execs who prefer to point and click and can't be bothered with keyboards08:20
czruser friendlier model of 770 you see.08:20
timelessi thought corporate execs were eSeries08:23
* czr secretly wishes he'd be using the zSeries right now08:25
czrtoo noisy to have them at home, but very nice devices otherwise.08:25
Thanatermesiselmo43, just keeping a distance, i dont enter on the channel because IRC lost a lot of my time, pretty busy08:26
*** ryanfaerman has quit IRC08:27
czrbtw, anyone using the vmware images for maemo development?08:32
*** slomo has joined #maemo08:32
*** pleemans has joined #maemo08:32
*** tdb30__ has quit IRC08:33
*** GeneralAntilles_ has joined #maemo08:35
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC08:36
*** birunko|away has joined #maemo08:37
*** GeneralAntilles_ is now known as GeneralAntilles08:40
*** netx has quit IRC08:51
*** birunko has quit IRC08:51
*** bergie has quit IRC08:52
*** fab has joined #maemo08:54
*** czr has quit IRC08:58
*** netx has joined #maemo08:58
*** czr has joined #maemo09:00
czrhmm. X forwarding from within SDK is not possible?09:05
czr(with ssh)09:05
czrI have xephyr running on host A. I then do ssh -X host B (where I have the SDK installed). X forwarding with X client there works. I then do /scratchbox/login, and check DISPLAY (localhost:10 as per ssh default), but gtk complains that DISPLAY is not set.09:08
czrlocalhost:10.0 even.09:09
*** NetBlade has joined #maemo09:12
*** ab has joined #maemo09:20
*** Thanatermesis has quit IRC09:20
czrmeh. it was an xauth issue.09:24
*** tkharju has joined #maemo09:25
*** ruda has quit IRC09:27
czrhmm. any idea why there is no X86 version of osso-screenshot-tool?09:30
czr(there is one of the ARMEL side of SDK)09:30
czron the.. even.09:30
*** ttmrichter_ has joined #maemo09:30
*** fab has quit IRC09:31
GeneralAntillesBecause you can take screenies using the host OS if you're running under VMWare?09:31
czrassuming that I'm running under VMware, I could take screenies of the ARMEL side as well.09:32
czrjust wondering whether it's just some oversight.09:33
* GeneralAntilles is a Nooblette Without a Clue. ;)09:33
czrGeneralAntilles, actually my SDK is now running as a VM, but I have xephyr on my main machine, this way I don't have to have the vmware UI open at all (the vm is on another machine anyway)09:33
czrI'm using ssh to the vm and then /scratchbox/login and using ssh X forwarding so that all the graphics stuff comes back to my main desktop09:34
czrmuch more convenient than the vmware UI stuff, it's "jerky".09:34
timelessczr: did i  properly indicate that the other commens were entirely offbase?09:34
czrtimeless, wrt what?09:34
czrah, I should re-read the bug-entry now, shouldn't I? :-)09:35
czrmy X crashed a while ago.09:35
czryup. that seems right to me09:36
czrtimeless, you might want to add this link for the curious:
czrI think that's the thing that started the whole mess anyway09:38
czror even this:
czrthat's where the name comes from :-)09:39
czrI guess that's better, but you could throw both :-)09:39
timelessi'm kinda hold09:39
infobottimeless meant: i'm kinda old09:39
czrhmm. a new bot?09:40
timelessjust generally silent09:40
czrnever noticed it before :-)09:40
*** sp3000 has joined #maemo09:40
*** Thanatermesis has joined #maemo09:41
*** bilboed has joined #maemo09:41
*** bergie has joined #maemo09:42
czrtimeless, now that I think about it, I stumbled across WEFT back in 97 or 9809:44
czrI think that was when IE4 just came out09:44
*** Thanatermesis has quit IRC09:54
*** HGFB has joined #maemo09:55
*** greentux_ has quit IRC10:04
*** Atarii has joined #maemo10:08
*** booiiing has quit IRC10:18
*** red-zack has joined #maemo10:22
*** harobed has joined #maemo10:24
*** netx has quit IRC10:32
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo10:34
*** ticapix has joined #maemo10:35
ticapixThis may appears stupid, but is it possible to test the 0S2008 for N810 emulated under qemu ?10:36
ticapixwhen it will be out...10:37
*** guardian_ has quit IRC10:39
*** booiiing has joined #maemo10:44
*** sKaBoy has joined #maemo10:48
*** Tili has joined #maemo10:53
Tilihow good is support for Qt now?10:53
*** dneary has joined #maemo11:02
*** guardian has joined #maemo11:02
JaffaMorning, all11:03
*** mbuf has joined #maemo11:07
*** jonty has joined #maemo11:07
*** HGFB has quit IRC11:07
Big_BPupnik : r you here!!!!!!!!!!11:09
*** jonty has quit IRC11:09
*** sujan has joined #maemo11:10
*** ruda has joined #maemo11:12
Veggennow, *who* owns _Monkey?11:22
Veggennever got a reply on that one.11:22
*** _pcfe_ has joined #maemo11:22
VeggenWhy the hell did it have to reply on the "morning"?11:22
*** Atarii has quit IRC11:22
VeggenIt's just gonna confuse new users, thinking it's not a bot, trying to talk to it, etc.11:22
Veggenand it has *zero* value11:22
GeneralAntillesWelcome to the wonderful world of IRC bots. :P11:23
VeggenGeneralAntilles: I know. I once helped draft guidelines for "acceptable bots", and _Monkey violate quite a few of them ;)11:24
*** Thanatermesis has joined #maemo11:24
Big_Banybody please tell me how can i compile source code in maemo 2.2 target11:25
Big_Bplease anybody11:25
JaffaBig_B: gcc, make & dpkg-buildpackage. (Depending on original source language, of course)11:26
Big_Bya jaffa , Actually i need gcc full command for own project to compile11:27
JaffaWell, you've got gcc in Scratchbox, so it should Just Work[TM] - as long as you've got dependencies etc.11:27
Big_Bi compiled hello.c but i don know how to compile whole project11:29
Big_Bplease help me jaffa!!!11:29
VeggenBig_B: how much experience, beyone, ./configure, make and make install, do you have?11:30
Veggencompiling things?11:30
Veggencompiling in maemo is not going to be easy if you don't understand compiling/linking before starting it.11:30
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo11:31
JaffaBut, the counterpoint to that is that compiling in Scratchbox really isn't any different to compiling outside Scratchbox.11:32
Big_Blike this??11:32
JaffaBig_B: seen the tutorial?11:38
_MonkeyI haven't seen 'the', Jaffa11:38
Big_BJaffa: would you like to give  the link??11:38
*** pdz has joined #maemo11:39
*** henno has quit IRC11:40
*** henno has joined #maemo11:40
*** fab has joined #maemo11:40
Jaffa_Monkey: tutorial?11:41
_Monkeyi guess tutorial is wanting you to run sbox-config, but scratchbox tells me that command is old and to run sb-menu11:41
*** user__ has joined #maemo11:41
Big_Bthank you Jaffa11:43
*** ArthurDentN770 has joined #maemo11:46
*** Ivan_Chelubeev has joined #maemo11:47
ArthurDentN770good morning11:47
*** unique311 has quit IRC11:48
*** user__ has quit IRC11:49
*** greentux has joined #maemo11:52
*** Pio has quit IRC11:56
*** Ivan_Chelubee1 has joined #maemo11:56
*** _pcfe_ has quit IRC12:00
*** geaaru has joined #maemo12:02
*** Ivan_Chelubeev has quit IRC12:11
*** bedboi has joined #maemo12:12
*** zwnj has quit IRC12:13
hapis a new n800 os version available ?12:17
*** Pio has joined #maemo12:18
JaffaNope, mid-November when the N810 launches (at the earliest)12:18
hapah ok, sux12:19
JaffaEager to get it myself, looks very polished. Happy to wait for the serious bugs to be ironed out, though12:22
sxpertyeah, same here.12:22
mbufN810 uses same Maemo development environment?12:23
sxpertskipping the 800 was sound12:23
*** Sho_ has quit IRC12:24
Big_Bi got this error when i run autogen "configure: error: Library requirements (hildon-libsmm >= 0.1.2 hildon-fmmm >= 0.1.2 sqlite3)" in maemo 2.2 target . anybody please help me12:31
Big_Bi got this error when i run autogen "configure: error: Library requirements (hildon-libsmm >= 0.1.2 hildon-fmmm >= 0.1.2 sqlite3)" in maemo 2.2 target . anybody please help me12:31
Big_BJaffa : r u bg??12:32
t_s_ohmm, the N810 is a mixed blessing. sure it got gps and keyboard. but it got one less memory slot...12:39
flip^i can't say i've ever needed more than 2gb internally mind12:40
flip^heck i've got a 1gb and 2gb in mine and never got close to filling either (but i let my phone handle my music needs)12:40
t_s_omaybe so12:41
*** doublec has joined #maemo12:49
*** florian has joined #maemo12:52
GeneralAntillesThe N800 is such a ridiculously better bargain right now.12:53
*** sujan has quit IRC12:54
t_s_oheh, and i just got a leftover 770...12:56
t_s_ostill, its wsod and in service limbo (waiting for a response on what to do, trash it or return it)12:56
*** RushPL_ has joined #maemo12:59
*** GeneralAntilles_ has joined #maemo13:03
*** lardman|gone is now known as lardman13:05
lardmanwhat's the prognosis on video bandwidth?13:06
lardmanCan/Are the bus/chips be driven faster to provide more bandwidth?13:06
*** sKaBoy has quit IRC13:09
*** sKaBoy has joined #maemo13:09
*** sKaBoy has joined #maemo13:09
lardmanhmm, tumbleweeds13:10
* flip^ hands lardman a tumbleweed13:10
*** guardian has quit IRC13:11
GeneralAntilles_lardman, the word I've been hearing is, that since it's a processor design issue, it hasn't changed.13:12
lardmanah, but, /me looks for link....13:12
doublecThere's some mention of the issue here:
doublecin the comments13:13
*** sciboy has joined #maemo13:13
doublec"The N800 and N810 basically has the same hardware, so you can expect similar video playback behaviour (except for cases where there's been tuning, improvements and bugfixes, of course, but since IT OS 2008 runs on the N800 too, the gains will be similar). If it's really about screen bandwidth, I don't really see how driver changes could affect anything, since that's a hardware issue."13:13
lardmanthat post indicates that the bus speed (?) can be higher, but it's unstable in some way13:13
lardmanwhich is why I was wondering whether it can now be driven at higher freq (as the clock rate is higher, etc.)13:14
lardman@Per: no PowerVR support. Blending is done using the CPU, AFAIK. - shame13:15
*** ramo102 has joined #maemo13:15
lardmanit may yet happen I suppose13:15
lardmanand he also said afaik....13:15
sciboyLack of PowerVR makes me sad.13:15
lardmanI don't know about the hw, whether it makes sense to try to use it13:17
lardmanre the bandwidth issue13:17
doublecthere are no open source powervr drivers for linux13:17
doublecso a bit hard for nokia to support it13:17
lardmanthey can use a binary blob13:17
lardmanlike the wifi driver13:18
doublecThe closed source driver does not support linux kernel 2.6.x13:18
disqno device program announcement yet? :P13:18
lardmandoublec: yes it does13:18
*** mbuf has quit IRC13:18
doublecreally? The website I'm looking at says it does not. Got a link?13:18
doublec"Linux kernel 2.6 introduced major structural changes to the way driver modules are built and loaded. As a result, existing KYRO drivers are not compatible with any Linux kernel whose version is 2.6 or above. To keep using KYRO drivers, users are requested to use the latest available 2.4 Linux kernel version. We have currently no plans of providing drivers supporting updated kernels."13:19
lardmanget it from Ti, I have it here on my desktop13:19
sciboyWhat would it take to engineer open source drivers?13:19
lardmanprepending a reverse13:19
doublecsomeone capable of reverse engineering the existing drivers13:20
doublecand living in a country where that is legal13:20
doubleci suspect13:20
lardmanI also wonder about Jazelle...13:20
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC13:20
lardmannot too sure about what can be released13:20
*** t_s_o has quit IRC13:21
sciboyWell personally I have nothing against binary blobs, it's always better than nothing at all.13:21
*** guardian has joined #maemo13:22
lardmanI wonder if one is allowed to release a Jazelle binary blob13:22
lardmanif one knows how to enable it...13:22
lardmanfor omap2420 it points to the 2430 download, and there's a 2.6.x version13:23
lardman2.6.10, so rather old13:23
doubleclooking now13:25
lardmandoublec: what countries allow reverse engineering out of interest13:26
doubleci don't know13:26
*** egsavage has joined #maemo13:31
lardmanit might be interesting to create an image that will match the kernel/libc/gcc/xorg versions used by the Ti download and see if it works13:34
doubleci still can't find a powervr driver13:35
lardmanit's in the tarball in the zip file13:35
doublecmust have missed it13:35
doublecis it the omap2430 sdk?13:35
lardmanC:\TexasInstruments\OMAPSW GFX L16.4 SDK\binary_omap2430_gdp_linux_ogles_release\pvr.ko13:36
lardmanThe kernel driver is 1002kb in size!13:37
sxpertwtf ?13:37
sciboyBummer, that's a whole lot of reverse engineering. D=13:37
sxpertthere must be a doom clone inside that driver13:38
lardmanEverything else is fairly small13:39
lardman as I probably can't share the file13:39
lardmanwhat, WinXP? ;)13:40
sxpertno. a 1Mbyte driver13:40
lardmanI know :)13:40
doublecWhat about this SDK:
lardmanI think that's 2.4.x13:42
* lardman needs to remember his imgtec password13:42
sciboyusername and password13:42
flip^does skype does video (on maemo)?13:43
flip^well, on a n80013:43
doublecno skype video support on n800 yet13:44
wumpusopengl drivers are always huge13:44
wumpusbecause there's a whole lot of old crap in opengl that does need to be implemented :p13:44
lardmanwhy not make the lib large & the driver small13:44
lardmanthere can't be that much stuff to be done in the kernel driver?13:45
wumpusalso, there is usally a lot of special casing, for optimization13:45
wumpusauto-generated code13:45
flip^:( so i have to use google talk if i want video calling13:45
lardmandoublec: It's an SDK, not kernel driver in there13:45
wumpusI agree it's not that great an idea for an embedded device though :)13:46
lardmanwumpus: fair enough13:46
wumpuswhich is why opengl ES and such exists, but that might be too limited, I'd prefer a real opengl stack13:46
JaffaYay, announcement of a new device programme - and someone goes and asks about something which mud is perfect for on maemo-developers. Excellent :)13:46
lardmanwhere's the device program announcement?13:47
disqi wonder how much will they give the devices for13:48
disqit was $125 for n800 iirc13:48
doublecthe n810 is getting a lot more attention than the n800 did13:49
disqbecause it looks like a friggin iphone? :P13:50
Mikhoit does?13:50
sxpertalas, no multitouch ;-)13:51
sciboydoublec, A lot of users didn't seem impressed with the n800 when it started out.13:51
Mikhowhat are users impressed about nowadays?13:52
*** Tili has quit IRC13:52
doublecthere's always the problem with a gadget like this, when they've opened it and run the included programs and ask 'now what do i do with it'13:52
*** zwnj has joined #maemo13:53
disqyou install kagu on it.13:53
sciboyWill IT2008 have vorbis support included?13:54
disqafaik they didn't include vorbis13:54
lardmanI'm working on it...13:54
disqthere've been some complaints about that in maemo-users and whatnot13:54
doublecthere is a gstreamer vorvis plugin isn't there?13:57
lardmanyes, and tremor13:57
disqyes. there are two projects in maemo garage. mogg and ogg-support13:57
lardmanwhich is what you want to use really13:57
disqmogg even works with the default music system/player.13:58
JaffaYeah, the maemo-* thread about it with the ranty review is good13:58
doublecwhat does kagu use for playback? gstreamer?13:58
doubleckagu is very nice13:58
lardmanI don;t see why Nokia don't just install the tremor gstreamer plugin and be done with it13:58
doublecit's the first thing i show people13:58
disqkagu uses the default music system (or mplayer, optionally)13:58
disqoh, thanks. we tried gstreamer first but it was painful to get working correctly13:59
lardmanhow so?14:00
disqcouldn't get the end of song signal fire correctly14:01
disqukmp uses gstreamer but it's hacky, really. iirc it checked for song position/percentage14:01
sciboyOh, MicroB is going to be default?14:01
disqi want to try gstreamer again after chinook is released, though14:02
sciboyCool, which reminds me I need to check out svg when my N800 arrives.14:02
sciboyMaybe even canvas as a pixel buffer if it's supported.14:02
*** ticapix has quit IRC14:05
Jaffasciboy: yeah, Opera's gone14:05
disqi wonder how good the latest microb is14:06
*** elmo43 has quit IRC14:06
disqthe official release is still slow during page loading14:06
JaffaNo worse than Opera for me.14:07
doubleci've been trying to build microb14:08
doublecIt's a struggle14:08
doublecmainly due to my lack of knowledge with building maemo stuff i suspect14:08
sciboyOh, anyone got a Jaiku invite?14:08
doublecis it invite only?14:09
*** lardman is now known as lardman|afk14:10
*** ruda has quit IRC14:10
sciboyI believe so.14:11
*** ruda has joined #maemo14:11
*** ruda has quit IRC14:11
doublecahh, from the mailing list it seems that the latest microb source needs chinook14:15
*** lardman|afk is now known as lardman14:16
inzHmm, I wonder if I should upgrade the wordpress package...14:16
inzThe new one works, but upgrade doesn't...14:17
inzMaybe I should try to fix upgrade...14:17
*** Pio has quit IRC14:20
*** Pio has joined #maemo14:22
* lardman sets out to modify his dsp framebuffer task to perform scaling and colourspace conversion14:24
koenit took me 21 seconds to find
koenmostly because my sucky internet connection14:24
lardmanhi koen, how are you?14:25
koenpretty good, apart from a cold14:25
koenhow are you?14:25
lardmannot bad thanks14:25
lardmanhow's openmoko coming along? When's the new phone out?14:26
koenslowly and "december" according to the latest gossip14:27
czrhey koen14:27
koenhey czr14:27
lardmankoen: :)14:28
koenI'm trying to put 'chinook' into OE now14:28
doublecwhat is OE?14:29
lardmandoublec: openembedded14:29
*** matt_c has quit IRC14:29
koenbut I'm getting stuck at nokia incompetence14:29
lardmankoen: it would be nice to use OE to generate arbitrary binaries14:29
koenevery maemo tarball unpacks to 1_<version>14:29
koeninstead of <name>-<version>14:30
disqso make a script that runs basename, mkdir's and extracts there14:30
lardmanjust an added difficulty14:30
disqkinda boring tho14:30
koenI prefer to rant here14:30
* koen will start gloating when two maemo products will have the same version number14:31
Jaffalo koen14:32
koengood afternoon mister Flegg14:32
*** |tbb| has joined #maemo14:33
lardmanwhat kernel version are we on with the 770?14:36
|tbb|will the wlan adapter of the n810 be the exact same as on the n80014:38
* lardman wonders why we have 2.6.16 kernel headers under chinook, but the n800 has 2.6.18...?14:40
*** acme has quit IRC14:44
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo14:48
*** cy-_ is now known as cy-14:49
*** acme has joined #maemo14:50
*** Big_B has quit IRC14:51
*** matt_c has joined #maemo14:52
*** fsmw has joined #maemo14:52
* lardman sees that you can perform fb updates via a mailbox command from the DSP :)14:54
*** ajturner has joined #maemo14:54
*** egsavage has quit IRC14:58
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo15:02
*** lardman is now known as lardman|lunch15:03
*** skibur has joined #maemo15:05
*** javamaniac has quit IRC15:06
*** mbuf has joined #maemo15:06
*** colinl has joined #maemo15:07
*** ian_brasil has joined #maemo15:11
*** celesteh has joined #maemo15:12
*** jnettlet_ has joined #maemo15:12
*** matt_c has quit IRC15:14
*** matt_c has joined #maemo15:15
*** matt_c has quit IRC15:17
*** colinl has quit IRC15:17
*** colinl has joined #maemo15:17
*** matt_c has joined #maemo15:18
*** Tili has joined #maemo15:18
Tilihow is the support for audio15:19
Tiliportaudio i wanted to use in maemo15:19
*** colinl has quit IRC15:19
*** colinl has joined #maemo15:20
*** doublec has left #maemo15:26
*** luck^ has joined #maemo15:26
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo15:28
*** jnettlet has quit IRC15:29
*** egsavage has joined #maemo15:31
*** colinl_ has joined #maemo15:31
*** colinl has quit IRC15:31
*** colinl_ is now known as colinl15:32
*** m-vo has quit IRC15:38
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo15:42
*** sciboy is now known as sciboy|etqw15:43
*** matt_c has quit IRC15:46
* DRoBeR is away: Burger Rata Strikes Back :D15:51
*** colinl has quit IRC15:52
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo15:52
*** cmarcelo has joined #maemo15:52
*** satd has quit IRC15:52
Andy80are there any known problems with website in the user profile section? I'vre registred and created an account. I got the confirmation email and I logged into the "Garage". But now I cannot log into profile... why?15:53
*** etrunko has joined #maemo15:54
*** vivijim has joined #maemo16:03
*** k-s[WORK] has joined #maemo16:04
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo16:08
*** MoRpHeUz has joined #maemo16:10
*** satd has joined #maemo16:10
*** kenne has joined #maemo16:10
*** DaniloCesar has joined #maemo16:11
*** red-zack has joined #maemo16:11
*** pleemans has quit IRC16:13
*** matt_c has joined #maemo16:15
*** red-zack has joined #maemo16:17
*** pleemans has joined #maemo16:17
*** krau|away is now known as krau16:18
*** red-zack has quit IRC16:19
*** red-zack has joined #maemo16:22
*** red-zack has joined #maemo16:24
*** red-zack has joined #maemo16:26
*** colinl has joined #maemo16:27
*** red-zack has quit IRC16:28
*** red-zack has joined #maemo16:29
*** Andy80 has quit IRC16:29
*** cwiiis has joined #maemo16:32
*** GeneralAntilles_ is now known as GeneralAntilles16:34
*** ryanfaerman has joined #maemo16:34
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC16:36
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo16:38
*** etrunko has quit IRC16:42
*** etrunko has joined #maemo16:50
*** etrunko has quit IRC16:53
*** pleemans has quit IRC16:59
*** sciboy|etqw is now known as sciboy17:00
*** etrunko has joined #maemo17:01
*** ticapix has joined #maemo17:02
*** lardman|lunch is now known as lardman17:09
lardmanso what is this profile thing all about? What does one do to prove one's worth - list stuff on your own website?17:10
TakI would imagine that relentless hacking on dsp stuff would qualify one17:11
lardmanwell perhaps, just wondering though :)17:11
lardmanif nothing else it will force me to update my website17:11
sciboyWoah, Nokia has a forum.17:12
lardmanyeah, but for at least some of it you need to pay17:13
lardmanpay per question17:13
GeneralAntillesThat's special.17:13
sciboyDon't forget the quotation marks.17:13
*** fab has quit IRC17:15
GeneralAntillesI didn't sciboy. :P17:16
GeneralAntillesSarcasm, not finger-quotes. :P17:16
*** Thana` has joined #maemo17:18
*** Thanatermesis has quit IRC17:18
*** Thana` is now known as Thanatermesis17:18
* sciboy googles mtpaint on the n80017:24
*** harobed has quit IRC17:27
*** geaaru has quit IRC17:30
GeneralAntillesJust installed TuxPaint17:33
GeneralAntillesMakes me laugh17:33
GeneralAntillesReminds me of Kid Pix17:33
pupnikso you have sdp writing to framebuffer now lardman?17:33
Sho_Hm, I made a Garage account, and yet can't log into I'm assuming the two user DBs are not immediately synced, but on some kind of interval. Does anyone know the frequency?17:35
pupnikcreate another account17:37
Sho_I'm going to assume that won't work because the mail address is taken now17:37
pupnikuse another addr17:37
pupnikKids love tuxpaint17:38
Sho_I'm somewhat keen on using the address I used for the first account, though ..17:38
juh0hmm does n800's upcoming os2008 upgrade include map application?17:39
*** mgedmin has quit IRC17:39
wumpusare you sure it aren't just two seperate systems, and you can register with your normal mail account again?17:39
Sho_wumpus: The "Create account" goes to the Garage account creation17:40
Sho_wumpus: I'm assuming they are seperate systems, but synced on a cronjob I don't know the interval for17:40
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo17:41
*** bedboi has quit IRC17:41
Sho_ah, now the login works - the cronjob ran I guess ;)17:43
*** jacques has quit IRC17:44
*** sladen has joined #maemo17:45
*** Vudentz is now known as Vudentz_AWAY17:49
*** mbuf has quit IRC17:50
*** fab has joined #maemo17:53
Jiten_juh0: even if it doesn't maemo mapper will most likely be easily installable.17:54
zoranthe point is in preinstalled maps17:54
Jiten_as right17:55
infobotJiten_ meant: ah right17:55
*** Jiten_ is now known as Jiten17:55
zoraninfobot s/as/ah/17:55
*** tkharju has quit IRC17:56
*** k-s[WORK] is now known as k-s[AWAY_WORK]17:57
*** m-vo has joined #maemo17:59
juh0damn wayfinder looks great, voice guidance etc , i'd like to use it also on n80018:01
juh0i have tried maemo mapper beta 2.0, but actually you can't compare them18:06
*** Gray9Mar has joined #maemo18:13
*** bedboi has joined #maemo18:14
*** Gray9Mar_ has quit IRC18:16
*** red-zack has quit IRC18:17
*** TimRiker has joined #maemo18:18
Takno?  maybe they need to implement the Comparable interface...18:18
*** ch4os_ has joined #maemo18:20
*** mazzen has joined #maemo18:21
*** red-zack has joined #maemo18:21
*** lardman is now known as lardman|afk18:21
*** Gray9Mar has quit IRC18:23
*** jono has joined #maemo18:25
jonohi all18:25
jonodoes quim gil come on here?18:25
zoransomeone compiled conntrack module for any os version on maemo?18:25
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC18:26
TakI've seen quim in here - I'm not sure how regularly he comes in18:26
*** derf has joined #maemo18:27
*** DaniloCesar has quit IRC18:28
*** booiiing has quit IRC18:28
timelessjono: do you need him for something in particular?18:29
jonoany other nokia people here?18:29
jonotimeless: yeah, an interview18:29
jonotonight on LugRadio18:29
timelessum, got a phone number?18:29
jonofor him?18:29
timelessfor you?18:29
timelessi can ask him to call you...18:30
jonotimeless: if he can mail me thats fine - just mail me at jono AT ubuntu DOT com18:30
timelessgot a specific message?18:30
jonowith his number - we would like to interview him at around 8pm UTC18:30
jonotimeless: do you work with him?18:30
timelessfor a very loose definition, i suppose18:31
timelessi'm most certainly not authorized to give interviews18:31
jonoI mean, can you call him?18:31
timelessi just did, no answer18:31
timelesshrm, that's in 5 1/2 hrs?18:32
timelesskeep in mind, that's 11pm18:33
timelesssms sent18:33
timelessno guaranees18:33
infobottimeless meant: no guarantees18:33
Takkind of short notice18:33
jonook thanks :)18:33
jonoyeah, our current interview fell through so we would like to discuss the N81018:34
timelesstak: blame anssi :)18:34
*** Atarii has joined #maemo18:34
* Tak blame ISO instead :-P18:34
timelessmay i ask what the scheduled interview subject was?18:34
*** |tbb| has quit IRC18:34
Thanatermesisthose osso applications are in gtk ? can be used on a normal linux system or needs to compile special libs and stuff ?18:36
*** `0660 has quit IRC18:37
jonotimeless: I can't say18:37
jonowe are doing it in the next show18:37
*** k-s[AWAY_WORK] is now known as k-s[WORK]18:37
timelessfair enough18:37
pupnikThanatermesis: your question is confused18:37
jonothanks timeless18:37
Thanatermesispupnik, those nice gagdets that's on the desktop for configure bluetooth, wifi, etc... are simple gtk applications or its other kind of lib ?18:40
*** harobed has joined #maemo18:41
timelessin theory there's an sdk and documentation18:41
*** NetBlade has quit IRC18:41
timelessafaiu the apis are the same ones used for gnome desktop (mostly)18:41
Thanatermesismmmh, that's again a new dependency for the system..18:42
*** Gray9Mar has joined #maemo18:43
* VimSi get all wuschig about the n81018:43
*** VimSi is now known as VimS18:43
*** lardman|afk is now known as lardman18:43
lardmanframebuffer gurus - any of you about here?18:44
*** ajturner has quit IRC18:48
pupnik  analogue controller18:50
*** korpios has joined #maemo18:53
lardmanrather snazzy18:55
*** tank1770 has quit IRC18:56
lardmananyone about with a 770 (not running hacker edition)?18:57
*** |tbb| has joined #maemo18:57
lardmancould you take a look under /sys/platform/devices/dsp/ and look for a file that gives you the DSP gateway version number please18:58
lardmanhang on and I'll try to be more specific18:58
pupnik /sys/devices/platform/dsp/19:00
lardmansorry, typo on my part19:00
lardmanwould probably by ifver19:00
pupnik3.2  3.319:01
lardmansame as on n80019:01
pupnikwant a cat * on pastebin?19:01
lardmannah, but thanks19:01
lardmanI've been looking though the dsp-side and arm-side kernel code...19:02
lardmanand on the arm side there is a way to do a framebuffer update, not sure there is on the dsp side...19:02
lardmanbut there must have been for the 770 (as it had framebuffer altering dsp tasks)19:03
*** harobed has quit IRC19:03
pupnikrefereing to the xsp i assume?19:05
lardmanwhat's that?19:05
pupnikthe pixel doubling19:06
lardmanah, no, more to do with framebuffer access and how to force an update from the DSP-side19:07
zorandoes anybody tried to use python libraries to run as kernel module?19:07
lardmanxsp is done on the ARM-side by the LCD controller19:07
pupnikall i see for this is  include/asm-arm/arch-omap/omapfb.h19:07
Jitendoes gtk/hildon have a widget that can show text and understands basic html tags like <font> <b> and such?19:08
Jitendoes it support multiline text too?19:08
lardmanpupnik: I'll dig out the files when I get home - WinXP search fn not working well19:09
pupniklardman: You have the TMS320C55x Hardware Extensions for Image/Video Applications Programmer's Reference PDF?19:10
lardmanpupnik: what it came down to was that the arm (kernel) side of the dspgateway can accept a mailbox call to perform an update, but the DSP-side doesn't appear to #define this19:10
lardmanpupnik: yes19:10
lardmandsp-side doen't seem to define it that should have read19:10
TakJiten: yes19:11
*** ryanfaerman has quit IRC19:11
* lardman is waffling19:11
inzDamn, I'm trying to fix sqlite-wordpress upgrade19:12
inzsqlite 2.x doesn't support alter table :(19:12
*** tank1770 has joined #maemo19:12
*** lmoura has joined #maemo19:13
JitenTak: looks like <font> will not work.19:14
Jitenneither does <br> ... it doesn't quite do enough :/19:15
Takno, it takes literal linebreaks19:16
Takyou'll probably need gtkhtml for more complete html rendering19:16
lardmanare there actually members of the public who have n810s already?19:17
Jitendoes maemo have it?19:17
Jitenlardman: yes, there are several reviews out already19:17
lardmanJiten: any useful info in them - dmesg output, list of kernel modules, etc.?19:18
JitenI haven't seen any.19:18
Taknot sure19:18
timelessjono: ok, quim ponged, hopefully he'll poke you shortly19:18
* sp3000 hungry19:19
* sp3000 homes19:19
mazzenhi! i try to flash gregale on my nokia n770. but i always get "Finishing flashing... Sending request 0x52 failed!"  i used SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin  from any ideas?19:22
lardmanwhat's happened to ?19:22
*** ijon_ has left #maemo19:22
Takmazzen: which flasher are you using?19:22
mazzeni used this: sudo ./flasher-2.0 -r SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R19:23
mazzenbut i tried flasher3-0-static also19:23
JitenI guess I get to use GtkTextView widgets with a self built parser.19:23
mgedminmazzen: wrong command line, use -F, not -r19:24
mgedminflasher -f -F SU-18-blablabla.bin -R19:24
*** ab has quit IRC19:24
disqupgrading my sbox from 1.0.7 to apophis r4 (1.0.8) with apt. hope it works and doesn't break my previous configurations19:24
disqgotta try some chinook sdk love19:25
*** sKaBoy has quit IRC19:25
lardmando we know whether the non-beta will change anything significant (like the version of scratchbox?)19:26
disqnot sure19:26
disqthe initial announcement says "the beta sdk has known issues and some missing packages"19:27
disqbut afaik r4 is the latest sbox1 there is19:27
lardmanpresumably it will all be tied down by mid November19:27
mazzenmgedmin: thanks, but if do " sudo ./flasher-2.0 -f -F SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin -R" the flashing process doesnt start19:28
disqi'll compile maemopad+/rdesktop for 4.x as well as try to port maemoscrobbler (the cp plugin could give me some headache)19:28
mazzenmgedmin: ah! it works with the flasher3-019:29
mazzenmgedmin: thanks!19:29
czrsp3000, I see great progress :-)19:29
lardmanstrange that, is it a change in the file format I wonder?19:29
disqkonttori: hey. around? had time to test kagu in 4.0 yet?19:30
disqi want a multipart replacement for wget19:31
disqdownloading sbox 60k/s is no fun19:31
*** _k-s[WORK]_ has joined #maemo19:32
*** abner|away has joined #maemo19:32
*** greentux has quit IRC19:33
* mgedmin once accidentally shaped himself to 30 KB/s, and that was not fun19:33
*** abner|away is now known as birunko19:33
*** kenne has quit IRC19:33
sciboyDo I use GPE for todo lists?19:34
*** kenne has joined #maemo19:35
||cwyou can, there are a couple other PIM options too19:35
*** bergie has quit IRC19:35
sciboyWhich would you recommend?19:35
Takhmm, it would have been nice if had filed a bug...19:36
Jitenbe sure to leave him a note that it might be useful to notify the developer if something doesn't work.19:38
Jitenthat is... file a bug on him ;)19:39
pupnikpeople are conditioned to not contact developers from the windowz/commercial world19:39
JitenI know19:39
lardmansee you later chaps19:41
*** lardman is now known as lardman|gone19:41
lopzbuenos dias xD19:42
Takheh, I responded on ITT19:42
||cwsciboy: can't, been to long since I used them19:43
*** jonty has joined #maemo19:46
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo19:47
*** jono has quit IRC19:48
*** birunko|away has quit IRC19:49
*** celesteh has quit IRC19:49
*** k-s[WORK] has quit IRC19:50
pupnikdid you see the InfoNES emulator Tak?
pupnikThere's an updated core for it, but it mainly fixes compatibility issues.19:51
*** spect has joined #maemo19:52
*** _k-s[WORK]_ is now known as k-s[WORK]19:52
*** florian has quit IRC19:52
*** javamaniac has joined #maemo19:58
*** fsmw is now known as fsmw_19:58
sciboyOh, the n810 has 2GB built in.20:00
sciboyEh, the IT2008 will allow clocking to 400mhz?20:04
pupnikthe people who claim that don't back it up with evidence20:04
JaffaThere's mention that a "Nokia product manager" said it... we'll see20:05
sciboyIt won't be long before we find out anyhow.20:05
JaffaFirst release of Java-based tablet-encode (successor/sibling to Perl-based 770-encode) should be released tonight.20:05
JaffaNeatly coinciding with the device programme :-)20:05
disqit's not impossible. igor stoppa from nokia was working on power management and dynamic cpu speed stuff he even had a presentation posted in maemo-devel about running the n800 at 400mhz etc20:05
*** greentux has joined #maemo20:06
wumpusheh, they probably didn't put it at 400mhz to prevent the battery from draining even faster20:07
*** |tbb| has quit IRC20:07
sciboyJaffa, Device programme?20:08
*** vivijim has quit IRC20:09
czrJaffa, tablet-encode?20:09
sciboyAh that.20:10
czrheh. have to love the second comment though. "I want a device, too."20:10
*** vivijim has joined #maemo20:10
Takheh @ Jaffa20:10
czrhmm. how come the main page shows that there are 5 comments, and the page itself only shows 3 of them?20:11
suihkulokkicomments stuck in moderation que?20:13
*** Tili has left #maemo20:13
*** Vudentz_AWAY is now known as Vudentz20:13
*** ramo102 has quit IRC20:14
czrsuihkulokki, there is moderation in
czron even.20:16
suihkulokkino idea20:16
czrlet me see20:18
Atariianyone got xmame workin on 2007os?20:18
*** roxfan[work] is now known as roxfan20:19
TakAtarii: yes - what's the issue?20:20
pupnikNokia announced very high battery life playing music - looks like improved power management and/or dynamic cpu clocking20:21
*** beavis has joined #maemo20:22
disqdyncpu could be there20:24
TPCmaybe they are upgrading to a 2.6.22 or later kernel20:25
TPCthat kernel had some new features that saves power20:25
*** m-vo has quit IRC20:25
TPCa friend of mine got 20% longer battery life with it20:25
TPCon his laptop20:25
* flip^ reads up and wonders if it'd ever be possible for an end user to get a n800 running/modded to run at 400mhz20:27
TPCwhats the point?20:27
_Monkeyi heard the point was to make the user happy20:27
*** mik_ has joined #maemo20:27
TPCI'd rather go lower in mhz, and get longer battery20:27
sciboy_Monkey wins.20:27
_Monkeysciboy: huh?20:27
flip^TPC: the n800 is great for most things, but on some things (like decoding video that hasn't been specifically reencoded for the device) it can often fall just a *little* short of smooth playback... and so on20:28
flip^and for geeky curiousity20:28
flip^ok, quite a bit for geeky curiousity20:28
sciboyTPC, There were many games under the GP2X that required overclocking to play smoothly.20:28
sciboyIt's an option that'd be nice for developers and users to have.20:28
TPCGP2X is a different thing20:28
TPCit used replaceable batteries, so battery life wasn't as important20:28
TPCyou could get 10 rechargables and bring as spare20:29
sciboyHeh, tell that to the guys who use it.20:29
TPCits obviously still important, but not in the same way20:29
mgedminTPC: some say that running the CPU at a higher speed may consume less power because running slower takes longer20:29
sciboyThey underclocked it a lot to.20:29
sciboyIt's mainly just about scaling to the demands of an application.20:30
Jitenyou mean, running at low speeds until some software actually needs to the power?20:31
TPCmgedmin, that is stupid20:31
TPCa faster cpu might have more efficient power consumption20:32
* mgedmin searches for the reference20:32
sciboyPretty much, applications don't require 100% of the power 100% of the time.20:32
pupnikyou can take along 10 BP-5L batteries too TPC20:32
TPCpupnik, BP-5L batteries are alot more expensive20:32
TPCthe GP2X use normal AA ones20:32
pupnikwhy do i see many bp-5ls li-polymer batteries on ebay for 2-7 euro?20:33
TPCmgedmin, but nothing is stoping the cpu manufacturers from implementing that more efficient power consumption in their slower cpus20:33
TPCexcept that they wouldn't make as much money20:33
sciboypupnik, Compare the amperage.20:33
suihkulokkiinstead of foaming on irc, read the power managment presentation from:
pupnikall say 1700 mah20:34
TPCcan you get batteries for the N800 that last longer than the included one?20:34
pupniksome say 1800 mAh20:34
TPCwithout having to make any case modifications to make them fit that is20:34
sciboyTPC, You can get an external battery pack that lasts 2 days with wifi on.20:34
disqsuihkulokki: exactly.20:34
*** slomo_ has joined #maemo20:35
sciboyThe N800 charges off it.20:35
*** red-zack has quit IRC20:35
sciboyProbably much easier than carrying around 10 BP-5L's20:36
*** cwiiis has quit IRC20:37
disqanybody have an n810 right now? i'm wondering if they changed the systemui (power key menu)20:37
disqshortkeypress=softpoweroff longkeypress=menu is so useful they should make it the default20:38
TPCsoftpoweroff, is that locking the screen and keyboard?20:39
TPCif not it would be useless20:39
TPCbut if it is, then I agree with you20:39
disqit is screen turned off with locked keypad/touchscreen20:39
TPCyeah, thats what I meant20:39
disqnot the "lock screen and keys" though.20:39
disqin softpoweroff mode touchscreen or keypad events are all ignored, and screen is turned off. to get it back you need to keep your finger on the powerbutton for a few (1? 2?) secs20:40
*** ville- has joined #maemo20:42
*** ryanfaerman has joined #maemo20:42
*** guardian has quit IRC20:43
timelessdisq/tpc/sp3000: any idea what's up w/ that color shift? is it significant? should i push back to the art people here?20:44
timelessand who noticed/why?20:44
disqours is just a little more red20:45
timelessyeah, we compared and observed a slight difference20:46
timelessis it significant enough that i should push back?20:46
timelessi have about 2 hours and 0 build engineers/artists20:46
timelessbtw sp3000's page made it, at least as far as we can tell20:46
timelessso thanks to all of you for helping out20:47
* timeless makes a note to add that to the announcement20:47
* timeless frowns20:47
timelessthis might be some sort of lesson learned entry20:47
*** VimS has quit IRC20:47
*** VimS has joined #maemo20:48
*** slomo has quit IRC20:48
*** |tbb| has joined #maemo20:49
disqgood to hear. and the bright tone is not an issue. but of course if you need more time to polish other stuff, you could use it as an excuse :P20:49
timelesswe're too schedule driven for me to be able to use that excuse20:50
timelessthere's actually one window, and i'll be using it, but not for that20:50
timelessyou'll see in my announcement, which i might publish now.20:50
timelessI need to review it20:50
*** ArthurDentN770 has quit IRC20:54
disqmmm. somehow no fm radio in n810. maybe they just didn't bother to compile it20:55
* czr whines softly to sp3000 about the exec20:55
timelessther'es no fm radio hardware20:55
*** vol has joined #maemo20:55
sp3000czr: *whimper*20:56
disqit didn't have RDS anyway :P20:56
sp3000didn't occur to me at the time :)20:56
czrnp :-)20:56
czrdidn't occur to me on the first post of the bug either.20:56
mgedminone of the n810 review claimed it had an fm *transmitter*20:58
mgedminfor beaming your songs to a car radio20:58
czror maybe it has a lazer.20:58
disqlasers ftw20:58
mgedminheh, for ripping audio CDs20:59
czrripping all kinds of other stuff as well20:59
mgedmin"rotate the CD slowly while aiming the n810's laser at the grooves"20:59
czrthat's what the GPS is for20:59
mgedminfor stabilisation, right20:59
czrit tells you how to rotate the device evenly around the CD20:59
*** m-vo has joined #maemo21:00
*** sciboy has quit IRC21:00
*** satd has quit IRC21:01
*** sciboy has joined #maemo21:01
*** TimRiker has quit IRC21:03
*** erstazi has joined #maemo21:03
mgedminthis is the review that claims an FM transmitter:
timelessi'm looking for a place to get a card21:07
timelesssomething like, "you're our hero"21:07
mgedminit also mentions  "class 8 and 9" AJAX :-)21:07
timeless(in Finnish)21:07
*** TimRiker has joined #maemo21:08
sciboymgedmin, Considering the inclusion of GPS it makes sense for in-car hook up.21:11
disq"Hardware key to lock touchscreen and keys" oooh. is that what it is? the top-right key? i thought it had something to do with gps21:12
disquh. i currently have 30 tabs open in opera (not the n800 one :P )21:14
sciboySays the screen is brighter too, wonder what that means under direct sunlight.21:15
czrsciboy, it activates the lazer.21:16
sp3000no need to keep eyes open even21:16
sciboyAbout that, does it come packaged with minions or do we still have to purchase those seperately?21:16
mgedminit comes with a gps so that minions can find21:17
sciboyI assume that also means a steady stream of hero's?21:17
sciboyI need to feed the dragons and lazer-porpoises you know...21:18
kalawhen I'm using ITOS 2007 hackers edition on the N770, should I install Gizmo for N800 or for N770 ?21:20
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo21:23
disqtexrat in ITT: "As for the speed increase, what I've read says that it will occur in only certain circumstances"21:26
*** guardian has joined #maemo21:26
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo21:27
czrdisq, "when the device is powered off"? :-)21:27
*** mazzen has quit IRC21:29
sp3000timeless: ok, my card finding skills ~ 021:29
sp3000I don't know of an approximately equivalent likely phrase21:29
*** pdz has quit IRC21:31
Takwrt prospective n810 laser: "Can I attach it to my shark?"21:32
mgedminkala: I never tried OS2007HE, but my understanding is that the N800 version is more likely to work (but only if it doesn't depend on new ARM6 instructions), but the 770 might also work21:32
*** pdz has joined #maemo21:34
czrTak, I'm sure there will be some shark-kit-accessory available later21:34
czralthough giving GPS capabilities to sharks is pretty scary21:35
*** xan has joined #maemo21:35
Takit will strike a blow for shark rights21:36
Takno longer will they be forced to wander aimlessly through our planet's oceans21:37
czrthe jaws movies will have to be re-made.21:37
sp3000won't somebody think of the pirates21:37
czrand will be slightly more interesting too21:37
czrjaws 2000.21:37
SLiYeah, they will have to devise a way of making us people think they still wander aimlessly while they further their secret plans.21:38
*** pupnik has quit IRC21:38
czrsp3000, the swedes deserve all the sharks that are headed that way! :-)21:38
czr+ yarr.21:38
Takmy 770 just rebooted spontaneously - I think it's rebelling against all this shark/laser talk21:39
czrTak, maybe it doesn't know how to swim. yet.21:40
*** dolske has quit IRC21:41
*** dolske has joined #maemo21:42
Tak...which is odd, bc it was paused...21:43
*** ryanfaerman has quit IRC21:43
*** ajturner has joined #maemo21:45
timeless_monkey tpc?21:46
_Monkeytimeless: bugger all, i dunno21:46
*** dolske has quit IRC21:46
timeless_monkey disq?21:46
_Monkeydisq is probably correct21:46
timeless_monkey forget disq21:46
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot disq21:46
disqwhy? i am always correct21:48
timelessi kinda want to credit you by name if you don't mind21:49
* sciboy grabs Firefox 3.21:49
SLiAnybody else notice how painful it is to use emacs on n800? ;)21:50
wumpususing emacs is always self-torture :)21:50
deejoeeditor wars, the gift that keeps on giving.21:50
SLiBeing able to use vi nicely took some time too before I figured out how to type ESC.21:51
wumpusyeah, vi is another such jewel :)21:51
deejoeyeah, I need to use ^[ on my ThinkOutside keyboard.21:51
derfvi works great on the N800.21:51
derfYou really start to appreciate all those key-stroke saving features.21:51
wumpusyeah, saving keystrokes is very nice if you have to use the onscreen keyboard21:52
SLiYeah, but I had to figure out how to add ESC to the terminal shortcuts :)21:52
SLiBut yes, vi is definitely less painful than emacs on n800 with on-screen kb.21:52
wumpusgenerally I just ssh from my desktop machine though to edit files21:53
SLiYeah, that's the easiest way.21:53
wumpusa bluetooth keyboard would be nice in this case, but I don't use the device for typing work21:54
kalamgedmin: thanks. it seems that the 770 version is more stable. but I'm not yet able to make any calls :)21:54
disqtimeless: name? need my full name?21:55
wumpusI wonder if the keyboard in the N810 is any good21:55
mgedminSLi: don't you like the hardware Esc  button?21:55
derfSLi: There's a hardware escape key.21:56
SLiThere is?21:56
SLiWhich one is it? :)21:57
mgedminit's a secret button21:57
mgedminthe little round one with the arrow21:57
mgedminthat goes to the prev page in the browser21:57
SLiNice to know :)21:57
SLiThen it should be almost possible to use emacs too :P21:58
deejoeas for keyboards, I'm trying to get to the point where I can leave the laptop at home more and more.  Having a BT keyboard helps with that.21:59
SLiAlthough I'm not sure if the terminal supports ctrl-space, never got that to work when trying to use emacs through ssh. Although I must admit using emacs with the on-screen kb is a bit pointless perhaps.21:59
wumpusdeejoe: but isn't carrying around a keyboard and the device just as much hassle as carring a laptop?21:59
sciboy <- Can someone test this with MicroB?22:00
wumpusI suppose a bt keyboard takes more space than the device itself22:00
sciboyDoes it work, and does it work smoothly?22:00
deejoewumpus: not my behemoth 15.4" beast22:01
deejoeI can fit folding keyboard and n800 in my waist pack.22:01
deejoeI haven't weighed the two, though.  I suspect the weight ratio is closer than the volume ration--the keyboard is heavy.22:02
SLisciboy: I only get the title (h1?) and a short vertical red line below the C, a bit to the left.22:02
deejoevolume ratio*22:02
sciboySLi, That's wierd.22:03
keesj " canvas item?22:03
keesjsciboy: that's the "new canvas item"22:03
wumpusprobably the battery that makes it heavy22:03
sciboykeesj, "new canvas item" meaning what?22:03
SLiAlthough hmm. I get the same after I choose Opera. I wonder if my render engine choice thing works.22:03
sciboySLi, It's for Mozilla.22:04
deejoewumpus: nah.  it's just one AAA battery22:04
keesj<canvas id="c1" width="500" height="300"...></canvas>22:04
SLisciboy, yeah, but I chose Set engine -> MicroB in the n800 browser menu.22:04
sciboyWhat about it, keesj? Firefox 2 has had it supported for quite a while now.22:05
*** dolske has joined #maemo22:05
sciboySince MicroB supposedly uses Gecko 1.9, why doesn't it work?22:05
SLiI'm not sure my browser used MicroB even if I chose it, because it looks identical in the Opera engine.22:06
*** unique311 has joined #maemo22:07
wumpusmicrob probably drops some features to save memory etc22:09
sciboyThat's a bummer though, that means I don't have a pixel buffer to do effects. =(22:09
sciboyThe alternative is everything has to be prerendered, this game is going to be using quite a bit of space. =/22:09
keesjperhaps that flash is better suited, programming it using mtasc looks a lot like the javascript code in the browser22:11
SLiHmmh, is there a separate microb application or is it just a engine plugin for the n800 browser?22:12
sciboyNah, screw flash.22:12
SLiBecause I can't get it to use MicroB even if there's that choice in the menu.22:13
sciboyThe game is being done in javascript, if I don't have a pixel buffer to prepare svg graphics at the beginning of a level instead of when it comes on screen, I'll have to substitute with prerendered png sprite sheets.22:13
OkkoSLi: it is another engine. there was some setting that had to be changed so that the menu appears.22:14
SLiOkko, the menu does appear, but at least the user agent doesn't change regardless of the setting.22:14
OkkoSLi: try some ajax site and maybe you can tell a difference. might be a bug in the user agent string?22:14
OkkoSLi: (just guessing)22:15
SLiHmm, maybe. I'll try to find a difference.22:15
sp3000sciboy: vlad's canvas thing wfm on the microb I have22:15
SLiShould it reload the current page with the new engine when I change the engine or do I need to refresh?22:15
*** x2 has quit IRC22:16
sciboysp3000, Does the animation appear smooth?22:16
sp3000sciboy: wfm is worksforme22:16
sciboyCool that's great news.22:16
sp3000if you get all the elts growing at the same time it gets a bit slideshowey but then that happens on my laptop too so meh22:17
sp3000and, uh, if you're not at zoom=100% ... :O22:17
czrhmm. some flash game?22:18
sciboyczr, Hmm?22:18
SLiNow I think I have microb working.22:18
czrsciboy, what are you talking about? :-)22:18
*** Lariso has joined #maemo22:19
czrit's not lazers with sharks.. I'd recognize that anywhere.22:19
Larisodoes anyone know if samba server was ported to run on os2007he ?22:19
sciboyczr, I'll be trying to do a game for the N800 using javascript.22:19
czrsciboy, that's evil. EVIL. :-)22:19
czrdoes it work? mind you, I only have the default user image on mine (no microb)22:20
SLisciboy, ok, now I see your canvas demo correctly. Somehow my browser just didn't use microb even when I told it to.22:20
sciboySLi, Thanks. =)22:20
sciboyczr, I can't use SVG because that'd get too laggy since it renders when it comes on screen.22:21
SLiNow it also gives a different user agent string. :)22:21
* czr nods22:21
sciboyczr, So instead I had two options, render everything out to PNG, or use canvas to create a pixel buffer at the beginning of a level.22:21
czris SVG useable even on N800?22:21
czrI mean, not very very slow-like.22:21
SLiSVG... it's a great idea gone horribly wrong, IMO.22:22
czrsvg-tiny is pretty ok22:22
ds3GNash port?22:22
czrsome of the more obscure stuff like filters and text stuff is pretty difficult to do properly imho22:22
Larisoanyone know of an easy way of putting a status message on the home screen when a shell script runs ?22:22
sciboyDepends how simple the graphic is, I was looking at opacity, blur and rotation on bitmap graphics.22:23
*** sxpert has quit IRC22:23
sciboyczr, Hence my need for that pixel buffer. ;)22:23
czrLariso, yup. give me a sec22:23
SLiRather complex, very ambiguous standard documents, and the repeated mistake (from postscript) of making it turing complete :P If I understand correctly, it didn't strive to be a flash replacement, it was made turing complete only because it could be done... I might be wrong though.22:23
Larisoczr: thanks22:23
czrLariso, check the example in the start of the bug report:
czrit uses d-bus to send request for an "info dialog"22:24
*** sxpert has joined #maemo22:24
czrthere are similar other mechanisms as well (infoprint being the other one)22:24
czrbut I hope your message doesn't contain spaces! ;-)22:24
Larisothat's fab thanks22:24
Larisowell, spaces are not essential ;)22:24
* czr nods22:24
Larisoone day i'll work out python..but for now shell scripts are enough22:25
sp3000sciboy: something like doesn't fare that well :)22:25
SLiI must admit I feel somewhat horrified in the n800 world, installing all stuff from random sources. Too long away from Windows, I guess.22:25
* sp3000 gets about 1fps on that22:25
derfSLi: It's different when you can go read the source code.22:26
czrLariso, if you need other options, you'll have to read the source code for libosso22:26
czrLariso, look for "infoprint" implementation and the symbolic constants giving the D-Bus method names22:26
Larisolol that was easy!22:26
SLiderf, yes, I know. But I'm too used to having the source available with apt-get source, most(?) maemo repositories don't seem to offer source packages. (Are they even supported the same way as in Debian?)22:26
Larisook will do22:26
sciboysp3000, My game is staying well within the realm of 2D. =P22:27
Larisothis script contains the hooks for sending gui-stuff i assume22:27
sp3000Lariso: it does some env defs and such22:27
derfSLi: Most people don't do development on the device itself.22:27
sp3000you may not need it esp except in sb22:27
czrLariso, no, not really. it just pulls some environmental variables and then _incorrectly_ just invokes the rest of the arguments22:28
SLiderf, yeah, I don't either, I have scratchbox, but still.22:28
sciboysp3000, Also I'll be using canvas in a fairly minimal way aswell, it's just there to render graphics before they even come on screen, making it significantly quicker while the game is running.22:28
czrLariso, dbus-send is a generic small utility to send d-bus method calls.22:28
derfAnyway... I've complained about the lack of an organized repository before.22:28
derfIt does not seem like a problem Nokia is terribly interested in fixing.22:28
*** satd has joined #maemo22:28
czrLariso, and is the "service" through which you can ask for simple dialogs and silly things.22:29
Larisook i think i'll be able to get on with that22:30
Takthe problem is that, if nokia offered an "official," organized repository and enforced debianlike standards, everybody would complain that it's too difficult and just host their own repos anyway22:30
* czr wishes, once more, that Nokia would document the d-bus interfaces.22:30
Larisoit's not for anything fun, just for me to debug all the little scripts i'm writing to do awesome stuff with my n770 :)22:30
Takhell, that's already happening with garage extras22:30
sp3000 pretty.22:31
Takbest screensaver evar22:31
derfTak: That's because the normal model is that the distribution maintains the repository, not the software developers.22:32
czraww. that's pretty22:32
Takderf: the debian developers maintain the repository22:32
derfRight. But not the authors of the actual packages.22:33
derfExcluding perhaps some Debian-specific packages, but those are completely dwarfed by the volume of non-Debian specific packages.22:33
*** Thanatermesis has quit IRC22:33
* czr wonders for a very very short moment whether he should port the real-time ifs-generator to N800 ( ). That's about 15M particles (with a lot of other stuff as well, static pictures don't really do justice to it)22:33
sciboysp3000, One sec, want to find some fun javascript examples.22:33
*** bedboi has quit IRC22:34
deejoeI'd very much appreciate a repository up to the standards of debian or ubuntu22:34
*** IceTux has joined #maemo22:34
czrspeaking of screen savers ;-)22:34
Takheh - the difference is that nokia *wants* people to develop software for maemo, and debian couldn't give a shit less if people's software makes it into debian22:34
SLiOk, seems to have sources for everything. :)22:34
derfAnd I bet you the actuall _people_ who do Debian development and Debian package management do not overlap much.22:34
deejoebinary repository, that is.22:34
derfTak: One of the reasons I stopped using Debian.22:34
Taknokia has to become the 400kg yeti before it gets a herd of people drooling to become maemo repo maintainers22:34
deejoeit's a pet peeve of mine to see people extol apt, when in fact it's not apt, but the quality of the repository that makes it work22:35
deejoeor, as in the case of my n800 and it's slew of broken repositories, not work.22:35
Takderf: and yet you're begging for debianlike structure22:35
Takdeejoe: it's both apt and the repos22:35
IceTuxdoes anybody know if the new nokia n810 has got an alu case22:35
deejoeapt may be necessary, but it's far from sufficient, as is implied when people extol apt with nary a peep about repository quality.22:36
derfTak: It's not the structure that's broken.22:36
czrit's the dependencies and their quality really (repo quality I guess)22:36
*** pleemans has joined #maemo22:36
SLiapt has the nice enabling concept of Suggests: and Recommends:, although I guess those are not used by maemo? And perhaps other systems have copied that by now, I don't know.22:36
VimSIceTux: from the pictures, it looks like alu at least some kind of metal ;)22:36
*** Thanatermesis has joined #maemo22:36
Takdeejoe: gigo22:36
IceTuxok thanks22:36
derf_Users_ benefit from having an organized, central repository.22:36
czrI managed to break the repos on my device within two hours of using it afaim22:36
SLiBut other than that, I agree that the Debian package repository is very high quality indeed.22:36
*** IceTux has left #maemo22:36
*** |tbb1 has joined #maemo22:37
derfBut to get there Nokia might have to *gasp* pay some people to work on such a thing.22:37
Takderf: only if there are an army of maintainers22:37
derfI don't think there's that much maemo software that it would take an army.22:37
VimScouldn't it made simpler22:37
VimSi mean we have the garage right?22:38
sciboyActually could someone try this in MicroB and tell me how smooth the animation is?22:38
VimSif every projetct on the garage was able to upload their packages wouldn't it be simple to just make ONE repo out of it ?22:39
sciboyThat's about as demanding as my game would be.22:39
TakIMO the garage could become a lot of what people want22:39
*** lopz has quit IRC22:39
derfIt could, with some work.22:39
derfIt doesn't look like it's going to.22:39
VimSat the moment it missing a good search funktion an a list... i liked browsing the old maemo repo site :(22:39
SLisciboy, maybe 3-5 fps.22:40
Takthe first major step toward making it happen is for the garage extras repo to be included in the preinstalled AM sources22:40
sciboySLi, Bugger.22:40
m-voTak, it will be in OS 2008 (aka Chinook, aka what the N810 comes with)22:41
*** jonty has quit IRC22:41
VimStak: think that could be difficult because of copyright issues?22:41
sciboyI'll have to see how I could work the content around that once the device arrives.22:41
Takm-vo: killer22:41
SLisciboy, but then it's bigger than the screen, with scroll bars.22:42
* Tak mentally associate m-vo with mailing list content22:42
VimSany chance the will be a hackerOS2008 ?22:42
sciboySLi, And the tiling probably doesn't help either.22:42
* VimS huggs his 77022:42
m-vothe extras repo will be disabled, tho.22:42
Larisook so i can just run dbus-send directly from a prompt.. i don't need run-standalone22:42's included, but disabled?22:43
czrLariso, on the device yes22:43
Larisoahh ok22:43
sp3000sciboy: that page just does black for me on microb for whatever reason22:43
czrLariso, on SDK you need run-standalone.sh22:43
Takdoesn't that seem kind of useless?22:43
sciboySLi, But the current plan had about 4 objects scrolling around on screen most of the time, if that doesn't work I'll have to cut back a lot. =P22:43
sp3000(the former one works fine although slow)22:43
* Lariso wonders what else dbus-send can do22:43
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo22:43
VimSTak: i think it will be up to the user to activate them ;)22:43
czrLariso, dbus-send doesn't do all that much. but there's a lot of stuff sitting on the d-bus that can.22:44
SLisciboy, I'd imagine that might be doable.22:44
Larisofor some reason i am reminded of when I used to hack about on my old psion 322:44
Tak...which kind of makes it useless22:44
Lariso(not suggesting this is anywhere as simple!)22:44
Takunless the user will be helpfully prompted or something22:44
VimSwe'll see22:45
Takthere's already a huge clickthrough warning about nonNokia software22:45
czrLariso, there are almost no docs on the d-bus stuff available on the device though. so if you really want to find out, you'll have to do a lot of "hacking" around.22:45
* VimS can't wait until november22:45
t_s_oany info on the N810 video bandwidth?22:45
Larisothat's ok, it gives me something to do at work22:45
m-voWell, it is easy to enable it once you discover the "Catalogues" dialog, and we hope that giving the extras repo the special status of being pre-configured makes it more desirable for people to put their packages into it.22:46
VimSthen the iphone comes out here too22:46
*** dockane has joined #maemo22:46
Takhas anything been done to increase the discoverability of the Catalogues dialog?22:46
m-voI'd say there isn't enough QA in front of the extras repository yet to feel confident about enabling it by default.22:47
m-votak, no.22:47
sciboySLi, So would I, I'll have to do some tests when I get my N800. It comes down to a background, a mid ground and two animated sprites.22:47
Takm-vo: kind of a catch-22 imo22:47
VimSm-vo: what must one do to get his packackes on the extras repo ?22:47
keesjm-vo: I agree22:47
Takunless it's got increased visibility, it will be difficult to muster a community QA effort22:47
Takunless there's good QA, it's difficult to justify increased visibility22:48
*** matt_c has quit IRC22:48
m-votak, yes, it's not revolutionary to pre-configure that repository, but it hopefully also shows some commitment from Nokia's side.22:48
TakI understand the motivation22:48
Takand I'm not complaining; I'm trying to be helpfully analytical22:49
SLiBTW, anybody know about maemo-mapper, seems it's a one person project, whether the author would mind me hopping in and sending some patches for new features and bug fixes? If I find the time. I already have a short todo list for it.22:49
m-votak, yes, it's appreciated.22:49
derfSLi: The author would appreciate it.22:49
TakSLi: I suspect he'd appreciate22:49
derfIf he doesn't, I'll go downstairs and have words with him.22:50
pupnik_N810 will bring a new surge of activity to the community, just like N800 did22:50
m-vothere seems to be no way around separate distributions for development versions and end-user-ready versions of packages.22:50
m-voof course, we should do this for the whole OS, not just applications.22:50
*** bedboi has joined #maemo22:51
SLim-vo, the debian model is nice, with stable/testing/unstable, although I guess it would be most useful to just take testing and rename it to something else (where packages migrate when they have been in unstable for a while with no serious bugs filed).22:51
*** unique311 has quit IRC22:51
*** bedboi has quit IRC22:51
sciboySLi, I'm just hoping this works out, I'm not into blitting and if the canvas pre-render actually works out that's actually a huge advantage over other 2d game engines.22:51
sciboySLi, Enabling me to do things that are simply not possible at real-time and keep file-sizes relatively low.22:52
SLim-vo, assuming new os releases about once per year, Nokia will probably want to keep a "stable" repository themselves then. :)22:52
TakI'd love to see more devs publishing to garage extras, and more QA for extras packages22:52
m-voSLi, yes.  The Debian model would fit us quite well, I'd say, even internally.  Instead of having only one eternal unstable like Debian, we might need to start out with one unstable/testing/stable silo for each major release, but that's details.22:52
czrif only you wouldn't have so frequent releases22:53
* Tak not complaining about frequent releases22:53
*** Thanatermesis has quit IRC22:53
czrwell, me neither, but I don't think the "debian model" would work all that well with high freq "stables"22:53
derfTak: As I said before, devs don't do package maintainence.22:54
SLiRelease early, release often. Although it's a small pain to have to reflash new releases, but I don't know how much I'd appreciate cutting other development time for providing a smooth upgrade path.22:54
Takmaybe they should22:54
*** |tbb| has quit IRC22:54
Takparticularly since, for the ITs, user/dev/packager tends to be a closed loop22:55
derfWhy? It's a completely different skillset than programming, and appeals to a completely different set of people.22:55
* Tak indicates previous statement22:55
derfOut of necessity, not choice.22:55
TakI dunno - I first obtained a 770 to hack on it22:56
SLiYeah, and then should every developer be obligated to package their software for every different distribution and to know all the peculiarities of each? I can tell there's enough quirks for one person even in Debian.22:56
*** thejapanesegeek has joined #maemo22:56
derfAnd now you've got ITOS 2005, 6, 7, 8, the 700, N800, N810... chances are your dev is going to have exactly one combination of those.22:56
SLi(Maybe especially in Debian, since their guidelines are rather strict.)22:57
*** pipomolo42 has joined #maemo22:57
derfAnd they will do the minimum amount required to get the thing installed on their device.22:57
thejapanesegeekis it possible to install an apt repo on a flash drive?22:57
derfAnd no more.22:57
m-vothejapanesegeek, sure, use a "file:///" URL.22:58
TakQuoth the derf, "and no more."  ;-)22:58
sciboyThanks for everything guys, here's hoping I can join in with development soon.22:58
*** apple2_ has joined #maemo22:58
thejapanesegeekthe problem I'm having is that it tries to update the internet repos, and I don't have wifi right now.22:59
czrI guess that maintaining the software would be possible across multiple releases as well, assuming someone would pay for it22:59
Taksome sort of autobuild submission process with an automated package review tool (ala lintian) would be good22:59
czrbut that's not likely to happen with majority of projects at least22:59
thejapanesegeekCan I disable the internet repo update?22:59
*** luck^ has quit IRC22:59
dockanejust bought an n800 and i think it fits the need of a mobile device ( with 16 gb sdcard memory) much better then the n810 for me22:59
*** sciboy has quit IRC23:00
VimSthejapanesegeek: why would you do that?23:00
Takupload a tarball to, it builds debs for all currently supported distributions, runs something lintianlike on the packages, and releases them to the appropriate repos23:01
czrhey, a quick packaging question (deb-buidling), is ${misc:Depends} really useful? it's put into control by dh_make automatically (there's also shlibs:Depends obviously).23:01
thejapanesegeekVimS: because I don't have access to wifi where I am right now23:01
_Monkeyright now is the time when you can find ps2 full versions in the magazine shelves for a couple of bucks23:01
czrthejapanesegeek, what happens if you put the device into 'offline'-mode? (power switch shortly, the select 'offline mode')23:02
dockaneis there any wake-on-lan tool for the n800?23:02
*** jonty has joined #maemo23:03
thejapanesegeekczr: The App manager asks to enter online mode.23:03
czrdockane, the radio is completely off when the device is completely off.23:03
czrthejapanesegeek, ah. figures :-)23:03
czrdockane, so no.23:03
m-vothejapanesegeek, the AM will still try to go online even without any repo configured,,, :-(23:04
thejapanesegeekI also tried assume online in the options, but that also doesn't fix it.23:04
m-vobut it should.23:05
derfThis has a simple solution.23:05
derfUse the command-line.23:05
*** lopz has joined #maemo23:06
VimSderf:  ueber-geek ;)23:07
czrthejapanesegeek, you might also submit a bug-report against the Am if there's not one already23:07
czrno help on the ${misc:Depends} -question?23:07
m-voczr, man debhelper :-)23:08
* Tak not debiangeek enough to know about misc:Depends23:08
thejapanesegeekI used the default version of ITOS that came with the tablet, and I was able to maunally download the debs for the program I wanted, but I had to flash mine and now the apckages are broken.23:08
*** vivijim has quit IRC23:08
czrm-vo, thanks :-)23:08
thejapanesegeekI was hoping a local repo would fix it.23:08
m-vosome dh_foo helpers use it, but you pretty much have to know what they are doing.23:08
czrm-vo, yup, dh_make will add it automatically to the control file that it generates though, hence the question23:09
derfczr: I learned just enough about debhelper to install stuff on my device, and no more.23:09
*** bedboi has joined #maemo23:09
thejapanesegeekdo you know what version of firmware comes with the n800, and where can I get a replacement?23:09
czrthejapanesegeek, the version that comes with it depends on when you bought it. and you can get an update from nokia.com23:10
*** vivijim has joined #maemo23:10
m-voczr, i think it's harmless to leave it there, if you can stand the warning about it being undefined when nobody actually puts stuff into it.23:10
*** pleemans has quit IRC23:10
czrm-vo, trying to update some reference material. so I'll better document what it's meant for (and rip it out)23:10
*** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik23:11
*** jayarama has joined #maemo23:11
thejapanesegeekI used some of the updates linked to from the maemo flash with linux site, but none of them allow installation of all the packages.23:11
m-voYeah, I finally read the training material, it has amazing depth.  Explaining how "make" works, wow.23:11
czrm-vo, which one?23:11
sp3000does it list make's default rules?23:11
sp3000that'd be fun.23:12
czrsp3000, you mean the built in pattern ones?23:12
m-voThe stuff Jarmo wants to put out for maemo 3.223:12
czrm-vo, ah yes. that is exactly what I'm fixing currently23:12
sp3000czr: right23:12
czrturned out all the packaging stuff was very very very broken23:12
czr(I wrote it for 1.0 originally, haven't seen the material since)23:12
czrsp3000, I think it mentions something abouter patterns, but tries to avoids them23:13
czrsince using patterns is .. not that important if you've never even used make before.23:13
*** pdz- has joined #maemo23:13
czri think there's maybe one example in which only the implicit rules are used23:14
czrsince the implicit one to link applications puts LDFLAGS at incorrect position to start with23:14
czr(it should be listed at the very end of gcc invocation, not in the middle, since that breaks linking order with some braindead libs)23:14
czrm-vo, just now realized who you were btw, thanks for all the comments :-)23:15
m-voYeah, took me a while to make the connection as well... :-)23:15
*** pdz has quit IRC23:16
*** apple2__ has joined #maemo23:17
pupnikfunny how this channel and ITT exploded since N810 pictures released23:18
czrpeople have more spare time now? :-)23:18
thejapanesegeekI've been trying to install the GPE suite just from debs, but the n800 rejects some of the packages, even with the latest version from any idea why?23:18
pupniklook at log for error message23:18
*** pdz has joined #maemo23:19
mgedminthe n810 announcement coincides with the ubuntu 7.10 release23:20
mgedminmy blog reader is exploding23:20
*** jonty has quit IRC23:20
VimSpupnik: are you kidding? i've been waiting for this announcement since the first pictures of the case were leaked ;)23:20
VimSthen again i idle here everyday... waiting for better times for my 770... ;)23:21
pupnikHeh ok.  I just note that the channel has been a lot more active than in the preceeding weeks.23:22
VimSjepp noticed that to... although i'm just idling here ;P23:22
*** korpios has quit IRC23:22
*** pdz- has quit IRC23:22
*** thejapanesegeek has quit IRC23:23
*** RobAtWork has quit IRC23:24
*** dneary has quit IRC23:24
*** Lariso has quit IRC23:24
*** korpios has joined #maemo23:25
*** egsavage has quit IRC23:26
*** revsbech has joined #maemo23:26
*** egsavage has joined #maemo23:27
*** mgedmin has quit IRC23:27
* Tak just got 770 hacking time back a few weeks ago23:28
pupnik  This post was most excellent.  I award two internets.23:28
pupnikty disq :)23:28
pupnik\o/ Tak :)23:28
Takheh - /limited/ 770 hacking time23:29
Takhence the recent fceu and xmaeme releases23:29
disqi have an idea for synergyc23:29
disqerm, quicksynergy is better i think23:29
*** apple2_ has quit IRC23:30
disqrun the daemon on the foreground with debug output, filter debug messages, and run shell scripts (to set the mouse cursor) when the cursor enters/exits the screen23:30
*** pdz- has joined #maemo23:31
*** pdz has quit IRC23:34
pupnikInteresting that omap2 with 400mhz ARM constrains DSP to 133 mhz, while 330mhz allows 220 mhz DSP23:34
Takpower consumption issue/23:35
*** Pinguozzz has joined #maemo23:35
pupnikassuming yes - this is implied by page 15 of the power-management presentation23:36
*** lmoura has quit IRC23:38
*** RobAtWork has joined #maemo23:39
*** playya has quit IRC23:39
pupnikWoohoo - I just sold another developer on N800 :)23:40
*** red-zack has joined #maemo23:41
*** playya has joined #maemo23:41
*** pdz has joined #maemo23:41
*** red-zack has quit IRC23:42
*** red-zack has joined #maemo23:42
*** truls has joined #maemo23:44
*** red-zack has quit IRC23:46
*** red-zack has joined #maemo23:46
trulsjust got the 1.0.8 scratchbox (to install the chinook sdk), but also wanted to install the bora sdk inside23:46
trulsi had to change the glibc-prefix expected by the bora-installer from cs2005q3.2-glibc to cs2005q3.2-glibc2.523:47
*** bedboi has left #maemo23:48
Takpupnik: oh yeah, one of my cow orkers just ordered one too23:48
trulsbut when i try to compile a hello world in the newly installed 3.2 target (arm or x86) i get a few undefined references (undefined reference to `errno@GLIBC_PRIVATE' etc)23:49
trulsi guess it might be stupid to install the maemo 3.2 into the scratchbox installed by the maemo 4.0 installer, but....23:51
*** ian_brasil has quit IRC23:52
*** jonty has joined #maemo23:52
trulsanyone encounter the same problem?23:52
*** pdz- has quit IRC23:52
*** renatofilho has quit IRC23:52
kaltsitruls mmm you can't use the glibc2.5 toolchain with bora23:52
trulsthanks for clearing that up though23:54
*** konttori has quit IRC23:54
kaltsimaybe you can't use the 3.2 installer to set up bora target anymore23:55
kaltsibut it is possible to have bora and chinook targets under the same scratchbox23:55
trulsso i'd have to install the scratchbox from the bora installer then...23:55
trulsand then add chinook23:55
trulsi'd guess...23:55
kaltsiI'm not entirely sure if the installers can be called in sequence like hat23:56
trulsso one scratchbox = one maemo version?23:56
disqi'm doing it right now. upgraded my existing gregale+bora sbox to 1.0.8 (debian ftw) now downloading the rootstraps23:56
kaltsidisq and can you still use the bora target to build stuff?23:57
*** Herr_Rob has joined #maemo23:57
disqit's still downloading :)23:57
*** RobAtWork has quit IRC23:57
*** Herr_Rob is now known as RobAtWork23:57
disqbut i'm hoping it will. can't see a reason not to.23:57
kaltsiI may be mistaken but I think both create targets called SDK_ARM and SDK_X86 or so23:57
*** beavis has quit IRC23:57
trulsatleast chinook do23:58
disqno the names are different for chinook beta23:58
trulssorry, bora does :)23:58
disqaccording to the doc23:58
kaltsiok cool then it should be possible23:58
jumpulaand pre-3.2 installed sdk targets are incompatible with debian devkit 1.0.8 or newer23:58
*** mazzen has joined #maemo23:58
trulsbut which part of the 1.0.8 is incompatible with 3.2?23:59
_Monkeyglibc is the c main library23:59
disq_Monkey: thanks.23:59
_Monkeydisq: no problem23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!