IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-10-16

hillct	Am I correct in thinking the newest Nokia image supports SDHC up to 8GB per card or 8GB total in the two card slots?	00:01
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milhouse	8GB+ per card	00:05
milhouse	Nokia only guarantee 8GB but the firmware should support larger capacities	00:05
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Tak	fceu -bora4 and xmaeme 0.10 released, and uploaded to garage extras	00:18
hillct	milhouse: thanks. One other question. what's the maximum card class (indicating bus speed I guess) the slots can handle?	00:19
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eijk	Hi!	00:31
eijk	I just realised that the search on maemo.org doesn't search the wiki. Is this intentional?	00:31
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zerojay	timeless: What's your idea of abuse?	00:38
* sp3000 only saw an attack on invalid urls		00:39
* sp3000 crosses out an item in a virtual todo list		00:40
zerojay	Anyone happen to know if there is actually someone working on the multimedia bugs? There's a ton of old simple bugs that haven't been touched or seemingly looked at in ages.	00:40
Tak	yeah, also WEP+PEAP	00:43
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hillct	Has anyone tested both class 2 and class 6 SDHC cards in an N800? Are there significant performance differences? or are the benefits limited by the N800 card bus?	00:47
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shapr	hillct: I'd like to know if you find out.	01:01
hillct	shapr: been reading. Lots of discussion. No answers	01:03
shapr	ah	01:03
hillct	the but speed supports at least class 4	01:03
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hillct	not sure about class 6	01:03
shapr	That's good to know.	01:03
hillct	shapr: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8426.html	01:05
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hillct	best deal I can find is this http://www.adorama.com/KGSD68GB.html but nobody is tyalking about Kingston SD cards so I don't know if they're any good	01:08
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TPC	why do you need such high speed on your sd card anyway?	01:15
shapr	Why not?	01:20
shapr	I try to tune everything to be as fast as it can be.	01:20
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hillct	TPC: when watching your porn, you don't want to see lots of frame freezes and jerkiness do you?	01:37
hillct	shapr: I take it that rebate means release of a new higher capacity/faster product is imenant, but that's always the case I suppose	01:38
Deformative	Has anyone here installed the assembler on their nokia?	01:39
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Robdgreat	at the risk of sounding unbearably ignorant, which assembler?	01:49
Robdgreat	i.e. could you point me to it	01:49
zerojay	I assume he's talking about asm.	01:49
Deformative	rodarvus: armasm?	01:51
Deformative	Any assembler.	01:51
Deformative	I don't know if ther eis more than one.	01:51
Deformative	Erm	01:51
Deformative	Robdgreat: rather.	01:51
Deformative	Sorry rodarvus	01:51
Robdgreat	I see	01:52
Robdgreat	checking it out	01:52
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TPC	hillct, movie playback is perfectly fine on the cheapest SD cards around	01:52
TPC	just like it was with the pdas that existed 4 years ago	01:53
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TPC	you don't need any new techology for smooth video playback (altought the N800 screen is very nice for it)	01:53
Deformative	Anyone know why my mmc card stalls out whenever I try to copy too much stuff to it?	01:53
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pupnik	Deformative: it resumes though after a while	02:04
Deformative	Mine doesn't.	02:05
Deformative	It stalls out.	02:05
Deformative	And an error comes up.	02:05
Deformative	Maybe I should try with cp instead of konqueror copy.	02:05
pupnik	how are you sharing	02:06
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Deformative	Interesting.	02:32
Deformative	It will no longer connect to the pc.	02:32
Deformative	Lame and interesting at the same time.	02:32
pupnik	i'll assume you're using samba then	02:33
Deformative	Uh.	02:33
Deformative	Nope.	02:33
Deformative	Just a usb cable.	02:33
pupnik	ok	02:34
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Deformative	Completely does not communicate with the device	02:36
Deformative	Hmm.	02:36
Deformative	No little usb symbol at the top of the screen.	02:36
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zerojay	That usually happens when the cards are being used.	02:38
zerojay	eg. Playing music, etc..	02:38
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Deformative	zerojay: It isn't.	02:40
Deformative	Perhaps I need to mess with the flasher.	02:40
Deformative	What options should be enabled/disabled?	02:40
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GeneralAntilles	Canola/Media player could be indexing the cards.	02:42
GeneralAntilles	Or you could have a bum jack/cable	02:42
GeneralAntilles	Does the computer show it in the USB device tree?	02:42
Deformative	No.	02:42
pupnik	there could be a bad reconnection, and kernel remounting as /dev/sdb1	02:42
Deformative	Nope.	02:43
Deformative	The device doesn't even notice when the usb cable is plugged in.	02:43
Deformative	I think it is something weird witht he flasher.	02:43
pupnik	ah	02:43
Deformative	What is rd mode?	02:44
_Monkey	i heard rd mode was not needed	02:44
Deformative	WOW	02:45
Deformative	Lame	02:45
pupnik	good monkey, botsnak	02:45
Deformative	The device will not boot now.	02:45
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Deformative	Oh, there it goes.	02:45
Deformative	I still would like to know what rd mode is.	02:45
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Jiten_	I'd guess the rd mode is something that is used when developing the device.	02:46
Deformative	Ugh, I really wish this would recognize the device.	02:47
Deformative	._.	02:47
Deformative	Oh, I think I am in usb host mode.	02:48
Deformative	Aha.	02:48
Deformative	Aha, usb host mode was the problem.	02:51
Deformative	So, it still seems to be stalling.	02:56
Deformative	With cp	02:56
Deformative	But not timing out.	02:56
Deformative	I wonder if it will work now.	02:56
zerojay	Gotta be something on your end.	02:56
Deformative	Heh, it resumes after like, 2 minues of stalling.	02:58
Deformative	Cool.	02:58
Deformative	pupnik: do you know what causes this?	02:58
Deformative	Oh damnit.	02:58
Deformative	It didn't resume this time.	02:58
Deformative	Cp failed.	02:58
Deformative	Damnit!	02:58
Deformative	I think I have a defective mmc card or something.	02:58
pupnik	i suspect different problems	02:58
pupnik	i see regular pauses every 30 or so seconds	02:59
zerojay	Wouldn't be surprised if it was something to do with your USB host patch.	02:59
Deformative	Maybe it is a problem with hal/dbus ?	02:59
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zerojay	Maybe you corrupted your card.	03:00
Deformative	I think I got a faulty card to begin with.	03:00
zerojay	Most people don't realize but yanking out the USB cable right after a copy to the card is shown on your OS to be finished can damage it.	03:00
Deformative	This thing has been working like shit since I got it.	03:00
zerojay	Because the copy isn't complete, regardless of what your OS says.	03:00
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Deformative	I think pretty soon I will just dump all my files on an ftp.	03:01
Deformative	Then download them.	03:01
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zerojay	What did you tinker with aside from the usb host mode stuff?	03:02
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Deformative	That's it.	03:04
Deformative	Oh, and I formated my mmc to fat32 somehow.	03:04
Deformative	Do not remember how I did it.	03:05
Deformative	Because fat16 was going unbarably slow, not sure why.	03:05
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pupnik	bzzt	03:17
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unique311	minimo the only browser that offers tab browsing?	04:01
GeneralAntilles	So far.	04:02
GeneralAntilles	We can only hope for that wonderful feature in one of the future MicroB updates.	04:02
zerojay	You already have that.	04:02
GeneralAntilles	Especially with switching windows being as much of a pain as it is.	04:03
GeneralAntilles	Do I now?	04:03
alp	GeneralAntilles: MicroB is just a browser engine, it can't add tabs to the UI shell	04:03
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GeneralAntilles	Semantics, but ok. ;)	04:03
unique311	so an update to the browser	04:03
unique311	opera	04:03
unique311	minimo works pretty descent.	04:04
nn_	I am trying to install bash, and doing it with apt-get will replace busybox. Does that seem like a good idea? (on N800)	04:04
\|R	is the TUN/TAP interface active in the latest 2007 firmware?	04:04
zerojay	Before you install microb, you can set stuff like tabbed browsing for opera.	04:04
\|R	nn_ : i don't think so	04:04
unique311	microb crashed on me 3 times today..so not happy with it.	04:04
zerojay	But, as predicted, it's horrible and a huge waste of space.	04:04
nn_	\|R: any idea how to get bash otherwise then?	04:04
unique311	instructions on how to tab browse with the opera browser?	04:05
unique311	preference?	04:05
disq	nope. minimo has tabbed browsing	04:05
\|R	nn_ : not sure sure of the best course of action but worst case you can dpkg -X the package and get the binary and place it somewhere...	04:05
zerojay	I remember that you have to reflash and not install microb.. then you get an extra set of options past Set Engine.	04:05
zerojay	And in there, you see "Webcore" as a third engine option but greyed out.	04:06
zerojay	But don't even bother if you want tabbed browsing.	04:06
zerojay	The tabs take up WAY too much space.	04:06
unique311	ok	04:06
GeneralAntilles	Minimo's ui is buggy as all get out.	04:07
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GeneralAntilles	Nothing behaves the way it should	04:07
zerojay	There was also some other cool options.. such as enabling/disabling javascript in general or just for Google specific sites.	04:07
tom_	Hey.	04:07
tom_	What's videocenter, and does it work on Hacker 770?	04:07
GeneralAntilles	and I'd always end up in a context where I'd have to quit and restart to get it to work again.	04:07
zerojay	Google is a great tool.	04:07
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tom_	Well, I know what it is, but does it work on Hacker Edition?	04:08
disq	minimo works fine with my bank, and works better with iphone.facebook.com atm. i don't use it for anything else, i use opera or microb	04:08
unique311	well considering microb crashed on me for i don't know what reason..i'll be using opera and minimo.	04:09
disq	microb seems to stress the cpu out a lot during rendering though. i don't like unresponsiveness	04:09
unique311	tried a bunch of iphone sites last night with minimo.	04:09
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tom_	Oh, I'm running Hacker 2007... what's best? Opera, Minimo, or MicroB? I've never seen MicroB before.	04:22
zerojay	Try them and decide for yourself.	04:23
zerojay	Some like Opera's speed. Others like MicroB's javascript/css (being the engine for Firefox 3.0).	04:23
tom_	What is MicroB like?	04:24
zerojay	It's like whoa.	04:24
tom_	Really?	04:24
tom_	How so?	04:24
zerojay	It's a web browser.	04:24
tom_	Slow, or cool, or both?	04:24
zerojay	It looks and runs more or less like Opera does but supports stuff like javascript better.	04:25
zerojay	Try it.	04:25
tom_	ok	04:25
juh0	it is still beta and damn slow	04:26
tom_	oh :-(	04:26
zerojay	Yeah, it's still beta in two ways. One, microb itself is beta. Two, the rendering engine, Gecko, is a bleeding edge version.	04:27
zerojay	But I don't find it slow.	04:27
tom_	Not that I'm going to try it, but does it do Gmail?	04:27
zerojay	You should try it.	04:27
tom_	ok	04:28
* tom_ is rebooting after a hung installation of wesnoth.		04:28
zerojay	I believe it does, but I'm not sure. I don't use Gmail, but I'm pretty sure it would run it better than Opera would.	04:28
juh0	id like to see webkit based browser	04:28
zerojay	Not going to be that different, really.	04:28
zerojay	Might be as fast as Opera though.	04:28
pupnik	would the tablets be better served with the OS on a SD card from the factory?	04:29
zerojay	Not really.	04:29
pupnik	you're probably right	04:31
pupnik	but there isn't a clean solution for installing big things to mmc/sd right now	04:31
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zerojay	Not many apps bigger than 128MB. :)	04:32
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pupnik	don't think i'm not responding because your point was valid	04:36
nn_	\|R: Thanks, worked like a charm!	04:37
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nn_	I am trying to apt-get install gcc on my N800 and I get this message "Package gcc is not available, but is referred to by another package.". Any idea what it means?	04:39
zerojay	pupnik: Well, it is valid. ;)	04:40
zerojay	Really though... if someone feels the need to install packages on the memory card because the internal flash isn't enough, I really don't want to see that person's menus. ;P	04:41
pupnik	it is not and here are the reasons	04:41
pupnik	1) there is less than 128Mb free	04:41
pupnik	2) users do not install a single program	04:42
\|R	nn_ : cool :)	04:42
zerojay	Huh?	04:42
pupnik	your assersion is that a user has 128MB free on internal flash, and that the user will have no problems with any program <= 128MB	04:43
pupnik	this is false, as shown above	04:43
zerojay	Where?	04:43
pupnik	installing 10 7 MB programs will exceed a typical 770's free space	04:44
zerojay	Yeah, it's not simply 128MB free. What is it right after a reflash then? It's still a good amount of space for just applications.	04:44
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pupnik	hence the claim that 128MB programs are not a problem is ludicrous	04:44
zerojay	There aren't that many large apps though. Most are pretty small... maybe 1MB or so.	04:45
pupnik	i know this	04:45
zerojay	I'm not saying that it should be disallowed.	04:46
pupnik	it'most of the core apps do fit nicely into free flash	04:46
zerojay	But most average users won't usually end up filling the flash with apps alone.. for those power users that do, they've got the option to install to SD card.	04:46
pupnik	that's correct	04:47
pupnik	i'm just struggling right now with the best way to deal with big programs	04:48
tom_	Is it safe to do apt-get upgrade on Hacker 2007, or will that pull in versions that are too new?	04:48
pupnik	basically it means adding logic for them to search mmc for their data, and then fail gracefully if it's not found	04:49
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zerojay	pupnik: They can just add /media/mmc1/ to PATH and be done with it.	04:53
zerojay	Well, /media/mmc1/bin...	04:53
pupnik	or anywhere on mmc1 or mmc2	04:54
pupnik	then you also have to write a program to download the data	04:54
zerojay	Download what data?	04:54
pupnik	because you can't install a 30 MB .deb file on a tablet with 30 MB free space	04:54
pupnik	i want to make my game ports easy to install	04:55
pupnik	can't do that with .debs	04:55
GeneralAntilles	You should have them give you their ssh logins.	04:58
GeneralAntilles	That'll be very easy. ;)	04:58
tom_	How do I run MicroB? It's not in the menu...	05:01
GeneralAntilles	It's an engine option	05:02
GeneralAntilles	it just runs under the regular browser	05:02
GeneralAntilles	Did the homepage change to one with a yellow-gray background?	05:02
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tom_	GeneralAntilles: How do I pick it?	05:08
tom_	Great, now "Web" crashes every time I run it...	05:09
tom_	Ah, the TestGtkEmbed screwed it up. Now it only crashes when I pick MicroB...	05:10
tom_	Does this need some strange library or something?	05:11
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tom_	Great, I uninstalled all of it and it still crashes.	05:13
GeneralAntilles	Did you restart?	05:14
tom_	no	05:14
tom_	Do I need to restart after installing?	05:14
tom_	?	05:15
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\|R	Anyone know if the TUN/TAP interface active in the latest 2007 firmware?	05:39
\|R	(would be veryyy useful for the new ssh -w (tunnel) feature)	05:39
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pupnik	i don't know	05:46
pupnik	would someone smart please find a way to tap-in text to fullscreen sdl apps with a virtual keyboard like xkbd? http://pupnik.de/xkbd_m_bottom.gif	05:47
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tom_	I'm getting a strange error from "apt-get update". It's saying it can't verify the GPG signature of maemo-hackers.org, khertan.net, or catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com because the signatures could not be verified (NO_PUBKEY), "Unknown error executing gpgv", and "The following signatures were invalid".	05:51
tom_	And nothing in Application manager works.	05:51
tom_	It all says "Operation failed".	05:51
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tom_	What should I do?	05:53
tom_	ARGH! This is totally broken, and it's giving me NO information on how to fix it!	05:55
tom_	I can't even see the goddamn app catalog to turn off the extra repos I installed!	05:55
* tom_ remembers why Hacker 2007 sucks again.		05:57
tom_	Is anyone here?	05:58
GeneralAntilles	What's the log say?	05:58
GeneralAntilles	For app manager?	05:58
GeneralAntilles	Clearing the cache worked for me	05:58
GeneralAntilles	though I don't recall how I did that	05:58
tom_	Where? What cache?	05:58
tom_	Where is the log?	05:58
GeneralAntilles	The apt cache	05:58
tom_	apt-get update gives me three different errors.	05:59
GeneralAntilles	menu -> log	05:59
tom_	All about GPG verification.	05:59
GeneralAntilles	Ignore gpg	05:59
GeneralAntilles	Those don't matter.	05:59
tom_	The log says:	05:59
tom_	"osso-application-install 4.46, UI version 2"	05:59
tom_	then "apt-worker exited."	05:59
tom_	And if I try something else: "write: Bad file descriptor"	06:00
pupnik	there is only one solution	06:01
pupnik	BOMB IRAN	06:01
pupnik	pardon me	06:01
tom_	anyone?	06:02
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, clear the cache.	06:02
GeneralAntilles	look up apt cache on google	06:02
tom_	not helping	06:04
tom_	oh wait	06:04
tom_	it might	06:04
tom_	okay working now	06:04
tom_	GeneralAntilles: Thanks.	06:04
tom_	GeneralAntilles: (Really. This was totally pissing me off.)	06:05
tom_	Oh wait.	06:05
tom_	Now I can't refresh the app list.	06:05
unique311	ok	06:06
unique311	so i'm going to ask again...becuase last time i couldn't figure out how to modify mime types..	06:06
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unique311	i want to make mplayer open default for video links i click on the web browser	06:07
tom_	Ah, I needed to recreate /var/cache/apt/archives/partial.	06:07
unique311	anyone know how i can go about making this happen.	06:07
unique311	someone told me last time to modify mime types.	06:07
tom_	Yay, it's working!	06:08
tom_	unique311: gconf-editor?	06:08
unique311	know which file i need to modify?	06:09
tom_	unique311: No, but browse around. There's a section on mime types.	06:09
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ttuttle	Hey, microb does gmail!	06:19
unique311	i crashed on gmail with microb	06:20
ttuttle	lol	06:20
GeneralAntilles	Microb hardly crashes on me at all.	06:20
GeneralAntilles	Weird.	06:20
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doublec	i use it on gmail fine	06:22
unique311	i sent mail out...left it on the desk, mail went out...and like 1 minute later crashed	06:23
unique311	tom, not finding the mime config in gconf editor..	06:24
ttuttle	unique311: hmm	06:24
kulve	lardman\|gone: I think that was the only option I changed in the kernel..	06:25
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lopz	bye	07:27
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sparr	timeless: bugzilla url/comment shenanigans are getting annoying. i like to contribute, but you guys generating all this bugzilla spam for purely administrative stuff is sorta annoying	07:43
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sciboy	No N800 for me this week. =(	08:23
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gomiam	Hello :-P	09:11
gomiam	I've been looking fo a way to use Reply-To: on the N800 mail client and I can't find it	09:13
gomiam	does anyone have an idea of where to find it?	09:13
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:48
DRoBeR	Good morning, Jaffa .	10:48
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cosmo	hm, is there a way to set ./configure options with dpkg-buildpackage?	11:20
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sujan	Hi	11:24
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sujan	can anyone help me? how to include all the dependency of a debian package so that i can install the package on the device without installing any other dependent package manually?	11:34
Jaffa	sujan: upload your deb to a repository	11:36
sujan	but the device has no internet connectivity now...Thats the problem	11:38
Jaffa	You could do something evil like include the other debs' files within your own deb, but that would seriously mess with Debian's packaging ethos and inveitably cause more trouble than it's worth.	11:39
sujan	how can i include other debs?	11:41
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sujan	this is temporary...until the device get internet connectivity....	11:43
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Jaffa	You'd have to unpack the other debs, move their files in to your unpacked deb and then rebuild yours. Surely easiest to just do `dpkg -i *.deb' and install all the requisite debs straight off?	11:44
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sujan	ya, dpkg -i *.deb is easier	11:48
sujan	but the requirement is a package without any dependency:(	11:49
sujan	Thanks, jaffa.....Let me try by unpacking all the debs	11:49
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sujan	Jaffa: all the debs contain control.tar.gz and data.tar.gz.... so where shall i put them in my package	11:59
sujan	should i copy the files inside /usr/lib only?	12:09
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cosmo	sujan: make a local file repository with your package + dependencies and use it	12:23
inz	dpkg-scanpackages should help creating the repo	12:25
inz	+when	12:25
timeless	inz: ping	12:29
timeless	can you check something for me?	12:29
inz	timeless, sure	12:29
sujan	cosmo: Thanks cosmo	12:32
sujan	inz: thanks	12:32
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* timeless tries to remember who the ui lead is		13:29
timeless	or rather which account roope actually uses	13:30
disq	timeless did you have time to see why iphone.fb.com works better in minimo? they use useragent-specific code (in an iphone version? why?) or it's just relaed to the engine?	13:30
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timeless	sorry	13:34
timeless	got distraced	13:34
timeless	what user agents did you have?	13:34
* timeless could try to find the #maemo logs for the right day, but is currently lazy		13:34
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timeless	hrm: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=821	13:36
timeless	is that "fixed" per comment 1?	13:36
disq	let me find the log	13:41
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Test_	good morning(~ugt)	13:43
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disq	timeless: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv6l; rv:1.8.1.5pre) Gecko/20070705 Minimo/0.020	13:52
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timeless	so minimo is a 1.8 branch, and microb is a 1.9 thing?	13:57
timeless	and you're saying minimo works better?	13:57
timeless	that's functionally equivalent to comparing ff2 w/ ff3	13:57
timeless	(and concluding ff2 is better)	13:57
timeless	you can use:	13:58
timeless	general.useragent.override	13:58
timeless	in about:config (on one or both apps) to get sympathy points	13:58
timeless	i'd suggest trying w/ say microb lying as minimo first	13:58
timeless	and then trying minimo lying as microb	13:58
* timeless needs someone to file 14 bugs		13:59
sciboy	Yay, going to be waiting quite a while for my N800.	13:59
timeless	btw, if someone could test: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=936	13:59
timeless	that'd be nice	13:59
sciboy	Still, already got a few little python apps in mind.	13:59
GeneralAntilles	What is it with news sites that make you register?	14:00
timeless	wow, something's wrong w/ me, i just voted for a bug	14:00
timeless	generalantilles: use bugmenot?	14:01
GeneralAntilles	I am	14:01
GeneralAntilles	But it's still a pain	14:01
GeneralAntilles	The stupid crap that you call "news" isn't worth the time and effort it takes me to get to it. >_>	14:02
* timeless shrugs		14:02
* timeless needs to wait for 18 bugs		14:02
timeless	rr 12 bugs	14:02
* sciboy is watching siggraph lectures.		14:02
* sciboy snores.		14:02
sciboy	Credit to them, it's awesome but 4 hours of powerpoint slides is in fact boring.	14:03
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timeless	disq: any reason i shouldn't resolve https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1192#c6 as WFM?	14:05
disq	WFM too.	14:12
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timeless	please resolve bugs :)	14:23
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lardman	afternoon all	14:27
GeneralAntilles	'morning. ;)	14:28
lardman	well yeah I suppose it is :)	14:28
wazd	evening))	14:32
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Test_	hi lardman	14:40
_Monkey	hi lardman are you here!!	14:40
timeless	_monkey forget hi lardman	14:40
_Monkey	timeless: I forgot hi lardman	14:40
timeless	_monkey hi lardman is <reply>	14:40
_Monkey	OK, timeless.	14:40
lardman	hi Test_	14:42
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gomiam	erm... is there a way to set a Reply-To: on the vanilla N800 mail client?	14:46
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timeless	gomiam: i'm not sure many people use it :(	14:48
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gomiam	yup, I guess so. But it works good enough for my meager needs, and I can't find anything on Google	14:49
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b0unc3	hello	15:42
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chris_work	hello test ...	15:53
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playya2	chris_work: servus	15:56
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playya2	is it possible to have race condition withinn dbus_message_get_args?	15:56
playya2	because i sen a message with 4 strings and the receiver gets a mixed up set	15:57
playya2	i only recognized it because of different languages	15:57
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Tak	there's your problem - dbus only speaks portuguese	16:10
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playya2	hehe	16:15
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Ar-ras	hi	16:24
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Ar-ras	could somebody help me with cloning Os on MemoryCard?	16:25
Ar-ras	I started inifs_flash	16:25
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Ar-ras	but it only asks yes/no	16:25
Ar-ras	and stops	16:25
Ar-ras	or	16:25
Ar-ras	better	16:25
k-way	perhaps, are you using the wiki as ref?	16:26
*** k-way is now known as keesj		16:26
Ar-ras	i used http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#initfs	16:26
Ar-ras	Extract tgz archive on your tablet (tar zxvf initfs_flasher.tgz), execute initfs_flash (cd initfs_flasher ; ./initfs_flash) in shell (osso-xterm or via ssh) and follow instructions. << instructions?	16:26
lopz	hola	16:27
_Monkey	que tal, lopz	16:27
Ar-ras	ok	16:28
lopz	hola	16:28
lopz	hi	16:28
Ar-ras	it seem to work now	16:28
kriebel	Ar-ras, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/	16:29
kriebel	if that is in fact what you want to do	16:30
Ar-ras	COOL	16:31
Ar-ras	booting from memory card :D	16:32
sciboy	So SD cards are officially safe in the latest firmware?	16:33
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	16:33
Ar-ras	they should make skype with webcam compatible...	16:34
Ar-ras	webcam is so useless now	16:34
keesj	skype @windows does webcams. but I would be happy with any program that would allow me to talk/video chat with my parents in france	16:37
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gomiam	Yet another question (I guess asking about Reply-to on N800 mail client is hopeless). Does anybody have an idea about a maemo repository for postgresql-common? I wanted to set some php on nginx, but I need a RDBMS.	16:42
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GeneralAntilles	sqlite3 work?	16:44
MoRpHeUz	Ar-ras: gizmo support video calls...	16:46
keesj	really?	16:46
MoRpHeUz	keesj: it looks like..let me get the link for you..	16:46
GeneralAntilles	It's incredibly beta	16:46
GeneralAntilles	didn't work for me.	16:46
MoRpHeUz	keesj: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9425	16:47
MoRpHeUz	GeneralAntilles: I've never tried...	16:47
MoRpHeUz	just saw the post	16:47
gomiam	GeneralAntilles: might work, but I would like to test Postgresql first	16:47
keesj	I need something my parent can instal and run.	16:47
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GeneralAntilles	Better off buying them an N800 and doing google-talk video calls.	16:48
keesj	I have tried real hard with "nokia video internet call" but also in the past with netmeeting	16:48
sciboy	What's the frame rate on the camera anyhow?	16:49
gomiam	sciboy: 15?	16:49
flip^	oh yay, i broke my n800 \o/	16:49
sciboy	I'll probably do the video conferencing thing but focus it on my sketchpad. =P	16:49
gomiam	Not much better, I think	16:49
sciboy	AWESOME FLIP^!	16:50
sciboy	What now?	16:50
gomiam	flip^: how so?	16:50
flip^	um, now i work out how to restore gtk without being able to get past about 90% of the blue "booting up" bar	16:50
Ar-ras	and where can you download the beta of gizmo?	16:50
keesj	actualy , andy linux/window video calling program would make me happy	16:50
flip^	i think it must've told it to upgrade gtk, which failed, and now its lacking something important	16:50
gomiam	flip^: oh, the osso update. Have fun reflashing	16:50
flip^	gomiam: fortunately, i'm booting off mmc and can just restore from the flash that way ;)	16:51
flip^	but it's hassle reinstalling some stuff	16:51
flip^	course, it's battery removing time to get it to power down	16:51
GeneralAntilles	Stop abusing your poor N800.	16:51
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flip^	GeneralAntilles: i bought it for abuse!	16:52
sciboy	Yeah, linux is great that way. =D	16:52
gomiam	Oops, clicked the wrong cross	16:52
keesj	I flashed mamona on it yesterday. now that's pure abuse!	16:53
Ar-ras	damn	16:54
Ar-ras	they deleted their beta of gizmo	16:54
Ar-ras	does somebody has a copy of it?	16:55
sciboy	Oh how I wish we had hardware acceleration for opengl. =(	16:55
Ar-ras	gizmo-project_4.0.0.82_N800_armel.deb	16:55
gomiam	Ar-ras: what? They dropped gizmo for N800?	16:56
GeneralAntilles	No	16:56
GeneralAntilles	They dropped the video alpha	16:56
gomiam	Oh	16:57
Ar-ras	:-/	16:58
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Ar-ras	so is there anybody with the alpha/beta?	16:59
gomiam	Did they say anything about bringing it back?	16:59
* sciboy ponders 3d software rendering.		16:59
keesj	sciboy: waht would you do with opengl?	17:00
keesj	what	17:00
* gomiam pounces 3d software rendering.		17:00
sciboy	keesj, Super-low-poly games.	17:00
keesj	like ?	17:01
sciboy	Like jesus-on-a-stick	17:01
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sciboy	I'll probably stick to 2d for sheer simplicity, but if you got the blender game engine going I could crank out stuff pretty quickly.	17:02
keesj	I had great fun porting xmoto	17:03
Ar-ras	what is xmoto?	17:04
sciboy	Mainly because of the bullet physics engine and blender interface, also less scalability issues.	17:04
sciboy	You were actually able to port it?	17:04
keesj	I was very busy yes http://xmoto.tuxfamily.org/	17:05
keesj	http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-5434097291911279996&q=xmoto	17:06
sciboy	Did you use mesa software rendering?	17:06
keesj	no, poly rendering (and sdl_gfx)	17:07
keesj	I lost interrest because nobody was really fund about playing the game	17:08
Mikho	How can I make it so that /etc/modules is parsed during boot	17:08
Mikho	I can run 'modprobe ftdi_sio' and it works	17:09
Mikho	but I'd like the module to be loaded automatically	17:09
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sciboy	keesj, I'm more interested in developing small games than anything.	17:12
sciboy	http://russose.free.fr/BlenderPocket/	17:13
keesj	there is also a bzr kind of game	17:13
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sciboy	keesj, http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blenderonthenokia770bp8.png	17:14
keesj	I like blender	17:14
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sciboy	keesj, Anyway current plan is to make simple stuff in HTML and/or Python	17:16
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sciboy	I'm use to working in graphical environments so you won't find me blitting. =)	17:17
keesj	there are many challenges i guess in developing software for the tablet (input being one of them)	17:18
sciboy	Which is actually why I am thinking of doing it through the web browser, most of the input is already there and cursor interaction is relatively simple to accomplish via. javascript.	17:19
keesj	and run the files from a small web server on the device?	17:19
sciboy	Not entirely necessary, but I was thinking a python script to do so and also serve sounds via. pygame	17:20
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lardman	kulve: ping	17:21
sciboy	It's primary purpose would be to handle the players progress, variables, saves etc.	17:21
sciboy	keesj, The most basic it gets is a simple comic style adventure, with hotspots ala. choose your own path, gif animations to spice things up but otherwise just html and css no javascript or any real scripting.	17:25
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sciboy	I've done that before as a kid, was quite fun at the time.	17:25
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latzko	hi	17:25
keesj	I am not creative enough to create real games	17:26
lardman	kulve: I did a kernel compile, and manually enabled one entry in .config - CONFIG_OMAP_DSP_MBCMD_VERBOSE=y	17:26
keesj	I enjoy solving problems	17:26
dcarter	hey all, does anyone here have the new quetoo by zerion on their tablet?	17:26
lardman	kulve: was this the one you were talking about? In any case I don;t see dbg() messages in dmesg, so I presume I've gone wrong somewhere	17:26
sciboy	Same here, but I enjoy animating, drawing, painting etc. the games just allow me to combine the problem solving with the art.	17:27
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sciboy	keesj, I was into programming before I burnt out and jumped ship to animating.	17:29
latzko	I have a strange applet bug. I was able to fix the bug that hang the applet on layout mode when other applets was selected (state_data had to be NULL) BUT it still hang if I select Internet Radio aplet AFTER I placed my applet. It works reversed. Have you got any tips? osso1.0	17:29
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sciboy	keesj, It's kinda why I still hang around spots like this and use linux dispite the plentiful software available on other platforms. ;P	17:31
keesj	we need more guys like you then	17:32
dcarter	if anyone has quetoo on their tablet, let me know alright. i need someone to test if my server is running fine.	17:33
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sciboy	It's going to be atleast another week before I can get into it though. =/	17:34
sciboy	Still no news on my N800 order.	17:34
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Ar-ras	http://forum.gizmoproject.com/viewtopic.php?t=7098	17:39
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Ar-ras	heyhey	17:51
_Monkey	hey, Ar-ras	17:51
Ar-ras	i found it	17:51
Ar-ras	http://www.divshare.com/download/2129913-97c	17:51
Ar-ras	gizmo-project_4.0.0.82_N800_armel_2_.deb ;)	17:51
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zoran	any news about cron porting to n800?	18:04
sciboy	No cron already?	18:05
zoran	dunno	18:05
zoran	I have 770	18:05
zoran	some bin fiel was in option	18:05
zoran	*file	18:05
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dcarter	anyone with quetoo here?	18:08
zoran	definitely no crom/anacron on 770-3.2006.49-2	18:08
GeneralAntilles	"cron doesn't really make sense for the device", is what I've always heard.	18:08
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zoran	yep, right	18:09
zoran	buy 770 is not always on	18:09
zoran	*but	18:09
zoran	n800 _is_, as I've heard	18:09
florian	zoran: both are	18:10
zoran	not 770, since I shut it down	18:10
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dpb_	zoran: well neither is n800 if you shut it down..	18:14
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zoran	:-)	18:14
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\|R	any suggestions on what to change to have exec rights on the SD cards ? :) (fstab seems unrelated, not too sure how to deal with udev)	18:17
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zoran	\|R, what file system?	18:18
\|R	zoran : the vfat of the SD cards (mmc1 and mmc2)	18:19
\|R	if i want to use the SD cards to stock extra programs, i need to be able to execute them :/	18:19
zoran	ah, had an issue few days ago!	18:19
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zoran	maybe could help to say what I did to haev on 770:	18:19
\|R	yep :)	18:20
zoran	1. partition - vfat	18:20
zoran	2. part - swap	18:20
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zoran	3rd one - ext2	18:20
zoran	the third is the biggest one	18:20
\|R	you don't have problems with ext2 umounting incorrectly?	18:21
zoran	not at all	18:21
zoran	I concidered ext3...	18:21
\|R	and is ext2 overlayed on some of the SD magic to make sure it doesn't burn the card to quickly? :)	18:21
\|R	but ext3 will write to your card every 5 sec... :/	18:21
zoran	but is was said exactly that for ext3	18:21
zoran	yes, correct	18:21
zoran	so chose no 2	18:22
\|R	and then you join point /usr/local to the card? :)	18:22
zoran	no == number	18:22
zoran	hm, I was a little picky :)	18:22
\|R	it's going to be a pain to have to extract everything by hand though :/	18:22
sciboy	Is having swap on an SD card advisable? =\|	18:22
zoran	I think so	18:22
\|R	i wish i could continue using apt-get without having to boot from SD and such hacks	18:22
zoran	I made soft links from card to home place	18:23
\|R	i'd skip the swap partition in the n800 case as it is creating a .swap file on the fat already	18:23
sciboy	But doesn't it have a limited lifespan? Heavy swapping would eat away at it.	18:23
zoran	wouldn't last forever	18:24
zoran	for opera on 770 it is necessary to turn pictures off to not use swap	18:24
zoran	links works great, no swap	18:24
\|R	if you write to the card every minute and it can stand 100k write (suposing even writing) you'll get 5+ years	18:25
\|R	actually more like ~4.5	18:25
zoran	you think ext2 writes every minute?	18:25
\|R	but whatever :)	18:25
\|R	no	18:25
zoran	I put 0 0 in fstab	18:25
\|R	that doesn't change anything :)	18:26
zoran	hm	18:26
zoran	I sleep happily	18:26
\|R	it's if it has to be dumped and the order in which it gets fsck-ed in case of recovery	18:26
zoran	yes	18:26
zoran	and at start up	18:27
\|R	won't affect write i guess :)	18:27
zoran	not sure, probably no	18:27
zoran	mmc card is not so expensive	18:27
sxpert-work	sd & friends are dirt cheap nowadays	18:27
zoran	kingston in my case	18:28
* \|R still wonders if he could just flip the noexec to exec before formating		18:28
zoran	el chipo	18:28
zoran	on vfat?	18:28
\|R	yep	18:28
zoran	I read mount (8) million times this days	18:29
\|R	hehe	18:29
zoran	and mount_msdosfs	18:29
\|R	mount -n -o remount,exec /media/mmc2 doesn't work	18:29
zoran	for -l and -o	18:29
\|R	which is pretty weird :\|	18:29
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zoran	k, should be mount -t vfat /media/mmc2 /something	18:30
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zoran	but linux also has -t msdos	18:30
zoran	msdos means short file names	18:30
zoran	vfat is longnames	18:30
zoran	on bsd is is a headache	18:31
zoran	I had to mount_msdosfs -l -o longnames /dev/da0s1 /flashdisk	18:31
zoran	kingston technician advised me to reformat	18:32
\|R	hehe	18:32
zoran	format to what?	18:32
\|R	there is no vfat support ?	18:32
zoran	on bsd newfs_msdos -F 32 /dev/da0	18:32
zoran	it shoud be long names option	18:33
zoran	*should	18:33
\|R	uhm i can exec on fat after umount / mount	18:33
zoran	say again!	18:33
\|R	so just need to find the damn option so i don't have to do this by hand ;)	18:33
zoran	on ext2 it should be: ./myfile	18:34
\|R	/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000)	18:34
\|R	/dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (0)	18:34
zoran	on vfat probably: myfile	18:34
\|R	card 1 without remount	18:34
\|R	card to with remount (no options)	18:34
\|R	to/2	18:34
zoran	ah, lucky guy, you have two cards!	18:35
\|R	hehe :)	18:35
zoran	you folks know what to live for	18:35
zoran	\|R, should not be prob to run a file from vfat	18:36
zoran	that way I reflashed 770	18:37
\|R	i just don't want to have to mount by hand :\|	18:37
zoran	unix way	18:37
zoran	you could mount it from fstab	18:37
zoran	for ext2 kernel module should be loaded	18:38
\|R	weird thing is... the fstab default entry is mounting mmc1 where mmc2 actually is, so i think it's not even used	18:38
zoran	df ?	18:39
sciboy	Okay, I'll be keeping the included minisd in the battery slot of the n800, my 4GB SD from my GP2X going in the outer one.	18:39
zoran	do you see it	18:39
\|R	yep, df is having device *0 to mmc2 and fstab to mmc1	18:39
\|R	yep	18:39
zoran	could you paste it?	18:39
\|R	that's what i pasted earlier :)	18:39
\|R	/dev/mmcblk0p1	18:40
\|R	etc	18:40
zoran	ah, I use psybnc, short buffer	18:40
\|R	uh 2 sec	18:40
\|R	ehhe	18:40
\|R	/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000)	18:40
\|R	/dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (0)	18:40
\|R	while the fstab is for the first card on mmc2:	18:41
\|R	/dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc1 vfat rw,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999 0 0	18:41
\|R	go figure :P	18:41
zoran	you change it, I think	18:41
zoran	mmcblk0p1 is on mmc1 or 2?	18:41
\|R	mmc2	18:42
zoran	k, no big deal	18:42
zoran	and yu see second card?	18:43
\|R	i changed it in fstab and can use fstab to mount/umount and its alright	18:43
\|R	but it seems that at the boot it doesn't care about that fstab	18:43
\|R	yep, both cards work just fine	18:43
zoran	noauto means ++ don't mount it at boot	18:43
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ttuttle	Hey.	18:44
zoran	/dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc1 dafault 0 0	18:44
zoran	*default	18:44
zoran	or defaults	18:44
zoran	works for me	18:45
\|R	yep works too with all the same options but exec instead of noexec... let me try to reboot :)	18:45
zoran	:)	18:45
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zoran	what kingston memories have as default file system, as you bought it vanilla	18:55
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pupnik	2 minutes to Horton	19:01
\|R	uhm, if i use swap i can't remount without removing the swap first, so even manually i'm screwed for the internal card... /me is going to look around init.d	19:02
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zoran	if the swap is in a "file on card" format	19:03
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\|R	yep	19:04
zoran	why not as partition?	19:04
zoran	no more headache with unount	19:04
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\|R	it would be simpler without and i could reuse the cards faster too	19:04
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ttuttle	brb	19:07
zoran	F1 is probably boot manager	19:08
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ttuttle	back	19:10
zoran	cool	19:11
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zoran	anybody could check kingston way of making fs?	19:13
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pupnik	ahh finally horton is on	19:19
zoran	pupnik, what is horton?	19:20
pupnik	the scott horton show, streaming live right now @ kaos959.com	19:22
pupnik	good stuff every day	19:22
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* zoran goes to feed dragons		19:28
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lardman	anyone with good integer representation skills here?	19:47
lardman	I want to convert a 64bit type into a 32bit int	19:47
pupnik	1 2 3	19:47
pupnik	oh	19:47
mgedmin	2 + 2 = ?	19:47
pupnik	unsigned? >> 32 :)	19:47
lardman	no, signed	19:47
mgedmin	what language? how do you want to handle overflows?	19:47
lardman	C, no overflows, I'll only convert if the return is an error value (i.e. <0 and small)	19:48
mgedmin	is the 64bit type an int or something else (fixed-point)?	19:48
lardman	it's a struct	19:48
lardman	hang on, I'll find the definition and pastebin it	19:48
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lardman	struct to represent an int because no 64bit types available, etc.	19:49
lardman	http://pastebin.ca/738777	19:51
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mgedmin	ah, no, just use the 'lo' member to get a 32-bit signed equivalent of the 64-bit number	19:53
lardman	will it be signed though?	19:53
mgedmin	to check for overflow you'd check whether 'hi' was 0 (when lo > 0) or -1 (when lo < 0)	19:53
mgedmin	I don't know whether ogg_int32_t is signed or not	19:53
lardman	yes	19:53
mgedmin	but the bit pattern will be correct for a signed number (assuming two's complement, which every modern architecture uses)	19:54
mgedmin	also, when in doubt, write a unit test	19:54
lardman	I know, just lots to do and I may forget about it	19:54
lardman	I'll write a post-it to check!	19:55
lardman	Thanks	19:55
* lardman goes back to searching for 64bit values to encase in bloody struct altering functions ;)		19:55
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milhouse	_monkey, seen timeless?	20:43
_Monkey	timeless was last seen on #maemo 5 hours, 54 minutes and 58 seconds ago, saying: gomiam: i'm not sure many people use it :( [Tue Oct 16 12:48:52 2007]	20:43
milhouse	slacker :(	20:44
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sciboy	=)	23:04
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sciboy	From my google searches I can assume Maemo doesn't have many games?	23:11
pupnik	maemo - development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets	23:11
pupnik	ITOS - Operating system for Nokia Internet Tablets	23:12
pupnik	but you're correct	23:12
sciboy	Would game development for the device be the kind of thing most users would appreciate though?	23:13
[31d1]	i want someone to port pileobubbles to 770	23:13
pupnik	i'd say the userbase is not particularly interested in games	23:13
[31d1]	tia	23:13
Jiten_	well, even if not, it would make the device more interesting to users who do appreciate it	23:13
pupnik	[31d1] open in your browser http://www.wickedpissahgames.com/games/pileobubbles/PileOBubbles.html	23:14
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Jiten_	personally, I'm not planning on using it for gaming. communication device and study aid.	23:14
[31d1]	it wouldnt work when i tried it	23:14
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pupnik	or download the swf http://www.wickedpissahgames.com/games/pileobubbles/PileOBubbles.swf	23:16
[31d1]	also the swf wouldn't work on standalone iirc	23:17
pupnik	trying it	23:17
kala	what about xmame and nintendo and ...	23:18
pupnik	doesn't work here in standalone	23:18
sciboy	I've pretty much decided to do a browser-based adventure game for the N800 specifically anyway.	23:18
pupnik	kala xmame works, nintendo us provided by fceu	23:18
kala	... and scummvm	23:18
kala	I see them listed in my app manager	23:18
kala	I suppose there are plenty of games for them	23:19
[31d1]	best gam since tetris except not really	23:19
Jiten_	I'm currently looking at what tools I'll use to port this pyQT program called mnemosyne to n800. Do you think I should use glade for it?	23:19
pupnik	very cool game [31d1]	23:19
sciboy	Unless the interest is there though, I'd probably focus on multiplatform stuff afterwards.	23:19
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[31d1]	pile o bubbles inspired me to learn flash, but all i managed to make was a thing where you click a dot	23:22
[31d1]	and a flying butt	23:22
sciboy	Flash makes me cry.	23:22
pupnik	it's an impressive game from a computing algorithm standpoint	23:23
sciboy	It's going to be fun being able to target a specific platform though, knowing the exact resolution, processing power, input method etc.	23:24
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Jiten_	to glade or not to glade...	23:25
sciboy	XHTML/CSS/Javascript, No sound or save points, but I will be splitting the gameplay and story into bite-size parts selectable from the main screen.	23:27
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florian	re	23:28
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Ar-ras	re	23:37
Ar-ras	is it normal that the camera of the N800 makes so crappy videos/images?	23:38
celesteh	yes, it is, alas	23:38
\|R	hehe	23:39
Ar-ras	alas?	23:39
Ar-ras	:D	23:39
Ar-ras	man that so worse	23:39
celesteh	alas and alak	23:40
Ar-ras	i own now N800 for 3 month	23:40
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Ar-ras	and thought that it would have camera support	23:41
Ar-ras	and there is no software for videochat for n800 <> PC	23:41
pupnik	Alas, alak, a lass, I lack	23:41
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pupnik	yes i think there is Gizmo or soemthign	23:41
Ar-ras	i tried Gizmo	23:42
Ar-ras	doesnt work	23:42
Ar-ras	:(	23:42
Ar-ras	could it be firmware dependent?	23:42
Jiten_	what version do you have?	23:43
Ar-ras	recent firmware	23:44
Jiten_	it installs but doesn't work or it doesn't even install?	23:44
Ar-ras	it installs	23:44
Ar-ras	it runs	23:44
Ar-ras	but video doesnt work	23:44
Ar-ras	in internettablettalk.com	23:45
Ar-ras	they say that it would work on some devices	23:45
Ar-ras	some have luck and it works	23:45
Ar-ras	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9425	23:47
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Jiten_	I see	23:48
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Ar-ras	i installed , and uninstalled	23:49
Ar-ras	and now	23:49
Ar-ras	erm	23:49
Ar-ras	you know	23:50
Ar-ras	if you put out the webcam	23:50
Ar-ras	flip out the webcam?	23:50
Ar-ras	dont know the correct english word for that	23:50
Ar-ras	ok when you extract the webacm	23:50
Ar-ras	then it dont runs this googletalk client	23:51
Ar-ras	automatically	23:51
Ar-ras	do you have link to the direct download of the old firmware files?	23:51
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pupnik	Ar-ras: you need to enter your product code to get them	23:58
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Ar-ras	thats no problem	23:59
Ar-ras	D	23:59
Ar-ras	:D	23:59

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