| pupnik | i've only used the stowaway kbd | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| ffoegboy | pupnik, Is that good? | 00:02 |
| pupnik | i love it, but i've only used that one | 00:03 |
| pupnik | nokia makes one too | 00:04 |
| pupnik | for me it was important that the keyboard locks into the open position so i can use it on uneven surfaces | 00:05 |
| ffoegboy | pupnik, I was just about to ask you that, i need to use it in the car (not while driving lol) | 00:05 |
| pupnik | it doesn't firmly attatch to the 770, so if you use it on lap, you need a backpack or a case in lap | 00:07 |
| pupnik | on lap | 00:07 |
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| pupnik | it has a little stand upon which the 770 leans | 00:07 |
| ffoegboy | is it an HID keybard? Did you have any trouble connecting to the N770 | 00:07 |
| pupnik | no trouble - yes hid profile | 00:07 |
| Deformative | Are there any full size bluetooth keyboards? | 00:08 |
| celesteh | the computer store near my house is full of them | 00:08 |
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| ffoegboy | pupnik, Im reading a review about it and it says it folds in the middle when open, didnt you say it locked flat when open? | 00:09 |
| pupnik | yes | 00:09 |
| ffoegboy | pupnik, you mean it does lock open? what model is yours? | 00:09 |
| pupnik | thinkoutside stowaway | 00:10 |
| pupnik | sorry my answer should have been no | 00:10 |
| pupnik | i did not not say it locked flat when open | 00:10 |
| pupnik | that means it locks into the flat position when opened | 00:10 |
| Deformative | I want a traditional keyboard type thing. | 00:10 |
| Deformative | No folding | 00:10 |
| ffoegboy | pupnik, sorry i missunderstood when you said that it was important that it locked open i thought that yiours did that | 00:11 |
| pupnik | it does not not lock into the open position | 00:11 |
| ffoegboy | pupnik, i wonder if any do, that sounds like a good feature to have when travelling | 00:12 |
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| pupnik | the thinkoutside stowaway does | 00:12 |
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| Deformative | Are there any non folding blue tooth keyboard compatible with the 770? | 00:12 |
| pupnik | why Deformative ? | 00:13 |
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| Deformative | Because that is what I want | 00:13 |
| Deformative | :D | 00:13 |
| pupnik | where would you use it? | 00:13 |
| Deformative | I hate mini keyboards. | 00:13 |
| Deformative | I have really big fingers. | 00:14 |
| ffoegboy | pupnik, in the car of on a train, | 00:14 |
| pupnik | that would be big to carry around | 00:14 |
| pupnik | the stowaway fits in my pocket and has full size keys | 00:14 |
| Deformative | I have a bag that I carry my books in. | 00:14 |
| Deformative | So it wouldn't bother me. | 00:14 |
| Deformative | I guess a folding one would be good. | 00:14 |
| * Deformative shrugs | 00:14 | |
| pupnik | the folding one is protected. an open one would need a case | 00:15 |
| Deformative | Ah. | 00:15 |
| Deformative | Good point. | 00:15 |
| pupnik | check out the sierra folding keyboard - has 5 rows so you can type numbers and #@$%@$% normally | 00:15 |
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| Deformative | Are all bt keyboards supported or just a portion? | 00:17 |
| c0ffee | all that support hid should work | 00:17 |
| Deformative | hid ? | 00:18 |
| _Monkey | somebody said hid was a standard for how interface deviced talk to computers | 00:18 |
| Deformative | Ah. | 00:18 |
| c0ffee | human-interface-device | 00:19 |
| pupnik | it's fun to see when monkey actually auto-learns a useful answer | 00:20 |
| bearclaw_ | maemo hacking is becoming too easy now that you can install ssh and a term from the web browser :) | 00:20 |
| pupnik | maemo? | 00:20 |
| _Monkey | maemo is at maemo.org or Open Source Software | 00:20 |
| pupnik | oh that's a terrible answer, we had a better one | 00:21 |
| bearclaw_ | maemo? | 00:21 |
| _Monkey | maemo is at maemo.org or Open Source Software | 00:21 |
| bearclaw_ | _Monkey has only one memory slot per word it seems | 00:21 |
| _Monkey | bearclaw_: i'm not following you... | 00:21 |
| pupnik | maemo? | 00:22 |
| _Monkey | somebody said maemo was the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets: maemo.org | 00:22 |
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| pupnik | so you don't 'hack maemo' on the device, because maemo isnt on the device | 00:22 |
| bearclaw_ | you're right, nokia770 I meant | 00:23 |
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| Deformative | Bleh. | 00:26 |
| bedboi | damn damn damn. | 00:26 |
| bedboi | g_thread_create does not return null. so wtf is going on there? | 00:27 |
| Deformative | Try the other rubntime? | 00:27 |
| pupnik | i only see pthread code on my drive | 00:29 |
| Deformative | I don't think wireless is working. | 00:29 |
| pupnik | if( pthread_create( thread, &type, runThread, ( void * ) fn ) != 0 ) { ..... | 00:29 |
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| bedboi | pupnik: GThread's should just use pthread (it is something needed for portability) | 00:33 |
| bedboi | and btw it is exactly the same, and moreover i don't see why GThread should not work on maemo! | 00:33 |
| bedboi | and it works perfectly on x86 | 00:34 |
| bedboi | core_socket_thread = g_thread_create((GThreadFunc)core_socket_up,cs->priv->core_socket, FALSE, NULL); | 00:35 |
| bedboi | it returns !NULL, but core_socket_up is not called NEVER | 00:35 |
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| bedboi | but i can't believe it's a bug in maemo glib... I guess a lot of people is using threads on maemo | 00:37 |
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| bearclaw_ | bedboi: try sleeping just after the thread_create call | 00:39 |
| bearclaw_ | (to give a chance to the new thread to be scheduled before current thread does anything) | 00:40 |
| bedboi | bearclaw_: lol | 00:40 |
| bedboi | i hope it is not that | 00:40 |
| bedboi | it would be so bad | 00:41 |
| bearclaw_ | i doubt it will fix your problem, but it may behave differently | 00:41 |
| bedboi | bearclaw_: hmm | 00:41 |
| bedboi | btw i sleep in several place after... let's see what happens | 00:41 |
| bedboi | shotgun debugging is too bad. | 00:42 |
| bedboi | because you end up with bad code after (hopefully) fixing | 00:42 |
| bearclaw_ | bluetooth isn't working on os2007 hacker ed for nokia770, is it a known bug? Is a fix planned? | 00:42 |
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| bearclaw_ | bedboi: I agree, but it might help understanding what is wrong | 00:43 |
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| bedboi | nothing happened | 00:44 |
| bearclaw_ | you have a printf and something like that at the very beginning of core_socket_up I suppose? | 00:44 |
| bedboi | yep | 00:44 |
| bedboi | the VERY | 00:44 |
| bedboi | i have f***ing printfs all over the place now | 00:45 |
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| bedboi | in the qemu environment is even worse :) | 00:47 |
| Deformative | bedboi: What are you making? | 00:47 |
| bedboi | Deformative: what are you meaning? | 00:47 |
| bearclaw_ | can you do something on the returned gthread object? I dont know glib, but perhaps querying his status or something like that | 00:47 |
| bedboi | a threaded application | 00:47 |
| Deformative | What do you need threads for? | 00:47 |
| bedboi | Deformative: i need threads, full stop. | 00:47 |
| Deformative | More specific. | 00:47 |
| bedboi | it's a networking application | 00:48 |
| bedboi | threads are very usefull in many circumstances. | 00:48 |
| Deformative | I am not an idiot. | 00:48 |
| Deformative | I just wanted to know what you were making. | 00:48 |
| bedboi | Deformative: networking app, I need 3 threads | 00:48 |
| Deformative | ... | 00:49 |
| Deformative | I am not interested in the threads. | 00:49 |
| Deformative | I just wanted to know what it is you are making. | 00:49 |
| Deformative | Networking app is hardly specific. | 00:49 |
| bedboi | Deformative: it's some research application for the FIND (Future Internet Design) project | 00:50 |
| Deformative | Oh, neat. | 00:50 |
| pupnik | a wider search shows no apps on 770 using g_thread_create . everything is pthread_create so far | 00:50 |
| bedboi | why is that??? | 00:50 |
| bedboi | is there something that we should know about glib and maemo? | 00:51 |
| bedboi | maemo is quite glib-centric | 00:51 |
| pupnik | i don't know but it's interesting | 00:51 |
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| pupnik | interesting you found this issue | 00:51 |
| bedboi | so i supposed glib is fully supported and perfectly working on that. | 00:51 |
| bedboi | damn. | 00:51 |
| pupnik | i've got a project that doesn't build yet that has g_thread_create, so thanks for bringing this up | 00:52 |
| suihkulokki | bedboi: post a testcase to the maemo-devel mailing list | 00:53 |
| bedboi | it's what i'm doing. | 00:53 |
| bedboi | btw i want to be sure that GThreads are not working at all, which i guess it's not simply reproducable. | 00:53 |
| bedboi | i guess that they work at some extent but they are not fully supported or buggy | 00:54 |
| bearclaw_ | can anyone try "hcitool dev" on a 770 with OS2007 hacker edition? | 00:54 |
| suihkulokki | They should work, they shouldn't be buggy | 00:55 |
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| suihkulokki | bedboi: you are testing on the device, or in scratchbox? | 00:55 |
| bedboi | device | 00:57 |
| _Monkey | somebody said device was perfect | 00:57 |
| bedboi | _Monkey: you should shut your bot-mouth :) | 00:57 |
| _Monkey | bedboi: what? | 00:57 |
| suihkulokki | _Monkey: change to shutup bot | 00:57 |
| _Monkey | suihkulokki: that doesn't look right | 00:57 |
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| suihkulokki | :] | 00:57 |
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| bedboi | LOL. | 00:58 |
| pupnik | i turned that response off | 00:58 |
| suihkulokki | bedboi: gthreads are just a wrapper on top of pthreads, so things should work the same way | 00:59 |
| bedboi | yep that's why i'm not figuring out | 00:59 |
| bedboi | maybe something bad in GMainLoop | 00:59 |
| suihkulokki | bedboi: the only major difference is that on maemo, they are still using linuxthreads, not nptl like your pc probably does | 00:59 |
| bedboi | GMainLoop is very delicate stuff. | 00:59 |
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| suihkulokki | but many people do use threads in maemo, so it might be some way of using threads that doesn't work | 01:00 |
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| bedboi | hmm | 01:01 |
| bedboi | why's that | 01:01 |
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| RushPL | I have a problem with LCARS theme, some apps have black text on black bg labels. I suppose it cannot be fixed without app ingeration, or maybe can it? | 01:01 |
| bedboi | brb, gotta go to the bank or it will close | 01:01 |
| RushPL | (like the feed reader or maemopad+) | 01:01 |
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| pupnik | i hate apps that are incompatible with dark themes | 01:02 |
| pupnik | and webpages too | 01:02 |
| pupnik | "dur-de-dur... I'll just make the text black, because *everybody* wants black text! dur-de-dur..." | 01:02 |
| RushPL | well, I cannot agree more. Is there anything better than Maemopad+ or a replacement for Feed reader(along with plugin) | 01:03 |
| pupnik | I just complain to the author | 01:03 |
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| RushPL | ok, maybe they will comply :> | 01:04 |
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| RushPL | pupnik: do you know why they haven't made "rectangle restoring" after elements going into hide again? The part of the screen becomes black and needs to wait for a redraw. | 01:06 |
| pupnik | no | 01:07 |
| pupnik | maybe it saves memory though | 01:07 |
| RushPL | come on, part of such small screen .. and for not that long. | 01:08 |
| RushPL | (I mean the buffering sollution) | 01:08 |
| pupnik | xomap derives from kdrive X server, iirc. And that is designed for the smallest possible footprint. | 01:09 |
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| RushPL | whatever, but the black rects look lame. :) | 01:09 |
| pupnik | i don't notice anything | 01:10 |
| RushPL | well, these are not black rects, it's the background. | 01:10 |
| RushPL | open menu and close | 01:10 |
| RushPL | you'll see the background | 01:10 |
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| bearclaw_ | ah, after a reboot, my bluetooth device is back | 01:12 |
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| pupnik | right - well sleep calls - cheers | 01:14 |
| bearclaw_ | 'night | 01:15 |
| RushPL | night | 01:15 |
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| Deformative | Lala | 01:15 |
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| RushPL | Deformative: now I have a good bunch of repos added, and I'm evaluating current apps. | 01:15 |
| Deformative | :D | 01:16 |
| Deformative | Too much is closed source. | 01:16 |
| Deformative | Much more than I expected | 01:16 |
| Deformative | I am getting scratchbox to work. | 01:17 |
| Deformative | I made a ubuntu partition on my lappy. | 01:17 |
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| RushPL | stupid question, how do I input 0 with text writing?(not O, 0) | 01:21 |
| RushPL | I mean hand-writing | 01:22 |
| Deformative | Hand writing is bad. | 01:24 |
| Deformative | It wears out the touchscreen real fast. | 01:24 |
| Deformative | I learned that from past experience on palm. | 01:24 |
| procto | RushPL: write an O and then cross it diagonally. You can go to the "Train Handwriting" program to see how to write letters and numbers. | 01:25 |
| bedboi | Deformative: yep. it is useless in my opinion | 01:25 |
| bedboi | thumb keyboard rocks most of the time | 01:25 |
| bedboi | and it works even if you have to type when walking which happens a lot | 01:25 |
| bedboi | the writing stuff is impossible in that scenario | 01:26 |
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| bedboi | i never had any luck with that | 01:26 |
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| procto | I use the writing when I'm in the console | 01:29 |
| procto | since I'm programmed in a bunch of macros | 01:29 |
| bedboi | hmm actually strace on x86 reveals a clone syscall which in n800 case doesn't get called | 01:29 |
| procto | for exaple "|more" | 01:29 |
| procto | I just do a certain squiggly | 01:29 |
| procto | and get that | 01:29 |
| procto | or "|greo -i" | 01:29 |
| procto | grep* | 01:29 |
| procto | and several others | 01:29 |
| procto | that, and adding Ctrl-C and Enter to the xterm toolbar | 01:30 |
| procto | made working in the shell on the n800 sooo much faster | 01:30 |
| procto | at least when I don't feel like taking out my keyboard | 01:30 |
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| bedboi | damn, it's real pain debugging this issue. | 01:33 |
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| Deformative | Then don't. | 01:34 |
| bedboi | Deformative: i'm forced to do that. | 01:34 |
| bedboi | It's work man. | 01:35 |
| Deformative | Why do you need g threads? | 01:35 |
| bedboi | the cool stuff is that it used to work for some random time before. | 01:35 |
| Deformative | Then use the syscalls directly? | 01:35 |
| Deformative | I dunno. | 01:35 |
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| Deformative | Why is the sb-menu step not included in the maemo 2.2 tutorial? | 01:52 |
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| bedboi | Then I had to port it again to Scratchbox X86. A whole set of new problems; | 02:05 |
| bedboi | different levels of libraries, pthreads just didn't work so I had to make my | 02:05 |
| bedboi | webserver single-threaded, and several build scripts had to be rewritten | 02:05 |
| bedboi | LOL | 02:05 |
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| Deformative | Does anyone know what the 770's processors excel most at? | 02:08 |
| bedboi | nope | 02:08 |
| bedboi | sleeping? | 02:08 |
| bedboi | exiting without reason? | 02:08 |
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| bedboi | i've sent a mail to the dev mailing list | 02:18 |
| bearclaw_ | woot | 02:21 |
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| bedboi | bearclaw_: what's up? | 02:21 |
| bearclaw_ | I just started the Qt example 'puzzle' on the 770 | 02:21 |
| bedboi | ye? | 02:21 |
| bedboi | does it work? | 02:21 |
| bearclaw_ | yes, but no image :) | 02:21 |
| bedboi | eheh | 02:21 |
| bearclaw_ | I forgot to copy it | 02:21 |
| bedboi | ah ok. so qt is working on that | 02:21 |
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| bearclaw_ | it seems so | 02:22 |
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| bearclaw_ | yup, at least jpg display, and drag and drop are working | 02:28 |
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| bearclaw_ | is there a way to make the virtual keyboard appear? | 02:33 |
| nelson_ | tap in any input box. | 02:33 |
| Deformative | When configuring scratchbox do I use debian-etch lenny or sarge? | 02:33 |
| bearclaw_ | Deformative: I used the automatic script which worked fine | 02:34 |
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| bearclaw_ | nelson_: I'm using qt :) | 02:34 |
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| Deformative | What script? | 02:34 |
| bearclaw_ | and its not working | 02:34 |
| bearclaw_ | maemo-scratchbox-install_3.1.sh | 02:34 |
| Deformative | I need 2.2 | 02:34 |
| bearclaw_ | there's likely one for 2.2 too | 02:35 |
| Deformative | URL? | 02:35 |
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| bearclaw_ | hmm, no there isn't one for 2.2 sorry | 02:36 |
| bearclaw_ | well, qt works out of the box...as long as you don't need to enter text | 02:37 |
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| Deformative | Hmm. | 02:41 |
| Deformative | This is hard to setup. | 02:41 |
| Deformative | :( | 02:41 |
| ffoegboy | has anybody tried the frogpad keyboard? http://www.frogpad.com/information/bluefroginfo.asp | 02:46 |
| Deformative | Ugh. | 02:47 |
| Deformative | RushPL, how did you get scratchbox working? | 02:47 |
| Deformative | Nothing in that tutorial is accurate. | 02:47 |
| RushPL | basically it was 'emerge scratchbox' | 02:47 |
| RushPL | but I didn't practically got it working, there were some issues | 02:47 |
| RushPL | I mean, after logging in | 02:48 |
| RushPL | I'll play with it later :) | 02:48 |
| Deformative | Hmm. | 02:48 |
| Deformative | How did you get the maemo sdk working? | 02:48 |
| RushPL | downloaded it, copied to the scratchbox root and ran some menuconfig app or smth like that | 02:49 |
| RushPL | menulist I think | 02:49 |
| RushPL | you then install it from there, selecting the sdk | 02:49 |
| Deformative | Hmm. | 02:49 |
| Deformative | This is really really irritating me. | 02:49 |
| Deformative | I want a script | 02:50 |
| RushPL | it wouldn't call it pure fun for me either :P | 02:50 |
| RushPL | oh crap, I accidentally downloaded something big to mmc1 instead of mmc2, everything hanged | 02:51 |
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| * Deformative cannot get damn maemo sdk/scratchbox to work. | 02:57 | |
| * Deformative goes insane | 02:58 | |
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| bedboi | cool, it is not so good to /etc/init.d/dbus restart :) | 03:01 |
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| Deformative | Can someone please tar up a working maemo/scratchbox sdk for me please? | 03:53 |
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| Deformative | Can someone at least help me? | 03:56 |
| Deformative | 205 people and no help. | 03:56 |
| Deformative | Least talkative irc channel ever. | 03:57 |
| Deformative | Heh. | 03:57 |
| bedboi | tar? | 03:57 |
| _Monkey | i heard tar was distributed with busybox, which is default last I checked | 03:57 |
| bedboi | are you crazy? | 03:57 |
| Deformative | ? | 03:57 |
| bedboi | than it would be even worse for you | 03:58 |
| Deformative | Why? | 03:58 |
| bedboi | to get the stuff working | 03:58 |
| Deformative | I doubt it. | 03:58 |
| bedboi | because in the installation some files go in /etc/init.d/ for instance | 03:59 |
| bedboi | and what else | 03:59 |
| Deformative | This tutorial is completely ugh. | 03:59 |
| Deformative | Nothing there wirjs, | 03:59 |
| bedboi | brb, going home | 03:59 |
| Deformative | s/wirjs/works | 03:59 |
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| RushPL | Deformative: so have you managed to log into scratchbox or not? | 04:03 |
| Deformative | Yes. | 04:04 |
| RushPL | installed SDK? | 04:04 |
| Deformative | But the version of scratchbox says that all the commands for installing the sdk is obsolete. | 04:04 |
| RushPL | (tutorial is not precisely exact, I think it's a bit outdated) | 04:04 |
| RushPL | ah :) | 04:04 |
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| RushPL | there is one replacement command, that menu thing | 04:04 |
| Deformative | I know, but I cannot get it working. | 04:05 |
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| Deformative | RushPL: Halp? | 04:10 |
| RushPL | erm, don't know how. So what are you exactly stucked on? | 04:12 |
| RushPL | installing sdk? | 04:12 |
| Deformative | Yes. | 04:12 |
| RushPL | so, upload your sdk to scratchbox's root | 04:12 |
| RushPL | do /scratchbox/login (or wherever you have it) | 04:13 |
| Deformative | Uh | 04:13 |
| Deformative | The tutorial says /scratchbox/login | 04:13 |
| Deformative | damn | 04:13 |
| Deformative | now you got me saying it | 04:13 |
| Deformative | The tutorial says /scratchbox/packages | 04:13 |
| RushPL | whatever, you select the file anyway | 04:14 |
| Deformative | I know. | 04:14 |
| Deformative | Which one do I need? | 04:14 |
| RushPL | probably both | 04:14 |
| RushPL | the pc one is for testing locally, and arm is for cross-compiling | 04:15 |
| Deformative | "Our reposiotry" points to only ONE | 04:15 |
| RushPL | the qemu won't be doing any cpu emulation | 04:15 |
| Deformative | Which pissed me off. | 04:15 |
| RushPL | I remember downloading both without a glitch :P | 04:15 |
| Deformative | So I need i386 and armel? | 04:15 |
| RushPL | yep | 04:16 |
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| bedboi | o | 04:16 |
| bedboi | ops | 04:16 |
| Deformative | Is there a tutorial for installing gcc on the nokia? | 04:20 |
| Deformative | RushPL: I got the rootstrap | 04:22 |
| RushPL | Deformative: superb, now do the scratchbox login and run sb-menu afterwards | 04:23 |
| Deformative | Done | 04:24 |
| RushPL | then "Create a new target" for each of the images | 04:24 |
| RushPL | and after that I think you should try to get that virtual X server, but I didn't manage to get that running. Good luck. :) | 04:24 |
| bedboi | Deformati: i remember that it was not that difficult setting up sbox | 04:25 |
| Deformative | The tutorial is COMPLETELY obsolete | 04:25 |
| Deformative | Nothing works | 04:25 |
| RushPL | Deformative: that's more FUUN this way! :> | 04:26 |
| Deformative | Not at all. | 04:26 |
| RushPL | can I force maemo's application to NOT delete my emails while I delete them locally? | 04:29 |
| RushPL | and it mixes all my emails from all accounts together :O | 04:29 |
| RushPL | Deformative: halp! | 04:29 |
| Deformative | ? | 04:30 |
| Deformative | I dunno. | 04:30 |
| Deformative | I set up gmail to work it it. | 04:30 |
| Deformative | But I didn't delete anything. | 04:30 |
| Deformative | There is no explanation for xephyr | 04:31 |
| RushPL | wtf, now it just asked me what to do. It just wanted to delete all from the server the last time. | 04:32 |
| RushPL | Deformative: xephyr is in xorg, should be shipped with arch. | 04:32 |
| RushPL | also you may find it as 'kdrive' or smth like that | 04:32 |
| Deformative | I installed ubuntu on an extra disk | 04:32 |
| RushPL | and the Tutorial suggests that Xephyr is actually in the scratchbox installation, it is not. | 04:33 |
| Deformative | Oh. | 04:33 |
| Deformative | Weirddd. | 04:33 |
| RushPL | so fuck the tutorial and install it separately. | 04:33 |
| RushPL | it just needs to set up a local X session at :2 | 04:33 |
| Deformative | Pisses me off. | 04:34 |
| Deformative | n800 gets a script to install this shit. | 04:34 |
| RushPL | we are poor n770 :( | 04:34 |
| RushPL | but n770 has far cooler looks! | 04:35 |
| RushPL | the fcuk, I can only locally delete only ONE message. | 04:36 |
| Deformative | All of the apps I have used on the 770 have been pretty shitty. | 04:40 |
| Deformative | Except like, the network manager, I like that one. | 04:40 |
| RushPL | I quite like the simple design of many of the apps, quite suits the LCARS-PADD theme. | 04:43 |
| RushPL | Deformative: http://home.rushabse.net/~rush/muu.jpg - From yesterday, my first run of xterm + ssh. :P | 04:43 |
| RushPL | but unfortunately many apps screw the font colors :( | 04:44 |
| bedboi | wow, is it normal that sbox uses svn 1.1? | 04:45 |
| bedboi | it is damn old | 04:46 |
| bedboi | and buggy | 04:46 |
| bedboi | and it doesn't support pegs | 04:46 |
| bedboi | at least for me | 04:46 |
| RushPL | but some operations take pretty damn long on Nokiam, and not everything has busy notifications. | 04:46 |
| Deformative | RushPL, the design is good, the apps are shit. | 04:47 |
| Deformative | The browser keeps crashing. | 04:47 |
| Deformative | The pdf viewer is pretty good. | 04:47 |
| Deformative | The contact stuff is HORRID. | 04:47 |
| RushPL | Deformative: and I don't like the mess when the windows are disappering, they leave rectangles which are filled with background. | 04:47 |
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| RushPL | I think it should be possible to buffer what was underneath. | 04:48 |
| Deformative | What windows are disappearing? | 04:48 |
| RushPL | click on menu, and click again to hide it. | 04:48 |
| Deformative | Oh. | 04:48 |
| RushPL | you should have some content underneath | 04:48 |
| RushPL | all disappearing windows leave that crap. | 04:49 |
| RushPL | Deformative: you're X11 specialist, do something about that. :P | 04:49 |
| Deformative | Doesn't happen for me. | 04:49 |
| RushPL | how about brutally hacking the source and do raw framebuffer reading/writing? :D I could do that | 04:49 |
| Deformative | Doesn't happen for me. | 04:49 |
| RushPL | Deformative: impossible, it has to ;) | 04:49 |
| Deformative | What os version? | 04:50 |
| RushPL | OS2006 | 04:50 |
| _Monkey | well, OS2006 is the second ABI (armel) for the Nokia 770 | 04:50 |
| Deformative | I am using os2006 v2 | 04:50 |
| Deformative | I was thinking about upgrading to v3, but I didn't see a reason to. | 04:50 |
| RushPL | I have v3, but that quirks happened on 2005 too. | 04:51 |
| Deformative | It really doesn't happen for me. | 04:51 |
| Deformative | I want to do some fixing, but so much is closed source. | 04:52 |
| Deformative | :( | 04:52 |
| Deformative | I want to do a top down rewrite in D. | 04:52 |
| RushPL | okay, maybe another quirk you will find actually notice. | 04:53 |
| RushPL | when those fancy themed menus pop-up, first the black rect is being drawn, then you can see the theme parts appearing. | 04:54 |
| RushPL | it's not being drawn in some backbuffer. | 04:54 |
| Deformative | Wait, what? | 04:54 |
| _Monkey | Wait, is nflick an uploader? | 04:54 |
| RushPL | it's not any fps intensive thing so it should be displayed once it is displayed. | 04:54 |
| RushPL | arm | 04:55 |
| RushPL | rendered | 04:55 |
| Deformative | No, explain how to reproduce. | 04:55 |
| Deformative | I think you have something messed up on your box. | 04:55 |
| Deformative | Because I have no idea what you are talking about. | 04:55 |
| Deformative | Maybe it is just your theme? | 04:56 |
| Deformative | Rush? | 05:01 |
| RushPL | Deformative: http://home.rushabse.net/~rush/770quirks.avi | 05:01 |
| Deformative | Sec, I need to install a movie player on this desktop | 05:02 |
| RushPL | lol | 05:03 |
| RushPL | buntubu | 05:03 |
| RushPL | no video player | 05:03 |
| Deformative | Ubuntu is on the laptop | 05:03 |
| Deformative | This is desktop | 05:03 |
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| RushPL | ah, buu, youtube generation then. :> | 05:04 |
| Deformative | Ah | 05:06 |
| Deformative | That is so minimal. | 05:06 |
| Deformative | But yeah, that should be an easy fix. | 05:06 |
| Deformative | If that part is open, that is. | 05:07 |
| RushPL | I do not consider this minimal, I have good eyes for such things. Too much shooters. | 05:07 |
| Deformative | In X, you simply need to parent all the subwindows before the menu is mapped to screen. | 05:07 |
| Deformative | With a white theme it is far less noticeable. | 05:08 |
| RushPL | and this is parented to the background? | 05:08 |
| RushPL | like, root? | 05:08 |
| Deformative | The menu should be parented to root, yes, but the things you click on are parented to the menu. | 05:08 |
| Deformative | I find it VERY odd that it acts this way, I had figured gtk would eliminate such a problem. | 05:09 |
| Deformative | So. | 05:15 |
| Deformative | Deformative desperately wants to do so dev. | 05:15 |
| Deformative | I would like to be independent of the computer. | 05:15 |
| Deformative | Pure nokia. | 05:15 |
| Deformative | Just because it seems that the computer support is all but useless. | 05:15 |
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| Deformative | No replies from nokia regarding gdc... | 05:17 |
| Deformative | :( | 05:17 |
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| [31d1] | is it possible to get better flash support without macromedia doing it? | 05:19 |
| Deformative | s/macromedia/adobe | 05:21 |
| Deformative | And linux/FreeBSD has been wondering that for years. | 05:21 |
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| [31d1] | oh, yeah | 05:21 |
| [31d1] | youtube viewer pls | 05:21 |
| Deformative | You could get gnash, but it's shitatic. | 05:21 |
| RushPL | it could play youtube though | 05:22 |
| RushPL | they were optimizing it for the sole purpose :D | 05:22 |
| Deformative | I do not know if it could play youtube on the nokia though. | 05:23 |
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| Deformative | RushPL, so, this is interesting, how will we get gdc on the nokia? I guess we have to cross compile. | 05:23 |
| Deformative | That can be done without the gui. | 05:24 |
| Deformative | So we should be able to do it on our scratchbox installations? | 05:24 |
| RushPL | theoretically : | 05:25 |
| RushPL | :) | 05:25 |
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| Deformative | Email this guy RushPL: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/gdc_nokia_arm-_-gnueabi_46720.html | 05:27 |
| Deformative | If he gives us a .deb it would save us a shit of work. | 05:27 |
| Deformative | Weird the way he is not in X. | 05:27 |
| Deformative | Oh, maybe fulls screen term | 05:27 |
| Deformative | No wait | 05:27 |
| Deformative | Full screen doesn't look like that. | 05:27 |
| Deformative | Maybe different version of the term. | 05:28 |
| Deformative | Oh, it does look like that with menus turned off. | 05:29 |
| Deformative | Neat. | 05:29 |
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| Deformative | Oh. | 05:36 |
| Deformative | Wait, it doesn't work with armel | 05:36 |
| Deformative | Damnittt,. | 05:36 |
| Deformative | We shall make it work. | 05:36 |
| RushPL | wow, mplayer on 770 is really running well | 05:41 |
| RushPL | I could watch fullscreen movies on this thing | 05:41 |
| Deformative | What is CodeSourcery ? | 05:41 |
| Deformative | RushPL: not enough storage. | 05:41 |
| RushPL | Deformative: of course enough, after reencoding. | 05:42 |
| Deformative | Well. | 05:42 |
| RushPL | http://bleb.org/software/770/770-encode.pl | 05:42 |
| RushPL | dunno about CodeSourcery | 05:43 |
| RushPL | I'm encoding Bourne :D | 05:44 |
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| RushPL | night | 06:00 |
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| bedboi | is there any document which describes the maemo way of setting up a deb repository? | 06:35 |
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| [31d1] | on this page there seems to be instructions for putting flash 9 on a 770 | 07:08 |
| [31d1] | but running os20007 | 07:08 |
| [31d1] | would that definitely not work on os2006 is what im wondering | 07:09 |
| [31d1] | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9571 | 07:09 |
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| onion | I wonder what I did now.. all buttons, menus, etc lost their decoration | 08:42 |
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| latzko | hi | 11:40 |
| _Monkey | que tal, latzko | 11:40 |
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| latzko | I have an "warning: implicit declaration of function `strptime'" undel sbox-ARMEL, despite of #include <time.h>. can you help plz why should it be? | 11:43 |
| latzko | char *res = strptime(birthday, "%b %d, %Y", &tm_date); birthday is const gchar* | 11:44 |
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| bearclaw_ | my man strptime on debian #define _XOPEN_SOURCE /* glibc2 needs this */ #include <time.h>says | 12:04 |
| bearclaw_ | oops pasted at the wrong place | 12:04 |
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| * bedboi is away: sleeping | 12:05 | |
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| latzko | bearclaw_, time.h says # ifdef __USE_XOPEN but #define __USE_XOPEN 1 does not work | 12:18 |
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| latzko | neither _XOPEN_SOURCE | 12:20 |
| bearclaw_ | hmm I concurr | 12:21 |
| bearclaw_ | there must be an other define required | 12:23 |
| bearclaw_ | or something #undef the __use_xopen | 12:28 |
| bearclaw_ | /usr/include/features.h has one | 12:28 |
| latzko | yepp #define _GNU_SOURCE solved this | 12:33 |
| latzko | tnx anyway | 12:33 |
| bearclaw_ | stupid man page... :) | 12:44 |
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| lardman | I need to do endianness conversion, and am planning on using something like the following: http://pastebin.com/d3024c51e | 12:59 |
| lardman | the question is, will elements of structures work with this? | 12:59 |
| lardman | i.e. does &somestruct.someelement == &somestruct + offsetof(struct somestruct, someelement) ? | 13:00 |
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| bearclaw_ | I think yes, that's the point of offsetof | 13:01 |
| lardman | so they don't actually match, or rather the first one doesn't work? | 13:01 |
| bearclaw_ | (type*)((char*)&somestruct + offset) more precisely | 13:02 |
| lardman | hmm, I'll need to fix my endianness swapping code then | 13:03 |
| bearclaw_ | lardman: you forgot the break after each case | 13:03 |
| lardman | thanks, was just something I scribbled down quickly | 13:04 |
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| lardman | too much MATLAB too, forgetting C | 13:05 |
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| gpd | anyone know where I can get the correct package for libgtk-x11-2.0? | 13:06 |
| gpd | I did an upgrade of magic:sys and all is not well. | 13:07 |
| gpd | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/26420 | 13:07 |
| gpd | that describes my symptoms - but I don't really want to reflash ! | 13:07 |
| gpd | actually, not my symptoms, but same problem. my only problem is that maemo-mapper won't run and complains: | 13:08 |
| gpd | maemo-mapper: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: undefined symbol: osso_g_scanner_cache_open | 13:08 |
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| lardman | gpd: simply you either need to update the build of maemo-mapper, or downgrade your version of libgtk | 13:16 |
| lardman | gpd: Neither of which will be especially easy I imagine | 13:16 |
| gpd | lardman: any idea where to get the downgraded version of libgtk? | 13:16 |
| gpd | i presume that one comes on the flash image and so isn't in a repository? | 13:17 |
| lardman | well it shoud be in a repo | 13:17 |
| lardman | though I don;t know where | 13:17 |
| gpd | 2.6.10-2.osso30 libgtk2.0-0 <- is that the one you have? | 13:18 |
| lardman | n800? | 13:18 |
| _Monkey | n800 is much better than a desk phone :-) | 13:18 |
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| gpd | yes, n800 | 13:18 |
| lardman | The file is called libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.600.10 | 13:19 |
| gpd | I have that in /usr/lib with size 2404212 Jan 25 2007 | 13:20 |
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| lardman | mine's march 21 14:08 2348888 bytes | 13:21 |
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| gpd | well i can't find the newer version right now :( | 13:24 |
| gpd | guess I'll have to reflash -- aargh | 13:25 |
| lardman | sorry | 13:25 |
| lardman | bearclaw_: Interesting, that code does work (with the addition of the breaks - thanks) | 13:27 |
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| gpd | Software Edition 2007 version 4.2007.26-8 <<-- is that hacker only atm? | 13:32 |
| gpd | or am I just way behind? | 13:32 |
| lardman | hacker edition only afaik | 13:33 |
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| bearclaw_ | the 770 port is hacker only, the 800 version is not | 13:36 |
| bearclaw_ | (if I got that right) | 13:36 |
| gpd | yeah - that 4.2 is the one with skype etc. - i was forgetting | 13:36 |
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| gpd | has anyone written up a reminder list of things to do after a reflash? | 13:40 |
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| bearclaw_ | what is the clean way to update autoconf in scratchbox? | 14:01 |
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| onion | reboot loop.. again | 15:32 |
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| pupnik | btw changing the user password caused no problems here | 16:24 |
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| pupnik | repositories? | 16:33 |
| _Monkey | repositories is, like, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php | 16:33 |
| red-zack | pupnik: anyway to change the username of "user" to another one? | 16:35 |
| red-zack | btw,hi | 16:36 |
| red-zack | :) | 16:36 |
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| pupnik | don't change username | 16:41 |
| pupnik | servus | 16:41 |
| red-zack | k | 16:42 |
| _|Nix|_ | Hmmm ... does anyone know of a place where I can get a libgnutls later than the one from maemo-hackers? I'm trying to build pidgin-2.2.0, and I think 1.0.16 will no longer do :o( | 16:43 |
| _|Nix|_ | i.e., a repo other than m-h.o | 16:43 |
| pupnik | New freesci Sierra Adventure Game interpreter release - http://pupnik.de/freesci.html | 16:45 |
| pupnik | repositories? | 16:45 |
| _Monkey | repositories is http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php | 16:45 |
| _|Nix|_ | gronmayer.com DNE, AFAIK. | 16:47 |
| pupnik | i just used it | 16:47 |
| Molagi | http://www.fortunewatch.com/how-a-millionaires-brain-works/ | 16:48 |
| _|Nix|_ | Oh, there it is ... weird ... firefox hickup ... | 16:48 |
| pupnik | Molagi [i=samurai@a88-112-4-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi | 16:54 |
| Molagi | indeed | 16:54 |
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| pupnik | http://pupnik.de/freesci.html - for Kings Quest, Space Quest, Leisure Suit Larry etc... on your Nokia 770 / 800 internet tablet | 17:01 |
| Molagi | awesome | 17:01 |
| pupnik | just added that for the search engines | 17:01 |
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| bearclaw_ | anyone know where I can buy a cable to connect the bluetooth antenna? I think I must look for a mmcx male to mmcx female cable | 17:18 |
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| bearclaw_ | nobody seems to be manufacturing such a cable | 17:26 |
| Molagi | how can i get superuser privilige? | 17:28 |
| bearclaw_ | install sshd, log in as root | 17:28 |
| bearclaw_ | I think it's the easiest way | 17:28 |
| Molagi | where can i get the sshd? | 17:28 |
| bearclaw_ | its in the packages | 17:29 |
| bearclaw_ | repositories I mean | 17:29 |
| Molagi | ok ill check that out | 17:29 |
| Molagi | ty | 17:29 |
| bearclaw_ | just add http://maemo-hackers.org/apt bora main and http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ bora free in the app manager | 17:30 |
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| Molagi | is it named sshd | 17:33 |
| bearclaw_ | yup | 17:33 |
| bearclaw_ | or openssh | 17:33 |
| _Monkey | i think openssh is to big for embbeded devince (just sbz's opinion) and dropbear is done for that, so ... | 17:33 |
| bearclaw_ | or dropbear... | 17:34 |
| _Monkey | dropbear is a relatively small SSH 2 server and client. http://matt.ucc.asn.au/dropbear/dropbear.html | 17:34 |
| Molagi | hmm unable to install openssh | 17:35 |
| Molagi | i think i got dropbear already | 17:35 |
| tso | to bad there is no "simple" way to start or stop the ssh server :( | 17:37 |
| Molagi | hmm how do i get root | 17:46 |
| Molagi | i got the dropbear installed | 17:47 |
| pupnik | becomeroot? | 17:47 |
| _Monkey | i think becomeroot is is easily obtained from [770/OS2006] http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/mistral/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb or [770/OS2007HE and N800/OS2007] http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb or for a more long winded method http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot | 17:47 |
| bearclaw_ | tso: you can put menu entries pointing to scripts starting and stopping th ssed | 17:47 |
| Molagi | thx | 17:47 |
| tso | maybe so bearclaw_, but it would be nice if it was included ;) | 17:47 |
| pupnik | somebody fix monkey's response there | 17:48 |
| pupnik | or ssh root@localhost | 17:48 |
| bearclaw_ | even the custom cable ordering at http://www.hyperlinktech.com/ doesn't have MMCX female | 17:49 |
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| Molagi | now that i installed becomeroot, am i now the root? | 17:52 |
| Molagi | requested operation requires superuser privilige | 17:53 |
| bearclaw_ | just start becomeroot in a term if i remember well | 17:53 |
| Molagi | whats the command | 17:53 |
| bearclaw_ | becomeroot? | 17:54 |
| _Monkey | i think becomeroot is is easily obtained from [770/OS2006] http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/mistral/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb or [770/OS2007HE and N800/OS2007] http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb or for a more long winded method http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot | 17:54 |
| Molagi | becomeroot not found | 17:54 |
| Molagi | im such a noob with these things | 17:56 |
| Molagi | i only want to try that freeSCI thingy | 17:57 |
| pupnik | :) | 17:57 |
| pupnik | sido gainroot | 17:57 |
| pupnik | the becomeroot help needs to be fixed in monkey | 17:58 |
| pupnik | sudo gainroot in xterm | 17:58 |
| pupnik | and password is rootme | 17:58 |
| pupnik | either that or if you have ssh installed, you should be able to ssh root@localhost and login as root | 17:58 |
| bearclaw_ | game over, all small antennas are rubber duck type, bigger antennas with MMCX connector are too big, and its impossible do get a MMCX male-female cable | 17:58 |
| Molagi | oh thx | 17:58 |
| pupnik | Molagi: eventually i'll get freesci polished enough to go into the repositories, i just have to work harder at it. | 17:59 |
| erstazi | I didn't know mono was so popular with nokia tablet users that even mono's website lists an .install for 770 and n800! | 17:59 |
| Molagi | pupnik ok | 17:59 |
| pupnik | Molagi - scummvm is polished and working well - http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/scummvm_0.10.0-4_armel.deb Monkey Island etc (lucasarts games) | 18:00 |
| erstazi | Molagi: of course, when you get connected through xterm or ssh, change your passwords! | 18:00 |
| erstazi | Molagi: passwd root | 18:00 |
| erstazi | Molagi: then passwd user | 18:00 |
| erstazi | everyone knows that the root's default password is rootme | 18:00 |
| erstazi | ok brb | 18:00 |
| Molagi | heh | 18:01 |
| Molagi | okay | 18:01 |
| Deformative | Best way to become root is to ssh to root@localhost | 18:04 |
| Deformative | :) | 18:04 |
| pupnik | awesome - big family reunion and the restaurant has set up wlan for me | 18:05 |
| pupnik | so everybody will get to play with 770+internet :) | 18:05 |
| [31d1] | sudo -s | 18:07 |
| pupnik | dropbear scp sux :( | 18:14 |
| pupnik | keeps stalling out on me. am i the only one? cp, stall, cp, stall ... | 18:14 |
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| lizhao | hello, I have a question about maemo-icon in debian/control | 18:16 |
| lizhao | anybody can help on this? thanks in advance | 18:17 |
| pupnik | maemowizard? | 18:17 |
| _Monkey | hmmm... maemowizard is a silly script I made to create packages for SDL applications easier | 18:17 |
| * Deformative needs a script to install maemo sdk | 18:18 | |
| Molagi | pupnik where can i get games for scummvm | 18:19 |
| pupnik | http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/daniel_on_go/MaemoWizard03.zip lizhao <- that has an example icon for you | 18:20 |
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| pupnik | Molagi: dunno - stw | 18:20 |
| Molagi | k | 18:20 |
| pupnik | 'abandonware' sites, or maybe lucasarts has released some for download | 18:21 |
| Molagi | hmm okay | 18:22 |
| Molagi | i thought the games were somehow "converted" for scummvm | 18:23 |
| pupnik | no - originals - same with freesci | 18:23 |
| Molagi | ok great | 18:23 |
| lizhao | hi, pupnik, I have icons, the problem is how to embed them into debian/control | 18:24 |
| lizhao | I use: uuencode -m xxx.26x26.png /dev/stdout | 18:24 |
| lizhao | and copy the result into debian/control | 18:24 |
| roxfan | there were some sierra classic collections released recently | 18:24 |
| lizhao | however, seems the icon won't show in application installer | 18:24 |
| roxfan | http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AYH89M SQ 1-5 | 18:25 |
| roxfan | http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00001OWYP ?? | 18:26 |
| erstazi | pupnik: I only use openssh, even though its a tad larger install size, its more effective | 18:26 |
| pupnik | does openssh give you pauses when using scp for large files? | 18:27 |
| pupnik | what is transfer rate to mmc? | 18:27 |
| pupnik | dropbear varies between 0 and 300kB/s | 18:27 |
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| Deformative | Does anyone know what CodeSourcery is exactly? | 18:30 |
| lizhao | hi, pupnik, I just copyed the xb-maemo-icon-26 section from your maemowizard03.zip into my debian/control | 18:30 |
| lizhao | however, failed again | 18:30 |
| suihkulokki | Deformative: a company that works on gcc | 18:35 |
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| m-vo | lizhao: paste your whole debian/control | 18:37 |
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| lizhao | Source: sdcv | 18:38 |
| lizhao | Priority: optional | 18:38 |
| lizhao | Section: user/utils | 18:38 |
| lizhao | Maintainer: Li, Zhao <lizhao@lizhao.net> | 18:38 |
| lizhao | Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), gettext, zlib1g-dev, pkg-config, libglib2.0-dev, libreadline5-dev | libreadline-dev | 18:38 |
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| lizhao | m-vo, sorry | 18:39 |
| lizhao | too long to mess up screen | 18:39 |
| Deformative | suihkulokki: Why does codesource have it's own runtime? | 18:41 |
| Deformative | Other than glibc | 18:41 |
| Deformative | Doesn't that cause some suckage? | 18:41 |
| Deformative | What uses which runtime on the nokia? | 18:41 |
| suihkulokki | runtime? | 18:41 |
| Deformative | Oh wait. | 18:42 |
| suihkulokki | your smoking crack | 18:42 |
| Deformative | Yeah. | 18:42 |
| Deformative | I was thinking of something completely different. | 18:42 |
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| Deformative | I apologize. | 18:42 |
| lizhao | hi, m-vo, I sent email to you | 18:43 |
| m-vo | ok, let's see... | 18:43 |
| * bedboi is back (gone 06:44:05) | 18:49 | |
| RushPL_ | Deformative: what's up? | 18:49 |
| *** RushPL_ is now known as RushPL | 18:49 | |
| Deformative | RushPL: Trying to setup an environment for me to compile in. | 18:50 |
| Deformative | So I can get gdc | 18:50 |
| Deformative | With gdc/gcc, the nokia should be able to self sustain itself. | 18:51 |
| Deformative | Independant of the desktop that is | 18:51 |
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| RushPL | yep, I'd like to have the compile environment too, but I need bluetooth keyboard. The damn virtual keyboard is killing me. | 18:54 |
| Deformative | Yeah. | 18:55 |
| RushPL | Also fuse-gui doesn't want to install because of some python conflict, I wanted to have fuse-ssh. | 18:55 |
| Deformative | Could always write on desktop, compile on nokia | 18:55 |
| Deformative | Heh | 18:55 |
| Deformative | Until we get keyboards | 18:55 |
| [31d1] | just ssh into the nokia | 18:57 |
| Deformative | Yeah. | 19:00 |
| Deformative | That's a good point. | 19:00 |
| Deformative | Are nokia supposed to loose connection when idle for a long time? | 19:00 |
| sp3000 | what kind of lose | 19:01 |
| sp3000 | as in by what indicators | 19:01 |
| Deformative | The icon does not have the antenna anymore. | 19:02 |
| RushPL | I saw some setting for that in the control panel. | 19:03 |
| Deformative | Maybe data call idle time? | 19:05 |
| Deformative | It is currently at 5 minutes | 19:05 |
| sp3000 | more like the corresponding wlan timeout | 19:07 |
| * sp3000 wouldn't expect data call to be indicated by an antenna | 19:07 | |
| * sp3000 isn't familiar with os2006 graphics though | 19:08 | |
| Deformative | Hmm,. | 19:09 |
| Deformative | In cpu transparency, why is qemu not listed/ | 19:09 |
| Deformative | ? | 19:09 |
| Deformative | The tutorial says it should be there. | 19:09 |
| RushPL | damn damn, even the chat has black font on black background. | 19:10 |
| RushPL | are these apps open source? | 19:10 |
| RushPL | I would very like to fix them | 19:10 |
| Deformative | RushPL: I think most are not. | 19:10 |
| bedboi | re | 19:10 |
| Deformative | I would like to fix them as well. | 19:10 |
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| RushPL | Deformative: no kidding, serious? | 19:11 |
| Deformative | The browser, pdf reader, chat, etc I think are not. | 19:11 |
| Deformative | You can get the sources from the nokia site, I already did. | 19:11 |
| Deformative | And the naming is all screwed up. | 19:11 |
| Deformative | So I cannot tell what does what. | 19:11 |
| Deformative | That is why I suggested you and myself did a top down rewrite in D and fully open source. | 19:12 |
| inz | pdf reader is oss | 19:12 |
| Deformative | Oh. | 19:13 |
| Deformative | What about the file browser? | 19:13 |
| Deformative | The pdf viewer is the best working app on it. | 19:13 |
| Deformative | IMO | 19:13 |
| inz | closed, i think | 19:13 |
| Deformative | It's great because I have so many pdf books. | 19:14 |
| Deformative | The browser renderer is good. | 19:14 |
| Deformative | The browser itself, is not | 19:14 |
| inz | which renderer | 19:14 |
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| Deformative | It is opera, no? | 19:14 |
| RushPL | there's always that minimo, but the level of integration is poor. | 19:14 |
| Deformative | Whatever it is, it works well. | 19:14 |
| RushPL | and it's slower I think. | 19:14 |
| RushPL | (it has Gecko 2.0) | 19:15 |
| Deformative | Well. | 19:15 |
| * Deformative shrugs. | 19:15 | |
| Deformative | Rendering engines are super boring to make. | 19:15 |
| inz | you can install microb (gecko) on newest n800 sw | 19:16 |
| Deformative | We are both on 770 | 19:16 |
| inz | but ope | 19:16 |
| inz | oops | 19:16 |
| Deformative | RushPL: once I get gdc/gcc working, I am going to start rewriting things with or without you. :P | 19:16 |
| Deformative | But gdc is rumored not to work on armel | 19:17 |
| Deformative | :( | 19:17 |
| bedboi | Deformative: are you serious about D, i mean is it consolidated an robust? | 19:17 |
| Deformative | bedboi: I program almost exclusively in D because I like it so much better than the rest. | 19:17 |
| RushPL | Deformative: I'm not decided for any bigger commitment yet, most of the things work just fine but I'm getting more and more pissed so it may change. :) | 19:18 |
| bedboi | are there bindings for glib, gtk, Hildon, blabla | 19:18 |
| bedboi | ? | 19:18 |
| Deformative | bedboi: C bindings are simple in D. | 19:18 |
| Deformative | There is a generator that works perfectly. | 19:18 |
| Deformative | Then I could go ahead and make a wrapper or whatever. | 19:19 |
| bedboi | what about the cleanness of the assembly? | 19:19 |
| bedboi | portability, blabla | 19:20 |
| Deformative | D's abi is not frozen yet. | 19:20 |
| Deformative | But it is very good. | 19:20 |
| Deformative | Walter has extensive experience from his C/C++ compilers | 19:20 |
| Deformative | It is all the work of one man, so it is very well designed, unlike huge team projects. | 19:20 |
| m-vo | lizhao, the base64 encoding in your debian/control is corrupted. | 19:20 |
| m-vo | There is a dubios '+' at the end of line 8, for example | 19:21 |
| Deformative | Hmm, I don't understand how to get cpu transparency detected in scratchbox | 19:22 |
| bedboi | Deformative: what you are saying about huge team projects is not always true. | 19:22 |
| lizhao | hi, m-vo, are you talking about: | 19:22 |
| lizhao | there are duplicated | 19:22 |
| bedboi | it is just a common side effect | 19:22 |
| lizhao | sSv6wkFOTIAM2HOKAECf/lr9ug90EhDx4B63/EkwDFZx9d1u7D0JvgcAcOJz+ | 19:22 |
| lizhao | but it is copyed from other package | 19:23 |
| lizhao | I also tried to copy from maemo example | 19:23 |
| Deformative | bedboi: it is often true | 19:23 |
| Deformative | GCC is a good example. | 19:23 |
| lizhao | plz ignore "there are duplicated " | 19:23 |
| Deformative | But | 19:24 |
| Deformative | The d frontend does work on gcc | 19:24 |
| RushPL | Deformative: so you want to do everything froms scratch? | 19:24 |
| Deformative | So whatever | 19:24 |
| Deformative | RushPL: No | 19:24 |
| Deformative | Top down | 19:24 |
| Deformative | Not bottom up | 19:24 |
| Deformative | That way it continues to be usable as we go. | 19:24 |
| lizhao | BTW: m-vo, how to check whether the section is corrupted? | 19:24 |
| m-vo | What do you mean? Which section? | 19:25 |
| bedboi | Deformative: can you be low level in D? | 19:25 |
| m-vo | Ahh, the "Maemo-Icon-26" field? | 19:25 |
| Deformative | bedboi: of course | 19:25 |
| bedboi | i mean, C is good because you can write whatever you want. | 19:25 |
| Deformative | You can do anything you want in D. | 19:25 |
| bedboi | on whatever platform | 19:25 |
| Deformative | There exists a purely D runtime even. | 19:25 |
| Deformative | There have been a few D kernels | 19:26 |
| Deformative | Some hardware drivers | 19:26 |
| m-vo | I tried to decode it using "base64-decode" and it gave me some warnings and produced a corrupted PNG file. | 19:26 |
| bedboi | Deformative: you have also C++ kernels. | 19:26 |
| Deformative | bedboi: your point? | 19:26 |
| bedboi | Deformative: the fact is how they work. how the code performs | 19:27 |
| Deformative | Your words are not making sense to me. | 19:28 |
| Deformative | RushPL? | 19:28 |
| RushPL | don't ask me :P | 19:28 |
| Deformative | Hehe. | 19:29 |
| bedboi | Deformative: all new languages tends to declare as "the best ever" | 19:29 |
| Deformative | bedboi: Well then try it. | 19:30 |
| bedboi | or something like that, they tend also to say they are the fastest in the world (even java did it!!!!) | 19:30 |
| Deformative | Java's VM is reasonably fast. | 19:30 |
| Deformative | I wouldn't use it. | 19:30 |
| Deformative | But it's not that slow. | 19:30 |
| m-vo | lizhao, if you just want some icon for testing, you can use the one from http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/packaging.html | 19:31 |
| bedboi | it is hell slow, trying to do something low level | 19:31 |
| RushPL | bedboi: but all those languages tend to completely disregard C. | 19:31 |
| Deformative | But in my experience, D is very fast. | 19:31 |
| Deformative | Speed is very difficult to measure. | 19:32 |
| bedboi | yep itis. | 19:32 |
| m-vo | I hear D doesn't have closures. True? | 19:32 |
| Deformative | bedboi: D is compiled to native code. | 19:32 |
| lizhao | oh, m-vo, I am trying the codes in the page you gave | 19:32 |
| lizhao | hope it works | 19:32 |
| Deformative | bedboi: Which often implies faster code, but many disagree with that statement. | 19:32 |
| bedboi | Deformative: btw, you can benchmark some simple applications and see if at least they are comparable (not orders of magnitude difference) | 19:32 |
| Molagi | what program do i need to unpack .tgz? | 19:33 |
| m-vo | Note that in debian/control you need to use "XB-Maemo-Icon-26", not "Maemo-Icon-26" as given in the AM docs. | 19:33 |
| Deformative | bedboi: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/sandbox/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all | 19:33 |
| Deformative | bedboi: Pre-1.0 D was the #1 on that list. | 19:33 |
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| Deformative | But D's speed decreased very slightly after 1.0 | 19:34 |
| Deformative | Still damn fast. | 19:34 |
| m-vo | speed is not the problem for most of the code, correctness and maintainability are. | 19:34 |
| Deformative | m-vo: agreed | 19:34 |
| bedboi | m-vo: it does depend on what you are writing. | 19:34 |
| Deformative | m-vo: but it doesn't hurt | 19:35 |
| Deformative | :) | 19:35 |
| Deformative | Speed is always a good plus. | 19:35 |
| bedboi | if you are writing high level applications it is quite true (quite) | 19:35 |
| lizhao | hi, m-vo, it does not work | 19:35 |
| RushPL | I did some pure computational speed algorithmic job in D and compared it to C. The GC proved to be quite a burden, but you can easily disable it. Without GC it managed almost as well as C. | 19:35 |
| lizhao | actually, I tried several samples in maemo webpages | 19:35 |
| lizhao | any further idea about what I should check? | 19:35 |
| Deformative | m-vo: Do you mean delegates? | 19:36 |
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| m-vo | Deformative, languages in the C family sacrifice expressiveness in the name of speed. From what I hear, D doesn't, which is nice. | 19:36 |
| Deformative | m-vo: D does whatever the hell walter feels like. | 19:36 |
| Deformative | He is our bright(haha) dictator whom we all love. :P | 19:37 |
| m-vo | Deformative, no, nested functions where the life-time of the inner function can exceed that of the outer function and the inner function can still refer to variables of the outer function. | 19:37 |
| Deformative | We have nested functions, and we have nested function pointers. | 19:38 |
| Deformative | nested function pointer = delegate | 19:38 |
| m-vo | "nested function pointers"? How can you nest values? | 19:38 |
| Deformative | No, we have pointers to nested functions. | 19:38 |
| m-vo | Ahh, of course. | 19:39 |
| Deformative | And pointers to object methods | 19:39 |
| Deformative | I don't know about closures though, I have never looked into something like that. | 19:39 |
| Deformative | Well, maybe I have | 19:39 |
| Deformative | But I don't quite understand what you mean | 19:39 |
| Deformative | Maybe RushPL does | 19:39 |
| Molagi | how can i unpack a .tgz file? | 19:40 |
| ch4os_ | tar xvpzf | 19:40 |
| m-vo | Deformative, can you read Scheme? | 19:40 |
| m-vo | I could give a very simple example. | 19:40 |
| Molagi | mmmok | 19:40 |
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| Deformative | I can read very basic scheme | 19:41 |
| Molagi | so if i want to unpack like test.tgz i write tar xvpzf test.tgz? | 19:41 |
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| ch4os_ | Molagi: yes | 19:41 |
| Deformative | And I can read basic erlang, I am on chaper 5 of erlang if I remember correctly | 19:41 |
| Molagi | ok thanks | 19:41 |
| ch4os_ | tgz -> tar.gz | 19:42 |
| m-vo | Ok! I don't know Erlang, so let's try Scheme. | 19:42 |
| Deformative | m-vo: I know of a person making a functional library for functional programming in D. | 19:42 |
| Deformative | m-vo: I know who could surely answer your questions. | 19:43 |
| Deformative | If you wish to join #D there is downs and cracki | 19:43 |
| Deformative | cracki is a lisp fanatic | 19:43 |
| Deformative | And downs does functional programming in D | 19:43 |
| m-vo | Deformative, this is my source: http://www.hans-eric.com/2007/09/11/d-doesnt-have-real-closures/ | 19:43 |
| m-vo | Ok, here is the example: | 19:43 |
| m-vo | (define (make-adder n) (lambda (x) (+ x n))) | 19:43 |
| m-vo | (define add-3 (make-adder 3)) | 19:43 |
| m-vo | (add-3 5) | 19:44 |
| m-vo | => 8 | 19:44 |
| m-vo | add-3 can still safely refer to the 'n' parameter of make-adder although make-adder has long finished. | 19:44 |
| Deformative | half-and-half | 19:44 |
| Deformative | [12:44] <downs> D has dynamic closures by default | 19:44 |
| Deformative | [12:44] <downs> that is, closures that are valid while their context is valid | 19:44 |
| Deformative | [12:44] <downs> so you can't return them | 19:44 |
| Deformative | or you can use bind or stack manip to turn them into full closures. | 19:45 |
| m-vo | 'dynamic closures' seems just to be an euphemism for 'no closures, only nested functions' | 19:45 |
| * Deformative shrugs | 19:46 | |
| Deformative | Better than C++ | 19:46 |
| Deformative | I don't know how closures would perform in native rather than interpereted code. | 19:47 |
| m-vo | well, whatever, just like the link I posted, I don't see any reason for not offering 'real' closures by default. It's not that they are some little understood, obscure language feature with only fringe use cases. | 19:48 |
| RushPL | Ayyy, my nokia has crashed about 3 times this day. | 19:48 |
| Molagi | hmm no such file or directory | 19:48 |
| Molagi | damn | 19:48 |
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| m-vo | If you don't have closures in the language, you have to fake them manually, which is going to be slower (and painful). | 19:48 |
| m-vo | Look at all the "data" parameters of your typical C callback. | 19:49 |
| Deformative | 12:48] <downs> not true | 19:49 |
| Deformative | [12:48] <miller[]> they still access the scope | 19:49 |
| Deformative | [12:48] <downs> the nested functions can access their surrounding function. | 19:49 |
| Deformative | [12:48] <downs> that's what I meant by "half a | 19:49 |
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| Deformative | RushPL: mine has never crashed yet | 19:49 |
| Deformative | RushPL: the browser is the only thing to crash thus far. | 19:49 |
| m-vo | yeah, that's what "nested" means: being able to access the surrounding scope. If you can't do that, you are not nested. :-) | 19:50 |
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| m-vo | Anyway, I rest my case. I think I like D anyway. | 19:51 |
| Deformative | :) | 19:51 |
| bedboi | the thing that leaves me skeptic about "new" languages is the lack of profiling, debugging, blablabla applications | 19:51 |
| Deformative | bedboi: D is just a frontend. | 19:52 |
| Deformative | The D backends are VERY mature. | 19:52 |
| bedboi | vala is something i `could` like, it generates a C code | 19:52 |
| bedboi | Deformative: what you mean by frontend? | 19:52 |
| Deformative | There is a D to C compiler | 19:53 |
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| Deformative | Uh, it is compiler engineering, google compiler frontend/backend to learn more, but basically, you know how gcc can compile multiple languages on the same compiler backend? | 19:53 |
| Deformative | m-vo: | 19:54 |
| Deformative | [12:52] <cracki> tell him that D still uses a stack and environment frames aren't gc'd at all | 19:54 |
| Deformative | [12:52] <cracki> that'll tell him enough to know about delegate literals | 19:54 |
| Deformative | [12:52] <cracki> (maybe) | 19:54 |
| Deformative | bedboi: Basically, we have an awesome frontend that Walter bright has made, it is designed for his own backend that he created for his C/C++ compilers, but it also works on GCC and is being proted to LLVM as well. | 19:54 |
| bedboi | ah cool | 19:55 |
| bedboi | you are telling me you can generate intermediate C? | 19:55 |
| Deformative | bedboi: GregorR made a C generator, yes. | 19:56 |
| bedboi | i'm going to take what's the quality of the C code | 19:57 |
| bedboi | i mean if it is understandable | 19:57 |
| Deformative | The C compiler is unrelated. | 19:58 |
| Deformative | http://dsource.org/projects/tdc | 19:59 |
| Deformative | http://dsource.org/projects/llvmdc | 19:59 |
| Deformative | Those are the two compilers that are less recognized. | 19:59 |
| Deformative | The two MAIN compilers are DMD and gdc | 19:59 |
| m-vo | Deformative, thanks. You can have a normal stack with closures, of course. When a variable needs to be in the closure for a nested function, you can either copy its value (when the 'variable' is constant, which is quite often the case when one adopts a more functional programming style which happens quite naturally once you have closures), or you need to store the variable in the heap. | 19:59 |
| bedboi | http://dsource.org/projects/tdc/wiki/ExampleConversions | 20:00 |
| bedboi | lol | 20:00 |
| m-vo | The need to move away from a regular stack ans to start GCing activation frames comes when you have first class continuations. | 20:00 |
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| bedboi | man that's a huge C code for a so simple function | 20:00 |
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| Deformative | bedboi: well, I do not know, GregorR made it, | 20:01 |
| Deformative | It is not official | 20:01 |
| Deformative | bedboi: I imagine that with greater code segments the difference ratio is much smaller. | 20:01 |
| lizhao | must leave now, thanks, m-vo | 20:02 |
| bedboi | Vala generates very clean C | 20:02 |
| m-vo | lizhao, did it work? | 20:02 |
| bedboi | but it is still very buggy | 20:02 |
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| Deformative | http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/gdc_nokia_arm-_-gnueabi_46720.html I wonder if that guy from nokia managed to get gdc on armel | 20:03 |
| lardman | hmm, lots of assembler remarks and warnings, and a compiled vorbisdec.o dsptask :) | 20:03 |
| DaniloCesar | Where is python-sqlite module on scrachbox??? | 20:06 |
| TPC | i dont think many people in history can claim to having used irc in the bath | 20:14 |
| TPC | im doing it right now ;) | 20:14 |
| TPC | with waterproof protective casing that fits the N800 | 20:14 |
| bedboi | in the bath? | 20:15 |
| RushPL | rotfl | 20:15 |
| bedboi | you mean under the shower? | 20:15 |
| bedboi | i always use my laptop when in bath | 20:15 |
| `0660 | you don't take risks do you? :) | 20:15 |
| RushPL | and I'm swimming in the sea, just 50m beneath the surface, cool, huh? | 20:15 |
| RushPL | I have an AP on a bouy so that wifi reaches underwater. | 20:16 |
| TPC | no, i mean the bath | 20:17 |
| bedboi | TPC: i guess it is quite common. | 20:18 |
| bedboi | at least for me. | 20:18 |
| bedboi | i always bring my laptop with myself | 20:18 |
| RushPL | bedboi: you coding in bath too? | 20:18 |
| bedboi | of course | 20:18 |
| TPC | when in the shower im too busy cleaning myself for irc | 20:18 |
| RushPL | bedboi: that's right, bugs do not like water, it's an obvious place to code. :P | 20:19 |
| TPC | what are you using to protect it from the water / humid air? | 20:19 |
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| tso | hmm, i cant stop thinking about a keyboard made for folding that also can be attached to the N800 so that it would act as a screen cover when folded up | 20:33 |
| Deformative | Hello. | 20:42 |
| Deformative | Does anyone know how to get qemu working with scratchbox? | 20:42 |
| Deformative | The tutorial doesn't explain. | 20:42 |
| Deformative | All it says for cpu transparency is none. | 20:42 |
| suihkulokki | Deformative: you did not install the scratchbox-cputransparency-devkit package | 20:45 |
| m-vo | Deformative, without knowing for sure, when you use sb-menu, I think you need to select the "cputransp" devkit and then it will ask you for the version of qemu to use. | 20:45 |
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| Deformative | Ah. | 20:48 |
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| Deformative | Hmm. | 20:56 |
| Deformative | What cpu do I use? | 20:56 |
| Deformative | arm-cvs arm-0.82 arm-7,0 ? | 20:56 |
| Deformative | What? | 20:56 |
| zuh | arm-0.8.2-sb2 has been the most useful one for me | 20:57 |
| Deformative | Thanks | 21:01 |
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| bearclaw_ | is it possible to have iwconfig on the 770? | 21:18 |
| tso | i think i have seen a package but do not recall what repo | 21:22 |
| bearclaw_ | repository? | 21:22 |
| _Monkey | i guess repository is http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php | 21:22 |
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| bearclaw_ | found it | 21:35 |
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| bearclaw_ | is ad-hoc mode supported? | 21:36 |
| tso | dont know if the 770 can initate it, but yes, it can do link-local connections. i have done so myself, by accident :P | 21:39 |
| bearclaw_ | and the other device was visible with iwlist scan? | 21:40 |
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| tso | yes | 21:43 |
| tso | err, it showed up in the connection manager list :) | 21:43 |
| bearclaw_ | should be the same :) | 21:43 |
| bearclaw_ | im trying to connect a gumstix with my 770 in wifi ad-hoc | 21:44 |
| tso | the diff that i see was that link-local connections where shown by a black "antenna" | 21:44 |
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| alterego | Woo, I just finished writing a nice little script that toggles bluetooth on/off, handle when added to the cpu/memory graph applet. | 21:57 |
| alterego | It even toggles the label on for the menu item :) | 21:57 |
| alterego | Took me about an hour to write though, bit rusty at the old shell scripting .. | 21:58 |
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| tso | interesting. if i do not enter a password in the claw-mail settings, it works fine. but if i enter one, i get a timeout when checking mail. think ill stick to the default one... | 22:01 |
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| RushPL | Deformative: sshfs works nicely | 22:20 |
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| DaniloCesar | I'm having problems with my .install file. Users can only see the file. I think that it's a apache issue. | 22:39 |
| DaniloCesar | They are not downloading the file, but seeing... I think that some .htaccess changes will fix this, but I don't know what changes I need to do | 22:40 |
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| Deformative | How do I start dropbear ssh server? | 22:43 |
| [31d1] | by uninstalling dropbear and installing openssh? | 22:49 |
| Deformative | Bleh. | 22:50 |
| Deformative | I just used dropbear because it is in the repo./ | 22:51 |
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| RushPL | Deformative: openssh is too in the repo. Just some other one. | 22:52 |
| RushPL | repositories? | 22:53 |
| _Monkey | repositories is http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php | 22:53 |
| Deformative | Bleh. | 22:53 |
| RushPL | I wonder why there isn't a single repo. | 22:53 |
| sp3000 | there is but it's somehow not been the path of least resistance | 22:54 |
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| Deformative | Searching ssh only comes up with dropbear | 23:02 |
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| TPC | openssh is in the repo, at least it was for me | 23:03 |
| Deformative | Which one? | 23:03 |
| TPC | maybe I added some weird one without realizing it, but I don't think so | 23:03 |
| TPC | I think it only shows up in red pill mode | 23:04 |
| Deformative | How do I go into red pill mode? | 23:04 |
| TPC | instructions are on the maemo.org wiki | 23:04 |
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| Deformative | Wow. | 23:07 |
| Deformative | That's so weird. | 23:07 |
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| Deformative | Bleh | 23:11 |
| Deformative | Openssh doesn't support ssh root@localhost like dropbear does? | 23:11 |
| [31d1] | it should | 23:12 |
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| Deformative | Oh | 23:12 |
| Deformative | I had to get rid of the old .ssh from dropbear | 23:12 |
| [31d1] | i turned off root login in ssh_config after i set up etc/sudoers | 23:13 |
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| Pio | any maemo-mappers know of decent programs to create poi databases? | 23:29 |
| Pio | that vb Poi_loader app isn't working out for me.. | 23:29 |
| Deformative | I need to figure out how to program the DSP | 23:30 |
| Pio | i found some guy's perl script which im playing with now, but its not working either.. | 23:30 |
| Deformative | heh | 23:30 |
| Deformative | Looks like fun. | 23:30 |
| Deformative | I am getting much more than I expected out of this cool little device. | 23:31 |
| roxfan | aren't there specs? | 23:32 |
| Deformative | Be back in a few hours. | 23:34 |
| Deformative | o/ | 23:34 |
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