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| gidget | i cannot receive inbound gizmo calls on the 770, but a windows box on the same LAN receives them fine. whats up with that? | 00:47 |
|---|---|---|
| gidget | cant find anything concerning this n gizmo forums or ittalk forums | 00:48 |
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| gidget | i have tried with the 770 in dmz too, even though the win box doesn't require it | 00:50 |
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| fish_ | re | 02:05 |
| pupnik | mo | 02:06 |
| jumpula | ss | 02:12 |
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| erstazi | dd | 02:18 |
| erstazi | remoss | 02:18 |
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| jumpula | shoul've said 'se' | 02:21 |
| erstazi | heh | 02:21 |
| jumpula | but only analogy i could came up with was less, and i was hoping for someone to fill in 'le' | 02:21 |
| erstazi | remossle? heh | 02:22 |
| erstazi | oh | 02:22 |
| jumpula | and then remosslestmo | 02:22 |
| erstazi | heh | 02:23 |
| jumpula | (i have no life) | 02:23 |
| erstazi | its ok | 02:23 |
| erstazi | its a wednesday night here and I am very exhausted | 02:23 |
| jumpula | hm, i think i'll go to bed | 02:24 |
| jumpula | easier to wake up tomorrow | 02:24 |
| erstazi | jumpula: night | 02:26 |
| jumpula | night | 02:28 |
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| MCCob | hello | 02:42 |
| MCCob | anyone have a valid repository for tapioca ? or deb file ? | 02:42 |
| soolek | i couldn't find any maemo deb install file either | 02:43 |
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| bmk789 | is there a guide to running maemo in a VM to try it out? | 02:53 |
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| unique311 | whose the brazilian? | 03:30 |
| unique311 | http://www.trendygadget.com/2007/08/18/brazilians-make-an-iphone-interface-for-nokia-n800/ | 03:30 |
| mmiller | I'll take my N800 over a iphone any day. | 03:31 |
| unique311 | not sure about that story | 03:32 |
| unique311 | i want an iphone now. | 03:32 |
| unique311 | software unlock | 03:32 |
| unique311 | gotta be a good thing. | 03:33 |
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| mmiller | Hope you like it when the battery goes out on it.. | 03:33 |
| mmiller | You have to replace the hole phone.. | 03:33 |
| unique311 | wow | 03:34 |
| unique311 | you joking? | 03:34 |
| unique311 | i replaced my ipod battery | 03:36 |
| unique311 | mini | 03:36 |
| unique311 | wasn't hard to do at all. | 03:36 |
| unique311 | pretty sure the iphone is not that difficult | 03:36 |
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| pupnik | great new antiwar.com radio interviews | 04:28 |
| pupnik | oops wrong channel | 04:28 |
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| dolske | Hrm. I don't seem to be able to update to microb 0.0.8-4. | 04:56 |
| dolske | Application packages missing: maemo-browser-dialogs (>= 0.3.18) and -widgets (>= 0.4.15). | 04:57 |
| dolske | timelE61i: ? | 04:58 |
| pupnik | http://dolske.net/ | 05:14 |
| pupnik | is that your site? | 05:14 |
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| dolske | yep. | 05:17 |
| pupnik | good site | 05:18 |
| pupnik | find the packages and install manually and give feedback | 05:22 |
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| dolske | good site? It's just a placeholder page! :) | 05:25 |
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| [1]a-l-p-h-a | where's the 2007 hackers edition how-to? | 05:40 |
| pupnik | dolske: yeah but the blinking cursor is cool | 05:41 |
| pupnik | just because your nickname is a pain in the ass to type doesn't mean you're ready for 2007he | 05:42 |
| dolske | heh | 05:43 |
| [1]a-l-p-h-a | thanks. :) | 05:43 |
| pupnik | the answer is i don't know of a howto | 05:44 |
| [1]a-l-p-h-a | well, I'm looking for the "flasher" app... I have flashergui, not flasher. | 05:45 |
| pupnik | flash the image and try it out | 05:45 |
| pupnik | flasher? | 05:46 |
| _Monkey | flasher is probably available from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com | 05:46 |
| * pupnik gives _Monkey a kupo nut | 05:47 | |
| [1]a-l-p-h-a | okay, so no win32 flasher? | 05:48 |
| pupnik | i don't know | 05:49 |
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| ysss | kupo nut sounds familiar.. | 05:56 |
| ysss | is it from Final Fantasy series? | 05:56 |
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| pupnik | yeah | 05:56 |
| pupnik | ysss: i have ported playstation emulator to the nokia | 05:57 |
| ysss | wow | 05:58 |
| ysss | how does it run? | 05:58 |
| pupnik | 1fps on average | 05:58 |
| pupnik | but it will be possible to get 10-20fps | 05:59 |
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| ysss | lol | 06:00 |
| pupnik | ysss: are you interested in emulation and have some coding experience? | 06:00 |
| ysss | 15fps should be ok | 06:00 |
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| ysss | I've unuseful coding experience, but have a heavy stock of emulation uhm assets.. | 06:01 |
| pupnik | ok, there are a lot of arm emulators from the gp2x scene that could work on the nokias | 06:02 |
| [1]a-l-p-h-a | I made the mistake of connecting the mail program connect to gmail. anyone know how to clear all emails easily | 06:02 |
| [1]a-l-p-h-a | ? | 06:02 |
| pupnik | nobody has managed to port one yet | 06:02 |
| ysss | pupnik: have you tried booting n800 from SD? Is it true that it behaves badly w/ the AC adapter? | 06:02 |
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| pupnik | i only have 770 - and i boot from mmc and only have occasional strangeness | 06:02 |
| ysss | pupnik: yes, I have a gp2x so I never looked for emulation on other platform since the gp2x does it so nicely. ScummVM on n800 is quite awesome though. | 06:03 |
| ysss | pupnik: what strangeness did you find and how often? | 06:03 |
| pupnik | on... | 06:04 |
| pupnik | very seldom - | 06:04 |
| pupnik | ysss: we need those gp2x emus | 06:04 |
| pupnik | ysss: is there a software emulator for gp2x? | 06:04 |
| pupnik | i also have some unreleased ports if you want to help test | 06:05 |
| ysss | pupnik: I didn't participate in gp2x developments, so I don't know. | 06:06 |
| ysss | pupnik: sure I'll test as long as it has little risk on my n800, because i use it daily. | 06:06 |
| pupnik | well those guys did great work | 06:06 |
| pupnik | nobody on planet earth is working to port gp2x emus to nokia | 06:07 |
| ysss | Yeah, it's the best portable emulation platform i've seen yet. i don't get why they didn't upgrade the CPU on their new machine though. | 06:07 |
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| pupnik | yeah, someone on the forums says there is a project to do a next-gen gp2x | 06:08 |
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| pupnik | ysss: this would be good: http://pupnik.de/Nokia970med4.png | 06:11 |
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| unique311 | pupnik, | 06:11 |
| _Monkey | pupnik, is there a nice tutorial for packaing for the N800 | 06:11 |
| unique311 | I did tell you i got neopop to work fullscreen, but i couldn't get controls to work on it. | 06:12 |
| pupnik | what for this neopop? | 06:12 |
| unique311 | not sure but i think it was the gp2x source i modified to get it to work on the N800 | 06:12 |
| unique311 | its neogeo | 06:12 |
| unique311 | the handheld | 06:12 |
| unique311 | like a gameboy | 06:12 |
| pupnik | nice | 06:12 |
| erstazi | unique311: howdy, long time no see | 06:13 |
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| unique311 | been working on shirt designs | 06:13 |
| erstazi | _Monkey: forget pupnik, | 06:13 |
| _Monkey | erstazi: I forgot pupnik, | 06:13 |
| pupnik | you do so much stuff unique311 - why not get a cheap website? | 06:13 |
| ysss | pupnik: nifty. I wish the IT gets a slide-out keyboard though. One w/ buldging keys like the Treo. | 06:13 |
| unique311 | and going thru the worst toothache ever right now. | 06:13 |
| pupnik | sorry | 06:13 |
| erstazi | unique311: put some jack daniels on it, it will take the pain away | 06:13 |
| unique311 | i was looking for some liquor.. | 06:14 |
| ysss | neogeo pocket | 06:14 |
| pupnik | no dentist | 06:14 |
| unique311 | none in the house. | 06:14 |
| erstazi | and I am not saying that because I am an alcoholic... I just know <EG> | 06:14 |
| unique311 | the pain is gone. | 06:14 |
| unique311 | its swollen. | 06:14 |
| erstazi | unique311: what do you have? how much do you weight? niteqwik will work | 06:14 |
| unique311 | i had a freaking milkyway | 06:14 |
| ysss | unique311: what do u do with the shirt designs? | 06:14 |
| unique311 | i have some descent designs. | 06:15 |
| pupnik | ysss: http:/pupnik.de/aliens_nokia_onscreenbuttons.jpg | 06:15 |
| pupnik | decent | 06:15 |
| unique311 | yeah | 06:16 |
| unique311 | pupnik if you want the source i modified for fullscreen, i can't up it for you.. | 06:17 |
| ysss | submit your less-than-decent ones to shirts.woot.com heh | 06:17 |
| unique311 | speed is really fast | 06:17 |
| ysss | pupnik: nice | 06:17 |
| pupnik | no more projects for me unique311 | 06:17 |
| pupnik | i have to finish stuff | 06:18 |
| unique311 | cool | 06:18 |
| unique311 | waiting on this guy to put out the faint release fullscreen. | 06:18 |
| erstazi | I have too many projects myself | 06:18 |
| pupnik | the thing that is burning a hole in my brain is the snes emu | 06:19 |
| pupnik | that's doable | 06:20 |
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| pupnik | and those rpgs would be workable with the bad d-pad | 06:20 |
| unique311 | someone on ITT is trying to get picodrive going. | 06:21 |
| unique311 | isn't that ur project | 06:21 |
| pupnik | cool i missed that - under gaming or development? | 06:21 |
| pupnik | the only picodrive work i did was with you :) | 06:21 |
| erstazi | how strange, the whole day, I haven't even touched my 770 | 06:22 |
| erstazi | thats a first | 06:22 |
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| pupnik | anyway picodrive will not be much good | 06:22 |
| pupnik | the games all are twitchware - fast response games | 06:23 |
| pupnik | except for a couple of rpgs (not very good) | 06:23 |
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| unique311 | for gaming on the N800 | 06:24 |
| unique311 | i think i'm addicted to solitaire | 06:25 |
| ysss | I wish for a decent poker game for the IT | 06:25 |
| unique311 | gambler | 06:25 |
| unique311 | lots of flash games that provide that | 06:25 |
| ysss | lol | 06:25 |
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| ysss | horrible adware last time i checked. | 06:26 |
| unique311 | i did a flash package | 06:26 |
| ysss | then again, i've no idea how to effectively search for flash content. | 06:26 |
| unique311 | hold on | 06:26 |
| ysss | brilliant | 06:26 |
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| unique311 | http://www.divshare.com/download/1503325-ae5 | 06:27 |
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| unique311 | has some good vegas games.. | 06:27 |
| fer__ | hi | 06:27 |
| _Monkey | salut, fer__ | 06:27 |
| fer__ | anyone knws if it's possible to use a bluetooth headset with a n800? | 06:27 |
| ysss | THANK YOU :D (the addict gambler in me just spoke) | 06:28 |
| fer__ | (I mean, to use voip/SIP/Skype) | 06:28 |
| unique311 | you can treak it up for your needs. | 06:28 |
| erstazi | ysss: I like Texas Hold'em myself (: | 06:29 |
| ysss | unique311: i've never used flash from disk\ram. Do you launch it from file manager or point the browser to it? | 06:29 |
| erstazi | fer__: I have heard of people talking about it | 06:29 |
| ysss | erstazi: yesssssss... me tooooooo | 06:29 |
| unique311 | place it in mmc | 06:29 |
| unique311 | and run the index.html | 06:29 |
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| unique311 | bookmark it | 06:29 |
| unique311 | extract | 06:30 |
| unique311 | place Mflash folder in mmc1 or mmc2 | 06:30 |
| ysss | fer__: i've read that they can pair, but there's no bluetooth headset profile yet. It seems right now the answer is "not yet". | 06:30 |
| unique311 | run index.html | 06:30 |
| ysss | unique311: nice | 06:30 |
| unique311 | and bookmark it | 06:31 |
| unique311 | i sucked at html. | 06:31 |
| unique311 | used dreamweaver, so it worked out ok i guess | 06:31 |
| ysss | unique311: i was gonna say "Naw, it looks alright" or something like that, but my crappy connection is still not done downloading the thing :] | 06:32 |
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| unique311 | ysss, 770 or 800? | 06:33 |
| unique311 | might not play well with the 770...pupnik's reviews wasn't that good. | 06:34 |
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| pupnik | i what huh | 06:37 |
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| unique311 | remember the flash package i made | 06:37 |
| pupnik | oh that was awesome | 06:37 |
| unique311 | you gave it a run, and it didn't play well with the 770 | 06:37 |
| pupnik | but a lot of them were too slow on the 770 | 06:37 |
| unique311 | ok | 06:37 |
| erstazi | ok,sleep time, everyone have a good night | 06:38 |
| pupnik | cheera | 06:38 |
| unique311 | was warning ysss if he owns a 770 | 06:38 |
| unique311 | later erstazi | 06:38 |
| pupnik | unique311: that's going to be a huge gaming thing for the n800 and the next tablet | 06:38 |
| ysss__ | nite erstazi | 06:39 |
| ysss__ | unique311: i got disconnected | 06:39 |
| pupnik | unique311: are they open source? can you distribute the package on a website? | 06:39 |
| pupnik | divshare is not enough | 06:39 |
| ysss__ | the karma gods heard me bitch about my connection and instantly struck my dsl down. | 06:39 |
| pupnik | unique311: i spend 99 cents a month for my site -- if you want it shouldn't be much more expensive | 06:40 |
| unique311 | i had webhosting. | 06:41 |
| pupnik | i am not giving advice, but i think maybe some of the stuff you've done isn't getting enough attention | 06:41 |
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| ysss__ | that's a good non-advice | 06:42 |
| fer__ | ysss__, thanks for the info. | 06:42 |
| unique311 | i planned on tweaking the flash package and then adding it to the garage if they would let me. | 06:42 |
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| unique311 | but never got to it. | 06:42 |
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| Wiredless | anyone know what repositoru has the needed lids for UKMP? | 06:43 |
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| unique311 | anyone using a wiimote with the device? | 06:50 |
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| ysss__ | not me, i don't use my n800 for twitch gaming | 07:05 |
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| timelyx | dolske: um | 07:10 |
| dolske | ? | 07:11 |
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| pupnik | nokia tablets can work for adventures, puzzles and rpgs | 07:12 |
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| timelyx | re packages | 07:13 |
| timelyx | pupnik: rocket propelled grenades? :) | 07:13 |
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| dolske | touch screen... carefully. | 07:14 |
| Shwiata | hello all | 07:14 |
| dolske | timelyx: are you going to tell me that 0.0.8-4 is the 770 version? | 07:15 |
| timelyx | maybe? :) | 07:15 |
| Shwiata | search appears to be broken and I just had a quick question, are there ready made installs of the wpa_supplicant for the n800 on someone's hard drive by any chance? | 07:16 |
| dolske | and that having the pre-bora repositories in the Application Manager is a bad idea? | 07:16 |
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| timelyx | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mozilla/trunk/microb-browser/debian/changelog?root=browser&view=annotate | 07:17 |
| timelyx | but garage doesn't know :) | 07:17 |
| timelyx | dolske: you have gregale repositories in application manager? | 07:17 |
| timelyx | dolske: there are stories about how to break a debian system | 07:17 |
| timelyx | they go something like this: | 07:17 |
| Wiredless | anyone know what is the newest hacker eddition 2007 for 770? | 07:18 |
| timelyx | Wiredless: can't you figure that out by going to the project page? | 07:18 |
| Wiredless | guess not | 07:18 |
| timelyx | add repositories for older/newer versions and do apt-get update; apt-get install <anything interesting> | 07:18 |
| Wiredless | i been looking around | 07:18 |
| Wiredless | not much luck | 07:18 |
| dolske | your 'um' implied I must some some something amazingly stupid such as to leave you speechless, so I checked and I still had a couple of the old repos enabled. | 07:19 |
| dolske | :) | 07:19 |
| timelyx | dolske: actually, that um was more like | 07:19 |
| Wiredless | going through the nokia os download it says 2.2006.47-17 | 07:19 |
| timelyx | "um, [pregnant pause, hiding ignorance of package details] | 07:19 |
| dolske | heh | 07:19 |
| Wiredless | i have 2.200648-7 on there now | 07:19 |
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| pupnik | um is general shorthand for 'don't know that to say' | 07:24 |
| pupnik | the cause of 'don't know what to say' can be varied | 07:25 |
| pupnik | i don't know, question is too confusing, question is too stupid | 07:25 |
| pupnik | for e.g. | 07:25 |
| dolske | At least he didn't sigh. :-P | 07:25 |
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| bedboi | re | 07:26 |
| pupnik | you're right though - usually it implies not understanding the question | 07:26 |
| Wiredless | great to see helpfull people in the channel | 07:26 |
| ysss__ | "baby, i'm pregnant!" "Um.." | 07:26 |
| bedboi | any dbus expert out there? | 07:27 |
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| pupnik | ok Wiredless - why doesn't xkbd send keyboard events to a fullscreen sdl app, but it sends to a windowed sdl app? | 07:28 |
| pupnik | tell me now! | 07:28 |
| pupnik | YOU OWE ME AN ANSWER BY BEING PRESENT IN THIS CHANNEL! | 07:29 |
| `0660 | window manager handles the events with windowed apps? | 07:29 |
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| pupnik | `0660: something like that - i am missing background knowledge on X | 07:30 |
| pupnik | in fact, by me being PRESENT IN THIS CHANNEL | 07:31 |
| pupnik | and WANTING to get SOMETHING DONE | 07:31 |
| pupnik | you ALL MUST WORK for me TO DO WHAT I WANT | 07:31 |
| pupnik | and YOU MUST ALL DO IT RIGHT NOW | 07:31 |
| pupnik | otherwise THIS CHANNEL SUCKS! | 07:31 |
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| `0660 | :) | 07:32 |
| pupnik | heh | 07:32 |
| `0660 | i could try to find you a tutorial on x event handling? :P | 07:33 |
| pupnik | no no i need to learn a lot to figure that out | 07:33 |
| pupnik | and the xkbd is a dirty hack anyway... it's difficult to know what to do about the situation of virtual keyboard and non-hildon apps | 07:34 |
| timelyx | pupnik: do what i want, i give you a tshirt | 07:35 |
| timelyx | it's that simple | 07:35 |
| pupnik | hehe | 07:35 |
| timelyx | :) | 07:35 |
| pupnik | yeah maybe sometime | 07:36 |
| kulve | lardman|gone: about the debugging. I use dbg(task, fmt, ...); function and those messages are seen in dmesg on ARM side (or in syslog) | 07:36 |
| timelyx | _Monkey sysklogd | 07:36 |
| _Monkey | timelyx: what? | 07:36 |
| timelyx | _Monkey syslogd | 07:36 |
| _Monkey | timelyx: i'm not following you... | 07:36 |
| timelyx | useless bot | 07:36 |
| `0660 | :) | 07:38 |
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| pupnik | timelyx: i'm just not into the normal use-cases and i don't think i am very useful to your work | 07:40 |
| timelyx | pupnik: we'll see | 07:40 |
| timelyx | i'm fairly good at putting people to work | 07:40 |
| pupnik | microb works fine here | 07:41 |
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| tompgl | i have lxdoom on a nokia 770 and i can't find the control to reduce the mouse sensitivity in options. anybody know how? | 07:54 |
| timelyx | anyone here happen to have an n800 that doesn't have microb installed? | 07:55 |
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| ysss__ | timelyx: yes | 08:08 |
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| timelyx | what does the toolbar look like? | 08:13 |
| timelyx | what's the first thing you see in it (on the left) | 08:14 |
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| ysss__ | toolbar? that's the bar on the bottom is it? the bookmark icon | 08:22 |
| ysss__ | actually, i have 2 n800.. one w/ microb and one without. i can do a direct comparison for you.. | 08:23 |
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| ysss__ | iirc, the only difference is the 'set engine' menu item | 08:23 |
| timelyx | ok | 08:24 |
| timelyx | can you load bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?product=Browser | 08:24 |
| timelyx | in the changed in field enter '1d' | 08:24 |
| timelyx | search | 08:24 |
| timelyx | there should be a bug that asked for a globe in the toolbar | 08:24 |
| timelyx | it should be resolved | 08:24 |
| timelyx | select it and comment that it's actually fixed in <4.2007 or whatever non microb os you have> | 08:24 |
| timelyx | feel free to note that you can get a 2007 he | 08:25 |
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| ysss__ | ok, doing the search.. | 08:36 |
| ysss__ | sorry, i'm doing a few things here | 08:36 |
| timelyx | no problem | 08:36 |
| timelyx | i'm explaining to someone how to analyze a bug and fix it | 08:36 |
| timelyx | stupid question time | 08:37 |
| timelyx | where does gtk live? | 08:37 |
| ysss__ | eh, finally found the bug. that guy isn't asking for bookmark icon. he's asking for the web icon that acts as a (multiple) web window selector, in place of a tab interface. | 08:41 |
| timelyx | oh god | 08:42 |
| ysss__ | that's actually not a bad idea, seeing that there's space in the bottom toolbar to fit that in. | 08:42 |
| * timelyx sighs | 08:42 | |
| timelyx | can you please fix the summary | 08:42 |
| timelyx | if you get a rejection, tell me your bugmail address and i'll upgrade you | 08:42 |
| timelyx | heck, give me your bugmail address | 08:43 |
| timelyx | i'll upgrade you and you can reopen | 08:43 |
| * timelyx looks for svn | 08:43 | |
| ysss__ | i'm not familiar w/ bug reporting procedures. the 'summary' is just another comment in that thread to clarify? | 08:45 |
| ysss__ | lys@eml.cc | 08:45 |
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| jarno | Hello! | 08:47 |
| timelyx | ok, reload the bug | 08:47 |
| timelyx | hello | 08:47 |
| timelyx | the summary is a field at the top | 08:47 |
| timelyx | it's editable and fairly distinct from comments | 08:48 |
| timelyx | basically: | 08:48 |
| timelyx | 1. edit the summary field | 08:48 |
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| timelyx | 2. type a comment explaining how what the reporter wanted and what i interpreted where different | 08:48 |
| timelyx | 3. select (*) reopen | 08:48 |
| timelyx | 4. review. | 08:48 |
| timelyx | 5. click commit | 08:48 |
| timelyx | use a spell checker for 4, firefox has one | 08:48 |
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| latzko | hi | 08:51 |
| latzko | In x86 target network and host resolving works from shell but it does not work in the window manager running on Xephyr. What am I missing? thanks | 08:53 |
| latzko | should I install and start something? | 08:54 |
| timelyx | svn sucks btw | 08:54 |
| timelyx | latzko: normally nsswitch.conf and resolve.conf aren't properly configured | 08:55 |
| timelyx | did you fix them? | 08:55 |
| * timelyx curses | 08:55 | |
| timelyx | sanjay is such a fragile box | 08:56 |
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| latzko | yes I found that in irc logs . I don't know what the fix really is. hosts: files dns networks: files is mine | 08:57 |
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| * timelyx can't parse that | 09:01 | |
| latzko | timelyx, thans anyway, I look the settings on the tablet :) | 09:01 |
| latzko | I mean thanks | 09:02 |
| ysss__ | timelyx: ok, done. | 09:05 |
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| latzko | well, nsswitch.conf and resolv.conf seems to be ok | 09:08 |
| latzko | in the shell net works perfectly | 09:09 |
| ysss__ | timelyx: is there a way to open web links in new background window? | 09:09 |
| timelyx | no | 09:09 |
| timelyx | but if you remove 20 menuitems for me, we can see about it | 09:09 |
| timelyx | browser has too many menu items | 09:09 |
| timelyx | i'm not adding more until i kill at least half a dozen | 09:10 |
| timelyx | preferably two dozen | 09:10 |
| timelyx | ysss__: but simply put | 09:10 |
| timelyx | the device you have doesn't have the resources to be used the way you want to use it | 09:10 |
| timelyx | so i will *not* encourage people to break their devices | 09:10 |
| timelyx | the browser can handle up to maybe 4 pages | 09:10 |
| ysss__ | remove or is regrouping acceptable, so they're conceptually easier to comprehend..? | 09:10 |
| ysss__ | ok.l | 09:11 |
| roope | timelyx: start with the encoding command or whatsitcalled. :) | 09:11 |
| timelyx | roope: we're trying to kill that | 09:11 |
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| timelyx | but i think there were some fun items in the frame context submenu | 09:11 |
| timelyx | roope: it almost died for microb | 09:11 |
| timelyx | roope: i think i gave you a bug this morning | 09:11 |
| timelyx | if i didn't, i can impersonate you now and make a comment to be sure you get the bug :) | 09:12 |
| timelyx | specifically, you should be watching applications:user interface | 09:12 |
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| timelyx | if you aren't, i can explain how to fix that :) | 09:12 |
| timelyx | (i can but really shouldn't fix it myself) | 09:13 |
| ysss__ | timelyx: how about consolidating the content of 'close' into 'window'? | 09:13 |
| timelyx | ysss__: i just moved that bug to roope's component | 09:14 |
| timelyx | it's the bug i was talking about | 09:14 |
| timelyx | :) | 09:14 |
| ysss__ | d'oh | 09:14 |
| timelyx | very timely :) | 09:14 |
| roope | sometimes i feel that my job is a scientific experiment on how many different topics one can multitask in. | 09:15 |
| timelyx | roope: i think you're the low end | 09:15 |
| roope | yeah, i thought that jenni set those bugs to come to me. | 09:15 |
| timelyx | try me, i'm having a couple of conversations, making a patch/tutorial in C | 09:15 |
| timelyx | roope: my reorg mostly clobbered that stuff | 09:15 |
| timelyx | i fixed the big qa buckets | 09:16 |
| timelyx | but not the little people | 09:16 |
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| timelyx | i can fix it for you if you like | 09:16 |
| timelyx | but i'd rather walk you through it | 09:16 |
| timelyx | other tasks i'm doing now: reviewing perl/html/js/css | 09:16 |
| roope | well, perhaps the multitask field is a bit ... umm, broader is topic range. | 09:16 |
| timelyx | trying to buy plane tickets to vienna ... | 09:16 |
| roope | but i'll try to check the bugzilla. although i'm crrap at using it | 09:17 |
| timelyx | load: https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email&tab=email | 09:18 |
| timelyx | scroll to the bottom | 09:18 |
| timelyx | look for: | 09:18 |
| timelyx | Users to watch: | 09:18 |
| timelyx | i have: | 09:18 |
| timelyx | [microb-bugs@maemo.org,bookmarks-bugs@maemo.org,flash-bugs@maemo.org,opera-engine-bugs@maemo.org,browser-bugs@maemo.org,media-plugin-bugs@maemo.org] | 09:18 |
| timelyx | in another window, load: | 09:18 |
| timelyx | https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Applications | 09:18 |
| timelyx | oh oops | 09:18 |
| timelyx | hrm, i haven't broken you yet | 09:18 |
| timelyx | well, maybe i should go ahead and break you now :) | 09:18 |
| timelyx | silly me | 09:19 |
| timelyx | anyway, that means you have seen the bug ysss__ asked about :) | 09:19 |
| timelyx | eww | 09:19 |
| timelyx | Applications:Core? | 09:19 |
| roope | sounds like the guy is asking to copy the iphone browser. | 09:20 |
| roope | icon that acts as a multiple window selector. | 09:20 |
| timelyx | roope: which bug is this? | 09:21 |
| roope | i was just backlog reading. | 09:21 |
| latzko | hm. apt-get works but apps with gui and net does not. do you have any clue? | 09:21 |
| roope | i'm not in the office yet, can't access bugzilla. | 09:21 |
| timelyx | roope: eh? | 09:21 |
| timelyx | bugs.maemo.org isn't behind any firewalls | 09:21 |
| timelyx | it's public | 09:21 |
| timelyx | my mac is at home, i'm on my mac | 09:22 |
| roope | i'm on my e61 | 09:22 |
| timelyx | course, you might not know your password | 09:22 |
| roope | it would be somewhat painful | 09:22 |
| roope | and i don't know my password. | 09:22 |
| timelyx | roope: i did a large part of the bugs.maemo.org reorg using my n800 w/ e61i offering the connectivity :) | 09:22 |
| timelyx | yeah, that password part is a problem. for me i just log into gmail and get it | 09:22 |
| roope | that's because the n800 was so good. | 09:22 |
| roope | ;) | 09:23 |
| timelyx | yeah, complete w/ microb :) | 09:23 |
| timelyx | it actually worked quite well | 09:23 |
| timelyx | i could have done it from my e61i, but i'd have used SSH to screen to lynx | 09:23 |
| timelyx | no way i'd use the gui browser to do it | 09:23 |
| timelyx | its window handling is awful | 09:23 |
| timelyx | wait | 09:24 |
| timelyx | this guy wants window switching? | 09:24 |
| jarno | What kind process is convert python programs to different hardware?Like Linux 386 to Nokia tablets? | 09:24 |
| timelyx | ysss__: what's wrong w/ the hardware home key? | 09:24 |
| jarno | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=72065#post72065 | 09:24 |
| timelyx | jarno: python w/ ui or python w/o? | 09:24 |
| timelyx | w/o it might just plain work unless the programmer tried very hard to be annoying | 09:25 |
| roope | we do have a couple of interesting concepts for window switching, but not like a button in the toolbar. | 09:25 |
| timelyx | depending on how good you want the gui integration you'd have to port to pymaemo or something | 09:26 |
| timelyx | roope: personally, i'd veto a button in the toolbar | 09:26 |
| timelyx | i already have: | 09:26 |
| timelyx | globe, rss, lock, tinyurlbar, go, back, forward, find | 09:26 |
| timelyx | where globe is heavily overloaded | 09:26 |
| timelyx | tinyurlbar is mildly overloaded (and likely to be more so eventually) | 09:27 |
| timelyx | go is overloaded w/ reload and stop | 09:27 |
| timelyx | back/forward are fairly overloaded | 09:27 |
| timelyx | and find has a kitchen sink | 09:27 |
| timelyx | the hardware home key already solves windowing | 09:27 |
| timelyx | i know. i used it a lot reorganizing bugzilla | 09:27 |
| timelyx | and it's fast, globally consistent, and actually works well | 09:28 |
| timelyx | now, if you want to get me a good feature | 09:28 |
| roope | with the current design, yes. | 09:28 |
| timelyx | i'd take expose or an equivalent | 09:28 |
| timelyx | something that lets me see small window previews of my open app windows | 09:28 |
| timelyx | i talked w/ eero about that over lunch yesterday | 09:28 |
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| roope | yeah, there are several ways to do switching. | 09:34 |
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| ysss__ | timelyx: it's an extra step, depending on how you are holding the IT, it may be inconvenient, etc ;) That's nitpicking like a crybaby probably, but enhancement no less. | 09:37 |
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| ysss__ | w/ limited screen space, i think it's inevitable to incorporate gestures to represent more actions. | 09:39 |
| * timelyx kicks ysss__ | 09:40 | |
| timelyx | anyone suggesting gestures will be shot | 09:40 |
| timelyx | consider yourself shot | 09:40 |
| * ysss__ deftly dodges the attempt. | 09:40 | |
| * timelyx doesn't miss | 09:40 | |
| ysss__ | Why? It's conceptually sound. | 09:40 |
| timelyx | it breaks the web | 09:40 |
| timelyx | it breaks maps.google.com | 09:41 |
| timelyx | it breaks docs.google.com | 09:41 |
| timelyx | it breaks reader.google.com | 09:41 |
| timelyx | it isn't sound | 09:41 |
| timelyx | it's arrogant and stupid | 09:41 |
| timelyx | it makes suppositions which are known bad | 09:41 |
| ysss__ | You have limited screen estate, you can only point at single pixel\icons currently, other than expanding the screen by smartly 'hiding' the elements, you can just incorporate motion... | 09:42 |
| timelyx | no. | 09:42 |
| timelyx | because the web applications respond to motion | 09:42 |
| timelyx | and then you break them | 09:42 |
| ysss__ | How about gestures, but not on the whole screen. | 09:42 |
| timelyx | and then users complain | 09:42 |
| ysss__ | only gestures that starts\ends on the toolbar, say. | 09:42 |
| timelyx | how does that work when people full screen and turn off the toolbar? | 09:42 |
| roope | inside the scope of the browser panning IS the gesture already. | 09:42 |
| timelyx | roope: which is the biggest pain i have | 09:42 |
| timelyx | it already breaks the web | 09:42 |
| timelyx | and people complain | 09:43 |
| ysss__ | instead of back-forward (multiple icons), you have a joystick like interface (single dot), and this shouldn't break any web. | 09:43 |
| timelyx | and fairly loudly | 09:43 |
| timelyx | and not just people, managers too | 09:43 |
| roope | well, panning won't be going away. | 09:43 |
| timelyx | roope: actually, it might | 09:43 |
| roope | no, it wont. :) | 09:43 |
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| timelyx | ysss__: personally, i think expose style is the only way to go | 09:43 |
| timelyx | that's probably pie menus and friends | 09:43 |
| timelyx | where you use a button offscreen (the app menu button would work) | 09:44 |
| timelyx | get a pretty overlay w/ all sorts of things | 09:44 |
| ysss__ | timelyx: that's the screen estate expansion.. but it involves extra step, yeah? | 09:44 |
| timelyx | i'm not pushing that yet | 09:44 |
| timelyx | it's safe | 09:44 |
| timelyx | you press the hardware menu key | 09:44 |
| timelyx | you can't try to use any pixel of real estate | 09:45 |
| timelyx | nor any direction | 09:45 |
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| timelyx | nor any timing | 09:45 |
| timelyx | because a web app is free to rely on all of them | 09:45 |
| timelyx | you need a way to say "i need talk to the browser and not the web app" | 09:45 |
| ysss__ | well, yes. | 09:45 |
| timelyx | good, | 09:45 |
| ysss__ | i don't think completely free-hand gesture works, due to the problem you've just described. What I mean is that it's a logical method to expand the function of existing widgets. | 09:47 |
| roope | gestures are useful as shortcuts. | 09:47 |
| ysss__ | Like the joystick analogy, or iphone's sliding button, etc. | 09:47 |
| roope | but they cannot be the only bethod to access something. | 09:47 |
| timelyx | ++roope | 09:47 |
| roope | most users never find them. | 09:47 |
| timelyx | ++roope | 09:47 |
| ysss__ | Yes, agreed. | 09:47 |
| timelyx | anyway, while i'm a power user | 09:47 |
| timelyx | i will not design for power users | 09:48 |
| timelyx | my primary goal is: | 09:48 |
| timelyx | 1. do not break the web | 09:48 |
| timelyx | my secondary goals are: | 09:48 |
| timelyx | 2. do not break the web | 09:48 |
| timelyx | 3. see rule #1 | 09:48 |
| ysss__ | pulldown menus are conceptually already incorporating gestures. and it works. | 09:48 |
| timelyx | i have tertiary goals of course... | 09:48 |
| timelyx | ysss__: actually, it doesn't | 09:48 |
| timelyx | roope will almost certainly tell you that people don't discover the app menu in the home scxreen | 09:49 |
| roope | going outside the discussion scope of the browser, yes we'll have more gestures | 09:49 |
| ysss__ | you click on the menu, it expands, you slide and navigate to the desired item. | 09:49 |
| timelyx | and often the app menu in applications | 09:49 |
| roope | inside the scope of the browser, i don't really see much happening. | 09:49 |
| timelyx | i will try to provide solutions. and they probably will include things like oriented navigtion | 09:50 |
| timelyx | but they will have to be modal in the sense that you trigger them, use them, and then discard them | 09:50 |
| timelyx | they won't be modal in the "you can't interact w/ anything else while open" sense | 09:50 |
| timelyx | but they probably will mean "you can't interact directly with things beneath this" | 09:50 |
| timelyx | i tried sketching it once on my laptop, i'm not sure if my laptop has blue screened since then | 09:51 |
| timelyx | it's hard to keep track, my mac panic'd this week and i'm pretty sure my laptop bluescreened | 09:51 |
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| ysss__ | heh | 09:51 |
| timelyx | my workstation has very good uptime | 09:52 |
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| timelyx | but even the dreamhost mirror of my workstation has bad uptime | 09:52 |
| timelyx | and yes, dreamhost blames me :) | 09:52 |
| timelyx | [sanjay]$ uptime | 09:52 |
| timelyx | 23:52:29 up 7 days, 4:32, 4 users, load average: 1.09, 1.57, 1.74 | 09:52 |
| timelyx | but it's not because of load, i'm not killing the box w/ load | 09:52 |
| ysss__ | gesture works quite well on viewing documents (picsel browser), I guess the main sticking point w/ the browser is that it's an always expanding application by itself. | 09:52 |
| timelyx | ysss__: gestures are fine for dead trees | 09:53 |
| timelyx | as long as the thing you're poking won't poke back, no problem | 09:53 |
| ysss__ | yep | 09:53 |
| timelyx | but wait until your yabber chat includes a flash avatar | 09:53 |
| timelyx | flash is equivalent to the web browser | 09:53 |
| timelyx | wait until the pdf viewer stops sucking (this may take several years) | 09:54 |
| ysss__ | They have picsel browser for the linux motorola phone (e680 or whatever).. it'd be nice if they release for maemo, seeing Nokia already has areement w/ Picsel in the past. | 09:54 |
| timelyx | pdf documents can be full applications | 09:54 |
| * timelyx tries to remember which other things are out there | 09:54 | |
| timelyx | wait until media player supports SMIL applications | 09:54 |
| timelyx | or Flash for that matter ... | 09:54 |
| timelyx | those are both full applications | 09:54 |
| timelyx | or rather application hosts | 09:54 |
| timelyx | wait until image viewer supports full SVG | 09:55 |
| timelyx | SVG is a complete application host | 09:55 |
| timelyx | hrm, what am i missing? | 09:55 |
| ysss__ | yeah | 09:55 |
| ysss__ | i'm missing my lunch | 09:55 |
| timelyx | now, you might say, "oh, it's only a browser problem" | 09:55 |
| timelyx | but it isn't | 09:55 |
| timelyx | and you or whomever says it is shortsighted (and stuck in 1989) | 09:56 |
| timelyx | since most of these have been around since the early 90s | 09:56 |
| timelyx | certainly interactive PDFs | 09:56 |
| timelyx | (yes, our pdf viewer is absolutely useless and doesn't even support forms) | 09:56 |
| ysss__ | does evince? | 09:56 |
| timelyx | Flash probably dates to 95 | 09:56 |
| timelyx | in my testing? no. | 09:57 |
| timelyx | i tried it on a desktop and gave up | 09:57 |
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| timelyx | before SVG was WMF, i can't recall if it supported interaction | 09:58 |
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| timelyx | oh, there was also VML which predates SVG | 09:58 |
| timelyx | it kinda died, but practically speaking it's coming back | 09:58 |
| timelyx | there's also of course standard "applications" like "maemo mapper" | 09:58 |
| timelyx | if they try to emulate google maps, then you can't use whatever "clever" gestures you invent | 09:59 |
| timelyx | for the same reason | 09:59 |
| timelyx | the only solution you have is something like the DOOM (?) port which has a special area you can use as a tap region | 09:59 |
| ysss__ | Have you used picsel? | 09:59 |
| timelyx | seems like it requires flash? | 10:00 |
| timelyx | i think roope (?) mentioned it | 10:00 |
| timelyx | the special area is basically my plan for browser... | 10:00 |
| ysss__ | Btw, I don't -like- gesture for the sake of having gesture, I just think it's an underused method that -can- be incorporated smartly to expand user interaction. Both in capability and convenience. | 10:01 |
| timelyx | i don't dislike it just for the sake of disliking it | 10:01 |
| timelyx | i have good reasons for disliking it | 10:01 |
| timelyx | discoverability, failure to solve the root problem of needing a normal way to do something, and breaking the web | 10:01 |
| timelyx | (clearly not in that order) | 10:02 |
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| ysss__ | picsel is a document viewer that can read all office files (xls, doc, ppt, just about all text files format, html, pdf, and various image formats). Quite popular on palm and pocketpc.. | 10:02 |
| ysss__ | Ok | 10:02 |
| ysss__ | ahh kfc is here.. chow time | 10:02 |
| timelyx | ysss__/ roope: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167 | 10:03 |
| timelyx | ysss__: note that we already have tabs in the browser | 10:03 |
| timelyx | they're just not exposed because one of management or a ui designer complained | 10:04 |
| timelyx | not sure which, frankly i don't really care | 10:04 |
| ysss__ | i don't want tabs in n800 browser. i think it's waste of space. | 10:04 |
| * timelyx neither | 10:05 | |
| _Monkey | neither are great reasons to consider it | 10:05 |
| * timelyx considers | 10:05 | |
| timelyx | anyway, the main reason i don't want tabs is the same reason i don't want open link in background | 10:05 |
| timelyx | our device can't handle the load | 10:05 |
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| timelyx | and making it too easy to switch windows or have lots of windows will fool users into believing it can | 10:06 |
| timelyx | resulting in them hurting themselves and thinking the browser sucks | 10:06 |
| timelyx | i'm happier to tell them no when they ask for tabs or open link in background | 10:06 |
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| ysss__ | set a limit of open windows. | 10:06 |
| timelyx | people will complain or ask for a way to change it | 10:07 |
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| MoRpHeUz | timelyx: good point about browser's tabs.... | 10:08 |
| ysss__ | i use 2 to 3 (no more than that) browser windows when i have to multitask. | 10:08 |
| timelyx | i find myself using 4, which is basically asking for crashes | 10:08 |
| ysss__ | i want to load new links in background because when i use gprs it's dog slow, and i want it to start loading while i focus on the current window. | 10:08 |
| timelyx | i'm usually only really using 3 | 10:08 |
| timelyx | ysss__: yeah, thing is.... you don't need to do that | 10:09 |
| timelyx | are you paying for gprs bits or just airtime? | 10:09 |
| timelyx | gecko has a feature to precache links | 10:09 |
| ysss__ | loading in background will help mask, or alleviate the limitations of the platform (slower performance, high probability of being tethered to slow connnection also) | 10:09 |
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| timelyx | but the problem is... | 10:09 |
| timelyx | in the states especially, but presumably everywhere else | 10:09 |
| timelyx | if you're using gprs, you're paying for bandwidth | 10:10 |
| timelyx | which means anything we download for you costs money | 10:10 |
| ysss__ | not everywhere else definitely | 10:10 |
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| timelyx | i say for you. because nokia pays my bill, and therefore i personally shouldn't care | 10:10 |
| ysss__ | heh | 10:10 |
| timelyx | but my sister complains about minutes that i spend when i call her | 10:10 |
| timelyx | and she'd complain if i sent her an sms | 10:10 |
| timelyx | (which is reasonable since it's cheaper for me to call her and easier for both of us if i use email) | 10:11 |
| timelyx | and most plans in the states/canada charge a fair bit by the byte | 10:11 |
| timelyx | now, it's true, apple (*not* nokia) is changing this | 10:11 |
| timelyx | but until it does, turning on a precache feature by default is a really bad idea | 10:12 |
| timelyx | if you have microb, you can see if the feature works | 10:12 |
| timelyx | (i don't use it) | 10:12 |
| ysss__ | but what does bandwidth cost has to do with having an (optional?) feature of loading new links in the background? | 10:14 |
| timelyx | imagine instead of having to click links | 10:15 |
| timelyx | that your browser automatically precached the content for the links | 10:15 |
| ysss__ | I see this having to do more w/ browsing habit and slow connections. | 10:15 |
| timelyx | w/o loading them | 10:15 |
| timelyx | note that loading is the expensive thing to the browser | 10:15 |
| timelyx | it doesn't mind downloading | 10:15 |
| timelyx | but loading is *very* expensive | 10:15 |
| timelyx | it requires lots of memory and lots of cpu | 10:15 |
| ysss__ | I'd be pissed and confused, because that's such a wasteful logic. | 10:15 |
| * timelyx shrugs | 10:16 | |
| ysss__ | because it very likely will be loading links that I will probably not open. | 10:16 |
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| timelyx | *shrug* | 10:16 |
| timelyx | if you're not paying for bandwidth but value time, it could be worth it | 10:16 |
| ysss__ | I think we're talking about a different thing..? | 10:16 |
| timelyx | if you're paying for bandwidth | 10:16 |
| timelyx | then i suggest not opening links in background | 10:17 |
| timelyx | you can easily end up downloading a huge thing that you don't want | 10:17 |
| timelyx | or worse, your browser will probably crash and you'll have no idea why | 10:17 |
| ysss__ | when I say load things in the background, I mean I choose a link, select to 'open it in new window', and have the window load NOT IN FOCUS | 10:17 |
| timelyx | yes, i know | 10:17 |
| ysss__ | not precache all links on your current page | 10:17 |
| timelyx | actually, the algorithm doesn't pick them all | 10:18 |
| timelyx | it's theoretically smarter than that | 10:18 |
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| guardian | morning | 10:20 |
| _Monkey | aloha | 10:20 |
| ysss__ | moin | 10:20 |
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| ysss__ | oh wootoff | 10:25 |
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| unique311 | i cannot get java going on my n800 to save my life | 10:30 |
| unique311 | installed the jalimo packages | 10:30 |
| unique311 | can't get the .jar files going | 10:30 |
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| konttori | iSo, what do you guys think of the new nokia interface: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeCKIRfElaI | 10:56 |
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| konttori | for the 'n', not 'i' phones. | 10:57 |
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| timelyx | nor 'e' | 10:57 |
| timelyx | it sounds like BeOS twicher | 10:58 |
| timelyx | too bad BeOS had it um... | 10:58 |
| timelyx | 15 years ago | 10:58 |
| konttori | pretty good actual user test video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dZ5krLWcq4&NR=1 | 10:59 |
| timelyx | are they replacing the awful nav button w/ a better one? | 10:59 |
| konttori | dpad? Well, judging from the video, it's different, and I hope it's impossible to make a worse dpad. | 11:00 |
| * timelyx chuckles | 11:00 | |
| timelyx | i've seen most of those bits, both hardware and software demod | 11:00 |
| timelyx | i wonder if there's a public announcement about the other detail | 11:00 |
| timelyx | but yeah, overall it looks like an improvemnet | 11:01 |
| timelyx | ent | 11:01 |
| timelyx | i'd still probably buy a gen2 iPhone or a gen 2 gPhone | 11:01 |
| konttori | the latter video says the controls are of ngage class, but then again, it's produced by NokNokTv, so I wouldn't trust it that much | 11:02 |
| timelyx | i played w/ the iPhone last friday for <20mins, and the features it has work better than the two videos you linked | 11:02 |
| timelyx | and i presume that nokia put their best face forward | 11:02 |
| timelyx | whereas i managed to crash safari on the iPhone :) | 11:02 |
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| konttori | Nice. Did it run out of mem or what crashed it? | 11:04 |
| konttori | I would think that webkit is already stable enough itself. | 11:04 |
| timelyx | dunno | 11:04 |
| timelyx | i wasn't using a complicated page in the end | 11:04 |
| MKB | porbably just timelyx's bad gadget karma :P | 11:04 |
| timelyx | although i had loaded planet earlier | 11:04 |
| timelyx | i think it ended up being a simple bugzilla page that did it in :) | 11:05 |
| timelyx | konttori: all things considered, it's still not so bad | 11:05 |
| konttori | the 'new navi wheel' looks quite tedious to use. The circle is so small. | 11:05 |
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| timelyx | i bluescreened the samsung Q1 when i got it | 11:05 |
| timelyx | in approximately similar testing | 11:05 |
| konttori | true. Might be a nice phone in the end. And I love the A + B button placement there. | 11:05 |
| timelyx | is this the n81? | 11:06 |
| konttori | yeah. | 11:06 |
| timelyx | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=394208 sad | 11:06 |
| konttori | You can see the buttons pretty well in this pic: http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/nokias-n81-slider-is-a-real-n-gager/ | 11:06 |
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| timelyx | hrm | 11:07 |
| timelyx | so it has a b. does it have select start? | 11:07 |
| konttori | Well, it has other buttons. I suppose they can be used for select start. | 11:07 |
| konttori | select start are not that used, so their placement is not that important | 11:08 |
| timelyx | modern gamepads have ab xy lr select start | 11:08 |
| timelyx | or at least, they did when i was growing up | 11:09 |
| timelyx | the wii is of course slightly different from the snes | 11:09 |
| timelyx | or n64 | 11:09 |
| konttori | yeah, well, of course xy would be nice, but AB are the necessities. XY are nice but not a must have. | 11:09 |
| * timelyx nods | 11:10 | |
| timelyx | getting ab is definitely a good start | 11:10 |
| timelyx | but it's like, hello, welcome to 1985 | 11:10 |
| timelyx | i'm glad nokia is out of the stone age and only 20 years behind | 11:10 |
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| konttori | true. But then again, the casual games you'd play on mobile phone don't necessarily need that many keys anyway. | 11:11 |
| timelyx | depends what you're trying to do | 11:11 |
| konttori | I don't see myself playing street fighter on that thing. | 11:11 |
| timelyx | i played actraiser on my sony ericsion s710a | 11:11 |
| timelyx | it worked quite well | 11:11 |
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| timelyx | i'd never consider doing it on any of the nokia phones i have | 11:12 |
| konttori | I might like to play final fantasy or just about any casual game. Most of them do pretty well with just 2 buttons. | 11:12 |
| timelyx | and i have probably 4 atm w/ a 5th on the way | 11:12 |
| konttori | I had ngage, which was really great for picodrive. | 11:12 |
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| timelyx | picodrive? | 11:12 |
| konttori | I played through the megadrive catalogue that I originally missed with it. | 11:12 |
| konttori | Yeah, you get 100% speed on full screen for megadrive / genesis games | 11:13 |
| konttori | and state saving and loading with touch of a button. thus, it was perfectly fine for casual sessions as well. | 11:13 |
| timelyx | sorry, i don't recognize picodrive, is it a game or an engine? i could google, but i'm reading one of your links | 11:13 |
| konttori | picodrive is a megadrive / genesis emulator | 11:14 |
| konttori | uses cyclone, a pure ARM assember emulator of 68000 processor | 11:14 |
| timelyx | heh | 11:14 |
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| konttori | which made it as fast as it was. Really great stuff from just two coders. | 11:15 |
| konttori | Nokia should put an emu there with DRM and agree with sega to start selling original genesis catalogue for it. | 11:16 |
| timelyx | anyway, i'm not really sure i want games specificlaly | 11:16 |
| timelyx | i mostly want it to be possible | 11:16 |
| konttori | now that would make ngage a true platform instantly | 11:16 |
| timelyx | if the device can't handle them, it's in trouble | 11:16 |
| timelyx | what prevents nintendo someday from moving into the cell industry? :) | 11:17 |
| konttori | I think nintendo is wise enough company to focus on gaming. | 11:17 |
| timelyx | they have better ui engineers, better customer relations, better marketing ... | 11:17 |
| konttori | it might add audio / video conferencing to mobile and tv platforms, but nintendo will always focus on gaming first. | 11:18 |
| timelyx | they already have a web browser | 11:18 |
| timelyx | but yeah, i don't expect them to move away from game as core | 11:18 |
| bilboed | anybody knows if those new nokia devices are maemo-based ? | 11:18 |
| timelyx | but that doesn't mean their devices couldn't come in and kill | 11:18 |
| timelyx | bilboed: they aren't | 11:18 |
| timelyx | they're s60 | 11:18 |
| konttori | they are S60 based | 11:18 |
| bilboed | timelyx, argh, sucks | 11:18 |
| timelyx | nokia is converging on ideas | 11:19 |
| timelyx | so similar things might come from maemo too | 11:19 |
| timelyx | but nokia likes reinventing the same bad or good ideas more than once | 11:19 |
| bilboed | :) | 11:19 |
| timelyx | more chances for different mistakes and inconsitencies | 11:19 |
| konttori | yeah, and next big maemo release might be a leap forward. | 11:19 |
| timelyx | or backwards | 11:19 |
| konttori | or sideways | 11:19 |
| timelyx | life is like a box of chocolates... | 11:19 |
| * timelyx wonders if konttori can fill in the rest | 11:20 | |
| konttori | you have to work for nokia to know what you are getting next? | 11:20 |
| timelyx | eh | 11:20 |
| timelyx | heh | 11:20 |
| timelyx | even if you work for nokia you never know | 11:21 |
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| guardian | hi, i wanted to reinstall my 3.1 sdk by launching the script | 11:24 |
| guardian | when installing the targets, it says "Adding unselected devkit: debian" | 11:24 |
| guardian | then it fails to install the virtual packages | 11:24 |
| guardian | any idea ? | 11:24 |
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| ysss__ | timelyx: which version of microb do you use? | 11:31 |
| timelyx | um, depends where | 11:32 |
| timelyx | but generally the 2nd beta release | 11:32 |
| timelyx | i'm not certain and don't pay too much attn to it | 11:33 |
| roope | Well, I at least complained about browser tabs. | 11:33 |
| roope | But so did my managers. | 11:33 |
| timelyx | practically speaking, i only need bug reports | 11:33 |
| timelyx | i can fix things based on them | 11:33 |
| timelyx | see bug 255 | 11:33 |
| * timelyx eyes _Monkey | 11:33 | |
| timelyx | did someone turn that off? | 11:33 |
| _Monkey | Bug 255 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=255 | 11:33 |
| ysss__ | timelyx: does this work on yours? http://individuals.interactivebrokers.com/en/software/demoWebTrader.php | 11:34 |
| roope | Sorry, so how I set myself ot watch a certain component on the public bugzilla. | 11:38 |
| roope | I just set to watch that email address? | 11:39 |
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| roope | That's 'logical' :p | 11:39 |
| timelyx | roope: the point is you can watch anyone | 11:41 |
| timelyx | not just components | 11:41 |
| timelyx | anyway, you figured it out | 11:41 |
| timelyx | ysss__: gimme a bit | 11:41 |
| timelyx | roope: if there's a component which isn't dying which has a qa that's used in another place, let me know, and i'll fix it | 11:42 |
| ysss__ | timelyx: sure. a few friends who trade on IB want to buy n800 if the demo on that page loads. | 11:43 |
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| timelyx | ysss__: i hope you're willing to walk me through using this thing | 11:47 |
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| timelyx | ysss__: i got a server error | 11:50 |
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| ysss__ | timelyx: it should show a table instead of the server error. | 11:51 |
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| ysss__ | timelyx: desktop firefox works fine with it. I don't know about opera. | 11:52 |
| timelyx | ysss__: if you disable plugins on desktop, does it work? | 11:55 |
| timelyx | also, are you trying minefield or ff2? | 11:55 |
| timelyx | oh, also, while you're at it | 11:55 |
| timelyx | go to about: in your microb | 11:56 |
| ysss__ | timelyx: firefox v2. i will try disabling plugins. | 11:56 |
| timelyx | copy the useragent from it | 11:56 |
| timelyx | go to about:config in firefox | 11:56 |
| timelyx | right click (* or whatever) | 11:56 |
| timelyx | select new>string | 11:56 |
| timelyx | general.useragent.override | 11:57 |
| timelyx | ok | 11:57 |
| timelyx | enter the useragent you got from about: in microb | 11:57 |
| ysss__ | ok | 11:58 |
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| konttori | I was just trying to play with fceu but I can't realy get it to work. | 12:01 |
| konttori | I installed from extras. | 12:01 |
| timelyx | what's that? | 12:01 |
| konttori | the nes emulator for maemo | 12:02 |
| florian | good morning | 12:02 |
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| timelyx | noon | 12:04 |
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| ysss__ | Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv6l; en-GB; rv:1.9a6pre) Gecko/20070810 Firefox/3.0a1 Tablet browser 0.1.16 RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.26-8 | 12:05 |
| ysss__ | is that all useragent string? | 12:06 |
| timelyx | yes | 12:07 |
| konttori | fceu seems otherwise just fine, but the fullscreen mode won't toggle on correctly and I don't see the right side on screen buttons at all | 12:07 |
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| * konttori posted a description of the problem to internettablettalk. I hope it will find its way to the developers / porters. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=72085#post72085 | 12:15 | |
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| timelyx | oh darn | 12:16 |
| * timelyx was supposed to have a meeting w/ someone | 12:17 | |
| timelyx | oops | 12:17 |
| timelyx | roope: i'm running nin now | 12:17 |
| ysss__ | timelyx: yes, it's the useragent. | 12:18 |
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| timelyx | fwiw, our useragent is invalid | 12:20 |
| timelyx | but that's not really relevant | 12:20 |
| timelyx | feel free to file a bug documenting the steps you took to discover it was their fault | 12:20 |
| timelyx | i.e. each question i asked, each step you took to test | 12:20 |
| timelyx | then mark it invalid | 12:20 |
| timelyx | it's good to have places explaining how to analyze... | 12:20 |
| ysss__ | will do. | 12:22 |
| ysss__ | Have you heard of any other sites inaccessible due to microb's useragent string? | 12:22 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:27 |
| ysss__ | morning | 12:27 |
| _Monkey | aloha | 12:27 |
| timeless | roope: you make it to the office? | 12:33 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 12:46 |
| kulve | AD-N770: hmm.. You're a asm guru, right? :) | 12:47 |
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| AD-N770 | kulve: not bad | 12:54 |
| kulve | http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/speex/libspeex/arch.h | 12:55 |
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| kulve | AD-N770: does those functions look like something that could be "easily" ported to use dsp asm? | 12:56 |
| kulve | blackfin example: http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/speex/libspeex/fixed_bfin.h | 12:56 |
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| roope | Well now. | 13:04 |
| timeless | you're in? | 13:04 |
| roope | yeah. | 13:05 |
| timeless | ok, over in 2mins) | 13:05 |
| ysss__ | timeless: why is microb useragent invalid? | 13:06 |
| timeless | ysss__: the rule is X/Y not X Y | 13:06 |
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| timeless | and we have "Tablet browser" or something | 13:06 |
| ysss__ | yeah there is. | 13:06 |
| timeless | http://www.mozilla.org/build/revised-user-agent-strings.html | 13:07 |
| ysss__ | So that's the reason for interactivebrokers.com rejecting microb. | 13:07 |
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| timeless | might be the right spec | 13:13 |
| timeless | not sure | 13:13 |
| timeless | but in short, it's not valid | 13:13 |
| timeless | trust me | 13:13 |
| timeless | but the odds that the site *knows* it isn't valid are nill :) | 13:13 |
| AD-N770 | kulve: I don't tried to write dsp asm yet | 13:14 |
| AD-N770 | kulve: but looks like something that fits on dsp | 13:15 |
| kulve | AD-N770: I've got that running fine on the dsp now, but it's slightly slower than realtime without the asm optimizations | 13:21 |
| kulve | timeless: you were involved about planning the new bugzilla components? | 13:24 |
| kulve | the description for "System software" seems to be "Hildon Application Framework" even though it includes also the lower level stuff like busybox etc.. | 13:26 |
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| lardman | morning | 13:44 |
| _Monkey | aloha | 13:44 |
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| lardman | _Monkey: Do you think I'm Hawaiian? | 13:44 |
| _Monkey | lardman: no idea | 13:44 |
| lardman | _Monkey: I'm not | 13:44 |
| _Monkey | lardman: huh? | 13:44 |
| lardman | silly bot | 13:44 |
| lardman | ah well, I suppose aloha is mainstream enough for me | 13:45 |
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| lardman | kulve: have you looked at the dsplib docs, etc.? | 13:50 |
| kulve | lardman: quickly. It seemed to contain a bit too complex functions for me. I.e. they would probably be useful if I would like to port the whole speex to dsp, but it's enough for me to get just the basic math functions ported | 13:53 |
| lardman | I've read some docs about optimisations for the c55 | 13:53 |
| lardman | trying to dig them out | 13:54 |
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| lardman | Well the dsplib has vector add, etc. | 13:56 |
| lardman | and max, min | 13:57 |
| lardman | spru422h.pdf if you don't have it open | 13:57 |
| lardman | The TMS320C55x DSP Programmer’s Guide (spru376a.pdf) is probably what you want | 13:59 |
| lardman | Particularly ch3 - Optimizing (sic) C Code | 13:59 |
| kulve | 422h is old ;) | 13:59 |
| lardman | is it? I'll have to grab an updated one then | 14:00 |
| kulve | 422i seems to be newer. Dunno if there are any real differencies.. | 14:00 |
| lardman | okay, I'll grab that one and delete the old one | 14:01 |
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| xlence | bonjour | 14:22 |
| _Monkey | hey, xlence | 14:22 |
| xlence | y a t-il des francais ici ? | 14:22 |
| lardman | pourquoi? | 14:23 |
| pello | non y a pas de francais | 14:24 |
| xlence | simplement parce que je pensé que c'été principalement un canal anglophone | 14:24 |
| xlence | et que moi et l'anglais sa fais deux | 14:25 |
| xlence | ;) | 14:25 |
| lardman | oui, c'est vrai | 14:25 |
| pello | apparemment tu as aussi du mal en français lol | 14:25 |
| xlence | un peu | 14:25 |
| xlence | lol | 14:25 |
| xlence | je viens de recevoir mon n800 et j'ai des questions. y a t-il quelqu'un qui a un peu de temps pour m'aider ? | 14:26 |
| pello | je viens de terminer l'apéro | 14:26 |
| pello | c'est l'heure de manger | 14:26 |
| lardman | oui, mais seulement avec francais facilement | 14:27 |
| pello | mais vas-y | 14:27 |
| kulve | älämölö | 14:27 |
| lardman | The other option is a private conversation to avoid contravening the English only rule | 14:28 |
| celesteh_rules | je parle un peu de français. Qu'est que c'est vos questions? | 14:28 |
| celesteh_rules | it's a rule? | 14:28 |
| lardman | dunno | 14:28 |
| xlence | je n'arrive pas a installer certain programme comme mnotify, kagu, mirage, ... | 14:28 |
| xlence | il me dit que certaines librairies sont manquantes | 14:28 |
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| pupnikzzz | tr: he's missing some libraries | 14:29 |
| lardman | You need to ensure you have certain additional repositories defined | 14:29 |
| xlence | how to add repositories ? | 14:30 |
| celesteh_rules | vous avez le "application manager" | 14:30 |
| celesteh_rules | il faut que vous avoir plus de "repositories" | 14:30 |
| celesteh_rules | il y a un menu qui s'apple 'Tools' | 14:31 |
| pupnikzzz | http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php there's a repository index i hadn't seen before - nice overview | 14:31 |
| celesteh_rules | et la il y a un Application Catalog | 14:31 |
| celesteh_rules | cliquez ça | 14:31 |
| lardman | would be good if it had install files for each repo too | 14:31 |
| pupnikzzz | great idea | 14:32 |
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| pupnikzzz | i wonder how one would say "one needs to add repositories in the application manager"? On peut ... | 14:35 |
| lardman | On doit | 14:36 |
| pupnikzzz | heh ok :) | 14:36 |
| celesteh_rules | cliquez "new" | 14:37 |
| celesteh_rules | ici, c'est une liste de repositories: http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php | 14:37 |
| celesteh_rules | utilizez cette list pour mettre neuveaux repositories dans le applications manager | 14:37 |
| celesteh_rules | pour example: catalog name: Debian Nokia repository , Web address: http://repository.maemo.org/extras , Distribution: bora, Components: free non-free | 14:37 |
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| celesteh_rules | what, my mangled french not good enough? ;) | 14:37 |
| lardman | certainly faster than mine :) | 14:37 |
| celesteh_rules | i lived in france for a year, but, to aparaphrase mark twain, i never did have any luck getting those folks to understand their own language | 14:39 |
| lardman | :D | 14:39 |
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| xlence | ok j'ai pu installer mnotify et kagu grace à : http://repository.maemo.org/ bora | free non-free | 14:41 |
| xlence | merci pour votre aide | 14:41 |
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| celesteh_rules | super | 14:42 |
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| xlence | il ni a plus que skype que je n'arrive pas à installer | 14:44 |
| melmoth | "Il faut ajouter des repository dans le gestionnaire de programmes" | 14:44 |
| xlence | applications manquantes : osso-dsp-modules-rx-34 , libplayback-1.0 ........ | 14:44 |
| melmoth | i use "repository" even when speaking french. | 14:44 |
| xlence | mais lequel ? | 14:44 |
| xlence | etant basé sur Debian, ni a t-il pas un fichier liste avec les repository que vous pourriez m'envoyer avfin de remplacer le mien ? | 14:46 |
| xlence | genre sources.list | 14:46 |
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| melmoth | il ya un sources.list | 14:46 |
| melmoth | xlence tu as deja un xtemr ou ssh d installé ? | 14:46 |
| xlence | xterm oui | 14:47 |
| lardman | Do you have the latest flash image? Skype should just install without problems | 14:47 |
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| melmoth | farpait.tu as le meme probleme en utilisant apt-get plutot que le gestionnaire graphique la ? | 14:47 |
| melmoth | Et deuxieme piste: sois sur d activer le mode 'red pill' | 14:47 |
| pupnikzzz | hmm "ajouter" - to add-to | 14:47 |
| xlence | ma version est IT OS 2007 ver. 3.2007.10-7 | 14:47 |
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| xlence | c'est quoi le mode red pill ? | 14:48 |
| melmoth | bouge pas | 14:48 |
| celesteh_rules | je pense que c'est necessaire à 'flash' votre n800 avec un neu 'operating system' | 14:48 |
| melmoth | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/enableredpillmode/ | 14:48 |
| melmoth | :) | 14:48 |
| melmoth | Je pense qu'il est necessaire de reflasher ton n800 avec une nouveau systeme d exploitation :) | 14:48 |
| melmoth | effectivement skype il marhe que avec le dernier qui est plsu recent | 14:49 |
| lardman | See what the version is - control panel or "cat /proc/version" ? | 14:49 |
| lardman | not sure about the last one, but something buried under /proc | 14:50 |
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| xlence | ok | 14:50 |
| xlence | j'ai activé le mode red pill | 14:51 |
| xlence | cela me fais un peu peur de le flascher alors que je viens juste de le recevoir et que je ne le maitrise pas encore | 14:51 |
| xlence | est ce simple ? | 14:51 |
| kulve | cat /etc/osso_software_version | 14:51 |
| melmoth | c est tres simple xlence | 14:51 |
| xlence | meme en etant sur un pc avec linux ? | 14:51 |
| melmoth | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/ | 14:52 |
| melmoth | je ne sais pas comment ca se passe ailleurs que sous linux | 14:52 |
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| * pupnik sits in the corner and plays accordion | 14:53 | |
| melmoth | tu trouve l application flasher qui va bien avec ta distrib. Tu trouve le firmware qui va bien avec ta tablette | 14:53 |
| melmoth | diatonic one ? | 14:53 |
| zeenix | am i on the wrong channel? :) | 14:53 |
| lardman | mais voir le version tout d'abord | 14:53 |
| melmoth | And now for your french lesson :) | 14:53 |
| lardman | zeenix: We're learing french :) | 14:53 |
| derf | I would've gone with "on a besoin de" instead of "on doit", but French class was a long time ago. | 14:54 |
| pupnik | "It's like.. they've got a different word for *everything*!" - Steve Martin | 14:54 |
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| lardman | derf: True, I was going for a commanding attitude ;) | 14:54 |
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| derf | Well, then, carry on. | 14:55 |
| zeenix | lardman: what for? even jean-luc pickard doesn't speak french | 14:55 |
| melmoth | xlence la derniere version est bien RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.26-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 14:55 |
| lardman | zeenix: We took pity on a chap who doesn't speak English, but he's probably still better than we are | 14:56 |
| lardman | at English ;) | 14:56 |
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| xlence | ok je suis sous ubuntu feisty, mais sur le site http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php il ni a que pour dapper et il n'est pas préciser comme sur les autres si c'est pour le n800 ou e n770 | 14:57 |
| pupnik | melmoth: vous etes sure il n'a pas le it2007 version moste recente? | 14:58 |
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| melmoth | i am . | 14:58 |
| xlence | la version flasher-3.0-static est elle bonne autrement ? sachant que mon pc est sous intel ? | 14:59 |
| melmoth | source=http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php (you need to log in with your n800 mac address first) | 14:59 |
| timeless | kulve: yes, i haven't gotten around to fixing the description | 14:59 |
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| timeless | provide a better description and i'll use it :) | 14:59 |
| lardman | xlence: Oui, il va marcher | 14:59 |
| lardman | or elle va marche | 14:59 |
| melmoth | xlence, ca devrait pas poser de pb, tu as choisi static, donc meme si tu nas pas les lib qu il faut, elles sont dans le binaire | 15:00 |
| xlence | ok, je suis entrain d'essayer d'enlever la batterie... y a un truc ou quoi pour l'enlever | 15:00 |
| xlence | j'arrive pas | 15:00 |
| xlence | ;) | 15:00 |
| melmoth | en general, je donne un chti coup sec | 15:00 |
| melmoth | sinon, je crois que c est ta mac addresse, donc ifconfig et tu l as | 15:00 |
| melmoth | xlence, c est effectivement ta mac addresse, sans les : | 15:02 |
| xlence | ok, j'ai recuperer le dernier firmware | 15:02 |
| xlence | question , est ce que cela va m'effacer ce que j'ai deja configurer dans le n800 (different point d'acces wifi, association avec le tel, programme installer ?) | 15:03 |
| ysss__ | what's up, my french homey.. | 15:03 |
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| pupnik | this is very educational | 15:03 |
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| pupnik | oui, flashing the n800 will erase configuration and installed programs | 15:05 |
| * lardman wonders if this conversation will still be going on when he gets back in an hour? | 15:05 | |
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| xlence | ok, thank pupnik and melmoth | 15:05 |
| pupnik | :) | 15:06 |
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| xlence | faut il brancher le chargeur pour le flasher ? faut il le cable USB d'origine ? (il me reste 1h en utilisation et j'ai un cable USB normal) | 15:10 |
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| pupnik | non et non | 15:13 |
| geaaru | hi at all, with new browser (mozilla engine) can i start browser in fullscreen mode? | 15:13 |
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| timeless | pupnik/kulve: got a suggested description for the System software product? | 15:16 |
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| xlence | je resume ce qu'il faut faire, merci de me dire si c'est bon ou pas : | 15:19 |
| xlence | on debranche le chargeur, on eteint le n800 et on le connecte au port USB du PC | 15:19 |
| xlence | On lance ./flasher-3.0 -F RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.26-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R | 15:19 |
| xlence | Un message "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" apparait sur la console | 15:19 |
| xlence | brancher le chargeur | 15:19 |
| xlence | après je comprend pas trop ce qu'il faut faire ... | 15:19 |
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| melmoth | xlence, de mémoire, attendre. | 15:21 |
| melmoth | apres, ca reboote | 15:21 |
| melmoth | et c est fait. | 15:21 |
| kulve | I think this channel should be english-only .. | 15:21 |
| melmoth | xlence, /msg pour du francais :) | 15:22 |
| xlence | mais il faut brancher le chargeur ? ou 1h de batterie suffit ? | 15:22 |
| melmoth | je l ai toujours fait avec la betterie pleine, mais y en a jamais eu pour une heure, beaucoup moins (5mn ) | 15:22 |
| eijk | Hi! | 15:22 |
| melmoth | i always did it withe a full battery (reflash), but it never has been an hour long process, it s more a matter of 5 mn | 15:23 |
| xlence | ok, je tente de te parler en pv melmoth mais sa ne passe pas | 15:23 |
| xlence | peux tu essayer ? | 15:23 |
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| eijk | I have got a small problem: I installed the bootmenu and copied the rootfs to MMC. Works fine, except: The filemanager now crashes as soon as I click anything in the left hand panel. | 15:26 |
| eijk | When I boot from flash for comparison, this does not happen. Could the file manager have problems with a rootfs of ~500 MB size? | 15:26 |
| kulve | eijk: I had the same problem with the previous it2007 version, with mmc and with flash. | 15:27 |
| pupnik | xlence /msg nickserv help /msg nickserv register /msg nickserv identify pour les messages privat | 15:27 |
| kulve | althouhg my rootfs was a lot smaller that 500M | 15:27 |
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| eijk | Sorry, should have read "right hand panel". Left hand panel seems to work to some degree.... | 15:27 |
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| kulve | eijk: are you running the latest version? | 15:28 |
| kulve | n800/770? | 15:28 |
| eijk | kulve: I am on the latest OS2006 on a 770. | 15:28 |
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| kulve | oh | 15:28 |
| kulve | I have n800 and same sounding problem.. Or had the problem | 15:28 |
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| eijk | ssvb: Are you there? | 15:45 |
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| guardian | does it ring a bell: /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set | 15:54 |
| guardian | i just reinstalled scratchbox and sdks from the scripts provided on repository.maemo.org :( | 15:54 |
| cosmo | forgot to set cpu transparency method when creating target? | 15:55 |
| guardian | well the script created the targets | 15:55 |
| guardian | and i'm using the i386 one | 15:55 |
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| guardian | got it i guess | 15:58 |
| pupnik_ | what was the solution? | 15:58 |
| guardian | the package i'm using erroneously contains an armel executable | 15:58 |
| guardian | launched from postinst | 15:58 |
| pupnik_ | ah | 15:58 |
| ssvb | eijk: yes | 15:59 |
| eijk | ssvb: I just wanted to follow up on the memory corruption issue: It's currently completely gone for me! | 16:00 |
| eijk | ssvb: I don't know how I should reproduce it now. So I am absolutely puzzled, what was causing it... | 16:00 |
| eijk | ssvb: I had been on a bike trip with it, maybe it was humidity? | 16:00 |
| eijk | ssvb: That could maybe reduce isolation between circuits of the WLAN and the memory controller or something like that? | 16:01 |
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| ssvb | eijk: when I investigated this issue, it really could disappear suddenly and show up again with no visible reason | 16:05 |
| eijk | ssvb: Hmm... you were in favour of a software reason, but doesn't this rather sound like hardware problems? | 16:06 |
| ssvb | eijk: by the way, do you have a stable wlan connection? my wireless router is behind two concrete walls, so signal quality is not the best | 16:07 |
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| eijk | eijk: Yes, the wlan connection is pretty solid: The router is only two meters away in the same room. (It crashes from time to time, though...) | 16:08 |
| eijk | Sorry, I meant ssvb, of course... | 16:08 |
| eijk | Stupid, talking to myself... | 16:08 |
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| ssvb | eijk: memtester reports addresses of memory which it considers bad, the point is that the offset of this bad address within 1K memory block was a constant value for one firmware revision, but a different constant value for another firmware | 16:09 |
| eijk | ssvb: Hmm, for me it was never constant, if I remember correctly... | 16:09 |
| ssvb | eijk: for hardware fault I would expect either completely random addresses or a constant address not depending on firmware revision | 16:10 |
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| eijk | ssvb: Also, the problems already started with the "stuck memory address" test. So the other tests are not very reliable according to the documentation... | 16:10 |
| ssvb | eijk: so this is what makes me think that it is a software problem | 16:10 |
| eijk | ssvb: Hmm... The other thing is, that I am not sure, a user land application really sees true hardware adresses... | 16:11 |
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| ssvb | eijk: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2006-September/005607.html | 16:24 |
| ssvb | eijk: I modified memtester a bit to use mmap (so it allocates memory blocks at physical page boundaries) | 16:25 |
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| ssvb | eijk: this 'a5' offset at the end of 'faulty' address changed to some other value for a different firmware version | 16:26 |
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| ssvb | eijk: I can try to find my patch for memtester which was used for tests is you are interested (the links from the mailing list are not valid anymore) | 16:34 |
| ssvb | eijk: s/is/if | 16:34 |
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| ssvb | eijk: so I suppose there might be something like 'use after free problem' in wifi driver: it could probably allocate some block of memory, free it, but continue to use it, overwriting the memory which could have been allocated to some other program already | 16:42 |
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| ssvb | eijk: but that's only a speculation | 16:42 |
| ssvb | eijk: how large was the memory block that you used for testing? | 16:44 |
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| eijk | ssvb: I tried different sizes, 4, 8, 16, 24 | 16:48 |
| eijk | ssvb: But if the problem occured didn't really depend on the size. When I had problems, I already had them with "4". | 16:48 |
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| eijk | ssvb: did you already see the problems at the "stuck address" test? | 16:51 |
| ssvb | eijk: the problem occured when you were 'lucky' enough to get a problematic memory page allocated as part of your memory block | 16:51 |
| ssvb | eijk: with a larger memory block, the chance of catching it should be higher, 24MB is only ~1/3 of all the memory available on the device | 16:52 |
| eijk | ssvb: Ok, sounds like a little different problem to me... For me, if it happened, it more or less happened all the time... | 16:53 |
| ssvb | eijk: repeateable runs of the test program are likely to get the same memory allocated | 16:53 |
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| eijk | ssvb: well, in a way i had a similar impression: when using only 4 MB, I sometimes had to start a second time in order to induce problems... | 16:54 |
| eijk | ssvb: with 24, it failed everytime | 16:54 |
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| ssvb | eijk: what sounds different? once you catch the problem, repeatable runs of memtester always confirm it | 16:56 |
| ssvb | eijk: similarly if memtester run was 'successful', you are likely to get the same 'successful' result if you try to run memtester several more times in a row | 16:58 |
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| simon_perreault | hi, I'm having trouble installing Maemo | 17:04 |
| simon_perreault | [simon@ringo scratchbox]$ ./loginERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up! | 17:04 |
| simon_perreault | can anyone help me? | 17:04 |
| cosmo | hm, interesting: http://patrickbaudisch.com/projects/lucidtouch/index.html | 17:05 |
| cosmo | that might work well on maemo devices | 17:06 |
| pupnik_ | hi simon_perreault offhand i don't know what that error means | 17:06 |
| lardman | how do they sense the position? | 17:06 |
| simon_perreault | pupnik_: mmm | 17:06 |
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| cosmo | webcam currently, see the video | 17:06 |
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| lardman | cosmo: Ah, okay | 17:07 |
| lardman | flat buffers done, time to make them circular then try compiling!# | 17:08 |
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| simon_perreault | i'll just reinstall from scratch | 17:08 |
| pupnik_ | simon_perreault: that's what i'd do - i used a debian host and scratchbox .deb packages | 17:09 |
| simon_perreault | i'm on fedora at the moment. if it still doesn't work i'll install ubuntu in a vmware | 17:11 |
| pupnik_ | there are also preinstalled vmware images containing a system with scratchbox | 17:11 |
| simon_perreault | oh cool | 17:11 |
| eijk | ssvb: well, I didn't have to try very hard to hit a bad block with 4 MB, so I am not sure if it's really about some localised bad blocks. I rather had the feeling that something interferes with data transfer. | 17:11 |
| simon_perreault | pupnik_: where? | 17:11 |
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| pupnik_ | vmware? | 17:11 |
| simon_perreault | ok, thanks | 17:12 |
| pupnik_ | _Monkey: vmware is a Maemo Development appliance for Maemo - http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/702 | 17:12 |
| _Monkey | OK, pupnik_. | 17:12 |
| pupnik_ | blah | 17:12 |
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| ssvb | eijk: probably it is a good idea to develop some specialized test program which would try to investigate the issue, for example what region of memory gets corrupted? is it a single byte/word or a large block? This information might help when checking wifi driver sources (their open part) | 17:24 |
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| eijk | ssvb: definitely | 17:41 |
| eijk | ssvb: maybe one could also write a program which just allocates a block and then use a debugger to create a hardware breakpoint for any write accesses to that block. Don't know if that's possible on a 770. | 17:42 |
| eijk | ssvb: then one could really distinguish, if there are real writes involved, or if the underlying hardware corrupts things. | 17:43 |
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| lardman | bye chaps | 19:10 |
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| GMort | Is there a way to enlarge the text size in Xchat on the N800? | 20:03 |
| mgedmin | isn't there a preferences dialog where you could do that? | 20:04 |
| GMort | I will look for that thanks. The usual buttons dont's work. | 20:05 |
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| GMort | Thanks mgedmin. Found it. | 20:09 |
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| CardinalFang | How can I debug the booting process? My 770 with OS2007h-e just started up from being off, and seemed to boot three separate times. Black screen -> white -> "Nokia" -> progress bar -> hands -> half-painted UI. Repeat twice. Finally finish painting UI and ready to use. | 20:13 |
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| mgedmin | CardinalFang: try http://maemo.org/community/wiki/reportingrebootissues/ | 20:15 |
| CardinalFang | mgedmin, Ooo, thank you. | 20:16 |
| CardinalFang | Ah, the OOM-killer. | 20:24 |
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| mgedmin | OOM? | 20:24 |
| _Monkey | OOM is out-of-memory (I think, again) | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | how did you deduce that? | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | I don't think you can see that in /proc/bootreason or the lifeguard logs | 20:25 |
| CardinalFang | It's in the dmesg. For this particular boot, it didn't kill something that was essential. :( | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | ah | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | ouch | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | I wonder if a swap partition would help | 20:25 |
| CardinalFang | I have one. In fact, I went out of my way to make it double the size the UI sets up: 128MiB. | 20:26 |
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| mgedmin | so it's not brought up early enough | 20:37 |
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| * CardinalFang updates the reportingrebootissues page. | 20:51 | |
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| CardinalFang | mgedmin, Hmm, maybe it's not. The dmesg lists swap activation at time 293 and OOM reaping at time 488. The order is good, but that doesn't mean the swap is ready in time, yes? | 20:55 |
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| mgedmin | hmm | 20:55 |
| mgedmin | it should be, I think | 20:55 |
| mgedmin | what process did it kill? | 20:56 |
| CardinalFang | I don't know what time units those are. Are jiffies centiseconds on here? | 20:56 |
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| CardinalFang | mgedmin, It killed metalayer-crawl this time. | 20:57 |
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| mgedmin | I don't know about those time units; dmesg on my desktop seems to use seconds (with microsecond precision) | 20:58 |
| mgedmin | do you have many mp3 files on a mmc card? | 20:59 |
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| mgedmin | I wonder if there's a leak in metalayer-crawler, or if it just needs more ram than you have | 21:00 |
| CardinalFang | No, maybe a dozen, with another two dozen Ogg/Vorbis (that I currently can't play). | 21:00 |
| CardinalFang | I have a dozen e-books also. | 21:00 |
| mgedmin | metalayer-crawler only indexes multimedia files (music and videos), so e-books are irrelevant | 21:01 |
| CardinalFang | Could be, could be. | 21:01 |
| mgedmin | on the other hand, it crawls over your whole filesystem, so if you have many files & directories it may have some impact | 21:01 |
| CardinalFang | But, it open()s or mmap()s the files to look for magic numbers, or looks at the filename. Thorough/big vs lossy/small. | 21:02 |
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| CardinalFang | mgedmin, I don't know where the problem is, so I hesitate to blame metalayer-crawler this early. I'd like to see what's going on. | 21:04 |
| CardinalFang | Maybe I can use ulimit to keep it in line. :) | 21:04 |
| CardinalFang | mgedmin, On the off chance that you're interested in the dmesg: http://pastebin.com/m6ed4510c | 21:06 |
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| mgedmin | interesting | 21:11 |
| mgedmin | it had 1.5 megs of free ram plus 130 megs of free swap, but failed an order-0 allocation (which afaiu means a single 4kb page) | 21:13 |
| mgedmin | I wonder what gfp_mask=0x200d2 means | 21:13 |
| mgedmin | my linux knowledge is insufficient here | 21:13 |
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| CardinalFang | Maybe I'll slurp down the source later and find out. | 21:20 |
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| xlence | bonsoir, j'aimerai connaitre le mot de passe du compte root | 22:10 |
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| Bigup | hum... xlence did not notice it was an english speaking forum | 22:19 |
| Bigup | he wanted to know maemo's root password | 22:20 |
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| ||cw | well, it's well documented that there isn't one | 22:24 |
| ||cw | r is it rootme? | 22:24 |
| ||cw | damned, i forget. it's documented anyway | 22:25 |
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| Bigup | ||cw: i was just translating | 22:42 |
| Bigup | good evening ! | 22:42 |
| Bigup | i leave | 22:42 |
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| CardinalFang | Is there a hook into emitting an information message to the user, like "connected to %s" displays for new Wifi connections? | 23:02 |
| * CardinalFang wants "xmessage 'Text here!'" | 23:02 | |
| zakx | you can implent that easily in python | 23:03 |
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| CardinalFang | You don't happen to know the name of the widget/window offhand, do you? | 23:03 |
| zakx | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/python_maemo_3.x_howto.html | 23:04 |
| zakx | look for "Receiver sample application" | 23:05 |
| zakx | err, Sender | 23:05 |
| CardinalFang | Ah, osso.SystemNote. Grassy. | 23:06 |
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| trevarthan | Howdy folks. | 23:53 |
| celesteh_rules | hi | 23:53 |
| _Monkey | niihau, celesteh_rules | 23:53 |
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