IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2007-08-30

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gidgeti cannot receive inbound gizmo calls on the 770, but a windows box on the same LAN receives them fine.  whats up with that?00:47
gidgetcant find anything concerning this n gizmo forums or ittalk forums00:48
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gidgeti have tried with the 770 in dmz too, even though the win box doesn't require it00:50
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jumpulashoul've said 'se'02:21
jumpulabut only analogy i could came up with was less, and i was hoping for someone to fill in 'le'02:21
erstaziremossle? heh02:22
jumpulaand then remosslestmo02:22
jumpula(i have no life)02:23
erstaziits ok02:23
erstaziits a wednesday night here and I am very exhausted02:23
jumpulahm, i think i'll go to bed02:24
jumpulaeasier to wake up tomorrow02:24
erstazijumpula: night02:26
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MCCobanyone have a valid repository for tapioca ? or deb file ?02:42
sooleki couldn't find any maemo deb install file either02:43
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bmk789is there a guide to running maemo in a VM to try it out?02:53
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unique311whose the brazilian?03:30
mmillerI'll take my N800 over a iphone any day.03:31
unique311not sure about that story03:32
unique311i want an iphone now.03:32
unique311software unlock03:32
unique311gotta be a good thing.03:33
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mmillerHope you like it when the battery goes out on it..03:33
mmillerYou have to replace the hole phone..03:33
unique311you joking?03:34
unique311i replaced my ipod battery03:36
unique311wasn't hard to do at all.03:36
unique311 pretty sure the iphone is not that difficult03:36
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pupnikgreat new radio interviews04:28
pupnikoops wrong channel04:28
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dolskeHrm. I don't seem to be able to update to microb 0.0.8-4.04:56
dolskeApplication packages missing: maemo-browser-dialogs (>= 0.3.18) and -widgets (>= 0.4.15).04:57
dolsketimelE61i: ?04:58
pupnikis that your site?05:14
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pupnikgood site05:18
pupnikfind the packages and install manually and give feedback05:22
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dolskegood site? It's just a placeholder page! :)05:25
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[1]a-l-p-h-awhere's the 2007 hackers edition how-to?05:40
pupnikdolske: yeah but the blinking cursor is cool05:41
pupnikjust because your nickname is a pain in the ass to type doesn't mean you're ready for 2007he05:42
[1]a-l-p-h-athanks. :)05:43
pupnikthe answer is i don't know of a howto05:44
[1]a-l-p-h-awell, I'm looking for the "flasher" app... I have flashergui, not flasher.05:45
pupnikflash the image and try it out05:45
_Monkeyflasher is probably available from
* pupnik gives _Monkey a kupo nut05:47
[1]a-l-p-h-aokay, so no win32 flasher?05:48
pupniki don't know05:49
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yssskupo nut sounds familiar..05:56
ysssis it from Final Fantasy series?05:56
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pupnikysss: i have ported playstation emulator to the nokia05:57
yssshow does it run?05:58
pupnik1fps on average05:58
pupnikbut it will be possible to get 10-20fps05:59
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pupnikysss: are you interested in emulation and have some coding experience?06:00
ysss15fps should be ok06:00
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ysssI've unuseful coding experience, but have a heavy stock of emulation uhm assets..06:01
pupnikok, there are a lot of arm emulators from the gp2x scene that could work on the nokias06:02
[1]a-l-p-h-aI made the mistake of connecting the mail program connect to gmail.  anyone know how to clear all emails easily06:02
pupniknobody has managed to port one yet06:02
yssspupnik: have you tried booting n800 from SD? Is it true that it behaves badly w/ the AC adapter?06:02
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pupniki only have 770 - and i boot from mmc and only have occasional strangeness06:02
yssspupnik: yes, I have a gp2x so I never looked for emulation on other platform since the gp2x does it so nicely. ScummVM on n800 is quite awesome though.06:03
yssspupnik: what strangeness did you find and how often?06:03
pupnikvery seldom -06:04
pupnikysss: we need those gp2x emus06:04
pupnikysss: is there a software emulator for gp2x?06:04
pupniki also have some unreleased ports if you want to help test06:05
yssspupnik: I didn't participate in gp2x developments, so I don't know.06:06
yssspupnik: sure I'll test as long as it has little risk on my n800, because i use it daily.06:06
pupnikwell those guys did great work06:06
pupniknobody on planet earth is working to port gp2x emus to nokia06:07
ysssYeah, it's the best portable emulation platform i've seen yet. i don't get why they didn't upgrade the CPU on their new machine though.06:07
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pupnikyeah, someone on the forums says there is a project to do a next-gen gp2x06:08
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pupnikysss: this would be good:
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_Monkeypupnik, is there a nice tutorial for packaing for the N80006:11
unique311I did tell you i got neopop to work fullscreen, but i couldn't get controls to work on it.06:12
pupnikwhat for this neopop?06:12
unique311not sure but i think it was the gp2x source i modified to get it to work on the N80006:12
unique311its neogeo06:12
unique311the handheld06:12
unique311like a gameboy06:12
erstaziunique311: howdy, long time no see06:13
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unique311been working on shirt designs06:13
erstazi_Monkey: forget pupnik,06:13
_Monkeyerstazi: I forgot pupnik,06:13
pupnikyou do so much stuff unique311 - why not get a cheap website?06:13
yssspupnik: nifty. I wish the IT gets a slide-out keyboard though. One w/ buldging keys like the Treo.06:13
unique311and going thru the worst toothache ever right now.06:13
erstaziunique311: put some jack daniels on it, it will take the pain away06:13
unique311i was looking for some liquor..06:14
ysssneogeo pocket06:14
pupnikno dentist06:14
unique311none in the house.06:14
erstaziand I am not saying that because I am an alcoholic... I just know <EG>06:14
unique311the pain is gone.06:14
unique311its swollen.06:14
erstaziunique311: what do you have? how much do you weight? niteqwik will work06:14
unique311i had a freaking milkyway06:14
ysssunique311: what do u do with the shirt designs?06:14
unique311i have some descent designs.06:15
pupnikysss: http:/
unique311pupnik if you want the source i modified for fullscreen, i can't up it for you..06:17
yssssubmit your less-than-decent ones to heh06:17
unique311speed is really fast06:17
yssspupnik: nice06:17
pupnikno more projects for me unique31106:17
pupniki have to finish stuff06:18
unique311waiting on this guy to put out the faint release fullscreen.06:18
erstaziI have too many projects myself06:18
pupnikthe thing that is burning a hole in my brain is the snes emu06:19
pupnikthat's doable06:20
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pupnikand those rpgs would be workable with the bad d-pad06:20
unique311someone on ITT is trying to get picodrive going.06:21
unique311isn't that ur project06:21
pupnikcool i missed that - under gaming or development?06:21
pupnikthe only picodrive work i did was with you :)06:21
erstazihow strange, the whole day, I haven't even touched my 77006:22
erstazithats a first06:22
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pupnikanyway picodrive will not be much good06:22
pupnikthe games all are twitchware - fast response games06:23
pupnikexcept for a couple of rpgs (not very good)06:23
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unique311for gaming on the N80006:24
unique311i think i'm addicted to solitaire06:25
ysssI wish for a decent poker game for the IT06:25
unique311lots of flash games that provide that06:25
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yssshorrible adware last time i checked.06:26
unique311i did a flash package06:26
ysssthen again, i've no idea how to effectively search for flash content.06:26
unique311hold on06:26
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unique311has some good vegas games..06:27
_Monkeysalut, fer__06:27
fer__anyone knws if it's possible to use a bluetooth headset with a n800?06:27
ysssTHANK YOU :D   (the addict gambler in me just spoke)06:28
fer__(I mean, to use voip/SIP/Skype)06:28
unique311you can treak it up for your needs.06:28
erstaziysss: I like Texas Hold'em myself (:06:29
ysssunique311: i've never used flash from disk\ram. Do you launch it from file manager or point the browser to it?06:29
erstazifer__: I have heard of people talking about it06:29
yssserstazi: yesssssss... me tooooooo06:29
unique311place it in mmc06:29
unique311and run the index.html06:29
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unique311bookmark it06:29
unique311place Mflash folder in mmc1 or mmc206:30
ysssfer__: i've read that they can pair, but there's no bluetooth headset profile yet. It seems right now the answer is "not yet".06:30
unique311run index.html06:30
ysssunique311: nice06:30
unique311and bookmark it06:31
unique311i sucked at html.06:31
unique311used dreamweaver, so it worked out ok i guess06:31
ysssunique311: i was gonna say "Naw, it looks alright" or something like that, but my crappy connection is still not done downloading the thing :]06:32
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unique311ysss, 770 or 800?06:33
unique311might not play well with the 770...pupnik's reviews wasn't that good.06:34
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pupniki what huh06:37
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unique311remember the flash package i made06:37
pupnikoh that was awesome06:37
unique311you gave it a run, and it didn't play well with the 77006:37
pupnikbut a lot of them were too slow on the 77006:37
erstaziok,sleep time, everyone have a good night06:38
unique311was warning ysss if he owns a 77006:38
unique311later erstazi06:38
pupnikunique311: that's going to be a huge gaming thing for the n800 and the next tablet06:38
ysss__nite erstazi06:39
ysss__unique311: i got disconnected06:39
pupnikunique311: are they open source?  can you distribute the package on a website?06:39
pupnikdivshare is not enough06:39
ysss__the karma gods heard me bitch about my connection and instantly struck my dsl down.06:39
pupnikunique311: i spend 99 cents a month for my site -- if you want it shouldn't be much more expensive06:40
unique311i had webhosting.06:41
pupniki am not giving advice, but i think maybe some of the stuff you've done isn't getting enough attention06:41
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ysss__that's a good non-advice06:42
fer__ysss__, thanks for the info.06:42
unique311i planned on tweaking the flash package and then adding it to the garage if they would let me.06:42
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unique311but never got to it.06:42
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Wiredlessanyone know what repositoru has the needed lids for UKMP?06:43
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unique311anyone using a wiimote with the device?06:50
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ysss__not me, i don't use my n800 for twitch gaming07:05
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timelyxdolske: um07:10
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pupniknokia tablets can work for adventures, puzzles and rpgs07:12
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timelyxre packages07:13
timelyxpupnik: rocket propelled grenades? :)07:13
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dolsketouch screen... carefully.07:14
Shwiatahello all07:14
dolsketimelyx: are you going to tell me that 0.0.8-4 is the 770 version?07:15
timelyxmaybe? :)07:15
Shwiatasearch appears to be broken and I just had a quick question, are there ready made installs of the wpa_supplicant for the n800 on someone's hard drive by any chance?07:16
dolskeand that having the pre-bora repositories in the Application Manager is a bad idea?07:16
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timelyxbut garage doesn't know :)07:17
timelyxdolske: you have gregale repositories in application manager?07:17
timelyxdolske: there are stories about how to break a debian system07:17
timelyxthey go something like this:07:17
Wiredlessanyone know what is the newest hacker eddition 2007 for 770?07:18
timelyxWiredless: can't you figure that out by going to the project page?07:18
Wiredlessguess not07:18
timelyxadd repositories for older/newer versions and do apt-get update; apt-get install <anything interesting>07:18
Wiredlessi been looking around07:18
Wiredlessnot much luck07:18
dolskeyour 'um' implied I must some some something amazingly stupid such as to leave you speechless, so I checked and I still had a couple of the old repos enabled.07:19
timelyxdolske: actually, that um was more like07:19
Wiredlessgoing through the nokia os download it says 2.2006.47-1707:19
timelyx"um, [pregnant pause, hiding ignorance of package details]07:19
Wiredlessi have 2.200648-7 on there now07:19
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pupnikum is general shorthand for 'don't know that to say'07:24
pupnikthe cause of 'don't know what to say' can be varied07:25
pupniki don't know,  question is too confusing,  question is too stupid07:25
pupnikfor e.g.07:25
dolskeAt least he didn't sigh. :-P07:25
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pupnikyou're right though - usually it implies not understanding the question07:26
Wiredlessgreat to see helpfull people in the channel07:26
ysss__"baby, i'm pregnant!"    "Um.."07:26
bedboiany dbus expert out there?07:27
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pupnikok Wiredless - why doesn't xkbd send keyboard events to a fullscreen sdl app, but it sends to a windowed sdl app?07:28
pupniktell me now!07:28
`0660window manager handles the events with windowed apps?07:29
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pupnik`0660: something like that - i am missing background knowledge on X07:30
pupnikin fact, by me being PRESENT IN THIS CHANNEL07:31
pupnikand WANTING to get SOMETHING DONE07:31
pupnikyou ALL MUST WORK for me TO DO WHAT I WANT07:31
pupnikotherwise THIS CHANNEL SUCKS!07:31
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`0660i could try to find you a tutorial on x event handling? :P07:33
pupnikno no i need to learn a lot to figure that out07:33
pupnikand the xkbd is a dirty hack anyway... it's difficult to know what to do about the situation of virtual keyboard and non-hildon apps07:34
timelyxpupnik: do what i want, i give you a tshirt07:35
timelyxit's that simple07:35
pupnikyeah maybe sometime07:36
kulvelardman|gone: about the debugging. I use dbg(task, fmt, ...); function and those messages are seen in dmesg on ARM side (or in syslog)07:36
timelyx_Monkey sysklogd07:36
_Monkeytimelyx: what?07:36
timelyx_Monkey syslogd07:36
_Monkeytimelyx: i'm not following you...07:36
timelyxuseless bot07:36
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pupniktimelyx: i'm just not into the normal use-cases and i don't think i am very useful to your work07:40
timelyxpupnik: we'll see07:40
timelyxi'm fairly good at putting people to work07:40
pupnikmicrob works fine here07:41
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tompgli have lxdoom on a nokia 770 and i can't find the control to reduce the mouse sensitivity in options. anybody know how?07:54
timelyxanyone here happen to have an n800 that doesn't have microb installed?07:55
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ysss__timelyx: yes08:08
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timelyxwhat does the toolbar look like?08:13
timelyxwhat's the first thing you see in it (on the left)08:14
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ysss__toolbar? that's the bar on the bottom is it? the bookmark icon08:22
ysss__actually, i have 2 n800.. one w/ microb and one without. i can do a direct comparison for you..08:23
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ysss__iirc, the only difference is the 'set engine' menu item08:23
timelyxcan you load
timelyxin the changed in field enter '1d'08:24
timelyxthere should be a bug that asked for a globe in the toolbar08:24
timelyxit should be resolved08:24
timelyxselect it and comment that it's actually fixed in <4.2007 or whatever non microb os you have>08:24
timelyxfeel free to note that you can get a 2007 he08:25
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ysss__ok, doing the search..08:36
ysss__sorry, i'm doing a few things here08:36
timelyxno problem08:36
timelyxi'm explaining to someone how to analyze a bug and fix it08:36
timelyxstupid question time08:37
timelyxwhere does gtk live?08:37
ysss__eh, finally found the bug. that guy isn't asking for bookmark icon. he's asking for the web icon that acts as a (multiple) web window selector, in place of a tab interface.08:41
timelyxoh god08:42
ysss__that's actually not a bad idea, seeing that there's space in the bottom toolbar to fit that in.08:42
* timelyx sighs08:42
timelyxcan you please fix the summary08:42
timelyxif you get a rejection, tell me your bugmail address and i'll upgrade you08:42
timelyxheck, give me your bugmail address08:43
timelyxi'll upgrade you and you can reopen08:43
* timelyx looks for svn08:43
ysss__i'm not familiar w/ bug reporting procedures. the 'summary' is just another comment in that thread to clarify?08:45
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timelyxok, reload the bug08:47
timelyxthe summary is a field at the top08:47
timelyxit's editable and fairly distinct from comments08:48
timelyx1. edit the summary field08:48
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timelyx2. type a comment explaining how what the reporter wanted and what i interpreted where different08:48
timelyx3. select (*) reopen08:48
timelyx4. review.08:48
timelyx5. click commit08:48
timelyxuse a spell checker for 4, firefox has one08:48
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latzkoIn x86 target network and host resolving works from shell but it does not work in the window manager running on Xephyr. What am I missing? thanks08:53
latzkoshould I install and start something?08:54
timelyxsvn sucks btw08:54
timelyxlatzko: normally nsswitch.conf and resolve.conf aren't properly configured08:55
timelyxdid you fix them?08:55
* timelyx curses08:55
timelyxsanjay is such a fragile box08:56
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latzkoyes I found that in irc logs . I don't know what the fix really is. hosts: files dns networks: files is mine08:57
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* timelyx can't parse that09:01
latzkotimelyx, thans anyway, I look the settings on the tablet :)09:01
latzkoI mean thanks09:02
ysss__timelyx: ok, done.09:05
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latzkowell, nsswitch.conf and resolv.conf seems to be ok09:08
latzkoin the shell net works perfectly09:09
ysss__timelyx: is there a way to open web links in new background window?09:09
timelyxbut if you remove 20 menuitems for me, we can see about it09:09
timelyxbrowser has too many menu items09:09
timelyxi'm not adding more until i kill at least half a dozen09:10
timelyxpreferably two dozen09:10
timelyxysss__: but simply put09:10
timelyxthe device you have doesn't have the resources to be used the way you want to use it09:10
timelyxso i will *not* encourage people to break their devices09:10
timelyxthe browser can handle up to maybe 4 pages09:10
ysss__remove or is regrouping acceptable, so they're conceptually easier to comprehend..?09:10
roopetimelyx: start with the encoding command or whatsitcalled. :)09:11
timelyxroope: we're trying to kill that09:11
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timelyxbut i think there were some fun items in the frame context submenu09:11
timelyxroope: it almost died for microb09:11
timelyxroope: i think i gave you a bug this morning09:11
timelyxif i didn't, i can impersonate you now and make a comment to be sure you get the bug :)09:12
timelyxspecifically, you should be watching applications:user interface09:12
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timelyxif you aren't, i can explain how to fix that :)09:12
timelyx(i can but really shouldn't fix it myself)09:13
ysss__timelyx: how about consolidating the content of 'close' into 'window'?09:13
timelyxysss__: i just moved that bug to roope's component09:14
timelyxit's the bug i was talking about09:14
timelyxvery timely :)09:14
roopesometimes i feel that my job is a scientific experiment on how many different topics one can multitask in.09:15
timelyxroope: i think you're the low end09:15
roopeyeah, i thought that jenni set those bugs to come to me.09:15
timelyxtry me, i'm having a couple of conversations, making a patch/tutorial in C09:15
timelyxroope: my reorg mostly clobbered that stuff09:15
timelyxi fixed the big qa buckets09:16
timelyxbut not the little people09:16
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timelyxi can fix it for you if you like09:16
timelyxbut i'd rather walk you through it09:16
timelyxother tasks i'm doing now: reviewing perl/html/js/css09:16
roopewell, perhaps the multitask field is a bit ... umm, broader is topic range.09:16
timelyxtrying to buy plane tickets to vienna ...09:16
roopebut i'll try to check the bugzilla. although i'm crrap at using it09:17
timelyxscroll to the bottom09:18
timelyxlook for:09:18
timelyxUsers to watch:09:18
timelyxi have:09:18
timelyxin another window, load:09:18
timelyxoh oops09:18
timelyxhrm, i haven't broken you yet09:18
timelyxwell, maybe i should go ahead and break you now :)09:18
timelyxsilly me09:19
timelyxanyway, that means you have seen the bug ysss__ asked about :)09:19
roopesounds like the guy is asking to copy the iphone browser.09:20
roopeicon that acts as a multiple window selector.09:20
timelyxroope: which bug is this?09:21
roopei was just backlog reading.09:21
latzkohm. apt-get works but apps with gui and net does not. do you have any clue?09:21
roopei'm not in the office yet, can't access bugzilla.09:21
timelyxroope: eh?09:21 isn't behind any firewalls09:21
timelyxit's public09:21
timelyxmy mac is at home, i'm on my mac09:22
roopei'm on my e6109:22
timelyxcourse, you might not know your password09:22
roopeit would be somewhat painful09:22
roopeand i don't know my password.09:22
timelyxroope: i did a large part of the reorg using my n800 w/ e61i offering the connectivity :)09:22
timelyxyeah, that password part is a problem. for me i just log into gmail and get it09:22
roopethat's because the n800 was so good.09:22
timelyxyeah, complete w/ microb :)09:23
timelyxit actually worked quite well09:23
timelyxi could have done it from my e61i, but i'd have used SSH to screen to lynx09:23
timelyxno way i'd use the gui browser to do it09:23
timelyxits window handling is awful09:23
timelyxthis guy wants window switching?09:24
jarnoWhat kind process is convert python programs to different hardware?Like Linux 386 to Nokia tablets?09:24
timelyxysss__: what's wrong w/ the hardware home key?09:24
timelyxjarno: python w/ ui or python w/o?09:24
timelyxw/o it might just plain work unless the programmer tried very hard to be annoying09:25
roopewe do have a couple of interesting concepts for window switching, but not like a button in the toolbar.09:25
timelyxdepending on how good you want the gui integration you'd have to port to pymaemo or something09:26
timelyxroope: personally, i'd veto a button in the toolbar09:26
timelyxi already have:09:26
timelyxglobe, rss, lock, tinyurlbar, go, back, forward, find09:26
timelyxwhere globe is heavily overloaded09:26
timelyxtinyurlbar is mildly overloaded (and likely to be more so eventually)09:27
timelyxgo is overloaded w/ reload and stop09:27
timelyxback/forward are fairly overloaded09:27
timelyxand find has a kitchen sink09:27
timelyxthe hardware home key already solves windowing09:27
timelyxi know. i used it a lot reorganizing bugzilla09:27
timelyxand it's fast, globally consistent, and actually works well09:28
timelyxnow, if you want to get me a good feature09:28
roopewith the current  design, yes.09:28
timelyxi'd take expose or an equivalent09:28
timelyxsomething that lets me see small window previews of my open app windows09:28
timelyxi talked w/ eero about that over lunch yesterday09:28
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roopeyeah, there are several ways to do switching.09:34
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ysss__timelyx: it's an extra step, depending on how you are holding the IT, it may be inconvenient, etc ;) That's nitpicking like a crybaby probably, but enhancement no less.09:37
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ysss__w/ limited screen space, i think it's inevitable to incorporate gestures to represent more actions.09:39
* timelyx kicks ysss__09:40
timelyxanyone suggesting gestures will be shot09:40
timelyxconsider yourself shot09:40
* ysss__ deftly dodges the attempt.09:40
* timelyx doesn't miss09:40
ysss__Why? It's conceptually sound.09:40
timelyxit breaks the web09:40
timelyxit breaks
timelyxit breaks
timelyxit breaks
timelyxit isn't sound09:41
timelyxit's arrogant and stupid09:41
timelyxit makes suppositions which are known bad09:41
ysss__You have limited screen estate, you can only point at single pixel\icons currently, other than expanding the screen by smartly 'hiding' the elements, you can just incorporate motion...09:42
timelyxbecause the web applications respond to motion09:42
timelyxand then you break them09:42
ysss__How about gestures, but not on the whole screen.09:42
timelyxand then users complain09:42
ysss__only gestures that starts\ends on the toolbar, say.09:42
timelyxhow does that work when people full screen and turn off the toolbar?09:42
roopeinside the scope of the browser panning IS the gesture already.09:42
timelyxroope: which is the biggest pain i have09:42
timelyxit already breaks the web09:42
timelyxand people complain09:43
ysss__instead of back-forward (multiple icons), you have a joystick like interface (single dot), and this shouldn't break any web.09:43
timelyxand fairly loudly09:43
timelyxand not just people, managers  too09:43
roopewell, panning won't be going away.09:43
timelyxroope: actually, it might09:43
roopeno, it wont. :)09:43
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timelyxysss__: personally, i think expose style is the only way to go09:43
timelyxthat's probably pie menus and friends09:43
timelyxwhere you use a button offscreen (the app menu button would work)09:44
timelyxget a pretty overlay w/ all sorts of things09:44
ysss__timelyx: that's the screen estate expansion.. but it involves extra step, yeah?09:44
timelyxi'm not pushing that yet09:44
timelyxit's safe09:44
timelyxyou press the hardware menu key09:44
timelyxyou can't try to use any pixel of real estate09:45
timelyxnor any direction09:45
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timelyxnor any timing09:45
timelyxbecause a web app is free to rely on all of them09:45
timelyxyou need a way to say "i need talk to the browser and not the web app"09:45
ysss__well, yes.09:45
ysss__i don't think completely free-hand gesture works, due to the problem you've just described. What I mean is that it's a logical method to expand the function of existing widgets.09:47
roopegestures are useful as shortcuts.09:47
ysss__Like the joystick analogy, or iphone's sliding button, etc.09:47
roopebut they cannot be the only bethod to access something.09:47
roopemost users never find them.09:47
ysss__Yes, agreed.09:47
timelyxanyway, while i'm a power user09:47
timelyxi will not design for power users09:48
timelyxmy primary goal is:09:48
timelyx1. do not break the web09:48
timelyxmy secondary goals are:09:48
timelyx2. do not break the web09:48
timelyx3. see rule #109:48
ysss__pulldown menus are conceptually already incorporating gestures. and it works.09:48
timelyxi have tertiary goals of course...09:48
timelyxysss__: actually, it doesn't09:48
timelyxroope will almost certainly tell you that people don't discover the app menu in the home scxreen09:49
roopegoing outside the discussion scope of the browser, yes we'll have more gestures09:49
ysss__you click on the menu, it expands, you slide and navigate to the desired item.09:49
timelyxand often the app menu in applications09:49
roopeinside the scope of the browser, i don't really see much happening.09:49
timelyxi will try to provide solutions. and they probably will include things like oriented navigtion09:50
timelyxbut they will have to be modal in the sense that you trigger them, use them, and then discard them09:50
timelyxthey won't be modal in the "you can't interact w/ anything else while open" sense09:50
timelyxbut they probably will mean "you can't interact directly with things beneath this"09:50
timelyxi tried sketching it once on my laptop, i'm not sure if my laptop has blue screened since then09:51
timelyxit's hard to keep track, my mac panic'd this week and i'm pretty sure my laptop bluescreened09:51
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timelyxmy workstation has very good uptime09:52
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timelyxbut even the dreamhost mirror of my workstation has bad uptime09:52
timelyxand yes, dreamhost blames me :)09:52
timelyx[sanjay]$ uptime09:52
timelyx 23:52:29 up 7 days,  4:32,  4 users,  load average: 1.09, 1.57, 1.7409:52
timelyxbut it's not because of load, i'm not killing the box w/ load09:52
ysss__gesture works quite well on viewing documents (picsel browser), I guess the main sticking point w/ the browser is that it's an always expanding application by itself.09:52
timelyxysss__: gestures are fine for dead trees09:53
timelyxas long as the thing you're poking won't poke back, no problem09:53
timelyxbut wait until your yabber chat includes a flash avatar09:53
timelyxflash is equivalent to the web browser09:53
timelyxwait until the pdf viewer stops sucking (this may take several years)09:54
ysss__They have picsel browser for the linux motorola phone (e680 or whatever).. it'd be nice if they release for maemo, seeing Nokia already has areement w/ Picsel in the past.09:54
timelyxpdf documents can be full applications09:54
* timelyx tries to remember which other things are out there09:54
timelyxwait until media player supports SMIL applications09:54
timelyxor Flash for that matter ...09:54
timelyxthose are both full applications09:54
timelyxor rather application hosts09:54
timelyxwait until image viewer supports full SVG09:55
timelyxSVG is a complete application host09:55
timelyxhrm, what am i missing?09:55
ysss__i'm missing my lunch09:55
timelyxnow, you might say, "oh, it's only a browser problem"09:55
timelyxbut it isn't09:55
timelyxand you or whomever says it is shortsighted (and stuck in 1989)09:56
timelyxsince most of these have been around since the early 90s09:56
timelyxcertainly interactive PDFs09:56
timelyx(yes, our pdf viewer is absolutely useless and doesn't even support forms)09:56
ysss__does evince?09:56
timelyxFlash probably dates to 9509:56
timelyxin my testing? no.09:57
timelyxi tried it on a desktop and gave up09:57
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timelyxbefore SVG was WMF, i can't recall if it supported interaction09:58
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timelyxoh, there was also VML which predates SVG09:58
timelyxit kinda died, but practically speaking it's coming back09:58
timelyxthere's also of course standard "applications" like "maemo mapper"09:58
timelyxif they try to emulate google maps, then you can't use whatever "clever" gestures you invent09:59
timelyxfor the same reason09:59
timelyxthe only solution you have is something like the DOOM (?) port which has a special area you can use as a tap region09:59
ysss__Have you used picsel?09:59
timelyxseems like it requires flash?10:00
timelyxi think roope (?) mentioned it10:00
timelyxthe special area is basically my plan for browser...10:00
ysss__Btw, I don't -like- gesture for the sake of having gesture, I just think it's an underused method that -can- be incorporated smartly to expand user interaction. Both in capability and convenience.10:01
timelyxi don't dislike it just for the sake of disliking it10:01
timelyxi have good reasons for disliking it10:01
timelyxdiscoverability, failure to solve the root problem of needing a normal way to do something, and breaking the web10:01
timelyx(clearly not in that order)10:02
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ysss__picsel is a document viewer that can read all office files (xls, doc, ppt, just about all text files format, html, pdf, and various image formats). Quite popular on palm and pocketpc..10:02
ysss__ahh kfc is here.. chow time10:02
timelyxysss__/ roope:
timelyxysss__: note that we already have tabs in the browser10:03
timelyxthey're just not exposed because one of management or a ui designer complained10:04
timelyxnot sure which, frankly i don't really care10:04
ysss__i don't want tabs in n800 browser. i think it's waste of space.10:04
* timelyx neither10:05
_Monkeyneither are great reasons to consider it10:05
* timelyx considers10:05
timelyxanyway, the main reason i don't want tabs is the same reason i don't want open link in background10:05
timelyxour device can't handle the load10:05
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timelyxand making it too easy to switch windows or have lots of windows will fool users into believing it can10:06
timelyxresulting in them hurting themselves and thinking the browser sucks10:06
timelyxi'm happier to tell them no when they ask for tabs or open link in background10:06
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ysss__set a limit of open windows.10:06
timelyxpeople will complain or ask for a way to change it10:07
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MoRpHeUztimelyx: good point about browser's tabs....10:08
ysss__i use 2 to 3 (no more than that) browser windows when i have to multitask.10:08
timelyxi find myself using 4, which is basically asking for crashes10:08
ysss__i want to load new links in background because when i use gprs it's dog slow, and i want it to start loading while i focus on the current window.10:08
timelyxi'm usually only really using 310:08
timelyxysss__: yeah, thing is.... you don't need to do that10:09
timelyxare you paying for gprs bits or just airtime?10:09
timelyxgecko has a feature to precache links10:09
ysss__loading in background will help mask, or alleviate the limitations of the platform (slower performance, high probability of being tethered to slow connnection also)10:09
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timelyxbut the problem is...10:09
timelyxin the states especially, but presumably everywhere else10:09
timelyxif you're using gprs, you're paying for bandwidth10:10
timelyxwhich means anything we download for you costs money10:10
ysss__not everywhere else definitely10:10
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timelyxi say for you. because nokia pays my bill, and therefore i personally shouldn't care10:10
timelyxbut my sister complains about minutes that i spend when i call her10:10
timelyxand she'd complain if i sent her an sms10:10
timelyx(which is reasonable since it's cheaper for me to call her and easier for both of us if i use email)10:11
timelyxand most plans in the states/canada charge a fair bit by the byte10:11
timelyxnow, it's true, apple (*not* nokia) is changing this10:11
timelyxbut until it does, turning on a precache feature by default is a really bad idea10:12
timelyxif you have microb, you can see if the feature works10:12
timelyx(i don't use it)10:12
ysss__but what does bandwidth cost has to do with having an (optional?) feature of loading new links in the background?10:14
timelyximagine instead of having to click links10:15
timelyxthat your browser automatically precached the content for the links10:15
ysss__I see this having to do more w/ browsing habit and slow connections.10:15
timelyxw/o loading them10:15
timelyxnote that loading is the expensive thing to the browser10:15
timelyxit doesn't mind downloading10:15
timelyxbut loading is *very* expensive10:15
timelyxit requires lots of memory and lots of cpu10:15
ysss__I'd be pissed and confused, because that's such a wasteful logic.10:15
* timelyx shrugs10:16
ysss__because it very likely will be loading links that I will probably not open.10:16
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timelyxif you're not paying for bandwidth but value time, it could be worth it10:16
ysss__I think we're talking about a different thing..?10:16
timelyxif you're paying for bandwidth10:16
timelyxthen i suggest not opening links in background10:17
timelyxyou can easily end up downloading a huge thing that you don't want10:17
timelyxor worse, your browser will probably crash and you'll have no idea why10:17
ysss__when I say load things in the background, I mean I choose a link, select to 'open it in new window', and have the window load NOT IN FOCUS10:17
timelyxyes, i know10:17
ysss__not precache all links on your current page10:17
timelyxactually, the algorithm doesn't pick them all10:18
timelyxit's theoretically smarter than that10:18
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ysss__oh wootoff10:25
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unique311i cannot get java going on my n800 to save my life10:30
unique311installed the jalimo packages10:30
unique311can't get the .jar files going10:30
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konttoriiSo, what do you guys think of the new nokia interface:
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konttorifor the 'n', not 'i' phones.10:57
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timelyxnor 'e'10:57
timelyxit sounds like BeOS twicher10:58
timelyxtoo bad BeOS had it um...10:58
timelyx15 years ago10:58
konttoripretty good actual user test video here:
timelyxare they replacing the awful nav button w/ a better one?10:59
konttoridpad? Well, judging from the video, it's different, and I hope it's impossible to make a worse dpad.11:00
* timelyx chuckles11:00
timelyxi've seen most of those bits, both hardware and software demod11:00
timelyxi wonder if there's a public announcement about the other detail11:00
timelyxbut yeah, overall it looks like an improvemnet11:01
timelyxi'd still probably buy a gen2 iPhone or a gen 2 gPhone11:01
konttorithe latter video says the controls are of ngage class, but then again, it's produced by NokNokTv, so I wouldn't trust it that much11:02
timelyxi played w/ the iPhone last friday for <20mins, and the features it has work better than the two videos you linked11:02
timelyxand i presume that nokia put their best face forward11:02
timelyxwhereas i managed to crash safari on the iPhone :)11:02
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konttoriNice. Did it run out of mem or what crashed it?11:04
konttoriI would think that webkit is already stable enough itself.11:04
timelyxi wasn't using a complicated page in the end11:04
MKBporbably just timelyx's bad gadget karma :P11:04
timelyxalthough i had loaded planet earlier11:04
timelyxi think it ended up being a simple bugzilla page that did it in :)11:05
timelyxkonttori: all things considered, it's still not so bad11:05
konttorithe 'new navi wheel' looks quite tedious to use. The circle is so small.11:05
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timelyxi bluescreened the samsung Q1 when i got it11:05
timelyxin approximately similar testing11:05
konttoritrue. Might be a nice phone in the end. And I love the A + B button placement there.11:05
timelyxis this the n81?11:06
timelyx sad11:06
konttoriYou can see the buttons pretty well in this pic:
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timelyxso it has a b. does it have select start?11:07
konttoriWell, it has other buttons. I suppose they can be used for select start.11:07
konttoriselect start are not that used, so their placement is not that important11:08
timelyxmodern gamepads have ab xy lr select start11:08
timelyxor at least, they did when i was growing up11:09
timelyxthe wii is of course slightly different from the snes11:09
timelyxor n6411:09
konttoriyeah, well, of course xy would be nice, but AB are the necessities. XY are nice but not a must have.11:09
* timelyx nods11:10
timelyxgetting ab is definitely a good start11:10
timelyxbut it's like, hello, welcome to 198511:10
timelyxi'm glad nokia is out of the stone age and only 20 years behind11:10
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konttoritrue. But then again, the casual games you'd play on mobile phone don't necessarily need that many keys anyway.11:11
timelyxdepends what you're trying to do11:11
konttoriI don't see myself playing street fighter on that thing.11:11
timelyxi played actraiser on my sony ericsion s710a11:11
timelyxit worked quite well11:11
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timelyxi'd never consider doing it on any of the nokia phones i have11:12
konttoriI might like to play final fantasy or just about any casual game. Most of them do pretty well with just 2 buttons.11:12
timelyxand i have probably 4 atm w/ a 5th on the way11:12
konttoriI had ngage, which was really great for picodrive.11:12
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konttoriI played through the megadrive catalogue that I originally missed with it.11:12
konttoriYeah, you get 100% speed on full screen for megadrive / genesis games11:13
konttoriand state saving and loading with touch of a button. thus, it was perfectly fine for casual sessions as well.11:13
timelyxsorry, i don't recognize picodrive, is it a game or an engine? i could google, but i'm reading one of your links11:13
konttoripicodrive is a megadrive / genesis emulator11:14
konttoriuses cyclone, a pure ARM assember emulator of 68000 processor11:14
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konttoriwhich made it as fast as it was. Really great stuff from just two coders.11:15
konttoriNokia should put an emu there with DRM and agree with sega to start selling original genesis catalogue for it.11:16
timelyxanyway, i'm not really sure i want games specificlaly11:16
timelyxi mostly want it to be possible11:16
konttorinow that would make ngage a true platform instantly11:16
timelyxif the device can't handle them, it's in trouble11:16
timelyxwhat prevents nintendo someday from moving into the cell industry? :)11:17
konttoriI think nintendo is wise enough company to focus on gaming.11:17
timelyxthey have better ui engineers, better customer relations, better marketing ...11:17
konttoriit might add audio / video conferencing to mobile and tv platforms, but nintendo will always focus on gaming first.11:18
timelyxthey already have a web browser11:18
timelyxbut yeah, i don't expect them to move away from game as core11:18
bilboedanybody knows if those new nokia devices are maemo-based ?11:18
timelyxbut that doesn't mean their devices couldn't come in and kill11:18
timelyxbilboed: they aren't11:18
timelyxthey're s6011:18
konttorithey are S60 based11:18
bilboedtimelyx, argh, sucks11:18
timelyxnokia is converging on ideas11:19
timelyxso similar things might come from maemo too11:19
timelyxbut nokia likes reinventing the same bad or good ideas more than once11:19
timelyxmore chances for different mistakes and inconsitencies11:19
konttoriyeah, and next big maemo release might be a leap forward.11:19
timelyxor backwards11:19
konttorior sideways11:19
timelyxlife is like a box of chocolates...11:19
* timelyx wonders if konttori can fill in the rest11:20
konttoriyou have to work for nokia to know what you are getting next?11:20
timelyxeven if you work for nokia you never know11:21
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guardianhi, i wanted to reinstall my 3.1 sdk by launching the script11:24
guardianwhen installing the targets, it says "Adding unselected devkit: debian"11:24
guardianthen it fails to install the virtual packages11:24
guardianany idea ?11:24
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ysss__timelyx: which version of microb do you use?11:31
timelyxum, depends where11:32
timelyxbut generally the 2nd beta release11:32
timelyxi'm not certain and don't pay too much attn to it11:33
roopeWell, I at least complained about browser tabs.11:33
roopeBut so did my managers.11:33
timelyxpractically speaking, i only need bug reports11:33
timelyxi can fix things based on them11:33
timelyxsee bug 25511:33
* timelyx eyes _Monkey11:33
timelyxdid someone turn that off?11:33
_MonkeyBug 255 might be found at
ysss__timelyx: does this work on yours?
roopeSorry, so how I set myself ot watch a certain component on the public bugzilla.11:38
roopeI just set to watch that email address?11:39
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roopeThat's 'logical' :p11:39
timelyxroope: the point is you can watch anyone11:41
timelyxnot just components11:41
timelyxanyway, you figured it out11:41
timelyxysss__: gimme a bit11:41
timelyxroope: if there's a component which isn't dying which has a qa that's used in another place, let me know, and i'll fix it11:42
ysss__timelyx: sure. a few friends who trade on IB want to buy n800 if the demo on that page loads.11:43
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timelyxysss__: i hope you're willing to walk me through using this thing11:47
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timelyxysss__: i got a server error11:50
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ysss__timelyx: it should show a table instead of the server error.11:51
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ysss__timelyx: desktop firefox works fine with it. I don't know about opera.11:52
timelyxysss__: if you disable plugins on desktop, does it work?11:55
timelyxalso, are you trying minefield or ff2?11:55
timelyxoh, also, while you're at it11:55
timelyxgo to about: in your microb11:56
ysss__timelyx: firefox v2. i will try disabling plugins.11:56
timelyxcopy the useragent from it11:56
timelyxgo to about:config in firefox11:56
timelyxright click (* or whatever)11:56
timelyxselect new>string11:56
timelyxenter the useragent you got from about: in microb11:57
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konttoriI was just trying to play with fceu but I can't realy get it to work.12:01
konttoriI installed from extras.12:01
timelyxwhat's that?12:01
konttorithe nes emulator for maemo12:02
floriangood morning12:02
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ysss__Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv6l; en-GB; rv:1.9a6pre) Gecko/20070810 Firefox/3.0a1 Tablet browser 0.1.16 RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.26-812:05
ysss__is that all useragent string?12:06
konttorifceu seems otherwise just fine, but the fullscreen mode won't toggle on correctly and I don't see the right side on screen buttons at all12:07
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* konttori posted a description of the problem to internettablettalk. I hope it will find its way to the developers / porters.
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timelyxoh darn12:16
* timelyx was supposed to have a meeting w/ someone12:17
timelyxroope: i'm running nin now12:17
ysss__timelyx: yes, it's the useragent.12:18
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timelyxfwiw, our useragent is invalid12:20
timelyxbut that's not really relevant12:20
timelyxfeel free to file a bug documenting the steps you took to discover it was their fault12:20
timelyxi.e. each question i asked, each step you took to test12:20
timelyxthen mark it invalid12:20
timelyxit's good to have places explaining how to analyze...12:20
ysss__will do.12:22
ysss__Have you heard of any other sites inaccessible due to microb's useragent string?12:22
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JaffaMorning, all12:27
timelessroope: you make it to the office?12:33
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AD-N770good morning12:46
kulveAD-N770: hmm.. You're a asm guru, right? :)12:47
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AD-N770kulve: not bad12:54
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kulveAD-N770: does those functions look like something that could be "easily" ported to use dsp asm?12:56
kulveblackfin example:
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roopeWell now.13:04
timelessyou're in?13:04
timelessok, over in 2mins)13:05
ysss__timeless: why is microb useragent invalid?13:06
timelessysss__: the rule is X/Y not X Y13:06
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timelessand we have "Tablet browser" or something13:06
ysss__yeah there is.13:06
ysss__So that's the reason for rejecting microb.13:07
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timelessmight be the right spec13:13
timelessnot sure13:13
timelessbut in short, it's not valid13:13
timelesstrust me13:13
timelessbut the odds that the site *knows* it isn't valid are nill :)13:13
AD-N770kulve: I don't tried to write dsp asm yet13:14
AD-N770kulve: but looks like something that fits on dsp13:15
kulveAD-N770: I've got that running fine on the dsp now, but it's slightly slower than realtime without the asm optimizations13:21
kulvetimeless: you were involved about planning the new bugzilla components?13:24
kulvethe description for "System software" seems to be "Hildon Application Framework" even though it includes also the lower level stuff like busybox etc..13:26
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lardman_Monkey: Do you think I'm Hawaiian?13:44
_Monkeylardman: no idea13:44
lardman_Monkey: I'm not13:44
_Monkeylardman: huh?13:44
lardmansilly bot13:44
lardmanah well, I suppose aloha is mainstream enough for me13:45
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lardmankulve: have you looked at the dsplib docs, etc.?13:50
kulvelardman: quickly. It seemed to contain a bit too complex functions for me. I.e. they would probably be useful if I would like to port the whole speex to dsp, but it's enough for me to get just the basic math functions ported13:53
lardmanI've read some docs about optimisations for the c5513:53
lardmantrying to dig them out13:54
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lardmanWell the dsplib has vector add, etc.13:56
lardmanand max, min13:57
lardmanspru422h.pdf if you don't have it open13:57
lardmanThe TMS320C55x DSP Programmer’s Guide (spru376a.pdf) is probably what you want13:59
lardmanParticularly ch3 - Optimizing (sic) C Code13:59
kulve422h is old ;)13:59
lardmanis it? I'll have to grab an updated one then14:00
kulve422i seems to be newer. Dunno if there are any real differencies..14:00
lardmanokay, I'll grab that one and delete the old one14:01
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_Monkeyhey, xlence14:22
xlencey a t-il des francais ici ?14:22
pellonon y a pas de francais14:24
xlencesimplement parce que je pensé que c'été principalement un canal anglophone14:24
xlenceet que moi et l'anglais sa fais deux14:25
lardmanoui, c'est vrai14:25
pelloapparemment tu as aussi du mal en français lol14:25
xlenceun peu14:25
xlenceje viens de recevoir mon n800 et j'ai des questions. y a t-il quelqu'un qui a un peu de temps pour m'aider ?14:26
pelloje viens de terminer l'apéro14:26
pelloc'est l'heure de manger14:26
lardmanoui, mais seulement avec francais facilement14:27
pellomais vas-y14:27
lardmanThe other option is a private conversation to avoid contravening the English only rule14:28
celesteh_rulesje parle un peu de français.  Qu'est que c'est vos questions?14:28
celesteh_rulesit's a rule?14:28
xlenceje n'arrive pas a installer certain programme comme mnotify, kagu, mirage, ...14:28
xlenceil me dit que certaines librairies sont manquantes14:28
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pupnikzzztr: he's missing some libraries14:29
lardmanYou need to ensure you have certain additional repositories defined14:29
xlencehow to add repositories ?14:30
celesteh_rulesvous avez le "application manager"14:30
celesteh_rulesil faut que vous avoir plus de "repositories"14:30
celesteh_rulesil y a un menu qui s'apple 'Tools'14:31
pupnikzzz   there's a repository index i hadn't seen before - nice overview14:31
celesteh_ruleset la il y a un Application Catalog14:31
celesteh_rulescliquez ça14:31
lardmanwould be good if it had install files for each repo too14:31
pupnikzzzgreat idea14:32
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pupnikzzzi wonder how one would say "one needs to add repositories in the application manager"?  On peut ...14:35
lardmanOn doit14:36
pupnikzzzheh ok :)14:36
celesteh_rulescliquez "new"14:37
celesteh_rulesici, c'est une liste de repositories:
celesteh_rulesutilizez cette list pour mettre neuveaux repositories dans le applications manager14:37
celesteh_rulespour example:  catalog name:  Debian Nokia repository , Web address: , Distribution: bora, Components: free non-free14:37
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celesteh_ruleswhat, my mangled french not good enough?  ;)14:37
lardmancertainly faster than mine :)14:37
celesteh_rulesi lived in france for a year, but, to aparaphrase mark twain, i never did have any luck getting those folks to understand their own language14:39
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xlenceok j'ai pu installer mnotify et kagu grace à : bora | free non-free14:41
xlencemerci pour votre aide14:41
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xlenceil ni a plus que skype que je n'arrive pas à installer14:44
melmoth"Il faut ajouter des repository dans le gestionnaire de programmes"14:44
xlenceapplications manquantes : osso-dsp-modules-rx-34 , libplayback-1.0 ........14:44
melmothi use "repository" even when speaking french.14:44
xlencemais lequel ?14:44
xlenceetant basé sur Debian, ni a t-il pas un fichier liste avec les repository que vous pourriez m'envoyer avfin de remplacer le mien ?14:46
xlencegenre sources.list14:46
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melmothil ya un sources.list14:46
melmothxlence tu as deja un xtemr ou ssh d installé ?14:46
xlencexterm oui14:47
lardmanDo you have the latest flash image? Skype should just install without problems14:47
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melmothfarpait.tu as le meme probleme en utilisant apt-get plutot que le gestionnaire graphique la ?14:47
melmothEt deuxieme piste: sois sur d activer le mode 'red pill'14:47
pupnikzzzhmm "ajouter" - to add-to14:47
xlencema version est IT OS 2007 ver. 3.2007.10-714:47
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xlencec'est quoi le mode red pill ?14:48
melmothbouge pas14:48
celesteh_rulesje pense que c'est necessaire à 'flash' votre n800 avec un neu 'operating system'14:48
melmothJe pense qu'il est necessaire de reflasher ton n800 avec une nouveau systeme d exploitation :)14:48
melmotheffectivement skype il marhe que avec le dernier qui est plsu recent14:49
lardmanSee what the version is - control panel or "cat /proc/version" ?14:49
lardmannot sure about the last one, but something buried under /proc14:50
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xlencej'ai activé le mode red pill14:51
xlencecela me fais un peu peur de le flascher alors que je viens juste de le recevoir et que je ne le maitrise pas encore14:51
xlenceest ce simple ?14:51
kulvecat /etc/osso_software_version14:51
melmothc est tres simple xlence14:51
xlencememe en etant sur un pc avec linux ?14:51
melmothje ne sais pas comment ca se passe ailleurs que sous linux14:52
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* pupnik sits in the corner and plays accordion14:53
melmothtu trouve l application flasher qui va bien avec ta distrib. Tu trouve le firmware qui va bien avec ta tablette14:53
melmothdiatonic one ?14:53
zeenixam i on the wrong channel? :)14:53
lardmanmais voir le version tout d'abord14:53
melmothAnd now for your french lesson :)14:53
lardmanzeenix: We're learing french :)14:53
derfI would've gone with "on a besoin de" instead of "on doit", but French class was a long time ago.14:54
pupnik"It's like.. they've got a different word for *everything*!" - Steve Martin14:54
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lardmanderf: True, I was going for a commanding attitude ;)14:54
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derfWell, then, carry on.14:55
zeenixlardman: what for? even jean-luc pickard doesn't speak french14:55
melmothxlence la derniere version est bien RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.26-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin14:55
lardmanzeenix: We took pity on a chap who doesn't speak English, but he's probably still better than we are14:56
lardmanat English ;)14:56
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xlenceok je suis sous ubuntu feisty, mais sur le site il ni a que pour dapper et il n'est pas préciser comme sur les autres si c'est pour le n800 ou e n77014:57
pupnikmelmoth: vous etes sure il n'a pas le it2007 version moste recente?14:58
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melmothi am .14:58
xlencela version flasher-3.0-static est elle bonne autrement ? sachant que mon pc est sous intel ?14:59
melmothsource= (you need to log in with your n800 mac address first)14:59
timelesskulve: yes, i haven't gotten around to fixing the description14:59
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timelessprovide a better description and i'll use it :)14:59
lardmanxlence: Oui, il va marcher14:59
lardmanor elle va marche14:59
melmothxlence, ca devrait pas poser de pb, tu as choisi static, donc meme si tu nas pas les lib qu il faut, elles sont dans le binaire15:00
xlenceok, je suis entrain d'essayer d'enlever la batterie... y a un truc ou quoi pour l'enlever15:00
xlencej'arrive pas15:00
melmothen general, je donne un chti coup sec15:00
melmothsinon, je crois que c est ta mac addresse, donc ifconfig et tu l as15:00
melmothxlence, c est effectivement ta mac addresse, sans les :15:02
xlenceok, j'ai recuperer le dernier firmware15:02
xlencequestion , est ce que cela va m'effacer ce que j'ai deja configurer dans le n800 (different point d'acces wifi, association avec le tel, programme installer ?)15:03
ysss__what's up, my french homey..15:03
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pupnikthis is very educational15:03
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pupnikoui, flashing the n800 will erase configuration and installed programs15:05
* lardman wonders if this conversation will still be going on when he gets back in an hour?15:05
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xlenceok, thank pupnik and melmoth15:05
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xlencefaut il brancher le chargeur pour le flasher ? faut il le cable USB d'origine ? (il me reste 1h en utilisation et j'ai un cable USB normal)15:10
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pupniknon et non15:13
geaaruhi at all, with new browser (mozilla engine) can i start browser in fullscreen mode?15:13
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timelesspupnik/kulve: got a suggested description for the System software product?15:16
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xlenceje resume ce qu'il faut faire, merci de me dire si c'est bon ou pas :15:19
xlenceon debranche le chargeur, on eteint le n800 et on le connecte au port USB du PC15:19
xlenceOn lance ./flasher-3.0 -F RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.26-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R15:19
xlenceUn message "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" apparait sur la console15:19
xlencebrancher le chargeur15:19
xlenceaprès je comprend pas trop ce qu'il faut faire ...15:19
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melmothxlence, de mémoire, attendre.15:21
melmothapres, ca reboote15:21
melmothet  c est fait.15:21
kulveI think this channel should be english-only ..15:21
melmothxlence, /msg pour du francais :)15:22
xlencemais il faut brancher le chargeur ? ou 1h de batterie suffit ?15:22
melmothje l ai toujours fait avec la betterie pleine, mais y en a jamais eu pour une heure, beaucoup moins (5mn )15:22
melmothi always did it withe a full battery (reflash), but it never has been an hour long process, it s more a matter of 5 mn15:23
xlenceok, je tente de te parler en pv melmoth mais sa ne passe pas15:23
xlencepeux tu essayer ?15:23
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eijkI have got a small problem: I installed the bootmenu and copied the rootfs to MMC. Works fine, except: The filemanager now crashes as soon as I click anything in the left hand panel.15:26
eijkWhen I boot from flash for comparison, this does not happen. Could the file manager have problems with a rootfs of ~500 MB size?15:26
kulveeijk: I had the same problem with the previous it2007 version, with mmc and with flash.15:27
pupnikxlence /msg nickserv help  /msg nickserv register   /msg nickserv identify  pour les messages privat15:27
kulvealthouhg my rootfs was a lot smaller that 500M15:27
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eijkSorry, should have read "right hand panel". Left hand panel seems to work to some degree....15:27
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kulveeijk: are you running the latest version?15:28
eijkkulve: I am on the latest OS2006 on a 770.15:28
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kulveI have n800 and same sounding problem.. Or had the problem15:28
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eijkssvb: Are you there?15:45
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guardiandoes it ring a bell: /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set15:54
guardiani just reinstalled scratchbox and sdks from the scripts provided on :(15:54
cosmoforgot to set cpu transparency method when creating target?15:55
guardianwell the script created the targets15:55
guardianand i'm using the i386 one15:55
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guardiangot it i guess15:58
pupnik_what was the solution?15:58
guardianthe package i'm using erroneously contains an armel executable15:58
guardianlaunched from postinst15:58
ssvbeijk: yes15:59
eijkssvb: I just wanted to follow up on the memory corruption issue: It's currently completely gone for me!16:00
eijkssvb: I don't know how I should reproduce it now. So I am absolutely puzzled, what was causing it...16:00
eijkssvb: I had been on a bike trip with it, maybe it was humidity?16:00
eijkssvb: That could maybe reduce isolation between circuits of the WLAN and the memory controller or something like that?16:01
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ssvbeijk: when I investigated this issue, it really could disappear suddenly and show up again with no visible reason16:05
eijkssvb: Hmm... you were in favour of a software reason, but doesn't this rather sound like hardware problems?16:06
ssvbeijk: by the way, do you have a stable wlan connection? my wireless router is behind two concrete walls, so signal quality is not the best16:07
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eijkeijk: Yes, the wlan connection is pretty solid: The router is only two meters away in the same room. (It crashes from time to time, though...)16:08
eijkSorry, I meant ssvb, of course...16:08
eijkStupid, talking to myself...16:08
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ssvbeijk: memtester reports addresses of memory which it considers bad, the point is that the offset of this bad address within 1K memory block was a constant value for one firmware revision, but a different constant value for another firmware16:09
eijkssvb: Hmm, for me it was never constant, if I remember correctly...16:09
ssvbeijk: for hardware fault I would expect either completely random addresses or a constant address not depending on firmware revision16:10
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eijkssvb: Also, the problems already started with the "stuck memory address" test. So the other tests are not very reliable according to the documentation...16:10
ssvbeijk: so this is what makes me think that it is a software problem16:10
eijkssvb: Hmm... The other thing is, that I am not sure, a user land application really sees true hardware adresses...16:11
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ssvbeijk: I modified memtester a bit to use mmap (so it allocates memory blocks at physical page boundaries)16:25
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ssvbeijk: this 'a5' offset at the end of 'faulty' address changed to some other value for a different firmware version16:26
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ssvbeijk: I can try to find my patch for memtester which was used for tests is you are interested (the links from the mailing list are not valid anymore)16:34
ssvbeijk: s/is/if16:34
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ssvbeijk: so I suppose there might be something like 'use after free problem' in wifi driver: it could probably allocate some block of memory, free it, but continue to use it, overwriting the memory which could have been allocated to some other program already16:42
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ssvbeijk: but that's only a speculation16:42
ssvbeijk: how large was the memory block that you used for testing?16:44
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eijkssvb: I tried different sizes, 4, 8, 16, 2416:48
eijkssvb: But if the problem occured didn't really depend on the size. When I had problems, I already had them with "4".16:48
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eijkssvb: did you already see the problems at the "stuck address" test?16:51
ssvbeijk: the problem occured when you were 'lucky' enough to get a problematic memory page allocated as part of your memory block16:51
ssvbeijk: with a larger memory block, the chance of catching it should be higher, 24MB is only ~1/3 of all the memory available on the device16:52
eijkssvb: Ok, sounds like a little different problem to me... For me, if it happened, it more or less happened all the time...16:53
ssvbeijk: repeateable runs of the test program are likely to get the same memory allocated16:53
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eijkssvb: well, in a way i had a similar impression: when using only 4 MB, I sometimes had to start a second time in order to induce problems...16:54
eijkssvb: with 24, it failed everytime16:54
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ssvbeijk: what sounds different? once you catch the problem, repeatable runs of memtester always confirm it16:56
ssvbeijk: similarly if memtester run was 'successful', you are likely to get the same 'successful' result if you try to run memtester several more times in a row16:58
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simon_perreaulthi, I'm having trouble installing Maemo17:04
simon_perreault[simon@ringo scratchbox]$ ./loginERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up!17:04
simon_perreaultcan anyone help me?17:04
cosmohm, interesting:
cosmothat might work well on maemo devices17:06
pupnik_hi simon_perreault offhand i don't know what that error means17:06
lardmanhow do they sense the position?17:06
simon_perreaultpupnik_: mmm17:06
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cosmowebcam currently, see the video17:06
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lardmancosmo: Ah, okay17:07
lardmanflat buffers done, time to make them circular then try compiling!#17:08
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simon_perreaulti'll just reinstall from scratch17:08
pupnik_simon_perreault: that's what i'd do - i used a debian host and scratchbox .deb packages17:09
simon_perreaulti'm on fedora at the moment. if it still doesn't work i'll install ubuntu in a vmware17:11
pupnik_there are also preinstalled vmware images containing a system with scratchbox17:11
simon_perreaultoh cool17:11
eijkssvb: well, I didn't have to try very hard to hit a bad block with 4 MB, so I am not sure if it's really about some localised bad blocks. I rather had the feeling that something interferes with data transfer.17:11
simon_perreaultpupnik_: where?17:11
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simon_perreaultok, thanks17:12
pupnik__Monkey: vmware is a Maemo Development appliance for Maemo -
_MonkeyOK, pupnik_.17:12
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ssvbeijk: probably it is a good idea to develop some specialized test program which would try to investigate the issue, for example what region of memory gets corrupted? is it a single byte/word or a large block? This information might help when checking wifi driver sources (their open part)17:24
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eijkssvb: definitely17:41
eijkssvb: maybe one could also write a program which just allocates a block and then use a debugger to create a hardware breakpoint for any write accesses to that block. Don't know if that's possible on a 770.17:42
eijkssvb: then one could really distinguish, if there are real writes involved, or if the underlying hardware corrupts things.17:43
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lardmanbye chaps19:10
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GMortIs there a way to enlarge the text size in Xchat on the N800?20:03
mgedminisn't there a preferences dialog where you could do that?20:04
GMortI will look for that thanks.  The usual buttons dont's work.20:05
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GMortThanks mgedmin.  Found it.20:09
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CardinalFangHow can I debug the booting process?  My 770 with OS2007h-e just started up from being off, and seemed to boot three separate times.  Black screen -> white -> "Nokia" -> progress bar -> hands -> half-painted UI.  Repeat twice.  Finally finish painting UI and ready to use.20:13
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mgedminCardinalFang: try
CardinalFangmgedmin, Ooo, thank you.20:16
CardinalFangAh, the OOM-killer.20:24
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_MonkeyOOM is out-of-memory (I think, again)20:24
mgedminhow did you deduce that?20:24
mgedminI don't think you can see that in /proc/bootreason or the lifeguard logs20:25
CardinalFangIt's in the dmesg.  For this particular boot, it didn't kill something that was essential.  :(20:25
mgedminI wonder if a swap partition would help20:25
CardinalFangI have one.  In fact, I went out of my way to make it double the size the UI sets up:  128MiB.20:26
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mgedminso it's not brought up early enough20:37
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* CardinalFang updates the reportingrebootissues page.20:51
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CardinalFangmgedmin, Hmm, maybe it's not.  The dmesg lists swap activation at time 293 and OOM reaping at time 488.  The order is good, but that doesn't mean the swap is ready in time, yes?20:55
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mgedminit should be, I think20:55
mgedminwhat process did it kill?20:56
CardinalFangI don't know what time units those are.  Are jiffies centiseconds on here?20:56
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CardinalFangmgedmin, It killed metalayer-crawl this time.20:57
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mgedminI don't know about those time units; dmesg on my desktop seems to use seconds (with microsecond precision)20:58
mgedmindo you have many mp3 files on a mmc card?20:59
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mgedminI wonder if there's a leak in metalayer-crawler, or if it just needs more ram than you have21:00
CardinalFangNo, maybe a dozen, with another two dozen Ogg/Vorbis (that I currently can't play).21:00
CardinalFangI have a dozen e-books also.21:00
mgedminmetalayer-crawler only indexes multimedia files (music and videos), so e-books are irrelevant21:01
CardinalFangCould be, could be.21:01
mgedminon the other hand, it crawls over your whole filesystem, so if you have many files & directories it may have some impact21:01
CardinalFangBut, it open()s or mmap()s the files to look for magic numbers, or looks at the filename.  Thorough/big vs lossy/small.21:02
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CardinalFangmgedmin, I don't know where the problem is, so I hesitate to blame metalayer-crawler this early.  I'd like to see what's going on.21:04
CardinalFangMaybe I can use ulimit to keep it in line.  :)21:04
CardinalFangmgedmin, On the off chance that you're interested in the dmesg:
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mgedminit had 1.5 megs of free ram plus 130 megs of free swap, but failed an order-0 allocation (which afaiu means a single 4kb page)21:13
mgedminI wonder what gfp_mask=0x200d2 means21:13
mgedminmy linux knowledge is insufficient here21:13
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CardinalFangMaybe I'll slurp down the source later and find out.21:20
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xlencebonsoir, j'aimerai connaitre le mot de passe du compte root22:10
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Biguphum... xlence did not notice it was an english speaking forum22:19
Biguphe wanted to know maemo's root password22:20
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||cwwell, it's well documented that there isn't one22:24
||cwr is it rootme?22:24
||cwdamned, i forget.  it's documented anyway22:25
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Bigup||cw: i was just translating22:42
Bigupgood evening !22:42
Bigupi leave22:42
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CardinalFangIs there a hook into emitting an information message to the user, like "connected to %s" displays for new Wifi connections?23:02
* CardinalFang wants "xmessage 'Text here!'"23:02
zakxyou can implent that easily in python23:03
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CardinalFangYou don't happen to know the name of the widget/window offhand, do you?23:03
zakxlook for "Receiver sample application"23:05
zakxerr, Sender23:05
CardinalFangAh, osso.SystemNote.  Grassy.23:06
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trevarthanHowdy folks.23:53
_Monkeyniihau, celesteh_rules23:53
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