| * konttori released a bug fix version of uktube. youtube videos can again be downloaded and watched with it. | 00:13 | |
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| konttori | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/ukmp | 00:14 |
|---|---|---|
| dougb | does anyone recommend a brand of SD cards that will work with n800's? | 00:14 |
| sp3000 | konttori: do you have any media with umlauts in titles that end up in cover searches | 00:18 |
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| sp3000 | konttori: see I get http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:OKdwD5DiJ7X8_M:http://www.idsociety.org/Images/PA/VRE.jpg rather than http://www.kuolleenmusiikinyhdistys.net/arvostelut/levyt/tenhivare.JPG ;) | 00:19 |
| sp3000 | which is amusing | 00:19 |
| konttori | in ukmp I presume | 00:20 |
| sp3000 | right | 00:20 |
| konttori | Well, blame it on my msn images search code. | 00:20 |
| konttori | It's kind of here we go and best of luck msn to have one chance of guessing what image user wants to see there. | 00:21 |
| sp3000 | I get Vre rather than Väre in the ui as well | 00:22 |
| konttori | Yeah, scandic characters are probably omitted at the moment. | 00:22 |
| sp3000 | then again istr id3v1 at least is useless for non-ascii data | 00:23 |
| * sp3000 forgets what encoding it assumes if any | 00:23 | |
| sp3000 | ahh wikipedia to the rescue, ID3v1 also lacked support for internationalization. It is stated in the standard that all the strings must be encoded in ISO-8859-1. But in practice, users usually used local encodings | 00:25 |
| konttori | yeah. It's a bummer. | 00:25 |
| sp3000 | apparently v2 makes the stupid mistake of allowing encoding to be specified rather than settling on utf-8 | 00:26 |
| sp3000 | so that's bound to be implemented wrong all over | 00:26 |
| konttori | yep | 00:26 |
| sp3000 | I've no real guarantee that my files are any flavor of sane either :) | 00:27 |
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| Jaffa | Cool: hon widget that allows full screen PyGame applications to use a virtual keyboard for text input. As I'm sure everyone knows, when you're running a full screen SDL application, you lose access to the Maemo virtual keyboard. | 00:29 |
| timelyx | sp3000? | 00:29 |
| Jaffa | Cool: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=71253#post71253 | 00:29 |
| timelyx | or javamaniac | 00:29 |
| timelyx | arg | 00:29 |
| timelyx | or Jaffa | 00:29 |
| Jaffa | yup | 00:29 |
| Jaffa | ? | 00:29 |
| timelyx | where should speed contacts status bar applet live | 00:30 |
| timelyx | and how should it be named? | 00:30 |
| timelyx | Desktop or Communication? | 00:30 |
| Jaffa | Hmm. This is where tags come in handy ;-) | 00:30 |
| timelyx | and is it possible i put it somewhere already? | 00:30 |
| konttori | great stuff! | 00:30 |
| Jaffa | Instinct is "Communication" is more specific than "Desktop" for that. Name.... I've honestly no idea :-/ | 00:30 |
| konttori | nigh! | 00:31 |
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| sp3000 | neigh | 00:32 |
| sp3000 | heh, that's evil | 00:33 |
| sp3000 | desktop has battery clock display usb statusbar items | 00:33 |
| tso | hmm, ukmp. just installed 1.62. but the app manager says 1.61... | 00:34 |
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| erstazi | Jaffa: on services, you have vidconvert, for online video conversion, how much bandwidth did this cause? | 00:56 |
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| timelyx | sp3000: how do i get older elements from planet? | 01:00 |
| sp3000 | dunno, it might not keep them | 01:01 |
| timelyx | darn | 01:08 |
| timelyx | looks like my link didn't get prettified the way i expecte | 01:08 |
| timelyx | silly me :) | 01:08 |
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| * sp3000 sleeps | 01:10 | |
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| erstazi | hi konttori | 01:20 |
| konttori | hi | 01:20 |
| erstazi | konttori: trying ukmp (: | 01:20 |
| konttori | cool. | 01:20 |
| erstazi | konttori: appreciate your work (: | 01:20 |
| konttori | thanks! | 01:20 |
| erstazi | konttori: do you use scratchbox to test your apps? | 01:20 |
| konttori | nope | 01:21 |
| konttori | only on the device | 01:21 |
| erstazi | konttori: you just test them on a nokia for say? | 01:21 |
| erstazi | oh wow | 01:21 |
| erstazi | you even package for them on the device? | 01:21 |
| konttori | nope. I use dpkg -b to do it | 01:22 |
| konttori | I do that on osx. | 01:22 |
| konttori | Well, it should be as simple to package on the device itself as well using the command | 01:22 |
| erstazi | yeah | 01:22 |
| erstazi | konttori: how was iceland? | 01:23 |
| konttori | great. thanks! Absolutely stunning place. | 01:23 |
| erstazi | konttori: I hear this all the time, of course, this makes me jealous, I want to visit Iceland sometime ): | 01:24 |
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| konttori | blue lagoon - thumbs up. Rykjavik - very nice small town feel city - thumbs up. Riding on icelandic horses - really cool. | 01:24 |
| erstazi | icelandic women? | 01:24 |
| konttori | It's really expensive in summer time and quite reasonable in the winter time. | 01:24 |
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| konttori | I have a wife, so I am blind to such things | 01:24 |
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| erstazi | konttori: of course, same here (I am married as well) | 01:25 |
| konttori | anyway, it's also a nice place to stop for a weekend on the way between USA and europe. It's pretty much in the middle and they usually have pretty nice deals for those stopping by. | 01:26 |
| erstazi | konttori: I will have to remember that for my next trip to Europe. | 01:26 |
| erstazi | konttori: btw, I love the paste link button, very thoughtful | 01:27 |
| konttori | I went straight to blue lagoon from the airport. They have a bus ride that takes you there and after the bath, straight to your hotel. That is something that every visitor should definitely do. | 01:28 |
| konttori | ahh.. thanks | 01:28 |
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| kupesoft_ | How to reboot my n800 when it's crashed? | 01:40 |
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| konttori | take out the battery? | 01:44 |
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| Exquisitus666 | hi to all | 02:01 |
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| Exquisitus666 | i have a problem: i need libgtkpeer.so to run my java app on Maemo ......... | 02:02 |
| Exquisitus666 | someone can send me it to me pls? | 02:02 |
| Exquisitus666 | thanks a lot for any kind of help | 02:02 |
| kupesoft_ | What does the button on the mic do? | 02:04 |
| Exquisitus666 | Native library `gtkpeer' not found (as file `libgtkpeer.so') in gnu.classpath.boot.library.path | 02:05 |
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| konttori | the button sends a keyboard command | 02:32 |
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| fer__ | hi | 02:41 |
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| gomiam | hi everyone. | 02:47 |
| gomiam | I'm wondering what is the GTalk application package name in Maemo gregale | 02:48 |
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| gomiam | well, it looks like I'll have to reflash the tablet again. I can't find osso-applet-accounts or some other packages now | 03:07 |
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| gomiam | (or maybe there's too many packages again and I need to bump up the cache space) | 03:08 |
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| ekim|irc | How can I ncrease the allowed cache in the browser | 03:38 |
| ekim|irc | I heard there was a way to bump it up | 03:38 |
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| yllus | You can do so in /home/user/.opera/opera.ini | 03:44 |
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| ekim|irc | does MicroB use the same .ini ? | 03:50 |
| yllus | probably not, not being Opera | 03:50 |
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| ekim|irc | Well...microB just takes over opera | 03:53 |
| ekim|irc | it changes the opera rendering engine to gecko | 03:53 |
| ekim|irc | what is a safe value to set it at ? | 03:53 |
| moytle | Hey, can anyone help me find a IR Universal remote control program for S60 3rd?? | 03:54 |
| ekim|irc | Huh | 03:54 |
| ekim|irc | what does that have to do with maemo ? | 03:54 |
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| moytle | Not to sure, I have jsut been looking for this for the longest timwe | 03:55 |
| moytle | time | 03:55 |
| ekim|irc | whats a S60 ? | 03:55 |
| moytle | symbian 60 | 03:56 |
| moytle | the OS | 03:56 |
| ekim|irc | Ohh | 03:56 |
| ekim|irc | What devie ? | 03:56 |
| moytle | 3rd generation | 03:56 |
| ekim|irc | device | 03:56 |
| _Monkey | i heard device was perfect | 03:56 |
| moytle | Nokia n80 | 03:56 |
| ekim|irc | Hmm | 03:56 |
| ekim|irc | Does it have ir ? | 03:56 |
| moytle | yeah | 03:56 |
| ekim|irc | I didnt know nokia put ir in its phones | 03:56 |
| moytle | and there are Ir remotes for other version of Symiab | 03:56 |
| moytle | 60 | 03:56 |
| ekim|irc | I dont know | 03:56 |
| ekim|irc | I dont even own a cellphone | 03:56 |
| ekim|irc | I know...gasp | 03:56 |
| moytle | jsut cant find the 3rd genertation software adn the phone has been our for more than a year so it has to be out there | 03:57 |
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| ekim|irc | I dunno | 03:57 |
| ekim|irc | are the nokia 770 and n800 the only devices that run maemo ? | 03:58 |
| ekim|irc | how can I run the rss reader from the terminal | 03:59 |
| yllus | hmm, let's see about that reader | 04:01 |
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| setite | anyoen use bt keyboards | 04:08 |
| setite | the stoway.. is it rechargable? | 04:08 |
| setite | stow away | 04:08 |
| yllus | My Stowaway has replaceable batteries | 04:09 |
| yllus | Two AAAs in it right now | 04:09 |
| setite | that sucks | 04:09 |
| yllus | Well not really, I haven't replaced them in a year | 04:09 |
| setite | i see they get alot of usage but im a rechargeable kind of guy | 04:09 |
| yllus | You could always buy rechargable AAAs | 04:09 |
| setite | it just makes me feel better putting things on a charger | 04:09 |
| setite | yea those will make the keyboard tre expensive | 04:10 |
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| setite | i hate that i cant find a decent retailer witht he board | 04:12 |
| setite | is yours iGO | 04:12 |
| setite | im so close to carrying a desktop sized one :) | 04:14 |
| NeoStrider | hello there | 04:14 |
| setite | bluetooth mouse work> | 04:14 |
| setite | ? | 04:14 |
| setite | hola nelson | 04:14 |
| setite | hola NeoStrider | 04:14 |
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| ekim|irc | has anyone been able to get a usb keyboard working | 04:18 |
| ekim|irc | the 770 and n800 have a mini-usb port and that can easily be adapted | 04:18 |
| ekim|irc | has anyone got that working yet ? | 04:18 |
| setite | well i know that they dont run in host mode by default.. i think with r&d mode they can be.. and that there is limited success using powered hubs | 04:19 |
| setite | lemem check though | 04:19 |
| ekim|irc | whats r&d mode ? | 04:20 |
| setite | reasearch and development.. on the n800 | 04:20 |
| ekim|irc | I only have a 770 | 04:20 |
| ekim|irc | Am I out of luck ? | 04:20 |
| setite | checking | 04:20 |
| setite | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1727&highlight=usb+keyboard | 04:21 |
| setite | check out that | 04:21 |
| ekim|irc | is there a titter app for the 770 | 04:22 |
| ekim|irc | I know there is a jauku app...because jaiku loves nokia | 04:22 |
| ekim|irc | :) | 04:22 |
| ekim|irc | I dont get it | 04:24 |
| ekim|irc | why couldn't they just put a regular usb port on it | 04:24 |
| setite | its a portable device thats why | 04:24 |
| setite | keyboards need power | 04:24 |
| ekim|irc | Good point | 04:24 |
| setite | and the nokia was never meant to hook up to devices that require desktop power... | 04:25 |
| ekim|irc | the pepper pad has it | 04:25 |
| ekim|irc | http://www.pepper.com/solutions/web-devices.html | 04:25 |
| setite | i mean it suckst that it wont work | 04:25 |
| setite | but it would eat the battery very fast | 04:25 |
| ekim|irc | its like 3 times the size of the nokia though | 04:25 |
| setite | pepper pad is not a nokia though | 04:25 |
| ekim|irc | hardly pocketable :) | 04:25 |
| ekim|irc | still pretty cool | 04:25 |
| WhisperingVoices | Does anyone know if there are any packages like kDissert/Semantik that would work on the N800? | 04:25 |
| ekim|irc | what does semantik do ? | 04:25 |
| setite | also.. the pepper pad is hideous | 04:26 |
| ekim|irc | Yeah...theres that too | 04:26 |
| WhisperingVoices | it's a mindmap-style tool (http://freehackers.org/~tnagy/kdissert.html) | 04:26 |
| ekim|irc | also...the nokia runs debian | 04:26 |
| ekim|irc | the best operating system EVAR | 04:26 |
| setite | yea | 04:26 |
| ekim|irc | and the PP runs fedora core | 04:26 |
| ekim|irc | I had a chance to talk to the developer | 04:26 |
| setite | i mean the onde thing i wish the nokia did was handle video just like 25% better | 04:26 |
| ekim|irc | they are really cool people though :) | 04:27 |
| setite | oh i thought pepper was a winmo device | 04:27 |
| ekim|irc | Totally into the whole open thing | 04:27 |
| ekim|irc | No way | 04:27 |
| ekim|irc | what country do you live in setite ? | 04:27 |
| setite | why | 04:27 |
| ekim|irc | Because I was gonna ask if you have ever heard of Digital Life | 04:27 |
| setite | im american.. and no | 04:28 |
| ekim|irc | Ohh | 04:28 |
| ekim|irc | its this cool tech conference in new york city | 04:28 |
| ekim|irc | its like ces excep open to the public | 04:28 |
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| ekim|irc | and about a quarter the size | 04:28 |
| ekim|irc | maybe smaller | 04:28 |
| setite | ces is open to public :) | 04:28 |
| setite | just have to lie a little | 04:28 |
| ekim|irc | define "public" | 04:28 |
| ekim|irc | lol | 04:28 |
| setite | make up a fake company name and voila | 04:28 |
| ekim|irc | BSC | 04:29 |
| ekim|irc | That sounds really professional | 04:29 |
| ekim|irc | BS Corperation | 04:29 |
| ekim|irc | lol | 04:29 |
| setite | pepper pad is realyl not that impressive btw | 04:29 |
| ekim|irc | I have used one | 04:29 |
| ekim|irc | I know | 04:29 |
| setite | the biggest pro to the n800... is the battery | 04:29 |
| ekim|irc | how long | 04:29 |
| setite | its a jack of all trades type device... and ive never had battery trouble | 04:29 |
| ekim|irc | Ohh | 04:30 |
| setite | well im never away from the charger more thatn 3-4 hours | 04:30 |
| ekim|irc | Me either | 04:30 |
| ekim|irc | I would like to pickup a spare battery though | 04:30 |
| ekim|irc | I dont think you can buty them from nokia anymore | 04:30 |
| ekim|irc | Im pretty sutre the EOL'd the 770 | 04:30 |
| setite | it seems between music streaming.. with bluetooth tethering.. fullscreen video and web browsing i would get 5 or so hours out of it | 04:31 |
| setite | i hella plan to buy a second battery just in case | 04:31 |
| setite | though i know i will never need to pop it in | 04:31 |
| setite | but when i get around to makeing this thing a fulltime mp3 player ill grab an extra battery | 04:31 |
| WhisperingVoices | I guess that's a "no" to mindmap-type programs that work on the n800 then :/ | 04:31 |
| setite | haha no idea WhisperingVoices | 04:31 |
| ekim|irc | Hmm | 04:32 |
| ekim|irc | Not so sure | 04:32 |
| ekim|irc | there might be one | 04:32 |
| ekim|irc | I think there actually is one | 04:32 |
| WhisperingVoices | any idea what it's called or how I can track it down? | 04:36 |
| ekim|irc | Hmm | 04:39 |
| ekim|irc | hold on | 04:39 |
| ekim|irc | Looking | 04:39 |
| ekim|irc | If your looking for a desktop one ... there is a great one calleed freemind | 04:40 |
| ekim|irc | But thats not what your looking for :) | 04:40 |
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| ekim|irc | sorry | 04:40 |
| ekim|irc | no luck | 04:40 |
| Biopenguin | Hello all | 04:40 |
| WhisperingVoices | hello | 04:41 |
| _Monkey | what's up, WhisperingVoices | 04:41 |
| WhisperingVoices | no, I use WINE and Brainstorm on my laptop and desktop | 04:41 |
| WhisperingVoices | I just need some sort of mindmapper for the N800 :/ | 04:41 |
| Biopenguin | I just got a 770 and am trying to get gmailfs working if anyone has had any luck | 04:41 |
| WhisperingVoices | and I'm not sure if Semantik would work, it needs a lot of libraries | 04:41 |
| Biopenguin | anyone seen any links have not had any luck looking anything specific to the 770 up | 04:42 |
| Biopenguin | I already have ssh and maemofuse loaded but can't find any docs to go past that point | 04:47 |
| NeoStrider | WhisperingVoices: some red WINE (cabernet savignon) always help ;-P | 04:47 |
| *** whaq is now known as ysss | 04:49 | |
| ysss | Hello all | 04:50 |
| NeoStrider | hello ysss | 04:51 |
| WhisperingVoices | Neostrider - I didn't think WINE would run on the n800 | 04:51 |
| NeoStrider | WhisperingVoices: it is not a complete emulator, but just a compatibility layer over X Window | 04:52 |
| NeoStrider | so it needs a underlaying x86 | 04:52 |
| WhisperingVoices | which isn't present in the N800 | 04:53 |
| NeoStrider | yeah...so, it is more likely that we see a WINECE , something that "emulates" WindowsCE ;-P | 04:55 |
| WhisperingVoices | not much use for my shortterm mindmapping needs however | 04:55 |
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| NeoStrider | the devices are not meant for that | 04:56 |
| WhisperingVoices | the n800 is meant to be flexible. It's just there doesn't seem to be much software out there for that in general | 04:57 |
| WhisperingVoices | I guess I can always hope KML works | 04:57 |
| NeoStrider | so ask someone to make one ;-) | 04:57 |
| WhisperingVoices | Okay | 04:57 |
| WhisperingVoices | Who here wants to make me a program and not charge money for it? :D | 04:57 |
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| setite | anyone have luck with vnc | 05:17 |
| setite | it keeps crashing on me | 05:17 |
| setite | i mean im on evdo.. i dotn expect ultra performance but it seems utterly unable to handle it | 05:17 |
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| NeoStrider | can you guys give me some opinion? | 05:31 |
| NeoStrider | please, check out the pictures of my game on this post: http://corporatedrones.wordpress.com/2007/08/27/a-little-touch-of-realismo-or-how-a-colateral-effect-can-help-sometimes/ | 05:31 |
| NeoStrider | ? | 05:31 |
| NeoStrider | please tell me if you liked it | 05:31 |
| ysss | hrmph.. why does USB-mounting the SD cards is really a sketchy exercise. | 05:32 |
| ysss | NeoStrider: I'm not sure what to look for.. I notice the differences on the HUD elements. | 05:36 |
| NeoStrider | reflexes =-) | 05:37 |
| ysss | The Reflex is an oldie but goodie (song) | 05:37 |
| ysss | Oh, you're talking about reflection?? | 05:37 |
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| NeoStrider | ysss: yesss | 05:46 |
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| ysss | NeoStrider: it doesn't work for me.. I don't know where the reflective surface is supposed to be. | 05:49 |
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| NeoStrider_ | well..its something that the picture doesnt do much justice...but I will take note of your comment | 05:50 |
| NeoStrider_ | the reflection there is more a subtle thing to make it look more natural | 05:51 |
| ysss | where does it supposed to reflect from? | 05:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody happen to have considered a way to sync FBReader over multiple devices? | 05:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have an N800 and a 770 | 05:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | One resides in my pocket and the other in the bedroom | 05:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd like to be able to keep FBReader synced on both devices | 05:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was thinking that I could put together a wrapper for FBReader that would rsync the prefs from my desktop | 05:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | then have it send the prefs back on exit | 05:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Two problems, I don't have a clue how to create a wrapper (other than, perhaps, putting together a shell script, but then I can't launch from the menu) and I _really_ don't have a clue how to activate the rsync on exit | 05:59 |
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| NeoStrider_ | ysss: it reflects the floor ahead of you | 06:09 |
| NeoStrider_ | got to go fellows | 06:10 |
| NeoStrider_ | cya | 06:10 |
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| nelson | setite: yes, I use a bluetooth keyboard. | 06:19 |
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| setite | yoyo | 06:27 |
| nelson | setite: http://blog.russnelson.com/chordite | 06:39 |
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| timelyx | oh well... bugs.maemo.org is almost reorganized | 07:42 |
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| latzko | hi | 08:10 |
| latzko | Is that true for a home applet that gtk_widget_show_all () is automaticly called for the widget returned by initialize? I have some buttons I want to hide at start but I can't. | 08:13 |
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| unique311 | early in the morning... | 09:19 |
| unique311 | any mods or admins from ITT in here? | 09:20 |
| milhouse | You mean is Reggie here? ;) | 09:29 |
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| milhouse | oh lord... has another thread gone pete tong on itt? | 09:32 |
| milhouse | just reading your "locked" thread... | 09:33 |
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| unique311 | milhouse, yes | 09:37 |
| unique311 | the man gets arrested for stealing wifi | 09:37 |
| milhouse | i'd been ignoring that thread as it was old news... having to read it now - all 8 pages :) | 09:37 |
| unique311 | i like the thread very much | 09:37 |
| unique311 | but it seems like it got shut down, when barry was attacked. | 09:38 |
| unique311 | what ever happen to just walking away. | 09:39 |
| milhouse | didn't we have this discussion before? or maybe it's another forum i'm thinking of | 09:39 |
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| unique311 | can't wait to make senior member on ITT | 09:40 |
| milhouse | let me guess, you had two schools of thought and they each tried to convience the other they were right and it all got messy? | 09:40 |
| unique311 | 500 more post should do the trick | 09:40 |
| unique311 | pretty much | 09:40 |
| unique311 | but the senior members came out on top i think. | 09:41 |
| unique311 | last posts | 09:41 |
| milhouse | hmmm... not really sure this "senior member" thing carries much weight :) | 09:41 |
| unique311 | not sure also, but i still gotta get the post count up, I'll let you know when i get the title. | 09:43 |
| unique311 | might just ask for a thread to be shut down to test it out. | 09:43 |
| unique311 | never know | 09:43 |
| timeless | good morning vietnam | 09:44 |
| unique311 | hello | 09:44 |
| milhouse | hello timeless... are you responsible for spamming my inbox with updated bugs? :) | 09:45 |
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| timeless | yes | 09:49 |
| timeless | the hope is to have a bugzilla which is actually usable | 09:50 |
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| timeless | i'm almost done, i think there are about 200 more bugs that might need new homes | 09:50 |
| milhouse | looks like you've had a busy weekend! yes, the changes do seem to be a definite improvement | 09:50 |
| timeless | it looks liek a number of those are waiting for me to build homes | 09:50 |
| timeless | s/liek/like/ | 09:50 |
| infobot | timeless meant: it looks like a number of those are waiting for me to build homes | 09:50 |
| * timeless grumbles | 09:52 | |
| timeless | gecko's form fill behavior isn't ideal | 09:52 |
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| milhouse | i'm guessing reggie closed that thread because it was degenerating into personal attacks... and anything interesting had already been said with half a dozen different analogies. probably would have been left open if it weren't for the personal abuse, which is unecessary but inevitable. :( | 10:07 |
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| * timeless frowns | 10:12 | |
| unique311 | i'm over it. | 10:13 |
| unique311 | well not really | 10:13 |
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| unique311 | i liked the example situations that were being thrown out. | 10:17 |
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| unique311 | but like i said in my post, when it comes down to it, you don't need a good lawyer, a public defender can get you off that charge. | 10:19 |
| milhouse | i'd rather not put it to the test :) | 10:19 |
| unique311 | my N800 was purchase knowing that in NYC i can connect on any corner to connection that was open | 10:20 |
| milhouse | to be honest, anyone operating an open network out of sheer ignorance should be locked up. | 10:20 |
| milhouse | unless the network is being offered for public use I think it's a very grey area. | 10:21 |
| milhouse | and the owner of the open network might have a tough time explaining away all the illegal porn that has been downloaded over his connection... | 10:23 |
| milhouse | network owners should put "PUBLIC" or some other keyword in the SSID if it's available for public access... otherwise assume it's not. whatever happened to warchalking? | 10:25 |
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| milhouse | timeless - bug 532 can now be closed, i reckon | 10:30 |
| _Monkey | Bug 532 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=532 | 10:30 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:08 |
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| mk8 | Hi to all | 11:16 |
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| kulve | AD-N770: you pinged me during the weekend? | 11:27 |
| AD-N770 | kulve: hi | 11:34 |
| _Monkey | privet, AD-N770 | 11:34 |
| AD-N770 | what _Monkey ? | 11:35 |
| _Monkey | _Monkey is, like, an annoying bot | 11:35 |
| AD-N770 | kulve: http://www.arm.com/pdfs/aapcs.pdf, what do you understand about vfp registers ? | 11:36 |
| AD-N770 | kulve: at 5.1.2.1 | 11:36 |
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| kulve | not much ;) | 11:38 |
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| AD-N770 | I'm worried about "Registers s16-s31 (d8-d15, q4-q7) must be preserved across subroutine calls" | 11:43 |
| AD-N770 | do you understand that I should stack/unstack that set of registers in my liboil functions ? | 11:44 |
| kulve | nope, I don't work that low level.. | 11:51 |
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| timeless | hello world | 12:34 |
| timeless | to people using bugs.maemo.org, if you see <?> characters in people's real names, please let me know | 12:35 |
| timeless | bugs.maemo.org is configured to use UTF8, and i've recoded all the people i could find who were using ISO-8859-1 | 12:35 |
| * timeless finds a user hiding in @*.cat | 12:37 | |
| florian | good morning | 12:39 |
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| * timeless sighs | 12:53 | |
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| erstazi | morning everyone | 13:22 |
| florian | hello erstazi | 13:25 |
| erstazi | how are you, florian? | 13:28 |
| florian | erstazi: busy like always ;) | 13:28 |
| erstazi | heh | 13:28 |
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| erstazi | hello konttori | 13:29 |
| konttori | hi | 13:29 |
| _Monkey | salut, konttori | 13:29 |
| kulve | konttori: why doesn't ukmp debian package depend on the other packages it needs to start up? | 13:46 |
| konttori | Because I thought that the python installation contained all of them | 13:47 |
| kulve | I tried running it, but I couldn't guess all the needed dependencies | 13:47 |
| konttori | PIL is a kind of special case | 13:47 |
| konttori | I've been considering dropping it as PIL is only included in the most recent python version | 13:47 |
| kulve | the first two I found and istalled, but I couldn't find this PIL thing, so I couldn't run it | 13:47 |
| konttori | and people who have python 2.4 have too many steps to upgrade to taht | 13:47 |
| konttori | well, for PIL you need the latest python | 13:48 |
| konttori | http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/installation.html | 13:48 |
| konttori | Quite many other people have had the same problem. I'll probably add some try catch loop for the next version to skip the dependency. | 13:49 |
| kulve | if ukmp depends on python2.5-runtime package, it really should say it in the debian package.. | 13:50 |
| erstazi | kulve: for when I looked, it said it depends on that | 13:53 |
| konttori | I put the dependency there now. It was depending on python runtime or python 2.5 | 13:53 |
| erstazi | or wait, it said python-runtime and not python2.5-runtime | 13:53 |
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| kulve | konttori: hmm.. I installed python2.5-runtime and now it works. So I think it should depend directly on that? And I think most people have extras on repository list already, so there shouldn't be any problems (well, maybe, if the python needs to be upgraded or something..) | 13:55 |
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| konttori | python depends on some other repo as well. | 13:55 |
| konttori | anyway, you are probably right. Next version will depend on only the 2.5 version | 13:56 |
| erstazi | I think if you apt-get install python2.5-runtime then it installs python2.5 as well | 13:56 |
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| kulve | konttori: according to the url you gave me, the python-runtime needs only the extras repo (at least the .install doesn't include others). Hmm. or was it so that the app.mgr. doesn't know how to add multiple repositories.. Well, worksforme. | 13:57 |
| konttori | there was that base repo. I didn't what repo that includes | 13:58 |
| konttori | deb http://repository.maemo.org gregale free non-free | 13:58 |
| konttori | deb http://repository.maemo.org bora free non-free | 13:58 |
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| konttori | So, it needs extras and that repository.maemo.org | 13:59 |
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| konttori | don't know why all that stuff isn't just in the extras repo | 13:59 |
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| erstazi | hello sameo | 14:00 |
| kulve | konttori: can be. I have the base repo and the extras.. | 14:06 |
| kulve | and yes, I noticed only now that the url had two .install files.. I just ignored the other button first.. | 14:08 |
| erstazi | kulve: do you have OS2006 or OS2007? | 14:08 |
| kulve | 7 | 14:08 |
| erstazi | ok | 14:09 |
| konttori | could it be that the other one is needed for it 2006? | 14:13 |
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| * timeless findds a cool bug | 14:50 | |
| timeless | hello world | 14:51 |
| timeless | i'm taking a survey | 14:51 |
| timeless | if you were going to file a bug in bugs.maemo.org about "Device lock", where would you expect it to be? | 14:51 |
| * timeless pokes kulve and konttori | 14:52 | |
| melmoth | Desktop ? | 14:54 |
| _Monkey | Desktop is a product | 14:54 |
| melmoth | there is no 'bas os' or something product | 14:54 |
| melmoth | basE os. | 14:54 |
| kulve | timeless: in current bugzilla? | 14:54 |
| timeless | kulve: no, in ideal but based on current | 14:54 |
| timeless | melmoth: we have Desktop, System management and System software or something | 14:54 |
| kulve | sry, I don't have time to start planning bugzilla component organisation | 14:54 |
| timeless | but you still have to tell me which to choose | 14:54 |
| timeless | just pick one of those three | 14:55 |
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| kulve | sys. sw | 14:55 |
| melmoth | i would pick desktop | 14:55 |
| melmoth | https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi | 14:55 |
| melmoth | System software is suppose to be hildon specific | 14:55 |
| timeless | melmoth: the description needs an update | 14:55 |
| timeless | it include the xserver | 14:56 |
| timeless | but i think i'm going to pick Desktop | 14:56 |
| timeless | s/include/includes/ | 14:56 |
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| * timeless ponders | 14:59 | |
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| timeless | wow, i found a second spam entry in bugs.maemo | 15:04 |
| timeless | ok, if someone wants to see something which is presumably adult spam, there's one attachment that isn't hidden, you're welcome to search for it | 15:06 |
| timeless | the plain text seems to be italian :) | 15:06 |
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| c0ffee | that was easy to spot | 15:12 |
| timeless | you found it? | 15:12 |
| c0ffee | there are only ~200 bugs with an attachment | 15:12 |
| timeless | heh | 15:12 |
| c0ffee | just search for the word 'attachment' | 15:13 |
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| konttori_ | timeless: I guess you decided it will fall into the system software category. What kind of bug is it (apart from jamming the system)? | 15:19 |
| konttori_ | ahh... sorry, desktop. | 15:19 |
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| konttori_ | I would choose system software (otoh, might depend on the root cause of the bug) | 15:20 |
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| timeless | konttori: i've stuck a few bugs in already | 15:21 |
| timeless | you can review them and we can move the component later if people think i made the wrong decission | 15:21 |
| timeless | amusingly, i can't check the internal system for reference | 15:21 |
| timeless | there is no component for it :) | 15:21 |
| timeless | (there is for the localization, and the specification) | 15:22 |
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| konttori_ | way to go! | 15:22 |
| db48x | timeless: is there a tinderbox or buildbot setup for microb? | 15:23 |
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| timeless | db48x: there's a tinderbox internally | 15:26 |
| timeless | actually, i think it's public | 15:26 |
| timeless | http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showbuilds.cgi?tree=MozillaTest&maxdate=1185798427&legend=0 | 15:27 |
| timeless | we think that XULRunner min % is ours :) | 15:27 |
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| timeless | yeah | 15:28 |
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| timeless | ok, so it turns out we only have 2 hits by this guy | 15:29 |
| timeless | he's also responsibl for the bug i stuck in my graveyard | 15:30 |
| timeless | s/l /le / | 15:30 |
| infobot | timeless meant: he's also responsible for the bug i stuck in my graveyard | 15:30 |
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| db48x | heh | 15:31 |
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| timeless | ok. i've made that attachment as hard to reach as i can i believe in the current bugzilla | 15:32 |
| timeless | on bmo, i'd set the private group feature and group it | 15:32 |
| c0ffee | you can mark it as confidential i think | 15:33 |
| c0ffee | like a 0day sploit | 15:33 |
| timeless | the bug is technically valid | 15:33 |
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| timeless | so it'd be rude of me to hide it | 15:33 |
| timeless | just because a spammer attacked it | 15:33 |
| c0ffee | did you just work on the 'make logo configureable'? | 15:33 |
| timeless | yes | 15:33 |
| c0ffee | that was marked won't fix anyway :-/ | 15:33 |
| timeless | are you getting bugmail for it? | 15:33 |
| c0ffee | i've reported it | 15:34 |
| timeless | oh, heh, hi | 15:34 |
| timeless | well, it is configurable | 15:34 |
| timeless | my 770 has a vista boot logo | 15:34 |
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| timeless | and i used a deb to get that | 15:34 |
| c0ffee | not in a point and click manner | 15:34 |
| timeless | btw: i'm sorry spammer attacked your bug | 15:34 |
| c0ffee | nevermind :) | 15:34 |
| c0ffee | procmail's working | 15:34 |
| timeless | i've renamed him and disabled his account to clarify matters | 15:35 |
| c0ffee | i've made the rc.d script that displays the logo configurable so it reads the filename to display from /etc/default/somefileiforgot | 15:35 |
| c0ffee | it's just missing a nice gui to edit that file | 15:35 |
| timeless | anyway, imo the place for the ui would be control panel | 15:36 |
| timeless | so that's i believe where i moved your bug | 15:36 |
| timeless | nokia 770 is being evacuated | 15:36 |
| timeless | bug 459, input method framework or virtual keyboard? | 15:37 |
| c0ffee | i should file some more bugs :) | 15:37 |
| _Monkey | Bug 459 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=459 | 15:37 |
| timeless | c0ffee: wait until i kill a few things? :) | 15:37 |
| * timeless needs to file a bug about device lock | 15:37 | |
| c0ffee | you could make the 'device plays dead' bug as 'grave' | 15:37 |
| timeless | heh | 15:37 |
| timeless | i renamed graveyard Misfiled or something like that | 15:38 |
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| timeless | i believe it's now public, so people can move e.g. the gaim bug to it | 15:38 |
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| * timeless sighs bug 460 needs a home | 15:39 | |
| _Monkey | Bug 460 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=460 | 15:39 |
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| * timeless grumbles | 15:40 | |
| timeless | there's an applications/core? | 15:40 |
| * timeless will have to kill that too | 15:40 | |
| db48x | so the only tinderbox you guys have is on tinderbox.mozilla.org? | 15:41 |
| timeless | i think there's an internal server too, do you have vpn keys? | 15:41 |
| db48x | nope | 15:42 |
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| timeless | so which kind of question are youasking? | 15:42 |
| db48x | if you guys have a tinderbox that builds microb, then I can create one that runs tests | 15:42 |
| db48x | namely pageload | 15:42 |
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| db48x | crazy, I know | 15:43 |
| timeless | sorry, i cna't follow | 15:43 |
| timeless | how does our having a tinderbox you can't see help you make a tinderbox w/ pageload tests? | 15:44 |
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| * sp3000 grumbles at the subversion ui thing | 15:47 | |
| timeless | fwiw, i'm not registered either | 15:47 |
| timeless | so i can't send back :). but good to hear, i don't think i had | 15:47 |
| sp3000 | so if I have an $Id$ in a file, browsing that in the undecorated web interface shows the $Id$ rather than its expanded contents | 15:48 |
| sp3000 | which is nice and useless | 15:48 |
| db48x | timeless: heh | 15:48 |
| db48x | freenode is such a pain | 15:48 |
| timeless | use moznet | 15:48 |
| db48x | sure | 15:48 |
| db48x | I looked in here because your idle time there is obscene :) | 15:49 |
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| sp3000 | all of them? :) | 15:52 |
| timeless | heh | 15:52 |
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| * sp3000 reverts to sloppy manual versioning | 15:52 | |
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| timeless | hrm, is glib distinct from glibc? | 16:03 |
| melmoth | yep | 16:04 |
| melmoth | glib is the gtk main library | 16:04 |
| melmoth | glibc is the c main library | 16:04 |
| melmoth | or sort of :) | 16:04 |
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| timeless | bug 752: iconv or glibc? | 16:05 |
| _Monkey | Bug 752 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752 | 16:05 |
| melmoth | no idea. | 16:07 |
| mgedmin | iconv is part of glibc, I think | 16:13 |
| mgedmin | well, iconv is the name of the API, gconv is the name of the implementation of iconv that's a part of the gnu libc | 16:14 |
| mgedmin | bug 752 should be assigned to libc, I think | 16:14 |
| _Monkey | Bug 752 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752 | 16:14 |
| mgedmin | _Monkey: yes, we know, you said that nine minutes ago | 16:15 |
| _Monkey | mgedmin: excuse me? | 16:15 |
| mgedmin | silly bot | 16:15 |
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| dazgard | hi | 17:37 |
| dazgard | i've dowloaded the nasa world map with teh links provided by gpsdrive | 17:37 |
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| dazgard | how can i use them with maemo-mapper please ? | 17:38 |
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| xorAxAx | can i somehow list/install the maemo packages via the package manager on my os 2006 device? | 17:52 |
| kikka | Can i install google earth or somthing like google earth on n770? | 17:53 |
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| Veggen | google earth is a closed-source, winelib-based program, right? So I'd guess no. | 17:55 |
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| dazgard | gg eath on n770 ?? | 17:58 |
| dazgard | does the device even have enough resources for that purposes ? | 18:00 |
| dazgard | hmmm, not sure | 18:00 |
| xorAxAx | hmm, my n770 has a dead-on-arival issues: the loudspeaker (and headphone jack) only generate noise when some app is run. is that a known problem? | 18:00 |
| twobithacker | I think it'd be difficult without more ram and a 3d accelerator | 18:00 |
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| sbaturzio | ma a che caspio serve pango in Gnome? | 18:05 |
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| timeless | is there a maemo-launcher component? | 18:10 |
| timeless | xorAxAx: google: red pill | 18:11 |
| xorAxAx | timeless: ok | 18:11 |
| timeless | oh, someone help me | 18:14 |
| timeless | nokia 770:hardware | 18:14 |
| timeless | where do i stick these things? | 18:14 |
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| flo | Hi ! I got an N800 and the email client that comes with it shows mails in my inbox that have long been deleted/moved (using imap) how can i change that ? Thanks! | 18:37 |
| timeless | so, anyone alive? | 18:41 |
| * celesteh dies | 18:42 | |
| robtaylor | flo: wait until Modest comes out | 18:43 |
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| flo | robtaylor: Modest ? | 18:44 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that Modest is an email client built on libtinymail | 18:44 |
| flo | So it's another mailclient ? | 18:45 |
| timeless | yes | 18:45 |
| flo | Hmm but will it be as well integrated ? | 18:45 |
| robtaylor | flo: i'd expect so | 18:45 |
| robtaylor | flo: http://modest.garage.maemo.org/ | 18:46 |
| timeless | ok, bugs.maemo.org nokia 770 is almost empty | 18:46 |
| flo | robtaylor: Cool sounds good :) | 18:47 |
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| Blacksitox | re | 19:00 |
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| xorAxAx | when using the default program manager, can i somehow install all updates at once? | 19:04 |
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| konttori | Is modest coming out in the next firmware? | 19:10 |
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| konttori | timeless: Apparently I'm no the only one wanting page up / down keys for microb: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=71390#post71390 | 19:16 |
| konttori | Please add support for dpad up /down -> page up / down configuration | 19:17 |
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| konttori | I actually switched back to opera for the same reason for now. | 19:18 |
| konttori | I usually read planet like sites where I have long pages. It's nice to read such pages when you can just click one button to scroll to new content. | 19:18 |
| flo | konttori: full ack | 19:19 |
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| tobmaster | hi | 19:23 |
| _Monkey | privet, tobmaster | 19:23 |
| tobmaster | damn i forgot henris nick :) | 19:24 |
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| saaib | argh! my screen went nuts! lines and blury crap | 19:38 |
| saaib | (770) | 19:38 |
| cosmo | saaib: if reflashing doesn't help, it's the wsod hardware failure | 19:39 |
| saaib | is this something related to the X server setup? | 19:40 |
| saaib | I can see the shadows of the menus when I tap on the screen | 19:40 |
| cosmo | no, it's broken hardware. i hope you still have warranty time left | 19:40 |
| Juhaz | weird, wsod's still happen? one would assume the hardware failure had been triggered ages ago on devices as old as 770 | 19:40 |
| cosmo | i had the first (reported) one | 19:41 |
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| xorAxAx | warranty is usually handled via a dealer, right? | 19:46 |
| pupnik_ | is there some award for most innovative and useful tablet app? | 19:48 |
| pupnik_ | *new application* | 19:48 |
| xorAxAx | how about a useful calendar? :) | 19:48 |
| xorAxAx | anything else wont get any points from me | 19:48 |
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| sp3000 | I bet a lolcatstreamer would | 19:55 |
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| xorAxAx | pupnik_: do you know datebk? | 19:58 |
| pupnik_ | no | 19:59 |
| xorAxAx | the only really useful calendaring application - palm only unfortunately :-( | 19:59 |
| pupnik_ | have you tried our palm emulator? | 19:59 |
| pupnik_ | unique311 did some good work on that | 19:59 |
| xorAxAx | pupnik_: neat, will have a look. | 20:00 |
| xorAxAx | but synchronization might be hard in such a case | 20:01 |
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| pupnik_ | synch with what? | 20:01 |
| pupnik_ | i think it should be possible to get networking going - just haven't looked into it yet | 20:02 |
| pupnik_ | $27.95 btw | 20:03 |
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| xorAxAx | pupnik_: well, evolution with datebk e.g. | 20:05 |
| pupnik_ | do you have n800? | 20:06 |
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| xorAxAx | pupnik_: n770 | 20:07 |
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| xorAxAx | does the n800 have a calendar? | 20:07 |
| pupnik_ | 770 version needs work | 20:07 |
| xorAxAx | ah | 20:08 |
| xorAxAx | well, i am not planning to use closed source for the calendar :) | 20:08 |
| xorAxAx | thats why i am thinking about spending some time on the issue myself | 20:09 |
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| simon_ | hi ... is garage.maemo.org down? | 20:09 |
| pupnik_ | hmm garage seems down | 20:09 |
| simon_ | ;) | 20:09 |
| simon_ | ok ;) | 20:09 |
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| pupnik_ | http://www.pimlicosoftware.com/datebk6details.htm xorAxAx looks very well laid out | 20:12 |
| xorAxAx | yes, as i said - there is no better one :) | 20:13 |
| xorAxAx | feature- and usability-wise | 20:13 |
| xorAxAx | and it even maps al features to the limited file format that the standard calendar defines | 20:13 |
| xorAxAx | --> full compatiblity | 20:14 |
| xorAxAx | (e.g. templates are saved to be at the day 1970-01-01 or something like that :)) | 20:14 |
| pupnik_ | boy the ITT gaming forum is just burning hot with activity (not) | 20:15 |
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| timelyx | konttori: i suspect we're accepting patches | 20:29 |
| timelyx | except, i don't think the ui is open, so i don't really know how you'd do it | 20:29 |
| timelyx | in xul based apps proper, you'd use xbl bindings | 20:30 |
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| Blacksitox | re | 20:32 |
| cwong1 | If my app has been hildonized, does the "Panning" feature comes free by default or do I have to implement some code to get that? | 20:33 |
| nomis | cwong1: panning as in the browser? This is something you have to do yourself. | 20:34 |
| cwong1 | nomis: Panning as in the browser. Can you give me a pointer to what I need to do? | 20:35 |
| timelyx | cwong1: sorry | 20:35 |
| timelyx | panning in opera was implemented by opera | 20:35 |
| timelyx | and you don't want to look at panning in the browser | 20:35 |
| nomis | cwong1: I actually have no idea, but I guess you need to track the events from the stylus (AKA Mouse) and redraw your window appropriately. | 20:36 |
| nomis | doing this in a speedy manner might be the biggest problem there. | 20:36 |
| cwong1 | Does the mozilla based browser created by nokia support panning? | 20:36 |
| timelyx | cwong1: yes | 20:37 |
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| cwong1 | timelyx: So they have implemented that in their ui layer then. | 20:37 |
| cwong1 | ? | 20:37 |
| tko | cwong1: you might want to look at evince, or our patch to gtkhtml for implementing panning | 20:38 |
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| cwong1 | tko: can u give me the link to evince? | 20:38 |
| xorAxAx | hmm, how can i become root? | 20:38 |
| xorAxAx | sudo asks for a password | 20:38 |
| timelyx | cwong1: no, it's actually in the engine iirc, but you still don't want to look at the code | 20:38 |
| tko | cwong1: but essentially it would be simply storing the (root) coordinates on button press, then after crossing the drag threshold start updating the scroll adjustments with the distance from the button press position | 20:39 |
| tko | cwong1: http://svn.gnome.org/svn/evince/trunk/ -- forgot which file, sorry.. grep for button.press should help | 20:40 |
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| cwong1 | tko: ok, thanks. | 20:40 |
| LadaPower | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot | 20:41 |
| tko | cwong1: http://svn.gnome.org/svn/evince/trunk/shell/ev-view.c | 20:42 |
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| xorAxAx | thanks | 20:44 |
| cwong1 | tko: thanks | 20:44 |
| LadaPower | Np | 20:45 |
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| LadaPower | :) | 20:45 |
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| kikka_ | Can i get Skype under n770? | 20:49 |
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| sp3000 | oof, roaming data prices | 20:51 |
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| cwong1 | tko: how does evince determine whether the user want to do panning or to do a normal select? | 20:55 |
| tko | cwong1: different button :) | 20:56 |
| tko | cwong1: or that's what I'd expect.. you'd have to read the code | 20:56 |
| timelyx | cwong1: this is why panning is a bad idea | 20:56 |
| xorAxAx | can i easily use apt-get? | 20:56 |
| cwong1 | tko: ok | 20:56 |
| xorAxAx | or would that break something? | 20:56 |
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| timelyx | xorAxAx: you can easily break something | 20:57 |
| timelyx | but you can use it | 20:57 |
| timelyx | easiest way to break everything is to change busybox | 20:57 |
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| xorAxAx | timelyx: "change"? | 20:57 |
| tko | panning and selection conflict on user interaction level which makes it hard to support both | 20:57 |
| xorAxAx | you mean replace the binary? | 20:57 |
| cwong1 | tko: Does Nokia's mozilla based browser support both? | 20:58 |
| timelyx | the package | 20:58 |
| _Monkey | i guess the package is missing libsvn somehow | 20:58 |
| timelyx | cwong1: yes | 20:58 |
| tko | I suppose you could have a selection/panning mode, or something like start selection when dragged horizontally, panning on vertical, or other less conflicting interactions | 20:59 |
| timelyx | and oddly, in testing better than opera | 20:59 |
| tko | tap-drag does selection IIRC | 20:59 |
| timelyx | _Monkey: forget the package | 20:59 |
| _Monkey | timelyx: I forgot package | 20:59 |
| * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back. | 20:59 | |
| timelyx | _Monkey: package is <reply> | 20:59 |
| _Monkey | OK, timelyx. | 20:59 |
| timelyx | cwong1: note that between google maps, google reader, and google docs and spreadsheets | 20:59 |
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| timelyx | the browser can't get the web right | 20:59 |
| cwong1 | iphone handles panning pretty well. | 21:00 |
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| * sp3000 would tend to prefer modes | 21:00 | |
| timelyx | sp3000: i'm contemplating a way to get an onscreen overlay that lets you control a mouse cursor | 21:01 |
| tko | we were also playing with the idea of doing panning when dragging quickly, and starting selection if you hold down the stylus/finger a little while before starting to drag, but it always gets down to awkward interactions | 21:03 |
| sp3000 | also | 21:04 |
| sp3000 | try context menu on a bus :) | 21:04 |
| sp3000 | that reminds me | 21:04 |
| timelyx | heh | 21:05 |
| sp3000 | should file an rfe for long menu press to bring that up or something | 21:05 |
| timelyx | i tried that | 21:05 |
| timelyx | our ui designer vetos | 21:05 |
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| timelyx | i'm going to see about easter egging it | 21:06 |
| timelyx | the ui designers really get on my nerves | 21:06 |
| timelyx | all they've done is design extremely complex ui interactions | 21:06 |
| sp3000 | opening new windows on a bus? blasphemny! | 21:06 |
| timelyx | at the expense of web interaction | 21:06 |
| sp3000 | Smny/my/ | 21:06 |
| timelyx | no, long press of menu to get context menu | 21:06 |
| sp3000 | s,S,s/, | 21:06 |
| sp3000 | hmm | 21:07 |
| sp3000 | s/hmm/foo/ | 21:07 |
| infobot | sp3000 meant: foo | 21:07 |
| sp3000 | s,hmm,bar, | 21:07 |
| sp3000 | I suppose that works but it's kinda less familiar | 21:08 |
| sp3000 | or, someone could shoot the bot :) | 21:08 |
| timelyx | sorry, i figured out how to kill _Monkey | 21:08 |
| sp3000 | well, long press of menu to get context menu == opening new windows on a bus, roughly | 21:08 |
| timelyx | i haven't figured out how to kill infobot | 21:08 |
| timelyx | infobot help | 21:08 |
| pupnik | you can leave off the trailing / to avoid activating the bot | 21:08 |
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| tko | timelyx: uh, vetoed with what argument? | 21:11 |
| tko | seems sensible easter egg to me | 21:11 |
| timelyx | tko: non standard iirc | 21:11 |
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| timelyx | tko: i'm actually trying to overload it slightly heavier than that | 21:12 |
| sp3000 | hahaha 18€/M | 21:12 |
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| DaniloCesar | tko /whois | 21:12 |
| timelyx | specifically, if you hold the menu key and tap | 21:12 |
| tko | but we already do context menu on long press (of stylus) .. | 21:12 |
| timelyx | i want to trigger right click | 21:12 |
| timelyx | tko: no, we don't | 21:12 |
| timelyx | we=browser | 21:12 |
| sp3000 | ...standard? what standard :D | 21:12 |
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| timelyx | if you're on maps.google, long press is part of dragging the map | 21:12 |
| timelyx | basically, the web is different | 21:12 |
| timelyx | and whichever YOU UI designers are who made this mess | 21:13 |
| tko | ugh | 21:13 |
| timelyx | well, they made a mess | 21:13 |
| timelyx | and i want to remove it all | 21:13 |
| timelyx | panning and tap and hold are disasters for the web browser | 21:13 |
| timelyx | since web apps can trap gestures | 21:13 |
| timelyx | and in fact, they expect to be able to trap right gestures too :) | 21:13 |
| tko | well, web apps are evil :) | 21:13 |
| timelyx | ui designers who don't seriously consider the web are worse | 21:14 |
| timelyx | and they're really ui not ue | 21:14 |
| xorAxAx | hmm, why does the n770 reboot in an OOM condition? | 21:15 |
| timelyx | feature | 21:15 |
| timelyx | 99% of the system is life guarded | 21:15 |
| timelyx | which means if a life guarded app dies, the device restarts | 21:15 |
| timelyx | the apps are written using glib | 21:15 |
| timelyx | which kills itself on oom | 21:15 |
| xorAxAx | well, cant the OOM killer kick in first? :) | 21:15 |
| xorAxAx | i tried evince | 21:16 |
| timelyx | and kill what? | 21:16 |
| xorAxAx | evince | 21:16 |
| timelyx | most of the apps are life guarded :) | 21:16 |
| timelyx | heck, on the 770 there was one app that wasn't properly lifeguarded | 21:16 |
| xorAxAx | it had 5 threads and 16 MB RSS | 21:16 |
| timelyx | so it'd get killed by the oom killer | 21:16 |
| timelyx | and then respawned :) | 21:16 |
| timelyx | it had resurrect, but not protect :) | 21:16 |
| timelyx | fwiw, there are 2 versions of evince | 21:16 |
| timelyx | i had the one that triggered oom reboots | 21:17 |
| timelyx | you probably want the other one :) | 21:17 |
| xorAxAx | hehe | 21:17 |
| timelyx | believe me, i wasn't happy to find that part out | 21:17 |
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| timelyx | but, generally speaking, the platform is built on a really messed up foundation | 21:18 |
| timelyx | glibc => glib => gdk => gtk => hildon | 21:18 |
| timelyx | glib kills itself on oom | 21:18 |
| derf | That's the way Linux works. | 21:18 |
| timelyx | "works" | 21:19 |
| timelyx | and that's not a requirement | 21:19 |
| timelyx | you don't need to use glib | 21:19 |
| timelyx | Qt, wX | 21:19 |
| timelyx | nanox, wine | 21:19 |
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| derf | Linux actually allocates pages without testing if it really has pages to allocate. | 21:20 |
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| xorAxAx | in the repos that are configured, i am seeing two versions: 0.9.0-0indt1 and 0.8.1-0indt1 | 21:20 |
| timelyx | not true | 21:20 |
| derf | The latter isn't done until the first page fault. | 21:20 |
| timelyx | linux behavior is configurable | 21:20 |
| xorAxAx | both in http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free | 21:20 |
| timelyx | xorAxAx: i think you want the non indt one :) | 21:20 |
| derf | First I've heard of it. Where do I configure it? | 21:20 |
| xorAxAx | what does indt mean? :) | 21:20 |
| timelyx | /proc/sys/kernel/ something | 21:21 |
| tko | but if you disable overcommit you'll die to OOM even sooner | 21:21 |
| timelyx | on this system? absolutely :) | 21:21 |
| derf | Well, the point was that that practice actually makes people write software that doesn't check for OOM. | 21:22 |
| derf | Since malloc can return success, and the thing will still blow up on the first page fault, making it pointless to do so. | 21:22 |
| timelyx | sorry /proc/vm | 21:22 |
| timelyx | err /proc/sys/vm | 21:22 |
| * timelyx sighs | 21:22 | |
| xorAxAx | timelyx: do you know where i get the other package? | 21:22 |
| derf | (checking for OOM makes code much more complex in a hurry) | 21:23 |
| timelyx | err /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory | 21:23 |
| timelyx | gppg;e fpr ot | 21:23 |
| derf | Sure. | 21:23 |
| timelyx | derf: depends on how you write your code | 21:23 |
| tko | derf: and even if you could catch OOM, what would you do in a UI application? | 21:23 |
| xorAxAx | timelyx: ? | 21:23 |
| timelyx | it doesn't in js, or java, or perl, or python, or good c++ | 21:23 |
| derf | timelyx: It doesn't depend on how I write my code at all. | 21:23 |
| timelyx | xorAxAx: i can't multitask | 21:23 |
| derf | It depends on how thousands of other people write their code. | 21:24 |
| xorAxAx | timelyx: then you need a better scheduler | 21:24 |
| derf | And I'm saying having that be the default behavior encourages people to write code that ignores OOM. | 21:24 |
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| *** qgil changes topic to "maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/" | 21:24 | |
| timelyx | derf: i'm saying i absolutely dislike glib | 21:26 |
| timelyx | because even if i do manage to write an app that tolerates oom | 21:26 |
| timelyx | i can't use it, because the system demands i use its broken libraries which kill my app when they hit oom | 21:26 |
| timelyx | note: most platforms don't do this | 21:26 |
| timelyx | and in the rare cases where they do, they're bugs that the vendor actually *fixes* | 21:27 |
| derf | I'm not sure I agree with those last two statements. | 21:27 |
| timelyx | derf: i've found bugs in parts of osx where the system failed to handle oom | 21:27 |
| timelyx | newer versions of the code are fixed | 21:27 |
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| b0unc3 | hello | 21:28 |
| kikka_ | hi | 21:28 |
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| xorAxAx | i think on windows, apps are simply stalled when they cant get memory | 21:29 |
| xorAxAx | s/stalled/blocked/ | 21:29 |
| infobot | xorAxAx meant: i think on windows, apps are simply blocked when they cant get memory | 21:29 |
| timelyx | mp | 21:29 |
| timelyx | no | 21:29 |
| timelyx | windows will return oom to windows apps | 21:29 |
| derf | So your anecdotal evidence of one part of one system (that I don't even know is comparable OS X the kernel? The windowing libraries?), proves what, exactly? | 21:29 |
| timelyx | believe me, i've triggered ooms on just about every platform imaginable | 21:29 |
| xorAxAx | hmm | 21:30 |
| xorAxAx | s/hmm/&m/ | 21:30 |
| infobot | xorAxAx meant: &m | 21:30 |
| xorAxAx | no, i didnt :) | 21:30 |
| xorAxAx | stupid bot | 21:30 |
| timelyx | /ignore | 21:30 |
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| timelyx | anyway, wrt evince, i've clearly uninstalled it | 21:30 |
| timelyx | since all it did was trigger reboots | 21:30 |
| tko | so, in UI app, what do you do when detecting OOM? | 21:30 |
| timelyx | it wasn't a good thing to keep | 21:30 |
| timelyx | tko: trigger a gc | 21:30 |
| timelyx | drop caches | 21:31 |
| timelyx | use your reserve to warn the user and try to let the user save state | 21:31 |
| tko | that is assuming you are using gc, caches and have the reserve | 21:32 |
| timelyx | if you care, you need a reserve, and gc/caches are well, optional of course | 21:33 |
| timelyx | but in the case of big apps, you usually have at least one | 21:33 |
| timelyx | tko: all things considered, the Notes app is fairly good in this area | 21:35 |
| timelyx | it tends to save state so that when it dies (and it does, often), you can restart it and be happy | 21:35 |
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| timelyx | similarly, even firefox these days survives most crashes, because it's also saving most state | 21:35 |
| tko | hmm, but state saving is quite different from catching and handling OOM | 21:36 |
| timelyx | sure | 21:36 |
| timelyx | but the point is to make the user happy | 21:36 |
| [0J] | hi there .. can anyone help me with bluetooth dun? | 21:36 |
| tko | timelyx: btw, how's the cross reference coming? | 21:36 |
| timelyx | tko: well, garage is indexed, i need to go back to feeding it gnome | 21:37 |
| timelyx | unfortunately, that's preempted by bugs.maemo.org reorg | 21:37 |
| timelyx | which is also almost done | 21:37 |
| _Monkey | okay, timelyx. | 21:37 |
| timelyx | _Monkey: forget which | 21:37 |
| _Monkey | timelyx: I forgot which | 21:37 |
| timelyx | _Monkey: which is <reply> | 21:37 |
| _Monkey | OK, timelyx. | 21:37 |
| timelyx | i might try tomorrow to setup a replacement sardine | 21:38 |
| timelyx | tko: can you help? | 21:39 |
| timelyx | there are 5 bugs in Nokia 770 not in the multimedia component | 21:40 |
| timelyx | they need new homes | 21:40 |
| tko | timelyx: I'm booked pretty much for the whole day | 21:40 |
| DaniloCesar | tko, Are you the pyvirtkey developer? | 21:40 |
| tko | DaniloCesar: nah, I was the maemo gtk maintainer | 21:40 |
| DaniloCesar | nah? | 21:41 |
| tko | no | 21:41 |
| timelyx | nah ~ no | 21:41 |
| DaniloCesar | ahh,. ok | 21:41 |
| DaniloCesar | sorry | 21:41 |
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| tko | nah is no | 21:41 |
| tko | hmph | 21:41 |
| tko | I feel ignored :) | 21:42 |
| lle2 | fix dvfs and feel the love | 21:42 |
| keesj | tko: "was" does not sound good | 21:42 |
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| timelyx | tko: suggest component moves and i'll listen | 21:42 |
| timelyx | i'm making a multimedia component, do i move image viewer, fm radio, camera to it? :) | 21:43 |
| tko | keesj: well, I'm still working on gtk but xan has the responsibility :) | 21:43 |
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| tko | timelyx: no comments, really.. reorg is your project anyway :) | 21:43 |
| qgil | tko: hey, hey | 21:44 |
| qgil | :) | 21:44 |
| tko | we're even trying to move away from maemo.org bugzilla :-P | 21:44 |
| timelyx | tko: to bugs.gnome? :) | 21:44 |
| tko | 'lo | 21:44 |
| tko | timelyx: yep | 21:44 |
| timelyx | you planning on taking your bugs with you, or moving? | 21:44 |
| timelyx | s/moving/leaving them behind/ | 21:44 |
| infobot | timelyx meant: you planning on taking your bugs with you, or leaving them behind? | 21:44 |
| qgil | tko: it will be funny to teach users to distinguis Hildon bugs from the IT OS and submit them (obviously) in bugzilla.gnome.org | 21:45 |
| tko | <jedimindtrick>what bugs? | 21:45 |
| qgil | tko: I meant RFE | 21:45 |
| tko | qgil: indeed.. we were wondering about whether we'll end up having three bugzillas in the end | 21:45 |
| lle2 | tko: just run the bugzilla on git and you're just fine | 21:46 |
| tko | qgil: but then I figured DP team can process bugs in maemo and forward it to us in gnome :) | 21:46 |
| lle2 | tko: you can then push and pull and merge the bugs as much as you like | 21:46 |
| qgil | tko: I'd suggest to keep a couple of garage projects with own tracker as well, and then when chosing a wiki do it with Trac so you can get also bug there ;) | 21:46 |
| * timelyx chuckles | 21:46 | |
| timelyx | some of us use bugzilla.mozilla.org | 21:46 |
| [0J] | anyone familiar with AT-commants? | 21:46 |
| timelyx | ATA | 21:47 |
| tko | lle2: someone was actually thinking of some sort of bug tracker on top / to use with git | 21:47 |
| timelyx | +++ATH | 21:47 |
| tko | +++ATH0 | 21:47 |
| tko | I guess no one is on dialup... :) | 21:47 |
| timelyx | you're mean | 21:47 |
| qgil | timelyx: in any case my +1 for your powered Multimedia product | 21:47 |
| `0660 | why? can you get to the internet without a dialup? | 21:48 |
| `0660 | :) | 21:48 |
| [0J] | more connectivity .. never dpend on only one line ,_9 | 21:48 |
| tko | qgil: I'm not sure we can find anyone who'd want to use the gforge tracker... | 21:48 |
| tko | without a significant raise at least | 21:48 |
| timelyx | qgil: ok, i'll start doing it now then | 21:48 |
| qgil | tko: well, I succeded getting one garage tracker deprecated - for the website component | 21:49 |
| tko | \o/ | 21:49 |
| timelyx | qgil: i'd like to kill track if possible :) | 21:49 |
| lle2 | kill lotus notes while you're on the spree | 21:49 |
| timelyx | can we just offer everyone bugzilla components on an upgraded bugs.maemo? :) | 21:49 |
| timelyx | lle2: oh, i'd love to | 21:50 |
| [0J] | +gcap: +fclass is what i get when my modem answers the first requests ... dont look likt the things most ppl get | 21:50 |
| tko | lle2: +666 | 21:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Where is the repository file for apt? | 21:50 |
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| timelyx | /etc/apt/sources.list ? | 21:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, thank you. :D | 21:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Couldn't remember. >> | 21:50 |
| tko | qgil: I haven't been paying attention lately (holidays and all) ... have you managed to improve the responsiveness to the bug reports related to closed-ish source components? | 21:52 |
| timelyx | qgil: i need to get you to check on this one hardware bug | 21:52 |
| timelyx | i want to know if nokia fixed the guy's hardware | 21:53 |
| qgil | tko: | 21:53 |
| qgil | tko: where to start | 21:53 |
| tko | sounds like a yes :) | 21:53 |
| qgil | tko: let's see that I'm happy because things are moving but this is a second round | 21:54 |
| qgil | tko: however, we are going to feel soon the effects of the first round - being this reorganization just the appetizer (hopefully) | 21:54 |
| lle2 | how many rounds are there before the winner is declared? | 21:54 |
| timelyx | 7 | 21:54 |
| tko | my favorite one-digit number | 21:55 |
| qgil | lle2: there are no winners in bug management. It's a sad activity. You should know that. ;) | 21:55 |
| lle2 | :D | 21:55 |
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| timelyx | qgil: killing badly organized products is quite satisfiying | 21:55 |
| timelyx | as is decommissioning bad bug trackers | 21:55 |
| tko | the only winners in bug management are the managers who somehow get to justify their positions for a paycheck | 21:55 |
| timelyx | personally, i think that winning is being able to show faster time to fix | 21:56 |
| timelyx | and you do that by showing people that filing good, concise, reproducable bugs is the way to get them fixed faster | 21:56 |
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| qgil | timelyx: what hardware bug are you talking about? | 21:56 |
| tko | just a random thought, one way to organize bugzilla would've been to look at the structure of the others menu :) | 21:57 |
| timelyx | qgil: i'll have to look, iirc there was a bug in Mis*:Nokia about a cracked usb port | 21:57 |
| lle2 | people like to write crap bug reports, it's more satisfying when pissed off | 21:57 |
| timelyx | tko: yeah, we considered that | 21:58 |
| timelyx | the big problem is that others changes version to version | 21:58 |
| timelyx | UI designers ++ | 21:58 |
| timelyx | i'm not making bugzilla polymorphic | 21:58 |
| tko | it depends whether you consider bugzilla as a tool for end users, or developers | 21:58 |
| timelyx | i am willing to make a custom form or html page that lets people find the right component for filing bugs | 21:58 |
| lle2 | it should be like the spam filters | 21:59 |
| qgil | /qgil is relatively amazed about thie MOSH released by Nokia: there are tits all over and the most popular video is a Steve Jobs speech | 21:59 |
| lle2 | content based, bayesian or whatever | 21:59 |
| tko | in any case, I think the interface for end users should have very coarse grained categorization and the developers would put the bugs in right components | 21:59 |
| timelyx | tko: i'm fine w/ that, and i hope this is close enough to meeting that | 21:59 |
| tko | for developers IMO the components should map to source packages | 22:00 |
| timelyx | i don't expect users to file bugs in System software | 22:00 |
| qgil | tko: I think end users will find what they are looking for since they probably are looking for apps, browser, multimedia or connectivity - the rest is just so obscure no matter how you organize it | 22:00 |
| tko | :) | 22:00 |
| timelyx | qgil: and desktop :( | 22:00 |
| timelyx | but yeah | 22:00 |
| qgil | desktop = obscure | 22:00 |
| lle2 | where would I file a bug in skype? | 22:00 |
| timelyx | lle2: Communication | 22:01 |
| lle2 | which is probably in the dsp gateway | 22:01 |
| qgil | lle2: no, Skype | 22:01 |
| timelyx | lle2: Communication: Skype | 22:01 |
| lle2 | or multimedia framework | 22:01 |
| lle2 | or even more probably a combination of all of the above | 22:01 |
| qgil | timelyx: we are not having a Skype component | 22:01 |
| timelyx | qgil: we ship skype, no? | 22:01 |
| timelyx | we have rhapsody components | 22:01 |
| lle2 | we donät | 22:01 |
| lle2 | donut | 22:02 |
| timelyx | and we have an fm radio component | 22:02 |
| lle2 | we ship a link to an installer | 22:02 |
| timelyx | and camera | 22:02 |
| _Monkey | i think camera is so poor that the app thinks the "blurness" is movement | 22:02 |
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| timelyx | _Monkey forget camera | 22:02 |
| _Monkey | timelyx: I forgot camera | 22:02 |
| timelyx | _Monkey camera is <reply> | 22:02 |
| _Monkey | OK, timelyx. | 22:02 |
| timelyx | sorry, watching smallville | 22:03 |
| qgil | timelyx: you keep confusing maemo with IT OS & Nokia consumer applications :) | 22:04 |
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| qgil | timelyx: we *must* have all the stuff for developers + all the open source components | 22:04 |
| qgil | timelyx: then, appart from this I'm advocating to have whatever is developed by Nokia in the IT OS and Tableteer etc | 22:04 |
| qgil | timelyx: all the rest is third party, only exceptions should get in | 22:05 |
| timelyx | qgil: well, um | 22:05 |
| timelyx | who created these things | 22:05 |
| timelyx | and do you want them dead? | 22:05 |
| qgil | timelyx: or said in a different way, I don't see why we should open bugzilla component without agreeing with a partner this opening and their participation in it | 22:05 |
| timelyx | hrm | 22:06 |
| timelyx | interesting way to put it | 22:06 |
| qgil | timelyx: I don't know who created them - and I don't know who created many things that perhaps make sense but in practice don't work | 22:06 |
| lle2 | debian accepts bugs for all of its packages, regardless of if the upstream gives a rats ass about them | 22:06 |
| timelyx | qgil: there's another bugzilla for those products | 22:06 |
| timelyx | i have access, and can refile them upstream | 22:07 |
| qgil | lle2: you will notice more differences between Debian and maemo :) | 22:07 |
| timelyx | it's actually not restricted, you can get an account | 22:07 |
| lle2 | qgil: I'm having trouble seeing any similarities, to be honest | 22:07 |
| timelyx | heh | 22:07 |
| qgil | lle2: it was you who started the comparison | 22:07 |
| lle2 | qgil: yeah, but we're pretending that we're maintaining a "distro", no? | 22:08 |
| qgil | lle2: no | 22:08 |
| lle2 | oh | 22:08 |
| tko | btw, what was the reason for the extra hierarchy instead of having application==product as starting point? | 22:08 |
| timelyx | too many top level products is painful | 22:09 |
| lle2 | qgil: the last time I talked with somebody we were, but I guess things change | 22:09 |
| lle2 | qgil: not that it matters much | 22:09 |
| timelyx | you have to add versions for each | 22:09 |
| timelyx | and then you have really useless component names | 22:09 |
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| timelyx | and if you do have a bug only slightly misfiled, it's moderately painful to move | 22:09 |
| qgil | lle2: again, I'0m talking about *maemo* bugzilla and the discussion here is about IT OS software that is not open source, not copyrighted by Nokia and not intended to developers | 22:09 |
| pupnik | happy funtime dsp news? | 22:10 |
| lle2 | qgil: would it still be bad to collect all problems with it? | 22:10 |
| lle2 | qgil: I mean, many of the perceived problems could be because of something else | 22:10 |
| qgil | lle2: collect problems in components that receive no response? well, in my humble opinion we have delivered too mucn of this | 22:11 |
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| timelyx | lle2: there's one major hazard | 22:11 |
| timelyx | not being responsive | 22:11 |
| timelyx | i don't want to open up bugzilla to too many things | 22:11 |
| timelyx | and be overwhelmed by things we can't handle | 22:11 |
| qgil | lle2: I prefer to focus on the stuff we *must* do and can do, and when this is going like a charm the see if we want to aplify horizons | 22:11 |
| timelyx | and don't, and then seem like an evil unresponsive corporation | 22:11 |
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| lle2 | ok | 22:11 |
| timelyx | we should work around a core | 22:11 |
| timelyx | build up people, both inside and outside | 22:12 |
| timelyx | then we can slowly add other things | 22:12 |
| lle2 | I'm going to the gym already | 22:12 |
| tko | yeah, core is the root of all evil *g* | 22:12 |
| lle2 | maybe you guys have a point | 22:12 |
| qgil | one more thng about skype | 22:13 |
| qgil | http://skype.com/ | 22:13 |
| lle2 | but skype screwing up the n800 within 15minutes of starting the call clearly means there's a major bug somewhere other than the skype sw itself | 22:13 |
| qgil | where do you file a bug or even report that something is not working here? | 22:14 |
| lle2 | no idea, and I don't really care | 22:14 |
| timelyx | personally, i find it odd that we have afaik all the others but not skype | 22:14 |
| qgil | they are not doing this for themselves as far as I see - why should we open something for them, then | 22:14 |
| timelyx | qgil: all things considered, we don't want too many bug trackers | 22:15 |
| timelyx | the more bug trackers. the more complexity | 22:15 |
| tko | qgil: https://developer.skype.com/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa | 22:15 |
| qgil | timelyx: I'm trying to tell you that Skype doesn't receive bugs report | 22:15 |
| lle2 | to get the damn errors recorded so that hiroshi can use that as basis of starting to guess where the problem might be | 22:15 |
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| qgil | ah cool so there we go: | 22:15 |
| lle2 | because it probably is not at all skype related, even if that triggers it | 22:16 |
| lle2 | but if people can't file it against that, where will they file it? | 22:16 |
| erstazi | lle2: what app do you use to use skype? | 22:17 |
| lle2 | erstazi: skype? | 22:17 |
| _Monkey | rumour has it skype is excited about the N800 too | 22:17 |
| qgil | keeping my answer to tko: | 22:17 |
| qgil | first what is maemo + IT OSS | 22:17 |
| qgil | then what is closed + copyrighted by Nokia | 22:17 |
| qgil | when this is in place, let's discuss about all the rest | 22:18 |
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| xorAxAx | hmm, did anyone port wesnoth? | 22:18 |
| lle2 | qgil: I have a personal interest in this because I filed a bug about skype and had to put against some picture viewer or something like that | 22:18 |
| timelyx | heh | 22:18 |
| lle2 | qgil: and it never got any reply from anybody | 22:18 |
| lle2 | I think it's still there | 22:18 |
| qgil | lle2: do you think Skype has the right to decide if they want a component in bugs.maemo.org not? | 22:19 |
| lle2 | qgil: they have no right | 22:19 |
| derf | xorAxAx: Yes. | 22:19 |
| robtaylor | qgil: they probably have a trademark on 'Skype' | 22:19 |
| timelyx | they do | 22:20 |
| derf | It runs exceeding slow and you _need_ a swap file or it will OOM all over the place, but it does work. | 22:20 |
| lle2 | qgil: besides, knowing certain things, it would help "us" if we collected the damn bugs in that damn thing | 22:20 |
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| xorAxAx | derf: :-) | 22:20 |
| qgil | lle2: ok, noted | 22:20 |
| timelyx | qgil: i agree w/ lle2 on that point | 22:21 |
| qgil | lle2: still, people nowadays are mainly complaining about other stuff in our bugzilla, and it's about our responsiveness in our own components - this is where I'm focusing my (limited) energies now | 22:21 |
| timelyx | but yes, responsiveness is more important in the short term | 22:21 |
| lle2 | qgil: skype is as close to being our own as it gets without it being | 22:22 |
| timelyx | especially given that i doubt skype turnaround will be very fast | 22:22 |
| lle2 | qgil: same goes for flash | 22:22 |
| timelyx | lle2: we have a flash component :) | 22:22 |
| qgil | lle2: you download Skype, Flash is in the device | 22:22 |
| timelyx | qgil: that doesn't explain camera/rhapsody/fm-radio | 22:23 |
| qgil | lle2: anyway, I'm not saying you are not right | 22:23 |
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| erstazi | wait, who packaged Skype to work on OS2007? | 22:23 |
| qgil | I'm only saying that first things first - I'm not lookign for an impossible perfection, just a little progress on every step | 22:23 |
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| qgil | now I couldn't care less about Skype bugs in bugs.maemo.org, really | 22:24 |
| timelyx | erstazi: we probably can't say | 22:24 |
| lle2 | qgil: I think the important thing is to have a component for the top 10 apps people actually use on the device | 22:24 |
| qgil | timelyx: camera `fm radio are developed by Nokia | 22:24 |
| qgil | rhapsody - I can't care less either, and I don't know who created that component either | 22:24 |
| timelyx | qgil: how much do you know about skype? | 22:24 |
| timelyx | /msg | 22:24 |
| qgil | timelyx: I know about our contractual relation | 22:25 |
| erstazi | lle2: where did you install skype from? can you check your applications manager and see who packaged it? | 22:25 |
| lle2 | erstazi: I know full well who did it | 22:25 |
| erstazi | lle2: ok | 22:25 |
| erstazi | lle2: well, actually I am just curious (: | 22:26 |
| lle2 | erstazi: :) | 22:26 |
| * zeenix doesn't know anything | 22:26 | |
| erstazi | and I suspected you downloaded it from http://www.skype.com/download/skype/mobile/n800/ | 22:26 |
| erstazi | then followed the deb to http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/ | 22:27 |
| jufo | so will be Modest available for N800 (betas before final?) | 22:28 |
| jufo | when | 22:28 |
| timelyx | jufo: it's doubtful we could say if we knew | 22:28 |
| timelyx | those tend to be announced surprises | 22:28 |
| qgil | jufo: you can try Modest already if you are able to compile it :) | 22:28 |
| timelyx | yeah, just get it from svn | 22:29 |
| jufo | if it's usable, please release beta ;-) | 22:29 |
| erstazi | jufo: you can always compile it and then be able to use it (: | 22:29 |
| jufo | i guess it's not usable yeat | 22:29 |
| jufo | yet | 22:29 |
| qgil | Modest will probably follow a similar path then the Mozilla engine and the RTComm uopdate, yes | 22:30 |
| qgil | so let me conclude about the previous discussion | 22:31 |
| qgil | currently we are organbizing and cleaning components | 22:31 |
| qgil | the orinciple is that every existing component should have direct maintainers behind | 22:31 |
| qgil | being the developer-related components and the OSS developed by Nokia the required compoennts | 22:32 |
| qgil | the next path to grow is non-open software developed and signed by Nokia | 22:32 |
| qgil | if there is maintainer there will be component | 22:33 |
| qgil | and when all this is working relatively well it will be much easier to "conquer" the rest that makes sense to conquer | 22:33 |
| qgil | trying to get this final step without the previous... | 22:33 |
| qgil | a) is almost a warranty of defeat and | 22:33 |
| qgil | b) it has been tried in the past - and I'm not feeling like repeating known mistakes | 22:34 |
| qgil | people can come and say how bad this is - fair enough, they probably have a point | 22:34 |
| qgil | as far as there is progress, I'm happy though | 22:34 |
| qgil | ufff, thanks ;) | 22:34 |
| lle2 | so will skype get its own component? :) | 22:35 |
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| * lle2 has trouble processing the set of rules governing component creation | 22:36 | |
| timelyx | lle2: sounds like a no. sorry, i've been convinced | 22:36 |
| timelyx | atm, the rules are basically, i can create unless qgil vetos | 22:36 |
| lle2 | great | 22:36 |
| timelyx | and i was delivered mine | 22:36 |
| lle2 | I'll file my next skype bug against the browser then | 22:36 |
| timelyx | that's fine | 22:37 |
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| timelyx | i'll refile internally and move to the Misdirected:Nokia component | 22:37 |
| timelyx | i'm quite serious | 22:37 |
| amr | anyone here ever used theme maker? | 22:37 |
| lle2 | timelyx: ok | 22:37 |
| timelyx | most likely your bug will be buried though as a condition of making qgil and powers that be happy | 22:38 |
| jufo | yeah i am eagerly waiting for Modest, because default email client is totally unusable piece of shit, can not even read imap box which contains tons of email | 22:38 |
| timelyx | jufo: gmail works nicely | 22:38 |
| amr | i like the default email client | 22:38 |
| lle2 | now that's a first | 22:38 |
| amr | although i hardcore use it or anything | 22:39 |
| Dasaev | claws is good enought | 22:39 |
| qgil | lle2: Communications / Internet Call - or what were you doing when you got the Skype bug? | 22:39 |
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| derf | amr: Jufo is right, the default client is completely unusable for large IMAP mailboxes. | 22:40 |
| lle2 | qgil: talking, but I can see how the gtalk/rtcomm guys are going to ignore my skype bug | 22:40 |
| qgil | lle2: then it falls in the rtcom basket, and these guys will know better if it's a Skype problem or something related to our platform - and will act accordingly | 22:40 |
| derf | It just eats up memory until it crashes. | 22:40 |
| derf | Before displaying a single message. | 22:40 |
| qgil | lle2: creating a Skype component is no warranty that the Skype developers will not ignore it either, as I'm trying to explain | 22:41 |
| timelyx | we're not worrying about it being ignored | 22:41 |
| qgil | timelyx: then Communications / Internet Call | 22:42 |
| timelyx | if there's a way to gateway bugs to another bug tracker and keep tabs on it | 22:42 |
| qgil | and the rtcom guyas are nice, I donp't believe they will ignore it | 22:42 |
| amr | im more annoyed that the tablet doesnt seem to allow me to ping it | 22:42 |
| amr | or to ssh in | 22:42 |
| lle2 | qgil: they compete with skype, no reason for them to want to process its bugs. but this is obviously not going anywhere and since skype doesn't really work on the tablet at the moment, it's not very likely that I'll be using it enough to file any more bugs about it either. | 22:45 |
| amr | hm, this is worrying as it seems to happen all the time | 22:46 |
| qgil | lle2: sorry but I don0t buy your story | 22:46 |
| lle2 | qgil: which story? | 22:46 |
| qgil | lle2: they compete with skype, no reason for them to want to process its bugs | 22:47 |
| qgil | lle2: first these guys are professional | 22:47 |
| qgil | lle2: second, di you really want to help fixing Skype? | 22:48 |
| qgil | lle2: if so, you have all the direct channels | 22:48 |
| lle2 | qgil: I don't care about skype enough to waste this much time on it, but I still think it's in the top 3 applications people would like to use on the tablet, not giving them an obvious place to file their bugs is of course an option. bedtime for me. c ya | 22:56 |
| qgil | lle2: maemo is not IT OS + Nokia partners apps - so simple it is | 22:56 |
| qgil | time for bed here as well, at least we agree on something lle2 :) | 22:56 |
| lle2 | nobody knows the difference | 22:56 |
| erstazi | night qgil and lle2 | 22:57 |
| qgil | lle2: "open source development for Internet tablets" | 22:57 |
| lle2 | qgil: mostly just "software for internet tablets" | 22:57 |
| qgil | if nobody knows, someone needs to explain in order to set the right expectations | 22:57 |
| lle2 | qgil: you still need closed code to have even marginally useful tablet | 22:58 |
| qgil | lle2: a differencde between you and me is that ultimately I'm responsible of that bugzilla, this is perhaps a reason for me to have a conservative approach and try to solve first things first and leave for later what is not a core objective | 22:58 |
| qgil | skype and the rest of commercial appñlications brought by Nokia partners are not a core objective of maemo | 22:59 |
| qgil | nothing else to add, really. good night all :) | 22:59 |
| lle2 | qgil: noted, I tend to approach it primarily from a nokia product perspective, not so much about the Free Software Platform. but good night to you as well :) | 23:00 |
| qgil | nokia product = nokia.com i.e. tableteer - zzzzzz :) | 23:00 |
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| c0ffee | funny thing | 23:01 |
| _Monkey | funny thing is that Kagu's UI was inspired by Canola and UKMP. I hadn't seen an iphone when I first designed it. | 23:01 |
| c0ffee | a person just responsible for talking to 'the community' | 23:01 |
| c0ffee | smart move actually | 23:01 |
| robtaylor | c0ffee: i think canonical got there first ;) | 23:02 |
| c0ffee | canonical? | 23:02 |
| robtaylor | c0ffee: the company behind ubuntu | 23:02 |
| c0ffee | ah | 23:03 |
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| ragnar | Good day. | 23:06 |
| ragnar | Has anyone tried using synergy on the 770 or n800? | 23:07 |
| timelyx | _Monkey forget funny thing | 23:11 |
| _Monkey | timelyx: I forgot funny thing | 23:11 |
| timelyx | _Monkey funny thing is <reply> | 23:11 |
| _Monkey | OK, timelyx. | 23:11 |
| amr | i cant get either kagu or ukmp working | 23:11 |
| amr | :-( | 23:12 |
| amr | looks like its back to canola | 23:12 |
| timelyx | c0ffee: you've been around a while | 23:12 |
| timelyx | i'm retiring the 770 product | 23:12 |
| timelyx | it had a combined component for audio/video player | 23:13 |
| c0ffee | yes? | 23:13 |
| timelyx | should i move it as is to multimedia, or split it into audio ; video | 23:13 |
| timelyx | since they were distinct applications | 23:13 |
| timelyx | thing is, they're both dead products | 23:13 |
| c0ffee | hum | 23:14 |
| c0ffee | does audio/video exist as components? | 23:14 |
| c0ffee | i think it would be more intuitive to split it then | 23:14 |
| timelyx | ok. | 23:15 |
| timelyx | that's what i was leaning toward | 23:16 |
| c0ffee | to a user, it looks like two distinct programs | 23:16 |
| * timelyx nods | 23:16 | |
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| timelyx | sp3000? don't suppose you remember how i wass supposed to spell the media backend | 23:27 |
| timelyx | Multimedia framework? | 23:27 |
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| timelyx | can someone please give me an argument for keeping a bug from mistral hidden? | 23:32 |
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| c0ffee | hidden? | 23:34 |
| timelyx | yes | 23:34 |
| c0ffee | does it preannounce new features? | 23:34 |
| timelyx | no | 23:35 |
| c0ffee | or contain security related information | 23:35 |
| timelyx | well, if it does, they're long since released | 23:35 |
| c0ffee | why was it hidden in the first place? | 23:35 |
| timelyx | because testers file bugs about sdk's w/ sdk classifications before the sdks are released | 23:35 |
| timelyx | e.g. someone filed a bug against the browser using the 4.0 classification | 23:36 |
| timelyx | so i couldn't see the bug | 23:36 |
| timelyx | which is great, since i'm kinda the browser architect... | 23:36 |
| c0ffee | well, then it wouldn't need to be hidden any longer, right? | 23:36 |
| timelyx | you're not doing a good job arguing in favor of keeping it hidden | 23:36 |
| tko | it's a matter of national security. end of discussion :-P | 23:37 |
| c0ffee | :) | 23:37 |
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| c0ffee | tko \o/ | 23:37 |
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| timelyx | ok, simpler question, Multimedia:Multimedia framework, or Multimedia:Framework? | 23:37 |
| tko | I'm from department of redundancy department, so what do I know? | 23:38 |
| * erstazi thinks "wget -rkp http://domain.com/" is purely amazing (: | 23:38 | |
| c0ffee | it will be listed as component/product, and not concatenated with :, right? | 23:38 |
| c0ffee | the first then | 23:38 |
| timelyx | it's often listed adjacent | 23:38 |
| c0ffee | then the latter | 23:39 |
| timelyx | could someone test bug 394 w/ 4.2007? | 23:42 |
| _Monkey | Bug 394 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=394 | 23:42 |
| pupnik | synergy? | 23:56 |
| _Monkey | somebody said synergy was mouse and keyboard sharing between desktop and tablet http://pupnik.de/synergy-maemo_1.3.1-1_armel.deb | 23:56 |
| pupnik | ragnar ^^ | 23:56 |
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| pupnik | need to update that | 23:56 |
| timelyx | you don't have a .install? | 23:56 |
| roope | ? | 23:57 |
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| lle2 | haha, I managed to file the skype bug using a .nokia.com webform | 23:58 |
| pupnik | synergy? | 23:59 |
| _Monkey | synergy is mouse and keyboard sharing between computer and tablet: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/synergy2/ https://garage.maemo.org/projects/unique311/ and for 770 http://pupnik.de/synergy-maemo_1.3.1-1_armel.deb | 23:59 |
| lle2 | took a while since I ended a few times in a loop of repeating webpages | 23:59 |
| timelyx | lle2: leave a url w/ _Monkey | 23:59 |
| erstazi | lle2: http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=95261 | 23:59 |
| * sp3000 imagines a fax machine mounted on a trashcan for some reason | 23:59 | |
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| tko | there's a nokia.com bug reporting page? | 23:59 |
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