IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-08-18

Silent1markBut you can turn the DS off and change the date.00:00
Silent1markand boot it back up, and have everything unlocked in about an hour.00:00
erstazithats how you can keep it from going into suspend mode00:00
erstaziI think thats what you are trying to do00:01
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erstaziVeggen: I basically have mine set up so it has more milliseconds, ... so my highest setting is 60 minutes00:03
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erstaziof course, its simple to change this to 10 minutes when not connected via power outlet00:03
erstazipupnik: if I put up a small site for maemo apps and information, can I link to yours?00:04
erstaziyou have done a well done job of maintaining the information there00:05
pupnikyes pleast do00:05
erstaziof course, I won't direct link to the debs00:05
erstazibut the information page00:05
erstazifor example00:05
_Monkeyit has been said that for example is 0x00 a valid value for a Java bytecode?00:05
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lardman_Monkey: afaik it is NOP00:09
_Monkey...but afaik it is proprietary...00:09
pupnikare you doing another dosbox build erstazi ?00:10
erstazipupnik: going to in a minute00:10
lardmanNo, just the bot is speaking rubbish00:10
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erstazi_Monkey: forget afaik00:11
_Monkeyerstazi, I didn't have anything matching afaik00:11
erstazi_Monkey: forget afaik it00:11
_Monkeyerstazi: I forgot afaik it00:11
lardmanoops, I thought you were talking about erstazi's talking to the bot earlier00:11
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Veggenok. an hour when plugged in - good :)00:12
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lardmannight all, have a nice weekend00:17
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pupnikeurosport showing adac rallye2 deutschland -- those guys are just amazing00:22
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Veggenbtw - anyone seen anything like a reverse bluetooth usb thing? would have to be a mini-computer i guess....00:24
erstaziVeggen: you have one?00:25
erstaziVeggen: do you have a picture you could locate?00:25
Veggeni'd like it to access my digital camera from my n8800:25
Veggenoh, no. i'd like one :)00:26
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Veggeneh, from n80000:26
erstaziVeggen: I am sorry, this is what I get for not fully paying attention00:26
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Phil770_I was just reading all the howto stuff on root access. There's something I don't entirely understand. I've just read the 'gainroot' script and it looks pointless, all it does is check to see if you're in R&D mode or not, and then run /bin/sh if you're not. The howto thing suggests commenting out the checking line...which means all the dan thing is doing anyway is running /bin/sh ....sooo,00:28
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Phil770_is there any reason anyone can think of why I can just add su in /etc/sudoers ?00:28
Phil770_since it's a whole 6 characters shorter to type anyway :)00:28
Veggeni just added ALL : ALL00:29
erstaziPhil770_: well, are you in red pill mode?00:30
Phil770_can't see how or why you'd want to, tbh00:30
Phil770_oh, someone tell me something which is probably obvious, but, how the hell do you simulate and Esc keystroke in terminal ? I really should have figured that out before I started using vi...00:30
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Veggenthe hardware esc ( round  arrow)00:31
Phil770_aha, thanks00:31
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erstaziI know Toma- is not here at this moment, but what theme is this:
erstazithats nice00:38
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pupniki like it00:39
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erstaziI wish I could find something like that, but google is no luck00:40
erstazineither is yahoo00:41
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pupnikdefault theme on n800 is kind of dark like that00:48
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erstazihere is the theme:
erstaziits nice00:49
erstazijust got to change your desktop's background to black and no image unless you want an image00:49
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sooleki prefer n800 theme :)00:51
soolekwith 14pts font or even 1200:51
sooleknicer than nuvo imho00:52
soolekanybody wants? :-)00:54
erstazisoolek: can I run it in OS2006?00:55
soolekthe only issue is that it make a small mess in the control panel fonts however I've just change the view to the List and it's all great :)00:56
soolek <- here they are.00:57
soolekgive a try and see, I like it.00:57
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soolekI'm currentely using this one:   themes-os07-14pt-0.1-1.deb00:59
soolekcurrently :-)00:59
erstazisoolek: oh I tried those01:01
erstaziI do prefer larger font (14pt the best)01:02
erstaziit helps my eyes at night when reading01:02
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sooleki'm waiting for the new version of the 2007 hackers edition on 770:)01:05
sooleki hope it won't be long01:05
erstazioh yeah?01:05
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soolek (google cached version of the news)01:10
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soolekWork is ongoing to update the Internet Tablet OS 2007 Hacker Edition for the Nokia 770 to match as closely as possible the latest IT OS release for the N800 and fix outstanding bugs01:16
soolekIt is hard to predict exactly when the first update will come, but the wait is expected to be measured in weeks.01:16
aoirthoir39i demand it now.01:19
aoirthoir39or not.01:19
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pupnikthis looks kinda fun - needs 24->16bpp conversion01:35
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_Monkeywork is, like, ongoing to update the Internet Tablet OS 2007 Hacker Edition for the Nokia 770 to match as closely as possible the latest IT OS release for the N800 and fix outstanding bugs02:05
sparrgizmo + grandcentral = decent.02:06
sparri hope gizmo updates their client to integrate with it soon02:06
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Veggenmmm,, just got the rtcomm sip beta to work with my asterisk-server today. next step is to get sip through my firewall.02:08
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kulvelardman|gone: I haven't yet tried it.03:18
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Junior_23Plz, anyone know how to make an adhoc connection with a n800???03:22
Junior_23im geting local ip addres all the time and i cant open anything in the browser03:23
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pupnikthat would be another good wiki article03:23
kulveJunior_23: uhm, aren't you supposed to get local IP only with ad-hoc..03:25
kulvethere's no-one to give that address..03:25
pupnik  do you set it in the connection manager or with ifconfig?03:26
Junior_23its using dhcp...03:26
kulveisn't the whole point of ad-hoc to work without dhcp.. I might be wrong here..03:27
Junior_23well... when i used a computer to share the internet with an adhoc network it worked fine... but i did the same with the n800 and i always get this... and the connection icon is with a red quetion mark...03:29
Junior_23im really newbie with this... ive get my n800 today... so theres a lot of things that i dont know how to do...03:31
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Junior_23i saw a lot of people with this problem when connecting the n800 with a computer-to-computer network... but no answers about it...03:37
erstazipupnik: are you still here?03:40
erstaziJunior_23: normally, I just connect to a wlan03:41
erstaziJunior_23: does the laptop/computer/whatever allow sharing of internet connection?03:41
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shackanerstazi: of course it's possible03:42
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Junior_23yeah... im sharing the connection... but always it catch a local ip in wal0:1 interface03:42
erstazishackan: I never said it wasn't03:43
Junior_23ops... wlan0:103:43
shackanJunior_23: windows or linux ?03:43
Junior_23mac os x03:43
shackanah :\03:43
shackanno idea how to enable dhcp there, sorry03:43
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Junior_23whats the interface that the n800 have to catch an ip??03:44
Junior_23is it wlan0 or wlan0:1??03:44
Junior_23hmmm... so it isnt getting an ip...03:45
_Monkeyhey, rik03:45
Junior_23:D, thx erstazi... ill read this..03:46
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rikright. time to install kismet. again.03:50
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rikuh. is there a way of installing a .deb but following dependancies using catalogs? i've got the .deb on disk here.03:53
gomiamrik: I was thinking of 2-clicking it from the file manager so it would launch the app mgr, but I do't know if that will work03:57
riki'll give t a try03:57
gomiam((Typing on the N800 is slooow:)03:57
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gomiamI'll have to find a cheap HID foldable bluetooth keyboard :)03:58
gomiamBye all03:59
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NeoStriderhello folks04:25
Blacksitoxhola, alguien habla español ¿?04:31
Blacksitoxhello, speak spanish ?04:31
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bldewolfhablo espanol pequeno04:39
NeoStriderBlacksitox:  un tiquito04:41
NeoStriderfalo português realmente04:41
bldewolfman, mirc really doesn't like those characters04:42
Blacksitoxbldewolf, de donde eres ? ( where are you from )04:43
BlacksitoxNeoStrider, oh! que bien, aqui pocos hablan español :(04:43
NeoStridersi, inglês es la norma aqui04:46
BlacksitoxNeoStrider, bueno, solo me queda leer nada mas :(04:52
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rikokay. pim apps recommendations, anyone?04:54
sullyshucks. Freedom Mini Keyboard isn't working.04:56
DaniloCesarHi Everybody04:56
NeoStriderhello Danilo04:59
DaniloCesarThanks! Someone answered me =)05:00
DaniloCesarWhere are U from Neo?05:01
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DaniloCesarNeoStrider, Where are U from Neo?05:02
DaniloCesarArtemisprime, Hi!05:02
NeoStriderand U?05:02
NeoStriderhi Artemisprime05:02
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, I imagined that... You recognized my name in my nickname.... I'm from Brazil too. Curitiba PR specifically.05:05
DaniloCesarAre U Nokia's or INdT employee?05:06
NeoStridernot really05:07
NeoStriderI would love to be one05:07
NeoStriderbut not YET =-)05:07
DaniloCesarSo I'm not the only one that have personal interests in maemo here.. Thanks God... Lol....05:08
DaniloCesarI'm think that everybody wants to be INdT's employee... LOL =)05:08
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DaniloCesarNeoStrider, Are you developing something under maemo?05:09
NeoStriderholla Luria05:10
DaniloCesarLuria, Hola! Welcome05:10
NeoStriderDaniloCesar:  a game05:10
_Monkeysomebody said a game was very funny!05:10
_Monkeyangstron is
Luriaanyone used pyro on the n800?05:10
DaniloCesarlet me see05:10
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, Owww! I knew that!05:11
NeoStriderI've just finished it05:12
DaniloCesarI saw yours messages on maemo garage asking for testers, right?05:12
NeoStriderit is now beta =-)05:12
Luriaguess not05:12
NeoStriderstill doesnt work well with n80005:12
DaniloCesarI will try it now!05:12
DaniloCesarOw.... really?!??! Its a shame.05:12
DaniloCesarWhat is the problem?05:13
_Monkeythe problem is probably that bash depends on debianutils and coreutils, which conflict with busybox, and pretty much everything depends on busybox.05:13
NeoStrider_Monkey: the problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place05:13
_Monkey...but problem is that bash depends on debianutils and coreutils, which conflict with busybox, and pretty much everything depends on busybox....05:13
NeoStrider_Monkey: forget the problem05:13
_MonkeyNeoStrider: I forgot problem05:13
NeoStrider_Monkey: the problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place05:13
_MonkeyOK, NeoStrider.05:13
NeoStriderand yes, Im selfish =-P05:14
Luria_Monkey, the problem is that monkey forgot that _Monkey is a monkey05:14
_Monkey...but problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place...05:14
Luriaor something05:14
rhysdoes anyone know how i get jffs2 support in the kernel?05:14
Luria_Monkey, jump.05:14
_MonkeyLuria: excuse me?05:14
DaniloCesar_Monkey, The problem is that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey....05:14
_Monkey...but problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place...05:14
Luria_Monkey, climb a tree05:14
_MonkeyLuria: i'm not following you...05:14
Luria_Monkey, thats cause im not up a tree05:15
_MonkeyLuria: sorry...05:15
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, And what do you use to build your app? Pygame, openGL or something like it?05:15
rhysjffs2 isnt under the filesystem options05:15
NeoStrider_monkey: problem/05:16
_MonkeyNeoStrider: sorry...05:16
NeoStrider_monkey: problem?05:16
_Monkeyproblem is probably that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place05:16
NeoStrider_monkey: forget problem05:16
_MonkeyNeoStrider: I forgot problem05:16
DaniloCesar_Monkey, The problem is that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey....05:16
_MonkeyOK, DaniloCesar.05:16
DaniloCesar_Monkey, The problem is that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey....05:16
_Monkeyi already had it that way, DaniloCesar.05:16
NeoStriderbetter this way05:16
NeoStriderDaniloCesar:  just plain SDL and SDL_gfx05:16
NeoStriderI do the 3D on my own05:16
NeoStriderGL is not suitable05:16
Luria_Monkey, do you run on maemo?05:17
_Monkeyi haven't a clue, luria05:17
Luriaclearly not self aware.05:17
DaniloCesarIts a hard job, hãn?05:17
sullyThat'd be neat. An IRC bot hosted on a 770.05:18
Luriawhy not?05:19
NeoStriderI once saw a webpage hosted on a MS handheld ;-)05:19
Luriai think garage is on a n800?05:19
sullyyou lie like a rug05:19
DaniloCesarCould N800 host garage? I think that it can! lol05:20
Luriai doubt anyone would notice ;-)05:20
Luriaso, no one has used pyro on maemo?05:20
DaniloCesar_Monkey, pyro ?05:21
_Monkeyi don't know, danilocesar05:21
Luriapython remote objects05:21
NeoStrideractually, I tried mario animated desktop on the 77005:21
NeoStriderand it works flawlessly05:21
Luriaits a net lib for python05:21
NeoStrideryou guys know it?05:21
DaniloCesar_Monkey, Pyro is short for PYthon Remote Objects. It is an advanced and powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python.05:21
_MonkeyOK, DaniloCesar.05:21
DaniloCesar_Monkey, pyro ?05:21
_Monkeypyro is, like, short for PYthon Remote Objects. It is an advanced and powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python05:21
Luria_Monkey, banana ?05:22
_Monkeywish i knew, luria05:22
ArtemisprimeWhat is mario animated desktop ?05:22
DaniloCesarNintendo's Mario? I think that in US it have a another name....05:22
NeoStridercheck it out05:23
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, forget what I said05:23
sullyThis has nothing to do with anything, but it's hilarious.
sully(A tribute to the idiocy of Yahoo Answers)05:24
ArtemisprimeHow do u unzip on maemo05:25
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ArtemisprimeI have zip05:25
DaniloCesarSo, a javascript version of Mario... for iphone....05:25
DaniloCesarunzip filename.zip05:25
ArtemisprimeOn the cli ?05:26
NeoStridernot really a game05:26
NeoStriderjust a javascript wallpaper05:26
DaniloCesarI do on cli...05:26
NeoStriderbut proves that js games can be done on 77005:26
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DaniloCesarArtemisprime, Do you use N800 or 770? On N800 you have a unzip package. So, when you click on zip files it will be automatically unziped.05:28
Luriaspeaking of the yahoo answers bit05:30
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, Is not easier build games with pygame for N770? Pygame is simpler than JS to build games, isn't it?05:30
Luriait reminds me of
ArtemisprimeI have 77005:30
DaniloCesarArtemisprime, OS2006?05:30
NeoStriderbut DaniloCesar, the 770 doesnt bundle the python05:30
ArtemisprimeI cant seem to unzip05:30
ArtemisprimeYes os200605:31
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, REALLY?!?!?05:31
_Monkeyos2006 is the second ABI (armel) for the Nokia 77005:31
NeoStriderDaniloCesar:  yeah05:31
DaniloCesarNeoStrider,  but you can put OS2007 to run under 770 right?05:31
NeoStrideryes...but then it wont be the end user's machine05:32
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, Yes... you're right05:32
ArtemisprimeDan; can u  help me unzipon this os ?05:32
NeoStriderim building costumer's entertainment05:32
ArtemisprimeIm on the 770 now05:33
sullyUsing Pidgin?05:33
_Monkeyi guess xchat is a gtk-based IRC client.
DaniloCesarArtemisprime, I don't know how OS2006 works.... Do you have a cli in your n770?05:33
NeoStrideri remember gaim on 770 being quite unstable05:34
ArtemisprimeDan i have xterm installed05:34
Luriaxchat rocks05:34
NeoStriderim using it now05:34
ArtemisprimePidgin works great05:34
NeoStrider(ubuntu desktop)05:34
Luriai started using it under windows05:34
ArtemisprimeOn 77005:34
Luria(free build)05:34
sullyAre you using a BT keyboard?05:34
DaniloCesarLuria, I use to use xchat under maemo and its very stable and useful05:34
ArtemisprimeJust the stylus05:35
sullywhew, I'd not IRC for fun on the 770.05:35
NeoStridertough guy05:35
DaniloCesarArtemisprime, Do you have unzip packet installed?05:35
Luriaoh, i use xchat on maemo 80% of the time im here05:35
sullyStylus or BT keyboard?05:35
NeoStrideri dont have a working wifi here =(05:35
LuriaNeoStrider, you connect with happy thoughts?05:36
DaniloCesarLuria, I don't use all time because the maemo's virtual keyboard is not so good....05:36
NeoStriderI simply use the 770 for debugging05:36
ArtemisprimeI have zip installed05:36
LuriaDaniloCesar, its cause i use a bt keyboard05:36
sullywhich one, Luria?05:36
ArtemisprimeNot unzip05:37
Luriathe small thinkoutside one05:37
sullyI like the Stowaway, but it's odd. I wish the back of it was of a uniform height05:37
DaniloCesarLuria, 770 or N800? What is your keyboard model?05:37
DaniloCesarArtemisprime, I think that you need to install this package right?05:37
DaniloCesarArtemisprime,  http://download.maemo.org05:37
DaniloCesarand search for zip or unzip05:38
* NeoStrider also likes to listen to some music on the 770...05:38
Luriahold on they changed the name05:38
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, Canola?05:38
ArtemisprimeI have zip installed05:38
NeoStridernot really05:38
NeoStriderjust plain media player05:38
NeoStriderwithout wifi, I cant install canola05:38
sullyI think you could do a apt-get -d install canola to get the .deb file05:40
DaniloCesarArtemisprime, And what about unzip package? Have you found it?05:40
ArtemisprimeNope not yet05:41
NeoStridersully, wrong arch05:41
ArtemisprimeThe link u gave me is for repos05:41
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DaniloCesarBetter! Just click on this link:05:43
DaniloCesarunzip is able for OS2006 too.05:43
DaniloCesarArtemisprime, OK?05:43
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ArtemisprimeThat is the repo ?05:44
ArtemisprimeFor unzip05:44
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DaniloCesarWhy you dont use the install file?05:44
Luriaum, not the mirror05:44
Luriaon n80005:45
Luriaits good, not perfect05:45
DaniloCesarLuria, can U connect your  BT keyboard and your cell phone at the same time?05:46
Luriaand gps05:46
DaniloCesar* Bt keyboard + cell phone  + N800 (or 770)05:46
ArtemisprimeFrom where ?05:47
Luriakybd, iblue 757 pro, mot v551 (hacked for edge)05:47
ArtemisprimeThe install05:47
DaniloCesarFrom Nokia's official repository05:47
LuriaDaniloCesar, all running at once05:48
DaniloCesarLuria, I thought that BT had problems with simultaneous connections05:49
Lurianot that i noticed, though gprs/edge sucks in nyc05:49
NeoStriderDaniloCesar:  are you from any org like indt or embedded academy?05:50
DaniloCesarLuria, So I never bought a BT keyB because of it. I need of my cellphone's BT connection (EDGE). But if you are saying that U can use more than one BT connection at the same time I will think about buy a KB.05:52
Luriai have done gps+map downloads05:53
Luriajust choose the right one for your needs05:53
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, my graduate task is about embedded processors. But I don't work with this stuffs....05:53
NeoStriderI used to work with 8051's...but it was a long time ago05:54
DaniloCesarLuria, Here in my country we don't have many options of KB that works with N800...05:54
NeoStridernow Im just doing gamedev =-)05:55
DaniloCesarAtmel 8051?05:55
Luriaoh god, im at a cafe where they put the public net with their office machines05:56
Lurianow, i know the staff, and they dont care - ive mentioned this -05:57
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, I made a Atmel simulator with archC before. Now I working in a Motorola DSP 56**** simulator and trying to build a gnu assembler for it.05:57
DaniloCesarDo your work with gamedev? For some company, by your self or just for fun?05:57
Luriabut i just noticed they have an hp net printer... without a password05:57
NeoStriderjust for fun05:58
DaniloCesarLuria, Its very normal here. Some guys still using WEP and thinking that they're safe....05:58
NeoStridermy games are GPL indeed05:58
Luriathat i can understand05:59
Luriabut they have ethernet jacks05:59
sullyodd, shouldn't any HID keyboard work with the 770? This B-Speech MiniPad doesn't get detected05:59
Luriaif it is hid, yeah06:00
DaniloCesarNeoStrider, Do U have a website where I can found your job?06:00
Luriamake sure its discoverable06:00
Luria(obvious, i know)06:00
NeoStriderI have a blog where I comment my works06:00
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sullyI think it not being discoverable is the problem, yet I can't get it going06:01
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Luriaoh cool stuff06:02
Lurianever seen that company06:03
Luriaoh i have seen that keyboard06:03
Luriai think its rebranded06:03
sullyJust won't get discoverable for the life of me06:04
Luriaarg i hate java and the jvms that come along with it06:05
NeoStriderwell folks06:06
NeoStridergot to go06:06
* NeoStrider is very tired06:07
Luriadid you try fn+bullseye+home key?06:07
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Luriait clears the pairing and sets discoverable06:08
sullyyeah, multiple times. damn thing.06:08
sullyno big deal, still got the other keyboard and I didn't pay for either!06:08
Luriashame, sucks for you and i wanted to hear whether it was a serviceable kybd06:08
DaniloCesarI think that the only think that miss on N800 is java applets.. I can access my bank in my N800 and its a little frustrating06:09
Luriaf java06:09
Luriaooooh i can run my slow code on slow vms *anywhere*06:09
DaniloCesarf java! I agree! But please, say this to my bank IT managers! lol06:10
Luriaits like someone took c++ and lobotomized it06:11
Luriagarbage disposal is wonderful... except that the jvm takes all my ram anyway06:12
riki tune java vm's for a living.06:12
riki like java.06:12
DaniloCesarLuria, But is not a big problem anymore. I can use my bank applet under SSH and X-Forward06:12
riki notice that cat /proc/cpuinfo mentions java as a cpu feature though.06:13
rikon my n800 at least.06:13
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Luriano offense intended here rik. still holding to my opinion :-)06:13
rikno offense taken06:14
Luriaespecially after it took my pM/1ghz/512MB on k-meleon 5 minutes to load the aforementioned open hp config page06:14
rikpersonally, i dislike c++ a lot, always ave. seems like there's too many ways to do the same thing, and they're all slight variotions on each other, for maximum complexity.06:14
rikjava seems like c++ done much better. i won't say "right" though.06:14
DaniloCesarFolks! I'm going to my bed.  Good night for everyone (If is night in your country)06:15
* DaniloCesar Going sleep06:15
rikit's 4:18am here06:15
rikbut i'm jet lagged :)06:15
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Luriathat i do understand06:15
Luriastill, i like rope to hang myself with06:15
* rik nods06:15
rikif you can't screw yourself in interesting ways, then the language isn't as useful as it can be :)06:16
Luriaplus, i often treat it as c with classes06:16
Luriawhich is a lot of rope, but can be done right06:16
Luriai like c :-)06:16
Luriai was sad to see people move away from teaching it for basic comp sci06:17
Luriaor c++06:18
riki was taught C, Java and Haskell, to appreciate all the big styles.06:18
riki love C. but i haven't writen any serious C in a long time.06:18
Luriaim kinda teaching a friend of mine python as a way to learn python and get back into programming (using the how to think like a compscientist book)06:20
* rik nosd.06:20
riki learned python. then i learned haskell.. or at least, what Haskell should have taught me - i still can't write haskell code, bt i can read it... and hten my python improved.06:20
Luriaon the one hand, its nice that he can make somewhat functioning code...06:20
Luriaon the other hand, it doesnt promote thinking in some fundamental ways that are integral to programming06:21
riksuch as?06:23
rikmemory allocation, etc?06:23
Luriawhen we hit chap 5, i figured that now that he had learned to write a function (with returns), import libraries, and some basic io, he could get the hello world example06:23
Luriabut the concept of streams didnt work06:23
Luriamaybe if it were c and printf...06:24
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Luriastill, the idea of encapsulating the main "script" in a function was problematic06:24
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Luriaand his eyes kinda glazed, even though he should have had the vocabulary by this point, as i had him write some basic functions06:25
Lurianor is he particularly dumb06:25
Luriai dunno, there are some bad problems with that book06:26
Luriai dont like the fact that they use stupid variable names...06:26
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Luriawhen teaching string operations, you dont give def repeat_text(bruce): as an example06:27
Luriawtf is bruce? it looks like something you'd pass to the function!06:27
* rik nods06:28
Luriaso he (rightly) got confused between literals and variables06:28
riki can understand06:28
Luriai started to say, "you know what, stick a "str_" in front of string variables, etc. etc."06:29
Luriait helped a lot06:29
rikHungarian notation. that's the one.06:30
Luriaok fine06:30
Luriabut this aint it06:30
Luriai swear, i wasnt making this up06:31
rikthat's unhelpful.06:31
Luriaim regretting using this book, somewhat06:31
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rikshame. the concept was good.06:32
Luriain many respects it is good, but really bad about laying the foundations for design06:32
ekim|ircI just ordered a nokia 770 on amazon06:32
ekim|ircwith a 1 gig rs-mmc card06:32
ekim|ircwhen I get it...what should I do with it first ?06:32
ekim|ircWhat is the "Killer App"06:32
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Luriathere are a lot of great apps... maemo mapper is portable google earth... gizmo for sip voip06:33
Luriagaim/pidgin for multi network im06:33
ekim|ircwhat about skype06:34
ekim|ircany luck with that ?06:34
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Luriarik, similarly, iit covers syntax, runtime, and sematic errors - but not issues with style.06:35
* rik nods06:35
ekim|ircwhat apps do you use Luria ?06:35
Luriaor thinking algorithmically06:35
Luriaekim|irc, i have an n80006:36
Luriaso my list may be different06:36
Luriano skype afaik for the 77006:36
Luriaxournal is really nice06:36
ekim|ircwhats the difference betweenthe 770 and the 80006:36
Luriakeep an eye out for that06:36
ekim|ircI bought the 770 bevause I could afford it :006:37
* rik coughs. has nmap, kismet, metasploit on his. is currently trying to figure out what PIM apps he needs.06:37
ekim|ircare there a lot of apps that are n800 only ?06:37
Luriai understand. its a fine machine too. im thinking of picking up a 770 too.06:37
ekim|ircrik, ...nice06:37
Luriai skipped pims cause i love the rtcomm stack06:37
ekim|ircWow...because there is TOTALLY a lefitate use for metasploit06:37
rikwhat i want is a google calendar interface, actually.06:38
Luriametasploit is hard on the IT06:38
ekim|ircnow all we need is ethereal06:38
ekim|ircthats what kismet does06:38
ekim|ircright ?06:38
riktcpdump. dsniff, etc.06:38
Luriawell, sorta06:38
ekim|irckismet is a sniffer no ?06:38
Luriakismet is wireless, and will isolate certain packets06:38
ekim|ircethereal will run on linux right ?06:39
Luriamostly an ap finder06:39
rikyes. the point is that i'm a security consultant. i walk on site and a client says "we're secure. we'll pay yuou X thousand dollars for each vulnerability you acn find!" and i pull out the N800 and tell them what it's found so far.06:39
ekim|ircI was just messin' with you :)06:39
Luriai would love to copy your setup :-) i just reflashed and havent redone the metasploit install06:40
Luriabut it was so damn slow06:40
ekim|ircwhat is thedifference between the 800 and the 77006:40
ekim|ircI got the 770 for only 150 bucks on amazon06:40
Luriaram, internal storage, cpu speed, sd(hc) vs stupidflash06:41
ekim|ircaww damn06:41
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ekim|ircthe n800 uses sd cards06:41
ekim|ircbut is it THAT much better06:41
ekim|irchaving a litter buyers remorse06:42
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Luriaoh, camera too06:42
ekim|ircthe 770 doesn't have a camera ?06:42
Luriadepends what you want it for06:42
ekim|ircwell...that is cool06:43
Luriano, iirc and wikipedia is correct06:43
ekim|ircbut I have to be honest ... the camera would be really fun to play with for liek the first hour ... then I would never use it06:43
Lurialook, i like it for certain things - like i said, i have a n800 and am thinking about getting one06:43
ekim|ircgetting one what ?06:43
ekim|ircwhy ?06:43
ekim|ircyou have an 80006:43
_Monkeyrumour has it also is there a nice tutorial for setting up a python dev environment for the n80006:44
ekim|ircOHH DUUUUDE06:44
ekim|ircfor ereal ?06:44
ekim|irchas anyone got IDLE running on it yet ?06:44
Luriaignore the damn bot06:44
Luriathere is ipython06:44
ekim|ircI am really excited about canola06:45
ekim|ircI never use those anywauy06:45
ekim|ircis ther egvim on it ?06:45
ekim|ircit is not my day for typing...06:45
Luriathere is real vim06:45
ekim|ircgvim is real vim06:45
ekim|ircgvim is gtk a gtk gui for vim06:45
ekim|ircbecause using vim in the windows command prompt sucks :)06:46
ekim|irccommand line vim is fine on linux06:46
Luriaegvim - easy gvim06:46
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ekim|ircwith gnome-terminal , konsole , aterm ... or even xterm .... but not in the windows command prompt06:46
ekim|ircI forgot rxvt06:46
ekim|ircegvim ?06:46
ekim|ircNever heard of it06:46
ekim|ircI use the official gvim06:46
Luriaoh btw - the n800 can just about replace a notebook (with a keyboard) for data consumption and some typing and blogging06:46
ekim|irccan you plug a usb keyboard into the 770 ( with some modification ) ?06:47
Luriathe 770 is fine for the purposes of an internet tablet06:47
ekim|ircis ther ea link ?06:47
ekim|ircImn sure there is a project on this somewhere ?06:47
Luriayou have to make a cable06:47
Luriasearch itt06:47
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Luriadamn... bitchx06:48
Luriahavent seen that in a while06:48
ekim|ircyeah...Im an irssi guy06:48
ekim|ircim a vim guy...and I do the same thing when people use emacs06:48
ekim|ircall the emacs people are total masachists06:48
ekim|ircdid I spell that right...06:48
ekim|irctoday is not my day for spelling either06:49
Luriai know the guy who rewrote the file save and did the ocr for emacs06:49
Luriahe's like look at all the cool shit you can do with emacs....06:49
Luria(i was demoing vim on the n800)06:49
Luriai stare at him and say06:49
Luriai want to edit a text file06:49
ekim|ircDude...there is no can do some cool shit with emacs06:49
ekim|ircbut eventually...your gonna ctualyl want to EDIT TEXT FILES06:50
Luriayeah, like load vim to edit06:50
ekim|ircthe emacs zealots are all like ... dude ... look06:50
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ekim|ircmy editor reads my mail , reads my news , walks my dog , and does my fscking dishes06:50
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ekim|irco yeah...and if you even edits text06:50
Luriafrankly, emacs is for people who forgot to run the other stuff before hand... are at a shell... and dont know how to use screen06:51
ekim|ircI hate it when I do that06:51
ekim|ircforget to start screen06:51
ekim|ircI get into an app and press CTRL-A + C and nothing happens06:51
Luriaoddly enough, he had never heard the escape-meta-alt-control-shift joke06:52
rikemacs has a great os, but i don't like the editor06:52
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ekim|ircso...what happens if you press escape-meta-alt-control-shift ?06:53
ekim|ircand what if your meta key is alt06:53
* ekim|irc is confused06:53
Luriai said "dont you need to hold escape-meta-alt-control-shift-a here?" and he's like "no, you never need to hit that many keys simultatiously..." before he got the joke06:53
* ekim|irc feels like a nub06:54
ekim|ircdo you have a keyboard on your n800 ?06:54
Luriathe look on his face was priceless, cause it sounded like a legit emacs question06:54
Luriayes, i bought one06:54
ekim|ircit was06:54
ekim|ircan e-m-a-c-s question06:54
ekim|ircseriouly ... vim FTW06:55
ekim|ircis it bluetooth ?06:55
ekim|ircbecause for me...bluetooth seems overkill if the device is right next to it06:55
ekim|irchow much was it ?06:55
Luriaigo ultra slim06:55
Luriabut i got b&m06:55
ekim|ircyeah...still pretty expensive06:55
Luriayou can find it cheaper online06:55
ekim|ircb&m ?06:55
Luriabut actually it was cheap compared to many online places06:56
ekim|ircthe baked bean people ?06:56
Luriabrick and mortar06:56
Luriaphysical stores06:56
ekim|ircI know what brick and mortar is06:56
ekim|ircI like beans though :)06:56
Luriaok. why not.06:56
ekim|ircwhy no love for the beans :(06:56
ekim|ircI DEMAND love for the beans!06:56
ekim| there a way to connect a regular usb keyboard to the 77006:57
Lurianot everyone here (especially here) is a native english speaker, so i make no assumptions06:57
Luriamore that a few people from finland, you know06:57
ekim|ircof course06:57
ekim|ircnokia ia based in finland06:57
ekim|ircnot that it ha anything to do with it06:58
ekim|ircor maybe it does06:58
Luriayeah it does06:58
Luriathat was my point :-)06:58
ekim|ircWell...I am not finish06:58
ekim|ircim from florida....which is probably as far as you can get06:58
ekim|ircand you apparently are from new york06:58
Luriado a /who on the channel...06:59
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ekim|ircI know06:59
ekim|ircsame isp06:59
Luriaah right. cafe connection.06:59
ekim|ircYour at a cafe now ?06:59
Luriatook my n800 to florida last month...07:00
ekim|ircwhere in florida /07:00
Luriaused my notebook twice that week07:00
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Luriabal harbour07:00
ekim|ircI live in tampa07:01
ekim|ircnot sure how close that is07:01
Luriagot my cwp safety cert :)07:01
ekim|ircwhats that ?07:01
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Luriabal harbour is miami beach07:01
Luriaare you from florida?07:02
Luriaconcealed weapons permit... you need to take and pass a safety class before they issue you a permit07:02
ekim|ircfrom a place that nombody has heard of07:02
ekim|ircand nobody can spell07:02
ekim|irctry to pronounce this :)07:02
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ekim|irctoo many acronyms...07:03
ekim|ircmy brain hurts07:03
ekim|ircyou did it07:03
ekim|ircnot many people can say it ... let alone spell it07:03
ekim|irchave you written anythingfor the 770/80007:04
ekim|irchildon seems to be pretty easy to program for07:04
Lurianot yet07:04
ekim|ircare you a developer at all ?07:04
Luriai had almost set up a dev environment, but my router went down, and i cant vpn home...07:05
Lurianot critical, but i cant play07:05
Luriaand i havent been home in a while07:05
ekim|ircso you don't live in nyc ?07:05
Luriathere are a couple of things i want to do07:06
Luriai do07:06
ekim|ircOhh cool07:06
ekim|ircI haven't written anything useful07:06
ekim|ircworking on  a opastebin app with django07:06
ekim|irc a python framework07:06
ekim|ircnothing huge07:06
Luriathere are couple maemo frontends that need doing07:06
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ekim|ircwhat is the name of the maemo interface07:07
ekim|irchildon ?07:07
_Monkeyhildon is, like, a tablet desktop framework, and a standard part of the maemo platform07:07
ekim|ircmaemo ?07:07
_Monkeymaemo is, like, at or Open Source Software07:07
ekim|ircyour an idiot ?07:08
ekim|ircohh...don't know the answer to that one huh ?07:08
Luria_Monkey, idiot ?07:08
_Monkeyi haven't a clue, luria07:08
ekim|irc_Monkey, linux ?07:08
_Monkeylinux is a free kernel thats inside most open source operating systems today and its a core technology for Maemo07:08
ekim|irc_Monkey, python ?07:08
_Monkeypython is at!07:08
ekim|irca python port07:08
Luriaoh yeah07:08
ekim|irc_Monkey, ruby ?07:08
_Monkeyekim|irc: bugger all, i dunno07:08
ekim|ircno rails then07:08
Luriayes there is RoR07:08
Luriaremember we were talking about metasploit07:09
ekim|ircYeah ?07:09
ekim|ircis that written in ruby ?07:09
Luriayes, the web interface works07:09
Luriathat we didnt metion07:09
ekim|ircI haven't playeed with it in like a year07:09
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ekim|irchow does task switching work on the 77007:10
ekim|irccan I run more then omne app at a time07:10
ekim|ircLike be coding my app in vim ... then preview it in opera07:10
Luriaits not hard,07:10
Luriayoull see :-)07:10
Luriai want to try pyro on n800 python later07:11
Luriaor rather ipython07:11
Luriathat would be like having a hacking shell07:11
ekim|ircisng that the firefox thing07:11
ekim|irclike ... acrive desktop done right07:11
Luria_Monkey, pyro ?07:12
_Monkeyi think pyro is short for PYthon Remote Objects. It is an advanced and powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python.07:12
ekim|ircor something like that07:12
ekim|ircI must be thiking of something else07:12
Luriaworse, there a like five python libs that are called pyro07:12
ekim|ircI was actually thiking of this07:12
Luriaoh god07:14
ekim|ircwhere !07:14
Lurianot on a mozilla desktop07:14
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ekim|ircwhat happened07:15
ekim|ircnetsplit ?07:15
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Luriaa net split07:15
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ekim|ircdefinately netsplit07:15
Luriai didnt think those happened anymore07:15
ekim|ircO yeah07:15
ekim|ircI had one happen a few weeks ago07:16
Luriait like efnet c. 199407:16
ekim|ircLooks like kubrick burped :)07:16
Luriaquick, split ops!07:16
ekim|ircdo what ?07:16
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Luriaold channel hacking technique?07:16
ekim|ircHmm ?07:17
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Luriaok, it worked like this07:17
Luriayou see a split07:17
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Luriaget on the smaller side, or a single server that was split07:17
Luriajoin a "new" channel with the same name of the channel where you want ops07:18
ekim|ircOhh nice07:18
Luriakick on the resync before you lose ops07:18
ekim|ircbecause the channel doesn't exist on that server07:18
ekim|ircIm coming kind alate on the irc scene :)07:18
Luriai dropped out c. 1998-907:19
Luriathis is the only ircing ive done since07:19
Luriadalnet is still somewhat "new" to me :-)07:20
ekim|ircI just joined a few days ago :007:20
ekim|irctheir nickserv bugs me07:20
ekim|ircthet do an email loop07:20
ekim|ircI dont know any other irc network that does that07:21
Luriathats what was "new"07:21
Luriaall the services07:21
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Blacksitoxrp-pppoe on n800 ?07:24
Blacksitoxhow compiling rp-pppoe for n800 ?07:24
ekim|ircI don't have a 770 , nor do I know what rp-pppoe is07:25
ekim|ircI should have mine by next week though :)07:25
ekim|ircI assume pppoe as in DSL internet right ?07:26
ekim|ircPoint to Point Protocol Over Ethernet ?07:26
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ekim|ircWhy would you need that on the 77007:28
ekim|ircwhich uses wifi07:28
ekim|ircor 800 for that matter07:28
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Luriai wish there were a tiny ap the size of a rj-45 connector07:31
Luriaiow, plugin to a ethernet network, you can use an IT07:31
Luriamaybe battery powered and/or PoE07:32
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ekim|ircO hey Luria ...your back07:37
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ekim|ircwhat is the gui for the 770 called ?07:37
_Monkeywell, hildon is a tablet desktop framework, and a standard part of the maemo platform07:37
ekim|ircis it hildon07:37
ekim|ircI know hildon is the library for writing maemo compatible apps07:38
ekim|ircor at least gui framework07:38
ekim|ircbut what is the task switching/app launching part07:38
ekim|ircthe actual user interface07:38
ekim|irchas anyone been able to replace that07:39
ekim|ircmaybe run fluxboxy on it or something07:39
ekim|ircjust because you can I guess :)07:39
Luriait has the stack "diagram"07:41
ekim|ircHuh ?07:42
Luriathe maemo "stack"07:42
ekim|ircI get it07:42
Lurialook at the wikipedia page07:42
ekim|ircbut you didnt answer my other question07:43
Luriai dunno07:43
ekim|irchas anyone got fluxbox to work on it ?07:43
ekim|ircI guess there is not reall a point07:43
ekim|ircyou cant right-click ... so it would be problamatic07:43
Luriawell, not really07:44
Luriayou could just load it and stil07:44
Luriasit stil07:44
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ekim|ircwow...thats exciting07:46
ekim|ircOhh nice07:46
ekim|ircHow is he typing ?07:47
Luriakeyboard, i would guess07:47
ekim|ircare there any apps that run ONLY on the n800 besides camera specific apps ?07:47
Luriamicrob, rtcomm07:48
Luria(afaik on the last two)07:48
ekim|ircaww damn07:49
ekim|ircthey have skype for the n80007:49
ekim|ircaww come on07:49
Luriabut i dunno what will run on os2007 and not os2007he07:49
ekim|ircwhy doesn't it work on the 770 ?07:49
Luriaall i know is that there is no official release07:49
syosoftbecause only the poor own 770's - and the poor cant skype :(07:49
ekim|ircI am poor07:50
ekim|ircand I demand my skype07:50
ekim|ircIm sure somebody has done it07:50
syosoft...that was in jest ;) i own a 770...07:50
Luriai do not know if you put 2007he on your 770 and manually dpkg skype if it works07:50
syosoftheh, just picked it up a couple weeks back. havent put it to use too much thou.07:50
syosoftmore interested in my HTPC ATM07:50
syosoftany "must have" apps you guys can suggest?07:50
Luriayeah, dont use skype much07:50
Luriaoh dear07:50
Lurianot again07:50
Luriathats the third time in 24 hours07:51
Luriai need to write a page07:51
syosoftheh, if its that common a question....hows about putting a little page together?07:51
syosoftI bought it for the toy aspect of it - but would be nice to get some use out of it as well.07:51
ekim|ircHow much ewas yours syosoft  ?07:51
ekim|ircI bought it for 150 on amazon07:52
syosoftpicked it up at buy.com07:52
syosoft143 or something, somewhere around that.07:52
Luriabut those are n800 debs07:52
syosoftis there a thumb keyboard for 770 ?07:52
Luriavirtual, yes07:52
syosoftyou guys use a screen protector?07:53
Luriayes, yes07:53
syosofti already scratched it :( damn dirty stylus07:53
Luriawith the original plastic?07:53
Luriaor the screen itself?07:53 the original plastic on it so well you cant tell it's on it?07:53
Luriacause the stylus will cut the original plastic screen07:53
syosoftbecause mine didnt seem to have anything on it.07:53
Luria(on the n800 after two weeks)07:54
Lurialook carefully is all i can say07:54
syosoftyea, i'm guessing it's naked.07:54
Luriaonly so much i can tell you; ive had an n800 since the end of june07:54
ekim|ircwhere can I buy a screen protector ?07:55
Luriadont know a ton about the 77007:55
Luriaone sec07:55
ekim|ircis it a standard sized screen ?07:55
syosofti've seen a couple for 'em07:55
syosoftthe one i plan on getting has a retail of $12.95 or something, cant remember the name of it now :)07:55
Luriai bought these07:56
Luriathats probably what you mean07:56
ekim|ircI cant wait until I get my package :)07:56
ekim|ircprobalby next friday :907:56
Luriafairly cheap07:56
syosofti think i was leaning torwards the ClearTouch07:56
syosoftnot sure why, just was07:57
Luriajust a happy camper with those. cant tell you if it's better.07:57
Luriathere are a bunch of threads at itt about this07:58
syosoftwhat about flys landing on my monitor and looking creepy? any threads about that?07:58
syosoftthey probably know you wont smack 'em there....the bastards...07:58
Luriayou'd have to search07:58
Luria_Monkey, flys07:58
_MonkeyLuria: i'm not following you...07:58
Luria_Monkey, flys?07:58
_Monkeyluria: bugger all, i dunno07:58
syosoftmonkey? ;) quick on that tab are we?07:59
Luria_Monkey, debian ?07:59
_Monkeydebian is really easy to use, and I think the install that exists on the nokia devices are a lot more custom tailored for them than you think07:59
Luria_Monkey, x11 ?08:00
_Monkeyx11 is, like, not configured for the the opengl chip08:00
Luria_Monkey, irc ?08:00
_Monkeysomebody said irc was only a couple of days old for me08:00
Luriait gets annoying quick, but never gets old08:00
ekim|ircbye guys08:01
* ekim|irc is going to sleep08:01
syosoftwhat about car mounting?08:01
syosoftany decent mounts for air vents in the dash?08:02
Luriayou could look into the nav pack08:02
syosoftjust generic windshield ones :(08:02
syosofta bit tacky for my taste08:02
Luriadunno then08:02
Luriai understand08:02
rm_youanyone know anything about Puchi (the theme editor)? like maybe if it works with n800 themes?08:03
Luriaok, so i totally want one of these:08:03
Luriascrew maemo :-)08:04
syosoftwhat good is a 36" drop test...08:04
syosoftunless their target demo is little peoplel08:04
Luriaask my friend who dropped his panasonic cf-m34 down a flight of stairs08:04
syosoftthat sounds a bit further than 36"08:05
Luriathe thing was still running at the bottom08:05
Luriahe was glad i recommended it :-)08:05
syosoftwhats the retail on that thing?08:05
Luriato start08:05
syosoftfigured it be far more than what you actually get08:06
syosofti like tech pricing. rather funny08:06
Luriacf-m34 is a tough toughbok
Luriai love mine08:06
rm_youis it possible to recover from installing a broken theme on an n800?08:07
syosoftreturn it to the store as defective? ;)08:07
rm_youlike, besides flashing08:08
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Luriaplease note that the screen held the bullet - it screwed up the keyboard... but didnt enter the cpu section of the notebook08:08
rm_youif i SSH in, is it possible to change the theme via some CLI tool?08:08
Luriaoh here we go08:10
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syosoft:) soo not consumer products08:10
syosoftcool nevertheless.08:10
bmidgleyLuria hope he got a working laptop out of all the publicity08:10
bmidgleyhe should wear a jacket made out of them08:11
Luriathe p3-400mhz/192mb models go for $200 on ebay08:11
Luriap3-700/256 for about 30008:12
bmidgleyi have a fujitsu p1510 which is about that size but lighter08:13
bmidgleyi'm not often being shot at so it works out08:13
syosoft i like that :)08:13
Luriaright, but ive stuck the screen under a running faucet with no ill effect :-)08:14
Luriagot the backlit sealed membrane keyboad for it08:14
syosoftany benefits of windows media center that no nother soft for xp cant mimic ?08:15
Luriaadd the fact that it has a proper serial port and its a hack of all trades08:15
bmidgleyi do wish i had an outdoor readable screen. my n800 needs one too08:15
Luriathe second cf-m34 is the outdoors model - transflective and no microphone08:15
Luriait is handy in a car08:16
bmidgleybetter battery life too when you can turn the backlight off and still see08:16
Luriajust wish there were nice nav software for desktop linux08:16
Luriaanyone know if is there anything?08:17
Lurianot mapping software, navigation software08:17
bmidgleyemulated env running maemo mapper08:18
bmidgleybut seriously there is a gtk port of maemo mapper08:18
Luriamaemo mapper is a fork of gpsdrivfe08:18
Luriathen got rewritten for maemo08:18
bmidgleygpsdrive has the worst UI i've ever seen08:18
bmidgleyhopefully he didn't use one line of code from it08:19
Luriathats why it got rewritten08:19
bmidgleyi love the topo maps (only works in US though)08:20
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rm_youhere goes nothing...08:30
Luriachrist, what is wrong with this world when i am answering questions on #linux08:30
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Luriawow i like that fujitsu08:36
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amroh dear i think i broke my tablet and mmcs :-(12:01
amrtook my tablet on holiday and it got a bit fruity when accepting cards, suddenly thought the card was read only then it thought it was corrupt12:01
amrnow i can write to it12:02
amrif i try and unmount anything in the console and then remount it12:02
amreither by reinserting it or by doing /mount - i get the message that it is corrupt12:02
amrnow my device isnt showing up when its plugged into my pc12:02
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k8hi \o\12:15
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rikis canola good enough to play UPnP video? if so, does anyone know much about it? i'm trying to configure video viewing on my n800, from my fileserver here. it already has an install of ezlink ng on it.12:49
k8which player used for the mp3?12:52
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Hurghdoes anybody else have problems with the device mode when os boots from mmc?13:09
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amrthe correct way to unmount my mmc is to do umount -l /media/mmc1 in xterm isnt it13:37
amras root13:37
Hurghwhy -l ?13:40
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Hurgh-l is not necessary13:41
amri always get the message that its busy or in use13:42
Hurghi don't if i close all apps which use it13:43
pupniki've seen that too13:44
Hurghnevertheless you're might use it with or without13:44
pupnikand there's no fuser command13:44
Hurgh-'re ^^13:44
Hurghwhy do you think there's no fuser?13:46
amroh it worked this time13:46
pupnikno idea - i use it to check process owners of opened devices13:46
pupniklike cdrom when it won't eject13:47
Hurghi have it in /usr/bin13:47
pupnikNokia770-49:~ it2006se here13:47
Hurghoh ok13:48
Hurghn800 since yesterday ^^13:48
Hurghi didn't have a 770 before13:49
* pupnik notes this as another good reason to try out the new it2007he when it comes out13:49
pupnikHurgh: how do you like the 800 so far?13:49
Hurghhm there are many interesting things i could use it for but it's not easy to set up13:50
Hurghavahi-daemon is broken so i can't install canola at the moment13:51
Hurghand the device mode doesn't work properly if you boot from mmc13:51
Hurghfor me at least13:52
Hurghan hour ago i asked if anybody else had a problem13:53
Hurghsome days ago somebody asked the question too13:54
Hurghbut no answers :/13:54
pupnik'device mode'?13:56
pupnikusb 2.0 high speed device mode?13:57
Hurghyes i think so13:58
pupnikoh connecting it to the PC via USB at all13:58
Hurghusing the mmc as mass storage13:58
pupnikworks for me (on 770)13:58
pupniklemme check13:59
Hurghwith os on the mmc?13:59
pupnikworks fine14:00
pupnikis your vfat partition on /dev/mmcblk0p1 ?14:00
Hurgh7gb :)14:00
Hurghand 500mb ext2 on mmcblk0p214:01
pupniksorry, i don't know what to do14:02
Hurghi think he would like to give the pc access to both partitions14:02
pupnikdoes dmesg output give any useful info?14:02
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Hurghbut that doesn't work for the second because he booted from that one14:02
Hurghand so he fails for mmc214:03
Hurghmmc1 works14:03
Hurghno useful messages14:03
Hurghi'll file a bug report14:04
Hurghbut now i have to eat :)14:04
pupniki don't know if that's a bug14:04
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Hurghwhy not?14:05
pupnikafaik the usb automount is designed only for the first partition14:05
Hurghif i boot from flash in device mode i can mount both partitions14:05
pupnikyou can't mount the root partition in use14:06
Hurghof course14:06
Hurghand i think that's the problem14:06
pupnikit's not designed to allow that14:07
pupnikunless i have misunderstood, but i don't think i have14:08
Hurghi only want to access the vfat partition :'(14:08
pupnikIs this correct?: you boot from 2nd partition on mmc1, and want to access first vfat partition on mmc2?14:09
Hurghno both mmc214:10
Hurghmmc1 is accessible14:10
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rikpupnik: i have kismet working :)14:32
rikand it's stable.14:33
_Monkeyi think kismet is mistral user or but don't complain if it doesn't work14:34
pupnikwhat did you have to do?14:34
rikthat's what you were helping me with yesterday.14:34
pupniki was checking _monkey's information14:34
rikupgrade to latest OS. switch off WLAN scanning.14:34
rikand extend the idle times.14:34
rikit's *okay*, but it still leaves the wireless card unhappy when it quits14:35
rikbut i left it sitting and running for > 10 minutes, and it was still grabbing packets.14:35
pupnikinteresting - is there a web page / forum or wiki with info on how to do this?14:35
pupnikwe shouls get that howto online somewhere14:35
rikall the info was on internettablettalk, it's jsut in 18 gajillion separate threads :)14:35
rikdragorn will also want to know this . he promised to have a script for it if i gave him the user-space parts. we're still SOL on the driver for the moment though.14:36 wiki is down:
pupnikwell if you can help pull the info together i guess internettablettalk is the only place14:38
pupnikif there's a good thread for it, we can add it to monkey14:38
pupnikmonkey can help search engines also to find the good info14:38
riki'll giv ethe wiki a few hours, then check it again, and add it there, teach monkey about that instead.14:38
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pupnikaloha sbaturzio  :)14:47
sbaturziopupnik: ciao14:47
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rm_youif i install bash on my n800, it won't replace ash, right?14:58
rm_youit will just let me run it if i want?14:58
amris there anything different about mmc-mobile cards?14:58
amrmy generic mmc reader cant seem to read it14:58
pupnikbash might symlink to /bin/sh or something14:59
amractualy i think its my mac14:59
pupnikls -l /bin/ash14:59
pupniklrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            7 Jul 29 12:13 /bin/ash -> busybox14:59
amrit worked fine in windows14:59
rm_youon the zaurus, installing bash replaced busybox, which basically meant it was fl sh time :/14:59
rm_you*flash time15:00
pupniki'm feeling lucky15:00
pupnikbash: Depends: base-files (>= 2.1.12) but it is not going to be installed15:00
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pupnikhmm not sure i want to install bash now15:01
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rm_youThe following packages will be REMOVED:15:03
rm_you apt-https bluez-utils busybox chavo codelockui dnsmasq docpurge15:03
rm_youand about 30 other lines including... about every package on my system15:04
rm_youi'd say thats a no15:04
rm_youbut  want bash :( sad15:04
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pupniki could compile it and see if the binary runs standalone15:07
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rm_youthat would be really awesome, actually...15:10
rm_youthough i think my friend here has a scratchbox setup15:11
rm_youso i could prolly figure it out too15:11
rm_youthough i'm new to n800 dev stuff15:11
rm_youwas working on Zaurus stuff until like last week :/15:11
rm_youjust got my n800 like 4 days ago15:11
rm_youbeen experimenting with a2dp+video mostly15:11
Hurghrm_you do you boot your os from mmc?15:14
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amrim going to install linux on a vm on my macbook and play with creating a full screen clock application15:15
rm_youHurgh: no15:17
rm_youHurgh: didnt even know you could do that on the n800 :P15:17
rm_youI did on my zaurus though... :P15:17
Hurghi did it15:17
rm_youon an n800? or a zaurus? :P15:18
Hurghgot it yesterday ^^15:18
rm_youlol, crazy15:18
Hurghbut now i cannot access the mmc as mass-storage via usb15:19
Hurghi'm looking for others who have the same problem15:19
rm_youwell it makes sense15:20
rm_youwhen it switches to usb mass storage mode, it unmounts the cards on the n800... it cant unmount the root filesystem while its in use... :/15:20
Hurghit should only mount the first partition and that's a normal fat3215:21
Hurghthe second one is an ext2 as root15:21
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rm_youah you made your SD have multiple partitions?15:22
rm_youdunno the15:22
Hurghi followed the wiki15:22
Blacksitolist the repositories for maemo mappers?15:22
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pupnik_Optimised alpha blending on arm: (psx)
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pupnik_man psx4all loads about 20 times faster than pcsx16:24
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pupnik_Virtio's VPOM-3430 Virtual Platform starts at $2,488 USD for a single user license and is available immediately.16:29
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pupnik_3420 and 3210 also look intriguing16:38
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_Monkeybonjour, fork_16:39
pupnik_looks like core might be 2-3x faster than 1136js16:39
_Monkeybonjour, pupnik_16:39
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* pupnik_ snuffles comp.sys.arm16:58
amrim getting that message saying that /media/mmc1 is busy when trying to umount16:59
amrshould i just add -l and then take it out?17:00
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amranyone any ideas why an mmc mobile card wont work in any os through an mmc card reader17:07
amrwhereas an rsmmc does17:07
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pupnikdon't have a reader here sorry17:18
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Hurghamr have you tested it with other readers which definitely understand mmc 4.0?17:34
erstaziI need a drink, jack daniels preferably17:37
Hurghanybody here with a n800 with os booting from mmc/sd?17:40
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Veggenduh. silly me. it's a bluetooth card reader I need17:48
Veggen(I've been looking for a bluetoothlike to usb storage thing without luck)17:50
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Veggenbut  hmm - does such a thing exist?18:04
pupnikinteresting idea18:05
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_Monkeylibasound2 is, like, binaries compiled under gregale at libasound2-dev_1.0.8-3_armel.deb  libasound2-plugins_1.0.8-3_armel.deb libasound2_1.0.8-3_armel.deb18:07
Veggenthere are some things, but it's not clear whether it's the thing i want or only an usb card reader with built in bluetooth dongle.18:09
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pupnikcyclone 68k core with notes  (hatari, uae, POSE, genesis... )18:55
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Tu13eshow do I transfer a route I have on Google Maps to Maemo Mapper?19:12
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pupnikgood question Tu13es19:44
Tu13esi can't seem to get a route working on Maemo mapper either19:45
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Tu13escan you move the route in Google Earth?19:48
Tu13esin GMaps you can pick up the line and drag it19:48
sp3000you probably can't drag it all the way to maemo mapper though19:50
* sp3000 is being silly, hence the :P19:51
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pellohello, i'm looking for a wiki under n80019:55
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kreignew n800 user19:56
kreigi crash it quite a bit mroe than I would expect19:57
kreigso I wanna figur eout why, but found /var/log emtpy 8)19:57
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kreigI also need to do some debugging of my wireless link19:58
trevarthankreig: what crashed?19:58
trevarthanthe n800?19:58
_Monkeythe n800 is probably much better than a desk phone :-)19:58
kreigbecause it just can't hold it for more than a few minutes and then it will just lock up and reset19:58
kreigso I was looking for iwconfig, and no luck19:58
kreigPS, I have root by sshing to root@localhost19:58
trevarthankrieg: if your wireless causes the n800 to reset, try replacing your router?19:59
trevarthanthat's definitely not normal19:59
kreigtrevarthan: well, I have considered that, but I would poop on this thing if a remote router reset it19:59
trevarthanare you running the latest firmware?20:00
trevarthan(on the n800)20:00
kreigyes, 4.2007...20:00
kreigbut, I also understand that making it not blow up may take some hackering20:00
kreigmy neighbor has one and doesn't seem to have this issue20:00
trevarthankreig: no, it really shouldn't. mine is rock solid.20:00
kreighe already has a devel environment setup20:00
trevarthankreig: do you have another wireless network you can test with? just to rule out it being a b0rked router?20:01
kreigyah, I played with his n800 for awhile and didn't have the problem on his ten20:01
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kreigtrevarthan: yah, I can find a bar to test it at, and have some testing beers too20:01
trevarthanyeah, try that. if it still crashes, get it replaced under warranty.20:01
kreigI figure if it still blows up, then I got a bum machine, because I have several friends with them and they haven't mentioned this20:01
trevarthanif it doesn't blow up, get the router replaced.20:02
kreigoh man, that is TWO routers on this LAN that need replacement20:02
trevarthanwell, don't jump to conclusions yet. try it on another network first.20:02
kreigthey are old, cheap linksys crap20:02
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kreigso, is ther ea equiv to iwconfig?20:03
* k8 O_O20:03
pupniknice, about 300 ml of orange juice on my compaq keyboard and it still works20:03
pupniki just *poured* it out... :/20:04
kreigsomething is wacky here20:04
trevarthankreig: I don't know regarding iwconfig. I've never needed it. The GUI does a really good job.20:04
kreigI can ping the router, but can't connect to it's web interface20:04
pupnikyeah ifconfig works20:04
kreigwell ifconfig doesn't tell me nifty things about the wireless connection20:05
trevarthankreig: can't you get that from the control panel?20:05
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kreigtrevarthan: nope20:05
pupniki don't have iwconfig on the 770 though20:05
kreigI think I might try to reflash it20:07
oraklethat's wireless-tools20:07
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kreigopera is sucking20:07
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kreigI can ping the shit, but operate is crapping it's pants20:07
trevarthankreig: try installing microb20:08
kreigor it could be that the router lameness is letting ICMP packets thru but dropping others20:08
Hurghyes that was one of the first things i downloaded20:09
trevarthanmicrob works better than Opera for some sites (though overall I find it slower and buggier)20:09
trevarthanmicrob crashes like crazy on ITT. so annoying.20:09
Hurghi had no crash so far20:09
kreigbewm, another crash20:12
kreigorakle: is wireless-tools the name of the package?20:13
Luriaafter i installed rtcomm, contacts default to showing avatars. so I know how to switch "contacts" to list view... but now "speed contacts" is stuck in avatar display and takea up too much space on the desktop. anyone know if i can change the speed contacts display back to the old style?20:13
kreigok, it crashes, and then it reboots, and then it gets to the little hands touching splash screen and reboots again and then it is fine20:14
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kreigthen it locks up when I launch x-terminal20:15
kreigI'm getting suspicious that I got a bad unit20:15
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kreigI'm gonna reflash it20:15
kreignuke it all and see what happens20:15
pupnikyes reflash and test on another wlan if possible20:16
kreigi want the n800 luv20:17
kreigi know it is there20:17
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kreigmy goal is to right a program to crash my pals iPhone when we are on the same wlan20:18
kreigso far, it looks like I'm in trouble 8)20:18
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Siliciumhi there20:18
_Monkeyhi, Silicium20:18
Siliciumare there problems with the repositorys?20:18
erstazihi Silicium20:18
erstaziSilicium, _Monkey is a bot20:19
Hurghtrying installing canola?20:19
erstaziSilicium, and which repositories, n800 or 770?20:19
erstaziSilicium, I am not too sure about OS2007's repos... but you might need some GPG keys20:19
kreigSilicium, make sure to chang ethe COmponents field too, form user to free non-free20:19
kreigI got a gpg error on the nokia repo as well20:20
Siliciumi have the problem since yesterday20:20
kreigthe 3rd party one had a bad signature20:20
kreigit was yesterday when I tried it for the first time20:20
Siliciumthe gpg error is imho only a  warning20:20
erstaziwhen I get a bad signature, I just go through the repos with a browser and download20:20
Siliciumhmm, ok20:21
Siliciumare there a new gpg key available?20:21
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kreigcan ou flash this thing from linux?20:27
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Luriawhy does the scifi network suck?20:31
Hurghkreig of course ^^20:32
kreigok, flashed it and still it is fucky20:33
kreigi pack it up, and head towards Nokia store and try it on a different wlan on the way there20:33
kreigmy wlan is definetly old and abnormal20:34
kreigfor instance, the DHCP server is a different router than the wiresless one20:34
kreigand so on...20:34
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kreigwell, it's a bum unit20:55
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kreigI went ot the public library and it lockedup and went kaplooey20:55
kreigthat is to wlan's20:55
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kreigluckily I live near the flagship Nokia store here in Chicago20:56
kreiglet's go see how their customer service is20:56
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Luriawell, its good in nyc20:59
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CyorxampLo, I'm getting an N800 soon but I need to know something from the horses mouth21:01
CyorxampI used to have Jornada 928, a device that also has a texas instruments processor21:02
CyorxampIs the N800 with its OMAP 300mhz a little on the slow side? at all?21:02
CyorxampMy Jornada is now 5 years old! and the texas CPU it has isn't that much different than the N800's21:03
disqit's much better than the n770, but i guess a little more juice wouldn't hurt21:03
CyorxampI'm getting a new phone on monday on contract with a 3G tarrif for data use (need a new phone that has bluetooth for the N800) - but I'm worried that the features of the nokia phone will be ultimately similar to the N800 :S21:04
CyorxampAnd I can't find any Linux PDA/Phones anywhere :( unless you want a hack jobbed XDA21:05
disqget the most basic 3g+bt phone if you're also getting a tablet21:05
Cyorxampthats a tall order21:05
disqthere's the neo1973 (openmoko) but afaik it's still beta21:05
Luriasamsung a71721:05
Luriaor 72721:05
Luriaor mot razr v3xx21:06
CyorxampA colour screen, bluetooth, 3G phone that doesn't do much else than call and text - they always have mp3 playback, and cameras, and all sorts of crap21:06
CyorxampLuria: both of those are phones, not what I'd call PDA/Phones21:07
Lurianone are smart phones. which is great if you have an n80021:07
Cyorxampdon't suppose theres word about the next nokia linux device being a PDA/Phone is there?21:08
CyorxampI'd put up with my Zaurus a little longer if that was the case21:08
Luriagod, i hope not21:09
Cyorxampanyone tried a Nokia E65 with a N80021:09
gla55_unlikely you'll see a phone maemo device too soon..21:09
disqyeah, it would be awful21:10
gla55_e65 should work brilliantly with n800..21:10
disqCyorxamp: probably. did you check ITT?21:10
gla55_it's not a bad phone otherwise either21:10
disq_Monkey: ITT?21:10
_MonkeyITT is
CyorxampI don't mind the whole phone and a pda thing - when the phone isn't trying to double up the feature set of the PDA21:10
gla55_just don't use the featuers if you don't care.. buying a device thats intentionally limited never made that much sense to me especially if the features were just a bit of software..21:11
Cyorxamprawr, ok theres on thing that annoys me then21:11
disqi have no use for PDA's, my phone's (nokia 6021, really basic and old) calendar is enough for me. I don't use outlook or another calendar on the pc, so no sync trouble :P21:11
gla55_deciding to not buy a phone that has the right size, featureset etc just because it has a smartphone os would be stupid21:11
Cyorxampit's fine that I can say... E65 for casual 'going out'-ness with the camera and shit and no pda21:11
CyorxampBut then I'd be annoyed theres no OGG playback!21:11
gla55_just get oggplay?21:12
Cyorxampon a E65?21:12
gla55_s60 3rd ed21:12
gla55_it's symbian21:12
Cyorxampso I can play ogg on the E65?21:12
gla55_  should work on it too21:13
Cyorxampcool :P21:13
Cyorxampsee now you're making me think along the lines of 'The Phone and the Operating System'21:13
CyorxampIt's not computer! the N800 is!21:13
gla55_of couse nobody is forcing you to install any 3rd party software on it if you don't want..21:14
* Cyorxamp goes into coma21:14
gla55_i'd still prefer s60 due to multitasking etc over a normal "featurephone"21:14
Luriai get the pda phone. i just think its dubious to combine mobility with the need to be near an outlet ;-) hence my n800+bt internet approach21:16
CyorxampDon't suppose maemo will come out for any other existing nokia (now symbian powered) devices ?21:17
CyorxampOk ok ok ok ok.... nevermind that21:19
erstaziCyorxamp, yeah, maemo is the community21:19
Cyorxampand the community that drives the next release of the OS21:19
erstaziCyorxamp, but symbian based... I highly doubt that21:20
CyorxampE65 + N800 - fair enough... in terms of the information the E65 can stores (calanders, contacts, pictures, videos, etc etc...) can it sync nicely with the N800 ?21:20
CyorxampSome kind of odd version of gnokii for N800 ? :P21:20
erstaziCyorxamp, tablets work fine enough without a Symbian based OS.21:20
Cyorxampwhat are you on about?21:21
erstaziI think if Nokia is smart (which they usually are except that last blunder of a phone they just released), they will stick with an open source OS21:21
erstaziCyorxamp, are you referring to phones or tablets?21:22
erstazithat will clear things up21:22
Cyorxamp<Cyorxamp>> E65 + N800 - fair enough... in terms of the information the E65 can stores (calanders, contacts, pictures, videos, etc etc...) can it sync nicely with the N800 ?21:22
CyorxampI'm very clearly on about the E65 and N800 syncing21:22
disqyou can browse pics/videos/files on the phone from the n800, but there won't be any syncing21:23
Cyorxamptotally useless!21:23
CyorxampHas gnokii been added to the repo's ?21:23
erstaziCyorxamp, I am not sure about the E65, but does it have BT?21:23
Cyorxampyeah erstazi it does, or it'd be a poor choice21:24
disqthere's a project in the garage that uses gnokii. not sure about the name21:24
gla55_of course it has..21:24
disqdialer? or something?21:24
Cyorxampbugger it, I'm not getting an E65 - even if its free when i go on contract, it'll annoy the hell out of me21:25
erstaziugh I hate when svn does this21:25
disqCyorxamp: this project has, and uses, gnokii:
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Luriaoh new ukmp release. neat.21:26
Cyorxampdisq, the OS does have a proper packagement management doesn't it ? -  i.e. apt-get whatever I want on the go via 3G21:26
CyorxampI'm getting this because I love my debian :P21:26
disqyeah but you can't install regular debian packages21:27
disqthey have to be compiled for armel (not arm)21:27
Cyorxampyeah I realise that21:27
erstaziCyorxamp, yeah, you have to make sure its for the ARM(el) architecture21:27
Cyorxampyes thank you!21:27
Cyorxampjees, I've been using PDA's that are ARM and also a linux Zaurus for ages - I get the diff!21:27
erstaziget this, you can grab the source and package it yourself for armel arch through scratchbox21:27
LuriaCyorxamp, i hope someone told you, you need to recompile debs for armel.21:28
erstaziand the documentation for porting is very well formed compared to others out there21:28
erstaziLuria, heh21:28
CyorxampSo, when bought - it'll have a link to the maemo repo URL already in it>?21:28
erstaziCyorxamp, yes, there are even people's sources.list they posted in the wiki or in forums like ITT21:28
pupnikactually the nokia tablets use gentoo and you need to compile everything21:28
erstazipupnik, heh21:29
Cyorxampand presumably some variation of synaptic to stop you from hitting terminal all the time21:29
* pupnik ducks21:29
erstazithat would be a distro that would be fun to see ran on a nokia21:29
Lurianot run... crawl21:29
disqCyorxamp: there's the "application manager" which basically does apt-get update and invokes apt/dpkg to install stuff on user's request. you can manage the sources.list from there too, etc.21:30
Luriahow many people here are zaurus refugees ?21:30
* Cyorxamp raises hand21:30
Luriathe app manager blows.21:30
CyorxampI'm gonna turn my zaurus into an Alarm Clock :P21:30
erstaziI find just using xterm and apt-get update or apt-get install foo works fine as well21:30
Luriai had a 5600? you?21:31
CyorxampI've still got a 550021:31
erstaziI think my sources.list is very up to date with the different repos that are *working* for OS200621:31
Luriamy 5600 wont take a charge21:31
CyorxampLuria the OZ team have really fucked things up tho - and the repositories are totally broken21:31
Cyorxamptime to jump ship21:31
amrdo i anounce a public away mesage?21:32
pupnikamr: not yet21:32
amroh good21:32
Cyorxampit looks nice, theres no silly camera, its bluetooth21:32
amrnew client and it told me it had set me away21:32
Cyorxampdamnit no 3G21:33
Luriai thought about moving to a 1000 or a 3200, but the nokia seemed wiser.  i do miss the keyboard though.21:33
pupniki love the thinkoutside stowaway - fits in the other pocket21:33
disqi got my keys and phone in the other pocket21:33
Luriayeah... i have the think outside (now igo ultra slim)21:34
erstazihonestly, when I first got my nokia a while back, I thought I was going to break it instantly (especially with kids and travelling)21:34
Luriamy "kit" is:21:34
Lurian800, iblue 757 pro, ultra slim, retractable usb; all in a civilian labs bag.21:35
Cyorxampis N800 micro or mini SD I forget21:36
Cyorxampstupid card manufacturers!21:36
erstaziiblue 757 pro is a bt keyboard right?21:36
Luriaonly this left is a solar panel and a replacement for my class 4 edge phone.21:36
Luriaiblue 757 pro is a solar gps21:37
disqCyorxamp: two full-size sd slots21:37
LuriaCyorxamp, its normal sd(hc)21:37
erstazinice Luria21:38
Luriawhen i said ultra slim, i meant an igo ultra slim model bt kybd21:38
erstaziLuria, I think that might be my next investment is gps21:38
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erstaziLuria, if you don't mind me asking, how much was the igo keyboard?21:39
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Luriawhich is should be using, 'cause the thumb board makes me tired21:39
CyorxampWow I can only fine ONE (1, one, uno, I) Nokia phone without camera, but with 3G and BT21:39
CyorxampHow does a E60 + N800 sound?21:39
Cyorxampdamnit it's got symbian crap!21:40
erstaziCyorxamp, I know some who join here use that combo21:40
erstazibut I do not know about sharing files21:40
CyorxampCard slot: RS-DV-MMC, hotswap21:40
Cyorxampbleh!? not mini/normal/micro SD ?21:41
CyorxampI know SD is based on MMC - but thats not clear21:41
Lurianot at all. it used to be think outside. the model (with the new name) still goes for $100 (reputable nyc b&m store)21:41
erstaziCyorxamp, last I knew, n800 can take a mmc/rs-mmc card21:42
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Luriaive seen it for much more on line. but also less - about 70 is the best ive seen.21:42
Luriait ain't perfect - the number row is a trade off and the question mark on the up arrow is problematic for irc21:44
CyorxampabhGh gdh chjejip efo[qwd0eriu w21:44
Luria(which is why you will sometimes see me repeat a sentence from minutes before and then immediately ask a question ;-)21:45
Luriawhat? forgot this isnt #klingon?21:45
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CyorxampNo one in that channel :P21:47
CyorxampSo disappointing !21:47
CyorxampI think I might let O2 give me one of these horrid E65 phones, does anyone know if the media player (or any others you know you can download) can swap from MP3 to OGG naturally?21:48
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Luriaa lone warrior, alone, searching for honor. on irc. alone.21:48
CyorxampOn the OpenZaurus OS it comes with XMMS ... which does this nice - but on the normal Zaurus OS, its a case of using 'Media Player' and OGGPlay21:48
gla55_Cyorxamp: what you mean with swap naturally?21:49
CyorxampA good 75% of my music is in OGG, but it spoils it when those few tracks arn't and a different bit of software is needed to play it21:49
gla55_Cyorxamp: if you use oggplay on s60 you can use it to play both mp3's and oggs like21:49
gla55_iirc at least21:50
Luriai prefer unnatural swapping.21:50
Cyorxamphmm, is the oggplay you've on about not the same as the oggplay I use on my zaurus ?21:50
gla55_too bad mmf plugin that would be supported by the built in player would need all-tcb signing from nokia21:50
gla55_it's symbianoggplay21:50
Cyorxampoh cool, yeah not the same21:51
CyorxampI take it the whole 3G Phone + Bluetooth + N800 .... thing, is a walk in the park?21:54
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kulveit is21:54
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Cyorxampok I've had a think, I've come to the conclusion the N800 is pointless - but its been great chatting and I thank you for your help! :P22:03
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Cyorxampthe only thing I'm buying is Pizza :P22:12
Cyorxampand maybe a SL-C3200 or a UMPC :P22:12
qgilCyorxamp: just curious, have you used the N80022:14
Cyorxampnope, no shops around here have one - been phoning all day22:14
qgilCyorxamp: where do you live22:14
CyorxampUK, above Stoke-on-Trent22:14
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qgilCyorxamp: as far as I know in the UK you find it in some chains in main streets and malls22:16
Cyorxampnokia lists only two nokia shops in staffordshire - none near me22:16
Cyorxampand no guarantees they will have the N80022:16
CyorxampI've changed my mind about the N800 anyway - it does seem kinda pointless now, I fell in love with the whole debian factor22:17
qgildixons, currys, carphone house... but ok, I'm not selling devices  :)22:17
CyorxampTo me it now just looks like a E45, that had a big screen, no phone or 3G, and an oversized onscreen keyboard22:18
CyorxampI'd rather go for a clamshell design like the Zaurus SL-C3200 or like most UMPC's22:19
CyorxampMy SL-5500 has a thumbpad, as did my Jornada 928 ... I'd miss it22:19
qgilCyorxamp: np, see you in 2009  ;)22:20
CyorxampOh do tell :P22:20
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Cyorxampqgil: ?22:23
qgilCyorxamp: yes22:23
Cyorxamp' np, see you in 2009  ;) ' - what do you mean!22:23
qgilCyorxamp: that you are looking the Nokia N800 from a Nokia phones perspective - I believe it will take you a while to realize that this is a wrong perspective22:24
qgilthe while will be longer or shorter depending on how much time it take for you to enjoy 60 minutes of tablet in your hands22:24
qgilso my guess is... 2009  :)22:25
Cyorxampbut it doesn't do anything new - at all22:27
Cyorxampit's an internet tablet - that you can only use when huddled under the shelter of a wifi area - not for on the go22:28
Cyorxampit can't sync with its own nokia phones for interconnectivity22:28
Cyorxampits debian sure, which is yum yum yum - but I suspect glossed over22:29
qgilCyorxamp: I won't tell you are not right: you are22:29
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qgilCyorxamp: it's just that you are missing the combination of factors that make these devices interesting22:30
Cyorxampthe new zaurus is yum - only sharp turn their back on you if your not japenese22:30
CyorxampI don't see what your getting at, neither have you explained22:30
qgilCyorxamp: well, it's not easy to explain it - since I got my 770 I start using it and since then, well22:31
qgilCyorxamp: I should find an explanation if I would be a seller - lucky I'm not - I'm just a happy user (full disclosure: and a Nokia employee)22:32
gla55_i dunno if i'd want to sync my 770 and n95..22:35
gla55_for mail etc.. just use the same online servers from both..22:35
qgilCyorxamp: I think i've got it: it's 800px wide resolution and fits in my (jacket) pockets22:35
Cyorxampbut thats it, a big screen - I already said that22:35
qgilCyorxamp: for me this is accessing to the web normally22:36
qgilCyorxamp: this is what I mostly do with computers22:36
Cyorxampas can many other PDA's with far less problems elsewhere22:36
gla55_no other pda has been so good for me for web22:37
qgilCyorxamp: then  I would match the other PDA's with the other factor: open platform to experiment whatever22:38
CyorxampI can't see how googling and searching pages, and filling out forms, and chatting on web pages is good when 90% of your screen becomes a keyboard!22:38
Cyorxampas is a Zaurus22:38
Cyorxamptheir only problem is no wifi!22:38
Cyorxampbut a proper keyboard!22:38
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qgilCyorxamp: with the tablet I'm making my passive web use: read email/web pages, listen/view stuff + little actions: brief answers, pings, clicks...22:39
qgilCyorxamp: then at home/work I do the longer active tasks that require good keyboard and etc22:40
qgilwith my laptop22:40
gla55_it's not a laptop replacement..  well.. sort of maybe if you get bt keyboard22:40
qgilwell, and RAM, CPU, screen resolution - it is definitely not a laptop / PC substitute, but it's a great compagnion22:41
trevarthanQuestion for my fellow OSS developers out there: What do you think about accepting donations for software?22:42
qgiltrevarthan: accepting or asking for?22:43
Cyorxampgood providing they don't affect the course of the development - like TransGaming does with Cedega22:43
Cyorxampand optional, not a 'forced donation' for a serial like X-Chat for Windows is22:43
erstazitrevarthan, one of the companies I am contracted to donates to FOSS22:43
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trevarthanqgil: accepting22:44
erstazitrevarthan, what license did you release your apps with?22:44
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trevarthanmmmm.... yeah v2.22:45
erstazilegally, I believe you are ok to accept donations, let me verify22:45
disqi donate to OSS, but i never accepted/asked for any of my software before22:45
qgiltrevarthan: I don't see any difference than with any other donation : you ask the donor why and if the answer makes sense to you, you accept the money. If it doesn't, then don't.22:45
erstaziqgil, exactly22:46
disqdepends on the app though. it makes the aspect of development more business-y, so if i don't like the project as much as i used to like it, then i won't accept donations for it22:46
disqbecause that will force me to work on it which i don't want to do at that point anyway22:46
trevarthanI wouldn't mind doing a ransom for certain features. It would provide a way for the community to motivate me to work on things that I have little to no interest in.22:46
trevarthanBut I don't know if ransoms ever work, or if there is a professional way to go about it.22:46
qgiltrevarthan: free software is about free-as-in-speech, the economical component is not conditioned22:47
erstaziunless you have a special license with the so-said entity22:47
trevarthanqgil: sure. but if I have no interest in developing a feature, and no-one else does either, then paying me to do it might help.22:47
erstazilike the project I am working on is going to be under those guidelines22:47
* k8 is away: Out22:48
qgiltrevarthan: but that's ok and has nothing to do with GPL itself: you are the author and you decide what to work on and what are your incentives22:48
trevarthanOne of the problems I have with donations is that I'm not the only developer of Kagu. disq has helped considerably, and unique311 pitched in too. I wouldn't feel right accepting a donation when it isn't solely my work.22:48
trevarthanqgil: you're the one asking about the GPL. I know it doesn't conflict. I've read the GPL.22:49
erstazitrevarthan, well thats when you include them or have them donate to a different non-profit22:49
qgiltrevarthan: this is what I referred to about making sense or not: your situation would be the same if you would have a restaurant or a fazine22:49
qgilnot free software related only22:49
trevarthanah. right. gotcha22:49
erstazitrevarthan, if I was in your shoes, I would have them donate to a IRS 501(c)(3) because it helps with tax returns (:  (if you are in the US)22:50
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trevarthanah... now you're speaking tax crap. geez. I'd prefer to not have to deal with that.22:51
erstaziif the donation is spread out over 2 years, they receive 90% in tax cuts22:51
trevarthanSomeone should set up a website that acts as a clearinghouse for OSS donations and handles all that crap for you.22:51
erstazitrevarthan, well, just advice...22:51
disqtrevarthan: could ask what "part" that donation is for, and distribute the donation in "shares" (mind the double quotes there) depending on the answer. i only touched *some* of the code anyway22:51
disqbut yeah if it comes to tax returns and all that BS i wouldn't bother either :)22:52
trevarthandisq: you might have only "touched" some of it. But you've put in damn near as many hours as I have in debugging, fixing, and discussion. Easily as valuable.22:52
qgiltrevarthan: your donation looks more like a bounty, since it's conditioned to the development of a feature. I recommend you to read
erstazidisq, my point is, if its a considerable amount, then you could direct them to a non-profit of your favorite. but at the same time, it could be split amongst yinz22:53
trevarthanqgil: that was just one idea. I'm thinking about donations in general, bounties just being one part of it.22:53
trevarthanerstazi: yeah, I'd prefer to keep it in the project. I've never been a fan of giving money to non-profits.22:54
trevarthanqgil: reading that now, btw22:54
qgiltrevarthan: read it any way  :)  Money in floss development is like sex in youth: once you do it you have left something behind22:54
disqdisturbing analogy, i was looking for paying FOSS jobs22:55
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trevarthanI never regretted sex in youth. :) Maybe it depends on how you go about it. :)22:56
Luriahmmm same joke. move it to thailand.22:56
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Lurianow it's paying.22:57
Luriaokay, that was in poor taste.22:59
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trevarthanseems like if I added a public bounty for a feature, that would keep someone who just wanted to work on it for fun from doing it.23:01
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trevarthanyou'd have to receive payment then and there, and keep it hush hush or else it would hurt everyone else's motivation.23:01
trevarthanand you'd have to roll the feature out quickly23:01
trevarthanthat just doesn't seem real practical unless you're getting paid a lot for the feature.23:02
trevarthan"thank you" donations seem ok though. Seems like those would help the developer re-affirm their self worth. you know?23:03
disqi'd take an arstechnica review over any $30 donation23:03
ajturnertrevarthan: bounties are usually put out for a feature that someone really wants *now* because they either have more time than money or an actual business use for hte feature - and instead of paying one of their devs (or if they don't have devs) then it's a way to encourage the ad-hoc chaotic foss community to focus on that feature at that moment23:03
Siliciumhmm, where i can find the maemo mbr config and the kernel?23:04
ajturnerI've done bounties, and also paid features on FOSS - and continue to do free dev23:04
Silicium /boot is empty23:04
trevarthanajturner: yeah. It seems like public bounties are counter productive though.23:05
ajturnertrevarthan: I disagree23:05
disqSilicium: kernel is in a seperate mtd partition23:05
disqSilicium: i don't know specific details though. a search for "mtd" in could answer some of your questions23:06
ajturnerfrom what I've seen and done - without a bounty some features just languish - they're hard or left to their own devices the available devs aren't interested in it23:06
Siliciumok thanks23:06
ajturnerthe benefit factor isn't high enough measured in "fun" alone23:06
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trevarthanajturner: when have you ever seen a bounty paid out though? I see asterisk bounties all the time and nothing ever comes of them.23:06
Siliciumand are existing other compatible Bluetooth keyboard?23:06
ajturnerThreshold to Develop <= Fun + Money + Prestige23:07
Siliciumnot so for 150$23:07
ajturnertrevarthan: XBox hack, wxWidgets23:07
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ajturnerNintendoDS Wifi23:07
trevarthanajturner: how much were the bounty amounts?23:07
ajturnersomeone is working on getting Asterisk on iPHone I think23:07
ajturnertrevarthan: $3000 US23:08
ajturnerfor the DS Wifi23:08
ajturnerand yet there is still a very active community around even Wifi dev now - BECAUSE of that bounty enabled them23:08
disqbounties over a certain amount (a grand? not sure) are ok, but below that i think not many devs will bother23:09
ajturnertrevarthan: wxWidgets bounties:
disqif it's easy to do most of the time it'll get implemented for free anyway23:09
ajturnerdisq: but "when" will it get implemented?23:09
qgiltrevarthan: I keep the sex/money analogy - it's not the matter itself what makes it appropriate or not - it's the people involved, the friends, the context, the purpose23:10
ajturnerif I'm a business, I don't want a possible year lead time - I mayb e willing to pay $300 to have it this month23:10
qgilin some cases it works and everybody is happy, in some cases it causes more trouble than other thing23:10
qgilthere is not only one rule23:10
disqajturner: ok, a valid argument23:10
ajturnerqgil: but it's usually a problem with the people that weren't involved in the sex/bounty - they feel jealous & left out moreso23:10
ajturnertheir problem :)23:10
qgilajturner: did you follow the issue in Debian about some maintainers getting paid to get the release done?23:11
trevarthanlol. the sex reference again.23:11
ajturnerI missed how ti fits with Maemo dev - are their bounties being offered?23:11
qgilin GNOME the issue would be different23:11
qgilin Ubuntu it is different23:11
ajturnerqgil: no, didn't23:11
ajturnerhow is a bounty diff't from someone having a full-time job working on it?23:12
ajturnerI was actually surprised at GUADEC how many companies are now heavily invested in Gnome23:12
qgilthe context, the purpose...  :)23:12
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ajturnerin fact, the conference felt kinda... 'corporate' ;)23:12
ajturnerah, I see trevarthan asked if donations were ok23:13
milhousespeaking of guadec... quim, any progress on the presentations being posted to maemo? I'd really like to see the Modest presentation23:15
trevarthanso, that sounds like it would make the guys doing it for free feel bad23:15
qgilmilhouse: dirk is on holidays, so...23:15
trevarthanbut I'm not sure that's a bad thing.23:15
disqspeaking of guadec.. i'll see you all in istanbul next year. (kinda psyched)23:15
qgilmilhouse: anyway, in my queue - I also want to have all these prsentations out23:15
milhouseqgil: ah ok, that's cool - thanks23:16
qgilajturner: hum, have me met?23:17
qgilhave *we* met, I mena23:17
qgilm e a n23:17
ajturnerqgil: not sure if I ran into you at GUADEC? I presented on GeoClue with Henri Bergius (bergie) and Tuomas Kuosmannen23:18
ajturnerand also did the OpenStreetMap lightning talk23:18
milhouseWould this be the right time to ask about OS 2007HE progress? :)23:18
qgilajturner: I missed those sessions and many others due to GNOME & maemo colateral responsibilities  :(23:19
ajturnersorry to hear - they were back-to-back :)23:19
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qgilmilhouse: it's always right time to ask this - a different story is the time to have answers23:20
ajturnerqgil:  you didn't come out for sushi or beers with the rest of the Nokia Maemo team?23:20
milhousejust wondering if it's still on track :)23:20
milhousebeen a bit quiet23:20
qgilajturner: sushi yes, beers too23:21
milhouseshed loads of new interest in 770s lately - i think exceeding n800 interest! :)23:21
qgilmilhouse: it is on track, there is something quite ready - still with internal reviews though (and don't try to deduce any date from this because even myself fail at these exercises)  :)23:22
milhouseexcellent news - thanks quim23:22
milhousei'd be happy to help test whatever you have ready :D23:23
qgilit's more in the non-code side milhouse - please don't make much fuzz of this since, really, I don't know when will be ready to be published23:25
qgilby non-code I mean non-developer23:25
milhouseok, no problem - just wondering (others have asked on itt)23:25
qgilyes, I know - they also ask in  my blog  :)23:26
milhousemaybe a brief maemo update would suffice? :)23:27
milhouseessentially what you've said above23:27
milhousejust to calm the masses (of new 770 owners) :)23:27
qgillet me see if I can explain23:27
qgilto me there are 2 types of silence23:27
qgil1 type is we can't tell something because it's confidential etc23:28
qgilanother type is we can't tell something because there are still details missing and to awake and then frustrate expectations we prefer to say nothing23:28
* sp3000 was anticipating another allegory involving sex23:28
qgilnow is the second category23:29
milhouseok, but bear this in mind... a few weeks back (6+?) it was announced that os 2007he would be released in "weeks not months") - i'd provide a link to the maemo news archive but... ;)23:29
qgilsp3000: the last I would like is to get quoted in a sentence combining 770, silence and sex  ;)23:29
milhousesince then - no news. definately worth just posting something that says "it will be a bit longer but not much" - no details required beyond that23:30
milhousebecuase now it is getting into months, rather than weeks :)23:30
qgilmilhouse: and what if I write "not much" and then it happens that is somewhat "Much"?23:30
qgilmilhouse: when *I* wrote that "weeks not months" I really thought would be like this23:31
qgilthen the unplanned comes and etc23:31
qgilI can also quote sentences from maemo mailing lists or ITT of people (with their full right) saying that releases and changes matter more than more words23:32
milhouseqgil: absolutely, and i understand that you need to remain vague and even the best intentions of mice and men etc. mean the project slips... but from an end users point of view the "radio silence" surrounding OS 2007HE doesn't bode well. Remember that OS 2007 on 770 has caused a lot of angst so just a few words to say the project hasn't slipped off the radar would be nice23:33
qgilI think the best message is to release the new HE version - in the meantime perhaps silence is not the best option, but writing 'something' has its risks too23:33
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milhouseexpectation management is one phrase that springs to mind... without the need to give an exact date, just something to say it's ticking along and not forgotten23:34
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milhouse"OS 2007HE UPDATE: It's still going to happen, hang in there. End of update." :)23:35
milhouseDevil you do, devil you don't I guess23:35
qgilalright, I'll do it but in the middle waters - enough to get me quoted in something less volatile than in an IRC log23:36
milhouseargh... don't make me feel guily!23:37
milhousethanks :)23:37
qgilI'm trying to write this misc blog post, I'll add a 770 postdata - I'll sleep much better after that23:37
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milhousethank you!23:38
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qgilno, thank you23:38
milhousei hope it doesn't back fire on you - if it does, you can say you "told me so" :)23:39
qgilI don't mind getting back fired on stuff we are working on  :)23:39
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pellosyn syn syn23:48
pelloare you aware of a minimcom / cu n800 package?23:48
milhouseReview of the T-Mobile Ameo in this months T3 mag, got 4 out of 5 stars, has a 640x480 screen costs £500 and was criticised for not being able to show Flash or YouTube... how does it get 4 stars?! The N800 got 3 stars at most (could have been 2) costs less, does more. What gives?23:48
milhouseI know T3 isn't a great tech mag (was once) but still... can't the reviewers be edumacated by Noka when they are given the device to review? :)23:50
infobotmilhouse meant: I know T3 isn't a great tech mag (was once) but still... can't the reviewers be edumacated by Nokia when they are given the device to review? :)23:50
pelloare you aware of a minimcom / cu n800 package?23:50
milhousethink i need to cancel my T3 sub an' all.23:50
qgilmilhouse: this bloog entry is getting too gnomeish and the PS looks like totally out of context23:51
qgilmilhouse: recommend me an itt thread and I'll post there23:51
milhousehow about having Carlos post a blog update?23:51
milhousehang on, i'll go search - deffo one at least23:51
qgilconvince Carlos that silence category 2 is not the best option  ;)23:52
milhousehere you go:
milhousetitle: Is OS 2007 ever going to come? :)23:52
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