| glizitch | super mario bros. 2 works just fine | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| glizitch | w/o sound | 00:00 |
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| glizitch | id say this emu works | 00:03 |
| glizitch | pretty good | 00:03 |
| glizitch | minus the sound | 00:03 |
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| erstazi | glizitch, what emu are you using? | 00:04 |
| glizitch | fceu | 00:05 |
| tso | erstazi: that url you gave me just gives me a 404 | 00:05 |
| erstazi | tso, I am working on porting an update | 00:05 |
| tso | oops, forget it, my bad... | 00:05 |
| pauliukas | Is the 770 using a normal fluorescant backlight or LED? | 00:05 |
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| tso | i dont think even the N800 uses led... | 00:07 |
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| sparr | if anyone can tell me where http://maemo.org/downloads/him-plugin-examples/him-plugins-sdk-example-0.0.2.tar.gz might have moved to, i would be most grateful | 00:09 |
| sparr | OR where to find the .xml version of the default .vkb keyboard definitions | 00:09 |
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| tso | ok, thats promising. i tried to start maemo mapper. it failed. i hit the application manager thinking about reinstalling it, and i got the nokia logo in my face... | 00:37 |
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| tso | uhoh, i smell a reboot loop. it just sits there displaying the logo and ever so often blinking the screen :( | 00:38 |
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| ||cw2 | tso: I had something similar happen with mapper recently | 00:41 |
| ||cw2 | tso: take the battery out for about 30 seconds, fixed it for me | 00:41 |
| amr | why does my tablet keep displaying a 'nokia' screen | 00:41 |
| amr | it boots into the homepage | 00:41 |
| tso | it didnt rebootloop. it just used a very long time shutting down. and then a unusualy long time booting before the load bare was show. still no mapper running tho... | 00:42 |
| tso | ||cw2: well see if your suggestion works :) | 00:43 |
| ||cw2 | worked for me, and good thing too because I was in a canoe on a river | 00:44 |
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| tso | wtf?! | 00:44 |
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| ||cw2 | used google maps satellite images, was awesome | 00:45 |
| tso | noted :) | 00:45 |
| sparr | its going to take hours to rewrite the default keyboard from only the xml schema | 00:45 |
| sparr | i wish the xml file was available... its not like its any sort of secret | 00:45 |
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| tso | hmm, looks like nokia plans on standardizing on the microusb port | 00:46 |
| ||cw2 | FWIW, in non-full screen mode so the screen would dim the battery lasted nearly 8 hours tracking the whole time | 00:46 |
| sparr | tso: mini-A or mini-B? | 00:46 |
| tso | sparr: | 00:46 |
| erstazi | sparr, look in ~/.osso | 00:46 |
| tso | sparr: no clue | 00:46 |
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| sparr | does ssh into the 770 take longer than it should for anyone else? 20-30 seconds before i get a password prompt | 00:47 |
| saaib | WWOOHHO !!!! aaahh ! AAAH !!! Excited | 00:47 |
| saaib | my package just arrived! | 00:47 |
| saaib | hehehe | 00:47 |
| erstazi | saaib, haha | 00:47 |
| sparr | erstazi: not in ~/.osso | 00:47 |
| saaib | I'm going to take a pic from the close package | 00:47 |
| erstazi | sparr, I never noticed a problem with ssh doing that | 00:47 |
| erstazi | sparr, dropbear or openssh? | 00:48 |
| tso | hmm, didnt fix mapper. i have a feel i messed up the libsqlite or something | 00:48 |
| sparr | dropbear | 00:48 |
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| _Monkey | i guess dropbear is a relatively small SSH 2 server and client. http://matt.ucc.asn.au/dropbear/dropbear.html | 00:48 |
| sparr | my guess is that its being launched by inetd (or similar) | 00:48 |
| erstazi | sparr, I use openssh | 00:48 |
| ||cw2 | sparr: that's about right, and ssh'ing into a 586 200Mhz SoC system with 128 meg ram takes just about as long | 00:48 |
| sparr | as opposed to running as a daemon | 00:48 |
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| sparr | regarding the keyboard... what im looking for is the xml version of /usr/share/keyboards/en_US.vkb | 00:48 |
| sparr | or any other keyboard there | 00:48 |
| ||cw2 | tso: try starting again, mine took a couple times as well, it did eventually start and my track was intact | 00:49 |
| milhouse | use public/private keys... only takes a couple of seconds to login and i don't even have to enter a password. :) | 00:49 |
| erstazi | I would suppose it would be in the %gconf.conf | 00:49 |
| sparr | milhouse: openssh? | 00:49 |
| _Monkey | openssh is a FREE version of the SSH connectivity tools that technical users of the Internet rely on. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/openssh/ | 00:49 |
| milhouse | sparr: yes i use openssh | 00:49 |
| milhouse | thanks _monkey | 00:49 |
| tso | hmm, i wonder. can one install gaim and pidgin side by side? | 00:49 |
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| erstazi | sparr, I use openssh and if that link that I gave monkey doesn't work, tell me | 00:49 |
| milhouse | tso - why would you want to? pidgin is gaim | 00:50 |
| sparr | well, except for the slow login, dropbear seems to work fine, and its a lot smaller (storage and memory) than openssh... i might stick with it | 00:50 |
| erstazi | pidgin is the name for gaim | 00:50 |
| tso | just for the hell of it :P | 00:50 |
| erstazi | s/the name/the new name | 00:50 |
| tso | btw, i wished they dropped the input area and just went straight for the virtual keyboard on the push of a onscreen button or something... | 00:50 |
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| tso | as in the thumbs keyboard. btw, i would love for it to be the default keyboard. even if it as some issues with input field on websites | 00:51 |
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| tso | hrmf, i have a feel that me messing around with gpe 2.8 somehow messed up libsqlite :( | 00:54 |
| tso | heh, trying to run maemo mapper using xterm gave me a seg fault... | 00:55 |
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| zaf | hmm, what's the latest flash available on 770, and how do i get it? | 01:03 |
| ||cw2 | zaf: the one that comes with it is 6, there is no upgrade | 01:03 |
| zaf | flashplayer, sorry | 01:03 |
| zaf | doh | 01:03 |
| cbx33 | well | 01:04 |
| cbx33 | i guess that card is just knackered | 01:04 |
| ||cw2 | deep subject | 01:04 |
| cbx33 | works fine on pc | 01:04 |
| cbx33 | but massive IO errors on the n800 | 01:04 |
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| cbx33 | nn all | 01:04 |
| cbx33 | thanks for the help | 01:04 |
| cbx33 | i'll get to the bottom of this | 01:05 |
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| pauliukas | Hey guys. Anyone still alive? | 01:34 |
| pauliukas | I can't get SSL in browsers to work/ | 01:34 |
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| * saaib has now some naughty pics with his new 770 | 01:41 | |
| * pauliukas too | 01:41 | |
| pauliukas | http://pr.gstutor.com/nokia770_2.jpg | 01:41 |
| pauliukas | http://pr.gstutor.com/nokia770_1.jpg | 01:41 |
| saaib | nice :) | 01:42 |
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| pauliukas | thx | 01:43 |
| pauliukas | bad quality, but those are quicksnapshots. | 01:43 |
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| syntux | Ok, I got scratchbox installed and added new user with sbin/sbox_newuser but still getting permission denied when trying to run ./login; | 01:46 |
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| Mikho | should you add yourself to the sbox group? | 02:03 |
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| solmumaha | any linux users that wanted upnp transcoding awake? | 02:30 |
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| notpeter | yep | 02:30 |
| solmumaha | there's support now in mediatomb svn | 02:30 |
| solmumaha | you can use external programs to do transcoding | 02:31 |
| solmumaha | like 770-encode.pl | 02:31 |
| solmumaha | but i didn't get it working | 02:31 |
| solmumaha | works fine with xbmc, but not with n800's media player or media streamer | 02:32 |
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| notpeter | hmmm... | 02:32 |
| solmumaha | so if anyone is interested on testing, please do and report | 02:32 |
| notpeter | i have a 770...let me see if I can get mediatomb up and running | 02:33 |
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| solmumaha | there's no need to actually install it | 02:34 |
| solmumaha | you can just compile and run | 02:34 |
| solmumaha | i can give you a config for it | 02:34 |
| solmumaha | or just add this to your config: http://pastebin.ca/650001 | 02:35 |
| solmumaha | could be a format thing too | 02:39 |
| solmumaha | but n800 plays it if i transcode it and transfer it to device or serve it via mediatomb without transcoding | 02:39 |
| solmumaha | and developer didn't see anything weird in my dumps | 02:40 |
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| notpeter | solmumaha: you still around? | 03:00 |
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| Hyperion2010 | is there anywhere that the lastest firmware version is listed for the n800? | 04:03 |
| ||cw2 | maemo.org | 04:06 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that maemo.org is ok here, but garage.maemo.org is down (and has been down for several hours) | 04:06 |
| sparr | opera on my 770 isnt displaying any images... help? | 04:06 |
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| notpeter | sparr: Check this....view->Show Images->Always | 04:08 |
| sparr | heh, is canola going to have a problem with my upnp media server indexing a few thousand videos? :) | 04:09 |
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| shackan | argh, so much porn ???? | 04:10 |
| pauliukas | LOL | 04:11 |
| sparr | :-p | 04:11 |
| sparr | not sure if gmediaserver was actually serving anything | 04:12 |
| sparr | gonna try running it with different options | 04:12 |
| sparr | any canola users? how does canola 'find' my media server? | 04:16 |
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| NeoStrider | hello there? | 04:40 |
| suma | sparrw: , that is a funny player | 04:40 |
| NeoStrider | pupnik: are you there? | 04:40 |
| suma | sparrw: that is a funny player, (canola) they did not even play from my samba share | 04:40 |
| suma | pupnik went to meet his girlfriend | 04:42 |
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| sparr | suma: well, its not supposed to play from samba | 04:42 |
| sparr | gnumeric installs 8MB worth of worthless locale data... | 04:42 |
| suma | sparrw: once i mount then it should read like normal file | 04:42 |
| suma | kernel did not make any differentiation between local and remote file | 04:43 |
| suma | sparrw: i installed smb browser to mount the samba location | 04:43 |
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| sparr | suma: interesting | 04:45 |
| sparr | suma: and added the mount location to canola's library list? | 04:45 |
| suma | the gunny media streamer is also not playing the next song from upnp media server | 04:45 |
| suma | sparrw: yes, the web interface is really funny, i changed the ip address and want to configure from my PC, it did not work | 04:45 |
| suma | i rebotted too | 04:46 |
| suma | Media Streamer from Nokia is not playing the second song from the upnp media server | 04:48 |
| sparr | theres an option in the config that allows remote config, did you turn that on? | 04:48 |
| suma | sparrw: yes i did | 04:48 |
| suma | it works for you ? | 04:48 |
| sparr | not sure... | 04:48 |
| sparr | let me try | 04:48 |
| suma | what is the maemo 3.1 pool for ? | 04:48 |
| suma | it is for nokia 800 ? | 04:48 |
| sparr | no idea, im on 770 | 04:49 |
| sparr | with 2.2 | 04:49 |
| suma | i'm also on 770 | 04:49 |
| suma | but what is 3.1 for ? | 04:50 |
| rwhitby | n800 | 04:50 |
| suma | rwhitby: thanks | 04:50 |
| sparr | rebooting to try remote canola config | 04:50 |
| sparr | suma: remote config does not work for me | 04:53 |
| suma | sparrw: that is a funny player | 04:53 |
| suma | i don't what works on that | 04:53 |
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| pupnik | if the endgaget 'possible n800 successor' with the slide-out keyboard design was the real thing, would you buy it? | 05:47 |
| pupnik | s/was/were :) | 05:48 |
| pauliukas | dunno | 05:48 |
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| pauliukas | I got a good deal on the 770 and I'm loving it. | 05:48 |
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| sparr | a hardware keyboard is nice, but not uber important with a touch screen | 06:02 |
| sparr | now, a device like the gp2x with no touchscreen... THAT needs a keyboard | 06:02 |
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| unique311 | paint program that compiled for the N800...mypaint is really nice, so is rgbpaint | 06:10 |
| unique311 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBu7srp0WPs | 06:10 |
| pauliukas | lket's see | 06:11 |
| unique311 | rgbpaint has its issues, but look fixable to the knowing. | 06:12 |
| unique311 | mypaint, i love the brushes, and also how you can make your own brushes. | 06:12 |
| unique311 | pressure sensitivity rocks on it also. | 06:13 |
| pauliukas | whaaaa | 06:13 |
| pauliukas | n800 has pressure sensitivity? | 06:13 |
| pupnik_ | i haven't seen an app that uses it | 06:13 |
| unique311 | i guess it works with mypaint | 06:13 |
| pauliukas | hah. | 06:13 |
| pauliukas | How about 770 | 06:13 |
| _Monkey | i heard 770 was so cheap right now. is there any reason to go for the 800 instead if all i'm doing is running the web browser only? | 06:13 |
| unique311 | look at the video | 06:13 |
| unique311 | not sure how its going to fair with the 770 | 06:14 |
| pauliukas | ah | 06:14 |
| erstazi | ugh | 06:14 |
| unique311 | had to take out a line for it to stop crashing on the n800 | 06:14 |
| pauliukas | erstazi: Yes? | 06:14 |
| erstazi | so when I actually get around to porting pocketsphinx, who wants to test it? | 06:14 |
| pauliukas | I still didn't get OpenSSH on it, LOL. Can't find it. | 06:14 |
| pauliukas | What's that? | 06:14 |
| erstazi | openssh? | 06:14 |
| _Monkey | i heard openssh was a FREE version of the SSH connectivity tools that technical users of the Internet rely on. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/openssh/ | 06:14 |
| erstazi | pauliukas, ^^ | 06:15 |
| pauliukas | right... same error. | 06:15 |
| pauliukas | Gives me a "Not found?" dialog | 06:15 |
| milhouse | paul - open xterm, sudo gainroot, apt-get install ssh | 06:15 |
| erstazi | pocketsphinx is an app that allows you to have speech to text | 06:15 |
| erstazi | and I need to be able to understand how to change the input method | 06:15 |
| pauliukas | Lemme boot it up and try. | 06:15 |
| pauliukas | But why would I want OpenSSH instead of dropbear? | 06:16 |
| milhouse | install ssh at the command line... you can install it via red pill mode but if you've got root access and xterm installed it's easier via the command line | 06:16 |
| erstazi | which is somewhere under ~/.osso | 06:16 |
| erstazi | pauliukas, I prefer openssh | 06:16 |
| pauliukas | Isn't OpenSSH bigger and takes more RAM> | 06:16 |
| pauliukas | Well, why exactly? | 06:16 |
| erstazi | easier to config | 06:16 |
| pauliukas | ... | 06:16 |
| erstazi | less hassle | 06:16 |
| erstazi | more space absorbed | 06:16 |
| pauliukas | And can I control if it starts at boot or no | 06:16 |
| erstazi | pauliukas, it starts automatically if you boot | 06:16 |
| pauliukas | What if I don't want it to. | 06:17 |
| pauliukas | To give more RAM to other apps. | 06:17 |
| pauliukas | I bet you it's like 5MB RAM or so. | 06:17 |
| erstazi | I don't know | 06:17 |
| milhouse | pauliukas: fair question... i prefer ssh as it's a single install (i believe dropbear has a server and a seperate client component), ssh is "standardised" (openssh on my n800/770 is the same as open ssh on my Ubuntu server) and frankly ssh just works. it also has scp built in (for file transfer) | 06:17 |
| pauliukas | gotcha. | 06:17 |
| unique311 | pupnik_, mypaint use pressure sensitivity...and it works on the N800 | 06:17 |
| pupnik_ | mypaint looks a bit slower than mtpaint/rgbpaint, but it's doing alpha blended brushes | 06:18 |
| sparr | can anyone here run maemochron? what python lib has the 'parsers' module? | 06:18 |
| unique311 | again, rgbpaint is minimal... | 06:18 |
| unique311 | i was having issues wrtting sideways with the stylus | 06:19 |
| erstazi | milhouse typed it correct | 06:19 |
| unique311 | on mypaint. | 06:19 |
| erstazi | I have it on ubuntu and it works great | 06:19 |
| unique311 | but its not slow at all | 06:19 |
| unique311 | some of the brushes suck.. | 06:19 |
| pauliukas | And how do I start it for the first time? | 06:19 |
| pauliukas | I'm also getting a few errors on the terminal... But I'm assuming that's normal | 06:19 |
| unique311 | but you can delete the brushes you don't need and make new ones.. | 06:19 |
| pupnik_ | great vid thanks | 06:19 |
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| unique311 | np | 06:21 |
| pauliukas | So what's the username and login to it? | 06:21 |
| pauliukas | or do I just create one? | 06:21 |
| pupnik_ | root user password is 'rootme' normal user name is 'user' | 06:22 |
| pauliukas | I just changed the root pass. Is that bad? | 06:22 |
| pupnik_ | no | 06:22 |
| pauliukas | Oh, gotcha. | 06:22 |
| _Monkey | i think gotcha is you have to patch the system fonts | 06:23 |
| pauliukas | Should I make pass for user aswell? | 06:23 |
| pupnik_ | i do - doesn't break anything | 06:23 |
| pauliukas | I mean... you know. | 06:23 |
| pauliukas | If I'm on a public network. | 06:24 |
| pauliukas | Don't want anyone bruteforcing my SSH | 06:24 |
| erstazi | passwd user | 06:24 |
| erstazi | do it | 06:24 |
| erstazi | passwd root | 06:24 |
| erstazi | change it | 06:24 |
| _Monkey | erstazi: that doesn't look right | 06:24 |
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| pauliukas | Now... | 06:24 |
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| erstazi | I quited monkey | 06:24 |
| sparr | is there a stylus calibration tool that lets you move the cursor relative to the stylus in realtime? | 06:24 |
| erstazi | bia | 06:24 |
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| erstazi | sparr, I am satisfied, they did a great job for what it is costing | 06:25 |
| erstazi | pauliukas, then with openssh, you can do it | 06:25 |
| sparr | erstazi: so is that a no? | 06:25 |
| pauliukas | I know... but I meant... eh, nevermind. | 06:25 |
| erstazi | sparr, there are third party ones, I never used them | 06:26 |
| erstazi | I am a bit tipsy so don't mind me | 06:26 |
| pauliukas | oh geez. I think I lost your repos link, erstazi | 06:26 |
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| erstazi | http://c-wd.net/sources.list | 06:27 |
| pauliukas | thanks | 06:27 |
| erstazi | I need to move all that maemo stuff to its own directory | 06:27 |
| erstazi | I shall do it now | 06:27 |
| sparr | erstazi: my problem is that in a calibration tool im too anal, my behavior there never matches my behavior in a game correctly | 06:27 |
| erstazi | sparr, for an n800? | 06:27 |
| erstazi | or 770? | 06:29 |
| _Monkey | 770 is so cheap right now. is there any reason to go for the 800 instead if all i'm doing is running the web browser only? | 06:29 |
| erstazi | _Monkey, forget 770 | 06:29 |
| sparr | 770 | 06:29 |
| _Monkey | erstazi: I forgot 770 | 06:29 |
| erstazi | sparr, I don't play games on mine | 06:29 |
| sparr | i do | 06:29 |
| pauliukas | does "forget everything" work? | 06:29 |
| pauliukas | Any good games to recommend? | 06:29 |
| sparr | openttd (transport tycoon deluxe) | 06:29 |
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| pupnik_ | did you get it from ubuntu? | 06:31 |
| sparr | i installed nano-tiny... im not a nano user, so i dont know if ill miss the features | 06:31 |
| sparr | pauliukas: http://rafb.net/p/SWdz6553.txt | 06:31 |
| unique311 | gtkmydrawwidget.c | 06:31 |
| unique311 | yeah | 06:31 |
| unique311 | hold on pupnik_ | 06:31 |
| pauliukas | which one should I use... yours or erstazi's :-p | 06:32 |
| pupnik_ | that airbrush looks like exactly what i want for sketching | 06:32 |
| unique311 | pupnik_, http://www.getdeb.net/search.php?keywords=mypaint | 06:32 |
| sparr | they should be mostly the same | 06:32 |
| sparr | order notwithstanding | 06:33 |
| sparr | doom for the 770 is fun, but not exactly a great game. descent might be better, i gotta get data files to try it | 06:33 |
| sparr | i miss my gp2x :( | 06:33 |
| unique311 | pupnik_, gtkmydrawwidget.c might need to remove line 202, got crashes from that. | 06:33 |
| erstazi | pauliukas, honestly, they should be the same | 06:33 |
| sparr | the 770 is far superior for non-gaming... but the gp2x is hands down the best gaming handheld i ever owned | 06:33 |
| unique311 | not sure why | 06:33 |
| pupnik_ | sparr we gotta port all that gp2x goodness | 06:33 |
| sparr | no chance | 06:33 |
| pupnik_ | ok thanks unique311 | 06:33 |
| sparr | too different | 06:33 |
| sparr | touch screen vs not | 06:34 |
| unique311 | np | 06:34 |
| erstazi | I want to port some liquor in my belly | 06:34 |
| sparr | 12 input buttons vs ~5 | 06:34 |
| erstazi | Jack daniels... | 06:34 |
| pupnik_ | sparr i hope to prove you wrong someday | 06:34 |
| pupnik_ | but it's not easy :) | 06:35 |
| sparr | although | 06:35 |
| sparr | i did port enigma to the gp2x | 06:35 |
| sparr | THAT would make a fun game on the 770 | 06:35 |
| pupnik_ | never heard of it | 06:35 |
| sparr | go install it on your desktop | 06:35 |
| sparr | now. | 06:35 |
| pupnik_ | lets get drpocketsnes sparr | 06:35 |
| sparr | bah @ snes. only good for RPGs, as you said. and it will be slow as hell | 06:35 |
| pupnik_ | snes9x is almost playable - drpocketsnes should be 2x faster | 06:36 |
| sparr | i am doubtful | 06:37 |
| sparr | different definitions of "playable" :) | 06:37 |
| sparr | i require sound and 10fps+ minimum | 06:37 |
| sparr | on non-trivial games | 06:37 |
| pupnik_ | :) i was getting 25+fps on pacman | 06:37 |
| pupnik_ | ok | 06:37 |
| erstazi | pacman, never let that touch my 770, my wife will take it and never give it back | 06:37 |
| sparr | if my gp2x hadnt been stolen, i probably wouldnt have bought a 770 | 06:39 |
| erstazi | gp2x stolen? | 06:39 |
| sparr | was in a psp case, attached to my belt. someone cut it off me in a crowd. i wish i could have seen his face when he opened it and it wasnt a psp | 06:39 |
| erstazi | what is a gp2x? | 06:39 |
| _Monkey | a gp2x is probably too weak | 06:39 |
| sparr | rofl | 06:39 |
| unique311 | pupnik_, did you say pacman? | 06:39 |
| erstazi | _Monkey, forget gp2x | 06:39 |
| sparr | imagine if the 770 was designed for gaming instead of internet :) | 06:39 |
| _Monkey | erstazi: I forgot gp2x | 06:39 |
| sparr | _Monkey: botsnack | 06:39 |
| _Monkey | :) | 06:39 |
| erstazi | sparr, aye | 06:39 |
| pupnik_ | yeah public domain pacman from zophars runs great | 06:39 |
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| sparr | http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/gnuab/debian/pool-armel/main/h/hexedit/hexedit_1.2.12-2_armel.deb | 06:46 |
| sparr | if anyone needs a console hex editor | 06:46 |
| sparr | that works | 06:46 |
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| sparr | tscalibrate and pointercall have one glaring deficiency... they user a linear transformation with no allowance for non-linear correction. which means with a typical stylus and handheld, its impossible to tap the outer few pixels of the screen because of how the stylus touches the case and screen | 06:51 |
| sparr | i hate that | 06:51 |
| sparr | cant hit any pixels less than [stylus_radius] from the edge of the screen | 06:51 |
| pupnik_ | cool | 06:51 |
| sparr | note to self: get sharper stylus | 06:53 |
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| pupnik_ | i tried enigma and the mouse control was hard to figure out | 06:54 |
| ||cw2 | i've never seen a handheld UI designed in such a way that it was required to tap anything that close to the edge of the screen | 06:54 |
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| unique311 | note to self, get better screen protector.. | 07:00 |
| unique311 | those things suck | 07:00 |
| sparr | pupnik_: the mouse is unfortunately required on some of the quirkier levels. my gp2x port used a joypad, so those levels were simply unplayable | 07:00 |
| unique311 | for the n800 | 07:00 |
| unique311 | i like the original that came with the device. | 07:00 |
| sparr | ||cw2: openttd windows have VERY small close buttons, and they are often on the left edge of the screen. | 07:00 |
| sparr | very small as in 6 pixels, maybe 8 | 07:00 |
| pupnik_ | i have cursor visible and can tap to the very edge of the screen | 07:01 |
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| sparr | how do you get the cursor? | 07:02 |
| sparr | and... tapping the edge of the screen is not impossible... its just impossible if you precisely calibrate the middle. | 07:03 |
| pupnik_ | hmm | 07:03 |
| pupnik_ | i ran a script that created iconsBAK | 07:03 |
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| sparr | tscalibrate puts the crosshairs like 3/4 of the way out from the center... so if your "dead" area of the touchscreen is 4 pixels wide then you can tap the crosshair 3 pixels off in the other direction and gain access to the edge, at the cost of making the whole screen slightly less accurate | 07:03 |
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| erstazi | who maintains povbot? | 07:06 |
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| unique311 | pupnik, that iconsBAK script is my invention...yeah its being used.. | 07:12 |
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| unique311 | you have to move the contents of lib/python2.3 to python2.5 | 07:15 |
| pupnik | i copied the stuff from /usr/share over | 07:15 |
| unique311 | i know | 07:15 |
| glizitch | if it has the power i mean | 07:15 |
| unique311 | hold on | 07:15 |
| sparr | glizitch: no | 07:15 |
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| sparr | glizitch: a lot of software depends on libraries that havent been, and probably wont ever be, ported | 07:15 |
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| glizitch | i see | 07:16 |
| sparr | armel is not a popular target | 07:16 |
| glizitch | right | 07:16 |
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| unique311 | pupnik, you need to move the contents of /usr/lib to python 2.5 folder. | 07:16 |
| glizitch | why do i hear about ppl | 07:16 |
| glizitch | playing day of the tentacle | 07:17 |
| unique311 | its actually | 07:17 |
| glizitch | and other old games | 07:17 |
| pupnik | scummvm | 07:17 |
| glizitch | have they been ported ? | 07:17 |
| sparr | scummvm has been ported | 07:17 |
| sparr | scumm was the engine those games ran on | 07:17 |
| sparr | theres also a NES emulator, so you can play NES games | 07:17 |
| glizitch | sparr: awesome | 07:17 |
| glizitch | i got the nes emu working | 07:18 |
| glizitch | so i want scumm | 07:18 |
| glizitch | ? | 07:18 |
| unique311 | pupnik, mv -R usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/python2.3 /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/ | 07:18 |
| unique311 | pupnik, mv -R usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mypaint /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/mypaint | 07:18 |
| unique311 | the second one | 07:19 |
| _Monkey | the second one is, like, more of a js shell implemented in javascript for use w/ telnet | 07:19 |
| unique311 | feck you monkey | 07:20 |
| erstazi | _Monkey, forget the second one | 07:20 |
| _Monkey | erstazi: I forgot second one | 07:20 |
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| glizitch | from where ? | 07:23 |
| pupnik | debian mirrors | 07:23 |
| glizitch | which are where ? | 07:23 |
| pupnik | all over the planet :) | 07:24 |
| glizitch | can u point me in the right direction | 07:24 |
| glizitch | sheesh | 07:24 |
| glizitch | hehe | 07:24 |
| pupnik | http://www.google.com/search?q=%22beneath+a+steel+sky%22+scummvm+download | 07:25 |
| glizitch | thanx | 07:26 |
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| pupnik | heh or can buy it used for 22-28 gbp (30-40 euro?) :0 | 07:27 |
| erstazi | UKMP | 07:28 |
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| unique311 | pupnik, whats the status of mypaint on the 770? | 07:30 |
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| pupnik | not working | 07:31 |
| unique311 | get any errors? | 07:31 |
| pupnik | yes the one i pasted - the files weren't where you described | 07:32 |
| pupnik | but it was helpful, i didn't know about that python directory | 07:32 |
| unique311 | so after you corrected the python directory... | 07:34 |
| unique311 | it should've worked | 07:34 |
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| pupnik | http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/31/1629259 Germany outlaws 'hacker tools' | 08:03 |
| pupnik | traceroute has already been removed from one distribution | 08:03 |
| pupnik | They are deliberately transferring power from the Judicial Branch to the Executive Branch in order to appear "tough" on crime. When it's impractical to enforce a law that is broken by many people, the Executive Branch doesn't enforce it, unless they need an excuse to bust someone they don't like, or to search someone they're suspicious of. This gap between what is commonly enforced and what CAN be enforced, I like to call "The Facade | 08:03 |
| pupnik | All you need for tyranny is to pass laws that make most people criminals | 08:04 |
| pupnik | then you have arbitrary power of enforcement | 08:05 |
| pupnik | maybe this is why the tablets don't have 'ping' | 08:05 |
| milhouse | ping is in 4.2007 on n800 :) | 08:06 |
| pupnik | oh noes! | 08:06 |
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| timelyx | erstazi: i was the owner of an infobot on another server. the bot sorta runs w/o me now | 08:53 |
| erstazi | ah | 08:54 |
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| timelyx | X-Fade: some days i skip a sleep cycle. when you asked, that night was one of them | 08:54 |
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| timelyx | _Monkey: escapepod? | 08:55 |
| _Monkey | escapepod is ok | 08:55 |
| erstazi | escapepod.com | 08:55 |
| timelyx | _Monkey: i heard the 770? | 08:57 |
| _Monkey | timelyx: i don't know | 08:57 |
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| timelyx | _Monkey: forget escapepod | 09:00 |
| _Monkey | timelyx: I forgot escapepod | 09:00 |
| timelyx | _Monkey: escapepod is http://www.escapepod.org and also a popular flash crasher for microb | 09:00 |
| _Monkey | OK, timelyx. | 09:00 |
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| pupnik | timelyx: relevance of site? :) | 09:13 |
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| timelyx | pupnik: it was only mentioned because it crashes ;) | 09:18 |
| timelyx | oops | 09:18 |
| pupnik | ok i thought it was a deliberate browsercrash site | 09:18 |
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| timelyx | Application Manager is maemo's GUI over apt | 09:24 |
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| pupnik | y | 09:25 |
| timelyx | _Monkey: milhouse's username? | 09:26 |
| _Monkey | milhouse's username is UBSSuck (erm... a little investment bank i once worked for...) | 09:26 |
| timelyx | _monkey: built-in locale data | 09:27 |
| _Monkey | built-in locale data is taking up 6MB of sparr's base image. locale data for installed software is eating another 11MB | 09:27 |
| pupnik | is there a correct way to remove locales? | 09:27 |
| pupnik | in debian i use dpkg-reconfigure console-data iirc | 09:27 |
| pupnik | on 770 i just rm'd em | 09:28 |
| timelyx | _Monkey: gomiam | 09:29 |
| _Monkey | gomiam is right... "/join #maemo" does work :) | 09:29 |
| timelyx | _Monkey artemisprime | 09:31 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that artemisprime is logged off | 09:31 |
| timelyx | _Monkey: 1mb | 09:32 |
| _Monkey | 1mb is plenty | 09:32 |
| kulve | timelyx? | 09:32 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that timelyx is timelyx's mac, it has scrollback | 09:32 |
| pupnik | has einstein or einstein2 been spamming you on ITT forums? | 09:32 |
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| timelyx | _Monkey: 770 | 09:39 |
| _Monkey | 770 is, like, far superior for non-gaming... but the gp2x is hands down the best gaming handheld i ever owned | 09:39 |
| timelyx | _Monkey Rocketman's n800 | 09:42 |
| _Monkey | well, Rocketman's n800 is too busy streaming videos to chat with atm, so Rocketman is on Rocketman's desktop | 09:42 |
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| timelyx | pupnik: redpill mode? :) | 09:43 |
| timelyx | kulve: _Monkey is in passive mode, which means it learns lots of stupid stuff | 09:45 |
| timelyx | i'm suggesting people consider replacing a number of the more useful keys with something useful | 09:45 |
| kulve | pupnik: yes | 09:45 |
| kulve | very annoying (even though I got only one mail) | 09:46 |
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| pupnik | ok i got two messages... then it is a spammer, not just some retard | 09:48 |
| pupnik | imaredr writes on ITT forums "Just got a N770 for myself after seeing hubby so happy. " hehehe | 09:49 |
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| keesj | Hi mmpplzz | 10:24 |
| pupnik | nice comments Milhouse :) | 10:26 |
| pupnik | hi keesj :) | 10:27 |
| pupnik | keesj, when using synergy on it2006 i can sometimes not type into dialog boxes or xterm - i don't remember this happening with earlier experiments or with it2007 | 10:27 |
| pupnik | when i open a new opera or xterm tab, i can type into it | 10:27 |
| pupnik | very strange :/ | 10:27 |
| keesj | pupnik: on it2006 with xterm I had to restart the xterm after I changed the input method | 10:29 |
| keesj | perhaps this is the same kind of problem | 10:29 |
| pupnik | that might be it | 10:29 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:48 |
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| keesj | Hi Jaffa | 10:52 |
| pupnik | these psx RPGs are good :) | 10:55 |
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| Jaffa | pupnik: you got a PSX emulator running? | 10:57 |
| pupnik | on pc yes :P | 10:58 |
| Jaffa | bah | 10:58 |
| pupnik | it will be fun to compare the unoptimized snes9x and pcsx to the optimised versions | 11:05 |
| oil | heeelpp please | 11:05 |
| oil | how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file? | 11:06 |
| pupnik | you mean multiple repositories for one distro | 11:07 |
| pupnik | ? | 11:07 |
| oil | yes | 11:07 |
| oil | I need sw from 2 different sources and both are not on default lists | 11:08 |
| pupnik | can you add multiple repo_deb = lines? | 11:08 |
| oil | I'll try that, but then it will not go to under the original repository | 11:09 |
| oil | and, no not work | 11:10 |
| oil | hmm. maybe for temporary solution I just copy the original to my repo | 11:10 |
| pupnik | yes, or make two install links :/ | 11:11 |
| pupnik | one for dependencies, one for your package | 11:11 |
| oil | but for me it seems to install only the last one | 11:11 |
| oil | if I have [install] | 11:11 |
| oil | pla pla | 11:11 |
| oil | and [install] | 11:11 |
| oil | foobar | 11:11 |
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| Jaffa | I don't think you can with the current application manager - I belive it's planned, tho | 11:22 |
| timeless | oil: canola adds multiple repositories | 11:23 |
| keesj | Jaffa: I registered a project on tuxfamily for a mud repository | 11:23 |
| oil | thanks. I'll check how they did it | 11:24 |
| keesj | I want to create a "read" deb repository with good stats etc | 11:24 |
| oil | [install] | 11:24 |
| oil | repo_name = Canola | 11:24 |
| oil | repo_deb = deb http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/repository-beta2/770 mistral user | 11:24 |
| oil | repo_deb_3 = deb http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/repository-beta2/bora bora user | 11:24 |
| oil | package = canola | 11:24 |
| oil | hm.. there is only 1 repository on canola | 11:24 |
| oil | for bora that is | 11:25 |
| timeless | ? | 11:25 |
| timeless | do you mean something like: deb http://blah laag black sheep | 11:25 |
| AD-N770 | bon dia / good morning | 11:26 |
| oil | I mean 2 different sources. so that the both are on different servers | 11:26 |
| timeless | what's wrong w/ my canola example? | 11:26 |
| oil | basically I need to install wget with my little software and wget is not on bora's default sources | 11:27 |
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| oil | timeless: in canola there is one source for 770 and one for 800 | 11:27 |
| timeless | so? | 11:27 |
| _Monkey | so is someone porting cheese to maemo.... | 11:27 |
| * timeless doesn't think the application manager knows the difference | 11:27 | |
| timeless | you're reading too much into things | 11:27 |
| timeless | _monkey forget so | 11:28 |
| _Monkey | timeless: I forgot so | 11:28 |
| timeless | _monkey so is <reply> | 11:28 |
| _Monkey | OK, timeless. | 11:28 |
| pupnik | does that <reply> tag supress monkey's learning? | 11:29 |
| florian | good morning | 11:30 |
| pupnik | hi | 11:31 |
| pupnik | so? | 11:31 |
| pupnik | nice | 11:31 |
| timeless | not technically | 11:33 |
| timeless | it suppresses its response | 11:33 |
| timeless | _monkey literal so | 11:33 |
| _Monkey | timeless: so =is= <reply> | 11:33 |
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| timeless | you can't learn/teach when there's already something there | 11:33 |
| timeless | _monkey so is \what | 11:33 |
| _Monkey | ...but so is <reply>... | 11:33 |
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| saaib | howdy | 11:35 |
| _Monkey | niihau, saaib | 11:35 |
| pupnik | i like being able to tell monkey what i'm doing (or not doing etc) so ppl can ask | 11:35 |
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| timeless | _monkey i am also cleaning house | 11:35 |
| _Monkey | okay, timeless. | 11:35 |
| timeless | _monkey who am i? | 11:35 |
| _Monkey | i think timeless is a browser developer working for nokia on the maemo browser (microb). also a mozilla contributor or cleaning house | 11:35 |
| konttori | Hey, any ideas on why ukmp running mp3 gstreamer crashes if pidgin makes a sound in the system? | 11:36 |
| konttori | Apparently they both try to access dsp or something, but is there way to avoid conflict? | 11:36 |
| saaib | esd | 11:36 |
| saaib | isn't using esd? | 11:36 |
| konttori | gstream call. | 11:37 |
| saaib | I'm having problem adding my WAP into the 770. I previously configured an open spot successfully. | 11:37 |
| whaq | is microb the one using mozilla's engine? | 11:37 |
| saaib | If I try to discover the AP doesn't show up | 11:38 |
| saaib | and this is the same AP i use for this (IRC) connection | 11:38 |
| timeless | _monkey microb? | 11:38 |
| _Monkey | microb is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007) | 11:38 |
| whaq | gecko | 11:38 |
| whaq | thanks | 11:38 |
| timeless | monkey timeless =~ s/r or cleaning house/r/ | 11:39 |
| timeless | _monkey timeless =~ s/r or cleaning house/r/ | 11:39 |
| _Monkey | OK, timeless | 11:39 |
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| timeless | so um | 11:42 |
| timeless | what is internettablettalk, and why/how do i use it to find people complaining about my software? | 11:43 |
| timeless | The following errors occurred with your search: | 11:43 |
| timeless | 1. The string you entered for the image verification did not match what was displayed. | 11:43 |
| konttori | timeless: Are you serious? It's the web site that hosts most active user forums for n800 / 770 users | 11:46 |
| konttori | www.internettablettalk.com | 11:46 |
| timeless | konttori: half serious | 11:46 |
| konttori | you can search for mentioning of your sotftware there and or create a new discussion around them. | 11:46 |
| pupnik | are you saying the search is broken? | 11:46 |
| timeless | given that i don't want to wade through millions of posts | 11:46 |
| konttori | At least for me it has worked really well | 11:47 |
| timeless | pupnik: well, yes | 11:47 |
| konttori | well, there is a search | 11:47 |
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| timeless | first, why do i have to enter a captcha to search | 11:47 |
| konttori | also, once you have a discussion, you can just subscribe to it and new posts in that discussion will be sent to you via emaill | 11:47 |
| rwhitby | no bot searching allowed :-) | 11:47 |
| timeless | second, why does a search for 'microb' lead me to a random rant where the page it returned doesn't have the word | 11:47 |
| timeless | i'm sure it's burried 5 pages into the thread | 11:47 |
| timeless | but i don't intend to read 5 pages just to find the word | 11:48 |
| timeless | that defeats the point of a *Search* feature | 11:48 |
| rwhitby | timeless: I say just ignore any user comments that aren't made on the official microb support page. | 11:48 |
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| syntux | any developer alive? | 11:48 |
| timeless | rwhitby: ok, this is going to sound really stupid | 11:48 |
| timeless | but which page is that:? :) | 11:48 |
| konttori | Are you looking for the new gecko browser discussion? | 11:49 |
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| timeless | konttori: i'm looking for "anywhere" that people might have mentioned bugs in the new browser | 11:49 |
| konttori | ok, well they have one discussion around that | 11:49 |
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| rwhitby | timeless: the one listed under "How can I download and give feedback?" on http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/ | 11:50 |
| timeless | url? | 11:50 |
| timeless | rwhitby++ | 11:50 |
| rwhitby | :-) | 11:50 |
| * timeless wonders if _monkey does karma | 11:51 | |
| rwhitby | shouldn't be too many comments there .... | 11:51 |
| timeless | rwhitby: the smile is because i wrote that article | 11:51 |
| timeless | and that's precisely where i want bugs | 11:51 |
| pupnik | searching for microb gives several interesting error reports on ITT | 11:51 |
| pupnik | ah | 11:51 |
| timeless | any other place is something i don't read automatically | 11:51 |
| konttori | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7805 | 11:52 |
| rwhitby | timeless: the fact you wrote it is exactly why I pointed out the irony of that paragraph :-) | 11:52 |
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| timeless | rwhitby: the problem is that there might be other pages that people might find | 11:52 |
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| timeless | e.g. for all i know there's a page on www.maemo.org or something | 11:52 |
| konttori | 238 comments on that thread. | 11:52 |
| timeless | or worse, http://garage.maemo.org/ | 11:52 |
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| * timeless hasn't managed to kill all the garage bits | 11:53 | |
| * timeless goes off to kill a few more | 11:53 | |
| rwhitby | timeless: ah, so you actually are looking for comments, not looking for excuses not to read comments. My mistake :-) | 11:53 |
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| lardman | morning all | 11:53 |
| timeless | rwhitby: i'm looking for bugs | 11:53 |
| timeless | i'd rather not read commments | 11:53 |
| timeless | i don't care if people like my product | 11:54 |
| timeless | i want to know what needs to be fixed | 11:54 |
| rwhitby | if it's not in the bugtracker, then it's not a bug :-) | 11:54 |
| konttori | I recommend using internettablettalk forums if you want to have dialogue with the users | 11:54 |
| * timeless doesn't want dialogue :) | 11:55 | |
| konttori | If you want just bug reports, good luck with that one, but not that many people are willing to take the time to report bugs in a formal way | 11:55 |
| konttori | well, then just stick with the bug reports | 11:55 |
| konttori | Looks like people are looking for changelogs: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7805&page=23 | 11:58 |
| timeless | my next blog is basically a changelog | 11:58 |
| konttori | timeless: is there a changelog for the latest microb release? | 11:58 |
| timeless | and it includes links to the actual changelog files | 11:58 |
| rwhitby | timeless: has the keyboard-fixed-release happened yet> | 11:59 |
| rwhitby | ? | 11:59 |
| timeless | rwhitby: we just pushed it to a testing repo | 11:59 |
| * timeless goes to find out where that is | 11:59 | |
| konttori | GBTV 208 episode is raving about n800 + navicore | 12:01 |
| timeless | hey, he can't find it :) | 12:01 |
| konttori | I don't think that's surprising as he's not the developer, so he's probably not that interested in reading the discussion in such a detail (just a guess). | 12:02 |
| timeless | err | 12:02 |
| timeless | sorry | 12:02 |
| timeless | he=the guy here who pushed the packages to some stage | 12:02 |
| konttori | Ahh.... sorry. my bad | 12:02 |
| timeless | personally, i don't think you guys will want the debian changelog files | 12:02 |
| timeless | nah, that was my fault, i was ambiguous | 12:02 |
| timeless | anyway, give me a few secs | 12:03 |
| timeless | ok, we think we found the staging repo | 12:03 |
| konttori | I don't think either. I think people want a list of things that have been fixed / improved / added. | 12:03 |
| * timeless nods | 12:03 | |
| konttori | A simple one page list (max) of things that have been changed | 12:03 |
| timeless | ok, #microb, i'll pass out a couple of urls there shortly | 12:03 |
| pupnik | is there a url i/we should give people for bug reports and discussion? | 12:04 |
| pupnik | (for microb) | 12:04 |
| timeless | yes | 12:04 |
| pupnik | what is it? | 12:04 |
| timeless | the one rwhitby pointed to had the right one | 12:04 |
| pupnik | ok | 12:04 |
| timeless | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/1/ | 12:05 |
| timeless | "How can I send feedback" | 12:05 |
| timeless | actually | 12:05 |
| timeless | hold on | 12:05 |
| timeless | that's not the link i was looking for | 12:05 |
| * timeless grumbles | 12:05 | |
| timeless | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/2/ | 12:05 |
| timeless | How can I help | 12:06 |
| timeless | at the bottom | 12:06 |
| timeless | 1/2 | 12:06 |
| konttori | perhaps the default home screen could have a link to the report a bug screen | 12:07 |
| konttori | the default home page I meant | 12:07 |
| pupnik | ok i will share this url | 12:07 |
| pupnik | wow ... great project timeless | 12:08 |
| pupnik | the news/2 page is a good overview | 12:08 |
| pupnik | from news/1 there is missing a download link | 12:10 |
| pupnik | "How can I download and give feedback? | 12:10 |
| pupnik | Feedback is very helpful for the ongoing development and testing work. The application is ready for end users: just install the browser engine in one-click and start using it! " | 12:10 |
| timeless | heh | 12:11 |
| timeless | yeah, i'll fix that :) | 12:11 |
| timeless | well, hrm, | 12:11 |
| * timeless wonders "how" to fix that | 12:12 | |
| timeless | oh yeah | 12:12 |
| lardman | Are the hooks to the Flash9 library in the engine or via the interface? | 12:12 |
| timeless | ok, i'll make one-click a link | 12:12 |
| timeless | it's almost standard npapi | 12:12 |
| timeless | in theory firefox or opera for the device could use the same flash9 plugin | 12:12 |
| lardman | oh right | 12:12 |
| lardman | I was thinking of the people who were saying flash would be cool as an interface for their apps (rather than browsers) | 12:13 |
| pupnik | unique311 made a collection of 20MB of flash games, with an index .html - interesting to see what can be done with flash on the tablets | 12:14 |
| timeless | ui designers here use flash for mockups and sometimes testing | 12:15 |
| pupnik | makes sense, i've seen things done very fast/conveniently with flash | 12:15 |
| lardman | Anyone happen to know whether the Bluetooth chip can be driven directly from the DSP? | 12:16 |
| lardman | Sorry about my slight change of topic | 12:17 |
| * pupnik thinks microb might be reason enough to go to 2007he | 12:19 | |
| pupnik | no idea lardman | 12:19 |
| lardman | hmm, I imagine it'll need a driver = avs_kernel recompile | 12:20 |
| lardman | I had the impression that Nokia were working on being able to access bluetooth from the dsp directly, I wonder what I read to make me think that...? | 12:20 |
| timeless | http://repository.maemo.org/microb/ | 12:20 |
| timeless | EEP | 12:20 |
| * timeless cries | 12:20 | |
| timeless | please don't add that permanently | 12:21 |
| pupnik | lardman, have you been able to get anything running on the DSP? | 12:23 |
| lardman | pupnik: Yep, the G.711 mu-law encoder appears to work ok | 12:23 |
| timeless | pupnik, #microb? | 12:23 |
| pupnik | timeless: i do not understand your question | 12:24 |
| * lardman is thinking of a gstreamer SBC sink | 12:24 | |
| pupnik | the ogg sink would be most useful to me, but i think i mentioned that already | 12:24 |
| lardman | I have a load of code, I need to check and see if I can release it | 12:25 |
| pupnik | yeah examples would be great | 12:25 |
| lardman | Ah, this is ogg decoder code that I was sent... | 12:25 |
| lardman | But still we currently have no way of accessing the audio codec | 12:26 |
| pupnik | due to missing kernel headers? | 12:26 |
| lardman | and I wonder whether the link between the ARM & DSP can handle the compressed stream in and raw data out | 12:26 |
| lardman | avs_kernel headers, yes | 12:26 |
| kulve | lardman: compressed stream? | 12:27 |
| pupnik | should be no more difficult than mp3 decoding | 12:27 |
| lardman | kulve: vorbis -> DSP | 12:27 |
| kulve | lardman: isn't it just "data". The link doesn't care what you sen.. | 12:27 |
| kulve | t | 12:27 |
| lardman | kulve: Yes, it's the volume of data and timings I was wondering about | 12:27 |
| lardman | pupnik: For the input to the DSP yes, but without being able to access the audio codec from the DSP side, we must send the decompressed data back to the ARM side to output it | 12:28 |
| pupnik | ok i understand | 12:28 |
| pupnik | if nokia should be helping any 3rd party developer i nominate lardman | 12:29 |
| lardman | ah-ha, http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html -> BT headset support | 12:29 |
| lardman | that's why I thought they would implement SBC & dsp-side bluetooth access | 12:30 |
| lardman | pupnik: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1592, I think they are thinking about how to help us, just without giving away too many secrets, etc. | 12:31 |
| lardman | which is understandable | 12:31 |
| pupnik | yes | 12:32 |
| pupnik | someone like you who has learned how to get things running on DSP should be able to get access with a NDA | 12:32 |
| timeless | note that the roadmap is about as noncommital as possible | 12:33 |
| timeless | and usually developers for things like that won't want to be subject to an nda | 12:33 |
| lardman | timeless: Yes, I wasn't counting on it, just that I also want to achieve that end, so perhaps it will help me | 12:33 |
| timeless | it makes their coding life painful | 12:33 |
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| lardman | I don't know whether it could be written under an NDA unless I start the code from scratch anyway, and I do have a day job | 12:34 |
| pupnik | so an open source implementation might disclose some nda info? | 12:34 |
| lardman | it would show the functions and how to call them, so yes I reckon that would breech an NDA | 12:35 |
| timeless | i can't figure out how to make an nda useful | 12:35 |
| kulve | lardman: btw. I tried the instructions about the g711 with dspgateway 3.3.1. It did work, almost. | 12:35 |
| lardman | to write an abstraction layer would be possible | 12:35 |
| lardman | but really you wouldn't gain much by abstracting, as the functions would probably need to be very similar | 12:36 |
| lardman | kulve: Where did it break? | 12:36 |
| kulve | I would guess, that if there would be ogg/speex dsp codec that would pass the decoded raw audio back to ARM side, then there would be more solid demand for the DSP/EAP_* stuff.. | 12:37 |
| kulve | lardman: the dsp output had extra data appended to the output compared to the arm side output | 12:38 |
| kulve | until that point they were identical | 12:38 |
| lardman | kulve: True, I need to do some testing to work out what limits we have on data rate and quantity | 12:38 |
| lardman | kulve: That may be true for me too, I didn't look very far into the data stream (only had a hexeditor) | 12:38 |
| lardman | kulve: There's a slight issue in the way I implemented the code, as the char is 16bit on the DSP side, I passed back a char array to the ARM and OR'd together every two 16bit chars on the DSP side | 12:39 |
| lardman | kulve: and I forgot to handle any trailing single char (i.e. off number of words input) | 12:40 |
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| lardman | s/off/odd | 12:40 |
| kulve | yeah, well, the point is that it ~works :) I don't really care if the g711 works perfectly.. :) | 12:40 |
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| lardman | yes, that was my goal, get something working tolerably to show a 'useful' example | 12:41 |
| kulve | it would definitely be slower in dsp in any case.. | 12:41 |
| kulve | ..because of the transfer delays | 12:42 |
| lardman | I've not measured what they are | 12:42 |
| lardman | btu if you map memory to pass the data, it may be faster (though perhaps not this algorithm) | 12:42 |
| lardman | that's something I ought to do | 12:42 |
| lardman | Note that Nokia provide a linear2ulaw function in the avs_kernel, so presumably they thought it was worth it | 12:43 |
| kulve | we tested something years ago with omap1510 dev board and it was some milliseconds. Which is pretty much. It's possible that we did something wrong, because I didn't find any reason why it should be so slow | 12:43 |
| lardman | unless it's just to remove load from the ARM-side | 12:43 |
| lardman | kulve: Ah, okay | 12:43 |
| lardman | I guess that if we could do output too, then we might claw back some time and reduce ARM-side load more, to make it worthwhile | 12:44 |
| * lardman is thinking of JPEG decoding/encoding as an interesting DSP project | 12:45 | |
| lardman | Try to use the IMGLIB functions | 12:45 |
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| lardman | http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/Tremor, all ready to go, almost | 13:02 |
| kulve | nice :) | 13:03 |
| lardman | sure is, >8bit char support, and specific Ti stuff to link into DSPLIB | 13:04 |
| * lardman is reading the vorbis spec now to get some idea of what it all does | 13:04 | |
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| timeless | ok | 14:31 |
| timeless | we've announced a newer version of the browser | 14:31 |
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| lardman | timeless: hmm, doesn't like google anymore | 14:39 |
| lardman | oops, user error | 14:40 |
| * lardman goes to look at the bugtracket | 14:41 | |
| Crofton|home | lardman, Koen said you know about the DSp on the OAMP? | 14:42 |
| lardman | Crofton|home: I know a little, yes | 14:42 |
| Crofton|home | one day I need to get it working in OE | 14:42 |
| Crofton|home | get the bridge running and figure out how to get some code on it | 14:43 |
| lardman | Crofton|home: I think that should be reasonably easy, if you're willing to use the Nokia avs_kernel | 14:43 |
| Crofton|home | urg | 14:43 |
| Crofton|home | :) | 14:43 |
| Crofton|home | I was hoping the git kernel is OK | 14:43 |
| lardman | ah sorry, the avs_kernel is what runs on the DSP | 14:43 |
| Crofton|home | ok, well I know where to look | 14:44 |
| lardman | Crofton|home: Would this be better in Angstrom? | 14:44 |
| Crofton|home | do you do much dsp dev? | 14:44 |
| Crofton|home | what be better? | 14:44 |
| lardman | The conversation | 14:44 |
| Crofton|home | I am running on the OMAP starter kit | 14:44 |
| Crofton|home | probably :) | 14:44 |
| lardman | I'm trying to get some useful-ish things running on the DSP, first one is a slightly broken G.711 ulaw encoder | 14:45 |
| Crofton|home | for 770? | 14:45 |
| lardman | n800 | 14:45 |
| Crofton|home | ok | 14:45 |
| Crofton|home | what do you use for DSP tools? | 14:45 |
| Crofton|home | what processor is N800? | 14:45 |
| lardman | the 770 was a problem, it wasn't very happy when I was trying to add tasks, I need to try again and see if it was user-error | 14:45 |
| kulve | n800 is omap2 | 14:46 |
| Crofton|home | 2430 | 14:46 |
| Crofton|home | ok | 14:46 |
| kulve | but the dsp is the same as in 770 and omap1510 | 14:46 |
| lardman | For the dsp tools, look here: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/dspprogramming/ | 14:46 |
| Crofton|home | c55 | 14:46 |
| kulve | I think the cpu is 2420, not 2430? | 14:46 |
| Crofton|home | thanks | 14:46 |
| Crofton|home | ok | 14:46 |
| lardman | 2420 | 14:46 |
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| lardman | Crofton|home: I have a spare 770 lying about, I'm happy to help | 14:47 |
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| kulve | I think learning the dsp stuff can be easily made with the omap1510 | 14:48 |
| kulve | it has the same dsp and works with vanilla omap kernel | 14:48 |
| lardman | Crofton|home: You want sound output on the 770 I imagine? | 14:48 |
| lardman | I seem to remember that didn't work last time I tried a Familiar image | 14:48 |
| Crofton|home | no | 14:48 |
| Crofton|home | We do software radio | 14:49 |
| kulve | the 1510 dev board is good, since it has eth & rs232 (at least the one had that I've played with) | 14:49 |
| lardman | Oh, a real application, cool | 14:49 |
| Crofton|home | data :) | 14:49 |
| Crofton|home | yeah | 14:49 |
| lardman | Crofton|home: I've never build the DSP kernel, it'll be an interesting learning experience ;) | 14:49 |
| Crofton|home | right now I need to finish my thesis, but after that I need to work out things like this | 14:49 |
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| lardman | Crofton|home: Is there a useful Ansgtrom image for the 770? | 14:50 |
| Crofton|home | thanks for the info | 14:50 |
| Crofton|home | lardman, I am not sure | 14:50 |
| Crofton|home | there are builds, but I do not know if they are tested | 14:50 |
| Crofton|home | I should buy a spare | 14:50 |
| lardman | Do you have to use Ansgtrom, could you use the Nokia image and create a task to do what you want? | 14:50 |
| lardman | a dsp-task that is | 14:51 |
| Crofton|home | well, I am working on the OSK | 14:51 |
| Crofton|home | OMAP dev board | 14:51 |
| Crofton|home | IO is hard on 770 | 14:51 |
| lardman | So presumably you have some experience of building the kernel, setting the memory mappings, etc.? | 14:51 |
| Crofton|home | yeah | 14:51 |
| lardman | that's good to know | 14:51 |
| lardman | why do you say IO is hard? | 14:51 |
| Crofton|home | Thanks for the link | 14:52 |
| Crofton|home | well, I need access to fairly high speed A/D convertors | 14:52 |
| lardman | So you're not actually bothered about the 770 per se, just my experience of using a DSP? | 14:53 |
| Crofton|home | exactly :) | 14:53 |
| lardman | All becomes clear :) | 14:53 |
| Crofton|home | although I have a 770, and would like to yhack around with it one day :) | 14:53 |
| lardman | Well, I'm happy to answer any questions I can, and to learn from what you're doing | 14:53 |
| Crofton|home | thanks | 14:53 |
| lardman | and I should probably take a look at Ansgtrom too | 14:53 |
| lardman | np | 14:54 |
| Crofton|home | Im sure I'll be in touch | 14:54 |
| lardman | cool | 14:54 |
| lardman | timeless: Hmm, I still find the browser doesn't like 'right-clicks", I can never get google to open something in another window. I need to see if I can work out why, then post a bug | 14:55 |
| lardman | Time to install a new graphics card, see you later (hopefully) all | 14:57 |
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| timeless | hrm | 15:00 |
| timeless | first i've heard of that | 15:00 |
| timeless | i need to file my rss bugs now that the rss feeds are public :) | 15:00 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: excellent changelog | 15:23 |
| `0660 | where is it? | 15:25 |
| Jaffa | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/4/ | 15:25 |
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| `0660 | thanks | 15:25 |
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| * mgedmin tried to install microb once, but got an error from the package manager and gave up | 15:27 | |
| William001 | Hi, I can't find libwrap0 - portmap and nfs-utils depends on libwrap0 :) | 15:27 |
| William001 | Where can i download it ;) | 15:27 |
| William001 | ? | 15:27 |
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| Jaffa | William001: try apt-get install libwrap0 as root in xterm? | 15:29 |
| William001 | Package libwrap0 is not available, but is referred to by another package. | 15:29 |
| William001 | This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or | 15:29 |
| William001 | is only available from another source | 15:29 |
| William001 | E: Package libwrap0 has no installation candidate | 15:29 |
| whaq | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/09/4real_superman/ | 15:32 |
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| disq | morning | 15:40 |
| _Monkey | aloha | 15:40 |
| matmo | help! Week old 770 with IT2007 Hackers on it for several days then yesterday things started to crawl, CPU at 100%, battery life shot to hell. Tried ssh'ing into it to see what is the problem but obviously it is unresponsive. | 15:41 |
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| Jaffa | matmo: remove all your RS-MMC cards; could be metalayer-craweler | 15:45 |
| matmo | Jaffa: reboot now. What is metalayer-craweler? | 15:46 |
| Jaffa | matmo: it indexes all your media files so that the Media Player can break things down by artist/album/genre etc. rather than relying on you organising your files sensibly | 15:47 |
| matmo | Back up and yes metlayer-crawl is at 92.4%. I have a 2G card but mainly for apps. How can I exclude it from any search, if fact how can I stop searching altogether? Thanks for your help. | 15:48 |
| Jaffa | matmo: search ITT, there's lots of stuff about it there | 15:49 |
| Jaffa | _Monkey: ITT? | 15:49 |
| _Monkey | ITT is http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums | 15:49 |
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| matmo | safe to kill the task for now? | 15:49 |
| Jaffa | I believe so ;) | 15:49 |
| William001 | Jaffa: I found libwrap0, but how do i start portmap and nfs-common services? | 15:51 |
| William001 | :) | 15:51 |
| Jaffa | Same as on any other Debian-style box? | 15:52 |
| William001 | /etc/init.d/portmap start? | 15:57 |
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| William001 | /etc/init.d/portmap start and /etc/init.d/nfs-common works, but i still get: mount: Mounting 192.168.1.12:/home/pub on /media/nfs failed: No such device | 16:02 |
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| pupnik | William001: last i read, a nfs-enabled kernel is necessary. | 16:03 |
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| pupnik | For the 770 at least, and i might be out of date | 16:04 |
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| William001 | How do i install the kernel? :) | 16:04 |
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| pupnik | there are two ways, using the flasher over USB, or the on-device kernel installer (i think by fanoush?) -- i don't have links on-hand | 16:05 |
| pupnik | search nfs kernel on ITT forums, or on maemo wiki | 16:05 |
| pupnik | nfs? | 16:05 |
| _Monkey | well, nfs is so much better | 16:05 |
| pupnik | heheh | 16:05 |
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| pupnik | hi k-s[WORK] | 16:06 |
| pupnik | William001: i'm not up-to-date on the nfs mounting right now, sorry | 16:07 |
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| k-s[WORK] | pupnik: hi | 16:09 |
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| matmo | ok, killed and renamed. Can anyone point me to somewhere to identify running processes? I have about 50 of the buggers. | 16:17 |
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| pupnik | ps command - ps aux or something | 16:18 |
| matmo | sry, I mean like "what is it", eg, sapwood-server, eapd(x3), avahi-daemon, btcond, obexsrv, dsme, etc, etc. | 16:20 |
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| melmoth | how cna i checj if my scratchbox is maemo 3.1 or maemo 3.2 ?? | 16:20 |
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| melmoth | can something with scracthbox maemo3.2 can please tell if 'apt-get install libgtk2.0-0-dbg' works ? | 16:22 |
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| melmoth | ohh, works here :) | 16:23 |
| melmoth | thanks. | 16:23 |
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| pupnik | heh | 16:25 |
| pupnik | matmo: on unix systems i use 'man' to find out what the process/program does - for processes running on tablet i use google | 16:26 |
| matmo | pupnik: yeah I already do that. I was hoping someone may have brought together a page detailing the more common ones. | 16:27 |
| matmo | another q: I have extended vmem to mmc. Will it screw things up if I remove the card while running? | 16:29 |
| Jaffa | matmo: yes, but the system will probably warn you when you open the hatch (and then die horribly if you pull it out) | 16:32 |
| matmo | Jaffa: ok, i guess i will avoid it then, lol | 16:32 |
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| matmo | just spotted the open-box-rox thread, anyone using it here? | 16:33 |
| matmo | argh, never mind, it's just yet another distraction for me | 16:36 |
| matmo | I'm hoping to use Squeak in a practical way on the 770 | 16:37 |
| whaq | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-DqZ8jAmv0 | 16:38 |
| matmo | whaq: seen it, impressive | 16:39 |
| _Monkey | I haven't seen 'it,', matmo | 16:39 |
| whaq | yeah | 16:40 |
| matmo | _Monkey: sry, what? | 16:40 |
| _Monkey | matmo: no idea | 16:40 |
| whaq | very impressed.. from its concept to the smooth implementation.. | 16:40 |
| whaq | _Monkey is a bot | 16:40 |
| matmo | _Monkey: no idea about what? | 16:41 |
| _Monkey | matmo: wish i knew | 16:41 |
| whaq | seen matmo | 16:41 |
| _Monkey | matmo was last seen on #maemo 4 seconds ago, saying: _Monkey: no idea about what? [Fri Aug 10 14:40:41 2007] | 16:41 |
| matmo | arh, ok | 16:41 |
| whaq | usually u need to address him first before he responds, but there are some keywords he'd just perk up to without being called at (such as 'seen') | 16:42 |
| matmo | bot? | 16:42 |
| rwhitby | matmo: a bot is an automated program that people put on IRC to annoy other people | 16:43 |
| rwhitby | (in _Monkey's case at least) | 16:44 |
| rwhitby | some other bots are actually useful. | 16:44 |
| matmo | rwhitby: thanks, I was actually questioning if it is a bot. Otherwise I'm stupid enough to continue the "conversation", lol | 16:45 |
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| matmo | (and I missed whaq's comment) | 16:45 |
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| matmo | typical charging time for the 770 battery? | 16:46 |
| lardman | ~3 hours? | 16:47 |
| lardman | not long anyway | 16:47 |
| William001 | nfs? | 16:47 |
| _Monkey | nfs is so much better | 16:47 |
| Nermal | bah | 16:48 |
| onion | I just released an update to the audio player modplug addon, if anyone is interested | 16:48 |
| Nermal | my n770 still hasn't shipped >:| | 16:48 |
| Nermal | ordered on saturday ffs | 16:48 |
| matmo | lardman: thanks. Thought it was around an hour so I've been stopping at 2 | 16:48 |
| lardman | matmo: It should stop on its own | 16:49 |
| matmo | I had seen reports of charging probs so I was playing safe | 16:50 |
| Jaffa | _Monkey: it is <reply> | 16:50 |
| _Monkey | i already had it that way, Jaffa. | 16:50 |
| onion | Nermal: from where did you order it ? | 16:50 |
| lardman | matmo: News to me, anyway the battery is reasonably cheap | 16:50 |
| Nermal | www.mobilefun.co.uk :| | 16:50 |
| Nermal | they're expecting stock today but said that on wednesday | 16:51 |
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| matmo | good to hear | 16:51 |
| Nermal | it's gone up to 89 quid now, I got it for 75 inc VAT | 16:51 |
| Nermal | :d | 16:51 |
| onion | I ordered a second 770 for my gf from expansys | 16:51 |
| Nermal | aye - they'd sold out by the time I heard of the price reduction | 16:51 |
| Nermal | still got the nav kit for 80 quid though | 16:52 |
| matmo | Nermal: yep, i think they are selling out fast. I got two, intending to sell one... but no way now :-) | 16:52 |
| Nermal | hoping they can get the stock thats all | 16:52 |
| lardman | Nermal: really? where from? | 16:52 |
| onion | funny, they had plenty of stock when I placed my order.. suddenly they where waiting for stock I had to wait a couple of weeks | 16:52 |
| Nermal | don't really want to use ebay | 16:52 |
| Nermal | lardman: I ordered it from www.mobilefun.co.uk - they're 89 quid now | 16:53 |
| lardman | Nermal: I meant the navkit | 16:53 |
| Nermal | ah | 16:53 |
| Nermal | http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=151567 | 16:53 |
| Nermal | 500+ in stock | 16:53 |
| Nermal | :D | 16:53 |
| matmo | onion: they *all* do this | 16:53 |
| Nermal | 2007 edition too | 16:54 |
| Nermal | matmo: aye - gits | 16:54 |
| lardman | cool, thanks | 16:54 |
| Nermal | strange now that nav kit is more than the device ;) | 16:54 |
| matmo | isn't £80 expensive? Couldn't a cheap-ish BT thing work with maemo maps? Me new to 770 so what do i know | 16:55 |
| Nermal | you can get a BT gps module for about 30 quid so you're paying about 50 quid for the navman 2007 software | 16:55 |
| lardman | yes, ~£30 for a GPS, but maemo maps is bitmap based, so I'm not sure how implementing routing would be able to work | 16:56 |
| Nermal | maemo maps you'd have to download the maps yourself and I think some hacking needed for turn by turn - plus you don't get a 3d view | 16:56 |
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| Nermal | so not a bad deal given the res of the 770 screen and the size of it | 16:56 |
| lardman | if you have a cheapish gprs contract then recalcing the route from the web would work | 16:56 |
| Nermal | talking 250 or so quid for a tomtom with the same size screen (but lower res) | 16:57 |
| Nermal | lardman: aye - I could add web and walk to my t-mobile contract for 12 quid a month to get 3gig a month over 3g | 16:57 |
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| lardman | Nermal: In that case perhaps maemo mapper is a better plan, and more fun to add the features you want, etc. | 16:57 |
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| matmo | anyone using samba server on 770? I have it installed but cannot find SWAT | 16:58 |
| Nermal | lardman: true - just depends if you want an out of the box nice gps system or whether you want to be stuck in traffic or in a field wishing you'd coded traffic reports in ;) | 16:58 |
| lardman | yes, but does Navicore do that? | 16:59 |
| Nermal | navicore does traffic reports yah | 16:59 |
| lardman | Really? How? | 16:59 |
| Nermal | I think it uses either the RDS signal that radios use | 16:59 |
| Nermal | or your phones net connection | 16:59 |
| dev | so far mine does only the second | 17:00 |
| Nermal | there was an article a while ago about how its not authenticated so you create a device that will let all gps devices in range know there is a bull fight ahead or something | 17:00 |
| lardman | Must be phone net connection, I was hoping the N800 radio could grab RDS, but it's not the right chip | 17:00 |
| Nermal | ah | 17:00 |
| * Nermal gets bored of refreshing the order page for his 770 | 17:00 | |
| keesj | :p | 17:01 |
| Nermal | what I need is some kind of handy mobile web device so I can check the order status of my 770 wherever I am! | 17:01 |
| lardman | lol | 17:01 |
| Jaffa | Get an N800 ;-) | 17:01 |
| konttori | lol | 17:01 |
| matmo | me just happy I never got a GP2X a few months ago :-) | 17:03 |
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| pupnik | lots of easy projects to work on matmo | 17:05 |
| pupnik | penguin command just needs a few more hours work to finish adapting to 800x480 | 17:05 |
| pupnik | ufo2000 is more complicated, but also can work if it is optimized | 17:06 |
| pupnik | daimonin just needs a page flipper to move to top/bottom of 800x600 screen, or a whole new UI | 17:06 |
| matmo | games? | 17:07 |
| pupnik | snes9x needs to be patched to use esd or some other nokia-compatible sound server | 17:07 |
| pupnik | yeah | 17:07 |
| matmo | my usual linux stuff is battling usb devices for days then hating linux for a few more days, lol | 17:07 |
| pupnik | http://pupnik.de/software.html for works-in-progress and links.html for links to games to port | 17:07 |
| konttori | is the snes emu in a better shape these days? | 17:08 |
| pupnik | yeah well it's easier than i thought and very fun to hack on games | 17:08 |
| matmo | (checking link now) | 17:08 |
| pupnik | no improvements on snes9x. couldn't get aoss wrapper working. no work on drpocketsnes lately | 17:08 |
| konttori | hmm... is the 1.51 the latest? | 17:08 |
| pupnik | yes, but 1.4 is slightly faster - just by a tiny bit | 17:09 |
| matmo | pupnik: impressive, you working on all these? | 17:09 |
| konttori | and the drpocketsnes is not working yet | 17:09 |
| pupnik | also another thing is disabling snes9x scaling - i haven't found where to disable the scaling | 17:09 |
| pupnik | yeah snes9x would be halfways workable on n800 with sound and scaling hacks | 17:10 |
| pupnik | for 770 we really need drpocketsnes or squidgesnes | 17:10 |
| konttori | I hope you'll get the hacks in place | 17:10 |
| konttori | and next nokia device has semi-decent dpad | 17:11 |
| pupnik | yeah that's all we really need. onscreen buttons can suffice for the right hand side | 17:11 |
| matmo | just looking at your acmonitor page, is the 770 usable while charging, I read some where that it would actually be discharging? | 17:12 |
| pupnik | been playtesting for a while and the OS buttons are really not that bad | 17:12 |
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| pupnik | someone on itt forums thought that acmonitor reduced battery life - nobody has reported real tests yet | 17:12 |
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| matmo | he he, penguin command looks good. Not much of a gamer but I'll give it a go when you release. | 17:14 |
| timeless | well, have a good weekend all. feel free to file good bugs :) | 17:14 |
| matmo | timeless: u2 | 17:14 |
| pupnik | cheers timeless - thanks for the work | 17:14 |
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| pupnik | hmm, i have no idea what day it is :) | 17:14 |
| matmo | CCC: Common Coder Condition | 17:15 |
| matmo | as u get older remembering the year is a problem | 17:15 |
| timeless | simple: if i'm leaving before 6pm, it must be friday | 17:16 |
| timeless | (or if i leave at all) | 17:17 |
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| onion | Oh, my other little project, might be interesting for osm/maemo-mapper users: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/User:Onion/Mapper | 17:18 |
| * Nermal peels onion | 17:18 | |
| lardman | I see the words fork, onion makes me cry | 17:19 |
| lardman | why a fork? | 17:19 |
| Nermal | whats OSM ? | 17:20 |
| Nermal | on screen mapping ? | 17:20 |
| lardman | though I do like the looks of the feature list | 17:20 |
| onion | lardman: I didn't like working with the big one-file-only c source | 17:20 |
| onion | Nermal: openstreetmap | 17:20 |
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| Nermal | oh I see | 17:21 |
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| cosmo | onion: looks really good, thanks! | 17:21 |
| onion | and now for a 400km test drive... | 17:21 |
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| lardman | is the data vector based? | 17:22 |
| lardman | so it could be used for routing? | 17:22 |
| onion | yes | 17:22 |
| onion | that's the next feature I'll be working on | 17:22 |
| lardman | cool, and generated from people's gps tracks? So it also contains speed/time data? | 17:22 |
| onion | lardman: well, sort-of.. you trace gpx tracks to make nodes->segments->ways and tag these.. read the openstreetmap page for more information | 17:23 |
| pupnik | here's an idea for an app - warn of too high speed when nearing a curve in automobile | 17:24 |
| Nermal | has planner been ported ? | 17:24 |
| lardman | okay. Sounds pretty cool, I was just wondering if it also had data about average speeds for certain times of day (which is the next step in routing so I've read) | 17:24 |
| Nermal | pupnik: I have a small cube shaped cat for that - if he slides off the dashboard - I'm going too quick | 17:24 |
| lardman | pupnik: might be difficult, need to plug in your vehicle type and driving style | 17:25 |
| pupnik | :) yeah | 17:25 |
| Nermal | lardman: "hurt me plenty" | 17:25 |
| lardman | but if you have that BT CANbus (carman?) connection, it might know for itself.... | 17:26 |
| onion | that would be pretty cool | 17:26 |
| lardman | possibly getting a bit ahead of ourselves mind you :) | 17:27 |
| pupnik | it could learn average speeds for a route - including a distribution curve for danger segments and warn if you are in the top 10% speedwise | 17:27 |
| pupnik | i know :) | 17:27 |
| onion | just to expensive for me right now | 17:27 |
| lardman | Knowing average vehicle speeds at different times of the day would be useful for routing | 17:27 |
| Nermal | yah | 17:27 |
| lardman | routing hmm, rout route, strange language is ours | 17:28 |
| * lardman never writes anymore, spell checker catches it, normally defaulting to US English. Grr | 17:29 | |
| Mikho | yes, english is weird | 17:35 |
| lardman | onion: Anyway, going back to my original question, do you need to fork? | 17:35 |
| onion | lardman: feel free to integrate any changes into maemo-mapper | 17:36 |
| lardman | onion: Seems a shame to split development of two similar applications | 17:36 |
| onion | lardman: well, maemo-mapper is simpler and many of the planned features are targeted for working with OSM | 17:36 |
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| onion | so if you don't need anything fancy then maemo-mapper is probably more right for you | 17:37 |
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| lardman | onion: I think looking at routing algorithms would be interesting, that's why I asked about the vector format | 17:38 |
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| onion | lardman: yes it's vector based | 17:39 |
| lardman | onion: the similarities are things like POI (perhaps), location information (with abstraction), voice output, etc. | 17:39 |
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| onion | well, anyway gotta go.. need to drive a ~400km | 17:40 |
| greygusb | yippie, usb hostmode finally works ... the usb hub was the cause, although its external powered it still draws power from the device. a usb dockingstation works :) | 17:40 |
| lardman | okay, have a nice weekend | 17:40 |
| onion | leave any comments on the talk page | 17:40 |
| greygusb | now the only thing i cant figure out is what i have to do in order to now only get a usb mouse detected but also get it working in the graphical interface. | 17:41 |
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| pupnik | missing the cursor? | 17:42 |
| greygusb | i got the mouse arrow already visible, does anyone know if and where it is possible to configure the graphical interface (X or whatever it is) | 17:42 |
| pupnik | how do you mean | 17:42 |
| pupnik | you mean like configuring a mouse in xorg.conf? | 17:42 |
| greygusb | dmesg tells me it gets usb mouse, hid and so on | 17:42 |
| greygusb | the cursor is already visible, but does not move, iassume i have to tell the x server (if it is one) to also use the mouse | 17:43 |
| pupnik | makes sense - the server is i think called 'xomap' and based off 'kdrive' - maybe those will help you for search terms | 17:43 |
| greygusb | if now i can only assume the ps2 port in the usb docking station i have attached is interfering as its already appearing as usb hid for the n800 | 17:44 |
| greygusb | thanks, i think i once read the n800 x is based on x.org, but quite modified | 17:44 |
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| greygusb | mh, sources i can see, if the config is compiled in then tere still should be chance of getting it running, i just asked if maybe already found a way :) | 17:45 |
| greygusb | thanks | 17:45 |
| Mikho | what is this? Why doesn't the backspace key work on GtkEntry? | 17:47 |
| pupnik | application 'synergy' can steer the mouse, maybe you can see how that does it | 17:47 |
| Mikho | I can type in normally but not delete | 17:47 |
| pupnik | i have seen this problem mentioned before - check ITT forums | 17:48 |
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| greygusb | yes, also an idea | 17:49 |
| bipolar | I guess that the guys working on getting kde working on the n800 have given up on it? anyone know anything about it? | 17:57 |
| Mikho | erm, do I really need to write a custom key handler for backspace and delete? | 17:58 |
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| pupnik | did you search itt forums with keyword 'backspace'? | 18:00 |
| ||cw2 | bipolar: like, a full kde? or QTE? | 18:01 |
| pupnik | someone was doing kde - very large tho | 18:02 |
| Mikho | I can only find xterm backspace issues there | 18:03 |
| ||cw2 | I've installed kubuntu on a 1G CF card in a 200Mhz SoC system with 128M ram, it "worked", but I wouldn't want to use it on a regular basis | 18:03 |
| `0660 | i don't think ubuntu would be much better on a system like that :) | 18:04 |
| ||cw2 | nope, xubuntu does OK though | 18:04 |
| bipolar | ||cw2: full kde | 18:06 |
| ||cw2 | loonies | 18:06 |
| matmo | oskb - how to cursor up/dn? | 18:07 |
| bipolar | ||cw2: maybe to you | 18:07 |
| ||cw2 | bipolar: i've used kde on a systems with limited resources, it is NOT useful. | 18:07 |
| ||cw2 | matmo: the D-pad | 18:08 |
| bipolar | ||cw2: I don't care what you've done... I want to make up my own mind.. thanks | 18:08 |
| erstazi | XFCE is nice on older computers | 18:08 |
| erstazi | or computers with limited resources | 18:08 |
| erstazi | personally, I am not too big about flashy DE | 18:08 |
| matmo | D-pad? | 18:09 |
| bipolar | ||cw2: and I'd apreciate you not calling people like me 'loonies' | 18:09 |
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| * bipolar was already in not the best of moods | 18:09 | |
| ||cw2 | bipolar: ok then, get a P200 with 128M ram and install a KDE based distro on it. you'll see, | 18:09 |
| bipolar | ||cw2: god... I've done it... I don't care. | 18:10 |
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| bipolar | ||cw2: it's not comparable anyway | 18:10 |
| ||cw2 | yes it is, except the p200 has faster ram | 18:10 |
| matmo | D-pad? | 18:10 |
| bipolar | I DONT CARE | 18:10 |
| bipolar | jeez... can I make myself any more clear | 18:10 |
| ||cw2 | i'm not saying you have to care | 18:11 |
| matmo | gong nuts here: htf do I cursor up/dn? | 18:11 |
| ||cw2 | matmo: what exactly is oskb | 18:11 |
| pupnik | dpad arrows, or in vi j and k | 18:11 |
| Fatal | on screen key board | 18:11 |
| matmo | on-screen-keyboard | 18:11 |
| ||cw2 | on the device you use the d-pad as arrow keys, generaly | 18:12 |
| matmo | oh, right, haven't used that thing since day-zero | 18:12 |
| matmo | thanks | 18:12 |
| ||cw2 | i pretty much only use when I want arrow keys | 18:13 |
| ||cw2 | use it^ | 18:13 |
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| matmo | i am using vi, keys for insert/esc (srt for dumb questions) | 18:15 |
| matmo | sry | 18:15 |
| pupnik | i for insert, circle-arrow button for esc | 18:16 |
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| matmo | thks | 18:16 |
| ||cw2 | bipolar: I don't mean to offend, I just call it as I see it. i think putting KDE on a device that does not even come close to the specs that KDE was designed to run on is a futile effort, and I find pursuing futile efforts to be, well, loony. Now, Qtopia on the n800, that would be an interesting project, and would run most KDE based apps as well | 18:16 |
| ||cw2 | Qtopia/QPE | 18:18 |
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| bipolar | ||cw2: I understand... but that was not my question. I simply asked if the guys that had done some work on getting kde running on the n800 had stopped working on it. | 18:18 |
| bipolar | ||cw2: I, too, wan't to see Qtopia or Opie ported to the n800 | 18:18 |
| ||cw2 | lets then hope that if they stopped working on kde, they started on QPE | 18:19 |
| bipolar | but then I hear things like the wifi driver being closed, and the framebuffer driver being non-standard, and start to think that the n800 is simply not worth it. | 18:19 |
| bipolar | In september I'll probbly end up getting an OpenMoko (as long as the wifi plans they have work out) | 18:20 |
| pupnik | n800 does have better performance, newer browser, youtube live instead of first downloading -- but for me i always skip one generation of upgrade | 18:20 |
| bipolar | unless these closed source driver issues can be worked out... then there would be no point to getting the openmoko... I already have a phone. | 18:21 |
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| Jaffa | bipolar: the entirety of the N800 kernel is open source, and is a binary blob for the wlan really that big a deal? | 18:25 |
| bipolar | Jaffa: yes... I can't upgrade the kernel without breaking it, and I can't redistribute it. | 18:25 |
| sparr | not open source != cant redistribute | 18:25 |
| bipolar | It's not like it's just the firmware | 18:25 |
| sparr | and you CAN build new kernels to use old modules, its just a serious pain in the ass | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | Presumably the wifi driver has an open source module component, with a closed source blob. | 18:26 |
| sparr | and what Jaffa said | 18:26 |
| bipolar | sparr: if you can find a part of the license on the kernel module that allows redistrobution, I'd love to see it. Maybe I missed it. | 18:26 |
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| Darksmurf | erstazi many many hours ago you posted a link to a 'all.install' file that had all your deb repos...I tried to DL it but it gives me a 404. Any chance of me getting it from you? | 18:28 |
| pupnik | i think 'oil' was asking how to include multiple repos in one .install file | 18:28 |
| pupnik | oil> how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file? | 18:29 |
| pupnik | oil> how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file? | 18:29 |
| pupnik | <oil> how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file? | 18:29 |
| pupnik | hmm sorry | 18:29 |
| Jaffa | bipolar: presumably you've raised on maemo-dev and/or on Bugzilla exactly what the minimum you'd like is (e.g. a firmware blob and an open source kernel module)? | 18:29 |
| * timelyx still doesn't understand why the canola install file isn't a good example | 18:30 | |
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| erstazi | Darksmurf, yes, but I am not sure how *.install files link in the sources.list... what I think happens is, it only installs the last one | 18:32 |
| timelyx | erstazi: isn't application manager open? | 18:33 |
| erstazi | Darksmurf, thanks for letting me know that I forgot to change my http.conf for mod_rewrite to allow forwarding to the new address which is http://c-wd.net/maemo/all.install | 18:33 |
| erstazi | timeless, the install file calls the application manager | 18:33 |
| erstazi | timelyx, do you got the time to open that all.install in a text editor and tell me if I did it right? | 18:34 |
| timelyx | nope :( | 18:34 |
| erstazi | timelyx, ok no biggie thanks though | 18:34 |
| timelyx | i have <20mins to shave/shower/dress/light candles and run somewhere | 18:34 |
| erstazi | light candles? romantic night eh? | 18:34 |
| timelyx | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine-20070531/source/hildon-application-manager-1.9.12/ | 18:34 |
| timelyx | erstazi: no. i do it every friday | 18:35 |
| erstazi | ah | 18:35 |
| timelyx | anyway, application manager is open | 18:35 |
| timelyx | you can read an old version there | 18:35 |
| erstazi | thank you | 18:35 |
| erstazi | appreciate it much | 18:35 |
| timelyx | i'll probably try to grab a newer sardine some other week | 18:35 |
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| timelyx | i'll also try to remember to fix sardine so that it has svn links to /something/ | 18:35 |
| sparr | enigma on the 770... | 18:37 |
| erstazi | Darksmurf, if that works, tell me | 18:37 |
| erstazi | Darksmurf, its only for the 770 | 18:37 |
| erstazi | err... OS2006 | 18:37 |
| sparr | when i get a 770 build environment put together, im going to try to port enigma | 18:37 |
| bipolar | Jaffa: it's already there and answered: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1584 | 18:38 |
| erstazi | sparr, I would port it for OS2006 but I got a project I want done first | 18:39 |
| erstazi | a Speech to text solution | 18:39 |
| Jaffa | More "picked up", than "answered". Although qgil is pretty clear it's not a priority | 18:40 |
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| sparr | erstazi: its a non-trivial port. first, because it wants libraries we dont have. second, and much more difficult, because it *requires* a mouse. i had to rewrite a lot of the input code to make it work with a dpad for the gp2x, for the 770 I would probably want to make it work with stylus-as-joystick like lxdoom does | 18:42 |
| erstazi | yeah | 18:42 |
| erstazi | maybe borrow from lxdoom? | 18:42 |
| erstazi | if they did it right, and lxdoom is gpl or similar license right? | 18:42 |
| sparr | borrowing lxdoom's system could work... id probably just write it myself though. | 18:43 |
| erstazi | well, more power to you, just my philosophy is if it isn't broke, why fix (make) it? | 18:45 |
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| sparr | well, i dont really like how lxdoom has such a small input space | 18:47 |
| sparr | i havent looked at the source, but that could probably be fixed | 18:48 |
| sparr | also, i happen to be familiar with enigma's input code, and its very... particular about how and when it wants its input events | 18:48 |
| pupnik | i found the mouse control to be incomprehensible on first play | 18:48 |
| sparr | for the gp2x i gave up on driving events at the right times, i ditched the event checker and made it poll the d-pad directly every time it wanted one | 18:49 |
| sparr | pupnik: heh, youre not alone | 18:49 |
| sparr | but for some levels you need/want near infinite speed, and thats virtually impossible with a joystick | 18:49 |
| sparr | with a joystick, dpad, stylus-as-joystick, etc... you have to define some maximum speed | 18:49 |
| pupnik | you can increase sensitivity with the right arrow, yes? | 18:49 |
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| pupnik | well you can initiate motion with a stylus tap (mousedown) and track movement until mouseup afaict | 18:54 |
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| sparr | on the gp2x i made one of the shoulder buttons double the sensitivity, as a toggle | 18:55 |
| sparr | that worked decently | 18:55 |
| erstazi | pupnik, that is true, there are javascript games that do that | 18:55 |
| erstazi | or flash games | 18:55 |
| sparr | but still fails on levels where you need really fast changes in sensitivity, in really odd patterns | 18:55 |
| sparr | tracking movement as the stylus moves is actually not a BAD idea... but you run into interesting cases | 18:55 |
| pupnik | obviously you don't have the same problems with the nokia as you do on gp2x | 18:55 |
| sparr | what should the ball do if you move the stylus across a wall? | 18:55 |
| erstazi | both js and flash games use the mousedown and move/do until mouseup | 18:56 |
| pupnik | it's very cool to have another gp2x porter in the club :) | 18:56 |
| sparr | i wish i still had my gp2x | 18:56 |
| sparr | i miss it dearly | 18:56 |
| pupnik | did you ever see the unoptimized snes9x or pcsx running on the gp2x? | 18:58 |
| pupnik | i'm curious how they fared wrt framerate | 18:59 |
| sparr | i did not | 19:01 |
| sparr | i came in after they started getting optimized | 19:01 |
| pupnik | ok | 19:01 |
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| sparr | what, precisely, does using the flasher utility do? | 19:02 |
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| sparr | if you use the various options without an image, what does it do? can usb host mode be enabled without affecting other things? | 19:03 |
| pupnik | don't know | 19:05 |
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| erstazi | Darksmurf, did that work for you? | 19:07 |
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| matmo | see ya all, thanks for the help | 19:38 |
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| sparr | is mozilla available for the 770 (without itos 2007) or just minimo? | 19:57 |
| pupnik | i don't think stock mozilla will run in a few MB free RAM | 19:58 |
| erstazi | minimo? | 20:00 |
| _Monkey | somebody said minimo was (Mini Mozilla) Web browser, a slimmed down version of mozilla browser aiming resource reduced devices. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/minimo/ | 20:00 |
| erstazi | I tried minimo, it wasn't too bad | 20:00 |
| pupnik | total used free shared buffers | 20:00 |
| pupnik | Mem: 62224 54340 7884 0 1000 | 20:00 |
| Juhaz | I'd assume he meant microb | 20:00 |
| erstazi | Juhaz, no minimo | 20:01 |
| erstazi | Juhaz, if you were referring to me | 20:02 |
| pupnik | that's with no running programs :) wonder how anything runs | 20:02 |
| Juhaz | erstazi, I was referring to sparr | 20:02 |
| erstazi | Juhaz, ah | 20:02 |
| erstazi | I am sure microb could be ported for OS2006 | 20:02 |
| erstazi | scratchbox ftw, it makes me happy | 20:03 |
| pupnik | timeless was just here - should have asked him | 20:03 |
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| erstazi | pupnik, he was leaving when I talked to him | 20:04 |
| pupnik | links2 -g is kind of silly, but it hasn't crashed on me yet and it's very light | 20:04 |
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| erstazi | pupnik, I have used it a few times | 20:07 |
| erstazi | heh | 20:07 |
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| erstazi | very light weight | 20:07 |
| pupnik | with the load-applet-run menu shortcut you can launch it with xkbd for a virtual keyboard | 20:07 |
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| pupnik | with a proper package, hildon wrapper for fullscreen and task-switching it could be decent | 20:08 |
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| pupnik | i haven't been able to see any render quality improvement with subpixel hinting | 20:10 |
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| pupnik | s/hinting/aliasing | 20:10 |
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| pupnik | i do have a microscope here - maybe i could take pictures and see if it does make a difference :) | 20:11 |
| erstazi | heh | 20:11 |
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| zaf | erstazi, hi, what was the url for openssh again? | 20:23 |
| erstazi | openssh? | 20:24 |
| _Monkey | openssh is a FREE version of the SSH connectivity tools that technical users of the Internet rely on. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/openssh/ | 20:24 |
| zaf | thanks :) | 20:24 |
| erstazi | np (: | 20:24 |
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| saaib | morning all | 20:39 |
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| * pupnik is so impressed with Squaresoft's graphic artists | 20:44 | |
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| Darksmurf | erstazi the file downloaded...I don't yet have a device to actually try it on..I wanted to look at the repos. thanks | 20:46 |
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| sameo_ | hi guys, anyone managed to have a 2.6.18 booting on the 770 ? | 21:25 |
| erstazi | Darksmurf, here is the sources.list: http://c-wd.net/maemo/sources.list | 21:30 |
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| erstazi | saaib, with dual boot? | 21:31 |
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| tso | hrmf, i realy need to take a look at the wifi in this house. i get better response using the mobile then i get using the wifi... | 21:37 |
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| erstazi | tso, get access points and make sure your wifi is not being restricted | 21:39 |
| erstazi | do you have cordless 2.4ghz wireless phones? | 21:39 |
| erstazi | and you might need to change the channel on your router | 21:39 |
| tso | there are some dect phones in the house yes. and i have been playing around with the channel setting but outside of the upper 3 (11,12,13 iirc)i dont see much difference... | 21:41 |
| tso | and the upper 3 just refuse to work... | 21:42 |
| erstazi | ah | 21:42 |
| erstazi | I would say access points are well enough | 21:42 |
| erstazi | or broadcasters | 21:43 |
| erstazi | that just relay the signal | 21:43 |
| erstazi | repeaters I mean, blah | 21:43 |
| tso | :) | 21:44 |
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| tso | hell, it may even improve the quality on the laptop | 21:44 |
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| WeeJay | Hello! I am considering purchasing an N800 but from the Nokia website it does not look like it support EAP-TLS for wireless . It seems to only support WEP and WPA-PSK :-( | 21:52 |
| WeeJay | Can someone please confirm this | 21:52 |
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| orakle | no eap-tls | 21:58 |
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| tso | hmm, what happend to that iphome 0.4 port to 770? | 21:59 |
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| William001 | Does anyone know how to get NFS working on Nokia 770? I have search all the day, and i can't find anything useful :-( | 22:00 |
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| mgedmin_ | you used to need a patched kernel, iirc | 22:02 |
| mgedmin_ | I never tried it | 22:02 |
| mgedmin_ | sshfs is enough for my needs | 22:02 |
| tso | using ftp here | 22:02 |
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| Artemisprime | Hllo | 22:05 |
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| William001 | mgedmin_: apt-get install sshfs? :P | 22:06 |
| Artemisprime | Anyone around | 22:06 |
| sparr | pupnik: swap space is your friend | 22:06 |
| Artemisprime | What are ome fav gamess for maemo | 22:07 |
| sparr | ive seen platforms with a lot more free ram than we have on the 770... i think osso/maemo/whatever has too much overhead | 22:07 |
| sparr | Artemisprime: openttd, doom, freeciv, nethack, and the single player puzzle game collection | 22:08 |
| Artemisprime | Thanx sparr | 22:09 |
| William001 | mgedmin_: Where can i download sshfs? | 22:09 |
| zaf | are there any pure sip clients for the 770 other than gizmo? | 22:09 |
| tso | openssh or dropbear server/client i guess. the install required root so therefor i went for maemoftp over on the wip section of the maemo.org wiki | 22:09 |
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| mgedmin_ | William001: yes, apt-get install sshfs on your desktop | 22:11 |
| mgedmin_ | then mount your nokia's filesystem over ssh | 22:11 |
| mgedmin_ | this assumes you have an ssh server on your tablet | 22:11 |
| mgedmin_ | I haven't tried it in the other direction | 22:12 |
| William001 | OK - I'll give it a try - I do it in the other direction :P | 22:13 |
| mgedmin_ | ooh, brave man | 22:13 |
| mgedmin_ | have fun compiling fuse kernel modules :) | 22:13 |
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| William001 | I need to compile it? :P | 22:14 |
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| pupnik | scummvm is what impresses people most who haven't seen games on tablet before in my experience here | 22:15 |
| sparr | scummvm only wins because we don't have the controls for good NES or GB emulation | 22:17 |
| sparr | if the damn thing had TWO buttons on the right side its use for gaming would increase ten fold | 22:17 |
| sparr | hmmmmmmm | 22:18 |
| pupnik | can't disagree there. some people say they wouldn't like that design though | 22:18 |
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| sparr | why?1? | 22:18 |
| erstazi | scummvm? | 22:18 |
| _Monkey | scummvm is a program which allows you to run certain classic graphical point-and-click adventure games, provided you already have their data files. http://770.fs-security.com/scummvm/ | 22:18 |
| erstazi | does that work? | 22:18 |
| sparr | im not talking about shrinking the screen like that picture from the forum | 22:18 |
| sparr | erstazi: yes | 22:19 |
| erstazi | I just added that | 22:19 |
| erstazi | so far trying to add things to _Monkey so its more useful | 22:19 |
| sparr | i think we could fit a few buttons without removing anything | 22:19 |
| sparr | im going to take apart my 770 and see how packed that side is... | 22:19 |
| pupnik | there are disassembly pics | 22:19 |
| sparr | where? | 22:20 |
| pupnik | and there aren't any free lines for more buttons | 22:20 |
| sparr | aha | 22:20 |
| sparr | found em | 22:20 |
| pupnik | and the controller can't handle multiple presses | 22:20 |
| pupnik | only path is bluetooth or usb | 22:20 |
| sparr | :( | 22:21 |
| pupnik | bluetooth gamepad is now 30 euro in germany, but you'd need to make a custom case | 22:22 |
| sparr | usb... | 22:23 |
| _Monkey | usb is working, i've dumped files onto the n800 | 22:23 |
| sparr | _Monkey: forget usb | 22:23 |
| _Monkey | sparr: I forgot usb | 22:23 |
| sparr | a keyboard that docks to the bottom of the 770 would rock... but far too difficult for an amateur to fabricate | 22:24 |
| sparr | a gamepad, on the other hand... THAT i could maybe make | 22:24 |
| sparr | has anyone dremel'd a hole in the silver case so that the stylus can be inserted/removed without opening it a little? im considering that... | 22:25 |
| zaf | sparr, i thought it covered the stylus so that it wouldn't fall out | 22:25 |
| sparr | thats what the little spring clip inside is for | 22:25 |
| sparr | my stylus is held in pretty firmly | 22:25 |
| sparr | and i think i would notice it falling out, anyways | 22:25 |
| sparr | i would only put the hole in the case-open side, so it would still cover the stylus when the case was closed | 22:26 |
| zaf | true | 22:26 |
| William001 | mgedmin_: How do i compile "fuse" :) | 22:26 |
| zaf | i dont see any reason why dremel would have troubles with it though | 22:26 |
| mgedmin_ | William001: I don't know | 22:27 |
| sparr | take your 770. put the case on in the 'open' configuration. now, take the case halfway off. picture a block of plastic filling the gap at the bottom. this block would have a D-pad, an analog joystick, and maybe 4 decent sized buttons. the block would connect to all 3 jacks on the bottom, and pass the power and headphones through. what would you pay for that device? | 22:29 |
| zaf | sparr, depends on if there's a qwerty keyboard in hte middle of all that | 22:29 |
| sparr | there isnt | 22:30 |
| zaf | $0 | 22:30 |
| sparr | i wanted to do the same thing with a keyboard, but building a whole keyboard is way outside my level of skill | 22:30 |
| zaf | hehe | 22:30 |
| sparr | and i cant find anyone that makes an appropriate sized/shaped keyboard to adapt | 22:30 |
| zaf | what about the old 'thumbboards' for palm devices? | 22:31 |
| sparr | http://img170.exs.cx/img170/6265/minikey9jh.jpg | 22:31 |
| sparr | take that, add a clip and a battery... thats my best idea for a keyboard so far | 22:32 |
| zaf | if that thing was bluetooth it would even cooler | 22:32 |
| sparr | all the existing thumbboards i can find are 'wrong' in a bunch of different ways. first, virtually none of them are usb, which means lots of electronics work to make them work | 22:32 |
| sparr | second, most have "special" keys that we would probably not use, and that waste a lot of space. things like email and web dedicated buttons. | 22:33 |
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| pupnik | the thinkouside stowaway keyboard works fine here | 22:34 |
| sparr | way too big | 22:35 |
| sparr | and doesnt hard dock | 22:35 |
| sparr | and uses bluetooth, which is a battery eater | 22:35 |
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| zaf | sparr, that little keyboard works on nokia? | 22:37 |
| gw280 | anyone else finding problems accessing maemo.org? | 22:37 |
| sparr | zaf: it would if you added a battery and the published usb power inserter circuit | 22:37 |
| pupnik | some accounts have trouble logging in | 22:37 |
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| pupnik | two aa rechargeables last about 30 hours in the stowaway for me | 22:38 |
| sparr | bt eats nokia batteries too | 22:38 |
| pupnik | i really haven't had a problem with that - 5-7 hours is enough | 22:38 |
| zaf | http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/games/pid/6997082/a/PS2+Mini-key+Keyboard.htm <-- that thing is it, right? | 22:40 |
| sparr | zaf: yes | 22:41 |
| sparr | other sites have it for as low as $10 | 22:41 |
| sparr | froogle it | 22:41 |
| zaf | but u have to add something else? | 22:41 |
| sparr | yes | 22:41 |
| sparr | power | 22:41 |
| sparr | and you would have to enable usb host on the 770, of course. thats supposedly not hard, but i havent done it yet | 22:42 |
| zaf | and apparently you'd need a mini-usb to regular usb converter? | 22:42 |
| zaf | hmm, one of those little keyboards would be handy in my server room too | 22:44 |
| sparr | bah @ converter | 22:47 |
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| sparr | id cut the cable off and re-cap it with a mini plug | 22:48 |
| sparr | make it much shorter too | 22:48 |
| zaf | yah | 22:48 |
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| sparr | so... | 22:49 |
| sparr | how much would you pay for a converted keyboard? | 22:49 |
| sparr | that keyboard, with a battery compartment, shortened cable with a mini plug | 22:49 |
| zaf | sounds interesting | 22:51 |
| sparr | back to the gamepad idea... psp joystick units are available in bulk for something like $5. | 22:56 |
| sparr | many times have I had an idea for a small 'cottage industry' making handheld accessories | 22:56 |
| sparr | but ive never really had the guts to go through with it | 22:56 |
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| Artemisprime | Hello | 22:58 |
| pupnik | how much does it cost to make an injection mould | 22:58 |
| pupnik | tak | 22:59 |
| Artemisprime | Where does stuff innstall ? | 22:59 |
| Artemisprime | What is the path ? | 22:59 |
| pupnik | several areas, depending on what it is | 22:59 |
| pupnik | binaries are usually in /usr/bin | 23:00 |
| Artemisprime | K | 23:00 |
| Artemisprime | Yes binaries | 23:00 |
| _Monkey | binaries are usually in /usr/bin | 23:00 |
| Artemisprime | Thanx | 23:00 |
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| tso | btw, i found ut what was wrong with my maemo mapper. i was using a older version, 1.3.5 i think. found the proper repository and upgraded to 1.4.7 and it works :) | 23:09 |
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| sparr | pupnik: to MAKE a mold? virtually nothing. | 23:18 |
| sparr | pupnik: time, more than anything else | 23:19 |
| tso | hmm, how does one add a POI in maemo mapper? | 23:19 |
| sparr | no idea | 23:19 |
| pupnik | so what would a run of 200 cost | 23:19 |
| sparr | 200 things-made-with-an-injection-mold? | 23:20 |
| sparr | depends on the scale of the company. i know some model plane hobbyists who would run that for a friend for material cost, a few dollars. | 23:20 |
| sparr | most big manufacturing companies would laugh at anything under 10000 | 23:20 |
| pupnik | i've done fiberglass and epoxy before for a model airplane | 23:21 |
| mgedmin_ | tso: hold down the stylus for a few seconds | 23:22 |
| mgedmin_ | in the popup menu pick Location -> Add POI | 23:22 |
| tso | heh, the one thing i didnt try. i keep forgetting about that menu! | 23:23 |
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| zaf | what would be cool is if i could use my treo's keyboard to type in the nokia | 23:34 |
| tso | hmm, i think the closes you will get is something like that bluetooth frogpad :) | 23:35 |
| erstazi | who uses a bt keyboard on the 770? | 23:36 |
| tso | not me, yet. i want to get hold of one. but they are kinda "expensive" | 23:37 |
| tso | and i have dreamed of testing one of these: http://frogpad.com/ | 23:38 |
| sparr | erstazi: we have one at work for the 770s... and plenty more to use if we want from the macs | 23:41 |
| sparr | http://sparr.homeip.net/maemo/kbmockup.jpg <--- this is powered by four AAA batteries. how much would you pay for it? | 23:41 |
| erstazi | sparr, I was thinking of getting one for some code work, but I don't know, how much did you pay for it? what model is that? | 23:43 |
| sparr | erstazi: its a mockup. i havent made it. just a concept | 23:43 |
| erstazi | ah | 23:43 |
| Fatal | sparr: looks like one would get a cramp, isn't it a wee bit small | 23:43 |
| sparr | its the usb keyboard i linked earlier, plus some spring clips to hold it on, plus battery power for the usb | 23:43 |
| sparr | Fatal: unfortunately the pickings are slim for usb keyboards anywhere near the right size | 23:43 |
| Fatal | imagining holding it and using thumbs to press puts them in a weird position, really strains them | 23:44 |
| pupnik | you'd need something approximately the width of the 770 to hold, wouldn't you? | 23:45 |
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| erstazi | that would be for something on your lap | 23:46 |
| sparr | ive got it zoomed to real scale on my screen, so i can hold the 770 in front of it and try it | 23:46 |
| sparr | i have quite small hands | 23:46 |
| Fatal | having the keyboard below it is still strainful unless you could actually hold it with the keyboard, and not hold the 770 | 23:46 |
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| sparr | with the 770 held with one index finger along each side, other fingers behind it... my thumbs seem to reach more than far enough to use a keyboard like that | 23:47 |
| tso | if one wants to do coding i think a fold out would do best... | 23:47 |
| sparr | Fatal: being able to hold it by the keyboard is plausible... depends on how you attach it to the device | 23:47 |
| tso | but has anyone else noticed problems with the virtual "thumbboard" and editing input boxes that contain paragraph spacing? | 23:48 |
| sparr | i dont anticipate coding on the 770 very often | 23:48 |
| sparr | i want a keyboard for email, IM, typing in URLs | 23:48 |
| Fatal | all I'm saying is, don't concentrate on how it'd look, concentrate what would be actually useful and easy to use w/o putting unnatural strain on your fingers | 23:48 |
| sparr | onscreen keyboard is good for <20 characters, thumbboard for 20-200, fold out for 200+ (arbitrary limits off the top of my head) | 23:49 |
| sparr | Fatal: so, lets say i work it out so you can safely hold it by the keyboard | 23:49 |
| tso | i wonder why they dont allow it to jump to thumb mode when entering passwords... | 23:49 |
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| Fatal | sparr: I'd never pay more than for a BT keyboard, which is what, around $100-$150? | 23:50 |
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| erstazi | Fatal, currently $140 with frogpad | 23:50 |
| erstazi | correction: $150 plus shipping | 23:51 |
| sparr | Fatal: ok, say i aimed more around $30-50 | 23:51 |
| erstazi | sparr, and you are saving money by it being USB | 23:51 |
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| sparr | hmmmm | 23:51 |
| sparr | its thin enough | 23:51 |
| sparr | it might fit inside a half-open case | 23:51 |
| erstazi | you drop bluetooth, then you are saving more money but power consumption goes up | 23:52 |
| sparr | i disagree | 23:52 |
| sparr | usb should not use more power than bt | 23:52 |
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| sparr | not even remotely close | 23:53 |
| erstazi | well, to a point | 23:53 |
| erstazi | BT does have a lot of power consumption | 23:53 |
| erstazi | I forget that wireless does consume a lot | 23:53 |
| erstazi | but it shouldn't be that way | 23:53 |
| sparr | bluetooth is the wrong way to do things like this | 23:54 |
| sparr | zigbee is a FAR better solution for portable input devices | 23:54 |
| sparr | Fatal: picture my keyboard in this configuration (half open case) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70&d=1141844575 | 23:55 |
| erstazi | how about this? http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/ | 23:56 |
| sparr | the kb in the picture is from the OQO, and its a horrible keyboard for many reasons | 23:56 |
| tso | can the 770 even power a device via usb? | 23:56 |
| sparr | erstazi: expensive, and still bluetooth? | 23:56 |
| sparr | tso: no, which is why the kb has to have batteries | 23:56 |
| erstazi | yes | 23:56 |
| erstazi | I don't mind the bt | 23:57 |
| erstazi | just down the road I might want a keybaord | 23:57 |
| erstazi | s/keybaord/keyboard | 23:57 |
| sparr | at this point i am almost certain that i am going to build one thumbboard as i described above, with the small usb board | 23:57 |
| sparr | if only to use for myself | 23:57 |
| tso | that laser keyboard have issues tactile feedback. i have heard even the onscreen keyboard is better to use... | 23:58 |
| sparr | but i think i might try to sell it too | 23:58 |
| sparr | which is why i ask you guys... | 23:59 |
| erstazi | tso, thats what i wondered, it seems that you would need a nice flat surface | 23:59 |
| pupnik | see if you can find spare aluminum covers | 23:59 |
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