IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2007-08-10

glizitchsuper mario bros. 2 works just fine00:00
glizitchw/o sound00:00
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glizitchid say this emu works00:03
glizitchpretty good00:03
glizitchminus the sound00:03
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erstaziglizitch, what emu are you using?00:04
tsoerstazi: that url you gave me just gives me a 40400:05
erstazitso, I am working on porting an update00:05
tsooops, forget it, my bad...00:05
pauliukasIs the 770 using a normal fluorescant backlight or LED?00:05
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tsoi dont think even the N800 uses led...00:07
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sparrif anyone can tell me where might have moved to, i would be most grateful00:09
sparrOR where to find the .xml version of the default .vkb keyboard definitions00:09
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tsook, thats promising. i tried to start maemo mapper. it failed. i hit the application manager thinking about reinstalling it, and i got the nokia logo in my face...00:37
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tsouhoh, i smell a reboot loop. it just sits there displaying the logo and ever so often blinking the screen :(00:38
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||cw2tso: I had something similar happen with mapper recently00:41
||cw2tso: take the battery out for about 30 seconds, fixed it for me00:41
amrwhy does my tablet keep displaying a 'nokia' screen00:41
amrit boots into the homepage00:41
tsoit didnt rebootloop. it just used a very long time shutting down. and then a unusualy long time booting before the load bare was show. still no mapper running tho...00:42
tso||cw2: well see if your suggestion works :)00:43
||cw2worked for me, and good thing too because I was in a canoe on a river00:44
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||cw2used google maps satellite images, was awesome00:45
tsonoted :)00:45
sparrits going to take hours to rewrite the default keyboard from only the xml schema00:45
sparri wish the xml file was available...  its not like its any sort of secret00:45
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tsohmm, looks like nokia plans on standardizing on the microusb port00:46
||cw2FWIW, in non-full screen mode so the screen would dim the battery lasted  nearly 8 hours tracking the whole time00:46
sparrtso: mini-A or mini-B?00:46
erstazisparr, look in ~/.osso00:46
tsosparr: no clue00:46
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sparrdoes ssh into the 770 take longer than it should for anyone else?  20-30 seconds before i get a password prompt00:47
saaibWWOOHHO !!!! aaahh ! AAAH !!! Excited00:47
saaibmy package just arrived!00:47
erstazisaaib, haha00:47
sparrerstazi: not in ~/.osso00:47
saaibI'm going to take a pic from the close package00:47
erstazisparr, I never noticed a problem with ssh doing that00:47
erstazisparr, dropbear or openssh?00:48
tsohmm, didnt fix mapper. i have a feel i messed up the libsqlite or something00:48
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_Monkeyi guess dropbear is a relatively small SSH 2 server and client.
sparrmy guess is that its being launched by inetd (or similar)00:48
erstazisparr, I use openssh00:48
||cw2sparr: that's about right, and ssh'ing into a 586 200Mhz SoC system with 128 meg ram takes just about as long00:48
sparras opposed to running as a daemon00:48
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sparrregarding the keyboard... what im looking for is the xml version of /usr/share/keyboards/en_US.vkb00:48
sparror any other keyboard there00:48
||cw2tso: try starting again, mine took a couple times as well, it did eventually start and my track was intact00:49
milhouseuse public/private keys... only takes a couple of seconds to login and i don't even have to enter a password. :)00:49
erstaziI would suppose it would be in the %gconf.conf00:49
sparrmilhouse: openssh?00:49
_Monkeyopenssh is a FREE version of the SSH connectivity tools that technical users of the Internet rely on.
milhousesparr: yes i use openssh00:49
milhousethanks _monkey00:49
tsohmm, i wonder. can one install gaim and pidgin side by side?00:49
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erstazisparr, I use openssh and if that link that I gave monkey doesn't work, tell me00:49
milhousetso - why would you want to? pidgin is gaim00:50
sparrwell, except for the slow login, dropbear seems to work fine, and its a lot smaller (storage and memory) than openssh...  i might stick with it00:50
erstazipidgin is the name for gaim00:50
tsojust for the hell of it :P00:50
erstazis/the name/the new name00:50
tsobtw, i wished they dropped the input area and just went straight for the virtual keyboard on the push of a onscreen button or something...00:50
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tsoas in the thumbs keyboard. btw, i would love for it to be the default keyboard. even if it as some issues with input field on websites00:51
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tsohrmf, i have a feel that me messing around with gpe 2.8 somehow messed up libsqlite :(00:54
tsoheh, trying to run maemo mapper using xterm gave me a seg fault...00:55
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zafhmm, what's the latest flash available on 770, and how do i get it?01:03
||cw2zaf: the one that comes with it is 6, there is no upgrade01:03
zafflashplayer, sorry01:03
cbx33i guess that card is just knackered01:04
||cw2deep subject01:04
cbx33works fine on pc01:04
cbx33but massive IO errors on the n80001:04
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cbx33nn all01:04
cbx33thanks for the help01:04
cbx33i'll get to the bottom of this01:05
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pauliukasHey guys. Anyone still alive?01:34
pauliukasI can't get SSL in browsers to work/01:34
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* saaib has now some naughty pics with his new 77001:41
* pauliukas too01:41
saaibnice :)01:42
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pauliukasbad quality, but those are quicksnapshots.01:43
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syntuxOk, I got scratchbox installed and added new user with sbin/sbox_newuser but still getting permission denied when trying to run ./login;01:46
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Mikhoshould you add yourself to the sbox group?02:03
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solmumahaany linux users that wanted upnp transcoding awake?02:30
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solmumahathere's support now in mediatomb svn02:30
solmumahayou can use external programs to do transcoding02:31
solmumahalike 770-encode.pl02:31
solmumahabut i didn't get it working02:31
solmumahaworks fine with xbmc, but not with n800's media player or media streamer02:32
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solmumahaso if anyone is interested on testing, please do and report02:32
notpeteri have a 770...let me see if I can get mediatomb up and running02:33
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solmumahathere's no need to actually install it02:34
solmumahayou can just compile and run02:34
solmumahai can give you a config for it02:34
solmumahaor just add this to your config:
solmumahacould be a format thing too02:39
solmumahabut n800 plays it if i transcode it and transfer it to device or serve it via mediatomb without transcoding02:39
solmumahaand developer didn't see anything weird in my dumps02:40
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notpetersolmumaha: you still around?03:00
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Hyperion2010is there anywhere that the lastest firmware version is listed for the n800?04:03
_Monkeyit has been said that is ok here, but is down (and has been down for several hours)04:06
sparropera on my 770 isnt displaying any images...  help?04:06
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notpetersparr: Check this....view->Show Images->Always04:08
sparrheh, is canola going to have a problem with my upnp media server indexing a few thousand videos?  :)04:09
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shackanargh, so much porn ????04:10
sparrnot sure if gmediaserver was actually serving anything04:12
sparrgonna try running it with different options04:12
sparrany canola users?  how does canola 'find' my media server?04:16
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NeoStriderhello there?04:40
sumasparrw: , that is a funny player04:40
NeoStriderpupnik: are you there?04:40
sumasparrw:  that is a funny player, (canola) they did not even play from my samba share04:40
sumapupnik went to meet his girlfriend04:42
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sparrsuma: well, its not supposed to play from samba04:42
sparrgnumeric installs 8MB worth of worthless locale data...04:42
sumasparrw: once i mount then it should read like normal file04:42
sumakernel did not make any differentiation between local and remote file04:43
sumasparrw: i installed smb browser to mount the samba location04:43
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sparrsuma: interesting04:45
sparrsuma: and added the mount location to canola's library list?04:45
sumathe gunny media streamer is also not playing the next song from upnp media server04:45
sumasparrw: yes, the web interface is really funny, i changed the ip address and want to configure from my PC, it did not work04:45
sumai rebotted too04:46
sumaMedia Streamer from Nokia is not playing the second song from the upnp media server04:48
sparrtheres an option in the config that allows remote config, did you turn that on?04:48
sumasparrw: yes i did04:48
sumait works for you ?04:48
sparrnot sure...04:48
sparrlet me try04:48
sumawhat is the maemo 3.1 pool for ?04:48
sumait is for nokia 800 ?04:48
sparrno idea, im on 77004:49
sparrwith 2.204:49
sumai'm also on 77004:49
sumabut what is 3.1 for ?04:50
sumarwhitby: thanks04:50
sparrrebooting to try remote canola config04:50
sparrsuma: remote config does not work for me04:53
sumasparrw: that is a funny player04:53
sumai don't what works on that04:53
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pupnikif the endgaget 'possible n800 successor' with the slide-out keyboard design was the real thing, would you buy it?05:47
pupniks/was/were :)05:48
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pauliukasI got a good deal on the 770 and I'm loving it.05:48
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sparra hardware keyboard is nice, but not uber important with a touch screen06:02
sparrnow, a device like the gp2x with no touchscreen...  THAT needs a keyboard06:02
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unique311paint program that compiled for the N800...mypaint is really nice, so is rgbpaint06:10
pauliukaslket's see06:11
unique311rgbpaint has its issues, but look fixable to the knowing.06:12
unique311mypaint, i love the brushes, and also how you can make your own brushes.06:12
unique311pressure sensitivity rocks on it also.06:13
pauliukasn800 has pressure sensitivity?06:13
pupnik_i haven't seen an app that uses it06:13
unique311i guess it works with mypaint06:13
pauliukasHow about 77006:13
_Monkeyi heard 770 was so cheap right now.  is there any reason to go for the 800 instead if all i'm doing is running the web browser only?06:13
unique311look at the video06:13
unique311not sure how its going to fair with the 77006:14
unique311had to take out a line for it to stop crashing on the n80006:14
pauliukaserstazi: Yes?06:14
erstaziso when I actually get around to porting pocketsphinx, who wants to test it?06:14
pauliukasI still didn't get OpenSSH on it, LOL. Can't find it.06:14
pauliukasWhat's that?06:14
_Monkeyi heard openssh was a FREE version of the SSH connectivity tools that technical users of the Internet rely on.
erstazipauliukas, ^^06:15
pauliukasright... same error.06:15
pauliukasGives me a "Not found?" dialog06:15
milhousepaul - open xterm, sudo gainroot, apt-get install ssh06:15
erstazipocketsphinx is an app that allows you to have speech to text06:15
erstaziand I need to be able to understand how to change the input method06:15
pauliukasLemme boot it up and try.06:15
pauliukasBut why would I want OpenSSH instead of dropbear?06:16
milhouseinstall ssh at the command line... you can install it via red pill mode but if you've got root access and xterm installed it's easier via the command line06:16
erstaziwhich is somewhere under ~/.osso06:16
erstazipauliukas, I prefer openssh06:16
pauliukasIsn't OpenSSH bigger and takes more RAM>06:16
pauliukasWell, why exactly?06:16
erstazieasier to config06:16
erstaziless hassle06:16
erstazimore space absorbed06:16
pauliukasAnd can I control if it starts at boot or no06:16
erstazipauliukas, it starts automatically if you boot06:16
pauliukasWhat if I don't want it to.06:17
pauliukasTo give more RAM to other apps.06:17
pauliukasI bet you it's like 5MB RAM or so.06:17
erstaziI don't know06:17
milhousepauliukas: fair question... i prefer ssh as it's a single install (i believe dropbear has a server and a seperate client component), ssh is "standardised" (openssh on my n800/770 is the same as open ssh on my Ubuntu server) and frankly ssh just works. it also has scp built in (for file transfer)06:17
unique311pupnik_, mypaint use pressure sensitivity...and it works on the N80006:17
pupnik_mypaint looks a bit slower than mtpaint/rgbpaint, but it's doing alpha blended brushes06:18
sparrcan anyone here run maemochron?  what python lib has the 'parsers' module?06:18
unique311again, rgbpaint is minimal...06:18
unique311i was having issues wrtting sideways with the stylus06:19
erstazimilhouse typed it correct06:19
unique311on mypaint.06:19
erstaziI have it on ubuntu and it works great06:19
unique311but its not slow at all06:19
unique311some of the brushes suck..06:19
pauliukasAnd how do I start it for the first time?06:19
pauliukasI'm also getting a few errors on the terminal... But I'm assuming that's normal06:19
unique311but you can delete the brushes you don't need and make new ones..06:19
pupnik_great vid thanks06:19
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pauliukasSo what's the username and login to it?06:21
pauliukasor do I just create one?06:21
pupnik_root user password is 'rootme'  normal user name is 'user'06:22
pauliukasI just changed the root pass. Is that bad?06:22
pauliukasOh, gotcha.06:22
_Monkeyi think gotcha is you have to patch the system fonts06:23
pauliukasShould I make pass for user aswell?06:23
pupnik_i do - doesn't break anything06:23
pauliukasI mean... you know.06:23
pauliukasIf I'm on a public network.06:24
pauliukasDon't want anyone bruteforcing my SSH06:24
erstazipasswd user06:24
erstazido it06:24
erstazipasswd root06:24
erstazichange it06:24
_Monkeyerstazi: that doesn't look right06:24
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erstaziI quited monkey06:24
sparris there a stylus calibration tool that lets you move the cursor relative to the stylus in realtime?06:24
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erstazisparr, I am satisfied, they did a great job for what it is costing06:25
erstazipauliukas, then with openssh, you can do it06:25
sparrerstazi: so is that a no?06:25
pauliukasI know... but I meant... eh, nevermind.06:25
erstazisparr, there are third party ones, I never used them06:26
erstaziI am a bit tipsy so don't mind me06:26
pauliukasoh geez. I think I lost your repos link, erstazi06:26
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erstaziI need to move all that maemo stuff to its own directory06:27
erstaziI shall do it now06:27
sparrerstazi: my problem is that in a calibration tool im too anal, my behavior there never matches my behavior in a game correctly06:27
erstazisparr, for an n800?06:27
erstazior 770?06:29
_Monkey770 is so cheap right now.  is there any reason to go for the 800 instead if all i'm doing is running the web browser only?06:29
erstazi_Monkey, forget 77006:29
_Monkeyerstazi: I forgot 77006:29
erstazisparr, I don't play games on mine06:29
sparri do06:29
pauliukasdoes "forget everything" work?06:29
pauliukasAny good games to recommend?06:29
sparropenttd (transport tycoon deluxe)06:29
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pupnik_did you get it from ubuntu?06:31
sparri installed nano-tiny...  im not a nano user, so i dont know if ill miss the features06:31
unique311hold on pupnik_06:31
pauliukaswhich one should I use... yours or erstazi's :-p06:32
pupnik_that airbrush looks like exactly what i want for sketching06:32
sparrthey should be mostly the same06:32
sparrorder notwithstanding06:33
sparrdoom for the 770 is fun, but not exactly a great game.  descent might be better, i gotta get data files to try it06:33
sparri miss my gp2x  :(06:33
unique311pupnik_, gtkmydrawwidget.c might need to remove line 202, got crashes from that.06:33
erstazipauliukas, honestly, they should be the same06:33
sparrthe 770 is far superior for non-gaming...  but the gp2x is hands down the best gaming handheld i ever owned06:33
unique311not sure why06:33
pupnik_sparr we gotta port all that gp2x goodness06:33
sparrno chance06:33
pupnik_ok thanks unique31106:33
sparrtoo different06:33
sparrtouch screen vs not06:34
erstaziI want to port some liquor in my belly06:34
sparr12 input buttons vs ~506:34
erstaziJack daniels...06:34
pupnik_sparr i hope to prove you wrong someday06:34
pupnik_but it's not easy :)06:35
sparri did port enigma to the gp2x06:35
sparrTHAT would make a fun game on the 77006:35
pupnik_never heard of it06:35
sparrgo install it on your desktop06:35
pupnik_lets get drpocketsnes sparr06:35
sparrbah @ snes.  only good for RPGs, as you said.  and it will be slow as hell06:35
pupnik_snes9x is almost playable - drpocketsnes should be 2x faster06:36
sparri am doubtful06:37
sparrdifferent definitions of "playable"  :)06:37
sparri require sound and 10fps+ minimum06:37
sparron non-trivial games06:37
pupnik_:) i was getting 25+fps on pacman06:37
erstazipacman, never let that touch my 770, my wife will take it and never give it back06:37
sparrif my gp2x hadnt been stolen, i probably wouldnt have bought a 77006:39
erstazigp2x stolen?06:39
sparrwas in a psp case, attached to my belt.  someone cut it off me in a crowd.  i wish i could have seen his face when he opened it and it wasnt a psp06:39
erstaziwhat is a gp2x?06:39
_Monkeya gp2x is probably too weak06:39
unique311pupnik_, did you say pacman?06:39
erstazi_Monkey, forget gp2x06:39
sparrimagine if the 770 was designed for gaming instead of internet  :)06:39
_Monkeyerstazi: I forgot gp2x06:39
sparr_Monkey: botsnack06:39
erstazisparr, aye06:39
pupnik_yeah public domain pacman from zophars runs great06:39
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sparrif anyone needs a console hex editor06:46
sparrthat works06:46
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sparrtscalibrate and pointercall have one glaring deficiency...  they user a linear transformation with no allowance for non-linear correction.  which means with a typical stylus and handheld, its impossible to tap the outer few pixels of the screen because of how the stylus touches the case and screen06:51
sparri hate that06:51
sparrcant hit any pixels less than [stylus_radius] from the edge of the screen06:51
sparrnote to self: get sharper stylus06:53
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pupnik_i tried enigma and the mouse control was hard to figure out06:54
||cw2i've never seen a handheld UI designed in such a way that it was required to tap anything that close to the edge of the screen06:54
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unique311note to self, get better screen protector..07:00
unique311those things suck07:00
sparrpupnik_: the mouse is unfortunately required on some of the quirkier levels.  my gp2x port used a joypad, so those levels were simply unplayable07:00
unique311for the n80007:00
unique311i like the original that came with the device.07:00
sparr||cw2: openttd windows have VERY small close buttons, and they are often on the left edge of the screen.07:00
sparrvery small as in 6 pixels, maybe 807:00
pupnik_i have cursor visible and can tap to the very edge of the screen07:01
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sparrhow do you get the cursor?07:02
sparrand...  tapping the edge of the screen is not impossible...  its just impossible if you precisely calibrate the middle.07:03
pupnik_i ran a script that created iconsBAK07:03
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sparrtscalibrate puts the crosshairs like 3/4 of the way out from the center...  so if your "dead" area of the touchscreen is 4 pixels wide then you can tap the crosshair 3 pixels off in the other direction and gain access to the edge, at the cost of making the whole screen slightly less accurate07:03
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erstaziwho maintains povbot?07:06
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unique311pupnik, that iconsBAK script is my invention...yeah its being used..07:12
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unique311you have to move the contents of lib/python2.3 to python2.507:15
pupniki copied the stuff from /usr/share over07:15
unique311i know07:15
glizitchif it has the power i mean07:15
unique311hold on07:15
sparrglizitch: no07:15
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sparrglizitch: a lot of software depends on libraries that havent been, and probably wont ever be, ported07:15
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glizitchi see07:16
sparrarmel is not a popular target07:16
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unique311pupnik, you need to move the contents of /usr/lib to python 2.5 folder.07:16
glizitchwhy do i hear about ppl07:16
glizitchplaying day of the tentacle07:17
unique311its actually07:17
glizitchand other old games07:17
glizitchhave they been ported ?07:17
sparrscummvm has been ported07:17
sparrscumm was the engine those games ran on07:17
sparrtheres also a NES emulator, so you can play NES games07:17
glizitchsparr: awesome07:17
glizitchi got the nes emu working07:18
glizitchso i want scumm07:18
unique311pupnik, mv -R usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/python2.3   /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/07:18
unique311pupnik, mv -R usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mypaint   /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/mypaint07:18
unique311the second one07:19
_Monkeythe second one is, like, more of a js shell implemented in javascript for use w/ telnet07:19
unique311feck you monkey07:20
erstazi_Monkey, forget the second one07:20
_Monkeyerstazi: I forgot second one07:20
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glizitchfrom where ?07:23
pupnikdebian mirrors07:23
glizitchwhich are where ?07:23
pupnikall over the planet :)07:24
glizitchcan u point me in the right direction07:24
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pupnikheh or can buy it used for 22-28 gbp (30-40 euro?) :007:27
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unique311pupnik, whats the status of mypaint on the 770?07:30
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pupniknot working07:31
unique311get any errors?07:31
pupnikyes the one i pasted - the files weren't where you described07:32
pupnikbut it was helpful, i didn't know about that python directory07:32
unique311so after you corrected the python directory...07:34
unique311it should've worked07:34
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pupnik  Germany outlaws 'hacker tools'08:03
pupniktraceroute has already been removed from one distribution08:03
pupnikThey are deliberately transferring power from the Judicial Branch to the Executive Branch in order to appear "tough" on crime. When it's impractical to enforce a law that is broken by many people, the Executive Branch doesn't enforce it, unless they need an excuse to bust someone they don't like, or to search someone they're suspicious of. This gap between what is commonly enforced and what CAN be enforced, I like to call "The Facade08:03
pupnikAll you need for tyranny is to pass laws that make most people criminals08:04
pupnikthen you have arbitrary power of enforcement08:05
pupnikmaybe this is why the tablets don't have 'ping'08:05
milhouseping is in 4.2007 on n800 :)08:06
pupnikoh noes!08:06
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timelyxerstazi: i was the owner of an infobot on another server. the bot sorta runs w/o me now08:53
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timelyxX-Fade: some days i skip a sleep cycle. when you asked, that night was one of them08:54
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timelyx_Monkey: escapepod?08:55
_Monkeyescapepod is ok08:55
timelyx_Monkey: i heard the 770?08:57
_Monkeytimelyx: i don't know08:57
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timelyx_Monkey: forget escapepod09:00
_Monkeytimelyx: I forgot escapepod09:00
timelyx_Monkey: escapepod is and also a popular flash crasher for microb09:00
_MonkeyOK, timelyx.09:00
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pupniktimelyx: relevance of site? :)09:13
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timelyxpupnik: it was only mentioned because it crashes ;)09:18
pupnikok i thought it was a deliberate browsercrash site09:18
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timelyxApplication Manager is maemo's GUI over apt09:24
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timelyx_Monkey: milhouse's username?09:26
_Monkeymilhouse's username is UBSSuck (erm... a little investment bank i once worked for...)09:26
timelyx_monkey: built-in locale data09:27
_Monkeybuilt-in locale data is taking up 6MB of sparr's base image.  locale data for installed software is eating another 11MB09:27
pupnikis there a correct way to remove locales?09:27
pupnikin debian i use dpkg-reconfigure console-data iirc09:27
pupnikon 770 i just rm'd em09:28
timelyx_Monkey: gomiam09:29
_Monkeygomiam is right... "/join #maemo"  does work :)09:29
timelyx_Monkey artemisprime09:31
_Monkeyit has been said that artemisprime is logged off09:31
timelyx_Monkey: 1mb09:32
_Monkey1mb is plenty09:32
_Monkeyit has been said that timelyx is timelyx's mac, it has scrollback09:32
pupnikhas einstein or einstein2 been spamming you on ITT forums?09:32
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timelyx_Monkey: 77009:39
_Monkey770 is, like, far superior for non-gaming...  but the gp2x is hands down the best gaming handheld i ever owned09:39
timelyx_Monkey Rocketman's n80009:42
_Monkeywell, Rocketman's n800 is too busy streaming videos to chat with atm, so Rocketman is on Rocketman's desktop09:42
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timelyxpupnik: redpill mode? :)09:43
timelyxkulve: _Monkey is in passive mode, which means it learns lots of stupid stuff09:45
timelyxi'm suggesting people consider replacing a number of the more useful keys with something useful09:45
kulvepupnik: yes09:45
kulvevery annoying (even though I got only one mail)09:46
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pupnikok i got two messages... then it is a spammer, not just some retard09:48
pupnikimaredr writes on ITT forums "Just got a N770 for myself after seeing hubby so happy. "  hehehe09:49
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keesjHi mmpplzz10:24
pupniknice comments Milhouse :)10:26
pupnikhi keesj :)10:27
pupnikkeesj, when using synergy on it2006 i can sometimes not type into dialog boxes or xterm - i don't remember this happening with earlier experiments or with it200710:27
pupnikwhen i open a new opera or xterm tab, i can type into it10:27
pupnikvery strange :/10:27
keesjpupnik: on it2006 with xterm I had to restart the xterm after I changed the input method10:29
keesjperhaps this is the same kind of problem10:29
pupnikthat might be it10:29
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JaffaMorning, all10:48
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keesjHi Jaffa10:52
pupnikthese psx RPGs are good :)10:55
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Jaffapupnik: you got a PSX emulator running?10:57
pupnikon pc yes :P10:58
pupnikit will be fun to compare the unoptimized snes9x and pcsx to the optimised versions11:05
oilheeelpp please11:05
oilhow can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file?11:06
pupnikyou mean multiple repositories for one distro11:07
oilI need sw from 2 different sources and both are not on default lists11:08
pupnikcan you add multiple repo_deb = lines?11:08
oilI'll try that, but then it will not go to under the original repository11:09
oiland, no not work11:10
oilhmm. maybe for temporary solution I just copy the original to my repo11:10
pupnikyes, or make two install links :/11:11
pupnikone for dependencies, one for your package11:11
oilbut for me it seems to install only the last one11:11
oilif I have [install]11:11
oilpla pla11:11
oiland [install]11:11
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JaffaI don't think you can with the current application manager - I belive it's planned, tho11:22
timelessoil: canola adds multiple repositories11:23
keesjJaffa: I registered a project on tuxfamily for a mud repository11:23
oilthanks. I'll check how they did it11:24
keesjI want to create a "read" deb repository with good stats etc11:24
oilrepo_name = Canola11:24
oilrepo_deb = deb mistral user11:24
oilrepo_deb_3 = deb bora user11:24
oilpackage  = canola11:24
oilhm.. there is only 1 repository on canola11:24
oilfor bora that is11:25
timelessdo you mean something like: deb http://blah laag black sheep11:25
AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:26
oilI mean 2 different sources. so that the both are on different servers11:26
timelesswhat's wrong w/ my canola example?11:26
oilbasically I need to install wget with my little software and wget is not on bora's default sources11:27
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oiltimeless: in canola there is one source for 770 and one for 80011:27
_Monkeyso is someone porting cheese to maemo....11:27
* timeless doesn't think the application manager knows the difference11:27
timelessyou're reading too much into things11:27
timeless_monkey forget so11:28
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot so11:28
timeless_monkey so is <reply>11:28
_MonkeyOK, timeless.11:28
pupnikdoes that <reply> tag supress monkey's learning?11:29
floriangood morning11:30
timelessnot technically11:33
timelessit suppresses its response11:33
timeless_monkey literal so11:33
_Monkeytimeless: so =is= <reply>11:33
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timelessyou can't learn/teach when there's already something there11:33
timeless_monkey so is \what11:33
_Monkey...but so is <reply>...11:33
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_Monkeyniihau, saaib11:35
pupniki like being able to tell monkey what i'm doing (or not doing etc) so ppl can ask11:35
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timeless_monkey i am also cleaning house11:35
_Monkeyokay, timeless.11:35
timeless_monkey who am i?11:35
_Monkeyi think timeless is a browser developer working for nokia on the maemo browser (microb). also a mozilla contributor or cleaning house11:35
konttoriHey, any ideas on why ukmp running mp3 gstreamer crashes if pidgin makes a sound in the system?11:36
konttoriApparently they both try to access dsp or something, but is there way to avoid conflict?11:36
saaibisn't using esd?11:36
konttorigstream call.11:37
saaibI'm having problem adding my WAP into the 770. I previously configured an open spot successfully.11:37
whaqis microb the one using mozilla's engine?11:37
saaibIf I try to discover the AP doesn't show up11:38
saaiband this is the same AP i use for this (IRC) connection11:38
timeless_monkey microb?11:38
_Monkeymicrob is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)11:38
timelessmonkey timeless =~ s/r or cleaning house/r/11:39
timeless_monkey timeless =~ s/r or cleaning house/r/11:39
_MonkeyOK, timeless11:39
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timelessso um11:42
timelesswhat is internettablettalk, and why/how do i use it to find people complaining about my software?11:43
timelessThe following errors occurred with your search:11:43
timeless   1. The string you entered for the image verification did not match what was displayed.11:43
konttoritimeless: Are you serious? It's the web site that hosts most active user forums for n800 / 770 users11:46
timelesskonttori: half serious11:46
konttoriyou can search for mentioning of your sotftware there and or create a new discussion around them.11:46
pupnikare you saying the search is broken?11:46
timelessgiven that i don't want to wade through millions of posts11:46
konttoriAt least for me it has worked really well11:47
timelesspupnik: well, yes11:47
konttoriwell, there is a search11:47
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timelessfirst, why do i have to enter a captcha to search11:47
konttorialso, once you have a discussion, you can just subscribe to it and new posts in that discussion will be sent to you via emaill11:47
rwhitbyno bot searching allowed :-)11:47
timelesssecond, why does a search for 'microb' lead me to a random rant where the page it returned doesn't have the word11:47
timelessi'm sure it's burried 5 pages into the thread11:47
timelessbut i don't intend to read 5 pages just to find the word11:48
timelessthat defeats the point of a *Search* feature11:48
rwhitbytimeless: I say just ignore any user comments that aren't made on the official microb support page.11:48
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syntuxany developer alive?11:48
timelessrwhitby: ok, this is going to sound really stupid11:48
timelessbut which page is that:? :)11:48
konttoriAre you looking for the new gecko browser discussion?11:49
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timelesskonttori: i'm looking for "anywhere" that people might have mentioned bugs in the new browser11:49
konttoriok, well they have one discussion around that11:49
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rwhitbytimeless: the one listed under "How can I download and give feedback?" on
* timeless wonders if _monkey does karma11:51
rwhitbyshouldn't be too many comments there ....11:51
timelessrwhitby: the smile is because i wrote that article11:51
timelessand that's precisely where i want bugs11:51
pupniksearching for microb gives several interesting error reports on ITT11:51
timelessany other place is something i don't read automatically11:51
rwhitbytimeless: the fact you wrote it is exactly why I pointed out the irony of that paragraph :-)11:52
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timelessrwhitby: the problem is that there might be other pages that people might find11:52
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timelesse.g. for all i know there's a page on or something11:52
konttori238 comments on that thread.11:52
timelessor worse,
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* timeless hasn't managed to kill all the garage bits11:53
* timeless goes off to kill a few more11:53
rwhitbytimeless: ah, so you actually are looking for comments, not looking for excuses not to read comments.  My mistake :-)11:53
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lardmanmorning all11:53
timelessrwhitby: i'm looking for bugs11:53
timelessi'd rather not read commments11:53
timelessi don't care if people like my product11:54
timelessi want to know what needs to be fixed11:54
rwhitbyif it's not in the bugtracker, then it's not a bug :-)11:54
konttoriI recommend using internettablettalk forums if you want to have dialogue with the users11:54
* timeless doesn't want dialogue :)11:55
konttoriIf you want just bug reports, good luck with that one, but not that many people are willing to take the time to report bugs in a formal way11:55
konttoriwell, then just stick with the bug reports11:55
konttoriLooks like people are looking for changelogs:
timelessmy next blog is basically a changelog11:58
konttoritimeless: is there a changelog for the latest microb release?11:58
timelessand it includes links to the actual changelog files11:58
rwhitbytimeless: has the keyboard-fixed-release happened yet>11:59
timelessrwhitby: we just pushed it to a testing repo11:59
* timeless goes to find out where that is11:59
konttoriGBTV 208 episode is raving about n800 + navicore12:01
timelesshey, he can't find it :)12:01
konttoriI don't think that's surprising as he's not the developer, so he's probably not that interested in reading the discussion in such a detail (just a guess).12:02
timelesshe=the guy here who pushed the packages to some stage12:02
konttoriAhh.... sorry. my bad12:02
timelesspersonally, i don't think you guys will want the debian changelog files12:02
timelessnah, that was my fault, i was ambiguous12:02
timelessanyway, give me a few secs12:03
timelessok, we think we found the staging repo12:03
konttoriI don't think either. I think people want a list of things that have been fixed / improved / added.12:03
* timeless nods12:03
konttoriA simple one page list (max) of things that have been changed12:03
timelessok, #microb, i'll pass out a couple of urls there shortly12:03
pupnikis there a url i/we should give people for bug reports and discussion?12:04
pupnik(for microb)12:04
pupnikwhat is it?12:04
timelessthe one rwhitby pointed to had the right one12:04
timeless"How can I send feedback"12:05
timelesshold on12:05
timelessthat's not the link i was looking for12:05
* timeless grumbles12:05
timelessHow can I help12:06
timelessat the bottom12:06
konttoriperhaps the default home screen could have a link to the report a bug screen12:07
konttorithe default home page I meant12:07
pupnikok i will share this url12:07
pupnikwow ... great project timeless12:08
pupnikthe news/2 page is a good overview12:08
pupnikfrom news/1 there is missing a download link12:10
pupnik"How can I download and give feedback?12:10
pupnikFeedback is very helpful for the ongoing development and testing work. The application is ready for end users: just install the browser engine in one-click and start using it! "12:10
timelessyeah, i'll fix that :)12:11
timelesswell, hrm,12:11
* timeless wonders "how" to fix that12:12
timelessoh yeah12:12
lardmanAre the hooks to the Flash9 library in the engine or via the interface?12:12
timelessok, i'll make one-click a link12:12
timelessit's almost standard npapi12:12
timelessin theory firefox or opera for the device could use the same flash9 plugin12:12
lardmanoh right12:12
lardmanI was thinking of the people who were saying flash would be cool as an interface for their apps (rather than browsers)12:13
pupnikunique311 made a collection of 20MB of flash games, with an index .html  - interesting to see what can be done with flash on the tablets12:14
timelessui designers here use flash for mockups and sometimes testing12:15
pupnikmakes sense, i've seen things done very fast/conveniently with flash12:15
lardmanAnyone happen to know whether the Bluetooth chip can be driven directly from the DSP?12:16
lardmanSorry about my slight change of topic12:17
* pupnik thinks microb might be reason enough to go to 2007he12:19
pupnikno idea lardman12:19
lardmanhmm, I imagine it'll need a driver = avs_kernel recompile12:20
lardmanI had the impression that Nokia were working on being able to access bluetooth from the dsp directly, I wonder what I read to make me think that...?12:20
* timeless cries12:20
timelessplease don't add that permanently12:21
pupniklardman, have you been able to get anything running on the DSP?12:23
lardmanpupnik: Yep, the G.711 mu-law encoder appears to work ok12:23
timelesspupnik, #microb?12:23
pupniktimeless: i do not understand your question12:24
* lardman is thinking of a gstreamer SBC sink12:24
pupnikthe ogg sink would be most useful to me, but i think i mentioned that already12:24
lardmanI have a load of code, I need to check and see if I can release it12:25
pupnikyeah examples would be great12:25
lardmanAh, this is ogg decoder code that I was sent...12:25
lardmanBut still we currently have no way of accessing the audio codec12:26
pupnikdue to missing kernel headers?12:26
lardmanand I wonder whether the link between the ARM & DSP can handle the compressed stream in and raw data out12:26
lardmanavs_kernel headers, yes12:26
kulvelardman: compressed stream?12:27
pupnikshould be no more difficult than mp3 decoding12:27
lardmankulve: vorbis -> DSP12:27
kulvelardman: isn't it just "data". The link doesn't care what you sen..12:27
lardmankulve: Yes, it's the volume of data and timings I was wondering about12:27
lardmanpupnik: For the input to the DSP yes, but without being able to access the audio codec from the DSP side, we must send the decompressed data back to the ARM side to output it12:28
pupnikok i understand12:28
pupnikif nokia should be helping any 3rd party developer i nominate lardman12:29
lardmanah-ha, -> BT headset support12:29
lardmanthat's why I thought they would implement SBC & dsp-side bluetooth access12:30
lardmanpupnik:, I think they are thinking about how to help us, just without giving away too many secrets, etc.12:31
lardmanwhich is understandable12:31
pupniksomeone like you who has learned how to get things running on DSP should be able to get access with a NDA12:32
timelessnote that the roadmap is about as noncommital as possible12:33
timelessand usually developers for things like that won't want to be subject to an nda12:33
lardmantimeless: Yes, I wasn't counting on it, just that I also want to achieve that end, so perhaps it will help me12:33
timelessit makes their coding life painful12:33
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lardmanI don't know whether it could be written under an NDA unless I start the code from scratch anyway, and I do have a day job12:34
pupnikso an open source implementation might disclose some nda info?12:34
lardmanit would show the functions and how to call them, so yes I reckon that would breech an NDA12:35
timelessi can't figure out how to make an nda useful12:35
kulvelardman: btw. I tried the instructions about the g711 with dspgateway 3.3.1. It did work, almost.12:35
lardmanto write an abstraction layer would be possible12:35
lardmanbut really you wouldn't gain much by abstracting, as the functions would probably need to be very similar12:36
lardmankulve: Where did it break?12:36
kulveI would guess, that if there would be ogg/speex dsp codec that would pass the decoded raw audio back to ARM side, then there would be more solid demand for the DSP/EAP_* stuff..12:37
kulvelardman: the dsp output had extra data appended to the output compared to the arm side output12:38
kulveuntil that point they were identical12:38
lardmankulve: True, I need to do some testing to work out what limits we have on data rate and quantity12:38
lardmankulve: That may be true for me too, I didn't look very far into the data stream (only had a hexeditor)12:38
lardmankulve: There's a slight issue in the way I implemented the code, as the char is 16bit on the DSP side, I passed back a char array to the ARM and OR'd together every two 16bit chars on the DSP side12:39
lardmankulve: and I forgot to handle any trailing single char (i.e. off number of words input)12:40
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kulveyeah, well, the point is that it ~works :) I don't really care if the g711 works perfectly.. :)12:40
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lardmanyes, that was my goal, get something working tolerably to show a 'useful' example12:41
kulveit would definitely be slower in dsp in any case..12:41
kulve..because of the transfer delays12:42
lardmanI've not measured what they are12:42
lardmanbtu if you map memory to pass the data, it may be faster (though perhaps not this algorithm)12:42
lardmanthat's something I ought to do12:42
lardmanNote that Nokia provide a linear2ulaw function in the avs_kernel, so presumably they thought it was worth it12:43
kulvewe tested something years ago with omap1510 dev board and it was some milliseconds. Which is pretty much. It's possible that we did something wrong, because I didn't find any reason why it should be so slow12:43
lardmanunless it's just to remove load from the ARM-side12:43
lardmankulve: Ah, okay12:43
lardmanI guess that if we could do output too, then we might claw back some time and reduce ARM-side load more, to make it worthwhile12:44
* lardman is thinking of JPEG decoding/encoding as an interesting DSP project12:45
lardmanTry to use the IMGLIB functions12:45
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lardman, all ready to go, almost13:02
kulvenice :)13:03
lardmansure is, >8bit char support, and specific Ti stuff to link into DSPLIB13:04
* lardman is reading the vorbis spec now to get some idea of what it all does13:04
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timelesswe've announced a newer version of the browser14:31
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lardmantimeless: hmm, doesn't like google anymore14:39
lardmanoops, user error14:40
* lardman goes to look at the bugtracket14:41
Crofton|homelardman, Koen said you know about the DSp on the OAMP?14:42
lardmanCrofton|home: I know a little, yes14:42
Crofton|homeone day I need to get it working in OE14:42
Crofton|homeget the bridge running and figure out how to get some code on it14:43
lardmanCrofton|home: I think that should be reasonably easy, if you're willing to use the Nokia avs_kernel14:43
Crofton|homeI was hoping the git kernel is OK14:43
lardmanah sorry, the avs_kernel is what runs on the DSP14:43
Crofton|homeok, well I know where to look14:44
lardmanCrofton|home: Would this be better in Angstrom?14:44
Crofton|homedo you do much dsp dev?14:44
Crofton|homewhat be better?14:44
lardmanThe conversation14:44
Crofton|homeI am running on the OMAP starter kit14:44
Crofton|homeprobably :)14:44
lardmanI'm trying to get some useful-ish things running on the DSP, first one is a slightly broken G.711 ulaw encoder14:45
Crofton|homefor 770?14:45
Crofton|homewhat do you use for DSP tools?14:45
Crofton|homewhat processor is N800?14:45
lardmanthe 770 was a problem, it wasn't very happy when I was trying to add tasks, I need to try again and see if it was user-error14:45
kulven800 is omap214:46
kulvebut the dsp is the same as in 770 and omap151014:46
lardmanFor the dsp tools, look here:
kulveI think the cpu is 2420, not 2430?14:46
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lardmanCrofton|home: I have a spare 770 lying about, I'm happy to help14:47
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kulveI think learning the dsp stuff can be easily made with the omap151014:48
kulveit has the same dsp and works with vanilla omap kernel14:48
lardmanCrofton|home: You want sound output on the 770 I imagine?14:48
lardmanI seem to remember that didn't work last time I tried a Familiar image14:48
Crofton|homeWe do software radio14:49
kulvethe 1510 dev board is good, since it has eth & rs232 (at least the one had that I've played with)14:49
lardmanOh, a real application, cool14:49
Crofton|homedata :)14:49
lardmanCrofton|home: I've never build the DSP kernel, it'll be an interesting learning experience ;)14:49
Crofton|homeright now I need to finish my thesis, but after that I need to work out things like this14:49
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lardmanCrofton|home: Is there a useful Ansgtrom image for the 770?14:50
Crofton|homethanks for the info14:50
Crofton|homelardman, I am not sure14:50
Crofton|homethere are builds, but I do not know if they are tested14:50
Crofton|homeI should buy a spare14:50
lardmanDo you have to use Ansgtrom, could you use the Nokia image and create a task to do what you want?14:50
lardmana dsp-task that is14:51
Crofton|homewell, I am working on the OSK14:51
Crofton|homeOMAP dev board14:51
Crofton|homeIO is hard on 77014:51
lardmanSo presumably you have some experience of building the kernel, setting the memory mappings, etc.?14:51
lardmanthat's good to know14:51
lardmanwhy do you say IO is hard?14:51
Crofton|homeThanks for the link14:52
Crofton|homewell, I need access to fairly high speed A/D convertors14:52
lardmanSo you're not actually bothered about the 770 per se, just my experience of using a DSP?14:53
Crofton|homeexactly :)14:53
lardmanAll becomes clear :)14:53
Crofton|homealthough I have a 770, and would like to yhack around with it one day :)14:53
lardmanWell, I'm happy to answer any questions I can, and to learn from what you're doing14:53
lardmanand I should probably take a look at Ansgtrom too14:53
Crofton|homeIm sure I'll be in touch14:54
lardmantimeless: Hmm, I still find the browser doesn't like 'right-clicks", I can never get google to open something in another window. I need to see if I can work out why, then post a bug14:55
lardmanTime to install a new graphics card, see you later (hopefully) all14:57
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timelessfirst i've heard of that15:00
timelessi need to file my rss bugs now that the rss feeds are public :)15:00
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Jaffatimeless: excellent changelog15:23
`0660where is it?15:25
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* mgedmin tried to install microb once, but got an error from the package manager and gave up15:27
William001Hi, I can't find libwrap0 - portmap and nfs-utils depends on libwrap0 :)15:27
William001Where can i download it ;)15:27
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JaffaWilliam001: try apt-get install libwrap0 as root in xterm?15:29
William001Package libwrap0 is not available, but is referred to by another package.15:29
William001This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or15:29
William001is only available from another source15:29
William001E: Package libwrap0 has no installation candidate15:29
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matmohelp! Week old 770 with IT2007 Hackers on it for several days then yesterday things started to crawl, CPU at 100%, battery life shot to hell. Tried ssh'ing into it to see what is the problem but obviously it is unresponsive.15:41
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Jaffamatmo: remove all your RS-MMC cards; could be metalayer-craweler15:45
matmoJaffa: reboot now. What is metalayer-craweler?15:46
Jaffamatmo: it indexes all your media files so that the Media Player can break things down by artist/album/genre etc. rather than relying on you organising your files sensibly15:47
matmoBack up and yes metlayer-crawl is at 92.4%. I have a 2G card but mainly for apps. How can I exclude it from any search, if fact how can I stop searching altogether? Thanks for your help.15:48
Jaffamatmo: search ITT, there's lots of stuff about it there15:49
Jaffa_Monkey: ITT?15:49
_MonkeyITT is
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matmosafe to kill the task for now?15:49
JaffaI believe so ;)15:49
William001Jaffa: I found libwrap0, but how do i start portmap and nfs-common services?15:51
JaffaSame as on any other Debian-style box?15:52
William001/etc/init.d/portmap start?15:57
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William001/etc/init.d/portmap start and /etc/init.d/nfs-common works, but i still get: mount: Mounting on /media/nfs failed: No such device16:02
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pupnikWilliam001: last i read, a nfs-enabled kernel is necessary.16:03
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pupnikFor the 770 at least, and i might be out of date16:04
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William001How do i install the kernel? :)16:04
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pupnikthere are two ways, using the flasher over USB, or the on-device kernel installer (i think by fanoush?) -- i don't have links on-hand16:05
pupniksearch nfs kernel on ITT forums, or on maemo wiki16:05
_Monkeywell, nfs is so much better16:05
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pupnikhi k-s[WORK]16:06
pupnikWilliam001: i'm not up-to-date on the nfs mounting right now, sorry16:07
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k-s[WORK]pupnik: hi16:09
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matmook, killed and renamed. Can anyone point me to somewhere to identify running processes? I have about 50 of the buggers.16:17
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pupnikps command - ps aux or something16:18
matmosry, I mean like "what is it", eg, sapwood-server, eapd(x3), avahi-daemon, btcond, obexsrv, dsme, etc, etc.16:20
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melmothhow cna i checj if my scratchbox is maemo 3.1 or maemo 3.2 ??16:20
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melmothcan something with scracthbox maemo3.2 can please tell if 'apt-get install libgtk2.0-0-dbg' works ?16:22
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melmothohh, works here :)16:23
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pupnikmatmo: on unix systems i use 'man' to find out what the process/program does - for processes running on tablet i use google16:26
matmopupnik: yeah I already do that. I was hoping someone may have brought together a page detailing the more common ones.16:27
matmoanother q: I have extended vmem to mmc. Will it screw things up if I remove the card while running?16:29
Jaffamatmo: yes, but the system will probably warn you when you open the hatch (and then die horribly if you pull it out)16:32
matmoJaffa: ok, i guess i will avoid it then, lol16:32
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matmojust spotted the open-box-rox thread, anyone using it here?16:33
matmoargh, never mind, it's just yet another distraction for me16:36
matmoI'm hoping to use Squeak in a practical way on the 77016:37
matmowhaq: seen it, impressive16:39
_MonkeyI haven't seen 'it,', matmo16:39
matmo_Monkey: sry, what?16:40
_Monkeymatmo: no idea16:40
whaqvery impressed.. from its concept to the smooth implementation..16:40
whaq_Monkey is a bot16:40
matmo_Monkey: no idea about what?16:41
_Monkeymatmo: wish i knew16:41
whaqseen matmo16:41
_Monkeymatmo was last seen on #maemo 4 seconds ago, saying: _Monkey: no idea about what? [Fri Aug 10 14:40:41 2007]16:41
matmoarh, ok16:41
whaqusually u need to address him first before he responds, but there are some keywords he'd just perk up to without being called at (such as 'seen')16:42
rwhitbymatmo: a bot is an automated program that people put on IRC to annoy other people16:43
rwhitby(in _Monkey's case at least)16:44
rwhitbysome other bots are actually useful.16:44
matmorwhitby: thanks, I was actually questioning if it is a bot. Otherwise I'm stupid enough to continue the "conversation", lol16:45
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matmo(and I missed whaq's comment)16:45
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matmotypical charging time for the 770 battery?16:46
lardman~3 hours?16:47
lardmannot long anyway16:47
_Monkeynfs is so much better16:47
onionI just released an update to the audio player modplug addon, if anyone is interested16:48
Nermalmy n770 still hasn't shipped >:|16:48
Nermalordered on saturday ffs16:48
matmolardman: thanks. Thought it was around an hour so I've been stopping at 216:48
lardmanmatmo: It should stop on its own16:49
matmoI had seen reports of charging probs so I was playing safe16:50
Jaffa_Monkey: it is <reply>16:50
_Monkeyi already had it that way, Jaffa.16:50
onionNermal: from where did you order it ?16:50
lardmanmatmo: News to me, anyway the battery is reasonably cheap16:50 :|16:50
Nermalthey're expecting stock today but said that on wednesday16:51
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matmogood to hear16:51
Nermalit's gone up to 89 quid now, I got it for 75 inc VAT16:51
onionI ordered a second 770 for my gf from expansys16:51
Nermalaye - they'd sold out by the time I heard of the price reduction16:51
Nermalstill got the nav kit for 80 quid though16:52
matmoNermal: yep, i think they are selling out fast. I got two, intending to sell one... but no way now :-)16:52
Nermalhoping they can get the stock thats all16:52
lardmanNermal: really? where from?16:52
onionfunny, they had plenty of stock when I placed my order.. suddenly they where waiting for stock I had to wait a couple of weeks16:52
Nermaldon't really want to use ebay16:52
Nermallardman: I ordered it from - they're 89 quid now16:53
lardmanNermal: I meant the navkit16:53
Nermal500+ in stock16:53
matmoonion: they *all* do this16:53
Nermal2007 edition too16:54
Nermalmatmo: aye - gits16:54
lardmancool, thanks16:54
Nermalstrange now that nav kit is more than the device ;)16:54
matmoisn't £80 expensive? Couldn't a cheap-ish BT thing work with maemo maps? Me new to 770 so what do i know16:55
Nermalyou can get a BT gps module for about 30 quid so you're paying about 50 quid for the navman 2007 software16:55
lardmanyes, ~£30 for a GPS, but maemo maps is bitmap based, so I'm not sure how implementing routing would be able to work16:56
Nermalmaemo maps you'd have to download the maps yourself and I think some hacking needed  for turn by turn - plus you don't get a 3d view16:56
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Nermalso not a bad deal given the res of the 770 screen and the size of it16:56
lardmanif you have a cheapish gprs contract then recalcing the route from the web would work16:56
Nermaltalking 250 or so quid for a tomtom with the same size screen (but lower res)16:57
Nermallardman: aye - I could add web and walk to my t-mobile contract for 12 quid a month to get 3gig a month over 3g16:57
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lardmanNermal: In that case perhaps maemo mapper is a better plan, and more fun to add the features you want, etc.16:57
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matmoanyone using samba server on 770? I have it installed but cannot find SWAT16:58
Nermallardman: true - just depends if you want an out of the box nice gps system or whether you want to be stuck in traffic or in a field wishing you'd coded traffic reports in ;)16:58
lardmanyes, but does Navicore do that?16:59
Nermalnavicore does traffic reports yah16:59
lardmanReally? How?16:59
NermalI think it uses either the RDS signal that radios use16:59
Nermalor your phones net connection16:59
devso far mine does only the second17:00
Nermalthere was an article a while ago about how its not authenticated so you create a device that will let all gps devices in range know there is a bull fight ahead or something17:00
lardmanMust be phone net connection, I was hoping the N800 radio could grab RDS, but it's not the right chip17:00
* Nermal gets bored of refreshing the order page for his 77017:00
Nermalwhat I need is some kind of handy mobile web device so I can check the order status of my 770 wherever I am!17:01
JaffaGet an N800 ;-)17:01
matmome just happy I never got a GP2X a few months ago :-)17:03
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pupniklots of easy projects to work on matmo17:05
pupnikpenguin command just needs a few more hours work to finish adapting to 800x48017:05
pupnikufo2000 is more complicated, but also can work if it is optimized17:06
pupnikdaimonin just needs a page flipper to move to top/bottom of 800x600 screen, or a whole new UI17:06
pupniksnes9x needs to be patched to use esd or some other nokia-compatible sound server17:07
matmomy usual linux stuff is battling usb devices for days then hating linux for a few more days, lol17:07
pupnik for works-in-progress and links.html for links to games to port17:07
konttoriis the snes emu in a better shape these days?17:08
pupnikyeah well it's easier than i thought and very fun to hack on games17:08
matmo(checking link now)17:08
pupnikno improvements on snes9x.  couldn't get aoss wrapper working.   no work on drpocketsnes lately17:08
konttorihmm... is the 1.51 the latest?17:08
pupnikyes, but 1.4 is slightly faster - just by a tiny bit17:09
matmopupnik: impressive, you working on all these?17:09
konttoriand the drpocketsnes is not working yet17:09
pupnikalso another thing is disabling snes9x scaling - i haven't found where to disable the scaling17:09
pupnikyeah snes9x would be halfways workable on n800 with sound and scaling hacks17:10
pupnikfor 770 we really need drpocketsnes or squidgesnes17:10
konttoriI hope you'll get the hacks in place17:10
konttoriand next nokia device has semi-decent dpad17:11
pupnikyeah that's all we really need.  onscreen buttons can suffice for the right hand side17:11
matmojust looking at your acmonitor page, is the 770 usable while charging, I read some where that it would actually be discharging?17:12
pupnikbeen playtesting for a while and the OS buttons are really not that bad17:12
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pupniksomeone on itt forums thought that acmonitor reduced battery life - nobody has reported real tests yet17:12
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matmohe he, penguin command looks good. Not much of a gamer but I'll give it a go when you release.17:14
timelesswell, have a good weekend all. feel free to file good bugs :)17:14
matmotimeless: u217:14
pupnikcheers timeless - thanks for the work17:14
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pupnikhmm, i have no idea what day it is :)17:14
matmoCCC: Common Coder Condition17:15
matmoas u get older remembering the year is a problem17:15
timelesssimple: if i'm leaving before 6pm, it must be friday17:16
timeless(or if i leave at all)17:17
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onionOh, my other little project, might be interesting for osm/maemo-mapper users:
* Nermal peels onion 17:18
lardmanI see the words fork, onion makes me cry17:19
lardmanwhy a fork?17:19
Nermalwhats OSM ?17:20
Nermalon screen mapping ?17:20
lardmanthough I do like the looks of the feature list17:20
onionlardman: I didn't like working with the big one-file-only c source17:20
onionNermal: openstreetmap17:20
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Nermaloh I see17:21
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cosmoonion: looks really good, thanks!17:21
onionand now for a 400km test drive...17:21
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lardmanis the data vector based?17:22
lardmanso it could be used for routing?17:22
onionthat's the next feature I'll be working on17:22
lardmancool, and generated from people's gps tracks? So it also contains speed/time data?17:22
onionlardman: well, sort-of.. you trace gpx tracks to make nodes->segments->ways and tag these.. read the openstreetmap page for more information17:23
pupnikhere's an idea for an app - warn of too high speed when nearing a curve in automobile17:24
Nermalhas planner been ported ?17:24
lardmanokay. Sounds pretty cool, I was just wondering if it also had data about average speeds for certain times of day (which is the next step in routing so I've read)17:24
Nermalpupnik: I have a small cube shaped cat for that - if he slides off the dashboard - I'm going too quick17:24
lardmanpupnik: might be difficult, need to plug in your vehicle type and driving style17:25
pupnik:) yeah17:25
Nermallardman: "hurt me plenty"17:25
lardmanbut if you have that BT CANbus (carman?) connection, it might know for itself....17:26
onionthat would be pretty cool17:26
lardmanpossibly getting a bit ahead of ourselves mind you :)17:27
pupnikit could learn average speeds for a route - including a distribution curve for danger segments and warn if you are in the top 10% speedwise17:27
pupniki know :)17:27
onionjust to expensive for me right now17:27
lardmanKnowing average vehicle speeds at different times of the day would be useful for routing17:27
lardmanrouting hmm, rout route, strange language is ours17:28
* lardman never writes anymore, spell checker catches it, normally defaulting to US English. Grr17:29
Mikhoyes, english is weird17:35
lardmanonion: Anyway, going back to my original question, do you need to fork?17:35
onionlardman: feel free to integrate any changes into maemo-mapper17:36
lardmanonion: Seems a shame to split development of two similar applications17:36
onionlardman: well, maemo-mapper is simpler and many of the planned features are targeted for working with OSM17:36
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onionso if you don't need anything fancy then maemo-mapper is probably more right for you17:37
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lardmanonion: I think looking at routing algorithms would be interesting, that's why I asked about the vector format17:38
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onionlardman: yes it's vector based17:39
lardmanonion: the similarities are things like POI (perhaps), location information (with abstraction), voice output, etc.17:39
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onionwell, anyway gotta go.. need to drive a ~400km17:40
greygusbyippie, usb hostmode finally works ... the usb hub was the cause, although its external powered it still draws power from the device. a usb dockingstation works :)17:40
lardmanokay, have a nice weekend17:40
onionleave any comments on the talk page17:40
greygusbnow the only thing i cant figure out is what i have to do in order to now only get a usb mouse detected but also get it working in the graphical interface.17:41
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pupnikmissing the cursor?17:42
greygusbi got the mouse arrow already visible, does anyone know if and where it is possible to configure the graphical interface (X or whatever it is)17:42
pupnikhow do you mean17:42
pupnikyou mean like configuring a mouse in xorg.conf?17:42
greygusbdmesg tells me it gets usb mouse, hid and so on17:42
greygusbthe cursor is already visible, but does not move, iassume i have to tell the x server (if it is one) to also use the mouse17:43
pupnikmakes sense - the server is i think called 'xomap' and based off 'kdrive'  - maybe those will help you for search terms17:43
greygusbif now i can only assume the ps2 port in the usb docking station i have attached is interfering as its already appearing as usb hid for the n80017:44
greygusbthanks, i think i once read the n800 x is based on, but quite modified17:44
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greygusbmh, sources i can see, if the config is compiled in then tere still should be chance of getting it running, i just asked if maybe already found a way :)17:45
Mikhowhat is this? Why doesn't the backspace key work on GtkEntry?17:47
pupnikapplication 'synergy' can steer the mouse, maybe you can see how that does it17:47
MikhoI can type in normally but not delete17:47
pupniki have seen this problem mentioned before - check ITT forums17:48
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greygusbyes, also an idea17:49
bipolarI guess that the guys working on getting kde working on the n800 have given up on it? anyone know anything about it?17:57
Mikhoerm, do I really need to write a custom key handler for backspace and delete?17:58
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pupnikdid you search itt forums with keyword 'backspace'?18:00
||cw2bipolar: like, a full kde?  or QTE?18:01
pupniksomeone was doing kde - very large tho18:02
MikhoI can only find xterm backspace issues there18:03
||cw2I've installed kubuntu on a 1G CF card in a 200Mhz SoC system with 128M ram, it "worked", but I wouldn't want to use it on a regular basis18:03
`0660i don't think ubuntu would be much better on a system like that :)18:04
||cw2nope, xubuntu does OK though18:04
bipolar||cw2: full kde18:06
matmooskb - how to cursor up/dn?18:07
bipolar||cw2: maybe to you18:07
||cw2bipolar: i've used kde on a systems with limited resources, it is NOT useful.18:07
||cw2matmo: the D-pad18:08
bipolar||cw2: I don't care what you've done... I want to make up my own mind.. thanks18:08
erstaziXFCE is nice on older computers18:08
erstazior computers with limited resources18:08
erstazipersonally, I am not too big about flashy DE18:08
bipolar||cw2: and I'd apreciate you not calling people like me 'loonies'18:09
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* bipolar was already in not the best of moods18:09
||cw2bipolar: ok then, get a P200 with 128M ram and install a KDE based distro on it.  you'll see,18:09
bipolar||cw2: god... I've done it... I don't care.18:10
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bipolar||cw2: it's not comparable anyway18:10
||cw2yes it is, except the p200 has faster ram18:10
bipolarI DONT CARE18:10
bipolarjeez... can I make myself any more clear18:10
||cw2i'm not saying you have to care18:11
matmogong nuts here: htf do I cursor up/dn?18:11
||cw2matmo: what exactly is oskb18:11
pupnikdpad arrows, or in vi j and k18:11
Fatalon screen key board18:11
||cw2on the device you use the d-pad as arrow keys, generaly18:12
matmooh, right, haven't used that thing since day-zero18:12
||cw2i pretty much only use when I want arrow keys18:13
||cw2use it^18:13
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matmoi am using vi, keys for insert/esc (srt for dumb questions)18:15
pupniki for insert, circle-arrow button for esc18:16
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||cw2bipolar: I don't mean to offend, I just call it as I see it.  i think putting KDE on a device that does not even come close to the specs that KDE was designed to run on is a futile effort, and I find pursuing futile efforts to be, well, loony.  Now, Qtopia on the n800, that would be an interesting project, and would run most KDE based apps as well18:16
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bipolar||cw2: I understand... but that was not my question. I simply asked if the guys that had done some work on getting kde running on the n800 had stopped working on it.18:18
bipolar||cw2: I, too, wan't to see Qtopia or Opie ported to the n80018:18
||cw2lets then hope that if they stopped working on kde, they started on QPE18:19
bipolarbut then I hear things like the wifi driver being closed, and the framebuffer driver being non-standard, and start to think that the n800 is simply not worth it.18:19
bipolarIn september I'll probbly end up getting an OpenMoko (as long as the wifi plans they have work out)18:20
pupnikn800 does have better performance, newer browser, youtube live instead of first downloading -- but for me i always skip one generation of upgrade18:20
bipolarunless these closed source driver issues can be worked out... then there would be no point to getting the openmoko... I already have a phone.18:21
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Jaffabipolar: the entirety of the N800 kernel is open source, and is a binary blob for the wlan really that big a deal?18:25
bipolarJaffa: yes... I can't upgrade the kernel without breaking it, and I can't redistribute it.18:25
sparrnot open source != cant redistribute18:25
bipolarIt's not like it's just the firmware18:25
sparrand you CAN build new kernels to use old modules, its just a serious pain in the ass18:26
JaffaPresumably the wifi driver has an open source module component, with a closed source blob.18:26
sparrand what Jaffa said18:26
bipolarsparr: if you can find a part of the license on the kernel module that allows redistrobution, I'd love to see it. Maybe I missed it.18:26
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Darksmurferstazi many many hours ago you posted a link to a 'all.install' file that had all your deb repos...I tried to DL it but it gives me a 404. Any chance of me getting it from you?18:28
pupniki think 'oil' was asking how to include multiple repos in one .install file18:28
pupnik oil> how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file?18:29
pupnik oil> how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file?18:29
pupnik<oil> how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file?18:29
pupnikhmm sorry18:29
Jaffabipolar: presumably you've raised on maemo-dev and/or on Bugzilla exactly what the minimum you'd like is (e.g. a firmware blob and an open source kernel module)?18:29
* timelyx still doesn't understand why the canola install file isn't a good example18:30
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erstaziDarksmurf, yes, but I am not sure how *.install files link in the sources.list... what I think happens is, it only installs the last one18:32
timelyxerstazi: isn't application manager open?18:33
erstaziDarksmurf, thanks for letting me know that I forgot to change my http.conf for mod_rewrite to allow forwarding to the new address which is
erstazitimeless, the install file calls the application manager18:33
erstazitimelyx, do you got the time to open that all.install in a text editor and tell me if I did it right?18:34
timelyxnope :(18:34
erstazitimelyx, ok no biggie thanks though18:34
timelyxi have <20mins to shave/shower/dress/light candles and run somewhere18:34
erstazilight candles? romantic night eh?18:34
timelyxerstazi: no. i do it every friday18:35
timelyxanyway, application manager is open18:35
timelyxyou can read an old version there18:35
erstazithank you18:35
erstaziappreciate it much18:35
timelyxi'll probably try to grab a newer sardine some other week18:35
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timelyxi'll also try to remember to fix sardine so that it has svn links to /something/18:35
sparrenigma on the 770...18:37
erstaziDarksmurf, if that works, tell me18:37
erstaziDarksmurf, its only for the 77018:37
erstazierr... OS200618:37
sparrwhen i get a 770 build environment put together, im going to try to port enigma18:37
bipolarJaffa: it's already there and answered:
erstazisparr, I would port it for OS2006 but I got a project I want done first18:39
erstazia Speech to text solution18:39
JaffaMore "picked up", than "answered". Although qgil is pretty clear it's not a priority18:40
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sparrerstazi: its a non-trivial port.  first, because it wants libraries we dont have.  second, and much more difficult, because it *requires* a mouse.  i had to rewrite a lot of the input code to make it work with a dpad for the gp2x, for the 770 I would probably want to make it work with stylus-as-joystick like lxdoom does18:42
erstazimaybe borrow from lxdoom?18:42
erstaziif they did it right, and lxdoom is gpl or similar license right?18:42
sparrborrowing lxdoom's system could work...  id probably just write it myself though.18:43
erstaziwell, more power to you, just my philosophy is if it isn't broke, why fix (make) it?18:45
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sparrwell, i dont really like how lxdoom has such a small input space18:47
sparri havent looked at the source, but that could probably be fixed18:48
sparralso, i happen to be familiar with enigma's input code, and its very...  particular about how and when it wants its input events18:48
pupniki found the mouse control to be incomprehensible on first play18:48
sparrfor the gp2x i gave up on driving events at the right times, i ditched the event checker and made it poll the d-pad directly every time it wanted one18:49
sparrpupnik: heh, youre not alone18:49
sparrbut for some levels you need/want near infinite speed, and thats virtually impossible with a joystick18:49
sparrwith a joystick, dpad, stylus-as-joystick, etc...  you have to define some maximum speed18:49
pupnikyou can increase sensitivity with the right arrow, yes?18:49
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pupnikwell you can initiate motion with a stylus tap (mousedown) and track movement until mouseup afaict18:54
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sparron the gp2x i made one of the shoulder buttons double the sensitivity, as a toggle18:55
sparrthat worked decently18:55
erstazipupnik, that is true, there are javascript games that do that18:55
erstazior flash games18:55
sparrbut still fails on levels where you need really fast changes in sensitivity, in really odd patterns18:55
sparrtracking movement as the stylus moves is actually not a BAD idea...  but you run into interesting cases18:55
pupnikobviously you don't have the same problems with the nokia as you do on gp2x18:55
sparrwhat should the ball do if you move the stylus across a wall?18:55
erstaziboth js and flash games use the mousedown and move/do until mouseup18:56
pupnikit's very cool to have another gp2x porter in the club :)18:56
sparri wish i still had my gp2x18:56
sparri miss it dearly18:56
pupnikdid you ever see the unoptimized snes9x or pcsx running on the gp2x?18:58
pupniki'm curious how they fared wrt framerate18:59
sparri did not19:01
sparri came in after they started getting optimized19:01
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sparrwhat, precisely, does using the flasher utility do?19:02
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sparrif you use the various options without an image, what does it do?  can usb host mode be enabled without affecting other things?19:03
pupnikdon't know19:05
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erstaziDarksmurf, did that work for you?19:07
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matmosee ya all, thanks for the help19:38
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sparris mozilla available for the 770 (without itos 2007) or just minimo?19:57
pupniki don't think stock mozilla will run in a few MB free RAM19:58
_Monkeysomebody said minimo was (Mini Mozilla) Web browser, a slimmed down version of mozilla browser aiming resource reduced devices.
erstaziI tried minimo, it wasn't too bad20:00
pupnik              total         used         free       shared      buffers20:00
pupnik  Mem:        62224        54340         7884            0         100020:00
JuhazI'd assume he meant microb20:00
erstaziJuhaz, no minimo20:01
erstaziJuhaz, if you were referring to me20:02
pupnikthat's with no running programs :)  wonder how anything runs20:02
Juhazerstazi, I was referring to sparr20:02
erstaziJuhaz, ah20:02
erstaziI am sure microb could be ported for OS200620:02
erstaziscratchbox ftw, it makes me happy20:03
pupniktimeless was just here - should have asked him20:03
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erstazipupnik, he was leaving when I talked to him20:04
pupniklinks2 -g is kind of silly, but it hasn't crashed on me yet and it's very light20:04
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erstazipupnik, I have used it a few times20:07
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erstazivery light weight20:07
pupnikwith the load-applet-run menu shortcut you can launch it with xkbd for a virtual keyboard20:07
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pupnikwith a proper package, hildon wrapper for fullscreen and task-switching it could be decent20:08
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pupniki haven't been able to see any render quality improvement with subpixel hinting20:10
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pupniki do have a microscope here - maybe i could take pictures and see if it does make a difference :)20:11
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zaferstazi, hi, what was the url for openssh again?20:23
_Monkeyopenssh is a FREE version of the SSH connectivity tools that technical users of the Internet rely on.
zafthanks :)20:24
erstazinp (:20:24
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saaibmorning all20:39
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* pupnik is so impressed with Squaresoft's graphic artists20:44
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Darksmurferstazi the file downloaded...I don't yet have a device to actually try it on..I wanted to look at the repos. thanks20:46
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sameo_hi guys, anyone managed to have a 2.6.18 booting on the 770 ?21:25
erstaziDarksmurf, here is the sources.list:
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erstazisaaib, with dual boot?21:31
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tsohrmf, i realy need to take a look at the wifi in this house. i get better response using the mobile then i get using the wifi...21:37
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erstazitso, get access points and make sure your wifi is not being restricted21:39
erstazido you have cordless 2.4ghz wireless phones?21:39
erstaziand you might need to change the channel on your router21:39
tsothere are some dect phones in the house yes. and i have been playing around with the channel setting but outside of the upper 3 (11,12,13 iirc)i dont see much difference...21:41
tsoand the upper 3 just refuse to work...21:42
erstaziI would say access points are well enough21:42
erstazior broadcasters21:43
erstazithat just relay the signal21:43
erstazirepeaters I mean, blah21:43
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tsohell, it may even improve the quality on the laptop21:44
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WeeJayHello! I am considering purchasing an N800 but from the Nokia website it does not look like it support EAP-TLS for wireless . It seems to only support WEP and WPA-PSK :-(21:52
WeeJayCan someone please confirm this21:52
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orakleno eap-tls21:58
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tsohmm, what happend to that iphome 0.4 port to 770?21:59
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William001Does anyone know how to get NFS working on Nokia 770? I have search all the day, and i can't find anything useful :-(22:00
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mgedmin_you used to need a patched kernel, iirc22:02
mgedmin_I never tried it22:02
mgedmin_sshfs is enough for my needs22:02
tsousing ftp here22:02
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William001mgedmin_: apt-get install sshfs? :P22:06
ArtemisprimeAnyone  around22:06
sparrpupnik: swap space is your friend22:06
ArtemisprimeWhat are ome fav gamess for maemo22:07
sparrive seen platforms with a lot more free ram than we have on the 770...  i think osso/maemo/whatever has too much overhead22:07
sparrArtemisprime: openttd, doom, freeciv, nethack, and the single player puzzle game collection22:08
ArtemisprimeThanx sparr22:09
William001mgedmin_: Where can i download sshfs?22:09
zafare there any pure sip clients for the 770 other than gizmo?22:09
tsoopenssh or dropbear server/client i guess. the install required root so therefor i went for maemoftp over on the wip section of the wiki22:09
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mgedmin_William001: yes, apt-get install sshfs on your desktop22:11
mgedmin_then mount your nokia's filesystem over ssh22:11
mgedmin_this assumes you have an ssh server on your tablet22:11
mgedmin_I haven't tried it in the other direction22:12
William001OK - I'll give it a try - I do it in the other direction :P22:13
mgedmin_ooh, brave man22:13
mgedmin_have fun compiling fuse kernel modules :)22:13
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William001I need to compile it? :P22:14
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pupnikscummvm is what impresses people most who haven't seen games on tablet before in my experience here22:15
sparrscummvm only wins because we don't have the controls for good NES or GB emulation22:17
sparrif the damn thing had TWO buttons on the right side its use for gaming would increase ten fold22:17
pupnikcan't disagree there.  some people say they wouldn't like that design though22:18
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_Monkeyscummvm is a program which allows you to run certain classic graphical point-and-click adventure games, provided you already have their data files.
erstazidoes that work?22:18
sparrim not talking about shrinking the screen like that picture from the forum22:18
sparrerstazi: yes22:19
erstaziI just added that22:19
erstaziso far trying to add things to _Monkey so its more useful22:19
sparri think we could fit a few buttons without removing anything22:19
sparrim going to take apart my 770 and see how packed that side is...22:19
pupnikthere are disassembly pics22:19
pupnikand there aren't any free lines for more buttons22:20
sparrfound em22:20
pupnikand the controller can't handle multiple presses22:20
pupnikonly path is bluetooth or usb22:20
pupnikbluetooth gamepad is now 30 euro in germany, but you'd need to make a custom case22:22
_Monkeyusb is working, i've dumped files onto the n80022:23
sparr_Monkey: forget usb22:23
_Monkeysparr: I forgot usb22:23
sparra keyboard that docks to the bottom of the 770 would rock...  but far too difficult for an amateur to fabricate22:24
sparra gamepad, on the other hand...  THAT i could maybe make22:24
sparrhas anyone dremel'd a hole in the silver case so that the stylus can be inserted/removed without opening it a little?  im considering that...22:25
zafsparr, i thought it covered the stylus so that it wouldn't fall out22:25
sparrthats what the little spring clip inside is for22:25
sparrmy stylus is held in pretty firmly22:25
sparrand i think i would notice it falling out, anyways22:25
sparri would only put the hole in the case-open side, so it would still cover the stylus when the case was closed22:26
William001mgedmin_: How do i compile "fuse" :)22:26
zafi dont see any reason why dremel would have troubles with it though22:26
mgedmin_William001: I don't know22:27
sparrtake your 770.  put the case on in the 'open' configuration.  now, take the case halfway off.  picture a block of plastic filling the gap at the bottom.  this block would have a D-pad, an analog joystick, and maybe 4 decent sized buttons.  the block would connect to all 3 jacks on the bottom, and pass the power and headphones through.  what would you pay for that device?22:29
zafsparr, depends on if there's a qwerty keyboard in hte middle of all that22:29
sparrthere isnt22:30
sparri wanted to do the same thing with a keyboard, but building a whole keyboard is way outside my level of skill22:30
sparrand i cant find anyone that makes an appropriate sized/shaped keyboard to adapt22:30
zafwhat about the old 'thumbboards' for palm devices?22:31
sparrtake that, add a clip and a battery...  thats my best idea for a keyboard so far22:32
zafif that thing was bluetooth it would even cooler22:32
sparrall the existing thumbboards i can find are 'wrong' in a bunch of different ways.  first, virtually none of them are usb, which means lots of electronics work to make them work22:32
sparrsecond, most have "special" keys that we would probably not use, and that waste a lot of space.  things like email and web dedicated buttons.22:33
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pupnikthe thinkouside stowaway keyboard works fine here22:34
sparrway too big22:35
sparrand doesnt hard dock22:35
sparrand uses bluetooth, which is a battery eater22:35
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zafsparr, that little keyboard works on nokia?22:37
gw280anyone else finding problems accessing
sparrzaf: it would if you added a battery and the published usb power inserter circuit22:37
pupniksome accounts have trouble logging in22:37
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pupniktwo aa rechargeables last about 30 hours in the stowaway for me22:38
sparrbt eats nokia batteries too22:38
pupniki really haven't had a problem with that - 5-7 hours is enough22:38
zaf <-- that thing is it, right?22:40
sparrzaf: yes22:41
sparrother sites have it for as low as $1022:41
sparrfroogle it22:41
zafbut u have to add something else?22:41
sparrand you would have to enable usb host on the 770, of course.  thats supposedly not hard, but i havent done it yet22:42
zafand apparently you'd need a mini-usb to regular usb converter?22:42
zafhmm, one of those little keyboards would be handy in my server room too22:44
sparrbah @ converter22:47
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sparrid cut the cable off and re-cap it with a mini plug22:48
sparrmake it much shorter too22:48
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sparrhow much would you pay for a converted keyboard?22:49
sparrthat keyboard, with a battery compartment, shortened cable with a mini plug22:49
zafsounds interesting22:51
sparrback to the gamepad idea...  psp joystick units are available in bulk for something like $5.22:56
sparrmany times have I had an idea for a small 'cottage industry' making handheld accessories22:56
sparrbut ive never really had the guts to go through with it22:56
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pupnikhow much does it cost to make an injection mould22:58
ArtemisprimeWhere does stuff innstall ?22:59
ArtemisprimeWhat is the path ?22:59
pupnikseveral areas, depending on what it is22:59
pupnikbinaries are usually in /usr/bin23:00
ArtemisprimeYes binaries23:00
_Monkeybinaries are usually in /usr/bin23:00
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tsobtw, i found ut what was wrong with my maemo mapper. i was using a older version, 1.3.5 i think. found the proper repository and upgraded to 1.4.7 and it works :)23:09
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sparrpupnik: to MAKE a mold?  virtually nothing.23:18
sparrpupnik: time, more than anything else23:19
tsohmm, how does one add a POI in maemo mapper?23:19
sparrno idea23:19
pupnikso what would a run of 200 cost23:19
sparr200 things-made-with-an-injection-mold?23:20
sparrdepends on the scale of the company.  i know some model plane hobbyists who would run that for a friend for material cost, a few dollars.23:20
sparrmost big manufacturing companies would laugh at anything under 1000023:20
pupniki've done fiberglass and epoxy before for a model airplane23:21
mgedmin_tso: hold down the stylus for a few seconds23:22
mgedmin_in the popup menu pick Location -> Add POI23:22
tsoheh, the one thing i didnt try. i keep forgetting about that menu!23:23
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zafwhat would be cool is if i could use my treo's keyboard to type in the nokia23:34
tsohmm, i think the closes you will get is something like that bluetooth frogpad :)23:35
erstaziwho uses a bt keyboard on the 770?23:36
tsonot me, yet. i want to get hold of one. but they are kinda "expensive"23:37
tsoand i have dreamed of testing one of these:
sparrerstazi: we have one at work for the 770s...  and plenty more to use if we want from the macs23:41
sparr  <---  this is powered by four AAA batteries.  how much would you pay for it?23:41
erstazisparr, I was thinking of getting one for some code work, but I don't know, how much did you pay for it? what model is that?23:43
sparrerstazi: its a mockup.  i havent made it.  just a concept23:43
Fatalsparr: looks like one would get a cramp, isn't it a wee bit small23:43
sparrits the usb keyboard i linked earlier, plus some spring clips to hold it on, plus battery power for the usb23:43
sparrFatal: unfortunately the pickings are slim for usb keyboards anywhere near the right size23:43
Fatalimagining holding it and using thumbs to press puts them in a weird position, really strains them23:44
pupnikyou'd need something approximately the width of the 770 to hold, wouldn't you?23:45
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erstazithat would be for something on your lap23:46
sparrive got it zoomed to real scale on my screen, so i can hold the 770 in front of it and try it23:46
sparri have quite small hands23:46
Fatalhaving the keyboard below it is still strainful unless you could actually hold it with the keyboard, and not hold the 77023:46
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sparrwith the 770 held with one index finger along each side, other fingers behind it...  my thumbs seem to reach more than far enough to use a keyboard like that23:47
tsoif one wants to do coding i think a fold out would do best...23:47
sparrFatal: being able to hold it by the keyboard is plausible...  depends on how you attach it to the device23:47
tsobut has anyone else noticed problems with the virtual "thumbboard" and editing input boxes that contain paragraph spacing?23:48
sparri dont anticipate coding on the 770 very often23:48
sparri want a keyboard for email, IM, typing in URLs23:48
Fatalall I'm saying is, don't concentrate on how it'd look, concentrate what would be actually useful and easy to use w/o putting unnatural strain on your fingers23:48
sparronscreen keyboard is good for <20 characters, thumbboard for 20-200, fold out for 200+ (arbitrary limits off the top of my head)23:49
sparrFatal: so, lets say i work it out so you can safely hold it by the keyboard23:49
tsoi wonder why they dont allow it to jump to thumb mode when entering passwords...23:49
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Fatalsparr: I'd never pay more than for a BT keyboard, which is what, around $100-$150?23:50
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erstaziFatal, currently $140 with frogpad23:50
erstazicorrection: $150 plus shipping23:51
sparrFatal: ok, say i aimed more around $30-5023:51
erstazisparr, and you are saving money by it being USB23:51
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sparrits thin enough23:51
sparrit might fit inside a half-open case23:51
erstaziyou drop bluetooth, then you are saving more money but power consumption goes up23:52
sparri disagree23:52
sparrusb should not use more power than bt23:52
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sparrnot even remotely close23:53
erstaziwell, to a point23:53
erstaziBT does have a lot of power consumption23:53
erstaziI forget that wireless does consume a lot23:53
erstazibut it shouldn't be that way23:53
sparrbluetooth is the wrong way to do things like this23:54
sparrzigbee is a FAR better solution for portable input devices23:54
sparrFatal: picture my keyboard in this configuration (half open case)
erstazihow about this?
sparrthe kb in the picture is from the OQO, and its a horrible keyboard for many reasons23:56
tsocan the 770 even power a device via usb?23:56
sparrerstazi: expensive, and still bluetooth?23:56
sparrtso: no, which is why the kb has to have batteries23:56
erstaziI don't mind the bt23:57
erstazijust down the road I might want a keybaord23:57
sparrat this point i am almost certain that i am going to build one thumbboard as i described above, with the small usb board23:57
sparrif only to use for myself23:57
tsothat laser keyboard have issues tactile feedback. i have heard even the onscreen keyboard is better to use...23:58
sparrbut i think i might try to sell it too23:58
sparrwhich is why i ask you guys...23:59
erstazitso, thats what i wondered, it seems that you would need a nice flat surface23:59
pupniksee if you can find spare aluminum covers23:59

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