| MoRpHeUz | Chris Lord is the name of the guy =) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| trevarthan | looks like a hot topic | 00:00 |
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| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan, disq: http://chrislord.net/blog/kinetic-scrolling.enlighten | 00:00 |
| MoRpHeUz | =) | 00:00 |
| disq | i kinda remember that name | 00:01 |
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| trevarthan | I don't have an ogg player on my win32 desktop | 00:02 |
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| disq | i'll try vlc | 00:02 |
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| trevarthan | OK, the second link is edje, which is just pygame on crack, as far as I know. | 00:02 |
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| trevarthan | The first link... not sure what that is. Cairo + GTK? | 00:03 |
| trevarthan | Third link I can't play.... | 00:03 |
| red-zack | hey guys, i am searching for an irc client for my nokia 770. anyone can help me? | 00:03 |
| trevarthan | question for all links: how do you select an item on the list? Looks like it just scrolls. No selection control. | 00:03 |
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| disq | trevarthan: tapping probably works | 00:05 |
| _Handful_ | tapping | 00:05 |
| trevarthan | in the first video, he sort of tapped, and nothing happened. | 00:05 |
| _Handful_ | the problem I see now is the perfect balance between 2 things | 00:05 |
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| _Handful_ | we are experimenting with the inertial scrolling, but I fully agree with someone (dont remember) that is just not about copycating the iphone | 00:06 |
| _Handful_ | but actually understanding the variables for our screen, and trying to reach the best balance.. for scrolling + stopping and selecting an item | 00:07 |
| disq | i don't care about kinetic scrolling anyway. get me a bare listview/treeview and i'm ok with it | 00:07 |
| trevarthan | I care about it. scroll bars suck on touch screens. | 00:07 |
| trevarthan | it's just the "right" way to do scrolling on a touch screen, IMO. | 00:07 |
| _Handful_ | so a little bit of attention with the "threshold" between a click and a small movement (if you scroll is very sensitive, like ours is now ) | 00:07 |
| disq | oh, trev. we can't do a portrait mode with gtk | 00:07 |
| trevarthan | I came up with Kagu's scrolling before I even knew the iphone had it. | 00:08 |
| _Handful_ | trevarthan: yes.. I fully agree with you : http://www.marceloeduardo.com/blog/design/usability/more-experiments-and-why-i-think-scrollbars-on-touchscreen-are-not-the-best-way-to-go | 00:08 |
| trevarthan | then I saw it on TV and I was like "damn". They beat me to it. | 00:08 |
| amr | lol | 00:08 |
| _Handful_ | trevarthan: we did it on the 770, but the screen sensitivity was a no go | 00:08 |
| amr | its been around a while iirc | 00:08 |
| _Handful_ | our very very first prototype (january 2005) had it (actually a developer asked for it) but it was more a fitness exercise than a interaction with the ui ) =) | 00:09 |
| amr | woah 2005 | 00:09 |
| amr | i feel bad for not getting a 770 earlier | 00:09 |
| _Handful_ | the problem was the screen.. but on the n800 is a lot better | 00:09 |
| _Handful_ | (so you can fell it on kagu player) =) | 00:10 |
| trevarthan | When I first wrote Kagu's scrolling, I did it on my desktop first. Then tried it on the n800. I was amazed at the difference. I had to add a lot of "margin" into everything because the touch screen isn't as precise as a mouse click. | 00:10 |
| erstazi | trevarthan, will agree with you there | 00:10 |
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| _Handful_ | now it must have proper snap to the edges (to avoid not selected items) the correct bounce, you must be able to stop, without selecting the item, and to select the item without moving just a little bit. | 00:11 |
| erstazi | trevarthan, so with the imaging being needed, it is for it to fit more smoothly into the GUI? | 00:11 |
| _Handful_ | yes... the mouse to touchscreen conversion is a pretty different | 00:11 |
| trevarthan | erstazi: yeah, I used pygame because I wanted something that could handle fast scrolling. | 00:11 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: does kagu work on the 770? Maybe the dev just didn't have his head on right. | 00:12 |
| _Handful_ | I didn't test it : / | 00:12 |
| _Handful_ | I tested only our scrolling experiment : / | 00:13 |
| _Handful_ | but if you want, I can install it later | 00:13 |
| trevarthan | 770's browser scrolls like the n800's right? tap and drag? | 00:13 |
| disq | trevarthan: we'd still have to reimplement the widget because it has to be in python (or we'd need python modules/bindings) btw. will be long and boring | 00:13 |
| _Handful_ | yes, but it stops when you stop moving ... so you don need to use for example a tap to stop the inertial because it doesn't exists... | 00:14 |
| jbinder | trevarthan: Yeah. | 00:14 |
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| trevarthan | shame. sounds like you missed an excellent opportunity. | 00:15 |
| red-zack | oh, found xchat-maemo ... sorry for worring | 00:15 |
| trevarthan | you = we, btw | 00:15 |
| disq | red-zack: there's also pidgin somewhere | 00:16 |
| red-zack | disq: yes, i found it too. thanx a lot guys | 00:16 |
| disq | my 770 has crappy screen sensitivity so i can't test without the stylus | 00:17 |
| trevarthan | disq: I gotta play with that gtk widget. | 00:17 |
| disq | by crappy i mean the center area won't recognize unless you stab at it | 00:17 |
| red-zack | i do not often ask like a stupid idiot, but... this is the first day ive got it. today i bought it for 177 euro | 00:17 |
| pupnik | hi red-zack are you an old kanotix/sidux user? | 00:18 |
| _Handful_ | disq: that's quite normal for the 770 : / | 00:18 |
| red-zack | pupnik: i am an sidux supporter, yes | 00:18 |
| red-zack | a bit ago, kanotix, yes, too | 00:18 |
| pupnik | welcome to the tablet community! | 00:18 |
| disq | also I only have "take me down.mp3" on the device :P | 00:18 |
| red-zack | pupnik: thanks a lot ;) | 00:18 |
| red-zack | i think this channel will become an "autojoin" | 00:19 |
| disq | _Handful_: they replace the faulty screens but there's no tablet service around here | 00:19 |
| _Handful_ | unm there's none here also : / | 00:19 |
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| pupnik | red-zack: good price on that 770. i usually see them for 180+ in .de | 00:20 |
| disq | i was bummed when the right side of the n800 screen started to feel insensitive. luckily the new firmware fixed it | 00:20 |
| red-zack | pupnik: was an ebay sold. but it new, with 24 monbth garuante | 00:21 |
| red-zack | damn, my english is ** worse.. | 00:21 |
| disq | hey, i'll be in leipzig for 4 days maybe i could try to find a tablet service. but 4 days probably isn't enough | 00:21 |
| red-zack | disq: maybe @ nokia itself? | 00:22 |
| trevarthan | new firmware has done wonders for the n800 screen. I'm amazed. | 00:22 |
| disq | red-zack: of course, but the horror stories at ITT (internettablettalk.com, that is) are, well, dreadful | 00:23 |
| red-zack | ^^ | 00:23 |
| red-zack | jesus, i cannot connect to my wifi. | 00:23 |
| red-zack | whatta hell. | 00:23 |
| trevarthan | disq: could we compile that moko gtk widget, provide it as a binary dep, then just use it from python? | 00:24 |
| red-zack | hr,worked | 00:24 |
| trevarthan | I wonder how much CPU it uses... | 00:24 |
| disq | trevarthan: yeah. it's a part of libmokoui, but i guess we could only get that widget and compile | 00:24 |
| trevarthan | I need to email those guys at moko and find out more. | 00:25 |
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| disq | could investigate further in #openmoko too | 00:26 |
| trevarthan | Looks like MaemoMyth already has it. I might build that tonight and see what it can do. | 00:26 |
| _Handful_ | I tested it, and has some nice things.. and actually felt pretty nice | 00:26 |
| _Handful_ | what I like is the ability of holding the finger and it keeps scrolling | 00:26 |
| _Handful_ | to avoid multiple "swipes" I don't know how to call the finger movement in english : / | 00:27 |
| ||cw | swipe works | 00:27 |
| trevarthan | not sure what you mean. _Handful_: install kagu and play with our crappy canola/ukmp hybrid widget. Tell me what you think. | 00:27 |
| _Handful_ | thanks =) | 00:27 |
| pupnik | who was asking about flickr uploading? inz made something http://inz.fi/blog/ | 00:28 |
| celesteh | that was me | 00:28 |
| _Handful_ | trevarthan: eg: to reach a end of a long list (like here we test with 16k songs) you must swipe (or slide the finger across the screen several times... even with accellaration) what m, then I agree with disq : a scroll bar with accelleration excels ... but.. | 00:28 |
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| red-zack | mh, can i get something like a terminal/emulator for my 770? | 00:29 |
| celesteh | thanks for the link , pupnik | 00:29 |
| red-zack | possible? | 00:29 |
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| celesteh | red-zack: osso xterm | 00:29 |
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| _Handful_ | if you can place the finger.. and instead of doing that " iphone movement" you actually don't take your finger from the screen.. and goes toward the edge (bottom or top) and it keeps scrolling.. just like you do with the mouse.. when you have something beeing draggaded on a bigger canvas =) | 00:29 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: I was thinking of A-Z shortcuts on the left of the scroll widget. click Z, scroll widget jumps to Z. | 00:29 |
| red-zack | celesteh: xterm, wonderful | 00:29 |
| red-zack | need one of them ^^ | 00:29 |
| _Handful_ | yes.. the apple way | 00:30 |
| _Handful_ | I don't want to go that apple like :/ but it's a good solution | 00:30 |
| _Handful_ | the problem is.. | 00:30 |
| _Handful_ | when you don't have a alphabetical list.. | 00:30 |
| celesteh | red-zack, i think it's in the garage repository? | 00:30 |
| _Handful_ | what would you use? tokens? simbles? | 00:30 |
| _Handful_ | simbols (sorry) | 00:30 |
| _Handful_ | ? | 00:30 |
| trevarthan | I don't know what you mean by "apple way". I don't own a single apple and I've never used one. It's just an idea. | 00:30 |
| red-zack | celesteh: its my first day. soo. i have a look. thanks dear ;) | 00:30 |
| _Handful_ | the iphone scrolling put this " alphabetica index on the left" | 00:30 |
| _Handful_ | but of course it's a pretty good idea and you can use it.. | 00:31 |
| disq | ah, didn't know that | 00:31 |
| trevarthan | that's probably because it's a good idea. :) | 00:31 |
| red-zack | celesteh: does apt work for 770 too? | 00:31 |
| _Handful_ | but only works for those alphabetical sorted list.. | 00:31 |
| _Handful_ | when you have a non alphabetical... bam! | 00:31 |
| erstazi | red-zack, if you got the right repos | 00:31 |
| disq | my ideas was to put bookmarks on the top (A-D, E-H, like contacts in n800 does) but left is better | 00:31 |
| red-zack | really, really sweet. | 00:32 |
| pupnik | i have installed (770, it2006se) pool/maemo2.2/free/o/osso-xterm/osso-xterm_0.13_armel.deb | 00:32 |
| celesteh | red-zack, it's in maemo-hackers.org | 00:32 |
| pupnik | red-zack: get an updated sources list for easier package install | 00:32 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: you could come up with some other way to modify the scrolling externally. Slide wheel for speed on the left? etc.... | 00:32 |
| red-zack | pupnik: thanks. | 00:32 |
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| trevarthan | alright, I gotta drive home. bye disq! bye _Handful_. bye all! | 00:33 |
| _Handful_ | yes... that's the challenges.. we are thinking on that.. not only that.. but something that could mimic the home - end keys... | 00:33 |
| disq | there's always finger pressure. and home-end shortcuts like canola has (we can do that when we have the osd up-down arrows) | 00:33 |
| _Handful_ | or other things.. | 00:33 |
| _Handful_ | let's see | 00:33 |
| _Handful_ | bye bye | 00:33 |
| disq | cya trev | 00:33 |
| _Handful_ | disq : yes.. but those shortcuts.. are kind of too hidden : / | 00:33 |
| trevarthan | "Good Evening" (UGT) | 00:33 |
| disq | :) | 00:33 |
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| _Handful_ | heheh yes =) | 00:38 |
| red-zack | xchat working. thanks | 00:42 |
| red-zack | xterm next | 00:42 |
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| amr | man i want my 770 :( | 00:45 |
| manas | Hi | 00:45 |
| manas | I am trying to get USB host mode running | 00:45 |
| tabath | good evening | 00:46 |
| manas | on the 800. I installed the kernel patches and flashed the 800 with the new kernel and the tag : enable-host-mode | 00:46 |
| manas | Then, if I load python, I get an error message - : | 00:47 |
| red-zack | pupnik: can you tell me about apt and sources, need it^^ | 00:47 |
| manas | >>> import usb | 00:47 |
| manas | Traceback (most recent call last): | 00:47 |
| manas | File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> | 00:47 |
| manas | ImportError: /usr/lib/libusb.so: undefined symbol: usb_resetep | 00:47 |
| manas | Can anyone please help me | 00:47 |
| pupnik | red-zack: you are blocking messages | 00:47 |
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| red-zack | pupnik: mom | 00:48 |
| red-zack | pupnik: try again | 00:48 |
| manas | hey guys | 00:49 |
| manas | how's it going | 00:49 |
| manas | i'm having a tough time here.. with this USB host working.. | 00:49 |
| manas | can you help! | 00:49 |
| celesteh | the flickr tool mentioned about half an hour ago just works for screenshots | 00:50 |
| celesteh | it's a future plugin thing for maemo blog | 00:50 |
| celesteh | which, when i try to run, crashes as soon as i try to select which of my blogger blogs i mean, or if i click "offline" alas | 00:51 |
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| NeoStrider | hello folks | 00:56 |
| NeoStrider | anybody? | 00:57 |
| NeoStrider | Monkey: anybody is Im here | 00:57 |
| NeoStrider | _Monkey: anybody is Im here | 00:57 |
| _Monkey | i already had it that way, NeoStrider. | 00:57 |
| NeoStrider | _Monkey: anybody? | 00:58 |
| _Monkey | anybody is Im here | 00:58 |
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| celesteh | manas, what are you trying to do? | 01:00 |
| celesteh | the n770/800 doesn't do usb hosting | 01:00 |
| manas | celesteh: I am trying to get the n800 on the usb host mode | 01:02 |
| manas | like the stuff talked about in https://www.muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ | 01:02 |
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| celesteh | manas, normally, the n800 cannot act as a host | 01:09 |
| NeoStrider | only 770 has this hardware, right? | 01:09 |
| manas | There are some web pages that suggest that people have gotten the n800 to work as a host | 01:10 |
| manas | I am porting an application in which I was using the 770 as a usb host and the 800 | 01:10 |
| celesteh | it's darn annoying | 01:10 |
| celesteh | how am i supposed to plug in my joystick? | 01:10 |
| manas | This web page seems to think that n800 host mode should be possible -- https://www.muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ | 01:12 |
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| pupnik | scrolling images in opera 800x600 is real fast | 01:37 |
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| pupnik | good work to the core developers | 01:37 |
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| pupnik | nice, you can disable scrollbar and toolbar and do fullscreen browsing in opera | 01:48 |
| pupnik | New Advertising campaign. http://pupnik.de/pupnik_n770_streetlan.jpg The Nokia Internet Tablet - Just for people with homes anymore! | 01:51 |
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| timelyx | pupnik: you can style scrollbars off in gecko | 01:53 |
| timelyx | it'd be fairly stupid | 01:53 |
| timelyx | but you can do it | 01:53 |
| timelyx | and the toolbars are part of the browser chrome | 01:53 |
| timelyx | you can disable them for whichever browser it hosts | 01:54 |
| timelyx | pupnik: lastly, opera's scrolling has absolutely nothing to do with anyone associated w/ maemo | 01:54 |
| pupnik | ok :) | 01:54 |
| timelyx | it was done by opera inc. if you want to give them props, use irc.opera.com | 01:54 |
| pupnik | is there another irc channel for tablet users? | 01:55 |
| timelyx | actually, their speed is mostly in spite of all the stupid decisions of people associated w/ maemo :) | 01:55 |
| pupnik | well kudos to the kdrive people too | 01:56 |
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| unique311 | kdrive? | 02:07 |
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| pupnik_ | _Monkey, kdrive is a small X Window System server implementation created by Keith Packard which was the basis for xomap used in the Nokia Tablets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDrive | 02:09 |
| _Monkey | OK, pupnik_. | 02:09 |
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| pupnik_ | Keith Packard was also one of the guys who got the ball rolling for transparency and OpenGL acceleration in X | 02:10 |
| pupnik_ | one of my heroes | 02:11 |
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| Jynx | hey guys | 02:13 |
| pupnik_ | herro | 02:13 |
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| Jynx | im trying to follow the walkthought for setting up a dev environment for the 770 @ http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_2.2_Tutorial.html#settingup | 02:14 |
| unique311 | so if i say kdrive monkey responds | 02:14 |
| unique311 | kdrive? | 02:15 |
| _Monkey | rumour has it kdrive is a small X Window System server implementation created by Keith Packard which was the basis for xomap used in the Nokia Tablets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDrive | 02:15 |
| Jynx | i have got as far as getting maemopad install, but I cant find a working link for the tar yet | 02:15 |
| unique311 | lol | 02:15 |
| unique311 | nice | 02:15 |
| unique311 | train the monkey | 02:15 |
| Jynx | anyone know where it is? | 02:15 |
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| Jynx | hrm | 02:16 |
| Jynx | maemopad | 02:16 |
| Jynx | :/ | 02:16 |
| * Jynx pokes _Monkey | 02:16 | |
| disq | gah. i can't seem to debianize libmokoui2 | 02:17 |
| pupnik_ | Jynx: in scratchbox type "apt-get source maemopad" | 02:17 |
| Jynx | for some reason the apt sources wont resolve | 02:17 |
| pupnik_ | nsswitch? | 02:17 |
| pupnik_ | bad monkey, no biscuit | 02:17 |
| pupnik_ | Jynx: common problem, running ubuntu on the host? | 02:18 |
| Jynx | he | 02:18 |
| Jynx | h | 02:18 |
| Jynx | knoppmyth actually | 02:18 |
| Jynx | (debian basse) | 02:18 |
| Jynx | ^base | 02:18 |
| pupnik_ | search google for scratchbox+nsswitch | 02:18 |
| pupnik_ | that might* be the problem | 02:18 |
| pupnik_ | also check that you can wget from scratchbox | 02:19 |
| Jynx | kk | 02:19 |
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| pupnik_ | _Monkey: base is Bass! How low can you go? Death row? What-a-brotha know... | 02:20 |
| _Monkey | OK, pupnik_. | 02:20 |
| unique311 | pupnik_, i have 2 games to compile and submit... | 02:20 |
| unique311 | will do so when im done with this theme | 02:20 |
| pupnik_ | nice :) | 02:21 |
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| unique311 | fullscreen | 02:21 |
| Jynx | both nsswith.conf's contain hosts: files dns | 02:21 |
| Jynx | and i can wget from inside scratchbox | 02:22 |
| Jynx | deb http://repository.maemo.org/ maemo ossw | 02:22 |
| Jynx | deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ maemo ossw | 02:22 |
| Jynx | those sources correct? | 02:22 |
| pupnik_ | hmm never saw those -- i don't really know if mine are right either, but i can get maemopad | 02:23 |
| pupnik_ | deb http://repository.maemo.org/ gregale free non-free | 02:23 |
| pupnik_ | deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ gregale free non-free | 02:23 |
| pupnik_ | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras gregale free non-free also | 02:24 |
| pupnik_ | can you apt-get update? | 02:24 |
| Jynx | no, even with your sources | 02:25 |
| Jynx | temporary failure resolving repository.maemo.org | 02:25 |
| Jynx | is the error | 02:26 |
| Jynx | guessing something is out of what | 02:26 |
| Jynx | ^whack | 02:26 |
| pupnik_ | i can get it | 02:26 |
| pupnik_ | in scratchbox i had to change | 02:26 |
| pupnik_ | #hosts: db files nisplus nis dns | 02:26 |
| pupnik_ | hosts: files dns | 02:26 |
| pupnik_ | so now i don't know what it could be | 02:27 |
| Jynx | in nsswitch? | 02:27 |
| pupnik_ | yeah | 02:27 |
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| Jynx | ok well thanks, ill tackle it again tomorrow | 02:27 |
| Jynx | might see you then | 02:27 |
| Jynx | cheers | 02:27 |
| pupnik | ok cheers! | 02:27 |
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| NeoStrider_ | _Monkey: NeoStrider? | 02:35 |
| _Monkey | NeoStrider is probably building you a checkers game as we speak :) | 02:35 |
| NeoStrider_ | good | 02:35 |
| NeoStrider_ | who wants to connect the tablet to a joystick? | 02:35 |
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| NeoStrider_ | _Monkey: angstron | 02:44 |
| _Monkey | angstron is probably http://angstron.garage.maemo.org/ | 02:44 |
| NeoStrider_ | ok | 02:44 |
| NeoStrider_ | my connection is flaky, but working | 02:44 |
| pupnik | i use the bt keyboard usually, NeoStrider_ | 02:47 |
| pupnik | you have a usb joystick driver working? | 02:48 |
| NeoStrider_ | stowaway? | 02:48 |
| pupnik | yes | 02:48 |
| NeoStrider_ | no | 02:48 |
| NeoStrider_ | but I was very curious to know if it works | 02:48 |
| NeoStrider_ | actually I never even activated the host mode | 02:48 |
| NeoStrider_ | neither the R&D | 02:48 |
| NeoStrider_ | I like to keep my 770 vanilla | 02:48 |
| pupnik | same here | 02:48 |
| * pupnik NeoStrider_ my new picture http://pupnik.de/pupnik_n770_streetlan.jpg | 02:49 | |
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| pupnik | i hate how that pic is too dark on CRT, but too light on LCD | 02:50 |
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| NeoStrider_ | laptop LCD here ;-) | 02:50 |
| NeoStrider_ | we banished CRTs long ago in my house =-) | 02:50 |
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| NeoStrider_ | cool pic, btw | 02:51 |
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| pupnik | ty | 02:51 |
| Feral_Kid | I am having a reboot loop after I installed a weather app. I am able to boot of the flash, but not off my MMC. If I mount the MMC, what do I need to delete to remove the boot-time application from running? | 02:52 |
| NeoStrider_ | gtg | 02:52 |
| NeoStrider_ | dinner | 02:52 |
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| Feral_Kid | Does anyone know where the directory is that holds the conf file that boots at start time? | 03:05 |
| pupnik | a vague answer is /etc | 03:06 |
| Feral_Kid | pupnik> That would be very vague! :) | 03:08 |
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| pupnik | that's because a directory holding conf files does not boot at start time | 03:10 |
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| Feral_Kid | pupnik> Well, my problem is that an application is failing to boot, which cause my 770 to reboot and bring me back to the bootmenu... | 03:13 |
| frob | conf files don't boot | 03:14 |
| frob | applications don't boot either | 03:14 |
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| pupnik | Feral_Kid: the startup scripts are (afaik) mostly in /etc/rc2.d | 03:15 |
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| pupnik | Feral_Kid: so you are using a boot loader with menu? It is possible to save output of the boot process if it is the kernel that is causing problems -- search ITT forums for 'dmesg' and boot | 03:18 |
| Feral_Kid | pupnik> It is not the kernel, it is the weather application that start at boot... I meant to remove that app, and ended up rebooting before removing... Now I am have an issue with booting of the MMC, although flash is good to go, because I did not add that app... | 03:22 |
| Feral_Kid | pupnik> I had this problem before, and have lost the note on what I had to get rid of... Basically, there was a file that I had to edit to remove the application... It is that same file that what files to start (for instance rss reader, webshortcut, clock, etc) | 03:24 |
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| pupnik | ahh | 03:25 |
| pupnik | i don't know how the tablets do it - in debian apps and daemons are started in the rc?.d directories | 03:25 |
| pupnik | where ? = runlevel | 03:25 |
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| erstazi | maybe freenode can setup a maemo cloak for people | 03:26 |
| NeoStrider | yes | 03:26 |
| NeoStrider | its easy! | 03:27 |
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| NeoStrider_cloak | see? | 03:27 |
| NeoStrider_cloak | =-P | 03:27 |
| erstazi | heh | 03:27 |
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| Feral_Kid | pupnik> Yeah, I remember that is was some hildon directory... But I can find it... Oh well, I will just search slowly... Of the top of you head where would I find the information on where I have stored wep keys... | 03:27 |
| pupnik | i put them in a text file | 03:28 |
| NeoStrider | wifi? | 03:30 |
| _Monkey | wifi is both demanding and heating | 03:30 |
| Feral_Kid | pupnik> No, I am talking about when you first connect to a new ap, and the app allows to you to a connection a name, and it stores that name and wep... I need to find that so I can copy it over to my flash partition... | 03:30 |
| pupnik | no idea. you could install findutils, connect to a new ap, then search for files changed in the past 5 minutes | 03:31 |
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| NeoStrider | isnt this some source of vulnerability on some devices...cof...iPhone...cof | 03:32 |
| NeoStrider | ? | 03:32 |
| erstazi | yeah I would like to delete some wifi connections tonight | 03:37 |
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| Feral_Kid | I cannot find where that information is stored... I thought it would be in /etc/network, but nothing there... I know it is saved someplace, but where??? | 03:39 |
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| NeoStrider_ | _Monkey: be nice to me? | 03:44 |
| _Monkey | neostrider_: no idea | 03:44 |
| NeoStrider_ | _Monkey: be nice to me is hard | 03:44 |
| _Monkey | OK, NeoStrider_. | 03:44 |
| pupnik | MICROSOFT: (n) Acronym for Myriad Incompetent Cretins Ruined Our Society Over Failed Technology | 03:44 |
| NeoStrider_ | _Monkey: be nice to me? | 03:44 |
| _Monkey | bugger all, i dunno, neostrider_ | 03:44 |
| NeoStrider_ | damn | 03:44 |
| erstazi | Feral_Kid, are you here? | 03:45 |
| erstazi | I found it | 03:45 |
| erstazi | depends on what OS you are using, what OS? IT2006? | 03:45 |
| pupnik | _Monkey, Microsoft is http://kfmfs.com | 03:46 |
| _Monkey | OK, pupnik. | 03:46 |
| Feral_Kid | erstazi> Yes | 03:47 |
| Feral_Kid | I am using IT2006 | 03:47 |
| NeoStrider_ | Microsoft? | 03:47 |
| _Monkey | i think Microsoft is http://kfmfs.com | 03:47 |
| NeoStrider_ | its me or this site is down? | 03:48 |
| erstazi | Feral_Kid, ok, here is the deal, go to the applications menu (3rd one down on the left) and select that, then goto Tools > Control Panel > Connectivity | 03:48 |
| erstazi | when you select connectivity, a window will come up, select the middle button labeled Connections | 03:49 |
| erstazi | and from there you can delete the wlan or phone or whatever connections that you want to | 03:49 |
| erstazi | Feral_Kid, that is what you were looking for, right? | 03:51 |
| Feral_Kid | erstazi> Actually, I am trying to copy the configurations from MMC card to my flash... So I am I looking for the file that has all of the information listed so I can copy it over.. | 03:51 |
| erstazi | hmm that would be in a file somewhere | 03:51 |
| Feral_Kid | Yep... | 03:53 |
| erstazi | hmm, let me think | 03:53 |
| erstazi | opening x term | 03:54 |
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| Feral_Kid | erstazi> I still haven't been able to find it... | 04:06 |
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| NeoStrider | cya fellows | 04:07 |
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| erstazi | Feral_Kid, I am getting there looking through some debian doc... they handle wlan probably the same way since this is debian based | 04:08 |
| pupnik | i'm seeing external ide drives with their own power now... nice | 04:09 |
| pupnik | *usb ide | 04:09 |
| pupnik | for the usb bus | 04:09 |
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| erstazi | Feral_Kid, I think it has to be in the documentation/wiki or somewhere | 04:16 |
| erstazi | either on debian or maemo docs | 04:16 |
| unique311 | erstazi, did u take a look at the psd | 04:18 |
| Feral_Kid | Looking at debian, it is stored in netwoking-scripts... That doesn't exist... | 04:19 |
| erstazi | unique311, yes | 04:19 |
| unique311 | bad? | 04:19 |
| erstazi | unique311, I only glanced, still working sadly, sorry about that | 04:20 |
| unique311 | k | 04:20 |
| erstazi | where is the GConf path? | 04:27 |
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| erstazi | /etc/gconf I think | 04:31 |
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| erstazi | Feral_Kid, /var/lib/gconf/system/osso/connectivity/ | 04:34 |
| _Monkey | Hmm. No matches for that, erstazi. | 04:34 |
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| erstazi | Feral_Kid, then what I get is, they are in individual files for each connection | 04:35 |
| erstazi | Feral_Kid, they are in their own individual directory for each connection with a %gconf.xml file which are the info/settings for that connection | 04:36 |
| pupnik | Note to the search engines: The thread for porting picodrive sega megadrive genesis emulator to nokia 770 N800 internet tablets http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=64513#post64513 | 04:37 |
| erstazi | pupnik, heh | 04:38 |
| pupnik | need... mor... brainnzzzzzz | 04:39 |
| erstazi | pupnik, I am running out of steam myself | 04:40 |
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| erstazi | Feral_Kid, does that help? | 04:46 |
| erstazi | hello _Handful_ | 04:46 |
| _Handful_ | hello | 04:46 |
| _Monkey | hola, _Handful_ | 04:46 |
| Feral_Kid | erstazi> That was what I was looking for... Thanks... | 04:46 |
| erstazi | np | 04:47 |
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| erstazi | Feral_Kid, what OS you have on your mmc? | 04:56 |
| erstazi | hello Blacksitox | 04:56 |
| Feral_Kid | erstazi> 2006 | 04:56 |
| Blacksitox | heya erstazi ! | 04:57 |
| erstazi | Feral_Kid, if you type the first two characters of a nick and then hit/tap the tab key, it will complete the nick, if its not the correct one, then you can hit/tap tab again | 04:57 |
| Blacksitox | download acelerator for n800? | 04:57 |
| erstazi | Blacksitox, should you download that or ?? | 04:58 |
| erstazi | be back in a bit | 05:00 |
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| Blacksitox | erstazi, yes, something like wget | 05:10 |
| NeoStrider | hello folks | 05:10 |
| NeoStrider | I've got a new alpha 4 RC3 for angstron | 05:11 |
| NeoStrider | anyone not afraid to brick his device? =-P | 05:11 |
| pupnik | sure | 05:11 |
| NeoStrider | I will upload it to the garage in a few minutes | 05:12 |
| NeoStrider | ( just need some testing here) | 05:12 |
| pupnik | ok i have to go out for a while but will try it tonight still | 05:12 |
| NeoStrider | ok =-) | 05:12 |
| NeoStrider | I will leave a notice on the news section | 05:13 |
| NeoStrider | thanks =-D | 05:13 |
| NeoStrider | oops | 05:14 |
| NeoStrider | segfaulted | 05:14 |
| NeoStrider | damn | 05:14 |
| erstazi | Blacksitox, have you checked the repos on maemo.org? | 05:14 |
| erstazi | I mean ApplicationCatalog | 05:15 |
| erstazi | s/repos/ApplicationCatalog | 05:15 |
| Blacksitox | erstazi, yes | 05:15 |
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| erstazi | Blacksitox, I am not sure what there is for opera, but there might be an addon | 05:16 |
| erstazi | or widget as its called I believe | 05:17 |
| Blacksitox | ok thaks erstazi | 05:17 |
| erstazi | Blacksitox, personally, I don't use download accelerators so I cannot give advice on what to use | 05:18 |
| * NeoStrider forgot to change the constants...what a idiot | 05:18 | |
| NeoStrider | now angstron works =-D | 05:20 |
| NeoStrider | I love myself | 05:20 |
| NeoStrider | hahah | 05:20 |
| * NeoStrider is daft as a brush | 05:23 | |
| pupnik | nice | 05:23 |
| pupnik | i bet the DSP could play .mod or .midi music also | 05:24 |
| pupnik | mp3s are okay but take up a lot of space | 05:24 |
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| NeoStrider | midi is not that simple.... | 05:25 |
| * pupnik casts Level 5 ~Summon DSP guru~ in channel | 05:25 | |
| pupnik | yes, but you can also implement only a subset of midi | 05:26 |
| pupnik | instrument, volume, pitch, pan | 05:26 |
| unique311 | any good news on psx? | 05:27 |
| pupnik | no | 05:28 |
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| pupnik | well, i've been playing some of my old games | 05:28 |
| unique311 | wish i could help.. | 05:28 |
| unique311 | but i'm like so into this theming for kagu righ tnow. | 05:28 |
| unique311 | think obssesion might be a good word also for it. | 05:29 |
| pupnik | yes again there's really not much point to it | 05:29 |
| unique311 | i will not be beaten by a freaking theme | 05:29 |
| pupnik | :) | 05:29 |
| unique311 | not sure if you are right about no point to it. | 05:29 |
| unique311 | you got the software GPU to work right | 05:29 |
| * NeoStrider is uploading | 05:30 | |
| erstazi | firing up photoshop | 05:30 |
| unique311 | cool | 05:30 |
| unique311 | i'm in gimp.. | 05:30 |
| pupnik | it compiles and loads into pcsx, but i don't know if it works yet | 05:30 |
| unique311 | what im doing right now is just working on the icons .. | 05:31 |
| pupnik | i had to rip out the onscreen configuration code but that's not a big deal since the config is in a text file | 05:31 |
| unique311 | going to mail those to trevarthan when i get done, and hopefully he can put it together. | 05:31 |
| unique311 | with the colors | 05:31 |
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| unique311 | pupnik, its not working as of now, why? | 05:32 |
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| pupnik | need a cdrom emulator and an input plugin and a sound emulator to load a game | 05:33 |
| unique311 | how is gp2x getting pass all of these needs? | 05:34 |
| pupnik | they compiled all that stuff into the emulator | 05:35 |
| unique311 | did the guy release the source code? | 05:35 |
| unique311 | if thats the case..easily can work on his source code get it to compile on the n800 | 05:36 |
| NeoStrider | clever move: eat up all that gp2x got hehe | 05:36 |
| unique311 | yes | 05:36 |
| unique311 | smc | 05:36 |
| pupnik | there at least two different psx emus on gp2x | 05:36 |
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| unique311 | actually a couple of good ports i got were from gp2x source | 05:37 |
| frob | DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN! | 05:37 |
| pupnik | anyway merging in pieces of emus that weren't written for each other is not something i am looking forward to continuing | 05:37 |
| pupnik | so either pcsx is a simple build, or i won't waste time on it | 05:37 |
| pupnik | drpocketsnes and picodrive would be a better use of time | 05:38 |
| NeoStrider | whats wrong, frob? | 05:38 |
| unique311 | ill toy with gp2x | 05:38 |
| NeoStrider | picodrive...I had it on my N-Gage...it was SO good | 05:38 |
| erstazi | unique311, next time you send, please send it as a zip | 05:40 |
| NeoStrider | angstron in the garage! | 05:40 |
| NeoStrider | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1827/angstron_a4rc3_armel.zip | 05:40 |
| frob | NeoStrider: this damn toolchain insists in using hardware floating point instructions rather than the emulated ones it has been configured with | 05:40 |
| NeoStrider | what are you compiling? | 05:40 |
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| frob | U-Boot | 05:40 |
| NeoStrider | dont know it | 05:40 |
| NeoStrider | you cant implement the fixed pont math? | 05:41 |
| NeoStrider | i did it =-) | 05:41 |
| frob | a boot loader | 05:41 |
| NeoStrider | you can always use mine | 05:41 |
| NeoStrider | GP | 05:41 |
| NeoStrider | GPL | 05:41 |
| pupnik | NeoStrider: do you need to include all the .svn stuff in your angstron distro? | 05:41 |
| frob | your boot loader? | 05:41 |
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| frob | anyway, that's not the point | 05:41 |
| frob | there's a truck of soft fp libraries around | 05:42 |
| frob | I just need to build uboot | 05:42 |
| * NeoStrider means his fixed point math lib | 05:43 | |
| pupnik | why does a boot loader need floating point? | 05:43 |
| NeoStrider | frob, isnt a matter of configuring the makefile? | 05:43 |
| pupnik | beautiful loader screens NeoStrider | 05:45 |
| pupnik | angstron runs, starts and crashes after a few seconds though | 05:45 |
| pupnik | i was able to move around though | 05:45 |
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| NeoStrider | thanks...gimp rules ;-) | 05:46 |
| NeoStrider | pupnik, try running from x-terminal | 05:46 |
| NeoStrider | I dont know why this is happening, but when called from x-terminal, I can play a lot | 05:47 |
| NeoStrider | before the memory finally floods =-P | 05:47 |
| NeoStrider | there is some small leakages...it takes times before the system gets slow | 05:47 |
| NeoStrider | and about the .svn, sorry ...this missed the eye | 05:48 |
| NeoStrider | the .svn dir is HUGE! | 05:48 |
| pupnik | nice - it's playable from xterm here too | 05:49 |
| NeoStrider | to me, it was quite strange that I indeed deleted a bmp file and the size of it doubled! | 05:49 |
| NeoStrider | 770 or N800? | 05:49 |
| pupnik | 779 | 05:49 |
| pupnik | 0 | 05:49 |
| NeoStrider | speed let a lot to be desired yet... | 05:49 |
| NeoStrider | but Im quite satisfied with the visual | 05:49 |
| NeoStrider | also the IA is very dumb right now | 05:49 |
| NeoStrider | but at least, everything is very scriptable | 05:49 |
| pupnik | is it possible to run oprofile kernel on the device? | 05:50 |
| NeoStrider | you will also notice the repetition of level1 as level2. Im still testing some levels to enter in the normal flux of the game | 05:50 |
| NeoStrider | oprofile kernel? | 05:51 |
| NeoStrider | whats that? | 05:51 |
| _Monkey | that is, like, part of the puzzle collection | 05:51 |
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| pupnik | there are different ways to profile with gcc and i don't know how to do it yet | 05:51 |
| NeoStrider | thank you for the insightful comment, _Monkey...you are the smartest member of the channel right now =-P | 05:51 |
| pupnik | it is a puzzle | 05:51 |
| pupnik | wise _Monkey | 05:52 |
| NeoStrider | haahhaha | 05:52 |
| NeoStrider | you mean the way gcc generates the binary code? | 05:52 |
| NeoStrider | like a fatter profile and a thiner one? | 05:52 |
| NeoStrider | or maybe a faster but buggy | 05:52 |
| NeoStrider | or a secure but slower? | 05:52 |
| pupnik | profiling? | 05:53 |
| NeoStrider | yeah...i dont know | 05:53 |
| pupnik | profiling is generating statistics about how much time a program spends in different routines | 05:53 |
| NeoStrider | I just call g++ and focus on the errors =-P | 05:53 |
| NeoStrider | hummm...nice! | 05:53 |
| NeoStrider | whats the name of the package? | 05:53 |
| pupnik | it is a big subject and i don't know much about it - see maemo-devel list and gcc docs | 05:54 |
| pupnik | and debian-arm | 05:54 |
| pupnik | i did manage to generate profile data on the 770 and use that in a second pass of gcc, but i don't know if it was correct what i did | 05:55 |
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| NeoStrider | let me guess: good for optimizations? | 05:55 |
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| pupnik | yes there are two ways it is useful | 05:56 |
| NeoStrider | the system uses it for heuristicly diciding when to do inline and stuff like that | 05:56 |
| pupnik | 1) you can parse the output data to generate graphs and statistics for your manual optimizing | 05:56 |
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| pupnik | and 2) the compiler can use the data to try to automate optimizations, from the gp2x developer forum some say they got +15% speed | 05:57 |
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| NeoStrider | I want that 15% on angstron! | 05:57 |
| NeoStrider | I NEED it! | 05:57 |
| pupnik | yes | 05:57 |
| NeoStrider | tell me the name of the tool | 05:57 |
| NeoStrider | please | 05:57 |
| pupnik | gcc | 05:57 |
| NeoStrider | ¬¬ | 05:57 |
| NeoStrider | how to use gcc to do this? | 05:58 |
| NeoStrider | ("good questions deserve better answers") | 05:58 |
| pupnik | -fprofile-arcs -- for the initial compile | 05:58 |
| pupnik | -fbranch-probabilities -- to take account of the information written after the run | 05:58 |
| pupnik | there is also | 05:58 |
| pupnik | -fprofile-generate and -fprofile-use | 05:58 |
| derf | man gcc | 05:59 |
| NeoStrider | yeah | 05:59 |
| pupnik | derf might know something real :) | 05:59 |
| NeoStrider | thats exactly what im doing right now | 05:59 |
| pupnik | i heard -fprofile-arcs only was useful for x86, but that might be wrong | 05:59 |
| derf | I don't bother with profiling. | 05:59 |
| NeoStrider | pupnik, being able to manually optimize it is always good enough | 06:00 |
| derf | It assumes that you can come up with sufficient test cases that exercise your code like real users would. | 06:00 |
| NeoStrider | after all, its all about neumann machines =-P | 06:00 |
| derf | Which turns out to be very, very hard. | 06:00 |
| NeoStrider | not on a closed arena 3D game =-P | 06:00 |
| derf | Well, okay, but those are not the kind of things I write. | 06:00 |
| NeoStrider | derf: do you write stuff that really needs it? | 06:01 |
| derf | I write stuff where performance is, in fact, very critical. | 06:01 |
| NeoStrider | I mean...you sound like being a good programmer...yours apps must be optimized enough already | 06:01 |
| NeoStrider | hum...nice to know it | 06:01 |
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| * NeoStrider swallows his tongue | 06:01 | |
| pupnik | NeoStrider: you could also use 400x240 and Xsp for speedup | 06:02 |
| derf | And I don't mean I don't bother with profiling altogether, just not the compiler's automatic branch prediction stuff. | 06:02 |
| NeoStrider | I know, but this stuff is too nasty | 06:02 |
| derf | I would much rather just eliminate the branch. | 06:02 |
| NeoStrider | I remember playing hedgehop and having to remove the battery pack becouse I pressed home acidentaly | 06:03 |
| derf | Then it can't be mis-predicted. | 06:03 |
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| NeoStrider | derf: I dont know much about what you write, but what can vary on my app is what the player sees, but this is merely a case of the size of the rendering pipeline queue | 06:04 |
| NeoStrider | or maybe what portals the the camera can see through | 06:04 |
| NeoStrider | but its always that case | 06:04 |
| derf | Well, the ARM is somewhat different than a normal desktop processor. | 06:04 |
| NeoStrider | I know...N-Gage hacking told me that | 06:05 |
| NeoStrider | my 3D on it was SOOOO slow | 06:05 |
| derf | It has built-in condition codes that can speculatively execute small branches and then conditionally write back the results at the end. | 06:05 |
| NeoStrider | lets not forget thumb...does maemo use thumb? | 06:05 |
| derf | So, for example, small branches involve no pipeline stall, whether they were predicted correctly or not. | 06:05 |
| NeoStrider | derf, im not so worries about all this small stuff | 06:06 |
| NeoStrider | im just worried on where, generally , is my penalities | 06:06 |
| derf | Yeah, profiling is good for finding the 10% of your code that is taking up 90% of the time. | 06:06 |
| NeoStrider | im not a expert, neither a good programmer...im just worried about the game | 06:06 |
| derf | Well, the only way to become those things is practice. | 06:07 |
| NeoStrider | yeah...I remember from my N-Gage days...a game running nice on desktop is NOTHING | 06:07 |
| derf | And don't forget to read other people's code. | 06:08 |
| derf | They'll teach you many things you never thought of. | 06:08 |
| NeoStrider | thats a point im missing... | 06:08 |
| pupnik | there is a great book about efficient coding called 'Programming Pearls' - i don't have my copy handy | 06:08 |
| NeoStrider | ive been so worried about BZK for about 3 years that I never worked on anything other that it | 06:08 |
| pupnik | but Neo is right about doing high level optimizations first | 06:08 |
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| derf | NeoStrider: You don't have to work on other projects to read their code. | 06:09 |
| NeoStrider | yeah...Douglas Comer once wrote to aproach stuff on levels | 06:09 |
| derf | It's definitely much easier to get big improvements at higher levels. | 06:09 |
| unique311 | trevarthan, you around? | 06:09 |
| NeoStrider | derf: I know...but not even looked into its code...except for small bits | 06:09 |
| NeoStrider | yeah...I got a dramatic speed up when I improved the rendering pipeline, adding a "polygon merger" | 06:10 |
| NeoStrider | on the tesselation step | 06:10 |
| NeoStrider | before that, angstron wouldnt be even playable | 06:10 |
| NeoStrider | and I know Im still missing something on how I treat time | 06:11 |
| NeoStrider | maybe I need to do things on separated threads | 06:11 |
| derf | That's almost surely a recipe for disaster. | 06:11 |
| NeoStrider | multithreading? | 06:12 |
| derf | Yes. | 06:12 |
| NeoStrider | hahhaa | 06:12 |
| NeoStrider | yeah...but if it works, may improve speed a lot | 06:12 |
| NeoStrider | make framerate more consistent | 06:12 |
| pupnik | doubtful | 06:12 |
| derf | On a single CPU? | 06:12 |
| derf | Not likely. | 06:12 |
| derf | In fact, it will almost surely make it worse. | 06:13 |
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| NeoStrider | process-switch-penality? | 06:13 |
| derf | Also communication penalty. | 06:13 |
| pupnik | I think your main speedup will come by limiting the general-purposeness of your 3d engine | 06:13 |
| derf | That's certainly the approach Doom and Descent took. | 06:13 |
| pupnik | there's nothing in the 'tron' gameplay that requires a do-everything engine | 06:13 |
| derf | They worked just fine on my P90. | 06:13 |
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| derf | I do remember Quake was a little slow on my friend's Packard Bell P66. | 06:14 |
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| NeoStrider | actually ,pupnik, angstron is a small project from a bigger thing | 06:14 |
| NeoStrider | BZK is my true big project | 06:15 |
| NeoStrider | the game engine | 06:15 |
| NeoStrider | Doom ran on 386s | 06:15 |
| NeoStrider | my next project is a logo enviroment | 06:15 |
| derf | Texture rendering with an 8-cylce inner loop. | 06:16 |
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| NeoStrider | it will be of no use...but Its gonna be fun | 06:16 |
| * derf <3 Michael Abrash. | 06:16 | |
| NeoStrider | derf: im not much into texture rendering | 06:16 |
| NeoStrider | If im going to use it, I will use from SDL_gfx | 06:16 |
| derf | Yeah, you kids these days don't know how good you got it. | 06:17 |
| NeoStrider | hahaha | 06:19 |
| NeoStrider | Im very fond to retro-looking games | 06:19 |
| NeoStrider | driller, silpheed, hard drivin' | 06:19 |
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| pupnik | i think Id hired Abrash at some point | 06:22 |
| * pupnik has two of his books | 06:22 | |
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| pupnik | i didn't finish them though, cga/ega and x86 were just so ugly | 06:23 |
| * NeoStrider swallow'd Abrash books | 06:23 | |
| NeoStrider | we got so many screen modes that I got lost | 06:24 |
| pupnik | by the way NeoStrider to ensure turning off pixel doubling - even in a segfault, i start the game with a shellscript that runs game, and then runs 'undouble' exe | 06:25 |
| pupnik | so even if game does not exit cleanly, xsp gets turned off right away | 06:25 |
| NeoStrider | hum...nice idea | 06:26 |
| pupnik | once i did this i never had problems | 06:26 |
| NeoStrider | but what if the use press home? | 06:26 |
| pupnik | then i have to ssh-in and kill the process | 06:26 |
| pupnik | that is a problem yes | 06:26 |
| NeoStrider | thats a huge problem | 06:27 |
| NeoStrider | the screen gets garbled | 06:27 |
| NeoStrider | it scared the user | 06:28 |
| pupnik | i think the sdl game has to detect if it no longer has window focus | 06:28 |
| NeoStrider | if I could do that, I could have lots of speed | 06:28 |
| pupnik | then turn it off | 06:28 |
| NeoStrider | I dont know how easy is to do that | 06:28 |
| pupnik | pressing home should make sdl game go into pause mode | 06:28 |
| NeoStrider | some of that windowing funcs from SDL doesnt work well | 06:28 |
| pupnik | i will look into it | 06:28 |
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| NeoStrider | I had some ugly experiences with that | 06:31 |
| unique311 | NeoStrider, retro games huh | 06:32 |
| unique311 | can your next deviation be pacman...please | 06:32 |
| NeoStrider | sure | 06:33 |
| NeoStrider | not hard either | 06:33 |
| NeoStrider | indeed, I had this im mind some time ago | 06:33 |
| NeoStrider | but 2D? | 06:33 |
| unique311 | ok how about this.. | 06:33 |
| unique311 | if you do so, you are my a god to me..not too much of a god..just a semi type god | 06:34 |
| NeoStrider | hahaha | 06:34 |
| NeoStrider | I will do a look on the odds | 06:34 |
| NeoStrider | you will be the first to know | 06:34 |
| NeoStrider | (sometimes I feel I abuse on my little english knowledge...if im saying cr*p, please, let me know) | 06:35 |
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| NeoStrider | how about a 3D game with 2D gameplay? | 06:36 |
| NeoStrider | you know...a 3D game, but you move and play like the old 2D one | 06:37 |
| unique311 | i will do a look on the odds.. | 06:37 |
| unique311 | not sure what you meant by that.. | 06:37 |
| NeoStrider | thanks | 06:38 |
| NeoStrider | I will look on the probabilities and how easy it can be | 06:38 |
| NeoStrider | (better? I feel dumb) | 06:38 |
| unique311 | better | 06:39 |
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| unique311 | I'll do some research, and see if it can be done...would be better(er) | 06:39 |
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| NeoStrider | this (you guys not understanding me) happen too often? | 06:40 |
| unique311 | no | 06:41 |
| unique311 | your english is perfect man. | 06:41 |
| pupnik | like Abe's Oddysey | 06:41 |
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| pupnik | 2D platform/puzzle game with 3d characters | 06:41 |
| NeoStrider | yeah! | 06:41 |
| NeoStrider | or subzero mythologies | 06:42 |
| NeoStrider | (N64) | 06:42 |
| erstazi | NeoStrider, honestly, when I first started to talk to you, I thought you were a native english speaker | 06:42 |
| Luria | hey | 06:43 |
| unique311 | erstazi, i got into computers in 03 | 06:43 |
| erstazi | hello Luria | 06:43 |
| erstazi | ah, I have had computers around me probably my whole life | 06:44 |
| NeoStrider | thanks erstazi! | 06:44 |
| NeoStrider | I do my best | 06:44 |
| unique311 | i thought the same NeoStrider | 06:44 |
| Luria | anyone have a link for a deb of kismet for the n800? | 06:44 |
| unique311 | but then you told me you were brazilian right | 06:44 |
| NeoStrider | I've been using computers since I was 8 (now Im 22...) and doing games since I was 11 ;-) | 06:44 |
| NeoStrider | yeah | 06:44 |
| NeoStrider | Rio de Janeiro | 06:45 |
| unique311 | city of gods | 06:45 |
| NeoStrider | =-D | 06:45 |
| unique311 | best movie... | 06:45 |
| NeoStrider | yeah...that movie Rocks | 06:45 |
| unique311 | actually my favorite movie... | 06:45 |
| NeoStrider | the actor is now very famous | 06:45 |
| unique311 | you must check this out. | 06:45 |
| unique311 | Z? | 06:45 |
| unique311 | or the camera dude | 06:45 |
| erstazi | this was one of the first computers I remember being on: an IBM 5150 http://tinyurl.com/2ozu3p | 06:45 |
| NeoStrider | camera | 06:45 |
| _Monkey | camera is, like, so poor that the app thinks the "blurness" is movement | 06:45 |
| Luria | freeciv? | 06:45 |
| NeoStrider | Z you mean Zé Pequeno? | 06:46 |
| unique311 | computer looks older than me | 06:46 |
| unique311 | yeah | 06:46 |
| NeoStrider | ("little joe") | 06:46 |
| erstazi | I am 24 | 06:46 |
| NeoStrider | well friends | 06:47 |
| NeoStrider | I got to go | 06:47 |
| unique311 | my face on Z's body http://www.myspace.com/unique0nez | 06:47 |
| NeoStrider | almost 1 AM here | 06:47 |
| unique311 | 28 or 29 over here | 06:47 |
| unique311 | i stopped counting at 25 | 06:47 |
| erstazi | haha | 06:47 |
| erstazi | unique311, where are you from? | 06:48 |
| NeoStrider | unique311 , hilarious! | 06:48 |
| unique311 | I'm from Haiti...been living in New York city all my life though.. | 06:48 |
| erstazi | awesome | 06:49 |
| unique311 | did that myspace in 2 days | 06:49 |
| NeoStrider | cya fellows | 06:49 |
| unique311 | had to draw all my top frieds.. | 06:49 |
| * pupnik plays pac-man on n770 | 06:49 | |
| NeoStrider | thanks for the testing | 06:49 |
| unique311 | pupnik you like | 06:49 |
| unique311 | lie* | 06:49 |
| NeoStrider | I will evaluate the pacman thing =-) | 06:49 |
| NeoStrider | bye | 06:49 |
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| pupnik | nope - took about 10 minutes to build | 06:49 |
| erstazi | unique311, thats crazy, you hand drew them? | 06:50 |
| unique311 | i have a wacom graphire 4 pad | 06:50 |
| unique311 | makes life easier | 06:50 |
| erstazi | I won't put pacman on my 770, my wife will not let me have it back | 06:50 |
| pupnik | problem is the levels are all designed for 800x600 | 06:50 |
| unique311 | photoshop erstazi | 06:50 |
| erstazi | ah ok | 06:50 |
| erstazi | not bad at all | 06:50 |
| erstazi | better than I can draw | 06:50 |
| unique311 | the source pupnik..please.. | 06:50 |
| unique311 | pretty sure it can be modified to fit | 06:51 |
| pupnik | sure | 06:51 |
| pupnik | apt-get source njam | 06:51 |
| unique311 | i tried that | 06:51 |
| unique311 | it didn't compile for me. | 06:51 |
| unique311 | hmmm | 06:51 |
| unique311 | strange | 06:51 |
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| pupnik | works fine here... just needs smaller levels... http://pupnik.de/njam_1.25-3_armel.deb | 06:52 |
| pupnik | it's not really the same without the pacman levels and wokka-wokka sound though | 06:53 |
| pupnik | *cough* "MAME" *cough* | 06:53 |
| erstazi | pupnik, heh | 06:53 |
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| unique311 | mame | 06:54 |
| erstazi | wb nomis | 06:55 |
| unique311 | is that fast on the 800 or 770 | 06:55 |
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| pupnik | i gotta say njam does look fun though. you can edit levels in-game. there's only one more change needed and that's the size of the default levels, and making some new levels for it | 06:55 |
| pupnik | or keep the level size (probably wiser) and resize all the bitmaps | 06:56 |
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| pupnik | great little project for the tablets... game compiles out of the box | 06:57 |
| pupnik | unique311: maybe you should set up a gregale scratchbox environment | 06:57 |
| frob | YEEEEEEEEEES | 06:58 |
| frob | it worked | 06:58 |
| frob | right at 6am | 06:58 |
| frob | :D | 06:58 |
| frob | good night | 06:58 |
| pupnik | cu frob | 06:58 |
| pupnik | early to bed, early to rise | 06:58 |
| pupnik | and 6 AM is early to bed! | 06:59 |
| pupnik | speaking of which i'm out | 06:59 |
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| erstazi | night pupnikafk | 07:00 |
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| rhys | do i have to make a password for user to use dropbear? | 07:09 |
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| erstazi | rhys, I prefer openssh to dropbear | 07:18 |
| rhys | im used to openssh, but it wasnt on any of my repos. | 07:18 |
| erstazi | oh | 07:20 |
| erstazi | what tablet do you have? | 07:20 |
| rhys | n800 | 07:20 |
| erstazi | it should be | 07:20 |
| erstazi | did you look on maemo.org? | 07:20 |
| erstazi | rhys, do a search on maemo.org for openssh and you want IT2007 | 07:21 |
| rhys | kkthen | 07:23 |
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| rhys | can i change the root password? | 08:28 |
| rhys | or will that break things | 08:28 |
| rhys | just need something so ssh can login, and i can setup rsa keys and the like so much easier | 08:29 |
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| erstazi | rhys, sorry about that, had to run | 08:33 |
| erstazi | rhys, did you install becomeroot? | 08:33 |
| erstazi | also, you can use xterm on your n800 | 08:34 |
| erstazi | but when you install becomeroot, you can just type: sudo gainroot | 08:34 |
| erstazi | I suggest changing your passwords by typing: passwd user | 08:34 |
| erstazi | and passwd root | 08:34 |
| rhys | yea. i know all of that. have all of that. ssh on a keyboard is a hellva lot easier though | 08:34 |
| erstazi | of course | 08:34 |
| erstazi | I would change the root password | 08:35 |
| rhys | right. thats what i was asking, will that break things? | 08:35 |
| erstazi | the reason they give you the warning is because you can break things, not root | 08:36 |
| rhys | yes? no? will changing passwords ruin any softwarE? | 08:36 |
| erstazi | no | 08:36 |
| erstazi | just make sure you know what you are doing | 08:36 |
| rhys | oh. of course you can break things. thats the power of root. | 08:36 |
| erstazi | rhys, if you got a grip on *nix commands | 08:36 |
| erstazi | then you are good | 08:36 |
| rhys | erstazi, i just want it so i can ssh into it to set up my RSA keys. oh yes. quite. dont run rm -r /* | 08:37 |
| rhys | :) | 08:37 |
| erstazi | yeah | 08:37 |
| erstazi | but *definitely* change the root password, its a security issue, all they have to do is ssh root@youripaddress and then type in rootme | 08:37 |
| erstazi | and they got your system | 08:37 |
| rhys | hmm. actually they cant. i just tried that | 08:38 |
| rhys | didnt work | 08:38 |
| erstazi | ah | 08:38 |
| erstazi | ok | 08:38 |
| rhys | check /etc/passwd. theres a hash there | 08:38 |
| erstazi | yeah | 08:38 |
| rhys | even before changing it | 08:38 |
| rhys | ohh hell yes. :D keyboard on the nokia! | 08:38 |
| erstazi | bluetooth? | 08:39 |
| erstazi | I might get one for my 770, haven't decided yet | 08:39 |
| rhys | wifi from this lappy. what i mean is ssh, i get a keyboard in nokias terminal. ty. | 08:39 |
| rhys | i want one... | 08:39 |
| rhys | a bt keyboard | 08:39 |
| rhys | for class | 08:39 |
| erstazi | ah yeah | 08:39 |
| rhys | my lappy is a 8-10lb goliath. | 08:39 |
| erstazi | the virtual keyboard on the nokia can be a pain but you get use to it | 08:40 |
| rhys | aye. for typing its pretty nice. i can IM and type emails, posts and the like rather quickly. | 08:40 |
| erstazi | well, the reason I have my 770 is because my toshiba's keyboard connector (where it connects to mobo) is screwed so I need something to be mobile | 08:40 |
| rhys | the only problem is the funny symbols you use in a terminal | 08:40 |
| erstazi | yeah | 08:40 |
| erstazi | I wish I could remap them | 08:41 |
| rhys | |, tab, :wq, etc. | 08:41 |
| erstazi | probably can, but no time to mess with that | 08:41 |
| rhys | bah. ssh works. | 08:41 |
| rhys | i wana put wesnoth on it | 08:42 |
| rhys | and right now i need to restore certian files from my storage card into /home/user | 08:43 |
| erstazi | I have been doing some scratchbox stuff | 08:43 |
| rhys | someone has a browser update on their mirror that if you update to breaks the browser. it flickers when you change windows and wont stop, as well as removing options | 08:43 |
| erstazi | nice | 08:43 |
| rhys | im not sure where its at, because i have so many repos enabled. apt-get might tell me | 08:43 |
| erstazi | hard to say | 08:44 |
| rhys | i had to reflash it, so im restoring certian things. i didnt trust the backup utility | 08:45 |
| erstazi | rhys, thats what I want to avoid heh | 08:46 |
| rhys | hmm. im looking at BT KBs. ~100$ | 08:47 |
| erstazi | especially desktop environments | 08:47 |
| erstazi | ebay? | 08:47 |
| erstazi | craigslist even | 08:47 |
| rhys | yepyep | 08:47 |
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| rhys | what do you mean expecially DEs? | 08:47 |
| erstazi | hello nhdezoito_adrian | 08:47 |
| erstazi | crashing | 08:47 |
| erstazi | or breaking I mean | 08:47 |
| rhys | my use is in a chair in a lecture hall. nothing but a little writing desk. | 08:48 |
| erstazi | ugh, my one year old son is up | 08:48 |
| erstazi | slapping my head | 08:48 |
| erstazi | brb | 08:48 |
| rhys | poor guy | 08:49 |
| erstazi | wife couldn't just lay him down in his crib | 08:49 |
| erstazi | haha | 08:49 |
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| erstazi | he beats me up all the time | 08:49 |
| erstazi | hi Vertoo | 08:50 |
| erstazi | ok I am out ttyl | 08:50 |
| Vertoo | for some reason, my vnc viewer can only connect to like half my computers, despite the fact that their setup is identical except my mac. anyone had trouble with that before? | 08:51 |
| Vertoo | hey erstazi | 08:51 |
| _Monkey | erstazi is rusty on porting to a different arch | 08:51 |
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| pwille | Anyone using the auto-away feature of Pidgin? Why does it not set me availible again when i'm no longer idle? | 09:13 |
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| Vertoo | i wish i could just select which packets i want installed and it does them all at once itead of one at a time over an hour | 09:14 |
| erstazi | back | 09:14 |
| erstazi | Vertoo, I never had that problem with vnc | 09:14 |
| erstazi | are you sure the port is open? | 09:15 |
| Vertoo | ya, they are all local machines and the configguration is the same across the network. | 09:16 |
| erstazi | hmm | 09:16 |
| erstazi | Vertoo, thats odd | 09:17 |
| erstazi | what are the OSes? | 09:17 |
| Vertoo | win xp pro x4 machines. 2 work. and 1 mac os x they are all im the same workgroup and erything. windows firewall is off and has vnc as an exception on all machines. avg firewall has vnc as an exception | 09:21 |
| erstazi | ok | 09:23 |
| erstazi | hmmm | 09:23 |
| erstazi | sounds odd | 09:24 |
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| `0660 | Vertoo, have you tried wireshark? | 09:27 |
| Vertoo | nomis, i would think that any vnc program should work the same. | 09:27 |
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| erstazi | Vertoo, have you dried NX? | 09:28 |
| erstazi | s/dried/tried | 09:28 |
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| erstazi | Vertoo, http://nomachine.com | 09:29 |
| Luria | mmmm nx | 09:30 |
| Luria | good stuff | 09:30 |
| Luria | (yes, coming in the middle of a conversation) | 09:31 |
| erstazi | heh | 09:31 |
| erstazi | how are you Luria | 09:31 |
| timelyx | good morning world | 09:33 |
| timelyx | what do people use as browser start pages? | 09:33 |
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| `0660 | in n800 or in desktop? | 09:35 |
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| erstazi | timeless, depends one what you desire for a start page, but most people grab either google.com or yahoo.com or a custom start page | 09:36 |
| erstazi | some like igoogle | 09:36 |
| erstazi | hi adoyle | 09:36 |
| erstazi | I mean, adoyle_ | 09:37 |
| erstazi | bloody tab | 09:37 |
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| Vertoo | what can you use as tab on the full screen kb? | 09:44 |
| erstazi | Vertoo, many things, do you mean on the browser or an irc client? | 09:46 |
| erstazi | on the browser will go through links, anchors and inputs.. | 09:46 |
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| erstazi | hello trashed | 09:48 |
| trashed | hey | 09:48 |
| trashed | getting lagged to death | 09:48 |
| Vertoo | irc | 09:49 |
| Vertoo | just cause i dot like to type with a stylus | 09:50 |
| Vertoo | sio i use the fullscreen kb and i cant just tab your name that i know of with it | 09:51 |
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| roope | there is no tab on it. | 09:52 |
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| Vertoo | wait ro, i wonder | 09:53 |
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| MobileSim | Is there anything along the lines of a "new 770 user" or new maemo user FAQ? | 09:55 |
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| * MobileSim just came across a reference to a herring repository, and has no idea whether to add it or not. | 09:56 | |
| `0660 | there is a user manual? :) | 09:56 |
| roope | yeah, those kinds of things. | 09:56 |
| roope | i still have no idea what 'bora' is. except a car. | 09:57 |
| MobileSim | The printed one? Or an updated online one? | 09:57 |
| MobileSim | Stuff for the 800, from what I can tell. | 09:57 |
| MobileSim | Or OS2007 in general. | 09:57 |
| MobileSim | Maemo 3 maybe? Still fairly new myself, so dunno. | 09:58 |
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| roope | the wiki has plenty of info, but | 10:00 |
| roope | i'm not sure how arranged it is then. | 10:01 |
| `0660 | MobileSim, the printed one | 10:01 |
| MobileSim | Ah, yeah, that doesn't even mention Herring though, I'm sure. | 10:02 |
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| Vertoo | ro/ | 10:03 |
| roope | yes. i suggest checking the wiki. | 10:03 |
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| Vertoo | roope, dang, it wont do it in fullscreen kb mode. but i changed the key to make it easier. i just hit enter, then down, then enter again to go back to fullscreen | 10:06 |
| Vertoo | roope, guess thats the easiest it gets till i get a bt kb | 10:07 |
| Vertoo | brb. installed stuff. gonna restart | 10:08 |
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| timelyx | erstazi: i'm trying to figure out how much people would object to use just having google as the default start page | 10:11 |
| timelyx | hi roope | 10:11 |
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| timelyx | the official start page has the advantages of having very heavy content free/slow loading content with a single link to another similar page | 10:12 |
| erstazi | timelyx, yeah, I changed the default Nokia_770.html to google.com | 10:13 |
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| roope | Hi. | 10:16 |
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| Vertoo | how do you save the file and quit the editor in vi? | 10:48 |
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| timelyx | <esc>:wq | 10:50 |
| c0ffee | or <esc>:x | 10:54 |
| c0ffee | or <esc>ZZ | 10:54 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:22 |
| keesj | very well , if you really want | 11:25 |
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| cy- | anyone have luck with kismet on n800? | 11:31 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:38 |
| pupnikafk | i was wrong about the dpad, it is* possible to get diagonal motion with it | 11:40 |
| disq | morning | 11:40 |
| _Monkey | aloha | 11:40 |
| pupnikafk | cy-: yes works fine | 11:40 |
| guardian | hmm | 11:40 |
| pupnikafk | oh sorry, n770 here | 11:40 |
| cy- | pupnikafk: :/ damn | 11:40 |
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| pupnikafk | the xsp doubling scaler looks beautiful. i hope to learn someday how it is interpolating the pixels | 11:41 |
| guardian | i mounted my n800 using sshfs outisde of scratchbox in /mnt/n800, now is there a way i could symlink so that this directory is available inside scratchbox ? | 11:41 |
| inz | guardian, symlinks won't work, but mount --bind should | 11:42 |
| guardian | well | 11:42 |
| guardian | --bind doesn't with sshfs :( | 11:42 |
| inz | it doesn't? | 11:42 |
| inz | ahh, fuse | 11:43 |
| inz | then I guess you just need to mount it elsewhere :/ | 11:43 |
| guardian | well in fact doing it right into /scratchbox/users/guardian/home/guardian/n800 worked | 11:44 |
| timeless | hi jaffa | 11:46 |
| maddler | 'morning | 11:48 |
| pupnikafk | fullscreen SDL apps need to be modified to suspend and disable xsp pixel doubling when the 'Home' key is pressed | 11:50 |
| guardian | is there a deb that installs the n800 theme on the sdk ? | 11:52 |
| timeless | you should be able to make one | 11:54 |
| timeless | i think the instructions at http://webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/ should be portable to such a task | 11:54 |
| timeless | (they're written for capturing locale files, but they don't really know what they're cpaturing) | 11:54 |
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| timeless | generally speaking nokia doesn't provide normal debs to the outside world for things that ship as part of the flash | 11:55 |
| pupnikafk | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/12pt-14pt-os2007-themes/ | 11:55 |
| timeless | geaaru: fwiw, somemone internally complained about the localhost stuff | 11:55 |
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| timeless | however, they posted a patch to the browser, even though the bug is fundamentally in ICD | 11:55 |
| timeless | you can view logs from last week (?) to see my discussion about it | 11:56 |
| * timeless should try to rewrite that patch as a patch against icd and post it | 11:56 | |
| guardian | ok | 11:57 |
| guardian | thx timeless | 11:57 |
| guardian | and pupnikafk :) | 11:58 |
| geaaru | timeless: ok, i see log about browser. ty | 11:58 |
| pupnikafk | now i have no problems with the home key while running my xsp sdl app... | 11:59 |
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| disq | timeless: i've been getting some 100% cpu usage (and unresponsiveness) in the browser lately (opera engine) | 12:01 |
| timeless | flash enabled? | 12:01 |
| disq | flash disabled | 12:01 |
| timeless | note that i really can't do much w/ flash | 12:01 |
| timeless | i can't say what nokia will do w/ opera, but if you were to bet, it's pretty safe to bet against anything being done to it | 12:01 |
| disq | happened three times this morning. maybe a race condition | 12:01 |
| Luria | sorry if someone answered this before - i was massively lagged - | 12:02 |
| disq | it's not about opera, looks like browser ui | 12:02 |
| disq | i should switch to microb engine for a few days and try to reproduce tho | 12:02 |
| timeless | disq: ah, that's different, i believe we have -dbg packages up | 12:02 |
| Luria | is there an n800 deb for kismet? | 12:02 |
| timeless | if we don't, we can fix that | 12:02 |
| timeless | otoh, w/o symbols of some sort for opera, things tend to break in most cases | 12:02 |
| disq | hmm | 12:03 |
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| cy- | Luria: http://kismetwireless.net/code/kismet-svn-devel-n800.deb | 12:07 |
| cy- | Luria: no guarantee that it works tho | 12:07 |
| cy- | Luria: I am fighting with it now as well :P | 12:07 |
| Luria | thanks | 12:07 |
| Luria | i wis | 12:07 |
| Luria | oops | 12:07 |
| Luria | im not even pentesting | 12:08 |
| Luria | i just want snr numbers to get flakey connections working | 12:08 |
| Luria | does the deb break anything or need dev dependancies? | 12:10 |
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| MobileSim | Anyone know if there's a version of Plankton for the 770 anywhere? | 12:15 |
| MobileSim | tigert's blog says 800 only, but I figure someone must've tried to backport it by now. | 12:16 |
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| Luria | crap - opera is crashing every two minutes | 12:24 |
| cy- | Luria: I dunno what the deb pkg requires | 12:26 |
| cy- | probably libpcap and wirelesstools or something | 12:27 |
| Luria | cy- i expected as much | 12:27 |
| Luria | was hesitant to install wireless tools | 12:27 |
| Luria | but i guess ill bite the bullet | 12:28 |
| cy- | gmm | 12:29 |
| Luria | tho maybe after i backup | 12:30 |
| Luria | i mean a real backup | 12:30 |
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| Luria | :-) | 12:30 |
| Luria | btw is anyone having problems witj crashing - ie disappearing backgrounds and applets ? | 12:32 |
| cy- | hmm | 12:32 |
| cy- | that kismet pkg wants to use /media/mmc1 | 12:33 |
| Luria | sorry for my typing - on the thumbboard ;-) | 12:33 |
| Pekka_E | I am setting up scratchbox using Nokia scripts and intltool is causing head-ache | 12:33 |
| Pekka_E | dpkg-build can not find path and if I add PATH =$PATH:/scratchbox/devkits/doctools/bin/ | 12:34 |
| Pekka_E | make can not find libs | 12:34 |
| Pekka_E | I am trying to compile maemo- mapper | 12:35 |
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| red-zack | re, hi guys. | 12:40 |
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| Jaffa | http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/9093/10117/Nokia-invite-hints-music-downloads.phtml would be very cool if the N800 is a fully supported platform for it | 12:41 |
| cy- | Luria: Hmm | 12:47 |
| cy- | Hard to tell if it is working properly | 12:47 |
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| Tili | does anybody know if portaudio would compile on maemo | 12:54 |
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| disq | inz: http://projects.o-hand.com/libgconf-bridge | 13:47 |
| inz | disq, yeah, I noticed it | 13:48 |
| inz | disq, but there's certain problems with registering gobjects and being a plugin | 13:48 |
| disq | i was actually looking to see if they had any job openings | 13:48 |
| disq | ah, true | 13:48 |
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| cy- | ugh, what the fuck | 13:50 |
| cy- | all of a sudden my sd card won't mount | 13:50 |
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| cy- | or it will only mount in the mmc1 slot, but I cannot write to it.. I/O error | 13:51 |
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| alterego | Weird,. | 13:53 |
| alterego | How big is the card? | 13:53 |
| cy- | all kinds of I/O errors in dmesg | 13:53 |
| cy- | 1gb | 13:53 |
| cy- | I guess I could format it | 13:53 |
| cy- | or try to.. | 13:53 |
| cy- | I can find how to do that.. heh | 13:55 |
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| czheng1 | Test | 14:19 |
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| cy- | yay | 14:45 |
| cy- | formatted it, works now | 14:45 |
| cy- | wtf that was wack | 14:45 |
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| cy- | or not | 15:01 |
| cy- | fuck, wtf | 15:02 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 15:21 |
| _Monkey | Guten Tag, sbaturzio! | 15:21 |
| kenne | Hejsa | 15:22 |
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| cy- | man that's fucked up | 15:31 |
| cy- | ruined my sd card :/ | 15:31 |
| cy- | ohwell, kismet running fine now | 15:31 |
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| Toma- | Following this guide, dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine host architecture" in the buildpackage step... what am i doing wrong? :( Im getting "http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_2.2_Tutorial.html#Building-applications | 15:35 |
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| adoyle | erstazi - you pinged me earlier (in the middle of the night for me...) | 15:49 |
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| tbf | hmm: http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/ <- seems nokia doesn't target the german market? this would explain why you cannot find the n800 in shops here | 16:28 |
| trevarthan | ugh. I didn't realize that I'd have to support people who know nothing about linux when I wrote the A2DP support into Kagu. :) | 16:28 |
| timeless | a2dp? | 16:29 |
| _Monkey | a2dp is, like, working here http://www.guardiani.us/index.php/N800_custom_packages#Bluetooth_ALSA and is good. :) If you want a nice frontend GUI for a2dp after following the instructions on that page, ask me about kagu | 16:29 |
| trevarthan | This guy is having trouble with the `cp` command of all things. And then I get yelled at for not having a proper installer. | 16:29 |
| trevarthan | At least I'm trying to help him. I could just ignore the guy. geez. | 16:29 |
| timeless | you have my sympathies, although it's worse if you write a browser :) | 16:30 |
| trevarthan | I bet | 16:30 |
| timeless | people ask us why the devices reboot or their wifi basestation dies or ... | 16:30 |
| timeless | thankfully we haven't had too many reports of siblings getting measles | 16:30 |
| trevarthan | right, because the browser is the internet, after all. :) these people have no business using computers. | 16:31 |
| trevarthan | no, that's not fair. | 16:31 |
| disq | trevarthan: ignore him from now on, don't let it get to you. | 16:32 |
| timeless | stick up a lucy sign. advice 10 cents | 16:32 |
| Wizzard | tbf, i bought n800 in Latvia, im sure you can find it in DE :) | 16:32 |
| disq | trevarthan: any word on the new sprites.png unique311 is working on? | 16:32 |
| timeless | http://www.amazon.com/Lucys-Advice-Charles-M-Schulz/dp/0689854730 | 16:33 |
| trevarthan | I mean, it's freaking `cp`. All you have to do is copy the line and paste it in xterm. how hard is that? | 16:33 |
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| disq | copying from the browser? it's pretty hard | 16:33 |
| timeless | depends on how broken selection is | 16:33 |
| disq | (hehe) | 16:33 |
| timeless | often it's very hard | 16:33 |
| timeless | :| | 16:33 |
| trevarthan | disq: you catch the thread about unique's theme it yesterday? | 16:33 |
| trevarthan | s/it// | 16:33 |
| infobot | trevarthan meant: disq: you catch the thread about unique's theme yesterday? | 16:33 |
| disq | last i remember his gmail acct was blocked for some reason | 16:34 |
| trevarthan | timeless: yeah man, get that fixed in the freakin' browser! :) | 16:34 |
| disq | i got the pink pixels and AA bit | 16:34 |
| trevarthan | oh. he sent me a mock up yesterday. | 16:34 |
| timeless | did i provide a picture of that problem? | 16:34 |
| trevarthan | he's having trouble with the colorkey concept. | 16:34 |
| trevarthan | mostly because photoshop defaults to anti-aliasing everything, I think. | 16:35 |
| disq | probably | 16:35 |
| disq | colorkeys can be too technical for some people, especially now that we're living in a 32bit RGBA world | 16:36 |
| trevarthan | Yeah, I was a little annoyed that I had to use them. I tried RGBA, but it was just too slow. | 16:36 |
| disq | hopefully he'll get used to it tho | 16:36 |
| disq | i imagine it would be | 16:37 |
| trevarthan | I haven't had to use colorkeys since win98 days | 16:37 |
| disq | half-life 1 engine days here. | 16:37 |
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| timeless | http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhmd4jxt_43htq827 | 16:38 |
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| trevarthan | maemo-myth has too many freakin' deps. anyone got a .deb? | 16:44 |
| disq | ah trev, i debianized and compiled libmokoui2 yesterday | 16:45 |
| trevarthan | sweet | 16:45 |
| trevarthan | got a demo app yet? | 16:45 |
| disq | though writing python module/bindings is a totally different issue. asked in gimpnet #pygtk, the channel was idle, then i left | 16:45 |
| renatofilho | trevarthan: the current version of maemo-myth is deprecated a new version is coming | 16:45 |
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| disq | didn't put together a demo yet | 16:46 |
| trevarthan | yeah, ok. It's not like there has been a release, so I don't think you can deprecate anything yet. :) | 16:46 |
| NeoStrider | good morning people | 16:46 |
| trevarthan | disq: no sample apps? | 16:46 |
| trevarthan | NeoStrider: Good Morning! | 16:46 |
| disq | trevarthan: it's a subclass of GtkContainer. i'm guessing any widget you put on it becomes finger scrollable. | 16:47 |
| trevarthan | that sounds cool | 16:47 |
| trevarthan | hey, btw. Does anyone know if there is a way to detect whether or not our window is in the foreground from python? | 16:48 |
| NeoStrider | disq, what this is good for? | 16:48 |
| NeoStrider | maybe I just did get it | 16:48 |
| trevarthan | I'd like to enter the extended idle loop when kagu does into the background. | 16:48 |
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| trevarthan | NeoStrider: inertial/kinetic scrolling via finger movements. | 16:48 |
| trevarthan | NeoStrider: it's a replacement for hard to use scroll bars. | 16:49 |
| disq | trevarthan: there's an application_top call i should check | 16:49 |
| NeoStrider | "it's a replacement for hard to use scroll bars." now we are speaking =-) | 16:49 |
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| trevarthan | NeoStrider: if you want a quick (but kinda crappy) example, check out the kagu media player on maemo.org | 16:50 |
| disq | checked, it's not it | 16:50 |
| NeoStrider | 770 friendly? | 16:50 |
| disq | 770 friendly. only tested with one item though. | 16:51 |
| NeoStrider | time to do more tests =-) | 16:51 |
| disq | great | 16:51 |
| trevarthan | let us know what you find. | 16:51 |
| Jaffa | disq: any chance it could be a patch to Gtk+ to make *everything* finger scrollable by default? | 16:51 |
| trevarthan | NeoStrider: you might also check out UKMP on maemo.org. They use kinetic scrolling too. | 16:51 |
| disq | Jaffa: not sure. possibly. move gtkcontainer as gtkcontainer_real and rename fingerscrollthingy as gtkcontainer | 16:52 |
| trevarthan | Jaffa: that would be hecka sweet. | 16:52 |
| NeoStrider | UKMP didnt worked here... | 16:53 |
| NeoStrider | hey I need python! | 16:53 |
| NeoStrider | where can I get the debs? | 16:53 |
| disq | you need python2.5 and also pygame | 16:53 |
| trevarthan | yeah. you need python 2.3 for UKMP, python 2.5 for Kagu. | 16:53 |
| disq | pymaemo.garage.maemo.org should do it | 16:53 |
| trevarthan | python2.5? | 16:53 |
| trevarthan | python2.5 is at pymaemo.garage.maemo.org! | 16:53 |
| trevarthan | python2.5? | 16:54 |
| _Monkey | python2.5 is at pymaemo.garage.maemo.org! | 16:54 |
| trevarthan | python? | 16:54 |
| _Monkey | python is a real pain in the rear when it comes to unicode. | 16:54 |
| trevarthan | lol | 16:54 |
| disq | lol | 16:54 |
| trevarthan | I remember that conversation | 16:54 |
| NeoStrider | hahahhahahha | 16:54 |
| disq | trev, i think that's your quote btw | 16:54 |
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| trevarthan | forget python | 16:54 |
| _Monkey | trevarthan: I forgot python | 16:54 |
| trevarthan | python is at pymaemo.garage.maemo.org! | 16:55 |
| trevarthan | python? | 16:55 |
| _Monkey | i think python is at pymaemo.garage.maemo.org! | 16:55 |
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| disq | _Monkey: don't think, know | 16:55 |
| _Monkey | disq: sorry... | 16:55 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan: exactly. Doubt it would work in the browser, tho' | 16:56 |
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| erstazi | trevarthan, is it true that either 770 or an n800 cannot use png-24 efficiently and its prefered to use png-8? | 16:57 |
| disq | the browser can be messy depending on how they implemented the panning | 16:57 |
| trevarthan | I would love disq long time if he got that working. :) | 16:57 |
| erstazi | s/prefered/preferred | 16:57 |
| trevarthan | erstazi: which application are we talking about? | 16:58 |
| disq | i have no intention of patching/compiling gtk+-maemo and trying to get it running on the device :P | 16:58 |
| * NeoStrider is getting on the nerves with those .install | 16:58 | |
| erstazi | trevarthan, any actually, but specifically working on the theme for karu last night | 16:58 |
| trevarthan | disq: jerk | 16:58 |
| disq | lol | 16:58 |
| disq | it's pointless when nokia people are talking about how it's bad to use a different build of gtk and trying to get us synced with upstream for maemo4.0 | 16:59 |
| trevarthan | erstazi: I don't know about other apps, but with kagu you need to be using an RGB png, not an RGBA png. No alpha channel. | 16:59 |
| NeoStrider | there is only the .install | 16:59 |
| Jaffa | disq: you could submit it as a Gtk+ compile-time switch :) | 16:59 |
| NeoStrider | no debs for me =-( | 16:59 |
| erstazi | trevarthan, ah I see | 16:59 |
| Jaffa | Then Nokia wouldn't need to fork. | 16:59 |
| erstazi | trevarthan, thats the issue | 16:59 |
| trevarthan | erstazi: use the colorkey for transparency. | 16:59 |
| erstazi | ok | 16:59 |
| erstazi | I will work on it more tonight, that makes life easier, I got work to do | 17:00 |
| trevarthan | k. thanks! | 17:00 |
| disq | i'd prefer getting libmokoui2 known and distributing/supporting it | 17:00 |
| trevarthan | disq: yeah, we need to make some example apps first, then if people love them it'll likely find it's way upstream. | 17:00 |
| disq | gotta get python bindings | 17:01 |
| erstazi | also, I am going to try to port some things tonight that are on the http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/Software_Directory list | 17:01 |
| timeless | http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhmd4jxt_43htq827 => trevarthan | 17:01 |
| NeoStrider | sorry guys no tests here...I dont have wifi here | 17:01 |
| timeless | can someone please explain haf to me? | 17:01 |
| disq | we could reimplement it in python but it's kinda unhealthy to fork at this point | 17:01 |
| erstazi | becasue pupnik (+afk) told me so | 17:01 |
| trevarthan | disq: would it be easier to write a simple example C application first? Send me the .deb for openmokoui, then let me play with it? :) | 17:01 |
| timeless | is haf hosted on stage? | 17:02 |
| trevarthan | I just want to see what it can do. you're a C gtk expert, right disq? | 17:02 |
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| trevarthan | timeless: what? I'm not sure what you're asking, or what that page is. | 17:02 |
| timeless | you asked something about fixing selection,. no? | 17:03 |
| timeless | that's my description of how selection or panning or <pick your favorite tap behavior> is hard | 17:03 |
| trevarthan | I was mostly joking around. But yeah, it's a little difficult to use. | 17:03 |
| timeless | a little is a bit of an understatement | 17:04 |
| trevarthan | new firmware seemed to make it a little easier. but maybe I just got lucky | 17:04 |
| disq | trevarthan: i have a few years of experience with it but i'm no expert :) | 17:04 |
| disq | anyway check your mail | 17:04 |
| renatofilho | disq, i have a simple example of use libmokoui2, if you want, I can send to you. | 17:05 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan/disq: any test app I'd love to play with to give my feedback on. I find UKMP's kinetic scrolling not quite right (and I'm not sure why). Would love to play with an alternative implementation. | 17:05 |
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| trevarthan | Jaffa: install kagu. I freely admit that it sucks just as much as UKMP though. | 17:06 |
| disq | trevarthan: i like kagu better :P | 17:06 |
| trevarthan | maybe a little less, as there are no false clicks... not sure | 17:06 |
| trevarthan | my biggest complaint is that kagu gets swapped out sometimes and the scrolling hangs for a bit. that is uber annoying. | 17:07 |
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| trevarthan | that's my fault for letting the memory bloat so much though | 17:07 |
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| * lardman thinks Python is great! | 17:08 | |
| trevarthan | yeah. it's nice. I just wish it didn't use so much ram. | 17:08 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan: I've only got UKMP installed to demo kinetic scrolling to people ;-) | 17:08 |
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| lardman | It great the way you can go from idea to application so easily | 17:09 |
| lardman | Reminds me of OPL on the Psion | 17:09 |
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| timeless | ok, i've posted https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=503&action=edit | 17:12 |
| trevarthan | Jaffa: you installing kagu? | 17:12 |
| timeless | so people can use "browser" instead of "/usr/bin/browser" | 17:12 |
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| inz | timeless, see #55873 | 17:14 |
| lardman | Does pygtk allow one to handle mouse/pointer clicks/doubleclicks on a textbox? | 17:15 |
| ccharles | Hi! if I install OS2007 on the n770, what sdk do i use? maemo 3.1 or 2.2 ? | 17:15 |
| timeless | inz: blah | 17:15 |
| inz | ccharles, I would guess 3.0 | 17:15 |
| timeless | inz: why are people filing those things in internal? | 17:15 |
| ccharles | inz: thanks | 17:15 |
| timeless | it's open code | 17:15 |
| ccharles | just that the documentation seems a little sparse on this | 17:16 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan: does Kagu have the inertial scrolling too, now? | 17:16 |
| NeoStrider | ccharles: I have seen my game (compiled with sdk 2.2) working on N800s | 17:16 |
| trevarthan | It always has. I think konttori might have gotten the idea from kagu. he just released first. | 17:16 |
| disq | Jaffa: it had it from the start? | 17:16 |
| NeoStrider | so I guess SDK 2.2 will do | 17:16 |
| timeless | inz: that patch is scary | 17:17 |
| inz | timeless, thanks | 17:17 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan: apologies then! | 17:17 |
| NeoStrider | s/seen/heard of/ | 17:17 |
| timeless | way too complicated | 17:17 |
| timeless | and it has memmove! | 17:17 |
| timeless | scary, scary | 17:17 |
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| trevarthan | Jaffa: we've got a binary release up on maemo.org though. quick 5 second install. try it. | 17:17 |
| trevarthan | well, 5 minute install if you don't have python2.5 yet. | 17:17 |
| NeoStrider | timeless: you said about /usr/bin/browser and just browser | 17:18 |
| NeoStrider | there is a diference? | 17:18 |
| timeless | yes | 17:18 |
| timeless | browser alone won't work | 17:18 |
| NeoStrider | s/there is/is there | 17:18 |
| timeless | because haf sucks | 17:18 |
| timeless | :) | 17:18 |
| timeless | inz: your patch is almost certainly bad | 17:18 |
| NeoStrider | thats strange | 17:18 |
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| NeoStrider | when I start my game from the icon, the crashes about 5 seconds later | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan: I've gt Python, just no network connection (it appears) | 17:19 |
| NeoStrider | using ps -a, I get it listed as /usr/bin/angstron | 17:19 |
| NeoStrider | when I start from terminal, it is solid rock | 17:19 |
| trevarthan | Jaffa: ummm... how the hell are you talking to me then? :) | 17:19 |
| inz | timeless, at least it works ;) | 17:19 |
| NeoStrider | and ps -a list it as just angstron | 17:19 |
| NeoStrider | any idea? | 17:19 |
| timeless | inz: hey mine works too, for a smaller domain :) | 17:19 |
| timeless | inz: your patch has tabs, one space indentation, and some other unfortunates :( | 17:20 |
| * timeless tries to figure out what the memmoves actually do | 17:21 | |
| trevarthan | disq: http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/class-gtkwindow.html#method-gtkwindow--has-toplevel-focus | 17:21 |
| * NeoStrider wonders if anyone paid atention to what he said... | 17:22 | |
| timeless | no :) | 17:22 |
| NeoStrider | ok =-p | 17:22 |
| timeless | inz: so, err. what are you memmoving, all the args? | 17:22 |
| disq | trevarthan: if we're using gtk, then sure :P | 17:23 |
| inz | timeless, yes | 17:23 |
| trevarthan | disq: yeah, I just released we need a window object for that. | 17:23 |
| timeless | why? | 17:23 |
| timeless | they're all pointers, right? | 17:23 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan: well, no network conn on my N800 - wireless appears to be down. A single dep on python2.5-runtime? I'll copy the deb across | 17:24 |
| disq | Jaffa: isn't python2.5-runtime a meta package? | 17:25 |
| trevarthan | Jaffa: unfortunately not. | 17:25 |
| trevarthan | python? | 17:25 |
| _Monkey | python is probably at pymaemo.garage.maemo.org! | 17:25 |
| disq | Jaffa: we need python2.5, pygtk, python-dbus, python-osso, python-pygame, python-gobject.. i think that covers it | 17:26 |
| Jaffa | I think I've got most of them. | 17:26 |
| trevarthan | copy over the kagu deb and give it a try then? | 17:26 |
| inz | timeless, the strings need to be copied there so ps shows the right name | 17:26 |
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| Jaffa | trevarthan/disq: do I need to run the scanner before the player? | 17:28 |
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| disq | Jaffa: the player will take care of things for you, but yeah it'll automatically run the scanner if it's your first run | 17:29 |
| Jaffa | Cool | 17:29 |
| madam | hello all. i'm writing a program and i'd like it to minimize to the sidebar when i press a hardware button. gtk_window_iconify() makes the window disapper, that's right, but its icon does not appear on the sidebar. what do you think? | 17:29 |
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| disq | madam: you should use hildon_window and hildon_app classes instead of gtkwindow | 17:30 |
| madam | disq: the window is an instance of HildonWindow, which is-a GtkWindow if i'm right | 17:31 |
| NeoStrider | madam: are running it directly or you installed it and you run it from the icon? | 17:32 |
| disq | madam: yes. it could be the service file being missing, or osso not being initialized | 17:32 |
| madam | NeoStrider: it's launched directly from the command prompt | 17:32 |
| NeoStrider | disq: had the tought of the same thing I did | 17:33 |
| madam | disq, NeoStrider: other applications like the web browser behave correctly; it's not like osso is not initialized. maybe i should set my program can_hibernate() ? | 17:34 |
| NeoStrider | madam: im working on a SDL app that doesnt do "can_hibernate()" and shows up on the taskbar | 17:35 |
| disq | madam: more like, you should call osso_initialize() at startup. after gtk_init and before gtk_main seems like a good place | 17:35 |
| NeoStrider | its just a matter of a service file properly configured | 17:36 |
| disq | madam: follow the maemo development tutorials at maemo.org and compare your code :) | 17:36 |
| lardman | Does gtk.Entry have its own window? Trying to work out whether I can add a clicked signal to it | 17:36 |
| disq | lardman: there should be a class tree/diagram somewhere in gtk docs. clicked could work, why not just try | 17:37 |
| lardman | disq: Good point, can;t atm as at a WinXP box | 17:37 |
| lardman | disq: Plus it's not listed in the docs as being a valid signal | 17:38 |
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| Ryback_ | hi destino | 17:39 |
| MoRpHeUz | destino: =) | 17:40 |
| NeoStrider | hi destino | 17:40 |
| lardman | disq: Ah, could be a masked signal, will give it a try | 17:40 |
| destino | hi folks | 17:40 |
| disq | lardman: trying a focused signal (not sure if that's the signal's name?) could be better for the purpose though | 17:41 |
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| NeoStrider | gtg | 17:44 |
| NeoStrider | cya fellows | 17:44 |
| lardman | disq: I've seen that signal. What i want is to alter the text selection within the textbox depending on whether it's a single or double click, and the cursor location | 17:44 |
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| lardman | disq: To be exact, I'm editing equations and want to be able to highlight (and then replace) all, or just parts between operators (+-*/ etc.) or brackets depending on the clicks | 17:45 |
| disq | ah | 17:47 |
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| madam | disq: minimizing still doesn't work as expected; tried osso_initialize() both before and after gtk_init(). the function returns a valid context. any further idea? | 17:50 |
| disq | does minimizing using the provided minimize button on the top-right work correctly? | 17:50 |
| disq | maybe it's deiconify's fault | 17:50 |
| disq | or iconify rather | 17:50 |
| madam | disq: nope, it doesn't | 17:51 |
| disq | strange | 17:51 |
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| madam | disq: maybe i should set an icon for my program? | 17:51 |
| disq | i have no further ideas, i suggest you dive into the maemo tutorial to investigate | 17:52 |
| disq | iconless programs work ok | 17:52 |
| madam | disq: thank you and NeoStrider anyway; hope to meet soon again | 17:53 |
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| trevarthan | disq: this is a nice little optimization to aid in multi-tasking: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/changeset/285 | 17:54 |
| disq | ooh! our first rev after the 1.0.1 roll | 17:55 |
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| disq | good idea btw | 17:55 |
| trevarthan | :) yeah. couldn't bring myself to work last night. I'm getting over a bit of burn out. | 17:55 |
| disq | understandable | 17:56 |
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| _Handful_ | does anyone knows why for example when trying to install ukmp, I'm not able to click on " open " (after the one click install link is touched) ? and all other one click installs gives me the ability to do it? Is it lack of some dependencie or could be a error on ukmp packages? | 18:01 |
| _Handful_ | *if I try to install from the file it just fails (icon is on the menu) but no real application linked on the .desktop | 18:02 |
| _Handful_ | strange thing : / I will ask this on garage .. | 18:02 |
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| disq | _Handful_: it's a configuration problem with the server. probably the mime type is wrong | 18:10 |
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| _Handful_ | unm, I imagine that, but I should be able to install from file right? | 18:10 |
| disq | yes | 18:10 |
| _Handful_ | but don't wory I will take a look at it later | 18:10 |
| disq | i don't worry about ukmp. :P | 18:11 |
| _Handful_ | well, I'm just taking a look =) not only at it but also kagu and others =) | 18:14 |
| _Handful_ | I'm quite happy to see these python applications =) | 18:15 |
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| trevarthan | dev: any luck with SIP and python? | 18:20 |
| dev | trevarthan: no time yet, had the 0.4.0 release of my UPnP framework yesterday | 18:21 |
| trevarthan | oh, well, congrats on 0.4.0! | 18:22 |
| trevarthan | got a link to the framework? | 18:22 |
| dev | https://coherence.beebits.net | 18:22 |
| dev | thx | 18:22 |
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| trevarthan | cool. anyone interested in integrating that with kagu? | 18:23 |
| trevarthan | (I'm not. I can never get UPnP to work for me) | 18:24 |
| trevarthan | (but I know lots of people love it) | 18:24 |
| disq | cool framework | 18:24 |
| dev | trevarthan: it is not that difficult, if you know what to do (as with most of the things) | 18:24 |
| trevarthan | dev: my problem always has and will be the fact that I use MythTV, and I'd need to transcode everything on the fly. | 18:25 |
| trevarthan | well, not for audio. | 18:25 |
| trevarthan | but I usually don't use my n800 for audio at home. I've got mythtv and a big sound system for that. | 18:25 |
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| dev | trevarthan: it has a few features, that come quite handy -> https://coherence.beebits.net/wiki/CoherenceMediaRenderer | 18:27 |
| dev | look at the local store thing there | 18:27 |
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| _Handful_ | the mythTV upnp server is quite :" temperamental" | 18:27 |
| dev | and UPnP is not just about playing something, controlling is much more fun | 18:27 |
| trevarthan | dev: Coherence does slide shows? That's cool. I'd like a good slide show on my n800. not sure if mythtv publishes my images via UPnP though. | 18:30 |
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| dev | the MediaRenderer does the slideshow (on the N800) | 18:30 |
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| trevarthan | _Handful_: tell me about it. I have to disable it, otherwise, when I turn my Xbox 360 on, mythbackend's CPU goes through the roof and stays there until I restart it. I think they fixed that after 0.20, but I'm running 0.20. | 18:32 |
| dev | trevarthan: there will be a .deb this evening or tomorrow | 18:32 |
| _Handful_ | yes I know | 18:32 |
| _Handful_ | we have a quite of trouble hacking around mythtv | 18:32 |
| _Handful_ | but did you saw morpheuz works on that? streaming from mythtv/ etc ? | 18:32 |
| trevarthan | they need to rewrite mythtv in python. everyone would be happier. :) | 18:32 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: yeah. doesn't work too well yet. | 18:33 |
| _Handful_ | yeah, but can be improved with collaboration =) | 18:33 |
| trevarthan | MoRpHeUz: did you ever run the NUV issue by the gmyth guys? | 18:33 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: I told them about this... | 18:34 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: I talked to the mythtv devs about gmyth, and they said that the only thing for it is to wait. They're currently working on making it possible to store multiple encodings of a given recording. That'll make the whole gmyth thing easier. | 18:34 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: hopefully they'll have a look on that... | 18:34 |
| MoRpHeUz | btw, kulve could get the setup working..it was a silly mistake from him... | 18:35 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: then they can implement frontends that do transcoding on the fly, streaming, etc, and cache everything. | 18:35 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: my experience with mythtv's devs are that they are a little bit complicated and not well organized (just like their code hehe) | 18:35 |
| trevarthan | yeah. I wouldn't call MythTV a "mess". But it's definitely not clean either. | 18:36 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: exactly.. | 18:36 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: they have this plan about doing transcoding on the fly since the beginning of the year. | 18:36 |
| trevarthan | takes like 30 minutes to compile. That's the worst. And you've got to run the same version client as the server. Makes it impossible to develop for in my house because I've only got one server and it's production. | 18:36 |
| * Jaffa hopes the MythTV app for Maemo is suitably open that I could hack in a Freevo backend. | 18:36 | |
| MoRpHeUz | but they just talk hehe | 18:36 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: it's already open...(gmyth, gmyth-streamer and a demo app is on the way) | 18:37 |
| * trevarthan hopes that someone writes a python frontend for mythtv. That would be ideal. | 18:37 | |
| trevarthan | I try not to touch C/C++ with a ten foot poll if I can help it. | 18:38 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: some guys like GreyFoxx, xris are good developers there.. | 18:38 |
| Jaffa | MoRpHeUz: yeah, I'd love to see some protocol documentation - and the website seemed a little confusing (once it's using MokoUiScroll, though, I'll want that app :-)) | 18:38 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: that's what I tried to do with gmyth-streamer... | 18:38 |
| trevarthan | yeah. I was talking to xris. I think he's the original author. | 18:38 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: documenting mythtv's protocol is a p* in the a* hehe | 18:38 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: it's 100% experimenting since mythtv's wiki is too old | 18:39 |
| kulve | yes, I got the transcoding working with mencoder | 18:39 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: xris is the original author of myth-web | 18:39 |
| trevarthan | My guess is that they need to learn how to compartmentalize things better. | 18:39 |
| kulve | gmencoder doesn't work, but probably because I have too old gst | 18:39 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: Chutt is the maintainer ... | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | MoRpHeUz: so it is using the MythTV-proprietary protocol between the N800 client and the server? | 18:40 |
| trevarthan | ah | 18:40 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: mythtv's protocol is not proprietary.. | 18:40 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: have you ever take a look on mythtv's source code ? | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | It's proprietary to MythTV and, as you've just said, not documented | 18:40 |
| trevarthan | yeah. A few times. Mostly when I was hacking MythGame back in the 0.19 days though. | 18:41 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: got your point.. | 18:41 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: it uses myth's protocol through gmyth...gmyth abstracts this for you | 18:41 |
| trevarthan | I also looked into the xvmc code when I was trying to get bob deint working with HDTV. I gave up. Is horribly b0rked. | 18:41 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: I tried to help them with some code, but it's really a mess.. | 18:42 |
| Jaffa | MoRpHeUz: But I want to use Maemo-Myth (or whatever it will be called) with a non-Myth backend. gmyth won't do much here, will it, unless it also provides the ability to write a Myth-compatible server | 18:42 |
| Jaffa | (specifically, Freevo) | 18:42 |
| trevarthan | I've also had to go in a few times debugging SQL problems. That's no fun either. | 18:42 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: exactly...freevo's guys are easier to deal and they want people to help them... | 18:42 |
| trevarthan | Is freevo written in C too? | 18:43 |
| * Jaffa 's had lots of Freevo patches accepted. Very happy with it, and I found MythMusic too painful to stick with MythTV | 18:43 | |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: gmyth-streamer is 100% written in python...you can get the idea from there to use on Freevo... | 18:43 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan: nope, you'll love it: Python :) | 18:43 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: already talked about this with disch (free | 18:43 |
| MoRpHeUz | =/ | 18:43 |
| trevarthan | how does it compare to mythtv? same feature set? what's it missing? | 18:43 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: freevo's maintainer | 18:43 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: freevo = 100% python =) | 18:43 |
| Jaffa | MoRpHeUz: Freevo 2's maintainer. I'm not holding my breath for that, TBH :-/ | 18:44 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: hehe | 18:44 |
| MoRpHeUz | that's the point | 18:44 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa, trevarthan: they are trying to make freevo 2 a lot better than freevo 1 | 18:44 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan: Recording scheduling isn't quite as nice, but it's much less resource intensive IMHO | 18:44 |
| MoRpHeUz | and then it'll be a really "heavy competitor" for mythtv | 18:44 |
| Jaffa | MoRpHeUz: yeah, but it's typical SSS - it's taking forever, hence the restart of the Freevo 1.x branch. | 18:44 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: it's because they need people | 18:45 |
| Jaffa | Freevo 2's plans look fantastic, but it's slow going due to a lack of hackers. | 18:45 |
| trevarthan | yuck. SDL. | 18:45 |
| MoRpHeUz | they are just a few (3 ??) developers to rewrite almost everything | 18:45 |
| Jaffa | MoRpHeUz: indeed. | 18:45 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: =) | 18:45 |
| trevarthan | Doesn't Mythtv use QT? | 18:45 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: yeah | 18:45 |
| trevarthan | seems like QT is a better choice, to me. | 18:45 |
| trevarthan | Actually, GTK would be excellent too, but QT is probably easier to theme. | 18:45 |
| MoRpHeUz | mythtv is a really mess (it works but...): they have a lot of small applications and too much replicated code... | 18:46 |
| * Jaffa would consider giving MythTV another go if there was a much better music playing plugin | 18:46 | |
| Jaffa | (Not just UI, but quality) | 18:46 |
| MoRpHeUz | this is why I wrote gmyth-streamer...easy to implement more inputs (it has file, dvd and mythtv), transcoders handles (mencoder and gstreamer actually) and streams everything through http..so it's easy for the n800 to receive the stream | 18:47 |
| kulve | is it possible to play the music in the background? | 18:47 |
| trevarthan | Jaffa: I think that's one of mythtv's major problems. It's difficult to develop addons for. | 18:47 |
| kulve | while watching images, or something | 18:47 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: take a look at this http://labs.morpheuz.eng.br/blog/04/04/2007/prison-break-freedom-for-your-videos/ | 18:47 |
| trevarthan | kulve: no. | 18:47 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: I agree with you | 18:47 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: too hard to develop addons and more features for mythtv | 18:48 |
| kulve | trevarthan: that's the main reason I use xmms for that.. Otherwise mythtv might be the only app needed on my mediabox.. | 18:48 |
| trevarthan | kulve: I like it because it works well with an IR remote. I just wish it wasn't so hard to hack. | 18:48 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: it happens in part because the mess on the code and in part because of it's maintainer's arrogance | 18:49 |
| trevarthan | Kagu would actually make a really nice replacement for mythmusic, IMO. But I don't see that happening as it's python and myth is C. | 18:49 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: you can do that =) | 18:49 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: that project of a mediacenter for xbox is 100% written in python and they have a mythtv plugin | 18:50 |
| MoRpHeUz | you just need to know the protocol | 18:50 |
| trevarthan | yeah, I could run it from mythgame. :) | 18:50 |
| MoRpHeUz | =) | 18:50 |
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| MoRpHeUz | hold on, I will be back soon | 18:51 |
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| timeless | hey | 18:52 |
| timeless | can anyone suggest a couple of big name web apps that work w/ microb but not opera (other than the google suite)? | 18:52 |
| timeless | does youtube actually work better in microb? | 18:53 |
| * timeless doesn't really use flash sites | 18:53 | |
| trevarthan | do I need to be in red pill mode to install screen? | 18:54 |
| Jaffa | MoRpHeUz: sounds great; if gmyth-streamer (you need a better name ;-)) supports different backends, I'll happily do the Freevo one when some of the test apps are available. Presumably the Maemo client doesn't need to talk to the backend (MythTV/Freevo), it just queries gmyth-streamer about available media? | 18:57 |
| Jaffa | MoRpHeUz: hmm, no - I'm wrong? http://gmyth.sf.net/ suggests that the Maemo frontend talks directly to MythTV & gmyth-streamer (what's gst-plugins-mythtv?) | 18:58 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: http://www.netvibes.com/ IIRC | 19:05 |
| trevarthan | Jaffa: last time I checked, gmyth-streamer still has some major problems. Usually you can only stream once or it will throw an exception or hang mplayer open. Did you get that fixed MoRpHeUz? | 19:06 |
| trevarthan | Jaffa: it's basically just a thin wrapper around mencoder. It start mencoder, manages the process, and streams mencoder's STDOUT over HTTP. | 19:07 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan: I see. | 19:08 |
| * Jaffa was thinking of writing something similar :) | 19:09 | |
| trevarthan | it's a great idea. The problem is that mencoder doesn't want to die sometimes. And telling mencoder not to print status messages on stdout doesn't work for some codecs (i.e. divx). So, basically, mencoder kinda sucks. | 19:10 |
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| trevarthan | The other problem is that gmyth doesn't strip out all the NUV crap from the stream, so at best you get skipping sometimes. At worst, it just won't play on the n800. The end result is usually codec dependant. | 19:11 |
| trevarthan | For example, by default, gmyth streams mpeg1. :) why? because mpeg1 appears to be the least fragile and the n800 will actually stream it. | 19:11 |
| trevarthan | hardy ideal though. | 19:12 |
| trevarthan | s/hardy/hardly/ | 19:12 |
| infobot | trevarthan meant: hardly ideal though. | 19:12 |
| trevarthan | for now, I just use 770encode.pl and have done with it. streaming is too problematic at the moment, mostly because mythtv and mencoder are buggy. | 19:13 |
| Jaffa | Indeed. | 19:13 |
| pupnikafk | mpeg1 has less state info | 19:15 |
| pupnikafk | or statefulness | 19:15 |
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| red-zack | what about a 2gb mmc card and n770, working fine? | 19:23 |
| pupnik | min3 is | 19:23 |
| pupnik | kingston i think | 19:23 |
| red-zack | i have a 2gb card, some trouble | 19:24 |
| Jaffa | MPEG1 should also be lower CPU intensive to encode (compared with DivX et al) | 19:24 |
| red-zack | btw, hi pupnik ;) | 19:24 |
| pupnik | servus | 19:24 |
| pupnik | i think it's awesome that mplayer can handle even xvid now | 19:25 |
| red-zack | but i love to travle around the city, spying for wlans | 19:25 |
| pupnik | hehe | 19:25 |
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| red-zack | dsniff portable for 770? | 19:26 |
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| red-zack | hr, yes it is, but "missing install" | 19:28 |
| red-zack | :( | 19:28 |
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| syntux | Hey, just got my nokia n800! what next :D | 19:33 |
| kulve | play mahjong | 19:33 |
| syntux | lol | 19:33 |
| Luria | flash it | 19:34 |
| _Monkey | Firmware and associated utilities are available from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com | 19:34 |
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| syntux | :-) How to upgrade my software ? | 19:34 |
| trevarthan | syntux: Install Kagu! | 19:34 |
| Luria | kagu meh | 19:34 |
| trevarthan | install canola? | 19:35 |
| syntux | darn, key locked and I can't unlock it lol | 19:35 |
| red-zack | first install "xterm" | 19:35 |
| red-zack | =) | 19:35 |
| Luria | canola is better | 19:36 |
| kulve | syntux: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=60205&postcount=5 | 19:36 |
| trevarthan | syntux: defaults to 12345, I think | 19:36 |
| trevarthan | Luria: I'm hurt. | 19:36 |
| Luria | kagu is a great way to kill your battery ;-) | 19:36 |
| trevarthan | doesn't canola kill it just as fast? | 19:37 |
| Luria | oh i like the inertial scrolling | 19:37 |
| trevarthan | I don't care. you're dead to me. | 19:37 |
| Luria | and kagu shows more promise | 19:37 |
| Luria | but | 19:37 |
| kulve | syntux: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/ | 19:37 |
| syntux | lovely | 19:38 |
| syntux | thank you folks, you rocks! | 19:38 |
| kulve | syntux: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationrepositories/ | 19:38 |
| Luria | when i want to use the n800 as an mp3 player | 19:38 |
| kulve | syntux: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationmanagerredpillmode/ | 19:38 |
| pupnik | you will find that the dac is surpassed by 40 euro mp3 players | 19:38 |
| Luria | battery life is king, and ive found kagu more cpu intensive | 19:39 |
| pupnik | well not 100% sure about that, but s/n on my 770 is somewhere around 60 db | 19:39 |
| Luria | pupnik, no doubt. | 19:39 |
| trevarthan | Luria: that's a valid argument. How much better is canola? I ask because they both use SDL behind the scenes (which sucks with battery) | 19:39 |
| Luria | gah one sec | 19:39 |
| kulve | syntux: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/codenames/ | 19:39 |
| Luria | much better | 19:41 |
| Luria | on bt keyboard | 19:41 |
| Luria | couldnt hold a conversation with the stylus :-) | 19:41 |
| trevarthan | yeah. I like the thumb kb better. now, finish telling me how much my baby sucks and why? | 19:42 |
| trevarthan | :) | 19:42 |
| Luria | trevarthan, i know they both are sdl based, and i havent done any testing, but anecdotally, i find the cpu and battery draw higher on kagu than canola... and im not a canola fan | 19:43 |
| Luria | mostly observed by running both in the back ground | 19:43 |
| Luria | and how quickly my machine shuts off at 2 bars remaining :-) | 19:44 |
| Luria | other thing about kagu - and perhaps i am an idiot - how do i get it to play all tracks on random? or something other than the selected album | 19:45 |
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| syntux | guys, is it safe to flash it ? | 19:45 |
| Luria | and please, dont think i hate kagu... i havent run canola since - but i have gone back to the inbuilt player :-/ | 19:46 |
| Luria | syntux, its necessary :-) | 19:46 |
| Luria | just have a full charge | 19:46 |
| kulve | syntux: it's safe | 19:47 |
| Luria | and do the windows auto install, its painless | 19:47 |
| kulve | and the backup/restore things works nicely even though it doesn't restore the apps you have installed | 19:47 |
| syntux | I'm doing it from linux. | 19:47 |
| trevarthan | Luria: playlist functionality is in progress-ish. I think disq is interested in doing the random stuff. | 19:47 |
| kulve | syntux: yeah, linux is the way :) | 19:47 |
| Luria | syntux, its a bit of a pita | 19:48 |
| syntux | heh | 19:48 |
| syntux | ok, I'm downloading the flasher. | 19:48 |
| trevarthan | Luria: as far as background'ing the process goes, I just noticed that problem yesterday and I committed a patch today that will reduce CPU usage dramatically when kagu is in the background: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/changeset/285 | 19:48 |
| Luria | trevarthan, i know its a work in progress :-) | 19:48 |
| kulve | syntux: after flashing it's in the same state as when you bought it. Except newert sw | 19:48 |
| Luria | trevarthan, was it still trying to refresh/rerender? | 19:49 |
| trevarthan | Luria: Yes. It was still rendering everything in the background. Any other gripes? I'm here to listen. | 19:49 |
| Luria | those are the big ones | 19:49 |
| trevarthan | OK. Let me add a ticket for Random play mode. Maybe disq will be interested in jumping on that one. | 19:50 |
| Luria | err... also... | 19:51 |
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| Luria | the music scanner... its not a happy camper | 19:51 |
| trevarthan | oh yeah? what's the problem? | 19:51 |
| trevarthan | Here's the random playmode ticket: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/ticket/7 | 19:52 |
| Luria | especially didnt like my non latin char sets. the german survived, but the hebrew had to go | 19:52 |
| Luria | also blew up on the dl attempt | 19:52 |
| trevarthan | Yeah. I'm not sure what to do about that. Python's urllib sucks with unicode and other non-ascii charsets. We probably need to replace urllib with something usable. | 19:53 |
| Luria | not entirely you i assume - why nokia, with all its l10n experience couldnt give maemo proper unicode and rtl | 19:53 |
| Luria | is totally beyond me | 19:53 |
| trevarthan | it's python's fault, not nokia. | 19:53 |
| trevarthan | why the world isn't running unicode right now, I don't know. | 19:53 |
| trevarthan | I'll make a ticket for that too and see what I can do. | 19:54 |
| Luria | still... giving me the char lookup for the unicode character is NOT unicode support | 19:54 |
| Luria | trevarthan, since the german eventually scanned, but the hebrew didnt the rtl might be fatal, while nonlatin just buggy | 19:55 |
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| Luria | also, ran 5-10 attempts to scan 230 songs before deleting | 19:55 |
| Luria | each took about 5 minutes | 19:56 |
| trevarthan | I don't know if you're a programmer, but if you are, and you find a patch that works, let me know. | 19:56 |
| Luria | i have been. if i have some time, illtry to do something | 19:56 |
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| trevarthan | ticket for that one too: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/ticket/8 | 19:57 |
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| trevarthan | Luria: thanks for the feedback. Let me know if you notice anything else. | 19:58 |
| Luria | np' | 19:59 |
| Luria | trevarthan, http://api.pocoo.org/pocoo.utils.uri-pysrc.html | 20:05 |
| Luria | any help? | 20:06 |
| _Monkey | any help is, like, welcome | 20:06 |
| trevarthan | lol. | 20:06 |
| noishe | Is there anything setup wise you have to do to a clean n800 to get the moz based browser to resolve it's dependences? | 20:06 |
| trevarthan | forget any help | 20:06 |
| _Monkey | trevarthan: I forgot any help | 20:06 |
| Luria | im not sure at what point the code is failing | 20:06 |
| trevarthan | should give a backtrace in the xterm | 20:07 |
| trevarthan | that func looks like it might help, btw. | 20:08 |
| Luria | np | 20:08 |
| trevarthan | I don't have any non-ascii chars in my id3 tags ( I stripped them all when I was using UKMP)... | 20:09 |
| Luria | so you are asking me where to dl foreign music, eh? | 20:09 |
| Luria | :-) | 20:09 |
| trevarthan | not really. | 20:10 |
| trevarthan | let me write a patch and you can tell me if it works for you. | 20:10 |
| Luria | i was kidding :-) | 20:10 |
| trevarthan | BTW, do you get a line number in the backtrace? Just to make sure it's failing where I think it is? | 20:11 |
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| Luria | i might not be able to reproduce this until i put something more complicated than german back on my n800 | 20:17 |
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| trevarthan | ugh | 20:18 |
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| trevarthan | well, tell you what: do that sometime, then send me the backtrace. we'll go from there, ok? | 20:18 |
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| Luria | ill do what i can | 20:19 |
| Luria | :-) | 20:19 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa, trevarthan: sorry, I'm back | 20:20 |
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| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: the problem about streaming more than 1 media is that mythtv does not support it.. | 20:21 |
| trevarthan | Luria: I updated the ticket with that URL. I'll need a backtrace to determine if it's worth porting though. Doesn't look like a drop in as we're doing the part after the '?', and that code seems to be doing the part before the '?'. | 20:21 |
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| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: the client just makes an http query...then gmyth-streamer uses gmyth to get data from mythtv backend | 20:21 |
| Luria | let me try to reproduce it later and grab the output | 20:23 |
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| Luria | i gotta run run | 20:27 |
| Luria | bye all | 20:27 |
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| cannonball | Hey all. My coworker just got a nokia tablet. There's no ping, the docs indicate that busybox should be able to provide it. I tried symlinking it, but it said applet not found. Am I close to doing it the right way? Am I missing something really obvious? | 20:28 |
| cannonball | I don't know much detail about this particular equipment/os. It's my first exposure to it. | 20:29 |
| Jaffa | MoRpHeUz: Excellent! So an appropriate amount of hackery to gmyth-streamer to support Freevo would mean MaemoMyth wouldn't need to change? | 20:30 |
| kulve | cannonball: busybox needs to be reconfigure/recompiled to provide ping | 20:30 |
| kulve | cannonball: my device seems to have ping though.. | 20:30 |
| kulve | cannonball: did you upgrade the firmware? | 20:30 |
| cannonball | He says no. Has not upgraded anything. He's going to the wiki and going to look for things along that line. | 20:31 |
| cannonball | He said something about another repository as well. | 20:31 |
| cannonball | So I guess he's going to install the iputils package. | 20:31 |
| kulve | first thing to do is to update the newest firmware | 20:32 |
| kulve | because the "flashing" will erase everything there | 20:33 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: exactly | 20:33 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: that's the way I tought about it...but as I'm no on that team any more, I can't assure that things will happen like this, but I still talk with the guys about this subject..so if you want to send any suggestion for me, it will be welcome! =P | 20:35 |
| cannonball | kulve: apparently he has the latest :-) Came with it, so that's cool at least. | 20:35 |
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| kulve | 26-8? | 20:35 |
| _Monkey | 18 | 20:35 |
| N800 | trevarthan, you want an ok button? | 20:35 |
| kulve | _Monkey: 18? | 20:35 |
| _Monkey | kulve: wish i knew | 20:35 |
| kulve | _Monkey: I knew that! | 20:36 |
| _Monkey | kulve: i'm not following you... | 20:36 |
| cannonball | kulve: 3.2006.49-2 | 20:36 |
| kulve | cannonball: so, he has 770? | 20:36 |
| cannonball | yes. | 20:36 |
| trevarthan | N800: sure. | 20:36 |
| kulve | cannonball: remember to always tell if you are talking about 770 or n800.. :) | 20:36 |
| trevarthan | if you want, feel free to do button down images too. I can always code those in. | 20:37 |
| cannonball | cvs commit -m "Always say model" | 20:37 |
| cannonball | Linus woudl be so disappointed... | 20:37 |
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| N800 | the other dude knows the settings to use to get transparency going. so i'm just going to end up putting together a layout and he'll do the rest.. | 20:38 |
| trevarthan | cool. | 20:38 |
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| N800 | trevarthan, can you show me an example of a button drop down image? | 20:46 |
| N800 | i have no idea as to what this is.. | 20:46 |
| trevarthan | Click a button anywhere on a normal desktop system. See how it looks like it has been pressed? The image is shifted to the right and down by a pixel or so. Sometimes, with rounded images, you can change the shadows to make it look like it has been pressed. That's what I mean. | 20:48 |
| trevarthan | I think canola might have really obvious button down images. Don't those round buttons get pushed in when you touch them? | 20:49 |
| trevarthan | could be wrong.... | 20:49 |
| trevarthan | been a while since I used canola. | 20:49 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: no, we don't | 20:50 |
| k-s[WORK] | yet | 20:50 |
| k-s[WORK] | :-P | 20:50 |
| N800 | tried canola once | 20:51 |
| N800 | so for every icons button on the sprites.png you need an alternative. | 20:52 |
| N800 | that shows it was pressed | 20:52 |
| trevarthan | yeah, that's the idea. | 20:52 |
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| k-s[WORK] | yes | 20:53 |
| k-s[WORK] | :-) | 20:53 |
| k-s[WORK] | or you use Edje (EDC) files and specify a new state that can be just the image with a position offset, new color, alpha.... | 20:53 |
| k-s[WORK] | really easy :-) | 20:53 |
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| destino | you can also modify the original image by code, but i would only recommend that if you are trying to make something compatible with lots of themes | 20:55 |
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| syntux | neyahahah Finishing flashing... done | 21:02 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: yeah, we're still using pygame. no edje here. | 21:05 |
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| akjohn | Howdy all.. | 21:05 |
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| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: too bad :-P | 21:05 |
| trevarthan | :) we can't all be cool like the canola kids. | 21:06 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: you should really try it, I told you :-) | 21:06 |
| akjohn | I have a Nokia N800 running IT OS 2007 1.2006.47-20 and having trouble with the browser and loading https sites.. | 21:06 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: it's not being cool as canola kids, but as the E kids... we're following their infra :-) | 21:06 |
| akjohn | Anyone have a moment to chat with me? | 21:07 |
| trevarthan | btw, how does the edje event loop work? Is it like SDL where you need to add sleeps to not chew up 100% cpu? Or is it like gtk where all of that is hidden from you and everything is event driven? | 21:07 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: kenne and I wrote this tutorial, may be of help: http://wiki.enlightenment.org/index.php/Creating_Edje_User_Interfaces | 21:07 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: it's like GTK | 21:07 |
| syntux | which works better with Nokia N800, Gizmo or Skype ? | 21:07 |
| timeless | inz: sure, but do you need to move all the other things? it just feels like you're running around in a loop, when i'd hope that a single memmove would be sufficient | 21:07 |
| timeless | akjohn: what sites? | 21:07 |
| akjohn | timeless, Any site I try.. | 21:08 |
| timeless | and which browser? | 21:08 |
| N800 | syntux either or | 21:08 |
| timeless | pick one and name it? | 21:08 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: Edje is just a "smart object" of Evas (the canvas), the main loop stuff is done by Ecore (something along the lines of GLib) | 21:08 |
| N800 | both are really good | 21:08 |
| akjohn | timeless, The normal browser. | 21:08 |
| timeless | https://sf.net ? | 21:08 |
| timeless | and have you tried rebooting your device? | 21:08 |
| akjohn | timeless, I checked the time and it was off. I reset it and rebooted it and it is doing the same thing still.. | 21:08 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: how do you get a specific frame rate then? | 21:08 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: it's more optimized for graphics, with the "animator" avoiding you to have multiple timers for animation | 21:08 |
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| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: you set the animator frame rate | 21:09 |
| trevarthan | ah. | 21:09 |
| k-s[WORK] | :- | 21:09 |
| k-s[WORK] | it's doable with g_timeout_add() and some code, sure | 21:09 |
| trevarthan | How does the speed compare to pygame? (blits, specifically, but font rendering too) | 21:09 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: blits are much faster, I wrote the 16bpp to be like that :-) | 21:09 |
| akjohn | timeless, I get a "Unable to complete secure transaction" | 21:10 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: fonts are a bit slower, because it render the fonts directly and not an image that is then blitted... but it saves lots of memory | 21:10 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: one of my biggest problems with kagu is font rendering. I'm having to pre-render and cache things, which is bloating my ram usage a lot. | 21:10 |
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| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: I have binary packages for n800, you can try my demos... I'll package kenne kinetics list example soon | 21:11 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: I know that, we do that with canola | 21:11 |
| k-s[WORK] | sorry, we did | 21:11 |
| timeless | akjohn: have you done anything funny to your device? | 21:11 |
| timeless | e.g. deleting all certificates from control panel :) | 21:12 |
| trevarthan | So what's the big motivation for edje? Just getting a few more blits per cycle out of the hardware? | 21:12 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: that don't show too much, just if you use soft shadow you'd notice any difference | 21:12 |
| akjohn | timeless, Um... I dont think so.. | 21:12 |
| trevarthan | I mean, you can abstract everything yourself, so having a gtk like event loop doesn't seem like that big of an advantage.... | 21:12 |
| akjohn | timeless, I did look in there and all the CA certs where there, but there are not any user certs.. | 21:12 |
| timeless | there normally aren't any user certs, that's fine | 21:12 |
| * timeless configures a wifi network for an n800 | 21:13 | |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: as I told you, Evas is the canvas (something along pygame.sprite.Group), Edje is a tool to read description and resources from a text file, store resources on one file... like a theme, but with basic scripting | 21:13 |
| * timeless gives up and uses 3g | 21:13 | |
| timeless | ok, i get: Secure connnection | 21:13 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: Evas manages objects in layers, try to minimize repaint area, etc... | 21:13 |
| timeless | This site has sent an untrusted certificate | 21:13 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: Ecore manages timers, loop, ... | 21:14 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: so the big motivating factor is that you wanted a decent theme engine and didn't want to write your own? | 21:14 |
| timeless | * Certificate name is invalid or does not match the name of the site | 21:14 |
| timeless | <https://sf.net> | 21:14 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: Ecore_Evas manages connection with window manager, expose events from X, etc... | 21:14 |
| timeless | i take it you're getting a different error :( | 21:14 |
| akjohn | timeless, I noticed it this morning on gmail after my N800 crashed last night.. | 21:14 |
| akjohn | timeless, Yep.. | 21:14 |
| * timeless nods | 21:14 | |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: Edje is something like CSS + JavaScript... it define states, transitions and events to trigger transitions, together with a basic scripting and layout engine | 21:14 |
| timeless | months ago i had problems where certman flaked out | 21:15 |
| timeless | but i haven't seen them recently | 21:15 |
| akjohn | timeless, I get the "site has sent an untrusted cert", then I click continue | 21:15 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: on top of those, we also have ETK or EWL, widget sets like GTK... but that you can blend with your eye candy | 21:15 |
| timeless | um, ok, then what? | 21:15 |
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| akjohn | timeless, Then I get the message again, and I click continue, | 21:15 |
| timeless | how much data do you have on your device? :) | 21:16 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: oh... so it comes with it's own widgets? Do you use them? Or have you decided to make your own? | 21:16 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: ETK and EWL can be mixed with the canvas, for example you can fade in your dialog to ask for password, then slide it... move buttons, do whatever you want | 21:16 |
| akjohn | timeless, Then I get "Unable to complete secure transaction" then I click ok and nothing happens.. | 21:16 |
| * timeless nods | 21:16 | |
| akjohn | timeless, Lets see what df says.. | 21:16 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: use ETK so far... it's almost like GTK, almost the same API | 21:16 |
| timeless | i think if i were you, i'd backup my data (not necessarily w/ backup) and reflash :) | 21:16 |
| akjohn | timeless, / is 54% /tmp is 14% | 21:17 |
| timeless | but you're welcome to try browser.garage.maemo.org to see if the other browser works better | 21:17 |
| timeless | it's pretty unlikely that it would, but who knows :) | 21:17 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: you can set your own theme, per application but also per widget... (no big thing here) | 21:17 |
| akjohn | timeless, Dang.. I need this for maemo-mapper for a trip tomorrow.. | 21:17 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: sounds like a big time investment just to develop for the n800. | 21:17 |
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| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: what? our time? | 21:17 |
| trevarthan | no, mine | 21:17 |
| akjohn | timeless, I guess I could try flashing to the newest and try to put everything back togerther again.. | 21:17 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: e.org guys did the hard job | 21:18 |
| akjohn | timeless, *together | 21:18 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: I already wrote the difficult bits of optimization | 21:18 |
| trevarthan | It does sound like a really nice engine though. | 21:18 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: what's left now is just write your app to use it :-P | 21:18 |
| timeless | 52% used in / here, so you haven't really added too much | 21:18 |
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| trevarthan | How much RAM does it use with python loaded and nothing else? | 21:18 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: sure it take some time playing with Evas/Edje to get it right and use correct... but it pays in the end | 21:19 |
| akjohn | timeless, I have added some things, like maemo-mapper, xterm and things.. | 21:19 |
| timeless | most of maemomapper is or should be on mmc | 21:19 |
| timeless | there are only a few files / gconf bits | 21:19 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: which app? you need to check... usually it's less than if you did it with PyGame... it reference count images it open, use the same data, etc | 21:20 |
| timeless | migrating it is tolerable | 21:20 |
| timeless | xterm is reinstallable | 21:20 |
| akjohn | timeless, Yeah.. Just a bummer to have to put everything back in and what not.. | 21:20 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: raster, the main author, is careful with those things... although e17 is bling bling, it uses less memory than XFCE | 21:20 |
| * timeless nods | 21:20 | |
| timeless | try the other browser | 21:21 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: <sigh> sounds really good. Too bad I'd have to rewrite everything. | 21:21 |
| timeless | as i said, it's unlikely to help, but unless you're paying for bandwidth it shouldn't hurt | 21:21 |
| akjohn | timeless, I dont have the other browser.. | 21:21 |
| akjohn | timeless, Eh? | 21:21 |
| akjohn | timeless, I thought I needed the latest firmware to load the new browser.. | 21:21 |
| timeless | http://browse.garage.maemo.org/ | 21:21 |
| timeless | oh, you're using 3.2007 | 21:21 |
| timeless | ? | 21:21 |
| timeless | well, if you're feeling adventurous, http://webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/ :) | 21:22 |
| akjohn | timeless, 1.2006.47-20 | 21:22 |
| timeless | eww | 21:22 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: for canola we had to rewrite just the UI, we designed it to be split in Model-View-Controller, so jut views are being rewritten | 21:22 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: I might start a branch of kagu rewritten for edje/avas/etk/place-your-stupid-acronym-here. (you really need a single name for all of that, BTW) | 21:22 |
| timeless | that's um, like the original shipping release | 21:22 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: actually we'll rewrite controllers too... but just to move them to python (== simpler, easier to maintain) | 21:22 |
| _Handful_ | use EFL | 21:22 |
| timeless | most devices shipped w/ a slightly later one | 21:22 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: single name is EFL | 21:23 |
| akjohn | timeless, I am just from the "if aint broke" thought process | 21:23 |
| k-s[WORK] | stands for "Enlightenment Foundation Libraries" :-P | 21:23 |
| timeless | oh, me too | 21:23 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: yeah, if I do the rewrite, I'll probably make the music playing portion a separate backend process and communicate with the frontend via DBUS or sockets. | 21:23 |
| timeless | but the devices i have that are like that have collected a lot more cobwebs than yours has :) | 21:23 |
| akjohn | timeless, What do you mean? | 21:23 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: ah, MoRpHeUz and lsobral can be handy here... they're writing such backend | 21:24 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: disq has been wanting to write a GTK frontend anyway, so that would let us experiment with different frontends. | 21:24 |
| timeless | i have a couple of devices i don't reflash | 21:24 |
| akjohn | timeless, How many do you have??!? | 21:24 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: if he alredy know GTK, it may be faster to write at first glance, but don't be fooled | 21:24 |
| timeless | but i'm sure i collected more pieces | 21:24 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: frankly man, I really wish you canola guys would just open source that crap so I didn't have to do all of this extra work just to support A2DP and play with some tiny extra features. That sucks. You're all a bunch of jerks. | 21:25 |
| timeless | akjohn: 1 770, a proto n800 w/ 72% used on / | 21:25 |
| akjohn | timeless, Ah.. | 21:25 |
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| timeless | and 2 n800s | 21:25 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: so do I, believe me | 21:25 |
| timeless | the proto and 770 are devices i've used heavily | 21:25 |
| chenca | hahahahah | 21:25 |
| akjohn | timeless, I see.. Nice to have a budget for a gadgets.. | 21:25 |
| timeless | the others get reflashed probably weekly | 21:25 |
| _Handful_ | hehehe that's what I call being straight to the point =) | 21:26 |
| * _Handful_ is a jerk | 21:26 | |
| timeless | akjohn: nah, working for nokia doesn't quite do that | 21:26 |
| _Handful_ | =) | 21:26 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: why don't you use mplayer and write a small app outside canola to change ~/.mplayer/config | 21:26 |
| k-s[WORK] | ? | 21:26 |
| _Handful_ | a2dp works on canola =) | 21:26 |
| trevarthan | oh well, at least you're providing us with cool tools to make things with. But then you're like "here's the new version of canola, so all your hard work is completely useless now" | 21:26 |
| _Handful_ | just use mplayer like you did on kogu =) | 21:26 |
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| akjohn | timeless, Oh.. I guess that helps.. | 21:26 |
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| timeless | akjohn: i'm paid to work on the web browser | 21:26 |
| _Handful_ | trevarthan: I don't think this.. as you said.. people that likes to hack | 21:26 |
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| _Handful_ | would play with the other things.. | 21:26 |
| timeless | so problems w/ it interest me professionally (if nothing else) | 21:26 |
| _Handful_ | freedom of choice =) | 21:27 |
| akjohn | timeless, Well. I guess I need to backup and flash then eh? Can I just snag my home directory over to a flash card and then flash the device with the newest firmware? | 21:27 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: next canola version will be in Python, so you can try to hack it even if it's not open source... ;-) | 21:27 |
| k-s[WORK] | but I hope it will | 21:27 |
| k-s[WORK] | be | 21:27 |
| _Handful_ | but we fully understand your point =) we think that same.. but managers don't =) | 21:27 |
| Jaffa | What justification would there be for it *not* being OSS? | 21:27 |
| k-s[WORK] | Jaffa: managers not getting it | 21:28 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: if you're telling me to work around the fact that canola is closed source, then you obviously don't understand open source at all. | 21:28 |
| Jaffa | _Handful_: think of the features even the current Canola would have if it was OSS. | 21:28 |
| k-s[WORK] | Jaffa: we're trying hard, it's at the legal dept right now | 21:28 |
| timeless | you'll want to grab the gconf directory tree too | 21:28 |
| _Handful_ | trevarthan: I didn't said I understand it.. but =) we are fighting to open it, because we know how it works and how much the application could benefit from being open source | 21:28 |
| timeless | but it's basically gconf and ~ | 21:28 |
| _Handful_ | and even more ... how it would be easier to know good people interested in the software.. =) | 21:29 |
| k-s[WORK] | Jaffa: me too... even I, as a developer, have things that I'd like different and can implement, but I cannot release this work | 21:29 |
| akjohn | timeless, Where is the gconf tree and how do I restore it cleanly? | 21:29 |
| timeless | in my case, i want ~, gconf, and apt/dpkg info | 21:29 |
| timeless | gconftool/gconftool-2 are the proper ways | 21:29 |
| timeless | but you'd need to read a man page or something for info about how to do it right | 21:29 |
| _Handful_ | we are making pressure, because we understand the possibilities... but if they (managers) think other ways... or have other plans... it's complicated.. | 21:29 |
| k-s[WORK] | Jaffa: we could have almost all webservices inside canola, like proper flickr, audioscrobbler, ... | 21:30 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: let me know when that happens. But until then, you give me no choice but to write my own competing app. And it's not like either one of us are really getting paid for it (I know you guys are funded a bit, so not so true on your end), so it just doesn't make any sense. | 21:30 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: I already wrote a competing software too! | 21:30 |
| _Handful_ | trevarthan: that's the point.. I wrote about it. I even don't think as competition because we are trying to do the same : make maemo great | 21:30 |
| k-s[WORK] | to my own paid software! | 21:30 |
| akjohn | timeless, _sigh_ Okay.. I do not really have time to mess around with this, so hopefully maemo-mapper keeps going.. | 21:30 |
| OgMaciel | :D | 21:30 |
| timeless | maemo mapper iirc uses gconf | 21:31 |
| _Handful_ | and you and konttori made us pretty happy when developed in python | 21:31 |
| k-s[WORK] | it's called catota! check my playground: http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/2007/04/19/new-maemo-player-catota/ | 21:31 |
| _Handful_ | and we would be even more happy if this would grow even more =) | 21:31 |
| timeless | it's /var/lib/gconf fwiw | 21:31 |
| timeless | and you can /try/ to just archive the tree | 21:31 |
| timeless | although it's not technically legal | 21:31 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: _Handful_: if you can't open source canola, I think you should focus on other aspects of the system and stop competing with the open source players. They'll mature on their own, but it's harmful to have Canola out there undermining them. | 21:31 |
| akjohn | timeless, Legal? What do you mean? | 21:31 |
| timeless | the api says you're supposed to use gconf apis | 21:31 |
| timeless | instead of just going behind the daemon and touching its files | 21:32 |
| akjohn | timeless, Oh I see. I would use the term "proper" instead of "legal" | 21:32 |
| pupnik | why does dspmp3sink suck for catota? | 21:32 |
| _Handful_ | and even with canola not being open, at least all the components, and really hard and important work is on the publics repositories .. so we are releasing the important bits for delovepers like you and others to also benefit (if the code is good of course.. ) | 21:32 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: we can't. we don't work on it because we want, but because we're paid to do so | 21:32 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: and we were born _FIRST_ :-D | 21:32 |
| trevarthan | :) | 21:32 |
| _Handful_ | yes.. and more: I don't think we are mining the player... but if you think so | 21:32 |
| _Handful_ | for example | 21:32 |
| _Monkey | for example is 0x00 a valid value for a Java bytecode? | 21:32 |
| k-s[WORK] | pupnik: at that time? it was mplayer fault! | 21:32 |
| k-s[WORK] | pupnik: does it still suck? I think mplayer were fixed | 21:33 |
| _Handful_ | a guy sent me a though comment about not being able to use last.fm and that he would never user canola.. | 21:33 |
| trevarthan | :) probably disq. | 21:33 |
| pupnik | k-s[WORK]: just reading from your blog | 21:33 |
| _Handful_ | so I really think that we are not mining... we are in the end helping improving it.. | 21:33 |
| akjohn | timeless, Do you really think flashing it will correct the problem? | 21:34 |
| _Handful_ | - not in the best way of course... =) | 21:34 |
| _Handful_ | ehehhe | 21:34 |
| _Handful_ | no.. it wasn't disq =) | 21:34 |
| _Handful_ | as " slow " | 21:34 |
| timeless | akjohn: not many choices | 21:34 |
| timeless | it pretty much has to | 21:34 |
| timeless | the sites aren't broken | 21:34 |
| timeless | it's very unlikely your file system is corrupt | 21:34 |
| trevarthan | well, perhaps the competition motivates. But I think it's harmful too, cause you guys are getting paid and I'm not. :) Makes me want to pack up and go home, you know? | 21:35 |
| timeless | and even if it is, you're still better off w/ a backup and finding out sooner | 21:35 |
| timeless | my guess is certman is corrupt | 21:35 |
| _Handful_ | I know... this sucks.. but look what you guys made in such small time... | 21:35 |
| _Handful_ | it's incredible | 21:35 |
| timeless | although i don't think we ever really figured out how/why that happens | 21:35 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: I know, but your work is important for us... | 21:35 |
| timeless | i'd probably move to either 3.2007 or 4.2007. but my proto is i think 2.2007 :) | 21:36 |
| _Handful_ | I think is important for maemo... | 21:36 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: like chenca and I always proposed using Python, you proved to our boss that it's possible | 21:36 |
| akjohn | timeless, Ah.. Well I guess I will start trawling the wiki for back and flash guides.. I was thinking to go to the latest so I could use the mozilla browser.. | 21:36 |
| * timeless nods | 21:36 | |
| akjohn | timeless, Do you have a link to a backup and flash guide handy? | 21:36 |
| timeless | i happen to use the mozilla browser on both 4 and 3, so i'm not picky about that | 21:37 |
| timeless | 4 has the advantage of trying to correct touchpad problems | 21:37 |
| timeless | s/pad/screen/ | 21:37 |
| infobot | timeless meant: 4 has the advantage of trying to correct touchscreen problems | 21:37 |
| timeless | but some people have complained that 4 hurts things | 21:37 |
| akjohn | timeless, You mean when you use the finger keyboard? | 21:37 |
| akjohn | timeless, Cause I use that a ton.. | 21:37 |
| akjohn | timeless, And it so annoys me when applications interact with it differently. | 21:38 |
| timeless | if you mean the small keyboard | 21:38 |
| timeless | (vkb, not fkb) | 21:38 |
| akjohn | timeless, No I mean the big keyboard for finger typing.. | 21:38 |
| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: k-s[WORK] mentioned a media backend...I'm working on it with lsobral ... =) | 21:38 |
| timeless | the touchscreen problems were generally afaiu limited to stylus/fingernail input | 21:38 |
| timeless | if you have problems using thumbs, that's not something i'm aware of | 21:39 |
| timeless | but, i'm starving | 21:39 |
| timeless | and my food choices are dwindling | 21:39 |
| akjohn | timeless, All right.. Thanks for the help.. Go get something to eat eh? | 21:39 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: so we're like an idea farm to you. :) a proof of concept application. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I suppose it makes Canola better in the long run, which, if I want to use Canola (and I did originally), helps me in a round about sort of way. | 21:39 |
| _Handful_ | hei | 21:40 |
| trevarthan | It's like open source work flow without the open source. | 21:40 |
| trevarthan | :) | 21:40 |
| _Handful_ | I don't think is that trevarthan, I think is like user's need not idea farm =) | 21:40 |
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| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: not much an idea farm, but as one that get things done first | 21:41 |
| _Handful_ | because we actually had bold plans for canola since the beginning.. (actually that was the motivation to go efl now) now we needed a infra to implement our ideas in a fast way | 21:41 |
| k-s[WORK] | idea of python was born more than a year before | 21:41 |
| _Handful_ | imagine yourself using sdl without pygame... it's a slow and pain process : / | 21:41 |
| trevarthan | I dunno. I get it. I just don't like it very much. And it sounds like you don't like it much either. But it sounds like we're stuck with it. | 21:41 |
| _Handful_ | yeah.. we for SURE don't like it.. believes us | 21:42 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: yep | 21:42 |
| syntux | which repos are safe to use ? | 21:42 |
| _Handful_ | what we can do is : try to release most of the componets that we can | 21:42 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: we tried to keep things as free as possible | 21:42 |
| akjohn | timeless, Did you take off yet? | 21:42 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: EFL is BSD, I could let our manager tell me "make it in house and change the license", but we didn't | 21:42 |
| pupnik | developers need to eat too | 21:43 |
| k-s[WORK] | libdmapsharing was released by andrunko as LGPL | 21:43 |
| _Handful_ | pupnik: a lot =) lol | 21:43 |
| akjohn | Nah.. Devs can run on sode alone right? | 21:43 |
| akjohn | *soda | 21:43 |
| _Handful_ | hehehe | 21:43 |
| _Handful_ | I wish... =) | 21:43 |
| akjohn | So, how good is the backup app at getting you back in shape after a firmware rev? | 21:44 |
| _Handful_ | I could run on Fazer chocolate | 21:44 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: I think I want to benefit as large of a user base as possible though, and it sounds like EFL is huge and difficult to port. Are there any other well known applications using it right now? | 21:44 |
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| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: E itself, but it's in C | 21:45 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: you have doxygen docs, some texts on the platform overview | 21:45 |
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| trevarthan | A large part of me feels like if I use EFL I'll just be supporting Canola and it's license. :) And that kagu will be forever in Canola's shadow. And if I restrict Kagu to the n800, then it might indeed be forever in Canola's shadow. | 21:48 |
| trevarthan | did that hit the 255 char limit? I can't tell. | 21:49 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: and that tutorial I told you | 21:49 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: ? | 21:49 |
| trevarthan | what? | 21:50 |
| trevarthan | I'm not sure what you're asking. | 21:50 |
| _Handful_ | I think you should not worry about us | 21:50 |
| akjohn | I guess folks missed my backup question... | 21:51 |
| _Handful_ | better you should only look, and see if we released something that was not available that is worth using =) | 21:51 |
| akjohn | Anyone have any experience with the backup app? | 21:51 |
| pupnik | akjohn: vague questino | 21:51 |
| akjohn | pupnik, Hmm.. Not sure how I could be more clear. | 21:51 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: yeah. I guess that means that unless I really need the performance, EFL doesn't really make much sense for kagu. | 21:51 |
| N800 | trevarthan, you are still being ask to join the darkside | 21:52 |
| _Handful_ | so it will never be on the shadow.. and being free. make's you faster than us | 21:52 |
| _Handful_ | because we have other projects.. | 21:52 |
| pupnik | akjohn: it saves certain things and not others | 21:52 |
| _Handful_ | I think it's not performance.. I'm a UI guy | 21:52 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: I might really need the performance. I'm not saying I don't. But switching just because it's there isn't a good decision. | 21:52 |
| _Handful_ | I like the choice because it's so much faster to create rich ui | 21:52 |
| akjohn | Is there anything that I need to backup outside of what the backup application backs up before reving my firmware? | 21:52 |
| N800 | 3 icons down 8 to go | 21:52 |
| _Handful_ | I wouldn't ever switch because of performance.. it's about speed for doing great rich ui | 21:52 |
| akjohn | pupnik, Hows that? | 21:52 |
| _Handful_ | and even better... you can actually make the ui team do a lot of the boring work for the developers.. | 21:53 |
| pupnik | akjohn, i reccommend you back up the things you want to keep that the backup application does not backup. | 21:53 |
| akjohn | pupnik, I agree, but sadly I have no idea what those things might be.. | 21:53 |
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| trevarthan | _Handful_: I'm not really all that interested in a great rich UI. I'm more interested in dead-simple and ease of use. I'm not sure if EFL would make that more difficult or less difficult. | 21:54 |
| pupnik | The backup application saves and restores user data stored in ~/MyDocs (by default) and setting directories and files in /etc/osso-af-init/gconf-dir (a link to GConf database /var/lib/gconf), /etc/osso-af-init/locale, and /etc/bluetooth/name. The application can be configured to back up other locations and files as well by using custom configuration files. | 21:55 |
| pupnik | For all data that is not normally backed up, the so-called locations configuration is used. | 21:55 |
| pupnik | The locations configuration paths must not overlap with the documents path. | 21:55 |
| pupnik | The locations configuration allows the applications to install a configuration file with a list of files and directories that must be included in the backup. The configuration file must be installed into the /etc/osso-backup/applications directory and named <application>.conf. The file must consist of simple XML format. The following example illustrates the example_libosso.conf configuration file: | 21:55 |
| trevarthan | _Handful_: I'm also interested in portability. And I think EFL rules that out. | 21:55 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: why? | 21:56 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: we have it working on macos too, and win32 is not far (almost finished, using direct3d) | 21:56 |
| trevarthan | Why does it rule it out? EFL + python bindings isn't widely available on anything but maemo yet. | 21:56 |
| trevarthan | I think the correct approach for kagu right now is to separate the backend from the frontend and continue developing using pygame for now, but leave the door open for GTK and EFL. | 21:58 |
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| trevarthan | And the longer I wait to do that, the harder it will be, so we should probably make that a priority. | 21:58 |
| pupnik | akjohn: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7488&highlight=backup+restore | 21:59 |
| akjohn | pupnik, Ah! Thanks! | 21:59 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: have at look at catota, I have engines split and you can grow on it | 21:59 |
| trevarthan | catota? | 22:00 |
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| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/2007/04/19/new-maemo-player-catota/ | 22:01 |
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| MoRpHeUz | trevarthan: just need some update regarding gmyth-streamer parameters... | 22:01 |
| trevarthan | looks like it's a frontend, basically? In GTK? with support for multiple backends? | 22:01 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: yep | 22:05 |
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| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: with multipe player engines and sources | 22:05 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: I have few sources, like the file chooser | 22:06 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: maybe you can add a playlist there, dunno | 22:06 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: it was born as a clever hack to allow me experiment with mplayer without using command line | 22:06 |
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| dospod | hello | 22:07 |
| brian__ | Hi all, when I try to play 'Road to Ruin' (the sample audio clip) in my N800 it says 'Unable to perform operation. Try again'. | 22:07 |
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| brian__ | I've rebooted and the behavior is the same. | 22:07 |
| brian__ | Well I've power cycled. | 22:08 |
| kenne | k-s[WORK], horizontal kinetic scrolling is in git ... there is a ctor karg 'horizontal' that you must set to True | 22:08 |
| dospod | does anybody have maemo installed on a computer? | 22:09 |
| k-s[WORK] | kenne: thanks | 22:09 |
| procto | trevarthan: is there any work planned on improving kagu performance? | 22:11 |
| dospod | I like the hildon ui and was wondering if someone had it installed on their computer also | 22:11 |
| procto | I haven't had a chance to look at the code, so I can't offer any specific comments, though | 22:11 |
| procto | MoRpHeUz: are there any catota packages? It looks pretty darn nice. | 22:14 |
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| procto | MoRpHeUz: I'm stuck using only windows machines until I get all the parts for my new computer, so building from svn ain't happening for me | 22:15 |
| pupnik | hmm, free movies and films for all http://www.archive.org/details/moviesandfilms | 22:15 |
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| MoRpHeUz | procto: I think that it's just from svn, right k-s[WORK] ? | 22:15 |
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| k-s[WORK] | procto: no, just SVN | 22:16 |
| procto | oh well | 22:16 |
| k-s[WORK] | procto: feel free to continue, I can give you every copyright if you want | 22:16 |
| k-s[WORK] | code is clean, simple | 22:17 |
| MoRpHeUz | procto: why procto ? =P hehe | 22:17 |
| procto | k-s[WORK]: one of the main thing that's appealing to me about it, is the ability to use mplayer to play upnp stuff | 22:17 |
| k-s[WORK] | procto: you can write any source you want | 22:18 |
| procto | I'm looking at the code | 22:18 |
| procto | it really is good | 22:18 |
| procto | I so often see python code that looks like C without curly braces | 22:18 |
| procto | sp moce wjem tjat osm | 22:19 |
| procto | I mean, so nice when that isn't the case | 22:19 |
| k-s[WORK] | procto: not my code, believe me :-) | 22:21 |
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| procto | ehehe | 22:21 |
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| k-s[WORK] | although some examples of edje/evas are more like bash script than anything else | 22:21 |
| k-s[WORK] | too small and simple | 22:21 |
| procto | while I'm a big fan of EFL, I think it's overkill for most things | 22:22 |
| pupnik | the evas youtube is nice. keep making videos of cool things - helps promote the nokias | 22:22 |
| procto | I think Catota has just the right interface for its type of app. I'm very impressed | 22:22 |
| trevarthan | procto: yes. lots. what aspect of performance are you curious about? | 22:22 |
| _Handful_ | pupnik: that's the goal =) | 22:23 |
| k-s[WORK] | pupnik: yep! | 22:23 |
| procto | trevarthan: the "everything is slow" aspect. Scanning I understand, but it takes over 15 seconds to load an 80 song playlist | 22:23 |
| procto | I didn't time it exactly | 22:23 |
| trevarthan | yeah, that's a long playlist. | 22:23 |
| trevarthan | I'll work on that. | 22:23 |
| trevarthan | most of mine are 12 songs or less. | 22:23 |
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| procto | but what is it doing when it's loading the playlist? like I said, I haven't looked at the code | 22:24 |
| procto | Shouldn't it only be doing something like reading an xml file? | 22:24 |
| procto | and dumping it into the UI? | 22:24 |
| trevarthan | procto: It's allocating a surface for each item in the scroll widget. That's surprisingly slow. | 22:24 |
| procto | ah | 22:24 |
| procto | I see | 22:24 |
| procto | I only got my n800 2 weeks ago, and I don't have any linux computers to develop on at the moment (main computer's a laptop, and waiting on asus to send me a replacement for a video card that BURST INTO FLAME) | 22:25 |
| trevarthan | I'll see if I can change it to not allocate a surface, but instead blit everything on the fly. I've been meaning to do that for a while now. | 22:25 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: ooooouch! | 22:25 |
| procto | I'm itching to code something :> | 22:25 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: please don't do it | 22:25 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: keep surface for the N visible items + 2 spare | 22:25 |
| procto | k-s[WORK]: that might not work well with kinetic scrolling | 22:26 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: cycle those (wrap) | 22:26 |
| trevarthan | yeah, that's a good idea. | 22:26 |
| k-s[WORK] | procto: it does | 22:26 |
| procto | trevarthan: how about actually only having a single widget? | 22:26 |
| procto | i.e. | 22:26 |
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| k-s[WORK] | procto: kenne have a video showing that | 22:26 |
| procto | like one huge button (I'm not 100% familiar with the API) | 22:26 |
| procto | with selection identified by scroll position? | 22:26 |
| k-s[WORK] | procto: he don't have widgets, but simple SDL/PyGame surfaces... | 22:26 |
| procto | a bit hacky, but might be faster | 22:26 |
| procto | right, so it handles a bunch of surfaces, right? | 22:27 |
| trevarthan | procto: if I do it k-s[WORK]'s way, the load time will go way down. I can optimize further from there. | 22:27 |
| k-s[WORK] | procto: right | 22:27 |
| procto | so I'm thinking you can have a single surface, with text on it | 22:27 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: please do, we do that in canola and works fast | 22:27 |
| procto | so only one surface is handled | 22:27 |
| procto | and you're just moving it up and down | 22:27 |
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| k-s[WORK] | procto: and when you move it one item up? | 22:27 |
| trevarthan | they are widgets, actually, but they're virtual. They're not like GTK widgets or anything. But they are their own objects. | 22:27 |
| k-s[WORK] | procto: you'd have to recreate it... horrible, managing 10-20 items are not slow | 22:28 |
| procto | k-s[WORK]: the whole thing is larger than the screen. So you can move it up and down | 22:28 |
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| jjazz | I'm looking for an RSS reader for the n800 that will grab the full version of the pages excerpted in an RSS feed. Anybody know of such an app? Thanks. | 22:28 |
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| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: I've been wondering if a linked list would be better for the scroll widget than a normal python list too. Then I could have a pointer to the viewport's top edge and not have to walk the entire widget item list every time I render. | 22:31 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: python list is vector but with smart implementation, it's fast if you append() | 22:31 |
| procto | why can't you have a pointer with the normal list? | 22:31 |
| trevarthan | hmmm... I suppose I just need to access it by index. I've been looping it. | 22:32 |
| syntux | guys, whats the default root@nokia password?, trying to connect via SSH | 22:32 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: no, use iterators (for element in list) | 22:33 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: that's not slow, possible something else | 22:33 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: why iterators? | 22:33 |
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| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: iterators are optimized to do iterations over sequences or any objects | 22:34 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: list iterators are fast | 22:34 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: you sure they aren't just fancy interfaces to the normal looping constructs? | 22:34 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: yes, but it's the fastest way | 22:34 |
| k-s[WORK] | if you do "for i in xrange(len(list)): list[i]" it's slower | 22:35 |
| trevarthan | got any documentation to that? I've never seen that claim. | 22:36 |
| k-s[WORK] | some, 1) http://www.python.org/doc/essays/list2str.html | 22:36 |
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| k-s[WORK] | 2) http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSpeed/PerformanceTips | 22:37 |
| k-s[WORK] | hope it helps | 22:37 |
| trevarthan | yeah. thanks. | 22:38 |
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| trevarthan | of course, pygame is almost always the bottleneck in practice (according to religious use of cProfiler), but I do have a few places where I could improve python calculations. (mostly in the scroll widget itself) | 22:39 |
| pupnik | if that endgaget device were the successor i'd buy it in a heartbeat. the keyboard gives you plenty of buttons - only the dpad is worrisome | 22:39 |
| pupnik | but if it is low-resistance (i.e. not a hard click) it's a win | 22:40 |
| jjazz | pupnik: a keyboard is the last thing I want on the thing. For real work, I have an external keyboard that I usually leave at work. For just carrying it around, the stylus and my thumbs are more than good enough. | 22:40 |
| jjazz | keboard = lots of bulk for nothing | 22:41 |
| pupnik | for stand-up texting with thumbs | 22:41 |
| milhouse | woah | 22:41 |
| pupnik | for right-hand side buttons for games without alienating the buziness people | 22:41 |
| milhouse | now i know where all my storage has gon | 22:41 |
| milhouse | e | 22:41 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: you have to reduce usage of blit | 22:41 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: do you have anything to manage your objects? | 22:41 |
| milhouse | just did a backup of my n800 - 176MB! | 22:41 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: like what need to be repainted? | 22:41 |
| milhouse | normally about 30MB | 22:41 |
| k-s[WORK] | http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/2007/04/03/pygame-smart-group-and-sprite-implementations/ | 22:42 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: no, not yet. I thought about that this morning. Only a few regions of the screen need to be repainted, but I'm currently repainting everything all the time. | 22:42 |
| k-s[WORK] | trevarthan: this points to my code | 22:42 |
| k-s[WORK] | it will be useful for you | 22:42 |
| milhouse | what the hell have i installed which has filled up /home/user to that extent... | 22:42 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: thanks! | 22:43 |
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| jjazz | milhouse: du -h | 22:43 |
| procto | k-s[WORK]: are you gustavo barbieri? | 22:44 |
| milhouse | yeah: /home/user/.osso_rss_feed_reader | 22:44 |
| NoOneNo | n00b alert - Just got a 770 and was wondering if anyone had made - look into making it a Bluetooth Audio Gateway? | 22:44 |
| procto | just curious, since the handle doesn't match the name | 22:44 |
| milhouse | it's huge | 22:44 |
| milhouse | and i've only got about 6 feeds setup | 22:44 |
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| milhouse | 151MB in that directory alone | 22:44 |
| k-s[WORK] | procto: yep | 22:44 |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: like, audio input -> bluetooth output? | 22:44 |
| milhouse | sigh... RSS Feed Reader - what a sack of shit | 22:44 |
| NoOneNo | more like bluetooth input for audio output | 22:45 |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: ah. what's the application for that? | 22:45 |
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| jjazz | milhouse: Is there a better one available? | 22:45 |
| NoOneNo | basically to have a bluetooth phone pump out call/voice data to the Nokia for it to pump out audio | 22:45 |
| procto | k-s[WORK]: thanks for that moin python performance tips link. looks like they updated it a lot since the last time I looked. | 22:45 |
| milhouse | jjazz: I believe there might be | 22:45 |
| NoOneNo | if you were to mount the 770 as a stereo/gps/bluetooth gateway for a car | 22:45 |
| procto | I forgot some of those things | 22:45 |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: so you're only interested in the headset profile, not A2DP? | 22:46 |
| jjazz | milhouse: If you find it, please do report back. I'm interested. | 22:46 |
| NoOneNo | correct | 22:46 |
| procto | going to optimize some of my python :> | 22:46 |
| milhouse | jjazz: can't recall it now, but there are alternatives and they would sturggle to be worse than what Nokia ship | 22:46 |
| procto | I use rssfwd.com as my rss reader | 22:46 |
| jjazz | milhouse: I'm particularly interested in something that prefetches the pages referred to in feeds that only come with excerpts. | 22:46 |
| procto | forwards everything to my gmail | 22:46 |
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| jjazz | (I'd like to read those pages on the subway) | 22:46 |
| procto | you can create a special gmail account for it | 22:47 |
| procto | sort them into labels | 22:47 |
| procto | if you want | 22:47 |
| milhouse | jjazz: the unfortunate thing is the stock feed reader integrates quite nicely with the home page, but it's so buggy it's effectively useless for any serious use (and now i find it's filling up the whole of my internal memory) | 22:47 |
| jjazz | milhouse: Yeah, and I've had my feeds disappear on me a couple times too. | 22:47 |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: there's no current work being done with that right now, but we do have A2DP support in some apps. The Bluetooth ALSA project provides a headset profile software implementation <-> ALSA gateway. You can get a binary package for maemo here: http://www.guardiani.us/index.php/N800_custom_packages#Bluetooth_ALSA | 22:47 |
| trevarthan | hope that didn't get cut off by the 255 char limit.... | 22:48 |
| NoOneNo | thanks | 22:48 |
| milhouse | was about to reflash to verify some bugs, i'll avoid adding any new feeds in future. | 22:48 |
| NoOneNo | did it end in _ALAS ? | 22:48 |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: Yes. so after you've got that installed, it's just a matter of... | 22:48 |
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| trevarthan | configuring bluetooth alsa to connect to the phone and play through alsa. | 22:49 |
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| pupnik | what native playback rates doe n770 support for audio samples? | 22:49 |
| NoOneNo | I will definately look into it, thanks for the heads-up | 22:50 |
| pupnik | does the sound backend do resampling in hardware or software? | 22:50 |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: you'll probably need either red pill mode or to be root and use `dpkg -i ...` to install those packages. I screwed up the packaging a bit and need to fix it. | 22:50 |
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| trevarthan | they work fine though. | 22:50 |
| trevarthan | you just can't click them from the browser and install them directly without turning on red pill mode. | 22:51 |
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| procto | Necessity is the mother of python scripts | 22:53 |
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| procto | Anyone have experience using the Maemo SDK under VMWare? | 22:53 |
| pupnik | yes | 22:55 |
| trevarthan | it's too bad the n800 doesn't have a line-in jack. Then I could use it as a stereo A2DP adapter for my desktop while I'm at work. | 22:55 |
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| procto | pupnik: how was your experience? | 22:55 |
| procto | pupnik: does it work? | 22:55 |
| procto | my USB ports are fried, so I'm going to be developing at home. Then transferring built packages to work | 22:56 |
| procto | where I'll be transferring them to the device | 22:56 |
| procto | or maybe uploading them | 22:56 |
| procto | and downloading to the device | 22:56 |
| NoOneNo | but you are able to stream into the n800 via ad2p now? How CPU intensive would the headset profile be though? it can be at a much lower bit rate | 22:56 |
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| unique311 | tired of my computer making a noise everytime someone says N800 | 22:57 |
| NoOneNo | also, do you know if people have had success with this package on the 770, (my 770 is 3 days old so I really don't know to much yet) | 22:57 |
| pupnik | it worked procto, just took up a lot of unneded space for me | 22:57 |
| procto | ah, k | 22:57 |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: AFAIK, A2DP is a one way outbound profile. I'm not sure if Bluetooth ALSA has the ability to act as an A2DP sink (like a headset does). | 22:57 |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: not sure if it works on the 770. probably though. | 22:57 |
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| * k-s[WORK] is away: Gone away for now. | 22:58 | |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: headsetd (the headset profile daemon) is a bit less resource intensive than a2dpd, I think. | 22:58 |
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| trevarthan | but I've never tried it on the n800, just on linux desktops. | 22:59 |
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| trevarthan | No open source linux SIP phones for the n800 yet, so I haven't had a reason to try my BT mono headsets. | 22:59 |
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| Luria | maemo does need a multitouch picture viewer | 23:13 |
| Luria | so i have an emergency subway map | 23:14 |
| Luria | or in case i have to go to some godforsaken place in the outer boroughs | 23:14 |
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| Shurik | hola | 23:15 |
| _Monkey | niihau, Shurik | 23:15 |
| Shurik | tupo tapu | 23:16 |
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| Shurik | okay, so who's got 8 gig SD in n800? | 23:16 |
| Shurik | I just got refunded for the destroyed one... so now I'm thinking | 23:16 |
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| alterego | Has anyone managed to make use of the serial port on the N800 or N770? | 23:17 |
| Shurik | tablet has a serial port? | 23:18 |
| NoOneNo | <trevarthan> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/BluetoothHeadset?highlight=%2528headset%2529 | 23:18 |
| Shurik | well, other then usb | 23:18 |
| NoOneNo | though they are talking about a bluetooth headset for the 770 they mention that the alsa plugin will not work | 23:18 |
| NoOneNo | do you think its accurate, I'm probably still going to try, just a little disappointing | 23:18 |
| alterego | I guess that's what the pinout is on the PCB .. | 23:20 |
| Luria | Shurik, which 8gb did it destroy? | 23:20 |
| Shurik | Patriot | 23:20 |
| alterego | Erm, well, the pin contacts. It looks a lot like the Nokia data cable connection style. | 23:20 |
| Luria | im on the fence between buying a kingston and waiting for the overpriced sandisk offerings | 23:20 |
| Shurik | think it will make a difference? | 23:21 |
| Luria | i didnt even know they made sdhc cards | 23:21 |
| Shurik | yeah | 23:21 |
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| Shurik | well, newegg.com is great, but I'm thinking where else can I get SD from | 23:22 |
| Shurik | because they might not refund me a second card :) | 23:22 |
| Shurik | when n800 toasts it | 23:22 |
| Luria | i was going to make an exception and buy in store | 23:22 |
| Shurik | *gasp* | 23:23 |
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| Luria | what, paying tax+rent surcharge or that there are b&m stores that sell then | 23:23 |
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| Luria | what, paying tax+rent surcharge or that there are b&m stores that sell then | 23:23 |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: that page gives you an excellent explanation for why the n800 doesn't have native headset and a2dp profiles. yes. btsco is the "old" way of doing bluetooth alsa. | 23:23 |
| Luria | crap | 23:23 |
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| trevarthan | NoOneNo: The page they link to: http://bluetooth-alsa.sourceforge.net/build.html Is what you're downloading if you use those packages I sent you the link to. I just took that code, compiled it, and packaged it. | 23:24 |
| Luria | is there the possibility of bt headset (with mic) on the horizon? | 23:24 |
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| trevarthan | Luria: application specific? Yes. In general for the n800 (i.e. built in to the OS)? I have no idea, but I'd say probably not. | 23:25 |
| Luria | no, i meant a maemo stack | 23:26 |
| Luria | shame | 23:26 |
| trevarthan | Let's put it this way: I haven't read anything about it in the maemo stack. | 23:26 |
| trevarthan | nothing current anyway. | 23:26 |
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| Luria | almost as nonsensical as the unicode support | 23:26 |
| Luria | anyone know offhand if microb has rtl support? | 23:27 |
| trevarthan | Luria: there is a very good reason why bluetooth audio is difficult on maemo. It's a hardware issue. You have to do it in software, and that requires ALSA unless you write your own code. | 23:27 |
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| trevarthan | They would either have to switch all apps off of gstreamer and move to alsa, or they would have to rewrite bluetooth-alsa in gstreamer, or provide alsa GST sinks. And they'd need software versions of all the DSP codecs too. It's a big problem. | 23:28 |
| Luria | silly design, then | 23:29 |
| Luria | but still silly | 23:29 |
| trevarthan | But hopefully we'll start seeing BT support directly in applications soon. | 23:29 |
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| pupnik | ITOS has an alsa backend - so why do see... configure: error: No linkable libasound was found | 23:30 |
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| trevarthan | pupnik: dunno. you got the dev packages installed? | 23:30 |
| Luria | if they arent going to give us that, they could at least sell the nokia headphones in the us :-) | 23:30 |
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| pupnik | i see nothing alsa or asound in my apt-cache search | 23:31 |
| trevarthan | Luria: yeah. no kidding. :) I lost mine. | 23:31 |
| pupnik | or on the device | 23:31 |
| Luria | trevarthan, so did i | 23:31 |
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| trevarthan | pupnik: not sure about the old ITOS. I built bluetooth-alsa and mplayer for 2007 though. | 23:31 |
| Luria | wanna know how i got a new pair - not that its going to help you... | 23:31 |
| trevarthan | sure | 23:32 |
| Luria | if anything, it will add to your despair | 23:32 |
| Luria | i went to the nokia flagship store | 23:32 |
| Luria | on 5th avenue | 23:32 |
| Luria | and asked | 23:32 |
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| trevarthan | I think I remember you telling this story a while back. | 23:32 |
| Luria | they didnt even have an sku to order it | 23:32 |
| Luria | yeah | 23:32 |
| trevarthan | they just gave you a sample model, right? | 23:33 |
| Luria | from the back room for free | 23:33 |
| trevarthan | :) | 23:33 |
| Luria | i even offered to pay | 23:33 |
| trevarthan | that sucks. too bad it isn't a more common jack. | 23:33 |
| Luria | fwiw, i did see some euro sites selling it | 23:33 |
| Luria | i actually have to return a set of iphone eshures | 23:34 |
| Luria | they *sorta* work | 23:34 |
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| trevarthan | My ipod headphone work fine. Just uses the onboard mic. | 23:34 |
| Luria | well, yeah, but the point is to have the mic :-/ | 23:35 |
| Luria | and arent you too bright to have an ipod :-p | 23:35 |
| trevarthan | doesn't bug me too much. the one on the n800 works fine. | 23:35 |
| trevarthan | no, I'm starting to think I'm stupid for having an n800. :) | 23:36 |
| Luria | not liking it? | 23:36 |
| NoOneNo | the headphone jack on the nokia is not a standard 3.5mm jack? is that only true of the N800 or the 770 as well? | 23:36 |
| trevarthan | I could still be using my ipod. It's cheaper, and I don't have to write any code to make it work. | 23:36 |
| trevarthan | No A2DP on the ipod though. That was one of my selling points for the n800. | 23:37 |
| Luria | NoOneNo, it is a standard jack plus an extra ring | 23:37 |
| NoOneNo | so pluggin regular headphones does not line the left,right,ground rings up? | 23:37 |
| NoOneNo | plugging in | 23:37 |
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| trevarthan | NoOneNo: no, it does. | 23:38 |
| trevarthan | And it's pretty slick. normal headphones work fine, AND the mic on the n800 works at the same time. | 23:38 |
| NoOneNo | oh good, sorry could confused by the above... | 23:38 |
| NoOneNo | could = got | 23:39 |
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| trevarthan | NoOneNo: it's just not a common jack. nobody makes replacement headphones *with* the mic for it. | 23:40 |
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| NoOneNo | but for the bluetooth headset profile thats still pretty good, stereo jack connected to car amplifier, internal mic still working for voice | 23:40 |
| trevarthan | right. | 23:41 |
| NoOneNo | though I would imagine the problem of voice echo cancellation will be a problem | 23:41 |
| NoOneNo | unless its already doing that in the DSP | 23:41 |
| trevarthan | or find a plug that fits and wire the mic anywhere you want. | 23:41 |
| NoOneNo | part | 23:41 |
| trevarthan | I doubt it does that in the dsp. | 23:41 |
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| trevarthan | My friend was complaining that he could hear himself when I was testing SIP with him on "speaker". | 23:42 |
| trevarthan | complaint went away when I plugged in my ipod headphones. | 23:43 |
| NoOneNo | hmmm, that would suck ... how bad was the echo, un-doable? | 23:44 |
| disq | so, new themes? | 23:46 |
| disq | i napped again btw, what's wrong with me. sleeping 20 hours a day | 23:46 |
| trevarthan | NoOneNo: not sure. he heard it, not me. | 23:47 |
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| trevarthan | disq: no new themes yet. k-s[WORK] and _Handful_ had an excellent conversation with me regarding canola and EFL though. | 23:48 |
| disq | in-channel? i should check logs | 23:48 |
| disq | i just didn't like the Pawn scripting and the unclean macros, but efl looks good to me otherwise | 23:49 |
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| trevarthan | disq: yeah. I pitched a fit. They told me to shut up. It was good stuff. | 23:49 |
| trevarthan | I just don't like rewriting everything. | 23:49 |
| disq | need a bigger team | 23:50 |
| trevarthan | yup | 23:50 |
| trevarthan | apparently EFL has a scroll widget of it's own these days. so we could use that. | 23:50 |
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| metatron | ah the joys of dinky "free" wifi | 23:51 |
| trevarthan | Oh, and k-s[WORK] smacked me on the head and told me how retarded my scroll widget code is and a really obvious way to speed it up and reduce memory usage by a lot. | 23:51 |
| disq | yeah i saw the videos in planet.maemo.org | 23:51 |
| disq | constructive critisizm, that's good | 23:52 |
| trevarthan | Yeah. I should have seen that tweak. I probably would have given time. It's really obvious. | 23:52 |
| k-s[AWAY_WORK] | disq: not that bad... I didn't told him that bad words | 23:52 |
| k-s[AWAY_WORK] | :-) | 23:52 |
| trevarthan | whatever. my head's still sore. you made me cry. | 23:52 |
| trevarthan | :) | 23:53 |
| metatron | oh no | 23:53 |
| k-s[AWAY_WORK] | :-D | 23:53 |
| metatron | dont cry | 23:53 |
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| Luria_ | its not like canola is better :-) | 23:53 |
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| chenca | "Developers May Cry" | 23:53 |
| trevarthan | disq: so we might have a 1.1 release soon with "trev's scroll widget sucks much less now" as the primary reason. | 23:54 |
| k-s[AWAY_WORK] | trevarthan: don't forget to credit me | 23:54 |
| k-s[AWAY_WORK] | :-D | 23:54 |
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| disq | could make it 1.0.2 instead | 23:54 |
| Luria_ | its the background refresh patch in the deb or only in svn? | 23:55 |
| disq | also "ooh look we fixed the theme some more, thanks to these guys" type of thing | 23:55 |
| trevarthan | k-s[WORK]: yeah, but who do I cite you as? k-s? k-s[WORK]? k-s[AWAY-WORK]? I'm so confused. | 23:55 |
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| trevarthan | Luria: svn only. just committed it today. | 23:55 |
| Luria_ | looking forward to the next release | 23:57 |
| trevarthan | yeah, me too. it's gonna not suck as much. :) | 23:57 |
| Luria_ | may i ask why the scanner is separate? | 23:57 |
| k-s[AWAY_WORK] | trevarthan: Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri | 23:57 |
| k-s[AWAY_WORK] | trevarthan: that's my name | 23:57 |
| trevarthan | ok. I'll be sure to tell everyone you verbally abused me. :) | 23:58 |
| Luria_ | and/or doesnt use the native indexing? | 23:58 |
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| disq | by native indexing do you mean metalayer? | 23:58 |
| trevarthan | Luria: separate because most people don't change media that much. and that's how canola did it. (I think) | 23:58 |
| trevarthan | native indexing: Is that possible? | 23:59 |
| Luria | is metalayer the native dialog approach? | 23:59 |
| disq | trevarthan: canole has a service running in the background looking for mmc mount/unmount signals | 23:59 |
| Luria | yeah, thats it | 23:59 |
| trevarthan | right. | 23:59 |
| trevarthan | and then canola-conf runs to scan stuff. | 23:59 |
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