IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-07-31

pupnikThe series of Pan-Mutantean Congresses which he had helped to organize forced him to see a connection between Hate-filled genetic bigotry and Pink imperialism in Asgard. At the same time, communism was representing itself as the foe of both genetic bigotry and imperialism, and for many of the oppressed peoples throughout the world the communist claim had become attractive. To the S.L.A.K. Squad it seemed that Pudluster's new "pink" i00:01
erstazipupnik, heh00:02
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trevarthanAsgard, eh? city of the gods?00:03
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pupnik'pink' has meaning in SubGenius mythology00:04
trevarthanhey, off topic, does anyone know of an MIME Email validator web interface I could use? I've got a questionable email I need to double check.00:05
pupnikDas topic ist Pink, mein herr!00:05
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pupnikon itos2006 opera, i rarely can type into the address bar with synergy00:22
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pupnikit's it2006-49 with keesj's synergy-maemo Version: 1.3.1-100:23
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pupnikmaemo-gtk-im-switch xim  solved the typing into opera problem00:24
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_MonkeyGuten Tag, sbaturzio!00:59
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joshinSynergy on the 770 is just amusing...  Now I need to hack the stand a bit and track down a news/stock ticker and bigger clock.01:10
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celestehhey all01:21
erstazihi celesteh01:22
celestehi'm on OS X and I want to sinatll glimmr01:22
celestehand I'm having a hard time building it01:22
celestehmono is supposed to be cross-platform, so theoretically, if i got it built, i could run it on maemo01:22
celesteh(glimmr is a mono-based flickr uploader)01:23
erstaziah, I wondered when I did a google search01:23
celestehis there a binary distro of it lurking out there someplace?01:23
celestehwould i be happier just trying to write a python script?01:23
celestehis there any way to get scratchbox going on OS X non-intel macs?01:23
erstazicelesteh, hmm, has a search on came no avail?01:24
erstaziI swore there was something for scratchbox for ppc01:24
erstazibut I could be wrong01:24
celestehi haven't found anything, but i might be looking in the wrong places01:24
celesteh<-- looking at now01:24
celestehthe deps for building glimmr are very linux-y01:25
erstaziwhat os do you have on your nokia?01:26
erstazialso 770 or n800?01:26
celestehlatest OS01:26
erstaziso IT200701:27
celestehno glimmr on maemo.org01:27
erstazinow, to make sure, you need glimmr on your n80001:27
celestehmaybe i should just write a script01:28
celestehi'm looking for a flickr uploader and it was the most promising looking01:28
erstazicelesteh, one thing to know about, your nokia uses ARM arch, so if its not available, it needs ported01:28
erstazioh ok01:28
erstazithere might be another one on maemo01:28
erstazilet me do some searching for ya01:28
celestehtheoretically, mono is like java01:28
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celestehmy feature requirements are:  does titles, tags and descriptions.  can deal with only having an intermittent network connection.01:29
NeoStriderhello my friends!01:29
celestehhi neo01:29
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erstazicelesteh, the latter is normal heh01:29
erstazihello NeoStrider01:30
celestehi want something that acts like a mail client . . . with an outbox01:30
celestehor kind of like that01:30
celestehi really like the n800, but i got for flickr and blogger and i'm having troubles with both01:30
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celestehat least i can log in to flickr with the opera browser, which is more than i can do with blogger01:31
erstazicelesteh, NFlick01:31
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erstazicelesteh, before jumping on it, let me ask some of the veterans of n770/800 a question01:33
erstazior someone01:33
_Monkeyi heard someone was working on getting something working along those lines, but nokia do not officially support a2dp01:33
erstazi_Monkey, forget or someone01:33
_Monkeyerstazi, I didn't have anything matching or someone01:33
erstazi_Monkey, forget someone01:33
_Monkeyerstazi: I forgot someone01:33
erstazipupnik, can someone install a 770 app on an n800?01:34
pupnikyes, usually01:34
celestehwait, is nflick an uploader?01:35
NeoStridergot it01:35
erstazicelesteh, not too sure01:35
NeoStrideroh no01:35
NeoStrideroh it01:35
celestehit doesn't mention that in the features01:35
NeoStriderits just a browser01:35
erstaziNFlick is an application to quickly browse your flickr photos sets. A cafe-like “I want to show you that photo” solution.01:35
NeoStriderthe "oh no" was becouse I suddenly saw "Flickr Browser"01:36
celestehah, no, what I need is an uploader01:36
celestehit's cool01:36
NeoStriderthe browser doesnt handle it?01:37
erstaziNeoStrider, I think celesteh is looking for a mass uploader01:37
erstazibut I might be wrong01:37
celestehit does, but i want to be able to tag, title and describe the photos while i'm hanging out at, say, a campground, and have it do uploads for me later when i get to a hotspot01:37
NeoStrideris there such a thing on desktop?01:37
NeoStrider(im new to flickr...just got my account last friday)01:38
erstaziNeoStrider, yeah I have seen it01:38
erstaziI am not a flickr user01:38
NeoStrideryeah...but Im quite away from those web 2.0 websites01:38
celestehheh.  they're handy01:38
erstazicelesteh, I got a blogger app01:39
erstaziit might be helpful to you01:39
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celestehah, that crashes for me01:39
erstazihello Tu13es01:39
celestehearly and often01:39
erstazicelesteh, hmmm thats odd01:39
NeoStriderhello tul3es01:39
erstazicelesteh, I thought I saw a more stable version of that floating somewhere01:40
infobotNeoStrider meant: hello Tul3es01:40
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Tu13esit's a 101:40
Tu13esnot an l01:40
NeoStriderI need some lenses01:40
erstaziI use tab to finish nicks heh01:41
erstazibut I still will get the wrong one01:41
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erstazithe thing is, in large channels, you end up tabbing through hundreds of nicks to get the right one01:44
erstazior just typing an extra character, but I think 2 characters are usually enough01:44
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celestehok, this is cool:
celestehi just need a UI01:59
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* NeoStrider leaves his chair in such a hurry...02:00
celestehbon appetit!02:00
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pupnik_btw i've seen the WSOD three times but removing the battery solved em02:19
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* NeoStrider just sat down02:28
NeoStriderpupnik_: saw it just once...but had a few strange reboots02:29
NeoStriderthe last of them, had a nice nice garbled screen02:29
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NeoStriderhi jbinder02:54
jbinderDoes anyone know if they make Checkers for the 770 with OS2006SE?02:55
jbinderLike Chess... but Checkers.02:56
jbinderLol... I searched for it online at several sites.02:56
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NeoStriderlet me check02:58
NeoStridernot that I have seen03:00
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pupnik_checkers would be a nice first hildon/gtk project - or pygame03:04
pupnik_gtkboard - many board games in one program03:06
jbinderWhat about a sliding puzzle possibly? Where 16 pieces of a puzzle and you switch them around to get them to form the right shape.  Some versions of it have it with numbers 1-16 and you have to put them in order.03:06
pupnik_i think that is part of the puzzle collection03:06
pupnik_NeoStrider is probably building you a checkers game as we speak :)03:07
jbinderIf/When it's finished, where will it be?03:07
jbinderGarage.maemo.prg?03:07 not that fast03:07
pupnik_did you see gtkboard?03:07
jbinderLooking it up now.03:07
NeoStriderjbinder: give me a url and we may build it for you03:07
NeoStrider770 or n800?03:07
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NeoStridergood...I have it here03:08
* pupnik_ is playing checkers03:08
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erstaziugh kids03:10
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jbinderpupnik_: GTKboard is for the 770?03:11
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pupnik_nah but if we're lucky you'll have a whole bunch of board games for 770 soon03:12
jbinderNeoStrider: What do you mean give you a URL?03:12
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jbinderI have a few already. Just not checkers or the slidey thing.03:12
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pupnik_32 games03:12
NeoStridergive me the url to a checkers game03:12
pupnik_i don't have one03:12
pupnik_apt-get source NeoStrider03:13
jbinderGtkboard has checkers in it.03:13
pupnik_it's convenient when the host box is debian03:13
NeoStriderim not in the repositories =-P03:13
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pupnik_ok starting now03:14
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jbinderThere's a Flash version... Lol.03:14
erstazisorry about that, some network flips there03:14 can play that on the device too03:15
jbinderBut not on an airplane... Can I?03:15
NeoStriderjust save the webpage and open offline with the browser03:15
NeoStriderits offline?03:16
NeoStrider"<pupnik_> NeoStrider is probably building you a checkers game as we speak :)"03:16
pupnik_lets see that was ... 2 minutes to port 32 games :)03:17
infobotNeoStrider meant: "<pupnik_> pupnik_ is probably building you a checkers game as we speak :)"03:17
pupnik_no i just started when you said you didn't have the source :P03:17
jbinderI didn't know flash works.03:17
jbinderYoutube didn't work so I didn't think anything flash would.03:18
jbinderYoutube said download flash.03:18
jbinderIs there Flash 9er for this?03:18
erstaziFlash 7 I believe03:18
erstaziI could be wrong though03:18
jbinderDoes it come with it?03:18
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erstazijbinder, not that I know of, I know you can get Flash 7 for the ARM arch03:18
erstazilast I checked I don't have flash,... let me verify03:19
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jbinderOh... It has flash 603:19
jbinderI right clicked and it said so.03:19
erstazijbinder, 770 or n800?03:20
NeoStriderhey...isnt that flash 7?03:20
NeoStrideri could swear it was 703:20
erstaziI thought it was flash 703:20
NeoStriderit was flash 8 that didnt make to the linux03:20 won't let me play a video03:20
NeoStrideryeah...but I did other flash stuff and it worked03:21
erstaziNeoStrider, I have flash903:21
erstazion GNU/Linux03:21
NeoStriderme too03:21
NeoStrideri mean, on device03:21
jbinderMe too.03:21
jbinderyeah no Flash 8.03:21
jbinderI have 6 on the 770 :\03:21
NeoStridermacromedia jumped flash 8 on linux03:21
NeoStriderjbinder:  are you sure it is not 7?03:21
jbinderIt said 6... I'm positive of that.03:22
NeoStrideryou're the flash man03:22
NeoStriderim going to test now is my mono runtime03:22
NeoStriderhope it works03:23
* pupnik_ plays checkers on 770 :P03:24
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pupnik_the gomputer is hard :(03:24
erstaziugh, opera freezing up03:24
erstaziin the filesystem, where are Audio Clips, Documents, Images, Video clips03:27
erstazithey sure are not under /home/user/03:27
_MonkeyHmm.  No matches for that, erstazi.03:27
erstazinever mind03:27
erstazils -al03:27
erstaziNeoStrider, I found it03:28
erstaziNeoStrider, that's why I typed never mind... I felt like an idiot I forgot .directories03:29
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NeoStriderI didnt saw that03:30
erstaziNeoStrider, its ok03:30
pupnik_i miss locate and updatedb :/03:31
NeoStriderMDK: are you there?03:32
jbinderI tried saving the flash page for offline.03:37
jbinderThe page loads but the flash swf isn't on the sytstem so it's an empty space.03:37
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NeoStridertry editing the html03:38
NeoStridermaybe the reference is wrong03:38
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erstaziwhat does hildonized mean?03:40
NeoStrideradapted to the maemo interface03:41
NeoStriderthe tablets do run pure GTK stuff03:41
NeoStriderbut it looks ugly ,becouse of the apearance of the rest of the system03:41
NeoStriderso we hildonize the gtk apps03:41
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erstaziI need a GUI editor, because vi or nano doesn't cut it on this small screen03:42
erstaziI prefer vi03:42
erstaziis that decent?03:42
NeoStriderdoes the job nicely03:43
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pupnik_erstazi: you can change the font size in xterm with the +/- rocker button on the top of the device03:45
NeoStrider"living and learning"!03:46
NeoStridernever knew that03:46
erstazipupnik_, I know, but its easier to use a GUI text editor with this stylus03:46
erstaziheh03:46 doesn't exist anymore03:46
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pupnik_also if your xterm has a hard-to-read courier font, you have an old version.  the newer version has a much improved font03:47
erstazithats where they said the ARM deb was03:47
erstazipupnik_, I have the advanced xterm which is newer03:47
erstaziNeoStrider set me straight last night03:47
erstazior the night before03:47
erstaziblack background color on white font03:47
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NeoStridermono running!04:09
NeoStriderslow startup, but running!04:09 console app worked too!!!04:11
erstazithe wpeditor_1.01-1_armel.deb is corrupt04:11
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kamihackerNeoStrider, congrats04:11
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NeoStriderthanks, kamihacker04:12
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kamihackeranyone knows where the pairing logs go on the 770 ?04:16
kamihackerbtooth pairing that is04:16
erstazithere ya go04:20
erstazi is a must needed one!04:21
erstazibye NeoStrider04:21
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erstazislimserver is great with the 77004:24
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erstazihello abock and jjazz04:26
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_Monkeyhi, theefer05:07
theeferanyone here ordered an N800 from Japan?05:08
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theeferI've been looking at expansys website and I can't figure out what's the difference between the US and the UK version (large price difference), no luck on Google or other FAQs either..05:08
pupnik_in the UK and europe, everything is more expensive05:09
pupnik_except for good food05:09
theeferwell is there any reason to buy a more expensive UK import instead of a US one? guarrantee maybe?05:09
theeferpupnik_: food is even cheaper in Japan actually ;-)05:10
pupnik_i don't know your local laws.  are you an xmms dev?05:11
theeferI'm an xmms2 dev05:11
theeferlocal laws? actually I'm from Europe, heading back to Switzerland in November, so I will also need to check the guarrantee situation..05:11
pupnik_nice.  i love xmms but i want it to stay on top in fluxbox, and it uses outdated interface to stay on top and be sticky05:12
pupnik_trying xmms205:13
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theeferxmms2 has kind of different model, with pluggable interfaces (running as clients of the music server). right now the GUI interfaces aren't very complete, but still it works fine :)05:14
pupnik_what's the command line invocation equivalent to xmms /mnt/hdd1/Othermp3/ ?05:16
pupnik_(just skimmed the manpage for it)05:16
pupnik_xmms2 add /mnt/hdd1/Othermp3/ was invalid05:17
theeferxmms2 radd /mnt/hdd1/Othermp3/05:17
theeferthe cli is also being rewritten at the moment.05:17
pupnik_'recursive add' is fine with me ty05:18
pupnik_if you want something ported to nokia just give a holler here :)  it's pretty easy usually05:19
erstazitheefer, honestly, you folks are doing a great job on xmms05:19
pupnik_xmms2 is different05:19
theeferpupnik_: thanks! If I end up buying an N800, I'm probably gonna try to write a GUI for it, would make a lovely remote :)05:19
theefererstazi: thanks! I'll forward that to our chan!05:20
erstazitheefer, 770 or n800 work great with slimserver05:20
erstazitheefer, and if xmms2 was ported, it would be a great combo to stream audio from slimserver05:20
theefererstazi: with a custom interface?05:21
theefer(for the slimserver I mean)05:21
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erstazitheefer, slimserver on the box that is broadcasting the stream?05:21
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theefererstazi: you meant controlling a slim device with 770/n800 right?05:22
erstazitheefer, well, yes sorry, doing svn and vnc'ing got confused05:23
theeferin the case of xmms2, I was thinking of an xmms2 client running on the n800, which would control either a local xmms2d server on the device, or a remote one on another computer (over tcp)05:23
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erstaziI haven't tried xmms2d server, but if it has better documentation than slimserver, I am game05:24
erstazislimserver is slow to response sometimes05:24
theefer there is doxygen and bindings doc, etc.05:25
erstazitheefer, thank you, I will take a stab at it this weekend, (bookmarking it)05:26
theeferthere are 1-2 web interfaces, but they might not be as adapted/pretty on the N800 as the one I see from the slimserver.05:26
theeferlet us know on #xmms2 if you have any problem or cool results!05:26
erstazitheefer, I don't ever point my 770 at the slimserver05:26
erstaziI make a playlist and let it go, until my wife adds songs,... then I get miffed heh05:26
* pupnik_ mutters 'nfs'05:27
theefererstazi: I see05:27
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erstaziwelcome back NeoStrider05:28
theeferI am not sure what the status of our icecast output plugin is atm, I've never used it myself. but at least one of our devs uses xmms2d to power his radio station05:28
NeoStriderwhats erstazi05:28
_Monkeyi think erstazi is happy that IT2006/IT2007 is based on debian05:28
NeoStridercouldnt be away for too long =-P05:28
erstazi_Monkey, forget erstazi05:28
_Monkeyerstazi: I forgot erstazi05:28
_Monkeyinfobot is, like, at
NeoStriderthanks _Monkey05:29
theeferMh so according to you guys, the US/UK version shouldn't be different models/packs, just different exports (and guarantee location) ?05:29
NeoStridergood good pet monkey...good boy05:29
erstazitheefer, where are you located?05:31
theefererstazi: in Japan at the moment, I'll go back to Europe (Switzerland) in december05:31
erstaziI miss Europe05:31
pupnikever see the movie 'Lost in Translation' theefer ?05:31
erstaziI was once there when in the military, then went back as civilian05:31
theeferpupnik: that movie is one of the reasons I'm here, so yes ;-)05:32
theefererstazi: where exactly?05:32
erstazitheefer, all the places I have been in Europe? Germany, France, UK, Denmark, Netherlands, Serbia/Kosovo05:34
erstaziand maybe some more places if I was not drunk at the time, I would remember05:34
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erstaziI didn't know xmms2 works on windows also, amazing05:35
erstazihello ajturner05:35
theefererstazi: nice. and where are you now?05:35
ajturnerhi erstazi05:35
erstazitheefer, the US05:35
erstazitheefer, sadly, I wanted to move to London but I was unsure at that point in my life05:36
theeferLondon is /so/ expensive though :-/05:36
_MonkeyHmm.  No matches for that, theefer.05:36
erstazitheefer, but I will help pupnik port if needed05:37
erstazitheefer, yes, very... but at the time, it looked promising, just maybe even for 6 months of my life05:37
theefererstazi: which part do you want to port actually? the cli client? the server? other clients?05:37
erstazimilton keynes looked more promising though05:37
pupnikwell there are good media clients for the tablets - i'm not really interested in more :)05:38
erstazitheefer, well, the CLI client will be much easier, I am not good at GUI design05:38
erstazipupnik, true05:38
erstazipupnik, I forgot, which do you use primarily on your 77005:38
theeferdoes clutter run on an n800/maemo?05:39
pupnikno music on it.  just mplayer for video05:39
erstazitheefer, let me check05:39
erstaziI do not see clutter in maemo.org05:40
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theeferI think I've heard of people talking about it but I don't know if it was highly experimental or something05:40
erstaziwell, I am rusty on porting to a different arch05:42
erstaziwhat is clutter?05:42
theeferit's a lib to make nice bling bling05:42
erstaziah I see05:43
milhouselooks like a new build of pidgin just landed05:46
milhouseshame there's no changelog05:46
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erstazimilhouse, do you use pidgin on your nokia?05:50
milhousei have done05:50
milhousefor irc mainly and a bit of aim05:50
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erstaziyeah, for me, pidgin and irc do not go hand and hand but it works great for aim, yahoo, etc05:50
erstazihi nomis and behdad05:54
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pupnikxmms2 still radd'ing :/05:57
theeferpupnik: how much stuff do you have in there?05:58
pupnik 2631 username    18   0 98984  46m 2656 S 80.2 12.3  28:42.96 xmms2d05:58
pupnikoh i dunno05:58
erstazipupnik, are you using xmms2 on your 770?05:59
erstazipupnik, what distro do you primarily use?05:59
pupniksidux! tracking debian sid -- stably!05:59
behdadhi erstazi05:59
erstaziI think I am going to make an ARM deb tonight05:59
erstazipupnik, heh06:00
theeferpupnik: I didn't think you were adding *all* your music to the playlist.. this is not really the most interesting way to use xmms2. you could have added the music to the mlib only instead, and use it to populate your playlist with what you want to play06:00
erstazipersonally, I prefer playlists,06:02
theefererstazi: mh, why?06:02
erstaziI don't like loading all my music into any player06:02
theeferI thought you meant loading all your music into the playlist06:03
erstazioh, I separate06:04
erstazisorry if I don't make any sense, I am becoming exhausted06:04
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pupniki'm an sdl and emu nutter06:07
NeoStriderwhats a nutter?06:13
pupnikBritish term for someone who is crazy or fanatical06:14
erstazipupnik, ah06:15
NeoStriderim a computer graphics nutter =-P06:16
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milhouse - I'd like to see more of this kind of thing from Nokia showcasing upcoming projects. And stuff. :)06:18
_Monkeysomebody said openmoko was NeoStrider's phone of choice =-)06:20
* NeoStrider drools06:20
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erstazihello slomo06:21
NeoStriderhello slomo06:22
erstaziI am going to start porting some debs for some apps06:23
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NeoStriderwhich apps?06:24
erstazithat I am not sure of, I had a list but I lost it somewhere haha, I am getting tired06:24
erstaziits probably now in svn somewhere accidently because I am getting tired06:25
erstazihello joshin_06:25
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pupnikerstazi: looking for something to do?06:26
erstazipupnik, sure, I closed my work06:26
pupnikwe could use a picodrive port06:26
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erstazigo for stable only?06:27
pupniklots of arm-optimized fun there06:27
erstazithose can be made debs right?06:28
pupnikour fceu and visual boy advance are slow :/06:28
pupnikmost of those are based on linux programs that also have debs06:28
erstazipupnik, is dh-make available for ARM I haven't checked06:28
pupnikit's a matter of ripping-out the gp2x specific stuff and integrating it into the upstream deb06:28
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pupnikin scratchbox you have debhelper 406:29
pupnikdh 5 isn't available afaik06:29
disqi don't even know what exactly debhelper does06:29
erstazipupnik, so I can use debhelper ( which says I can use it on all architectures06:34
erstazi5.0.42 is stable06:34
erstaziI am going to attempt the install06:35
pupnikerstazi: into scratchbox?06:35
erstazipupnik, yes, shortly06:36
pupnikusually i apt-get source from the host debian system, then cd into the package and run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b and see what breaks06:36
pupniks/then cd/then in scratchbox/06:37
infobotpupnik meant: usually i apt-get source from the host debian system, then in scratchbox into the package and run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b and see what breaks06:37
pupnikand then begins an evening of building dependencies or studying the configure script and removing portions of the package i don't need06:37
erstazipupnik, yeah, I didn't see fakeroot for ARM06:38
NeoStriderpupnik, but the packages are working 100% now?06:38
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NeoStrideryou get icons on the menu?06:38
pupnikno i didn't look into that06:39
pupnikbut strangely after installing xmaeme a pcsx icon appeared under extras06:39
pupnikthat wasn't there before06:39
joshinIs there a good media player in maemo for audio books?  One with a decent rewind/fast forward function instead of just skipping tracks...06:49
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erstazipupnik, I might do a few tonight, I have a store run to do06:51
erstazibut aliases make your life easier on a tablet06:51
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NeoStriderpupnik, what is that pcsx?06:54
pupnikplaystation emulator - just for fun06:54
pupniknot running yet.  probably about 1 fps06:55
NeoStriderbut hey06:56
NeoStriderthis icon apearance means two things:06:56
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NeoStrider1) the icons will apear after some time06:56
NeoStrider2) your system is seriously corrupt!06:56
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pupnikthere's a playstation emu for gp2x though that gets 10-30 fps (arm920 cpu)06:59
pupniksee youtube videos06:59
NeoStriderbut gp2x doesnt use X11,right?07:01
erstazi pupnik got a prop07:02
pupnikneither does mplayer :)07:02
erstazican I message you?07:02
pupnikyes i'm registered07:02
pupnikgo ahead07:03
NeoStriderbut gp2x uses a brother in ARM (im lame and im aware of it)07:06
NeoStriderwell, now im really going07:07
NeoStriderneed some sleep07:07
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Wzrd2anyone know if they will port the mozilla browser to the 770?07:58
Wzrd2how safe/stable is os2007 hacker edition?07:59
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erstaziWzrd2, last time I checked maemo, they do have a port for the mozilla browser that works with IT200608:04
Wzrd2yeah but not one with flash 9 support08:08
Wzrd2which sux08:08
erstazifor maemo, what I know is, there is only Flash708:09
erstaziWzrd2, thats what I know of08:09
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Wzrd2right! but the new version for the 880 runs with flash 908:10
Wzrd2800 I mean08:10
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Wzrd2erstazi, do u know if 2007 hacker edition is stable08:14
erstaziWzrd2, I haven't tried it08:14
erstaziif you find where the download is, they will say if it is stable08:15
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Wzrd2it says there are SOME bugs and it lists them08:16
Wzrd2but how stable is it with those bugs I wonder08:16
timelyxWzrd2: mozilla itself should run on the 77008:16
timelyxbut unfortunately official engineering effort isn't in that direction08:16
timelyxand the desktop team really likes changing all the apis, forcing all apps to reinvent their ui code annually08:17
Wzrd2I guess I have wait until the new mozilla can be ported to the 770.. I really want Flash 908:19
* timelyx is confused08:22
timelyxflash9 has no relation to anything except armel08:22
Wzrd2I want a browser which will display pages in flash 908:23
timelyxmozilla doesn't include flash, it like just about every browser imaginable (except webcore?)  supports NPAPI08:23
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Wzrd2current browsers on the 770 only go to flash 708:23
timelyxerr, no08:24
timelyxcurrent browsers don't care08:24
timelyxthe plugin that nokia ships for the 770 is flash708:24
timelyxbut if you were to e.g. install a flash9 plugin08:24
timelyxthen any browser that can use plugins at all would support flash908:24
Wzrd2actually the opera browser which comes with the 770 uses flash 7 and supposedly u can't install flash on the minimo browser08:25
Wzrd2people in here said there is no flash 9 plugin for the 77008:25
Wzrd2there isn't one yet that works with the 77008:28
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kamihackerWzrd2, it's some how stable but things like08:38
kamihackerWzrd2, I was chatting over xchat the other day and the on-screen keyboard wouldn't appear when I clicked the textbox08:38
kamihackerWzrd2, and multimedia support is not as good either08:38
kamihackerWzrd2, but you should try it an see if it's good enough for what you need08:39
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Wzrd2I was thinking about upgrading it but if the multimedia doesn't work well and other stuff i guess i'll wait until they port the new mozilla to the 77008:45
Wzrd2kami how would u downrade back if I don't like it? can u?08:45
kamihackerWzrd2, need to flash back08:46
kamihackerno other way08:46
Wzrd2ugh. I hate flashing08:46
kamihackerI don't think they will port mozilla to 77008:46
Wzrd2too easy a chance to brick08:46
kamihackerwhy would you need mozilla? opera is good enough in my opinion08:46
Wzrd2why don't you think so08:46
Wzrd2because it only supports flash 708:46
kamihackerI don't need a plethora of extensions on the 77008:46
Wzrd2alot of pages I go to use flash 908:46
kamihackerwith mozilla, it will be the same08:47
kamihackerotherwise there would be a need for a flash 9 plugin compiled for the 77008:47
Wzrd2the new mozilla for the 800 supports flash 908:47
kamihackerwhich doesn't exist, and I doubt it will exist08:47
kamihackerdifferent libraries08:47
Wzrd2it's on the main page of maemo08:47
kamihackerdifferent processor08:47
kamihackerno can do08:47
kamihacker770 and n800 are not similar enough to share that component08:48
kamihackerforget it08:48
_Monkeykamihacker: I forgot it08:48
kamihackerif you want flash9, get an n80008:48
Wzrd2test version of mozilla with flash 9 support08:48
kamihackerWzrd2, read what I just wrote08:48
Wzrd2I see that08:48
Wzrd2what revision of os is hacker edition 200708:49
kamihackerI doubt it's going to happen, because adobe flash team won't port flash 9 to a platform that is going to be left behind, and nokia won't motivate them financially since they are phasing out the 77008:49
kamihackerWzrd2, if you haven't read os2007 hacker edition, packs the opera that comes on os200608:49
kamihackerWzrd2, precisely because opera is complex and uses the flash 9 plug in and they couldn't make it work with diff libraries and processor08:50
`0660proprietary applications :/08:50
kamihackerWzrd2, did you read the whole release notes for os2007 HE ?08:50
kamihacker`0660, precisely08:50
Wzrd2I saw that but i'm thinking if the os is the correct version I could install the new mozilla and see if it works08:50
Wzrd2but I guess it won't work08:51
kamihackerif flash technology were open  people just would compile against the old OS and that's it08:51
`0660it will work, as long as you have a flash 9 plugin installed08:51
kamihackerWzrd2, it won't but feel free to give it a try08:51
Wzrd20660 the problem is that there is no flash 9 plug in for the 77008:51
`0660i know08:52
kamihackerWzrd2, yeah and it's most probably not going to be ported08:52
`0660and that's why it won't work with 700 no matter which browser you install :/08:52
timelyxWzrd2: the flash7 nokia shipped was actually hacked to have an improper api08:52
kamihackerWzrd2, point is if you sit and wait for it to happen, you are just wasting time that you could be using to see flash9 content on the n80008:52
timelyxbut the flash9 plugin shipped w/ the newer os2007-4 is normal and can be used w/ any browser08:53
Wzrd2timelyx but that is on the 800 though, right?08:53
timelyxbut it's just a binary08:53
timelyxan armel binary at that08:53
timelyxhas anyone considered just copying the thing to their 770?08:54
timelyxand trying it w/ minimo08:54
Wzrd2copying what thing08:54
timelyxthe plugin08:54
Wzrd2that's what I was thinking of trying08:54
Wzrd2but the plugin is for x8608:54
kamihackertimelyx, I think someone should have, problem is I am sure it's compiled against a new set of libs that work on the n800 only08:54
timelyxWzrd2: the flash9 plugin for the n800 is armel, not x8608:55
timelyxsince the device is armel, not x8608:55
Wzrd2shit I wasted money buying a 77008:55
Wzrd2I only found an x86 plugin08:55
* timelyx sighs08:56
timelyxfind someone w/ an n800!08:56
kamihackerWzrd2, you can always ebay it08:56
Wzrd2I don't trust buying electronics from ebay08:56
erstaziits sad that's repos for debian isn't kept up, I get a 404 when I add deb ./ to my sources.list08:56
Wzrd2unless it's new08:56
kamihackerWzrd2, sell yours get an n80008:57
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erstaziWzrd2, you could always port flash9 so you can use it on your 77008:57
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* timelyx sighs08:57
* timelyx doesn't have ldd08:57
Wzrd2i'm a newbie..I don't know shit about Linux or programming08:58
erstaziWzrd2, well, first, what OS do you have on your computer?08:58
* kamihacker looks at tigert 08:59
* kamihacker looks at timelyx 08:59
`0660you could start by ordering a C programming book from amazon :)09:00
erstaziWzrd2, my suggestion is read up on maemo.org09:00
* kamihacker decides not to listen09:00
timelyxah right09:00
timelyxyou need libpplayback-1.so09:00
timelyxthat *should* be the only requirement that isn't part of older releases09:01
Wzrd2read up on what?09:01
timelyxreverse engineering libplayback and providing NOP stubs would be fine09:01
Wzrd2on porting?09:01
timelyx(or you could just try to grab it when you grab flashplayer)09:01
erstaziWzrd2, before that, I am backtracking, you need to read up on how to use your 770 and what apps you need etc etc09:01
kamihackertimelyx, I think so, that's why the netradio  app won't work either09:01
timelyx(err, typing's hard)09:02
erstaziread up on *nix comands09:02
erstazikamihacker, and some people do not have enough money to buy a n800 yet09:02
Wzrd2yeah that's me... not enough money09:02
`0660even more people don't have the knowledge to port software :)09:03
erstazi770 == $129.99 or n800 == $500 +09:03
kamihackererstazi, I am among that group, hence I don't dwell, I make the choice to enjoy what I have09:03
erstazi`0660, well, I won't tell Wzrd2 about scratchbox yet09:03
theeferI thought you could find it for $350 in the US09:03
kamihackererstazi, $330 at last time I checked09:03
erstaziok then I am wrong09:03
erstazibut even so, thats double the price of a 77009:03
kamihackereven so, it's a $200 that I am not willing to spend either (not at the moment at least)09:04
erstazieither way, remember everyone, we were all newbies at once09:04
erstaziok Wzrd2, I want to give you a list of apps that you should install but as I said, you need to know the *nix basics before digging into your 77009:05
Wzrd2what's scratchbox09:05
_Monkeysomebody said scratchbox was like the glue that ties it all together09:05
Wzrd2what is *nix09:05
erstaziUnix, Linux..09:05
Wzrd2oh lol duh09:06
`0660erstazi, how about making a realistic roadmap for Wzrd2? like installing ubuntu and using it for a year before continuing to read :)09:06
erstazi`0660, I was getting there, patience grasshopper09:06
erstaziWzrd2, there are many good distros of linux out there, Ubuntu is a popular one, it is based on debian just like the OS that is on your 77009:07
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erstaziWzrd2, now, you can do whats called dual boot, so you can either boot to windows or linux09:08
erstazior, what I suggest you do first, is use whats called vmplayer which allows you to run a virtual operating system09:08
Wzrd2so install ubuntu as a dual boot on my desktop09:08
erstazior you could download an ISO (which I am sure you can google how to burn an ISO to CD) and run a LiveCD of Ubuntu09:09
Wzrd2I know how to burn isos09:09
erstazido that route09:09
erstazirun the LiveCD of Ubuntu, and you can get familiar before installing the OS onto your computer, because before you install, you need to repartition and other things09:10
erstazibut get familiar with *nix and how things work, you will enjoy it more, heck, I even have Photoshop running on Linux09:10
erstazibut there are *many* open source applications that will shock you with how great they are09:11
solmumahawhat's wrong with gimp then? (besides gui) :)09:12
erstaziknew someone was going to type something about that09:12
erstazisolmumaha, nothing, I already paid for Photoshop, why not use it? I am a web developer09:13
erstazibut I do use gimp, sometimes09:13
erstazibut I do notice a compression difference, just seems like photoshop can compress more efficiently09:13
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erstaziWzrd2, you can find LiveCD iso's at http://ubuntu.com09:14
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erstazihello bergie_ and jsmanrique09:18
timelyxkamihacker: amusing09:19
timelyxmost of those menu changes are pretty stupid of course09:19
timelyxthe hazard of intermingled components09:20
kamihackertimelyx, that's basically what is available, maybe the next HE09:20
jsmanriqueerstazi: hi!09:20
timelyxkamihacker: it shouldn't be too hard to work around the bookmark stuff09:20
timelyxi think i did in my notes09:20
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erstazijsmanrique, how are you?09:20
timelyxyeah, i worked around the bookmark thing for 3.200709:21
timelyxfeel free to try it on older versions :)09:21
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erstaziugh, I am getting tired.09:22
timelyxkamihacker: you guys really aren't hack(er)y enough09:22
timelyxnote: i did not take real advantage of internal knowledge when i did that09:23
kamihackerI got my 770 three days ago09:23
timelyxi merely took an n800 w/ 3.2007 and the debs09:23
kamihackerI am still deciding what version of the OS I will keep09:23
erstazikamihacker, where did you buy your 770 from?09:23
kamihackererstazi, woot09:23
kamihackererstazi, but I am an international buyer, so it took time to ship to my country09:24
kamihackeronly thing that is bugging me now is that the bluetooth plugin for keyboards has an issue with latest os200609:25
kamihackeryet it works perfectly with os2007 built-in hardware keyboard manager09:25
kamihackerI've not made my mind yet, I don't use for multimedia, just ebooks and work on xterm09:26
kamihackerthat's why flash7 won't bother me either, I don't web browse that much on it09:26
erstazikamihacker, what brand and model for the keyboard did you buy?09:27
kamihackerstowaway sierra09:27
erstazioh no, not ray charles again09:27
kamihackera.k.a. the smudge magnet09:27
kamihackerI should have researched the support before getting it, but I had one of those for my palm (over universal connector though)09:28
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kamihackerand I was used to think that the device would just work09:28
erstazihello Vertoo09:29
erstaziyeah, I think I might down the road if I get sick and tired of the virtual keyboard, I might buy a bluetooth one09:29
erstaziI think on or nokia's site they have a list of supported keyboards09:29
Vertooi like the v- kb09:30
erstazibut so far, I am ok with it09:30
kamihackererstazi, there are other choices, I am not sick of the onscreen on, it's just that I've always used real keyboards or handwriting since PalmIIIxe09:30
erstaziI try to avoid too much xterm on the 770, but ssh works nicely09:30
Vertooits pretty efficient once you get the hang of it09:30
erstaziVertoo, oh definitely09:30
kulveerstazi: about the sb url. See the second news on the main page..09:30
kamihackererstazi, I've not tried screen, but it if doesn't work out ok, I can always screen somewhere else through ssh09:31
erstaziexactly, kamihacker09:31
erstazikulve, thank you, that would explain a lot09:32
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Vertooanyone know of a text editor on here?09:32
kamihackerand I just find out sadly that I have to install syslog and klog to see what's going on with DUN over btooth with my phone09:33
erstaziVertoo, CLI or GUI?09:33
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kulveerstazi: the download page will be updated shortly too :)09:33
erstazikulve, I wondered what happened, everything I thought was bleak09:33
Vertooeither. gui would be nice though09:33
erstaziVeggen, maemopad or maemopad+09:33
erstazifor GUI09:33
erstazidamn tab09:34
erstazifor CLI, you can get nano or install vim,... vi is installed by default09:34
erstaziI do not think emacs is ported09:35
erstazibut I could be wrong09:35
erstaziVertoo, personally, I prefer maemopad over maemopad+, its lighter09:35
Vertoocan any of the gui ones load a file that i specify? like /etc/hosts09:35
erstaziVertoo, I know maemopad can09:35
Vertoomamopad it is. thx09:36
erstazino problem09:36
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erstaziVertoo, btw, its maemopad just incase your search comes to no avail... I suggest using the repos at .. let me check09:37
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erstazihello Sulis, how are you?09:37
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Vertooalready installed, thanks for following through though.09:38
erstaziVertoo, ok09:38
Vertoois there an easy way to put someones nick into the text or does everyone type it?09:39
erstaziVertoo, first two letters then hit/tap the tab key09:39
erstaziVertoo, thats how I messed up your nick with the other nick, I didn't hit tab twice09:39
erstaziyou can do one letter, but in channels that have this many nicks, two or three characters are more efficient09:40
Wzrd2kami, try to install the mozilla browser and tell me if it works09:41
Wzrd2on 2007 he09:41
Wzrd2the new one09:41
_Monkeyit has been said that the new one is using 19%09:41
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Vertooit doesnt wz09:42
Wzrd2figured that09:42
Wzrd2that sux!!09:42
erstaziWzrd2, well, if you learn the basics and some advance, you could port those apps over09:43
Wzrd2can't someone who knows what the hell they are doing do it?09:43
erstaziWzrd2, I am doing it slowly09:44
erstazimostly, people don't have all the time in the world09:44
Wzrd2u are?? porting flash 9 to work on the 770?09:44
Wzrd2well I know that erstazi09:44
erstaziWzrd2, I prefer gecko-based browsers over opera but I find opera alright for this tablet09:45
erstaziWzrd2, I have no need for flash09:45
Wzrd2I like opera.. I just want f-ing flash 9 to work on my 770!!09:45
erstaziWzrd2, but I could take it on, there is an open source flash out there09:45
erstaziWzrd2, well, flash is independent of the browser09:45
Wzrd2I use my 770 primarily for web browssing09:45
Wzrd2when I researched the 770 and 800 I thought the 770 could be upgraded to use flash909:46
Wzrd2and I also didn't and still don't have the money for an 80009:46
Wzrd2so I stupidly bought the 77009:47
erstaziWzrd2, I don't regret the 770,.. there could be a port out there09:47
kamihackerWzrd2, if I try it, I will let you know, I am only interested in checking if os2007 works better for DUN with my krzr k109:47
erstazithe issue is, most of these apps are not centralized and some of them are not stable09:48
Vertoomaemopad doesnt support loading a file by path09:48
Wzrd2I like the 770 except for the non flash 9 support09:48
erstaziVertoo, hmm, I didn't have a problem with that09:48
Wzrd2I like how it's small and I can quickly browse the web with it09:48
erstaziVertoo, the path is protected I believe, just like how root is protected09:48
kamihackerWzrd2, I don't know why you hammer yourself over the flash9 issue, flash9 is mainly used for youtube and entertainment purposes, I don't see how that affects you in a terrible manner09:48
erstazias a web developer who takes the WAI guidelines seriously, I find flash very horrid09:49
Wzrd2I had my desktop off and I forgot I wanted to look at something on the net so I fired up my 770, checked what I needed and then shut it down09:49
kamihackererstazi, word up09:49
Wzrd2cuz I browse web pages which use flash 909:49
Wzrd2as well as ones that don't09:49
Wzrd2that's all09:50
Vertooalso, erstazi , i cant seem to log into root on here. i can ssh to it, but i cant just sudo in09:50
erstaziVertoo, you need a few packages, first one is x-terminal (get the advanced one)09:50
erstazisecond is becomeroot so you can type: sudo gainroot09:50
erstazimake sure you change your passwords for both user and root09:51
Vertooi have xterm, i think i need become root. where can i get that?09:51
_Monkeysomebody said was ok here, but is down (and has been down for several hours)09:51
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erstaziVertoo, do you know how to edit your sources.list?09:53
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erstazihello nelson and guynux_mamo09:54
erstazihow are you two?09:54
_Monkeyno are solved09:54
erstaziVertoo, no what?09:54
erstazi_Monkey, forget no09:54
_Monkeyerstazi: I forgot no09:54
erstaziVertoo, oh nevermind I remember haha, short term memory09:56
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Vertooenable rd mode if i want to break my device????10:03
Vertooerstazi, whats all this then?10:03
erstaziVertoo, for what package?10:04
erstaziif its becomeroot, they say that because with root you can break your device10:04
Vertoooh, ok. so am i root now? or do i need to do something?10:05
erstaziVertoo, are you in xterm?10:06
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erstaziVertoo, type: sudo gainroot10:06
Vertoodid it10:06
erstazinow, make sure you change your passwords for both user and root10:06
erstazipasswd user10:06
Vertoopw user and pw root?10:07
Vertooyou may not view or modify the password for root10:08
Vertoomethinks im not logged in as root10:08
erstaziVertoo, did you type: sudo gainroot10:08
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erstaziok, ssh to your tablet10:09
erstazithen type sudo gainroot10:10
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erstaziVertoo, it should change from $ to # (thats how mine is default)10:11
Vertooi edited my host file10:13
Vertooand pasted something large in there10:13
Vertooscrolled up and couldn't find original text10:14
Vertooso i just closed terminal10:14
erstaziVertoo, what editor did you use?10:14
Vertoochecked again. and its blank10:14
erstaziyeah, vi requires you do type this: ":w" or ":wq" to save10:14
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erstazithats without quotes10:15
erstaziVertoo, if you ever have that problem again, type ":q!" without quotes10:15
erstazithat exists you out of vi without saving10:16
Vertoohosts looks blank though10:16
Vertoowas looking at host not hosts10:17
Vertooso whats the max line limit?10:17
erstaziyou can change that10:17
erstaziwhich tablet do you have? 770 or n800?10:18
erstaziVertoo, I have a 770 so bare with me, select the menu at the top10:19
erstaziit says X Terminal10:19
erstaziand go to settings10:19
erstaziit should be there10:19
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Vertoogot it. its now set to 1000010:21
erstazihi Wizzard10:22
erstaziok now I am going to sleep10:23
erstazinight all10:23
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timelesskaiwai: where do you feel you( or your bugs a)'re being ignored?10:38
timelessoops, wrong channel10:38
disqmmm. +s channels eh10:41
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timeless now works10:46
timelessin case people want to browse around random garage projects10:47
timelessit should have a working text and identifier index10:47
timelessand should let you see sources for something similar to the osso platform core10:49
timelessthe thing there is a pull date, i don't actually pull sardine often10:50
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AD-N770good morning11:15
JaffaMorning, all11:15
timelesshi ad-n700, jaffa11:17
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thomasvsanyone know of a pyopenssl package ? the irc log mentions one existing once or twice but I can't find it11:44
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timelessanyone here familiar w/ vpnc?11:47
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celestehi use vnc on a different platform . . .12:02
timelessthat's not really related12:06
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moo2hi. Is it possible to install the latest maemo OS on the 770?12:55
c0ffeebut there's a hacker edition of the latest maemo os that will work on the 77012:56
moo2Ok, so I forget the $150 770 I found...12:56
c0ffeeit's available from garage12:56
moo2I would like a n800 but it's too expensive. My wife said "you already want the next Neo1973 in October, don't you think it's enough ?" sigh12:57
c0ffeeyou're not alone :)12:59
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timelessok, no longer hides garage/sardine13:13
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keesjthe n800 is already more then I can hanle there are so many possibilities13:26
keesjbut yes Neo is sexy,13:26
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keesjthe e17 /edj on screen keyboard is the next code I want to touch . I will try to improve usability13:34
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keesjfor who misted it
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lardmanAnyone tried installing geoclue?13:55
keesjlardman: there was something difficult about installing it right?13:55
lardmanSupposedly it requires dpkg, thoug it all installed fine using the package manager for me13:56
lardmanfrom the downloaded files, not from the list in package manager that is as the ones in the list are supposed to be old13:57
lardmanBut I can't get the statusbar applet to load, so nothing seems to work13:57
lardmanAny ideas how to debug statusbar applets?13:57
inzlardman, gdb /usr/bin/maemo-summoner /usr/bin/maemo_af_desktop.launch13:58
inzlardman, or hildon-desktop.launch, if running chinook/sardine13:59
lardmaninz: Will that load while the statusbar is already running?13:59
keesjbtw my browser stopped working :(14:02
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lardmanhmm interesting, it's started the desktop again, I've now got two14:05
lardmanuurgh, can't ctrl-c out of it as half the onscreen kb is obscured14:05
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lardmaninz: I couldn't see anything relating to applets in there, not sure if it's happy loading them twice14:08
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inzlardman, it should be, dunno though14:13
lardmannot to worry, crashed the desktop when I closed the second one anyway, I should have piped the output of the command14:14
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inzlardman, I'd suggest ssh'ing in for debugging ;)14:17
lardmaninz: I'll try that, my battery's just gone flat so it'll have to wait 'till this evening14:19
lardmanShame the output from the desktop components isn't piped somewhere for people to look at14:20
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lardmanOpie had something like that so you could see what had gone wrong without needing to work out what to run again14:21
cosmoanyone know which companies arrange maemo training in finland?14:21
kulvelardman: try installing syslog or compile the desktop by yourself (without maemo launcher)14:21
lardmankulve: The desktop components write to syslog? good good14:22
geaaruhi, how can i start browser in fullscreen mode? (from console or from menu?)14:23
geaarucan be do that from dbus?14:23
geaaruthank in advance14:23
kulvelardman: I don't think they directly use syslog, but they seem to end up there any way..14:24
kulvegeaaru: try searching in the mailing list archive. You are not the first one wondering about that..14:25
lardmankulve: Okay, as long as the output's there I might be able to work out what's wrong. Thanks for the tip14:25
geaarukulve: i try.14:25
zeenixcosmo: movial does, afaik14:26
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cosmozeenix: thanks14:41
cosmotieturi seems to organize also one in october14:41
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robtaylor /wg #openmoko15:18
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celestehhi, how do i type an escape without a hardware keyboard?15:44
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pwilleon n800 (in xterm) its the key just under the dpad15:46
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celestehok.  what is the dpad?15:47
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pwillewhat do we call that key anyway?15:49
pwilleah, makes sense :)15:50
celestehah, not on the keyboard15:50
erstaziyeah, its actually one of the buttons15:50
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celestehyay, i just wrote hello world!15:51
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JaffaAnyone tried the Motorola HT820's with Kagu?16:11
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||cwanyone tried that yet?16:19
NeoStridertried DR16 yesterday...too confusing!16:19
Toma-yeh 17 is more along the lines of a DE16:20
NeoStrider||cw:  gustavo did it =-)16:20
||cwyeah, article says16:20
NeoStriderhe's from indt, so its gonna take some time until we see it16:20
||cwsrtical says brazil16:20
NeoStriderbut im sure they will release it as soon as they can16:20
_Monkeyi think indt is a nokia research center in brazil.  They distribute a vmware image of Ubuntu Feisty with the N800 development environment already installed16:21
||cwah ok16:21
||cwthink it'll work on the 770 too?16:21
NeoStriderits python16:21
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NeoStriderthere is no reason for it to not run16:21
Toma-im on it!16:22
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Toma-Oh snap! its using edje :D16:22
k-s[WORK]NeoStrider, ||cw: gustavo is me16:22
NeoStriderhey gustavo! k-s[WORK]16:23
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NeoStridersumido =-P16:23
||cwcool, hope this works out to be releasable16:23
k-s[WORK]_Monkey: we also do Canola, Carman, Mamona, ...16:23
_Monkeyk-s[WORK]: huh?16:23
NeoStriderk-s[WORK]:  _Monkey is a bot16:23
k-s[WORK]||cw: no 770, I compiled with -march=arm1136j-s16:24
Jaffak-s[WORK] (or other INDt folk): is there an ETA on the new Canola? All these new features sound wonderful (even if some of them are re-inventing GeoClue), but it sounds an awful lot like Second System Syndrome16:24
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: it may look like a SSS, but it's not16:25
bueroman||cw, the development environment for n770 is in the vmware image too16:26
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: we do not aim to replace the system, but do have a "multimedia mode" for it16:26
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: we'll never have PIM or Office for instance... possible not browser or text-RSS that soon16:26
inz_Monkey, indt =~ /intalled/installed. They also do Canola, Carman, Mamona.../16:27
_MonkeyHmm.  No matches for that, inz.16:27
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: neither management (reorganize your media, add contacts, ...)16:27
inz_Monkey, indt =~ /installed/installed. They also do Canola, Carman, Mamona.../16:27
_MonkeyHmm.  No matches for that, inz.16:27
inz_Monkey, indt =~ s/installed/installed. They also do Canola, Carman, Mamona.../16:27
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_MonkeyOK, inz16:27
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erstazihello NeoStrider16:27
NeoStriderhello erstazi16:28
Jaffak-s[WORK]: OK, cool. I understood the reasons for switching from SDL (very sensible) and the GeoClue-like stuff sounds very cool. But now I'm impatient and want some fresh bling :-)16:28
NeoStrider_Monkey, indt16:28
_Monkeysomebody said indt was a nokia research center in brazil.  They distribute a vmware image of Ubuntu Feisty with the N800 development environment already installed. They also do Canola, Carman, Mamona...16:28
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: so compile e17 there and start hacking :-)16:29
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: kenne and I wrote a tutorial at e17 wiki, it was posted on OSnews the other day16:29
NeoStriderisnt blackbox a better aproach?16:30
k-s[WORK]NeoStrider: not that much16:30
k-s[WORK]and I'm not suggesting e17 as wm, but their libs16:30
k-s[WORK]hildon desktop/matchbox is fine so far16:30
NeoStriderelibs looks VERY COOL16:30
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: as for previews of Canola/Carman/... it will take some time, we're working on the infrastructure16:36
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: I was writing these demos to explore features of EFL, fixing bugs, implementing missing features16:36
NeoStriderk-s[WORK]:  that iphone keyboard was just a cool demo or it will integrate a product?16:38
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: kenne is writing current UI16:38
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: Ryback_ is working with Models and Controllers in python16:38
k-s[WORK]I may join Ryback_ in this taks soon16:38
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k-s[WORK]etrunko and andrunko will work on etk, so we can remove the damn web-ui16:39
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andrunkothat's me16:40
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NeoStridername clashes! =-P16:42
NeoStrideror just a similaritie?16:42
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MoRpHeUzJaffa: I am working with lsobral at the media engine infraestructure..16:44
k-s[WORK]Jaffa: as you can see, need to put pieces together :-)16:44
NeoStriderwow...lots of indt people in less than 10 minutes!16:44
k-s[WORK]I hope that this will make it much better than first canola16:45
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k-s[WORK]NeoStrider: sure, our paid work require us to join #maemo, so...16:47
rtcmhi, just installed maemo but can't get 'apt-get update' to work it complains: Could not resolve ''16:50
rtcmbut I can: wget, just fine16:51
rtcmi'm puzzled16:51
inzThe (in)famous /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf16:52
inzIt isn't too verbose or anything though ;)16:53
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NeoStrider_Handful__:  what a miracle!16:58
NeoStriderindt meeting over IRC? =-P16:59
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lardmanCan a Python hacker tell me how I can instantiate a class from a variable name? E.g. class is called yacas_plugin and I want to read this string from a file and create a class instance17:16
thomasvslardman: you read the module from disk17:17
thomasvslardman: you look up the symbol in the module's dict17:17
thomasvslardman: and you store that to a variable17:17
thomasvslardman: then you instantiate an instance by doing my_instance = klazz()17:18
thomasvs(assuming klazz is the variable name for the class)17:18
* mgedmin prefers cls, although pep8 recommends class_17:18
lardmanthomasvs: Yes, I'll read the module name to load the module, but I don;t know what the class name will be before I read the file17:18
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thomasvslardman: when do you know the class name then ?17:19
mgedminimport module; cls = getattr(module, 'classname')17:19
lardmanmgedmin: Thanks17:19
lardmanthomasvs: I'll read it from a conf file17:19
mgedminusually it's a better idea to have a mapping of names to classes17:19
lardmanmodule names to classes?17:19
lardmanI'll explain what I'm up to...17:20
mgedminplugins = {'myplugin1': module1.MyPluginClass, 'myplugin2': module2.MyOtherPlugin}17:20
lardmanI'm writing a calculator frontend for which I want to have different backends, the current backend name will be stored in a conf file, and I'll subclass a class pycalc_plugin to provide input/output/info methods. So for yacas I'll have a class called yacas_plugin17:21
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lardmanwhich is a subclass of pycalc_plugin, so I can always call the same methods. I just need to know how to instantiate the class in the first place17:22
lardmanI could always use the same class name, and only load one backend at a time, but I'd like to be able to have more than one loaded, so they need different names. Does that make sense?17:22
mgedminI think so, yes17:23
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mgedminby the way, setuptools has entry points which is intended to solve this exact problem, I think17:23
lardmanOkay, I'll take a look17:23
* lardman needs to read more of his Python book17:23
mgedminon a low Python level you probably want to get the name of the plugin module in a variable, __import__() it, then get some attribute inside17:24
mgedmine.g. plugin = __import__(plugin_module).get_plugin()17:24
lardmanI've seen the __import__() method and that's what I plan to use17:25
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lardmanwhat will be in plugin? Will that be a class instance?17:25
mgedminif you want to support packages (i.e. if plugin_module can be a dotted name like '') then you need to wave a dead chicken over it:17:25
lardmanno, it needn't be anything more than a simple name17:25
mgedminplugin = __import__(plugin_module, {}, {}, ('*', )).get_plugin()17:26
mgedminbut setuptools and Python eggs are where the future lies, apparently17:26
lardmanah, so get_plugin() is a non-class method that returns an instance of the class?17:26
rtcminz: sorry for the lag. but my nsswitch.conf was already correct with 'hosts: files dns' and I can use wget inside scratchbox17:29
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lardmanmgedmin: thanks for the help17:30
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mgedminre the get_plugin function: this is Python, you can decide on whatever you want17:31
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mgedminyou could require the plugins to define a class named 'Plugin'17:31
amri was just looking at the nokia 770 and cant really find an answer to this17:31
mgedminor you could split the string from your config file into a module name and the class name17:31
mgedminand use getattr on the module object that __import__ returns17:31
amris it feasible to use the device to listen to mp3s stored on a flash card without issue17:31
mgedminamr: yes17:32
amrand to watch avi files (im happy encoding them, thats no issue)17:32
mgedminalso yes, if you reencode them17:32
amrso i wont have issues with the video/audio being out of sync or having sluggish playback?17:32
mgedminthat depends on how you encode the videos17:33
amrhow do you mean17:33
mgedminthat's the point of reencoding: most videos out there require more cpu power than the 770 has17:33
amrwhat would i need to encode to17:34
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mgedminthere's a script somewhere, called 770 encode, I think17:35
amrthink i may have it17:35
mgedminI've used it once out of interest (reencoding is just too much hassle, so I prefer watching videos on my laptop)17:35
NeoStrideri have seen it before17:35
amr ?17:35
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NeoStrideron the applicationcatalog17:35
mgedminI think so17:35
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inzrtcm, and that was /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf? (i.e. not the target's /etc/nsswitch.conf)17:36
amri was looking at mp3 players of a similar price and thought i may as well pick one of these up17:36
amrseeing as i get so much more17:36
NeoStrider"hola" =-017:39
amr'media converter' the java application looks pretty handy17:39
amri imagine maemo mpeg4 would be the best format?17:39
Blacksitoxhello xd17:39
rtcminz: ah ok, didn't notice they were different17:40
rtcminz: thanks!17:40
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NeoStriderI actually got good fps with plain mpeg17:40
amrwhats good fps17:40
amroh, cool17:40
NeoStriderdont know the exact fps17:40
NeoStriderwith mplayer, some avi works good too17:40
NeoStriderbut 3gpp is always the best17:40
amrso trying to watch a recorded tv episode isnt a lost cause17:40
NeoStriderno...not really17:41
NeoStriderit comes with some videos indeed17:41
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NeoStriderit comes with a .avi video17:42
amrdo you have a 770 too?17:43
Jaffaamr: 770-encode is my favourite - but I'm biased :)17:43
amrJaffa, haha, how come you say that?17:43
amrNeoStrider, whats the battery life like realistically?17:43
amrhow much does it suck down battery listening to mp3s or watching vids or playing games17:43
NeoStrideramr: hum...I cant really measure, as my home WIFI is out...but I usually get a couple of days17:43
NeoStriderwhat I dont really know17:44
NeoStriderI dont use it for anything but debugging17:44
NeoStrider(debugging 3D games...very demanding)17:44
amroh right, no wonder you get so long then lol17:44
NeoStrideralso, I usb a lot17:44
NeoStriderso this takes power too17:44
amrthats cool battery life17:45
||cwlast I tried, 2-3 hours doing web browsing and mp3 streaming17:45
NeoStriderI would risk saying 3 days, with proeminent use of offline mode and standby17:45
NeoStriderI use it on short bursts of intense use17:45
amrwhich would be worse, continuous wifi usage or continuous mp3 playing17:45
amror video playing17:45
NeoStriderwifi is both demanding and heating17:45
amroh thats ok then17:45
amras long as i get enough battery life to last my plane journey im happy :P17:46
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NeoStriderI dont listen to music on it often17:46
erstaziwifi definitely17:46
amrwhat devices do you all have?17:46
erstaziI listen to stream from slimserver on another computer17:46
NeoStriderbut I still do sometimes17:46
erstaziI have a 77017:46
NeoStrider770 too17:46
NeoStriderwith the lastest revision OS17:46
NeoStriderMaemo 2.217:46
amroh cool17:46
amris the interface as bad as ive heard?17:47
NeoStriderand u , erstazi?17:47
NeoStridernot really17:47
NeoStriderquite good indeed17:47
NeoStriderbut I do use more x-terminal17:47
amrsweet im definitely ordering one of these17:47
NeoStriderit worth17:47
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amri may have to buy a couple of 1gb rs-mmc's17:48
NeoStriderI got a 512 mb17:48
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||cwthe interface a just different.  once you get how it works, it's pretty good17:48
NeoStriderworks very well17:48
amrIf you order this product before 4pm today, UK customers could expect delivery tomorrow morning.17:49
NeoStriderthe default theme is somewhat ugly (purple and gray...but the orange one is very sexy)17:49
erstaziNeoStrider, I haven't updated the OS yet17:49
_Monkeyi heard mistral was a N770 distro, gregale is N800 oriented17:49
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erstaziI use the teal17:49
amrim getting the 770 + 1gb card for ?7717:49
erstaziNeoStrider, yes17:49
amri hope im not being ripped off :P17:49
NeoStriderah...good...but has some nasty bugs17:50
erstaziamr, wait17:50
amrfor ?85, actually17:50
erstaziamr, what currency?17:50
amrgood/bad ?17:50
erstazi$173 USD17:50
amrincluding a card?17:50
erstaziyou are paying $24 USD over what I paid with a 1gb (free shipping)17:51
erstaziamr, $173 USD including card17:51
NeoStridersounds good for me17:51
NeoStriderand for you guys?17:51
erstazi11,77 GBP17:51
amrhow much is shipping to the UK though17:52
erstazibut thats probably for shipping and maybe the 770 is more in your market17:52
Jaffaamr: cos I wrote :)17:52
amr173 is ?8417:52
erstaziamr, I don't know that, I was just doing some math conversions for currency17:52
amrso im paying ?1 over :P17:52
amrJaffa, ah, that would make you biased then :P17:52
erstaziyou are paying 11.77 GBP17:52
amryou paid 150?17:53
erstaziI paid $129.99 USD (
erstazior 63.75 british pounds17:53
amrwell i feel conned17:53
erstazibecause had a deal going on17:54
erstaziso I saved $1017:54
erstaziand free shipping for the 77017:54
erstaziand 1gb rs-mmc17:54
amrah lol17:54
erstaziamr, its all about deals, ebay was way too expensive so I jumped at buy.com17:54
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amrif i order in 6 minutes17:54
amri get it tomorrow morning17:54
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erstazithere were sellers on ebay charging $20 USD or 9.80 GBP for shipping17:55
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amrmega crazy17:56
amrordered :)17:56
erstaziamr, is your friend17:56
erstaziand of course, the wonderful people in this channel17:56
amrof course17:57
erstaziok time to run to the shop, shall be back in 10 minutes17:57
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whaq_1tb external drive for $229.. that's not bad, is it?17:57
NeoStriderwhaq_: do you need all this stuff?17:58
erstaziwhaq_, back about 4 years ago, I paid $400 for a 120gb internal17:58
erstazibe bak17:58
inzwhy correct, bak sounds terminatorish17:58
whaq_NeoStrider: i didn't *need* to eat the fillet mignon last night, but it sure was nice :]17:58
erstaziwell, my father's side is Austrian...17:58
amrwait what17:59
amrit says order before 417:59
whaq_erstazi: well, yeah.. but comparatively speaking of the current market i mean.17:59
amryet on my order status page it says Estimated 11 Days17:59
amroh dear...17:59
erstaziwhaq_, that was my point, with the market of just 4 years ago, $229 for a 1tb is nothing17:59
erstaziits like cheese slices17:59
erstazithe new gets moldy real quick if not refrigerated18:00
erstaziwait, that didn't make sense,... ok gtg18:00
whaq_har har18:00
whaq_take care18:00
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amroh dear18:06
amrcancelled the order18:06
amrit will take 11 days18:06
NeoStrideroh god...18:06
amri go on holiday in 10 :P18:06
amrhave to find another site18:07
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whaq_amr are you looking at expansys?18:12
amrhow did you guess18:12
whaq_it's the only 'global' deal around for around that price, i'd reckon..18:13
whaq_they have also for apac18:13
amrim ordering from now18:13
amrshould be here on the 2nd18:13
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NeoStriderlunch and work18:16
NeoStridercya fellows18:16
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amris there a difference between mmc-mobile18:16
amrand rs-mmc18:16
whaq_amr: how much at play?18:16
whaq_don't know. i'm waiting for my n800s, i don't want to deal with mmc cards.18:17
amr79.99 shipped for the unit18:17
amrmore than i wanted to pay but im not really bothered18:17
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whaq_fair enough18:20
whaq_when will it get to ya?18:20
amron the 2nd18:21
amrso 2 days18:21
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amrdo i actually need to do anything to my 770 when i get it18:26
amrload hacked firmware or kernels or what have you18:26
whaq_good deal18:26
whaq_suppose update it to latest IT2006 OS if it does not already have it18:27
VladDracamr: still has some18:31
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amrmore expensive though18:32
amr~?113 :-(18:33
amrty though18:33
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VladDracthat's why I bought mine in the uk shop18:34
VladDrac(and it got shipped from marseille)18:34
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trevarthancrap. Xournal doesn't work in the new firmware. The cursor shows up, but nothing gets written to the canvas.18:36
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geaaruhi, how can i disable autoconnecting features when i try to use web browser (also for localhost)?18:38
trevarthanunique311: how's the theme coming?18:39
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Jaffageaaru: you need do define a dummy connection18:43
Jaffatrevarthan/unique311: a pretty Kagu theme?18:44
amrhaha, how cool is that18:45
trevarthanJaffa: yeah.18:46
trevarthanI think unique is working on a dark theme.18:46
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geaaruyes, but without define a dummy connection it's possible?18:49
Jaffatrevarthan: cool, does Kagu have a "now playing" view with iPod-like prettiness? Something Canola does a lot better than UKMP IMHO.18:50
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||cwamr: almost as cool as the tractable usb charger i got18:51
Tilihow do I resolve this Error, the DISPLAY environment variable is not defined.18:51
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Tiliwhen i run that18:52
trevarthanJaffa: It has nowplaying, but I can't comment on the prettiness. Install it for yourself and find out.18:53
trevarthanI'm not a graphics artist. I'm a programmer. That's why we're looking for graphics artists from the community to step up and create new themes for Kagu.18:53
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trevarthanthat reminds me... I really aught to update the screenshots. they aren't current...18:55
whaq_what's the url, trevarthan?18:55
trevarthankagu is
_Monkeykagu is a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here:
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trevarthanforget kagu18:56
_Monkeytrevarthan: I forgot kagu18:56
trevarthankagu is
_Monkeywell, kagu is
_Monkeygoodmonkey is a good _Monkey who gets a biscuit.18:57
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whaq_ok, thanks19:07
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amrhi again19:11
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trevarthanpupnik: afternoon!19:18
trevarthanIt sucks that time is different all over the world. I'm not sure if I'll ever come to terms with that.19:18
pupniki'm in CET :P19:21
VladDracin TZ=VladDrac, it's always 5 o'clock19:23
whaq_we can overcome the timezone problem19:24
whaq_if everyone can just pick a single continent to live in, and evacuate the rest19:24
celestehone time zone of one continent19:25
trevarthanI guess that means we all need to hop over to finland.19:25
amrcome to the UK19:25
amreveryone else does :-(19:25
trevarthanI just want to go to some other continent some time. I can't seem to find a good excuse. :) My wife doesn't think that Robo-1 competitions are worthy.19:26
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whaq_the n800 and 770 shines the most during traveling19:27
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Jaffatrevarthan: you're using Motorola S9's IIRC?19:27
trevarthanunless you're going somewhere really, really rural.19:27
trevarthanJaffa: yeah19:27
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nate12o6hey guys.  i got a question for you.  Has anyone been able to use bluetooth to connect to the treo 650 to use the internet?19:27
whaq_hi nate12o6, would you like to get to know us better before trying to suck on our collective wisdom?19:28
nate12o6not really19:28
trevarthannate12o6: tried this?
trevarthanjust did a quick search for "treo 650 dialup profile bluetooth" on google.19:29
whaq_or on forum19:29
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nate12o6well when i connect it tells me that the only service i have is dial networking.  but how to i access it on the 650?19:29
trevarthanshouldn't have to.19:29
nate12o6not on the 650.  i ment on the 77019:29
amrare there any good syncing programs that work with a mac?19:29
amrso I can sync my calendar for example19:29
trevarthannate12o6: put your 650 in pairing mode, then go to control panel -> phones? (not sure the exact link) and see if it finds it.19:30
nate12o6it does.19:31
nate12o6it connects just fine19:31
whaq_amr, if not directly, you can sync (both the mac and) the tablet to gcal19:31
nate12o6do i not need to do anything in connections or something?19:31
amrah yes19:31
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amrgood point19:31
nate12o6to access internet19:31
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trevarthannate12o6: no, it should just work after that. open a browser.19:31
amrcan you do that natively on the 770?19:31
amri forget if it has calendar features built in or not19:31
nate12o6oh ok.19:31
Jaffatrevarthan: know a good place to buy 'em cheap? Or any comment on how good they are/if they're usable with glasses?19:31
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trevarthannate12o6: it works?19:31
whaq_there's a gcal syncing util for gpe.. ermi.. something19:32
nate12o6i am inside of a building right now.  i will have to test at lunch19:32
trevarthanJaffa: no idea about cheap: I can comment plenty on usability though. No, they're *NOT* comfy with glasses. You can't lay down with them on. They pinch a bit. And the reception really sucks sometimes.19:32
Jaffatrevarthan: fair enough.19:33
trevarthanThe manual says to keep the transmitter above your waist line. How the heck are you gonna do that with an n800?19:33
JaffaDon't seem to be any which are any good for glasses-wearers :-(19:33
celestehok, i want to share how i got an offline flickr uploader going19:33
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celestehextremely stupid:19:34
trevarthanJaffa: I put mine in my backpack over the weekend for a quick jog. That worked OK, but who wants to carry a backpack to run?19:34
celestehi set up a special gmail account.  i set the mail client to talk to it.  i upload via email19:34
trevarthanJaffa: I mainly use my s9 headset at my desk at work. Works great there. Plug in the n800, wireless freedom, lightweight. They're just not very good for running, IMO.19:34
whaq_the s9 looks the best amongst other bt headsets though19:35
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trevarthanwhaq_: I agree.19:35
whaq_most of the others can double as princess-leia headgear during halloween19:35
whaq_trevarthan: how long does the battery last?19:36
trevarthanI think the next gen of a2dp headsets will be great. :) Hopefully they all go the lightweight route.19:36
trevarthanwhaq_: about 8 hours.19:36
trevarthanperfect for a work day19:36
whaq_that's really decent19:36
trevarthann800 dies way before the headset unless you plug it in.19:36
trevarthanhonestly, if they improved the reception so it didn't cut out when I'm running, the s9 would be perfect.19:37
whaq_can you sit comfortably w/ the thing on?19:37
whaq_i mean, relax and rest your head back.. on trips and such (car, train, plane).19:38
unique311trevarthan, i'm working19:39
unique311trying to come up with some descent colors..19:39
unique311and oh i gave up on that whole transparency pink think..19:40
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Jaffaunique311: any mockups?19:44
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unique311trevarthan, its not a dark theme, considering this was my first shot at trying to theme, i wen with a light colors.  all i did really was change some icons and trying to use color that works nice with gradient.19:48
unique311the theme i will send you will not be the final.  If you don't mind the way i went about doing it....I'll provide  something better.19:49
pupniki just realized clothes are 'themes'19:53
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amrhow often does the audio player 'hiccup' when playing music?19:54
amrive read a few reviews and theyve all said that happened occasionally19:54
_MonkeyGuten Tag, sbaturzio!19:54
amralthough they didnt say whether it was locally stored or streamed from the internet19:54
Jaffaamr: I think it happens when the "automatically look for wlans to connect to" timeout triggers.19:55
unique311pupnik, i didn't think theme was hard..but i was wrong19:55
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bldewolfanyone have any luck with getting on LEAP wireless with a 770?19:56
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k-s[WORK]trevarthan, disq: I saw you guys released kagu20:29
k-s[WORK]any of you looked at EFL already?20:29
pupnikdoes RAM take much energy for embedded devices?20:29
derfIt's a non-trivial amount.20:31
derfIt's certainly not the biggest drain on the battery.20:32
pupnikhow much ram do you think would make sense for a 'N900'?20:32
robtaylorpupnik: same as N800, i'd guess20:33
derfI'd like twice as much.20:33
derfBattle for Wesnoth wouldn't run until I enabled the swap file.20:34
robtaylorwell, its all a trade off on operating time/cost and power20:34
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derfWell, consider how much operating time you can save if you had enough RAM for a real file cache.20:34
derfInstead of having to pull off the compressed file system all the time.20:34
pupnikdo you know if there are chipsets that can 'turn on' a second bank of RAM only when needed?20:34
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derfpupnik: Yes. I've heard of such things.20:35
robtaylorpupnik: it's possible20:35
robtaylorpupnik: the problem is doing it with linux20:35
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robtaylordefragging ram is slightly non-trivial20:35
derfHotswapping RAM in Linux is new.20:35
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derfI believe there's current support (possibly not yet in mainline) for _adding_ RAM.20:35
derfNot so much removing it yet.20:35
robtaylorand its pretty designed for Big Iron20:35
pupnikwould configuring it through swap / vm make any sense?20:36
derfYeah, NUMA architectures and such.20:36
derfA ramdisk of swap?20:36
pupnikjust a thought20:36
derfWell, how would the kernel address it?20:36
pupnikit would 'swap out' memory to ram, which is ugly i guess20:37
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derfYeah, but I mean, how does it write the page?20:37
derfYou still have to have a kernel piece that knows how to do that.20:38
derfPossibly simpler than defragging RAM, but the latter I know someone is already working on.20:38
trevarthank-s[WORK]: just got back from lunch.20:38
pupnikah.  well treating it as a filesystem already works20:38
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trevarthank-s[WORK]: ok. I think disq took a look at edje a few days ago. Same thing, right?20:40
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vivijimHi all, is there any difference between create a rootfs image to n800 and n770? I'm using this procedure: without success.20:40
pupnikwell 256MB would be really nice.  puts the device in a class where a lot more desktop style apps have breathing room20:41
Ryback_vivijim: what is the problem you're experiencing?20:41
trevarthanpupnik: I agree.20:41
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pupnikand considering how bloated webpages are now20:41
trevarthanpupnik: no kidding. I run out of ram just browsing to a few sites. :)20:41
vivijimRyback_: This tutorial is for n770 but I'm trying to generate a jffs2 image to n800. I'm mounting the original image and creating the rootfs image again but I got a kernel panic20:42
MobileSimSo, somehow while insanely drunk last night, I turned on a huge keyboard. Now that I'm sober again, I seemingly can't. Anyone know how to do it?20:42
vivijimStarting init20:43
vivijimexec: 423: /usr/sbin/chroot: not found20:43
vivijim[   10.641571] Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!20:43
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Ryback_vivijim: I think /usr/sbin/chroot should be in the initfs. just a sec.20:43
vivijimRyback_: I believe so, but I'm not changing the initfs20:44
pupnikMobileSim: try hitting an input field with your finger instead of the stylus?20:44
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MobileSimOh, thanks.20:46
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MobileSimGuess that explains how I activated it when I did; I normally use my thumbnail for that.20:50
pupniksame here :) this explains also how it happened when drunk :P20:51
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pupnikwhile :; do :; done &21:00
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maddlerevening all21:07
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trevarthanI'm not in your timezone maddler. It's afternoon here.21:12
trevarthanThis is a serious problem. I motion that we form a committee to discuss inter-timezone greetings.21:14
Robot101there's a long established convention of following the timezone of the person who initiates the greeting21:14
Robot101someone who arrives and says good morning to people should be greeted with good morning, and when they leave and wish people good night they should be wished good night :)21:15
Robot101maddler: evening :)21:15
trevarthanthat's crap. I say everyone should move to the GMT timezone.21:16
maddlerhahahaha... Swatch some years ago tried with a so called "internet time" crap...21:16
* trevarthan goes back to plotting world domination21:16
infobotsomebody said ugt was Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
maddlerkoen: nice... :D21:17
Robot101I also have a concept of universal lunch time21:17
Robot101until the lunchee has had lunch, it's morning21:17
Robot101whatever the local time is :)21:17
Robot101there probably needs to be a rider that if local time is PM and the lunchee fails to lunch by about 4-5pm, local afternoon and evening should be observed to avoid disrupting dinner21:18
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disqany idea on implementing python interface properties in python? found how to do methods no info on properties21:24
disqby implementing i mean "exporting"21:25
amrgod must really not want me to get my 77021:26
amrthere are postal strikes21:26
bldewolfhas anyone tried using wpa_supplicant on a 770?21:27
lmouradisq, try
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Blacksitoxhow download
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trevarthanI like UGT. Very smart.21:33
Vertoopupnik, you there?21:34
Vertooyou mentioned something earlier one day about zelda games emulated on the 800?21:35
pupnikyou can download xmaeme and fceu to play them21:35
pupnikand if you see Tak, thank him for porting them21:36
Vertoowhere can i get the games though? arent those just the emulators?21:36
trevarthanfceu doesn't work so well on the n800. At least in the previous firmware.21:36
gla55you can find the roms with google.21:37
trevarthanThe OSD buttons are all messed up.21:37
pupnikdo the buttons flicker?21:37
trevarthanyeah. The whole screen shakes. I was about to seizures.21:37
trevarthans/to/to have/21:37
infobottrevarthan meant: yeah. The whole screen shakes. I was about to have seizures.21:37
pupnikoh noes.  there may be Xsp fixes that break some of the old xsp hacks21:38
Vertooso use the other one?21:38
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pupnikhold a minute - i have to update a file then i would like to know if the onscreen buttons work with new n800 firmware please21:38
trevarthangimme a sec. I'll install it and check.21:39
Vertooso i dont need a bt kb to play these do i?21:39
trevarthannot fceu, no21:39
trevarthanosd buttons21:39
_Monkeyosd buttons are all messed up.21:39
trevarthanforget osd buttons21:40
_Monkeytrevarthan: I forgot osd buttons21:40
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Vertoohow big are the roms usually? any special format or do .rom files work?21:43
trevarthanBad form, rating your own software. :)21:45
trevarthanI think .zip and .gz and .smc are supported.21:45
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trevarthannot sure though21:45
Vertoothey are just nes? how about a n64 emu, anyone get that yet?21:46
trevarthanjust nes21:46
trevarthanpupnik has snes9x working too, but that requires a kb, and sound doesn't work yet. and it's slow.21:47
trevarthann64 would require someone with some serious skillz as the n800 doesn't have a gpu driver.21:47
trevarthanprobably not possible. n64 emu barely works on my 2.93ghz at home. :)21:48
amrwhat about a megadrive?21:48
amri would love to play sonic21:48
pupnikif anyone wants to work on emus i can help get you started21:49
trevarthanpupnik: yeah, fceu is still messed up in new firmware.21:50
trevarthanload and save show up, but none of the other buttons do.21:51
pupnikok i have an xsp test - it's just doing soemthing strange here - need a few minutes to patch it up21:51
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bldewolfdo you guys do dev work on the device itself or do you have a cross-compiling environment set up?21:52
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trevarthanI do python work on my n800. for everything else I use scratchbox (cross compiler)21:52
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trevarthanunique311: how's the theme coming?21:54
unique311its coming..21:54
unique311need to try it out on gimp...21:55
unique311thought i had the whole pink pixel down.  I don't..21:55
trevarthanhey man, if you continue having troubles, there are probably some genuine bugs in there. Feel free to give us bits and pieces of what you have and we can try to fix any bugs you run into.21:55
trevarthanno need to hand us a finished product. we can do it a bit at a time.21:56
unique311i have thisi can email you the one i did in photoshop.21:56
unique311well i think there is..21:56
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unique311is it possible in kagu-scanner py to call21:56
unique311hold on21:57
unique311the CREATE TABLE with rounded edges...21:57
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trevarthan:) no, it's just taking rectangle coords. you'll need to use transparency to do rounded edges.21:58
unique311i i know..21:58
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unique311the transpancy is not working for me.21:58
unique311i will send you 2 themes.21:59
trevarthanwell, show us what you've got and we'll see if we can work it out.21:59
unique3111 with slight modifications.with the pink issues im having..21:59
trevarthansend the sprites.png, as well as the output of `svn diff` on the command line (gives us any changes to
unique311and the other with how im trying to fix it.21:59
unique311i didn't make any changes to kagu-scanner22:00
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trevarthank. that makes it easy then. just send the sprites.png22:00
unique311email22:00 for me22:00
trevarthanI'll check it into SVN and then disq can check it out too.22:00
unique311not sure you should use the one im sending you..22:01
trevarthanwe won't use it unless you're happy with it.22:02
unique311check out the psd i'm sending you, and the png..tell me how i can go about fixing it22:02
trevarthanDoes Illustrator make .psd files?22:03
trevarthanor did you decide to go with photoshop instead?22:03
pupnikok n800 owners, i would be happy to know if this game runs on new n800 firmware.
unique311i went with illustrator..22:03
unique311then went into photoshop for blending options.22:04
pupniktar xzf aliens-bin-0.0.2.tgz && cd aliens-0.0.2 && ./aliens   .. the fullscreen button (upper left) should turn on/off pixel-doubling.  You shouldn't see any visual errors or flickering.22:05
solmumahapupnik: seems to work nicely22:07
trevarthanyeah, looks good22:07
unique311trevarthan, if i can get your gimp file, that would be helpful.22:09
pupnikok thanks, then the problem is in fceu22:09
trevarthanunique311: I kick it old school man. I edit it in place. When I'm done, I merge down and that's that. I used to draw things pixel by pixel. :)22:10
unique311you didn't keep the file with layers22:10
trevarthannope. much of it was stolen from UKMP, which used a .psd file. I don't own photoshop, so that wasn't much good to me.22:11
trevarthanI only pulled two images from external sources. The exit and back buttons. Everything else is just crappy gradient rectangles.22:11
trevarthanyou want the url to the back/exit buttons?22:12
unique311i modified the ones in the png slightly to go with the color..22:12
pupniknew gimp should be able to load .psg files btw22:12
trevarthanBTW, I'd *prefer* that any theme developers use Gimp and inkscape, not photoshop. But I'll take what I can get.22:13
trevarthanunique311: here is where I got the back/exit buttons from:
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trevarthanpupnik: I didn't realize that. I'll have to try that next time.22:15
pupnikneeds 2.3 branch to work well - 2.3.19 recommended22:15
pupnikdebian sid is currently at 2.2.17 from the stable branch22:16
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unique311going to try and import your orignal to gimp..22:16
trevarthanpupnik: ah. still running 2.2.12. I'll upgrade.22:16
unique311and see if i get a different result.22:16
unique311trevarthan, is the UKMP using the same pink pixel transparency effect you using?22:19
trevarthanno, UKMP uses black. I prefer pink as it's easier to identify.22:20
unique311take a look at my psd...and tell me whe i'm going wrong...22:21
unique311going to install gimp..for windows..(unique311 ducks)22:22
pupnik2.2.17 should handle psd import as long as layer names are short22:22
pupnikdo not use psd export though - use xcf22:23
pupnikunique311: it took me months to get rid of my photoshop habits and get friendly with gimp22:23
pupnikmany months...  it was painful22:23
unique311i don't want to get rid of my photoshop habits.22:23
unique311photoshop is actually good to me.22:24
pupniki think someone finally did a photoshop-like front end to gimp22:24
pupnikoh yeah i love it.  but my only legal copy is photoshop 5.0 LE22:24
trevarthanunique311: only problem I see is the back button doesn't have any transparency.22:25
unique311only did it that way22:25
unique311because the pink wasn't woking out.22:25
trevarthanlooks like the selected song background has accidental transparency at the top of the gradient.22:25
unique311it would pixelate the whole back image with pink22:26
unique311looked real bad.22:26
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unique311its bad.22:26
trevarthansounds like you're trying to fill the pink color using antialiasing. you can't do that. You have to use a single pixel color. Gradients of pink won't work.22:27
unique311the select song background was an error..i notice it when i tried in on the device.22:27
unique311i'll try it on gimp..see if the outcome is different with pink.22:28
trevarthan:) progress bar colors look a little funny too.22:29
trevarthanOverall, I like it though.22:29
unique311i was think it was going to be so simple as to just lay down layers..and make it happen.22:29
unique311but i'm not going to give up..22:29
unique311its a nice challenge.22:29
unique311my fist time22:29
trevarthanIt's not that difficult. I think you're just not really using photoshop correctly for the job. Unfortunately, I can't give any advice. If you use gimp instead, I can help.22:30
unique311installing gimp now.22:30
trevarthanWhat I'd really like to do is get you to commit to helping us do additional things with the theme, like button down images, images for the OK button, etc...22:31
trevarthanBut, so long as we've got the PSD file I'm sure we can muddle through if you lose interest. :)22:32
unique311i'm not..22:32
trevarthanwell, thanks for the work so far. I think it looks better than the original. The fonts pop a lot more, in particular. I really like that.22:33
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erstazitrevarthan, can I see the psd? I am a web dev, I can help possibly22:34
unique311don't know how the bluetooth looks on the device..22:34
unique311trevarthan,  there ya go..more interest in it already.22:35
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trevarthanerstazi: maybe you and unique311 should get together? It's his psd. I could mail it to you, or he could....22:42
unique311send it to him22:43
trevarthanerstazi: have you installed kagu yet?22:43
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erstazitrevarthan, I can tonight22:43
unique311if he can figure out that pink pixel thing i'll be more than happy22:43
erstaziwhat hex do you need it to match?22:44
trevarthanyeah. probably won't do much good playing with the psd until you've run kagu and know what to expect.22:44
erstazitrevarthan, of course, but it never hurts22:44
trevarthanerstazi: colorkey (aka transparency pixel) is pulled from the rightmost bottom pixel.22:44
unique311the right most bottom pixel which is pink right.22:45
trevarthanerstazi: if you can tell unique311 how to do a bucket color fill without antialiasing (or a layer without antialiasing), that would probably solve his problem.22:46
trevarthanunique311: no, if the right most bottom pixel is pink, then the colorkey is pink. if it's blue, then the colorkey is blue, etc...22:46
trevarthanon the default theme, it's pink.22:46
trevarthanon the one you sent me, unique311, I think it's white.22:47
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unique311it is.22:47
unique311erstazi whats your email address.22:48
erstaziunique311, let me pm you for this, this channel is logged, don't like spam filling up my spam folder...22:48
trevarthanerstazi: default theme sprites.png is here, BTW:
unique311ok, google just locked down my email account.  wtf22:49
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zyxulnagaanyone knows of an embedded device with a wireless chipset that supports packet injection?22:50
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trevarthanunique311: erstazi: eventually I want to do a layout table too, so you guys can move buttons around on the screen to your heart's content. But it'll be a little while before I get around to that, I think.22:55
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trevarthanI plan to do a portrait mode too, so the layout functionality will play into that.22:56
erstazitrevarthan, did you port keru?22:56
_Monkeykagu is
trevarthanwrote it from scratch.22:56
trevarthandisq helped a lot too.22:56
unique311sent erstazi22:58
unique311k, gimp up and running...round 2 with png...22:58
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erstaziwow thats light weight, .17kb23:04
erstazifor the install23:05
amrinertial scrolling?23:07
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roope  does somebody understand that question.23:07
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trevarthanamr: it means that you drag the list with your finger and it moves. If you flick it, it keeps spinning until it runs out of inertia.23:08
amroh sweet23:08
amrlike what the iphone does now23:09
trevarthanmaybe. dunno, never used one23:09
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roopetrevarthan: what do you think of ukmp?23:09
trevarthanI was trying to think of some way to make scrolling easy without implementing an on-screen ipod finger wheel and get sued. :)23:09
amrits pretty cool23:10
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amrill have to install it when i get my 77023:10
amrif the postal service every goes off strike :(23:10
trevarthanroope: kagu is a knock off of ukmp's look and feel (but completely different under the hood), so I guess you could say I was inspired by it.23:10
roopeYeah. I cannot help but to notice the similarities, that's all .:)23:10
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trevarthanit also has elements of canola's ui thrown in, though very little (the back button comes to mind)23:11
roopeDo you have any further plans? New views or functionalities coming up?23:11
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_Handful_the back button rocks =) (lol)23:11
amri have no idea what either of them are23:11
trevarthanroope: tons. check the Things To Do (TTD) list here:
_Handful_I really like because it's python =)23:12
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disq_Handful_: does canola currently implement com.osso.Playback(.Manager) support?23:12
trevarthanAlso, the project is fully open to new developers. All you have to do is prove to me that you're not an idiot (one patch is usually enough) and I'll give you full commit access and a license to work on whatever you'd like. (so long as you're not an idiot) :)23:12
roopeLooks nice.23:13
roopeThe todolist, that is.23:13
_Handful_roope : about that question... the guy wants to boot symbian on top of maemo =) it's quite funny the idea...23:13
disqtrevarthan: heh, that idiot bit is inspired by linus' git talk isn't it :)23:13
trevarthanroope: I'm sort of in the process of moving that list over to Trac's Ticket/Milestone system.23:13
_Handful_trevarthan: good strategy =)23:13
roopeI'm quite baffled by it. Does he mean that could symbian run on the n800 hardware.23:13
roope"Porting" symbian to "n800" is kind of wt.f23:13
trevarthandisq: yeah. it is. he thinks a lot like I do, surprisingly.23:14
_Handful_I think he wanted something like parallells desktop23:14
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_Handful_or vmware =)23:14
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_Handful_to be able to run both ... that's quite insane =) I know we are advancing in mobile.. but this is far away =)23:14
roopeWhy not just buy a symbian device.23:16
_Handful_yeah.. lot easier =)23:16
whaq_I'd settle for JRE...23:16
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trevarthandisq: I used to work with the TMDA developer a lot. Fellow named Jason Maastaler, I think. He used to refer to himself as a benevolent dictator of the project. I asked him to describe what that meant once, and he basically said the same thing. He's got veto power, but never uses it. Linus obviously has that down to a science. And I like the way git allows an individual developer to do his own thing regardless of whether or not Linus th23:17
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disquh, 255 char limit23:18
trevarthanah, frick23:18
trevarthan I asked him to describe what that meant once, and he basically said the same thing. He's got veto power, but never uses it.23:18
trevarthanLinus obviously has that down to a science. And I like the way git allows an individual developer to do his own thing regardless of whether or not Linus thinks he's an idiot.23:18
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trevarthanThat's important. Linus is wrong sometimes, I'm sure.23:18
trevarthanwish it warned me about that.23:19
trevarthanI'm using pidgin. Not the best IRC client ever...23:19
disqi wonder if it's the server's limitation or client's. probably clients23:19
Fatalsome clients compensate23:20
Fatalsome clients just lets the user go on and on without warning them they're breaking the limit23:20
Fatalwhat's the command to make the server relist its capabilites/limits etc23:22
amrcan i get irssi on the 770?23:23
disqi think /cabap23:24
amrif not ill just ssh into my box and leave it running in a screen23:24
disqerm no /cabap is for registering client capabilities (like /capab identify)23:24
pupnikirssi is available23:24
amrsomeone program me a 'same game' clone :p23:25
pupnikis that like 'memory'?23:25
amri dont think so23:26
amris memory the game where you have to find pairs of things23:26
amryeah this is different23:26
amrlet me see if i can find what i mean23:26
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pupnikSimon Tatham's Portable Puzzle Collection for maemo is excellent23:27
_Handful_I would like to port something like the incredible machine + lost vikings + marsupilami + krusty fun house =)23:28
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amrthats it23:30
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pupnikty amr23:30
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pupnikamr, you win by clearing the field and lose if you are left with single blocks remaining in the field?23:32
amrand then extra colours are brought in at each new level23:33
amrbut some games dont add the extra levels23:33
amrwith extras such as, the more blocks you clear at one time23:33
amrso if you get a massive group of reds say23:33
amryou get more points23:33
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trevarthanamr: 5600, first try. I suck, eh?23:34
amri havent been looking at the scores, oops23:35
pupniki didn't clear the first level first try23:35
trevarthanI got lucky, I think.23:35
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pupnikamr: got you covered:
pupnikit needs some tweaking for the 770/N800 screen though23:38
trevarthanpupnik should change his name to gamepimp23:39
pupnikwell that was literally a 2 minute port23:39
pupniki timed it :P23:39
trevarthanno .desktop file yet?23:40
pupnikneeds some hildonisation - the menu takes up too much real estate23:40
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pupnikif nobody does it, i'll do it when i start learning about hildon23:41
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trevarthanwhat's somegame called in the menu?23:41
pupnikit's under 'arcade'23:42
trevarthanyeah, inplayable cause no fullscreen.23:42
infobottrevarthan meant: yeah, unplayable cause no fullscreen.23:43
trevarthanport it! That's cool!23:43
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trevarthanI wonder what they use for the drawing? wonder if I could use the same thing to make a non-pygame version of kagu...23:44
pupnikthe actual game window for samegame is 410 pixels on my PC23:45
trevarthanI don't like how kagu hogs CPU.23:45
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disqgah. pymaemo is missing dbus.gobject_service23:49
trevarthanwhat did you want that for again?23:50
disqosso.playback.manager thingy marc-andre mentioned23:50
trevarthanfor the headset button?23:50
disqeach player has to implement an interface to be managed by osso-hss-control23:51
disqno for better system integration (with voip calls etc)23:51
trevarthanwas it gobject, or qobject? I thought I saw qobject mentioned recently...23:52
disqanyway it's ok if we don't implement it since we're using ossomediaserver as the player23:52
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disqgobject, as in glib23:52
trevarthanI keep missing semi-colons and forgetting brackets in PHP since I've been doing so much python lately. driving me nuts.23:53
disqi keep putting semicolons in python code and then noticing them after i type23:54
MoRpHeUzdisq: as you can only play 1 media file at a given time, this osso.playback.manager would be useless with osso media engine, right ?23:54
trevarthanyeah, you committed some too. python didn't seem to care.23:54
disqMoRpHeUz: don't ask me :) not sure23:55
MoRpHeUzdisq: hehe, same here...I'm trying to figure out this =)23:55
MoRpHeUzdisq: it looks like it's something "for the future" hehe...23:56
trevarthandisq: I wonder if we could make a scroll widget in GTK, then rewrite kagu to use GTK?23:56
trevarthanI wonder if it would be fast enough. I'd kill for a real event driven API. :)23:56
disqtrevarthan: we'd have to test that23:56
disqi'd kill for actual widgets23:57
trevarthanyeah... me too23:57
trevarthanI really hate abusing a game api to do an application. :)23:57
MoRpHeUztrevarthan: there is already a scroll widget with inertia in GTK..23:58
trevarthanMoRpHeUz: really? got an example, link, docs, anything?23:58
disqMoRpHeUz: tell us more23:58
trevarthanI'll rewrite the whole damn thing if it works. :)23:58
MoRpHeUztrevarthan, disq:
MoRpHeUztrevarthan, disq:

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