IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2007-07-27

roundeyehey cosmo you konw where i can confim that i am useing hte dns server i chose?00:01
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roundeyei try cating out /etc/resolve.conf00:02
roundeyebut it stil says
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cosmohm, weird. i think it should be in resolv.conf00:02
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roundeyei tried manul change in resolve.conf but no dice00:02
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Disconnectmaemo uses a dns cache00:02
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roundeyethe problem is that the current name server dose not resolve so i cant send txt msg to my gf00:03
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roundeyei thougt that by using a dns server that did i would change the problem00:03
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roundeyehow can i verify what dns server im using00:05
roundeyecosmo what does your /etc/resolve.conf say?00:05
robtayloraCiDBaSe: there?00:06
_Monkeythere is some app that is drawing a lot of power00:07
roundeyewhere is the dns info held?00:07
cosmoi'll go to bed, good luck00:07
roundeyek take it easy00:08
robtayloraCiDBaSe: so i'm going to try getting my new python packages to understand the compressed stuff00:08
robtayloraCiDBaSe: is 04-import.patch the right patch?00:08
roundeyewhats the recipient not found on server about00:08
roundeyeat home there is no problem sending mail00:08
roundeyefrom work it tells me "ecipient not found on server"00:09
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aCiDBaSerobtaylor: yes... this patch modify the behavior of the python standard import hook...00:09
robtaylorcool, i'll try pulling it in and see what happens00:09
aCiDBaSerobtaylor: you can take a look at this thread in python-dev:
robtayloraCiDBaSe: cool, thanks :)00:11
roundeyewhere is the dns information stored on the 770 mistrasl00:12
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aCiDBaSerobtaylor: a quick summary: I'm introducing a "bug" of zipimport hook in standard import hook.00:13
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robtayloraCiDBaSe: yep, figure that much00:18
robtayloraCiDBaSe: what's the plan going forward?00:18
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aCiDBaSerobtaylor: I don't know :/ I'm thinking about stop zip the python modules and start to use python-{support,central}...00:20
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robtayloraCiDBaSe: its all a bit hard really :/00:29
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robtayloraCiDBaSe: i guess you don't want to distribute python source, and thats quite at odds with teh current debian scheme, i think00:30
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aCiDBaSeyes, this is a big problem (I don't like the idea of bytecompiling python modules during installation too)00:32
aCiDBaSeI think that we need to take a look into python-{support,central} and suggest some changes...00:33
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robtayloraCiDBaSe: yeah, this'll take some discussion with the debian guys.. shame we missed debconf :)00:34
robtaylorI wonder...00:34
robtaylornope,can't think of a good way to do it00:36
robtayloraCiDBaSe: so, at the moment, with python2.5-runtime etc, you don't actually distribute the source, right?00:36
aCiDBaSeright... only the .pyo/.so files...00:37
aCiDBaSeand .pyc/py in *-dev packages...00:37
robtaylorwhich makes sense00:38
robtayloraCiDBaSe: the optimised builds are dependant on a particular version of theinterpreter, right?00:39
robtayloraCiDBaSe: thats the main problem for debian guys (and for us for some degree)00:40
robtayloraCiDBaSe: cos just installing the pyo would break if you upgraded python, right?00:41
aCiDBaSerobtaylor: nopz... the difference between pyc and pyo files are: pyo doesn't include the assertions and docstrings...00:42
robtayloraCiDBaSe: so a pyo should be readable by all 2.5.x?00:42
robtaylorsame, pyc00:43
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aCiDBaSeyes... even the pyo/pyc from 2.4.x00:43
robtaylorhmm, but debian byte-compiles the sources into sperate dirs for python2.5/2.4/2.3/2.6...00:45
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aCiDBaSeyes... because we can have changes in modules for one version of python to other...00:45
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robtaylorick, the only way to do this is to have a completely different set of packaging to debian :(00:47
robtaylorI guess we could have a clever tool that generates python2.5-foo from python-foo that provides python-foo00:48
robtaylorbut thats a bit ick00:48
aCiDBaSeyes... we've to make a big change in the current build system *and* some changes in python-{support,central} to make this packages good for devices with constraints of disk space and CPU...00:50
robtaylorwell you don;t even really want python-central on small disk space00:51
aCiDBaSewe'll do that but we need a good plan to make this happen before start the job...00:52
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robtayloraCiDBaSe: i think this is worth chatting with the ubuntuites about00:54
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aCiDBaSerobtaylor: cool... they are planning to use python-central (preferably)01:03
robtaylorthey want to have standard packaging like on debian01:04
robtaylorbut they havn't realised the downside01:04
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aCiDBaSeyes... they will find the "problems" :)01:04
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aCiDBaSebut I think we need work together with Ubuntu guys and make the suggestions to change the python-central to accomplish our needs to them...01:06
aCiDBaSecreate some system that enable us to bytecompile the python modules during package building (instead of during the installation) and distribute only the bytecode version of the modules...01:07
robtaylori can;t see a good solution yet though01:07
robtaylorthe problem with that is it means everyone needs to have the old problem01:08
robtaylorof having python2.4-foo and 2.5-foo in their debian/control01:08
robtaylori don;t think we could pursaude people to go back to that01:08
aCiDBaSeyes... you are right...01:09
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robtaylormaybe there's a way to get dh_genchages to add packages not in control01:12
robtaylorah, oh, its dpkg-genchanges, of course01:13
robtaylorso it just carea sbout having a correctly unpacked tree to add01:13
robtaylorit might be possible to have make a script that automaticlaly generates byte-compliled variations which provide the original01:15
robtayloramke make that done by sh_pycentral01:15
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roundeyewtf is up with maemo.org01:20
roundeyedamn thing keeps going down all day01:20
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roundeyewhere is here im in los angeles01:23
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milhouseroundeye: sorry for not specifying :) i'm in London, UK01:24
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fro1garage seems dead from IT as well01:25
tigertfrom here too01:26
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derfgarage responds intermittently for me.01:28
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derfOr at least it did as of a few hours ago.01:28
derfIf you wait a _really_ long time, a page shows up.01:29
robtayloraCiDBaSe: damn, just putting in the import patch doesnt help :/01:31
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unique311i give up...01:37
unique311i'm goind bsd01:37
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joshinHow much of a pain is it to port an app to work with maemo?  Lincity, I'm looking at you...01:47
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fro1joshin: depends on the app01:49
robtayloraCiDBaSe: ah, my bad, patch didn't apply01:49
joshinfro1: Ok, that tells me that it is going to suck for all definitions of the word suck.  :)01:50
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tigertfro1: basic stuff is probably easy02:08
tigertfro1: the hard part is usually the user interface02:08
tigertbecause, while it might work just out of the box (well, it's linux, gtk and X11 anyway..)02:08
tigertwhat matters is the user scenario is a lot different on a handheld device02:08
tigertso the ui should be re-thought for touchscreen, mostly finger-use02:09
tigertthis is harder to do02:09
tigertand takes effort02:09
fro1I know02:09
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fro1joshin: tigert has been a lot more exhaustive than me02:09
tigertoh heh, and I nicely mixed the person I talked to02:10
tigertanyway, this was naturally meant for joshin02:10
joshinThanks.  I was just looking at LinCity and thinking of how neat that would be on the 770/80002:10
tigertthen again the touchscreen ui can actually make very interesting input possibilities for games and other apps02:12
tigertbecause you can poke things directly02:12
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Luriaanyone gotten an nx client working with the n800?02:37
Luriayeah, i read that02:39
Luriabut its almost 6month old02:40
jonnylambThat's all I know I'm afraid.02:40
Luriak, thanks02:40
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roundeyeany one konw where i can get some dns tools02:46
roundeyefor mistral02:46
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pupnik_i complain about the dpad constantly - it is horrible for games and fast movement - but is is well designed for slow clicks through menus02:58
pupnik_we should give the designers some respect02:58
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derfI basically want to use the d-pad for one thing: scrolling around web pages.02:59
derfFor that, it is horrible.03:00
pupnikit clicks up and down03:00
pupnikwhat is the problem?03:00
_Monkeythe problem is probably when I try to save the javascript as bookmark, the script is too long and gets truncated so it won't work on the default opera browser in N77003:00
pupnik_Monkey: forget "the problem"03:01
_Monkeypupnik, I didn't have anything matching "the problem"03:01
derfpupnik: Well, part of that is the browser's fault more than the d-pad's.03:01
pupnik_Monkey: forget "he problem03:01
_Monkeypupnik, I didn't have anything matching "he problem03:01
derfIn that clicking up and down doesn't scroll.03:01
derfIt jumps between links.03:01
derfYou have to hold it down to scroll.03:01
milhouseforget problem03:01
_Monkeymilhouse: I forgot problem03:01
derfAnd then it scrolls way too fast.03:02
pupnikderf do you think the people complaining about acmonitor battery life degradation are hallucinating?03:02
pupniki'm considering running some tests03:02
derfPlease do.03:02
pupniki'm the drunkest person in this channel.  anybody can set up a cronjob to echo times to a text file and see how long a battery takes to die03:03
roundeyewhere do you put the super tux data after install of supertux,deb03:07
derfActually, reviewing the code, it looks like it will continue to ping the network once a minute if it was connected when you unplugged it (until it's disconnected).03:07
derfBut I wouldn't think once a minute would drastically affect battery life.03:08
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NeoStriderg'night fellas03:51
unique311NeoStrider, did ya get smw going?03:53
NeoStriderdidnt tried it03:53
NeoStriderjust got into my computer03:54
NeoStriderim checkin out the svn03:54
NeoStrideris the garage website dead?03:54 I finally got it03:54
NeoStriderbut im trying since this day morning03:55
NeoStrider(here is 21:55 PM)03:55
unique311not sure whats going on with maemo..03:55
unique311probably maintainance..03:55
NeoStriderI dunno03:56
unique311maemo not loading for me here03:56
NeoStriderwhere are you from?03:57
NeoStriderim on SMW website...its like jumps and bumps?!03:58
NeoStrideranyone willing to try my game?03:59 working for you03:59
NeoStridereverything is up here04:00
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V-I-Plies mal die sachen über augenlaserbehandlung, laut kann lasik das gut behandeln04:33
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NeoStriderjust tried smw04:35
NeoStriderIT ROCKS!04:35
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zakxanyone here knowing who's in charge of
NeoStridergood question05:41
NeoStriderI guess is it ferenc?05:41
zakxi'd like to mirror the actual website and wiki as it's freaking slow but i really don't know who to contact05:41
zakxonly thing the website says is, that it's sponsored by nokia05:42
NeoStriderwell..the website seem to be a bit unstable these couple days05:42
NeoStridertoday the garage was unacessible to me05:42
NeoStriderand the SVN still is05:43
zakxseems like it's hosted somewhere in finland05:43
zakxthe responsibility's just horrible05:43
zakxerr, availability05:44 is a finish company...05:45
NeoStrider(finish or finnish?)05:45
zakxFinland, but finnish05:45
NeoStriderbut about availability, its temporary05:45
zakxit has been like that since i purchased my n800 in may05:46
NeoStriderI hope so05:46
NeoStriderwhat website are you browsing?05:46
proctowhere are you zakx?05:46
zakxmaemo.org05:46 is ok here, but is down (and has been down for several hours)05:46
zakxi'm sitting in germany05:46
proctoit's not the fastest thing ever05:46
zakxyeah, i know05:46
proctobut it's fairly responsive05:46
proctoand I'm in the US05:46
zakxi hate waiting around 120 secords for 3KB05:47
NeoStriderIm in Brazil (POTS!) and I still can browse it05:47
NeoStriderindeed my project is hosted on the garage05:47
NeoStriderits quite fast05:47
NeoStriderI downloaded the intire SDK from there05:47
zakxthe repository's fast here too05:48
zakxbut the main web site isn't05:48
NeoStridereverything here is fast, when its working05:48
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kamihackerit's been on and off since this afternoon06:04
kamihackerthey have  reverse proxy in front06:04
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kamihackerand it seems to be having issues06:04
NeoStriderI cant acess garage SVN for about 24 hours06:09
unique311smw is working for you neo?06:16
NeoStriderdesktop yes06:17
NeoStrider770 no06:17
unique311aww man.06:17
unique311so it only works on the n80006:17
unique311not a good thing...06:17
NeoStriderbut works the way it should be or need hacking?06:18
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unique311of windowed mode06:18
unique311can't do a fullscreen..06:19
unique311not sure how.06:19
unique311window mode sucks...missing 10 percent of the screen at the bottom06:19
NeoStriderthe game is very funny!06:20
NeoStridera friend of mine did a clone ,sometime ago, in SDL too06:21
NeoStriderjumps and bumps06:21
NeoStriderits the same thing06:21
unique311i need super maryo chronicles....i'm going thru hell trying to install ubuntu with working wifi06:21
NeoStriderwe indeed presented it in a college event06:22
NeoStrideri have nightmares about wifi on ubuntu06:22
unique311i need to do a video of gameplay on the N80006:22
unique311get that done now...and upload it..06:22
NeoStriderthe most visited post on my blog is about my complains about it06:22
NeoStriderwhats your wifi, unique311?06:23
NeoStrider( )06:23
unique311wpa is not working..06:23
unique311i have security set high..06:24
unique311the password encrytion is set to wpa206:24
unique311wpa-supplicant is not playing nice.06:25
unique311so i tried fedora06:25
unique311same thing..06:25
NeoStrideractually, I know sh*t about wifi06:25
NeoStriderso maybe it would work...but I dont want to hack everything on my computer to make it work06:26
NeoStridersometimes you just it to "just work"06:26
NeoStriderwe all are already busy with our projects06:26
NeoStriderand my ad-hoc+proxy scheme it not working with the 770 anymore...06:28
NeoStriderany idea?06:28
unique311hold on06:29
unique311sorry about that...06:37
unique311made a shitty video just now..06:38
NeoStriderwe all do shitty videos ;-)06:38
unique311no..i do shitty videos...06:39
unique311ad-hoc proxy scheme..06:39
unique311not a clue06:39
unique311uploading video now...06:40
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unique311only 6mb06:40
NeoStriderlets see who's got the most shitty video...06:40
unique311not big at all06:40
NeoStridermy last was 16 MB06:41
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NeoStridermost of dark stuff and out of focus 77006:41
unique311i record my videos on my ppc670006:41
unique311doesn't get any shitti(er)06:42
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unique3111.3 mp06:42
unique311its a phone for god sakes...06:42
NeoStrider3.1 mp...but shitty light capture sensors06:42
unique311if you are using a camera you go tme beat06:42
NeoStridermine is a camera...06:42
NeoStrider"tme beat"?06:43
unique311here goes nothing06:44
unique311check it out everybody06:44
NeoStriderlooks way better than my videos =-P06:44
unique311hmmm. slow connection...06:44
unique311i under estimate my ppc06:45
unique311speed on the game is on normal..06:45
NeoStridertelevision on background...where is the game audio?06:45
unique311my volume is down06:46
unique311redo06:46 my volume was up..06:46
unique311sound worked yesterday..06:46
unique311maybe i change the settings and too sound off06:47
unique311hold on06:47
unique311sound is grey'd out.06:49
NeoStrider"its mario!" =-p06:50
unique311i did run it the first time as root06:50
unique311maybe tis why06:50
NeoStriderwhats the key for pause?06:50
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NeoStrideryeah..maybe its that06:50
unique311but you can keymap in options>controls06:51
NeoStriderI see...I guess you should change this06:51
unique311all the keys on the dvice can be mapped06:51
NeoStriderthe meny key is a good candidate06:51
NeoStriderbut change the default06:51
_MonkeyNeoStrider: that doesn't look right06:51
unique311but i want my sound...06:51
NeoStriderthe average joe wont know about it06:51
unique311think when you run it as root you get sound..06:51
unique311not sure why06:52
NeoStridermaybe its acess to /dev/dsp (or something like that)06:53
unique311turn the device off and try...06:54
unique311i tried it as root06:54
unique311no go06:54
unique311really sucks..06:55
unique311go from having it acting up..06:55
unique311sound works again06:56
unique311do another video with sound...and then attend to my notebook...06:57
NeoStriderbe sure to double test it before going on making the video06:58
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unique311think i know why the sound didn't want to work....06:59
unique311i brung down framerate to 4006:59
unique311and 60 is normal..07:00
unique311i did change it back to 60 and did the reboot..07:00
unique311but i'll look into that more07:00
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NeoStriderlets check it out07:18
unique311i suck at it..07:21
NeoStrideralmost every gamedev suck at the games he make...thats why he's a gamedev =-P07:22
unique311i didn't make this game..07:24
unique311not a gamedev either...07:24
NeoStriderbut you ported it...this makes you part of the chain07:24
unique311pupnik compiled it.07:24
unique311my scratchbox ws broken.07:24
unique311I tried porting it, but was getting sdl errors07:25
unique311pupnik compiled it witout no errors.07:25
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unique311when i get scratchbox up..i will take a look at the source and see if i can get it to fill up the fullscreen.07:26
unique311if you have a comes with a level editor.07:27 is always welcome ;-)07:27
unique311hopefully i get ubuntu working07:28
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unique311aiming for this on the n800 when i get scratchbox up.07:29
NeoStridercool game!07:33
NeoStridersuper tux game engine?07:33
unique311no clue07:34
unique311its definitely a project07:35
unique311ported to the gp32x already07:35
NeoStriderwhat wasnt ported to it? =-p07:36
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NeoStriderwell...i give up07:38
NeoStrideri cant get the radar to work on angstron07:38
NeoStrideri will try more later07:38
NeoStriderim too damn tired...07:38
NeoStrideralmost 2 AM here07:39
NeoStridersee you all later07:39
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rcaronmy 770 is just in a restart loop. just see the nokia logo (doesn't even get to the hands)07:41
rcaroni've left the batt out for an hour to let it cold start and have kept it on AC after that to make sure its charged - no change07:41
Presence_you might be able to get in remotely if you have ssh07:41
Presence_unlikely though07:42
Presence_might have to flash it :(07:42
rcaronnever got around to setting up an sshd. only had dropbear on it07:43
Presence_same thing :)07:43
rcaronwell, as a client.07:43
Presence_ah, ok07:43
Presence_probably going to have to flash it07:43
Presence_if you plug it into a pc you probably will stay in usb mode07:43
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rcaroncontinues to restart, although the usb symbol does flash for a moment in the upper right corner07:47
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megabyte405rcaron: hold down the home button as you plug it in07:53
megabyte405this will put it into firmware flashing mod07:53
megabyte405then reflash07:54
megabyte405the windows utility talks you through that07:54
rcaronthx megabyte405. got a link to the linux utility by any chance?07:59
megabyte405rcaron: search maemo.org08:02
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rcaronthe website backend seems to be broken. i'm getting errors in the headers about midcom08:04
rcaronugh. following the wiki flashing procedures. when i turn it on after the flasher is waiting, it detects briefly but then it does a restart and i'm dumped back to command line08:10
disquh. corrupt vmware image file. the friday nightmare begins08:11
rcaronso is this thing bricked?08:13
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megabyte405rcaron: it's very, very tough to brick them, but possible.  Can you get it to stay at the white Nokia screen with the USB connection logo in the corner?08:34
megabyte405if you can, then you can flash.08:34
megabyte405(that's what happens when you hold down the home key, with the AC unplugged and the USB plugged in)08:34
megabyte405I'm out - good luck!08:34
rcaronwell, it looks like i got lucky. reflashing now08:36
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_Monkeybonjour, Savi_Bot09:21
Savi_Bothello monkey09:21
Savi_Botguys i cant run gps on my nokia 770 where to get hildon-libs0 ?????09:21
Savi_Botany idea where i could probably download it?09:22
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MDKhildon-libs is one of the core ui/widget libraries09:31
MDKyou must already have it on the device09:31
tigertI think the problem is09:32
inzEven if it is running IT200509:32
tigertyou try to install a newer package or such?09:32
MDKit's prolly sh libs stuff09:33
tigertis the app for os2006 or 7?09:33
tigertlooks like gregale misses debconf package09:33
tigertwhich is required by openssh09:33
MDKI think we had a screwup in the latest mistral update09:33
MDKeverything built against that would not be installable in the prev releases09:33
tigertI had to add the maemo bora base repo in order to install ssh on gregale09:33
MDKeven though it's binary/API compatible09:33
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MDKit's just that deps/versions are screwed09:34
tigertI just never noticed my ssh dep problem since the backup too had backed up my repositories09:34
tigertwhich is an interesting scenario otherwise too, when you restore a backup from an old software release, you get the old repositories..09:35
tigertperhaps we should start using some variable for distro name there? would that work?09:35
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tigertso instead of "bora" it would have "$current_release" somehow09:36
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MDKbtw, is there an updated plankton? or the version on your blog is the latest and greatest?09:43
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guardianmorning maemo10:23
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guardianwhen compiling my code for the n80010:35
guardianis there anything special to do to enable VFP ?10:36
guardianany compiler option ?10:36
inz-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp I guess10:37
guardiando those flag have any influence when compiling for x96 ?10:38
inzThey might break things, dunno10:39
guardianok thx10:39
inzguardian, the i386-gcc doesn't like the options at all10:40
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dubdibdu1hi there...10:43
dubdibdu1...i have a )little( prob10:43
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dubdibdu1i've made a backup from my n800 via 0xFFFF -e /pathtommc onto a one gig mmc10:44
dubdibdu1now i want to restore it via flasher and that doesnt work10:45
dubdibdu1when i try a flash -f -n INITFS.JFF -r ROOTFS.JFF -x XLOADER.BIN -s SECONDAR.BIN -k ZIMAGE i get: X-Loader image is too big10:46
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dubdibdu1without the xloader image i get To flash the bootloader, you have to supply the X-Loader image10:47
triplemashi @ all10:47
dubdibdu1hi there10:48
_Monkeybonjour, dubdibdu110:48
dubdibdu1everything won't be a prob if at least  flash -f -r ROOTFS.JFF would work10:48
dubdibdu1it starts flashing, and then:10:48
dubdibdu1100% (257280 of 257280 kB, avg. 32047 kB/s)10:48
dubdibdu1Finishing flashing... Sending request 0x52 failed!10:48
dubdibdu1Unable to get error strings: Connection timed out10:49
dubdibdu1/who dubdibdub10:49
triplemasi'd like to wake up my win pc with a "wake on lan" (wol) tool from my nokia 770. is there a solution? i haven't found any ported software at meamo or google... :-(10:49
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VladDracI wrote a pythonscript that wakes on lan10:51
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triplemasjuuuuhu yeees...:-)  great how can i get this script?10:52
pelloVladDrac: go works your tetrinet ;)10:52
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VladDracpello :)10:53
dubdibdu1try apt-get source wakeonlan10:53
dubdibdu1thats a perl script10:53
dubdibdu1you can also try etherwake10:53
dubdibdu1(should be crosscompilable)10:54
VladDracwell it's pretty simple anyway10:54
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VladDracafaik you just need to make sure the packets arrive at your compunters network interface, port 22 is arbitrary (but it's forwarded through my router)10:55
dubdibdu1does anyone know why i cannot flash that ROOTFS.JFF image 0xffff built for me??10:56
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rhysSOB noone told me this chan was logged11:04
guardian_anyone had a look at the vkb hildon input plugin ?11:04
guardian_i was surprised by one thing11:04
guardian_i thought it would use a GtkFixed container11:04
guardian_with GtkButtons inside11:05
guardian_or a mix of GtkVBox and GtkHBox for rows and keys11:05
inzrhys, all channels are logged by someone, maybe not always publicly11:05
guardian_but instead, the widget does the painting all by itself11:05
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guardian_and mimmic the look of buttons11:05
guardian_is this for performance reasons ???11:05
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rhysgoogle rhys.rhaven. :\ i guess it doesnt matter, as it already returns my email on the zenwalk ML. but w/e.11:05
guardianlike having ~100 buttons would cause too much size requests and size allocates ?11:06
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guardian_anyone replied while i was disconnected ? :)11:08
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whaq_aloha mora11:42
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AD-N770good morning11:44
* Jaffa likes the direction the "sb2 & maemo" thread is taking on maemo-dev11:45
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maddlermorning all12:34
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* pupnik waves12:36
* keesj waves back12:50
keesjlaggy connection12:51
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geaaruhi at all, anyone know what are methods and interfaces of dbus service? Introspect method is implemented?12:55
pupnikkeesj: google points to a broken link for synergy - is it up somewhere else?13:02
pupniki have a copy on my site if anyone needs it13:02
keesjpupnik: I think on the download page?13:02
keesjis it down AGAIN !13:03
_Monkeypupnik is guessing that you need  a full version of tar and not the busybox version13:08
unique311compiled smc13:08
unique311but getting an error..13:08
pupnik_Monkey: forget pupnik13:08
_Monkeypupnik: I forgot pupnik13:08
unique311warning : could not init 16 bit audio13:09
unique311and screen mode creation failed..13:09
unique311maximum supported bitdepth is 1613:09
pupnikyes, it tries 32,24 and then falls back to 1513:09
pupnikyou don't get any sound?13:10
unique311well this is in scratchbox.13:10
unique311i'm getting the errors13:10
pupniki don't get sound on scratchbox, but i do on the device13:11
unique311shitty video of smw with sound13:11
pupniki found a few levels that have too many sprites for the 770 to handle full speed13:12
pupniki think we can get those load times reduced13:13
guardian_crap13:13 is down13:13
guardian_right at the time i want to download software update13:13
unique311so its working on the 770 now?13:13
unique311going to try smc on the n800..13:13
unique311if i get the same errors..guess it wasn;t meant to be.13:14
unique311version 0.9713:14
unique311no luck with the gp32x version.13:14
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pupnikthey did a bang up job with the graphics and levels13:16
pupnikwe have to get netplay giong :)13:17
unique311if you have a keybaord..13:17
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unique311theirs a leveleditor13:17
unique311sdl_net....someone on the forum was working on it.13:18
pupnikit would be nice if we could reduce the load times13:22
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pupniklooks like the game wants a full 64MB of memory for itself13:22
pupnikhi lardman!13:22
lardmanhi pupnik13:22
lardmanAny gdb gurus here?13:23
* pupnik looks at feet13:23
lardmanCan gdb follow instructions into thumb (or dare I say jazelle) mode?13:23
* lardman will have to trawl the gdb mailing listsd13:23
pupnikthere are some smart ppl in #debian-arm lardman13:23
lardmanpupnik: Okay, I'll join & lurk for a bit13:24
lardmanurg, not on this server13:25
pupnikmaybe oftc13:25
lardmanfound it, had to work out whether my client could connect to more than one server :)13:27
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geaaruis it possible exec browser with url command line param? Or how can i open browser dinamically to a particular page?13:37
lardmangeaaru: It must be possible somehow, as the bookmarks bit of the UI does this, may be DBUS?13:38
keesjgeaaru: via dbus , there are example around13:39
geaaruk i use dbus-monitor to handle correct param and interface to use on dbus. ty13:39
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geaaru:'( from dbus-monitor i see only request name (open dbus connection) of and dbus services13:41
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geaarunot informations about can do it13:41
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florianhi all13:43
lardmanDoes the format string in printf() have to be constant?13:45
lardmanI'm pretty sure I was able to get it to accept a variable string13:45
* lardman is trying to work out why his inline asm calling printf isn't working13:45
Jaffahi florian13:47
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pupniki hear complaints about gcc and inline asm13:47
pupnikand advice "avoid it"13:47
lardmanah, it's okay, seems to work well13:48
lardmanI think bigger complaint about GCC's optimising away my C variables so I can't use them in the asm!13:48
lardmanBut I'm sure that's mainly my fault13:48
lardmanI can step through the asm using gdb. The first bxj appears to jump straight to my handler, the second vanishes and the CPU heads up to ~95%13:49
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lardmanthough no error which is nice, so presumably it's actually trying to do something, God only knows what though13:49
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lardmanpupnik: I think you may be right though, there are too many constraints using inline, I should probably write the whole program in asm13:54
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pupnikif i were rich i'd post a $10,000 bounty for a JIT x86->ARM (dyanmic recompilation) module for dosbox...13:57
lardmanThere must be people working on that sort of thing already?13:59
lardmanThough low power x86 compatiable chips may make it obsolete13:59
pupniksadly nobody is.14:00
pupnikjit dosbox on an OMAP 3430 would be so sweet14:00
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eichi_N800someone knows maemo there a way to route train routes?14:18
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pupnikkeesj: is this your project?
keesjnope , I just did a compile in mud14:31
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pupnikhow do i download mud packages?14:35
pupnikwhat repo do they go to?14:35
pupnikbtw is back14:36
keesjpupnik: why don't you use ?14:38
Jaffapupnik: mud packages are derived from whatever upstream repo you want14:38
keesjpupnik: for mud package I would sujest to just checkout mud and run it :p14:39
pupnikty for the quicksynergy thing14:39
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pupnikthose install links are nice... I have to set them up for my pages14:40
pupnikfinished typing keesj's url into opera!14:45
timelessjait: pong14:48
timeless_guardian: buttons don't really match the behavior they want for sticky/dead keys14:48
timelessgeaaru: there's a --url= param to browser, not sure if it's documented, and i suppose we don't claim support, but devs do need one for testing so it probably wouldn't go away14:48
geaarutimeless: ty. i try. :)14:49
timelessgeaaru: /some/ portion of the browser is open source14:49
timelessyou could probably just read it14:49
geaaruwhere i can found sources?14:50
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timelesslooks promising14:50
timelessspecifically line 38 or 6314:50
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Toma-is there any problems running a python script based app on a 770?14:51
geaaruNokia-N800-26:~# browser --url=http://www.jusan.it14:51
geaaruNokia-N800-26:~# browser --url=""14:51
geaaruNokia-N800-26:~# browser -url=""14:51
timelessthe cross reference isn't up because i didn't sync the full repo14:51
geaarudoesn't work :(14:52
timelessyou're running as root?14:52
timelessdoes this make sense?14:52
guardian_i'm coding a gtk widget, at some point i would like to display a button inside it. however my widget is not a container, how can i do then ?14:52
* timeless thinks guardian_ wants #gtk*14:53
timelessgeearu: w/o browser running14:54
timeless/usr/bin/browser "works"14:55
timelessit also works if the browser is unning14:55
guardian_what do you mean timeless ?14:55
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geaaru:) thank you. works but only if i insert absolute path14:56
timelessguardian: well, i think you'd have better luck asking in a gtk only channel14:56
geaaruwith relative path doesn't work... but this isn't a problem. ty14:56
* timeless didn't say it'd work in any other flavor14:56 down again :(14:57
timelessyou only asked for the arg  :)14:57
* timeless has no idea *why* it doesn't work the other way, but..14:57
timelessi think that the problem is /usr/bin/maemo-launcher14:57
timelessor whatever it's called, uses the app name, which is 'browser' or '/usr/bin/browser' to decide what to look for14:58
* timeless goes to read launcher.c14:58
timelessnote that 'browser' alone does nothing useful for me14:58
timelessif i can figure out how to fix that in maemo-launcher/launcher/launcher.c, i'll file a bug+patch14:59
* timeless always thought it was stupid watching people write /usr/bin/browser all the time14:59
pupnikup again :)15:01
geaarubut maemo-launcher/launcher/launcher.c is on repository?15:02
jaittimeless, how about fixing microb-eal so that it doesn't require an internet connection for accessing localhost?15:02
timelessjait: um15:03
timelessdoes opera work w/o one?15:03
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pupnikgarage still down15:03
jaiti don't know, why should you care?15:03
timelesspupnik: use
timelessjait: oddly, "yes"15:03
Toma-Is there a java RE for maemo/gregale?15:04
timelessmost likely the reason we require a connection is because of connectivity daemon15:04
timelessor our misunderstanding of how to use that demon15:04
jaityes but you request it explicitly15:04
* timeless doesn't like it15:04
jaitso you can choose when to request it and when not to15:04
timelessjait: is that server up?15:05
* timeless can't hit it15:05
jaitwhat server?15:05
timelesstheone that has the msg'd number15:05
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* timeless can't use /msg15:06
timelessok, it's just amazingly slow15:06
jaitit's up, sloow15:06
* timeless coughs15:06
timelessno, sorry15:06
timelesshttp://127.1 is a perfectly valid local address15:06
timelessany patch that doesn't allow that is wrong :)15:06
jaitok, so you know how to make it better =)15:07
* timeless coughs15:07
timelessit's so not browser's job to understand routing15:07
timelessbtw, localhost.localdomain, {localips}, 7f::1 (?) and a number of other things are all "local"15:08
jaityes, i know15:08
timelessand arguably "localhost" is only  _IF_ /etc/hosts or something else says so15:08
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timelessos/2 was funny about that iirc15:08
jaitbut the proper (tm) way would mean reworking the whole connectivity system which i don't see happening15:08
timelesscan we just delete connectivity?15:08
timelessit'd make our code a lot cleaner15:09
timelessit's ok if we delete certman first15:09
timelessis there a bug complaining that connectivity can't do what we need?15:10
jaitwhat do you mean?15:10
timelessif i want to reach an ip address, am i not able to ask connectivity "can you please make sure i can reach this ip {}"?15:10
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* timeless instantly regrets asking an English question instead of a question with clear explicit answer choices15:12
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jaitthe way i see it, connectivity should have some kind of filtering rule that traps packets that would need to be sent outside and use that as a trigger for opening connections15:13
timelessi think the problem is that it's fundamentally flawed15:14
timelessthe goal is for each app to be able to explain15:14
timeless"yes, i'm doing this because the 'user' told me to"15:14
timelessbut, what if the user told cron to schedule an rsync at 5.13am?15:14
timelessthe user didn't tell cron to do an rsync now @5.13am15:15
jaitwell yes, it's difficult to make that distinction15:15
timelessnow, let's ignore the browser15:15
timelesserr, ...15:15
timelessthe browser is more complciated15:15
timelessthe browser is more complicated15:15
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timelesssuppose i log into
timelessi've only logged in once15:16
timelessnow, i walk away for an hour15:16
timelesswhat's the expectation?15:16
jaitthe connection is kept alive?15:17
timelessthe browser one hour from now is asked by the web page to connect to
timelesswhat does the browser say to connectivity when it wants to think about this connection?15:18
timelessdid the user ask for it?15:18
timelessuse a second device and try w/
jaiti see your point15:19
timelesswhat's the expectation?15:19
timelessyou guys have made rule sets that just plain don't work for web browsers15:19
timelessif you want another one,  i have it15:20
jaitdon't blame me!15:20
timelessjait: if you express any interest then you are either part of the problem (supporting status quo, wasting time), or part of the solution15:20
timelessjait: (not too seriously of course)15:21
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jaitso do you see every variation of that patch to be too much of a kludge?15:22
timelessfrom an engineering perspective, basically15:22
jaitmaking the list of addresses dynamic (gconf, file, conf option)...15:22
timelesscode like that has no business belonging to our module15:22
timelessi don't mind calling a function is_this_local()15:22
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timelesshowever, if you're going to write it, stick it where it belongs i.e. in icd15:23
timelessfrom a practical perspective, it's probably possible to steamroll me into accepting it15:23
timelessbut really, i don't like hacks15:23
timelessi do lots of them, but microb is almost entirely hacks15:23
timelessand i'd rather force other people to fix their libraries instead of adding more layers of hacks15:24
zakxjait: try browsing to "about:config"15:24
timelesseach hack we add means the other libraries are more willing15:24
zakxmaybe there's some option enabling that behaviour15:24
timelesszakx: not really relevant15:24
timelessbelievev me15:24
timelessespecially given that about:Config is my fault15:24
timelessjait knows way too much of this stuff15:24
timelessjait: i presume you've read http://swift/osso10/ident15:25
* timeless can't find any public api to use as a qualifier15:25
timeless1471737 files to consider15:25
* timeless wonders how well this rsync will fare15:25
jaitwhat's there to read?15:26
* timeless ponders15:26
timelesssorry, i lost my train of thought15:26
timelessbtw, what is
timelessuniverisity access?15:27
jaityep, univ. of oulu15:27
zakxtimeless: what about then?15:28
timelesszakx: the story is like this15:28
timelessthere's this group which is turf hungry15:28
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timelessthey own this turf called internet connection daemon15:28
timelessor maybe it's internete connectivity daemon15:28
timelessor something else15:28
timelessit haunts my the 3 letter word ICD15:29
timelessthey demand not to be ignored15:29
timelessthey demand that you always use them15:29
zakxso one should blame them for allowing localhost connections without wifi access?15:29
zakxerr, not allowing15:29
zakxi guess that's some unreachable nokia team again?15:30
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timelessi'm browser, and i'm reachable today15:30
timelessi have on idea who else is reachable15:30
jaiti reckon that you'd be happier to see the crap in icd although it would be the same crap?15:30
timelessi wouldn't have to see it :)15:30
AD-N770hi ppl, I decided upgrade my laptop today, I upgraded to ubuntu feisty, I wanted to remove sbox/maemo before and reinstall it, now I've finieshed to install maemo 3.1 using sh script15:30
timelessnimby, no crap in my back yard15:30
AD-N770when I execute apt-get update on the targets I'm getting errors15:30
AD-N770is something wrong on the repositories ?15:30
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zakxtimeless: so, by the way, thanks for the great work.15:31
timelessjait: especially in this case, it's the difference between crap in one place15:31
timelessand shared crap15:31
AD-N770I'm reciving messages like "Failed to fetch  Temporary failure resolving ''"15:31
timelessthree browsers shouldn't have to write the same crap15:31
zakxAD-N770: edit /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf15:32
rshorttAD-N770: I'm seeing flakyness on as well15:32
timelessif i install a firefox derivative that's hacked to use icd, i shouldn't be forced to hack that firefox to understand what localhost is15:32
jaiti get your point15:32
timelessand then if someone fixes the crap to be less crappy15:32
zakxchange the "hosts:" line to "hosts: file dns"15:32
_Monkeyzakx: that doesn't look right15:32
Toma-Err mistral/non-free osso-sounds-ui 1.2-4sdk1  404 Not Found [IP: 80]15:32
timelesseach browser isn't forced to update its copy15:32
_Monkeyzakx: what?15:33
* timeless sighs15:33
Toma-What weird is the indexing on works fine, but trying to get the package just 404's15:34
timelessjait: i'll trade you crap15:34
timelesssuppose someone came to me and said "your web browser lets me try to create a new folder on a removal device when there's no volume in the device"15:34
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timelesswhy the heck should i care?15:34
timelessit's shared removable crap15:34
timelessand yet see 6435315:34
timelesswhich is filed as a browser bug15:34
timelessit's a bug in filesystem15:35
timelessall anyone has to do to verify it's not my fault is test in notes15:35
* timeless sighs and goes to find a way to test it15:35
jaitfunny screenshot15:37
pupnika potato makes a good n770 stand for when the charger cable is plugged-in15:37
Jaffatimeless: presumably that's yet another internal bug which has been raised internally rather than in Bugzilla for no good reason?15:38
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MikhoToma-, mistral repositories are broken15:38
Mikhouse gregale15:38
AD-N770zakx, wget is working, but apt-get reprts the same  error messages15:38
Jaffa(My own 2c is that ICD is effectively a dial-on-demand dialler and should act on a route/unavailability approach rather than "do I have a connection up?". That might make it easier to support multiple connections, e.g. VPN connection over an IP connection etc.)15:39
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Toma-Mikho: yeh i just figured that out. thanks15:39
inzMikho, it's maemo2.0 that is broken, mistral works for me at least15:40
timelessjaffa: it's internal, yes15:40
AD-N770from my point of view bora is broken :)15:40
roopejaffa: the default is the internal, really.15:40
timelessand the  reason it's internal is because it talks about secret stuff15:40
timelessthe bug is shitty15:40
timelessit doesn't belong external15:40
timelessif it was external i'd flame the reporter two ways to the moon and probably mars15:40
timelessi mean, it really isn't that hard to test dialogs in notes too15:41
geaarutimeless: still thanks for your help... still one questions, i see from main.c that there isn't a param for  set fullscreen from command line15:41
timelessif a bug happens in notes and your favorite app15:41
geaaruis there a solution for this?15:41
timelessthen it can't be a bug in your favorite app15:41
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timelessgearru: i'd have to search, i'm busy flaming a bug reporter15:41
Toma-so theres no Java RE for the 770?15:41
Toma-i really hate having to use python15:41
JaffaLots of bugs are shitty (internal *and* external), but if the default is internal for Nokia staff, there's never going to be a large contribution to the source of Nokia-led apps by external people: if developers can't see bugs, they can't fix them. A few simple internal bugs could result in some simple patches => more open collaboration.15:41
geaaruk :) ty good work!15:42
JaffaToma-: there are, in various states of development. Nothing end-user ready, nothing with much (if any) GUI support or Hildon integration.15:42
timelessjaffa: we have as you can see 60,000 shitty bugs15:42
timelessof which you couldn't learn anything15:42
Toma-ahh bummer.15:42
timelessyou certainly wouldn't learn how to file good bugs15:42
Toma-looks like ill have to port something :~<15:42
Jaffatimeless: is that just a Maemo bug tracker?!15:42
timelessjait: safe joruney15:42
timelessjaffa; yes15:43
roopejaffa: It's part of the larger problem/issue. Bugs are mostly for unreleased (read currently-secret) features.15:43
Jaffatimeless: FFS!15:43
timelessjaffa: note that in this case it's trivial to file a public equivalent of the bug15:43
roopetimeless: no exact number of osso activities. please. ;)15:43
timelessyou just have to use official released pieces and only update the relevant component15:43
Toma-And there are no drum machine apps out there for the 770?15:43
timelessroope: public have alias fields w/ internal numbers15:44
timelessalthough, to be fair, it might be unreasonable for me to say there are 60,000 shitty bugs15:44
pupnikToma-: that is my favorite fringe software request of the month :)15:44
Toma-pupnik: :D15:44
Jaffaroope: and there's the rub: Nokia are still holding it too close to their chests. The only thing which should be "secret" or unannounced about features should be hardware. Nokia can't complain about lack of patches submitted, external help or benefit from open source properly if the software stack is viewed as proprietary.15:44
timelessmaybe only 32,000 or 64,000 :)15:44
Toma-I just wanna jam along to my lil 77015:44
X-Fadetimeless: has a dead link to
timelessjaffa: you can clearly guess what the secret is :)15:44
Toma-pytrommler runs like a 3 legged horse15:45
timelessbut we can't say that, hence we say "secret"15:45
roopejaffa: kind of true. But it's not as simple as take. Take something like Skype for instance. There were skype related bugs in our internal bugzilla before it was even announced.15:45
timelessbut back to my point15:45
roopeYou can't really say "only hardware". It's the whole product, really.15:45
timelessif you actually tested only modules of software on public hardware15:45
timelessyou'd clearly know in this case that the bug was in the filesystemui15:45
timelessbecause upgrading just browser wouldn't give you the bug15:45
timelessbut upgrading filesystemui would give you the bug everywhere15:46
roopeAnyway, there are efforts ongoing to open this development process more.15:46
timelessroope: that's news to me15:46
timelessalways nice to here about internal changes externally :)15:46
Jaffaroope: So you have a beta-Skype component which is locked down to the beta testers.15:46
timelessjaffa: it's hard15:46
timelesswe don't trust our contractors15:46
* Jaffa thought bugzilla could do that trivially?15:46
timelessheck, we barely trust our engineers15:46
celestehToma- , Awesome request, but I don't know of anything15:46
timelessimagine someone accidentally thinks they're in a locked component15:46
JaffaAnd you *certainly* don't trust users/OSS developers ;-)15:46
timelessor thinks a bug has no buzzwords15:47
roopeBugs have links. Skype has links to connectivity, framework, power management etc. You can't really control ... hide those bugs from them.15:47
celestehIs PD ported to maemo? that can be used to make drumloops15:47
timelessand it turns out that they mention a buzzword in a public component15:47
Toma-celesteh: im having a look around for something suitable now15:47
roopeie. if you're a power management developer but not a skype tester, you still need to see that bug.15:47
Toma-celesteh: PD?15:47
Jaffaroope: OK, let's take this back to base priniciples. Why do Skype-related bugs have to be hidden before Skype's release?15:47
timelessanyway, it's certainly possible to have private products or bugs15:47
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timelesswe actually did that internally for the browser product for a bit15:47
roopejaffa: Because Nokia wants to control when and howthey publicize features.15:47
celestehToma-: PD stands for Pure Data.  It's um.. a hard to explain music tool . . .15:48
Jaffaroope: And that's my point. Whilst they/you want that control, you'll have to do the majority of work on the platform yourself.15:48
roopeBy controlling when and how, a company, like any company, believes it can gain more from those features.15:48
timelessbut for reference, we also had some people trying to do secret keeping/sharing w/ a partner company15:48
timelessand after reviewing it, we determined they failed to keep the secrets15:48
Mikhoinz, isn't mistral the same as 2.0? At least it seems to use 2.0 repos when app manager is set to use mistral15:48
timelessit wasn't a big deal, no one cared, no harm was done15:48
roopejaffa: that's true, and that's the drawback.15:48
NeoStriderMikho, yes15:48
Toma-celesteh: might be simple enough to tear pytrommler to shreds, but it doesnt work very well15:49
timelessbut w/ a public system instead of a corporate tie, the secret would have been noticed sooner15:49
timeless(the secret being that we were working on mozilla)15:49
NeoStriderthey are compatible15:49
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timelessjaffa: note: nokia doesn't seem to mind doing work by itself15:49
timelessthat's one of the things open source poeple miss15:49
timelesscompanies are willing to pay more for less15:49
roopeContinuing thish example, now that the feature is public, bugs related to it could certainly be opened.15:49
inzMikho, they should be, but give 404, but if you replace maemo2.0 with mistral, they work15:49
timelessand they're willing to pay more for control of shitty code15:49
Jaffatimeless: well, except when it won't do the work people want (e.g. customisable 12/24 hour clock, a sensible RSS update policy etc.)15:50
timelessjaffa: anyway...15:50
Jaffatimeless: but it's a good point15:50
roopejaffa: Don't get me started on the 12/24 hour clock. ;)15:50
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timelessroope: heh15:50
timelessfwiw, i have opinions on clock and rss reader too15:50
timelessand both  of us clearly could get started15:50
roopeI fought for that feature back in 2004, but there's some linux reason behind it.15:51
timelesslet's not get too offtopic15:51
timelessroope: is that one of those silly platform consistency things15:51
timelessthat we can't get righ t in say Skype? :)15:51
timeless(yes, i filed bugs about that)15:51
Jaffaroope: there's a justification for why it is, but it makes no sense when no other Linux system does it the same way as IT OS ;-)15:51
timelessanyway, the problem is, we have as you can guess say 60,000 bad bugs15:51
timelessassume that there are say 1000 browser bugs15:52
timelessand take my word that however many there are, almost all of them are shitty15:52
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timelessand that unfortunately almost all of them have at least one bad word in them15:52
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timelesswhat's the point in me spending ours publishing 1000 bad bugs with one word sanitized?15:52
timelessanyway, the problem is, we have as you can guess say 60,000 bad bugs15:53
timelessassume that there are say 1000 browser bugs15:53
timelessand take my word that however many there are, almost all of them are shitty15:53
timelessnote; i'm not going to bother looking to see how many browser bugs we have15:53
Toma-celesteh: looks scary15:53
timelessthe number is meaningless because most of them are duplicates or don't belong in browser15:53
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timelessa better approach is to file *good* bugs in the public database15:54
JaffaYou shouldn't have to, my point is two fold: 1) Internal people should know what to say/not say when raising bugs externally (but if they can't raise non-shitty bugs, this is unlikely); 2) the development process should be more open and, despite the talk, Nokia seem to have no desire to do so (i.e. they view commercial advantage in keeping, say, a Mozilla browser underwraps until release)15:54
timelessand encourage people to file good bugs in the public database15:54
celestehToma-: it is scary, but you can do many many things with it15:54
timelessas the public database grows to have the better set of bugs15:54
Toma-celesteh: id rather something real simple :S15:54
timelessengineers will spend more time there15:54
Jaffatimeless: external community can not just help with code though, they can help with bug classification/de-duplication etc. (see gnome)15:54
timelessand managers will be forced to encourage its use15:54
roopetimeless: I think that browser has a ... or that other components do not have such a high percentage of shitty bugs as the browser.15:54
timelessjaffa: i'm a dev/qa/whatever15:54
roopeFor smaller components, most of the bugs are actually pretty valid and reasonable.15:55
timelessroope: maybe15:55
roopeBut I agree on the browser bugs. :)15:55
timelessi can only speak for browser15:55
timelessi can say that when i file bugs elsewhere, they tend to have a chance of getting duplicates15:55
roopeYes, I've been browsing Browser bugs also. They're pretty... Silly mostly.15:55
timelessbecause the core problem is usually not usefully apparent15:55
JaffaThere will be prioritisation done on bugs, there are probably tons of small tiny bugs in Hildon or whatever internally which someone wanting to get stuck into Maemo/Hildon could fix easily - and as a way into the dev community.15:55
timelessroope: i really never used the word shitty before i came to work here15:56
roopejaffa: It's ... Yes. I mean it requires a lot of work for the whole process, just opening bugzilla as such isn't enough.15:56
timelessin fact, i don't think i've described bugs w/ that word before today15:56
timelessroope; anyway15:56
timelessa good first step is encouraging people to do testing on released hardware+software15:56
Jaffaroope: I disagree. The work is a mental shift by management/non-OSS based developers within Nokia. Not really one of process.15:57
Jaffatimeless: exactly.15:57
timelessbgus like the one i just moved really should be found w/ public pieces15:57
timelessinstead of insisting on using as many private pieces as possible15:57
* timeless wonders if notes is open15:57
timelessif it isn't, i should use something else as my example15:57
roopejaffa: Well, it requires things like changing control... Assigning bugs. Some kind of reliability that this bug will be fix in a certain timeframe.15:57
Jaffaroope: the external bug tracker can do that. People in their spare time only work on bugs which aren't assigned to anyone.15:58
roopeMaking sure that the fixes are good, that they don't break anything else, that the fixer is committed to fixing the bugs caused by his fixes etc.15:58
roopeWhich really somethings requires visibility to the whole device and all the components.15:58
timelessroope: of course...15:58
timelesswe don't actually have any of that15:58
JaffaYou do code reviews already, I assume. Automated testing does (b) - or general integration/release testing; and the original fixer doesn't have to fix further bugs: they just get raised.15:58
timelesssee fun browser libraries break released software bugs.maemo 172015:59
* Jaffa isn't advocating you just release off the trunk at some random point in time with no testing or QA ;-)15:59
timelessjaffa: we have a huge infrastructure15:59
roopejaffa: Yes anyway, but as I was saying, it requires a lot more changes than just opening the bugzilla.15:59
timelessbut oddly it doesn't really cover anywhere near the right spots15:59
roopeIt requires changes to management, QA, testing, scheduling, resourcing, legal etc.15:59
timelesswe need to evolve a lot of other changes first15:59
timelessthe best you can do today is get good/better bugs in the public bugzilla16:00
timelessnote that i'll help16:00
roopeI think that's the way forward, but it will take some time and effort.16:00
timelessmost likely you'll see me file my bugs there16:00
NeoStrideris garage svn down?16:00
timelesshopefully roope and others will too16:00
Jaffaroope: I think you're overestimating the amount of work it'd take if the organisation was committed to it.16:00
timelessnote that really only some of us internals can actually choose to file externally16:00
roopejaffa: I haven't given any estimate yet. :)16:00
JaffaIt shouldn't change QA, testing, scheduling or resourcing in *any* way.16:00
timelessjaffa: testing involves testing on secrets16:01
roopejaffa: As an internal I've seen enough of what things take time than I'm certainly not overestimating.16:01
timelessreporting would involve not mentioning secrets16:01
roopeYou're underestimating. ;)16:01
timelessthe structure would have to be changed to be more intelligent16:01
timelessmostly testing on secrets, verifying on publics, and reporting public bugs16:01
Jaffatimeless: and my point still stands, only hardware *should* be secret.16:01
timelesswithout secrets16:01
timelessjaffa: problem is, all bug reports include the tested hardware16:01
roopejaffa: With a policy like that there would be no Skype on the device.16:01
timelessand unshipped hardware is buggy16:02
Jaffaroope: why not? Skype was announced with the N800 launch.16:02
timelessand sometimes software for unshipped hardware is buggy16:02
* timeless wonders when skype work started16:02
timelessbefore the launch?16:02
roopejaffa: Do you think that's when the development for it started?16:02
timeless(that's entirely speculation)16:02
roopeYes, well, actually, I'm also just speculating. ;)16:02
timelesswoohoo, we can all speculate together :)16:02
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roopeLet's just say that it would be a pretty bad idea to start developing something the same day it is publicized.16:03
timelessheh, who would have thought :)16:03
roopeOf course there have been exceptions, but. ;)16:03
* Jaffa shrugs. There's a lot of talk about being more open about Maemo, but it's over two years now and *still* the default for browser bugs is internal. The Mozilla work was secret until binaries were available... it seems like Nokia still doesn't "get" it. (whatever "it" is ;-))16:04
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* Jaffa 's experience is that things are developed the week before launch - well *after* announcing ;-))16:04
roopeI don't think it's all black and white. The correct answer is a murky gray somewhere in the middle.16:04
JaffaOf course.16:04
roopeWhere everybody complains somewhat but people try to be happy with it.16:04
timelessjaffa: i'd argue that changed16:05
timelessby default, good browser bugs will be filed in the opne16:05
timelessyou can see that as i file bugs16:05
timelessby default, bugs no one wants to read will be filed internally16:05
timelessthe one in question is just a general example16:06
roopeNokia is a huge company, it's ... From the outside it's of course very hard to see all the forces in play, but it's... There are a lot of good efforts, and more than a few years ago. I think the direction is good, the speed could of course be faster.16:06
roopeI've been here since early 2004, so I mean. I think there's still good stuff coming up. :)16:06
* Jaffa used to work for IBM: the disparity of the internals and externals of a big multinational company are still amazing to me now (but completely understandable)16:07
* timeless is newer than roope and probably less tolerant16:07
timelessbut, anyway, now that i'm open i can help a bit more16:07
Toma-Would the 770 have enough grunt to run something like audacity or another wav file editor?16:08
timelessbut i'll also be able to complain a bit mor16:08
timelesstoma: does that require real time work16:08
Toma-timeless: not at all16:08
timelessor can it do things at slower than realtime?16:08
timelessshould be fine16:08
timeless770 has a cpu >200,mhz16:08
timelessi did audio work on 33mhz pcs16:08
timelesssimple logic, :)16:08
timelesstry to make sure the code isn't too inefficient of course16:09
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timelesscode seems to be getting worse over time16:09
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Toma-im not a coder :(16:09
timelessmaybe find some app from then  instead of a new and improved modern app :)16:09
* timeless shrugs16:09
Toma-going to try compiling a curses based drum machine16:10
Toma-that should help16:10
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pupnikToma- gneutronica-0.33 looks small and gtk-based16:11
Toma-pupnik: i have my doubts about its size on the screen16:11
Toma-pupnik: im looking at 'groovit'16:12
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Toma-want would be neat, is a little record spinning app16:15
Toma-pointless, but very much like the DS :D16:16
NeoStridertimeless , you would be surprised with what can be done with the 770 ;-)16:18
pupnikNeoStrider: the smw debs are fixed16:18
NeoStriderI want it!!!!16:19
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pupnik"Super Mario War"?16:23
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_Monkeyorly is, like, Ya rly16:28
AD-N770for those that have problems with apt-get and feisty:
AD-N770like me16:28
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AD-N770inside sbox16:33
Toma-ahh i c16:33
NeoStrider_Monkey should be familiar to maemo ;-P16:35
_MonkeyNeoStrider: i'm not following you...16:35
NeoStrider_Monkey should be familiar to mono ;-P16:35
_MonkeyNeoStrider: excuse me?16:35
pupnikthere's an older gtk trommler that might work Toma-16:37
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pupnikeven looks simple enough for a decent hildon port16:38
timelesshrm, qa here is finding helpful bugs16:38
timelessbugs that public testers could have foudn had they been creative enoug16:38
NeoStriderfor those tired of the old screenshots:
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trevarthanaccount on16:43
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tweghi, how do i prevent the name of the executable appearing in the title bar of my app window? (pygtk)16:49
twegi.e. it shows 'exaile - Exaile music player' and I want to drop the 'exaile - ' part, which gets inserted automatically16:50
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NeoStridertweg...why dont you change the executable name to "Exaile" and drop the "Exaile " from the "Exaile music player"16:52
twegbecause it adds a dash16:52
NeoStrider"Exaile - music player"16:52
NeoStrideryou can say that you forked Exaile and created "Exaile -"16:53
twegI guess I could do that, but it feels like a hack16:53
NeoStriderjunky solutions to junky problems =-P16:53
twegI would have thought window.set_title should set the title to the string  I give it and nothing more16:53
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NeoStriderI saw somebody comment that was you16:54
twegyes, I hate these junky problems, but they are the little things that give ppl a perception of ugliness16:54
NeoStriderI see...why dont you try the .desktop file?16:55
NeoStriderin SDL, we set a WM_CLASS or something like that, to set the application name16:56
NeoStriderlook for that , too16:56
NeoStriderits a enviroment var16:56
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twegI've set StartupWMClass=exaile in the desktop file, didn't help as far as the title bar is concerned16:59
NeoStriderfrom my code:16:59
NeoStrider  putenv("SDL_VIDEO_X11_WMCLASS=angstron");16:59
NeoStriderchenca , are you from INDT?17:00
pupnikthanks NeoStrider - i needed that putenv17:00
NeoStridereverybody takes that line from somebody else ;-)17:00
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NeoStrideri saw you on a canola video, from handful =-)17:01
pupniki now have a smw.desktop.  i think i need to register with osso to make sure smw does not close after launching from menu17:01
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NeoStrideractually, pupnik, I didnt had any problem with that17:01
NeoStriderdo you want me to show you the angstron .desktop file?17:02
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pupniki have a .desktop from maemowizard that i used - yes message me the angstron .desktop17:02
chencaNeoStrider: hehehe My ugly face at 5am...17:02
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NeoStridertodo mundo parecia contente =-)17:03
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NeoStrideractually, is the same from maemowizard ;-)17:04
chencaNeoStrider: Happy == Tired17:05
pupniknow i think i have to tell debhelper to include the .desktop and icon in the package17:05
NeoStriderpupnik, the autotools do that for you17:05
NeoStriderat least , for me, they do17:05
NeoStriderchenca, I hope someday I will be happy with you guys17:06
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MoRpHeUzNeoStrider: where are you from ?17:07
NeoStriderand you?17:07
MoRpHeUzNeoStrider: handful's friend ? =)17:07
NeoStridermessenger pal17:08
NeoStridernever really met him17:08
MoRpHeUzNeoStrider: yeah, now I think I know who  you are =)17:08
MoRpHeUzNeoStrider: you work at listel now, right ?17:09
NeoStriderno no17:09
NeoStriderDiário Oficial do Estado do Rio de Janeiro17:09
MoRpHeUzhhmm! ok! =)17:09
NeoStriderI hope to work with mobile multimedia someday17:09
NeoStriderif you were from CodeBlood, you may know me17:10
kami770hello guys17:10
MoRpHeUzNeoStrider: great! =)17:10
kami770I have a 770, by any chance do   you know if I can use 2 btooth devices with n800, say the cell phone and a keyboard?17:11
NeoStriderkami770, I have tried17:12
NeoStriderI can only pair with a phone at time17:12
NeoStriderat least with vanilla gregalle17:12
kami770no reason to get it then17:12
NeoStriderbut maybe you can hack it someway17:12
kami770I am using the OS2007 on this17:13
Toma-pretty sure bluetooth devices dont 'serve'17:13 using it200617:13
kami770because I am having issues to DUN with 0S200617:13
NeoStriderwhat do you want to use?17:13
pupnikToma-: did you compile the curses drum machine?17:13
NeoStrideryeah...I cant DUN either17:13
NeoStriderdum machine?!17:13
kami770DUN and btooth keyboard at the same time17:13
NeoStriderI was looking for the xdrum sources17:13
NeoStriderbut couldnt find it anywhere17:14
Toma-pupnik: funny thing about apps that havent been touched since 2003...17:14
Toma-the configure file is borked17:14
Toma-going to give seq24 and qnetronica a try17:15
kami770well I have a multipoint btooth headset so I figure you could pair to two devices at the same time17:15
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twegNeoStrider, I think I am going to give up and go with your hack. Too much pain trying to polish this turd.17:16
NeoStriderkami770, they count as two devices?17:16
NeoStridertweg...sometimes , its better to give up for a battle to conquer a war17:16
kami770NeoStrider, the two cell phones when used with the headset, yeah17:16
NeoStridersometime later you will stumble upon this17:16
twegwell said :-)17:16
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NeoStriderjust as I did yesterday with my 3D rendering system17:16
kami770NeoStrider, google for plantronics voyager 51017:17
NeoStriderkami770, now I got want a headset and a phone at the same time17:17
NeoStriderwell..dont know about that17:17
NeoStriderI only tried two phones17:17
kami770a keyboard and a phone17:17
NeoStriderindeed im pairing one of them right now17:18
kami770so I can connect to the net thru the cell phone17:18
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kami770and I can type on the keyboard17:18
pupniksomebody hacked a usb UMTS modem driver for the 77017:18
kami770hardware keyboard17:18
NeoStriderkami770, and a usb keyboard?17:18
pupnikyes that would be very useful17:18
kami770btooth keyboard17:18
NeoStrideryeah...but...why dont you investigate that too?17:19
NeoStrideri just dont know much about it17:19
NeoStriderim more a game developer17:19
NeoStriderim still discovering linux hacking17:19
kami770just asking I got this yesterday17:19
kami770I have no idea if I am going to stick with OS2006 or 717:20
pupniki think multiboot is the way to go17:20
NeoStriderif I were you, I would stick with 200617:20
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pupnikreinstalling everything after a re-flash is a PAIN17:20
NeoStrider2007 is good , but its not a end user thing17:20
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kami770NeoStrider, any particular reason? other than the end user part17:21
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kami7702006 won't recognize my phones17:21
NeoStridersome opera issues, some librarie version clashing17:21
kami770for what I tested last night17:21
NeoStriderbut're are the quite happy with 200617:21
JaffaBah, I want the new Canola eye candy.17:22
NeoStriderim not much a user...i use the 770 just for debugging my games17:22
kami770I think I will have to buy a cable I never thought I would need17:23
kami770miniUSB to miniUSB17:23
* pupnik wants automake 1.8.x17:23
Toma-what toolchain should i use for gregale?17:23
NeoStriderToma- , "gregale SDK"?17:24
NeoStriderMaemo 2.217:24
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NeoStriderbut hey...I did some good stuff with mistral SDK too17:24
NeoStriderlet me check17:24
kami770be back later17:24
kami770gotta sleep a it more17:25
NeoStriderok, kami77017:25
kami770NeoStrider, thanks :)17:25
NeoStriderur welcome17:25
Toma-ah i see it. thanks17:25
NeoStriderwe work for you, the user17:25
Toma-ahhh 20 min download! bah17:26
Toma-full metal alchemist time.17:26
NeoStridertake it,alphonso!17:26
NeoStrider=-P my brother in law is fanatic with that stuff17:27
Toma-it super.17:27
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* pupnik looks at Neo's template_0.9917:27
celesteh_rulesarg!!!!  i just accidentally deleted a whole folder on my sd card when i meant to just delete one file!!!!  is there a way to undo this?!??17:27
NeoStriderpupnik, dont look so hard...will make me ashamed of17:27
JaffaNot really17:27
* celesteh_rules swears profusely17:28
celesteh_rulesi just lost ALL my photos from this card!!17:28
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pupnikit's awesome NeoStrider  - it asks where to put the application in menu17:29
Jaffacelesteh_rules: remove the card and use one of the file recovery pieces of software - for photos (i.e. JPEGs) they work quite well17:29
NeoStriderpupnik, if you a way to use SDL_mixer and maemo-games-startup , a patch will be apreciated17:29
Toma-This configure script is a nightmare17:29
pupnikwhat is maemo-games-startup for?17:29
NeoStriderKlaus Rotter is the real wonder...I just made it available to the masses =-p17:29
celesteh_rulesJaffa, can you reccomend a piece of (free) software?  for osx or maemo?17:29
NeoStriderto provide a neat startup screen17:29
NeoStriderjust like marble, Doom and other INDT games17:29
Jaffacelesteh_rules: none for Maemo, AFAIK. Looking for the ones I know about now...17:30
celesteh_rulesJaffa, I really appreciate your help here17:30
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pupnikNeoStrider: aha!  so the games-startup helps manage the sdl games?  like when pausing and task-switching?17:32
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pupnikmaybe i should use it for everything then17:32
NeoStriderif you press home key when playing angstron, for example17:32
pupnikok yes that is very useful17:32
NeoStriderit *MAY* allow you to go back to the game17:32
NeoStriderbut its not garanteed17:32
NeoStridermostly you lose that gaming session17:33
NeoStriderbut the maemo-af-desktop is not hurt17:33
NeoStridermaemo-games-startup provide a way to comunicate better with the rest of the system17:33
celesteh_rulesJaffa, thanks very much!  Should I run this while using the n800 as a card reader or with the card in the camera (a lumix)17:33
NeoStriderand has a hildonized interface to configure multiplayer games and stuff like that17:33
pupnikso much to learn... so little brain17:34
NeoStriderfor SMW it would be  the best17:34
NeoStriderfor , the problem is not the only the little brain...but the little time too17:34
pupniki think for all sdl games.  need to see how marbles works17:34
Jaffacelesteh_rules: I don't think it matters. If you have no other card reader, I'd use the N80017:35
NeoStriderangstron is waaaay behind schedule17:35
NeoStrideri did investigated crazy parking a lot , back in 2005 , when maemo was announced to the big public...but I was a newbie at linux17:35
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pupnikyou made the crazyparking game?17:36
NeoStriderno no!17:36
NeoStriderindt people did17:36
NeoStriderjust like doom17:36
pupnikahh. btw i think nogravity can be hacked to be faster17:36
NeoStridernever was able to play it17:37
NeoStriderworks well?17:37
pupnikno, 2-3 fps when close to complex objects17:38
NeoStriderbut when away from big stuff?17:38
pupnikmaybe 10-15 fps17:38
NeoStriderthat makes me thing how much i still have to optimize stuff here17:39
NeoStridereventually , I will start doing ARM ASM17:39
pupnikyes that is not the place to start17:39
NeoStriderim doing my best on the portal rendering stuff17:40
NeoStriderand on polygon tesselation17:40
* celesteh_rules is guessing at format, but so far so good17:40
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NeoStriderbut working alone on such a big thing is not easy17:40
pupnikmy best friend made one of the first 3D accelerated PC games :)17:40
NeoStrideri guess you told me that before17:41
pupnikyes.  he wrote the whole thing himself17:41
pupnikso you can too!17:41
NeoStriderhow long did he take?17:41
pupnikabout 14 months17:41
NeoStriderfull time?17:41
pupnikyes 50-70 hours/week17:41
pupnikhe hired 5 artists and one sound guy17:42
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NeoStriderand im tired...becouse I go to college and work17:43
NeoStriderbut I love this17:43
celestehyay!  I recovered my photos!17:43
celestehhowever, the movies that I took are messed up.  Could this be from guessing the wrong format for the SD card?17:43
NeoStridernothing can stop me from doing it17:43
NeoStridercelesteh...what format you used?17:43
celestehFAT16 windows.  I never formatted the SD card17:45
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* timeless goes home for weekend17:47
twegtimeless, I enjoyed your rant :-)17:48
tweghave a good weekend17:48
timelesstweg: thanks17:48
timelessi might at some point stick these into a blog17:48
timelessi tend to convert irc conversations into blogs17:48
timelessactually, i've been assigned blogging as an official task17:49
twegyou get paid to blog?17:49
* timeless ponders17:49
timelessi get paid to work. my manager said: do blog17:49
timelessso, i suppose so?17:49
twegthat's a yes17:49
Jaffatimeless: I was thinking of doing something simlar with our earlier internal/external discussion, but spent too much time discussing instead of working :)17:50
timelessi haven't yet been paid to do it, as i haven't yet done it17:50
timelessjaffa: thankfully as someone else discovered earlier, this channel is logged17:50
timelessso i just have to find myself and reformat17:50
* timeless frowns17:51
timelessi have a maze of twisty symlinks all misdirected17:51
timelessand now i'm trying to straighten them17:51
twegwhy do so many ppl lurk given that this channel is logged?17:51
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timelessreconnecting is painful for me17:52
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timelesssince i have to fix my / char to , among other things17:52
twegfair enough17:52
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twegbut i meant lurk in the sense of *never* saying anything17:53
Toma-does apt-get work in scratchbox?17:53
Toma-or ment to?17:53
timelessunless your networking is bad17:53
timelesswhich it is by default17:53
Toma-bash: /usr/bin/apt-get: Accessing a corrupted shared library17:54
timelesscheck /etc/hosts /etc/resolve.conf17:54
Toma-ahh ok17:54
roopeWe've also got "do blog" as an official task. :)17:54
roopeWhich is nice.17:54
timelessroope: heh17:54
timelesstoma: your problem is not the one i expected17:54
timelessis this x86 or arm?17:54
timelessbut, really, i'm gone17:55
`0660tweg, this is pretty easy way to be on track with maemo17:55
Toma-well, i dont knwo :S17:55
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NeoStridermy father is on TV =-)17:55
Jaffaroope: you should do a post about the help you gave kontorri with UKMP and your thoughts on the new Canola UI video.17:56
Toma-timeless: arm17:56
Toma-ho ho... no devkits17:56
tweg`0660, wouldn't it be easier just to read the logs on the web? but whatever works i guess17:56
`0660that would require active browsing :)17:57
`0660my irc client can scroll down the page automatically as new stuff comes in :)17:57
`0660it's like magic17:57
tweggood point17:58
twegbut i wonder how many ppl are not actually in front of their puters17:58
`0660i guess you are using mirc :)17:59
* timeless finds some errors17:59
timelessone of those is clearly wrong :(~18:00
timeless68 are wrong :(~18:00
Toma-woohoo scratchbox is working :)18:01
Toma-3rd time lucky18:02
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Toma- /scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/log/dpkg.log': Operation not permitted18:02
kulveToma-: what did you try to do?18:03
Toma-fix the apt18:03
Toma-eg. apt-get -f install18:03
kulveinside sb?18:04
Toma-its trying to setup dpkg18:04
kulvetry "faketroot apt-get ..."18:04
Toma-ahh thanks :D18:04
Toma-i didnt know fakeroot could do that18:04
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NeoStriderbrb, lunch18:06
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desrtdoes anyone know where you get sqlite3?18:07
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||cwdesrt: google sqlite?18:09
desrti tried that18:09
pupnikapt-cache search sqlite18:10
pupniklibsqlite3-0 - SQLite 3 shared library18:10
pupniksqlite3 - A command line interface for SQLite 318:10
pupniklibsqlite3-dev - SQLite 3 development files18:10
desrtthe sqlite site doesn't have maemo packages and the "maemo port" page appears to have been offline for some time (i've actually found google results about people complaining about this)18:10
desrtwhat repository is that?18:10
pupniki don't know18:10
desrtapt-cache show sqlite318:10
||cwmaemo really needs less repo's18:10
desrtoh.  you're not a bot :)18:10
desrtsorry :)18:10
Toma-damn. no qt3 in the sb repos?18:11
pupnikdoesn't show the repo just the name18:11
pupnikFilename: pool/gregale/free/s/sqlite3/sqlite3_3.3.5-0.2osso1_armel.deb18:11
pupnikoh apt-cache policy18:11
pupnik gregale/free Packages18:11
desrthow perplexing18:11
desrtgregale, eh?18:11
pupnikalso appears to be in mistral18:12
desrtmistral is oldschool 770, right?18:12
pupnikyeah - but it's the default repo when you flash the latest image - afaict18:13
desrtarrggh..  maemo mapper wants a package called "sqlite3-0", not "sqlite3"18:13
pupnikwrite the maemo mapper maintainer18:14
pupnikporters need feedback!18:14
pupniki think he could specify sqlite3 as an alternative requirement - not sure how18:16
JaffaOne of the problems of not having co-ordinated build packages for common libraries.18:16
pupnikwoot - got smw loading down to 5 seconds :)18:17
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Toma-This is a pain. /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set18:18
pupnikso set it18:18
Toma-0? disabled? lolcat?18:19
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Toma-i dont want any trans18:19
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pupnikok for these games with big data, i think i can do an automated install with the debian shellscripts:  1) test if mmc1 is mounted.  2) test if mmc1 has enough free space 3) test if /media/mmc1/games exists and if not create it  4) install game data under mmc1/games/gamename18:26
pupnikif no mmc1 mounted with free space, then install to /usr/share/ if enough free space18:26
inzHow did you inted to distribute the data files, inside the .deb or make the scripts download them?18:32
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twegwhat is with section 3.3 on this page:
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pupnikinz: there are debs for binary and data18:43
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inzpupnik, so you will need momentarily twice the disk space the data package takes18:46
inzpupnik, well, I guess it's not that much of a problem, and it wouldn't be too easy to avoid using download scripts either18:46
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pupnikthanks inz, i forgot about the space requirements in /tmp (or wherever the package data goes)18:50
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pupnikperhaps a download script would be better18:53
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inzpupnik, normally the cache is in /var/cache/apt/archives18:54
inzpupnik, IIRC /tmp is tmpfs on the devices, so keeping the packages there would mean that they'd eat memory18:55
pupnikoh yes i knew that :/18:56
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Hyperion|n800is there any hope for getting flash not to suck on the n800?18:56
pupnikflash sucks cpu18:57
inzflash sucks. period.18:58
Hyperion|n800well yes, but you'd figure one could get it to work a bit better....18:58
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pupnikworks fine on a 2Ghz x8619:00
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pupniknot on a pentium 2 266mhz19:01
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pupniki.e. the problem is not with the n80019:01
`0660i guess flash video is entirely different case as mplayer seems to play it just fine?19:03
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Hyperion|n800will skype be recieving an update so that it can use the n800s camera, or is it still limited by the fact that linux skype doesnt have camera support yet at all?19:10
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AD-N770do you know where I could find some source code where VFP is used ?19:27
AD-N770prefreable something in assembly that can be compiled with  the CS toolchain used in maemo19:28
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guardianhmm i made .deb packages that install just fine on my device19:33
guardiana friend of mine isntalled the last os update19:33
guardianand it doesn't install19:33
guardianand i don't know why19:33
guardianany idea ?19:33
JaffaWithout seeing the error log, no.19:34
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guardiandid not think about that19:34
guardianpackage details say incompatible application package19:34
guardianok i know why19:35
Sparrow-I'm having a problem with my mail-program in N800. I just configured my imap-account and now it's dead slow, when I try to use it19:35
guardianbecause it's not in the user section it seems19:35
Sparrow-I think mainly because I have about 3000 mails in my inbox19:35
guardianpakcage must have "Section: user/F00" to be considered compatible19:35
guardiani guess i have to rebuild the package19:36
guardianhowever, without rebuilding it, is there a way to workaround that ?19:36
pupnikyou can install with dpkg -i19:36
Sparrow-does anyone know where mail-program stores mails in the filesystem?19:36
Jaffaguardian: or have Red Pill mode installed (which is what I guess you have)19:37
guardianpupnik: i tried that but on his tablet xterm asks me the root pass , tried "rootme" but did not work19:37
guardianJaffa: yeah mine have it but not his19:37
guardianmine has it19:37
Jaffaguardian: you have to `sudo gainroot' before dpkg -i19:37
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guardiani'm discovering funny messages19:38
guardian"enable RD mode if you want to break your device"19:38
mgedminred-pill might be faster19:39
mgedminthen you could install that package from the app installer19:39
guardianhowever i'm surprised "sudo -s" then "rootme" doesn't work19:39
jjazzHas anybody ported emacs to the n800?19:39
Jaffaguardian: it's explicitly disabled. Install the "becomeroot" package, then "sudo gainroot" in a terminal, then dpkg -i19:40
kulveAD-N770: why asm? Afaik, just write code using floats and with proper gcc options, they are converted to vfp instructions instead of something else..19:40
guardianJaffa: thx19:41
guardiani'm discovering stuff it's cool :)19:41
kulveAD-N770: "write code" as in "write C code" ..19:41
AD-N770kulve: vecause i want to use the vector instead of the scalar19:43
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kulveI would guess nobody has written vfp code in asm for n800..19:44
AD-N770I think that some liboil functions could be written using vfp19:44
kulvecould be. My knowledge doesn't go that low level..19:45
AD-N770I would like to try it this weekend, and I was looking for some sample code19:45
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AD-N770if i understood correctly, the vfp that's used on the N800 can operate with sets of registers19:46
AD-N770this could be used to write some liboil functions that perform operations on vectors of single and double precision, on x86 are written using SSE19:48
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* pupnik prays for OpenGL ES 2.0 on the N900 (or whatever it will be called)19:54
kulveAD-N770: what apps/whatever you think would gain something from better optimized liboil?19:55
AD-N770kulve: some gstreamer stuff uses liboil19:57
kulvegst uses gst plugins (wrappers) which uses external codecs, which often doesn't use liboil (I don't have too much experience on those though..)19:58
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inzSparrow, the built-in mail is way broken, I'd suggest to avoid it19:59
AD-N770kulve: not all the plugins are the codecs provided by external ones19:59
Sparrow-inz: so it seems. Do you have any recommendations?20:01
Sparrow-I located the directory where it stores it's mails20:02
Sparrow-and deleted them20:02
AD-N770enough for me today, see u, enjoy the weekend20:07
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unique311so smc is failing to start because of this error, Error: screen mode creation failed   Reason: Maximum supported bitdepth is 1620:11
unique311can someone explain wtf does that mean...20:11
cesmanoffhand, I'd say you are running with a color depth greater than 16bits and the programs does like that...20:13
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roundeyemajor bummer i Laosed up my 770 real bad20:20
roundeyeso now im going to flash it20:20
roundeyewhat is the best os for the 77020:20
roundeyewith the most application support20:20
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ajtpupnik: when speaking of the *n900* when you think that'll hit the streets? year? two?20:22
ajtmaddler: afternon20:22
maddlerajt: :)20:22
maddlerajt: I'd say 1.5yr20:22
inzSparrow, claws-mail is the best I've run into20:23
ajtmaddler: sounds about right20:23
ajtmaddler: been considering the purchase of the n80020:23
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ajtfigured I'd idle in here for a while and see what neat shit it can do20:23
roundeyewhat is the os of choice for the 770?20:24
cbx33hey, do people here generally update packages when an update is available?20:24
maddlerI'd go for hacker's edition :)20:24
maddlercbx33: I do20:24
maddlerunless I don't care :)20:25
roundeyemaddler why the hacker eddtion20:25
roundeyeis there some where i can r ead about the difference20:25
cbx33wish you could update all in one go20:25
maddlerroundeye: it's basically a backport of N800 OS release20:25
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ajtfor the 770?20:26
maddlercbx33: you could try from cli, but it could have some side effects20:26
maddlerajt: right20:26
maddlerajt: some features are missing btw...20:26
roundeyemaddler: does it have support for many aplications like os 200620:26
ajtmaddler: w/ skype support?20:26
cbx33i'll do it through app thing20:26
ajtmaddler: video stuff of course20:26
maddlerajt: and also think about about *much* improved hardware of N80020:26
maddlerajt: no... no skype support (yet)20:27
ajtI like how you say *yet*20:27
maddlerajt: I basically can't exclude that an update hackers' edition will be released (sooner or later)20:27
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pupnikdoes it2007he now go into suspend when the cover is put on?20:29
pupnikman super mario war is fun... got some more tweaks done just now - getting around 40-50 fps constantly20:29
pupnikwell on the starting level at least20:30
ajtwhat other devices can maemo run on?20:33
disqhey, i'm having a bit of a problem. trying to copy over a 30gig file over to reiserfs (from win32) pscp cuts off at 3.5gigs, samba won't work, any ideas?20:35
disqerm sorry the destination fs is ext3 not reiserfs20:36
inzajt, maemo is the SDK, not an OS20:36
disq(anyway found a page about large file support, reading that)20:36
ajtinz: time to go do some reading :)20:37
maddlerpupnik: dunno... I think it does20:37
ajtso the n800 basically runs debian w/ maemo?20:37
maddlerdisq: split it and then merge?20:37
inzajt, n800 runs "Internet Tables OS 2007"20:38
ajtinz: oh20:38
disqmaddler: space problems on the win32 system20:38
unique311pupnik, the fps can be changed in options...20:38
disqmm. i'll put it up on the web and try wget20:38
unique311be aware if you do lower or raise it, sound might not work...20:39
pupnikunique311: that's a maximum fps number - on levels with lots of sprites, the 770 sometimes can't do more than 15-20 fps20:39
unique311smc, i'm getting 62 fps which is set normal.20:39
pupnikreally?   aha...20:39
disqLength: -657,391,61620:39
disqheh that's wget for you (or could be IIS)20:39
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inzdisq, I'd guess IIS ;)20:40
unique311still trying to get smc to work20:40
pupnikis there an onscreen fps counter?20:40
disqsamba said disk full after 11 gigs of transfer20:41
ajtinz: there a website on Internet Tablet OS 2007? Google isn't turning up anything aside form articles about the upgrade20:41
unique311might be...need a keyboard to use the extra options20:41
disqajt: did you check the ITT forums? should be a few reviews there20:42
pupnikunique311: do you see a slowdown with the swirl spawning?  i have to switch it to 'door' spawning because the swirls use too many transparent sprites20:42
ajtdisq: ITT forums?20:42
inzajt, internettablettalk.com20:42
_MonkeyITT is
unique311check out the video i made20:42
unique311no issues at all.20:43
trevarthanITT forums is
trevarthanITT forums?20:43
_Monkeywell, ITT forums is
_Monkeyi heard goodmonkey was a good _Monkey who gets a biscuit.20:43
inz~lart me20:44
* infobot farts in inz's general direction20:44
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disqmounted the smb share in linux and started the cp, hope it works20:51
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pupnikunique311: what buttons do you use for turbo and weapon/special?20:52
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unique311volume up and down20:54
pupnikyeah same20:54
pupniksucks though, i'd rather have buttons on the right - even maybe onscreen buttons20:54
pupnikoh playing two player is possible - one just uses bluetooth keyboard20:55
disqjust :P20:55
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unique311find an SDL expert20:56
pupnikdo you think it'd be better with onscreen buttons?20:57
trevarthanpupnik: gaming on the n800? Yeah. better with OSD buttons.20:57
unique311theirs space for buttons.20:58
pupniki've been testing UQM with the onscreen buttons for about a week and it is pretty playable20:58
trevarthanwe need like an overlay keyboard. One with only 4 buttons. And it just shows up for certain games.20:58
trevarthanI don't even know if that sort of an overlay is possible though.20:59
trevarthanI mean as a separate application.20:59
pupnikthey work in fceu and UQM20:59
trevarthanthat way we wouldn't have to hack each app.20:59
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pupnikwell imo the SDL display has to be shifted to the left to make space21:00
trevarthanunless it's transparent21:00
pupnikIt's not really difficult :)21:00
trevarthanbut yeah, if not transparent, you could probably hack some part of hildon to do that, right?21:00
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pupniki guess it's possible21:01
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trevarthanhave you guys seen that new python iphone keyboard for the n800?21:02
pupnikError Loading Music: Module format not recognized21:02
trevarthanI haven't played with it, but I read the article. I wonder if they would have any suggestions.21:02
pupnikyou seeing that ^^ error when you exit the game unique311 ?21:02
pupnikok it might be aproblem with it2006's libSDL21:03 down (or broken)?21:04
pupnikdoes music run continuously through the game?  or just when you win a level or someone gets down to 0 lives?21:04
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milhousemaemo.rog down?21:17
X-FadeSeems so..21:23
milhousenot cool :(21:24
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X-FadeHmm the box has a load of 33 ;)21:28 now redirects to itelf21:28
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milhousesomeone is obviously performing maintenance (good timing - friday afternoon - not)21:28
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milhousei would wish (and have asked) that they pre-announce maintenance21:28
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milhouseit's not hard, and is considered professional where I come from ;)21:28
milhouseit always looks so much better than a site which disappears because someone fancies a bit of a tinker21:29
|tbb|damn second time a week my sdhc-card doesnt work after copying files to it21:29
|tbb|now i cant format it because the system doesnt reconize the card anymore21:29
trevarthansdhc bug?21:30
milhousebug 1204 ( is your friend. try the app in comment #4521:30
milhouse(i've no idea if it works, but it worked for someone)21:30
trevarthanI can't remember what the _Monkey tag is for that...21:30
X-Fademilhouse: I am logged in to the box, it was overloaded somehow. It should be back to normal now..21:32
milhousex-fade: yep, looks ok now - thanks21:34
milhousefor a while i was just getting a page for which said "Click here to go to" very strange21:34
X-Fademilhouse: Yeah, had the same problem this afternoon..21:35
milhousesdhc bug is
milhousesdhc bug?21:36
_Monkeyrumour has it sdhc bug is
milhousesdhc bug is also costing end users money because it makes N800's eat expensive cards21:37
_Monkeyokay, milhouse.21:37
milhousesdhc bug?21:37
_Monkeysdhc bug is or costing end users money because it makes N800's eat expensive cards21:37
milhouseoh well not perfect but should do the trick21:37
X-Fademilhouse: You might want to add 'allegedly' there :)21:38
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milhouseforget sdhc bug21:38
_Monkeymilhouse: I forgot sdhc bug21:38
milhousesdhc bug is
trevarthanwhy? seems to be a legitimate issue.21:38
X-FadeI haven't seen reports confirming it every time with the same type of card in the same slot?21:40
X-FadeOr did I miss something?21:40
milhousesdhc bug is also sometimes turns an N800 into an expensive SD/SDHC card eating machine (which may leave you out of pocket)21:40
_Monkeyokay, milhouse.21:40
milhousesdhc bug?21:40
_Monkeysdhc bug is probably or sometimes turns an N800 into an expensive SD/SDHC card eating machine (which may leave you out of pocket)21:40
|tbb|the card doesnt reconized from the internal card slot21:40
milhouseinternal is unusual, it's usually the external slots that causes the most problems21:41
|tbb|cant testmedia from card wiper tool21:41
|tbb|before it was on the external slot21:41
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milhousetbb - so it was knackered while in the external slot?21:42
trevarthanX-Fade: I think that's Nokia's job, not ours. It seems pretty obvious that there is a major problem and that it eats cards.21:42
milhousei'm surprised nokia haven't asked anyone to post their dead card so they can see what is happening, considering they are unable to reproduce the problem21:43
trevarthanyeah, or maybe buy a big expensive SDHC card themselves and see if they can reproduce it. That's what I'd do.21:43
milhouseno, no - what am i saying. of course i'm not surprised nokia aren't discussing this problem in public.21:43
|tbb|milhouse what is knackered?21:45
milhouseyour card?21:46
|tbb|yes in the external slot21:46
milhousek, so that continues the pattern seen by most others - it's the external slot which has the most leathality21:47
milhouseinternal seems pretty much ok21:47
|tbb|need to get the card working21:47
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|tbb|but how21:47
trevarthanI think you might be out of luck.21:47
milhousei do hope it's not a design flaw, which occasionally results in the external slots squirting too much juice into the card21:48
trevarthanI don't think anyone has successfully revived one of those dead cards.21:48
trevarthanmilhouse: I think that might be it, actually.21:48
milhousehave you tried the software mentioned in the final comment of bug 1204? The Panasonic software doesn't work apparently21:48
trevarthanJust a guess on my end.21:48
milhousetrevarthan - that's where my money is too... according to PhilL there are electrical differences between the internal and external slots21:49
milhousewith luck they can bring it under control with software much as they did the dodgey touchscreen21:49
trevarthanooooo.... here's hoping the n880 has multitouch. :)21:49
trevarthan(and doesn't eat SDHC cards)21:50
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pupnikwhat is multitouch good for?21:57
pupnikthumb typing?  e.g. shift and keypress?21:57
trevarthanwell, the thumb keyboard is the most prominent, IMO.21:58
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pupniki'd hate to spend 40 euro extra just for that :)   give me multibutton!21:58
trevarthanyeah. shift, plus just typing multiple keys quickly. the current keyboard freaks out if you have more than one region pressed at a time. With multitouch, you could detect which was pressed first and not freak out.21:59
pupnikah makes sense!21:59
pupnikwhile we're at it - compiz/beryl with all windows mapped to opengl textures, for fast layering22:00
trevarthanI think the iphone uses it for finger gestures too, like pinch to zoom, but I don't really care about that. I just want a decent keyboard.22:00
pupnikand a transparent thumbkeyboard that automagically dims the background window enough to see the buttons22:00
trevarthanyeah, that's a bit harder though.22:00
milhousedoesn't maemo 4.0 add alpha channel support to the GUI?22:00
pupnikit's not realistic due to memory limitations on the 3d chip, i think22:00
milhousei'm sure some of the demos have transparency in the gui22:01
pupnikmaybe not... it's fun to blather about new features though22:01
pupnikdemos on  youtube?22:01
milhousesorry... "demos" wrong word22:01
milhousepictures and sardine mainly22:01
trevarthanBTW, I just added GST support to kagu:    It's disabled for testing currently, but the core functionality is there.22:01
milhousepupnik - look at this
pupnikcool :)22:03
trevarthanlooks like fake transparency, like KDE's form of transparency.22:04
trevarthanpre-rendered, in other words.22:04
milhousei hope not22:04
|tbb|trevarthan: is this your site?22:04
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trevarthan|tbb|: the kagu thing? Yeah. I'm the lead developer and it's hosted from my house.22:05
trevarthanplease don't hack me. :)22:05
|tbb|i have buyed a stereo bluetooth headset from motorola s922:06
trevarthanYeah, I've got an s9 too. It works with kagu.22:07
trevarthanJust follow the instructions.22:07
|tbb|have used the kagu playa for using it but the sound  not clear sometimes :(22:07
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kulveMoRpHeUz: hey, the url? ;)22:08
trevarthansorry |tbb|. I really need to put this online somewhere. You need to bump the sbcbitpool value in ~/.a2dprc from 32 to 53 and restart kagu. Then the sound won't suck.22:08
MoRpHeUzkulve: hi! how are you ?!22:09
kulveMoRpHeUz: fine, thanks :) Summer holiday almost over..22:09
MoRpHeUzkulve: =)22:09
MoRpHeUzkulve: try something like this:22:09
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MoRpHeUzkulve: http://IP:40000/
MoRpHeUzyou can use transcoder=mencoder also22:12
trevarthanMoRpHeUz: how's that coming BTW? Did you ever fix the mencoder reliability issues? I started trying to fix it, but then I got side tracked with Kagu.22:13
MoRpHeUztrevarthan: well, last time I tried everything was working...(using mpeg1)...22:16
trevarthanDid the new firmware fix any mpeg4 streaming?22:17
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kulveMoRpHeUz: thx, I'll try it22:19
MoRpHeUztrevarthan: nop =(22:19
MoRpHeUzkulve: =)22:19
kulveCan that be used to stream files too? That would be more important for me, I guess22:20
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MoRpHeUzkulve: for sure, just change the "type" from type=myth to type=file22:20
trevarthanwell, but we can do kmplayer plugins in the new mozilla browser, though, right?22:20
MoRpHeUztype=dvd also works22:20
kulvebut for files, some sort of browser would be convenient22:20
MoRpHeUztrevarthan: never thought about that..good idea.. ;-)22:20
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MoRpHeUzkulve: I have a function called (http://IP:40000/ but it just lists files at a directory called ".transcoded" inside gmyth-streamer for security purpouses..22:21
MoRpHeUzbut it's easy to get it off the source-code22:21
|tbb|trevarthan: nice sound much better now22:23
trevarthangood. glad to hear it. sorry about that. I'll have to fix the bluetooth-alsa debs or something.22:24
|tbb|chances to improve the cpu consume?22:24
trevarthanI think you make either the fourth or fifth person besides myself who is using a2dp.22:24
trevarthanin kagu, mplayer, or a2dpd?22:25
trevarthankagu? maybe. mplayer, or a2dpd: probably not.22:25
trevarthana2dpd is already pretty optimized, from what I hear from the developers. It's not written by me.22:26
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|tbb|how long you could listen to a fully charged battery22:26
trevarthanmaybe 2 hours, if lucky. more like 1, I think.22:26
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trevarthanI usually plug it in and use them at my desk.22:26
trevarthanHonestly, I find the s9 rather uncomfortable. :)22:27
|tbb|k i understand22:27
|tbb|is it possible to stream the fm-radio to mplayer?22:27
trevarthanprobably. never tried. I want to try though. I just don't have time.22:27
trevarthanfm radio uses a normal v4l2 interface, I think.22:28
trevarthanvery similar to the radios found on hauppauge tv cards, I think.22:28
trevarthan(from userspace, I mean. I doubt the hardware is similar)22:28
disqyeah afaik it's the same api22:29
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X-FadeHehe, nice story about a guy that build a 1 TB music server and finally reached the conclusion that a N800 + Rhapsody was all he needed :)22:33
milhousethat's why Rhapsody could have been a killer application - such a shame it's limited to US only22:33
milhouseRhapsody + N800 + 3G unlimited data connection... bliss22:33
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X-FadeYep, would have been nice...22:34
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pupniki wish i knew how to generate profiling information on teh nokia22:40
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trevarthanpupnik: easy with python. not sure about C apps.22:41
itnomadnokia website says "For updating your software using a Linux computer, go to". I can't find the info on how to update the OS on my 770.22:41
pupnikwell i did generate some actually, but i'm not sure if it's real22:41
itnomadI'm currently using Version: 2.2006.39-14. Is an update in order?22:43
pupniki wonder if some madman could figure out a way to make the psion 5mx keyboard plug into USB22:45
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unique311pupnik, whats the video res on smw?22:45
|tbb|anyone knows for what is that good for
unique311i got thru the 16 bpp error..22:46
unique311now complaining about no video mode large enough for  800x60022:47
pupnikunique311: did you pull the latest svn sources?  or are you working from some tarball?22:47
unique311this is not mario war..22:48
unique311i'm working with mario chronicles22:48
pupnikoh cool22:48
unique311video is set for 800x60022:48
unique311i need to lower it.22:48
unique311with a correct res22:49
unique311at first i was getting the 16Bpp error22:49
unique311the developer helped me get rid of that..22:49
pupnikyou might look for  SDL_CreateRGBSurface22:49
pupnikwherever those are is where it sets up the screen22:51
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pupnik  you might want to look at that source for a reference for SDL (it's small)22:53
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TimRiker|tbb|: looks like the driver for the wifi chip in the n800 that you need for a custom kernel. The stock kernels include the wifi driver. I have not used it though.22:53
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pupnikIf I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.? - Henry Ford23:07
pupnik^^ :)23:07
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|tbb|damn how can i get my transcend 8gb shdc class6 card back working23:19
|tbb|the nokia doesnt reconized the card, i cant format it23:20
trevarthan|tbb|: does the card have a warranty?23:25
|tbb|it supposed to have a warranty23:25
|tbb|but there might be a way to get it back working without bringing it back, i think the nokia wont brick a sdhc-card23:28
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kulveMoRpHeUz: ** (gmemcoder:10998): WARNING **: Audio elements not found23:31
kulveMoRpHeUz: 404..23:31
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MoRpHeUzkulve: try with mencoder.. =/23:32
trevarthan|tbb|: I think you might be mistaken.23:32
kulveMoRpHeUz: yeah, transcoding from file works with memcoder23:32
MoRpHeUzkulve: regarding these problems with gmencoder, the best person to ask is renatofilho_ as he coded should work any way =(23:32
MoRpHeUzkulve: great! =)23:33
MoRpHeUzat least that..23:33
kulve(running mplayer on my own computer)23:33
|tbb|so could they make problems if i would use the warranty?23:33
MoRpHeUzkulve: that should work on n800 also (with mplayer on that)23:33
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kulveMoRpHeUz: I've compiled gmencoder on /usr/local/something -path.. Maybe that breaks something?23:33
kulveand I haven't recompiled that for a month now.. Is there something new in the svn trunk?23:34
MoRpHeUzkulve: hhmm..probably this /usr/local stuff...23:34
trevarthan|tbb|: not in the usa. not sure about germany though.23:34
|tbb|how can i mkfs.vfat for the internalcard whats the device name?23:34
MoRpHeUzkulve: this last month I didnt change anything on gmyth-streamer as I'm not on this team anymore but maybe them changed something on gmencoder and even gmyth..(I'm in canola team now)23:35
trevarthan|tbb|: looks like on my n800, the device name for the internal card (mmc2) is: /dev/mmcblk0p123:35
trevarthan(gleaned from `df -h`23:36
|tbb|nochance very disappointed over n8 kills sdhc23:38
kulveMoRpHeUz: wow, that plays *nicely* on the n800 :)23:40
MoRpHeUzkulve: =) happy to hear that hehe...should be the same when using mythtv23:41
MoRpHeUzkulve: and should work also through the internet (not just on local lan)23:41
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kulveproblem with live tv could be my powerless media box. It seems it can store nicely, but not show it real time plus store..23:43
kulvenow I'm watching a recorded show.. I need some browser mode to select the file..23:43
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trevarthanMoRpHeUz: you know, I talked to the mythtv devs about gmyth, and they said that probably the reason why it only works with mpeg1 is because it's got all that NUV crap still in the stream.23:51
trevarthanmencoder can handle NUV, but it's old code and not up to date with mythtv (no libnuv or anything).23:52
MoRpHeUztrevarthan: hhmm23:52
MoRpHeUzmaybe that's the reason23:52
MoRpHeUzI'll let the guys that are still working on it know about what you just said...23:52
MoRpHeUzthanks for that! =D23:53
trevarthanyeah, let me know what they say too. I'm interested.23:53
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MoRpHeUztrevarthan: for sure!23:58
kulveMoRpHeUz: hmm.. I get the following error, when trying to see the live tv:23:59
kulve"GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 -23:59
kulve gms.mencoder            ERROR           Error: invalid literal for int():23:59
kulvegms.mencoder            ERROR           Error: Problems while starting streaming.23:59
kulvegms.request             ERROR           localhost.localdomain: code 404, message File not found23:59
kulveany hints..?23:59
MoRpHeUzkulve: any log on backend's side ?23:59

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