IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-07-24

pupniki don't think i made a single change to the 1.5 sources00:00
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trevarthanwhat did you use for the snes9x_opt2 compile flags then?00:02
pupnikoh i did start a version with some changes00:03
pupnikCFLAGS = -g -O3 -march=armv5te -mtune="arm926ej-s" -funroll-all-loops --param max-unrolled-00:04
pupnikinsns=60 -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math00:04
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pupniki am uploading trevarthan00:06
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trevarthancool. I'll see if I can add gtk fullscreen hooks. IMO that's all it's missing before it's usable on the n800.00:06
GreySimDoes anyone here know if there's any kind of hardware diagnostic program included on the 770 by default? I'm about to buy my first 770 used on Craigslist, and want to see if there's anything I can do to be as certain as possible that it's not damaged.00:06
trevarthandon't think so. see if it boots. See if the card slots work. That's about it.00:07
GreySimYeah, I asked that he had it charged so I could at least poke at it. Well, thanks. I might become a fixture in here eventually, as I've been wanting one of these since it was announced, and can't wait to develop for it. :)00:08
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joshinWhy on earth is https used everything at   Is it some sort of sick server stress test?00:44
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TimRikerW: GPG error: bora Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG CBFC2BECC6903E72 Nokia Internet Tablet Archive Automatic Signing Key <>01:15
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Vertoo_anyone got a good ebook reader for my n800?02:14
proctothe best02:16
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Vertoo_thx ptocto. you always active in here or what? your the only one i ever see lol02:19
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gomiamnah, he's just the one you see when you come in here :-P02:20
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megabyte405I'm always in here :)02:20
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Vertoo_procto, can it hamdle x-obak or x-pilot?02:24
Vertoo_he is the one that answer almost all my questions lol. generalantiles or something helped me a bit too02:25
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zethHello anyone up03:03
trevarthanAny python pros in the house? How do I rewrite this C line in Python? g_signal_connect(ctx.conic,"connection-event", G_CALLBACK(connection_handler),ctx);03:03
trevarthanIn particular, I'm not sure how to do g_signal_connect() in python.03:03
zethHello, I just had my house robbed and my Macbook stolen, I thought about getting a Nokia 770 to tide me over until I get insurance money for new laptop. Can one still get into the maemo scene with the older 770?03:04
pupnik  did you see that thread trevarthan ?03:06
pupnikzeth, yes03:07
jonnylambzeth: Of course!03:07
zethI can't really argue with 70 quid03:07
zethfor the 77003:07
zethvs 270 for the n80003:07
zethI am a long time Linux user so I am not scared of getting my hands dirty03:08
proctoanyone know how to turn OFF monitor mode?03:09
pupnikzeth: sorry to hear you got robbed03:09
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pupniki think that's a great price for a 77003:10
trevarthanpupnik: yes. It doesn't make any sense to me as I don't have any experience with either the C or the python side of libconic.03:10
zethyeah sucks03:10
zethcheers anyway03:10
trevarthanand there's not really any documentation right now.03:10
pupnikzeth: a bluetooth keyboard is very nice to have with it03:10
lmouratrevarthan, that's a ConIcConnection signal03:10
lmouratrevarthan, get a conic.Connection, and connection.connect("connection-event", callback_func)03:11
zethpupnik, yeah, they didn't steal my desktop so the on-screen keyboard will probably do03:11
trevarthanlmoura: ok. thanks.03:12
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lmouratrevarthan, another thing I forgot to tell yesterday: AFAIR, if you are going to use the SystemBus together with libconic, you need to get a private instance of the bus03:12
trevarthanmeaning what?03:13
lmouraimport conic03:13
lmourabus = dbus.SystemBus()03:13
zethout of interest, how much difference in speed is there between 770 and 800?03:13
lmourathis won't work03:13
lmouraor shouldn't work :)03:13
zethin reality, while trying to do stuff03:13
trevarthanlmoura: ok. what does work?03:13
lmouratrevarthan, instead, you'll need dbus.SystemBus(private=True)03:14
trevarthanlmoura: do you by chance have some example conic code I could look at?03:14
lmouraI 'translated' the C tests to python03:15
trevarthanthank you! that will help immensely, I think.03:16
trevarthanBTW, what *is* conic? Why does it exist?03:16
lmouratrevarthan, excuse me?03:17
lmouratrevarthan, do you mean libconic?03:17
trevarthanI don't know what it does or is. I simply know that acmonitor uses it to get battery events because they can't be gleaned from dbus easily, and I need to do the same thing.03:18
lmouratrevarthan, libconic is some kind of "convenience library" for the connection services03:19
pupnikbattery?  i thought it was about connection events03:19
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lmouratrevarthan, it's something like a evolution of osso-ic03:19
jpt9i'm running IT2007HE on a 770.  is there any danger in changing the root and/or user passwords?03:19
trevarthanlmoura: so it's a maemo specific thing?03:20
lmouratrevarthan, just 'hiding' the dbus stuff while working with icd daemon03:20
lmouratrevarthan, AFAIK, yes03:20
trevarthanok. that will have to do for now, I suppose. Thanks for the info!03:21
lmouratrevarthan, no problem03:21
pupnikjpt9: i always change the root pw as soon as i install ssh/dropbear03:21
jpt9i did that.03:21
jpt9what about changing the user password?  will it screw anything up?03:21
pupnikwhat's the user password default?03:22
pupnikok i'll try03:22
jpt9a blank one doesn't work.03:22
jpt9neither does 'user' or 'password'.03:22
pupnikchanged password - rebooting03:22
pupnikeverything looks ok03:24
jpt9should i try it?03:24
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pupnikeverything looks ok03:26
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jpt9vim 7.0 via ssh on an n770 is slow.03:30
jpt9quite fun,  though.03:30
* jpt9 is writing a little ruby app to list/launch text adventures using cli frotx.03:30
jpt9*** frotz.03:30
pupnikyeah at least vim is full featured.  like "cl" change letter works03:31
jpt9pupnik: you should link to the cli frotz deb on your site.03:31
pupnikwhy did you want a console frotz?  i forgot03:36
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pupnikoh monkey no here03:37
jpt9gfrotz wouldn't let me change the font size.03:37
* jpt9 doesn't have IRC logs on his nokia, unfortunately...03:37
pupnikblah you're right03:37
Agogoanyone know the progress on Ekiga for n80003:37
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NeoStriderhello folks03:51
pupnikok jpt9 done.  Also emailed gfrotz maintaner about the fonts03:57
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trevarthanI'm running `dbus-monitor --system`04:04
trevarthanand I'm seeing a lot of:04:05
trevarthansignal sender=org.freedesktop.DBus -> dest=(null destination) interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=NameOwnerChanged04:05
trevarthanWhat does that mean?04:05
trevarthanhaha. I just sent my first dbus signal using python. coolness.04:08
lmouratrevarthan, usually, a program accessing or leaving the bus04:10
trevarthanpossibly a different bus than the one I'm monitoring?04:11
trevarthanI think I sent that to the session bus by accident, and it showed up like that on the system bus.04:11
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pupniktrevarthan: are you also 'flyinghigh' on ITT forums?04:27
trevarthanI'm trevarthan everywhere.04:28
trevarthanExcept in real life.04:28
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trevarthananyone know if it's possible to write dbus filters using dbus-python on maemo? I don't see lowlevel.pyo, so I'm not sure...04:39
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edtanyone have an idea why opera in fullscreen mode will not keep the virtual keyboard up?  I select a text field (eg the text for search on, the keyboard appears and immediatly dissapears...04:54
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pupnikman the music in chrono trigger is great04:56
trevarthanpupnik: how did you get it working?05:00
pupniki ran chrono on pc :)05:00
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trevarthanlmoura: so, I don't need to gripe about the dbus thing then. You all seem like you're on it. Who should I gripe to about the bug I'm running into?05:04
lmouratrevarthan, what do you want to do with this signal? just listen to it?05:07
trevarthanyes. I want to listen to it05:08
trevarthanI'm sending a "" status_info_req signal, and I want to listen to the response basically, just like acmonitor does.05:08
lmouratrevarthan, I believe you can use bus.add_signal_receiver05:09
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trevarthanlmoura: When I try to connect to it, I get this exception: dbus_bindings.DBusException: Could not get owner of name '': no such name05:13
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trevarthanlmoura: sweet. I think bus.add_signal_receiver() worked! I got this error: Introspect error: The name was not provided by any .service files05:20
trevarthanlmoura: but it isn't fatal and I still get the signal.05:21
lmouratrevarthan, nice05:21
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trevarthanalright, I'm gonna write some actual code now that I've got all this boilerplate crap out of the way. Thanks, lmoura!05:22
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edtcd /va05:22
edtanyone know how to fix 1682 without reflashing?05:22
trevarthanderf: you get all of that about signals?05:24
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derfNo, I wasn't paying attention.05:27
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trevarthanderf: why did you use libconic in acmonitor?05:49
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pupnikit is used to help keep the connection alive while plugged-in05:50
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trevarthandbus alone isn't enough?05:51
trevarthanI think gconf is used for the ping, isn't it?05:52
pupniki don't know how it works05:52
pupniklatest version of zodttd's psx emu on psx video
pupniks/"on psx"/"on gp2x"/05:53
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trevarthanthat's cool.05:54
trevarthanI thought psx required more CPU than that. Doesn't it require like 1ghz or better?05:55
pupnikhe implemented dynamic recompilation and uses a highly optimized software renderer for the 3d05:57
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pupnikpc emus use opengl to do the 3d05:57
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pupnikyes, it's badass05:58
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trevarthanwow. he did all of that in software?!? You've got to be kidding me....06:04
derftrevarthan: libconic was used to detect the network connection going up and down.06:04
trevarthanah. ok.06:05
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vertoowait, theres a psx emu on n800/770?06:46
vertoo(just read up)06:46
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jga23is there a version of sqlite for maemo?06:54
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`0660yes there is06:57
jga23link?  I can't seem to find it06:58
* cesman wishes the gp2x and nokia 800 would fuck and produce an offspring06:59
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trevarthanderf: Kagu's version of acmonitor (minus a bunch of stuff that is inappropriate in kagu):
`0660jga23, i think it was in the standard repository07:22
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jga23thanks, I had to enable the red pill mode to get it07:35
rikhi. do we have a recommendation for a flckr bulk upload app for the n800 yet? i've just taken about 80photos i want to review and upload,07:35
jga23I installed the docs, but I can't seem to find where they are07:36
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jga23how do you install a deb file from the maemo scratchbox07:48
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inzrik, I think the only app doing flickr uploads is my screenshot-tool, but it doesn't do any other images09:35
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GreySimHello, I just got a 770 for the first time tonight, and was wondering if anyone knew of any good beginners guides beyond the manual and whatnot? Stuff like how to interact with it through Gnome and what common third-party applications and repositories would be especially cool.11:15
GreySim*repositories there are11:15
pupnik  'newbie' forums11:19
GreySimSounds perfect. Thanks.11:19
pupnik  software11:19
pupnikcn)] [Act: 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11]11:20
pupnik(will ask for your serial/validation number)11:20
pupnikhmm gregale was 'wrong' sorry11:21
pupnikthat's what i wanted - scroll down to OS 200711:23
pupnikthat's what i wanted - scroll down to OS 200611:23
* pupnik gets coffee11:23
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mooxhi there. Is it possible to get skype working on a 770 ?11:37
guru3i don't think so because the codecs don't exist compiled for the platform11:38
guru3but i've not really been paying attention so don't take my word for it11:38
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mooxI had during several weeks a 770 and now, I'm interested by the n800. Should I wait a while for a possible n800 release ?11:40
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rittyanGood time of day. Maybe somebody knows where can I get 'glade'? I am trying to run kiwi but it complains about glade. Also it suggest package named 'glade' but I cannot find it11:51
mooxrittyan: what distrib ?11:52
rittyanmoox, eh, I don't know... maemo something. Where can I see it?11:53
rittyanI use last nokia n800 firmware11:54
rittyanmaybe it will give you some hint11:54
mooxrittyan: sorry, I can't help you . I thought  it was for your desktop computer.11:55
rittyanI thought it is #maemo channel :p11:58
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pupnikrittyan: you might need to search for libglade12:00
pupnikapt-cache search libglade12:00
pupniklibglade2-0 - Library to load .glade files at runtim12:00
pupnikapt-get install libglade2-012:01
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pupnikfastest snes9x emu ever for Nokia 77012:02
pupniktime ./squidgesnes ct.smc12:02
pupnikCommand terminated by signal 1112:03
pupnikreal    0m 0.18s12:03
GreySimIs it actually playable on a 770?12:05
* GreySim hasn't touched emulation yet.12:05
pupnikit crashes immediately :)12:05
GreySimOh, right.12:05
rittyanpupnik, I already have it installed12:07
rittyanpupnik, and also gajim (python app which uses glade) is able to start.. however kiwi framework complains :(12:07
rittyansorry, going to lunch break... cya in 1-1,5h12:08
pupnikno idea rittyan12:08
rittyan:/ okay12:08
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mooxIt is possible to use google apps with the n800 ? calendar, reader, docs ?12:10
sxpert-workmoox: should be. try it :D12:11
sxpert-workand report how it goes12:11
sxpert-worklast I checked, google maps was functionnal (with some limits, no dragging of the map)12:12
sxpert-workon my 77012:12
mooxsxpert-work: hehe I don't have n800 nor 77012:12
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pupniktrevarthan: some good info in doc/porting.html .. i haven't gone through it all yet12:17
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lardmanmorning all12:26
mooxso nobody has tried google calendar on its own n800 ?12:31
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* GreySim can try it on 770 real quick, and if it works there it should work on 800.12:45
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GreySimSeemingly does not work on the 770.12:47
GreySimNot with Opera anyway.12:47
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Veggenmoox: It's rumored not to work well.12:52
mooxVeggen: snif12:53
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GreySimMaybe with the new Mozilla browser?12:56
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ffoegboyIm looking at purchasing a N800 but I live in Australia and it doesnt look like they will ever be released here. I will have to import one. Does anybody know if you can connect a USB to the N800?13:27
inza USB what?13:29
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nomisffoegboy: you can connect the N800 to a USB out of the box, but having the N800 provide an USB is more tricky (but apparently possible)13:30
ffoegboynomis, Thanks, are you happy with your unit?13:31
nomisffoegboy: yeah, I am more interested in it from a developer point of view though.13:32
ffoegboynomis, OK, I just play around with Linux, but can see the n800 would be good at work as I travel all the time. I would want to show customers drawings , brochures, pictures etc. Do you think it would be OK for that?13:33
nomisffoegboy: yeah. If you have very complex PDFs it might be a tad slow, but it should be reasonable.13:34
nomisffoegboy: if you want to have it for presenting something to your customer you should consider something with a bigger screen though.13:34
guardianis it possible to install cjk system fonts on the n800 ???13:34
Gathajais there some nice way to run some time consuming task so that it won't stop whole program without using threads? I mean like some Glib function that runs function in a thread and emits event when it's ready13:35
ffoegboynomis, speed is not such an issue, just clarity of image. (I only show to 1 or 2 customers at a time) larger presentations I use a projector and laptop13:35
rittyanhow I can contact maintainers of maemo/extras repository?13:35
* konttori released ukmp 1.513:36
nomisGathaja: without using threads (and without using multiple processes) the only thing I can think of is to work on your problem in small chunks and register the small-chunk-function as an idle function.13:36
konttoriincludes screenshot and video13:36
roopeoh, you did the thumb thingy, great. :)13:36
konttoriroope: thanks to you!13:37
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rittyanI want to contact maintainers. One deb seems to be broken, and maintainer field is wrong there. Would like to figure it out13:37
konttoriroope: considering your position at nokia, any chance you could push for kinetic scrolling for the browser?13:37
roopekonttori: well, um. Yes. We all love that kind of scrollin.g: )13:38
roopeThe performance of scrolling a webpage like that has been problematic. Of course performance is always improving.13:38
konttoriany specific reason why it hasn't found its way to the browser beta yet?13:38
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konttoriahh... true13:38
ffoegboycya nomis i9m sure I will have some questions once I purchase one :-)13:38
roopeWell, the browser beta UI was done similar to the previous browser UI.13:38
roopeThere wasn't really time to make UI improvements yet, they first wanted to just make the basic thing work.13:39
roopeBut I'm pretty sure nobody is opposing that idea. It's just not there yet.13:39
konttorimaybe you could take just a little more memory and render  a larger portion of the page to a buffer.13:39
nomiskonttori: that looks sweet.13:39
konttoriit seems to now render just a little more than is visible to the buffer.13:39
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konttoriroope: sounds great that you are working toward it. I was stunned how great it worked on the device once I tested it.13:41
roopeIt's clearly something I'm at least pushing towards, as well as tigert is.13:42
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Gathajanomis: okay, thanks13:42
roopeBasically you can remove scrollbars completely. Just leave tiny scroll position indicators, if you want.13:42
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konttoriroope: I agree. And that indicator can for example disappear when there is no pressure on the screen. (ok, the current on should probably do that as well in my opinion, but that's just me).13:52
roopeor be transparent. ;)13:52
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roopeanyway, yes. there's a lot of stuff going on.13:52
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konttoriahh great to hear that.13:53
konttoriYou know, when I implemented the two column view, I realized that the song button designs were really similar to rpg games bubbles (especially the selected one)... Almost like playing FF... ;) Anyway, they look great. thanks again for those.13:54
zodttdSpeaking of playing FF (FF7) ...I'm really getting interested in getting a N800 for porting my high performance PSX emu to it.13:55
konttoriis it arm optimized?13:55
zodttdCan you hook up a usb joypad or use a touchscreen for additional less used buttons?13:55
zodttdI wrote an arm dynarec for it :)13:56
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konttorisounds great. Do you think the arm in n800 has enough juice for it?13:56
zodttdIt's called psx4all and is focused on getting going on the GP2X. I just got a fullspeed game with sound on it at a 266MHz ARM920T13:56
GreySimWhoever was asking about Google Calendar earlier, it works in Minimo on a 770 flashed with 2007.13:56
konttoriAnyway, I hope that the next device will have proper dpad (for any meaningfull gaming experience)13:57
roopeWell. Devices like Nintendo DS give a good gaming experience just on a touch screen.13:57
roopeIt really just depends on ... how you design it.13:57
roopeFor a touch screen device imho the games should really be designed for touch scree nuse.13:57
konttoriperhaps you should buy a 770 immediately. They cost like 100 $ and have pretty much the same speed as n800 has13:57
zodttdAbe's Oddysee runs fullspeed with sound. FF7 runs well, Wipeout XL is playable but slightly slow, and games like Strikers 1945, Kula World, and a handful others are extremely close to fullspeed if not fullspeed with sound in the last psx4gp2x build13:58
konttoriroope: but for using e.g. for emulators.13:58
zodttdkonttori: I was going to get a N770, but I heard from pupnik that the N800 has twice the performance for his ports13:58
roopeyes, well. that's true.13:58
roopethere's the gp2x.13:58
zodttdThe GP2X is pretty shoddy in terms of build quality to be honest13:59
konttoriroope: also the device would benefit anyway if it had a good dpad. It's not like it would hurt the device in any way.13:59
roopeWell. Any key takes space from the device.13:59
konttorieven the current is semi-ok if you glue something to it to raise the four direction buttons above the middle button.14:00
roopeA dpad especially. Takes like ... 1.6 cm more space.14:00
konttoriroope: are you guys considering of dropping it altogether.14:00
zodttdThe iStation V43 PMP has an adapter that wraps around the handheld with a full joypad14:00
konttoricause that I can understand, what I can't is to have a bad dpad14:00
roopeWell, I can't really comment on that. But we consider many things of course.14:01
roopeThe current one is quite bad, I do agree on that.14:01
edtpersonally I would like a larger screen (not necessarily higher resolution).  I am nearing 50 and all that small text is a strain on the eyes...14:02
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edtI would not mind something that was all screen with just zoom and power buttons on top.  the rest of the buttons can be done in software...14:03
konttoriBeing totally non-nokian, I can probably voice my wild guess that that might be happening in the future (as maemo seems to be moving away from resolution dependence)14:03
roopeif you look at something like the iphone for instance, it has no dpad.14:03
roopecause the touch screen interactions are really good.14:03
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roopedpad on a touch screen device is kind of ... it's a interesting question. kind of a cop-out.14:04
zottdIt's also useful14:05
zottdThe Zaurus has one btw :)14:05
konttoriso-and-so. It's good for some interactions. But I agree that it's not a vital one.14:05
roopeIt has some interesting implications also. For instance consider the focus element.14:05
zottdFor gaming and/or menu systems, a dpad helps a lot14:06
roopeAll lists must have a focus element since you need to be able to move it with the dpad.14:06
roopeif there's no dpad, there's no need to have initial focus. that moves from two taps to select to one tap to tselec.t14:06
konttoriAgain, if you do have it (and it's a good one), it will allow better interaction on some applications and touch screen14:06
roopewith a focus the first tap just moves the focus.14:06
zottdMy emulator wants the dpad :P14:06
roopewell, depending on the design, of course, but.14:06
roopeHowever, I'm not saying that we would be dropping it. I'm not saying anything. :)14:07
konttoriroope: true. Otoh, it's a application based decision whether to support the dpad or not.14:07
konttoriroope: we hear you!14:07
roopeNot having it makes things kind of simpler to design. You don't need to worrya about it.14:07
roopeAnyways. the iphone has lots of interesting stuff there.14:08
konttorihave you been playing a lot with iphone?14:08
roopeNo. :/14:08
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konttorigrr... it's great anyway that they have good videos demonstrating the device14:09
roopeFor instance no check boxes and radio buttons. That's quite nice.14:09
roopethey don't really work on a fingerable touch screen, so they just don't use them. That's really niec design.14:09
konttoriThey use just a select item instead?14:10
roopethey have these nice flick switches for some checkboxes.14:10
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V-I-Phey guys, quick question: do you think my girlfriend put too much adsense on her lasiksite ?14:45
Fatalwouldn't know, adsense is blocked here14:50
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Tiliwhat is most favorite distro for maemo development15:39
TiliDebian? version?15:39
celestehnot OS X, that's for sure :(15:40
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frobsardine is for 770 only ?15:59
guardiani made an installer package for my application15:59
guardianfollowing debian tutorials etc15:59
guardiannow, how can i change this so that my binary executable is also shipped with a shared library it depends on16:00
guardianso that in the end, i have a single package to install (the shared library is mine aswell)16:00
Veggenyou don't do it like that, normally.16:01
VeggenYou'll make a separate package, and make it depend on it.16:01
VeggenUnless it's unthinkable that anything will ever use it without using your binary executable also.16:02
guardianit's unthinkable16:02
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inzfrob, nope, sardine "works" on N80016:27
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timelessguardian: yes, you can install cjk fonts.16:41
timelesskonttori/roope: what's kinetic scrolling?16:41
guardiantimeless: is there a package by chance ? i noticed there is maemo-cjk on garage but it replaces the input method aswell :(16:42
timelessno clue, no care :)16:42
_Shurik_quiver scolling16:42
konttorikinetic scrolling is like the one in iphone16:43
timelesssorry, some of us haven't spent enough time watching iphone demos16:43
konttoriit's skrolling that continues even after you have removed your finger from the screen. Keeps momentum16:43
_Shurik_when image bumps into the edge of the screen, you actually feel it16:43
konttoriHave a look at the demo video:
timelesshrm, i should install the flv player16:44
konttoriuse uktube ;)16:44
timelessis flvplay a fairly standard app for windows?16:44
timelesswhat's uktube?16:44
konttoriallows you to play youtube videos on your n800 in fullscreen with full fps16:45
timelessi'm running windows...16:45
konttoriuses mplayer to play the video.16:45
konttoriahh... well, you probably have flash then on your system, so no need to download any softare16:45
timelessjust because i have windows doesn't mean i want falsh16:45
* timeless sighs16:46
timelesssilly users16:46
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konttoriWell, install uktube on your device and use that to see the video16:47
_Shurik_timeless: I hope you're not running windows on n800 *gasp*16:47
timelessnotepad.exe is better than /usr/bin/osso-notes16:48
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konttoriwell, there are so many better notepads for windows than just notepad.16:50
timelessat least notepad doesn't generate files with &#32; all over them ...16:51
konttorianyway. if you don't like flash on your system, that's your call. But it's quite an odd decision these days.16:51
konttoriif you want a decent notepad on the n800, use leafpad. it's pretty good16:51
||cwnotepad.exe cna't save formated text in html format16:51
||cwtimeless: so turn off html if you don't want it16:52
timelessnotes can't either16:52
timelessthe input was from browser, the output was garbage16:52
||cwmenu, format, file format, plain text16:52
timelessi know16:52
timelessnote that it doesn't persist16:52
timelesstotally useless16:53
timelessoh, and it doesn't understand that text files are supposed to have a newline before eof16:53
_Shurik_they do?16:53
||cwthat's application specific16:53
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alteregoThey do?16:59
alteregoI thought that was just C source files :P16:59
timelessnothing else matters :)16:59
trevarthankonttori: congrats on ukmp 1.5: It looks great!16:59
disqthey trev17:00
trevarthanhey disq. you check out the battery/screen monitor code yet?17:00
disqgreat job on that one17:01
disqdidn't test it yet tho17:01
timelessso, back to this strange scrolling stuff17:01
timelesswould you expect it to apply to the platform17:01
timelessor just a single application17:01
timelessif so, why?17:01
trevarthandisq: as usual, I'll be tweaking it. I'm not quite happy with it yet.17:01
disqi was just telling konttori how obsessively clean your code is :)17:02
_Shurik_beware of the clean code17:02
trevarthanoooo.. "obsessively clean". Yeah, I guess that describes it well.17:02
trevarthansounds awefully harsh though.17:02
disqhey, i'm happy with it17:02
_Shurik_brb, gotta go send off my dead 8 gig SD for a replacement17:03
_Shurik_new one will definitely live in mmc2...17:04
frobsardine is for 770 only ?17:04
trevarthandisq: I wanted to wait until we had song bookmarking support to make a release, but I'm thinking we might want to spend a bit of time cleaning up the buttons (the way we discussed), and (also the way we discussed) and then go for a release. I don't think bookmarking is going to be straight forward as we're going to have to hack mplayer. I wanted to add gst support before we released, but seeing as how ukmp requires mpla17:05
inzfrob, 16:27 < inz> frob, nope, sardine "works" on N80017:05
disqtrevarthan: doesn't ukmp require mplayer only for video support?17:05
trevarthandunno. maybe. is that true konttori?17:06
frobinz: oh, sorry, what's the difference between sardine and chinook then ?17:06
disqtrevarthan: also should add a check to see if mplayer launch fails (no mplayer, or broken mplayer, etc)17:06
whaq_sound bookmarking? is that for audiobook and the likes?17:06
disqaudiobooks and podcasts yeah17:06
konttoriyeah. nothing else uses mplayer17:06
konttoriand it's really only there because uktube needs mplayer17:06
inzfrob, sardine is always unstable (compare to debian sid), chinook will be the next stable17:06
trevarthandisq: well, if we required mplayer in the .deb, wouldn't that be enough?17:06
disqtrevarthan: if gst support is not in, yeah it will be enough. not a good idea after gst is supported tho17:07
trevarthanI suppose I could attack the gst code ASAP. It's just going to take some rearranging to satisfy my obsession for clean code.17:07
gpd[random: what do people suggest as a phone to pair with N800?]17:07
_Shurik_btw, why python, why not c?17:08
frobinz: so.. packages built on sardine may not even run outside of scratchbox? (say, on a n800 device)17:08
infobotfrob meant: inz: so.. packages built on sardine might not even run outside of scratchbox? (say, on a n800 device)17:08
disqclean code is good, it's easy to tell people to "send in a patch" when the code is clean17:08
inzfrob, currently sardine and chinook are pretty much the same, but that may (and will) change in the future17:08
trevarthanThe only reason why I'm debating gst at all is because bookmarking will probably require mplayer. I won't be able to hack gst, I think.17:08
konttoriit's really no problem seeking in gst.17:08
trevarthankonttori: have you added disq's scrobbler patch yet? That thing is awesome.17:09
konttoriso, just store the bookmark location and then when opening the file, seek to the location17:09
disqtrevarthan: isn't bookmarking just a seek()?17:09
disqkonttori: remember, we had a mail conversation17:09
konttoriyeah, but what is scrobbler?17:09
inzfrob, so the packages built with sardine may or may not run elsewhere ;)17:09
trevarthankonttori: does gst get the file length correct with VBR mp3 files? Does it seek to the correct absolute second with VBR mp3?17:09
frobinz: I see, my problem is that I *need* a decent dbus version (1.x) and I *need* the rtcom ( dev packages, and at least the first seems to be available on chinook17:09
konttoritrevarthan: seems like it does17:10
frobinz: if I build a package agains dbus 1.0 on chinook, I *will not* run on the device, is that correct?17:10
disqkonttori: scrobbling is basicly reporting the current playing song/artist to the web. check out and for detailed explanations/examples17:10
inzfrob, unless you install dbus 1.0 on the device17:10
trevarthanwell, that's worth a look then. I'll check gst out. If it can help me avoid hacking mplayer then I'm all for it. We could use mplayer for A2DP, and gst for everything else.17:10
inzfrob, which may break other things17:10
konttoriahh... that one. Ok, now I remember. It needed osso, right?17:11
* frob starts screaming17:11
disqkonttori: yeah, for dbus calls17:11
konttoriAnd I said that I'll look into it as soon as I get the osso integration running.17:11
konttoriWell, I haven't done that yet17:11
disqkonttori: if you lost the mail the patch is also somewhere in the ukmp garage tracker17:11
konttorimaybe tomorrow17:11
frobthank you inz17:11
trevarthankonttori: example of what maemoscrobbler does:
frobnow, is there anybody from nokia who knows when the rtcom dev packages will be available ?17:12
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konttoritrevarthan: looks nice. (just as I thought it would).17:13
konttoritrevarthan: any new screenshots of your music player?17:14
trevarthanscreenshots link there.17:15
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trevarthanit admittedly doesn't look anywhere near as good as ukmp right now. That's why I want to make a release soon. Maybe we can enlist someone with some graphics talent. I have little to none.17:16
trevarthankonttori: oops, wrong url. here:
disqtrevarthan: btw, why https?17:16
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inzWhy not only pass passwords over https?17:17
frobanother question, is anybody writing extensions for the microb browser ?17:17
trevarthanI could probably work it out so anonymous access goes over http, but I just haven't bothered. Is there a good reason to?17:18
timelessfrob: the wonderful thing about extensions is there's virtually no coordination17:18
Veggentrevarthan: ssl costs more resources.17:18
trevarthanThey're my resources though. I don't mind. :)17:18
disqtrevarthan: and speed. btw, the code works fine, what aspect of it are you not happy with?17:18
timelessit makes normal open source development's lack of coordination seem nonexistent or something17:18
disqor seems to work fine anyway17:19
trevarthandisq: it isn't doing anything special with the dimmed state.17:19
inztrevarthan, you should give links as at least, one annoying dialog less that way17:19
Veggentrevarthan: well, half of it at least. THe other half is all your clients :)17:19
trevarthanI intend to fix that.17:19
frobtimeless: so that's a yes or a no? :)17:19
timelessi'm trying to bribe someone to port a certain extension i use17:20
trevarthaninz: or fix my cert.17:20
timelessworking on finding a way to use someone else's resources for the bribery17:20
frobtimeless: it wasn't very clear :)17:20
disqtimeless: any way to get microb to use another font as default? times new roman is everywhere17:20
timelessdisq: userContent.css17:20
timelessor prefs.js17:20
inztrevarthan, wildcards rule, ok?17:21
frobtimeless: what extension is it ?17:21
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timelesswe should post an updated release relatively shortly17:21
trevarthaninz: yeah. good point.17:21
timelessonce the localizers fix the translations to not be broken...17:21
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frobtimeless: is it possible to use microb in scratchbox ?17:21
trevarthanI might just buy a professional cert now that I'm getting some traffic. I haven't been important enough before. :)17:22
timelessmost people do work that way17:22
* timeless is an exception17:22
timelessthe only annoying part for setting up a dev env is you need to add a debian or ubuntu repo to get 3 missing dev packages17:22
disqtrevarthan: i would get a 770 instead :P17:22
frobtimeless: I tried to build it but hit a wall, then tried to apt-get it and hit another one, what's wrong with me? :(17:22
frobwhy isn't it written anywhere? :\17:23
timelessthey're libidl-dev, quilt, bc17:23
* timeless shrugs17:23
timelesstoday i was supposed to setup some sort of blog like software17:23
frobtimeless: oh those, but I built them from source and dpkg-buildpackaged with -d17:23
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inztrevarthan, (my https-cert has hostname "*" ;)17:23
trevarthandisq: I could probably get a deal on one. I used to work for a small ISP...17:23
guardiani'm printing debug messages using g_debug. do you know if there is a compile flag that would strip those g_debug invocations ???17:23
frobtimeless: I was missing sources for libgtkadi17:24
timelessguardian: fairly certain there is..17:24
timelessoh, that's on sourceforge17:24
timeless 239 #ifdef G_DISABLE_ASSERT17:24
frobthat's an old one17:24
timeless 241 #define g_assert(expr)          G_STMT_START{ (void)0; }G_STMT_END17:24
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frobdoesn't build :(17:24
timelessfrob: that's what we use17:24
guardianbut g_debug uses g_log17:25
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guardianand i found nothing or i missed it17:25
frobtimeless: but since it took me a night to build microb-engine and I'm not going to do it again, how can I get it using apt's superpowers ?17:25
timeless 138 #ifndef G_DEBUG_DISABLE17:25
timeless 139 #define g_debug(...)    g_log (G_LOG_DOMAIN,         \17:25
guardiangonna test G_DISABLE_DEBUG17:26
timeless 142 #else17:26
timeless 143 #define g_debug(...)17:26
disqtrevarthan: i had a 1km wireless link from the isp i worked. using indoor access points outdoors. real nice. :P (wrt54g and openwrt)17:26
timelesssorry, you want G_DEBUG_DISABLE17:26
guardianseems so17:26
guardianthank you17:26
timelessguardian: sorry, too many words on the screen17:26
frobdisq: I'm using a 200m wireless link, indoors :D17:26
timelessfrob: i'm not a friend of apt17:26
frobsigh :\17:27
timelessin fact, other than abusing it heavily in order to make the cross reference that let me answer guardian's question17:27
timelessi hate its guts17:27
frobfair enough17:27
timeless(literally, i spend too much time reading it when it crashes)17:27
frobunfortunately I need to make a binary xpcom component for an extension, and it needs dbus 1.0, and a) I'm not an xpcom expert b) maemo is stuck with an ancient dbus17:28
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timelessi'll help w/ xpcom17:28
timelessyou have 7 mins before i walk out the door17:28
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frobok, very quickie, what libraries do I need to link my *so against, and how can I test if it works17:29
frobregxpcom seems to fail, but xpcom.log is empty17:30
timelessif done right, xpcomglue and maybe nspr17:30
timelessregxpcom is obsolete17:30
timelesswe shouldn't be shipping it :)17:30
timeless(we ship lots of junk)17:30
frobso how do I test it?17:30
timelessif you build --enable-debug you can use NSPR_LOG_MODULES=all:5 or nsComponentLoader:5 (check the source for the right log module)17:30
frobif I build microb-engine with that flag, right?17:31
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timelessnsComponentManager:5 sorry :)17:31
timelessum, again, i'm not a fan of apt17:31
frobnp :)17:31
timelessbasically get a normal mozilla buildtree17:32
timelesschange the mozconfig to include ac_add_options --enable-debug17:32
timelessand don't bother using dpkg/make install17:32
timelessuse ./ ./TestGtkEmbed for basic testing17:32
frobmmm, I was getting the svn tree from browser.garage.maemo.org17:32
timelesshrm, include GRE_HOME=. and USE_LOCAL_GRE=1 in your env before running that17:32
* timeless ponders17:33
timelessthat doesn't give you a source tree directly17:33
frobtimeless: I think you should write this down somewhere sometime :) I mean, nokia made browser available for us to fiddle with it, but with no instructions about how to do that :\17:34
timelessit gives you the ability to use debian commands to accidentally get a source tree17:34
timelessfrob: it's on my ever growing todo list17:34
frobtimeless: it's enough for me :)17:34
disqtrevarthan: ok so i'm looking into the packaging today. now in fact. now let me get the python packaging tutorial17:34
timelessanyway, basically use dpkg-buildpackage once long enough to get a source tree and a build-tree17:34
timelessthen forget it exists17:34
timelessand use instructions to change the mozconfig17:35
frobdo you suggest using trunk or the last tag from garage?17:35
timelessonly the trunk matters17:35
frobyeah :D17:35
timelessthere's actually one possible crash floating around in trunk, but i'm not sure if the tags are recent enough to be helpful17:35
trevarthandisq: you're the man!17:36
frobick :\17:36
timelessanyway, your time's pretty much expired17:36
frobnp, thanks anyway17:36
timelessall are googleable17:36
timelesswhen you start doing work, always use --enable-debug17:37
milhousetimess... there are reports of users being offered upgrades for browser-eal in the app manager even though microb isn't installed, is this a bug (in app manager/repositories)?17:37
timelessand be sure not to strip things17:37
gpdstraw poll: how many people have heard of fon.com17:37
timelessmilhouse: url?17:37
frobgpd: I think, everybody?17:37
timelessi'm not sure it's actually a bug17:37
timelesswe do have a newer browser-eal because we changed things for the browser/opera connections17:37
gpdfrob: are you a member? (in the nicest way)17:38
milhousetimeless: seems upgrading those two components may have caused problems17:38
frobgpd: no, but many of my friends are17:38
gpdonly just found it myself - - seems genius17:38
frobthey all reflashed their routers tough :(17:39
timelessmilhouse: thanks, i've sent a note to the app installer asking about it17:39
timelessand i'll read it tomorrow morning and see if it's something we should worry about17:39
timelessi'm 5mins from being late17:39
gpdfrob: reflash? why? (/me googles)17:39
timelessactually, maybe i'm just plain late since i need to run home and get into fancy clothes17:39
milhousethanks - i might miss you on here tomorrow, any chance you can post an update in that thread?17:39
timelesssome chance, i'm personally anti blogging17:40
frobgpd: because the fon firmware has some features not everybody is happy with (the problem is that by doing it you're breaching their terms of service)17:40
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milhousehah, ok i'll try and catch up with here tomorrow :)17:40
milhouses/with/with you/17:40
infobotmilhouse meant: hah, ok i'll try and catch up with you here tomorrow :)17:40
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timelessoh boy17:41
timelessa bot that speaks perl so i don't have to read it17:41
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* timeless is gone17:41
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frobhow can someone who's *timeless* be *late* anyway? :D17:42
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gpd[random: what do people suggest as a phone to pair with N800?]17:50
Veggengpd: Anyone with good data capabilities?17:50
milhousePretty much any Nokia or SonyEricsson should work17:50
milhouseDepends where you are... Europe?17:51
milhousein that case the world is your oyster :)17:51
gpdjust want cheap - with obvious data and bluetooth17:51
milhouseNokia N95 does 3.6Mb/s HSDPA17:51
milhousecheap... N80?17:51
milhousewhat network?17:51
milhouseobviously not O2 if you're interested in data17:51
gpdvodafone now - but could switch17:51
milhouseT-Mobile and 3 have the best data tariffs17:52
milhousebest and cheapest17:52
gpdcan you buy the phones 'unlocked'?17:52
gpdand just stick a card in - or am I SOL on that17:52
gpd[I hate the carfone warehouse]17:52
milhousenot from t-mobile, but you they will give you the code to unlock for about £2017:52
gpdso nokia don't sell phones directly - with no carrier :(17:53
milhouseyou can buy phones SIM free then stick a T-Mobile/3 SIM in it, sure - thats not a problem17:53
gpdok - cook17:53
milhouseyes, that's not a problem17:53
milhousethey just cost a lot more :)17:53
gpdebay here i come...17:53
milhousegood luck! and you might need it - choose carefully, you don't want a stolen phone :)17:54
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gpdbah - it seems that what I want (bluetooth and 3G) are still considered premium features and are reflected in the prices (/me forgetsaboutit)18:01
DasajevNokia 615118:02
milhousegpd - you looking for contract or PAYG?18:02
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gpdpayg - or very cheap - never use the phone itself18:03
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milhousewhile Bluetooth is a common feature across most ranges, 3G does tend to attract a premium18:03
gpdfon looks entertaining - if there are enough hot spots in UK18:03
milhousegpd: buggered if i've ever found any fon hotspots18:03
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NeoStriderhey folks18:04
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lardmanmilhouse: Likewise, bring on free wifi (or any wifi for that matter)18:05
milhousecouldn't agree more, won't happen though (at least not in the UK)18:05
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NeoStrideranyone noticed diferences in SDL applications stability on calling from console x opening from menu?18:06
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lardmanI went to Portland, Oregon thinking that everywhere in the US had free wifi, but no, Nokia wasn't much use then18:06
gpdwell something like fon or whisher might undercut the telecoms companies - esp if people get pissed off with the ridiculous charges18:06
gpdthere are certrainly enough private wifis around - just that they are mostly locked in UK18:07
lardmanIt's also illegal to use them....18:07
milhouseSshhhh... ;)18:07
gpdyou mean it breaks EULA of your ISP18:07
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milhousePublic Wifi's (Starbucks, Costa Coffee etc. etc.) are all run by different firms meaning you need an account with each (T-Mobile, BT, whatever)... that firm who were trying to pull it all together only had agreements in the US but it's a good idea18:08
milhousehowever, a cheap 3G HSDPA data plan will almost always be better than WiFi even if someone manages to create a unified login/payment scheme18:09
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gpdit would be good if the n800 could automatically hop onto free wifi as you wander about - download mail etc18:10
milhousethere's a rumour that 3 may be coming out with a £10/month 10GB capped HSDPA data tariff... far cheaper and faster than most WiFi hotspots18:10
milhousegpd - wasn't that what Park WiFi was about?18:10
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milhouseyou installed a little status bar applet on the 770/N800 and it would scan for networks etc.18:11
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milhouseUS centric (NY centric to be honest - timed to coincide with the opening of the NY Nokia store) but might work anywhere18:12
gpdthey must be phasing it out as there is no N800 client18:12
milhousenot sure if it's compatible with the latest N800 firmware though (might not need updating)18:12
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milhousetry the 770 version, might work18:13
gpdjust running it now18:13
milhousetrue though - nokia do seem crap at keeping stuff up to date18:14
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gpdwell i ran it - but nothing changed18:14
milhouseyou might need to enable the status bar applet in Control Panel -> Navigation ?18:15
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gpdno sign of one18:16
milhousei'll give it a go here on 4.200718:16
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milhousegpd - do you now have "ParkWifi Detector" available in the Extras menu?18:21
milhousei see what you mean - it does bugger all when you click it18:22
gpdbut it does nothing - as does running the .sh file18:22
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milhousethat sucks18:22
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lardmanWhy have they done this park wifi thing?18:43
lardmanIs it really Nokia only, or is it that they just supply some snazzy software to connect?18:44
gpdam I missing  repository if I can't find rsync?18:52
gpdI compiled it myself - but now I can't find it18:52
milhouselardman - it was when the Nokia NYC store opened18:52
milhouseNokia had some WiFi networks set up in Central Park18:53
milhouseCan't remember when that happened, but obviously before the N800 arrived18:53
lardmanmilhouse: Ah, okay, I was wondering if it was a masterplan to take over the free wifi world18:54
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gpd <-- rsync but not in any of my repos18:55
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* mgedmin ponders the idea of
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dpb_ ?19:03 is there...19:04
zodttdeven better19:04
gpdinteresting DNS19:04
zodttdyeah weird19:05
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dpb_don't see anything weird about the dns.. they just have * in the zone file..19:27 will work19:27
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||cwyeay for wildcards and default vhosts19:37
milhousewhat the hell... i now need to accept a licence when upgrading to sardine19:39
milhouseand it's several pages of licence, then i need to type "i accept" at the end. pain in the arse19:39
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bedboihi there.19:42
bedboiis there any MPEG decoder which uses the DSP?19:42
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konttoriHave you people seen how archos handles flash movies?20:10
konttoriIt loads them automatically to the main video player (well, asks user first).20:10
konttoriReally nice idea. I hope Nokia will adopt that as well.20:10
milhousemaybe a Mozilla browser extension could do it20:12
milhouse"View using Flash player or mplayer"20:12
milhouseoff you go then :)20:13
konttoriAnyway, considering archos device itself, it's a pretty sweet competitor to n80020:13
milhousewhat browser is it using?20:14
konttoriopera 920:14
konttori30 gigs hd20:14
milhouselooks quite slick but media players have never really appealed to me20:14
konttoriin the cheapest model20:14
konttori800x480 touch screen20:14
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konttori32 bit display20:15
milhouseso pretty similar to the n800 (better display even)20:15
milhouselinux? third party development?20:15
milhousei bet it doesn't have sucky video bandwidth either :)20:15
milhouseoh right - 4m 40s into the youtube vid you can see the flash handling20:16
konttoriI think it's done right in that device.20:16
konttorin800 should have exactly the same behaviour as default.20:16
konttorithe 704 is pretty much the perfect internet tablet. It has 7" touch screen20:18
milhousei don't think it should prompt, what it should do is show a Flash placeholder and you should have a pop out menu when you hold the stylus on the placeholder with options "Play with Flash player; Play with mplayer; Settings..." etc.20:18
milhouseWithin Settings you can have "Don't ask me this again"20:18
konttoriand also let you store it20:18
milhousesometimes I go to a site I don't want to watch the video so it shouldn't interrupt me assuming i do want to watch it20:18
milhouseFlashblock has all the flash placeholder functionality already, and a popup menu20:19
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milhouseassuming that can be ported to Microb, it may not be a fantastic leap to add Mplayer functionality as well20:19
milhousewhat's the cpu in the archos btw?20:20
milhouseit seems quite nippy20:21
milhousealthough their actual Flash player performance sucks as much as the N800s!20:22
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cbx33can someone look at
milhouseyou can see the flash player trying to play the youtube video at about 5m30s20:22
cbx33make sure I havnt made any glaringly bad mistkes20:22
milhouselooks about the same low framerate we had with 2.200720:23
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milhousechrist... someone from archos is smart. search youtube for n800 and sort by date added, all you get is hits for the bl**dy archos! :)20:39
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milhouseummm... frat boy with n800... is he wearing eye makeup??
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guardian_does application manager look into the same directory as the .deb file i'm installing manually to match dependencies ?20:46
`0660the answer would be no to that question, but yes to the question you tried to ask20:48
guardian_in fact i have 3 deb files that are private, not available on any repository anywhere20:49
guardian_they depend on each other20:49
guardian_so i guess they have to be installed in order , file by file20:49
guardian_or is there a way to install them in a row ?20:49
`0660probably there is, but why would you need it?20:51
guardian_because it's closed source demo stuff etc etc and marketing says provide a nice installer20:52
guardian_because you can't expect sales to untar the demo application through ssh20:52
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`0660make your own public repository and provide a one click installation file?20:53
guardian_i'm rather out of time :/20:54
guardian_and i'm not sure they would allow that20:54
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guardian_or i'll make a dirty .deb that installs also the dependencies20:55
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JaffaEvening, all21:18
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bedboiis dspmpeg4sink available for n800?21:24
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rhysanyone else get problems when switching between opera windows on the n800 now/21:26
_Shurik_what sorts of problems?21:27
rhysthey updated the engine, and ever since it locks up for a bit when i switch between mutliple webpages. not to mention i dont have an option to "open link in new page" anymore. its just open link21:27
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rhys_Shurik_, when you have 2 web windows open, and go to switch between them, the window goes blank, then the window bar at the top just flicks between your two web windows, until you tap on it, then it will finnally switch properly. if you dont tap on the top bar of the web window, it will keep flicking like that indefinitly21:28
rhysdoes that explain it?21:28
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_Shurik_yes, but I haven't seen this yet21:29
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_Shurik_was there engine update? I haven't done anything since last firmware21:30
rhysim curious if its a conflict with something else i have installed21:30
_Shurik_well, except loosing 8gig SD21:30
rhysooo. :( that has to suck.21:30
rhysno, in the application manager, there was an update.21:30
_Shurik_rhys: well, I think I'm getting a replacement from newegg.com21:31
_Shurik_so not too bad. Just need to make sure I'll keep it in mmc221:31
rhysdid it fall out?21:31
_Shurik_no, I used it in external slot21:31
_Shurik_and it finally got FUBAR-ed21:32
_Shurik_new firmware is doing something wrong21:32
_Shurik_and burning up high-cap SDs21:33
_Shurik_lots of people are having problems21:33
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rhysyou mean the shdc ones? mines a 4gb, which the older firmware even supported21:34
_Shurik_right, you probaby have non hd21:34
_Shurik_mine is21:34
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_Shurik_and sdhc kernel with previous firmware had no problems with it. It's something new21:35
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rhysi personally dislike debian, and wonder why it wasnt based on something else.21:35
rhysbut thats just me.21:35
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wumpuswell yeah they can hardly take all people their personal dislikes into account can they21:36
rhysotherwise, i quite like the nokia, this web thing im pretty sure is my fault. the only thing i would ask of nokia is support the 3d accel chip.21:36
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rhyswumpus, ofcourse.21:36
_Shurik_I think it's fine21:36
wumpusa lot of people do like debian, otherwise it wouldn't be so popular21:36
_Shurik_it does what it suppose to do21:37
_Shurik_and even more21:37
_Shurik_next version will surely give more options. If Nokia won't abandon this project21:37
wumpusand do you know a distribution with a better package system?21:37
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rhyswumpus, i love slackware. a package system to me should be simple. on an embedded device it apt shouldnt be needed.21:38
rhysbut tbh, the only system that is better than apt is pacman21:38
wumpuswell yeah slackware has a decent package system too21:39
DaniloCesarwumpus, Deb the better package system ever. But Maemo disappoint me sometimes because I can't use all the power of Debian's package system. For example, apt-get dist-upgrade do not upgrade my "firmware"...21:39
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DaniloCesarwumpus, * apt-get is the better....21:39
wumpusit's so much like dpkg it could be a clone though :)21:39
rhysDaniloCesar, an embedded device isnt an OS.21:39
wumpusDaniloCesar: yep, I agree21:40
rhysdoesnt take a full os*21:40
wumpuswould be very nice if dist upgrade actually worked21:40
wumpusinstead of having to clean up the entire device for an upgrade21:40
_Shurik_I believe it's going to, no?21:41
rhysembedded. its not a fully computer21:41
DaniloCesarWould be very nice.... I'm tired of backup all my conf's before a N800 upgrade... And I always forget something... lol21:42
_Shurik_well, I think it's a part of setup21:43
_Shurik_if one doesn't like to set their system up - get an iPhone21:43
_Shurik_it just works :)21:43
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_Shurik_or leave updates alone :)21:44
DaniloCesarrhys, yes... We know... Tell me, Do you are a Nokia employee?21:44
DaniloCesarIphone?!? lol... No thanks!21:44
_Shurik_how much is Neo1973 btw?21:45
DaniloCesarIphone does not have a gcc... World sucks without gcc....21:45
DaniloCesar$ 30021:45
DaniloCesarand development kit is about $ 45021:45
_Shurik_seems like interesting gizmo21:45
rhysme? no.21:45
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_Shurik_so, gcc runs on n800?21:48
_Shurik_I'm looking to get into developing for n800, but still haven't gotten around grasping all the concepts21:49
mgedminmmm, openmoko21:50
DaniloCesar_Shurik_, I don't know if gcc runs on N800. I'd never tried before. But it runs on MaemoSDK. So its fine for me... But, I think that compile things under n800 would not be a nice work...21:50
_Shurik_right, so you still need to develop in sb21:51
_Shurik_and apparently you can't really test it unless you deploy the damn thing :)21:51
_Shurik_this is horrible :)21:51
_Monkeyi think scratchbox is like the glue that ties it all together21:51
_Shurik_sorry, I'm all over the place21:52
_Shurik_so when I say something stupid, just smack me21:52
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DaniloCesar_Monkey, I agree.21:54
_MonkeyDaniloCesar: what?21:54
_Shurik_so I really need to read everything from the start21:55
_Shurik_also I'm wondering if there's any benefit in using python for any development21:55
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_Shurik_apparently apps can be coded faster21:56
DaniloCesar_Shurik_, I using python to do something now....21:56
_Shurik_DaniloCesar: where are you doing actual development?21:56
DaniloCesarI'm trying do a risk game with pygame. But I'm not a pygame expert... So I'm learning yet....21:57
konttoriPython is much faster to develop on and it's nicely cross platform to develop on.21:58
DaniloCesarYes... develop with python is very fast.... But I have some doubts about "speed". n800 does not have the strongest processor in the world...22:00
_Shurik_right, so what setup do I need to start?22:00
_Shurik_well, it's definitely for a non-speed critical apps22:00
_Shurik_eventually I'd like to get SDK going. But for now would be interesting to try few things with python22:01
DaniloCesarYes... and Risk game is a "speedless" game rigth..22:01
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_Shurik_too bad I only play counterstrike22:02
disqkonttori: could you commit the latest ukmp to garage so i can try and find out what's wrong with the packaging?22:02
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trevarthanwould anyone like to test a Kagu pre release deb?22:09
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tyYo! Can anyone access secure sites from their Nokia tablet's Opera? Minimo can get to Garage and such, but it crashes when I try to download anything... Help?22:14
_Shurik_I can22:14
guerbyhi, anyone with python / dbus experience (on the N800) ?22:14
ty_Shurik_: Your on the 770 or 800?22:15
||cwty: my bank's site works on the 77022:15
_Shurik_ty: n800, 128 virtual memory22:16
trevarthan_Shurik_: ever played ShadowRun? It's a lot like CS.22:16
_Shurik_trevarthan: not really. I'm just not much into games22:17
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tyHmm... I guess it's just the Hacker Edition then if it works on both 770 and 800...22:17
_Shurik_I think I just got stuck on CS because I can get in and out22:17
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_Shurik_ty: sorry man22:18
tyNaw, thanks for the time! More google hunting for me, then... -_- Maybe someone has ported Epiphany to maemo...22:19
trevarthan_Shurik_: Yeah, I used to be a big CS fan, back in college. (2001)22:19
trevarthanbeen a looooong time since I played.22:19
_Shurik_it's fun22:21
_Shurik_when driking22:21
_Shurik_sorta like fuzzball22:21
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soothsayerAfter an apt-get update I get this: GPG error: bora Release: The following signatures were invalid22:26
soothsayerHow do I fix that?22:26
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pupnik[Slashdot: Your Rights Online] German Court Convicts Skype For Breaching  GPL -22:28
pupnikjust played a few hours on the n770 today... the dpad is really really bad for gaming22:29
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_Shurik_we need a bt nintendo style controller22:29
pupnikyou can buy one but it's about 40 euro and doesn't fit the nokia22:30
FunkyPenguinchaps is there an alternative rss reader out there? the one that comes with the n800 is starting to hack me off22:30
_Shurik_I think that's all we got22:30
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: There is a plugin for claws (but the package seems to be broken?)22:31
FunkyPenguinsoothsayer: yeah I noticed that too22:31
trevarthan_Shurik_: wiimote works (I think), but it's expensive.22:31
_Shurik_I just don't think it's a gaming platform to begin with22:32
_Shurik_although of course it can be22:32
FunkyPenguinnuts, if I could get past writing 'hello world' I'd look at doing something22:32
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: If you have a server you can email feeds to yourself using a variety of tools.22:32
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: Also, I think Google reader is reported to work with new Mozilla browser22:33
_Shurik_FunkyPenguin: what is your main complaint with current RSS reader?22:34
FunkyPenguinsoothsayer: google reader does work with the new browser, but if im off line it's useless22:34
_Shurik_do not allow yourself to be offline! Ever!22:35
FunkyPenguin_Shurik_: *very* slow, false updates (shows new posts when they are old), crashes once a day22:35
_Shurik_I see. I haven't used it a lot22:35
_Shurik_I don't like RSS that much to be honest. I'd just rather go the website when I'm online22:36
FunkyPenguinI try not to be off line, but I have no choice at times22:36
_Shurik_and I always have a set of e-books for offline time22:36
FunkyPenguinI sub to several sites for work and it is handy for reference22:36
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: Yeah I know. Trust me I sympathize. I hate all this 'always online' crap and the absence of decent feed readers on any platform.22:37
_Shurik_I can't imagine it being really difficult to put one together22:37
FunkyPenguinoh yeah the rss home applet annoys me too :)22:38
soothsayer_Shurik_: It's not but it is tedious, especially for the feature I want.22:39
_Shurik_well do tell :)22:39
FunkyPenguinis the osso rss reader based on liferea?22:40
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: Yeah, I'm pretty sure.22:40
_Shurik_I'm not saying that I will do it, but if I decide to code something, might as well be something usefull22:40
FunkyPenguinshame coz I have no issues with that22:40
FunkyPenguin_Shurik_: please do ;)22:40
soothsayer_Shurik_: Well, step 1 would be to store the feeds in a database.22:41
soothsayer(Feed items)22:41
soothsayerThat's probably the most tedious part.22:42
_Shurik_(if I had bt keyboard, I'd take notes into the n800. Writing on the paper instead)22:42
pupnikjust did that today -22:42
soothsayerThe problem I was having was mapping Atom and RSS into a DB schema.22:42
pupnikused 770 as notetaking device - could keep up with most of the conversation without problmes22:42
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FunkyPenguinwhat about porting liferea as is and compare the result to the builtin one?22:43
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: Is that addressed to me?22:43
FunkyPenguinto anyone really22:43
_Shurik_haha, sorry. I meant to say what did you do today? :)22:43
_Shurik_forgot to enable thought->irc interface22:44
pupniki had an interview and spent a few hours testing Ur-Quan Masters22:44
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: It doesn't meet my needs, particularly with regards to reading feeds on multiple computers.22:44
pupnikand i decided i hate the dpad22:44
whaq_hm.. i'm searing the itt forum but can't find anything about PDF reflow function. Is there such thing?22:44
whaq_searching obviously22:45
* FunkyPenguin needs to set up a scratchbox environment and read up on how to port apps22:45
_Shurik_PSP's buttons are definitely better for gaming22:45
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FunkyPenguinsoothsayer: I haven't heard of a distributed rss reader22:45
whaq_psp buttons were designed specifically for gaming22:45
FunkyPenguinthe closest thing is a web based one22:45
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: The only ones I know of are 'online' readers, or alternatively, by emailing your feed items to an IMAP account.22:46
whaq_can anyone tell me if the pdf browser on n800 (evince?) support text reflow?22:46
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: Yeah I mean web based22:46
FunkyPenguineither that or you have a central server that pulls all your feeds and then your client pulls from your server22:46
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: That's what is ideal for me. It doesn't exist AFAIK22:46
pupnikif you want text reflow then convert pdf to html22:46
whaq_pupnik: ok22:47
FunkyPenguincunning plan, there would be _big_ brownie points for that :)22:47
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soothsayerWhat repository is libgcrypt >= 1.2.2 in?22:48
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pupnikResults 1 - 10 of about 79,400 for "detachable penis". (0.14 seconds)22:49
pupnikrepository search22:49
_Shurik_is that n800 compatible?22:49
pupnik(was searching for the song 'detachable p...')22:49
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pupnikgood grief the first result is a *Wikipedia* entry22:50
_Shurik_years of IRC taught me to press Cntrl C many.. many times22:50
soothsayerpupnik: Ah thanks! I knew of that site, but never saw the search box :|22:51
pupnikthank whoever made that site - it's useful22:51
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_Shurik_what is Canola exactly22:52
FunkyPenguinok here's another noob question....22:52
FunkyPenguinis there an mp4 video player for the n800? I have over 200GB of video for my psp and it doesn't play on the n800 :(22:53
soothsayerFunkyPenguin: Mplayer doesn't work?22:53
_Shurik_oh yes, what's is a good program to convert mp4 into something mplayer playable :)22:53
FunkyPenguin_Shurik_: canola is a kind of media centre type app22:53
soothsayerIf mplayer doesn't play it your probably out of luck22:53
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FunkyPenguinthink of it as mythtv for maemo without the tv22:54
soothsayerCanola uses mplayer as a backend I think22:54
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soothsayer_Shurik_: Mencoder. There is a Java UI for it called 'video converter' (convertor?) somewhere22:55
soothsayerIs anyone else getting key errors against when doing apt-get update?22:55
trevarthan_Shurik_: works well for the n800 too.22:55
_Shurik_I think I have it, but I probably need codecs then22:55
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FunkyPenguinsoothsayer: looks like it has something to do with the wrappers used :(22:56
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FunkyPenguinI'll look into it though22:56
soothsayermp4 is just a container, not the video codec.22:56
FunkyPenguinyeah just like avi22:56
* FunkyPenguin biab22:57
_Shurik_I see22:57
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guardianevening #maemo23:05
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soothsayerAnybody have pidgin installed and can run 'apt-cache policy libgcrypt11' for me?23:07
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frob[sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~/repos/svn/garage/browser/browser-ui/trunk] > --engine=mozilla --display=:2 --view=win23:11
frobAF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/keyboard.defs' not found23:11
frob/home/shackan/.osso/current-gtk-key-theme:1: Unable to find include file: "keybindings.rc"23:11
frobtablet-browser[19604]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GModule - g_module_symbol: assertion `module != NULL' failed23:11
frobqemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting23:11
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maddlerhi all!23:12
soothsayerDoes vi on Maemo not have undo?23:14
_Shurik_vi is scarry to me23:14
pupnikit is busybox vi with few features23:15
_Shurik_that's even scarrier23:15
pupnikif you learn vi, editing is faster than with standard 'wordpad' style editors23:15
soothsayerpupnik: vim weighs in at 19 megs :(23:15
pupniki know soothsayer :( you can delete the spelling dictionaries to save a few megs23:16
pupniki will compile a slim but full featured vi sometime23:16
maddlersoothsayer: there is a full vim package... but can't recall on which repo...23:18
soothsayermaddler: Yeah I know. It is just a little big23:18
maddlersoothsayer: yup...23:19
maddlersoothsayer: try the one here:
maddlerit has some glitches... but it should be working... :)23:20
maddleris the one I use...23:20
_Shurik_of course you're using bt keyboards, no? :)23:20
maddlermy package I mean...23:20
soothsayer_Shurik_: SSH23:20
maddlerfar from perfect... but it works :)23:20
_Shurik_ah I see23:21
_Shurik_btw, how is secure latest firmware overall?23:21
soothsayer_Shurik_: Don't have a BT keyboard (but want one)23:21
_Shurik_how scary is it to have it on DefCon? :)23:22
_Shurik_soothsayer: I do too. But I haven't seen what I like yet23:22
_Shurik_really tempted to try that laser one. But I do like tactile feedback when typing23:22
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pupnikthanks maddler!23:24
maddlerpupnik: you are welcome...23:25
maddlerthere should be a better package laying somewhere...23:25
soothsayermaddler: Why is there other vim package 19M and yours 670K?23:25
maddlersoothsayer: mine is very minimal...23:26
maddlerno plugins... docs... or whatever...23:26
soothsayermaddler: Customized through compile time switches?23:26
maddleryup... afaik...23:27
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maddlerI built it 6 months ago...23:27
soothsayermaddler: Okay, thanks for that package.23:27
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maddleryou are welcome...23:27
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HumanPenguinQuestion: Any Hams within the Maemo development community ?23:35
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sciboyHey question, if I bought a n800 from overseas and they finally release it over here, would my warranty still be valid to get it repaired here?23:41
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jsjn770 is $140 at, has it ever been lower?23:43
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nomisjsj: yeah. $99 for developers when it initially was presented.23:44
whaq_sciboy: I think it will depend on your local nokia dealer's policy23:44
jsjnomis: serious? wow23:45
nomisjsj: well, it was a selected audience.23:45
pupniki think something like 500 units23:46
Mikho$99 for developers?23:46
pupnikhmm maemo gregale has no /usr/include/SDL_config.h23:46
pupnik /usr/include/SDL/SDL_config.h23:46
Mikhois there an ongoing discount for n800?23:46
_Shurik_yes, it's getting cheaper by the week23:47
maddler_Shurik_: you mean official price?23:47
_Shurik_well, just as anything else. It's getting cheaper and cheaper to buy it23:47
_Shurik_I paid 374 shipped I think23:48
_Shurik_month and a half ago23:48
maddler_Shurik_: welcome in the family then :)23:48
MikhoIt's pretty awesome that my initial hello world program is starting to look more and more like a real application23:48
whaq_bought mine at amazon, $358.88 shipped23:48
sciboyI'm waiting to get mine once they release in Australia.23:49
whaq_if within 30 days they have furhter discount, you can apply for the difference to be refunded back23:49
disqMikho: developer device program ended in january. the discount codes given expired last month23:49
_Shurik_Mikho: soon you can select who you're sending hello to via the menu? :)23:49
MikhoNo, it doesn't support menus yet23:50
sciboyI miss my printer. =(23:50
_Shurik_you're way ahead of me already23:50
maddlerwrite her a letter! :D23:50
_Shurik_scuboy: printing on paper is evil23:50
_Shurik_if that's what you're talking about23:51
sciboy_Shurik_, I don't have a nokia device yet so I have no choice in the matter.23:51
sciboyI like dead tree's.23:51
MikhoBut it's nice to see how gtk sometimes actually does what I want it to do23:51
sciboyLess for hippies to hug.23:51
pupniki miss green fanfold paper23:51
_Shurik_oh, I don't care about that. I just don't like paper23:51
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maddlercan't find a good theme for irssi :)23:52
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sciboy_Shurik_, I draw a lot so I tend to like paper. =P23:52
_Shurik_well see, I can't draw23:52
sciboyAlthough cheap ass cardboard is coming in second.23:53
_Shurik_but I can do image searches in google23:53
_Shurik_that seems to be sufficient23:53
sciboyYou got me beat. =P23:53
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sciboyActually my main interest in 770/n800 is having something to view reference images and info on while I work.23:54
_Shurik_can't it do that already?23:54
eichi_N800Where is the script or config, which controls the app, which starts, if i put out the camera of the n80023:54
sciboyYeah but I'm not sure the screen is going to do the job, I need to see it in person or get one really cheap.23:55
_Shurik_sciboy: how about just a second monitor on PC?23:55
sciboy_Shurik_, Not portable enough. =)23:55
_Shurik_because it's really more for a close-up viewing. Screen is great but I can't use it when it's on the desk23:55
_Shurik_I have to hold it23:56
sciboyI work on my PC at the moment and I'd really like to move away from the desk once in a while.23:56
pupnika really fast and responsive sketch app would be nice23:56
sciboy_Shurik_, That's why I have to wait and see it in person.23:56
sciboyThe resolution is fine and dandy, but I won't have it up in my face.23:56
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_Shurik_sciboy: I think you will like it. Screen is the best out of all portables23:56
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sciboy_Shurik_, Depends on the size though, one thing I've been wondering is how does it handle in bright light?23:57
_Shurik__not too well unfortunately23:58
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pupnikare there portables that have backlit lcds that can compete with the sun?23:58
_Shurik__when I'm reading it in my pool, I have to stir to shady side :-D23:58
_Shurik__well, iphone suppose to be visible really well23:59
sxpert"stirred, not shaked"23:59
sciboypupnik, There's the new OLED screens they're working on, doesn't need a backlight. =)23:59
_Shurik__that would be really nice23:59
sciboypupnik, Also, I know lots of tablet pc's that handle in direct sunlight.23:59
pupnikit takes a lot of energy.  sun is very bright23:59
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_Shurik__that's the biggest problem with n800 as GPS in the car23:59

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