IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2007-07-20

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||cwVladDrac:, wiki, application catalog00:06
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AceadoHi how can i get x-chat full screen?00:10
AceadoIve got a 77000:10
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||cwAceado: the full screen button doens't do it?00:12
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rittyan2Hi, which repo should I add in order to have libglade for nokia n800?00:20
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* VladDrac 's trying his first app install, 'pidgin'00:21
VladDracbut it's failing with a very uninformative "Package not found"00:22
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||cwVladDrac: did you add the source for it?00:26
VladDracI followed the instructions on
VladDracinstalled three sources, updated, chose 'pidin' from 'instantmessaging'00:27
VladDracin installed, seemed fine until the very end00:27
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Cegycan someone tell me how i can get the file broswer type thing when i shh to my 770 ?00:33
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VladDrachmm, I wonder what account to login when installing the dropbear ssh server00:33
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mgedminCegy: "the file broswer type thing"? perhaps you mean midnight commander?00:34
Cegycan u get it for windows tho ?00:34
mgedminin that case you don't mean midnight commander, I guess00:34
mgedmindo you want to browse the 770's files on your computer through a ssh connection?  in linux I'd suggest sshfs00:35
mgedminI don't know if a windows solution exists... perhaps some SFTP client00:35
Cegyi was gonna use winscp but i think i need to install open shh00:36
VladDracdoes anyone know what password to login with after installing dropbear? (or where to configure it)00:36
sp3000VladDrac: look in the appmanagers log00:36
sp3000menu tools -> log00:36
Cegyuser:root pass:rootme00:36
sp3000usually has details when you get one of its useless error dialogs00:37
VladDraccegy: tx00:37
VladDracsp3000: thanks for the tip. Still need to find my way around the system00:37
mgedminCegy: yes, if you want to use scp/sftp, you need to have an ssh server running on the 77000:37
* VladDrac used to hack his sharp zaurus 2 years ago.. the 770 is way better :)00:37
Cegywhich 1 would i use for that on the 770 ?00:38
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mgedminCegy: I've used openssh with great success.  I never tried dropbear00:39
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VladDrac"Failed to fetch libice6_6.3.4-2_armel.deb and libsm6_6.0.4-3osso1_armel.deb00:40
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Cegywhere can i get openshh from?00:45
sp3000VladDrac: maybe need to refresh? tools -> ...00:46
VladDracsp3000: that's not it00:46
VladDrac(tried apt-get update as well)00:46
Cegymgedmin ?00:46
sp3000Cegy:, search, should generally do it?00:47
Cegyno luck there00:47
sp3000what flavor of no luck?00:47
Cegyas in i can't find it there00:47
mgedminCegy: what did you look for?00:47
Cegyopen shh?00:48
mgedminthat's why00:48
mgedminit's S S H, not S H H00:48
mgedminSecure SHell00:48
sp3000VladDrac: doesn't it give more details on subsequent lines?00:48
Cegythe client/server is the 1 i want right?00:48
mgedminprobably not00:49
mgedminI think that's dropbear00:49
VladDracErr mistral/free libice6 6.3.4-200:49
VladDrac  404 Not Found [IP: 80]00:49
VladDracErr mistral/free libsm6 1:6.0.4-3osso100:49
VladDrac  404 Not Found [IP: 80]00:49
mgedminwell, you could try it00:49
rittyan2 <- I wonder if it's my problem too :| bug is old and it has no comments00:49
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mgedminbut don't ask me for help, as I've never tried it00:49
mgedminopenssh is the one I've used00:49
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mgedminthe only trick is that to install it you need to use
Cegythats it isn't it?00:49
sp3000VladDrac: hm, I guess it sounds like something about the mistral repo is being broken00:51
VladDracit does00:51
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VladDracbtw what kind of restoration/debricking features does the 770 have?00:54
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VladDracbtw adding sources for 'gregale' seems to fix my issues00:55
sp3000the backup app backs up some stuff, manual backing up via e.g. scp, reflash00:55
VladDracah.. there it is :)00:55
VladDrac"Welcome to Pidgin!" :)00:56
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Presence_does pidgin work now?01:01
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rittyandoes any of you have evince installed?01:02
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rittyanif so, could somebody please tell me where did he get libglade2-0, because on attempt to install evince from bora-extras repository I have the following error: "Application packages missing: libglade2-0"01:07
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disqgah. SDL doesn't recognize the headset button keysym and instead of passing it on it just eats the event01:12
disqyou get "X11: Unknown xsym, sym = 0x1008ff6e". great. (it's in )01:12
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alteregoHow stable is the SVN generally?01:15
disqthe svn? which one?01:15
alteregoMaemo, hildon01:15
disqstable? you mean the trunk? it's work in progress so i wouldn't expect much01:17
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pupniki need a job01:20
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alteregoGet one then :P01:20
pupnikwhat do you do alterego01:21
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alteregoI admin VDS servers, consultancy, web design custom apps.01:22
alteregoWhatever people want me to do really.01:22
alteregoIf I want to do it that is.01:22
pupnikwhat country01:23
pupnikdoing it on your own or as part of a company01:24
alteregoA bit of both.01:24
alteregoI work a bit by myself, but I have long term contracts with companies that get me to do things for them and their clients.01:24
pupnikgood contacts then... you doing the project management too?  customer side?  or mainly on the grunt side?01:24
alteregoMainly project management and grunt work. I'm the guy they get in when no one else can do it.01:25
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alteregoProbably because of my price tag ^_^01:25
pupniki was doing that stuff for big money back in 200001:26
pupnikthe lies got to me01:26
disqsame here. though i don't like dealing directly with clients01:26
alteregoI'd like to get into R&D but I dunno what.01:26
alteregoYeah, I'm not a fan of clients either :)01:26
alteregoWhich is the nice thing of having proxy businesses.01:26
pupnikmy opinion is that business is 30-40% ass rape01:27
pupnikif you have some kind of talent where you can do honest business, you belong to a lucky few01:27
alteregoI stiff them they stiff the next guy ^_^01:27
pupnikit's the same with car mechanics01:28
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alteregoI think it's just the way the world works,01:28
alteregoI don't really stiff people. I charge a basic £50 p/h01:29
pupnikwell, that's true.  but then rape, murder and robbery are more honest.01:29
pupnikat least then you're not screwing someone while trying to convince them they should be grateful01:29
alteregoThey know that, if they weren't happy paying it. Or didn't think I was worth it they'd employ the idiots they used to that screw everything up :)01:29
pupnikyeah you know what01:29
pupnikthe real money is in milking the government tits01:29
alteregoIncome support?01:30
alteregoYou want to be a Chav?01:30
pupnikbecause the government is the big mafioso01:30
pupniklike Ellison01:30
alteregoAh, civil contracts.01:30
alteregoI'd love to get into that ;)01:30
timtimredthe real money is in finance :)01:30
pupnikbig fat tits01:30
pupnikwell people in irc are not qualified to talk about that stuff01:31
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timtimredalterego, just phone an agency, if you are in or near london it wont take long! :)01:32
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alteregoI like in Cambridge, so not far out ^_^01:33
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* infobot rises from the dead and starts eating people.01:33
timtimredcambridge is a weird outer london IT haven too01:33
timtimredcitrix and ARM are there and then some01:33
alteregoYeah, I love it hear :D01:34
alteregoProbably one of the prettiest/scenic industrial areas in the country.01:34
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alteregoMy first Ruby Maemo app is going to be a decent archive (compression/decompression) utility.01:35
* alterego gets started.01:36
timtimredalterego im pretty near you in chelmsford (relatively, for irc) but commute into the square mile01:36
b52laptopstupid question : maemo will run in another device except nokia n770/800 :d  ?01:36
alteregob52laptop, sure.01:36
b52laptopalterego,  euh for example ?01:37
alteregoI wouldn't mind commuting to London.01:37
alteregob52laptop, google.com01:37
b52laptopalterego,  thanks :)01:37
alterego(Don't know off hand ;)01:37
b52laptopdidn't know that one :d01:37
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alteregoThe amount of research I've put in over the past days I get a little short when people can't be bothered to put the effort in themselves.01:39
b52laptopeuh !01:43
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b52laptopalterego,  i think i have said "thanks for answering " no need to push to thing further ...01:43
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Takperfect for the ITs:
alteregob52laptop, it was just a general comment. I didn't mean anything against you personally.01:47
alteregoMore about my bad temper :P01:47
* b52laptop offer to alterego a cup of tea true TCP paquet :d01:48
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AceadoCan someone tell me wat is safe 2 remove from the app man with the red pill enable?01:56
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* Tak would guess nothing that you can't remove without it enabled01:58
AceadoI mean i have the reb pill enable and i can see everythink installed and wanting 2 know wat is safe 2 remove?02:00
alteregoAceado, why do you want to remove anything?02:01
alteregoYou'd suppose that some things are installed their for a reason.02:01
TakI would say that everything that's "safe" to remove is already removable in blue pill mode02:01
alteregoIf not installed by you that is.02:01
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AceadoWell im in the red mode so are u saying not 2remove anything from there but only on the bue mobe.?02:03
Takthat certainly seems like the safest course of action02:04
AceadoBlue mode02:04
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AceadoIs there anyway 4 me 2 browse my 770 internal memory?02:05
alteregoWhat do you mean browse Aceado?02:07
alteregoAnd what memory?02:07
AceadoThe internal 102:07
AceadoFlash memory02:08
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proctoso what does it mean if when I try to turn my n800 on, it shows the Nokia splash screen, and then just remains black?02:12
proctoI left it on for a while, but I locked the screen and keys and assumed that would keep battery useage low02:13
proctodoes it just mean the battery is slow?02:13
AceadoIts bricked maybe?02:14
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proctoI'm hoping the battery just died02:15
proctooh, so if the battery dies while asleep, this happens?02:15
Takdoes this happen when it's plugged in as well?02:17
proctoI don't know yet02:18
proctoI'm at work, charger's at home02:18
proctoso I'm gonna try it when I get there02:18
Taksounds like the battery's just dead02:18
proctoI really hope the battery's just dead02:18
proctoand not bricked02:18
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proctoguess people only check the chan right before leaving :>02:19
proctoso I'm gonna head home now, too02:19
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sciboyWhat was the cause of the WSoD anyhow?02:55
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sciboyIs it just me or does it look like they're going to be distributing the n800 in more countries this time?03:39
sciboyOn the Aussie Nokia site it's listed as an "upcoming model"03:40
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disqon the turkish site it's listed as the "n800 phone"03:45
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sciboyIf they are, I'm better off holding out until I can get a proper warranty. =P03:49
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NeoStriderhello folks04:42
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NeoStriderhello there05:14
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unique311whats up NeoStrider05:25
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NeoStriderhey unique311!05:27
NeoStridermy memory is weak...did you ever tried maemowizard?05:27
NeoStriderwere you the one who tried it? or it was pupnik?05:27
RadarI hate how opera only loads when it has focus05:30
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unique311maemowizard, not me...05:37
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_Monkeyniihau, NeoStrider05:45
N838901how do i use the application manager to keep my tablet packages up to date?05:45
NeoStriderniihau, _Monkey!05:45
_Monkeyhello, NeoStrider05:45
NeoStriderI guess there is a option on menu to update them05:45
NeoStriderI dont do that often, as I dont have wifi here05:45
NeoStriderwhats up, _Monkey?!05:46
_Monkeyneostrider: i haven't a clue05:46
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NeoStrider_Monkey, are you a user or a developer?05:52
_Monkeyi don't know, neostrider05:52
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unique311free phone calls on the nokia N80006:40
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unique311i will have a tutorial as soon as possible..06:40
unique311if you can't wait.06:41
unique311install that...06:41
unique311   <--- register for an account here06:42
unique311requires you downloading their client in order to setup and account...but uninstall it when you finish setting up your account and run spyware program.06:42
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unique311after you setup your account with freecall, set up account freecall account following 1st. link.06:43
unique311and call anyone.06:43
unique311any landline..06:43
unique311only outbound calls..06:44
NeoStriderand gizmo?06:44
_Monkeyi heard gizmo was sip compliant06:44
unique311well yeah06:44
unique311can also set it up in gizmo06:44
NeoStriderbleh...N800 only06:44
unique311not sure..06:44
unique311install gizmo and give it a go.06:44
unique311i have it setup with the default client that comes with the n80006:45
unique311but if gizmo support can set it up with gizmo.06:45
unique311it works.06:45
NeoStridergot gizmo on my 77006:46
NeoStriderI dont have wifi now06:46
NeoStriderbut I will try it very soon06:46
unique311wifi needed.06:46
unique311going to ITT it...06:46
_Monkeyitt is
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unique311rwhitby, i tried it with freecalls....theirs other sip providers you might want to give it a go with....06:58
unique311other providers06:58
rwhitbyunique311: I have accounts with Gizmo, Nodephone and Voxalot already :-)06:59
rwhitbyI use Gizmo on the n800 almost daily for long calls between Australia and the USA.06:59
unique311nodephone or Vosalot offer free outbound?06:59
rwhitbyNodephone offers free nothing.  Voxalot is part of sipphone.07:00
rwhitbyLooks like I'll get a FreeCall account too :-)07:01
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rwhitbyVoxalot is good for inbound calls.07:02
rwhitbyand you can set it up to route to multiple outbound providers too07:02
unique311free inbounds....07:07
unique311that is what i need now..07:08
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unique311can you recieve calls to you voxalot number rwhitby07:10
NeoStridergood night, fellows07:11
NeoStriderim leaving07:11
NeoStrider1 AM here in Brazil07:11
unique3111212 here in NYC07:12
NeoStriderhere , in Rio de Janeiro, 1:13, actually07:13
unique311brasil got some fine ladies...07:14
unique311one of my good friends from brasil....lovely model07:14
NeoStridernot everygirl07:15
NeoStriderim sure it has as much as NY07:15
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unique311everygirl from NY is from out of town...07:16
NeoStrider...and thats why you have plenty of time to use all this voip stuff =-P07:17
unique311wanna trade places NeoStrider...07:17
NeoStriderohhh....Im sure you dont want that07:17
NeoStriderotherwise I would gladly trade places with you07:17
unique311you right...i don't want to do that....07:18
NeoStriderIm leaving07:18
NeoStridergood night07:18
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unique311someone with th knowledge on how to add news to the planet at  let me know how to do so.07:27
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unique311i have a new discovery....08:04
unique311they provided you with a number...incoming and outgoing phone calls...08:05
unique311i set it up08:05
unique311and is working08:05
unique311instead of Freecalls..use Freedigits...08:05
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colinlhi there09:48
_Monkeyque tal, colinl09:48
colinlis there any doc on how to use the n800 LED?09:49
zuhcolinl: and
colinlthanks a bunch, zuh :)09:53
colinlI see that it's not very power-consumption-friendly, though.09:55
colinlI'll play with that, thanks :)09:55
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hapunique311: and they like to fuck too !10:18
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iDShi guys10:30
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JaffaMorning, all10:36
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geaarumorning, anyone known dbus methods of service?10:51
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timelE61iso, what news sites should a maemo dev read for product feedback?11:46
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X-FadetimelE61i: itt forums?11:54
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skirpeeI'm having trouble with my 770 using DHCP... it's configured to use DHCP, but it thinks it's been assigned a weird IP ( and has no default route or DNS info12:00
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lardmanThat address is an auto assigned one when there's no dhcp server12:01
skirpeeit's worked with other networks using DHCP, but on my home network (wrt54g) it's acting up12:01
* lardman tries to remember the name12:01
skirpeeDHCP definitely works on this network.. I've got 3 other machines connected, including the one I'm using right now12:01
lardmanwell it sounds as if your 770 isn't picking it up for whatever reason12:02
skirpeehmm... sorry, I'm a rookie... I see that zeroconf is networking software for the 770, but is it installed by default? how will I use it?12:03
lardman(zeroconf or avahi/bonjour/whatever the name's changed to this week)12:03
skirpeeI'm googling, but not turning up more than mentions of zeroconf right now12:03
lardmanYou don;t want to use it, it just assigns one of those addresses12:03
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lardmanIf dhcp fails, it falls back to zeroconf12:04
skirpeehmm... don't think my router supports it... was just looking at the wikipedia page :)12:04
lardmanah, perhaps it's not part of zeroconf, just part of IPv4. hmm. Anyway, it's the fall back. See why dhcp isn't working12:05
skirpeethat's the trouble I'm having... does this thing come with xterm out of the box, or do I need to install it? sorry for the super-rookie quesiton12:05
lardmanyou need to install it, look in the package manager12:06
skirpeeokay, cool, thanks12:06
X-Fadeskirpee: on wrt54g sometimes the dhcp daemon dies.. Try rebooting your router..12:06
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skirpeeX-Fade: this machine I'm on now is a laptop which connected via DHCP just a few mins ago... I think it's specific to my 77012:07
lardmanOnce it's assigned you an IP address it could then die12:07
lardmanwithout it affecting you (until your lease expires, and even then your laptop might ignore it - I don;t know enough about dhcp)12:08
skirpeepossible, but unlikely... I've had this 770 for a couple of days now, and it's had this dhcp problem all along, I just haven't had a chance to start investigating til tonight12:08
lardmanah, ok12:08
skirpeecrap, how'm I gonna use the package manager to install bash w/o net access? :)12:09
skirpeeer, xterm12:10
X-Fadeskirpee: what is your bluetooth hostname set to? Maybe you used chars that the dhcp doesn't like?12:10
skirpeehmm good point, checking12:11
skirpeetried changing it to something all-lowercase w/ no spaces, still won't connect on my local network, nor on my neighbor's open network12:14
skirpeeon the neighbor's network it seems to get an ip address and default route, but it thinks the router is also the DNS server12:15
skirpeetho doing a host and then hitting that IP w/ the web browser still fails12:16
lardmanYou could grab the .deb on your laptop and copy it over the usb link12:16
skirpeedoing that now12:17
skirpeeosso-xterm the way to go?12:17
lardmanDo you have a proxy?12:17
skirpeeno proxy, nope12:17
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AD-N770good morning12:20
skirpeeok! I have an xterm running12:20
skirpeeholy hell, there's a lot involved to get root12:21
VladDracall I had to do was installing the dropbear ssh server12:22
* sp3000 counts 4 high-level steps12:22
lardmanskirpee: As you have the usb cable, do the r&d mode thing12:22
skirpeeworking on it now12:23
sp3000e.g.: xterm, redpill, openssh, ssh away12:23
lardmanVladDrac: he doesn't have a network12:23
lardmantho localhost ought not be affected I suppose12:23
lardmanxterm, flasher r&d mode....?12:23
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sp3000...would be another option12:24
sp3000though xterms tend to come from networks12:24
skirpeesp3000: I got xterm installed by copying from my network-connected laptop12:26
skirpeevia usb12:26
skirpeeack... lardman, thanks for your help... I've got to get to bed, I have to be up for work tomorrow12:26
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sp3000sure, not categorically :)12:26
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skirpeeI've got some instructions on installing the flasher, and once I'm root I'll start looking at why dhcp isn't working for me12:27
skirpeefor now, I am crashing, I'm beat12:27
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sp3000what's cras... oh, you are12:27
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sp3000"dhcp fails, user crashes"12:27
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blkhawk[work]any idea how to dump the bootloaders to mmc?12:31
X-Fadeblkhawk[work]: Why don't you just get them from the FIASCO image?12:36
X-Fadeblkhawk[work]: The flasher can extract them for you?12:36
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rebroadhi all. Can I installed Skype on the N800 without upgrading to the latest firmware?13:22
gomia1rebroad: I don't think so, but I don't really know O:-)13:23
rebroadi think the latest firmware has some problems with battery management. ever since i upgraded the battery doesn't seem to last as long as before13:23
rebroadplus latest firmware breaks lcars theme...13:24
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rebroadhmm. someone needs to write a little utility that lets you upgrade the firmware and easily re-import all your settings and installed apps..13:27
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lardmanbattery seems fine to me, what have you installed?13:33
lardmanOr have you left the n800 allowed to autoconnect at will?13:34
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rebroadjust comparing the N800 with latest firmware compared with the one before latest13:34
lardmanvanilla? Oh, mine seems to have better battery life now, just an impression though13:35
rebroadthe release notes did mention that battery management was improved, but to me it seems to have reduced the duration13:36
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pupnik_OWWW I missed a psion netbook pro auction that went for 202 euro on ebay13:50
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rebroaddoes maemo come with md5sum?13:56
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pupnik_Nokia-N800-48:~# md5sum14:12
pupnik_-sh: md5sum: not found14:12
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pupnik_i wonder if anyone has gotten a bluetooth gamepad controller working14:17
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gla55_i wondered that the other day too14:21
JaffaI believe keesj has14:21
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pupnik_You know all someone would have to do is take-apart a BT gamepad and make a custom case that clamps around a pda (on left and right)14:22
pupnik_So you could affix it to a n770, n800 or whatever14:23
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lardmanAnyone know why inline asm labels require a b or f suffix indicating where the label lies? GCC's output doesn't have this, though the labels start with a . could this make a difference?16:30
lardmanrtcm: HowTos look ok to me16:31
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lardmanas do tutorials16:31
lardmanon Firefox 2.0b1 WinXP16:32
rtcmlardman: do they have pictures and are all the command line examples shown?16:32
lardmanrtcm: Can you give me an example url?16:33
Jaffartcm: Yeah, the Maemo 2.0 ones were screwed for me the other day.16:33
rtcmbesides, they have outdated instructions here and there16:33
rtcmshould I file a bug somewhere?16:34
lardmanI see pictures16:34
lardmancommands look a little bad16:34
lardmane.g. Start Scratchbox with the following command:16:34
lardmanNot sure that'll work very well ;)16:34
rtcmlardman: right, that's what I mean16:35
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lardmanThere are other problems with the markup, a bit further down there's a list and items 6 & 7 are all concatenated16:35
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lardmanwhen the commands should be on seperate lines16:35
rtcmyhea, and like linking to a maemo 2.2 minimal rootstrap which doesn't contain the hildon libs etc.16:37
rtcmeventually I figured I needed some other "non-minimal" package16:37
rtcmand found it16:37
rtcmbut it's not a smooth experience...16:38
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lardmanbut yes, it's a bug so you may as well file it, assuming there's not one already16:38
X-Fadelardman: Yeah, if already filed one for that..16:39
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X-Fadelardman: But we'll have to wait a few weeks as they are all on holiday during July..16:39
lardmanX-Fade: Fair enough, just as long as there's one there so someone notices it16:40
X-FadeFinland is closed in July due to holidays. Please come back later ;)16:40
lardmanThough it is a wiki, so we could always do it ourselves, or do we not have access?16:40
lardmanThe UK is closed due to heavy rain and floods, nice summer16:40
X-FadeNo, that documentation is managed by the Nokia documentation team..16:40
rtcmX-Fade: care to point me to a bug# ?16:42
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alteregolardman, hahah16:54
alteregolardman, It's pissing it down! ^_^16:55
lardmanit's stopped here, for 5 minutes at least16:55
alteregoHeh, lucky.16:56
alteregoIt has mellowed to a dizzle at the moment.16:56
alteregoHeh, dizzle .. drizzle!16:58
X-Fadertcm: 1518, 1665,166616:58
timelE61isp3000 got a url for flushing document.write w/o finishing script execution?16:59
pupnik  something like this, hacked to fit a 770/80017:00
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sp3000timelE61i: not offhand17:01
lardman|afkit'll start again here as I'm about to go outside ;)17:01
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pupnikaha Bluetooth gamepad plus nokia - hacked with kbdd profile17:04
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gla55_seems nice17:10
pupnik"The Chainpus BGP-100 runs on a single AAA battery and can last around 3 hours of continuous use."17:12
pupnikI'd definitely drop in an AA or two rechargeables instead17:12
__Nikos__i ping the n800 device on a local wireless network and i get times around 100ms...The ping on a laptop gives me times<1ms. Is it normal?17:13
pupniki get 2-9ms17:13
pupniknokia 77017:13
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__Nikos__pupnik: I try to delivel udp packets and i experience a hell of a drop there a way to boost the speed on the device?17:15
X-Fade__Nikos__: 64 bytes from icmp_seq=51 ttl=64 time=2.77 ms17:16
zyxulnag1__Nikos__: I noticed the same too there is a lot of udp packet loss with the n800 you need to try and reduce the noise in your signal as much as you can17:17
zyxulnag1the wireless card on the device is very bad17:17
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__Nikos__zyxulnag1: can you have a wired connection with n800?17:18
X-FadeIf I do a 'ping -i 0.01 -c 1000' I get:17:19
zyxulnagadon't think so17:19
X-Fade1000 packets transmitted, 1000 received, 0% packet loss, time 8996ms17:19
X-Fadertt min/avg/max/mdev = 2.387/3.165/57.901/2.809 ms, pipe 517:19
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zyxulnagaas far as I know there is no way to go wired on the n80017:19
zyxulnagayou could with the n77017:19
__Nikos__I am wondering how can the skype work so well17:22
zyxulnagathey have some pretty cool algorithms that wrap over udp in skype17:23
zyxulnagaso you don't feel the packet loss17:23
zyxulnagaand I think skype also uses tcp in some cases but I am not sure17:23
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__Nikos__when i run my app with ssh i have very low packet loss...when i run it on the device a experience a great loss???17:34
zyxulnagathat's impossible17:35
zyxulnagassh uses tcp17:35
__Nikos__am i missing something?17:35
alteregoskype uses UDP mostly. It uses UDP to get around routers and firewalls.17:36
trevarthanDoes anyone know if gstreamer for maemo seek accurately within vbr mp3 files?17:36
pupnikmaybe there's a hardware problem __Nikos__17:36
alteregoOr at least that's what I thought. I might be wrong. I'm not sure if you could do the trickery with TCP/IP.17:36
__Nikos__pupnik: what is the difference between running with ssh or on the device?17:37
pupniki don't have an n800.  it just works for me.  very slow scp transfers though17:37
pupnikslower than a floppy drive :/17:38
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__Nikos__pupnik: Either you launch an application through ssh or local xterm the app will run on the device17:39
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pupniki run a lot of stuff through ssh17:41
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disqi should find a way to earn a living off opensource.17:46
mgedminwhat's for?17:46
mgedminI installed it, but the media player still doesn't recognize oggs17:47
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inzdisq, 1. open source, 2. ???, 3. profit!17:49
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JaffaHmm, do I bother replying to maemo-users to explain why Ted Tso's almost always right? ;-)17:50
disqinz: very of you17:50
jpt9not sure if this would be horribly annoying, and everyone will probably tell me to do it myself...17:50
jpt9but can someone compile frotz for IT2007HE?17:51
jpt9(the commandline version)17:51
jpt9yes, I know, there's GFrotz.  I don't like it.17:51
* jpt9 likes Bluetooth keyboards :-)17:51
* jpt9 is using one right now with XChat on an n770 :-D17:51
pupnikwhich xchat runs on it2007he?17:52
pupnikit should be in the repos darnit17:52
jpt9it's either on, linked to from, or in the repos....17:52
jpt9(or in one of the repos I've added from installing some other program.  not sure)17:52
pupniki don't think we have a command to search which repo supplies which package do we?17:53
jpt9there isn't...17:53
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pupnikapt-cache show or policy doesn't, iirc17:53
jpt9there is a site, however...17:53
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jpt9it's quite nice.17:53
pupnikwow, thanks!17:54
jpt9you're welcome,17:54
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jpt9my brother told me about it, though; you'd probably want to thank him :-)17:54
jpt9anyway, can anyone compile frotz?17:55
pupniklemme check17:55
pupniki only have an it2006 environment, so you'll have to force the install17:56
jpt9will it still run?17:56
jpt9also, you can just send me a binary.17:56
jpt9(unless there's more to it...)17:56
jpt9(man this BT keyboard's awesome!)17:56
jpt9it actually makes IRC on an n770 practical.17:57
* jpt9 wants an n785 or something.... the case and design of the n770 with the improved specs of the n800 :-)17:57
jpt9yes re: there's more or yes re: just the binary?17:57
jpt9opening in the browser now...17:58
pupnikwget works too17:59
jpt9except that's gfrotz...17:59
jpt9(at least according to the app manager)17:59
jpt9hasn't finished installing yet...17:59
pupniknice - you can pick the menu17:59
jpt9yeah... that's gfrotz.  i wanted frotz (the plain command-line version).18:00
pupnikever play A Mind Forever Voyaging?18:00
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jpt9a bit.18:00
jpt9quite fun.18:00
pupnikmy favorite ever18:00
jpt9that's the kind of text adventure I like -- lots of exploring.18:01
pupnikyeah - it was really a novel18:01
jpt9anyway, is there any chance you could build the CLI version of frotz?18:01
jpt9you're awesome.18:01
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pupnikoops, can't run scratchbox on this kernel - vdso bug18:04
pupnik echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled  oh that was easy18:05
jpt9ever noticed that if the brightness is set to minimum on an n770, the light flickers as the wi-fi is used?18:06
pupnikyeah sometimes18:06
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_Monkeyhi, NeoStrider18:10
NeoStrideranyone uses the garage here?18:10
NeoStriderhey pupnik18:10
pupnikhi NeoStrider18:10
jpt9thanks.  opening now...18:10
NeoStrideryou tried maemowizard some time ago, right? (my memory is very weak)18:10
NeoStriderand it didnt worked with gregalle SDK18:11
NeoStriderbut I tried here and it worked flawlessly18:11
NeoStriderwith Gregalle SDK18:11
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pupnikI can't remember what went wrong18:11
NeoStriderneither do I18:12
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NeoStriderI guess there was some missing files18:12
NeoStridernow I want to install the mono devkit =-)18:12
NeoStrideranyone knows how to configure the garage18:13
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pupnikjpt9: heh, where did it install the frotz binary i wonder18:15
jpt9not in the path, I can tell you that :-)18:15
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jpt9i have a ~/bin directory.  i'll just stick it there.18:16
pupnikok that command is in the postinst under /debian18:17
pupnikjust gonna change the package to install to /usr/bin18:18
_Monkeyrumour has it also is there a nice tutorial for setting up a python dev environment for the n80018:18
jpt9<insert opening to zork1 displayed in an xterm on an n770> :-)18:18
jpt9it works.18:18
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pupnikon the device i also did:  mv /usr/games/* /usr/bin && rmdir /usr/games && ln -s /usr/bin /usr/games18:20
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jpt9what will that do, exactly?18:20
pupnikputs all the /usr/games stuff into /usr/bin and makes a symbolic link from /usr/games to /usr/bin18:21
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pupnikjust to avoid this in future18:21
jpt9should i run that?18:21
pupnikno need18:22
pupnikthis is great.  i don't have time for infocom games but it's wonderful to have on the tablet18:22
jpt9did you update the package or something?18:22
pupnikyes, but the only change is moving it from /usr/games to /usr/bin18:24
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jpt9yay.  it works now.  you should post that on maemo.18:27
jpt9that'd be cool.18:27
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jpt9thanks for the build, pupnik.18:30 going to work18:31
NeoStridersee you later, guys!18:31
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jpt9the n770 doesn't seem to know the layout of an apple bluetooth keyboard particularly well.18:34
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pupnikgah gfrotz is smaller than my frotz package18:41
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jpt9who cares. frotz has more features.18:43
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trevarthanDoes anyone know of an audio player for linux that supports bookmarks? i.e. saving your position in an audio book, then coming back to it later? I'm looking for something to port...18:45
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unique311CHECK that out..18:46
unique311posted it around midnight...18:46
unique311free phone calls on the N800....18:46
unique311possibly with gizmo for 770 users...18:47
Tu13es_eh, too much work18:47
Tu13es_I ended up just buying a year of skype18:47
unique311too much work.18:47
unique311install the new sip client...18:47
Tu13es_it's a pain to have different services for incoming and outgoing18:47
unique311and get a FreeDigits account....18:47
Tu13es_and to be limited by the number of minutes you have etc18:48
Tu13es_plus who knows how long these free places will be open for18:48
Tu13es_just look at sunrocket18:48
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Tu13esI'm not saying it's not for anyone, just not for me18:48
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unique311it wasn't too much work for me...took maybe 10 minutes at most to set up everything.  installing the sip client, getting an account from freedigits and setting it up.18:50
unique311FreeCalls only offer free outbound.18:50
unique311freedigits offer a free number that allows you to recieve inbound calls..and allows you to make outbound calls free..18:51
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Tu13esfreedigits says " Outgoing Minutes No* *Outbound calling rates apply."18:52
blkhawkany hints on what is needed to compile a kernel for 770?18:52
blkhawkI mean what patches to i need to get besides the vanilla sources18:53
blkhawkand where can i get the default .config18:53
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pupnikty unique311 i'll look at that19:06
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pupnik"When ARM announced Neon in October of 2004, it said chips supporting Neon instructions could decode an MP3 stream in 8-10MHz"19:13
pupnikmore A8 Cortex porn...19:13
blkhawkis there a overwiew of where allthe stuff is in flash? I need to dump the bootloaders of my n77019:13
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pupnikdon't know blkhawk19:19
pupnik"The Cortex-A8 achieves a BDTIsimMark2000/MHz score of 7.6. The ARM1176 achieves a BDTIsimMark2000? score of 1200 at 335 MHz, or 3.6 BDTIsimMark2000/MHz."19:20
blkhawkpupnik: thanks anyway19:22
blkhawkmy problem is that if i screw this up then it will be bricked19:22
blkhawkneeding a reflash19:22
blkhawkvia the jtag probably19:23
blkhawkand thats tools i do not have19:23
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pupnikWow the OMAP3430 was shipping a year ago.19:25
zuhblkhawk: Why do you need that?19:25
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blkhawkzuh: my N770 is a prototype19:28
blkhawkthe board is different19:28
blkhawkmight have different flash addresses19:28
blkhawkI have been warned19:28
blkhawkthat it "might" be different19:28
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pupnikblkhawk: it still has IT2005 on it?19:28
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blkhawkpupnik: it has it2005SE on it now19:29
blkhawkI upgraded it from the debug code that was on it19:29
blkhawkpupnik: exactly19:29
blkhawkIf i can dump the xloader and the NOLO then i can do a binaery compare19:30
pupnikMotorola 7450 (Powermac G4): 1324 Dhrystone 2.1 MIPS @ 733 mhz19:30
blkhawksince they stay the same for os200519:30
pupnikIf you're working for a company, i'd think the time you are spending on this is worth more than the cost of a new or used nokia 77019:31
blkhawkbut since arm to armel is switched in the loader (wither the x-loader or the NOLO) i need to reflash those too going to os 200619:31
blkhawkpupnik: its all very unofficially - and i will probably be getting a n80019:31
blkhawksomewhen at the end of august19:32
blkhawkbut i want to start the project now19:32
pupnik"The worst example of synthetic benchmark abuse is Dhrystone MIPS. Silicon and compiler optimizations of Dhyrstone MIPS have rendered it virtually useless, and no one has made the effort to update it. In addition, Dhrystone was written in the days before on-die caches, so its small size makes it an incredibly poor measure of system performance."19:33
blkhawkso any thought s on where in flash the loader is probably and how to get it? I have some ideas but anything might be helpful19:34
blkhawkmy next step is setting up a toolchain and installing the newest linux kernel19:34
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pupnikI think that stuff is closed source19:35
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blkhawkpupnik: i just need the binary19:35
blkhawkI will do a compare19:35
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blkhawkif its different from all the other it2005 loarders i know i am sol19:35
blkhawkif they are the same then i can flash away19:36
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blkhawkfranky i do not seewhy a prototype would use different flas addresses to boot19:36
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blkhawkbut without any way of flashing it cold  I do not want to risk breaking it19:37
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blkhawkis anything speaking against just using the newest linux kernel?19:44
pupnikyeah that might be a good idea19:46
pupnikif you can drop a new kernel on it, then upgrade the os19:46
blkhawkpupnik: the problem is the binaery format19:46
blkhawkI can upgrade the os but it would mean building it from scratch19:47
blkhawkits like this x-loader->NOLO->Kernel->initfs19:47
blkhawkxloader supports serial flashing19:47
blkhawkand NOLO supports usb19:48
blkhawkthe bineaery format gets switched in xloader or NOLO19:48
blkhawkProbably x-loader tho19:48
blkhawkmeans if it does not work i have no way of getting the old boot loader back on it19:49
pupnikhmm ...19:49
blkhawkthe idea is - I dump xloader and NOLO from my curent setup19:49
X-Fadeblkhawk: So that means that your best bet is to begin with NOLO ;)19:49
blkhawkcompare them to the vanilla loaders19:50
blkhawkX-Fade: well it would ifi knew how to do a serial flash :P19:50
blkhawkIt is remotely possible that i figure that out19:50
blkhawki know one thing tho: all the boot loaders are different in it200619:51
blkhawkso its a save bet that the binaery format gets switched in x-loader19:51
X-FadeDo you think the bootloader part in the image isn't the same as flashed in your device?19:52
blkhawkthat leaves me no way to test it19:52
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blkhawkits a possibility19:52
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blkhawksince i have been warned that this might be thecase19:52
pupnikHah. "Intel's initial "Tolapai" SoC design is based on a Pentium M core clocked at 600MHz to 1.2GHz, with integrated external memory controller and I/O peripheral interfaces. Its power envelope would range between 13 and 25 Watts".   Phlblblblt.  Intel sucks.  x86 sucks.19:52
blkhawkso if i can dumpthem and compare them to the ones i have from the vanilaa releases then i can make sure19:52
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X-Fadeblkhawk: No way to just dd from the device?19:53
blkhawkX-Fade: sure19:53
blkhawkbut from Where19:53
blkhawki could probably dd the whole flash19:53
X-Fade/dev/mtd0 perhaps?19:54
X-Fadeor /dev/mtdblock019:54
blkhawki am not sure where the loaders live19:55
X-FadeYou should even be able to use mtd tools to flash it from the device:)19:55
X-Fadewell the filesystem is mtdblock419:55
X-Fadethe kernel is 3..19:55
X-FadeSo what are the other?19:55
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blkhawkyou sure19:55
blkhawk3 is initfs i think19:56
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X-Fadeehm yes..19:56
blkhawkit sure adds up19:56
blkhawk2 is kernel19:56
blkhawkand 1 and 0 are the bootloaders19:56
X-FadeSo 0 and 1 are xloader and NOLO19:57
blkhawki am unsure however if they are really behind them19:57
blkhawk0 might be the whole flash19:57
X-FadeWell, just dump it and check its size?19:57
X-FadeNokia-N800-26:~# dd if=/dev/mtdblock0 of=test19:58
X-Fade256+0 records in19:58
X-Fade256+0 records out19:58
X-FadeHmm got to go.. Talk to you later..19:58
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alteregoUrgh .. ruby osso is being a b*tch :(20:03
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* alterego gives up20:10
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proctohow do I make the virtual keyboard stop showing up when I press Enter on my BT keyboard?20:24
proctoIt worked fine before20:25
proctoi.e. two days ago20:25
proctothere's no option to turn off virtual kb from showing up in any settings I've found20:25
blkhawkmtdblock 0 contains the loaders20:25
proctoI've tried all 3 of the hardware keyboard layout20:25
proctosetting bluetooth on and off did nothing either20:26
proctoit wouldn't pop up the virtual keyboard at all, when the bt kb was connected20:26
pupnikprocto: maybe you can use  maemo-gtk-im-switch xim20:27
proctoI'll try20:29
proctothat didn't do it20:30
pupniki've had occasional thumbboard popup issues when using bt20:30
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proctopupnik: looks like it magically fixed itself...20:36
proctooh well!20:36
pupnikfanoush says that an xbox controller could be hooked up to 770 via usb20:36
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guardiananyone ever tried rendering antialiased lines on the n800 ?20:37
guardiandon't know where to start20:37
pupnikdo you want an AA line algorithm?20:38
guardiani would like to render antialiased catmull rom splines20:39
pupnikneat - what for?  vector art?20:39
blkhawkx-loader is clearly different20:40
blkhawkonly a few bytes20:40
blkhawkbut i gues thats all it would take20:40
blkhawkmight just be config options tho20:41
pupnikguardian, your algo will have a true line position for each step, adjacent pixels then are shaded depending on distance from the true x,y of the line at that point.  Wu's algorithm is a simple way to do that, your renderer has two cases "mostly vertical" and "mostly horizontal" and then weights pixel-pairs20:45
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guardianah i should have thought of this site :)20:46
colinlwhat can cause the appearance of a stupid "top_application" HildonBanner at the startup of an app?20:53
proctopupnik: would maemo-gtk-im-switch xim cause my power button to stop working?20:53
pupniknever did for me20:54
proctoI modified mce.ini20:54
proctoand systemui.xml20:54
proctobut I've since reverted chances on mce.ini20:54
proctoand it completely does nothing20:54
pupniki never changed those20:55
pupnikwhat for?20:55
proctoI wanted to enable soft shutdown20:55
proctoon the long press20:55
proctothen I decided it would be fine to just add soft shutdown to the menu20:55
proctowhich is easy, since that item is only commented out20:55
proctoI thought it might be premissions20:56
proctoand set mce.ini to be all readable20:56
procto(I edited as root)20:56
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rittyan1hm I wonder if it's possible to use cyrillic kb layout with scim + compose key for X :|20:58
proctook, I just used the poweroff command20:59
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proctopupnik: after powering off manually, the button now seems to work21:00
proctoat least for long press21:00
proctothis stuff's mysterious!21:00
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pau_gmhi all21:01
blkhawkwhx is there no arch/arm/configs/n770_defconfig file in the current kerneel sources?21:01
pau_gmi just feel stupid asking this, but, there is some wiki space or page collecting themes for maemo? just found but nothing in Enlgish21:01
blkhawklike it says in the wiki21:02
proctopupnik: ok, everything fixed21:04
proctopupnik: what soft poweroff does is it does roughly what closing the 770 cse does21:04
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proctopupnik: since there is no direct equivalent21:04
proctopupnik: basically shuts everything down except wifi, and has fast powerup21:04
blkhawkis there a place to get the sources of the kernels?21:08
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sp3000apt-get source rx-34-kernel21:12
sp3000er, kernel-source-rx-3421:12
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keesjpau_gm: I am not aware of such page in enligh,21:16
blkhawksp3000: from normal debian?21:16
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blkhawkkeesj: does that work for 1.1 too?21:20
blkhawker it 200521:21
keesjyou can try to find the sources using apt-cache search kernel | grep source21:21
keesjthere are also good wiki pages , specialy for older relases :p21:22
keesjthis is a nice starting point  (also contains a kernel compile howto)21:22
blkhawkkeesj: ya i need to sort it all out21:23
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blkhawkMy problems are a bit "special"21:23
sp3000why does that hide the relevant content by defaul?21:23
sp3000the relevant content being the links to the tutorials21:23
* sp3000 sighs21:23
blkhawkreally just need a crosscompiler and the right sources ;)21:24
trevarthanwow. python's divmod() is pretty slow on my n800.....21:24
* blkhawk reads21:24
blkhawksigh - this is about 20 pages og hideon stuff i do not need - and a lot of bora stuff which i assume is 3.021:25
keesjblkhawk: depending on your sbox install you might want to read the 3.0 kernel howto and adapt that to the older kernel21:25
blkhawkI haven't setup anything yet21:26
keesjtrevarthan: isn't it just mod that is slow on arm?21:26
trevarthanis it? I didn't know that.21:26
sp3000math is hard21:26
blkhawkI assume doing sb-conf select SDK_ARMEL with SDK_ARM will get me rthe right toolchain21:26
* sp3000 wonders why the front page links to bothe tutorials and documentation, when documentation has tutorials right behind it21:27
keesjblkhawk: it depends what version of the sdk you install21:28
trevarthanIs there a better way to convert seconds into minutes:seconds than this then? current_time   = "%2d:%02d" % divmod(int(manager.mplayer.seconds),60)21:28
blkhawkkeesj: sigh21:29
keesjthis was the answer I got when asking the same kind of question
blkhawkkeesj: i am happy with the newest version as long as it can compile to ARM21:30
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* sp3000 wonders why the documentation font size is huge21:30
* sp3000 gives up on wondering21:30
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trevarthankeesj: and why isn't that done for you in the compiler? :)21:30
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* sp3000 reneges21:31
* sp3000 wonders which one of the two lists, the one in navigation or the one in content, is supposed to be the actual link list on
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trevarthanow. my head hurts now....21:34
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* keesj realy still wonders why debian is considered a boot21:35
keesjI need to start understanding that pretty soom , or I must give up21:35
||cwa boot?21:36
`0660a boat? :)21:37
||cwdebian is footwear?21:37
trevarthankeesj: I must be doing something wrong. When I try that I get plug in n=200 and s=60. I'm expecting m=20, but I get m=200...21:41
blkhawkanyihing speaking against using the newest compiler?21:45
trevarthanit's python. no control over that.21:46
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blkhawkfor scratchbox i mean ;)21:47
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trevarthannm, I screwed up the numbers...21:50
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rittyan1is there a way to have some kind of a ... xorg.conf maybe? I want to setup en/ru kb settings, and switch them with alt+shift21:57
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pupniknot through xorg.conf. maybe search with keyword "locales" rittyan122:04
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trevarthan:) I thought the divmod call was slowing it down, but then I ran cProfiler and it turns out that it's something else. divmod is fast enough. man... what would I do without cProfiler?22:11
blkhawkis there ANY reason why the rootstraps for 1.1 and 1.0 cannot be downloaded from the repository?22:12
keesjtrevarthan: good news. cProfiler is a Phython profiler?22:12
rittyan1pupnik, locales are about dates etc + default encoding. how it is related to keyboard input? :|22:13
trevarthanyeah, I've been using it religiously ever since I started developing Kagu. It's really handy.22:14
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blkhawkwho manages the maemo repository?22:22
alteregoAnyone know a few common reasons why a call to osso_initialize will segfault?22:22
keesjblkhawk: did you try
blkhawkI need the 1.1 rootstrap and the damn webserver is misconfigured22:22
keesjI followed the Maemo dev root filesystems link and it works22:23
blkhawkyes - guess what - my MAC addy isn't valid22:23
keesjyou dont' need a mac foor developers root fs22:24
blkhawki need the rootstrap22:24
blkhawknot rootfs22:24
blkhawkor is that the same?22:25
* blkhawk is confused ;)22:25
blkhawkso who do i poke about this22:28
blkhawkah shucks maybe it will work without it22:30
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rittyan1is here anyone involved into maemocjk?23:10
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blkhawkgah! this scarchbox thing drives me bonkers23:12
blkhawkwhy cant i just compile the kernelsource for arm and i am done23:12
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pupnikwell bootloaders usually need to be modified/configured to point to newly installed kernels, right?23:21
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blkhawkpupnik: wellyes23:26
blkhawkpupnik: however i did not replace them when upgrading to 1.123:26
blkhawkpupnik: did I mention the scratchbox setup is driving me bonkers?23:27
pupniknot the setup23:27
blkhawkpupnik: yes the setup - since i need a fairly old setup its all very very hard to get the right parts23:28
pupnikoh right23:28
* blkhawk is downgrading to scratchbox 0.9.823:28
pupniki deleted my os2005 stuf23:28
blkhawkya everybody did :(23:28
blkhawki wish i could relyably test if i can flash the bootloaders23:29
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keesjblkhawk: If you think it's your lucky day you might want to try my "installer" for 2.2 and 3.123:42
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blkhawkkeesj: well but don't i need 1.1?23:45
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