| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| CountDown | How do I change the device name of the N800? I can't find it anywhere. | 00:08 |
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| gomiam | CountDown: that should be available at the Control Panel | 00:17 |
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| CountDown | gomiam: I looked all around, but missed it... can you be more specific. | 00:20 |
| gomiam | It looks like you can change it at the Bluetooh configuration option in the Control Panel | 00:21 |
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| gomiam | just on top of "Connectivity" | 00:21 |
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| CountDown | Thanks. Strange place to put it. | 00:22 |
| gomiam | not so strange, if you think about it. | 00:22 |
| gomiam | Bluetooth is the only protocol that really needs the system to have a recognizable name | 00:22 |
| gomiam | (in order to set links with other Bluetooth devices) :-) | 00:22 |
| CountDown | Considering the wireless interface, file manager, etc use the device name as well, I'd think it would be under something more general, like About Device. | 00:23 |
| gomiam | the WiFi interfaces uses the device name? | 00:23 |
| gomiam | I thought it was always wlan0 :-)= | 00:23 |
| gomiam | you are right about the file manager, though. | 00:24 |
| CountDown | I should say the SSH server. | 00:24 |
| gomiam | oh, you mean the N800 host name | 00:24 |
| gomiam | yes, it should be somewhere else, then :-) | 00:25 |
| CountDown | Thanks for the help! | 00:25 |
| gomiam | Perhaps we should file a bug against that | 00:25 |
| gomiam | you are welcome. | 00:25 |
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| CountDown | Where would a bug be filed? | 00:25 |
| CountDown | Ah, bugs.maemo.org | 00:26 |
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| seattleweb | anyone home? | 00:37 |
| seattleweb | anyone there...? | 00:38 |
| zuh | seattleweb: I'm home, but not there | 00:41 |
| seattleweb | right on... | 00:43 |
| seattleweb | so has anyone out there had success in setting up an n800 to boot from an EXTERNAL SD/MMC? | 00:43 |
| CountDown | gomiam: I just filed it as bug 1659. | 00:44 |
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| rwhitby | seattleweb: http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/n800/n800-initial-setup.html | 00:46 |
| seattleweb | yeah... i came across that last week... | 00:47 |
| rwhitby | haven't tried it on the new firmware yet | 00:48 |
| seattleweb | i'll give that a whirl instead of following the thread http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4053 | 00:48 |
| seattleweb | hmmm... i've got the new firmware.... i'll give it a try | 00:48 |
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| seattleweb | one thing I've noticed is that /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ is actually /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.18-omap1/ | 00:50 |
| _Monkey | Hmm. No matches for that, seattleweb. | 00:50 |
| seattleweb | matches for...? | 00:50 |
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| CountDown | I'm trying to install python package on my N800 that requires GCC to build. Where can I find GCC? | 01:07 |
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| seattleweb | the maemo sdk i think is the only way | 01:07 |
| CountDown | You mean through scratchbox? | 01:08 |
| seattleweb | yup | 01:08 |
| CountDown | Hmmm... I did this a year ago and I don't think I used scratchbox. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly. | 01:08 |
| CountDown | Do I just copy over the files once they've compiled, or is there a more elegant way to do it? | 01:09 |
| seattleweb | not entirely sure... just bought my n800 last week and havent had time yet to dive in 100% to scratchbox | 01:11 |
| alterego | Why don't you use the prepackaged binaries? | 01:12 |
| CountDown | alterego: I can't find the prepackaged binary. I'm trying to install PyUSB and it needs to build against libusb and python, both of which I already have installed. | 01:15 |
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| alterego | Aha | 01:17 |
| alterego | In which case you're going to need to use scratchbox and do it yourself. | 01:17 |
| alterego | You should make some precompiled packages yourself too ;) | 01:18 |
| alterego | But don't ask me how. I've not crossed that bridge yet ^_^ | 01:18 |
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| Xark | Hello. Does anybody know why there aren't native ports of binutils and gcc for the N800? It seems to have more than enough speed to make them useful. | 01:23 |
| * Xark spent years working on Linux with a < 100Mhz CPU and 16MB or so. | 01:24 | |
| CountDown | Xark: I was just asking that myself. Can we confirm that there is no GCC? | 01:24 |
| seattleweb | FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 01:24 |
| Xark | Well, I have gcc working, but its not a great port. | 01:24 |
| seattleweb | thanx rwhitby man............. | 01:24 |
| seattleweb | I owe you a brew | 01:24 |
| seattleweb | like a retard, I overlooked one important thing.... bootmenu.conf | 01:25 |
| seattleweb | all good now | 01:25 |
| CountDown | Xark: Is your GCC port available? | 01:25 |
| Xark | CountDown: I just installed some SDK armel packages and it mostly works (occasional internal compiler errors when using -O1 or -O2). | 01:25 |
| CountDown | Xark: Oh, which packages? | 01:25 |
| Xark | CountDown: I started with some obsolete info on a forum. If you install 3.2 libs then these instructions are OK... | 01:26 |
| Xark | CountDown: Let me find the link... | 01:26 |
| AdmFubar | quick question , how do i contact the maemo.or site maintainers? having a problem with the rss feed, keep getting the same few feed articles sent from one contributor. | 01:26 |
| CountDown | AdmFubar: Perhaps submit a website bug at bugs.maemo.org | 01:27 |
| Xark | CountDown: Look here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=51696#post51696 | 01:29 |
| CountDown | Xark: Thanks. | 01:29 |
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| AdmFubar | I'' give it a whirl...but was hoping for something a bit more direct... Thanks CD.... | 01:30 |
| Xark | CountDown: Now that I have an old gcc-3.4 (and g++) working I am trying to build a new "fresh" toolchain that will target armv6l. | 01:30 |
| seattleweb | niiice... make is compilable thereafter? | 01:30 |
| CountDown | AdmFubar: They're in Finland, that is direct. :) | 01:30 |
| Xark | CountDown: I am finding it challenging since there is little info on Maemo toolchain (everybody seems to use x86 cross compile with prebuilt compilers) | 01:31 |
| CountDown | Xark: Yeah... I don't know why that is. Seems like you'd want both. | 01:32 |
| Xark | CountDown: Also it appears the N800 binaries aren't using all the features of the newer CPU (unless I am mistaken). | 01:32 |
| rwhitby | seattleweb: I'll have a Coopers Pale Ale please. | 01:32 |
| rwhitby | Xark: look in OpenEmbedded for a built-from-source toolchain for the n800 | 01:33 |
| seattleweb | Countdown: are the 3.2 libs in a repository? | 01:33 |
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| Xark | rwhitty: Cool, I will (but I have already extensively googled). | 01:34 |
| seattleweb | rwhitby: done | 01:34 |
| CountDown | seattleweb: No idea. | 01:34 |
| seattleweb | i'll look around | 01:34 |
| Xark | CountDown: If you try to follow that forum post, one he missed downloading a package and two like I mentioned check the 3.2 repository for libs (since using older libs causes issues). | 01:35 |
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| Xark | CountDown: aFTER A FEW TRIES i GOT ALL THE PACKAGES INSTALLING WITHOUT ANY CONFLICTS OR (SIGNIFICANT) TRICKERY. | 01:35 |
| Xark | ACTION S | 01:35 |
| CountDown | Xark: Will do. I might check out the OpenEmbedded site as well. G'luck. | 01:35 |
| * Xark is using a crappy bluetooth keyboard with far too few keys. :-) | 01:36 | |
| rwhitby | Xark: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/conf/machine/nokia800.conf | 01:37 |
| * Xark also highly recommends moving the root filesystem to a MMC if you want to use N800 as a Linux box. (much faster and roomy). | 01:37 | |
| Xark | rwhitty: Awesome, thanks. | 01:37 |
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| rwhitby | dunno whether it is version compatible with the vendor libraries thouogh | 01:38 |
| rwhitby | ask koen in #oe about it if you have questions | 01:38 |
| rwhitby | (I've never used it myself) | 01:38 |
| rwhitby | Xark: s/tt/tb/ in my nick | 01:39 |
| Xark | rwhitby: Yeah, thats one of the issues I am encountering. I can build a new binutils, but its not happy with some libs (ld.do-linux IIRC). | 01:39 |
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| Xark | rwhitby: Sorry, N800 isn't the ideal IRC platform (with crappy keyboard and squinting eyes). | 01:40 |
| rwhitby | Xark: np - I know the feeling. | 01:40 |
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| rwhitby | you can to tab completion on nicks in x-chat though | 01:41 |
| rwhitby | s/to/do/ | 01:41 |
| infobot | rwhitby meant: you can do tab completion on nicks in x-chat though | 01:41 |
| * Xark goes to check the link... | 01:41 | |
| Xark | rwhitby: I am trying sirc (so I can screen in with ssh). Xchat is decent though... | 01:42 |
| * Xark moves over to his laptop and ssh... | 01:42 | |
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| Xark | rwhitby: Hmm, so how does one use a .conf file (I am new with Debian style Linux)? Does openembedded have prebuilt packages in their repository? | 01:47 |
| CountDown | Xark: I have no idea. I was wondering that myself. | 01:48 |
| rwhitby | Xark: you will need to install and build openembedded. that is a steep learning curve in itself. See www.openembedded.org - if you are not comfortable to compiling distributions from source and using cross compilers, then best to try another avenue. There are no prebuilt packages for n800 as far as I know. | 01:49 |
| Xark | CountDown: Just thought I would ask first before I start digging around. I would be quite happy with just a clue about what binutils options the N800 requires. | 01:49 |
| Xark | rwhitby: OK. | 01:49 |
| Xark | So it appears that OpenEmbedded is another scratchbox-y kind of thing. | 01:52 |
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| rwhitby | Xark: yep, but even more complicated for the first time user | 01:53 |
| rwhitby | (due to it's versatility and range of different platforms that it builds for) | 01:54 |
| rwhitby | allow at least a month before you would feel comfortable with it | 01:54 |
| seattleweb | sounds like fun | 01:54 |
| rwhitby | (and that's for an experienced developer) | 01:54 |
| Xark | rwhitby: I see. Still thats much for the link. At least I can probably see how they are building the toolchain (which is my current issue - as I have a compiler suitable for a bootstrap). | 01:55 |
| Xark | rwhitby: Er, thanks much... | 01:55 |
| rwhitby | Xark: make use of the people in #oe - they know lots about what toolchains are used for which devices | 01:55 |
| seattleweb | btw... n800 running noticable faster from sd boot partition | 01:55 |
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| eugene | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ sounds interesting | 02:22 |
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| alterego | Interesting .. | 02:24 |
| alterego | My SDK isn't theming applications correctly. Anyone heard of this before? | 02:25 |
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| alterego | This is annoying. I bet my Ruby bindings actually work. I just can't test them ^_^ | 02:30 |
| alterego | Maybe I should re-install scratchbox or someting. | 02:31 |
| alterego | Maybe a restart will fix it :S | 02:33 |
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| alterego | Okay, I was being a giant idiot and forgot 'run-standalone.sh' ^_^ | 02:45 |
| alterego | Ruby-Maemo works!!! | 02:45 |
| alterego | I'm so happy I could cry. | 02:46 |
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| alterego | Bed time :) | 02:49 |
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| CountDown | Is there a way to enable USB host mode on the N800 without reflashing? | 03:12 |
| Xark | CountDown: Hmm, I read a post from a Nokia employee that claimed that the hardware didn't support USB OTG (i.e., host mode). Where did you read its possible (even with a reflash)? :) | 03:14 |
| CountDown | The N800 hardware doesn't support USB host mode? | 03:15 |
| CountDown | Xark, where did you see this? | 03:16 |
| Xark | CountDown: Right here -> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/14683#14683 | 03:16 |
| Xark | Its from January, so perhaps its mistaken, but I was just googling and found a few places that mentioned that it didn't work on N800 (for example one project is sticking with N770 because of that [among other reasons]). | 03:18 |
| CountDown | Xark: I think that's referring to the fact that the N800 doesn't suppy power to the USB port. Neither does the 770, but I got it working on that. | 03:18 |
| CountDown | Hmmm, that might be bad news for me if it's true. | 03:19 |
| Xark | CountDown: Hmm, looking around a bit more this sounds mildly promising, so perhaps you are correct. -> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/21371 | 03:21 |
| CountDown | Xark: Well, that was my excitement for the day. Thanks. :) | 03:23 |
| Xark | CountDown: Hehe. I am OK for the moment with a 4GB internal MMC with the root system moved to it on ext2 (about 3GB free with a ton of crap downloaded). Not amazed at SDHC class 4 speed, but its better than the old 1GB card I was using (and way zippier than compressed jffs on flash). | 03:25 |
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| Wiredless | whats a used 770 worth this week | 03:27 |
| Xark | CountDown: If you haven't seen this, I recommend it (and it was painless even though it did reflash and give me a nice boot menu with USB HD option). -> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ | 03:27 |
| CountDown | Xark: Thanks... speed has been an issue, so I might just do with the MMC boot. | 03:28 |
| Xark | CountDown: It bots about 4x faster now (the little blue progress bar). :-) | 03:28 |
| Xark | ..boots | 03:28 |
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| CountDown | Xark: Wow, not bad. Is the same speed-up noticeable when running programs? | 03:30 |
| Xark | CountDown: Yes, launching web etc. is noticeably faster. | 03:30 |
| Xark | CountDown: Its also nice because you can "hack around" on a copy of the system and always choose to boot the default system if "something goes bad" (I notice N800 is easy to make "not boot" if you mess around). | 03:31 |
| CountDown | By the way, "sudo ./flasher-3.0 --enable-usb-host-mode" is all that's needed to put the N800 into USB host mode. No reflash required. | 03:32 |
| CountDown | Xark: What's the maximum SD memory size these days? 8GB? | 03:33 |
| Xark | CountDown: Hmm, well isn't that some kind of reflash? :) Similar to the MMC boot procedure its a "friendly" reflash where you don't have to reinstall stuff. | 03:33 |
| Xark | CountDown: Yes, 8GB (but only had 4GB at local best buy so I went with that for $60). | 03:33 |
| CountDown | Xark: True. I guess just a couple of bytes were flashed. | 03:33 |
| CountDown | Xark: You're booting of the internal SD card? | 03:34 |
| Xark | CountDown: The MMC wiki howto installs a little boot menu with "flash boot" mmc boot and USB boot options (as well as a "real poweroff"). | 03:34 |
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| Xark | (Actually I get a choice of the partition on the MMC to boot, but I always choose the 2nd where I have ext2 filesystem with a clone+stuff of the system). | 03:35 |
| Xark | CountDown: Yes. | 03:35 |
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| Xark | CountDown: Its faster (I think) because SDHC 4GB may be faster but mostly because ext2 without compression is much faster than jffs with everything compressed. | 03:36 |
| CountDown | Ah, that's probably it. | 03:36 |
| Xark | CountDown: its nice to have a large "home" too (I was running out of space from installing and compiling so many apps). :) | 03:38 |
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| Xark | What is the internal built-in flash size? Something like 128 or 256MB I think. | 03:39 |
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| Xark | I should see how hard it is to make a .deb and a .install. Some of the programs are quite handy and other people might enjoy them (like lighttpd with openssl support for a tiny yet easy to use and "full-featured" web server). | 03:46 |
| * Xark thinks it would be quite difficult without a "real" Linux box (I am missing a bunch of "dpkg" utilities on the N800). | 03:47 | |
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| Radar | has there been a lack of any new applications and updates since the new firmware? | 03:48 |
| Radar | or is it just me? | 03:48 |
| Xark | Radar: Perhaps everybody is just re-installing and setting up their devices. :) | 03:49 |
| Radar | there was quite enough of that | 03:50 |
| Radar | almost back to where I was before the update, except the themes | 03:50 |
| Xark | Radar: Yeah. Hopefully eventually they will get a more friendly "update" procedure. | 03:51 |
| Radar | they better | 03:51 |
| Xark | Took me a few days, but I needed the do-over to clean up a few messes I made learning (and booting off the MMC is nice). | 03:51 |
| Radar | I had a very broken app install messing up my app manager | 03:52 |
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| Xark | Radar: Yep, thats a hazard. Can be difficult to clean up (but I have learned a lot about apt-get "trickery"). | 03:53 |
| Xark | I am now much more paranoid about what repositories I let get added (they can bite you in the future). :) | 03:54 |
| Radar | Had to use an obscure dpkg command in terminal to get rid of it | 03:54 |
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| Xark | Radar: Yep, sounds like what I had to do "--force-shut-the-hell-up-and-fix-it" or somesuch. :) | 03:54 |
| Radar | even apt-get was complaining | 03:54 |
| Radar | yep, that's the one, heh | 03:55 |
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| jonnylamb | Using "apt-get update" tells you simply where the problem repo is :) | 03:55 |
| Radar | seems like 99% of the time it's a maemo.org repo | 03:56 |
| Xark | Busybox is always giving me headaches as it conflicts with a bunch of things (and its tiny versions don't always cut it). | 03:56 |
| Xark | I have (mostly) made peace by compiling "real" versions of stuff into /usr/local. | 03:57 |
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| jonnylamb | Well one can easily submit a patch to the Application Manager maintainers. | 03:58 |
| jonnylamb | I would, but I suck at Gtk+. | 03:58 |
| jonnylamb | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/hildon-app-mgr/ | 03:59 |
| Radar | I don't think it's the app mgr, I think it's maemo.org, heh | 04:00 |
| Xark | Radar: Agreed, although app manager could be a smarter and (at least) have better error messages/handling. | 04:01 |
| jonnylamb | Ah, sorry. What I mean is better notifications on what repository is causing the issues. | 04:01 |
| Xark | "Something bad happened" | 04:01 |
| jonnylamb | After all, APT does actually output the error messages. | 04:01 |
| jonnylamb | As one who sorts out APT repositories myself, I cringe when I look at the Maemo one :$ | 04:01 |
| Radar | well, yeah, if it fails on a repo refresh it should keep going and not quit | 04:02 |
| jonnylamb | It's interesting how it says the last successful list is being used. While with APT, that repository and its contents are simply omitted.. | 04:03 |
| Radar | hate then, then search to disable the one currently down | 04:03 |
| Radar | yeah, that's what it should do | 04:03 |
| jonnylamb | Hmm, I'm not so sure about that. I think disabling a repository should be something a user specifically asks for. | 04:04 |
| jonnylamb | I think the current `apt-get update` behaviour is good, but hildon-app-mgr is just not verbose enough. | 04:05 |
| Radar | no, not disable it, just skip it on that refresh | 04:05 |
| * jonnylamb wonders whether there are any app-mgr devs here at GUADEC.. | 04:05 | |
| Radar | I keep looking for a new app, but I can't think of anything I want except a better browser and java | 04:07 |
| Radar | that's all, heh | 04:07 |
| jonnylamb | Java? Pardon? On an embedded device. | 04:07 |
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| jonnylamb | Such languages as Java and C# (mono) do not go with these kind of devices (maemo, moko) | 04:08 |
| Radar | my cell has java! (sorta, j2me) | 04:08 |
| jonnylamb | j2me != Java. | 04:08 |
| Radar | but it has a j! | 04:09 |
| jonnylamb | Mmm. | 04:12 |
| * Xark wishes he could get NPR radio streams to work on the N800 (seems a shame, since it does have realaudio). | 04:15 | |
| * solmumaha wishes he was someone just a little more funky | 04:18 | |
| solmumaha | couldn't help it, mr jones was playing :) | 04:19 |
| Radar | I'd like to find a good meadia streaming solution too | 04:23 |
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| Radar | all my music is on my server in itunes | 04:24 |
| jonnylamb | Downgrade the version of iTunes, and use Canola with DAAP. | 04:24 |
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| Radar | what about that mediastreamer app? | 04:27 |
| jonnylamb | That's a little flaky IMHO. However, it does do UPnP. | 04:30 |
| undefined | is anybody else getting 404s from repository.maemo.org? | 04:32 |
| Radar | it'd be nice to have something universal, to use on non-IT OS's too | 04:32 |
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| undefined | directory listings show files, but those files generate 404s | 04:32 |
| undefined | i've never seen apache do that (almost like a reverse proxy problem) | 04:33 |
| Radar | not surprising | 04:33 |
| undefined | Radar: so this is normal? | 04:33 |
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| jonnylamb | undefined: 404s is rather normal, but I'm not getting them from repository.m.o | 04:39 |
| jonnylamb | e.g. http://repository.maemo.org/pool/ | 04:39 |
| undefined | jonnylamb:http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo2.0/free/n/ncurses/ lists several files | 04:40 |
| undefined | jonnylamb: but http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo2.0/free/n/ncurses/ncurses-base_5.4-3_all.deb, for example, produces a 404 | 04:41 |
| undefined | so, directory listings work, but files don't | 04:41 |
| jonnylamb | Okay jep, that's a Problem with a capital P, I'd say. | 04:41 |
| undefined | how is apache generating directory listings based off of files that don't exist? | 04:42 |
| jonnylamb | Well, I expect they do /actually/ exist. | 04:42 |
| undefined | it's like a caching problem | 04:43 |
| jonnylamb | Is it just ncurses that you find fault with? | 04:43 |
| undefined | jonnylamb: nope, try http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo2.0/free/n/netbase/ | 04:44 |
| undefined | jonnylamb: and http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo2.0/free/n/netbase/netbase_5.00osso-3_all.deb | 04:44 |
| undefined | jonnylamb: that's just a random sample i also tried (but, yes, i'm needing/wanting ncurses-base) | 04:45 |
| Radar | ncurses-bin, tje bane of my existance | 04:46 |
| Radar | that was the broken app | 04:46 |
| Xark | Yep, I think that one caused me grief too... | 04:46 |
| Radar | don't even know what it is! | 04:47 |
| jonnylamb | ncurses? | 04:47 |
| Radar | wish I could hide non-installed apps in the app mgr | 04:47 |
| Xark | Radar: Ancestor of an ancient terminal handling library (to move the cursor around on serial terminals). | 04:47 |
| Radar | like all the canola language files | 04:47 |
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| Xark | Does anybody know if its "bad" to leave the charger in the N800 all the time (like will it degrade the battery)? | 04:49 |
| Radar | I think I remember hearing that | 04:50 |
| CountDown | Oops. Looks like I was a bit too eager to remove my /scratchbox directory. Seems that /scratchbox/dev can't be removed because "Device or resource busy". Help? | 04:50 |
| CountDown | Xark: Lithium Ion batteries don't like that. | 04:50 |
| Xark | COuntDown: Right, but sometimes the chargers are "smart" and can deal with it. I wonder if I can remove the batter and just run with main power... | 04:52 |
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| CountDown | Xark: Even so, most charges will start recharging the battery after it droops a bit, even though it's best to wait for the battery to completely discharge. | 04:53 |
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| Radar | I thought the fully discharge thing was no longer true, and actually harms newer batteries? | 04:55 |
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| Xark | Radar: I think LI doesn't like to go to zero, but likes to go to 30% or something like that. | 04:59 |
| Radar | sounds right | 04:59 |
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| Xark | I'll just run on battery for a while (the N800 is mostly playing internet radio currently). I don't want to remove the battery and spoil my N800's uptime. :-) | 05:02 |
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| Radar | the firmware update broke my uptime many times over | 05:04 |
| CountDown | I'll have to brush up on my battery trivia. | 05:05 |
| CountDown | Anyone know how to remove a scratchbox installation? | 05:06 |
| Xark | CountDown: Nope, but perhaps a utility like "lsof" might help you find what process has a hold on /dev. | 05:06 |
| undefined | okay, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/mistral/free/n/ncurses/ncurses-base_5.4-3_all.deb works, but http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo2.0/free/n/ncurses/ncurses-base_5.4-3_all.deb doesn't | 05:10 |
| undefined | though they should be the same | 05:11 |
| jonnylamb | Well sounds like it might be a symlink issue.. | 05:11 |
| undefined | as both mistral and maemo2.0 have the same time-date stamp | 05:11 |
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| undefined | time to go edit my repository entries | 05:12 |
| jonnylamb | Radar: Looking through the source of hildon-app-mgr, it looks as if the "not enough information" problem might have been fixed.. Well, I can't guarantee it's fixed, but it's certainly been changed. | 05:14 |
| Radar | heh | 05:14 |
| jonnylamb | I'm probably going to build SVN Hildon pretty soon when I get back from GUADEC.. I'll be able to see then, I suppose. | 05:14 |
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| undefined | grrr... the Packages files for mistral point to maemo2.0, which is producing 404s when downloading files, so changing "maemo2.0" to "mistral" doesn't help | 05:31 |
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| rhsanborn | bah, anyone know if scratchbox has been compiled for amd64? | 06:19 |
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| megabyte405 | rhsanborn: easiest way is to get the INdT Maemo SDK VMWare Appliance - scratchbox doesn't run well/at all on amd64 | 06:29 |
| megabyte405 | whereas the vm is perfectly preconfigured, so no muss, no fuss | 06:29 |
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| Xark | megabyte405: Do you know if that image is fully up to date for maemo 3.1 development? | 06:32 |
| Xark | (...or is 3.2 the latest...) | 06:33 |
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| seebs | Okay, I am doing something obviously dumb, but I can't figure it out. apt-get is failing because it can't resolve repository.maemo.org, but other commands (e.g., arp) resolve it just fine running inside scratchbox. | 06:33 |
| seebs | Is there something special about how apt-get does host lookups? | 06:34 |
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| seebs | (fresh install of 3.1, used the maemo-scratchbox and maemo-sdk scripts. nsswitch.conf has "hosts: dns", although I also tried with "hosts: files dns" just in case.) | 06:35 |
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| seebs | Ahh, never mind. | 06:38 |
| seebs | I was looking at the nsswitch.conf INSIDE scratchbox. I cannot read instructions. | 06:38 |
| CountDown | I just installed scratchbox 1.0 on my Ubuntu machine. All I really want to do with it is install Python 2.5, libusb-dev, and PyUSB. In so doing, a file called usb.so will be created. I'd like to copy this file onto my N800 so that I can access the USB port from Python on the N800. Does this sound reasonable? | 06:40 |
| trevarthan | FYI all: I just updated screenshots for Kagu: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/wiki/ScreenShots Things new in these screenshots? 1.) Added Play/Pause, Next, and Prev buttons. 2.) Bluetooth/A2DP button moved from middle right to bottom left of screen. 3.) Added VolumeView screenshot as the VolumeView has just been added this weekend. | 06:47 |
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| rhsanborn | someone mentioned vmware as an alternative dev environment...is that a gui app? | 07:09 |
| pupnik_ | no | 07:10 |
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| rhsanborn | thank goodness. I'm doing any work over ssh :P | 07:11 |
| Stg | errr sorry do any one know where is fastmame src ^^? | 07:11 |
| Stg | sorry just ask ^^ | 07:11 |
| pupnik | there is a premade vmware image that saves people the scratchbox config, and allows the scratchbox to be easily copied between pcs | 07:11 |
| pupnik | Stg sounds interesting | 07:11 |
| rhsanborn | good. ALthough getting vmware setup is equally a challenge :P | 07:12 |
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| Stg | yes ^^ | 07:13 |
| Stg | i like updata fastmame to 0.117 ^^ | 07:14 |
| pupnik | Stg: is fastmame optimized? or just compiled with Intel's ICC | 07:15 |
| Stg | fastmame optimized ^^ | 07:16 |
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| Stg | but i have no fastmeme src :/ | 07:16 |
| trevarthan | vmware isn't that hard to setup. It only takes a few minutes. Not like scratchbox. Nothing like scratchbox. :) | 07:16 |
| trevarthan | I wish that image was available when I set up my scratchbox, man that would have saved time... | 07:17 |
| pupnik | http://users.bigpond.net.au/mame/gp32/ Stg << there are some optimizations for ARM there | 07:17 |
| Stg | for gp32 ?_? | 07:18 |
| pupnik | yes it uses an arm9 cpu | 07:18 |
| pupnik | of course he doesn't have *my* favorite games working, so blah | 07:19 |
| rhsanborn | trevarthan: I'm using an amd64 cpu and dbian etch. the vmware player can't see my headers. It requires a little fiddling | 07:19 |
| Stg | so why fastmame be a fast is use arm9 cpu ? | 07:19 |
| pupnik | Stg, i have not found any page describing why fastmame is 'fast' besides using intels compiler | 07:20 |
| Stg | ohhh ok ^^ | 07:20 |
| Stg | still thanks you man ^^ | 07:20 |
| trevarthan | rhsanborn: sounds like a problem with debian's packaging of vmware. Or lack thereof. | 07:20 |
| pupnik | Stg: here is some possible optimisation http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?s=f36ab7429f0dfd231b93f6a8ddaaeb31&showtopic=37569 | 07:21 |
| rhsanborn | trevarthan: I haven't found a pacakge for vmware. I have to use the packages from vmwares site, which are a little finicky | 07:21 |
| Stg | ^^ thanks | 07:22 |
| trevarthan | rhsanborn: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/misc/vmware-package ?? | 07:22 |
| rhsanborn | trevarthan: that would make me a very happy person :P | 07:23 |
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| trevarthan | I don't run debian personally, so I don't have a clue if that works or not. I run gentoo and various redhat distros. Maemo is the first debian based distro that I actually like. (no, I've never tried Ubuntu. I'm sure I'd like it though.) | 07:24 |
| pupnik | <obligatory sidux plug here> | 07:24 |
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| pupnik | Sidux is a distro that tracks debian sid and catches problems/incompatibilities in an updater script. Very fast/light livecd. Very fast/clean install. The less-annoying alternative to Ubuntu. www.sidux.com | 07:26 |
| pupnik | </obligatory sidux plug here> | 07:26 |
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| pupnik | However sidux kernels don't work with scratchbox. Need to roll your own :/ | 07:26 |
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| trevarthan | :) Sometimes I love writing code. Everytime I play with my volume view it makes me smile. It's a crappy little thing, but it still makes me smile. | 07:27 |
| trevarthan | gobject is pretty sweet for callbacks. Kinda like Javascript's timer thingy (thought far less finicky) | 07:28 |
| trevarthan | s/thought/though/ | 07:28 |
| pupnik | well maybe not - got to check out echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled | 07:28 |
| infobot_ | trevarthan meant: gobject is pretty sweet for callbacks. Kinda like Javascript's timer thingy (though far less finicky) | 07:28 |
| pupnik | trevarthan: could you make a hildon virtual keyboard that pops up on-top and generates generic x keyboard events? | 07:29 |
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| trevarthan | I keep thinking that I could probably implement Kagu in it's entirety using the dojo Javascript toolkit. (dojotoolkit.org) | 07:30 |
| trevarthan | probably | 07:30 |
| trevarthan | why? | 07:30 |
| pupnik | that would be a solution for keyboard input to sdl programs | 07:31 |
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| trevarthan | true. I haven't needed one yet, but I'm sure I could make one. The problem with pygame is that you have to write all of your widgets from scratch. You sort of take the window manager and toss it out the window. | 07:32 |
| pupnik | that's one of the coolest things about maemo. so many projects waiting to be done | 07:32 |
| pupnik | mhm | 07:32 |
| pupnik | Well for whoever does that, the list of programs that could benefit is huge, including the amiga, C64, atari st, PalmOS and dosbox emulators | 07:32 |
| trevarthan | That can be a good thing, if you want to do things like inertial controls or funky interfaces, but it sucks when you've got to dupe the already existing onscreen KB. :) | 07:32 |
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| trevarthan | Ah. I was thinking an app specific widget. I think you're talking about hacking libsdl itself though. | 07:33 |
| pupnik | yeah. All programs can take regular x keyboard events (bluetooth kb), so a hack to bring up the hildon kbd and make it generate kb events would be a universal solution imo | 07:33 |
| pupnik | no | 07:33 |
| pupnik | I'm thinking about a seperate process that wouldn't require modifying any target program | 07:34 |
| trevarthan | Yeah, that's what I thought. That's probably not possible though. SDL has no concept of input regions. So there would be no way to determine when it pops up. | 07:35 |
| pupnik | to bring up the keyboard would be tricky though - you'd either need to bind a button on the device, or detect a sequence of button presses | 07:35 |
| pupnik | right | 07:35 |
| trevarthan | Well, if that sneak peak of the n801 or whatever was accurate, it won't be an issue in the future. The n801 looks like it will have a HW kb built in under the screen in a slide out. | 07:36 |
| pupnik | if that's the next tablet, i will have to buy it :/ | 07:36 |
| trevarthan | me too, I think. I don't mind not having it so much right now. I just avoid using apps with a lot of text input. But having it would really open up a lot of possibilities. | 07:37 |
| pupnik | i figured out how one could hold it - the index and middle fingers of left and right hand would clasp the device on both sides | 07:37 |
| pupnik | and the thumbs would type | 07:38 |
| seebs | Hmm. | 07:38 |
| seebs | The howto for making an application package has a link to hello-world-app_0.4.tar.gz, but that link seems to be dead. | 07:38 |
| trevarthan | Nokia is bad ass. I want to move to Finland and beg for a job. | 07:38 |
| trevarthan | seebs: as are many links on maemo sites. if you really need it, google it, or ask around either here or on the mailing list. | 07:39 |
| seebs | Well, anyone got a pointer to hello-world-app? | 07:39 |
| pupnik | it might be in the repository | 07:39 |
| seebs | I am doing an article that covers some scratchbox stuff, and I want to talk up the maemo docs, which are mostly pretty good. :) | 07:40 |
| seebs | Ooh, good catch. | 07:40 |
| pupnik | http://repository.maemo.org bora/free hello-world-app | 07:40 |
| seebs | It is indeed there. | 07:40 |
| seebs | Of course, that's the built version, not the source... | 07:40 |
| pupnik | heh | 07:40 |
| pupnik | apt-get source hello-world-app ? | 07:41 |
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| seebs | Ahh! | 07:41 |
| seebs | I never knew that one. (Sorta a debian-newbie. I'm enthusiastic, though; I figure anything that isn't rpm has to be an improvement, but apt-get is actually pretty nice.) | 07:41 |
| trevarthan | I need a better way to carry my n800 when I'm doing outdoor tasks. It has to be above my waist for my stupid Motorola S9 headset to not skip all the time. How the hell am I gonna manage that and not overheat myself with a backpack or jacket? | 07:41 |
| `0660 | haven't that link been down for months already? :) | 07:41 |
| pupnik | i think the source repo needs to be in your /etc/apt/sources.list | 07:42 |
| trevarthan | I need a freakin' shoulder holster. | 07:42 |
| joshin | Or a better headset. | 07:43 |
| seebs | It seems to have been sufficiently around by default in my scratchbox environment. | 07:43 |
| trevarthan | Not sure if there is a better one. s9 is made for sweating people. :) | 07:43 |
| trevarthan | When I was mowing my lawn last night I got sick of the skipping and broke out the ipod wired headphones. I was just mowing the lawn, so it wasn't that bad. Can't do that when I'm running though. | 07:44 |
| trevarthan | I need to get a pouch surgically embedded in my chest, like a kangaroo or something. :) | 07:46 |
| pupnik | Stg: http://benchmark.mameworld.net/ there are some comparisons - not very complete though | 07:46 |
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| trevarthan | The n800 is pretty big, but I would still strap it to my upper arm if they made a holster that worked for that. | 07:47 |
| trevarthan | I've only seen 'em for ipod nanos though. | 07:48 |
| trevarthan | Oh well, I'm gonna go play some Gears of War just to prove that I'm an insomniac. Anyone want to join me? | 07:49 |
| seebs | I've seen upper arm straps for full-sized ipods, I think. | 07:51 |
| pupnik | hmm trev looks like aflegg and penguinbait have windowmaker running "oskey-x is the on-screen keyboard in the second video." | 07:51 |
| pupnik | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4552&highlight=windowmaker | 07:51 |
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| pupnik | "The onscreen keyboard makes the system run 100%," :( | 07:56 |
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| pupnik | bah no xmkmf in sb | 08:18 |
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| Vertoo | hey everyone, has anyone found a good way to stream music from a home pc over the web to be accessed anywhere with internet connection? | 08:40 |
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| trevarthan | Vertoo: I like gnump3d. | 08:51 |
| Vertoo | any others that work? my music server is os x | 09:00 |
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| CountDown | Is there a log of this channel? I need to find a reference mentioned yesterday. | 09:09 |
| c0ffee | see the topic | 09:12 |
| CountDown | Ah, thanks. | 09:12 |
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| CountDown | Any tips for installing GCC on the N800 to appease python packages that need to compile against other libraries during installation? | 09:37 |
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| Xark | CountDown: That forum link I gave wasn't enough? It was fairly easy if you want a bit of help... | 10:04 |
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| CountDown | Xark: Actually, I was just now going through it. Tried a bunch of other things first, though. | 10:05 |
| Xark | CoutDown: Heh, no prob. Let me know if you hit any snags. | 10:05 |
| CountDown | Xark: It doesn't seem that all the files can be updated to the latest 3.2 release. | 10:06 |
| Xark | Count: No, the actual compiler is from 2.1 IIRC, but its OK just make sure the libs are from the newer one (so the -dev matches what you already have). | 10:06 |
| Xark | CountDown: I just browser the repository giving preference to anything that could be found in the newer one. | 10:07 |
| Xark | er, browsed | 10:07 |
| CountDown | Xark: And you're right -- the forum post neglects to mention where the cpp-3.4 comes from. | 10:07 |
| CountDown | Xark: Yeah, that's what I'm doing as well. | 10:07 |
| Xark | CountDown: In the end I don't think I had any apt-get headaches (dependency issues like the poster says he had). | 10:08 |
| CountDown | Xark: You mean dpkg? I got some warnings on the packages he mentioned. | 10:09 |
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| Xark | CountDown: Yes, thats what I mean. | 10:09 |
| Xark | CountDown: I don't recall any serious warnings or conflicts... | 10:10 |
| Xark | (Didn't need force or anything) | 10:10 |
| Xark | At this point I've compiled a great deal with the compiler and its fine. Occasionally it will segfault on a given file, so far I have always gotten good output by just lowering the optimization level (-O2 -> -Os typically, sometimes to -O1 or -O0). | 10:12 |
| Xark | CountDown: Also remember to make sure /tmp isn't the temp dir for compiles (either use /var/tmp or set TMPDIR environment var for gcc). | 10:12 |
| CountDown | Xark: Did you have to add gcc and g++ to your path? | 10:13 |
| Xark | CountDown: It uses g++-3.4 and gcc-3.4 so I added symlinks for gcc and g++ | 10:14 |
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| Xark | Didn't need to alter the path. | 10:14 |
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| * Xark thinks the N800 compiles faster than his AMD 486-100 did. :) | 10:15 | |
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| CountDown | Xark: I'm getting errors from g++-3.4 and libstdc++6-dev. | 10:16 |
| Xark | CountDown: Like what? | 10:16 |
| keesj | Hi | 10:16 |
| _Monkey | privet, keesj | 10:16 |
| Xark | CountDown: Hmm, I do seem to recall having to pick the right order to install things... | 10:17 |
| CountDown | "libstdc++6-dev depends on g++-3.4 (= 3.4.4cs2005q3.2-5.osso3); however: Package g++-3.4 is not configured yet." | 10:17 |
| Xark | CountDown: Yeah, that sounds familiar. IIRC all I did was install in a proper order. Can you finish g++3.4 config? | 10:18 |
| jumpula | if you say apt-get -f install what does it suggest? | 10:19 |
| CountDown | Xark: I get the opposite error if I try dpkg -i g++... | 10:19 |
| CountDown | :) | 10:19 |
| Xark | CountDown: I wish I had kept a log of exactly what I did. | 10:19 |
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| jumpula | you might do without the -f as well | 10:20 |
| Xark | CountDown: There must be a dpkg way to install packages with circular dependencies... | 10:20 |
| CountDown | Xark: Maybe I have the wrong versions? | 10:20 |
| * Xark is a Debian newbie (but old time Linuxer). | 10:20 | |
| CountDown | jumpula: I'll give it a try. | 10:20 |
| Xark | I seem to recall apt-get check being helpful as well... | 10:20 |
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| * Xark gets back to his coding, mention my nick to "beep" me. | 10:26 | |
| CountDown | Xark: Hmmm... g++-3.4 is there, but gcc-3.4 isn't. Do you have gcc-3.4 working? | 10:27 |
| CountDown | Xark: (Oops, sorry for the distraction.) | 10:27 |
| Xark | CountDown: Sure. I have both working. | 10:27 |
| Xark | CountDown: No problem. Its "work" so feel free to distract me. :-) | 10:28 |
| * Xark 's N800 has been distracting him all day. ;-) | 10:28 | |
| CountDown | Xark: Which .deb files did you use? | 10:28 |
| Xark | One sec.. lemme double check. | 10:28 |
| Xark | CountDown: I think it was gcc-3.4_3.4.4cs2005q3.2-5.osso3_armel.deb that was right with the others... | 10:29 |
| Xark | How can one get a list of all .deb files that are installed on a system? | 10:30 |
| Xark | (from CLI) | 10:30 |
| CountDown | dpkg -l or some such. | 10:30 |
| CountDown | Xark: Ah, I think I was trying to be too smart for my own good. | 10:31 |
| Xark | CountDown: Yep, it shows: ii gcc-3.4 3.4.4cs2005q3.2-5.osso3 The GNU C compiler | 10:31 |
| CountDown | Xark: I installed gcc-3.4-base_3.4.4cs2005q3.2-5.osso3_armel.deb instead. | 10:31 |
| Xark | CountDown: Hehe, I feel for that too. If you look in that -base thing its just the GPL, COPYING and REAME or somesuch. :-) | 10:32 |
| Xark | er, fell for... | 10:32 |
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| Xark | More like GPL-base. | 10:32 |
| Xark | CountDown: Its the only "up to date" gcc package, so sure I installed it. :) | 10:32 |
| CountDown | Xark: I guess I can just leave it in there, yeah? | 10:33 |
| Xark | CountDown: Yeah, no harm (until you get conflicts...) | 10:33 |
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| Xark | (just kidding, it seems harmless) | 10:33 |
| Xark | CountDown: Sounds like you are basically there though. | 10:34 |
| CountDown | Xark: Installing and checking now... | 10:34 |
| CountDown | Xark: Looks good! Thanks again. :) | 10:35 |
| Xark | CountDown: No prob. Enjoy. | 10:36 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:52 |
| CountDown | Morning, Jaffa. | 10:54 |
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| CountDown | The IRC logs indicate there was some sort of problem with python raising an exception like: File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>, couldn't opendir(): No such file or directory | 10:58 |
| CountDown | Did this ever get resolved? | 10:58 |
| CountDown | I'm running into the same thing now. | 10:59 |
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| nomis | CountDown: I have no idea about this, but is the path to the python executable correct? | 11:05 |
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| CountDown | nomis: Do you mean the path to the Python interpreter? If so, yes. | 11:06 |
| nomis | ok. No clue then :) | 11:06 |
| CountDown | Thanks for the suggestion, though. | 11:07 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 11:15 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:26 |
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| CountDown | Good morning, AD-N770. | 11:27 |
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| eugene | melmoth: not on holiday? | 11:38 |
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| CountDown | Python 2.5 under Maemo 3.2 on my N800 is complaining: usb.USBError: couldn't opendir(): No such file or directory | 12:01 |
| CountDown | This doesn't happen on my desktop, and the IRC logs indicate similar problems with Maemo's Python previously. Any ideas? | 12:02 |
| Xark | CountDown: Is this on a jffs, ext2 or vfat partition? | 12:03 |
| Xark | CountDown: Pehaps its not happy with vfat? | 12:03 |
| CountDown | Xark: It's whatever the default Maemo 3.2 partition is. | 12:03 |
| CountDown | Xark: Not the SD cards. | 12:04 |
| Xark | CountDown: OK, thats jffs, which I would assume has proper semantics. | 12:04 |
| CountDown | I don't even know what would cause such a problem. | 12:05 |
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| lardman | hmm, Jazelle v1 Architecture Reference Manual requires an NDA :( | 12:58 |
| Xark | CountDown: Are you trying to access a USB device? Perhaps you need to make some device nodes in /dev on the N800? | 13:04 |
| Xark | lardman: Jazelle == ARM-flavored CPU? | 13:05 |
| suihkulokki | Xark: google before asking :) | 13:05 |
| lardman | Xark: Jazelle is a hardware extension for some ARM processors (like the one in the N800) that allows direct bytecode execution | 13:06 |
| * lardman was busy with MATLAB | 13:06 | |
| cbx33 | matlab. ah that brings back memories | 13:07 |
| Xark | lardman: Right, thanks. Some patented crap in there. | 13:08 |
| lardman | Xark: Yes, but that's the challenge of course :) ;) | 13:08 |
| Xark | lardman: Heh, yes, but its often largely a legal challenge. :) | 13:09 |
| lardman | Yeah, I'm not sure about that. What happens if you manage to reverse engineer the process from publically available documentation + guesswork? | 13:10 |
| * lardman wishes! | 13:10 | |
| Xark | lardman: If its patented, it doesn't matter if you independently invented it 1 day late. The patent owner wins (and if you know its patented and violate it, it can be more damages). | 13:11 |
| Xark | (wins unless you have $$$ and good lawyers) | 13:11 |
| lardman | Doesn't that depend on whether you sell it. If you mearly give it away, then is there an issue? | 13:12 |
| Xark | lardman: However, sometimes you can work around patents (although there is often a performance loss). | 13:12 |
| Xark | lardman: Nope. | 13:12 |
| Xark | lardman: If giving it away was OK, then Linux would snarf all patented tech around. :) | 13:13 |
| lardman | What about gif, isn't that patented? | 13:13 |
| lardman | Or at least the compression used in it | 13:13 |
| Xark | lardman: Yes, and you needed to pay money if you had code that used it (free or not). | 13:13 |
| Xark | lardman: However, now that patent has expired worldwide I believe. | 13:14 |
| lardman | Ah, I see | 13:14 |
| Xark | lardman: Now its JPEG that isn't safe (damn Lucent). | 13:14 |
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| lardman | hmm, jpeg decoding is too slow for my liking, certainly when browsing digital photos | 13:17 |
| lardman | not related to patents, just got me thinking | 13:18 |
| Xark | lardman: On the N800 or in general? | 13:18 |
| lardman | Xark: N800 | 13:19 |
| Xark | lardman: Yeah. Proably a similar reason as to why youtube is 4 fps. | 13:19 |
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| lardman | Sounds like a good dsp project :) | 13:19 |
| Xark | lardman: I wonder if Nokia is taking advantage of the vfp in the N800 for that stuff. | 13:20 |
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| lardman | The JPEGs that is | 13:20 |
| Veggen | hmm. Does there exist such a thing as a bluetooth USB-converter. That is, USB-thing that talks bluetooth to the computer ? (with battery, obviously) | 13:20 |
| lardman | Xark: No, nothing much is compiled for vfp, certainly libm isn't | 13:20 |
| Xark | lardman: See, now that strikes me as silly. | 13:20 |
| lardman | Xark: Size issues I think | 13:21 |
| lardman | Xark: Should be in the ml archives | 13:21 |
| Xark | lardman: Hmm. I am not buying it (at least for math-heavy routines). | 13:21 |
| lardman | Xark: To tell the truth, good fixed point code is often faster, tremor is significantly faster than vorbis iirc | 13:21 |
| Xark | lardman: True, it may be for jpeg, but it depends. | 13:22 |
| lardman | Xark: Yes. That'd be easy to test | 13:23 |
| Xark | lardman: I would have killed for the vfp coding for the Nintendo DS. :) | 13:23 |
| Xark | (NDS is ARM4 w/o any FPU let alone VFP). | 13:24 |
| lardman | Why was it such an issue? Porting code or writing new? | 13:24 |
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| Xark | NDS does 3D in a similar fashion to an Atari 2600 doing bitmapped graphics. :) | 13:25 |
| Xark | Writing a game (which had 3D elements). | 13:25 |
| Xark | All nasty fixed point matrix math and stuff. | 13:25 |
| lardman | Yep, easier to understand as floating point | 13:26 |
| lardman | But depends on how fast the fp works | 13:26 |
| Xark | NDS is wacky (no frame buffer for 3D). | 13:26 |
| Xark | lardman: I only know of the VFP from drooling over it while reading the ARM doing DS coding. | 13:26 |
| Xark | lardman: Do you know is there a FPU and a VFP or is all float math being done in software on N800? | 13:27 |
| Xark | s/is/if/ | 13:28 |
| infobot | Xark meant: lardman: Do you know if there a FPU and a VFP or is all float math being done in software on N800? | 13:28 |
| * Xark pats the infobot and tosses it a botsnack. | 13:28 | |
| lardman | Xark: There is a hardware vfp unit | 13:28 |
| Xark | lardman: Yes, but is there also hardware FP unit or are all the binaries using soft-float? | 13:28 |
| Xark | (since you said they weren't using the VFP) | 13:29 |
| lardman | Xark: But the unit does not actually perform all instructions in hw afaicr, some are done in software. The binaries all (I think) use soft-float (vfp) | 13:29 |
| Xark | lardman: Interesting. | 13:29 |
| Xark | lardman: Is there any detailed doc about the chip in the N800 available for free (excluding the Jazzy crud)? | 13:30 |
| lardman | But if they do as I do, and statically link against a hardware-floting point libm, then some things may use the hardware | 13:30 |
| Xark | lardman: I was under the impression that on arm chips with VFP that was typically used for all HW fp math (but I may be wrong). | 13:31 |
| lardman | Xark: Yes, there's a doc on the arm site about this processor. Take a look at my email about Jazelle to the maemo-developers list (yesterday?) for an url | 13:31 |
| Xark | lardman: Will do. | 13:31 |
| lardman | Xark: I think that the vfp unit only handles a subset of the full instruction set, only those things that are used often | 13:31 |
| Xark | lardman: I see. That would be very ARM-like. | 13:32 |
| lardman | yep | 13:32 |
| lardman | though check that as it's just based on something I think I read a while back | 13:32 |
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| Xark | lardman: When looking at the ARM book I mentioned I remember thinking the instruction set was pretty amazing. That makes sense if they don't have to actually spend all those transistors on it. :) | 13:33 |
| Xark | (VFP instruction set) | 13:33 |
| lardman | I've not actually looked at the instructions themselves, I was always more interested in whether it gains us anything | 13:34 |
| Xark | lardman: I see. I am a long time assembly language person (since when it was basically the only option) so I like looking at the instructions. | 13:35 |
| * lardman is learning to try hacking Jazelle | 13:35 | |
| Xark | lardman: Were you involved in the interesting patent discussions recently? | 13:36 |
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| * Xark can't remember if they were on maemo mailing list or some random google surf he was following... | 13:36 | |
| lardman | Xark: If you mean on the ml, then yes, that's me | 13:37 |
| Xark | lardman: Talking about adding kernel exception vectors and such? | 13:38 |
| lardman | Xark: Yes, but I don't think that's needed anymore | 13:38 |
| Xark | lardman: Cool. That sounded slow to me anyways. :) | 13:38 |
| lardman | Xark: Well Jazelle will do certain instructions in hw, with other infrequently used ones needing to be emulated, so I thought it might work in theory | 13:39 |
| lardman | Xark: But from reading that pdf I pointed you too, it appears that SWI and UNDEF exceptions don;t occur in Java mode | 13:40 |
| lardman | Xark: So the exception vector table can't be the answer (thankfully) | 13:41 |
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| lardman | hmm, I may be wrong about cfp only doing a subset, googling seems to indicate it does the whole of IEE754 | 13:42 |
| lardman | s/cfp/vfp | 13:42 |
| Xark | lardman: Does that mean it honors the whole spec, or that its all implemented in HW? | 13:44 |
| lardman | Xark: That I don;t know | 13:45 |
| Xark | lardman: Excepting the PS2 almost everything is IEEE complient these days (and I think Java is even more strict). | 13:45 |
| lardman | hmm, I seem to remember that software vfp isn't, or at least it doesn't produce the same results as hardware vfp | 13:47 |
| lardman | though there is some latitude in the specification | 13:47 |
| lardman | ah no, I was thinking of issues with Octave http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/floating_point.html, right at the bottom, paranoia passed all the platforms as being compliant | 13:49 |
| lardman | Outputs here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/ | 13:50 |
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| Xark | lardman: Interesting. I need to dig out my ARM book... | 14:03 |
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| lardman | Xark: Please let me know if you have any thoughts | 14:13 |
| Xark | lardman: Just reading some google threads regarding N800 vfp and soft float. Sounds like what you said earlier, it uses a soft-float abi but somehow stll gets win from vfp (perhaps using HW inside GCC lib code). | 14:16 |
| Radar | I understood "n800" in that sentence | 14:17 |
| Radar | and that was it | 14:18 |
| gomiam | Radar: lardman talks about "virtual floating point" | 14:18 |
| lardman | vector | 14:18 |
| lardman | vector floating point | 14:18 |
| gomiam | ouch, sorry | 14:18 |
| lardman | np | 14:18 |
| gomiam | soft-float is making the calculations without using hardware | 14:19 |
| gomiam | right? | 14:19 |
| lardman | vfp can be performed in hw or sw, n800 has the hardware, but the Nokia software doesn't use it for much atm | 14:19 |
| lardman | gomiam: yep | 14:19 |
| Radar | unless it is ussed to make a game, not interested! | 14:19 |
| gomiam | Radar: you should be interested in vector floating point | 14:19 |
| lardman | vfp is a specific floating point instruction set used by ARM | 14:19 |
| gomiam | if well used it can make video/audio treatment much more efficient | 14:20 |
| gomiam | consider the MMX extensions in Intel processors | 14:20 |
| gomiam | only translated to floating point | 14:20 |
| lardman | hmm, well the N800 processor has things like MMX, simd instructions, etc. | 14:20 |
| lardman | so not quite the same, but right idea | 14:20 |
| gomiam | MMX extensions, IIRC, are SIMD | 14:21 |
| gomiam | (mostly, at least) | 14:21 |
| lardman | I should repeat that sentence, it could be read the wrong way -> yep it has features that are like MMX, e.g. simd instructions | 14:21 |
| gomiam | np | 14:21 |
| gomiam | :-D | 14:21 |
| gomiam | yes, the moment you start talking about vector operations, SIMD is to be expected, usually | 14:22 |
| gomiam | well, I'll get back to studying :-P | 14:22 |
| lardman | Dare I say this assembly programming is quite interesting to learn :) | 14:23 |
| gomiam | my mind isn't parallelized enough yet (working on it, though) | 14:23 |
| Xark | I would say that VFP is more similar to Intel SSE (MMX is integer). | 14:24 |
| Xark | Same kind of stuff though. | 14:24 |
| lardman | well hw vfp is a coprocessor, so it's I'd say just like standard floating point coprocessors | 14:25 |
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| lardman | semantics anyway | 14:25 |
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| Xark | I am just talking functionally. MMX is 64 bit integer stuff. SSE is 128-bit 4xfloat just like VFP on ARM. | 14:29 |
| lardman | I wonder whether any of the standard libs use things like the ARM Media Extensions or DSP extensions? (http://www.arm.com/pdfs/ARM-DSP.pdf, http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/arch-simd.html) | 14:30 |
| Xark | E.g., MMX = (mostly) faster blitting audio mixing, SSE = faster 3D math | 14:30 |
| Xark | lardman: Other than perhaps some codecs and other Nokia specific things, I doubt it. | 14:31 |
| lardman | Xark: I was just thinking about making JPEG browsing tolerable | 14:31 |
| lardman | Xark: Another little project to add to the list :) | 14:32 |
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| Xark | lardman: I haven't looked at any of the DSP stuff, but it sounds very promising (unless the DSPs suck or something). | 14:32 |
| lardman | Xark: Ah, these extensions are in the ARM core, not the DSP | 14:32 |
| Xark | lardman: Ahh, you mean the MADD stuff. | 14:33 |
| Xark | Like 2x16-bit multiply add. | 14:33 |
| lardman | Xark: The DSP has a slightly steep learning curve, but I have some code for doing G.711 (my first test case), I just need to convert my short->char function to a int->16bit char function | 14:33 |
| lardman | Xark: Yes, those are the ones | 14:34 |
| Xark | lardman: I think even the DS had those (but they weren't too useful to me at the time). | 14:34 |
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| Xark | lardman: Mostly good for audio mixing and other stuff, but I assume since the load is so low playing AAC and MP3 radio that the N800 has some kind of decent codec HW support. | 14:35 |
| lardman | Xark: Yep mp3 & aac are handled on the DSP | 14:35 |
| lardman | Xark: Video is done on the ARM though | 14:35 |
| lardman | though on the 770 video used to be on the DSP too | 14:36 |
| Xark | lardman: Yeah. I was reading the mplayer threads about how the N800 video bus is 3x _slower_ than N770. | 14:36 |
| Xark | *Bzzt* Wrong direction :) | 14:37 |
| lardman | Serge/ssvb/Siarhei Siamashka would be someone to talk to about the ARM DSP/media extensions | 14:38 |
| lardman | He's been doing assembly hacking to improve mplayer performance | 14:39 |
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| wumpus | indeed, the bus connecting the arm to the lcd controller is kind of slow for the N800 | 14:54 |
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| Xark | wumpus: Seems noticeably slow even just scrolling in the browser and redrawing the screen. Do any scrolling games run fast? | 14:59 |
| Xark | Also, anybody notice that the lowercase "g" is missing pieces at certain sizes in the courier font (monospaced web text). Some kind of ugly scaling or bad antialising. | 15:07 |
| wumpus | well I don't think the bus is that slow you should notice, I mean, you can play video in realtime | 15:07 |
| inz | Xark, yeah, I was reading a finnish ircquotes site, and had trouble reading some letters, took me a while to recognise it as a g | 15:08 |
| wumpus | agreed on the fonts btw | 15:08 |
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| Xark | wumpis: Well thats why I was asking about a game. Do SDL games hit the framebuffer directly or does everything go through X? | 15:09 |
| Xark | er, wumpus | 15:09 |
| Xark | (sorry) | 15:10 |
| wumpus | I have no idea, I do know that the framebuffer is 'fake', so if you update it directly nothing happend, it needs to be manually resynced over the LCD bus | 15:10 |
| wumpus | I mean it's not memory mapped | 15:10 |
| wumpus | this is probably also why the DSP does not decode video on the N800 | 15:11 |
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| Xark | wumpus: Yeah, so you just play with a block of memory then slowly stream it to the LCD memory. | 15:17 |
| * Xark thinks back to Genesis, ColecoVision and other VDPs without direct FB access. | 15:18 | |
| pupnik | Xark: no HWsurface in sdl on nokia | 15:18 |
| pupnik | it's all a copy through X | 15:18 |
| pupnik | are you interested in sdl games? | 15:19 |
| Xark | pupnik: Not too surprised about that. Even on desktop Linux is rare to see HWsurface nowadays (other than perhaps 320x200). | 15:19 |
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| Xark | pupnik: I have been toying with it since way back. | 15:19 |
| pupnik | the hacker who did mplayer has code to write straight to FB mem | 15:20 |
| pupnik | we could write a sdl hwsurface lib based on his code | 15:20 |
| pupnik | well i couldn't | 15:20 |
| wumpus | you can write directly to FB mem. but it won't help you | 15:20 |
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| pupnik | it is possible, but most of the performance probelms are in the SDL games themselves | 15:20 |
| wumpus | it's not the framebuffer of the hardware you're writing to but a software mirror | 15:20 |
| wumpus | as I explained | 15:21 |
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| Xark | pupnik: Hmm, I'm sure I could add support for that to SDL (given a glimpse at the code that does the xfer). | 15:21 |
| wumpus | the kernel takes care of copying the changed parts of the framebuffer via a serial interface to the LCD controller | 15:21 |
| pupnik | look at mplayer Xark... it also has some faster memcpy and memmove | 15:21 |
| Xark | wumpus: As long as there is a clean way to get X out of the way so you don't fight over the screen (aka fullscreen mode). | 15:21 |
| pupnik | yes there is | 15:21 |
| wumpus | yeah I'm sure you can do that | 15:22 |
| pupnik | it's not 100% solid tho | 15:22 |
| pupnik | killing the process can leave you with a mess, especially if you have xsp enabled | 15:22 |
| Xark | pupnik: I will have to see if I can compile native SDL games first (so far only text apps). | 15:22 |
| pupnik | Xark: check my stuff at http://pupnik.de and if you are interested in any of that, i'll give you sauces | 15:22 |
| wumpus | pupnik: it's the same if fullscreen media player dies | 15:24 |
| Xark | pupnik: Cool. I am daring to be different and trying to do fully native development (i.e., compile on the N800). I figure its faster than the AMD 486-100 I developed on for years. :-) | 15:24 |
| pupnik | there is no excuse to develop on the device | 15:24 |
| Xark | pupnik: SDL typically had a "parachute" to restore the screen in case of crash/exit (signal handler, really). | 15:25 |
| pupnik | well get started on something - tons of good sdl apps | 15:25 |
| Xark | pupnik: Only the challenge. :-) Besides, I don't have a Linux box set up anymore and want a solid state one. | 15:26 |
| pupnik | fine, whatever is fun for you | 15:26 |
| Xark | pupnik: I have a working compiler and ssh, so I am mostly happy. Having trouble compiling a new binutils/gcc, but I can see moving on to SDL. | 15:26 |
| pupnik | people who want to get things done don't set up artificial hurdles though | 15:26 |
| Xark | pupnik: I have the VMWare dev image worst case. | 15:26 |
| pupnik | ok | 15:27 |
| pupnik | you obviously don't have professional programming experience | 15:27 |
| Xark | pupnik: THe compile time is not the barrier. | 15:27 |
| Xark | pupnuk: Hehe, why do you say that. | 15:27 |
| pupnik | goal-oriented attitude | 15:28 |
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| Xark | pupnik: This is my hobby. I am a professional game developer (and am a veteran one - started professionally on the Atari 2600). | 15:28 |
| pupnik | wow ok | 15:28 |
| pupnik | we could really use DrPocketSNES on the nokias | 15:29 |
| pupnik | snes9x is too slow | 15:29 |
| pupnik | it's form the gp2x tree... i spend a couple of weeks merging the two and its a mess | 15:29 |
| Xark | pupnik: My goal is to have a nice solid-state linux box to develop little SDL games on for a hobby. I see no hardware/speed reason that the device is not up to it. In fact I was shocked that I couldn't just "apt-get" a full dev toolchain. | 15:29 |
| pupnik | if you want to work on it, i can give you my work in progress | 15:30 |
| pupnik | hmm | 15:30 |
| Xark | I did Linux development on a 3.3 bogomips machine with 8MB for a few years. :-) | 15:30 |
| pupnik | my first professional work was on an 80286 back in 87 | 15:30 |
| pupnik | you not having a pc for scratchbox is strange and suspicious | 15:31 |
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| Xark | pupnik: I have a PC, I am doing "real" work on it at the moment (while I ssh to the N800 and IRC on the 2nd monitor). | 15:32 |
| Xark | pupnik: I just don't have a dedicated Linux box up and running. | 15:33 |
| Xark | pupnik: I am just toying and learning about the N800 at the moment. | 15:34 |
| Xark | pupnik: Its currently acting as my ssh/router/web server (so I can get to my PC via it from outside over SSH tunnel). | 15:35 |
| Xark | pupnik: I am also interested in the toolchain because it doesn't look like the current binaries are taking optimum use of the CPU (with VFP at least). | 15:36 |
| _Monkey | okay, Xark. | 15:36 |
| wumpus | well yeah if you want to develop on the device itself why not | 15:36 |
| Xark | Once I ssh to it, I can't really tell what device it is (and the window is bigger than the VMWare one on my 20" LCD). | 15:37 |
| * Xark notices its way past time for bed...ZZZzzz night all. | 15:39 | |
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| Jaffa | Interesting announcement on Maemo-developers about Telepathy | 17:16 |
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| disq | mmm i'll check it out | 17:23 |
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| disq | i just had an idea about the osso-statusbar-cpu | 17:23 |
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| disq | would be useful if it notified you when some user process was using excessive cpu and prompt to kill it (with an adjustable timeout, that would kill it in x seconds if the cpu usage keeps up) | 17:24 |
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| kender | hi | 17:24 |
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| inz | disq, I do accept patches ;) | 17:27 |
| disq | inz: i tried but the compiler kept spitting out errors | 17:28 |
| inz | oh | 17:28 |
| disq | inz: about "Link:: command not found" in libtool | 17:28 |
| inz | interesting | 17:28 |
| disq | depcomp had it, I deleted it and ran autogen | 17:28 |
| disq | now it's in libtool | 17:28 |
| disq | which sdk did you compile this on? i'm trying with bora (3.0 i think) | 17:29 |
| inz | 3.0 it should be | 17:29 |
| inz | Try from svn? | 17:29 |
| disq | i will | 17:29 |
| disq | and also i couldn't figure out how to turn the /proc/stat info (ticks, i think) to percentages | 17:30 |
| inz | ticks_process * 100 / ticks_all? | 17:31 |
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| disq | mm.. guess i wasn't thinking. thanks :) | 17:33 |
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| dneary | any sign of Quim? | 17:33 |
| disq | (i'm new to the idle ticks stuff) | 17:33 |
| disq | dneary: probably in guadec? | 17:33 |
| dneary | he is | 17:34 |
| inz | disq, I've done that in dialog.c | 17:34 |
| dneary | but they have network in the UK these days, I hear | 17:34 |
| dneary | :) | 17:34 |
| inz | disq, other thing I'd like to figure out, is how to combine threads under one entry in mem "hogs" | 17:35 |
| disq | that i have no idea. even "top" confuses me sometimes | 17:35 |
| inz | =) | 17:35 |
| suihkulokki | summer holidays. guadec. etc. | 17:36 |
| suihkulokki | don't expect anything to happen until september. | 17:36 |
| disq | ooh the new release is interesting. let me grab my n800 from the charger | 17:36 |
| disq | i had a standard nokia to tiny nokia adapter but i lost it somewhere in the house, i keep the charger in the bedroom | 17:37 |
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| gomiam | I carry the charger in the same bag I carry the N800 :-) | 17:38 |
| gomiam | much easier for drive-by recharging :-D | 17:38 |
| disq | i carry the n800 in my pants pocket. or in my photo bag | 17:38 |
| gomiam | that's not an option in my case. I already carry too many things in my pants pockets :-D | 17:39 |
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| disq | (i have another tiny-plug charger but i also lost the us to european plug adapter so can't use it) | 17:39 |
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| Feral_Kid | I installed gpecalendar and now I seem to have a slight problem... When I boot the 770, there is a message that says that it can not open gpecalendar file, at which point the unit reboot and the process starts all over again. Does anyone know what file I need to edit so that gpecalendar doesn't start at boot time? | 17:50 |
| Feral_Kid | I figured I would mount the mmc filesystem and remove whatever needs to removed in order to boot properly again... | 17:51 |
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| Jaffa | Feral_Kid: the file in question won't be on the MMC. You could try disabling the lifeguard restart using a flasher | 17:59 |
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| Feral_Kid | Jaffa> I am not sure what you mean about the lifeguard... There is no file that defines what is loaded at boot time... For instance, when I boot off the flash, it boots with no problem, so there is nothing that doesn't stop applications from trying to start when I boot off the mmc. | 18:02 |
| Jaffa | Feral_Kid: Oh, I didn't realise you were MMC booting. | 18:05 |
| cy- | http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com | 18:05 |
| Jaffa | Feral_Kid: You need to remove the gpecalendar.desktop file. | 18:05 |
| cy- | ^^ laulz | 18:05 |
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| Jaffa | Feral_Kid: /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/gpe-calendar-home.desktop (from http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2007/01/29/resizing_gpe_calendar_on_os_2007) | 18:05 |
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| Feral_Kid | Jaffa> Ok, did that, but what I get now is "event_db_new: unable to open database:/ home/user/.gpe/calendar, and then I click ok, it starts a reboot... I did remove the gpe-calendar-home.desktop file... | 18:23 |
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| lardman | hmm, is it just me or does the browser not open when you click on a bookmark | 18:25 |
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| Sulis | just you | 18:28 |
| Sulis | ... | 18:28 |
| lardman | I must be special then | 18:28 |
| Sulis | yup! | 18:28 |
| lardman | :D | 18:29 |
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| timeless | hello cruel world | 18:34 |
| timeless | i have a document that mentions Hildon | 18:34 |
| timeless | unfortunately it was written before Hildon moved to Gnome | 18:35 |
| timeless | can someone provide a 5-9 word description of Hildon? :) | 18:35 |
| timeless | (hildon to fit in a sugar snap pea shell) | 18:35 |
| theril | It's a GUI framework that the Maemo os uses | 18:35 |
| theril | And all hildon widgets are GTK+-widgets | 18:35 |
| timeless | sorry, that doesn't work | 18:35 |
| timeless | hildon is upstream of maemo, so mentioning maemo in the description is faulty | 18:36 |
| timeless | that's like me calling Linux "An os for Maemo embedded devices" | 18:36 |
| timeless | i can do it, but millions of people will bite my head off | 18:36 |
| Sulis | it's a gui frame work for mobile devices...? | 18:37 |
| Sulis | that better? | 18:37 |
| timeless | yes | 18:37 |
| theril | But maemo is currently the only one that uses it | 18:37 |
| Sulis | that's not true... | 18:37 |
| Sulis | there's an ubuntu that uses hildon too | 18:37 |
| * timeless watches sulis bite theril's head off | 18:37 | |
| theril | Oh, sure :) | 18:38 |
| Sulis | :P | 18:38 |
| timeless | User Interface framework for mombile devices? | 18:38 |
| theril | But hildon was originally designed for maemo | 18:38 |
| Sulis | i'm not that bitchy atm, haven't had a caffeine infusion recently | 18:38 |
| timeless | theril: sure, but describing something by what it was doesn't win points | 18:39 |
| theril | I'm so very sorry | 18:39 |
| timeless | if i called Hildon "Gimp ToolKit based whatever for Maemo" | 18:39 |
| timeless | i'm sure people would bite my head off for the former too | 18:39 |
| timeless | sorry, i know what things were, i'm fixing them to avoid being perceived as out of date | 18:39 |
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| lardman | Anyone have a link to a description of the compression that is carried out for a2dp? | 18:45 |
| timeless | is that SBC? | 18:46 |
| lardman | no idea, just fishing for DSP ideas | 18:46 |
| timeless | www.obluestack.com/pdf/oblue2SOUND-web.pdf | 18:47 |
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| timeless | ok, back to words... | 18:47 |
| lardman | timeless: Thanks, I'll have a read | 18:47 |
| timeless | how do you spell <m><A><e><M><o> cOmUnItY sItE ? :) | 18:48 |
| timeless | or is there no such thing? | 18:48 |
| timeless | (and yes, obviously the case for letters is important) | 18:48 |
| lardman | two ms in community? | 18:48 |
| timeless | (spelling also counts :) | 18:48 |
| timeless | heck, while I'm at it, what *is* that site? (url?) | 18:49 |
| timeless | lardman: sure, but, "maemo Community site", "Maemo Community Site", "maemo Community Site", ... | 18:49 |
| * timeless suspects that this means "garage" | 18:50 | |
| lardman | Good question, maemo is not capitalised on the website | 18:50 |
| theril | lardman: Bluez-project has an open source implementation of SBC if that's of any help | 18:50 |
| timeless | i'm pretty sure there's a rule that maemo is never capitalized except at the beginning of sentences | 18:50 |
| lardman | If you could do the cool 'e' in the middle of maemo, then keep it all lower case | 18:51 |
| lardman | theril: thanks | 18:51 |
| theril | And A2DP supports also other codecs, such as MP3 | 18:52 |
| theril | But SBC is the only one that has to be supported by A2DP devices | 18:52 |
| theril | lardman: A2DP spec: http://www.bluetooth.com/NR/rdonlyres/800D10CD-DE3D-4D51-ABC0-726C8DF26151/921/A2DPspecv10.pdf | 18:52 |
| lardman | theril: But I suppose you have to choose your headset if you want only mp3 | 18:53 |
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| theril | lardman: Yes | 18:55 |
| timeless | right... so | 18:56 |
| timeless | what is the maemo community site? :) | 18:56 |
| theril | At least the N800 can do realtime mp3 decoding and perhaps SBC encoding on top, so it could be possible to do it without DSP too | 18:56 |
| lardman | theril: But it would be nice to be able to output audio to a2dp while playing a movie too | 18:56 |
| theril | lardman: That could be done by gstreamer | 18:57 |
| theril | Alsa has a plugin that can act as a a2dp sink | 18:57 |
| lardman | theril: In terms of cpu usage though | 18:57 |
| theril | Ah, sorry :) | 18:57 |
| lardman | theril: I was thinking of an SBC dspsink | 18:58 |
| lardman | theril: Though it may be rather hard | 18:58 |
| Toma- | can you change the window manager on the 770? | 18:58 |
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| theril | lardman: Is it possible to get the encrypted data back to the pipeline from the sink? | 19:01 |
| Jaffa | timeless: Definition of maemo.org really shouldn't change in your doc. What've you currently got? | 19:01 |
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| db48x | I've got scratchbox set up, but when I go to compile something more complicated than a hello-world type program, I find that I haven't met all of the dependancies (things like flex aren't installed) | 19:04 |
| theril | lardman: Paper describing how to implement SBC in DSP: http://www.amis.com/tech_resources/dsp_technology_papers/ICASSP2004_SBC.pdf | 19:04 |
| db48x | how are these dependancies generally met? | 19:04 |
| theril | db48x: Does apt-get install flex work? | 19:05 |
| timeless | apt-get builddep foo | 19:05 |
| timeless | or something very close to that | 19:05 |
| timeless | build-dep | 19:05 |
| theril | build-dep | 19:05 |
| timeless | theril: db48x would die trying to do it by hand | 19:05 |
| timeless | db48x: you actually want a meta package | 19:06 |
| db48x | apt-get install flex doesn't work, no | 19:06 |
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| timeless | there shoudl be one or two nice ones available | 19:06 |
| timeless | lemme see if i can find the one someone gave me last week :) | 19:06 |
| db48x | sure, anything to speed things alog | 19:06 |
| db48x | along | 19:06 |
| db48x | whoa, apt-get build-dep flex wants to remove 59 packages | 19:07 |
| db48x | hildon-this, hildon-that, maemo-launcher-whatsit | 19:07 |
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| timeless | db48x: nice :) | 19:08 |
| timeless | you don't want build-dep flex | 19:08 |
| timeless | you want build-dep {thing you're going to work on} | 19:08 |
| timeless | which almost certainly isn't flex :) | 19:08 |
| db48x | oh, right | 19:09 |
| db48x | well, that's what I did, and it told me it needs flex | 19:09 |
| timeless | personally i like living in the dark ages | 19:10 |
| timeless | if you're using some platform newer than 770, well, life gets err, more interesting :) | 19:11 |
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| theril | db48x: For build-dep to work the package must exist in your repositories | 19:11 |
| theril | What are you trying to compile? | 19:12 |
| timeless | theril: he can't say | 19:13 |
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| procto | my n800 shipped! It'll be here on wednesday | 19:22 |
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| lardman | theril: Thanks for the link. Looks like it wouldn't be a quick project | 19:34 |
| lardman | c u all tomorrow | 19:35 |
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| timeless | right | 19:41 |
| timeless | so, is it "GTK", or "GTK Toolkit", or something else? | 19:41 |
| db48x | former | 19:43 |
| db48x | see ATM Machine | 19:43 |
| db48x | or PIN Number | 19:43 |
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| inz | Maybe Gtk+ should be renamed to Gtk+ ToolKit (instead of Gimp ToolKit), so we'd have one of those oh-so-fun recursive acronyms | 19:49 |
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| mgedmin | how about Gtk+ Isn't a Toolkit for an even more funny denying-the-obvious recursive acronym | 19:53 |
| disq | inz: where's the osso-statusbar-cpu svn/cvs located? | 19:54 |
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| inz | disq, http://maemo-hackers.org/svn/osso-statusbar-cpu/trunk/ | 20:22 |
| disq | ah, m-h | 20:22 |
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| inz | disq, for performance reasons, it might make more sense to monitor the overall cpu usage, and only if it is too high for an certain amount of time, it would investigate who is using it | 20:28 |
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| disq | yeah that's the way i'm planning it | 20:29 |
| disq | afterall the high cpu monitor is to save battery | 20:29 |
| inz | yeah | 20:30 |
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| cbx33 | can anyone help me setup an n800 scrathbox environment | 21:50 |
| cbx33 | The following packages have unmet dependencies: | 21:51 |
| cbx33 | bluez-utils: Depends: module-init-tools | 21:51 |
| cbx33 | dpkg: Depends: coreutils or | 21:51 |
| cbx33 | textutils (>= 2.0-3) but it is not installable | 21:51 |
| _Monkey | i already had it that way, cbx33. | 21:51 |
| cbx33 | i can't dist-upgrade | 21:51 |
| cbx33 | why? | 21:51 |
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| cbx33 | _Monkey, ? | 21:52 |
| _Monkey | i haven't a clue, cbx33 | 21:52 |
| cbx33 | poo | 21:53 |
| cbx33 | been trying this for days now | 21:53 |
| cbx33 | it's this step where it fails | 21:54 |
| cbx33 | PAGER=less fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade | 21:54 |
| cbx33 | in the 3.2 INSTALL.txt guide | 21:54 |
| cbx33 | any one know why? | 21:54 |
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| keesj | cbx33: what kind or errors do you get?/ setup do you have? | 21:59 |
| cbx33 | keesj, | 21:59 |
| cbx33 | well | 21:59 |
| keesj | did you try to find out what that module-init-tools is? | 21:59 |
| cbx33 | keesj, that's just the start there's like 20 pacakges it can't install | 22:00 |
| cbx33 | want a pastebin? | 22:00 |
| cbx33 | :p | 22:00 |
| cbx33 | the main one holding things up is pkg-config | 22:00 |
| keesj | yes | 22:00 |
| cbx33 | http://pastebin.ca/622230 | 22:00 |
| cbx33 | see | 22:02 |
| cbx33 | :p | 22:02 |
| keesj | and "apt-get -f install" does not fix it right? | 22:02 |
| cbx33 | no tries to remove too much | 22:03 |
| keesj | when I run apt-cache policy pkg-config ( on 3.1) I get http://paste-it.net/2871 | 22:04 |
| keesj | did you install by hand? does 3.2 requires the creation of the virtual packages just like for 3.1? | 22:04 |
| cbx33 | pkg-config: | 22:04 |
| cbx33 | Installed: (none) | 22:04 |
| cbx33 | Candidate: (none) | 22:04 |
| cbx33 | Version Table: | 22:04 |
| cbx33 | no idea dude | 22:05 |
| cbx33 | this is a 3.1 install | 22:05 |
| cbx33 | hoping to upgrade to 3.2 | 22:05 |
| keesj | did you install it be "hand" or did you use the installer scripts , is your install debian based or not? | 22:05 |
| cbx33 | if i remove the /scratchbox dir I can start again right | 22:05 |
| cbx33 | i used the installer scripts | 22:05 |
| cbx33 | or so i thought | 22:05 |
| cbx33 | actuall | 22:05 |
| cbx33 | lemme ty something | 22:05 |
| disq | inz: the averaging last x samples code is ready, just calls a hildon_banner now. moving on to the process detection thingy | 22:06 |
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| cbx33 | ok keesj starting again | 22:08 |
| cbx33 | let's see how this goes | 22:08 |
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| cbx33 | should the maemo 3.1 installer, setup the targets for you too? | 22:28 |
| cbx33 | ahhh | 22:29 |
| cbx33 | i installed the maemo-scratchbox-install_3.1.sh | 22:29 |
| cbx33 | do I now need to do maemo-sdk-install.sh? | 22:30 |
| cbx33 | ahhh | 22:31 |
| cbx33 | ok | 22:31 |
| cbx33 | might be getting there | 22:31 |
| keesj | that more like it ! | 22:34 |
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| cbx33 | ok | 22:46 |
| cbx33 | now I'm getting the can't resolve repository | 22:46 |
| cbx33 | I edit /etc/resolv.conf | 22:47 |
| cbx33 | and nssswitch.conf | 22:47 |
| cbx33 | but it's still not resolving any ideas? | 22:47 |
| cbx33 | that fixed it last time | 22:47 |
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| keesj | cbx33: yes | 22:52 |
| keesj | vi /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf != | 22:53 |
| keesj | vi /etc/nsswitch.conf inside sbox! | 22:53 |
| keesj | change the line that contains | 22:53 |
| keesj | hosts with | 22:53 |
| keesj | hosts: files dns | 22:53 |
| _Monkey | keesj: that doesn't look right | 22:54 |
| keesj | bot? | 22:54 |
| keesj | _Monkey: So it's ubuntu you are running :p | 22:56 |
| _Monkey | OK, keesj. | 22:56 |
| cbx33 | coool | 22:56 |
| cbx33 | thanks keesj | 22:56 |
| cbx33 | forgot that | 22:56 |
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| keesj | _Monkey: can you please stop? | 22:57 |
| _Monkey | i haven't a clue, keesj | 22:57 |
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| cbx33 | wooooooooooooohooooooooo | 22:57 |
| cbx33 | it's updating | 22:57 |
| keesj | time to stop , now it's stil working :) bye | 22:58 |
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| cbx33 | ok cool | 23:03 |
| cbx33 | so now i have these things working | 23:03 |
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| cbx33 | how do i cross compile stuff | 23:04 |
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| newell | I am looking for anybody that has any information about btscanner on N800, OS 2007... the libbluetooth1-dev debian files are GONE from the mistral repository on maemo.org ;( | 23:15 |
| disq | did you try the gregale and scirocco repositories? tho you should try the bora rep first | 23:17 |
| disq | each release has a different codename in os2006 and that makes things complicated | 23:17 |
| newell | yeah is there a map that kinda puts all that into a table so people new to the maemo scene have an easier time of it? :) | 23:21 |
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| cbx33 | if i gcc something in the pc sdk of scratchbox | 23:32 |
| cbx33 | how do i compile it in the ARM one? | 23:32 |
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| CountDown | I'm getting a strange Python error on Maemo that I don't get on my Ubuntu machine: usb.USBError: couldn't opendir(): No such file or directory | 23:35 |
| CountDown | Any ideas? | 23:35 |
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