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| cbx33 | ping OgMaciel | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| CountDown | cbx33: Is that a suggestion for me? | 00:10 |
| cbx33 | no...hehe | 00:10 |
| cbx33 | sorry | 00:10 |
| OgMaciel | cbx33: pong | 00:10 |
| cbx33 | Did you point Lucas in my directoin? | 00:10 |
| OgMaciel | cbx33: that I did | 00:11 |
| cbx33 | I've done all I can to get his stuff looked at | 00:11 |
| cbx33 | I've even offered to be his "official" mentor | 00:11 |
| cbx33 | if ogra is busy | 00:11 |
| cbx33 | as I see he's getting loads of help | 00:11 |
| OgMaciel | cbx33: I figured you'd be the right person to look into this | 00:11 |
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| cbx33 | heh | 00:11 |
| cbx33 | I can but try | 00:11 |
| cbx33 | got my scratchbox all set up now | 00:11 |
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| OgMaciel | cbx33: that is better that what he ahd :) | 00:11 |
| Pio | is it safe to change 'user's shell? | 00:11 |
| OgMaciel | s/that/than | 00:12 |
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| cbx33 | doko is looking into it tomorrow | 00:12 |
| cbx33 | and I emailed leslie at google about it tii | 00:12 |
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| Veggen | hmm. Tempted by the commmunication beta thing... | 01:20 |
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| CountDown | Anyone know why /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current is linked to /lib/modules/2.6.18-omap1, which doesn't exist? | 01:22 |
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| CountDown | Xark: Thanks for the pointer for booting from the the MMC. I just finished and it works great. | 01:47 |
| Veggen | hmmf. Gotta wait till tomorrow, atleast.for the communication beta-thing. Known bug. | 01:50 |
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| Luria | are there any tools for maemo development on windows | 03:53 |
| Luria | or do i have to use the dev vm? | 03:53 |
| gla55_ | that everyone would recommend.. | 03:53 |
| gla55_ | i guess you could write python without as is | 03:54 |
| Luria | what i thought | 03:54 |
| Luria | no biggie | 03:54 |
| SeRi | is Konttori in? | 03:55 |
| SeRi | does any body know whar the file name for the top toolbar and the side toolbar in the main UI? I am trying to change my themes top and side img | 03:55 |
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| SeRi | any body? | 04:10 |
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| pupnik | http://pimlico-project.org/dates.html#screenshots that looks like a decent calendar app.. | 04:46 |
| pupnik | i dunno what others are using | 04:47 |
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| Vertoo | thanks, i have been trying to get a cal for awhile | 04:47 |
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| pupnik | I'd like to create a job position for myself at Nokia. Description: Surf the web and look for candidate apps to be integrated in the core it2006/2007 repository, send feedback to authors on packaging problems etc, fix what can be fixed quickly. | 04:53 |
| Vertoo | lol. thats what they have the community for. we do it all for free | 04:55 |
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| megabyte405 | Dates is kind of clumsy | 05:01 |
| megabyte405 | I like the GPE calendar a lot better | 05:02 |
| megabyte405 | and it syncs | 05:02 |
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| Vertoo | you got a link? | 05:03 |
| megabyte405 | Vertoo: http://cleardefinition.com/page/Sync_Evolution_and_GPE_on_N800/ | 05:07 |
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| Vertoo | thanks | 05:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody tell me how to show the cursor on the N800 for use with Synergy? | 05:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Script on the garage doesn't seem to work. | 05:22 |
| megabyte405 | Vertoo: np - if you find problems with the instructions, let me know - that's my web site | 05:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Nevermind, fixed it. Thanks guys! :P | 05:26 |
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| Luria | has there been any progress on the BT mouse front? | 05:32 |
| Vertoo | megabyte405: i dont need to sync anything, and im sure many others don't either. also have red pill set up and all, so a one click install at the top would be nice. from one devesigner to another, a button at the top, maybe a nice gel effect with mouse over effect. green with white would look good | 05:32 |
| megabyte405 | :D | 05:32 |
| megabyte405 | The point of the page really is to get syncing | 05:32 |
| megabyte405 | I suppose I could link more directly to the one-click install files | 05:32 |
| megabyte405 | you don't need red pill for them | 05:32 |
| Vertoo | ya, cause just skimming through there i couldn't find a one click. and dont really have time to read the whole thing lol | 05:33 |
| Luria | guess not :-/ | 05:34 |
| megabyte405 | Luria: never tried | 05:35 |
| megabyte405 | there, now I put the link in the install gpe section in addition to the "what you need" section, for those low on attention or patience :D | 05:35 |
| Vertoo | besides that, you will find that people are as lazy as they can be. most wont get the most out of their nokias cause they dont wanna go through the trouble of finding apps and all. its a shame | 05:36 |
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| Vertoo | is this your first website? or have you been developing for a while? | 05:42 |
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| Vertoo | megabyte405: ^ | 05:43 |
| megabyte405 | Vertoo: I've been developing for a while, but I didn't put a lot of effort into this because I needed to bootstrap it quick for Google Summer of Code | 05:43 |
| megabyte405 | so it is certainly not my best work | 05:43 |
| megabyte405 | I know it's a little wordy - but I wanted to get enough keywords in there so anybody searching would find the stuff - before I made that page, there was no N800 GPE sync instructions online | 05:44 |
| Vertoo | gotcha. may i suggest something? | 05:45 |
| megabyte405 | sure | 05:45 |
| megabyte405 | but do keep in mind, this is not my masterpiece - it's a working document | 05:45 |
| Vertoo | since your target audience will likely read that on their nokia, a simple anchor navigation would improve it alot, i a. browsing on mine, and still cant find that one click install just by browsing through it. | 05:46 |
| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: did you find the answer yet? | 05:47 |
| megabyte405 | nokia is not my target market for the site | 05:47 |
| megabyte405 | it's my personal web site/document storage - I just happened to write a page useful for nokia folks | 05:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, it's working. Thanks. | 05:47 |
| Vertoo | i understand the document style site, which is why navigation is essential. | 05:47 |
| megabyte405 | I should add internal anchor navs to the site engine, though, that would be useful | 05:47 |
| pupnik | i didn't know there is a script. How did you get it working? I would like an easy way to enable the cursor *only* when synergy is running | 05:48 |
| pupnik | because cursor breaks xsp pixel doubling when you touch the screen | 05:48 |
| Vertoo | i didn't look at the site, just the page. | 05:48 |
| * megabyte405 is using a mildly-to-heavily hacked up wiki engine | 05:48 | |
| * megabyte405 adds internal navs to the RFE list | 05:48 | |
| rhsanborn | Is there a doc somewhere that explains the basic methods to compile software using the sk? (using indt image) | 05:48 |
| megabyte405 | rhsanborn: same way you would on linux | 05:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, it can only be changed back and forth after a reboot, so I don't see any way to have it change only with Synergy activation. | 05:49 |
| rhsanborn | megabyte405: great, thanks | 05:49 |
| megabyte405 | easiest thing to do is to get debian source packages and do dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot inside of them | 05:49 |
| Vertoo | excuse me if i sound pretentious or come off rude. i have been designing for a few years, mostly personal stuff, but i have always appreciated others input | 05:49 |
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| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: so much to do, so little time | 05:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 05:50 |
| megabyte405 | Vertoo: no, that's a good point | 05:51 |
| megabyte405 | It would be relatively easy for me to add an automatic anchor at each heading | 05:51 |
| megabyte405 | the harder part is coming up with a sane way to refer to it, but that's not too bad | 05:52 |
| megabyte405 | I generally keep pages small enough that I don't need anchors, but it probably helps search engine stuff too, I bet | 05:52 |
| Vertoo | ya it does, plus when people can jump the page to exactly where they need to go they like it more. | 05:54 |
| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: you know about the hack to prevent the enter key from bringing-up the onscreen keyboard in synergy? | 05:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Nope, what is it? | 06:01 |
| pupnik | maemo-gtk-im-switch xim | 06:01 |
| pupnik | i haven't found how to switch it back | 06:02 |
| megabyte405 | pupnik: presumably you need to find out the input method name for the virtual keyboard, to replace "xim" (X Input Method) with the appropriate hildon one | 06:03 |
| megabyte405 | does that help any? | 06:03 |
| pupnik | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_setupkeyboard/ | 06:04 |
| pupnik | ~ $ | 06:05 |
| infobot | well, $ is a dollar sign | 06:05 |
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| pupnik | maemo-gtk-im-switch osso-input-method | 06:05 |
| pupnik | hmm now i have them both working | 06:05 |
| pupnik | ah no it's exclusive | 06:06 |
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| megabyte405 | pupnik: right | 06:10 |
| megabyte405 | you can only have one active input method at a time | 06:10 |
| Luria | speaking of input, is there a transparency hack for the keyboard? | 06:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That would be SWEET | 06:12 |
| Luria | hmmmm my n800 is somehow connecting to a wep encrypted ap | 06:12 |
| megabyte405 | Luria: without the key? If it's "open system" it will connect but not get anywhere | 06:13 |
| megabyte405 | and will probably report that it has a "link-local IP address" | 06:13 |
| Luria | no, nevermind | 06:13 |
| Luria | two with the same ssid | 06:13 |
| pupnik | if anyone's looking for a project, we could use a generic X keyboard that could be popped-up manually and generate x keyboard events... e.g. xvkbd | 06:14 |
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| Luria | how is the example code on the maemo tutorial licensed? | 06:37 |
| Luria | oh never mind, gfdl, i see | 06:37 |
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| rhsanborn | hrm, you cant run a vmware image without a gui? | 06:43 |
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| pupnik | correct | 06:43 |
| rhsanborn | thats unfortunate | 06:43 |
| rhsanborn | trying to run it remotely through ssh | 06:44 |
| megabyte405 | rhsanborn: get vmware server isntead of vmware player | 06:51 |
| megabyte405 | still lowercase free | 06:51 |
| CountDown | Has anyone successfully used libusb on the N800 in USB host mode? | 06:51 |
| CountDown | It worked fine on the 770, but I get a "file not found" sort of error on the N800. | 06:52 |
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| Xark | CountDown: Hello. How are you connecting the USB device to the N800? The "hub" method, or do you have a special cable? | 06:55 |
| CountDown | Xark: I've hacked up a special cable that provides 5V from a 9V battery. | 06:56 |
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| CountDown | Xark: It's the same set up I used on the 770. | 06:56 |
| CountDown | I've also enabled USB host mode through the flasher-3.0 program, just like on the 770. | 06:57 |
| vertoo_ | Noob question, why do you need any V there at all? Isn't it just a usb to an already powered device? | 06:57 |
| CountDown | vertoo_: Most USB devices expect to be powered from the USB host. | 06:58 |
| Xark | CountDown: Hmm. Have you read that the flasher option works on the N800 (or is that what you are experimenting for)? | 06:58 |
| CountDown | Xark: I thought I saw that somewhere. Maybe I should double check. :) | 06:59 |
| Xark | CountDown: You are trying to access a USB flash drive? | 06:59 |
| Xark | CountDown: Since I have read that the USB hardware is different, it seems likely that there might need to be a driver/kernel change. | 06:59 |
| CountDown | Xark: I'm trying to access a custom microcontroller device. | 06:59 |
| CountDown | Xark: What's the latest version of the flasher? | 07:00 |
| Xark | CountDown: Neat. | 07:00 |
| CountDown | vertoo_: Also, if the host isn't powered, some kernels won't connect to devices unless they detect power on the USB port. | 07:00 |
| vertoo_ | CountDown: I see, I've had problems with a few usb ports (esp on the front of cases with 6+ comming from factory) this is a nice work around for something like that where they can't support the power? | 07:00 |
| CountDown | Xark: It was neat, until it stopped working! :) | 07:01 |
| Xark | CountDown: The flasher you are using is the Nokia official one? If so, 3.0 appears to be the latest. | 07:01 |
| CountDown | vertoo_: Could be a work around for that, yes. | 07:02 |
| CountDown | Xark: Hmmm... the other differences are the versions of the software. | 07:02 |
| CountDown | Oops, have to run. I'll be back later. | 07:02 |
| * Xark used "init_flasher3.1" (IIRC) for the MMC boot mod. That one appears to be a bit different (and non-official). | 07:03 | |
| Xark | CountDown: OK, Take it easy. | 07:03 |
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| vertoo_ | anyone got a good windows XP/Mac OS X solution for streaming media over the internet to be accessed like a internet radio station? | 07:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Quicktime Streaming Server | 07:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you can get your hands on it. | 07:47 |
| vertoo_ | I have a domain pointing at my ip address and a slim server set up on there, but it didn't work | 07:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not sure of anything free, though. | 07:47 |
| vertoo_ | And the quicktime solution didn't fare well either | 07:47 |
| vertoo_ | The quicktime thing I found tried to stream through my mic | 07:47 |
| vertoo_ | which is pretty dumb | 07:47 |
| vertoo_ | it didn't have an option to stream files | 07:48 |
| vertoo_ | it seems that anti-piracy laws make this feet much more difficult | 07:48 |
| pupnik | Re: SNES and speed: Transparency doesn't suck up all the speed, drawing all the background layers so it can find out what to make transparent does. Therefore, it can almost double the work of the gfx engine before it even gets to the "transparency" part (as the snes works by taking background layers and using a color subtraction or addition technique). -Squidge | 07:49 |
| vertoo_ | GeneralAntilles: How do you get music onto your IT? (as in you personally) | 07:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Rhapsody and MP3 | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just stick the SD card into the card reader and copy | 07:57 |
| vertoo_ | Does rhapsody cost? | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 07:57 |
| vertoo_ | Ya, I know how to move files | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | 12.99/mo or something | 07:57 |
| vertoo_ | Eh, | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | :P | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | It works for me | 07:57 |
| vertoo_ | I think I will pursue my idea of streaming music | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | I really like the standup stuff they have on there. | 07:57 |
| vertoo_ | I think I am getting close | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | iTunes 6 | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or some reasonable UPnP solution | 07:58 |
| vertoo_ | but can I access that easily from anywhere? | 07:58 |
| vertoo_ | check this out | 07:58 |
| vertoo_ | http://woopacha.homelinux.com:9000 | 07:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, true. | 07:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | How's your upstream bandwidth? | 07:59 |
| vertoo_ | fine | 07:59 |
| vertoo_ | I don't know a Mb count | 07:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What does squeeze stream as? | 07:59 |
| vertoo_ | but my downstream is at 6-8Mb | 07:59 |
| vertoo_ | mp3 | 07:59 |
| vertoo_ | well | 07:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does it work with the N800? | 07:59 |
| vertoo_ | it streams as the file type it finds | 07:59 |
| vertoo_ | but my library is all mp3 | 07:59 |
| vertoo_ | so far it doesn't work at all | 07:59 |
| vertoo_ | Ive gotten so far as it "thinking" its playing | 08:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nice library. :D | 08:00 |
| vertoo_ | but I have yet to get sound from it on my Mac, N800, windows, linux or a few other windows environments | 08:00 |
| vertoo_ | Thanks | 08:00 |
| pupnik | here's the DrPocketSNES for Nokia 770 & 800 WIP. Any questions just drop me a privmsg. http://pupnik.de/DrPocketSnes_Nokia_The_Horror.tg | 08:01 |
| pupnik | here's the DrPocketSNES for Nokia 770 & 800 WIP. Any questions just drop me a privmsg. http://pupnik.de/DrPocketSnes_Nokia_The_Horror.tgz | 08:01 |
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| pupnik | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=60519#post60519 DrPocketSnes / SNES Nokia 770 / 800 thread here | 08:19 |
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| bigkahuna | anyone know of a ported app like ettercap for the N800? | 08:40 |
| pupnik | http://medialab.freaknet.org/~skler/ettercap_0.7.1.tar.gz | 08:43 |
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| pupnik | untar it on root tree. no GTK support only shell. I have one problem with iptables, can't initialize iptables table NAT see /etc/etter.conf. Run it with --unoffensive tag for resolve iptables error. | 08:43 |
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| bigkahuna | tried it... no luck | 08:47 |
| bigkahuna | think it has something todo with libnet | 08:50 |
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| bigkahuna | .......... | 09:11 |
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| CountDown | So, according to http://www.muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ it is possible to use the N800 in USB host mode, but it requires a kernel patch. Has anyone successfully tried this? | 09:59 |
| CountDown | Also, there is mention of the N800 USB chipset providing up to 100mA at 5V. This would be a big improvement. Has anyone verified this? | 10:00 |
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| CountDown | Xark: Have you had any luck recompiling the kernel using the GCC toolchain on the N800? | 10:05 |
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| Xark | CoutDown: I haven't tried recompiling the kernel yet. Haven't really felt a need so far. | 10:09 |
| CountDown | Xark: I'll probably be feeling the need real soon, but I might set up the scratchbox dev environment instead. | 10:11 |
| Xark | CountDown: One thing I have found is that my unit isn't 100% reliable. I notice that some of the Internal compiler errors I was experiencing are intermittant (I can try "make" again and it will work). So I suspect either hardware problems or some kind of software corruption. | 10:11 |
| Xark | CountDown: I am wondering if you have seen any "flakey" behavior like that. | 10:12 |
| Xark | CountDown: Since I had similar problems when running from jffs, I don't suspect my MMC fs as the cause. | 10:12 |
| Xark | CountDown: What features are you missing in the stock kernel? | 10:13 |
| Xark | CountDown: USB stuff? | 10:13 |
| CountDown | Xark: I haven't noticed anything flakey, but I only needed GCC to compile a single library and probably won't be using it again soon. | 10:15 |
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| CountDown | Xark: I need to add a patch to the stock kernel so that USB host mode can be enabled. | 10:16 |
| CountDown | What I was hoping to be a one day effort looks like it will take closer to a week. | 10:16 |
| Xark | CountDown: Yeah, I haven't really noticed much else but gcc "randomly" die (not to say I haven't seen apps crash...). | 10:16 |
| Veggen | Hmm. USB host mode on N800 is sort of interesting. I'd like to use it as a field upload device for my camera. | 10:18 |
| Xark | CountDown: You are trying to get your N800 to where you already had your N770 (with respect to your device)? | 10:18 |
| Veggen | (when on scout trips, for example. Parents like that, seeing what their kids do) | 10:18 |
| CountDown | Xark: Yeah, that's what really gets me about this... it was working so well with the 770. | 10:19 |
| Xark | Veggen: That would be pretty handy. Or more songs in the field for your DAP. :) | 10:19 |
| Veggen | Xark: oh, I'd probably rather use the N800 for DAP ;) | 10:19 |
| CountDown | Veggen: I'm really surprised it's not in the stock kernel. | 10:20 |
| Veggen | CD: yes, it's rather annoying | 10:20 |
| Veggen | They should also - at least as an add-on - provide a hub/cables that actually provided the N800s port with power. | 10:20 |
| Xark | CountDown: At least there seems to be pretty good doc for rebuilding the kernel (unlike rebuilding the toolchain). :-) | 10:21 |
| Veggen | but, I think there's the business people, not the geeks, that decides what'll be in the stock install. | 10:21 |
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| Veggen | looks definitely like t. | 10:21 |
| CountDown | Veggen: Ha! I don't think business folk even know what a kernel is. | 10:22 |
| CountDown | Veggen: My guess is that the new chipset posed problems that they didn't have time to address. | 10:22 |
| Veggen | CD: oh, they'll need the input from the geeks. But pick random features that the geek tell them they can have, based on buzzwords? | 10:23 |
| CountDown | Xark: Which doc are you referring to? | 10:23 |
| Veggen | CD: could also be an explanation ;) | 10:23 |
| Xark | CountDown: I think there was a wiki page on rebuilding the kernel. | 10:23 |
| CountDown | Veggen: True. | 10:23 |
| CountDown | Xark: Thanks, I'll take a look. | 10:24 |
| Xark | CountDown: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_kernel_guide_bora.html | 10:24 |
| CountDown | Xark: Ah, great. Thanks. | 10:25 |
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| guardian | morning maemo | 10:32 |
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| pupnik | hi | 10:38 |
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| mk8 | Hi to all | 10:38 |
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| pupnik | heya | 10:38 |
| pupnik | haven't found anyone to pick-up the pocketsnes project | 10:40 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 10:48 |
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| pupnik | muh | 10:49 |
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| * pupnik wonders how ARM9 bogomips match-up to x86 bogomips | 11:11 | |
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| saiam | should telepathy-modules work work right away with the N800 voip application after they've been compiled and installed? | 11:15 |
| saiam | is there any more documentation of the Mission Control? (or is it even essential to know anything about it) | 11:15 |
| pupnik | what are you talking about | 11:18 |
| saiam | if I compile some telepathy-module (eq. telepathy-sofiasip) and install it | 11:21 |
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| saiam | what will I have to do to get support for it into the UI? | 11:21 |
| saiam | IT OS 2007 IM and VoIP applications use Telepathy right? So you should just be able to compile your own telepathy component for some protocol and use it? Of course it probably isn't so straightforward. | 11:23 |
| pupnik | ah | 11:23 |
| pupnik | google search and maemo-developers list | 11:23 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:25 |
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| lardman | morning | 11:30 |
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| jani | morning .. | 11:35 |
| lardman | pupnik: You've seen the table here: http://www.clifton.nl/index.html?bogomips.html ? | 11:37 |
| lardman | pupnik: What does the N800 say at boot? | 11:37 |
| pupnik | i remember n800 being around 300 bogomips. the n770 reports about 125 | 11:38 |
| pupnik | equivalent to about a 75mhz pentium | 11:38 |
| lardman | hmm | 11:38 |
| pupnik | cat /proc/cpuinfo for details | 11:38 |
| lardman | you might be better running a benchmarking program than comparing bogomips | 11:39 |
| lardman | risc vs cisc etc | 11:39 |
| pupnik | yeah | 11:39 |
| Xark | pupnik: Feels close to a 486-100 or so to me. :) | 11:39 |
| lardman | pupnik: some random ones here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/ | 11:39 |
| lardman | pupnik: Standard tests, so you should be able to compare against lists on the 'net, or compile them and run on x86 | 11:40 |
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| lardman | And for a more general comparison against a pentium-90 and an amd k6/233: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006382.html | 11:43 |
| pupnik | oh thanks - saves me time ty ty | 11:43 |
| lardman | ignore the n800 results on that page, I linked against a softfloat libm, hardfloat results here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006460.html | 11:43 |
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| lardman | last but not least, a table of those resutls for different embedded processors: http://hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Application_Processor_Benchmarks | 11:45 |
| matmo | hi, is the N770 a good buy at £70 and can it be updated to IT2007? I'm new to these things. | 11:46 |
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| lardman | matmo: 70GBP? | 11:48 |
| pupnik | IT2007 is unsupported on the N770. | 11:48 |
| matmo | lardman: yep, on play.com | 11:48 |
| lardman | matmo: There's a thing called hacker edition, which attempts to bring some 2007 components to the 770 | 11:48 |
| lardman | matmo: But you should accept that you need to be happy with it2006, or like hacking, or like being frustrated | 11:49 |
| matmo | ok, mainly I want to browse my own web server from another room (securely) - good for that? | 11:49 |
| lardman | matmo: Yes, certainly. My 770 now sits on my coffee table and is used for web browsing while I'm in front of the TV | 11:50 |
| matmo | and £70 is a good price? | 11:50 |
| matmo | (about to place an order ;-) | 11:50 |
| pupnik | i paid 330 euro and was insanely happy | 11:50 |
| pupnik | depends on your usage | 11:51 |
| Okko | What was that stuff about Maemo 4.0? | 11:51 |
| cbx33 | does vlc work on it os 2007 | 11:51 |
| Okko | Does it mean N800 will get a OS 2008 or that there will be N810 and N800 is down to hacker edition soon as well? | 11:51 |
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| lardman | Okko: Depends on how long it takes for the next one to come out | 11:52 |
| lardman | Okko: and whether Nokia want to invest the time, whether the chipset is the same (if they used an omap2420 the work would be reduced I imagine), etc. | 11:52 |
| wumpus | I don't think the N800 series is something they will release a new model of that soon | 11:54 |
| wumpus | but that's just a gut feeling, it's kind of a side project and they don't want to put too much development costs into new models | 11:54 |
| lardman | It would be interesting to know how many units they have sold | 11:55 |
| matmo | gulp, ordered one, hope I don't regret it, lol. Thanks for the answers | 11:55 |
| wumpus | indeed | 11:55 |
| lardman | matmo: You won't, it's a cool device | 11:56 |
| wumpus | yeah very cool | 11:56 |
| matmo | great | 11:56 |
| cbx33 | the n800 rocks | 11:56 |
| lardman | cbx33: Oh yes, but it's not 70GBP | 11:57 |
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| cbx33 | so anyone know about vlc? | 11:58 |
| cbx33 | i heard v4l is ok for the n800 | 11:58 |
| * pupnik snuffles at the OMAP3430 | 11:58 | |
| cbx33 | i wanted to stream data from the camera over the net | 11:58 |
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| pupnik | It looks like the TI Omap 3420/3430 IVA2+ accelerator will encode/decode h.264 at a max res of 720x480. | 12:03 |
| pupnik | perfect match for the tablets | 12:03 |
| inz | they're missing 80 pixels in width | 12:05 |
| matmo | ok I'm off but I'll be back when I get it (sometime after the 20th). See ya! | 12:07 |
| pupnik | enjoy matmo | 12:07 |
| matmo | ty | 12:07 |
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| cy- | sup | 12:22 |
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| pupnik | http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/imagine_3d_benchmark_trooper.jpg pic of 3d benchmark running on the N800 omap 2420 | 12:36 |
| pupnik | (!) | 12:37 |
| wumpus | I suppose it's with a reason it doesn't show fps | 12:42 |
| alterego | The OMAP2420 has a pretty nifty 3D accelerator chip. | 12:44 |
| alterego | The OMAP2420 is used in the iPhone and the Nokia N95, which both take advantage of the graphics acceleration. Shame the N800 doesn't. | 12:45 |
| alterego | SDL + OpenGL ES would be funky :D | 12:45 |
| pupnik | hmm a number of videos on youtube showing off the OMAP 2420 3d on the nokia n95 phone | 12:46 |
| Veggen | yay for iphone. | 12:46 |
| pupnik | looks good enough to be not-useless | 12:46 |
| Veggen | Seems that an iphone will do about 18k requests a second, or 10 Mbps bandwith, while on a wifi network. | 12:46 |
| Veggen | pupnik: That was a sarcastic "yay" :) | 12:47 |
| jani | http://duggmirror.com/apple/The_iPhone_is_a_piece_of_shit_and_so_is_your_face/?u=iphone =) | 12:47 |
| Veggen | http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/071607-duke-iphone.html | 12:47 |
| * pupnik isn't interested in fancy phones though | 12:48 | |
| pupnik | tablet + cheap phone = win | 12:48 |
| Veggen | pupnik: Not unless they're more open than today. | 12:49 |
| Veggen | pupnik: An N800 with builtin GSM *would* be interesting. | 12:49 |
| Veggen | but failing that, N800 with a cheap phone is better than a not-so-open smartphone. | 12:49 |
| pupnik | seems to be 1/2 1/2 split among IT enthusiasts. I'm in the 'no phone in the tablet' segment. | 12:50 |
| jani | that 18k requests per sec sounds a bit fishy to mee thou.. | 12:50 |
| Veggen | jani: well, up to, in bursts, it seems. | 12:50 |
| jani | Veggen: is that from single phone or bunch of them ? | 12:51 |
| Veggen | no idea, but well. | 12:51 |
| Veggen | still, it looks like it's broken, arp-wise. | 12:51 |
| jani | definetly and in such place as campus where there's bound to be early adopters and techies thats a big problem but that number just sticks out abit | 12:53 |
| jani | and to be on the safe side, iphone sucks =) | 12:53 |
| bedboi | jani: LOL | 12:53 |
| Veggen | jani: It'll appeal to the apple crows. | 12:53 |
| Veggen | eh, crowd. | 12:53 |
| bedboi | jani: that link rules :) | 12:53 |
| cbx33 | once flashed into R&D mode can you go back | 12:54 |
| Veggen | jani: I'm not an OSX fan myself, because I come from the unix side, and MacOS X is sort of "you know it's unix, but start digging into the OSX stuff, and none of it looks familiar at all". | 12:54 |
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| pupnik | looks like the OMAP 3430 / 3420 ARM Cortex A8 core might be able 2x faster than the N800 | 12:55 |
| pupnik | s/able/about/ | 12:55 |
| infobot | pupnik meant: looks like the OMAP 3430 / 3420 ARM Cortex A8 core might be about 2x faster than the N800 | 12:55 |
| Veggen | (and I know a couple of people involved in making "desktop *nix concept" for the university, and MacOS X is significantly harder than OSX, management-wise) | 12:56 |
| Veggen | eh, *than Linux* | 12:56 |
| lardman | pupnik: what articles did you get the photo from? | 12:57 |
| pupnik | lost the link sorry | 12:58 |
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| pupnik | Lardman, what do you think of this claim.. "The new ARM Cortex-A8 processor delivers up to 2,000 Dhrystone MIPS" | 13:01 |
| pupnik | lardman: no it wasn't | 13:01 |
| lardman | pupnik: hang on let me look at my results, and okay | 13:01 |
| lardman | pupnik: Curious as my N800 manages 200000.0 dhrystones | 13:02 |
| pupnik | so 2000 dmips = 2,000,000,000 dhrystones? | 13:03 |
| lardman | I guess so | 13:03 |
| lardman | factor of 1000 | 13:03 |
| lardman | pretty impressive | 13:03 |
| pupnik | heh. if the core is 2x as fast as the 2420, i'm sold | 13:05 |
| jani | lardman: well, the image was 640x480 which sounds a bit fishy if its really is n800 .. | 13:05 |
| lardman | supposedly there are faster versions on the omap2420 | 13:05 |
| lardman | jani: I think pupnik's comment above was saying that it wasn't from an n800, just from an omap2420 | 13:05 |
| pupnik | right | 13:06 |
| pupnik | "The ARM Cortex-A8 processor delivers up to 2,000 DMIPS. By comparison, current ARM 9 chips typically achieve around 150-300 DMIPS." | 13:06 |
| lardman | yeah, strange that | 13:06 |
| lardman | http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8127/arm-unveils-next-generation-chip-design/ ? | 13:06 |
| pupnik | heh | 13:06 |
| lardman | see the last comment :D | 13:07 |
| lardman | ah, DMIPS isn't == dhrystones/1e6 | 13:10 |
| pupnik | hrm. 'd'=dishonest, deceptive... :/ | 13:10 |
| pupnik | oh | 13:10 |
| lardman | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhrystone, see the Results sectioon | 13:10 |
| lardman | Strange wording there. Why just divide by an arbitrary number, surely they mean that the dhystone loops/s has to be divided by mips on the device in question | 13:12 |
| lardman | ah, perhaps one just multiplies the mips value by the arbitrary number and doesn't need to run dhrystone? | 13:13 |
| sp3000 | lardman: you'd divide by an arbitrary factor to scale the dhrys to a kind of mips scale where it coincides at the 1mips machine mentioned | 13:14 |
| lardman | sp3000: But you gain little by doing it, other than normalising the data | 13:15 |
| lardman | sp3000: and it wouldn't work where mips are not proportional to dhrystone loops/s | 13:15 |
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| sp3000 | taht just means your definition of work differs from that indended by the scaling | 13:16 |
| pupnik | what do you think the chances are that there will be an n800 successor? and will it use omap3? | 13:16 |
| lardman | If we go by the numbers in the article, it appears it will be ~10x faster | 13:17 |
| pupnik | if it's 2x faster, it means dumb people like me will be able to port over a lot more games and emus | 13:18 |
| * pupnik points to snes9x at 4-8 fps on the 770 without sound. | 13:18 | |
| gla55_ | though, if the 10x faster speeds are for over ghz | 13:18 |
| lardman | well if you divide my loops/s (200,000) by the DMIPS adjustment factor (1757) you get 113.8304 DMIPS | 13:20 |
| lardman | So it's in the right ball park, but a bit slower than the numbers given | 13:20 |
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| pupnik | aha the 'J' in ARMv5TEJ stands for Jazelle - Java JIT | 13:23 |
| lardman | yep, though not jit, direct execution | 13:23 |
| pupnik | oh | 13:23 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 13:29 |
| alterego | Mornin' | 13:30 |
| pupnik | "?Proving the extensibility of the OMAP 3 architecture, we are demonstrating the ARM Cortex-A8 processor running at speeds up to 1GHz on TI?s low-power 65-nanometer (nm) technology" | 13:32 |
| pupnik | i wonder if they will have a fast solution for addressing a 800x480 display | 13:33 |
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| X-Fade_ | I think that the problem we have now is because of the external LCD controller. That needs to be eliminated in a next version? | 13:34 |
| pupnik | yes from what i understand | 13:35 |
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| Komarov | hi all | 13:47 |
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| Komarov | Tried to reinstall Python after updating firmware... went into red pill mode, went to maemo.org into app catalog and clicked to a single click install file | 13:48 |
| Komarov | It says it can't install Python because several libs missing: libglade2-0, libsdl-ttf2.0-0, libgdbm3, libreadline4 | 13:49 |
| Komarov | I have no idea where to install it from, can anyone help? | 13:49 |
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| sKaBoy | Komarov, http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/installation.html | 13:50 |
| sKaBoy | Komarov, click first on the install for the "base repository" | 13:51 |
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| Komarov | great, thanks! | 13:54 |
| Komarov | I actually try to send low-level escape sequences to bluetooth printer via bluez, it'd be great to find some guru in this field | 13:55 |
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| Cheban | Ùî çà òåìà ,ãà ? | 14:08 |
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| cbx33 | hey all | 14:13 |
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| * pupnik fantasizes about omap 3430 + maemo + nokia tablet | 14:15 | |
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| * cbx33 bursts pupniks bubble | 14:32 | |
| bedboi | damn i hate the n800 headphones ... the wire is too long and it twists and tangles too much | 14:33 |
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| cbx33 | is it a mike too | 14:34 |
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| pupnik | I picked up some Ultimate Ears 5.1 headphones | 14:38 |
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| disq | inz: got my mail? what do you think? | 14:45 |
| pupnik | http://alors.blogspirit.com/images/medium_bart_google.jpg (sfw) | 14:47 |
| inz | disq, /me slaps gmail around a bit with a large trout | 14:58 |
| disq | check your spam folder :) | 14:59 |
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| inz | disq, yeah, there it was, with 2 or 3 maemo-developers and one easytag mailing list message | 14:59 |
| inz | disq, looks (c)lean, have you tested it? | 15:02 |
| disq | yeah i'm using it since yesterday | 15:03 |
| inz | disq, do you want commit access?-) | 15:03 |
| disq | serves as a notifier for "wtf is this site so slow?" (the answer is usually flash banners) | 15:03 |
| pupnik | http://www.virtio.com/products/page/0,2573,39,00.html OMAP 3430 simulator+SDK :) | 15:04 |
| disq | i could commit it sure :) | 15:04 |
| pupnik | you can also drop adlists into /etc/hosts | 15:04 |
| disq | i tested the three-part loop extensively (with a fopen to /tmp/ etc) and it's ok btw | 15:05 |
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| alterego | Anyone know when we're likely to see hildon 1.0.0? | 15:29 |
| alterego | There are quite a few functions that 1.0.0 has that my current version does not. So I'm wondering whether to implement them in Ruby-Maemo or not. | 15:30 |
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| keesj | alterego: how is it going? | 15:31 |
| pupnik | hah wow... N95 is 600 euro here | 15:31 |
| alterego | keesj, very well :) | 15:32 |
| alterego | I'll probably finish Hildon widgets tonight. | 15:32 |
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| keesj | are you using swig?, how's the runtime speed? | 15:33 |
| alterego | The runtime speed is pretty good. Though I've not tried it on the device yet. | 15:34 |
| disq | alterego: mmm, probably in chinook? (4.0) should ask nokia people | 15:35 |
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| alterego | keesj, and no. I'm not using SWIG. | 15:35 |
| keesj | alterego: what are you using ? | 15:36 |
| alterego | emacs | 15:36 |
| keesj | emacs as code generator? | 15:36 |
| alterego | I'm using some Ruby to auto generate stuff. But the guts I'm coding myself. | 15:37 |
| keesj | what is python hildon using? | 15:37 |
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| keesj | alterego: I am just interrested, | 15:37 |
| alterego | I don't know. | 15:38 |
| lmoura | keesj, pygtk codegen | 15:38 |
| disq | btw I committed a maxed cpu notification thingy to osso-statusbar-cpu. notifies with sound when the user cpu usage has been 90%+ for some time. if anybody's interested checkout (from maemo-hackers svn) and try | 15:38 |
| Veggen | I could see myself finding a nice ruby-using project for the N800 ;) | 15:38 |
| alterego | I've got some great ideas for Ruby-Maemo. | 15:38 |
| alterego | I'm gonna suprise you all I promise ;) Gonna be better than Python-Maemo ^_^ | 15:38 |
| Veggen | Both N800 development and ruby development is things I'm interested in, so it'll be a synergy, learning-wise :) | 15:38 |
| keesj | all the good looking apps are not using hildon! | 15:40 |
| alterego | Well, I'm really enjoying this. It's a great project for me. Because I'm studying hildon and ruby gnome2 at the same time ^_^ | 15:40 |
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| alterego | Getting to see all the guts of the libraries and how they're implemented. | 15:41 |
| keesj | yes it must be fun | 15:41 |
| keesj | alterego: why did you not yet test on a device? | 15:41 |
| alterego | keesj, don't know really. Just didn't see much point. | 15:42 |
| keesj | the "fun" part? | 15:42 |
| alterego | I'll probably test it on the device in a bit. When the battery is charged. | 15:42 |
| keesj | knowing how fast it it can be | 15:42 |
| alterego | Yah | 15:42 |
| alterego | to be honest, I don't really care how fast it is. I want it anyway :) | 15:43 |
| keesj | wxruby was a bit slow to start | 15:43 |
| alterego | After I've done this I'll maybe work on YARV/Ruby 1.9 to make sure we don't get left behind :) | 15:43 |
| disq | alterego: so? video out? :) | 15:44 |
| alterego | I've actually not looked into that yet disq :) | 15:44 |
| alterego | I think Ruby/Maemo is more important to me right now :D | 15:44 |
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| disq | alterego: that's what some people would call chickening out :P | 15:50 |
| Komarov | I actually try to send low-level escape sequences to bluetooth printer via bluez, it'd be great to find some guru in this field | 15:50 |
| alterego | disq, I just think Ruby-Maemo is more important, to me and the community. TV-Out, if the device is capable will happen eventually regardless. But after the Ruby Maemo GSoC project got cancelled I thought I'd take it upon myself to do it. | 15:51 |
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| Komarov | what's the packet name of the ssh-server for N800? | 16:03 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, Chinook beta announced. "Break N800 compatibility". That doesn't sound entirely good. | 16:03 |
| disq | ssh (or openssh?) | 16:03 |
| Komarov | it's a client | 16:03 |
| disq | it also installs the server | 16:03 |
| Jaffa | Ah, no, I misparsed. Chinook is "fully supported by the Nokia N800 Internet Tablet hardware". as is Diablo | 16:04 |
| disq | yes i was just reading that | 16:04 |
| disq | it's just the api break, and that's expected | 16:04 |
| Komarov | thanks | 16:05 |
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| Jaffa | disq: indeed. | 16:07 |
| Komarov | I created a helloworld.py program but when I try to exec it, I receive "Permission denied message", even under root and after setting chmod a+x | 16:07 |
| s-ndh-c | Komarov: where is the file located? | 16:08 |
| s-ndh-c | fat32 is usualy mounted with noexec | 16:08 |
| s-ndh-c | which means you cant load shared objects from it nor can you execute binaries | 16:08 |
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| Komarov | in /media/mmc1 | 16:09 |
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| Komarov | Maybe that's because I have in the first line: #!/usr/bin/env python2.5 while I should have #!/usr/bin/python? | 16:09 |
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| lmoura | Komarov, are trying to run like ./helloworld? | 16:10 |
| lmoura | Komarov, try python2.5 helloworld.py | 16:10 |
| pupnik | i don't think you can force exec on fat32 at all | 16:11 |
| pupnik | on the nokia (correct me if i'm wrong) | 16:11 |
| Komarov | great, it works!! | 16:11 |
| Komarov | yeah, I moved it to /home/user | 16:11 |
| Komarov | I also have an example from bluez lib site which I can't exec | 16:12 |
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| Komarov | I try line 'import dbus', it says: | 16:12 |
| Jaffa | pupnik: edit noexec out of /etc/fstab and it'll work fine. | 16:12 |
| Komarov | bus = dbus.SystemBus() | 16:13 |
| pyhimys | Has anyone tried autoscan? | 16:13 |
| Komarov | AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'SystemBus' | 16:13 |
| pyhimys | Does it work on it2007? | 16:13 |
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| pyhimys | It looks quite much like nessus to me. | 16:13 |
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| Komarov | should I use osso insted of direct use of dbus? | 16:17 |
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| pupnik | Jaffa: i edited noexec out of fstab and rebooted, my file has +x for uog. i still get permission denied running from mmc1 (it2007he, n770) | 16:22 |
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| Jaffa | pupnik: that's.... odd. | 16:23 |
| bedboi | anyone knows if mpeg-2 plugin for gstreamer is available for maemo? | 16:24 |
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| gpd | I want to get my maemo mapper POI database into GPX|KML|other | 16:27 |
| gpd | I used an sqlbrowser to extract cvs of the table of points - now I just need to find a suitable format for gpsbabel | 16:27 |
| gpd | anyone done this to stop me reinventing the wheel? | 16:28 |
| lardman | interesting, two more toolchain releases supporting the n800, then a break (presumably) with elephanta (who makes up these names?) | 16:28 |
| Veggen | gpsbabel has a csv format import. | 16:29 |
| Veggen | (and export) | 16:29 |
| gpd | Veggen: good idea - I"ll check it out | 16:29 |
| lardman | Ah, Elephanta is another wind | 16:29 |
| eichi | if i put the n800 with usb on pc..is the extern sd-card the same like as a cardreader? can i use it to formate it? ir can i formate with the 800 itself? help | 16:29 |
| Veggen | I have some success actually uploading a fsck.{dos,vfat}-binary to the device and actually fsck the system, to get it fixed. | 16:31 |
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| Veggen | I guess you could just find an arm mkfs.vfat-binary, and do it on the device. | 16:31 |
| Veggen | (hmm, what options do you have on the cards, in the file browser, again? Don't you have "format"?) | 16:32 |
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| lardman | Anyone here running Sardine? Is it using glibc2.5 & gtk+2.10 already? | 16:32 |
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| gpd | gpsbabel -i unicsv -f poi.csv -o kml -F poi.kml <-- sweet | 16:35 |
| Jaffa | lardman: let's hope the next few releases have some major UI enhancements corresponding IT OS releases which have better built-in apps. | 16:35 |
| Jaffa | Intel's MID interface looks really interesting for a thumb-based device, using Hildon Desktop still | 16:36 |
| inz | lard, ACK on gtk+2.10(.12), no glibc2.5 (yet?) | 16:36 |
| disq | lardman: libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.12, so yes | 16:36 |
| disq | libc still 2.3.6 | 16:36 |
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| eichi | Veggen: i dont know, if there is formate | 16:43 |
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| timeless | anyone here @guadec? | 16:45 |
| timeless | (or however it's spelled) | 16:46 |
| disq | you spelled it right | 16:46 |
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| timeless | it's amusing to see how many hits there are on google for spelling it wrong :) | 16:47 |
| timeless | http://del.icio.us/rejon/gaudec :) | 16:47 |
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| disq | ari jaaksi has a keynote now afaik | 16:49 |
| timeless | so, no one's there? :( | 16:49 |
| lardman | inz, disq, Jaffa: thanks | 16:49 |
| lardman | Are the talks televised/internetised? | 16:50 |
| disq | no idea, looking around in guadec.org though | 16:50 |
| nomis | ari does the Q&A right now. | 16:50 |
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| lardman | Hmm, it's in Birmingham, if I'd realised I would have popped along to see what it's all about | 16:52 |
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| timeless | so what did air say? | 16:55 |
| timeless | ari | 16:55 |
| lardman | He's scheduled to finish @ 15.00 | 16:55 |
| timeless | (just goes to show you: the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing) | 16:55 |
| timeless | lardman: that's +5mins, no? | 16:56 |
| lardman | timeless: yep (sorry should have said the timezone too) | 16:56 |
| alterego | I wanted to go to GUADEC :( | 16:56 |
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| disq | quim said they were running late to ari's keynote (in the chinook announcement) so that's probably +5 mins | 16:56 |
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| lardman | ah well /me needs to do some work, will check back later & see if there's a video/summary about | 16:57 |
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| cosmo | has anyone run katix-efis successfully? | 17:01 |
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| tigert | kate herself, i guess :) | 17:08 |
| tigert | mail her for help? | 17:08 |
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| timeless | lardman: yep you should have :), it's ok | 17:09 |
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| _Shurik_ | mornin' | 17:13 |
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| trevarthan | pupnik: congrats on drpocketsnes! | 17:18 |
| trevarthan | How's the frame rate? Better than snes9x? | 17:19 |
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| pupnik | it doesn't compile yet trevarthan i'm asking people to help | 17:19 |
| trevarthan | oh. I thought you had it working... | 17:20 |
| pupnik | I embarked on what might be a reasonable path | 17:20 |
| pupnik | I should have documented my work though | 17:21 |
| trevarthan | I'm still not sure why you think it's going to be faster than snes9x. I don't think you're going to get much faster than SDL on the n800/770. | 17:21 |
| pupnik | the internals are much, much faster | 17:22 |
| trevarthan | What proof do you have of that? | 17:22 |
| pupnik | the gp2x boards and benchmarks | 17:22 |
| trevarthan | people have run snes9x on the gp2x and drpocketsnes and drpocketsnes is faster? | 17:23 |
| pupnik | yes | 17:23 |
| * Jaffa thought about going, since he lives about 30 miles from Birmingham, but couldn't justify the time off work. | 17:23 | |
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| trevarthan | what are the chances that is just because drpocketsnes uses a framebuffer rather than X11 + SDL? | 17:23 |
| eugene | i wish someone from maemo know it by now that the planet maemo is very broken | 17:23 |
| zuh | eugene: How is it broken? | 17:25 |
| zuh | Looks fine to me... | 17:25 |
| eugene | zuh: try to add the feed to a rss reader | 17:25 |
| pupnik | trevarthan: the snes ppu has to process many layers and do many additive effects, then there are transparency issues and in-scanline pallette changes and raster ops. all of that consumes orders of magnitude more time than the final blit. | 17:25 |
| tigert | sure we are in guadec | 17:26 |
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| tigert | greetings | 17:26 |
| pupnik | p/ | 17:27 |
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| X-Fade_ | eugene: Works for me[tm] ? | 17:28 |
| X-Fade_ | What kind of problems are you seeing? | 17:28 |
| Sho_ | hm, nice that the next two major versions of Maemo have been confirmed for the N800 | 17:28 |
| Sho_ | looks like they've learned from the N770 debacle | 17:28 |
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| eugene | X-Fade_: the feeds keep repeating itself everyday instead of showing me the new blog postings. | 17:28 |
| trevarthan | pupnik: I want to believe you, but 1.) you don't have a working version to prove it and 2.) Nothing on the DrPocketSnes site or the pocketsnes site states that they are faster than snes9x and why.... | 17:29 |
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| X-Fade | eugene: Ok, I will keep an eye on it. | 17:29 |
| eugene | X-Fade: i seen someone else complaining about this too. if you are using mugshot which aggregates the planet maemo's rss feed, it displays the same posts for the past couple of weeks... even though i read it like 14 times already. | 17:29 |
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| pupnik | i can dig up some info... will get back to you | 17:30 |
| eugene | same thing happening in google reader, and my n800 rss reader | 17:30 |
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| eugene | so i don't think it's my readers problem. | 17:30 |
| trevarthan | ok. thanks. I'm more likely to help out if you can prove that it's not wasted effort. :) | 17:30 |
| sciboy | Is a 770 still worth getting? | 17:30 |
| pupnik | put it this way sciboy - i don't think i'll ever sell mine | 17:31 |
| X-Fade | eugene: I will look into it and file a bug if I notice this too.. | 17:31 |
| eugene | X-Fade: thanks a lot | 17:31 |
| X-Fade | eugene: But the RSS feed source looks fine to me. No old articles that have a new date? | 17:31 |
| Sho_ | IMO the N770 has always been too weak hardware-wise to do a lot of interesting things with it | 17:31 |
| trevarthan | sciboy: I'd get an n800 if I were you. | 17:31 |
| sciboy | I would too if it wasn't going to cost me nearly a grand. | 17:32 |
| trevarthan | huh? they only cost 400USD... | 17:32 |
| eugene | X-Fade: monitor it for the next few days... | 17:32 |
| Fatal | only! | 17:32 |
| alterego | Oooo .. Hildon 1.0.0 is gonna be nice. | 17:32 |
| eugene | X-Fade: you will get to read old articles everyday :) | 17:32 |
| trevarthan | Fatal: :) | 17:32 |
| sciboy | They do, but the only retailer I could find in australia has nicely inflated prices. | 17:32 |
| tigert | oh | 17:33 |
| eugene | X-Fade: listen what thoughtfix has to say, the same thing, everyday. | 17:33 |
| trevarthan | oh. that sucks. sorry to hear that. | 17:33 |
| Fatal | so only 700USD for me to get the promised functionality! \o/ Yay! :) | 17:33 |
| eugene | oh yeah, good news, N770/800 is finally available in Singapore :) | 17:33 |
| tigert | browser.garage.maemo.org | 17:33 |
| tigert | fyi | 17:33 |
| bedboi | is usb networking working on n800? | 17:33 |
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| sciboy | eugene, IT IS?!?! | 17:33 |
| eugene | sciboy: yes :) | 17:34 |
| sciboy | eugene, I just got back from there. | 17:34 |
| sciboy | D= | 17:34 |
| eugene | sciboy: you can go to the Nokia shops here to buy one now :) | 17:34 |
| eugene | sciboy: really :) | 17:34 |
| trevarthan | bedboi: host mode? no, not yet. not working on linux yet. once that happens, maemo will follor. | 17:34 |
| * sciboy bashes his head against the table. | 17:34 | |
| trevarthan | s/follor/follow | 17:34 |
| eugene | sciboy: i got my n800 in US though :) | 17:34 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Yeah, I'm already fixing rendering problems :( | 17:34 |
| sciboy | eugene, Seen the prices? | 17:34 |
| eugene | sciboy: http://www.expansys.com.sg/zoompic.aspx?type=item&i=141019 | 17:34 |
| tigert | yea. it has bugs, but google calendar works better | 17:35 |
| eugene | sciboy: N800 SGD$724.95 | 17:35 |
| tigert | and google docs works too | 17:35 |
| bedboi | trevarthan: i'm not getting. i just want to make a connection between my pc and my n800 via usb cable | 17:35 |
| eugene | sciboy: http://www.expansys.com.sg/p.aspx?i=144770 | 17:35 |
| bedboi | it should be possilbe | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Even that website has a rendering bug in our screenshot: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/pics/maemo-org.png | 17:35 |
| bedboi | i've done it for years using my iPaq | 17:35 |
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| tigert | but sure there are bugs | 17:35 |
| eugene | sciboy: now i don't feel special anymore :) | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | tigert: But nothing too bad.. | 17:36 |
| trevarthan | bedboi: yeah, client mode works. You can use the n800 as a mobile storage device. shows up like an sd card. | 17:36 |
| X-Fade | tigert: The thing that _is_ bad, is that the browser website itself doesn't work on Opera :) | 17:36 |
| tigert | x-fade, yeah :) | 17:36 |
| bedboi | trevarthan: i don't care about storage device | 17:36 |
| tigert | oh, it doesnt? | 17:37 |
| bedboi | trevarthan: nevermind | 17:37 |
| trevarthan | bedboi: so you're doing some custom protocol? | 17:37 |
| tigert | whats important is the .install link anyway | 17:37 |
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| trevarthan | nice. | 17:37 |
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| sciboy | Anyway, 770 is still much easier on my wallet. | 17:37 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Or just install microb-browser from the repositor :) | 17:37 |
| X-Fade | s/repositor/repository/ | 17:37 |
| infobot | X-Fade meant: tigert: Or just install microb-browser from the repository :) | 17:37 |
| * timeless looks back | 17:39 | |
| timeless | what's wrong w/ http://browser.garage.maemo.org/pics/maemo-org.png | 17:39 |
| timeless | ? | 17:39 |
| X-Fade | timeless: extra line above navigation.. | 17:39 |
| X-Fade | timeless: And planet etc really all get a lot of extra lines. Don't know yet why it does that.. | 17:40 |
| dpb_ | doesn't fit there horizontally | 17:41 |
| Fatal | fixed layouts.. | 17:41 |
| dpb_ | you'd think it would be fixed for the device ;) | 17:42 |
| trevarthan | Oh sweet, maemo just got SIP support natively: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/#usage | 17:42 |
| X-Fade | dpb_: This mozilla engine renders it a few pixels wider.. Go figure ;) | 17:42 |
| disq | trevarthan: hey how's it going with kagu? | 17:42 |
| trevarthan | disq: still plugging away. Just added scrolling titles last night. Updated screenshots a few days ago: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/wiki/ScreenShots | 17:43 |
| Fatal | woop, dark orange on slightly brighter orange <3 [downloads] | 17:43 |
| timeless | x-fade: it could be worse | 17:43 |
| timeless | the browser web site temporarily had the install link on the second to last page | 17:43 |
| timeless | and you couldn't reach it w/ opera :( | 17:43 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Scroll back :) | 17:43 |
| X-Fade | That is what I told tigert :) | 17:44 |
| timeless | can you be specific about extra line? | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | I noticed this problem this afternoon already. | 17:44 |
| trevarthan | disq: I keep adding things on the TTD in front of the really important items. :( I'll get to my release milestone eventually though. I'm going to be adding audiobook support next so it will remember your playback position. AFAIK nothing for maemo has that functionality yet. | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Do you have the bowser installed? | 17:44 |
| timeless | sorry, i'm stuck in scrollback | 17:44 |
| timeless | x-fade: only on about 6 devices | 17:45 |
| timeless | but wirfi here is such a pain because they keep knocking over the wifi hotspots | 17:45 |
| X-Fade | Ok.. follow me ;) | 17:45 |
| disq | trevarthan: yeah no player has it yet. also maybe bookmark-position support? but it could be complicated in the ui | 17:45 |
| X-Fade | timeless: the line about 5 pixels above the navigation bar, should not be there at all. | 17:46 |
| disq | trevarthan: how about play mode support? repeat album, switch to next album, repeat one song | 17:46 |
| disq | currently i think it repeats the album indefinately | 17:46 |
| trevarthan | disq: I'm going to keep it real simple at first. 1.) Add PositionView. 2.) make all mp3s with audiobook* genre remember position by default. | 17:46 |
| timeless | you bmean the one under ma[e]mo? | 17:46 |
| X-Fade | timeless: And if you go to the 'intro' page from maemo.. between the orange word 'Inter' and 'Maemo provides...' | 17:47 |
| timeless | x-faade: fwiw, i'm the idiot responsible for the picture you were looking at | 17:47 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Tep.. | 17:47 |
| trevarthan | disq: I'm all for it. I've just got bigger fish to fry right now. I want to improve the playlist functionality too. | 17:47 |
| timeless | so feel free to blame me :) | 17:47 |
| disq | trevarthan: is it possible to add different player ui's without forking the code, in the current state? | 17:47 |
| X-Fade | timeless: I told Ferenc already this afternoon.. | 17:47 |
| timeless | hello world | 17:47 |
| * timeless is timeless | 17:47 | |
| timeless | all your bugs will belong to me | 17:47 |
| timeless | something like that :( | 17:48 |
| X-Fade | timeless: And I do all css related stuff on maemo.org ;) | 17:48 |
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| trevarthan | Themes? yes. there is nearly complete theme support right now. If by 'ui' you mean different widgets, then no, not yet. But I'm willing to accept any well designed widgets you create. | 17:48 |
| timeless | x-fade: nice to meet you | 17:48 |
| disq | trevarthan: i mean a completely different player ui. gtk instead of images, etc | 17:49 |
| trevarthan | oh, no. kagu is and will always be a pygame app. | 17:49 |
| disq | okay | 17:49 |
| trevarthan | you might take a look at pymp if you want a gtk player though. | 17:49 |
| trevarthan | it's simple, clean, and well designed. | 17:50 |
| Jaffa | tigert: woohoo :-) | 17:50 |
| jsmanrique | that "maemo-browser" looks promising | 17:51 |
| disq | i was thinking something in the lines of making different ui's, like a textmode ui, a gtk ui, and such | 17:51 |
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| jsmanrique | after years using minimo in differents devices, this looks really promising | 17:51 |
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| jsmanrique | congratulations to developers | 17:52 |
| trevarthan | disq: that's a neat idea. Do you think kagu adds enough functionality to the basic mplayer backend to warrant such a thing? | 17:52 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Just check the maemo website on your pc and on the N800. You will see gray lines at places you don't see them on your pc.. | 17:52 |
| lardman|afk | bedboi: You can do ethernet over usb | 17:52 |
| lardman|afk | bedboi: Iirc, you need to enable it via the flasher, and it stops dynatick working, so your battery will go flat quickly | 17:53 |
| disq | trevarthan: it has songdb, clean and proper code, etc | 17:53 |
| X-Fade | timeless: also notice the rendering bug at the right bottom of the secondary navigation 'Documentation Tutorials Roadmap' | 17:53 |
| lardman|afk | bedboi: You need to insmod the kernel module | 17:53 |
| trevarthan | disq: when I started kagu, I had three goals in mind: 1.) Make a GUI for A2DP support 2.) Play with my iphone like intertial scroll widget idea 3.) create a player that handles audio books well for maemo. | 17:53 |
| * Jaffa 's decided he'd love to be able to drag scroll any scrollable widget in its content area, and just use the scrollbar as a positional indicator. Preferably with a configurable (in Control Panel) amount of inertia too. | 17:53 | |
| trevarthan | disq: I've accomplished #1. I'm very close to finishing #3, and #2 will follow shortly. :) | 17:54 |
| jsmanrique | would "maemo-browser" work in a 770 device? | 17:54 |
| lardman|afk | bedboi: ignore my flasher comment, just modprobe/insmod the module. Got my wires crossed | 17:54 |
| * timeless looks back | 17:55 | |
| trevarthan | disq: unfortunately, for #2 I needed pygame. So that object structure is very pygame dependent with update loops and such. You don't need those with GTK. GTK is more callback based, I think. | 17:55 |
| disq | trevarthan: with multiple ui's, after finishing with pygame you could try evas for instance. would need a configurator that lets the user choose ui-type and ui-theme. | 17:55 |
| timeless | oh, you mean you don't make maemo look special for mobile devices? | 17:55 |
| *** lardman|afk is now known as lardman|gone | 17:55 | |
| timeless | we made the browser page work special on most devices | 17:55 |
| X-Fade | timeless: nope.. | 17:55 |
| timeless | e.g. we made it look awful on ie6 :) | 17:55 |
| timeless | and we made it vritually unusable in opera for n800 :) | 17:55 |
| timeless | actually, a minor fix for that went in a few moments ago | 17:56 |
| trevarthan | disq: is evas more like pygame or more like gtk? | 17:56 |
| disq | trevarthan: btw i still couldn't start the kagu-scanner pygtk thingy. messed around with osso-statusbar-cpu in my free time | 17:56 |
| disq | trevarthan: not sure, i'm guessing pygame | 17:56 |
| X-Fade | timeless: I make it work on Firefox, IE, Safari on Linux, Win and Mac.. | 17:56 |
| timeless | x-fade: ah yes, i didn't worry about that :) | 17:56 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Imagine the horror of that ;) | 17:56 |
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| timeless | i was happy that it showed garage, had a nice picture for carman | 17:56 |
| trevarthan | yeah, np. I wasn't expecting you to do much with it. But if you ever do, I'll really really appreciate it. Would save me a rather large step before I release a deb. | 17:57 |
| timeless | and kinda showed the word maemo w/o rendering glitches | 17:57 |
| X-Fade | timeless: When will they open the 'browser' project on garage? | 17:57 |
| Jaffa | If it's based on Gecko 1.9, how's it support ACID 2? | 17:57 |
| timeless | x-fade: i opened it a few mins ago, 15-20? | 17:57 |
| timeless | is it still not open? | 17:57 |
| timeless | the basic ui to open things seems broken | 17:58 |
| disq | trevarthan: i'll do it by the time you finish with repeat-one, repeat-album, play-all-then-stop :P | 17:58 |
| X-Fade | Ah.. old inforamation :) | 17:58 |
| timeless | so i used the admin one | 17:58 |
| X-Fade | timeless: it is now.. | 17:58 |
| Sparrow- | does anyone have experience syncing google calender with dates? | 17:58 |
| trevarthan | disq: I'm not opposed to the idea of multiple UIs. I've just got too much to do right now getting kagu ready for a release. Maybe after I've got a release I'll look into it. | 17:58 |
| timeless | i think it works better with figs | 17:58 |
| trevarthan | disq: sounds good. :) | 17:59 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Can you post a news item on garage? That way the news will end up on the maemo frontpage :) | 17:59 |
| timeless | x-fade: explain how, i probably can | 18:00 |
| trevarthan | I'm gonna go play with maemo's SIP support. Always wanted a clean wifi asterisk sip phone... :) | 18:00 |
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| disq | trevarthan: i'll be happy to start a pygtk ui if you decide that. i want a snappy ui, pygame will probably limit that | 18:00 |
| * timeless finds approve/reject news | 18:00 | |
| X-Fade | timeless: https://garage.maemo.org/news/submit.php?group_id=107 | 18:00 |
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| trevarthan | disq: I've been toying with that idea myself. pygame can be a bit sluggish sometimes, and it certainly chews up gobs of CPU. My problem with GTK on the n800 is that I hate scroll bars. They're a massive pain when you're trying to use your finger. | 18:01 |
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| disq | trevarthan: true | 18:03 |
| trevarthan | disq: feel free to do a fork of kagu to gtk if that's what you're interested in. That's what I did to ukmp. I wouldn't mind a bit, and if it ended up being superior to kagu-pygame then I would happily admit defeat. :) I've had fun playing with my scroll widget. But if something would work better then I want to use that. | 18:03 |
| timeless | x-fade: i'm not getting it | 18:04 |
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| timeless | x-fade: done? | 18:04 |
| trevarthan | disq: hell, if it works better than pygame then I'd even join you. | 18:05 |
| disq | trevarthan: i would prefer making it run on a unified framework so there's no hassle to update the core back and forth, no duplicate work, etc | 18:05 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Yeah, now let's wait for maemo.org to sync up ;) | 18:05 |
| timeless | i think it's synced | 18:05 |
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| timeless | x-fade: being able to approve one's own news is nice | 18:06 |
| timeless | not being able to figure out how to do it isn't | 18:06 |
| * timeless is not a fan of this system | 18:06 | |
| disq | trevarthan: when i find the time i'll inspect your code throughly, see what modifications need to be made to further seperate the ui from the core, and try out some stuff. maybe even send in a patch | 18:06 |
| timeless | btw: people are free to tell me to fix anything on any of this content, i'll gladly do it if i'm around | 18:06 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Hehe, yeah GForge is a bit.... different :) | 18:06 |
| trevarthan | disq: I think in order to make that a reality I would have to abstract my pygame widgets even further until they had a completely gtk-like API. Having never worked with gtk in any real capacity, I simply don't have the experience to do that. I'm not qualified. The idea sounds great, but I just can't conceive of how to do it. | 18:07 |
| timeless | x-fade: "special" | 18:07 |
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| timeless | x-fade: do you have any problems staying logged into bugs.maemo? | 18:08 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Don't even go into theming GForge :) | 18:08 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Nope.. | 18:08 |
| trevarthan | disq: if you can make it happen in a clean manner, I'll shut down my kagu code base and we'll switch to yours. It sounds like a really cool idea to me. But you'll have to make it clean in order to convince me. I'm a bit of a neat freak. | 18:08 |
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| disq | trevarthan: btw you seen this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1505 wonder if id3lib supports it | 18:09 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Although I use Firefox on my pc for that.. Haven't used microb for that yet... | 18:09 |
| timeless | x-fade: i'm using minefield on a wXPsp2 laptop | 18:09 |
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| disq | trevarthan: yeah, it would be a framework/base so it needs to be real clean anyways | 18:09 |
| trevarthan | disq: chapter support looks cool. I've been segmenting my audio books into multiple files as a work around. I didn't even know it existed. | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Haven't needed to logon for weeks now. And I'm using it every day.. | 18:11 |
| disq | trevarthan: bbc has an app to chapterize existing mp3's, though not many podcasts use it | 18:11 |
| timeless | x-fade: i got too many cookies and they were confusing bugzilla | 18:11 |
| timeless | it happens often, someday i need to figure out how to fix bugzilla to send a cookiereset to the browser :( | 18:11 |
| trevarthan | disq: I'm using mutagen for id3 reading, not id3lib. I don't *think* it has chapter support yet... http://www.sacredchao.net/quodlibet/wiki/Development/Mutagen/Tutorial | 18:13 |
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| trevarthan | I'd have to read the id3v2 spec to see how easy it would be to implement. Harassing the mutagen folks might be faster... | 18:14 |
| disq | ooh somebody opened an enhancement request for maemoscrobbler support in osso-mediaplayer. *flattered* | 18:15 |
| db48x | timeless: yea, I hate it when that happens | 18:15 |
| trevarthan | disq: maemoscrobbler is awesome. you hit a real home run with that one. I love my last.fm recommendations. | 18:15 |
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| sciboy | Back. | 18:16 |
| disq | i was meaning to do it for a long time (since n770) but the media players didn't have api to read song info | 18:17 |
| disq | even mailed folks at nokia asking for info (if there are undocumented dbus calls to get the info, etc) they couldn't help me. seeing ukmp and kagu making so much progress decided to go with it anyways | 18:18 |
| sciboy | So with that screen size how easy is it to read an A4 PDF document? | 18:18 |
| timeless | what were you looking for? | 18:18 |
| timeless | sciboy: provide a url as a testcase | 18:18 |
| disq | btw the new firmware announces "current song title" via a dbus signal (and you can read song position/length with a method call, too) but no artist/album info | 18:18 |
| timeless | ask people "how easy is it to read <thisurl>" | 18:19 |
| timeless | amorphous generic questions are not a good way to get anywhere | 18:19 |
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| timeless | e.g. i might gladly load the url you link to and answer your question | 18:19 |
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| timeless | but there's no way i'll go try to*find* an A4 document | 18:19 |
| timeless | i wouldn't recognize an A4 document if it tapped me on the shoulder | 18:19 |
| trevarthan | Yeah, I'm hoping ukmp inspires a bit of a media player renascence for the maemo platform. I was baffled when I bought my n800 and all the media players were proprietary. | 18:20 |
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| sciboy | http://downloads.mysql.com/docs/administrator-en.a4.pdf | 18:20 |
| sciboy | When you read this document do you have to zoom in and scroll from left to right? | 18:20 |
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| timeless | hrm | 18:22 |
| timeless | i can't seem to open that w/ my browser | 18:22 |
| timeless | "oops" | 18:22 |
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| disq | trevarthan: another crazy idea: since the player part and manager/ui/db is seperate, somebody could make a gmp client out of kagu :p though i'm no gmp fan | 18:22 |
| trevarthan | disq: what's gmp? | 18:23 |
| disq | trevarthan: also, are you sure about the volumeview? it looks weird to me, also probably slow | 18:23 |
| timeless | i don't have to scroll from right to left | 18:24 |
| disq | trevarthan: it's a server-client based media player model. the server has the files and the sound output, the clients connect and manage the playlist/volume | 18:24 |
| timeless | but i have to tap and hold to go to the next apge | 18:24 |
| timeless | because the built in pdf reader is *stupid* | 18:24 |
| timeless | so while i can zoom one level to see all the content fit nicely | 18:24 |
| timeless | it causes horizontal scrollbars | 18:24 |
| trevarthan | disq: yeah, I like the volume view. It's only slow because of mplayer. I really need to figure out how to do all my mplayer calls in the background. | 18:24 |
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| timeless | and there's no way to pagedown in that mode | 18:24 |
| timeless | which reminds me that i need to bug the owner of that app about that point | 18:25 |
| trevarthan | disq: are you actually running the code? Or just looking at the screenshots? | 18:25 |
| timeless | continuous scrolling is such a logical solution | 18:25 |
| sciboy | I was just curious if you could read the text without having to scroll. | 18:25 |
| sciboy | Cheers. =) | 18:25 |
| X-Fade | timeless: You you how to switch between Opera and Microb as default browser on N800? | 18:25 |
| trevarthan | disq: got a link to gmp? | 18:25 |
| disq | trevarthan: i have the volumeview code, my latest checkout was yesterday | 18:25 |
| timeless | x-fade: advanced menu | 18:25 |
| timeless | it requires you to restart the browser fwiw... | 18:26 |
| sciboy | Oh, and is there any recommended manner for viewing pages offline? | 18:26 |
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| sciboy | I mean, web pages. | 18:26 |
| timeless | sciboy: "don't" | 18:26 |
| timeless | you can try saving pages | 18:26 |
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| trevarthan | disq: update the code. I might have made some speed improvements since then. I can't remember. I've been in optimize mode for the last day or so. | 18:26 |
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| disq | trevarthan: http://www.musicpd.org/ (sorry no "g") | 18:27 |
| alterego | [sgrant] maemo, even sounds small, like nano, and nemo mixed together. | 18:27 |
| trevarthan | I think I've mostly been optimizing the text scrolling though. I think the volumeview was stable yesterday. | 18:27 |
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| disq | trevarthan: i will. each update i have to patch kaguscanner, add os.chdir("/home/user/kagu") to kagu.py, so i'm not doing it very often | 18:27 |
| X-Fade | timeless: advanced menu? Where should I find that ? | 18:28 |
| timeless | sciboy: modern web pages require internet access | 18:28 |
| timeless | x-fade: below the close menu in the app menu | 18:28 |
| trevarthan | disq: aren't you using svn? you should be able to run `svn update` and it'll merge your changes for you. | 18:28 |
| X-Fade | timeless: I don't have that :) | 18:28 |
| sciboy | timeless, Does the browser support saving pages? Or will I have to use my desktop. | 18:28 |
| timeless | x-fade: um, "oops" | 18:28 |
| timeless | sciboy: the browser supports saving pages | 18:28 |
| disq | mm. haven't thought of that will try | 18:29 |
| timeless | but i can guarantee it won't always work | 18:29 |
| timeless | i'm speaking as a developer for a major desktop browser | 18:29 |
| timeless | saving just plain can't always "do the right thing" | 18:29 |
| trevarthan | disq: svn is great. we use it at work. learn it. I promise you'll love it. | 18:29 |
| sciboy | I'm not ripping ajax apps or anything, at best, a forum page or wikipedia article. | 18:29 |
| timeless | trevarthan: svn is terrible | 18:29 |
| X-Fade | timeless: I can't find any options to switch it ;) Pretty essential for me though :) | 18:29 |
| timeless | we use it at work | 18:29 |
| timeless | learn to hate it. | 18:29 |
| timeless | i promise you can learn why it sucks | 18:29 |
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| timeless | x-fade: hrm | 18:30 |
| * timeless wonders | 18:30 | |
| disq | i've been using it just for checkout and commit, update worked nicely | 18:30 |
| trevarthan | disq: and yeah, it looks like kagu would make an excellent mpd frontend. | 18:30 |
| timeless | maybe they made us remove that option :) | 18:30 |
| timeless | x-fade: i presume you have sshd or xterm? | 18:30 |
| trevarthan | timeless: what do you prefer over svn then? | 18:30 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Sure.. | 18:30 |
| timeless | trevarthan: if i were going to do something new today, it'd be Hg | 18:30 |
| timeless | but to be honest, i prefer cvs over svn | 18:31 |
| timeless | because svn makes it a lot easier for people to make a very very big mess | 18:31 |
| timeless | it's a lot easier to screw up merges | 18:31 |
| timeless | it's a lot easier to leave branches all over the place | 18:31 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Where does your bugzilla live? Which product? | 18:31 |
| timeless | it's a lot easier to have files in places no one will ever find them | 18:31 |
| trevarthan | timeless: sounds like you aren't using SVN properly. | 18:31 |
| timeless | x-fade: n800/browser (mozilla engine) , it's in the news article you made me post | 18:32 |
| X-Fade | timeless: rtcomm has a separate product.. | 18:32 |
| zuh | timeless: a lot easier to delete directories ;) | 18:32 |
| timeless | trevarthan: me? | 18:32 |
| timeless | you mean garage.maemo.org, right? | 18:32 |
| timeless | i have 8gb of garbage from it | 18:32 |
| disq | rtcomm also brings avatar support to contacts (gtalk/jabber too) but the default avatar is so fugly | 18:33 |
| timeless | timeless@swift:/export/home/svn/world-all/garage% df -h . | 18:33 |
| timeless | Filesystem size used avail capacity Mounted on | 18:33 |
| timeless | root_pool/home/svn/world-all/garage | 18:33 |
| timeless | 362G 8.2G 128G 7% /export/home/svn/world-all/garage | 18:33 |
| timeless | because there's *no* way to figure out what a "trunk" is | 18:33 |
| disq | fortunately there's a switch to list view option somewhere in the menu | 18:33 |
| joshin | Moving my N770's / to a MMCmobile drive. Is there a consensus on which is better to use on a flash device, ext2 or ext3? | 18:33 |
| timeless | because people *don't* consistently use a single directory structure | 18:33 |
| zuh | timeless: I doubt it's really meant to check out the whole of garage though... :) | 18:33 |
| trevarthan | timeless: yeah, you. It sounds like you either aren't using it properly, or you've out grown it and you're refusing to upgrade. I've never worked on a project too large for SVN, but my projects usually only have less than 10 developers. | 18:34 |
| timeless | zuh: try building a source code cross reference without the source | 18:34 |
| timeless | trevarthan: my projects have >100 developers | 18:34 |
| timeless | i work on mozilla, i use opensolaris, i work on maemo | 18:34 |
| timeless | i work in garage | 18:34 |
| timeless | i've worked on netbeans | 18:34 |
| timeless | i've played w/ open office | 18:34 |
| trevarthan | timeless: yeah, you probably need something a bit, err, bigger than svn. | 18:34 |
| disq | joshin: not really. some use ext2, some use ext3. i use ext2. | 18:34 |
| trevarthan | timeless: SVN is great for small projects though. | 18:35 |
| timeless | trevarthan: anyway, svn makes it easy for people to develop bad habbits | 18:35 |
| disq | joshin: in fact recently there's another discussion about this in maemo-developers | 18:35 |
| timeless | and it's very hard to fix | 18:35 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Bug 1669 it is ;) | 18:35 |
| timeless | sure someone could write a commit hook | 18:35 |
| timeless | x-fade: sorry | 18:35 |
| timeless | this other guy distracted me | 18:36 |
| timeless | i was going to explain how to do it | 18:36 |
| joshin | disq: Yeah, I've been using ext2 on the thumbdrive I have on my nslu2. I guess I'll just stick with that. | 18:36 |
| X-Fade | timeless: No problem, still think it is a bug ;) A bit evil to hijhack default browser as a beta project ;) | 18:36 |
| timeless | open /home/user/.browser | 18:36 |
| timeless | you should see hidden=false | 18:36 |
| sciboy | Will the 770 take a 2GB RS-MMC? | 18:37 |
| timeless | make it say hidden=true | 18:37 |
| timeless | x-fade: we tested it before the launch | 18:37 |
| sciboy | Everywhere says 1gb. =/ | 18:37 |
| timeless | i specifically asked my neighbor because we weren't sure | 18:37 |
| timeless | he said it worked | 18:37 |
| timeless | course, his device probably wasn't clean | 18:37 |
| * timeless ponders | 18:37 | |
| timeless | the browser will let you save a file anywhere right? | 18:38 |
| disq | trevarthan: looks like volumeview is noticably faster now | 18:39 |
| timeless | x-fade: please test? | 18:39 |
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| X-Fade | timeless: The hidden=true? | 18:39 |
| trevarthan | disq: ok cool. it's still a bit slow, but that's all mplayer's fault. | 18:39 |
| timeless | yes | 18:39 |
| X-Fade | timeless: or saving anywhere? | 18:39 |
| trevarthan | disq: did svn update work well for you? | 18:40 |
| timeless | hidden=true for now | 18:40 |
| timeless | i'll figure out saving anywhere in a moment | 18:40 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Hehe, it browser changes that setting back to hidden=false | 18:40 |
| disq | trevarthan: it did, merged kagu.py etc | 18:41 |
| disq | trevarthan: did you try maemoscrobbler on the road? without a net connection I mean | 18:41 |
| disq | trevarthan: not sure if it would accept more than a few songs, I didn't try it yet | 18:42 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Ah and your project bugzilla configuration is hosed.. | 18:42 |
| trevarthan | disq: yeah man. worked great. no hitches whatsoever. | 18:42 |
| timeless | ? | 18:42 |
| X-Fade | timeless: When filing the bug I saw your email and the assigned person.. | 18:43 |
| X-Fade | now they are gone.. | 18:43 |
| timeless | i'm not the assignee | 18:43 |
| timeless | i watch the qa contact | 18:43 |
| trevarthan | disq: I didn't audit it afterward. I'll do that next time. Make sure it's adding absolutely everything I play in the car. | 18:43 |
| timeless | that's intentional | 18:43 |
| X-Fade | unassigned <nobody@maemo.org> | 18:43 |
| disq | trevarthan: currently i'm doing it 6 songs at a time, audioscrobbler api limit is 10, but it also says "not for batch update" or something along the lines of that in the api doc | 18:43 |
| timeless | there's no trace of a connection between it and me | 18:43 |
| timeless | i designed it | 18:43 |
| timeless | i designed it for bugzilla.mozilla.org, i designed it for bugs.maemo.org | 18:43 |
| timeless | believe me, i know exactly what i'm doing | 18:43 |
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| X-Fade | timeless: But I saw your gmail address when filing :) | 18:44 |
| timeless | sure | 18:44 |
| trevarthan | timeless: that's what all the people who don't have a clue say. | 18:44 |
| timeless | so does *everyone* who files a bug in bugzilla.mozilla.org | 18:44 |
| timeless | x-fade: but if i stop caring about browser bugs | 18:44 |
| timeless | i don't have to remove myself as a cc from all browser bugs | 18:44 |
| timeless | nor do i have to reassign them to someone else | 18:44 |
| timeless | nor do i have to change the qa contact for all those bugs | 18:45 |
| timeless | i'm an interchangable cog | 18:45 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Yeah, that is nice. Although not transparant for users.. | 18:45 |
| timeless | now why can't i get opera to log me into bugs.maemo.org/ :) | 18:45 |
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| X-Fade | timeless: But back to the mozilla->opera problem.. it doesn't work :) | 18:45 |
| timeless | x-fade: ok | 18:46 |
| timeless | there's a line in that file that specifies the engine | 18:46 |
| timeless | you can change it to engine=opera | 18:46 |
| timeless | you can also do /usr/bin/browser --engine=opera | 18:46 |
| trevarthan | disq: what do you think about the scrolling text? | 18:46 |
| disq | trevarthan: maybe nokia should leave the current sucky media player as is, leave it to developers and focus on the platform. it's good and all but we all know how much time they're going to lose if they implement all that changes we (mostly I) suggested in the bugzilla. metacrawler still sucks after two updates, i have it disabled. dives into my sardine partition and never comes back | 18:46 |
| timeless | disq: last i checked the latest internal version of metacrawler doesn't reread files starting from each byte offset :) | 18:47 |
| timeless | (shipping versions did)_ | 18:47 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Doesn't work either. Something keeps overwriting that file with it's default settings.. | 18:47 |
| disq | trevarthan: it might need padding (1 or 2px) at both sides. maybe give it a little sinus wave? leave the track number unscrolling? | 18:47 |
| timeless | x-fade: is the browser running? | 18:47 |
| trevarthan | disq: yeah, I don't understand why they don't focus on the OS API and just package OSS apps like pidgin as the default chat client. | 18:48 |
| disq | by sinus i mean sine. sorry. | 18:48 |
| * timeless curses | 18:48 | |
| X-Fade | timeless: Ah, it saves on close :) | 18:48 |
| trevarthan | disq: ok, padding. I'll do that. Track number. I'll do that too. What do you mean by sine wave? | 18:48 |
| disq | trevarthan: make it scroll slow to fast to slow, or fast to slow to fast. | 18:49 |
| X-Fade | timeless: So I changed the file, closed the browser :) | 18:49 |
| timeless | x-fade: :) | 18:49 |
| timeless | sorry, i suppose i should have mentioned that | 18:49 |
| trevarthan | disq: what, like every second or two? | 18:49 |
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| X-Fade | timeless: Ok, with hidden=true I can now change it.. | 18:50 |
| trevarthan | disq: what's the purpose of that? allow slow people to read, but allow impatient people to read fast too? | 18:50 |
| disq | trevarthan: erm. no, when it's selected like now. instead of scrolling at a constant speed, start slow, get faster in the middle, etc. it might not be noticable on short song titles though | 18:50 |
| disq | eye candy | 18:50 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Now I can see that the microb engine has causes a few rendering problems that opera doesn't have.. | 18:50 |
| trevarthan | disq: ah. that's interesting. do you have an example player for win32 or linux that does that already? I'd like to see what it looks like. | 18:51 |
| disq | another improvement in the songlist would be to skip the track number if there's only one track in the list. it could look better, not sure. | 18:51 |
| timeless | brb | 18:52 |
| trevarthan | disq: I might be able to do that too. I mostly have full albums here. not a big one song guy. | 18:52 |
| disq | trevarthan: not sure if any players implement it but i can find/write a js that does it | 18:52 |
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| trevarthan | disq: I think I can handle it. I've already got the speed clock limited so I'll just increase the step rate closer to the middle of the scroll. | 18:53 |
| trevarthan | you know what? feel free to play with it though. :) if you want to code it then I'm fine with that. :) I'm trying to recruit help here. | 18:54 |
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| disq | i need to start finishing off some paid work (deadline imminent) but can't get myself to do it. instead i'm checking out the mailing lists, chatting on irc etc. :) i would feel bad if i got into it more. so, i will, but can't today :) | 18:56 |
| trevarthan | disq: me too. Alright, I've added those to the TTD: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/changeset/170 I'm gonna get some real work done now. :) | 18:58 |
| timeless | x-fade: sorry, is there a "set engine" menu below "close"? | 18:58 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Yeah.. | 18:58 |
| timeless | x-fade: um... | 18:58 |
| X-Fade | timeless: I have switched back and forth a few times now. Works great. | 18:58 |
| timeless | soryr, that's how you switch :) | 18:58 |
| timeless | was that not there when you started this game? | 18:58 |
| X-Fade | Nope | 18:58 |
| sciboy | Are packages still being maintained for the 770? | 18:59 |
| trevarthan | anyone know where I can find libplayback-1.0? I'm trying to install rtcomm on my n800.... it isn't part of the new firmware, is it? | 19:00 |
| disq | trevarthan: okay. btw, if you search at google you'll find wavy text (text baseline going up and down like a sine wave) it's not that one i'm talking about. the idea is to get the text scrolling speed (velocity, if you will) change depending on the closeness to the beginning/end. | 19:01 |
| timeless | sciboy; no :) | 19:01 |
| X-Fade | Hmm found another microb bug.. Zooming in doesn't scale background images.. | 19:02 |
| trevarthan | disq: yeah, I get it. take a look at widgets.Text.offset. That's the variable that will change depending on proximity to the edge of the text (or middle, depending on implementation). | 19:02 |
| timeless | trevarthan: it is the new firmware | 19:02 |
| disq | trevarthan: rtcomm installed fine for me. if you have gpe or openedhand pim repositories it would be wise to disable them though (the known bug about evolution* could be triggered by that) | 19:02 |
| trevarthan | it's a constant 10 right now. we should modulate it. | 19:02 |
| timeless | it's ok, you need the new firmware for microb too :) | 19:03 |
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| trevarthan | timeless: disq: aw man. I'm scared to try the new firmware. I don't want to brick my 4gb SDHC card! https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1204 | 19:03 |
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| * timeless goes to read | 19:05 | |
| disq | trevarthan: i would try it, it's good. but of course back up the sdhc card just in case. (luckily the only sdhc card i own is in my camera) | 19:05 |
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| timeless | ok, fwiw, don't expect anything on that before mid august | 19:05 |
| timeless | nokians have a tendency to vacation in july | 19:06 |
| timeless | silly finnish custom | 19:06 |
| trevarthan | man.... risk bricking my sdhc card to get SIP support, or play it safe, foresaking SIP support, and safely continue development on kagu with my 4gb sdhc card? | 19:07 |
| knipknap | how feasible is it to make an application that uses pigment and avahi-python on maemo/nokia 770? are these libraries available on maemo? is avahi already provided? | 19:07 |
| trevarthan | timeless: maybe I should just put my 4gb card in the internal slot? I haven't seen any complaints about the internal slot bricking anything.... | 19:07 |
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| disq | trevarthan: i don't think you can physically brick memory cards with the n800 | 19:08 |
| trevarthan | disq: they haven't found a way to repair them. | 19:08 |
| sciboy | Asked the question so I don't have to -> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7695 | 19:08 |
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| timeless | trevarthan: having lost a 2gb card i worked hard to get to /something/ | 19:09 |
| timeless | i'd personally not use any big cards that i bought w/ my own money :) | 19:09 |
| * timeless sighs | 19:10 | |
| timeless | that bug report is useless | 19:10 |
| timeless | it's a bunch of rambling complaints | 19:10 |
| timeless | including a "Fixed" marker | 19:10 |
| timeless | who chose to reopen it and why? | 19:10 |
| disq | i had similar (mount-ro-wtf) problems with my 2gb rsmmc in the external slot, with the prev firmware btw | 19:10 |
| trevarthan | that dude with the sdhc patches needs to release another 3rd party kernel for the latest firmware so I don't have to worry about it. | 19:10 |
| disq | it went away after a format (lost some maps) | 19:11 |
| * timeless reads | 19:11 | |
| disq | trevarthan: i agree | 19:11 |
| timeless | slightly better would be a kernel w/ mmc debug logging enabled | 19:11 |
| trevarthan | timeless: are you saying that 1204 is useless? | 19:12 |
| timeless | yes | 19:12 |
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| timeless | trevarthan: bugs need to be about a single specific problem | 19:12 |
| timeless | if someone fixes something, then unless the fix causes regressions, a new bug should be filed for new instances of similar problems | 19:13 |
| disq | trevarthan: another player idea would be a portrait view. doable with pygame, not doable with gtk unless the user has a patched x server | 19:13 |
| timeless | you can't know if the problem you're experiencing stems from the same problem | 19:13 |
| timeless | it is very easy for there to be 2 bugs that trigger corruption | 19:13 |
| pupnik | well trev, i haven't seen fps numbers for snes9x on the gp2x. just reports that 'it's slow' and that drpocketsnes and squidgesnes are 'full speed' or 'near full speed'. The three main performance elements are 1) mmu hack which we can't apply to the nokias 2) PPU, Sound optimisations 3) FB rendering (which we could do on nokia) | 19:13 |
| timeless | if there are 10 different ways to trigger each of 2 bugs that trigger corruption | 19:13 |
| timeless | then some of the ways are no longer relevant once the first bug is fixed | 19:14 |
| trevarthan | timeless: disq: here's the mailing list thread if you're interested: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.devel/10712/focus=10720 | 19:14 |
| disq | anyway, need to dyson (my new word for vacuum cleaning) my carpet, brb. | 19:14 |
| timeless | but sifting through bugs with general "it's dead" messages | 19:14 |
| timeless | won't get anyone anywhere | 19:14 |
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| trevarthan | disq: yeah, I think I mention portrait view in the TTD. I talk about rotating things, I think. | 19:14 |
| pupnik | Where does the crew of the Enterprise go to work-out? | 19:14 |
| pupnik | "The It's Dead Gym" | 19:14 |
| disq | trevarthan: i'm read almost all of the posts in maemo-devel, sardine-devel and maemo-users (talk about free time) | 19:15 |
| trevarthan | disq: I'm *definitely* going to do a portrait view. But I'm going to do it after a release. | 19:15 |
| disq | trevarthan: yeah. btw, you should have a list for the todo items before the first release and just focus on them | 19:16 |
| trevarthan | pupnik: ah. so we're only getting PPU optimizations on Nokia, unless we decide to go the FB route. Are you using SDL or FB? | 19:16 |
| pupnik | SDL, but i've looked at siarhei's (sp?) mplayer fb hack and that's doable | 19:17 |
| disq | trevarthan: because the player is mostly good and usable right now. (add exit confirmation to esc key?) | 19:17 |
| * timeless goes to read the other bug | 19:17 | |
| trevarthan | disq: I do. It's the part of TTD before "- Place project on Maemo Garage." | 19:17 |
| disq | i think that's too much stuff | 19:18 |
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| timeless | ok | 19:18 |
| trevarthan | disq: I definitely want to add gst support before I make a release. I don't think mplayer should be a requirement. | 19:18 |
| disq | possible to make a slightly half assed but equal functioning release | 19:19 |
| timeless | so the original problem... | 19:19 |
| timeless | a certain Hama 4GB SD card had a CRC problem with a fast MMC clock frequency | 19:19 |
| timeless | lowering the frequency to 24MHz enabled a copy from the card to work | 19:20 |
| trevarthan | disq: I could add gst support and release now... I just don't have any motivation to. What would that buy me besides release-day headaches? | 19:20 |
| timeless | a Transcend MiniSD 4GB SDHC otoh.. which also had CRC errors | 19:20 |
| disq | mmm.. i shall make a lolcat-of-the-day-background-image-changer | 19:21 |
| timeless | well, lowering the clock speed caused the CRC errors to disappear | 19:21 |
| timeless | but the card then responded with command timeouts to block reads | 19:21 |
| timeless | anyway, that's all the information available internally | 19:21 |
| disq | trevarthan: people are out there, starving for a good music player! :P though you're partly right, there are so much media players out right now. to stand out you need to offer a near complete release | 19:22 |
| timeless | the 2gb micro sd card i had also was visible as timeouts iirc | 19:22 |
| timeless | the guy i gave it to couldn't figure out what to do with it | 19:22 |
| disq | or so many. rather than so much. | 19:22 |
| timeless | anyway... | 19:22 |
| timeless | if you or anyone else wants to hunt down the problem, you'll almost certainly need kernel mmc debugging enabled | 19:22 |
| trevarthan | disq: that's what I was thinking. those things on the list now are what I think I need in order for kagu to be really attractive to people and stand out. I don't think many people use A2DP. other than that, maemoscrobbler support is the only thing that kagu currently offers that ukmp doesn't offer. | 19:23 |
| timeless | it /might/ be possible to ship sd cards to nokia, however i suspect, at least from prior experience that there are enough already | 19:23 |
| timeless | nokia does actually have at least one such card | 19:23 |
| timeless | (the debugging output wasn't enough for the engineer to figure out a fix from a cursory inspection) | 19:24 |
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| trevarthan | disq: oh, I'd need a gui for ukmp-scanner and I'd need to add makefiles for the deb before a release too, so the number of things in front of those critical items isn't really that long. | 19:24 |
| disq | trevarthan: btw have you considered downloading album covers from other sites? sniff itunes traffic? allmusic.com? i'll work on that. | 19:24 |
| trevarthan | disq: nope. but go ahead. sounds good. | 19:24 |
| Jaffa | trevarthan/disq: does it currently use "cover.jpg" et al? Or just ID3 album art? | 19:25 |
| trevarthan | Jaffa: yeah. it'll use cover.jpg and folder.jpg. | 19:25 |
| trevarthan | I think ukmp only uses cover.jpg right now. | 19:26 |
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| Hyperion|n800 | when i try to download a file to mmc2 i get a 'not alllwed' error is there a way to fix this | 19:36 |
| pupnik | is the usb cable plugged-in? | 19:36 |
| Hyperion|n800 | no | 19:37 |
| Hyperion|n800 | i can access files | 19:37 |
| Hyperion|n800 | but not write them | 19:37 |
| sciboy | "More frequenty seen in the hands of high profile stock brokers and celebrities the Nokia 770 is avaialble up for grab here @ ebay !!!" | 19:38 |
| timeless | oh, x-fade: fwiw, the email address you see isn't actually the real address :) | 19:38 |
| trevarthan | Hyperion|n800: Have you been bitten by this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1204 | 19:39 |
| sciboy | Anyone know the actual dimensions of the screen? | 19:39 |
| Hyperion|n800 | trevarthan, seems so :x | 19:40 |
| disq | sciboy: high profile stock brokers? celebrities? well. i wouldn't buy from that seller :P | 19:40 |
| disq | he's trying to sell the 770 as if it was a phone. also lying about it. | 19:41 |
| trevarthan | Hyperion|n800: the funny thing is that we were just discussing that bug. timeless had a 4 page rant about it. The sad thing is that your mmc card might be bricked. Hopefully not. But maybe. | 19:41 |
| sciboy | disq, If I had much freedom to shop around elsewhere, I would. | 19:41 |
| timeless | odds are it's a brick | 19:41 |
| timeless | it's not funny | 19:41 |
| timeless | actually, the gmane list is kinda conufsed | 19:42 |
| timeless | 54313 wasn't really about "file corruption" | 19:42 |
| timeless | it was about CRCs preventing file copies | 19:43 |
| * timeless shrugs | 19:43 | |
| timeless | i can't stick that into the bug now because it's morphed | 19:43 |
| timeless | (and this is why morphing bugs is bad) | 19:43 |
| Hyperion|n800 | trevarthan, heh, ok | 19:43 |
| timeless | btw, not that you'd like it, but i suspect that if you read the nokia handbook | 19:44 |
| trevarthan | Nokia needs to recall that firmware. | 19:44 |
| timeless | it probably says something like "only use official nokia supported cards" | 19:44 |
| timeless | and then has a tiny list of nokia vendor cards | 19:45 |
| timeless | it'd be good if someone could get one of those corrupted :) | 19:45 |
| timeless | (much better leverage) | 19:45 |
| Hyperion|n800 | also, is there any way to install the packages needed for skype all at once and not individualy? | 19:45 |
| trevarthan | I bet someone could. I suspect the problem happens regardless of vendor. | 19:45 |
| timeless | trevarthan: i believe so too, just noting that it really can't be me | 19:46 |
| timeless | and really, at this point, that's about the only way to speed things up. | 19:46 |
| timeless | practically speaking, nothing can happen before mid august | 19:46 |
| trevarthan | I wonder if calling Nokia tech support and bitching would help? | 19:46 |
| timeless | the biggest change from my perspective in the firmware was a fix for dead touchscreens | 19:46 |
| timeless | trevarthan: they log them like bean counters | 19:47 |
| timeless | if enough people overfill a bean bucket, it's noticed | 19:47 |
| trevarthan | yeah, that's what I figured. Hyperion|n800: please call Nokia and complain loudly because their firmware bricked your card. | 19:47 |
| timeless | be sure to include some details | 19:48 |
| trevarthan | no f'ing way I'm upgrading. shame too. I really want to play with SIP and the touch screen fixes too. | 19:48 |
| timeless | like it doesn't work in my nokia <specify phone> anymore | 19:48 |
| Hyperion|n800 | heh ok | 19:48 |
| timeless | and the specific card | 19:48 |
| timeless | oh | 19:48 |
| timeless | oops, oh=wrong window | 19:49 |
| db48x | heh | 19:49 |
| * timeless chuckles | 19:49 | |
| timeless | you're here to see that.. | 19:50 |
| db48x | yup | 19:50 |
| timeless | you're stalking me! | 19:50 |
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| db48x | lol | 19:50 |
| db48x | you told me to come here! | 19:50 |
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| timeless | oh sure, likely story! | 19:50 |
| db48x | don't make me dig up a log | 19:50 |
| timeless | yeah yeah, blame me for you following my advice | 19:51 |
| db48x | so anyway, here's a generic debian question | 19:51 |
| timeless | oh, someone asked about installing all the pieces of skype | 19:51 |
| db48x | is there a standard way to make dpkg-buildpackage use a different directory to create the package in? | 19:52 |
| timeless | you can always make a trivial ;.install or .deb package with requirements to make it works | 19:52 |
| Hyperion|n800 | ah ok | 19:53 |
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| timeless | you probably want -V {something} | 19:53 |
| Hyperion|n800 | timeless, it tells me that some of the packages are missing etc. do you now what repositories they might be in? | 19:54 |
| timeless | oh | 19:54 |
| timeless | you almost certainly need the latest version of the system :) | 19:55 |
| timeless | give me the package names and i'll let you know | 19:55 |
| timeless | hyperion: ie the ones that will brick things | 19:55 |
| Hyperion|n800 | heh | 19:56 |
| disq | trevarthan: inspected, decided the sine wave scroll is not the thing for the song title. because it's best when the text is going back and forth (think knight rider effect) it's kinda pointless to use it with the song title wrapping around. it could be used in other places, like when the songlister scrolls (to get it to stop faster maybe, useful for fast scrolls) | 19:56 |
| pupnik | hehe @ knight rider | 19:56 |
| Hyperion|n800 | timeless, I´ll deal with it later, thanks | 19:57 |
| disq | trevarthan: the code is something like this: "math.sin((math.pi*current_step/2)/max_step)" this gives you a nonlinear number between 0.0 and 0.999 depending on current_step's location in max_step. | 19:57 |
| db48x | no, you mean it computes a nonlinear function, not that the resulting number itself is nonlinear | 19:58 |
| disq | exactly | 19:59 |
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| Hyperion|n800 | timeless, do you know which one the osso-bookmarks package is in? | 20:03 |
| timeless | repository? | 20:03 |
| Hyperion|n800 | yua | 20:04 |
| timeless | is browser saying it wants it? | 20:04 |
| timeless | the browser notes are very clear that you need the latest version of the os release | 20:05 |
| timeless | i know because i rewrote that line of the page | 20:05 |
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| Hyperion|n800 | ah :) | 20:06 |
| Hyperion|n800 | ok | 20:06 |
| timeless | sorry | 20:06 |
| timeless | you're free to try to convince someone to steal it for you | 20:06 |
| Hyperion|n800 | well as my card already seems to be bricked .... | 20:06 |
| Hyperion|n800 | :D | 20:06 |
| timeless | which version of the os are you using? | 20:06 |
| Hyperion|n800 | when was the latest OS version released? | 20:06 |
| Hyperion|n800 | hrm | 20:06 |
| timeless | it's listed in control panel/about or something | 20:06 |
| Hyperion|n800 | 3.2007.10-7 | 20:07 |
| timeless | well, if we go to the page... | 20:07 |
| * timeless wonders if someone is hammering garage | 20:07 | |
| timeless | Mozilla based browser for maemo requires the latest version of Internet Tablet OS 2007 for Nokia N800 (4.2007.26-8). | 20:08 |
| timeless | was the page unclear in any way shape or form? | 20:08 |
| timeless | do i need to write the page in Finnish? | 20:08 |
| Hyperion|n800 | lol! | 20:08 |
| Hyperion|n800 | no Im just outa the loop :) | 20:08 |
| timeless | it might be hard for me to get that done today | 20:08 |
| Hyperion|n800 | dont worry about it ;) | 20:08 |
| timeless | but i could probably find someone tomorrow :) | 20:08 |
| db48x | that page is entirely non-transparent, timeless | 20:08 |
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| Hyperion|n800 | english is native here | 20:09 |
| timeless | hyperion: i got stuck w/ the job of cleaning up the text because i'm a native speaker | 20:09 |
| Hyperion|n800 | although | 20:09 |
| Hyperion|n800 | what you could do | 20:09 |
| Hyperion|n800 | is put that as number 1 | 20:09 |
| timeless | i don't think we have a 6. picture :( | 20:09 |
| Hyperion|n800 | so people see it | 20:09 |
| Hyperion|n800 | :( | 20:09 |
| Hyperion|n800 | ah well, if they dont | 20:10 |
| teer2 | Hello guys - I have a quick question. Is there a way to remove the address bar on the webbrowser fullscreen? I am sure this is a common question. By the way, I love my SSH server running. It is wonderful to login to the functional Linux OS | 20:10 |
| timeless | would a quote chracter in front of that work? | 20:10 |
| Hyperion|n800 | theyĺl just come here and badger you | 20:10 |
| Hyperion|n800 | :D | 20:10 |
| Hyperion|n800 | ya it might | 20:10 |
| timeless | hrm, we do have a 6 picture | 20:10 |
| timeless | which would you prefer? | 20:10 |
| timeless | 1..6 http://browser.garage.maemo.org/pics/6.png | 20:10 |
| timeless | or http://browser.garage.maemo.org/pics/quotes.png | 20:10 |
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| timeless | seriously, i'll gladly change it, but you have to suggest which will work best :) | 20:11 |
| Hyperion|n800 | go for the 6 | 20:12 |
| timeless | ok | 20:12 |
| teer2 | Hyperion|n800: I think I just saw a Shrike. | 20:12 |
| Hyperion|n800 | teer2 herm? | 20:12 |
| kaatis_ | that site looks like a powerpoint slideshow | 20:12 |
| teer2 | Hyperion|n800: Referring to the Hyperion books. :) | 20:13 |
| Hyperion|n800 | ah ok, thanks | 20:13 |
| * Hyperion|n800 still needs to read them | 20:13 | |
| db48x | kaatis_: how does that make you feel? | 20:13 |
| teer2 | I am looking for the best way to do ebook reading on the N800 | 20:13 |
| * timeless frowns | 20:14 | |
| Hyperion|n800 | teer2, I like evince personally if they are in pdf format | 20:14 |
| teer2 | The address bar in the webbrowser was no fun. | 20:14 |
| timeless | ok, so, just a straight list w/o any text explaining what this is? | 20:14 |
| kaatis_ | db48x, i'd much rather read some simple page x) | 20:14 |
| teer2 | I generally get ebooks in plain text or html because it is easier to manipulate | 20:14 |
| timeless | or a paragraph and then 1 as "Update to the latest version of Internet Tablet OS 2007 for Nokia N800 (...) | 20:14 |
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| * timeless leans toward the latter | 20:14 | |
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| Hyperion|n800 | ya | 20:15 |
| Hyperion|n800 | use a paragraph | 20:15 |
| Hyperion|n800 | and then the 1. update to lates os (3.7007.26-4) | 20:15 |
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| timeless | Mozilla based browser for maemo requires the latest version of Internet Tablet OS 2007 for Nokia N800. | 20:17 |
| timeless | * Update to Internet Tablet OS 2007 (4.2007.26-8). | 20:17 |
| timeless | ok? | 20:17 |
| teer2 | Is the Mozilla based brower better? | 20:17 |
| teer2 | I was going to try it to see if it did true fullscreen, but didn't want to fight with other bugs | 20:18 |
| Hyperion|n800 | yep | 20:18 |
| timeless | what's true fullscreen? | 20:18 |
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| Hyperion|n800 | wow, development has really kicked up a notch :) | 20:18 |
| teer2 | timeless: The default webbrowser leaves the address bar on the screen in fullscreen mode. | 20:18 |
| Hyperion|n800 | I finally have nano :D | 20:19 |
| timeless | um | 20:19 |
| timeless | you can turn that off | 20:19 |
| timeless | app menu(that's a hardware button) | 20:19 |
| teer2 | I'd really like to know how. | 20:19 |
| timeless | view> | 20:19 |
| timeless | show toolbar> | 20:19 |
| timeless | [x] full screen | 20:19 |
| teer2 | oooooh... thank you! | 20:19 |
| timeless | i bet it's even in help | 20:19 |
| teer2 | I was looking under preferences | 20:19 |
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| timeless | hrm | 20:20 |
| timeless | maybe it isn't | 20:20 |
| Hyperion|n800 | is it strange that I have nothing in my /media/mmc2 folder? | 20:20 |
| timeless | and if it isn't, ill gladly yell at the help writers :) | 20:20 |
| teer2 | Does the google pages (google documents, google calander, google reader) work any better in the mozilla browser? | 20:21 |
| timeless | teer2: yes | 20:21 |
| timeless | they're the primary test pages | 20:21 |
| teer2 | And what is the default browser? I'd love to recommend work on the google pages to them. | 20:21 |
| timeless | ? | 20:21 |
| timeless | installing microb changes the default browser | 20:21 |
| timeless | there's supposed to be an appmenu>set engine> item | 20:22 |
| timeless | but someone claimed it was missing | 20:22 |
| Hyperion|n800 | <3 MASSIVELY for google docs | 20:22 |
| Hyperion|n800 | oh, here is a question | 20:22 |
| teer2 | timeless: Reallly - that's great to hear. I do a lot of work with the Google tools. | 20:22 |
| timeless | teer2: i pretty much only work w/ google tools :) | 20:22 |
| timeless | i'm not really familiar w/ the web | 20:23 |
| Hyperion|n800 | if I mounted my sd card over usb in linux, could permissions have gotten messed | 20:23 |
| timeless | i wouldn't miss only visiting *.google.com :) | 20:23 |
| Hyperion|n800 | so that I can no longer write to it? | 20:23 |
| timeless | hyperion: sd cards tend to be fat | 20:23 |
| timeless | which means no permissions | 20:23 |
| Hyperion|n800 | :x | 20:23 |
| Hyperion|n800 | bugger | 20:23 |
| timeless | in general at least from what i've seen, when an sd card goes bad, you're up a creek w/o a paddle | 20:23 |
| timeless | a friend had a camera which ate an sd card for him | 20:23 |
| timeless | no nokia devices involved | 20:24 |
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| timeless | just a mac, a usb cable, and a camera not properly mode dialed | 20:24 |
| Hyperion|n800 | heh | 20:24 |
| timeless | hyperion: reload browser.garage | 20:25 |
| disq | timeless: too bad we can't use both browsers. like we do with minimo | 20:25 |
| timeless | just in case you guys think that it requires | 20:25 |
| timeless | a nokia device to eat an mmc/sd card :) | 20:25 |
| timeless | disq: so... | 20:25 |
| timeless | i've used QNX devices (Audrey) | 20:25 |
| timeless | which had a similar system | 20:25 |
| timeless | you can in fact run two browsers if you like | 20:26 |
| timeless | there's a TestGtkEmbed which you should be able to find in a dev package | 20:26 |
| timeless | i believe it's in the repository | 20:26 |
| timeless | the reason embedders (Nokia, QSSL) | 20:26 |
| timeless | don't do it is because their devices don't have enough ram (32mb audrey, who knows for the tablet) | 20:26 |
| timeless | so encouraging users to run two ram hungry applications is stupid | 20:27 |
| timeless | and it's also fairly confusing to have two nearly identical uis open | 20:27 |
| timeless | not good for a "platform" | 20:27 |
| timeless | besides, you can't do a proper side by side comparison that way | 20:27 |
| Hyperion|n800 | heh | 20:27 |
| dragorn | I've got an audrey | 20:27 |
| dragorn | somewhere | 20:27 |
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| timeless | help nokia employees out, buy a second device and do it right :) | 20:27 |
| timeless | my audrey is sitting next to my cinema display for my mac | 20:28 |
| Hyperion|n800 | looks good :) | 20:28 |
| procto | 3com audrey? | 20:28 |
| timeless | unfortunately it has a us voltage adapter and i'm not in the us | 20:28 |
| timeless | procto: correct | 20:28 |
| procto | man, I remember those things :> | 20:28 |
| disq | timeless: i mean, it's cool but what happens if the package gets broken somewhere along the development period? it's not even beta (which is a reserved word :p ). would uninstalling it revert to opera? | 20:28 |
| Hyperion|n800 | im headed home | 20:28 |
| timeless | disq: yes | 20:28 |
| Hyperion|n800 | bbl | 20:28 |
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| disq | then np :) | 20:29 |
| timeless | disq: note that you're supposed to be able to switch browser engines from the menu | 20:29 |
| disq | even better | 20:29 |
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| timeless | my devices are mostly too customized for me to be sure | 20:29 |
| * timeless picks up personal device that doesn't have microb | 20:29 | |
| dragorn | the amount of crap in my office means mine is somewhere in the basement | 20:30 |
| procto | timeless: what's microb? | 20:30 |
| timeless | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/3.2/install/microb-browser.install | 20:31 |
| disq | procto: it's the gecko/mozilla thingy | 20:31 |
| disq | codename for it. | 20:31 |
| procto | ah | 20:31 |
| procto | k | 20:31 |
| timeless | codename that the project leader worked very hard to have as a public name | 20:31 |
| procto | my n800 arrives tomorrow | 20:31 |
| procto | my stowaway bt keyboard should be arriving today | 20:31 |
| timeless | only to have management squish it at the last weekend | 20:31 |
| disq | so, i guess nokia is doing some useful stuff after all. last few weeks was very active | 20:32 |
| timeless | disq: actually... | 20:32 |
| timeless | nokia's mostly on vacation :) | 20:32 |
| teer2 | procto: N800 is awesome. | 20:32 |
| procto | teer2: that's why I bought it :> | 20:32 |
| timeless | i think most of the releases are timed based on guadec | 20:33 |
| * timeless sighs | 20:33 | |
| * timeless needs to kick someone | 20:33 | |
| teer2 | My only other issue (other than the address bar in fullscreen webbrowser that I just got fixed) is the WiFi losing connection. | 20:33 |
| timeless | brb | 20:33 |
| timeless | teer2: care to be slightly more specific? | 20:33 |
| timeless | i can't fix vague bugs | 20:33 |
| teer2 | Anyone else see this? Oh thanks. | 20:33 |
| disq | firmware (flash9, which was unexpected) then the rtcomm alpha (early release, great work, appreciated) then the chinook pre-sdk (always welcome) and now microb | 20:33 |
| timeless | disq: flash9 had been long planned | 20:34 |
| timeless | originally it was going to arrive w/ microb | 20:34 |
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| disq | also sardine is cooking nicely | 20:34 |
| timeless | we slipped a bit :( | 20:34 |
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| timeless | the things that were released in final were basically done early in the year (into spring) and took the last bits for testing and legal checks | 20:35 |
| disq | timeless: great splash screen/page btw | 20:35 |
| teer2 | timeless: I have a very recent Linksys WAP using encryption (hold on, I'll give you specifics), and the N800 connected to the network easily enough. I also have it connected to my phone's bluetooth connection. Occasionally, when I bring it online from standby, I have to "Change connection..." and choose the WiFi again | 20:35 |
| timeless | teer2: does the icon disappear in themenu that has change connection? | 20:36 |
| disq | it comes with ssl2 disabled though | 20:36 |
| timeless | (specific should include the linksys model including rev, they're as bad as nokia!) | 20:36 |
| timeless | disq: is that a problem for a specific reason? | 20:36 |
| teer2 | timeless: wireless stats: 802.11 B/G, channel 6, Wireless SSID Broadcasted, WPA Personal security mode, TKIP | 20:37 |
| timeless | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=ssl2 | 20:37 |
| timeless | => disq | 20:37 |
| disq | there's no specific reason, not even sure which sites use ssl2 and which don't | 20:37 |
| timeless | if you have a specific site, please file a bug into that tree | 20:37 |
| timeless | (don't file duplicates...) | 20:37 |
| timeless | disq: you'll find out if any do when you get there :) | 20:37 |
| timeless | brb | 20:37 |
| disq | :) thanks for the update | 20:38 |
| teer2 | timeless: By icon, do you mean the WiFi four-bar meter that shows the signal strength? | 20:38 |
| teer2 | timeless: I will document what I do/see next time it happens so I can get better information to you, since you are interested. | 20:39 |
| Luria | are there any release notes/info for this microb browser? | 20:40 |
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| disq | microb loves times new roman. | 20:42 |
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| Luria | who doesnt love times new roman? | 20:43 |
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| Luria | damn, maemo.org is busy | 20:44 |
| Luria | so why isnt this vm downloading quickly... | 20:44 |
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| timeless | fwiw... | 20:44 |
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| timeless | i'm testing using apt-get install instead of application managerr | 20:45 |
| timeless | teer2: yes | 20:45 |
| timeless | teer2: i've had that icon go missing at times :) | 20:45 |
| timeless | luria: what do you want in them? | 20:45 |
| disq | timeless: so, microb is a package that replaces eal, so it's essentially the same shell (/usr/bin/browser) with a different engine running? | 20:46 |
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| timeless | disq: um, kinda | 20:46 |
| timeless | it is the same shell | 20:46 |
| timeless | same way that qnx audrey's browser worked | 20:46 |
| Luria | i use apt-get and dpkg all the time. app manager is painful. | 20:46 |
| timeless | you have 1 shell, an api layer, and n providers | 20:46 |
| teer2 | timeless: Gotcha. I will see what I can do. | 20:46 |
| ctooley | There used to be a simple step by step instruction document on using the Linux flasher to put new images on the 770's and 800's. I can't seem to find it now. | 20:47 |
| timeless | you install a provider and the shell uses whichever its default is | 20:47 |
| disq | timeless: ah. currently is there any way (gconf, conf file, whatever) to change the default without an uninstall? | 20:47 |
| timeless | yes | 20:47 |
| timeless | there's supposed to be a menu item, but it seemsit might be missing | 20:47 |
| timeless | ~/.browser | 20:48 |
| timeless | engine=opera | engine=microb | 20:48 |
| disq | ah i see. great work | 20:48 |
| Sparrow- | ctooley: link to it can be found from Ari Jaaksi's blog | 20:48 |
| disq | Dirty_State=true (so dirty) | 20:48 |
| timeless | don't change the file while the browser is open | 20:48 |
| timeless | it won't work | 20:48 |
| timeless | (browser writes its prefs when it quits...) | 20:49 |
| disq | noticed :) | 20:49 |
| disq | thanks for the help | 20:49 |
| timeless | if you set hidden=true you should definitely get an extra menu | 20:50 |
| Sparrow- | ctooley: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/ | 20:50 |
| disq | did the installation also update the browser binary? i think previously it had an hack that got rid of the default theming margins, now they're back | 20:50 |
| timeless | yes | 20:51 |
| disq | it's hildon theming's problem though :) | 20:51 |
| timeless | hildon theming *sucks* | 20:52 |
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| ctooley | thank you spaetz | 20:53 |
| ctooley | err Sparrow- | 20:53 |
| disq | yeah | 20:53 |
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| Hyperion2010 | hrm, so it seems that it is not a problem with the sd card at the moment since I can write to it from windows.... | 20:56 |
| gomiam | Hyperion2010: are you having problems reading a SD card in Maemo? | 20:58 |
| gomiam | s/Maemo/N800/ | 20:58 |
| infobot | gomiam meant: Hyperion2010: are you having problems reading a SD card in N800? | 20:58 |
| gomiam | reinsert it and, if that doesn't work, restart the tablet | 20:58 |
| gomiam | it sometimes gets stupid and won't understand there's a perfectly valid card there. | 20:58 |
| Hyperion2010 | well it will read, it just wont write | 20:59 |
| Hyperion2010 | and I'm not running the 26-4 borked things | 20:59 |
| disq | setting hidden=true showed the browsing engine selection menu | 20:59 |
| gomiam | disq: ? | 20:59 |
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| gomiam | what browsing engine selection menu? >:-) | 21:00 |
| Luria | uhh anyone know if rtcomm is usable? | 21:00 |
| Luria | would be nice not to have to run gizmo | 21:00 |
| disq | gomiam: you should read a few pages of scrollback | 21:05 |
| gomiam | oh, I should read _so_ many things. Exams take some precedence though | 21:07 |
| disq | gomiam: to sum it up: http://browser.garage.maemo.org (and the hidden=true thingy is in /home/user/.browser, allows you to switch between opera and microb) | 21:07 |
| gomiam | ! I may try it at some given time | 21:08 |
| gomiam | thanks for the info | 21:08 |
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| trevarthan | disq: how would math.sin((math.pi*current_step/2)/max_step) be used to compute a non-linear rate? | 21:09 |
| gomiam | what kind of non-linear rate would you want to compute, trevarthan? | 21:10 |
| trevarthan | I don't really. :) that's why I'm asking disq. It's his code. | 21:10 |
| gomiam | ah :-D | 21:10 |
| disq | trevarthan: you could multiply it with the max velocity. it would give you the velocity for step current_step | 21:11 |
| trevarthan | where max_step == max velocity? | 21:11 |
| gomiam | trevarthan: nope. | 21:11 |
| trevarthan | yeah, sorry. terrible at rates.... | 21:12 |
| gomiam | the code you pasted gives you values between 0 and 1 | 21:12 |
| disq | no. max_step is the length of the "track". current_step is the animated item's position in that track | 21:12 |
| gomiam | (if 0<=current_step<=max_step) | 21:12 |
| trevarthan | disq: wouldn't that give you an always increasing rate though? | 21:13 |
| disq | for instance you could use it to animate/slide the album cover image at the bottom, when the album changes. the cover image would start sliding from the bottom fast (or slow) and get slower (or faster) as it reaches its target position | 21:14 |
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| trevarthan | ah. so that gives a non-linear rate, but it's up to you to set the limit. | 21:14 |
| disq | trevarthan: the thing is it's supposed to increase in relation to a sine wave | 21:14 |
| trevarthan | I see. | 21:14 |
| trevarthan | I would probably use a spline for that same sort of thing, or a hyperbola.... | 21:15 |
| gomiam | trevarthan: I'm more partial to parabolae ;-P | 21:15 |
| disq | though probably doing these kinds of things with evas should be much easier and even may not require any code. not sure, never used it | 21:16 |
| Hyperion2010 | why is it that the nokia site change log is out of date? | 21:16 |
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| Hyperion2010 | and/or where can I get the latest change log? | 21:16 |
| trevarthan | gomiam: stop poking fun at the mathematically challenged. I get on with my crappy knowledge. I just have to google things more. :) | 21:17 |
| trevarthan | I had some good spline code a few years back when I was doing stuff with DirectX... I should dust that off and play with it. | 21:18 |
| Hyperion2010 | trevarthan, as it turns out I'm not running the latest version (3.2007.26-4) yet my sd card still registers as read only | 21:19 |
| Hyperion2010 | I checked fstab to see if anything was up with that | 21:19 |
| Hyperion2010 | but it seems that it is not | 21:19 |
| trevarthan | that's odd. I'm running 3.2007.10-7. I didn't know there was a version release between my firmware and the bad one. | 21:20 |
| trevarthan | you sure 3.2007.26-4 isn't the latest? | 21:20 |
| Hyperion2010 | hrm | 21:21 |
| Hyperion2010 | apparnetly it is the 10-7 | 21:21 |
| Hyperion2010 | cause thats what Im running | 21:21 |
| * Hyperion2010 wonders what timeless was talking about | 21:21 | |
| trevarthan | oh. you're running 10-7. ok. I get it. 26-4 is the bad one.... | 21:21 |
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| Hyperion2010 | ya | 21:21 |
| Hyperion2010 | I'm trying a restart now.... I've popped things in and out | 21:22 |
| Hyperion2010 | nothing quite seems to work | 21:22 |
| Hyperion2010 | I am using the >2gb kernel though.... | 21:22 |
| trevarthan | I've heard mention that the external SD card slot on the n800 has different electrical characteristics than the internal slot. It's possible that is what is causing these problems. Perhaps the problem exists in all firmwares. | 21:23 |
| trevarthan | you're running the SDHC kernel? | 21:23 |
| Hyperion2010 | ya | 21:23 |
| trevarthan | If you can't get the n800 to shut off, pop the battery out. Happens to me all the time. | 21:23 |
| Hyperion2010 | ah ok | 21:23 |
| Hyperion2010 | ya, I never know if its actually turned all the way off or not.... | 21:24 |
| trevarthan | If you can't get the damn thing to boot, plug it into the wall while you're booting. I had that problem yesterday. | 21:24 |
| Hyperion2010 | heh lol | 21:24 |
| Hyperion2010 | which way does this thing pop? | 21:24 |
| trevarthan | If you get a white screen while booting, then it reboots automatically, you're probably screwed. Ask me how I know. | 21:24 |
| Hyperion2010 | from the end with the +- or the other end? | 21:25 |
| trevarthan | other end | 21:25 |
| Hyperion2010 | k | 21:25 |
| trevarthan | I use the battery cover (the curved edge) to pop it out. | 21:25 |
| Hyperion2010 | got my fingernail to work | 21:25 |
| trevarthan | yow. I did that a few times, but I have to do it so much during kagu development that it made them hurt. | 21:26 |
| Hyperion2010 | haha | 21:26 |
| gomiam | While you are talking about firmware versions you have mentioned 26-4 | 21:26 |
| gomiam | is that a development version? I ask because I have 10-7 and 26-8 from the Nokia site | 21:27 |
| Hyperion2010 | blargh, still saying read only.... | 21:27 |
| Hyperion2010 | maybe it is 26-8 and I just miss typed | 21:27 |
| gomiam | Hyperion2010: stupid question, is the card in the "read-only position"? | 21:27 |
| Hyperion2010 | there's such a thing? | 21:27 |
| trevarthan | :) | 21:27 |
| gomiam | yep | 21:27 |
| Hyperion2010 | because it will write in windows | 21:27 |
| trevarthan | sometimes, yeah | 21:27 |
| Hyperion2010 | when it is hooked through the usb | 21:28 |
| gomiam | check the SD card and it could have a white sliding plastic | 21:28 |
| timeless | ok, for kicks, we're installing microb on a much older os release :) | 21:28 |
| gomiam | with a text that says "LOCK" nearby | 21:28 |
| gomiam | I have had some surprises with it | 21:28 |
| Hyperion2010 | hr, the files on the card are marked read only | 21:29 |
| Hyperion2010 | but the folders are not.... | 21:29 |
| gomiam | ! | 21:29 |
| trevarthan | something else you might try: can you format the card in windows? Perhaps formatting will hide the problem? (no clue if that's even possible) | 21:29 |
| Hyperion2010 | no idea | 21:29 |
| gomiam | trevarthan: yes, you should be able to reformat the card | 21:29 |
| Hyperion2010 | its a fat 32 right? | 21:29 |
| trevarthan | yeah | 21:29 |
| Hyperion2010 | I'll give it a shot | 21:29 |
| teer2 | Who makes the default webbrowser? Is it opera? | 21:30 |
| trevarthan | I have to wonder if one of the bits on the card just went bad or something.... | 21:30 |
| trevarthan | yeah, opera. | 21:30 |
| teer2 | trevarthan: Thanks | 21:30 |
| gomiam | Hyperion2010: if you haven't started formatting, try creating a new file (if you didn't already) | 21:31 |
| Hyperion2010 | I will | 21:31 |
| Hyperion2010 | I'm backing stuff up atm | 21:31 |
| gomiam | ok | 21:31 |
| Hyperion2010 | in windows all the files are check with "archive" anyone know if that is normal? | 21:32 |
| gomiam | Hyperion2010: yup | 21:32 |
| Hyperion2010 | k thanks | 21:32 |
| gomiam | when you copy files the already copied files are marked "Archive" | 21:32 |
| gomiam | at least, that used to be the way in MS-DOS | 21:32 |
| gomiam | and knowing the way MS develops software... :-D | 21:32 |
| Hyperion2010 | haha | 21:33 |
| Hyperion2010 | we know vista is just a slightly tweaked xp with some drm and fancy graphics and new kernel D: | 21:34 |
| gomiam | Hyperion2010: that's not the worst of it. It _all_ still runs on a 16 bit kernel ;-) | 21:34 |
| gomiam | jokes aside, you are right | 21:35 |
| trevarthan | gomiam: even the 64 bit version? | 21:35 |
| gomiam | trevarthan: well, they just put 4 16 bits kernels running concurrently | 21:35 |
| gomiam | and hope one of them stays alive when the other three crash | 21:35 |
| trevarthan | :) | 21:35 |
| gomiam | :-P | 21:35 |
| Hyperion2010 | no luck creating a new folder gomiam | 21:35 |
| gomiam | drat | 21:35 |
| Hyperion2010 | should I format through the usb connection | 21:36 |
| trevarthan | I hate mathematic notation. I don't understand a bit of it. I stopped thinking like that sometime after algebra because I started using computers.... | 21:36 |
| gomiam | "format through the usb connection" as in "through a USB SD-card reader"? | 21:36 |
| gomiam | trevarthan: ok, so what's it that is giving you problems now? | 21:37 |
| Hyperion2010 | well I have a card reader in my monitor, but I'm not sure that will work | 21:37 |
| Hyperion2010 | but when I plug the n800 into the usb | 21:37 |
| trevarthan | gomiam: I'm not telling. You'll make fun of me again. :-P | 21:37 |
| Hyperion2010 | it shows up as a drive which can be formatted | 21:37 |
| gomiam | trevarthan: no (not much, at any rate :-P ) | 21:37 |
| gomiam | no, really. What is it? | 21:38 |
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| trevarthan | there's too much of it to communicate. I'll just look it all up. | 21:38 |
| gomiam | oh, pity. Good luck then | 21:39 |
| Hyperion2010 | when is 4.2007 scheduled for release? | 21:39 |
| gomiam | Hyperion2010: I have 4.2007 already installed | 21:39 |
| gomiam | at least 4.2007.26-8 | 21:40 |
| Hyperion2010 | ah ok | 21:40 |
| gomiam | O:-) | 21:40 |
| Hyperion2010 | will the nokia updater software grab that? | 21:40 |
| gomiam | it should | 21:40 |
| Hyperion2010 | ok | 21:40 |
| gomiam | though I'm partial to downloading it directly and then upload it from disk | 21:40 |
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| Hyperion2010 | I would boot into linux | 21:40 |
| Hyperion2010 | but I'm here..... | 21:40 |
| gomiam | oh, you don't need to boot into linux to do it | 21:41 |
| gomiam | you just tell the installer where the file is | 21:41 |
| gomiam | and it goes on happily | 21:41 |
| Hyperion2010 | ah | 21:41 |
| Hyperion2010 | is there samba for the n800? | 21:42 |
| gomiam | yes | 21:42 |
| gomiam | both client and server | 21:43 |
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| Hyperion2010 | yes, I think I remember that, but since network wasnt showing up in file browser (god I would love a stripped down gnome for this thing) I figured I was just missing something | 21:43 |
| Hyperion2010 | :x | 21:43 |
| gomiam | :-D | 21:43 |
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| Hyperion2010 | I've asked around to see if people have been trying to use the "boot from mmc" kernel to stick something like gentoo on an sd card and boot from that :D | 21:44 |
| Hyperion2010 | too bad portage takes up over a gig :x | 21:44 |
| gomiam | Hyperion2010: you might want to precompile the packages somewhere else | 21:45 |
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| killfill | hi maemos! | 21:45 |
| Hyperion2010 | haha, no kidding | 21:45 |
| killfill | im trying ot use my bluetooth mic/pseaker | 21:45 |
| killfill | is it possible?... | 21:45 |
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| killfill | i have it paired already.. bu sounts still goes ou thought integrated speaker | 21:45 |
| Hyperion2010 | I've been considering procompiling my kernel and OS all before sticking the HD into my new computer when I build it :D | 21:46 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Did you guys test a webcore backend too? | 21:46 |
| gomiam | IMO, recompiling is a bit overstated. | 21:46 |
| gomiam | It may make sense in processor-intensive code | 21:47 |
| killfill | anyone have use theirh bluetooth earphones | 21:47 |
| killfill | ? | 21:47 |
| gomiam | killfill: I don't have those, so no, sorry. | 21:47 |
| killfill | :S | 21:47 |
| gomiam | does the Bt microphone work, though? | 21:47 |
| killfill | finnaly got SIPw roking in here.. :D~ | 21:47 |
| Hyperion2010 | hehe, well with quad cores I'm sure you could just have a core dedicated to it at all times :D | 21:47 |
| trevarthan | there we go, there's some good bezier code: http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/javascript-beziers | 21:48 |
| killfill | bu i need my earphone to work too.. :S | 21:48 |
| killfill | hm.. letme try | 21:48 |
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| gomiam | killfill: let's go part by part. First check the mike and then we'll think about the speakers :-) | 21:48 |
| killfill | heh | 21:49 |
| killfill | well it doesnt work neither | 21:49 |
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| killfill | at least on the sip software (telephaty is its name?) | 21:49 |
| gomiam | ok, let me google for a bit | 21:49 |
| gomiam | teorethically (these english writers, it should be theorically, shouldn't it?) there's a Human Interface Profile for Bluetooth on N800 | 21:52 |
| gomiam | I would expect it to be something more than just Bluetooth keyboard support | 21:52 |
| gomiam | but perhaps it isn't | 21:52 |
| Hyperion2010 | well it at least does data connection.... | 21:53 |
| killfill | well i notice when switching to the new OS2007 from april | 21:53 |
| killfill | that all bt devices are visible.. before only phones | 21:53 |
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| Hyperion2010 | ya, I pick up computers, phones, keyboards | 21:54 |
| Hyperion2010 | sadly I dont think a bt mouse would work :( | 21:54 |
| Hyperion2010 | that would rox | 21:54 |
| gomiam | mmm... that might make sense. N770 needed a third-party Bluetooth driver to connect to keyboards. | 21:54 |
| killfill | Hyperion2010: you dont happend to have a headset do you?.. :) | 21:55 |
| Hyperion2010 | na, I rarely use my sound on it, though I've actually though about getting one :x | 21:55 |
| Hyperion2010 | did you chekc internettablettalk? | 21:55 |
| killfill | the forums? | 21:56 |
| Hyperion2010 | ya | 21:56 |
| Hyperion2010 | btw, gomiam, format didnt work either :o | 21:56 |
| * killfill joining | 21:56 | |
| gomiam | ouch | 21:56 |
| Hyperion2010 | heh | 21:57 |
| gomiam | that makes little sense | 21:57 |
| gomiam | ok | 21:57 |
| Hyperion2010 | I'm going to update anyway | 21:57 |
| gomiam | send the card to me, paid posts of course and I'll keep it :-P | 21:57 |
| Hyperion2010 | haha | 21:57 |
| Hyperion2010 | it works fine in all other settins..... | 21:57 |
| Hyperion2010 | ah well | 21:57 |
| gomiam | excuses, excuses | 21:57 |
| gomiam | now, get posting :-D | 21:57 |
| Hyperion2010 | you have to ssh to get gainroot to work right? | 21:58 |
| gomiam | mmm... no | 21:58 |
| gomiam | I think you only need to install osso-xterm and becomeroot | 21:58 |
| disq | timeless: should test it in 2007HE | 21:58 |
| Hyperion2010 | ah ok, well Im going to do the update now | 21:58 |
| gomiam | good | 21:59 |
| Hyperion2010 | and then if it continues to be borked | 21:59 |
| Hyperion2010 | I will yell at them :) | 21:59 |
| Hyperion2010 | since it will be akin to the problems others have had | 21:59 |
| Hyperion2010 | but I think I'll take it out for the update... | 21:59 |
| Hyperion2010 | also, does it matter if you switch the internal and external sd cards? | 22:00 |
| Hyperion2010 | (my internal is swap space) | 22:00 |
| gomiam | maybe not | 22:00 |
| Hyperion2010 | k | 22:00 |
| gomiam | of course switching would require recreating the swapspace. | 22:00 |
| Hyperion2010 | of course :) | 22:01 |
| Hyperion2010 | i'll deal with that later | 22:01 |
| Hyperion2010 | ah hang on.... | 22:01 |
| * gomiam hangs on... | 22:01 | |
| * gomiam feels his fingers slip... | 22:01 | |
| Hyperion2010 | trying the lock slider | 22:02 |
| * gomiam falls to a dark, untimely and ultimately crunching death | 22:02 | |
| gomiam | :-P | 22:02 |
| Hyperion2010 | but that really shouldnt have been the problem.... | 22:02 |
| Hyperion2010 | since I formatted it ffs | 22:02 |
| Hyperion2010 | lol no beans | 22:03 |
| Hyperion2010 | LOL | 22:03 |
| Hyperion2010 | well it can make new folders now... | 22:03 |
| gomiam | time to go see the big blue room before it gets dark | 22:03 |
| Hyperion2010 | just no backup | 22:03 |
| * Xark is quite impressed with the new mozilla based browser. I tad slowish, but very functional. (Woo-hoo! Google apps! - I missed Reader) | 22:05 | |
| Hyperion2010 | lulz, gomiam, that was infact, the problem :x | 22:06 |
| Hyperion2010 | :D | 22:06 |
| * Hyperion2010 is brilliant | 22:06 | |
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| Hyperion2010 | anyone else get a very sligh screen flicker when using the lowest brightness setting? | 22:07 |
| Xark | Hyperion2010: I have noticed that. I am guessing the brightness is affected by wifi power use. | 22:08 |
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| Hyperion2010 | ah ok | 22:08 |
| * pupnik holds breath for 3430 or 3420 and starts turning blue | 22:09 | |
| pupnik | maybe spring/summer 2008? | 22:10 |
| timeless | can someone explain how to do basic arithmetic using only tools that are included in a standard n800_ | 22:11 |
| timeless | i only need addition and subtraction | 22:11 |
| Hyperion2010 | isnt there a built in calculator? | 22:11 |
| Hyperion2010 | utilites I think? | 22:11 |
| timeless | i need a command line thing | 22:11 |
| timeless | iC$m writing a complicated shell script like creature | 22:11 |
| timeless | for someone else to run :) | 22:12 |
| Hyperion2010 | heh, that you will have to get someone else to explain :x | 22:12 |
| Xark | timeless: Like: echo $[2 + 2] | 22:14 |
| timeless | yeah | 22:14 |
| timeless | Nokia-N800-10:/tmp# echo $[2 + 2] | 22:14 |
| timeless | $[2 + 2] | 22:14 |
| Xark | timeless: Works in bash, not sure about busybox... | 22:14 |
| timeless | well, thatC$s a real device running a real standard release | 22:14 |
| timeless | nothing magical about it | 22:14 |
| Xark | timebase: Yeah, mine too, but I installed bash on it. :) | 22:15 |
| timeless | yeah, but iC$m trying to write this for someone who is unlikely to do that | 22:15 |
| timeless | well, actually, whatever | 22:15 |
| timeless | i don't want to depend on it | 22:15 |
| dougsko | timeless: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/bc/ | 22:16 |
| GAN800 | Anybody try the new browser? | 22:16 |
| GAN800 | Just installed, do I need to reboot. | 22:16 |
| Hyperion2010 | GAN800, just restart the browser itself | 22:17 |
| GAN800 | SWEEEEEET! Thanks! :D | 22:19 |
| Xark | timeless: You could probably use awk (in busybox) for simple math. | 22:19 |
| X-Fade | Now we need to port Adblock to the new browser :) Downloading ads while on gprs isn't fun.. | 22:20 |
| GAN800 | Privoxy | 22:21 |
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| _Shurik_ | fellow tabloids | 22:29 |
| _Shurik_ | I greet you | 22:29 |
| GAN800 | This just in, Jessica Alba is a dirty whore! | 22:29 |
| _Shurik_ | her hot water heater broke? | 22:30 |
| _Shurik_ | (redundancy alert) | 22:30 |
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| Xark | Does anybody know how to check the N800 battery level from a command line (via ssh)? | 22:34 |
| _Shurik_ | I do not | 22:34 |
| Xark | Oh well. Can't find anyting in /proc... | 22:34 |
| _Shurik_ | but it is a good question though | 22:35 |
| Xark | Yeah, it would be handy. I guess I will have to install vnc server. :-) | 22:35 |
| _Shurik_ | Can't you just like bring n800 with you? :) | 22:36 |
| dougsko | you might be able to use dbus to find the battery level | 22:36 |
| Xark | _Shurik_: Its just in the other room, I just don't want to leave it on charger all the time (so I want to know when it gets low). | 22:37 |
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| Hyperion2010 | it safe to do a firmware update with the power cord plugged in? | 22:37 |
| _Shurik_ | Xark, right, bring it with you to the other room :) | 22:37 |
| _Shurik_ | Mine n800 goes everywhere I go :) | 22:37 |
| Xark | _Shurik_: Yeah, but I wanted it to send me mail when it gets low on power (since I will forget to check it). | 22:38 |
| _Shurik_ | aah | 22:38 |
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| _Shurik_ | interesting concept actually | 22:39 |
| Xark | No biggie. I will just have to listen for the "batter low noise", but it can be difficult mixed with techno music. :) | 22:39 |
| _Shurik_ | problem is that I usually keep it offline when not in use | 22:39 |
| _Shurik_ | so I need a software that will help n800 plug itself in when battery is low | 22:40 |
| _Shurik_ | or switch it's own battery | 22:41 |
| _Shurik_ | but then I'm risking owning a transformer | 22:42 |
| Xark | Yeah, or spawning SkyNet. :) | 22:42 |
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| _Shurik_ | mmm, liquid n800 | 22:42 |
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| X-Fade | Ah, tableteer doesn't recognize the N800 when using the new browser ;) I guess they don't recognize the user agent... | 22:51 |
| _Shurik_ | anyting good on that site anyway? | 22:52 |
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| gpd | so I installed microb-browser - but nothing in the menus. | 22:55 |
| X-Fade | Nah, but I was testing the browser. Finding rendering bugs.. | 22:55 |
| X-Fade | gpd: It replaces the original one.. | 22:55 |
| X-Fade | Or at least changes the engine to microb.. | 22:55 |
| gpd | holy crap - you mean no more opera? | 22:55 |
| _Shurik_ | I have no issues with opera | 22:55 |
| X-Fade | gpd: You can change it back :) | 22:56 |
| gpd | seems a little aggressive | 22:56 |
| X-Fade | I described it in this bug :) https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1669 | 22:56 |
| gpd | where do I change it back (lazy) | 22:56 |
| disq | gpd: edit ~/.browser, change hidden to true | 22:56 |
| gpd | wow - early days I guess | 22:57 |
| disq | gpd: then there'll be a menuitem in the browser to change it (or you could also change engine=microb to engine=opera) (make sure you don't have any browser windows open or it'll revert) | 22:57 |
| gpd | but a nice addition nonetheless :D | 22:57 |
| X-Fade | gpd: It is _beta_ :) | 22:57 |
| disq | afaik it's pre-beta actually | 22:57 |
| gpd | inded - i accept graciously | 22:58 |
| X-Fade | Well certainly not for endusers.. | 22:58 |
| X-Fade | But it does a pretty decent job.. | 22:58 |
| zuh | Seems to work fine with google calendar though, and seems faster to me than opera too | 22:58 |
| gpd | no danger of google gears until they release it for armel | 22:58 |
| zuh | But I use the browser so little I could be wrong ;) | 22:58 |
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| X-Fade | Zuh, it is a little slower than opera to me.. Resizing is way slower.. | 22:59 |
| zuh | Could be, didn't actually test it that much yet | 22:59 |
| zuh | And that's the expectation anyway | 22:59 |
| X-Fade | And resizing is buggy. Hence bug 1671 ;) | 22:59 |
| disq | it hits the over 90% avg cpu mark easier than opera, whilst loading sites | 22:59 |
| X-Fade | But still. It is not bad. | 23:00 |
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| Xark | gpd: I think it has a "Set Engine" file menu option to switch back to Opera... | 23:01 |
| _Shurik_ | I'd like for Opera to remember "optimized view" settings on per site basis | 23:01 |
| Xark | Shurik: Yes, since on some sites its a disaster and on others virtually required. | 23:02 |
| zuh | Perfectly adequate for my browsing on that thing, I dislike it in general so it's very rare (even more so since I don't have mobile net access anyway) | 23:02 |
| _Shurik_ | I wonder if anyone entered this as a request | 23:02 |
| _Shurik_ | but in general everyone is now going to start caring about low res devices all of the sudden | 23:03 |
| _Shurik_ | not that long ago noone cared about 800x600 anymore when designing sites | 23:03 |
| zuh | Yeah, and it shows | 23:03 |
| _Shurik_ | although there are still people on that res... I wonder where they come from | 23:04 |
| _Shurik_ | (non mobile I mean) | 23:04 |
| Xark | X-Fade: Yeah, its noticably slower than Opera, but much better functionality. I'm pretty happy with it for a first release. | 23:04 |
| _Shurik_ | Xarc: microb? | 23:04 |
| Xark | Shurik: Yeah. | 23:04 |
| X-Fade | Xark: Yep, few rendering bugs make my life a little harder. But hey, you can't have it all :) | 23:04 |
| _Shurik_ | interesting | 23:05 |
| _Shurik_ | minimo had a good potential | 23:05 |
| Xark | X-Fade: I am very happy to get access to Google apps (without minimo which I wasn't too happy with). | 23:05 |
| _Shurik_ | simply because I think mozilla renders html the way it was intended | 23:05 |
| Xark | Shurik: Doesn't microb use the same rendering engine? | 23:06 |
| _Shurik_ | I have no idea, I just heard about it few minutes ago :)) | 23:06 |
| _Shurik_ | haven't googled it yet... moving some files into production right now | 23:06 |
| X-Fade | Xark: It uses Gecko. Just like Firefox does.. | 23:06 |
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| Xark | Shurik: My impression is that is a customized mozilla derivitave (or at least using Gekko rendering engine). | 23:07 |
| _Shurik_ | very interesting | 23:07 |
| _Shurik_ | is there a way to have it without it replacing opera? | 23:07 |
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| unique311 | yes | 23:07 |
| Xark | _Shurik_: There is a file menu to switch back to opera engine. | 23:07 |
| X-Fade | Xark: It uses Gecko 1.9 which will also be in Firefox 3.0 | 23:07 |
| _Shurik_ | wicked | 23:08 |
| unique311 | .browser file located in the user folder | 23:08 |
| _Shurik_ | I hope it has a better support base then minimo | 23:08 |
| Xark | X-Fade: Renders pages pretty nicely (Opera always had a few oddities). | 23:08 |
| unique311 | and change hidden:false to hidden:true | 23:08 |
| _Monkey | unique311: that doesn't look right | 23:08 |
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| unique311 | well i did it and i have the choice to use opera or microb now | 23:08 |
| unique311 | there's a file called .browser located in /home/user/ | 23:09 |
| unique311 | hidden=false to hidden=true | 23:10 |
| unique311 | make sure the browser is not in use | 23:10 |
| unique311 | google maps doesn't seem to want to work in the new browser correctly... | 23:12 |
| unique311 | switch back to opera and it works.. | 23:12 |
| X-Fade | unique311: Maps works for me? | 23:14 |
| unique311 | sucks for me then.... | 23:14 |
| _Shurik_ | use maemo mapper :) | 23:14 |
| _Shurik_ | for maps | 23:14 |
| unique311 | maemo mapper doesn't offer street view | 23:15 |
| Luria | has anyone tried the rtcomm patch? | 23:15 |
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| _Shurik_ | unique: what do you mean street view? | 23:16 |
| _Shurik_ | Luria: what's that for? | 23:16 |
| unique311 | new feature from google maps... | 23:16 |
| unique311 | shows you the streets.. | 23:16 |
| * _Shurik_ loading maps.google.com | 23:16 | |
| unique311 | maybe you should check it out | 23:16 |
| unique311 | yes | 23:16 |
| unique311 | major cities right now | 23:16 |
| _Shurik_ | are you talking about traffic? | 23:17 |
| Luria | _Shurik_, rtcomm.garage.maemo.org | 23:17 |
| _Shurik_ | Luria: looking | 23:18 |
| Luria | sip patch for n800 | 23:18 |
| _Shurik_ | aaah | 23:18 |
| unique311 | working... | 23:18 |
| unique311 | had to change settings.. | 23:18 |
| _Shurik_ | nope | 23:18 |
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| unique311 | try it on your notebook or desktop | 23:20 |
| timeless | x-fade: you have 4.2007, right? | 23:20 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Yep. | 23:21 |
| _Shurik_ | whoa | 23:22 |
| _Shurik_ | they didn't have it for my not-so-major city | 23:23 |
| onion | bah, N800 owners get all the fun stuff :( | 23:23 |
| unique311 | it works on the N800 | 23:23 |
| unique311 | shurik what city? | 23:23 |
| _Shurik_ | Atlanta | 23:23 |
| _Shurik_ | I checked NY out, funkey | 23:24 |
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| timeless | x-fade: i'm walking home | 23:24 |
| timeless | in 20mins i can give you a script which will let you make non 4.2007 users happy | 23:24 |
| _Shurik_ | timeless: watch out for that.... pole | 23:24 |
| unique311 | street view is a goood add from google...now it works on the n800...priceless... | 23:25 |
| X-Fade | timeless: I have to get to bed :( | 23:25 |
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| timeless | x-fade: well, we'll see if someone else nibbles | 23:25 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Will check the backscroll when I wake up :) | 23:25 |
| timeless | ok :). i only have 200 lines, so ican't do that :) | 23:25 |
| * timeless goes to check for 3 bugs | 23:26 | |
| X-Fade | timeless: irssi baby ;) | 23:27 |
| timeless | i can't afford more lines | 23:27 |
| timeless | i'd never get work done | 23:27 |
| db48x | heh | 23:27 |
| unique311 | _Shurik_, kinda shock atlanta is not considered a major city.... | 23:31 |
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| _Shurik_ | no it is, but we just think that taking one's picture captures one's soul | 23:32 |
| unique311 | lol | 23:32 |
| killfill | gomiam: didnt find anything about the bt headset?.. :) | 23:32 |
| Blacksitox | whats IDE python on n800? | 23:32 |
| unique311 | the google van didn't make its way down there yet.. | 23:32 |
| unique311 | thats all | 23:32 |
| _Shurik_ | right :) | 23:32 |
| _Shurik_ | Although we do have their regional hosting here. I even saw it once | 23:33 |
| unique311 | so only a matter of time before it shows up... | 23:33 |
| _Shurik_ | they just probably haven't come around to hacking into street cams yet | 23:33 |
| unique311 | if you seen it down there... | 23:33 |
| db48x | that'd be a cool mashup | 23:33 |
| db48x | live traffic cams replacing google's street views | 23:34 |
| unique311 | pretty sure they have plans to do so... | 23:36 |
| unique311 | not sure how legal that would be... | 23:36 |
| unique311 | helpful for the law.. | 23:36 |
| _Shurik_ | yes | 23:36 |
| unique311 | not too good for the criminals out there.. | 23:36 |
| _Shurik_ | streetcam + crime | 23:36 |
| unique311 | gotta look out for the criminals..they have rights too. | 23:37 |
| _Shurik_ | I'M FEELING LUCKY | 23:37 |
| unique311 | NYC already have enough camera's on the streets... | 23:37 |
| unique311 | don't think you can go on any block without seeing a camera | 23:38 |
| _Shurik_ | I would like to have more cameras pointing into the windows of NYC | 23:38 |
| _Shurik_ | which is what google is doing anyway. I heard they patented tv with webcam. With google regime TV is watching YOU! | 23:39 |
| db48x | it'd be perfectly legal | 23:40 |
| db48x | anything that happens in the public can be recorded and displayed by anybody for any purpose | 23:40 |
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| unique311 | says the individual who doesn't live in NY | 23:41 |
| db48x | anything that happens inside a private building but is nevertheless visible to someone in the public right of way is also fair game | 23:42 |
| Luria | hence the "public" thing | 23:43 |
| unique311 | are you paparazzi db48x | 23:43 |
| db48x | no | 23:43 |
| Luria | though it has its limitations... ir signatures, no matter how far they eminate into the "public" sphere are not fair game | 23:44 |
| db48x | you mean like trademarks? | 23:44 |
| db48x | logos and things? | 23:44 |
| Luria | and nyc does not need more cameras | 23:44 |
| Luria | no, i meant IR | 23:44 |
| db48x | oh, right | 23:44 |
| unique311 | should apply to anything.. | 23:45 |
| db48x | that is sort of a grey area | 23:45 |
| unique311 | if i can pick up my neighbors wireless signal and surf..should be fair game | 23:45 |
| unique311 | but no they want to give you 5 to 10 years... | 23:45 |
| db48x | yea, radio broadcasts are assumed to be publicly available, but not IR | 23:45 |
| unique311 | if a girl is changing next door...and i happen to look from my window... | 23:46 |
| unique311 | i can also serve some time... | 23:46 |
| Luria | not grey | 23:46 |
| Luria | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States | 23:46 |
| unique311 | not sure about that public sphere part.. | 23:46 |
| unique311 | lol | 23:46 |
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| db48x | Luria: that only adds one more situation where the police have to be doubly certain to get a warrant | 23:52 |
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| db48x | Luria: it has no effect on a private citizen | 23:52 |
| Luria | true | 23:52 |
| timeless | anyway | 23:52 |
| Luria | that would have to be done by legislation | 23:52 |
| timeless | i've stuck a list of what people should do for filing microb bugs into bug 1672 | 23:53 |
| timeless | please please read that bug before filing bugs | 23:53 |
| db48x | arrg, my build failed | 23:53 |
| trevarthan | ok, I've read 'microb' about 20 times, and I still don't know what it is or does. Anyone? | 23:53 |
| trevarthan | microb? | 23:53 |
| timeless | it's the engine codename | 23:53 |
| Luria | gaah. this vm downloads so slowly on whoevers WAP this is | 23:53 |
| trevarthan | badmonkey | 23:53 |
| _Monkey | badmonkey is a _Monkey that gets no biscuit! | 23:53 |
| Luria | lol | 23:53 |
| db48x | heh, wrong bugzilla | 23:54 |
| timeless | db48x? | 23:54 |
| db48x | timeless: naturally I just typed bug 1674 into my browser | 23:54 |
| timeless | heh | 23:54 |
| timeless | http://wiki.mozilla.org/Gtkmozembed | 23:54 |
| trevarthan | timeless: what engine? | 23:54 |
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| timeless | trevarthan: Mozilla based browser for maemo | 23:55 |
| guardian | good evening maemo | 23:55 |
| Hyperion2010 | what button do I have to hold during boot to get into update mode (usb)? | 23:55 |
| trevarthan | oh. It's only for the new firmware too? | 23:55 |
| timeless | um | 23:55 |
| timeless | i'm running it on 3.2007-10 :) | 23:55 |
| timeless | i'll post an explanation after i walk home | 23:55 |
| trevarthan | k. sounds good. | 23:55 |
| trevarthan | It's Nokia... um.... packaged? | 23:56 |
| disq | more people will be happy if it ran on 2007he | 23:56 |
| disq | trevarthan: i see you added some padding :) | 23:56 |
| trevarthan | yeah. :) you like? | 23:56 |
| disq | didn't update yet. browsing lolats | 23:57 |
| disq | lolcats | 23:57 |
| trevarthan | I'm in the process of trying to figure out how I'm going to extract the scrolling text part out of the Text widget so I can incorporate it into just a portion of the Song widget now. I think I'm going to make a new ScrollingText widget.... | 23:57 |
| trevarthan | It's only 5px of padding on each side. Looks better though. | 23:58 |
| *** pdz has quit IRC | 23:58 | |
| Luria | wow, did st:voyager suck. its like watching a car crash. | 23:59 |
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