IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2007-07-13

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unique311thoughtfix and his N800 successor...00:23
unique311first thoughtfix..00:23
unique311come on guys, with the iphone looking like it does.00:24
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disqmy idea of jog dial at the right top corner-side is great btw :P00:25
tigert ;-)00:25
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dhdhey ... I'm having some difficulties using the ALSA API for audio capture on the N800 ... is this the recommended way to record audio or should one use GStreamer instead?00:27
tigertdhd: use gstreamer00:27
dhdcool thanks, I noticed that's what maemo-recorder does00:27
unique311will it blend00:28
tigertyeah :D00:28
unique311that sucks....00:28
tigertshould blend a 770 if it wasnt so cute and nice00:28
unique311i think he blended a fake..00:28
unique311one of those ifakes00:28
disqit's like a snuff movie for geeks00:33
unique311not sure i like to see electronices go out like that00:35
dhdalso is there any info about the audio capabilities of the device?  It appears to be capable of 8kHz 16-bit audio, and I'm presuming it doesn't do anything better since the input is basically meant for VoIP...00:35
dhdthe audio input on the N800 that is00:35
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unique311does look like konttorri's MP00:44
{abo}disq: haha :)00:47
devunique311: #it is a "fork"00:47
unique311fork...i remember that word....00:48
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unique311koen didn't like it being used for angstrom00:48
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mattbmcI think I somehow just locked myself out of root level access following the instructions here:
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mattbmcStep 4 on that doc needs to become Steps 4 though 10...   I voluntarily skipped the steps in Step for of adding "user" to sudoer's...01:11
mattbmcThen I proceeded to lock dropbear out of giving root access by changing its config.01:11
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mattbmcThe way that doc is written, it sounds like I should still be able to "sudo su -" to get root.   (Which I know if I'd stepped back maybe I should have realized...but I'd rather fix the doc than figure that out.)01:15
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mattbmcI'll figure out how to get edit access to fix the doc later I have any hope of ganing root with things as they are?01:16
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mattbmc(the Midgard CMS Toolbar seems to be incompatible with Safari....I'm fine in Firefox.)01:18
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NeoStriderhello folks!02:02
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dick-richardsonsomeone have the latest google maps url for maemo mapper?02:28
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maddlerdick-richardson: v=w2.5602:29
maddlerdick-richardson: changing that in the URL should fix...02:29
dick-richardsonthank you!02:29
maddleryou are welcome!02:30
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trashedah, fishing for wifi...02:34
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mattbmclooking for some help...02:48
mattbmcI think I somehow just locked myself out of root level access following the instructions here:
mattbmcStep 4 on that doc needs to become Steps 4 though 10...   I voluntarily skipped the steps in Step for of adding "user" to sudoer's...thinking it was optional02:49
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mattbmcI'll figure out how to get edit access to fix the doc later I have any hope of ganing root with things as they are?02:49
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pupnik||cw: the ti99 4/a was slick.  In 1981 we had a TI guy demo one to us at compu-camp02:50
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dick-richardsonmaddler: are either of those correct?03:09
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GeneralAntillesAnybody been able to install Xchat on the new firmware?03:09
metatronusing xchat right now03:09
GeneralAntillesWouldn't go for me earlier today.03:10
GeneralAntilles"Application Package not found" or somesuch.03:10
mattbmcI've been on it using the latest 2006...not sure you're talking about that tho03:10
GeneralAntillesSuppose I should try with apt03:10
GeneralAntillesHow did SSH suddenly become so SLOW03:10
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metatronis it possible that the wifi is worse with the new firmware?03:12
mattbmcOnce root is enabled, is it recommended to disable root altoghether and just have "user" with sudo access?   ..or better to diable root logins altogether?03:12
mattbmc..or just have a relatively strong root password?03:12
metatronmatt: user with sudo, passwd -l on root is best03:13
metatronnot what i do, but best balance03:13
mattbmcmetatron:  you see my earlier post....I'm in a little root-predicament on my 770 presently03:14
metatronsome of it03:14
metatronmy net connection is bad03:14
mattbmcwonder if you have any ideas, or if I should just reinstall the OS again....(which is not a big deal)03:14
mattbmcthat's not good!  :)03:15
metatronmy net connection is bad03:21
_Monkeyi already had it that way, metatron.03:21
metatronmatt: you disabled root, and didnt add user to sudoers?03:22
dick-richardsonmaemo mapper is killing me03:22
metatroni wish maemo mappers didnt die when the gps connection is lost03:22
dick-richardsonI wish I had a url that worked :/03:23
metatroni wish maemo mappers didnt die when the gps connection is lost03:23
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metatronim sorry everyone03:24
metatronmy bt keyboard is acting up03:24
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CtrlRDoes anyone know if it is possible to connect through a Treo 770wx?03:37
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dick-richardsonis there a reason it's so damn hard to find the url to use google or microsoft live maps w/maemo mapper? it's like I'm asking about tiananmen square in communist china03:47
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dick-richardsonalthough in china I could at least do a google search via tor :P03:48
Piodick-richardson, the newest maemo-maps supplies them for you03:48
Pioer maemo-mapper03:48
dick-richardsonnot for my area it doesn't03:49
Piomanage repositories, click download03:49
dick-richardsoni get great white-ness03:49
Piono? isnt a google maps url the same all over the world?03:49
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Piodick-richardson,  see the second post03:50
dick-richardsonthe default repo is for openstreet03:50
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dick-richardsonthere's no way to do routes directly in maemo mapper?03:56
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GrumpyOldManum... how common is a 770 to just have a white screen.05:03
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milhousewhat kind of white screen - got any vertical streaks/corruption?05:10
milhouseor has it just hung during boot?05:10
acydlordman, i want an openmoko kit but i don't have the cash to lay down lol05:14
GrumpyOldMansome vertical lines. before i reflashed it it looked like it was running fine just i couldn't see the display05:14
GrumpyOldMannow it sounds like it loads and shuts off when i hit power but thats about it.05:15
milhouselike this?
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milhouseor like this?
GrumpyOldManlike the first one.05:22
milhouseis your 770 new?05:22
milhouseor bought second hand?05:22
milhousethis is a serious problem you have, and requires a repair05:22
GrumpyOldManjust bought it from woot.05:23
milhousethat sucks, i thought this problem had been fixed05:24
GrumpyOldManjust for a 2gb mem card. and put a vid on it to play.05:24
milhouseit's known as a "White Screen of Death" - basically, a chip on the LCD had fried (or something like that - it's a design fault)05:24
GrumpyOldManleaving on a trip next weekend and this was my entertainment/internet connection.05:24
milhouseyou need to contact Nokia for an in-warranty repair, or see if Woot will replace it05:25
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acydlordthat's bad luck05:26
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GrumpyOldMannot a chance I'll have it for my trip then :(05:26
GrumpyOldManis this a common thing ?05:26
milhouseI don't know if "common" is the right word, but it certainly was a known issue with some 770s05:27
GrumpyOldManif it gets fixed is it likely to fail again05:28
milhouseif Nokia haven't fixed the design problem, the answer is yes - it's possible05:28
milhousea small number of users have had two fail... chances of that happening to you must be pretty low though05:28
milhousebut possible05:28
GrumpyOldMandoes anything set it off ?05:29
milhouseyes, rebootingf05:29
milhouseit's caused by a race condition during boot - once it occurs, an LCD driver chip becomes permanently damaged05:29
milhouseit usually happens within the first dozen boots05:30
milhousei'm amazed this hasn't been fixed on the production line... that is really, really crap05:31
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GrumpyOldManthanks for the info. time to go finish cleaning for my 2 year olds b-day party05:33
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deejoewill OS 2006 stuff run under OS 2007?06:04
deejoeI'm wondering about kismet and gpsd, for starters.06:05
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pupnik_yes deejoe much will06:08
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deejoecool.  thanks, pupnik06:09
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megabyte405deejoe: keep in mind that kismet has some issues with the n800 - it will randomly stop working after a short amount of time06:16
megabyte405blame buggy wireless drivers06:16
jga23is there any way to update the vmware image of maemo to the latest bora verison?06:18
deejoemegabyte405: ok.  that's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for.06:19
deejoeshort meaning seconds?  minutes?06:19
megabyte405meaning sometimes it works06:19
megabyte405sometimes it stops seeing new networks after 30 seconds06:19
megabyte405some people say they get it to run longer, but for me it's an either-or: 10-30 seconds or works perfectly06:20
megabyte405jga23: look on the maemo web site on how to upgrade the sdk - it's like 3 command lines06:20
deejoein any case, not my only reason to get an n800, but warwalking the neighborhood sure would be nicer than with a 15.4" laptop.06:20
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jga23what is the difference between SDK_X86 and SDK_ARMEL?06:21
deejoeanyway, thanks, megabyte40506:22
pupnikone runs on the x86 cpu, the other runs arm binaries using the qemu emulator06:22
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megabyte405deejoe: yeah - hopefully new firmwares will fix the driver06:22
megabyte405jga23: exactly what it sounds like - one compiles for X86 desktop computers (aka, to test in the VM), the other compiles for Arm: the chipset in the device itself06:22
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jga23so if I'm just testing python apps, does it matter which one I use?06:23
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joshinHas anyone built psmisc (top & ps) for the latest 770 firmware?06:52
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pupnikit's not built-in?06:54
pupniki have top and ps on IT2007HE06:55
joshinbusybox's top and ps are rather lacking.06:55
Luriagah busybox06:56
Luriai understand it on my wrt54, but why oh why on the tablets...06:56
Presence_cause its small and is built for low memory environments07:03
Luriaoh, i get it. i think the n series is big enough for a real toolset.07:04
megabyte405joshin: it is probably close to trivial in the maemo sdk vmware appliance07:08
megabyte405except that's the 2007 sdk - but for a console app it probably wont' matter07:09
joshinmegabyte405: you're probably right.  figured to check here before I decide if it is worth the effort to go ahead and build it.07:09
megabyte405joshin: for extra credit, rebuild a debian source package and post the deb somewhere :D07:10
joshinBah.  :)07:12
Luriai'm liking debs over install scripts more and more... especially after my skype problems07:12
* joshin thinks about porting Gentoo to his 770. :)07:12
joshinI have it running on my NSLU2.07:12
megabyte405I presume you cross-compile?07:13
megabyte405(or you don't really use the slug for anything)07:13
joshinMore or less.  I have a second one that builds packages and hands off the compiling to the amd64 boxes.07:13
joshinMy slug runs my irssi proxy, my dhcp server, and the squid proxy server so that the kids can surf the internet "safely"07:14
joshinOh, and a secondary name server too.07:14
mattbmcAnyone there who can speak to "becomeroot"'s warning about possibly bricking my 770 by using it?   Is this really likekly?07:15
Presence_I did it easily with becomeroot207:15
megabyte405mattbmc: don't delete anything07:15
Presence_no chance of bricking as long as you dont delete stuff07:15
megabyte405don't run apt-get dist-upgrade07:15
mattbmcso it's merely a warning about "being root"....nothing about the software will brick my unit as long as I don't do something dumb with it?07:16
megabyte405right, AFAIK07:16
megabyte405(but I am not responsible if you brick it :D )07:16
Luriaoh wow, you can run asterisk on those nslu2 things? (i wikipedia'ed the thing; i had no idea)07:16
megabyte405and you have to be careful not to apt-get upgrade07:16
mattbmci.e.  apt-get clean is no risk?07:16
megabyte405since you might get SDK package versions07:16
megabyte405which would really screw tings up07:16
megabyte405not sure what that does07:16
mattbmcI'm with you there.07:16
megabyte405there has been at least one person in here in the last week who bricked trying to upgrade that way07:17
Luriaif you remove the sdk repository, is it still a problem?07:17
megabyte405and I'm in here only a few hours each night07:17
megabyte405Luria: I'm not sure, but I'm not about to try07:17
megabyte405it's officially not supported and probably will brick things for maemo 3.2 and below07:17
megabyte405I guess "modular updates" (read: apt-get dist-upgrade) is a feature of Maemo 4.0 that they're working on07:18
Luriathat would be nice, because i hate the graphical package manager07:18
megabyte405I got used to it07:19
Luriaits so damn slow07:19
megabyte405that's a good point07:19
Luriaand very buggy07:19
megabyte405esp. if you're in red pill mode, it take forever07:19
Presence_at least the log is halfway decent07:19
megabyte405but heck, synaptic takes forever on my desktop machine, which isn't underpowered by a long shot07:19
megabyte405so go figure07:19
Luriayes, but lets count the bugs...07:20
mattbmcWell...a little back story:   Installing canola, something bad must have happened on the network becuase I always get "Installation File Is Corrupt"07:20
mattbmcThe author is tellin me to try a apt-get clean to clear up any bogus package files I might have on board causing this....need sudo or root to do this, however.  (As far as I can tell, anyway.)07:20
mattbmcSo I see the very-insufficient "brick warning" on becomeroot and go and try the other method:07:20
megabyte405I just get the occasional "won't install from the web"07:20
megabyte405mattbmc: is it an install file or a deb?07:20
megabyte405if it's a deb, it often likes to install from saved rather than "open in package manager" right from the browser07:20
megabyte405try it with the package manager closed first07:20
megabyte405those usually do it for me07:21
Luriamegabyte: fine, so you redownload - and then when it tried to handle two packages at once (cause it took 5 minutes to recognize the dl) it crashes07:21
mattbmc...unfortunaly the combination of poor writing in that article and my poor *nix skilz combined and I didn't add my "user" user to sudo'ers before disabling root07:21
megabyte405sudo gainroot07:21
_Monkeysudo gainroot is failing. Is there any other way to switch to root?07:21
megabyte405yeah, ssh07:21
mattbmcCanola has an install file.07:21
megabyte405mattbmc: try making sure you have the basic maemo repositories first07:21
Luriabut the biggest problem with the package mgr is this nice little bug - it keeps proxy info after you clear it...07:22
Luriaie, clear the proxy server in the connection settings07:23
Luriawhich is a big problem, say... if you use privoxy and try to backup, flash, restore.07:24
megabyte405ahh, that sucks07:24
mattbmcmegabyte405:  This was on a a fresh OS install with only a few additional installer-based packages loaded before the Canola attempt (Xterm, VNC...a few others), so there should be (I hope) no chance of missing repositories.   Is there a reference list of "the minimum" repositories for OS 2006 somewhere?07:24
megabyte405restore cross-firmware-versions tends to break things anyway, but I can see how that would really get you out of luck if you needed to reflash same version07:24
Luriai now keep a copy of the privoxy deb on my internal sd card.07:25
megabyte405mattbmc: well, the minimum for regular stuff and the minimum for extra stuff are two different things - I'd say just click and isntall a few things from and you'll get all the repositories you need :D07:25
pupniki think i've finalized my on-screen button design - it will fit to the right of any 640x480 game.  Feel free to use it.
pupnikit's a little uneven but it's hardly noticeable on the 770 screen07:26
mattbmcmegabyte405:  That's just about what I did to get from the fresh OS install to the point where the Canola install failed....07:26
megabyte405mattbmc: is this the new 2007 n800 firmware?07:26
megabyte405there was something weird with canola wanting to be first or close to first07:26
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megabyte405and python was in there too somehow07:27
megabyte405search internettablettalk.com07:27
mattbmcmegabyte405:  I think I'm gonna give becomeroot a shot and see if I can use that to undo my other goof -- hopefully I can get root access back with out reinstalling the OS  ;)07:27
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megabyte405mattbmc: I'm sure you probably can07:27
Luriais there a way to go into single user mode?07:28
mattbmc(and for anyone who cares, I'm about ready to post the re-write to the Maemo Wiki page for HowDoiBecomeRoot2....mostly the same content, just better organized so it's clear what the steps are.)07:29
megabyte405Luria: no idea - you'd either have to try an init (which might be thwarted by the watchdog timers) or screw with the boot manager07:29
megabyte405mattbmc: cool - thanks for contributing07:29
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Luriainput probably wouldnt work anyway :-/07:30
mattbmc(welcome a proofreader - or several - to take a 2nd look for mistakes in the updated page)07:30
megabyte405Luria: good point - I wonder if a bt keyboard would work07:31
mattbmcWiki is probably the best internet invention since the web (ruined it) in my em!07:31
Luriawell, i have one. i just wonder when the bt stack is loaded.07:31
megabyte405no idea07:32
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Luriai actually cant wait to get the vm up and running. i havent had a reason to code in a while.07:33
megabyte405Luria: come hack on AbiWord :)07:33
Luriano, just need a simple openvpn frontend.07:34
Luriahavent worked on this platform before, so best to start easy07:34
megabyte405Luria: please do share - I want one too !:)07:34
mattbmcGot an error when I posted, but it does not seem to have affected the actual posting.   Enjoy:07:34
megabyte405Luria: right now the issue is building - we were running on maemo 207:34
Luriaoh right, i saw that. the power mgmt controls changed screwing the abi port07:35
Luriaor something07:35
Luriaok, so i have a silly question. you connect to a host via ssh. you want to download a remote file. is there a way to do it without starting a second local shell and scping? or can openssh spawn it from inside the session?07:38
Luriai saw some gui clients can do it, but i suspect they are just starting a second connection...07:39
mattbmcDepending on your circumstances you might be able to initiate the tranfer from the session you are in, but from the far side.     This probably isn't quite what you were looking for tho.07:40
Luriayeah, i thought back to the days of sz :-)07:41
mattbmczmodem or somesuch would still be an option if yout clients are compatible.  ;-)07:41
mattbmchavben't seen one of those since the early 90's tho07:42
Luriai see you were thinking back to sz too :-)07:42
mattbmcthe "good old days"   LOL07:42
Luriahell zmodem is modern07:42
mattbmc(no need to go there....already feel old without bringing X's and Y's into this!)07:43
mattbmc(no frogs needed either)07:43
Luriaoooh kermit.07:43
Lurianow i feel old.07:43
Luriaand im not that old.07:43
mattbmcI once had a Kermit client.   Once.07:43
Luriaremember rip clients?07:44
mattbmcnot sure I knew that one...source?07:44
Luriagraphical bbs system07:45
Luriapopped up in 93 or so07:46
Luriai think it stayed big on mac for a while07:46
Luriawow. qmodem doesnt have a wikipedia page.07:48
mattbmcWow....I get it, but I don't think I ever ran into 93 I was already doing dial up internet instead of BBS's.07:49
mattbmcWish I would have known tho....JPG's we SOO SLOOOOOW back then!   ;-)07:49
mattbmcQmodem was terminal software for the PC vs a transfer protocol tho, wasn't it?    Seems I remember using that on a friends 286.  :)07:50
Luria1993, i started doing slip or similar over a borrowed dialup shell07:50
Luriaah, the ftp archives at wustl...07:50
Luriatoo much nostalgia07:50
Luriayeah, qmodem was great DOS terminal software07:51
mattbmcway cool.  :)  I actually managed to keep the same email address from the early 90's up until about 3 years ago when the company ( just seemed to dry up and blow away.07:51
Luriaqmodem had great xfer protocol support and a nice scripting language07:51
mattbmcWUSTL and UMICH.....07:51
mattbmcbeing an Atari aficianado UMICH was my home away from home. ;-)07:52
Luriamatt: that is very impressive.07:52
mattbmcWUST was great for everything else07:52
Luriaah, by those days i was on a hand me down pc/at07:52
mattbmcI was always a this:07:52
mattbmc"Great DOS terminal software"...No such thing!07:53
Luriaand yet, it is so.07:53
mattbmcI do miss the BBS days....8-bit computers were great.07:54
Luriait was funny. my school had a copy of pcboard that was unused. so when hayes came out with 28.8 V.FC modems, i made a deal with the school sysadmin...07:54
Luriai would run a copy of pcboard on the spare phone line at home07:54
Luriauntil hayes called to check07:54
mattbmcyou had it made!07:54
Luriaand thus qualify for the sysop discount07:55
Luriafor two modems, one for me, one for the school07:55
Luriafor the discounted price of $28807:55
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Luriathe really cool thing was the uart on steriods ISA card hayes made to go with the modem07:56
mattbmcthe 16556 or somethng like that?07:56
mattbmc(man....*really* gong back on that!!!)07:56
Luriathe esp card07:57
Luriawell, it was a 16550a, iirc, but with a way out of spec buffer07:57
Luriai remember that they were spec'ed to do 921k over local serial, which was insane for the day07:59
Luriaand since we were ordering two of everything...07:59
mattbmcWow...great link!08:00
Luriaso we had to try it...08:00
mattbmcyeah,no doubt08:00
Luriawe got like 500k08:00
mattbmcvery interesting times....I was working at CompuServe during the 28.8 revolultion....they had a bg partnership with US Robotics (think there ended up being some insider trading involved) for the chips and built all their own modem boards....pretty sure they were the first (and prolly only for a little while) quad 28.8 modem boards in existence.08:00
mattbmcthat's crazy!08:01
Lurialater on, hayes kept good to their word and sent us rom upgrade chips for proper v.34 - with a new faceplate to reflect the new spec.08:01
mattbmcThey also built all their own X.25 routers for their network......they had X.25 links running at 2mb/s!!08:01
Luriathat was a fun time08:01
mattbmcv.34 was 28.8 or 33.6?08:02
Luriai went from 2400baud to the fastest modem around08:02
mattbmck, right08:02
Luriav.fc was hayes' "draft" spec08:02
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Luriai hope i still have that thing somewhere08:03
mattbmcI did make the interim jumps from 300 to 1200 to 2400 to 14.4 to 28.8....never higher until I bought my first Mac.   Came with 33.6.    Then cable modems came out a few years later.08:03
mattbmcthat really was a pretty amazing modem to be able to pull those speeds08:03
Luriahayes modems were great... i hope i still have it... the red leds and chrome and black finish...08:04
Luriathey were so solid.08:04
mattbmcremember seeing those in the computer mag's of the day and LUSTING for one.....but their prices were purely corporate.08:04
Lurianever did 33.608:04
Luriayeah, i saved to get that08:04
Luriawin modems depressed me.08:06
mattbmcyou, me and A LOT of people08:06
Luriathat was the end08:06
Luriaterminal software sucks on guis08:07
mattbmcdefinitely never the same since...08:10
mattbmcI'll grant modern copmuters all the 'cool' stuff they do.....but my Atari 800 had an aweful lot going for it.   Almost instant-on.....never crashed....BASIC built in....etc08:11
mattbmcLoved that thing08:11
Luriaexpectations were different, tho. i remember how my IIc was portable because it had a swing out handle08:12
Luriaand the mainboard and keyboard were in one unit08:12
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Luriasee what happens when you mention zmodem!08:16
mattbmcI'm missing something with this becomeroot installer.....the Homepage does have an installer file, but it just opens as a text page.   I save the *.install file and ran it from File Manager and I get "Operation Failed" from App Manager08:16 doubt08:16
mattbmcmy neighbor had a IIc....never really had a chance to get close to it or use it tho08:17
mattbmcloved the all about it in Compute and Byte08:17
Luriaim still unsure as to how the nokias handle filetype definitions08:19
Luriai would tell you to dl the debs directly and run dpkg, but if you could, well08:20
Luriayou wouldnt be in this situation08:21
LuriaI dunno. I think I would have liked it better if I were able to take it apart.08:22
Luriai loved pulling apart my 28608:22
Luriawow. this is a lot of nostalgia for one day. earlier i ended up talking about my matrox m3d  card (cause of the powervr chip)08:24
Luriai think its the irc effect - i havent used irc for more than 10 minutes since the late 90s08:25
Luriaso there you go08:25
mattbmclol.....definitely....never was a big user, but this happens!08:25
Luriaits to be expected with these devices08:26
mattbmcway past my bedtime now anyway....may have to just re-flash this thing with a new OS and stop wasting time08:26
Luriai hope they are profitable enough to make an n90008:26
Luriayeah, reflash already :-)08:26
mattbmc:)  indeed...08:29
mattbmcI'm more tempted every day to unload for an 800.....08:30
mattbmc...gonna try to give this at least a few months first tho....08:30
Luriai just bought my n800 mid june08:31
Luriai thought about the n770 for a minute cause its so cheap, but08:31
Luriathere were too many deal breakers08:31
mattbmc...99% of the reviews out there make it sounds worse than it really is.08:32
Luriain the house, i dont think theres too much difference08:32
mattbmcOS 2005 must have been pretty bad....definitely had key features missing08:32
Luriabut as ive begun to use the n800 as a laptop replacement08:32
Luriaim glad for the extra storage08:33
Luriaplus the sd interface08:33
mattbmcthat's one of the main attractors for me....dual SD08:33
Presence_I have no complaint on the 77008:33
Presence_flash and mem are a it small08:33
Presence_proc hasnt been bad for me08:33
Presence_but for $139...08:33
Luriafair enough08:33
Lurianot begrudging anyone their choices08:34
mattbmcfor a laptop relacement having 2 apps open would be quite limiting....among the other factors08:34
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Luriaand if you are using the n770 to read webpages on the couch, the n800 doesnt really have anything to offer08:34
mattbmcsame beautiful screen08:35
Presence_Im good with it08:35
Luriatrue enough08:35
Presence_I wish it had sd instead of mmc though08:35
mattbmc(even the iPhone users at work are pretty impressed with the screen on my 770)08:35
LuriaPresence_, that very thing saved me tonight08:35
mattbmcMy 2GB MMCmobile cards are supposed to be getting her early next week....maybe tomorrow if I'm luckyu08:36
Presence_I ordered one08:36
Luriamattbmc: thats cause you didnt show them the screen outside :-)08:36
Presence_but I have to reorder now08:36
Presence_"cant be shipped to your address"08:36
mattbmcNot sure I've had mine out in the sun, now that you mention it...08:37
Presence_Im thinking about using the mmc as the primary os08:37
Luriatake the n800, ruggedize and waterproof it, give it a useful camera, and mesh/wimax... im done.08:38
Luriaoh, and transflective screen08:38
Luriahuh. who knew - from wikipedia:Hayes originally had big plans for the form factor, referring to it as the Hayes Stack and intending to release a range of products that could be stacked beside the computer. In the end, the only non-modem device to be added to the line was the Hayes Stack Chronograph, an external real-time clock whose sales were apparently dismal. Early advertising referred to the Smartmodem as the "Ha08:41
Luriayes Stack Smartmodem", but this naming convention was dropped a short time later.08:41
Luriaa hayes chronograph. time to ebay...08:42
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mattbmcAlright folks...signing off for the night.   My pleasure chatting and being chatted up!!   Luria:   great reminiscing!!08:42
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mattbmcMust sleep.08:42
Luriatake care08:42
mattbmcwow...great photo/link!08:43
Luriait's beautiful. i'd never heard of it.08:43
Luriaanyway, g'night.08:43
mattbmcHayes may have turned into a Belkin if they had a few more years before the industry ate them...08:44
mattbmcYes, g'night!   ...and goodluck!08:44
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pupnikLuria: yeah a low power b/w screen for sunlight would be great09:40
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dubdibdubhello there...10:30
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dubdibdubi have two urgent questions....10:31
dubdibdubhow can i deactivate the wlan-adapter and the bluetooth adapter of the n800 via ssh (set offline mode??)10:31
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dubdibduband how do i get the batterystate and charging informations via cmdline??10:32
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dubdibdubdoesn't anyone know that??10:35
dubdibdubhelp... :(10:35
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tigertask on the mailing list and search the archives first?10:37
tigertits holiday season here in the office, thus nobody but crazy people like me are at work10:38
tigertand people are packing for guadec etc10:38
dubdibdubi threw the whole osso stuff out - so i need a real basic method to gain information about the battery...10:39
dubdibdubbut i can't find a battery device or something simmilar10:39
dubdibdubcannot find anything on google, the #maemo-archive and :(10:40
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zuhThe battery state isn't directly exposed, it's handled by the propriatry parts. There's a dbus signal for it normally, see
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mk8Hi to all10:44
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mk8A little question, I want to get the value insert in a FindToolbar but I not find the API to call, can anyone help me please?10:53
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inzmk8, I'm guessing the "prefix" property is what you're looking for10:58
janitigert: are you goining to guadec ?11:00
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Gathajanice, I succeeded in wrecking my svn repository with newer svn version outside scratchbox11:01
janiGathaja: whole repository ? i've done the same but only with local data ..11:01
dubdibdubzuh: who generates the dbus messages??11:01
janisvn in sb is just a tad bit too old =)11:02
mk8thanks inz11:02
inzdbudibdub, bme-dbus-proxy11:02
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Gathajawell when I try to commit it gives "Unable to open an ra_local session to URL" "Program version 4.2 doesn't match environment version"11:03
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GathajaI think it still works from outside11:04
janiGathaja: well, it could be only your local checkout ..11:04
janiso, copy all the changed files to safe, remove the checkout, do new checkout and copy the changed files over the new checkout ..11:05
janii had the same error if i remember correctly..11:05
janiusing newer svn client just changes some files inside .svn folder and older version doesnt cope with those.11:06
Gathajagives the same error11:08
janiyou did rm -rf for the directory and didnt include the .svn subfolders when copying over the changes ?11:10
Gathajait gives the error when I try to checkout11:10
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dubdibdubinz: and who gives the powermessages to the bme-dbus-proxy?11:11
janiok, it could be that you need to remove ~/.subversion folder too ..11:12
Gathajai'll try :)11:12
janirename it first so you dont loose anything..11:12
AD-N770good morning11:13
Gathajajani: won't help11:14
janisounds pretty weird..11:15
Gathajamaybe I just create a new rep, old stuff is still okay if I use the repository outside scratchbox11:15
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janijust to be safe, you did everything i suggested inside scratchbox ?11:17
Gathajayes.. :)11:17
dubdibdubsuihkulokki: and who is bme??11:17
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janihehe ok. =)11:18
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tigertjani: affirmative11:20
dubdibdubinz: where do i get the sourcecode to bme??11:21
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dubdibdubalready found:11:21
dubdibdubNokia-N800-10:/# bme -V11:21
dubdibdubBattery Management Entity (BME), version
dubdibdubCopyright (c) 2003-2006 Nokia Corporation. All rights reserved.11:21
inzdubdibdub, you don't11:21
inzdubdibdub, see for some info on battery level reading, skipping bme11:23
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janidubdibdub: you could use strace to see what bme does to query the battery state ..11:23
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suihkulokkidubdibdub: unfortunatly since the "ooh, lithium-ion batteries can explode" scaremongering companies are quite relucant to let people tamper with battery charging code11:29
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alteregoIt came! Despite the mail strike I've now got a shiny new N800! ^_^12:03
alteregoIt's so pretty!12:04
gla55_your...   precious?12:04
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bilboedslomo, about to try your new patches12:11
slomobilboed: cool... but probably the wrong channel for this :)12:12
bilboedslomo, true :)12:12
* bilboed bows apologetically to the rest of the channel for this12:12
alteregoIt wont connect to my router .. :(12:13
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alteregoI think because it is hidden.12:13
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V-I-PWirtschaftsb├╝cher Inhaltsangaben auf und Wirtschaftsb├╝cher Zusammenfassungen13:08
V-I-Pups, wrong window13:08
suihkulokkiIch also haben ein panzerwagen in mein leferhosen13:09
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V-I-P"<suihkulokki> Ich also haben ein panzerwagen in mein leferhosen" lol, whats that ?13:30
floriangood morning13:31
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lardmanDoes anyone have a list of Java bytecode to actual numerical byte values?13:33
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lardmanFor example is 0x00 a valid value for a Java bytecode?13:40
lardmansuihkulokki: Thanks. I saw that, but it just seems to give the mnemonics for the instructions, rather than the actual values of the mnemonics13:42
inzlardman, ?13:44
lardmaninz: Great, thanks13:46
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X-FadeI themed the mailinglist archives. If someone notices some rendering bugs, please tell me :)14:19
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Fatalworks fine with no style selected, so I'm happy :)14:24
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X-FadeFatal: Yeah, just pure css. So that should work too..14:25
lardmanoops is broken14:33
lardmanParse error: syntax error, unexpected '<' in /var/cache/midgard/midgard/7-49-31-0.php on line 13814:34
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X-Fadelardman: Yep, should be fixed soon :)14:42
lardmanX-Fade: Okay14:42
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hjlgckis it possible to do contextual ui easily with hildon?16:30
alteregoIt's really not that much different to GTK hjlgck16:34
hjlgckwas hoping for an interface that isn't the usual ugly gtk or qt interface16:37
hjlgcki've played too many games and was hoping to do a ui like many games16:37
* alterego_N800 thinks maemo is pretty16:38
hjlgckyeah, the normal file, edit tools preference dialog16:38
hjlgcki was hoping to make it prettier16:39
hjlgckrunning e17 on my desktop16:39
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hjlgcksorry for being slow to respond, typing from my n80016:40
OgMacielmorning all!16:40
disqkalterego_N800: n800? grats!16:40
alterego_N800:) yeah arrived this morning.16:41
alterego_N800Despite the postal strike. I'm so happy XD16:42
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X-Fadealterego_N800: So, when can I have my video out please :D17:00
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maddler/wg 2217:24
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GrumpyOldManany one get a 770 from woot17:45
Tu13esi did17:46
Tu13esbut sold it and got an n80017:46
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jpcasslooks like my n770 has seriously crashed :-(17:53
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alterego_N800Hmm. l can't seem to  find the program to sort the application menu. Anyone help?17:55
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GrumpyOldManwsod here. trying to get a woot receipt nokia will honor. ( need serial )17:56
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keesjneed "break out" hardware ,jtag serial , usb-host17:57
keesjneed money17:57
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Tu13esalterego_N800: Control Panel > Navigation18:00
alterego_N800Nice thanks :)18:01
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keesjdid somebod here every looked at wireless usb?18:03
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jga23how can I tell from the scratchbox what version of bora I'm running?18:06
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`0660jga23, check /etc/apt/sources.list18:08
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jga23I just ran a apt-get dist-upgrade but my sources.list still says 3.018:09
`0660apt-get dist-upgrade doesn't upgrade your sources.list18:11
jga23so do I do that manually?18:11
`0660follow the instructions at
jga23k, and I need to do it on both x86 and armel?18:12
`0660actually the instructions advice you to do it for both of them18:13
jga23if I'm just doing some python apps, do I need to do both x86 and armel?18:14
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melmothjga23, theoretically no18:15
melmothbut strangely enough my python package are not noarch18:16
jpcassi just reflashed but still not good ;-(  - i head startup sound, but screen is blank white, now two vertical lines - anyone seen this on their 770?18:16
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melmothso you may want the armel target as well , just in case you dont want to have to invetsigate how ot make noarch debs18:16
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jga23ok, thanks18:17
jga23so after the dist-upgrade, I should change my sources.list to 3.2 right/18:17
melmothi have never been bold enough to attempt a dist-upgrade in maemo18:19
melmothit s written 'not supported' on the can.18:19
melmothand i m ...lazy :)18:19
jga23oh, this is in scratchbox18:19
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melmothoh, yeah, i made a dist upgrade from 3.0 to 3.118:21
melmothis it ready for 3.2 ?18:21
melmothcarp, just when i have to go on holiday :)18:21
jga23I don't think 3.2 is a very big update18:21
melmothi only have 'bora' mentionnin in my sources.list18:22
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alterego_N800I've been using this thing all day and the battery is still going.18:27
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jga23anybody tried synergy on maemo?18:34
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keesjjga23: a while ago yes,18:41
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keesjand now it really should be fun, I have seen the syngery ui come by on the garage page, and also a "simple script to show the mouse"18:42
jga23nice, I'll have to give it a shot18:44
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jpcasshmm... looking on internet seems like my 770 has got "white screen of death" - this is terminal ;-(18:58
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TimRikermy n800 just messed up it's display too. no scrollbars, can't see what I've selected, etc. it that the "white screen of death" ? or is there a more messed up version?19:01
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suihkulokkijpcass: yeah, you need to send it for repair :|19:03
||cwWSOD is when you turn it on and it is just white, nothing else19:03
lardmanAny ideas on the cause of an error like this?: ./test_jazelle: ./test_jazelle: 1: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")19:03
suihkulokkiTimRiker: no, you probably have a messed up theme or other software issue19:03
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TimRikersuihkulokki: any known fix? changing themes back and forth did not do it.19:04
TimRiker||cw: ah. not been that bad off yet. though my n800 I sent back on RMA 6 weeks ago still has not come back nor have I heard any word on it.19:05
suihkulokkiTimRiker: no idea19:06
TimRikernice service level from Nokia. brand new defective unit sent back for repair (which I had to pay for) and they don't so much as email me an update.19:06
TimRiker6 weeks and counting. it's kinda ridiculous.19:06
lardmanAre return values from a binary mapped to some text string depending on their value? If so, what does the mapping?19:06
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lardmanhmm, I wonder how an error value that looks more applicable to a script could be returned from an ELF binary?19:12
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jpcasssuihkulokki: thanks I feared so.  do you think they will be good about repairing it?  I bought it on ebay... ;-(19:33
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jpcassTimRiker: I think WSOD is known for 770, I didnt read anything about it affecting 800, its caused by failure in the LCD controller.19:38
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Tu13eswhat's the deal with this "Red Pill" mode?19:49
lardmanTu13es: You can see 'system' packages19:53
Tu13esdo i have any reason to enable it?19:53
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alterego_N800This is the first time I've listened to the radio in years.20:09
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Mikhowould somebody have a ready-made solution to making STL containers (Queue in my case) thread-safe?20:14
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* k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back.20:20
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Mikho... it seems there are many ways to solve the problem, without any being clearly the best20:24
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kenderkeesj, are you there?21:08
kenderhey schmofarz21:09
schmofarzim having serious problems to install other than the standard packages21:09
schmofarzon n77021:09
schmofarzfor instance cgoban21:10
schmofarzand i cannot find basic tools like telnet21:10
schmofarzwhere i can get the right sources.lists entries?21:11
schmofarzfor this?21:11
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boobeehi, anyone knows where i can find libmysqlclient12 built for 770? 10x21:44
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Luriaanyone using their IT with cingular edge?21:48
Luriai think i finally found a reason to get a new phone21:49
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boobeerenatofilho_ that's 1.5 unfortunately...21:56
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boobeerenatofilho_ do you have the old libmysqlclient12 package still around maybe? sorry for insisting...22:12
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boobeei'm trying to install plutohome orbiter on 770 and this package is missing, unavailable on garage too22:17
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GrumpyOldMandid you guys see the pics of the rumored 800 update with keyboard ?22:56
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zyxulnagayou have a url?23:05
Luriait was on engaget23:06
GrumpyOldMani posted the link i found on digg ->
GrumpyOldManreally sexy looking23:08
GrumpyOldManwish my 770 didn't wsod after a week of use.23:08
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GrumpyOldMananyone on pownce ?23:14
Drakesondoes n800 have accelerometers?23:14
LuriaDrakeson, i dont believe so, nor is it in the omap spec, afaik23:17
Drakesonwhat is omap spec?23:19
Luriaomap (specificially the 2420) is the SoC which the n800 is built around23:21
GrumpyOldMananyone have any numbers on how prevelent 770 wsod is ?23:23
Luriaof course, that doesnt mean it cant be added on, but ive never heard anyone even speculate about it, including those brave souls who diassembled their tablets23:24
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LuriaDrakeson: no23:24
Luriaanyone know if there is a pen gestures library?23:25
Luriapython would be nice, but whatever23:25
DrakesonLuria: I need to get a few devices with open source platform. I am looking into n800+maemo and openmoko now.23:26
LuriaDrakeson - interesting stuff23:27
Drakesonit seems that n800 is much more stable than openmoko's devices, but I need accelerometers and they have planned it23:27
GrumpyOldMansee if anyone is makining a accelerometer sd card ?23:27
Luriai think the usb approach is more useful23:28
GrumpyOldManuse a wiimote ?23:28
Luriawiimote is a major hassle.23:28
Drakesonit (openmoko's next device) will not be released soon though, so it helps me if I know if accelerometers are planned in a future release for n800(or next)23:28
GrumpyOldManyeah but its fun for wiisaber and well for the wii.23:29
Luriavery little data about future internet tablets23:29
Drakesoniphone could be a good choice if it would had an open platform, and would be available here23:29
Luriaa hacker buddy and i bought our n800s at the same time, and proceeded to play with them 'til 5am the next morning...23:29
Luriahe brought his wiimote along23:30
Luriabest he could do was pairing and *maybe* button presses, iirc23:30
LuriaDrakeson, the n800 would be a better choice, if it had an accelerometer :-)23:30
Drakesonyeah, I don't think wii could do any good for me23:30
Luriawhat i mean is, i would expect an open accelerometer hack before an open iphone.23:31
suihkulokkiwiimote works very well in linux, so it should not be hard to use with n80023:31
Luriaman, i need to get me one of those wiimotes.23:32
GrumpyOldManworks great in osx too.23:32
Luriaerr, now that there are some people here, is anyone using the n800 with cingular?23:32
suihkulokkialternatively you can use the camera for motion detection,  but that's quite low quality23:32
GrumpyOldManLuria: i was using my 770 with cingular/att23:33
Drakesonsuihkulokki: sorry, I am confused. How do you use a wiimote in linux? do you install linux on nintendo wii?23:33
GrumpyOldManhad to change isp.cingular.... to wap.cingular...23:33
suihkulokkiDrakeson: wiimote is a bluetooth device23:33
GrumpyOldManwiimote is bluetooth.23:33
LuriaGrumpyOldMan: yeah, i just tried it out over my v551 flashed for edge23:33
Drakesoni see.23:33
Luriait was nasty slow23:34
Luriai was wondering if you were using a data plan23:34
GrumpyOldManLuria: i used my se s710a23:34
GrumpyOldManhave $19 unlimited data plan.23:34
Luriawhat is it called? i was doing this to figure out whether it works before adding services to my plan23:35
GrumpyOldManspeed as of last year was only 80kps before iphone lauch it was just over 200kps. after iphone launch speed vary as to how many crazy iphone ppl are around.23:35
trevarthanGrumpyOldMan: I dunno. Looks a lot less polished than the current n800...23:35
GrumpyOldManissue with edge is the suck ass latency.23:35
Luriai was getting 14k on a class 4 edge phone in manhattan.23:35
GrumpyOldManI think the current n800 is ugly looking. I like the look of the 770 more.23:35
GrumpyOldManLuria: jesus... the iphone ratio in manhattan has to be NUTS.23:36
Luriayeah, im glad i got an n800, but the 770 is much nicer looking23:36
trevarthanhuh. I think it's pretty attractive. I just wish the dpad was a little nicer.23:36
Luriayeah, the downside to having a major flagship store23:36
GrumpyOldManI couldn't resist $129... but i only got to play with ir for a week.23:36
Luriathe upside is an open wifi spot on 59th and 5th :-)23:37
GrumpyOldManI need to pay a pilgrimage there one of these days.23:37
Luriago late at night, preferably drunk :-)23:37
Luria3am is a good time23:38
Luriafar too crowded otherwise23:38
pupnikI'd be curious how many fps the N800 gets with snes9x23:38
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pupniksay, chrono trigger or summat23:38
trevarthanme too.23:38
GrumpyOldManI'll just have to camp out at the local store for leopard launch... I was first in line at the tiger launch... course i kind of cheated... I had a female geek friend of mine go earlier... and she switched places with me... so she was stuck being #223:39
Luriaactually, i did go to the 5th ave store after 3am once.... i was sober, but my friend was a bit high. she ended up buying an imac, but i dont think there was a causal relationship.23:39
pupniktrevarthan: you don't have a n800?23:39
trevarthanno, I do.23:39
GrumpyOldMantyping on my mbp... since my nokia 770 display is useless :(23:39
trevarthandidn't know snes9x was prepackaged for it though... is it?23:39
Luriai cant believe some of the nokia support decisions.23:40
pupnikNot packaged, it's a work in progress...
GrumpyOldManLuria: like ?23:41
Luriai went to the nokia flagship store on 57th st as a last resort to buy a replacement headset23:41
pupnikBut DrPocketSNES is much faster, and that requires more work to port23:41
trevarthanI wonder how much money the n800 makes for nokia. They keep working on it, so it can't be that bad, but it seems like a highly hacker oriented device.23:41
Luriathey had none for sale - though they were kind enough to give me an out of box spare23:41
Luriai offered to pay even, but they wouldnt take my money23:41
trevarthanpupnik: I've got some limited experience hacking snes9x for mythgame a while back.23:41
Luriabut here's the thing -23:42
Luriathey didnt have it in their system. they called their local  support store, they didnt have it either.23:42
Lurian800 case? not in their system23:42
Luriai dont get it23:43
pupniktrevarthan: well the internal fps counter seems to be inaccurate on this build on n800.  I do see 30fps on some demos and simple games - ones that make limited use of PPU features...
trevarthanpupnik: 1.) why is DrPocketSNES more work? 2.) why is it faster?23:44
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Luriahuh. there is a baretta flagship store in manhattan. who knew?23:45
Luriai wonder who shops there?23:46
pupniktrevarthan: 1) it's built for the gp2x and uses some gp2x libs and the framebuffer 2) there are various engines for different SNES components - DrPocketSnes uses the fastest core components available, and is slightly less accurate/compatible than snes9x23:46
trevarthanyeah, I saw that23:46
trevarthanso.... can you run mario on the 770? is it playable?23:47
pupnikhaven't tried mario - get about 5 fps on Chrono without sound23:47
trevarthanpupnik: I see...
Luriai wish they had added some extra buttons to the n80023:50
Lurialike *anything* on the right side23:50
* pupnik heartily agrees23:50
Luriabt gamepads seem to be a no go after 30 min of google searching, but i would love to be wrong23:51
trevarthanI think the wiimote works.23:51
pupnikAnything BT means you need to set the nokia on a table or lap-board.  When that is avaialbe, i just use the BT keyboard for gaming23:51
trevarthangamepads are more fun, IMO.23:52
Luriapupnik, almost true - but not if you made it into a clip on system23:52
trevarthanbesides, you could always mount the n800 on a headrest in the car and use the wiimote for remote control and gaming.23:53
trevarthanmy son would love that during long trips. :)23:53
trevarthanI might buy a wiimote and integrate it with Kagu sometime. that would be pretty cool for the car.23:54
Lurialike so23:54
tigertI think keeping the n800 in a table is kinda an insult to the whole idea of the device :)23:54
Luriatrevarthan - punch up the volume?23:54
trevarthanLuria: what?23:55
Luriaincrease volume play back by punching with the wiimote :-)23:55
Luriaerr playback volume. beware of using cut and paste to edit yourself :-/23:56
trevarthanoh yeah. I hadn't thought about the accelerometer. :) That would be cool! :)23:56
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trevarthanshoot. I might buy a wiimote for a robotics project. Gut it and use the accelerometer via bluetooth.23:57
Luriai dont know why you would build it where there are wiimotes to break apart, but23:58
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Luriait is kinda small tho23:58
trevarthanyeah, sparkfun makes one too. But the wiimote would be easier, I think.23:58
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dragorntrevarthan: I was just going to say sparkfun23:58
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