IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2007-07-11

pupnikoh nm00:00
alteregodisq, you have to put the interface down first.00:00
disqno but you could install wireless-tools00:00
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disqah, i did it from remote xterm00:00
alteregoNot a good idea if you're ssh'ing via wireless ;)00:00
alteregoCould you try it and confirm it's working by looking at your router or something.00:01
disqhang on00:02
Tu13esare the n770 and n800 screens the same size?00:03
disqi got network connection error trying to connect from the ui00:04
disqwill try a reboot00:04
disqTu13es: yeah00:04
disqthough they're not the same model00:04
Tu13esdisq: thanks00:04
Tu13esyeah, just wanted to make sure I could use a n800 screen protector on an n77000:05
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nate12o6are there any mplayer applets out there?  i am looking for one similar to the internet radio applet but uses mplayer to play the tunes00:06
disqalterego: after rebooting it didn't take, got original mac00:07
alteregoWell, that's predictable :)00:07
alteregoWhat's this "network connection error" you're talking about?00:08
disqone could try connecting with wireless-tools after changing the mac, but i got an error installing that too.00:08
disqalso i don't really know how to use iwconfig and friends.00:08
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alteregoDoes your AP use encryption or MAC filtering?00:08
disqwpa, no mac filtering00:08
alteregoOh well ..00:09
* alterego holds breathe ..00:09
alteregoI think I'll get one anyway.00:09
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disqcould now install wireless-tools btw, if you know how to connect00:09
neurocytealterego, I can try bring up wlan0 with wirless tools if you want00:09
alteregoiwlist wlan0 scanning00:09
alteregoThat will show a list of AP's00:10
alteregothen do 'iwconfig wlan0 essid 'ESSID'' to select the access point.00:10
alteregoNot sure about encryption unfortunately.00:10
alteregoYou need to use wpa_supplicant00:10
disqthat's too much work :)00:11
alteregoWell, just running the scan after changing the MAC would be good for me :)00:11
disqah, ok then00:11
alteregoMaybe you could run a sniffer on your desktop and see what MAC's are out there ;)00:12
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neurocytescan works fine00:12
alteregoneurocyte, after setting the MAC address?00:12
pupnikit's amazing to me how much the n770 still kicks butt00:12
alteregoWell, that certainly sounds promising.00:12
disqyeah it worked00:12
alteregoThe 770 looks prettier to in my opinion.00:12
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disqi just played with my old 770 a few minutes and it's not as slow as i remember it being00:13
pupniki suppose the hardcore pda-style users have some valid complaints about the software, but the community hasn't exactly delivered00:14
alteregoAll I need is a mobile console.00:14
alteregoWith wifi.00:14
alteregoAnd a web browser.00:14
disqthough the screen is defective in my 770, no service here and i don't use it anyway so i don't really mind. the middle section lost sensitivity (still works if you stab the stylus at it)00:15
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alteregoKeep on doing that and you'll end up needing a hammer ;)00:16
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pumpkingodI have a question about maemo00:16
pumpkingodI was wondering if it was possible to put build tools (gcc etc.) directly on the device00:16
pumpkingodand build simple apps there00:17
alteregoOf course :)00:17
pumpkingodI thought it hsould be00:17
ericzwouldn't gcc be slow?00:17
pumpkingodyeah, but I don't mind00:17
pumpkingodhow would I go about it?00:18
alteregoIs maemo compatible with debian stable?00:18
pumpkingodI've tried apt-getting the gcc 3.4 package00:18
pumpkingodbut it says it's already there00:18
pumpkingodcan't find any of its binaries though00:18
alteregoThat's what you need.00:18
disqwould be really slow, but it would work00:18
Jaffaalterego: not binary compatible, as it uses the armel EABI00:18
pumpkingodalterego: my apt-get isn't finding it00:19
alteregoSearch the repo for gcc ?00:19
Jaffamegabyte405: You could pick up an Acorn RiscPC (90s ARM desktop) for less than $100 on eBay. Or a brand new A9home or Iyonix shipped from the UK00:19
disqit's possible to use debian-armel packages tho, to some extent00:19
Jaffadisq: true00:19
pumpkingodalterego: I've tried installing the gcc-3.4-base package00:19
pumpkingodbut it claims it's already there00:19
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alteregoThat's because base doesn't contain gcc.00:20
alteregoJust libgcc I believe.00:20
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megabyte405Jaffa: :D  If there was a fast, linux-running modern one, and I had lots of extra cash, I would :)00:20
pumpkingodso hmm00:20
schmofarzi used mistral - it seems, that all needed packages are available, but during an apt-get run an ipaddress would not found. any idea, what wrong is?00:20
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pumpkingodso where would I look for build-essential for the n800?00:21
schmofarzyok, i mistyped in the chat only00:22
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schmofarzFailed to fetch  404 Not Found [IP: 80]00:23
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lardmananyone else noticed that you can't watch videos on the bbc website with the new opera?00:24
JaffaThe in-page Flash ones?00:25
TimRiker has no Packages.gz?00:25
lardmanJaffa: No, the realplayer ones00:25
lardmanJaffa: It may be that the BBC have changed their detection code on the page00:25
Jaffalardman: not tried. Hang on00:26
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lardmanUsed to get a page to choose between high/low speed & wmp and real, now the wmp/real choices are grayed out00:26
alteregopumpkingod, I don't really know. Look for a armel debian repository.00:26
neurocytedisq, I added an init script to load the ext3 module at boot (which works) but the card still isn't mounted automatically :(00:26
alteregoOther than that I can't really help you.00:26
pumpkingodok :) thanks for pointing me in the right direction00:26
disqneurocyte: erm, sorry i forgot to tell you to edit /etc/fstab00:27
Jaffalardman: yeah, ditto.00:27
disqthe ext2 line in mine looks like this: /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc2 ext2 defaults,errors=remount-ro,rw,noatime 0 000:27
lardmanJaffa: I'll have to try on my 770 and see if it was the BBc or something about the new browser00:28
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neurocytedisq, does it unmount it automatically when you plugin the usb?00:29
disqthe browser has a spoof.ini now, did it exist on the older firmware? anyone remember?00:29
TimRikeris skype working now? I can't get all the dependancies worked out.00:29
disqneurocyte: i rarely use the usb so don't really remember00:30
disqpossible it only umounts the vfat/fat32 partitions00:30
neurocyteI'll give it a try and find out00:31
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disqis it possible to disable the lifeguard reset from within the device? i don't have a non-virtual linux, and the virtual one won't detect the usb cable00:33
disqi once flashed the kernel using the kernel_flasher tool, it was cool00:33
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Jaffalardman|afk: yeah, just tried hacking around it: no joy.00:35
Jaffadisq: maybe try 0xFFFF on Windws?00:36
disqthere's an idea00:36
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TimRikercan you just apt-get dist-upgrade or do you need to reflash to get the new os release running?00:37
disqyou need to flash00:37
TimRikerah. that's my issue then.... :/00:38
disqupgrading via apt usually breaks it00:38
TimRikershame that..00:38
JaffaProper in-place upgrading's "planned"00:39
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disqJaffa: any idea if win32 build of 0xffff exists somewhere?00:50
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mattbmcHello to all!00:58
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lardmanJaffa: Same thing happens on the 770. Looks like changed their javascript01:01
mattbmcAnyone know if there's a way to change SMB Browser's default port?   Would like to route over an alt port (>1024) that's tunnelled via SSH.01:02
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mattbmcClobber me if there're some apropriate docs on this....but even mighty Google was short on suggestions.   (At least when impaired with my queries.)   ;-)01:04
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tigertman smb.conf?01:11
tigert       smb ports (G)01:11
tigert              Specifies which ports the server should listen on for SMB  traf‐01:11
tigert              fic.01:11
tigert              Default: smb ports = 445 13901:11
tigertin [global]01:11
tigertsorry, bad chars01:11
tigertbut smb ports = 2345601:11
tigertin [global] if I read correctly01:11
tigertsee the man page01:11
tigertno wait01:12
tigertI am totally confused :-)01:12
* tigert hangs his head in shame01:12
mattbmcall good01:12
mattbmcfor SMB Browser app tho?01:12
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tigertyou cannot ssh forward ports as root?01:13
tigertthen it could be the same ports01:13
mattbmcdon't have root access and would "prefer" not to have to...01:14
RadarSuper Mario Brothers Browser app? :)01:14
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mattbmcbut I take your point...if it don't work one way....   ;-)01:14
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RadarI guess that'd be a Bowser app actually01:14
mattbmc*clap* *clap* *clap* ..."Next!"01:15
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tigertmaybe mail the author?01:16
mattbmcmay have to...another option. :)01:16
tigertor do a sudo thingy01:17
tigertthat binds 139 or whatever the samba port is01:17
tigertbut, time to sleep01:18
tigertmust kick more ass tomorrow, so need the sleep :)01:18
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mattbmcGOOD LUCK!01:19
mattbmcwill check intothat suggestion01:19
mattbmcwhois tigert01:19
_Monkeyi think tigert is totally confused :-)01:19
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tigerti am? :)01:24
tigertI am better with pixels01:24
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lardmannight all01:27
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tigert-> &01:28
disqnight :)01:28
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ericzdisq, no maemoscrobbler for os 2006?01:35
disqthere's no libconic in os2006, i'll have to do the internet detection the old way01:36
disqwill take some time and courage :p01:36
ericzhaha, i dont have enough courage to flash 2007, so, you got the time? :P01:37
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disqericz: there's some time, currently no players support maemoscrobbler. (i sent in a patch for ukmp, and kagu patch is ready awaiting love)01:41
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tigerti am using the latest release without much problems01:51
tigert(just walked dogs, now the sleep :)01:51
disqtigert: is it normal for sardine to be missing some of the theme images? like arrows on the launch menu and such?01:51
disqokay :)01:52
disqgood night01:52
tigertthe app menu will get custom theming, but lucas is not done yet01:52
tigertits in plankton template, but the implementation is not done yet01:53
disqyeah, it was a really nice surprise to see plankton there in the theme selector01:53
tigertyea, plankton is the devel theme now :)01:54
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tigertstep 1 for world domination. muhahhah01:54
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tigertwe want to do icon themes too, but first the naming needs to be aligned with freedesktop spec01:55
tigertlots of work01:55
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alderanalderan Su  #maemo  Un Saluto a tutti01:59
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pupnik  from my favorite halcyon daze... The Orb - Pomme Fritz promo video - trippy juggling02:01
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ericz_does smbbrowser really work on the 770?02:46
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alteregoThat's odd Nokia say something about an AV 3.5m connector on the N800 ..02:47
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disqthere's no a/v connector02:58
disqthey did a tv connection in an expo, maybe somebody thought it was a/v. actually vnc was used02:59
alteregoWhat are you quibbles with it?03:01
alteregoI'd like it to use the debian repo but obviously that's not possible.03:01
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Tu13es_if using a memory card as swap space, can you not put files on the card?03:18
GeneralAntillesAnybody catch the engadget spyshots?03:21
GeneralAntillesI _really_ hope they didn't add a slideable keyboard.03:21
disqTu13es_: you can.03:22
Tu13es_my friend said it said she wasn't able to03:22
disqthe swap file only takes about 16 to 64 megs of space03:22
Tu13es_yeah, that's what I figured03:22
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Tu13es_it's a 1gb stick03:22
Tu13es_oh, can she not put files on while the n770 is booted?03:23
Tu13es_that's probably it03:23
disqbooted? via usb? not sure, maybe03:23
disqooh spy pics!03:23
GeneralAntillesI'm really hoping that wont be what it looks like.03:25
GeneralAntillesTalk about a usability downgrade.03:25
ericzooh qwerty though03:26
Tu13es_it's..a sidekick?03:27
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RadarI like the slideout keyboard03:29
ericzew, one of the comments suggests nokia drop maemo and go windows, what's he thinking03:29
Radaronly way to make it a umpc!03:30
disqi'm fine with the keyboard (as long as they keep vkb an option) but i don't like the d-pad position for one03:30
disqnot to mention there's no rocker key at the right side :P03:30
Radaryeah, the dpad needs to be on the regular part, or at least a jog wheel on the side03:30
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nomisericz: but, but, but, its THE INDUSTRY STANDARD!03:31
GeneralAntillesNo hardbuttons without the slider out?03:31
GeneralAntillesThat SUCKS03:31
disqtoo bad you can't see the top side of the device03:31
GeneralAntillesN800 should've had the buttons cloned onto the right side.03:31
nomisactually this device looks a lot like a very early prototype. The finish is way too bad.03:31
GeneralAntillesBe a great Gameboy replacement, then.03:31
disq(if it doesn't have full screen button and friends then i would assume it's not the n800 successor)03:32
nomisright now I'd tend to categorize it as a phone.03:32
pupnikIt does look pretty.  But it's totally wrong for gaming :(((03:32
nomis(not sure why, it just does not feel like an internet tablet)03:32
GeneralAntillesIt's an N-Series, anyway.03:32
* pupnik cries03:33
GeneralAntillesnomis: I agree.03:33
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ericzhaha, you can see the phone taking the picture of it in one of the reflections03:34
pupnikbut it's pretty good for thumb texting03:34
GeneralAntillesThumbboard onscreen is pretty good no the N80003:35
GeneralAntillesIt just doesn't like it when I try and type _too_ fast.03:35
GeneralAntillesTell me, is multitouch a hardware or software limitation on the N800?03:35
rhysthe touchscreen in general is slow compared the the palms03:35
nomisGeneralAntilles: probably hardware.03:35
rhysi cant write with the stylus like i can on the palm. my hand is faster than the n80003:36
GeneralAntillesThat's too bad.03:36
GeneralAntillesMultitouch for typing would be really nice.03:36
disqmultitouch screens work differently03:36
rhysi personally dont care about multitouch, i just wonder about the stylus. why is the software so slow in recognizing im touching it?03:37
GeneralAntillesDollars and cents wise, how expensive would it be for Nokia to integrate it into an IT device 1 or 2 generations down the road?03:37
Radarprobably will be that apple has patented multitouch03:38
nomisGeneralAntilles: no idea, but right now the multitouch stuff is afaik heavily patented by a german company, won't be cheap.03:38
pupnikwhat application do you want multitouch for?03:38
nomispupnik: gaming  :)03:39
rhyshow about we get stylus writing first...03:39
pupnik:/  come to think of it, you could probably do gaming pretty well with that keyboard+ dpad03:39
GeneralAntillesGaming and typing mostly.03:39
GeneralAntillesGaming would be perfect if Nokia cloned the buttons on the N800 and stuck another set on the right side.03:40
pupniki need tactile feedback for gaming buttons03:40
rhyswriting! what about writing!03:40
GeneralAntillesThe writing will never be as good as the Newton03:40
GeneralAntillesSo there's no point.03:40
pupnikwhy not?03:40
nomiswow, balda (the company supposedly working with apple on the multitouch thing) has the most non-descript site ever.03:40
GeneralAntillesDamnable patents.03:40
Radarthe keyboard would help from some scummvm games03:41
pupnikand all computer emus - C64, Atari, Amiga, DOSbox03:41
nomisI mean, wtf:
rhysI can write like i do on paper on the palm. i cant do it on the nokia. it reacts to slow to my hand writing.03:41
rhyswhy is that?03:42
pupniki am trying to imagine holding that with two hands and gaming - i think it could be possible -- right thumb on the j k l keys03:42
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pupnikrhys unoptimized software?  i have never tried writing03:42
pupnikmmm no i's terrible thumb positions.. :(03:43
rhystry it on anything. change the input to handwriting03:43
rhysits too damn slow03:43
pupniki never saw decent hwr so i dunno03:43
ericzyou have to write one letter at a time, it's almost faster to use the keyboard, isnt it?03:44
GeneralAntillesCheck out the Newton03:44
GeneralAntillesGreatest hwr EVER03:44
rhysGeneralAntilles, buddy of mine has a palm t3. works amazing. you can write on it like your writing on paper03:44
GeneralAntillesSame with the Newton03:45
GeneralAntillesBut the screen is bigger, so it's much more natural03:45
GeneralAntillesYou can write on the whole screen, too.03:45
GeneralAntillesI used my 2100 to take notes in class through all of highschool.03:45
Tu13es_can you transfer files to an n770 memory card while it's booted into USB mode or whatever it's called?03:45
pupnikwell you just plug-in the usb03:47
pupniknot boot to it03:47
Tu13es_she tried that and it said no because it's being used as swap memory03:47
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pupnikturn swap off first03:48
Tu13es_mm, that's pretty annoying03:48
Tu13es_esp since it takes like 5 minutes to make the swap file03:48
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pupniki don't use swap on 770.  and i avoid the evil websites03:49
Tu13es_it's pretty annoying only being able to have like 2 apps open ma03:50
pupnikI don't use my lawnmower to drive to the shopping center either. :P03:51
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mattbmcAnyone know if there's a way to change SMB Browser's default port?   Would like to route over an alt port (>1024) that's tunnelled via SSH.04:01
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ericzi can't even get smbbrowser to work! :P04:03
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mattbmcericz....basic functionalities are good for me04:11
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mattbmcsmbbrowser will connect up to FreeNAS CIFS sharing no prob....04:26
mattbmcericz:  do you have an X Terminal?04:30
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mattbmcCan you telnet any of the associated ports on the server, from the 770?04:35
ericzhrm,  well i was trying to do that "insmod ./cifs.ko" thing04:36
mattbmcwtf?   lol04:36
ericzbut now that i think about it, the firewall does only let me in :P04:36
mattbmcI'm not just spoke greek to me. ;-)04:36
ericzme being the desktop04:36
mattbmcforward the port or open it up then?04:37
ericzplaying with iptables now04:37
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ericzstill not working04:38
ericzi dont think i have 'smbfs' where do i get that04:38
ericztelnet works, but04:41
ericzsmbbrowser doesnt find anything04:41
mattbmcum....project page has a link in the Announcement/News page, but it comes with the Samba package as well04:44
mattbmc(may already be in your App Mgr)04:44
ericzi have04:45
ericz"samba", "smbbrowser", and "smbclient"04:45
ericzall installed04:45
mattbmcwhich ports you forwarding?04:45
ericznone, i just had to let the 770 have access to all ports on the server04:46
mattbmcsambafs should be there then....look at the package description for Samba and check tho04:46
ericzanything TCP anyway04:46
ericzoh, damn, "samba"s status is "Broken"04:46
ericzwonder why04:46
mattbmcthat's strange04:47
pupnik_TCP sounds like the 60s psychedelic that never achieved market success04:47
ericzTransmission Control Protocol :p04:48
mattbmcbetween that and sniffing ETHERnet, we should all be feelin good04:48
mattbmcnever seen a package "broken" before....does that mean uninstalling/reinstalling is out of the question?04:49
ericztried it, still broken04:50
ericzwhen installing it said it would take 2.9MB or something04:50
ericzit says it will free 6.9MB if i uninstall04:50
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NeoStrider_hello folks05:01
NeoStrider_im having a problem!05:01
NeoStrider_my sbox complain when installing SDK_ARMEL: cannot overwrite directory `/targets/SDK_ARMEL/usr/include/asm' with non-directory05:02
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yzf600hello again05:06
yzf600has anyone gotten Gnumeric installed on their 770?05:06
pupnik_hi NeoStrider_ i seem to remember this... i don't remember the right solution.  try renaming include/asm and see what gets installed onto it05:06
pupnik_you can move the include/asm_orig back to /asm later05:07
yzf600I found the packages, but they say "package architecture (arm) does not match system (armel)"05:07
NeoStrider_this inside or outside sbox?05:07
NeoStrider_yzf600, seems to be a Maemo 1.0 package05:07
pupnik_doesn't matter05:07
yzf600should I force the install?05:09
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NeoStrider_whats the package?05:10
yzf600Gnumeric - spreadsheet application05:11
NeoStrider_tried that too05:12
NeoStrider_i dont remember the outcome05:12
yzf600I really don't like forcing packages to install05:12
NeoStrider_770 or N800?05:12
yzf600I'm not ready to run 2007 (or bora It's called I think) on my 77005:15
NeoStrider_I will keep gregalle too05:15
NeoStrider_as a developer aiming for the 770, I must keep up with my huge and vast public ;-P05:15
yzf600NeoStrider_: Have you been able to setup scratchbox all the way and run the menu lanucher?05:18
yzf600I've got everything installed, but the menu launcher won't run for me.05:18
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NeoStrider_I've got it all running with SDK_PC05:18
NeoStrider_but Im still stumbling with that problem on SDK_ARMEL05:19
NeoStrider_im going to reboot05:19
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yzf600I get this error: Starting Maemo Launcher: maemo-launcherqemu: uncaught target signal 4 (Illegal instruction) - exiting05:21
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yzf600google search turns up nothing05:21
pupnik_what qemu cpu transparency do you have set up?05:21
pupnik_you could try setting up another sb armel target using a different qemu transparency version05:22
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NeoStrider_im back05:24
NeoStrider_gonna try again05:24
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yzf600pupnik_: ok, I'll try that05:26
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yzf600so what is the difference between arm and armel?05:26
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NeoStridermy xchat segfaulted before I could see any answer...05:28
pupnik_good deal05:29
NeoStriderim back in business!05:31
NeoStriderso is MaemoWizard!05:31
NeoStrider(and Angstron)05:31
pupnik_have you done anything with maemowizard since april?05:32
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NeoStridernot justifyng a release05:33
NeoStriderI just tweaked the icon stuff05:33
NeoStriderbut im planing a new review, shrinking the size of the template05:34
NeoStriderand now Im going to be able to test it against gregalle SDK05:34
NeoStrider(I was using mistral)05:34
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NeoStriderhey...its always good to see people remember your works ;-)05:34
mattbmcericz...I'm tapped for solutions on the package side...still learning the linux side myself05:36
mattbmcmaybe query google on debian generally instead of maemo or nokia (w/e)?05:36
mattbmcjust wanna reask:05:37
mattbmcAnyone know if you can select a custom destination port for SMB Browser?05:37
pupnik_NeoStrider: it helped me learn about maemo - thanks05:38
mattbmcI'mnew.   MaemoWizard = ??05:38
NeoStrider(im amazed to discover that...hehe)05:39
yzf600oh no05:39
NeoStridermattbmc: MaemoWizard is a silly script I made to create packages for SDL applications easier05:39
yzf600something has gone horribly wrong05:39
yzf600I went to uninstall the scratchbox packages from my host CPU05:39
yzf600well, the removal didn't remove /scratchbox05:40
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yzf600so I went in there to remove it myself05:40
yzf600I got some message about circular references and my filesystem was probably corrupt05:40
NeoStrideri did that once too05:40
yzf600so I whipped out the rm -rf on it and the hard disk goes to town05:41
NeoStriderthat becouse /scratchbox has some symlinks to your host fs05:41
NeoStriderI wasnt that ambicious ;-)05:41
yzf600thinking "there can't be that much stuff in there" I control-C the op05:41
yzf600but the symlinks would be deleted and not the location they point to05:41
yzf600unless they were hard links05:42
yzf600which I think might be the case as my /tmp dir on my host cpu is completely empty05:42
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yzf600damn it05:43
yzf600well, I hope I didn't fsck something up05:43
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yzf600ok, I'm off to logout and back on to see if my system still works.05:46
yzf600wish me luch05:46
NeoStrideryzf600...this is other machine , other than this you're using now, right?05:46
yzf600no, I've only got one machine05:46
NeoStridergood luck05:46
yzf600yea, I use it as my: web server, email server, audio/video server,05:47
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NeoStriderhope he comes back with a good system05:49
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* pupnik_ has 6 active machines including the 77005:51
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yzf600whew - I'm back05:52
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yzf600took a hard reboot to get here, though05:52
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yzf600My best guess is that the tmp link in the scratchbox was a hard link and I wiped all my tmp dirs and files05:52
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yzf600gnome is not happy when you do that05:52
NeoStriderbut your system is fully nominal?05:55
yzf600so far, so good05:59
NeoStriderand your sbox?06:01
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NeoStriderc ya fellows!06:14
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egsavageany known repository issues now? When I use the nokia install or do a apt-get update i'm getting errors06:14
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megabyte405make sure you don't have "extras" under Bora repository.maemo.org06:24
megabyte405egsavage: ^^06:24
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Abulafiahi all06:33
egsavagemegabyte405: is that the only issue right now?06:33
egsavagelet me look at the list - i forget now06:34
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Abulafiaim sorry if i missed something obvious in googling, but are there any IDEs for the n800 for perl or python?06:37
egsavagei had two entries with extras - one in the url, the other with extras listed along with free and non-free06:38
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megabyte405Abulafia: not that are hosted on it that I know of06:47
megabyte405any desktop app should be able to handle it, though06:47
megabyte405since perl and python are interpreted06:47
Abulafiai understand, i was just looking for something more than a shell or vim06:48
Abulafiai was just hoping for a hildon IDE06:48
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Pioare there any mirrors where you can download os updates faster than
febbhi all06:50
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Abulafiabtw, did anyone have downloading problems with skype? i kept getting "download failed"06:53
Abulafiain the end i downloaded everything by http and used dpkg06:54
Abulafia(i really hate the package manger)06:54
Abulafiaerr... manager06:54
Abulafiagah BT keyboard06:55
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asys3hi, anybody uses booting from mmc ?06:57
asys3i want to enlarge my rootfs to prevent me from running out of space while installing apps06:59
febbasys3: I did that when I had the N770 and after a while it developed some troubles due the life span of the mmc cards...07:02
asys3i installed with but ask myself if an enlargement of the roots still boots or causes problems?07:02
febbthat is the max number of write/read cycles each mmc card is rated for......07:03
asys3febb:no i've used it for a long time without a problem.07:03
febbcool then....   I tried several different cards... on several N770 (all company owned) and eventually most of them failed...07:04
asys3febb:the problem there is if you use flash as swap!!07:04
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febbused both, as swap and as rootfs extension.....07:04
asys3i think read/write cycle lifetime problems are somehow not real. i never had it even when swapping.07:06
febbi see... well, those are my 2 cents.  indeed had trouble with "over-using" the mmc cards.... haven't tried it on the N800 tough.07:08
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pupnik_isn't the internal flash the same technology?  i don't see how rootfs on mmc would be any problem07:14
pupnik_the most writing obviously is from swap07:15
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Abulafiain which case it would be better to use a replaceable card anyway :-)07:21
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jga23anybody have a tutorial on getting maemo scratchbox running on ubuntu?07:51
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Abulafiahavent tried it myself, on the todo list08:02
Abulafiaactually was going to use the vm image under windows08:03
jga23I have ubuntu on virtual pc, so I'm trying to install on that08:03
jga23last I heard vm doesn't work well on vista, so I'm going that route08:04
Abulafiadunno - dont use vista08:05
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Abulafiahave you tried converting the dev vm to virtual pc?08:08
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jga23sweet, thanks!08:09
jga23this vm isn't the version that came out a week ago is it?08:10
Abulafiai dunno08:11
Abulafialike i said, its on my todo list; havent done it yet08:11
jga23:) k08:12
Abulafiaif you do it, let me know how it works out08:14
Abulafiaits been a long time since ive written anything but i need a frontend for openvpn08:14
Abulafiaso im guessing im going to be doing it myself08:15
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ericzanyone know if the n800 works with google calendar?08:25
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cesmanericz: according to the post n internettablettalk, yes08:34
cesmanit will sync w/ GPE08:34
ericzcesman, ah, cool, thanks08:34
cesmanyou're welcome08:35
ericzwhat about the 770?08:35
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Abulafiais there a bora version of abiword?08:36
Abulafiaor alternatively, what are people using for wp on the n80008:38
Abulafia(please don't say vi :-)08:38
ericznano? :P08:39
Abulafiadamn you :-)08:39
Abulafiaits funny, im using my n800 right now, and i've fielded the usual questions, but twice ive been asked about word processing...08:40
Abulafiaand i didnt have an answer08:40
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Abulafiaactually, it was funny - someone else had an n800 at the cafe i'm sitting at... i explained to him he may want to look into changing his root password... his eyes kinda glazed over08:41
Abulafiabut in the end, he got it.08:42
ericz"like in a tree?"08:42
Abulafianah, i just say like "adminstrator" in windows08:42
Abulafiathat worked08:42
ericzsee, i'm not patient enough :( i'd make horrible tech support08:43
`0660is there a point in changing the root password if you don't have an ssh daemon installed?08:43
Abulafiacause down the line, he may do something that requires ssh (like syncing)08:44
Abulafiaand he wont know08:44
Abulafiadoes dropbear server run by default?08:44
ericzAbulafia, something about abiword there08:45
ericzit does if you install it08:45
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Abulafiaah, its the old mistral one08:46
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Abulafiait doesnt work so well on the n80008:46
ericzoh :/08:46
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Abulafiasadly, i saw some posts about updating it to work on bora08:48
Abulafiaor work properly08:48
Abulafiabut the threads seem to have died in april08:48
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Abulafiaso, the people in the ny nokia store are nice. they gave me the one spare wired headset they had08:50
Abulafiai offered to pay, and they turned me down08:50
Abulafiai didnt even buy from them directly08:50
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Komarovwhat's the version of the Opera in the latest firmware?09:29
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JaffaMorning, all10:37
johann__hmm, should i actually try to use the sdk on suse, or is it better to use some debian xen dom for it?10:38
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pupnik_shouldn't matter10:42
pupnik_some kernels don't work though10:42
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draeger777  /awazy10:46
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janifedora/redhat kernel had issue with one feature by default but it could be change from commandline without reboot if i remember correctly.10:49
melmothjohann__, i had the same issue on a RHEL box, i opted for xen.10:50
melmothworks nice...except for some network related weirdness (gnome vfs ftp and xen bridging issue i m too lazy to try to understand)10:51
johann__ok, thank you10:52
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pupnik_sbaturzio: do you have an Aloha! script? :)11:37
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sbaturziopupnik_: just fingers :)11:39
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pupnik_well Guten Morgen mein freund11:40
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Mikhois it safe to cast a GtkWindow down to HildonWindow?11:53
Mikho...a programmer shouldn't have to think things like this11:53
nomisMikho: the other way around.11:53
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nomisit is safe to cast a HildonWindow to a GtkWindow.11:53
Mikhowell that goes without saying11:54
nomisno, the other way around is not safe.11:54
inzUnless you know, it's a HildonWindow11:54
Mikhook. The problem here is that one cannot create HildonWindows with glade11:54
Mikhoso I'd have to create a GtkWindow to hold all the widgets, load the xml with libglade, detach the widgets from the top level gtkwindow and attach it to a hand made HildonWindow11:55
inzAs GtkWindow is a GtkBin, that means that you only have to reattach the one child of the window11:57
nomisMikho: did you try changing the xml manually?11:57
Mikhoinz, that's how I did it, but it still felt a bit awkward11:58
nomis(it actually *is* awkward  :)11:58
Mikhowhat would changing the xml manually help?11:58
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nomisMikho: at some point it describes the GtkWindow. It should be possible to exchange GtkWindow with a HildonWindow there. At least if libglade is implemented somewhat sane.11:59
pupnik_hi lardman11:59
lardmanhi pupnik_11:59
inznomis, if it would work, you'd need to call hildon_window_get_type() before libglade tries to open the .xml12:00
Mikhoit's actually possible to change the window to say HildonWindow even in the editor. I just wasn't sure if it was able instantiate a HildonWindow anyway12:00
inz(haven't tried, but without that, glade has no hope of finding the class HildonWindow)12:00
nomisinz: shouldn't libglade do this? They need to map arbitrary strings to gobject types anyway.12:00
inznomis, mapping arbitary strings to gobjects requires that they're registered to GType system12:01
inznomis, and as libglade doesn't normally support hildon, I'm guessing they don't do that12:01
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nomisinz: I'm willing to bet that libglade does not a *_get_type() for all gtk widgets. That would be a waste.12:02
JaffaInteresting link to engadget from maemo-users12:03
Mikhomaybe I'll try12:03
Mikhoreattaching the windows seems to work, but I kinda hate awkward code12:04
inznomis, well, then they'd have to do go from FuckedCase to under_score, and do dlsym(NULL, under_score_get_Type) and call that12:04
nomisHmm. I kind of expected g_type_from_name() to do what I want it to, but doesn't seem so.12:04
inznomis, well, it pretty much cannot do that12:05
nomisinz: the more I think about it the more I believe you're right.12:06
MikhoI spent the whole yesterday fighting against "cannot find signal handler <blah>"12:06
inzMikho, what's your plan now, going single or multithread?12:07
nomiswell, libglade probably does evil library stuff anyway, when I think about all that autoconnect stuff.12:07
Mikhobut got more experience points and maybe a level when I realized c++ mangles the symbol names so libglade doesn't find them anymore12:07
inzMikho, extern "C" {}12:07
Mikhoinz, indeed :)12:07
Mikhoinz, multithreaded it is12:07
inzdamn, I though I had you12:08
inzbut you've gone to the dark side :(12:08
MikhoI'm not afraid of the threads, even though they might strangle me12:08
inzI'm still claiming that you'd get at least the same power efficiency, if not better, with single threaded approach12:09
nomisYay for single threaded programming!12:09
inznomis, on uniprocessor systems12:10
MikhoI'll remember your wise words if I fail12:10
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nomisMikho: did you try exchanging the type name? I'm really curious now  :)12:14
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MikhoI'll try for you :)12:16
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inzAt least glade doesn't understand it12:34
inzNo idea of libglade12:34
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disqheh. metalayer-crawler was taking a long time probably scanning my sardine partition, so i disabled it. felt good12:50
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sbaturziois there a way to forward the X session thru ssh?12:57
pancakeman ssh?12:57
sbaturzioI mean: I want to start an application on N800 but see the output on my PC12:57
sbaturziopancake: I tried to enable X11forwarding but it doesn't work12:57
pancakeon wikipedia there are examples of use12:57
sbaturziomaybe because the only user I can use for an ssh connection is root and not "user"12:58
sbaturzioforwarding X between my PC's works fine12:58
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pancakedoes the ssh works ?13:04
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cosmosbaturzio: use options -XY when connecting13:05
cosmoi've run app from PC to 770, not vice versa. i believe it should work13:06
nomisalso check the DISPLAY environment variable after ssh'ing onto the N80013:06
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sbaturziocosmo: /etc/ssh/sshd_config the X11Forwarding is 'yes', connecting with "ssh -XY ..." doesn't create the right DISPLAY variable13:07
sbaturziolet me try to force it to a right value...13:07
nomissbaturzio: it should be something like localhost:12.013:07
sbaturzio12? not 10?13:08
nomiswell, thats not that relevant.13:08
nomisthe point is, that it is not something like localhost:0.0 - the x11 protocol gets encapsulated into a ssh tunnel.13:09
sbaturzioanyway...still "cannot open display" error13:09
sbaturziomust I reboot the whole n800 after changing the sshd_config?13:09
nomishmm, maybe some xauth-related problem. Not that I'd know that much about that...13:10
nomissbaturzio: at least restart the ssh daemon.13:10
sbaturziothe -Y should override the xauth problem, shouldn't it?13:10
nomisoh, ok.13:11
cosmoit allows clients to do some "unsecure" things13:11
sbaturzionomis: ssh restarted, no change13:11
cosmofor example using menus in gnome apps crashes the app if -Y is not on13:11
cosmodo you have openssh server, not the other one?13:11
sbaturzioare we sure the openssh support X11forwarding?13:14
sbaturziohow can we check this?13:14
cosmoyes i am.13:15
cosmounless openssh maemo port is somehow crippled13:15
JussiP_By default OpenSSH servers do not allow X forwarding.13:15
cosmoJussiP_: yes, that's why must use -XY13:16
JussiP_Check /etc/ssh/ssh_config13:16
JussiP_cosmo: no, that is for client, the server can also refuse X even if the client requests it.13:16
JussiP_I meant sshd_config of course.13:17
sbaturzioJussiP_: sshd_config it's ok: "X11Forwarding yes"13:17
cosmoJussiP_: at least on normal desktop linux the server allows it if client requests it13:18
JussiP_Not so on Debian at least.13:18
inzcosmo, doesn't -Y imply -X?13:19
sbaturzioJussiP_: changes the ssh_config, just to be sure, but nothing change13:19
JussiP_I mean check ssdh_config at the *other* end. ssh_config is overridden by command line parameters.13:20
cosmoJussiP_: oh ok.. i'm only familiar with ubuntu & fedora13:20
cosmoinz: maybe so.. at least -XY works for me13:21
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sbaturziouhm....the message is "GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - cannot open display:"   with nothing on the end...maybe is something related to GTK, not to X?13:24
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cbx33hey all13:29
cbx33just got my nokia n80013:29
cy-I'll brb13:29
sbaturziouhmm....some improvement13:30
cbx33the application installer doesn't seem to support the proxy settings13:30
cbx33is that known13:30
sbaturziostarting xephyr on my pc and giving the DISPLAY=ipofmypc:2 on n800 change something13:30
Mikhonomis, it seems the editor doesn't allow me to change GtkWindow into HildonWindow13:30
Mikhoso editing the xml file would be too much hassle as the changes would be overwritten every time I save13:31
inzMikho, I noticed that too, neither does it allow to load an .xml where you've changed that to something "weird"13:31
inzMikho, even if that "weird" has been registered to the GType system13:32
Mikhoso the only possibility is to manually reattach the widget under the first window13:32
inzso it seems13:32
inz(or ditch glade ;)13:32
Mikhonever! :)13:32
nomisok, thanks for trying.13:33
cbx33also is there a nice tutorial for setting up a python dev environment for the n800?13:33
sbaturzioOK, seems X11 forwarding works at least13:34
sbaturziobut we need to start  xephyr  on PC before13:34
sbaturzionow I got a problem related to sapwood server which is not running for that DISPLAY13:35
cbx33I'm guessing I really need the terminal on my n800 before i can hack about much13:35
cy-still no SIP or IAX client for n800 :(13:36
cbx33but I can't get it because app manager doesn't seem to honnur the proxy settingo13:36
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cbx33anyone know anything about it?13:40
nomisMikho: (I'd still be interested what happens if you manually change that)13:41
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zuhnomis: It would work, but only if someone (either your app or a libglade module) registers the widget type with libglade before loading it14:30
zuhLike this:
zuhBut as I said, it could be done in your app too14:32
disqthe new unzip.desktop has "NoDisplay=true" but it's still shown in launch menu (bora)14:34
disqi'm guessing the file is there for mime type purposes14:34
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cosmois xchat maemo porter here?14:53
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inzwhich one?15:02
inzI did one port15:02
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inzIt is way worse than skyhusker's, but at least when it breaks, you get to keep both pieces15:03
cosmoi'd like to fix a bug in it as a excercise15:03
cosmohm, i've got 2.6.4 in 770 installed.. it's a old version15:04
inzthen it's most likely mine, the source is at
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cosmoinz: ok.. it's the one found on repositories15:07
inzThe source for skyhusker's port isn't publicly available15:07
cosmoand i haven't found a way to add autojoin channels15:07
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inzcosmo, I only did mine because skyhusker hadn't "ported" his to mistral at the time15:10
inzcosmo, you're probably way better of using his port:
cosmothere is patch for 2.8.0 available
inztrue, there is nowadays15:11
inzdunno if it's the same as used for the 2.8.215:12
inzactually it is not, it has more patches15:12
EnokHow to get rid of broken zsh install on n800, both apt install and remove hang15:16
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inzEnok, remove /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.*rm15:17
Veggen(side note: I'd love to have zsh on the n800)15:18
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alteregoWell, just ordered an N800 :)15:20
alteregoSo, I remember hearing about a Ruby Hildon binding. Is this true?15:21
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EnokHmm didn't help15:24
EnokSorry it did help!15:26
inzEnok, thanks for reminding me (goes off to remove the package from repo)15:27
cbx33dude you guys rock!15:30
cbx33I'm an Ubuntu with a little time to help out.  What can I do15:30
cbx33I'm also a python coder15:30
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cbx33an Ubuntu dev and MOTU15:34
cbx33sorry trying to learn dvorak15:34
inzRobot101, EWINDOW15:35
Robot101yeah, focus was sluggish15:35
inz*grumble* curses web site spammers *grumble*15:35
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inzFortunately wordpress can handle spam quite well, can't say the same about trac...15:36
alteregoSo, would I piss off google if I worked on a Ruby binding for Maemo?15:36
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alteregoIt's all very well this S. o. Code thing. But this means I have to wait until the end of the summer for something I could probably knock together myself pretty quickly.15:37
Jaffaalterego: is it "permitted" to assist the existing project?15:38
alteregoI don't know.15:38
alteregoAlso, as far as I know the project hasn't even started yet.15:38
alteregoIt's actually been about 2 years since I did any hacking in maemo. So I'm a bit out of date and touch.15:40
suihkulokkialterego: I don't think google cares, but your mentor might15:40
alteregoMy mentor? I don't have a mentor.15:40
alteregoI'm not part of SoC. I'm talking about high jacking the project. :)15:40
suihkulokkiah, theyll just be happy if you the work for them =)15:41
alteregoRight, well I might get started then ;)15:41
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zuhI doubt there is any real reason to hold back. Duplicated work is just stupid, not illegal ;)15:42
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zuhWell, actually I guess the competition would only do good in this kind of situations15:43
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Jaffazuh: well, it's no good if apps get written to one set of Ruby/Hildon bindings and then that goes away in favour of a different set of bindings.15:47
* cbx33 feels invisible..... is there some kind of right of passage, or initation ceremony?15:47
alteregocbx33, eh?15:48
alteregoI SEE YOU!15:48
cbx33people seem so busy in here15:49
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cbx33does anyone else have probloems using the application installer with a proxy?15:54
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inzcbx, don't have a proxied network available, so cannot check :(15:58
Jaffacbx33: No, it should work with the system proxy. apt-get in xterm respects http_proxy, of course.15:59
colinlhey there15:59
colinlwould anyone here with an n800 have a few minutes to (in)validate packages and a .install file ? I'm trying to set up scratchbox and a repository for Claws Mail16:00
colinlI'd like a quick test from someone who has the hardware16:00
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inzcolinl, whats wrong with the official repo?16:02
colinlinz: it's not done by me :) I should receive an n800 soonish, and will take over package maintainance16:03
colinlso I'd like to see if my procedure is ok :)16:03
inzsure, just pass a link16:03
colinl should be enough for it to work if I did no mistakes...16:04
inzI'll remove the "old" one first16:04
colinlinz: thanks :)16:04
inzat least the file type for the .install file is wrong16:05
inzit just opens it in browser16:05
cbx33Jaffa, heheh if i could get xterm16:05
cbx33does the app manager use apt?16:06
colinlinz: hhm right, thanks :)16:06
colinlfixing it...16:06
cbx33using apt won't affect app manager right?16:06
inzcolinl, and your repo is broken too16:07
inzcolinl, you should either have a "binary-armel" dir under the "user" dir, where the Packages.gz lies16:07
inzcolinl, or you should make the repo line ./16:08
colinluhm right, thanks :)16:09
colinlfixed. Care to try again?16:09
inzcolinl, now the packages file is wrong16:11
disqcolinl: of course one could the maemo garage repository16:11
inzif you're using <url> <distribution> <section> -format, the urls in the packages must be relative to the <url>16:11
disqrecently ferenc fixed the docman filetypes so adding .install files as documents in garage projects now work in opera16:12
colinlinz: ah, fixing that :)16:12
inzcolinl, i.e. in this case, the Packages.gz should say dists/bora/user/binary-armel/claws-mail..._armel.deb16:12
inzcolinl, I, personally, use reprepro to handle apt repository16:13
inzcolinl, it takes care of most things for me, I just upload package to a dir and a cron job collects if and puts into place16:13
infobotinz meant: colinl, it takes care of most things for me, I just upload package to a dir and a cron job collects it and puts into place16:14
inz/brick infobot16:16
inzif it supported 5blrt, that'd be cool16:17
colinlinz: fixed the Packages.gz16:17
inzcolinl, downloading...16:18
inzcolinl, you need (way) more bandwidth than that ;)16:18
colinlinz: yeah :)16:18
colinlit won't stay there... but I don't want to break the official one with my tests16:19
inzFoolish, I say, foolish16:19
inzstarts up and sees my mail at least16:20
colinlinz: great! many thanks for the test :)16:20
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Jaffacbx33: App Mgr is just a user "friendly" front end to apt16:23
cbx33ok thought so16:26
JaffaYay, productive user-focused discussion on maemo-developers :-)16:26
cbx33Jaffa have we met before?16:27
inzJaffa, yay, irony from a techie!16:28
cbx33thats almost unheard of16:28
alteregoDoes Minimo use XULRunner?16:29
alteregoI'd love to see XUL/Maemo .. That'd be awesome.16:30
alteregoMaybe I'll work on that,.16:30
timelessas of mar it definitely wasn't by default16:30
Jaffainz: ;-p16:31
Jaffaalterego: XUL/Maemo would be very cool - simple XUL apps written in JS would rock.16:32
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timelessjaffa: unfortunately, cairo on n800 is slow16:32
timelessso some people won't be happy w/ it16:32
alteregoXULRunner uses Cairo?16:33
JaffaI thought there were some good optimisations there?16:33
timelessmodern geckos do, yes16:33
timelessjaffa: ?16:33
timelessi certainly haven't heard of any embedders happy w/ cairo16:33
* lardman curses 16-bit chars16:33
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alteregoYeah, it was all the FP16:34
timelessi have heard someone complaining about cairo/embedded devices this morning16:34
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timelesslardman: would you rather 32-bit chars?16:34
suihkulokkiadd cairo - instant lag16:34
alteregoI do seem to remember an effort of embedding Cairo though, quite a while ago mind.16:34
lardmantimeless: No, 8bit is fine by me :)16:34
timelesslardman: personally i'd rather 7bit16:35
alteregoI thought that was why Nokia decided on Gtk1.6 or whatever, as it was pre Cairo.16:35
timelessi think i could probably get by with 5 or 6 :)16:35
colinlalterego: 1.6? :)16:35
alterego2.6 sorry ;)16:35
* timeless sighs16:36
timelesssilly cairo developers claim cairo is not slow16:36
alteregoI don't like this maemo downloads section.16:36
timelessall the users complain cairo is slow16:36
alteregoHalf the projects are rubbish anyhow.16:36
DaniellionI would be happy with updated flash engine on the 77016:37
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inztimeless, pipe dream as in "nearly impossible to achieve" or as in "outcome would never reach initial expectations"?16:41
cbx33Hey OgMaciel16:44
OgMacielhey cbx33!  good morning16:44
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trevarthandisq: BTW, the Last.FM support has been merged:
trevarthanSorry I couldn't let you know sooner. My ISP lost a router or something in the electrical storm last night. My town's internet just came back up a few hours ago. :)16:45
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timelesssimply "that won't happen"16:48
timelessnokia eol'd 770 support, right?16:48 looks clean :P16:49
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cbx33OgMaciel: your blog post made me get a nokia n80016:49
disqinteresting, which post?16:50
dpb_timeless: atleast the hacker edition lives16:50
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timelessdpb: well, let me know if the hacker edition can run flash9 :)16:50
dpb_sure :)16:51
timelesswhile you're at it, explain how someone who doesn't own an n800 can legal obtain flash9 for his 77016:51
cbx33on planet ubuntu ;) - used the money i got for writing my chapter of the official ubuntu book16:51
OgMacielcbx33: hehehe...  if I only made comission ;)16:51
dpb_no idea on that..16:51
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timelessdpb: thankfully i have a box containing an n800, so i don't have /that/ problem16:51
dpb_I don't have a n800..16:52
cbx33OgMaciel:  you done any python coding on yours yet?16:52
timelessyou have a 770 running hacker edition? :)16:52
* timeless sighs16:52
* dpb_ is waiting for a new hacker edition version..16:52
OgMacielcbx33: I did actually... got my tasks app running in it16:53
colinlOgMaciel: about -- do you know whether developers will need to install a new target, or are packages made for Bora OK with this new release?16:53
OgMacielcolinl: not too sure but I believe what you said is correct16:53
colinlOgMaciel: you mean the second part of my sentence is correct? :)16:54
OgMacielcolinl: ya  :)16:54
colinlok, thanks16:54
trevarthandisq: dude, I love your maemoscrobbler package. That thing is *great*. is really cool too.16:54
cbx33OgMaciel: you got a dev environment on your pc?16:55
trevarthandbus is awesome too. :)16:55
OgMacielspeaking of maemoscrobbler, which player can I use with it?16:55
OgMacielcbx33: what do you mean?16:55
inzcolinl, at least all my packages built with 3.0 bora work with the new release16:55
colinlinz: ok16:55
colinlinz: you mean the repo you just tested, it was with the new release?16:55
inzcolinl, yes16:56
colinlah, great, so i have my answer -- no extra work required16:56
colinlI love that kind of news, thanks:)16:56
trevarthanOgMaciel: you can use it with Kagu for one. No .deb yet, but you can download from SVN: `svn co kagu`  Requirements are python 2.5 and mplayer. It's written in python, so there is nothing to compile.16:56
cbx33OgMaciel: how did you test/develop your port16:56
inzcolinl, and personally I'd suggest against updating your rootstrap, to keep compatibility with older releases16:56
colinlyes, that's what I wanted16:57
colinlkeep the oldest thing possible16:57
inzcolinl, I build my packages with the original mistral rootstrap and the original bora rootstrap16:57
inzcolinl, that way mistral, gregale and scirocco are supported, as are all bora revisions16:57
disqtrevarthan: i'll add view queue / view history dialogs to the cp applet someday. and of course mistral support, currently it won't load because there's no libconic16:57
OgMacielcbx33: I didn't do anything fancy really... copied the code over and to tell you the truth it just worked  ;)16:58
OgMacieltrevarthan: niiiice... thanks16:58
disqtrevarthan: btw what would be great in kano is another view with history of the songs that were just played16:58
colinlinz: that's what I plan to do :) I'm currently running my build script on the mistral rootstrap. In a few minutes I should be able to bother an n770 user with a test :)16:58
cbx33installed python from the maemo site?16:58
OgMacielcbx33: I used the script that lets you install WordPy16:58
cbx33how fast is python on it?16:58
OgMacielcbx33: I didn't see any speed improvements... but then again, I'm no expert on the matter16:59
inzcolinl, I'd be happy to help ;)16:59
disqOgMaciel: canola's next release will probably include support for maemoscrobbler, though not sure when that might be :)16:59
trevarthanOgMaciel: once you've got it checked out, cd into the kagu dir, then run ./ to generate the id3 database. Finally, run ./ to run the app.17:00
k-s[WORK]disq: next canola will not happen so soon, however we plan to release it with python bindings and you will be able to add audio scroobbler support even if we don't do17:00
trevarthandisq: I agree. I need volume and song seek views too. And I need to roll a deb. :( so little time.17:00
OgMacielcbx33: so you can write blog posts17:01
disqk-s[WORK]: cool, bindings would be much better17:01
OgMacieldisq: hummm... I already have it installed and it is pretty cool17:01
OgMacieltrevarthan: awsome... does it use sqlite?17:01
* cbx33 is VERY excited17:02
disqOgMaciel: MyDocs/.sounds/kagu.db :)17:02
k-s[WORK]disq: actually, we hope for canola to be all in python17:02
* k-s[WORK] is tried of gobject and friends17:02
trevarthanor /media/mmc1/kagu.db, depending.17:02
OgMacielk-s[WORK]: niiiice17:02
disqk-s[WORK]: i want canola to be open sourced, that's all i really want :P17:02
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OgMacieltrevarthan: have you tested it against sqlite 3.4 by any chance?17:03
k-s[WORK]disq: me too, believe me17:03
trevarthanOgMaciel: it works with the sqlite3 that comes with python 2.5.17:03
k-s[WORK]I like to build infrastructure, not implementing minor wishlists17:03
k-s[WORK]I really really want you to make those :-)17:03
* OgMaciel will take kagu for a spin this afternoon17:04
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k-s[WORK](and myself as an oss contributor, do my own wishes without following company roadmaps)17:04
colinl*: does someone here with a 770 (OS 2006) have a few minutes to test a repository ?17:05
* trevarthan is looking for help developing Kagu, so if anyone is tired of waiting for Canola to be open source and wants to make something better than Canola, please join me.17:05
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: why not help ukmp?17:05
colinlinz: ah you have a 770 too?17:05
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trevarthank-s[WORK]: have you seen ukmp's code? It's a rat's nest.17:05
colinlinz: so, here it is:
eugenewhat's the state of kagu17:06
k-s[WORK]also, next canola will have its ui based on evas and other libs we call "efl", it's totally open source and public, you can base your work on that17:06
disqtrevarthan: i'm weak in python and ui areas (it not being gtk and all) but i'm making myself familar with the code17:06
trevarthanAnd besides, konttori doesn't seem too receptive to patches.17:06
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: so, maybe you can try EFL?17:06
inzcolinl, yay, the .install file is with correct mime type now ;)17:06
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: have you seen my demo?17:06
colinlinz: yes :)17:06
disqkonttori is receptive to patches in my experience, i think he's just a little preoccupied17:07
k-s[WORK]I'm writing a new demo, a virtual keyboard that is usable at least17:07
trevarthank-s[WORK]: or maybe I can continue working on kagu. I'm already committed to it at this point.17:07
disqalso, imho ukmp is not the best infrastructure to develop on, the code is not simple and nice17:07
* k-s[WORK] would like to see pretty and fast apps for maemo... and EFL can help a lot here17:07
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trevarthank-s[WORK]: alright, I'll bite. What is EFL and where can I see this demo?17:08
inzcolinl, just a sec, my 770 seems to be somewhat messed up17:09
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: EFL stands for "Enlightenment Foundation Libraries", Enlightenment is a window manager built with performance and cute graphics in mind17:09
eugenek-s[WORK]: any support for chinese fonts in canola?17:10
trevarthandisq: I actually want to make a GTK ui for I need a progress bar and an iterface for changing which paths to scan. You could help with that if you're good with gtk....17:10
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: Evas is the canvas, really easy and powerful, I have 16bpp engine for n800, optimized17:10
k-s[WORK]eugene: just install a font with utf-8 support and it might work, we have already some reports that it works17:10
disqtrevarthan: i'm good with gtk in C, but i'll dig up some pygtk examples and try17:10
trevarthank-s[WORK]: can you code for Evas and EFL in python?17:10
eugenek-s[WORK]: any idea where i can download a chinese font?17:11
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: sure, I wrote the bindings :-)17:11
k-s[WORK]eugene: no idea, red hat or debian may provide some17:11
eugeneoh. so it's not from maemo17:11
trevarthandisq: check out pymp. Has some nice clean gtk examples we could steal. I'm not looking for complex. Just functional.17:11
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: you can get them from their CVS or my binary packages for n80017:11
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k-s[WORK]eugene: ttf are not architecture dependant17:11
k-s[WORK]eugene: also, neither 770 or n800 has official chinese support, thus no fonts17:12
trevarthank-s[WORK]: easier or harder to use than pygame?17:12
disqtrevarthan: just a scanning: /path/to/file label and a progress bar?17:12
eugenek-s[WORK]: ok17:12
trevarthandisq: just a progress bar would be fine for now. Later we can add the ability to modify which paths get scanned and store that using the module.17:13
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: it's much easier than pygame, and if you search my blog you'll find that I'm a big pygame fan, with tutorials and so17:13
trevarthank-s[WORK]: well, you got my attention. I'll check it out.17:13
trevarthanIf I do decide to use Evas + EFL then I'll make at least one release for pygame first. I've invested too much time in it to just throw it all away without a release...17:14
inzcolinl, now I got it, my app-mgr was in red-pill, that's why it was so damn slow...17:14
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: I promise to provide an iphone-like virtual keyboard by the end of this week17:15
colinlred-pill is the "do what I want even if it isn't a good idea" mode?17:15
inzcolinl, yes17:15
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: take some time to learn Edje, it will save you a lot of development effort17:15
trevarthanI need to get my hands on an iphone. I've only seen the adverts on tv.17:15
colinlinz: so, the mistral repo is working too?17:15
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inzcolinl, installing...17:15
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colinlok :)17:15
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: you can ask guys at #e or #edevelop, or ask kenne, andrunko or myself, we're working with it about 1 month17:16
inzcolinl, the repo is at least ok, the package seems to be too17:16
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trevarthank-s[WORK]: cool. Is it portable like pygame?17:16
disqi'm watching a few evas/edje videos on youtube right now17:17
colinlinz: many thanks for your time ! now I think I'll just have to wait until the thing shows up in the mail :)17:17
cbx33ahhh I'll ask later17:17
kennetrevarthan,  im not sure it runs on macos x yet17:17
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: yes, it is17:17
k-s[WORK]kenne: macosx has X, so it can run it17:17
kennebut has it been tested?17:17
k-s[WORK]kenne: yes17:17
k-s[WORK]kenne: and there is one guy, caro, doing the native win3217:18
kennemiguel told me that he couldnt get it working on his mac17:18
k-s[WORK]kenne: because miguel is a designer?17:18
kennewell... compiling isnt that hard :) and there are lots of hackers around17:18
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: evas is much more well designed and complete than pygame.sprite.Group (and sub-classes)17:18
disqevas looks nice. now what we need is an app with parallax scrolling :P17:20
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: we have a really fast overlapping rectangle elimination, fast operations for scale, fade transparent images (which neither SDL or pygame do) and even colorize (make/tint one image green, for example)17:20
inzcolinl, and verifying the package works too, downloading mails now17:20
colinlinz: ok, perfect!17:20
disqyeah. since evas is probably fast enough to handle it :P17:20
trevarthanso it supports translucency?17:21
colinlnow I'm starting to wait for the postman ...17:21
trevarthanwithout hardware support?17:21
k-s[WORK]disq: wtf is parallax?17:21
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: yes, it does17:21
alteregoThat's weird, what have nvidia got to do with the N800?17:21
trevarthannice. I've been missing that with pygame.17:21
k-s[WORK]add my repository and install python-efl-core-demo17:21
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k-s[WORK]disq: ah, e17 have a background just like this17:22
k-s[WORK]disq: you can just have the layers and make them move on their own speed17:22
k-s[WORK]disq: not sure n800 would handle that :-/17:22
disqyeah. and put in widgets in the layers. :P17:22
k-s[WORK]ah, also good is to check for etk and etk_test, check for the embedded test17:23
k-s[WORK]you can embedded ETK into your app, doing forms when required17:23
k-s[WORK]ETK is GTK-like, with objects, signal... it's almost the same API to make transition easy17:23
eugeneif anyone knows of a repo that i can use to install gcc, g++, make, etc on n800, do let me know17:24
* zuh pictures the battery life with a background which is parallax scrolling... nope, sorry. Unimaginably short.17:24
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Fataleugene: pardon me, but oh GOD why? :)17:24
k-s[WORK]eugene: it would exaust your flash, and I don't know any packages that install packages on MMC17:24
disqeugene: google for debian-armel, but it was a .tgz and not a repo. you can extract it in a seperate ext2 partition (on mmc, for instance) and move/symlink the binaries17:24
k-s[WORK]eugene: maybe you want to run it inside qemu?17:25
eugenek-s[WORK]: that would be tricky.17:25
eugenei suspect that scratchbox could be buggy for something i want to do17:25
disqk-s[WORK]: if it's not gtk, wouldn't it be problematic to use with the vkb and hildon/maemo modifications?17:25
eugeneso i'm looking at compiling it natively on the device itself.17:25
disqk-s[WORK]: but widgets i meant really simple widgets like a playlist or album list or something like that17:26
k-s[WORK]eugene: not qemu like in scratchbox, but boot into Qemu-arm and use the entire system there17:26
suihkulokkithe debian armel port is way ahead of maemo, ie it has gcc-4.1 and glibc 2.517:26
suihkulokkiso the binaries will not run on vanilla n80017:26
k-s[WORK]vivijim: explain to eugene what you're working on17:26
eugenesuihkulokki: is there a way to use debian armel and still make sure the binaries work on vanilla n800?17:27
suihkulokkicompile static binaries?17:27
disqchroot into debian-armel and take the static road, yes17:27
eugenethe end product is actually a kernel module17:27
eugeneso i guess that isn't much of an issue17:27
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suihkulokkithat will be an issue17:28
eugenebut, is it possible to make a debian armel qemu guest compile a lkm that i can insmod on n800?17:28
suihkulokkiyou really need to compile the modules with same gcc17:28
disqyou should be fine with scratchbox (if you have non-qemu emulated instructions/flags, use cpu transparency and compile on the OMAP)17:28
eugeneor boot to a n800 kernel?17:28
suihkulokki-as the kernel17:28
eugenesuihkulokki: n800 doesn't have gcc in the first place. so i guess you are referring to compiling the modules with the same kernel version?17:28
eugenedisq: i'm not fine with scratchbox, which is why i am coming up with alternative plans. can't really determine if the bug is with the software or with scratchbox environment.17:29
eugenesomething really weird is happening.17:29
suihkulokkieugene: if your end product is a kernel module, you need to use the same gcc version as the kernel was built with17:29
disqthere's scratchbox2 too, maybe you should ask in maemo-devel17:29
eugenesuihkulokki: right.17:29
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marciomeugene, we started a project that puts maemo inside a chroot environment using qemu. I think that's what you want to do17:30
eugenesuihkulokki: that would be tricky.17:30
eugenemarciom: tell me more.17:30
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eugenemarciom: think that's more like setting up a native environment in a virtualized os17:30
infoboteugene meant: marciom: think that's more like setting up a native environment in a emularted os17:30
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suihkulokkieugene: so cpu transparency (sbrsh) is probably to your rescue, if the issue is due to qemu17:30
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disqeugene: okay, transfer the filesystem to mmc, install -dev debs, and cross compile gcc on scratchbox? mm, that would take a while17:31
eugenesuihkulokki: i don't really get what you mean17:31
eugenemarciom: checking it out17:31
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eugenedisq: actually, i got the toolchain on scratchbox but i'm observing strange behaviours that i am not sure if it is the problem with the software or scratchbox. looking at other ways to determine who's fault and solve what i am working on17:32
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eugenesuihkulokki: checking it out17:32
eugenesuihkulokki: intersting article, thanks17:32
k-s[WORK]eugene: marciom and vivijim are working on maemo working fully inside qemu, with ARM kernel and stuff, that will save you a lot of problems17:33
suihkulokkieugene: you can skip the usb networking part of the doc if you can commmunicate from your pc to your n800 via wlan17:33
k-s[WORK]it's a bit slower, but worth avoiding the pain17:33
eugenek-s[WORK]: that sounds awesome. i will try it out17:33
disqeugene: the gcc on the scratchbox is for intel so you can't directly move it over to the device. my idea was to compile a newer gcc that would run on armel and the same version as the one in the sb, install the rest of the headers and libraries from the devenv17:33
eugenesuihkulokki: nod17:33
eugenedisq: gcc is for armel.17:33
disqthen i don't see why you are looking for debian-armel packages17:34
eugenedisq: i have successfully compiled lkms for armel in scratchbox and transferred to n800.17:34
eugenedisq: for some reasons :)17:34
disqokay :P17:34
eugenemarciom: thanks for the link. this is definitely something i am going to try it out!17:34
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marciomeugene, nice.17:35
marciomthis is only the beginning. We plan to have system emulation too17:36
eugenemarciom: so maemo on qemu has toolchain tools too?17:36
eugenemarciom: and compiling stuff on it, should work on n800 too?17:36
eugenemarciom: that includes running the same zImage as the one i compiled for n800?17:37
marciomnomis, not yet17:37
marciomeugene, not yet17:37
eugenewhat do you mean :)17:37
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marciomat the moment only applications run under qemu17:38
marciomyou can not emulate the kernel17:38
vivijimeugene: we don't have a kernel emulation yet... just an user mode emulation17:38
marciomyou can do gcc hello.c inside mamona and it will generate an armel binary17:38
eugenei see.17:39
eugenewhat kernel version is it using17:39
vivijimeugene: and the packages inside mamona aren't from maemo... we are building all mamona packages using OpenEmbedded...17:39
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vivijimeugene: actually no one... it is under user mode emulation yet.17:39
eugeneso i guess it might not be useful for me..17:40
trevarthanIf anyone wants a list of Kagu's features, check here:
trevarthanI'll flesh that page out over time with some screenshots and such.17:40
vivijimeugene: we intend to work on a full emulated system, but there is a lot of work before...17:41
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eugenemaybe i just give it a try first, and see how it goes. keeping my fingers cross.17:42
suihkulokkilong term, qemu system emulation is the way to go for application testing.17:43
etrunkoanyone knows if maemo gtk somehow prevents emission of 'row-activated' GtkTreeView signal?17:43
suihkulokkirunning maemo env in a chroot with qemu-user is just too fragile17:43
eugenesuihkulokki: nod.17:43
Jaffatrevarthan: any pages/screenshots/plans online for kagu?17:45
marciomsuihkulokki, what do you mean by fragile?17:45
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k-s[WORK]marciom: it's easy to screw17:47
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etrunkogtk/gtktreeview.c  (!)  M58  Double click handling code (in button_press) commented out, should be uncommented17:47
k-s[WORK]marciom: just try to compile some modules that check for things qemu-user doesn't cover and bong, you're fucker17:48
trevarthanJaffa: you know, I don't have any screenshots yet. But I really need some. How do I do that in maemo?17:50
Jaffatrevarthan: SSH in and use osso-screenshot-tool, or there's a status bar applet which allows you to do it on a timer, IIRC17:50
timelessdoes anyone here know how to fix Xephyr keymap?17:51
suihkulokkimarciom: well, 1) qemu-user's syscall emulation is incomplete and plays allways catch-up to real kernel 2) you don't have a "booted up" system, you have to start services by hand with different priviledges than usual17:51
timelessall of my keys are one letter off17:51
timelessif i type: snpiy i get about17:52
eugenemelmoth: hi buddy17:52
melmothhi there eugene !17:53
melmothand hello world.17:53
etrunkomelmoth: thanks17:53
_Monkeysomebody said kagu was a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here:
trevarthanforget kagu17:54
_Monkeytrevarthan: I forgot kagu17:54
disqtrevarthan: the latest build doesn't have .encode('ascii', 'ignore') in kaguscanner? (imageSearch)17:55
trevarthanKagu is a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here:
_Monkeykagu is a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here:
trevarthandisq: no, sorry. I haven't merged it yet.17:56
Jaffatrevarthan: FEATURES seems to suggest a desire for some iPhone-like eye candy?17:56
infobotJaffa meant: trevarthan: FEATURES seems to suggest a desire for some iPhone-like UI candy?17:56
trevarthanJaffa: indeed17:57
trevarthandisq: I'll try to play with the mp3 you sent me tonight. sorry it's taken so long.17:57
eugenegood night17:57
_Monkeyi think a2dp is working here and is good. :) If you want a nice frontend GUI for a2dp after following the instructions on that page, ask me about kagu.17:58
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JaffaHow long do the batteries last in BT headphones?17:59
trevarthanmy motorola s9's batteries last about a day, continuous use.18:01
disqtrevarthan: it's just the scanning that's problematic. and making urllib.urlencode and image.load like utf8 filenames is the best approach, but i don't have any clue on how18:01
disqtrevarthan: have you noticed stuttering with mplayer when kagu is at the background? happened to me this morning18:02
trevarthanJaffa: listening to them now, actually, using Kagu. And thanks to disq's maemoscrobbler support, you can see what I'm listening to here:
trevarthandisq: mplayer might stutter a bit when kagu "spins up" it's draw() loop after key presses and such. Usually that happens after my n800 has been idle for quite a while though. I think it swaps out to disk or something. Haven't noticed sustained stuttering, no. Check memory consumption using `top` and CPU usage and also check to see if mplayer zombies are hanging around.18:04
disqzombies. mmm.18:05
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trevarthanyeah, I think I got em all recently, but if you're still using that version from a few days ago you might still get them.18:05
trevarthanprocess management is difficult, unfortunately.18:05
disqno it was last night's snapshot. yeah it is18:05
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trevarthando you have zombies?18:06
disqi'll opt for gstreamer when it's ready18:06
disqno, i didn't have them18:06
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trevarthanyeah. I'm going to make gst the default when a2dp is not turned on.18:06
trevarthangst will remove a dep and reduce song start latency, so I'm all for it.18:07
disqanyway, i'll take a peek at pymp now18:07
trevarthankeep in mind that you've probably already seen a lot of pymp as I stole it's mplayer process management and playlist for use in kagu.18:07
trevarthanI think and will be the most interesting for you.18:08
trevarthanwell, I gotta get some paid work done. Talk to you folks later.18:08
disqokay cya18:09
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alteregoAnyone use mplayer on the N800?18:21
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trevarthanalterego: I do. :)18:23
alteregoDoes it work well? What sort of performance are you getting?18:23
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chunowI've decide to get a tablet18:25
chunowand I've reading for a week18:26
Jaffachunow: cool18:26
chunowall information about nokia n770/n800 I could find18:27
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chunowbut I haven't been able to decide if buying a N800 or n77018:28
chunowI mean18:29
chunowAs i've never have one of them18:29
chunowsorry for my English, is not my native language :(18:30
`0660alterego, for me it works like a dream18:31
alteregochunow, I bought an N800 today. Should arrive in the next couple of days.18:31
chunowI've never had one of them, so I'd wonder18:31
chunowalterego: great!!18:31
alteregoI figured the price difference was small and the N800 is superior and most likely more active development now.18:31
alteregoThe 2x memory slots are a great bonus :)18:31
alteregoIt's Bluetooth 2.0 as well the 770 is 1.2 I believe.18:32
alteregoAppearantly the extra clock cycles make all the difference as well. Not sure about the PowerVR core. Isn't that 3DFX?18:33
chunowI haven't read so much :)18:33
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chunowmy question is because I can get a second hand n700 about at half price than n80018:34
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dragornthe powervr core isn't accessible18:34
chunownew n800, I mean18:34
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chunowand I wonder if improvements really cost that difference18:35
gla55what would you do with another n77018:38
gla55spread them over the house i suppose18:38
gla55but apart from that18:38
trevarthanJeffa: Got some screenshots up for ya:
chunowI mainly want it for email, rss, multimedia (audio streaming if possible from a home server)18:39
infobottrevarthan meant: Jaffa: Got some screenshots up for ya:
chunowgps, web and some office editing18:40
chunowopenoffice docs18:40
chunowor compatible18:40
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MikhoHow can I include my .glade file in the debian package? I suppose the program needs the file since it reads it runtime18:43
* disq satisfies all debian packaging needs by cheating off of other packages18:44
alteregoI'd like to see Elite on the N800 :)18:45
alteregoI've not played that in _ages_18:46
Mikhoand where should those kind of files go in the unix file system anyway?18:46
alteregoMikho, /usr/share/APPNAME18:46
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trevarthanalterego: yeah, mplayer works well. why?18:47
Mikhoso what should I do to to make dpkg install the .glade in /usr/share/myapp18:48
alteregotrevarthan, because I'll install it if it's good :P18:48
trevarthan:) yeah, it's good. I usually use the built in media player if I can, but mplayer is better for streaming and odd video formats.18:50
trevarthanI feel like a broken record here, but I also use it in kagu for audio playback and A2DP.18:50
trevarthankagu doesn't do video though. just audio18:51
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trevarthandisq: is there a way to rate songs through maemoscrobbler? If so, I'll add that to the kagu TTD list.19:00
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disqtrevarthan: no but let me see if there's such thing in the protocol19:04
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Jaffatrevarthan: looks very nice19:05
trevarthanJaffa: it's very early development phase right now. I've been working on it for a few weeks constantly, so it's fairly stable and usable, but far from complete.19:06
disqtrevarthan: there's a Love/Ban setting possible, i don't think it's worth the development19:06
Mikhohow do I define where my application looks for data files during runtime?19:06
trevarthanin particular, it has the beginnings of a nice theme system in place, driven by sqlite and an image file, so it can get a lot nicer looking.19:07
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trevarthandisq: ok. thanks for looking.19:07
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MikhoCan anybody help? I found out how to install data files into /usr/share/appname along with package install, but how do I make my app find the data file? The app should be able to find it also when running it in emulator, in which case the data file resides simply in a separate data folder in my project folder19:17
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alteregoWhat's the version of Maemo used in the N800 OS2007? 3.0 right?19:21
melmothcreate a symlink manually19:21
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Jaffaalterego: 3.2 with the latest firmware.19:25
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pbrookI just installed the latest update, and wireless seems to have broken even more than it was before.19:27
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pbrookThe wifi seems to stop responding shortly after sending a packet. With previous releases it stopped responding after 1s, with the new release it stops responding after 200ms.19:28
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pbrookIs this a known problem, and any suggestions for fixing it?19:28
pbrook... this is on an n800.19:28
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suihkulokkipbrook: what?19:29
pbrookOk, I've installed ssh on my n800.19:30
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pbrookAnd have it connected to my wireless network.19:30
pbrookWhen trying to connect from annother machine to the n800, the n800 doesn't respond at all (either to TCP connections ot ICMP pings).19:30
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pbrookExcept for a very small window (~200ms with the .28 release) after the n800 initiates network activity.19:31
suihkulokkipbrook: 1) what access point? latest firmare on the accesspoint?19:32
pbrookSo, if I do ping -i 0.2, this is sufficient to keep the network connection active". Otherwise the n800 seems to stop talking to the outside world.19:32
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pbrookI'm using the madwifi drivers in AP mode.19:32
suihkulokkipbrook: you can try "iwconfig wlan0 power off" to see if switching of pm helps19:32
pbrookHowever the same thing happens with other access points.19:33
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suihkulokkipbrook: perhaps this:
pbrookYes that looks like the same thing.19:35
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pbrookDisabling pm sems to do the trick, thanks.19:36
KaylaKazedammit! stupid program won't install 'cause it wants python 2.4 instead of 2.5. grrr19:37
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adam2anyone know what nokia n800 uses for text prediction?19:40
trevarth1nKaylaKaze: You trying to install MaemoChron?19:40
adam2i've looked at xkbd and matchbook-keyboard but don't see that feature19:40
trevarth1nKaylaKaze: whatever it is, log in as root and use dpkg -f or --force or whatever the option is to ignore dep restrictions. Then edit the python source file of the installed file and point it in the right direction.19:42
trevarth1nAs far as I know, everything written for python 2.4 works fine with python 2.5.19:42
trevarth1nthe reverse isn't true, but that isn't the case here.19:42
jerrellAnyone here using minimo on an n770 to browse local files ? I get a segfault whenever I try...19:45
Jaffatrevarthan: I uninstalled MaemoChron and never re-installed it after it ate all my battery very quickly19:47
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alteregoHas anyone found a maemo compatible debian repository out there yet?19:49
alteregoWell, an armel N800 debian repository.19:50
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adam2does anyone know anything about the text prediction coding?19:51
dick-richardsongnumeric on my n800 won't open xls files since the latest release...what am I missing?19:51
adam2is that proprietary or is it a maemo feature19:52
dick-richardsonopening xls files? I believe it's a gnumeric feature19:52
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disqkadam2: afaik it is proprietary19:53
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adam2disqk: thanks, that's not what i wanted to hear, but thanks19:53
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trevarth1nJaffa: yeah, me too. I like the idea, but man can that thing eat CPU.19:54
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dick-richardsonAnyone else opening xls files with their n800 and the latest firmware?19:55
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KaylaKazetrevarth1n: thanks. It is maemochron19:59
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KaylaKazeis there a decent frontend for mplayer?20:04
trevarth1naudio or video?20:04
ericzin real linux distros, there's gmplayer, but no clue if there's a port for it [doubt it]20:05
KaylaKazegmplayer is the name of the completely worthless frontend that comes with maemo mplayer but it's, as I said, completely worthless20:06
trevarth1nfor video, there is kmplayer, which is ok. But personally I like the mplayer frontend that comes with mplayer for maemo. It's very simplistic.20:06
KaylaKazetrevarth1n: Audio mostly, but video wouldn't hurt20:06
trevarth1nwell, for audio....20:06
_Monkeykagu is a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here:
trevarth1nwritten in python. :)20:07
KaylaKazethe default mplayer front end's major problem is it uses the default file/open window system which is horrible when you're dealing with large shared folders20:08
dick-richardsonI need to force an install from a repo w/o dependency do you phrase the apt-get command?20:09
trevarth1nyeah, I don't really use large folders of anything with mplayer for video. For audio, I use mplayer and kagu. Seems to work pretty well.20:09
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trevarth1ndick-richardson: I check `dpkg -h` for the syntax20:10
trevarth1nit'll be something like dpkg -i --force or something20:10
dick-richardsonthe problem with dpkg is apt-get won't even let me download the conflicting pkg20:11
KaylaKazeI wish I could get canoe to open certain files with certain programs/scripts20:11
trevarth1noh, you have to download the deb manually that way.20:11
trevarth1nI wish a lot of things about canola.20:11
dick-richardsonapt-get isn't letting me20:11
trevarth1ndick: use wget20:11
dick-richardsonI don't know the exact file name20:12
trevarth1nand google20:12
KaylaKazenot canola, canoe20:13
KaylaKazecanola is just even more worthless with shared forlders than the mplayer frontend20:13
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trevarth1nah. never noticed canoe before.20:14
KaylaKazeeven when it tries to open files though, they don't open. I've noticed the same when trying to get somehting to open from a command line: the program will start but it won't open the file told to20:16
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disqdid you try canola-mplayer and set it up to use mplayer from the configurator?20:19
KaylaKazenever saw a need to20:19
disqcanola's shared media browser is the fastest for me20:19
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trevarth1nhuh. didn't even know there was a canola-mplayer. I'm just learning all kinds of stuff today.20:20
KaylaKazethe problem with canola isn't how it plays but it won't add shared folders to it's list of local files20:20
disqof course there are some shortcuts for example holding the fullscreen button transforms the arrow touchkeys to home and end20:20
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disqlist of local files? i don't follow20:20
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KaylaKazewhen you start canola, it has local and shared sections20:21
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KaylaKazeshared is for UPnP shares20:21
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KaylaKazelocal is for files on the 770 and MC20:21
KaylaKazeyou can configure which folders it scans for "local" in the configuration20:22
KaylaKazebut when I add the mounted shares, it either ignores them or screws up 'cause it still shows my list as emptyh20:22
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KaylaKazewhat I should do is make a webpage that controls winamp and have it output a shoutcast stream so I can have full access to my mp3s from any wifi point20:24
gla55winamp webinterface exists already20:24
gla55works wonderfully from 77020:24
trevarthanor you could just install gnump3d or some similar mp3 streaming app.20:24
trevarthanI use gnump3d and like it. Has downsampling too.20:25
KaylaKazeyeah, but I've never seen one with all that much control options20:25
trevarthannah, it just hands you an mp3. The control is on the application end.20:25
infobottrevarthan meant: nah, it just hands you an m3u. The control is on the application end.20:25
KaylaKazegnump3d looks good20:26
disqKaylaKaze: did you try making the canola rescan after actually mounting the sharedir?20:26
KaylaKazedisq: yep20:27
KaylaKazeit looked like it was scanning20:27
KaylaKazetook a few minutes, then said it was done20:27
KaylaKazebut still nothing on my local files20:27
disqand the mount destination was in the dirs-to-scan thingy in webconfig, right20:27
trevarthanI could never get a single upnp file to play in canola. It could see them, but that was it. upnp is garbage without a transcoder. what do they call those? media adapters?20:27
KaylaKazeupnp worked fine for me in canola. I just couldn't find a server I liked that didn't crash all the time20:28
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: canola just play what is know, if you added support for some media and it's not aware, you have to edit gconf and it will reconsider20:28
trevarthanI'm using mythtv's. not sure if it exported my music or not thought.20:28
disqi would open a bug in, just for the sake of completeness20:28
infobottrevarthan meant: I'm using mythtv's. not sure if it exported my music or not though.20:29
disqmaybe there's a workaround etc.20:29
k-s[WORK]KaylaKaze: twonky is good20:29
k-s[WORK]infobot: mythtv upnp is crap, as is gmediaserver and ushare20:29
infobotokay, k-s[WORK]20:29
disqon windows, windows media connect works for me20:29
disqfuppes worked for me for audio but didn't use it much20:29
k-s[WORK]stupid me20:29
k-s[WORK]on windows, tversity is good enough20:29
k-s[WORK]I've mailed them the problems I found and they fixed20:30
trevarthanI tried tversity too. I couldn't get it to transcode on the fly though. garbage. all garbage.20:30
disqmost of the transcoding solutions are garbage, yes20:30
k-s[WORK]gmediaserver and ushare both use libupnp, which is buggy, we've sent some bug fixes, but don't have time to fix all20:30
KaylaKazeI liked fuppes but it always crashed20:30
k-s[WORK]trevarthan: really? it seems to use ffmpeg and does a great job20:30
k-s[WORK]KaylaKaze: which kind of crashes? I use it at home to transcode for ps320:31
KaylaKazeI'm installing gnump3d now20:31
disqand what's with the crappy interfaces :) (think tversity)20:31
k-s[WORK]I've heard that mediathomb is good, but never tried20:31
trevarthank-s[WORK]: I dunno, maybe it's because I was using it under vmware, or maybe it's because it was trying to transcode nuppelvideo. But I couldn't even get a picture out of tversity with my n800.20:33
k-s[WORK]too bad20:33
k-s[WORK]maemo's media player is horrible, maybe you should try our mplayer plugin20:33
k-s[WORK]you can define cache and other config with ~/.mplayer/config20:34
trevarthanI've become complacent with pre-transcoding my video using a slightly modified and just dumping them on my mmc card. Less hassle, and portable.20:35
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trevarthanOne day we'll all be using upnp, but I don't think that day is here yet.20:37
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KaylaKazegreat. gnump3d's indexing perl script is bad20:42
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trevarthanyou want mine? I remember I patched a few odds and ends. Only took a second...20:42
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KaylaKazehow much stuff needed changing? It's saying $file is uninitialized20:42
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trevarthanKaylaKaze: which version did you grab? I'm running 2.9.7. You're talking about gnump3d-index, right?20:44
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dick-richardsonanyone have a good maemo-mapper url?20:46
KaylaKazefoudn some web pages on it20:46
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KaylaKazeI got whatever the newest is20:46
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KaylaKazewow! some of these errors are so blatant!20:50
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KaylaKazeI don't know what this program is doing but it's using every bit of cpu it can get21:01
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KaylaKazeah... it was rescanning... now if I could just get it to run as a subdiectory of my apache server instead of as an entirely separate server, I'd be all set21:13
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alteregoAre there any binaries available for wireless-tools? I can't find them anywhere ..21:18
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alteregoThe N800 can go up to 400Mhz?21:42
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Abulafiahow do you oc the n800?21:45
gla55_i'm not aware of any tools for that21:47
alteregoAppearantly you can with CPUFreq21:49
gla55_does it work?21:49
alteregoAt least, I think you might be able to.21:49
gla55_it's in the region of things i wouldn't say you can without actually trying it out21:50
gla55_"you could use the 3d chip" too21:50
alteregoThere are issues with CPUFreq and the N800. But there was a case study using the N800 for better power management and the chip is supposed to be running at 400Mhz.21:50
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alteregoI'd love to use the video chip. But is it even wired up to the screen? :D21:50
alteregoFor instance, there's a TV Out on the chip too ..21:53
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gla55_tvout is wonderful on n9521:53
alteregoI wonder whether that has something to do with the "Nokia AV 3.5mm jack"21:53
gla55_nokia av jack is like the av jack on video ipods21:54
gla55_havent actually measured if they're totally identical21:54
Abulafiawonder if it is supposed to be the big future surprise for the n80021:54
alteregoIf there is a suprise :P21:54
alteregoThe iPhone can't do it ^_^21:54
gla55_alterego: a 3.5mm phone jack that has extra connecting area21:54
Abulafiasuprise, no suprise!21:54
Abulafiatho between video and mesh wireless....21:55
alteregogla55_, right. I get that. But is it wired up properly?! :)21:55
Abulafiaill take the wireless :-)21:55
alteregoI'd take the PowerVR accelleration21:55
gla55_beats me. would have to open up a n800 to make even guesses21:55
gla55_powervr would be really good21:55
gla55_it's really nice on e90 and n9521:55
alteregoYes, the first thing I'm gonna do when it arrives in the next few days is take the damn thing apart ^_^21:56
alteregoI've been thinking of getting an N9521:56
Abulafiabeen done21:57
gla55_the new firmware for n95 _really_ speeds up the gps fix(new fw has agps)21:57
gla55_makes it much more usable21:57
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Abulafiaah powervr. brings back such memories.21:57
Abulafiamy first 3d card was a matrox m3d. anyone remember those?21:57
gla55_sort of21:58
gla55_i had a voodoo21:58
Abulafiait was a supplemental 3d card for 2d cards21:58
gla55_played around a bit with glide too21:58
gla55_with powervr?21:58
timtimredanyone see the possible next gen nokia tablet on engadget?21:58
Abulafiabut it did transfers over the internal bus, not patch cable21:58
Abulafiait was like 1998 or so21:58
gla55_my bro had a powervr addon card(pci to overlays)21:58
gla55_not matrox but some generic brand though21:59
Abulafiasame thing21:59
Abulafianice little card21:59
Abulafiai remember i had one of those isa/pci slots, where there was room enough for one22:00
gla55_voodoos sucked in the respect that you couldnt get windowed..22:00
gla55_i had a pci dvd decoding card though that was via patch cable that DID windowed22:00
Abulafiaso i took the slot strip off the m3d and jammed it in to get an extra slot ;-)22:00
gla55_could have used a riser too22:01
Abulafiathe card was so tiny, it didnt matter22:01
Abulafiai had it paired to a 8mb millenium22:01
Abulafianow that was a nice 2d card22:01
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Luriawow, nostalgia22:05
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cy-woot flashing the latest firmware22:08
Luriabye bye apps22:08
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Luriaflashing firmware = 4 hours of bs22:09
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VeggenLuria: THat page missed Hercules :)22:09
Luriagod the package manager sucks.22:09
Luriayeah, i noticed22:09
Luriayou know, more than once in the last few years, having a pci video card around has been handy :-)22:10
gla55_some bonk stuff is good to have around22:11
Luriamost memorably when i got my first pcie motherboard, before my 7800gtx arrived22:11
Luriait was wonky tho - i think the bios kept ocing it (even tho i set 33mhz for the bus in bios)22:12
Luriamany a blue screen22:12
gla55_voodoo was fun to oc22:12
gla55_just settin env in dos22:12
Luriagood stuff22:14
Luriatakes me back to the days of aq222:15
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Luriais there a way to get a value for the current (no pun intended) voltage on the n800?22:23
Luriafor the battery22:23
alteregoShould be in the /sys/class dir somewhere.22:28
alteregoUsually under battery.22:28
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alteregoIt's relative to min_voltage and max_voltage22:28
alteregoLocated in the same directory22:29
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KaylaKazeThis gnump3d is great except downsampling gives bad audio :-(22:38
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metatronis there anything on the n800 that handles wma streams correctly?22:40
sickguyHi I'm a new N770 user, welcome myself to the channel22:40
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metatronive found that if the playlist has two stream elements, only the first plays22:40
sickguyAnyone know what's the best way to play Youtube? I followed the link but I couldn't add the bookmarklet to the Opera browser as the javascript is too long22:42
sickguythe link is at
sickguyanyone please?22:43
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cesmansickguy: perhaps uktube....22:45
sickguyuktube? is it an app for N770?22:45
cesmanI've not used it myself, but that maybe your best bet22:45
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sickguyoh I think they're talking about the apps to play youtube file, I already have mplayer22:47
sickguybut my problem is not able to save the youtube file as .flv , not playing them after saving the files22:47
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cesmansickguy: when seeking help. I suggest you learn how to ask the right question22:50
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cesmanfirst you asked about playing, then I gave a suggestion...22:50
sickguyMy question is: How do you go to a youtube page, and save the video as .flv file so that you can play it with mplayer or uktube22:51
cesmannow you have to save the file not play it....22:51
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sickguysorry for the confusion, I asked " I followed the link but I couldn't add the bookmarklet to the Opera browser as the javascript is too long"22:52
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sickguybut thanks for your suggestion anyway, now I know that's an uktube besides mplayer :)22:54
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sickguyany more suggestions? anyone playing youtube with the N770?22:59
Luriait barely plays on the n800 with the firmware update... good luck23:01
sickguyeven after saving the videos as .flv files?23:02
sickguyarrgh... I bought the N770 thinking it can play youtube.23:02
Luriano, flvs play "offline"23:02
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sickguyYes, I just want to be able to save Youtube video as .flv files and play offline, I thought it's doable23:04
KaylaKazeare you able to save the flvs in the first place?23:04
nate12o6does anyong know what the current url is for google maps on Maemo Mapper?23:04
KaylaKazeurl for what part? I got some good URLs from the ITT forum23:05
nate12o6the url that must be put in so that it can download the maps23:05
sickguyno, I can't save flvs now. that's my main problem now, i haven't tried playing flvs yet23:05
suihkulokkisickguy: or just google for "youtube downloader"23:06
Luriahave you tried uktube?23:06
nate12o6KaylaKaze do you know of any urls that work?23:07
sickguyno i haven't tried uktube or mplayer yet, cuz I still can't save FLVs from youtube23:07
nate12o6when i go to it says page not found23:07
sickguyThanks suih i will try to look it up.23:07
mazzensickguy: you could try
sickguyI heard of keepvids, but I think this link is better but I just can't get it to work.23:09
sickguyyou're just supposed to bookmark the javascript, and run it on a youtube page and it'll ask you to save the flv file23:10
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sickguybut the problem is when I try to save the javascript as bookmark, the script is too long and gets truncated so it won't work on the default opera browser in N77023:11
nate12o6has anyone tried to get the videos at to work on the 770?23:13
nate12o6by using mplayer23:13
KaylaKazeI'm trying to use that python youtube downloader but I gt a "no module named getpass" error :-(23:15
KaylaKazenate12o6: check the internettablettalk site forums. There's a thread there with tons of map links for maemo mapper23:16
nate12o6KaylaKaze i just read through abou 50 pages of maemo mapper threads.  can you direct me towards one?23:17
||cwanyone figure out offline routing for mapper yet?23:18
Luriawarez navicore (j/k)23:18
||cwnate12o6: you don't "go to" kh.... it's actualy kh1 or kh2 and so on, mapper knows this and will add it23:19
KaylaKazethread 3514 on itt23:19
lmouraKaylaKaze, what python version are you using?23:19
KaylaKaze||cw I think mine works offline for my area23:19
nate12o6KaylaKaze thanks23:20
||cwKaylaKaze: I only have a download option23:20
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nate12o6so no dice on getting the mobile version of youtube to work?23:21
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lmouraKaylaKaze, you need the python-dev package23:21
||cwnate12o6: um, v=17, not 6, i think23:21
mazzensickguy: hm... as i said above, the jslink for keepvid is shorter: javascript:document.location=''+escape(window.location); but what kind of flash player do you have installed to play youtube files on the 770?23:21
||cwnate12o6: go to and rightclick and image, properties, see what the URL is23:22
lmouraKaylaKaze, there's a section in the bottom of the page about python-dev23:22
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KaylaKazewell, I found a webpage that does the downloading so no problem23:22
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_Shurik_top of the end of the workday to ya all23:23
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lmouraKaylaKaze, ok23:23
KaylaKaze||cw: to save maps, you go into the map manager23:23
KaylaKazeyoutubed has big files :-(23:24
||cwKaylaKaze: I know, but he's having problem stealing the URL :)23:24
KaylaKazewell, that thread number I gavr has the links I use23:24
||cwit's easier for me to just steal them from google directly23:25
||cwand they do have to be updated every now and then23:25
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||cwI just wish there was a single url for the hybrid view23:26
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KaylaKazeanyone know what directory the "Documents" folder corresponds to?23:28
_Shurik_or something like that23:29
VeggenI find that directory structure quite non-logical.23:29
KaylaKazeit's not MyDocs23:29
Veggen's ~/MyDocs/.documents23:29
KaylaKazeah,. ok23:29
_Shurik_I store everything on mmc1 anyway so I don't care23:30
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KaylaKazemplayer playing a flv. yay!23:31
KaylaKazegood speed too23:31
nate12o6is there any way to have that as a plugin for minimo?23:31
||cwlike a port of mplayer-plugin?23:32
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nate12o6so we dont ahve to jump through hoops to get youtube to play23:34
Luriais there a graphical file manager for the n800?23:34
nate12o6would be nice to just be able to browse to and click the video23:34
_Shurik_youtube plays just fine in opera23:34
_Shurik_Luria: what is that?23:34
_Monkeyi guess that is a sign of good news23:34
nate12o6_Shurik_ opera on the 770?23:35
Luriai mean a replacement for the stock file manager23:35
_Shurik_yes. Xterm23:35
Luriasomething that knows how to say, copy a file23:35
KaylaKazeeeek mplayer screwed up and I can't kill it23:35
_Shurik_stock doesn't know how to copy?23:35
KaylaKazeluria: canoe should work23:35
Luriait only moves23:36
Luriakaylakaze: thank you23:36
_Shurik_you can Copy and then paste...23:36
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cbx33ping OgMaciel23:37
cbx33to get XTerm I guess I just goto the maemo site, click on term and it installs right???23:37
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_Shurik_cbx33: let me know if you find the way, I still can't for some reason :)23:38
cbx33from what I saw it adds the maemo repo23:38
cbx33and then apt-get's it23:38
cbx33am I right guys?23:38
OgMacielcbx33: pong23:38
_Shurik_I must be doing something wrong then23:38
cbx33oh and another thing....if I screw everything upo....will a reflash get it all back23:38
_Shurik_I can't get libncurses to instal23:39
cbx33OgMaciel you insatlled from the maemo repos?23:39
OgMacielcbx33: yup23:39
cbx33and they're good?23:39
* cbx33 is scared of deadening his new N80023:39
_Shurik_no worries, just buy another one :)23:40
Luriaand send me the dead one ;-)23:40
cbx33i guess a reflash will fix it23:40
timtimredand if you deaden it one question remains; will it blend?23:40
VeggenI haven23:40
Lurianope. just iphones.23:40
OgMacielcbx33: live big dude  ;)23:40
_Shurik_well, just wait for n90023:41
Veggen't heard of a software problem that couldn't be fixed with a reflash?23:41
cbx33OgMaciel dude I bnonught this23:41
cbx33loads of cool people get theirs free23:41
Veggenthe n800 is quite good in that regards, no? Quite failsave.23:41
cbx33I had to pay for mine23:41
Luriablenders make pretty soft wares.23:41
cbx33I DO NOT wanna mess up23:41
cbx33I'll install terminal now then23:41
Luriayikes lag23:42
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cbx33from the maemo site right23:42
_Shurik_cbx33: let me know23:42
_Shurik_I just didn't have enough time to mess with it23:42
Luriaa canoe is perfect23:43
disqmmm. the garage is out of free space23:43
cbx33osso xterm?23:43
Luriajust what i needed23:43
_Shurik_Luria: how come stock couldn't do copy/paste?23:43 An error occured in the logger. ERROR: could not extend relation "activity_log": No space left on device HINT: Check free disk space.23:43
disqalways fun23:43
cbx33is osso xterm the best to use?23:44
Luriashurik: i just didnt like the default move, esp across mounted volumes23:44
trevarthandisq: and that would be why I'm hosting kagu on my personal server.23:44
_Shurik_Luria: I see23:44
Luriashurik: i mean drag= move23:45
_Shurik_ah, okay23:45
Luriai also hated the fact that it used the default open dialog style ("Documents") rather than reality ("/MyDocs/.documents")23:46
_Shurik_T - 5 mins23:47
Luriaif you are using a file manager, you should be able to grasp the concept of... i dunno, files and directories?23:47
alteregoThat PowerVR chip looks funky.23:48
alterego2 million polygons a second.23:48
alteregoIt'd be nice if it worked ^_^23:49
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alteregoIt'd also be nice if the AV out worked ^_^23:49
_Shurik_what for?23:49
alteregoPlugging into a TV of course :P23:49
_Shurik_what if one doesn't own a TV?23:50
alteregoThen you use the screen on the N800 :P23:50
_Shurik_then we need TV-in23:50
Luriahas anyone gotten a bluetooth gamepad (if there is such a thing) working?23:50
_Shurik_my friend wanted exactly the same thing, I just think it's a missuse of tablet23:51
alteregoWell, there's internet streaming :P23:51
Luriai think the tablet was designed to be misused :-)23:51
_Shurik_Luria: I was wondering about this myself23:51
alteregoI'd prefer TV out over TV in23:51
alteregoThe OMAP also doesn't support TV in :P23:51
_Shurik_well, if I wanted to have a media PC I would just get a dedicated one. dunno...23:51
Luriatv out, yeah. especially with a bluetooth gamepad.23:51
Luriaoff to google.23:52
_Shurik_tablet is something you browse with while watching tv :)23:52
alteregoI think I'm going to make it my mission to hack PowerVR and TV out (if connected properly)23:52
_Shurik_usb tv out then is what we need :)23:52
alteregoWhy USB TV out? If the TV out is connected to the headphone Jack as I suspect but could be off :) Then you just need the correct drivers/software/cable.23:53
alteregoWhich is a standard Nokia cable if I'm right.23:53
*** Sulis has quit IRC23:55
alteregoThe reasoning for this suspicion is on the Nokia N800 page they state that there's an "AV 3.5mm jack" which is presumable the same as the N95 et al. So looking at the OMAP datasheet, low-and-behold there's a TV A/D output.23:56
alteregoSo, no proof :)23:56
alteregoStill worth investigation I think :)23:56
_Shurik_would be interesting to find out23:57

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