IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-07-10

Presence_I might use it for wireless site surveys though00:00
_Shurik_yeah, your idea with proxy actyally does make a lot of sence00:00
_Shurik_especially with all the public wifi places00:00
Presence_and the system can do it...just not the browser specific...00:00
_Shurik_do you run your own proxy?00:00
Presence_but if I can proxy it00:01
_Shurik_right, that's what I would want00:01
_Shurik_encrypt everything00:01
_Shurik_need to check it out00:01
Presence_+ tor when I really get pissed00:01
Presence_I need LEAP though :)00:01
Presence_The onion router00:01
pupnik_i'll look into it00:01
Presence_it splits packets between unknown and mostly unpredictable destinations00:01
disqtrevarthan: the utf8 id tag or utf8_folder_name/album.jpg?00:01
pupnik_got a link Presence_ ?00:02
Presence_for tor, sure...its part of the eff now00:02
trevarthandisq: the mp3 file containing the id3 tag, perhaps? Or where I can buy it from?00:02
pupnik_oh tor IS "the onion router" heh.  didn't know that00:02
_Shurik_paranoid much? :)00:03
Presence_its not just http, but thats its primary use00:03
suihkulokkiI thought spam and trolling was the primary use of tor00:03
* suihkulokki ducks00:03
pupnik_given european ISP's data-caching requirement, i should really be tor'ing just out of principle00:03
Presence_spamming, trolling, and hacking probably :(00:03
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disqtrevarthan: any email i can send it to?00:03
Presence_pownce might be useful for the tablet as well00:04
trevarthandisq: jesse@guardiani.us00:04
_Shurik_alright, I'm outta here00:04
_Shurik_cya all00:04
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Veggenmmmf. ,,00:05
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phaxxis there a way to mount the root filesystem of the 770 on another machine via USB, or can I only do that with the MMC card?00:10
pupnik_i haven't neard of that being tried00:10
Presence_it looks like its mmc or sd only00:10
phaxxI've gone and changed a permission on something, and now I'm getting that lovely white screen.00:10
Presence_I dont wanna think about "reflashing"00:11
Presence_that would suck00:11
phaxxit boots, and I can mount the MMC. it clicks when I press buttons, and I even get the little menu when pressing the power button00:11
phaxxbut no UI00:11
phaxxand no way of making it connect to a network so I can ssh in.00:11
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phaxxthe worst thing is, I#m abroad, in the middle of a long trip. just lucky to have access to somebody's laptop for tonight.00:12
disqtrevarthan: sending (slow upload)00:12
Presence_I wish it would auto-connect to wifi when its in range and has a profile...that would solve it00:12
phaxxmight be handy.00:13
pupnik_reflashing is pretty painless imo00:13
derfpupnik_: Your opinion is wrong.00:13
Presence_pup: but you lose everything :)00:13
unique311whats so special about wimax00:13
phaxxperhaps, but itäs the work after the reflashing I want to avoid :)00:13
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Presence_I should find a safe "flash' image00:13
phaxxI have an rsynced copy of most stuff from a few weeks ago, but it's not everzthing.00:13
Presence_you rsync over ssh or rsync to rsyncd?00:14
pupnikderf what's the main think you think should be improved in the reflashing process?00:14
phaxxover ssh.00:14
unique311will it allow me to pick up a wireless signal and move long distances without dropping the connection00:14
Presence_thats the best way00:14
* phaxx shrugs00:14
phaxxit worked.00:14
phaxxshould have done one more recently. oh well.00:14
phaxxeven having a package list from dpkg would be very helpful here.00:14
Presence_I wont get to actually play with mine for a few days00:14
derfpupnik: The amount of time it takes me to gain root and reinstall and reconfigure applications.00:15
Presence_I usually keep the packages so I know what they are :)00:15
Presence_whats the chance you could "dump" an fs to a remote box00:15
Presence_does the nokia have "dump"?00:15
pupnikit has 'dd'00:16
Presence_dd is close00:16
Presence_should work00:16
phaxxuse tar for a live szstem.00:16
Presence_tar doesnt always do the right thing00:16
Presence_even dd doesnt always do the right thing00:16
phaxxsystem, stupid german keyboard...00:16
Presence_only dump can be setup to handle a live system properly00:16
Presence_and it keeps track of your last backup :)00:17
pupniki think backing up root filesystems can only really work if you have multi-boot and mmc00:17
Presence_multiboot to the flash00:17
Presence_then use dump to mmc00:17
Presence_to do the mmc00:18
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samiam010203anyone here using pownce on the nokia 770 ?00:21
phaxxthis may be a silly question, but where can I get the flashing utility for Windows?00:21
Presence_it came on the cd with the device00:21
Presence_sam: I dont think it exists00:21
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phaxxoh. let's assume I'm 1,000 miles from the drawer where that CD is. :)00:22
samiam010203no pwonce is a website00:22
samiam010203pownce is a website00:22
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samiam010203phaxx the flasher is available on nokias site00:22
phaxxnot from the same place the OS images are, unfortunately. I'll keep looking, ta.00:22
Presence_I thought pownce was the new "digg" guy thing00:23
samiam010203it is00:23
Presence_I just mentioned it a bit ago00:23
samiam010203i am using it on the nokia 770 with the minimo browser00:23
Presence_it doesnt work?00:23
Presence_or you want to test it00:23
samiam010203but im trying for the life of me to get it to work with the opera broswer00:23
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samiam010203for some reason you cant post to it from within opera browser00:24
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pupniki like html 1.100:29
pupnikit' a bit inconsistent but it's simple00:30
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gomiamkillfill: are you still there?00:32
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koos__someone with gnome-vfs knowledge?00:43
Presence_gnome on a, that would be sloooooooow00:43
Presence_its such a pig00:44
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koos__Presence_: gnome-vfs is default installed (and only for I/O anyhow)00:44
Presence_for the n800?00:45
Presence_hmm...Ill need to check the pkg then00:45
Presence_I figured it would be a lightweight wm00:45
koos__no, but it such non-the-less :-)00:46
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infobotkoos__ meant: no, but it sucks non-the-less :-)00:46
Presence_it looks like its just a library you can develop to00:47
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koos__should have moved to curl ..00:48
Presence_Im glad Im a network guy, and not a software guy00:48
Presence_too much shit in software00:48
Presence_I mean there is a language for everything00:48
Presence_they couldnt just fix perl, or adapt c00:48
Presence_everyone has to have their own00:48
Presence_its like were in the 60s again00:48
koos__Anyhow, the Q is how i get notified about url redirection for http request (I use gnome_vfs_async_open)00:49
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koos__Presence_: because there is no open hardware :-)00:50
koos__Presence_: you would have a network card for every application ..00:50
Presence_hell its getting there00:51
Presence_with the bladeservers and QOS00:51
Presence_gots ta go...have fun all00:54
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Ginmananyone get fceu to work flawlessly? the sound on my install is screwy and its a little slow01:07
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pupnikn770 or 800?01:09
pupnikthere is a sound stuttering problem yes01:09
pupniki am hoping someday we'll see someone port the gp2x emulators to the nokia01:10
pupnikthey are faster01:10
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samiam010203ping thoughtfix02:02
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danilo_Hi, someone here had this error on "apt-get dist-upgrade" with MaemoSDK ? maemo-af-desktop_2.9.99.25-1_armel.deb - dpkg returned an error code (1)02:03
danilo_/var/lib/dpkg/ line 5: /usr/bin/update-mime-database: cannot execute binary file02:03
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danilo_(Reading database ... 17848 files and directories currently installed.)02:05
danilo_Preparing to replace maemo-af-desktop (using .../maemo-af-desktop_2.9.99.25-1_armel.deb) ...02:05
danilo_Unpacking replacement maemo-af-desktop ...02:05
danilo_/var/lib/dpkg/info/maemo-af-desktop.postrm: line 5: /usr/bin/update-mime-database: cannot execute binary file02:05
danilo_dpkg: warning - old post-removal script returned error exit status 12602:05
danilo_dpkg - trying script from the new package instead ...02:05
danilo_/var/lib/dpkg/ line 5: /usr/bin/update-mime-database: cannot execute binary file02:05
danilo_dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/maemo-af-desktop_2.9.99.25-1_armel.deb (--unpack):02:05
danilo_ subprocess new post-removal script returned error exit status 12602:05
danilo_/var/lib/dpkg/ line 5: /usr/bin/update-mime-database: cannot execute binary file02:05
danilo_dpkg: error while cleaning up:02:05
danilo_ subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 12602:05
danilo_Errors were encountered while processing:02:05
danilo_ /var/cache/apt/archives/maemo-af-desktop_2.9.99.25-1_armel.deb02:05
danilo_E: Sub-process /scratchbox/devkits/debian/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)02:05
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jpt9how's it going?02:09
* jpt9 tried maemomapper with a BT GPS.02:09
jpt9quite fun.02:09
jpt9except it was off by a couple of blocks :-)02:09
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yzf600I'm having problems installing the SDK for gregale.02:22
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danilo_What problems?02:22
yzf600I'm trying to follow the install guide on maemo.org02:22
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yzf600I installed scratchbox-core-1.0.6, libs and devkit-debian02:23
yzf600but I;ve found references to both toolchain-arm-linux and toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc02:23
yzf600do I install both of these, and do they get installed under scratchbox ?02:24
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danilo_I think so!02:24
danilo_But I'm not a expert on SDK... Its my first day....02:25
yzf600well the tutorial online doesn't match the scratchbox install commands02:25
yzf600tutorial is wanting you to run sbox-config, but scratchbox tells me that command is old and to run sb-menu02:26
yzf600sb-menu doesn't really map to well to the guide02:26
danilo_Why are you trying to use gregale?02:26
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yzf600What it basically boils down to is I can't run the " start" script because my scratchbox environment can't find it02:27
yzf600I'm using gregale because I have a 77002:27
danilo_hummm.. Its a good reason... lol02:27
danilo_I dont know man.. I'm using bora 3.2 and its working fine...02:28
danilo_all of this commands...02:28
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danilo_sb-menu, af-sb-init.sh02:28
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heinHandhelds are evil ... I can't stop playing Bejeweled :/02:31
danilo_I want risk for Maemo!!! lol lol lol. It is a evil game... lol02:32
heindanilo_: Thank god the Freeciv port wasn't updated for ITOS200702:32
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danilo_hein, We needs more games for Maemo platform.... I'm trying to port TEG (risk like's), but I'm having problem with libgnome....02:34
pupnik  there are a few Risk clones.  Good work danilo_02:35
pupnikyzf600: use the howto for 1.06 or 1.0702:35
heindanilo_: The GTK+ stuff (and the input method being tied to it) has so far scared me away from dev'ing for it too02:35
pupniksdl games are easy though02:35
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danilo_Yes. I know that port GTK+ stuffs are not so easy..... But I'm a "porting newbe". So, please, do not scare me! lol02:38
yzf600pupnik: I'm looking at the howto here:
yzf600pupnik: is that the wrong one?02:38
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pupnikthat's correct for gregale stuff, but some of the scratchbox things will be outdated02:38
yzf600right, and that's most likely the problem for me02:39
pupniki agree on the games thing danilo_ ... my works in progress are at pupnik.de02:39
yzf600I've tried to go into uncharted territory with sb-menu, but I must be screwing up something02:39
pupnikat you can get a HOWTO for newer scratchbox02:39
pupniki don't remember many details but i used sb-menu also - let me know if you have questions02:40
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danilo_pupnik, I saw your web-site yesterday. I was looking for your acmonitor02:40
pupnikah yes.  derf's - i just made it work for 77002:41
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yzf600pupnik: do you happen to know what toolchain is needed for  770 development? cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm or arm-linux2006q3?02:44
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pupniki can check what i have02:45
pupnikcs2005q3.2-glibc-arm is what i have here02:46
pupnikmight be a newer one tho02:46
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pupnik Devkits:          debian cputrans02:46
pupnik CPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-0.8.1-sb202:46
yzf600so here I think is where I get into trouble - rootstrap install02:46
pupnikbe sure your downloaded rootstrap is complete (tar tzf)02:47
yzf600I select Maemo_Dev_Platform_v2.2_i386-minimal-rootstrap.tgz02:47
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pupnikthat's the i386 cersion02:47
yzf600but I also saw Maemo_Dev_Platform_rootstrap_Nokia_Binaries_v2.2.tar.gz online02:47
pupnikif you're setting up an armel target, you need the armel binaries for your target environment02:48
yzf600so why would anyone want i386 binaries? I thought the 770 had an arm processor...02:49
pupnikyou can run maemo apps natively on a PC with i386 stuff02:50
pupniki never use it though02:50
pupniksorry i don't know the exact filename you need for the root02:50
yzf600why bother when you have a scratchbox environment?02:50
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yzf600no problem, I'll go hunt around on maemo.org02:51
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pupnikit should be in the scratchbox howto02:51
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yzf600I see 3 things - nokia_binaries, rootfs_nokia_binaries, rootstrap_nokia_binaries. Do I need all 3?02:53
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pupniki downloaded them all but i forgot which the HOWTO tells to install when02:54
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yzf600well the howto isn't so great02:57
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yzf600and it tells me to install the i386 rootstrap02:58
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yzf600So I just setup and sdk with the Maemo_Dev_Platform_rootstrap_Nokia_Binaries_v2.2.tar.gz02:59
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yzf600those tar.gz archives have a bunch of .deb files in them. How do the underlying deb files get installed? automatically by scratchbox?02:59
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pupnikthey do? i thought they'd just be a pre-installed filesystem03:00
yzf600the i386 tar.gz is a pre-installed filesystem03:01
yzf600I can see all the files when i tar -tvzf03:01
yzf600damn this is frustrating03:02
yzf600the howto link for  Maemo SDK rootstrap from Maemo downloads is broken03:02
yzf600the url for the link is this:  site:downloads/download-maemo03:02
yzf600firefox bombs on this saying it doesn't know know to handle the "site" protocol03:03
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pupnikthat's it03:05
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yzf600ok, I found that file03:06
yzf600I had to do a google search since the howto doesn't point to that file at all03:07
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yzf600pupnik: thanks for your help03:08
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yzf600well look at that - I found a TXT version of the install howto03:11
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yzf600the web page looks like it was taken straight from the text file and the formatting got all goofed up03:11
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yzf600oh man, I'm close to getting it running03:17
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yzf600the armel rootstrap image worked and " start" now runs03:18
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yzf600but I get this error: /usr/bin/ line 1: export: `:': not a valid identifier03:19
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pupnikmy is borkeded now - not sure why03:20
pupniki just run my apps without the menu-system started03:20
pupnikof course they're just games... not using the hildon input03:20
yzf600wait a minute - what exactly does the scratchbox environment buy you? Does it allow running armel binaries under my i386 host CPU?03:20
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pupnikand compile for armel03:22
yzf600ok, good03:22
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pupnikso now you can apt-get update and apt-get install packages03:22
pupnikif everything is set up right03:22
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yzf600pupnik: can you recommend one of your programs I can try to install? I can install via dpgk -i also, correct?03:24
pupnikyes, but you will have to install dependencies manually first then03:24
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pupnikum.  i stink at packaging03:26
pupniktry that one pls03:26
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yzf600will do03:27
yzf600hold on03:27
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yzf600ok, so dpkg looks to have installed techoballz03:28
pupnikdoes it show up in menu?  or can you run technoballz from the command line?03:29
yzf600executing /usr/games/technoballz, I get this: /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set03:29
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pupnikgo into sb-menu and look at the configuration for your arm target03:30
pupnikShow       Show target information03:30
yzf600compiler: cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm03:31
_Monkeycs2005q3.2-glibc-arm is what i have here03:31
pupnikDevkits:          debian cputransp03:31
yzf600arch: arm03:31
yzf600sub-arch: arm03:31
pupnikCPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-0.8.1-sb203:31
yzf600c-lib: glibc03:31
yzf600devkits: debian03:31
yzf600cpu-trans: none03:31
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pupnikwhen you install devkits, you can install multiple ones03:32
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yzf600so you think I need the cputransp kit?03:32
pupniki think you might have to set up a new target for arm, and be sure to install debian and cputransp03:32
pupnikyes to run arm binaries on a pc, you need the cputransp and the qemu-arm03:33
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pupnikand you have to have qemu installed on the host operating system03:33
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yzf600well the howto didn't mention anything about the qemu03:34
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yzf600pupnik: qemu installing on host os now03:35
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yzf600ok, so is qemu basically doing the same thing as Xephyr?03:36
pupnikqemu emulates the nokia cpu03:37
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pupnikxephyr is basically the X server03:37
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yzf600I thought scratchbox did the emulation03:38
pupnikso xephyr is the nokia x server running as a user app within your real x server03:38
pupnikscratchbox is like the glue that ties it all together03:38
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yzf600either I'm really dense, or the maemo SDK howto really sucks03:39
pupnikit took me several days to understand what was going on03:40
Radarit's only as good as those that write it03:40
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yzf600ok, new scratchbox target in the works with debian and cputrans03:41
dick-richardsonanyone familiar w/maemo mapper? I'm having a tough time finding a good map url03:41
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yzf600technoballz is working!!!03:43
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pupnikIs the mouse control drifting?  ON the real device i have some problems with the stylus / paddle03:44
yzf600I'm not sure - I don't know what I'm doing03:45
yzf600in the game that is03:45
yzf600damn, I wish I could get the menu system running03:45
pupniktry googling the error you're getting in quotes03:47
yzf600maybe I'll install the i386 maemo bootstrap as well03:48
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RossVandegrifthey everyone, wondering if something is up with the package repos?04:04
RossVandegriftFor example, this link is busted:04:04
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dick-richardsonI'm having a hell of a time finding working map url's04:07
RossVandegriftAm I just supposed to upgrade to gregale I guess?  Those packages all seem to be downloadable04:07
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RossVandegriftwell I just tried it and it seems that the answer is yes, mistral links are dead but gregale works fine to install overtop04:13
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disqlooks like maemoscrobbler support is going to make it to the next canola release, indt people responded to my feature request.04:24
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disqi also posted a diff for UKMP 1.4, adding maemoscrobbler support. it's in garage ukmp page/tracker/patches.04:24
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yzf600anyone seen this error in the SDK before? : Starting Maemo Launcher: maemo-launcherqemu: uncaught target signal04:25
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yzf600ok, I'm off04:29
yzf600thanks again pupnik_04:29
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pupnikglad to help - come back soon04:29
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yzf600I'll be back later after I've read more howtos and become totally confused04:30
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pupnikmplayer has trouble exiting cleanly for me on it2007he05:07
pupnikah there it goes05:07
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CtrlRIs there a way to restore a 770 to it's default state? No extra apps or data?05:18
danilo_ How to open pidgin under command line on N800?05:19
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disqCtrlR: reflash the os05:19
disqCtrlR: get the nokia software updater from the nokia 770 site ( somewhere) plug in the usb and flash it05:20
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killfilli still cannot use my bluetooth earphones, can i?05:27
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Trencherugh.. so burnt...05:48
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jga23is there any way to dynamically determine if the application is on a n800 vs non-maemo device?05:58
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disqyou could try reading /etc/osso_software_version06:03
disqthough not sure if it exists in older firmware06:03
rocketmanDoes anyone know of a way to exclude a directory from indexing by the metalayer-crawler on the n800? It is coming across my 80k+ MaemoMapper files and choking06:04
disqanother way is to read /proc/cpuinfo (there's a hardware line towards the end)06:04
disqrocketman: it was discussed in one of the mailing lists a few months back (maemo-users or maemo-devel, not sure) just run a search for metalayer-crawler06:05
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disqit involved editing /etc/init.d/metalayer-crawler0 and passing some arguments that specify where to search for06:06
rocketmanI found this:
disqyeah that's it06:08
rocketmanI wish he had pasted a copy of his edited script or something06:09
disqin fact i'll do it too06:09
rocketmanIt would be nice if one could exclude directories and not simply say "only search here"06:09
rocketmanI have never been a big fan of indexing programs in general06:10
rocketmanI am viewing the script in nano right now, but not sure what I need to change/add06:17
rocketmanMy Unix script-fu is decidedly limited06:17
disqhang on a sec06:18
disqhere's what i did:
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rocketmanthanks, disq, that is helpful06:25
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ericz_weird, my 770 just rebooted, no reason :/07:00
Ginmanit happens07:04
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osiris_ovi was wondering if anyone knew about abiword on the n800?07:21
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ericz_what's the command to run password safe from xterm?07:25
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trevarthandisq: milhouse: I just commited some code for Kagu that dramatically speeds up the song list and now playing screen loads and next song changing. It also reduced memory consumption a bit. Here's the commit:   and you can use this command to check it out via SVN: `svn co kagu`07:52
trevarthanThere's plenty more room for improvement where that came from too, but I'm going to move on to improving the selection interface next. It's fast enough for now.07:53
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pupnikscp keeps wavering between 80 and 220 KB/s to my mmc08:23
pupnikshow us screenshots someday trevarthan08:24
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ChannelZDoes anyone know, if I use the flasher to enable USB host mode on a 770, does that stick until I change it back, or is it only active for that boot?  (IE you run flasher, power on and hold Home, flasher finishes, then you pull the cable and it boots)09:11
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uttamhi all09:17
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uttamis it possible to run maemo on windows xp using QEMU or other emulators09:17
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c0ffeethere are vmware images available09:25
pupnikfor real work you'll need a few gigs free09:26
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uttamthanks...i will surely try that09:34
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janii seem to have really weird problem with epic and this channel, topic overflows to textinput part of the screen..10:26
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JaffaMorning, all10:42
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bedboihi there.11:20
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AD-N770good morning11:26
phaxxdoes anybody have a copy of the 12pt os2006 themes? they're not on the original site anymore, and I can't find a mirror.11:26
phaxxah, nevermind, I found them. he moved them to maemo.lancode.de11:29
Ravn1I have a couple 770's on it's way to me. And after reading a review I have a question for anoyne here who might have an answer. I see that the usb connection has host capabilities. Here in Norway we have a cdma based high speed internet avaiable thru a usb "modem" this modem works plug'n play in all major linux distributions right out of the box with wvdial (acts like a serialport modem). The modem is self powered (batterypack). Would it be possible to connect t11:29
Ravn1his modem to the 770's usb port and with wvdial let the device get online that way?11:29
VeggenRavn1: I think you'll need to provide power to the USB port of the 770 anyways?11:31
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Ravn1Veggen: Well, even so. If I get that port sorted, will the 770 be able to use a serialport modem to get online? I guess thats the way bluetooth works? Or am I totaly wrong here? (As I said I have not yet gotten the device, and my experience is with real linux)11:34
VeggenRavn1: Well. You'll definitely get it to work, but you might need to mess around with dummy connections etc. to make the device believe it's actually online ;)11:36
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Ravn1worth a try then. Fortunally the provider have a routerbox that you just power on and it then sets up a wlan where it shares the cdma connection, but thats a bit bigger box, and does not have a battery11:38
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Veggeneven though the connection is different, might help you with the fake connection type thing.11:46
Ravn1would be great since 3g/edge prices are crazy11:55
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ghi All12:55
ghelp me please install xterm into my nokia n80012:58
inzgo to with the browser13:02
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lardmanAnyone here know much about game emulators? Specifically, what kinds of audio formats do they use (with an eye to what would make a useful DSP-sink task)?13:19
lardmanIn fact not just game emulators, games too.13:19
unique311he deals with game emu's13:20
lardmanpupnik: ping13:20
unique311he's probably campaigning for ron paul...lol13:21
unique311i know what will get his attention...13:21
unique311RON PAUL SUCKS...13:21
unique311<--- prepares for shock13:22
gpdany idea what 'WPA pre-shared key' versus WPA with EAP translates to on a Linksys router - totally different it seems13:22
gpdWPA-Personal with TKIP or AES <- that is my guess13:23
unique311pre-shared is recommended...13:23
unique311AES correct13:24
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gpdWPA2, PSK and PSK2 all not supported by N800 I guess13:24
gpdthose are the other options on my router13:24
unique311using wpa213:24
unique311it supported..13:25
gpdhmm. rather stupid that it is called WPA then in the N800 menu not WPA213:25
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unique311i'm got security set to wpa2 pre-shared key only TKIP+EAS13:29
unique311my n800 connects to it...13:29
milhousewpa2 is supported, i think13:30
unique311guess it falls under wpa13:31
unique311thats the setting i just used to configure connections on the N80013:32
unique311has to be router is set for that security mode...13:32
unique311unless i just guess someone else using wpa with the same ssid name and password i'm using for my router...13:33
gpdyup - works under wpa2 - there is even a setting in the advanced pane for 'wpa2 only mode'13:35
unique311anybody seen the movie "Room 1408"13:37
unique311worth seeing?13:37
gpdI have seen the trailer...13:37
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inzX-Fade, I think your "cancel-menu" -bug is fixed in sardine14:36
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X-Fadeinz: Haven't had the time to test sardine yet.14:39
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inzX-Fade, the "bora" version of HildonWindow ( uses the "topmost" -signal to clear the timeout, but the sardine/chinook version ( uses "focus_out"14:47
inzX-Fade, and focus_out, is sent also when the menu opens (I think)14:47
X-Fadeinz: Yeah, they also had problems with clicks on a menu ending up in the application below the menu. Should be fixed now too.14:48
inzX-Fade, that sounds like a gtk, not hildon, problem14:50
inzX-Fade, but indeed, if the menu is closed on press, the release goes to whoever is underneath14:50
Komarovanyone knows how to use hcitool?14:51
Komarovwhat's the bluetooth device name it expects?14:52
Komarov(on N800)14:52
X-Fadeinz: I'll have to test it in Sardine. Did you try the boot menu with the new image yet?14:52
X-FadeAh 4.2007 is already supported..14:53
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inzX-Fade, never used it, I keep flashing my device every 1-3 days anyway =)15:01
X-FadeHehe, well system on MMC gives a really nice speedup too.15:04
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Veggenmm, btw - what's wrong with internet streams in media player, in 4.2007?15:08
Veggen(okok - I'll go read ITT too ;)15:08
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X-FadeAh crap, tried to install the real tar which failed half way. And now my apt is f*xored..15:11
X-FadeSemi installed tar which doesn't want to be removed anymore.15:11
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VeggenX-Fade: mmm, I guess you can fix it manually.15:12
VeggenJust make /bin/tar a symlink to busybox, manually.15:12
Veggenthen remove the faulty package.15:13
X-FadeVeggen: Well, that is not the problem. Apt keeps insisting on apt-get -f install..15:13
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VeggenX-Fade: hmm. Try with remaking the symlink, *then* apt-get -f install ?15:13
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X-FadeWhich fails due to the broken package not having a post-installion script.15:14
X-Fadetar works just fine btw ;)15:14
Veggenmmh, there's most often a way to fix things :)15:14
X-FadeYeah, it thinks the tar package is installed, but it isn't. So uninstalling doesn't work..15:15
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X-FadeAh, nevermind.. I broke busybox itself.. Game over..15:18
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luck^hi robtaylor16:17
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pyhimysdoes the n800 video call use some esoteric ports?16:33
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_Shurik_Ahhh, tablet users. I feel home17:50
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* _Shurik_ can't find comfortable position for Nokia's earbuds17:54
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ajturner_Shurik_: I suggest putting 1 bud in each ear17:57
_Shurik_I'm just used to Koss Earbuds17:57
_Shurik_these are redunculous17:58
suihkulokki~/last shurik18:01
suihkulokkiI was trying to find out why one bud per ear :P18:01
_Shurik_[10:54] * _Shurik_ can't find comfortable position for Nokia's earbuds18:02
_Shurik_just don't like them that much18:03
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_Shurik_although it's interesting how ear adjusts to lack of certain frequency in a while18:03
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MikhoI have a gcc/g++ related compiling question18:44
Mikhohow can I make sure all symbols I include within a particular .h header file are included into the resulting object file?18:45
dragorneh?  header files are only prototypes so the compiler knows you're calling functions w/ the proper parameters18:45
dragornif it links, then all the symbols which were used in the code were present in the objects18:46
Mikhooh, I checked the symbols with "nm main.o" and not the actual program "main"18:47
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Mikhogreat, all the callback functions can be found in the linked program. I thought the compiler was supposed to remove them from the symbol table if they aren't used anywhere (and they aren't)18:50
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neurocytehow much (if any) difference is there between debian-armel and maeomo-bora packages?18:54
neurocyteis it safe to install debian-armel stuff on bora?18:54
neurocytemost of the stuff I need is in debian armel already and I'm wondering if there is any point in rebuilding things in scratchbox18:55
_Shurik_seems like you would still need to rebuild, but I'm no expert18:56
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neurocyteI've got a bunch of stuff running already with out any rebuilds18:58
zuhI think they should work, but the dependancies might give you hell. Maemo is not Debian after all (just uses the same package management tools).18:58
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neurocyteI've avoided apt-get installing up to now, I've just unpacked stuff into a subdir19:01
zuhIf size is not an issue, you could just get the armel rootfs and run that in a chroot ;)19:02
neurocyteI was doing that already, but it's a bit of a waste of space19:02
neurocyteand it's a pain to change to a chroot just to run an tool or two19:03
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ttuttleHow's Hacker?19:05
disqcommand line stuff from debian-armel always worked fine for me, as long as I satisfied the deps (mostly fdisk and mkfs)19:08
pupnikhehe unique311 :)  noo ... lardman, not an easy task!19:14
pupniklardman: game consoles mostly use either sample playback or FM synthesis or both19:15
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lardmanpupnik: I was composing an email giving some possible targets for the DSP19:29
pupniki only remember early DSPs.  limited instruction lenghts and branching.19:29
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lardmanI'm of the opinon that it's sat there so it may as well do something (and use more power of course)19:30
pupnikregardless, you'd end up making a dsp sink for only SNES, or GBA, or Genesis, or NES  - nothing transferrable19:30
pupnikyes yes! :)19:30
lardmanyes, I assumed that would be the case19:30
pupniki haven't learned how to do profiling on the tablets yet19:31
lardmanI also imagine there's an inverse relationship between implementation difficulty and speed gains to be made19:31
lardmanWhen you say profiling, do you mean of how fast a game/emu is running?19:31
pupnikhow much time is spent on various subroutines19:31
lardmanah, I see19:32
pupnikfrom what i read gprof isn't so accurate.  i think someone built an oprof kernel for the tablet19:32
lardmanyes I saw that19:33
pupnikyou can always do it manually of course19:33
lardmanI simply assumed that if a program was running a bit slowly, then offloading some task onto the DSP may make some difference19:34
lardmanWhat would be more interesting is to see whether the dsp can be made to work faster than the ARM19:34
lardmanfor something that's slow, like jpeg processing19:34
lardmanI found that after I asked the question, thanks though19:39
pupnikyeah... the sample-playback shouldn't be impossible to do19:40
pupnikwonder how the dsp accesses main memory19:40
lardmanunless there's no way of performing sound output....19:40
pupnikfed with a fifo or dma ?19:40
lardmanpupnik: You can pass blocks of memory, or map parts of main memory19:40
lardmandma for the mapped memory (I assume)19:41
pupnik8 channels of 16-bit pcm at 22khz would be 352800 kB/s19:42
infobotpupnik meant: 8 channels of 16-bit pcm at 22khz would be 352800 B/s19:42
lardmanBut the data would be compressed presumably?19:42
* k-s[WORK] is away: lunch19:42
lardmanAnd the DSP would do the decompression19:42
lardmantrue, if you needed to pass the data back so it could be output, that would be a pita19:43
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* lardman heads home to work out why is G.711 task isn't behaving19:44
pupniki am sure it's compressed on the cartridge.  whether it stays that way in RAM i dunno19:44
pupnik  ahh the SNES format is called SPC19:45
lardmanMy thought was to remove the decompression and output step completely, but that requires the ability to output audio from the dsp19:45
lardmanhence my email19:45
lardmananyway, see you chaps tomorrow19:45
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pupnikok cheers19:45
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trevarthandisq: quick question: why is it necessary to put now_playing() and now_stopped() in Why can't those live in
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disqtrevarthan: i'm also calling now_stopped on seek and close20:04
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trevarthanok, I see. I'm going to merge your patch, but I definitely need to take care of the ISMAEMO issue first.20:06
disqokay :) btw have you tried optimizing the loading songs screen yet? it's so slow20:07
ttuttleHey, any progress on backporting the latest 2007 changes to Hacker?20:08
trevarthandisq: I optimized it last night. Is it still slow?20:08
disqto get rid of the now_stopped() call in you could add callbacks for seek and close in but i think that wouldn't be a better approach20:08
disqi didn't checkout the latest20:09
disqit's still the kagu-dist-20070709.tar.gz code here :)20:09
trevarthandisq: Yeah, check out the new version. It's much faster. Regarding, I was thinking the same thing. is sort of the abstraction layer for I'll be adding a in the near future too for win32 and non-a2dp playback on maemo/linux.20:10
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trevarthandisq: here's the commit that sped it up:
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trevarthanStarting mplayer takes some time. After that it's pretty fast. Once is working this will no longer be an issue unless you're using a2dp. Even then it can still be sped up a good bit. :)20:16
maddlerdisq! :D20:17
maddlermy favourite blogger!20:17
disqtell me about it :P20:18
maddler<advertising> I saw your wonderful blog on!</advertising>20:18
trevarthandisq: what happens if that osso call runs but maemoscrobbler isn't installed? Should I run which('maemoscrobbler') before I decide to use it?20:20
disqnothing should happen20:21
trevarthanok. no harm then. thanks.20:21
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Tu13esany thoughts between this and this ?20:22
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pupnikmmm psion netbook pros now getting cheaper.  Might be fun to try to port IT2007 to it :P.... I think people have written linux kernel drivers for it20:25
pupnikderf: do you think the acmonitor package install should add the extended backlight timeouts (via shell script?)20:30
derfI mean, it could, obviously. Uninstalling them might be trickier.20:31
disqtrevarthan: the beauty of dbus is, if the app receiving the message is not running, dbus starts it. so, i have no init.d scripts or such in the maemoscrobbler package. when needed, they're launched automatically20:32
trevarthanthat's certainly nice. I'm going to learn more about dbus. I've been hearing a lot about it recently.20:34
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disqdbus itself is not that simple (I once tried to read the docs but there are lots of them) but libosso really makes it very easy20:35
pupnikmost people aren't going to set-up the extended timeouts via shell.  i think setting them back in the removal script would be just as easy20:35
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disqi also added a "quit" dbus call, when received the daemons quit. i call that from postrm and postinst. (when upgraded, the new binaries won't run until you kill off the old ones)20:37
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MrZaiusare either the n770 or n800 capable of playing normal 350mb=1hr xvid files without transcoding?20:38
pupnikdepends on resolution20:39
MrZaiusand, if not, is there anything that warrants spending twice as much on an n800 after the price cuts?20:39
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pupnikxvid isn't a problem with mplayer, but on 770 i need to transcode to ***x240 resolution20:39
MrZaiuspupnik: something like this: VIDEO:  [XVID]  624x352  12bpp  23.976 fps  979.1 kbps (119.5 kbyte/s)20:39
MrZaiusbut they generally play without a hitch on the 800?20:40
pupnikthere are threads about higher res on the n800...20:40
MrZaiusbeen digging around and have been having a hard time finding much meaningful coverage of the difference - sorry if this is an old question20:40
pupnikuse mplayer, nokia, n800, video, frames etc as search terms20:41
pupnikmost of the discussion revolves around recent mplayer speedups and framebuffer bandwidth20:41
MrZaiusis there anything other than video playback that makes the cost difference worth while? (I'm aware of the VOIP support, but I wouldn't use it, and the radio isn't that big a deal)20:41
derfN800 has twice the RAM, twice the internal flash, and a faster processor.20:41
MrZaiusbut from a practical perspective, do the web browser and other conventional apps benefit much from it?20:42
derfWell, the RAM is a big difference just in terms of the number of things you can open up at once.20:43
derfAnd most of the applications are installed on the internal flash, so that also makes a big difference in terms of how many programs you can load on the thing.20:43
* k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back.20:43
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pupnikmy general rule of thumb is wait at least two generations before upgrading20:44
trevarthanpupnik: maybe you just need to play with an n800. :)20:44
trevarthandisq: is there documentation for the osso python module?20:49
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trevarthannm. I found it:
luck^trevarthan, there are some links here:
luck^trevarthan, pymaemo webpage has some osso-examples too20:51
disqtrevarthan: there's also
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Jaffapupnik: Psion had a Linux version for it which never made it to market. Where are you seeing them get cheaper? Although, it'd have to be damned cheap to undercut an Asus Eee21:18
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pupnikthey are still overpriced Jaffe - one on ebay for 240 euro now21:21
pupniki was using linux on the psion netbook (not pro)... fluxbox, vnc, ssh, etc21:21
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pupnikWOW i didn't know about the asus Eee21:22
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||cwMrZaius: 200Mhz is awfully slow, especialy with no FPU.  n800 is 400Mhz and has an FPU21:23
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_Shurik_n800 400?21:25
pupnik||cw: might as well quote bogomips21:27
_Shurik_I thought it was 33021:27
pupnikProcessor       : ARM926EJ-Sid(wb) rev 3 (v5l)21:27
pupnikBogoMIPS        : 125.7621:27
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pupnikN800 BogoMIPS        : 320.3721:29
||cw_Shurik_: ah, right, 320.  not sure why I thought it was double too21:29
disqmaybe because it feels like double with all the other improvements (like fpu, bigger cache, more ram, etc)21:29
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_Shurik_Eee is a freaking laptop21:32
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||cwanyone know that dekstop the Eee uses in the "easy"?
||cwexpert is certainly KDE21:32
pupniki can bet that the Eee will 2x $199 - or about 300 euro in europe21:33
JaffaStill 300EUR is a bit of a bargain21:34
||cwthat article mentions NT$10, what's NT21:34
Jaffa||cw: I guess it's something from scratch.21:34
||cwmakes me wonder if that is $199 US21:35
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pupnikok the Netbooks are museum pieces now, with this Asus Eee21:41
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pupnikthe Flybooks will have incredible price pressure21:41
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||cw is saying £199, which would be about $400 USD21:51
_Shurik_BJs are 2 bucks a piece now?21:52
_Shurik_why did I have to get married :(21:52
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mbjohnwow, a lot of people here :)22:23
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mbjohnwas wondering if someone might be able to help a new 770 user who honestly tried their best to find find their solution on the web....22:24
disqask away22:24
mbjohndisq: thanks! I just got my 770, and everything seems to be ok - I was able to connect to both my phone and the wifi network here. However, whenever I try to bring up the web browser, whether through "open new web browser window" or by going to a book mark, I get "Web - blank" at the top briefly, then it closes and takes me back to "Home". Has anyone else seen this behavior?22:26
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Jaffambjohn: hmm, are you running the latest OS 2006 release?22:27
JaffaSounds like the web browser is dying, or being killed (the latter possibly if it's out of memory)22:27
mbjohnjaffa: I believe so...22:27
mbjohner, to the latest release22:27
mbjohnversion 2.2006.39-1422:28
disqmm. never happened to me but possibly a memory issue22:28
JaffaNope, there's OS 2006 Edition version 3.2006.49-2 on
JaffaThere's also the OS 2007 Hacker Edition, but I'd get started with OS 2006 properly first.22:29
mbjohnclicking on memory, it says I only have 11% used22:29
disqi recommend you enable swap (in control panel - memory) btw, the 770's memory is really one of the two bottlenecks (the other one being the cpu)22:29
Jaffambjohn: that's talking about storage. RAM is different.22:30
mbjohndisq: cool, thanks, doing now22:30
mbjohnJaffa: ah, didn't think of that22:30
mbjohnbut I haven't really done anything else with it22:31
mbjohn(to drive up the mem usage)22:31
Jaffambjohn: Can't do any harm to upgrade, and worth doing the upgrade before you install too much.22:31
mbjohnJaffa: true...unfortunately, no windows computer :(22:31
disqthere are also linux and osx flashers available22:32
mbjohndisq: oooh, really?22:32
mbjohnI'd read of the windows one22:32
disqbut not sure about the URLs. it's probably somewhere at or tablets-dev. anybody?22:32
Jaffambjohn: both linked to from . There's also 0xFFFF which is an open source reverse engineered one (used it today to no ill-effect)22:32
Jaffadisq: they're mentioned on the front page :)22:33
mbjohnDisq, Jaffa: thank you both very much!22:33
mbjohnI'm pretty excited bout my 770 - have y'all enjoyed it?22:33
JaffaYeah, the 770 was great. N800 is good too, now.22:33
_Shurik_not me :( I went straight for n80022:34
disqJaffa: ok then :p did you check out maemoscrobbler, or do you like
mbjohnwow, it does appear that memory was an issue. I was just able to open the browser successfully. Wonder why that was right out of the box?22:34
Jaffadisq: never used last.fm22:34
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jameydoes anyone know if N800 802.11 supports APSD?22:38
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disqnot sure about apsd (just looked it up on wikipedia :p ) but it has some power saving timeouts built in, turns off parts of the radio after a few miliseconds of the last packet, etc22:40
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mbjohnok, I'm about to flash this thing - what are the chances I'm going to make it a brick? :)22:45
mbjohnI can't put down another $13922:45
disqpermanently bricking is very rare22:46
disqif something happens during flash you can always reflash it22:47
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mbjohnok, cool - I've flashed many a toy in my life, but this is by far the nicest I've had22:47
mbjohnum, and the only one I paid for22:47
mbjohnok, not true, bought the Agenda when it first came out22:48
mbjohnsweet - had no problems flashing, and had no problems with my web browser starting after that. Thanks so much for your help!22:56
* pupnik sacrifices a chicken to Nokia in prayer that the next tablet will have usable dpad and right hand side buttons22:59
pupnik<cue bongo music and chanting>23:00
Sulisyou can't use the dpad?23:04
pupniknot for fast action games23:04
Sulisdo you have massive fingers?23:04
disqalso a proper rocker key for scrolling, or even a mini 5 way joystick.23:04
derfNo, the d-pad just sucks.23:04
Suliswhy don't you get a gp2x?23:05
pupniki don't know if you could have a fast-action dpad with a central enter-key button23:05
pupnikmight be doable if resistance on the center button was high, and resistance on the outer directions was low23:05
disqi don't like gp2x because it's big, heavy, has a low res non-touch screen, and iirc it doesn't have net connectivity unless you get sdio23:06
disqit's an open source psp without the wifi.23:06
pupnikyeah and it has a 2nd ARM cpu that hardly gets used for anything, iirc23:06
pupnikthe low res isn't so bad for a gaming-only device.  But like many people, i want a universal, open-source pocket device - hence 800x480 for the browsing and my choice of nokia23:07
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Sulisi don't know if they've changed that at all...they may have gotten things using that for the graphics that it was intended23:07
pupnikthere's one SNES emu that has the sound code running on the 2nd CPU but it's not functional as of last month23:08
dragornSMP or non-smp?23:08
Sulisheh, non smp23:09
dragornlike the DS then23:09
dragornsame arm model?23:09
Sulisi dunno anything about the DS's hardware23:09
dragornwell I meant, are both CPUs the same Arm model23:09
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disqCPU: 200MHz ARM920T host, 200MHz ARM940T23:10
dragornthe DS has an arm9 and an arm723:10
Sulisah, see what you mean23:10
disqlet's steer this conversation toward powervr and it's might if nokia were to pay for the damn license.23:10
dragornhm, I don't know the difference between the 920 and 94023:11
Sulisit's might?23:11
suihkulokkione as a MMU the other doesn't23:11
megabyte405the n800 really impressed me with arm - I had never used it really before, but for such a low clock speed (probably combined with flash storage and small-memory apps) it sure outdoes my P3 700 laptop23:11
dragorndisq: from the postings on the list, it sounds like there isn't the bandwidth to the framebuffer to matter23:11
* megabyte405 now wants an arm desktop without going to britain23:11
dragornsuihkulokki: ahh, 'k23:11
dragornsuihkulokki: I assume the 920 host cpu has it and the 940 doesn't?23:12
disqmegabyte405: there are bunch of additional facilities of the n800's cpu that are not in use, so it's not the full performance23:12
Sulisan arm desktop...what a strange idea, i don't think it would be particularly good for multithreaded apps23:12
suihkulokkidragorn: most likely23:14
disqdragorn: i'm not saying run full res doom 3 on it, accelerate the 2d ui (and if there are games, run them half-res)23:14
dragorndisq: yah, i know, but check the list posts, it sounds like the hw design crippled it severely23:15
dragorni could be wrong23:15
disqthey could fix it in the wimax version, but i doubt it. we'll be lucky if this problems doesn't exist in the n900 (the next device, not the wimax-enabled n800) because imho they didn't learn much from the 770.23:17
disq(developer device program was very nice, though)23:18
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pupnikN770 is fast enough for strong bad email :P23:29
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disqbad email or bad email handling? :P23:31
pupnik  <- safe for work, not safe for sanity (flash)23:32
neurocytehow do I get my N800 to mount an ext3 SD automatically23:32
disqi hate how flash animations spike the cpu load23:32
neurocyteit mounts fine manually (after loading the modules)23:32
disqdisabling flash in opera really improves battery life23:32
disqneurocyte: add the insmod lines somewhere in init.d so they're loaded on startup23:33
disqmy suggestion is /etc/init.d/ke-recv23:34
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disqmissed my 770, i'll boot it up and play with it a while23:35
Sulishmm, why make an SD card ext3?23:37
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neurocyteSulis, why not?23:38
derfBecause FAT is god-awful?23:38
neurocytefat sucks23:38
disqi keep one card ext2 and the other fat3223:38
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disqi'm also feeling the urge to install sardine on one of the memory cards23:39
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schmofarzi have a question23:48
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alteregoThinking of ordering an N800 does it allow you to set the MAC address?23:49
schmofarzim using an n770 and im not able to install some packages23:49
schmofarzfor example cgoban, because the xlibs package is not installabla and i dont know where to get it23:50
ericzwhat's the command to run visual boy advance from xterm? (im assuming that's *the way* to run it?)23:50
disqalterego: you can "ifconfig hwaddr" but not sure if it actually registers23:50
alteregoYes, I'm reading something about it on ITT23:51
disqericz: try "vba"23:51
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ericzdisq, thanks :)23:51
gpdwhat are people using for address books and syncing? I am struggling with many revisions of vcard files23:51
alteregoHmm .. Doesn't look like anyone answered >:(23:51
ericzi think.. got to "Reading configuration file" hung for a sec, then "Killed"23:52
disqno idea, never used vba myself23:52
disqgpd: there are a few pim suites (GPE and some others) but never used them either :)23:53
gpdI need a magic vcard diff and vcard split at the moment - no signs, guess i'll have to write myself23:54
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disqthe platform's not big on pim functionality, unfortunately23:54
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alteregoWell, would someone like to try to set the HW MAC address of the wifi interface in their N800 and confirm it works?23:54
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* pupnik has no n80023:56
alteregoDoes it work on the 770?23:56
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alteregoYou don't have either?23:58
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pupnikusing the 770 right now, how would you set the mac?23:58
disqI got23:59
disqNokia-N800-26:~# ifconfig wlan0 hw ether 00:01:02:03:04:05 up23:59
disqifconfig: SIOCSIFHWADDR: Device or resource busy23:59
pupnikdoes it have iwconfig?23:59
alteregoifconfig wlan0 down; ifconfig wlan0 hw ether 00:01:02:03:04:05; ifconfig wlan0

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